IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2008-09-24

aquatixseems like it's from canola2 indeed00:00
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* aquatix gone00:01
aquatixg'night folks00:01
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q0shey guys, what do i do if my package.install file needs more than one catalogue (because of diffrent dependencies) to install properly?00:08
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aladdsStskeeps: sorry, had a phone call00:14
aladdsso i made the folder, copied the files00:15
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aladdsand by makefile type of person do you mean do i know how to write one? if so then no sorry00:15
aladdsbut i can use them00:15
aladdsand i can learn00:15
aladdsifup wlan0 works :D00:16
aladdsit's doing SHCPDISCOVER00:16
aladdsbut it might want to find a base station00:16
aladdswhere do i tell it to get that from?00:17
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aladdsit has iwconfig :)00:17
aladdsisn't connecting though00:18
aladdsNo DHCPOFFERS received.00:18
aladdsNo working leases in persistent database - sleeping.00:18
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* aladds thinks he's fried his 77001:22
aladdsit won't power on01:23
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aladdsand i did just accidentally connect 9V to the usb line...01:23
q0saccidentally? ;) who that?01:23
aladdswell i connected the battery to the out side of the 7805 rather than the in side...01:24
lardman|tvderf: you about?01:24
q0s;) why?01:24
derflardman|tv: Yes.01:24
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lardmanderf: are bytes_per_packet bytes passed to celt_encode(), or how else does one work out how much of the input buffer will be read?01:25
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derflardman: No, frame_size*channels 16-bit samples are passed to celt_encode().01:26
derfbytes_per_packet is how many bytes are produced.01:27
lardmanok, so the entire buffer is used, of course01:27
derf(Right now I believe one byte is stored in each unsigned char, regardless of whether it's 8 or 16-bit)01:27
derflardman: Correct.01:27
lardmanok, second question, should I pass the data across as one byte per char, or does the code operate on 16bit data automatically?01:28
KotCzarnyaladds: good occasion to get n8x0 then :)01:28
KotCzarnyand sell 770 for parts :)01:28
aladdsexcept i ws helping Stskeeps get deblet running on the 770...01:28
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aladdsi only paid £40 for it actually01:28
aladdsso at least i'm not that much out of pocket01:29
derflardman: The input should be celt_int16_t's.01:29
KotCzarnystylus alone could be worth 5-10$01:29
aladdsbut it won't turn on at all01:29
q0sor you can wait for the next device generation ...01:29
derfHopefully in the same byte order on ARM and DSP.01:29
lardmanderf: ok, will leave it as a "packed" buffer then01:30
aladdsyeah it's just dead01:30
aladdscompletely black01:30
derfThe compressed output, however, will have to be re-packed on one side or the other.01:30
aladdsi'll post on iTT :P01:30
lardmanthe output is in terms of chars?01:30
KotCzarny'don't connect 9v to usb kids!' ? :)01:30
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derfSo it'll be different sizes on ARM and DSP, which is clearly a problem.01:31
q0sand dont put in your tongue too :D01:31
lardmanshould be ok as the dsp will both encode then decode the data01:31
lardmanso should be 16bit in and out01:31
derflardman: True.01:31
derfAs long as you size the buffers accordingly.01:31
lardmanbut yes, otherwise it would need to write the data to the upper and lower halves of the output buffer, not a big issue01:32
lardmanupper and lower halves of the 16bit chars in the output buffer that should be01:32
derfThat code's in entenc.c and entdec.c.01:33
derfBut it's probably simpler to pack/unpack in a separate step before/afterwards.01:33
lardmanprobably not going to do more this evening, will post the code though for you to take a look see01:33
lardmannot finished the code to pass across the init data or to receive that data on the DSP-side01:36
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lardmanalso need to prune some of the global vars on the DSP-side01:37
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derfUnfortunately I'm going to be quite busy at work the next few days, but I appreciate all your help so far.01:38
lardmannp, will see if I can get it to compile tomorrow01:38
derfI still need to get a dev environment for the DSP set up.01:39
aladdsKotCzarny: I didn't do it deliberatly :P01:42
* aladds is not completely stupid01:42
KotCzarnywhat did you needed 9v for?01:42
aladds9v goes to 780501:42
aladds7805 gives me 5v01:42
aladds5v powers usb & keyboard01:42
aladdskeyboard lets me type01:43
KotCzarnyahm, self made usb power injector01:43
aladdsi had it working01:43
aladdsbut it was a bit heath robinson01:43
aladdsso i made it again01:43
KotCzarnyi got me bt kb01:43
KotCzarnyi'm lazy01:43
aladdswith a little piece of verobord01:43
aladdsbt kb is more expensive (and don't say not as expensive as frying your 770 :P)01:43
KotCzarnyis it?01:44
KotCzarny25$ used01:44
aladdscouldn't find one for less than £4001:44
KotCzarnycraigslist ?01:44
aladdsnot so great in uk01:44
aladdshardly anyone uses it01:44
lardmanderf: right, updated the DSP code, should actually make sense now :)01:44
aladdsand loads of people post in the uk cambridge group from cambridge MA, which *really* annoys me01:45
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* aladds might actually get an iPod touch01:46
aladdsi'm learning objective-c...01:46
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KotCzarnyisn't obj-c dead?01:46
aladdsand i could make some money01:46
KotCzarnyor it's academics?01:46
aladdsapple still use it01:47
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aladdsit's actually quite a good language01:47
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KotCzarnyhe was fast01:50
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derflardman: Is it possible to have separate encode and decode tasks, or will they have to live in a single task? (in the future, in a single task is fine for now)01:51
lardmanno, they could quite happily live in separate tasks, would just need two handles opened on the arm-side01:52
derfThough maybe sharing the mode setup is worth keeping them in a single one.01:52
derfIt's not that much data, though.01:52
lardmannah, I guess you'll want them separate eventually01:53
derf(encode+decode needs about 8k of space)01:53
lardmanI've no idea how much is available01:53
lardmanor whether there's a per-thread limit01:53
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derfI mean, on most hardware that should fit in L1 cache.01:54
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lardmanok, again not sure what the DSP has in that respect01:54
derfJM got mad at me for wanting to use a 10k table to make things faster.01:54
lardmanso what other #defines should I use?01:55
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lardmanI saw a DSP one01:56
lardmanWORDS_BIGENDIAN looks interesting; you say this is supposed to run on the C55 DSP?01:57
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derfCONFIG_TI_C55X and TI_C5X_ASM, probably.01:59
derfWORDS_BIGENDIAN should only matter for header data, which isn't important if you aren't writing a file.02:00
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lardmanit may matter if reading bits out of a 32bit type too02:01
derfThat's only done in the header (I would never have written that code that way, but that part is by no means finalized)02:01
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lardmanbed time for me02:07
KotCzarnynity nite02:07
lardmanderf: will let you know how I get on with the compilation tomorrow02:07
lardmannight all02:07
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solmumahaany linux users up who sometimes uses the tablet to view videos?02:16
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KotCzarnyhow sometimes?02:17
solmumahaeven once? :)02:17
KotCzarnyme then02:17
KotCzarnydid some encoding too02:17
solmumahawhat are you using?02:17
KotCzarnyon tablet02:17
KotCzarnyone and only02:17
KotCzarnyand canola sometimes02:17
solmumahado you stream them?02:17
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KotCzarnyalthough mplayer supports rtsp and other network protocols02:18
solmumahai wrote an app that streams videos from a nix box last year02:19
solmumaharequires vlc 0.9 which was just released02:19
KotCzarnyfor watching or streaming?02:19
solmumahai'm just wondering if i should release it02:19
solmumahayou can watch videos, dvds and live-tv with it02:20
solmumahaand transcode and transfer them to the device02:21
solmumahaand it supports seeking in transcoded stream too02:21
KotCzarnycan't help with strategic decisions02:21
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KotCzarnytechnical, yes02:22
KotCzarnystrategic, rather not :)02:22
solmumahait's written in ruby so that may be a turnoff for some02:22
KotCzarnyi prefer php personally02:22
solmumahaand alterego never got them to extras02:22
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solmumahaoh dear, then i can't take your advices02:23
KotCzarnypity all nice scripting languages require 10+ mb of disc space02:23
solmumahaand pity the ruby bindings aren't finished02:24
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solmumahathey are stable, but missing some stuff02:24
Kegetysor Lua02:24
KotCzarnykegetys: link to source ?02:24
solmumahaevening mr. ofp02:25
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KotCzarnyYour program ran successfully.02:26
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KotCzarnyinteresting name for lua ide: 'brain damage'02:27
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solmumahawell anyways, here's a shitty quality video of it:
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KotCzarnylooks nice02:31
KotCzarnywhere did you get graphics from?02:32
KotCzarnybut illegible vid02:33
KotCzarnyso it's hard to read what are you doing02:33
solmumahayes, came out pretty bad, last time it was more focused02:33
solmumahabut it's a cheap camera, no sound in video02:33
solmumahai think i got the icons from or something02:34
solmumaharest is just gtk02:34
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* GeneralAntilles isn't entirely happy with Jaffa's email.03:07
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AndrewfblackI got a non maemo question its not really a linux question but how come I can't find a driver for my sound could anywhere for windows but if I run linux it works fine03:33
KotCzarnyyou are probably looking for wrong driver03:34
KotCzarnyrun everest 2.20 and it should tell you link to drivers/manufacturer03:34
AndrewfblackI've been looking for a driver for this sound card for over a year and03:34
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KotCzarnyor sisoft sandra03:34
KotCzarnyor anything03:35
KotCzarnyor buy yourself current el-cheapo sound card03:35
bef0rdcheck the pci id using linux, 'lspci'  and then look for drivers with it03:35
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bitemeis anyone talking in here, I am testing out a chat client on a webpage, and it seems like  its not working, but it may just be dead in here?03:43
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KotCzarnytry #sex03:44
KotCzarnyif in doubt03:44
KotCzarnyunless it's banned from freenode03:44
penguinbaitseems to be working03:44
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nemoheh. awesome03:46
nemoKotCzarny: I visited #sex just out of curiosity - cute redirect03:46
nemowonder how many words are linked to it03:46
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KotCzarnydon't know, but shows this network isn't so fuzz friendly03:47
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AndrewfblackI have audio now thanks03:50
Andrewfblacktook me a year to get it back lol03:51
KotCzarnythanks to who?03:51
NaviThanks to me.03:51
GeneralAntillesGo Navi!03:51
AndrewfblackI used everest03:51
KotCzarnyyeah, pity newer versions are shareware03:51
NaviOh yeah, I meant to suggest something, but forgot to03:51
KotCzarnybut for old stuff it's nice03:52
Andrewfblackyeah the bad think is I knew I needed sis driver but I looked for almost a year and never got the right ont03:52
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KotCzarnyyou may have fish now03:55
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penguinbaitwell if you ever want to access #maemo with an IRC client, it can be accessed from click on chat03:57
KotCzarnywhat backend it uses?03:58
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KotCzarnyserver side or client side?03:58
penguinbaitwordpress plugin03:59
KotCzarnybut it forwards through the server?03:59
KotCzarnyie. your website03:59
GeneralAntillespenguinbait, syndicate to
KotCzarnyor connects directly to irc?03:59
penguinbaitI belive its direct from javascript on your pc to irc server04:00
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KotCzarnythat would be interesting04:00
penguinbaitworks with 810 also04:00
GeneralAntillesWow! Java IRC clients? So novel and exciting!04:01
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KotCzarny^ stupid04:01
penguinbaithey I am easy to please04:01
KotCzarnyjava != javascript04:01
penguinbaitdid you like the wordpress theme?04:02
penguinbaitI edited it to add the targus mouse and 81004:02
penguinbaitoh, and the nokia keyboard on top04:03
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GeneralAntillespenguinbait, did you syndicate it yet?04:03
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penguinbaitwhat do you mean?04:04
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penguinbaitnice, I will04:06
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KotCzarnyso it's server based. meh04:07
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KotCzarnypity, but may be nice idea to implement irc client in js (assuming it can open tcp connections)04:09
penguinbait_608so your saying its transmitting all data back to my webserver then out to the IRC server?04:09
KotCzarnynot yours04:09
MekI doubt javascript would be able to open tcp connections to anything but the host the script came from, if it can do it at all04:09
KotCzarnyunless you own chathostplus.com04:09
KotCzarnymek: that's why i pity04:10
KotCzarnyotoh, it saves us from the havoc on the internet04:10
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Dregs_FlaKashubians rule04:29
KotCzarnythose are the folks from pomerania?04:29
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Dregs_Flaclose to that area yes04:30
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lcuknite chan04:43
KotCzarnynite nite04:43
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* jpereiran leaving for bed! []s05:11
Mikhowould anybody know of a program like ms visio for linux?05:12
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Mikhowhat do people usually use to draw diagrams?05:15
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MikhoI mean, entity relationship diagrams and so on05:17
KotCzarnythat i do not know05:18
Mikhodia seems to do what I want, but the objects are incredibly ugly05:22
* GeneralAntilles wonders what the status is on the servers.05:23
Mikhoxfig seems to have the same problem05:26
KotCzarnymikho: wine ?05:26
derfMikho: I mean, it depends on how much time you want to spend, I suppose.05:26
derf was done with xfig.05:27
KotCzarnynot bad05:27
KotCzarnylittle trippy too05:28
derfYeah, that was the idea.05:28
Mikhowell, I'd like the figures to look pleasing for non-engineers as well05:28
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Mikhooh well, maybe I'm stuck with visio then05:31
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wizaMikho: have you tried kivio? I used it couple of years ago when I needed to do some flowcharts05:34
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KotCzarnyGoogle co-founder Sergey Brin even mentioned writing an app that, if you throw the G1 in the air, calculates how long it spends flying before falling back in your hand (or the floor).05:50
KotCzarnyi miss accelerometer in my n800 :/05:51
robinkThe n800 has an accelerometer?05:51
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KotCzarnyi wouldn't miss it if it had05:52
summatusmentishas anyone played with android on the n8x0?05:52
KotCzarnysts: probably, but i bet without wifi it's not that much fun05:52
KotCzarnybut i was under the rock for a few last months05:52
GeneralAntillessummatusmentis, sure, but only a way old version.05:53
summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: has there been any progress since?05:53
summatusmentisany idea?05:53
GeneralAntillesIt's a dead end.05:55
GeneralAntillesFramebuffer is too slow05:55
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GeneralAntillesDoesn't matter, a phone OS on the tablets is stupid anyway.05:57
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KotCzarnynot true05:57
KotCzarnyas long you are within wifi/wimax05:57
KotCzarnyshower time, bbl05:57
summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: it's a 'smartphone OS' and the phone cpart could be taken out05:58
summatusmentisGrackle: UMO?05:58
GeneralAntillesDoesn't matter05:59
GeneralAntillesstill stupid.05:59
Gracklesummatusmentis, I go to the university of maine at orono, yeah..06:00
summatusmentisGrackle: I'm from there, or about 45 minutes north06:00
GrackleHah, no kidding. What town?06:01
summatusmentisSebec, right near Dover-Foxcroft?06:02
GrackleAh, I know Dover-Foxcroft. Well that's neat.. You're the about the fourth Mainer I've met on the internet :P06:03
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summatusmentisGrackle: sorry, wasn't paying attention. How do you know Dover?07:03
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GrackleI know where it is on the map, that's about it.07:06
summatusmentishaha, oh07:06
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fiekiaoh hi08:28
fiekiathe gnomes under my bed say hi08:29
RST38hfeed 'em more mushrooms08:30
fiekiaoh wrong chan lol08:30
KotCzarnygive us all your keys08:32
RST38hscary shit08:32
KotCzarnypoisonous too08:33
KotCzarnyunless you are talking about gnomes08:33
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RST38hperfect for toilet bombings08:35
fiekiai cracked a password off of a managed dell switch today08:35
RST38hfiekia: good boy, take a hamburger08:35
fiekiaom nom nom nom08:35
KotCzarnyand clean up the mess08:36
KotCzarnyyou made while cracking the dell08:36
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fiekiadid you know dell powerconnect emulates the ios console???08:36
KotCzarnythose.. emulators08:37
KotCzarnygo original08:37
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fiekiai know other switches do too but they are usually made by people who have left cisco08:37
fiekialike juniper or something... actually i havdent a clue about juniper08:38
fiekiaso how about that shoddy gps08:38
KotCzarnyfinnish guy is at it again08:38
KotCzarnyfiekia: in n810?08:39
KotCzarnydepends on visibility/e-m noise in  your area08:39
KotCzarnyalthough i have played only one evening with it08:39
KotCzarnyit worked ok in my apartment08:40
fiekiai wish it wered more sensitive08:40
KotCzarnykind of08:40
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KotCzarny<1m from window it worked ok08:40
fiekiai deleted the default mapping software08:40
fiekiai managed to maintain signal indoors after aquiring a signal outside08:41
fiekiaim not sure if id rather spend my money on a bluetooth kb or bt gps08:43
RST38hPittsburgh Public Schools officials have enacted a policy that sets 50 percent as the minimum score a student can receive for assignments, tests and other work.08:43
doc|homeor what?08:43
doc|homeyou scored 49%! off to gitmo!08:44
RST38h"District spokeswoman Ebony Pugh said, the 50 percent minimum gives children a chance to catch up and a reason to keep trying."08:44
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RST38hWith the first name "Ebony"...08:44
doc|homeeducational socialism08:44
RST38heducational inflation, I would say08:45
doc|homenah, that always existed08:45
doc|homein my parents' time an elementary school education was enough to get a reasonable job08:45
doc|homenow it's getting so that a degree, or even a masters is the minimum08:46
KotCzarnyand last name pony08:48
KotCzarnybtw. do you know mr goodenough?08:48
KotCzarnywonder if it's a family name08:49
KotCzarnyor just showing off08:49
RST38hWell, given that it is written all over his scientific papers...08:54
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mavhcwell, you could move to china and get a reasonable job making ipods09:01
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RST38hyou could not09:03
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Stskeepswoop, internet10:05
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thuxjohnx: got your beta3 in chroot use and wondering how could start services in chroot debian when main system diablo starts?10:17
RST38hehlo xfade10:18
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johnxhey Thux. good timing10:20
johnxthux, I would say just create a service in diablo that chroots into your debian chroot and starts services10:21
johnxshould be pretty straightforward10:21
johnxhi Luria_10:21
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JaffaMorning, all10:32
RST38hmoo, jaffa10:32
johnxRST38h, so what are your thoughts on android?10:32
johnxmornin' Jaffa10:32
Luria_im thinking of getting a g1 just for the plan10:33
RST38hjohnx: same as before - it won't unseat winmobile or symbian in its current state10:33
RST38hjohnx: and it won't get a lot of developers, with its java-centered sdk and weird activity-based framework10:33
RST38hAll things being as they are, Google will toy with it for a while and then close it down10:34
Luria_sigh... i'm having my fill of cli fun... this is like '92 all over again10:34
johnxRST38h, do you think unseating WinMo and Symbian are its goals?10:34
johnxit looks like a high-end feature phone to me10:35
Luria_no, grabbing the 80% of non feature phones is10:35
RST38hNO AUDIO JACK, johnx10:35
JaffaRST38h: did Java bite you as a child, or something? "won't get a lot of developers, with its java-centred sdk". ObjectiveC doesn't stop iPhone devs, and despite its crapness there are an *awful* lot of Java ME apps (all crap, admittedly)10:35
RST38hjohnx: feature phones feel just fine without android *or* expensive handsets made by htc10:35
RST38hJaffa: I have seen about 3-4 usable ME apps10:36
RST38hJaffa: And even those are slow and prone to crashes10:36
Luria_and android doesnt require you to develop under a specific os10:36
* Jaffa didn't say they were good; he was debating your premise of Java == no-developers10:37
Luria_yeah, bejewled ftw10:37
RST38hJaffa: Oh, there will be a lot of developers making another socila network app or another stupid tetris game10:37
johnxRST38h, google isn't selling android to users. They're selling it to phone makers.10:37
RST38hjohnx: won't fly either10:38
johnxRST38h, I disagree with you there10:38
johnxespecially since I think they're hardly "selling" so much as "giving away"10:38
RST38hjohnx: they have all got their own offerings not based on a third company apps suite10:38
RST38hJaffa: There will not be: video players, video manipulation, emulators, dynamic games10:39
Luria_sigh... an android phone probably has more computing power than this machine...10:39
RST38hjohnx: Read the article carefully. You will see that they are "giving away" a funny selection of features10:39
johnxRST38h, yes there will be video players. It will be handled at a lower layer. canola is written in python but it calls a graphics library in C to do the heavy lifting10:39
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RST38hjohnx: "Handled at a lower layer" means "google has to provide codecs"10:40
RST38hjohnx: How open is that?10:40
johnxRST38h, not very open. that wasn't my point. :)10:40
JaffaRST38h: At OSiM they demoed a video player with alpha transparency10:40
RST38hJaffa: Implemented using their public SDK?10:40
RST38hjohnx: well, it was mine10:41
johnxRST38h, their whole UI is written with their SDK10:41
JaffaRST38h: you keep changing your point: is it: there won't be any devs? there won't be any good apps except tetris games? there won't be any video players? there won't be any video players which don't use some form of library to do all the work?10:41
RST38hjohnx: So?10:41
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RST38hJaffa: I do not consider authors of crappy ME apps "developers"10:42
johnxok, let's agree to disagree10:42
RST38hJaffa: Has my point become coherent now?10:42
Luria_developers developers developers10:42
JaffaYou don't consider Java developers "developers", so you're argument is logically consistent (internally, at least)10:42
johnxRST38h, no one will make you use an android-based phone. We promise to keep them away from you. :P10:42
RST38hJaffa: No, as I said before, there are some useful, good (as far as ME allows) ME apps10:43
RST38hJaffa: The percentage is extremely small though10:43
Luria_anyone which hdspa bands the htc dream uses/can use?10:43
RST38hjohnx: Well, it is not like I expect to buy one. But you asked my opinion, so here it is.10:43
Luria_is it just tmobile's oddball 1700?10:43
Luria_uh, anyone know10:44
RST38hWell it has to be tmobile's10:44
johnxRST38h, fair enough.10:44
RST38hjohnx: E72/E75, on the other hand...10:44
Luria_right, but htc is the only company i know that makes a quadband hsdpa phone10:44
Luria_i was hoping the dream might have more than 1700mhz10:44
johnxRST38h, nice phones. too expensive.10:45
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RST38hLuria: Not a $179 one, I guess?10:45
Luria_yeah, actually10:45
Luria_att tile10:45
RST38hjohnx: Actualy, they will probably be in $350-$450 range. Not very expensive10:45
RST38hLuria: then there is a good chance G1 has the same hardware :)10:45
johnxRST38h, is that with contract? or without?10:45
RST38hjohnx: You are forgetting where I live10:45
RST38hjohnx: What contract? :)10:46
X-FadeI've just added Penguinbait's blog to our planet. Nice to see him blog about cool stuff.10:46
johnxRST38h, heh :P10:46
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RST38hMore concerned that the screen will be now-standard crappy 320x240. My E70 is 416x35210:46
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Luria_RST38h - on which phone?10:47
johnxjust like the iphone10:47
johnxHVGA != QVGA10:47
RST38hjohnx: No, it does not go like that wiht Symbian ;)10:48
RST38hjohnx: Original Symbian/S60 display was 176x208 pixels10:48
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johnxRST38h, aaah...still on about the e7x?10:48
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RST38hjohnx: They doubled it for S60e3 to save on software rehash10:49
johnxI thought that was aimed at the goo-phone10:49
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RST38hBut then they saw that updating 416x352 is a bit slow and went with 320x24010:49
RST38hgoophone I do not care about, but if you care, it is 480x320 like iphone10:49
johnxright, I thought you were saying it was 320x24010:50
johnxlost the thread of conversation10:50
Luria_thread or threat?10:51
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johnxare you threatening to talk to me?10:52
Luria_dunno. are you threatening to listen?10:52
johnxnope :P10:52
Luria_there you go10:52
thuxjohnx: ok, btw should /proc be mounted in /chroot/proc ?10:53
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johnxthux, probably some apps will want it10:53
thuxok just like in pc10:53
Luria_so, i'm drawing some odd looks right now; im in a nyc cafe typing on a luggable. and since i cant get xorg working, im using bitchx and elinks in full ansi glory.10:54
johnxthux, yup10:54
johnxLuria, awesome10:54
Luria_someone asked me if im talking to the space shuttle.10:54
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Luria_better yet, i did this debian floppy install here over my etherlink 3 card. i knew holding onto isa cards would pay off some day.10:55
Luria_nifty looking machine, but strange innards.10:56
johnxLuria, what is it?10:56
X-FadeOh, that brings back memories ;)10:56
johnxI always like weird portable machines?10:56
Luria_airlink communications amd k6/366mhz, 128mb, 6.5gb10:57
Luria_it had a gpib isa cards, but i yanked that and put in the 3c50910:57
Luria_wanted to keep both for use with my oscope, but it wont fit in the last isa slot b/c of the cpu/ram daughter card10:58
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Luria_there is a four slot backplane, one of which has a four slot isa riser10:59
Luria_just arrived today off ebay10:59
johnxwhen you say "luggable" do you mean big laptop or small desktop?11:00
Luria_16lbs, no battery11:00
johnxwell, you'll get a workout11:00
Luria_detachable clicky keyboard11:00
Luria_with real keys11:01
Luria_also, the cpu daughtercard has a pc104 socket11:01
Luria_which is interesting, but useless11:02
johnxthat's pretty strange11:02
Luria_yeah i imagine they just repurposed a pc104 board for the daughter card and had an isa bridge tacked on11:02
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Luria_still thinking about how to do wifi on this. my best idea involves putting a router inside the case and drawing off the 5v rail, and wiring the ethernet cable to it11:04
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johnxwhat about isa -> pcmcia -> cf wifi ?11:05
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johnxor are you out of isa slots now?11:05
Luria_thought of that, but im not sure a pcmcia host card will fit11:05
Luria_i am, but i could pop the 3c50911:06
Luria_and switch between ethernet and wifi11:06
Luria_but the idea of having a wifi router internally is kinda neat, especially if it has two wifi radios11:07
Luria_portable instant wifi vampire11:07
johnxlots of wifi routers these days are almost as powerful as your k6 :D11:07
Luria_probably more so :-)11:08
johnxyou could farm out some apps to the router and use the luggable as an x terminal11:08
johnxya'know...if you get x working11:08
Luria_weird graphic card. actually, i have two cards11:08
Luria_one vga on the cpu card11:09
Luria_one vga driving the tft11:09
Luria_the latter is odd. i think its actually dvi11:09
johnxprobably not dvi11:09
johnxprobably something similar though11:09
Luria_bios is 1999, so who knows.11:10
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johnxI'm surprised it was isa slots11:11
johnxI figured it would have at least 2 or 3 pci slots11:11
Luria_me too11:11
Luria_i wish :-)11:11
Luria_then i could have usb11:11
johnxthe mobo I used with my k6 in 1998 (1999?) had usb ports11:12
Luria_usb requires a pci transport11:12
Luria_the only pci i have is on the cpu card11:13
Luria_there arent any e/isa usb host cards11:13
Stskeepsjohnx: seems like 770 port will be a bit delayed since aladds burnt out his 770 :P11:13
johnxwell it needs pci or it needs to be on the northbridge or equiv11:13
johnxStskeeps, O_O11:13
johnxStskeeps, too much rebooting?11:13
johnxdid it white screen?11:14
Stskeepsjohnx: no, custom usb power circuit with the wrong pin11:14
johnxStskeeps, damn11:14
johnxI was worried about that but he told me he was an expert...so11:14
Luria_like i said, the only pci is on the daughtercard, but that doesnt help me much. maybe if i could find *any* docs for this machine or its components...11:14
Stskeepshehe, - the port will pick up again when my friend gets his 770 from some ebay guy :P11:14
Luria_maybe some of those header pins are a usb interface :-)11:15
Luria_but then it would show up in dmesg. and it doesnt. sigh.11:16
johnxLuria, you must have the only one of this computer in existence11:16
johnxgoogling for it just gives me one ebay auction that's already over :)11:17
Luria_that would be this machine :-)11:17
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Luria_neat looking, huh?11:18
johnxthough if it's airlink it's probably rebranded from or to something else...11:18
Stskeepsheh. Apple now claims rejections of additions to App Store is under the NDA11:18
Stskeepsi swear, i love my tablet more and more these days11:18
Luria_there's nothing too custom inside11:18
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Luria_btw, there isnt so much as a model or serial number on this thing11:19
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johnxLuria, woo! got to the old ebay auction11:19
johnxholy crap man! no wonder people are staring at you O_o11:19
Stskeepsurl? :P11:19
Luria_the keyboard cable is a phone handset rj-1111:20
johnxthat's the one11:20
Luria_ive seen rj-11 used before11:20
StskeepsLuria_: you should be wearing a military suit and pretend it's the nuclear launch machine..11:20
Luria_but not with an actual handset cord11:20
Luria_and not since the late 80s11:21
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johnxLuria, I know where you can get something that looks like a hazmat suit for cheap11:21
Luria_actually, im using it to find my tardis11:21
Stskeepswow, this is first time i actually saw my tablet say "Battery full"11:21
Luria_man, i need to make bitchx work in green on black11:22
Stskeepsirssi is probably easier11:22
Luria_Stskeeps, please unplug your charger to save energy.11:22
StskeepsLuria_: i'm going to see if i can make my tablet last 5 days in dublin without a recharge :P11:22
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Luria_hey, its been so long, i nearly apt-getted ircii11:23
Luria_i did grab gopher for shits and giggles11:23
Luria_most importantly, two serial ports11:23
Luria_maybe now i can fix those managed 3com switches i bought last week11:24
johnxLuria_, you win. I have *never* seen something with such an anachronistic mix of components11:25
Luria_yeah, the tft+phone cord does it11:25
Luria_i should take pics of the inside11:26
Luria_'cause it is weird11:26
johnxI was thinking ISA expansion and a color LCD monitor11:26
Luria_dunno, lots of people want isa11:26
floriangood morning11:27
johnxthe HP plug for testing or whatever probably explains a lot11:27
Luria_a friend of mine who does telecom installs looked at it and thought. wow, that's handy.11:27
johnxmornin' florian11:27
Stskeepsjohnx: btw thanks for your kml->gpx guide11:27
Luria_yeah, actually, thats how i found the auction11:27
Luria_i was looking for a hpib/gpib card for my oscope11:27
johnxStskeeps, oh, sure. :)11:27
Luria_fwiw, you can buy c2duo luggables with isa slots11:28
Luria_i had a cellphone photo request11:28
Luria_im gonna be flikred or fb'ed11:29
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johnxLuria_, enjoy your 15 minutes of fame :)11:30
johnxyou really need to work out an internal battery for it too11:30
thuxi wrote lines in /etc/fstab but diablo didn't mount anything when boot?11:33
Luria_yeah, i ducked out of the photo11:33
Luria_not the first to suggest abattery11:33
johnxLuria_, this needs to be photographed11:33
Luria_but im not lugging around a lead acid battery11:33
johnxthux, diablo probably doesn't pay attention to /etc/fstab11:34
johnxyou may need to add it to a script11:34
Luria_well, i have some old upses... no, must not think that way11:34
johnxmaybe himh or nicd11:34
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Luria_ill photo it and blog it, ill let you know11:36
Luria_but yeah, this might be a one off machine11:36
johnxI mean *you* need to be in the photo11:37
Luria_oh god no11:37
johnxno fun if it's just a computer sitting in a coffee shop :P11:37
Luria_true enough11:37
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Luria_only a couple of people left in the cafe, nary a camera in sight11:37
johnxget one of them to take a pic with your cell phone?11:38
Luria_my cellphone is a t68i11:38
johnxsay your friends on the space shuttle demand proof that mission control is no in a coffee shop :P11:38
Luria_so no11:38
johnxmissed opportunities11:38
Luria_well, i do have a ham license...11:39
Luria_no sts, but iss is possible11:39
Luria_no soundcard tho11:40
Luria_you know, when i saw isa, i kinda had bad flashbacks11:40
Luria_to change jumper, reboot11:40
johnxjust thinking about it is bringing me back11:40
Luria_rinse repeat11:40
* johnx shivers at the thought of isa-pnp11:40
Luria_this 3c509 is a champ11:41
Luria_still working 10+ years later11:41
Luria_and when i told debian installer to look for it, it auto configured just fine11:41
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Luria_thing is, the card didnt quite fit, so i had to take off the backpanel11:42
Luria_so you can kinda see into the machine and watch the green blinky light11:42
Luria_remember squeezing as many things as possible on irq 3/4/5/7?11:43
Luria_yeah, i tried to forget too.11:43
johnxremember the things that demanded a certain IRQ?11:44
Luria_sigh, ctrl+alt+f1/2 is now my alt tab11:44
johnxyou need screen11:44
Luria_yeah, good point, cause ratpoison wont do anything for me right now11:44
johnxhmm...airlink got swallowed by sierra in 200711:45
johnxnot much on wikipedia about them prior to that11:45
Luria_well, i guess my email to them will be pointless11:45
Luria_or rather my plan to email them11:45
Stskeepsmaybe some stuff on newsgroups?11:45
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johnxStskeeps, good idea11:46
Luria_was thinking about that today11:47
johnxLuria_, so it probably wasn't originally sold with the hpib card in itI'm thinking11:47
Luria_can anyone recommend a good group?11:47
Luria_johnx im certain not11:47
StskeepsLuria_: i'd just search on google groups11:47
Stskeepsit has the dejanews archive so11:47
Luria_because the gpib card doesnt fit without removing the bracket around the port and screwing it back over the port once installed11:48
Luria_Stskeeps - tried that already11:48
Luria_i am impressed by how well google works in elinks11:49
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Luria_even gmail works in html mode11:50
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johnxthe saddest part is that your luggable is only 3lbs heavier than my notebook11:51
Luria_thats a 1.2eeepc difference11:52
johnxmine doesn't have a handle though11:52
Luria_squirelmail works too.11:52
Luria_or a phone cord11:52
Luria_or a 1.44mb floppy (maybe)11:53
Stskeeps366mhz.. that's about as powerful as the tablets :P11:53
Luria_less so, i dont have dsps11:54
RST38hjohnx: well, change the notebook :)11:54
johnxRST38h, I did. I bought an N800 and use that instead11:54
Luria_i could maybe throw a beagleboard in this thing11:55
Luria_were it not for the tft11:55
johnxLuria, you could throw like 10 beagleboards in that thing11:55
Luria_thats a lot of beagles11:55
Luria_and $1500 :-)11:56
RST38hjohnx: you know, there are real, full featured notebooks under 2.5lb ;)11:57
RST38hAnd I do not mean eeek pc11:57
Luria_lifebooks are nice11:58
johnxRST38h, I'm eyeing the lenovo x200 but I don't have the cash for it right now11:59
RST38hjohnx: Toshiba R500 starts at $150011:59
johnxRST38h, x200 starts at $110011:59
RST38hno need to buy overpriced, shoddily designed laptop made under Chinese supervision12:00
RST38hjohnx: scratch overpriced =)12:00
johnxwhere do you think a toshiba is made?12:00
fredscratch shoddily designed.12:00
aquatixhey, the x200 is a lot nicer than anything toshiba makes :)12:00
fredunless they've hugely changed since the X61s12:01
johnxfred, they made it run cooler for longer and the x200 is widescreen with a full sized keyboard, but otherwise very similar :)12:01
fredthe X61s has full-sized keys, but not full-size keyboard :(as for runs longer?12:02
fredwith the extended life battery, my X61s runs under linux for 18 hours while using 3G :S12:02
freddon't need longer :p12:02
fredthough that is with the non-default low voltage processor option12:03
RST38hfred: do not scratch shoddily design. I am writing this from a corporate T61 and it sucks12:03
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RST38haquatix: it looks like it has been designed in ussr12:03
RST38hand produce din china12:03
johnxRST38h, that sounds accurate. :)12:04
fredso you're saying because the T-series sucks, the X must as well :p12:04
Luria_x series are great12:04
Luria_i wish i had an x30012:04
aquatixRST38h: well, things designed by the ussr at least tended to function for quite a while12:04 i could have xorg (j/k)12:04
johnxfred, the x200s isn't out yet. (or is it out by now? I don't remember)12:04
aquatixbesides, i like the thinkpad design12:04
aquatixit's timeless12:04
Luria_aquatix, not the same without the ibm badge, tho12:05
fredsay I got a Toshiba P300-16T and didn't like it, would it then be fair for me to say that the R500 must be shoddily designed?12:05
aquatixLuria_: true12:05
fredadmittedly, the tecra 520CDT I had lasted for over 6 years, but thinkpads tend to be similar12:06
RST38haquatix: if you used them rarely enough12:06
RST38hfred: all ibms/lenovos are designed similarly12:06
Luria_lenovo thinkpads, yes. not their badideapad line.12:06
johnxhey, I have a toshiba P4 laptop that weighs 9lbs. I guess that means all toshibas are heavy and have crappy hinges and tend to overheat12:07
RST38hfred: Toshiba actually changes design over time and with different series12:07
fredexcept with different standards for portability and ruggidity... so by shoddy design do you mean purely visual?12:07
aquatixjohnx: exactly!12:07
RST38hfred: Ibm/Lenovo is still the same crappy designed as it was 10 years ago12:07
johnxRST38h, you're tired of the USSR design. I'm tired of the hip Japanese manufacturers trying to be as cool as Apple.12:07
fredah, so you just mean looks12:08
Luria_apple is cool?12:08
johnxLuria_, here? yes.12:08
Luria_no one asks to take cellphone pics of apples :-p12:08
* fred sticks with his lightweight laptop with a powerful processor, lots of ram, built in 3G modem, small form factor, and stupidly good battery life, with visual design based on a bento box, which he happens to like12:08
RST38hfred: By shoddy design I mean boxy, heavy, lots of weird orifices, bleak display, buttons that do not do anything useful, small arrow buttons, bad use of surface space12:08
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RST38hfred: Should I continue?12:09
* Luria_ likes panasonics12:09
RST38hjohnx: Toshiba Portege has been around long before Apple Air12:09
fredboxy, heavy: T-series - weird orifices - whut?, bleak display: X series have different displays - buttons - huh? small arros buttons: mine are full size, bad use of surface space:clarify; I don't see that applying to the X series12:09
RST38hjohnx: So, it is NOT trying to compete with Apple. Apple is trying to compete with it12:09
aquatixfred: what box do you have?12:10
fredX61s with some upgrades.12:10
aquatixah :)12:10
* aquatix loves the x61 and x61s12:10
RST38hfred: Weird orifices - take T4x and look at a hole between CD drive and the casing12:10
fredI thought you said your complaints were consistent between series?12:10
Luria_also having a wacom tablet in a laptop is just... neat.12:10
johnxRST38h, I didn't say the air. I said the apple "coolness." and yes, in the eyes of consumers it has to compete with Apple's image. I'm tired of the pretty designs at the cost of usability and durability12:10
RST38hfred: I will find holes in your X61 as well12:11
johnxRST38h, yes, that's where you plug things in12:11
fredif you want me to comment on them, make sure you look at the X61s, not the X6112:11
RST38hjohnx: One look at Toshiba's website shows that you are wrong12:11
fred(slightly smaller, lighter, and lower power than the X61)12:11
Luria_johnx, come on, sony has been making crappy vaios since apple was making black laptops12:11
RST38hjohnx: What things would I plug into a triangular hole 3-5mm at its widest?12:11
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Luria_(and not glossy black)12:12
RST38hjohnx: Is it what IBM engineers think a penis looks like?12:12
johnxRST38h, let's not talk about your personal life here...12:12
Luria_how did we get there from here?12:12
johnxanyways, nice arguing with everyone. need to go make dinner12:12
RST38hLuria: johnx suggested that the hole found in T41x above CD drive is for plugging something12:13
freda photo would be helpful12:13
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RST38hLuria: It is just a hole though, mistake in the design12:13
RST38ha moment12:13
Luria_maybe its for chinese penises? think globally.12:14
Luria_sheesh. talk about cultural insensitivty.12:14
Luria_insensitivity, even12:14
RST38hHere, look:
RST38hLuria: has been there before lenovo afaik12:14
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Luria_umm. i cant look at pictures right now.12:14
Luria_my computer doesnt do that12:15
RST38hat least you have got ip connection12:15
Luria_(scroll back for the ebay link)12:15
Luria_yeah, over my 3c509!12:15
Luria_when i get home, ill check the link from my xchat log12:16
Luria_elinks needs a jpg->ansi art plug in12:16
Luria_though i bet someone has done that12:16
Luria_see, there ya go12:17
Luria_i guess thats kinda rule 34 at work12:17
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Luria_i guess that ended that12:20
Luria_maybe i'll go gopher or something12:23
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aquatixLuria_: why are you using elinks btw? why not links or some other more recent browser?12:27
Luria_habit i guess12:29
Luria_good point tho12:29
aquatixlinks2 maybe12:30
aquatixi'm not sure which one is the nicest12:30
Luria_yeah, actually i was just away aptgetting both links and links212:30
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Luria_well, aptituding12:30
aquatixghehehe, someone suggests firefox in aalib12:31
Luria_elinks is nicer than links12:31
Luria_on to links212:32
Luria_aquatix - lol12:32
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taplaxflash player with aalib would be nice :)12:34
Luria_oh god12:35
Luria_losing flash is one of the few benefits here12:35
aquatixfor playing flv a movie player with ascii art plugin makes more sense12:35
aquatixLuria_: :)12:35
aquatixthere's a flashblock plugin etc for firefox, for example ;)12:35
Luria_and one for my n810, thanx gawd.12:35
* aquatix loves to combine that extension with adblock12:36
aquatixoh, i just disable flash on my n81012:36
aquatixsimple config option12:36
aquatixi need an adblocker though12:36
Luria_meh, i like adblock+flashblock on my n81012:36
aquatixanyone a suggestion?12:36
aquatixah :)12:36
Luria_well, abp12:36
Luria_there ya go12:36
Luria_sometimes, you do need flash... rarely, but yeah12:37
aquatixif i do, i enable the plugin12:37
aquatixtwo clicks12:37
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aquatixah, 3 clicks, but even so12:38
* aquatix installs abp12:38
aquatix is the latest?12:39
Luria_dunno, got mine from a repo12:40
Luria_but that sounds right12:40
aquatixah, it has a nice  install link12:40
aquatixsounds like it's the one12:40
* aquatix installs12:40
* Luria_ twiddles his thumbs12:41
Luria_maybe ill anon ftp to wustl for old time's sake12:41
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Luria_oh wow. it's gone.12:42
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benno2hi, when I download the official nokia OS image (eg using the windows flasher)  is this diablo ?12:48
X-Fadebenno2: Yes.12:49
benno2if I want to develop for that platform is it ok12:49
Luria_hopefully :-)12:49
benno2X-Fade: thanks12:49
Luria_no, diablo is free as in china12:49
benno2so basically diablo is still OS2008 ?12:50
RST38hWhatever this notation may mean12:50
X-Fadebenno2: yes, it is Maemo4.1. Just a point release.12:50
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X-FadeNext big change will be Maemo 5, codenamed Fremantle.12:51
benno2X-Fade: thanks. but can I use a chinook sdk to cook binaries (user space) and run them on diablo ?12:51
X-Fadebenno2: For the most part yes.12:51
X-FadeBut you should just dist-upgrade your sdk.12:51
benno2X-Fade: ah thanks, so just apt-get dist-upgrade will update everything to the latest version ?12:52
X-FadeThat is the idea ;)12:52
benno2X-Fade: thanks. so basically if i dist-upgrade my chinook sdk and then flash the latest nokia image on my n800 it should work fine ?12:53
X-Fadebenno2: chinook and diablo are basically compatible.12:54
aquatixwhy would you first dist-upgrade chinook?12:54
aquatixjust make a backup before flashing12:54
X-Fadeaquatix: sdk ;)12:54
aquatixoh wait, sorry12:54
aquatixjust read it indeed12:54
Luria_ok, 6am12:56
Luria_time to shutdown now12:56
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aquatixeh, wince?13:03
inzI would guess that is just one of BitchX's random quit messages13:05
aquatixhope so ;)13:09
wizanot much updates in the repository resently13:11
wizacanola development seems to be dead13:11
wizaand modest's as well13:11
X-Fadewiza: Because you look in the wrong repos :)13:12
wizaso what repos I should have13:12
X-FadeCanola is in extras. All updates happen there.13:12
wizaI only have 3 nokia ones and maemo Extras13:12
wizadistribution line I have "chinook diablo"13:13
* aquatix just got a lot of libedl* updates13:13
wizaw/o quotes13:13
aquatixnow canola2 is dead :)13:13
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X-FadeCanola is announced to be opensourced soon.13:14
aquatixanyone knows when canola2 gets a new release?13:14
X-Fadeaquatix: You should have been at the summit ;)13:14
aquatixtoo bad i didn't have the time13:15
aquatixnext time i'll try to be there13:15
crashanddie_MARDI COME HERE13:15
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Luriawince, wtf?13:49
lardmanderf: finished the init_data transfer stuff, will have a go at compilation at lunch time13:49
Luriabitchx is wierd13:49
derflardman: Hooray.13:56
aquatixhey Luria :)13:57
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, did we actually get server upgrades?13:57
lardmanderf: don't get your hopes up yet, that's the easy bit ;)13:57
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Yes, but dns needs to be switched still.13:58
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: So, no.. The slowness you see now is not the new cluster ;)13:58
Luriajust made it home, now i sleep13:59
lardmanGoogle should give a warning that a page in its results has a Java applet on it13:59
aquatixLuria: sleep well14:00
aquatixlardman: hm, now there's an idea14:00
Luriathanks, i started torrents to make sure i enjoy waking up14:00
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lardmanDoes Till Harbaum come on irc at all?14:08
* lardman needs a name<->nick lookup table14:08
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lardmanGeneralAntilles ping14:42
GAN800lardman, pong14:43
lardmanI was just reading the tail end of the First Community Issue thread14:43
lardmanHaving completely missed it in real time14:44
lardmanI was away, I had another conference that week too14:44
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RST38hWiFi connection on n810 just broke. Here goes Modest...14:57
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RST38hGAN: Any updates on that redesign?15:08
GAN800RST38h, not really, scheduling an IRC meeting on the content cleanup sometime next week.15:10
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GAN800Apparently there wasn't enough time for real progress at the summit.15:10
GAN800Though Quim did ask the INdT guys to work on a design.15:10
JaffaThat reminds me of something I left off my -community post: in the council presentation we agreed it was the council's role to help push and find developers - and, more importnalty, freedback on things like dneary's design email15:12
JaffaIf no-one else says anything, we should.15:12
GAN800RST38h, the general feeling is that we should focus on getting the content into shape before we worry about layout and design.15:12
RST38hpush and find developers for what?15:12
Jaffa"things like dneary's design email"15:13
dnearyGAN800: I'm going to insist that INdT designs are one possibility, rather than the be-all and end-all15:13
RST38hGAN: It may be wrong15:13
RST38hGAN: 'cause a lot of content that is currently there has to be culled and put away rather than added to15:13
dnearyGAN800: So I'm certainly open to unpaid community members coming in & saying "I can do better"15:13
GAN800dneary, you saw Bundyo's design, right?15:13
* RST38h is scared to think what Bundyo's design will do to MicroB15:14
GAN800RST38h, that's why it's a content 'cleanup'. ;)15:14
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GAN800RST38h, it's not that bad, but I'm definitely not letting it through with all that superfluous js.15:15
JaffaThe look seems less important than coming up with the right use cases (although dneary's probably got a fairly close set, IMHO). And, until the use cases & information architecture are decided on, designs are - at best - pretty screenshots of what might happen. A true design has to be based on the use cases & information layout, not the other way round15:15
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RST38hJaffa: Have you seen design I have done?15:21
JaffaRST38h: no I've only seen bundyo's at the summit at the maemo booth at osim, I think15:21
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RST38hJaffa: The page contains layout elements for all the pages15:22
RST38hJaffa: No JavaScript. Very light CSS. Perfectly resizable.15:23
johnxRST38h, css instead of tables now?15:23
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RST38hjohnx: No. Tables work.15:25
RST38hCSS only works sometimes, especially on mobile devices15:25
Mekbut CSS can be made to scale better to smaller resolutions...15:27
GAN800Tables are entirely unacceptable for layout.15:27
MangoFusioncss works rather nicely on iphone ;)15:27
MangoFusiontables are great when you have data which needs to be displayed15:28
MangoFusionmaybe a calendar15:28
MangoFusiondepends what you are targeting as always :)15:29
RST38hWell, you want to use CSS - replace tables with CSS15:29
RST38hIt will work nicely on iPhone but will most likely break on Opera and who knows how it is gonna work on S60 browser...15:30
johnxcss seems to work fine on opera mobile15:30
Italodancehi johnx15:30
johnxhi Italodance15:31
Italodancei found wizback on my n800,what is it?15:31
RST38hOn E70 (S60e3, WebKit-based browser) I am getting constant problems with heavy css sites15:31
Italodancejust found it by xterm15:31
RST38hOn N810, it seems to work unless you select fit to width15:31
GeneralAntillesDon't select fit width to view.15:32
GeneralAntillesThat's MicroB's "broken-mode"15:32
JaffaAnd is apparently going15:32
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johnxthe zoom to fit contents mode on the iphone looks like a much better idea15:33
Italodancejohnx do u know what is it>?15:33
johnxItalodance, I really don't know15:34
johnxItalodance, google it15:34
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Italodancejohnx the screen will go to a loading...15:34
Italodancetry it by xterm15:34
Italodancetype wizback15:34
johnxItalodance, I can't right now.15:34
Italodancethere is no info on google15:35
GeneralAntillesNokia-N800-23-14:~# apt-cache search wizback15:35
GeneralAntilleswizback - Background window for startup wizards controlled from init scripts via dbus-send15:35
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Italodancetnx mate15:37
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Jaffalo etrunko15:43
etrunkoJaffa: hey dude15:43
etrunkoJaffa: what do you think about start writing on the council wiki page?15:44
RST38hHey, leave fit-width-to-view alone please =)15:44
RST38hHowever broken, it is still useful on many sites. And it handles tables just fine15:44
etrunkoJaffa: I have some ideas that i'll drop in the discussion page.15:44
Jaffaetrunko: cool; I'm sure GAN800'll be monitoring that page already (must tick the 'watch' option)15:45
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GeneralAntilles ;)15:45
GeneralAntillesDon't know if you can actually edit yet, though.15:45
GeneralAntillesIt wasn't working for me earlier.15:46
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biiterumm.. hello15:49
johnxhi biiter15:49
biiterim searching for small fully programmable device with wifi and n8x0 seems quite satisfactory.. but i'm unnable to find info about custom flashers15:51
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johnxcustom flashers?15:51
crashanddie(Jyrchi) TuxOtaku: Around here Jaffa is a drink15:53
crashanddie(Jyrchi) I think Jaffa usually refers to orange15:53
infobot:), GeneralAntilles15:53
biiterwell, i would like to run something different than maemo / os200X15:53
infobotflashing is probably
crashanddiehe's alive again :)15:53
infobotit has been said that flasher is
crashanddieinfobot, feel any better?15:53
crashanddieinfobot, good bot15:54
infobotcrashanddie: aw, gee15:54
johnxbiiter, sure you can do that. What are you planning to run?15:54
GeneralAntillesbiiter, that has nothing to do with the flasher.15:54
johnxif you're planning to run something else it's probably best to run it from an sd card15:54
Jaffacrashanddie: it is indeed an orange reference15:54
johnxit's easier to debug and mess with that way15:54
biitercustom linux build15:55
biiterare there any docs about it?15:55
johnxbiiter, botting from sd?15:55
infobotjohnx meant: biiter, bootting from sd?15:56
crashanddieJaffa, that's an old website ;)15:56
johnxbiiter, lots of good stuff on wiki.maemo.org15:56
biiteri don't have the device, yet..15:57
johnxbiiter, and there's already a debian installer and a distro based on openembedded called mamona15:57
johnxif you want to hack, this is probably the device for you :)15:57
biiteri want to be shure that it's hackable as I hope15:58
crashanddiebiiter, do you want mobility?15:58
Jaffacrashanddie: indeed.15:58
glass_more hackable than most other devices15:58
biitergood good :)15:58
johnxearlier this month I would have said no, but Nokia just open sourced a lot of important stuff, like the wifi drivers15:58
biiterdoes wifi support monitor mode?15:59
johnxnot well with the closed source driver16:00
johnxit might be lots better or at least doable with the open source one16:00
GeneralAntillesJaffa, etrunko, lardman|lunch, do you guys want to put together a post-Summit blog entry?16:01
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etrunkoGeneralAntilles: absolutely... I was talking to Tim about that the other day16:03
JaffaShould link to an online version of ours slides and other stuff16:03
etrunkoJaffa: uploading!16:03
Jaffaetrunko: can you put the slides we used online somewhere, or send them to me?16:03
Jaffaetrunko: perfick :)16:03
etrunkoJaffa: i can host on my googlepages space16:03
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* Jaffa sees slideshare being used lots at the moment, by qgil etc - not sure the benefits of it tho16:04
biiterhmm..hmm :/ ... and difference between n800 and n810? .. i didn't found any good reviews (non commercial) on n810.. specially about hardware design.. keyboard etc.. which one is more suitable?16:05
Mekmore suitable for what?16:05
GeneralAntillesWell, you can only get the N800 used now.16:05
GeneralAntillesSo no warranty.16:05
GeneralAntillesThat's a disadvantage.16:06
GeneralAntillesN800 == cheaper, way more storage16:06
johnxbiiter, if you're hacking your own linux distro up from scratch you might find a keyboard really useful16:06
biitercrashanddie: small powerfull mobility and small cost.. no music or webcam.. don't need that16:06
Jaffabitter: N810 has fewer storage options, but built-in 2GB card; built-in GPS; built-in keyboard; transflective screen. N800 has more storage options; cheaper; larger (front-facing speakers)16:06
GeneralAntillesN810 == more expensive, less storage, but hardware keyboard, gps, and transflective display.16:06
crashanddieIf you're going to do a lot of hacking, you'll probably use SSH/usb keyboard anyway so...16:07
johnxcrashanddie, there are lots of times when I was stuck since I didn't have usb keyboard or ssh enabled16:08
biiteri don't like that keyboard mechanic part :[ .. more damagable16:08
biiterpfrrr... hard to decide16:08
johnxbiiter, a couple people have had problems with it. That is a downside I guess16:08
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johnxbiiter, from my experience putting debian on my n800, I'd really like to have a built-in keyboard16:09
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biitermore and more dilemmatic :)16:12
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johnxbiiter, look at the number of good, usable onscreen keyboards that are available outside of Nokia's linux distro16:13
etrunkoGeneralAntilles, Jaffa, lardman|lunch: mail sent16:14
johnxhere's a hint: it's not a great situation16:14
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GeneralAntilles"His Lordship and Imperial Highness Emperor Field Marshal Antilles"16:16
* GeneralAntilles shakes his head.16:16
X-Fadelol, he saw the slides ;)16:17
biiterwell.. thats really handy and usable.. and i don't need more than 8GB of storage.. and transreflective display is cool.. ok n810 is the choice, thx a lot :)16:17
etrunkoGeneralAntilles: we spent quite a few time thinking of the best way to say it16:17
* GeneralAntilles waits patiently for baloo to upload the video so he can begin the eviscerations.16:17
etrunkoGeneralAntilles: nonono16:17
Jaffaetrunko gets mostly eviscerated - first 10 mins timsamoff, lardman and I were doing blind... etrunko was just blind drunk ;-)16:18
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johnxbiiter, so will this be based on an existing distro or will this be "from scratch"16:18
etrunkoJaffa: :@16:18
biiterjohnx from scratch16:19
johnxbiiter, quite ambitious :)16:19
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biiterjohnx: i like to control thigs :)16:21
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johnxbiiter, fair enough. You have quite a road ahead of you. So are you going to cross compile or compile everything native on the device?16:22
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biiterif crosscompile will not make any faults, i don't see any advantage of compilling it on device16:26
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johnxwith lots of applications, it can be difficult to get them to build in a cross-compiling environment16:27
johnxespecially big apps with complicated build systems16:27
GeneralAntillesLess toolchain induced stupidity.16:27
johnxyou might want to look at openembedded build system or maybe scratchbox16:27
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biitervery nice :) thx16:29
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Jaffasbox2 better than scratchbox - but still a little braindead (mostly in the documentation and ease-of-use categories)16:32
timelessthose categories can be fixed by users16:32
johnxJaffa, does apt-get work under it properly?16:32
* timeless has apt-get working on solaris...16:32
* johnx used to use it on a Mac...but never had success with it under sb216:33
biiterok, thx for help.. i'm going to nokia shop to check it out :)16:34
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johnxbiiter, good plan. make sure you can live with the keyboard.16:34
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aquatixRST38h: they have an awesome song in the player on that shot btw16:40
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johnxStskeeps, could you make usbnet-emergency-telnetd recommended instead of required?16:44
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lardmanhmm, /me could really do with on-device routing for tomorrow16:46
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melmothlardman: works for in city bicycle road :)16:49
lardmanyeah, might give it a go :)16:49
lardmandoes it handle one-way streets though?16:50
melmothas long as openstreetmap report them, yes.16:50
melmothbut i realised, some of them are not reported.16:50
melmothgot lost during my firts test16:50
lardmanah, you're Pierre?16:50
melmoththat's me. hello :)16:50
lardmancool, hard to link names to nicks :)16:51
lardmanI'm Simon16:51
melmothsame here.16:51
melmothdid you had the opportunity to try out the navit thingy ?16:52
melmothit really looks cool16:52
lardmanI've tried it before but it didn't work (as in operate), not sure what the issue was16:53
lardmancertainly worth doing some hacking on, but I still think a maemo-mapper backend will be similar (as in code/logic/etc) so hopefully they should complement one another16:53
GAN800Seems like some sort of plugin system for Maemo Mapper would be nice16:55
GAN800So you don't have to work around its raster engine and unnecessarily increase resource usage.16:56
lardmanRendering plugin you mean?16:56
lardmanIt will be interesting to see how much cpu the rendering requires16:57
derfIt's a little bit more pervasive than that.16:57
GAN800Maemo Mapper could probably use the rewriting anyway. ;)16:57
lardmanderf: how so?16:57
derfTell gnuite to get on it.16:57
lardmanlol, his presentation was about not having to re-write it! :)16:57
derfIn the sense that it's not just rendering but tile loading, caching, coordinate systems, transforms...16:58
lardmanderf: well that's under the rendering-engine in my book anyway, even if it's not exactly rendering16:58
lardmanthings like the ability to use 3D data would be cool16:59
derflardman: Sure, but that's also almost the entire code base.16:59
lardmanwell there's the ui stuff too ;)16:59
derfThat part is not actually that big.16:59
lardmanbut yes I agree, it would be a complete re-write16:59
lcukheh @ mariuses mail16:59
lcuko/ hi folks btw17:00
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GAN800Having separate programs for different map types is a bad plan.17:00
* lcuk runs away again17:00
derfGAN800: I agree, but having one program with both types is still a lot of work.17:00
GAN800Users shouldn't need to care what type of maps they're using.17:00
derfBut hey, gnuite should have his 20% time, so he's got no excuses.17:00
GAN800derf, true enough17:01
GAN800We need more tasers if not.17:01
lardmanthe other problem is that these vector mapping systems are seemingly rather tightly bound to their vector formats, I don't know how easy to would be to add support for others (e.g. shuttle radar topography data)17:01
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Jaffalcuk: indeed. Always good to see Nokians communicating in the open, though.17:03
riothmm.. my chinook-mediaplayer broke :/ it just tells me "Can't proceed, try again later" when i try to access the library :(17:03
melmoth20% time.. He is working at google ?17:04
derfHe is now, anyway.17:04
lardmanI wonder if Nokia would tell us the Navteq file format...? :)17:04
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derfI'm pretty sure Navteq might have something to say about that.17:04
lardmanNokia own them don't they?17:05
derfNo idea.17:05
Jaffalardman: If the rendering engine there *is* Java - and the stack of .class files in .zips suggests it is - jad may do a good job of telling us the format ;-)17:05
lardmanyeah they do17:05
derfJaffa: Assuming the classes haven't been obfuscated.17:05
lardmanJaffa: oh right, you mean the maps app is java?17:05
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derfThat's pretty common practice these days.17:05
* Jaffa has been looking for a cheap Navicore 2007 licence, though - since someone on ITT said they got one for $3017:06
lardman$30 by changing their MAC...?17:06
riotoh, wow.. the whole OS seems b0rked..17:07
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GAN800Wrong logo17:07
GAN800Somebody go stab them in the eye.17:07
keesjsill , jad rulez17:08
GAN800riot, Diablo time.17:08
riotGAN800: i'd say so :/17:08
riothow do i backup my wlan settings? I don't wanna loose the dozens of passwords :17:08
Jaffalardman: there's /usr/libexec/navicore-navigator which is about 2MB and handles the DRM and general app startup and, AFAICT, the main GUI. But there's also a load of stuff in some other dir containing class files. Not as much interesting stuff in terms of names as I'd hoped, though17:08
Jaffalardman: changing the MAC's apparently less useful since they now check the GPS time against the licence time.17:09
lardmanah ok17:09
JaffaIf there's any licence discrepancy at start-up, the maps are corrupted and have to be redownloaded, too.17:09
derfThis is why I don't use closed-source software.17:09
riotwell, i can still use mplayer to play music :D17:10
riotmplayer, ftw.17:10
Jaffaderf: I wasn't aware of a method of really obfuscating a class file really well. The zips aren't encoded either, and the class files seem to be valid (but I haven't looked into it in too much detail)17:10
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lardmanhmm, apparently Northampton lacks OSM data17:10
lardmangood thing I wasn't planning on navigating there then17:11
derfJaffa: My favorite is replacing all the symbol names with various combinations of l1l1lll11.17:11
X-Fadelardman: Do some maping while you are there ;)17:11
lardmanX-Fade: hmm, you been there before, no wonder there are no maps ;)17:11
lardmanprobably an osm mapping black hole, people go in and never come out17:12
X-FadeI can honestly say that I have not been there yet ;)17:12
Jaffaderf: so leave debug symbols in, but corrupt them. Nasty. I think jad has an option to create new symbols anyway - and it does symbol generation for classes without debug info17:12
derfJaffa: Not debug symbols, but the actual class API.17:13
derfBreaks any complicated reflection, but you probably shouldn't be using that anyway.17:13
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Jaffaderf: heh17:18
derfBut most websites and such just use something like
GAN800Anybody happen to meet mutiny32 in person at the Summit?17:19
lardmanneed a picture17:20
GAN800Too bad17:20
GAN800I was interested to know if he was as hilariously idiotic in person as he is online.17:20
lardmanperhaps everyone with a maemo t-shirt with their name on the front and back in large letters :)17:20
GAN800Kyle Jones17:20
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RST38hBTW was darius at the summit? =)17:24
RST38hOr is he undergoing treatment at the moment?17:24
lophytehey all, anyone know of an RSS reader app for OS2008 that'll download full articles for offline reading?17:24
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X-Fadelophyte: I guess that really depends on your feeds. If they don't offer full content, you are out of luck?17:25
lardmanlophyte: patch the Nokia one17:25
lophyteX-Fade: most RSS feeds I've seen at least have a link to the full article... that's kinda what I was getting at17:26
RST38hlophyte: Google Reader in iPhone mode17:26
RST38hWorks perfectly17:26
X-Fadelophyte: But that would be scraping ;)17:26
lophyteRST38h: cool I'll give it a shot17:26
RST38hwait, it won't download full articles either17:26
lophyteit'd just be nice to have articles to read on the subway17:27
johnxfind RSS feeds with full content17:27
johnxor script using wget?17:29
lcukjaffa, all i have seen recently is openness and willingness to communicate with the community :) from what i gather this is different to the past17:31
lophyteperhaps I'll have to whip together a python script that does it17:31
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lophytewith minidom+urllib17:32
konttoriX-Fade: cool. thanks for the tip!17:33
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lcukjaffa - something  that struck me from the demo you gave on the transcoding and from experiences with liqbase console writing - if you can find a way to limit the output of the progress it runs even faster (maybe updating every 200 or so frames or ocuple of seconds vs current fractions of a second refresh17:33
lardmanconsole writing is always slow17:34
X-Fadekonttori: Huh? :)17:34
lcukyer exactly17:34
konttorithe pyqt17:34
lardmanlcuk: but it's good to see what's going on ;)17:34
konttorisorry for not including the reason on the thanks17:34
derfgnome-terminal is actually reasonably fast now.17:35
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X-FadeAh, yeah. I say many helpful things in a day :P17:35
derfWhich doesn't help maemo, but all the same.17:35
lardmanyeah, but adding a printf into a loop will slow it down dramatically17:35
lcuklardman, absolutely but the  threshhold between helpful and OTT slowing down is quite large17:35
lcukits even worse if you are running through an ssh type session17:36
lcukthats probably where i notice it the most, but know it occurs even locally17:36
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* lcuk is gonna be sorting out console logging soon :)17:37
derflardman: I had gnome-terminal dump 300,000 lines of output in 6 or 7 seconds. It's reasonably fast.17:37
lcukthe other problem i keep encountering is the buffer scrollback length ;)  after doing just one or two things without adjusting the scrollback buffer on each install i lose the head17:38
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* lcuk just realised how my wordcount is so high17:39
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lcukcrap bbl17:39
RST38hthe real question is how you manage to write this much on an n81017:40
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GeneralAntillesSeriously, how can you NOT realize you can compile on-device?17:40
Jaffalcuk: indeed, I should pass the -quiet option to mencoder when in the GUI; although you need the output to know where to draw the progress bar ;-)17:41
lardmanderf: true17:41
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RST38hwell, you can't compile on a symbian phone17:49
RST38hso why would you be able to compile on a tablet produced by the same company? =)17:49
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johnxwhy is anyone using other window managers besides sawfish?18:25
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RST38h'cause they are better?18:27
johnxhow can anything be better than resizing your windows from an interactive lisp section18:28
johnxI should probably start using emacs too...18:28
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RST38hEnjoy :)18:35
biitertoo bad.. n810 is not available in my country :[18:35
RST38hbiiter: just order form us, ask someone to bring it back18:35
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biiterthat is bad too.. i don't know someone :)18:38
johnxRST38h, I'm trying to figure out what the admin was thinking...18:40
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RST38hjohnx: two possibilities18:41
RST38hjohnx: 1. They inserted every single directory from the site into that file to prevent people from tracking changes in their point of view18:41
RST38hjohnx: 2. They inserted just a few sensitive directories [rest is the same]18:41
RST38hEither way, another confirmation that these are very sleazy bastards18:42
johnxwell yeah. all gov't is sleazy18:43
johnxbut this is just dumb18:43
johnxI expect them to hide this more cleverly18:43
RST38hthey do not care. nothing anyone can do to them.18:46
lardmancu chaps18:49
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johnx'later lardman18:49
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johnxRST38h, ok. I see why this is in there. Read the first line:
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biiterthose are honeypots18:56
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johnxbiiter, guess that makes sense18:58
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RST38hjohnx: ahhahahahahahahaaa :)19:00
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johnxRST38h, :P19:01
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* Jaffa wonders if an HSPA tablet'll be better able to cope with the vagaries of reception on the West Coast Mainline20:07
lcukjaffa, only if you can keep normal phone reception anyway20:08
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Jaffalcuk: more in terms of better handling TCP lag/disconnects20:09
lcukand jaffa, excellent on the -h :) im still gonna try it on the tablet soon20:09
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johnxJaffa, well they should have room for a huge antenna in there20:09
johnxI think individual apps will behave differently20:10
johnxpidgin for example copes really poorly with momentary loss of connectivity on the desktop20:10
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lcukwe should be able to use our tin-foil hats as plug in antennas20:10
troyhanyone know where e2fsprogs went (specifically for diablo)20:10
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Havijohnx: quit watching me through my tablet's webcam.20:10
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lcukjohnx, thats the same across the board isnt it - you have some apps written to expect loss, others are like eggshells20:11
johnxHavi, I'm not even watching the footage. just uploading straight to youtube :P20:11
johnxlcuk, yeah...I don't see a way for the OS to force them to behave20:12
johnxjust make it convenient for them to behave20:12
lcukwell tcp doesnt generally shout at loss of connection for a while20:12
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bakarati was enthousiastic about the n810 until i read it doesn't have gsm capability, which is bout the only thing missing20:13
Havijohnx: nooo, then everyone will see me dressed as Brittney Spears :(20:13
johnxlcuk, that's part of them problem pidgin has I think. the server has dropped you and pidgin doesn't realize until its extremely long timeout expires20:13
bakaratis there a phone/pda out there which has the same features as the n810 but also includes gsm?20:13
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bakarat(based on maemo i mean)20:13
johnxbakarat, not based on maemo20:14
lcukbakarat, dont see it as a problem for now, just connect it to your own bluetooth phone20:14
bakaratjohnx: based on linux then? :>20:14
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bakaratlcuk: well the whole idea is to lose my current phone... :>20:14
lcukthen the short answer is no, the longer one involves different devices with different OSes and capabilities20:15
johnxbakarat, maybe some of the MIDs have an HSPA modem, but no voice. The openmoko phone is based on linux. so is the htc g1 based on google's android20:15
Haviis it just me, or is the screen crooked?20:16
johnxtroyh, looks like it's in one of the standard repos20:16
bakaratjohnx: i was long considering buying a openmoko, but it isn't stable enough for everyday use apparantly and seems to suffer a few hardware problems (slow bus being the worst it seems)20:16
johnxHavi, yeah, noticed that too20:16
bakaratjohnx: added to which i can not test nor see in action an actual openmoko so i'd be buying blindly :>20:16
lcukand they added the text overlapping the scrollbar area20:16
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troyhjohnx: where? I can't find a .deb in the pool
johnxlcuk, I think the scrollbar is transparent20:17
bakaratjohnx: and the htc dream isn't out yet, nor can i find a release date/price for the EU atm (i could simply be incomprehensibly blind though :p)20:17
lcukis it kinetic20:17
lcukjohnx, yer its thin i can tell that - its just for identification20:17
johnxtroyh, well that's interesting20:17
Havibakarat: What's the HTC Dream?20:17
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johnxlcuk, not kinetic. just drag to scroll20:18
bakarato btw, seeing as maemo is based on debian for package management...can i simply install regular .deb packages? :>20:18
troyhjohnx: interesting or broken?20:18
bakaratHavi: the android-based phone20:18
HaviI know the G1 is going to be launched October 22, for US$17520:18
johnxHavi, htc dream = t-mobile g120:18
Haviright, right20:18
HaviSame thing, then20:18
HaviJust locked :(20:18
johnx$399 unlocked20:19
johnxbut with t-mo's 3G bands20:19
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bakaratwe don't even have t-mobile here hehe20:19
johnxnot bad considering the hardware20:19
HaviI already use T-Mobile, so meh20:19
Luriai thought it's tmobile hsdpa *band*20:19
bakarathmm i've read some (though i admit i haven't really digged all too deep) concerning stuff bout the g1 phone20:19
bakaratseems they seem to really drive at using google apps20:20
bakaratwhich i do _not_ use at all (consciously so)20:20
bakarati'm simply looking for a pda/phone platform which runs linux where i can simply you with like an (almost) regular computer :>20:20
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HaviWait a few years20:21
Havithen try again20:21
HaviYou want the future20:21
johnxbakarat, well that's the problem. that perfectly describes the openmoko...but linux's "phone tools" just aren't there yet20:21
bakaratjohnx: if it were only the software that wasn't ready with openmoko, i would probably buy it20:21
bakaratbut it does seem to have a number of hardware drawbacks which can not be solved by software fixes20:22
johnxhardware problems too?20:22
Luriaand the open moko's specs suck20:22
bakarata slow bus apparantly which well...slows down the whole show :>20:22
Havithe freerunner is tehbleh20:22
troyhjohnx: ahh, thanks! I'm still trying to figure out all of the repo structure.20:22
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HaviThe freerunner also has dev issues20:22
bakaratHavi: how's that?20:22
HaviHey, I don't like the UI we're working on anymore20:22
HaviLet's just ignore the phone and power saving features for now, and work on a new UI20:23
RST38hone enterprising Brit decided to see just how long it would take for the cops to show up after parading around in front of the cameras in an 8-foot-tall alien outfit. Spoiler: not very long.20:23
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bakaratbut i don't mind software-problems "too" much as they can be resolved20:23
RST38hWas it lcuk? =)20:23
johnxbakarat, the video bus? the n810 has a similar problem20:23
bakaratit's the hardware problems that keep me from buying it20:23
bakaratjohnx: not sure on that one actually20:23
bakaratwould have to look it up20:23
bakaratit's somewhere on the openmoko site, listed as "accepted shortcomings" :>20:24
Mekjohnx: but the n810 doesn't use the video bus for all sd-card access too I think...20:24
johnxMek, aaah...I remember now20:24
Mekand the fact that apparently sd-card and gps interfere with each other is also not nice :)20:24
LuriaRST38h, did he get anally probed?20:24
johnxMek, ok, that's really icky20:24
RST38hLuria: good question. you will have to check the youtube video for that.20:24
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RST38hIdeally, HE would have to anally probe a few coppers before being subdued20:25
bakaratbtw i may have missed the answer to a question i asked a few minutes ago -> can you install regular .deb packages (straight out of debian repos) on maemo?20:25
Havimight be a video bus problem20:25
Havioh, >_>20:25
RST38hbakarat: No.20:25
RST38hbakarat: Next question?20:25
johnxi like the voice mail icon being a tape...some kids will never actually see a tape casette and will get to wonder what the voice mail icon is supposed to be their whole lives...20:25
Havijohnx: they can't play mpeg4 @ 320x240 20fps :(20:25
Sargun_Screenare we getting another tablet soon?20:25
bakaratRST38h: how many "regular" apps (open ssh server, thunderbird, firefox...) are available for maemo?20:26
johnxSargun_Screen, every time someone asks it gets delayed :(20:26
bakaratand how big is the difference with "regular" .deb's?20:26
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Mekbakarat: recompiling source packages for maemo is in most cases trivial; binary packages just don't work20:26
Sargun_ScreenRST38h: bakarat could install an arm deb, couldn't he?20:26
HaviNow we have to wait an additional four weeks for the tablet.20:26
johnxSargun_Screen, now it won't be until sometime in mid-next year20:26
RST38hbakarat: go to Maemo Extras repo and count.20:26
bakarathehe :p20:26
RST38hSargun: He could but most of them would probably have library dependencies that could not be satisfied20:27
johnxbakarat, they're standard .debs aimed at a different distro20:27
Sargun_Screenjohnx: good, I work for apple... I'll have all my coworkers ask too! (just kidding)20:27
bakaratjohnx: Mek well that's good :p20:27
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bakaratnow just need a good hardware platform for it :|20:27
lcukRST38h, lcuk is me20:27
RST38hcommand line and console stuff works pretty well after recompilation20:27
RST38hlcuk: You have not been naughty, playing 8-feet alien in front of CCTV tonight? =)20:27
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johnxbakarat, nah. I gave up on maemo to a certain extent. I'm running debian on my n80020:28
lcukwell, now you mention it20:28
bakaratjohnx: how's that working out? :>20:28
Havijohnx: how's the power saving?20:28
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johnxbakarat, pretty well. could be worse. lack of hardware keyboard is my biggest problem20:28
bakaratjohnx: ah, the keyboard is new in n810?20:28
lcukjohnx, bluetooth?20:28
RST38hlcuk: if so, have you had a chance to anally probe any of the cops before they got you down? =)20:28
johnxHavi, thanks to Stskeeps being rather clever it's better, but not great20:28
bakarat(haven't looked at the nxxx series too much before like 5 minutes ago hehe)20:28
johnxbakarat, yup20:29
bakaratic :>20:29
Havijohnx: :(20:29
johnxlcuk, worked since January20:29
lcukexcellent then20:29
bakaratdamn, if only the 810 had gsm :'(20:29
bakaratah well :|20:29
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johnxHavi, suspend to RAM works though20:29
RST38hwhy do you need gsm?20:29
bakaratRST38h: call would be the obvious answer :|20:29
RST38hare you going to stick that thing to your ear?20:29
Sargun_Screenno, cdma/ev-do is way better20:29
RST38hwon't it look ridiculous?20:30
bakaratRST38h: it has bluetooth...20:30
lcukthey have announced HSDPA for the next gen models havent they ?20:30
RST38hso does your phone20:30
johnxSargun_Screen, if you don't travel outside the US...20:30
bakaratRST38h: and i imagine/hope a connector for wired headphones/mic as well? :>20:30
HaviRST38h: nothing is too ridiculous for me20:30
HaviRST38h: I was one of the lucky sidetalkers20:30
bakaratRST38h: ye but i'm looking to rid my phone in favor of a pda/phone thingy instead of just buying a second device ;)20:30
HaviN-GAGE FTW20:30
RST38hso just get yourself a really tiny phone (Samsung U100 or even Nokia E51) and use it20:30
RST38hHavi: NGage?20:30
Sargun_Screenjonner: i primarily stay in the US20:31
johnxSargun_Screen, lots of people here don't even have cdma networks in their countries20:31
bakaratwe don't!20:31
johnxSargun_Screen, including the person you told "cdma is better" :P20:31
bakaratpraise science! :|20:31
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Havisidetalking at it's finest20:31
Sargun_Screenjohnx: well, screw them!20:31
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bakaratgsm ftw! :|20:32
RST38hHavi: Yea, I heard of this... And the funny thing is, for all this humiliation you got the hardware identical to normal nokia phones20:32
johnxyeah, I'm a fan of gsm/hspa as well20:32
bakaratbtw, we are about the only country in the world (the only one i believe, but i could be wrong) where it is actually legally forbidden to combine contracts with phones etc :>20:32
HaviRST38h: of course20:32
Haviexcept the N-Gage totally had a well made dpad20:32
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bakarattook aaaaaages to get the iphone here and even now it's not really big here (i call that a win btw)20:33
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RST38hbakarat: Here it is not forbidden but stupid.20:33
RST38hso nobody does it20:33
HaviThe d-pad on the N-Gage is among the best, IMO20:33
HaviBut that's just my preference20:33
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bakarati rather have an affirmative "it is illegal" then a "i rather you didn't" attitude ;)20:33
RST38hThe d-pad - yes...20:33
glass_Havi: yeah.. i like it too20:34
RST38hbakarat: in fact, you can avoid doing it in the US as well20:34
RST38hbakarat: but most people agree for this toilet plunger to save money on their phone20:34
HaviSee? The N-Gage sucked, but at least we can say, it had a good d-pad20:34
bakaratRST38h: wot good is saving a few bucks on a phone if you are tied with a 2 year contract?20:34
bakaratwhich actually costs more then the damn phone ;)20:35
glass_Havi: it was good value for money s60 phone for a while.. more ram than 3650 too20:35
RST38hHavi: it was an otherwise pretty average S60 phone. Didn't suck so much, except for the side-talking fiasco20:35
Havibakarat: if you were already going to go with the carrier for two years20:35
bakaratHavi: true20:35
Havithen you save money :P20:35
RST38hbakarat: you are not saving much but a lot of people do not get it20:35
Haviglass_: too bad the library bombed20:35
bakaratwell i don't really go for phone contracts atm :>20:35
HaviI hate phone contracts20:36
bakarati charge up my phone with a minimal amount for emergency use20:36
nemoSay. This is not really channel relevant, but I have a Nokia brick that's been pissing me off.20:36
HaviI do pay as you go shit20:36
bakaratand do everything else either with someone elses phone or (preferably) over sip20:36
nemoIt replaced my old nokia brick with a newer model, and has a bunch of AT&T trash on it.  It seems to have less memory available for my apps than the old brick, so I'm blaming these extra apps I don't use20:36
RST38hnemo: What model of a brick?20:36
nemoAnyone know of programs to manipulate Nokia phones?20:36
nemoRST38h: lemme look it up20:36
RST38hoh, you affectionately call the power supply this name...20:37
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glass_nemo: you can uninstall the pre-installed .jars.. iirc20:37
bakaratoff for a bit now (i need food! :|)20:37
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RST38hnemo: You can hard-reset it20:37
nemoglass_: well. most of those I removed20:37
RST38hnemo: there is a key combination20:37
nemoglass_: but there's some other stuff on there. AT&T "mall"  "e-mail"20:37
nemomost of main menu20:37
nemowondering if there is like a dæmon sitting in background waiting for port SMS for notifications that will never arrive20:38
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glass_nemo: oh then. fw stuff..  dunno, i think reflashing those needs some special cable20:38
nemo'cause, yeah, seems I have literally half the old memory20:38
RST38hnemo: What model, again?20:39
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nemoRST38h: was staring at the pictures20:39
nemolooks like the Nokia 261020:40
RST38hForget it then20:40
HaviOld phone20:40
RST38h2610 isn't upgradable at home20:40
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nemoRST38h: yeah. well. I only use this phone for phone calls20:41
nemobattery lasts essentially forever20:41
nemowas annoyed though that a midp app I was testing couldn't load without oom error20:41
nemoand worked on older model of brick I had20:41
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Sargun_Screennemo: that's a bit of an exaggeration20:41
johnxHavi, see the new comic reader?20:41
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Havijohnx: yeah, I posted there too20:41
nemoRST38h: you know... they might have screwed me20:41
nemoRST38h: I looked up the "old" phone I had20:42
Sargun_Screenthe nokia batteries are amazing though (compared to else)20:42
Havijohnx: I still prefer evince20:42
nemowas Nokia 6030 - that could explain a lot20:42
johnxHavi, ah, nm. I just opened the thread20:42
HaviEvince is snappier :/20:42
RST38htoo bad20:42
nemoSargun_Screen: heh.  Well, I mean I charge it like once a week.20:42
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nemoSargun_Screen: I don't make that many calls, but still20:42
nemophone isn't doing much, so needs less power compared to a fancier portable computer-like phone20:43
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lcukpenguinbait, how well does windowmaker run?20:45
penguinbaitreal well20:45
penguinbaitvery fast20:45
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lcuki was considering messing a while back and that was one of the options20:45
lcukglad its on the device20:45
penguinbaitI wanted to make something small, no boot from SD needed20:46
lcukwhats it like for getting software into it - do standard (recompiled) apps work20:46
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lcukor do they themselves need porting to windowmaker (much the same way as a port to hildon20:46
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penguinbaitIts maemo under the covers, just instal via appmanager or compile and install20:46
lcuki mean apps running inside it20:47
penguinbaitwindowmaker is standard, not porting necessary20:47
penguinbaitIts like running them in normal windowmaker on PC, but its still 800x48020:47
lcukso what, an x11 app will work out of the box20:47
* lcuk will have to try it20:48
lcukexcellent, thanks for porting it - did you have any oddities?20:48
penguinbaitJust one, when you close the last window on the screen, the keyboard shortcuts stop working20:48
lcukheh, i just got to that on your blog :D20:49
penguinbaitIf you switch desktops they start working again20:49
Luriajohnx :
penguinbaitI have not really had time to figure out why yet?20:49
Luriathat looks familiar20:49
lcukooooer penguin - they are probably working still, just effecting someone elses nokia halfway round the world :D20:50
johnxLuria, a little different. same idea though20:50
penguinbaitcould be, I will need to press them more often20:50
Luriaa bit closer20:50
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Luriasame casing20:51
lcuklol, you will stop my movie playin20:51
Luriaso, dolch made the machine for airlink20:51
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penguinbaitits a dead tie, so far I have had 20 downloads of pico and fdisk today :)20:51
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johnxLuria, cool find. is it an atx case inside?20:52
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Luriamine? mine is a backplane with a 4 slot isa riser, cpu/ram card in an isa slot20:53
RST38hpenguinbait, please, commit your stuff to extras20:53
penguinbaitthe repo?20:54
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__275penguinbait this is rather cute20:55
penguinbaitI will consider it20:55
penguinbait275 on my chat page?20:55
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__275yes, and theres a bit of lag, whats it wrote in?20:56
penguinbaitits just a wordpress plugin, in php and cgi:irc20:57
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penguinbaitI did not notice a big lag though20:58
lcukvery nice though, interesting to think about20:58
lcuki think the chan was just goin slow20:58
lcukahh, the lag is not when recving, its sending20:58
__275cos i type here and it takes a while to show up20:58
penguinbaitI was using it next to irc client running yesterday and it seemed fine20:58
__275humm, its caught up now :D lol20:58
penguinbait275 you need to hit enter twice20:58
penguinbaitnot sure why ?20:59
__275hit it twice just once before it catches up and works normally after that?20:59
__275you will probably find this is where your windowmaker keystrokes are goin to :D20:59
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lcukheh, it would be a bit scary if one of these was on the front of the nokia homepage by default..21:00
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lcuk"hELLO CAN YOU HERE ME????"21:01
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GeneralAntillesI'd just pull out the banhammer and never stop.21:01
lcuk:D heh, i cant find norton21:01
penguinbaitHOW DO I OPEN WORD DOCUMENTS ??21:01
lcukWheres my start button21:01
penguinbaitIts the K in the lower right corner :)21:02
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lcukor the X in the top right ;)21:02
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lcukGeneralAntilles, do you have nightmares about stuff like that happenin?21:03
lcukor is it like a victory parade where you are weilding your gavel21:03
penguinbaitI was added to syndication, thanks GA21:04
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X-Fadepenguinbait: Yep, added you this morning.21:04
lcukpenguinbait, anyway, very impressive21:04
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Can you try out if you can plan an event?21:05
lcukand your blog layout is one of the best ive ever seen21:05
penguinbaitI love ITT, but it is becomming a cluster bleep, so I needed somwhere to bring my crap all together21:05
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, are we back in rw now?21:05
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: For we seem to be.21:05
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GeneralAntillesHrm, where do I go to plan one?21:06
X-FadeAnd see if your menu shows 'create event' ;)21:07
GeneralAntillesFolder -> Create event21:07
X-FadeWell, another problem solved ;)21:07
GeneralAntillesI actually _do_ have an event to create.21:07
GeneralAntillesCan I go ahead and do so?21:07
X-FadeI guess you can plan your IRC meeting there.21:07
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lcukback later guys21:07
GeneralAntillesYou can edit an event's time after the fact, though, right?21:08
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Yes, sure. That would be pretty lame ;)21:08
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GeneralAntillesHey, there's no preview button. :P21:08
X-FadeNo, there is edit for that ;)21:08
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, we decide on a date for the sprint 5 review yet?21:14
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: No, not that I know.21:14
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GeneralAntillesand what about continuation to sprint 6, 7, 8, etc?21:15
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X-FadeWell..... ;)21:15
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GeneralAntillesetrunko, lardman|gone, Jaffa, I'm creating a blog entry to advertise the content cleanup and redesign a bit.21:20
GeneralAntillesI guess Midgard wont let me put in an irc:// link?21:22
etrunkothe irc:// link requires a specific firefox extension21:22
GeneralAntillesWorks just fine here in OmniWeb and Safari. . . .21:23
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I think it is tinymce which borks.21:23
yacoobetrunko, extension? Or just setting a helper app for this protocol?21:23
GeneralAntillesYou don't need Chatzilla to use it. ;)21:24
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: You might want to try to edit the pure html?21:24
etrunkoyacoob: or that21:24
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, can I do that?21:24
X-FadeYes, there is a html button in the editor.21:25
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GeneralAntillesI don't see it.21:27
GeneralAntillesBut it's not particularly important.21:27
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: It should be in the top row of the wysiwyg text editor.21:29
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crashanddieThere no two ways about it21:36
crashanddieI love VMWare21:36
GeneralAntillesHow about three ways?21:36
crashanddieYou're the third way21:37
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GeneralAntillespenguinbait, can I talk you into documenting your cloning deb here yet?21:44
infobotfrom memory, boot-sd is
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: looks cool21:52
JaffaGeneralAntilles: add a link to for 19:00 UTC?21:52
GeneralAntillesFeel free. :P21:53
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X-FadeI will try to join the meeting, but I might have family things planned. So we'll see ;)21:54
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penguinbaitSorry I stepped away, I will try to get to it GA  (I hate wiki's)21:54
GeneralAntillesWhat's to hate?21:55
penguinbaitlooks much better than last time I looked21:55
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: true - may have to wait for the boy to be in bed21:56
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lcukjaffa, if you wait for GeneralAntilles to be in bed who will wave the banhammer :D21:59
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lcuks0nted, hello - THANK YOU for the amazing time we had in c-base21:59
s0ntedthanks for making it such a successful event :)22:00
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s0ntedthe standing ovations felt wonderful22:00
GeneralAntilleslcuk, local time will be about 3:00 PM. :P22:00
lcuks0nted, if you dont mind, who are you - i obviously dont have a clue22:00
lcuklol gen22:00
s0ntedI am the housetier22:01
s0ntedthe one and only ^_^ (at least on the space station)22:01
lcuklol, that means nothing to me lol - are you vin diesel or one of the others? :D22:01
s0ntedI am the baldy with the small head, running around in a black hoody and making an angry face all the time22:02
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lcukheh you were smiling at weekend :)22:03
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lcuki have already made arrangements with a few friends to return on my next trip to berlin22:03
s0ntedheh great22:03
lcukdid anyone lose any nokia devices?22:03
lcukif so, they were all mine22:03
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s0ntedwe couldnt even find a t-shirt or jacket (the usual leftovers), also no rucksacks or electronic devices22:04
GeneralAntilleslcuk, you meant to phrase that "I lost 3 N810s and an N800." :P22:04
* GeneralAntilles checks if he can write to the wiki yet.22:05
lcuki know at least one guy left his suitcase there, though that was intentional i think22:05
lcukwe drunk a lot and had a great time, i hope we didnt break anything in the partying afterwards22:06
s0ntedthe DJ from friday left his stuff22:06
s0ntedI have heard no complaints whatsoever22:06
lcukdj hienergy :)22:06
s0ntedhe is a little "weird" but very nice22:07
lcuki got his myspace details and am gonna grab some of his tracks, had a really good mood to it22:07
GeneralAntilles"SSU update repository procedure" or "Tableteer update repository procedure"?22:07
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s0ntedoh yeah that elevator music hahaha22:07
lcukwithout wierdness there is no normality22:07
GeneralAntillesHellooo, qooole22:07
lcukhi qole \o22:07
* lcuk teases you with a liqbase build22:08
qolehey manchester man!22:08
lcuk:D you dont come in here often22:08
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lcukor do you lurk in a different nick :P22:08
qoleI keep forgetting irc...22:09
lcukyer, it keeps forgettin you as well22:09
qolerm_you helped me get on, now I gotta remember to log in22:10
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GeneralAntillesYou should be able to set up your client to do it automatically.22:10
lcuki had jott setup x-chat on my diablo build, i tried before the summit but it was bein screwy with me22:10
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lcukwhere should i put a new button in liqbase22:11
qoleI remembered IRC because I have a tech question...22:12
penguinbaitqole !!22:12
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qolewow, all the big names are here...22:12
lcukactually, penguinbait you havent been in a lot until very recently again, and KotCzarny is back - its like a love in22:12
GeneralAntillesqole, IRC is where all the Kool Kats reside. ;)22:13
lcuklol gen22:13
* GeneralAntilles has no love for KotCzarny.22:13
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lcukim sure he shares the no-love with you as well :D22:13
qoleq: 810 users, what  does this display?22:13
qolecat /proc/cpuinfo | grep Hardware | cut -d " " -f 322:13
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: So hostile...22:13
GeneralAntilleslcuk, clearly not.22:13
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, he nearly drove me out of this channel before he left last time.22:14
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: But now you got ... ops ;)22:14
lcukyou're welcome!!22:14
GeneralAntillesThat reminds me, did you bless etrunko, lardman, Jaffa, and timsamoff?22:15
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lcukwhat ya plannin qole?22:15
qoleNext; how to generate pgp & ssh keys for extras upload...22:15
NaviGeneralAntilles, it's your fault22:15
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lcukgen, when you get pissed off do you throw your chair around?22:15
GeneralAntillesNavi, it's _always_ my fault, no need to state the obvious. :P22:15
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I guess I gave jaffa those rights together with you.22:15
NaviKotCzarny, you suck22:15
GeneralAntilleslcuk, nah, I just let it simmer until I have to blow off steam at Nokia. ;)22:16
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: But I will do that tomorrow. I guess we can trust these guys, no? :)22:16
NaviWhen I get pissed off, everything in my room is broken22:16
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, well, that, or I activate their taser implants.22:16
NaviI try not to leave expensive stuff in here.22:16
GeneralAntillesNavi, you're telekinetic? :D22:16
NaviGeneralAntilles, ha22:16
NaviIf I were telekinetic, I would have made KotCzarny's head explode already22:17
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NaviI was going to type brain instead of head, 'cuz I almost forgot22:17
X-FadeOk, later. I'm off.22:17
lcuk:( i dont like to see unhappy punters especially when i dont know why22:17
lcukcya X-Fade have fun22:17
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Navilcuk, I do love drinking and gambling at pubs22:18
penguinbaitat pubs or anywhere22:19
Navilcuk, if I'm an unhappy punter, it's because I forgot that I can't hold my liquor22:19
lcuki normally skip the drinking and blackjack22:19
qoleI needed the results of that command so I can make my post-install put the right keymap on your device22:19
lcuklol penguinbait22:19
lcukcool, happy to oblige then22:20
lcukright, getting head back into it, ive got 3 goals this evening22:20
penguinbaitI prefer gamibling with friends, then you know who to jump at the end of the evening :)22:20
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penguinbaitgive me my danm money back!!22:21
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penguinbaitsorry about all the penguinbaits joinging, I was testing some diff irc skins22:22
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lcukits a good job you know where to stop, i once nearly lost my wife in a poker game22:22
derfDon't worry. Next time you'll know not to stop there.22:23
penguinbaitI seen someone bet their boots, and walked home barefoot :)22:23
qoleoooh I should post my absinthe video here...22:23
lcuk:D yeah22:23
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lcukand then post online links to download actual absinthe22:23
qoleI taped the magic transformation that occurs when you add water to absinth22:23
lcukthe internet is a series of alcohol filled tubes :D22:23
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qolefree as in beer?22:24
lcukit was on friday night :)22:24
lcukyour upload is quick - last video i put up took forever22:27
qoleThis is the absinthe I bought before going to the Openismus party22:27
qoleI uploaded last night... it took forever, yes.22:27
lcukits not very green, and you really need the sugar :P:P22:27
qoleit is very green. My camera doesn't capture that. It is a yellow-green22:28
lcukis that mrs qole i hear ?22:28
qolehee hee22:28
lcuki went to a kylie concert - the lighting was some electric blue amazing shade - on the camera it looked awful22:28
qolemy narration sucks22:28
lcukbetter accent than me ;)22:29
lcukhow drunk would that get you22:29
qolestraight up, the absinthe I bought has 72% alc.22:30
qoleso it all depends how much water you add :D22:30
lcuki know that, but in real terms how many glasses do you drink before giving up for the night (or should i say waking up in the mornin)22:30
qoleI'm not the guy to ask, I can't drink very much before feeling like crap the next day22:31
lcukthe n800 self recording video you made - is it youtube thats out of sync, or the recording you made22:31
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qolethe recording... there's something wrong with the camera on the N800, drops frames while recording, makes a hash of av sync22:32
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lcukwhat res did you record at22:32
lcukand i know that - i dont think its the cam, theres a process running about 3 times a second which drags entire system with it22:32
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KotCzarnykill it22:33
qoleknown bug in the kernel, but the patch doesn't help much except to kill the error messages22:33
lcuki notice it when looking at certain screens - it does 25fps most of the time, then drops22:33
KotCzarnykill kill kill22:33
KotCzarnyrenicing also works22:33
lcukgood mornin to you kot :) lol22:33
lcuknicing what? my app22:33
* KotCzarny has mmc and xomap renice3d22:34
KotCzarnyand i think i have reniced something else too22:34
KotCzarnybut don't remember what22:34
lcuklol probably something random and not vital until it overlaps you tryin to do somethin ;022:35
lcukanyway, i said a few minutes ago im goin22:35
* lcuk is on a mission22:35
KotCzarnyok, breakfast time22:36
qolethe problem manifests as a VIDIOC_DQBUF error in VLC22:36
lcukarghhh tell me later evil irc22:36
* lcuk shuts it off to stop lookin22:36
lcukfeck off22:37
lcuki can quit anytime i want22:37
KotCzarnyyou turned it off22:37
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KotCzarnydon't blow your cover22:37
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KotCzarnybut isn't that patch only hiding the missing frames?22:38
KotCzarnymaybe it should return blank frame instead22:38
qoleexactly... doesn't fix the problem, just hides it22:39
qoleso av sync still slips22:39
KotCzarnymail the author of the patch about it? :)22:40
qoleanyway, thanks for help, all!22:40
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johnxhaha! finally made matchbox-keyboard behave in debian22:57
johnxthat took waaaay too much effort22:57
woglindejohnx what was the problem?22:58
johnxwoglinde, it behaves in a somewhat silly way when not used with matchbox-wm22:59
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johnxit wanted to be at the top of the screen and wouldn't set it's window type or wm_class22:59
woglindexkbd works fine *g*22:59
johnxwoglinde, under matchbox-wm or something else?23:00
woglindeon n8xx23:01
johnxright, so under matchbox-wm23:01
johnxmatchbox-keyboard is fine too under matchbox-wm23:01
johnxbut when you try and use it with another wm it behaves badly23:01
woglindehm the kde virtualkeyboard works fine for me on blackbox23:02
johnx...and I like being able to resize my windows :)23:02
woglindeI agree23:02
johnxanyways, it's docked against the bottom nicely now23:02
johnxapps don't maximize over it and they don't even get placed over it when it's visible23:03
johnxI'll consider this victory for now23:03
johnxand all I had to do was re-learn lisp...23:03
woglindehuh matchboxkeyboard is written in lisp?23:04
johnxI hacked this from a window manager point of view23:04
johnxsawfish is awesome23:04
woglindehm than you did the same trick like me for nx stuff on the n810?23:04
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woglindelooking for window and then set wm_class and stuff23:05
GNUtonHi there23:05
johnxsawfish just waits for a window named "Keyboard" to get mapped then mangles it :)23:05
johnxhi GNUton23:06
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woglindehm I build in nxproxy let search in seperate thread23:07
woglindelibxuu rockz for this23:07
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woglindehi GNUton23:11
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riotomfg.. i'm having space-problems and now i see the sample pictures provided by nokia.. theres a 2 MB jpeg in there.. OMFG23:26
johnxbeen there, done that23:26
johnxcheck out the PDFs they give you too23:26
johnxand that video23:26
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rioti thought they'd reside on the internal 2gb space.. but noes....23:29
riotthe pdfs are nice, too... portugese manuals even in 2 versions etc.etc.etc..23:29
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riotoh lala..23:29
KotCzarnyi wonder who needs manual to use it..23:30
riotthey're probably obliged to deliver it23:31
johnxI guess they accidentally sold it to people who weren't computer geeks or something23:31
KotCzarnyisn't it kind of 'put fewer buttons and more pictograms' device?23:31
johnxand the user guide explains the pictograms to people who haven't seen them23:32
riotor some dork who wasn't in any way neither geek nor coder (e.g. business-consultant or somewhat) put the stuff on..23:32
KotCzarnyisn't the point of pictograms to be obvious?23:32
riotKotCzarny: yet you bet, stupid wallstreet managers need some extra-explanation...23:33
riotthe avg. blackberry user NEEEDS a Manual! And Colourful videos! And 2 Meg JPEGS!! (must be at compression level 0...)23:34
KotCzarnyyou mean, those stupids rule our economy?23:34
riotGZZZ. All that shit is hidden, even!23:34
riotKotCzarny: yea.23:34
riotno wonder i missed it until i just started a backup via scp..23:34
johnxKotCzarny, and they have lots more money than us. makes you think about priorities, huh?23:35
KotCzarnyscp won't backup device and special files23:35
KotCzarnyjohnx: scary23:36
riot13 megs of international userguides. *PLONK*23:36
KotCzarnyriot: clone to sd23:36
riotKotCzarny: i'm just backing up my /home/user23:36
riotthe os seems to be broken.. i get strange errors.23:36
riotand i wanted to upgrade to diablo anyway23:36
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riotKotCzarny: then i'd rather mount a sshfs. My card's full :)23:38
KotCzarnyclone to sd23:38
KotCzarnyclone the os to sd23:38
riotnah, i won't.23:39
KotCzarnywhy, it's simple23:39
riotsd -> full23:40
riotos -> b0rked23:40
KotCzarny1gig for os, 3gigs for data23:40
KotCzarnyworks for me23:40
riotgot a 3 tb raid here and fast wireless.23:40
KotCzarnybut n8x0 has slow wireless23:41
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riotright. How much bandwidth does it when transferring to sd?23:41
rioti currently have avg. 600 kb/sec23:41
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KotCzarnyyou mean sd speed?23:42
KotCzarnyor wifi -> sd speed?23:42
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riotinternal flash -> sd23:42
KotCzarnyshould be few megs23:43
KotCzarnyassuming your sd is fast23:43
KotCzarnyand you don't copy many small files23:43
riotshould be, its a sandisk 8 GB23:43
KotCzarnyevery flash fails when copying many small files23:43
riotscp does so, too, right now23:44
riotwell.. gotta go.. cya later :)23:45
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johnxquick screenie before bed:
KotCzarnymake it transparent23:59
johnxbecause everything is better transparent?23:59
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johnxto make it less easy to see on a tiny screen?23:59
KotCzarnybecause it will not make things claustrophobic23:59

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