IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2008-09-28

mdgthanks zap!00:00
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Stargazers^Well, can't make it work.00:26
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Stargazers^mount: mounting /dev/mmcblk0p3 on mmc1 failed00:27
Stargazers^Corrupted filesystem, uhm?00:27
qwerty12_N800if you are mounting in maemo, insmod right modules00:27
Stargazers^Let me see.00:28
qwerty12_N800(modprobe + bash-completion pwns for this)00:28
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Stargazers^Well, modprobe + tab wont work.00:29
Stargazers^IN maemo.00:29
qwerty12_N800it doesn't, you have to use insmod. my tablet  is modded :p00:29
Stargazers^So is there ext3 module in maemo?00:30
Stargazers^Hell, I'll rip that card to pc to see :D00:30
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Stargazers^Well, there seems to be linux modules etc.00:31
Stargazers^Normal debian installation at first glance loking.00:32
mdgI got MC from gregale - it works!  :)00:32
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NeoStriderhey folks00:34
Stargazers^Well, any ideas what might be wrong? it seems to try to boot from it but fails.00:34
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Stargazers^Can it be that this partition is not set as a bootable?00:34
Stargazers^It should be bootable.00:34
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Stargazers^Err... Still no success.00:42
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Stargazers^Oooh :O Now it oboted!00:57
Stargazers^Sorry, *booted.00:57
Stargazers^Oh yeah, I can almost cry for happiness to made it finally work :--D01:00
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lcukKotCzarny, crashanddie conference please01:12
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fiekiacan i overclock this thing?01:36
KotCzarnybut if you fry the device please post about it, so we will know the limits :)01:37
GeneralAntillesfiekia, not without killing it.01:38
fiekiaiphone makes me jea'ous01:38
KotCzarnyit shouldn't01:38
mavhconly do it inside a walk in freezer01:38
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KotCzarnyunless you prefer shiny to hackable01:38
mavhcis the iphone cpu faster?01:39
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KotCzarnyit has smaller screen01:39
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KotCzarny=> less to render01:39
GeneralAntillesIt doesn't actually run at 60001:39
fiekiathe size of the screen doesnt matter so much when you are comparing graphics01:40
GeneralAntillesIt matters for speed01:40
* lcuk is not jealous of an iphone01:40
GeneralAntilleslot harder to render 800x480 than 480x32001:40
lcuki stopped finger painting when i was younger ;)01:40
mavhcwe still need to optimise the video player to play iphone h264 stuff01:40
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fiekiathe biggest problem here is lack of cooperation amongst developers01:45
KotCzarnyhere == maemo ?01:45
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GeneralAntillesCompared to?01:45
fiekiaas farf as graphics go01:45
GeneralAntillesfiekia, and you're speaking as a developer?01:46
fiekiamaemo uses gtk?01:46
KotCzarnyn00b warning :>01:46
KotCzarnyfiekia, do you have nit ?01:46
KotCzarnyor planning to get one?01:46
JaffaInteresting: (I quite like the demo candy of an accelerometer responsive flame, but that's not the point)01:47
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fiekiakot,a nokia?01:47
KotCzarnynit == nokia internet tablet01:48
fiekiai have the n81001:48
KotCzarnyyes, it uses gtk201:48
lcukjaffa, whats interesting is they are small toys which draw the user in - just for 5 minutes01:48
lcuktouch me01:48
lcuk:) liqbase also has that draw01:49
KotCzarnyget yourself to code :P01:49
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Jaffalcuk: indeed - but it's interesting that the ecosystem of having micropayments for apps is getting lots of people to output the same mini apps. We don't have quite so many distractions, but I've seen a few people complain about the same thing about the App Store01:50
fiekiamy point is, to replicate iphones graphics you would have to be able to customize gtk, graphics drivers, and x01:50
fiekiaeven if you could get compiz running on here it still wouldnt be the same01:50
JaffaWe *could* customise gtk, graphcis drivers and x[sic]... or we could just get Clutter.01:51
fiekiait just turns windows into 2d grapincs  a lot of gtk work would have to be done01:51
JaffaIt's the *use* of the iPhone graphics which I think you're referring to; what's so intrinsic about it's graphical API which is superior to Gtk+/Clutter/OpenGL ES/Maemo 5 widgets?01:52
lcukit uses the powervr01:53
fiekiahow parts of an application slide in and out of view01:53
lcukfull stop, if we could get away with throwing around data that fast we would be just as jazzed up01:53
fiekiaanimations is what i mean when i said grapics01:53
KotCzarnyfiekia == shiny ui user01:53
KotCzarnynit is for hackers :>01:53
GeneralAntillesfiekia, go read up on Clutter.01:53
Jaffalcuk: TBH, I doubt it at the moment. That's why I've got higher hopes about a more customised widget set in Maemo 5.01:53
lcukfiekia, i dont think im the best person to speak to regarding sliding :) ive done it nocely already01:53
lcukand thrown it away again cos it wasnt as good as i had hoped01:54
lcuk100% jaffa01:54
lcukim salivating at the thought of that much power01:54
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lcukfrom my side i would be happy if the IVA could be opened up and purposed as a 2d blitter01:55
lcuktheres plenty of scope in this flat world for making a compelling ui01:55
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fiekiaim not a system developer, only an administrator01:55
mavhcI don't mind what UI it is, as long as it's consistant over all (most) apps01:56
KotCzarnyi like it snappy and with small memory footprint01:56
GeneralAntilleslcuk, dsp?01:56
mavhcsome apps I can drag select, some I can drag scroll01:57
lcukconsidered it gen, but it slows down the cpu when its running01:57
GeneralAntillesUse a different kernel.01:57
lcukand the amount of trouble ive seen lardman have makes me wanna steer clear for now01:57
Jaffamavhc: it looks like all the built-in apps, and any which want good community ratings, will be consistent with drag scrolling in Maemo 5.01:57
lcukunless something fires my imagination ill have to make do with cpu01:57
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mavhchow do you do drag scroll yet stop accidentally clicking when you want to drag?01:59
Jaffamavhc: I dunno, let's find out in November ;-)01:59
mavhcand what happens to drag for multiple select? that's kinda handy02:00
Jaffamavhc: I dunno, let's find out in November.02:00
* Jaffa can imagine a quick double tap & drag to mean 'drag & select'02:00
robinkMaemo 5 is due out in november?02:00
JaffaBut then you've got to distinguish that from a tap, and a double-tap.02:00
Jaffarobink: first alpha SDK is; how much of the UI framework'll be there, I dunno/can't remember02:01
robinkJaffa: Ahh.02:01
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lardman|awaylcuk: dsp's not that bad02:04
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lcukcool lardman  :)02:04
lardmanhard to start from scratch, ok once that bit is done, etc02:05
* Jaffa should bed.02:06
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robinkWoo Canola2 beta10 and lightmediascanner0-ogg are in extras-devel.02:08
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lcukheh - its the same as anythin si02:08
lcukive had my head inside some libraries i dare not think about again02:08
robinkHow long before it'll be in extras I wonder02:08
lardmanlcuk: true :)02:12
lardmanbed time for me, see you chaps tomorrow02:12
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JaffaRight. *Now* I bed.02:35
Stargazers^Hi, anyone of you used deblet? Noticed any sound prblems?02:38
Stargazers^I mean, when I play mp3 files there is some strange noise with music?02:38
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penguinbait_609just burned a dvd from my 81002:54
Stargazers^How you plugged device?02:55
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Stargazers^Is there normal USB on n810?02:55
penguinbait_609I use the cable on the 810 with a female gender bender02:56
Stargazers^Btw, penguinbait_609 have you ever installed deblet?02:56
penguinbait_609I can just plug in USB devices directly02:56
Stargazers^Have you noticed any sound problems?02:56
penguinbait_609not yet02:56
Stargazers^Ok, sounds good.02:56
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penguinbait_609been meaning to but just busy02:56
Stargazers^I just installed it.02:57
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Stargazers^But, well. Some sound problems.02:57
penguinbaitnetworking working out of the box now?02:57
penguinbaitIs the sound working yet, last I knew there was no sound?02:58
penguinbaitI have not played in a while though02:58
Stargazers^Well, it works but there is some strange noise in audio.02:58
Stargazers^It plays and I can hear sound.02:59
Stargazers^But it "lags".02:59
Stargazers^Or make stupid noise behing id02:59
Stargazers^*behind song02:59
GeneralAntillesDeblet really isn't meant for media.03:01
Stargazers^Well, at least it seems so. Well, that is not a problem, but it would be nice feature.03:02
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Stargazers^But, now food and then sleep.03:04
Stargazers^Good night!03:04
Stargazers^o/ ->03:04
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KotCzarny  :>03:44
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vdepizzolHello. I tried to execute a dist-upgrade in my nokia n810 (now I know, I shouldn't do that), and during the installing, the screen got blank.. and now I can't power it on anymore. It shows up the nokia logo for some seconds and than turn off. How can I reflash it?04:32
infobotfrom memory, flashing is
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vdepizzolKotCzarny: thank you04:44
KotCzarnythank the author of the page04:44
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dick-richardsonI'm using grandcentral and can't press 1 to accept the call on my n810...any suggestions?05:33
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praki've noticed that there is a map application written by Wayfinder Systems on os2008 on nokia n810. however, the license for it has expired. What would you recommend in terms of map application to get it working with the built-in gps on the n810?06:35
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GeneralAntillesMaemo Mapper06:36
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nikosapihey can someone take a look at this:
nikosapiI'm getting a bunch of "FAT: Directory bread(block 3972991) failed ... attempt to access beyond end of device" in my dmesg07:12
nikosapihere's my dmesg:
GeneralAntillesUm, is your partition table screwed?07:13
nikosapiit looks like it07:13
KotCzarnyrepartition first07:13
nikosapican I safely do that on the n810 itself?07:13
KotCzarnysure, backup what's left first07:13
nikosapiheh, ok :)07:14
KotCzarnyalthough it's easier via usb07:14
nikosapioh, ok. I'll that then07:14
nikosapiI'll do*07:14
KotCzarnyany lin/win partition program will do07:14
KotCzarnymac too07:14
nikosapiI'll just use good old cfdisk :)07:15
nikosapihuh, "Cannot find a partition table on the disk"07:16
KotCzarnystart with zero partition07:17
nikosapioh, I have /dev/sdc and /dev/sdc1, sdc1 has a partition table... is that right? O_o07:17
KotCzarnyprobably not07:18
nikosapihow the hell did this happen? :P07:18
KotCzarnymaybe some kind of sectors hiding?07:18
KotCzarnyand how come you have sdc107:19
KotCzarnyif sdc doesn't have partition table?07:19
nikosapino idea07:19
nikosapicrap, now it won't boot :P07:22
nikosapiI don't really care I had just reflashed it anyway07:23
KotCzarnywhat have you done to it?07:23
* nikosapi blames KotCzarny ;D07:23
KotCzarnysure, but what have you done :)07:24
nikosapiI just repartitioned and reformted07:25
nikosapialthough, I am quite sleepy07:25
KotCzarnyunless you had it setup to boot from sd07:25
KotCzarnyit shouldn't matter :)07:25
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* nikosapi admits defeat and reflashes...07:28
nikosapihey, how come on the n810 the internal memory gets mounted on /media/mmc2?07:31
nikosapiinstead of mmc107:32
Getkeysmmc1 is the minisd slot07:32
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nikosapi/dev/mmcblk0 is the internal memory...07:33
nikosapi/dev/mmcblk1 is the minisd07:33
KotCzarnybut mount on mmc2 and mmc107:34
Kegetysthere's two internal memories07:34
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KotCzarnydon't ask me why internal memory (internal slot on n800) mount on mmc207:34
nikosapiSo why mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 on mmc2 and /dev/mmcblk1p1 on mmc1? It seems ... backwards :P07:35
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prakis maemo based on deb or rpm?07:35
Kegetyscould be just an engineering thing, maybe they wired one of the mmc connectors to the now-soldered memory without paying attention to how it is mapped in software side07:36
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KotCzarnymore likely they started with mmc2 being used for something07:36
KotCzarnyand then there was no going back to normal07:37
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praki'm having some trouble installing maemo mapper due to the dependencies; would the easiest way involve adding the repo to the application manager?07:41
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KotCzarnyclicking install on maemo.org07:41
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GeneralAntillesnikosapi, because of the 770.07:43
GeneralAntillesKegetys, no, that makes no sense. :P07:43
nikosapiGeneralAntilles: heh, how?07:43
GeneralAntillesIt only had one slot, the external slot and it was mmc1.07:44
nikosapiah, that makes sense!07:44
GeneralAntillesNot the most logical thing in the world, but such is the way with legacy issues. ;)07:46
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nikosapihuh, now check this out:
nikosapiis it just me or are the sizes switched?07:51
nikosapiI have a 4GB sd card in there07:51
KotCzarnyinternal at mmc207:51
KotCzarnyeverything as expected07:51
nikosapilook: 254     0    3996160 mmcblk0, which corresponds to: /dev/mmcblk0p1   195605607:52
KotCzarnysee above07:52
nikosapiright, but why does /proc/partitions list mmcblk0p1 as having 3992064 blocks?07:53
nikosapiisn't that the internal card?07:53
KotCzarnydon't know, as long internal is at mmc2, right?07:54
prakwould the easiest way of installing maemo mapper be going on maemo's website and download the .install file?07:54
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KotCzarnyanother easy way is enabling extras and installing via app-man07:55
GeneralAntillesprak, just pull it from Chinook Extras.07:55
nikosapiKotCzarny: hmm, lemme try something...07:55
prakChinook Extras?07:55
prakhow would i set that up?07:55
KotCzarnyniko: eject card and reboot?07:55
prakmy package manager isn't set up properly to install from chinook extra07:55
KotCzarnyprak: it's already set up probably, you need to uncheck the 'disable' box07:55
praki've opened the .install file now and chinook extras is added to the repo07:56
nikosapiI'm gunna see what happens when I fill up the internal storage07:57
KotCzarnyif you repartitioned/reformatted it right07:57
nikosapiI hope so07:57
nikosapijeez, the internal flash is slow08:00
KotCzarnyn800 > n81008:00
nikosapinah, keyboards ftw!08:00
* KotCzarny has bt kb08:01
nikosapigps is fun too, although I find the camera useless08:02
KotCzarnyat least on n800 you can turn it to the other side08:02
KotCzarnybut i agree, a little useless08:02
nikosapimeh, I'm lucky I even got an n810, these things are hard to come by08:03
nikosapiI had to wait a month before it shipped08:03
KotCzarnyisn't your ip from nj ?08:04
nikosapihehe, no that's my server08:04
nikosapiI live in Quebec08:04
KotCzarnyyou could have get it from ebay.com08:05
nikosapinah, I wanted a new one08:05
nikosapicall me crazy but I like new things :P08:05
nikosapialso, I don't really trust ebay for expensive stuff08:06
KotCzarnyoh well08:06
nikosapithe important thing is that I'm quite happy with what I've got08:06
KotCzarnyyeah, they are likeable08:07
nikosapihey, any mobile device with python on it is awesome by me :D08:07
KotCzarnyfor me rule is having sshd08:08
nikosapimy archos has sshd on it and I haven't used it in months...08:09
nikosapi600MB to go!08:13
nikosapicool, it worked, no errors08:18
KotCzarnyanother happy customer08:18
KotCzarnyanyone knows if nokia know about that partition problem?08:19
KotCzarnyand if they are going to do anything about it?08:19
nikosapiI read a bug report about a similar problem08:19
nikosapithe funny thing is that I didn't have any issues for the 3-4 months that I've had it08:20
nikosapibut I think it's because I accidentally filled the disk with podcasts08:20
GeneralAntillesIs this the built-in 2GB?08:21
* GeneralAntilles wasn't paying attention.08:21
nikosapithat must of triggered the error. GeneralAntilles: yep08:21
GeneralAntillesOh, yeah.08:21
GeneralAntillesIt was a factory error08:21
GeneralAntillesFixed long ago.08:21
GeneralAntillesLike, back in January.08:21
nikosapithen I got an oldie :P08:21
KotCzarnybut he got his n810 NEW08:21
nikosapihey it takes a while to ship from Finland :P08:22
KotCzarny8 months?08:22
KotCzarnynot true08:22
GeneralAntillesStock usually doesn't move instantly.08:22
NaviThey would if they used my magic.08:25
GeneralAntillesThat shit's expensive, though.08:26
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nikosapithanks a lot for the the help guys08:32
* nikosapi goes to sleep08:32
KotCzarnygo go08:32
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GeneralAntillesHey, RST38h.08:35
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RST38hmoo, general09:38
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zapahem... anybody knows what I must do to make pygtk work in scratchbox?10:36
KotCzarnywhat is the error?10:36
zapI see that python2.5-gtk2 is installed by default, but "import gtk" will throw an exception10:36
zapsays "no module named gtk"10:36
KotCzarnytry import gtk2 ?10:36
zapsame ass10:37
zapimport gtk works on tablet10:37
KotCzarnycheck paths?10:37
zapbut not on scratchbox10:37
zapwell, it's the same package both on tablet and in scratchbox10:37
KotCzarnycan python list what it finds and where?10:37
zapno idea :)10:37
KotCzarnyrun via strace ?10:37
zapusually it finds its guts automagically10:37
zapaha, good idea10:37
melmothimport gtk should work on scratchbox10:38
melmothzap: up to date diablo sdk ?10:39
zapit looks for its guts under /scratchbox/tools/10:39
zapmelmoth: well, its diablo SDK10:39
zapdunno how to check if it's up to date10:39
KotCzarnyzap: apt-get upgrade ?10:39
zapI'll have to, but its strange10:39
KotCzarnyor update10:39
zap58Mb to download10:39
zapoh my :)10:40
KotCzarnybackup first10:40
zapI'm an adventurous person, and lazy10:40
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KotCzarnyme too10:40
zapI'll fix it manually, if anything goes wrong ;)10:40
KotCzarnyi'm still using chinook on nit and sb10:40
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zaphehe, after upgrade same thing10:48
KotCzarnydoes python allow for include paths?10:49
zapaha, found whats the problem10:50
zaplooks like I have a old maemo-tools tarball unpacked in my rootfs10:50
zapit contains python2.310:50
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liriI'll be in Berlin at the 5th through the 7th of October10:56
liriany interesting events?10:57
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zapaha, it should be related to PYTHONPATH not including /usr/lib/python2.310:58
liriI mean like interesting linux confs :)10:58
liriactually I'll be at work all day so that only leaves the evening...10:58
prakwhat calendar software would you recommend to sync with google calendar?10:58
zapfinally got it... 'python' is a i386 app, and my env is ARM... looks like python development must be done under i38611:00
liriprak: there's mcalendar though it needs some more work11:00
KotCzarnyjust install armel one?11:00
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KotCzarnyisn't the idea behind sb + qemu that you run armel binaries?11:01
zapi386 env is recommended everywhere11:02
zaparm emulation is incomplete, alas (arm kernel has some syscalls missing on x86)11:03
KotCzarnynaver saw any of those recommendations11:03
KotCzarnyzap, get newer qemu11:03
zapI remember reading this somewhere11:03
zapits not about qemu, it's about arm and x86 kernel differences11:03
KotCzarnyit's all about qemu11:03
zapqemu just redirects kernel syscalls to host kernel11:03
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zapand host kernel is x86, but tries to mimic an arm kernel11:04
KotCzarnyfor me upgrading qemu helped to get rid of some of those missing syscalls11:04
zapthe qemu from scratchbox?11:05
KotCzarnysb1 to be exact11:05
prakanything else other than mcalendar?11:06
zapKotCzarny: have you tried to run some more or less complex gtk app under newer qemu? They usually work, but tend to crash unexpectedly11:06
KotCzarnyzap: nothing graphical, because i test my bins on n800 (via sshfs)11:07
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matahariyesterday i cloned my n810 to my SD card, using the howto i got here....11:08
matahariBUT there are some issues: my SD Card is 4GB. I partitioned it to use 500 MB as FAT, 500MB as swap and the rest should be ext211:09
GeneralAntilles500MB swap? :\11:09
mataharibut when i boot from sd, and i enter "df -h" 1) it shows me that /dev/mmcblk1p2 is only 4MB in size11:09
matahariand strangely it uses the internal card to boot11:10
matahari(seems so)11:10
zap500Mb looks like a bit of overkill :)11:10
KotCzarnythen you did something wrong11:10
zapgreedy you :)11:10
mataharireally strange11:10
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mataharii did everything like in the howto, i just exchanged mmcblk0 with mmcblk111:10
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GeneralAntilleszap, 62.5MB? :P11:10
GeneralAntillesmatahari, you entered the wrong numbers in sfdisk.11:11
zapGeneralAntilles: 256 max should be usable11:11
GeneralAntilleszap, Mb == megabit, MB == megabyte11:11
matahariGeneralAntilles: but why is booting from SD possible?11:11
KotCzarnywhy not?11:11
matahariit is not booting from internal sd, but it says it's booting from internal sd11:12
zapGeneralAntilles: in this case, mibibytes11:12
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zapsorry, Mebibyte %-O11:12
matahariokay, so i should clone again?11:12
GeneralAntillesMost retarded name ever.11:12
KotCzarnymatahari: check partitions layout first11:12
GeneralAntillesWhoever thought that bit of nonsense up needs to be slaughtered.11:12
mataharisfdisk -l says the following:11:13
zap1MiB = 2^10KiB = 2^20 bytes :0-]11:13
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KotCzarnysidenote: fix your internal partition layout11:15
KotCzarnyor expect vfat corruption11:16
KotCzarnysooner or later11:16
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KotCzarny100% guaranteed11:16
matahariKotCzarny: there are errors in the internal layout?11:16
KotCzarnycheck the numbers11:16
KotCzarnyDisk /dev/mmcblk0: 61440 cylinders11:16
KotCzarny /dev/mmcblk0p1          0+  6271911:16
KotCzarnyfactory error11:16
matahariso, repartitioning should work?11:17
KotCzarnyas for the other card, remove that fourth partition11:17
KotCzarnyto remove confusion11:17
mataharihow can i remove it with sfdisk?11:17
KotCzarnysfdisk --help ?11:18
KotCzarnyi'm not that intimate with sfdisk11:18
qwerty12_N800sfdisk is retarded.  parted in extras would  be nice.11:18
KotCzarnyqwerty12: sfdisk is the tool included in busybox11:19
mataharior cfdisk would be nice11:19
KotCzarnydoes it's work11:19
KotCzarnyand can be scripted11:19
qwerty12_N800meh, makes no difference to me, still is an odd pos11:19
qwerty12_N800matahari: Stskeeps has cfdisk11:19
matahariokay, back to my sd problem11:20
mataharii will repartition and clone it again11:21
mataharihow big shall the swap partition be max?11:21
KotCzarnynah, try just rebooting11:21
KotCzarnyshouldn't it be 'dependencies' ?11:21
mataharijust rebooting?11:21
KotCzarnyyup 'e'11:22
KotCzarnymatahari: yup11:22
qwerty12_N800KotCzarny: maybe, but i don't think he would be keen on rewriting every link and his scripts ;)11:22
KotCzarnyqwerty: lazy!11:22
KotCzarnyapparently it's brit version11:23
KotCzarnyus version uses 'a'11:23
KotCzarnystupid americans11:23
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matahariokay, rebooted11:24
KotCzarnyhow's the df?11:24
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KotCzarnyi think you can ignore that first line11:27
KotCzarnyit's initfs11:27
KotCzarnyand your / is on #11:28
KotCzarny /dev/mmcblk0p2          645.9M    263.5M    349.6M  43% /11:28
mataharithat means my / is on the internal storage card?11:28
matahariwhy that???? i didn't want that11:28
mataharii wanted that everything runs from the external card, and is not touching the internal card...11:28
mataharii think i missed something....11:29
KotCzarnyunless it's just lying11:29
KotCzarnybut numbers are consistent with your earlier partition table i think11:30
mataharithe funny thing is that there is no partition mmcblk0p2!11:31
mataharimmcblk0 has only one partition11:31
KotCzarnymy question is where did it found that 600+mb partition11:32
mataharimy question too....11:33
matahariit's all extremely strange11:33
KotCzarnysome defaults in the cloning script?11:33
mataharibut i did it exactly using the howto....11:33
KotCzarnyyou didn't adapted to your partition layout?11:33
KotCzarnyie. creating big partition11:33
KotCzarnybut small filesystem on it11:34
KotCzarnyit should be 3+ gigs, right?11:34
mataharii adapted it11:35
KotCzarnyanother idea is that you cloned to internal partition11:35
mataharii used for p1: 1,15000,6    p2: 15001, 100000,82  p3: 115001, ,8311:35
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KotCzarnyi assume you don't have any useful data on sd int/ext, right?11:36
KotCzarnytry deleting internal partitions, and using only  blk1 ones when cloning11:37
mataharisorry, i don't understand. how do you mean?11:37
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KotCzarnydo over11:37
KotCzarnychecking what and where11:38
KotCzarnyand you don't need p311:38
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matahariso you mean i shall delete all partitions on int and ext?11:39
matahariand then make a new part table?11:40
KotCzarnyto be free of confusion11:40
KotCzarnybecause apparently at some point you messed blk0 and blk111:40
KotCzarnybut it's just my guess11:40
matahariand i shall not create a swap parititon?11:40
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KotCzarnyyou can create it later11:41
KotCzarnyor just use swapfile11:41
matahariwill take some time11:41
RST38hThe US Army will have to pay $25,000 for each weapon, plus $25 for each programmable 25mm round.11:41
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RST38hThis is for a MACHINE GUN.11:42
GeneralAntillesAssault rifle. :P11:42
RST38hOk, assault rifle.11:42
GeneralAntillesBut they're so awesome.11:42
KotCzarnydeficit? what deficit11:42
RST38hNot when they are paid off from my taxes11:42
KotCzarnywe've got guns11:42
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* qwerty12_N800 would ask for a weapon from them but when they saw me, i'd be the target :p11:43
KotCzarnywhat can you do?11:43
RST38hNot pay taxes?11:43
KotCzarnythey say irs is worse than army11:43
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KotCzarnynot to mention there's no use in keeping money11:45
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prakdoes anyone know if gpecalendar has been made to sync to google calendar on a n810?11:49
qwerty12_N800smthing like that anyway11:50
prakis erming another software?11:50
qwerty12_N800yes. it's in extras.11:51
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* qwerty12_N800 makes a note to remember to delete userport driver before installing vista11:59
KotCzarnybetter delete whole vista12:00
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qwerty12_N800nah, i don't have an xp mce disk that will accept my hp oem key12:00
KotCzarnydownload one?12:00
melmothseen ajf12:01
qwerty12_N800can't be arsed in all honesty to do so12:01
melmothhow does the 'seen' bot command works again ?12:01
qwerty12_N800~seen  ajf12:01
infoboti haven't seen 'ajf', qwerty12_N80012:01
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matahariKotCzarny: i think i messed everything up again12:28
mataharimmcblk0 = mmc2 and mmcblk1 = mmc1?12:28
mataharinow it won't boot from sd anymore12:29
mataharimaybe some bootmenu setting is wrong...12:29
KotCzarnywell, maybe12:29
KotCzarnytry doing as i suggested12:29
KotCzarnyto remove all partitions on internal sd12:29
mataharibut the default file should be fine as i read12:29
KotCzarnyand trying all boot options12:29
mataharii removed all partitions on int an ext and created new partitions12:30
KotCzarnyand it didn't boot no matter what mmc you choose?12:30
matahariwell, didn't tried the internal12:30
mataharione sec12:30
matahariinternal doesn't work too12:32
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mataharithe strange thing is that in bootmenu external = mmc2 and internal = immc212:34
KotCzarnybootmenu is configurable12:34
lukegeehi there, question: I'm going to buy a nokia n810. my question is what irc client do you advise me12:35
KotCzarnylukegee: x-chat, pidgin, epic, irsii, whatever you like12:35
qwerty12lukegee, what client are you using now?12:36
lukegeehm I would prefer xchat, but how does ist look on the 800x400 display? isn't it overkill?12:36
lukegeeqwerty12, xchat12:36
matahariKotCzarny: i will configure bootmenu again and try again12:36
qwerty12lukegee, works perfectly on N800 even12:36
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KotCzarnylukegee, make your window 800x480 then and see12:36
KotCzarnymore like 700x400 though12:37
qwerty12lukegee, &
KotCzarnyqwerty, isn't it some old version?12:37
lukegeehm ok I think that would be ok12:38
qwerty12KotCzarny, xchat for chinook/diablo is the same in all honesty12:38
lukegeeand how does software downloads work? afaik maemo uses apt-get, not?12:39
lukegee(sry, for my probably bad english ;) )12:39
KotCzarnythere is graphical app man12:39
qwerty12lukegee, yep, apt-get & dpkg with a front end12:39
lukegeeok, nice12:39
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KotCzarnyqwerty: having fun?12:55
qwerty12KotCzarny, of course :P12:55
lirimy country isn't exactly in a square shape and I wanted to get all of it but there are many dead areas (ocean) so I'm downloading maps in chunks of longs' and latit', maemo mapper would be able to manage that, right?13:01
KotCzarnymanage what?13:01
lirithe navigation13:03
liriI mean, it's just pictures so I'm hoping it wouldn't have a problem13:03
KotCzarnyyou are talking about maps or navigation now?13:03
liriuhh.. didn't realize it's not the same13:03
liriwell, maps I think13:04
KotCzarnymaps are bitmaps usually13:04
KotCzarnynavigation uses vectorized paths13:04
liriI'm doing the download with winmapper, it's easier for me because there are many "squares"13:04
KotCzarnyunless i'm missing something13:04
liriso to do navigation I also need to download "route" for the same long/lat?13:04
KotCzarnyprobably.. unless it's included13:05
KotCzarnyyou may try testing it on something small13:05
liriyeah that's what I'm going to do13:07
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* lcuk smiles13:16
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matanliri: Are you talking about Israel?13:32
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lirimatan: hey matan, yeah.13:33
lirimatan: did you just get all of israel in one chunk of long/lat?13:33
matanliri: Please try freemap-il. I added it to extras-devel repo yesterday.13:34
lirimatan: is that the roadmap_editor version of
lirimatan: we already got that working with your binaries13:36
matanliri: Then what advantage does maemo mapper have?13:37
lirimatan: I think using maemo mapper in this case is better though cause google got everything mapped out already and the maps are MUCH cleaner to understand13:37
lirimatan: did you trying using maemo mapper with Israeli maps for navigation?13:38
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matanI don't think it will work. maemo mapper routing uses a script on gnuite's site. This will need to be changed.13:45
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* lcuk lurks14:19
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mataharii messed things up with my n810 again. I cloned using the howto provided in the wiki (adapting them to the external SD). i documented all steps here: . Now my n810 hangs on booting from SD showing only the NOKIA screen with the progress bar....14:37
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matahariKotCzarny: could you please take a look?14:48
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AStormseems like modest from diablo can't read utf8 subjects15:32
AStormthat means, I get ?utf-8?...15:33
AStormand undecoded quoted printable15:34
AStormor maybe linux bugzilla is sending these wrong...15:35
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nikosapiIs there a way to access the root parition of an n810 that doesn't boot all the way?15:51
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AStormnikosapi: yes, by modifying initfs15:58
AStormor changing startup scripts15:58
nikosapican I do that without having to reflash?15:59
AStormyou can flash partially, e.g. just initfs15:59
nikosapioh really? :D16:00
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AStormwhat's the recommended way of getting root on diablo?16:01
nikosapiI think it's to install the rootsh package available in the extras repo16:01
nikosapi(you have to enable it first)16:02
nikosapithen you can run rootsh or su gainroot16:02
AStormok, worked well16:04
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mavhchas anyone run any of the google mobile apps on an n810?16:20
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johnxmavhc, you mean with palmOS emulation?16:22
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StsN800lo johnx16:24
AStormhmm, is there a way to display alt/title tag with maemo-browser?16:24
johnxlo StsN800. how goes your adventure?16:24
StsN800was quite good, was nice to get away to recharge a bit16:25
StsN800stepped off plane 20 min ago16:25
mavhcjohnx: suppose it's either that or java if that works16:25
johnxStsN800, well, I have a setup that I'm willing to call "good enough" for matchbox-keyboard16:26
StsN800sawfish + lxde?16:27
johnxsawfish+anything would be fine I'm sure16:27
StsN800what quirks then?16:27
johnxyou have to move or remaximize windows after you pull up the keyboard16:28
johnxI want to get something out now that's an improvement on the current situation, then I'll look at scripting movement of the windows and remaximizing16:28
johnxI *know* that I can do what I'm thinking of with's just a matter of figuring it out16:29
AStormjohnx, mine will be better.. I'll try to get awesome-3 to work16:30
johnxAStorm, what are you working on?16:30
AStormdo we have xcb-enabled packages?16:30
StsN800seems that my apt installer got received well so i'll push out a new installer soon16:31
AStorm(cairo to be exact)16:31
johnxAStorm, if debian has them, we do :)16:32
johnxAStorm, coding a new keyboard or what?16:32
StsN800and my friend got his 770 so we'll make a minimal one for it16:32
AStormjohnx, problem, debian doesn't have them16:33
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AStormit's a compile option and few added deps away16:33
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johnxAStorm, well, we can make a new package and put it in Stskeeps repo I guess16:33
AStormjohnx, awesome is a wm :> not sure if its mouse support is good enough16:33
johnxAStorm, aaah16:33
johnxAStorm, well, this is debian, we have room for lots of desktops...but I'll keep going with my project too :)16:34
AStormotoh, I can finish mine wm... which uses pure gtk... but is in python, not too tablet-friendly16:34
AStorm*my even16:35
StsN800my next steps is apt repo mirroring, signing and uploading packages from maintainers16:35
StsN800.. and look at qoles dm-loop for deblet-in-a-file, and b-mans cdeb216:39
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RST38h~curse MIPS instruction set for not providing in-opcode shifts, 32bit immediates, register+register addressation, stack operations, and just being plain stupid16:53
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, MIPS instruction set for not providing in-opcode shifts, 32bit immediates, register+register addressation, stack operations, and just being plain stupid !16:53
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johnxRST38h, too RISCy?16:54
johnxRST38h, actually, you've worked with ARM, MIPS and x86 right?...which is your favorite (or least hated)?16:55
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RST38hjohnx: PDP1116:58
johnxRST38h, really, so when's the VGBA port to PDP11 gonna be finished? :P16:59
RST38hSeriously, ARM is the most reasonable one, out of the three listed16:59
RST38hjohnx: When you provide me with a 2GHz 32bit PDP11 =)16:59
RST38hHave I mentioned superscalar? =)17:00
johnxhey, if it can run Unix I don't see why it couldn't play video games. Just optimize more! *cracks the whip*17:00
RST38hZ80 can run Unix.17:01
RST38hDoes not mean a thing =)17:01
johnxyeah, forgot the </sarcasm>17:01
johnxI assumed it was implied :P17:01
RST38hCanon G10 high-ISO images are in - not as bad as expected17:01
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johnxanyways, I tried vgba today. Metroid is playable now, but not quite full speed. I'll probably be perfectly happy playing turn based RPGs though, so I'm happy17:02
RST38hI suggest avoiding Nintendo's own games - they use too many features, too actively17:03
johnxaaah, darn17:03
RST38hF-Zero should be ok though17:03
johnx*sniff* but I want metroid...*sniff*17:03
RST38hGet the real thing or suffer =)17:05
RST38hNES or GB version will also work, pretty well on appropriate emulators17:05
johnxI'll get a pandora :)17:05
johnxwhy settle for finesse when you can use brute force? :D17:06
RST38hmy guess is, you will not see Pandora17:06
RST38hor, if you do, not for long17:06
johnxnot for long?17:06
johnxthink it'll break?17:06
johnxanyways, I'm going to bet on it come the 30th, so we'll see I guess :)17:07
RST38hNo, I think it is a small garage-based operation, very specialized device that has to be made in small batches, limited customer base, no funds to match Nokia or HTC in advertising17:08
johnxyeah, well no shit17:09
RST38hSo they either fail to release it, or they release a lemon (see their prototype), or they release it, 100 people buy it, and they go out of business17:09
RST38hThe possibilities for disaster boggle the mind17:09
RST38hSomehow I have higher hopes for Nokia's devices =)17:10
johnxI don't make long shot bets very often. I don't play the lottery. So I'll take one long shot and see if it pays off17:10
johnxand if it doesn't you can laugh at me :)17:10
RST38hIt's not too long a shot - they are promising to release Pandora before Christmas, right?17:10
johnxpreorders on the 30th17:10
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johnxI've been watching the videos and browsing their svn as it comes together17:11
johnxif the only *software* that ever comes out of it is only what I've already seen demoed then I'll still be happy17:11
RST38hThen it is only 3 months for scenario #1 (no-release) and about 15 months for scenario #2 (no-sell)17:12
RST38hpretty short bets17:12
johnxthey're doing it in made-to-order batches to avoid going bankrupt I believe17:12
johnxso the first will be 3000 then they'll look at demand and do a second batch of some number17:12
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RST38h3000 is pretty large batch17:13
RST38hActually, just large enough to get Chinese interested17:13
johnxwell, TI is involved too17:13
RST38hTI isn't making or selling these17:14
johnxright of course17:14
johnxtheir mailing list for when preorders start had 10,000 people signed up a couple weeks ago17:14
RST38hIt is providing development support, "enabling" (C)Intel17:14
RST38h10k actual preorders? cool17:14
johnxnot preorders, people waiting for the preorder info17:14
RST38hbut if they are making 3k, I think the actual number of preorders is 2-3k17:15
johnxlike, I said. we'll see preorder demand by how quickly 3000 preorders are sold out17:16
johnxthen it will be a more interesting discussion17:17
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RST38hAlso depends on how they build their developer community17:17
RST38h*If* they reach the same success with developers as GamePark, they have got a chance17:18
johnxmany of the gamepark devs are coming over to the pandora17:18
johnxtons of stuff has already been shown running17:18
RST38hwell it is a rather generic arm17:18
RST38hnot difficult to port17:19
johnxof course17:19
MangoFusionpanora vs NIT. i need to see a stress test17:19
MangoFusionis it released yet? ;)17:19
johnxStress test? speed or physical design?17:19
* RST38h screams BLEZ! BGTZ! and flaming monkeys fly out of his ears17:19
MangoFusionthe works17:19
MangoFusionfrom whether or not the PIM is good, to whether or not it can survive being driven over by a tank17:21
johnxheh...don't count on any PIM software that didn't come from somewhere else17:21
johnxthis is a hacker's toy17:21
johnxbring your own software :)17:21
johnxemulators will be there. some type of launcher for the emulators will be there. a port of some media player will be there. other than that you get a kernel and some drivers. have fun!17:23
AStormEhh.. need real task manager for n81017:25
AStorm(as in PIM with alarms)17:25
AStormnot that kind :P17:26
RST38hmo#$^&*#ing MIPS uses register #0 to permanently hold 0 constant17:26
AStormso what?17:26
AStormit does17:26
RST38hThat is what you get for letting academicians design an instruction set17:26
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AStormwell, many insns don't take consts17:27
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RST38hand many do =)17:27
AStormyes, so #0 is nice to have17:27
AStormgbe happy that it has 4x the registers of x8617:27
RST38hI would prefer to have an arbitrary constant as an argument17:27
RST38hI can't make use of these registers17:28
RST38hBecause register-indexed-by-register addressation is not there17:28
AStormload/store architecture17:28
RST38hload/store architecture does not mean you have to maim your in-processor operations this much17:29
AStormyou can have load with offset17:29
RST38hARM is also load/store architecture17:29
RST38hwith a *constant* offset :)17:29
AStormthey went for orthogonal 32-bit insns17:29
AStormso what?17:29
RST38hso freaking orthogonal...17:29
AStormcan't use add?17:29
AStormARM is not a true risc :>17:30
RST38hExtras add means extra 32bits to read from ram17:30
RST38hAStorm: Thanks Cthulhu for that17:30
AStormstill faster than 1 bit on everything17:30
RST38hI have got a 2MB (!) MIPS binary17:30
RST38hWhere ARM goes by with 500kB17:30
AStormbecause it's cisc17:31
RST38hAStorm: It is not faster.17:31
RST38hAStorm: Because the RAM in embedded devices is so slow and the caches are virtually non-existant, this thing is SLOW17:31
AStormx86 is almost as small than standard arm (not thumb)17:31
AStormso what?17:31
RST38hx86 is a different animal17:31
RST38hx86 is definitely NOT RISC. ARM is more of a RISC17:32
AStormthere's risc and cisc17:32
RST38hAStorm: 400MHz MIPS runs VGBA at 10fps17:32
AStormhere's no "more risc"17:32
johnxRST38h, well, MHz doesn't mean much17:32
AStormbecause :)17:32
RST38hAStorm: Compare with 400MHz ARM in N8x0 and you will know why I am pissed.17:32
johnxthink armv5 vs armv617:32
RST38hjohnx: Does not matter, really17:32
AStormmips has poor simd17:33
RST38hjohnx: What matters is clocks-per-read17:33
RST38hmips has no simd17:33
AStormthere have been extensions17:33
RST38hbut so does arm, as far as my stuff is concerned17:33
RST38hAStorm: Apparently, *these* Chinese copied MIPS arch before extensions :)17:33
AStormthey probably have their own propietary simd17:34
johnxRST38h, what device is this?17:34
RST38hNot likely, although I am still awaiting a decent datasheet from them17:34
RST38hjohnx: ICNexus17:34
AStormloongsun cpu?17:34
RST38hHow do I save/load from stack in MIPS?17:35
RST38hIs there a pseudoop?17:35
johnxah, right. I was thinking about the linux MIPS-based laptop-thing that I saw17:35
RST38hjohnx: avoid like plague.17:35
AStormthere is17:35
johnxRST38h, I'll try and find one on at a street vendor, next time I'm on a certain street...17:36
johnx...just to play with17:36
RST38hjohnx: avoid like plague.17:36
RST38hget an arm-based thingie.17:36
johnxRST38h, I don't want to *buy* it. I want them to *think* I'm buying it so they let me play17:37
johnxI'm hopeful, not dumb17:37
AStormRST38h, wrong, there's no real one17:37
AStormsome assemblers have it17:37
AStormuse addi and sw on $sp17:39
AStormsome assemblers have a push pseudoop17:39
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RST38hjohnx: Ah17:44
RST38hAStorm: made a macro17:44
AStormbetter do it by hand if storing a lot of stuff at once17:44
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RST38hAStorm: not replacing ldmia with it17:55
AStormexcept you'd be incrementing only once17:57
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AStormmips indeed needs more and faster memory to shine17:58
AStormit wasn't designed for embedded applications17:58
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RST38hthe only use it is still finding though18:00
AStormexcept consoles?18:00
RST38hconsoles are embedded devices too18:01
AStormit's popular because it's cheap18:01
RST38hand it is no longer in consoles...18:01
RST38habout as cheap as arm18:01
AStormno, cheaper18:02
RST38hmips is open architecture though18:02
RST38hno need to pay for copying it18:02
AStormyou can buy a licence with synthesis software18:02
AStormand it's cheap in transistors18:02
AStorm(though arm is cheap too)18:02
RST38hno shit, with braindamaged instruction set like that...18:02
RST38hin any case, you mostly pay for cache in these chips18:03
RST38hthe cpu circuitry itself is smaller than caches18:03
johnxwhich is probably why higher performance devices are using ARMs these days...18:05
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johnxalso, is MIPS continuing to evolve as much as ARM, recently?18:05
AStormbecause arm uses cache more efficiently18:05
AStormno, MIPS is mostly stalled18:05
AStormwho votes for m64k?18:05
AStormheck, I had to code for 8051 - now that is weird arch18:07
matan5 years ago I used dual core 2x1GHz 64bit MIPS (broadcom 1250), which ran fanless at 2x600MHz, so could not have used too much power. I guess arm still have some catch up to do.18:11
XTLMmm 805118:12
johnxmatan, well the cortex a8 is a start :)18:12
RST38hm68k you wanted to ask?18:14
* RST38h throws up at the mention of 80x5118:14
AStormRST38h, yes, braino ;)18:15
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AStormanyway, that arch has more cowbell18:16
ShadowJKwas that dual core or dual cpu? :)18:16
ville_is anyone by any chance using "fremantle"?18:17
AStormno, it's not out yet18:18
RST38hAStorm: 68k is said to be designed after PDP11 =)18:18
RST38hso I guess it has to be good18:18
ville_ok, I figured as much ;-)18:18
RST38hville: was it a trick question? =)18:18
ville_er, actually not. I was just hoping that someone might be using the private stuff18:19
ville_(but that's a bit out of scope for public irc anyway)18:19
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AStormi suspect it'll be out with the next device, which is supposed to use omap3 and have hspa modem18:21
ShadowJKI wonder if the hspa modem will have "legacy" gprs/edge support18:22
AStormwhy not? it's just one chip18:22
johnxShadowJK, are there any HSPA modems without that capability?18:22
AStormand I'll guess nokia will just reuse their latest one18:22
AStormI know no such crippled modems18:23
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ShadowJKso with the sip client you'd effectively have a phone then ;)18:25
Jaredunew liqbase :D18:25
ShadowJKalthough a bit lagged one if only gprs is available18:25
AStormuhm... it will be standard modem... with sim card18:25
AStormso, you should be able to call as usual18:26
AStorm(assuming driver support)18:26
ShadowJKi dont htink you can call with those external modems attached to laptops though?18:26
AStormyou can with some :>18:26
AStormit's just gsm-compressed audio data tbh18:28
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ShadowJKjust signed up with this cool VoIP service with a local telco. You can have as many VoIP clients attached as you want. Like, the old landline phone through ata adapter hooked up to broadband, my cellphone's VoIP client over WLAN or edge/3g, etc, and they all ring at the same time :)18:29
AStormwell, you have call waiting service in gsm too :P18:30
AStormi can't see the point though18:30
AStormunless it's some true conference18:32
AStormthen it's cool (but expensive :P)18:32
Jareduis it sad that my tablet can do google maps better than mah pc?18:32
Jaredusilly vista..18:33
AStormusee Firefox :>18:33
Jaredueven with quad core 8gb ram and 9800gtx a nokia tablet > in os software xD18:33
Jaredui do18:33
Jaredu<3 firefox18:33
Jareduim going through a huge headache of getting fennec on the n81018:33
Jaredu ///wants tab support18:33
Jaredubut i get a segmentation fault18:33
Jareduso i cant install18:33
qwerty12segfault? where?18:33
Jareduduring install18:34
Jareduleaves xulrunner unconfigured18:34
Jareduand bricks my installs18:34
qwerty12Hmm, can you pastebin a lot?18:34
Jareduthen fennec looks weird18:34
Jaredui did on pastebin.mozilla.org18:34
Jaredubut its been like a day18:34
Jaredui dunno if it's still there18:34
Jareduit probably is18:34
Jareducan i search for posts there?18:34
* qwerty12 checks maemo irc logs18:35
Jaredui was on mozilla irc18:35
Jaredutalked with blassey and such18:35
Jareduit appears the error only happens on some people and they dont know what causes it18:35
Jareduive tried installing from .debs, ive tried with wget, and ive tried with both app manager and apt-get18:36
Jareduit always gives seg fault18:36
Jaredutheres a bug report on it18:36
qwerty12Does the error always occur with xulrunner? If so, mind pointing me to the location of the deb?18:36
Jareduone moment18:36
Jareduill get a link18:36
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Jareduits in there18:37
qwerty12k, thanks18:37
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johnxoh man. the latest liqbase looks really hot18:38
Jaredui know dude!18:38
Jareduit looks awesome :D18:38
Jaredui got a youtube email from subscription heh18:38
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johnxI wonder about webkit with a liqbase backend...18:39
Jaredu //just had an idea18:39
Jaredu*runs to get his tablet18:39
qwerty12Jaredu, What happens if you run "/usr/local/xulrunner/xulrunner --register-global" as root?18:39
qwerty12~curse realtek download area18:41
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, realtek download area !18:41
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Jareduit starts fennec18:42
Jareduthe package is broken18:42
Jaredulemme try though18:42
Jareduwant a screenshot of what my fennec looks like?18:42
Jaredueven blassey thought it was screwed :D18:42
Jareduone sec18:42
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Jaredufrom default install my fennec looks like that18:46
johnxyes. that's broken18:46
qwerty12Ouch, can it even be used to browse a site? :P18:46
Jaredunot at all18:46
Jareduthe refresh and plus and option buttons are clickable but they do nothign18:47
Jaredui got an idea though18:47
Jaredui hate my menus not being organized anymore18:47
Jaredui had to flash my tablet to get xulrunner off the first time18:47
Jaredui now have some handy code to get rid of it for me :D18:48
Jaredubut i lost all my menus and stuff18:48
Jaredui found the organize button and made custom menus :D18:48
Stskeepslcuk: insanely cool new liqbase indeed - you're really exploring some new interaction methods18:51
Jareduit looks awesome18:51
qwerty12Who wants to come with me up North to steal lcuk's computer and his binary for latest liqbase?18:52
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Stskeepscan i bring beer?18:54
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qwerty12Sure, we must make the target drunk as to make him unaware to what is going on :P18:54
Jaredui say it'd save on gas to just ssh into his comp :D18:55
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Jareduanyone know how to install a downloaded .deb package with wget -i ?19:01
Jaredulike /user/local/~ or something19:02
Jaredui dont know the default dir19:02
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Stskeepsdpkg -i? :P19:05
Jaredudpkg -i something19:05
Jaredufor install19:05
Jaredugot it :D19:06
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JaffaEvening, all19:21
woglindehi jaffa19:22
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Siliciumhi there19:36
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Siliciumwhere i can find the flash script for n800?19:36
woglindeyou dont need a script for flasher19:39
Siliciumor how is named?19:39
infoboti guess flashing is
scriptwho's calling *look up*?19:40
woglindelook up?19:41
woglindeis n't that a movie with sylvester stallone?19:42
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Jaredu17Jareduhmm12:17Jaredui downloaded way too many packages for xulrunner12:17Jaredui used all my memory12:17Jareduany way to do rm /usr/local/ without bricking the system or is that area just for downloads20:27
Jaredusorry for the copypaste, but i didnt feel like retyping it all lol20:28
lcukStskeeps, there is a beta signup on itT if you wanna get along it will be cool20:28
lcuki should have everything needed in place in a couple of days :) i spent yesterday cleaning up the codebase and rebuilding the essentials for a package (as well as some other things)20:29
lcukJaredu, i just saw your comment :)20:30
Stskeepsyou can include me in there i guess, - the Re: liqbase playtest available call for beta or?20:30
lcukcall for assistance20:31
lcuki hoped for more codey types, but that was fine as it stands, beta will be good for binaries20:31
lcukthough most things pass my extensive tests20:31
lcuktheres only some fringes and seeing how it copes on users machines to do :)20:32
Stskeepsi can review C atleast.. you should hire a bunch of people with aspergers, a bit of autism is good for testing ;20:32
lcukyer, i sometimes think thats how i copy20:32
Stskeepssame here.. if it's managable tedious work i can do it20:32
melmothlcuk: do you plan to make liqbase runnable on scratchbox ?20:33
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lcukmelmoth, why scratchbox?20:33
melmothall the pressure and idontknowwhatyuvisabout thingy fails20:33
RST38hboo, lcuk20:33
melmothbecause i only have 1 tablet.20:33
melmothi call it "production"20:33
Stskeepslcuk: just want me to post on that thread to indicate i'm interested or just follow the SVN checkout stuff and see what holes i can find? :P20:33
lcuksvn is ancient now, just post and subscribe to the thread ill post and mail as many as i can find once its released20:34
melmoth"svn is ancient" ts ts ts20:34
* lcuk has nightlies20:34
* melmoth push lcuk to use garage svn as his working repository.20:34
lcuklast time i did that i had "issues" sorting everything out - i spent almost a month of lost dev time just because of a single update :)20:35
melmothlast time i did that, i just svn diff the previous version, and recommited. Ugly, but it work20:36
Stskeepsmelmoth: i decided not to use garage svn for my stuff after the whole ErrorDocument debacle and wrong scm paths and such..20:36
melmoththere is a wrong link to the nightly tarball on the garage page for each projetc, but this is the only issue i am aware of.20:37
lcukthis codebase is quite extensive and contains modules to do an awful lot of stuff and viable options for a number of things, and i got sidetracked discussing those and making arrangements and stuff20:37
melmothis there another problem with garage svn ?20:37
Stskeepsyes, this was back in june, but it kinda put me off garage svn :P20:37
Stskeepsthen again i'm a grumpy open source developer who was way too spoiled with people throwing hosting at me like candies at schoolchildren20:37
Stskeepslcuk: posted and just prod anytime if you want something reviewed20:38
lcukexcellent sts :)20:38
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lcukwell things have fallen into place quite nicely and just a few bits of garnish to help the beta testers20:39
* lcuk wants beta testers to enjoy filing bugs20:39
melmothlcuk: please please use the garage stuff, public svn and bugzillalike thing available there.20:40
RST38hlcuk, you still need a killer app for the liqbase =)20:40
lcuki have already changed my mind about the closed beta and stuff, yes it will be on garage as far as i know20:40
StskeepsRST38h: replace "Home"? :P20:40
lcukRST38h, :)20:40
lcukthank god i havent got an iphone, i stopped finger painting a long time ago20:41
Stskeepsi would actually love something like liqbase for Home/desktop on maemo20:41
Stskeepsabusing zooming and such maybe oto20:41
lcukStskeeps, :) technically builds on x86 linux :)20:41
RST38hSts: or replace canola engines20:42
lcukas soon as i get dev time i will be rectifying the remaining bugs and then it can be kept in sync20:42
RST38hmaybe replace the whole bunch of testing stuff you have there with something unified?20:43
lcuki was speaking to one of the edje or other rendering guys recently20:43
Stskeepslcuk: if it was me i'd take stuff like this to researchers within pervasive computing.. could be interesting to see a mix20:43
RST38hsome kind of finger ui breakthrough like spreadsheets were once?20:43
Stskeepslcuk: i'll demo liqbase to some of the researchers i work with and see if they maybe have some input20:43
lcukyes RST38h :) there is a plan to move liqbase from being my playground to bein a proper app, but somehow having all the different aspects to just play with adds to its appeal20:44
melmothlcuk: do you plan to make it workable for "regular" non touch screen (machine without canvas XSP raw mouse thnigy)?20:44
lcukeven if you flick in and out of a module for 10 seconds - thats 10 more seconds of face time which makes you smile :)20:44
Stskeepsthey're insane for mobile devices and the population of n8x0 tablets on campus is high :P20:44
* melmoth is still thinking about scratchbox20:44
lcukmelmoth, the new build includes a USE_MAEMO switch which if disabled runs on normal mouse driver with no touch sensitivity20:45
lcukbut tbh having 9 buttons visible from orbit on a 24 inch monitor doesnt work too well20:45
RST38hlcuk: My suspicion is, you can *retain* having all the different aspects while adding unified ui20:45
lcukthe paradigm is wrong20:45
lcukits the same reason why desktop apps dont work too well on hildon20:45
RST38hlcuk: you can think of the thumbnail view as a "universe" of documents20:45
RST38hwhich you navigate with your finger20:46
lcukthe graffiti wall is one thing, i meant the menuing20:46
melmothbut, one could play on scratchibox with that, and not take the risk to....have to remove the battery of his tablet because bad things may happen.20:46
lcukgraffiti is configurable to various scales20:46
RST38hevery document can have its own type - text, drawing, physics sim, even web browser20:46
lcuki only removed the adjustable size recently with new ui backend20:46
RST38hSo basically, in addition to that graffiti navigator, you want to have a menu NEW DOCUMENT by type20:46
lcuktheres certainly lots of options and im very confident i can add to the experience for users :)20:47
RST38hAnd this will be it20:47
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* lcuk is making a bugtracker as we speak20:47
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* lcuk just increased his word count by a few hundred20:48
Jaredusweet :D20:48
lcukmy 6 year old was using it the other day, made me so proud to watch him browsing around and drawin stuff and playin :)20:50
Jaredulcuk: how do you deal with scratches on the tablet?20:51
Stskeepsassuming people have a good screen protector? :P20:51
lcukheh - well ive worn out a tablet, its not sensitive to touch with finger any more - most noticable in a single area20:51
Jaredui just ordered invisibleshield for my tablet (full armor+screen)20:52
Jareduim parinoid of scratches20:52
Jaredui love the touch... but it worries me20:52
lcukif you watch the videos there is a midle left area that just doesnt know about my finger any more20:52
lcukive given up, im the first i know who has worn it out :)20:52
Jaredusend it back to nokia for repair?20:52
lcukbut, there was a woman on the metro in berlin20:52
lcukshe sat down and pulled out an old dell20:52
lcukshe started playin something, but from the angle i couldnt see properly20:53
lcukbut then i noticed her screen had scratches in very specific places20:53
lcukand realised she must play solitaire on the train every day20:53
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Jaredui cant stand that20:54
Jaredueven a tiny scratch20:54
Jaredumakes the device lose interest20:54
Jaredui hate it20:54
Jareduespecially for movies20:54
Jaredudrives me ballistic20:54
Jareduinvisible armor :D20:54
Jaredui like using it for sketc20:54
Jaredubut crosshatching20:54
lcukyer, screen protectors or a better harder screen would be good20:54
Jaredui notice it'll destroy it fast20:54
lcukits grit thats the killer20:54
lcuki am constantly feeling for the slightest resistence20:55
Jaredui kind of wish it had a screen like the iphone, supposedly it can go in with change and crap and not get scratches20:55
lcukrunning stylus through a fingerprint is a bad one20:55
lcuka sapphire screen would be best :)20:55
Jareduand the tiny grains of dirt that get on the screen20:56
Jaredusapphire eh?20:56
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lcukits technically the screens used at shopping centres for scanning over at the till20:56
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lcukthey have to be mega durable20:56
lcukthats the slash discussion that tells you a bit more about it20:57
Jaredu....holy shit20:57
Jaredui want it20:57
lcukkeys are childsplay :)20:58
lcukis that a crossbow in your pocket?20:58
Jaredugood god20:58
JareduI WANT20:58
Jareduis there any way to mod the n810 screen?20:58
Jareduthat is flipping amazing20:58
lcukcrystalised sapphire  coating is pretty much amazing stuff, no im not sure its possible - certianly not without losing the touch - but it would be good20:59
Jareduthose are touch monitors21:00
Jareduprobably a diff type of touchscreen though21:00
lcukim not sure i would like to have to use a crossbow just to click "buy now" on an ebay auiction21:00
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lcukright, offski for a bit, nice chatting with you lot as usual21:02
Jareducaio dude21:02
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aladdsanyone here ever repaired an over-voltage damaged 770?21:16
Stskeeps'lo aladds, and sorry to hear your tablet died in the name of progress :P21:16
aladdsmm :(21:16
Stskeepsatleast it seems like it has sparked some more interest :)21:17
aladds9v to the UB port...21:17
aladdsthis is true :021:17
Stskeepssure it's not just the battery that burnt out?21:17
aladdsbattery's showing a good voltage21:17
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aladdsbut if it is burnt out, can i run it without?21:17
aladdsi imagine i need to short a couple of pins on the battery connector?21:18
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JasonWoofhow do I get the contents of the selection?21:31
JasonWoofeg something like xclip21:31
JasonWoofI want something that will spit it to stdout21:31
johnxI think I built an xclip .deb a while ago21:32
johnxlet's see if I can track it down21:33
JasonWoofahh, found something on gronmayer21:33
JasonWoofxclip that is21:33
JasonWoofthought I'd ask if there was already something installed that would do it21:33
johnxI don't think21:33
johnxor at least I didn't know when I compiled xclip...21:33
JasonWoofheh heh21:34
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_julian_any ideas where to get this keyboard app for n800?
johnx_julian_, from my understanding it's just a demo21:35
johnxJasonWoof, if that doesn't work for you this one should:
JasonWoofahh, got it. took me a little while to find libxmu621:45
JasonWoofsomehow I had maemo-extra but not maemo21:45
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johnxI should reinstall my text2speech hack again... :)21:46
aladdsanyone know if/where i can get iT spare parts? (specifically the 770 motherboard :P)21:46
johnxaladds, you think that the whole thing is cooked?21:46
aladdsnah, just a custom chip21:46
aladdswhich i obviously can't replace21:47
* lcuk used to replace smt chips21:47
aladds(because it's custom, thus not readily available)21:47
aladdsoh i could probably get access to smt desoldering/soldering kit21:47
aladdsbut getting the parts will probably be impossible21:48
johnxaladds, post an ad on and ask for a 770 with WSOD21:48
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johnxyou might get one rather cheap21:48
_julian_trying to install canola2 I get an error that python2.5-terra >= 0.1.8-maemo1 is needed, but ony 0.1.7 is available21:48
_julian_any ideas how to fix that?21:48
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johnx_julian_, caonola2 beta10 is half uploaded to the repository21:48
johnxwait a day or two21:49
_julian_johnx: ah ok, so just wait until tomorrow?21:49
_julian_ok, cool (c:21:49
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johnx_julian_, also, do you have extras-devel enabled? I didn't think it was in extras yet...21:49
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JasonWoofyay :) now I have a one-liner that speaks the selection to me21:50
aladdsjohnx: is the problem with those just th LCD?21:50
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johnxaladds, hmmm...I want to say it's a bad inverter...but I might be making that up21:51
aladdsbut surely if the screen's white the inveters powering the backlight/21:51
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aladdsor is it using too much power?21:52
johnxlike I said, I might have made that up21:52
_julian_johnx: yep21:52
aladdswell you could be right21:52
aladdsif the inverter uses too much power the screen might not power up21:52
_julian_for qedje and stuff...21:52
johnx_julian_, try disabling it, installing canola2, then turning it back on :)21:52
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johnxaladds,'s something else21:52
aladdsah ok21:53
* johnx is tired and mixing up his terminology21:53
johnxI'll find the thread where the people who know what they're talking about mention the real cause21:53
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JasonWoofnow how do I map that useless button on the front of my n810 to run my shell script?21:53
_julian_johnx: I can wait for 1-2 days if I'll get a bleeding version then... just interested in how canola looks now (c:21:53
JasonWoof(the one with the circular arrow on it)21:53
_julian_canola2 is using edje/evas, right?21:53
johnxJasonWoof, your escape key aka the browser "back" button?21:54
JasonWoofjohnx: I don't know what it's supposed to do21:54
ds3is there a command line way of generating a list of installed packages in chinook?21:55
ds3dpkg -somemagicincantation prehaps?21:55
JasonWoofjohnx: there's two buttons on the frunt of the device when it's closed. the bottom one seems pretty useless21:55
JasonWoofds3: dpkg -l21:55
JasonWoofI think21:55
johnxJasonWoof, if it's a curved arrow pointing left that key sends "esc" and is used in the browser and other apps for "back"21:56
JasonWoofbackspace works fine for  browser-back21:56
johnxJasonWoof, if you have the keyboard out. anyways, you can map it to something like F13 with xmodmap and then have something listen for it and launch a script21:57
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JasonWoofjohnx: ok, I think I know how to do most of that, except the "have something listen"21:58
JasonWoofare there settings in the wm?21:58
johnxJasonWoof, something like keylaunch21:58
JasonWoofahh hah!21:58
Stskeepsjohnx: btw, mount --bind /sys /mnt/initfs/sys, chroot /mnt/initfs prolly gives us wlan-cal settings in any compiled driver.. i'll include that fix sometime22:00
Stskeepsso deblet is more FCC-friendly22:00
JasonWoofI'll have to start fiddling with xmodmap more. the default keybindings suck22:00
JasonWoofthere's five slots where they didn't bother putting a symbol, and some really useful symbols they left off, mainly | and esc22:01
JasonWoofwell, guess esc is on the front of the case22:01
JasonWoofand tab22:01
JasonWoof^i is a pain to type22:02
ds3JasonWoof: thanks22:02
johnxaladds, that thread has the info on the cause of the WSOD. but it seems to be isolated to a daughterboard as the 770 still boots after getting a WSOD22:03
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Jaredui just flashed my tablet22:10
Jareduand it says on my internal mem that i have 130mb used22:10
Jareduand 118 available22:10
johnxsounds about right22:11
Jaredui just flashed it and it already used all of the memory22:11
Jaredui expanded it via the internal card22:11
johnx"expanded it via the internal card"22:11
johnxwhat does that mean?22:11
Jaredufor applications22:11
Jaredui setup virtual swap22:11
johnxyou enabled virtual memory or swap?22:11
johnxyeah, that's for expanding RAM22:11
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Jaredui know22:12
Jaredubut under data22:12
Jareduit says 4.31 mb images 4.22mb audio clips 15.0mb documents and 13.1mb installed apps22:12
Jareduthats not 130mb22:12
johnxthat's not talking about RAM22:12
johnxthat's talking about the onboard flash storage22:12
Jaredui know22:12
johnxthe expanding has nothing to do with that22:12
Jareduwhy is half the memory gone22:13
Jareduif i have used none of it22:13
johnxthe OS22:13
Jaredubefore i flashed it22:13
Jaredui had downloaded files via wget22:13
Jaredui believe they ended up in /usr/local22:13
Jareduhow would i get rid of them?22:13
Jareduor find out where it put them22:13
johnxthey're gone22:13
johnxif you flashed22:13
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Jareduso 117mb is what i got to work with for apps22:14
Jareducrap :(22:14
johnxwell, start by deleting the included pictures, and video and PDF user manual22:14
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johnxor moving them to an SD card22:14
johnxif you use internal storage only for apps, it shouldn't be a problem22:15
Jaredui like lots of apps ;)22:15
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johnxthen you might want to boot from SD22:16
Jareduthat wears out the card? :P22:16
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johnxthere's no such thing as a free lunch22:16
Jaredui got a 4gb sd card :)22:16
Jareduit'd do nicely22:16
Jareduof course there is :)22:17
johnxwell you don't get one :)22:17
Jaredui wonder22:17
Jareducould i boot from usb hdd?22:17
Jaredui know it has support for usb hdd22:18
johnxit's less than straighforward, but yes22:18
Jareduthat'd be interesting22:18
Jareducould get a 64gb ssd22:18
Jareduheh ;)22:18
johnxyou have to weigh how much your sd card will cost to replace (in a year or two), multiply by it's chance of failing (low), and then figure out if having lots of convenient storage is worth it22:19
Jareduchance of failing?22:19
Jaredui got my 4gb for like 12$22:19
Jaredupreeeety much desposable22:20
Jareduthough; data is important22:20
johnxyeah, there's not a 100% chance you'll kill it by booting off of it, so you might as well get your money's worth22:20
johnxlol, so boot from sd and save your data to the internal flash :)22:20
Jaredulol the flash will fail eventually22:20
Jaredukinda worries meh :P22:21
gomiamerm... what are the usual prices you find for a 8GB SD card?22:21
derfThere was a guy who filled up his SD card except for one block, and then wrote to it until it failed.22:21
johnxby the time internal flash failure is your problem you'll be thinking about upgrading the memory diamond in your implanted computer22:21
derfTook 90,000 writes, and he could still read all his data afterwards.22:21
johnxyeah, the most likely cause of failure is probably physical damager during insertion or storage22:21
Jaredui do quite a few writes a day22:22
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Jaredudunno about single blocks22:22
Jaredubut i can use this thing 7 hours straight22:22
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Jareduevery day22:22
johnxI swapped to my 1GB card for several years22:22
derfYeah, but presumably you have more than one block free.22:22
derfThat's basically the worst case for wear-leveling.22:23
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Jaredui suppose worst case22:23
Jaredui can send it to nokia and make them fix it22:23
johnxand you can still use a card with damaged blocks, BTW22:24
Jaredudoes dpkg -i get rid of the .deb from wget ?22:24
Jareduso if i do wget ftp://ftp.xxxxxxxx22:24
Jareduwhere does it go22:24
gomiamcurrent directory22:24
johnxthe current directory22:24
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Jareduso like22:25
Jareduif im in terminal22:25
Jareduwhere would it download it?22:25
Jaredusay im under sudo gainroot22:25
gomiamwherever you currently are22:25
johnxtype pwd22:25
johnxthen hit enter22:25
johnxthat will tell you your current directory22:25
Jareduso i should do cd /home/user/MyDocs/.documents/22:26
Jareduand then dpkg -i22:26
gomiamfor example22:26
johnxif that's where you downloaded it to22:26
gomiamI'm more partial to /media/mmc1/deb22:26
johnxor you can just click on it in file manager22:26
gomiam(I created that directory on a memory card)22:26
Jaredunice :D22:26
Jareduhow do i create dir?22:27
Jareduthat sounds nice actually22:27
johnxJaredu, yeah, if you download everything to /home/user/foo then you're wasting space on the flash storage22:27
gomiamJaredu: mkdir path22:27
johnxmkdir foo22:27
johnxfor example mkdir /media/mmc2/foo22:27
gomiamas in mkdir /media/mmc1/deb for example22:27
Jareduthis should be nice then :D22:27
ds3anyone here use POP with diablo?22:28
gomiamds3 me22:29
gomiamwith the standard client22:29
Jareduim imap w/ gmail :)22:29
ds3gomiam: any problems?22:29
ds3the modest beta was broken for POP when I tried it22:29
gomiamds3: none whatsoever, even when using POP3S22:29
ds3I'm just going through a checklist before reflashing to diablo22:29
gomiamwell, the mail client eats up all my CPU whenever I connect to WiFi, but that's to be expected XD22:30
gomiamif it was really a problem I would set it up so it doesn't get mail automatically22:30
gomiamis $28 too much for a Kingston 8GB SDHC Class 4 memory card?22:31
Jareduthats damn nice22:31
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Jaredui got my 4gb for 1222:31
Jaredubut damn22:31
Jaredu8gb for 30?22:31
gomiamJaredu: (even better when translated to Euros;-)22:31
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gomiamI think I should go find some dinner....22:32
gomiamI may be afk for a bit. Have fun.22:32
Jareduk lol22:32
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eeroI don't get it how to create a package from python software for extras-dev repo ..22:39
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johnxeero, I've heard about py2deb but documentation is scarce:
eeroautobuilder doesn't seem to have python2.5 installed22:41
eeroand in Makefile python2.5 is used ..22:41
johnxyour package needs to depend on it I would assume22:41
eeroautobuilder returns an error that it doesn't have python2.522:42
eeroI have tried everything..sigh ..22:42
melmothadd python2.5 in the package control depencies. so the autobuilder will install it before compiling22:43
eeroI had python2.5-dev ...22:43
melmothBuild-Depends: debhelper (>= 5),python2.5-runtime,python2.5-dev22:44
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eerooh..i didn't have python2.5-runtime22:44
eerothat was not mentioned in the documents22:44
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eeroi'll try that..thanks22:44
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jotthey pupnik81022:51
pupnik810i am going to get a umts contract22:51
pupnik810looking at O2 atm22:52
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jottpupnik810: fyi: gives a short overview22:53
pupnik810the huawei E169 usb stick seems to have good linux support22:53
pupnik810ty jott22:53
pupnik810but i might get a real umts phone if i can also datalink to laptop over usb22:54
johnxthat new skypephone s2 looks like a great deal if it had quad-band gsm...22:54
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pupnik810any open-source phones with umts worth a look?22:57
Jaredunot many22:57
johnxpupnik810, t-mobile g1?22:58
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pupnik810what os, johnx?22:58
johnxpupnik810, linux, google's android software stack22:58
johnxout in a couple months though22:59
penguinbaitwhat do you think?22:59
Jaredui work for tmob. indirect dealer, the g1 is nice :D22:59
Jareduits gsm though, not utms22:59
johnxJaredu, you need to brush up on your jargon then :)22:59
johnxJaredu, it's very much umts :)23:00
Jaredumy bad23:00
Jareduwrong term23:00
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Jareduwas thinking utms == crap that sprint/verizon use23:00
JareduCDMA =\= utms23:01
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johnxno problem, just had to pick on you a bit :D23:01
* johnx is just a snarky jackass like that23:01
Jaredudually noted, i fell like an idiot now haha23:01
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johnxJaredu, so have you had a chance to play with it?23:02
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Jaredunot yet23:02
Jaredubut ive played with android23:02
Jareduits a fun os23:02
johnxyeah, it'll be great to have the source to that23:02
pupnik810looks neato23:02
Jareduyou can download the pc sdk from the site23:02
johnxpupnik810, unfortunately you'll have to wait for EU 3G23:03
johnxJaredu, yup. saw it. It'll still be nice to have source though, to use it on the n8x0 or zaurus23:04
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johnxpenguinbait, ok, what has a capacity of 9.1MB?23:04
jottand an "opensource os" without sources is not so much "opensource" after all :)23:04
pupnik810johnx what u mean wait for eu 3G --- umtg == 3G, no?23:05
penguinbaitit was my first dvd, I burned from my 81023:05
penguinbaitI wanted to start small23:05
johnxpupnik810, t-mobile US runs their UMTS network on different frequencies23:05
infobotpupnik810 meant: johnx what u mean wait for eu 3G --- umts == 3G, no?23:05
jottpupnik810: the g1 will be out "in 2009" in europe23:05
pupnik810ohh nm23:05
pupnik810need umts next week23:05
johnxUS just needs to be special...23:06
jotta friend just got the nokia e71. seems quite nice.23:06
pupnik810i just need a solid fone to pair with N81023:06
pupnik810will look at e7123:07
pupnik810"droppable" would be nice23:07
GeneralAntillesHey, pupnik810.23:08
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pupnik810hey .. jott got any preferences for provider?  o2, telekom, base, vodaphone?23:09
pupnik810hi ga23:09
Jareduwhats the command for opening a .tar into a .deb?23:09
jottpupnik810: not really. tbh all suck :P23:10
Jareduthe dir and file are /media/mmc1/deb/xulrunner1.9b5pre.en-US.linux-armel.tar23:10
Jareduor something like that23:10
Jareduhow do i get that to a .deb23:10
jottpupnik810: base just got simple 3g no hsdpa otherwise it seems fair.23:10
pupnik810O2 will allow irc at least.  want hsdpa and hsupa23:11
johnxJaredu, a .tar is like a .zip . It's just a generic container23:11
jottall other providers cap at 5-10gb23:11
Jareduso how do i untar it to .deb?23:11
johnxJaredu, you don't23:11
Jareduit was a tar.bz223:11
jottand o2 have not rolled out 7.2mbit hsdpa.. :/23:12
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johnxJaredu, I think you downloaded source code instead of binaries23:12
johnxJaredu, or maybe you downloaded xulrunner binaries for desktop linux? What are you trying to do?23:12
Jareduits -xf23:12
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pupnik810 //want vgba 3.61 ,)23:34
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Jareduits nice23:34
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* pupnik810 stamps foot and pouts23:35
* lcuk buys pupnik a beer n a kebab n hopes it will placate him23:37
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* Jaffa points -community at and waits for people who can actually draw/design (or not) to moan :)23:59

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