| lcuk | just because im not writing in c++ doesnt mean i cant take advantage of things :) | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| lcuk | whats broke? | 00:00 |
| lbt | touch | 00:00 |
| lbt | it's kinda broke | 00:00 |
| lbt | it clicks on touch | 00:00 |
| jott | lbt: messed with /etc/ts.conf by any chance? :) | 00:00 |
| lbt | ah | 00:00 |
| lbt | erm | 00:00 |
| lbt | <blush> | 00:00 |
| * lbt goes away | 00:00 | |
| RST38h | back | 00:01 |
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| lcuk | pmsl | 00:01 |
| lbt | should there be a ts.conf normally? | 00:04 |
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| TPC | I have a problem running netcat in xterm on the N800 | 00:04 |
| TPC | if I listen on the N800 I can connect to my desktop computer with it | 00:04 |
| TPC | but I can't connect to my desktop computer (or any computer on the internet) from the pda, the connection just ends immediately, before any data is transfered | 00:05 |
| TPC | any idea what could be wrong? | 00:05 |
| lbt | what OS? firewall? iptables? | 00:05 |
| TPC | debian linux on the desktop, I have a iptables firewall normally but disabled it while debugging | 00:06 |
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| TPC | but my desktop box isn't the problem, the same thing happens when connecting to, say, google.com port 80 | 00:06 |
| TPC | the web browser can connect to google just fine | 00:06 |
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| TPC | what I'm trying to do is stream a movie using netcat to mplayer on the pda, this works fine when doing say "nc -l -p 1234 | mplayer -cache 2048 -" on the pda and "nc pda_ip 1234 < filename.avi" o the desktop box | 00:07 |
| TPC | but I want to initiate the connection from the N800, so I don't have to walk over to my computer to initiate the streaming | 00:08 |
| TPC | and it just doesn't work | 00:08 |
| lbt | ssh <grin> | 00:09 |
| TPC | I suppose that would work, but I still want to know whats wrong :P | 00:09 |
| ToyKeeper | lbt: Increasing the font size appears to work in the main app area, but doesn't change much elsewhere... got a couple shots to show what changes. | 00:10 |
| lbt | so what are you trying to do/run? | 00:10 |
| ToyKeeper | http://toykeeper.net/tmp/maemo-shopper-14pt.png | 00:10 |
| ToyKeeper | http://toykeeper.net/tmp/maemo-shopper-36pt.png | 00:10 |
| lbt | ToyKeeper: nice start :) | 00:10 |
| lbt | I seem to have buggered my NIT by playing with tslib and screwing /etc/ts.conf | 00:11 |
| lbt | TPC: I meant what command are you using? | 00:11 |
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| TPC | nc desktop_ip 1234 | 00:12 |
| lbt | ToyKeeper: frankly, I want it to be sexier | 00:12 |
| jott | lbt: my ts.conf just contains module pressure and module linear. but when i played around with tslib and modified ts.conf it also broke ts input under hildon at one point :) | 00:12 |
| lbt | it's a bit boring (and yes, I know it's a shopping list!!!) | 00:12 |
| TPC | if I run in verbose mode it doesn't give an error, just ends immediately saying 0 byte sent, 0 bytes recieved | 00:13 |
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| TPC | and the netcat on the desktop computer never gets the connection | 00:13 |
| lbt | jott: I appear to have removed mine | 00:13 |
| TPC | same thing happens if I do, say, nc google.com 80 | 00:13 |
| jott | lbt: maybe add those two lines and see if it helps? | 00:13 |
| lbt | I thought I was playing in initfs | 00:14 |
| lbt | am doing ta | 00:14 |
| TPC | I think it may just be a bug in the maemo build of netcat | 00:14 |
| lbt | jott: Thanks :) | 00:15 |
| lbt | TPC - sounds like it. I wonder if netcat is trying to connect to a terminal or something? | 00:15 |
| lbt | should work in an xterm... | 00:15 |
| lbt | hmm | 00:15 |
| TPC | hm.. I wonder if the one from debians arm distribution would work | 00:16 |
| lbt | what about sshing into the tablet from the PC | 00:16 |
| jott | lbt: ah nice. did it work? | 00:16 |
| lbt | yes that got my menus back | 00:16 |
| lcuk | jott :) you saved the world again | 00:16 |
| TPC | lbt, that works fine | 00:16 |
| lbt | then running nc | 00:16 |
| TPC | oh | 00:17 |
| lbt | ie ssh to tablet and run nc google.com 80 | 00:17 |
| TPC | I'll try | 00:17 |
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| TPC | note, same thing | 00:17 |
| TPC | nope | 00:17 |
| lbt | nc --help | 00:17 |
| lbt | it may be an old version | 00:17 |
| lbt | also nc -t ? | 00:18 |
| lbt | so nc -t google.com 80 | 00:18 |
| TPC | exactly the same | 00:18 |
| TPC | can I paste 4 lines in here? | 00:18 |
| lbt | RST38h: does! | 00:19 |
| TPC | for version it says gnu netcat 0.7.1 | 00:19 |
| TPC | when downloading binaries from debians arm distribution should use download from the arm or armel distro? | 00:20 |
| lbt | neither | 00:20 |
| lbt | maemo | 00:20 |
| TPC | they don't have a maemo distro | 00:20 |
| lbt | that may be the problem... | 00:20 |
| lbt | maemo isn't debian... | 00:20 |
| TPC | I know, but some of the binaries are compatible | 00:20 |
| TPC | I didn't get the current copy of netcat from there | 00:20 |
| lbt | it has different build deps | 00:20 |
| TPC | yes, I'll extract the deb on my desktop and copy over the files | 00:21 |
| TPC | I did it for some other package and it worked fine | 00:21 |
| lbt | it's trivial to apt-get source netcat | 00:21 |
| lbt | and then run debian/rules binary | 00:21 |
| lbt | inside scratchbox | 00:21 |
| lbt | (although, granted, setting it up isn't trivial) | 00:22 |
| TPC | I don't have scratchbox, would be a bit of a pain for me to set up since I run a 64 bit os | 00:22 |
| TPC | would have to set up a 32 bit chroot or something | 00:22 |
| lbt | you chinook? | 00:22 |
| lbt | or diablo? | 00:22 |
| TPC | diablo | 00:22 |
| trenka | diablo? | 00:23 |
| lbt | ah, hibernation over trenka? | 00:23 |
| TPC | hm.. that seems to work | 00:24 |
| trenka | no trenka around | 00:24 |
| TPC | downloaded this: http://ftp.se.debian.org/debian/pool/main/n/netcat-openbsd/netcat-openbsd_1.89-3_armel.deb | 00:25 |
| lbt | TPC: I just built it for you too | 00:25 |
| lbt | want a netcat-traditional_1.10-38_armel.deb | 00:25 |
| TPC | sure, I guess | 00:25 |
| lbt | let me at least install/test first | 00:25 |
| lbt | to make sure it works!! | 00:26 |
| trenka | any like kernel developer around? | 00:26 |
| TPC | ok | 00:26 |
| RST38h | jott: still here? | 00:26 |
| lbt | TPC: yep, works fine | 00:26 |
| trenka | I'm not approved to get maemo sammit | 00:26 |
| TPC | ok :) | 00:27 |
| lbt | email? | 00:27 |
| TPC | andreas@tpwch.com | 00:27 |
| TPC | maybe you should see if you can use it to replace the ones in the extras repo | 00:27 |
| TPC | as that one seems broken | 00:27 |
| ToyKeeper | Hmm, I hadn't tried a shopping list on my todo list app before. It seems to work fine except for being designed for vim users. | 00:27 |
| lbt | on its way TPC | 00:28 |
| TPC | got it, installing now | 00:29 |
| lbt | ToyKeeper: which todo list is that? | 00:29 |
| TPC | lbt, yep, it works | 00:30 |
| lbt | cool :) | 00:30 |
| TPC | thanks | 00:30 |
| TPC | so there are three different implementations of netcat, gnu, traditional, and openbsd | 00:30 |
| ToyKeeper | lbt: TKDO ( http://toykeeper.net/programs/tkdo/ ) ... I haven't packaged it for maemo yet. | 00:30 |
| TPC | interesting | 00:30 |
| ToyKeeper | It works; I just haven't fixed up some details and added packaging. http://toykeeper.net/tmp/maemo-tkdo-shopping.png | 00:31 |
| jott | RST38h: yes. | 00:31 |
| lbt | I just did: apt-get source netcat; dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b | 00:31 |
| lbt | so whatever came down... | 00:31 |
| lbt | <innocent>do you have a version that works with emacs org-mode files? | 00:32 |
| RST38h | jott: sorry, my computer keeps crashin | 00:33 |
| RST38h | Anyway here is what I have for the update struct | 00:33 |
| RST38h | FBUpdate.x = 0; | 00:33 |
| RST38h | FBUpdate.y = 0; | 00:33 |
| RST38h | FBUpdate.width = FBImg.W; | 00:33 |
| RST38h | FBUpdate.height = FBImg.H; | 00:33 |
| RST38h | FBUpdate.format = OMAPFB_COLOR_RGB565 | 00:33 |
| RST38h | | OMAPFB_FORMAT_FLAG_TEARSYNC | 00:33 |
| RST38h | | OMAPFB_FORMAT_FLAG_FORCE_VSYNC; | 00:33 |
| jott | you need to set the output rect too i would say. | 00:34 |
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| jott | out_* | 00:34 |
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| RST38h | oh | 00:36 |
| TPC | this is nice, netcat and mplayer makes a nice combo | 00:36 |
| RST38h | can I set different w/h? | 00:37 |
| lbt | TPC - wiki entry? | 00:37 |
| jott | RST38h: yes. it then uses the hw scaling. | 00:37 |
| TPC | now I don't have to copy over video files to the sd card when watching on the N800 within range of my wifi | 00:37 |
| TPC | now to figure out how to get mencoder to output to a pipe | 00:37 |
| TPC | so I don't have to wait for encoding and can just start watching right away :) | 00:37 |
| TPC | lbt, good idea | 00:37 |
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| RST38h | jott: wow | 00:38 |
| RST38h | gonna try that =) | 00:38 |
| RST38h | are there predefined scaling factors or any factor will work? | 00:39 |
| jott | RST38h: any factor should do. | 00:39 |
| jott | it's really just input rect -> output rect :) | 00:39 |
| RST38h | IT WORKS | 00:41 |
| jott | sweet :) | 00:41 |
| RST38h | WONDERFUL | 00:41 |
| lbt | RST38h: whacha working on? | 00:41 |
| RST38h | GBA emulator | 00:42 |
| lbt | OK :) | 00:42 |
| lbt | I just want to draw simple things on the fb from initfs | 00:43 |
| lbt | one day... | 00:43 |
| moontiger | lbt: hehehe i hear ya | 00:43 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: did you see fb-progress source? | 00:45 |
| lcuk | jott, i thought scaling only applied for yuv mode, yes rgb can have pixeldoubling, but i was sure it didnt work - i think its why mplayer remains as it is | 00:45 |
| jott | lcuk: hmm.. sure? | 00:45 |
| lcuk | well all the attempts at rgb scaling have been to get pixeldoubling working | 00:45 |
| jott | i thought it's more a limitation on the X11 side. | 00:45 |
| lcuk | no, if you have the data you should be able to push it over and have the hardware scale it | 00:46 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: no, not yet - playing with tslib still (again) | 00:46 |
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| lcuk | you tell it a region because thats all you want to update | 00:46 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/osso-af-utils/src/ | 00:46 |
| lbt | I'll make a note though - ta | 00:46 |
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| jott | was some time ago i did the fb stuff, so you might be right. | 00:46 |
| jott | best bet to just try it :) | 00:46 |
| lcuk | jott, if it was so simple to do arbitary scaling everyone would have it .. | 00:46 |
| RST38h | I will try in a moment | 00:47 |
| jott | everyone as in,..... ?! | 00:47 |
| lcuk | good thanks rst | 00:47 |
| lcuk | you are in a position right now :) | 00:47 |
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| jott | there is nearly no one using the fb directly :) | 00:47 |
| jott | mplayer probably the only one ..hehe | 00:47 |
| lcuk | mplayer does, sdl does | 00:48 |
| jott | (as in omapfb, not linux fb) | 00:48 |
| jott | sdl? no.. | 00:48 |
| lcuk | yes | 00:48 |
| RST38h | yea, the missionary position... | 00:48 |
| mikma | how can i give '-100' value with gconftool for /apps/osso/sound/master_volume ? | 00:48 |
| jott | sdl has an omapfb backend? | 00:48 |
| lcuk | yes | 00:48 |
| jott | since when? | 00:48 |
| mikma | i've tried pretty much all i know but no luck | 00:48 |
| jott | and where? | 00:48 |
| lcuk | mmm | 00:48 |
| lcuk | hang on it calls X11_MITSHMUpdate(current_video,1,&rect); which calls it - it should have been possible to natively support arbitary res still | 00:49 |
| jott | yeah thats completely different stuff :) | 00:50 |
| lcuk | i said yes because i was following down sometime in the past | 00:50 |
| lcuk | yer i realise no | 00:50 |
| lcuk | w | 00:50 |
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| jott | well RST38h can tell us in moment. would be nice to know for sure :) | 00:50 |
| RST38bis | fuck, battery just ran out | 00:50 |
| jott | :( | 00:50 |
| RST38bis | np, rebooting from pwr outlet | 00:51 |
| jott | always sucks to get a black screen when you are in the middle of something.. | 00:52 |
| lcuk | you have that moment of panic "did i make a whoopsie" | 00:52 |
| RST38bis | x3 seems to work fine | 00:53 |
| RST38bis | anyone wants me to try something different? | 00:53 |
| TPC | whoo, it works | 00:53 |
| TPC | encoding to good quality and streaming on the fly to mplayer on n800 | 00:53 |
| jott | RST38h: try full 800x480? :) | 00:54 |
| lbt | TPC :) | 00:54 |
| RST38bis | i am doing just that | 00:54 |
| lbt | TPC now integrate it into MythTV... | 00:54 |
| lbt | (shouldn't be that hard actually) | 00:54 |
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| lcuk | slashdot/sourceforge down :( | 01:04 |
| melmoth | OMG they killed the interoueb ! | 01:06 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: good riddance.. with those ads sf deserved it | 01:06 |
| lcuk | they did when i need a tarball from there | 01:06 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 01:06 |
| lcuk | i agree sts | 01:07 |
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| jott | lcuk: there are plenty of mirrors for the files :) | 01:09 |
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| lcuk | gulp, i got the one i needed and now im gonna walk away | 01:10 |
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| fredyrivera | hello | 01:29 |
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| fredyrivera | I ask a question about touch screen? | 01:29 |
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| fredyrivera | The touch screen of my n810 has suffered damage, someone knows a way to turn off the touch screen and work only with the sliding keyboard? | 01:31 |
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| lcuk | fredyrivera, someone earlier had a problem where touchscreen was disabled for him, i gather its damaged and always pressed on something? | 01:34 |
| lcuk | or is this possibly a software symptom | 01:35 |
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| fredyrivera | yes, my ts is always clicking, so I wish disable | 01:36 |
| lcuk | lbt, was your screen completely disabbled by your vandalism? | 01:37 |
| lcuk | fredyrivera, what actually happened? | 01:37 |
| TPC | lbt, any others interested: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=223452#post223452 | 01:38 |
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| lcuk | and can you not just get a warranty replacement? | 01:38 |
| fredyrivera | I live in colombia and the device was buy in the U.S., Nokia has no repair service in colombia. | 01:41 |
| lcuk | if you have a us receipt you could at least contact nokia and see what they say about posting it | 01:42 |
| fredyrivera | I think if I send the parts, I could change it, but it's hard to sell such parts | 01:42 |
| fredyrivera | would pay the repair, but who will not be repaired | 01:44 |
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| fredyrivera | for now, I wish to disable the TS to work as my n810 Gps, as I do that? | 01:46 |
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| lcuk | just scrollin back now to see how he fixed his problem | 01:47 |
| lcuk | perhaps you could attempt to unfix his problam and stop screen working | 01:47 |
| lcuk | ahh, it might not work, but the user had removed a file "/etc/ts.conf" and it broke his tablet and nothing would click properly | 01:49 |
| fredyrivera | I do not want to turn off the screen, only the TS, I can also operate the device by ssh or x11vnc, but it is annoying that always click | 01:49 |
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| fredyrivera | mmm, I was very happy with my n810, mapping colombia for openstreetmap.org, but an excursion was beating and damage: ( | 01:52 |
| lcuk | :( thats not good | 01:53 |
| * sp3000 suspects mangling pointercal wouldn't help | 01:53 | |
| Chani | my n810's networkmanager has lost itself twice today. first it was connecting forever, now it's searching forever. how do I restart it without rebooting? | 01:53 |
| sp3000 | Chani: try going into offline mode? (short powerbutton press -> ...) | 01:54 |
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| Chani | sp3000: no luck | 01:54 |
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| Chani | it still lists the networks from school, and I'm at home, and it never finishes searching | 01:55 |
| RST38bis | ok, framerates are way up with fb0 | 01:55 |
| Chani | also, the web browser has been going crazy a lot since I upgraded | 01:55 |
| sp3000 | hm, like you exit the scanning dialog and come back and it shows wrong networks? | 01:55 |
| RST38bis | getting 20-25fps in vgba | 01:56 |
| Chani | where's the | character? | 01:56 |
| RST38bis | bedtime =] | 01:56 |
| Chani | sp3000: yes, wrong networks and "searching" forever | 01:56 |
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| sp3000 | Chani: Chr, second page | 01:56 |
| Chani | found it | 01:57 |
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| * sp3000 mapped it to Fn - | 01:57 | |
| Chani | any idea what the network-y processes might be called? | 01:57 |
| fredyrivera | Now I have to disconnect, if someone has an idea, please send me a mail to fredyrivera at gmail dot com | 01:58 |
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| fredyrivera | thanks for the help | 01:58 |
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| sp3000 | Chani: I suppose you could |/etc/init.d/this-or-that restart| for random things until you get success, reboot, or an even more confused state ;) | 02:00 |
| Chani | hrm. I need to get bash completion on this thing | 02:00 |
| Chani | and ssh-server | 02:00 |
| Chani | sp3000: will I be able to do that without root? | 02:01 |
| sp3000 | unlikely | 02:01 |
| Chani | blarg | 02:02 |
| sp3000 | icd2 is the intarwebs connectorification dabbler, wlancond is a wee lan condensator doohickey | 02:02 |
| * sp3000 needs sleep :) | 02:03 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | AStorm, with good wifi powersaving and everything? I don't think so. :P | 02:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Bleh, he's back at it again | 03:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | https://wiki.maemo.org/Ext2_file_system_on_flash_card_partition | 03:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | That article seriously needs to die. | 03:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | "How to break your tablet in 10 easy steps" | 03:00 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Snarky shit like this doesn't belong in the wiki: https://wiki.maemo.org/Ext2_file_system_on_flash_card_partition#Why_you_should_consider_an_other_method | 03:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | It needs to die. . . . | 03:02 |
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| mdg | anyone care to troubleshoot vnc on nokia 770 running os 2006 | 03:08 |
| mdg | trying to connect from linux mint PC to nokia 770 via vncserver on mint pc | 03:09 |
| mdg | do I need anything other than vnc/vncserver installed on both? | 03:09 |
| dystopia | GeneralAntilles: such comments are the reason for Talk: | 03:10 |
| *** henrique has quit IRC | 03:10 | |
| dystopia | the page doesn't even have proper capitalisation | 03:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | dystopia, yes, which is yet another reason why I want the article dead. ;) | 03:11 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The primary reason, of course, being that the method described is _extremely_ unstable and unsafe | 03:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | and is superseded by a much better method: | 03:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~boot-sd | 03:12 |
| infobot | somebody said boot-sd was https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card | 03:12 |
| mdg | what's the command for connecting via VNC to nokia from PC | 03:13 |
| dystopia | move it to some obscure wiki :> is there a process to declare a page for deletion? | 03:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, I already tried. | 03:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | He spazzed out | 03:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | and qgil jumped in and defended him for some goddamn reason | 03:14 |
| dystopia | well what he stated could be reworded in far less lines... | 03:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I could fix the article up myself | 03:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | but why? | 03:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | So there can be a good article for a really, really, terrible method of getting more application install space? | 03:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't think so. | 03:16 |
| mdg | VNC anyone? | 03:17 |
| dystopia | less garbage makes it easier to read | 03:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | mdg, if you installed x11vnc on the tablet, then there should be a menu entry to start it | 03:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | then find yourself a client on the Linux machine and connect to your tablet's IP. | 03:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | dystopia, I don't want anything about it to be easy. ;) | 03:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | I want it deleted. | 03:18 |
| mdg | yes, trying to connect from my PC to the tablet via vnc | 03:18 |
| mdg | don't understand the commands: vnc XXXXX (ip address = XXXX) and then what | 03:19 |
| crashanddie | ~seen dneary | 03:19 |
| infobot | dneary <n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 9h 55m 6s ago, saying: 'Community file storage and content management - there's a problem space that we're not good at yet'. | 03:19 |
| *** vcgomes[away] is now known as vcgomes | 03:21 | |
| mdg | do I need ssh as well in 2006 | 03:21 |
| dystopia | why not simplt delete it ;> | 03:21 |
| GAN800 | dystopia, because I made the mistake of trying to go about it the nice way the first time aroumd | 03:22 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, what's the fuss about? | 03:22 |
| GAN800 | Now I need some sort of consensus. | 03:22 |
| crashanddie | GAN800, ask me, I'm always impartial, fair, just, and agreeing with the one who pays most | 03:23 |
| GAN800 | https://wiki.maemo.org/Ext2_file_system_on_flash_card_partition | 03:23 |
| crashanddie | Create a template for pages that are outdated and are currently under discussion | 03:24 |
| crashanddie | we can actually make it big and ugly so that no one misses it | 03:24 |
| GAN800 | Already exists | 03:24 |
| crashanddie | then why isn't it on this page? | 03:24 |
| GAN800 | It's not really 'out-of-date' though | 03:24 |
| crashanddie | sometimes the wiki on maemo is such a mess | 03:24 |
| GAN800 | I try. :P | 03:25 |
| crashanddie | Tell me where you need a hand | 03:25 |
| crashanddie | I'm serious, gimme directives. In a dayjob, I know what I have to do. In a community, I never know, because everything I try will always piss off someone | 03:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 03:26 |
| crashanddie | GAN800, I are your base | 03:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, put a comment on the talk page under the deletion thread that you're in favor of deleting. | 03:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Some general stuff is outlined here: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemowiki_Action_Group | 03:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Needs updating, though. | 03:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Slap your name on the bottom of that list. | 03:27 |
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| GeneralAntilles | These are the old midgard articles: https://wiki.maemo.org/Category:Midgard_wiki | 03:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | They all need to be fixed up and cleaned | 03:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | A karma plugin for the wiki would be really useful | 03:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | so if you want to poke bergie about getting going on that. . . . | 03:29 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, what's the plugin supposed to do? | 03:33 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, see who works a lot on different pages? | 03:33 |
| mdg | no luck with vnc | 03:33 |
| crashanddie | actually, lcuk uses vnc quite a lot :D | 03:33 |
| lcuk | only at work | 03:34 |
| GAN800 | Grab the number of edits from each user, do a karma calculation on that number and add it to a user's karma count. | 03:34 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, it was just a poor wordplay on "no lcuk with vnc" | 03:34 |
| GAN800 | So, if you login and click 'prefs' up top it'll show you your edits | 03:34 |
| crashanddie | actually, that shouldn't be a wiki plugin | 03:35 |
| GAN800 | Need to find a better interface to get that number and collect them for karma. | 03:35 |
| GAN800 | karma plugon | 03:35 |
| GAN800 | in | 03:35 |
| GAN800 | for midgard | 03:35 |
| GAN800 | that calculates karma for the wiki | 03:36 |
| crashanddie | have you seen dneary's proposition? | 03:36 |
| crashanddie | I quite like it, tbh | 03:36 |
| GAN800 | about what? | 03:36 |
| mdg | Igot a message that the New X desktop is name-desktop | 03:37 |
| crashanddie | website refreshing | 03:37 |
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| GAN800 | Oh, yeah, haven't done more than sci. it. | 03:37 |
| GAN800 | scim | 03:37 |
| crashanddie | http://abstrusegoose.com/strips/a_wise_man_once_said.PNG | 03:38 |
| crashanddie | this is just so true | 03:38 |
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| mdg | geez,I can'teven get VNC working! | 03:47 |
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| lcuk | start the server on your n810, start the client on your pc, enter ip of your nokia in connection box and bingo! | 03:48 |
| lcuk | if theres a firewall or routing problem then thats your configuration issue | 03:49 |
| yacoob | s/bingo/profit/ | 03:49 |
| * lcuk is not an underpant gnome | 03:49 | |
| crashanddie | lcuk, no, but you live up north and talk funny, therefore, you must be one of the forefathers of Slashdot | 03:53 |
| lcuk | ive got a 6 digit uid on /. you tell me if im a forefather | 03:54 |
| lcuk | by the way crashanddie, is it considered multitouch if you keep one finger still? | 03:56 |
| lcuk | well, thumb | 03:56 |
| mdg | lcuk is 770 running os2006 | 03:56 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, i've been thinking about that | 03:56 |
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| lcuk | mdg, excellent, at least graphically ill be faster than this 810 | 03:57 |
| lcuk | well i kinda have the algo in place, but its a bit jittery atm - needs a filtering stage to make it work better | 03:57 |
| mdg | what would be the name of the vnc client on a pc | 03:58 |
| lcuk | vncviewer.exe or similar, have you never used vnc? | 03:59 |
| mdg | no never have | 03:59 |
| lcuk | ahhh that explains it then | 04:00 |
| * lcuk thought vnc was taught in kindergarden | 04:00 | |
| mdg | oh i type vncviewer and had a pop-up box and when I typed in the IP of my nokia it was unab le to connecty | 04:00 |
| lcuk | do you have a firewall between your pc and your nokia | 04:00 |
| mdg | it says "no route to host" | 04:01 |
| lcuk | software on pc, on router etc | 04:01 |
| lcuk | can you ping your nokia from your pc | 04:01 |
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| mdg | pc I am using is running Mint Cassadra connected via wifi to router configured as AP | 04:01 |
| mdg | connection refused - uh oh | 04:03 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, is the nokia pingable by default? (i seem to recall it is) | 04:04 |
| mdg | Hmm, | 04:07 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, yeah | 04:08 |
| lcuk | thought so, mine is now, but wasnt sure if i'd added anyfink | 04:08 |
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| mdg | I can't believe this is so hard! | 04:12 |
| lcuk | its not, you simply have a paranoid security configuration :) | 04:12 |
| mdg | yeah, leave it to me to be paranoid! LOL | 04:13 |
| lcuk | best security is to restrict services from the network :) | 04:14 |
| lcuk | is it your router thats fudgin you or a software firewall on your pc | 04:15 |
| mdg | no firewall on either mint pc | 04:15 |
| mdg | windows pc isnt' even turned on | 04:16 |
| lcuk | ahhhh that explains the paranoia :) | 04:16 |
| mdg | LOL | 04:16 |
| * lcuk cant talk - im runnin in windows | 04:17 | |
| lcuk | is your 810 connected to the network? | 04:18 |
| derf | So, QR code decoding works. | 04:18 |
| lcuk | can it see the other machines and the wider internet | 04:18 |
| lcuk | NICE derf | 04:18 |
| lcuk | or should i say 10011010101011011101 | 04:18 |
| mdg | yes | 04:18 |
| derf | I've got one code I can't decode, but I can't decide if it's just totally broken, or some other variation of the format. | 04:18 |
| derf | The version bits are in the wrong order, for example. | 04:19 |
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| mdg | see other machines? | 04:19 |
| lcuk | is it a random image you found online, or a live in use code on a product | 04:19 |
| derf | Random image online, of course. | 04:19 |
| lcuk | mdg, yeah your network should be crawling with other infected zombies ;) | 04:19 |
| lcuk | have you tried mirror/flipping it - or does the algo cater for it | 04:20 |
| mdg | infected zombies? | 04:20 |
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| derf | lcuk: No, I mean, they're interleaved in the wrong order. | 04:20 |
| derf | No amount of flipping will help you. | 04:20 |
| lcuk | ahhh, but i have seen people often randomly flip barcodes for asthetic purposes ;) | 04:20 |
| derf | As in, they're in a 3x6 area, and the bits read down columns, instead of across rows. | 04:21 |
| lcuk | what other places have the codes available | 04:21 |
| lcuk | can you goto a shop and test it | 04:21 |
| derf | I haven't got it into the full app yet. | 04:21 |
| derf | Just a command-line program for testing. | 04:21 |
| lcuk | arent the best programs command line driven | 04:22 |
| derf | Of course, but it makes it inconvenient to use in the actual device. | 04:22 |
| derf | I want to do some more work on the binarization, too. | 04:23 |
| derf | It's got some pretty clear deficiencies. | 04:23 |
| lcuk | glad you are advancing though :) is this all your own code or have you swiped and converted on of the java (or other) libs | 04:24 |
| derf | This is basically all my own. | 04:25 |
| derf | I started with someone else's Reed-Solomon decoder, but I changed it a lot. | 04:25 |
| lcuk | mangling is fun | 04:26 |
| mdg | oh well - thanks for the help | 04:26 |
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| derf | I should let the guy doing the Java one know. | 04:27 |
| derf | The generator polynomial he's using is starting from the wrong index, so it's totally busted. | 04:28 |
| lcuk | even though you turned his canoe into an ocean going liner | 04:28 |
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| derf | The only reason his code works at all is that it doesn't correctly reject things when there's too many errors. | 04:28 |
| lcuk | brute force | 04:30 |
| derf | This has nothing to do with brute force. | 04:30 |
| t_s_o | is it me or is itt overrun by trolls these days? | 04:32 |
| lcuk | tso, not noticed so many - where in particular? | 04:33 |
| lcuk | derf, if hes not rejecting bad codes and checking them anyway - its bruteforce | 04:33 |
| t_s_o | heh, i guess i should stop reading/replying to the 200 page monstrosity... | 04:34 |
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| derf | lcuk: No, his error correction is incorrectly determining that valid codes have lots and lots of errors, and then failing to reject them as undecodable. | 04:34 |
| lcuk | ahh | 04:35 |
| derf | Hence it "works". | 04:35 |
| crashanddie | I'm going to have to get back using java :/ | 04:35 |
| derf | But, you know, not really. | 04:35 |
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| Chani | hrm. so the n810 takes SD-mini? I haven't even seen mini for sale before... it's all sd or micro | 04:36 |
| lcuk | lots of micros come with an adapter for mini | 04:37 |
| * Chani really wishes it would take sdhc. then I could put a decent amount of space in there | 04:37 | |
| lcuk | it does | 04:37 |
| Chani | huh? | 04:37 |
| Chani | isn't sdhc the same size as sd? | 04:37 |
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| crashanddie | Chani, SDHC is a standard | 04:40 |
| user__ | Hello | 04:40 |
| lcuk | http://europe.nokia.com/mu-41 | 04:40 |
| crashanddie | Chani, it just means it's over 4Gig | 04:40 |
| crashanddie | Chani, has nothing to do with the form factor itself | 04:40 |
| Chani | oh. :) | 04:41 |
| Chani | do you know what size the micro cards go up to? | 04:41 |
| crashanddie | 16gig coming out soon | 04:41 |
| lcuk | micro sd cards are all the same size :D | 04:41 |
| lcuk | "keep this safe, its listers brain" | 04:42 |
| user__ | What's the coolest app nokia has? | 04:42 |
| lcuk | liqbase | 04:42 |
| user__ | What's that? | 04:43 |
| crashanddie | Chani, http://www.mymemory.co.uk/Micro-SDHC/SanDisk/SanDisk-16GB-Micro-SD-(SDHC)-Card---Class-4-(Excluding-Adaptor) | 04:43 |
| crashanddie | Chani, so it's around 50 quid, should be out in a month's time | 04:43 |
| Chani | ooh, 16 | 04:43 |
| Chani | nice :) | 04:43 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpZiNO2CRtw | 04:43 |
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| lcuk | user__, its my own software, of course i think its the coolest thing on nokia :D | 04:44 |
| user__ | What's it do? | 04:44 |
| lcuk | cool stuff | 04:45 |
| lcuk | have a look on youtube :) | 04:45 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, lol... | 04:45 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, I hate red dwarf | 04:45 |
| Chani | but.. but... it's red dwarf! :) | 04:46 |
| lcuk | :D i grew up with that | 04:46 |
| lcuk | its the best comedy on and off earth | 04:46 |
| user__ | Watchinged it now | 04:46 |
| * Chani can play the theme song | 04:46 | |
| crashanddie | lcuk, I think that's the difference | 04:46 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, you're a 30-odd Briton | 04:47 |
| crashanddie | I'm a 20-odd frenchman | 04:47 |
| lcuk | forget the 20 and the frenchman ;) | 04:47 |
| crashanddie | slightly different culture | 04:47 |
| crashanddie | lol... this is just sad | 04:48 |
| lcuk | :D | 04:48 |
| crashanddie | I was feeling this hard cold thing | 04:48 |
| crashanddie | in my bed | 04:48 |
| crashanddie | I start looking for what it could be | 04:48 |
| lcuk | everytime i think of memory sticks i think of that clip | 04:48 |
| crashanddie | found a empty bottle of beer | 04:48 |
| user__ | Wow! That's cool lcuk! | 04:49 |
| lcuk | see | 04:49 |
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| user__ | Wish i had an 800 | 04:49 |
| crashanddie | user__, you got an 770? | 04:50 |
| user__ | Lol! Yes the only one in existence? | 04:51 |
| crashanddie | No, I just find there's a lot of 770 users popping up recently | 04:51 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, don't you? | 04:51 |
| lcuk | dont i what? find beer bottles in bed? | 04:52 |
| user__ | Mine was cheaper by a lot | 04:52 |
| lcuk | user__, which os are you runnin on it? | 04:52 |
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| user__ | Os 2006 - can't get it to upgrade | 04:54 |
| lcuk | what do you use it for | 04:54 |
| user__ | Window wouldn't find hacker 2007 os | 04:55 |
| lcuk | window? | 04:55 |
| user__ | Just a little bit of everything | 04:55 |
| * lcuk is using too many question marks. time for bed i think | 04:56 | |
| crashanddie | lcuk, last fag? Let's smoke a social one | 04:56 |
| lcuk | ive just put mine out | 04:56 |
| lcuk | if you roll me one and mail it me | 04:57 |
| user__ | Goodnight fellas | 04:57 |
| lcuk | nite user | 04:57 |
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| lcuk | crashanddie, is this just the best cheezburger ever? http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/09/12/funny-pictures-why-u-get-camera/ | 04:58 |
| crashanddie | haha | 04:58 |
| crashanddie | I like it, but there's one I like even more | 04:58 |
| crashanddie | hang on, lemme fetch it | 04:58 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, http://mine.icanhascheezburger.com/view.aspx?ciid=1281909 | 04:59 |
| lcuk | theres been a few gooduns recently, but everytime i encounter that one i lol | 04:59 |
| lcuk | you have an account? | 04:59 |
| crashanddie | account? | 04:59 |
| crashanddie | nope | 04:59 |
| lcuk | lol tis ok i posted before i saw - thought it was from your profile | 05:00 |
| lcuk | http://www2.b3ta.com/host/creative/23692/1220904231/reese.jpg | 05:01 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, btw, if my experience for job hunting has learned me something: 1 get a linkedin profile, 2 get your name high on google | 05:01 |
| lcuk | anyone can get their name high on google :) | 05:01 |
| crashanddie | I mean with important stuff | 05:02 |
| lcuk | it all depends on what the search terms are | 05:02 |
| lcuk | you mean your own name linked with decent stuff | 05:02 |
| crashanddie | yeah | 05:02 |
| lcuk | :) then that is sorted | 05:03 |
| crashanddie | I mean like a small sober professional looking homepage, with links to your greatest work, and snippets of your code | 05:03 |
| gregorovius | lcuk: you can only claim to have the best app for the NITs _once_ you have released something, not before :P | 05:03 |
| lcuk | its in the garage and is open source | 05:03 |
| crashanddie | showing how you're a great dev, how you're a great documenter, etc | 05:04 |
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| gregorovius | "This project has not released any files." | 05:04 |
| crashanddie | gregorovius, look better | 05:04 |
| lcuk | gregorovius, svn | 05:04 |
| lcuk | theres no deb but the code is there - there should be a major update in about a week or so | 05:05 |
| lcuk | fingers crossed | 05:05 |
| crashanddie | s/should/is going to/ | 05:05 |
| gregorovius | i know you're working on it, but I mean release-.deb-maemo-extras | 05:05 |
| lcuk | gregorovius, ive never used any of this linuxy stuff before this year, so its all new and uphill for me | 05:05 |
| gregorovius | you seem to be making good progress :) | 05:06 |
| crashanddie | gregorovius, trust me, it's worth the wait | 05:06 |
| gregorovius | yeah, i'm waiting to see what the summit brings | 05:06 |
| lcuk | i would prefer to hire a junior to handle the packaging and documenting and stuff :) | 05:06 |
| lcuk | hah! the way im feeling right now im not sure ill have stuff done, but as you said ive got the weekend | 05:06 |
| gregorovius | btw, has anyone seen the predictive keyboard method posted in ITT? | 05:06 |
| lcuk | gregorovius, the one from the t9 guy? | 05:07 |
| gregorovius | yeah | 05:07 |
| lcuk | it was discussed today and a few prior art things were found so its fair game :) | 05:07 |
| lcuk | all i need is a dictionary | 05:07 |
| crashanddie | it's buggy | 05:07 |
| crashanddie | but "works for me" | 05:08 |
| gregorovius | I'd really like to try out something like that | 05:08 |
| gregorovius | if it works as advertised, it'd kick the onscreen keyboard's ass thrice | 05:08 |
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| crashanddie | If I manage to fine tune it, maybe lcuk will be able to demo my version of it during the Summit :P | 05:08 |
| lcuk | wheres the actual itt thread? | 05:08 |
| lcuk | have you tried an implimentation crash/ | 05:09 |
| crashanddie | :D | 05:09 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk, I have the vectors working, key detection is a bit dodgy, and word matching is too wide/slow | 05:10 |
| lcuk | nice | 05:11 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, can take up to 10s to find a 5 letter word | 05:12 |
| crashanddie | and for some reason "considerate" makes it segfault | 05:12 |
| lcuk | it shouldnt need to do anything like that - it should walk down a tree of words | 05:12 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, I wrote in like... 3 hours | 05:13 |
| lcuk | with a preinitialized wordtree it should be practically instant | 05:13 |
| lcuk | are you reading the flattext wordlist file? | 05:14 |
| crashanddie | I'm using regexp | 05:14 |
| lcuk | that might explain it then | 05:14 |
| crashanddie | yeah I know, but like I said, I need to tune it | 05:15 |
| crashanddie | I just wanted to see if I could get it work "run" | 05:15 |
| lcuk | have you got a wordlist file handy? | 05:15 |
| crashanddie | think I do, hang on | 05:15 |
| lcuk | mail it me please - if its not too big ill have a try tomorrow | 05:15 |
| lcuk | the ones i found were quite volumous and not right for preloading | 05:16 |
| lcuk | and i didnt wanna mess with sqlite yet | 05:16 |
| crashanddie | how's 1M sound? | 05:16 |
| lcuk | bigger than the ones i tried.. | 05:16 |
| lcuk | not to worry | 05:16 |
| crashanddie | actually... 1M in memory isn't that drastic, is it? | 05:17 |
| crashanddie | you just got me thinking :P | 05:17 |
| crashanddie | anyway | 05:17 |
| crashanddie | I'm calling it a night | 05:17 |
| crashanddie | talk to you later bro | 05:17 |
| lcuk | ditto | 05:17 |
| lcuk | gnite | 05:17 |
| crashanddie | 'nite | 05:18 |
| lcuk | gnite chan | 05:18 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Yes, t_s_o, itT is full of trolls. | 08:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd just as soon leave them to it | 08:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | itT hasn't been useful in a very long time. | 08:24 |
| t_s_o | to bad really | 08:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Meh, if they're wasting their energy there, they're not wasting it at productive places like maemo.org. ;) | 08:30 |
| * Stskeeps is definately wasting his time making dpkg-buildpackage'able deblet packages. | 08:35 | |
| Stskeeps | as in, hours i wish could get back of my life | 08:36 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:36 |
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| Stskeeps | hm, anyone who knows if you can make a package depend on name-<kernel version user is running>? | 08:50 |
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| Italodance | help | 09:04 |
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| RST38h | italo: ? | 09:22 |
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| jrayhawk | I need to work out what's going wrong during init on an n810; is there a workable equivalent to single user mode or init=/bin/sh or even getting rid of the splash screen so I can get output more useful than a meaningless blue status bar? | 09:50 |
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| Stskeeps | jrayhawk: there's a thread about this on ITT regarding fb console mode i believe | 09:57 |
| jrayhawk | ooh | 09:59 |
| jrayhawk | I guess the serial console is another option, though documentation for that seems a bit scattered and confusing | 10:00 |
| RST38h | afaik there is no fb console mode | 10:00 |
| RST38h | at least not in the default kernel | 10:01 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: it's loadable with a module | 10:01 |
| Stskeeps | (i do it in deblet on a stock kernel) | 10:01 |
| jrayhawk | Is the n810 keyboard kernel keymapped or is it X event magic? | 10:03 |
| jrayhawk | X-interpreted event | 10:03 |
| Stskeeps | it's in input0-3 or something | 10:04 |
| jrayhawk | Wacky. | 10:04 |
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| jrayhawk | Uhh... where do I find the maemo ("omap1"?) patchset? | 10:18 |
| jrayhawk | For the kernel, that is. | 10:19 |
| Stskeeps | you want the .o's needed? :P | 10:19 |
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| jrayhawk | Oh. I figured it was open source. | 10:20 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, it is, but it's easier with .o's :P | 10:20 |
| Stskeeps | http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian/2.6.21-omap1.tar.gz , http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet/browser/trunk/packages/main/omap-fb-tools , http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet/browser/trunk/packages/main/omap-fb-console is what i use in Deblet to make the console fb work | 10:20 |
| Stskeeps | (look at the init.d scripts for inspiration) | 10:20 |
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| jrayhawk | I was hoping to go the monolithic route on the basis that I want to give userspace as little opportunity as possible to screw up my debugging efforts. | 10:23 |
| jrayhawk | Plus the monolithic route enables me to replace the kernel and nothing else. | 10:23 |
| jrayhawk | (Which is, for some reason, a constraint on the bizarre flasher tool) | 10:24 |
| jrayhawk | s/ on / in / | 10:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bizarre? | 10:25 |
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| jrayhawk | Is it possible to make a copy of the rootfs or initfs currently on a Nokia? | 10:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sure | 10:29 |
| jrayhawk | I mean, given the constraint that I can't fully boot it because init seems to be broken. | 10:30 |
| jrayhawk | How is that done? | 10:30 |
| Stskeeps | jrayhawk: i think you can prod qwerty12 - he did some work in that area | 10:31 |
| Stskeeps | with a initfs hack | 10:31 |
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| * Sargun bo | 11:14 | |
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| RST38h | hello, zap | 11:46 |
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| zap | RST38h: hi | 11:48 |
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| Jaffa | Morning all | 11:51 |
| lbt | hi everyone | 11:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Howdy | 12:00 |
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| MishaS | jaffa: fyi, i put fbreader in extras :)) would you re-consider your rating? :D | 12:03 |
| RST38h | moo, GA | 12:03 |
| Jaffa | MishaS: yup, will do | 12:03 |
| MishaS | Jaffa, thank you | 12:03 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: You marked FBreader down for not being in Extras? Inexcusable! | 12:03 |
| * RST38h kindly suggests to burn Jaffa at a stake | 12:04 | |
| MishaS | RST38h, that's just one way to encourage lazy developers :) | 12:04 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: gotta have some stick to wield ;-) | 12:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | I like endlessly badgering the mailing list myself. ;) | 12:04 |
| * MishaS dreams of having gronmeyer useless... | 12:04 | |
| Stskeeps | there should really be a package search engine for the extras/etc though | 12:05 |
| Stskeeps | like for diablo/sdk tools etc | 12:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | ferenc is working on it | 12:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | packages.maemo.org | 12:05 |
| Jaffa | MishaS: I don't use Gronmeyer - I don't think there are (m)any apps I've got installed which aren't from extras(-devel) | 12:06 |
| MishaS | jaffa, you do not, but others do... | 12:06 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: a la packages.debian.org ? | 12:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | gronmayer's usefulness has gone down a lot since Diablo. | 12:06 |
| Jaffa | MishaS: oh, indeed - I hope it goes away by having more stuff in extras :) | 12:06 |
| Stskeeps | hopefully more stable than packages.debian.org | 12:06 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's not even up-to-date anymore. | 12:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, I suppose, ferenc mentioned he wanted to take it on during one of the previous sprint meetings. | 12:07 |
| mikkov_ | is the repostory.maemo.org still in Gronmayer? ;) | 12:07 |
| Jaffa | MishaS: has the old fbreader repo been removed from gronmayer? | 12:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Only the Chinook repos | 12:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha, forgot about this one: http://flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/2454546023/ | 12:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wish X on the VGA weren't so godawful slow. | 12:09 |
| mikkov_ | somebody even put repostory.maemo.org link to maemo downloads .install file... | 12:09 |
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| MishaS | jaffa: nope | 12:09 |
| RST38h | Sts: Search engine exists: fms.komkon.org/maemo | 12:10 |
| MishaS | ha, that reminded me to update the 'download' page for fbreader to mention extras... | 12:10 |
| RST38h | Sts: And it is even MicroB friendly unlike Gronmayer | 12:10 |
| RST38h | MishaS: Btw, can I request to [optionally] show current time in FBReader? | 12:10 |
| Jaffa | It does, doesn't it? | 12:11 |
| Jaffa | In full screen mode, isn't the time at the bottom right of the screen? | 12:11 |
| mikkov_ | requiring buildable sources for extras is the best thing happened for maemo, imo | 12:11 |
| Jaffa | yup | 12:11 |
| RST38h | Nope - have to minimize it to check whether you have exceeded your daily no-sleep allowance | 12:11 |
| MishaS | RST38h, can you elaborate please? | 12:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, it shows time right next to the progress bar | 12:11 |
| RST38h | Lemme check | 12:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | You can see it right here: http://flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/2848217584/sizes/o/ | 12:12 |
| Jaffa | MishaS: re-rated | 12:12 |
| MishaS | RST38h, you might need to enable it in options. | 12:12 |
| MishaS | jaffa: thank you | 12:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | FBReader should probably go into the Pearls now, too. | 12:12 |
| RST38h | MishaS: Ah! Checking. | 12:12 |
| RST38h | GA: Should be there already | 12:12 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: shouldn't have been, cos that's a carrot of getting in extras | 12:13 |
| RST38h | yea, time is there! | 12:13 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: umgh | 12:13 |
| * RST38h still does not understand obsession with extras and source packages there | 12:13 | |
| MishaS | GeneralAntilles, it used to be there... i'm not sure what it means though :) | 12:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | What's not to understand? | 12:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | MishaS, https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Remarkable_community_projects | 12:14 |
| RST38h | they are of course handy, but why take them so religiously? | 12:14 |
| MishaS | RST38h, package in extras means that the user can install it without any additional hassle | 12:14 |
| Jaffa | The "obsession" about Extras is that it's installed on all devices by default. Source packages give us flexibility when a package author disappears (as has happened many times) | 12:14 |
| RST38h | MishaS: I have got a few packages in extras, I know | 12:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | One of the long-term goals is to have Extras ship enabled. | 12:14 |
| RST38h | Yea | 12:15 |
| RST38h | And it should have been done long time ago too | 12:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, Nokia has its own ass to watch out for. | 12:15 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: This is only useful if there are people willing to maintain those packages | 12:15 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: My guess is that Nokia will end up hiring somebody specificially for package creation and maintenance | 12:16 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: there've been a number of instances where someone published a binary package, without source and then never updated it. | 12:16 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: not a problem as far as I am concerned: if the author does not like his work, why should we use it? | 12:16 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: because if it's a package like X-Chat, the work done in Hildonising it will have to be reinvented when someone wants to pick it up | 12:17 |
| RST38h | And if he does, he will take care of it | 12:17 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: True but such is life :) | 12:17 |
| Jaffa | But not with source packages ;-) | 12:17 |
| RST38h | Isn't life about doing the same crap over and over again? =) | 12:17 |
| MishaS | RST38h, that's not very optimistic... but it tends to be true... :) | 12:18 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Well, one concern I have is that Nokia will change APIs more drastically in the next 1-2 MaemoOS releases. Then having sources won't help unless there is someone willing to go through them | 12:18 |
| mikkov_ | old sources still make it easier to update things | 12:19 |
| RST38h | Example: sooner or later someone will have to take care of stupid hw keycode assignments | 12:19 |
| RST38h | mikkov: yea, but you won't get the "just a rebuild" advantage | 12:20 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Surely you can see that having some source for an earlier API is going to be easier to update, than one without? Even in terms of GUI customisations for the small screen etc. | 12:20 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: Yes, it will definitely help | 12:20 |
| MishaS | well, with sources available Nokia could invest a bit of time to see how compatible existing apps are with new APIs :) | 12:20 |
| MishaS | check binary compatibility is more difficult | 12:20 |
| MishaS | (checking) | 12:21 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: No-one's claiming it'll always be a straight recompile - although for chinook->diablo, diablo Extras could be primed with source packages from chinook Extras | 12:21 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: but to be actually useful it requires a person willing to change it - this is very important and it is social not technical detail | 12:21 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: and that helpeyness is why we like source packages | 12:21 |
| * RST38h still using chinook rootstrap btw | 12:21 | |
| mikkov_ | RST38h: yes, so what? we don't know when api breaks, and even if does, without old sources _everything_ has to be redone | 12:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hrm, is Downloads being funky with comments again? | 12:21 |
| RST38h | sb2 diablo rootstrap is broken | 12:21 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: of course it still requires someone to pick it up if the original author goes away, but the barrier to entry for that person is dimisnhed | 12:21 |
| mikkov_ | I have been working to get leafpad and aisleriot from bora to chinook, and it is painful because old sources were not there | 12:23 |
| mikkov_ | ah to diablo | 12:23 |
| RST38h | Anyone knows where to report sb2 bugs? | 12:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | mikkov_, by the way, I installed Beneath a Steel Sky the other day. | 12:24 |
| mikkov_ | then you have to crawl around net to find the sources | 12:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | _Really_ slick. | 12:24 |
| RST38h | mikkov: google to the rescue =) | 12:24 |
| mikkov_ | :) | 12:24 |
| MishaS | RST38h, according to http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/sbox2, it's https://bugs.freedesktop.org/ | 12:24 |
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| mikkov_ | GeneralAntilles: BASS is one of the finest adventure games, and it's free now ;) | 12:25 |
| mikkov_ | need to get that scummvm to diablo extras | 12:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe, time to get to bugging fanoush | 12:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm a bit surprised it isn't already in there, actually. | 12:26 |
| MishaS | fanoush, already expressed his opinion in the ml | 12:26 |
| mikkov_ | actually i put to extras-devel | 12:26 |
| MishaS | s/, / / | 12:26 |
| infobot | MishaS meant: fanoush already expressed his opinion in the ml | 12:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh did he? | 12:27 |
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| MishaS | yes, there are some problems with packaging and he does not want to spend his time on that | 12:27 |
| MishaS | he needs help | 12:27 |
| mikkov_ | scummvm is in extras devel with all features enabled, but fanoush wants to use tremor instead of vorbis | 12:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | mikkov_, sounds like an opportunity. :P | 12:27 |
| mikkov_ | and I can't get tremor to work at all | 12:28 |
| MishaS | fanoush was talking about special parameters for compilation, i think... | 12:28 |
| MishaS | related to code generation issues... | 12:28 |
| RST38h | MishaS: Weird... | 12:29 |
| mikkov_ | everything else is sorted out except tremor | 12:29 |
| RST38h | MishaS: I filed it at bugs.maemo.org, hopefully somebody will pick it up | 12:29 |
| MishaS | RST38h, the bug about?.. | 12:29 |
| RST38h | Whoever encountered this, please confirm: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3702 | 12:29 |
| * MishaS . o O (or is it "a bug about?..) | 12:30 | |
| RST38h | MishaS: their diablo rootstrap depends on a newer development version of libhildonfm2 that has not yet been distributed to the general userbase | 12:30 |
| RST38h | So whatever you build with it will not install | 12:30 |
| MishaS | wow! | 12:30 |
| MishaS | i'll check with suomya... :) | 12:31 |
| RST38h | And now, let us create timeless some work... | 12:31 |
| MishaS | RST38h, he does not need help with that... :) | 12:32 |
| MishaS | btw, did you get clock? | 12:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | mikkov_, how do you use items? | 12:34 |
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| mikkov_ | GeneralAntilles: are you talking about BaSS? | 12:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 12:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stuck in the first room. | 12:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Got the rung, can't use it on the door. | 12:34 |
| mikkov_ | select item, then use d-pad center | 12:34 |
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| GeneralAntilles | How do you select items? | 12:35 |
| MishaS | mikkov_, http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/38141#38141 | 12:35 |
| mikkov_ | click on the upper edge of the screen | 12:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Aha! | 12:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Thanks. | 12:36 |
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| RST38h | MishaS: Yes, wonderful =) | 12:36 |
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| RST38h | MishaS: He insists on keeping web browser in browserd | 12:36 |
| mikkov_ | MishaS: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23071&highlight=scummvm | 12:36 |
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| MishaS | mikkov_, that thread was about problems that fanoush had... | 12:37 |
| RST38h | MishaS: Although this "solution" has been proved to cause major problems (hangups, memory leakage) and does not significantly improve microb startup time | 12:37 |
| * MishaS checks the thread @ itt | 12:37 | |
| RST38h | So I am gonna file several bugs for this | 12:37 |
| mikkov_ | my thread is about solving them ;) | 12:37 |
| MishaS | mikkov_, good :) | 12:37 |
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| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, I don't think it's "his" decision. | 12:38 |
| MishaS | RST38h, i'm not sure that it's timeless who insists on that... :) | 12:38 |
| MishaS | RST38h, i'm quite sure that it's not him... :) | 12:38 |
| MishaS | as for this solution, looks like chrome -- google's browser -- is on the same path... | 12:39 |
| RST38h | GA: Then whoever made it has to be made aware of this | 12:40 |
| RST38h | MishaS: I do not care what browser is on the same path =) | 12:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | I doubt they're paying attention to Bugzilla. | 12:40 |
| RST38h | MishaS: but 30% of total RAM leaked via shared memory, hangups, and other stuff - I do care about | 12:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | It seems to me that the implementation isn't necessarily flawed, it's just new and buggy. | 12:41 |
| RST38h | GA: I will file 3 bugs and raise ruckus | 12:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Try to keep it civil. | 12:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, the rest of the council is too slow on the uptake for my tastes. :P | 12:41 |
| RST38h | GA: it is flawed in a sense that you are keeping the main part of the browser (rendering engine), huge, potentially buggy piece of code, resident | 12:41 |
| MishaS | RST38h, i agree that leakages and stability are certainly of concern :) | 12:42 |
| * RST38h promises not to call for torching of Nokia HQ | 12:42 | |
| MishaS | RST38h, however i do not think that getting rid of browserd as such will help to deal with those issues :D | 12:42 |
| RST38h | MishaS: My guess is that you will never "fix" Gecko not to hang crash or leak | 12:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | I think the benefits will become more evidently when more stuff relies on browserd | 12:43 |
| MishaS | RST38h, _i_ certainly won't :D | 12:43 |
| RST38h | MishaS: So, it has to be kept in application where it is easier to kill and does not require shared memory | 12:43 |
| RST38h | MishaS: I meant it it in general sense :) | 12:43 |
| RST38h | GA: Benefits? 10-20% win in startup time | 12:43 |
| RST38h | GA: Measured and reluctantly accepted by timeless himself and another guy from Nokia (Roman) | 12:43 |
| RST38h | Ok, hangups: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3703 | 12:44 |
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| MishaS | mikkov_, do you keep your changes in a vcs of any sort? | 12:47 |
| mikkov_ | MishaS: I usually try make my changes as patches to original source | 12:48 |
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| mikkov_ | patches as distributed as part of the debian sources | 12:48 |
| mikkov_ | or in diff.gz | 12:49 |
| MishaS | mikkov_, i see. did you try those on top of 0.12? | 12:49 |
| RST38h | Memory leakage: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3704 | 12:49 |
| mikkov_ | ah, for scummvm changes are totally build related, patches are from fanoush. I didn't try 0.12, but there shouldn't be any problems | 12:50 |
| MishaS | RST38h, it would be more helpful if you specify the exact version from "about the device'... | 12:50 |
| MishaS | (provided the reaction on the bug is immediate, there are no problems, but if the reaction for any reason is not immediate, then... :)) | 12:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, I'm going to start marking them INVALID if you don't start including the version. . . . ;) | 12:53 |
| RST38h | MishaS: it is the latest Diablo with the latest software update, trust me | 12:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, yeah, what about in a month or so when the next SSU update comes? | 12:54 |
| RST38h | GA: my tablet is charging under the desk, please, save my spine =) | 12:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | It wont be the latest Diablo release then | 12:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | or a year down the road | 12:54 |
| MishaS | RST38h, it's not about trust :) it's about when people will start looking at the stuff. | 12:54 |
| RST38h | Ok, ok, will change | 12:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | 4.2008.30-2 | 12:54 |
| RST38h | MishaS: oh | 12:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Write it down on a post-it note or something. | 12:54 |
| RST38h | thanks | 12:54 |
| RST38h | Changing bugs | 12:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or just ask me whenever you file. :P | 12:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~latest | 12:54 |
| infobot | methinks latest is :Sat May 12 03:07:00 2001 ?? | 12:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~maemo-version | 12:55 |
| MishaS | ~cool | 12:55 |
| infobot | somebody said cool was there, there, everything is going to fix out | 12:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~maemo-version is 4.2008.30-2 | 12:55 |
| infobot | okay, GeneralAntilles | 12:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | There, RST38h. ;) | 12:55 |
| MishaS | GA, how to get a list of what infobot does? | 12:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | MishaS, that's practically never an option with IRC bots. | 12:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mostly it does substitution. | 12:56 |
| jott | MishaS: query him with help | 12:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/it/the bot/ | 12:56 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: Mostly the bot does substitution. | 12:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | and it has some binds for various useful stuff like | 12:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~boot-sd | 12:57 |
| infobot | [boot-sd] https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card | 12:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~flashing | 12:57 |
| infobot | methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 12:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~diablo-changelog | 12:57 |
| infobot | well, diablo-changelog is Announcement: http://tinyurl.com/6k7q7q Version chart: http://tinyurl.com/5duv6t Bugzilla: http://tinyurl.com/68bffr Wikipedia: http://tinyurl.com/4wafha | 12:57 |
| jott | ~musthave | 12:57 |
| infobot | [musthave] Maemo Mapper, FBReader, Vagalume, Canola, Numpty Physics, X-Chat, Evince, ScummVM, MyTube, MPlayer, Advanced Backlight, USBControl, Large Statusbar Clock, Transmission and much more. Also see http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Remarkable_community_projects | 12:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then it dispenses insults | 12:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~lart jott | 12:57 |
| * infobot keeps mailing jott free America Online CDs until he drowns | 12:57 | |
| GeneralAntilles | ~kill GAN800 | 12:57 |
| * infobot shoots a charged anti-meson gun at GAN800 | 12:57 | |
| GeneralAntilles | ~slap infobot | 12:57 |
| * infobot slaps infobot, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! | 12:57 | |
| GeneralAntilles | There are probably a few more plugins, but that's what we use him for. | 12:58 |
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| mikkov_ | Has anybody tried commenting on maemo downloads? because I think that it's broken again. | 13:00 |
| jott | well just query the bot and ask him for "help" to know :) | 13:01 |
| jott | ~ddesc hildon | 13:01 |
| infobot | Debian Desc Search of 'hildon' (14 of 31): libhildonwm0 ;; libhildondesktop-dev ;; hildon-fm-l10n-engb ;; libhildonwm0-dbg ;; libhildonthumbnail0-dbg ;; hildon-desktop-dev ;; libhildonmime-dev ;; dates-hildon ;; libhildonwm-dev ;; libhildonthumbnail-dev ;; tasks-hildon ;; libhildonfm2 ;; hildon-update-category-database ;; libhildonmime0. | 13:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | mikkov_, I just tried to add a comment to FBReader without success. | 13:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade! | 13:01 |
| jott | ~hex ELF | 13:02 |
| infobot | ELF is 45 4C 46 | 13:02 |
| MishaS | jott: thank ou | 13:02 |
| MishaS | s/ou/you/ | 13:02 |
| infobot | MishaS meant: jott: thank you | 13:02 |
| mikkov_ | GeneralAntilles: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3677 | 13:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | mikkov_, just confirming that my comment on FBReader still isn't there, then I'll reopen | 13:03 |
| mikkov_ | I got two emails that my apps were commented but comments didn't show up in web page | 13:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | reopenend | 13:04 |
| jott | maybe mgedmin will find some time to make povbot usable.. would be nice to have something like ~extras to search for packages in extras :) | 13:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | mikkov_, might want to make a note of that in the bug. | 13:04 |
| mikkov_ | will do | 13:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | jott, https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:maemo.org_IRC_feeds | 13:04 |
| * MishaS is gone for now... | 13:04 | |
| MishaS | see you | 13:04 |
| RST38h | Ok, overall browserd bug report: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3705 | 13:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | If somebody has a working supybot it shouldn't be hard to add the bugzila plugin. | 13:05 |
| jott | well.. povbot is a supybot.. | 13:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, don't file reports like that. <_< | 13:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | One report per issue. | 13:05 |
| jott | !version | 13:05 |
| povbot | jott: The current (running) version of this Supybot is 0.83.1+darcs. The newest version available online is 0.83.3. | 13:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bugzilla isn't a good place for ultimatums | 13:06 |
| RST38h | GA: "keworking browserd" is a single issue | 13:07 |
| RST38h | and no ultimatum either | 13:07 |
| * RST38h waited with this report for a month or two, too | 13:07 | |
| GeneralAntilles | "and Better Be Keworked" | 13:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | sounds like an ultimatum to me | 13:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Last time I checked, it could be killed from xterm on a stock tablet. | 13:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | "be killed using 3rd party tools (CPU load applet, etc)" | 13:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anyway, whatever. | 13:08 |
| * GeneralAntilles will let andre deal with it. | 13:09 | |
| RST38h | GA: Yes, you can do ps + kill | 13:10 |
| RST38h | GA: But how many normal users will do that? From newbie point of view, this will reuire a reboot =9 | 13:10 |
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| RST38h | And I did spend time choosing the right word before coming up with "kework" | 13:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Generally when somebody as "and it better be . . . " there's an implied " . . . or else" after it. | 13:13 |
| RST38h | not really | 13:14 |
| RST38h | but in some contexts, yes | 13:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes really. | 13:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | You'd be much better of with "should be" or "needs to be" | 13:15 |
| RST38h | does not sound that much better =( | 13:18 |
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| RST38h | GA: check it out now :) | 13:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | <_< | 13:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Better | 13:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just, fyi, bug summaries are typically sentence case rather than title case. | 13:25 |
| RST38h | Yes, but it is a habit. I even started to capitalize words in Russian titles | 13:28 |
| RST38h | Although it is not required by the language (they use quotes) | 13:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It's not really an issue, I'm just spastic about consistency | 13:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | so you'll know why I change it if I do. ;) | 13:30 |
| RST38h | yea, no complaint from me on this | 13:30 |
| RST38h | btw, using framebuffer with VGBA speeds it up to 20-25fps, full screen =) | 13:41 |
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| aladds | hello :) | 13:56 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h24f2YjzWBE <- Deblet Rescue Menu (.. yes, sorry, more deblet brag :P) | 13:56 |
| aladds | anyone know why pidgin crashed on login on my 770 w/OS2007HE? | 13:56 |
| aladds | *chashes | 13:56 |
| aladds | *Crashes | 13:56 |
| aladds | is this a known problem? | 13:57 |
| RST38h | 770 - no idea | 13:57 |
| aladds | i've tried latest and the previous one | 13:57 |
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| aladds | is there some way to get a log? | 13:58 |
| RST38h | Sts: change font! =) | 13:58 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: text2screen | 13:58 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:58 |
| aladds | "Internal Error" isn't very helpful... | 13:58 |
| RST38h | Don't hide previous icons, display them in a row =) | 13:58 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: would just take hacking fb-progress really :P | 13:59 |
| RST38h | guess so... | 13:59 |
| * RST38h has been in fb-progress tonight | 13:59 | |
| RST38h | looking for how they use fb0 | 13:59 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: my "idea" is having an initfs that does boot menus in similar fashion.. isn't impossible at all, but icons might be a bit big :P | 14:01 |
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| aladds | does anyone here use OS2007HE? | 14:03 |
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| crashanddie | Does anyone else get the feeling there's a whole lot of new 770 users showing up? | 14:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Seem to be | 14:09 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: going down the foodchain to family members and stuff prolly | 14:09 |
| Stskeeps | and on ebay | 14:09 |
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| CptLaptop | OS2007 Helium Edition - audio output is always high pitched | 14:09 |
| crashanddie | I thought they had died off, like Dinosaurs, a myth only some of us had faintly heard about | 14:09 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: i've given a hacker friend a 770 in birthday present, hope that'll give a good deblet port for it :P | 14:10 |
| aladds | i bought it for £40 on amazon... | 14:11 |
| crashanddie | Stskeeps, you're going to have to diversify your array of discussion subjects if you want to remain popular :P | 14:11 |
| crashanddie | oh wow, £40? | 14:11 |
| aladds | yep :D | 14:11 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: i talk too much about deblet, i know :P | 14:11 |
| * GeneralAntilles hands Stskeeps some notecards on "Nokia not being involved in Bugzilla". | 14:11 | |
| aladds | it's working great except for pidgin or gaim... | 14:12 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 14:12 |
| aladds | i even got skype to sort of work | 14:12 |
| aladds | :P | 14:12 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: ten bucks it's because they have some internal bug system and they don't want to view two | 14:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, that's part of the problem, yes. | 14:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Half of poor andre's job is syncing the two by hand. <_< | 14:13 |
| aladds | bonjour chat works in a sense | 14:13 |
| aladds | if you start the chat from another machine (iChat on my MacBook) then it works fine, but if the 770 starts the chat it crashes when you send messages | 14:13 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: imho the bugzilla shouldn't have been started at all and they should have made patches to publish the external one instead | 14:13 |
| Stskeeps | like a OSS project | 14:14 |
| Stskeeps | er, internal one | 14:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | The long-term goal at the moment is to banish all of the open source projects from the internal tracker. | 14:14 |
| Stskeeps | "look, you can submit bugs here but we won't view it until the community rebels" | 14:14 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:14 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: a system with all components and public/private bugs/comments is a lot better | 14:15 |
| Stskeeps | so the bug reporting is more open as well | 14:15 |
| RST38h | Can't safely publish the internal bug tracker | 14:16 |
| RST38h | It is bound to leak some internal details that would be deemed sensitive | 14:16 |
| Stskeeps | prolly, but the benefit of community bug reporting may weigh more :P | 14:17 |
| RST38h | Probably not a lot but enough for a genuinely interested gentlemen paid to do this kind of stuff | 14:17 |
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| * Stskeeps wonders if dropbox will succumb to the demands of an armel port | 14:19 | |
| Stskeeps | people are very interested to get it on slugs and tablets | 14:19 |
| RST38h | lcuk: 20-25fps full screen, running VGBA at 720x480 | 14:19 |
| RST38h | what IS dropbox? | 14:19 |
| lcuk | nice! does arbitary scaling work in rgb then? | 14:19 |
| RST38h | lcuk: seems so | 14:19 |
| lcuk | even nicer | 14:19 |
| lcuk | wonder why it wasnt implimented anywhere else | 14:19 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: RST38h http://www.getdropbox.com/ | 14:20 |
| lcuk | hows the tearing | 14:20 |
| RST38h | I am now thinking of using it when in window mode as well | 14:20 |
| crashanddie | http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41t52ZS9heL._SS500_.jpg | 14:20 |
| crashanddie | this is actually pretty good looking | 14:20 |
| RST38h | right now it is not | 14:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, this version in Extras? | 14:20 |
| lcuk | are you not updating the fullscreen? | 14:20 |
| RST38h | but I am considering getting rid of vsync and tearing to make it run faster | 14:20 |
| RST38h | GA: not yet | 14:20 |
| RST38h | GA: highly experimental but will filter into all of my emulators | 14:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe, was just about to push me over the edge into putting the effort into getting it installed and moving some ROMs over. :P | 14:21 |
| * lcuk understands experimental | 14:21 | |
| RST38h | lcuk: I am using hw scaler when in full screen mode but not in windowed mode | 14:21 |
| RST38h | lcuk: as to doing 720 instead of 800, it is mainly to keep aspect right | 14:21 |
| lcuk | gah! ive got my 810 set to stay bright when charging - however if it was powered off and its turned on with the charger in it still does screen blanking | 14:22 |
| RST38h | GA: Install the current version - it is not a speed demon but not bad either | 14:22 |
| lcuk | RST38h, whats the native resolution you are drawing at? | 14:23 |
| lcuk | cos gba isnt 720*480 is it? | 14:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 14:23 |
| RST38h | lcuk: 240x160 | 14:23 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, yeah I think I noticed something alike | 14:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anybody make the Wiimote stuff more straightforward yet? | 14:24 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, its about the 4th time ive noticed, its not a big deal, but last time i popped the charger and before i got it back in it shutdown \@/ | 14:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | I think there's a bug for it. | 14:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not sure if it was ever confirmed. | 14:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3300 | 14:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Vote. | 14:26 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, I want to buy a cheap desktop, know where? | 14:26 |
| * lcuk coughs | 14:26 | |
| lcuk | ikea? | 14:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, why "Other" and not "Games"? | 14:27 |
| mavhc | everywhere | 14:27 |
| RST38h | GA: Is VGBA still in Other? | 14:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Looks like it | 14:28 |
| lcuk | RST38h, at 480*320 (doubled your native to get required color plane resolution) and rendering fullscreen scaled bitmaps gives 43fps. the actual do not a lot framerate is 66fps | 14:28 |
| RST38h | lcuk: well, I have to do quite a bit more than just blitting it ;) | 14:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | As is colem | 14:29 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, is 80 quid cheap for a desktop then? | 14:29 |
| RST38h | Downloads shows them in Games | 14:29 |
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| lcuk | no i know - im merely pointing out what the display is capable of | 14:29 |
| RST38h | Ah, I guess they are marked as Other inside .deb packages | 14:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | This'd be the .deb section | 14:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | yeah | 14:29 |
| RST38h | I clones those from fMSX .deb | 14:30 |
| RST38h | s/clones/cloned/ | 14:30 |
| infobot | RST38h meant: I cloned those from fMSX .deb | 14:30 |
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| lcuk | heh, if i use 320*160 greyscale+halfres color i get 250fps! | 14:30 |
| RST38h | heheh | 14:30 |
| RST38h | you probably know that an LCD display normally updates at 50-120fps ;) | 14:30 |
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| lcuk | no, im still living in a crt dominated world | 14:31 |
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| * lcuk gets back to reality and carries on with stuff - ill bebasically afk for most of this weekend | 14:31 | |
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| mavhc | doesn't a, say, 5ms refresh mean an lcd can do 200fps? | 14:32 |
| RST38h | it may | 14:32 |
| RST38h | if you manage to update it at this rate | 14:32 |
| lcuk_busy | it doesnt mean you cant send data to it quicker | 14:32 |
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| lcuk_busy | it just means it wont respond in time | 14:32 |
| RST38h | btw, 5ms LCD panel is probably bogus | 14:34 |
| RST38h | They have not measured the complete change fromblack to white | 14:34 |
| RST38h | GA: Fixed categories, next releases will go into games | 14:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Thanks! | 14:37 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: heh, I know what you mean. Busy weekend for everyone, though | 14:38 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Damn, RST38h, color me impressed. | 14:39 |
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| RST38h | ? | 14:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Messing with VGBA | 14:42 |
| RST38h | ah | 14:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Is there a keymap somewhere? | 14:43 |
| RST38h | Yea, just read VGBA.html | 14:43 |
| RST38h | Keys work generally the same way everywhere | 14:44 |
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| * Stskeeps ponders idly | 16:03 | |
| Stskeeps | did anyone notice there's an xorg server in http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1/free/x/xorg-server/? | 16:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Fremantle is moving to X.org | 16:04 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah, i know, just thought that the xorg wasn't published yet | 16:04 |
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| crashanddie | lol:http://kuvaton.com/kuvei/hockey_fan.jpg | 16:09 |
| aquatix | ghehe | 16:10 |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: okay, either i'm seeing things or i've been running with xorg since i installed rotation support :P | 16:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Gotta be seeing things. | 16:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | That'd totally creep me out. | 16:15 |
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| Stskeeps | well, http://sse2.net/rotate/ , look at the version number of xorg-server, and strings of my installed Xomap says type='method_call',interface='org.x.config.input' | 16:18 |
| Stskeeps | it's kdrive, yes, but it's built off the source from xorg distribution | 16:19 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:19 |
| Stskeeps | maybe their intention is to run some non-tinyx thing, i dunno | 16:20 |
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| Stskeeps | afternoon qwerty12_N800 | 16:22 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hi Stskeeps | 16:23 |
| qwerty12_N800 | The N800 isn't actually a bad device for hacking networks with wep | 16:24 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12_N800, you have a kismet version, don't you? | 16:25 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: on holidays or field trip and hacking inet access? :P | 16:25 |
| qwerty12_N800 | crashanddie: it isn't mine, kismet authors upstream fixed nokia oddities and tz1 on itt made some more fixes and provided a deb. i left kismet running for 24 hours fine | 16:26 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12_N800, link? | 16:26 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps: :p, i'm changing provider so... | 16:27 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: are you youtubeable? | 16:28 |
| qwerty12_N800 | crashanddie: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=190941 , find tz1's kismet deb and install my version of aircrack | 16:28 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps: no idea | 16:28 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h24f2YjzWBE if you are, - played a bit around with fb-progress and text2screen | 16:29 |
| qwerty12_N800 | crashanddie: 24 hours of dumping packets and 1m 30secs cracking the key with aircrack | 16:29 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps: cool, i'll hopefully be able to see :) | 16:29 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps: looks like i am, VERY nice work :) | 16:31 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: it's just a shellscript really and pngs.. didn't include it in my linuxrc just yet | 16:31 |
| Stskeeps | wtf is wrong with the debian mirrors today, my debootstrap keeps on failing | 16:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, turn it into a scrolling menu? | 16:33 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: hm? if i get fb-progress to paint 3 diff pngs on same screen, sure | 16:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm just thinking it'd be easier to see the available options if they're all right in front of you. | 16:34 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12_N800, ncurses-base :'( | 16:35 |
| qwerty12_N800 | crashanddie: add sdk repo and apt-get it | 16:35 |
| crashanddie | k | 16:35 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: yeah, i agree - for now it's just a fun prototype :) | 16:35 |
| qwerty12_N800 | jott: my kernel package is the exact same as the nokia one but with the zimage replaced :) | 16:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia's got some sort of recovery mode, too. | 16:36 |
| qwerty12_N800 | jott: but i see what you mean about the software version stuff...I warned that would happen and did post an update when nokia finally released sources | 16:37 |
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| jott | qwerty12_N800: ah did not realize they actually released the sources. | 16:38 |
| jott | qwerty12_N800: have you run a diff between the versions? | 16:40 |
| qwerty12_N800 | jott: no, but nokia included a changelog | 16:40 |
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| lcuk_busy | question: does life scroll up or down? do i put my newest media at the bottom of a list and let it scroll upwards - like the irc channel (thats for later), or newest at the top of the page and scroll down to older? | 16:44 |
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| lcuk_busy | life apparantly stops heh | 16:51 |
| jott | lcuk_busy: depends on the content i would say :) | 16:52 |
| lcuk_busy | im thinking for graffiti live scrolling view | 16:52 |
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| lcuk_busy | im about () this close to allowing text notes (tweets ;)) and they should flow like scrollback | 16:52 |
| lcuk_busy | otherwise its juddery if you add a group of lines - the order of them is thrown out if shown in reverse order | 16:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | juddery? | 16:53 |
| jott | qwerty12_N800: so nothing relevant changed? :P | 16:54 |
| lcuk_busy | in your mind reading the latest before what was written before | 16:54 |
| lcuk_busy | imagine the irc chan flowing backwards | 16:54 |
| jott | qwerty12_N800: i gather this "WiWLAN" has to do with wimax? | 16:55 |
| qwerty12_N800 | jott: nope :p. just some wimax driver source released. i keep shoving your rotation patch in each ssu updated kernel to keep the punters happy :) | 16:55 |
| qwerty12_N800 | jott: yeah | 16:55 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12_N800, where does kismet store the network dumps? | 16:56 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | crashanddie: /media/mmc1/kismet by default i think. I think you edit /etc/kismet/kismet.conf to change location | 16:58 |
| lcuk_busy | http://www.flickr.com/photos/yorkie/2370080030/sizes/o/ my god this makes me hungry | 16:58 |
| * qwerty12_N800 should update that aircrack compile later | 16:58 | |
| crashanddie | qwerty12_N800, can't find anything called media in conf file | 17:00 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12_N800, is it the "fifo" line? | 17:00 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | crashanddie: no idea, logtemplate has a media string in it, wait, i'll grep my entire kismet folder | 17:01 |
| crashanddie | thanks | 17:02 |
| qwerty12_N800 | crashanddie: just checked, only logtemplate matches | 17:02 |
| qwerty12_N800 | # Uptime | System Boot up | 17:03 |
| qwerty12_N800 | 1 0 days, 22:32:20 | Linux 2.6.21-omap1 Fri Sep 12 15:26:59 2008 | 17:03 |
| * qwerty12_N800 has to beat 22 hours on his tablet | 17:03 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | My 770 usually has crazy uptime | 17:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Since it's tethered to the wall all the time and only leaves when I go on vacation. | 17:04 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Heh, usually i switch off the N800 or remove the battery due to it crashing. y/day was a special exception due to kismet doing its stuff | 17:09 |
| * qwerty12_N800 hates compiling for my router more than i do the initfs | 17:11 | |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: i'm making deblet more debian friendly.. with dpkg-buildpackage and all that shit. -that- is a shitty job | 17:11 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:11 |
| Stskeeps | but i'm amazed with how much OS2008 stuff that's actually OSS these days | 17:12 |
| qwerty12_N800 | :p, you finally gave in to the powers that be debian/rules etc then :p | 17:12 |
| Stskeeps | well i'm switching to only a tablet non-free repository on the tablet itself, and an apt repository | 17:13 |
| lopz | hola | 17:14 |
| Stskeeps | and generally cleaning up the packages | 17:14 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps: i have to run a httpd on my computer to test out binaries on the router because the dropbear implementation it comes with is retarded :p | 17:15 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 17:16 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet/browser/trunk/packages work so far | 17:16 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps: sounds like you have made a lot of changes,would upgrade_deblet update my currently installed deblet? | 17:19 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: right now upgrade_deblet will break - when i'm done it will | 17:19 |
| Stskeeps | it won't trash the tablet, just not upgrade properly :P | 17:19 |
| qwerty12_N800 | k, thanks | 17:19 |
| Stskeeps | this will make new updates to the system -much- easier, as it's very little we have to update the non-free packages | 17:20 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | RST38h: around? | 17:25 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps: btw, keeping framebuffer in auto slows down time to "draw" to the screen which may explain why you got faster results when using a splash | 17:29 |
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| * Jaffa 's maemo.org presentation template sample: http://bleb.org/software/maemo/mud-builder.pdf | 17:32 | |
| inz | Jaffa, does mud-builder use nerual networks for something?-) | 17:33 |
| Jaffa | 'sposed to show community stuff | 17:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | The white background on the title text is a little weird | 17:34 |
| Jaffa | Trawling through sxc.hu to find a suitable image which isn't too corporate is a little tedious | 17:34 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: it's slightly transparent, not sure I like it yet | 17:34 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I'd go more transparent. | 17:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | and bump up the top padding on both lines. | 17:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe bump the type size a bit. | 17:35 |
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| aladds | if you use the garnet VM, where are the storage files kept? | 17:48 |
| aladds | i'd like to shove it on my MMC and symlink to it (to save space on internal) | 17:48 |
| qwerty12_N800 | ~/.gvm i'd guess | 17:49 |
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| lcuk_busy | http://www.flickr.com/photos/yorkie/2370080030/sizes/o/ my god this makes me hungry | 18:05 |
| lcuk_busy | shit | 18:05 |
| qwerty12 | ~seen brontide | 18:05 |
| qwerty12 | ~seen snowmoon-work | 18:05 |
| infobot | brontide <n=brontide@venus.smog.albany.edu> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 23h 3m 55s ago, saying: 'engrish is always good for a laugh'. | 18:05 |
| infobot | snowmoon-work <n=brontide@venus.smog.albany.edu> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 1h 17m 25s ago, saying: 'Doh'. | 18:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk_busy's uh fatty | 18:07 |
| * GeneralAntilles just ate a giant burger | 18:07 | |
| * GeneralAntilles is not hungry. | 18:07 | |
| lcuk_busy | i drooled | 18:07 |
| lcuk_busy | and i also didnt mean to repaste that | 18:07 |
| lcuk_busy | i alt tabbed and tried to build | 18:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 18:07 |
| * lcuk_busy is really busy | 18:08 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Clearly | 18:08 |
| lcuk_busy | i dont think my fingers have ever coded so much | 18:08 |
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| * Jaffa remembers to download the German maps for Maps | 18:17 | |
| qwerty12 | ~lart busybox for not having a groups module | 18:17 |
| * infobot makes a balloon animal out of busybox for not having a groups module | 18:17 | |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12: it was just dsp headers missing to be able to build osso-esd, right? | 18:25 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: yep | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | k | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | my goal is being able to dpkg-buildpackage most stuff so i cant go the easy way :P | 18:26 |
| qwerty12 | hehe | 18:27 |
| * qwerty12 hates cc'ing for mips | 18:27 | |
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| Stskeeps | let's just say i don't look forward to compiling xserver-omap ;) | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | or kernel headers for that sake.. | 18:28 |
| qwerty12 | Meh, xomap doesn't take long :). I did it once to put rodrigo's xrandr patch into the xserver for diablo | 18:28 |
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| * qwerty12 screams as he discovers groups is a script in this old coreutils >.< | 18:29 | |
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| aladds | crazy question, but how do you re-assign applications to different folders on OS2007? | 18:30 |
| aladds | because my Extras folder seems to have everything in it :P | 18:31 |
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| aladds | i'm sure i saw an option to move things before | 18:31 |
| aladds | but i don't remember where | 18:31 |
| qwerty12 | Control Panel > Panels, Organise. For Os2008 anyway. | 18:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Tasks or something in Control Panel | 18:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's near the bottom | 18:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe Organize | 18:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't remember | 18:32 |
| aladds | navigation | 18:33 |
| aladds | then organise :S | 18:33 |
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| aladds | thanks :) | 18:33 |
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| RST38h | Ok, getting rid of tearsync/vsync | 18:50 |
| RST38h | runs faster this way and I hope most users will tolerate some tearing in games | 18:50 |
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| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, you're citing me in a discussion with me. :P | 18:59 |
| RST38h | GA: I know, but it is because you are nicely contradicting yoursel f=) | 19:00 |
| RST38h | Anyways, anybody knows what OMAPFB_TEARSYNC and OMAPFB_FORCE_VSYNC really do? | 19:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's less exciting than it sounds. | 19:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm well aware of the distinction | 19:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | and it's only because the community has adopted MicroB as the generic name for the browser | 19:01 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Because "Mozilla based browser for maemo" just doesn't have a great ring | 19:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | But MicroB is most definitely the engine | 19:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | It can be the engine or the whole browser | 19:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | but never the front-end. | 19:02 |
| RST38h | Mmm...maybe | 19:02 |
| RST38h | But then the whole thing becomes even more diabolic | 19:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, truthfully | 19:02 |
| sp3000 | diabolic or daemonic? | 19:03 |
| lcuk_busy | RST38h, make it an option? | 19:04 |
| aladds | oh dear | 19:04 |
| aladds | now i have a folder on my mmc called .gvm which i can't delete | 19:04 |
| aladds | even as root.. | 19:04 |
| aladds | it says "read-only filesystem" | 19:05 |
| aladds | whereas mount tells me it's rw | 19:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Card is probably corrupt | 19:05 |
| aladds | :( | 19:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | fsck it | 19:06 |
| sp3000 | mount is busybox, it probably lies | 19:06 |
| RST38h | 'Cause it means Nokia has put the whole browser into a daemon :) | 19:06 |
| RST38h | lcuk: that is my suggestion | 19:06 |
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| RST38h | ...and expects it to work whichnobody has expected from web browsers for years now | 19:06 |
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| qwerty12 | RST38h: Voted on 3705. I'm pretty indifferent on the other bugs. | 19:07 |
| sp3000 | ~ $ cat /proc/mounts | 19:07 |
| sp3000 | rootfs / rootfs rw 0 0 | 19:07 |
| sp3000 | ~ $ mount | 19:07 |
| sp3000 | rootfs on / type rootfs (rw) | 19:07 |
| sp3000 | er | 19:07 |
| sp3000 | oops | 19:07 |
| qwerty12 | apt-get install mount-full (in extras I think) | 19:07 |
| qwerty12 | then you can have the proper mount by running mount.full | 19:07 |
| * sp3000 can't keep track of lines, pastes random things | 19:08 | |
| RST38h | qwerty: Other bugs are the basis for 3705 | 19:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, browser is not a daemon. <_< | 19:08 |
| RST38h | GA: In diablo, it is | 19:08 |
| aladds | oh, i rebooted and it's deleted now | 19:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, the application is not a daemon. | 19:09 |
| aladds | i think i'll just use the internal store :P | 19:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | ps ax | grep browser | 19:09 |
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| RST38h | GA: browser = page loader+ renderer + ks | 19:09 |
| RST38h | GA: all three are in browserd | 19:09 |
| sp3000 | aladds: ga is probably right though, the card would tend to end up ro when something gits fs corruption | 19:10 |
| sp3000 | s/gits/hits/ | 19:10 |
| infobot | sp3000 meant: aladds: ga is probably right though, the card would tend to end up ro when something hits fs corruption | 19:10 |
| sp3000 | die bot die | 19:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | ro is 99% certain card corruption | 19:10 |
| * qwerty12 hopes BBC stream the real hustle | 19:10 | |
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| qwerty12 | RST38h: I don't use livejournal, but I guess the other bug has meaning | 19:12 |
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| RST38h | \\ | 19:15 |
| RST38h | qw | 19:15 |
| RST38h | qwerty: I don't think it is limited to lj | 19:15 |
| RST38h | looks like some css or js bug | 19:15 |
| qwerty12 | God knows what it is... Talking about the browser, has anyone tried compiling the MicroB svn? | 19:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not lately | 19:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Not since pre-30-2 | 19:17 |
| qwerty12 | Hmm, I want to try it but at the same time, I'm reluctant. Last time, I had a ~5 hour compile and packages that killed browserd :/ | 19:18 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Do it again! | 19:18 |
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| qwerty12 | Maybe after taking prozac :P | 19:19 |
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| * Jaffa tries to arrange arrive-in-Berlin drinks. Baloo looks like a likely candidate atm ;-) | 19:20 | |
| RST38h | Yes, please, kill browserd again, now in especially perverse manner | 19:22 |
| RST38h | While we watch. | 19:22 |
| sp3000 | lj isn't hurting me | 19:24 |
| sp3000 | well, me, maybe, browser*, no | 19:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | I was gonna say. . . . | 19:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | lj _always_ hurts me. | 19:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, did you ever CC Eero on the memory consumption bug? | 19:25 |
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| sp3000 | even fitwidth didn't break it | 19:28 |
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| qwerty12 | Anyone here has experience with dropbear? | 19:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Back in the 770 days. | 19:29 |
| qwerty12 | I need to recompile it with scp & sftp support but the config.h is throwing me off :/ | 19:30 |
| RST38h | GA: Not yet, just filed a bug | 19:30 |
| RST38h | GA: Hopefully he sees it | 19:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just drop his name in the cc field. | 19:31 |
| RST38h | timeless says it comes from shared memory chunks being left in memory but blaims it on SYSV SHM API | 19:31 |
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| RST38h | eero@nokia.com? | 19:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | just 'eero' should do it. | 19:32 |
| RST38h | no exact match. | 19:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | I added him. ;) | 19:33 |
| RST38h | Thanks! | 19:35 |
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| oilinki3 | ukmp is not for os2008? | 19:59 |
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| Jaffa | oilinki3: use MediaBox instead | 19:59 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty13: something you'd prolly enjoy.. just coded ability to dl a first stage debootstrap tar.gz :P | 20:00 |
| oilinki3 | Jaffa: same thing with different name? | 20:00 |
| Jaffa | oilinki3: No, similar thing, but better and under active development | 20:00 |
| oilinki3 | Jaffa: let me check it out. this is for wife who likes the scrolling albumlist | 20:00 |
| qwerty13 | Stskeeps: Hehe, maybe I won't have to install nit-env-gnome-basic a 1000 times :P | 20:01 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty13: didn't say anything about apt ;) | 20:01 |
| Stskeeps | (yet) | 20:01 |
| Stskeeps | i guess it would be possible to make a apt-get -d thing | 20:01 |
| Stskeeps | that simply injects it into var/cache/apt | 20:01 |
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| * qwerty13 hopes this new dropbear binary runs on my router. I'm actually finding normal CC'ing easier than scratchbox. | 20:02 | |
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| AFBN810 | Hey | 20:18 |
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| AFBN810 | hey wouldn't it possible using hildon ui tools to redesign the layout of a theme to make it look good rotated | 20:19 |
| GAN800 | It's not the theme | 20:20 |
| GAN800 | It's the engine. | 20:20 |
| AFBN810 | ok I wasn't sure I was reading that the theme layout (not the look of it but the placement of things would be changed) | 20:21 |
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| Stskeeps | http://www.flickr.com/photos/qole2/2853096131/ <- woo | 21:05 |
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| Jaffa | Cool | 21:07 |
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| GAN800 | Ahaha | 21:07 |
| GAN800 | The spacebar cracks me up | 21:07 |
| cmatheson | tell me if this isn't the appropriate place to ask this, but i haven't been able to update/install anything on my n800 lately. i'm missing /var/lib/apt/lists.new (i have a lists.old), and i'm not sure how to fix that | 21:07 |
| Stskeeps | GAN800: weirdest bug ever | 21:08 |
| GAN800 | It slays me, though. | 21:09 |
| RST38h | cmatheson: why not add repositories from scratch using app manager? | 21:10 |
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| RST38h | Which spacebar bug? | 21:10 |
| cmatheson | RST38h: hmm, i've tried adding repos, but it fails--should that regenerate them? | 21:10 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: look at photo | 21:10 |
| RST38h | cmatheson: second guess: cp lists.old lists.new | 21:11 |
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| cmatheson | RST38h: that's what i was thinking too, but i can't figure out how to become root (it seems fairly involved, from what i was able to glean from the wiki) | 21:11 |
| RST38h | stskeeps: I think it is trying to tell you something | 21:11 |
| RST38h | stskeeps: Maybe it wants blood... or animal guts as a sacrifice... | 21:11 |
| RST38h | cmatheson: have you got sshd installed? | 21:12 |
| GAN800 | ~root-access | 21:12 |
| infobot | hmm... root-access is http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access | 21:12 |
| cmatheson | RST38h: no :(, i was hoping to install that when i noticed that i can't install anything | 21:12 |
| GAN800 | How in the world is that involved? | 21:12 |
| RST38h | GA: he can't install stuff | 21:12 |
| RST38h | otherwise it would be easier | 21:12 |
| Jaffa | R&D mode is the only realistic way, perhaps | 21:13 |
| RST38h | cmatheson: worst case scenario: you have to reflash | 21:15 |
| cmatheson | RST38h: ok, i think i'll just do that, thanks for the help | 21:17 |
| RST38h | sorry for not being able to figure out something more graceful | 21:17 |
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| cmatheson | that's cool, reflashing isn't a big deal--i just thought i'd check if there was another way | 21:19 |
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| RST38h | http://gizmodo.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/09/blade_873392i.jpg | 21:35 |
| RST38h | "As you can see in the "Blade" vehicle above, efficiency is improved with the wind turbine that designer Ying Hui Choo added to charge an on-board electric battery." | 21:35 |
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| RST38h | Is lack of clue necessary for a designer? | 21:37 |
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| derf | The engine's conversion efficiency might just be really bad. | 21:38 |
| RST38h | yes, but how would a wind turbine help? =) | 21:39 |
| jrayhawk | Maybe it's expected that you leave it lying around some Dutch hills overnight | 21:39 |
| RST38h | yea, in blades-up position =) | 21:39 |
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| lcuk_busy | could be fart powered | 21:39 |
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| Stskeeps | do i remember wrong or is there something that takes a dpkg-buildpackage'able directory and gets the build dependancies through apt? (apt-get build-dep doesn't count. it needs an existing .dsc) | 22:27 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras is where I put a reference to dpkg-checkdeps | 22:31 |
| Stskeeps | excellent :) | 22:35 |
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| derf | Oh, that's fantastic. | 22:48 |
| derf | The following line segfaults with -Os: | 22:48 |
| derf | if(_text[i]>=0x80&&_text[i]<0xA0)return 0; | 22:48 |
| derf | If I replace them with: | 22:48 |
| derf | if(_text[i]>=0x80){ | 22:49 |
| derf | if(_text[i]<0xA0){ | 22:49 |
| derf | return 0; | 22:49 |
| derf | } | 22:49 |
| derf | } | 22:49 |
| derf | It works fine. | 22:49 |
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| Jaffa | Eesh | 22:49 |
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| derf | Arm only, works fine on x86. | 22:50 |
| Jaffa | GCC in buggy compiler shocker. | 22:50 |
| timelyx | yeah... | 22:51 |
| derf | I'm sure it's fixed in one of the 8 versions of gcc released after the one we have in scratchbox. | 22:51 |
| jott | especially gcc 3.4.4 | 22:51 |
| timelyx | i'm shocked, really shocked i tell ya | 22:51 |
| jott | internal compiler errors are a daily joy with the sbox gcc 3.4.4 too... | 22:53 |
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| derf | For convenience, I also get different behavior if I pass -g or not. | 22:53 |
| jott | it's relatively stable with -O0 :) | 22:54 |
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| derf | It's relatively stable if I don't run it, too. | 22:55 |
| jott | even more then. | 22:55 |
| derf | And about as useful. | 22:55 |
| jott | even more then. | 22:55 |
| jott | :) | 22:55 |
| ShadowJK | and remember, "Just because it's valid C doesn't mean gcc will compile it", gcc developer quoted from memory :) | 22:58 |
| derf | I mean, that is not a complicatd construct. | 22:58 |
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| timelyx | ShadowJK: nice | 22:59 |
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| lcuk_busy | derf, i gather it works fine when you run without optimizations | 23:02 |
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| derf | lcuk_busy: Yes. | 23:05 |
| derf | I give up. | 23:05 |
| derf | If I add a printf in one function, it changes a result that gets computed earlier in a completely different function. | 23:05 |
| lcuk_busy | just leave it in broken lines - its an odd edge case relating to optimization | 23:06 |
| derf | lcuk_busy: If that was the _only_ segfault I was getting, I would. | 23:06 |
| derf | I can't even diagnose the next one. | 23:06 |
| lcuk_busy | ahhh | 23:06 |
| t_s_o | something tells me that nokia should have just taken one of their phones, slapped a display across its whole front and gotten opera mini running on it. at least then we would not have the numbers that want the tablet to be a "phone"... | 23:06 |
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| mavhc | it's got a speaker and a microphone and a radio, it is a phone | 23:07 |
| derf | I wonder how hard it would be to compile gcc 4.3.2 in sb. | 23:07 |
| jott | derf: there is a ready package. | 23:08 |
| timelyx | derf: compiler tool chain upgrades are a real nightmare | 23:08 |
| derf | jott: Genius. | 23:08 |
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| derf | timelyx: As opposed to crashes that vanish when I try to debug them? | 23:08 |
| jott | derf: http://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/stable/main/binary-i386/ | 23:08 |
| lcuk_busy | quantum effects - the lhc has gone live | 23:09 |
| derf | jott: I don't care about i386. | 23:09 |
| jott | (not sure if it's 4.3.2 but it's a 4.x) | 23:09 |
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| timelyx | derf: um | 23:09 |
| * timelyx ponders | 23:09 | |
| timelyx | "maybe" | 23:09 |
| jott | derf: it's cross-compiling :) | 23:09 |
| timelyx | the browser/flash team have hit a bunch of gcc induced bugs | 23:09 |
| jott | derf: your sbox gcc is x86. | 23:09 |
| timelyx | i'd rather upgrade | 23:09 |
| timelyx | but i do sympathize w/ the people who chose not to | 23:09 |
| jott | (thus those packages have to be installed on your host) | 23:10 |
| timelyx | it isn't quite "the devil you do know is better than the devil you don't" | 23:10 |
| derf | I mean, I understand the ARM side gets a lot less use than x86, but this is fairly ridiculous. | 23:10 |
| timelyx | but in practice any change incurs risk | 23:10 |
| timelyx | and nokia is fairly risk averse :) | 23:10 |
| lcuk_busy | derf, simpler - try an alternative optimization type ;) | 23:10 |
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| timelyx | -Oz | 23:10 |
| timelyx | -Os | 23:10 |
| lcuk_busy | i use O3 | 23:10 |
| timelyx | gah | 23:11 |
| timelyx | please don | 23:11 |
| timelyx | t :) | 23:11 |
| jott | or manually pick the optimization flags until it fails :) | 23:11 |
| timelyx | O3 introduces things which violate contracts | 23:11 |
| timelyx | like alignment rules | 23:11 |
| timelyx | gcc knowingly generates bad code | 23:11 |
| timelyx | and doesn't seem to care | 23:11 |
| lcuk_busy | it seems to work for me :) | 23:11 |
| timelyx | (anyone interested in arguing is welcome to volunteer to fix the bug, i'll gladly share) | 23:11 |
| * lcuk_busy doesnt have random odd crashes unless he explicitely codes them in | 23:11 | |
| lcuk_busy | im good at making spectacular crashes | 23:12 |
| timelyx | lcuk_busy: you also must have a small app | 23:12 |
| lcuk_busy | but you lot don't see most of them ;) | 23:12 |
| timelyx | we have a number of really sucky gcc induced crashes | 23:12 |
| derf | It now crashes under: -Os, -O1, -O2, -O3, and without optimization. | 23:12 |
| lcuk_busy | timelyx, then you have other problems | 23:12 |
| derf | Note that it behaves differently under several of them. | 23:12 |
| lcuk_busy | just reboot your machine and try agian | 23:12 |
| jott | derf: unoptimize your code *scnr* | 23:12 |
| derf | jott: I would if I had _any_ idea where the problem was! | 23:13 |
| jott | gcc 3.4.4 seems to me the problem :( | 23:13 |
| derf | But if I add a printf before the place it crashes, it gets a different value somewhere earlier and then doesn't take that code path. | 23:13 |
| derf | And crashes somewhere else. | 23:13 |
| jott | derf: just install the cs2007q3 toolchain and see if it works. | 23:13 |
| lcuk_busy | you sound like you have screwed your stack up | 23:13 |
| derf | lcuk_busy: I wouldn't doubt it. | 23:14 |
| derf | I am, however, not the one managing the stack. | 23:14 |
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| derf | That is gcc's job. | 23:14 |
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| derf | I mean, unlike the other one, this could in theory be an actual bug. But if I can't find it, that doesn't do me any good. | 23:15 |
| lcuk_busy | i only get wierd shit like this when i dont do a clean clean; make after ive been screwing with the structs | 23:15 |
| lcuk_busy | make^ | 23:15 |
| derf | lcuk_busy: Makefile rebuilds _everything_ if I change the Makefile. | 23:15 |
| derf | Which I've been doing repeatedly to change the optimization flags. | 23:16 |
| lcuk_busy | ahhhh (can you share the method you are using to do that, it saves me a cmd) | 23:16 |
| derf | # Make everything depend on changes in the Makefile | 23:17 |
| derf | ${ALL_ASM} ${ALL_OBJS} ${ALL_DEPS} ${ALL_TARGETS} : Makefile | 23:17 |
| lcuk_busy | cool, thanks | 23:18 |
| timelyx | lcuk_busy: ping | 23:21 |
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| timelyx | do you have sp-* on your device? | 23:21 |
| lcuk_busy | sp-? | 23:21 |
| timelyx | open xterm, type sp-<tab> :) | 23:21 |
| timelyx | there are something like 20 or so sp-/sp_ apps | 23:22 |
| lcuk_busy | no, what are they | 23:22 |
| * qwerty12-N800 only has sp-oops-extract | 23:22 | |
| timelyx | i'm looking for a couple of them but don't remember their names | 23:22 |
| timelyx | um, can you apt-cache search for the others? :) | 23:22 |
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| lcuk_busy | timelyx, ive only got dsp* and xsp* stuff, what are they and why do i need to search for em? | 23:24 |
| qwerty12-N800 | timeless: sure, a sec | 23:24 |
| timelyx | lcuk_busy: well, i only need one person, you were alive :) | 23:25 |
| timelyx | but they're helpful apps :) | 23:25 |
| lcuk_busy | barely | 23:25 |
| lcuk_busy | ill bblater on | 23:26 |
| qwerty12-N800 | pastebin not loading... | 23:26 |
| timelyx | pastebin.mozilla.org :) | 23:26 |
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| qwerty12-N800 | http://slexy.org/view/s23beG9d8o | 23:28 |
| timelyx | thanks, i was looking for sp-mem* and sp-smaps* | 23:29 |
| timelyx | if you care about stuff, i'd suggest you grab em all :) | 23:29 |
| timelyx | would someone please rekill https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3705 | 23:30 |
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| * timelyx sighs | 23:31 | |
| qwerty12-N800 | sorry, I voted. but how did RST38h run microb w/out browserd? | 23:32 |
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| timelyx | you just kill -9 it | 23:33 |
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| qwerty12-N800 | thanks | 23:33 |
| timelyx | afaik he meant w/o it being running not w/o using it | 23:35 |
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| timelyx | the browser-ui we ship doesn't support in process browser | 23:35 |
| timelyx | and since it's closed source, there's not much of a choice :) | 23:35 |
| timelyx | Jaffa/GeneralAntilles: ping | 23:38 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: I killed browserd and started microb | 23:43 |
| RST38h | qwerty: So it had to start browserd and then itself | 23:43 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: I killed browserd and started microb | 23:44 |
| timelyx | RST38h: to be clear, you aren't luarvique@gmail.com right? | 23:44 |
| RST38h | qwerty: So it had to start browserd and then itself | 23:44 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: That took 2 extra seconds! | 23:44 |
| RST38h | timelyx: I am | 23:44 |
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| timelyx | RST38h: get this clear now. i will disable your account and my own if you reopen this bug again | 23:44 |
| timelyx | crystal? | 23:44 |
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| timelyx | you're violating the trust that a bug system is supposed to engender | 23:45 |
| Fatal | for the rest of us, what's wrong with the bug linked above? | 23:45 |
| qwerty12_N800 | RST38h: interesting :), on my device, I have to start browserd manually if i killed it | 23:45 |
| timelyx | and you're pissing off one of the very few engineers who is trying to increase interaction | 23:45 |
| RST38h | timelyx: Mmmm... I will leave your ultimatum without comment but WILL make a mental note about you. Thanks. | 23:46 |
| RST38h | qwerty: There are two copies | 23:46 |
| RST38h | qwerty: The little 2MB one you do not kill - it is responsible for restarting the large 11MB copy | 23:46 |
| Fatal | timelyx: is it the reason that it's a "collection" report, that it summarizes and extends on existing bugs? | 23:46 |
| timelyx | Fatal: reload. | 23:46 |
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| Fatal | will do | 23:47 |
| qwerty12_N800 | RST38h: I see | 23:47 |
| timelyx | any additional comments and i'll just ban myself from this irc channel and the bug system | 23:47 |
| timelyx | and probably find a new job | 23:47 |
| timelyx | i don't need this aggravation | 23:47 |
| timelyx | clear? | 23:47 |
| timelyx | i hear that opensolaris is welcoming | 23:48 |
| Fatal | right, valid points, albeit a bit temperd, but I see where you're coming from | 23:48 |
| timelyx | sorry you guys pissed me off on my day of rest | 23:48 |
| mavhc | why does it take 2MBs of code to start some more code? | 23:48 |
| timelyx | mavhc: eh? | 23:48 |
| timelyx | there are two parts to the daemon | 23:48 |
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| timelyx | one is responsible for creating daemons for individual clients | 23:49 |
| timelyx | there are actually multiple clients on the device | 23:49 |
| timelyx | the tablet-tutorial iirc is a client | 23:49 |
| qwerty12_N800 | yeah, it uses the flash plugin from the browser | 23:49 |
| Fatal | timelyx: I doubt you have the best of positions hanging in the middle (and no, I haven't read up on current affairs). You have my sympathies, how little they may mean. | 23:49 |
| timelyx | http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/139/ | 23:50 |
| timelyx | Fatal: for reference, 139 iirc is my sign off from maemo-devel | 23:50 |
| timelyx | well really | 23:50 |
| timelyx | http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/140/ | 23:50 |
| timelyx | anyway, the tiny daemon was another design choice | 23:51 |
| timelyx | it doesn't cost much and it's probably mirrored after the design used by maemo-launcher | 23:51 |
| timelyx | which people are willing to tolerate | 23:51 |
| timelyx | fwiw, in looking around, QTopia has a similar daemon approach | 23:51 |
| timelyx | where it basically preforks | 23:51 |
| timelyx | it's a standard technique | 23:51 |
| timelyx | and the state of browsers is that you will want the browser out of the ui process | 23:52 |
| timelyx | we were actually late to that party | 23:52 |
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| RST38h | This technique causes problems. | 23:52 |
| timelyx | RST38h: shut up | 23:52 |
| RST38h | Nobody really cares how well it works in Chrome, QTopia, or any other browser. | 23:52 |
| RST38h | It causes problems in Maemo. | 23:53 |
| timelyx | QSSL (QNX, voyager_server/opera_server/mozilla_server) was there in 2000 or earlier | 23:53 |
| timelyx | and their impl just worked | 23:53 |
| timelyx | you never heard complaints | 23:53 |
| ssvb | RST38h: why do you think that it causes problems? | 23:53 |
| timelyx | except for maybe that you could only use one engine at a time | 23:53 |
| timelyx | RST38h: if the OS and browser ui don't let you do something about busy apps | 23:54 |
| timelyx | then those are bugs | 23:54 |
| RST38h | ssvv: It i all described in https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3705 | 23:54 |
| timelyx | and they need to be fixed <period> | 23:54 |
| Fatal | timelyx: again, my deepest sympathies. It's hard enough to justify design/process desicions in a closed source enviroment with sales and support personell breathing down your neck, and in a semi open community such as this, I bet it attracts alot of flaming and useless repetivness. | 23:54 |
| RST38h | ssvv: A bug that timelyx labeled as invalid and told me to shut up | 23:54 |
| timelyx | Fatal: i've dealt w/ sales | 23:54 |
| timelyx | they're much friendlier | 23:55 |
| timelyx | give me sales any day | 23:55 |
| ssvb | RST38h: but this bugreport does indeed look invalid... | 23:55 |
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| Fatal | I wouldn't wish the sales dept at my job on anyone :) | 23:55 |
| RST38h | ssvb: It links to two other bug reports, do check those | 23:55 |
| RST38h | ssvb: And one of the commenters links to 3 other bug reports | 23:55 |
| timelyx | Fatal: yeah, i know the feeling | 23:56 |
| ssvb | RST38h: the other bugs do not seem related to this client/server daemon design | 23:56 |
| RST38h | ssvb: they in fact are | 23:56 |
| RST38h | ssvb: They mention problems restarting browserd when it accidentally dies | 23:57 |
| ssvb | RST38h: so what? | 23:57 |
| RST38h | ssvb: Problems killing browserd when it hangs up. Problems losing memory shared between server and clients | 23:57 |
| RST38h | ssvb: If not for the current client/server design, these problems would not be there | 23:58 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: timelyx makes a valid point there, though: a problem restarting browserd doesn't indicate a fundamental design flaw; it indicates a bug. | 23:58 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: fundamental design flaw is a bit different here | 23:58 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Basically, if you have got something as large, resource hungry, and crash prone as a web browser, you do not make it a background process | 23:59 |
| ssvb | RST38h: keeping some unreliable part of program in an easily killable/restartable separate process is a design that improves reliability | 23:59 |
| Jaffa | Now, I'm not sure *I'd've* designed it like this, or that this is the ideal solution to platform UI specification requirement for <5s load and other things; but it is a way of solving it, and therefore a valid design in that sense. | 23:59 |
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