IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2008-09-17

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guenthergeeky conference... 8 he said...00:03
Stskeepsa hangover and around 11 for the lucnh00:03
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* brontide wonders what international flight that pidgin is on00:07
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brontideTim and I will probably be crashing things around 11 assuming no flight delays00:07
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Stskeepssamoff? (sp)00:09
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sp3000'samoff' seems to be the correct spelling.00:22
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brontide-altStskeeps: Yep, we're on slow flights over the pond and are meeting up at Tegel00:28
Stskeepshehe, say hi from me and thanks for the logo ;)00:28
RST38hGeneral, before I go to sleep, do check the development page layout one more time00:28
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lcukyou should try to do world record wifi connection from plane2plane00:28
RST38hGeneral: It looks like vertical columns have not been such a good idea so I changed them00:29
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yacoobhm... anyone used ?00:46
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: you happen to remember which kernel .config setting generates fbcon, softcursor, bitblit, font?00:56
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: no, there's quite a few of them, can't remember the settings i enabled :/00:57
Stskeepsnm, got it00:58
Stskeepsit's basically enabling framebuffer console00:58
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* GeneralAntilles still doesn't get what allnameswereout's angle is.01:00
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* brontide-alt thinks some people just like to argue01:06
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mikkov_if server upgrade isn't done soon, we're in deep shit01:09
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GeneralAntillesWhy's that?01:10 is beginning to totally unusable01:11
mikkov_to be01:11
GeneralAntillesThat's new?01:11
dystopiamore of the same01:11
brontide-altIt's frustrating since I would to put more stuff there01:12
mikkov_not new, now it's getting unbearable even for me01:12
GeneralAntillesEh, it fluctuates.01:13
brontide-altflatulates more likely01:13
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mikkov_trend to slower and slower01:14
GeneralAntillesThe stupid Finnish holiday really screwed us over.01:14
mikkov_what holiday?01:15
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brontide-altanyways... that's my plane....   be back when I can find reliable internet in Berlin01:15
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GeneralAntillesThe really lame Finnish summer holiday.01:15
mikkov_that was 1.5 months ago01:15
GeneralAntillesWe might be a month into new servers if it weren't for the holiday.01:16
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mikkov_and generally you can keep your holidays somewhere between may and august01:17
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: noticed "Kernel Execute-In-Place from ROM" in .config btw01:19
GeneralAntillesMy point being, the people at the ISP needed to get the upgrade move going went on hoilday01:19
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: (not active)01:19
GeneralAntilleswhich delayed the upgrade until now.01:19
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: yeah, .config has a lot of things (like kexec) but they don't work :(01:20
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sneakretI can't help noticing that when I click a URL in xterm, it underlines but doesn't open. Is there a way to make it open?01:24
sneakretlike ctrl-click01:24
sneakretor sumfin01:24
qwerty12_N800grab my xterm mod01:25
sneakretgimme :)01:25
qwerty12_N800they disabled the context menu because of bugs, i reenabled because open url worked fine :)01:25
qwerty12_N800a sec :)01:25
dystopiaholy day:-)01:25
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dystopiais it possible to actually use a newer kernel than the stock using the .config from old ?01:26
sneakretalso, is there any way to make urls open in a new browser, instead of clobbering my existing one?01:26
dystopiaironically he can't click on it :0)01:27
sneakretI noticed that irony myself! :)01:28
qwerty12_N800using irssi? :p01:28
sneakretand... wouldn't it be nice to be able to open a URL from the search applet?01:28
dystopiaonce you got it working i'll send you a link to http://www.unixsex.com01:29
sneakretcan't screen xchat01:29
qwerty12_N800you can get xchat for maemo01:29
qwerty12_N800it's in diablo extras-devel01:30
GAN800You can proxy it, though.01:30
sneakretdircproxy or something?01:30
qwerty12_N800ssh -X forwarding i'd presume01:30
mikkov_it's good to know that maintainer is close to his work place ;)
sneakretah, cool. I'll check it out then!01:30
dystopiathere is a manual about this on or type /set proxy01:31
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mikkov_is there some reason why xchat is only in extras-devel?01:32
sneakretseems like it should be possible to add an Open URL to the search applet... has that been done?01:32
guenthertimeless: HAHA01:32
GAN800mikkov, mgedmin is working on cleaning up the packaging.01:33
qwerty12_N800mikkov_: mgedmin explained on -developers that there are too much locale packages01:33
guentherThanks for the uppercase hint. :)  That was from memory, but I am positive it actually is upper case.01:33
guenthertimelyx: ^^ Or is it you? ;)01:33
dystopiait does clutter the list01:33
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mikkov_xchatI think that xchat could be in extras. Seems to work fine01:39
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sneakretqwerty12_N800: No tidy little patched xterm package, eh?01:39
GAN800Like we said, it's just the packaging. ;)01:39
GAN800If somebody wants to jump in and clean it up for him, I'm sure he wouldn't mind.01:39
mikkov_packaging can be fixed later.01:39
qwerty12_N800sneakret: it's a deb.01:39
mikkov_jus promoting xchat should be fine01:40
sneakretah.... I thought it was just a .patch01:40
GAN800I need to get a windshield holder for the tablet for my headboard. . . .01:41
sneakretOh! didn't see the attachment01:41
mikkov_xchatxchat statusbar thing seems pretty useless to me01:42
GAN800It is01:42
qwerty12_N800it can be disabled in settings01:42
GAN800Turn it off in prefs.01:42
mikkov_i would vote for totally removing it ;)01:43
GAN800Disabled by default, maybe.01:43
GeneralAntillesHrm, let's see01:44
GeneralAntillesAri's talk is at 11:55 UTC+2 tomorrow01:44
GeneralAntilles5:55 local01:45
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Chaniwhy do I have a window called 'browserd' under all my other windows, showing gmail which I thought I just closed?01:47
robinkArgh, I'm missing Maemo-Summit01:48
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dystopia17:55 tomorow? live?01:53
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GAN800Doubtf there'll be a webcast01:57
GAN800Somebody should be updating us here.01:57
lcukif i crash out of a program - what happens to the memory - is it all freed up or can it be slowly eaten01:58
robink04:55 PDT.01:58
dystopiaso in about 10 hours01:58
robinkAssuming it's at 11:55PM over there.01:59
dystopia11:55 UTC+2 (Finland time), that is 10:55 in Berlin02:00
GAN800Oh, Berlin is +1?02:00
dystopiaBerlin is +1, Finland +202:00
GAN800It's in Berlin, not Finland.02:01
dystopiaso its in about 11 hours02:01
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robink02:55 PDT?02:01
robink(GMT -0700)?02:02
GAN800EDT is -4, PDT is -702:02
robinkGAN800: You guys are EDT?02:02
GAN800I am.02:02
robinkGAN800: I assume GeneralAntilles is as well.02:02
GAN800I'm not sure who 'guys' is.02:02
* GAN800 <- GeneralAntilles80002:03
robinkhaha OK n/m02:03
robinkGAN800: Gotcha.02:03
dystopiarobink: you're right though02:03
robinkdystopia: Hurrah.02:03
dystopiahope some german news service will report about OSiM02:04
GAN800baloo's got a 720p camera02:06
GAN800So we'll be getting itat some point.02:07
mikkov_dystopia: Finland is +302:07
robinkGAN800: One of those $200 720p cameras?02:07
GAN800Somebody might be able to swing a ustream feed if wifi isn't totally slammed there.02:07
GAN800robink, no, I think he's got something real.02:07
robinkmikkov_: Doesn't Finland have more than one TZ?02:07
GAN800There's and equipment list on the wiki.02:08
mikkov_robink: no02:08
robinkGAN800: The only 720p cameras I could find were ~$200.02:08
robinkmikkov_: Oh, 'k.02:08
MekI think berlin is in CEST, and thus UTC+2...02:08
GAN800robink, most big camera manufacturers have at least one now.02:08
robinkGAN800: Didn't know that.02:08
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mikkov_it's daylight saving time02:09
robinkmikkov_: Ahh.02:09
mikkov_or summer time02:09
GAN800DST need02:09
GAN800s die02:09
GAN800Stupid fkb02:09
robinkWhy was it initated anyway?02:09
mikkov_GAN800: agreed ;) (abot dst)02:09
infobotrobink meant: Why was it initiated anyway?02:10
GAN800Likes to randomly send when I don't want it to and refuses to when I do.02:10
mikkov_ might have some reasoning02:10
GAN800robink, ~wikipedia dst02:10
GAN800Stupid fkb again02:10
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dystopiaBerlin is on GMT+102:18
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mikkov_during dst +202:19
mikkov_GMT was deprecated some 30 years ago02:20
dystopiawhat is the time in london?02:22
dystopiathis is the current time in berlin:02:22
dystopiaWed Sep 17 01:23:16 CEST 200802:22
guentherBerlin is UTC +1, currently UTC +2 due to dailight saving.02:23
guentherLondon is UTC. ;)02:23
guentherSo, right now... +010002:23
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guentherHelsinki, btw, is UTC +2, thus +0300 now due to daylight saving time.02:25
guentherSame for Instanbul. :)02:25
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dystopiai get it, but i assumed the timezone, like for example CEST, would automatically take DST into account02:26
dystopiaso CEST (and if DST is in effect its +1) that how i always counted; wrong02:27
guentherIf you have that S in the timezone name... yes02:27
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dystopiawithout S its correct?02:27
guentherCEST is central european summer time02:27
dystopiaahh i see02:28
dystopiaCET or CEST02:28
guentherSame as CET. Just the other half of the year.02:28
dystopiaand if you use GMT+1 this isn't possible with +S02:28
guentherI can't memorize these acronyms anyway.02:29
guentherI use timezone offsets internally. :)02:29
dystopiathats why i prefer GMT+1 etc02:29
guentherUTC +102:29
guentherGMT is deprecated :)02:29
GAN800GMT is dead02:30
dystopiaand i counted from london, so if london is in summer time and so am i, no need to take DST into account02:30
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guentherYou rarely need to anyway.02:30
guentherMost countries do have DST.02:30
dystopiabut the DST goes into effet on different times throuhout the world02:31
mikkov_these countries don't have DST
guentherDiffers a week or two, occasionally. But other than that time, it's safe to simply drop the DST and just use timezone offsets.02:31
dystopiafew years ago i almost missed an airplane due to that02:32
* lcuk would rather walk around the airport for 4 hours than ever risk that chance02:32
guentherDST change already in effect, though you didn't know because "yours" isn't?02:32
lcuki have my nokia, i can be entertained :)02:32
mikkov_isn't whole EU changing DST at the time now?02:33
lcuki think im ready now by the way02:33
mikkov_at the same time02:33
guentherdunno, possibly02:33
guentherEU and US don't, that I know...02:34
guentherOh, and that some US states changed it recently.02:34
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guentherCaused some major trouble with PIM software...02:34
dystopiaguenther: exactly02:35
guentherRead: All appointments off by 1 hour.02:35
guentherThat was fun. :)02:35
dystopiai always use that excuse when i'm late on appt but it gets old quickly for some reason02:35
guentherheh :)02:36
dystopia"my PDA was broken"02:36
robinkGAN800, guenther: Thanks; good to know.02:36
guentherI was effected only indirectly by that change. Dealt with lots of users...02:36
guentherdystopia: yeah, you can use that a few times02:37
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dystopiamust be hell experiencing that same problem again and again02:37
guentherJust be careful to use it a week, and then let a couple months pass before you use it again. ;)02:37
Veggen<---wasjust out on town with a large (200 million dollar) customer, a vendor and an agenda.02:38
Veggenwas weird.02:38
dystopiamt other excuse is that i couldnt find my house keys02:38
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dystopiaalthough i had to use that only once thus far :0)02:38
Veggenok, customer was drunk and might not have as much power as he says he has :)02:39
* dystopia grins02:39
guenther$ ps axw | grep [/]hildon-desktop | wc -l02:40
guentherIs that normal?02:40
dystopiaat least he wasn't on cocaine02:40
guentherStraight after boot.02:40
dystopiadon't know, but here 2 as well02:40
mikkov_guenther: it's normal02:40
GAN800er, grep and the real hildon-desktop?02:40
dystopiathe processes id are following up too02:41
guentherGAN800: No, that's what the [] is for. :)02:41
guentherNot counting grep.02:41
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dystopiai also have 2 hildon-input-method, also PID in sequence02:41
guentherdystopia: exactly02:41
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guentherok, cool, thanks guys02:41
guentherSo that's not my crashing desktop issue.02:42
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guentheralready ponder a re-flash02:42
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Veggendystopia: nah. but it was still weird. We're a vendor, another part of our company is a vendor at a different level, and some of the business of this London trip might affect that, cause they might be buying something of someone else instead of us (them), and give us (another part) the maintenance job.02:44
* dystopia is getting a headache already02:47
Veggendystopia: so we just had a hotel lobby chat that I'm not sure that we should have had. but we were drunk, he was drunk, are we excused? I dunno :)02:48
dystopiamaybe such leads to regaining confidence :0)02:49
guentherVeggen: harmonically?02:50
guentherNo disagreements, just fun?02:50
Veggenguenther: harmonically.02:50
guentherThen it sounds like whatever the topic was, it was right.02:50
guentherMakes customers stay. ;)02:51
VeggenI hope so :)02:51
dystopiaone time at FOSDEM, we (linux developers) went out to dinner to a restaurant some openbsd guy recommended, they came later, and after we ate while they were still ating, we saw a cockroach.. enjoy your meal and see you tomorow ;-)02:51
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timelesscan someone please help me?03:51
timelessi'm getting an error from some part of apt03:51
timelessi'm doing: apt-get update03:52
timelessand i get: Unable to parse package file /path/something-armel_Packages03:52
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elektwhoa 4 minute lag03:56
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lcukcrashanddie, you about?04:27
timelesssp3000: ok, script seems to be doing something :)04:27
lcuktimeless, are you goin to the summit04:27
timelessi fly in a few hours04:28
lcuki dont leave for another 24h04:28
timelessan assistant booked the flight for me04:28
lcukor lookin forward to it04:29
timelessabout giving a presentation w/o any prep?04:29
timelessoh sure, i look forward to it04:29
timelessi can't wait for one of us to be skewered04:29
lcukheh, ive not written mine either yet :)04:29
timelessdo you know anything about the place where the presentations will be?04:29
lcukbut i know exactly the path im taking this time04:29
lcuknot a damned clue04:29
lcuki know some of the people setting it up have been in04:29
timelessanyway, my script is doing "something"04:29
lcukwe have requested a special display stand - an overhead camera for showing nokias on big screen04:30
timelessah, good, i was wondering about that04:30
lcuki *need* that ;)04:30
timelesswhat about support for powerpoint/whiteboards?04:30
* timeless should find a device w/ a modern version of the platform04:31
lcukBYOLT even04:31
lcukthey will have one there a desktop machine setup for presentations though i believe04:31
lcukbring your own04:31
lcukbut cant be guaranteed i dont think04:31
lcukat linuxtag everyone took their own04:32
timelessok, what if i just want a whiteboard instead of using a laptop? :)04:32
lcukanyway, its bed time04:32
* timeless isn't really a fan of powerpoint04:33
lcukcrashanddie, if you wake up, check your mails, theres a package waiting04:33
timelessit should be packing time for me04:33
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lcukhave a safe journey timeless, ill see you there04:34
* timeless wonders if they provide name tags04:34
timelessand thanks :)04:34
lcukbest had do - i want a collection04:35
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gregorovius_sorry, my connection dropped, did my question make it through?04:45
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gregoroviusis it possible that the upnp plugin for canola is making it stay more active and consume more battery even in offline mode?05:17
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timelesscool new problem05:42
timelessi'm not allowed to get sources for closed binaries :)05:42
summatusmentisgo figure05:42
timelesssummatusmentis: i'm inside nokia's firewall05:42
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summatusmentisoh, you normally have access?05:43
summatusmentisthat's different05:43
timelesswell, um... depends on your definition of normally05:43
timelesshistorically these packages were posted as binaries w/o sources05:43
timelessnow there are source packages and the build system builds them05:43
timelessbut it limits who's allowed to get the source packages05:43
summatusmentisI see05:45
timelessit's actually progress05:46
summatusmentisyou couldn't get the source before, you can't get the source now... how is that progress?05:47
timelessat least the same system that builds most packages builds their packages05:47
timelesswhich means there are fewer variables in the build system05:47
summatusmentisthat's fair :)05:47
timelessi should figure out what to do05:49
timelessbecause right now those packages give 0 representation05:49
timelesswhere it might be nice to at least ICK05:49
timelessdpkg-source: error: cannot open .dsc file ./libgc_1:6.6-2osso2.dsc: No such file or directory05:49
timeless"that's not right" :(05:50
timelessodd, libncurces-dev isn't listed as a missing package here05:53
* timeless wonders if it was already fixed05:53
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timelessactually, i think it's about time for me to go to the airport05:56
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timelessok, interesting failure case:06:38
timelessrsync: open "/home/timeless/xref/autoconf/tests/" failed: Permission denied (13)06:38
timelessthe file is -r--r--r--06:39
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dystopiarsync is a lying scumbag:-)06:43
timelessnah, it's doing what i told it to do06:44
timelessthe question then is... why did i tell it to do that?06:44
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* timeless cries07:14
* gregorovius hugs timeless07:15
gregoroviuspoor dev...07:15
timelessmy script collected something like 150/900 items07:16
timeless175/950 v 400 for the previous script07:17
timelessso instead of doubling, i've lost more than 50%07:17
gregoroviuswhich way is the good way?07:17
timeless950 is what i want07:17
gregorovius(i've no idea what you're doing)07:17
timelessalthough i'm not sure that's a correct number07:18
timelessmostly bigger is better07:18
gregoroviusups, gotta go07:18
gregoroviusgood luck with those numbers growing =)07:18
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timelessi'm making something like
timelessexcept for something after chinook07:19
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Pavlovhey, is it possible to replace the screen on an n810?07:51
Pavlovlike, when the lcd seems to have gotten cracked on the one you use?07:52
dystopiacontact nokia support to get it fixed07:52
johnx_funny you should mention that...I just saw a place with n810 parts referenced on ITT. I can't vouch for them, though:
Pavlovdunno how it got cracked but its right through the screen07:54
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* Stskeeps yawns loudly08:47
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Stskeepsmorning qwerty1208:47
qwerty12hi Stskeeps08:47
Stskeeps <- worst hack ever08:48
Stskeepsa debian package that can be built without dpkg-buildpackage, just debian/rules binary binary-arch08:48
qwerty12lol :P, dpkg-deb in a rules file... :P08:49
Stskeepswell that's actually indirectly what's done really08:49
Stskeepsdh_builddeb does similar things08:49
Stskeepsand a rules files is actually deep down just a makefile08:49
* qwerty12 also just realised that that isn't a debian rules file. /me wakes up :)08:49
qwerty12Oh, wait, now I see the title. I'm wasted :P08:50
Stskeepsim having breakfast right now too to wake up :P08:50
qwerty12I'll have to resort to whacking myself with a bottle :P08:51
qwerty12+ I'm attempting to modify some code. If you have my "skills", not a good idea @ this time >.<08:52
Stskeepsbut my build-on-tablet process is much saner now.. apt-get -d source <non-free module>, tar -zxf <non-free-module>*.tar.gz, cd <non-free-module>, debian/rules binary binary-arch08:52
Stskeepsand just requires make as an dependancy08:52
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dystopiahello rm_you, you lil wardriver :-)09:20
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rm_youheading to osim now >_>09:43
Stskeepshave fun09:44
Stskeepsreport live ;)09:44
dystopiaenjoy rm_you!!09:45
dystopiahow do you like berlin thus far ?09:46
dystopia(probably drunk already ehh? :P)09:46
dystopiaari's talk is in 3 hrs09:46
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aquatixmorning all10:17
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Jaffalo from OSiM10:30
jotthello jaffa. so you got wlan for live coverage? :)10:32
JaffaIf you want to know, apparently, about the next Maemo device (maybe not called an "Internet Tablet"), look at the flood of patches sent last night to linux-kernel10:33
jsmanriqueJaffa: is there any streaming from the conference10:33
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JaffaNot from OSiM, AFAIK10:33
JaffaI'll be typing here during Ari Jaaksi's keynote, though.10:34
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jsmanriqueJaffa: ok, it is at 11:45, isn't it?10:35
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jsmanriqueJaffa: so, maemo "next device" is more than a rumour?10:35
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Jaffajsmanrique: 09:55 \âGMT - about 1.25 hours10:39
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KhertanHi !10:40
jsmanriquehi Khertan10:40
jsmanriqueJaffa: we need a bingo card, similar to Apple's keynote ones :-D10:40
KhertanJaffa: do you have a link of this commit web log ?10:41
jsmanriqueJaffa: yes, is there a link to that commits?10:41
Jaffano, not found it yet - bit tricky to pin it down on an $81010:41
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jsmanriquemaybe fremantle will be presented today10:41
JaffaShould be10:42
GeneralAntillesThat's normally what I watch.10:42
inzJaffa, that's one cool flood, especially the bits like "Fixed OMAP3 version check" and "debobs support for OMAP3430"10:43
Khertanthx GeneralAntilles10:43
rm_youat osim booth10:43
GeneralAntillesrm_you, get a demo going with VGB and a Wiimote. :D10:43
Jaffarm_you: with Reggie and rogers in Android keynote10:43
Khertanmany OMAP3 fixes ...10:44
JaffaSome of the audio layer may have been closed because of lots of stuff in there which'd make sense only in a certain context10:45
KhertanARM: OMAP: Split omap2 cpu detection into 24xx and 34xx specific functions10:45
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jsmanriqueand some gumstix and beagleboard related stuff...10:49
GeneralAntillesYeah, lotta that.10:50
GeneralAntillesThough most of that hacking isn't in mainline yet.10:50
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GeneralAntillesSGX == PowerVR10:52
JaffaRumour here so far: including some phone component, massively more powerful, 32GB storage, massively multimedia oriented, not called an "Internet Tablet"10:53
jsmanriqueJaffa: Maemo phone?10:54
johnx_GeneralAntilles, remember wwan != phone10:54
GeneralAntillesjohnx_, anything cellular is bad news in my book.10:54
JaffaAs long aas it's not more expensive, more restrictive and still has BT connection as Tier110:54
lcukand a kb10:55
GeneralAntillesI'd rather not have the keyboard, myself. ;)10:55
Jaffatsk, shush you10:55
infobotsomebody said flashing was
dystopiaJaffa: thank you for the update!10:56
Jaffawill get my laptop out for the Maemo keynote fror faster typing10:56
GeneralAntillesJaffa, watch, it'll be a UMPC with an Atom.10:57
johnx_GeneralAntilles, with an n96 glued to the back :D10:57
GeneralAntilles"That'll be $2499 please"10:58
GeneralAntillesjohnx_, they'll provide a little 3-inch USB dongle for the N96 for faster tethering. ;)10:58
GeneralAntillesrm_you, have you converted all the demo units to only demo Advanced Backlight yet?10:59
jsmanriqueno, please, keep the price low :-D10:59
* Jaffa now has to associate rm_you nick, name and face11:00
GeneralAntillesJaffa, go hit him with a stick for me.11:00
jsmanriqueis there any info from nokia related sources about new devices?11:00
jsmanriquemaybe, a good camera?11:00
GeneralAntillesjsmanrique, no.11:00
GeneralAntilles"Nokia does not announce future hardware plans"11:00
JaffaTwo hours (sorry, got time wrong)11:01
GeneralAntillesBasically, like got a lot of incredibly irritating cheeky laughter from a rat in Texas11:01
johnx_jsmanrique, just lurk and watch or dig through the logs for the channel11:01
GeneralAntillesand a lot of OMAP3-related commits to linux-omap from @nokia folks.11:01
GeneralAntilless/Basically, like/Basically, we've/11:01
Stskeepsanything popping up on freedesktop stuff? (xorg)11:01
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, I suppose it's a possibility, I haven't been paying attention, though.11:02
JaffaOh, other rumour: no new device before xmas11:02
rm_youJaffa: where are you? still android?11:02
GeneralAntillesJaffa, that one makes sense.11:02
jsmanriqueJaffa: yes, that would make sense11:02
GeneralAntillesOMAP3430 ES3.0 isn't shipping 'til November11:03
Jaffarm_you: at front, now T-Mobile talking about how cool open stuff is11:03
GeneralAntillesand they've got to actually get it into the devices before they ship.11:03
jsmanriquenew "devices" should come with "better" camera...11:03
GeneralAntillesPlus, everybody and his brother is going to be clamoring for the new OMAP3 silicon once its out.11:03
jsmanriqueso, first there should be a new "OS" update11:04
JaffaFremantle won't be released without device, IMHO11:04
GeneralAntillesThere'll be Fremantle alphas and betas in some form11:04
GeneralAntillesbut I'm with Jaffa, it wont be coming without a new tablet.11:04
rm_yougonna have to move to ad-hoc to set up the mediaserv demo, so i'll have to drop offline11:05
rm_youthis network is blocking like all traffic11:05
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JaffaOooh, there's going to be a mediaserv demo on the stand?11:06
rm_youi told you i would ;P11:06
* Jaffa == proud (had forgotten ;-))11:07
rm_youi seem to remember asking you if i could do it ;p11:07
JaffaI remember now11:07
rm_youanyway, dropping off to get that set up11:07
johnx_rm_you, good luck!11:07
* johnx_ heads off to work11:08
jsmanriquewhy should fremantle come with a new device?11:08
rm_youJaffa: drop by when you can :P11:08
Jaffacos all new OS releases have11:08
Jaffarm_you: will do (got my lanyard already)11:08
jsmanriqueit works (or should work) in actual N810 devices (so, N800 too?)11:08
jsmanriqueJaffa: yes, that's true11:09
Jaffabigger marketing splash11:09
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jsmanriqueanyone knows if OH people (Mathew Allum i.e.) will be in Maemo Summit?11:10
jsmanriquehow has Intel buying OH has affected that?11:10
mgedminwasn't there a list of attendees somewhere?11:11
Jaffaon the main summit (non wiki) page11:11
mgedminMatthew Allum is there11:11
jsmanriqueyes, I know11:12
jsmanriquejust asking for an update, nothing else...11:12
JaffaI'm sure he'll be asked11:13
Stskeepssomeone whack him for _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_INPUT, as that makes most on screen input be monopolized to matchbox-wm11:13
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, any chance you could push XChat to Extras and just not the language packs for now?11:15
Stskeepswhen is the talk btw? (in how many hours)11:15
mgedminGeneralAntilles: promote, you mean?11:15
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mgedminsounds like a great idea!11:15
mgedminum, is that possible?11:15
mgedmindoes promotion work on the binary package level, or the source package level?11:15
JaffaStskeeps: 1.5. Stay here for live updates11:15
Jaffamgedmin: binary11:16
Stskeepsmeh, means i'll have to skip lunch. hunger strike for new tablet11:16
Stskeeps(.. or i could bring my tablet, hmm..)11:16
Jaffa(well, both - no recompilation)11:16
mgedmin"ending in name"?11:16
Jaffa"Interrnet Tablet" possibly being dropped11:17
Stskeepsit'll now be Token Ring Tablet11:17
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, push, promote, same thing. ;)11:17
jsmanriquedoes anyone knows qik service?11:17
mgedmin*sigh* maemo still slow as molasses11:17
jsmanriqueif someone is at OSiM with a mobile phone with video camera and wlan, perhaps someone could publish a stream11:17
mgedminand I don't even know what molasses are11:18
mgedminGeneralAntilles: promoted11:18
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GeneralAntillesInteresting that the latest round of DSLRs have 720p11:23
GeneralAntillesand a 14.7 megapixel consumer cam for $40011:24
GeneralAntillesHellooooo, noise city.11:24
Stskeepsthere should be a hunt for people with obvious unreleased tablets on OSiM ;)11:25
GeneralAntillesThere's a "preview" presentation during the Summit from an @nokia person11:26
GeneralAntillesWe've decided that lcuk is going to mug him for whatever tablet he's got.11:26
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keesjthe standard trick is to listen to bt device names11:30
sneakretassuming they're discoverable11:31
Pavlovsounds nice11:31
* Pavlov should have gone11:31
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GeneralAntillesHa, stupid people moaning about MicroUSB being less durable than MiniUSB.11:33
Alystairwait another standard?11:34
Stskeepskeesj: yeah, especially since the tablets are called Nokiasomething11:34
GeneralAntillesIt's smaller and more durable than MiniUSB11:34
GeneralAntillesAlystair, the N810 uses it.11:34
GeneralAntillesMicroUSB is on the right.11:34
Alystairoh wow11:34
Alystairit IS a universal standard right? not another phone-charger like situation :)11:35
GeneralAntillesIt's a USB standard, yes.11:35
AlystairThen I'm all for it! Hooray.11:35
GeneralAntillesThe only real problem with it is that not many devices use it yet11:36
GeneralAntillesso it's hard to find cables.11:36
GeneralAntillesWhereas I've got about 6 MiniUSB cables just lying around behind my desk here. ;)11:37
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mgedminafaiu all new phones use it11:38
mgedminor at least are supposed to11:38
Jaffa1 hour to go11:45
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* Jaffa just saw someone in the audience with a lanyard put away a Psion 5mx.11:50
JaffaTicks all my boxes ;-)11:50
Stskeepsi had an old ass psion organizer.. i wonder where i left it11:52
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Stskeepsit worked still after what 10 years though11:52
GeneralAntillesNewton was my thing11:52
Stskeepsi always kinda wanted a newton in my childhood :P11:53
BlafaselHow's osim so far?11:56
GeneralAntillesThe Newton is pretty awesome.11:56
BlafaselAnd is there any plan for a pre-summit gathering?11:56
BlafaselTomorrow night?11:57
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GeneralAntillesThat guy's in for a fun time.12:04
KhertanRahhh ! I hate google docs !12:06
GeneralAntilles50 minutes12:06
sneakretwhat'd google docs do to you?12:07
GeneralAntillesKilled his family, clearly.12:08
sneakretI meant besides that.12:08
Khertanit have just kill my presentation12:08
Khertanfor py2deb12:08
sneakretwhen are you presenting?12:08
Khertanthe pdf generated isn't the same as what i can see in google docs12:08
Khertansneakret: i ll present a new version of mCalendar and py2deb in light session12:09
sneakretNew mCalendar? Cool!12:09
Khertani don't speak english well enough to made an interesting presentation ...12:09
Khertanmore than 10 min12:09
Khertanrahah .... now google docs insert interline between line !12:10
GeneralAntillesKhertan, just give it in French!12:10
yacoobwhat are you people ticking to?12:11
GeneralAntillesJaffa, did you see my email on -community?12:11
GeneralAntillesyacoob, Ari's presentation at OSiM World.12:11
KhertanGeneralAntilles: yep but i want that there is more than 1 people at my presentations :12:13
Khertanoups ... google docs now is freeze12:13
GeneralAntillesAlternatively, give it in English, but pad it out with interspersed violent cursing in French.12:13
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KhertanGeneralAntilles: for a lightning session i ll be able to do it in english12:14
AStormhmm, how can I find out which repo is blocking my update?12:14
GeneralAntillesCheck the log?12:14
GeneralAntillesand by "update" you mean?12:14
GeneralAntillesRefreshing the repos?12:15
AStormright now, updating seems to have hanged at 1,67 MB (yes, I don't do that often)12:15
AStormwhere is the log?12:15
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GeneralAntillesIn the menu in Application manager12:15
GeneralAntillesAlternatively, just run an apt-get update as root in XTerm12:15
AStormi'll do that then12:15
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mgedminoh, you12:18
mgedmindown again???12:18
* mgedmin shakes his head12:18
BlafaselI'm really looking forward to 2 days of irl lurking ;)12:19
GeneralAntillesAStorm, fwiw, the repos are working fine here.12:19
AStormyes, they are12:19 is not etc.12:19
AStormI have to fix these12:19
AStormwhere are they now?12:19
GeneralAntillesI'd just delete it.12:20
GeneralAntillesIt's not really usable in Diablo.12:20
GeneralAntillesOh, time to upgrade. :P12:20
AStormI'm waiting till Canola works well with Diablo12:20
GeneralAntillesIt doesn't?12:20
AStormand, i'd have to redo all my hacks12:20
AStormthis is work ;P12:21
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GeneralAntillesPlanet seems to be down.12:21
AStormhopefully, there is lms-ogg12:22
AStormNO. there's none12:23
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AStormthey should be kicked really hard12:23
GeneralAntilleskulve just updated ogg-support for Diablo.12:23
AStormwhat is the use of ogg-support, if there's no lms-ogg?12:23
AStormcanola won't see the files12:23
GeneralAntillesGo prod #canola12:23
kulveogg-support tries to add ogg-support for n8x0. Not for some special 3rd party app, like Canola12:25
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GeneralAntillesAStorm, now just wait for it not to be 5 AM in Brazil. ;)12:26
AStorm - is this down? :P12:26
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yergaAStorm, complete is down or very overloaded ;)12:28
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AStorm /., dug and buried? ;)12:30
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rm_youback. keynote in like 20 min >_>12:36
GeneralAntillesWe demand a live video feed.12:36
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GeneralAntillesFigure it out.12:36
johnxrm_you,  madness :D12:37
brontideI'm here12:37
Meksome live typing in here whatever Ari says would be okay for me too :P12:37
brontideI'll summarize the interesting bits12:37
GeneralAntillesbrontide, OK, we've got you and Jaffa.12:38
GeneralAntillesYour summaries will be scored.12:38
trenkawhen he is talking?12:38
GeneralAntillesThe winner wont receive 50 lashings.12:38
GeneralAntillestrenka, just under 20 minutes.12:38
* Jaffa is in place. Laptop connected.12:38
johnxGeneralAntilles, maybe give the winner o karma point ;p12:38
mgedmin is emptyish12:38
JaffaRunning later.12:38
infobotJaffa meant: Running late.12:39
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, Twitter sucks12:39
Jaffa11:30 talk runs for 25 mins and hasn't started yet.12:39
* brontide is going on 24 hours with no sleep, so he might nod off if it's not too exciting12:39
Jaffabrontide: you in the room?12:39
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* robink upgraded his kernel modules and now modules.dep is missing and module-init-tools conflicts with BusyBox.12:40
* Jaffa is down at the front, on the right (was on the left before)12:40
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brontideyes, mac striped shirt12:41
rm_you is there much space? i am still at the booth. need to head over there12:41
Jaffarm_you: loads.12:41
brontidelappy, or NIT?12:41
robinkOh, the keynote is about to begin.12:42
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Steve_BHello, im at the conference too!12:42
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mib_p5x2ezcuk_wohave i missed the keynote?12:44
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lcuk_workbit better12:44
lcuk_workthanks Steve_B12:44
* brontide found him12:44
rm_youlcuk: !12:44
lcuk_workrm_you !!12:45
* lcuk_work is gonna see you in a ocuple of days12:45
Steve_BThats ok lcuk, what did i do?12:45
* lcuk_work makes typos in RL as well12:45
lcuk_workyou answered my question12:45
lcuk_worki came in with a stupid  nick12:45
Steve_BAhh ok :-)12:46
Steve_BIm at the conference, but unable to go to the keynote12:46
lcuk_workrm_you: can you get ari to postpone the keynote - i want liqbase to come first before the rug is swept from under it12:46
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Steve_BDid you get a hold of him lcuk?12:49
JaffaLights are dimming12:50
lcuk_workhold of who? - cos im in england and hes in germany12:50
lcuk_workooooh jaffa12:50
JaffaThis is Azingo first; 25 mins - unless they've changed the agenda due to the late running12:50
Steve_BRm_you, on here i mean12:50
lcuk_work"this is kermit the frog reporting live from OSiM12:50
brontidegotta sign up for the pub quiz12:50
JaffaNope: this is Azingo12:50
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JaffaYou'll all have to be patient. ;-p12:52
ptman"last internet tablet" == phone with maemo?12:52
rm_youwtf. ok we're sstanding in the back...12:52
ptmanor rather, not ==, but =>12:52
lcuk_workrm_you: you are still closer than most of us12:53
rm_youk well, azingo it is12:54
Jaffalcuk_work: you're coming over in about 20 mins, tho?12:55
lcuk_workno, i set off at 6am UK time tomorrow morning12:55
lcuk_worknot as early as last time12:55
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JaffaAh, of course.12:56
lcuk_worki was at the airport by 3am then12:56
* Jaffa is half sleep himself ;-)12:56
Steve_BFor an event starting at 9am?12:56
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lcuk_workno, im arriving at 11:30ish thursday morning for a 9am thing on friday..12:57
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Steve_BMaemo summit12:57
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JaffaMaemo's jist got its first namecheck - in a non-Nokia presentation12:58
GeneralAntillesWhat does Azingo do, anyway?12:59
brontideI'm still trying to figure that out12:59
lcuk_workmobile ui stack ontop of linux12:59
GeneralAntilles"Azingo, formerly Celunite, provides next-generation mobile phone software that delivers Internet-enabled, rich user experiences to entertain, inform and enrich the lives of individuals worldwide. Azingo uniquely offers a one-stop solution for commercializing new mobile phone products that significantly reduce development costs and shorten delivery schedules for silicon vendors, handset manufacturers and operators."12:59
lcuk_workclosed source icing ontop of our cake?13:00
Steve_BSounds like marketing speak!13:00
JaffaAt least they're LiMo-based.13:00
lcuk_worki should never have listened to GLaDOS, the cake was a lie13:00
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Steve_BWhat is liqbase?13:03
Jaffaliqbase is shiny13:03
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lcuk_workliqbase is shiny++13:04
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GeneralAntilleslcuk_work, it's too bad you don't have a URL to hand out. ;)13:04
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lcuk_workim at work13:04
lcuk_worknormally i have :P13:04
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lcuk_workbut you mean a proper one13:04
GeneralAntillesand by URL, I mean a website for liqbase to advertise at the summit. :P13:04
lcuk_worki was thinking of giving you copy tonight but i havent got time13:04
Steve_BIm on my n810 so cant click the link13:04
lcuk_workit was all in my head - i only finished principle code at about 2am :S13:05
lcuk_worktap n hold13:05
lcuk_workor search youtube for it13:05
GeneralAntillesSteve_B, why can't you click the link?13:05
Steve_BIt wont open, not enough memory13:05
Italodancewhat's the screen size of Archos?13:05
* brontide is starting to doze off13:06
johnxItalodance, which archos?13:07
lcuk_workhas crashanddie been on this mornin?13:07
rm_youlol GW Bush jokes13:07 was the same IT!13:07
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Steve_BTyping on the n810 is painful13:08
johnxtry tapping on thf13:09
rm_youslightly, yes13:09
johnx...screen of an n800. way more painful13:09
rm_youi could whip out my bluetooth keyboard ;p13:09
Steve_BAhh thats probably true13:09
rm_youah yeah. sorry n800 screen is me lol13:10
jottso, where are the pictures and videos? :)13:10
rm_youit is kinda blah13:10
lcuk_work!OI! rm_you, you will get arrested if you whip yours out - especially at a big conference13:10
povbotlcuk_work: Error: "OI!" is not a valid command.13:10
* johnx kills time at work waiting for something to do.13:10
* lcuk_work laffs at silly povbot13:10
rm_youjott: err i can post a horrible n800 cam pic :p13:10
brontideI'm wondering why he is telling us to use standard html/js ... aren't they selling something?13:10
rm_youlol lcuk13:11
GeneralAntillesS'too bad somebody didn't do a ustream feed.13:11
lcuk_workbrontide: for a mobile device, isnt that the point: you CAN use standard if you use their framework13:11
rm_youi just paid 3,60€ for a tiny glass of coke >_<13:11
lcuk_workrm_you is streaming into a plantpot in the corner of the room13:11
GeneralAntillesEUROPEAN conference food prices?13:12
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lcuk_workand how much for the flight from america and conference particiaption?13:12
rm_youlol i didn't pay that tho13:12
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lcuk_workso 3.60 is very cheap for an intercontinental flight+ticket :D13:13
brontideor any offline tech + fast js13:13
Blafaselrm_you: Ouch13:13
JaffaAzingo is wrapping up13:13
* brontide still doesn't get azingo's talk13:14
rm_youlol i guess >_>13:14
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rm_youooo he's wrapping up. now nokia?13:14
BlafaselI hope the prices on the summit are better.. ;)13:14
brontidewho is this Ari guy anyways  ;-)13:14
Jaffabrontide: it *seems* to boil down to a wWebKit renderer and some  and some dev tooling13:14
rm_youhopefully all this talk of flasg based stuff will lead to us getting  better / faster linux flash support13:16
jott and :)13:16
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lcuk_workits another "we cant do full youtube live in browser" system:     "Azingo’s Web 2.0 video application enables users to interact with videos"13:19
brontidethey do say *fast*13:19
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* brontide needs sleep first / fast same diff13:19
JaffaAzingo guy has finished.13:20
JaffaAri is taking the stage.13:21
rm_youari going on13:21
JaffaHe looks like a short Arnie13:21
brontideslide: Kids with kites13:21
jottso who cat get to his pockets and runs fast? :)13:21
JaffaOperating in two diffeerent worlds: suits & t-shirts. Very fruitful collaboration13:22
GeneralAntilleslcuk_work's not there yet, jott. :(13:22
* StsN800 is in lecture with the n800 as a tiny display like when watching games on the go13:22
lcuk_workhey, im not a scally13:22
Jaffa70% of open source development is corporate sponsored13:22
Jaffa(source: FSF)13:22
* lcuk_work isnt sponsored13:22
JaffaSays no product announcement today13:23
rm_youawwwwww no product announcing13:23
GeneralAntillesBoo him off the stage.13:23
Steve_BThats unfortunate13:23
JaffaAnd he's not going to educate any communiteies (/. overreaction reference)13:23
Jaffa80% of device s/w is open source now13:23
t_s_ohmm, is there a browser plugin that reroutes flash videos to mplayer for full screen playback?13:23
JaffaMaemo is "designed for Internet-optimized multimedia computers"13:24
lcuk_workt_s_o: i would love to make a proper binary plugin for our browser to do just that13:24
lcuk_worksomething that sits between the browser and the actual flash plugin - something we can click to activate, something we can send to mplayer with - something SIMPLE and would make stuff fast.  but ive got no time or knowledge of how to do it ;)13:25
JaffaChoice of desktop widget sets directed products they released using Maemo13:26
* lcuk_work might use the internet on tablet more if that was the case13:26
t_s_oi know there is a plugin to block the flash from automatic play, but its been hit or miss for me in the past. and i keep suspecting that it loads the flash in the background, something that to me is unacceptable on a mobile connection13:26
lcuk_workjaffa - have a vodka shot everytime you hear the words "QT"13:26
brontidewe would all be quite sober at this point13:27
lcuk_workt_s_o: that doesnt block cleanly, it sits inside the javascript on a page and isnt a very clean solution13:27
aquatixt_s_o: you can download .flv's, then play them with whatever player you like?13:27
lcuk_workgive it time brontide13:27
* aquatix has a bash script to download youtube movies13:27
Jaffa3 different platofmrs: S30/40 - mass market phones; Symbian-based phones - smartphones; Maemo platform rooted in Linux, truley community related.13:27
t_s_oaquatix: and other random flv's? youtube i can do with mytube already...13:28
rm_youmyTube works well for doing that with youtube vids13:28
aquatixthere's also some firefox plugins to download flash movie material, so might be portable to microb13:28
t_s_othing is for me that the only use i have for flash on the tablet is the odd video, so a plugin that could detect those and grab them for playback using mplayer or whatever would work much better then the current solution imo13:29
JaffaUI is closed part - their area of differentiation13:29
Jaffa4 generations of Maemo13:29
t_s_obut then maybe i should just grab a archos 5g when it becomes available :P13:29
JaffaNow working on 5th generation13:29
JaffaShowing you some of the highlights13:30
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rm_youomg cellular13:30
JaffaOnline anywhere with cellular connectivity over HSPA13:30
JaffaOMAP 3 processor. HD camera13:30
JaffaBroadband vision of devices.13:30
brontidethere goes the neighborhood13:30
* GeneralAntilles kills self.13:31
rm_youlol crizazy13:31
johnxGeneralAntilles, looks like you lose ;p13:31
JaffaBottom half of slide is cut off13:31
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JaffaOMAP3 will give "huge boost in performance"13:31
rm_youomap3 will be sweet but isn't surprising13:31
timsamoffAri is talking.13:32
GeneralAntillesHD camera is gonna be noisy as hell.13:32
JaffaAccelerated graphics and so forth.13:32
rm_youcellular surprises me a little  bit but makes sense13:32
t_s_ojust hope the price dont spike to much...13:32
Steve_BI dont like the idea of cellular access13:32
GeneralAntillest_s_o, I'm not sure how it can't.13:32
timsamoffAh, Jaffa's already here. :)13:32
GeneralAntillesI really don't want to pay N96 prices. :\13:32
rm_youare these not powerpoint but physical slides?!13:33
t_s_oGeneralAntilles: indeed13:33
GeneralAntillestimsamoff, and rm_you and brontide. ;)13:33
brontideneither do I13:33
johnxhd just means 1280*720 or highr...13:33
* aquatix demands a gsm chip!13:33
JaffaNokia is now gold sponsor of the Linux Foundation13:33
timsamoffHa! Cool.13:33
GeneralAntillesjohnx, yeah, but HD isn't stills13:33
t_s_oi got my N800 nice and cheap used. but if we are looking at used HTC phone prices then no go what so ever13:33
GeneralAntillesIt's video, which == noise.13:33
JaffaNokia contributed code today for 3G/HSPA cellular connectivity for oMAP3 to Linux kernel13:33
aquatixt_s_o: heh, i prefer having a tablet alongside my cellphone too13:33
timsamoffI prefer having a tablet with a charged battery. :(13:34
rm_youlol tim13:35
GeneralAntillesBesides, HSDPA is gonna be ridiculously expensive in the states.13:35
GeneralAntilles$50 at least.13:35
Jaffa(So, cellular layer open?)13:35
rm_youalso truth13:35
GeneralAntillesI can't afford a 2nd cable bill.13:35
wizaGeneralAntilles: so like 5 euros?13:35
Jaffa(gone very laggy)13:35
rm_youheh qt is in the maemo circle13:35
JaffaAnd SQLite13:36
t_s_orm_you: i didnt expect anything else13:36
GeneralAntillesYeah, like, duh. :P13:36
rm_youwell yeah, been using sqlite for a while no?13:36
rm_yout_s_o: yeah...13:37
Jaffa(lots of projects have - does media-scanner us it?)13:38
JaffaNokia still struggling with working in the open. Still working on it13:38
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timsamoffAlways will unless Maemo spun off.13:38
JaffaMore on Maemo 5 in the Maemo DevSesh13:38
JaffaPlug for Maemo Summit13:39
Steve_BThats the bit im allowed in, hooray!13:39
JaffaHe's forgotten where it is13:39
mikkov_nobody is forcing you to use cellular. Device will be more expensice though13:39
jottme too :) woo13:39
GeneralAntillesmikkov_, if it's in the device, I'm paying for it.13:39
JaffaNow questions.13:39
GeneralAntillesFCC certifications, hardware, software support13:39
Steve_BJott, are you in berlin?13:39
GeneralAntillesthose things all cost money.13:40
jottSteve_B: yes.13:40
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JaffaQ: Will Nokia have longterm committment to Maemo in the longterm, with the Qt purchase & Symbian opening. Is there a longterm roadmap?13:40
JaffaA: Yes.13:40
mikkov_GeneralAntilles: yeah, but no monthly bills if you don't want them13:40
hrwsomeone has e1000e network card?13:40
JaffaQ: 3G & HSPA also imply voice? Or just data?13:40
lcuk_workyes, but you have to pay $140 extra to get it13:40
JaffaA: Today just talking about data.13:40
GeneralAntillesmikkov_, don't care, I don't want to pay for cellular. Period.13:41
StsN800timsamoff, huge thanks for the logo btw13:41
JaffaThere will be a new generation, let's see what they bring.13:41
JaffaThis is a headsup today, not an announcement.13:41
lcuk_workGeneralAntilles: chill, see what they offer before you bitch - its new and improved13:41
JaffaTalking about releasing early & showing the direction.13:41
brontideUnless they are really competitive on price, this will be a non-starter for me13:41
JaffaHe finally seems to get it.13:41
Jaffa^(                            )13:42
JaffaTelling you as soon as possible about some of the developments.13:42
GeneralAntilleslcuk_work, HSDPA is bad news in my book. Period. :)13:42
* jott hopes for a dev program :)13:42
JaffaQ: When will th efifth generation come out? What about the slow microb browser?13:42
aquatixGeneralAntilles: otoh, nokia makes loads of cellphones, maybe hsdpa chip is cheap for them13:42
timsamoff4 Real.13:43
Steve_BUnless they release two versions, one with and one without?13:43
GeneralAntillesaquatix, hardware cost is just a small portion of the total cost.13:43
JaffaA: When the time is right, we will tell you. I recognise the performance issues, we are working on it. I'm sure they'll be improved signifcantly.13:43
rm_youlol complaining about microb.fennec is faster? not imo >_>13:43
aquatixGeneralAntilles: so, what's your problem?13:43
GeneralAntillesaquatix, FCC, software support13:43
jsmanriqueJaffa: nice answer...13:43
GeneralAntillesAll those things cost money.13:43
aquatixGeneralAntilles: k13:43
JaffaQ: (gnuite) Will Maemo 5 be compatible with existing devices?13:43
GeneralAntillesWhich means I'm going to be paying for it in the cost of the hardware.13:43
JaffaA: THinking about how to do it. Don't know yet.13:43
JaffaNew hardware may mean new difficulties.13:44
jsmanriqueJaffa: :-D13:44
aquatixGeneralAntilles: fair enough :/13:44
brontide = new hacker edition13:44
timsamoffGood Q, though.13:44
GeneralAntillesBetter be.13:44
jsmanriqueJaffa: and that's even better13:44
lcuk_workbrontide: depending on the ui expected it may be a non starter13:44
JaffaQ: Are there any plans fordiversifying Maemo?13:44
GeneralAntillesThey promised at least 2 rounds of support for each tablet.13:44
rm_youlol  etting short bursts of irc. connection seems to have issues13:44
aquatixmaemo for a cellphone would be interesting13:44
lcuk_workfrom what i recall nokia are fullsteam forward and get adequate performance from new devices without caring about old13:44
JaffaA: No current intentions for promoting to other vendors.13:44
brontideGA, they already provides 2 rounds of support13:45
* lcuk_work thinks building from the ground up will allow all devices to work13:45
JaffaQ: Various logos - including Qt. What's the role of Trolltech within the Maemo story?13:45
GeneralAntillesbrontide, the N810 got 1.13:46
brontidedepends on how you read Diablo13:46
JaffaA;: Currently gtk based. Will also support Qt in future. Eventually, are we going to eventually find some technical merge? We have some plans; but (it sounds like still up in the air)13:46
GeneralAntillesIt's not a round.13:46
GeneralAntillesIt's a minor update.13:46
GeneralAntilles"Feature Upgrade"13:46
aquatixDiablo is just enabling incremental updates13:46
GeneralAntillesSupport round is OS2005, OS2006, OS2007, OS2008, etc.13:46
JaffaGeneralAntilles: I reckon they'll break the promise or hamstring the back support.13:47
JaffaThat's it. It's over.13:47
lcuk_worknow mug him and get hands on the test machine you know he has in his pocket13:47
rm_youwhat is this?13:47
jsmanriquewhat do you expected?13:47
* GeneralAntilles is not super thrilled.13:47
jsmanriqueno device was expected13:48
GeneralAntillesNot cellular garbage.13:48
lcuk_worki think ari just read the n900 thread13:48
* Jaffa is worried about price13:48
lcuk_worknahhh jaffa - look at the pandora - they are talking that spec hardware13:48
jsmanriqueit gets one year to get Carl Zeiss certification13:48
lcuk_workthats what £200?13:48
GeneralAntilleslcuk_work, they don't have cellular13:48
timsamoffDevice discount program?13:48
StsN800GeneralAntilles, in .dk 3g no-voice is actually decently priced13:48
Jaffajsmanrique: A new device has been pre-announced: it will have in-built data connectivity and HD camera and OMAP3.13:48
GeneralAntillesStsN800, yeah, well, I live in the States.13:48
lcuk_workGeneralAntilles: stop bitching, nokia knows how to do data modems13:49
jsmanriqueJaffa: and that's great13:49
timsamoffThis guy's funny.13:49
GeneralAntilleslcuk_work, whatever.13:49
Jaffatimsamoff: helps us, but everyone else may suffer. No point being a developer if the platform is overpriced for end-users.13:49
Steve_BData is pretty expensive in the uk too13:49
* aquatix waits till the price is known13:49
timsamoffToo true, Jaffa.13:49
lcuk_workMaemo internet via sneakernet13:49
brontideWhich means being shackled to a provider13:49
GeneralAntilleslcuk_work, costs add up fast, and the cellular support impacts the platform in software development costs.13:49
aquatixi think nokia won't make the thing more expensive13:50
brontidefor the discount13:50
rm_youso are there plans for lunch?13:50
mikkov_new device will cost at least as much as N95/N96, that's my guess13:50
Jaffarm_you: provided, AIUI13:50
lcuk_workGeneralAntilles: if its ONLY a modem then it can be a blackbox just like the usb dongle modems we get now13:50
timsamoffAlthough, didn't I hear someone say recently that they didn't develop for other users. :p13:50
Steve_BThats what im hoping, im hank marvin13:50
GeneralAntillesaquatix, they'd price themselves out of the market if they did.13:50
Jaffarm_you: getting hungry13:50
Jaffa...and my battery's dying13:50
aquatixGeneralAntilles: so i think you shouldn't worry yet :)13:50
rm_yousame and same lol13:51
brontidethe N95/N96 has an order of magnitude economy of scale13:51
GeneralAntillesCellular is bad juju however you look at it.13:51
JaffaN810 was more pricey than N800, more pricey than 77013:51
rm_youyou outside?13:51
brontidehigher than an n900 will13:51
Jaffarm_you: still at front13:51
timsamoffN1k. N1k!13:51
rm_youthis guy really is hilarious13:51
lcuk_worki, for one, welcome our cellular overlords who give us 24/7 internet without messing with other things13:51
timsamoffCrackin' me up.13:51
GeneralAntilleslcuk_work, more like 5-hour internet.13:51
GeneralAntillesYou wont get always-on with the sized battery we have now.13:52
lcuk_workthats about the same as i get now :)13:52
Jaffalcuk_work: for another 15 quid a month on top of mobile phone bill13:52
GeneralAntillesrm_you, I wouldn't go back to the booth. ;)13:52
rm_youjaffa: should i head outside?13:52
GeneralAntilleslcuk_work, probably less, in fact.13:52
Steve_BJaffa, even then its limited13:52
GeneralAntillesThe N810W is somewhere in the 3-4 hour range.13:52
lcuk_workjaffa, happily pay it if the data comes in quickly enough - i dont want it for "internet" i want to connect to my server13:52
Steve_BTo the amount of data you can download per month13:53
JaffaWind River. 5 Reasons why Open Source Won't Work in Mobile.13:53
Jaffa1) A Linux phone will never be as good as an iPhone13:53
Steve_BFair usage and all that13:53
rm_youah ok stupid irc burst/delays13:53
timsamoffToo flipping funny.13:53
brontide*FSVO "good"13:53
rm_youi love this guy13:53
Steve_BWhats 2?13:53
Jaffahasn't got to 213:54
jott2) We are unable to make good software. :P13:54
lcuk_workjaffa, you type quick :D13:54
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Steve_BYou're still in there?13:54
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Steve_BAhh, i thought you left after the ari talk13:54
Jaffadidn't move quick enough13:55
timsamoffMe hungry too.13:55
KhertanJaffa: 1) A Linux phone will never be as good as an iPhone : FALSE13:55
Steve_BThats unfortunate13:55
rm_yougot stuck lol13:55
brontideKhertan: it's a joke13:55
Khertani know13:55
rm_youKhertan: he's doing logical contradictions point by point13:56
Khertanhow ... there was a keynote ?13:56
JaffaDefinition of good: "There are 15 million units in the market today that a deveoper has to write an app for once, and they *know* they have 15 million builtin customers. And you *cannot* say that today about Linux. Not even 1 million users".13:56
rm_youhe's not actually saying that13:56
brontideno new products, no major changes from what's already happened with maemo.org13:56
rm_youit's the argument he's tryying to counter13:56
timsamoffThis is a really good talk -- people need to discuss these things.13:57
Khertanhum ... this wasn't planned for tomorrow ?13:57
Steve_BIs it lunchtime?13:57
JaffaAri's keynote was today. Honest: I've just watched it.13:57
Khertanthis have change ...13:57
rm_youor use to point out problems13:57
Khertanand i ve see the change13:57
timsamoffI saw Jaffa nodding off.13:58
Khertanarg ... i think i ll see it tomorrow ... this why i come so early in the morning tomorrow13:58
Jaffatimsamoff: heh13:58
Jaffa2) "Symbian's open source announcement has given everyone a false sense of hope"13:58
timsamoffMy battery is red again. Arg. Later everyone.13:59
Khertan2) Symbian sucks !13:59
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Khertan... i ll going to eat ...13:59
* Khertan want that today is tomorrow13:59
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JaffaThe hype surrounding the shift after Ari's keynote which was pitched by the @nokians doesn't *quite* seem to match reality. Maybe an HSPA component /really/ changes the game?14:00
* GeneralAntilles waits for Umptious to come back and edit the wikipedia article.14:00
Jaffa3) "There are too many platform choices and operators insist on hedgin their ebets"14:00
KhertanJaffa: yep Windows Mobile and Symbian should not exist !14:01
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rm_yougah cmon irc... update14:01
brontideFragmentation is preventing Linux from being a real competitor in the marketplace14:02
GeneralAntillesWell, the one good thing is maybe people will finally stop bitching about 3G support.14:02
brontide4) OEM's won't let go legacy code14:02
GeneralAntillesKinda kills the N810W's niche, though.14:03
JaffaWhen/where is the DevSesh? Can't find any ref to it in the Event Guide14:04
Jaffa5) Too many in the mobile value chain just don't get it!14:04
Steve_BJaffa, its not in there14:04
Steve_BIts got a seperate document14:05
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JaffaSteve_B: righto. We probably need to make sure there's soem info about it on the booth14:07
aquatixGeneralAntilles: well, there's HSDPA here, but no wimax14:07
Steve_BIs anyone on the booth now?14:07
Jaffa5 things to do to make open source in mobile work14:07
Jaffa1) Get a new product marketer14:07
Jaffa2) While you're at it, get a new engineering director too14:07
Jaffa3) Stop lookin over your shoulder, start to innovate14:08
* aquatix will do a grep on `Jaffa' tonight :)14:08
Jaffa4) Change your low cost play into a high value play14:08
Jaffa5) Think outside the ohone14:08
rm_youi think i'm supposed to be on the booth >_<14:08
aquatixrm_you: :)14:08
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Steve_BUh oh14:08
lcukrm_you, yes, literally, you should be ON the booth - dancing14:08
rm_youbut i can't just leave on this guy. he's just too awesome14:08
aquatixrm_you: the cancan14:08
aquatixrm_you: then stay :)14:09
lcukaquatix, i was thinking more ooga chacka14:09
rm_youi think jamie went at least...14:09
aquatixlcuk: also a good choice14:09
lcukhe could do village people dance quite well14:09
aquatixlcuk: why do you know? ;)14:10
rm_youlol lcuk. remind me to slap you :P immediately followed by buying you a pint :)14:10
lcuk(m) its fun to stay in the M.A.E.M.O14:10
lcuk:D dont slap me or i might drop my tablet and completely destroy liqbase in the process14:10
brontideSeems like he is talking directly to people like Nokia.14:10
aquatixlcuk: b.a.c.k.u.p.s.14:11
rm_youi can do some swingdance :P14:11
* Jaffa has switched back to N810.14:11
aquatixJaffa: external keyboard?14:11
Jaffascreen & ssh rock14:11
lcukaquatix, technically i have already sent the full source code + binary around the world :)14:11
aquatixlcuk: true14:11
* lcuk has offsite backup14:11
aquatixlcuk: but is that the latest?14:11
rm_youyep. sorta been thinking, is ari watching this? :p14:11
lcukno aquatix - i only mailed it last night after i finished enough for my presentation14:12
aquatixlcuk: ah :)14:12
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lcuki have some bugfixes to do - but i can get them done on the plane14:12
lcukOH SHIT! i need pygtkeditor before then14:12
lcukKhertan, i hope you are givin that program some love - i want it super speedy14:13
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lcuki dont wanna have to write my own ide as well ;) though after tomorrow its a distinct possibility :)14:13
Khertan_n810i m currently planning a rewrite of pygtkeditor14:14
mgedminwhat news from osim?14:14
Khertan_n810but nothing is done yet14:14
lcukwriting your own texteditor component again?14:14
lcukor using the existing one still with just your python magic around it?14:15
JaffaThe booth is manned14:15
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lcukit would be better if it was womanned14:15
Khertan_n810lcuk: i think using the existing one ... gtksourceview but with different parameters14:15
lcuk:D heh @ rm_you bein the maemo boothbabe14:16
Khertan_n810and a more recent version of it14:16
Khertan_n810and doing some optimization14:16
lcukKhertan, if it goes anywhere rapidly, i might be able to get you a gtk editor component using liqbase backend in a windowed display14:16
aquatixKhertan_n810: is it an idea to port ?14:16
lcukbut that all depends on me gettin serious dev time for it all14:16
Khertan_n810not really too slow14:17
lcukKhertan, oh yes, it is14:17
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aquatixKhertan_n810: ah, gtksourceview already14:17
lcukmollasses on a tuesday14:17
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* lcuk puts a dollar in rm_yous thong14:18
Khertan_n810but i ll integrate some of the idea i see in scribes14:18
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lcukKhertan, for desktop ide i like komodo-edit - if you havent tried it give it a blast :)14:19
Khertan_n810i try to avoid kde things14:19
Khertan_n810i don t like it most of the time14:19
Khertan_n810but i ll get a look14:19
lcukis it kde? i use it in windows14:20
lcukbrb anyway, stomach grumbling14:21
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lcukcrashanddie, crashanddie where for art thou crashanddie14:34
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Robot101lcuk: btw, wherefore means why :)14:40
GeneralAntillesSummon him like Beetlejuice14:40
lcukthank you Robot10114:41
lcukstill doesnt help me14:41
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lcukok, can someone PLEASE confirm im not the only one freaked out by this:
johnxlcuk, used to know someone who had a dog with those.14:43
lcukthats scary14:43
lcukREALLY scary14:44
johnx*shrugs*¢it was an ex-show dog but actually really good natured.14:45
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Blafasellcuk: I like the idea that you can have them with different "firmness"14:45
* johnx is away again for a bit14:46
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BlafaselSo when you're used to play with your dog's testicles you can still enjoy it just the same! Stil feels - natural! hrhr.. Splendid, I have to bookmark the site14:47
lcukBlafasel, infact - you could say its the dogs bollocks14:47
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mgedmingoogle maps rules15:09
mgedminopenstreetmap also15:09
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* Jaffa yawns15:17
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yacooblcuk, looks like another money sink for fools15:20
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BlafaselI like the paragraph in the faq that advises the owner to massage the new genitals weekly to suppress scar tissue generation..15:23
Blafaselhrhr.. This is a neverending wtf..15:24
aquatixBlafasel: that's wrong in so many ways :)15:25
Blafaselaquatix: Yeah.. Like: "Hey, I cut off your testicles. Let me turn you on"15:26
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rm_youwoo. battery still holding out somehow15:36
BlafaselFor how long so far?15:39
KhertanI get this error in my bugtracker entered by an user : "When configuring mCalendar, many of the input fields inappropriately use initial caps. For example, when entering the password or login, the first character of the field defaults to upper case."15:40
BlafaselI'm curious if the battery pack will be handy this weekend.15:40
Khertanhow can i unactivated the auto caps on gtk.Entry ?15:40
dystopiahrw: yes  ihave e100015:40
hrwdystopia: I found solution - wrong cable15:41
lcukkhertan, i would have imagined if whatever "isPassword" flag you use to make stars appear would also automatically disable the auto capitalizing text input15:42
lcukor do you just use a standard text field with visible password15:42
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rm_yourebooting... memory issues <_<15:44
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Khertanlcuk: this is not the case for isPassword ... there is still Auto Caps15:50
Khertanbut i m looking for other gtk entry too15:50
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Khertanbut i can also answer to the user that this is a problem with the interface chair/keyboard15:51
lcukkhertan, autocaps is a user configurable option on normal text boxes - if they dont want it they can disable it in control panel?15:52
melmothsnowmoonI've found this, self.entry_id.set_property('autocap', False) but I get GtkEntry does not have property autocap15:53
Khertanlcuk:  yep but a password field should not have it15:54
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melmothKhertan: if i were you, i would vote on
* Khertan has voted ...15:56
Khertanthx melmoth for the links15:56
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keesjGeneralAntilles: very nice . !16:00
KhertanDevSesh 5 will be interesting ...16:02
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GeneralAntilleskeesj, not my doing.16:04
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mgedminhm, will the next internet tablet have built-in 3g/hspa?16:11
* aquatix pats GeneralAntilles 16:11
aquatixit will work out just fine16:11
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aquatixGeneralAntilles: maybe they even release a NIT light, without sliding keyboard en 3g16:12
aquatixfor $99 ;)16:12
lcukor get the full one 'free' with an 18month contract ;)16:12
andrewfblackIt was hard enough talking my wife into letting me speed $500 on my first tablet16:13
GeneralAntilleslcuk, at $50/mo for data?16:13
GeneralAntillesI don't think so.16:13
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lcukpeople seem to be scooping them up in their millions from the apple side16:13
lcuk"i dont think so" sounds more like sour grapes :P16:13
GeneralAntillesI can't afford that kind of cost.16:14
GeneralAntillesno ifs ands or buts.16:15
_teo_I'm having an issue with the browser in OS2008, maybe you folks can help me. Simply, when I start the browser, the app hangs there, there's a notification box saying "Updating" and while the app interface responds (menu opens, icons are clicked), I can't open any page nor do anything useful, like an interface that does nothing16:15
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andrewfblackI'm more afraid of Nokia not making the OS backwards compatable and I will be stuck with a tablet that no one is writing software for anymore16:15
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GeneralAntilles /etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon restart16:16
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GeneralAntillesandrewfblack, welcome to the 770 owner's world.16:16
lcukgen, you have multiple expensive devices in your home, you are chairman of the community council, stop whining about cost - if one comes out i doubt you would be able to resist16:16
lcukand i doubt it would be long before you were accepted for the dev-handouts or beta testing etc16:16
GeneralAntilleslcuk, it's not just my own personal cost I'm considering, though.16:16
aquatixand noone is forcing a data contrac on you16:16
GeneralAntillesThe N800 was popular because it was cheap16:16
_teo_GeneralAntilles: woohoo, it works! thank you very much!16:16
aquatixsee how many got an n810 :)16:17
GeneralAntillesA $700 tablet would kill off most of the market.16:17
* aquatix is afk for a bit16:17
GeneralAntillesI don't feel like arguing it.16:17
lcukwhere does anything say anything about price?16:17
_teo_who would have thought it was just a daemon to restart -_-'16:17
aquatixGeneralAntilles: heh :) just saying that you shouldn't be too gloomy now16:17
GeneralAntillesIt's the Nvidia discussion all over again.16:17
aquatixcheer up ;)16:17
GeneralAntilleslcuk, compare it to the N96.16:18
lcukhuh? nahhh its not - but aquatix is right - itsn ot required that you use mobile, but it would be a great asset to be built in.  anyway im afk as well16:18
GeneralAntillesI still pay for it even if I don't use it.16:18
lcukyer, i have a damned expensive gps sitting in my 810 that i barely use - it tells me im sat at my computer16:19
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GeneralAntillesNokia probably got all of those chips for free from TI.16:19
andrewfblackyeah GPS chips are dirt cheap16:20
GeneralAntillesEspecially GPS chips as shitty as the one in the N810.16:20
lcukand they would do likewise with the gprs chip, come on you are just against cellular fullstop - even if it was free16:20
GeneralAntillesIt's never free.16:20
GeneralAntillesThat's why it's cellular16:20
GeneralAntillesThey have to pass all sorts of expensive testing to even sell it.16:21
GeneralAntillesDoesn't matter how much the hardware costs.16:21
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andrewfblackIf they are going cellular built it it wont be long and they will be locking them to certain companys in the US16:21
RST38hmoo all16:21
Andy80hi all16:21
lcukand they manage that and sell phones for $20 or less16:21
andrewfblack$20 phone comes with a 2 year contract16:21
lcukno, payg16:22
GeneralAntillesThose phones have economies of scale involved that an N900 wont ever be able to compete with.16:22
RST38hwell, buy your phone at full price and do not sign the contract16:22
andrewfblackpayg phones are alot more then $2016:22
RST38hit is as easy as this16:22
mgedminwhat's "payg"?16:22
RST38hpay as you go16:22
GeneralAntillesPay as You Go16:22
lcukwhat about the 3g modem i can buy over here for £30 that plugs into computer and is just a modem?16:22
andrewfblackcheapest pay as you go phone I have seen is about $50 to %7516:22
RST38hin other words, what you are doing =)16:22
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johnx_ah, well. time will tell. but I think I should get more maemo software into debian, make sure to keep my options open :)16:23
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johnx_hopefully we'll get to the end of this situation where each device has a totally different software stack16:24
* Khertan is thinking of making the most well selled and easy to code application for iPhone ...16:24
StsN800johnx_, btw google finit-alt and see the videos16:24
* Khertan at some company ... each device should have an anti-virus ...16:25
lcukkhertan, gfi16:25
StsN800johnx_, could be interesting to adapt16:25
KhertanThe Khertan AntiVirus for iPhone16:25
KhertanSome nice icons ... a nice progress bar ...16:25
Khertanand it ll be enought :)16:26
Khertanno need to a real engine :)16:26
lcukbut if all apps come from app-store and you cannot run as a daemon  isnt that kinda fruitless16:26
Khertanlcuk: this useless true ... but some company don't accept iphone as the company policies claim that there is no anti virus on it16:27
lcukheh, good idea then16:27
johnx_lcuk, nope. it's even better this way. nothing to slow down other apps :)16:27
mgedminare there antiviruses for regular plain old non-smart phones?16:27
lcukare there viruses for plain old non-smart phones?16:27
GeneralAntillesFor WinMob? Probably.16:27
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Khertanmgedmin: 6630 isn't a smartphone16:28
Khertanbut there is many antivirus ...16:28
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mgedminanything with windows mobile in it is not a phone in my book16:28
Khertanarg this suck ... you need a mac to compile something for iPhone16:28
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, how do you figure?16:29
Khertanmgedmin: 6630 isn't something with winmobile16:29
GeneralAntillesThe Motorola Q is definitely a phone.16:29
mgedmingeneral: the link you posted said "antivirus for windows mobile"16:29
mgedminI didn't read any further than that16:29
mgedminI'm not sure why we're discussing 663016:29
Khertanbecause it s my phone :)16:29
Khertanit s not a smartphone16:30
mgedminI expressed my incredulity with a company policy outlawing cellphones that have no antivirus software for them16:30
Khertanbut there is antivirus for it16:30
* Khertan will not give any name ... like BNP ...16:30
Khertanthey force us to have antivirus on Mac osx16:31
Khertanand don't let anything using there network if the device don't have an antivirus16:31
lcukwhat about a firewall?16:32
pyhimysKhertan: switches/routers too? :)16:32
pyhimysOr printers!16:32
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mgedminhey, does this ethernet cable have antivirus on it?16:33
andrewfblackmy company wont let me use my n810 just because its not windows16:33
andrewfblackonly way to get a computer on the wireless network is to run a windows program that sets it up to work16:34
Khertanpyhimys: lol ... :)16:34
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t_s_oiirc, one can get ethernet dongles now that apply antivirus and ids on the traffic passing thru it...16:34
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Khertanthere is also small ethernet<->wifi dongle that can be plug discretly :)16:35
GeneralAntillesKhertan, that's one way to get your ass fired.16:35
Khertanexample i ve see a company with a strong security get hack from internal ... behind the cofee machine there was an unused ethernet plug ...16:35
Khertanand something use it to reroute all the traffic ...16:36
KhertanGeneralAntilles: yep ... it is16:36
t_s_ojust make sure to keep a copy of the root password(s) on the keychain usb dongle ;)16:37
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pyhimysor on a postit on your monitor16:42
t_s_oi was thinking more in case one got fired ;)16:42
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pyhimysthen you just need a machine that does ssh porforwarding to a some outside machine16:44
hrwI know company which require using windows-only software to connect to company vpn16:44
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pyhimysIn one of my former companies we found out a nt-box that had an uptime of 900+ days. It was on public internet with iis and sql-server.16:46
pyhimysAnd it wasn't cracked!16:46
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liripyhimys: it was probably on a 2400 baud modem, on one could even ping it :)16:52
pyhimysliri: or blackhole routed16:53
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RST38hwhy would a script kiddie hack his own box?16:55
aquatixpyhimys: how do you know it wasn't rootkitted?16:55
aquatixbesides, did it actually do something useful? ;)16:56
t_s_oRST38h: training? forgotten the password?16:56
pyhimysthere wasn't ftp-server running?16:56
aquatixyou sure? ;)16:56
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t_s_oi recall reading a classical story about some university server betting drywalled because noone remembered that it was there, as there had been no reason to physically access it in ages...16:57
pyhimysaquatix: pretty sure. The unix-admins couldn't believe it so they checked out the box pretty thoroughly16:57
aquatixit hadn't a firewall up on all ports?16:58
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pyhimysAnyways it wasn't my box. The windows admins smirked for weeks after that.16:58
pyhimysOfcourse it had a firewall in front of it. But it had atleast http open.16:59
aquatix`wow, we had one server with big uptime and no cracks!'16:59
pyhimysand iis isn't actually known for robust security17:00
johnx_RST38h, I hacked my own machine once. I inherited an SGI O2 with a lost root password...17:00
t_s_ophysical access = boot to single user?17:00
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johnx_there was some reason I could easily17:02
RST38hjohnx: Ah, O2s ...17:02
johnx_I ended up taking out the drive and rewriting the root password17:02
* RST38h weeps a little bit17:02
johnx_I never did figure out what to do with it17:02
RST38hBut it looked cool17:02
johnx_it's stored in my parents garage for now17:02
RST38hLike a blue trashcan17:03
pyhimysjohnx_: watch the opengl demos forever?17:03
johnx_mine was kinda old and beat up17:03
aquatixjohnx_: can't you run an AI on it?17:03
johnx_or play bzflag :)17:03
RST38hjohnx: Somebody had sex with it? =)17:03
johnx_RST38h, eh? it was just scratched and missing the cd-rom drive cover...17:04
RST38hmissing cdrom drive cover <-- sure evidence17:04
* Jaffa is back in the hotel.17:04
jsmanriquelmoura: hi!17:04
RST38hjohnx: btw it should play this quite nicely:
aquatixjohnx_: install an AI on it and call it Erwin ;)17:05
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jsmanriquelmoura: how could I update python packages since it doesn't appear in app manager? as root in console?17:05
johnx_ah...I remember user-friendly when it was still kinda funny...17:05
aquatixjohnx_: ;)17:05
aquatixtoday's actually is quite fun17:05
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andrewfblackI wonder if that MMORPG that runs on Android will run on the Tablets on Android17:14
yacoobI wonder how good will android be doing on the tablets17:15
johnx_a lot better once there's source :)17:16
johnx_hard to get excited about making it work with binary hacks that break the license agreement when the source release is imminent...17:16
JaffaAndroid'll run very badly due to the lack of 3D drivers: all the talk during the Android Keynote was of "compelling UI" and easy Â3D.17:18
yacoobI just wonder whether it will provide missing pim functionality...17:18
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Khertanyacoob there is some marvelous pim on maemo17:19
johnx_Jaffa, I think 3D won't be required17:19
Khertanthe problem of android is java17:19
johnx_for developers I guess :)17:19
johnx_but it's only a problem once, not a new problem with every new device17:19
JaffaAdmittedly, the next Maemo device is going to have 3D acceleration, so it becomes much more likely as an Android target.17:20
Khertanjohnx_: a problem for dev ... mainly mean less applications ... so a problem for users :)17:20
aquatixi think they choose language to make it easier for developers17:20
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JaffaBut, from what I overheard, that's looking in the wrong direction for which big Linux company'll be involved.17:20
yacoobKhertan, it must be pretty deep burried 8)17:20
johnx_Khertan, well, I'm happy to wait and see17:21
johnx_this year is seeing a lot of interesting linux devices to choose from17:21
Khertanjohnx_: yep it seems ... but android don't enjoy me ...17:21
yacoobohhh, it's getting better :D17:22
aquatixKhertan: is mContacts compatible with the built-in contacts?17:22
Khertanaquatix: nope17:22
Khertaneds sucks17:22
yacoobKhertan, can has month view, free time view and syncml plx? :>17:22
Khertaneds <-> evolution data server17:22
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* aquatix seconds syncml17:22
* Khertan vote -1 for syncml17:23
* aquatix overrules Khertan ;)17:23
* yacoob cracks the whip over Khertan.17:23
yacoobCommunity has spoken! Get back to work!17:23
aquatixseriously, it'd be awesome to have, as you can then actually sync it with phones and such17:23
Khertani ll see what i can do17:23
lirimcalendar should also support multi calendars because that's common in google calendar17:23
aquatixKhertan: i'm aware that syncml is extremely hairy though :(17:23
Khertanliri: don't say it ... but it ll in a few days ...17:23
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liriKhertan: nice :)17:24
Khertanin fact the not yet release version do it :)17:24
liriKhertan: cool, I'm looking forwards to it17:24
Khertanaquatix: hairy ... i ll not be so polite17:24
Khertanbut i m looking how to do this17:24
aquatixcan't you look at opensync's code for it?17:25
Khertani can look17:25
Khertanbut ... i already wear glasses17:25
Khertani don't want to be blind17:25
aquatix`omg, the goggles - they do nothing!'17:25
* aquatix doesn't know whether the opensync code is nice or not17:26
Khertanoh ... i ve found something interesting about sync ml :
Khertanhuhu it use uuid17:27
Khertan<SyncML> <SyncHdr> <VerDTD>1.1</VerDTD> <VerProto>SyncML/1.1</VerProto> <SessionID>104050403</SessionID> <MsgID>5</MsgID> <Cred>...</Cred> </SyncHdr> <SyncBody> <Status>...</Status> <Sync> <Target>target database URI</Target> <Source>source database URI</Source> <Add>datafield and data</Add> <Replace>an existing data field with some data</Replace> </Sync> </SyncBody> </SyncML>17:27
Khertanouch sorry17:27
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Khertanhum ... and if says that i can do something that use google as middleware for the syncml ?17:29
RST38hjaffa: Android = java17:29
Khertanand java != good17:29
RST38hI.e. it suddenly becomes uninsteresting for any serious development17:29
yacoobRST38h, there are developers that think exactly otherwise :)17:30
JaffaAndroid actually == JVM + Dalvik.17:31
JaffaWhich means: Groovy, Python, JRuby, Java, ...17:31
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JaffaMature tooling. Rich libraries.17:31
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JaffaAnyone who says "Java is uninteresting for any serious development" may mean *to them*, but in the real world... not so much.17:31
RST38hJaffa: abismal performance17:31
RST38hmemory hog.17:32
Jaffa(FSVO real, where real == $$$)17:32
RST38hJaffa: In a real world you need to play mpeg4 video ;)17:32
JaffaRST38h: Google's answer to that is Dalvik, not a typical stack-based JVM. Whether it works or not, I dunno.17:32
aquatixRST38h: actually, things like opera mini and google maps run just fine on my cellphone17:32
RST38hjaffa: Dalvik is not the answer, I am sorry17:32
JaffaRST38h: Android demo I saw this morning was quite happy doing complex 3D, semi-transparent rendering and MPEG4 video.17:32
* aquatix is curious to the performance of android though17:33
yacoobRST38h, bad java apps are mostly results of its popularity17:33
RST38hjaffa: It works faster than most JITs of course, but not fast enough17:33
yacoobsame story as with php17:33
GeneralAntillesJaffa, did you get my -community email?17:33
JaffaRST38h: It's better than Python17:33
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RST38hjaffa: I have seen 3D demo on a Spectrum. Does not mean anything.17:33
aquatixRST38h: but how is that different from python on the n8x0?17:33
yacoobyou had sudden influx of eager "developers", commiting every possible sin there is17:33
RST38hPython is not trying to become the only languge to develop in17:33
JaffaRST38h: I'm not going to have a theoretical debate about the performance of a platform which hasn't been released.17:33
RST38hPython is an option on Maemo. Java is the main dev language on Android17:34
aquatixRST38h: but it runs fine, and people are doing multimedia with it17:34
RST38hJaffa: it is not theoretical, really17:34
KhertanJaffa: RST38h: It's better than Python : FALSE !17:34
JaffaGeneralAntilles: which one, the first task one?17:34
aquatixKhertan: erm, performance of java in a decent jvm is better than python17:34
RST38hJaffa: Very practical. Means that instead of video decoders, emulators, complex games you will just get a bunch of underbaked slow java apps like you get for java phones17:35
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I figure you're probably best equipped to understand the issue.17:35
* aquatix likes python though17:35
GeneralAntillesSo if you could bug everybody else about it. ;)17:35
JaffaGeneralAntilles: will do :-)17:35
jottit really depends on which applications you want to develop. 90% of normal end-user apps will probably be fine with dalvik.17:35
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* python likes aquatix too :)17:35
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jottdepending on how fast the native gui+multimedia stack is...17:35
aquatixawww :)17:35
Khertanlol syncml AND python search in sourceforge give no results17:35
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Jaffajott: indeed.17:36
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aquatixKhertan: ?17:37
aquatixthat's code from
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dystopiat_s_o: yes that was a DEC :-)17:38
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Khertanyep ... but syncing task is easy17:38
Khertanand isn't really hard17:38
Khertannot the same thing for event17:38
Khertanfor example :)17:39
yacoobrecurrence? exceptions from it ftw!17:40
yacoob(speaking of which, scheduleworld has just messed my gcal :E)17:40
aquatixi think devices normally just store exceptions to the recurrence17:40
* aquatix gave up on synching his phone (primary PIM) a while back17:40
GeneralAntillesNokia's insistence that their closed-source UI stuff gives them an advantage is laughable.17:40
GeneralAntillesIf anything, it hurts them because the community can't hack on it and turn their suck into not-suck.17:41
aquatixno good syncml services out there17:41
aquatixGeneralAntilles: myeah17:41
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: suffice to say, I'll raise this with Ari tonight ;-)17:41
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, beat him around with a 2x4.17:42
Khertanaquatix: do you if taskcoach is already be able to do sync by syncml protocol ? i see nothing in the code17:43
johnx_yeah, 80% is the low and mid level libraries, 20% is all the user facing stuff...17:43
Jaffa...apart from hildon-desktop17:43
GeneralAntilles80% is all the stuff they just got from other people. ;)17:44
johnx_well hildon-desktop *itself* is open...but not anything that makes it a real desktop17:44
aquatixKhertan: well, i got those links from here -
GeneralAntillesI still need somebody who knows libconic17:45
GeneralAntillesBe really nice to replace the connectivity applets with a "Advanced" version.17:45
aquatixKhertan: or check network manager?17:46
aquatixbut that's C, likely17:46
aquatixKhertan: interesting to make a port though ;)17:46
GeneralAntillesThe battery applet should be an easy one to replace.17:46
johnx_practically done already17:47
johnx_since you can put systray apps in the statusbar it should be just a matter of compiling an off the shelf battery applet that can grok hal17:47
GeneralAntillesDrag in some retu numbers for some more interesting stats.17:48
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johnx_then you quickly end up being device specific...17:48
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johnx_one step forward, two steps back17:48
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GeneralAntillesWell, what else are you looking to use it on? :P17:49
BinkyHi all17:49
GeneralAntillesIt'd be simple enough to detect what it's running on, anyway.17:49
johnx_GeneralAntilles, *everything else* :)17:49
GeneralAntillesand only show the retu stuff when appropriate.17:49
johnx_how about the next tablet for one, and the pandora for another17:49
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I'd rather have the extra functionality on the tablet I have right now.17:49
johnx_then code it in :P17:50
BinkyPeople, i never play marbles, if i remove /usr/games/lmarbles, will it be removed?17:50
johnx_I'm just say there are already battery applets we can use now17:50
GeneralAntillesjohnx_, get to Hildonizing then. :P17:51
johnx_I'm not sold on a hildon only desktop17:51
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Stskeepsjohnx_: still have a bit of an idea of a hildon ui on debian, eh?17:52
summatusmentisif there were a way to have a dual hildon/gtk desktop... :)17:52
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johnx_Stskeeps, digging into the "pkg-maemo" modest source package right now17:52
johnx_if I could make bzr checkout the code...grrrr17:53
aquatixBinky: isn't there a package for it?17:54
aquatixBinky: if so, remove it with the app manager17:54
BinkyIt comes preinstalled17:54
johnx_it still has an entry in apt17:54
johnx_but if you remove it through apt it will remove osso-software-version-*17:54
GeneralAntillessummatusmentis, Hildon is GTK. . . .17:55
Binkyjohnx_,  But anyway, i can't remove apps, i have to erase files17:55
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johnx_Binky, you can remove it with apt-get remove <package>17:56
BinkyNo, i can't17:56
johnx_I have done this in the past17:56
BinkyResults in an error17:56
qwerty12johnx_: dpkg with force-all can remove a package but leaves deps unsatisfied17:56
qwerty12s/a package/a preinstalled package/17:57
infobotqwerty12 meant: johnx_: dpkg with force-all can remove a preinstalled package but leaves deps unsatisfied17:57
johnx_qwerty12, I just sacrificed osso-software-version17:57
BinkyI can install apps but i can't remove them.17:57
Binkyjohnx_, what's the use of that package?17:58
qwerty12johnx_: true. In chinook I did this but now with SSU, I don't take any chances :)17:58
johnx_qwerty12, same here17:58
johnx_Binky, it's used during updates to make sure everything gets updated17:58
johnx_anyways, if you want to remove just the files, do apt-cache search marbles, then dpkg -L package-name17:58
johnx_that will tell you the files17:58
Binkycannot remove `/.': Invalid argument Errors were encountered while processing: any appE: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)17:58
summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: oh, I guess I knew that17:59
johnx_what was the exact command you used17:59
Binky # apt-get remove mitter18:00
BinkyBut the same with any package18:00 your whole system is somewhat broken18:00
BinkyAlso, apt-cache search marbles won't give me any result18:00
Binkyjohnx_, it was, but i kinda 'fixed' it18:01
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johnx_if you can't remove any app I would call it broken18:01
BinkySo, i can install, but no uninstall18:01
johnx_also, it does turn up results on my working system18:01
BinkyMy /var/apt/archives/status broke18:02
Binkyjohnx_, it finds results for other apps, but not marbles18:02
qwerty12Binky: What is in /var/lib/dpkg/info/? Do you have a *marbles.list file in there?18:03
johnx_I can't make guesses about what kind of damage is done to /var/lib/dpkg/status18:03
Stskeepsgah. anyone happen to have utelnetd-0.1.3.tar.gz source laying about?18:03
Stskeepsthe homepage of it is broken18:03
Binkyjohnx_, it manages apt-get18:03
johnx_Binky, and yet it's obviously broken18:04
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BinkyNope. It's blank, since it was all corrupted18:04
qwerty12Stskeeps: Simple tricks ;)
Stskeepsqwerty12: ah18:04
Stskeepsmy geek fu isn't as good as it used to18:04
BinkyAnd my 770 doesn't know what apps i have installed18:05
BinkyBut i know18:05
qwerty12Though I probably have the source laying about due to the amount of router firmware sources I got...18:05
johnx_Binky, your /var/lib/dpkg/status isn't related in any way to what's installed...but it's not *broken*18:05
Binkyjohnx_, that's it. i messed up the file location, sorry18:06
johnx_if you want to remove it by hand then try find /usr -name "*marble*"18:06
johnx_that will give you a hint at least18:06
johnx_some stuff in /usr/share /usr/games and maybe /usr/lib18:07
johnx_then when you have time, reflash :)18:09
BinkyAnd remov all results. And it's done, true?18:09
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johnx_well, remove stuff that you think is related18:09
johnx_and there will probably be little bits left behind18:10
johnx_there's not much you can do in your situation, without a working package manager18:10
BinkyOh no! I'd have reflashed looong time ago, but WSOD is there... Hiding... And when you less wait it... WHITE!!!18:10
jottare there any plans for the evening?18:11
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GeneralAntillesFor shame! " is an open source project, sponsored and contributed by Nokia"18:17
GeneralAntilles"Nokia uses as the foundation of its own Maemo software that currently fuels Nokia’s Internet Tablets" not sure what _that_ means, exactly.18:19
Stskeepsmarketing speak?18:19
dystopiait means nokia abuses and currently nokia internet tablet is using maemo software18:20
GeneralAntillesCan somebody at the Summit make sure somebody from Nokia legal is hunted down about the stuff?18:21
GeneralAntillesNokia hasn't been upgraded.18:23
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*** GeneralAntilles changes topic to "Sprint5 review in #maemo-meeting 9/19 | Maemo Community Council | |"18:28
GeneralAntillesAnybody know what's going on with the sprint review?18:29
lcuka sprint review in the middle of the summit?18:29
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GeneralAntillesSo says the wiki18:29
lcuksounds like an odd time18:29
GeneralAntillesYeah, don't see where it could fit.18:30
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andrewfblackis anyone at the summit on there Tablet? lol18:59
aquatixeveryone's battery is running out now ;)18:59
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aquatixandrewfblack: was quite fun to see quite a lot of NIT's (and Eee's) at FOSDEM this year too btw19:00
aquatixand that's already a while ago19:00
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andrewfblackLunch time19:01
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mathisderpenner_weiß einer die lottozahlen19:06
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aquatixyeah, hello to you too19:09
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ptmanso the announcements today mean mobile broadband on maemo, not mobile phone running maemo?19:12
* Jaffa foods.19:13
Stskeepswho'd want a nokia tablet glued to their ear anyway?19:14
* qwerty12 sighs in relief as I replace my shell script cgi with a c++ one19:14
Stskeepsearprint galore19:14
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dystopianokia implant tablet19:15
dystopiawith 100% more RFID:-)19:15
Stskeepsgod, i'd really like a ctrl-alt-del like thing on the tablets19:16
Stskeepsso i dont have to physically pop the battery19:16
* Stskeeps ponders making a mmc door trigger19:17
johnx_figure out a way to send a sysrq19:17
johnx_usb keyboard should do it19:17
lcukStskeeps, ill buy that for a dollar19:17
Stskeepsi'm sortof making the boot process all over again so it feels like june again19:17
lcukusb big red button19:18
lcuki allocated all my sketches (about 300 at the mo) multiple times without freeing them, my pooter went a bit skitz19:18
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Mouseycan stimpy KEEP from PUSHING the SHINEY RED BUTTON that BECKONS him EVEN NOW19:18
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johnx_Stskeeps, you want one of these:
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Stskeepsjohnx_: i noticed one reason for ubuntu on tablets - mojo targets the processors more directly than debian's catch-most-arm19:20
johnx_yeah, I've been thinking about that19:20
johnx_a debian build of mojo looks pretty ideal though19:20
johnx_angstrom is another possibility, too19:20
Stskeepsand i wonder if it would be possible to compile specific needed packages like let's say xserver, dash or the likes :P19:21
Stskeepsbut not sure how apt handles that19:21
johnx_I'd still like to figure out what needs to happen to run hildon apps in a normal window manager...19:21
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johnx_Stskeeps, you export some env variable and build away19:21
johnx_we have such a wealth of apps that work *really* great on the would be a shame to toss them aside19:22
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Stskeepsi was thinking if it would be possible to do Maemo chroot really19:22
Stskeepswith same tricks, two xomap etc19:22
johnx_*sigh* that seems pretty icky to me19:22
Stskeepsyeah, but it's one way ;)19:23
Stskeepshildon packages exist for debian though19:23
johnx_and I'm working on figuring out why bzr won't let me check out the work in progress modest debian package...19:23
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Stskeepsyou want to see if it sucks less on debian? ;)19:24
johnx_I *like it* on os200x19:24
johnx_I must be the only person who it works perfectly for...19:24
Stskeepsyeah :P19:24
qwerty12You would need to run a sapwood at least. I did ssh -X forwarding of hildon apps from the tablet to the computer and the result was a little freaky :/
johnx_qwerty12, that's cause the gtk theme is set to hildon too19:25
johnx_I'm thinking sato gtk theme would be nice19:25
johnx_hildon gtk theme is truly weird19:25
johnx_and I want to stab sapwood for wasting my time19:25
johnx_ha! made bzr work19:26
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johnx_seriously, a gtk theme that relies on some random separate process ... who thought that was an ok idea?19:27
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rm_youjott: yo?19:28
Stskeepsjohnx_: maybe it saves resources..19:28
johnx_Stskeeps, It must...but it's still a kludge19:28
GeneralAntillesSapwood is supposed to be "lightweight"19:29
johnx_good for it. the default gtk theme is probably more lightweight19:29
GeneralAntillesThen why are they using?19:29
GeneralAntillesThere must be SOME reason.19:29
johnx_they probably wanted to be able to theme with pixmaps19:29
johnx_that's my only conclusion19:30
qwerty12at least sapwood is opensource. it would really take the piss if it wasn't :/19:30
johnx_anyways, I'll see what I can make work without it19:30
johnx_and how screwed up the results look :)19:31
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johnx_an omap3 sure will be nice for on-device builds :)19:31
Stskeepsi have two qemu-system-armel debian boxes by now :P19:31
Stskeepsusing them for building19:31
Stskeepsnot as fast as scratchbox though..19:31
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johnx_I should put mine back in place...but I'm not convinced it's much faster on an athlon6419:32
johnx_and thankfully I'm not building anything huge these days19:32
GeneralAntillesjohnx_, Beagle's are cheap. ;)19:32
Stskeepsi was thinking about getting a beagle but i dont have any flatscreens :P19:32
johnx_GeneralAntilles, pandora comes with a screen :)19:32
GeneralAntillesTwice the price, though.19:33
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, not ONE?19:33
GeneralAntillesThey haven't sold a use CRT in at least 4 years. . . .19:33
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: They haven't sold a useful CRT in at least 4 years. . . .19:33
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: well, except on a laptop19:33
johnx_dvi to vga converter exist, right?19:33
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Pavlovbeagles don't have screens to break either19:34
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i'm of the opinion that i should use old equipment until the benefit of something newer warrants the cost19:34
Stskeepsor the pain19:34
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, if you had upgraded to an LCD 4 years ago, you would've recouped the cost in electricity saving several times over.19:34
johnx_Stskeeps, I know what you mean...all my crts finally died horrible, slow deaths19:34
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: oh, i don't get charged for electricity :P19:35
johnx_I'm lucky too, cause I have no desktop space for them19:35
Stskeepsvery low flat rate19:35
jottrm_you: pong19:35
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RST38hIsn't it fun to watch, in a weird macabre way?19:42
lirican the default media player or canola play http streams from vlc?19:46
johnx_RST38h, how is it where you are?19:46
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Khertan_n810my crt died violently too19:47
Khertan_n810with the mother board, and all thing plugged in the electric plug in my student appartement19:47
johnx_RST38h, so what do you think? time to buy in yet?19:49
Stskeepsnokia stock? :P19:49
johnx_I think the DOW is what he's on about19:50
johnx_took awhile to figure out that wasn't just a random number :)19:50
RST38hjohnx: also not good19:51
RST38hjohnx: government stopped trading for a few hours, reopened it, and MMVB-3%, RTS-6%19:52
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RST38hjohnx: I dunno. Looks like this is not the end of the descent19:52
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johnx_ha! my bank is getting screwed too19:55
RST38hjohnx: if this goes for a few more days, there is a good chance that Putin says "ok, we tried market economy and it did not work out" and just tells the government to buy whatever remains of the stocks, wholesale19:56
Stskeepsand puts back communism into place saying they were just hibernating? :P19:56
RST38hthat would be fun19:56
johnx_RST38h, seriously?19:56
RST38hsts: more or less, although it is socialism, basically19:56
RST38hjohnx: yes.19:56
RST38hjohnx: they have got the money - 3rd place in gold reserves in the world19:57
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johnx_ahaha...Japan Tobacco is up. Stressed out bank execs need to smoke :D19:57
johnx_RST38h, gold is down though...19:57
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RST38hjohnx: it'll be up in no time now =)19:57
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dystopiaNOK 5,69% down20:01
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RST38hAs a side note, Obama is up20:02
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* johnx_ wonders about currency values as modest builds20:04
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Khertan_n810Someone have ten minutes to help me ?20:08
RST38hjohnx: ruble has been down but is now floating around 25.5/$20:09
Khertan_n810mCalendar icon doesn t appear in the  tasknav20:09
Khertan_n810and i don t understand why20:09
Khertan_n810i think it s .desktop problem20:09
RST38hjohnx: euro appears to be up relative to $20:10
Khertan_n810but after refine and revise it again and again20:10
Khertan_n810i ve still the same problem20:10
RST38hKhertan: on the left side, where running apps icons are?20:10
Khertan_n810RST38h: yep20:10
RST38hnot a .desktop problem20:10
RST38hyou have to report your app name to gtk20:10
Khertan_n810hum really ?20:10
RST38ha second20:10
Khertan_n810arg ...20:10
Khertan_n810this suck20:11
Khertan_n810i blank it20:11
RST38h  /* Initialize GTK and GLib type system */20:11
RST38h  gtk_init(&ARGC,&ARGV);20:11
RST38h  g_type_init();20:11
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RST38hthe first line (gtk_init) is what you need20:11
Khertan_n810as when creating window with Hildon window and python20:11
RST38hyou have to do it somehow20:11
Khertan_n810if you don t clear the name, it show the name of the python file + the name of the window20:12
RST38hor it won't know what icon to show20:12
Khertan_n810hum i will try ... thx20:12
RST38hfake argc/argv for it20:12
Khertan_n810i think too it could be a dbus things20:12
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Khertan_n810                gtk.set_application_name('mCalendar')20:14
Khertan_n810seems to be not enoughn20:14
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RST38hno, you need to pass argc/argv to gtk_init20:15
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rm_youjott: reping20:17
jottrm_you: what's up? :)20:17
rm_youwe're going for food and a pint.20:18
jottaye. where to?20:18
rm_youirish pub next to the hotel here20:18
rm_youin the shopping center belw the hotel20:19
jotthmm, alright. i think i'll come around. when are you there?20:19
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GNUtonHi there20:20
mikkov_Khertan: set_title() could be what you're looking for20:21
rm_yougoing now. be there for a while. i can call you on timeless' phone in a bit20:21
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Khertan_n810set_title doesn t seems to work for icon20:21
mikkov_ah, ok haven't really tried20:22
mikkov_osso_initialize() had something?20:22
jotthello GNUton20:23
RST38hKherton, gtk_init20:24
RST38hKhertan: it makes no sense to try other ways. I have already tried them all :)20:24
mikkov_you don't really call gtk_init directly in pygtk?20:25
Khertan_n810but i don t understand as i don t set it on pygtkediotr and it s work20:25
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Khertan_n810and i ven t found how to call gtk_init in python way20:25
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chrisvhi folks20:30
mikkov_Khertan_n810: you have specified service file in mcalendar.desktop but there is no .service file with that name20:30
RST38hKhertan: I am sure python calls it for you implicitely20:30
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Khertan_n810mikkov_: usr/share/dbus-1/services/mcalendar.service20:31
Khertan_n810not here ?20:32
chrisvn00b question: as it seems there is no resolvconf (the program, not the resolv.conf file) on maemo, how is one supposed to add a nameserver dynamically (trying to setup openvpn)?20:32
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mikkov_Khertan_n810: ah, ok I was looking for net.khertan.mcalendar. Forgot difference between service name and actual file ;)20:33
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dougt_noob q -- when you boot a different kernel using the flasher, do you lose access to your media cards?20:36
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Khertan_n810sorry 3g connection drop sometimes20:37
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johnx_modest is not a small app...20:38
mikkov_chrisv: you could try some hackery with up and down scripts if you know dns servers beforehand20:39
Khertan_n810i ll say more : modest is the best mobile email client i have ever see20:39
johnx_Khertan, you and me are the only 2 people who think that...20:40
mikkov_chrisv: this could also be helpful
chrisvmikkov: thx, that dnsmasq thing seems to be exactly what I was looking for20:41
RST38hjohnx,Khertan: you are20:41
RST38hit's awful, mostly because of the bugs20:41
RST38hbut a non-proportional font setting and the ability to see *all* your accounts at the left would also help it20:42
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Khertan_n810RST38h: i don t see bugs ...20:42
Khertan_n810ok sometimes a killall modest help20:42
johnx_there are's just better than anything *else*20:43
Khertan_n810(a connection drop while retrieving a mail can freeze the retrieving process)20:43
jottmutt :)20:43
Khertan_n810Pyne4Maemo :)20:43
Khertan_n810not bugged ... but less function20:43
johnx_heh...the big win for modest is that it's thumb-friendly20:44
Khertan_n810no ssl20:44
Khertan_n810no imap20:44
Khertan_n810and have a great interface20:44
Khertan_n810simple ... and not many click are requirement to do sample thing20:45
johnx_exactly. it covers 90% of my usage while mobile20:46
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Sargun_Screeni  like the treo keyboard far better20:51
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Sargun_Screenbut its too od for a device as large as a tablet20:51
johnx_I like the zaurus 5500 keyboard best...but maybe I'm weird20:51
johnx_...for treo-sized keyboards20:52
johnx_and the zaurus c1000 keyboard for bigger ones20:52
Khertan_n810i like the one from the n81020:53
Khertan_n810anyway i ve never try the keyboard of the 550020:53
Khertan_n810but i know i don t like the treo one20:53
johnx_and modest built!20:55
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dystopiamutt supports ssl as does stunnel20:59
* RST38h wants his PINE.20:59
* johnx_ hits RST38h with a PINE20:59
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dystopiauw bleh, not free enough20:59
RST38hMicrosoft Almost Bought Nintendo, And More Revelations by Peter Moore [Microsoft]21:00
RST38hscary shit21:00
* RST38h has no problem with "not free". It is free if they let me use it for free and do not bugger me21:00
Khertan_n810RST38h: ?21:00
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dystopiastrange maybe join #warez instead21:01
RST38hdystopia: I did not mention "steal" anywhere21:01
RST38huw lets me use PINE for free. No stealing involved.21:01
dystopiaif you want scary proza try halloween files ;-)21:01
RST38hyea, but MS buying Nintendo - horror!21:02
dystopiawhy not just use mutt?21:02
RST38hnot used to it, that's all21:02
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Khertan_n810rst38h : a rumor ?21:02
dystopiaor sth else actively mantained21:02
RST38hwould probably use it otherwise21:02
Khertan_n810or for real21:02
dystopiaconsider muttlikepine21:02
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dystopiaglad they didn't, now we have the Wii21:03
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johnx_oooh...the new gumstix21:06
johnx_didn't know about that21:06
Stskeepshehe, that looks cute21:07
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Khertan_n81018 juil 2007 peter moore leave microsoft for EA Sport21:08
Khertan_n810not really a fresh news21:08
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konttoriwhat have people been thinking about the page 3 on aris slides?21:14
GeneralAntillesI think HSDPA sounds expensive.21:14
dystopiathe hot debate involves HSPA21:14
dystopiasome love it, some hate it21:15
GeneralAntillesI'm interested to know if we'll be getting a RAM upgrade.21:15
johnx_me? I'm against sharing photos. Stealing souls is the devil's work!21:15
Khertan_n810i m more interested by the slide page 621:15
GeneralAntillesMicron only offers a 256MB PoP without the NAND.21:15
johnx_GeneralAntilles, my sources say no21:15
Khertan_n810more at the devsesh 5 :)21:15
GeneralAntillesjohnx_, it depends.21:15
BlafaselHSPA would be nice21:16
konttoriwell, wimax is not so wide spread, and there seems to be unlimited data plans all over the place these days21:16
konttoriat least to me that sounds pretty good.21:17
johnx_HSPA without a huge price hike would be nice. so would a free lunch. too bad neither exist...21:17
GeneralAntilleskonttori, data'll be at least $30/mo.21:17
GeneralAntillesHere in the US.21:17
GeneralAntillesThat's more than I want to pay.21:17
konttoriwe have in finland 9 euros per month unlimited data on 3g21:17
GeneralAntillesI wouldn't care so much if they were offering a tablet WITHOUT the HSPA modem that I'm not going to use. . . .21:18
GeneralAntillesBut it doesn't sound particularly promising.21:18
konttorihow about the omap3?21:18
BlafaselHmm.. Data is 25 EUR here, I only cancelled it some days ago because of my mofo stupid carrier.21:18
GeneralAntillesEh, that's been expected for a while.21:18
GeneralAntillesNothing new there.21:18
Stskeepskonttori: expected - just hoping the battery life is just as good :P21:18
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, it will be.21:18
GeneralAntillesWell, we've got two extra cores in the game.21:19
GeneralAntillesSo the high-usage scenario may be a bit shorter21:19
konttoriwell, I would expect that the battery life would be. I don't think nokia would unlearn the linux power management overnight21:19
GeneralAntillesbut regular use should be the same life, if not better.21:19
GeneralAntillesWell, OMAP3 has almost the same consumption figures as OMAP221:19
GeneralAntillesat 2-3x the performance. :D21:19
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konttorisure. and that sounds pretty nice for flash on the browser21:20
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johnx_and video! and games!21:21
GeneralAntillesFlashy UI compositing effects.21:21
konttorido they mention anything about which omap3?21:21
GeneralAntillesBut there's pretty much no chance it wont be the OMAP343021:21
GeneralAntillesBut there's pretty much no chance it wont be the OMAP3440 is really a UMPC chip21:21
dystopiadata plans are cheap nowadays21:21
GeneralAntillesand the OMAP3420 and OMAP3410 are missing cores/have smaller LCD controllers.21:21
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GeneralAntillesdystopia, not cheap enough.21:22
GeneralAntillesand more expensive than just tethering for me.21:22
dystopiathen you go tether:-)21:22
GeneralAntillesand pay for an HSPA modem I wont use.21:22
konttoriso, are you saying it's either 3430 or 3440?21:22
* GeneralAntilles doesn't like paying for hardware that wont be used.21:22
dystopiaor don't buy the device21:22
GeneralAntilleskonttori, there's pretty much no chance of it being OMAP344021:22
dystopiaoh i get that all the time21:22
konttoriah. so, that leaves 3430?21:23
dystopiai get software free when i buy hardware21:23
GeneralAntillesIt's almost certainly (like, 99%) that it'll be OMAP343021:23
dystopianero, for example21:23
dystopiaor windows21:23
GeneralAntillesOMAP3430 is 600MHz, OMAP3440 is 800MHz21:23
dystopiaor SD card, or cables, or car mount kit21:23
GeneralAntillesThe voltage bump to get 800MHz is less than trivial.21:23
RST38hSo, anything new on that Jaaksi speech?21:24
GeneralAntillesRST38h, did you see the slides or the blog post?21:24
RST38hyes, but slide look very generic21:24
RST38hnothing in them really21:24
GeneralAntillesWell, they summarize the content of the speech pretty nicely.21:25
konttoriso, 3430 cannot be run on any greater speed than 600?21:25
johnx_Stskeeps, modest runs ok with different gtk themes...though it's missing a huge chunk of icons21:25
GeneralAntilleskonttori, well, the Pandora guys got the OMAP3530 (same chip, except missing a couple interfaces and slightly larger ball-pitch) up to 900MHz21:25
johnx_and since it's coded with only the hildon theme in mind some widgets are mis-sized21:25
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GeneralAntillesIt can be overclocked, but the chance of it just up and dying one day goes up fairly significantly.21:26
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RST38hBTW, those 900MHz or 600MHz will do you no good if your SDRAM is clocked at 100MHz21:26
johnx_and nokia will definitely ship a smaller, tighter system with less room for heat to go21:26
RST38hUnless, of course, you are running some video decoder that fits into cache, with data21:26
GeneralAntilles133MHz, RST38h.21:27
Stskeepsjohnx_: sounds interesting21:27
RST38hGAN: Low :( Cache sizes in these chips?21:27
* GeneralAntilles brainfarts.21:27
* GeneralAntilles digs up the Beagle hardware reference.21:28
RST38hFound it21:28
RST38hL1: 32 KB (ARM Cortex-A8)21:28
RST38hL2: 96 KB (DSP),256 KB (ARM Cortex-A8)21:28
RST38h256kB L2 is nice21:28
RST38hDoes not tell clocks per access for these though and whether they are joint or separate caches21:29
RST38hAh, found it. L1: 4-way associative 16kB I and D caches21:29
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Stskeepsjohnx_: screenshot?21:30
GeneralAntillesRST38h, this may be meaningful to you:
RST38h256kB L2 cache is unified21:31
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RST38hGAN: Seeing how far his C and Simd figures are, he is measuring code executing time =)21:32
hung_andrewHi, all. Such a question. How much tome does it take to fully charge your Nokia N810 from zero?21:32
hung_andrewhow much time21:32
GeneralAntilleshung_andrew, 30 minutes to 80%, 2.5 hours to 100%21:32
RST38hLater he quotes 168MB/s and 190MB/s21:33
GeneralAntilles2-3 hours total.21:33
hung_andrewthank you all, this is my first N810 charging21:33
johnx_Stskeeps, finding a section of my mail I don't mind putting in a screenie :)21:33
RST38hHis effective rate is 47.5 million accesses per second21:34
Stskeepsjohnx_: viagra spam ;)21:34
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RST38hWell, it probably comes down to 133MHz you quoted21:34
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GeneralAntillesbtw, Ari may have let slip the new term.21:38
GeneralAntilles"multimedia computer"21:38
Stskeepsthat's .. so 90s?21:39
RST38hGAN: This is the term they used to refer to N95 initially21:39
RST38hIt is not new21:39
johnx_have to figure out why localization didn't take...21:39
Stskeepsjohnx_: hehe, funky21:39
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GeneralAntillesYeah, "may"21:40
GeneralAntillesIt's in the blog post.21:40
RST38hGAN: The had to scrap it last time as it confused potential buyers21:40
johnx_Stskeeps, yeah, but it works!21:40
Stskeepsjohnx_: maybe localization is seperated out into sapwood too or something21:40
RST38h"What do you mean 'computer'? It is not a phone?" :)21:40
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GeneralAntillesMore appropriate for a tablet21:40
Stskeepsi think internet tablet would be just as good really, even with 3g :P21:40
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RST38hyep, although somehow I doubt it will fly for the tablet either =(21:41
RST38hquite a lot of "normal people" (tm) consider computer dull21:41
johnx_Stskeeps, nah...sapwood is just for caching/drawing pixmaps...thank god21:41
GeneralAntillesThey should just call it a "magic box"21:41
RST38hThe Pad!21:42
RST38hJust copy those damn StarTrek datapads already! =)21:42
Getkeysthey could call it the "NIT", where NIT would stand for NIT Is a Tablet21:42
Stskeepsthink usability studies on those showed they were.. horrid21:42
RST38hNIT is a measurement unit for light, I think21:43
RST38hSts: Actually, they have been designed for the series by a professional UI designer21:43
johnx_also a small bug, IIRC21:43
dystopia'just give me the box'21:43
RST38hSts: this is why they look usable enoug21:43
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Getkeysor !Phone21:44
johnx_always funny to see the big, clunky computers of star trek from 10-15 years ago :)21:44
dystopia'shall i describe it to you, or do you need a box' bah im sure someone can come up with a good quote referring to device21:44
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Stskeepsi call my tablet my device21:44
Stskeepsatleast when speaking to the gf..21:44
dystopiaN810 i call patched magic hat21:44
GeneralAntillesjohnx_, it makes me sad that I can see that the datapads are just decals. :(21:45
dystopiaN800 i refer to as twin towel21:45
RST38hSts: at least you are not calling it your precioussss21:45
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StskeepsRST38h: .. sometimes ;>21:48 icons with the hildon-icons theme in debian21:48
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johnx_I had localization working before in debian beta221:49
johnx_but for now, time to call it a night21:49
* Stskeeps goes rewrite the postdebootstrap part of installer21:50
johnx_heh...even the color select works for writing in annoying colors in your html emails21:51
* johnx_ really sleeps21:51
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hung_andrewHello, again. How long does it take to flash my N810  tablet to RX-44_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14 under Windows?21:54
GeneralAntilles~20 seconds for the flashing21:54
GeneralAntillesHowever long it takes you to download ~128MB to download ~128MB21:54
hung_andrewcool. thank you all, guys21:55
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* GeneralAntilles shakes his head.22:43
lcukjott, are you about22:44
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GeneralAntillesWhen you do unsupported things, you get unsupported behaviors.22:49
Stskeepsyou searched for 'red pill'? :P22:49
GeneralAntillesNo, it was in the recent changes search.22:50
Stskeepsdoesn't red pill just give more trouble than gain really? i mean, from what i understand of it, it just converts app manager into synaptic with all gory details on22:51
Stskeepsand that's for people who can't do apt-get22:51
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GeneralAntillesYes, only people who understand it should use it22:52
GeneralAntillesand he clearly doesn't understand it.22:52
yergaGeneralAntilles, another similar bug reported for him:
GeneralAntillesyerga, he's full of them.22:53
sp3000GeneralAntilles: meh, re 3722 it's reasonable enough to request that it be documented on the red pill page in the wiki22:55
GeneralAntillesThat's hardly a bugzilla issue.22:55
GeneralAntillesI'm probably a bit biased against him22:56
GeneralAntillesas I'm really goddamn tired of his endless streams of useless bugs.22:56
GeneralAntilles"Let's put 6 issues into 1 bug report, then whine about 3 other unrelated things."22:57
sp3000almost useless is ok22:57
sp3000yeah, the presentation isn't optimal22:57
GeneralAntillesIt wouldn't be so bad if he'd figure it out.22:57
GeneralAntillesThey're the type of bugs that require the maximum amount of effort from the triager.22:58
GeneralAntillesThey're not quite bad enough that you can just mark them as INVALID22:58
GeneralAntillesbut they're not quite good enough that making useful bugs out of them is a reasonable proposition.22:58
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hrwGeneralAntilles: will you be on summit?23:14
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GeneralAntillesNah, not making this one.23:14
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GeneralAntillesHello, lardman__.23:56
lardman__hi GeneralAntilles23:57
lardman__it's been a long day, home at last :)23:57
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derflardman__: Looked at the QR code stuff I checked in yet?23:57
lardman__derf: I've been at a conf I'm afraid, hardly had time to check my email23:58
GeneralAntilleslardman__, I was noticing that the sprint review is still planned for Friday on the wiki.23:59
GeneralAntillesSomebody should poke Quim about that.23:59
GeneralAntillesSomehow I don't think a ~1-2 hour review is gonna fit into that tight schedule.23:59

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