| moontiger | i think it looks awesome | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| moontiger | is that a deblet? | 00:00 |
| johnx | moontiger, yup | 00:00 |
| moontiger | lxde? | 00:00 |
| KotCzarny | johnx, but don't mind me, i'm kidding a little | 00:00 |
| johnx | I've been doing some fine tuning | 00:00 |
| johnx | KotCzarny, I figured :P | 00:00 |
| johnx | yeah, lxde | 00:00 |
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| johnx | can't decide if I like the panel to the right or left | 00:00 |
| moontiger | is the install for that clean and non-destructive? | 00:00 |
| johnx | deblet? or my couple little hacks? | 00:02 |
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| lakin | I have a nokia n810 (which runs OS2008, 2.2007.51-3), and I'm trying to track down the SDK python version ... basically, i'm trying to use python code that depends on the compile module. Accoring to http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/documentation/pymaemo_tutorial/python_maemo_howto.html that module is included only in the SDK. Is this the right place to ask about that? | 00:06 |
| johnx | lakin, sure | 00:07 |
| johnx | if it's in the sdk, then it's probably in one of the repos here: http://repository.maemo.org/#sdk_debian | 00:08 |
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| lakin | johnx: thanks | 00:11 |
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| lmoura | lakin, try the package python2.5-dev | 00:16 |
| lakin | lmoura, i'm trying to install it on the device, can I just use apt-get from the terminal? | 00:16 |
| lmoura | lakin, if the extras repo is enable, I think so | 00:17 |
| lakin | hrrm, don't have the appropriate permissions, guess I need to find out how to gain those permissions | 00:18 |
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| GAN800 | ~rootsh | 00:20 |
| infobot | [rootsh] an easy way to get root and it's found here: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/rootsh/ | 00:20 |
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| Pavlov | hey, we're seeing some /var/tmp files created for mmaps -- anyone know what they are? | 00:32 |
| Pavlov | anonymous mmaps | 00:33 |
| lakin | thanks GAN800 | 00:33 |
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| lakin | hrmm, python2.5-dev is already installed | 00:41 |
| lakin | but still no compile module | 00:41 |
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| mikkov_ | lakin: what is the exact name of the module you are looking for? | 00:50 |
| lakin | compile | 00:50 |
| lakin | let me double check that | 00:51 |
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| mikkov_ | there is codeop, py_compile and compileall modules in python library reference, but no compile | 00:52 |
| mikkov_ | Compile class exists in codeop module | 00:53 |
| lakin | yeah, I'm double checking | 00:53 |
| mikkov_ | ah, compiler package exists | 00:54 |
| lakin | yeah, that's probably it. | 00:54 |
| lakin | yep, it's called compiler | 00:55 |
| lakin | bloody hell, compiler is installed | 00:55 |
| lakin | it must have been installed when I installed the maemo-python-dev-env or some such package, I forget its exact name, but I was testing it by importing the wrong module. Thanks! | 00:56 |
| lakin | mikkov_: thanks for helping me get my head out of the clouds | 00:56 |
| mikkov_ | no problem ;) | 00:57 |
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| svu | anyone managed to install new canola? | 01:33 |
| svu | it wants new canolad | 01:34 |
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| Navi | svu, beta10? | 01:49 |
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| ion_cu_vaca | hi | 01:52 |
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| svu | Navi, yes | 01:55 |
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| mdg | hello! | 04:02 |
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| mdg | I finally got hackeros 2007 to flash on my 770! Yay! I'm looking for which program can run like a large clock | 04:02 |
| Dsnye | ? | 04:03 |
| * KotCzarny misread it as 'large cock' | 04:03 | |
| KotCzarny | doh | 04:03 |
| mdg | a full screen clock | 04:03 |
| mdg | LOL | 04:03 |
| * Dsnye hits clear screen to no avail... | 04:04 | |
| KotCzarny | as for clock, hmm | 04:04 |
| KotCzarny | anyone ported xscreen saver to maemo? | 04:04 |
| mdg | will hackeros 2008 give me flash on my 770? | 04:05 |
| mdg | anyone have a collection of background pictures for the tablet PCs? | 04:06 |
| KotCzarny | i guess any bg will do | 04:07 |
| KotCzarny | wallpaper app can crop/fit automatically | 04:07 |
| mdg | what's the best size for a background? | 04:07 |
| KotCzarny | 800x480 | 04:07 |
| mdg | Thanks! | 04:08 |
| mdg | anyone here have a 770 with hackeros 2008 on it? | 04:08 |
| KotCzarny | yes, but not me | 04:09 |
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| mdg | Besides, obviously, the camera and FM tuner functions, do programs work on the 770? | 04:09 |
| KotCzarny | probably not | 04:10 |
| KotCzarny | unless hw is included on 770 | 04:10 |
| KotCzarny | but correct me if i'm wrong | 04:10 |
| KotCzarny | hw == hardware | 04:10 |
| mdg | so there is no flash for 770 in any os? | 04:11 |
| KotCzarny | don't know | 04:11 |
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| KotCzarny | my guess it's not compiled for 770's cpu | 04:11 |
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| mdg | oh. Well, at least I can download videos to my MMC and then watch | 04:12 |
| mdg | Was hoping there was a way to listen to internet radio from my local station - its clear channel and I can't get it on my linux machine | 04:13 |
| KotCzarny | internet radio != fm radio | 04:13 |
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| mdg | but it does not have my local station - a Clear Channel station | 04:14 |
| KotCzarny | do they have wma/mp3/ogg stream? | 04:14 |
| mdg | I've been unable to determine what - the link to the stream is buried - you have to launch their player in a window | 04:14 |
| KotCzarny | run through proxy and log the urls | 04:15 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 04:15 |
| mdg | proxy? | 04:15 |
| KotCzarny | yes | 04:15 |
| mdg | that's a linux program? | 04:15 |
| KotCzarny | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_server | 04:16 |
| mdg | if/when I find the right url, can it be added to fm player? | 04:16 |
| KotCzarny | fm not, regular media player, maybe | 04:16 |
| KotCzarny | fm means hardware decoding | 04:16 |
| KotCzarny | without internet | 04:17 |
| mdg | oh, okay | 04:17 |
| mdg | I'm going to check out Proxy-server Thanks!!! | 04:17 |
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| mdg | that proxy stuff is overwhelming! | 04:20 |
| KotCzarny | educatiom is good for you | 04:20 |
| KotCzarny | education | 04:20 |
| KotCzarny | you will know how internet works | 04:21 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 04:21 |
| mdg | which kind do I want? | 04:21 |
| KotCzarny | any that can allow you to sniff what addresses your browser is using | 04:21 |
| mdg | is there one for the 770? | 04:21 |
| KotCzarny | do it on pc | 04:21 |
| KotCzarny | to find out your radio stream link | 04:21 |
| mdg | do you have a favorite one? | 04:22 |
| KotCzarny | junkbuster | 04:22 |
| mdg | is it easy to use? | 04:22 |
| KotCzarny | for me? yes | 04:22 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 04:22 |
| mdg | my pc is running Mint Daryna | 04:22 |
| mdg | I would look for proxy servers? | 04:23 |
| KotCzarny | what's the radio link | 04:25 |
| mdg | www.thekat.com | 04:25 |
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| gregorovius | well, I disabled a bunch of stuff and battery life seems to be back to normal, so it's not hardware-related | 04:34 |
| gregorovius | now, it can be omweather, the statusbar cpu monitor, openntpd, or the fm applet | 04:34 |
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| mdg | I'm stumped | 04:38 |
| KotCzarny | yeah | 04:38 |
| KotCzarny | that site is stupid | 04:38 |
| gregorovius | what site? | 04:38 |
| mdg | Clear Channel made it really hard to use anything other than windows/IE | 04:38 |
| KotCzarny | the radio one he tries to tune in | 04:39 |
| Navi | KotCzarny, you're stupid. | 04:39 |
| mdg | gregorovius, a local internet radio station | 04:39 |
| KotCzarny | navi == troll | 04:39 |
| gregorovius | yeah, I realize | 04:39 |
| Navi | KotCzarny, that returns 0 | 04:39 |
| gregorovius | a troll with logic! | 04:39 |
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| mdg | I haven't been able to listen to that station since they changed the "player" their network stream launches | 04:40 |
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| gregorovius | what's the url? | 04:40 |
| mdg | www.thekat.com | 04:40 |
| KotCzarny | they should let people to choose the player, or at least provide link to the stream | 04:41 |
| mdg | I agree! | 04:41 |
| KotCzarny | checking for some obscure firefox extension and removing everything from the page isn't nice | 04:41 |
| KotCzarny | but i guess they need to show ads | 04:41 |
| mdg | Yeah, without the ads they can't pay for the streaming internet | 04:42 |
| mdg | its not a very big station or a very big market | 04:42 |
| gregorovius | I can't even try to listen to that radio, it's US-only | 04:42 |
| KotCzarny | and they apparently lost another listener | 04:42 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 04:42 |
| mdg | not me - love that station! Somehow I will figure it out | 04:43 |
| gregorovius | if you got 5 minutes, write them and tell em your experience | 04:43 |
| KotCzarny | well | 04:43 |
| KotCzarny | they need mplayer plugin | 04:43 |
| KotCzarny | and mplayer | 04:43 |
| KotCzarny | so you can probably do without flash | 04:43 |
| mdg | Yeah, I tried to compile the little plug-in for mplayer and it just won't work for me. I've been waiting for mplayer to incorporate it in their next update | 04:44 |
| KotCzarny | assuming someone ported mozplayer or something | 04:44 |
| mdg | Using windows is so ANNOYING! | 04:44 |
| eean | don't? | 04:45 |
| mdg | eean, I do as much as I can on my Linux Mint machine | 04:45 |
| mdg | I'v learned a lot tonight! Thanks for everyones' input | 04:47 |
| mdg | my little 770 is a fun little entertainment! | 04:48 |
| mdg | night all! | 04:49 |
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| eean | are there any packages for the latest OS2008 out in the Internet somewhere? | 04:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~extras | 04:55 |
| infobot | well, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras | 04:55 |
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| eean | it didn't have a wesnoth for the latest os2008 last I looked | 04:56 |
| Mek | extras-devel than perhaps? | 04:57 |
| eean | thats not for devel packages? | 04:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Badger the maintainer | 04:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | then grab it from Chinook Extras | 04:57 |
| eean | before I upgraded os2008 wesnoth was there | 04:57 |
| eean | heh | 04:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/w/wesnoth/ | 04:58 |
| eean | what am I running/ | 04:59 |
| eean | diablo? | 04:59 |
| gregorovius | anybody knows the speed/class of the 128mb card that comes with the n800? | 04:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes | 04:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | gregorovius, probably not good. ;) | 04:59 |
| eean | ah, but I could get it from chinook fine probably | 04:59 |
| gregorovius | I thought I'd put it in the internal slot to use as swap, and put my 8gb card on the 'external' slot, but it seems to be much slower creating the swap file | 04:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd just pick up a decent 4GB card. | 05:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | or another 8GB card | 05:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | they're cheap these days. | 05:00 |
| gregorovius | not down here, sadly | 05:01 |
| gregorovius | U$S50 for a class 6 8gb | 05:02 |
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| gregorovius | and salaries ain't in U$S :) | 05:02 |
| eean | gregorovius: your the kde translator | 05:03 |
| eean | we see your inspiring name from CIA whenever you make a commit in #amarok | 05:03 |
| eean | unless I'm mistaken :) | 05:03 |
| gregorovius | not at all | 05:03 |
| gregorovius | I'm in #amarok, but I haven't translated a single word in my life | 05:04 |
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| eean | ah, so I am | 05:04 |
| eean | :) | 05:04 |
| gregorovius | too bad =P | 05:04 |
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| * eean installs wesnoth | 05:05 | |
| Dsnye | night all! | 05:05 |
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| * KotCzarny installs pancakes | 05:09 | |
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| lcuk | liqbase request: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=227164#post227164 | 05:39 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 05:40 |
| KotCzarny | is it the first release? | 05:40 |
| lcuk | i think here is a good place to draw a line :) | 05:40 |
| lcuk | im off to bed though, gnite | 05:41 |
| KotCzarny | nite nite | 05:41 |
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| Navi | :) | 05:47 |
| Navi | :) | 05:47 |
| Navi | :) | 05:47 |
| eean | bah how am I ever going to find the space to install wesnoth :D | 05:48 |
| KotCzarny | clone to sd | 05:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~boot-sd | 05:48 |
| infobot | from memory, boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card | 05:48 |
| eean | ah | 05:48 |
| Navi | GeneralAntilles, http://rafb.net/p/REDs4o86.html | 05:48 |
| eean | I tried just having a symlink to /media/mmc2 | 05:48 |
| eean | but its vfat and it didn't like its permissionlessness | 05:49 |
| Navi | GeneralAntilles, look at teh link | 05:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Navi, you be crazy. | 05:49 |
| Navi | GeneralAntilles, I am totally not crazy. | 05:49 |
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| KotCzarny | eean, you can link from ext*/jffs2 to vfat | 05:49 |
| Navi | Anyone want to run percentages on ":)" usages? | 05:50 |
| KotCzarny | other way round not, but this way yes | 05:50 |
| eean | KotCzarny: yea I did, but wesnoth-data needs to change the permissions of a font directory or something | 05:50 |
| eean | and it aborts when it can't | 05:50 |
| KotCzarny | bug the author of the port :) | 05:50 |
| KotCzarny | and i think there were versions for data on mmc* | 05:50 |
| eean | well they aren't in the repo | 05:53 |
| eean | is there even a process to bug the author of a package or just cyberstalking? | 05:53 |
| KotCzarny | hmm | 05:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just email them. | 05:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maintainer if is in the package. | 05:54 |
| KotCzarny | you can try mounting vfat with quiet option | 05:54 |
| KotCzarny | mount -o remount,quiet /media/mmc2 | 05:54 |
| KotCzarny | (or 1) | 05:54 |
| KotCzarny | it shouldn't report errors about chmod/chown then | 05:54 |
| eean | hey cool :) | 05:54 |
| eean | that sounds easy | 05:54 |
| lcuk | kot, do you fancy grabbin a 75mb from my ftp and finding a host online for it - youtube is bein crap | 05:54 |
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| KotCzarny | lcuk, temporary host ? | 05:55 |
| KotCzarny | or rapidshare etc? | 05:55 |
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| lcuk | i dunno, i can barely work youtube :D | 05:55 |
| KotCzarny | http://rapidshare.com/ | 05:56 |
| lcuk | somewhere just to put it on the thread | 05:56 |
| lcuk | arghhh im already way late, ill leave it, gnite | 05:56 |
| KotCzarny | k | 05:56 |
| KotCzarny | it's on ftp? | 05:56 |
| eean | KotCzarny: I still get operation not permitted :/ | 05:56 |
| KotCzarny | eean, remounted proper partition? | 05:57 |
| eean | yep | 05:57 |
| KotCzarny | other options could be exec | 05:57 |
| KotCzarny | maybe it tries to put execs there too | 05:57 |
| lcuk | yes | 05:58 |
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| KotCzarny | k, i'll see what i can do | 05:58 |
| lcuk | thx :) | 05:58 |
| eean | it sounds like quiet should work based on the mount man page | 05:58 |
| KotCzarny | i'll post the link on itt too | 05:58 |
| eean | trying now with exec | 05:58 |
| eean | guess it won't work, the specific error is "error setting ownership" | 05:59 |
| KotCzarny | unless it's trying to make symlinks/hardlinks | 05:59 |
| KotCzarny | hum | 05:59 |
| eean | hah | 05:59 |
| eean | now it says no space left on device... | 05:59 |
| KotCzarny | :> | 05:59 |
| eean | thats good I guess :) | 05:59 |
| eean | can you replace the internal flash card? | 06:00 |
| KotCzarny | in n800? | 06:00 |
| KotCzarny | yes | 06:00 |
| KotCzarny | in n810 it's soldered | 06:00 |
| eean | n810, yea. good. | 06:00 |
| eean | ah damn | 06:00 |
| eean | :/ | 06:00 |
| eean | was planning on buying two 8gb flash cards | 06:00 |
| KotCzarny | that's what you get for getting n810 instead of n800! | 06:00 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 06:00 |
| eean | sheesh there's 441 megs available on /media/mmc2 | 06:02 |
| eean | seems like that'd be enough | 06:02 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 06:02 |
| eean | ok that error was a fluke | 06:03 |
| eean | back to the ownership issue thing | 06:03 |
| KotCzarny | another trick would be creating big file, ext2/3 on it and mounting via loop | 06:04 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 06:04 |
| eean | well I could just format it as ext3 if I want to go through that trouble | 06:04 |
| KotCzarny | or simply reformat/repartition internal sd in your n810 | 06:05 |
| eean | I don't need vfat for anything do I? | 06:05 |
| eean | I understand vfat is more efficient for small parititions though | 06:05 |
| KotCzarny | is it? | 06:05 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 06:05 |
| eean | it'd make sense | 06:05 |
| KotCzarny | it's simple | 06:05 |
| eean | vfat is old and not error tolerant :) | 06:05 |
| KotCzarny | and stupid a little | 06:06 |
| Kegetys | the only reason for it is that you can use the device as usb mass storage | 06:06 |
| eean | I use linux mostly though | 06:06 |
| KotCzarny | kegetys: with windows | 06:06 |
| KotCzarny | you wanted to add | 06:06 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 06:06 |
| Kegetys | KotCzarny: and various other devices that only support fat | 06:06 |
| KotCzarny | yes | 06:06 |
| eean | well this is my completely-not-removable-since-its-a-810 flash :) | 06:06 |
| Kegetys | it is usable as mass storage with the usb cable that comes with the device | 06:07 |
| KotCzarny | anyone had internal sd failed in n810? | 06:07 |
| eean | Kegetys: it'd still be usable with an ext3 though right? | 06:07 |
| Kegetys | eean: I guess it should, assuming what you'd use it with supports ext3 | 06:08 |
| KotCzarny | eean, it's the same situation as formatting usb stick with ext2/3 | 06:08 |
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| KotCzarny | also | 06:08 |
| eean | right | 06:08 |
| KotCzarny | there is ifs driver for ext2/3 for windows | 06:09 |
| KotCzarny | which pretty much works as expected | 06:09 |
| KotCzarny | hmm | 06:10 |
| KotCzarny | that wesnoth looks interesting | 06:10 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 06:10 |
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| eean | yea wesnoth is awesome | 06:13 |
| derf | It's _really_ slow, though. | 06:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | A lot better with swap on. | 06:20 |
| derf | I can't even run it with swap off. | 06:21 |
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| Navi | going from the desktop wesnoth to on the tablet is really painful | 06:28 |
| Navi | it's slow; that's all there is to it. | 06:28 |
| KotCzarny | It's sweeping the country with spinner rims! Is it coming towards you? Darius Goes West. Know about it. | 06:30 |
| KotCzarny | O.o | 06:30 |
| KotCzarny | i wonder if it's the same Darius | 06:31 |
| KotCzarny | o.O | 06:31 |
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| jeff2 | Hello | 07:17 |
| johnx | hi | 07:18 |
| jeff2 | Forgive me if I am barging in, using a web based this particular web based IRC chat client for the first time | 07:18 |
| jeff2 | and not sure if its showing me everything... | 07:18 |
| jeff2 | Is there an existing maemo chat going on right now? | 07:19 |
| johnx | nothing formal | 07:19 |
| johnx | we just kind of sit here and talk back and forth, usually about maemo, sometimes about other stuff | 07:19 |
| johnx | it's pretty quiet right now though | 07:20 |
| johnx | have a question? | 07:20 |
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| jeff2 | cool, yes I do | 07:20 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 07:20 |
| qnr-lt | well, I'm talking to myself about Maemo, but that doesn't really count as far as IRC goes | 07:20 |
| jeff2 | I'm running Diablo on a n810 and seem to have lost access to /dev/camera0 | 07:20 |
| jeff2 | and all camera functionality | 07:20 |
| KotCzarny | i think webchat should include some dislaimer | 07:20 |
| jeff2 | Camera 3.5, gps camera and aMSN | 07:21 |
| KotCzarny | *disclaimer | 07:21 |
| jeff2 | any thoughts? | 07:21 |
| KotCzarny | jeff2: check dmesg? | 07:21 |
| sneakret | jeff2: It's busted. | 07:21 |
| sneakret | ;) | 07:21 |
| KotCzarny | any error messages? | 07:21 |
| johnx | jeff2, hmm...I've heard of that problem. There's a thread on ITT (internettablettalk.com/forums) but I don't know if there was a resolution | 07:21 |
| sneakret | <- helper | 07:21 |
| jeff2 | nope, checked in /var/log | 07:21 |
| KotCzarny | i think /var/log is not used | 07:22 |
| KotCzarny | to save space etc | 07:22 |
| jeff2 | nothing there, didn't see anything else shouting put at me, but have'nt tracked down any other logs yet | 07:22 |
| jeff2 | did a grep on "camera" from / | 07:22 |
| KotCzarny | you may try using mencoder or vlc | 07:22 |
| KotCzarny | to test camera functionality | 07:22 |
| jeff2 | but nothing showed up after 5-10 minutes before I killed it (I was looking for other logs) | 07:22 |
| KotCzarny | are you proficient with shell ? | 07:22 |
| sneakret | mencoder can pull from the camera? | 07:22 |
| jeff2 | yes | 07:22 |
| sneakret | Awesome. | 07:22 |
| KotCzarny | sneakret: wanna cmdline i use? | 07:23 |
| sneakret | Yes! | 07:23 |
| sneakret | I bet jeff2 does too. ;) | 07:23 |
| KotCzarny | just a moment | 07:23 |
| jeff2 | :-) | 07:23 |
| KotCzarny | i have to find the script | 07:23 |
| jeff2 | no resolution on the iit forum yet | 07:24 |
| KotCzarny | mrrau.dyndns.org:24080/n800/cam.go | 07:24 |
| KotCzarny | quick and dirty but worked for me around spring | 07:25 |
| KotCzarny | if default mencoder isn't compiled with tv:// you may get my build | 07:25 |
| KotCzarny | from binaries | 07:25 |
| KotCzarny | on the same site | 07:25 |
| KotCzarny | or just compile mplayer/mencoder yourself enabling it | 07:26 |
| KotCzarny | jeff2: can it be some hung app blocking /dev/video0 ? | 07:27 |
| jeff2 | /dev/video0 was missing | 07:28 |
| KotCzarny | something removed it? | 07:28 |
| jeff2 | i remade it using an simular ubuntu command | 07:28 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 07:28 |
| jeff2 | but that was a bit of cut and paste/pray magic | 07:28 |
| KotCzarny | yeah, device nodes are the same | 07:29 |
| KotCzarny | because it's quite standard linux distro | 07:29 |
| KotCzarny | (maemo) | 07:29 |
| jeff2 | v4l | 07:29 |
| KotCzarny | v4l2 | 07:29 |
| KotCzarny | to be exact | 07:29 |
| jeff2 | i assumed | 07:29 |
| jeff2 | ok | 07:29 |
| KotCzarny | you may recompile kernel | 07:29 |
| KotCzarny | to enable v4l1 compaibility | 07:29 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 07:29 |
| KotCzarny | *compatibility | 07:29 |
| KotCzarny | although last time i tried only mencoder/mplayer was able to use it | 07:30 |
| KotCzarny | from stock linux apps | 07:30 |
| johnx | so, interesting thought: I'm on an n800 and I still have my /dev/video0 device | 07:31 |
| johnx | jeff2, did it ever work for you under diablo? | 07:31 |
| jeff2 | not 100% sure | 07:31 |
| jeff2 | i think so though | 07:31 |
| jeff2 | I might end up reflashing | 07:31 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 07:31 |
| KotCzarny | well | 07:31 |
| KotCzarny | try to find the cause | 07:31 |
| jeff2 | if it's nothing that people have an easy answer to | 07:31 |
| jeff2 | yeah | 07:31 |
| johnx | jeff2, people on itt tried reflashing it seems | 07:32 |
| jeff2 | there was the comment on itt forums 2 other folks with seem problem | 07:32 |
| jeff2 | i added to it last night | 07:32 |
| jeff2 | no answers for them | 07:32 |
| KotCzarny | maybe device node got renamed? | 07:32 |
| KotCzarny | ls -l /dev/vid* ? | 07:32 |
| jeff2 | i did install in red pill mode amsn | 07:32 |
| johnx | KotCzarny, nope. works for some people | 07:32 |
| johnx | KotCzarny, and the apps all look for /dev/video0 | 07:32 |
| jeff2 | but that was the only weird thing I've done on the tablet since reflashing diablo | 07:33 |
| jeff2 | everything else was stock / from standard repos | 07:33 |
| KotCzarny | standard repos can do stupid things too | 07:33 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 07:33 |
| jeff2 | :-) | 07:33 |
| johnx | jeff2, dmesg | grep omap24xxcam | 07:33 |
| KotCzarny | if some dev package slips in | 07:33 |
| johnx | jeff2, are you using the official diablo kernel? | 07:34 |
| jeff2 | yes | 07:34 |
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| jeff2 | no omap in dmesg output | 07:35 |
| sneakret | Whoa. I don't have mencoder installed. That's surprising. | 07:35 |
| KotCzarny | yeah | 07:36 |
| KotCzarny | because it's not compiled by default | 07:36 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 07:36 |
| KotCzarny | i did my own compile from the ssvb's sources | 07:37 |
| KotCzarny | fixing camera.c in one or two places | 07:37 |
| KotCzarny | trivial fix | 07:37 |
| sneakret | For what it's worth, my n810's camera works in Diablo. | 07:38 |
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| jeff2 | thanks (I'm assume it does for most folks) | 07:38 |
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| sneakret | For some reason I expected mencoder to be included with mplayer. Silly me. | 07:38 |
| jeff2 | I think mine broke | 07:38 |
| sneakret | My GPS still can't get a fix though. | 07:38 |
| sneakret | :( | 07:38 |
| jeff2 | ha | 07:39 |
| sneakret | So far the GPS has been completely useless for me. | 07:39 |
| KotCzarny | sneakret: tried from the roof? | 07:39 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 07:39 |
| sneakret | Haha. | 07:39 |
| KotCzarny | seriously | 07:39 |
| KotCzarny | at least you will know it's not doa | 07:39 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 07:39 |
| jeff2 | i can get it outside, but not inside for the most part, tried on a bus last weekend | 07:39 |
| jeff2 | first time no lock for 2 hours | 07:40 |
| sneakret | Oh. Well, I've managed to get it to work a couple times. | 07:40 |
| jeff2 | 2nd time, lock in 10 minutes, even with agps primed | 07:40 |
| sneakret | but yeah... it takes ages. | 07:40 |
| RST38h | Maybe you selected wrong location in agps? | 07:40 |
| sneakret | Hmm... | 07:41 |
| sneakret | I usually just try from the control panel. | 07:41 |
| jeff2 | okay, we thanks everyone, I think its time to reflash | 07:41 |
| johnx | jeff2, update the thread if that fixes it :) | 07:42 |
| jeff2 | I appreaciae your help. | 07:42 |
| jeff2 | will do | 07:42 |
| sneakret | jeff2: Good luck! | 07:42 |
| johnx | and come back here if it doesn't :) | 07:42 |
| jeff2 | thanks, I'll be back, good speaking with you all | 07:42 |
| johnx | 'later | 07:42 |
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| sneakret | RST38h: Installed agps-ui. That helped immensely. Thanks. | 07:52 |
| sneakret | KotCzarny: so... yeah, I'm interested in your mencoder binary. | 07:55 |
| KotCzarny | as i said, it's in binaries/ subdir | 07:55 |
| sneakret | Oh, I missed that. Thanks! | 07:55 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 07:55 |
| KotCzarny | also, that mplayer there has also tv:// enabled | 07:56 |
| KotCzarny | easier for testing camera | 07:56 |
| KotCzarny | or just making n8x0 a mirror | 07:56 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 07:56 |
| sneakret | Cool. :) | 07:59 |
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| mdg | hello | 08:07 |
| summatusmentis | hi | 08:07 |
| mdg | I'm stuck trying to install osso xerm on 770 running hackeros2007 | 08:08 |
| mdg | I keep getting operation failed | 08:09 |
| mdg | anyone got any idea why? | 08:11 |
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| mdg | Maybe Ijust need to give it a rest tonight. | 08:13 |
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| sneakret | Is there an easy way to make MicroB open URLs in a new window when using bookmarks or mis? (And has anyone made an "Open URL" mis tool?) | 08:21 |
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| KotCzarny | middle click? | 08:21 |
| KotCzarny | (just kidding) | 08:21 |
| sneakret | :) | 08:22 |
| KotCzarny | don't know, shift-click ? | 08:22 |
| sneakret | I want that as the default behavior. | 08:23 |
| KotCzarny | about:config | 08:23 |
| sneakret | It sucks when I have a web page open and opening a bookmark or performing a search browses away from it. | 08:23 |
| sneakret | I looked through about:config and didn't see anything promising. | 08:24 |
| KotCzarny | hum | 08:24 |
| sneakret | (also, it seemed to be read-only) | 08:24 |
| GAN800 | No way to do it as of right now | 08:24 |
| KotCzarny | well, there is source of microb? | 08:25 |
| GAN800 | part of the reasoning is that having more than a few browser windows open at a time is a real RAM killer with only 128MB to work with. | 08:25 |
| sneakret | Yeah. Swap helps... | 08:25 |
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| GAN800 | If you swap too much, you end up in basically the same non-responsive state as oom. | 08:26 |
| sneakret | Does WebKit look promising? | 08:26 |
| sneakret | GAN800: True, but if you have idle browsers, they swap out nicely. | 08:26 |
| GAN800 | Not anytime soon | 08:26 |
| sneakret | What about opening a URL from mis? :) | 08:26 |
| GAN800 | MicroB's still on the old Gecko alpha | 08:26 |
| GAN800 | So it'll improve a _lot_ in resource usage as its brought up to speed with trunk. | 08:27 |
| sneakret | Nice. | 08:27 |
| GAN800 | Though it may be a while before the most recent round of js improvemens make it to ARM. | 08:28 |
| Pavlov | tracemonkey is running on ARM now | 08:28 |
| Pavlov | we're seeing a bit ovre a 2x speedup | 08:28 |
| sneakret | Nice. | 08:29 |
| GAN800 | Oh? That's good to know. | 08:29 |
| Pavlov | but tons of work is going on now that should make that way faster | 08:29 |
| sneakret | That should make gmail usable. | 08:29 |
| KotCzarny | i think main speedup would come from reducing memory usage | 08:29 |
| KotCzarny | :> | 08:29 |
| GAN800 | Now we just need it in MicroB. | 08:29 |
| sneakret | (in standard mode) | 08:29 |
| Pavlov | memory usage is a lot better in firefox 3 than in the build they used | 08:30 |
| sneakret | Hmm.. canola2 and libbz2-1.0 are failing to update. :( | 08:30 |
| Pavlov | and even better now | 08:30 |
| GAN800 | sneakret, not all of Canola's dependencies have been uploaded yet. | 08:31 |
| sneakret | GAN800: Ah... okay. | 08:31 |
| sneakret | Thanks. | 08:31 |
| GAN800 | It's what you get for using Extras-devel. ;) | 08:31 |
| sneakret | Attempting to update libbz results in "Application packages missing: libbz2-1.0 (= 1.0.3-1) | 08:32 |
| sneakret | " | 08:32 |
| GAN800 | FBReader? | 08:32 |
| Pavlov | GAN800: http://blog.vlad1.com/2008/09/11/tracemonkey-coming-to-a-pocket-near-you/ | 08:33 |
| sneakret | Yeah, I have FBReader installed. | 08:33 |
| GAN800 | sneakret, try deleting its repo? | 08:36 |
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| Khertan_n810 | Hi ! | 08:38 |
| Khertan_n810 | does someone with chaintool can compile for me the opensync framework ? | 08:39 |
| Khertan_n810 | and his python binding ? | 08:39 |
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| sneakret | GAN800: Thanks. | 08:50 |
| sneakret | You know stuff. | 08:51 |
| summatusmentis | he knows too much stuff | 08:52 |
| Khertan_n810 | :) | 08:52 |
| Khertan_n810 | MarshallAntilles: why made the meeting on saturday ? | 08:53 |
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| aquatix | morning all | 09:01 |
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| aquatix | hm, odd, if i try to update libxml2, it wants to remove osso-software-version-rx44 | 09:02 |
| GAN800 | aquatix, strict depends | 09:03 |
| GAN800 | find o-s-v-rx44-unlocked | 09:03 |
| aquatix | yeah, noticed | 09:03 |
| GAN800 | Khertan_n810, I was sleepinp. ;) | 09:04 |
| Khertan_n810 | :) | 09:04 |
| Khertan_n810 | so good morning | 09:06 |
| aquatix | hm, now libxml2 wanted to install, but on dist-upgrade apt says `osso-af-startup: depends osso-af-utils (>=1.16-1) not going to be installed); osso-core-config not going to be installed' | 09:06 |
| aquatix | morning Khertan_n810, GAN800 :) | 09:07 |
| GAN800 | Sounds bad | 09:07 |
| aquatix | does it? | 09:08 |
| * aquatix has no idea what exactly those packages are | 09:08 | |
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| fiekia | i like my nokia. i use it to chat on irc while i poop | 09:16 |
| aquatix | thank you for sharing that information ;) | 09:17 |
| fiekia | pfft at newspapers!!! this is the new mellinium | 09:17 |
| * KotCzarny does that too | 09:17 | |
| KotCzarny | + i play games while there | 09:17 |
| KotCzarny | good stuff | 09:17 |
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| * aquatix generally browses news, reads mail or a book | 09:18 | |
| * Proteous reminds himself to never handle fiekia's or KotCzarny's nokia | 09:18 | |
| aquatix | :) | 09:18 |
| KotCzarny | good! | 09:18 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 09:18 |
| Proteous | :P | 09:18 |
| KotCzarny | i shall put that info on the case | 09:19 |
| KotCzarny | it will keep it safe from 'borrowers' :> | 09:19 |
| fiekia | going to set my wallpaper to "i poop with this" | 09:19 |
| KotCzarny | i used to use some chinese tetris game | 09:19 |
| Proteous | lol | 09:19 |
| KotCzarny | but once i tried nokia while pooping | 09:20 |
| aquatix | wtf, i already have osso-af-utils 1.17-1 | 09:20 |
| KotCzarny | i won't go back | 09:20 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 09:20 |
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| sneakret | gan800: got a blog? | 09:20 |
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| aquatix | hm, with tetris i would sit there for hours | 09:20 |
| KotCzarny | yup | 09:21 |
| GAN800 | sneakret, http://maemo.org/community/council ;) | 09:21 |
| KotCzarny | especially that i'm very good at it | 09:21 |
| KotCzarny | (tetris) | 09:21 |
| fiekia | aquatix, i had tetris on my old phone | 09:21 |
| aquatix | KotCzarny: install tetris on your NIT | 09:21 |
| KotCzarny | nah | 09:21 |
| fiekia | it was awesome | 09:21 |
| sneakret | cool | 09:21 |
| KotCzarny | controls are flunky | 09:21 |
| KotCzarny | for high speed game | 09:21 |
| aquatix | hm, true | 09:21 |
| KotCzarny | but my n-gage plays it just right | 09:21 |
| KotCzarny | (s-tris) | 09:21 |
| aquatix | make a usb controller | 09:21 |
| fiekia | nit??? | 09:22 |
| KotCzarny | nokia internet tablet | 09:22 |
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| KotCzarny | :) | 09:22 |
| KotCzarny | get used to it | 09:22 |
| sneakret | ever played touchtris? (it's called something else now, for trademark reasons) | 09:22 |
| KotCzarny | nah | 09:22 |
| jaska | sounds perverted | 09:22 |
| KotCzarny | i'm hard player | 09:22 |
| KotCzarny | i'm afraid i would ruin the screen | 09:22 |
| sneakret | that's a great touchscreen Tetris | 09:22 |
| sneakret | no NIT version though | 09:24 |
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| sneakret | you rotate the pieces by dragging and relying on their inertia | 09:24 |
| KotCzarny | i know | 09:25 |
| sneakret | cool | 09:25 |
| KotCzarny | looks great | 09:25 |
| jaska | like pinch one part and wait it to rotate around that? | 09:25 |
| KotCzarny | but is it precise? | 09:25 |
| KotCzarny | jaska: kind of | 09:25 |
| KotCzarny | just imagine dragging real blocks | 09:25 |
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| KotCzarny | on the ice | 09:25 |
| aquatix | ah, touchbricks it's called now | 09:25 |
| sneakret | yeah, that's it. | 09:26 |
| * aquatix had blueblocks on his palm | 09:26 | |
| aquatix | could play against an other palm over bluetooth | 09:26 |
| sneakret | not sure what you mean by precise | 09:26 |
| KotCzarny | i think i should convince lcuk to implement gravitris | 09:26 |
| KotCzarny | he is good at stuff | 09:26 |
| KotCzarny | sneakret: i mean doing 2-5 blocks in a second | 09:27 |
| KotCzarny | correctly | 09:27 |
| sneakret | it provides pixel-level positioning, then rounds the positions.. | 09:27 |
| Proteous | while wearing a tinfoil hat | 09:27 |
| sneakret | 5 a sec is tough | 09:28 |
| Proteous | in a lightning storm | 09:28 |
| KotCzarny | tinfoil gloves | 09:28 |
| KotCzarny | for you | 09:28 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 09:28 |
| Proteous | while pooping | 09:28 |
| KotCzarny | while catching gps signal | 09:28 |
| aquatix | smoke-generating ones | 09:28 |
| Proteous | on KotCzarny's toilet | 09:28 |
| sneakret | definitely not as precise as keyboard | 09:28 |
| KotCzarny | sneakret: yeah. then it's just a toy | 09:28 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 09:28 |
| aquatix | generating electricity from the bezerk button mashing | 09:28 |
| * Proteous cries for a decent d-pad on his n810 | 09:29 | |
| * Proteous also cries for a decent video chip | 09:29 | |
| KotCzarny | btw. anyone interested in playing multiplayer tetris on nokias/xwindows ? | 09:29 |
| Proteous | only if you let me win | 09:29 |
| KotCzarny | once is enough? | 09:29 |
| sneakret | KotCzarny: I assume you've played netris | 09:29 |
| KotCzarny | sneakret: nope, xtris | 09:29 |
| Proteous | I like pooptris | 09:29 |
| KotCzarny | pooptris is better played alone | 09:30 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 09:30 |
| Proteous | stinktris | 09:30 |
| aquatix | there, now only canola2 beta10 doesn't want to install yet | 09:30 |
| sneakret | does xtris give all players the same blocks? | 09:30 |
| Proteous | 2 nokias 1 cup | 09:30 |
| KotCzarny | O.o | 09:30 |
| aquatix | ewww | 09:30 |
| * aquatix leaves :) | 09:30 | |
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| Proteous | heh | 09:30 |
| KotCzarny | chicken | 09:30 |
| sneakret | That's something I like about netris | 09:30 |
| KotCzarny | take it like a man! | 09:30 |
| aquatix | nah, time for breakfast | 09:30 |
| aquatix | weird moment though | 09:30 |
| jaem | hello all | 09:30 |
| KotCzarny | sneakret i think yes | 09:30 |
| KotCzarny | but it was long time ago | 09:31 |
| sneakret | Cool. | 09:31 |
| aquatix | tetrinet client would be interesting | 09:31 |
| KotCzarny | (during my uni) | 09:31 |
| Proteous | howdy jaem | 09:31 |
| Proteous | unicycletris | 09:31 |
| jaem | I just picked up an N810 last week, and I had a quesion about how Maemo handles the filesystem... | 09:31 |
| KotCzarny | brokeback mountris | 09:31 |
| sneakret | tetrinet doesn't give everyone the same pieces | 09:31 |
| aquatix | hm | 09:32 |
| Proteous | jaem, very carefully | 09:32 |
| KotCzarny | jaem: jffs2 + vfat | 09:32 |
| KotCzarny | + optional ext2/3 | 09:32 |
| sneakret | it's fun, but not quite as fair | 09:32 |
| jaem | specifically, I'd like to mount my internal card as /usr - I know how to do this, but I'm wondering what level of borkage could ensue | 09:32 |
| KotCzarny | some people created other fs's modules | 09:32 |
| KotCzarny | jaem: don't | 09:32 |
| jaem | ah | 09:32 |
| KotCzarny | better clone to sd | 09:32 |
| jaem | I wondered | 09:32 |
| KotCzarny | whole sys | 09:32 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 09:32 |
| sneakret | I've tried | 09:32 |
| jaem | okay - I'll read up on that | 09:32 |
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| KotCzarny | i think it's called 'boot from sd' | 09:32 |
| KotCzarny | nowadays | 09:32 |
| sneakret | mounting /usr | 09:32 |
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| jaem | yeah, I saw that, but I haven't looked into it yet | 09:33 |
| Proteous | mountris | 09:33 |
| sneakret | haha | 09:33 |
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| KotCzarny | sneakret: i like sending random blocks to others when completing lines in xtris | 09:33 |
| KotCzarny | i'm fast | 09:33 |
| KotCzarny | so they feel the pain | 09:33 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 09:33 |
| KotCzarny | and then order of blocks doesn't matter | 09:33 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 09:33 |
| jaem | also... I have Gmail set up for IMAP with the built-in e-mail client, configured to download the last 200 messages only... | 09:34 |
| Proteous | I like recompliling the binary I give to my opponent and slightly changing it so they never get long blocks | 09:34 |
| jaem | but it downloads messages scattered over my whole history of using Gmail | 09:34 |
| Proteous | yeah | 09:34 |
| Proteous | I haven't had much fun with IMAP either | 09:34 |
| jaem | e.g. some from every year since '04, rather than the /last/ 200 | 09:34 |
| aquatix | that *might* be a gmail issue | 09:34 |
| jaem | I'd use a different e-mail client, but I like the integration of the built-in one | 09:35 |
| jaem | oh? | 09:35 |
| aquatix | or do other people have that with regular imap accounts too? | 09:35 |
| * aquatix should try it himself | 09:35 | |
| mavhc | how have you configured it to dl the last 200 only? | 09:35 |
| sneakret | netris puts clutter on bottom of the opponent's field when you clear rows. Clearing 1 row does nothing. Clearing 2 sends 1 row. Clearing 3 sends 2. Clearing 4 sends 4. All rows sent at once have a vertical empty slot. | 09:35 |
| Proteous | super puzzle fighter turbo 2 FTW | 09:36 |
| sneakret | so you can get into a mode where you're swapping 4 rows repeatedly | 09:36 |
| jitu3485 | hi, can I install liblocation (location framework) on my desktop ? | 09:36 |
| jaem | mavhc: it was in the config dialog - I can check where exactly, if you want | 09:36 |
| KotCzarny | xtris just drops the horizontal line of 1x1 blocks | 09:36 |
| KotCzarny | more if you completed more lines | 09:36 |
| * jaem curses lack of wifi in his room | 09:36 | |
| aquatix | jaem: retrieval limit in Account settings right? | 09:37 |
| jaem | I believe so | 09:37 |
| aquatix | seems to work correctly with my dovecot setup | 09:37 |
| mavhc | ah, never saw that, I ended up archiving lots of my gmail inbox instead | 09:38 |
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| jaem | well, unfortunately, I can't check right now - I somehow managed to kill my wireless router, and now I havet o go wheedle the lab tech at my uni into letting me borrow a good jtag cable :P | 09:38 |
| aquatix | except that it still loads all mail from a subfolder | 09:38 |
| aquatix | oh well | 09:38 |
| jaem | I know this has been beaten to death already (many times), but what exactly /is/ the status of the GPS time-to-initial-fix in Diablo on the N810? I've read everything I can find, and haven't found anything conclusive... meanwhile, it still is darn slow | 09:39 |
| * jaem apologizes for asking /that/ question | 09:40 | |
| RST38h | status is 40 seconds with agps | 09:40 |
| jaem | ah | 09:40 |
| jaem | and that requires wifi, right? | 09:41 |
| jaem | (and thanks for your precision) | 09:41 |
| RST38h | requires at least gprs initially | 09:41 |
| jaem | right | 09:41 |
| RST38h | seems to work fine without uplink afterwards | 09:41 |
| jaem | and without net access of some sort, what am I looking at? I have a friend that needs to borrow it this week, so she can add something about GPS to her resume | 09:42 |
| aquatix | a few minutes i guess, depening on the amount of satellites visible | 09:43 |
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| jaem | kk | 09:43 |
| jaem | I appreciate the help - reading through endless forums/mailing lists is quite tedious, and often still inconclusive | 09:43 |
| sneakret | I have 11 satellites visible. Without installing the agps beta, GPS was badly broken. | 09:45 |
| sneakret | Now it seems pretty speedy. | 09:46 |
| sneakret | quicker than 40 seconds | 09:46 |
| melmoth | jaem: it s _slow_. | 09:46 |
| RST38h | 3-5 minutes without agps | 09:46 |
| * jaem noticed | 09:46 | |
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| melmoth | i never manage to make any sense on how agps was suppose to be better. | 09:46 |
| RST38h | although your mileage may wary | 09:46 |
| melmoth | but maye, this is because my tablet is not paired to any phone :) | 09:46 |
| sneakret | I ran agps, checked a couple boxes, and now GPS works great. | 09:46 |
| jaem | nice | 09:46 |
| sneakret | (This was just tonight.) | 09:47 |
| melmoth | 3-5 minutes without agps is when i m lucky. | 09:47 |
| RST38h | melmoth: you do not need a phone, plain wifi will do | 09:47 |
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| jaem | I'll head out of my dorm in a bit and check it out | 09:47 |
| melmoth | RST38h: i suppose it compare the wifi point or cell phone point against a database to try to guess where it should be located ? | 09:48 |
| melmoth | do you know if Paris is thus mapped ? | 09:48 |
| melmoth | Because this could explain why it "does not work" for me | 09:48 |
| RST38h | melmoth: no. | 09:49 |
| RST38h | melmoth: you manually set agps location on a map, it goes onto internet and downloads gps metadata off some web server. that is all. | 09:50 |
| melmoth | been there, done that. | 09:50 |
| jaem | what sort of metadata? | 09:51 |
| RST38h | sure you have correctly pinpointed paris on the map? | 09:51 |
| RST38h | jaem: ephemerides + almanac | 09:51 |
| melmoth | well,the map cannot be zoomed, so i clicked on france. | 09:51 |
| RST38h | jaem: google for gps wiki for details | 09:51 |
| * jaem goes off to read wikipedia | 09:51 | |
| RST38h | melmoth: i know, it sucks this way...but it does show lat lon for where you click | 09:52 |
| RST38h | at least finding moscow on it is pretty easy :) | 09:52 |
| jaem | I'll go try it out, and let you all know how it goes | 09:54 |
| * jaem will be back in a bit | 09:54 | |
| melmoth | just to be on the safe side, i re used agps while the wifi is on.. Will see what happen next time i g outside | 09:54 |
| RST38h | spare us - you are not even in the second dozen | 09:54 |
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| Proteous | I hear the 4th dozen is where it's at | 09:56 |
| Proteous | it's hoppin in here | 09:57 |
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| tank-man | damn, sdhc prices going down every week, when to buy, when to buy?!? i see 16gb sdhc class6 for $35cad yummy | 10:00 |
| KotCzarny | :> | 10:00 |
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| KotCzarny | buy when you need it | 10:00 |
| KotCzarny | that's the rule | 10:00 |
| KotCzarny | i'm waiting for 32gbs | 10:01 |
| KotCzarny | to be ~50$ | 10:01 |
| * aquatix wants a 32GB microsd | 10:01 | |
| tank-man | ive seen 32gb but at over $200 | 10:01 |
| KotCzarny | yup | 10:01 |
| KotCzarny | i have 12gb of sd and 12gb of cf storage | 10:01 |
| KotCzarny | so i'm good for some time | 10:01 |
| Proteous | which IT has a CF slot? | 10:02 |
| aquatix | the zaurus | 10:03 |
| KotCzarny | every laptop with ide port | 10:03 |
| Proteous | :P | 10:03 |
| KotCzarny | :> | 10:03 |
| * KotCzarny has a double ide-cf adapter | 10:03 | |
| * Proteous has a triple ide-cf adapter | 10:03 | |
| * Proteous connected it to his flux capacitor | 10:03 | |
| * aquatix has a usb card reader | 10:03 | |
| * Proteous travels through time | 10:04 | |
| aquatix | ah great, can you look up some stocks for me? | 10:04 |
| Proteous | get your own time machine! | 10:04 |
| aquatix | i will, after | 10:04 |
| aquatix | gotta make some cash first ;) | 10:04 |
| Proteous | heh | 10:04 |
| mavhc | soon every computer will be flash based, hdd only for NAS | 10:05 |
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| Proteous | I just want an all NVRAM computer please | 10:06 |
| KotCzarny | bad idea | 10:07 |
| Proteous | my storage will be in the cloud | 10:07 |
| KotCzarny | yes, once you change the battery | 10:07 |
| KotCzarny | it will be | 10:07 |
| RST38h | the mushroom cloud? | 10:07 |
| Proteous | the nv stands for non volitile | 10:07 |
| aquatix | KotCzarny: my fission reactor will act as ups | 10:07 |
| Proteous | means it doesn't need power | 10:07 |
| Proteous | to keep state | 10:08 |
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| KotCzarny | :) | 10:08 |
| RST38h | relatively easy to do | 10:08 |
| gomiam | yay! net-split! | 10:08 |
| Proteous | stupid IRC tricks | 10:08 |
| aquatix | \o/ | 10:08 |
| RST38h | no, they are gone to the mushroom cloud | 10:08 |
| Proteous | |o| | 10:08 |
| aquatix | freenode++ | 10:08 |
| Proteous | /o/ | 10:08 |
| Proteous | \o\ | 10:08 |
| KotCzarny | proteous: nonvolatile (* as long your battery is good) | 10:08 |
| mavhc | someone needs to invent a computer you can rewind | 10:08 |
| KotCzarny | fine print my dear, fine print | 10:08 |
| RST38h | nv means no battery though | 10:08 |
| KotCzarny | mavhc: ibm did that | 10:09 |
| gomiam | when a WiFi router works with all devices but my N800 and my N800 works with all WiFi networks but that router, what may be happening? | 10:09 |
| Proteous | KotCzarny: no, nv mean nv | 10:09 |
| KotCzarny | nv means nvidia | 10:09 |
| gomiam | (everything points to the N800 to be gone awry) | 10:09 |
| aquatix | mavhc: ctrl+z or u (in vim)? | 10:09 |
| mavhc | doesn't nvidia mean nvidia? | 10:09 |
| KotCzarny | gomiam: typo? failed dhcp ? | 10:09 |
| mavhc | aquatix: yes, but for the entire system | 10:09 |
| KotCzarny | gomiam: tried static ip? | 10:09 |
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| Proteous | no no, the snozeberries taste like snozeberries | 10:09 |
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| gomiam | KotCzarny: I'll give it a go, but it's annoying since the router serves DHCP for everything else. | 10:10 |
| KotCzarny | snoozeberries? | 10:10 |
| KotCzarny | gomiam: i think dhcp is the main offender | 10:10 |
| Proteous | only n00bs add extra "O"s | 10:10 |
| KotCzarny | when connecting to routers | 10:10 |
| Proteous | NOOOOOBBBSSS | 10:10 |
| aquatix | Proteous: pft, n00b | 10:10 |
| KotCzarny | he has 2 o in his nick | 10:10 |
| KotCzarny | and a P | 10:10 |
| Proteous | but none are extra | 10:11 |
| KotCzarny | which goes after o | 10:11 |
| Proteous | I need both of them dearly | 10:11 |
| KotCzarny | for what? | 10:11 |
| Proteous | to keep your poop covered nokia away | 10:11 |
| Proteous | duh | 10:11 |
| KotCzarny | i flush it, dummy | 10:11 |
| KotCzarny | covering is old method | 10:11 |
| KotCzarny | ancient i say | 10:12 |
| * Proteous doesn't want to know the details | 10:12 | |
| * aquatix pictures KotCzarny holding his nokia inside the toilet while flushing | 10:12 | |
| Proteous | lol | 10:12 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 10:12 |
| gomiam | Oh, I think I saw something. The WiFi network is a WPA-PSK but tcpdump tells me the N800 is sending EAP packets | 10:12 |
| aquatix | not a pretty image | 10:12 |
| KotCzarny | you know, they say toilet is cleaner than door knobs | 10:12 |
| aquatix | gomiam: ah :) | 10:12 |
| KotCzarny | (often) | 10:12 |
| aquatix | KotCzarny: and public keyboards | 10:12 |
| Proteous | luckly I don't eat off of door knobs or toilets | 10:13 |
| KotCzarny | pt: what about public knobs? | 10:13 |
| Proteous | you people are crazy | 10:13 |
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| gomiam | fortunately, I finally bought a Bt keyboard. | 10:13 |
| KotCzarny | nope | 10:13 |
| KotCzarny | i'm just eccentric | 10:13 |
| aquatix | it's just past 9AM and this is our subject... | 10:13 |
| Proteous | IE crazy | 10:13 |
| KotCzarny | 3am here | 10:13 |
| aquatix | :) | 10:13 |
| Proteous | 12:12am here | 10:14 |
| * aquatix should be coding | 10:14 | |
| KotCzarny | 3:14 am | 10:14 |
| gomiam | 09:14 here | 10:14 |
| KotCzarny | to be exact | 10:14 |
| atul | Does Maemo Chinook supports Ondevice Debugging. | 10:14 |
| gomiam | XD | 10:14 |
| aquatix | meeting about it in a few hours | 10:14 |
| KotCzarny | pitime | 10:14 |
| aquatix | KotCzarny: ooh :) | 10:14 |
| KotCzarny | peetime ? | 10:14 |
| KotCzarny | brb | 10:14 |
| aquatix | gomiam: yeah, 9:14 here too | 10:14 |
| Proteous | TMI | 10:14 |
| gomiam | ok, please excuse my ignorance: is there a reason for EAP packets to be sent when establishing a WPA-PSK WiFi session? | 10:16 |
| Proteous | I don't think this is a good channel to be asking that question too | 10:16 |
| jaem | while I was gone: | 10:16 |
| jaem | mavhc: "someone needs to invent a computer you can rewind" | 10:16 |
| jaem | me: they did... I have one sitting on my desk, and takes 20s to load a BASIC "Hello World" program | 10:16 |
| Proteous | try /#wifi | 10:16 |
| gomiam | Proteous: probably not :-) | 10:16 |
| jaem | tape drives aren't as cool as they sound... | 10:17 |
| jaem | :P | 10:17 |
| Proteous | they are when they use audio tape | 10:17 |
| Fatal | X_X | 10:17 |
| KotCzarny | what about tape worms? | 10:17 |
| Proteous | and when you record your program off the radio | 10:17 |
| gomiam | oh dear, #wifi is empty. Well, I guess I'll have to keep Googling XD | 10:17 |
| Proteous | KotCzarny just got back from the bathroom and he is talking about tapeworms | 10:17 |
| Proteous | ... | 10:17 |
| jaem | I think the speed of tape would put a bit of a damper on the worms | 10:17 |
| KotCzarny | gomiam: #wlan ? #wireless ? #wpa ? | 10:17 |
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| jaem | or at least, the speed at which they could propogate [sic[ | 10:18 |
| Proteous | I was just joking about the #wifi | 10:18 |
| gomiam | thanks KotCzarny | 10:18 |
| Proteous | I assume there is some channel of that type, but I don't know what the name is | 10:18 |
| KotCzarny | gomiam: but i guess google is better | 10:18 |
| aquatix | gomiam: it is connecting to the right connection? with no connection saved for it? | 10:18 |
| Proteous | a google search for "EAP WPA-PSK" would probably do the trick | 10:19 |
| gomiam | aquatix: I have tried it both ways, with a preconfigured connection and with autodetection | 10:19 |
| jaem | Proteous: how about this sort of audio tape: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10203 | 10:19 |
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| Proteous | jaem, I want one that comes in a CD formfactor | 10:20 |
| jaem | hehe, that would be the day | 10:20 |
| Proteous | heh | 10:20 |
| gomiam | in both cases it finds the WiFi network and apparently starts setting it up, but it fails to connect in the end | 10:20 |
| jaem | micromirror arrays in a disc | 10:20 |
| gomiam | trying static IP... | 10:20 |
| Proteous | EAP packets seem to be used for radius WPA athentication | 10:20 |
| jaem | actually, my job this summer was flipping bits - but I became redundant when they bought a high-speed inverter | 10:20 |
| KotCzarny | flipping bits? | 10:21 |
| KotCzarny | sounds mind numbing | 10:21 |
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| KotCzarny | and finger numbing too | 10:21 |
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| jaem | I was kidding - it's a joke my friend and I have regarding the quality of the jobs I got this past summer | 10:21 |
| gomiam | Proteous: oh, the router has the ability to use a RADIUS server | 10:21 |
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| gomiam | but none is configured. | 10:21 |
| jaem | analogous to flipping burgers (== lousy, pointless job) | 10:21 |
| KotCzarny | bits can be bits of meat | 10:22 |
| KotCzarny | too | 10:22 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 10:22 |
| Proteous | or bits of human flesh!! | 10:22 |
| jaem | Ground Beef is Ground | 10:22 |
| KotCzarny | he didn't specified what bits he was using | 10:22 |
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| Proteous | are these big endian or little endian bits? | 10:22 |
| jaem | (and, Worn-out Phrasal Template is a worn-out phrasal template) >< sorry | 10:22 |
| KotCzarny | little indian bits | 10:22 |
| KotCzarny | :> | 10:22 |
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| Proteous | no one has ever heard that one before | 10:23 |
| Proteous | heh | 10:23 |
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| Proteous | COMEDY GOLD | 10:23 |
| KotCzarny | beefed up bits | 10:23 |
| Proteous | I like my bits raw | 10:23 |
| jaem | as in, a "2" bit | 10:23 |
| jaem | e.g. magic smoke | 10:23 |
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| KotCzarny | it's a kind of sweet too | 10:23 |
| Proteous | all my computer run in trinary | 10:24 |
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| * Proteous forgets the s | 10:24 | |
| gomiam | Proteous: it works/it doesn't work/it's off? | 10:24 |
| gomiam | XD | 10:24 |
| jaem | ha! | 10:24 |
| KotCzarny | yes, no, maybe | 10:24 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 10:24 |
| Proteous | heh | 10:24 |
| jaem | abort/retry/fail | 10:24 |
| KotCzarny | abort/retry/ignore | 10:24 |
| gomiam | KotCzarny: yes, no, do you really want to know? | 10:24 |
| gomiam | XD | 10:24 |
| KotCzarny | yes, no, not mine? | 10:24 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 10:24 |
| jaem | Which value would you like the bit to have? | 10:25 |
| jaem | [OK] | 10:25 |
| jaem | if you need bits, the founder of Autodesk has some you can have: http://www.fourmilab.ch/hotbits/ | 10:25 |
| KotCzarny | PalmaSutra | 10:25 |
| KotCzarny | O.o | 10:25 |
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| KotCzarny | now in colour | 10:26 |
| KotCzarny | o.O | 10:26 |
| KotCzarny | do we have such thing for nit ? | 10:26 |
| jaem | I guess a guy who can take a russian nuclear icebreaker to the North Pole for an eclipse can afford some nice random, yummy, hot bits | 10:26 |
| gomiam | bleh, still no go.... I don't understand what is it that makes my N800 specifically fail with this router... now (until yesterday it worked flawlessly) | 10:27 |
| KotCzarny | hrm | 10:27 |
| jaem | I've been having problems with WPA2-Enterprise, but that's probably just my uni's stupid network | 10:27 |
| jaem | they try, but they continually fail | 10:27 |
| jaem | at least the unsecured one works | 10:28 |
| jaem | I'm going to fire up some bluetooth goodness to get my N810 on the net in my room, until I can fix my router | 10:29 |
| lcuk | KotCzarny, hows the video ? :) | 10:29 |
| jaem | ...now if I could only find the BT dongle among the mass of hard drives, routers, vintage computers, and robots cluttering up my desk :P | 10:29 |
| KotCzarny | lcuk: youtube was down, so i fired up 'magnolia' for me | 10:29 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 10:29 |
| lcuk | dont mind that, like what you see? | 10:29 |
| KotCzarny | i shall watch it now | 10:30 |
| lcuk | ;) | 10:30 |
| gomiam | ok, time to go. Work awaits | 10:30 |
| gomiam | (computer clone restore, yay....) | 10:30 |
| gomiam | ttyl | 10:30 |
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| KotCzarny | 2451.4 kbps | 10:31 |
| KotCzarny | htm. | 10:31 |
| KotCzarny | hrm. | 10:31 |
| KotCzarny | my poor dsl | 10:31 |
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| KotCzarny | i shall download it then | 10:31 |
| jaem | Beware of buying electronics from sketchy booths... my BT MAC is 11:11:11:11:11:11 >< | 10:33 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 10:33 |
| jaem | is it possible to change (at least temporarily) a bluetooth MAC? | 10:33 |
| KotCzarny | reflash | 10:33 |
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| hrw | morning | 10:33 |
| KotCzarny | with proper init | 10:33 |
| jaem | no - this is my dongle | 10:34 |
| jaem | my NIT is fine | 10:34 |
| hrw | jaem: whats wrong with this mac? | 10:34 |
| KotCzarny | ahm | 10:34 |
| jaem | well, judging by my impression of the company that made it, and the general level of Fail present in the dongle, my guess is that they may not actually have unique MACs | 10:35 |
| KotCzarny | http://www.dorinek.pl/photo/product_small/b/5/5/1_b557b0cf1973.jpg | 10:36 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 10:36 |
| jaem | ha! | 10:36 |
| hrw | jaem: but thats fine as long as you do not have second such dongle in same area | 10:37 |
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| jaem | yeah... like I thought, that MAC isn't registered as belonging to any vendor | 10:37 |
| jaem | well, the were sold at my uni, hence my concern | 10:37 |
| KotCzarny | at least it's not 00:00:00:00:00:00 | 10:37 |
| jaem | come to think of it, the RED bluetooth logo should have been a tip-off | 10:37 |
| jaem | rofl | 10:37 |
| jaska | or ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff | 10:37 |
| jaem | (not to mention the upside-down Windows-compatibility logo) | 10:37 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 10:37 |
| KotCzarny | Check the bdaddr utility that comes with the bluez-utils source | 10:38 |
| jaem | thanks | 10:38 |
| KotCzarny | that's a google result | 10:38 |
| KotCzarny | hadn't tried | 10:38 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:55 |
| jaem | morning | 10:55 |
| X-Fade | Morning Jaffa. | 10:55 |
| jaem | hmm... something tells me that connecting to an unsecured network with SSID "donteventryit" may not be wise - but what the heck! | 10:56 |
| * jaem feels adventureous | 10:57 | |
| jaem | good night/morning everyone | 10:57 |
| KotCzarny | nite nite | 10:57 |
| jaem | thanks for the help, everyone | 10:58 |
| jaem | night | 10:58 |
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| * Jaffa has identified part of the root cause of #3335 and #3542 - I'm a happy man. | 11:07 | |
| KotCzarny | root digger | 11:07 |
| Jaffa | But now I've gone mack to my OS2005-levels of mistrust on backup/restore | 11:07 |
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| jaem | hello again | 11:39 |
| jaem | somehow, the whole "going to bed because it's late" thing didn't work out as planned :D | 11:40 |
| KotCzarny | life | 11:40 |
| jaem | university | 11:40 |
| jaem | and everything | 11:40 |
| jaem | in otherwords, 42 | 11:40 |
| KotCzarny | you will be hurting later | 11:40 |
| jaem | lol | 11:40 |
| jaem | 2:30PM class | 11:40 |
| jaem | not so much | 11:40 |
| lcuk | liqbase overview 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfuY_fglmD8 | 11:40 |
| jaem | so... I set up Telepathy-haze for libpurple integration, but the chat client tries to connect to my MSN contacts using GTalk... and then complains - loudly | 11:41 |
| jaem | however, if they initiate a conversation, it's fine | 11:41 |
| jaem | any ideas on that? | 11:41 |
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| RST38h | moo, lcuk | 11:51 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: You integrated a brwoser? | 11:54 |
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| KotCzarny | ;) | 11:54 |
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| AStorm | is there a new flasher release as well as system release? | 12:02 |
| AStorm | because I'm going to finally update my device to Diablo, now that it has some down time ;) | 12:04 |
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| Jaffa | AStorm: be *very* careful of restoring saved wireless LAN connections: see #3335 and #3542 | 12:30 |
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| hamid | Hi, Can i install maemo on n73 ? | 12:36 |
| X-Fade | hamid: No. | 12:36 |
| hamid | X-Fade: thx :) | 12:36 |
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| AStorm | Jaffa: I won't be restoring backup :) | 12:40 |
| Jaffa | AStorm: to me, that sounds *very* sensible :-( | 12:40 |
| AStorm | trick is, all the data is on card | 12:41 |
| AStorm | and for wlans, I know all the connection data (except one, but there I'll have to get a real account anyway) | 12:41 |
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| AStorm | btw, is there some better daemon to control backlight based on light sensor? | 12:44 |
| AStorm | (more configurable than the default with 5 positions and no possibility to set the function to calculate backlight) | 12:44 |
| AStorm | (two linear functions would be enough for me) | 12:46 |
| AStorm | 3 would be en | 12:46 |
| AStorm | *even better | 12:46 |
| AStorm | or should I write something to do that? | 12:47 |
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| jaem | if you do write something, I'd use it | 13:12 |
| jaem | by the way, is there a way to turn off the warnings that say "Nokia has not blessed this piece of software, use at your own risk"? I know by now that most of my apps are not from Nokia's repos, and I don't really give a darn | 13:13 |
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| pupnik810 | ping -B #maemo | 13:50 |
| solmumaha | hi arnim | 13:52 |
| RST38h | pong | 13:52 |
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| pupnik810 | hi! | 13:57 |
| melmoth | pong too ! | 13:58 |
| pupnik810 | RST38h, vgba 3.6 fixed most of the compat problems | 13:58 |
| pupnik810 | very excited to see the fb0 scaling vedrfsion :) | 14:01 |
| pupnik810 | hi solmumaha, melmoth | 14:01 |
| RST38h | I know | 14:01 |
| RST38h | 3.6.1 will fix the speed | 14:02 |
| RST38h | btw, if you like any of my stuff go vote for it at maemo downloads - lets bring it up into the best software list =) | 14:03 |
| pupnik810 | :) | 14:03 |
| pupnik810 | ok | 14:03 |
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| RST38h | heh, vanhoof is happily proposing to add one more major daemon to the system | 14:26 |
| RST38h | somebody has to stop this madness | 14:26 |
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| X-Fade | RST38h: I read something different? | 14:26 |
| RST38h | xfade: dunno, it is on planet | 14:27 |
| RST38h | xfade: and my comment is there as well | 14:27 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: In any case this will replace metalayer-crawler thingy? | 14:27 |
| RST38h | xfade: no :( | 14:27 |
| mgedmin | the thumbnailer thing? | 14:28 |
| RST38h | crawler crawls mp3 metadata (tags) | 14:28 |
| RST38h | this thing will create image thumnails | 14:28 |
| mgedmin | it sounded sane to me | 14:28 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: I tought it crawels every data. Also images etc? | 14:28 |
| mgedmin | a program asks for a thumbnail (via dbus) | 14:28 |
| RST38h | xfade: afsik not | 14:28 |
| mgedmin | and goes on working interactively | 14:28 |
| RST38h | afaik | 14:28 |
| RST38h | mgedmin is correct | 14:29 |
| mgedmin | while dbus spaswns a thumbnailer and has it work in the background | 14:29 |
| X-Fade | Sure, but that is no runnig daemon. | 14:29 |
| RST38h | and if it does not die, it will create rquested thumbnail and inform the caller | 14:29 |
| X-Fade | Damn, packet loss on my keyboard ;) | 14:29 |
| RST38h | connected to n810? | 14:29 |
| RST38h | there is a bug for that you know | 14:30 |
| X-Fade | This will only help others with not needing to code thumbnailing stuff themselves. | 14:30 |
| X-Fade | I don't see this as a bad thing? | 14:30 |
| RST38h | I am against MORE resident stuff | 14:30 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: This won't be resident. | 14:30 |
| RST38h | maemo already has 3 major resident processes, neither of which works well | 14:31 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: And you really missed a lot of talks at the summit ;) | 14:31 |
| RST38h | I have not missed any of problems with my 810 though:( | 14:31 |
| RST38h | somewhat against more dbus stuff too (although not as much) | 14:32 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: You should really read the article again.. | 14:32 |
| RST38h | I did. | 14:33 |
| X-Fade | And also his previous one: http://pvanhoof.be/blog/index.php/2008/09/07/heres-a-meme-orgfreedesktopthumbnailer | 14:33 |
| RST38h | does nothing to disspell my instability fears | 14:33 |
| RST38h | especially after modest | 14:34 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: It is open software you know ;) | 14:34 |
| RST38h | xfade: it is what comes from nokia by default | 14:34 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Yes, but if you have a problem. You can fix it. | 14:35 |
| RST38h | xfade: my opinion is that all the default stuff from nokia must 100% work | 14:35 |
| RST38h | the rest is open software | 14:35 |
| X-Fade | Kicking against things doesn't help a lot. | 14:36 |
| RST38h | I know. But it does give some minor satisdaction. | 14:36 |
| RST38h | especially the "told you so" stage | 14:37 |
| X-Fade | For you maybe, but a lot of people will eventually put you on their ignore list. | 14:37 |
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| X-Fade | And that can't be a good thing. | 14:37 |
| * RST38h is pretty selfish and will prefer personal satisfaction :) | 14:37 | |
| RST38h | as to pvanhoof or timeless they seem to have automatic ignore on anyone who does not agree with their master plan, so arguing with them is useless | 14:39 |
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| Khertan_n810 | Hello Again (copyright apple inc) | 14:45 |
| RST38h | ehlo | 14:45 |
| lcuk | ACK:220 | 14:46 |
| RST38h | btw, anyone ever got any flash applets to work in diablo? | 14:46 |
| lcuk | hi Khertan_n810 , i am so sorry i missed you when i left - i had a great time and really enjoyed meeting with you :) | 14:47 |
| Khertan_n810 | lcuk: i really enjoying meeting you too | 14:47 |
| lcuk | and you were mostly understandable \o/ | 14:47 |
| Khertan_n810 | :) | 14:47 |
| lcuk | how was the trip back | 14:48 |
| Khertan_n810 | a lot of discuss with loic minier while waiting the boarding at tghe airport | 14:49 |
| Khertan_n810 | and funny to discuss in the plane with two corean | 14:49 |
| Khertan_n810 | which use an iphone | 14:49 |
| lcuk | yes, i think we all came away with lots to think about and to try to achieve | 14:49 |
| Khertan_n810 | and explaining why i prefer the n810 over an iPhone :) | 14:50 |
| lcuk | my explanation is simpler - i stopped finger painting when i was a baby | 14:50 |
| Khertan_n810 | and i ve now enought feedback to know that mCalendar need a syncml synchronisation | 14:50 |
| Khertan_n810 | and you how was your flying back ? | 14:51 |
| Khertan_n810 | i think you get some nokia contacts interested by your demonstration ... | 14:51 |
| lcuk | tiring.. i was slightly delayed leaving tegal, then landed in frankfurt late - was told to RUNNNNNNNN through the airport which i did at top whack (i was like a man possessed, i think its where my sore through has come from) | 14:52 |
| lcuk | the security staff saw my distress and very nicely calmed me down | 14:52 |
| lcuk | and reassured me that i had not missed the flight | 14:52 |
| Khertan_n810 | :) | 14:52 |
| lcuk | i think i did the 4 minute mile ;) | 14:52 |
| Khertan_n810 | héhé | 14:52 |
| Jaffa | Khertan_n810: cool on the syncml thing (does the latest version use alarmd for auto-sync?) | 14:52 |
| lcuk | with a laptop case | 14:53 |
| Khertan_n810 | Jaffa: yep | 14:53 |
| Jaffa | cool | 14:53 |
| lcuk | Khertan_n810, yes, it has piqued the interest of a lot of people :) | 14:53 |
| Khertan_n810 | lcuk: of course as it s really interesting | 14:54 |
| lcuk | i am going to hold all features exactly here and enter a cleanup and extended beta testing phase to iron out any remaining issues (hard written paths initial data inclusions/configuration options etc) | 14:54 |
| Khertan_n810 | Jaffa: i m looking at this time if there is an existing implementation in python to not recreate the wheel | 14:54 |
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| Jaffa | Khertan_n810: cool - I'm surprised of the scarcity of SyncML implementations, last time I looked. | 14:56 |
| lcuk | khertan or anyone else , if you would like to be involved in the testing phase for liqbase (nothing more than running and reporting required) then get your name on the thread here | 14:56 |
| lcuk | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23854 | 14:56 |
| lcuk | theres a new youtube video but you dont get to laugh at my accent this time :D | 14:57 |
| lcuk | its not as slick cos im a bit under the weather but runs over most things as they were at the summit | 14:57 |
| Khertan_n810 | yeah i will test it | 14:58 |
| Khertan_n810 | i m coming back to work | 14:58 |
| Khertan_n810 | bye | 14:58 |
| lcuk | heh, excellent | 14:58 |
| lcuk | cya | 14:58 |
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| lcuk | im goin grabbin lunch anyway | 15:00 |
| lcuk | bbiab | 15:00 |
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| pvanhoof | RST38h, ? | 15:03 |
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| RST38h | nothing | 15:04 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, you understand that this daemon shuts itself down after a moment of inactivity? | 15:04 |
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| pvanhoof | RST38h, that it gets activated by dbus? | 15:04 |
| RST38h | yes, X-Fade explained to me | 15:04 |
| pvanhoof | Ok, so what about the madness that you were referring to? | 15:04 |
| RST38h | still, it is less reliable than a library call | 15:04 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, thumbnailers cal be provided by 3th party developers who might make shitty code that crashes | 15:05 |
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| pvanhoof | RST38h, if a library does it in-process, that means that 3th party developer can make your software crash | 15:05 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: And you want to run third-party thumbnailers as a dbus service> | 15:05 |
| RST38h | ? | 15:05 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, please elaborate on how a library call is more reliable? | 15:05 |
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| RST38h | A library call simply brings your app down. No aftereffects. | 15:06 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, they can run as their own service, yes | 15:06 |
| RST38h | In the worst case, it hangs your app but you can still close it | 15:06 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, isn't that a huge aftereffect?! | 15:06 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, also, A LOT OF apps will be using thumbnails | 15:06 |
| RST38h | No, it is manageable as far as a user is concerned - "Program just died, so I restarted it" | 15:06 |
| pvanhoof | so ALL those apps will crash if a bad 3th party thumbnailer is installed | 15:06 |
| pvanhoof | no it's not managable | 15:07 |
| pvanhoof | on the device the user's process IS ALL | 15:07 |
| RST38h | Now, stuck service is invisible to the user - can't close it, can't see it unless using 3rd party process viewer (and knowing what it is) | 15:07 |
| pvanhoof | if you crash them all, the user has nothing useful anymore | 15:07 |
| pvanhoof | that means 100% and total fail | 15:07 |
| RST38h | The only actual advantage a service has is that you can lower it in priority and avoid total hangup | 15:07 |
| pvanhoof | Since ALL data is installed accessibly by the user, differentiating between root and user makes no difference | 15:07 |
| pvanhoof | sure it can close it | 15:08 |
| RST38h | How? | 15:08 |
| pvanhoof | and it will self-close after a timeout too | 15:08 |
| RST38h | Does stuck Modest self-close after a timeout? | 15:08 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, yuo do know that a daemon that is just running the mainloop, wont even consume any significant amount of battery,for example, right? | 15:08 |
| RST38h | While it is stuck, can you bring it up with a dbus call? | 15:08 |
| RST38h | Yes, but it is not like it will stuck in the mainloop :) | 15:08 |
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| pvanhoof | That's a bug in the program. I don't see how this relates to your concerns | 15:09 |
| pvanhoof | bugs must be fixed | 15:09 |
| pvanhoof | Yuo have a problem, and you think replacing solid architecture with insane architecture will solve it | 15:09 |
| RST38h | My concern is that running large or fundamentally unreliable code as a service is a bad idea | 15:10 |
| RST38h | Using a library call is not insane - it is plain and stupid approach that is known to work | 15:10 |
| pvanhoof | and inprocess with a majority of your applications is a good idea? | 15:10 |
| pvanhoof | no, it IS insane | 15:10 |
| pvanhoof | dude, seriously | 15:10 |
| RST38h | Why is it insane? | 15:10 |
| pvanhoof | know what you are talking about | 15:10 |
| Jaffa | If it's fundamentally unreliable, it *should* be extra-process (and, even better, made not unreliable) | 15:10 |
| pvanhoof | Jaffa, exactly | 15:11 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Not really, if you think about it | 15:11 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, consider this. and DO consider it this time | 15:11 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: If it is fundamentaly unreliable, it will die in or out of the process | 15:11 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: and if it dies in-process it takes all my unsaved work with it. | 15:11 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, 3th party application developers require the possibility to plug-in extra thumbnailers for yet unsupported formats | 15:11 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: So, you better have it die in a place where you can easily clean up after it | 15:11 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, so their potential unreliable code WILL run | 15:11 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: if it dies extra-process, it can be restarted without disrupting my work. | 15:11 |
| pvanhoof | whether you like that or not | 15:11 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Nice assumption :) | 15:12 |
| RST38h | jaffa: Now, let us see how it is really work | 15:12 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, so YOUR solution is to let ALL applications in their OWN process space run THAT unreliable code | 15:12 |
| pvanhoof | right? | 15:12 |
| pvanhoof | And you call that more sane than an activatable daemon doing it | 15:12 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: If that service is doing all the work and it dies, it STILL takes all your work with it :) | 15:12 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: at least browserd does :) | 15:12 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, no it doesn't. It just dies | 15:12 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, your library will take all your work with it | 15:13 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: anything can be killed eventually. For example, it could be added to the watchdog and regularly pinged over dbus | 15:13 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: most of my work isn't being done by a thumbnailer - which is the design being discussed. | 15:13 |
| pvanhoof | Jaffa, is right here | 15:13 |
| pvanhoof | most of his work ain't thumbnailing | 15:13 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Well if it is truly optional then it does not matter if it dies or not (unless it gets stuck in a loop browserd style) | 15:13 |
| pvanhoof | the thumbnailer service can be killed, crashed, whatever, and it wont disrupt his apps | 15:13 |
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| pvanhoof | If this code would run in Jaffa's applications process space, it would kill Jaffa's apps | 15:14 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: But in this case, the developer has to absolutely *guarantee* that the service will terminate | 15:14 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: indeed - and then the only differentiating thing is that IF it does die (which is a bug which should be fixed, anyway) it doesn't take my app with it. | 15:14 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: No, it will just kill one app it is linked to | 15:14 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, but A MAJORITY OF APPS DO | 15:14 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Well if it is a dbus server it won't take its caller out | 15:14 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: So the real issue here is how to avoid it hanging up | 15:14 |
| pvanhoof | Music players, file managers, searchers, browsers (showing thumbs for bookmarks): they all need thumbnailing | 15:15 |
| pvanhoof | so all these would crash | 15:15 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: indeed - but *you* called it "fundamentally unreliable" | 15:15 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Notice that both browserd and modest fail to solve this issue | 15:15 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: In fact, mplayer (called from Canola) fails to solve it too | 15:15 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, you are taking a product that has failed for you, and you are now thinking: if those fail, then all fail | 15:15 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, but you are really not knowing what you are talking about | 15:15 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: I am taking at least 2 *critical* system components and say that they do not work well | 15:16 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, first of all, no application will hang until thumbnailerd responds | 15:16 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: As to my not knowing what I am talking about, this is somewhat incorrect :) | 15:16 |
| pvanhoof | if it gets killed, the application will just get a DBusError, and will either handle that or retry | 15:16 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: No problem with implementing thumbnailer as a service. but only AFTER other critical services are fixed. | 15:16 |
| pvanhoof | Killing the daemon wont kill the apps, at all | 15:16 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, I already replied that a problem that team X has, doesn't mean teams Y and Z must wait | 15:17 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: BTW, should we remember the media crawler as well? How it has a tendency to go into a loop? | 15:17 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: I do not see this as a problem of team XYZ | 15:17 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, if you propose that development methodology, you are just proposing something idiot | 15:17 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: I see it as a problem with a firmware release | 15:17 |
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| pvanhoof | I don't know why you are reading developer's blogs then | 15:18 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: How this problem is solved in house by Nokia is of no particular interest to me a s a user | 15:18 |
| pvanhoof | you should read marketing people's blogs | 15:18 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, yes, as a user, don't read the blogs of developers | 15:18 |
| pvanhoof | read the blogs of marketing people | 15:18 |
| RST38h | But I do *politely* suggest to avoid making the problem worse. | 15:18 |
| pvanhoof | politely, right | 15:18 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: Thank you, I will make my own decision on what I read :) | 15:19 |
| pvanhoof | I'm not forcing you to buy something | 15:19 |
| pvanhoof | Not even working at nokia, except as a contractor | 15:19 |
| RST38h | Actually, once the next software update arrives from nokia, you do | 15:19 |
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| Jaffa | pvanhoof: know of any Nokia marketeer's blogs which they disdcuss future stuff? ;-) | 15:20 |
| RST38h | As I mentioned to XFade before, all the default stuff that comes from Nokia *must* work. | 15:20 |
| pvanhoof | Just said, I'm not employed by nokia. You should complain to marketing people for high-level complaints like: if you don't fix problem X first, don't even think about problems Y and Z!!! | 15:20 |
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| RST38h | pvanhoof: Am I complaining? I am just describing the current situation. | 15:20 |
| pvanhoof | Jaffa, What about quim? | 15:20 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, there's a public bugzilla with products for Modest and the browser | 15:21 |
| RST38h | I can of course repeat this description to Quim but he has probably heard it hundred times before | 15:21 |
| pvanhoof | I seriously don't know why you are constantly whining about those, as they are totally unrelated to thumbnailing | 15:21 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: Should I list to you the bug ids then? :) | 15:21 |
| RST38h | 'cause all the proper bugs are filed | 15:21 |
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| pvanhoof | Well, and as a subcontractor I know that bugs have been solved and are being tested as we speak | 15:22 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: because I expect the thumbnailing to add to the problem | 15:22 |
| pvanhoof | You expect that because you don't know what you are talking about | 15:22 |
| RST38h | On the other hand, I do understand that background thumbnail creation is nice and useful | 15:22 |
| pvanhoof | Yes, and a library will not make your device more stable. Exactly not | 15:23 |
| RST38h | Oh, you do not know how well I know what I am talking about :( Let's not get into this though. | 15:23 |
| pvanhoof | Also | 15:23 |
| RST38h | the library will just take the whole app with it | 15:23 |
| RST38h | not nice but at least controllable | 15:23 |
| pvanhoof | A library would require nokia to write their own license that allows linking with closed things | 15:23 |
| RST38h | Oh | 15:23 |
| pvanhoof | as 3th party developers will want to develop closed thumbnailer plugins | 15:23 |
| RST38h | even an .so? | 15:23 |
| pvanhoof | And if a lot of apps use the thumbnailing | 15:24 |
| pvanhoof | then the bad software will periodically make important apps crash | 15:24 |
| pvanhoof | how is that managable?! | 15:24 |
| pvanhoof | Like, your filemanager will sometimes crash | 15:24 |
| pvanhoof | And then tracker will sometimes crash | 15:25 |
| pvanhoof | And then the image application and the camera app will sometimes crash | 15:25 |
| pvanhoof | Else, we can show you a nice message that says: the app with this info in the package crashed, you want to check for updates or uninstall? | 15:25 |
| pvanhoof | And that app would be the bad 3th party thumbnailer | 15:26 |
| pvanhoof | You tell me, what is most managable? | 15:26 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, "one application sometimes crashes" is not a good answer. Those applications are the crucial backbone of the device. Without them, there's no functional device. They can't just crash | 15:26 |
| * RST38h is ok with applications that sometimes crash | 15:27 | |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, for example if tracker would "just crash" it could corrupt the index database | 15:27 |
| pvanhoof | That means rebuilding it, that means several hours of battery consumption | 15:27 |
| RST38h | That is what happens anyway | 15:27 |
| pvanhoof | Right, so you want an architecture of random(), where sometimes things crash. Sporadically. Instead of always one thing that crashes, that is perfectly identifyable | 15:28 |
| pvanhoof | hey that's great for you | 15:28 |
| pvanhoof | You can flash your device with Windows CE, RST38h | 15:29 |
| pvanhoof | That'll give you that behaviour | 15:29 |
| RST38h | This is as close to calling me names as you have got so far. | 15:32 |
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| RST38h | But anyway, my original statement stays: fix browser, email and (possibly) media crawler first, then add more services | 15:33 |
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| RST38h | [not meaning you personally of course :)] | 15:33 |
| pvanhoof | I'm not involved in email anymore, and the problem (if it's the same problem that I have in mind) has been fixed in recent releases | 15:34 |
| pvanhoof | About browser and media crawler, I don't even know those guys | 15:34 |
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| RST38h | pvanhoof: Recent release no longer busy-loops but it hangs. | 15:34 |
| pvanhoof | Then file a (new) bug about that | 15:34 |
| RST38h | browserd busy loops at the lightest provocation - had to kill it 4 times via ssh just last night | 15:34 |
| pvanhoof | I don't see why you need to piss on the guy specifying a thumbnailer infrastructure | 15:34 |
| pvanhoof | That has absolutely nothing to dow ith this problem of yours | 15:35 |
| RST38h | This is not problem of mine. This is just a problem. | 15:35 |
| pvanhoof | Not even in a single imaginable way. Except that both things run under the same kernel | 15:35 |
| RST38h | The reason why you have been "pissed upon" (wrong choice of words but anyway) is because you suggested introducing more services into the system | 15:35 |
| pvanhoof | Dude, yeaa .. I hear youuoeee | 15:35 |
| pvanhoof | It's unrelated to thumbnailing. Listen | 15:36 |
| pvanhoof | It | 15:36 |
| pvanhoof | is | 15:36 |
| pvanhoof | unrelated | 15:36 |
| pvanhoof | ok? | 15:36 |
| RST38h | ok | 15:36 |
| pvanhoof | thank you | 15:36 |
| RST38h | But if I have to file a bug "hung thumbnailer copies multiply with time" or something similar, you can expect the "told you so" reaction ;) | 15:37 |
| pvanhoof | Introducing services has nothing to do with the problem | 15:38 |
| pvanhoof | The problem of modest was bad initalization of Microb's NSS afaik | 15:38 |
| pvanhoof | For that reason it hung in a lock() | 15:38 |
| pvanhoof | Meaning that the kernel will not even schedule it anymore, but that yes it hangs | 15:38 |
| RST38h | it still does, btw =( | 15:38 |
| pvanhoof | I don't know if they have released packages with the fix yet, as I said, I'm not involved with Email anymore | 15:38 |
| RST38h | not yet, not for the latest bug | 15:38 |
| pvanhoof | Also, modest is not a service. It gets ran as a service by hiding its user interface | 15:38 |
| RST38h | browserd hangups I have traced to something inside it busy-looping with gettimeofday() | 15:39 |
| pvanhoof | But it's not developed as a service, the UI is just not visible | 15:39 |
| RST38h | Possibly Flash player. Which brings a question if *anybody* managed to run *any* flash applet on Diablo? | 15:39 |
| pvanhoof | And modest is opensource, so you can fix this problem too | 15:39 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, actually .. the flash stuff runs in process with the browser | 15:39 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, just like a .so would, actually. In fact, it IS a .so afaik | 15:40 |
| Jaffa | Now I've worked around #3542, I just wish modest had the grouped conversation thing for dealing with the mailing lists | 15:40 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: according to htop it works in process with browserd now | 15:40 |
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| pvanhoof | RST38h, I don't know of a flash plugin that runs in its own process. Except google's recent browser makes the plugins run in their own processes, afaik | 15:40 |
| pvanhoof | But I'm no expert on this | 15:41 |
| pvanhoof | Anyway, the fact that your browser hangs is caused by a 3th party developer: macromedia | 15:41 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: no, the problem there is that the whole browser is now a service | 15:41 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: So if it hangs, you cannot easily kill it | 15:41 |
| pvanhoof | Then make a little python applet that does killall -9 browserd? | 15:42 |
| RST38h | the reason for hanging is not important but given that there is whole Gecko there, there will always be a reason | 15:42 |
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| RST38h | pvanhoof: Sorry but why should I do something like that? Why not fix the browser? | 15:42 |
| pvanhoof | Sure, and that's a reason to say that all services are bad? | 15:42 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, exactly what I'm saying: fix the bug | 15:43 |
| RST38h | Or change the architecture to allow killing it with the close icon | 15:43 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h, you know that your device runs a large amount of services, right? | 15:43 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: 'cause there are problems with at least 3 major services in Maemo | 15:43 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: and there is a certain common trend with these problems | 15:43 |
| pvanhoof | Yes, people whining | 15:43 |
| pvanhoof | Usually people who have no clue | 15:44 |
| RST38h | Look, people would not whine if there won't be any problems | 15:44 |
| RST38h | weren't sorry | 15:44 |
| pvanhoof | But if people don't have a clue, why are they trying to propose an architecture ? especially if that architecture doesn't make sense? | 15:44 |
| pvanhoof | Anyway, I should really let go of this and try to get something done here | 15:45 |
| pvanhoof | one final thing | 15:45 |
| pvanhoof | RST38h as to pvanhoof or timeless they seem to have automatic ignore on anyone who does not agree with their master plan, so arguing with them is useless | 15:45 |
| pvanhoof | You wrote that, right? | 15:45 |
| pvanhoof | You are aware that development of the spec and prototype was done 100% in community mode, that I mailed xdg-list about the spec before the first line of code was written | 15:46 |
| pvanhoof | that a discussion about it took place | 15:46 |
| pvanhoof | You understand that saying that I'm ignoring people is bulls. right? | 15:46 |
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| ShadowJK | with nspluginviewer in firefox, plugins run as a separate process | 15:55 |
| pvanhoof | it's not firefox on the device, right? | 15:55 |
| pvanhoof | Anyway, I don't know how plugins run | 15:55 |
| pvanhoof | But I know it's not related to either modest, thumbnailers, other services | 15:56 |
| ShadowJK | no it isn't | 15:56 |
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| pvanhoof | So I'm categorizing all this as a rant, and continuing my work :) | 15:56 |
| ShadowJK | browserd sounds like a terrible idea, surely it'll just bloat to the point where it would be 50X faster to load a fresh browser instead of trying to swap in random bits of the existing :-) | 15:57 |
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| pvanhoof | I guess it's just the browser's code hiding a UI | 15:58 |
| pvanhoof | I don't consider that to be a service | 15:59 |
| pvanhoof | A service is something you can ask, and it'll perform that for you | 15:59 |
| pvanhoof | s/ask/ask things | 15:59 |
| pvanhoof | You could of course say: I asked it to render a webpage | 15:59 |
| pvanhoof | Hmrr, well .. I still wont consider it to be a service. | 15:59 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, they could just have a small app that keeps all the libraries of gecko mmapped() (dlopen()-ed) | 16:00 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, that would speedup loading the browser drastically too | 16:00 |
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| ranit | hi, is there a way to provide tooltip using Qt for n810, I tried with setToolTip but it's of no use on the device | 16:13 |
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| EgS | ranit: tooltips are working with Qt on n810... the issue is that it's hard to "hover" with the stylus over an item | 16:14 |
| Mek | how would a tooltip even work on a touhcscreen only device... | 16:14 |
| EgS | Mek: my point exactly ;) | 16:14 |
| ranit | tha's right | 16:14 |
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| ranit | may be by getting the single click event to display the tooltip and double click to exec the action | 16:17 |
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| RST38h | http://englishrussia.com/?p=2063 | 16:53 |
| RST38h | Enjoy | 16:53 |
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| atul | Hi Is ther any way to remote loging to scratchbox. | 17:09 |
| RST38h | log into your host machine then log into scratchbox | 17:10 |
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| andre___ | hmm, so if you'd want to file a bug against File Manager, would you take a look into "Applications" or into "System software" product in bugzilla? | 17:14 |
| * andre___ is undecided on reorganizing | 17:14 | |
| RST38h | Applications seems more logical | 17:14 |
| RST38h | It is an app after all.. | 17:15 |
| RST38h | But if it is the file-open dialog, it goes under a different category | 17:15 |
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| RST38h | Btw, have we got a bug about file-open dialog trying to scan all the subdirectories in the current one? Takes almost a minute on my n810 | 17:16 |
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| crashanddie | andre___, system software | 17:18 |
| andre___ | hehe, differing opinions means "if in doubt, keep it as it is"... i should finally post the "grand plan" at this weekend | 17:19 |
| ShadowJK | pvanhoof, well, preloading on a ram-limited machine seems silly in the first place | 17:22 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, depends | 17:22 |
| RST38h | Shadow: actually, preloading browserd loses about 5MB of memory | 17:22 |
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| pvanhoof | If the most used app is the browser ... then it makes a lot of sense | 17:22 |
| RST38h | Shadow: So it is not the main problem with it | 17:22 |
| RST38h | Shadow: the main problem is that, with Gecko there, chances of making it "not crash" are nil | 17:23 |
| pvanhoof | preloading doesn't make new processes (being browsers) not restart from scratch | 17:23 |
| pvanhoof | preloading just makes sure the .so files are all in ram | 17:23 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: btw, do you know how much time preloading saves with MicroB? | 17:24 |
| pvanhoof | killing the browser and restarting it will still restart all running code | 17:24 |
| RST38h | [well not preloading, but using browserd, ok] | 17:24 |
| pvanhoof | no | 17:24 |
| ShadowJK | microb starts pretty quickly as is | 17:24 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: between 2 and 3 seconds :) | 17:24 |
| pvanhoof | browserd, yea: just gtk_widget_show () instead of fork() execv() | 17:24 |
| RST38h | pvanhoof: our friend timeless did not believe at first but then grudgingly accepted this | 17:24 |
| ShadowJK | I mean, most of the time if I have the browser running, and have done something else in the meanwhile like xchat and watching a movie or similar, then switching back to the browser can take longer than it took to load it in the first place :/ | 17:25 |
| pvanhoof | looks like the running browser got its cache swapped out | 17:25 |
| pvanhoof | Have you enabled a swap file? | 17:25 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 17:25 |
| pvanhoof | Disable it | 17:26 |
| ShadowJK | What, and have random programs die all the time? :-( | 17:26 |
| pvanhoof | Well, if your running browser swaps away a bunch of memory to a extremely slow flash device .. | 17:26 |
| pvanhoof | And you make the kernel swap it back in | 17:26 |
| pvanhoof | then yea, that'll take some time | 17:26 |
| pvanhoof | But without swap, there wont be swapping-out :) | 17:26 |
| pvanhoof | Just more memory usage | 17:27 |
| ShadowJK | I don't know what's worse, painfully slow swap-in or programs getting killed by the random() algorithm :D | 17:27 |
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| pvanhoof | It's a choice :) | 17:27 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Official response: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3705#c5 | 17:27 |
| ShadowJK | The first swap-out is pretty fast and unnoticeable, sequential writes that stream quickly to flash | 17:27 |
| EgS | speaking of slow: is the internal memory card slower then sdhc cards? | 17:27 |
| RST38h | yes, somewhat | 17:28 |
| ShadowJK | but then paging in from swap again in random order, and paging out some of those pages again in random order, is a real killer for flash | 17:28 |
| ShadowJK | I'm sure there are both faster and slower sdhc cards :) | 17:28 |
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| EgS | I see | 17:28 |
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| crashanddie | good god, is this my lucky (or unlucky) day? | 17:29 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, it's a mobile device, with extremely slow storage compared to what people usually use for swap | 17:29 |
| crashanddie | I've had 6 different calls from agencies, only today, when I haven't had a word in about 2 weeks | 17:29 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, so if you enable a swap file, it doesn't surprise me that it doesn't work as expected | 17:29 |
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| ShadowJK | but atleast you /can/ enable swap | 17:30 |
| RST38h | crash: Agencies do not count | 17:30 |
| ShadowJK | Which is a big plus | 17:30 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, I guess for the amount of tasks and memory that you want, you better buy a newer device :) | 17:30 |
| RST38h | crash: Any prospective employers though? | 17:30 |
| pvanhoof | With more ram | 17:30 |
| ShadowJK | I really hate browsing/chatting/etc on my Nokia E70, when it runs out of ram it just picks one of the open programs and kills it :) | 17:30 |
| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, yes you /can/ enable it, but the device is not designed for it :) | 17:30 |
| crashanddie | RST38h, well, I discount people who just call to tell me they're "looking to find me job", only people who send actual job descriptions and everything | 17:30 |
| pvanhoof | Which means that switching processes can mean swapping in and out | 17:31 |
| ShadowJK | What other devices are there that fit in pocket and runs a non-bastard os :-( | 17:31 |
| ShadowJK | and have lots of ram | 17:31 |
| pvanhoof | The next version of the device? | 17:31 |
| ShadowJK | ah | 17:31 |
| crashanddie | ShadowJK, yeah, I doubt it picks one, I just think the malloc fails and the program gets killed for that, so whichever app tries to access more RAM first get pwned | 17:31 |
| pvanhoof | I have not yet received mine :) | 17:31 |
| ShadowJK | The default in Linux isn't malloc failing... | 17:32 |
| pvanhoof | so I don't know, and if I would know, I would have to kill you after telling you etc etc etc | 17:32 |
| pvanhoof | I think a linux kernel can overcommit memory usage | 17:32 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 17:32 |
| pvanhoof | That's why you want a OOM killer | 17:32 |
| RST38h | crash: Ah | 17:33 |
| ShadowJK | Otherwise it'd never allocate much memory to apps, unless you had lots of swap as backup | 17:33 |
| pvanhoof | nods | 17:33 |
| pvanhoof | it's also a copy on write allocator afaik | 17:33 |
| RST38h | crash: I would discount all the agents though - not useful at all | 17:33 |
| pvanhoof | so if you do malloc(10milj) it wont really allocate it | 17:33 |
| pvanhoof | but if you start writing it, it will | 17:33 |
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| pvanhoof | ShadowJK, thing is, no matter what decision you make .. you are going to have people who disagree :) | 17:35 |
| ShadowJK | :) | 17:35 |
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| johnx | hmm, next device will have more memory? I'll bet against it. :) | 17:44 |
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| X-Fade | johnx: Just add 4GB RAM and be done with it ;) | 17:46 |
| jott | 128mb is enough for anyone! | 17:46 |
| * jott wishes for more ram too :/ | 17:47 | |
| woglinde | hi jott | 17:47 |
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| jott | hey | 17:47 |
| johnx | just looking through packaging info for the OMAP3 makes me think that 128MB of RAM / 256MB of flash will be very likely | 17:47 |
| johnx | I'm fine with 128MB though | 17:47 |
| johnx | 256MB would be nice of course... | 17:47 |
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| jott | 128mb is very low when you want to use a browser with multiple tabs and multitask... | 17:48 |
| X-Fade | And a filesystem that supports XIP would be nice too :) | 17:48 |
| woglinde | *g* | 17:48 |
| jott | it's fine for text-tools :) | 17:48 |
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| GeneralAntilles | johnx, that's mostly because Micron/Samsung don't _have_ a PoP with 256/256 or 256/512 | 17:50 |
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| GeneralAntilles | But we're talking about 8 months from now. | 17:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | So they likely will by then. | 17:51 |
| jott | let's hope so.. | 17:52 |
| jott | (and that it will be used) | 17:52 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, I think Nokia is less likely to be on the bleeding edge like Pandora devs. | 17:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | I know the Beagle guys are looking at shipping a 256MB RAM-only PoP. | 17:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, Pandora devs are stuck with 128/256 too. ;) | 17:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Once it's available, I don't see any reason why they wouldn't use it. | 17:52 |
| johnx | Time will tell I guess, but Nokia usually gives their hardware a chance to be field tested, so they won't be doing things last minute is what I mean | 17:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, 8 months is a long time. | 17:53 |
| jott | GeneralAntilles: because it depends when the deadline for such design decisions are.. | 17:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | If Micron/Samsung ship a new PoP by November. | 17:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | :shrugs: | 17:53 |
| johnx | ^ what he said | 17:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's not out of the realm of possibilities. | 17:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Who knows, they could be planning on having the PoP ready by the time it goes to press already. ;) | 17:54 |
| jott | yeah. well still for now it's only a wish :) | 17:54 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, your optimism is impressive :) | 17:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | and Nokia really likes proving me wrong, it seems. :( | 17:54 |
| jott | hah | 17:54 |
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| jott | just wish the contrary :) | 17:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | 64MB RAM? | 17:55 |
| johnx | man I sure hope they don't add more memory | 17:55 |
| RST38h | Yea, General, you are being too optimistic =) | 17:55 |
| johnx | swapping is aaaawesome | 17:55 |
| X-Fade | lol | 17:55 |
| RST38h | Betting on shit happening is always safer =) | 17:55 |
| jott | you can only be satisfied in the end :) | 17:55 |
| jott | or just say "i knew it" :) | 17:56 |
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| RST38h | *or* you can say "it came out so well!" | 17:56 |
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| johnx_ | grrr...desktop is crashing | 18:07 |
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| woglinde | hm the 5 seconds linux system bootup think rockz | 18:08 |
| woglinde | but we have to wait for .28 kernel for integrate some stuff | 18:09 |
| johnx_ | kinda neat.i prefer suspend to RAM though | 18:09 |
| johnx_ | it would be nice right now though | 18:11 |
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| * GeneralAntilles should get back to harassing Apple about their UA stupidity with MobileMe. | 18:16 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | Angry email sent. | 18:26 |
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| * johnx_ stabs his desktop | 18:32 | |
| woglinde | to the death? | 18:32 |
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| johnx_ | nah. just til it works | 18:33 |
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| johnx_ | thinking heat related | 18:40 |
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| malikul | hey guys I need your help. I have a python script which is being launched by init.d. Its goal is to open an osso_xterm program. When I run the script it opens a new osso_xterm window but no program. my command is as follows osso_xterm program program_args | 18:43 |
| malikul | it is identical to what I have set in a working menu button. the script is run as user...any ideas? I am also using sudo to launch the program after osso_xterm | 18:44 |
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| AStorm | hmm | 18:55 |
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| AStorm | does anyone here know of a good *working* rss reader? | 18:56 |
| AStorm | default one fails miserably with some feeds (says they have a parse error) | 18:56 |
| XTL | ahs, ass | 18:56 |
| AStorm | hm? | 18:56 |
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| AStorm | with a desktop applet of course :) | 18:57 |
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| AStorm | funny part is that browser displays the feed correctly | 18:57 |
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| johnx | heh...gpu temp is 94c at idle. little high? | 18:58 |
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| XTL | Close to boiling H2O coolant :) | 19:00 |
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| AStorm | malikul: init.d is ran before Xomap is started | 19:00 |
| AStorm | johnx: what kind of CPU? | 19:00 |
| penguinba | hello world! | 19:01 |
| AStorm | if it's core 2 duo, then 100°C is max... | 19:01 |
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| AStorm | malikul: maybe... maybe if you add it to runlevel 5 | 19:01 |
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| AStorm | that could work (Xomap should have been already started by then) | 19:01 |
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| johnx | its a gpu. geforce 6600 | 19:01 |
| AStorm | assuming DISPLAY variable is set | 19:01 |
| AStorm | johnx: well, sounds very hot | 19:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, air conditioning. | 19:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | That, or clean out the dust. :P | 19:02 |
| AStorm | air conditioning won't help if it's internal temp ;> | 19:02 |
| AStorm | actually, it will, but not enough | 19:02 |
| AStorm | these should go to 110 °C max | 19:02 |
| AStorm | afaicr | 19:02 |
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| johnx | yeah. it dies hard when x starts | 19:04 |
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| johnx | wonder whats up with it | 19:04 |
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| andre___ | "sapwood theme engine" - is that still available or is it dead? you guys are a bit longer in this maemo business than i am | 19:09 |
| malikul | AStorm: Thanks I have a delay of about 2 min though. It starts to load after the device is fully booted...and then some | 19:10 |
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| jott | andre___: it's still being used, at least in diablo. | 19:10 |
| Khertan_n810 | Hello again | 19:10 |
| andre___ | jott, oh, okay. but isn't that just another theme?! | 19:10 |
| * andre___ is confused that we have three components for theme issues it seems, sigh | 19:11 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Which 3? | 19:11 |
| AStorm | malikul: does the xterm start? | 19:11 |
| jott | andre___: it's a pixmap based theme engine. | 19:11 |
| AStorm | btw, is 4.1 with latest update now 4.1.1? (for bug reporting) | 19:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | 4.1.1 | 19:11 |
| jott | (all maemo themes use it) | 19:11 |
| AStorm | ok | 19:11 |
| andre___ | GeneralAntilles: desktop/themes, system sw/hildon-theme, system sw/sapwood | 19:11 |
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| jott | andre___: well the themes are defined in a separate gtkrc, but all use sapwood to render. | 19:12 |
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| jott | so you can have a bug in sapwood and one in the gtkrc (the actual "theme") | 19:12 |
| johnx | and sapwood is weird enough to deserve separation | 19:13 |
| jott | and another one in the matchbox theme... | 19:13 |
| andre___ | gosh. and now expect a reporter (or me as a non-coder) to understand that ;-) | 19:13 |
| AStorm | hehehe | 19:13 |
| jott | (for window borders etc) | 19:13 |
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| AStorm | andre___: well, the bug will be properly reassigned if you miss that :> | 19:13 |
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| andre___ | AStorm, heh... *if* there is something with that knowledge reassigning it: yes ;-) | 19:14 |
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| AStorm | johnx: RSS reader, eat bug #3740 | 19:14 |
| AStorm | ;) | 19:14 |
| AStorm | someone messed up the parser I guess | 19:14 |
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| AStorm | either css stylesheet info is messing it up | 19:15 |
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| AStorm | or the xml info | 19:15 |
| AStorm | both of which are standard compliant | 19:15 |
| jott | andre___: so i guess the 3 products/components make all sense :) | 19:16 |
| malikul123 | AStorm: xterm starts up but displays nothing. and the terminal cannot be used...even why you open a new tab...it is just blank | 19:16 |
| AStorm | malikul123: then it's a bug | 19:16 |
| AStorm | I'd say report it, try reproducing w/o init script | 19:16 |
| AStorm | e.g. by running a shell script later | 19:16 |
| AStorm | (with a launcher) | 19:17 |
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| AStorm | ok, so does anyone have a better RSS reader? | 19:17 |
| AStorm | (desktop plugin wanted) | 19:17 |
| malikul123 | AStorm: alright let me see what I can do with a forced script loading it without python. | 19:17 |
| andre___ | jott, not the system-sw/hildon-theme one to me. i'd prefer to merge that into desktop/themes. anyway, just setting up drafts currently and waiting for feedback once i've posted them :) | 19:18 |
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| jott | andre___: yeah well, as i said, desktop is actually matchbox and "hildon" is the gtk styling. but i guess for an end-user it's easier to have just one section. i just wonder how it would be handled internally (thinking of using bugzilla for nokia tasks). | 19:22 |
| crashanddie | http://k.jouluserver.com/u/tn_092508-4591-fail-owned-wordsearch-fail.jpg | 19:22 |
| andre___ | yeah... a trade-off. | 19:22 |
| lakin | Hi all, I was trying to install Fennec on my n810, w/ chinook, via the instructions at: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Mobile/Fennec/Releases I can add the repository just fine and fennec shows up as installable, but when I install it, instead of "fennec succesfully installed" I get an "Unable to install fennec" [Close] ... no reason why | 19:23 |
| lakin | any ideas on how to try out fennec, or is it just a matter of waiting for the mozilla guys to fix their repo? | 19:23 |
| GAN800 | Don't bother | 19:24 |
| * Khertan_n810 doesn t understand why he can t have a transparent Treplet | 19:24 | |
| GAN800 | It's stil way slow and crashy | 19:24 |
| * Khertan_n810 doesn t understand why he can t have a transparent TreeView Applet | 19:24 | |
| lakin | GAN800: aaah, ok. | 19:24 |
| AStorm | jott: solution is simple | 19:25 |
| jott | AStorm: let bugmasters reassign? :) | 19:25 |
| AStorm | create a mailing list, to which two other mailing lists are subscribed :) | 19:25 |
| AStorm | like a metaassignment | 19:25 |
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| AStorm | then, people can reassign | 19:25 |
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| jott | i guess it boils down to whether the same guys within nokia (or some subcontractors) do desktop and hildon theming :) | 19:27 |
| GAN800 | What it really boils down to is that they're not gonna be looked at anyway, so it really doesn't matter. | 19:28 |
| GAN800 | ^ pessimistic enough for yah? ;) | 19:28 |
| AStorm | indeed, Nokia doesn't seem to be fixing much | 19:28 |
| AStorm | at least, that's how Diablo looks | 19:29 |
| johnx | GAN800, much better :D | 19:29 |
| AStorm | probably, they have their hands full of Fremantle | 19:29 |
| AStorm | (or what it's called) | 19:29 |
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| andre___ | yesh, three cheers for pessimism! :-P | 19:30 |
| johnx | card at 98c. time for new fans...tomorrow. night all | 19:30 |
| GAN800 | I wish I had remembered to had out the taser implants for the Summit. | 19:31 |
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| jott | GAN800: so we just need one section for everything now called "deprecated stuff" that automatically sets everything to "WONTFIX"? :) | 19:36 |
| GAN800 | Nokia/doesn't care | 19:36 |
| GAN800 | instead of confirming with 3 votes, it's WONTFIXed. | 19:37 |
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| jott | this bug has been marked WONTFIX due to popular vote? :) | 19:37 |
| GAN800 | Yessir | 19:38 |
| thux | Stskeeps: is there a way to install your deblet version from tar.bz2 package without using installer? | 19:38 |
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| GAN800 | If it doesn't have the votes, it's obviously not worth WONTFIXing | 19:38 |
| GAN800 | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=227358 | 19:39 |
| GAN800 | Haaa | 19:39 |
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| GAN800 | exactly the opposite of that bug. | 19:40 |
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| jott | "my battery sometimes lives 6 days and sometimes only 4 hours, is this normal?" :P | 19:41 |
| GAN800 | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3735 | 19:41 |
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| AStorm | ok, so where do I get canola for Diablo... or is there none yet? | 19:44 |
| GAN800 | From Extras? | 19:45 |
| jott | it's in extras "non-free" for now. | 19:45 |
| AStorm | indeed | 19:46 |
| GAN800 | Apparently the beta10 release was a false alarm. ;) | 19:46 |
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| AStorm | yes | 19:47 |
| AStorm | some python2.5-terra is missing | 19:48 |
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| AStorm | how can I install that then? :P | 19:48 |
| GAN800 | You're not installing beta 10, right? | 19:48 |
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| AStorm | GAN800: I was trying to ;P | 19:48 |
| AStorm | (had extras-devel enabled) | 19:49 |
| GAN800 | Yeah | 19:49 |
| GAN800 | X-Fade, what's the status of package deletion these days. | 19:49 |
| AStorm | so, someone screwed up there again :> | 19:49 |
| GAN800 | He's already been whipped. | 19:50 |
| AStorm | pity there's nothing in application manager to pick a repo from which to install | 19:50 |
| AStorm | (or in apt) | 19:50 |
| jott | AStorm: with apt you can at least provide a =version .. | 19:51 |
| AStorm | hmm, but how can I find out about other versions? :P | 19:51 |
| AStorm | that needs a complete correct version string | 19:52 |
| jott | apt-cache policy pkgname | 19:53 |
| riot | erm... i have some weird problems with my n810.. | 19:54 |
| riot | some strange things are happening, among them the following: i was just ssh'ed in and was executing "ls" then it bombs me out with a glibc-error like this one: | 19:55 |
| riot | *** glibc detected *** -sh: corrupted double-linked list: 0x0004b180 *** | 19:55 |
| AStorm | jott: and that will show all versions? | 19:55 |
| jott | AStorm: should do. | 19:55 |
| riot | is this a hardware-problem? | 19:56 |
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| AStorm | riot: that or miscompilation | 19:58 |
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| riot | AStorm: its an almost new device with Chinook, i didn't touch anything. It worked wonderfully until yesterday. | 20:03 |
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| AStorm | is that reproducible? | 20:12 |
| AStorm | wrrr... ogg-support doesn't work still | 20:12 |
| riot | hmm. yes it is | 20:12 |
| AStorm | no lightmediascanner0-ogg >=0.1.9 | 20:12 |
| riot | and i get a short-read when trying to backup the system using dd or tar | 20:12 |
| AStorm | riot: is that Chinook 2007.51? | 20:12 |
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| riot | uh, possibly, i'll have a look | 20:12 |
| AStorm | that tar bug is known busybox issue :) | 20:12 |
| AStorm | (that old version of course) | 20:13 |
| riot | aah, the hostname is Nokia-N810-51-3, so i suppose, the 51 is the version? | 20:13 |
| jott | riot: on the internal 2gb card? | 20:13 |
| riot | jott: no, or, possibly, i tried to backup / | 20:14 |
| AStorm | jott: the default is 512 flash chip | 20:14 |
| riot | except proc, sys, etc | 20:14 |
| riot | hmmm. so, i'm gonna upgrade to diablo now, in hope that the problems will vanish. | 20:14 |
| jott | AStorm: huh? | 20:14 |
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| AStorm | jott: I mean, the system is there | 20:15 |
| AStorm | the tar short-read happens with some old busybox versions | 20:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | 256 | 20:15 |
| AStorm | like the one chinook uses | 20:15 |
| AStorm | ah, yes, sorry ;P | 20:15 |
| AStorm | obviously 256 MB | 20:15 |
| jott | ah ok. | 20:15 |
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| riot | AStorm: still it makes me suspicious along with the glibc-errors i have | 20:15 |
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| riot | this alltogether looks a little bit like a faulty flash | 20:16 |
| jott | well noting because the n810 internal 2gb has a broken partition table.. | 20:16 |
| riot | which would be.. hmm bad! | 20:16 |
| AStorm | yes, fix that table | 20:16 |
| jott | which may causes some weirdness.. | 20:16 |
| AStorm | not pointer corruption though | 20:16 |
| riot | jott: but the internal 2 GB are unrelated to the 256 MB flash, are they? | 20:16 |
| jott | riot: yes. | 20:16 |
| AStorm | they are | 20:16 |
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| lcuk | evil dentists! | 20:18 |
| lcuk | ~lart dentists | 20:18 |
| * infobot squishes dentists like a bug | 20:18 | |
| lcuk | :D | 20:18 |
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| AStorm | damnit | 20:19 |
| jott | yeah it needs an particular mind-set if you want to become a dentist :) | 20:19 |
| AStorm | still no working lightmediascanner-ogg ... | 20:19 |
| jott | hi lcuk btw :) | 20:19 |
| lcuk | hiya jott | 20:20 |
| lcuk | they have finally done some much needed work on me | 20:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, go talk to k-s. | 20:20 |
| lcuk | k-s? | 20:20 |
| k-s | lcuk: ops! | 20:20 |
| k-s | :-) | 20:20 |
| jott | is k-s a dentist or just another victim? :) | 20:20 |
| k-s | lcuk: I talked to GeneralAntilles at #canola about libqbase | 20:21 |
| k-s | lcuk: i had some questions | 20:21 |
| lcuk | drop the b and i'll know what you are talking about ;) | 20:21 |
| k-s | being lazy and willing to use libqbase as evas engine :-) | 20:21 |
| k-s | ouch | 20:21 |
| k-s | ehehe | 20:22 |
| k-s | sorry | 20:22 |
| lcuk | its ok, just looks wrong | 20:22 |
| k-s | liQbase | 20:22 |
| lcuk | :D excellent | 20:22 |
| k-s | what's wrong? | 20:22 |
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| Italodance | ummm guys what's the ip of n800 modem? | 20:22 |
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| k-s | well... my first question is: is it immediate mode rendering? | 20:22 |
| k-s | (this is mostly all I need to know to check if using it for evas is possible or not) | 20:23 |
| lcuk | ok k-s im just about to enter a beta testing phase - im gonna put a halt on dev for the short term to clean it up and get it working as a nice end user app | 20:23 |
| riot | duh.. i misplaced my diablo-upgrade... what are the upgrade-files called like, so i can look for them? | 20:23 |
| lcuk | immediate mode.. hmmm i would say yes, i render directly onto a canvas then update it | 20:23 |
| malikul123 | ok update on the osso_xterm and loading a program directly from a script. I am not getting an error about a few min of a blank screen "Internal error. Appication 'S Terminal closed." | 20:23 |
| AStorm | gronmayer says there's 0.1.10 in the repos... then why does ogg-support-lightmediascanner fail.... | 20:24 |
| AStorm | kulve: any hint? | 20:24 |
| malikul123 | anyone know what that error typically points too? | 20:24 |
| k-s | lcuk: but do you keep objects around? | 20:24 |
| lcuk | but it is rendered in YUV mode and not the more normal rgb | 20:24 |
| k-s | lcuk: or it's draw-and-forget? | 20:24 |
| lcuk | the only objects are what I have created as UI elements ontop | 20:24 |
| lcuk | its draw and forget in the core | 20:24 |
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| lardman | evening | 20:24 |
| lcuk | hi lardman :) | 20:25 |
| lardman | hey lcuk | 20:25 |
| AStorm | kulve: ah, it's in chinook, but not diablo | 20:25 |
| k-s | I'm asking that because evas already keeps the ui objects | 20:25 |
| k-s | ok, so perfect, it is possible to have liqbase backend for evas | 20:25 |
| k-s | now to some doubts I have | 20:25 |
| k-s | probably I could read the code and figyre out myself | 20:25 |
| lcuk | heh, theres always doibts | 20:25 |
| k-s | but ur here and I lack time these days | 20:25 |
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| lcuk | doubts even | 20:25 |
| lcuk | iwhich license is evas under? | 20:26 |
| k-s | BSD :-D | 20:26 |
| kulve | AStorm: canola guys should add that library to diablo. But they don't like the fact that ogg-support isn't build with the builder | 20:26 |
| AStorm | ~builder | 20:27 |
| k-s | 1 - do you handle transparency? how (extra plane, 1 alpha for 1 luminance value?) | 20:27 |
| lcuk | thats very nice, but you would have dual licensing issues: liqbase is gpl | 20:27 |
| AStorm | hmm, bot doesn't listen to me? ok, what is that new builder thing? | 20:27 |
| qwerty12 | ~upload-extras | 20:27 |
| infobot | upload-extras is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras | 20:27 |
| jott | lcuk: in fact it would just become gpl as you can "upgrade" bsd to gpl ;) | 20:27 |
| k-s | lcuk: I don't mind, we already have qtopia backend (it's outdated) | 20:27 |
| lcuk | i can load a png image with alpha channel, then during the blit I can blend | 20:27 |
| k-s | jott is right | 20:27 |
| jott | (at least the particular rendering backend and all derived stuff from it) | 20:27 |
| k-s | lcuk: but is the image kept as argb? | 20:28 |
| lcuk | yes, its the derived stuff which would complicate matters | 20:28 |
| k-s | or converted to yuv? | 20:28 |
| AStorm | ah this one | 20:28 |
| lcuk | technically its YUVA | 20:28 |
| AStorm | :) | 20:28 |
| k-s | lcuk: ok, so A is another plane? same size as Y? | 20:28 |
| * lcuk made up a definition for alpha channeled YUV images since none seemed to exist | 20:28 | |
| lcuk | umm i cant remember which way round i did it | 20:29 |
| lcuk | gimme a mo | 20:29 |
| lcuk | i tried both methods - with Alpha bein full res, then alpha bein half res | 20:29 |
| jott | lcuk: no nothing complicated about it. if liqbase code is used, everything that derives from it gets gpl. the bsd code will just adapt in that case. | 20:29 |
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| AStorm | kulve: so, I'll just cheat for now | 20:32 |
| AStorm | install the chinook deb directly - will it work? | 20:32 |
| kulve | I haven't tried.. | 20:33 |
| lcuk | full res alpha channel :) | 20:33 |
| k-s | lcuk: 2 - how to you handle cases where there is a hard border at some odd-position pixel | 20:34 |
| k-s | ie: red and green rectangles have a border at x % 2 == 1 | 20:34 |
| k-s | do you make it green, red, brown? | 20:34 |
| lcuk | you mena after a scaleblit | 20:34 |
| lcuk | mean | 20:34 |
| k-s | yeah, you don't have full resolution for colors, just Y | 20:34 |
| k-s | in this case would you have Cb = 0, 255 or 128? | 20:35 |
| riot | woo, successfully flashed to diablo :D | 20:35 |
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| lcuk | i believe i blit on the even quadrant only, i dont try to do anything for the final odd pixel (each plane is blitted independently) | 20:37 |
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| lbt | who was whittering about sound and sound APIs yesterday? This :: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/guide-to-sound-apis.html may be interesting 8) | 20:37 |
| AStorm | except.... there's no real way to get gapless playback with gstreamer | 20:39 |
| AStorm | and it's been that way since forever | 20:39 |
| * lcuk nurses his poorly mouth | 20:40 | |
| lbt | is that the proprietary one? | 20:40 |
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| churl | hello | 20:41 |
| riot | hm. Now i'm disappointed. The Pinentry still sucks in diablo | 20:41 |
| AStorm | the pointless people at GStreamer still haven't added that very needed feature | 20:42 |
| AStorm | which *should* be simple to add unless the framework is totally broken by design | 20:42 |
| lbt | did they reject your patch? | 20:42 |
| riot | though i'm very surprised about the backup-system.. nice job, there.. | 20:42 |
| churl | ive got a problem, application manager is not finding any installed apps | 20:43 |
| AStorm | lbt: no, it's actually said to be done in the app | 20:43 |
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| AStorm | so, by splitting a pipeline in two | 20:43 |
| AStorm | one part for decoding, another playback | 20:43 |
| AStorm | pity gstreamer has no real queue support, or stream chaining | 20:44 |
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| AStorm | anyway, that is easy enough to fix by splitting pipeline in two and passing buffers around by hand... or someone writing a simple "chaining" part of the stream | 20:45 |
| lcuk | k-s, was that all you needed to bug me about | 20:46 |
| lbt | AStorm: not used it myself - and, TBH, it was more an FYI that may be useful for people looking at the various sound subsystems out there (just 'cos I caught snippets last night) | 20:47 |
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| AStorm | lbt: the patch would be an API change | 20:47 |
| AStorm | GStreamer people know that doing gapless playback in it is hard | 20:47 |
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| benno2 | hi, I am running diablo on the n800 and sometimes the wlan connection drops. when I step out of the coverage area.at this point I have to click on the wlan icon again and reactivate it. could I do it using a script ? is there a way to force to fire up the wlan. like ifup wlan0 or something ? | 20:50 |
| k-s | lcuk: sorry, I was doing some stuff here. | 20:50 |
| AStorm | about the only GStreamer player that does gapless is... Songbird | 20:51 |
| AStorm | and that's ultra-heavy | 20:51 |
| sneakret | benno2: That's odd. Mine auto-connects to known access points when they're in range. | 20:51 |
| AStorm | benno2: check autosearch interval | 20:51 |
| lcuk | thats ok, ks its a very basic library built more for speed than quality, but obviously it kicks ass :) | 20:51 |
| k-s | lcuk: how you blit to the even only? | 20:51 |
| AStorm | it's in control panel, default is 10 minutes | 20:51 |
| lbt | benno2: so does mine :) | 20:52 |
| malikul123 | AStorm: thanks for your advice bro. I broke it down and it ended up being just very sensative | 20:52 |
| k-s | lcuk: rectangles: red=(0, 0, 3, 1), green=(3, 0, 3, 1) should share the same color (Cr) pixel | 20:52 |
| malikul123 | AStorm: works now. Thank you | 20:52 |
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| lcuk | k-s the blitter i have prefers to blit 32bit values, so for an 800 pixel wide blit it copies 200 longs. then the color planes - theres 400 pixels of data, it does 100longs | 20:52 |
| k-s | you'd have 3 color values there: red (cr=255), unknown and green (cr=0) | 20:53 |
| lcuk | it will simply overwrite the color pixel | 20:53 |
| lcuk | with the latest blit value - unless of course its doing the alpha blitting | 20:53 |
| benno2 | sneakret: sneakret, lbt: I have an app open which constantly transmits data and when out of the coverage range it hangs (this is normal), when i reenter the coverage area (after 10-20secs) sometimes it reconnect, sometimes not. you have to use the icon to activate wlan again. | 20:53 |
| jott | lcuk goes for speed not quality :P | 20:53 |
| benno2 | AStorm: 10minutes or 5minutes it too long, I need something like 10-20secs. any idea how to force it ? | 20:54 |
| lcuk | indeed - but speed was of vital importance to the feel of the app | 20:54 |
| lbt | I took my tablet out today and it's still in my coat pocket. I can ssh to it just fine. | 20:54 |
| jott | yer, nothing wrong about it. just a matter of priorities ... | 20:54 |
| AStorm | benno2: autoreconnect is an option of the connection itself | 20:54 |
| k-s | lcuk: I see, and I have no good solution for that | 20:54 |
| AStorm | but it will try only a few times :) | 20:54 |
| lcuk | i dont need a solution :) | 20:54 |
| k-s | lcuk: so I was checking and willing to get a "GREAT" idea | 20:54 |
| k-s | lcuk: ehehehe | 20:54 |
| lbt | AStorm: you mean the AP config? | 20:54 |
| AStorm | lbt: yup | 20:54 |
| benno2 | AStorm: yes, but do you happen to know if I can force the interval to be lower (10-20secs) by modifying some config file instead of using the gui ? | 20:55 |
| k-s | lcuk: I had lots of similar issues with software-16 for evas, had to simplify stuff in order to get performance correct... for instance: it is impossible to blend white over white and get white! :-D | 20:55 |
| lcuk | when i reduce the blit down to byte optimized only (as the scaleblit is) i lose a large percentage of speed | 20:55 |
| lcuk | heh | 20:55 |
| lbt | I didn't realise - I'm using openWRT or something (dunno - it just works and it's OSS) | 20:55 |
| lcuk | we will have to talk more when my mouth isnt so sore | 20:55 |
| lcuk | sounds like we have both had a similar marathon :) | 20:56 |
| k-s | lcuk: ok, seems good | 20:56 |
| * lbt wonder's if lcuk is tongue-typing... | 20:56 | |
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| k-s | lcuk: until I invest some more time investigating | 20:56 |
| lbt | kinda like touch typing but wetter | 20:56 |
| AStorm | lbt: uhm... AP config in n810 of course :> == connection config | 20:56 |
| * jott inflicts pain on lbt and sees how he types then :D | 20:56 | |
| lcuk | im not a pierson's puppeteer | 20:56 |
| k-s | now back to work | 20:57 |
| k-s | lcuk: thanks for your time | 20:57 |
| lbt | AStorm: OK - thanks, wasn't sure | 20:57 |
| lcuk | no prob :) | 20:57 |
| k-s | the funny thing is that I had this idea, for another reason, for evas | 20:57 |
| lbt | jott: he's only sad 'cos bacon is hard on a sore mouth! | 20:57 |
| lcuk | :( no bacon for me | 20:57 |
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| lbt | see | 20:57 |
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| lcuk | they brought the filling stuff practically by the barrow load | 20:57 |
| k-s | it was primarily to avoid RGB->YUV conversions for Emotion (which uses xine and evas) | 20:58 |
| lcuk | rgb->yuv isnt so bad if its a one off | 20:58 |
| k-s | secondly for the blit performance | 20:58 |
| lbt | lcuk: it's all piling up though - you can have double-decker butties when it gets better :D | 20:58 |
| lcuk | :D oh yerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr | 20:58 |
| k-s | lcuk: if we do rgb->yuv we would not be able to play fullscreen video on n8x0 | 20:58 |
| k-s | not even because of conversion | 20:58 |
| k-s | but bandwidth | 20:58 |
| lcuk | but isnt most video stored natively at yuv? | 20:59 |
| lbt | <sigh> back l8r, got to do real work... | 20:59 |
| k-s | lcuk: yes, it is | 20:59 |
| k-s | lcuk: but evas engines (so far) are mostly ARGB premul | 20:59 |
| lcuk | its like JPEGs - i can access and load them faster because i dont have a YUV->RGB conversion | 20:59 |
| k-s | lcuk: so you have to convert videos to that | 20:59 |
| lcuk | so why not use a YUV layer for playing native videos in? | 21:00 |
| lcuk | ala mplayer? | 21:00 |
| k-s | lcuk: we dod that :-) | 21:00 |
| jott | because you need a yuv engine for compositing :) | 21:00 |
| k-s | lcuk: but another layer = not easy to blend | 21:00 |
| k-s | if you want to blend | 21:00 |
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| k-s | either convert to YUV or RGB | 21:01 |
| lcuk | so you can currently read->convert->blend quick enough for video files? | 21:01 |
| k-s | converting to RGB is no-go | 21:01 |
| k-s | lcuk: no, we blit to an XV window, that is on top of evas window | 21:01 |
| lcuk | good, do you blit in 32bit blocks (or more using SIMD) | 21:01 |
| lcuk | cos if you manage to get it working you will gain incredible speedups on blit :) | 21:02 |
| jott | you could just use memcpy after some alignment or use ssvbs armv6 optimized memcpy that handles alignment :) | 21:03 |
| lcuk | i tested with memcpy | 21:03 |
| lcuk | and with bytes | 21:03 |
| lcuk | and words | 21:03 |
| lcuk | and longs | 21:03 |
| lcuk | and extra asm versions (but they failed) | 21:03 |
| k-s | lcuk: we do | 21:04 |
| k-s | lcuk: we're basically bound to bus bandwidth | 21:04 |
| lcuk | memcpy gave a speed test result in my app of 3.5 32bit gave 8.0 | 21:04 |
| k-s | http://code.google.com/p/arm1136j-s/ | 21:05 |
| lcuk | because of the overheads with calling the function - rows of data are small and theres lots of them so the overhead counts | 21:05 |
| k-s | these were the tests we did | 21:05 |
| lcuk | ahhh yes ive looked | 21:05 |
| jott | ah that where yours not ssvbs. | 21:05 |
| lcuk | that was what i couldnt get to work ;) | 21:05 |
| lcuk | think its the thumb mode or something im in, but it locked no matter how i tried | 21:06 |
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| jott | ah no ssvb in headers :) | 21:06 |
| k-s | it was meant to be usable with omap1710 as well (770) | 21:06 |
| lcuk | yer, i think its just the mode i am in, but everything i tried just didnt work: i added an extra 64bit section to the blitter and attempted to move using double's | 21:07 |
| jott | lcuk: yeah depends on the width of the image of course. (nearly) fullscreen video blitting could be faster with memcpy though. | 21:07 |
| AStorm | k-s: then do ifdefs | 21:07 |
| lcuk | still 400 calls to it jott | 21:07 |
| AStorm | the new quick memcpy is much faster | 21:07 |
| AStorm | or SIMD | 21:07 |
| * lcuk drooled at SIMD but gave up trying to get it working | 21:08 | |
| jott | yeah but your relying on gcc 3.4.4 optimizations for tight loops :P | 21:08 |
| lcuk | it wasnt important at the time | 21:08 |
| lcuk | especially now since i cant use any: strechblit is byte optimized and cant use it, lines are bytes, etc etc | 21:08 |
| lcuk | straight glyph blitting works really well as does full image blitting, i dont have any issues there | 21:09 |
| lcuk | heh, jott i noticed the speed tests were coming out really badly for a while after i upgraded - i realised after that the inline that was there was no longer being honoured because the base function which calls it many times was outside the module | 21:10 |
| k-s | AStorm: we use the new glibc memcpy | 21:10 |
| * lcuk scratched his head at that one | 21:11 | |
| AStorm | which is slow still :) | 21:11 |
| k-s | AStorm: and about ifdefs, patches are welcome. I doubt it will impact much on real use cases | 21:11 |
| AStorm | well, it may improve FPS on full screen updates | 21:11 |
| jott | lcuk: still keep in mind that you are doing not much else atm. consider the load caused by video/audio decoding. so you still want to grab every extra cpu cycle you could optimize :) | 21:11 |
| lcuk | yer jott, totally understood - but from a personal perspective i had the performance i need and can create the things i wanna build | 21:12 |
| k-s | from my POV, the biggest difference here is using less data | 21:12 |
| jott | yeah. WORKSFORME bug closed :) | 21:12 |
| lcuk | if it becomes a problem ill look back on it - but i could spend forever optimizing | 21:12 |
| k-s | we're about the bus limit already | 21:13 |
| lcuk | k-s, its not THAT Much less data | 21:13 |
| k-s | it's a HUGE constraint on the visual part, but it's less data | 21:13 |
| k-s | it is | 21:13 |
| k-s | and some operations are cheaper | 21:13 |
| lcuk | you should get tearfree technically by updating 75% of the screen | 21:13 |
| k-s | many rect fill become memset() | 21:13 |
| lcuk | if it was solely the bus | 21:13 |
| k-s | lcuk: yeah, but of course you're not doing useless color fills all the time | 21:14 |
| lcuk | but a rectfill cant use generic memset unless its the whole plane | 21:14 |
| k-s | lcuk: throw in a designer and eveything becomes multi-layered semi-transparent effect bling | 21:14 |
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| k-s | lcuk: you can use rectfill for span | 21:14 |
| jott | hah nice catch-phrase k-s :) | 21:14 |
| GAN800 | lol | 21:14 |
| k-s | jott: really... try to work with marcelo (handful), it's hard to keep performance with the desired effect | 21:15 |
| lcuk | k-s - then tell the designers there are constraints on an embedded device :) | 21:15 |
| k-s | it's not bad, as the visuals are fine | 21:15 |
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| lcuk | yer it looks sweet :) | 21:15 |
| k-s | but, you have to kill yourself to figure out how to make it fast | 21:15 |
| jott | k-s: sure. not arguing .. :) | 21:15 |
| AStorm | so real :) | 21:15 |
| k-s | lcuk: are you kidding, huh? | 21:15 |
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| GAN800 | Just think, it'll all mostly be irrelevant when the next device rolls around. :P | 21:16 |
| lcuk | no im not actually, its designers that have killed the vista experience - same thing, bling overkill makes for a sluggish unrewarding experience | 21:16 |
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| k-s | 800x480x2 = 768kb per screen in 16bpp mode | 21:16 |
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| k-s | lcuk: are you working with 8 bits components? | 21:17 |
| lcuk | yes | 21:17 |
| k-s | 576k for yuv | 21:17 |
| k-s | not a huge difference, yeah | 21:18 |
| lcuk | so 800*480 + 400*240 + 400*240 = 576000 == 3/4 of your bandwidth | 21:18 |
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| lcuk | 75% | 21:18 |
| jott | plus overhead for yuv=>yuv blitting by xv :p | 21:18 |
| AStorm | don't forget to add some chaff to that number | 21:18 |
| lcuk | so - shouldnt it be possible if it was bus only to update 600*480 or something and leave some static | 21:18 |
| AStorm | so it's actually more than that | 21:18 |
| lcuk | AStorm, XV adds overlay these guys dont have | 21:19 |
| RST38h | GAN: Actually we do not know how relevant it will all be | 21:19 |
| k-s | jott: ? | 21:19 |
| lcuk | the planar YUV objects are converted to an interleaved format before sending | 21:19 |
| AStorm | ouch | 21:19 |
| RST38h | GAN: lcuk is using XV extension afaik - that one will still be available at the new device | 21:19 |
| jott | k-s: the lcd controller uses a different yuv format than xv, hence xomap converts the plane based yuv from xv to the tight format the lcd controller uses. | 21:19 |
| GAN800 | The bus issues are all gone, though. | 21:19 |
| lcuk | and it will be faster than anything else still :) | 21:20 |
| k-s | jott: no way to bypass that? | 21:20 |
| lcuk | GAN800, faster and faster :) | 21:20 |
| jott | k-s: no, only by using framebuffer. | 21:20 |
| jott | (afaik) | 21:20 |
| RST38h | GAN: hipefully =) | 21:20 |
| k-s | jott: /dev/fb0? | 21:20 |
| jott | k-s: yer, with omapfb extensions for updating etc. | 21:20 |
| k-s | jott: ok, doable | 21:20 |
| GAN800 | RST38h, you can play with the bus-issue-free hardware right now. :) | 21:21 |
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| lcuk | k-s - its technically possible to write directly in the interleaved format and write directly, its a last ditch attempt which would gain even more speed theoretically, but the added complexity of the blitting routines would mean its not even considered for now | 21:21 |
| k-s | mplayer does that already | 21:21 |
| jott | k-s: yes. | 21:21 |
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| * lcuk wrote notes on how to impliment the algo a while ago | 21:21 | |
| lcuk | e | 21:21 |
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| k-s | ok, i need to digest most of that, think and who knows some day, try it out | 21:21 |
| k-s | eheheh | 21:21 |
| jott | lcuk: depends on the data structures. it's definitely not as straight forward :) | 21:22 |
| k-s | no time for that now :-) | 21:22 |
| AStorm | lcuk: so, what is holding up the true 30 FPS? :) | 21:22 |
| lcuk | yer k-s, its a tough problem - you would gain in some respects but almost certainly lose in others | 21:22 |
| lcuk | bandwidth | 21:22 |
| lcuk | without doing ANYTHING major (just updating a single tiny corner) the refresh is no faster | 21:23 |
| pusling | hi peoples. my n810 seems to have "lost" usb connection. Nothing gets registered on the pc when I plug in the usb cable in the device. what to look for ? | 21:23 |
| lcuk | however at lower resolutions the refresh rate goes way up | 21:23 |
| lcuk | ie, i get 25fps if i do a full screen blit, i stil lget 25fps if i do nothing | 21:23 |
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| lcuk | but at 640*480 i get 33fps | 21:24 |
| AStorm | ah, so vsync is? | 21:24 |
| jott | but if done right you will be *always* faster using the native format and the framebuffer instead of xv. | 21:24 |
| RST38h | GAN: Do not make me buy *another* dev board. I have got a box full of them at the balcony | 21:24 |
| RST38h | No longer fun, unless somebody is paying for developing on it... | 21:25 |
| jott | otoh xv eases X11 integration :) | 21:25 |
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| lcuk | probably astorm, but i never used to wait for that when i was doing and it doesnt skyrocket when doing nothing | 21:25 |
| GAN800 | RST38h, then don't. My point was, is that there's really no 'hopefully' about it. | 21:25 |
| lcuk | the anaesthetic is wearing off, this is becoming unbearable, bbl | 21:26 |
| jott | (and xv ensures compatibility with other devices) | 21:26 |
| AStorm | lcuk: well, 800*480*16*30 is 175 Mb | 21:26 |
| AStorm | this might be a bit too much ;P | 21:26 |
| lcuk | k-s nice talkin with you (and you as well jott and others) | 21:26 |
| lcuk | cyas in a bit | 21:26 |
| AStorm | 25 FPS is 150 Mb | 21:26 |
| RST38h | GAN: You mean, omap3 is known to support 800x480 glue-free? | 21:27 |
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| jott | RST38h: given they don't use some broken lcd controller again :) | 21:28 |
| jott | but yeah omap3 can handle it fine. | 21:28 |
| RST38h | jott: well they had to use it because omap2 couldn't do 800x480 | 21:29 |
| jott | yer. | 21:29 |
| GAN800 | OMAP3430 can handle up to 1024x768 without issue | 21:29 |
| jott | still nokias engineers are known to make some strange decisions from time to time :) | 21:29 |
| GAN800 | Which, again, was my point. :) | 21:29 |
| RST38h | jott: look at the bright side: they do it less often than nintendo! | 21:30 |
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| AStorm | is that because they release less devices? ;P | 21:34 |
| RST38h | "More and more, people here look back to the era of harsh Taliban rule from 1996 to 2001, describing it as a time of security and peace." | 21:35 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Depends on whether you count in end products or in components =) | 21:35 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Nokia definitely releases moredifferent end products (handsets) but Nintendo often releases a new cartridge type that has weird hardware customers have no idea about | 21:36 |
| AStorm | definitely :) | 21:38 |
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| malikul123 | hey everyone thanks for your help | 22:13 |
| malikul123 | I have fixed my bugs in the program | 22:13 |
| malikul123 | WOOT WOOT!! thanks again | 22:13 |
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| * lardman is seriously thinking about getting a TomTom | 22:20 | |
| KotCzarny | a tamtam? | 22:20 |
| lardman | isn't that a biscuit? | 22:21 |
| KotCzarny | kind of a drum | 22:21 |
| KotCzarny | i think | 22:21 |
| lardman | oh right | 22:21 |
| woglinde | lardman why? | 22:21 |
| lardman | had hassles navigating today | 22:21 |
| lardman | hmm, spelling there? | 22:22 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lardman: I loved tomtom on a ppc. replaced it with a garmin nuvi and regretted ever since :/ | 22:22 |
| lardman | yeah, one of my mates has a Garmin and it's crap | 22:22 |
| lardman | imho | 22:22 |
| woglinde | why is the garmin crap? | 22:22 |
| lardman | it send him down every small road it can find :) | 22:22 |
| lardman | yeah, might be something to do with the setup, but he says not | 22:23 |
| qwerty12_N800 | the maps that came with suck lumpy pieces of shit and it recalculates the route every 10 mins | 22:23 |
| woglinde | ah okay | 22:23 |
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| lardman | I'd still like something open source, but seeing the lack of roads in Northampton shown on osm, I'm worried | 22:24 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | + the simulation feature of it doesn't have a speed control. let's just say i sat through a 2 hour journey from london to halifax... | 22:24 |
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| woglinde | lardman then contribute them | 22:25 |
| woglinde | *duck and hide* | 22:25 |
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| lardman | indeed, I don't live there though, just had to visit | 22:25 |
| qwerty12_N800 | btw, hey KotCzarny , haven't seen you for a while | 22:25 |
| lardman | I'd still like to look at the mapping/routing stuff, just need something that works (TM ;) when I need it | 22:26 |
| lardman | if only the n900 were here - then I could justify Google routing updates + maemo mapper | 22:27 |
| melmoth | second hand tamtam for now then ? | 22:27 |
| melmoth | at least..it works. | 22:27 |
| jott | lardman: maybe take a look at roadmap or navit. | 22:27 |
| lardman | jott: still use osm data backend, so if they lack the data there's no helping it | 22:27 |
| jott | besides osm they support some commercial maps | 22:27 |
| lardman | yeah, Garmin, but no routing with navit afaict | 22:28 |
| jott | ah i thought so. | 22:28 |
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| lardman | melmoth: yeah, probably get a new one, have road speed limits built in I think - signs always appear when you're doing something else like navigating a roundabout/sign | 22:29 |
| melmoth | if i had a car, and had to drive, that would be my choice too. | 22:30 |
| melmoth | luckily, i do not have one :-) | 22:30 |
| lardman | I thought it might motivate me to write something, but.... | 22:31 |
| lardman | still interested, just need something that works, etc. | 22:31 |
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| melmoth | talking about wich, i hope to finish the graph representation of paris in C this week end. so i can compare the memory usage with python | 22:32 |
| melmoth | but my C is awfull, and i write really slow (have to learn at the same time) | 22:32 |
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| melmoth | then, may be, being able to use the same A* routing thingy, and may be have something usable in town | 22:33 |
| jott | lardman: well you could add routing support for garmin maps in navit. if it's missing, there are probably quite some people happy when it's done :) | 22:33 |
| lardman | melmoth: well thanks for your work, C it is I think at least for the maemo-mapper backend | 22:35 |
| lardman | jott: yeah, I don;t have any Garmin maps though, otherwise I might be tempted | 22:35 |
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| lardman | If I could work out the TeleAtlas format on the other hand (assuming that's the TomTom one)... but that sounds like lots of work! | 22:36 |
| melmoth | a proper maemomapper backend would require much more work (i think soemthing like 2 level in city level and inter city one). | 22:36 |
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| melmoth | are third party application using such data allowed ? | 22:37 |
| lardman | melmoth: probably not allowed | 22:37 |
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| lardman | melmoth: yeah, I'm sure it would be some work, interesting to work out how to do it though | 22:37 |
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| lardman | hmm, /me wonders about getting a usb-vga adaptor | 22:41 |
| lardman | I see the cheap ones are sis chipset too, just wonder whether I'll get time to hack at it before the new device is out | 22:41 |
| lardman | fyi http://www.xengda.com.tw/en_products_u2v_8mb.htm | 22:43 |
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| lardman | apparently this is the one maplin are selling, which looks like lots of the others, so probably all the same chipset | 22:43 |
| jott | so what's the cheapest one you found in europe, lardman? | 22:47 |
| lardman | I guess somewhere around £120 | 22:48 |
| * jott looks forward to 1st december where import allowance is increased to 150 euro :) | 22:48 | |
| lardman | for a latest TomTom One | 22:48 |
| lardman | :) so not too far off at the current exchange rate! | 22:48 |
| * lardman will probably see who's offering deals, tmc would be useful too | 22:49 | |
| jott | does this import allowance also apply in the uk? or just "euro" states? | 22:49 |
| lardman | no idea, our import regs are rather opaque | 22:49 |
| lardman | they tend to just charge if they find out, afaict | 22:49 |
| jott | well there should be some threshold (in germany it's currently 22 euro afair) that is free of charge. | 22:50 |
| jott | this will apparently be increased by some eu regulations to 150 euro in december. | 22:51 |
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| handful | rg270edu | 22:51 |
| jott | thanks for the password :P | 22:51 |
| handful | yeah | 22:51 |
| handful | still the nick :) goddamn mac osx | 22:51 |
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| handful | at least I am dumb enough to guess the wrong pass :) | 22:54 |
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| lardman | handful: we believe you, really! ;) | 22:58 |
| handful | :) it was really, but this was the internettablet talk one | 22:59 |
| handful | :) | 22:59 |
| liri | an 8db sd card is supported on the n810 right? | 22:59 |
| lardman | quick! to itt! :) | 22:59 |
| handful | hehe I've changed hehee | 22:59 |
| GAN800 | lol | 22:59 |
| handful | :) dumb but not too slow hehe | 22:59 |
| GAN800 | Garmin works great in the states. | 22:59 |
| lardman | damn, I was going to go abuse Ryan on your behalf ;) | 22:59 |
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| lardman | how are you anyway GAN800? | 23:00 |
| handful | lol | 23:00 |
| lardman | GAN800: might just be the firmware or some setting, but it's put me off for sure | 23:00 |
| GAN800 | Just waking up from a short nap on a fine Thursday afternoon and feeling thirsty. . . . | 23:00 |
| * lardman is consuming wine, been a long day, Northampton and back | 23:01 | |
| GAN800 | Likely a setting, you cam configure it to prefer small roads and such in navigation options. | 23:01 |
| lardman | I did enquire as to whether that was the problem, and was told *NO*. :D | 23:01 |
| GAN800 | lol | 23:02 |
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| GAN800 | Probably is the problem, then. : | 23:02 |
| GAN800 | P | 23:02 |
| lardman | true :) | 23:03 |
| lardman | I do think it has issues with re-routing though, apparently something to do with time-of-day | 23:03 |
| *** qwerty12_ is now known as qwerty12_N800 | 23:03 | |
| lardman | doesn't appear to keep the current location vs predicted (wrt time) calculate until you hit that segment, etc. | 23:04 |
| lardman | hmm, that doesn't make sense | 23:04 |
| * Jaffa has finished off a (small) bottle of wine this evening. | 23:05 | |
| Jaffa | Now to do the code review I *didn't* do earlier | 23:05 |
| lardman | Jaffa: so you understand my text?! :) | 23:05 |
| lardman | make | 23:05 |
| lardman | oops, wrong window | 23:05 |
| handful | lard that's less destructive :) | 23:05 |
| lardman | hmm, navit svn doesn't compile | 23:07 |
| jott | handful: yeah we can probably feed john the ripper with your password scheme to hack all your accounts :P | 23:07 |
| Jaffa | lardman: actually, yes - Id o :-) | 23:07 |
| handful | jott: yeah , I changed just 2, so probably a lot of sites will use it :) heuhuehue | 23:08 |
| lardman | Jaffa: good stuff :) | 23:08 |
| * jott drinks a club-mate to keep the c-base spirit :) | 23:08 | |
| lardman | my uni sells Ubuntu cola! | 23:09 |
| lardman | quite surprised | 23:09 |
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| KotCzarny | is it legal? | 23:09 |
| KotCzarny | hi qwerty | 23:09 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hi | 23:10 |
| lardman | lol, the two in the same sentence ;) | 23:10 |
| jott | lardman: well check your target audience :) | 23:10 |
| qwerty12_N800 | there's a thread on ubuntu cola @ itt | 23:10 |
| * lardman needs sugar-free | 23:10 | |
| KotCzarny | fft | 23:11 |
| KotCzarny | aspartam will kill you faster than sugar | 23:11 |
| lardman | Fourier? | 23:11 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 23:11 |
| jott | look for xubuntu cola that's probably sugar free :P | 23:11 |
| lardman | ah, I lack Insulin | 23:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Why do people hard-wrap in the wiki? <_< | 23:11 |
| KotCzarny | ahm | 23:11 |
| KotCzarny | brb, reboot | 23:11 |
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| lardman | argh, even the release source won't compile! | 23:12 |
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| jott | yuck. | 23:12 |
| jott | on your host or in sbox? | 23:12 |
| lardman | sbox | 23:12 |
| lardman | some Python binding error | 23:13 |
| jott | arr.. | 23:13 |
| jott | sbox is somewhat broken.. | 23:13 |
| lardman | sorry, my fault | 23:13 |
| lardman | some error compiling the python bindings | 23:14 |
| jott | just blame the wine ;) | 23:14 |
| lardman | yeah :) | 23:14 |
| jott | make sure you use the arm python. | 23:14 |
| lardman | hmm skipping incompatible /scratchbox/tools/lib/python2.3/config/libpython2.3.a when searching for -lpython2.3 | 23:14 |
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| jott | (i.e. replace python with python2.5 everywhere) | 23:14 |
| * lardman wonders if he's upgraded | 23:15 | |
| lardman | is it apt-get dist-upgrade ? | 23:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Who was it that decided we could use the word "flashing" in | 23:15 |
| jott | na it takes the redirected python (ie. x86 python) | 23:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~flashing? | 23:15 |
| infobot | flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 23:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | <_< | 23:15 |
| jott | thus it can compile arm based bindings.. | 23:15 |
| jott | can't | 23:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Please look at these google results and tell me that was a good decision. . . . http://www.google.com/search?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&q=flashing+n800 | 23:16 |
| lardman | jott: ah, ok | 23:16 |
| lardman | jott: I'll look for a configure switch to disable the bindings then | 23:16 |
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| GNUton | Hi there | 23:18 |
| GNUton | Hi jott! :) | 23:18 |
| woglinde | hi gnuton | 23:18 |
| jott | hello gnuton | 23:19 |
| Luria | yo | 23:19 |
| GNUton | :D | 23:19 |
| lardman | hmm, can't see anything, will have to do a web search | 23:19 |
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| malikul | can anyone do a sanity check on my python command real fast? i am calling os.execvp( 'sudo', ['sudo', 'program', '-s', '-f', '/tmp/config']) is that correct? I have been trolling goodle but cannot get a good answer for when using sudo to call a program with command args | 23:20 |
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| woglinde | malikul why you need this? maybee your app design is not that good | 23:21 |
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| malikul | woglinde: is a background process that when triggered will call an existing program given a set of arguements. | 23:22 |
| malikul | runs on the nokia n810 | 23:23 |
| woglinde | malikul what is your app doing? | 23:23 |
| melmoth | why is sudo part of the argument too ? | 23:23 |
| malikul | init.d controls running as user instead of root | 23:23 |
| woglinde | sudo will only work in r&d mode | 23:23 |
| malikul | sudo is required because the programs being called use root perms. I updated the /etc/sudoers and included and I am using gainroot | 23:24 |
| woglinde | malikul so you will do not distribut it? | 23:24 |
| malikul | yeah this is for my development systems. speed up configuration while testing | 23:25 |
| malikul | woglinde: original guy working on it wrote in python...and Iam no python master. :-( | 23:25 |
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| malikul | woglinde: so did I write the python command correct? | 23:32 |
| malikul | woglinde: und danka woglinde for your help | 23:32 |
| mikkov_ | malikul: I use sudo in python this way: command =["sudo",self.startcmd,"--daemon","--writepid",self.pid_file,"--config",self.conf_file] | 23:34 |
| mikkov_ | Popen(command, shell=False, stdin=PIPE, stdout=None, cwd=self.conf_dir) | 23:34 |
| mikkov_ | or this way: call(['sudo','/usr/libexec/openvpn-applet-helper.py', 'delete', f]) | 23:35 |
| mikkov_ | yours could be correct too ;) | 23:35 |
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| malikul | mikkov_: thanks I will change the command and see how it works | 23:36 |
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| mikkov_ | malikul: actually, my way isn't exactly what execvp does (just read the documentation) | 23:38 |
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| * RST38h is looking at Knol. What a collection of bullshit... | 23:53 | |
| RST38h | Like this pearl: http://knol.google.com/k/kathleen-walker/personhood/1i8eo9yaqmlb5/5# | 23:55 |
| * qwerty12_N800 wants google knob | 23:56 | |
| RST38h | connected to a cattle prod no doubt? | 23:58 |
| RST38h | knol's article on ntsc isn't even correct... | 23:59 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Awesome | 23:59 |
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