IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-09-23

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zapis there a way to exit a infinite-boot-loop on maemo?00:16
Mekpull the battery? :P00:17
zapit will reboot as soon as the desktop appears00:17
zapthanks to a hint on bugzilla :-\00:17
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zaplooks like its finally time to roll my own COM wire00:18
zapanybody has positive experience with making a COM wire for n8x0?00:18
GeneralAntillesDisable the lifeguard00:19
GeneralAntillesWhat's the last thing you did?00:19
zapadded the line  'allow-hotplug usb0' to /etc/network/interfaces00:19
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zapand rebooted :)00:20
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Stskeepszap: sounds like reflash is still possible though00:23
zapsure it is00:23
GeneralAntilleszap, you have bootmenu installed?00:23
zapbut I would hate it00:23
zapnope :-(00:24
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zapalways found better things to do than to install that :-(00:24
GeneralAntillesGet somebody to give you a jffs2 image00:24
GeneralAntillesand flash it00:24
GeneralAntillesthen usbnet and fix it00:24
GeneralAntillesor disable the lifeguard with flasher00:24
GeneralAntillesand hope you have sshd installed and autoconnect on.00:24
zapaha, got it00:25
zapyou mean a initrd jffs2 image00:25
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crashanddieI'm tempted to send my nearly Linux-only CV to Microsoft00:28
crashanddiejust for s&g00:28
GeneralAntillesI'm sure they have a Linux division.00:30
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* Stskeeps caches google maps for dublin on his tablet as he's going there wednesday00:30
zapGeneralAntilles: they submit crap patches to Linus?00:32
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crashanddiezap, they already use 90% of their time writing those for Windows00:32
zapcrashanddie: but m$ linux division, what it does?00:32
crashanddieanswer the phone00:33
zapto people with their linux-only CV?00:33
crashanddie"Hey, Chris, it's Bill" "Oh, hi again Bill" "Yeah, I just thought about this amazing idea for Longhorn... Imagine a 3D desktop, like a cube" "Sorry mate, Linux has had it for a few years" "Yeah I know, just saw it on YouTube, that's the whole point"00:34
zapthey already have a FAQ on their site, "how to remove Linux before installing windows"00:34
zapwhat more a windows user needs ;)00:34
crashanddieearlier today in the phone repair shop, I explained my problem with the NIT00:35
crashanddieAnd I said "well, I'm pretty sure it's just the connector to the screen module that's come loose"00:35
* Dotel does the dance of happyness00:35
crashanddieAnd the guy said "Yeah but you know, on the motherboard, there's resistors, very small tiny resistors, and if they come loose, there's a lot of signals that can't go through anymore, which is why maybe your screen doesn't work anymore"00:36
GeneralAntillesDid you slap him?00:36
moontigercrashanddie: you want to work as MS?00:37
moontigeras = at00:37
crashanddieFUCK NO00:37
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moontigeroh ok00:37
crashanddieyou have a job offer?00:37
moontigerme? hell no00:37
crashanddieoh, well, then FUCK NO00:37
moontigerbut if you want to work there i can get you in the door00:37
* crashanddie slaps himself for writing too fast00:38
crashanddiemoontiger, whatever pays the bills I guess, you know if they have a dev division in London?00:38
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moontigernot sure about that ... what sort of coding you want to do there?00:38
Dotelhas anyone compared the opera and mosilla engines, is it worth the effort to get the new opera on 2007 HE?00:39
crashanddiemoontiger, I'm just good with C++, I just graduated, so anything to get me started really00:39
moontigeryou like craphics coding? 3d and such?00:39
GeneralAntillesDotel, Opera sux.00:40
moontigergraphics too00:40
crashanddiemoontiger, I played around with SDL very quickly, it's far from what I've done the most, honestly, but it is something I would consider, yes indeed00:40
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moontigerwell i have a *very* good friend who heads up the 3d stuff there and always asks me to send him resumes of people who want to do that stuff00:41
moontigerif ur good he can make things happen00:41
moontigerbut he is in seattle and i dont know if they have that stuff outside of there00:41
crashanddiewell... If he's willing to pay for relocation :D00:41
* Dotel cant wait till his 1gb MMC comes in mail00:41
crashanddieDotel, I have a 16Gig microsd arriving :P00:42
moontigercrashanddie: they will pay for all that if ur good enough00:43
moontigeri dont get anything btw from sending ur resume but if he gets u in i think he gets a bonus00:43
Dotelcrashanddie, unfortunatly that won't fit in my 77000:43
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crashanddieDotel, no, but it'll fit in my n81000:43
DotelI have a 16gb HDSD in my Eee tho00:43
crashanddieSDHC I take it?00:43
Dotelthose thingys00:44
moontigercrashanddie: you have 16gb micro-sd??00:44
moontigerdamn i only have 8gb :|00:44
crashanddieI don't have it yet00:44
Dotelmy 64mb MMC in my 770, doesn't quite cut it.00:44
||cwEee takes full SD00:44
crashanddie||cw, so?00:44
DotelI really like my Eee00:44
crashanddieSDHC == any SD form factor but 4gig+00:45
moontigercrashanddie: isnt it 2+ gb?00:45
GeneralAntillesBut not including 2GB. :P00:45
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GeneralAntilles4GB SD is a hack00:45
DotelI've never seen a 3gb sd00:45
GeneralAntilles2GB is SD00:46
crashanddieI thought it was up to 2gig = SD, and 4+ gig == sdhc00:46
GeneralAntilles4GB can be either SD or SDHC00:46
moontiger2gb+ == sdhc no?00:46
crashanddielots of confusion in the air :D00:46
GeneralAntilles2GB and 4GB can be SD.00:46
Dotela 3gb SD would be a sdhc if they existed00:46
* moontiger makes notes00:46
GeneralAntillesThe SD specification only says up to 2GB, though.00:46
GeneralAntilles4GB comes in both flavors.00:46
* Dotel licks his SD card to verify type00:47
crashanddiemoontiger, new 16Gig microsd starts shipping in a few hours00:47
moontigercrashanddie: how much are they?00:49
crashanddieabout 50 quid shipped00:49
crashanddiethat's almost a hundred bucks for you yanks00:49
moontigerdamn!!!  *goes to check on amazon*00:49
moontigerim english actually00:49
moontigerbut living stateside00:49
moontigeruntil december00:49
crashanddieYank by assimilation then00:49
moontigernot really ... saffer by assimilation00:50
crashanddiemoontiger, mind you, I'm not english :P00:50
moontigerwhere u from crashanddie00:51
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crashanddiemainland europe00:51
moontigernice ... im moving to madrid in december00:51
crashanddiemoontiger, nice, what for, work?00:51
moontigernot really ... change of scenery ... work will come00:52
Dotellol - When using MMC for virtual memory, DON'T REMOVE IT00:52
* Dotel smacks his forhead00:52
moontigerDotel: lol00:52
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DotelI did that on a server, I had a Mirror on LVM,  I never noticed the Swap never made it to the LVM.  Yanked the drive. And  My life instantly got complicated00:53
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Mouseyinstant complication00:54
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* Mousey takes notes00:54
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nikosapiIs there a simple way for an application to detect if it's running on maemo? (besides /etc/issue)01:06
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zapan application to detect itself?01:09
zapor a script to detect an application?01:09
zapor a gtk program to detect other app?01:09
zapit all depends on what API you can use01:09
GeneralAntillesFor an application to figure out of it is running on Maemo.01:09
nikosapiI'm working on a cross-platform application (in python)01:10
zapcheck some env vars?01:10
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nikosapiI'd like a reliable way to check whether it's running on maemo that way I can take advantange of all the nice things in the hildon module01:10
zaptry: import hildon ?01:10
lmouranikosapi, you can try: import hildon01:11
zaphehe, I was 1st :)01:11
nikosapiyou can have the hildon module on a non-maemo distro...01:11
zapso what? don't you want to use the nice hildon features there too? :)01:11
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windstormhi zap, I have restarted and it works well automatically. SO thanks.01:11
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zapwindstorm: cool01:11
nikosapino, they don't tend to work unless you're using maemo01:12
windstormone more question, I don't have the conversation history01:12
zapnikosapi: you mean somebody may have a non-working hildon library set?01:12
nikosapizap: yep01:12
windstormcan you just copy it and message to me privately?01:12
nikosapizap: plus, I'd rather not use the hildon lib on the desktop01:12
zapnikosapi: then look in the os module01:14
nikosapioh, good idea01:14
zapor somewhere under /proc/*01:14
zapor uname -r01:14
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zapalso you might check if /etc/issue contains "Internet Tablet OS" :-)01:16
zapbut somebody might change it01:17
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zapor /etc/maemo_version01:17
nikosapithat file doesn't exist on my n81001:17
zapsad, I seen it in scratchbox01:18
zapalso /etc/osso-software-version01:18
zapsorry, osso_software_version01:18
GeneralAntillesInternet Tablet OS is dead.01:19
nikosapithanks zap, I think I'll go with that :D01:19
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, eh?01:20
GeneralAntillesIt's deprecated01:20
zapbut I'd rather use try: import hildon01:20
GeneralAntillesInternet Tablet OS -> Maemo01:20
moontigerthey dont ship to the states01:20
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, ah, ok, lol01:20
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, you're deprecated01:20
zapnikosapi: do you have any distro which has hildon installed, but non-working?01:20
GeneralAntillesGeneralAntilles -> YourLordandMaster01:21
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nikosapizap: not me, but someone else who's working on the project does and he said that none of the hildon widgets seem to work01:21
nikosapiwho knows, perhaps he screwed up01:22
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zapAnybody can share a initfs.jffs2 with a built-in bootmenu?01:37
zapfor diablo01:37
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jpereiranrsalveti you are ricardo?02:48
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lcukcrashanddie, you about?03:26
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* brontide doesn't want to think about a hot GA03:48
lcukewwww a sweaty leader, somebody get this man some deoderant - stat03:49
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GAN8001.5 hours of HAVA03:50
GAN800internal temp03:50
lcukohhhh, i almost burnt out my 810 a couple of weeks back when i left a book covering it all day whilst charging03:50
lcukit was inside the crate03:51
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lcukhows your shoebox doing?03:51
GAN800Still bricked.03:52
lcukeh? what did you do to it?03:52
lcuki wasnt aware you had broken it03:52
GAN800it wasn't very hot at all after running big bucky bunny for a while, though.03:52
GAN800Hosed the bootloadee03:52
GAN800Can't seem to recover it a second time. . . .03:52
GAN800I suppose 2W@5v isn't really enough to put out the heat to appreciably warm that box. :p03:53
lcukso what are you gonna do about it?03:53
lcukdid you get maemo running on a desktop before it died?03:54
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GAN800Recover it03:54
GAN800I just have to get it to use an x-loader off the SD03:54
GAN800Which shouldn't be too hard, but I was having issues.03:55
lcukis it a priority?03:55
GAN800Not at the moment03:55
GAN800Maybe this weelend.03:55
lcukfair enough, hows council stuff goin03:55
lcukor is there none yet :D03:55
GAN800No, tried booting Maemo, but in need to figure out how to either get the initfs in there or remove it from the equation.03:56
GAN800Not really much yet03:56
GAN800waiting for them to come down from the summit.03:56
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ryoohkiis the WiMax edition out yet?03:57
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ryoohkiGAN800: thanks!03:58
GAN800I still haven't heard back if they made any progress on the community issue I proposed.03:58
brontidefrom Nokia at the summit the wimax edition is done.... they are waiting on Sprint to finish up the network issues03:58
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ryoohkibrontide: yeah, sprint is the big problem... i live in sf bay area( silicon valley) but they are rolling out in places like chicago...04:00
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lcukbrontide, :) hiya did you have far to get home from the summit?04:02
brontideFrom my understanding the Wimax edition was complete and ready to ship with Diablo, but sprint keeps "tweaking" the network and Nokia has to retest04:02
brontidelcuk: 6 hour time diff if that gives you a hint04:02
brontideNot as bad as qole04:02
lcuk6 hours, thats what 12 whiskey shots04:02
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brontideOr like 14 hours of travel ( including layovers )04:03
lcukyer, even qole wasnt the furthest was he04:03
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lcukwerent some of the indt guys coming from brazil04:03
brontideNope, I'm sure the INdT people had quite a trip as well04:03
brontideThat was exciting... open source Canola204:04
GAN800It deserves it.04:04
lcukheh, it would be if i listened to music ;)  but yes its great news04:05
GAN800podcasts here04:05
brontideYou haven't seen the version to be released04:05
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brontidemaps, carman integration, "follow me" mode ( jabber integration and communication with other units )04:05
brontideand other neat stuff04:06
lcukyer, its growing very nicely04:06
GAN800Carman looks hot04:06
brontidereally slick04:06
GAN800I need to get the Bluetooth serial adaptor.04:06
brontideI'll be happy to get the pictures straightened out so that my growing collection is displayed right04:07
lcukyer ive got it dont you need a sensor fitting to your car to use it?04:08
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GAN800on every car since 199604:08
lcukwhat does it connect to?04:09
lcukis there a wire in my car?04:09
brontidethere is a serial port somewhere04:09
lcukahhh cool04:09
GAN800usually under the dash driver's side or in the center console.04:10
lcukluke will love this sort of thing, i can see him playing and watching from the back of the car ;)04:10
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GAN800Wish the serial interface were a bit faster.04:10
lcukdoes it need to be?04:10
GAN800The guages are a little jerky and low resolution as is.04:11
lcukwhat sort of jumps are you seeing, and are you sure its not rendering glitches?04:12
GAN800No, it's not rendering glitches. :P04:12
lcukthe speedo on my car refreshes once a second04:12
GAN800The scan rate is too slow04:12
lcukive got it on n2 at the side of me04:12
GAN800in the 1hz range04:13
lcukwith test data - i can see its fast enough technically04:13
GAN8001hz speedo?04:13
GAN800Built-in speedo?04:13
lcukyer, it displays mph as large numbers - if it refreshed faster it would cause a flickering which could distract you04:14
lcukwith guages its different if they transition smoothly04:14
GAN800What car? <_<04:14
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lcuka citroen04:14
GAN800My dad's Prius definitely refreshs its digital guage more than once a second.04:15
lcuki believe it is the colorscheme, if i had designed the dash i would not put the stupid shit they have on it04:15
GAN8001hz isn't workable for, say, a tach.04:15
lcukthings like the fuel lightswell thats the kind of changes im seeing carman test stuff giving04:16
GAN800or boost pressure04:16
GAN8001hz is too slow for that04:16
lcukthe needle just transitions between old and new smoothly04:16
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gregoroviusi'm having quite bad battery life on my n800 lately, and it accidentally fell off my desk a couple weeks ago, could it be related?05:51
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sneakretelekt: hahaha07:09
elektthat gif is topic in half the efnet by now07:12
KotCzarnywhich one?07:12
KotCzarnyisn't it kind of old?07:16
elektexcuse me, mr Trend07:16
KotCzarnyfunny nevertheless :)07:16
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sneakretI don't remember seeing it before.07:19
sneakretbut I live under a rock07:20
KotCzarnyand probably older than that07:20
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KotCzarnybut don't worry, i haven't seen even older memes yet07:20
elektwhat's a meme?07:21
KotCzarnyasking seriously?07:21
KotCzarnyor just playing along ;)07:21
sneakretmemes is memes07:21
elekti think it started out as a point i was making but i started laughing07:21
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elektmy tablet is getting close to a good flashing07:22
KotCzarnySee also07:22
KotCzarny    * Forum spam07:22
KotCzarnyi love wiki07:22
KotCzarnyanyway, i was under the rock with my n80007:23
KotCzarnyanything interesting happened to diablo?07:23
elekti'm sort of in a cave07:23
elekti think there's goodies in the store, but i don't know how far off07:24
KotCzarnyok, bbl07:26
KotCzarny<mode lurk=on>07:26
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sneakretseems like downloads are broken07:31
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sneakretat the moment07:31
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timelyxryoohki: fwiw, iirc chicago isn't first on sprint's list08:04
elektif the screen on n800 gets scratched up, am i covered under warranty?08:05
elektlike from normal usage08:05
GeneralAntillesThat's regular old wear and tear.08:05
elektwhoa, save the capitals08:05
elektyeah but if it's regular wear and tear08:06
NaviKotCzarny, your mother is so fat, she died of a heart attack an hour ago.  Please call the morgue.08:06
elektshouldn't that be covered?08:06
elektit's not accidenetal damage08:06
KotCzarnynavi, go troll yourself08:06
GeneralAntillesNo, it's not covered.08:06
NaviKotCzarny, your face is so ugly, your mother died of a heart attack an hour ago.  Please call the morgue.08:06
elektthat sucks pickled eggs08:06
GeneralAntillesI don't know any manufacturer that covers stuff like that in a regular warranty.08:06
KotCzarnyelekt, you can get extended warranty from the shop i guess08:07
elekti did, 2 years08:07
GeneralAntillesWell, that's a different warranty.08:07
GeneralAntillesYou might have luck with that.08:07
elektyeah, i don't think they would cover it either fi the maker isn't08:07
elektfi = if08:07
KotCzarnynot true08:07
elektit's not horrible yet, but i can see it getting there08:07
GeneralAntillesAnyway, that's why you use a screen protector.08:08
elekta wah?08:08
KotCzarnyplastic condom for the screen08:08
NaviGeneralAntilles, screen protectors are for people like KotCzarny, who are too rough with the tablet in bed.08:08
KotCzarny^ troll08:08
elekti'm hoping maybe the n800 wil totally disappear from microcenter and they'll give me an 81008:09
elektor the one after08:09
KotCzarnywhat if they find one in the attic?08:10
KotCzarnyyou will end up with old battery08:10
NaviYou might end up with KotCzarny.08:10
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NaviScary thought, right?08:10
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NaviHi, tekojo!08:25
tekojoStill quiet here?08:26
GeneralAntillesDepends on the time of day.08:26
tekojoAh, GA, always here :-)08:27
GeneralAntillesJust heading to bed. ;)08:27
summatusmentisbed? it's 12:3008:28
summatusmentisor, I guess it's 1:30 in florida08:28
KotCzarnyin nyc too08:28
tekojoAlmost morning then08:28
summatusmentiswell, yhea, east coast08:28
KotCzarnyalthough it all depends on biological clock timezone :)08:29
KotCzarnywhen you gotta go, you gotta go08:29
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GAN800So, uh, did we actually get the new servers today?08:31
fluentisgood morning @all08:31
tekojoGAN800: Yes we should. In the afternoon GMT08:32
tekojoI hope they perform as well in the wild as in internal tests08:32
fluentishave a question about dosbox - anyone here using it?08:32
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GAN800They've sort of been 'coming' for the past 8 months, so just wanted to be sure. ;)08:33
NaviDon't ask to ask or ask if anyone is using something08:33
Navior otherwise08:33
tekojoWell, yes. Now they should really come08:33
NaviIt's best to just ask your question, fluentis08:33
timelyxhi tekojo08:33
tekojoHi timelyx08:34
tekojoWhy not the normal nick?08:34
fluentisNavi, thank you... I need the funktion kes on n810 in dosbox - f1, f2 etc. is it possible?08:35
timelyxthis is my mac08:38
KotCzarnybut it depends what you want to lose08:38
KotCzarnyscreen estate or other keys08:38
timelessi can speak from anywhere as timeless08:38
KotCzarnyie. you can use some virtual keyboard08:38
timelyxbut this keeps a much longer scrollback08:39
timelyx(and has windows/tabs)08:39
KotCzarnyor remap shift/alt or anything to produce keycodes you want08:39
timelyx(snak uses 400mb or so for those features)08:39
timelyxwhich makes it a fairly tiny app08:39
fluentisKotCzarny, so directly, like ctrl+1=fn1 is not possible?08:40
timelyxwindow server uses a bit over 400mb, safari ~600mb, ff uses 1g, kernel uses slightly more, and camino is using 1.35g :)08:40
KotCzarnyfluentis: xmodmap08:40
timelyxhrm, the vm size on my mac is 14g08:41
fluentisok, KotCzarny thx08:41
timelyxthat's kinda bad given that i only have 2 1/4 g of ram08:41
KotCzarnytimelyx: you are spoiled, i have 128mb in my n800 :)08:41
tekojotimelyx: ok, sounds sensible08:42
timelyxspoiled? nah08:42
timelyxmy workstation is tiny w/ a mere 4g of ram and 31g of swap08:42
timelyxmy coworkers have boxes w/ 16g of ram :(08:42
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timelyxi think my box does more work than most of them too :(08:43
timelyxbut i really need to do some optimization instead of complaining08:43
timelyxi have some code which uses a perl TIE and only writes when it's done08:44
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timelyxwhich makes it a fairly big pig08:44
KotCzarnytimelyx: ask them to install vnc ? :)08:44
StskeepsKotCzarny: good job on kcbatt btw08:55
KotCzarnyi just gethered 2 pieces of code08:55
Stskeepswell interesting to say the least ;)08:55
KotCzarnyand made few rundowns08:55
KotCzarnyno one sent me their rundows though :/08:55
KotCzarnywell, one person did08:56
KotCzarnyStskeeps: do you have digital voltimeter? ;)08:56
Stskeepshehe, not at hand no08:56
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KotCzarnyit would be very helpful to translate retu values to voltage08:57
Stskeepsi'm mostly interested from perspective of replacing hald-addon-bme with a open source version somewhat (basically battery meter in HAL)08:58
Stskeepsand the documentation of hw interfaces08:58
KotCzarnythat's why having voltage would be nice :)08:58
Stskeepsaustin che seemingily works on reverse engineering the BME protocol.. could also be interesting to see09:01
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KotCzarnydid he have much of a success?09:04
Stskeepswell he seeming started a couple of days ago so :P right now it's just a unix socket connect ;)09:06
Stskeepsbut i guess he might have somewhere to start09:06
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KotCzarnyhi pupnik09:07
KotCzarnyStskeeps: at least it's a start :)09:07
pupnik810hi KotCzarny !09:08
pupnik810nice 2 see u still alive09:08
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KotCzarnywanna another cool game?09:08
solmumahamorning pupnik81009:08
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ccookeMorning, all09:09
pupnik810yes cool game plox09:10
KotCzarnymoved few boxes to visible positions09:12
KotCzarnyotherwise it's a clean compile09:12
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KotCzarnypretty addictive for a short, idle moments09:12
pupnik810cooll ty!09:13
KotCzarnyand pretty well done09:13
KotCzarny(not mine, i only found it)09:13
KotCzarnycan be played with stylus and kb09:14
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pupnik810bad wlan here09:15
KotCzarnyno worries, my laptop is on 24/709:16
KotCzarnyalso it has educational factor09:18
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pupnik810ok - have 2 go .. ttyl09:21
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thuxhi, deblet says : "netstat: no support for `AF INET (tcp)' on this system." is that important?10:02
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Stskeepsthux: eh.. what tablet, kernel?10:07
thuxStskeeps: this beta310:07
Stskeepsah, johnx's beta3?10:08
thuxi think so yes10:08
Stskeepsno clue then, i just know deblet (which comes after beta3 :P)10:08
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thuxStskeeps: btw where that new deblet can be download?10:11
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Stskeepsusually but wait a week or so till we have the new installer stable10:13
Stskeepsas you'd just end up reinstalling else10:13
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* zap thanks fannoush for bootmenu10:14
* KotCzarny agrees10:15
zapwould have to reflash :)10:15
KotCzarnyalthough fanoush is not an irc person10:15
KotCzarnyunless something has changed10:15
zapthat was more of "thanks God for ..." style10:15
StskeepsKotCzarny: yeah, think he has too much work and family to deal with for irc10:16
* zap has a family too10:16
zapsometimes :)10:16
KotCzarnyfanoush is a hacker10:16
zapa hacker has no family :)10:16
KotCzarnynot true10:16
* Stskeeps starts a debootstrap on his tablet and thinks it'll take all day..10:16
zaphe lives in dark woods and uses sattelite internet10:16
zapsometimes he takes out his gun and goes out to hunt some bears, for food10:17
zap*his BFG200010:17
KotCzarnythink he uses emacs?10:19
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* Italodance [Nick: Italodance] [Server:] [Server UpTime: 1day 18hrs 30mins 17secs] [mIRC UpTime: 1day 18hrs 32mins] [] [CPU: 1-Intel Pentium 4, 2395MHz, 0KB (21% Load) ]10:28
* Italodance [WinXP UpTime: 1day 18hrs 35mins 53secs] [Idle: 13hrs 51mins 24secs] [Time&Date: 11:58:35 × 23/09/2008] [DCC Gets: 0/0] [DCC Sends: 0/0] [Memory Usage: 321/512MB (62.70%) ]10:28
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KotCzarnyoh,  acity!11:10
RST38hway too shiny to keep me from pasting it here =)11:11
KotCzarnythere were some photos of london lately11:11
KotCzarnyhigh res11:11
KotCzarnyalso shiny11:11
KotCzarnylet me look for it11:11
RST38hTokyo usually excels in shininess11:11
RST38hUmgh, cool11:12
RST38hDifferent shiny though, looks more like something out of a harry Potter novel11:12
KotCzarnyand remember they were taken at night from a helicopter11:12
KotCzarnyguy is a pro11:13
RST38hSome of these are uncomfortably close to buildings11:13
RST38hEither he has got a huge zoom, or his pilot was a wacko11:13
KotCzarnyi bet on the latter11:14
KotCzarnym25 looks disturbing11:14
KotCzarnylike a hot lava11:14
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lcuk:) hey kot extremely good to see you.  we shall catch up tonight if you are around, theres lots of news - i hope all is fine with you11:15
RST38hThe lightning they use appears to be different from the one in US or Russia11:15
KotCzarnyhi lcuk :)11:15
RST38hhey lcuk11:15
KotCzarnyi have seen your second vid11:15
KotCzarnyyou rule!11:15
KotCzarnyrst: 'lighting'11:16
RST38hWarmer tone11:16
lcukyou havent seen the live app - that vide is just one tiny part11:16
RST38hKot: yea, sorry11:16
KotCzarnyif anyone used lightning to took a photo, it would be god himself11:16
KotCzarnylcuk: yeah, can't wait to port it to my x4011:16
lcukif i had time i would get it on ftp for you - will do this evening11:16
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RST38hKot: Photographers are also known to make use of it, every now and then =)11:17
lcukno prob lol - its already half converted - i have a -DUSE_MAEMO flag nowadays :) i shouldv listened to you at first ;)11:17
KotCzarnymore tamed versions11:17
KotCzarnyi guess11:17
RST38hlcuk: The highway lighting in UK - what is it?11:17
KotCzarnyno probs11:17
KotCzarnyi have finished wathing las vegas parano11:18
lcukummm i dunno11:18
* lcuk runs11:18
KotCzarnyand going to bed soon :)11:18
RST38hoh well, back to work11:18
lcukoh kot - you win on linecount, i win on wordcount i believe ;)11:18
KotCzarnyi win on smiley count too11:18
RST38hGeneral will be unhappy =)11:19
KotCzarnyoh well11:19
KotCzarnyyou can't have everything11:19
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bluebatit works :)11:21
bluebatnever used irc before.11:21
KotCzarnybut don't count on it11:21
bluebatis anybody here experienced in gstreamer in diablo?11:22
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KotCzarnyclickity clicky n00b11:22
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KotCzarnynite nite.11:40
RST38hwrong window11:41
KotCzarnynope, bed time11:41
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XTLThere's a school shooting going on again :-/11:42
Fatalin US?11:44
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Fatalok, sadly I don't read/speak finnish :/11:45
XTLKind of a copycat, even11:46
solmumahastupid finns11:46
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thuxXTL: where more information?11:50
Kegetys that guy apparently11:50
RST38hsolmumaha: How can you call them stupid until we know the details?11:51
RST38hMaybe the shooter was a genius and dispatched his victims in a really creative and ironic way?11:51
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solmumahaRST38h: :) sorry for jumping to conclusions11:55
solmumahahope this trend doesn't spread to office buildings11:55
XTL<3 Office Space11:56
solmumahahe could've been a bit more original11:57
XTLDidn't post a manifesto either11:57
thuxfinns are well armed i think third in hand guns in the world11:57
solmumahasigh, just another clown monkey11:58
RST38htalked himself into killing people?11:59
blafaselAny english link?12:00
RST38hblafasel: who cares? they are all the same12:01
blafaselRST38h: I'm really interested how minds like that work and how they could survive for more than a couple of years12:02
RST38hblafasel: Takes a PhD to massacre properly (see Unabomber)12:02
RST38hblafasel: Well, the guy has to be a firearm fan and should also have some weird mania. Maybe he does not like the jews, or immigrants, or policemen12:03
blafaselOr himself. Or his wiener.12:03
RST38hblafasel: So, he is slowly talking himself into how macho he is with his gun and how the group in question is opressing him12:04
blafaselI don't get it. But that's probably a good thing here.12:04
XTLNot neccessarily the victim group12:04
XTLBut some group12:04
RST38hblafasel: When enemies finally start waving at him from the fridge and take his car keys away every night, he goes off and starts shooting people12:04
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RST38hxtl: Of course12:05
RST38h EHLO12:05
blafaselYeah. And no one cares or sees that this idiot is completely nuts, posting youtube videos in which he's "da man" only.12:05
blafaselBefore, I mean.12:05
XTLI think the completely nuts comes through pretty well12:06
RST38hblafasel: btw,
RST38hblafasel: It's in English. Provides some insight.12:06
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RST38hblafasel: But the described case is different from the poor Finn. This particular guy had external reasons.12:06
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blafaselInteresting link. Thanks12:10
konttoriwhat the *ck is wrong with people living in remote places of finland12:10
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konttoriI think they are missing the society in places like kauhava... or something.12:11
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aquatixkonttori: the fact that they live in remote places of finland/12:11
baabanot _that_ much12:11
aquatixi think they just go bananas12:11
baabathere's plenty of people who don't flip out there12:11
aquatixi would12:11
konttoriyeah, me too probably12:12
baababut the brain's a pretty complex thing - it's not hard to imagine that occasionally something goes pretty disastrously wrong12:12
aquatixor maybe not, if the internet is decent there12:12
konttoriliving your entire life in the middle of nowhere... can't do good for your soul12:12
thuxkonttori: jokela wasn't so remote12:13
konttoriI couldn't place jokela on the map, so I don't see it as exactly a metropol either.12:13
thuxnear of helsinki12:14
thuxin my gps12:14
konttorijokela: 6000 people.
konttoripopulation density 11.1 people per km ^212:15
thuxbut jokela was close of helsinki anyway12:15
RST38h11.1 is pretty dense12:15
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thuxthat is close12:16
thuxtoo close12:17
* towo offers 2500 per square kilometer.12:17
RST38htowo: in what packaging?12:18
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blafaseltowo: Same here ;) I like it that way12:19
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towoRST38h: In urban metropolitan packaging, of course.12:19
maximb_anyone having problems with flashing custom kernel into n810 (after update available via appmanager)?12:20
maximb_or is i only me12:21
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blafaseltowo: The funny thing is.. Our numbers match, since we're talking about the same city.12:22
blafaselAt least according to your channel list.12:22
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* towo whoisses himself12:24
towoYes, indeed.12:24
RST38htowo: I would prefer deep frozen12:25
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towoRST38h: Ah, sorry, we're 50m over null and a tightly-packed and warm city located in a special weather zone... We'll take sometime to freeze off, we didn't even have real snow all the last years. *g*12:26
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RST38htowo <-- making people jealous12:27
towoNah, we'd actually like some snow here.12:28
towoBut it's just a no-go.12:28
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blafaselNice, the wikipedia article on cologne even includes my workspace ;)12:29
Stskeepsthe street? :P12:31
blafaselNa, image of the building12:31
Fatalfarina house?12:32
Fatalst martin church?12:32
XTLThe bridge?12:32
Fatalthe canal?12:32
blafaselHehe. No, IT stuff. The tower12:32
Fatalthe cathedral?12:32
XTLRiverboat. Yarrr!12:32
JaffaMorning, all12:32
* Jaffa is back at work after the fun of last week :-(12:32
blafaselFatal: Yep12:32
X-FadeJaffa: Uhu ;)12:33
JaffaX-Fade: I was having some thoughts about the section issue on the train home. Will try and write them up12:34
towoblafasel: Oooh.12:34
Stskeepswarning: downgrading hal from 0.5.11-3 to 0.5.11~git20080402-1osso1.12:34
Stskeepshow on earth is a ~ version a downgrade? isn't it at like 127 in the ascii table?12:35
* towo is sitting over in Lindenthal, at the university.12:35
X-FadeJaffa: Ah, good. I stumbled into some nice sections today while debuging #3549. People are just making things up as they go :(12:35
towoblafasel: Ah, that obscure Koeln LUG group..12:36
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towoblafasel: Oh, I see, seems you got rid of the old odd weights there.12:36
blafaseltowo: I'm only a lurker there.12:38
towoblafasel: Mhhm.12:38
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towoblafasel: What I think is most interesting is that we have no shared contacts at all according to Xing. ;)12:47
_berto_( now someone should say "let's go!" )12:47
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EgShi there. is there a way to access the root fs of a n810 when it fails to boot properly?12:50
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EgSor is my only option to reflash it12:50
blafaseltowo: I don't use that site at all, actually. Everything there's probably quite outdated ;)12:51
towoblafasel: Heh. Just did some digging, that's all.12:52
StskeepsEgS: do you have bootmenu with usb recovery?12:52
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EgSStskeeps: dunno, how can I check it? I've been looking for recovery methods but didn't really came up with something12:53
jsmanrique_berto_: ;-)12:53
StskeepsEgS: well you can maybe find someone here with a jffs2 initfs image that can enable you to12:54
Stskeepsotherwise there's ways to dump the mtd if you need something from there12:54
EgSmtd is the internal flash?12:54
Stskeepsi think it's possible, atleast, but a bootmenu with usb recovery is prolly easier :P12:55
EgSwell let's put it like this: there's no important stuff on it, so reflashing wouldn't be an issue... but if there is an easy way to get access to the root fs, I would go for it as it's an easy fix in a file I messed with when I was drunk last night... -.-12:55
Stskeepsthen i'd say you should reflash and then install fanoush's bootmenu for next time :P12:56
EgSwhere can I get it? garage?12:56
EgSthanks! sounds great12:57
EgSbtw: when I'm at reflashing anyways... can you point me to a decent howto on repartitioning and changing the fs type to something that supports sym links?12:58
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Stskeeps has a lot of diff stuff12:58
_berto_jsmanrique: are you this one? ;-)   ->
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EgSStskeeps: thanks for all the help!12:59
solmumahasomeone should take some summit pictures and gimp some nicks into them13:02
Meksome group-photo similar to those that are usually taken at Akademy with searchable names would have been nice too...13:04
X-FadeWell, at least now I know Mek can play Wii Tennis quite well ;)13:05
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solmumahai only recognize some of the maemo celebrity persons, like _berto_13:06
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mxb_pass to Nokias sysupdate site is now found ;)13:07
X-Fademxb_: Old news, really..13:08
mxb_but no info on maemo.org13:08
mxb_so I had to do it myself13:08
mxb_even if i asked here....noone would answer13:09
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povbotmxb_: Error: "!" is not a valid command.13:09
pierluxMaemo Summit attendees: join this group !
mxb_now i have to download a really new image13:10
mxb_it breaks custom kernel flash13:12
mxb_or flasher needs an update13:12
_berto_solmumaha: celebrities? haha :D13:15
_berto_i'm not a celebrity :)13:15
solmumahano need to be modest13:20
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_berto_no, modest is the e-mail client :D13:27
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lardmanCan Flickr add names to faces? Give us a headstart on next time/those we didn't recognise13:43
X-Fadelardman: You can add a note to a certain region of the picture.13:44
lardmanThanks X-Fade13:44
_berto_or just a comment telling who is who13:44
jsmanrique_berto_: yest, I am that one13:49
jsmanriqueI think that flickr has tools to markup who is in the photo13:49
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mgedminnot all photos in that group allow you to add notes13:49
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jsmanriqueI know13:52
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lardmanI'm sure I wandered around ignoring people I usually talk to on IRC just because I couldn't see their tags :)13:53
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hrwlardman: common problem13:54
lardmanhrw: Need an attendee list with mug-shot13:54
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* lcuk_work smiles cos hes got a great idea to do just that :)13:55
* lcuk_work envisions himself meeting a lot more people in the near future and must be able to put faces with names13:56
_berto_jsmanrique: that photo is not mine, I have no permissions to add notes13:56
lcuk_workhi lardman / hrw :)13:56
jsmanrique_berto_: I know, I know13:56
lardmanhi lcuk_work13:57
* lcuk_work keeps nervously checking mail13:57
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johnxhmm...seem to be getting some screen streaking on my n800...14:00
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lcuk_workoh no, lardman i gather you cannot get the pm i just sent14:01
lcuk_workim on unsecured account though14:02
konttoriHey, anyone worked on making hildondesktop applets on python ?14:02
konttoriI'm rying to figure out why my applet crashes if I add a button to it.14:02
konttoribut it runs fine if I have just labels in it.14:02
hrwhildon desktop applets...14:03
hrwI recently had to remove omweather as it crash too much14:04
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X-Fadechelli: It seems that your package now ended up in extras-devel?14:04
chelliX-Fade: yes, thank you for the hint, i just marked #3549 as resolved ;-)14:05
X-Fadechelli: At the summit I announced that will add checks. I guess that they would catch things like that too.14:06
chelliX-Fade: and i also notified John Costigain, that he can retry maemo-mapper too :)14:06
X-Fadechelli: Great. Thanks!14:06
chelliX-Fade: i listened to your talk at the summit, i think this is really the way to go, do you plan to send thse warnings by mail?14:07
X-Fadechelli: We'll add another log file to the build dir first.14:07
X-Fadechelli: Don't want to annoy people while we test these things.14:08
hrwheh.. I did not linked X-Fade with real name14:08
lardmanX-Fade: I'm still interested in the error reporting tool if you have any info/links to code, etc.14:09
X-Fadelardman: Working on that.14:09
chelliX-Fade: as i told you at the summit, i think a service like the debian PTS ( for an example) would be really, really great for maemo-packages - on such a page you can also show non-critical problems with the packages14:10
thuxjohnx: how to remove x from deblet beta3? what is package name? tried xorg and xserver-xorg14:10
X-FadeNeed to work on this one first:
johnxthux, probably xomap ?14:10
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* johnx makes a raid on long term memory14:10
johnxthux, you should really try Stskeeps' new debian installer though14:11
thuxis better?14:11
johnxoh yeah14:11
X-Fadechelli: Can I convince you to move all your packages to extras and close your repo? :)14:11
johnxit smooths out all my rough hacks14:11 has an article about a 5-second boot14:12
chelliX-Fade: yes, you can - will work on that :)14:12
mgedmina couple of kernel hackers made an eeepc boot into a fully-loaded xfce desktop in 5 seconds flat14:12
X-Fadechelli: Great!14:12
mgedmina n810 takes how long to boot?14:12
johnxbut who ever turns it all the way off except to reboot?14:12
StsN800pulling the battery counts?14:13
mgedminbetter ask who has never had the n810 crash and reboot on him when he was in a big hurry?14:13
mgedminI, for one, won't be raising my hand14:14
johnxI don't crash my n800 when I'm in a hurry14:14
johnxonly when I have time to play14:14
johnxanyways, the crash-bug should be fixed. I'm happy with booting being an exceptional case14:14
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johnxlong boot times are motivation to make it not crash :D14:15
lardmanboot doesn't take that long, my Psion 5 took about the same time14:15
* lardman isn't fond of having to reboot a la Windows - e.g. OMWeather requires a reboot for some reason14:16
mgedminjohnx: call me when you're done making my n810 never run out of memory and crash14:17
mgedminwhen a user is already frustrated from the crash, making him wait 45 seconds will not leave a good impression14:18
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johnxmgedmin, for n in $(pidof mgedmin's programs) ; do kill $n ; echo problem solved ; done14:18
lardmanmgedmin: does it crash when it's oom?14:18
mgedminit freezes, then it reboots, yes14:19
lardmanwhat's the cause of that I wonder, what critical component has crashed and therefore taken the system down?14:19
mgedmincould be the watchdog just because the system is busy swapping and not doing anything else14:19
hrwmgedmin: 5s boot on eeepc was done by intel guys14:19
lardmanok, so that's an issue, watchdog should have higher pri then14:19
RST38hboo all14:22
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lardmanandre___: yes, I'll take a look at updating the patch14:29
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andre___lardman, cool. should remember that this is your irc nick :)14:29
lardmanandre___: I have the same problems, don't worry :)14:30
* andre___ is cleaning up "system software/general" bugs14:30
RST38hmgedmin: [sadistically] running out of memory is what you get for using MicroB14:30
RST38h[browserd actually]14:30
mgedminmaemo-mapper, actually14:30
mgedminI blame sqlite14:30
RST38hsqlite is also a good candidate14:31
RST38hlots of reasons for it to gobble memory14:32
lardmanit's poor form that a user app having an oom can bring the system down14:32
mgedminthat's linux for you14:32
lardmanwell it should be fixable14:32
Jaffalardman: interesting mail on maemo-dev14:32
lardmanJaffa: thought I'd get the ball rolling14:33
lardmanJaffa: missed you leaving, get back ok?14:33
Jaffalardman: yeah: practised my German ("Ich habe reservieeren lassen") on the train to some Dutch girl sat in my seat. She thought I was German and then carried on talking to her friends in English after I sat down. Very entertaining :)14:34
JaffaHmm, expense procedure looks like fun with lots of picture taking ;-)14:35
RST38hlardman: that's linux14:35
lardmanJaffa: lol14:36
RST38htoy unix, just like real one, but made of recycled bits14:36
lardmanRST38h: well it's a bit of a critical problem, there must be some way of addressing it14:37
JaffaInterestingly, my problems with modest & RSS auto-updates which went away at the summit are now back I'm in the UK. Which suggests that #3335 and #3542 are connected and somehow related to the network you're connecting to.14:39
lardmanjohnx: yes, with a whitelist to avoid killing system components14:40
johnxyup, that's what google's doing with android14:41
lardmanis there an oom-killer on the tablets? Is it used?14:41
Stskeepsyes, there is14:41
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johnxI believe most desktops will kill off processes eventually, but only when it gets really bad and the system is already dragged to a crawl14:41
johnxI think the watchdog gives up long before that14:41
johnx~lart watchdog14:41
lardmanso we have a contention between the oom-killer lag and the watchdog timer14:42
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lardmanone option would be for the watchdog to trigger the oom-killer before it reboots14:42
johnxdon't take my statements on this without a grain of salt, however14:42
* lardman gets out the cellar14:43
johnxjeez, you don't need *that* much. the salt shaker on the table should be fine...14:43
RST38hJaffa: I traced those down14:44
XTLYay for cultural gaps14:45
johnxthere's a neat intro to oom-killer14:45
RST38hJaffa: Modest error is due to unstable connection14:45
lardmandsme will soon be open, does that contain the watchdog functionality?14:45
RST38hJaffa: When connection is broken while modest is checking email it gets stuckat futex14:45
johnxit should already be doing the right thing if it had a chance14:45
RST38hJaffa: See and comment on bug
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lardmando the reboots only happen to those using swap?14:46
RST38hlardman: it is less critical than adding new eyecandy to Gnome14:46
RST38hor KDE14:46
lardmanRST38h: I like both, but only the nitty-gritty14:46
RST38hlardman: for reliable base OS, use BSD :)14:47
johnxlardman, it can happen to anyone who has a process go berserk on them or just runs lots of tasks simultaneously14:47
johnxRST38h, for something that supports the omap framebuffer, use linux?14:47
lardmanjohnx: beserk process should be killed somehow anyway14:47
johnxlardman, *should*14:48
JaffaRST38h: it seems odd that when at work and home modest will so reliably fail at auto-updating, even when everything else (iuncluding long-running SSH connections) have no problem. And that both RSS & modest would be affected by the same bug.14:48
lardmanwell, that's something interesting to look at then :)14:48
Stskeepsi'm kinda wondering why people on embedded devices aren't taking more into consideration stuff like SIGSTOP/SIGCONT14:48
Stskeepsis a brilliant way to make a process sleep14:49
RST38hJaffa: it is most likely an intermittent connection break14:49
RST38hJaffa: SSH is pretty reliable in those cases: it won't break if there is no traffic at the moment of a temporary disconnect14:49
lardmanStskeeps: sleep but retain its memory; the watchdog should be higher priority anyway14:49
RST38hjohnx: Well, I don't think adding omap fb support is THAT difficult14:49
JaffaRST38h: interesting. I'll comment anyway14:50
RST38hjohnx: just wasn't any need to port BSD to the tablets14:50
* RST38h often puts computer on standby, wakes it in 15 minutes, and the SSH session is still there14:50
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johnxRST38h, I'm just saying that linux has the leg up on BSD in terms of hardware support. Anyways, Nokia's watchdog is largely to blame in this case I think. BSD would be just as "unstable" with the same watchdog in place14:52
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RST38hjohnx: wouldn't exhaust memory14:52
lardmanthat might not be the cause here though14:53
RST38hjohnx: anyways, one plays cards he has been dealt. In our case, those are with tux on them14:53
* RST38h has seen desktop linux machines die after exhausting memory.14:53
johnxRST38h, poorly coded user apps exist on both systems. If they gobble up memory and the watchdog kicks in before the oom-killer, what do you expect?14:53
X-FadeVery nice impression of the Summit:
lardmanHmm, when a task dies, dsp_dld for example, is there a rule somewhere for how to restart it>14:54
X-FadeKaroliina did a great thing ;)14:54
johnxprobably the oom-killer needs to act earlier. I think google's tweaks for android were aimed at this14:54
RST38hjohnx: A decent OS should not let applications allocate more memory than it is safe to do14:54
lardmanjohnx: Or the watchdog should be more flexible14:54
RST38hjohnx: It would not require a special app to kill oom apps14:54
johnxRST38h, I was under the impression that all modern OSes are over-committing, including BSD14:55
lardmanInteresting some processes are protected then, that's fine14:56
* jsmanrique restarts session to complete scratchbox installation14:56
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lcuksorry about vanishin si14:56
lcukill let you know about what you asked14:57
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lcukdid you see KotCzarny returned?14:58
lardmanI wasn't paying attention, sorry14:59
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lcukheh :) was surprised when i saw him back in chan - instantly back to his old line count potential ;)14:59
lardmanlunch time (aka try new adsl modem and talk to TV engineer)15:01
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RST38hjohnx: not sure - have not been inside the kernel for years now15:01
johnxRST38h, google "oom-killer" BSD :)15:02
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johnxnow here's something more interesting: tweaking the overcommit settings15:06
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lirithe n810's audio jack is a standard 3.5mm jack right?15:31
johnxit support's a mic as well, though15:31
johnxnot just headphones15:31
lcukliri, standard size, but it has additional connectors for mic connection15:31
* Jaffa catches up on ITT for the first time since Thursday, 1am GMT.15:32
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liribecause I'm checking for an FM transmitter15:39
liriI was thinking about this -
glassany with a 3.5mm plug should do15:41
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glassliri: seems pretty bare-bones.. most have adjustable 88-106 mhz15:41
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liriglass: yeah but sound quality is really all that matters to me and this was has ratings of good sound quality15:42
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glasshaven't really noticed much difference in sound quality between models.. i got a belkin and my bro has some ipod attaching one15:43
glassthe bitchy thing is to find a good freq15:43
liriwell if the radio is like 2 meters away, how is that a problem?15:44
glassif the channel is occupied15:44
glassby a commercial channel15:44
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RST38hhow many commercial channels have you got?15:45
glasscrapload? even in finland15:45
glassand the thing is, they're on different freqs in different cities15:45
RST38hEvery 100kHz of the FM spectrum?!?15:45
liribut with frequency modulation, any station which transmits with the highest power gets cought15:45
RST38hactually, they interfere15:46
glassin practice it doesn't quite work like that15:46
liriso practically an fm transmitter which is 2 meters away from the antenna should have a higher power15:46
glassyep.. resulting in noise and mixing up15:46
RST38hFM is no silver bullet and that is why they keep distance between stations at 100kHz15:46
glassliri: also cars hull etc affect15:46
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liriright, but the point is that there should be no issues with that15:47
liribut it's one of those things that I'm just going to have to buy and test15:47
glassalso 107 sounds a bit high15:47
johnxall the best stations are over 107 :)15:48
glassliri: also i find battery operation quite useful15:48
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lardmanah, finally, broadband working again15:49
glasscassette adapters sound better imho though(and are more practical and elegant) if your car has one..15:49
tigerti have the griffin itrip15:50
tigertits ok15:50
tigertsure there is a noticeable quality crap factor15:50
tigertbut it works15:50
liriI dont have a casette adapter, nowdays it's all about cds.15:50
* aquatix has aux in on his car stereo15:50
lardmantigert: yeah, it is radio though15:50
tigertits to be expected15:51
tigertit works ok though15:51
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liriaux input is probably the best solution15:51
glassaux is best15:51
glassof course15:51
liriplugs straight into your car stereo15:51
aquatixthose cassette adapters are a nice second though15:51
RST38hSacked Indian workers beat chief exec to death15:56
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RST38h[not java programmers though]15:57
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lardmanRST38h: Is that because Java programmers don't get involved in the low level stuff? ;)16:04
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RST38hlardman: no, it's because nobody is giving them visas to where their execs are16:09
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melmothping X-Fade16:50
X-Fademelmoth: pong16:50
JaffaNice. p.m.o and /news/ both 404ing16:51
X-FadeJaffa: Sure, service break.16:51
melmothYo X-Fade this is about bz373216:51
melmothi do not understand how it can be a duplicate of bz3548 as this is related to application that never were in chinook in the first place16:52
X-Fademelmoth: I have already corrected it :)16:52
melmothmay be i do not underestand bz3548 though16:52
X-Fademelmoth: Was sleepy me ;)16:52
melmothok :)16:52
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melmothlooks better. Thanks.16:53
JaffaX-Fade: ah, thought I saw an email about that, but couldn't remember16:53
X-FadeBtw, we have discussed 3732 on the summit and when we fix the promoter to properly sigh and upload to the queue, this will be fixed.16:53
melmothmeanwhile, i host the .install file on a separate machine.16:54
melmothI guess there will aslo be a script of some sort to regenerate all missing .instal files ?16:55
X-Fademelmoth: You can use the downloads section for that.16:55
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X-Fademelmoth: Just edit the application entry and add the code for the .install there.16:55
X-Fademelmoth: Although we are in read-only mode at the moment, while we move to other servers.16:55
melmothFair enough. i ll try that out once the migration is completed16:56
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aladdshi all17:03
johnxhey aladds17:03
johnxhow's it going?17:03
aladdsnot too bad17:03
aladdsjust making a cable to hook usb to my 77017:03
johnxah fun stuff17:03
aladdsshould i hook power both ways?17:03
aladdsor just to the device?17:04
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johnxthere are a couple guides I think17:04
* johnx has an n800 and some zauruses, but no 77017:04
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aladdsah ok17:05
johnxgoogle 770 usb host cable17:05
johnxthere are a couple promising articles17:06
aladdssome zauruses :P17:06
johnxa 5500 and a c100017:06
aladdsah ok17:06
aladdssome sounds like more than 2 to me :P17:06
johnxI'm open to more :)17:06
johnxa c3000 might be nice17:06
aladdswith a HD?17:06
johnxI'd swap the HD for a CF card17:07
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aladdscable made :)17:10
johnxthat was fast O_o17:10
* aladds is skilled in the art of soldering ;)17:11
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aladdsnow how do i ned to adjust software?17:11
aladdsi have a usb keyboard here17:11
aladdsok, done the thing with the flasher17:16
* aladds notices that the caps lock light works17:17
aladdsnotes doesn't seem to recognise the thing though17:17
GeneralAntillesThere's a dupe.17:19
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: ah, that reminds me - need to upload my mud-builder presentation to the wiki. The fact that I counted 10s of garage projects which solely exist to fork the build process and slightly patch one or two files was a point of one of the slides ;-)17:23
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hrwJaffa: garage projects... someone should really clean them17:28
GeneralAntillesFind all the ones that have been created, but haven't done anything.17:29
hrwthere are 'projects' like "xyz for maemo" which only cover xyz built for maemo17:29
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GeneralAntillesemail the admins to find out if they're still alive.17:29
lardmanGet people to give better details of the projects would be good17:29
hrw for example is useless17:30
aladdsStskeeps: if you're there, would i have to disable usb network on deblet to use a usb keyboard?17:31
GeneralAntilleslardman, that certainly sounds like volunteering to write a description for to me!17:31
lardmanaladds: yes17:31
lardmanaladds: unless you use a usb-ethenet dongle17:32
aladdsi don't no17:32
aladdsand i havn't got one either..17:32
lardmanGeneralAntilles: no, you must have misheard me ;)17:32
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aladdsalthough i do have a belkin wifi dongle, but it's MIMO, so probably doesn't have linux drivers....17:32
lardmanwow, the community can save itself on SCM17:33
johnxaladds, what does dmesg say?17:34
aladdsfor deblet?17:34
johnxfor whatever you're trying to use the usb keyboard in :)17:34
johnxis it acknowledging the keyboard? saying it needs to much power?17:35
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aladdsjohnx: woah17:36
aladdsdmesg is full of usb errors17:36
johnxwell, there's a start17:36
* aladds wonders if his cable is correct17:37
aladdsi cut an A-miniB in half17:37
aladdsand used the miniB half17:37
aladdsi guess it could be wired differently17:37
johnxuhm, where's your external 5v coming from?17:38
JaffaGeneralAntilles: I'm going to - at some point very soon - followup to your email with the various council suggestions/discussions at the summit17:38
aladds9v battery and a 780517:38
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aladdsthe keyboard's lights come on, the caps lock works17:38
johnxwell that sounds fine17:38
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, sounds good.17:39
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lardmanGeneralAntilles: too long though17:39
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lardmanbbiab, going to find coffee17:40
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aladdsjohnx: if host mode is set, should the keyboard just work?17:41
johnxaladds, it should17:41
hrwJamie Bennett - name sounds familiar but who he is?17:41
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Jaffahrw: baloo. Did the videoing and stuff at the summit. Stood for the council.17:41
johnxis it the same error repeating? could you put it on pastebin (if it's convenient)?17:41
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johnxhey Stskeeps, I have matchbox-keyboard acting like a dock in openbox17:45
aladdsit's semi working17:45
aladdsenter opens and closes the hildon keyboard17:45
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aladdsbut i can't actually type anything17:45
johnxerr...hmm os200617:45
aladdsarrow keys work too17:46
johnxwonder if there *was* something else for keyboards17:46
GeneralAntilleslardman|afk, "" tsk tsk. . . .17:46
Stskeepsjohnx: woop17:46
Stskeepsjohnx: obligatory screenshot :)17:46
johnxStskeeps, there's a commented section that was already there :)17:46
aladdsit seems to be doing only what it can anyway17:46
johnxone's docked to the top of the screen -_-;17:46
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aladdsF4 opens the menu17:47
JaffaGeneralAntilles: I did pastebin's "correct a typo thing" and it gave me a new URL. Bah.17:47
aladdsH5 is home17:47
Stskeepsjohnx: could be worse..17:47
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johnxStskeeps, ok, it's worse17:47
johnxwindow title bars show up behind it17:47
aladdsi wonder if this keyboard just has a wierd keymap17:49
Stskeepsstill its good to know how its done so maybe we can prod h-i-m with it17:49
aladdsit is a "nano" one17:49
Stskeepsi guess MB might be better than h-i-m though as it supports not only gtk..17:49
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johnxStskeeps, also, it can support multiple languages with scim17:49
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Stskeepsjohnx: did you succeed with my installer btw?17:51
johnxrunning that version of debian now17:51
johnxdid you change something with network-manager?17:51
johnxit's working really well now17:51
Stskeepsi recompiled cx3110 sanely17:52
Stskeepsbtw apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade and you'll get a more tablet suited HAL17:52
Stskeeps(bumped the version so it overrides debian one)17:53
Stskeepsit is so much easier to push updates now :P17:53
* Jaffa also wants to do a blog post summarising everything hinted at for the next, and future, tablets - but'll wait for to reawaken17:53
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johnxI wonder why it lies so badly about its size...17:55
Stskeepsjohnx: hehe, we're getting there i guess17:56
johnxwell, at least it's doing something different17:56
Stskeepstop does make more sense than bottom i guess cos there's a taskbar17:56
johnxI'd be inclined to disagree17:56
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johnxif it's on top you can't see what you're typing17:57
johnxespecially if you're using thumbs17:57
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johnxI actually like OS2008's task bar on the left, keyboard on the bottom most of the time17:58
Stskeepsyeah, me too17:58
johnxgood compromise for mashing with fingers or stylus17:58
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johnxif I can make matchbox-keyboard give itself a WM_CLASS I think openbox could mangle it better17:58
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Stskeepsso you reached the end of making h-i-m work possible?18:06
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johnxwell, without hacking the source, yes, I think so18:06
Stskeepsi'm leaving for the rest of the week for dublin tomorrow, probably won't be on18:06
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johnxalright, I'll poke along at this, see what I can get done18:07
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johnxhave fun in dublin :)18:07
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Stskeepsbringing my tablet with maemo mapper and trying out suspend-to-ram to avoid using so much battery ( from
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johnxso if I see news about you being airlifted off a mountainside after getting lost, I'll know doesn't work?18:10
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Stskeepsi don't have gps either18:11
Stskeepsso it's mainly for google streets :P18:11
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aladdsheh, even delete orks18:14
aladdsStskeeps: how can i get my usb keyboard to work properly in OS2006?18:14
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aladdsoh nevermind it's working now18:15
aladdshow odd :P18:15
aladdsi have to use enter in x-term though, not return :-/18:16
aladds(which on this little guy, is Fn-Return)18:16
hrwaladds: run 'xev' to check does it notice keys at all and if yes then does it have keymap for it18:16
Stskeepsaladds: in OS2006? no clue, does it work in deblet? :P18:17
hrwaladds: I would not be suprised if you have working keyboard without working keymap18:17
aladdsStskeeps: i think i need to disable the usb ethernet thing first in deblet?18:17
aladdshrw: it works in X-Term18:17
Stskeepsaladds: yeah18:17
Stskeepsaladds: and i guess that's a bad thing at this point :P can't both be host and gadget18:18
aladdsheh true18:18
aladdsunless i could get a wifi or ethernet dongle to work with it?18:18
Stskeepsif you have a powered usb hub :P18:19
aladdshrw: which package supplies xev?18:19
aladdsStskeeps: i do yes18:19
Stskeepsaladds: we didn't even try wifi yet though18:19
aladdsshould it work?18:19
Stskeepson non-WPA/WEP i guess18:19
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aladdsi use MAC filtering18:19
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hrwaladds: x11-utils18:20
Stskeeps then edit /etc/network/interfaces i guess18:20
aladds(and i love in the middle of nowhere)18:20
troyhwhat is the best way to utilize the extra space from an external mmc on the n810? clone and boot from it?18:20
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aladdsStskeeps: will enabling usb host mode hose gadget?18:22
aladdswell, *should* it?18:23
Stskeepsaladds: you have to find out how to do it on 770 cos i dunno :P18:23
crashanddiewhat the hell is wrong with infobot?18:23
aladdsbecause it seems to do....18:23
johnxaladds, I believe it's one or the other on 77018:23
johnxand you switch with flasher18:23
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, diabetic coma.18:23
crashanddielack of positive electrons?18:23
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Stskeepsaladds: ./flasher --enable-usb-host-mode18:24
aladdsyou mean disable :P18:24
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Stskeepsno, enable18:25
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aladdsi need gadget to get root18:25
Stskeepsthought you were plugging in stuff :P18:26
aladdsroot terminal asks for a password on deblet18:26
aladdsfor which i need a keyboard18:26
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aladdsoh wait18:26
aladdsso if it's in host mode that disables gadget?18:26
aladdsok then :P18:27
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* aladds boots deblet with host mode enabled, and a usb keyboard attached18:28
aladdsit's a really cute little keyboard18:28
aladdsit's about 1.5x as wide as the 77018:28
crashanddiemardi__, who are you?18:28
Stskeepsaladds: you have the 770 connected to a powered usb hub?18:29
aladdsStskeeps: no...18:30
aladdsi built a little battery box18:30
aladdsbut i have a powered hub if i need it18:30
aladdscaps lock on the keyboard works18:31
aladdsbut the xterm i just opened can't see it18:31
Italodanceoh n900 is on the way:
Stskeepsyou might want to upgrade hal as that one is a little more tablet friendly18:31
Stskeepsit made the keyboard work on n81018:31
crashanddieItalodance, old news18:31
crashanddieItalodance, and it won't be "n900"18:31
X-FadeItalodance: That is no news. That was a presentation at the summit.18:32
aladdsso i need to disable host, connect to internet via gadget and apt-get upgrade && apt-get dit-upgrade?18:32
crashanddiemardi__, ?18:32
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Stskeepsaladds: aye18:32
Italodancecrashanddie do u have more?18:32
Stskeepsupdate and dist-upgrade18:32
aladdsoh yeah18:33
crashanddieItalodance, I have plenty18:33
crashanddieplenty what?18:33
aladds'swhat i meant :P18:33
Italodancei connected a mini slim a4tech keyboard to my n800 and it worked like a boss18:34
Italodancei played games :)18:34
aladdshaha nice :)18:36
aladdsthis little guy has a very strange layout though18:36
aladds= is at the bottom right18:36
Stskeepsit works?18:36
aladds[ and ] are to the right of the keyboard18:36
aladdsit works on my mac :P18:37
Stskeepsoh :P18:37
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aladds770 is still updating18:37
aladdshow odd18:38
aladdsscroll lock and pause are brightness down and up :P18:38
aladdsit's nicer to type on than my belkin IR though18:40
GeneralAntillesF14 and F1518:40
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aladdsbut no F13 :P18:40
GeneralAntillesPrint Screen18:40
aladdsoh right18:41
aladdswell that means18:41
aladdsacross the top18:41
aladdsi have esc, F1-818:41
aladdsthen F9/F11, F10/F1218:41
aladdsF14, F15 then F1318:41
aladdshow sane18:41
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aladdson the plus side though, there's no windows logos in sight :)18:43
aladdsi imagine they ran out of space :P18:43
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lardmanjust fyi as we were talking about oom this morning:
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gregoroviusfuck... again I left my n800 with a full charge, and I woke up to it dead18:57
johnxwhat did you leave running?18:57
gregoroviuspretty much nothing18:57
Kegetyswell, I once woke up with my n810 in reboot loop, had to reflash :)18:57
gregoroviusjust omweather & search on the desktop18:57
GeneralAntillesCorrupt internal card?18:57
gregoroviusit _seems_ to be fine, how could I check, GeneralAntilles?18:58
gregoroviusI have advanced-backlight and the cpu monitor on the statusbar as well18:58
johnxwell, my bets are on CPU monitor...but that's just me18:59
GeneralAntillesShouldn't be if it's up to date.18:59
gregoroviusit's up to date19:00
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GeneralAntillesgregorovius, fsck.vfat /dev/mmcblk0p119:01
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gregoroviusdo I have to umount /media/mmc2 first?19:03
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gregoroviusfsck didn't say anything unusual19:10
gregoroviusntp may be?19:12
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gregoroviusbleh, I gotta go... no music for me today on the road =/19:15
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johnxaha! now I realize why people were sad to lose sawfish in favor of metacity in gnome19:22
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Stskeepzis flexible?19:23
johnxoh yes19:23
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johnxI can rewrite it's window handling on the fly...once I catch up on lisp19:23
johnxanyways, it also handles matchbox-keyboard right by default19:24
Stskeepzwhat about HIM?19:24
Stskeepzscreenshot? ;)19:24
johnxhaven't tested19:24
johnxfine, fine19:24
johnxit's always screenshots with you :P19:24
Stskeepz<- screenshot whore19:24
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timelessfwiw. is back19:30
johnxI'll hack more on this tomorrow morning and try to figure out a way to script sawfish to "do the right thing"19:30
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johnxthere's hooks for *everything*19:30
timelessi'll try to get at least one updated index for it sometime soon19:30
timelessbut i have ~2 days to do that19:30
timelessbecause my vacation will start this week19:31
Stskeepzjohnx: and i guess it's easy to patch the config19:31
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GeneralAntillesLogo's ugly.19:31
johnxStskeepz, yeah, I think it should be easy to slip into the installer19:31
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johnxand it's not a worse WM than any other...just very, very different19:32
Stskeepzjohnx: well, should be possible in a postinst, since we're dealing in packages now :)19:32
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johnxwith the scripting features in this it should be totally doable to make h-i-m behave as well19:33
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Stskeepzhow intensive is it? i guess lisp is simple :P19:33
johnxto script? or memory/cpu intensive?19:34
johnxtop says 6%19:34
hrwjohnx: 770 or n8x0?19:34
johnxhrw, n8x019:34
johnx6% memory19:34
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johnxI'm not worried about CPU that much because there's not much space for users to move windows to...heh19:34
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johnxit's mainly just an advantage vs matchbox to let people have more than one window up at a time19:35
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Stskeepzbut sounds interesting when dealing with tablet environments.. flexibility certainly fits in my idea of how a tablet OS should act :P19:36
hrwStskeepz: tell that to people who start kde4 in maemo instead of instead of maemo...19:37
hrwor ones which use debian in chroot instead of natively19:37
Stskeepzoh, i applaud that too really19:38
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johnxok, typing on the default matchbox-keyboard layout is ridiculous19:41
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hrwStskeeps: I think that those persons just do not know what their tablets can do19:44
Stskeepshrw: sometimes switching between maemo and debian in chroot can be handy though19:44
Stskeepsso i see the reason for it19:44
Stskeepsit's just about having the choice to do things :)19:45
Stskeepsjohnx: i wonder if wicd is nicer for tablets..19:45
hrw'I want to run mc' 'here you have debian chroot with it' - nevermind that it will eat extra MB of ram... sd cards are cheap so swapping can be done...19:46
hrws/mc/any application19:46
johnxhrw, building mc is easy. building other programs for a limited subset of users isn't always worth the time19:46
Stskeepshrw: so you're against the mindset of hotpatching maemo instead of seeing the bigger problem? :P19:47
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hrwStskeeps: I just prefer to run whole system on device instead of whole system inside of other system19:47
Stskeepsthat's true19:48
johnxhrw, I'm with you on that19:48
Stskeepsmaemo would have been a hell lot more interesting if they followed debian updates really..19:48
hrwwill have to test 2.6.27-rc + slc45xx driver one day19:48
hrwStskeeps: maemo is not debian19:49
johnxI could still kick them for not staying closer to debian...19:49
hrwit is just loosely based on debian19:49
Stskeepsi know, but if it was a deriative, and it followed basic updates and didn't destroy some central libraries with their changes porting would be a lot easier :P19:49
hrwnot quite19:50
hrwthere are still lot of closed components which you would have to keep19:50
Stskeepsofcourse, and there are still spots for those in a debian deriative19:50
hrwbye guys19:51
hrwStskeeps: *if* nokia would provide them updated to new libs...19:51
johnx'later hrw19:51
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* Stskeeps tries out wicd on deblet20:04
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, ping.20:10
GeneralAntillesdneary, ping.20:10
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aladdsStskeeps: usb keyboard works20:12
Stskeepsaladds: woop20:16
* Stskeeps removes wicd again20:16
johnxStskeeps, it's that awesome?20:16
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Stskeepsjohnx: division by zero over a bad signal strength..20:17
dnearyGeneralAntilles: Yup?20:18
GeneralAntillesdneary, I was considering scheduling an IRC meeting to discuss content stuff.20:18
summatusmentisjohnx: thoughts on the G1? :)20:19
dnearyYes! I'd like that20:19
johnxsummatusmentis, it looks pretty nice20:19
dnearyI'm going to have a tough time with scheduling this week, unfortunately20:19
GeneralAntillesHow about next week?20:20
johnxlooking forward to open source android in october too20:20
dnearyI'm either taken (meetings, AGM of the crèche) or babysitting every evening this week20:20
dnearyNext week would be fine20:20
johnxandroid phone + something tablet-like would be a pretty killer combo I think20:20
dnearyAnd earlier in the day this week would be fine20:20
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summatusmentisjohnx: what would an android phone not have that a tablet would?20:21
johnxdecent sized/resolution screen compared to the current gen tablets20:21
johnxand future tablets (or tablet-like) things will have lots more power20:22
Stskeepsjohnx:;a=tree;f=packages/networkmanager/files;h=fec16c38441af2231428c4699950cd1678bdf840;hb=HEAD <- some patches we might consider using20:22
GeneralAntillesdneary, I think next week will probably be good, since it'll give people some time to plan for it20:22's the important part: it keeps my important device (phone) and my hackable device (tablet) physically separate...20:22
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summatusmentisjohnx: I kinda want a hackable phone, to be honest20:23
johnxStskeeps, oh, that does look nice20:23
GeneralAntillesdneary, I'll poke -community to see if there's a particular preference.20:23
johnxlight hacking would be ok20:23
crashanddiesummatusmentis, OpenMoko20:23
mgedminhackable *and* usable would be nice too20:24
johnxbut when I saw a hackable device that means it might be non-working as much as it's working20:24
crashanddiejohnx, I agree with you on that part, I love the fact I have a phone separated from my NIT20:24
crashanddieanyway, time for cancer20:24
Stskeepsjohnx: some of those patches would definately help battery life :P20:25
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mgedminwhat the...?20:28
mgedmin"Customers won't be able to attach the phone to a computer and use the phone like a modem to connect to the mobile network. It will come locked to T-Mobile, so users won't be able to connect the phone to another operator's mobile network."20:28
johnxnot really surprising20:29
johnxI'm sure tethering will be figured out in short order and just be considered "against contract"20:29
johnxas for a carrier's massively subsidized20:29
aladdsStskeeps: so how about trying wireless?20:29
dnearyPutting kids to bed - place falling down20:30
Stskeepsaladds: umac.ko and cx3110x.ko exists in /lib/modules/2.6.16-27/?20:31
Stskeeps(did we install tablet-wireless?)20:31
aladdsStskeeps: found a bug, screen dimming is only cancelled by tapping, not keyboard, but i can work around that for now20:31
aladdswe did yes20:31
Stskeepswell, apt-get install network-manager-gnome20:32
Stskeepsand network-manager-gnome-showinall20:32
aladdsah bugger20:32
Stskeepsgo edit /etc/network/interfaces instead20:32
aladdsany way to get it working before?20:32
Stskeepsand then ifup wlan020:32
aladdsno such device20:33
rm_youfinally something interesting locked to a carrier I actually USE20:33
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GeneralAntillesYou can't tether your tablet, though.20:33
rm_youi do need a new phone <_<20:34
mgedminthe sw is open source20:34
mgedminshouldn't take long for someone to add tethering... I hope20:34
johnxGeneralAntilles, I'll bet tethering shows up within the week it's released20:35
rm_youhow much does this thing cost?20:35
GeneralAntilles$180 with 2-year20:35
johnx$179 on contract20:35
rm_youI think my phone20:36
rm_youerr... my current phone/contract thing is about up20:36
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* StsN800 curses his home isp20:37
aladdsi know how you feel20:37
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StsN800(thank god for gprs)20:38
NaviThe only thing I curse is johnx's mother20:38
johnxNavi, hey. long time no see :D20:38
johnxbeen dead?20:39
aladdsStsN800: but ifup wlan0 didn't work20:39
NaviI'm usually on freenode20:39
Navijust not this channel20:39
NaviEver since KotCzarny left, it's been boring20:39
GeneralAntillesNavi fails hard at idling.20:39
NaviHowever, since he's back, might as well come back and bother him as well20:39
johnxNavi, still using your tablet?20:39
Navi'o course20:40
StsN800aladds, paste me wlan0 part of interfaces in private20:40
StsN800(or on pastebin)20:40
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johnxaladds, would you run ifconfig wlan0 ?20:41
NaviI'm hungry for some Ramen20:41
Navijohnx, email some to me20:41
johnxNavi, I'll have to put it on the scanner. one sec20:42
johnxyou have a 3D ramen printer, right?20:42
aladdsjohnx: Device not found20:42
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Navijohnx, of course20:42
johnxStsN800, 770 wireless is pretty different20:44
johnxNavi, well it should be printing by now...but if you're 3D printer isn't up to date, I can't be held responsible...20:44
StsN800yeah, though i thought i built the right driver20:44
NaviI needs ah comic readah20:45
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NaviGeneralAntilles, make one for me in perl20:45
johnxNavi, I've been using image viewer on os2008 and gqview in debian/angstrom20:45
Navijohnx, lol20:46
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NaviI've been using evince for my cbz/cbrs20:46
Navibut evince is a hog20:46
johnxNavi, I read like 8 volumes of deathnote in image viewer20:46
johnxit's not bad really20:47
NaviI know20:47
Naviimage viewer is fine20:47
NaviI like having continuous scroll and a constant fit-to-width though20:47
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johnxgqview will do that on debian/angstrom20:48
NaviEvince likes to cache images to the point where malloc fails and totally segfaults20:48
NaviHaven't used debian on the tablet in a while :P20:48
NaviLike, since you last saw me :P20:49
t_s_ohmm, that may explain why i have evince die on me when i read image heavy pdf's...20:49
NaviIt'll cache pages as well20:49
NaviOnly way to avoid that is to turn off continuous scroll20:49
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Navibut then you're fucked when you can't turn the page in full screen mode20:49
johnxNavi, Stskeeps made a new fancy installer. It's pretty awesome these days now that someone un-lazy is putting work into it :P20:49
Navijohnx, Hah20:49
Naviinstallers are lame20:50
t_s_oNavi: top or bottom tap, special mode and left or right dpad...20:50
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Navit_s_o, really?20:50
Navididn't know that20:50
Navithanks :D20:50
t_s_owhat bothers me more is that there is no simple way to jump to page number while full screen...20:50
StskeepzNavi: the installer is lame but the packages and methods that it installs is cool :P20:50
johnxNavi, this one does a genuine debian debootstrap and leaves you with a real install, not some half-assed preconfigured tarball like I was doing20:51
t_s_oNavi: special mode use the +- to do page flips...20:51
Navit_s_o, mmk20:51
t_s_oand is accessed by hitting center dpad20:51
johnxanyways, I need to catch some sleep. 'night all. I'll look at sawfish/matchbox-keyboard tomorrow morning (afternoon at this rate)20:51
NaviI always wondered what that was20:51
Navijohnx, night20:51
t_s_oworks ok for most ebooks that dont try to stuff to much text onto individual pages. just rotate left or right one time ;)20:52
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NaviI just use the PDF viewer that comes with the tablet for viewing pdfs20:53
Navievince really is a memory/cpu whore with large files20:53
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* moontige1 shoots moontiger20:54
Navi/msg nickserv ghost moontiger <password>20:54
StsN800the moment i disconnect my gprs cos my home net is up again.. it goes down.20:54
Navipassword is optional if moontige1 is linked to moontiger20:54
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moontigerthnx :)20:55
moontigerbeen a while since i used irc much20:56
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keesjI am trying to understand why PulseAudio is stated as a esd+alsa replacement.21:12
keesjis oss back in the picture (open sound system) or are there PulseAudio kernel drivers thingies?21:13
FatalI switched to OSS on my desktop, alsa annoyed me for the last time21:14
RST38hwhat is the problem with alsa anyway?21:19
RST38hIsn't it available with the same API as OSS?21:19
keesjRST38h: no , oss (As I know it) is far more simple21:19
keesj(API wise)21:20
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RST38hbut they both support /dev/dsp right?21:20
keesjalsa support /dev/dsp using a emultation layer21:20
keesj"real" alsa doesn't use /dev/dsp but something like /dev/snd/card021:21
keesjdsp had fixed amount of mixers while alsa goes whild21:21
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RST38hwell ac97 allows up to 4 streams in hw21:23
RST38halthough somebody at this channel complained that HIS ac97 hw only has 121:23
derfI've often gotten much better results using ALSA's OSS emulation than using native ALSA support directly.21:23
derfBecause most programmers don't know how to use ALSA.21:24
keesjderf: alsa IS complex, and really almost requires you to use the userland alsalib and tools (alsa-utils)21:26
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keesjI don't think many people (not only programmers) know how to use ALSA21:27
derfI agree.21:27
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derfBut I mean, software written to use OSS is much more likely to work than software written to use ALSA, even if you're just using the OSS emulation layer.21:27
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* RST38h once again asks the Deep Ones to make Nokia implement /dev/dsp (or pcm or audio) in Maemo21:29
RST38hNo need to use crufty linux shit21:29
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FatalI understand your reluctance to use something linux specific on a linux tablet...21:30
Fatal(hey, I'm all for it, there is no love lost between me and alsa)21:30
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RST38hyou do not understand my reluctance to figure out dozens of badly documented, quirky APIs21:31
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RST38hWhy did NetBSD people implement /dev/pcm0 from scratch and forgot about this problem forever?21:32
StsN800aladds, any luck?21:32
aladdsStsN800: nope :(21:32
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keesjjust using /dev/dsp is not enough (you need to multiplex sound etc) and this is a real weakness of the "simple" aproach21:34
RST38hkeesj: I do not need to multiplex sound21:35
StsN800aladds, did you cp in umac too?21:35
RST38hI want to hear it play.21:35
aladdsStsN800: i did yes21:35
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StsN800aladds, thats really weird21:35
RST38hIf you mean mixing, a lot of audio hardware will do it internally. If not, it is not that difficult to do.21:36
||cwRST38h: if you have multiple things with the sound channels open, even if they aren't actively playing sound, you are still multiplexing21:36
||cwa lot of audio "hardware" these days is actually software21:36
||cwit's done in the drivers21:36
||cwand multiplexing and mixing are effectively the same thing21:37
aladdsStsN800: yeah21:37
||cwmixing implies that you are controlling the levels of each input, multiplexing implies that you are leting each input do it's own thing and just combining the streams21:38
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lardmanI take it all back, nvidia-xconfig is good21:40
GeneralAntillesGood god21:40
lardmanderf: ping21:41
||cwprice is too high though21:41
derflardman: Pong.21:41
lardmanderf: There are a fair few copies in find_spectral_pitch(), is it worth moving the whole fn?21:41
RST38hGeneral: Yes, but what should I do with the 8GB card?=)21:43
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lardmanderf: not that the copies make much odds, just that the entire fn could probably be optimised21:45
derflardman: I am thinking maybe we should just move the whole codec overall.21:45
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* lardman is scared21:45
derfThat way the data transfer is on the order of a few dozen bytes in, and it could in theory output directly to the soundcard.21:45
lardmanunfortunately we lack a way of direct output atm21:46
derfCan the DSP sample directly from the mic?21:46
derfOh, I thought that was already worked out.21:46
lardmanno, needs some reverse engineering21:46
lardmanregarding the mic, again, needs some reverse engineering21:46
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derfWell, that sucks.21:47
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lardmanyeah, but I imagine someone will step up if we have something to output21:48
derfBut, even so, it would still be less data transfer to do the whole codec than just the FFT.21:48
derfSince we're talking 128 to 512-sample frames.21:48
lardmanso, is there a test fn somewhere?21:49
GeneralAntillesRST38h, put it in the camera bag?21:49
lardmanwhich I can wrap and at least see if the code will compile on the DSP?21:49
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derfNeeds FILE I/O, though.21:50
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derfNot sure what the DSP provides in that regard.21:50
lardmanderf: File IO will need to be abstracted to reads from the ARM side via buffers21:51
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RST38hGeneral: Not a bad idea21:51
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derflardman: I assumed something like that. But that's just for testcelt.c. It's obviously abstracted everywhere else.21:51
GeneralAntillesRST38h, I've got an old 512MB that I just keep in the camera bag or my pocket.21:51
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GeneralAntillesand eventually the 2GB I'm using now will move there, too.21:51
RST38hGeneral: have got a few 1GB ones, not using them though...21:52
GeneralAntillesSorta like extra rolls of film from the bad old days.21:52
RST38hgave one away to a guy who bought E5121:52
lardmanderf: the question is really where to split the code21:52
GeneralAntillesIt's interesting, ~200 shots is perfectly acceptable when you're using an SD50021:52
GeneralAntillesyou'll practically never fill it.21:52
lardmanderf: celt_encode()/decode() is ideal, depending on what setup is needed21:52
GeneralAntillesWhen you're using a DSLR on the other hand.21:53
GeneralAntillesThat'll maybe last you 30 minutes. . . .21:53
derflardman: Right. I think that should be possible.21:53
RST38hGeneral: *video*.21:53
GeneralAntillesI never shoot video.21:53
RST38hFills those cards pretty fast21:53
RST38hGeneral: We have got a toddler. It is not possible NOT to shoot video of a toddler21:53
* GeneralAntilles doesn't have any of those.21:54
lardmanderf: looks like celt_mode_create() is needed too21:55
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lardmanderf: could that be called in an init fn, or does it require data from the stream?21:55
RST38hGeneral: that's temporary.21:55
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, don't scare me, please. :P21:56
derflardman: It needs the basic setup parameters.21:57
RST38hGeneral: at some point you will discover (with a certain measure of disgust) that this thought no longer scares you =)21:57
derfRight now those are all just agreed on in advance (e.g., not in the stream).21:57
lardmanderf: they could just be passed over in a struct though I guess?21:57
derflardman: Yes.21:57
RST38hWith a name like that, I would commit suicide.21:58
GeneralAntilles50/50 either he gave a fake name or the editing crew made it up.21:58
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RST38haccording to google, he has already got quite a following22:00
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lardmanderf: what are the amounts of data passed in per call of *_encode()/_decode()?22:00
lardmanand passed out for that matter22:00
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derflardman: One packet. So 10 to 200 bytes encoded, 128 to 512 samples decoded.22:01
derfTypical values are, e.g., 43/256.22:01
lardmanthe variability is not per packet but depends on the setup params?22:01
lardmancool, makes life easier22:02
derfSorry, getting pulled into a meeting.22:02
lardmannp, I'll have a hack and see what I can do this evening22:02
lardmancatch you later, or tomorrow same time22:02
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GeneralAntillesBye, lardman.22:02
* GeneralAntilles lerns2reed22:03
lardmanGeneralAntilles: Just 'cos I'm hacking I won't disappear! :)22:03
GeneralAntillesBye, derf.22:03
GeneralAntillesI thought you were a little slow on the /quit. ;)22:03
RST38hlardman: depends on what you are hacking into22:03
GeneralAntilleslardman, did you see the Beagle DSPBridge stuff I linked?22:03
RST38hlardman: powerlines and gas pipes immediately come to mind...22:03
lardmanGeneralAntilles: thanks22:05
lardmanRST38h: :P ;)22:05
GeneralAntilleslardman, you should find some ins with some TI DSP folks.22:05
lardmanNot sure whether to get a Beagleboard or something like a Pandora, would prefer something portable22:06
GAN800Well, £199 for the Pandora in November22:06
lardmanyeah right, if it arrives :)22:06
GAN800$149 for the Beagle now.22:06
GAN800Waiting on new silicon from TI22:07
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* lcuk just had to take the bathroom apart22:08
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GAN800You flush your tablet?22:08
lcuknow ive rebuilt it, the toilet flushes at 25fps :D22:08
lardmanso somewhere from £88-10522:08
lardmanbbiam, more wine needed22:08
RST38hlcuk: probably the gasket at the bottom of the flush mechanism22:09
lcukit wasnt the toilet actually :)22:09
RST38hah =)22:09
GAN800oh, tablet down the sink?22:09
RST38hGAN: It has to be all that bacon.22:09
lcukno pennies - but the problem is further downstream22:09
lcuki think theres a family of beavers setting up hom at the y connector between bath and sink outlet22:10
* lcuk cannot remember going into 'plumbing though22:10
GAN800Hrm, I can legally drink in about 20 days22:10
GAN800Creeps me out22:10
lcukyou shouldv seen how rat arsed rm_you got22:11
GAN800So I heare22:11
lcukhe fell asleep on the toilet22:11
sp3000he'll forever lose his opprtunity to drink illegally, that's why22:11
keesjlardman: why choose?22:11
lcukand slid down the wall onto the floor in mcdonalds22:11
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GAN800I told jott he should've left him in one of the conference rooms.22:11
lcukhe was hammered :D22:11
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* lcuk doesnt know which tablet to use tonight22:12
GAN800lcuk, I feel old or something.22:12
lcukyer, 21 is strange, you feel grown up, but not old22:12
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lcukor you shouldnt22:12
lcukponders writing a bit of code22:14
lardmanlcuk: poor boy, rm_you22:14
lcuklard, it was when you lot were all ircing in the same room22:14
* lardman has been told he doesn't need any more wine22:15
lcukrm was just totally zoned out22:15
lcukhahaha - go holly22:15
lardmanstill am tempted by something alcoholic22:15
* lcuk teases lardman for bein under the thumb22:15
lcuki got tracy a swatch watch from germany - she really wasnt expecting it since i asked for her shoe size earlier in the day :D22:16
* lcuk had also sent pictures of the CLOSED swatch watch shop22:17
lcuklardman, it was really strange - i had seen all these shops and things when i came over last time - goin back to the same area (just down the road from the zoo) and seeing everything again was great22:17
lardmanis "not expecting" here a good thing - shoes vs watch, I know which Holly would prefer :D22:18
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mavhccunning plan, ask for a shoe size, and also gather 1000s of data points about how shoe size relates to wrist size amongst humans22:19
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lcuklol lardman, tracy wants both22:21
lcukshe doesnt know but i was just gonna get her toe socks ;)22:21
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mavhcdo people really feel grown up?22:21
lcuki could not ever buy her shoes i wouldnt get her the ones she wanted22:22
lardmanI know what you mean, nor could I bear to part with so much money for so little substance :)22:22
lcukits like if holly went out to tech shop to buy you a new computer - she would come back with a 486 or somethin22:22
lardmantrue, know our strengths and weaknesses22:22
keesjIf only they could hear you now...22:23
lcuktracy knows22:23
crashanddie* Now talking on ##cooking22:23
crashanddie(restorer) hm, tuna sperm22:23
lcukshe says the same thing, but then slaps me when i DONT buy her em22:23
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mavhceasy solution, buy the wrong ones and a receipt22:24
lcukfrom germany22:25
lcuki suppose it gets another holiday22:25
* lardman wonders why he can't listen to mp3s22:28
lcukon your 810?22:28
nemobad mp3s?22:29
nemoone thing I learned from working some on audacious is just how bloody fragile mp3s are22:29
lcukgone deaf?22:29
nemoer. mp3 libraries22:29
lardmanon PC, I bet something has locked the sound output22:29
nemomp3s are like HTML - everyone seems to have a new way to write them incorrectly22:29
lcukyer, i find they get all caught up in the player and you have to pull out all the bits and they unwind onto the floor22:29
crashanddiethis is actually the best quote ever...22:30
crashanddie[20:23] (crashanddie) * Now talking on ##cooking22:30
crashanddie[20:23] (crashanddie) (restorer) hm, tuna sperm22:30
crashanddie[20:23] (lcuk) she says the same thing, but then slaps me when i DONT buy her em22:30
lcukcrashanddie, i thought my mind was bad22:30
crashanddielcuk, I'm not your average perverted joe22:30
lcukno, you are in a league of your own22:31
crashanddieHell yeah !22:31
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crashanddienow that's an inspiring nickname22:35
crashanddiejust like mine :D22:35
GeneralAntillesAnybody have any useful analysis on what the Linux Foundation gold-level sponsorship actually means?22:36
lcuki bet bein an errordeveloper is really rewarding.  "Yeah, this week, I've been working on error 429.  its gonna be massive - everyones gonna have it"22:36
crashanddiehaha :D22:37
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, $100,000k donation22:38
* lardman wonders why getting a2dp to work is such a pita22:39
lcukwhats wrong with it lard? i thought you had completed that mission?22:39
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lardmanyeah, it's just getting Bluez to not complain about something or other22:40
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lcukits quite a lengthy chain of components from having the mp3 on disk to having it in your ear isnt it22:40
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, and they get a vote in the election of 3 seats in the council22:40
crashanddieor something like that22:41
lardmanyeah and the N810 assumes I want hands-free audio by default22:41
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lardmanheadset profile22:41
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, yeah, but what does it MEAN.22:41
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lcukahhh, but what do you want it as22:41
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, what do you mean?22:41
lardmanadvanced audio distribution profile iirc22:41
GeneralAntillesThere must be some additional significance.22:41
lcukGeneralAntilles, they donated and have given financial support to an organisation22:42
lardmananyway, wired headphones have their place (when I have something better to do than arsing about with bluez)22:42
KotCzarny_advanced audio distortion profile22:42
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KotCzarnymorning everyone22:43
lcukmornin kot22:43
mavhcwhat's so bad about a wire?22:43
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, there's 3 levels, silver, gold and platinum. Platinum get a seat, no matter what, gold get a vote for 3 chairs, and silver get a vote for 1 chair22:43
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, luck, nevermind.22:43
GeneralAntillesYou aren't telling me more than I already know. :P22:43
KotCzarnylcuk: i'm still in wakeup mode22:44
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, everything's explained in there22:44
lardmanmavhc: my DSP task is sat there not able to perform ;)22:44
lcukbloody long sleep you had mate :)22:44
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, "If you're not getting the right answer, it's probably because you're not asking the right question"22:44
lcukextremely pleased to see you return anyway22:44
KotCzarnysleep is essential22:44
derflardman: Sounds like a personal problem to me.22:44
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, likely, but I don't feel like pursuing the question farther. :P22:45
crashanddieyour loss22:45
lardmanderf: :p22:45
lardmanoh no, lethal bizzle is next on the playlist22:46
lcukyer lardman, shames theres no tablets you can take for your problem22:46
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lardmanwhere is qwerty anyway22:46
lcukholiday? school?22:46
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lardmanI'll take an n900 if anyone can prescribe one22:46
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KotCzarnyis it announced already?22:48
lardmanno, just re the tablet to take22:48
GeneralAntillesThe servers certainly don't _seem_ faster, did the upgrade actually happen?22:50
lardmanoh dear22:50
* lardman must delete that track22:50
lcukwhy whats up wiv it22:51
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Stskeepsaladds: is there a wlan-cal thing in initfs?22:56
crashanddieanyone wanting to play uno?22:56
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aladdsStskeeps: booting it up in non-host mode22:58
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GAN800Hello, Jaffa.22:59
aladdsStskeeps: where would it be?22:59
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aladdsStskeeps: yes there is22:59
crashanddieI guess not then23:00
aladdsdunno where23:00
aladdsi did ls -lR | grep wlan-cal23:00
aladdsand i got an entrl23:00
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aladdsbut it didn't give me a path...23:00
KotCzarnyfind is better23:00
KotCzarnyassuming it's on initrd23:00
lardmanderf: what's with the random encoding/decoding?23:01
derflardman: Hmm?23:01
Stskeepsaladds: chroot /mnt/initfs wlan-cal23:01
Stskeepsnow i know why it won't load23:01
lardmanderf: in the test program23:01
Stskeepsaladds: we forgot to copy in firmware23:01
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derflardman: What random encoding/decoding?23:02
lardmanif (argc==9 && rand()%1000<atoi(argv[7]));23:02
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derf      /* This is to simulate packet loss */23:02
derfIt's to simulate packet loss.23:02
lardmanhmm, me can't read23:03
Stskeepsbtw, for the cx3110x people.. i ran into <- isn't this a reverse engineering of the 770 chip?23:03
lardmanI though one said encode and the other decode23:03
Stskeeps(look at readme)23:03
derfThere's one that's commented out that says23:03
derf      /* This is for simulating bit errors */23:03
lardmandon't worry, am just going mad23:03
lardmanbreak time, CSI, bbiab23:03
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lcukgonna watch heroes tonight23:04
Stskeepsaladds: that's fine, ta23:04
Stskeepsaladds: sec23:04
Stskeepsaladds: there's a /lib/firmware or /lib/hotplug on initfs, isn't there?23:06
Stskeepsaladds: usr/lib/hotplug/firmware#23:07
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Stskeepsmkdir -p /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware and copy the files in there on initfs to the deblet partition23:08
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Stskeepsaladds: you don't happen to be a Makefile type of person?23:14
JaffaWoohoo! I think may crack #354223:15
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lardman|tvderf: Ah, I'm not going completely mad, I did see an encode and a decode, which one do you want?23:17
derflardman|tv: Both!23:18
lardman|tvok, I was wondering about that :)23:18
derflardman|tv: The whole point of CELT is that it is for extremely low-latency two-way communication.23:18
derfSo each side is running both an encoder and a decoder.23:19
lardman|tvyou want the rmsd value computed too - an error metric?23:20
derfThat's mostly just for debugging.23:21
derfI'm assuming you'll be wanting to compile with FIXED_POINT, in any case.23:21
lardman|tvI suppose that can be done on the arm side23:21
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Stskeepsaladds: anyway once you've put firmware in right place the module should be more loadable :P23:29
JaffaOther yay! Fixed my broken browser without a reflash :-)23:29
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lcukw000t jaffa23:31
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* crashanddie burps and opens beer23:34
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NaviJaffa, :D23:36
* moontiger finishes lunch23:36
* Jaffa updates with how :-)23:36
algerionthis might be a noob question, but dows os 2008 allow x11 forwarding from the device?23:37
crashanddiealgerion, if you install xauth23:38
Navilcuk, just wondering, do the debian build scripts in your svn repo actually work, or are they just there?23:38
lcukyou mean to build a package?23:38
lcukor random ones in the package folder amongst the other packaging stuff23:39
NaviYes, the build scripts in your liqbase svn :P23:39
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lcukyes, it will build a package23:39
lcukbut i was not happy with many things23:39
lcukand i know once this catches on there will be a LOT of data created in the wrong place23:39
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lcukso i went away and built more stuff23:40
JaffaShit. Arse. Had to log out of the wiki becuase of a "loss of session data"; copied the edit to my clipboard, and had overcopied it by the time I'd logged back in.23:40
lcukand now im in the same boat again, i have more files scattered - i really dont like the linux fs23:40
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KotCzarnylcuk, wrong23:41
NaviNow, that's just blasphemy.23:41
KotCzarnyyou don't like files scattered by make install23:41
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KotCzarnyonce you package them23:41
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KotCzarnyit's not a problem anymoer :)23:41
lcukyer i suppose, but with so many expected locations and so much stuff i wouldnt know23:41
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KotCzarnyhow many?23:41
KotCzarnylibs go to libs23:42
lcukbut it is - i need at least 2 layers for data trees23:42
KotCzarnyshared data to share23:42
KotCzarnybins to bin23:42
lcukits data - all still in one exe23:42
KotCzarnyand that's all23:42
KotCzarnywell, config files can go to etc too23:42
KotCzarnyand includes go to include23:42
KotCzarnyhow not to love it :)23:43
lcukyer, ill run over it with you over the next couple of days if you are avail :)23:43
lcukill let you know where i got up to and stuff - i think ive handled the worst of it23:43
lcukdid you keep runnin the old build on your lappy?23:44
KotCzarnynot much reading for me23:44
KotCzarnyi'm mostly coding23:44
lcukyou will have to let us know what you have been upto23:44
KotCzarnyso it's mcedit + www for me23:44
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aquatixhm, anyone has an idea what caused libedje0 and such to install on my tablet?23:47
aquatixsome theme maybe?23:47
KotCzarnythere was some command to check what pkg file belongs to23:47
aquatixdpkg -S23:48
aquatixbut that's not what i want to know ;)23:48
* aquatix was wondering what caused the install of those package23:48
KotCzarnycan you list what depends on it?23:48
Stskeepsaquatix: canola?23:49
aquatixuninstalling says `python2.5-etk'23:49
aquatixStskeeps: hm, could be indeed23:49
aquatixweird that it doesn't list canola2 in Uninstalling then23:49
aquatixonly a bunch of libs (libetk* efl-core etc)23:50
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aquatixhm, it refuses do uninstall libecore023:57
KotCzarnyenlightement ?23:58
aquatixthat's why i wonder what the hell it's doing here :)23:58
KotCzarnysome shiny app23:58
KotCzarnymost likely23:58

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