IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-09-16

RST38hGeneral: Check it out again
RST38hDevelopment has to go somewhere though00:04
RST38hI dropped all the rest (from the small menu), but dunno where to put the development00:04
RST38hOh, wait, do you mean the LARGE title???00:05
GeneralAntillesI don't think the development stuff needs to be on the front page.00:06
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RST38hGeneral: If you mean the top menu item, I would rather have it stay (but hide ALL the development stuff under it)00:07
RST38hGeneral: If you mean large section names - do not worry about them, each section will go to the separate page at the end. They are on the same page for my convinience designing them only00:08
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GeneralAntillesNo, all the junk below downloads00:08
GeneralAntillesWiki and Bugzilla should be in the top-level navbar00:08
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RST38hGeneral: I would push them under development though00:09
RST38hthey are project names by themselves00:09
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RST38hon the other hand...00:18
RST38hGeneral: Bugzilla added. No idea how to call Wiki in plain non-geek english though00:20
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RST38h8 ton tank of liquid oxygen overturned tonight. Too bad there are no photos =(00:21
GeneralAntillesEverybody knows what a wiki is.00:22
RST38hnot really :)00:22
GeneralAntillesYes they do00:22
RST38hmy wife does not00:22
GeneralAntillesWikipedia is the next best thing to Google as far as generic names00:22
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RST38hand she is a programmer00:22
RST38hwhy not add it under documentation? any arguments against it?00:23
GeneralAntillesThe wiki is a huge resource00:23
GeneralAntillesProbably the biggest for the site00:23
GeneralAntillesIt shouldn't be buried00:23
RST38hHow about using the word Encyclopedia?00:23
RST38hhmmm...I think it is wrong but will add it for now00:23
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RST38hACTUALLY, General, we still do not have Documentation entry! You are in luck00:24
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__t1where can I find the new maemo logo as vector file?00:30
housetiermoin __t1 :)00:31
__t1hi housie00:31
__t1I am currently setting up
housetierYäy more work! ;o00:32
housetieryes the logo IS missing00:32
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RST38hGeneral: Community subpage added. I will go sleep. Will look at creating right set of CSS styles tomorrow, then you will have to take over and give this crap to whoever is responsible00:43
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Stskeepsanyone with a 770 who can tell me what dpkg -l | grep xserver tells them? (and tell me their OS release)00:50
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* melmoth just made his first audio gps navigation for bicycle test...01:10
* melmoth got lost01:10
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guentherjott: pong ;)01:19
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guentherSorry, I was busy mud-wrestling with bugzilla and the database. Forgot to idle here. Again...01:19
jottguenther: hey, no problem.01:21
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guentherWhat bot exactly?01:22
jottguenther: so is there a way to get all notifications via bugmail? (not sure which version supports this fully, the script claims that it needs 2.23 upwards)01:22
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guentherHow do other bots handle this?01:22
guentherhmm, wait...01:23
guentherFirst of all: This is meant as a life notification whenever a bug changes, right?01:23
jottguenther: yes, basically.01:23
guentherYou sure you can handle the load interrupting interesting discussions? ;)01:24
jottthat's supposed to go to #maemo-bugs :)01:24
guentherah :)01:24
guentherSending email should not be much of a problem.01:24
guentherAlthough I don't know of a definite way OTOH, there are multiple solutions.01:25
guentherThat is a *dedicated* email account, right?01:25
jottwell afaiu bugmail handles most stuff via headers.01:25
guentherWatching some "master user" would be one.01:25
guentherIf everything else fails, I could likely even hack it into the email tamplate.01:26
guentherI know we've done that before... ;)01:26
* guenther sighs01:26
guentherBoy do I know...01:26
guentherNow, the downside is *drumroll* we're running 2.22.odd01:27
jotti think it's supposed to go under newchangedmail01:27
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jottwell 2.22 seems close enough i guess.01:27
guentherYou said 2.23+?01:27
guentherWhat for?01:27
jottin contrast to 2.20 :)01:28
jottand i guess we can fix things on either side.01:28
guentherWell, there may have been changes...01:28
guentherYes, maybe.01:28
jottnewchangedmail seems to be one of the magic keywords :)01:28
guentherIf it is some issue with the email.01:28
guentherBut maybe its just about... exactly, that. ;)01:28
guentherIf it's just something to easily enable the mail sending, we could hack around it.01:29
guentherAny pointer to the docs you're referring to?01:29
jottwell it seems the normal mails just get X-Bugzilla-Reason in the header01:29
jottgrep for newchangedmail :)01:30
jottit fills the relevant header fields.01:30
jott(X-Bugzilla-Product the first check in the parser script :)01:31
guentherget me docs :)01:31
guentherWhat do you need exactly?01:31
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guenthernewchangedmail is the template01:31
guentherSo which headers do you need?01:32
jottguenther: yeah need to look it up too. hoped you where deeper into it ;)01:32
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guentherAnyway, I need food. You're not gonna leave soon, right? ;)01:32
jottsee at the bottom of the file01:33
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jottas i said, i think when sending it with newchangedmail it seems to be ok. so we need to find a way to send just this mail :)01:33
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dmsupermanDoes anybody know of any calendar apps for maemo that A: aren't buggy (gpe-calendar falls under the buggy category), and B: can sync with google calendar?01:40
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sneakretdmsuperman: That'd be nice.01:46
sneakretI've been looking for the same thing. So far no luck.01:47
sneakretYeah. :(01:47
sneakretbut don't let that discourage you!01:47
dmsupermanmCalendar seems a bit promising the the google syncing appears to be broken, and it's still a bitch glitchy01:47
sneakretMaybe someone else will chime in with the answer to all our problems.01:47
sneakretbitch glitchy... funny think01:48
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sneakretMy situation is further complicated by the fact that I use google calendar through google apps for domains.01:48
dmsupermanI use gnome-do on my ubuntu desktop, which has a google calendar plugin01:49
dmsupermanI also have evolution feeding me alerts on my desktop01:49
dmsupermanAll I need now is a way to get my n800 into the mix01:49
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sneakretWrite an ical to crontab converter. :)01:50
sneakretdmsuperman: I assume google calendar brings MicroB to its knees on your n800 too. :)01:51
sneakretgoogle calendar isn't friendly to small screens, either.01:51
dmsupermanIt's not too bad01:53
dmsupermanBut I need something that works when I have no internet01:53
dmsupermanmCalendar, if all the glitches were fixed, would be absolutely perfect01:54
dmsupermanIt's designed to be worked with thumbs01:54
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dmsupermanAnd does the simplistic tasks of A: interacting with gCal, B: alerting me when I tell it to, and C: allowing me to schedule tasks01:54
dmsupermanThat's all I need01:54
sneakretYep. Sounds good to me!01:55
sneakretThis is probably the most requested app. :)01:55
sneakretWhat's wrong with mCalendar? ... and is there a bug database for it?01:58
dmsupermanNo clue about bug database01:58
dmsupermanI just know that google syncing is utterly broken01:58
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dmsupermanIt hardly worked, and the one time it did manage the times and alarms were broken01:59
dmsupermanOther than that, the app wins. Simplistic, yet powerful01:59
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sneakretIf you use it locally only, do the times and alarms work?02:00
sneakret(i.e. are the problems all centered around google calendar?)02:01
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sneakretInstalling mCalendar..02:01
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sneakretI need an excuse to debug something for maemo.02:02
sneakretI sure do get sick of maemo apps that don't properly specify whether fields should be initial caps.02:03
dmsupermanI just use a bluetooth keyboard02:04
dmsupermanSo I don't care :P02:04
dmsupermanAlso, yes it seemed to work locally02:04
dmsupermanHowever my test was a very limited one02:04
dmsupermanAs in: 15 minutes02:04
sneakretI use the n810 keyboard02:04
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sneakretSince I can't rely on the initial caps setting being correct, I tend to press shift when I don't need to (making it so I DO need to).02:06
sneakretI wonder if it's possible to just turn that off entirely.02:06
* guenther 'd interested in that, too02:08
sneakretIt should NEVER be enabled in a password field. Wow.02:09
sneakret(mCalendar has this problem.)02:09
sneakretIf you type punctuation in your password, the next character is capitalized.02:09
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sneakretHmm... surprisingly, I was able to sync using mCalendar.02:13
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sneakretand the times seem to be correct...02:16
AlystairSo I got bored with 2007HE and I'm reflashing the 770 to 2008HE.02:16
AlystairJust to see what I'm missing.02:16
sneakretdmsuperman: Do you have your time zones set correctly on google calendar and your n800?02:17
dmsupermansneakret: Yeah02:17
sneakretOK. Just checking.02:17
sneakretIs it plugged in? ;)02:17
sneakretI have a 770 with a broken screen. I don't suppose there's a cheap source of replacement screens.02:17
Alystairlike cracked or WSOD?02:18
sneakretI don't actually remember--it's been ages since I even looked at it. I'm pretty sure it's cracked.02:19
sneakretIt's in a box in my garage. :)02:19
Alystairhaha oh wow 2008HE is slow as hell to boot02:20
sneakretI've replaced screens on PDAs and cameras...02:20
Alystairoh wow this IS slow.02:23
sneakretStill booting? :)02:23
Alystairno, extending virtual mem to card02:24
sneakretThat's always pretty time consuming, isn't it?02:25
sneakretThat's been my experience.02:25
sneakretTime for me to head home. I'm glad I finally joined this channel.02:26
sneakretdmsuperman: My initial test of mCalendar was successful. The event times appear to be correct.02:27
sneakretI agree with your assessment of it, too. Nice and minimal.02:28
sneakretI'm sure I'll run into problems, at which time I'll get to improve it.02:28
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Alystairman maybe I should just buy up used iPod Touches instead03:15
AlystairI don't know where to go to learn about developing stuff for Maemo03:16
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mikkov_Alystair: here's info about developing for maemo
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Alystairok reverting to 2007, 2008 is too slow and buggy on the 77003:33
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robinkI seem to be unable to create swap, even though I have enough space on /media/mmc206:26
Jareduthatsn ot good06:26
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robinkJaredu: Any idea how to fix it?06:27
Jareduabsolutely no clue, i get my n810 tomorrow or wednesday via 2nd day air06:28
robinkJaredu: Cool.06:28
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robinkI could always create the swap manually.06:30
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robinkAnyone else had this problem?06:49
johnx_apparently swap can be pretty flakey sometimes06:50
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robinkjohnx_: Bummer.06:52
robinkWell, I'll just hope metalayer-crawler doesn't need /too/ much memory.06:52
johnx_it's been a lot better lately06:53
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robinkWell it's got more than 2000 OGGs to search through.06:58
robinkMakin' some swap.06:59
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tank-manhow come other programs like canola2 index the music so fast it seems07:13
robinktank-man: They use lightmediascanner.07:14
robinktank-man: ...which is currently missing OGG support in Diablo.07:14
tank-mani see07:14
robinktank-man: I corresponded with a developer at OpenBossa, and he said they'll have lightmediascanner0-ogg in the Diablo Extras repository in time for the release of canola2_beta10.07:14
robinktank-man: ...which should be hopefully by next week.07:15
robinkMan, I need to buy a Beagle Board.07:15
kulverobink: what would you do with a beagleboard?07:17
robinkkulve: Actually learn how to develop for an OMAP.07:18
robinkkulve: ...since it's what's going to be used for the next generation of Nokia's tablets, purportedly.07:18
robinkkulve: I've started to get familiar with the N810's archetecture, but since the 3530 has a different DSP I thought I'd get a BeagleBoard to learn about what the differences are.07:19
kulveI guess you can learn most of the omap stuff with n8x0 as well..07:19
robinkkulve: That's true.07:19
kulveand there's currently two dsp "gateways" for omap3: dsp link and dsp bridge and I think neither of them are in the omap kernel yet..07:19
kulvebut nevertheless, it's a fun toy :)07:20
robinkkulve: Ah.07:20
robinkkulve: Indeed :-)07:20
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robink'night lopz07:34
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tekojoWhat's the best way to start gathering info on what parts of the site the community uses actively?08:47
Stskeepsaccess_log? :>08:48
tekojoI mean bigger bits, like wiki, garage (I know these are pretty heavily used) and so forth08:48
tekojoYes :-) but the other side, what is really important08:48
tekojoI mean the index page gets a huge number of hits, but my guess is that most people just go somewhere from there08:49
tekojoCommunity mailing list?08:50
* Stskeeps personally uses the wiki and mailing list archives 08:50
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bef0rdGoogle analytics :P08:54
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tekojoHmm, maybe. But I am interested in knowing what is important (there's enough to do, so figuring out what to do first is an issue)08:57
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GeneralAntillesWiki is top priority.09:05
GeneralAntillesI've faced a lot of resistance in getting people to use it because of the server issues.09:05
GeneralAntillesNext I'd say that Downloads needs to be fast.09:06
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tekojoThanks GA!09:06
GeneralAntillesThen Garage09:06
GeneralAntillesBugzilla is in good shape, so that's not an issue09:06
Stskeepswhat's with the bizarre obsession with https on garage btw?09:07
AlystairGeneralAntilles I'm creating the most ghetto awesome system ever09:08
GeneralAntillesAlystair, does it involve DOSBox?09:08
Alystairsince the 770 is too damn slow to run any cool full screen effects, it's just going to VNC into a server that has multiple browser windows specifically locked down for each 770 connected09:09
Stskeepssounds like a plan09:09
Alystairso it effectively becomes a dumb terminal over wifi09:09
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GeneralAntillesWhy not just use the 770 to access the site directly?09:09
Alystairyou try doing slick sliding effects using JS.09:10
GeneralAntillesWhy does it need to be slick?09:10
Alystairbecause point of sale systems normally suck terribly.09:10
GeneralAntillesI mean, not even Apple's PoS system is slick. :P09:10
Alystairthis is going to be the ipod of POSes.09:10
AlystairGeneralAntilles: it is in comparison to other places. instant checkout? awesome.09:11
bef0rdjott, ping =)09:11
GeneralAntillesI can't see how VNC would be any smoother than local js.09:11
GeneralAntillesand can picture it being quite a bit less smooth, in fact.09:11
StskeepsAlystair: if anything fails, there's always X forwarding09:11
GeneralAntillesWhy not just a native GTK application?09:11
Alystairbecause I know how to make a web application inside out with out learning anything new09:12
Alystairand to do a GTK app I'd need to learn a whole slew of new things09:12
GeneralAntillestekojo, in general, I'd prioritize the user stuff over the developer stuff in the short-term.09:12
GeneralAntillesWell, it'd be a lot smoother with GTK.09:12
Alystairin what language is that coded?09:13
GeneralAntillesTake your pick. ;)09:13
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GeneralAntillesThe preference is C09:13
GeneralAntillesPython is also an option, though.09:13
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AlystairI'd need to learn so much just for a "hello world" let alone a slick ipod like interface.09:16
GeneralAntillesHeck, there are GTK bindings for PHP if you're really sick. :P09:17
summatusmentisthere are?09:17
Alystairhaha just realized this would be a really ugly solution09:18
Alystairsince there is only one mouse pointer09:18
Alystairso people would end up stealing the cursors09:18
GeneralAntillesIf you want slick, Python + EFL is gonna be the way to go (Canola)09:18
jottbef0rd: pong :)09:19
AlystairGeneralAntilles: can I easily create a program in portrait mode?09:20
* Alystair just googles it all09:21
GeneralAntillesErm, "program in"?09:21
GeneralAntillesThat'd be a xserver-level deal.09:22
GeneralAntillesAll you really need to know from a programming standpoint are the window dimensions.09:22
Alystairwhich would be 480x80009:23
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bef0rdjott, I'm trying to apply the new patches from
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bef0rdjott, I just did the dpkg -i step, but got some error messages ...
GeneralAntillesosso-software-version-variant? :\09:25
jottosso-software-version-variant ?09:25
AlystairCanola doesn't even run on my 2007HE. Installs, then after running it "Canola - Loading"... then vanishes.09:25
* GeneralAntilles gets ready to blame rm_you again.09:25
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jottbef0rd: you only need the -unlocked if you have the "-locked" version :)09:26
jottdon't ask me what you have there ;)09:26
Alystairjott: Can rotation work on 2007HE :(09:26
jottAlystair: theoretically it could09:27
bef0rdoh, let me check that package policy09:27
jottAlystair: i think the touchscreen makes some trouble when rotated, so this has to be patched somewhere i guess..09:27
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bef0rdjott,  should I follow with the next steps ? :P09:33
jottbef0rd: yes.09:33
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jottbef0rd: you could also remove this variant package and install the proper -unlocked one.09:33
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Alystairall the "click to install" links are now forwarding back to :|09:34
Alystair <-- how can I actually download anything09:34
bef0rdjott, according to apt-cache policy I don't have that installed09:35
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jottbef0rd: hum..09:36
jottbef0rd: try apt-get -f install ?09:36
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* Alystair goes back to his absolutely insane VNC idea + VM layer per tablet09:37
marcell_Alystair: change to in the links09:37
marcell_Alystair: on maemo-efl page09:37
Alystairthis is going to break my fingers09:37
Alystairbecause I can't find the VNC server for os200709:37
Alystairso I need to retype everything on the damn on-screen thing09:38
bef0rdjott, just rebooted from flash, everything seems to be working09:38
Alystairmarcell_: unable to download. application package not found.09:40
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Alystairis this the normal non-windows/osx experience when trying to get work done.09:42
GeneralAntillesI say again, the 770 is old and not well supported.09:43
AlystairI'm running 2007HE now, that shouldn't be the problem :(09:43
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GeneralAntillesYou should be aware of what you're getting into when you buy a 3 year old device. ;)09:43
GeneralAntillesOS2007 is unsupported.09:43
RST38hmoo all09:43
GeneralAntillesHacker Edition even more so.09:43
Alystairedje demos don't even run on the system :(09:45
Alystairthanks for the link to VNC tho09:46
marcell_GeneralAntilles: the install files can be downloaded if the is replaced with At least the first one worked for me.09:46
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StskeepsAlystair: you on os2007he now or?09:58
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PingerHow to set up USB networking with winXP?09:58
Alystairyes, 2007he09:59
StskeepsPinger: the RDNIS part of usb networking is broken in n800/n810 versions sadlty09:59
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StskeepsAlystair: if you know how to get into the terminal or ssh in.. could you do me a favour and dpkg -l | grep xserver?09:59
PingerI know that09:59
Stskeepsjust curious what x server the HE runs09:59
* mgedmin wants mmpc for diablo :/09:59
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Pingerwhat do i do to use the network under winXP10:00
Alystairii  xserver-xomap                                                   OMAP X server10:00
StskeepsAlystair: ta10:00
Stskeepsregarding rotation i found
Stskeepsbut i'm not sure it works on HE10:01
PingerStskeeps: How can solve this problem?10:02
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StskeepsPinger: the usb networking is broken for windows machines10:02
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AlystairStskeeps: the joke is that I really don't need the launcher/osso/whateverthehell loads initially10:02
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AlystairI want this to become a locked down piece of equipment where only one full screen program executes unless you key in a password or reflash it or something10:03
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StskeepsAlystair: yeah - i'm just collecting info so it's easier to put alternative OS'es on the 77010:03
Alystaircool :)10:03
jsmanriqueanyone using easy 0.7 in Diablo in a N800?10:03
jsmanriquecamera module in n800 claims IOError because it can't find jpeg decoder, but in N810 I don't get that error... any idea?10:04
AlystairStskeeps: using this dpkg thing I can uninstall any crap I don't think I need on the device?10:05
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StskeepsAlystair: yeah, but you may also break things horridly :P10:05
AlystairI'm not afraid of anything breaking at this point10:05
Alystaircan always reflash10:05
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* Stskeeps is just waiting for his friend to get his 770 he got on ebay so that person can start hacking on deblet for it10:06
Alystairyou can get your own for dirt cheap10:06
Alystairhell I might sell mine and buy an ipod touch instead :P10:07
Stskeepswell, i paid for this friends one as it would be a motivational thing to get it working ;)10:07
Alystairthen again you can't make a POS on an ipod and expect it to not walk out the door one day.10:07
Alystairer POS terminal10:07
Stskeepsyeah :P10:11
Stskeepsmost people wouldn't know how to deal with a 77010:11
Alystairthe 770 would hit all the categories needed if I could actually start to develop on the damn thing10:11
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Alystairnone of the demos work for this Canola stuff10:12
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Alystairok learned some new things that are useless to me via shell, like where background images and sounds are located for default launcher :|10:21
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liriis anyone experienced with maemo mapper? this might be more related to google maps url... street maps for my country are only available via the url: and I was wondering how to get that to work with maemo mapper's url (
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Alystairah now the systemui.xml file is cool :)10:23
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StskeepsAlystair: <- my tablet at some point :>10:24
Alystairwoah what is this10:24
Alystairit looks linuxy10:24
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Stskeepsdebian on the tablets10:24
aquatixheh, interesting10:24
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Alystairlmao are you running multiple screens10:24
aquatixlooks nice, Stskeeps10:24
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StskeepsAlystair: no, just running debian on it :P10:25
Alystairis it actually responsive?10:25
Stskeeps(unless you're referring to the virtual desktops)10:25
Stskeepsi should really do a video sometime..10:25
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GeneralAntillesComcast needs to die in a fire.10:25
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StskeepsAlystair: but that's what i'm hoping to bring to 770 :P10:26
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GeneralAntillesApparently I'm not allowed to use http anymore. . . .10:27
Alystairexcept I don't need any of this amazing magic, I just want to run a single app blah blah blah10:27
StskeepsAlystair: it's a matter of just selecting the right environment, barebones X10:28
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Alystairmhm :)10:28
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Stskeepsand them build you app on top10:28
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Alystairand learn how to code in something beyond javascript :P10:28
Alystairand php.10:28
Alystairand neither count :(10:28
StskeepsAlystair: vncviewer exists :P10:28
rm_youfinally in berlin at casa jott10:29
GeneralAntillesrm_you didn't crash into the ocean.10:29
Alystaireven I think that's a really ugly hack though.10:29
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StskeepsAlystair: well then it's a matter of a gtkmozembed app.. sec10:29
rm_youyep! woo10:29
Alystairthe cool thing about doing it via VNC is if the tablet crashes nothing is lost.10:29
Alystairjust pick up another one and keep going10:30
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Alystairyou know what's real interesting though? The internal sketch pad from 2007HE is a lot smoother on the 770 than the original sketch tool in 2006.10:32
Alystairmaybe there's buffering of input10:32
jsmanriqueI get this: "IOError: decoder jpeg not available"10:35
jsmanriquebut in N810 it works10:36
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AlystairStskeeps: this one is cooler
Alystairis "matchbox" the default launcher in 2007HE?10:42
Alystairlooks like it is10:43
Stskeepsit's the usual window manager10:44
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RST38hAlystair: btw, there is Google ;)10:46
Alystairsorry :(10:47
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StskeepsAlystair: ;)10:50
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Alystairok google does not answer, what is sapwood?10:51
Stskeepsthink it's a theme engine thing, not sure10:52
melmothworks here (hint: "sapwood maemo")10:52
AlystairI'm such a tool :(10:54
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* robink wants lardman to come back.10:57
fluentisdoes anyoone know how to get access to the f keys on a nokia 810 in dosbox?10:57
fluentisf1, f2 etc10:58
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Stskeeps <- brilliant!11:00
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Alystairhaha that's great Stskeeps11:04
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Alystairhis double sided jars are also cool11:06
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robinkMy N810 just lost IPv6 support.11:06
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robinkCan't load ipv6.ko as modprobe can't parse modules.dep11:08
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wnduse insmod11:10
robinkJust did11:11
robinkAm I going to have to insmod ipv6.ko every time from now on?11:11
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wndhow did you get the module loaded before?11:12
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wndpersonally I use this,
wndit loads the module at system start up11:12
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robinkMaemo used to load it at startup for me anyway.11:13
robinkHow do I regenerate modules.dep?11:14
wndfor whatever reason it didn't do that for me, not even though I do have autoconfiguration and native ipv611:14
* wnd shrugs11:14
robinkWhen I tried to upgrade the whole thing, it upgraded the kernel modules but not the kernel; could that be the problem?11:15
wndfor what it's worth I get the same error from modprobe11:15
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wndalso on one of our development devices (that I tried) running older releases11:16
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robinkHow annoying11:16
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wndmy guess is that that's because /lib/modules simply isn't there11:18
robinkAfter insmodding ipv6.ko, the whole network stack packs it in.11:19
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wndand to answer the actual question, normally modules.dep can be created with depmod11:20
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wndhowever since the modules are under /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/ I'm not sure if running depmod is such a good idea11:20
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robinkwnd: Oh, I was insmodding the module in /lib/modules/2.6.21-omap211:21
wndas I said, I don't even have /lib/modules. all the modules I have are in initfs.11:24
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jsmanriqueok, my jpg decoder problem is a PIL problem...11:34
jsmanriquewhy does it works different in N800 and N810, both with Diablo installed?11:34
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Alystairhmmm remote desktop client dies11:45
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AlystairThe program 'rdesktop' received an X Window System error. The error was 'BadAtom (invalid Atom parameter)'. (Details: serial 49 error_code 5 request_code 23 minor_code 0)11:47
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RST38hehlo hrw11:54
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timelyxAlystair: file a bug against rdesktop11:57
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timelyxdon't forget to install -dbg packages and run w/ --sync11:57
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StskeepsAlystair: there's a better build of rdesktop afaik tthat fixes that problem12:02
BlafaselMoin. Stupid question: Although I have a fine confirmation for my summit registration (got it looong ago) I'm not part of the list here:
BlafaselPlease tell me that this has nothing to do with my registration at all.12:03
BlafaselActually forget about that and add me to the list of people you know that are unable to write their own name. Thanks for your attention, I'll now return to embarassed lurker-mode again.12:04
* aquatix pats Blafasel and hands him a cup of coffee12:06
* timelyx makes it an espresso12:06
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AlystairStskeeps: Where do I find it, the one on garage doesn't install on 2007 :|12:12
Alystairwhoops 5am, bye.12:13
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Stskeepsnothing better than when the uni fileserver breaks down and your work machine stalls completely..12:27
timelyxAFS or NFS?12:30
Stskeepswell, samba in this case, but nfs would exhibit same results12:31
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timelyxupgrade to fuse :)12:33
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Stskeepshm, does newer kernel-diablo kernels work with chinook? (curious question)12:56
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lbtStskeeps: yes12:58
lbtI multiboot chinook/diablo/diablo2/deblet12:59
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Stskeepsi'm moving deblet closer to being a debian distribution with apt repostories, non-free/contrib/main etc13:15
Stskeepsso not so many packages have to be built on tablet13:15
Stskeeps so far13:15
ShadowJKtimelyx, still probably hard to do anything useful without files :)13:16
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jsmanriqueanyone using pymaemo in n800/diablo?13:58
jsmanriquewhy jpeg encoder is failing in n800 but n810 is working? any idea?13:59
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rm_youback from shopping. i can charge my n800 on euro plugs now :P14:00
aquatixwas about the first thing i did when i got my n81014:00
aquatixbut that was because the US charger didn't fit in my wall outlets ;)14:01
rm_youanyone else in berlin yet? should be some, according to the wiki arrivals page14:01
* aquatix can't attend :(14:02
dnearyI've not left yet14:02
aquatixi should've asked the boss whether i could make it as business trip ;)14:02
hrwI use british charger via eu<>us<>uk adapter14:05
aquatixadapters are huge14:05
hrwI have very small uk->eu ones too14:05
aquatixfor me (living in the netherlands) it was a better option to just buy a dutch version ;)14:06
hrwI plan to buy nokia e51 so will get eu charger14:06
* aquatix is thinking about the nokia e7114:06
aquatixreally nice device14:06
hrwI would rather get e66 but price ;(14:07
X-Faderm_you: I'm in Berlin now :)14:07
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rm_youhey ;p kool14:10
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X-FadeAnd the hotel provided me with free wifi, so everything is ok ;)14:11
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* rm_you is hanging out with jott and about to eat lunch14:11
RST38haquatix: E71 is no replacement for E70 :(14:12
RST38hIt is shiny though14:12
* X-Fade waiting for his room to become available.14:12
GeneralAntillesThat's a new one14:13
GeneralAntillesRequest for paid tech support14:13
aquatixRST38h: hm, e71 has qwerty though14:13
aquatixoh wait14:13
RST38haquatix: it does. Have you tried using that qwerty? ;)14:14
aquatixnot yet14:14
aquatixbut i love the qwerty on my se m600i14:15
RST38hDo try at some store. You will see how it is *not* E7014:15
X-FadeI think I saw the Ars Technica editor walk by just now, not sure though ;)14:15
aquatixRST38h: never tried an E70 either :)14:16
aquatixX-Fade: ooh :)14:16
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hrwok - I have wikipedia loaded in maemo/qemu ;D14:21
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RST38haquatix: E70 is almost like a real keyboard14:28
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aquatixRST38h: yeah, it's quite large14:28
RST38hX-Fade: Practice catch&release =)14:28
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rm_youwhen do i need to be at osim tomorrow? what time is registration?14:29
* rm_you fails at finding the wiki page14:30
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X-Faderm_you: should be able to tell you?14:30
rm_youlol k14:31
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Khertan_n810Hi !14:33
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mikkov_X-Fade: any progress on this ?14:37
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lirihey Khertan14:39
Khertan_n810hey liri14:39
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X-Fademikkov_: Not at the moment. I'm having a battle with openoffice for my OSiM World presentation ;)14:41
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Khertan_n810X-Fade: better than my battle with google document14:49
Khertan_n810This things is too bad14:50
* andrewfblack would be Khertan_n810 best friend if he made a google document sync program14:51
X-FadeWell, at least I have my laptop with me and I don't have to do it on the small screen of my tablet.14:53
Khertan_n810andrewfblack: brontide work on it14:53
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jsmanriqueis there any documentation about py2deb package?15:00
jsmanriqueI am using pypackager to build .deb but I would like testing py2deb15:01
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* timeless sighs15:06
* timeless shakes head15:06
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timelessfatal: Bug 3720 has been added to the database15:14
timelessspelling is hard for people in this land15:14
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lcukKhertan_n810, you ready?15:19
Fataloh neat, some thumbnails only work when you're logged in on the site. vs
timelessthat made me log in...15:20
Fatal(stripping the "filename" makes the link work even when not logged on)15:20
Fatalguess I should dig up whomever to pester about such things15:21
X-FadeFatal: That is because of a problem with memcached. Will be fixed soon.15:21
FatalX-Fade: how long has it been like this? (I kind of recall seemingly random images dropping off the site when going there on my tablet (never thought about it until now though))15:22
X-Fadehttps isn't cached, so you don't have that problem.15:23
Fatalnever thought about it as to investigate, the missing images has been like that for atleast a couple of months from my experience15:23
lcukx-fade, any ideas for how to embed a video into a presentation?15:23
X-FadeHas been this way for a long time. Memcached has issues at these high loads.15:23
lcukor is it simply not possible15:23
timelesshigh loads?15:23
FatalX-Fade: but is good to know it's being resolved, thanks15:23
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FatalX-Fade: I suspect that's the same reason why I randomly don't get to see the "click to install" image?15:24
X-FadeFatal: Yes.15:25
FatalX-Fade: ok good, asking because I couldn't reproduce it at my workstation, thanks15:25
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X-FadeYes, problems like that are pretty random.15:27
FatalX-Fade: timeless question was kind of interesting though, how high loads are we talking about?15:27
X-FadeLoad > 40? :)15:28
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timelesshow many cpus?15:28
* aquatix has seen images not appear on for months, also on his pc's15:28
aquatixX-Fade: whoa15:28
X-Fade1 quadcore.15:28
Fatal>40, o_O INSANE15:28
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timelessso that's really >1015:28
Fatalsorry for caps15:28
timelessiirc load is total processes waiting for any cpu per unit time15:29
aquatixX-Fade: is it going to be multiple servers?15:29
Fatalif we had a system like that at work, I'd be slapping the admin silly and say "you're doing it wrong" :)15:29
X-Fadetimeless: Well, yes.15:29
timelessif you have 4 cpus that means you only really have 10 processes waiting for one cpu15:29
FatalI guess the server handles a whole more than "just" the website?15:29
* timeless hopes not15:29
timelessw/ a load of 40, esp if that's a typical load, then it should be dedicated15:30
X-Fadeaquatix: Yep, loadblanced.15:30
aquatixtimeless: iirc, it doesn't only do a single website15:30
* timeless wonders who uses automake1.5, automake1.6, automaken15:31
* GAN800 isn't sure he wants to try his luck with the Comcast connection again.15:35
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timelessi'm trying my luck w/ apt15:37
timelessit's not fun15:37
timelessfeature: apt-get doesn't flush its output which means that it may or may not spit all lines to stdout before it's reaped15:37
timelessthis makes processing it from anything hard/impossible15:37
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timelesscan someone please load about:plugins on their n8x0 and tell me what version of flash is listed?15:49
timelessi want to know if nokia ever fixed that15:49
* timeless is assuming it wasn't15:49
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TPCit says Shockwave Flash 9.0 r3115:52
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* timeless wonders how frequently andre___ imports bugs into nokia's db16:48
GeneralAntillesUsually at least once every couple days.16:49
andre___like... now. :-P16:50
GeneralAntilless/once/one batch/16:50
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Usually at least one batch every couple days.16:50
GeneralAntillesToo often. . . .16:50
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* GeneralAntilles is actually somewhat impressed by iTunes 8.16:55
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fluentisa question about canola2 - is it correct to ask in this chan?17:16
GeneralAntilles #canola is where all the experts are17:17
GeneralAntillesbut you may get an answer here.17:17
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fluentisso - it's just about the albom cover art sorting option... when i'm trying to go into album sort i have an album for every song of this album... sorry, it's realy difficult to explain... so imagine - album "jogga" and there are 5 tracks in it - in winamp i have just : album "joga" and in it 5 tracks, in canola i have 5 times the album "jogga" - once for every track... :(17:20
fluentisi think it's a way canola interpretes id tags - but dunno know how to solve it... what should i change?17:21
GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to hit tz with a stick17:23
GeneralAntillesHis bug reports are the next best thing to useless.17:23
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fluentishm... nobody a hint?17:26
liriwould an imap mail account result in downloading ALL headers of the messages I have?17:26
keesjfluentis: there is one optionin the settings to remove duplicates17:26
fluentisnope it's not duplicates17:27
keesjbut to put them in one "group"17:27
jsmanriquecould somebody help me with my Python/PIL problem?17:27
lmourajsmanrique, I was going to take a look at it right now17:28
jsmanriquelmoura: ok, thanks17:28
keesjit's under settings media library -> Multiple album entries17:29
lmouraso, the jpeg codec fails in n810, although using the same version?17:29
jsmanriquelmoura: jpeg codec fails in N800, but works in N81017:29
jsmanriquelmoura: both have same OS17:29
lmouraoh, right17:29
fluentiskeesj: i'll try it now... thank you17:30
jsmanriquelmoura: and both seem having same Python (2.5.2)17:30
jsmanriquelmoura: both have libjpeg 6217:30
fluentisanother question is about dosbox for maemo.... hmm... how to get acces to special funkttion keys with n810 hardware keyboard? f1, f2 etc?17:30
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lmourajsmanrique, is that Image module the PIL one or you wrote it?17:32
jsmanriquelmoura: it is the PIL one... I don't have that programming level to create my own one :-D17:33
lmourajsmanrique, easy package? I'm talking to their developers now17:34
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jsmanriquelmoura: both machines are using easy 0.7, but the error seems to come from PIL from PyMaemo.. I think17:35
melmothjsmanrique: what about comparing the package list installed on both machines ?17:35
jsmanriquemelmoth: done17:35
jsmanriquemelmoth: but it is not a trivial task17:35
melmothof course it is... dpkg -l , a bit of python or sed/awk to read both list and compare17:36
jsmanriquemelmoth: yes, more or less17:36
melmothactually, its the same os installed ? dpkg -i > list.txt , then sort them, then diff them17:37
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jsmanriquemelmoth: ok, maybe I could try17:37
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lmourajsmanrique, melmoth it is looking like more a missing dependency while building the package17:40
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melmothlmoura: same os, so i would expect same packages content and dependencies definitions17:41
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jsmanriquemelmoth: it seems that python2.5-imaging is the same in both devices (1.1.6-1osso2)17:42
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jsmanriqueit seems that python2.5-runtime is different17:43
jsmanriquec1.0-3 in n810 and 1.0-8 in n80017:44
lmourajsmanrique, python runtime is just a meta package for the python* packages17:44
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jsmanriquepython-hildon is also different17:45
jsmanrique0.8.8-1oso8 en n810, and 0.8.9-1osso2 in n80017:46
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lmourajsmanrique, I'm going out for lunch now and when I'm back I'll continue, ok?17:47
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jsmanriquemaybe I'll send the python installed packages list to maemo and pymaemo developers list..17:48
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* guenther points at the /topic17:50
guentherAre the results still provisional?17:50
guentherDidn't the 5 day time-frame pass already?17:51
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melmothjsmanrique: why wouldnt you start by updating the machine to the latest version of pcakage available ?17:55
melmothyou know. bug gest fixed (sometimes)17:55
jsmanriquemelmoth: nice idea, but... everything in n800 was installed from zero yesterday17:57
melmothif i were you , i would try it anyway17:58
melmothonce i would have the same settings everywhere, then, comparing strace17:59
jsmanriquemelmoth: but, package manager says that there isn't any update available...17:59
melmothhow is this possible : if you use the same repo, then you should have the same version of software installed on both system if both are up to date18:00
fluentissomebody use dosbox on a n810?18:00
jsmanriquemelmoth: that is one of my questions18:00
jsmanriquemelmoth: n810 has more repos, but n800 is using latest updates... so, is the bug new?18:01
melmothmay be18:01
jsmanriquemelmoth: and this is turning me mad18:01
melmothmake both system up to date at the same patchlevel. double check it is still wokring ok on the one where you did not have the problem (just in case it s a new bug)18:02
melmothif it s a new bug: report it on with a test case18:03
melmothif not, compare strace output on both system, and try to see why it says there is no such file18:03
melmothmay be permission, who knows ?18:03
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jsmanriquemelmoth: now, both devices have same repositories configured...18:07
jsmanriquemelmoth: both are updating packages list.. let's see if they ask for updates..18:08
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GeneralAntillesguenther, suppose not, dneary needs to declare, though.18:08
jsmanriquemelmoth: nice, 10 updates for n81018:09
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jsmanriquemelmoth: but, none python related :-/18:10
guentherGeneralAntilles: Ah, I see.18:11
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GeneralAntillesguenther, by the way, thanks for the help on the IRC bot.18:12
guenthersure, no problem18:13
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GeneralAntillesHowdy, lardman.18:14
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jsmanriquepython packages list sent to pymaemo mailing list18:24
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|fluentis|does anybody know in which chan i could ask a question about dosbox in maemo?18:49
||cwI guess you could ask here... maybe some one uses it18:49
|fluentis|so - i need a hint, how to access the funktion key (F1, F2, F3 etc.) on a hardwarekeyboard of a N81018:50
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|fluentis|in dosbox18:51
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timelyxGeneralAntilles: i spent a lot of time trying to report a bug to apple about itunes819:02
timelyxit insisted on server the mandatory terms and conditions in Finnish to myself (an English speaker) and my russian colleague19:02
timelyxGeneralAntilles: who's tz?19:03
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lardmanHi GeneralAntilles, sorry for the delay19:06
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GeneralAntillesIn particular, this bug:
jsmanriqueI have to leave...19:08
jsmanriquesee you tomorro19:08
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lardmanGeneralAntilles: Can you access the google docs presentation? Doesn't seem to like me19:09
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lardmanBring on faster hw, this is painfully slow - modest + email draft + web x2 + pidgin for irc19:11
qwerty12pidgin sucks for irc, xchat ftw19:12
lardmanLet me check19:13
qwerty12If you want real lightness, irssi :P19:13
GeneralAntillesYeah, XChat for serious.19:13
GeneralAntillesIt's in Extras-devel.19:13
lardmanOk, just installed19:15
* qwerty12 sighs and tries to fix a simple string replace util that keeps segfaulting19:15
GeneralAntilleslardman, despite the slowness, it's damn cool that it can manage it at all. :D19:15
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derfqwerty12: sed?19:17
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qwerty12derf: yeah, I guess that's an option. I wonder why the author of this code chose to make his own utility.19:18
derfWhy are there 5,000 text editors?19:19
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Stskeepsbecause a great number of text editors make one microsoft word?19:19
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lardmanbetter, device crashed19:20
derfEven I wrote a text editor. For DOS. In PASCAL.19:20
derfFortunately, I wisely threw that code away rather than let anyone see it.19:20
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yacoobit's now sleeping, waiting for the moment when the Stars Are Right.19:21
||cwthe text editors I use do things word doens't19:22
MangoFusionderf: because 99% of text editors suck. nobody can get it right ;)19:22
||cwand word does things my text editors don't.  they are for different tasks19:22
lardmanGeneralAntilles: only seems to be one page?19:22
||cwscite does things pretty damned right19:22
GeneralAntilleslardman, it just needs your bio entries19:22
GeneralAntillesIf you want to paste them to me I can enter them19:22
GeneralAntilles /paste you the others for examples.19:23
MangoFusiondoes it order cups of tea for you during a long code jamming session? i think not19:23
MangoFusionso not right ;)19:23
derfemacs will.19:23
||cwI'm sure one could make a plug-in to do that19:23
||cwemas is an OS, not an editor :P19:23
derfC-x M-c M-cupoftea19:24
lardmanGeneralAntilles: i'll have a look and send them in an email19:24
Stskeepsqwerty12: is soft poweroff similar to s2ram btw?19:24
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qwerty12Stskeeps: I would say not. s2ram suspends the cpu and softpoweroff keeps the tablet alive while it is in that state19:24
derfThere was an actual s2ram script floating around a while back.19:25
Stskeepsthere's a binary without source still (n800-s2ram)19:25
Stskeepsand i just wonder how it works19:25
qwerty12^^ the script19:25
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Stskeepsoh that's interesting19:26
derfIt can just use the normal Linux software suspend interface.19:26
derfThe only problem is it has to frob the watchdog.19:26
derfSo it can only suspend for 60s at a time.19:26
Stskeepsyeah, but that prolly helps power consumption19:26
derfBetter than nothing, anyway.19:26
timelyxGeneralAntilles: you should at least mention how to get the log form application manager19:27
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Stskeepsderf: fanoush spoke something about 30 days on s2ram19:29
derfI'd believe it.19:29
derfDoes that binary integrate itself nicely into the soft poweroff menu?19:30
qwerty12No, it runs as a service19:30
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, soft poweroff is no different from locking.19:31
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derfMaybe I will write one that does.19:31
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jsmanriqueI am back (at home now)19:31
rm_youso, anyone ELSE in berlin yet? ;p19:33
* Mek isn't arriving until friday during lunch :P19:33
johnx_rm_you, how was the flight? :D19:33
rm_youaccording to the travel wiki, we should have a few by now. just the problem of them finding wireless and loading up irc :P19:34
rm_youjohnx_: not actually  that bad19:34
timelyxrm_you: i'm flying tomorrow morning19:34
timelyxno idea about flight path or anything19:34
rm_youbarely made my connection19:34
timelyxanyone know anything about the conferencing?19:34
timelyxi'm scheduled to do a presentation19:34
timelyxbut no one explained what i'd have19:34
timelyxlike a projector...19:35
timelyxor support for slides19:35
timelyxor a whiteboard19:35
timelyxor a microphone..19:35
johnx_rm_you, skeery. I've had to run for those before...always exciting, rarely fun19:35
rm_youhad to sprint to make it, landed at 530 and departure was 550. surprised my bg made the transfer19:35
GeneralAntillestimelyx, there may be details on the wiki.19:35
GeneralAntillesSupposedly there should be stuff there.19:35
infobotrm_you meant: had to sprint to make it, landed at 530 and departure was 550. surprised my bag made the transfer19:35
GeneralAntillesI've yet to see a straight answer, though.19:35
timelyxGeneralAntilles: how about wifi? :)19:36
timelyxyes, i can be greedy sometimes ;-)19:36
GeneralAntillesWifi should be plentiful19:37
rm_youjohnx_: unlike japan, i was able to buy a prepaid sim card and phone for 20€19:37
GeneralAntillesThe c-base guys are setting up a server to handle videos, pictures and such19:37
timelyxthe last conference i was at, the wifi was slower than my cell19:37
GeneralAntillesSo there's got to be a way to access it.19:37
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GeneralAntilles___t is with c-base, I believe.19:37
rm_youyeh but this is osim, not cbase19:37
GeneralAntillesSo if you see him here, you can ask.19:37
timelyxbtw, since i should arrive tomorrow19:37
GeneralAntillesThe presentations for you guys will be at c-base, though, no?19:37
timelyxcan i go to osim? if so, how?19:38
timelyxi'm only scheduled to present at maemo summit on friday @419:38
timelyxi'm not scheduled to go to osim19:38
* timelyx isn't sure what an osim is19:38
GeneralAntillesOSIM is where Ari is giving his talk.19:38
rm_youah yeh prolly the one he's talking about... but i have to demo stuff at the booth tomorro19:38
johnx_rm_you, the situation is better here if you take a 3G GSM phone from Europe. There should be a way to roam on docomo...but I digress...19:38
GeneralAntillestimelyx, most of the community guys being sponsored are registered for OSiM19:39
GeneralAntillesDunno about the corporate folks.19:39
rm_youi thought the system there wasnt even supported by quadband >_>19:39
GeneralAntillesThat'd be an internal question'd be my bet.19:39
timelyxwhat's it cost to attend?19:39
johnx_rm_you, it's ... uhm ... complicated19:40
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rm_youyou can come to the free dev session... tho i have a feeling nokia should have already paid for you...19:40
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rm_youor... dunno wtf your situation is19:42
timelyxi didn't ask to go to osim19:42
rm_youjott is filling me in19:42
GeneralAntillesProbably the only interesting thing is Ari's talk.19:42
* lardman isn't going to osim either - at another conf19:42
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GeneralAntillesJamieBennett may very well be taping Ari's talk, so it may not matter that much.19:43
timelyxok, alternatively, is there some place to do work @osim19:48
timelyxlike could i go, get free wifi and power and just code for maemo19:48
timelyxalso, will bpeople be around for pre sumats?19:48
timelyxs/sumats/summit chats/19:48
infobottimelyx meant: also, will bpeople be around for pre summit chats?19:48
rm_youi'll be at osim but i imagine people will want to gather at the end of the day for aemo discussion, etc19:52
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jsmanriquelmoura: could you test something?19:53
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lmourajsmanrique, I managed to reproduce it here19:54
jsmanriquelmoura: that sounds interesting19:55
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* brontide is waiting around for my flight19:59
GeneralAntillesThe tablets are the perfect airport companions.19:59
brontideGlad I setup my BT/3g link last week19:59
brontideright now I'm on my laptop listening to german phrases20:00
GeneralAntillesHere's some really lame spam:
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brontideBah, now they are going after existing threads?  Spammers need to get a life20:01
GeneralAntillesThey've been using that approach for a couple weeks now.20:01
brontideFirst I've seen it, but iTT has been low on my list as of lately due to life20:02
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GeneralAntillesJust as well, it's more of a waste of time than usual.20:02
Andy80hi all20:02
Andy80is someone of you already at maemo summit?20:02
brontideHi Andy20:02
* brontide is about 12 hours away20:02
Andy80brontide: you'll be there in 12 hours?20:03
brontidegive or take20:03
Andy80cool :) I'll be there on 18, late in the evening20:04
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lcukare people having an informal meeting anywhere before friday?20:06
lcukie outside c-base or something20:06
lcukor in a hotel or somethin20:06
brontideI'm sure something ad-hoc will appear thursday after OSiM20:07
rm_youwell, all the sponsored people that are attending osim will probably meet tomorrow for the keynote20:08
lcukrm_you, are you in germany already20:08
* jott can poke rm_you for real20:09
BlafaselDo it!20:09
lcukand rm_you can stroke your pussy for real20:09
* jott does not share lcuks fantasies 20:09
rm_youi'm currently hanging out with jott, so... if anyone is in the area, we've just been hacking all afternoon20:09
rm_youhe does have TWO cute pussies20:09
RST38hlcuk/rm_you/jott moo20:10
lcukrm_you, ive seen his cats, but he didnt show me the pussy movies20:10
lcukyou must be very special :D20:10
lcukRST38h, are you comin to berlin this week?20:11
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jotthmm, is it time for a cold beer yet? :)20:11
lcukhow was the flight rm_you20:11
lcukits ALWAYS time for a cold beer20:11
* brontide needs a shower20:11
lcukunless its time for a warm beer20:11
RST38hlcuk: Nope20:12
lcukwhich case you would know its not time for a cold beer20:12
RST38hlcuk: Work.20:12
* lcuk is goin aq bit mad with stress20:12
jottRST38h: lcuk motto is "never code sober"20:12
GeneralAntilles That's too bad, RST38h.20:12
jotthe always tries to hit the ballmer peak20:12
rm_younot bad. sat next to an old german guy named hans who knew a little bit of english so we took turns trying to speak each other's language20:12
GeneralAntillesIsn't Intel sponsoring OSiM?20:12
lcukjott, i have only ever coded once whilst drunk and i cocked that up so i wont try again20:12
rm_youand we did some of the exercises from my intro german textbook. he just had to do them backwards ;p20:13
jottew, another legend dies :~(20:13
lcuklol rm_you if you arent careful you could setoff an international incident20:13
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* lcuk can imagine the news20:13
RST38hGeneral: I am a corporate slave at the moment.20:13
johnx_RST38h, I know the feeling :/20:13
RST38hjott: Yea, just today we discussed elaborate torture plans for a few people with the same motto =)20:14
lcuk"Today an IRC hacker named rm punched a german passenger whilst onboard a jet at 37000feet, he said 'my mother is not the local whore'.  "20:14
GeneralAntillesRST38h, just think about how much money you're making the stockholders. ;)20:14
RST38hGeneral: Stock is down to $19+ - so not much20:14
lcukstock around the world is becoming like toilet paper20:14
RST38hGeneral: One the other hand, given yesterday financial clusterfuck...20:14
GeneralAntillesThe world is coming down.20:15
* lcuk wonders if he will get home after trip20:15
lcukGeneralAntilles, its not entirely collapsing, but theres a big shift happening20:15
RST38hlcuk: well, the oil is down too, so you have got pretty good chances the airline will still have fuel20:15
rm_youyeah. some major us financial company declared chapter 11 bankruptcy? i was hearing about it in the airport20:15
* johnx_ thought he might be safe from the US's financial "issues" here...turns out he was wrong20:16
RST38hrm_you: Rather, they are lining up for bankruptcy proceedings20:16
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lcukrm_you, over in the uk, 2 large travel firms went bump, leaving thousands of people stuck abroad in hot countries without any spare suncream20:16
RST38hjohnx: Nobody is safe realy20:16
johnx_rm_you, world stock markets are going non-linear20:16
GeneralAntillesWell, economic downturns ARE good for the environment. :P20:17
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lcukjohnx_, they have never been linear20:17
johnx_GeneralAntilles, "no more humans" would also be good for the environment...20:17
* rm_you doesn't even know what that means20:17
RST38hjohnx: That is what I have been advocating all the way20:17
RST38hjohnx: KILL ALL HUMANS20:18
brontideGah... CNN is advocating.. "Don't pull your money out now, we're just hitting bottom"20:18
lcukrm_you, the stockmarket is just one example of a chaotic system which can occasionally go through localised stability periods followed by a bifurcation which can trigger a lot of randomness20:18
brontideplease someone gouge my eyes out20:18
johnx_actually, I'd like to put some money in now...20:19
lcukbrontide,  any preference to which tool i use20:19
rm_youyeah. well. i hope i can make it through college :P20:19
johnx_all I have is sporks...20:19
lcukjohnx_, not all of it though :) just enough to see if you catch it right20:19
* brontide hates airports20:19
lcukwhere you comin from?20:20
johnx_lcuk, just enough to wish I had put more in if it works and less in if it fails?20:20
lcukive got 2 flights there and 2 back20:20
lcukjohnx_, yeah20:20
brontideAlbany International Airport... hah, flights to canada shouldn't count eh20:20
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RST38hbrontide: "Now is the best time to buy in!" (C)RBC.RU20:20
lcukahhh didnt know you were so far20:20
RST38hHave been telling it for a few days now. Today's stats: MMVB -17+%, RTS -11+%20:21
brontideHere to JFK->Tegel20:21
lcuknokias pocket i assume?20:21
brontideShould be there in time to catch the keynote tomorrow... of course. I'm a lousy state worker, I have time, but no money ;-)20:22
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brontideUgh... it's a real puddle jumper for the first flight20:24
RST38hdelta's puddle jumpers are usually served by comair out of jfk20:25
brontideDelta connect.... some partner-ish20:25
RST38hIt is Comair.20:25
brontideFreedom air20:25
RST38h60% on time arrivals20:25
RST38hFreedom Air is something new, dunno them20:25
brontideProbably the same thing, new management20:26
RST38hDelta: 76%20:26
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brontidebah, as long as I get off the ground in jfk by 7pm EST I'll be fine20:28
brontideThanks for cheering me up20:28
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brontideanyways... gotta go and save my phone battery... chat more later20:30
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* jsmanrique adding personal maemo-summit travel info to the wiki20:45
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jsmanriquewill we see freemantle and a new device in Ari's keynote tomorrow? what do you think?20:56
RST38hGeneral: Check again20:59
RST38hI have started putting together the documentation page20:59
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Stskeepswb qwerty12_N80021:02
hozanojsmanrique, did you solve the problem of the camera decoder ?21:02
qwerty12_N800hi Stskeeps21:02
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dystopiahow can US economy be bad an now 1 EUR is worth 1,38 USD previously it has been 1,55..21:16
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nemoworld economies are complex and intertangled21:16
nemodystopia: and the US has been living on rest of world's charge card for a long time21:17
callahaddystopia: The exchange rate is like that because everyone's currency is falling, albeit at different rates.21:17
nemodystopia: anyway, the midpoint is 1.41451 according to xe.com21:17
nemowhich is a bit off the high, but not that much21:17
nemogold has taken more of a hit, fascinatingly.  $776 USD21:18
nemoover 20% off high21:18
dystopiayet people are selling their gold...21:18
dystopiamaybe americans still believe in their currency, i see the Eu stock markets often reacting to the US stock markets21:19
nemooil is down to $90-ish21:19
dystopiaor at least, that is what the radio is tellin'21:19
dystopiayeah that too, oil price lowers too..21:20
* dystopia just doesn't get economics21:20
nemodystopia: the actual productive capacity of the US economy is still high21:20
nemodystopia: they've just run up a lot of debt21:20
nemodystopia: oil is priced in dollars. also, saudis are bucking opec21:20
nemodystopia: economics is fascinating. tangled ecology21:20
RST38hnemo: gold is overvalued, it had years of rising up21:20
dystopiaoil in dollars, dollar is worth less..?21:20
nemocan't just harm one thing without harming everything21:20
RST38hstill, gold is gonna go up ;)21:21
nemoRST38h: well, in inflation adjusted dollars, is not that high.21:21
RST38hnemo: more than dollars themselves though =)21:21
dystopiai heard asia is bailing out of USD favoring EUR21:21
nemoRST38h: dollar itself isn't properly inflation adjusted yet21:21
nemoRST38h: the disparity may be closed from either end21:22
nemodystopia: currency holdings are being diversified.21:22
nemoI doubt they'll switch exclusively to Euro21:22
lmourajsmanrique, I tried recompiling the package and it worked in N800. I'll upload it and soon will be fixed21:22
nemoeuropean union would just take advantage of it like US did21:22
dystopiaif i were asia i'd use both21:22
nemoif I was in asia I'd use as many stable assets as I could find21:23
nemotrouble is, these days, stable assets are hard to find21:23
dystopiabecause economy is a lot of hot air ;-)21:23
GeneralAntillesThere can't possibly be enough of a market in netbooks to justify the explosion of available modules on the market. . . .21:24
nemodystopia: clever dude. he predicted our next bubble well in advance21:24
nemoI made use of his prediction already21:24
nemodystopia: just last week I heard Marketplace discussing it, so he definitely beat the curve21:24
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dystopiaon elementary school i was taught depressions happen approx every 7 years21:26
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dystopiawith reference to the egyptian story about the cows and agriculture, with 7 years good, 7 years bad.. but i'm not sure such should be taken seriously as it refers to the bible21:27
* RST38h registered to vote21:27
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RST38hThis is how low I have fallen...21:28
dystopiais there a relationship between these depressions in the 20th/21st century and the FRS?21:29
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RST38hdystopia: with respect to US economy, the rule of thumb was 5 years up, 1 down21:31
RST38hbut, of course, every rule of thumb changes once your thumb gets broken...21:31
dystopianewly elected President Richard Nixon faced a run on the U.S. gold supply, and his solution was novel: unilaterally end the U.S. legal obligation to redeem dollars with gold; in other words, default. <- death of the gold standard21:31
dystopiaRST38h: hehe:-)21:31
dystopiaIt?s the old rule about bank debt, applied to international deficit finance: if you owe the banks $3 billion, the bank owns you. But if you owe the banks $10 trillion, you own the banks. <- :0) what a rule!21:34
dystopiaso that is why the US government purchased a bank recently?21:34
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liriis the iNES Maemo able to read .zip files or should I extract?21:38
RST38huse .gz instead21:38
RST38hI do not read .zips21:38
liribut you do read .nes right?21:39
liriwell no point in unzipping and then gz'in so I'll just extract the zips and leave it as .nes21:39
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RST38hliri: gzipping them only takes one command (gzip *.nes) and saves space21:42
hrw|gone ;)21:44
dystopianemo: war is good for the economy, correct?21:44
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RST38hhrw: fake? =)21:44
hrw|goneRST38h: real21:44
hrw|goneRST38h: but not public yet21:44
RST38hhrw: wow.21:44
Stskeepshrw|gone: wrote a bluetooth device? :P21:44
hrw|goneRST38h: use host BT to communicate21:45
hrw|gone~curse person which decide that maemo GtkListView ignore keyboard21:46
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, person which decide that maemo GtkListView ignore keyboard !21:46
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RST38hhrw: incredible stuff21:51
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RST38hcan it use wifi too? =)21:51
Khertan_WebChatHi !21:52
Khertan_WebChatI ve a question about my flight in a plane21:52
hrw|goneRST38h: if you have NDA free documentation for wifi in n8x0...21:52
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Khertan_WebChatto gain time ... i ll come only with a small baggage21:52
Khertan_WebChatkeep it with me21:52
Khertan_WebChatduring the flight21:52
Khertan_WebChatdo you think that a belt could be a problem ?21:52
hrw|gonebelt for crossbow?21:53
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StskeepsKhertan_WebChat: could always wear the belt and i doubt they'd protest21:54
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lcukKhertan_WebChat, they understand people wear belt, your main luggage goes in the cargo hold, the hand luggage must be REALLY small - they have limits to what you can hold21:59
lcukand you can only take 1 piece of hand luggage through - your laptop bag or a normal carry on bag22:00
hrw|gonelcuk: some airlines allow laptop+bag iirc22:00
nemodystopia: depends whose economy your talking about22:00
lcukthe operative there is *some* i think22:00
lcuki wouldnt like to be stood at airport and have to decide which - take a laptop bag with a small pocket22:00
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nemodystopia: who's22:01
nemowow. my grammar sucks today22:01
* nemo gets some more coffee22:01
lcukit must be contagious then - sorry22:01
* lcuk is taking laptop for the first ever time 22:01
lcukomg ive still got so much to do22:01
nemodystopia: lot of factors, but war does "create jobs" - is spectacularly inefficient at it of course.  gov't created jobs can be thought of as a risky long-term investment that might pay off, or might just run up the credit cards further.22:03
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XTLMm.. sweet depression22:03
RST38hMay I remind the participants that the latest war (Iraqi one) has not created a significant amount of jobs22:04
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nemoRST38h: the world wars helped US initially since it was selling weapons to the other combattants22:04
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nemoeven so, wasn't that beneficial - setting US up as dominant power and currency benefitted it more.22:04
nemomy spelling is screwed too. WTH22:05
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hrw|gonenemo: since iraq war started usd started to loose value22:08
hrw|goneI remember 1usd = 4 pln. now it is rather ~2pln22:08
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XTLbetter catch it and bring it back to tight value22:11
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nemohrw|gone: one of many factors22:20
nemohrw|gone: but yes. not an insignificant one22:20
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RST38hFiorina <eek>22:36
RST38hTHAT Fiorina22:36
guentherjott: around?22:37
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Proteouswe kicked jott out, no one likes that guy22:42
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konttoriHas anyone timed what is the longest time to save a page in I've now been waiting for around 3,5 minutes for it to save.22:43
konttori(adding application)22:43
GeneralAntillesDownloads is among the worst22:44
GeneralAntillesGo cook yourself dinner or something.22:44 is slow?22:44
GeneralAntillesNews to me.22:44
povbotProteous: Error: "!!" is not a valid command.22:44
povbotProteous: Error: "shush" is not a valid command.22:44
povbotProteous: Error: "IcomplainAboutErrorsAlot" is not a valid command.22:45
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RST38hGeneral: Have you checked the development page layout I have done?22:45
Proteous!a b22:46
povbotProteous: Error: "a" is not a valid command.22:46
konttorisave completed!22:46
povbotProteous: Error: No closing quotation22:46
povbotProteous: Error: "" is not a valid command.22:46
GeneralAntillesRST38h, the tutorials section looks like a google ad. :P22:46
guentherWhat's next? Attempting an SQL Injection?22:46
StskeepsProteous: to save the rest of us, /msg povbot !a b works too22:47
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RST38hGeneral: As long as it is short and clear, this should not be a problem22:48
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RST38hI am more concerned about placing all the other stuff (not tutorial and not reference)22:49
RST38hWill most likely link to it from Resources pane22:49
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povbotdystopia: Error: "sdrawkcab" is not a valid command.22:56
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konttoriHi guys. cairoclock is out (thanks khertan!)23:06
konttoriI just made a small blog post about it:
GeneralAntillesThere's another clock of a similar type in the statusbar-clock package.23:09
konttoriis it the same?23:10
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GeneralAntillesLooks a little nicer.23:11
timelesssouth train station ?23:12
mikkov_konttori: no, it isn't the same23:12
konttoriany screenshots of the statusbar clock thingy?23:12
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sp3000which thingy?23:13
* sp3000 has one thingy23:13
konttorithe statusbar clock home screen applet that GeneralAntilles was talking about23:13
timelesssp3000 i'm still trying... and i'm hitting some snags23:14
timelesssp3000 (mostly people snags)23:14
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GeneralAntillesmikkov_, they both provide scalable desktop clocks.23:14
sp3000you're hitting people?23:14
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konttoritimeless:  what was the uri to the flash on facebook that didn't work?23:14
konttoriI was trying to find it yesterday23:14
timelessit's basically any video in new facebook23:15
timelessor something like that23:15
timelesssadly atm new facebook triggers an infinite out of memory dialog cascade instead23:15
konttoriAh.. Can you send me a link to any?23:15
timelesswhich made testing kinda suck23:15
timelessno. requires a facebook account23:15
timelessi don't have one23:15
mikkov_GeneralAntilles: yes, but they are not the same. Transparency is cairoclock's "thing"23:15
timelessi sent you an email w/ our tester cc'd and asked him to get steps for you23:16
timelesshe should get back to you tomorrow23:16
timelessi'm travelling tomorrow to berlin23:16
konttoriI'm not interested in it today either ;)23:16
konttoriAh. I'll leave on thursday23:16
* robink wishes he hadn't upgraded the kernel modules for his N81023:17
* robink thinks that's what broke the ipv6.ko autoloading.23:17
GeneralAntilles konttori23:18
konttoriah. thanks. cool.23:19
konttoriLooks like that other clock is also using cairo23:19
konttorijust isn't transparent.23:19
* sp3000 removes from home again23:20
* sp3000 looks away23:20
* sp3000 sees desktop crash23:20
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robinkMy desktop crashes all the time.23:22
gomiamrobink: should you buy new legs for it? *ducks and hides*23:23
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robinkgomiam: Heh23:28
robinkI need either newer nVidia drivers or the Noveau ones.23:28
guentherhmm, reminds me23:28
guentherThe desktop crashes for me, too. More than frequently.23:29
* brontide is getting a charge and a good signal23:29
guentherBasically, just leave the device alone for a while...23:29
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guentherBy "crash" I mean... All home applets are disabled, and vanished from the desktop.23:30
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guentherThe enabled tray applets get reset to default, too.23:30
guentherThis seems to have started when I first set up Modest.23:31
guentherDoes the above ring a bell for anyone?23:31
mikkov_usually one of the applets is causing the crash23:31
robinkOh, N8x0 desktop?23:31
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guentherhah, yes :-)23:31
mikkov_what applets are you using?23:32
guentherYou where talking OT, eh? Right, there's a reference to nVidia later... ;)23:32
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guentherApplets: Used to be RSS Reader, Web Search, Clock, Get Started. Plus OMWeather (unstable edition) and Countdown Home.23:33
guenther(this does *not* coincide with unstable OMW install)23:33
guentherStatus Bar: large status bar clock. alarm applet disabled.23:34
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guentherFWIW, I disabled all these home applets but Clock and OMWeather.23:35
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guenthercrashed again, just a few ago23:35
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mikkov_disable them all. Then you know if it's something else or not23:35
guentherFunny, dude.23:36
guentherIf I disable all applets, how am I supposed to see the crash?23:36
guentherWhich is... disable all applets.23:36
mikkov_leave menu open23:36
robinkAnyone know why the GPE applet doesn't show todos?23:37
sp3000you've done everything there's to do?23:37
sp3000you're free now!23:37
guentherWell, applets are disabled. Let me restart though -- they are still saved and enabled in the settings. So I can really disable them.23:37
guentherHow am I supposed to see if the menu is still open, after the screen is disabled?23:38
guentherGot to tap to get t back on...23:38
mikkov_disable screen blanking23:38
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guentherright, smart move :)23:39
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mikkov_actually it seems that applications also exit when hildon-desktop crashes23:40
guentherhmm, I don't think I ever got an app running when this happened23:41
mikkov_hmm now i have two hildon-desktops running at the same time ;)23:41
mikkov_looks pretty interesting23:42
guentherhmm, wait23:42
guentherNo option to disable display switching off.23:42
mikkov_ok, now there is three hildon-desktops23:43
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guenthergo mikkov_, go!23:43
guentherThere's RAM for another one.23:44
* lcuk starts chanting "Six!!! Six!!! Six!!!"23:45
mikkov_they wont die!23:45
guentheruhm, you started announcing with 2...23:45
lcukyou will have to nuke 'em from orbit.  its the only way to be sure.23:45
guentherThere are *2* here, too.23:45
lcukoh, hes got a problem, i thought he was just stresstesting23:46
mikkov_when i try kill them, there always one more23:46
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lcukyou sure they arent just in zombie stage23:46
mikkov_they are all functional ;)23:46
mikkov_situation back to normal :)23:49
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GeneralAntillesI love that23:50
mikkov_ok, applications don't always die when hildon-desktop dies23:51
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GeneralAntillesIn fact, they usually don't.23:52
GeneralAntillesThey just disappear from the task navigator.23:52
brontideunless hldon-launcher also went crazy and/or you get whacked by the watchdog23:53
brontidehildon-launcher even23:53
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rm_youso. when should i plan to show up for osim? at  exactly 8? or like 10ish?23:56
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