IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2008-09-21

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crashanddie	~lart me	00:58
* infobot pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps crashanddie		00:58
Proteous	heh	00:58
Proteous	~larp me	00:59
Proteous	heh	00:59
Blafasel	Hey. How's the party going?	00:59
Proteous	raging	00:59
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lcuk	hi guys	02:22
Fatal	lo!	02:22
lcuk	its not that funny	02:22
lcuk	loäl i am drunk :L	02:23
lcuk	whos around	02:23
* nomis waves		02:25
lcuk	hi nomis	02:25
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lcuk	how is the party	02:25
nomis	ah, no longer at the party actually.	02:25
lcuk	yer i needed more than pizza	02:26
lcuk	its been a great summit	02:28
nomis	indeed.	02:28
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lcuk	i wanna wake up in the morning and go to more sessions	02:29
nomis	:)	02:29
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lcuk	meeting up with everyone has been amazing	02:29
lcuk	"connecting people" :)	02:30
nomis	heh :)	02:30
lcuk	i was shitscared before yesterday, now i am simply scared - thankfully i didnt screw up 3 presentations	02:31
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crashanddie	lcuk, so it's all finished?	02:36
lcuk	yer	02:36
nomis	yeah	02:36
lcuk	:(	02:36
crashanddie	damnit	02:36
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crashanddie	it's pretty short when you think of it	02:36
lcuk	but i can test out some networking code this week	02:37
lcuk	all that prep	02:37
crashanddie	you heading back home tomorrow?	02:37
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lcuk	in the evening i am siteseeing (and taking notes) tommorow	02:38
crashanddie	nice	02:38
crashanddie	lucky bastard	02:38
lcuk	i was on the train earlier and i had no nokia and i felt naked	02:38
lcuk	i had no pen or tablet	02:38
crashanddie	Your n810 died completely?	02:39
lcuk	they were charging up	02:39
crashanddie	they?	02:39
lcuk	it felt wrong for menot to have it	02:39
lcuk	yes, they	02:39
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crashanddie	they as in... my n810s ?	02:39
lcuk	i am on a finnish tablet now :)	02:39
crashanddie	well, your	02:39
crashanddie	you lucky sob	02:40
lcuk	kb is a bit wrong but its great	02:40
lcuk	heh	02:40
crashanddie	wimax edition?	02:40
lcuk	no	02:40
crashanddie	hmm	02:40
crashanddie	ok	02:40
lcuk	i dont have wimax around me	02:40
crashanddie	I forgive you then	02:40
lcuk	and the nokian who it was commondeered from happened to have a standard one	02:41
lcuk	it was fuuny, its been an amazing few days and over too quickly	02:41
crashanddie	wait	02:41
lcuk	so now i am sat in hotel bar	02:42
crashanddie	they went "hey, Lars, gary needs a new n810, give him yours" "but, you mean... what?" "give him your n810"	02:42
crashanddie	?	02:42
lcuk	yer	02:42
lcuk	:)	02:42
crashanddie	hahahahahaha	02:42
crashanddie	epic	02:42
crashanddie	poor guy	02:42
lcuk	classic	02:42
lcuk	heh its ok he can get a new one tommorow	02:43
lcuk	have a cig with me	02:43
crashanddie	Yeah, but still	02:43
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crashanddie	sure, lemme light up	02:43
Fatal	"your choice, tomorrow, go fetch a new n810 or a job"	02:43
lcuk	ok i am in the street	02:43
lcuk	heh lol	02:44
lcuk	the screen on my original one is really bad comparred to this	02:44
crashanddie	lcuk, dunno if you read your emails	02:44
crashanddie	lcuk, did you see the news about the open source wifi driver?	02:44
lcuk	i put my memory card in and it works	02:45
lcuk	ummmm i know nits open now and thats great news	02:45
lcuk	-n	02:45
crashanddie	yeah, there's still a lot of work to do	02:45
crashanddie	but it appears to be quite terrific	02:45
lcuk	yer loads	02:45
aspect	how does the 770 compare to the n800? if I'm looking to get a cheap one as a secondary tablet what do I need to be aware of in deciding how much to be willing to pay?	02:45
crashanddie	They day injection works	02:46
lcuk	uööö pm me	02:46
crashanddie	They day injection works, is the day I release a deb for jasager, and karmetasploit	02:46
lcuk	hhe	02:47
lcuk	hang on need more cigs	02:47
lcuk	damn gotta go over the road i cant do that now ill wait	02:49
lcuk	pm me	02:49
crashanddie	I did	02:50
crashanddie	ah, no, I forgot to send something... :D I opened the window, but forgot to write xD	02:50
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lcuk	rm	03:06
lcuk	hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii	03:06
lcuk	rm_you	03:07
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rm_you	lcuk:	03:21
rm_you	just got back, had to pack	03:22
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lcuk	rm_you did khertan return and did jott shke his hand for me	03:28
lcuk	i was really upset i could not find him	03:28
* lcuk reads emails		03:29
timeless	hi lcuk :(	03:29
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* ccooke wonders: Was there any suggestion they're going to remove the keyboard from the next model? Or are they not even releasing that sort of detail yet?		03:30
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rm_you	timeless: :)	03:31
rm_you	lcuk: no idea	03:31
lcuk	hi timeless i think i just replied to yours	03:32
timeless	i think there was a suggestion that we don't release such info as it'd only help our competitors	03:32
* lcuk ups his word count		03:32
lcuk	why remove kb?	03:33
* timeless thinks we should remove the battery, it's heavy :)		03:34
lcuk	crashanddie - jott ddi stats on his logs and i have a wordcount of 250000 since january	03:34
ccooke	timeless: Was that in reply to me? (sorry, it's been a long day here!)	03:34
timeless	yes	03:34
ccooke	ah, right. Thanks, then :-)	03:34
lcuk	i am the blabbermouth	03:34
crashanddie	lcuk, you should be endorsed by IBM	03:34
rm_you	http://outpo.st/irc/	03:34
timeless	lcuk: i don't understand. I installed libXv	03:35
lcuk	after we left the party i was speaking to marius about getting irc stats support proper with his bot	03:35
lcuk	timeless, im not sure, but if its saying no adapters i tend to believe it, i cant look now, but it could simply be not having the specific format required	03:37
crashanddie	lcuk, there's this awesome song, one of the few french songs I really like	03:37
lcuk	i will find out for you	03:37
timeless	aliasing is a feature to consider. The irc.mozilla.org stats include it. Although perhaps losing the distinction between timelyx and timeless would be a bad thing...	03:37
crashanddie	lcuk, artist: "La rue kétanou", title: "tu parles trop"	03:37
crashanddie	translation: "you talk too much" :D	03:37
lcuk	i cant check now, send me mp3	03:37
lcuk	hehe	03:37
crashanddie	I don't do mp3	03:37
crashanddie	I'll send you a deezer link	03:38
timeless	wav!	03:38
lcuk	1/4 of a million words!	03:38
crashanddie	The only .wav stuff I have I'm not allowed to give away	03:38
crashanddie	(about 20gig)	03:38
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lcuk	im not a joe on the street though :P	03:39
lcuk	stream it	03:39
lcuk	ill borrow it lol	03:39
crashanddie	Sorry	03:39
gregorovius	are there videos of the summit available?	03:39
* timeless vaguely wonders what an adapter is		03:39
lcuk	timeless, did my liqbase demo work then - did i do the right thingsÅ	03:40
crashanddie	I'm not bitchy about a lot of things, but music piracy is one of the very few topics that really tickles the wrong spot :P	03:40
timeless	fwiw, i had to install libXv myself w/ apt-get..	03:40
crashanddie	s/I'm not/I know I'm extremely/	03:40
infobot	crashanddie meant: I know I'm extremely bitchy about a lot of things, but music piracy is one of the very few topics that really tickles the wrong spot :P	03:40
lcuk	lol when i get back inffront of my real system i will check for you	03:40
lcuk	crash, but an advert is a good thing	03:41
* lcuk carries on reading emails		03:42
n800m	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TpVD7sZUbY	03:42
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elekt	funny song	03:42
crashanddie	lcuk, oh, and btw, while we're on the good news topic	03:46
crashanddie	lcuk, I was told I was the preferred candidate (even after the internal candidates), they're doing a background check on me and my CV, and I have an 80-90% chance of getting the job	03:47
lcuk	nice	03:47
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lcuk	thats the spirit	03:47
lcuk	bullshit my nokia craps out with flaxh	03:48
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crashanddie	ouch	03:49
lcuk	its working ok now, im surprised by how well my demo looks	03:49
lcuk	but how dated it is as well	03:50
lcuk	and the focus is not right	03:50
lcuk	the 6 browesr windows ive got open are not doing much but theyoutube tab is killing i	03:51
ccooke	Hmm. Is there any place where a list of necessary work exists in maemo (or the community at large)? I'm looking for a useful timesink for the next few evenings.	03:51
ccooke	lcuk: I have a vague feeling from my own use that six windows hits some resource limitations	03:51
lcuk	nahh its fine - at least it was until i started viewing live youtube	03:52
elekt	6 windows?	03:53
lcuk	but its fine again and i have now 8 tabs	03:53
elekt	whoa, tabs?	03:53
ccooke	lcuk: swap space enabled?	03:53
lcuk	yer	03:53
lcuk	must be	03:53
ccooke	lcuk: so, you probably just swapped a load of stuff out.	03:53
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ccooke	swapping is slow on the flash :-)	03:53
lcuk	it wasnt my tasblet until recently,...	03:53
ccooke	lcuk: oh?	03:54
lcuk	:)	03:54
lcuk	heh, it could be a custom one, im fecked if i know	03:54
ccooke	lcuk: how come?	03:55
lcuk	how do i find out the specs/revision	03:55
ccooke	There's an about dialog...	03:55
lcuk	cos i have worn out my current touchscreen	03:55
lcuk	wherw	03:55
lcuk	-w e	03:55
ccooke	In the control panel, top left. About Product.	03:56
lcuk	k	03:56
ccooke	of course, that's only model name and firmware release	03:56
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lcuk	heh	03:56
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lcuk	i think its a standard model	03:57
ccooke	What made you think it might not be?	03:57
lcuk	cos it was commondeered from a nokia guy this afternoon :)	03:58
ccooke	laugh	03:59
ccooke	nice!	03:59
lcuk	crash did you see the latest version of liqbase i sent you	03:59
lcuk	ccooke, yes i worked hard for ti :)	03:59
ccooke	lcuk: I take it you were presenting something? (sorry, I'm pretty tangential in this community!)	03:59
rm_you	gah sleep... waking in 2.5 hours ....	03:59
lcuk	rm_you, have a safe trip home, i really enjoyed meeting you and i will see you again soon i hope	04:00
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rm_you	:P	04:01
rm_you	yeah, same :) ttyl	04:01
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lcuk	ccooke, we have just finished the 1st maemo summit and we have met about 200 of the best minds in the world	04:02
ccooke	lcuk: Yeah, heard about it on Thursday. I was very tempted to jump on a plane Friday morning :-)	04:03
lcuk	i am rather drunk in a berlin hotel room feeling quite good	04:03
* ccooke grins		04:03
lcuk	you shouldv	04:03
lcuk	there was so much happening	04:04
ccooke	it sounds like a lot of fun	04:04
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ccooke	Maybe next time I'll have actually contributed something, so I'll feel justified in going ;-)	04:05
lcuk	it was based in a place called c-base which is an alienspaceship from the future or something, thehosts gave us such a warm welcome adn made the experience really pleasant	04:05
ccooke	Nice...	04:05
ccooke	200 people, you say?	04:05
ccooke	not bad for a first year!	04:06
lcuk	yer it was an amazing time	04:06
lcuk	maemo has been alive since 2005 or 6 i think	04:06
lcuk	the 770 (8%(3@ 85 9##	04:06
ccooke	yeah. I remember it coming out. The n810 is the first device that fit for me, though. I can't work without a keyboard	04:07
ccooke	The n810 is, however, the most successful PDA-style device I've owned, going back a decade.	04:08
ccooke	(successful in a personal sense: I spend more time using it and use its capabilities to a greater extent than any previous device)	04:08
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Jaredu	hey guys wassap	04:37
evaryont	Jaredu: don't think you know of an app for n8x0 for flickr?	04:38
Jaredu	hmm	04:38
Jaredu	good question	04:38
Jaredu	have you tried maemo.org?	04:38
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Jaredu	ehh?	04:41
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evaryont	ah. sorry	04:48
evaryont	Jaredu: I have, but nothing turned up (it seemed)	04:48
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crashanddie	~help	05:06
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Jaredu	hmm?	06:05
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b1ackdeath	dose any one know a good tutorial for porting applications beside the Maemo Diablo Reference Manua	07:16
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elekt	anything new on the dsp side?	07:40
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summatusmentis	I have not been paying attention, have there been more announcements wrt n900 and maemo 5?	09:14
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* Stskeeps has not really heard anything interesting since friday		09:19
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summatusmentis	and friday was minor spec announcments, and maemo 5 announcement?	09:20
lcuk	i dont think anything conrete redally got announced, was mainly about user apps and dev and community from the stuff i saw	09:22
lcuk	really *	09:22
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* lcuk mightv just missed it by smokin tho		09:23
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lcuk	hmm how do i gainroot, whats the package name	09:26
summatusmentis	lcuk: I thought they announced base specs for the next tablet revision	09:27
lcuk	yer that was before friday tho wasnt it	09:27
lcuk	at osim	09:28
* lcuk is nursing a sore head		09:28
lcuk	and increasing his word count	09:28
Stskeeps	lcuk: rootsh?	09:28
lcuk	ill look	09:29
summatusmentis	so I downloaded the Android SDK, I'm kind of excited	09:29
lcuk	sts excellent thanks, im sat eating breakfast and internet searchin on this device is not simple	09:31
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* lcuk needs irc in liqbase		09:48
summatusmentis	is there new functionality in liqbase?	09:49
lcuk	i dunno what you considr new	09:50
lcuk	there should be a package in a week or so	09:50
summatusmentis	ooh	09:50
lcuk	the sketching has tools	09:50
summatusmentis	newest thing I've got a is a playtest	09:50
lcuk	theres a camera module play thing	09:50
lcuk	a berlin metro map :D	09:51
summatusmentis	berlin metro map doesn't help me in rural MN :)	09:51
lcuk	graffiti now allows reediting	09:51
summatusmentis	oh, that's cool	09:51
lcuk	move to berlin	09:51
summatusmentis	you've been busy	09:51
summatusmentis	that'd be hard to do	09:51
lcuk	whats hard?	09:52
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summatusmentis	moving to berlin	09:52
lcuk	now really, build a maemo spaceship	09:52
summatusmentis	I'll get on that :)	09:52
lcuk	if you need plans cntact c-base	09:52
lcuk	should i have a controvercial 4th cup of coffee for breakfast?	09:53
summatusmentis	yes	09:53
lcuk	excellent	09:53
summatusmentis	L)	09:53
summatusmentis	:) **	09:53
lcuk	damn the woman infrnt has broken the machine	09:54
summatusmentis	oh lame	09:55
lcuk	very	09:55
lcuk	the hotel woman will sortit, the user interface makes it easy for user to crash it	09:55
jaska	microsoft coffee	09:56
lcuk	she pressed everybtton multiple times	09:56
lcuk	lol	09:56
summatusmentis	haha	09:56
lcuk	she got half a cup of hot water out of the opposite spout	09:57
jaska	press button, receive fail	09:57
lcuk	i prefer bacon	09:57
jaska	me too	09:57
lcuk	liqbase includes bacon	09:58
jaska	slightly offtopic but someone should make a real bacon vending machine	09:58
lcuk	the bast bacon thing i know is the bacon alarmclock	09:58
lcuk	you wake p to cooked rasher and smell	09:59
lcuk	(serious product)	09:59
* lcuk tries for more coffee		09:59
RST38h	lcuk	10:05
lcuk	does anyone have a link to jotts stats, yer rst	10:05
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RST38h	moo qwerty	10:06
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qwerty12	hey RST38h	10:06
lcuk	ive not tried doin irc on the move before	10:06
lcuk	hi qwerty	10:06
qwerty12	Didn't realise I was connected lol, ndiswrapper pissing me around	10:06
RST38h	lcuk: Just think of how many little pink piglets you have devoured by now!	10:07
qwerty12	hi lcuk	10:07
lcuk	heh	10:07
RST38h	lcuk: May their horrified oinking haunt your dreams! =)	10:07
lcuk	just think of how many cows you have left voiceless by stealing their mooo	10:07
RST38h	moo.	10:07
* lcuk adds an icon to liqbase on new 810		10:08
lcuk	i was sat on the metro last night wapping memory cardd	10:09
summatusmentis	new n810?	10:09
lcuk	ppl gave me funny looks	10:09
lcuk	yer	10:09
lcuk	ive worn the screen out on old one	10:10
RST38h	wow	10:10
RST38h	that's what development on the tablet does to it =)	10:10
lcuk	yer its responsiveness was going in the area i stoke too much	10:10
lcuk	i couldnt use finger	10:10
lcuk	this one is much better	10:11
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lcuk	it still worked with stylus, but was deffo not as sensitive	10:11
lcuk	ive just realised how my workcount is so high	10:12
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lcuk	can someone check scrollback and find jotts irc stats page please	10:14
acydlord	i dont have that far back sadly	10:16
jaska	hmm?	10:17
acydlord	which reminds me my logs arent on	10:17
qwerty12	lcuk: http://outpo.st/irc/	10:17
lcuk	nice thx qwerty	10:17
qwerty12	np	10:18
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qwerty12	(anything to get my	10:18
qwerty12	line count up) :P	10:18
Proteous	lol	10:18
lcuk	i was speaking to marius lastnight and pushed him to add live versions of these for povbot	10:18
Proteous	or should I say	10:18
Proteous	l	10:18
Proteous	o	10:18
Proteous	l	10:18
qwerty12	hehe	10:18
qwerty12	lcuk: that would be cool	10:19
lcuk	the scariest part is my wordcount	10:19
Proteous	you are a wordy fuck	10:19
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lcuk	yes it would be, it should be included in karma	10:19
Proteous	never use one word where 3 words would be just as good	10:19
lcuk	yer but i didnt know it was that much	10:19
lcuk	and i still managed to code up liqbase	10:20
qwerty12	"Is gribouille stupid or just asking too many questions? 53.3% lines contained a question! " lol	10:20
Proteous	or should I say never use only one word in a short phrase when you could extend the phrase out to multiple words, maybe even three or more	10:20
qwerty12	WHAT!	10:20
qwerty12	"jason__ has quite a potty mouth. 1.7% words were foul language. "	10:20
qwerty12	That title should have gone to me	10:20
Proteous	heh	10:20
lcuk	lol	10:20
lcuk	battery low, brb gonna switch	10:21
lcuk	crap its upstairs	10:21
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lcuk	i left ireless on lastnight	10:21
lcuk	w	10:21
qwerty12	I swear I get headaches when I leave the wireless on and go to sleep >.<	10:21
ccooke	lcuk: that shouldn't drain the power much...	10:22
lcuk	it waws not fully charged any way	10:22
lcuk	and thats normal from my home experience	10:23
Proteous	I get a headache when I drink too much, but I don't let that stop me	10:23
qwerty12	Hehe, but I have no reason to leave it on though as well	10:24
lcuk	well i drunk lastnight and collapsed on bed :) ive had a great few days	10:24
qwerty12	For educational purposes, how is Germany on their drug laws?	10:25
lcuk	if i have charger in i should be able to switch battery without powering down	10:25
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lcuk	i dunno	10:25
qwerty12	I'll go there someday and find out :P	10:25
lcuk	when your mum lets you	10:26
Proteous	don't bring his mum into this	10:26
* ccooke finally gets around to googling liqbase. Looks wonderful...		10:26
qwerty12	For now I have to resist the urge of strangling fprobe and libpcap	10:26
RST38h	please do	10:27
RST38h	and make a video!	10:27
lcuk	ccooke you are not the only one to think that	10:28
qwerty12	hehe	10:28
ccooke	lcuk: grin	10:28
qwerty12	lcuk: I'm still waiting for the version that does the washing up	10:28
lcuk	i best get packed up im leaving berlin today and im sad to go	10:28
lcuk	heh this one has bacon	10:28
ccooke	lcuk: by the way, are you from Bradford?	10:29
lcuk	no	10:29
lcuk	shit ive got so much to pack	10:29
ccooke	heh. Your accennt is pretty close :-)	10:29
lcuk	i need a maid	10:29
* qwerty12 is proud to say my Yorkshire accent has dropped dramatically due to living in London		10:29
lcuk	proximity to southerners does that	10:30
RST38h	btw gentlemen, I found what browserd is doing while hanging	10:30
lcuk	hanging tough?	10:30
RST38h	gettimeofday(). lots of it.	10:31
lcuk	im gonna go, bbl	10:31
ccooke	qwerty12: heh. Mine was never very strong, and moving about the South the last ten years has pretty much got buried it	10:31
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ccooke	RST38h: gah.	10:32
ccooke	RST38h: gettimeofday() is the current bane of my existance	10:33
qwerty12	ccooke: heh, for me, people can tell that I'm not from London but I don't speak with a London accent either so I'm pretty confused :P	10:33
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* qwerty12 waits for https://garage.maemo.org/projects/dsm to open		10:34
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ccooke	qwerty12: I just confuse people. My mum was Welsh, my Dad from Derbyshire, Both of them lost their accents mostly and I grew up near Bradford. Strange mix, but I'm told it's still a bit Northern :-)	10:35
qwerty12	lol :)	10:36
ccooke	by the way, would anyone (else) here be interested in an entirely offline RSS reader?	10:38
Proteous	only if it can download my feeds without needing a connection	10:39
Proteous	magicly	10:39
ccooke	Proteous: heh.	10:39
ccooke	Proteous: mine is server based. The server updates the tablet via rsync.	10:39
StsN800	i would, atleast one that doesn't require me to click DEFAULT connection all the time	10:39
liri	ccooke: definitely would but it would have to be able to handle non-standard rss feeds as well as hebrew :)	10:40
StsN800	ccooke, i had problems with that due to power saving in wifi conn	10:40
ccooke	liri: my wife is from Israel, and she also has an n810 and RSS habit :-)	10:40
liri	ccooke: I can say that I tried both the default rss reader and liferea and none of them can handle hebrew or the rss feeds I give it (because they are probably not 100% compliant with the standards)	10:41
liri	ccooke: lol, small world eh? :)	10:41
ccooke	grin	10:41
liri	ccooke: well then, all the more reasons to have a proper rss reade	10:41
liri	*reader	10:41
StsN800	so even if tablet is associated it is not always connectable from outside	10:41
ccooke	what I'm actually doing is fetching the rss on a server, parsing the links, then downloading everhthing necessary to view the page	10:42
ccooke	every link is rewritten to go via a CGI script, which checks for a cached copy of the page. if it doesn't find a cache, it redirects to the real website	10:43
liri	ccooke: so you'd require a server for that?	10:43
ccooke	so, you rsync the cache onto the tablet, which runs a tiny httpd	10:43
ccooke	yep	10:43
ccooke	the cache generator builds index pages for each day	10:44
ccooke	thttpd takes upjust under 2 meg of RAM, which is usually swapped out.	10:45
qwerty12	I like that idea very much, I get annoyed when I see the headline and a bit of text underneath but no internet connection for me to access the site.	10:46
ccooke	the CGI is in shell script, for maximum speed without having anything resident	10:46
liri	uhmm, I don't know, sound a bit of an overkill	10:46
ccooke	qwerty12: that's what always irritates me about rss	10:46
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qwerty12	Yeah :)	10:46
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ccooke	liri: the basic thing is, you view the rss links exactly as they're supposed to be viewed - on the original site	10:47
qwerty12	I'm already running an httpd for gstmpjg so I'm not bothered on that front	10:47
ccooke	lirc: as long as you have swap, you'll never see any performance hit with using the server - and even without it'd be tiny	10:48
RST38h	ccooke: do you also call it in a tight loop? =)	10:48
ccooke	you call it from the standard web browser... I mean, it is the best tool for html on the device...	10:49
liri	umm	10:50
liri	so you would need to process these links using a program on a desktop linux or something, and then transfer the web pages to the tablet?	10:51
ccooke	yes.	10:51
ccooke	what I need to do is write a pull-style transfer instead of push.	10:52
ccooke	say, have the server make tarballs of the day-to-day changes	10:52
liri	how about this - let's make it a web service rather than a tool?	10:52
ccooke	liri: explain...?	10:53
StsN800	aren't we a bit over in offline google reader then?	10:53
ccooke	StsN800: I've yet to see that working on a nokia	10:54
ccooke	spent two days trawling every offline reader I could find	10:54
liri	ccooke: I mean let's not make this software oriented but rather web (2.0?) oriented. let's put up a domain (tabletrss.com) where users can register and create their own offline contents from websites/rss's and it would create for them a daily/weekly tar file which is then configured on the tablet to auto-sync with	10:55
ccooke	and none of them actually do what this does anyway, as far as I can tell	10:55
StsN800	i've seen tools for building rss feed+referred pages atleast	10:55
ccooke	liri: apoh, that. Yes, that was where I'm aiming asking in here.	10:55
StsN800	the problem is downloading on a schedule from tablets	10:55
ccooke	liri: that's also why I need to get rid of rsync as the update mechanism.	10:56
ccooke	StsN800: cron plus a shell script will do it :-)	10:56
liri	ccooke: I mean, I think a service for these kind of things is more "friendly" than having a person run some scripts on a linux server then worry about rsyncing it.. ahh, that doesn't sound like something I'm going to do daily/weekly just to read news on the tablet	10:56
liri	ccooke: the rsync is not the problem, the work here would be to create such website	10:57
ccooke	not really	10:57
liri	StsN800: I don't think scheduling is an issue, this can be an on-demand retrieval thing	10:57
ccooke	I'm not a frontend coder, but I've built a good few servers and sites... and I have reliable web servers	10:58
liri	ccooke: well I'm no guru at all these web technologies so... to make something professional I'm guessing would take some effort	10:58
liri	ccooke: well then, I'm all up for it, shall we get going then? :)	10:58
ccooke	liri: grin	10:58
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liri	ccooke: this idea actually relates very much to my wish to have an update-able recipe manager for the kitchen :)	10:59
ccooke	okay, so. People would be interested in something like this. Good.	11:00
ccooke	liri: that makes sense, yes	11:00
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liri	ccooke: well I don't know about "People"... we're just 3 guys here discussing this. I say, summarize this talk and put it on ITT and let's see what others have to say. Let's see if everyone think it's a good idea to have "subscriptions" to rss feeds which are synced for offline viewing	11:01
liri	ccooke: well it makes alot of sense because then the wife can't say "I don't have any idea what to cook!" hehe	11:01
ccooke	I can probably get something that's ugly but functional up and working in the next day or so, actually. Probably manual sync initially, though	11:01
ccooke	by 'people', I really mean 'more than me'.	11:02
liri	heh	11:02
ccooke	I'm bored and looking for something to code	11:02
ccooke	anything will do, so long as it's not wasted effort	11:03
ccooke	and, since I'm a sysadmin, most of what I code is plumbing. Not something you can get people too interested in :-)	11:03
liri	I hear ya pal	11:04
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ccooke	Right. That's a minor challenge set for me - a functional website before I go to the pub this evening :-)	11:05
* qwerty12 has to stifle a laugh seeing the latest spam on itt		11:05
liri	ccooke: if you have the time, put it on ITT, it's interesting to see if other users would have more ideas	11:06
* qwerty12 installed bash-completion on my tablet yesterday. I swear I'm loving not using busybox's ash by the minute		11:09
ccooke	liri: can do.	11:09
ccooke	don't ghink I've ever posted there yet.	11:10
liri	well there's always a first time	11:10
* Italodance [Nick: Italodance] [Server: wolfe.freenode.net:6667] [Server UpTime: 1day 3hrs 32mins 26secs] [mIRC UpTime: 1day 3hrs 34mins 12secs] [] [CPU: 1-Intel Pentium 4, 2395MHz, 0KB (0% Load) ]		11:11
* Italodance [WinXP UpTime: 1day 3hrs 37mins 38secs] [Idle: 1day 3hrs 28mins 25secs] [Time&Date: 11:40:56 × 21/09/2008] [DCC Gets: 0/0] [DCC Sends: 0/0] [Memory Usage: 306/512MB (59.77%) ]		11:11
liri	ccooke: thinking about it more, it could probably be extended to more than just "rss", just like the recipe content... so I think we're onto something here	11:11
ccooke	hmm. what were you thinking of?	11:12
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liri	ccooke: well the recipe thing is one idea but I think there is more content than just that that people would want. I can't put my finger on it just yet but I'm sure others would enlighten us	11:14
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ccooke	Ah, that's better. Switched from my Nokia to the laptop with a (more) full-sized keyboard!	11:16
qwerty12	ccooke: Have an N800? :p	11:17
ccooke	n810.	11:17
ccooke	I don't buy devices without a hardware keyboard.	11:17
qwerty12	Ah, I'm irc'ing with the vkb, I've got pretty used to it	11:18
liri	yeah, the keyboard is not ALL that comfortable on the n810. I replied an email on it a few days ago... it hurt my fingers :)	11:18
qwerty12	fingers crossed, that nokia release a better keyboard in the N900 (i'm not a fan of the N810 keyboard)	11:18
qwerty12	Though I can't deny my only "experience" was in the N810 emulator	11:19
ccooke	I've been using the n810 to take notes in work meetings since December	11:20
ccooke	I've ended up surprisingly fast on it.	11:20
RST38h	qwerty: I have already asked Cthulhu to make Nokia built a better directional pad into N9x0 ! =)	11:20
ccooke	RST38h: That would be good	11:21
Proteous	a good Dpad and some video accell and we are set	11:21
ccooke	indeed	11:21
RST38h	qwerty: I mean, The Great Green One has heard me about E70 replacement so this request has really good chances too =)	11:21
ccooke	I'm really hoping they don't remove the keyboard :-/	11:21
Proteous	me tooo	11:22
RST38h	they will remove keyboard, make device of gray plastic and round the corners mylo-style!	11:22
ccooke	That's the only thing that would prevent me from buying the new tablet	11:22
ccooke	RST38h: Nooooo!	11:22
qwerty12	RST38h: That's great :)	11:22
RST38h	qwerty: There weren't any Applet nutballs around to make a proper sacrifice though	11:23
RST38h	s/Applet/Apple/	11:23
infobot	RST38h meant: qwerty: There weren't any Apple nutballs around to make a proper sacrifice though	11:23
qwerty12	But yeah, if the keyboard is gone, then I'm not buying the N900. The rest seems really good, I hope they don't let it down with no keyboard.	11:23
qwerty12	lol	11:23
Proteous	even though the n810 keyboard isn't amazing, it's way better then the OSK of my old 770	11:24
liri	if the gps takes more than 30 seconds to get a lock, ANYWHERE, then I'm not buying the N800 either :)	11:24
qwerty12	N800 has a gps?!? :P	11:24
Proteous	no	11:24
* liri is talking about N810		11:25
StsN800	ccooke, cron is unreliable due to it not using retu alarm wakeup	11:25
Proteous	not to be confused with crom, who is unreliable because he is a god from the movie conan the barbaian	11:25
ccooke	StsN800: Right. So we use the alarm, then.	11:26
StsN800	ccooke, just warning about pitfalls:)	11:26
ccooke	StsN800: yep. Thanks :-)	11:27
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ccooke	considering the keyboard on the 810, I'm amazed how much I jse it	11:28
ccooke	although I do still make some mistakes grin	11:29
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* RST38h does not use n810 kbd much		11:33
RST38h	still mostly using on-screen keyboard	11:33
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Stslaptop	i would just love a keyboard where the q is actually a little to the left :P	11:34
Stslaptop	as it's closer to how i normally write	11:34
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ccooke	yes, that would be good	11:40
ccooke	hell, what I want is a PDA with a keyboard to match the Psion 5. But I won't get it :-)	11:40
Stslaptop	i would be happy with that shapewriter or wtf it was called really	11:41
Stslaptop	for on screen keyboard	11:42
Stslaptop	someone should really make an input method that acts like that (yes, i'm aware of patent problems)	11:42
Stslaptop	but then again that would be a software patent :P	11:43
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* Stslap wonders why this train sounds like one of the wheels is cracked		11:57
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t_s_o	i could have sworn there are previous systems that work like shapewiter, and therefor it cant be patented, or something like that...	12:08
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liri	I wish there would've been a suite of google apps synchronization (contacts, calendar, notebooks, docs, etc)	12:15
Stslap	t_s_o: i've seen it before too somewhere though, but that might have been IBM too	12:19
Stslap	but it's definately not a T9 idea	12:20
t_s_o	http://www.jkontherun.com/2008/09/swype-demos-at.html <- seems there is more then one implementation of the same idea floating around. hard to tell what came first tho	12:21
Stslap	shapewriter was first afaik	12:22
t_s_o	under the name of shark by the looks of it?	12:23
Stslap	yeah	12:23
t_s_o	no wonder i hate sortware patents...	12:24
aspect	http://www.henricodolfing.com/2008/09/gesture-based-data-entry-war.html	12:26
Stslap	there's probably some way around it	12:26
aspect	apparently all three have patents	12:26
Stslap	neat	12:26
aspect	yeah the USPTO is crazy clever	12:26
t_s_o	may we live in interesting times...	12:26
Stslap	and it just harms innovation really	12:27
Stslap	i'd rather see the tablet use get increased, giving strength to hw producers	12:27
aspect	if I were patient enough I'd read all their claims just to point out how similar they are	12:27
Stslap	and cheaper prices	12:27
Stslap	than a bloody patent war	12:27
aspect	oh, there's an easy way to avoid seeing a patent war	12:28
aspect	stick your head in the sand	12:28
t_s_o	the way i see its (and i have a similar issue with copyright) is that the timeframe for a patent is set based on the development time of a physical system. software on the other hand, can come into existence and vanish again in just a year, but a software patent will outlast that at least x10...	12:28
Stslap	i think i could personally in .dk avoid the US patent obviously, but distributing to US people .debs would be problematic	12:28
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Stslap	i would actually pay for shapewriter as a HIM	12:31
Stslap	(it exists for android, linux, mac already)	12:32
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Stslap	http://pokristensson.com/pubs/KristenssonZhaiUIST2004.pdf <- kinda odd it doesn't say patent pending or anything	12:44
Stslap	so i guess it would be okay implementing from	12:44
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blafasel	Morning	13:04
jott	hey folks	13:04
jott	Stslap: just because it's not mentioned it does not mean there isn't a bunch of us patents..	13:04
jott	Stslap: http://tinyurl.com/3khr95	13:05
*** lpotter is now known as qQQQzAZ		13:07
qQQQzAZ	Q1QAZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ	13:07
qQQQzAZ	ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ	13:07
qQQQzAZ	ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ	13:07
jott	Stslap: http://tinyurl.com/3pnb3g	13:07
qQQQzAZ	ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ	13:07
qQQQzAZ	ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ	13:07
qQQQzAZ	ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ	13:08
qQQQzAZ	ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ	13:08
jott	wooo cat attack?	13:08
qQQQzAZ	ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ	13:08
qQQQzAZ	ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ	13:08
qQQQzAZ		13:08
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qQQQzAZ		13:08
qQQQzAZ		13:08
qQQQzAZ		13:08
qQQQzAZ		13:08
qQQQzAZ		13:08
towo	Arr, this is one of those channels where I don't have channel operator right.s	13:08
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qQQQzAZ		13:08
jott	qQQQzAZ: move your cat :)	13:08
qQQQzAZ		13:08
qQQQzAZ		13:09
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qQQQzAZ		13:09
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t_s_o	jott: i dont recall ever seeing a cat make such uniform inputs...	13:15
yacoob	he just needed to lie down on the keyboard	13:15
woglinde	hi	13:15
t_s_o	yacoob: maybe so, but i would have expected more keys to be pressed then...	13:16
jott	hello	13:16
woglinde	hi jott	13:16
woglinde	jott the keymap trick worked	13:16
jott	t_s_o: na, cats like to type "z"	13:16
woglinde	for nxagent	13:16
jott	ah nice.	13:16
aspect	funny; this cat only needs to lie on the keyboard while I'm using it	13:16
towo	lolcatz.	13:16
t_s_o	ok, now i want a cheeseburger...	13:16
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qQQQzAZ	ermmm	13:19
jott	the patent lawyer already must have taken stslap :D	13:19
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jott	lpotter: so was it a cat, child or what? :)	13:19
t_s_o	http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/09/17/funny-pictures-srry-but/ <- nokia bug fixer at work?	13:19
jott	solve the mystery	13:19
lpotter	cat.. and kid :) sorry	13:23
t_s_o	heh, must have been one hell of a sight	13:24
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Stskeeps	jott: nah, train disconnect :>	13:45
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Stskeeps	'lo aladds_	13:46
aladds_	hey	13:46
aladds_	ah crap	13:46
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Stskeeps	aladds: could you ls -lR /lib/dsp for me at some point? (from os2006)	13:46
aladds	yeah 'course	13:47
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Stskeeps	need to make osso-dsp-modules-su-18 so :P	13:47
aladds	ah	13:47
aladds	fair enough	13:47
Stskeeps	if you for some reason know how to squeeze out /usr/bin/Xomap from a OS2008 fiasco image you're also welcome (so we can make xserver :P)	13:48
Stskeeps	also i made udev-nokernelcheck for 770 purposes	13:48
Stskeeps	(it adds something to udev.conf that disables kernel check)	13:48
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aladds	http://pastebin.com/d222d59a8	13:49
aladds	cool	13:49
aladds	hmm	13:50
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aladds	i don't know how easy it would be to get the file from OS2008	13:50
aladds	i can give it to you from OS2006	13:50
aladds	i'd prefer not to reflash though	13:50
Stskeeps	yeah.. i prefer from OS2008 and i dont want you to reflash either :P	13:50
aladds	then i'd have to reload stuff and redo the bootloader	13:50
aladds	what's the bin file?	13:51
aladds	is it just a jffs2 image?	13:51
Stskeeps	sec	13:51
aladds	cos i've got it here	13:51
Stskeeps	try apt-get install 0xffff from deblet, 0xFFFF -e /root/imgdump	13:53
Stskeeps	(mkdir -p /root/imgdump first)	13:53
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aladds	let me reboot	13:53
Stskeeps	k	13:53
Stskeeps	oh	13:53
Stskeeps	nm	13:53
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Stskeeps	that's from OS2006 obviously.	13:54
aladds	oh	13:54
Stskeeps	so don't do that :P	13:54
aladds	ok :P	13:54
jott	Stskeeps: why not compile the xserver instead of extracting it from the image?!	13:54
Stskeeps	jott: i can't find exact sources for OS2008HE	13:54
jott	aren't they the same?	13:54
Stskeeps	but yes, that's a possibility	13:54
Stskeeps	no, there's a fix for xorg that isn't in patches	13:55
Stskeeps	afaik	13:55
Stskeeps	the binary is easier to get anyhow :P	13:55
Stskeeps	aladds: flasher-3.0 has an --unpack option	13:55
aladds	hmm	13:55
jott	Stskeeps: hmm only for 770 or what?	13:56
Stskeeps	jott: yeah	13:56
aladds	there's no flasher-3.0 for osx	13:57
aladds	:(	13:57
aladds	only up to 2.0	13:58
aladds	ah well	13:58
* aladds downloads an ubuntu iso :P		13:58
Stskeeps	aladds: it doesnt have -u?	13:59
jott	ah btw, dsme will come in 1-2 weeks	13:59
aladds	doesn't look like it	13:59
jott	talked to one of the devs yesterday	14:00
Stskeeps	jott: sounds good	14:00
Stskeeps	aladds: can you grab the sources thing for me from OS2008HE maybe?	14:00
Stskeeps	i don't have a MAC handy :P	14:00
Stskeeps	then i can maybe compile it on my own	14:01
aladds	Stskeeps: would it make more sense for me to run debian lenny on the desktop?	14:05
Stskeeps	aladds: mm, maybe - but it isn't needed	14:07
aladds	well, it'll be virtualised, so :P	14:08
aladds	and i just got REALLY odd deja-vu	14:08
aladds	which is odd	14:08
aladds	:P	14:08
Stskeeps	hehe	14:09
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aladds	although i didn't see the flapjack...	14:10
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yacoob	cats and bacon don't mix	14:25
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Stskeeps	i had bacon for breakfast.. mm.	14:26
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Stskeeps	jott: found xorg sources :P	14:34
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RST38h	Speccy-Maemo 1.6.3 is now in Extras	14:51
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ccooke	liri: You still around?	15:03
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RST38h	any suggestions on what to use for serial line terminal in linux?	15:14
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thux	hi, didn't find telepathy-idle anymore, is it ended?	15:14
woglinde	RST38h minicom or cutecom	15:15
fnordianslip	RST38h: i've used screen before	15:15
woglinde	cutecom is nicer, but you can run vi in sane way	15:15
woglinde	can not	15:15
RST38h	thanks	15:15
woglinde	and no scripting support if I remeber correctly	15:16
Stskeeps	aladds: apt-get update; apt-get install xserver-xomap-770	15:19
aladds	Stskeeps: in deblet, yes?	15:19
Stskeeps	yes	15:19
* aladds boots it up		15:19
aladds	updating	15:20
Stskeeps	and then try to /usr/bin/Xomap after doing fb_update_mode manual	15:23
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thux	can i get irc and msn support to telepathy or is it osso-chat-ui chavo these dayz?	15:26
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aladds	ok it's installed	15:41
Stskeeps	does /usr/bin/Xomap run?	15:41
aladds	Fatal server error:	15:41
aladds	LinuxInit: Server must be suid root	15:41
aladds	evidently now	15:41
aladds	*not	15:41
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Stskeeps	that's fine, chown root:root /usr/bin/Xomap	15:42
Stskeeps	chmod a+s /usr/bin/Xomap	15:42
Stskeeps	i did a mistake in packaging which im submitting to packages atm	15:42
aladds	it's not too happy	15:43
aladds	http://pastebin.com/d4220ae0c	15:43
aladds	screen went black, then gave me a single underscore caret in the top left	15:44
Stskeeps	that's fine	15:46
aladds	it does sit there at that point though	15:46
aladds	doesn't quit	15:47
Stskeeps	yeah, it's fine	15:47
Stskeeps	sec	15:47
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Stskeeps	can you apt-get install equivs?	15:57
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Stskeeps	(this will pull in a bit of stuff :/)	15:59
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Stskeeps	well, or don't.. sec	16:00
Stskeeps	apt-get update; apt-get install nit-env-basic hal tablet-x x-session	16:01
Stskeeps	verify it doesn't try to download xserver-xomap (xserver-xomap-770 is okay)	16:02
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aladds	shall try	16:05
aladds	updating	16:05
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johnx	hmm...there's new svn updates to matchbox-keyboard. maybe one of them has fixes...	16:07
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Stskeeps	Benny1967: sufficient answer to the initfs stuff?	16:08
Benny1967	omg, didnt return to itt since i posted it ;)	16:09
Stskeeps	hehe	16:09
Benny1967	so in fact the current way is better?	16:10
Stskeeps	well it depends on how they're going to do it.	16:10
Stskeeps	if they allow people to make a grub like bootmenu - it's fantastic	16:11
Benny1967	no drawbacks with initfs/rootfs?	16:11
Stskeeps	there's some, obviously, but i don't mind having a "rescue mode"	16:11
Stskeeps	since rootfs's tend to get corrupted	16:11
aladds	Stskeeps: i don't see xserver-xomap in there	16:11
aladds	go?	16:11
Stskeeps	yep	16:12
Stskeeps	you might have to apt-get upgrade xserver-xomap-770 afterwards	16:12
Stskeeps	for good measure	16:12
aladds	righto	16:13
Benny1967	but to make it short: "no more initfs" is not the big thing everyone has been waiting for, right?	16:13
Stskeeps	Benny1967: if they don't make a fucked up solution where it can only boot from internal flash, yes	16:14
Benny1967	thx ;)	16:14
Stskeeps	it might make other OS'es on tablet easier, but it may also just make it more difficult	16:14
Stskeeps	there was a bugzilla thing on this..	16:14
aladds	configuring console-data	16:15
aladds	don't touch keymap?	16:15
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Stskeeps	yeah	16:16
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aladds	doing xomap-zz0 upgrade	16:29
aladds	7770	16:29
aladds	770	16:29
aladds	:P	16:29
Stskeeps	hehe, Nokia Zz0, the optimized 770 ;)	16:30
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johnx	Zz0 with new optimized sleep mode?	16:31
aladds	:P	16:31
aladds	with any sleep mode would be nice...	16:31
johnx	put the cover on it? boom!	16:31
aladds	not asleep though	16:32
Stskeeps	it has a cover sensor? :P	16:32
johnx	...as Jobs would say	16:32
johnx	the 770?	16:32
johnx	yeah it had cool stuff	16:32
johnx	had a better d-pad too	16:32
aladds	it even knows if the battery cover is open	16:32
aladds	:P	16:32
aladds	it's got a lottle reed switch	16:32
aladds	little	16:32
johnx	the n800 can tell if its battery cover is open and even the other sd card slot, but it never came with a plastic shel/case/thing	16:33
Benny1967	dont you guys talk about the 770. mine died only a few weeks ago :(	16:34
johnx	sadness :(	16:34
aladds	:(	16:34
Stskeeps	WSOD?	16:34
Benny1967	apart from being a bit slower it was so much cooler than the N8x0	16:35
aladds	Stskeeps: all installed	16:35
Benny1967	wsod. how do you know?	16:35
Stskeeps	aladds: reboot and see if xterm comes up :)	16:35
* aladds types reboot		16:36
johnx	Benny1967, most die that way if they're not physically abused	16:36
Stskeeps	it's like natural death for 770s, like with humans	16:36
Stskeeps	:P	16:36
Benny1967	mhm... i wonder if they'll ever sell a mobile device like the 770 again :(	16:37
johnx	probably not	16:37
johnx	they'll stick with physical keyboards I bet	16:38
* aladds is looking at console messages, which seem static		16:38
ccooke	I hope so...	16:38
johnx	and I don't see a cover or true sleep mode coming back	16:38
* aladds wonders if he should apt-get remove gpm		16:38
ccooke	A hard cover would be nice.	16:38
Benny1967	i can live with a keyboard but not without a cover	16:38
ccooke	true sleep mode... I actually think that what the n8x0 do is much better	16:39
ccooke	Benny1967: I bought a third-party hard shell for my n810	16:39
Benny1967	no cover = not mobile	16:39
johnx	ccooke, it is for a lot of people a lot of the time	16:39
johnx	Benny1967, cell phone seem to get by ok	16:39
ccooke	johnx: it's certainly impressive. It's one place where the Nokias are a length ahead of any competitor	16:40
Benny1967	me too, my N800 now lives within an ugly leather case....	16:40
Stskeeps	"true sleep mode"?	16:40
johnx	Stskeeps, uhm, suspend to RAM	16:40
Benny1967	... but it has no way of knowing if the cover is closed so that it can sleep.	16:40
ccooke	Benny1967: ah. the aluminium cover for the n810 is actually really nice. It leaves the external buttons accessible	16:41
* aladds noices the screen has gone black		16:41
aladds	notices	16:41
Stskeeps	any xterm popping up yet? :P	16:41
Stskeeps	johnx: i'm planning to play a little with n800-s2ram at some point and deblet	16:41
aladds	not yet	16:41
ccooke	Benny1967: on the n810, there's autolock - lock the screen whenever it goes dark. Now that should be installed as a standard option!	16:41
johnx	with the n810 you can do clever things about locking/sleeping when the light sensor detects inactivity and complete darkness	16:41
aladds	i just have black atm	16:41
Stskeeps	aladds: could you give me a ps aux?	16:41
aladds	already done	16:42
aladds	http://pastebin.com/d433b3c0b	16:42
aladds	and a top	16:42
Stskeeps	eh, is that ps aux complete?	16:43
aladds	mm	16:43
Benny1967	i dont trust all these intelligent modes... the 770s magnetic switch was it. ;)	16:43
Stskeeps	there seem to be missing udev and all that jazz	16:43
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aladds	http://pastebin.com/d6efc5290	16:43
aladds	oops	16:43
qwerty12_N800	quick question, for mount.cifs to work, does cifs.ko need to be insmodded?	16:43
aladds	:P	16:43
Stskeeps	okay, so no X running	16:43
ccooke	Benny1967: heh. The thing is, going to sleep is actually against what the device is billed as, though	16:43
Stskeeps	/etc/init.d/x-session start	16:44
ccooke	Benny1967: it's supposed to be always on - so IM stays connected, it can update stuff...	16:44
aladds	Fatal server error:	16:44
aladds	omapCardInit: couldn't open dispc gfx plane	16:44
aladds	waiting for X server to begin accepting connections	16:44
aladds	giving up.	16:44
aladds	xinit: Connection reset by peer (errno 104): unable to connect to X server	16:44
aladds	xinit: No such process (errno 3): Server error.	16:44
qwerty12_N800	Benny1967: closing the cover would put it in softpoweroff which can still be used on the n8x0 but with nowhere near the easiness	16:44
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Stskeeps	aladds: think i've been here before..	16:45
aladds	oh?	16:45
Benny1967	;) i know what nokia wants it to do. i just prefer my devices to do what I want them to.	16:45
Benny1967	else i'd buy apple	16:45
ccooke	heh	16:45
* aladds buys apple anyway, most of what they do is what i want		16:45
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aladds	and for what they don't, i'm learning objective-c :P	16:46
* johnx keeps getting torn between mac os x and linux, but is on a linux kick right now		16:46
Stskeeps	aladds: apt-get remove x-session, apt-get install gdm lxde tablet-gdm-autologin xsession-gtkstylus matchbox-keyboard	16:46
Stskeeps	and dpkg --purge x-session	16:46
Benny1967	apple really frightens me to death	16:46
johnx	Benny1967, "our way or the highway"?	16:47
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johnx	or something else? the zealots? the koolaid?	16:47
ccooke	I like apple... but they have, as yet, failed to make a single product I would ever buy	16:48
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aladds	not even the 12" powerbook?	16:48
aladds	it was so cute	16:48
aladds	:P	16:48
ccooke	Actually, I tell a lie - I've thought about buying an ipod nano, but I already had a solution for music I was happy with	16:48
Stskeeps	aladds: running out of SD space yet? :P	16:48
ccooke	aladds: I bought one for my wife. She still uses it.	16:48
ccooke	and yes, it's cute!	16:49
johnx	my next laptop is either macbook or a lenovo x200	16:49
aladds	Stskeeps: nah, only 31% used	16:49
ccooke	But it takes me several hours (including searches and downloads) to get OSX to a point where I don't mind using it. Wheras I can configure an Ubuntu box the way I like it in about 20 minutes.	16:49
derf	My next laptop I want one of those ultra-light 1kg ones.	16:50
* aladds has a black macbook		16:50
aladds	it's awsome	16:50
aladds	and i can run other OSs inside it anyway	16:50
aladds	Sun's xVM is free :-)	16:50
ccooke	aladds: yes, but if you're buying a macbook in order to rip away OSX, then that has to be a negative. For a start, every other os uses a second mouse button...	16:51
aladds	Stskeeps: now it wants to use 199MB of space :P	16:51
johnx	in my case, the macbook is a pretty big size/price/weight premium for the privilege of running osx	16:51
Stskeeps	aladds: aye	16:51
Stskeeps	:P	16:51
aladds	ccooke: i use osx all the time, it's the best OS I've ever used	16:52
aladds	Linux comes close	16:52
ccooke	The closest I've come to buying an Apple machine was the last time I bought a laptop, two years ago. But at the time, their 17" macbook pros were... well, pretty pathetic, actually	16:52
ccooke	aladds: It's very nice, but it doesn't think the way I think.	16:52
aladds	the older MacBook Pros were	16:52
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aladds	ccooke: I came from Mac OS 9 land, so OSX was a very welcome change	16:53
ccooke	aladds: yeah. I had a nice conversation with an Apple guy on the plane home from Tokyo a couple of years back, asking for higher resolution screens and better graphics :-)	16:53
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Benny1967	hehe ... "but it doesn't think the way I think."	16:53
Benny1967	that's it	16:53
ccooke	Benny1967: you understand me, yes?	16:53
johnx	ccooke, I know what you mean. :)	16:54
Benny1967	2 friends of mine run osx	16:54
aladds	many of mine do	16:54
Benny1967	i cant use these computers	16:54
ccooke	Benny1967: It's based on some fundamental assumptions of how you will work. Those assumptions are better than the ones Windows uses, for instance	16:54
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ccooke	but I have been using unix - in text mode, mainly - for more than 15 years.	16:54
johnx	if linux doesn't work the way you want it to, you tell it to do something different. but with osx it's really counterproductive to try and make it do something differently	16:54
ccooke	I do not think that way :-)	16:54
johnx	ccooke, exactly	16:55
Benny1967	each time i want to resize a window i go mad	16:55
aladds	I agree with the stupid zoom button	16:55
johnx	for some people osx works really well. for a lot of things I needed to do at the time it worked really well. but I always came back to linux in the end	16:55
aladds	some applications work, some don't	16:55
Benny1967	or: it took me ages to find out where minimized applications go	16:55
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johnx	aladds, actually in the zoom vs maximize debate I fall on the osx side :D	16:56
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aladds	really?	16:56
johnx	I never maximize apps anyways	16:56
aladds	fair enough	16:56
aladds	with laptop screens it's better when you do	16:56
Benny1967	it's just like it's from another planet	16:56
aladds	:P	16:56
johnx	it's a waste of screen real estate. so what I really want an app to do is "resize until all the contents fit"	16:56
johnx	saves me doing that by hand since that's what I want 90% of the time	16:57
aladds	what annoys me about the zoom buttons though is how it's not consistant	16:57
derf	Is there really no way to mark a bug as a duplicate on garage?	16:57
Stskeeps	johnx: isn't it possible to tell openbox to take a window with a class/name and make it appear like a taskbar?	16:57
johnx	but I can't deal with click to focus on a laptop/desktop	16:57
Stskeeps	johnx: because that'd give us h-i-m in openbox	16:57
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Stskeeps	(you know, docking)	16:57
johnx	Stskeeps, I'll see if the h-i-m window is gives us the right info	16:57
ccooke	johnx: ugh, I hate having to click on things to focus. And I can't work without multiple desktops.	16:58
Stskeeps	it might have to resize it and stuff	16:58
johnx	resize is doable I think	16:58
johnx	Stskeeps, what's the package again?	16:58
Stskeeps	johnx: for h-i-m?	16:58
johnx	yeah	16:58
aladds	ccooke: osx has multiple desktops now	16:58
Stskeeps	http://packages.linuxniche.net/deblet/pool/main/h/	16:58
Stskeeps	johnx: did you see qole's hillarious h-i-m screenshot in easy debian?	16:59
ccooke	aladds: yes. That's one application of the dozen or so I wouldn't have to find in order to not get too badly frustrated ;-)	16:59
johnx	Stskeeps, not yet	16:59
Stskeeps	http://www.flickr.com/photos/qole2/2853096131/	16:59
ccooke	aladds: maybe in another decade or so, I'll buy an OSX machine...	16:59
johnx	ccooke, it's integrated now	16:59
aladds	I am loving Time Machine though	17:00
aladds	backup you can forget about :P	17:00
ccooke	yeah, that's a nice piece of software	17:00
Benny1967	ah, flickr.... rrainisto? r u here or anyone who knows him?	17:00
aladds	i only have to remember to plug my big drive into it every now and again	17:00
johnx	aladds, a nice wrapper around lvm2+rdiff snapshots essentially	17:00
aladds	yeah, but it has a nice interface :P	17:01
aladds	everything in OSX has polish	17:01
aladds	and i like that	17:01
aladds	it's all finished	17:01
Stskeeps	johnx: instructions at http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=221728&postcount=19	17:01
aladds	it all works	17:01
johnx	aladds, well it's all finished...and if you find anything that's not finished you have to wait for someone else to fix it or do without	17:01
Stskeeps	aladds: still downloading? :P	17:02
aladds	Stskeeps: as you said that it finished downloading	17:02
aladds	:P	17:02
Stskeeps	hehe	17:02
Benny1967	aladds, but it doesn't work the way i want it to.	17:02
ccooke	aladds: Yeah, it's a really nice system.	17:02
aladds	granted, perhaps not how you want it to	17:03
aladds	brb phone	17:03
Benny1967	and being pretty isn't enough for a long time relationship	17:03
johnx	I loved osx about 80% of the time, tolerated it 10% and was in a screaming rage at it the other 10%	17:03
aladds	back perhaps not	17:03
ccooke	johnx: I'm around 50/20/30, unfortunately.	17:03
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Stskeeps	i wonder what the % is for maemo :P	17:03
Stskeeps	i'm a 60% 20% 20% or something	17:04
aladds	my linux experience isn't amazing i have to say	17:04
ccooke	Stskeeps: maemo is... not polished. But it's actually functional, which makes up for a lot.	17:04
aladds	i used to run ubuntu on a vaio	17:04
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aladds	the hardware was so poor...	17:04
Benny1967	but i'm probably applecally challenged or so.... i couldn't use an iphone either.	17:04
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aladds	i would never buy sony computers	17:04
aladds	(it was free)	17:05
Benny1967	just couldn't type, couldn't surf, couldn't do anything	17:05
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Stskeeps	aladds: nice newton pics btw on flickr :P	17:05
aladds	oh the iPhone is awsome	17:05
aladds	oh i forgot about those	17:05
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aladds	yeah	17:05
aladds	i also has a 130	17:05
aladds	*have	17:05
Benny1967	aladds, not if you want to type a mail	17:05
ccooke	heh. iphone is, again, a really great device I have no temptation to buy	17:06
aladds	the on screen keyboard on the iPhone is the best of any device so far	17:06
ccooke	for the things I want to do, it can't compare at all to the n810	17:06
johnx	aladds, you should try the n800's onscreen thumb keyboard	17:06
Benny1967	aladds, in terms of what? i cannot type on that thing	17:07
ccooke	johnx: yeah, that's surprisingly good	17:07
aladds	i've used it on OS2008HE	17:07
aladds	it's ok, but you can't see anything else	17:07
Benny1967	in landscape mode i could, very slowly, but else... no way	17:07
johnx	aladds, but you can type faster with it...	17:07
aladds	i've only used it in the shop though	17:08
ccooke	aladds: the iphone one is fine as long as you have small fingers. Unfortunately, while I do have small fingers... they're small for a 6'8" guy with huge bones :-)	17:08
johnx	but yeah, the iphone is another great product as long as it does everything you want already	17:08
aladds	and i was comparing it to my current phone, which sucks	17:08
aladds	johnx: agreed	17:08
Benny1967	johnx, it's the other way round: as long as you want what it allows	17:09
aladds	as a mobile phone, i think it's the best you can buy	17:09
aladds	comparing it to SE or Nokia S60	17:09
ccooke	aladds: please qualify that... it's the best you can buy :-)	17:09
johnx	Benny1967, either way, don't get it with the thought of bending it to your will. it's quite the other way around	17:09
ccooke	The iphone is actually pretty shit in several categories...	17:10
Benny1967	aladds, except that as a phone it's really bad and drops calls.	17:10
aladds	ccooke: it's too expesive though :(	17:10
aladds	Benny1967: that depends on service mainly	17:10
ccooke	aladds: that's one of them. Another is if you're after a camera phone.	17:10
johnx	aladds, except that it's worse than other phones on the same service all over the world	17:10
johnx	though that has been improved, IIRC	17:11
Benny1967	also, you might want a phone that you can type on. with real keys.	17:11
aladds	i think for apple's second phone it's fucking incredible	17:11
ccooke	johnx: that's bad, but it will get sorted out. It's poor QA, though.	17:11
ccooke	aladds: see, there's the problem - you're giving them the benefit of the doubt automatically.	17:11
aladds	Benny1967: but are there any phones with real keys which have good keyboards? :P	17:12
darklajid	HTC	17:12
aladds	Palms have teensey keys	17:12
ccooke	aladds: wheras... Apple are a vast, multibillion dollar enterprise. They have more than enough money to get things very well tested; that they didn't is a mistake that they should have known better for.	17:12
Benny1967	ccooke, people do so because it's "pretty". nothing else counts.	17:12
ccooke	It's not a mistake that's too huge, mind - they'll improve on it and I do believe they'll learn. However, it's still a big error!	17:13
johnx	aladds, all it matters is how fast you can type. blackberry and treo users will be able to type faster than iphone users	17:13
Benny1967	aladds, any normal phone with numeric keys and t9 is better for typing (for me)	17:13
ccooke	(um. I mean: It's not something to flay them alive for, but it is something to point to and say "I expected better")	17:13
* johnx is disappointed with the trend of reduced tactile feedback in devices :/		17:13
aladds	i agree with that actually	17:14
ccooke	johnx: the n810 is better than I expected... especially with the key click sounds on.	17:14
aladds	someone needs to develop some sort of haptic feedback which doesn't involve a vibrator	17:14
darklajid	Yeah, but an IBM M-Series keyboard on an N810 might look like shit..	17:14
ccooke	but I'd love something like the Zaurus had (shame that wouldn't slide so well)	17:14
johnx	the n810 is actually pleasently the other direction from my complaint	17:14
RST38h	moo all	17:14
johnx	m00 RST38h	17:15
RST38h	johnx: there was any tactile feedback in devices before?	17:15
RST38h	Or do you mean non-flat buttons by this?	17:15
johnx	RST38h, volume dials instead of unmoving buttons, dpads instead of touchpads	17:15
RST38h	oh that	17:15
johnx	things that you could feel instead of having to look at	17:15
aladds	I'd love to know when Access/Palm are releasing something with Access Linux on it	17:16
RST38h	I can tell you a few horror stories about this stuff ;)	17:16
aladds	if that'll ever happen	17:16
Benny1967	i agree with johnx	17:16
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RST38h	Like BBK (known as Oppo in US) making a PMP without any real buttons	17:16
Stskeeps	johnx: how stable is debian midori btw?	17:16
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RST38h	It was a nice looking PMP, slim metal case buttons at the edge	17:17
johnx	yah, and can people hit the "skip track" button on their ipod (or equivalent) while it's in their pocket?	17:17
RST38h	Unfortunately, poor thing was so sensitive that it could not figure out what you were pressing	17:17
johnx	Stskeeps, pretty stable.	17:17
RST38h	(if at all)	17:17
aladds	johnx: they have a remote now	17:17
aladds	but you're right	17:17
Benny1967	mhm, lunchtime....	17:17
johnx	Stskeeps, playing with new matcgbox-keyboard right now. seeing if it can be made to behave	17:17
Stskeeps	johnx: sounds good	17:17
Stskeeps	aladds: installation still going on?	17:17
aladds	Stskeeps: gdm at the moment	17:18
aladds	unpacking	17:18
aladds	:P	17:18
Benny1967	see you later	17:18
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RST38h	johnx: afaik, iPods are a bit different	17:19
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johnx	RST38h, when I said equivalent I meant any mp3 player these days	17:20
RST38h	johnx: they rely on triggering multiple sensors in a certain order	17:20
johnx	most fail the the "change tracks without looking at it test"	17:20
RST38h	johnx: well, it is RIGHT dpad direction on my E70 :)	17:21
RST38h	And no, I have no idea why people buy those players at the first place	17:21
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johnx	heh...same reason they buy heavy laptops with poor battery life: failure to critically think about their own use case	17:22
aladds	my Sony K750i uses the volume buttons to change tracks	17:22
aladds	if you hold them down	17:22
aladds	but the media player is awful	17:22
aladds	can't browse by artist	17:22
derf	I buy heavy laptops with poor battery life to do tech demos at conferences.	17:22
RST38h	johnx: But bigger is better! =)	17:23
johnx	derf, you don't count :P	17:23
ccooke	derf: Heh. I buy huge laptops because I can't use small ones :-)	17:23
RST38h	derf: Real people use IBM RS6000 with a 2048x2048 indutrial monitor for tech demos	17:23
RST38h	derf: (the monitor is 80+kg)	17:23
qwerty12_N800	aladds: flash with w800 firmware. i used to have a k750, i used to patch and mod it and loved it. joystick broke and i mod w810 now	17:24
derf	RST38h: I don't want to have to ship it out there. I want to carry it on a plane.	17:24
RST38h	derf: what a terrorist!	17:24
aladds	qwerty12_N800: I've looked into it before, my phone has brown firmware	17:24
aladds	:(	17:24
derf	Hey, I have a TSA-approved laptop bag!	17:24
aladds	my joystick's pretty much broken too...	17:24
* RST38h wraps his laptop in clothing		17:24
* aladds needs a new phone		17:25
RST38h	It is too small for a separate bag - most bags are heavier than the laptop itself	17:25
qwerty12_N800	aladds: you can flash a red erom or buy a £15 service cable and use cracked setool	17:25
aladds	it's not worth it	17:25
aladds	this phone's no fun	17:25
aladds	my J70 was way cooler	17:25
ccooke	derf: the problem with big laptops on planes is you often can't recharge them - this beast uses a 130W charger, for instance...	17:25
qwerty12_N800	aladds: google elfpack	17:25
aladds	I had NiMar's firmware & loads of custom apps	17:26
derf	ccooke: I don't care about actually using it on the plane.	17:26
ccooke	derf: just carrying it? Okay, that makes sense.	17:26
derf	I usually don't have internet on the plane, so what's the point?	17:26
RST38h	ccooke: recharging the laptop is the last thing I think about when on a plane	17:26
derf	And if I do, I've got an N810.	17:26
aladds	qwerty12_N800: looks cool	17:26
RST38h	but if I really need to use it on a plane, a new R100 with two batteries runs for about 7-8 hours	17:27
ccooke	RST38h: Not bad...	17:27
RST38h	Mine runs for 40 minutes though - both batteries are close to dead	17:27
qwerty12_N800	aladds: yeah, i have it on my w810. but if you have a brown phone, it must be cid36. if you end up getting a new one;flash a red erom using sefp :)	17:28
derf	Some day they will make batteries that last longer than a year.	17:28
aladds	qwerty12_N800: CID49 :(	17:28
aladds	it's Ex-Vodafone	17:28
aladds	:P	17:28
RST38h	derf: and run on the souls of dead hamsters	17:29
aladds	(they gave me an unlock code after a year)	17:29
derf	I'm okay with that. They're not using them anymore.	17:29
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RST38h	whom? the hamsters? and what did "they" use them for before?	17:29
aladds	Stskeeps: i notice it's installing iceweasel, do you really think it'll run? :P	17:29
Stskeeps	aladds: hey, why not	17:29
Stskeeps	:P	17:29
aladds	lol true	17:29
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Stskeeps	aladds: think it's just a silly dependancy in lxde..	17:30
aladds	ah	17:30
Stskeeps	midori is prolly a better choice	17:30
qwerty12_N800	aladds: ouch, a brown cid49. dunno if the mod to use sefp works well with erom flashing. heh, i bought a service cable with my 810, got unlock codes for me and my sisters k750 there and then :p	17:30
aladds	heh	17:30
johnx	yes, midori is a much better choice, especially with 64MB RAM	17:30
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Stskeeps	is midori better than microb? :P	17:32
johnx	hmmm	17:32
johnx	that's a loaded question	17:32
johnx	it's better at google maps for sure	17:32
RST38h	Sts: no.	17:32
johnx	it's faster in a lot of cases and slower in a couple	17:32
johnx	but it's not as finger friendly	17:32
RST38h	Less stable	17:32
johnx	RST38h, debatable	17:33
aladds	what about dillo?	17:33
aladds	might be crap at rendering many sites	17:33
johnx	dillo is kind of useless a lot of the time	17:33
aladds	but it's really fast	17:33
RST38h	johnx: well, it crashes =)	17:33
johnx	RST38h, well so does microb	17:33
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johnx	RST38h, so it depends on which one doesn't crash on the sites I use	17:33
RST38h	johnx: Much less often. BTW, I have traced that browserd hangup bug down	17:33
johnx	RST38h, gettimeofday() ?	17:34
RST38h	johnx: Yep	17:34
Stskeeps	eh. :P	17:34
RST38h	It does look like this may come from flash applets (i.e. youtube player)	17:34
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RST38h	But, shit, the "programmer" who decided to time his code by calling gettimeofday() in a tight loop has to be fired at the spot	17:35
johnx	oh, here's why midori wins for me: being able to set the font size without doing seven kinds of arcane ... stuff	17:35
RST38h	Ah	17:36
* GeneralAntilles doesn't get the obsession with the 770's hard cover.		17:36
RST38h	Never had a 770 but hard voer sounds useful	17:36
johnx	GeneralAntilles, different use cases	17:37
RST38h	810 is so easily scratchable...	17:37
sp3000	...if you keep sandpaper in your pockets	17:37
GeneralAntilles	^	17:37
GeneralAntilles	I used my N800 exactly the same as I used my 770.	17:37
* aladds keeps sandpaper in his pockets, doesn't everyone? :P		17:37
RST38h	sp3000: miraculously bread crumbs do the job	17:37
johnx	even small rocks and shards of metal are a problem :(	17:37
GeneralAntilles	i.e., it goes with me practically everywhere.	17:37
johnx	RST38h, O_o what kind of bread do you eat?	17:37
GeneralAntilles	You know what's in better shape after a little over a year of use?	17:37
GeneralAntilles	The N800.	17:37
sp3000	RST38h: mmm, breadcrumbs are great for clogging up keyboards	17:37
GeneralAntilles	Why? Screen protector.	17:38
GeneralAntilles	Not the stupid hardcover, a $12 screen protector.	17:38
sp3000	I seem to have avoided getting bread in my pockets though ;)	17:38
RST38h	looks like the metal casing of N810 is covered with something	17:38
RST38h	this stuff is really easy to scratch	17:38
johnx	...if you make your bread from stone dust instead of flour...	17:38
GeneralAntilles	Somebody needs to beat up the people making me move articles they decided to stupidly name in camelCase.	17:39
sp3000	using millstone - ur doin it wrong	17:39
* Stskeeps loves his screen protector as well		17:39
Stskeeps	(not the nokia one)	17:39
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RST38h	hey even a touch with the stylus scratches 810 front panel	17:44
aladds	Stskeeps: setting up :)	17:44
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Stskeeps	aladds: woo :P	17:45
aladds	lol	17:45
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aladds	sooooo sloooow :P	17:45
Stskeeps	aladds: have you had it keel over yet like it did with our initial attempt?	17:45
Stskeeps	with killing apt-get with signal 11	17:46
aladds	not yet	17:46
Stskeeps	k	17:46
aladds	but there's still time :p	17:46
* aladds wonders why he sees this message: Updating OpenOffice.org's dictionary list... done.		17:46
aladds	:S	17:46
Stskeeps	hehe.. stupid package dependancies	17:47
aladds	i hope it hasn't installed oo.org	17:47
aladds	:P	17:47
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Blooper	Oh hi, I'm a bot :)	17:51
* aladds has cold feet		17:51
aladds	i think i'm going to get some socks	17:51
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aladds	it's almost done	17:57
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aladds	Stskeeps: done, reboot?	18:01
aladds	rebooted	18:04
aladds	WE HAVE X :D	18:04
Stskeeps	aladds: did dpkg --purge x-session?	18:04
aladds	i did	18:04
Stskeeps	k	18:04
Stskeeps	is it booting? :P	18:04
aladds	it is	18:04
aladds	:D	18:04
aladds	picture time methinks	18:04
Stskeeps	feel free to show photo :P	18:04
Stskeeps	hehe	18:04
johnx	woo!	18:05
Stskeeps	does touchscreen work?	18:05
aladds	yes	18:05
aladds	:D	18:05
johnx	770 owners, welcome to the ... uhm...present!	18:05
* Stskeeps celebrates with a beer		18:05
johnx	congrats, aladds and Stskeeps :D	18:06
aladds	hah, it's even picture number 700 on my camera	18:07
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aladds	http://flickr.com/photos/10211714@N03/2875802734/	18:09
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Stskeeps	aladds: how is performance?	18:09
aladds	good	18:09
johnx	hawt!	18:09
aladds	but ideweasel isn't doing much	18:09
johnx	ahaha	18:09
Stskeeps	(tap and hold on taskbar and remove cpu measurement)	18:09
aladds	iceweasel	18:09
aladds	that's useful actually	18:10
Stskeeps	yeah, but takes cpu like a bitch :P	18:10
johnx	actually, watch cpu applet to see if iceweasel is actually launching	18:10
Stskeeps	ah	18:10
aladds	it's telling me that iceweasel is using up all the cpu and doing nothing	18:10
Stskeeps	try apt-get install midori (johnx?)	18:10
johnx	it'll come up in a couple minutes	18:10
johnx	yes, install midori	18:10
johnx	do you have some swap turned on?	18:10
Stskeeps	ah, it's only in sid	18:11
aladds	i have swap yes	18:11
aladds	i think so anyway	18:11
aladds	:P	18:11
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aladds	ok i do now	18:12
aladds	:P	18:12
Stskeeps	it ran without swap? :P	18:12
aladds	yeah...	18:12
johnx	iceweasel might actually run eventually in that case :)	18:12
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Stskeeps	neat	18:12
Stskeeps	:P	18:12
aladds	:)	18:12
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Stskeeps	aladds: obligatory Deblet on 770 post and Show your screenshots i think ;)	18:13
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aladds	haha of course	18:13
Stskeeps	aladds: if we are getting really fancy.. replicate my "booting deblet" video, apt-get install deblet-omap-fb-splash, dpkg --remove omap-fb-console	18:13
Stskeeps	and --purge omap-fb-console	18:13
treestone	/whois Stskeeps	18:14
Stskeeps	treestone: insane person	18:14
Stskeeps	:P	18:14
treestone	:)	18:14
aladds	E: Couldn't find package midori	18:14
aladds	:(	18:14
Stskeeps	aladds: yeah, it's in sid	18:14
aladds	oh	18:14
treestone	Interesting stuff there	18:14
Stskeeps	so you need to edit your sources.list	18:14
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Stskeeps	treestone: no tablet left behind, now with 770 :>	18:15
treestone	This deblet story, you're running a Debian alternative installation?	18:15
Stskeeps	treestone: http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet	18:16
johnx	custom installer that gets you vanilla debian plus a couple tablet specific packages to add functionality	18:16
johnx	Stskeeps, I'm beating matchbox-keyboard into place, as we speak :)	18:16
treestone	Nice. I used to hang out mostly in #debian earlier. Debian person.	18:16
Stskeeps	treestone: still a lot to go regarding power consumption and stripdown, but it works	18:16
aladds	Stskeeps: so apt-get install deblet-omap-fb-splash first?	18:17
Stskeeps	aladds: yes	18:17
* treestone is reading up		18:17
Stskeeps	it probably removes omap-fb-console by itself, but needs purge	18:17
aladds	then do remove && purge?	18:17
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Stskeeps	heh, xchat? ;P	18:22
aladds	ircii	18:22
Stskeeps	ah	18:22
aladds	which i'm still trying to figure out :P	18:22
Stskeeps	irssi is prolly more useful	18:22
Stskeeps	:P	18:22
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aladds	yes	18:23
aladds	:P	18:23
aladds	lol	18:23
aladds	anyway	18:23
aladds	splashscreen thing	18:23
aladds	is there any way to make the keyboard smaller?	18:24
Stskeeps	matchbox?	18:24
Stskeeps	we're working on it :P	18:24
aladds	mm	18:24
Stskeeps	or johnx may know better layouts	18:24
aladds	cool cool	18:24
johnx	I know a bigger layout that I prefer :)	18:24
aladds	hah	18:24
aladds	but it takes up half the screen :P	18:24
johnx	uhm, yes	18:25
aladds	i do like how i can drag it out of the way though	18:25
Stskeeps	aladds: we've done work to make hildon input method work .. but so far there's problems with beating it into submission with other wms	18:25
aladds	ah	18:26
Stskeeps	how's the install coming?	18:27
aladds	purging	18:27
aladds	purged	18:27
aladds	reboot time	18:28
Stskeeps	reboot yeah	18:28
Stskeeps	(tell me if it shows a splash screen :P)	18:28
aladds	it does	18:28
Stskeeps	woo	18:28
Stskeeps	video time ;) if it finishes booting up :>	18:29
aladds	i just filmed that	18:30
Stskeeps	hehe, okay	18:30
aladds	first boot with splash :)	18:30
Stskeeps	it's going to take some time to make the packages do this automatically, probably need to make some more support packages for 770	18:31
Stskeeps	and the whole installer thing	18:31
johnx	I'll give h-i-m a swing right now since I'm having no luck making matchbox-keyboard report it's real location	18:32
aladds	ah	18:33
aladds	what happened to xkbd?	18:33
aladds	i know it's been abandoned	18:33
aladds	but it was pretty good when i used it	18:33
aladds	also, has anyone tried xstroke on deblet?	18:34
johnx	you can be the first :)	18:34
aladds	:D	18:34
johnx	welcome to the frontier :)	18:34
aladds	woo!	18:34
aladds	oo	18:36
aladds	can we use ipk packages from handhelds.org?	18:36
aladds	because they're already compiled for arm	18:36
* aladds is thinking perhaps alien could convert then to debs?		18:37
johnx	probably not	18:37
johnx	hmm...it depends on how optimized their are I guess	18:37
aladds	isn't familiar debian based anyway?	18:37
johnx	so is maemo	18:38
aladds	exactly	18:38
johnx	both started from debian a long time ago	18:38
aladds	so ipk probably isn't much different from deb	18:38
johnx	I mean a monkey is basically a human, so it makes sense to have a gorilla for a CEO	18:38
aladds	:P	18:38
aladds	that's been done	18:38
aladds	how else would any company ship vista?	18:38
johnx	but the way things are linked, what CPU they're optimized for, what the packages are named, can all be problems	18:39
johnx	because they know they can ship anything and people will still buy it?	18:39
aladds	hmm perhaps	18:39
aladds	people are trying not to though	18:40
johnx	so try it	18:40
johnx	and tell us how it works :P	18:40
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aladds	lol ok	18:40
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aladds	or i could just compile it	18:40
aladds	the sources aren't very big	18:40
johnx	that would be best I think :)	18:40
johnx	you could also just grab the binary from the ipk and run it without installing it	18:41
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BugBlue	mmm isn't therer a flasher for mac os X intel?	18:43
aladds	BugBlue: nope	18:43
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aladds	BugBlue: there is a GUI flasher though	18:43
aladds	called 770Flasher.app	18:44
aladds	uses a ppc binary though	18:44
BugBlue	ah yeah oke	18:44
BugBlue	can I use it to flash the N810?	18:44
aladds	dunno	18:45
aladds	it uses the flasher-2.0	18:45
aladds	dillo is crazy fast	18:45
GeneralAntilles	~flashing	18:45
infobot	rumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	18:45
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aladds	even though its rendering is AWFUL :P	18:45
aladds	and it wont stay logged into ITT :(	18:47
aladds	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRRF-fBrGEM	18:49
aladds	in the video it shuts down, then boots up	18:49
aladds	to X11 :D	18:49
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johnx	w00! h-i-m sets its WM_CLASS	18:54
johnx	1 point for Nokia	18:54
aladds	easiest way to take a screenshot?	18:54
johnx	xwd -root -out foo.xwd	18:54
aladds	cat /dev/fb0 > flle gives what i assume is a raw image?	18:54
aladds	oh cool	18:55
aladds	didn't like that	18:55
aladds	does it have to be run within x11?	18:55
Stskeeps	install imagemagick instead	18:55
Stskeeps	and import -window root	18:56
Stskeeps	and import -window root filename.png or something	18:56
aladds	ok	18:56
qwerty12	aladds: I use fbgrab when taking screenshots using framebuffer (worked for me to take a screenshot of maemo booting)	18:56
aladds	oh ok	18:56
johnx	yeah xwd is for inside x11	18:56
ssvb	Stskeeps: what about sound on 770 in deblet, does it use aic23 codec and alsa?	18:57
ssvb	I'm just interested in using sound and DSP without proprietary binary blobs, never tried deblet myself	19:02
aladds	yeah there isn't any sound atm	19:03
mavhc	if you want a decent fast browser without javascript try netsurf	19:03
johnx	Stskeeps, did you already try to use openbox's window matching against h-i-m?	19:03
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aladds	netsurf!	19:04
* aladds has used netsurf on RISC OS :D		19:04
mavhc	see #netsurf also	19:04
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mavhc	aladds: me too	19:05
Stskeeps	johnx: nop	19:05
* aladds has a Risc PC 700 w/StrongARM		19:05
Stskeeps	ssvb: it's not possible to use without properitary binary blobs.. i think, unless someone implements them	19:05
Stskeeps	we work around it with building .deb packages that are availiable in a local repo	19:05
Stskeeps	local as in on tablet	19:05
Stskeeps	we don't distribute them	19:05
Stskeeps	just give the source packages to build them on tablet and use as part of your ownership of your device	19:06
Stskeeps	it's not the best but i don't want to sacrifice usability over arguing legally over something that's basically a copy on the device just like a clone-to-SD	19:06
ssvb	Stskeeps: I'm experimenting with enabling aic23 alsa driver in the kernel at the moment, I suspect that it might work quite fine, at least I get some sounds from it	19:07
Stskeeps	ssvb: i'm always open for kernel module deb packages	19:08
johnx	ssvb, that would be awesome for many reasons	19:08
Stskeeps	and contributions	19:08
ssvb	does deblet on N8x0 use nokia alsa dsp plugin, or it uses alsa driver in the kernel?	19:08
johnx	alsa dsp plugin	19:09
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ssvb	johnx: ok, I see, I'm mostly continuing what was discussed here: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2006-June/022231.html	19:14
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Stskeeps	ssvb: goal is ofcourse a completely OSS system, but i'd rather go from properitary pieces to OSS stuff, than start with OSS stuff and never reach level of properitary :P	19:15
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ssvb	it is possible to output sound from ARM side, unfortunately this does not seem to work fine with DSP codecs also trying to output sounds	19:15
ssvb	so this requires to scrap all the nokia codecs and start developing new ones	19:15
Robot101	mmm.... debian on a tablet... :)	19:16
johnx	Robot101, terrifying, isn't it?	19:16
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Robot101	did the ubuntu hildon debs make it into debian?	19:16
johnx	there's a semi-connected project for debian	19:17
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johnx	but yes, the base hildon libs are in	19:17
Robot101	the status area in recent hildons is a real notification area, so network mangler and battery monitor stuff should just work there too	19:17
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qwerty12	lol @ network mangler. so true...	19:17
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johnx	yup, I used hildon-desktop in debian a while ago...but without most of the plugins it's pretty bare	19:18
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Robot101	oh nice, hildon-desktop is there, and dates and tasks versions	19:19
Stskeeps	aladds: any luck with video?	19:19
johnx	the package for modest is waiting to be built	19:19
aladds	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRRF-fBrGEM	19:25
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Stskeeps	woo	19:26
aladds	what would i do with an Imakefile?	19:27
aladds	rather than a normal makefile	19:27
Stskeeps	no clue, ipkg specific thing?	19:27
johnx	xmkmf -a	19:27
johnx	IIRC	19:27
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aladds	uh, more packages to install	19:28
* Fatal falls off chair.		19:28
Fatal	Imakefiles, haven't seen those in ages :)	19:28
aladds	:P	19:29
johnx	me neither	19:29
johnx	that took a real raid on long term memory	19:29
Stskeeps	aladds: think you should post a post in Nokia 770 forum to attract some people :)	19:29
Stskeeps	aladds: btw did you do dpkg-reconfigure dash?	19:30
aladds	i did yeah	19:30
Stskeeps	k	19:30
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* aladds notices that the backlight turns off when he closes the lid )		19:36
aladds	:-)	19:36
Stskeeps	yeah, we use dsme so	19:36
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Italodance	guys	19:38
Italodance	i need u	19:38
Italodance	where can i find application catalogue in xterm?	19:38
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johnx	Stskeeps, using devilspie now. h-i-m shows up the right size and place now	19:38
aladds	apt-cache search <name>	19:39
Italodance	infact where is it>?	19:39
Stskeeps	johnx: screenshot!	19:39
aladds	apt-get install <name>	19:39
aladds	as root	19:39
Italodance	hi johnx	19:42
Italodance	please can help me??	19:42
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johnx	Italodance, what are you trying to do?	19:43
Italodance	wait i will show u a screenshot	19:43
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johnx	Stskeeps, http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/today-screenie.png	19:44
johnx	Stskeeps, note that I had to resize the window manually :/	19:45
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Stskeeps	johnx: a good step in the right direction atleast	19:48
aladds	johnx: that looks really neat	19:48
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Stskeeps	what WM is it?	19:48
johnx	openbox	19:48
Stskeeps	good	19:48
johnx	yeah	19:48
Italodance	http://i36.tinypic.com/2sbn2oy.png	19:48
Italodance	johnx how can i delete it?	19:48
Stskeeps	is that hildon-icons?	19:49
Italodance	it can't delete	19:49
Stskeeps	(i dont have those icons)	19:49
johnx	Stskeeps, yup.	19:49
johnx	Italodance, hmmm	19:49
Italodance	is possible other way without application catalogue?	19:50
Stskeeps	johnx: define resize manually though?	19:50
johnx	Italodance, do you know how to edit text files in xterm?	19:50
johnx	Stskeeps, I needed to resize leafpad so it doesn't overlap (underlap?) the keyboard	19:51
Italodance	johnx no?	19:51
johnx	Italodance, then there is no way for you to fix it. Just ignore it.	19:51
Italodance	johnx ok explain please	19:51
Stskeeps	johnx: ah, maybe a on top thing would be useful	19:51
Stskeeps	but yeah	19:52
Stskeeps	there's a WORKAREA setting you can set i think	19:52
johnx	Italodance, if it's not a problem, don't worry about it	19:52
Italodance	johnx i think my maemo repo and extra devel repo don't work fot that!	19:53
johnx	Italodance, alright then. Do you have root access?	19:53
Italodance	root yes	19:53
Italodance	type root in xterm and?	19:54
johnx	yes	19:54
johnx	do you have nano installed?	19:54
Italodance	no wait	19:55
Italodance	where can i find it?	19:55
johnx	one sec	19:55
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johnx	on the bottom of this page: http://nitapps.com/	19:56
Italodance	yes 1 sec	19:57
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johnx	Stskeeps, hmm?, WORKAREA setting?	19:59
RST38h	why isn't all this stuff (nitapps) in extras anyway?	19:59
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Stskeeps	johnx: there's a way to tell the WM to minimize the work area of active windows, for example like taskbars do it	20:00
Stskeeps	http://www.sweb.cz/tripie/utils/wmctrl/ maybe useful	20:00
johnx	right, the WM shouldn't let windows with a certain type set (like dock) be overlapped	20:01
Stskeeps	we can always patch h-i-m if needed	20:01
Italodance	johnx yes ready	20:01
johnx	Italodance, nano /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list	20:02
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Italodance	johnx tnx 1000000	20:04
johnx	Italodance, sure. no problem :)	20:04
johnx	tell me if it works :D	20:04
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Italodance	johnx i found it and want to delete it but the page can't save why?	20:09
Italodance	i used emelfm2	20:09
johnx	you need to be root to save over that file	20:10
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Italodance	use root in xterm?	20:11
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johnx	yeah, like I told you	20:11
johnx	root in xterm	20:11
Italodance	and?	20:11
thux	debian seems to boot from sd-card, first try didn't work with initfs but flasher did set root device right	20:11
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johnx	then nano /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list	20:12
johnx	then edit the file	20:12
johnx	then save with ctrl-x	20:12
aladds	xstroke is complaning about missing files in /usr/include/X11	20:12
aladds	but i installed xserver-xorg-dev	20:12
aladds	well	20:13
aladds	the xstrike Imakefile	20:13
johnx	aladds, maybe the files are someplace else?	20:13
aladds	hmm	20:13
johnx	use dpkg -S filename to see if they've moved	20:13
Stskeeps	build from source http://davesource.com/Projects/xstroke/?	20:13
johnx	xstroke is pretty old	20:13
aladds	i'm using the source from handhelds.org	20:14
Stskeeps	http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=69476	20:14
Stskeeps	has .deb package	20:14
aladds	it's a bit newer and support full-screen writing	20:14
Stskeeps	(tar.bz2)	20:14
Stskeeps	ok	20:14
aladds	but the deb will be i386	20:14
Stskeeps	nah, it's the source package	20:15
aladds	actually i have 0.5.12	20:15
aladds	oh	20:15
aladds	a source deb?	20:15
Italodance	johnx i typed this line in root: nano /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list but said error opening terminal: xterm.	20:15
Stskeeps	arh, requires login to dl attachments	20:15
Stskeeps	silly ubuntu	20:15
aladds	:(	20:15
Stskeeps	packages.debian.org for searching for include files	20:16
Stskeeps	(bottom form)	20:16
aladds	i'll make an ubuntu account	20:16
aladds	won't take long	20:16
johnx	Italodance, sorry. I don't know :(	20:17
aladds	hmm	20:18
aladds	the package name is xstroke_0.6.cvs20040921-2_i386.deb	20:18
Italodance	i installed nano but maybe need ncurses-base_5.4-3.osso1_all.deb ?	20:18
johnx	Italodance, ah, yes. please install that too.	20:18
johnx	I thought you installed it	20:19
Italodance	ok	20:19
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Italodance	johnx i am there!	20:25
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Italodance	find delete and save it yes?	20:25
Italodance	manually?	20:25
johnx	yes, delete the line	20:25
johnx	then save the file	20:25
johnx	it should be at the bottom	20:25
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Italodance	how can i save?	20:32
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johnx	Italodance, hit ctrl on the keyboard, then hit x	20:34
Italodance	then?	20:38
Italodance	it want y or no	20:38
johnx	yes	20:38
Italodance	when i click on ctrl and	20:38
Italodance	y	20:39
Italodance	the page can't close	20:39
Italodance	it's normal?	20:39
johnx	what does it say?	20:40
Italodance	after ctrl and x:	20:40
johnx	after ctrl and x, hit y	20:41
johnx	then enter	20:41
Italodance	save modified buffer (answering "No" will destroy changes)	20:41
Italodance	Y YES	20:41
Italodance	N NO	20:41
johnx	hit "y"	20:41
Italodance	^C Cancel	20:41
Italodance	yes i hit it by ctrl but page is still on and without close	20:42
johnx	hit enter	20:42
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Italodance	johnx enter?	20:51
* Stslaptop wonders if it's all the uni students going back to the uni town today since the train is absolutely full		20:51
Italodance	first ctrl and x	20:51
Italodance	second ctrl and y	20:51
Italodance	but no change	20:51
Italodance	?	20:51
johnx	ctrl x	20:51
johnx	y	20:51
johnx	enter	20:51
Italodance	no changed	20:55
Italodance	one more time	20:55
Stslaptop	ctrl-q? :P	20:55
Italodance	ctrl and hit x	20:55
johnx	correct	20:56
Stslaptop	(unsuspend term)	20:56
Italodance	then ask me: save modified buffer (answering "No" will destroy changes)	20:56
Italodance	Y YES	20:56
Italodance	N NO	20:56
Italodance	again	20:56
Italodance	ctrl	20:56
johnx	no	20:56
johnx	not control	20:56
Italodance	and enter y	20:56
johnx	just hit y	20:56
Italodance	but no changed	20:56
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Stslaptop	johnx: so there's a fair possibility we can make h-i-m work for a nit-env-lxde (for gtk and maybe qt) apps?	20:58
johnx	it works, it's just not ideal	20:58
Stslaptop	it's basically you want to make the otherwise windows respect the newly sized work area?	20:58
johnx	its window type gets set to dock after the window is mapped, so I think openbox is ignoring it	20:59
Stslaptop	ah	20:59
Stslaptop	that's probably hackable	20:59
Stslaptop	the code that does it is pretty simple	20:59
johnx	I don't tihnk it has provisions for windows chaning types, which is the case when I use devilspie on it	20:59
johnx	yeah, if it became a dock from the beginning I would imagine it would work	21:00
johnx	probably the same with matchbox-keyboard	21:01
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Stslaptop	i'll take a look at it later, this sideways driving in train is making me feel wobbly :/	21:02
Stslaptop	bbl	21:02
johnx	alright, I'm going to sleep	21:02
johnx	Italodance, good luck	21:02
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Italodance	johnx	21:07
Italodance	no :(	21:07
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Italodance	my n800 hasn't a keyboard	21:08
Italodance	if i press enter then can see large keyboard	21:08
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Italodance	:")	21:08
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aladds	how do you make a deb?	22:40
aladds	i've got ./debian-binary ./data.tar.gz and ./control.tar.gz	22:41
aladds	apparently i need to use ar	22:41
aladds	but i don't know the syntax	22:41
inz	You normally make a deb with dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot ;)	22:41
aladds	well	22:41
aladds	i have an ipkg	22:41
aladds	which apparently can be converted from debs	22:42
aladds	and i can find loads of places detailing that	22:42
aladds	but the other way? not so many	22:42
inz	I would guess the ar syntax is something like ar q foo.deb file1 file2 file3	22:43
aladds	aha!	22:43
aladds	i was trying to use m	22:43
aladds	:P	22:44
crashanddie_	:P	22:44
aladds	ugh	22:44
inz	aladds, m is move	22:44
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aladds	well i thought "move into archive...	22:44
aladds	"	22:44
aladds	:P	22:44
inz	aladds, it's move _in_ an archive	22:44
aladds	it's now complaining that arm isn't the same as armel	22:44
inz	And it's right	22:45
aladds	:(	22:45
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aladds	so now i need to compile it for armel	22:49
aladds	does anyone have cross-compile set up?	22:49
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aladds	ah no wait a min	22:51
aladds	familiar (from where i got this package) is little endian	22:51
aladds	so surely, arm packages which are little endian should work on deblet?	22:51
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Robot101	aladds: arm and armel have different calling conventions, thats why they're different	23:01
Robot101	it's the arm new ABI, and also a new syscall convention too I think	23:01
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aladds	ah	23:02
aladds	sham	23:02
aladds	shame*	23:02
aladds	back to trying to compile it then	23:03
aladds	will xserver-xorg-dev install all the xlib headers?	23:03
Robot101	unless the familiar binary is for "armel" rather than "arm"	23:03
Robot101	(assuming they follow the debian naming, which I think they did)	23:04
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crashanddie	~nick TaskBot	23:04
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crashanddie	~join #grouptask	23:04
TaskBot	crashanddie: Okay	23:04
crashanddie	~part	23:04
infobot	/part	23:04
crashanddie	~part #maemo	23:04
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aladds	has xlibs-dev been replaced?	23:10
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aladds	and if so, what by?	23:10
crashanddie	~help	23:11
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blafasel	crashanddie: It left. ;)	23:11
crashanddie	blafasel, no it didn't, I wanted to query infobot	23:12
crashanddie	~lart blafasel	23:12
* infobot raises middle finger to blafasel		23:12
crashanddie	~lart infobot	23:12
* infobot grabs a large, mis-shapened log, with squirrels, and beats crashanddie until only the nuts remain ... which the squirrels run off with		23:12
crashanddie	blafasel, I'm just demoing the bots to a friend	23:13
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blafasel	I'm not offended easily ;)	23:13
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GAN800	~murder crashanddie	23:22
* infobot shoots crashanddie in his sleep		23:22
GAN800	~eat crashanddie	23:23
infobot	That's too disgusting.	23:23
GAN800	~eat crashanddie	23:23
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Stskeeps	aladds: i'll have a dedicated deblet qemu-armel at some point	23:28
aladds	cool	23:28
Stskeeps	http://newpeople.debian.org/~aurel32/qemu/armel/ is a good qemu image	23:28
aladds	i'm currently installing xorg-dev	23:28
aladds	:P	23:28
Stskeeps	may need to be apt-get dist-upgraded though	23:28
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lardman	evening all	23:29
GeneralAntilles	'lo, lardman.	23:32
lardman	hey GeneralAntilles, how's things?	23:32
lardman	did you see the presentation :)	23:32
* lardman ducks		23:32
GAN800	Nope	23:32
GAN800	Did anybody record it?	23:32
lardman	ah well, I have your wrath to look forward to then :)	23:32
GAN800	sjgasdy meantioned something about my expense on jaiku. . . .	23:33
lardman	well, you know, pick on the easy (not present) target, to deflect attention and all that ;)	23:33
* timeless returns home		23:34
aladds	Stskeeps: xstroke is looking for freetype headers, any idea which package might give me those? neither freetype or freetype-dev seem available	23:35
GAN800	No presentation, just a 30 minute roast of Ryan? ;)	23:35
Stskeeps	aladds: libfreetype-dev?:P	23:35
aladds	oh	23:35
aladds	nope :(	23:35
Stskeeps	libfreetype6-dev	23:35
lardman	GAN800: not far off, all sorts of troubles with the presentation equipment, about 1/2 the presentations were ad-libed for the first few minutes while those were sorted	23:35
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aladds	hm	23:36
aladds	apparently it'a installed	23:36
aquatix	always troubles with presentation equipment	23:36
* aquatix can only be amused about the amount of troubles even geeks have with beamers and such :)		23:36
lardman	yeah, for next time we should try to organise some laptops to be kept in the rooms and always working, etc.	23:36
aquatix	reminds me to check whether vga works correctly on my laptop ;)	23:36
lardman	aquatix: true, 200-odd technical people and still troubles! :)	23:37
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aladds	anyone know which package might give me the 'bold' command	23:39
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aladds	?	23:39
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aladds	nevermind	23:41
lardman	dpkg -S "bold"	23:42
* lardman had to Google to remember		23:42
aladds	yeah got it	23:43
aladds	thanks though	23:43
lardman	np	23:44
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lardman	where should I look to work out how the xserver interacts with the screen, whatever that might be?	23:45
lardman	and specifically to look at how updates which are not full screen are handled	23:45
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GAN800	vga adaptor time, eh?	23:47
lardman	yeah, thought I'd take a look at least	23:47
lardman	From talking to some Nokians, they thought the USB otg host was slow anyway	23:48
lardman	How's your one working?	23:48
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GAN800	it works	23:48
GAN800	but slowly	23:48
GAN800	Interesting that the usb host is slow	23:49
lardman	has anyone benchmarked the usb bandwidth at all?	23:49
GAN800	Not that I've seen.	23:49
GAN800	Might bug -developers about it.	23:49
lardman	yeah, thought I'd try some tests first though just to see	23:49
lardman	have seen a usb2vga adaptor for £35, which is not bad and I'd get that even before working out if the usb thing is a show stopper	23:50
lardman	just need to find out the chipset so that it will at least work	23:50
GAN800	Startech	23:51
GAN800	usb2vga2	23:51
GAN800	Anything sis based	23:51
lardman	no, this is allegedly and oem product for scan.co.uk	23:51
lardman	but I presume it must use one of the two chipsets	23:51
lardman	but as they say with presumption being the mother of all, somethingorothers	23:52
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GAN800	I'd just get the startech and not have the worry of it being wrong.	23:52
lardman	expensive though ~£60	23:53
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lardman	and I hope the next device has built-in tv output	23:53
GAN800	Wow, was only $60	23:53
lardman	yeah well we pay the same in £ as you do in $	23:54
GAN800	It really ought to	23:54
lardman	:S	23:54
GAN800	OMAP3 can handle it.	23:54
GAN800	640x480 framebuffer just for TV	23:54
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