IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2008-09-15

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AlystairStskeeps: Huh what I'm not good at this :(00:00
StskeepsAlystair: there's something like a personal area network thing for the 800/810 atleast, maybe it works for 770 too00:00
AlystairI want to make a custom kiosk app that works over a private BT channel, because I might be too lazy to create GUI in python :P00:01
AlystairI know html/js inside out, heh00:01
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* Alystair tries it00:02
Stskeepsos2008 only though00:02
Alystairrealistically all I need this damn 770 to do is connect over BT and use html/js for a point of sale system. I don't need any other magical functionality... could I use 2008HE for this? Is performance really bad?00:03
Stskeepsthink so - no clue about performance00:03
Stskeepsdon't have a 770 :P00:04
Alystairok, other question then. Can the built-in browser be rotated in 2008?00:04
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AlystairEg. portrait instead of landscape.00:04
Alystairor any other 3rd party.00:05
Stskeepsin mine it can, but that has a special x server installed for that that i'm not sure 770 does have support for00:05
* Stskeeps watches Alystair explode00:05
AlystairI won't explode, just being impatient because I know "proper" point of sales systems would be huge :)00:06
Alystairok, now for the most odd question ever. Do you know of any bluetooth vibrators similar to the ones in normal cellphones?00:07
Stskeepsno, but i'm sure there's a sex shop selling it00:07
Stskeeps(i'm not kidding.)00:07
Alystairin a restaurant environment I can't have tablets going "ding", there should be silent methods of communication00:07
Alystairargh I didn't mean it that way STS :)00:07
Stskeepsand i know, but i'm quite certain theres some techno pervert designing those00:08
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Alystairhrm these could work
piguetHi! How do you edit an existing entry at Downloads (e.g. for a new release)?00:10
jrayhawkLinux has native support for the PS2 trance vibrator, which works over USB with some wiring.00:10
Stskeepswhy BT and not wifi btw?00:10
Stskeepsit seems like a much simpler solution00:10
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Alystairit mainly comes down to security00:11
Stskeeps(as in, the connect over BT)00:11
Stskeepsuse SSL ..00:11
Alystairand battery power?00:11
StskeepsBT isn't a single bit more secure00:11
Stskeepsbluetooth is worse at that really00:11
jrayhawkHow so?00:11
Stskeepsmy n800 can stay at least over a day on wifi if it idles a lot00:11
jrayhawkOh, in that regard.00:11
Stskeepsjrayhawk: pin code stuff vs highly protected WPA2 networks? :P00:12
Stskeepswith that and ssl, it's hard to get into00:12
Stskeepsalso bt distance is problematic00:12
jrayhawkWPA2, BT, and SSL all use the same key mechanisms.00:12
Alystairthat is an advantage actually00:12
jrayhawkWell, SSL *can* use the same key mechanisms...00:13
Alystairwhy would you want the connection to work outside the pub? :)00:13
Stskeepsyou can turn down transmitter power on wifi aps you know00:13
jrayhawkSSL's is actually more flexible, but not particularly different from a security standpoint, just an administration one.00:13
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AlystairI like the idea of it working over BT because it's really unheard of and the chances of someone messing it up with their laptop is less likely00:14
AlystairWEP can be broken easily, and there any many sniffing apps out there for wifi already...00:14
StskeepsAlystair: bluetooth dongles sending out noise? has happened :P00:14
lbtStskeeps is right. BT isn't 'more secure' than wifi00:14
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lbtboth can be attacked physically using transmitters00:15
Alystairbut it... it's more geeky, think of the cred D:00:16
lbtthing is, you'd probably have to do more yourself to make BT as secure as wifi - and judging by your questions here you'd fail (no offence)00:16
jrayhawkHow's that?00:16
Alystairnone taken00:17
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Stskeeps <- and that was what my weekend went with00:20
Alystairso is there any trick that I can do on the 770 to rotate the browser into portrait?00:21
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jrayhawkNot easily. There are means of doing so with xrandr, but hildon definitely won't like it and the xserver00:24
jrayhawkprobably won't00:24
jrayhawkargh there is a cockatiel pressing enter for me00:24
jrayhawkscrew you, cockatiel00:24
AlystairA parrot?00:24
jrayhawkyes i am babysitting it and it likes my keyboard00:25
piguetAnybody here has submitted an app to Downloads?00:25
jrayhawkso you'd need your own xserver and window manager00:25
jrayhawkit would probably be pretty trivial if you were using deblet00:26
Stskeeps(which isn't out for 770 just yet)00:26
Stskeepsbut in some months i hope00:26
Stskeepsthe ground work is there already00:27
Alystairwell my requirements should be pretty easy. Kiosk style lock down, nice web browser in reverse portrait, wireless connectivity.00:27
Alystairreverse portrait meaning physical buttons at the bottom :)00:27
rm_youdoable on an N8x0 >_>00:28
jrayhawkYou can use a debian chroot system and xephyr00:28
Alystairrm_you: yeah except I don't want to shell out $200+ per device when a single restaurant requires at least 3 tablets that can be made "dumb resistant"00:28
Alystairthe 770 is perfect :P00:29
AlystairDoes nokia still produce them?00:29
rm_youout of curiosity00:29
rm_youi know you can rotate widgets... could you make a program with a rotated browser widget? >_>00:29
Alystairrotate widgets?00:30
rm_youlike buttons, text, etc00:30
AlystairFBreader can be rotated!00:30
rm_youany GTK widget can be rotated IIRC00:30
rm_youfairly easily00:30
rm_youwhat about a gtk webkit widget?00:30
rm_youor whatever the GTK web component is called00:30
StskeepsAlystair: i'd say gtkmozembed + debian chroot + xephyr could to the trick maybe .. or a webkit widget00:30
Stskeepssleep time00:30
Alystairthanks for the help, have a good one00:31
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lcukrm_you, are you sure they can be rotated?00:31
rm_youwe do it in ABL00:31
jottwe rotate text not the widget :)00:31
rm_youwell, not a web widget00:31
housetierdo these devices have a video out signal?00:31
rm_youbut, a web widget is just a widget00:31
* lcuk can rotate text00:31
lcuki have just had a nightmare evening :)00:32
rm_youdoes it only apply to text?00:32
jottwell abl uses pango to rotate the text.00:32
lcukrm_you, more specifically, just a specific caption on specific controls i would expect00:32
jotthousetier: you wish :( - no.00:32
lcukunless there was some lower level magic goin on00:32
housetierjott, ok we'll improvise using the drill stand then00:33
housetiernow I only need my crew here on the space station, and a cheap print shop for t-shirts00:33
lcukcan i enlist half your crew to learn my software and expand it with the nits i need00:34
* lcuk has not a lot of coding time left and a lot of things to do00:34
housetierif I get half of your crew as new members we could strike a deal00:34
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lcuki could spare one of the kids00:35
lcukdo you want the older more gobby one, or the younger one who wees a lot?00:35
housetierand my crew is small and doesn't necessarily know how to hack00:35
housetierwhats "gobby"?00:36
housetiercan't find it at dict.cc00:36
lcukanswers back, thinks hes always right..00:36
lcukhas to have the final word00:36
lcukinfact, hes just like his mum00:36
housetierah no that wouldn't work out, I like to have the final word myself00:37
lcukno you don't00:37
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* XTL just watched a scene in the Tripods he remembers seeing in the 80's00:37
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lcukat least my grid view is working again now00:38
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RST38hok, I am abandoning the idea of using hw blitting in windowed mode00:42
RST38htoo screwy00:42
jottfullscreen mode is better for gaming anyway :)00:43
AlystairI wonder if there is a way to pair a macbook with the 770 and use it as an external keyboard? :P00:45
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Alystair(for the 770)00:45
RST38hbut if anyone can tell me how to get the absolute position of the client window area, I am willing to listen00:45
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jottRST38h: XGetWindowProperty?00:49
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jottor XGetGeometry?00:52
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RST38hjott: nah00:59
jottmh: (00:59
RST38hit is freaking GTK. it works differently00:59
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Alystairhaha maybe I could install Synergy on the 770?01:00
jottRST38h: aah in gtk. gdk_window_get_origin ?01:02
lcukheh, i hadnt thought of that, ive just cleaned my 810 with a soft cloth and a small amount of wd40 :) i even cleaned my stylustip with the same wd40 cloth (really not loads) and it glides along now01:03
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RST38hjott: it is more complicated01:16
RST38hjott: looks like I am getting position of the left upper corner - the title01:16
RST38hanyways, it is 2:17am, sleep time01:16
Luriais there an maemo email client with gpg/pgp key management?01:17
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acydlordgotta love when a window pops up while typing01:23
lcukacydlord, my IDE kept trying to pop up and tell me about updates - it thought it was clever and would popup when it didnt have focus - but the bastard made me clicky anyway01:25
lcuki hate blind dialogs01:25
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* brontide need to not procrastinate so much01:30
acydlordi find it odd that microsoft webcams are more compatible with linux than logitech webcams01:32
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brontidethey do make a nice mouse as well01:59
Mekanyone know if there is a repository that has hildon-initscripts 1.16-1?02:01
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Mekbah, (not surprisingly) the current maemo qt packages don't seem to include the mysql sql plugin :)02:07
lcukmek, but mysql is available for maemo02:10
lcuki think02:10
Meklcuk: is it, where?02:10
Mekfor now I built my own mysql packages...02:11
lcukhang on though, got a more serious problem02:11
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lcuki just shutdown my machine (long press on power) then restarted and its telling me it cant do stuff cos of low memory02:11
lcukit did not shutdown02:11
lcuk\@/ gah why is there no poweroff for this device02:11
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Mekpull the battery? :P02:12
lcukthats what i normally do, but i try to trust when people tell me it shuts everything off02:12
lcukthe back is flimsy enough that you can bend it when pushing back into place02:13
derflcuk: Unplug it and _then_ shut it down.02:13
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lcukbut thats not even fully off from what i can gather02:13
derfIt actually powers down as long as it's not on AC power.02:13
lcukill try that next time then, i did forget about it being on charge02:14
derflcuk: Looked at any of the QR code stuff I checked in yet?02:15
lcukno im mad busy with liqbase02:15
lcukand all the other family stuff that happens02:16
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Mekhmm... is giving me an error that it can't reach when I try to get to some page :)02:16
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m-c-Is there a program to record on the NIT in vorbis?02:52
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derfThere's gstreamer... not sure if there's a dedicated program for it.02:55
derfThough I think latest ogg support is decode-only.02:56
brontidelcuk: You in Berlin this week?02:57
brontideWill be nice to put real face on people02:57
lcukyeah it always is :)02:58
brontideYou will get done with liqbase in time for the 3d hardware to appear02:59
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lcukno hassle, the graphics dont concern me any longer, i think theres enough grunt in this existing device to do what i need03:00
lcukobviously having more will be good, and can be used to great effect, but my time with this device has been extremely useful so far: ive learnt all about c again, ive grasped enough of linux to do things and im learning about multi platform code03:01
lcukall pluses :)03:01
brontideyes, one of the reason I've been doing my stuff in python is that it allows me to produce without going insane with SB and the like03:02
lcuki dont use sb :)03:02
brontidestraight cross compile?03:02
lcuknative compilation on device03:02
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brontideahhh... SD boot with the dev repos?03:03
lcukno, standard plus required packages and an sd formatted to ext somethin or other03:03
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brontideI'm hoping to catch the QEMU Maemo discussion so I might setup something like that without mucking up my n810 too much03:04
lcuki would love to have an arm desktop03:05
* brontide doesn't have to think that hard to figure out which side crashanddie is on03:06
MekI guess the beagle-board is the closest to an arm desktop currently available?03:06
lcukyer mek it is03:06
brontideat $150 it's a real steal for the hardware hacker03:06
lcukbut its not really got the oob experience03:06
lcuki dont want to hack it03:06
lcuki just want to use it03:06
brontidepicky picky picky03:06
brontideThere were photos floating around with maemo on beagle board03:07
crashanddiethe beagle board lacks two things: serious connectivity (networking, bluetooth, whatever), and serious connectivity (I2C, RS232, etc)03:07
lcukim not picky, just got more important things to do that i would prefer someone else to do03:07
crashanddieyou want someone else to take care of your important stuff?03:08
lcukprefer to pay someone03:08
* lcuk is dropping words now03:08
crashanddieheh :P03:08
lcuki think im a bit overtired03:08
crashanddielcuk, Eli arriving tomorrow \o/03:08
brontidesleep is good... sometime I'll get around to it03:08
lcukeli as in curvy and single?03:09
crashanddielcuk, Eli as the girl you saw a picture of03:09
m-c-Is there a NIT conference happening soon?03:09
crashanddiesingle, so and so... We'll see about that after the 2nd bottle :D03:09
crashanddiem-c-, next week, lol03:09
crashanddielcuk, do you believe in God?03:10
* m-c- sees topic.03:10
m-c-Would be great if someone made their notes online03:11
lcukive not even made my notes offline03:11
crashanddielcuk, is that going to happen?03:11
lcukinfact, ive not even made my program offline03:11
lcukcrashanddie, believing in god?03:11
crashanddiehaven't got time to finish what you wanted to finish then, I gather?03:11
lcukcrashanddie, ive been a bit delayed :)03:11
crashanddielcuk, aww03:11
lcukits ok, i have plenty and can open plenty more up that ive sidelined for now03:12
crashanddielcuk, is streaming to the server working?03:12
m-c-Here's a topic for discussion next week --->  Ogg Support03:13
crashanddieoh for fuck's sake03:13
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m-c-crashanddie, You got something against that?03:14
crashanddieAnnouncement to everyone: Please allow the OGG support to die graciously and without pain. You're not allowed to be raised from the dead 200 times unless you're called Michael Jackson03:14
crashanddieOGG support will come when it will come. EOL03:14
baabai thought ogg support was stillborn03:15
MakeGhowhat's wrong with ogg support?03:15
lcukbut moaning about OGG is one of the great pasttimes of linux enthusiasts03:15
baabaor coming around the same time as duke nukem forever03:15
crashanddielcuk, You know what I like so much about Linux fundamentalists/fanboys?03:16
crashanddielcuk, they always miss the point. The miss every single time.03:16
crashanddielcuk, They could stick a shotgun up my arse and pull the trigger, they'd still miss.03:16
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lcuki think that says more about your goatse'esq arse than their aim03:16
* Mek hopes for crashanddie nobody brings his/her shotgun to the summit to test that theory :P03:17
crashanddieMek, won't be at the Summit03:17
crashanddieyou said it buddy03:17
m-c-What is it that the fanboys miss?03:17
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lcukthats a small target03:18
* lcuk zooms in03:18
* lcuk gets closer03:18
MakeGhois that the object that's being pointed to with the shotgun?03:19
lcuk( keep out! )03:19
m-c-I am dying to know - each time I select a Ogg file in the file manager and have to scroll down three screens of programs to select Media Player - Ogg03:19
lcukm-c-, you can do something most other linux folks do at some point in life: make your own media player.  call it "a****" so it comes at the top of the list03:19
lcukyou have your niche :)03:19
baaba#/bin/sh \ gst-launch playbin url="${1}"03:21
crashanddielcuk, can't zoom in anymore?03:21
crashanddie   _03:21
crashanddie /   \03:21
crashanddie |    |03:21
crashanddie \ _ /03:21
lcukffs, i'm not google earth you know03:21
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m-c-Hey, you know what, I bought the nokia internet tablet to play Ogg Vorbis podcasts.03:23
MakeGhoI wish there was a working latex compiler :(03:23
lcukMakeGho, cant you just build one?03:23
mikkov_m-c: have you installed mogg?03:24
crashanddielcuk, hit the zoom button again03:24
crashanddie*clickety click*03:25
crashanddieWe are sorry, but we don't03:25
crashanddiehave imagery at this zoom03:25
crashanddie level for this region.03:25
crashanddie Try zooming out for a03:25
crashanddie     broader look.03:25
MakeGholcuk: hmm, I don't have a development environment set up and I doubt I would succeed in compiling the latex compiler03:25
m-c-Yes, and the integration is terrible - and it should be by default03:25
lcukMakeGho, mention it more often then - post something on itT, someone might get a bit of inclination to do it if you start the ball rolling03:25
lcuki gather you have searched google for a maemo package already03:26
MakeGhoyup, I've been searching. There's one for N800 but I think it's been reported not to work on N81003:26
MakeGhomaybe it's some older os version it wants? I don't know much about these03:26
lcukpost something on itT and give links to the one you have found and if someone is nice they might compile it up and push it into extras03:27
m-c-With Firefox coming out with the next version supporting Ogg/Vorbis and Ogg/Theora -- seems like an important issue to discuss next week.03:27
lcukm-c-, we will have to wait and see what next week brings03:28
lcukim hoping to see lots of new stuff not grumble about what we dont have03:28
MakeGhowhoa, I guess I just found something that didn't grab my attention earlier. I'll have to try this one :)03:29
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lcukon error resume bacon03:29
lcukback tomorrow or something03:29
crashanddieI'd love to have Java on my NIT03:29
lcukcrashanddie, have a good evening dude03:29
crashanddiepublic void foo() throws (Bacon)03:30
lcukWOW brontide03:30
lcuki dont let coffee get anywhere near my NIT03:30
crashanddielcuk, 'night bro, good night03:31
crashanddiedon't ask me why I said night 2 times03:31
lcukyer, java03:31
lcuklol crash03:31
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brontideahh, I woudn't mind more language binding, but let's get the C/C++ ones cleaned up and documented first03:32
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* lcuk ties smackpotato to a lamppost03:40
brontideBrrrr... looks like a cold week for me03:40
brontideBerlin is listing highs in the low 60F this week03:41
smackpotatowhats the latest with the tablet03:41
brontideit's small03:42
smackpotatoand fast03:42
brontideand then came the dinosaurs03:42
smackpotatogood tablets arnt deprndent on size03:42
smackpotatoanyone travel alot with it03:44
smackpotatomine hasnt left my recroom03:44
brontideMine is going to germany on Tuesday03:45
brontideTravels several miles a day in my pocket walking to and from work03:45
smackpotatodo nyou track your path with the gps03:46
lcukcan i pre-download maps for germany now?03:46
lcukstandard map tool03:46
lcuki was left out in the middle of the ocean last time i left the country03:47
brontideYep, germany/alps is ~300mb03:47
lcuki can ummm remap the folder location to somewhere on mmc1 cant i03:47
brontideneat import inspect;print inspect.getsource(function)... that will come in handy for the demo03:48
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brontideMy only concern is getting it back into the country... with TSA you never know03:50
tank-manyou should complain to your airline :)03:51
brontideDelta... ha, I'll be lucky I don't get stuck in standing room only for the 9hr flight03:52
smackpotatoive got to get a pasport ive been putting off filling out the forms03:53
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else58on os2008.8-updates, I can manually get wpa_supplicant to work if i kill the dbus (-u) version and quickly start it manually with the correct options04:50
else58ooops, wrong window04:50
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* robink waits for lightmediascanner0-ogg to make it into the Diablo extras repository.05:21
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AFBN810Hey somehow I moved my icons to the right side of my screen how do i get them back05:42
t_s_oerr, what icons?05:45
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AFBN810internet and all off them05:46
t_s_oah the sidebar thats normally on the left side?05:46
t_s_onot really sure. i think there may be a file somewhere...05:47
AFBN810wonder if it has something to do with rotate05:48
t_s_ocould be05:48
t_s_oi have stayed well away from that ;)05:48
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brontidet_s_o: you didn't install the rotate enabled xserver, basically you need to rotate back... worst case hold down the power button and when you start it up again you will be notmal05:52
t_s_obrontide: not my problem, but i guess AFBN810 is happy for the answer ;)05:53
* brontide need that sleep people keeps talking about05:53
t_s_oheh, im on usa time or something. or maybe i should say internet time?05:54
t_s_oi keep the same hours as a owl...05:55
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* brontide is on est, but fatherhood has slowed my night owl activities06:01
t_s_oheh, more like grab sleep while possible? ;)06:04
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* robink hopes metacrawler doesn't run out of memory.06:31
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robinkt_s_o: Using metacrawler instead of lightmediascanner-ogg to scan my OGG files.06:41
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robinkt_s_o: It often runs out of memory.06:45
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robinkoops meant metalayer-crawler07:10
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RST38hAnybody encountered a situation where links found in GMail emails do not open from gmail? They "load" forever with white screen07:49
RST38h(it is FireFox on Windows or Linux BTW]07:49
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Jareduhey can someone give me the link to the base theme/psd file with images so i can start making n810 themes?08:06
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie, both I2C and RS232 are available on the Beagle. . . .08:15
Jareduanyone know? :(08:15
Jaredusomeone was nice enough to give me the link the other day..08:15
GeneralAntillesIt's bundled with kontorri's theme maker, I think.08:16
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robinkArgh, metadata-crawler keeps dying and respawning.08:18
Jareduhey can someone give me the link to the base theme/psd file with images so i can start making n810 themes?08:18
GeneralAntillesJaredu, if they gave it to you yesterday, why don't you just check the logs?08:19
robinkWill it ever give up?08:19
Jaredui dont have logs08:19
Jareduwasnt here08:19
Jaredupidgin died08:19
Alystairif I'm making a point of sale application for the 770, is there any reason I should get a 2nd one during development?08:21
AlystairI could just fake one by sending commands from the PC, right?08:21
Jaredudo g++ or emacs work on the n810?08:23
robinkJaredu: Yes.08:25
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Jareduthe zaurus arm platform version of bsd could easilyish be ported to n81008:28
Jaredubecause n810 runs on the arm architecture08:28
chirpsalotn810 is a newer chip08:28
Jaredusame architecture though08:29
chirpsalotI doubt it'd work still08:29
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GeneralAntillesXscale is armv508:30
qnr-ltthat reminds me, are there any Atari 8-bit or Atari ST emulators ported to the N800?08:30
GeneralAntillesThe OMAP2420 is ARM11, which is armv608:30
GeneralAntillesarmv5's gonna be slower08:31
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* qnr-lt gets off is posterior and searches08:32
Jaredunot bad08:33
RST38hGA: The actual performance is usually determined by SDRAM speed/efficiency08:33
qnr-lthmm, well they have a Commodore and Apple, so I guess I might be able to port an Atari 8-bit08:34
qnr-ltthank you GeneralAntilles08:34
RST38hOMAP is already much faster than SDRAM it has to access08:34
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Jareduwould there be a way to increase capacity of the flash ram?08:34
Jaredui know it can do like 25608:34
Jaredubut would there be a way to bump it to a gig?08:34
GeneralAntillesThe NAND?08:35
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, boot-sd is
rm_youWas ist die wetter in Berlin?08:35
Jaredualso, is there something similar to gimp for n810? ;)08:35
summatusmentisyou can get the gimp directly if you install debian08:35
Jareduit would be incredibly slow from what i see though... but it'd work?08:36
RST38hJaredu: no gimp yet08:36
RST38hthere is MyPaint but it is a pain to use08:36
StsN800Jaredu, try easy debian08:36
RST38hwould be nice to have something even remotely as good as gimp though08:36
Jareduanyone seen this?
GeneralAntillesMyPaint has potential08:37
JareduStsN800: easy debian?08:37
GeneralAntillesIt needs some radical interface redesign, though.08:37
chirpsalotactually RST38h, ansi C works on the n810 correct?08:37
GeneralAntillesYes, Jaredu, we've all seen that.08:37
Jaredummk :P08:37
GeneralAntilleschirpsalot, it's Linux.08:37
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Alystairuh how do I test flash on the 77008:37
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Alystair(Adobe Flash, not firmware stuff)08:37
StsN800Jaredu, youtube for debian n810 methinks08:38
chirpsalotGeneralAntilles which means anyone can screw it up anyway they want -.-, look at the mylo :), no C08:38
GeneralAntillesMost of the platform is in C.08:38
Jaredui know theres mytube fordebian08:39
chirpsalotso in theory I could write a painting prog for it with C?08:39
Jareduim in the process of watching every youtube video there is about n810 ;)08:39
Alystaireg. the web browser can't load flash?08:39
GeneralAntillesHey, look, there's a C program right there!
Jaredui have a mylo08:39
Jaredumylo 2 rather08:39
Alystairis there a dedicated flash player app I can use?08:39
Jareduit's nice but im getting an n810 too since its open and more apps08:39
GeneralAntillesAlystair, mplayer for flvs08:40
Jaredu<3 the keyboard though so far... is the keyboard on the n810 easy to type on?08:40
Jaredui can do about 50-70wpm on mylo if thats any reference08:40
Alystairno, not for flvs08:40
GeneralAntilleschirpsalot, read:
StsN800Alystair, try gtkmozembed stuff08:40
StsN800closest thing08:41
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GeneralAntilleschirpsalot, out of interest, the platform being GTK, what in the world else would you use?08:41
chirpsalotGeneralAntilles rofl python :P08:42
GeneralAntilles. . .08:42
GeneralAntillesThe next question, why do you think you _wouldn't_ be able to use C?08:42
chirpsalotbut I mean GeneralAntilles, just because it's linux, doesn't mean it has everything any other linux does, and quite frankly the fact that the mylo won't do custom C stuff scares me :P08:42
GeneralAntillesMylo is a closed piece of crap08:43
chirpsalotI have mylo stereotypes? :)08:43
* Jaredu pets his mylo 2 consolingly.08:43
* Jaredu refreshes his n810 order page.08:43
chirpsalotJaredu, you're selling it -.- XD08:43
Jaredui might08:43
Jaredumylo still has better camera08:43
GeneralAntillesYou can run whatever the hell you want on Maemo.08:43
GeneralAntillesIt's not a closed system.08:43
chirpsalotjust wasn't sure of the capabilities08:44
AlystairAHA nice got VNC working08:44
JareduGeneralAntilles: are there any specific guidelines/restrictions on porting apps for the tablet?08:44
JareduAlystair: congrats08:44
Jaredui think i like mypaint o.O08:44
Jareduthe interface.. appeals to me08:44
Jaredumight work nice for storyboard class08:44
GeneralAntillesJaredu, make them fit within the resolution, storage, RAM and CPU limitation of a mobile device?08:45
* Jaredu now has an excuse for his teacher to buy a bluetooth printer08:45
JareduGeneralAntilles: i was kinda referring to it being a touch based device rather than mouse input with a slightly different keyboard mapping and such08:45
Jareduas far as porting existing apps goes that is08:45
* GeneralAntilles wonders if should really still be up.08:47
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Alystairis there a "ctrl alt del" equivilant for this tablet, if remotely connected?08:47
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Jaredueep big pdf file lol08:47
Alystairto force quit the currently active program?08:47
robinkAlystair: pkill?08:48
GeneralAntilleskillall <application name>08:48
Alystairdang why can't I type via VNC08:49
Jareduone of the main reason im switching from mylo to n810 is the damned "out of memory error"08:49
Alystairjeeze you don't really get the idea of the resolution on this screen until you VNC in08:51
Jareduhow so08:51
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GeneralAntillesThough the Mylo 2 has a scarily higher dpi08:51
Jaredubut it makes photos nice08:51
Jaredu65k color is meh in comparison to comp though in some respects08:52
Jareduim assuming it looks very nice when vnc08:52
Jaredu'ed in?08:52
Jareduwhere is that dumb psd file O_O08:53
GeneralAntillesI told you, check konttori's theme maker08:55
GeneralAntillesit should be in that package. . . .08:55
Jaredudidnt see it08:55
AlystairJaredu: photoshop for 770 ;)08:55
Alystairvia Xen emulator08:56
Alystairin windows vista.08:56
Alystairthis is going to take a while.08:56
Alystairjk :P08:56
* Jaredu wonders if he can ssh and run 3ds max 08:56
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Jaredui think im going to enjoy making themes :D08:57
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Alystairman this community is so messy :(09:01
Alystairthere's no "one place" for everything, or a clean global repo09:02
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GeneralAntillesAlystair, you're using a 770.09:02
GeneralAntillesIt's old and unsupported.09:02
Jareduthis is true09:02
Alystairbut it's cheap :(09:02
GeneralAntillesThe point is, don't extrapolate things about the community as it is now from a 770 perspective.09:02
Alystairthat's the ONLY reason I want to use it, because I can pick these things up for $75-100 a piece09:02
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Alystairand use them as dumb terminals for this POS system I'm making ;/09:03
Jaredua few things about this theme template are bugging me..09:04
Jareduespecially the non-full layout functionality09:04
Jaredulike everything is rounded on the corners09:04
StskeepsJaredu: it's so children can't hurt themselves on the screen objects.09:05
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* Jaredu has a sword and weapons collection.09:05
Jaredui like sharp objects..09:06
* Jaredu isn't kidding.09:06
AlystairI miss old school perspective pixel art :)09:06
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Jaredui will have to begin on my theme once i get the n81009:09
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Jaredui have to find where all these buttons go and their limitations09:09
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AlystairDoes nokia still produce the 770 or is it all old stock online?09:17
Jaredu old stock i believe09:18
AlystairBad for my business model then... heh09:18
johnxespecially since they have a habit of going WSOD...09:18
Alystairunless you could tell me of a different tablet that has wireless and costs only $100 a pop :P09:18
Jaredun800 costs only like 130$/pop on ebay09:19
johnxonly $100 a pop...that makes it somewhat difficult09:19
AlystairWhat. No it doesn't.09:19
JareduNO tablet costs 100$/pop and has all those features lol09:19
AlystairJaredu: I'd love to see where you got that number :)09:20
Jaredufrom ebay09:20
Jareduwas bidding09:20
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Jareduone going for about 140$ right now09:21
Jaredustill 10h left09:21
AlystairI don't see it.09:21
Jareduwas a couple days ago though09:21
rm_youjohnx: sup :)09:21
Jaredui tend to find nice deals :P09:21
Jaredufor example09:21
Jaredui got my samsung blast phone for 70$09:22
johnxhey rm_you :D09:22
Jareduit retails in my store for 235 :P09:22
rm_youflying out at noon tomorrow >_<09:22
rm_youtechnically today, I guess09:22
johnxrm_you, madness :D09:22
johnxthat should be quite awesome09:22
rm_you12-14 hours of airplane >_<09:22
Alystairif I get my stuff working on a 770 it would fly on a 800 :)09:23
GeneralAntillesJust 12-14? :P09:23
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johnxguh...just got done with a 9+ hour trip by night bus09:24
Alystairdo the 800/810 have a vibration function?09:24
Jaredudont think so09:24
Alystairthought so, not a big deal09:24
Jareduthere is a notification led on the ambient light sensor for stuff09:24
GeneralAntillesPlanet's not updating. . . .09:25
Alystairhrm I should really get SSH working so I can start dissecting this mofo09:25
johnxthey make usb powered things that ... uhm ... vibrate09:25
GeneralAntillesWhat's to get working?09:25
GeneralAntillesJust install OpenSSH09:25
Alystairsays connection refused when I try to port in09:26
GeneralAntillesDid you install OpenSSH server?09:26
GeneralAntillesDid you check to see if sshd is running?09:26
Alystairthe better question is if I accidently uninstalled it earlier :)09:27
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Alystairit's installed, just not running.09:27
johnxStskeeps, that's a fair number ...09:28
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Stskeepsjohnx: yeah, moving to a apt-based distribution with a minimal set built on the tablet09:29
Stskeeps(the non-free parts)09:29
Stskeepsmade real debian packages with dpkg-buildpackage'able etc :P09:29
AlystairI'm using Ed's metapackage with client/server09:30
Alystairhow do I start the daemon, I'm such a *nix newbie09:30
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johnxAlystair, /etc/init.d/ssh start09:32
johnxmost daemons have a start/stop script in /etc/init.d09:32
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Alystairugh I uninstalled it and now it says it cannot be installed even tho it ends up in the install section09:41
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johnxhi dontupanic09:48
dontupanicI had a could of questions on  an error I am getting09:49
dontupanicI am flashing my n81009:49
Jareduthat sucks :(09:50
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dontupanicis this the right channle?09:50
melmothyop. Maybe not the right time of day though :)09:50
dontupanicI could not sleep:)09:51
johnxsure, ask away09:52
dontupanicwell the error is " you have to supply the X-loader image"09:52
dontupanicthere are 4 lines09:53
dontupanicdo you mind copy and pasting?09:53
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_marcell_dontupanic: have you seen this wiki page about flashing: ?09:54
johnxcan you pastebin the whole output?09:54
rm_youjohnx: 9 hour nightbus? >_>09:55
rm_youthat would blow hard09:55
dontupanicsure what is the address09:55
rm_youairplane is probably immensely more comfortable :/09:55
infobot[~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : , , , ,
dontupaniccool hold on a sec09:56
AlystairIs the microb browser different from the one on the 770 by default?09:56
johnxAlystair, yes. very different09:56
johnxyou have an old version of opera09:56
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Alystairhow do I launch it?09:57
AlystairIt doesn't show up in the listing after installing it09:57
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GeneralAntillesLaunch what?09:57
johnxAlystair, you installed microb on which OS version? OS2006? OS2007HE?09:58
Alystairassume I have the oldest piece of crap by default from now on please :(09:58
GeneralAntillesYou can't install MicroB in OS2006.09:58
Alystairwhy did it say it was successful then :/09:59
johnxwill that even work?09:59
johnxAlystair, yes, because we love guessing when trying to help people09:59
johnxbecause another feature of the 770 is "telling lies that make you feel better about your purchase"10:00
JareduAlystair: getting this may solve your problems :
Jareduanyway imma go to bed10:00
GeneralAntillesThere's no way you installed MicroB on the 770.10:01
GeneralAntillesIt's simply not possible.10:01
johnxGeneralAntilles, are you sure?10:02
Alystairwas just curious10:02
GeneralAntillesEither you've actually got OS2007HE or OS2008HE installed and don't realize it10:02
GeneralAntillesor didn't actually install MicroB10:02
dontupanicsorry it took me so long10:02
GeneralAntillesdontupanic, you need to give us the command you used.10:03
johnxdontupanic, one last thing. what was the exact command you gave. you can just paste that into the channel10:03
dontupanic sudo ./flasher-3.0 -F RX-44_2008SE_1.2007.42-18_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R10:04
GeneralAntillesWhy are we flashing an older image?10:04
dontupanicOOOO I thought this was the latest one10:04
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GeneralAntillesPlease download the latest release from there.10:05
Alystairwell it installed but ruined the internal browser :D10:05
dontupanicI will look there now10:05
johnxAlystair, can you link the version you tried to install?10:06
GeneralAntilles_marcell_, ping.10:07
_marcell_GeneralAntilles: pong10:07
GeneralAntillesWhere's the maemo wiki link there supposed to go?10:07
Alystairjohnx: no idea what repo it came from..10:07
GeneralAntilles I assume10:07
Alystairsays it's 0.0.8-4, 7.22mb10:07
AlystairMicroB engine for OSSO browser10:07
_marcell_GeneralAntilles: I think so10:07
Alystaircategory: web10:07
_marcell_I will update the link then.10:08
GeneralAntillesThe link there probably needs to be changed, too.10:08
* timeless looks for andre__10:08
GeneralAntillesSince it's linking to the old wiki10:08
GeneralAntillesMaybe ?10:08
GeneralAntillesI dunno10:08
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, hi.10:09
Alystairwtf application manager says it cannot install OpenSSH, yet it vanishes from the list and is installed, or something.10:10
johnxAlystair, time to start poking around with apt I think10:11
t_s_oAlystair: you will probably find it under installed apps with a red and black icon next to it. basically its a indication of a broken install :(10:12
timelesshello x-fade10:12
* Alystair reboots the thing a few times10:14
_marcell_GeneralAntilles: I will change the other one to tools and if people do not like it they can complain and suggest somthing better.10:14
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t_s_oAlystair: thats a 770, yes? if so, i hope thats a software reboot your doing, or that its sertified non-wsod capable...10:23
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Alystairheh time to reflash, let's try 2007HE10:26
johnxAlystair, so, before you get too far into your PoS application. Do you understand what people mean they say "WSOD"?10:27
Alystairpermanently destroy?10:28
Alystairbricked by some sort of defect.10:28
johnxyeah, white screen of death. There is a finite chance everytime you hardware reboot or turn on from hardware off that a component of the LCD controller will die10:29
johnxagain, only a problem on the 77010:29
AlystairFun stuff :)10:29
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johnxa significant number of people have had their 770s die in that way10:29
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johnxand if you somehow still have a warranty on it, nokia will probably just send you a n800 as a replacement10:30
Alystairit doesn't.10:30
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Alystairwait, only due to WSOD?10:30
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johnxhmm? it's due to them not having 770s on hand I assume10:31
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RST38hmoo, all10:32
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Alystairwoot let's do this.10:34
* Alystair flashes 770 with 2007HE in the middle of a thunder storm with a faulty UPS10:35
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RST38hAlystair <-- closing in for a kill10:35
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AlystairRST38h: was that hunting humor or were you referring to booting me off freenode because I'm annoying you too much :(10:36
GeneralAntillesThat's you trying to kill your 770.10:37
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Alystairwhat is life supposed to be if not exciting. I can always pick up another 770 to mangle for dirt cheap.10:37
johnxso which other devices have you looked at Alystair?10:37
johnxand isn't a 770 a bit small for a PoS?10:38
GeneralAntillesNo smaller than the WinMob machines that frequently serve the job.10:38
GeneralAntillesThough, admittedly, those do have keypads.10:39
Alystair2007HE installed successfully10:39
Alystairthis isn't meant to replace the klunkers on the desks10:39 mobile PoS...I was thinking of this at the grocery store checkout10:39
Alystairthis is an "at table" solution for restaurants :D10:39
GeneralAntillesThat would be hilarious10:39
Alystairlmao johnx10:40
Alystairyou could have the media player make check out noises10:40
Alystairbeep ... beep beep10:40
johnxI was imagining the poor clerks pecking at it with a stylus10:40
Alystairand then randomly not scan :)10:40
GeneralAntillesActually, that wouldn't be terribly unworkable if you have external keyboard and ir scanner10:40
johnxwell, you've got lardman's barcode app...10:40
GeneralAntilless/ir //10:40
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Actually, that wouldn't be terribly unworkable if you have external keyboard and scanner10:40
AlystairI can't believe we are discussing this :P10:40
johnxyou started it, Alystair :P10:40
GeneralAntillesHeck, the grocery store I shop in only recently upgraded to real LCDs10:41
Alystairthe biggest joke is that the 770 is probably a lot faster than most POS terminals out there :)10:41
GeneralAntillesThey had little two-line PoS displays10:41
gomiamAlystair: me either. There's at least on PoS "solution" for the N770 out there, IIRC10:41
RST38hAlystair: It was related to the oncoming demise of your 770 =)10:41
Alystairok I'm already sold on the 2007HE, the SFX aren't nearly as annoying10:41
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GeneralAntillesI dunno, I was using 350MHz PII machines when I was working retail. . . . ;)10:42
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johnxas long as the software makes some kind of sense O_o10:42
* Alystair is a UI master10:42
johnxmmm...RFID at grocery stores would make for a brainless checkout10:43
Alystairyou could just have a chute to throw all your stuff down and it would all be automagically scanned, but could be abused by those in the know10:43
gomiamjohnx: and for brainless surveillance XD10:43
Alystairtinfoiled cabbages!10:43
GeneralAntillesWalk through a portal to have your whole cart scanned?10:43
johnxgomiam, meh...they already know what you buy10:44
* GeneralAntilles imagines a cacophonous utterance of "successfully scanned" noises as you walk through.10:44
X-FadeI'm all for that, as long as the next portal zaps all tags. ;)10:44
johnxthe trick is to share a "point card" with a whole lot of people10:44
gomiamjohnx: the problem is when anybode else is able to know too with little to no effort.10:44
infobotgomiam meant: johnx: the problem is that anybode else is able to know too with little to no effort.10:44
johnxX-Fade, powerful omni-directional microwaves?10:44
johnxright, the tags do need to get zapped one way or another10:45
johnxor better yet, overwritten10:45
X-Fadejohnx: Well, I din't say you needed to walk through with your cart ;)10:45
X-FadeThey can't be overwritten.10:45
GeneralAntillesjohnx, overwritten with your SSN? :P10:45
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gomiamjohnx: and what happens when a prankster starts zapping RFID tags left and right?10:46
X-Fadegomiam: You can already do that.10:46
johnxGeneralAntilles, nah, overwritten to make everything you bought look like adult diapers10:46
gomiam"hey, that lettuce can't cost $100!" "Sorry, sir, that's what the RFID tag says"10:46
johnxI take zap to mean "kill"10:46
gomiamX-Fade: I know. That's why I bring it up10:46
X-FadeBut you can also stick another barcode on it now.10:47
johnxI assume grocery store RFID tags will be read-only10:47
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gomiamjohnx: even worse. "Sir, you will have to bring your bag of tomatoes back to the vegetables section to weigh it again"10:47
X-FadeProbably programmed by burning fuses with a laser.10:47
gomiamX-Fade: nothing a well placed EMP can't erase ;-)10:48
GeneralAntillesOK, I touched up tablets-dev a bit. Any objects?
* johnx imagines "harmless" RFID tags injected into fruits and veggies :)10:48
dontupanicHi I just wanted to say, your help solved my problem.10:49
johnxGeneralAntilles, looks fine10:49
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: OK, I touched up tablets-dev a bit. Any objections?
GeneralAntillesdontupanic, don't forget to install the SSU update10:49
infobothmm... ssu is
gomiamit's strange. When I try to SSU, it complains about a lot of packages already being a newer version10:50
Alystairok so now I have 2007HE installed, this makes the tablet much more awesome, right?10:50
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GeneralAntillesAlystair, just make sure you have swap enabled.10:50
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_marcell_GeneralAntilles: how about highlighting somwhow the device names in the Maemo releases section?10:51
Alystairyeah, it's zippy10:51
GeneralAntilles_marcell_, reload10:53
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, the council blog isn't showing up on Planet.10:55
dontupanicall updated10:56
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Cron was dead.10:56
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Should show up within the hour. (I hope) ;)10:56
Alystairso the only place I should go for stuff is
GeneralAntillesAlso, X-Fade, a few requests10:57
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GeneralAntillesCan we get real authors for each article? So if I add a new article, it'll attribute it to me?10:58
GeneralAntillesand how about comments?10:58
dontupanicis there a wiki for adding repository's10:58
GeneralAntilles~installing-applications is
infobotokay, GeneralAntilles10:58
infobotwell, extras is
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Yes and yes.10:59
dontupanicthank you10:59
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_marcell_GeneralAntilles: one last thing: the "please see the wiki article on updating the tablet firmware" should have a link to the wiki.11:09
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dontupanicone more thing before I go to bed11:09
Alystairhrm I wonder if 2008HE is really that bad if you're only planning on running one app11:10
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dontupanicdoes any one know of a good calendar program with a to-do list?11:10
GeneralAntilles_marcell_, something like: "For information on flashing your tablet, please see the <a href=""> wiki</a> article on <a href=" Updating_the_tablet_firmware">updating the tablet firmware</a>." ?11:13
wnddontupanic, gpe-{calendar,todo},{calendar,todo}.shtml11:14
wndalthough I have to admit I don't use gpe todo myself, just the calendar11:14
_marcell_GeneralAntilles: there is a space in the second link, that is why it did not show up for me.11:15
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GeneralAntillesAh, weird11:15
* Alystair kicks server's asses11:15
GeneralAntillesShould be fixed now11:15
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_marcell_GeneralAntilles: ok, I put it to tablets-dev11:18
GeneralAntillesCool, thanks!11:18
* GeneralAntilles wants all the plain-HTML pages to look the same.11:18
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, any word on Downloads comments?11:20
X-FadeWhat's up?11:20
GeneralAntillesThey don't seem to be working11:20
GeneralAntillesI added one to a few days ago11:21
GeneralAntillesIt's not there11:21
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Oh btw, did you set your name to public in the account settings?11:21
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: (This is for the council page)11:21
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Ok, will look into that.11:21
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, I think so.11:21
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Then your name should show up in the council blog, but it doesn't seem to do that.11:22
GeneralAntillesI can confirm in a sec if it ever lets me log in. ;)11:22
GeneralAntillesHow are the permissions for posting announcements handled, by the way?11:24
GeneralAntillesTim said he wasn't able to add a new article11:24
X-FadePropably because cron didn't copy over the changes.11:25
X-FadeOr at least the cron job.11:25
GeneralAntillesAh, OK.11:25
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I can confirm the bug, trying to find out what is wrong.11:35
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles, my bad, I meant "serious connectivity (I2C and sub-par RS232 just isn't enough)12:20
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GAN800USB? :p12:22
GAN800Any of the other OMAP interfaces.12:22
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I fixed the comments, but still need to fix the new comments creation.12:22
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GAN800Anyway, you'll probably like the overo more for that, crashanddie.12:23
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crashanddieGAN800, yeah, if that ever sees daylight12:25
GAN800Waiting on some less broken OMAP silicon. ;)12:26
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dnearyEveryone had a chance to have a look at the website revamp plan?12:29
* aquatix missed that one12:30
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GAN800dneary, haven't done more than skim it so far.12:31
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dnearyWondering if I'm on the right track12:31
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dnearyHere's a thing, though...12:32
dnearyFor some docs (official guides & API docs) it absolutely makes sense to categorise by release12:32
dnearyFor others (outside documentation, articles, tutorials, wiki pages, etc...) it makes more sense to group by function, and have the articles listed according to some sort of "usefulness" metric, where usefulness decreases over time, but useful articles from 2 years ago can still get voted up12:33
GeneralAntillesI think we should probably set aside the official docs for the time being.12:33
dnearyWe need to fit them in somewhere - right now it's a mess12:33
dnearyMess #1, for example, is this transition period where a bunch of stuff was consolidated for Diablo12:34
GeneralAntillesI think getting together good index pages will help a lot.12:34
dnearyAnd the only link to the consolidated guide is the PDF, apart from one hard-to-find place12:34
aquatix``NOTE: search for "Nokia N810 software download", the download page on is not on the first 10 pages'' <- maybe put some more keywords on that page? it already mentiones most of it already though :/12:34
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dnearyDo you know of a web spider that goes through a site and can draw a directed graph (page X links to page Y) of the site?12:35
dnearyaquatix: I think that links on have rel="nofollow" added by default bu midgard, which is absolutely the worst thing to do12:35
dnearyBut maybe Henri can correct me there12:36
GeneralAntillesDo they seriously?12:36
X-Fadedneary: View source? :)12:36
aquatixdneary: ?12:36
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X-Fadedneary: Then you should see that that is ******* :)12:37
dnearyX-Fade: My mistake :)12:37
GeneralAntillesSelf-censor? :P12:37
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: yep.12:38
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crashanddiedneary, I loved your proposal12:38
dnearyThanks anddie12:38
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dnearyWhy isn't your name spelt Andy?12:39
dneary"Crash Andy"12:39
X-FadeIt would be good to decide what to do with these OS200x references too.12:39
crashanddiebecause that's not it :P12:39
crashanddieit was during my lame years12:39
crashanddie"crash" & "die"12:39
dnearyaquatix: Thanks!
aquatixdneary: i think it's three words12:39
GeneralAntillesWell, Sebastian just got himself a new name.12:40
crashanddieUnless Andy is close enough to André12:40
crashanddieAnyway, not having a certain name never stopped me from using it as one of mine12:40
X-Fadedneary: Nice graph, but pretty useless without urls.12:41
GeneralAntillesI bet we could copy-edit this one and push it live pretty easily:
crashanddie"Hi, how do you do? I'm [Vincent|Paul|Fred|Eric|Jack|whatever]12:42
dnearyAnd it's a graph of the front page, as far as I can tell, not a graph of the site structure12:42
GeneralAntillesIt rendered awfully quickly for it to be a graph of the whole site. ;)12:42
dnearyGeneralAntilles: Yes, we could - although I'd love to have a graphic designer's rendering of what the page will look like12:43
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Did you check your privacy settings?12:43
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, yeah, it's public.12:43
X-FadeHmm I see in the db you wrote it, but that doesn't show up on the page ;)12:44
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RST38hX-Fade: btw, karma computation is stuck again12:46
GeneralAntillesTutorials vs How-tos vs Quick Start Guides in documentation is really confusing.12:46
RST38hand, what is more interesting, stuck in some really weird state where score for apps is not divisible by the number of apps =)12:47
RST38hGA: Not confusing if you place QSGs and Tutorials into Newbies section and How-tos with reference12:48
GeneralAntillesRST38h, this is all for the developer documentation12:48
X-FadeRST38h: Yeah, karma is stuck.12:49
* GeneralAntilles removes gronmayer from the Improving page.12:49
RST38hyea but you can have several sections there as well12:49
X-FadeRST38h: Applications has 2 karma modifiers. Fixed number and the rating influences it too.12:49
RST38hX-Fade: Ah12:49
GeneralAntillesI wish we had some graphic designers who'd step up to help get a new look together.12:49
RST38hthat explains it12:49
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Glauber will help there, I think.12:50
RST38hGA: Google seems to have been going without graphic designers for a long while12:50
RST38hWorks fine without them ;)12:50
GeneralAntillesOK, somebody, anybody, willing to step up. ;)12:50
GeneralAntillesMy plan for it amounts to "lightweight and tablet-friendly"12:51
GeneralAntillesCan we take the Repositories link off the front page?12:51
X-FadeReduce the number of requests needed for a page.12:51
GeneralAntillesBugzilla and the wiki need to be moved up into the top-level navbar12:52
RST38hGA: I can probably help but do not expect too much12:53
RST38h[and no, I do not understand adamant desire to exterminate all repositories other than Extras]12:54
GeneralAntillesWhat's not to understand?12:54
RST38hGA: What page do you want to redesign?12:54
RST38hThe impracticality of it12:54
GeneralAntillesRepositories are trouble for end-users, developers and Nokia.12:54
GeneralAntillesThey reduce the quality of the user-experience12:54
GeneralAntillesmake it harder to troubleshoot problems12:54
GeneralAntillesand reflect poorly on Nokia.12:54
RST38hWell, they help me find stuff. That is improved user experience for me :)12:54
GeneralAntillesNo, they will not help you find stuff.12:55
GeneralAntillesExtras helps you find stuff12:55
RST38hNow, how 3rd party repositories reflect on Nokia is a different subject :)12:55
GeneralAntillessince everything you need is right there.12:55
RST38hit is not :)12:55
GeneralAntillesRather than being scattered all over the internet.12:55
gomiamGeneralAntilles: which is why I still need some 3rd party repositories, right?12:55
RST38hif it were, I would not need to search other repos for it12:55
GeneralAntillesIt should be if developers would get their act together.12:55
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, that sounds like an argument against 3rd party repositories to me. . . .12:56
GeneralAntillesgomiam, my point was, that's why everything should be in Extras.12:56
GeneralAntillesSo you don't have to search far and wide for stuff.12:56
RST38hGA: well, if you kill off 3rd party repos and their contents is not in Extras (which is what you want to do), then content is lost12:56
Mekuntil scratchbox/qemu/the autobuilder gets to a state where it can build/run everything, I don't think you'll ever be able to get rid of 3rd party repositories (or you should allow binary uploads to extras/extras-devel...)12:56
GeneralAntillesNo, I want as much content as possible to be in Extras.12:56
RST38hGA: So, before you go off putting down 3rd party repos, at least make sure their content is duplicated in extras12:57
RST38hBTW, there is a relatively clean way to do it:12:57
GeneralAntillesIt's the same stupid argument people try to use against the wiki.12:57
X-FadeRST38h: Check my talk at the summit ;)12:57
RST38hGA: Not familiar with it but it may hold for the wiki as well12:57
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GeneralAntilles"No, nobody should use that wiki until all the information is there, we should use the itT wiki until that other wiki has everything"12:58
RST38hAnyway, you can create user/incoming category in Extras, import 3rd party stuff there, and run static dependency check to make sure it checks out ok12:58
GeneralAntillesWell, the wiki can't have everything until people start putting stuff into it.12:58
* GeneralAntilles gives up.12:58
RST38hGA: No, that one sounds wrong =)12:58
jottwe also need more people actively maintaining extras - bring content over, assists developers with packaging etc, etc.12:58
GeneralAntillesIt's a stupid discussion.12:58
RST38hBack to the design question: what page do you want to design?12:59
X-Fadejott: Yes, we do. Also.. check my talk at the summit ;)12:59
jottX-Fade: will do! :)12:59
jottand somehow fight with the qemu mess :/12:59
GeneralAntillesRST38h, we need a new look.13:00
GeneralAntillesSimple and lightweight13:00
jottmaybe on special builder with sbrsh?13:00
RST38hGA: Overall or page layouts?13:00
GeneralAntillesMost pages share the same layout13:00
GeneralAntillesso it doesn't really matter which one13:00
GeneralAntillesStart with the front page13:00
RST38hGA: Haver to go to the meeting but when I get back we can talk13:00
X-Fadejott: The builder now uses the qemu cvs* version.13:01
RST38hI will try to help with layout, can't help with artwork13:01
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, should this be public?
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jottX-Fade: no. it should be back to 0.8.2..13:01
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Well, no..13:01
jottX-Fade: both version are broken..13:01
jottX-Fade: and best - they are broken in different ways.13:01
hrwsummit talk... I need to finally start work on presentation13:01
X-Fadejott: Can you mention something on the list?13:02
jottX-Fade: well i guess we could discuss this on summit :)13:02
MekX-Fade: also see my blog entry about qemu stuff :)13:02
jottgiven that its just a few days ahead.13:02
X-FadeMek: Yep, have read that..13:03
X-Fadejott: Yes, be sure to talk to Ed about it.13:03
jottX-Fade: yep. i already had contact with him :)13:03
jottbtw. will there be name tags handed out? :)13:04
crashanddieseriously wtf "Moistened by his blood the toast was glazed to perfection as the red fluid of life oozed from his mouth. The toast felt regret as his corpse began to chill. It wanted so badly to cry to the heavens and proclaim its love for the man. But alas it couldn't, for it was merely a plate of French toast."13:04
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GeneralAntillesandre___, ping.13:05
andre___GeneralAntilles, pong13:05
lcukcrashanddie, yes indeed wtf.   GeneralAntilles i thought that was some top secret new stuff, not maemo2 tests \@/13:05
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GeneralAntillesandre___, can you ponder on having a couple of top-ten lists (like from the bug jar) on the bugzilla front page?13:06
jottX-Fade: do you think it might be possible to get a sbrsh system running? (like as someone knowing nokias policies a bit)13:06
* lcuk is over the hump13:06
crashanddielcuk, found it in an old wiki we had as a school project, I'm refreshing it a bit... And this is what one of the spammers posted...13:06
GeneralAntillesOR maybe top-5 lists13:06
andre___GeneralAntilles, refering to duplicates, or votes, or...?13:06
X-Fadejott: I have no idea. I have no access to the actual build machines, that is Ed's thing..13:06
andre___I wouldn't hack the front page for that13:07
jottX-Fade: ok. will ask him then...13:07
andre___GeneralAntilles, maybe having a more explicit link is ok, but in general such stuff should be part of a summary page that guenther hacks on13:07
jottso about name tags, are there any? because otherwise it might be hard to spot some people..13:08
GeneralAntillesIt's just hard for new people to jump into bugzilla when you can't really get to any bugs right off the bat.13:08
andre___well, what is the usecase you're after? triaging, or searching in general?13:09
GeneralAntillesNew users13:09
X-Fadejott: I haven't seen anything about name tags.13:09
dystopiaGeneralAntilles: there were more arguments about why to use the itt wiki. the lack of stability on the maemo wiki, for example13:10
GeneralAntillesThey land on bugs.maemo.org13:10
jottMek: does the eabi version work out for you btw, or does it still make trouble?13:10
GeneralAntillesNow what?13:10
GeneralAntillesdystopia, I really don't want to hear it. ;)13:10
jottMek: we could probably ask to get this version installed on the build machines..13:10
GeneralAntillesDo the new users enter a bug number in the box?13:10
crashanddieI'm still not using bugzilla because I have no clue what I can help with13:10
GeneralAntillesHow many bugs are in the database?13:10
crashanddieI vote when I'm asked to, and that's it13:10
GeneralAntillesAm I gonna find one that's 3 years old and closed?13:10
GeneralAntillesOr one that doesn't exist yet?13:10
dystopiadont bring the subject up then ;>13:10
crashanddieOther than that, I have no clue how to manage bugs, track 'em, or find out what's happened with 'em13:10
Mekjott: about one in every 1000 or so fork syscalls fails (I don't know exactly how many), so with some manual intervention I can build stuff with it...13:11
andre___GeneralAntilles, depends on what you're searching for :) and there's links for entering a new report and searching the existing ones13:11
andre___GeneralAntilles, i agree that we should have a link at the frontpage when the summary page is set up13:11
jottMek: bleh, i actually had this with every qemu version in a non reproducible manner at some point in time :(13:11
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RST38hqemu ... bleah13:12
GeneralAntillesandre___, a couple of "Top 10 open enhancements by votes", "Top 10 open bugs by severity", "10 most recently filed bugs", "10 most recently updated bugs" links might help people to get a feel for things.13:12
jottRST38h: write something better *please* :)13:12
RST38hjott: just use the real thing13:13
jottRST38h: gna, yeah. that's why i suggested sbrsh for the build hosts...13:13
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GeneralAntillesandre___, maybe a Busquad link on the bugzilla front page? "If you're interested in getting involved in bugzilla, head on over to the Bugsquad!"13:13
jottRST38h: but this might not be an option.. :(13:13
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* RST38h cross-compiles on ia3213:14
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jottRST38h: yeah that works for your stuff. but it does not work for all stuff :)13:14
jottat least not without touching qemu or some other way of running arm code..13:15
RST38heven if it works for 90 percent, it is worth doing for those 9013:15
andre___GeneralAntilles, that sounds good. Can you file an enhancement bug report against me? ;-)13:15
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MekI don't think the debian packaging stuff really supports cross compiling?13:16
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jottMek: well you can cross compile - but it will fail at the point where you need native programs to proceed :)13:16
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jottthere is dpkg-cross for example..13:17
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, if you do start getting involved in bugzilla, think you could take some mental notes while you do?13:17
andre___oh yes. i'd love to see that too13:18
GeneralAntillesMy perspective isn't quite what it used to be as far as that goes, so it's hard for my to picture the stumbling points that prevent people from getting involved.13:18
GeneralAntillesI had a lot of outside prodding from other people. . . .13:18
crashanddieI don't know if I can commit to it13:19
crashanddiebut IF I do (get involved)13:19
crashanddieI'll do better than a few mental notes13:19
crashanddieI'll write a bloody essay13:19
* GeneralAntilles can't wait.13:20
X-FadeDoes anybody have a link to the svg of the logo handy?13:20
vanRijnGeneralAntilles: do you know of any Maemo media players that handle embedded album cover art in mp3 files?13:20
GeneralAntillesIt's not the easiest thing in the world for people who are already deeply involved to think up things that would be useful for people who aren't yet involved. ;)13:20
* jott hands GeneralAntilles his charged cattle prod to "motivate" crashanddie 13:21
GeneralAntillesvanRijn, embedded? Is that actually part of ID3?13:21
vanRijnGeneralAntilles: yes13:21
jottsure it is.13:21
GeneralAntillesCanola will download them separately13:21
jottall my mp3s have embedded covers :)13:21
GeneralAntillesNot sure about embedded, though.13:21
* jott hates players that try to fetch covers "automatically"13:21
jottit's deemed to fail.13:22
RST38hworked for me13:23
vanRijnGeneralAntilles: there's a couple of canola plugins/extras things that will go through a collection in batch mode and fetch album art from a variety of sources, including embedded id3, but it sure would be nice if it just did it automatically on the fly13:23
jottnever worked for me. especially compared to the good and *right* quality covers i already have.13:23
jottok, some mainstream albums where ok :)13:24
vanRijncanola-tuning and canola-tuning-plugin (iirc) is what does that, btw13:24
RST38hactually even worked for obscure foreign albums13:25
jottlucky you RST38h :)13:25
RST38hwhich i found weird13:25
jottstill i see no point in fetching it when it's already there :)13:25
vanRijnjott: did you try canola-tuning and canola-tuning-plugin?13:27
jottvanRijn: no, but i don't use canola/my n810 to listen to music anyway.13:28
vanRijnjott: what do you use?13:28
jottipod :P13:28
GAN800vanRijn, canola-tuning-plugin supercedes canola-tuning.13:29
vanRijnGAN800: hm. I think I have both installed13:30
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Khertan_n810Hi !13:37
GeneralAntillesHello, Khertan_n810.13:37
Khertan_n810i ll haven t a released version of mContacts for the summit :(13:38
* Khertan_n810 just discover that gtktree cellrenderertext can be edited in the column13:39
Khertan_n810could be a good thing for a todo app13:40
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Khertan_n810Stskeeps: i ll show anyway the current developpment version13:41
vanRijnis there going to be an official calendar application for maemo coming soon? I need PIM applications on the N810 before I can throw my palm out the window.13:42
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Khertan_n810vanRijn: not official13:43
Khertan_n810but i ll present mCalendar13:43
johnxvanRijn, non-nokia people don't know. Nokia people won't say13:43
Khertan_n810at the summit13:43
* vanRijn looks13:44
* GeneralAntilles is blinded.13:44
Khertan_n810don t take care of colors in the list this was for test purpose13:44
vanRijnKhertan_n810: how bullet-proof is syncing with google calendar?13:44
Khertan_n810bullet-proof ?13:45
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Khertan_n810sync with google works very well13:45
vanRijnyeah... as in... not going to mess up my google calendar and not going to miss things that are important, like all-day, multi-day, recurring events, alarms, etc., etc.13:45
* GeneralAntilles puts a couple of rounds through Khertan's server.13:45
GeneralAntillesNot very.13:45
Khertan_n810at least in the 0.4.113:46
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Khertan_n810all day event and alarm are sync13:46
Khertan_n810and as i use alarmd ...13:46
Khertan_n810it work also when device sleep13:46
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Khertan_n810and don t need to keep the app open like gpe13:47
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peter|workdoes nokia 770 use maemo?13:47
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johnxpeter|work, yes13:48
vanRijnKhertan_n810: okay, cool. i'll look into it. is there any way to synchronize it with a desktop app like thunderbird or evolution or korganizer?13:48
Khertan_n810GeneralAntilles: why do u said not very ?13:48
GeneralAntillesBecause I put bullets through your server, so it's apparently not bullet proof. :P13:48
Khertan_n810thunderbird can be sync with googlecal13:49
peter|workdoes linux/filesystem reside on sd/mmc card in that?13:49
* johnx syncs thunderbird with google cal13:49
Khertan_n810bullets ? you mean bugs ?13:49
johnxpeter|work, no13:49
infobotfrom memory, boot-sd is
peter|workso where is the filesystem?13:49
aquatixKhertan_n810: vanRijn was talking about bullet-proofness13:49
johnxKhertan_n810, bulletproof = still works in bad situations13:50
Khertan_n810aquarius-: maybe but don t understand what it s mean13:50
johnxpeter|work, normally, it's on an internal flash chip13:50
Khertan_n810bullet is amunition for a weapon13:50
vanRijnis it possible to sync the contacts program on the n810 with anything on the linux desktop? or memos?13:50
* GeneralAntilles wishes there were a Bugzilla search scrubber.13:51
peter|workso what if i want to store something from a PC say like a sdmmc card?13:51
peter|workor microsdmmc13:51
Khertan_n810vanRijn: mContacts will be sync with google contacts13:51
Khertan_n810but not ready yet13:51
GeneralAntillesEr, the 770 uses RS-MMC13:51
GeneralAntillesThere's no such thing as a "sdmmc"13:51
aquatixKhertan_n810: yeah, so `bulletproof' normally means `can it stand bad situations', with GeneralAntilles taking it literally and putting some bullets in your server ;)13:51
GeneralAntillesBut, yes, the RS-MMC cards are normally FAT13:51
vanRijnKhertan_n810: when will it be ready?13:51
peter|workokay - suppose i want to store some file such as mp3 files how do i do it?13:51
GeneralAntillesSo you can just put files on them and use it.13:51
GeneralAntillesJust put files on the card.13:52
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peter|workfrom a windows pc?13:52
Khertan_n810vanRijn: when it ll be ok :)13:52
GeneralAntillesFrom wherever13:52
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vanRijnKhertan_n810: heh. okay. =:)13:52
GeneralAntillesThink of it like a little external hard drive.13:53
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peter|workso nokia tablets have an ext2/ext3 file system which resides in nand/some flash and a mmc card with FAT?13:53
GeneralAntillesNo, it's JFFS2 on NAND13:53
peter|workerr. okay cool13:53
GeneralAntillesIt's an un-managed NAND, so it needs filesystem-level wear-leveling.13:53
johnxbut overall, yes, that's the right idea13:54
peter|workso how does firmware upgrade takes place13:54
GeneralAntillesJournaled Flash Filesystem 213:54
peter|worki want to update my filesystem and kernel13:54
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GeneralAntillesYou flash a filesystem image onto the NAND over USB13:54
infobotwell, flashing is
johnxconnect through usb, program on computer recopies the fs over to nand on the device13:54
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johnxaside, "flashing" is such a strangely anachronistic term in this case13:55
peter|workis there any flashing tool available?13:55
infobotmethinks flashing is
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johnxpeter|work, hit the flashing link :)13:55
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peter|workmy firewall does not allow me to access that site for some reason13:56
GeneralAntillesYes, there's software available for Windows, Linux, and OS X.13:56
GeneralAntillesOnly the Linux or Windows flashers will allow you to only flash the kernel or rootfs.13:56
johnxyes, there's a flasher available on that page. bookmark it to look at when you're home :)13:56
GeneralAntilless/Windows/OS X/13:56
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Only the Linux or OS X flashers will allow you to only flash the kernel or rootfs.13:56
peter|workokay trying to understand how things work - for our own device i thought of updating using sd/mmc card13:58
peter|workim trying to design a flashing tool sort of thing for our own device.13:58
johnxyou can update the kernel and initfs from a running system13:58
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johnxthen you could update the rootfs from initfs13:58
GeneralAntillesFlashing from an SD/MMC isn't much different from flashing over USB13:59
peter|workright now im looking into filesystems13:59
GeneralAntillesThe X-Loader on the tablets just isn't set up for that.13:59
johnxyou might find mtd-utils interesting13:59
peter|workwhether to have 2 different file systems?13:59
peter|workJFFS2 and FAT13:59
GeneralAntillesJFFS2 you'll definitely need for any unmanaged NAND14:00
GeneralAntillesExt2/3 or FAT on unmanaged NAND will burn it out in a heartbeat.14:00
aquatixhm, is it an idea to format the internal 2GB of my n810 jffs2 instead of FAT?14:00
GeneralAntillesExt2/3 would be an option, though.14:00
johnxwon't work14:00
aquatixah right14:01
peter|workJFFS2 i found to be problematic for say if power went off14:01
aquatixbecause that one is managed?14:01
peter|workdoes tablets have 2GB nand?14:01
* johnx never had problems with jffs2 corruption14:01
aquatixpeter|work: the n810 has14:01
GeneralAntillesThe N810 has what amounts to a soldered-on SD card.14:01
johnxthe n800 and n810 have 256MB of unmanaged nand14:01
peter|workso you need a 100% reliable driver14:01
GeneralAntillesIn addition to the 256MB of NAND.14:01
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aquatixpeter|work: what GeneralAntilles says :)14:02
johnxthe n810 *also* has a 2GB piece of NAND that is basically a soldered in sd-card14:02
johnxsd cards are NAND14:02
GeneralAntillesThey just have hardware wear-leveling.14:02
johnxpeter|work, what are you designing, if you don't mind the question?14:02
peter|workcan i put a JFFS2 file system on it?14:02
GeneralAntillesJFFS2 is only for unmanaged NAND14:02
lcukpeter|work, yes14:02
peter|workwhat is managed nand?14:02
aquatixpeter|work: that was my question too ;) ext2 or 3 is better for an SD card14:02
GeneralAntillesManaged NAND (like the kind found in SD cards) needs a regular filesystem.14:03
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GeneralAntillesSo, Ext2/3 or FAT14:03
johnxpeter|work, sd cards that present a block device to OSes14:03
peter|workokay - kind of a portable device which has nand and SDMMC device14:03
* aquatix thinks about formatting it to ext2 so it won't get corrupted again and is able to do serious things like subversion repo's14:03
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peter|workSDMMC should be FAT else windows dont understand them14:04
peter|worki cant put music files from windows PC14:04
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GeneralAntillesIt's probably easier to go with a bootloader that'll grab an image from FAT rather than Ext, anyway.14:04
peter|workis FAT stable when compared to EXT2?14:05
peter|worki thought FAT has issues14:05
GeneralAntillesFAT is compatible14:05
GeneralAntillesBut not much more.14:05
aquatixGeneralAntilles: would you recommend ext3 over ext2 on the internal mem?14:05
aquatixor is it overkill for it14:05
johnxpeter|work, yeah, of course it does, but it's the only thing guaranteed to be compatible14:05
GeneralAntillesaquatix, well, the benefit to ext3 is that you wont have to fsck whenever you crash.14:05
johnxaquatix, I use it on SD cards14:05
GeneralAntillesBut you're also introducing more writes for journaling14:06
GeneralAntillesnot a big deal for replaceable external cards14:06
peter|worki got confused14:06
GeneralAntillesbut maybe an issue for the non-replaceable 2GB in the N81014:06
aquatixyeah, that's why i'm asking, as i'm thinking abuot using it on the non-replaceable mem14:06
GeneralAntillesIt's probably _not_ as issue considering the life of the device.14:06
peter|workdo you guys say FAT is the filesystem to choose when it comes to SD/MMC?14:06
aquatixbut i won't use it a lot14:06
aquatixpeter|work: yeah14:07
GeneralAntillesAt worst, with ext2, you'll have to fsck a little more.14:07
johnxpeter|work, yes, if it needs to work with windows.14:07
aquatixpeter|work: especially when you want windows compatibility to put files on it and such14:07
StsN800i wonder if ext3 with external journal would be better14:07
peter|workwe all like it that way, isnt it?14:07
GeneralAntilles(Which, actually, may balance out the writing benefits of not having journalling \)14:07
johnxI use ext3 because I don't even own a windows computer14:07
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GeneralAntillesaquatix, I don't have the data to call it either way, honestly.14:07
aquatixGeneralAntilles: fair enough, just asking :)14:07
GeneralAntillesI wish I could say for sure14:08
GeneralAntillesand it'd be interesting to see some write-samples to get an idea of the difference14:08
peter|workokay what if in tablet the bootloaders get corrupted while flashing14:08
GeneralAntillesMaybe a good question is how often you're planning on doing hard reboots. ;)14:08
peter|workis there a rescue mode or something?14:08
GeneralAntillespeter|work, with OMAP, yes.14:09
GeneralAntillesYou can flash a new bootloader over the serial connection14:09
GeneralAntillesThe tablets can't recover from an SD card, though.14:09
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StsN800peter|work, i would just not flash nolo14:10
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StsN800as that enables usb flasher14:10
GeneralAntillesI'm wondering how far down the SD recovery with SD takes place.14:10
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peter|worksorry, got dc14:11
johnxpeter|work, so which chipset is this based on? omap2? omap3? pxa270?14:11
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peter|workokay guys, thanks, i have to go now. catch you later14:13
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GeneralAntillesI'm not really sure if something changed between OMAP2 and OMAP3 to make SD recovery possible14:14
GeneralAntillesor if it's just the difference between Nokia's and, say, the Beagle's setup.14:14
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hrwand how much of that would be ever available on nokias14:16
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johnxhey, hrw. what's the next ARM device you'll get?14:18
hrwjohnx: no idea now14:18
hrwjohnx: maybe beagleboard rev.C14:19
hrwjohnx: I am less and less in a need of new arm hw14:19
johnxthose do look interesting...lot's of fun hardware appearing these days14:19
hrwsooner will rather have to get Atom based netbook14:19
hrwbut that has to wait too14:20
johnxtired of dealing with cross compile issues?14:20
hrwjohnx: even for Atom I do crosscompile14:21
hrwjohnx: OpenEmbedded hides cross compilation problems14:21
johnxI'm very interested to see how the cortex will compare to the atom in everyday use14:21
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hrwomap3430 can play 720p in realtime14:22
hrwwithout using dsp iirc14:22
johnxI think I remember that14:22
peter|workit works at > 600MHZ14:23
hrwpeter|work: MHz is not a definition of cpu speed14:23
peter|workwhat is?14:23
hrwwith todays cpus it is often hard to compare them14:24
gletelli_hrw: why do you need to do crosscompile on Atom?14:24
hrwgletelli_: not 'on Atom' but 'for Atom'14:24
hrwgletelli_: I do not do compilation on target devices - for that I have quadcore desktop14:24
gletelli_yes sorry! It's what I meant- for Atom14:25
gletelli_I thought it was x8614:25
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hrwpeter|work: how to compare quadcore x86-64 which has sse, large l1/l2 cache with omap2420 which has small cache but has dsp unit inside?14:26
hrwgletelli_: Atom is x8614:26
peter|workhrw: i wont compare ;14:27
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peter|workit depends on what you want to use it for14:27
peter|worksay i want to play a mpeg movie - can i play it in both i would look like that14:27
peter|worki had trouble playing movies in omap214:28
peter|workthen i had to use dsp14:28
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lcukare you sure thats omap2s fault and not the archaic framebuffer iumplimentation on this system (we waste so many cycles copying memory and doing stuff which should sit in the faster internal omap2 framebuffer14:29
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peter|workmay be youre right - but it depends on how much time you have to make something work14:29
hrwomap3 based tablet would be nice - if designed properly14:30
lcukyer, omap2 is/was a great chip - on this device its drawn down14:30
lcukhrw :) agreed14:30
* johnx started looking at the 3M mini-projector...14:30
lcukand hi btw14:30
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hrwlcuk: osim?14:31
lcukWARNING: Do not look into 3M Mini-Projector with your remaining eye!14:31
lcuksummit only - arriving on thursday14:31
johnxpeter|work, I completely agree. At some point you have to figure out whether optimization is worth your time or whether you should buy faster hardware14:31
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Robot101lcuk: it's only got a weird external framebuffer because the omap2 can't drive an LCD that size14:32
peter|workyeah - there are lots of things to consider isnt it? skill level, num of ppl in your team, budget and so on14:32
Robot101lcuk: so arguably it is the omap2's fault :P14:32
lcukthat is of course assuming you can afford to just throw away what you have and accept the hit on your poscket14:32
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GeneralAntillesRobot101, well, the 770 had the same issue, but the external framebuffer wasn't nearly as broken. ;)14:32
lcukRobot101, seriously - 640*480 wouldv been great (and liqbase is practically indistinguishable at that res)14:33
peter|workomap3 is twice as faster as omap214:33
GeneralAntillesNearly the same power consumption, too.14:33
hrwlcuk: see you friday then14:33
lcukyer hrw :) lookin forward to it14:33
* lcuk wonders if he will get any sleep before then14:35
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* JamieBennett wonders if he will get any sleep when he is there14:38
lcukill have no problem sleeping after the pres, but its prep that im havin trouble with14:38
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lcukanyway, back later14:39
andrewfblackAnyone ever moved there sidebar with the icons to the right side of there tablet?  I need to know how to move it back14:39
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RST38hGAN: Back. If you want to discuss the layout, show me an example of a page you want to redesign and what the requirements are14:41
GeneralAntillesandrewfblack, you can do that with the rotation xserver14:41
GeneralAntillesI've never been able to make it happen here, though.14:41
GeneralAntillesRST38h, OK, let's start with the front page.14:42
GeneralAntillesThe biggest issue is that it'll fit on the tablet screen in a usable way.14:42
GeneralAntillesFirst thing that has to go is the width14:42
GeneralAntillesIt's gotta be fluid.14:42
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andrewfblackGeneralAntilles yeah I've been playing with Rotate this week and I find it only useful for viewing some web pages since the UI looks really bad and menu is unusable but now in regular view my sidebar is on right side and not left have no idea how to get it back I will have to try and rotate it over and over maybe it will come back right14:46
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AnunakinGood day!14:49
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RST38hGAN: Plain HTMl ok?14:50
GeneralAntillesI'm fine with whatever's convenient.14:50
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hrwmaemo summit will be a bit hardcore14:59
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hrwif I want to be at opening keynote I would have to wakeup before 5:0014:59
florianeven without travel14:59
hrwflorian: I plan to travel on friday morning and saturday evening15:00
hrwso after 5am from home and back after 2315:00
florianhrw: oh that sounds evil...15:01
hrwflorian: @txl on 9:00 10:00 11:45..15:02
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hrwif I will be there @9:00 then I should be at keynote as they arrive before 9..15:03
RST38hGAN: This is heading only, no styles applied yet15:06
RST38hGAN: Should look perfectly fine on the tablet too15:06
RST38hWill even look decent on a cell phone, as long as you have got a decent browser15:07
* hrw -> lunch15:07
hrwRST38h: TABLES???????15:08
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Fatalhrw: Multiple question marks, really?15:09
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GeneralAntillesFatal, that's usually _my_ reaction to table usage in styling these days. ;)15:10
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FatalGeneralAntilles: mine aswell, but I react worse to repeated punctuations :)15:11
GeneralAntillesMeh, this is IRC, not the New Yorker.15:12
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GeneralAntillesWhatever helps get across that all that extra information you normally miss in text-only communication.15:12
FatalGeneralAntilles: normal words tends to get it across better than putting on an asshat suit :)15:13
* GeneralAntilles always figured the punctuation nazi for an asshat-suit. :P15:13
FatalIf I was a punctuation nazi, I'd probably not use smileys as punctuation :)15:14
GeneralAntillesNazis don't have to use things "right" themselves, they just have to want to impose their own view of "right" on others. ;)15:15
Fatalhaha, true true15:15
GeneralAntillesAnyway, we're probably more in agreement here than not, so there's no point arguing over it. ;)15:16
Fatalwe'll agree to disagree, I frown on "yelling" (uppercase+multiples of ? or !) while you find it acceptable to get a point through15:16
herwoodHi, is there some kind of problem in running qmake (in Qt-project) inside scratchbox's ARM -target?15:17
GeneralAntillesCould Google docs be any slower in picking up this image? . . .15:17
Fatal(and yes, the use of asshat was excessive and NOT directed against hrw (or anyone else in the channel))15:17
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Mekherwood: there shouldn't be (well not big problems at least :P )15:18
RST38hhrw: Tables work15:18
RST38hhrw: CSS does not always work though. Hence tables.15:18
GeneralAntillesFloggings work, too.15:18
GeneralAntillesThat don't make 'em right. :D15:18
aquatixtables *and* caps html tags15:18
RST38hGAN: Did I mention I am all for flogging a few responsible people?15:18
aquatixand no doctype :)15:18
herwoodMek: In my scratchbox (newest Diablo version) qmake always crashes to segmentation fault, no matter where I run it15:19
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herwoodeven with no parameters15:19
herwoodHave you heard or seen something like that before15:19
Mekherwood: ah, you need to use the cvs-m version of qemu15:19
Mek(or newer)15:19
herwoodMek: thanks very much!15:20
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herwoodMek: Where can I find it?15:20
Mekherwood: it shold already be installed, you just need to change your configuration to use it15:20
herwoodMek: How can I do that?15:21
Mek(in /scratchbox/users/USER/targets/TARGETNAME.conf change the cpu transparency method line thing)15:21
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RST38hGAN: Well, between making things "right" and making them work, I always go for the second choice15:21
RST38hGAN: But, of course, once "right" thing start working, you are welcome to put them in place =)15:21
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GeneralAntillesIt's impossible to line up images in Google Docs15:24
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herwoodMek: Yeah, it works now! Thanks alot, you've saved my day!15:26
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hrwor use normal crosscompilation instead of sbox15:28
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MekI don't think 'normal' crosscompilation will be very easy with qmake...15:30
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RST38hWhy is it hard?15:30
hrwthen why it works in OpenEmbedded?15:30
hrwit is just a matter of having qmake for host and proper configuration15:31
RST38hActually, if you do not install Etch toolchain (at least in SB2), you are using cross compilation15:31
Mekhrw: there are quite some patches in openembedded to make it work...15:32
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hrwMek: done once, works everytime15:34
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Mekhrw: sure, but still far from trivial (and it won't help with qmake based projects that have configuration checks that depend on executing stuff)15:35
hrwany buildsystem can be done good or bad15:35
hrwI just saw too many bad ones15:36
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aladdsanyone here used BasiliskII on OS2007?15:47
aquatixgotta love listening streaming music on your n810 over your work's wifi network15:47
aladdsi know to use uniquie311's builds15:47
aladdsbut i get an error when i start it, something about SIGSRV15:48
aladdsand then it sits there for a bit15:48
aladdsthen reboots15:48
aladdsi thought about installing some sdl libs, but that didn't seem to help15:48
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RST38hGAN: here?16:49
RST38hGAN: Check again16:49
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GeneralAntillesLooks good.16:50
RST38hGAN: "Status Information" may be replaced by a few other important stats16:50
* johnx claps for variable width16:50
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RST38hGAN: Pearl's screenshot can be placed at the right16:50
RST38hjohnx: thanks16:50
* RST38h tried his best =)16:51
GeneralAntillesYeah, variable width will be really nice to have16:51
RST38hthat's tables for you ;)16:51
johnxI'll be able to read on my zaurus even :)16:51
RST38hThe best cursed HTML feature16:51
GeneralAntillesMeh, CSS does the same.16:51
andrewfblackRST38h that looks cool what is it?16:51
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RST38hGAN: it does, when it works =(16:51
GeneralAntillesCSS does variable width even better, in fact.16:51
RST38hGAN: There are few places (like input fields) where CSS is the only way to do war width16:52
GeneralAntillesPlay with the text size on that, too. ;)16:52
infobotRST38h meant: GAN: There are few places (like input fields) where CSS is the only way to do var width16:52
RST38hGAN: but still not recommended if you are targeting any dumb browser out there.16:53
RST38hI am taking the font from liqbase?16:53
RST38hOr should I go for standard Arial to be safe?16:53
GeneralAntillesGo with whatever you want16:54
GeneralAntillesI'm sure the finer style stuff will change16:54
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RST38hfint changed16:57
infobotRST38h meant: font changed16:57
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inzGeneral, you need more content on the screenshots page, otherwise it will break17:02
GeneralAntillesScreenshots page?17:03
GeneralAntillesOh, the liqbase site17:03
GeneralAntillesIt's all filler17:03
GeneralAntillesI'm waiting on content from lcuk.17:04
GeneralAntillesI can just set a min-height to fix that, though.17:04
GeneralAntillesThanks for noticing.17:04
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lirido video calls work with skype?17:06
Jaredui do not believe so17:06
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Jareduthere is possible support in the future but as of this moment no17:06
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liriI see17:08
liriis there any messaging app that support video besides amsn?17:08
Jaredui think gtalk does17:08
Jaredubut im not sure17:08
Jaredui get my n810 next week17:08
Jareduwhat clients does rtcomm support?17:09
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johnxI'll place my bet with with "we won't see it on current tablets ever"17:09
johnxgizmo5, right?17:09
GeneralAntillesYeah, Gizmo5, too.17:09
GeneralAntillesJaredu, GTalk tablet-to-tablet17:09
liriI'm not talking about tablet-to-tablet17:10
liritablet-to-tablet I guess that video SIP is also supported17:10
liriI'm talking about tablet-to-desktop17:10
liriso that leaves us with amsn only?17:11
Jareduboth are tablet-desktop yes?17:11
Jaredufree? :)17:11
liriahh missed, gizmo5, that's what I also have by default with the tablet or is this some other kind of gizmo version?17:11
liriJaredu: amsn has a tablet version as I've seen in some forums on ITT17:12
Jareduive heard of it17:12
Jaredui was thinking gizmo5 was a pay for service of some sort though17:12
aquatixJaredu: only when calling real phones17:13
aquatixgizmo is just sip17:13
GeneralAntilles. . . ^17:13
GeneralAntillesinz, min-height fixed it.17:17
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chirpsalotJaredu did pidgin crash?17:19
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chirpsalotwell I best be off, tata17:23
bstockhey what's best way to get term on freshly-flashed n810?17:23
X-Fadebstock: scroll down in the utilities menu ;)17:24
GeneralAntillesOpen up Xterminal from utilities17:24
aquatixbstock: find it in Utils menu17:24
johnxOS2008 includes an x terminal17:24
GeneralAntillesWhen wise men agree. . . .17:24
piguetHi! How do you edit your own entries in Downloads ?17:24
GeneralAntillespiguet, login, click "Page" on the little floating gray toolbar.17:25
piguetGeneralAntilles: hem, and then? Sorry to sound dumb, but I already tried Edit metadata and Show revision history...17:27
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GeneralAntillesLet me check my entry real quick.17:28
* GeneralAntilles waits for Downloads to load.17:28
X-Fadepiguet: How about: Page -> Edit? :)17:28
GeneralAntilles^ Or that guy can help you17:29
piguetI don't have Edit17:29
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X-Fadepiguet: What application?17:29
piguetand I'm logged... but I hadn't a .install URL when I first submitted it17:29
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*** qwerty12 has joined #maemo17:30 maybe it wasn't approved and I have no right on it17:30
GeneralAntillesWas it created automatically from the Extras entry?17:30
piguetNo, I've given up with Extras17:30
bstockoh nice, it comes with term app now?17:30
GeneralAntillesbstock, since November last year.17:30
GeneralAntillespiguet, what application?17:30
X-Fadepiguet: ?17:30
* GeneralAntilles learns to read.17:30
piguetI have my own rep at
bstockreally..? i flashed one not that long ago and didn't find one.. guess i overlooked then17:31
piguet(follow the install link)17:31
GeneralAntillespiguet, don't expect much good will putting up your own repository. :)17:31
bstockoh wait, i need to get root, not just term17:31
bstockthat's what i had to do17:31
infobotroot-access is probably
GeneralAntillesGrab rootsh from Extras.17:31
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piguetisn't "Downloads" supposed to work with other reps?17:32
GeneralAntillesIt does.17:32
piguetaren't .install supposed to be for non-maemo repositories?17:32
* GeneralAntilles can, apparently, also, edit that entry.17:32
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, did you change my permissions? :P17:32
GeneralAntillespiguet, no, .installs are to make installing applications easier.17:32
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Everybody can edit everything.17:32
GeneralAntillesFrom any repository.17:32
piguetGeneralAntilles: you mean *you* can edit my entry?17:32
X-FadeIt is a wiki ;)17:32
GeneralAntillesThe Downloads entry?17:33
piguetlet me check that again...17:33
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piguetare you supposed to have editing rights when you're logged in?17:34
* rm_you is leavin', on a jet plane. Doesn't know when he'll be back again.17:35
GeneralAntillesYou're going to get hijacked and diverted to Cuba.17:35
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piguetme? why? :-)17:36
mikkov_ This object was locked by Ryan Abel. Lock will expire on 15.09.2008 19:31:02.17:36
mikkov_yes, editing hike works ;)17:36
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mikkov_somebody should tell prism guy that he can edit entries in downloads17:38
puslingis the gps expected to be 10-30 mtinutes to get fix? and to need 6-7 sattelites ?17:38
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GeneralAntillesMore than 6 for a decent fix.17:38
mikkov_there is four prism entries at downloads17:39
puslingGeneralAntilles: isn't that ... many ?17:39
piguetwhere is the Edit button??? I get this:
rm_youok. see ya'll like... tomorrow17:39
GeneralAntillesYou'll usually be able to see about 9-12 in a good situation17:39
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GeneralAntillesIf you're seeing a lot less than that, then the signal probably isn't very good, either.17:40
GeneralAntillesWhich, with the N810's GPS, makes things particularly bad17:40
GeneralAntillesHave you installed AGPS?17:40
summatusmentisthe AGPS UI could be better :)17:40
GeneralAntillesSure, but it does help.17:41
puslingGeneralAntilles: I have installed the AGPS beta application, yes. But I don't know how I use it :/17:41
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aquatixthe temperature sensor in the n810 is one in the screen right? it says 37C in omweather now :)17:43
qwerty12The one near the screen on the N810 is a light sensor iirc17:43
aquatixno, talking about temperature17:43
X-Fadeaquatix: It is in the touchscreen yes.17:43
aquatixomweather applet can read it and show the info17:43
aquatixX-Fade: thanks17:44
X-Fadeaquatix: Or at least part of the touchscreen related hardware.17:44
* aquatix has a comfortably warm tablet ;)17:44
piguetI've just checked with Firefox in case there is a Safari incompatibility. Same problem.17:44
aquatixX-Fade: charging and streaming 160kbit audio over a low-quality wifi link17:44
piguetmikkov_: have you got the same menu as me in ?17:45
X-Fadeaquatix: Yeah, I have that with vagalume too.17:45
aquatixX-Fade: hey, i didn't realise vagalume was ported too17:45
* aquatix installs17:45
X-Fadeaquatix: Ported?17:46
aquatixX-Fade: well, maemo version17:46
X-Fadeaquatix: Made for :)17:46
aquatixoh, meh :)17:46
aquatixd'oh, that's the first sentence on its site17:46
X-FadeIt is in Extras.17:47
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* aquatix doesn't use clients that much17:47
aquatixi generally only scrobble17:47
aquatixX-Fade: k, thanks17:47
* aquatix installs17:47
andrewfblackI need to try and put some of my themes in extras sometimes17:47
aquatixandrewfblack: you should :)17:48
aquatixnot enough themes17:48
X-Fadeandrewfblack: You can try it out in extras-devel..17:48
* aquatix is considering doing one himself17:48
mikkov_piguet: you are in the wrong page. go here
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piguetmikkov_: thanks a lot, that looks much better!17:51
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piguetThe page is locked now, but I guess I have just to wait a little bit17:52
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X-FadeOr ask GeneralAntilles to leave the page ;)17:57
GeneralAntillesI'm not there. . . .17:57
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: You need to edit it and hit cancel.17:58
* GeneralAntilles sighs.17:58
X-FadeOr poor piguet needs to wait 2 hours :)17:58
GeneralAntillesWouldn't an edit conflict be easier?17:58
GeneralAntillesala mediawiki17:58
GeneralAntillesor mid-air collision17:59
X-FadeWell, things like bugzilla is lame.17:59
andrewfblackisn't there a guide to tell you how to put your files into extras and extra-dlevel somewhere17:59
GeneralAntillesAt least it doesn't lock people out when somebody looks at an edit page and doesn't do anything.17:59
infobothmm... upload-extras is
X-Fadeandrewfblack: If something is not clear, please let me know. So I can update it..18:00
piguetSource packages seems too complicated for me at this stage18:00
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X-FadeAlthough I will leave for berlin tomorrow ;)18:01
andrewfblackX-Fade I'll let you know18:01
piguetI have just a makefile which builds the .deb binary package without deb tools18:01
GeneralAntillesLock should be expiring momentarily. . . .18:01
piguetit integrates better with my workflow18:02
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X-Fadepiguet: I bet you don't use autotools either ;)18:02
RST38hGAN: Check the page again18:02
piguetX-Fade: see you've won!18:02
qwerty12piguet: Looking at, it shouldn't be hard work to put in an install section and a debian folder18:03
X-Fadepiguet: Hehe, classic 'lazy packager' type ;)18:03
piguetI guess so...18:03
mikkov_is the server upgrade going to be ready this week?18:04
X-Fadepiguet: Doesn't matter that much. You will probably do it properly on day :)18:04
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X-Fademikkov_: That depends on performance tests.18:04
piguetqwerty12: maybe not hard, but not my top priority now that deb packaging and distribution are ok18:04
GeneralAntillesRST38h, looks good18:05
GeneralAntillesThe more prominent application features is probably good for users.18:05
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X-Fadeandrewfblack: Invitation is on the mail.18:10
andrewfblackX-Fade thanks18:11
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piguetI've uploaded the script I use now at . I also build Packages.gz with another custom script which I run on a Mac, without Debian utilities.18:18
Stskeepspiguet: i'd personally use dpkg-deb maybe.. the problem with this way is that it's not a way to include stuff into extras :/18:21
piguetYes, I've noticed that :-(18:21
Stskeepsif you want to make something really nice, make a mini-dpkg-buildpackage or something18:21
Stskeepsthat doesn't need a shitload of dependancies18:21
X-FadeOr check out what pypackager does.18:22
Stskeepsor a simple dh_make18:22
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piguetI'll have a look during my next holydays...18:22
* Stskeeps will be either needing a minimal dpkg-buildpackage or using dpkg-deb for deblet :P18:22
X-Fadepiguet: Advantage of source packages is, that we can automatically make it available in new releases etc.18:23
X-FadeAnd recompile when some dependencies need changes.18:23
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Sargun_Screenis there no chess, for maemo?18:32
GeneralAntillesUh, it's bundled. . . .18:32
qwerty12~curse nvram18:32
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, nvram !18:32
qwerty12Sargun_Screen: Like GeneralAntilles says but I think there is a dodgy compile of scud/scid (something like that) too18:32
jaskaid guess reincarnating as a windows vista admin would be worse18:33
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johnxqwerty12, nvram? is this on a router or something?18:33
Sargun_Screenjaska: vista can be administered?18:33
jaskanot sure18:33
qwerty12jaska: yeah, I remember my "Administrator" account not actually being a admin account unless I disabled UAC or unlocked real admin. I thought fuck it and reinstalled xp18:33
jaskait can be installed.. and reinstalled18:33
qwerty12johnx: yeah, I'm doing some router programming, currently working on a cgi to let me enable snmp from web interface18:34
qwerty12(atm, I have a specified config file for snmp that can only be changed if I regenerate the image for the router and snmp starts up automatically and the only way to stop that is to ssh in and killall snmpd or regenerate the image and remove the snmpd line from the rcS (not a nice solution) so I'm getting it to read if it should start from the nvram instead)18:36
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andrewfblackyou know I keep seeing so many fake Cell phone nock offs I almost want to buy one18:51
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qwerty12nokla ftw18:52
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andrewfblackI mean if I'm going ot own an Iphone it might as well run WM618:52
qwerty12My friend is actually excited about receiving a nokla N95. :/18:53
Sargun_Screenthe n96 is prettyy cool18:53
andrewfblackmy question is is it a real thing or do they just steal your money and run18:53
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Sargun_Screenandrewfblack: ask them?18:55
qwerty12It's "real" in the sense that it functions but excepting interface and design knockoffs, it is not the original product.18:55
* qwerty12 learned not to trust clones after looking at sat boxes...18:55
andrewfblackqwerty12 yeah I know its not the real thing but I just figured it was a photoshop image they made you send them the money and you get nothing.  Hey atleast your getting a knock off18:56
qwerty12My favourite knock off is :
andrewfblackI would pay $125 for a phone that looks like an Iphone that runs WM6 just to convince my friends that its the new iphone protoype lol18:57
qwerty12lolz at least the iphone has some form of bsd, wm6 can burn :P18:58
nemoqwerty12: not just some form of BSD, iphone was running apache by July 200718:58
andrewfblackcan you say worst keyboard ever
nemoqwerty12: and had a full BSD subsystem18:58
nemoqwerty12: nowdays, it runs X11 too :D18:58
nemoqwerty12: I was SSHing into my S.O.'s iphone within one week of having purchased it last summer18:59
qwerty12nemo: ha, that's pretty cool :). Although apache doesn't make me excited as Nokia already ported it to S60 a long time before the iphone :)18:59
nemoqwerty12: well, point is how easy it was18:59
nemoqwerty12: 3rd party community basically just rebuilt it for iphone ARM arch18:59
GeneralAntillesWoo, and 770 did it in 2005!18:59
nemoqwerty12: all the BSD APIs were already there18:59
Fatalandrewfblack: heh, ewww. (took a while to load, so thought you meant the keypad first, speaking of which, have you seen siemens old sx1?)18:59
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nemoqwerty12: that being said, much more excited about the Nokia N8x0/N9x0 since they seem to be less of control freaks about those models than apple is19:00
nemoqwerty12: although Nokia can be control-freakish about their phones, no question.19:00
qwerty12nemo: for sure, symbian signing pissed me off for a long time >.<19:01
nemoand of course, symbian is a PoS in general19:01
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* qwerty12 is quite fond of Symbian, I <3 the range of apps on it19:02
nemoDOS wannabe more convoluted than the MFC19:02
nemoqwerty12: Symbian is sheer coder hell19:02
andrewfblackFatal nope never seen it19:02
nemothe range of apps is a testament to the lack of options out there and coder perserverance19:02
qwerty12nemo: Can't really comment on it, never tried coding on it (then again, I'm not really much of a coder on any platform)19:02
* nemo ♥ the iphone far more than symbian19:03
nemoiphone is a joy to code for, comparatively19:03
nemoeven though Symbian is C++ and I've had to learn objc for the iphone19:03
andrewfblackOk I have found the best cell phone ever
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nemook. since I'm typing away in here - anyone have any news on the Nokia N9x0 ?19:03
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qwerty12jolouis has made a cool otg swivel adapter for the N80019:08
johnx_nemo, no one outside nokia knows anything, no one inside nokia can say anything19:08
lcukqwerty12 i thought GOD made the best OTG swiver adapter for any handheld device - doesnt the wrist have about 60 bones in it to facilitate many swivellable actions?19:09
* lcuk demonstrates19:09
GeneralAntillesnemo, give it about 3 days.19:09
qwerty12How easy is it to bribe Finns?19:09
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, with the Summit coming up, what'd be the point?19:10
lcukqwerty12, not very
GeneralAntillesBy the way, the first (proposed) community council issue is on -community if anybody's interested.19:10
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qwerty12GeneralAntilles: I get to know 72 hours before? :P19:10
qwerty12lcuk: lol19:10
jaskawhy bribe finns?19:11
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GeneralAntillesjaska, a better question, why not bribe Finns?19:15
GeneralAntillesThey clearly have things we want. :P19:16
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GeneralAntillesSomebody should do a demo with VGB and a Wiimote for the Summit.19:30
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GeneralAntillesMan, konttori needs to push Wiicontrol to Extras-devel.19:54
qwerty12usbcontrol could do with it being in diablo extras[-devel] too :/19:56
GeneralAntillesI think UKMP is in non-free19:56
GeneralAntillesSomebody might need to help him with packaging it up for the autobuilder.19:56
GeneralAntillesI bet he wouldn't mind if they did.19:56
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, ping.20:15
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lcukGeneralAntilles, are you a photoshop wiz?20:18
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, I'm OK with it.20:18
GeneralAntillesbetter with some thing than others.20:18
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lcukim trying to make a png with a single color but rounded edges - the edges need to be transparent and its doin my nut20:19
* jott applies a bevel layer style on GeneralAntilles 20:19
GeneralAntilleslcuk, add an alpha channel.20:19
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lcuklol jott20:20
jottlcuk: make it really huge and then scale it down to get anti-aliasing on the edges.20:20
lcukthx - i tried last night, i shall persever20:20
lcukahhhahhh - feathered selection gave what i needed20:22
lcuki only want a small image and its been a bastard20:22
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GeneralAntillesAlphas are a little funky sometimes.20:23
Andy80hi all20:25
lcukit was the sourcde image i was grabbin it from - it was a blended gif with white corners - the alpha grabbing was funky20:25
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lcukall this just for a test20:27
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lcukall this just for a test20:30
* lcuk will have to stop doing that20:30
* qwerty12 smashes lcuk's keyboard. The North being like it is provides me many places to dump it.20:32
Stskeepsqwerty12: you have 0ffff source somewhere btw?20:33
Stskeeps / mtd-tools20:33
qwerty12Stskeeps: No, but I got the 0xFFFF source from the website using their pvc very easily.20:33
qwerty12Stskeeps: Look in my tarball of mtd-tools for initfs, the only change I made was adding -static to LDFLAGS and CFLAGS20:34
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qwerty12Stskeeps: the 0xFFFF creators own versioning system20:34
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Stskeepsok - should package it i guess :P20:35
qwerty12I hope you don't plan on uploading to extras :P20:35
qwerty12Oh noez, I used -j option of nandwrite and now my tablet is fucked20:35
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Stskeepsoh no, just deblet apt repo :P20:36
Stskeepsmtd-tools are in debian atleast20:36
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qwerty12Stskeeps: I think the only change I made to that 0xFFFF binary was to make the dump feature of 0xFFFF not ask any questions20:40
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barisionehi, do you know where to find a vnc server for my n810? the only link I find is broken :(20:44
lcukrounded rects loaded from a png and stretched to fit look crapper than a crap thing thats just crapped ontop of a sewer20:48
qwerty12was this on a crap sewer as well?20:48
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lcukmy thoughts exactly20:49
* lcuk moves onto planb20:49
Stskeepsplan9 for nokia tablets could be interesting.20:50
lcukindeed it could20:50
lcukthere are many old style tech paradigms which may very well "work" nicely on the tablets20:50
lcukthings which were before their time20:50
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dougtis osso-screenshot-tool available for diablo?20:54
dougtin a default install, apt-get doesn't find it.20:54
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XTLRichard Wright :(20:56
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GeneralAntillesdougt, might try this:
GeneralAntillesI'm not sure what the status of osso-screenshot-tool is these days.20:57
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trenkaMishaS: hehe :)21:05
GeneralAntillesDamn liar.21:07
MishaStrenka, indeed :)21:07
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* MishaS is now known as MishaS :)21:18
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hrwdougt: there is a load applet which also do screenshots21:19
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* MishaS does not aquatix :D21:19
dougthrw: thanks.  i need somethign I can do from the shell.21:19
aquatixmaybe there's a maemo build of it21:20
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Mekgpe-scap works also quite well21:20
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* MishaS had a small tool... but it was long time ago :(21:20
Mekgpe-scap also has one-click upload to scap.linuxtogo.org21:22
MishaSis gpe-scap ported to maemo?21:23
Mekyeah, it is in extras-devel21:24
Mek(I uploaded it there...)21:24
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liriis it normal to have o a diablo system both repos chinook extras and diablo extras enabled?21:24
hrwliri: not normal but working21:25
GeneralAntillesand increasingly pointless.21:25
liriwell, what's a normal situation? because I know some apps are available in chinook only and some are avail in diablo only so...21:26
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GeneralAntillesDiablo Extras for Diablo21:26
GeneralAntillesThere are fewer and fewer apps for which that's the case.21:27
MishaSliri: majority of such applications are "binary only"21:27
hrwlike maemo mapper...21:27
hrwwhich is pain to build21:27
MishaSand having free application in binary only way is bad :D21:27
* MishaS ducks and runs...21:27
GeneralAntillesHopefully Gnuite'll be back from his roadtrip soon.21:27
GeneralAntillesMishaS, go abuse konttori about UKMP21:27
GeneralAntillesIt's in non-free for some reason.21:28
liriso would you advise on disabling chinook and enabling diablo?21:28
GeneralAntillesliri, you can have them both enabled without much trouble.21:28
GeneralAntillesDiablo has newer stuff than Chinook in a few cases.21:28
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liriwhat does "without much trouble" mean? I don't want to find updates waiting that will cause issues with the tablet21:29
GeneralAntillesMeans I don't have any specific examples to give21:30
GeneralAntillesbut can't guarantee complete safety.21:30
MishaSmek: why not promote to extras? :)21:30
* MishaS does not have extras-devel enabled :D21:30
liriright, I figured as much :)21:30
MishaSGeneralAntilles, nah... :)  that's too difficult :D21:31
lirialright, another repo I see on my catalog is diablo/tools - is that ok? what's that for?21:31
GeneralAntillesMishaS, there's some tasty stuff in there. ;)21:31
MekMishaS: I don't think I have rights to promote stuff to extras :)21:31
MishaSGeneralAntilles, like scrummvm? :)21:31
GeneralAntillesliri, yes, that's intended for the tablet.21:31
GeneralAntillesMishaS, like ScummVM. ;)21:31
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MishaSMek: at the moment everybody who can upload stuff, can promote it :)21:31
liriGeneralAntilles: ok21:31
GeneralAntillesliri, avoid the SDK repo, though.21:31
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MishaSGeneralAntilles, re SDK: any specific bad issues with that?21:32
liriGeneralAntilles: I have a "general" maemo (catalog name: maemo, web address:, components: free non free) which is disabled... should I enable?21:32
GeneralAntillesan apt-get upgrade with it will land you in a reboot loop.21:32
GeneralAntillesLargely it's the core-utils stuff.21:32
MekMishaS: hmm... yeah... it seems that is true :)21:32
liriGeneralAntilles: so no harm in enabling it21:32
GeneralAntillesIf you've got Red Pill enabled in Application manager, it'll offer you an "Operating System" update21:32
GeneralAntilleswhich lands you in a reboot loop.21:32
lirithe general maemo repository?21:33
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GeneralAntillesliri, that'd be the Chinook SDK repo.21:33
GeneralAntillesWhich can be harmful.21:33
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Pavlovwhats the best way to take a screenshot on the n810?21:33
GeneralAntillesPavlov, I like VNC21:33
MishaSMek: i know, you know... :)21:33
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* GeneralAntilles has got a little script to take the screenshot, crop it, compress it, upload it to his ftp server and put the URL in the clipboard.21:34
liriGeneralAntilles: the SDK repo is the "general" maemo mapper which I mentioned now?21:34
GeneralAntillesliri, Maemo Mapper is in Extras.21:35 chinook free non-free21:35
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: chinook free non-free21:35 chinook free non-free is the Chinook SDK repo21:35
MishaSGeneralAntilles, that's an interesting behaviour...21:36
GeneralAntillesYeah, there are a lot of fun ways to get yourself into a reboot loop.21:36
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liriGeneralAntilles: I didn't have that. I have free non-free21:36
GeneralAntillesliri, that actually shouldn't exist21:36
liriGeneralAntilles: which is for diablo now I guess21:36
liriGeneralAntilles: I see21:36
* MishaS . o O (epository -- that's good :))21:36
GeneralAntillesSince that equates to diablo free non-free21:36
GeneralAntillesand the Diablo SDK moved to diablo/sdk free non-free21:37
GeneralAntillesMishaS, do you happen to have any sway over the tableteer upgrade repository?21:38
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drjnutI didn't find nmap for os2008 or diablo21:42
drjnutany hint?21:42
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drjnutlooks like /me iz gonna use scapy...21:46
liriGeneralAntilles: so it probably something that stayed from when it was chinook, before the upgrade to diablo21:47
X-FadeOk, bag packed. No let's hope I didn't forget anything. ;)21:48
Stskeepstablet? ;>21:48
Meklast time I visited berlin I had forgotten my toothbrush... :P21:48
X-FadeMek: Well, hotels should have kits for that.21:49
Mekyeah, it wasn't really a problem21:49
X-FadeBut tablet and 2 spare batteries, check!21:50
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X-FadeSure ;)21:52
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GeneralAntillesNo response for my first community issue proposal? :(21:58
derfI whole-heartedly approve.21:59
derfWhat was your proposal?21:59
X-FadeYes, but no time left to answer ;)21:59
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GeneralAntillesderf, see maemo-community.22:00
MishaSGeneralAntilles, not so far :)22:00
GeneralAntillesSomebody really needs to drag the Maemo release team out of its lame hidey-hole.22:02
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: sane and well-written issue22:04
MishaSGeneralAntilles, it depends how you define that hole :)22:05
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GeneralAntillesUnfortunately I think all of my agents got on planes, trains and automobiles before they saw the email22:06
GeneralAntillesSomebody will have to make sure they see it in Berlin.22:06
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: print a printout and a baseball bat22:07
GeneralAntillesMishaS, well, I've never once seen hide nor hair of somebody I can positively identify as being intimately involved in the release process.22:07
GeneralAntillesFrozen trout22:07
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MishaSGeneralAntilles, i'm one of those :)22:07
MishaSGeneralAntilles, however the responsibility is shared... :)22:08
GeneralAntillesMishaS, did you see the email on -community?22:08
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sneakretMailing lists. Ooh.22:08
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MishaSGeneralAntilles, nah, i'm not subscribed to that list22:09
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MishaSGeneralAntilles, i'll do it now :)22:09
sneakretThanks, GA!22:09
GeneralAntillessneakret, -developers and -community are useful22:10
GeneralAntilles-users is usually just a waste of time22:10
sneakrets/-users/-noobs/ ?22:10
GeneralAntillesnoobs, trolls, and flamebaiters22:10
GeneralAntillesIt's quality entertainment if you're in that sort of mood22:11
GeneralAntillesbut that sort of mood doesn't come around very often.22:11
MishaSGeneralAntilles, are urho or marius coming for the summit?22:11
GeneralAntillesMishaS, they should be.22:11
sneakretThere are many places on the net to find such entertainment.22:11
X-FadeMishaS: Both.22:11
MishaSGeneralAntilles, then you know whom to talk to :D22:12
sneakretAre there any successful commercial maemo apps?22:12
GeneralAntillesThey both said they couldn't help with this particular issue. <_<22:13
GeneralAntillessneakret, Rhapsody or Wayfinder, maybe?22:13
GeneralAntillesOtherwise, not really.22:13
MishaSGeneralAntilles, really? :)22:13
X-Fadesneakret: Skype too.22:13
sneakretAh... yeah, Rhapsody seems like a good model, since it's service-based.22:13
sneakretDitto Skype.22:13
* MishaS has become very curious...22:13
sneakretI guess WayFinder may be content-driven too--dunno.22:14
sneakreter... service/content22:14
GeneralAntillesThe service is navigation22:14
X-Fadesneakret: Sure, routing.22:14
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sneakretThe function is navigation. The service is probably delivery of up-to-date map data and such.22:15
GeneralAntillesMishaS, at a minimum, osso-software-version-rx*4 needs to be in every upgrade repository.22:15
GeneralAntillesIt's too easy to accidentally uninstall22:15
MishaSGeneralAntilles, how can you (as a user) accidently uninstall it? :)22:15
GeneralAntillesand easy to get yourself into a reboot loop trying to update without it.22:16
GeneralAntillesMishaS, Red Pill or apt22:16
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GeneralAntillesIf anything at all conflicts with its dependencies22:16
GeneralAntillesit gets removed22:16
GeneralAntillesWhich means something as simple as bumping the version on a library22:16
derfThe one you really don't want to accidentally remove is libconic.22:17
GeneralAntillesand it would make my community troubleshooting job if somebody would be kind enough to upload a very small package to diablo-1. :)22:17
derfIt's very hard to apt-get anything when you have no network.22:17
hrwlibconic suxx22:17
derf(and yes, I've accidentally done that)22:17
hrwlibconic is one of ugliest parts of maemo22:18
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MishaSGeneralAntilles, i'm not sure that it's for mere mortals...22:23
GeneralAntillesHow do you mean?22:24
MishaSGeneralAntilles, red pill?  apt?22:24
GeneralAntillesIs apt not a valid tool?22:24
GeneralAntillesLots and lots of people use apt.22:24
MishaShrw, you might want to provide a constructive feedback at http://bugs.maemo.org22:24
GeneralAntillesMere mortals, even.22:24
derfEvery Debian user knows how to use apt.22:25
MishaSGeneralAntilles, apt directly is for geeks :D22:25
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derfAnd plenty of Ubuntu users.22:25
GeneralAntillesDOS is used in the workplace22:25
MishaSGeneralAntilles, mere mortals use "frontends" -- dselect, synaptic, application manager22:25
sneakretI was very happy when apt-get worked in maemo.22:25
derfI have never, in my life, met anyone who actually uses dselect.22:25
sneakretdselect is horrible.22:25
GeneralAntillesMishaS, either way, that's not a valid excuse in this community.22:25
MishaSderf, nice to meet you :)22:25
sneakretThat was my first exposure to debian, as a long-time slackware user.22:25
sneakretturned me off for quite a while22:26
* MishaS can't grasp synaptics...22:26
derfI used it for about five seconds once.22:26
derfdselect, that is.22:26
* MishaS is using debian since 96, or something...22:26
sneakretThe keyboard interface in dselect is very non-obvious.22:26
* MishaS finds dselect to be _the_ tool22:26
* MishaS is a mere mortal :D22:27
sneakretMere mortals should not suffer with dselect! ;)22:27
MishaSsneakret, i'm not suffering at all :D22:27
sneakretCool then. :)22:28
MishaSsneakret, cool for me :D22:28
__thi, here is t from c-base .. again22:28
__tI am currently setting up a dedicated machine for the summit22:28
__tplan is to have a place for storing video/photos/slides/audio22:29
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GeneralAntillesSounds nice.22:30
__tfirst I start with a webserver+mediawiki.22:30
GeneralAntilles__t, there's at least one guy there who'll be recording in 720p22:30
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andrewfblackwish I was coming to summit would be a nice time to play with my HD video recorder22:37
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__t1andrewfblack: what helds you back?22:39
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dmsupermanDoes anybody else have issues where gpe-calendar seems to randomly start giving me alarms at the incorrect time?23:10
dmsupermanI had an event at 1:30PM today, and it went off on time23:11
dmsupermanBut it also just went off a second time just now (4:09PM)23:11
Stskeepsit might get tricked by deep sleep or the likes?23:13
Stskeepsif it goes off too late23:13
dmsupermanI haven't put it in sleep mode23:13
dmsupermanIt hasn't ran out of battery either23:13
dmsupermanI get the issue quite regularly23:14
dmsupermanIt also seems to ignore the fact that past alarms have already gone off23:14
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dmsupermanAnd occasionally brings them up in the alarm dialog (where you can acknowledge all or dismiss all, etc.)23:14
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dmsupermanI've found the only way to use it without false alarms is to immediately delete the event from my calendar after it occurs23:15
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dmsupermanBut then I lose the archive of my past events which I enjoy use of23:15
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dmsupermanIs there another calendar app for os2008?23:17
Stskeepsthink mcalendar also exists23:17
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dmsupermanI'd prefer one that also syncs with google calendar but it's not a requirement23:17
Stskeepsan osmo port might be in the cards23:17
summatusmentismcalendar syncs with google calendar, sort of23:18
dmsupermansummatusmentis: care to expand?23:19
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summatusmentisdmsuperman: the syncing seems to not recognize the difference between am and pm, and syncing recurrences seems to not work correctly as well23:21
summatusmentisI don't know why, you should talk to khertan about that23:22
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dmsupermansummatusmentis: Other than syncing, does it do the basic job of managing tasks/events, and alarming me of them in advance well?23:23
dmsupermanIs it available in the chinook repos?23:25
dmsupermanThe .install file on seems to point to an invalid installer file23:25
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summatusmentisI don't know if it's available in chinook, and I don't know about alarms. I'm sort of faking my way through gcal->palm cal until mcalendar works better23:26
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summatusmentisdmsuperman: looks like it'll do alarms, but it doesn't seem to sync alarm settings from Google23:27
dmsupermanpalm cal?23:28
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summatusmentisyeah, on my Palm Centro, Palm OS Calendar23:28
dmsupermanOh :(23:28
summatusmentisyeah, I have yet to find a perfect Google Calendar syncing solution23:29
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dmsupermanThat's not even high on the list of priorities23:30
dmsupermanI just want a calendar that works :(23:30
summatusmentisGoogle calendar works :)23:31
summatusmentisit'll even send you a text message as a reminder23:31
dmsupermanI don't do text messages23:31
dmsupermanGoogle calendar also requires internet to use23:32
dmsupermanI need alerts and something that works without internet, otherwise google calendar would work perfectly23:32
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RST38hGeneral: Still here?23:56
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GeneralAntillesI'd dump the development23:59
GeneralAntillesClutters things up a little too much23:59
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