IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2008-09-22

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qwerty12_N800	Hi, anyone know of a hex editor for the tablet?	01:16
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solmumaha	anyone know where pupnik is?	01:22
GeneralAntilles	No :(	01:23
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solmumaha	was he at the summit?	01:27
jott	no	01:27
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yacoob	qwerty12_N800, if you don't find anything useful, vim+xxd could be the answer	01:28
jott	or use mc :)	01:28
qwerty12_N800	yacoob: thanks, will remember that	01:28
qwerty12_N800	jott: thanks, i've got mc on here...	01:29
jott	qwerty12_N800: just f3 and then f4	01:30
Mek	hmm.. I didn't package kdeutils yet, else you could also use okteta :P	01:30
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jott	text-tools still rule the world :)	01:30
jott	hte is also very nice	01:31
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jott	hte unfortunately only supports x86 disasm :/	01:33
Mek	hmm... ony thin gI was wondering while on the train back, does anyone know if there are any plans to get a newer gcc than the old 3.4 one in scratchbox? :)	01:33
jott	oh	01:33
jott	it does arm now? ..hmm	01:33
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qwerty12_N800	yep, thanks! mc ftw. i'm doing a quick hack to load another model's fw	01:33
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crashanddie	bad news	01:34
jott	Mek: you can install a newer version - but that will break binary compatibility :)	01:34
crashanddie	I broke my n810	01:34
jott	:(	01:34
crashanddie	screen is kaput	01:34
Mek	jott: yeah... I guess that would indeed be the problem... perhaps freemantle will use a newer gcc? :)	01:35
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, warranty?	01:35
crashanddie	maybe, but all the paperwork is back in France	01:35
GeneralAntilles	Screen is kaput or touch panel is kaput?	01:35
jott	Mek: yes afair it will. would be pathetic if not anyway...	01:35
crashanddie	screen is disconnected, methinks	01:36
GeneralAntilles	I'd buy that.	01:36
jott	crashanddie: maybe you can just bring it to a nokia store without paper stuff.	01:36
GeneralAntilles	Not the first N810 I've heard of going dead by the screen disconnecting.	01:36
crashanddie	Keyboard still lights up, and I can still hear the sound	01:36
crashanddie	when I type on the keyboard	01:36
jott	it can't be older than 2 years anyway.	01:36
qwerty12_N800	crashanddie: you know what i suggest reading ;)	01:36
crashanddie	but no clicks when I tap the keyboard, no LED, and slider has a hard time opening/closing	01:37
crashanddie	qwerty12_N800, yeah, but I don't have the tools, I'm already looking at it	01:37
qwerty12_N800	:(	01:37
crashanddie	I'm pretty sure it's just a matter of reconnecting it (I fell a foot or so)	01:37
crashanddie	it fell**	01:37
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jott	crashanddie: i would just try to go to a nokia store.. maybe they are cooperative...	01:39
crashanddie	yeah	01:39
crashanddie	I just need the tools really, I'm pretty sure I could fix it myself	01:39
crashanddie	it's just the closest nokia store is quite a way away	01:39
jott	yeah well but if you try so, you warranty is invalidated for sure :)	01:40
crashanddie	oh hang on	01:40
crashanddie	there's one in se15	01:40
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crashanddie	awesome, a new one opened just two bus stops away	01:44
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lcuk	915 words a day	01:50
lcuk	nine hundred and fifteen words a day	01:50
crashanddie	lcuk, I BROKE MY NIT :'(	01:50
lcuk	hi everyone btw, im still awestruck by how much i typoe	01:50
crashanddie	a little decency, please	01:50
lcuk	what happened?	01:50
crashanddie	it fell off the coffee table	01:51
lcuk	and?	01:51
crashanddie	no screen	01:51
GAN800	He broke it with his ugly face.	01:51
crashanddie	GAN800, my face compared to yours is about as precious as the Queen's fanny	01:51
lcuk	hello high emporer antilles	01:51
lcuk	crashanddie, does the device come on and make noises, but no outp[ut	01:52
crashanddie	lcuk, yeah, exact	01:52
crashanddie	ly	01:52
lcuk	do as jott says	01:52
lcuk	he is afterall a superhero :)	01:52
lcuk	jott, did you find khertan after i left	01:52
jott	hey lcuk you chatty follower :)	01:52
crashanddie	keyboard clicks and lights up, but screen is just disconnected, but yeah, tomorrow morning, nokia trip	01:52
lcuk	shitter	01:53
jott	lcuk: i believe not :/	01:53
GAN800	Nokia needs to make the display connector less shitty in the next round.	01:53
lcuk	he mustv gone himself then? maybe he fell in the toilet like rm	01:53
jott	hah	01:53
crashanddie	GAN800, is it a recurring problem?	01:53
GAN800	crashanddie, I've talked to more than a few people. . . .	01:54
crashanddie	yeah, so have I, over the course of my life	01:54
lcuk	i opened my suitcase and found a nice signed statement from customs that they thought all my technology was a bomb	01:54
crashanddie	lcuk, seriously?	01:54
crashanddie	lcuk, oh, you back in the UK?	01:55
jott	having two tablets is very suspicious :D	01:55
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GAN800	. . . who had the same problem problem. :rolleyes:	01:55
lcuk	yer, "we opened your case and checked its contents because it failed the security screening, however this inspection revealed the true contents (chargers and keyboards and deoderant) and allowed it to continue on its journey unmolested :)	01:55
lcuk	the 2 tablets were in hand luggage	01:56
lcuk	i kept swapping between them -	01:56
lcuk	i had to flip the memory card out each time	01:56
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crashanddie	I think the worst was at TLHOPE, the keynote about camera-backpacks, the guy had a dvr --taped to one of the sides, a battery, a shitload of wire connecting the two, and ever since he installed it, has never had his luggage checked	01:57
jott	hehe you could have used wifi and made the plane crash :p	01:57
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Mek	"bluetooth device detected; do you want to pair with Airbus A380?" :P	02:00
lcuk	jott, no - the code expects some things on mmc1 for now as you know	02:00
crashanddie	Mek, "Please enter 2^128-character passphrase"	02:00
Mek	:)	02:01
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jott	crashanddie: 1234 or 0000 will always work with bt devices :P	02:02
lcuk	hey, thats the passphrase i had on my luggage	02:02
crashanddie	the thing is	02:02
crashanddie	most people thing the passcode always is 0000 or 1234	02:02
crashanddie	but what they don't realise	02:02
crashanddie	is that it's a code both sides have to input	02:03
crashanddie	so whether you input "1", or "6719", it's all the same	02:03
crashanddie	because you have to share the code to the other party	02:03
jott	depending on the device..	02:03
lcuk	crashanddie, my demo was almost ruined by random act of bluetooth	02:03
crashanddie	lcuk, your demo was almost ruined by presence of yourself :P	02:03
lcuk	i had my apple connected inside my bag and it was randomly pushing buttons	02:03
lcuk	im fine demoing to a single person - once i am connecting with someone i dont care if 1000 people are looking over my shoulder at the big display	02:04
lcuk	but i fall to pieces if i have to talk on my own	02:04
GAN800	Hehe	02:05
lcuk	GAN800, has any video been released yet of the summit	02:05
jott	lcuk: your presentation went fine.	02:05
Mek	it was a lot better than my louzy kde talk :P	02:05
GAN800	only the qa from Ari's talk at OSiM.	02:06
lcuk	jott :) thanks	02:06
lcuk	:) mek	02:06
lcuk	who are you by the way, your nick rings a bell - were you at summit with us	02:07
Mek	me? I'm Marijn Kruisselbrink	02:07
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lcuk	and i ask the same question - cos not a single name jumps out, its been a very exciting blur	02:08
blafasel	lcuk: Which of the dozens of presentations you did to various groups of people are you talking about? ;)	02:08
jott	just look at some pictures lcuk :)	02:08
lcuk	yer good point, are pictures up?	02:09
jott	some are	02:09
jott	http://flickr.com/photos/tags/maemosummit/show/	02:09
andre___	summit was too successful - more than 200 people. way too many nicks, names and faces to remember... :-P	02:09
lcuk	i shouldv had a proper camera on my nokia - then i couldv wrote on who ppl were as i took pictures	02:09
lcuk	but thats future :)	02:10
jott	http://www.flickr.com/photos/thoughtfix/2873383628/ :)	02:11
jott	there is lcuk pressing space on his bluetooth kb :)	02:11
lcuk	is that th back of neals' head?	02:11
Fatal	lanyardorama!	02:12
lcuk	im gonna collect lanyards :)	02:12
jott	the left one is mek :)	02:12
jott	i think	02:12
Mek	yeah, that is me	02:12
jott	http://www.flickr.com/photos/thoughtfix/2872557861/ lol there is mek in the first row looking a bit annoyed/bored :)	02:13
Mek	tired :P	02:14
lcuk	:D ahhhhh a face	02:14
lcuk	did you have far to travel	02:15
Mek	7 hours by train...	02:15
lcuk	if you were khertan you would have made a new app by now	02:16
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crashanddie	I made 3 different apps last night	02:16
crashanddie	and deleted two today	02:16
crashanddie	I'm pissed	02:17
crashanddie	I'm a bit tipsy	02:17
crashanddie	I'm calling it a night	02:17
crashanddie	'later	02:17
lcuk	gnite crash	02:17
lcuk	go2nokia tomorrow	02:17
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lcuk	my shoulders hurt and arms ache	02:18
lcuk	and feet are tired :)	02:18
lcuk	hey jott, i think i "get" the metro/transport system	02:19
lcuk	i managed to get to tegal by train/bus	02:19
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jott	heh it must have been of use putting the "Map" button in liqbase ;)	02:19
lcuk	yer, as a hack it worked, but im not a mapping person :)	02:20
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lcuk	jott, thanks for finding the pictures, i was feeling a bit miffed i didnt sit and capture some myself	02:22
jott	hehe but the map made one aware how bad yuv is for colored text :)	02:23
* lcuk will thank thoughtfix himself when he sees him		02:23
lcuk	not really, that was simply bitmap scaling	02:23
lcuk	at native size its not so bad - ill see if i can get a test in soon	02:23
jott	your eyes are so bad dude :P	02:25
lcuk	indeed they are	02:26
n800m	http://engadget.com	02:26
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jott	qwerty12_N800: i just uploaded ht to extras-devel :)	02:30
qwerty12_N800	jott: thanks! sounds cool, i'll grab the deb when it uploads :)	02:31
jott	it's up :)	02:31
jott	http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/h/ht/	02:31
lcuk	but what is it	02:32
jott	lcuk: hex-editor with integrated disassembler and elf parser	02:33
jott	(console based)	02:33
lcuk	would it use the pg up/down buttons on the toolbar?	02:33
* lcuk wondered what they were there for because they dont do what they say on the tin with actual console data		02:33
jott	yes you can navigate with pg up/down :)	02:34
lcuk	rm_you had some strange console editor open the other day and i couldn use it ;)	02:34
qwerty12_N800	jott: installed but it wont respond to my taps :)	02:34
lcuk	good, then its got a gui and it might work for me :D	02:34
jott	qwerty12_N800: ah it does not seem to have mouse support :)	02:35
jott	keyboard only ;>	02:35
qwerty12_N800	that's me SOL :)	02:35
jott	it reassembles the turbo pascal tui style :) what was it called again..	02:36
lcuk	didnt dos have a mouse driver though?	02:38
lcuk	with a cursor as big as a yuv pixel ;0	02:38
derf	Turbo PASCAL's editor was awesome.	02:38
qwerty12_N800	there was a lot of mouse drivers for dos	02:38
lcuk	just copy one over and run it (virus check it first) it will work out of the box :D	02:39
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jott	lcuk: there where some tricks to get a "real" mouse pointer in text mode like playing with the fonts :)	02:42
lcuk	jott, next time i come to berlin, we have to go for a drink in cbase	02:42
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jott	yer sure.	02:43
lcuk	they were havin a hackfest there this afternoon - the guy who looked like vin diesel said they partied real hard on sat night and i dont doubt it :)	02:44
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GeneralAntilles	I wonder if there's been any progress on the contact details for Freenode. . . .	02:48
* GeneralAntilles could really go for a maemo.org cloak.		02:49
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, how long you been working on it?	02:49
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade filed a request a couple months ago.	02:49
crashanddie	lol...	02:49
crashanddie	We got the securabit cloak in two weeks time	02:50
jott	GeneralAntilles hey you are a offical pdpc supporter. so make you donations dance :)	02:50
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	02:50
GeneralAntilles	I do have a line in with a couple staffers.	02:50
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crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, seriously though, talk directly to a few opers	02:50
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, if you play your cards right, they'll ask for a list of people	02:51
jott	heh GeneralAntilles just wants to show off with a maemo/council/chairman cloak :)	02:51
GeneralAntilles	Ha	02:52
crashanddie	heh	02:52
crashanddie	not possible though :P	02:52
GeneralAntilles	s/talk directly/yell at X-Fade to "Fix it! Fix it! Fix it!"/	02:52
crashanddie	maemo/council/GeneralAntilles is the best you'd get	02:52
GeneralAntilles	maemo.org/council/GeneralAntilles	02:52
crashanddie	I don't think maemo.org will be possible	02:53
GeneralAntilles	No periods?	02:53
crashanddie	no websites	02:53
GeneralAntilles	I swear I've seen periods. . . .	02:53
crashanddie	periods are fine	02:53
crashanddie	anyway	02:53
GeneralAntilles	It's an organization	02:53
crashanddie	later	02:53
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, you have lost x-fade now - he played on a wii for the first time the other night and is adicted	02:53
GeneralAntilles	distinct from Nokia's Maemo.	02:53
lcuk	the servers are goin to hell	02:54
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, ahahaha	02:54
GeneralAntilles	First time, eh?	02:54
lcuk	i believe3 so yer	02:54
lcuk	he was surprised when it was on	02:54
GeneralAntilles	Somebody should mail him a copy of Twilight Princess.	02:54
crashanddie	First time always hurts	02:54
GeneralAntilles	and Wario Ware	02:54
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jott	crashanddie: why wouldn't maemo/council/chairman be possible?	02:54
GeneralAntilles	He'll implode.	02:54
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, some of the newer games dont come close to the socialability of original sports (which was what was on)	02:55
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jott	"Unique identifier" sounds like it can be chairman too ..	02:55
crashanddie	jott, cuz the last part is the nickname	02:55
jott	mo "unique identifier"	02:55
jott	http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloakformat	02:55
crashanddie	dunno	02:55
n800m	http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/articles/a107_speed.jpg	02:55
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lcuk	wtf @ ballmer http://uk.gizmodo.com/	02:57
lcuk	hes even more off his trolleyt	02:57
jott	this guy is on cocaine 24/7	02:58
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n800m	dude wtf	02:58
n800m	he really is insane	02:59
n800m	i thought it all stopped at flying chairs	02:59
lcuk	they should make a screensaver with that	03:00
* lcuk replaces bacon.png		03:00
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sneakret	has Nokia announced a new maemo device¥'	04:11
sneakret	?	04:11
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GAN800	No.	04:15
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TokyoDan	There seem to be many utilities that switch between USB Peripheral/Host (Networking) modes. The 3 I've tried are:	04:21
TokyoDan	USB Control	04:21
TokyoDan	USB Host/Otg	04:21
TokyoDan	maemo-control-usb	04:21
TokyoDan	And then the Maemo PC Connectivity package installs maemo-control-usb among other things. But I read somewhere that maemo-control-usb requires USB Control (Which requires Python).	04:21
TokyoDan	What I'm trying to do is set up a LAN connection over USB between my N810 Diable and my Mac OSX Leopard. The reason I want this LAN connection is I'm trying to use Eclipse Pluthon to develop Python apps that can be run/debugged directly on the N810 without the need for the sandbox environment on my PC.	04:21
TokyoDan	My questions are:	04:21
TokyoDan	1. Do all three of these little utilities do the same thing?	04:21
TokyoDan	2. Is Host mode the same as LAN/Networking mode?	04:21
TokyoDan	3. What USB/PC Connectivity packages need to be installed to accomplish this.	04:21
TokyoDan	P.S. I've read all the incomplete documentation and am completely confused because of the similar utilities having dependencies/conflicts, and not enough info about if they are good-to-go on Diablo or just Chinook.	04:21
GeneralAntilles	Erm, why do you need USBnet for that?	04:23
GeneralAntilles	Just copy the files over sftp or something. . . .	04:23
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TokyoDan	The Eclipse documentation say that PC Networking is necessary. PC Networking installs maemo-control-usb.	04:26
TokyoDan	maemo-control-usb needs USB Control I believe.	04:27
sneakret	Necessary how?	04:27
TokyoDan	That's just what I've read.	04:27
TokyoDan	Do I need te PC Networking package to use Eclipse-Pluthon?	04:28
TokyoDan	I'm pretty confused but I've read that the N810 has to be in host/Lan mode to use ssh from the PC to the N810.	04:29
GeneralAntilles	Forget USB	04:29
GeneralAntilles	What do you think WiFi is for?	04:29
sneakret	sounds like there's some incorrect documentation leading you astray.	04:31
TokyoDan	Maybe I'm using the wrong terms. PC Networking = Maemo PC Connectivity package that is required by Eclipse/Pluthon to debug directly on the N810.	04:31
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TokyoDan	I just want to know the easiest way to enable the N810 Diable USB for LAN connection to my Mac so that I can use Eclipse-Pluthon.	04:39
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sneakret	tokyodan: I guess nobody here knows that.	04:52
sneakret	no one here at the moment, anyway	04:53
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TokyoDan	I guess you're right sneakernet.	05:13
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Pinger	Anyone figure out how to get USB networking to work via WINXP on N810?	05:38
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Pinger	Anyone figure out how to get USB networking to work via WINXP on N810?	05:39
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Dsnye	night!	06:00
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Viny	Olaa	06:07
mouser-_	Hello	06:09
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TokyoDan	anybody here?	07:24
summatusmentis	yes	07:29
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TokyoDan\|away	heading out for some exercise.	07:35
* RST38h moos woefully		07:38
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Pinger	Anyone figure out how to get USB networking to work via WINXP on N810?	08:04
RST38h	Hehehe: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/22/dziuba_anti_revolution/	08:05
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RST38h	"Don't you think it's just a little scary that people who spend their programming careers in Javascript and PHP are now allowed to think about concurrent execution?" <== priceles	08:09
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Italodance	what are file managers for IT?	08:35
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rm_you	hrm	08:38
rm_you	dodgy connection	08:38
Italodance	?	08:41
Italodance	what are file managers for IT?	08:41
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tigert	?	08:51
tigert	morgen	08:51
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bef0rd	mc	09:09
bef0rd	built in file manager	09:09
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pupnik810	woohoooo	09:13
derf	Welcome to the party.	09:14
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* pupnik810 happy		09:14
pupnik810	how was summit?	09:14
derf	I wouldn't know.	09:15
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timelyx	good	09:19
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summatusmentis	the n810 doesn't have an fm radio, correct?	09:24
solmumaha	pupnik810: morning	09:24
timelyx	correct	09:24
summatusmentis	:-/ bummer	09:24
solmumaha	morning all actually	09:25
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jsmanrique	morning!	10:51
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robink	jsmanrique: Morning.	10:53
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RST38h	moo, zap	11:17
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X-Fade	morning	11:25
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crashanddie	hey X-Fade	11:27
crashanddie	Now, that was exceptionally fun	11:27
X-Fade	It sure was ;)	11:27
crashanddie	Having my n810's alarm clock going off	11:27
crashanddie	With the broken screen	11:27
crashanddie	so... unable to turn it off	11:27
cuse	Hi! I'm using Maemo Diablo on Debian Sid and got the following problem: when trying to install any package with "fakeroot apt-get install something" I get "ERROR: ld.so: object '/usr/lib/libfakeroot/libfakeroot-tcp.so.0' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded" and so it fails to install or upgrade any package. What can I do?	11:28
X-Fade	Remove battery ;)	11:28
crashanddie	X-Fade, when you're waking up from I drunk night, it's a bit hard to think logically...	11:28
crashanddie	X-Fade, I stood up, left it outside my room	11:29
crashanddie	from a drunk night**	11:29
X-Fade	crashanddie: heh ;)	11:29
crashanddie	anyway, monday morning gotta get ready to run my weekly marathon	11:30
zap	RST38h: moo	11:30
crashanddie	X-Fade, you enjoyed the Summit?	11:30
X-Fade	crashanddie: Oh, yes.. I sure did. It was amazing.	11:30
crashanddie	Good. Lucky you !	11:31
crashanddie	http://www.mobymemory.com/micro-SD.asp	11:31
crashanddie	Apparently they ship tomorrow for the 16Gig micro-sd	11:31
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Stskeeps	cuse: you mean the SDK?	11:34
cuse	Stskeeps: yes	11:34
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Stskeeps	scratchbox 1 i guess?	11:35
cuse	yes	11:36
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cuse	I tried "sb-conf install --fakeroot", but "fakeroot apt-get ..." still fails	11:37
cuse	with the same error	11:38
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thux	hi, what shoud put flasher --set-root-device <here> to get booting back to diskchip?	12:06
thux	apparently <flash> works	12:18
univac	does someone know about charging on diablo? i cant charge my empty battery becouse its everytime reboots from chargeing mode to Nokia bootsplash logo	12:20
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taplax	univac: i think that was some firmware issue which has been fixed. you might try to find it from itt thread: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12863	12:37
univac	ok thanks.	12:38
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lardman	morning	12:44
lardman	~lart TalkTalk broadband	12:45
* infobot executes killall -HUP TalkTalk broadband		12:45
lardman	GeneralAntilles: apologies for dropping out yesterday, see above	12:46
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lardman	hi johnx	12:48
johnx	hey	12:48
johnx	how goes it?	12:48
lardman	not bad, summit was good :)	12:49
lardman	whoa, trying to edit this page to add a link to my presentation (http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2008), does the preview not work correctly?	12:50
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X-Fade	lardman: Sometimes tables in previews have 'issues'.	12:54
lardman	X-Fade: I was loath to save it, didn't look too good	12:57
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NeoWatch	hey guys... my n800's screen keep scrolling down and shaking anyone has an idea what would cause that? even reflashing didnt fix it	13:09
johnx	"scrolling down"? is it reacting like the d-pad down button is held?	13:10
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NeoWatch	see like when a movie finishes and u see the credits? the same but i keep seeing the same screen one and again	13:11
X-Fade	NeoWatch: Looks like a display cable problem or something. Hardware related at least.	13:12
NeoWatch	hmm i bought in in compusa hopefully they still have warranty	13:12
X-Fade	NeoWatch: Just to be sure. You even see the bootup Nokia logo scroll?	13:13
NeoWatch	yeah	13:13
X-Fade	Yep, hardware problem.	13:13
NeoWatch	right now i have it on USB mode and its scrolling	13:13
X-Fade	It can be something as simple as your flatcable a bit loose. But try warranty first ;)	13:14
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NeoWatch	okey thanks.	13:16
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Talus46_n810	greetings	13:20
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bongo	hello :)	13:29
RST38h	Hello, X-Fade	13:33
RST38h	X-Fade: Any news on Speccy 1.6.3 promotion to Extras?	13:34
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lcuk	X-Fade, :) hi - did you wake up the next day with "wii-elbow"?	13:40
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lcuk	hi everyone else btw \o	13:42
X-Fade	lcuk: No, upper arm hurt :)	13:42
X-Fade	RST38h: I'll check..	13:42
lcuk	:D did you do anything other than tennis? i found the baseball and boxing was hardest	13:42
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X-Fade	Well, did some Mario cart too.	13:42
RST38h	Do they have Castlevania for Wii at all?	13:43
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lcuk	thats easy (apart from throwing stuff at your mates	13:43
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lcuk	lego star wars is wicked - waving light sabre around is good fun	13:43
Fatal	:)	13:44
RST38h	http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/21/AR2008092102529.html?nav=rss_email/components <=== second degree gender discrimination	13:44
Fatal	or plopping the arms off stormtroopers	13:44
RST38h	(although I do believe they are computing two variables that depend on a third rather than on each other)	13:45
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* lcuk goes for dinner		13:51
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StsN800	lo aladds	14:05
aladds	hi	14:05
X-Fade	RST38h: Non-free?	14:07
StsN800	aladds, you have something called bme-dbus-proxy in 2006?	14:08
aladds	StsN800: no idea, but i can find out	14:08
* aladds boots his 770 into OS2006		14:08
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X-Fade	RST38h: You need to remind me of the problem. It looks good to me?	14:09
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aladds	StsN800: yes, yes i do	14:12
StsN800	aladds, good:)	14:12
StsN800	path?	14:12
lardman	hi lcuk	14:13
lcuk	hi simon :)	14:14
lardman	do some sightseeing?	14:14
aladds	StsN800: gimmie a sec :P	14:14
* lcuk had a really good time, hope you had fun too		14:14
lardman	definitely, shame I had to leave so early, was having a good chat about mapper backends	14:14
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lcuk	yer, i spent the afternoon around the zoo and the transport system - it was amazing to just stand around and listen to the bustle	14:14
lardman	did you see the aquarium?	14:15
lcuk	i am even starting to understand both language and the way things work - i was amazed with everything :)	14:15
lardman	all good :)	14:15
lcuk	no, i didnt go in anywhere - lack of funds - but it wasnt as important to me	14:15
lcuk	next time im bringing tracy and the kids with us (if things progress) and then we can spend some proper time doin stuff	14:16
lardman	cool	14:16
* lcuk loves berlin :)		14:16
lcuk	how was your return trip - everything smooth	14:17
lardman	yeah, delayed of course, but Holly picked me up	14:17
* lardman wonders how Jamie got on		14:17
aladds	StsN800: does this help? http://pastebin.com/d4e12baff	14:18
lcuk	i had a slight delay between tegal and frankfurt - i was told to run through and legged it top whack - i arrived and the very nice german security staff were nicand found out which way and clarified i had enough time n stuff	14:18
* lcuk was knackered		14:19
* lardman got home full of ideas for stuff to hack at, and bloody broadband was still broken		14:19
lcuk	ouch - i tried to connect my nokia(s) to my phone whilst in berlin and it failed miserably, i cant wait for the new stuff - all in one will make my life easier	14:20
lcuk	which stuff are you looking towards?	14:20
lardman	I thought I'd take a stab at the usb2vga stuff, take a look at why usb is slow	14:22
lardman	and also tile/routing server backend for OSM data for Maemo mapper	14:22
lcuk	yer, it did seem a bit "wrong" - hopefully its something tweakable	14:22
lcuk	yer, that was a very interesting track :) i wonder if a similar server could be built to interface with the already onboard vector maps we have on device	14:23
lcuk	it would save doubling up on the space requirements for 810 owners	14:23
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lardman	well yes that would be possible, using the same code in mm assuming someone works out the format and creates a server to render the data and do routing	14:24
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lardman	I imagine Garmin maps would be the second target as the format is known	14:24
lcuk	yer, if the framework gets started it can be moulded into something usable by the vogue of the day	14:24
* lcuk has 5 hours till tracy comes home		14:25
lardman	there's not even much framework needed, just need to act as a web server and serve mm with whatever it currently uses	14:25
lcuk	well, till she picks me up	14:25
lardman	where are you now then?	14:25
lcuk	@desk	14:26
* lcuk knows where he would rather be		14:26
* lardman would rather be home programming, but with internet that's not going to be all that convenient		14:27
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lcuk	i was sat around making notes about all the areas which need tweaking and imporvoing and how to do the next phase	14:27
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lardman	s/with/with no	14:27
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lcuk	thanksfully most of my stuff is happy without internet - for now - :)	14:27
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lardman	I need to grab svn code, look at how things work, etc.	14:28
lcuk	but ive gotta re-evaluate how to dev since my family got a bit bigger	14:28
Stsn800	aladds, yeah -ta	14:28
aladds	:)	14:28
lcuk	good /me has a whole set of new ideas which can be tested now :)	14:28
lcuk	hmmm -good (but thats not bad)	14:29
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* lardman has to reduce a 20pg paper to 8pg, madness		14:29
lcuk	so what time did you land back yesterday and how late were you?	14:29
lardman	lcuk: I got back on Sat night, about 11pm	14:30
lcuk	Ctrl A, Font Size 6. Done	14:30
lardman	lol, yeah I'm tempted	14:30
lcuk	i hate boiling things down, but its still easier than not having enough and having to pad things out	14:31
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lcuk	does anyone know if theres a bluetooth wristwatch with a customisable display?	14:33
lcuk	ie one i can send a bitmap to	14:33
* lcuk is sick of writing reminders on side of thumbs		14:33
crashanddie	16Gig microSD in stock: http://www.mymemory.co.uk/Micro-SDHC/SanDisk/SanDisk-16GB-Micro-SD-(SDHC)-Card---Class-4-(Excluding-Adaptor)	14:34
crashanddie	mobymemory starts delivering tomorrow	14:35
lcuk	not good if you cant see the data	14:35
crashanddie	lcuk, why wouldn't you be able to see the data?	14:35
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lcuk	you can't i mean	14:36
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crashanddie	?	14:36
crashanddie	oh because of the screen?	14:36
lcuk	yeah	14:36
crashanddie	.\|..	14:36
lcuk	mariuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuus	14:36
lcuk	did you get food?	14:36
crashanddie	anyway, off to CarePhone Warehouse	14:36
crashanddie	cheers	14:36
karbas	btw. is there any book or document about maemo platform	14:37
crashanddie	and if they won't fix it, I'll go directly to Nokia UK HQ	14:37
karbas	should do my thesis and write some pages about maemo in general	14:37
lcuk	yes do	14:37
Stsn800	oh, this is interesting	14:37
crashanddie	lcuk, I'll drop my CV off at the same time :D	14:37
lcuk	good idea	14:37
crashanddie	lcuk, got a call from another company, they'd like to interview me for a "nicely paid job in the south east"	14:37
Stsn800	austin che started reverse engineering bme protocol	14:37
lcuk	let them know you are involved in the community	14:38
crashanddie	lcuk, usually that means crappy pay for a fortune5billion company	14:38
lcuk	hmmm this would work for what i want http://arstechnica.com/journals/microsoft.ars/2008/04/20/is-that-windows-mobile-on-your-wristwatch	14:39
lcuk	crashanddie, thats the case everywhere	14:39
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mgedmin	lcuk: hi	14:44
mgedmin	'mariuuuu*s' is not in my notify words list	14:44
lcuk	hahaha but it worked	14:44
mgedmin	found a coctail bar that had sushi	14:45
lcuk	how was the return journey for you?	14:45
mgedmin	it was nice	14:45
mgedmin	the next day was not so nice	14:45
mgedmin	had no time to get breakfast before my flight	14:45
mgedmin	arrived home with a headache	14:45
mgedmin	crashed and lost the rest of the day	14:45
lcuk	:( i hate those kind of days	14:46
lcuk	all fine now and back on track i gather	14:46
lcuk	im goin smokin, ill b back after work	14:50
mgedmin	filthy habit	14:50
aquatix	:)	14:52
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Stsn800	hm, who runs that mrrau dyndns site?	14:59
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Stskeeps	~seen KotCzarny	15:11
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infobot	kotczarny <n=ariel@68.162.32.101> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 97d 13h 17m 37s ago, saying: 'no point in using 2007'.	15:12
aladds	Stskeeps: pidgin is sloooow	15:12
RST38h	Something happened to him	15:12
RST38h	Car accident? Murder? Marriage?	15:12
solmumaha	~seen Alterego	15:12
infobot	alterego <n=alterego@cpc3-cmbg11-0-0-cust590.cmbg.cable.ntl.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 207d 19h 54m 53s ago, saying: 'Spakman_ probably best, I've got a heavy rest of the week. So best wait 'til Saturday and I'll get maemo.rubyx.co.uk back up.'.	15:12
solmumaha	heavy rest indeed	15:13
solmumaha	i miss him :(	15:14
Stskeeps	RST38h: that person had some interesting insight into implementing OSS solutions of nokia things	15:14
Stskeeps	kinda like austin che	15:14
RST38h	Sts: Too late now.	15:15
Stskeeps	probably	15:15
RST38h	"He is dead, Jim. You take his tricorder and I will take his purse."	15:15
Stskeeps	his site is still up so there's hope ;)	15:15
Stskeeps	hm. he's actually on freenode	15:15
solmumaha	so is alterego!	15:16
RST38h	-> KotCzarny Hey, how come we do not see you at #maemo any more? =)	15:17
Stskeeps	i asked some more specific question :P	15:17
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* mgedmin wants pulseaudio on his n810		15:18
Stskeeps	osso-esd is OSS these days	15:18
Stskeeps	implement it?	15:18
Stskeeps	:P	15:18
Stskeeps	(yes, dsp headers too)	15:19
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RST38h	mgedmin: what is the advantage over esd?	15:26
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mgedmin	RST38h: you can switch streams in mid-play to a different networked output	15:27
mgedmin	which is my killer use-case for pulseaudio	15:28
mgedmin	plus zeroconf discoverability, yum	15:28
mgedmin	(shame it all works better in theory than in practice)	15:28
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mgedmin	IIRC pulseaudio is going to be builtin in freemantle	15:29
RST38h	mgdemin: cool, too bad it does not help my usage case =(	15:29
Stskeeps	mgedmin: the osso-esd stuff is pretty simple, so go ahead and make a pulseaudio output plugin :P	15:30
RST38h	Which is synthesizing audio on the fly and playing it with reasonble latency/jitter	15:30
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blafasel	Whoa. Call me ignorant, but I never thought someone would actually use the sword/rapier stuff. Interesting.	15:31
RST38h	BTW anyone knows if esd ever stalls when you output samples? It seems to be buffering whatever I output	15:31
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ShadowJK	considering pulseaudio sometimes uses 25% cpu on my sempron3100 just outputting sound, it will certainly be "interesting" to see how pulseaudio will fit into a tiny ARM cpu... :)	15:34
RST38h	"Interesting" as in "will it use 100% CPU or just 25%"? =)	15:35
ShadowJK	You can forget low latency and low jitter if you're up to 25% cpu just to stream nice big chunks of audio :)	15:35
RST38h	Prolly	15:36
* RST38h asks The Great Green One to make Nokia provide a standard /dev/dsp device		15:36
RST38h	/dev/audio or /dev/pcm will do just as well though, no problem	15:36
ShadowJK	It's certainly sad that Linux has no decent audio interface right now	15:37
suihkulokki	RST38h: well, it's certainly fortunate that you are not doing architectural decisions :)	15:37
RST38h	Shadow: Who said it does not?	15:37
RST38h	suihkulokki: Fortune is in the eye of a beholder	15:37
blafasel	RST38h: The linuxhater blog did.	15:38
blafasel	;-p	15:38
RST38h	Shadow: Any of the above listed interfaces will work just fine	15:38
RST38h	blafasel: They also called to the Great Green One? Have they sacrificed a tux or two?	15:38
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RST38h	Shadow: Ok, I agree that OSS ioctl()s implemented in /dev/dsp are SoundBlaster centric and should be mostly dropped. But the base API is exactly what is needed and not a whistle more	15:39
ShadowJK	yeah, the OSS stuff is probably the most sane	15:40
RST38h	Well, there is also Sun's /dev/audio - very similar to /dev/dsp but simpler	15:40
RST38h	And there is FreeBSD's /dev/pcm - a simplified straightened out version of /dev/dsp	15:40
ShadowJK	And if you use the out of tree OSS drivers you can even play multiple sounds at once!	15:40
ShadowJK	sunaudio is nice	15:41
Stskeeps	suihkulokki: what's debian policy on things that's reverse engineered btw? i'm allowed to from my law atleast to open things up and stuff	15:41
Stskeeps	suihkulokki: if for instance we start making OSS replacements for nokia daemons	15:41
RST38h	Shadow: Multiple streams issue has been solved long time ago - you normally have 4 or so audio device nodes	15:41
* ShadowJK has one		15:41
RST38h	No dsp0 through dsp3?	15:42
suihkulokki	Stskeeps, there is no debian policy, but you'll want to keep keep the documentation and implementing phases atleast separate	15:42
RST38h	Well, try opening the one you have multiple times	15:42
ShadowJK	can only open it once	15:42
Stskeeps	suihkulokki: nod	15:42
RST38h	Then your version does not support multiple streams	15:42
suihkulokki	and the rest of you guys should read the Linux plumbers conf audio miniconf notes from lwn.new	15:43
ShadowJK	need the OSS that isn't in Linux :P	15:43
suihkulokki	..before makinf more ill-informed comments based on anecdoctal evidence :P	15:43
ShadowJK	link?	15:45
mgedmin	http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/299211/80bd386c71bab66f/	15:46
ShadowJK	"the software that currently breaks your audio."	15:47
ShadowJK	lol	15:47
RST38h	suihkulokki: this stuff should have never been in the userland	15:49
RST38h	It should have been a device with a clean ioctl() based API	15:49
mgedmin	kernel hackers disagree :(	15:50
* RST38h feels to urge to suggest FreeBSD instead		15:50
mgedmin	they don't want audio resampling & mixing in kernel-space	15:50
RST38h	[sorry][	15:50
mgedmin	freebsd on a tablet?	15:50
RST38h	mgedmin: why not?	15:51
mgedmin	could be a nice lightning talk topic for the next summit	15:51
* aquatix wants minix3 dammit		15:51
RST38h	It runs on the iPhone :)	15:51
mgedmin	we'll be expecting you ;)	15:51
suihkulokki	using freebsd would allow N to keep more components closed	15:51
RST38h	Not likely. If I get a chance to attend, the talk will most likely be centered on performance optimization for ARMs	15:51
mgedmin	shush, don't give them any ideas!	15:52
RST38h	suihkulokki: however they wish.	15:52
RST38h	btw, mixing they will have to have implement in the kernel but resampling can be done in a helper library	15:53
ShadowJK	It's like, you have a problem with Applications X and soundsystem/daemon Y, the Y devs say it's the fault of X, the X people are clueless because Y wont tell them what to change or what they're doing wrong, enough different Xs eventually emerge and they write another sound system/daemon, and the cycle repeats :(	15:53
RST38h	And decent hardware will do mixing by itself of course.	15:53
ShadowJK	There will be no decent hardware :)	15:54
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RST38h	Shadow: AC97 supports multiple streams	15:55
RST38h	And that is 97, mind you :)	15:55
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aquatix	yeah, i still hate how i can't even listen music and play a flash movie with sound at the same time on my brandnew workstation	15:55
aquatix	somehow works on my laptop though	15:56
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ShadowJK	I can as long as I don't mind pulseaudio eating 25% CPU, and/or flash having 4 second latency :-)	15:56
RST38h	Shadow: You do not have AC97 or maybe you need a proper audio deriver?	15:57
RST38h	s/deriver/driver/	15:57
infobot	RST38h meant: Shadow: You do not have AC97 or maybe you need a proper audio driver?	15:57
jsmanrique	time for lunch	15:57
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blafasel	pa works for me, it's not even lagging behind. Except when I close epiphany/flash, I have to listen to some 3-4 seconds of youporn before it dies.	15:57
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* Stskeeps glances at his tablet and pondering what it is doing		15:58
blafasel	(and wine sucks with pa. Same for some voip apps)	15:58
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ShadowJK	blafasel, yeah that's what I meant with latency	15:58
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ShadowJK	RST38h, lspci says AC'97 :P	15:59
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ShadowJK	it's not like anything except ac97 exists on desktop in real life anymore..	15:59
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RST38h	Shadow: There is some way to see audio device stats that also shows you hiw many streams are supported	16:00
mgedmin	I bet AC97 allows multiple streams, but doesn't require them	16:01
mgedmin	so everyone goes for the cheap solution and implement mixing in software	16:01
ShadowJK	yep	16:01
ShadowJK	/proc/asound/pcm lists one playback one record stream	16:02
ShadowJK	hm no, seems like 2 capture and 1 playback :)	16:02
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RST38h	2 capture is for stereo =)	16:07
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RST38h	Shadow: The Net says ALSA contains a software mixing plugin	16:08
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johnx	RST38h, that's dmix	16:09
RST38h	yep	16:09
johnx	it works great too	16:09
johnx	not network transparent though	16:09
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RST38h	oh, who needs network transparency really...	16:10
mgedmin	I do	16:10
RST38h	what is the usage case? a thin client?	16:10
johnx	RST38h, some people :)	16:10
johnx	playing sound from my tablet to my computer's speakers?	16:10
mgedmin	yep	16:11
johnx	from laptop to speakers hoooked to a set-top box	16:11
RST38h	johnx: mount it as a device	16:11
RST38h	I mean, as a storage device	16:11
johnx	that is one possibility	16:11
RST38h	and a wiser one two, with respect to the amount of data transferred	16:11
johnx	but it can be kind of a PITA sometimes	16:12
johnx	I'm just playing the devil's advocate anyways...	16:13
RST38h	works for me most of the time...even over bluetooth =)	16:13
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Mek	hmm.. how do I figure out in what repository a package is? Because currently I have a package I need that is available in my scratchbox install, but not on my actual device...	16:27
johnx	apt-cache policy package	16:27
Mek	ah, it is diablo/sdk. does it hurt to enable that on an actual device?	16:28
Stskeeps	we enable it as part of deblet install :P	16:29
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Mek	anyway, why are many perl modules only available in sdk, ant not in some 'normal' repository :)	16:32
Stskeeps	maemo madness	16:33
Stskeeps	it's kinda like mad cow, only with operating systems	16:33
Stskeeps	:P	16:33
X-Fade	Because they are used by certain debian tools?	16:33
johnx	sounds like a game show on daytime TV...	16:33
X-Fade	Which are not needed on the device.	16:33
X-Fade	And enabling the sdk repository on your device is a bad thing to do.	16:33
Stskeeps	so binutils on tablet is considered harmful?	16:34
Mek	but they are not only used by debian tools, someone may also wright a real application in perl for example... :P	16:34
X-Fade	No, but if you need them: Upload to extras?	16:34
X-Fade	Mek: Sure, put perl in extras ;)	16:35
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Stskeeps	i'd love binutils in extras really :P	16:35
Stskeeps	(which other do we use from diablo/sdk, johnx?)	16:35
Mek	I guess I'll upload all the perl modules I need to extras-devel than...	16:35
johnx	Stskeeps, do you still grab bash from someplace random?	16:36
timeless	x-fade: err	16:36
Stskeeps	johnx: we don't need bash anymore	16:36
Stskeeps	sh is just fine	16:36
X-Fade	Mek: That would be the best option as others can use it too.	16:36
X-Fade	binutils is in the sdk/tools repo. Which you can use on the device.	16:39
X-Fade	But no perl, I'm affraid.	16:40
johnx	Stskeeps, ncurses-base is from sdk or tools	16:41
Mek	well.. perl must be somewhere, because I already have that installed on my device... justmany perl modules are missing...	16:41
Stskeeps	ah yes	16:41
X-Fade	Ehm, right. It is on the device.	16:42
X-Fade	But probably pretty slimmed down./	16:42
johnx	diablo/tools/free is ok to have enabled on the device, right?	16:43
johnx	or is that related to sdk?	16:43
X-Fade	The tools part is ok.	16:43
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johnx	Stskeeps, looks like we can get everything from non-sdk repos	16:44
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Stskeeps	good	16:46
Stskeeps	what about binutils? :P	16:46
Stskeeps	oh	16:46
Stskeeps	sdk/tools	16:46
Stskeeps	that's good to know	16:46
Stskeeps	add to todo	16:46
johnx	for n in $(apt-cache show deblet-installer \| grep Depends \| cut -f2 -d:) ; do apt-cache policy $(echo $n \| cut -d, -f1) ; done	16:47
Stskeeps	hehe	16:47
johnx	it doesn't cope well with \|'s but just ignore those	16:47
GeneralAntilles	ohgod. Please, no, RST38h. <_<	16:48
Stskeeps	[15:45] <johnx> for n in $(apt-cache show deblet-installer \| grep Depends \| cut -f2 -d:) ; do apt-cache policy $(echo $n \| cut -d, -f1) ; done	16:48
Stskeeps	er	16:48
Stskeeps	wrong paste	16:48
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Stskeeps	johnx: http://trac.tspre.org/newinstaller.deb is the new apt-using installer if you are interested - repo URL isn't final yet but it works, going to prod some people with it to test how it works with the new package infrastructure	16:49
Stskeeps	(no upgrade path from normal deblet yet sadly)	16:49
johnx	that's fine, I'll backup my $HOME and give it a shot	16:49
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Stskeeps	minor things like hal-gpio-switch aren't working, atleast	16:50
Stskeeps	cos for some reason apt doesnt choose -my- hal version	16:52
Stskeeps	:P	16:52
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johnx	we can pin your repo at a higher priority	16:52
Stskeeps	yeah, true	16:52
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Stskeeps	it's weird though since it was like a ~version compared to the - version	16:53
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RST38h	X-Fade: Any luck on that Speccy package?	16:54
X-Fade	RST38h: What is the problem with it? :)	16:54
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* Stskeeps spams the usual suspects with "could you try this out" pm's		16:54
Stskeeps	:P	16:54
X-Fade	RST38h: I checked it, installed it, uninstalled it. Worked for me?	16:54
RST38h	General: What did your request relate to? =)	16:55
GeneralAntilles	Not trying to get KotCzarny back in here if he's still around.	16:55
RST38h	X-Fade: I uploaded 1.6.3 last night, but the Packages file still says 1.6.2	16:55
X-Fade	RST38h: No it doesn't?	16:55
RST38h	General: Has he been naughty?	16:55
GeneralAntilles	I am not a fan.	16:55
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X-Fade	RST38h: I installed 1.6.3 from Application Manager?	16:56
RST38h	X-Fade: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/4.1/non-free/binary-armel/Packages <-- definitely says 1.6.2. Weird.	16:56
* RST38h seems to be a victim of some web cache		16:56
X-Fade	RST38h: Ah, wait. I might have -devel enabled :)	16:56
* RST38h submitted it to plain extras		16:56
X-Fade	RST38h: It is in http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/diablo/non-free/binary-armel/Packages too btw.	16:57
X-Fade	RST38h: Are you sure you are not looking at a cached copy?	16:57
X-Fade	Version: 1.6.3-1	16:57
X-Fade	Version: 1.6.3-1	16:58
X-Fade	MD5sum: 6a3c695ee815fd3cf175fd264cf65da5	16:58
RST38h	Weird	16:58
RST38h	Ok, lemme wget it from Komkon	16:58
X-Fade	RST38h: Why are you using 4.1 and not diablo btw?	16:58
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RST38h	dunno...a habit...it's a link, right?	16:59
X-Fade	Yes, but still ;)	16:59
RST38h	It is there, but so is 1.6.2. Ok, off to update Downloads page	16:59
X-Fade	RST38h: Yeah, we don't do cleanup at the moment.	16:59
* RST38h uses PICO to write code. What do you expect from him? =)		16:59
RST38h	BTW, as 1.6.3 is available, check it out in full screen mode - it should use /dev/fb0 device now, much faster	17:00
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GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, any progress with Freenode?	17:04
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: On what?	17:05
GeneralAntilles	The contact info and cloaks.	17:05
X-Fade	Ah, no.	17:05
* GeneralAntilles is feeling really vain.		17:05
X-Fade	Of course not ;)	17:05
X-Fade	But I guess you council guys should be able to arrange this? :D	17:06
GeneralAntilles	The council's job is delegation, not doing. :P	17:06
X-Fade	Tsk.	17:06
GeneralAntilles	I could poke a staffer or two, though.	17:07
X-Fade	I at least know that the web form is useless.	17:07
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GeneralAntilles	crashanddie said the turnaround for them was 2 weeks.	17:17
X-Fade	Hmm, then mine was probably lost ;)	17:17
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GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, how long ago did you file the form?	17:20
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: 2 months ago at least?	17:20
X-Fade	The contact form for a channel.	17:21
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GeneralAntilles	I'm poking #freenode.	17:21
Palintheus	fwiw I've seen people in there asking when their form was 6+ mos old	17:26
GeneralAntilles	Then whose palm did crashanddie grease. . . .	17:27
Palintheus	I think it's a matter of constantly asking/bugging which ever staffer you can get	17:29
StsN800	what form? (i know a staffer)	17:30
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GeneralAntilles	The group contact form. (as do I)	17:30
StsN800	ah	17:30
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andrewfblack	I found a new Web Based strategy game I can't quit playing. Its designed for the iphone	17:46
RST38h	X-Fade: btw, Slide Rule for some reason does not show in the list of my apps in the Profile	17:46
RST38h	X-Fade: First thought that it was a matter of time, but it does look stuck now	17:46
andrewfblack	RST38h: I don't think profiles are updating garage projects right now	17:47
X-Fade	RST38h: There is a limit on items in the box. I still need to remove that.	17:47
RST38h	oh	17:47
RST38h	But I looked at the HTML and it is not there either	17:47
RST38h	And the project page (https://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/sliderule/) does not show the author name too	17:48
X-Fade	RST38h: Ah, that is an other problem. Page -> edit metadata..	17:49
X-Fade	Add yourself as author there.	17:49
RST38h	ok...	17:49
RST38h	heh	17:49
RST38h	says "no results"	17:50
X-Fade	enter your full last name or full nick	17:51
RST38h	Yea, last name only - worked	17:52
X-Fade	It doesn't do part search.	17:52
RST38h	neither full name nor nick worked though	17:52
lardman	How fast is Python compared to C?	17:53
mgedmin	not very	17:53
lardman	:)	17:53
lardman	thought so	17:53
mgedmin	unless you're measuring develpoment speed, as opposed to runtime speed	17:53
lardman	yeah, always a trade-off	17:53
lardman	just looking at OSM data rendering and routing, seems to be lots of Python projects around	17:54
mgedmin	python is a very nice language	17:54
mgedmin	but I wouldn't advise writing massively parallel physics simulations in it	17:54
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lardman	no, I can understand that	17:55
RST38h	audio decoders also apply	17:55
lardman	I suppose that access times to MySQL databases are pretty slow, so Python may not be a large hinderance	17:55
RST38h	for database stuff it is fine	17:56
lardman	RST38h: Damn, I was hoping to move over ;)	17:56
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* RST38h figured that much =)		17:56
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lardman	slow compared to Python vs C execution time I meant	17:56
lardman	though that's not really valid thinking	17:57
mgedmin	one guy wrote a VoIP implementation in Python	17:57
lardman	with some hw assist/external C libs I presume?	17:58
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RST38h	There are people who wrote Spectrum and NES emulators in Java	17:58
mgedmin	there was a subroutine for audio mixing in the standard library, apparently	17:58
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Mek	there are people who wrote x86 dos emulators in Java :)	17:58
lardman	ok, well I may have a crack at pulling something together from the Python code, should be reasonably quick to code at least	17:58
RST38h	mgdemin: btw, how did he do the encoding? surely there is no audio codec stuff in pythonstandard libs?	18:00
RST38h	Mek: eek.	18:00
lardman	Mek: I guess that's a way of stopping DOS programs from running too quickly on our otherwise fast processors ;)	18:01
Mek	:)	18:01
mgedmin	RST38h: don't remember; check out http://divmod.org/trac/wiki/ShtoomProject	18:02
RST38h	!	18:02
lardman	native PortAudio	18:03
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RST38h	Uses the G711 ULAW codec by default, or GSM 06.10 (with additional pygsm module installed).	18:04
RST38h	At the moment G711 ULAW (aka PCMU) is supported with the standard Python audioop module. If you install Itamar Shtull-Trauring's pygsm module (available from shtoom CVS as module 'pygsm', or from the 'Files' section of the shtoom website), it will also handle GSM 06.10.	18:05
lardman	pygsm wraps libgsm	18:07
lardman	so anyway, yep eventually the heavy lifting is done in C (or asm ;)	18:08
RST38h	G711 may still be written in python though...	18:08
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derf	lardman: Is there a basic library for just doing an FFT on the DSP already?	18:10
lardman	derf: yes	18:10
derf	Link?	18:10
lardman	hang on a tick	18:10
lardman	http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/dsp/linux_summit.odp	18:11
lardman	should give you the spru number	18:11
derf	Thanks.	18:11
lardman	probably this one (I can't read OO files in the office): http://focus.ti.com/lit/ug/spru422i/spru422i.pdf	18:12
Italodance	hi johnx	18:13
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johnx	hi Italodance. did you get it fixed?	18:13
lardman	http://focus.ti.com/lit/ug/spru037c/spru037c.pdf is also worth a look	18:14
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derf	Actually this is for audio.	18:16
derf	Looking at a CELT port... if I can offload the FFT used for the pitch search, encode+decode should fit comfortably in real time (they're just barely real time now).	18:16
GeneralAntilles	How'd the website redesign discussion go at the Summit, btw?	18:20
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: 30 mins was way to short ;)	18:22
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	18:22
GeneralAntilles	I like Bundyo's general design.	18:22
GeneralAntilles	If we drop most of the js garbage.	18:22
X-Fade	I do too, although I dislike green ;)	18:22
X-Fade	But Quim has asked the indt designers to make a design too.	18:23
GeneralAntilles	lol	18:23
* GeneralAntilles was trying to get some sort of traction on that a month ago. . . .		18:23
X-Fade	Although I think that reorg of the pages is more important than redesign of the style.	18:24
GeneralAntilles	Right	18:24
X-Fade	Restructuring vs redesign.	18:24
crashanddie	Ok	18:25
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crashanddie	so without any proof of purchase, I can't send my NIT into repair	18:25
X-Fade	Hmm lame, my blog post didn't get posted yesterday. Well, better late then never ;)	18:25
GeneralAntilles	wtf?	18:25
X-Fade	crashanddie: Well, that is no news?	18:25
X-Fade	crashanddie: You always need to provide that.	18:26
lardman	derf: I'm happy to help	18:26
crashanddie	Nokia told me to contact a company, which I did, 20 quid initial costs, and then they will advise me of what's happening next. But it'll probably be around a hundred quid total	18:26
crashanddie	I went into a phone repair shop, and they told me just opening it up and seeing what's wrong was 15 quid, and then extra on what they'll have to do	18:27
lardman	X-Fade: same here (30min too short), though everyone may have fallen asleep if my slot had been longer - Florian for example ;)	18:27
derf	lardman: Just looking for now.	18:27
crashanddie	So I just asked them to get me a screwdriver set for the NIT, and I'll do it myself	18:27
X-Fade	lardman: Check my blog post on planet ;)	18:27
Italodance	johnx	18:28
derf	I also assume you haven't looked at any of the QR code stuff yet.	18:28
Italodance	not yet i show u now	18:28
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johnx	Italodance, ok. show me	18:28
florian	lardman: heh, well... noone blames you for the free beer the evening before ;)	18:28
crashanddie	X-Fade, yeah, but it's still bollocks	18:28
lardman	florian: :)	18:28
GeneralAntilles	I don't get the proof of purchase requirement.	18:28
X-Fade	crashanddie: No? Warranty isn't transferable?	18:29
GeneralAntilles	^ retarded	18:29
crashanddie	still bollocks anyway	18:29
X-Fade	Well, I don't think storing a receipt is a big deal, really.	18:29
Italodance	johnx http://i34.tinypic.com/dz8j03.png	18:30
Italodance	johnx it just added others???	18:30
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lardman	X-Fade: lol, thanks; am expanding it into a decent document to fill in the gaps and replace the current wiki page	18:30
Italodance	without overwrite	18:30
X-Fade	lardman: I was sitting there with Quim and we were just blown away ;)	18:30
Italodance	johnx maybe i need to active obe of these news	18:31
Italodance	one...	18:31
lardman	derf: what code base are you working from? Git, or 0.4.0?	18:31
johnx	Italodance, I really don't know what's wrong. sorry.	18:33
Italodance	:(	18:33
derf	lardman: Git.	18:33
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lardman	derf: I;'ve got to go now, but have grabbed the 0.4.0 tarball, you're talking about the pitch.c file?	18:35
derf	Yeah.	18:37
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crashanddie	X-Fade, I still have the receipt, everything	18:37
crashanddie	X-Fade, it's just about 1500km away	18:37
lardman	ok, I'll take a look - broadband probably not working at home so I'll catch you tomorrow	18:37
derf	Basically the real16_fft_inplace call.	18:37
X-Fade	crashanddie: Aw :(	18:37
crashanddie	X-Fade, and I'm not about to go and take a plane/train to get to my storage room	18:37
X-Fade	crashanddie: Where did you buy it? nokia online shop?	18:38
lardman	derf: and the inverse? What data lengths are we talking about here?	18:38
derf	(and real16_iffft)	18:38
crashanddie	Nha, eBay	18:38
derf	lardman: 1024 or so.	18:38
lardman	ok, so worthwhile then	18:38
derf	Gah, that's a lot of f's.	18:38
lardman	:)	18:38
derf	lardman: I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to just break that out, or to move the whole thing to the DSP.	18:38
lardman	derf: yep	18:39
derf	It should compile and run on a C55x.	18:39
lardman	derf: probably easiest to move a little bit at time (/me thinks of Tremor :S )	18:39
lardman	derf: no 8bit data accesses?	18:39
derf	Well, in theory someone has already ported it.	18:39
derf	lardman: I know!	18:39
crashanddie	X-Fade, ebay, sadly	18:40
lardman	who's ported it?	18:40
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derf	Some guy JM was working with, not sure...	18:40
X-Fade	crashanddie: No emails stored?	18:40
crashanddie	X-Fade, everything	18:40
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lardman	cu all tomorrow	18:43
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derf	Have fun.	18:43
lardman\|gone	got a meeting first, so we'll see	18:43
lardman\|gone	bye	18:43
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crashanddie	Ok, my n810 lies open in front of me :D	18:53
qwerty12	Fix it like how nokia would fix it :P	18:53
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\|\|cw	crashanddie: what's wrong with it?	18:57
crashanddie	I was right :)	18:57
crashanddie	Screen connector got loose	18:57
GeneralAntilles	Nasty	18:59
mgedmin	dropped it once too many?	18:59
mgedmin	so it crashed and died?	18:59
crashanddie	quite literally, yeah	19:00
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GeneralAntilles	So, who is gonna be jumping in on the WLAN driver development?	19:01
crashanddie	works :D	19:01
crashanddie	Hahahah :D	19:01
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: fanoush showed some interest atleast	19:01
crashanddie	sound works too	19:02
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, congrats	19:02
Stskeeps	i don't know enough about wlan development to work on that, so	19:02
qwerty12	Who's going to release a pre-compiled linux-omap kernel first? :P	19:02
crashanddie	ok, let's see if the camera now works too	19:02
crashanddie	Hahahahahah :D	19:02
* qwerty12 can't be arsed to git clone the linux-omap tree, takes too pissing long		19:02
crashanddie	IT DOES :D	19:02
qwerty12	Hehe, great! Still going to buy N810W?	19:03
GeneralAntilles	qwerty12, you might be checked out by the time it's in mainline? :D	19:03
crashanddie	qwerty12, no fucking way	19:03
Stskeeps	qwerty12: i noticed austin che has started hacking a bit away at BME communication btw	19:03
GeneralAntilles	lol	19:04
GeneralAntilles	Talk about a lot of effort now almost totally invalidated.	19:04
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Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: the DSME stuff or? :P	19:05
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, the DMSE stuff.	19:05
qwerty12	GeneralAntilles: lol, I'd be peed off :P	19:05
qwerty12	crashanddie: lol	19:05
GeneralAntilles	Well, I suppose the goodnews is that he's now well equipped to hack on Nokia's code.	19:05
qwerty12	Stskeeps: great, hopefully, he produces good results like with the DSME stuff	19:05
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crashanddie	And all it took was a £1 screwdriver set, and a veil	19:05
GeneralAntilles	Maybe we can get some Nokia to accept some cool patches.	19:05
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GeneralAntilles	s/some //1	19:08
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Knowledge	Alright meat heads, any new words on the new tablet...	19:33
\|\|cw	I heard it'll taste like cheddar	19:34
Knowledge	nice!...	19:34
jiiv	cheddar's not bad.	19:34
Knowledge	sharp I hope...	19:34
jiiv	indeed.	19:34
crashanddie	cheddar tastes like plywood	19:34
GeneralAntilles	Knowledge, were you watching Engadget? :\	19:34
Knowledge	Merkts Cheddar is awesome	19:34
crashanddie	Brits don't know shit about cheddar	19:34
\|\|cw	really?! where do you get your plywood!	19:34
crashanddie	s/cheddar/cheese/	19:34
Knowledge	No General	19:34
Knowledge	I wasn't	19:34
GeneralAntilles	Knowledge, well. . . .	19:34
Knowledge	lmao	19:35
johnx	Knowledge, then go watch Engadget	19:35
crashanddie	infobot is gone?	19:35
johnx	actually though, I'll spoil it: There will be mild and sharp versions	19:35
crashanddie	infobot, hey there !	19:35
crashanddie	~help	19:35
johnx	speculation on a crossover colby-jack tablet is still just a rumor	19:35
johnx	~botsnack	19:36
Stskeeps	i want a tablet that has the metal patterned like a cow. white and black spots.	19:36
crashanddie	rumour**	19:36
GeneralAntilles	sudo rm -rf en-gb	19:36
Knowledge	nothing on engadget	19:36
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, permission denied	19:36
GeneralAntilles	Knowledge, there are at least 2 articles on Engadget.	19:36
GeneralAntilles	One of them was frontpage less than 6 hours ago.	19:36
Knowledge	then their search engine blows	19:37
johnx	Knowledge, yeah, we knew that too :)	19:37
GeneralAntilles	http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/21/a-few-more-details-confirmed-on-nokias-next-gen-internet-tablet/	19:37
\|\|cw	"and that use of hair-care products at the Summit was apparently optional."	19:37
\|\|cw	heh	19:37
Knowledge	Good lord!...3g?...	19:38
GeneralAntilles	Poor Kate	19:38
Knowledge	why not cdma?...	19:38
Knowledge	oh wait	19:38
\|\|cw	even tmoble is goiing 3g now	19:38
Knowledge	that's going to be around $700	19:38
Knowledge	you guys ever heard of the "unlimited sim" from Tmo?	19:38
Knowledge	I wonder if it's a scam	19:39
GeneralAntilles	Supposedly Nokia wants to keep the price reasonable.	19:39
johnx	unlimited = scam	19:39
Knowledge	I figured that much johnx....cause craigslist chicago has those things for $30-$35....per month, for unlimited everything	19:40
Knowledge	GeneralAntilles: I'm leaning towards $700	19:41
GeneralAntilles	Knowledge, surely because of the 3G and not because of the OMAP3, though. ;)	19:41
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, is there any way we can get the site to keep you logged in for some sort of appreciable period of time?	19:41
johnx	I wonder what HSPA bands they'll support and whether we'll have different US and EU versions	19:41
Knowledge	GeneralAntilles: exactly	19:41
GeneralAntilles	Bleh cellular	19:42
GeneralAntilles	Makes things way too complicated.	19:42
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GeneralAntilles	Well, a lot of people should be happy now.	19:43
GeneralAntilles	metalayer-crawler is dying.	19:43
derf	Hooray!	19:43
Knowledge	uh huh, yeah....what's that?	19:43
derf	When can we expect the death knell to be sounded?	19:43
GeneralAntilles	Fremantle	19:44
johnx	derf, as soon as my card finishes indexing	19:44
GeneralAntilles	Tracker is, apparently, replacing it.	19:44
derf	What the gekk is tracker?	19:44
GeneralAntilles	http://www.gnome.org/projects/tracker/	19:44
GeneralAntilles	Thing Spotlight	19:44
GeneralAntilles	s/ing/ink/	19:44
Proteous	same thing, they just changed the name	19:45
Proteous	to try to coverup the bad PR	19:45
derf	As long as I can still disable it.	19:45
GeneralAntilles	Though I don't have any clue how their indexing actually works.	19:45
derf	"Magic"	19:45
Knowledge	alright, time for a little chat on HF, see what DX countries I could get, and then a hair cut....later people...	19:45
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GeneralAntilles	"Responds in real time to filesystem changes, automaticaly keeping its metadata database up to date."	19:46
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derf	That's horrible.	19:47
woglinde	hi	19:47
GeneralAntilles	"Designed and built to run well on lower-memory systems with typically 128MB or 256MB memory. Typical RAM usage is 3-9 MB."	19:47
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summatusmentis	why is that horrible?	19:47
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crashanddie	is it possible to change the USB mode on a 770?	20:16
crashanddie	(host <-> device)	20:16
johnx	yes, but you need to supply external 5v	20:16
johnx	the mode is changed with a different kernel IIRC	20:17
johnx	not a runtime thing	20:17
Italodance	johnx ...	20:17
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johnx	Italodance ...	20:18
Italodance	tell me what was the name of other tool for file manager?	20:18
Italodance	i don't remember it	20:18
johnx	you mean the text editor? nano?	20:19
Italodance	i have emelfm2	20:20
Italodance	but remember there is other tool the same this	20:20
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johnx	yeah, it's called "file manager"	20:20
jiiv	maybe pcmanfm or something?	20:20
jiiv	ah.	20:20
johnx	pcmanfm is another option	20:21
johnx	thanks jiiv :)	20:21
Italodance	pcmanfm oh yes tnc guys	20:21
Italodance	:)	20:21
Italodance	:)	20:21
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jiiv	np :)	20:23
crashanddie	johnx, cheers	20:24
johnx	:)	20:24
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CptLaptop	http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15940	20:26
crashanddie	infobot is dead	20:27
crashanddie	sadly	20:27
crashanddie	~help	20:27
* crashanddie strokes infobot		20:27
qwerty12	~$50	20:27
Italodance	guys is there a full page for OSiM Maemo photos?	20:27
qwerty12	Damn, and I was looking forward to a good time...	20:28
Italodance	maybe ....flickr	20:28
Stskeeps	hehe	20:28
Italodance	?	20:29
johnx	Italodance, search flickr for the word "osim"	20:29
Italodance	ok tnx	20:30
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jiiv	stskeeps: i'm trying out that new installer now. no problems thus far :)	20:33
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Stskeeps	jiiv: oki, what stage are you at? debootstrap?	20:33
johnx	Stskeeps, I'm most of the way through the install	20:34
jiiv	i haven't been paying much attention, looks like it just installed nit-env-lxde.	20:34
johnx	no problems so far	20:34
Stskeeps	oki	20:34
Stskeeps	that's good :P	20:34
jiiv	i'm supposed to be working, so i can't watch it like a hawk right now :)	20:34
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Italodance	umm http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2008	20:35
Stskeeps	hehe	20:35
Stskeeps	N800 or N810?	20:36
Stskeeps	in the before this installer there was a problem when running on n810s seemingily.. hoping i've fixed it now	20:36
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jiiv	oh, i'm on an n810 (if that was directed at me)	20:44
Stskeeps	k	20:44
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* lcuk smiles		20:48
* lcuk actually hasnt stopped smiling all weekend		20:48
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GAN800	Somebody spiked his beer.	20:49
solmumaha	spare us from the details	20:49
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lcuk	heh GAN800 :)	20:51
lcuk	what happened to you this weekend anyway - you decided to sleep the one time you were needed to be awake	20:52
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GAN800	Had freinds up for the weekend	20:52
GAN800	went to the football game Saturday.	20:53
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lcuk	ahhhh, you will have to come to the next one :)	20:54
GAN800	Yessir	20:54
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lcuk	do we have a wall of real picture faces with names, ive seen so many fantastic people this weekend and im trying to explain to the missus who is who	20:57
lcuk	and also trying to work out whos sending me amazing emails :)	20:58
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Stskeeps	oh, -finally- some people start taking some interest in deblet on 770 :P	21:01
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RST38bis	arghhh, wired net connection is dead	21:06
GeneralAntilles	"URGENT AND CONFIDENTIAL, FROM THE DESK OF EUROMILION"	21:08
GeneralAntilles	I won!	21:08
Stskeeps	hehe, like the nokia lottery spam the other day to me ;)	21:08
RST38bis	only one L though	21:08
GeneralAntilles	640GB hard drive?	21:13
GeneralAntilles	Odd	21:13
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moontiger	do you guys think that the open sourcing of the n8x0 series is a prelude to them dumping it for the next gen of the platform?	21:17
GeneralAntilles	Erm, open sourcing?	21:18
GeneralAntilles	They're opening 2 things.	21:18
GeneralAntilles	They don't know whether Fremantle will work on the OMAP2 stuff ye.t	21:19
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: there was 4 things on the list though	21:19
moontiger	it was just a thought	21:19
GeneralAntilles	dsme, and WLAN	21:19
GeneralAntilles	What else?	21:19
Stskeeps	moontiger: in any case that just means it's a good thing to get cracking on reverse engineering stuff and providing opensource replacements	21:19
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: some media framework thing (Midas?) and ..	21:20
moontiger	yes totally ... was just wondering if that was how they could dump the platofrm and not piss everyone off	21:20
Stskeeps	i'm sure there's plenty of n8x0 developers who could find a way	21:20
Stskeeps	.P	21:20
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, that's for Fremantle.	21:21
Stskeeps	ah	21:21
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Stskeeps	moontiger: but hey, atleast we're resurrecting the 770 these days :>	21:22
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moontiger	great rolls eyes	21:35
moontiger	:)	21:35
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pupnik810	what is new for games/emus?	21:38
GeneralAntilles	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3735	21:38
* GeneralAntilles sighs.		21:38
GeneralAntilles	Hey, pupnik810. :)	21:38
pupnik810	hi	21:38
GeneralAntilles	Uh, RST38h's got some cool new optimizations coming for VGBA that should up the speed by a significant amount.	21:38
pupnik810	yaaaay	21:38
pupnik810	hopefully ncompatibility improvements too	21:39
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: that sounds like an instance of maemo summit post-party :P	21:39
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Heh, I experience that bug often. And I agree ;)	21:39
pupnik810	GeneralAntilles, is that nfrom	21:40
pupnik810	a post on ITT?	21:40
GeneralAntilles	Dunno	21:40
GeneralAntilles	I just hate jheather's bugs.	21:40
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, feel free to triage it, then.	21:41
jiiv	stskeeps: i just finished the install, but it doesn't seem to have installed bootmenu (or at least it doesn't tell me to push the menu key, and boots straight to maemo). do i need to do anything different?	21:41
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: But, but, but .....	21:41
Stskeeps	jiiv: yeah, you need to install bootmenu :P http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/dependancies/maemo/bootmenu.deb	21:45
Stskeeps	just run the "Install bootmenu" icon and deblet should automatically appear after this install	21:45
Stskeeps	(it's laying in /etc/bootmenu.d)	21:45
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jiiv	yeah, working on it now :)	21:45
jiiv	didn't the installer do it before?	21:46
Stskeeps	no, it just refreshed bootmenu (copy /etc/bootmenu.d contents to initfs)	21:46
Stskeeps	it doesnt need to do a full reflash so	21:46
jiiv	ah, gotcha.	21:46
moontiger	Stskeeps: do you find the n8x0 more useful with say xfce on it? just curious :)	21:47
moontiger	i mean its way cool to have it working	21:47
Stskeeps	moontiger: i use lxde though - i haven't started using it 100% yet personally, there's still some stuff i want to have for myself	21:47
moontiger	but is it more useful than the default maemo?	21:47
moontiger	lxde is nice too ... is that an option for the deblets stuff?	21:48
Stskeeps	yeah	21:48
GeneralAntilles	Depends on the use-case.	21:48
Stskeeps	basically deblet is for giving people the choice to run whatever hell they want :P a nit-env-hildon will appear at some point too prolly	21:48
GeneralAntilles	Maemo is much more complete solution.	21:48
GeneralAntilles	Much better for mobile use at the moment.	21:49
Stskeeps	for consumer use, yes	21:49
jiiv	well, it's maybe a 'much better integrated' solution.	21:49
jiiv	indeed.	21:49
Stskeeps	i don't deny that	21:49
Stskeeps	maemo is awesome for what it's made for	21:49
jiiv	i think debian is arguably more complete, but maemo's much more polished.	21:49
moontiger	yah i love that you are doing the stuff ur doing ... its awesome	21:49
GeneralAntilles	Well, "more useful than default maemo" can't be answered with "yes".	21:49
jiiv	agreed :)	21:49
moontiger	but i use my n810 for specific things that are served well by maemo right now	21:50
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Stskeeps	moontiger: i'm mainly developing cos it's fun and out of frustration over some problems in maemo	21:50
pupnik810	hi RST38bis !	21:50
moontiger	right ... i agree that there doesnt have to be a specific reason for things :)	21:50
RST38bis	moo, pupnik	21:51
moontiger	just learning is enough	21:51
moontiger	if it makes a useful product too then thats a bonus	21:51
* Stskeeps is really just happy if he has a machine with a mp3 player + a2dp, xournal that automatically rsyncs to his work server and exports to onenote and a rss reader		21:51
Stskeeps	:P	21:51
moontiger	a2dp on lxde?	21:52
RST38bis	negative on a2dp...	21:52
Stskeeps	(that was my wish machine)	21:52
moontiger	ahhh	21:52
moontiger	i use gps mapping stuff + fbreader + vids + music + web + email + skype + ssh + vnc	21:53
moontiger	awesome really	21:53
* RST38bis just wants latest xournal		21:53
Stskeeps	xournal has saved a lot of trees for me	21:53
Stskeeps	i practically stopped using paper besides postits and books	21:54
RST38bis	what do you use books for? =)	21:54
moontiger	the latest version crashed on me	21:54
Stskeeps	i study :/	21:54
Stskeeps	and yes, i read pdfs on my tablet often	21:55
moontiger	i actually donated some $$ to the fbreader guys ... i think that app rocks	21:55
timelyx	GeneralAntilles: re 3735, i actually agree	21:55
timelyx	i don't think i've ever managed to plug my crying device into the charger between its last cry and when it dies	21:56
GeneralAntilles	timelyx, I've experienced it giving a warning and lasting for another hour, though.	21:56
GeneralAntilles	So my own personal experience has led me to believe that it might not be all that easy to pin down.	21:56
* lcuk shakes his fist at timelyx @/		21:59
Stskeeps	but in all, my biggest issue is that the tablet isn't a device i can open up, inspect how it works (in software), alter to my user need easily (easy as in documentation for all aspects of tablet use exists, is reachable easily and programmable easily	21:59
Stskeeps	even though there's probably good reasons for some of them	22:00
moontiger	mostly legal reasons i would imagine	22:00
Stskeeps	but then again, i'm a bit of a pervasive/ubiquitous computing person :P	22:00
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pupnik810	i want eyeglasses display for tablet	22:02
pupnik810	and a kbd that clips onto belt	22:03
jiiv	i'd like to find an eyeglasses display that didn't cost 3x what the tablet did :/	22:03
Stskeeps	mm, augmented reality	22:03
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RST38bis	eyeglasses are damn impractical	22:07
RST38bis	not that hard to get now but impractical	22:07
Stskeeps	i'd take a brain implant	22:08
Stskeeps	:P	22:08
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pupnik810	ttyl	22:08
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GeneralAntilles	jott, what's the word on the bot?	22:10
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jott	GeneralAntilles: it's being worked on :)	22:35
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Stskeeps	jiiv: worked?	22:35
timelyx	lcuk: why?	22:35
jiiv	... kinda ;)	22:35
jiiv	i'm half looking at it now, but work's interfering. may just be the bootmenu.d .item file.	22:35
lcuk	stressing liqbase :P	22:36
Stskeeps	jiiv: k	22:36
* timelyx frowns		22:36
timelyx	that's odd	22:36
* timelyx didn't think that word was public		22:36
lcuk	which word?	22:36
timelyx	i couldn't say :)	22:36
lcuk	then say it privately :)	22:37
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jaredu-n810	yo	22:41
jaredu-n810	whats up all	22:42
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lcuk	hi, nothings up	22:42
lcuk	everyone is happy	22:42
lcuk	and productive	22:42
jaredu-n810	thats rare	22:42
jaredu-n810	lol	22:42
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lcuk	and hungover	22:42
jaredu-n810	oh	22:43
jaredu-n810	well that explains it	22:43
jaredu-n810	lol	22:43
lcuk	lol	22:43
jiiv	stskeeps: the graphical boot should start pretty quickly after 'pivot root and starting /sbin/init..', right?	22:43
jaredu-n810	hmm	22:43
jaredu-n810	i need some good apps for $810	22:44
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jaredu-n810	n*	22:44
jiiv	my most-used are openssh-client, vncviewer, pidgin, and maemo-mapper.	22:44
GeneralAntilles	~musthaves	22:45
GeneralAntilles	infobot?	22:45
GeneralAntilles	~must-haves	22:45
jaredu-n810	i has tghose o.o	22:45
jiiv	i think infobot died.	22:45
GeneralAntilles	~botsnack	22:45
jaredu-n810	maemo mapper doesnt work though	22:45
jiiv	what doesn't it do?	22:45
GeneralAntilles	~bot-cpr	22:45
jaredu-n810	cant read gps file	22:45
GeneralAntilles	jaredu-n810, it works fine.	22:45
timelyx	GeneralAntilles: there are actually a couple of woarnings, not just one	22:45
timelyx	s/woar/war/	22:45
GeneralAntilles	You have to use it correctly.	22:45
jiiv	heh	22:45
jaredu-n810	doesnt for me :(	22:46
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jaredu-n810	i tried	22:46
jaredu-n810	and set the reciever to bluetooth too	22:46
jiiv	is it set to bluetooth or gpsd?	22:46
GeneralAntilles	Bluetooth no MAC	22:46
\|\|cw	define doesn't work...	22:46
jiiv	oh.	22:46
jaredu-n810	i left it for 30 mins and never got a fix	22:46
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jaredu-n810	its on bt no mac	22:46
GeneralAntilles	That's the N810, not Maemo Mapper.	22:46
jaredu-n810	?	22:47
\|\|cw	maemo-mapper has a habit of getting me banned from google maps, then I have to open an image directly and follow some intructions to prove I am human	22:47
jaredu-n810	hmm	22:47
lcuk	\|\|cw i fail those turing tests	22:47
jaredu-n810	my settings are right	22:47
jaredu-n810	it just never gets a lock	22:47
jaredu-n810	i got agps too	22:48
\|\|cw	be nice if it had an "insert random delay to act human" feature when downloading an area	22:48
aladds_	Stskeeps: does deblet generate a new MAC for the USB ethernet thingy on each boot?	22:48
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jaredu-n810	what to do...	22:49
jaredu-n810	any other must-haves?	22:49
jaredu-n810	i got like 3 hours till my next class	22:49
jaredu-n810	and im bored lol	22:49
aladds	learn C :P	22:49
* lcuk curses how many batteries my camera goes through		22:49
jaredu-n810	i got mypaint but its slow :(	22:49
jaredu-n810	btw anyone got gizmo?	22:50
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, new camera time.	22:50
GeneralAntilles	Either that, or pick up a pack or two of those Sanyo eneloops.	22:51
lcuk	i went through 12 AAs before the summit trying to make a video of liqbase - in the end the craptop failed first - thankfully there was a full projector	22:51
lcuk	now i need to make another video	22:51
windstorm	HI, anyone met problem about ssh before? I upgrate my OS to the newest, install the rootsh and ssh client and server, without any other action, and I can ssh other machines by my N810 but can not use other machine to ssh my N810	22:51
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windstorm	also get the same result by ping	22:52
GeneralAntilles	WiFi PSM?	22:52
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windstorm	wifi	22:52
GeneralAntilles	Try initiating a connection somewhere from the N810 then ssh into it?	22:52
lcuk	windstorm, check router/firewall configuration, you may have an odd setting lingering somewhere which is blocking a specific port?	22:52
windstorm	I can not ssh my N810 also by usb connection	22:52
GeneralAntilles	Uh	22:52
GeneralAntilles	"Connection refused"?	22:52
windstorm	no, just no response	22:53
windstorm	I followed exactly the same instruction the document told me to do	22:53
windstorm	Now I can not ping N810 whatever method I use......	22:53
lcuk	ok, forget ssh then - if you cannot even ping your machine keep it simple and work out what systems are in the way	22:53
lcuk	whats the host os you are trying from	22:54
windstorm	yeah, I reflash the system, and the same result	22:54
GeneralAntilles	Sure you have the right IP?	22:54
lcuk	im not talking about your nokia	22:54
lcuk	thats normally fine out of the box i believe for ping	22:54
lcuk	im talking about your windows 98 box	22:54
windstorm	98?	22:54
windstorm	you mean my linux machine?	22:54
lcuk	oh, you still on 95? :P	22:54
* lcuk is yanking your chain		22:55
lcuk	and you have a router inbetween?	22:55
windstorm	no, I mean, the ip address should be right, since I ssh my server machine by N810 and check the ip by "netstat"	22:55
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windstorm	the router is belong to my uni	22:55
lcuk	my ubuntu craptop fails at wireless - it works great if it is setup when i boot up, but if i fiddle it wont reconnect	22:55
windstorm	There is a router between N810 and server, but I don't think it's because of it since I can ssh my N810 from my server	22:56
aladds	anyone here know how the deblet usb-ethernet driver works?	22:56
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, how's the outlook looking for the website this week?	22:57
lcuk	so hang on, your n810 can act as client and server perfectly ok between itself and another server, but from one machine elsewhere it wont connect?	22:57
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windstorm	no, it can not act as server	22:58
windstorm	just client	22:58
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, it will all go up together with a version of liqbase	22:58
lcuk	in a very few days i need a small rest and gathering of thoughts first (and some time with missus)	22:59
zap	windstorm: you can ssh into your n810?	22:59
windstorm	but I installed the server and also client	22:59
windstorm	no zap, I can ssh my server, but I can not ssh my N810	23:00
windstorm	also ping	23:00
zap	thats a known feature of n810	23:00
zap	it will switch to power-saving state quickly	23:00
Stskeeps	aladds: possibly	23:00
Stskeeps	aladds: that's a kernel thing though	23:00
aladds	Stskeeps: it does	23:00
zap	to avoid that, launch a ping from your server to your n810	23:00
aladds	any way to make it static	23:00
aladds	?	23:00
Stskeeps	jiiv: aye	23:00
zap	windstorm: and then open some web page	23:00
windstorm	open web page on N810?	23:00
zap	yes	23:00
windstorm	to keep the connection?	23:00
zap	to power up WiFi on N810	23:01
zap	then it won't go down because the ping will keep it up	23:01
windstorm	I will try right now, thanks in advance	23:01
zap	also you may want to change the power saving options in wifi settings	23:01
zap	by default it's in a very aggressive state	23:01
windstorm	by default the wlan idle time is unlimited	23:02
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aladds	Stskeeps: kernel? oh shame	23:02
Dotel	gika	23:02
Dotel	hola	23:02
windstorm	serch interval is 10 minutes	23:02
windstorm	you mean this?	23:02
GeneralAntilles	~psm	23:03
GeneralAntilles	Bleh	23:03
GeneralAntilles	http://wiki.maemo.org/Wifi_Power_Saving_Mode_(PSM)	23:03
windstorm	thx, I am gonna look at it	23:04
Stskeeps	jiiv: doesn't show anything?	23:04
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korgoth	io guys	23:04
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korgoth	can anyone tell me if there is a way to tune the keyboard light on the n810	23:05
jaredu-n810	dunno	23:07
jaredu-n810	i think its all off the ambient ligbht sensor	23:07
korgoth	well.. im now in a pure dark room	23:08
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korgoth	and yet my kbd light switches off in a while...	23:08
jiiv	stskeeps: when i try with an .item pointing to mmcblk0 it just reboots, when i do it with mmcblk1 it stops at the pivot root. had to pull the battery to reboot.	23:08
jiiv	or...vice versa, actually.	23:09
jaredu-n810	well	23:09
jaredu-n810	its power savish	23:09
windstorm	hi zap, it doesn't make sense	23:09
windstorm	although I modified the configuration	23:10
Dotel	If I install the 2007-hacker release on my 770, do I pull from 2007 repositories, or can I also pull from 2006?	23:10
Stskeeps	jiiv: hmm. can i see the .item?	23:10
GeneralAntilles	Dotel, 2007	23:11
jiiv	um...sure, just a sec. let me see if i have ssh on it :)	23:11
Dotel	GeneralAntilles, ok, was wondering, because I was lacking Ncurses lib. only found it on the 2006 library. Solved my problem. but made me wonder	23:11
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korgoth	win 2	23:14
korgoth	ops	23:14
jiiv	stskeeps:ITEM_NAME="Deblet on mmcblk1p1"	23:15
jiiv	ITEM_ID="deblet-mmcblk1p1"	23:15
jiiv	ITEM_DEVICE="mmcblk1p1"	23:15
jiiv	ITEM_MODULES="mbcache jbd ext3"	23:15
jiiv	ITEM_FSTYPE="ext3"	23:15
jiiv	ITEM_FSOPTIONS="noatime,ro"	23:15
jiiv	ITEM_LINUXRC="linuxrc"	23:15
jiiv	the other one is the same, :%s/mmcblk1/mmcblk0/	23:15
Stskeeps	eh, my installer made that one?	23:15
jiiv	wait, i have 3. let me look at the other :) it says internal, so i figured it was bad.	23:16
jiiv	ITEM_NAME="Deblet on Internal-MMC-p1"	23:16
jiiv	ITEM_ID="deblet-Internal-MMC-p1"	23:16
jiiv	ITEM_DEVICE="${INT_CARD}p1"	23:16
jiiv	ITEM_MODULES="mbcache jbd ext3"	23:16
jiiv	ITEM_FSTYPE="ext3"	23:16
jiiv	ITEM_FSOPTIONS="noatime,ro"	23:16
jiiv	ITEM_LINUXRC="linuxrc"	23:16
GeneralAntilles	pastebin	23:16
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Stskeeps	yeah, what GA said :P	23:16
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Stskeeps	jiiv: and you made a fresh ext3 system on it on install?	23:17
jiiv	yes.	23:17
jiiv	cfdisked and everything.	23:17
Stskeeps	well the Internal-MMC one is the one my installer made	23:18
Stskeeps	as at the time of install, the partition you selected was the internal card :P	23:18
jiiv	:/ i chose mmcblk1, and it was definitely the right card. 4g.	23:20
Stskeeps	mmk	23:20
Stskeeps	maybe there's a bug in fanoush's script for that or something (what i use to figure it out)	23:20
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Stskeeps	jiiv: you have a machine that's usbnet capable?	23:21
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jiiv	stskeeps: yes, this one is. what should i check?	23:21
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Stskeeps	jiiv: set ip 192.168.2.1 on the machine and telnet to 192.168.2.2 (see if it connects when it stands at the pivot root thing)	23:22
jaredu-n810	anyone know where i can get an snes emulator for n810?	23:23
zap	windstorm: you can't get to ping your NIT?	23:23
windstorm	yeah......	23:24
windstorm	I did the modification	23:24
jaredu-n810	anyone?	23:24
windstorm	to turn off the psm	23:24
zap	you know the ip address of your nit?	23:24
windstorm	yeah	23:25
windstorm	I use my 810 to ssh my hot machine	23:25
zap	ping from pc to nit times out?	23:25
windstorm	y	23:25
windstorm	just no response	23:25
zap	are you on windows?	23:25
windstorm	No	23:25
windstorm	Linux	23:25
windstorm	ubuntu	23:25
zap	ah ok, then leave ping running	23:25
zap	and open some web page	23:25
zap	you must see the ping going on	23:26
windstorm	no......	23:26
windstorm	I opened the wiki	23:27
zap	and the ping isn't going?	23:27
windstorm	but nothing happened	23:27
windstorm	not going	23:27
zap	in this case it's your wifi router	23:27
zap	it's protecting your NIT from connects	23:27
windstorm	Let me see. BTW, if I also can not ssh my 810 by usb connect, what's the most probably reason?	23:28
zap	no idea. it works fine from me, both wifi and usb	23:29
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zap	iirc my router has a option to put the wifi clients in a separate private network	23:29
summatusmentis	I need fremantle	23:30
zap	in which case a wifi client won't be able to reach any local machine, and vice versa	23:30
windstorm	it should be my case, since the router is belong to university and they manage them	23:30
Stskeeps	summatusmentis: heh, that's an early need for something we don't know exactly what is yet ;)	23:30
windstorm	but it makes no sense when it comes to usb connection	23:30
windstorm	and I can reach my 810 via server machine, which is not connected to wifi	23:31
windstorm	no	23:31
windstorm	sorry	23:31
windstorm	I mean reach my server via 810	23:31
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summatusmentis	Stskeeps: it's gonna have kinetic scrolling, so either liqbase needs to incorporate a browser, or I need fremantle :)	23:32
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Stskeeps	jiiv: if it fails i'll try it on a n810 at work probably and see if i can see wtf happens :P	23:34
jaredu-n810	anyone know of a snes emu for n810	23:34
jiiv	stskeeps: i'll keep messing with it. it looks like it's not setting up usb that early ...	23:35
Stskeeps	jiiv: hmm, bad sign	23:35
lcuk	ive wanted a browser for a long time	23:35
Stskeeps	it's the fourth-most thing it does	23:35
zap	windstorm: well, then connect it via usb and try to ping it	23:35
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lcuk	summatusmentis, ^	23:35
summatusmentis	lcuk: well, then hurry up!	23:36
summatusmentis	:)	23:36
summatusmentis	I'd offer to help, but I have no time	23:36
lcuk	i dont know anything like webkit and i dont want to spend time learning to be bogged down	23:36
summatusmentis	could you just modify the scrolling in a current browser, and call it good?	23:37
lcuk	i wrote a html parser but ran out of time myself to finish it off and get live web (thats why we had a picture of the webpage at the summit)	23:37
lcuk	i couldnt, i dont know the first thing about that browser or its peculiarities - it expects to click and browse its not just a drop in thing (the kinetic algo is about 3 lines)	23:38
windstorm	it indicates me that "run-parts"/etc/network/if-up.d/00_proxy_set exit with return code 1"	23:40
GeneralAntilles	summatusmentis, tablet-browser-ui is closed for a stupid reason.	23:40
windstorm	when I do "ifup usb0"	23:40
RST38bis	tablet-browser-ui is an empty shell.	23:41
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jaredu-n810	blah	23:42
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summatusmentis	GeneralAntilles: do we know what the reason is? or it's just closed, therefore stupid?	23:44
GeneralAntilles	Well, Nokia hasn't announced it outright	23:44
GeneralAntilles	but the same stupid reason the rest of their UI stuff is closed.	23:44
GeneralAntilles	"differentiation"	23:44
Stskeeps	how difficult can it be to make a shell around a gecko engine that acts like microb, really?	23:45
Stskeeps	it can probably be hacked up by gtkmozembed in python in an hour	23:45
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GeneralAntilles	Just replace tablet-browser-ui with a community version.	23:45
GeneralAntilles	Use MicroB	23:45
GeneralAntilles	MicroB is the engine.	23:45
Stskeeps	.. or microb	23:45
GeneralAntilles	There's no "replacing" it. :P Just use it.	23:46
windstorm	Anyone know the problem about ""run-parts"/etc/network/if-up.d/00_proxy_set exit with return code 1" when execute "ifup usb0""	23:46
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GeneralAntilles	lardman\|gone, http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard/DSP_Howto	23:50
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Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: hm, that's actually interesting - they beagleboard specific or would work on let's say, tablets?	23:56
GeneralAntilles	It'll work on pretty much anything OMAP3 with a DSP.	23:56
GeneralAntilles	So, OMAP3420-40 and OMAP3515 and OMAP3530.	23:56
Stskeeps	arh, so no omap2 :P	23:56
GeneralAntilles	No	23:56
GeneralAntilles	Different DSP	23:56
Stskeeps	nod	23:57
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Stskeeps	will keep those files in mind though when i get a beagleboard at work though	23:58

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