IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2008-09-21

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crashanddie~lart me00:58
* infobot pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps crashanddie00:58
Proteous~larp me00:59
BlafaselHey. How's the party going?00:59
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lcukhi guys02:22
lcukits not that funny02:22
lcukloäl i am drunk :L02:23
lcukwhos around02:23
* nomis waves02:25
lcukhi nomis02:25
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lcukhow is the party02:25
nomisah, no longer at the party actually.02:25
lcukyer i needed more than pizza02:26
lcukits been a great summit02:28
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lcuki wanna wake up in the morning and go to more sessions02:29
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lcukmeeting up with everyone has been amazing02:29
lcuk"connecting people" :)02:30
nomisheh  :)02:30
lcuki was shitscared before yesterday, now i am simply scared - thankfully i didnt screw up 3 presentations02:31
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crashanddielcuk, so it's all finished?02:36
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crashanddieit's pretty short when you think of it02:36
lcukbut i can test out some networking code this week02:37
lcukall that prep02:37
crashanddieyou heading back home tomorrow?02:37
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lcukin the evening i am siteseeing (and taking notes) tommorow02:38
crashanddielucky bastard02:38
lcuki was on the train earlier and i had no nokia and i felt naked02:38
lcuki had no pen or tablet02:38
crashanddieYour n810 died completely?02:39
lcukthey were charging up02:39
lcukit felt wrong for menot to have it02:39
lcukyes, they02:39
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crashanddiethey as in... my n810s ?02:39
lcuki am on a finnish tablet now :)02:39
crashanddiewell, your02:39
crashanddieyou lucky sob02:40
lcukkb is a bit wrong but its great02:40
crashanddiewimax edition?02:40
lcuki  dont have wimax around me02:40
crashanddieI forgive you then02:40
lcukand the nokian who it was commondeered from happened to have a standard one02:41
lcukit was fuuny, its been an amazing few days and over too quickly02:41
lcukso now i am sat in hotel bar02:42
crashanddiethey went "hey, Lars, gary needs a new n810, give him yours" "but, you mean... what?" "give him your n810"02:42
crashanddiepoor guy02:42
lcukheh its ok he can get a new one tommorow02:43
lcukhave a cig with me02:43
crashanddieYeah, but still02:43
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crashanddiesure, lemme light up02:43
Fatal"your choice, tomorrow, go fetch a new n810 or a job"02:43
lcukok i am in the street02:43
lcukheh lol02:44
lcukthe screen on my original one is really bad comparred to this02:44
crashanddielcuk, dunno if you read your emails02:44
crashanddielcuk, did you see the news about the open source wifi driver?02:44
lcuki put my memory card in and it works02:45
lcukummmm i know nits open now and thats great news02:45
crashanddieyeah, there's still a lot of work to do02:45
crashanddiebut it appears to be quite terrific02:45
lcukyer loads02:45
aspecthow does the 770 compare to the n800? if I'm looking to get a cheap one as a secondary tablet what do I need to be aware of in deciding how much to be willing to pay?02:45
crashanddieThey day injection works02:46
lcukuööö pm me02:46
crashanddieThey day injection works, is the day I release a deb for jasager, and karmetasploit02:46
lcukhang on need more cigs02:47
lcukdamn gotta go over the road i cant do that now ill wait02:49
lcukpm me02:49
crashanddieI did02:50
crashanddieah, no, I forgot to send something... :D I opened the window, but forgot to write xD02:50
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rm_youjust got back, had to pack03:22
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lcukrm_you did khertan return and did jott shke his hand for me03:28
lcuki was really upset i could not find him03:28
* lcuk reads emails03:29
timelesshi lcuk :(03:29
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* ccooke wonders: Was there any suggestion they're going to remove the keyboard from the next model? Or are they not even releasing that sort of detail yet?03:30
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rm_youtimeless: :)03:31
rm_youlcuk: no idea03:31
lcukhi timeless i think i just replied to yours03:32
timelessi think there was a suggestion that we don't release such info as it'd only help our competitors03:32
* lcuk ups his word count03:32
lcukwhy remove kb?03:33
* timeless thinks we should remove the battery, it's heavy :)03:34
lcukcrashanddie - jott ddi stats on his logs and i have a wordcount of 250000 since january03:34
ccooketimeless: Was that in reply to me? (sorry, it's been a long day here!)03:34
ccookeah, right. Thanks, then :-)03:34
lcuki am the blabbermouth03:34
crashanddielcuk, you should be endorsed by IBM03:34
timelesslcuk: i don't understand. I installed libXv03:35
lcukafter we left the party i was speaking to marius about getting irc stats support proper with his bot03:35
lcuktimeless, im not sure, but if its saying no adapters i tend to believe it, i cant look now, but it could simply be not having the specific format required03:37
crashanddielcuk, there's this awesome song, one of the few french songs I really like03:37
lcuki will find out for you03:37
timelessaliasing is a feature to consider. The stats include it. Although perhaps losing the distinction between timelyx and timeless would be a bad thing...03:37
crashanddielcuk, artist: "La rue kétanou", title: "tu parles trop"03:37
crashanddietranslation: "you talk too much" :D03:37
lcuki cant check now, send me mp303:37
crashanddieI don't do mp303:37
crashanddieI'll send you a deezer link03:38
lcuk1/4 of a million words!03:38
crashanddieThe only .wav stuff I have I'm not allowed to give away03:38
crashanddie(about 20gig)03:38
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lcukim not a joe on the street though :P03:39
lcukstream it03:39
lcukill borrow it lol03:39
gregoroviusare there videos of the summit available?03:39
* timeless vaguely wonders what an adapter is03:39
lcuktimeless, did my liqbase demo work then - did i do the right thingsÅ03:40
crashanddieI'm not bitchy about a lot of things, but music piracy is one of the very few topics that really tickles the wrong spot :P03:40
timelessfwiw, i had to install libXv myself w/ apt-get..03:40
crashanddies/I'm not/I know I'm extremely/03:40
infobotcrashanddie meant: I know I'm extremely bitchy about a lot of things, but music piracy is one of the very few topics that really tickles the wrong spot :P03:40
lcuklol when i get back inffront of my real  system i will check for you03:40
lcukcrash, but an advert is a good thing03:41
* lcuk carries on reading emails03:42
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elektfunny song03:42
crashanddielcuk, oh, and btw, while we're on the good news topic03:46
crashanddielcuk, I was told I was the preferred candidate (even after the internal candidates), they're doing a background check on me and my CV, and I have an 80-90% chance of getting the job03:47
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lcukthats the spirit03:47
lcukbullshit my nokia craps out with flaxh03:48
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lcukits working ok now, im surprised by  how well my demo looks03:49
lcukbut how dated it is as well03:50
lcukand the focus is not right03:50
lcukthe 6 browesr windows ive got open are not doing much but theyoutube tab is killing i03:51
ccookeHmm. Is there any place where a list of necessary work exists in maemo (or the community at large)? I'm looking for a useful timesink for the next few evenings.03:51
ccookelcuk: I have a vague feeling from my own use that six windows hits some resource limitations03:51
lcuknahh its fine - at least it was until i started viewing live youtube03:52
elekt6 windows?03:53
lcukbut its fine again and i have now 8 tabs03:53
elektwhoa, tabs?03:53
ccookelcuk: swap space enabled?03:53
lcukmust be03:53
ccookelcuk: so, you probably just swapped a load of stuff out.03:53
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ccookeswapping is *slow* on the flash :-)03:53
lcukit wasnt my tasblet until recently,...03:53
ccookelcuk: oh?03:54
lcukheh, it could be a custom one, im fecked if i know03:54
ccookelcuk: how come?03:55
lcukhow do i find out the specs/revision03:55
ccookeThere's an about dialog...03:55
lcukcos i have worn out my current touchscreen03:55
lcuk-w   e03:55
ccookeIn the control panel, top left. About Product.03:56
ccookeof course, that's only model name and firmware release03:56
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lcuki think its a standard model03:57
ccookeWhat made you think it might not be?03:57
lcukcos it was commondeered from a nokia guy this afternoon :)03:58
lcukcrash did you see the latest version of liqbase i sent you03:59
lcukccooke, yes i worked hard for ti :)03:59
ccookelcuk: I take it you were presenting something? (sorry, I'm pretty tangential in this community!)03:59
rm_yougah sleep... waking in 2.5 hours ....03:59
lcukrm_you, have a safe trip home, i really enjoyed meeting you and i will see you again soon i hope04:00
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rm_youyeah, same :) ttyl04:01
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lcukccooke, we have just finished the 1st maemo summit and we have met about 200 of the best minds in the world04:02
ccookelcuk: Yeah, heard about it on Thursday. I was very tempted to jump on a plane Friday morning :-)04:03
lcuki am rather drunk in a berlin hotel room feeling quite good04:03
* ccooke grins04:03
lcukyou shouldv04:03
lcukthere was so much happening04:04
ccookeit sounds like a lot of fun04:04
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ccookeMaybe next time I'll have actually contributed something, so I'll feel justified in going ;-)04:05
lcukit was based in a place called c-base which is an alienspaceship from the future or something, thehosts gave us such a warm welcome adn made the experience really pleasant04:05
ccooke200 people, you say?04:05
ccookenot bad for a first year!04:06
lcukyer it was an amazing time04:06
lcukmaemo has been alive since 2005 or 6 i think04:06
lcukthe 770 (8%(3@ 85 9##04:06
ccookeyeah. I remember it coming out. The n810 is the first device that fit for me, though. I can't work without a keyboard04:07
ccookeThe n810 is, however, the most successful PDA-style device I've owned, going back a decade.04:08
ccooke(successful in a personal sense: I spend more time using it and use its capabilities to a greater extent than any previous device)04:08
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Jareduhey guys wassap04:37
evaryontJaredu: don't think you know of an app for n8x0 for flickr?04:38
Jaredugood question04:38
Jareduhave you tried
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evaryontah. sorry04:48
evaryontJaredu: I have, but nothing turned up (it seemed)04:48
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b1ackdeathdose any one know a good tutorial for porting applications beside the Maemo Diablo Reference Manua07:16
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elektanything new on the dsp side?07:40
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summatusmentisI have not been paying attention, have there been more announcements wrt n900 and maemo 5?09:14
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* Stskeeps has not really heard anything interesting since friday09:19
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summatusmentisand friday was minor spec announcments, and maemo 5 announcement?09:20
lcuki dont think anything conrete redally got announced, was mainly about user apps and dev and community from the stuff i saw09:22
lcukreally *09:22
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* lcuk mightv just missed it by smokin tho09:23
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lcukhmm how do i gainroot, whats the package name09:26
summatusmentislcuk: I thought they announced base specs for the next tablet revision09:27
lcukyer that was before friday tho wasnt it09:27
lcukat osim09:28
* lcuk is nursing a sore head09:28
lcukand increasing his word count09:28
Stskeepslcuk: rootsh?09:28
lcukill look09:29
summatusmentisso I downloaded the Android SDK, I'm kind of excited09:29
lcuksts excellent thanks, im sat eating breakfast and internet searchin on this device is not simple09:31
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* lcuk needs irc in liqbase09:48
summatusmentisis there new functionality in liqbase?09:49
lcuki dunno what you considr new09:50
lcukthere should be a package in a week or so09:50
lcukthe sketching has tools09:50
summatusmentisnewest thing I've got a is a playtest09:50
lcuktheres a camera module play thing09:50
lcuka berlin metro map :D09:51
summatusmentisberlin metro map doesn't help me in rural MN :)09:51
lcukgraffiti now allows reediting09:51
summatusmentisoh, that's cool09:51
lcukmove to berlin09:51
summatusmentisyou've been busy09:51
summatusmentisthat'd be hard to do09:51
lcukwhats hard?09:52
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summatusmentismoving to berlin09:52
lcuknow really, build a maemo spaceship09:52
summatusmentisI'll get on that :)09:52
lcukif you need plans cntact c-base09:52
lcukshould i have a controvercial 4th cup of coffee for breakfast?09:53
summatusmentis:) **09:53
lcukdamn the woman infrnt has broken the machine09:54
summatusmentisoh lame09:55
lcukthe hotel woman will sortit, the user interface makes it easy for user to crash it09:55
jaskamicrosoft coffee09:56
lcukshe pressed everybtton multiple times09:56
lcukshe got half a cup of hot water out of the opposite spout09:57
jaskapress button, receive fail09:57
lcuki prefer bacon09:57
jaskame too09:57
lcukliqbase includes bacon09:58
jaskaslightly offtopic but someone should make a real bacon vending machine09:58
lcukthe bast bacon thing i know is the bacon alarmclock09:58
lcukyou wake p to cooked rasher and smell09:59
lcuk(serious product)09:59
* lcuk tries for more coffee09:59
lcukdoes anyone have a link to jotts stats, yer rst10:05
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RST38hmoo qwerty10:06
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qwerty12hey RST38h10:06
lcukive not tried doin irc on the move before10:06
lcukhi qwerty10:06
qwerty12Didn't realise I was connected lol, ndiswrapper pissing me around10:06
RST38hlcuk: Just think of how many little pink piglets you have devoured by now!10:07
qwerty12hi lcuk10:07
RST38hlcuk: May their horrified oinking haunt your dreams! =)10:07
lcukjust think of how many cows you have left voiceless by stealing their mooo10:07
* lcuk adds an icon to liqbase on new 81010:08
lcuki was sat on the metro last night wapping memory cardd10:09
summatusmentisnew n810?10:09
lcukppl gave me funny looks10:09
lcukive worn the screen out on old one10:10
RST38hthat's what development on the tablet does to it =)10:10
lcukyer its responsiveness was going in the area i stoke too much10:10
lcuki  couldnt use finger10:10
lcukthis one is much better10:11
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lcukit still worked with stylus, but was deffo not as sensitive10:11
lcukive just realised how my workcount is so high10:12
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lcukcan someone check scrollback and find jotts irc stats page please10:14
acydlordi dont have that far back sadly10:16
acydlordwhich reminds me my logs arent on10:17
lcuknice thx qwerty10:17
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qwerty12(anything to get my10:18
qwerty12line count up) :P10:18
lcuki was speaking to marius lastnight and pushed him to add live versions of these for povbot10:18
Proteousor should I say10:18
qwerty12lcuk: that would be cool10:19
lcukthe scariest part is my wordcount10:19
Proteousyou are a wordy fuck10:19
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lcukyes it would be, it should be included in karma10:19
Proteousnever use one word where 3 words would be just as good10:19
lcukyer but i didnt know it was that much10:19
lcukand i still managed to code up liqbase10:20
qwerty12"Is gribouille stupid or just asking too many questions? 53.3% lines contained a question! " lol10:20
Proteousor should I say never use only one word in a short phrase when you could extend the phrase out to multiple words, maybe even three or more10:20
qwerty12"jason__ has quite a potty mouth. 1.7% words were foul language. "10:20
qwerty12That title should have gone to me10:20
lcukbattery low, brb gonna switch10:21
lcukcrap its upstairs10:21
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lcuki left ireless on lastnight10:21
qwerty12I swear I get headaches when I leave the wireless on and go to sleep >.<10:21
ccookelcuk: that shouldn't drain the power much...10:22
lcukit waws not fully charged any way10:22
lcukand thats normal from my home experience10:23
ProteousI get a headache when I drink too much, but I don't let that stop me10:23
qwerty12Hehe, but I have no reason to leave it on though as well10:24
lcukwell i drunk lastnight and collapsed on bed :) ive had a great few days10:24
qwerty12For educational purposes, how is Germany on their drug laws?10:25
lcukif i have charger in i should be able to switch battery without powering down10:25
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lcuki dunno10:25
qwerty12I'll go there someday and find out :P10:25
lcukwhen your mum lets you10:26
Proteousdon't bring his mum into this10:26
* ccooke finally gets around to googling liqbase. Looks wonderful...10:26
qwerty12For now I have to resist the urge of strangling fprobe and libpcap10:26
RST38hplease do10:27
RST38hand make a video!10:27
lcukccooke you are not the only one to think that10:28
ccookelcuk: *grin*10:28
qwerty12lcuk: I'm still waiting for the version that does the washing up10:28
lcuki best get packed up im leaving berlin today and im sad to go10:28
lcukheh this one has bacon10:28
ccookelcuk: by the way, are you from Bradford?10:29
lcukshit ive got so much to pack10:29
ccookeheh. Your accennt is pretty close :-)10:29
lcuki need a maid10:29
* qwerty12 is proud to say my Yorkshire accent has dropped dramatically due to living in London10:29
lcukproximity to southerners does that10:30
RST38hbtw gentlemen, I found what browserd is doing while hanging10:30
lcukhanging tough?10:30
RST38hgettimeofday(). lots of it.10:31
lcukim gonna go, bbl10:31
ccookeqwerty12: heh. Mine was never very strong, and moving about the South the last ten years has pretty much got buried it10:31
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ccookeRST38h: gah.10:32
ccookeRST38h: gettimeofday() is the current bane of my existance10:33
qwerty12ccooke: heh, for me, people can tell that I'm not from London but I don't speak with a London accent either so I'm pretty confused :P10:33
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* qwerty12 waits for to open10:34
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ccookeqwerty12: I just confuse people. My mum was Welsh, my Dad from Derbyshire, Both of them lost their accents mostly and I grew up near Bradford. Strange mix, but I'm told it's still a bit Northern :-)10:35
qwerty12lol :)10:36
ccookeby the way, would anyone (else) here be interested in an entirely offline RSS reader?10:38
Proteousonly if it can download my feeds without needing a connection10:39
ccookeProteous: heh.10:39
ccookeProteous: mine is server based. The server updates the tablet via rsync.10:39
StsN800i would, atleast one that doesn't require me to click DEFAULT connection all the time10:39
liriccooke: definitely would but it would have to be able to handle non-standard rss feeds as well as hebrew :)10:40
StsN800ccooke, i had problems with that due to power saving in wifi conn10:40
ccookeliri: my wife is from Israel, and she also has an n810 and RSS habit :-)10:40
liriccooke: I can say that I tried both the default rss reader and liferea and none of them can handle hebrew or the rss feeds I give it (because they are probably not 100% compliant with the standards)10:41
liriccooke: lol, small world eh? :)10:41
liriccooke: well then, all the more reasons to have a proper rss reade10:41
StsN800so even if tablet is associated it is not always connectable from outside10:41
ccookewhat I'm actually doing is fetching the rss on a server, parsing the links, then downloading everhthing necessary to view the page10:42
ccookeevery link is rewritten to go via a CGI script, which checks for a cached copy of the page. if it doesn't find a cache, it redirects to the real website10:43
liriccooke: so you'd require a server for that?10:43
ccookeso, you rsync the cache onto the tablet, which runs a tiny httpd10:43
ccookethe cache generator builds index pages for each day10:44
ccookethttpd takes upjust under 2 meg of RAM, which is usually swapped out.10:45
qwerty12I like that idea very much, I get annoyed when I see the headline and a bit of text underneath but no internet connection for me to access the site.10:46
ccookethe CGI is in shell script, for maximum speed without having anything resident10:46
liriuhmm, I don't know, sound a bit of an overkill10:46
ccookeqwerty12: that's what always irritates me about rss10:46
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qwerty12Yeah :)10:46
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ccookeliri: the basic thing is, you view the rss links exactly as they're supposed to be viewed - on the original site10:47
qwerty12I'm already running an httpd for gstmpjg so I'm not bothered on that front10:47
ccookelirc: as long as you have swap, you'll never see any performance hit with using the server - and even without it'd be tiny10:48
RST38hccooke: do you also call it in a tight loop? =)10:48
ccookeyou call it from the standard web browser... I mean, it *is* the best tool for html on the device...10:49
liriso you would need to process these links using a program on a desktop linux or something, and then transfer the web pages to the tablet?10:51
ccookewhat I need to do is write a pull-style transfer instead of push.10:52
ccookesay, have the server make tarballs of the day-to-day changes10:52
lirihow about this - let's make it a web service rather than a tool?10:52
ccookeliri: explain...?10:53
StsN800aren't we a bit over in offline google reader then?10:53
ccookeStsN800: I've yet to see that working on a nokia10:54
ccookespent two days trawling every offline reader I could find10:54
liriccooke: I mean let's not make this software oriented but rather web (2.0?) oriented. let's put up a domain ( where users can register and create their own offline contents from websites/rss's and it would create for them a daily/weekly tar file which is then configured on the tablet to auto-sync with10:55
ccookeand none of them actually do what this does anyway, as far as I can tell10:55
StsN800i've seen tools for building rss feed+referred pages atleast10:55
ccookeliri: apoh, that. Yes, that was where I'm aiming asking in here.10:55
StsN800the problem is downloading on a schedule from tablets10:55
ccookeliri: that's also why I need to get rid of rsync as the update mechanism.10:56
ccookeStsN800: cron plus a shell script will do it :-)10:56
liriccooke: I mean, I think a service for these kind of things is more "friendly" than having a person run some scripts on a linux server then worry about rsyncing it.. ahh, that doesn't sound like something I'm going to do daily/weekly just to read news on the tablet10:56
liriccooke: the rsync is not the problem, the work here would be to create such website10:57
ccookenot really10:57
liriStsN800: I don't think scheduling is an issue, this can be an on-demand retrieval thing10:57
ccookeI'm not a frontend coder, but I've built a good few servers and sites... and I have reliable web servers10:58
liriccooke: well I'm no guru at all these web technologies so... to make something professional I'm guessing would take some effort10:58
liriccooke: well then, I'm all up for it, shall we get going then? :)10:58
ccookeliri: *grin*10:58
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liriccooke: this idea actually relates very much to my wish to have an update-able recipe manager for the kitchen :)10:59
ccookeokay, so. People would be interested in something like this. Good.11:00
ccookeliri: that makes sense, yes11:00
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liriccooke: well I don't know about "People"... we're just 3 guys here discussing this. I say, summarize this talk and put it on ITT and let's see what others have to say. Let's see if everyone think it's a good idea to have "subscriptions" to rss feeds which are synced for offline viewing11:01
liriccooke: well it makes alot of sense because then the wife can't say "I don't have any idea what to cook!" hehe11:01
ccookeI can probably get something that's ugly but functional up and working in the next day or so, actually. Probably manual sync initially, though11:01
ccookeby 'people', I really mean 'more than me'.11:02
ccookeI'm bored and looking for something to code11:02
ccookeanything will do, so long as it's not wasted effort11:03
ccookeand, since I'm a sysadmin, most of what I code is plumbing. Not something you can get people too interested in :-)11:03
liriI hear ya pal11:04
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ccookeRight. That's a minor challenge set for me - a functional website before I go to the pub this evening :-)11:05
* qwerty12 has to stifle a laugh seeing the latest spam on itt11:05
liriccooke: if you have the time, put it on ITT, it's interesting to see if other users would have more ideas11:06
* qwerty12 installed bash-completion on my tablet yesterday. I swear I'm loving not using busybox's ash by the minute11:09
ccookeliri: can do.11:09
ccookedon't ghink I've ever posted there yet.11:10
liriwell there's always a first time11:10
* Italodance [Nick: Italodance] [Server:] [Server UpTime: 1day 3hrs 32mins 26secs] [mIRC UpTime: 1day 3hrs 34mins 12secs] [] [CPU: 1-Intel Pentium 4, 2395MHz, 0KB (0% Load) ]11:11
* Italodance [WinXP UpTime: 1day 3hrs 37mins 38secs] [Idle: 1day 3hrs 28mins 25secs] [Time&Date: 11:40:56 × 21/09/2008] [DCC Gets: 0/0] [DCC Sends: 0/0] [Memory Usage: 306/512MB (59.77%) ]11:11
liriccooke: thinking about it more, it could probably be extended to more than just "rss", just like the recipe content... so I think we're onto something here11:11
ccookehmm. what were you thinking of?11:12
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liriccooke: well the recipe thing is one idea but I think there is more content than just that that people would want. I can't put my finger on it just yet but I'm sure others would enlighten us11:14
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ccookeAh, that's better. Switched from my Nokia to the laptop with a (more) full-sized keyboard!11:16
qwerty12ccooke: Have an N800? :p11:17
ccookeI don't buy devices without a hardware keyboard.11:17
qwerty12Ah, I'm irc'ing with the vkb, I've got pretty used to it11:18
liriyeah, the keyboard is not ALL that comfortable on the n810. I replied an email on it a few days ago... it hurt my fingers :)11:18
qwerty12fingers crossed, that nokia release a better keyboard in the N900 (i'm not a fan of the N810 keyboard)11:18
qwerty12Though I can't deny my only "experience" was in the N810 emulator11:19
ccookeI've been using the n810 to take notes in work meetings since December11:20
ccookeI've ended up surprisingly fast on it.11:20
RST38hqwerty: I have already asked Cthulhu to make Nokia built a better directional pad into N9x0 ! =)11:20
ccookeRST38h: That would be *good*11:21
Proteousa good Dpad and some video accell and we are set11:21
RST38hqwerty: I mean, The Great Green One has heard me about E70 replacement so this request has really good chances too =)11:21
ccookeI'm really hoping they don't remove the keyboard :-/11:21
Proteousme tooo11:22
RST38hthey will remove keyboard, make device of gray plastic and round the corners mylo-style!11:22
ccookeThat's the only thing that would prevent me from buying the new tablet11:22
ccookeRST38h: Nooooo!11:22
qwerty12RST38h: That's great :)11:22
RST38hqwerty: There weren't any Applet nutballs around to make a proper sacrifice though11:23
infobotRST38h meant: qwerty: There weren't any Apple nutballs around to make a proper sacrifice though11:23
qwerty12But yeah, if the keyboard is gone, then I'm not buying the N900. The rest seems *really* good, I hope they don't let it down with no keyboard.11:23
Proteouseven though the n810 keyboard isn't amazing, it's way better then the OSK of my old 77011:24
liriif the gps takes more than 30 seconds to get a lock, ANYWHERE, then I'm not buying the N800 either :)11:24
qwerty12N800 has a gps?!? :P11:24
* liri is talking about N81011:25
StsN800ccooke, cron is unreliable due to it not using retu alarm wakeup11:25
Proteousnot to be confused with crom, who is unreliable because he is a god from the movie conan the barbaian11:25
ccookeStsN800: Right. So we use the alarm, then.11:26
StsN800ccooke, just warning about pitfalls:)11:26
ccookeStsN800: yep. Thanks :-)11:27
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ccookeconsidering the keyboard on the 810, I'm amazed how much I jse it11:28
ccookealthough I do still make some mistakes *grin*11:29
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* RST38h does not use n810 kbd much11:33
RST38hstill mostly using on-screen keyboard11:33
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Stslaptopi would just love a keyboard where the q is actually a little to the left :P11:34
Stslaptopas it's closer to how i normally write11:34
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ccookeyes, that would be good11:40
ccookehell, what I *want* is a PDA with a keyboard to match the Psion 5. But I won't *get* it :-)11:40
Stslaptopi would be happy with that shapewriter or wtf it was called really11:41
Stslaptopfor on screen keyboard11:42
Stslaptopsomeone should really make an input method that acts like that (yes, i'm aware of patent problems)11:42
Stslaptopbut then again that would be a software patent :P11:43
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* Stslap wonders why this train sounds like one of the wheels is cracked11:57
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t_s_oi could have sworn there are previous systems that work like shapewiter, and therefor it cant be patented, or something like that...12:08
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liriI wish there would've been a suite of google apps synchronization (contacts, calendar, notebooks, docs, etc)12:15
Stslapt_s_o: i've seen it before too somewhere though, but that might have been IBM too12:19
Stslapbut it's definately not a T9 idea12:20
t_s_o <- seems there is more then one implementation of the same idea floating around. hard to tell what came first tho12:21
Stslapshapewriter was first afaik12:22
t_s_ounder the name of shark by the looks of it?12:23
t_s_ono wonder i hate sortware patents...12:24
Stslapthere's probably some way around it12:26
aspectapparently all three have patents12:26
aspectyeah the USPTO is crazy clever12:26
t_s_omay we live in interesting times...12:26
Stslapand it just harms innovation really12:27
Stslapi'd rather see the tablet use get increased, giving strength to hw producers12:27
aspectif I were patient enough I'd read all their claims just to point out how similar they are12:27
Stslapand cheaper prices12:27
Stslapthan a bloody patent war12:27
aspectoh, there's an easy way to avoid seeing a patent war12:28
aspectstick your head in the sand12:28
t_s_othe way i see its (and i have a similar issue with copyright) is that the timeframe for a patent is set based on the development time of a physical system. software on the other hand, can come into existence and vanish again in just a year, but a software patent will outlast that at least x10...12:28
Stslapi think i could personally in .dk avoid the US patent obviously, but distributing to US people .debs would be problematic12:28
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Stslapi would actually pay for shapewriter as a HIM12:31
Stslap(it exists for android, linux, mac already)12:32
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Stslap <- kinda odd it doesn't say patent pending or anything12:44
Stslapso i guess it would be okay implementing from12:44
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jotthey folks13:04
jottStslap: just because it's not mentioned it does not mean there isn't a bunch of us patents..13:04
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jottwooo cat attack?13:08
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towoArr, this is one of those channels where I don't have channel operator right.s13:08
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jottqQQQzAZ: move your cat :)13:08
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t_s_ojott: i dont recall ever seeing a cat make such uniform inputs...13:15
yacoobhe just needed to lie down on the keyboard13:15
t_s_oyacoob: maybe so, but i would have expected more keys to be pressed then...13:16
woglindehi jott13:16
woglindejott the keymap trick worked13:16
jottt_s_o: na, cats like to type "z"13:16
woglindefor nxagent13:16
jottah nice.13:16
aspectfunny; this cat only needs to lie on the keyboard while I'm using it13:16
t_s_ook, now i want a cheeseburger...13:16
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jottthe patent lawyer already must have taken stslap :D13:19
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jottlpotter: so was it a cat, child or what? :)13:19
t_s_o <- nokia bug fixer at work?13:19
jottsolve the mystery13:19
lpottercat.. and kid :) sorry13:23
t_s_oheh, must have been one hell of a sight13:24
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Stskeepsjott: nah, train disconnect :>13:45
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Stskeeps'lo aladds_13:46
aladds_ah crap13:46
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Stskeepsaladds: could you ls -lR /lib/dsp for me at some point? (from os2006)13:46
aladdsyeah 'course13:47
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Stskeepsneed to make osso-dsp-modules-su-18 so :P13:47
aladdsfair enough13:47
Stskeepsif you for some reason know how to squeeze out /usr/bin/Xomap from a OS2008 fiasco image you're also welcome (so we can make xserver :P)13:48
Stskeepsalso i made udev-nokernelcheck for 770 purposes13:48
Stskeeps(it adds something to udev.conf that disables kernel check)13:48
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aladdsi don't know how easy it would be to get the file from OS200813:50
aladdsi can give it to you from OS200613:50
aladdsi'd prefer not to reflash though13:50
Stskeepsyeah.. i prefer from OS2008 and i dont want you to reflash either :P13:50
aladdsthen i'd have to reload stuff and redo the bootloader13:50
aladdswhat's the bin file?13:51
aladdsis it just a jffs2 image?13:51
aladdscos i've got it here13:51
Stskeepstry apt-get install 0xffff from deblet, 0xFFFF -e /root/imgdump13:53
Stskeeps(mkdir -p /root/imgdump first)13:53
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aladdslet me reboot13:53
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Stskeepsthat's from OS2006 obviously.13:54
Stskeepsso don't do that :P13:54
aladdsok :P13:54
jottStskeeps: why not compile the xserver instead of extracting it from the image?!13:54
Stskeepsjott: i can't find exact sources for OS2008HE13:54
jottaren't they the same?13:54
Stskeepsbut yes, that's a possibility13:54
Stskeepsno, there's a fix for xorg that isn't in patches13:55
Stskeepsthe binary is easier to get anyhow :P13:55
Stskeepsaladds: flasher-3.0 has an --unpack option13:55
jottStskeeps: hmm only for 770 or what?13:56
Stskeepsjott: yeah13:56
aladdsthere's no flasher-3.0 for osx13:57
aladdsonly up to 2.013:58
aladdsah well13:58
* aladds downloads an ubuntu iso :P13:58
Stskeepsaladds: it doesnt have -u?13:59
jottah btw, dsme will come in 1-2 weeks13:59
aladdsdoesn't look like it13:59
jotttalked to one of the devs yesterday14:00
Stskeepsjott: sounds good14:00
Stskeepsaladds: can you grab the sources thing for me from OS2008HE maybe?14:00
Stskeepsi don't have a MAC handy :P14:00
Stskeepsthen i can maybe compile it on my own14:01
aladdsStskeeps: would it make more sense for me to run debian lenny on the desktop?14:05
Stskeepsaladds: mm, maybe - but it isn't needed14:07
aladdswell, it'll be virtualised, so :P14:08
aladdsand i just got REALLY odd deja-vu14:08
aladdswhich is odd14:08
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aladdsalthough i didn't see the flapjack...14:10
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yacoobcats and bacon don't mix14:25
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Stskeepsi had bacon for breakfast.. mm.14:26
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Stskeepsjott: found xorg sources :P14:34
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RST38hSpeccy-Maemo 1.6.3 is now in Extras14:51
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ccookeliri: You still around?15:03
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RST38hany suggestions on what to use for serial line terminal in linux?15:14
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thuxhi, didn't find telepathy-idle anymore, is it ended?15:14
woglindeRST38h minicom or cutecom15:15
fnordianslipRST38h: i've used screen before15:15
woglindecutecom is nicer, but you can run vi in sane way15:15
woglindecan not15:15
woglindeand no scripting support if I remeber correctly15:16
Stskeepsaladds: apt-get update; apt-get install xserver-xomap-77015:19
aladdsStskeeps: in deblet, yes?15:19
* aladds boots it up15:19
Stskeepsand then try to /usr/bin/Xomap after doing fb_update_mode manual15:23
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thuxcan i get irc and msn support to telepathy or is it osso-chat-ui chavo these dayz?15:26
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aladdsok it's installed15:41
Stskeepsdoes /usr/bin/Xomap run?15:41
aladdsFatal server error:15:41
aladdsLinuxInit: Server must be suid root15:41
aladdsevidently now15:41
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Stskeepsthat's fine, chown root:root /usr/bin/Xomap15:42
Stskeepschmod a+s /usr/bin/Xomap15:42
Stskeepsi did a mistake in packaging which im submitting to packages atm15:42
aladdsit's not too happy15:43
aladdsscreen went black, then gave me a single underscore caret in the top left15:44
Stskeepsthat's fine15:46
aladdsit does sit there at that point though15:46
aladdsdoesn't quit15:47
Stskeepsyeah, it's fine15:47
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Stskeepscan you apt-get install equivs?15:57
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Stskeeps(this will pull in a bit of stuff :/)15:59
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Stskeepswell, or don't.. sec16:00
Stskeepsapt-get update; apt-get install nit-env-basic hal tablet-x x-session16:01
Stskeepsverify it doesn't try to download xserver-xomap (xserver-xomap-770 is okay)16:02
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aladdsshall try16:05
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johnxhmm...there's new svn updates to matchbox-keyboard. maybe one of them has fixes...16:07
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StskeepsBenny1967: sufficient answer to the initfs stuff?16:08
Benny1967omg, didnt return to itt since i posted it ;)16:09
Benny1967so in fact the current way is better?16:10
Stskeepswell it depends on how they're going to do it.16:10
Stskeepsif they allow people to make a grub like bootmenu - it's fantastic16:11
Benny1967no drawbacks with initfs/rootfs?16:11
Stskeepsthere's some, obviously, but i don't mind having a "rescue mode"16:11
Stskeepssince rootfs's tend to get corrupted16:11
aladdsStskeeps: i don't see xserver-xomap in there16:11
Stskeepsyou might have to apt-get upgrade xserver-xomap-770 afterwards16:12
Stskeepsfor good measure16:12
Benny1967but to make it short: "no more initfs" is not the big thing everyone has been waiting for, right?16:13
StskeepsBenny1967: if they don't make a fucked up solution where it can only boot from internal flash, yes16:14
Benny1967thx ;)16:14
Stskeepsit might make other OS'es on tablet easier, but it may also just make it more difficult16:14
Stskeepsthere was a bugzilla thing on this..16:14
aladdsconfiguring console-data16:15
aladdsdon't touch keymap?16:15
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aladdsdoing xomap-zz0 upgrade16:29
Stskeepshehe, Nokia Zz0, the optimized 770 ;)16:30
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johnxZz0 with new optimized sleep mode?16:31
aladdswith any sleep mode would be nice...16:31
johnxput the cover on it? boom!16:31
aladdsnot asleep though16:32
Stskeepsit has a cover sensor? :P16:32 Jobs would say16:32
johnxthe 770?16:32
johnxyeah it had cool stuff16:32
johnxhad a better d-pad too16:32
aladdsit even knows if the battery cover is open16:32
aladdsit's got a lottle reed switch16:32
johnxthe n800 can tell if its battery cover is open and even the other sd card slot, but it never came with a plastic shel/case/thing16:33
Benny1967dont you guys talk about the 770. mine died only a few weeks ago :(16:34
johnxsadness :(16:34
Benny1967apart from being a bit slower it was so much cooler than the N8x016:35
aladdsStskeeps: all installed16:35
Benny1967wsod. how do you know?16:35
Stskeepsaladds: reboot and see if xterm comes up :)16:35
* aladds types reboot16:36
johnxBenny1967, most die that way if they're not physically abused16:36
Stskeepsit's like natural death for 770s, like with humans16:36
Benny1967mhm... i wonder if they'll ever  sell a *mobile* device like the 770 again :(16:37
johnxprobably not16:37
johnxthey'll stick with physical keyboards I bet16:38
* aladds is looking at console messages, which seem static16:38
ccookeI hope so...16:38
johnxand I don't see a cover or true sleep mode coming back16:38
* aladds wonders if he should apt-get remove gpm16:38
ccookeA hard cover would be nice.16:38
Benny1967i can live with a keyboard but not without a cover16:38
ccooketrue sleep mode... I actually think that what the n8x0 do is much better16:39
ccookeBenny1967: I bought a third-party hard shell for my n81016:39
Benny1967no cover = not mobile16:39
johnxccooke, it is for a lot of people a lot of the time16:39
johnxBenny1967, cell phone seem to get by ok16:39
ccookejohnx: it's certainly *impressive*. It's one place where the Nokias are a length ahead of any competitor16:40
Benny1967me too, my N800 now lives within an ugly leather case....16:40
Stskeeps"true sleep mode"?16:40
johnxStskeeps, uhm, suspend to RAM16:40
Benny1967... but it has no way of knowing if the cover is closed so that it can sleep.16:40
ccookeBenny1967: ah. the aluminium cover for the n810 is actually really nice. It leaves the external buttons accessible16:41
* aladds noices the screen has gone black16:41
Stskeepsany xterm popping up yet? :P16:41
Stskeepsjohnx: i'm planning to play a little with n800-s2ram at some point and deblet16:41
aladdsnot yet16:41
ccookeBenny1967: on the n810, there's autolock - lock the screen whenever it goes dark. Now *that* should be installed as a standard option!16:41
johnxwith the n810 you can do clever things about locking/sleeping when the light sensor detects inactivity and complete darkness16:41
aladdsi just have black atm16:41
Stskeepsaladds: could you give me a ps aux?16:41
aladdsalready done16:42
aladdsand a top16:42
Stskeepseh, is that ps aux complete?16:43
Benny1967i dont trust all these intelligent modes... the 770s magnetic switch was it. ;)16:43
Stskeepsthere seem to be missing udev and all that jazz16:43
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qwerty12_N800quick question, for mount.cifs to work, does cifs.ko need to be insmodded?16:43
Stskeepsokay, so no X running16:43
ccookeBenny1967: heh. The thing is, going to sleep is actually against what the device is billed as, though16:43
Stskeeps /etc/init.d/x-session start16:44
ccookeBenny1967: it's supposed to be always on - so IM stays connected, it can update stuff...16:44
aladdsFatal server error:16:44
aladdsomapCardInit: couldn't open dispc gfx plane16:44
aladdswaiting for X server to begin accepting connections16:44
aladdsgiving up.16:44
aladdsxinit:  Connection reset by peer (errno 104):  unable to connect to X server16:44
aladdsxinit:  No such process (errno 3):  Server error.16:44
qwerty12_N800Benny1967: closing the cover would put it in softpoweroff which can still be used on the n8x0 but with nowhere near the easiness16:44
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Stskeepsaladds: think i've been here before..16:45
Benny1967;) i know what nokia wants it to do. i just prefer my devices to do what I want them to.16:45
Benny1967else i'd buy apple16:45
* aladds buys apple anyway, most of what they do is what i want16:45
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aladdsand for what they don't, i'm learning objective-c :P16:46
* johnx keeps getting torn between mac os x and linux, but is on a linux kick right now16:46
Stskeepsaladds: apt-get remove x-session, apt-get install gdm lxde tablet-gdm-autologin  xsession-gtkstylus matchbox-keyboard16:46
Stskeepsand dpkg --purge x-session16:46
Benny1967apple really frightens me to death16:46
johnxBenny1967, "our way or the highway"?16:47
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johnxor something else? the zealots? the koolaid?16:47
ccookeI *like* apple... but they have, as yet, failed to make a single product I would ever buy16:48
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aladdsnot even the 12" powerbook?16:48
aladdsit was so cute16:48
ccookeActually, I tell a lie - I've thought about buying an ipod nano, but I already had a solution for music I was happy with16:48
Stskeepsaladds: running out of SD space yet? :P16:48
ccookealadds: I bought one for my wife. She still uses it.16:48
ccookeand yes, it's cute!16:49
johnxmy next laptop is either macbook or a lenovo x20016:49
aladdsStskeeps: nah, only 31% used16:49
ccookeBut it takes me several hours (including searches and downloads) to get OSX to a point where I don't *mind* using it. Wheras I can configure an Ubuntu box the way I like it in about 20 minutes.16:49
derfMy next laptop I want one of those ultra-light 1kg ones.16:50
* aladds has a black macbook16:50
aladdsit's awsome16:50
aladdsand i can run other OSs inside it anyway16:50
aladdsSun's xVM is free :-)16:50
ccookealadds: yes, but if you're buying a macbook in order to rip away OSX, then that *has* to be a negative. For a start, every *other* os uses a second mouse button...16:51
aladdsStskeeps: now it wants to use 199MB of space :P16:51
johnxin my case, the macbook is a pretty big size/price/weight premium for the privilege of running osx16:51
Stskeepsaladds: aye16:51
aladdsccooke: i use osx all the time, it's the best OS I've ever used16:52
aladdsLinux comes close16:52
ccookeThe closest I've come to buying an Apple machine was the last time I bought a laptop, two years ago. But at the time, their 17" macbook pros were... well, pretty pathetic, actually16:52
ccookealadds: It's very nice, but it doesn't think the way I think.16:52
aladdsthe older MacBook Pros were16:52
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aladdsccooke: I came from Mac OS 9 land, so OSX was a very welcome change16:53
ccookealadds: yeah. I had a nice conversation with an Apple guy on the plane home from Tokyo a couple of years back, asking for higher resolution screens and better graphics :-)16:53
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Benny1967hehe ... "but it doesn't think the way I think."16:53
Benny1967that's it16:53
ccookeBenny1967: you understand me, yes?16:53
johnxccooke, I know what you mean. :)16:54
Benny19672 friends of mine run osx16:54
aladdsmany of mine do16:54
Benny1967i cant use these computers16:54
ccookeBenny1967: It's based on some fundamental assumptions of how you will work. Those assumptions are *better* than the ones Windows uses, for instance16:54
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ccookebut I have been using unix - in text mode, mainly - for more than 15 years.16:54
johnxif linux doesn't work the way you want it to, you tell it to do something different. but with osx it's really counterproductive to try and make it do something differently16:54
ccookeI do *not* think that way :-)16:54
johnxccooke, exactly16:55
Benny1967each time i want to resize a window i go mad16:55
aladdsI agree with the stupid zoom button16:55
johnxfor some people osx works really well. for a lot of things I needed to do at the time it worked really well. but I always came back to linux in the end16:55
aladdssome applications work, some don't16:55
Benny1967or: it took me ages to find out where minimized applications go16:55
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johnxaladds, actually in the zoom vs maximize debate I fall on the osx side :D16:56
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johnxI never maximize apps anyways16:56
aladdsfair enough16:56
aladdswith laptop screens it's better when you do16:56
Benny1967it's just like it's from another planet16:56
johnxit's a waste of screen real estate. so what I really want an app to do is "resize until all the contents fit"16:56
johnxsaves me doing that by hand since that's what I want 90% of the time16:57
aladdswhat annoys me about the zoom buttons though is how it's not consistant16:57
derfIs there really no way to mark a bug as a duplicate on garage?16:57
Stskeepsjohnx: isn't it possible to tell openbox to take a window with a class/name and make it appear like a taskbar?16:57
johnxbut I can't deal with click to focus on a laptop/desktop16:57
Stskeepsjohnx: because that'd give us h-i-m in openbox16:57
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Stskeeps(you know, docking)16:57
johnxStskeeps, I'll see if the h-i-m window is gives us the right info16:57
ccookejohnx: ugh, I hate having to click on things to focus. And I can't work without multiple desktops.16:58
Stskeepsit might have to resize it and stuff16:58
johnxresize is doable I think16:58
johnxStskeeps, what's the package again?16:58
Stskeepsjohnx: for h-i-m?16:58
aladdsccooke: osx has multiple desktops now16:58
Stskeepsjohnx: did you see qole's hillarious h-i-m screenshot in easy debian?16:59
ccookealadds: yes. That's one application of the dozen or so I wouldn't have to find in order to not get *too* badly frustrated ;-)16:59
johnxStskeeps, not yet16:59
ccookealadds: maybe in another decade or so, I'll buy an OSX machine...16:59
johnxccooke, it's integrated now16:59
aladdsI am loving Time Machine though17:00
aladdsbackup you can forget about :P17:00
ccookeyeah, that's a nice piece of software17:00
Benny1967ah, flickr.... rrainisto? r u here or anyone who knows him?17:00
aladdsi only have to remember to plug my big drive into it every now and again17:00
johnxaladds, a nice wrapper around lvm2+rdiff snapshots essentially17:00
aladdsyeah, but it has a nice interface :P17:01
aladdseverything in OSX has polish17:01
aladdsand i like that17:01
aladdsit's all finished17:01
Stskeepsjohnx: instructions at
aladdsit all works17:01
johnxaladds, well it's all finished...and if you find anything that's not finished you have to wait for someone else to fix it or do without17:01
Stskeepsaladds: still downloading? :P17:02
aladdsStskeeps: as you said that it finished downloading17:02
Benny1967aladds, but it doesn't work the way i want it to.17:02
ccookealadds: Yeah, it's a really nice system.17:02
aladdsgranted, perhaps not how you want it to17:03
aladdsbrb phone17:03
Benny1967and being pretty isn't  enough for a long time relationship17:03
johnxI loved osx about 80% of the time, tolerated it 10% and was in a screaming rage at it the other 10%17:03
aladdsback perhaps not17:03
ccookejohnx: I'm around 50/20/30, unfortunately.17:03
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Stskeepsi wonder what the % is for maemo :P17:03
Stskeepsi'm a 60% 20% 20% or something17:04
aladdsmy linux experience isn't amazing i have to say17:04
ccookeStskeeps: maemo is... not polished. But it's actually *functional*, which makes up for a lot.17:04
aladdsi used to run ubuntu on a vaio17:04
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aladdsthe hardware was so poor...17:04
Benny1967but i'm probably applecally challenged or so.... i couldn't use an iphone either.17:04
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aladdsi would *never* buy sony computers17:04
aladds(it was free)17:05
Benny1967just couldn't type, couldn't surf, couldn't do anything17:05
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Stskeepsaladds: nice newton pics btw on flickr :P17:05
aladdsoh the iPhone is awsome17:05
aladdsoh i forgot about those17:05
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aladdsi also has a 13017:05
Benny1967aladds, not if you want to type a mail17:05
ccookeheh. iphone is, again, a really great device I have no temptation to buy17:06
aladdsthe on screen keyboard on the iPhone is the best of any device so far17:06
ccookefor the things I want to do, it can't compare at all to the n81017:06
johnxaladds, you should try the n800's onscreen thumb keyboard17:06
Benny1967aladds, in terms of what? i cannot  type on that thing17:07
ccookejohnx: yeah, that's surprisingly good17:07
aladdsi've used it on OS2008HE17:07
aladdsit's ok, but you can't see anything else17:07
Benny1967in landscape mode i could, very slowly, but else... no way17:07
johnxaladds, but you can type faster with it...17:07
aladdsi've only used it in the shop though17:08
ccookealadds: the iphone one is fine as long as you have small fingers. Unfortunately, while I *do* have small fingers... they're small for a 6'8" guy with huge bones :-)17:08
johnxbut yeah, the iphone is another great product as long as it does everything you want already17:08
aladdsand i was comparing it to my current phone, which sucks17:08
aladdsjohnx: agreed17:08
Benny1967johnx, it's the other way round: as long as you want what it allows17:09
aladdsas a mobile phone, i think it's the best you can buy17:09
aladdscomparing it to SE or Nokia S6017:09
ccookealadds: please qualify that... it's the best *you* can buy :-)17:09
johnxBenny1967, either way, don't get it with the thought of bending it to your will. it's quite the other way around17:09
ccookeThe iphone is actually pretty shit in several categories...17:10
Benny1967aladds, except that as a phone it's really bad and drops calls.17:10
aladdsccooke: it's too expesive though :(17:10
aladdsBenny1967: that depends on service mainly17:10
ccookealadds: that's one of them. Another is if you're after a camera phone.17:10
johnxaladds, except that it's worse than other phones on the same service all over the world17:10
johnxthough that has been improved, IIRC17:11
Benny1967also, you might want a phone that you can type on. with real keys.17:11
aladdsi think for apple's second phone it's fucking incredible17:11
ccookejohnx: that's bad, but it *will* get sorted out. It's poor QA, though.17:11
ccookealadds: see, there's the problem - you're giving them the benefit of the doubt automatically.17:11
aladdsBenny1967: but are there any phones with real keys which have *good* keyboards? :P17:12
aladdsPalms have teensey keys17:12
ccookealadds: wheras... Apple are a vast, multibillion dollar enterprise. They have more than enough money to get things very well tested; that they didn't is *a mistake* that they should have known better for.17:12
Benny1967ccooke, people do so because it's "pretty". nothing else counts.17:12
ccookeIt's not a mistake that's too *huge*, mind - they'll improve on it and I do believe they'll learn. However, it's still a big error!17:13
johnxaladds, all it matters is how fast you can type. blackberry and treo users will be able to type faster than iphone users17:13
Benny1967aladds, any normal phone with numeric keys and t9 is better for typing (for me)17:13
ccooke(um. I mean: It's not something to flay them alive for, but it *is* something to point to and say "I expected better")17:13
* johnx is disappointed with the trend of reduced tactile feedback in devices :/17:13
aladdsi agree with that actually17:14
ccookejohnx: the n810 is better than I expected... especially with the key click sounds on.17:14
aladdssomeone needs to develop some sort of haptic feedback which doesn't involve a vibrator17:14
darklajidYeah, but an IBM M-Series keyboard on an N810 might look like shit..17:14
ccookebut I'd love something like the Zaurus had (shame that wouldn't slide so well)17:14
johnxthe n810 is actually pleasently the other direction from my complaint17:14
RST38hmoo all17:14
johnxm00 RST38h17:15
RST38hjohnx: there was any tactile feedback in devices before?17:15
RST38hOr do you mean non-flat buttons by this?17:15
johnxRST38h, volume dials instead of unmoving buttons, dpads instead of touchpads17:15
RST38hoh that17:15
johnxthings that you could feel instead of having to look at17:15
aladdsI'd love to know when Access/Palm are releasing something with Access Linux on it17:16
RST38hI can tell you a few horror stories about this stuff ;)17:16
aladdsif that'll ever happen17:16
Benny1967i agree with johnx17:16
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RST38hLike BBK (known as Oppo in US) making a PMP without any real buttons17:16
Stskeepsjohnx: how stable is debian midori btw?17:16
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RST38hIt was a nice looking PMP, slim metal case buttons at the edge17:17
johnxyah, and can people hit the "skip track" button on their ipod (or equivalent) while it's in their pocket?17:17
RST38hUnfortunately, poor thing was so sensitive that it could not figure out what you were pressing17:17
johnxStskeeps, pretty stable.17:17
RST38h(if at all)17:17
aladdsjohnx: they have a remote now17:17
aladdsbut you're right17:17
Benny1967mhm, lunchtime....17:17
johnxStskeeps, playing with new matcgbox-keyboard right now. seeing if it can be made to behave17:17
Stskeepsjohnx: sounds good17:17
Stskeepsaladds: installation still going on?17:17
aladdsStskeeps: gdm at the moment17:18
Benny1967see you later17:18
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RST38hjohnx: afaik, iPods are a bit different17:19
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johnxRST38h, when I said equivalent I meant any mp3 player these days17:20
RST38hjohnx: they rely on triggering multiple sensors in a certain order17:20
johnxmost fail the the "change tracks without looking at it test"17:20
RST38hjohnx: well, it is RIGHT dpad direction on my E70 :)17:21
RST38hAnd no, I have no idea why people buy those players at the first place17:21
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johnxheh...same reason they buy heavy laptops with poor battery life: failure to critically think about their own use case17:22
aladdsmy Sony K750i uses the volume buttons to change tracks17:22
aladdsif you hold them down17:22
aladdsbut the media player is awful17:22
aladdscan't browse by artist17:22
derfI buy heavy laptops with poor battery life to do tech demos at conferences.17:22
RST38hjohnx: But bigger is better! =)17:23
johnxderf, you don't count :P17:23
ccookederf: Heh. I buy huge laptops because I can't use small ones :-)17:23
RST38hderf: Real people use IBM RS6000 with a 2048x2048 indutrial monitor for tech demos17:23
RST38hderf: (the monitor is 80+kg)17:23
qwerty12_N800aladds: flash with w800 firmware. i used to have a k750, i used to patch and mod it and loved it. joystick broke and i mod w810 now17:24
derfRST38h: I don't want to have to ship it out there. I want to carry it on a plane.17:24
RST38hderf: what a terrorist!17:24
aladdsqwerty12_N800: I've looked into it before, my phone has brown firmware17:24
derfHey, I have a TSA-approved laptop bag!17:24
aladdsmy joystick's pretty much broken too...17:24
* RST38h wraps his laptop in clothing17:24
* aladds needs a new phone17:25
RST38hIt is too small for a separate bag - most bags are heavier than the laptop itself17:25
qwerty12_N800aladds: you can flash a red erom or buy a £15 service cable and use cracked setool17:25
aladdsit's not worth it17:25
aladdsthis phone's no fun17:25
aladdsmy J70 was way cooler17:25
ccookederf: the problem with big laptops on planes is you often can't recharge them - this beast uses a 130W charger, for instance...17:25
qwerty12_N800aladds: google elfpack17:25
aladdsI had NiMar's firmware & loads of custom apps17:26
derfccooke: I don't care about actually using it on the plane.17:26
ccookederf: just carrying it? Okay, that makes sense.17:26
derfI usually don't have internet on the plane, so what's the point?17:26
RST38hccooke: recharging the laptop is the last thing I think about when on a plane17:26
derfAnd if I do, I've got an N810.17:26
aladdsqwerty12_N800: looks cool17:26
RST38hbut if I really need to use it on a plane, a new R100 with two batteries runs for about 7-8 hours17:27
ccookeRST38h: Not bad...17:27
RST38hMine runs for 40 minutes though - both batteries are close to dead17:27
qwerty12_N800aladds: yeah, i have it on my w810. but if you have a brown phone, it must be cid36. if you end up getting a new one;flash a red erom using sefp :)17:28
derfSome day they will make batteries that last longer than a year.17:28
aladdsqwerty12_N800: CID49 :(17:28
aladdsit's Ex-Vodafone17:28
RST38hderf: and run on the souls of dead hamsters17:29
aladds(they gave me an unlock code after a year)17:29
derfI'm okay with that. They're not using them anymore.17:29
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RST38hwhom? the hamsters? and what did "they" use them for before?17:29
aladdsStskeeps: i notice it's installing iceweasel, do you really think it'll run? :P17:29
Stskeepsaladds: hey, why not17:29
aladdslol true17:29
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Stskeepsaladds: think it's just a silly dependancy in lxde..17:30
Stskeepsmidori is prolly a better choice17:30
qwerty12_N800aladds: ouch, a brown cid49. dunno if the mod to use sefp works well with erom flashing. heh, i bought a service cable with my 810, got unlock codes for me and my sisters k750 there and then :p17:30
johnxyes, midori is a much better choice, especially with 64MB RAM17:30
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Stskeepsis midori better than microb? :P17:32
johnxthat's a loaded question17:32
johnxit's better at google maps for sure17:32
RST38hSts: no.17:32
johnxit's faster in a lot of cases and slower in a couple17:32
johnxbut it's not as finger friendly17:32
RST38hLess stable17:32
johnxRST38h, debatable17:33
aladdswhat about dillo?17:33
aladdsmight be crap at rendering many sites17:33
johnxdillo is kind of useless a lot of the time17:33
aladdsbut it's really fast17:33
RST38hjohnx: well, it crashes =)17:33
johnxRST38h, well so does microb17:33
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johnxRST38h, so it depends on which one *doesn't* crash on the sites I use17:33
RST38hjohnx: Much less often. BTW, I have traced that browserd hangup bug down17:33
johnxRST38h, gettimeofday() ?17:34
RST38hjohnx: Yep17:34
Stskeepseh. :P17:34
RST38hIt does look like this may come from flash applets (i.e. youtube player)17:34
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RST38hBut, shit, the "programmer" who decided to time his code by calling gettimeofday() in a tight loop has to be fired at the spot17:35
johnxoh, here's why midori wins for me: being able to set the font size without doing seven kinds of arcane ... stuff17:35
* GeneralAntilles doesn't get the obsession with the 770's hard cover.17:36
RST38hNever had a 770 but hard voer sounds useful17:36
johnxGeneralAntilles, different use cases17:37
RST38h810 is so easily scratchable...17:37
sp3000...if you keep sandpaper in your pockets17:37
GeneralAntillesI used my N800 exactly the same as I used my 770.17:37
* aladds keeps sandpaper in his pockets, doesn't everyone? :P17:37
RST38hsp3000: miraculously bread crumbs do the job17:37
johnxeven small rocks and shards of metal are a problem :(17:37
GeneralAntillesi.e., it goes with me practically everywhere.17:37
johnxRST38h, O_o what kind of *bread* do you eat?17:37
GeneralAntillesYou know what's in better shape after a little over a year of use?17:37
GeneralAntillesThe N800.17:37
sp3000RST38h: mmm, breadcrumbs are great for clogging up keyboards17:37
GeneralAntillesWhy? Screen protector.17:38
GeneralAntillesNot the stupid hardcover, a $12 screen protector.17:38
sp3000I seem to have avoided getting bread in my pockets though ;)17:38
RST38hlooks like the metal casing of N810 is covered with something17:38
RST38hthis stuff is really easy to scratch17:38
johnx...if you make your bread from stone dust instead of flour...17:38
GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to beat up the people making me move articles they decided to stupidly name in camelCase.17:39
sp3000using millstone - ur doin it wrong17:39
* Stskeeps loves his screen protector as well17:39
Stskeeps(not the nokia one)17:39
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RST38hhey even a touch with the stylus scratches 810 front panel17:44
aladdsStskeeps: setting up :)17:44
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Stskeepsaladds: woo :P17:45
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aladdssooooo sloooow :P17:45
Stskeepsaladds: have you had it keel over yet like it did with our initial attempt?17:45
Stskeepswith killing apt-get with signal 1117:46
aladdsnot yet17:46
aladdsbut there's still time :p17:46
* aladds wonders why he sees this message: Updating's dictionary list... done.17:46
Stskeepshehe.. stupid package dependancies17:47
aladdsi hope it hasn't installed oo.org17:47
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BlooperOh hi, I'm a bot :)17:51
* aladds has cold feet17:51
aladdsi think i'm going to get some socks17:51
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aladdsit's almost done17:57
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aladdsStskeeps: done, reboot?18:01
aladdsWE HAVE X :D18:04
Stskeepsaladds: did dpkg --purge x-session?18:04
aladdsi did18:04
Stskeepsis it booting? :P18:04
aladdsit is18:04
aladdspicture time methinks18:04
Stskeepsfeel free to show photo :P18:04
Stskeepsdoes touchscreen work?18:05
johnx770 owners, welcome to the ... uhm...present!18:05
* Stskeeps celebrates with a beer18:05
johnxcongrats, aladds and Stskeeps :D18:06
aladdshah, it's even picture number 700 on my camera18:07
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Stskeepsaladds: how is performance?18:09
aladdsbut ideweasel isn't doing much18:09
Stskeeps(tap and hold on taskbar and remove cpu measurement)18:09
aladdsthat's useful actually18:10
Stskeepsyeah, but takes cpu like a bitch :P18:10
johnxactually, watch cpu applet to see if iceweasel is actually launching18:10
aladdsit's telling me that iceweasel is using up all the cpu and doing nothing18:10
Stskeepstry apt-get install midori (johnx?)18:10
johnxit'll come up in a couple minutes18:10
johnxyes, install midori18:10
johnxdo you have some swap turned on?18:10
Stskeepsah, it's only in sid18:11
aladdsi have swap yes18:11
aladdsi think so anyway18:11
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aladdsok i do now18:12
Stskeepsit ran without swap? :P18:12
johnxiceweasel might actually run eventually in that case :)18:12
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Stskeepsaladds: obligatory Deblet on 770 post and Show your screenshots i think ;)18:13
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aladdshaha of course18:13
Stskeepsaladds: if we are getting really fancy.. replicate my "booting deblet" video, apt-get install deblet-omap-fb-splash, dpkg --remove omap-fb-console18:13
Stskeepsand --purge omap-fb-console18:13
treestone /whois Stskeeps18:14
Stskeepstreestone: insane person18:14
aladdsE: Couldn't find package midori18:14
aladds :(18:14
Stskeepsaladds: yeah, it's in sid18:14
treestoneInteresting stuff there18:14
Stskeepsso you need to edit your sources.list18:14
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Stskeepstreestone: no tablet left behind, now with 770 :>18:15
treestoneThis deblet story, you're running a Debian alternative installation?18:15
johnxcustom installer that gets you vanilla debian plus a couple tablet specific packages to add functionality18:16
johnxStskeeps, I'm beating matchbox-keyboard into place, as we speak :)18:16
treestoneNice. I used to hang out mostly in #debian earlier. Debian person.18:16
Stskeepstreestone: still a lot to go regarding power consumption and stripdown, but it works18:16
aladdsStskeeps: so apt-get install deblet-omap-fb-splash first?18:17
Stskeepsaladds: yes18:17
* treestone is reading up18:17
Stskeepsit probably removes omap-fb-console by itself, but needs purge18:17
aladdsthen do remove && purge?18:17
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Stskeepsheh, xchat? ;P18:22
aladdswhich i'm still trying to figure out :P18:22
Stskeepsirssi is prolly more useful18:22
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aladdssplashscreen thing18:23
aladdsis there any way to make the keyboard smaller?18:24
Stskeepswe're working on it :P18:24
Stskeepsor johnx may know better layouts18:24
aladdscool cool18:24
johnxI know a *bigger* layout that I prefer :)18:24
aladdsbut it takes up half the screen :P18:24
johnxuhm, yes18:25
aladdsi do like how i can drag it out of the way though18:25
Stskeepsaladds: we've done work to make hildon input method work .. but so far there's problems with beating it into submission with other wms18:25
Stskeepshow's the install coming?18:27
aladdsreboot time18:28
Stskeepsreboot yeah18:28
Stskeeps(tell me if it shows a splash screen :P)18:28
aladdsit does18:28
Stskeepsvideo time ;) if it finishes booting up :>18:29
aladdsi just filmed that18:30
Stskeepshehe, okay18:30
aladdsfirst boot with splash :)18:30
Stskeepsit's going to take some time to make the packages do this automatically, probably need to make some more support packages for 77018:31
Stskeepsand the whole installer thing18:31
johnxI'll give h-i-m a swing right now since I'm having *no luck* making matchbox-keyboard report it's real location18:32
aladdswhat happened to xkbd?18:33
aladdsi know it's been abandoned18:33
aladdsbut it was pretty good when i used it18:33
aladdsalso, has anyone tried xstroke on deblet?18:34
johnxyou can be the first :)18:34
johnxwelcome to the frontier :)18:34
aladdscan we use ipk packages from
aladdsbecause they're already compiled for arm18:36
* aladds is thinking perhaps alien could convert then to debs?18:37
johnxprobably not18:37 depends on how optimized their are I guess18:37
aladdsisn't familiar debian based anyway?18:37
johnxso is maemo18:38
johnxboth started from debian a long time ago18:38
aladdsso ipk probably isn't much different from deb18:38
johnxI mean a monkey is basically a human, so it makes sense to have a gorilla for a CEO18:38
aladdsthat's been done18:38
aladdshow else would any company ship vista?18:38
johnxbut the way things are linked, what CPU they're optimized for, what the packages are named, can all be problems18:39
johnxbecause they know they can ship anything and people will still buy it?18:39
aladdshmm perhaps18:39
aladdspeople are trying not to though18:40
johnxso try it18:40
johnxand tell us how it works :P18:40
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aladdslol ok18:40
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aladdsor i could just compile it18:40
aladdsthe sources aren't very big18:40
johnxthat would be best I think :)18:40
johnxyou could also just grab the binary from the ipk and run it without installing it18:41
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BugBluemmm isn't therer a flasher for mac os X intel?18:43
aladdsBugBlue: nope18:43
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aladdsBugBlue: there is a GUI flasher though18:43
aladdscalled 770Flasher.app18:44
aladdsuses a ppc binary though18:44
BugBlueah yeah oke18:44
BugBluecan I use it to flash the N810?18:44
aladdsit uses the flasher-2.018:45
aladdsdillo is crazy fast18:45
infobotrumour has it, flashing is
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aladdseven though its rendering is AWFUL :P18:45
aladdsand it wont stay logged into ITT :(18:47
aladdsin the video it shuts down, then boots up18:49
aladdsto X11 :D18:49
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johnxw00! h-i-m sets its WM_CLASS18:54
johnx1 point for Nokia18:54
aladdseasiest way to take a screenshot?18:54
johnxxwd -root -out foo.xwd18:54
aladdscat /dev/fb0 > flle gives what i assume is a raw image?18:54
aladdsoh cool18:55
aladdsdidn't like that18:55
aladdsdoes it have to be run within x11?18:55
Stskeepsinstall imagemagick instead18:55
Stskeepsand import -window root18:56
Stskeepsand import -window root filename.png or something18:56
qwerty12aladds: I use fbgrab when taking screenshots using framebuffer (worked for me to take a screenshot of maemo booting)18:56
aladdsoh ok18:56
johnxyeah xwd is for inside x1118:56
ssvbStskeeps: what about sound on 770 in deblet, does it use aic23 codec and alsa?18:57
ssvbI'm just interested in using sound and DSP without proprietary binary blobs, never tried deblet myself19:02
aladdsyeah there isn't any sound atm19:03
mavhcif you want a decent fast browser without javascript try netsurf19:03
johnxStskeeps, did you already try to use openbox's window matching against h-i-m?19:03
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* aladds has used netsurf on RISC OS :D19:04
mavhcsee #netsurf also19:04
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mavhcaladds: me too19:05
Stskeepsjohnx: nop19:05
* aladds has a Risc PC 700 w/StrongARM19:05
Stskeepsssvb: it's not possible to use without properitary binary blobs.. i think, unless someone implements them19:05
Stskeepswe work around it with building .deb packages that are availiable in a local repo19:05
Stskeepslocal as in on tablet19:05
Stskeepswe don't distribute them19:05
Stskeepsjust give the source packages to build them on tablet and use as part of your ownership of your device19:06
Stskeepsit's not the best but i don't want to sacrifice usability over arguing legally over something that's basically a copy on the device just like a clone-to-SD19:06
ssvbStskeeps: I'm experimenting with enabling aic23 alsa driver in the kernel at the moment, I suspect that it might work quite fine, at least I get some sounds from it19:07
Stskeepsssvb: i'm always open for kernel module deb packages19:08
johnxssvb, that would be awesome for many reasons19:08
Stskeepsand contributions19:08
ssvbdoes deblet on N8x0 use nokia alsa dsp plugin, or it uses alsa driver in the kernel?19:08
johnxalsa dsp plugin19:09
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ssvbjohnx: ok, I see, I'm mostly continuing what was discussed here:
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Stskeepsssvb: goal is ofcourse a completely OSS system, but i'd rather go from properitary pieces to OSS stuff, than start with OSS stuff and never reach level of properitary :P19:15
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ssvbit is possible to output sound from ARM side, unfortunately this does not seem to work fine with DSP codecs also trying to output sounds19:15
ssvbso this requires to scrap all the nokia codecs and start developing new ones19:15
Robot101mmm.... debian on a tablet... :)19:16
johnxRobot101, terrifying, isn't it?19:16
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Robot101did the ubuntu hildon debs make it into debian?19:16
johnxthere's a semi-connected project for debian19:17
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johnxbut yes, the base hildon libs are in19:17
Robot101the status area in recent hildons is a real notification area, so network mangler and battery monitor stuff should just work there too19:17
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qwerty12lol @ network mangler. so true...19:17
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johnxyup, I used hildon-desktop in debian a while ago...but without most of the plugins it's pretty bare19:18
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Robot101oh nice, hildon-desktop is there, and dates and tasks versions19:19
Stskeepsaladds: any luck with video?19:19
johnxthe package for modest is waiting to be built19:19
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aladdswhat would i do with an Imakefile?19:27
aladdsrather than a normal makefile19:27
Stskeepsno clue, ipkg specific thing?19:27
johnxxmkmf -a19:27
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aladdsuh, more packages to install19:28
* Fatal falls off chair.19:28
FatalImakefiles, haven't seen those in ages :)19:28
johnxme neither19:29
johnxthat took a real raid on long term memory19:29
Stskeepsaladds: think you should post a post in Nokia 770 forum to attract some people :)19:29
Stskeepsaladds: btw did you do dpkg-reconfigure dash?19:30
aladdsi did yeah19:30
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* aladds notices that the backlight turns off when he closes the lid )19:36
Stskeepsyeah, we use dsme so19:36
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Italodancei need u19:38
Italodancewhere can i find application catalogue in xterm?19:38
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johnxStskeeps, using devilspie now. h-i-m shows up the right size and place now19:38
aladdsapt-cache search <name>19:39
Italodanceinfact where is it>?19:39
Stskeepsjohnx: screenshot!19:39
aladdsapt-get install <name>19:39
aladdsas root19:39
Italodancehi johnx19:42
Italodanceplease can help me??19:42
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johnxItalodance, what are you trying to do?19:43
Italodancewait i will show u a screenshot19:43
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johnxStskeeps, note that I had to resize the window manually :/19:45
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Stskeepsjohnx: a good step in the right direction atleast19:48
aladdsjohnx: that looks really neat19:48
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Stskeepswhat WM is it?19:48
Italodancejohnx how can i delete it?19:48
Stskeepsis that hildon-icons?19:49
Italodanceit can't delete19:49
Stskeeps(i dont have those icons)19:49
johnxStskeeps, yup.19:49
johnxItalodance, hmmm19:49
Italodanceis possible other way without application catalogue?19:50
Stskeepsjohnx: define resize manually though?19:50
johnxItalodance, do you know how to edit text files in xterm?19:50
johnxStskeeps, I needed to resize leafpad so it doesn't overlap (underlap?) the keyboard19:51
Italodancejohnx no?19:51
johnxItalodance, then there is no way for you to fix it. Just ignore it.19:51
Italodancejohnx ok explain please19:51
Stskeepsjohnx: ah, maybe a on top thing would be useful19:51
Stskeepsbut yeah19:52
Stskeepsthere's a WORKAREA setting you can set i think19:52
johnxItalodance, if it's not a problem, don't worry about it19:52
Italodancejohnx i think my maemo repo and extra devel repo don't work fot that!19:53
johnxItalodance, alright then. Do you have root access?19:53
Italodanceroot yes19:53
Italodancetype root in xterm and?19:54
johnxdo you have nano installed?19:54
Italodanceno wait19:55
Italodancewhere can i find it?19:55
johnxone sec19:55
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johnxon the bottom of this page:
Italodanceyes 1 sec19:57
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johnxStskeeps, hmm?, WORKAREA setting?19:59
RST38hwhy isn't all this stuff (nitapps) in extras anyway?19:59
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Stskeepsjohnx: there's a way to tell the WM to minimize the work area of active windows, for example like taskbars do it20:00
Stskeeps maybe useful20:00
johnxright, the WM shouldn't let windows with a certain type set (like dock) be overlapped20:01
Stskeepswe can always patch h-i-m if needed20:01
Italodancejohnx yes ready20:01
johnxItalodance, nano /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list20:02
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Italodancejohnx tnx 100000020:04
johnxItalodance, sure. no problem :)20:04
johnxtell me if it works :D20:04
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Italodancejohnx i found it and want to delete it but the page can't save why?20:09
Italodancei used emelfm220:09
johnxyou need to be root to save over that file20:10
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Italodanceuse root in xterm?20:11
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johnxyeah, like I told you20:11
johnxroot in xterm20:11
thuxdebian seems to boot from sd-card, first try didn't work with initfs but flasher did set root device right20:11
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johnxthen nano /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list20:12
johnxthen edit the file20:12
johnxthen save with ctrl-x20:12
aladdsxstroke is complaning about missing files in /usr/include/X1120:12
aladdsbut i installed xserver-xorg-dev20:12
aladdsthe xstrike Imakefile20:13
johnxaladds, maybe the files are someplace else?20:13
johnxuse dpkg -S filename to see if they've moved20:13
Stskeepsbuild from source
johnxxstroke is pretty old20:13
aladdsi'm using the source from handhelds.org20:14
Stskeepshas .deb package20:14
aladdsit's a bit newer and support full-screen writing20:14
aladdsbut the deb will be i38620:14
Stskeepsnah, it's the source package20:15
aladdsactually i have 0.5.1220:15
aladdsa source deb?20:15
Italodancejohnx i typed this line in root: nano /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list but said error opening terminal: xterm.20:15
Stskeepsarh, requires login to dl attachments20:15
Stskeepssilly ubuntu20:15
aladds:(20:15 for searching for include files20:16
Stskeeps(bottom form)20:16
aladdsi'll make an ubuntu account20:16
aladdswon't take long20:16
johnxItalodance, sorry. I don't know :(20:17
aladdsthe package name is xstroke_0.6.cvs20040921-2_i386.deb20:18
Italodancei installed nano but maybe need ncurses-base_5.4-3.osso1_all.deb ?20:18
johnxItalodance, ah, yes. please install that too.20:18
johnxI thought you installed it20:19
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Italodancejohnx i am there!20:25
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Italodancefind delete and save it yes?20:25
johnxyes, delete the line20:25
johnxthen save the file20:25
johnxit should be at the bottom20:25
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Italodancehow can i save?20:32
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johnxItalodance, hit ctrl on the keyboard, then hit x20:34
Italodanceit want y or no20:38
Italodancewhen i click on ctrl and20:38
Italodancethe page can't close20:39
Italodanceit's normal?20:39
johnxwhat does it say?20:40
Italodanceafter ctrl and x:20:40
johnxafter ctrl and x, hit y20:41
johnxthen enter20:41
Italodancesave modified buffer (answering "No" will destroy changes)20:41
ItalodanceY YES20:41
ItalodanceN NO20:41
johnxhit "y"20:41
Italodance^C Cancel20:41
Italodanceyes i hit it by ctrl but page is still on and without close20:42
johnxhit enter20:42
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Italodancejohnx enter?20:51
* Stslaptop wonders if it's all the uni students going back to the uni town today since the train is absolutely full20:51
Italodancefirst ctrl and x20:51
Italodancesecond ctrl and y20:51
Italodancebut no change20:51
johnxctrl x20:51
Italodanceno changed20:55
Italodanceone more time20:55
Stslaptopctrl-q? :P20:55
Italodancectrl and hit x20:55
Stslaptop(unsuspend term)20:56
Italodancethen ask me: save modified buffer (answering "No" will destroy changes)20:56
ItalodanceY YES20:56
ItalodanceN NO20:56
johnxnot control20:56
Italodanceand enter y20:56
johnxjust hit y20:56
Italodancebut no changed20:56
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Stslaptopjohnx: so there's a fair possibility we can make h-i-m work for a nit-env-lxde (for gtk and maybe qt) apps?20:58
johnxit works, it's just not ideal20:58
Stslaptopit's basically you want to make the otherwise windows respect the newly sized work area?20:58
johnxits window type gets set to dock *after* the window is mapped, so I think openbox is ignoring it20:59
Stslaptopthat's probably hackable20:59
Stslaptopthe code that does it is pretty simple20:59
johnxI don't tihnk it has provisions for windows chaning types, which is the case when I use devilspie on it20:59
johnxyeah, if it became a dock from the beginning I would imagine it would work21:00
johnxprobably the same with matchbox-keyboard21:01
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Stslaptopi'll take a look at it later, this sideways driving in train is making me feel wobbly :/21:02
johnxalright, I'm going to sleep21:02
johnxItalodance, good luck21:02
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Italodanceno :(21:07
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Italodancemy n800 hasn't a keyboard21:08
Italodanceif i press enter then can see large keyboard21:08
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aladdshow do you make a deb?22:40
aladdsi've got ./debian-binary ./data.tar.gz and ./control.tar.gz22:41
aladdsapparently i need to use ar22:41
aladdsbut i don't know the syntax22:41
inzYou normally make a deb with dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot ;)22:41
aladdsi have an ipkg22:41
aladdswhich apparently can be converted from debs22:42
aladdsand i can find loads of places detailing that22:42
aladdsbut the other way? not so many22:42
inzI would guess the ar syntax is something like ar q foo.deb file1 file2 file322:43
aladdsi was trying to use m22:43
inzaladds, m is move22:44
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aladdswell i thought "move into archive...22:44
inzaladds, it's move _in_ an archive22:44
aladdsit's now complaining that arm isn't the same as armel22:44
inzAnd it's right22:45
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aladdsso now i need to compile it for armel22:49
aladdsdoes anyone have cross-compile set up?22:49
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aladdsah no wait a min22:51
aladdsfamiliar (from where i got this package) is little endian22:51
aladdsso surely, arm packages which are little endian should work on deblet?22:51
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Robot101aladds: arm and armel have different calling conventions, thats why they're different23:01
Robot101it's the arm new ABI, and also a new syscall convention too I think23:01
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aladdsback to trying to compile it then23:03
aladdswill xserver-xorg-dev install all the xlib headers?23:03
Robot101unless the familiar binary is for "armel" rather than "arm"23:03
Robot101(assuming they follow the debian naming, which I think they did)23:04
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crashanddie~nick TaskBot23:04
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crashanddie~join #grouptask23:04
TaskBotcrashanddie: Okay23:04
crashanddie~part #maemo23:04
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aladdshas xlibs-dev been replaced?23:10
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aladdsand if so, what by?23:10
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blafaselcrashanddie: It left. ;)23:11
crashanddieblafasel, no it didn't, I wanted to query infobot23:12
crashanddie~lart blafasel23:12
* infobot raises middle finger to blafasel23:12
crashanddie~lart infobot23:12
* infobot grabs a large, mis-shapened log, with squirrels, and beats crashanddie until only the nuts remain ... which the squirrels run off with23:12
crashanddieblafasel, I'm just demoing the bots to a friend23:13
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blafaselI'm not offended easily ;)23:13
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GAN800~murder crashanddie23:22
* infobot shoots crashanddie in his sleep23:22
GAN800~eat crashanddie23:23
infobotThat's too disgusting.23:23
GAN800~eat crashanddie23:23
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Stskeepsaladds: i'll have a dedicated deblet qemu-armel at some point23:28
Stskeeps is a good qemu image23:28
aladdsi'm currently installing xorg-dev23:28
Stskeepsmay need to be apt-get dist-upgraded though23:28
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lardmanevening all23:29
GeneralAntilles'lo, lardman.23:32
lardmanhey GeneralAntilles, how's things?23:32
lardmandid you see the presentation :)23:32
* lardman ducks23:32
GAN800Did anybody record it?23:32
lardmanah well, I have your wrath to look forward to then :)23:32
GAN800sjgasdy meantioned something about my expense on jaiku. . . .23:33
lardmanwell, you know, pick on the easy (not present) target, to deflect attention and all that ;)23:33
* timeless returns home23:34
aladdsStskeeps: xstroke is looking for freetype headers, any idea which package might give me those? neither freetype or freetype-dev seem available23:35
GAN800No presentation, just a 30 minute roast of Ryan? ;)23:35
Stskeepsaladds: libfreetype-dev?:P23:35
aladdsnope :(23:35
Stskeeps libfreetype6-dev23:35
lardmanGAN800: not far off, all sorts of troubles with the presentation equipment, about 1/2 the presentations were ad-libed for the first few minutes while those were sorted23:35
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aladdsapparently it'a installed23:36
aquatixalways troubles with presentation equipment23:36
* aquatix can only be amused about the amount of troubles even geeks have with beamers and such :)23:36
lardmanyeah, for next time we should try to organise some laptops to be kept in the rooms and always working, etc.23:36
aquatixreminds me to check whether vga works correctly on my laptop ;)23:36
lardmanaquatix: true, 200-odd technical people and still troubles! :)23:37
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aladdsanyone know which package might give me the 'bold' command23:39
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lardmandpkg -S "bold"23:42
* lardman had to Google to remember23:42
aladdsyeah got it23:43
aladdsthanks though23:43
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lardmanwhere should I look to work out how the xserver interacts with the screen, whatever that might be?23:45
lardmanand specifically to look at how updates which are not full screen are handled23:45
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GAN800vga adaptor time, eh?23:47
lardmanyeah, thought I'd take a look at least23:47
lardmanFrom talking to some Nokians, they thought the USB otg host was slow anyway23:48
lardmanHow's your one working?23:48
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GAN800it works23:48
GAN800but slowly23:48
GAN800Interesting that the usb host is slow23:49
lardmanhas anyone benchmarked the usb bandwidth at all?23:49
GAN800Not that I've seen.23:49
GAN800Might bug -developers about it.23:49
lardmanyeah, thought I'd try some tests first though just to see23:49
lardmanhave seen a usb2vga adaptor for £35, which is not bad and I'd get that even before working out if the usb thing is a show stopper23:50
lardmanjust need to find out the chipset so that it will at least work23:50
GAN800Anything sis based23:51
lardmanno, this is allegedly and oem product for
lardmanbut I presume it must use one of the two chipsets23:51
lardmanbut as they say with presumption being the mother of all, somethingorothers23:52
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GAN800I'd just get the startech and not have the worry of it being wrong.23:52
lardmanexpensive though ~£6023:53
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lardmanand I hope the next device has built-in tv output23:53
GAN800Wow, was only $6023:53
lardmanyeah well we pay the same in £ as you do in $23:54
GAN800It really ought to23:54
GAN800OMAP3 can handle it.23:54
GAN800640x480 framebuffer just for TV23:54
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