IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2008-09-27

RST38hAs in "Violation punishable by death"00:00
sneakret(a 70s funk version of the free software song)00:00
* RST38h wonders if cutting down screen size, scaling, and the number of drawn frames will make vgba faster on the nxc260000:01
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RST38honly one way to know...00:01
KotCzarnycut the bastard!00:01
AStormblah, tongue cleaners are overrated00:01
KotCzarnyastorm: candida alibins?00:01
AStormalbicans if you mean that00:01
KotCzarnyi usually see only first part of the name00:02
AStormactually, there was a nice scientific efficacy test00:02
AStorma proper mouthwash was more effective ;P00:02
KotCzarnyyes, just spit in the glass of water00:02
KotCzarnyif it's glue-jello like00:02
KotCzarnyyou have it00:02
AStormnot necessarily that one00:04
AStormother germs produce biofilms too00:04
KotCzarnystill, you have something infecting your oral cavities00:04
AStormdefinitely, as has everyone ;P00:04
AStormbut then, you have a lot of it00:04
KotCzarnyoral cavities?00:05
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AStormno, germs... obviously, there's one oral cavity00:06
KotCzarnymore with genetic failures00:07
sneakretI think patents (and intellectual property laws in general) need reform. They were intended to reward innovation and creativity rather than stifle it.00:07
GeneralAntillesNo shit? :P00:07
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KotCzarnysneakret: that would be nice, if the lawmakers weren't close friends with bussiness00:08
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sneakretGA: I realize I'm stating the obvious, but it's not so obvious that it's happening.00:08
sneakretI sure hope society can eventually repay Walt Disney for inventing Mickey Mouse!00:09
KotCzarnyhe's dead00:09
sneakretand his copyright lives on00:09
KotCzarnyhitting the clone isn't the same00:10
johnxit's the mickey mouse rule00:10
johnxevery time mickey mouse is in danger of going into the public domain, copyrights must be extended00:10
sneakretYeah. That's why I chose Mickey. :)00:10
AStormtrademark is ok00:11
AStormpatents are definitely another issue00:12
sneakrethow bout copyright?00:12
AStormMickey is not patented, but trademarked00:12
sneakretand what makes trademarks okay?00:12
AStormcopyright is... well :)00:12
AStormthe problem is not copyright, but patent00:12
KotCzarnyisn't it that they hunt down mm clones?00:12
sneakretCopyright is a problem too, in my opinion.00:13
AStormyeah, e.g. MP3 was patented, it only began to spread because of leaked illegal copies of encoders ;P00:13
AStormthen reimplementation (still patented) spread00:13
sneakretSure... LZW, too.00:13
AStormsneakret: it really is not, because copyright can't harm others :>00:13
sneakretI agree that patents are a problem. I think copyright is also a problem.00:13
KotCzarnym$ windows/dos to00:14
AStormwhat can harm is underdescribed protocols00:14
KotCzarnyand x86 pcs too00:14
KotCzarnyalthough that was intended i think00:14
johnxpatents are the worst problem, copyright's are an unfortunate limitation and trademarks are just annoying sometimes00:14
AStormtrick is, copyright should not amount to protocols00:14
AStormand deciphering protocols should not be considered reverse engineering00:14
sneakretI can go along with johnx00:14
sneakretThat's how I'd rank them too.00:15
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* lcuk cannot find svn for tablet anymore - has anyone seen it anywhere?00:15
AStormdeciphering algorithms... meh, shouldn't be too00:15
KotCzarnyhow about hw access protocols?00:15
AStormthis clause should die00:15
jottthat does not stop the copyright mafia :)00:15
jottbackscroll :D00:15
sneakretAStorm: Yeah, now you're starting to talk about why I say copyright is a problem.00:16
AStormreverse engineering costs money and time anyway :) and you can actually patent your UI solutions00:16
AStormand algorithms00:16
sneakretThere are clauses and surrounding laws that make copyright suck.00:16
sneakretI'm sure the ipod touch wheel is patented00:16
AStormtrick is, how does the company profit if a competitor rev-engs their product00:16
AStormactually, reverse engineering is... a slow method00:17
sneakretIntellectual property isn't simple to resolve. :)00:17
AStormand you can patent the algorithms anyway (somewhere)00:17
AStormin some parts of the world00:17
sneakretAh. Yeah, in the US.00:17
GeneralAntilleslcuk, Chinook Extras.00:17
AStormEU too00:17
GeneralAntillesNobody has packaged it up for Diablo Extras.00:18
jottyou can also register them in eu but you can't really enforce them in the eu.00:18
AStormbut, the patent clause is idiotic, it is far too long00:18
AStormso, that's where the reverse engineering clause steps in00:18
KotCzarnyit's because no one expected the progress00:18
AStormto make everyone unable to produce a similar product00:19
AStormcopyright actually has nothing to do with reverse engineering00:19
lcukthanks GeneralAntilles :)00:19
AStormwhile IP on protocols should be banned00:19
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KotCzarnyi wonder when someone patents bliny, or pancakes00:19
AStormIntellectual Property is a lie00:19
sneakret"IP on protocols"... haha00:19
AStormsoftware patents are not00:19
GeneralAntillesjott, package svn up for Diablo Extras.00:19
sneakretJust IPv4, or are you including IPv6 in that?00:20
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jottGeneralAntilles: 1.5 or is 1.4 enough? :)00:20
AStormthere's no intellectual property, while you can patent algorithms already (e.g. chemicals)00:20
GeneralAntillesjott, whatever's handy.00:20
AStormmedical companies do it all the time (and too long time also)00:20
sneakretI wanna copyright my DNA, then design a virus that splices it into other people, and sue them.00:21
AStormpatents should automatically expire on failure to produce in a set time00:21
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sneakretIt'd also be nice if patents expired if they went unenforced for too long.00:21
AStormsneakret: pity, you actually can't patent life just yet00:21
jottpatents are much more effective than copyright :)00:21
sneakretsimilar to trademark00:21
AStormsome guys tried to do that00:21
KotCzarnyaren't some folks patenting dna?00:22
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KotCzarnyor something related to it00:22
AStormread up on Mycobacterium laboratoriae (or sth) JVCI-1.000:22
sneakretYeah. The mapping of DNA.00:22
AStormor whatever00:22
sneakretof the human genome, specifically00:22
KotCzarnythat's it00:22
sneakretso I was just taking it to another ludicrous level.00:22
AStormtrick is, that can't be patented as it's not an invention00:22
AStormyou can't patent your own DNA ;P00:22
KotCzarnyif i am special00:23
KotCzarnyand it can be used for something?00:23
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AStormthat bacterium is synthetic... so the whole organism could theoretically be patented... if patent system allowed that00:23
KotCzarnyand no one else has it?00:23
AStormas organisms are not considered inventions, even if synthetic00:23
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sneakretsomehow though, math IS an invention00:23
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AStormKotCzarny: no, it's not an invention, it's prior work00:23
sneakretThat's bizarre.00:23
AStormsneakret: prior work again00:23
sneakretAStorm: Hmm?00:24
KotCzarnyyou can patent algos00:24
KotCzarnymath is all algosw00:24
AStormmath as a whole was described long before patent system was in place00:24
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AStormsome algorithms00:24
AStormyou can't patent long division for example00:24
KotCzarnybut you can patent physical application00:25
sneakretAStorm: Ah. I meant specific mathematic discoveries can be patented as if they're inventions.00:25
AStormbut if you find a new way to do that operation, be sure to patent it00:25
sneakretwhen in fact they're inherent laws00:25
AStormlike which?00:25
KotCzarnymethods to solve misc things?00:25
AStorm== algorithms00:26
AStormyou can't patent the law these are based on00:26
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KotCzarnywhat if there is only one way to solve something?00:26
sneakretor one "best" way00:26
sneakretwhere everything else is just an approximation or obfuscation00:27
AStormthat one is previous work00:27
AStormthey can patent the circuit, but not algorithm00:27
AStormthat algorithm was long known and described in literature00:27
AStormenforcing this will fail in court00:27
sneakretIt's still patented.00:27
KotCzarnyjust obfuscate it with weird words00:28
sneakretand it is still a nuisance to be sued00:28
KotCzarnyand people at patent office allow it00:28
AStormsneakret: yes, so what?00:28
AStormthey will pay the costs, not even the best lawyer would get them out of it00:28
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AStormKotCzarny: yes, so what? a court will reject it00:28
KotCzarnywhat if they bribe the court?00:29
AStormpatent can be contested in court as most other things00:29
sneakretIf you the party suing you has enough money, and you have little enough, it doesn't really matter if they win the suit. They can still put you out of business.00:29
KotCzarnylaw is a law00:29
AStormthen they break the law already by bribery00:29
KotCzarnyno matter how stupid00:29
AStormsneakret: they can stop your business00:29
AStormwhich is horrible in case of patents00:29
AStormthe clause should be revised to disallow such stupid actions and instead require a full recall if a violation is found00:30
KotCzarnysomeone tried to patent @ also00:30
sneakretYeah. So when you say math can't be patented, it seems like that's only a technicality.00:30
KotCzarnyand doubleclick00:30
crashanddieX-Fade, when the fuck are we gonna get git as an RCS on the garage?00:30
AStormsneakret: laws can't be00:30
KotCzarny(or was it tripleclick)00:30
AStormalgorithms based on the laws can00:30
sneakretlaws can't be what?00:30
sneakretOh. Mathematic laws. Gotcha.00:30
AStormso, if they manage to compute small cosines another way, then they win00:31
sneakretStill, if someone patented the provably most efficient way of calculating pi, that would suck.00:31
AStormwell, that patent should be impossible to extend00:31
AStormpatent extension is the most horrible thing ever00:31
AStormit should die00:31
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, you don't remember the answer to that one from before? :P00:32
AStormand it should be short enough in case of software00:32
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, it's a very non-trivial task to integrate it into gforge.00:32
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, feel free to provide patches, though. ;)00:32
AStormat most a few years (as in, <=5)00:32
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, you could always talk a semi-integrated solution, though.00:32
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, I might have had a few beers, my memory doesn't serve me well00:32
AStormpatents are meant to provide a headstart to the developer of technology00:32
GeneralAntillesi.e., account sharing, but no website-integration.00:33
sneakretExtension of copyright is also something I'd like to see killed.00:33
KotCzarnywere meant00:33
AStormwell, copyright is not timed00:33
KotCzarnynow it's a lock on competition00:33
AStormactually, it is, but it's specifically a very long time00:33
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, I just want to have a RCS that allows a circular development, and that tracks contents, not files00:33
sneakretYeah. And you can file for extensions.00:33
AStormas copyright was meant to work for life of an artist00:33
AStormcopyright should never have been extended to corporations... or in that case, should've been impossible to extend00:34
sneakretAStorm: You keep saying you disagree, but then you agree.00:34
AStormwell, I do agree00:34
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AStormbut copyright can be longer, much longer than patent00:34
AStormit's nowhere as important as patents00:35
sneakretHmm... you're talking as if you know more about this than everyone else here.00:35
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, well, poke -community.00:35
AStormsneakret: see, copyright is on this exact product00:35
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, and get with ferenc00:35
AStormnot on a whole family of products00:35
sneakretAStorm: I know about copyright.00:35
sneakretI know about patent.00:35
AStormgood for you :)00:36
* lcuk burps00:36
GeneralAntillesNo, I know about copyright!!!! >:|00:36
sneakretYou're being pretty obnoxious.00:36
GeneralAntillesI'm sorry, what?00:36
sneakretYou're lecturing on stuff.00:36
AStormI have to stop being a preacher00:36
sneakretI say something, then you disagree, then you explain it as if I don't know about it, then you agree.00:36
sneakretSorry. Talking to AStorm.00:37
KotCzarnyit's a matter of dictionaries00:37
AStormsneakret: well, in case of copyrights, you're right00:37
KotCzarnyand explaining thoughts00:37
AStormbut in case of patents vs math, you were wrong :)00:37
sneakretI said "math can be copyrighted"00:37
sneakreter... patented00:37
KotCzarnyit's usually the cause of misunderstandngs00:37
AStormmath can't00:37
AStormalgorithms can00:37
sneakretAlgorithms are math.00:37
AStormalgorithms ) math00:37
sneakretThey fall within that space.00:37
sneakretI wasn't saying "all math can be patented"00:38
AStormwell, it sounded like that, you didn't qualify which part of math ;P00:38
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sneakretNo, I didn't.00:38
AStormthe default quantifier is "any"00:38
sneakretTo you, maybe.00:38
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AStormno, in math00:38
* lcuk pisses higher than KotCzarny 00:39
AStormor even, every00:39
sneakretIt might make sense for the default qualifier to be the one that makes sense.00:39
KotCzarnymath is more than algos00:39
KotCzarnylcuk: but i piss more freely00:39
AStormsneakret: well, math is about generalization00:39
KotCzarnymath is about modelling00:39
* lcuk drinks more and hits the ceiling of the chatroom00:39
AStormso there the default quantifier is "for every possible value of variables"00:40
sneakretAStorm: If I use "math" in a sentence, it doesn't mean00:40
AStormI think language should follow that rule too00:40
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AStorm(unless context suggest something else)00:40
sneakret... it doesn't mean my language is suddenly bound by mathematic conventions00:40
AStorm(and it didn't)00:40
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AStormso, again, we're at miscommunication ;P00:41
lcukwelcome to the internet.00:42
AStormheh... are there some free vector maps I could abuse?00:42
AStormthese are vector? excellent00:42
lcuki believe so yes00:42
sneakretso, regarding miscommunication... I've found that rather than looking for a way in which someone is wrong, it's more effective to look for a way to interpret what someone says so that it makes sense, then restate it for clarification.00:42
AStormI know they're missing much00:42
sneakretPeople don't go "Dude. You're being obnoxious."00:42
AStormsneakret: except sense is relative00:42
lcukbut advertising for them and using where practical makes for a better experience as others join in00:42
AStormthere's no "common" sense00:43
sneakretAStorm: Sure. That's why you restate it.00:43
sneakretI'm just saying... look for a way to agree rather than disagree.00:43
sneakretYou can reach the same conclusion.00:43
KotCzarnymath isn't relative00:43
KotCzarnyi think it's the only thing in universe (other than God) that isn't00:44
AStormif you remove notation from it, then definitely it's not :)00:44
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lcukmy mother in law isnt relative either (or i wish)00:44
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AStormKotCzarny: hard science isn't relative, hehe00:44
KotCzarnyhard science works on perceived world00:44
KotCzarnyand our ways to perceive are flunky00:44
KotCzarny=> relative00:44
mavhchas anyone tried to steal the vector maps from google maps instead of the tiles?00:46
* lcuk feels funky - mouth startin to throb agian00:46
KotCzarnylcuk, apply more anasthesia00:46
GeneralAntillesJeez, lcuk.00:46
lcukmavhc, i guess yo uare gonna try soon00:46
lcukim out of beer00:46
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AStormKotCzarny: well, hard is the non-relative part00:46
KotCzarnyany other anasthesia?00:46
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KotCzarnyastorm: still, you work on flunky data00:47
AStormor that relativity is very precisely described by laws (guess, physics)00:47
lcukonly hard coding00:47
KotCzarnylcuk: bats?00:47
AStormKotCzarny: flunky data is described by error laws00:47
GeneralAntilleslcuk, you know they sell stuff at the drug store for oral pain, right?00:47
AStormwhich is part of statistics, which is a branch of math00:48
KotCzarnydrugs + alco == bad things happen00:48
GeneralAntillesLocal anesthetic.00:48
AStormsome drugs, yes, NSAIDs and antibiotics00:48
KotCzarnyastorm: applied math00:48
AStormKotCzarny: pure too00:48
KotCzarnyif it involves statistical DATA, then not00:48
GeneralAntillesSomething like Orajel00:48
KotCzarnyalgos in statistics are pure00:49
AStormyes, then it's math applied to data00:49
AStormyou can say that something is true with a confidence interval of...00:49
lcukGeneralAntilles, yer but im a man - i have a god given right to moan and complain and not do anything about it :D00:49
AStorm(or in other words, with probability of...)00:49
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, suit yourself. :P00:49
lcukbesides it only hurts when i yawn for now00:50
KotCzarnyor eat?00:50
lcukhavin 3 hands a drill and a hoover in my mouth tents to strain it somewhat00:50
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lcuki had spag bol00:50
KotCzarnyspag bol?00:50
lcukspaghetti bolognese00:51
AStormhave a soup ;P00:51
KotCzarnyi haven't eaten spaghetti for a long time00:52
lcukim good at sucking00:52
lcuk(thats another quote people will take out of context)   it only hurts when i have to open my mouth wide00:52
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lcuklol jaffa - why have you got "sucking" as a highlight thing.  you only stopped lurkin when i mentioned it :P00:53
AStormlcuk: fearing double entendre?00:53
lcukwouldnt be the first time in here00:53
Jaffalcuk: coincidence, I brought back up my screen session to set something downloading with wget00:54
sneakretlcuk: I thought "it only hurts when I yawn" was a pretty funny followup to your comment about having the right to complain and do nothing about it. It was kinda the ultimate expression of apathy.00:54
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lcukit should settle down soon, at least i can talk now00:55
sneakretI can't hear you!00:55
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lcukput your ear closer to the monitor then00:55
sneakretHaha. That's stuck in my head too.00:56
KotCzarnywe will kick out those dirty licences00:56
sneakretIt's so bad it's catchy!00:56
tlacuachelooking for advice for the best lightweight http server for n800/os2008/diablo. had apache, but it's really overkill for what i need. i've read about thttpd, but can't seem to find it for os200800:56
* Jaffa had to do a quick Google after reading a couple of bits from Russell T. Davies' book which the Times printed last week whilst we were in Berlin; including some stuff about the Christmas Special (Doctor Who)00:57
lcukcool jaffa00:57
KotCzarnythttpd ?00:57
lcukthat reminds me, i got nivens latest book00:57
lcukit was meant to come in time for the summit, but arrived a couple of hours after i setoff00:57
KotCzarnylighttpd could work too00:57
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lcukjaffa - did they print extracts or could you get the book itself?00:59
lcukmind you, it was the times, it probably had the hardback included00:59
* lcuk rememebers those hefty bastards from bein a paperboy00:59
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sneakretAs far as I can tell, there aren't any downloadable builds of lighttpd or thttpd for os200801:01
KotCzarnywanna bin?01:02
KotCzarnyi think it compiles cleanly01:02
sneakretI think tlacuache would appreciate it.01:02
tlacuacheyeah, that's what i found01:02
tlacuachecouldn't find a build for 200801:03
sneakrettlacuache: Sounds like KotCzarny is volunteering to provide you with one.01:03
tlacuachethat'd be sweet01:03
KotCzarnybut compiling will be good for you01:03
KotCzarnyas it's a trivial task01:03
tlacuachei've not cross-compiled for my tablet yet, i'm afraid.01:03
KotCzarnyunpack, ./configure, make01:04
sneakretAh. Once you have a build enviromnent.01:04
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sneakretGetting the build environment set up isn't  trivial.01:04
KotCzarnythat one is a matter of running one script01:04
KotCzarnyat least was for me01:04
sneakretOh yeah?01:04
sneakretEnlighten me.01:05
KotCzarnydownloads and installs everything01:05
KotCzarnythat was around april though01:05
KotCzarnydon't know if the complicated things in diablo sdk01:05
jottyou could even use the vmware image if you don't have linux running :)01:05
Jaffalcuk: two extracts; book's supposed to be good. Lots of interesting behind-the-scenes stuff: it a series of emails between RTD and the co-writer01:05
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JaffaAlmost blog-like01:06
KotCzarnythere is a script01:06
jottna, it's always trivial. at least  if you use the right distribution :)01:06
KotCzarnyjott: worked in slackware :)01:06
lcukjaffa, cool i may have to check it out01:06
sneakretSeems like it wasn't trivial in ubuntu when I did it.01:06
sneakretIt wasn't extremely painful though.01:06
jottubuntu/debian couldn't be easier.01:06
sneakretHook me up!01:07
jottit was made for ubuntu/debian. :/01:07
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jottjust read the 3 step manual :)01:07
sneakretMaybe the doc I found was overcomplicated.01:07
sneakretMaybe I WILL!01:07
KotCzarnythat's what you get for giving clicky-shiny ui for the people!01:07
sneakretI think maybe the doc I found was trying to set up too much other crap.01:07
KotCzarnymaybe you just tried to follow manual install chapter01:07
mavhcmy n810 diablo just asked me to update canola, but then said it can't find python2.5-terra, am I missing a repo?01:08
sneakretCould be.01:08
KotCzarnyinstead of 'automatic install' one01:08
KotCzarnymanual install is indeed longer01:08
GeneralAntillesmavhc, ignore it or disable Extra-devel.01:08
jotti mean it boils down to run "" as root and "" as user01:08
KotCzarnygood to know how it works01:08
handful_mahvc do you have extras-devel01:08
KotCzarnybut then automatic script is just doing all those steps in a script01:09
jotteven the vsdo stuff should show up in the script....01:09
jottso you won't have to look it up01:09
GeneralAntillesAhaha. The Canola flickr plugin is _awesome_.01:09
sneakretGA: Oh yeah?01:09
handful_GeneralAntilles: I was so happy about that :)01:09
sneakretGood to hear!01:09
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* GeneralAntilles browses handful_'s Summit photos.01:10
mavhchandful_: yes, should I not?01:10
sneakretOh. I know what was wrong with the installation instructions. It didn't define the components.01:10
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GeneralAntillesmavhc, just ignore it.01:11
GeneralAntillesIt's a false alarm. ;)01:11
handful_mavhc: yes.. you shouldnt.. because cabnoola beta10 is bening uploaded01:11
handful_we are fighting01:11
sneakretit just assumes you know what scratchbox is, etc.01:11
handful_against segfaults :)01:11
GeneralAntillesExtras-devel is fine in general, though.01:11
jottthose are install instructions. read it up elsewhere if you want to know :/01:12
KotCzarnythere is a script for scratchbox install too01:12
mavhcso just ignore the errors if I have it enabled?01:12
sneakretjott: I understand that the information is available. :)01:12
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sneakretbut a summary sentence would also be cool01:13
jottfile a bug.01:13
GeneralAntilleshandful_, what are you shooting with? The close up of that wooden motorcycle model looks really nice.01:13
GeneralAntillesmavhc, yes, just ignore it for now.01:14
jottbut still. those are installation instructions. you should know what you want to install ;)01:14
sneakretI haven't actually done any NIT development yet, and I'm not familiar with the tools. Where should I start?01:14
handful_ah the pictures?01:14
jottsneakret: maemo reference manual?01:14
sneakretHow to I learn what I want to install? :)01:14
handful_it's the cheapest canon01:14
handful_the rebel xti01:14
handful_I am a noob :)O01:14
* GeneralAntilles also has an XTi.01:14
GeneralAntillesJust got on the DSLR train a few months ago.01:15
GeneralAntillesIt's a wonderful thing. :D01:15
crashanddieX-Fade, HALP01:15
handful_I need to learn, then I will buy some lenses01:15
lcukdoes anyone know how i can recover my "Project admin" position on liqbase.  ermmmm at some point in time i appear to have demoted myself :S01:16
GeneralAntilles50mm f/1.4 and a 50-250mm IS (or the 70-300mm if you want to splurge).01:16
sneakretjott: Thanks for pointing me at the maemo reference manual. That was seriously the piece of information I was missing.01:16
GeneralAntillesThe bundled 18-55mm really sucks.01:16
lcuk<<<< fail01:16
crashanddieWord, meet lcuk:
GeneralAntilleslcuk, did you ever upgrade me? :P01:17
lcuklol you are listed higher than me \@/01:17
* Jaffa sleeps01:17
* lcuk wonders when you are releasing the new version :P01:17
sneakretThe 50mm f/1.4 is pretty pricey. I settled for the f/1.801:18
sneakretLess than a third as much money01:18
GeneralAntillessneakret, yeah, a _lot_ cheaper01:18
GeneralAntillesBut you do pay for it. ;)01:18
lcukcrashanddie, its no hassle for now - at least now the issue is known i can wait until monday and have a go and cleanup the package myself01:18
GeneralAntilleslcuk, you'll probably need X-Fade or ferenc to fix it for you.01:18
lcukyer i know01:18
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crashanddiemore x-fade than ferenc01:19
sneakretWell, I also got the 70-300mm01:19
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sneakretor something close to that. Now I have to check.01:19
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GeneralAntillessneakret, worst thing about the 1.8 is the 5-blade aperture.01:21
sneakretI lied. I got a 28-75mm01:21
sneakretThe 70-300 is on my wish list though!01:21
GeneralAntillesLenses are the worst01:22
GeneralAntillesYou'd think the camera would be the real investment01:22
sneakretNot sure what 5-blade aperture is.01:22
GeneralAntillesbut, nooo, it's all the damn lenses you have to buy.01:22
sneakretYeah, the camera ends up being cheap in the long run. :)01:22
sneakretI assume it means the shutter only has 5 blades01:23
GeneralAntillessneakret, look at the images here:
GeneralAntillesRuins the bokeh.01:23
sneakretbut I don't know how that translates to photos01:23
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GeneralAntillesBlurred lights in the background.01:23
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sneakretI see.01:23
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sneakretFor me, it was the f/1.8 or no 50mm.01:24
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sneakretOf course, I have the 28-75mm, so maybe no 50mm would've been okay.01:25
sneakretI didn't know what I was doing when I chose my lenses.01:25
GeneralAntillesNah, 50mm is a fantastic lens01:25
GeneralAntillesthe type of lens you can take into a dark party and shoot without a flash.01:25
sneakretIt's been nice.01:25
GeneralAntillesVery fast01:25
sneakretI refer to it as my Christmas Morning lens.01:26
sneakret(Great for taking pictures on Christmas morning.)01:26
sneakretI haven't had it on a Christmas morning yet though.01:26
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GeneralAntillesI really want to get a macro lens01:27
sneakretI've been loving mine.01:28
* lcuk wonders if hes ok to drink n code01:29
* lcuk backs up first01:29
KegetysI just got extension tubes, works ok for macro and very cheap :)01:29
KotCzarnylcuk, yeah, backup01:29
lcuklol - i had an "experience" recently kot whilst you were afk and I somehow managed to add a bug somewhere01:30
KotCzarnycoding while intoxicated is very damaging to the code01:30
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sneakretThat's for sure.01:30
lcukbut theres a ballmer threshhold01:31
KotCzarnybut it's only for pros01:31
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KotCzarnyi know01:32
* lcuk is mostly amateur and writes sloppy code 01:32
Luriammmm nikon 105/2 ftw01:32
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oysdid anyone record video of the varioes Maemo Summit talks?01:49
GeneralAntillesYes, a few people01:49
GeneralAntillesAri's talk and the dev session are already up.01:50
oysGeneralAntilles: I saw a few of them.. but I was wondering if someone had collected links to everything01:50
GeneralAntillesMost of them have been mentioned on Planet.01:51
oysI found a great list of torrents from the CCC and it's nice for us students that don't have time/money to travel01:52
oysGeneralAntilles: I'll have another read-through and keep my eyes open01:52
GeneralAntillesThey'll probably be aggregated on the wiki at some point.01:53
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oysGeneralAntilles: that would be nice.. it was what I was looking for01:54
GAN800Feel free to bug maemo-community about it.01:55 is down, if not, I'd start it myself.. maybe later01:56
GAN800It's up01:56
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oysGAN800: I still can't get to load. I can connect, send my request, and then recieve no response02:14
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Andy80oys: it often happens to me too02:22
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AStormok, does anyone have that fork of maemo-mapper available for diablo, or anything new?02:23
AStormbecause gdbm is horrible02:23
AStormesp. the fact that mapper has to copy the whole db to compact it02:23
Andy80AStorm: why a fork? I'm not updated about this news... sorry..02:23
KotCzarnyhtm, isn't mm using sqlite?02:23
AStormAndy80: ITT one02:24
AStormKotCzarny: it's using gdbm02:24
AStormI found something by chance02:24
Andy80AStorm: what are the main differences?02:24
AStormit's more efficient and easier to manage02:25
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AStormand doesn't kill mmc as fast02:26
AStorm2.2.mod.1 :>02:26
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AStormfor some reason, no one even tried to include these mods to mainline02:27
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KotCzarnyastorm, nice find02:28
AStormforward port should be fairly easy02:28
AStormbecause changes between 2.2, 2.3 and 2.4 were mostly cosmetic02:29
KotCzarnywhy not contacting author directly?02:29
KotCzarnyremoving memory cache is nice too02:29
KotCzarnyas it's slowing down everything and even crashing the app02:30
KotCzarny(system needed to close blabla)02:30
AStormoh, gnuite not liky02:31
AStormthey had a talk long time ago and mapper is still worse than this modded 2.202:31
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KotCzarnyThe MM2.2 Mod 1 includes all the features up to official MM2.3.1 release,02:32
AStormyes, why not :)02:33
AStormtrick is, that for some reason mapper is friggin slow after I downloaded 0,6 GB of maps02:33
AStormit takes a long time to find them, which means gdbm is to blame02:34
AStormpure ext3+htrees is faster02:34
AStorm(and that is not stellar as far as dbs are concerned)02:35
AStormext2+htrees should be faster still02:36
AStormfor some reason, I'm probably overflowing gdbm's hash tables02:36
AStormor at least they're not cached in memory and have to be read in every time02:36
AStormI put the maps on immc02:37
AStormso it's entirely uncompressed02:37
AStormI'll contact the author later and see if we can devise a solution02:38
KotCzarnydamn dhl.02:39
AStormseems there is some cache02:39
AStormbut it might be just pure filesystem cache of the kernel02:39
AStorm(closest zoom levels of a location are cached)02:40
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Andy80AStorm: is this version "maemo-mapper_2.2.mod.1-os2008_armel.deb" valid for os2008 DIABLO?02:55
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AStormno idea03:06
AStormbtw, how can I export a google maps route to mapper?03:06
AStormthe default planning in mapper uses Google, but allows only two points... and no inter-routes03:06
AStormalternatively, how can I merge routes?03:07
GAN800It's just gpx03:07
GAN800You can append as many routes as you want to the end of the route.03:08
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KotCzarny16gb sd micro03:09
KotCzarnyby sandisk03:10
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KotCzarnywell, sdhc micro03:10
derfYeah, I've heard "will be shipping" before.03:10
AStormGAN800: I know it's gpx...03:11
KotCzarnywill ship in October.03:11
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KotCzarnysoon we will know03:11
AStormbut, how do I export a route from google maps ;P03:11
AStormalternatively, how do I append to the route03:11
derfWake me when we know.03:11
KotCzarnyastorm: rip it with a knife03:11
AStorm(it seems that route download option fails on second time too ;P )03:12
KotCzarnyonlt class 2 though03:12
AStorm(as in, mapper dies)03:13
Jsn0327could someone suggest a good video converter from avi to something the n810 can play well?03:14
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infoboti guess mediautils is
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mdgDoes the 770 with a 512 MB rs-mmc running hackeros2007 store downloaded software on the memory card?03:22
GeneralAntillesOnly if you're booting from it.03:23
mdgis it better to boot from the mmc?03:24
GeneralAntillesCan be.03:24
KotCzarnymore capacity03:24
KotCzarnymore fun03:24
KotCzarnyand you can have few cards with different oses03:24
Jsn0327what is the latest version of maemo?03:25
KotCzarnydiablo, but not for 77003:25
KotCzarnyi think03:25
Jsn0327is it past the first official release of diablo? for the n81003:26
mdgdoes it need to be formatt/what partitions/what size?03:26
GeneralAntilles~release-history is
infobotokay, GeneralAntilles03:26
AStormhmm, now it didn't die03:27
AStormsomething must've happened then ;>03:27
mdgthe 770 has 64 mb built in ram right?03:27
KotCzarny(damn dhl)03:28
mdgbut I could partition my 512 mb card and have more room for programs and such right?03:29
KotCzarnymdg what has ram to do with partitions?03:29
mdgI don't know?03:29
KotCzarnyand it shows03:29
Jsn0327GeneralAntilles thanks03:30
AStormmapper could use some optical zoom (not just double pixels)03:30
AStormotherwise most maps are too small to read when using a car for instance03:30
mdgI meant the memory card that came with the 770 was 64 mb?03:30
AStormand double-pixel is ugly, also only 100% zoom :>03:30
AStormsome simple bicubic filter would be enough03:31
GeneralAntillesTurn off pixel doubling, then. . . .03:31
AStormthen the map is too small!03:31
AStormI mean, roads are03:31
GeneralAntillesIncrease the zoom level.03:31
KotCzarnyget a bigger map ?03:31
AStormGeneralAntilles: zoom 4 is not enough even03:31
AStormthe road is very thing03:31
KotCzarnyget a bigger road?03:31
GeneralAntillesVery blind?03:31
AStormno, the n810 is located about 0.5m from the driver03:32
AStormor more03:32
KotCzarnymount hud projector?03:32
AStormharhar... funny03:32
KotCzarnybut how nice of an idea03:32
AStormthis is a major lack of feature03:32
KotCzarnyisn't it?03:32
AStormyes, but how do I wire it to n810? ;P03:32
AStormalso, expensive03:33
GeneralAntillesBuy a Beagle and build a carputer.03:33
AStormwhile software scaling is free (excluding CPU time)03:33
KotCzarnyremember that video where they used n8x0 for presentation?03:33
AStormthat was USB03:33
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AStormno HUD does this03:33
AStormsimple stupid bicubic scaler would be good and fast enough03:33
AStormwhy isn't that implemented? ;P03:34
KotCzarnyask author?03:34
AStormI will suggest such a feature03:34
AStormmaybe even implement it03:34
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AStormbut, pity no one did it earlier03:34
AStormit is a must-have03:34
KotCzarnyno o ne needed probably03:34
AStormdouble px is almost ok at that range03:34
AStormbut looks pixelated obviously ;P03:35
KotCzarnyi'm shortsighted anyway03:35
AStormuhm, in a car?03:35
AStormif you were that shortsighted, you wouldn't be able to read a printed map03:35
AStormtrick is, with this high DPI the screen has... the maps are about 1/4 the original size (on my laptop)03:36
AStormwrong, 1/303:36
AStormno, scale the maps03:36
AStormx3 to get actual 1:1 vs an 85 dpi screen03:37
AStormor close to it03:37
KotCzarnysdl pixel doubling?03:37
AStormthere is pixel doubling, but it's not true scaling03:37
AStorm== looks horrible03:37
KotCzarnyi mean sdl uses hardware chip to double pixels03:38
KotCzarnywell, scale03:38
AStormhmmmm, interesting03:38
AStormthat could be useful, although I don't know how to do that03:38
KotCzarnybut it changes whole screen res03:38
AStormand mapper doesn't use SDL for display03:38
mdganyone else here a noob too or all you all old pros?03:38
KotCzarnyand hw chip scales it to fs03:38
AStormah, so unusable03:38
KotCzarnymdg: mixed03:38
KotCzarnyastorm: not really, useful03:39
AStormyes, but not in this case03:39
KotCzarnyfull screen -> 400x24003:39
KotCzarnyand you are done03:39
AStormbecause mapper is not necessarily fullscreen03:39
AStormand doesn't even use SDL03:39
KotCzarnybut it supports going to fs03:39
AStormI'd have to rewrite it more or less03:39
AStormyes, but uses GTK then03:39
KotCzarnyi don't know if it's sdl or x1103:39
KotCzarnyone of them03:40
AStormit's GTK03:40
AStormwhatever gtk uses03:40
AStorm(most likely x11 ;P )03:40
AStormso, I'll have to do the scaling manually, in asm03:40
KotCzarnynot that hard03:41
AStormmaybe in C first, bicubic scaler is simple enough though to try it in asm03:41
KotCzarnyyou can probably steal mplayer code03:41
AStormmaybe, depends on the format03:41
AStormI'll get a GTK canvas, from which I can get context03:42
AStormactually, not03:42
AStormI get an unpacked PNG03:42
AStormor jpg03:42
AStormor whatever format is that03:42
AStormthen scale as usual03:42
AStormcode is a bit messy03:43
AStormanyway, I'll contact gnuite first03:43
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mdgI found directions at the wiki for extending the rootfs on the 770  - any extra tips?03:50
mdganyone with experience with ext2 vs ext3 on the MMC - which is better?03:56
KotCzarnyi have ext3 on sd03:56
KotCzarnystill works03:56
KotCzarnydon't know about 770 and mmc03:56
mdgsorry, got lazy typing rs-mmc03:57
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KotCzarnymmc equals rs-mmc03:57
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mdgI guess all I need is the "become root" package03:58
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mdgwhere did you find your rs-mmc?  Amazon?04:05
KotCzarnyi have n80004:05
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KotCzarnybut froogle is nice too04:05
KotCzarny512mb rs-mmc for a 7.7504:06
KotCzarnyunless it's a lemon04:06
KotCzarnyquite nice price04:06
mdg$7.75?  That is quite inexpensive!04:07
KotCzarnyassuming seller is not a thief04:08
KotCzarnyotherwise, no04:08
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mdgcan you find it in stores?04:10
KotCzarnydon't know04:11
KotCzarnygoogle for it in big stores04:11
KotCzarnyamazon would work too04:11
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mdgsearches are mostly bringing up card readers04:12
mdgwonder if I would have any luck at the local camera store04:13
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mdgwhat size would you recommend - 1 gig?04:16
KotCzarnydon't know, probably the more the merrier04:16
mdgI have 512 card now  - would it get some good basics?04:17
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KotCzarnyhow about second hand n800?04:19
mdgI wish!   But bills come first right now04:19
KotCzarny100? 150$ ?04:20
mdgused n800 for $100-150?  where?04:20
mdgI don't know if I can trust craigslist04:21
KotCzarnyit's for hand to hand dealing04:21
KotCzarnyso you can check the device at the spot04:21
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KotCzarnyn810 for 22504:22
KotCzarnyand to be honest i got mine n800 for a 150 in march04:22
mdgfrom craigslist?04:23
mdgI'll think about it.  This 770 has to be good for something though04:23
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KotCzarnysd has 2 full sd slots04:24
KotCzarnywink, wink04:24
KotCzarnyi mean n800 has 2 full sd slots04:24
mdgI think I saw you can use flash/thumb/jump drives (whatever you prefer to call them) with the n80004:25
KotCzarnyyes, usb works both ways on n8x004:25
KotCzarnyas long power is sufficient04:25
mdgsounds nicer!04:26
KotCzarnyyes, i like my n80004:27
mdgis a hackers 2009 in the works?04:27
KotCzarnydon't know, unfortunatelly i haven't got 77004:27
mdgwould you like one?04:27
KotCzarnywell, i wanted 770 at first04:28
KotCzarnythen i have found that n800 on cl04:28
KotCzarnyand should suit me for some time :)04:28
mdgI've heard the n800 is better than the n810?04:29
KotCzarnydepends on user04:29
KotCzarnyif you prefer big storage, then n800 is the winner04:29
KotCzarnyn810 has keyboard, gps, and nicer look04:29
mdgn800 only has touchscreen keyboard?04:29
KotCzarnyor bt04:30
mdgdo you have bt keyboard?04:30
KotCzarnyalso from cl04:30
mdgis yours a foldable keyboard?04:30
KotCzarnyigo ultra slim model04:30
mdgso n800 and bt keyboard would fit in a day planner?04:31
KotCzarnythey are roughly the same size04:31
KotCzarnyn800 and that kb04:31
mdgdoes the keyboard feel generally sturdy?04:32
KotCzarnyit's not as stable as my laptop04:32
KotCzarnybut generally does it's work04:32
mdgI'm leaning toward an apple bt keyboard, but it might be a bit much to haul around04:33
mdgon the other hand - those laptops can get so heavy!04:33
KotCzarnymine is 12", 3lbs04:33
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KotCzarnyless than inch thick04:33
mdgoh, you have an Eee pc?04:34
KotCzarnythinkpad x4004:34
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mdgsolid state harddrive?04:34
KotCzarny2x cf04:34
KotCzarnywith ide-cf adapter04:34
KotCzarnyhi ssvb04:34
mdgwhat os is it running?04:34
KotCzarnylinux, of course04:34
mdgwhich distro?04:35
KotCzarnyssvb: do you still hack mplayer?04:35
KotCzarnymdg: slackware04:35
ssvbKotCzarny: not much04:35
KotCzarnyssvb: lack of time or ideas?04:35
mdgdid you install slackware or came already installed?04:35
KotCzarnymdg: i'm a geek04:35
KotCzarnyi just use the same os since my first install of slackware 8.004:36
mdgoh, so you installed it04:36
KotCzarnyjust swapping from pc to pc04:36
mdgever tried Mint?04:36
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KotCzarnyslackware suits me04:36
KotCzarnydon't need anything else :)04:36
mdghackers are supposed to be adventurous?04:37
KotCzarnyi'm a slacker04:37
ssvbKotCzarny: I mostly switched to low level codecs optimizations, packaging and providing releases is not so fun04:37
KotCzarnyssvb: ahm, anyone stepped up in your place?04:38
ssvbit would be nice to have someone to pass this job to him04:39
KotCzarnyi assume that means 'no'04:40
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mdghow do you change the time from 24 hour to 12 hour in the statusbar?04:44
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DsnyeHappy Friday!04:46
Dsnyeer...unless it's already Saturday for you..04:47
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Jsn0327how do you update the n810 to diablo?04:57
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KotCzarnyyou can simply install .debs04:57
KotCzarnyand hit upgrade04:57
KotCzarnyor flash whole sys04:58
KotCzarnyand hit upgrade04:58
Jsn0327i want to flash the whole system04:58
infobotFast and efficient NNTP newsfeeder software. URL:, or a better link-time optimizer. More information can be found at
infobotsomebody said firmware was hardware that is beginning to melt  Firmware for GrandStream phones is at
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, maemo is a development platform to create applications for Nokia 770 Internet Tablet and other maemo compliant handheld devices in the future.
infobotfrom memory, flashing is
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dick-richardsonanyone using gizmo?05:02
mdgwhat's gizmo?05:02
dick-richardsonlike skype05:02
dick-richardsonit's supposed to allow sms for free, but I can't figure it out05:03
KotCzarnynothing is free05:03
dick-richardsonthat's what I'm starting to wonder05:03
dick-richardsonthat's a separate site05:04
KotCzarnywell, maybe that's how they implemented it05:04
dick-richardsongoogletalk can send text messages?05:04
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mdgnight all!  Thanks for all the help!05:14
KotCzarnynite nite05:14
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Jsn0327to flash the n810 with the nokia internet tablet updater, it says to turn the tablet off, connect the usb cable to it and the computer, then press and hold the "switch button."  Are they talking about the application swap button on the front to the left of the screen?  I held it down for a long time and it never came on.05:48
GeneralAntillesIt says swap, doesn't it?05:49
Jsn0327nevermind.  i didn't see where it said to hold the power switch at the same time05:49
Jsn0327yeah i meant swap button05:50
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KotCzarnymore verizon users than optimumonline ones05:59
KotCzarnyare oo users ipod slaves?06:00
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Jsn0327is there a way to add wpa2 compatibility to diablo?06:04
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GeneralAntillesAdd it?06:09
GeneralAntillesWe've had WPA2 support since the 770. . . .06:09
Jsn0327GeneralAntilles: it isn't an option when setting up a new connection06:10
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GeneralAntillesWell, I'm using WPA2 on 3 tablets.06:10
GeneralAntillesDon't know what to tell you.06:10
Jsn0327in control panel, connections, add new connection, after you name the connection the next screen allows you to select a security mode.  the options are WEP, WPA PSK, and WPA with EAP06:11
Jsn0327no wpa206:11
GeneralAntillesWhy are you adding a connection?06:11
GeneralAntillesJust connect to it.06:11
Jsn0327because my ssid is hidden06:11
Jsn0327your assistance would be greatly appreciated : )06:12
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Jareduheya guys :)06:51
KotCzarnyfirefox 3.0.306:57
KotCzarnythat was fast, lol06:58
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acydlord_aaoi'm only running 3.0.1 on here06:59
KotCzarny3.0.2 was out on sep 2207:00
KotCzarny3.0.3 on sep 2607:00
KotCzarnywonder what they fsckd up07:00
acydlord_aaothe eula? =x07:00
KotCzarnyi think more than that07:00
KotCzarnyit was hungy for me since i updated to 3.0.207:01
KotCzarny# Fixed a problem where users were unable to retrieve saved passwords or save new passwords (bug 454708)07:01
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Jsn0327is skype able to stream video on the IT yet?07:05
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RST38hKot: Btw who won the debate yesterday?08:42
KotCzarnyi don't watch tv08:42
RST38hDid they get to a fistfight?08:42
RST38hNeither do I but still...08:42
KotCzarnyi guess you can check on cnn08:42
RST38hfound it:
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* moontiger waves hello08:45
moontigerdoes anybody know how to get the sb2 anjuta toolchain working? it updated today and now it's broken :(08:46
RST38hwell, I use sb208:48
RST38hnot using Eclipse though.08:48
moontigeranjuta not eclipse08:49
moontigerthe anjuta plugin worked fine until today08:49
moontigernow it gives a bunch of wierd error messages08:49
moontigerand fails08:49
RST38hplugin for what?08:50
KotCzarnyprobably first one is the cause08:50
moontigeranjuta for building maemo c apps with gtk+08:53
moontigerthnx KotCzarny ;)08:54
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KotCzarnyi hate dhl.08:59
ProteousI hate DHS09:00
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RST38hMaemo uses GTK+ by default. Does not need plugins.09:00
KotCzarnymaybe it was some templating thingy09:01
KotCzarnylike guile09:01
Proteoussome sort of sonic boom09:01
* GeneralAntilles throws Proteous across the room at the speed of sound.09:01
* Proteous charges back for 2 seconds then presses forward and fierce09:02
* KotCzarny yawns09:02
KotCzarnytea time09:02
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KotCzarnythat's also a trigger09:08
KotCzarnythat's just perv09:08
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KotCzarnyCptTablet ?09:09
lcuk810my throat thing haspopped out everywhere09:11
Proteousthat sounds gross09:12
lcuk810it feels wworse09:12
KotCzarnyneeds more didinfectant?09:13
GAN800Call your dentist? :p09:13
lcuk810heh  just flu09:13
KotCzarnybetter upp the code09:13
KotCzarnybefore it's gone09:13
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lcuk810heh thats nothurti this mornin thank fsck09:13
KotCzarnygrammar unit gone?09:14
KotCzarnyyou have keyboard09:15
GAN800That's not an excuse.09:15
lcuk810q finger 90deg curled up in bed09:15
KotCzarnyupp the code09:15
KotCzarnyphysical coordination going buh-bay09:15
lcuk810its been on ftp for a while09:16
KotCzarnylast one is from june09:16
KotCzarnyunless name/server has changed09:16
lcuk810try again09:16
KotCzarnystill june09:16
lcuk810no correct folder, should be _www_jpeg suffix09:17
KotCzarnyliqbase_www_jpeg_20080920_114317_at summit.tar.gz ?09:17
lcuk810sounds kinda reasonable since the summit was last week09:18
KotCzarnyset your ftp to sort by date09:18
KotCzarnyor move old files to old/09:18
lcuk810get a client that works09:18
KotCzarnywhat? it works09:19
KotCzarnyalthough could use some configuration options09:19
lcuk810windows explorer lets me sort, you arent gonna let ms win are you?09:19
KotCzarnyapparently yes09:20
KotCzarnybut your date is b0rken09:20
KotCzarnyor maybe not09:20
lcuk810mmm yes i have noticed09:20
KotCzarnyfirst time noticed i can sort by headers09:21
lcuk810heh you learn somethin new everyday09:21
lcuk810or in maemo worl-d, its 10 things09:21
KotCzarnygah. that bacon looks perverted09:22
moontigerdoes anyone know what the --host-tools option actually means?09:23
KotCzarnyprobably to use host tools09:23
GAN800^ canine09:23
moontigergeeee really KotCzarny? thnx for that09:23
KotCzarnymoontiger: :)09:24
moontigera 4 eyed smily09:25
* moontiger laughs09:25
KotCzarny"what i hate about n800 headphones": cannot be used with other equipment without pushing the button all the time09:26
KotCzarnyis what they call 'vendor lock in' ?09:26
KotCzarny*is it09:27
Proteous"what i hate about KotCzarny": always complaining about the n800 headphones09:27
KotCzarny'always' ?09:27
KotCzarnydefine 'always'09:27
Proteousall the time!!09:27
moontigerreally? arent they just ordinary headphones?09:27
KotCzarnynot true09:27
lcuk810pet peeve09:27
KotCzarnymoontiger: you need to push the button or it shorts the some pins09:28
KotCzarnyand in effect giving you delta-headphones effec09:28
lcuk810did i miss anyfin whilst emptying sinuses09:28
moontigerwow what a great design09:28
KotCzarnylcuk, nope09:28
moontigerlcuk, that sounds great ... thnx for sharing ;)09:28
ProteousI hope you saved your snot for mucas transfusuions09:28
lcuk810lol the headphones work in mono with no button and other chan is 10% of nomal (ish)09:29
KotCzarnypush the button09:29
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lcuk810apt-get install snot09:29
* KotCzarny wrapped some rubber band over the button09:29
moontigerhell yeah!! it works again :)09:29
lcuk810yer i know!!! it was on laptop09:29
moontigermore like apt-get remove snot no?09:30
KotCzarnywho was on the laptop?09:30
KotCzarnyand whose laptop09:30
lcuk810who mentioned bacon, my desktop is goin mental but i cant quite see09:30
KotCzarnyfull bacon alchemist09:30
lcuk810moontiger,the morei remove the more appears09:31
Proteous bacon glassess09:31
KotCzarnyremove the bacon09:31
moontigerwow dude you have a snot virus09:31
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lcuk810well bacon warning signal09:31
lcuk810oh noes09:31
KotCzarnybacon calling09:31
moontigerit it morning where you guys are?09:31
KotCzarnymilk + bacon?09:31
lcuk810yer actually09:32
KotCzarnyrecipe for a fail09:32
lcuk810he brings loads of goodies09:32
moontigerwhere bouts in england are you lcuk ?09:32
lcuk810no, full dairy service09:32
moontigerayyyyyyyy by gum!09:32
* lcuk810 gets eggs n bacon n milk just when needed on a weekend mornin09:33
* KotCzarny yawns09:33
moontigercup of tea with the eggs and bacon huh?09:33
lcuk810ewww no09:33
* moontiger is going to bed soon09:33
moontigerfresh coffee at least yes?09:35
moontigernot that instant crap09:35
KotCzarnyinstant crap09:35
* moontiger laughs09:36
KotCzarnynow you can cram instantly!09:36
moontiger<--- brushing teeth09:36
KotCzarnyno more waiting or pushing!09:36
lcuk810err instant crap works, its like microsoft coffee09:36
KotCzarnywash and go!09:36
moontigerna ahhh... the ms campus has fresh coffee all day09:36
lcuk810i mean the same for everyone09:37
* moontiger is tired and a bit confused09:37
moontigerso its nescafe ur drinking?09:37
lcuk810that happens  often :p09:38
moontigereeeeeesh yuk09:38
* lcuk810 is a sheeple09:38
lcuk810actually im not drinkincos its too cold to get out of bed09:38
* lcuk810 sends a child on a mission09:39
* lcuk810 sends youngest to wake eldest, then sends eldest to brew up. what a plan!09:40
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moontigerreally? its cold there already?09:40
KotCzarnyin effect they will drink all the coffee09:40
KotCzarnyand you will get some tea09:40
moontigerit was 75+ here today and still its warm outside at 11.30pm09:40
lcuk810yer its chilly,09:40
KotCzarnyfor being last09:40
moontiger<--- drinks pg tips09:41
lcuk810what do you drink kot09:41
KotCzarnybut i'm already through09:41
praki'm trying to download the latest edition of the maemo os2008 (diablo_4.2008.30-2), but i'm having some trouble finding it09:41
prakdoes such an operating system binary file exist?09:41
infoboti heard flashing is
lcuk810prak what are you wanting toflash with? win/lin09:42
praklcuk810, win09:42
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praki'm flashing it onto my nokia n81009:42
lcuk810the flasher tool gets correct image itself09:42
prakthe flasher tool says i'm downgrading to an older version though09:43
prakhow would i upgrade it back to the newest version?09:43
lcuk810its a slight bug with the new updates thing, they released the patches after09:43
moontigerprak, update to the one it says then it will update itself09:44
lcuk810apparantly this is ok, and after flashing you will be re-updated09:44
lcuk810can some1 else confirm though09:44
prakupdating the os on the n810 right now09:44
moontigeri dont think the latest patch has made it into the base image09:44
moontigeri did that t mine last week and it worked fine09:44
infobotsomebody said ssu was
lcuk810the version the flasher gives, is that kernel? where does it get it from09:45
GAN800That's the build identifier of the whole FIASCO image.09:46
lcuk810ok, thanks :)09:46
lcuk810bbl guys, kot speak tonight m8 :)09:47
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prakthanks, my problem has been resolved09:50
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KotCzarnythey are after your diary10:04
KotCzarnydairy i mean10:04
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RST38hOh well, I am after their bacon...10:07
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KotCzarnyfricking pidgin-encryption requires nss/nspr installed10:09
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prak_is the only way of saving files on maemo os2008 on a n810 by saving the file through the usb cable on the host computer?10:54
* qwerty12 does a dirty trick to try out canola beta1010:54
KotCzarnyprak_: sshfs10:55
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prak_KotCzarny, why sshfs?10:59
KotCzarnyyou asked what other way10:59
qwerty12prak_, compile server for what method you want to use and use that. for ftp, compile proftpd etc. KotCzarny is right. why not sshfs? openssh is a proper port for the tablets.11:00
prak_i don't quite understand what you're talking about; i'm just trying to save a file on a browser11:01
qwerty12Ah, now that is simpler :P. You can use the built in browser to download files to a memory card or use wget/curl11:02
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prak_qwerty12, the thing is there is no right mouse button11:07
prak_not sure how to download the files11:07
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liriaside from the browser having a flash 9 plugin, if I have an swf, can I play it with some general purpose player and not using the browser?11:16
* qwerty12 thinks wtf:
qwerty12liri, I think only kmplayer lets you do that using the browser plugin. Or if you still have the tablet default getting started, replace the swf files for that11:17
GAN800qwerty12, go beat him with a stick.11:19
liriheh, yeah replacing the swf is awful11:20
GAN800That's actually really awesome in its own messed sort of way.11:20
qwerty12I love his instructions. "5. At the end, reboot the N810, the meamo of N810 will not work."11:20
KotCzarnyqwerty, you were n00b at some point too11:20
liriwell I was just thinking - there are many games in forms of flash widely available today so..11:20
KotCzarnydon't laugh at him for trying11:21
qwerty12KotCzarny, true but at least I didn't put around guides on how to fuck up the tablet11:21
KotCzarnyhehe, but you were reflashing11:21
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* GAN800 smells hypocrisy.11:22
KotCzarnybtw. is your flash still intact?11:22
qwerty12KotCzarny, Yer. I finally got a working setup and backed it up to an jffs2 file. Not a tarball ;)11:22
* qwerty12 still remembers that pointless argument :P11:22
KotCzarnyso it can take quite a many flash cycles11:23
KotCzarnyscratch 'a'11:23
qwerty12yeah. I think I flashed initfs 30 times in a row once :/11:23
KotCzarnyand it still works :)11:23
KotCzarnyyou should post about it to encourage more testing :)11:24
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qwerty12Not much people are into modifying initfs. I only started messing around with jffs2 images when I started shrinking the diablo initfs to be flashed on a chinook + diablo beta update.11:25
KotCzarnyi'm going to make something fluxbox based soon11:26
KotCzarnyi have one 128mb sd card i could kill freely11:26
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* qwerty12 has already killed cheapo 1gb sd with 48mhz kernel11:27
KotCzarnyi wonder if throwing most of the matchbox and maemo apps would help for a simple tasks like browsing etc11:27
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qwerty12Remove the old wiki already. I just used the search function on the maemo mediawiki and it so pwns the midgard crap :/11:29
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GAN800qwerty12, we'd have riots.11:32
qwerty12Arrgh :(11:32
GAN800cleanup meeting today at 19:00 utc if you want to discuss it.11:33
qwerty12I'm not a good debater :/11:33
GAN800Well, the rioters probably wont be attending.11:34
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qwerty12Has all the content from the old wiki been migrated to the new one? To me, the old wiki is like a derelict house whereas the new wiki is like the playboy mansion :P11:36
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GAN800The useful stuff11:37
GAN800Deleting pages doesn't seem to remove them from the google results stupidly enough. :/11:38
qwerty12Annoying :(. Let's do that stuff webmasters do by putting a load of hidden text on the bottom to bring the google rank up *g*11:39
GAN800I'm thinking it might be worthwhile migrating more stuff and just killing it outright.11:41
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qwerty12Agreed. The old wiki just looks so bad compared to the new one.11:42
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GAN800It makes no sense to have a wiki around that nobody can edit.11:43
GAN800The current situation is born of a weak compromise.11:43
qwerty12So true. You've done a brilliant job of keeping the content useful on the new wiki, the old wiki is a mess.11:45
mavhcsurely the old pages should be http redirected to the new pages, then google will be fine11:45
GeneralAntillesThere isn't really a 1:1 correlation.11:46
GeneralAntillesIt just needs to be deleted outright.11:46
KotCzarnythen redirect to index page of new wiki11:46
GeneralAntillesAnything salvageable needs to be moved over11:46
GeneralAntillesthen the old wiki needs to be deleted.11:46
mavhcbreaking urls is bad11:49
mavhcyou have pagerank for the old pages, use that to move the new pages into the same position11:50
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KotCzarnylcuk was here11:56
KotCzarnythat lurker11:56
lcuk810i am11:56
lcuk810but i was sortin breakfast11:56
KotCzarnyoh, here you are11:56
lcuk810and the desktop xchat gets a bug11:56
KotCzarnyi have compiled latest liqbase on x8611:56
KotCzarnybut colors aren't right11:57
KotCzarnyand i forgot what i did in the past to fix them11:57
lcuk810yer i noticed i think im flipping u and v11:57
KotCzarnynot to mention you have hardcoded dpi and res in many places11:57
KotCzarnygreen vs black11:57
lcuk810it ws enough to make me smile - my eyes are generally bw11:57
KotCzarnyis not flipping i think11:57
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KotCzarnyalso graffitiwall is cyan11:58
KotCzarnyand item borders in menu are orange11:58
KotCzarnyand none of the jpegs are loading even if prog finds them11:58
lcuk810heh - rainbow time11:58
KotCzarnywanna bin for your lappy?11:59
lcuk810i built it a few days ago myself11:59
lcuk810hold on11:59
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lcuki try not to power the laptop up - as ive got no touch - its still in the bag from the summit12:00
KotCzarnyshould work in vmware i guess12:01
lcuknot sure, ill clear off the laptop spot later12:03
KotCzarnyso, any idea where to look for that green?12:03
KotCzarnyie. what values in uv space are green?12:03
lcukgreen is U=0, v=012:03
KotCzarnyand black?12:03
lcukblack is technically 128,128 - but this device allows 0,0 - which explains the diffs12:05
lcuki wassending data to 0 when doing the alpha stuff and finding it was coming out as midrange12:05
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AStormKotCzarny: did anyone write a polish text synthesis for flite?12:36
KotCzarnydon't know12:36
AStormI remember some being done for festival12:36
KotCzarnylast time i had fun with text synthesis on a50012:36
KotCzarnyphonetic fun12:36
KotCzarnyto be exact12:36
AStormflite works it seems12:38
AStormstumbles funny on our street names12:39
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AStormtried to read "Generala Leopolda Okulickiego"12:39
AStormnah, sounded like a polish american, quite well even12:40
AStormrules to read american english are usually simple12:41
AStormneed only a tiny bit of spellbook guidance12:41
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AStormwell, time to first lock this time was 3 minutes (truly first on a fresh device) in a building, by a window12:48
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KotCzarnymaybe satellite is going down12:49
qwerty12~curse libusb12:49
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, libusb !12:49
AStormoh no, you wished for bugs!12:49
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Luriahi all13:01
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AStormhello, and bye ;>13:02
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RST38h~curse mips assembly13:12
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, mips assembly !13:12
KotCzarny  |> plastik/01-Prodigy-Firestarter-EmpirionMix.mp3.13:12
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* qwerty12_1 curses as 0xFFFF windows compile crashes when actually connecting to the device13:19
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KotCzarnycursing day today?13:19
qwerty12Unfortunatly, I have picked up the habit of swearing at least 10 times a day13:20
KotCzarnywork on it13:20
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qwerty12meh, curse windows. I can't even kill the 0xffff >.<13:24
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thuxabout windows, is there a maemo flasher for it or another way to flash?13:27
infobotflashing is, like,
thuxbut bootloader changes13:31
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RST38hWe will murder them all / With laughter and merriment13:35
RST38hExcept for a few / We take home to experiment13:35
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slonopotamusso, I've uploaded my first package to autobuilder and it built successfully. when it will be available in extras-devel repository?14:04
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yergaslonopotamus, approx. in 20 minutes14:11
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slonopotamusyerga, thanks14:21
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slonopotamusyerga, is there any notification send when it becomes available?14:22
yergathe only way is look at the repository14:22
slonopotamusI see. Will wait then.14:22
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JaffaMorning, all14:36
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Andy80hi Jaffa14:53
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t_s_ook, i should get this one framed and hung above my desk:
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slonopotamushow I can rerun failed package?15:02
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Stargazers^Has anyone of you installed debian on N80015:02
slonopotamuson autobuilder15:02
Stargazers^slonopotamus: Or did you meant that you have done it?15:04
slonopotamusStargazers^, nope, i haven't installed debian. Don't understand why one should want it.15:05
Stargazers^Well, much more packages.15:05
Stargazers^At least I liked it :D15:05
Stargazers^I installed php5 and lighttpd \o/15:05
slonopotamusStargazers^, well, just rebuild debian package for maemo15:05
Stargazers^What you mean?15:06
slonopotamusmaemo uses debian package manager. diablo is very similar to debian 'etch' distribution. And I bet that >%90 of packages can be recompiled for maemo without any modifications.15:07
Stargazers^Well, yes. But they must recompile. And it is slow :(15:08
Stargazers^Much easier just apt-get install package15:08
Stargazers^Thre is so many packages in debian repos.15:08
slonopotamusyou don't need the whole repo, aren't you?15:08
Stargazers^Well, no. But at least there is so easy to install them.15:09
slonopotamusanyone, please support beginner autobuilder user :) is there any way to rerun failed package?15:09
Stargazers^Autobuilder? Mmh.15:09
slonopotamusStargazers^, I'm afraid of increased memory usage because many libs will be loaded for OS and for chrooted debian.15:10
Stargazers^Well, that is why totally beginnners should not do it.15:10
Stargazers^I didn't found lighttpd, mysql and php5 for maemo.15:10
slonopotamusStargazers^, you can be expert in anything without being a beginner in it first15:10
qwerty12_N800slonopotamus: fix the error and reupload15:11
Stargazers^Surely, but I meant that totally beginners with linux in anyway.15:11
Stargazers^They might use it first in somewhere else.15:11
Stargazers^Than just install it to n800.15:11
Stargazers^If they don't have any reason.15:11
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slonopotamusqwerty12_N800, did that. Nothing happens. however is is pretty big package (can take some time to build). can i somehow see if it started building (or more general, what is autobuilder doing at the moment)?15:12
slonopotamusaha! it started building15:13
qwerty12_N800slonopotamus: it should be building. Iirc, you can only see status after it successfully built or failed15:13
slonopotamusautobuilder lacks progress indication.15:15
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slonopotamusStargazers^, maybe your card was partitioned such way?15:16
Stargazers^Well... I dunno. I just made "Format" in file-manager before I started that debian installer.15:17
Stargazers^Let me see.15:17
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slonopotamusrun 'chroot /mnt/initfs/ /sbin/fdisk -l /dev/mmcblk0' to see how it is partitioned (you may need to change number of your card)15:19
slonopotamusStargazers^, ^15:20
Stargazers^Ok. Let me see.15:20
Stargazers^        Device Boot    Start       End    Blocks   Id  System15:21
Stargazers^/dev/mmcblk0p1               1       61264     1960440    b  Win95 FAT3215:21
Stargazers^This way.15:21
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Stargazers^Is there something wrogn?15:29
slonopotamuslooks ok15:32
slonopotamusdid you use this instruction:
Stargazers^ <-- This15:33
qwerty12_N800You can install to an image file...15:34
Stargazers^And installed using Easy Debian 0.9-715:34
qwerty12_N800...with the deblet installer15:34
Stargazers^You can install to an image file?15:35
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* slonopotamus thinks autobuilder's builder1 is slow. It is building libdb for an hour already.15:36
lirithose flash 9 games are really very for the tablet... eesh15:36
slonopotamusStargazers^, sorry, no idea then. Where debian fs is mounted from?15:37
matrxStargazers^: sounds like you installed to an image file on the flash card15:37
Stargazers^Well, if that installer does that, then yes?15:38
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slonopotamus /dev/dm-0 on /debian type ext2 (rw,noatime)15:38
slonopotamusdon't know what dm-0 is :(15:39
slonopotamusthat partition must be debian root15:39
qwerty12_N800image file. dm  = dmloop15:40
slonopotamusStargazers^, then matrx is right, your debian is installed to an image file.15:40
Stargazers^Can I somehow make that image "bigger"?15:41
liriick, *very slow* I meant to say15:41
lirithey're pretty heavy for the tablet to handle15:42
Stargazers^Well, not so slow.15:42
qwerty12_N800Stargazers^: it's been discussed on the itt forums before how to.15:42
Stargazers^qwerty12_N800: Tried to found, but didn't :S15:42
liriStargazers^: well what I tried is, anyway15:42
Stargazers^liri: Ok.15:42
Stargazers^IMO it is fast enought. :D15:42
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slonopotamusStargazers^, I suppose you need to recreate it somehow, specifying new size. Linux filesistems are not good at resizing :(15:43
slonopotamusit == debian image file15:44
slonopotamusanother idea - how much free space do you have on your card?15:46
Stargazers^Let me see...15:47
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slonopotamusany files (taking missing 900 mb :) ) except for image file?15:48
Stargazers^Nothing more.15:48
Stargazers^Just that image.15:48
slonopotamus(just unproven thoughts) you should move you file somewhere else, create bigger empty image file, them mount both image files and perform a full copy from old to new one. optionally, instead of creating new image file you could use your whole flash as disk partition. it will require reformatting into something more linux-friendly (ext2/3) and changing configuration of app that you are using to ender debian chroot.15:54
slonopotamusi don't think you can resize existing image file (however i can be wrong)15:54
Stargazers^Have to look it some day.15:55
Stargazers^Well, do you know if there is step-by-step tutorial?15:55
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slonopotamusno, I don't. I'm sure one of image creators can help you. I suggest waiting a little until you get reply on itt forum15:56
Stargazers^Ok. Thank you.15:56
matrxit would take you less time and be easier to do a reinstall15:57
Stargazers^matrx: Well, reinstallation is no problem if I can find easy tutorial how to do that.15:57
slonopotamusdoes installer allow to configure image size?15:57
Stargazers^Well, it just downloaded it -> then extract it -> and in menu I can start it.15:58
slonopotamusit's extremely beginners' installer :)15:58
Stargazers^Well, it seems to be :D15:59
Stargazers^But well, it was good. Now I have tested it and limits seems to be reached. Not enough free spacve to install enough apps.15:59
Stargazers^Or at least I can't find way.15:59
Stargazers^Maybe I should try more advanced method.15:59
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slonopotamusyou should. A method that will have manual step for configuring image location/size16:00
matrxi've only used the deblet installer16:00
Stargazers^Deblet installer...16:00
Stargazers^What is the difference?16:00
Stargazers^Does it install debian directly to card?16:00
Stargazers^Eg. create own filesystem etc?16:01
slonopotamusInstaller with partioning (cfdisk) and mkfs.ext2, install into a file, etc.16:01
matrxit has options to do so, for dual booting16:01
slonopotamusi think that's what you want16:01
Stargazers^Dual-boot would be nice.16:01
matrxyou could probably free up more space on your current image by removing uneeded stuff16:01
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Stargazers^matrx: Well, might be.16:01
matrx' apt-get clean ' to remove downloaded packages16:02
Stargazers^But well, if I install debian using Deblet directly to card, can I later "move" that to another card?16:02
Stargazers^If I buy bigger card16:02
Stargazers^matrx: Done that already16:02
matrxi tend to go rm happy in /usr/share16:02
Stargazers^Wallpapers and other crap.16:03
Stargazers^And docs...16:03
Stargazers^Well. Might be.16:03
matrxrm var/lib/apt/lists/*16:03
matrxrm var/cache/apt/*.bin16:03
matrxrm -rf usr/share/doc/*16:03
matrxrm -rf usr/share/info/*16:03
matrxfind usr/share/locale -type f -exec rm {} \;16:03
Stargazers^Is there anything "important" in that /usr/share? Programs?16:04
Stargazers^There is icons etc.16:04
matrxthat's my script for remove temp apt files, docs, info pages, and locales16:04
Stargazers^Does it remove anything "important"?16:05
Stargazers^I mean, those are not very important for me.16:05
matrxlocales gets tricky16:05
matrxdoc, info, and also the man pages can be sacrificed16:06
matrxnothing major space wise, but when your down to 46mb free, every bit counts16:07
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_julian_does someone know if a qt snapshot with better performance then 4.4.1 is available for maemo?16:26
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_|Nix|_Hi! I just started using the chinook/diablo buildbot. Wow! What is its usual turnaround time?16:49
_|Nix|_I submitted meanwhile-1.0.2-3 straight from upstream debian like, an hour ago, and it still doesn't seem to have built it.16:49
jott_julian_: there are no snapshots of qt 4.5 with the new rendering code available yet. thiago promised snapshots for "next week", not sure how much of the new rendering code will be in there by then. ->
jott_|Nix|_: it can take some time. watch
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_|Nix|_jott: Been watching it like a hawk. Subscribed to the list and everything.16:55
jottmake sure your gpg key is fine.16:55
jott(matches the one you set on the garage account)16:56
_|Nix|_jott: It should be. I u/l-ed Pidgin to Chinook with it *shrug*16:56
_|Nix|_That was binary though. No buildbot.16:56
_|Nix|_I wish there was a page showing the buildbot's queue.16:56
Stargazers^How I can press down key in maemo on scree keyboard+ :D16:57
jotthm yeah. well at least you can sort by date :)16:57
jottwell anyway, maybe try to ask X-Fade if everything is in order with your account.16:58
jottan hour is quite long for not even showing up in the builder/ dir.16:59
puslinghow do I debug wether it is the usb port in my n810 that is broken or my cable when I only have one of each ?17:00
Stargazers^Can't I create two partitions using N800 on screen keyboard in Deblet?17:02
jottpusling: maybe it's the device that is broken :)17:02
Stargazers^When it goes in cfdisk?17:02
jottpusling: but for a cable - you can easily check it with a multimeter etc.17:02
jottpusling: (the usb device ^ )17:02
puslingjott: if I plug my mouse into the port where I unplug the cable, my mouse works.17:03
jottStargazers^: d-pad maybe? :)17:03
Stargazers^What is that?17:03
jottthe up-down-left-right hardware keys :)17:03
jottpusling: hmm. well if in doubt i would really try to check the cable. should be easy to do :)17:04
_|Nix|_jott: Well, I'm not too impressed. After all, it hasn't built anything in the past 15 minutes ...17:04
Stargazers^jott: Thanks :--D17:05
jottwell 15-30 minutes are normal.17:05
puslingjott: except the size of the n810 plug is too small for my big 'meter17:05
jottpusling: hah. attach a needle .)17:05
jott_|Nix|_: does your package show up on ?17:05
_|Nix|_jott: Nope.17:05
jottok then it is most likely some upload error. on which ever end.17:06
_|Nix|_jott: Neither diablo nor chinook.17:06
_|Nix|_jott: u/l went OK.17:06
_|Nix|_No errors with dput.17:06
jottyou can't tell17:06
_|Nix|_I see.17:06
Mekperhaps try using the web based upload form?17:06
Mekthat does give a bit more feedback I think17:06
puslingjott: but when I unplug the cable from the n810, I get "tusb_otg_ints 747: forcing disconnect (no interrupt)"17:06
_|Nix|_Mek: There is such a form?17:07
_|Nix|_Mek: Can you URL me?17:07
jottpusling: hmm. intersting.17:07
puslingbut nothing on my computer.17:07
jottpusling: the usb mode is setup correctly i assume? maybe you need to force host mode?17:07
puslingjott: it should afaik be slave, the n810 ?17:08
jottif you want to attach a mouse, you might have to use host mode.17:08
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puslingjott: I just want to access the files.17:08
jottusb stick?17:09
puslingno. from my computer17:09
puslingplain old "I want to plug my n810 to my computer"17:09
puslingnothing fancy at all17:10
jottah. hmm.17:10
puslingand nothing fancy done to the device17:10
jott"have you tried to turn it off and on again?" :P17:10
puslingyes ;)17:10
puslingboth computer and device17:10
MangoFusionout of curiosity, does anyone know how much recording time one could get out of an N800 from a full charge with the screen off, wifi, off, etc?17:11
jottMangoFusion: i guess quite some time.17:12
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jottpusling: sorry, besides looking harder at "dmesg" and checking your cable i have no idea :/17:12
_|Nix|_Mek, jott: Seems like my .changes file was invalid ... well then, lessee ...17:12
MangoFusionhaha, probably. but i was wondering if anyone knows of any tests / benchmarks17:13
jott_|Nix|_: aye. might be worth to file a bug some time to get a bit more verbose dput output. you are not the first one...17:13
jottMangoFusion: "quite some time" is not concrete enough for you? :)17:14
jottMangoFusion: just test it and tell us :)17:14
MangoFusionthat was not the point of the question17:14
jotti think your use case is not that common :)17:14
MangoFusionoh well17:14
jott(for testing power consumption on the nit at least)17:15
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puslingis there a way to find the bug if google finds me a attachment ? (on
Mekuse google to find pages linking to that page?17:17
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qwerty12_N800What is the attachment?17:17
puslinga dmesg log17:17
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jottyou could add something like "&action=edit" to the url ;)17:21
jott(but googlefoo should also work)17:22
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JaffaDoes anyone know where the DBUS specification of the libosso DBUS signals are, rather than the wrapper?17:23
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jottJaffa: are there any publicly available?17:25
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Jaffajott: appears not. You can poke through the libosso *.c files and find them, combined with the mce headers.17:29
jottbut that's not really a "specification" ;)17:30
* Jaffa is talking to the Jalimo folks about a Java API for writing power-conscious apps (in Java) - and I want it to be the easiest thing for a developer to get right. For example, all threads will stop when not in the foreground, unless registered as an ongoing background thread.17:30
JaffaThat's what I'm thinking, anyway.17:30
Jaffajott: indeed ;-)17:30
jotthm, yeah i guess these parts shouldn't be to hard to find out.17:30
jott(like if you want to know something "concrete")17:30
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jottJaffa: hildon offers something like "hildon_program_set_can_hibernate"17:35
JaffaInteresting. Hadn't spotted that yet.17:35
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* Jaffa still is flip-flopping in his head between whether Java, Vala or Python is the language which the majority of Maemo apps should/could/might be written in (one day). It currently looks like Python - but a JIT or native code could perform better (of course, with an OMAP3, does the performance matter as much?)17:37
jotti vote for Qt :D17:38
* Mek votes for C++ :P17:38
Mekokay, Qt+python might also be acceptable :)17:38
jottJaffa: still, different use cases i guess.17:38
* Jaffa prefers the look of Gtk+ desktops; but the documentation as a developer sucks donkeys' balls17:39
jottuse QGtkStyle :P17:39
Jaffajott: yeah - I'm pondering the great wealth of talent out there17:39
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mavhcwhichever uses less ram17:39
Jaffajott: I was going to play with it, but the source wouldn't compile IIRC on my hardy box, even with libqt4-dev17:39
jottJaffa: i mean the main problem is memory not cpu in most cases.17:39
JaffaThat's very true17:40
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jottatom systems have it easier. they all go with a gb of ram and don't have to care ;)17:40
crashanddieJaffa, I still have a hard time accepting Python has a full blown do-everything-with-it language17:40
JaffaJust look at how a good SDK can make a difference to people wanting to develop: I briefly thought about an iPod Touch because the SDK is so attractive as a developer.17:40
crashanddieit's nice to play with, but it just doesn't scale well17:40
crashanddieJaffa, same here with Android17:41
Jaffajott: maybe we'll get a compromise 512MB of RAM in the N900 ;-)17:41
jottJaffa: i highly doubt it, but it would be great ;)17:41
Jaffacrashanddie: indeed. Java gets a big boost from its tooling which is so rich and polished - which Android can leverage (but that's only part of the issue, of course)17:41
Jaffajott: ditto17:41
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crashanddieJava is just practical17:42
JaffaAww. no more Iyonix:
crashanddiebut I guess Java would be quite slow on the NIT17:43
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Jaffajalimo-swt-example* are quite quick once they're started. Cacao's JIT's not half bad (although I wouldn't use it for a high performance app without more testing).17:43
* qwerty12_N800 remembers using some old ass acorn computers in my primary17:44
jottwith a proper vm java is not really slow. swing and awt are slow that's true.17:44
JaffaBig issue at the moment is startup time which is about 8-12 seconds. I believe there are some JIT caching patches under development which'll speed up startup.17:44
jottwell you get slow startup times with python too :)17:45
crashanddieBut yeah, C++ still would be my language of choice17:45
crashanddieWe'll speak again when I have finished the C++ bindings for liq*17:45
Jaffajott: indeed, python-launcher's a good start on sorting that; but Python's got no JIT AFAIK17:45
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jottJaffa: :)17:47
jott(not start-up time but interesting in general)17:47
Jaffaheh cool17:47
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crashanddieC++'s speed will highly depend upon the libraries you'll use17:48
MangoFusionno more Iyonix?!17:49
jottcrashanddie: those are just plain algorithms run.17:49
jottfaq is nice. -> Snail's friends said "it's not fair" - everyone knows that a creature should leave a slime trail, all those other creatures are cheating!17:50
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crashanddie19 UTC17:51
crashanddieso that's what, 8PM BST?17:51
crashanddieoh, yeah, good, we're saturday17:52
crashanddieno start trek at 8 on saturday17:52
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RST38h~curse MIPS instruction set for being badly outdated piece of shit, may ARM rule forever18:47
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, MIPS instruction set for being badly outdated piece of shit, may ARM rule forever !18:47
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melmothyo lardman18:52
melmothhow is navit going ?18:53
melmothi may look it up sooner than expected. My c test are not that good. I havent finished to get the paris graph in C, but it already eat 100Mb of memory (vs 70Mb for a full graph in python).18:53
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lardmanI've compiled and run it, need to work out how the routing dialog is supposed to work18:56
lardmanrendering is slow, but not too bad18:56
lardmanslow as in ~1.5s to render the screen, so probably not the same ballpark as the Python code ;)18:56
lardmanhmm, interesting that it takes more memory for C than for Python for your structures though18:57
melmothi guess my lack of c skills is to blame, but i cannot find exactly where i m wasting memory.18:57
woglindehi lardman18:58
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lardmanstick the code up on your Garage page, I'm sure people will be interested to take a look18:58
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* lardman wonders why xchat is using 98% cpu and very laggy18:59
lardmanbbiam, perhaps a restart will help it18:59
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melmothit is alread in garage (i use a sandbox branch in the sayhoo svn tree to play with c tests)19:00
lardmancool, I'll take a look later on19:00
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dererkazojohnx, you there by chance?19:02
lardmanmelmoth: I must admit I've been wondering about using online routing services (writing our own is still an interesting project, but in terms of getting something that works now)19:03
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lardmanmelmoth: but something with higher routing detail that the Google instructions which maemo-mapper currently downloads19:03
melmothi do not have any internet access besides wifi.19:08
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lardmannext device will have hsda (right word?)19:10
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woglindelardman man no19:11
melmothit will have a always connected something..but one will still need to have a contract with a phone company to use it19:11
woglindenot the right word19:11
lardmanyeah, contracts are pretty cheap here atm though19:11
lardmanwoglinde: what is it then? got a p in it?19:11
woglindeyes p19:12
melmothi do not even own a mobile phone (i hate mobile phone) :-)19:12
woglindeyou dont need to call19:12
woglindeonly for tcp/ip19:12
lardmananyway, it would be another option for extending the usability of mm19:14
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melmothhmmm, funnily enough, the same test code use only 80M (vs 100M) when ran on scratchibx debian (vs my ubuntu laptop)19:15
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lardmanthat's strange19:17
lardmanis your laptop 64bit?19:17
qwerty12_N800Why is the popup blocker function in microb so retarded? I set it to not allow popups. By doing so, I did not realise it would count links that open in a new window that you tap to open as a popup.19:18
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lardmanhey qwerty12_N800, how's things?19:20
qwerty12_N800hey lardman, i'm good thanks, installing vista atm... all good for you i hope?19:21
qwerty12_N800s/all/all going/19:22
infobotqwerty12_N800 meant: hey lardman, i'm good thanks, install goinging vista atm... all good for you i hope?19:22
sp3000that sounds ...dissonant19:22
lardmanVista, yow19:22
lardmanyeah not bad though, just motivated to get some routing working after a crap trip back from Northampton in the week (i.e. I took the wrong turn, then couldn't really stop to look at the map for a long while)19:23
lardmanand not really wanting to spend lots of cash on a TomTom19:23
qwerty12_N800I use ubuntu too :p. Well, all the other computers are vista in my house and i'm bored with xp + I actually have a legal copy (i know, a rarity these days)19:23
qwerty12_N800ouch :(19:24
lardman+8Gb of RAM + 1Gb graphics card to go with it? ;)19:24
qwerty12_N800No :p. Only 2GB and some rubbish IGP which works well actually for aero.19:25
lardmanAnyone know of any other online routing services other than Google and Viamichelin?19:25
woglindelardman for europe?19:25
lardmanqwerty12_N800: cool, I guess you're just going to try out the graphical prettiness to prepare for the N900? ;)19:25
lardmanwoglinde: yep, but it would be interested to know of others too19:26
woglindelardman www.map24.de19:26
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qwerty12_N800lardman: I got compiz for that :p. I just feel like a change atm :/19:26
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles, what's the bug with all the people bitching about ogg support?19:52
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JaffaInteresting that a year ago, qgil was talking about an "Automated codec installer" which was planned (comment #29)20:01
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RST38hmoo all20:07
* Jaffa notices that timsamoff and GeneralAntilles both now have ( suffices in Bugzilla. Must go and find some of my comments :)20:08
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RST38hbitching about ogg support comes from precious few people who use (god knows why) because nokia and the rest of the world do not care20:08
melmothlardman|afk: youhou, navit runs on scratchbox... i m impressed.20:09
JaffaRST38h: it's fascinating reading. Personally, I'd rather have Skype with video, a clutter-based UI, consistent scrolling, efficient usage of screen real estate etc.20:09
RST38hJaffa: exactly. but some people are mightily adamant about ogg...20:12
qwerty12_N800I think it's bollocks when perfectly usual 3rd party projects provide ogg. It's just a few people who don't even know how to use the tablet that complain.20:13
GeneralAntillesKhertan, Best logo ever! :D20:13
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lardmanif they want bloody ogg then help me write the dsp task!20:16
lardmanmelmoth: cool, you worked out how the routing dialog works?20:16
melmothsort of20:17
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melmothit really can fit all france in 100M ! (where i cannot fit paris ;-) )20:17
melmothfinds route from paris to a 500KM away city in a couple of seconds.20:17
lardmandepends how it does the algo of course20:18
lardmanprobably doesn't try to calculate all possible routes everywhere20:18
lardmanvia everywhere that is20:18
melmothREADME states it s Dijkstra algorithm20:19
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lardman cool :)20:19
jottworldmapper is funny :)20:19
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lardmanmelmoth: in which case you can read in the data sequentially20:21
jottJaffa: nice one :)20:21
woglindehi jozz20:21
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woglindeups jott20:21
Jaffajott: :)20:22
JaffaWhat's the point of being in a city, without a car, if you're not drinking cheap, large, not entirely undrinkable beer at lunch?20:22
Jaffa...whilst geeking out.20:22
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woglindejaffa you couldnt type a word here in this case20:23
lardman+1 for the cheapness!20:23
JaffaTrue, I think I had my thumb on PgUp and was reading scrollback what happened during lunch.20:23
Jaffa+1 for lardman spotting 'em ;-)20:24
* lardman heads to do the washing up20:24
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* Jaffa should stop spodding so he can dedicate it to #maemo-meeting later.20:24
GeneralAntilles1.5 hours remaining20:25
JaffaBut I'm semi-looking after Jaffa Jr on his laptop20:25
JaffaGeneralAntilles: are you chairing the meeting?20:25
GeneralAntillesJaffa, it may well fall on me.20:25
GeneralAntillesWhich would be bad, as I don't have any plan at all.20:25
Jaffaheh, IIRC you suggested the meeting; you're council chair; you're good at shepherding cats... sounds like the right man for the job ;-)20:26
* GeneralAntilles puts together a rough agenda.20:26
sp3000yeah, we like it rough20:27
sp3000(out-of-context-sp3000 is out-of-context)20:27
* GeneralAntilles beats sp3000 around a bit with a sack of oranges.20:28
GeneralAntillesAnybody have a better hold on Google page rank than me?20:28
gomiamGeneralAntilles: "hold"?20:30
jottask gnuite to edit the index :P20:30
GeneralAntillesgomiam, grasp or understanding20:31
JaffaAh. Not just sites with high page rank which count as authoritative?20:31
JaffaGeneralAntilles: I've got /a/ grasp, whether it's better than yours or not, I can't say!20:31
jottno. page rank is much more elaborated nowadays.20:32
GeneralAntillesMy grasp is about nothing. ;)20:32
gomiamGeneralAntilles: it's easy, there's a lot of trained pigeons clicking on the screen at Google server facilities20:32
jottbut links from high profile sites count :)20:32
matrxhave they upgraded from pigeons?20:32
GeneralAntillesI'm mostly wondering how we can leverage the good page ranking of the old wiki pages to boost the rank of the new wiki pages.20:32
gomiammatrx: they tried to use vultures, but they tended to eat to much carrion. Caretakers complained loudly20:33
infobotgomiam meant: matrx: they tried too use vultures, but they tended to eat to much carrion. Caretakers complained loudly20:33
JaffaGeneralAntilles: replace as many pages as possible in the old wiki with either a "301 Moved Permanently" redirect or a single link saying "see here".20:33
jottGeneralAntilles: redirect? :)20:33
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GeneralAntillesRedirect sounds good, I guess.20:33
qwerty12_N800hi StsN80020:34
GeneralAntillesThere actually aren't that many pages that really need it20:34
GeneralAntillesbut the flashing articles from Midgard are still at the top of the google results even though they've been deleted.20:34
JaffaGoogle'll find out eventually, but a redirect is the simplest; easiest and best solution20:34
jottyeah i would also say so.20:34
jottplus links from other places to the page would be covered.20:35
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mataharihi. Could someone please post me what's inside $PATH on your n810? My n810 can't find a bunch of programs, and i always have to export PATH by hand - what's annoying....20:39
* StsN800 waves from dublin20:39
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qwerty12_N800matahari:  user path: /usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/games  root path: /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin/X1120:40
qwerty12_N800hi StsN80020:40
StsN800lo qwerty12_N80020:41
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matahariqwerty12_N800: wow.... where can i set the PATH statically?20:43
qwerty12_N800matahari: export export PATH=$PATH:/where/ever in your ~/.profile should do it20:44
qwerty12_N800remove first export20:45
matahariok, thanks20:46
* qwerty12_N800 vista upgrade is still going after 2 hours :/20:46
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* RST38h read it as "after 2 years"20:49
RST38hit is, qwerty, it is...20:49
qwerty12_N800lol, at this rate, probably will be :p20:49
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qwerty12_N800then i've got to reinstall grub :/20:49
GeneralAntillesAlright, agenda together.20:50
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lcukevenin folks20:50
rm_youevening lcuk20:50
qwerty12_N800hi lcuk20:50
GeneralAntilles1 hour and 10 minutes -> #maemo-meeting20:50
rm_youi might actually be around for that <_<20:50
RST38h23:00 local? mhm20:51
rm_you14:00 local? :)20:51
lcukGeneralAntilles, you sent an email marked one hour ago as being meeting in just over an hour20:51
* RST38h will be up though, still having intercourse with that dev board20:51
GeneralAntilleslcuk, I sent it 5 minutes ago.20:51
lcuklol hmm20:51
lcukgmail has it on mine as 5:47 PM (1 hour ago)20:52
RST38hMIPS has got a really retro instruction set.20:52
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lcuknever mind ill stick around20:52
RST38hARM has it easy, it is no real RISC20:52
qwerty12_N800RST38h: no fmsx for my router then? =)20:52
RST38hMIPS is a real fucking RISC =(20:53
rm_youI need to get a cat-proof powerstrip20:53
RST38hqwerty: Oh, I have even got VGBA running on it, just slowly20:53
qwerty12_N800ow :/20:53
RST38hrm_you: Why? You don't wanna know what will happen? =)20:53
lcukrm_you, just put THINNER insulation on it, the problem will solve itself20:53
rm_youyeah, MIPS is what we learned in my comp. architecture class20:53
RST38hrm_you: And the funny thing is, it HAS NOT CHANGED since that time =)20:54
rm_youi'm more worried about the fact that it turns off if you breathe too hard on the power switch, not to mention if a cat steps near it20:54
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JasonWoofis diablo a recommended upgrade for all n810 users?20:55
infobotit has been said that flashing is
JasonWoofcool, will do. just gotta backup my home directory20:55
RST38h[whispering] Modest.20:55
JasonWoofi don't use the builtin e-mail, just gmail20:56
RST38hbtw, given the fact that everybody is here, has anyone got any flash content to work in Diablo MicroB?20:56
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JasonWoofI might use a builtin e-mail program if I had offlineimap20:57
sp3000RST38h: sure21:01
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, plenty of it.21:04
RST38hany examples?21:05
RST38hto me, it looks like the moment there is an embedded flash block, browserd goes into cardiac arrest21:06
sp3000teh youtubas21:06
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RST38hyoutubes send browserd into a loop21:06
* sp3000 watches some norwegians cover his band21:06
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GeneralAntillesYouTube works fine here.21:07
GeneralAntillesSlow, of course, but that's to be expected.21:07
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qwerty12_N800Youtube works for me too with some stuttering halfway through. Much better than chinook in that regard though.21:08
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sp3000speaking of which,
RST38h100% cpu usage though?21:09
RST38heven when video is stopped?21:09
sp3000a fullscreened youtube is 60--80% after video21:11
GeneralAntilleslol, sp3000, that's awesome.21:12
sp3000hey, it's got those related videos animations and crap21:12
sp3000wait, you were talking about the video, weren't you :P21:13
GeneralAntillesYes. :P21:13
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mataharii have problems with cloning my system to a SD card. I used penguinbait's Install-tools and install-tools-advanced to clone diablo to my external SD on my n810, but i have no efforts.... The scripts run fine, but my n810 will never boot from SD (but i can select it in bootmenu)...21:19
sp3000RST38h: fwiw flashblock makes the youtubes appear doubled for me on diablo, which is problematic21:19
matahariit always hangs at the NOKIA screen with the progress bar, and there is written "Booting from mmc12 (mmcblk0p2 ext2)" and i have to remove the battery to reboot....21:20
GeneralAntillesCan't help with penguinbaits installers21:20
infoboti heard boot-sd is
RST38hsp3000: weird...I installed it recently and it does not seem to double 'em21:20
GeneralAntillesAdBlock fixes it for some reason.21:21
GeneralAntillesBut AdBlock has its own massive set of issues.21:21
RST38hI disabled adblock although it is still installed21:21
matahariGeneralAntilles: thanks21:21
RST38hsomebody should really get back to maintaining browser extras...21:21
GeneralAntillesThey all pretty much suck, unfortunately.21:21
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GeneralAntillesThat's one repository I definitely don't want to see moved to Extras.21:22
qwerty12_N800The greasemonkey port is decent but not a fan on the others21:22
RST38hdo they suck for fundamental reasons or because nobody has maintained them for long time?21:22
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800, by the way, think I could talk you into putting together a CSS/hosts adblocking package for Extras?21:23
GeneralAntillesRST38h, I don't know, most of them just aren't well put together.21:23
qwerty12_N800GeneralAntilles: Alas, I'm not the best packager in the world :/21:23
GeneralAntillesSure, but I'm not looking for the best. :P21:23
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GeneralAntillesBiggest hurdle is probably cleaning up the hosts file during uninstall.21:24
RST38hhosts may be less important than css21:24
qwerty12_N800dnsmasq has an option to use a separate hosts file for ad blocking21:24
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RST38hneither solves the problem completely though so I would much prefer adblock to work =(21:25
GeneralAntillesMeh, I prefer lightweight almost-as-good ad blocking to slow-the-browser-to-a-crawl better ad blocking.21:26
* RST38h still has hopes adblock can be fixed21:27
qwerty12_N800Plug-ins are weird on microb though. I packaged wmlbrowser and it works when it feels like it :p21:28
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JasonWoofwow, flashing was very fast!21:30
JasonWoofI must have usb2 or something21:30
RST38hGeneral: btw is fb-based vgba noticeably faster?21:31
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, ridiculously faster.21:31
GeneralAntillesThough the upscaling is uglier.21:32
qwerty12_N800RST38h: i'd say it is. much faster than morphgear on my 520mhz ppc21:32
RST38hTo avoid upscaling, enable scanline simulation21:32
RST38hit will become slower though, sorry21:32
mataharidoes someone have the same issue, that the PATH settings on n810/Diablo are messed up? apt-get complains about missing programs, and my $PATH only contains /usr/bin /usr/local/bin and /bin (but none of the /sbin's). But i set the paths for root in /root/.profile - but they don't appear here... Has somebody an idea what might be wrong`21:32
GeneralAntillesWish we had the horsepower for a nice upscaler.21:33
RST38hwe do21:33
RST38hEnable interpolation in VBA21:33
GeneralAntillesYeah, but it slows it down.21:33
RST38hWhat you see (including performance) is based on 2xsai21:33
RST38hIt has NOT been optimized.21:33
RST38hPlain C code, not making use of two previous scanlines that it has already read21:34
RST38hgiven that even this code is still reasonably fast, the optimized version should run just fine21:34
JasonWoofmatahari: how are you becoming root?21:35
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matahariJasonWoof: rootsh21:39
qwerty12_N800matahari: in that case, use "root" command to become root21:40
qwerty12_N800Though apt-get should show up as non-root uuser anyway.21:41
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* qwerty12_N800 <3's bash completion on the tablets21:41
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matahariqwerty12_N800: when everything was so easy ;-)21:44
mataharithanks a lot21:44
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qwerty12_N800~curse hildonised leafpad21:48
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, hildonised leafpad !21:48
GeneralAntillesHey, hrw.21:48
qwerty12_N800hi hrw21:48
hrwsomeone know how to force canola2 to READ files which it has on MOUNTED remote?21:49
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hrwI have sshfs mounted lot of music from my desktop on 770 but canola2 beta9 only use files copied to device21:49
hrwremote is mounted in ~user/MyDocs/.sounds/home.lan/21:50
GeneralAntillesUPnP might work better.21:50
hrwGeneralAntilles: I do not plan to add another service to home.lan machine21:50
hrwand now canola2 died on mp3 ;(21:51
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JasonWoo1my tablet is staying online...21:52
JasonWoo1I'm very excited to see espeak in the repository now!21:52
JasonWoo1I was considering taking the time to cross-compile all the libraries it needed, but hadn't gotten around to it21:53
melmothJasonWoo1: i pushed it recently.21:53
JasonWoo1how can I hook one of my hardware buttons to a shell script?21:53
JasonWoo1thankyou thankyou thankyou!21:53
melmothyou will need to play with gstreamer to have it work21:53
GeneralAntilles7 minutes -> #maemo-meeting21:53
JasonWoo1melmoth: how do I do that?21:53
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melmoth/usr/bin/espeak -v fr --stdout "Bonjour" |gst-launch -v fdsrc ! wavparse ! audioconvert!autoaudiosink21:54
JasonWoo1with exclamation marks?21:55
melmothpipe and exclamation mark :)21:56
melmothyou pire the output of epseak to the standard input of gstreamer, wich use then ! to descrive the gstreamer pipelines used21:56
melmothso, after Bonjour, it s a pipe, then only exclamation mark21:56
RST38hhrw: I experimented with upnp a little bit - it seems relatively harmless21:57
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RST38hof course, canola crashing at a slightest provocation is a different issue21:58
qwerty12_N800btw, what is best open source upnp server for *nix? I may cc one for my router.21:58
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RST38hqwerty: there are about 321:58
RST38hqwerty: the best so far seems to be a simple command-line thingie21:58
qwerty12_N800k, thanks21:59
RST38hTry uShare21:59
RST38hMediaTomb looks like a gross overkill22:00
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qwerty12_N800ushare seems nice, thanks. it uses libupnp which is already on router22:01
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hrwshit.. gregale (os2006) apps are so limited..22:02
hrw"sshfs user@host:dir ~user/MyDocs/dir" results in non-accessable from maemo dir22:04
KotCzarny-o allow_other ?22:04
hrwKotCzarny: gracias - works22:05
KotCzarnythat would be 5EUR22:05
KotCzarnypaul newman is dead22:06
hrwso 2 beers on next meeting22:06
KotCzarnyjust kidding (about 5eur)22:06
hrwI know ;S22:07
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hrwnow I wonder how much time will canola spend on refreshing those 38GB of music...22:07
KotCzarnydon't do it22:08
KotCzarnychoose 'play by folder'22:08
KotCzarnyor something22:08
RST38hover sshfs? forever.22:08
KotCzarnymedia libraries are evil22:08
KotCzarnyand simply dumb22:08
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KotCzarnyhrw: wanna my ncurses mplayer ui?22:12
KotCzarnyhas recursive play etc22:12
hrwcooll.... canola + 'browse by folder' == 'no items found' in directory with 12 mp3 files22:12
hrwKotCzarny: it has to be as dump as possible22:13
KotCzarnyit is22:13
KotCzarnysimple and does the job22:13
ds3complaints after using Chinook on the road for a week - Firefox is the biggest PoS and the media player needs to support OGGs proper; the hacked one has a very annoying problem22:13
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KotCzarnyhrw, you have n810 ?22:14
ds3firefox has been responsible for rapid power drain at least 3 times during the week22:14
ds3no, plain N80022:14
hrwds3: its maemo - get used to it or change device22:14
hrwKotCzarny: I want something on old 770/os200622:14
KotCzarnyds3 == hrw ?22:14
Jaffads3: Firefox? You mean the built-in browser (microb) or Fennec?22:14
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ds3hrw != ds322:14
ds3Jaffa: microb22:14
JaffaNot Firefox, then.22:15
ds3thought microb is a stripped firefox?22:15
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RST38hds3: browserd hangup22:15
KotCzarnyhrw: as long you have mplayer on it and some kind of xterm and ncurses22:15
KotCzarnyhi lcuk22:15
Jaffads3: Upgrade to diablo. If reproducible, raise bugs :-)22:15
RST38hds3: probably caused by browserd choking on embedded flash or some css22:15
Jaffads3: No, it's a new browser based on a Gecko rendering engine.22:15
timsamoffArg. Sign in. Son wakes up. Must go. :(22:15
lcukhey kot22:15
KotCzarnymicrob is the engine + brand new ui22:15
ds3Jaffa: the problem is it tries to support all sorts of javascript crap so it takes minutes to render a page and allow pages to keep the CPU spinning preventing a sleep22:16
ds3RST38h: I have disabled flash22:16
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timsamoffHave fun everyone... Later.22:16
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Jaffads3: "all sorts of JavaScript crap" is necessary in a consumer Internet tablet.22:16
ds3the N800 is fine if I can recharge every day but long term use has really irked me22:16
KotCzarnyhrw: do you have sdk for os2006? or will binary for os2008 work?22:16
hrwremember that microb in chinook/diablo is sort of firefox3 alpha1 times..22:16
KotCzarnyds3: external battery back?22:17
ds3Jaffa: I disagree... the Access browser was very useful and didn't do that22:17
KotCzarny4x AA should do the work22:17
hrwKotCzarny: binary for os2008 will rather not work and I do not even plan to touch maemo sdk22:17
KotCzarnyhrw: statically compiled too?22:17
ds3KotCzarny: I have the peices to do it, but I rather not as my pockets are full enough22:17
Jaffads3: Turn JavaScript off then.22:17
KotCzarnyds3: 4x AA isn't big22:17
KotCzarnyand will provide you 3x longer battery time22:17
ds3the only reason I 'survived' is I had a 2000mAH LiIon pack on me22:17
hrwKotCzarny: static? this is 770 - small rootfs space etc22:17
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ds3Jaffa: I try that but there is something in there that turns it back on automatically :(22:18
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KotCzarnyhrw, then how can i provide you with the pfl ?22:18
KotCzarnyyou can't compile from source22:18
ds3don't get the wrong idea, I like my N800... these are just things that I found troublesome for long term use22:18
KotCzarnyand no way to run other binary22:18
hrwok, canola2 is not usable on 770 - too slow ;(22:18
GeneralAntillesds3, don't complain when you're using an old OS version.22:19
infobotflashing is probably
KotCzarnyds3: is that li-ion regular nokia battery?22:19
ds3GeneralAntilles: is the diablo - chinook changes that significant?22:19
KotCzarny2Ah is nice22:19
GeneralAntillesIn the browser, yes.22:19
ds3KotCzarny: no, this is an external charger pack22:19
mdgwhat formats does mplayer support?22:19
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ds3GeneralAntilles: ah okay... most of the ITT pages suggests diablo is a minor change mainly to add the OTA upgrade ability22:20
hrw~curse maemo for lack of good stuff22:20
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, maemo for lack of good stuff !22:20
GeneralAntillesds3, the browser has undergone two fairly significant upgrades.22:20
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KotCzarnyit should be changed to vista administrator22:20
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ds3GeneralAntilles: fair response. I will withhold further comments til I upgrade to diablo and had another opportunity to do a long term usage22:21
ds3the goal is to have a true pocket size laptop replacement... and it is mostly there22:21
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KotCzarnyhrw: does os2006 have ncurses5 ?22:25
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mdgwhat about kanju - any good?22:25
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hrwKotCzarny: please - I do not want to force target user to ncurses22:27
KotCzarnyi'm just asking :)22:28
hrwit does22:28
KotCzarnyand your problem is having limited resources22:28
KotCzarnyhow about xmms then?22:28
KotCzarnyor you want binary compiled by me for that pfl22:28
mdgI downloaded a video using keepvid website, saved as mpeg4, but it does not play22:28
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hrwKotCzarny: I will try few solutions first22:29
hrwand will have to install smbfs to get a bit better use22:29
KotCzarnyit can also use mpg123/mpg321 as a backend too22:29
KotCzarnyinstead of mplayer22:29
hrwand ogg123 mpc123 etc?22:30
KotCzarnyalthough supported file formats will be limited to mp3 then22:30
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KotCzarnyas long they support slave interface22:30
hrwI  have mp3/ogg/flac/mpc etc in collection22:30
KotCzarnymplayer is the best option22:30
hrwKotCzarny: its 38GB of music...22:30
KotCzarnyit doesn't index them, simple find . -type f when creating recursive playlist22:30
mdgI like MOC22:30
hrw9877 files22:31
hrwah - lot of them are SAP format22:31
hrw~curse again..22:33
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, again.. !22:33
hrwno smbfs.ko in os200622:34
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KotCzarnystatically compiled ncurses app is 700kb22:34
qwerty12_N800hrw: not in os2008 by default either. time to get kernel sources :)22:35
KotCzarnyshared one is 70kb22:35
KotCzarnyhow is that for a such fine mplayer ui22:35
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qwerty12_N800KotCzarny: (s)stripping producing any worthwhile size reductions?22:36
KotCzarnythat's stripped22:36
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KotCzarnyanyway, version for n800:
KotCzarnyi mean for maemo22:38
KotCzarnycompiled without n8x0 optimizations22:38
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hrwshit.. 2.6.21 cifs implementation is too old for samba 3.2 or other thing is fscked22:41
hrw[ 3709.550384]  CIFS VFS: cifs_mount failed w/return code = -2222:42
hrw[ 3714.846954]  CIFS VFS: Calculated size 0x51 vs actual length 0x6322:42
hrw[ 3714.847076]  CIFS VFS: bad smb size detected for Mid=122:42
hrw'/' too much ;D22:44
KotCzarnyit will try to index it over poor wifi22:45
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hrwplaying mp3 from samba share over wifi in maemo audio player has skips...22:48
KotCzarnytry me, try me22:49
KotCzarnyyou may try renicing samba process too22:49
KotCzarnyie. giving audio thred top priority22:49
hrwon 770?22:49
KotCzarnyit has renice, right?22:49
KotCzarnyon 2008 usual offenders are Xomap and mmc driver threads22:51
KotCzarnyrenicing them to 0 or higher results in continuous audio no matter what22:52
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KotCzarnylcuk, don't lurk22:54
lcukreadin the meetin22:54
KotCzarnyit's running now?22:55
KotCzarnyor archive?22:55
lcukbut ive done some cleanup and culling today and removed all documents from fixed location and am in process of making everything work with things in proper specified paths22:55
lcukyes, been goin for an hour22:55
lcukive not gotten round to laptop stuff, but theres no point until the code is cleaner22:56
hrw27 21:06 < GeneralAntilles> #maemo-meeting22:56
KotCzarnyhrw, not very descriptive22:56
* qwerty12_N800 understood it22:56
lcukblunt and to the point ;)22:56
KotCzarnyit could be anything from a date to just spam22:56
lcuklol @ gen actively spamming22:57
lcukits been in the title for about a month as well :P22:57
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hrw~curse kagu author for running scan on first start22:57
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, kagu author for running scan on first start !22:57
KotCzarnyas i was here for a month :P22:57
* lcuk whistles quietly cos hrw will shout at him one day for similar reason22:58
KotCzarnylcuk, don't you even think about media libraries :)22:59
qwerty12_N800liqbase == metalayer mk 2!?! :o :p22:59
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hrwlcuk: meta indexer on ~user/MyDocs/ will run?22:59
lcuknahhh i dont follow symlinks22:59
KotCzarnystill, don't even think about it, browse by dir/file23:00
lcukhrw, no just filename grabbin23:00
KotCzarnyyou shouldn't precache it imo23:00
lcukKotCzarny, i wouldnt ever push a media library at you, but i will store your recent documents and allow you to browse them as will :)23:00
hrwlcuk: how fast does it index 800 dirs with 10000 files?23:01
KotCzarnythat much is ok23:01
lcukprobably about a fortnight23:01
KotCzarnyhrw: run: time find /yourdir23:01
hrwreal    0m0.319s23:01
hrwuser    0m0.033s23:01
hrwsys     0m0.061s23:01
KotCzarnyyour target dir23:01
hrwthats for 10671 entries reported by find23:02
KotCzarnythe one with 10000 files23:02
hrwstarted on my desktop23:02
KotCzarnyyou asked about n800 speed23:02
hrwreal    0m 11.43s23:03
hrwuser    0m 0.27s23:03
hrwsys     0m 1.85s23:03
hrwsame on 770 with dir mounted by samba23:03
KotCzarnyand that's the time it would take23:03
KotCzarnywithout scanning by content obviously23:03
hrwshit.. 10000 of music files makes any maemo player unusable ;(23:04
lcukdoesnt find produce a lot of console output23:04
KotCzarnyhrw: get pfl, get pfl23:04
lcukand over ssh23:04
hrwNokia770-49:/home/user/MyDocs/.sounds/home.lan# time find . >/dev/null23:04
hrwreal    0m 1.84s23:04
hrwuser    0m 0.11s23:04
hrwsys     0m 0.53s23:04
lcukscanning internally without doing loads will be 100x faster23:04
lcuk:) see :D23:04
hrwKotCzarny: target user...23:05
lcuki manage to scan all docs in media/mmc1+2+ mydocs23:05
KotCzarnyhrw: navigation is with dpad23:05
lcukin a breif fraction of time23:05
KotCzarnyand all you need is playing the music/seeing the playlist23:05
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KotCzarnyit's 770 so you don't want any bells and whistles23:05
KotCzarnyonly to work as expected23:05
KotCzarnyi have put png how it looks23:06
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hrwKotCzarny: /tmp/playfilelist .23:07
hrwNo rc files found, using defaults!23:07
hrwAttempting to compile playlist ....done.23:07
hrwand exit23:07
KotCzarnyhrw: try adding some dir to cmd line23:07
KotCzarnyno segfault?23:07
KotCzarnyonly exit?23:07
hrwKotCzarny: "." is dir23:08
hrwexit only23:08
KotCzarnycan you run with -d param and send me a ~/.playfilelist.debug ?23:08
KotCzarnyor try / instead of .23:08
KotCzarnyor don't use params at all23:08
hrwCreating ncurses interface...23:09
hrwError opening terminal: xterm.23:09
hrwthats reason23:09
KotCzarnyapt-get install ncurses-base ?23:09
hrwnow better ;d23:10
KotCzarnybtw. i don't remember what was default mplayer cmd line it uses23:10
hrwfunny output when no mplayer/mpg321 in system23:10
KotCzarnyget playfilelistrc too23:10
KotCzarnyi think mpg321 needs something like mpg321 -C dummy_file as an option23:11
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KotCzarnyi mean -R dummy_file23:12
KotCzarnyplayfilelist -P "/mnt/hda8/mpg321 -R blah"23:12
KotCzarnybut i haven't used mpg123 in a long time23:13
KotCzarnyand you want ogg/aac etc23:13
KotCzarnyso mplayer is better anyway23:13
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hrwKotCzarny: pfl launch mplayer and no sound... mplayer with same file == sound23:16
KotCzarnyhrw: does it show 'mplayer started' in the window?23:17
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KotCzarnythat's the reason23:19
KotCzarnyget playfilelistrc23:19
KotCzarnyand modify mplayer line23:19
KotCzarnyit tries to use alsa as audio output23:19
KotCzarnyyou can do it from cmdline too23:20
KotCzarnytry pfl -P "mplayer -slave -idle -v -vo null"23:20
KotCzarnyanother thing i don't remember in what state i left playlist engine..23:21
KotCzarnyi remember hacking it for php player..23:21
hrwhave a good night23:21
KotCzarnyshould work though23:21
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mdghow do I install BASH on my 770 running hackeros200723:38
KotCzarnycp bash /bin/bash23:38
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KotCzarnycp bash /usr/bin/ could work too23:38
mdgyou mean on the 770 x-term?23:39
Stargazers^Hi. I installed Debian using deblet. All seems to be fine, then boot -> select from boot menu to go in Deblet -> it tries, then it just reboots (just white screen where comes text that it tries to boot from card) and then, normal boot from flash?23:40
Stargazers^What can be wrong?23:40
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Stargazers^I didin't saw any errors etc.23:40
qwerty12_N800zap's bash2 with bash3 + bashish + bash-completion pwns23:40
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mdgdidn't work23:43
qwerty12_N800of course not. where is this bash binary meant to come from?23:44
mdgthat's what I asked - how/where do I install23:45
matrxStargazers^:  i think i had a similar problem, boot into maemo and edit the file in /etc/bootmenu.d/23:45
matrxfor me it was pointing to the wrong device23:46
Stargazers^Thanks, have to look.23:46
mdgdoes this require root access23:46
Stargazers^Any tutorial?23:46
qwerty12_N800mdg: you followed cp instructions when they were bound not to work. i'd give you my binary of bash3 but it was compiled for os2008 and has n800 opts byme23:46
Stargazers^matrx: You mean, bootmenu.conf?23:46
Stargazers^Or file inside bootmenu.d?23:46
matrxthe file in bootmenu.d23:47
Stargazers^So, if I have it on external sd card place, what should it be then?23:47
zapqwerty12_N800: whats bashish?23:47
matrxthere's a few posts in the forum23:47
Stargazers^matrx: Can you give url? :S23:47
matrxwhat does your ITEM_DEVICE  currently say?23:48
Stargazers^Should it be EXT_CARD?23:48
Stargazers^It is what is placed in the bottom of N80023:48
qwerty12_N800zap: little themer for bash. i got it to install on my tablet after compiling dialog and modifying dpkg status file to let me install debianutils23:49
Stargazers^And it is on partition 2, or at least it should be.23:49
Stargazers^First (256MB) is swap.23:49
Stargazers^Then root partition and then /home23:49
matrxi had the same error on the n81023:49
Stargazers^You made it work?23:49
zap"bashish rocks your socks"... hmmm...23:49
matrx${INT_CARD}p2 should be mmcblk0p223:49
Stargazers^Let me see.23:50
qwerty12_N800zap: :p23:50
matrxthen run refresh_bootmenu.d as root23:50
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Stargazers^matrx: When "ls /dev/mmc" and pressing tabs -> "/dev/mmcblk1    /dev/mmcblk1p1  /dev/mmcblk1p2  /dev/mmcblk1p323:50
Stargazers^So it is pointing on wrong device.23:51
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Stargazers^I have it on mmcblk123:51
matrxthen try mmcblk1p223:51
JasonWoofI got an apple bluetooth keyboard. I'm not at all happy with how it responds on my n810. there's enough lag that I really can't use it for real-time games, and keys stick a lot23:51
Stargazers^Just typing it directly?23:51
JasonWooflike every 20 keypresses23:51
Stargazers^Or using that variable?23:51
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mdgJasonWoof:  I was thinking of buying one of those23:52
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JasonWoofmdg: the keyboard is awesome23:53
JasonWoofI tried hooking it to a mac, and it works great23:53
JasonWoofno key sticking, no lag23:53
JasonWoofon my tablet it's crappy23:53
Stargazers^Didn't boot from it.23:53
matrxthere are better ones on the forum23:53
JasonWoofalso I can't seem to get a different keyboard layout for it23:53
matrxthen try mmcblk0p223:53
Stargazers^Ach, didn't remember to reflash?23:53
Stargazers^How I can do it.23:53
mdgwell that's a bummer - not working with you 81023:54
Stargazers^And should it be done after changin that file?23:54
JasonWoofmdg: it works, just not as well as I'd hoped. I'm probably exagerating badly on the stickey keys23:54
mdgdid you have to set it up with your mac first?23:54
matrxyes, as root under maemo, run refresh_bootmenu.d to update the bootmenu23:54
JasonWoofmdg: no23:54
qwerty12_N800JasonWoof: may help23:54
qwerty12_N800for layout23:54
JasonWoofqwerty12_N800: thanks23:54
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mdgIs Midnight Command or EmelFM available in hackeros2007?23:57
zapyou may try the one for Maemo23:59
zapI mean for Chinook23:59
zapshould work (mc)23:59

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