IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2008-09-13

lcukjust because im not writing in c++ doesnt mean i cant take advantage of things :)00:00
lcukwhats broke?00:00
lbtit's kinda broke00:00
lbtit clicks on touch00:00
jottlbt: messed with /etc/ts.conf by any chance? :)00:00
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lbtshould there be a ts.conf normally?00:04
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TPCI have a problem running netcat in xterm on the N80000:04
TPCif I listen on the N800 I can connect to my desktop computer with it00:04
TPCbut I can't connect to my desktop computer (or any computer on the internet) from the pda, the connection just ends immediately, before any data is transfered00:05
TPCany idea what could be wrong?00:05
lbtwhat OS? firewall? iptables?00:05
TPCdebian linux on the desktop, I have a iptables firewall normally but disabled it while debugging00:06
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TPCbut my desktop box isn't the problem, the same thing happens when connecting to, say, port 8000:06
TPCthe web browser can connect to google just fine00:06
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TPCwhat I'm trying to do is stream a movie using netcat to mplayer on the pda, this works fine when doing say "nc -l -p 1234 | mplayer -cache 2048 -" on the pda and "nc pda_ip 1234 < filename.avi" o the desktop box00:07
TPCbut I want to initiate the connection from the N800, so I don't have to walk over to my computer to initiate the streaming00:08
TPCand it just doesn't work00:08
lbtssh <grin>00:09
TPCI suppose that would work, but I still want to know whats wrong :P00:09
ToyKeeperlbt: Increasing the font size appears to work in the main app area, but doesn't change much elsewhere...  got a couple shots to show what changes.00:10
lbtso what are you trying to do/run?00:10
lbtToyKeeper: nice start :)00:10
lbtI seem to have buggered my NIT by playing with tslib and screwing /etc/ts.conf00:11
lbtTPC: I meant what command are you using?00:11
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TPCnc desktop_ip 123400:12
lbtToyKeeper: frankly, I want it to be sexier00:12
jottlbt: my ts.conf just contains module pressure and module linear. but when i played around with tslib and modified ts.conf it also broke ts input under hildon at one point :)00:12
lbtit's a bit boring (and yes, I know it's a shopping list!!!)00:12
TPCif I run in verbose mode it doesn't give an error, just ends immediately saying 0 byte sent, 0 bytes recieved00:13
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TPCand the netcat on the desktop computer never gets the connection00:13
lbtjott: I appear to have removed mine00:13
TPCsame thing happens if I do, say, nc 8000:13
jottlbt: maybe add those two lines and see if it helps?00:13
lbtI thought I was playing in initfs00:14
lbtam doing ta00:14
TPCI think it may just be a bug in the maemo build of netcat00:14
lbtjott: Thanks :)00:15
lbtTPC - sounds like it. I wonder if netcat is trying to connect to a terminal or something?00:15
lbtshould work in an xterm...00:15
TPChm.. I wonder if the one from debians arm distribution would work00:16
lbtwhat about sshing into the tablet from the PC00:16
jottlbt: ah nice. did it work?00:16
lbtyes that got my menus back00:16
lcukjott :) you saved the world again00:16
TPClbt, that works fine00:16
lbtthen running nc00:16
lbtie ssh to tablet and run nc 8000:17
TPCI'll try00:17
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TPCnote, same thing00:17
lbtnc --help00:17
lbtit may be an old version00:17
lbtalso nc -t ?00:18
lbtso nc -t 8000:18
TPCexactly the same00:18
TPCcan I paste 4 lines in here?00:18
lbtRST38h: does!00:19
TPCfor version it says gnu netcat 0.7.100:19
TPCwhen downloading binaries from debians arm distribution should use download from the arm or armel distro?00:20
TPCthey don't have a maemo distro00:20
lbtthat may be the problem...00:20
lbtmaemo isn't debian...00:20
TPCI know, but some of the binaries are compatible00:20
TPCI didn't get the current copy of netcat from there00:20
lbtit has different build deps00:20
TPCyes, I'll extract the deb on my desktop and copy over the files00:21
TPCI did it for some other package and it worked fine00:21
lbtit's trivial to apt-get source netcat00:21
lbtand then run debian/rules binary00:21
lbtinside scratchbox00:21
lbt(although, granted, setting it up isn't trivial)00:22
TPCI don't have scratchbox, would be a bit of a pain for me to set up since I run a 64 bit os00:22
TPCwould have to set up a 32 bit chroot or something00:22
lbtyou chinook?00:22
lbtor diablo?00:22
lbtah, hibernation over trenka?00:23
TPChm.. that seems to work00:24
trenkano trenka around00:24
TPCdownloaded this:
lbtTPC: I just built it for you too00:25
lbtwant a netcat-traditional_1.10-38_armel.deb00:25
TPCsure, I guess00:25
lbtlet me at least install/test first00:25
lbtto make sure it works!!00:26
trenkaany like kernel developer around?00:26
RST38hjott: still here?00:26
lbtTPC: yep, works fine00:26
trenkaI'm not approved to get maemo sammit00:26
TPCok :)00:27
TPCmaybe you should see if you can use it to replace the ones in the extras repo00:27
TPCas that one seems broken00:27
ToyKeeperHmm, I hadn't tried a shopping list on my todo list app before.  It seems to work fine except for being designed for vim users.00:27
lbton its way TPC00:28
TPCgot it, installing now00:29
lbtToyKeeper: which todo list is that?00:29
TPClbt, yep, it works00:30
lbtcool :)00:30
TPCso there are three different implementations of netcat, gnu, traditional, and openbsd00:30
ToyKeeperlbt: TKDO ( ) ...  I haven't packaged it for maemo yet.00:30
ToyKeeperIt works; I just haven't fixed up some details and added packaging.
jottRST38h: yes.00:31
lbtI just did: apt-get source netcat; dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b00:31
lbtso whatever came down...00:31
lbt<innocent>do you have a version that works with emacs org-mode files?00:32
RST38hjott: sorry, my computer keeps crashin00:33
RST38hAnyway here is what I have for the update struct00:33
RST38h      FBUpdate.x      = 0;00:33
RST38h      FBUpdate.y      = 0;00:33
RST38h      FBUpdate.width  = FBImg.W;00:33
RST38h      FBUpdate.height = FBImg.H;00:33
RST38h      FBUpdate.format = OMAPFB_COLOR_RGB56500:33
RST38h                      | OMAPFB_FORMAT_FLAG_TEARSYNC00:33
RST38h                      | OMAPFB_FORMAT_FLAG_FORCE_VSYNC;00:33
jottyou need to set the output rect too i would say.00:34
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TPCthis is nice, netcat and mplayer makes a nice combo00:36
RST38hcan I set different w/h?00:37
lbtTPC - wiki entry?00:37
jottRST38h: yes. it then uses the hw scaling.00:37
TPCnow I don't have to copy over video files to the sd card when watching on the N800 within range of my wifi00:37
TPCnow to figure out how to get mencoder to output to a pipe00:37
TPCso I don't have to wait for encoding and can just start watching right away :)00:37
TPClbt, good idea00:37
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RST38hjott: wow00:38
RST38hgonna try that =)00:38
RST38hare there predefined scaling factors or any factor will work?00:39
jottRST38h: any factor should do.00:39
jottit's really just input rect -> output rect :)00:39
jottsweet :)00:41
lbtRST38h: whacha working on?00:41
RST38hGBA emulator00:42
lbtOK :)00:42
lbtI just want to draw simple things on the fb from initfs00:43
lbtone day...00:43
moontigerlbt: hehehe i hear ya00:43
Stskeepslbt: did you see fb-progress source?00:45
lcukjott, i thought scaling only applied for yuv mode, yes rgb can have pixeldoubling, but i was sure it didnt work - i think its why mplayer remains as it is00:45
jottlcuk: hmm.. sure?00:45
lcukwell all the attempts at rgb scaling have been to get pixeldoubling working00:45
jotti thought it's more a limitation on the X11 side.00:45
lcukno, if you have the data you should be able to push it over and have the hardware scale it00:46
lbtStskeeps: no, not yet - playing with tslib still (again)00:46
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lcukyou tell it a region because thats all you want to update00:46
lbtI'll make a note though - ta00:46
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jottwas some time ago i did the fb stuff, so you might be right.00:46
jottbest bet to just try it :)00:46
lcukjott, if it was so simple to do arbitary scaling everyone would have it ..00:46
RST38hI will try in a moment00:47
jotteveryone as in,..... ?!00:47
lcukgood thanks rst00:47
lcukyou are in a position right now :)00:47
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jottthere is nearly no one using the fb directly :)00:47
jottmplayer probably the only one ..hehe00:47
lcukmplayer does, sdl does00:48
jott(as in omapfb, not linux fb)00:48
jottsdl? no..00:48
RST38hyea, the missionary position...00:48
mikmahow can i give '-100' value with gconftool for /apps/osso/sound/master_volume ?00:48
jottsdl has an omapfb backend?00:48
jottsince when?00:48
mikmai've tried pretty much all i know but no luck00:48
jottand where?00:48
lcukhang on it calls X11_MITSHMUpdate(current_video,1,&rect); which calls it - it should have been possible to natively support arbitary res still00:49
jottyeah thats completely different stuff :)00:50
lcuki said yes because i was following down sometime in the past00:50
lcukyer i realise no00:50
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jottwell RST38h can tell us in moment. would be nice to know for sure :)00:50
RST38bisfuck, battery just ran out00:50
RST38bisnp, rebooting from pwr outlet00:51
jottalways sucks to get a black screen when you are in the middle of something..00:52
lcukyou have that moment of panic "did i make a whoopsie"00:52
RST38bisx3 seems to work fine00:53
RST38bisanyone wants me to try something different?00:53
TPCwhoo, it works00:53
TPCencoding to good quality and streaming on the fly to mplayer on n80000:53
jottRST38h: try full 800x480? :)00:54
lbtTPC :)00:54
RST38bisi am doing just that00:54
lbtTPC now integrate it into MythTV...00:54
lbt(shouldn't be that hard actually)00:54
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lcukslashdot/sourceforge down :(01:04
melmothOMG they killed the interoueb !01:06
Stskeepslcuk: good riddance.. with those ads sf deserved it01:06
lcukthey did when i need a tarball from there01:06
lcuki agree sts01:07
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jottlcuk: there are plenty of mirrors for the files :)01:09
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lcukgulp, i got the one i needed and now im gonna walk away01:10
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fredyrivera I ask a question about touch screen?01:29
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fredyriveraThe touch screen of my n810 has suffered damage, someone knows a way to turn off the touch screen and work only with the sliding keyboard?01:31
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lcukfredyrivera, someone earlier had a problem where touchscreen was disabled for him, i gather its damaged and always pressed on something?01:34
lcukor is this possibly a software symptom01:35
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fredyriverayes, my ts is always clicking, so I wish disable01:36
lcuklbt, was your screen completely disabbled by your vandalism?01:37
lcukfredyrivera, what actually happened?01:37
TPClbt, any others interested:
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lcukand can you not just get a warranty replacement?01:38
fredyriveraI live in colombia and the device was buy in the U.S., Nokia has no repair service in colombia.01:41
lcukif you have a us receipt you could at least contact nokia and see what they say about posting it01:42
fredyrivera I think if I send the parts, I could change it, but it's hard to sell such parts01:42
fredyriverawould pay the repair, but who will not be repaired01:44
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fredyriverafor now, I wish to disable the TS to work as my n810 Gps, as I do that?01:46
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lcukjust scrollin back now to see how he fixed his problem01:47
lcukperhaps you could attempt to unfix his problam and stop screen working01:47
lcukahh, it might not work, but the user had removed a file "/etc/ts.conf"  and it broke his tablet and nothing would click properly01:49
fredyriveraI do not want to turn off the screen, only the TS, I can also operate the device by ssh or x11vnc, but it is annoying that always click01:49
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fredyriverammm, I was very happy with my n810, mapping colombia for, but an excursion was beating and damage: (01:52
lcuk:( thats not good01:53
* sp3000 suspects mangling pointercal wouldn't help01:53
Chanimy n810's networkmanager has lost itself twice today. first it was connecting forever, now it's searching forever. how do I restart it without rebooting?01:53
sp3000Chani: try going into offline mode? (short powerbutton press -> ...)01:54
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Chanisp3000: no luck01:54
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Chaniit still lists the networks from school, and I'm at home, and it never finishes searching01:55
RST38bisok, framerates are way up with fb001:55
Chanialso, the web browser has been going crazy a lot since I upgraded01:55
sp3000hm, like you exit the scanning dialog and come back and it shows wrong networks?01:55
RST38bisgetting 20-25fps in vgba01:56
Chaniwhere's the | character?01:56
RST38bisbedtime =]01:56
Chanisp3000: yes, wrong networks and "searching" forever01:56
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sp3000Chani: Chr, second page01:56
Chanifound it01:57
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* sp3000 mapped it to Fn -01:57
Chaniany idea what the network-y processes might be called?01:57
fredyrivera Now I have to disconnect, if someone has an idea, please send me a mail to fredyrivera at gmail dot com01:58
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fredyriverathanks for the help01:58
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sp3000Chani: I suppose you could |/etc/init.d/this-or-that restart| for random things until you get success, reboot, or an even more confused state ;)02:00
Chanihrm. I need to get bash completion on this thing02:00
Chaniand ssh-server02:00
Chanisp3000: will I be able to do that without root?02:01
sp3000icd2 is the intarwebs connectorification dabbler, wlancond is a wee lan condensator doohickey02:02
* sp3000 needs sleep :)02:03
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GeneralAntillesAStorm, with good wifi powersaving and everything? I don't think so. :P02:45
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GeneralAntillesBleh, he's back at it again03:00
GeneralAntillesThat article seriously needs to die.03:00
GeneralAntilles"How to break your tablet in 10 easy steps"03:00
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GeneralAntillesSnarky shit like this doesn't belong in the wiki:
GeneralAntillesIt needs to die. . . .03:02
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mdganyone care to troubleshoot vnc on nokia 770 running os 200603:08
mdgtrying to connect from linux mint PC to nokia 770 via vncserver on mint pc03:09
mdgdo I need anything other than vnc/vncserver installed on both?03:09
dystopiaGeneralAntilles: such comments are the reason for Talk:03:10
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dystopiathe page doesn't even have proper capitalisation03:10
GeneralAntillesdystopia, yes, which is yet another reason why I want the article dead. ;)03:11
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GeneralAntillesThe primary reason, of course, being that the method described is _extremely_ unstable and unsafe03:11
GeneralAntillesand is superseded by a much better method:03:12
infobotsomebody said boot-sd was
mdgwhat's the command for connecting via VNC to nokia from PC03:13
dystopiamove it to some obscure wiki :> is there a process to declare a page for deletion?03:13
GeneralAntillesYeah, I already tried.03:14
GeneralAntillesHe spazzed out03:14
GeneralAntillesand qgil jumped in and defended him for some goddamn reason03:14
dystopiawell what he stated could be reworded in far less lines...03:15
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GeneralAntillesI could fix the article up myself03:16
GeneralAntillesbut why?03:16
GeneralAntillesSo there can be a good article for a really, really, terrible method of getting more application install space?03:16
GeneralAntillesI don't think so.03:16
mdgVNC anyone?03:17
dystopialess garbage makes it easier to read03:17
GeneralAntillesmdg, if you installed x11vnc on the tablet, then there should be a menu entry to start it03:17
GeneralAntillesthen find yourself a client on the Linux machine and connect to your tablet's IP.03:17
GeneralAntillesdystopia, I don't want anything about it to be easy. ;)03:18
GeneralAntillesI want it deleted.03:18
mdgyes, trying to connect from my PC to the tablet via vnc03:18
mdgdon't understand the commands:  vnc XXXXX (ip address = XXXX) and then what03:19
crashanddie~seen dneary03:19
infobotdneary <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 9h 55m 6s ago, saying: 'Community file storage and content management - there's a problem space that we're not good at yet'.03:19
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mdgdo I need ssh as well in 200603:21
dystopiawhy not simplt delete it ;>03:21
GAN800dystopia, because I made the mistake of trying to go about it the nice way the first time aroumd03:22
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, what's the fuss about?03:22
GAN800Now I need some sort of consensus.03:22
crashanddieGAN800, ask me, I'm always impartial, fair, just, and agreeing with the one who pays most03:23
crashanddieCreate a template for pages that are outdated and are currently under discussion03:24
crashanddiewe can actually make it big and ugly so that no one misses it03:24
GAN800Already exists03:24
crashanddiethen why isn't it on this page?03:24
GAN800It's not really 'out-of-date' though03:24
crashanddiesometimes the wiki on maemo is such a mess03:24
GAN800I try. :P03:25
crashanddieTell me where you need a hand03:25
crashanddieI'm serious, gimme directives. In a dayjob, I know what I have to do. In a community, I never know, because everything I try will always piss off someone03:25
crashanddieGAN800, I are your base03:26
GeneralAntillesWell, put a comment on the talk page under the deletion thread that you're in favor of deleting.03:26
GeneralAntillesSome general stuff is outlined here:
GeneralAntillesNeeds updating, though.03:27
GeneralAntillesSlap your name on the bottom of that list.03:27
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GeneralAntillesThese are the old midgard articles:
GeneralAntillesThey all need to be fixed up and cleaned03:28
GeneralAntillesA karma plugin for the wiki would be really useful03:29
GeneralAntillesso if you want to poke bergie about getting going on that. . . .03:29
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles, what's the plugin supposed to do?03:33
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, see who works a lot on different pages?03:33
mdgno luck with vnc03:33
crashanddieactually, lcuk uses vnc quite a lot :D03:33
lcukonly at work03:34
GAN800Grab the number of edits from each user, do a karma calculation on that number and add it to a user's karma count.03:34
crashanddielcuk, it was just a poor wordplay on "no lcuk with vnc"03:34
GAN800So, if you login and click 'prefs' up top it'll show you your edits03:34
crashanddieactually, that shouldn't be a wiki plugin03:35
GAN800Need to find a better interface to get that number and collect them for karma.03:35
GAN800karma plugon03:35
GAN800for midgard03:35
GAN800that calculates karma for the wiki03:36
crashanddiehave you seen dneary's proposition?03:36
crashanddieI quite like it, tbh03:36
GAN800about what?03:36
mdgIgot a message that the New X desktop is name-desktop03:37
crashanddiewebsite refreshing03:37
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GAN800Oh, yeah, haven't done more than sci. it.03:37
crashanddiethis is just so true03:38
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mdggeez,I can'teven get VNC working!03:47
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lcukstart the server on your n810, start the client on your pc, enter ip of your nokia in connection box and bingo!03:48
lcukif theres a firewall or routing problem then thats your configuration issue03:49
* lcuk is not an underpant gnome03:49
crashanddielcuk, no, but you live up north and talk funny, therefore, you must be one of the forefathers of Slashdot03:53
lcukive got a 6 digit uid on /. you tell me if im a forefather03:54
lcukby the way crashanddie, is it considered multitouch if you keep one finger still?03:56
lcukwell, thumb03:56
mdglcuk is 770 running os200603:56
crashanddielcuk, i've been thinking about that03:56
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lcukmdg, excellent, at least graphically ill be faster than this 81003:57
lcukwell i kinda have the algo in place, but its a bit jittery atm - needs a filtering stage to make it work better03:57
mdgwhat would be the name of the vnc client on a pc03:58
lcukvncviewer.exe or similar, have you never used vnc?03:59
mdgno never have03:59
lcukahhh that explains it then04:00
* lcuk thought vnc was taught in kindergarden04:00
mdgoh i type vncviewer and had a pop-up box and when I typed in the IP of my nokia it was unab le to connecty04:00
lcukdo you have a firewall between your pc and your nokia04:00
mdgit says "no route to host"04:01
lcuksoftware on pc, on router etc04:01
lcukcan you ping your nokia from your pc04:01
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mdgpc I am using is running Mint Cassadra connected via wifi to router configured as AP04:01
mdgconnection refused - uh oh04:03
lcukcrashanddie, is the nokia pingable by default? (i seem to recall it is)04:04
crashanddielcuk, yeah04:08
lcukthought so, mine is now, but wasnt sure if i'd added anyfink04:08
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mdgI can't believe this is so hard!04:12
lcukits not, you simply have a paranoid security configuration :)04:12
mdgyeah, leave it to me to be paranoid!  LOL04:13
lcukbest security is to restrict services from the network :)04:14
lcukis it your router thats fudgin you or a software firewall on your pc04:15
mdgno firewall on either mint pc04:15
mdgwindows pc isnt' even turned on04:16
lcukahhhh that explains the paranoia :)04:16
* lcuk cant talk - im runnin in windows04:17
lcukis your 810 connected to the network?04:18
derfSo, QR code decoding works.04:18
lcukcan it see the other machines and the wider internet04:18
lcukNICE derf04:18
lcukor should i say 1001101010101101110104:18
derfI've got one code I can't decode, but I can't decide if it's just totally broken, or some other variation of the format.04:18
derfThe version bits are in the wrong order, for example.04:19
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mdgsee other machines?04:19
lcukis it a random image you found online, or a live in use code on a product04:19
derfRandom image online, of course.04:19
lcukmdg, yeah your network should be crawling with other infected zombies ;)04:19
lcukhave you tried mirror/flipping it - or does the algo cater for it04:20
mdginfected zombies?04:20
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derflcuk: No, I mean, they're interleaved in the wrong order.04:20
derfNo amount of flipping will help you.04:20
lcukahhh, but i have seen people often randomly flip barcodes for asthetic purposes ;)04:20
derfAs in, they're in a 3x6 area, and the bits read down columns, instead of across rows.04:21
lcukwhat other places have the codes available04:21
lcukcan you goto a shop and test it04:21
derfI haven't got it into the full app yet.04:21
derfJust a command-line program for testing.04:21
lcukarent the best programs command line driven04:22
derfOf course, but it makes it inconvenient to use in the actual device.04:22
derfI want to do some more work on the binarization, too.04:23
derfIt's got some pretty clear deficiencies.04:23
lcukglad you are advancing though :) is this all your own code or have you swiped and converted on of the java (or other) libs04:24
derfThis is basically all my own.04:25
derfI started with someone else's Reed-Solomon decoder, but I changed it a lot.04:25
lcukmangling is fun04:26
mdgoh well - thanks for the help04:26
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derfI should let the guy doing the Java one know.04:27
derfThe generator polynomial he's using is starting from the wrong index, so it's totally busted.04:28
lcukeven though you turned his canoe into an ocean going liner04:28
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derfThe only reason his code works at all is that it doesn't correctly reject things when there's too many errors.04:28
lcukbrute force04:30
derfThis has nothing to do with brute force.04:30
t_s_ois it me or is itt overrun by trolls these days?04:32
lcuktso, not noticed so many - where in particular?04:33
lcukderf, if hes not rejecting bad codes and checking them anyway - its bruteforce04:33
t_s_oheh, i guess i should stop reading/replying to the 200 page monstrosity...04:34
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derflcuk: No, his error correction is incorrectly determining that valid codes have lots and lots of errors, and then failing to reject them as undecodable.04:34
derfHence it "works".04:35
crashanddieI'm going to have to get back using java :/04:35
derfBut, you know, not really.04:35
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Chanihrm. so the n810 takes SD-mini? I haven't even seen mini for sale before... it's all sd or micro04:36
lcuklots of micros come with an adapter for mini04:37
* Chani really wishes it would take sdhc. then I could put a decent amount of space in there04:37
lcukit does04:37
Chaniisn't sdhc the same size as sd?04:37
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crashanddieChani, SDHC is a standard04:40
crashanddieChani, it just means it's over 4Gig04:40
crashanddieChani, has nothing to do with the form factor itself04:40
Chanioh. :)04:41
Chanido you know what size the micro cards go up to?04:41
crashanddie16gig coming out soon04:41
lcukmicro sd cards are all the same size :D04:41
lcuk"keep this safe, its listers brain"04:42
user__What's the coolest app nokia has?04:42
user__What's that?04:43
crashanddieChani, so it's around 50 quid, should be out in a month's time04:43
Chaniooh, 1604:43
Chaninice :)04:43
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lcukuser__, its my own software, of course i think its the coolest thing on nokia :D04:44
user__What's it do?04:44
lcukcool stuff04:45
lcukhave a look on youtube :)04:45
crashanddielcuk, lol...04:45
crashanddielcuk, I hate red dwarf04:45
Chanibut.. but... it's red dwarf! :)04:46
lcuk:D i grew up with that04:46
lcukits the best comedy on and off earth04:46
user__Watchinged it now04:46
* Chani can play the theme song 04:46
crashanddielcuk, I think that's the difference04:46
crashanddielcuk, you're a 30-odd Briton04:47
crashanddieI'm a 20-odd frenchman04:47
lcukforget the 20 and the frenchman ;)04:47
crashanddieslightly different culture04:47
crashanddielol... this is just sad04:48
crashanddieI was feeling this hard cold thing04:48
crashanddiein my bed04:48
crashanddieI start looking for what it could be04:48
lcukeverytime i think of memory sticks i think of that clip04:48
crashanddiefound a empty bottle of beer04:48
user__Wow! That's cool lcuk!04:49
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user__Wish i had an 80004:49
crashanddieuser__, you got an 770?04:50
user__Lol! Yes the only one in existence?04:51
crashanddieNo, I just find there's a lot of 770 users popping up recently04:51
crashanddielcuk, don't you?04:51
lcukdont i what? find beer bottles in bed?04:52
user__Mine was cheaper by a lot04:52
lcukuser__, which os are you runnin on it?04:52
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user__Os 2006 - can't get it to upgrade04:54
lcukwhat do you use it for04:54
user__Window wouldn't find hacker 2007 os04:55
user__Just a little bit of everything04:55
* lcuk is using too many question marks. time for bed i think04:56
crashanddielcuk, last fag? Let's smoke a social one04:56
lcukive just put mine out04:56
lcukif you roll me one and mail it me04:57
user__Goodnight fellas04:57
lcuknite user04:57
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lcukcrashanddie, is this just the best cheezburger ever?
crashanddieI like it, but there's one I like even more04:58
crashanddiehang on, lemme fetch it04:58
lcuktheres been a few gooduns recently, but everytime i encounter that one i lol04:59
lcukyou have an account?04:59
lcuklol tis ok i posted before i saw - thought it was from your profile05:00
crashanddielcuk, btw, if my experience for job hunting has learned me something: 1 get a linkedin profile, 2 get your name high on google05:01
lcukanyone can get their name high on google :)05:01
crashanddieI mean with important stuff05:02
lcukit all depends on what the search terms are05:02
lcukyou mean your own name linked with decent stuff05:02
lcuk:) then that is sorted05:03
crashanddieI mean like a small sober professional looking homepage, with links to your greatest work, and snippets of your code05:03
gregoroviuslcuk: you can only claim to have the best app for the NITs _once_ you have released something, not before :P05:03
lcukits in the garage and is open source05:03
crashanddieshowing how you're a great dev, how you're a great documenter, etc05:04
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gregorovius"This project has not released any files."05:04
crashanddiegregorovius, look better05:04
lcukgregorovius, svn05:04
lcuktheres no deb but the code is there - there should be a major update in about a week or so05:05
lcukfingers crossed05:05
crashanddies/should/is going to/05:05
gregoroviusi know you're working on it, but I mean release-.deb-maemo-extras05:05
lcukgregorovius, ive never used any of this linuxy stuff before this year, so its all new and uphill for me05:05
gregoroviusyou seem to be making good progress :)05:06
crashanddiegregorovius, trust me, it's worth the wait05:06
gregoroviusyeah, i'm waiting to see what the summit brings05:06
lcuki would prefer to hire a junior to handle the packaging and documenting and stuff :)05:06
lcukhah! the way im feeling right now im not sure ill have stuff done, but as you said ive got the weekend05:06
gregoroviusbtw, has anyone seen the predictive keyboard method posted in ITT?05:06
lcukgregorovius, the one from the t9 guy?05:07
lcukit was discussed today and a few prior art things were found so its fair game :)05:07
lcukall i need is a dictionary05:07
crashanddieit's buggy05:07
crashanddiebut "works for me"05:08
gregoroviusI'd really like to try out something like that05:08
gregoroviusif it works as advertised, it'd kick the onscreen keyboard's ass thrice05:08
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crashanddieIf I manage to fine tune it, maybe lcuk will be able to demo my version of it during the Summit :P05:08
lcukwheres the actual itt thread?05:08
lcukhave you tried an implimentation crash/05:09
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crashanddielcuk, I have the vectors working, key detection is a bit dodgy, and word matching is too wide/slow05:10
crashanddielcuk, can take up to 10s to find a 5 letter word05:12
crashanddieand for some reason "considerate" makes it segfault05:12
lcukit shouldnt need to do anything like that - it should walk down a tree of words05:12
crashanddielcuk, I wrote in like... 3 hours05:13
lcukwith a preinitialized wordtree it should be practically instant05:13
lcukare you reading the flattext wordlist file?05:14
crashanddieI'm using regexp05:14
lcukthat might explain it then05:14
crashanddieyeah I know, but like I said, I need to tune it05:15
crashanddieI just wanted to see if I could get it work "run"05:15
lcukhave you got a wordlist file handy?05:15
crashanddiethink I do, hang on05:15
lcukmail it me please - if its not too big ill have a try tomorrow05:15
lcukthe ones i found were quite volumous and not right for preloading05:16
lcukand i didnt wanna mess with sqlite yet05:16
crashanddiehow's 1M sound?05:16
lcukbigger than the ones i tried..05:16
lcuknot to worry05:16
crashanddieactually... 1M in memory isn't that drastic, is it?05:17
crashanddieyou just got me thinking :P05:17
crashanddieI'm calling it a night05:17
crashanddietalk to you later bro05:17
lcukgnite chan05:18
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GeneralAntillesYes, t_s_o, itT is full of trolls.08:22
GeneralAntillesI'd just as soon leave them to it08:24
GeneralAntillesitT hasn't been useful in a very long time.08:24
t_s_oto bad really08:28
GeneralAntillesMeh, if they're wasting their energy there, they're not wasting it at productive places like ;)08:30
* Stskeeps is definately wasting his time making dpkg-buildpackage'able deblet packages.08:35
Stskeepsas in, hours i wish could get back of my life08:36
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Stskeepshm, anyone who knows if you can make a package depend on name-<kernel version user is running>?08:50
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RST38hitalo: ?09:22
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jrayhawkI need to work out what's going wrong during init on an n810; is there a workable equivalent to single user mode or init=/bin/sh or even getting rid of the splash screen so I can get output more useful than a meaningless blue status bar?09:50
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Stskeepsjrayhawk: there's a thread about this on ITT regarding fb console mode i believe09:57
jrayhawkI guess the serial console is another option, though documentation for that seems a bit scattered and confusing10:00
RST38hafaik there is no fb console mode10:00
RST38hat least not in the default kernel10:01
StskeepsRST38h: it's loadable with a module10:01
Stskeeps(i do it in deblet on a stock kernel)10:01
jrayhawkIs the n810 keyboard kernel keymapped or is it X event magic?10:03
jrayhawkX-interpreted event10:03
Stskeepsit's in input0-3 or something10:04
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jrayhawkUhh... where do I find the maemo ("omap1"?) patchset?10:18
jrayhawkFor the kernel, that is.10:19
Stskeepsyou want the .o's needed? :P10:19
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jrayhawkOh. I figured it was open source.10:20
Stskeepsyeah, it is, but it's easier with .o's :P10:20
Stskeeps , , is what i use in Deblet to make the console fb work10:20
Stskeeps(look at the init.d scripts for inspiration)10:20
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jrayhawkI was hoping to go the monolithic route on the basis that I want to give userspace as little opportunity as possible to screw up my debugging efforts.10:23
jrayhawkPlus the monolithic route enables me to replace the kernel and nothing else.10:23
jrayhawk(Which is, for some reason, a constraint on the bizarre flasher tool)10:24
jrayhawks/ on / in /10:24
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jrayhawkIs it possible to make a copy of the rootfs or initfs currently on a Nokia?10:28
jrayhawkI mean, given the constraint that I can't fully boot it because init seems to be broken.10:30
jrayhawkHow is that done?10:30
Stskeepsjrayhawk: i think you can prod qwerty12 - he did some work in that area10:31
Stskeepswith a initfs hack10:31
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* Sargun bo11:14
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RST38hhello, zap11:46
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zapRST38h: hi11:48
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JaffaMorning all11:51
lbthi everyone11:52
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MishaSjaffa: fyi, i put fbreader in extras :)) would you re-consider your rating? :D12:03
RST38hmoo, GA12:03
JaffaMishaS: yup, will do12:03
MishaSJaffa, thank you12:03
RST38hJaffa: You marked FBreader down for not being in Extras? Inexcusable!12:03
* RST38h kindly suggests to burn Jaffa at a stake12:04
MishaSRST38h, that's just one way to encourage lazy developers :)12:04
JaffaRST38h: gotta have some stick to wield ;-)12:04
GeneralAntillesI like endlessly badgering the mailing list myself. ;)12:04
* MishaS dreams of having gronmeyer useless...12:04
Stskeepsthere should really be a package search engine for the extras/etc though12:05
Stskeepslike for diablo/sdk tools etc12:05
GeneralAntillesferenc is working on it12:05
JaffaMishaS: I don't use Gronmeyer - I don't think there are (m)any apps I've got installed which aren't from extras(-devel)12:06
MishaSjaffa, you do not, but others do...12:06
JaffaGeneralAntilles: a la ?12:06
GeneralAntillesgronmayer's usefulness has gone down a lot since Diablo.12:06
JaffaMishaS: oh, indeed - I hope it goes away by having more stuff in extras :)12:06
Stskeepshopefully more stable than packages.debian.org12:06
GeneralAntillesIt's not even up-to-date anymore.12:06
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I suppose, ferenc mentioned he wanted to take it on during one of the previous sprint meetings.12:07
mikkov_is the still in Gronmayer? ;)12:07
JaffaMishaS: has the old fbreader repo been removed from gronmayer?12:07
GeneralAntillesOnly the Chinook repos12:07
GeneralAntillesHa, forgot about this one:
GeneralAntillesWish X on the VGA weren't so godawful slow.12:09
mikkov_somebody even put link to maemo downloads .install file...12:09
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MishaSjaffa: nope12:09
RST38hSts: Search engine exists:
MishaSha, that reminded me to update the 'download' page for fbreader to mention extras...12:10
RST38hSts: And it is even MicroB friendly unlike Gronmayer12:10
RST38hMishaS: Btw, can I request to [optionally] show current time in FBReader?12:10
JaffaIt does, doesn't it?12:11
JaffaIn full screen mode, isn't the time at the bottom right of the screen?12:11
mikkov_requiring buildable sources for extras is the best thing happened for maemo, imo12:11
RST38hNope - have to minimize it to check whether you have exceeded your daily no-sleep allowance12:11
MishaSRST38h, can you elaborate please?12:11
GeneralAntillesRST38h, it shows time right next to the progress bar12:11
RST38hLemme check12:12
GeneralAntillesYou can see it right here:
JaffaMishaS: re-rated12:12
MishaSRST38h, you might need to enable it in options.12:12
MishaSjaffa: thank you12:12
GeneralAntillesFBReader should probably go into the Pearls now, too.12:12
RST38hMishaS: Ah! Checking.12:12
RST38hGA: Should be there already12:12
JaffaRST38h: shouldn't have been, cos that's a carrot of getting in extras12:13
RST38hyea, time is there!12:13
RST38hJaffa: umgh12:13
* RST38h still does not understand obsession with extras and source packages there12:13
MishaSGeneralAntilles, it used to be there... i'm not sure what it means though :)12:14
GeneralAntillesWhat's not to understand?12:14
RST38hthey are of course handy, but why take them so religiously?12:14
MishaSRST38h, package in extras means that the user can install it without any additional hassle12:14
JaffaThe "obsession" about Extras is that it's installed on all devices by default. Source packages give us flexibility when a package author disappears (as has happened many times)12:14
RST38hMishaS: I have got a few packages in extras, I know12:14
GeneralAntillesOne of the long-term goals is to have Extras ship enabled.12:14
RST38hAnd it should have been done long time ago too12:15
GeneralAntillesWell, Nokia has its own ass to watch out for.12:15
RST38hJaffa: This is only useful if there are people willing to maintain those packages12:15
RST38hJaffa: My guess is that Nokia will end up hiring somebody specificially for package creation and maintenance12:16
JaffaRST38h: there've been a number of instances where someone published a binary package, without source and then never updated it.12:16
RST38hJaffa: not a problem as far as I am concerned: if the author does not like his work, why should we use it?12:16
JaffaRST38h: because if it's a package like X-Chat, the work done in Hildonising it will have to be reinvented when someone wants to pick it up12:17
RST38hAnd if he does, he will take care of it12:17
RST38hJaffa: True but such is life :)12:17
JaffaBut not with source packages ;-)12:17
RST38hIsn't life about doing the same crap over and over again? =)12:17
MishaSRST38h, that's not very optimistic... but it tends to be true... :)12:18
RST38hJaffa: Well, one concern I have is that Nokia will change APIs more drastically in the next 1-2 MaemoOS releases. Then having sources won't help unless there is someone willing to go through them12:18
mikkov_old sources still make it easier to update things12:19
RST38hExample: sooner or later someone will have to take care of stupid hw keycode assignments12:19
RST38hmikkov: yea, but you won't get the "just a rebuild" advantage12:20
JaffaRST38h: Surely you can see that having some source for an earlier API is going to be easier to update, than one without? Even in terms of GUI customisations for the small screen etc.12:20
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RST38hJaffa: Yes, it will definitely help12:20
MishaSwell, with sources available Nokia could invest a bit of time to see how compatible existing apps are with new APIs :)12:20
MishaScheck binary compatibility is more difficult12:20
JaffaRST38h: No-one's claiming it'll always be a straight recompile - although for chinook->diablo, diablo Extras could be primed with source packages from chinook Extras12:21
RST38hJaffa: but to be actually useful it requires a person willing to change it - this is very important and it is social not technical detail12:21
JaffaRST38h: and that helpeyness is why we like source packages12:21
* RST38h still using chinook rootstrap btw12:21
mikkov_RST38h: yes, so what? we don't know when api breaks, and even if does, without old sources _everything_ has to be redone12:21
GeneralAntillesHrm, is Downloads being funky with comments again?12:21
RST38hsb2 diablo rootstrap is broken12:21
JaffaRST38h: of course it still requires someone to pick it up if the original author goes away, but the barrier to entry for that person is dimisnhed12:21
mikkov_I have been working to get leafpad and aisleriot from bora to chinook, and it is painful because old sources were not there12:23
mikkov_ah to diablo12:23
RST38hAnyone knows where to report sb2 bugs?12:23
GeneralAntillesmikkov_, by the way, I installed Beneath a Steel Sky the other day.12:24
mikkov_then you have to crawl around net to find the sources12:24
GeneralAntilles_Really_ slick.12:24
RST38hmikkov: google to the rescue =)12:24
MishaSRST38h, according to, it's
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mikkov_GeneralAntilles: BASS is one of the finest adventure games, and it's free now ;)12:25
mikkov_need to get that scummvm to diablo extras12:25
GeneralAntillesHehe, time to get to bugging fanoush12:26
GeneralAntillesI'm a bit surprised it isn't already in there, actually.12:26
MishaSfanoush, already expressed his opinion in the ml12:26
mikkov_actually i put to extras-devel12:26
MishaSs/, / /12:26
infobotMishaS meant: fanoush already expressed his opinion in the ml12:26
GeneralAntillesOh did he?12:27
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MishaSyes, there are some problems with packaging and he does not want to spend his time on that12:27
MishaShe needs help12:27
mikkov_scummvm is in extras devel with all features enabled, but fanoush wants to use tremor instead of vorbis12:27
GeneralAntillesmikkov_, sounds like an opportunity. :P12:27
mikkov_and I can't get tremor to work at all12:28
MishaSfanoush was talking about special parameters for compilation, i think...12:28
MishaSrelated to code generation issues...12:28
RST38hMishaS: Weird...12:29
mikkov_everything else is sorted out except tremor12:29
RST38hMishaS: I filed it at, hopefully somebody will pick it up12:29
MishaSRST38h, the bug about?..12:29
RST38hWhoever encountered this, please confirm:
* MishaS . o O (or is it "a bug about?..)12:30
RST38hMishaS: their diablo rootstrap depends on a newer development version of libhildonfm2 that has not yet been distributed to the general userbase12:30
RST38hSo whatever you build with it will not install12:30
MishaSi'll check with suomya... :)12:31
RST38hAnd now, let us create timeless some work...12:31
MishaSRST38h, he does not need help with that... :)12:32
MishaSbtw, did you get clock?12:32
GeneralAntillesmikkov_, how do you use items?12:34
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mikkov_GeneralAntilles: are you talking about BaSS?12:34
GeneralAntillesStuck in the first room.12:34
GeneralAntillesGot the rung, can't use it on the door.12:34
mikkov_select item, then use d-pad center12:34
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GeneralAntillesHow do you select items?12:35
mikkov_click on the upper edge of the screen12:35
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RST38hMishaS: Yes, wonderful =)12:36
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RST38hMishaS: He insists on keeping web browser in browserd12:36
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MishaSmikkov_, that thread was about problems that fanoush had...12:37
RST38hMishaS: Although this "solution" has been proved to cause major problems (hangups, memory leakage) and does not significantly improve microb startup time12:37
* MishaS checks the thread @ itt12:37
RST38hSo I am gonna file several bugs for this12:37
mikkov_my thread is about solving them ;)12:37
MishaSmikkov_, good :)12:37
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, I don't think it's "his" decision.12:38
MishaSRST38h, i'm not sure that it's timeless who insists on that... :)12:38
MishaSRST38h, i'm quite sure that it's not him... :)12:38
MishaSas for this solution, looks like chrome -- google's browser -- is on the same path...12:39
RST38hGA: Then whoever made it has to be made aware of this12:40
RST38hMishaS: I do not care what browser is on the same path =)12:40
GeneralAntillesI doubt they're paying attention to Bugzilla.12:40
RST38hMishaS: but 30% of total RAM leaked via shared memory, hangups, and other stuff - I do care about12:40
GeneralAntillesIt seems to me that the implementation isn't necessarily flawed, it's just new and buggy.12:41
RST38hGA: I will file 3 bugs and raise ruckus12:41
GeneralAntillesTry to keep it civil.12:41
GeneralAntillesJaffa, the rest of the council is too slow on the uptake for my tastes. :P12:41
RST38hGA: it is flawed in a sense that you are keeping the main part of the browser (rendering engine), huge, potentially buggy piece of code, resident12:41
MishaSRST38h, i agree that leakages and stability are certainly of concern :)12:42
* RST38h promises not to call for torching of Nokia HQ12:42
MishaSRST38h, however i do not think that getting rid of browserd as such will help to deal with those issues :D12:42
RST38hMishaS: My guess is that you will never "fix" Gecko not to hang crash or leak12:42
GeneralAntillesI think the benefits will become more evidently when more stuff relies on browserd12:43
MishaSRST38h, _i_ certainly won't :D12:43
RST38hMishaS: So, it has to be kept in application where it is easier to kill and does not require shared memory12:43
RST38hMishaS: I meant it it in general sense :)12:43
RST38hGA: Benefits? 10-20% win in startup time12:43
RST38hGA: Measured and reluctantly accepted by timeless himself and another guy from Nokia (Roman)12:43
RST38hOk, hangups:
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MishaSmikkov_, do you keep your changes in a vcs of any sort?12:47
mikkov_MishaS: I usually try make my changes as patches to original source12:48
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mikkov_patches as distributed as part of the debian sources12:48
mikkov_or in diff.gz12:49
MishaSmikkov_, i see. did you try those on top of 0.12?12:49
RST38hMemory leakage:
mikkov_ah, for scummvm changes are totally build related, patches are from fanoush. I didn't try 0.12, but there shouldn't be any problems12:50
MishaSRST38h, it would be more helpful if you specify the exact version from "about the device'...12:50
MishaS(provided the reaction on the bug is immediate, there are no problems, but if the reaction for any reason is not immediate, then... :))12:53
GeneralAntillesRST38h, I'm going to start marking them INVALID if you don't start including the version. . . . ;)12:53
RST38hMishaS: it is the latest Diablo with the latest software update, trust me12:53
GeneralAntillesRST38h, yeah, what about in a month or so when the next SSU update comes?12:54
RST38hGA: my tablet is charging under the desk, please, save my spine =)12:54
GeneralAntillesIt wont be the latest Diablo release then12:54
GeneralAntillesor a year down the road12:54
MishaSRST38h, it's not about trust :)  it's about when people will start looking at the stuff.12:54
RST38hOk, ok, will change12:54
RST38hMishaS: oh12:54
GeneralAntillesWrite it down on a post-it note or something.12:54
RST38hChanging bugs12:54
GeneralAntillesOr just ask me whenever you file. :P12:54
infobotmethinks latest is :Sat May 12 03:07:00 2001 ??12:54
infobotsomebody said cool was there, there, everything is going to fix out12:55
GeneralAntilles~maemo-version is 4.2008.30-212:55
infobotokay, GeneralAntilles12:55
GeneralAntillesThere, RST38h. ;)12:55
MishaSGA, how to get a list of what infobot does?12:55
GeneralAntillesMishaS, that's practically never an option with IRC bots.12:56
GeneralAntillesMostly it does substitution.12:56
jottMishaS: query him with help12:56
GeneralAntilless/it/the bot/12:56
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Mostly the bot does substitution.12:56
GeneralAntillesand it has some binds for various useful stuff like12:57
infobotmethinks flashing is
infobotwell, diablo-changelog is Announcement: Version chart: Bugzilla: Wikipedia:
infobot[musthave] Maemo Mapper, FBReader, Vagalume, Canola, Numpty Physics, X-Chat, Evince, ScummVM, MyTube, MPlayer, Advanced Backlight, USBControl, Large Statusbar Clock, Transmission and much more. Also see
GeneralAntillesThen it dispenses insults12:57
GeneralAntilles~lart jott12:57
* infobot keeps mailing jott free America Online CDs until he drowns12:57
GeneralAntilles~kill GAN80012:57
* infobot shoots a charged anti-meson gun at GAN80012:57
GeneralAntilles~slap infobot12:57
* infobot slaps infobot, keep your grubby fingers to yourself!12:57
GeneralAntillesThere are probably a few more plugins, but that's what we use him for.12:58
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mikkov_Has anybody tried commenting on maemo downloads? because I think that it's broken again.13:00
jottwell just query the bot and ask him for "help" to know :)13:01
jott~ddesc hildon13:01
infobotDebian Desc Search of 'hildon' (14 of 31): libhildonwm0 ;; libhildondesktop-dev ;; hildon-fm-l10n-engb ;; libhildonwm0-dbg ;; libhildonthumbnail0-dbg ;; hildon-desktop-dev ;; libhildonmime-dev ;; dates-hildon ;; libhildonwm-dev ;; libhildonthumbnail-dev ;; tasks-hildon ;; libhildonfm2 ;; hildon-update-category-database ;; libhildonmime0.13:01
GeneralAntillesmikkov_, I just tried to add a comment to FBReader without success.13:01
jott~hex ELF13:02
infobotELF is 45 4C 4613:02
MishaSjott: thank ou13:02
infobotMishaS meant: jott: thank you13:02
GeneralAntillesmikkov_, just confirming that my comment on FBReader still isn't there, then I'll reopen13:03
mikkov_I got two emails that my apps were commented but comments didn't show up in web page13:04
jottmaybe mgedmin will find some time to make povbot usable.. would be nice to have something like ~extras to search for packages in extras :)13:04
GeneralAntillesmikkov_, might want to make a note of that in the bug.13:04
mikkov_will do13:04
* MishaS is gone for now...13:04
MishaSsee you13:04
RST38hOk, overall browserd bug report:
GeneralAntillesIf somebody has a working supybot it shouldn't be hard to add the bugzila plugin.13:05
jottwell.. povbot is a supybot..13:05
GeneralAntillesRST38h, don't file reports like that. <_<13:05
GeneralAntillesOne report per issue.13:05
povbotjott: The current (running) version of this Supybot is 0.83.1+darcs.  The newest version available online is
GeneralAntillesBugzilla isn't a good place for ultimatums13:06
RST38hGA: "keworking browserd" is a single issue13:07
RST38hand no ultimatum either13:07
* RST38h waited with this report for a month or two, too13:07
GeneralAntilles"and Better Be Keworked"13:07
GeneralAntillessounds like an ultimatum to me13:07
GeneralAntillesLast time I checked, it could be killed from xterm on a stock tablet.13:08
GeneralAntilles"be killed using 3rd party tools (CPU load applet, etc)"13:08
GeneralAntillesAnyway, whatever.13:08
* GeneralAntilles will let andre deal with it.13:09
RST38hGA: Yes, you can do ps + kill13:10
RST38hGA: But how many normal users will do that? From newbie point of view, this will reuire a reboot =913:10
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RST38h And I did spend time choosing the right word before coming up with "kework"13:11
GeneralAntillesGenerally when somebody as "and it better be . . . " there's an implied " . . . or else" after it.13:13
RST38hnot really13:14
RST38hbut in some contexts, yes13:14
GeneralAntillesYes really.13:15
GeneralAntillesYou'd be much better of with "should be" or "needs to be"13:15
RST38hdoes not sound that much better =(13:18
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RST38hGA: check it out now :)13:22
GeneralAntillesJust, fyi, bug summaries are typically sentence case rather than title case.13:25
RST38hYes, but it is a habit. I even started to capitalize words in Russian titles13:28
RST38hAlthough it is not required by the language (they use quotes)13:28
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GeneralAntillesIt's not really an issue, I'm just spastic about consistency13:30
GeneralAntillesso you'll know why I change it if I do. ;)13:30
RST38hyea, no complaint from me on this13:30
RST38hbtw, using framebuffer with VGBA speeds it up to 20-25fps, full screen =)13:41
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aladdshello :)13:56
Stskeeps <- Deblet Rescue Menu (.. yes, sorry, more deblet brag :P)13:56
aladdsanyone know why pidgin crashed on login on my 770 w/OS2007HE?13:56
aladdsis this a known problem?13:57
RST38h770 - no idea13:57
aladdsi've tried latest and the previous one13:57
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aladdsis there some way to get a log?13:58
RST38hSts: change font! =)13:58
StskeepsRST38h: text2screen13:58
aladds"Internal Error" isn't very helpful...13:58
RST38hDon't hide previous icons, display them in a row =)13:58
StskeepsRST38h: would just take hacking fb-progress really :P13:59
RST38hguess so...13:59
* RST38h has been in fb-progress tonight13:59
RST38hlooking for how they use fb013:59
StskeepsRST38h: my "idea" is having an initfs that does boot menus in similar fashion.. isn't impossible at all, but icons might be a bit big :P14:01
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aladdsdoes anyone here use OS2007HE?14:03
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crashanddieDoes anyone else get the feeling there's a whole lot of new 770 users showing up?14:08
GeneralAntillesSeem to be14:09
Stskeepscrashanddie: going down the foodchain to family members and stuff prolly14:09
Stskeepsand on ebay14:09
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CptLaptopOS2007 Helium Edition - audio output is always high pitched14:09
crashanddieI thought they had died off, like Dinosaurs, a myth only some of us had faintly heard about14:09
Stskeepscrashanddie: i've given a hacker friend a 770 in birthday present, hope that'll give a good deblet port for it :P14:10
aladdsi bought it for £40 on amazon...14:11
crashanddieStskeeps, you're going to have to diversify your array of discussion subjects if you want to remain popular :P14:11
crashanddieoh wow, £40?14:11
aladdsyep :D14:11
Stskeepscrashanddie: i talk too much about deblet, i know :P14:11
* GeneralAntilles hands Stskeeps some notecards on "Nokia not being involved in Bugzilla".14:11
aladdsit's working great except for pidgin or gaim...14:12
aladdsi even got skype to sort of work14:12
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: ten bucks it's because they have some internal bug system and they don't want to view two14:12
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, that's part of the problem, yes.14:13
GeneralAntillesHalf of poor andre's job is syncing the two by hand. <_<14:13
aladdsbonjour chat works in a sense14:13
aladdsif you start the chat from another machine (iChat on my MacBook) then it works fine, but if the 770 starts the chat it crashes when you send messages14:13
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: imho the bugzilla shouldn't have been started at all and they should have made patches to publish the external one instead14:13
Stskeepslike a OSS project14:14
Stskeepser, internal one14:14
GeneralAntillesThe long-term goal at the moment is to banish all of the open source projects from the internal tracker.14:14
Stskeeps"look, you can submit bugs here but we won't view it until the community rebels"14:14
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: a system with all components and public/private bugs/comments is a lot better14:15
Stskeepsso the bug reporting is more open as well14:15
RST38hCan't safely publish the internal bug tracker14:16
RST38hIt is bound to leak some internal details that would be deemed sensitive14:16
Stskeepsprolly, but the benefit of community bug reporting may weigh more :P14:17
RST38hProbably not a lot but enough for a genuinely interested gentlemen paid to do this kind of stuff14:17
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* Stskeeps wonders if dropbox will succumb to the demands of an armel port14:19
Stskeepspeople are very interested to get it on slugs and tablets14:19
RST38hlcuk: 20-25fps full screen, running VGBA at 720x48014:19
RST38hwhat IS dropbox?14:19
lcuknice! does arbitary scaling work in rgb then?14:19
RST38hlcuk: seems so14:19
lcukeven nicer14:19
lcukwonder why it wasnt implimented anywhere else14:19
StskeepsRST38h: RST38h
lcukhows the tearing14:20
RST38hI am now thinking of using it when in window mode as well14:20
crashanddiethis is actually pretty good looking14:20
RST38hright now it is not14:20
GeneralAntillesRST38h, this version in Extras?14:20
lcukare you not updating the fullscreen?14:20
RST38hbut I am considering getting rid of vsync and tearing to make it run faster14:20
RST38hGA: not yet14:20
RST38hGA: highly experimental but will filter into all of my emulators14:20
GeneralAntillesHehe, was just about to push me over the edge into putting the effort into getting it installed and moving some ROMs over. :P14:21
* lcuk understands experimental14:21
RST38hlcuk: I am using hw scaler when in full screen mode but not in windowed mode14:21
RST38hlcuk: as to doing 720 instead of 800, it is mainly to keep aspect right14:21
lcukgah! ive got my 810 set to stay bright when charging - however if it was powered off and its turned on with the charger in it still does screen blanking14:22
RST38hGA: Install the current version - it is not a speed demon but not bad either14:22
lcukRST38h, whats the native resolution you are drawing at?14:23
lcukcos gba isnt 720*480 is it?14:23
RST38hlcuk: 240x16014:23
crashanddielcuk, yeah I think I noticed something alike14:23
GeneralAntillesAnybody make the Wiimote stuff more straightforward yet?14:24
lcukcrashanddie, its about the 4th time ive noticed, its not a big deal, but last time i popped the charger and before i got it back in it shutdown \@/14:25
GeneralAntillesI think there's a bug for it.14:25
GeneralAntillesNot sure if it was ever confirmed.14:25
crashanddielcuk, I want to buy a cheap desktop, know where?14:26
* lcuk coughs14:26
GeneralAntillesRST38h, why "Other" and not "Games"?14:27
RST38hGA: Is VGBA still in Other?14:28
GeneralAntillesLooks like it14:28
lcukRST38h, at 480*320 (doubled your native to get required color plane resolution) and rendering fullscreen scaled bitmaps gives 43fps.  the actual do not a lot framerate is 66fps14:28
RST38hlcuk: well, I have to do quite a bit more than just blitting it ;)14:29
GeneralAntillesAs is colem14:29
crashanddielcuk, is 80 quid cheap for a desktop then?14:29
RST38hDownloads shows them in Games14:29
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lcukno i know - im merely pointing out what the display is capable of14:29
RST38hAh, I guess they are marked as Other inside .deb packages14:29
GeneralAntillesThis'd be the .deb section14:29
RST38hI clones those from fMSX .deb14:30
infobotRST38h meant: I cloned those from fMSX .deb14:30
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lcukheh, if i use 320*160 greyscale+halfres color i get 250fps!14:30
RST38hyou probably know that an LCD display normally updates at 50-120fps ;)14:30
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lcukno, im still living in a crt dominated world14:31
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* lcuk gets back to reality and carries on with stuff - ill bebasically afk for most of this weekend14:31
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mavhcdoesn't a, say, 5ms refresh mean an lcd can do 200fps?14:32
RST38hit may14:32
RST38hif you manage to update it at this rate14:32
lcuk_busyit doesnt mean you cant send data to it quicker14:32
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lcuk_busyit just means it wont respond in time14:32
RST38hbtw, 5ms LCD panel is probably bogus14:34
RST38hThey have not measured the complete change fromblack to white14:34
RST38hGA: Fixed categories, next releases will go into games14:35
JaffaGeneralAntilles: heh, I know what you mean. Busy weekend for everyone, though14:38
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GeneralAntillesDamn, RST38h, color me impressed.14:39
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GeneralAntillesMessing with VGBA14:42
GeneralAntillesIs there a keymap somewhere?14:43
RST38hYea, just read VGBA.html14:43
RST38hKeys work generally the same way everywhere14:44
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* Stskeeps ponders idly16:03
Stskeepsdid anyone notice there's an xorg server in
GeneralAntillesFremantle is moving to X.org16:04
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Stskeepsyeah, i know, just thought that the xorg wasn't published yet16:04
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: okay, either i'm seeing things or i've been running with xorg since i installed rotation support :P16:15
GeneralAntillesGotta be seeing things.16:15
GeneralAntillesThat'd totally creep me out.16:15
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Stskeepswell, , look at the version number of xorg-server, and strings of my installed Xomap says type='method_call',interface='org.x.config.input'16:18
Stskeepsit's kdrive, yes, but it's built off the source from xorg distribution16:19
Stskeepsmaybe their intention is to run some non-tinyx thing, i dunno16:20
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Stskeepsafternoon qwerty12_N80016:22
qwerty12_N800hi Stskeeps16:23
qwerty12_N800The N800 isn't actually a bad device for hacking networks with wep16:24
crashanddieqwerty12_N800, you have a kismet version, don't you?16:25
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: on holidays or field trip and hacking inet access? :P16:25
qwerty12_N800crashanddie: it isn't mine, kismet authors upstream fixed  nokia oddities and tz1 on itt made some more fixes and provided a deb. i left kismet running for 24 hours fine16:26
crashanddieqwerty12_N800, link?16:26
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: :p, i'm changing provider so...16:27
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: are you youtubeable?16:28
qwerty12_N800crashanddie: , find tz1's kismet deb and install my version of aircrack16:28
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: no idea16:28
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: if you are, - played a bit around with fb-progress and text2screen16:29
qwerty12_N800crashanddie: 24 hours of dumping packets and 1m 30secs cracking the key with aircrack16:29
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: cool, i'll hopefully be able to see :)16:29
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: looks like i am, VERY nice work :)16:31
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: it's just a shellscript really and pngs.. didn't include it in my linuxrc just yet16:31
Stskeepswtf is wrong with the debian mirrors today, my debootstrap keeps on failing16:33
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, turn it into a scrolling menu?16:33
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: hm? if i get fb-progress to paint 3 diff pngs on same screen, sure16:33
GeneralAntillesI'm just thinking it'd be easier to see the available options if they're all right in front of you.16:34
crashanddieqwerty12_N800, ncurses-base :'(16:35
qwerty12_N800crashanddie: add sdk repo and apt-get it16:35
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: yeah, i agree - for now it's just a fun prototype :)16:35
qwerty12_N800jott: my kernel package is the exact same as the nokia one but with the zimage replaced :)16:35
GeneralAntillesNokia's got some sort of recovery mode, too.16:36
qwerty12_N800jott: but i see what you mean about the software version stuff...I warned that would happen and did post an update when nokia finally released sources16:37
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jottqwerty12_N800: ah did not realize they actually released the sources.16:38
jottqwerty12_N800: have you run a diff between the versions?16:40
qwerty12_N800jott: no, but nokia included a changelog16:40
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lcuk_busyquestion: does life scroll up or down?   do i put my newest media at the bottom of a list and let it scroll upwards - like the irc channel (thats for later), or newest at the top of the page and scroll down to older?16:44
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lcuk_busylife apparantly stops heh16:51
jottlcuk_busy: depends on the content i would say :)16:52
lcuk_busyim thinking for graffiti live scrolling view16:52
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lcuk_busyim about () this close to allowing text notes (tweets ;)) and they should flow like scrollback16:52
lcuk_busyotherwise its juddery if you add a group of lines - the order of them is thrown out if shown in reverse order16:53
jottqwerty12_N800: so nothing relevant changed? :P16:54
lcuk_busyin your mind reading the latest before what was written before16:54
lcuk_busyimagine the irc chan flowing backwards16:54
jottqwerty12_N800: i gather this "WiWLAN" has to do with wimax?16:55
qwerty12_N800jott: nope :p. just some wimax driver source released. i keep shoving your rotation patch in each ssu updated kernel to keep the punters happy :)16:55
qwerty12_N800jott: yeah16:55
crashanddieqwerty12_N800, where does kismet store the network dumps?16:56
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qwerty12_N800crashanddie: /media/mmc1/kismet by default i think. I think you edit /etc/kismet/kismet.conf to change location16:58
lcuk_busy my god this makes me hungry16:58
* qwerty12_N800 should update that aircrack compile later16:58
crashanddieqwerty12_N800, can't find anything called media in conf file17:00
crashanddieqwerty12_N800, is it the "fifo" line?17:00
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qwerty12_N800crashanddie: no idea, logtemplate has a media string in it, wait, i'll grep my entire kismet folder17:01
qwerty12_N800crashanddie: just checked, only logtemplate matches17:02
qwerty12_N800     #               Uptime | System                                     Boot up17:03
qwerty12_N800     1     0 days, 22:32:20 | Linux 2.6.21-omap1        Fri Sep 12 15:26:59 200817:03
* qwerty12_N800 has to beat 22 hours on his tablet17:03
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GeneralAntillesMy 770 usually has crazy uptime17:04
GeneralAntillesSince it's tethered to the wall all the time and only leaves when I go on vacation.17:04
qwerty12_N800Heh, usually i switch off the N800 or remove the battery due to it crashing. y/day was a special exception due to kismet doing its stuff17:09
* qwerty12_N800 hates compiling for my router more than i do the initfs17:11
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: i'm making deblet more debian friendly.. with dpkg-buildpackage and all that shit. -that- is a shitty job17:11
Stskeepsbut i'm amazed with how much OS2008 stuff that's actually OSS these days17:12
qwerty12_N800:p, you finally gave in to the powers that be debian/rules etc then :p17:12
Stskeepswell i'm switching to only a tablet non-free repository on the tablet itself, and an apt repository17:13
Stskeepsand generally cleaning up the packages17:14
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: i have to run a httpd on my computer to test out binaries on the router because the dropbear implementation it comes with is retarded :p17:15
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: work so far17:16
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: sounds like you have made a lot of changes,would upgrade_deblet update my currently installed deblet?17:19
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: right now upgrade_deblet will break - when i'm done it will17:19
Stskeepsit won't trash the tablet, just not upgrade properly :P17:19
qwerty12_N800k,  thanks17:19
Stskeepsthis will make new updates to the system -much- easier, as it's very little we have to update the non-free packages17:20
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qwerty12_N800RST38h: around?17:25
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: btw, keeping framebuffer in auto slows down time to "draw" to the screen which may explain why you got faster results when using a splash17:29
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* Jaffa 's presentation template sample:
inzJaffa, does mud-builder use nerual networks for something?-)17:33
Jaffa'sposed to show community stuff17:34
GeneralAntillesThe white background on the title text is a little weird17:34
JaffaTrawling through to find a suitable image which isn't too corporate is a little tedious17:34
JaffaGeneralAntilles: it's slightly transparent, not sure I like it yet17:34
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GeneralAntillesI'd go more transparent.17:34
GeneralAntillesand bump up the top padding on both lines.17:35
GeneralAntillesMaybe bump the type size a bit.17:35
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aladdsif you use the garnet VM, where are the storage files kept?17:48
aladdsi'd like to shove it on my MMC and symlink to it (to save space on internal)17:48
qwerty12_N800~/.gvm i'd guess17:49
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lcuk_busy my god this makes me hungry18:05
qwerty12~seen brontide18:05
qwerty12~seen snowmoon-work18:05
infobotbrontide <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 23h 3m 55s ago, saying: 'engrish is always good for a laugh'.18:05
infobotsnowmoon-work <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 1h 17m 25s ago, saying: 'Doh'.18:05
GeneralAntilleslcuk_busy's uh fatty18:07
* GeneralAntilles just ate a giant burger18:07
* GeneralAntilles is not hungry.18:07
lcuk_busyi drooled18:07
lcuk_busyand i also didnt mean to repaste that18:07
lcuk_busyi alt tabbed and tried to build18:07
* lcuk_busy is really busy18:08
lcuk_busyi dont think my fingers have ever coded so much18:08
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* Jaffa remembers to download the German maps for Maps18:17
qwerty12~lart busybox for not having a groups module18:17
* infobot makes a balloon animal out of busybox for not having a groups module18:17
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Stskeepsqwerty12: it was just dsp headers missing to be able to build osso-esd, right?18:25
qwerty12Stskeeps: yep18:25
Stskeepsmy goal is being able to dpkg-buildpackage most stuff so i cant go the easy way :P18:26
* qwerty12 hates cc'ing for mips18:27
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Stskeepslet's just say i don't look forward to compiling xserver-omap ;)18:28
Stskeepsor kernel headers for that sake..18:28
qwerty12Meh, xomap doesn't take long :). I did it once to put rodrigo's xrandr patch into the xserver for diablo18:28
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* qwerty12 screams as he discovers groups is a script in this old coreutils >.<18:29
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aladdscrazy question, but how do you re-assign applications to different folders on OS2007?18:30
aladdsbecause my Extras folder seems to have everything in it :P18:31
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aladdsi'm sure i saw an option to move things before18:31
aladdsbut i don't remember where18:31
qwerty12Control Panel > Panels, Organise. For Os2008 anyway.18:31
GeneralAntillesTasks or something in Control Panel18:31
GeneralAntillesIt's near the bottom18:31
GeneralAntillesMaybe Organize18:32
GeneralAntillesI don't remember18:32
aladdsthen organise :S18:33
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aladdsthanks :)18:33
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RST38hOk, getting rid of tearsync/vsync18:50
RST38hruns faster this way and I hope most users will tolerate some tearing in games18:50
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, you're citing me in a discussion with me. :P18:59
RST38hGA: I know, but it is because you are nicely contradicting yoursel f=)19:00
RST38hAnyways, anybody knows what OMAPFB_TEARSYNC and OMAPFB_FORCE_VSYNC really do?19:00
GeneralAntillesIt's less exciting than it sounds.19:01
GeneralAntillesI'm well aware of the distinction19:01
GeneralAntillesand it's only because the community has adopted MicroB as the generic name for the browser19:01
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GeneralAntillesBecause "Mozilla based browser for maemo" just doesn't have a great ring19:02
GeneralAntillesBut MicroB is most definitely the engine19:02
GeneralAntillesIt can be the engine or the whole browser19:02
GeneralAntillesbut never the front-end.19:02
RST38hBut then the whole thing becomes even more diabolic19:02
GeneralAntillesNo, truthfully19:02
sp3000diabolic or daemonic?19:03
lcuk_busyRST38h, make it an option?19:04
aladdsoh dear19:04
aladdsnow i have a folder on my mmc called .gvm which i can't delete19:04
aladdseven as root..19:04
aladdsit says "read-only filesystem"19:05
aladdswhereas mount tells me it's rw19:05
GeneralAntillesCard is probably corrupt19:05
GeneralAntillesfsck it19:06
sp3000mount is busybox, it probably lies19:06
RST38h'Cause it means Nokia has put the whole browser into a daemon :)19:06
RST38hlcuk: that is my suggestion19:06
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RST38h...and expects it to work whichnobody has expected from web browsers for years now19:06
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qwerty12RST38h: Voted on 3705. I'm pretty indifferent on the other bugs.19:07
sp3000~ $ cat /proc/mounts19:07
sp3000rootfs / rootfs rw 0 019:07
sp3000~ $ mount19:07
sp3000rootfs on / type rootfs (rw)19:07
qwerty12apt-get install mount-full (in extras I think)19:07
qwerty12then you can have the proper mount by running mount.full19:07
* sp3000 can't keep track of lines, pastes random things19:08
RST38hqwerty: Other bugs are the basis for 370519:08
GeneralAntillesRST38h, browser is not a daemon. <_<19:08
RST38hGA: In diablo, it is19:08
aladdsoh, i rebooted and it's deleted now19:09
GeneralAntillesNo, the application is not a daemon.19:09
aladdsi think i'll just use the internal store :P19:09
GeneralAntillesps ax | grep browser19:09
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RST38hGA: browser = page loader+ renderer + ks19:09
RST38hGA: all three are in browserd19:09
sp3000aladds: ga is probably right though, the card would tend to end up ro when something gits fs corruption19:10
infobotsp3000 meant: aladds: ga is probably right though, the card would tend to end up ro when something hits fs corruption19:10
sp3000die bot die19:10
GeneralAntillesro is 99% certain card corruption19:10
* qwerty12 hopes BBC stream the real hustle19:10
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qwerty12RST38h: I don't use livejournal, but I guess the other bug has meaning19:12
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RST38hqwerty: I don't think it is limited to lj19:15
RST38hlooks like some css or js bug19:15
qwerty12God knows what it is... Talking about the browser, has anyone tried compiling the MicroB svn?19:17
GeneralAntillesNot lately19:17
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GeneralAntillesNot since pre-30-219:17
qwerty12Hmm, I want to try it but at the same time, I'm reluctant. Last time, I had a ~5 hour compile and packages that killed browserd :/19:18
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GeneralAntillesDo it again!19:18
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qwerty12Maybe after taking prozac :P19:19
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* Jaffa tries to arrange arrive-in-Berlin drinks. Baloo looks like a likely candidate atm ;-)19:20
RST38hYes, please, kill browserd again, now in especially perverse manner19:22
RST38hWhile we watch.19:22
sp3000lj isn't hurting me19:24
sp3000well, me, maybe, browser*, no19:24
GeneralAntillesI was gonna say. . . .19:25
GeneralAntilleslj _always_ hurts me.19:25
GeneralAntillesRST38h, did you ever CC Eero on the memory consumption bug?19:25
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sp3000even fitwidth didn't break it19:28
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qwerty12Anyone here has experience with dropbear?19:28
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GeneralAntillesBack in the 770 days.19:29
qwerty12I need to recompile it with scp & sftp support but the config.h is throwing me off :/19:30
RST38hGA: Not yet, just filed a bug19:30
RST38hGA: Hopefully he sees it19:30
GeneralAntillesJust drop his name in the cc field.19:31
RST38htimeless says it comes from shared memory chunks being left in memory but blaims it on SYSV SHM API19:31
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GeneralAntillesjust 'eero' should do it.19:32
RST38hno exact match.19:32
GeneralAntillesI added him. ;)19:33
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oilinki3ukmp is not for os2008?19:59
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Jaffaoilinki3: use MediaBox instead19:59
Stskeepsqwerty13: something you'd prolly enjoy.. just coded ability to dl a first stage debootstrap tar.gz  :P20:00
oilinki3Jaffa: same thing with different name?20:00
Jaffaoilinki3: No, similar thing, but better and under active development20:00
oilinki3Jaffa: let me check it out. this is for wife who likes the scrolling albumlist20:00
qwerty13Stskeeps: Hehe, maybe I won't have to install nit-env-gnome-basic a 1000 times :P20:01
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Stskeepsqwerty13: didn't say anything about apt ;)20:01
Stskeepsi guess it would be possible to make a apt-get -d thing20:01
Stskeepsthat simply injects it into var/cache/apt20:01
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* qwerty13 hopes this new dropbear binary runs on my router. I'm actually finding normal CC'ing easier than scratchbox. 20:02
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AFBN810hey wouldn't it possible using hildon ui tools to redesign the layout of a theme to make it look good rotated20:19
GAN800It's not the theme20:20
GAN800It's the engine.20:20
AFBN810ok I wasn't sure I was reading that the theme layout (not the look of it but the placement of things would be changed)20:21
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Stskeeps <- woo21:05
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GAN800The spacebar cracks me up21:07
cmathesontell me if this isn't the appropriate place to ask this, but i haven't been able to update/install anything on my n800 lately.  i'm missing /var/lib/apt/ (i have a lists.old), and i'm not sure how to fix that21:07
StskeepsGAN800: weirdest bug ever21:08
GAN800It slays me, though.21:09
RST38hcmatheson: why not add repositories from scratch using app manager?21:10
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RST38hWhich spacebar bug?21:10
cmathesonRST38h: hmm, i've tried adding repos, but it fails--should that regenerate them?21:10
StskeepsRST38h: look at photo21:10
RST38hcmatheson: second guess: cp lists.old lists.new21:11
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cmathesonRST38h: that's what i was thinking too, but i can't figure out how to become root (it seems fairly involved, from what i was able to glean from the wiki)21:11
RST38hstskeeps: I think it is trying to tell you something21:11
RST38hstskeeps: Maybe it wants blood... or animal guts as a sacrifice...21:11
RST38hcmatheson: have you got sshd installed?21:12
infobothmm... root-access is
cmathesonRST38h: no :(, i was hoping to install that when i noticed that i can't install anything21:12
GAN800How in the world is that involved?21:12
RST38hGA: he can't install stuff21:12
RST38hotherwise it would be easier21:12
JaffaR&D mode is the only realistic way, perhaps21:13
RST38hcmatheson: worst case scenario: you have to reflash21:15
cmathesonRST38h: ok, i think i'll just do that, thanks for the help21:17
RST38hsorry for not being able to figure out something more graceful21:17
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cmathesonthat's cool, reflashing isn't a big deal--i just thought i'd check if there was another way21:19
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RST38h"As you can see in the "Blade" vehicle above, efficiency is improved with the wind turbine that designer Ying Hui Choo added to charge an on-board electric battery."21:35
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RST38hIs lack of clue necessary for a designer?21:37
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derfThe engine's conversion efficiency might just be really bad.21:38
RST38hyes, but how would a wind turbine help? =)21:39
jrayhawkMaybe it's expected that you leave it lying around some Dutch hills overnight21:39
RST38hyea, in blades-up position =)21:39
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lcuk_busycould be fart powered21:39
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Stskeepsdo i remember wrong or is there something that takes a dpkg-buildpackage'able directory and gets the build dependancies through apt? (apt-get build-dep doesn't count. it needs an existing .dsc)22:27
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JaffaStskeeps: is where I put a reference to dpkg-checkdeps22:31
Stskeepsexcellent :)22:35
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derfOh, that's fantastic.22:48
derfThe following line segfaults with -Os:22:48
derf    if(_text[i]>=0x80&&_text[i]<0xA0)return 0;22:48
derfIf I replace them with:22:48
derf    if(_text[i]>=0x80){22:49
derf      if(_text[i]<0xA0){22:49
derf        return 0;22:49
derf      }22:49
derf    }22:49
derfIt works fine.22:49
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derfArm only, works fine on x86.22:50
JaffaGCC in buggy compiler shocker.22:50
derfI'm sure it's fixed in one of the 8 versions of gcc released after the one we have in scratchbox.22:51
jottespecially gcc 3.4.422:51
timelyxi'm shocked, really shocked i tell ya22:51
jottinternal compiler errors are a daily joy with the sbox gcc 3.4.4 too...22:53
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derfFor convenience, I also get different behavior if I pass -g or not.22:53
jottit's relatively stable with -O0 :)22:54
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derfIt's relatively stable if I don't run it, too.22:55
jotteven more then.22:55
derfAnd about as useful.22:55
jotteven more then.22:55
ShadowJKand remember, "Just because it's valid C doesn't mean gcc will compile it", gcc developer quoted from memory :)22:58
derfI mean, that is not a complicatd construct.22:58
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timelyxShadowJK: nice22:59
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lcuk_busyderf, i gather it works fine when you run without optimizations23:02
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derflcuk_busy: Yes.23:05
derfI give up.23:05
derfIf I add a printf in one function, it changes a result that gets computed earlier in a completely different function.23:05
lcuk_busyjust leave it in broken lines - its an odd edge case relating to optimization23:06
derflcuk_busy: If that was the _only_ segfault I was getting, I would.23:06
derfI can't even diagnose the next one.23:06
t_s_osomething tells me that nokia should have just taken one of their phones, slapped a display across its whole front and gotten opera mini running on it. at least then we would not have the numbers that want the tablet to be a "phone"...23:06
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mavhcit's got a speaker and a microphone and a radio, it is a phone23:07
derfI wonder how hard it would be to compile gcc 4.3.2 in sb.23:07
jottderf: there is a ready package.23:08
timelyxderf: compiler tool chain upgrades are a real nightmare23:08
derfjott: Genius.23:08
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derftimelyx: As opposed to crashes that vanish when I try to debug them?23:08
lcuk_busyquantum effects - the lhc has gone live23:09
derfjott: I don't care about i386.23:09
jott(not sure if it's 4.3.2 but it's a 4.x)23:09
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timelyxderf: um23:09
* timelyx ponders23:09
jottderf: it's cross-compiling :)23:09
timelyxthe browser/flash team have hit a bunch of gcc induced bugs23:09
jottderf: your sbox gcc is x86.23:09
timelyxi'd rather upgrade23:09
timelyxbut i do sympathize w/ the people who chose not to23:09
jott(thus those packages have to be installed on your host)23:10
timelyxit isn't quite "the devil you do know is better than the devil you don't"23:10
derfI mean, I understand the ARM side gets a lot less use than x86, but this is fairly ridiculous.23:10
timelyxbut in practice any change incurs risk23:10
timelyxand nokia is fairly risk averse :)23:10
lcuk_busyderf, simpler - try an alternative optimization type ;)23:10
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lcuk_busyi use O323:10
timelyxplease don23:11
timelyxt :)23:11
jottor manually pick the optimization flags until it fails :)23:11
timelyxO3 introduces things which violate contracts23:11
timelyxlike alignment rules23:11
timelyxgcc knowingly generates bad code23:11
timelyxand doesn't seem to care23:11
lcuk_busyit seems to work for me :)23:11
timelyx(anyone interested in arguing is welcome to volunteer to fix the bug, i'll gladly share)23:11
* lcuk_busy doesnt have random odd crashes unless he explicitely codes them in23:11
lcuk_busyim good at making spectacular crashes23:12
timelyxlcuk_busy: you also must have a small app23:12
lcuk_busybut you lot don't see most of them ;)23:12
timelyxwe have a number of really sucky gcc induced crashes23:12
derfIt now crashes under: -Os, -O1, -O2, -O3, and without optimization.23:12
lcuk_busytimelyx, then you have other problems23:12
derfNote that it behaves differently under several of them.23:12
lcuk_busyjust reboot your machine and try agian23:12
jottderf: unoptimize your code *scnr*23:12
derfjott: I would if I had _any_ idea where the problem was!23:13
jottgcc 3.4.4 seems to me the problem :(23:13
derfBut if I add a printf before the place it crashes, it gets a different value somewhere earlier and then doesn't take that code path.23:13
derfAnd crashes somewhere else.23:13
jottderf: just install the cs2007q3 toolchain and see if it works.23:13
lcuk_busyyou sound like you have screwed your stack up23:13
derflcuk_busy: I wouldn't doubt it.23:14
derfI am, however, not the one managing the stack.23:14
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derfThat is gcc's job.23:14
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derfI mean, unlike the other one, this could in theory be an actual bug. But if I can't find it, that doesn't do me any good.23:15
lcuk_busyi only get wierd shit like this when i dont do a clean clean; make after ive been screwing with the structs23:15
derflcuk_busy: Makefile rebuilds _everything_ if I change the Makefile.23:15
derfWhich I've been doing repeatedly to change the optimization flags.23:16
lcuk_busyahhhh (can you share the method you are using to do that, it saves me a cmd)23:16
derf# Make everything depend on changes in the Makefile23:17
derf${ALL_ASM} ${ALL_OBJS} ${ALL_DEPS} ${ALL_TARGETS} : Makefile23:17
lcuk_busycool, thanks23:18
timelyxlcuk_busy: ping23:21
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timelyxdo you have sp-* on your device?23:21
timelyxopen xterm, type sp-<tab> :)23:21
timelyxthere are something like 20 or so sp-/sp_ apps23:22
lcuk_busyno, what are they23:22
* qwerty12-N800 only has sp-oops-extract23:22
timelyxi'm looking for a couple of them but don't remember their names23:22
timelyxum, can you apt-cache search for the others? :)23:22
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lcuk_busytimelyx, ive only got dsp* and xsp* stuff, what are they and why do i need to search for em?23:24
qwerty12-N800timeless: sure, a sec23:24
timelyxlcuk_busy: well, i only need one person, you were alive :)23:25
timelyxbut they're helpful apps :)23:25
lcuk_busyill bblater on23:26
qwerty12-N800pastebin not loading...23:26 :)23:26
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timelyxthanks, i was looking for sp-mem* and sp-smaps*23:29
timelyxif you care about stuff, i'd suggest you grab em all :)23:29
timelyxwould someone please rekill
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* timelyx sighs23:31
qwerty12-N800sorry, I voted. but how did RST38h run microb w/out browserd?23:32
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timelyxyou just kill -9 it23:33
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timelyxafaik he meant w/o it being running not w/o using it23:35
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timelyxthe browser-ui we ship doesn't support in process browser23:35
timelyxand since it's closed source, there's not much of a choice :)23:35
timelyxJaffa/GeneralAntilles: ping23:38
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RST38hqwerty: I killed browserd and started microb23:43
RST38hqwerty: So it had to start browserd and then itself23:43
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RST38hqwerty: I killed browserd and started microb23:44
timelyxRST38h: to be clear, you aren't right?23:44
RST38hqwerty: So it had to start browserd and then itself23:44
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RST38hqwerty: That took 2 extra seconds!23:44
RST38htimelyx: I am23:44
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timelyxRST38h: get this clear now. i will disable your account and my own if you reopen this bug again23:44
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timelyxyou're violating the trust that a bug system is supposed to engender23:45
Fatalfor the rest of us, what's wrong with the bug linked above?23:45
qwerty12_N800RST38h: interesting :), on my device, I have to start browserd manually if i killed it23:45
timelyxand you're pissing off one of the very few engineers who is trying to increase interaction23:45
RST38htimelyx: Mmmm... I will leave your ultimatum without comment but WILL make a mental note about you. Thanks.23:46
RST38hqwerty: There are two copies23:46
RST38hqwerty: The little 2MB one you do not kill - it is responsible for restarting the large 11MB copy23:46
Fataltimelyx: is it the reason that it's a "collection" report, that it summarizes and extends on existing bugs?23:46
timelyxFatal: reload.23:46
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Fatalwill do23:47
qwerty12_N800RST38h: I see23:47
timelyxany additional comments and i'll just ban myself from this irc channel and the bug system23:47
timelyxand probably find a new job23:47
timelyxi don't need this aggravation23:47
timelyxi hear that opensolaris is welcoming23:48
Fatalright, valid points, albeit a bit temperd, but I see where you're coming from23:48
timelyxsorry you guys pissed me off on my day of rest23:48
mavhcwhy does it take 2MBs of code to start some more code?23:48
timelyxmavhc: eh?23:48
timelyxthere are two parts to the daemon23:48
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timelyxone is responsible for creating daemons for individual clients23:49
timelyxthere are actually multiple clients on the device23:49
timelyxthe tablet-tutorial iirc is a client23:49
qwerty12_N800yeah, it uses the flash plugin from the browser23:49
Fataltimelyx: I doubt you have the best of positions hanging in the middle (and no, I haven't read up on current affairs). You have my sympathies, how little they may mean.23:49
timelyxFatal: for reference, 139 iirc is my sign off from maemo-devel23:50
timelyxwell really23:50
timelyxanyway, the tiny daemon was another design choice23:51
timelyxit doesn't cost much and it's probably mirrored after the design used by maemo-launcher23:51
timelyxwhich people are willing to tolerate23:51
timelyxfwiw, in looking around, QTopia has a similar daemon approach23:51
timelyxwhere it basically preforks23:51
timelyxit's a standard technique23:51
timelyxand the state of browsers is that you will want the browser out of the ui process23:52
timelyxwe were actually late to that party23:52
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RST38hThis technique causes problems.23:52
timelyxRST38h: shut up23:52
RST38hNobody really cares how well it works in Chrome, QTopia, or any other browser.23:52
RST38hIt causes problems in Maemo.23:53
timelyxQSSL (QNX, voyager_server/opera_server/mozilla_server) was there in 2000 or earlier23:53
timelyxand their impl just worked23:53
timelyxyou never heard complaints23:53
ssvbRST38h: why do you think that it causes problems?23:53
timelyxexcept for maybe that you could only use one engine at a time23:53
timelyxRST38h: if the OS and browser ui don't let you do something about busy apps23:54
timelyxthen those are bugs23:54
RST38hssvv: It i all described in
timelyxand they need to be fixed <period>23:54
Fataltimelyx: again, my deepest sympathies. It's hard enough to justify design/process desicions in a closed source enviroment with sales and support personell breathing down your neck, and in a semi open community such as this, I bet it attracts alot of flaming and useless repetivness.23:54
RST38hssvv: A bug that timelyx labeled as invalid and told me to shut up23:54
timelyxFatal: i've dealt w/ sales23:54
timelyxthey're much friendlier23:55
timelyxgive me sales any day23:55
ssvbRST38h: but this bugreport does indeed look invalid...23:55
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FatalI wouldn't wish the sales dept at my job on anyone :)23:55
RST38hssvb: It links to two other bug reports, do check those23:55
RST38hssvb: And one of the commenters links to 3 other bug reports23:55
timelyxFatal: yeah, i know the feeling23:56
ssvbRST38h: the other bugs do not seem related to this client/server daemon design23:56
RST38hssvb: they in fact are23:56
RST38hssvb: They mention problems restarting browserd when it accidentally dies23:57
ssvbRST38h: so what?23:57
RST38hssvb: Problems killing browserd when it hangs up. Problems losing memory shared between server and clients23:57
RST38hssvb: If not for the current client/server design, these problems would not be there23:58
JaffaRST38h: timelyx makes a valid point there, though: a problem restarting browserd doesn't indicate a fundamental design flaw; it indicates a bug.23:58
RST38hJaffa: fundamental design flaw is a bit different here23:58
RST38hJaffa: Basically, if you have got something as large, resource hungry, and crash prone as a web browser, you do not make it a background process23:59
ssvbRST38h: keeping some unreliable part of program in an easily killable/restartable separate process is a design that improves reliability23:59
JaffaNow, I'm not sure *I'd've* designed it like this, or that this is the ideal solution to platform UI specification requirement for <5s load and other things; but it is a way of solving it, and therefore a valid design in that sense.23:59

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