IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2008-09-12

lardmandrat, I knew there was something I was supposed to do!00:02
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lcukjaffa, for you it might be, but gimme your CC details and i will get you one or two knocked up for you00:10
lcuklardman, i spent about half hour yesterday trying to remember what i had to do, and it was tshirts as well - though ive got about 10billion other more important things to do00:11
lardmanyeah, same here00:11
lardmanI'm away tomorrow & Saturday, so running out of time00:12
lcuki will still feel guilty if i havent completed my personal goals, but since all dev work on this platform is homework theres no true rush00:12
lcukie - ppl can see a work in progress and if its liked i can develop it further in the daytime, if not, i can develop it further (and slower) in the evening :)00:13
lardmansame, I had hoped to get dsp-mp3 workable, but have to can that for the time being and finish my presentations00:13
lcukim hoping to present directly from 810 but thats looking less likely - i might have to make do with a couple of movies with it00:14
lcukat least im taking my laptop this time - i know what to expect ;)00:14
lardmanlol, I won't bring a powerpoint presentation this time :)00:14
Alystairok looks like the 770 is working fine now, where do I download dependencies from?00:15
AlystairI want to get Python on this baby and start developing cool stuff00:15
lcukwell i had an open office presentation on a mem stick00:15
lcukAlystair, download dependencies? like children and wives and stuff?00:15
lardmanAlystair: Extras probably00:15
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lardmanAlystair: though for a 770 there are lots of external repos too, before most stuff got pushed into Extras00:16
lcukAlystair, it depends which os version you are using, but gronmayer may help better than a single specific one00:16
Alystairwell it's mainly libraries, and I don't see them in the extras list00:16
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lcukits only recently that everything came together under one roof00:16
lcukthey have a searchable list of repos and packages :)00:17
lardmanYou may also need to install the scratchbox dev repo00:17
lardmanis that on there?00:17
lcukis what on there?00:17
lardmanhat, cat00:17
lcuksat, mat00:18
lardmanno, dev repo on Gronmayer00:18
* lcuk didnt know he was talkin to jacob :P00:18
lardmanI'll have you executed00:18
lcukoh yer, u are the god now00:18
lardmanI'll talk to FieldMarshalAntilles about raising an army00:18
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lcukis this weekend work related or military wedding planning?00:19
* lcuk needs a new chair :S im on the wonk00:20
lardmanSomeone else's Wedding tomorrow, then a Christening on Sat00:20
lcuknice, but no chance to take your device to play00:21
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lcukfriday has become the new saturday for weddings00:21
lcukwhich day is yours on?00:21
lardmanNo, going to be pretty busy I fear, lots of drinking mind you, but doesn't help the 2 presentations I;ve got to do for next week00:21
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lcukmake notes on the hotel mirror00:21
lardmanlcuk: looking like the 30th of May, not firm yet though00:21
lcuktake phots and transcribe when you get home00:22
lcukhope the weather is kind to you, which day is that though - have you managed to get a saturday or has it been pushed back00:23
* lcuk was at a friday wedding a couple of weeks ago00:23
lardmansaturday at the moment00:23
lardmanFirday weddings are ok, better than Sunday for the attendees anyway00:23
lardmanand sod it, they've got long enough to take a day off ;)00:23
lardmanI hate tables in powerpoint, why are they so crappy?00:24
Alystairso many repos D:00:25
mavhcisn't everything in powerpoint crappy? I'm sure it, along with publisher are some kind of elaborate practical joke00:25
lardmanyeah, not far from the truth, I was meaning why are they so much crappier than the ones in M$ Word00:26
derflardman: If it makes you feel any better, OOo simply doesn't have tables in impress.00:27
derf(Or at least not until 3.0, which isn't out yet)00:27
lardmanfair enough, I won't bother trying to write it in that then :)00:27
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derfWhat I have to do is make them in Writer, and then cut and paste them into Impress.00:28
lardmanthough as I'm running MATLAB code on the side to generate graphs for the other conference that might be hard anyway :)00:28
* Jaffa hasn't even started on his presentation yet.00:28
derfWhich works, except that Impress fucks up the formatting something awful.00:28
JaffaAnd now we've got the council one to think about00:28
derfs/formatting/aspect ratio00:28
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* jott sticks with latex beamer :)00:29
derfWhy are Matlab-generated graphs hard?00:29
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lardmanhard to do running Linux00:29
lardmanwas what I meant00:29
derfMatlab runs just fine in Linux.00:29
lardmannot my version though, though I just realised oo works in Windows too00:30
lardmanignore me00:30
derfYeah, okay.00:30
derfCode for complete parsing of QR codes is done.00:30
derfTotally untested, though.00:30
derfAnd I still need to stick on the glue for converting character encodings and joining multiple pieces together.00:31
lopzhelp me, how use flash memory (kignston 2 GB) in n800 ?00:32
lardmanWhere's qwerty when you want him?00:32
lopzI can not access the flash memory: s00:33
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lopzmy conector make to me00:34
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lopzkeesj, for keyborad ?00:38
KegetysN810 does00:39
lardmankeesj: no00:39
KegetysI would guess that N800 does too00:39
lardmankeesj: lol00:39
keesj+ connector looks wrong to me00:39
lardmankeesj: I was wondering why you were asking that (or not), /me goes back to presentation rather than half reading replies :)00:39
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lopzkeesj, my connector ?00:40
keesjlardman: felicitations with the election results00:40
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lopzkeesj, Like needs energy for an external USB keyboard?00:41
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lardmankeesj: thank you :)00:41
Alystairis there an app for the 770 that changes display settings based on the power being plugged in?00:41
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Alystairalso, something for better battery status00:41
Kegetysit provides 300mA or something like that, should be enough for any normal keyboard00:41
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keesjlopz: yes , need energy00:43
keesjKegetys: really?00:43
Kegetyskeesj: yes00:43
lopzas I read in a log that need only plug and play, it will work?00:43
keesjI knew the n810 worked00:44
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keesjlopz: i guess you need to cross the two external ones + and _ to make it work then00:51
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keesjno even , just full 18000:55
lopzkeesj, ok, thanks00:56
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JaffaDoes anyone know of a black-background logo apart from glaoliver's original submission?01:02
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zapAnybody is working on pushing stardict to autobuilder? It seems a easy task01:03
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* Jaffa gimps one up & goes to bed01:09
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lopzkeesj, but in this videotutorial NOT use external power, How?01:23
lopzI need to buy a USB keyboard, but do not buy if you need external power, I'm confused, as being: S01:24
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eleanor-1i got a nokia 77001:52
eleanor-1i would to use a client sip01:53
eleanor-1that give me the possibility to phone01:53
eleanor-1for free and zero payment01:54
eleanor-1i used too gizmo, but asks money01:54
eleanor-1is there something about ?01:55
dystopiaskype is another option01:55
dystopiaalso costs money though01:55
eleanor-1have you ever thinked to work with the big Maestro Kevin David Mitnick ?01:56
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dystopia here is thread01:56
dystopiaGoogle Talk might work too01:57
eleanor-1i must to put in charge the nokia01:57
eleanor-1bye bye01:57
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eleanor-1good night to all01:58
dystopiaosservi là01:58
dystopiaciao bella01:58
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X3Nhello maemoers02:15
lopzkeesj, and functions! I made the wrong connector was upside down, and do not require external power:)02:15
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X3NI'm just wondering if getting a large SD card like 8/16/32GB will kill battery life ?02:19
X3Non an N80002:20
X3Ngood :)02:20
elektusing a 16 gb one02:22
elekt+ another 8gb one02:22
elektthey got cheap02:22
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X3Nyeah, just noticed they're quite nicely priced now02:23
X3Nwhich brand would you recommend02:24
elekti don't think it matters as long as it's sdhc02:25
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elekti don't think the speed matters either02:27
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elektgo cheap and big ;)02:27
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t_s_ospeed only really matters with media, as to slow a card can make it hard to refill the buffer in time02:35
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n800mdamn you jean peer02:39
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elek[t]buffer, hm?02:39
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t_s_oor whatever, buffer, cache, call it what you like...02:45
X3NI call it cheese02:46
GeneralAntillesI still need somebody to flesh out apt and dpkg usage02:53
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mikkov_something about commin application manager errors would be nice02:57
GeneralAntilles== Troubleshooting ==02:57
GeneralAntillesFeel free to start the section. ;)02:57
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mikkov_maybe "do not install applications outside extras repository" would be enough02:59
t_s_oGeneralAntilles: maybe another entry to add to your wiki article on fixing the app manager, the chance to see the real error messages from apt?03:00
GeneralAntillest_s_o, m-vo is very well aware of how much the error reporting sucks.03:00
blackdeathdose any one know how to change the boot menu text?03:00
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GeneralAntillesI may get around to adding a section, but it's definitely not something they're not thinking about.03:00
t_s_onice to know03:01
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dystopiahee guaka!!03:03
GeneralAntillesHrm, anybody up for grabbing a list of h-a-m's common error messages?03:03
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GeneralAntillesAnybody remember the exact text of Application manager's "your internal card is corrupt, I'm going to sit here and pout" error message?03:07
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brontidehow do I find out what package owns a file?03:10
X3Ndpk -S packagename ?03:11
brontideI have a file03:11
X3Ner dpkg even03:11
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X3Ncheck the file against the output of dpkg -S ?03:11
brontidedpkg -S pattern(file)03:12
brontidelooks like osso-af-utils is the offending package03:13
brontidecheck out      ls -al /usr/share/icons/xcursor-transparent/03:14
brontidelinking to your parent is probably not the best of ideas03:16
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GeneralAntillesThe wiki has reached Downloads speeds. . . .03:24
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* brontide thinks the grass grows faster than wiki's download speeds03:26
brontidewhere were those servers03:26
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GeneralAntillesStill being worked on03:27
GeneralAntillesThey did a database dump for testing today.03:27
brontideIt's just painful at times03:28
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brontideIt's been 2 minutes and browser is still "connected" but no page data yet03:28
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lardmanlol, I'm thinking the same about my uni connection and it's streaming at a good 42kB/s03:32
lardmannot long ago that would have been pretty impressive03:33
GeneralAntillesI'm not even sure the text I was planning on pasting into the damn article is still in the clipboard.03:33
brontideYeah.. I was annoyed that I was only getting 80mbps down to my laptop the other day on a 100mbps connection03:33
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, we told you to stop running a quake server on there.03:34
GeneralAntillesDon't make me get out the cattle prod.03:34
lardmanor at least tell us the password so we can come play03:34
* GeneralAntilles is still hoping for some tablet-only Quake deathmatches.03:34
lardmanthey're probably playing using opengl quake on N810s and laughing at us03:34
GeneralAntilles'course, somebody's just gonna use a mouse and keyboard and ruin all the run.03:35
lardmanOr a Core Duo Quad...03:35
lardmanor Core Quad, whatever they call them now :S03:35
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lardmanbed time, 24 slides down, more to go tomorrow03:36
t_s_ohmm, quad damage ;)03:36
lardmannight all03:36
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GeneralAntillesquad glaser!03:36
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oilinki3hmm. who is etrunko?03:56
GAN800Canola guy03:59
oilinki3ah. thanks. that was a very good way to describe :)04:01
rm_youlol lardman (lardman|gone), at my uni I get 6Mb/s down :P04:01
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oilinki3and good morning04:07
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gregoroviuswhere do I get the flasher for linux?04:22
gregoroviusI can't find it in
gregoroviushm, nevermind, found it04:23
mdgAnyone used an A4tech wireless keyboard with the 770?04:23
infobotwell, flashing is
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mdgIs there is a difference between bluetooth and wireless - or what is the difference?04:38
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GAN800wireless == wifi?04:39
mdgso a keyboard described as "RF" is ???04:40
johnxsomething else :)04:40
johnxsome random protocol that only works with their included adapter04:40
mdgnot bluetooth and not wifi?04:40
johnxsomething else04:40
GAN800Which means it has a USB dongle.04:40
mdgOh, so it won't work with Nokia 770, right?04:41
mdgAnyone here have luck with VPN and their Nokia 770?04:42
johnxdid you just buy one?04:42
mdgno johnx, just looking - price is pretty cheap04:42
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johnxjust find a bluetooth keyboard. they're not that expensive last time I checked04:42
mdgokay, will have to do that.04:43
johnxyou should be able to find one for $30-$40 if you look04:44
mdgjohnx, any recommendations as far as brand, besides apple04:44
johnxI don't have one04:44
mdgoh okay04:44
johnxI hear the palm and igo ones are good04:44
johnxn800+usb keyboard here04:45
mdgany tips on how to scroll down directories in Midnight Command04:45
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mdgigo?  Haven't heard of that before04:45
johnxthey make (made) the stowaway and sierra IIRC04:46
mdgany major stores that carry igo?04:46
johnxnot anymore04:46
johnxit's discontinued04:47
rm_youwhich one did I use again?04:47
johnxyou'll have to look online04:47
* rm_you looks04:47
mdgokay, will do04:47
johnxrm_you, the stowaway I think04:47
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gregoroviusis there a new version of ogg-support out?04:47
rm_youah. ThinkOutside stowaway04:48
rm_yougregorovius: i think i saw an announcement somewhere about an updated version for diablo, yes04:48
gregoroviusI saw a post on ITT but I can't find it anywhere04:48
gregoroviusoh, I'll take a look at planet, thanks04:48
mdgIs it easier to get python 2.5 setup in hackeros2007 than regular 2006?04:49
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mdgWhat would I have to do to setup by Apple keyboard (once I get it)?05:01
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mdgjust pair it as per instructions in nokia manual?  No special setup for the keyboard itself?05:04
rm_youput the keyboard in pairing mode... open the control panel of the 770, go to bluetooth, and add device05:04
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mdgdoes anyone use more than one bluetooth device at a time - say keyboard and headset?05:04
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mdgDoes Mac keyboards use regular batteries or do I have to buy something special?05:06
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mdgThanks rm_you for the good advice - I can't wait to go pick one up!05:08
mdgNow if I can just get windows to flash the updated os I will be totally set and happy!05:08
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mdgGoodnight all!05:24
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* johnx heads off for the long weekend05:29
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rm_youhrm. just shot an email to Quim asking for verification that I'm actually even registered for OSiM :P05:35
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rm_yousince no one ever really told me if I was or not. I had my name on the arrivals list well before the deadline, but... yeah. We'll see. I hope I am. :)05:36
rm_youOn the bright side, at least if I'm not, I have a couple days to see the city :)05:36
GeneralAntillesNo Ari keynote for you!05:38
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rm_youi actually assume I am registered, it's just that no one ever actually explicitly told me05:42
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brontidesafari + "" = FAIL06:02
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brontidewoah.. "The developer session on Thursday 18 will have more than what is explained in the program, based on what Ari Jaaksi will present on Wed 17. Erkko Antila (Fremantle product manager), Quim Gil (OSS marketing manager) and Niels Breet ( webmaster) will share the schedule to discuss software offering, development platform and Maemo community. "06:34
brontideit's on the maemo wiki of all places.. I was checking the wifi situation and my eyes crossed that06:36
GeneralAntillesPeter mentioned that the Maemo booth might need some backup after Ari's talk on baloo's blog.06:37
rm_youare they going to announce some CRAZY SHIT?! :P06:39
brontideShort of Nokia saying it Fremantle software and hardware will be shown if not fondled.  Also indicates the new SDK *might* be realy06:40
vegaiMaemo 2009 will be based on Windows Vista?06:40
vegaiseriously though.06:42
brontideCrazy would be 200 dev units :-P06:42
vegaibriand: by new SDK, would it probably be just an updated version of the current thing06:42
vegaior something a new thing?06:42
vegaii.e. evolutionary or revolutionary?06:42
brontideOh... just reinstalled and there is a LOT of crap in extras that I don't think should be in the listings... one even said it was for scratchbox06:43
GeneralAntillesMaemo 506:43
brontideevolutionary, expect more polish on existing upstream and critical system items06:43
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brontideand new hardware... but the hardware will probably not drift too far from the n8x0 form factor and beagle board reference platform06:44
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ricko73is there a good twitter app for the n810?06:47
vegaithe hardware seems to be fine06:48
vegaiit's the software part that is disappointing06:48
brontidemitter? ( I don't use twitter )06:48
brontidevegai: I'm not expecting anything revolutionary.06:48
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ricko73I just signed up for an account06:49
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brontidewe are still talking gtk/qt/linux not apple/iphone06:49
GeneralAntillesvegai, the hardware is _not_ fine.06:50
GeneralAntillesLCD controller is all messed up06:50
brontideyeah, even a slight change to the hardware will make it MUCH more media friendly06:50
brontide800x480 screen, but no bandwidth to get the buffers to the LCD fast enough06:51
brontide3d hardware for, if nothing else, Xserver compsiting06:51
brontidecurrent hardware spends far too much time drawing every pixel and moving them to the LCD06:52
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RST38hbrontide: afaik it was the last minute decision by nokia07:22
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Alystairso uh, how do I uninstall apps on a nokia tablet07:34
* Alystair asks really really dumb questions sometimes07:38
Alystairthat wasn't worth answering07:38
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vegaiGeneralAntilles: ok, but the software problems are far worse08:13
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vegaidoesn't it already have 3d hardware? Just the driver missing08:13
GeneralAntillesBut it's not really up for compositing08:13
GeneralAntillesBesides, newer hardware solves a lot of the software issues08:14
GeneralAntillesFaster CPU == better application start times, more fluid interface, etc.08:14
GeneralAntillesThe new LCD interface means much better redraw times.08:15
kulveyou need quite many layers on top of 3d hardware to be able to use it in your (x) application08:16
kulvekernel driver, open gl es stack, egl (or something) for X08:16
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Khertan_n810Hi !09:03
Khertan_n810morning Stskeeps09:04
* Khertan_n810 see that the first example of python magazine is free09:05
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Khertan_n810and they explain how to make a custom cairo widget09:05
Khertan_n810could be a good things to draw my own view for mCalendar09:06
gregoroviuskulve: I just installed ogg-support 0.8 in my freshly-flashed n800, and all oggs are appearing under '(unknown artist)'09:06
Khertan_n810héhé it s ogg ... open source ...09:07
Khertan_n810so there isn t really artist09:08
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* Khertan_n810 see the diff of perf of the autobuilder, it s clear that x-fade is no more in vacancies09:09
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gregorovius_oh, nevermind, I found the bug09:13
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kulvegregorovius: yeah, tags are buggy and I don't know (yet) why09:22
kulvegregorovius: I get something like 5% of the tags, so they *are* working, it's just buggy..09:22
kulvegregorovius: it might be that the bug is in ogg/gst libs I provide and not in the Nokia components..09:23
gregorovius_hope it gets sorted out somehow09:25
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Khertan_n810no one have make a google public calendar with the summikt program ?09:27
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Alystairwhat's the default password on the 770?09:32
Alystairfor the device lock09:33
Khertan_n810i like the pad09:33
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Alystairhrm 1234509:34
RST38hKhertan: Windows CE09:34
RST38hfuck it.09:34
Dasajev64MB of RAM...09:34
RST38h(and a 480x272 screen too)09:34
Khertan_n810yep just talking of the pad09:35
Khertan_n810the rest sucks09:35
Dasajevthe pad looks nice indeed09:35
Alystairchrist I promised myself I'd only get the 770 to develop stuff and now the 810 looks really tempting :|09:35
Alystairas a purely personal device09:35
Khertan_n810only the pad is interersting in this thing09:36
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Khertan_n810a creative internet tablet ?09:43
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RST38hHere. Pray.09:48
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DekaritaeKhertan_n810: Looks like a tabletkiosk09:49
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Khertan_n810Dekaritae: yep or an larger 770 :)09:49
kulveAlystair: what kind of stuff you want to develop on 770?09:49
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DekaritaeActually, it looks more like a Samsung Q1B09:51
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Khertan_n810RST38h: the first  collision is planned for december09:51
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gregoroviusis there a digital clock for the statusbar that only takes up 1 slot?09:52
GeneralAntillesIt's in Extras09:52
GeneralAntillesStatus Bar Clock09:52
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Khertan_n810i ve just uploaded cairo clock to extras devel : an home desktop clock applet09:53
RST38hKhertan: it warped time.09:53
gregoroviusI installed that and it was an analog clock, unless i missed a setting somewhere09:53
sebasYay, a new clock :-)09:53
ShadowJKstatus bar is full :(09:53
Alystairare there any advantages to using hacker OS versions on the 770?09:53
RST38hAnd what do you mean "by december"? Do they intend to end the world on a neat calendar date like Dec 31? =)09:54
Khertan_n810gregorious : yep analog09:54
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Alystairthe time-zone settings on the 770 really really piss me off09:54
Alystairwhy are they listed by city and not country09:54
gregoroviusi'm looking for a digital clock, I can't read a analog clock that small09:54
Khertan_n810RST3e8h: in mid december they will made the first collision09:54
GeneralAntillesgregorovius, switch the mode in the Clock application.09:54
RST38hChristmas then!09:55
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, do you have advanced backlight installed?09:55
RST38hor maybe even Hanukkah? =)09:55
gregoroviusGeneralAntilles: thanks, that was counterintuitive09:55
Alystairadvanced backlight? Is that similar to ACmonitor?09:55
GeneralAntillesAlystair, no.09:56
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* Khertan_n810 never change backlight settting09:56
Khertan_n810always to full :)09:56
Khertan_n810the sensor is good to manage it :)09:56
Alystairah stuff I can't use lol09:57
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GeneralAntillesKhertan_n810, kills battery life.09:59
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Khertan_n810GeneralAntilles: long enough for me10:03
Khertan_n810i use mainly bt10:04
Khertan_n810less drain battery than wifi10:04
GeneralAntillesOnly by a little.10:04
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rmrfchikam I right, current mplayer plays bad video with faad codec?10:04
Khertan_n810yep only a little10:04
rmrfchikmeanwhile, a built-in media playes do it good10:05
Khertan_n810faad codec10:05
rmrfchikhm. sec...10:05
rmrfchik[faad] AAC (MPEG2/310:06
rmrfchikthis is a part of output10:06
Khertan_n810funny to see that when i add percent of all process i can see in a top is around 600%10:06
Khertan_n810mpeg2 play fine  in mplayer10:07
rmrfchikmoreover, [faad] afm: faad (FAAD AAC10:07
Khertan_n810aac is for audio10:07
rmrfchikah, sure, I'm talking about audio, sorry not say it.10:08
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* Khertan_n810 connection will drop entering in subway10:09
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JaffaMorning, all10:14
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X-FadeAbout the council blog. I think we can create and give the council members rights to post messages there.10:16
X-FadeWe can use that rss in the news section too.10:17
tekojoX-Fade sounds good10:17
X-FadeAnd see if we can point an url to that a bit later.10:17
tekojoNeed to think about that, but I guess it could be done10:17
tekojobut don't take that as a promise10:18
JaffaX-Fade: cool, sounds like what we need10:18
X-Fadetekojo: yeah, I'm worried about adding ssl etc for yet another domain..10:18
GAN800Not real important10:18
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JaffaX-Fade: may not need a domain - SSL fun, of course - or just an HTTP redirect to the full URL (a la p.m.o)10:19
GAN800Nice addon, but don't stress things if it's an issue.10:19
X-FadeJaffa: Yes, but we have https problems on that url ;)10:19
tekojomight be doable as said, but needs a check10:19
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GAN800You know, I've said it once and I'll say it again, but I wish Maemo Software would take a cue from you guys. :)10:21
tekojoGAN800: what do you mean?10:23
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GeneralAntillesWell, the team is involved, responsive, easy to get to, and easy to work with.10:24
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GeneralAntillesThey deal with their bugs, they get things done and it's not fighting on uphill battle on every single little issue.10:24
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tekojoah, that general problem10:25
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Do you think it is a good idea to create a council garage project?10:25
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: So I can use that as group and you add all members there?10:26
GeneralAntillesI don't see why not.10:26
tekojoI need some time to see what could be done to get some more connections10:26
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X-FadeOh btw, there will also be people from Nokia Legal at the summit. So prepare your questions ;)10:28
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GeneralAntillesHopefully we can get the ball rolling on wrapping up the branding stuff.10:28
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GeneralAntillesTerms of use, trademark usage, and legal disclaimers all need some examination10:29
GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to take a look at the patch licensing, too.10:29
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Can you create the project on garage?10:30
GeneralAntillesCan I fill in the descriptions later?10:32
X-FadeYes, I will approve it ;)10:32
GeneralAntillesweb form says "No"10:32
X-Fadeheh ;)10:32
X-Fade'placeholder' ;)10:33
X-FadeApproved ;)10:33
GeneralAntillesI guess the council should probably start doing sprint progress reporting.10:35
X-FadeSure, I think that is a good idea.10:36
X-FadeIt works pretty well for us.10:36
GeneralAntillesI guess the thing I'm hesitant about is overloading the sprint reviews with too much stuff.10:38
X-FadeWell, you could create your own.10:39
X-FadeBut how to combine :)10:39
GeneralAntillesYeah, that's what I'm thinking10:39
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GeneralAntillesMaybe keep the wiki-side organization mostly together10:39
aladdsdoes anyone know where i can find Xournal for my 770?10:39
aladds is down10:39
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Or make the activity log 2 columns?10:40
aladds(running 2007HE, so i need the patch, which i can find, but it needs the original!)10:40
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, that'll involve tables10:40
X-FadeBrr wiki tables.10:41
GeneralAntilleswhich means pain and suffering for people submitting progress reports10:41
GeneralAntillesI'm talking about the IRC reviews, btw.10:41
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X-FadeWell, you can do that in the same channel. Before or after ours? And be present to comment on 'our' sprint?10:42
GeneralAntillesA lot of the council issues will probably fall under "website" anyway10:42
GeneralAntillesso those can be handled in the normal IRC sprint reviews10:42
GeneralAntillesThe problematic stuff would be the Maemo Software related issues.10:43
X-FadeYeah, and the group isn't that large. So I don't think it will be bloating the meeting too much.10:43
GeneralAntillesWhich should be separate, as it involves different people.10:43
X-FadeWell, organise meetings with those guys too ;)10:43
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GeneralAntillesThose may have to be played by ear a bit.10:43
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GeneralAntillesIt's a lot of work having to build an organizational framework from the ground up. . . .10:44
Italodancesomeone has libglib ?10:45
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Italodancethank u for ur fast help10:51
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aladdsnoone knows where i can get xournal then?10:56
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aladdsah, but for os2007?11:05
* aladds only has a 77011:05
aladdssorry, i did say that when i first asked, but you might not have been here11:06
aladdsi found the patch for the os2006 version to work on os200711:06
aladdsbut i can't find the os2006 version11:06
aladds is down11:06
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Stskeepsaladds: there exists 2008HE though?11:10
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Italodanceread it and do it :)11:10
StskeepsItalodance: the apt it refers to is down..11:10
aladds2008HE doesn't work amazingly though, there're problems with the sound being really quiet11:10
aladdsbut, as Stskeeps says, the apt, is down11:11
JaffaMorning, all11:11
Italodancehi Jaffa11:12
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Stskeepsaladds: maybe11:13
X-FadeGeneralAntilles, Jaffa:  in the floating bar 'Folder' -> create article.11:13
aladdsi want armel, right?11:14
Stskeepsaladds: how hackerish are you btw?11:14
aladdshackerish enough11:14
Stskeepsaladds: if you get bored.. we're trying to make an updated environment for 77011:15
Italodancehow can i edit and remove application catalogue with x-term?11:15
JaffaX-Fade: cool11:15
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Short version, but it isn't used..11:15
GeneralAntillesAh, OK.11:15
GeneralAntillesYeah, this looks perfect, anyway.11:15
X-Fade is also in the planet now.11:16
X-FadeSo it will also show up in the news section.11:16
JaffaX-Fade: cool stuff, thanks11:17
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GeneralAntillesTime for somebody to put together an announcement, then. ;)11:17
JaffaWell volunteered ;-)11:18
aladdsright, which repository will i find libgnomecanvas, libgnomeprint(&ui) & poppler-utils?11:19
aladdsin which even11:19
GeneralAntillesJaffa, isn't Tim the marketing guy? :D11:20
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aladdsnevermind, found it11:21
JaffaGeneralAntilles: his presentation sample's better than mine. Although I found and quite liked it as a "community" theme11:22
GeneralAntillesGotta log in11:22
Jaffahang on11:22
GeneralAntillesNot bad11:23
GeneralAntillesPerhaps a little too stylized for my tastes11:23
GeneralAntillesWe need one with 5 figures. . . .11:23
GeneralAntillesHis is 6, yours is 4.11:24 rocks - takes a while to find one you like,though11:24
JaffaGeneralAntilles: indeed11:24
aladdsah, now i've found them for mistral, but are there bora versions?11:24
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jottJaffa: GeneralAntilles maybe you could make it a bit more personal by putting pictures of you up there.11:25
GeneralAntillesI've got zero decent pictures of myself.11:26
GeneralAntillesand not even a decent camera at hand to try to get one11:27
jottwe photoshop you in a group picture at the summit ;)11:27
Jaffajott: and I'm hoping if we can get a could community template for the council, I can use it for my own presentation without having to do much thinking ;-)11:27
jottor better gimp you in there.. haha11:28
Jaffa isn't great though. Simplicity will probably work best (when in doubt, copy the style your company's designer came up with ;-))11:28
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timelyxthat's actually a fairly good overview for a relatively small page11:32
Italodanceummm what's it plutoorbiter-os2008?11:33
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aladdsfor future reference, seems to be a mirror of the dead repo11:38
Stskeepsyeah, that was what i found :P11:38
aladdssomeone should wiki it11:38
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Stskeepshmm. is 770 charger same as one for n800?11:40
aladdsthink so, all nokias have used the little charger for a while now11:40
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timelyxaladds: subject to change w/o notice11:40
timelyxStskeeps: the 770,n800,n810,n810-wimax all use the mini charger jack11:41
Stskeepssounds good11:41
timelyxnote that some newer nokia phones use microb usb for charging11:41
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aladdsthat's a good point actually11:42
aladdsthe 6500 slide uses the mini jack, but the 6500 classic uses mini usb11:42
* timelyx passes around a bottle of "confusion" straight from Nokia11:43
* aladds does the "N800" update11:43
aladdsyay! :D11:44
* aladds now needs to make his handwriting smaller :P11:44
aladdsand keep it legible...11:44
liriwhen I'm working with the gps obviously I don't touch the screen regularly so the lcd light turns off, does the advanced backlight app has a feature to keep the light on constantly for a defined duration?11:44
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GeneralAntillesliri, no, but Maemo Mapper does.11:45
timelyxyeah, your gps app should do that for you11:45
lirimm, I'm using roadmap and it doesn't do that and I don't use maemo mapper so...11:45
GeneralAntillesTime to patch Roadmap11:45
lirior fire-up maemo mapper in the background? :)11:46
jott :)11:46
GeneralAntillesYou could probably just lift Maemo Mapper's method whole hog.11:46
timelyxliri: that'd be a bug11:46
timelyxa backgrounded app should *not* keep the backlight on11:46
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melmothRoadMap can now suspend display-blanking to keep the backlight on while navigating.11:47
liriI'm using a different branch of roadmap called roadmap_editor11:48
timelyxforking is bad11:48
timelyxdon't fork11:48
liriheh, you telling me? tell it to that author who forked it11:48
liriI hate the fork too11:48
GeneralAntillesfork you!11:49
melmothwell...backport the patch then.11:50
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aladdshow does the 770 manage memory?11:57
aladdsit's confusing me11:57
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aladdsas in11:57
aladdsi'd like to install gnumetic11:57
aladdsi thought i should free some space, as i remember seeing it say 75% full11:57
aladdsand 8MB or so free11:58
aladdsand gnumeric is 911:58
aladdsso i moved everything to my 2GB card11:58
aladdsnow it's saying 0% used11:58
aladdsso, how much space do i have left for applications?11:58
aladdshow do i find out?11:58
Stskeepsof the /11:59
aladdscrazy :S11:59
timelyxGeneralAntilles: sigh12:00
timelyx*forking without a license*12:00
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GeneralAntilles'morning, dneary.12:03
Alan_PeeryGood morning! I have just realised that having Spanish maps in my N810 might be really handy as I am flying there early tomorrow. Does anyone have a good link for adding maps? The only connectivity I will have is wifi at hotel, so I want to have the maps cached.12:03
dnearyListening to a hugely interesting presentation:
GeneralAntillesFor "Map" or Maemo Mapper?12:04
Alan_PeeryI like MM better...12:04
GeneralAntillesOK, switch to your favorite map repository (say, Google Street), shuffle the view on over to Spain12:05
GeneralAntillesFrame the area of Spain you want to download in the windows12:05
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GeneralAntillesGo to the menu -> Maps -> Manage Maps... and download the zoom levels you want for that area.12:06
GeneralAntillesLooks interesting, dneary. *listening*12:08
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Stskeepshrw: did you ever try emulating 770 btw?12:16
hrwStskeeps: there is no emulation of 77012:16
hrwStskeeps: 770 is obsolete toy not usable device12:16
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Stskeepshehe. i'm of the old school that says old machines are still quite useful12:17
floriangood morning12:18
JaffaJaffa Jr. is using a fairly old ThinkPad with Ubuntu and some of the Netbook Remix packages to make it more simple for a 2.5 year old.12:18
hrwStskeeps: I use older devices then 77012:18
Italodancefinally someone can help me12:18
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hrwJaffa: older then p3?12:18
Jaffahrw: I *think* it's a celery12:19
JaffaAh, no Google says a type 2656 is an R30, P3 1GHz.12:20
woglindehi florian12:20
JaffaStill damned fast compared with my old BBC B, A3010 or RiscPC.12:20
hrwJaffa: 1GHz p3 is fast machine very usable12:21
hrw770 was developer device which should not be targetted at users12:22
Jaffahrw: Indeed. Problem is it's been dropped a few times and the LCD has loads of broken rows, often in clumps of about 30 or so; with on a 768 high screen is fun.12:22
florianhrw: uh?12:23
hrwJaffa: lcd monitors are cheap now - buy one and connect as external screen?12:24
hrwflorian: thats my opinion (which was shared by some developers which used 770 since it was proto)12:25
florianJaffa: But some Netbook packages and an old Thinkpad are a good idea. My son is ~2.5 years too... and I have an old Thinkpad without a proper job ;)12:25
Jaffahrw: I've got a spare I'm using as a dual monitor setup on my desktop. We're doing a room shuffle in a few months in preparation for Jaffa Jr. 2, so'll be using one of them then12:25
florianhrw: I'm using my 770 for years without trouble...12:25
Jaffaflorian: the ume-launcher which is clutter based is too slow, but using maximus to full-screen everything, the theme and the window switcher, set firefox to launch on startup and speed dial extension to show big friendly buttons of his favourite websites (e.g.
JaffaWe were going to get him a trackball, but he's getting the hang of a mouse now (was dragging stuff yesterday to do a Flash jigsaw on the cbeebies site)12:26
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hrwflorian: sure, there are things which 770 is able to do but many of them can also be handled by cellphone today12:27
* Jaffa had to get the Flash 10 beta for the Flash video sites he uses to work, though. 9 was just too slow at refreshing :-(12:28
florianUSB devices and an USB plug are a nece toy as well ;)12:28
florianeh nice12:28
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murraycAargh, is down just as I want to see the acommodation page for the summit.12:41
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Jaffamurrayc: doh12:49
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RST38h:((( is already taken =(((12:52
RST38hAnother brilliant business idea bites the dust! =)12:52
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lcuk2jaffa, you should get your little tangarine a touchscreen monitor (one of the saphire coated ones so it cant be broken) and show him what computers will be like soon :) (dont make him have gorilla arm though, lie it flat)12:56
Jaffalcuk2: that's be cool.12:56
* Jaffa goes to look for USB touchscreens12:56
JaffaOr, a whole new monitor12:56
lcuk2you can get a touchscreen overlay for cheap :)12:56
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JaffaThat'd probably work quite well when it's the laptop screen; may be tricky with a 17" desktop monitor12:58
lcuk2lim always worried when little lcuk gets on my tablet, the first few times with lukes ds it was liuke he was mining the screen12:58
JaffaJaffa Jr. loves his (mum's) N810 and can navigate the bookmarks menu and stuff with the stylus. Likes TuxPaint, too.12:59
lcuk2jaffa, get one from ebay aimed for EPOS systems, they are usually better more durable cabinets and geared towards laying flat / at an angle rather than upright12:59
lcuk2jake like mahjong12:59
JaffaMrs. Jaffa wants the N900 to be announced at the summit so I can get one of them and she can have an N810 all to herself again12:59
lcuk2and youtube12:59
lcuk2my missus almost threw mine away :(13:00
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GeneralAntillesVeery interesting, dneary.13:05
dnearyGeneralAntilles: Indeed13:05
dnearyAll about establishing a norm & culture, and querying interests, and facilitating newcomers & communication13:06
RST38hlcuk: She threw your n8x0 away? How do you survive now?13:11
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JaffaInteresting. One of the lightning sessions on Friday is now "Sneak preview" by Yannick Pellet (Nokia)13:39
GAN800Put baloo and his cameras as close to the stage as possible.13:40
X-FadeHeh ;)13:40
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JaffaWe could just mug Yannick for whatever device he has ;-)13:40
GAN800. . . and lcuk and his Nokian snatching bag right next to him. ;)13:40
GAN800Great minds. . . .13:41
Jaffas/Great/Evil/ ;-)13:41
lcuknokian snatching bag?13:45
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lcuki might be from manchester but that doesnt make me a scally13:45
GAN800It's for13:45
GAN800a good cause13:45
jottis there actually someone live blogging from aris keynote? :)13:52
jottgizmodo style :p13:53
* Jaffa may be too busy hanging on his every word.13:53
JaffaIf there's a net connection, I'll type into here as stuff happens; unless there's a better live-blogging type thing.13:53
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JaffaTwitter maybe? Never used it13:53
jottonly nice thing would be pictures :)13:53
JaffaNot with my crappy W850i's camera.13:54
jottirc should be fine as microblogging system ;)13:54
jottjust get close enough ;)13:54
lcukupload images as asciiart13:55
jott|[  ]|  <- n90013:56
lcukwhen is his presentation?13:56
lcuk[ . : ] vulcan multitouch grip13:56
Jaffalcuk, like "Ari was unhappy with the 770's user experience, :-(. Now, with Fremantle, Ari is happy: :-D" ?13:56
GAN800'oh snappp! whats that hes got now??'13:57
Jaffajott: aren't we hoping for a smaller bevel? [__] ? ;-)13:57
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jottand a good dpad :)  [+  ] :)13:58
lcukprofile shot showing its thinner than a mac air      ---13:58
GAN800It sure a better13:58
GAN800It sure as hell better be.13:58
JaffaPreferably look as pretty, too13:58
lcukretains the slideout keyboard:13:58
lcuk[   ]13:59
GAN800Stupid fingerkeyboards sends when I don't want it to and wont when I do.13:59
lcukim VERY tempted to put this sliding key input method in13:59
lcukbut i know id get in trouble13:59
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RST38hlcuk: so what happened with your tablet?14:01
jottlcuk: look at their patents and work around it :)14:02
lcuknothin, she *wanted* to throw it away :)14:02
Jaffalcuk: "sliding key input"?14:02
lcukwell my code will look nothing like their code14:02
jottlcuk: this swype thingy :)14:02
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jotterm Jaffa ^^^14:02
jottlcuk: that has nothing to do with patents..14:03
jottthat's copyright ;)14:03
lcukso they have patented a method to use the touchscreen stylus to accept strokes and turn them into words?14:03
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, you figure out screenshots yet?14:04
GeneralAntillesI still want to get that site up. :P14:04
lcukwe bought a touchscreen to do just that14:04
GeneralAntillesand, you know, it's not every project with a council member working on its website. :P ;)14:04
lcuki was thinking about that earlier actually14:04
* Jaffa looks at for a video14:04
lcuki think i can save png quite easily, if i get inclination i will - i want to save actual sketches anyway14:04
Jaffalcuk: that can't be patented - I saw it years ago implemented as a Java applet.14:05
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jottJaffa: you remember what it was called. this thing looked somehow familiar to me but i couldn't tell where from :)14:06
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JaffaHmm, it's not coming to mind14:07
JaffaI'm sure it was discussed on ITT at well14:07
Stskeepsfind some prior art so we can get it implemented as a h-i-m14:07
StskeepsJaffa: but yeah, i recall seeing something like this before14:07
GeneralAntillesThe patent system is just screwed up enough these days that prior art probably wont actually have an effect.14:07
jottbut even then, this could also be patented before and they bought the right/patent/patent holder what ever :P14:07
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* GeneralAntilles looks at the Summit schedule.14:10
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JaffaIBM Research project called "SHARK"14:11
GeneralAntillesI'm thinking Reggie and Krisse's presentation is either going to be really interesting or really lame.14:12
jottJaffa: ah yeah indeed!14:12
jotti think this was the one i had in mind ;)14:12
* Jaffa is relieved to have found it - would've killed me if I couldn't find it.14:12
Jaffame too14:12
GeneralAntillesKrisse's got a good finger on the pulse of users14:13
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GeneralAntillesbut it seems likely that it may just end up as a "we want PIM, we want a SIM card, we want iPhone things"14:13
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hachiJaffa: I assume you mean to be telling someone else?14:15
Jaffa"We want Canola to replace Maemo"14:15
Jaffahachi: yes, sorry14:15
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hachino worries, just wanted to make sure :)14:15
* Jaffa did first letter <tab> and missed 'j' by a character14:15
hachiI tend to forget names :)14:15
GeneralAntillesHadn't looked at the schedule in a while14:16
GeneralAntilleslooks quite tasty14:16
RST38hlcuk: ufff14:19
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* RST38h does not want Canola to replace Maemo14:19
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GeneralAntillesNo, and it wont happen.14:20
RST38hGiven how prone Canola is to hangups...14:20
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RST38hNot before they do away with dbus for communications with the player, anyway14:20
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JaffaIndeed. It's exemplar of fairly uninformed comments you sometimes get on ITT, though14:20
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JaffaIt shows a) a lack of understanding of the problems of an OS-wide UI; b) a misunderstanding of the difference between an OS/platform and an application/app framework.14:21
RST38hI am totally ok if a FIXED Canola replaces Maemo media player though14:21
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aquatixRST38h: yeah14:21
RST38hKrisse is a Symbian guy, you should forgive him that14:21
* aquatix rather likes the maemo `desktop' 14:21
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RST38hIn Symbian, your "desktop" is nothing more than a scrollable list of 9 icons14:21
RST38hThe rest is all apps14:22
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aquatixor a today screen14:22
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Jaffaaquatix: it's getting there. I'm still not convinved about quite so many of the desktop metaphors being copied on such a physically small screen, but momentum seems to be in the right direction. I may be of a different opinion some time next week ;-)14:22
aquatixwhat would be awesome was to get my cellphone syncing with my n810 for contacts and agenda14:22
RST38htoday screen is an app14:22
aquatixRST38h: maybe, but it's the default thing you see (standby screen)14:23
RST38hand it isn't the same across their phones, too14:23
aquatixor at least it is on my uiq3 phone14:23
RST38hyea, but Nokia never claimed it to be a desktop, everybody in Symbian world treats it as an app14:23
aquatixrightly so, i guess14:24
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jottJaffa: <- was the other one i had in mind.14:28
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JaffaI think I'd seen a version of that years ago - but the page was different so it could've been a similar, but different impl.14:28
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jottJaffa: that's the one by ken perlin from 1999 :)14:30
jott(the input method not necessarily the site layout :)14:30
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jottit's a bit different though.14:31
jottbut still without lifting the pen.14:31
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jottstill there is probably a big patent cloud above all this :/14:32
jottwell we could just exclude the usa from any distribution channels :P14:34
Stskeepsjott: quikwriting already exists for maemo14:36
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lcukjott, if its not released whos being harmed14:55
* lcuk just wants to play14:56
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GeneralAntillesjott, ?14:56
lcukcrap, i cant get 5 minutes today, back later14:57
andre___3699? context? (just took a look at that one)14:58
GeneralAntillesAh, plenware.14:59
GeneralAntillesI still want to know what their angle is.14:59
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Jaffajott: the IBM one's been published in a paper, so it won't be patented (/me knows the joys of the internals of IBM's patent system)15:05
JaffaGeneralAntilles: would be interesting to see the totality of the bugs has touched15:06
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GeneralAntillesProbably not everything15:08
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Jaffa36 according to a "one of ... contains" conains plenware.15:08
GeneralAntillesMissing a few bug states. ;)15:08
JaffaOf course. Numptu.15:08
Jaffa64. Interesting variety.15:09
GeneralAntillesThe test bugs are a nice touch.15:09
andre___half of their comments are suitable deletion candidates15:18
GeneralAntillesI'm picturing them sitting in a sea of cubicles dicking around with tablets all day.15:19
GeneralAntillesI really, really wonder what they money behind it all is about.15:20
GeneralAntillesMeet the new Maemo UI team? :D15:20
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lopzbuenos dias15:22
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, think we can get around to electing a chair yet?15:31
JaffaWe should have a go - would be good to have that in the talk on Saturday.15:32
JaffaFirst step: ask if anyone *doesn't* want to be the chair?15:32
GeneralAntillesWant to handle it on- or off-list?15:32
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JaffaMy instinct says "off", but I suppose there's no reason it couldn't be on- (are people likely to chime in and say "I don't want /you/ to be chair" who aren't council?)15:33
GeneralAntillesSeems unlikely, but it's really an internal issue15:33
JaffaIt is. Should our default position - for now, at least - be everything open unless it's really private (like, where/when we go for food ;-))15:34
GeneralAntillesThat's my inclination.15:34
* Jaffa is convinced it's better than any other alternative, despite the relative pros & cons15:35
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GeneralAntillesUnless it's sensitive or truly internal (like the chair selection), discussions should be open by default.15:37
JaffaIsn't even the internal stuff being in the open good for two reasons: 1) the nebulous "transparency"; 2) setting an example for the /second/ council of what we're doing, how we're doing it, etc?15:38
JaffaWould seem inefficient for the same discussions to *have* to happen next March.15:39
GeneralAntillesYeah, that's true.15:39
JaffaLet's try doing the chair selection in public and see what happens. If it's a disaster, it can be the last time we do internal stuff in public ;-)15:40
GeneralAntillesSounds perfectly reasonable to me.15:40
* GeneralAntilles goes to draft the email.15:40
JaffaCos it's not really something important if it does get FUBAR15:40
* Jaffa 's in the middle of writing an evaluation for a particuarly tricky colleague.15:41
JaffaNot in /everything/, and I think I have to be more constructive than that ;-)15:42
Jaffa"He often keeps his beard trimmed"15:42
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GeneralAntillesThe chairperson's powers and responsibilities need to be figured out.15:44
JaffaEasy stuff: 1) Chairing, scheduling & agendaing meetings; 2) setting the tone? 3) probably *not* directing the council - that'd should be more consensus based15:45
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JaffaNot imagining a lot of power, TBH15:45
GeneralAntillesI noticed some confusion about it in here the other day15:46
JaffaReally? Didn't spot it myself; worth id15:46
Jaffas/id/digging out a log URL?/15:46
infobotJaffa meant: Really? Ddigging out a log URL?n't spot it myself; worth id15:46
GeneralAntillessome people were under the impression that the chairperson was a "president" with real power.15:47
JaffaBad regexp-fu15:47
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JaffaPfft. Nah. This is "chair" in a council sense, not a communist party sense ;-)15:47
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JaffaThe council doesn't have much power, except in voice. How could the chair? ;-)15:47
GeneralAntillesBut it's probably worth being specific about that.15:47
JaffaAgreed. Nowt wrong with clarity15:47
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Andymeowsdoes anyone have a solution for the flashing problem with Diablo?15:51
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JaffaAndymeows: "flashing problem"?15:53
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GeneralAntillesHrm, any preference between chair/chairperson/chairman?15:54
GeneralAntillesI'm in favor of just "chair" myself.15:54
AndymeowsJaffa: write failed after 0 bytes15:54
JaffaGeneralAntilles: ditto. "chair" is, I think, the accepted business usage these days.15:54
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JaffaAndymeows: Not seen it. As root?15:55
Andymeowsyeah, then: usb_bulk_write: Resource temporarily unavailable15:55
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RST38hGAN: you can use "stool"15:59
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, skip that and go straight to "feces"? :D16:00
AndymeowsJaffa, ok I restarted it and tried again and it worked16:00
RST38hGAN: too inelegant16:00
JaffaAndymeows: cool ;-)16:00
RST38hIt is sufficient to create this thought with the word play =)16:01
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Stskeepsbtw, kudos to whoever made it easier to pop the battery on n81016:14
crashanddiea little bit too easy sometimes16:16
Stskeepscompared to fighting with it on n800..16:16
GeneralAntillesIt's easy as can be16:16
crashanddieJust throw it from the 3rd floor16:17
crashanddiebattery removal service, call 118 218 and say "N eight hundred"16:17
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Talus46_n810so what's new?16:41
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Jaffalo Talus46_n81016:43
JaffaEveryone's on tenter hooks for the summit16:43
X-Fadelol ;)16:44
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Talus46_n810where will it be?16:44
JaffaBerlin. Next week. Even if the hype we're working ourselves up with falls flat (Ari's keynote, Fremantle announcements, etc. etc.) it'll be good to put names to faces; see lots of cool stuff & drink some beer16:45
woglindeyes our good german beer16:45
ccookeis anything important expected at the summit?16:45
* GeneralAntilles still wants to pull a Cartman.16:45
GeneralAntillesToo bad it's still summer. . . .16:45
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Mekwhat is 'to pull a Cartman'? :)16:46
Jaffaccooke: It's expected that Maemo 5 (Fremantle) will be announced, with more detail. It's also looking like it's possible there'll be an N900 announcement.16:46
Talus46_n810well i'm sad because i can't go next week16:46
GeneralAntillesMek, paragraphs 1 and 4 of the Plot summary.16:46
ccookeJaffa: okay. All sounds good.16:46
JaffaThe former's a dead cert. The latter, possibly wishful interpretation of various comments.16:46
Mek:) ah yeah, saw that episode...16:46
Talus46_n810nice n90016:47
JaffaThe Fremantle stuff'll possibly be more important.16:47
Talus46_n810will it have a powerfull cpu?16:47
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_Shurik_Hola fellow maemo-ists16:48
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JaffaIf it comes, it'll be powerfull*er* probably.16:48
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GeneralAntillesOMAP3430, if anything.16:49
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Talus46_n810a 3G?16:49
GeneralAntillesSure as hell hope not.16:50
GeneralAntillesThere's practically no chance of it, anyway.16:50
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* ccooke wonders what sort of improvement would be expected on an omap343016:58
Stskeepsccooke: online porn will be running more smoothly in browser..16:58
JaffaIt currently... sticks?16:59
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GeneralAntillesccooke, TI has a website.16:59
GeneralAntillesCompare the stats to the OMAP242016:59
ccookeGeneralAntilles: I am...16:59
ccookeGeneralAntilles: but that's marketing :-)16:59
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ccookealthough at least it can power the screen...17:01
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GeneralAntillesMuch faster with the same battery life figures.17:01
ccookeNow that would be impressive.17:02
GeneralAntillesEh, technology gets better over time17:02
GeneralAntillesThe OMAP2420 is 2006 tech17:02
ccookeyeah, and every now and then it's nice to acknowledge the fact :-)17:02
GeneralAntillesWe're going ARM11 -> Cortex A817:02
JaffaHopefully, given TI are being more open in the OMAP3 range we'll get more of the hardware used, too :)17:02
ccookeDoes anyone think there's a possibility (or even a need for) a higher resolution screen?17:03
JaffaIt'd be nice, but it'd have to be physically bigger too, I think.17:03
JaffaNow there's some room for that in an N810 form factor, but I don't think it'll happen any time soon17:04
GeneralAntillesI might go for a ~4.5" 1024x60017:04
ccookeJaffa: They do XGA screens in roughly the same size, now17:04
GeneralAntillesDepending on how they work the size and shape17:04
_Shurik_I'm observing conversations in #maemo and #iphone. #maemo talks CPU and XGA screens17:04
_Shurik_#iphone talks silicone cases17:04
Jaffaccooke: I'm with GA, it'd have to at least 4.5", I think. Of course, doesn't mean everything'd be smaller.17:04
ccooke_Shurik_: on the other hand, #iphone have a consumer-ready device.17:04
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Jaffaccooke: we're (supposedly) only one step away...17:05
inzccooke, and silicone cases17:05
ccookeJaffa: two steps, IIRC17:05
GeneralAntillesI wouldn't have any issue with 4.1 at 1024x60017:05
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_Shurik_yes but of course there's planty of problems with it too17:05
_Shurik_so I'm keeping both17:05
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: i.e. same physical size as now. Depends how much consistency and usability fremantle brings without just making everything bigger17:06
* ccooke is somewhat surprised to hear about Fremantle17:06
ccookeDiablo's barely released17:07
GeneralAntillesDiablo's a dinky maintenance release.17:07
GeneralAntillesOS2008 is about 10 months old17:07
GeneralAntillesMajor OS releases are yearly17:08
dnearyDo you know where comes in the Google search for "Nokia N810 software download"?17:08
_Shurik_I haven't updated to Diablo yet. Is there a really good reson to?17:08
GeneralAntillesFremantle is planned to have more community involvement in its development17:08
GeneralAntillesNothing surprising at all.17:08
GeneralAntilles_Shurik_, just update, you're at least two revisions behind.17:08
_Shurik_Kinda scared. Haven't had any issues with Chinook17:09
_Shurik_but you're probably right... might as well17:09
ccookeis diablo the first mainentance release they did?17:09
ccooke(as in, the first non-full-yearly version?)17:10
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Jaffaccooke: short answer, no.17:10
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mavhcI want a case where the front (clear) flips behind the back and acts as a stand somehow17:11
dnearyWhen I search for "site: Nokia N810 software download", the download page is the 4th choice17:11
dneary2 news pages and HOWTO FlashLatest... from the old wiki come first17:11
dnearyThe downloads page without the "site:" qualifier is even worse17:12
dnearyIt's not on the first 10 pages17:12
brontidesearching for API docs almost always brings you to v 3.1 docs17:12
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GeneralAntillesmavhc, the tablets already have built-in stands. . . .17:13
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GeneralAntillesdneary, can you delete those flashing howtos from the old wiki?17:13
dnearyGeneralAntilles: Probably17:13
brontidesearching for "n810 firmware" is even worse17:14
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JaffaNeed to start Google bombing, perhaps17:15
brontideNeed to clean up the site17:16
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GeneralAntillesBy the way, brontide, really nice work on the schedule. It looks good.17:18
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brontideI'm sorry you won't be there... I would have been nice to argue semantics over a few pints.17:19
JaffaHmm, just noticed on Saturday: 12:30 "Nokia & Productivity tools"17:19
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JaffaAnd, at the same time, Clutter - in the "core platform" track17:19
brontideGah... don't tell me there is a presentor conflict17:20
mavhcGeneralAntilles: I know, but they don't work when in a case17:20
JaffaNo, just me wanting to be in two places at the same time :)17:20
GeneralAntilles^ I would die trying to work that one out.17:21
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: best not being there after all ;-)17:21
GeneralAntillesLikely. ;)17:22
brontideWhy doesn't the logo on the wiki link to somewhere?17:23
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brontidelike the homepage17:23
GeneralAntillesbrontide, it did for a while17:23
dnearyIt links to (or should do)17:23
GeneralAntillesI think was a recent change.17:24
Jaffait does.17:24
Jaffajust checked.17:24
murraycdneary: Will you put an SVG of the logo up somewhere?17:24
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dnearymurrayc: I believe that one was mailed to the community list17:24
brontideno linky here17:24
JaffaHmm, screenshot for the current pearl (Evince) is a Linux desktop screenshot17:24
Mekbrontide: I guess there are no more lightning talk slots available on saturday for a quick talk about kde-on-maemo? :P17:24
dnearyI have the last-but-one revision, I believe17:24
dnearyCommunity file storage and content management - there's a problem space that we're not good at yet17:24
GeneralAntilles<div class="grouplogo">17:24
GeneralAntilles<img src="" title="" alt="Maemo" />17:24
murraycI'm not following it enough to know what's the correct image.17:24
brontideMek: put yourself down on the waitlist... right now we have 30 minutes and 6 5 minute Lightning sessions17:25
* Jaffa sees from the agenda - looks interesting.17:25
GeneralAntillesI wanna see the police car N810s17:25
brontideThe description is slightly different from what he emailed me... his talk will focus a little more on 3rd party development on the platform17:26
brontideJaffa: On the top of the wiki is a graphical logo.   It does not link anywhere... at least under firefox317:28
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, ping.17:28
Jaffabrontide: at the top-left corner, where the wikipedia logo is on ?17:28
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Yep17:28
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, can you linkify that image again? :P17:28
X-FadeI didn't change it ;)17:29
GeneralAntillesJaffa, you using the theme for the wiki?17:29
brontidetop left ( I have a wikipedia skin so it's not there for me )17:29
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, I swear it used to be a link to maemo.org17:29
JaffaGeneralAntilles: ah no, it was using Monobook on this machine.17:29
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JaffaYes. Now I see it :-)17:30
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brontideMek: I'm pretty sure there will be some suffling when people arrive so there is a good chance you can do your demo17:35
JaffaAnd there'll always be breaks & stuff17:37
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lcukjaffa, frogmetrics, they are the ones who send n810s into a company, do a whole survey and have results on managers workstation live as it happens17:38
lcuk(at least thats the impression i got - it might not be that live, but they needed deployment of mobile wifi basestation to get results from users in realtime17:39
Jaffalcuk: indeed; looks effective17:39
* lcuk was very interested by the information and demonstration he saw :)17:40
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lcukok, we NEED a very quick bluetooith business card transfer program for at the summit17:41
lcukor are people sticking with original printed cards (i havent got any :()17:41
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lcukcack! i need to go again17:42
* lcuk cant get comfy today17:42
Jaffaonly got my work ones, will bring some - might meet someone willing to pay me a fortune to do very little17:42
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JaffaFor anyone staying in the same hotel as me (Mercure Mitte), here's a handy PDF combining hotel info, directions & Google map:
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_Shurik_I'm sorry, where is that event taking place?17:48
mgedminc-base, berlin, germany17:49
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_Shurik_oh okay. Far far away17:50
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* Stskeeps goes try to build dropbox for deblet17:52
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JaffaSkyHook's made Slashdot:
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GeneralAntillesThat seems like a bit of a privacy invasion.18:09
JaffaYeah, but now Maemo Mapper - for example - could use the API to get loc data without a GPS connection.18:11
JaffaOr we can use it with AGPS Beta to better enrich the gpsd data18:11
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JaffaOr, more likely, SkyHook'll change the username & password18:12
JaffaDoesn't know mine.18:13
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Stskeepsgah.. fuckers - dropbox has a closed source daemon binary18:19
Stskeepsbut open source client18:19
lcukstskeeps, thats flase advertising - its like entering a brothel to find out they only have grotmags18:20
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Stskeepsyeah, i prodded them to make an armel port18:26
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brontideis iwlist in any of the standard repos?18:42
AStormno, there's no good support in the driver18:44
AStormthe driver doesn't support wireless extensions correctly18:45
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brontidecurse you cx3110x18:45
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GAN800Just be thankful you can connect to wifi at all. :D18:46
GAN800It's too bad there really aren't any decent open source friendly wifi chips.18:48
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||cwRST38h: where is that?18:58
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RST38hmy guess is that they tried to spell "beach"19:00
brontideengrish is always good for a laugh19:01
RST38htakes some effort to get words exactly wrong though =)19:02
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lcuki have just made the missus very happy, ive just said the words shes always wanted to hear, but never expected me to say: "Go to ikea..."20:00
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lbt"That looks dangerous"..... "It should be OK, I saw it work in a cartoon once..."20:34
glasswhat? chrome?20:35
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AStormGAN800: there are, Atheros20:46
summatusmentislcuk: it's all downhill from there20:50
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Alystairis there a way to rotate the screen on the 770?21:01
AlystairIn many cases I'd prefer a longer screen21:01
rm_you_rotation support for the 770 WAS possible... things went weird tho at some point21:04
rm_you_and currently the method we use doesn't work, I believe :/21:04
rm_you_though if you are running an older OS, there should be information about how to do that online21:05
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elektyou're not missing much alystair21:05
RST38hmoo, rm_you21:05
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RST38hso quiet22:05
RST38his it friday>22:05
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jotteverybody just pretends to be afk and on a party :P22:05
RST38hyea, right...22:06
RST38h+6oC outside, wind and rain22:06
jottgrab yourself a cocktail and enjoy the weather.22:06
jott(or just pretend :)22:07
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lcukim building a chair22:08
* Stskeeps is going to spend an evening debianizing deblet :/22:08
RST38hjott: that's basically what I am doing22:08
lcukand later i  will be recreating liqbase from the ground up22:08
* RST38h has added universal "show framerate" option to all the emulators and is looking at /dev/fb0 usage22:08
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lcukRST38h, :) i now know 100% i can get fullscreen full resolution scaleblit in 25fps :)22:09
RST38hwait...did you say SCALEblit? =)22:10
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lcuki added alpha blitting since, but thats a bit slower22:11
RST38hwhat size is the source image then?22:12
moontigerwhat scale-blit code are you using?22:12
lcukRST38h, smaller or larger - doesnt actually matter22:12
RST38hit can't22:13
RST38hhas to matter somehow22:13
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lcuknot really - i recurse through the dest pixels - i occasionally increment the source pointer to skip pixels but thats about it22:14
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lcukif its a small image i inc less, if its large more - but they are in reg adds only (i assume the compiler does it stuff in a little tight loop)22:15
RST38hoh, you scale down22:16
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lcukRST38h, scale down or up :)22:21
jottnearest-neighbor interpolation so to speak :)22:23
RST38hon the other hand your destination is always the same size22:23
lcukno, bresham algo turned to bitmap scaling22:23
RST38hso yea, you will have roughly the same time22:24
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jottlcuk: well not much of a different...22:24
lcukand i slightly overstated - its 23fps22:24
lcuki just tested with large and small images22:24
lcukno noticable difference22:24
lcuk(i had a strip at the top which was not being rendered (info bar) i just removed it22:25
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* Jaffa eughs. Too much food & wine.22:26
jottstill celebrating jaffa? :P22:26
JaffaBrother going back to uni22:27
lcuknever enough wine22:27
lcukor bacon22:27
JaffaBoth brothers have girlfriends. All sorts of celebrations22:27
* lcuk laughs evily cos he knows something you lot dont about next week22:27
JaffaWe had chicken in red wine, with gammon strips & red wine.22:28
Jaffalcuk: oh?22:28
jottari will announce the next itos will be based on liqbase :D22:28
lcuk:D itos?? liqit22:28
* lcuk has been create q*.c classes this week22:29
lcukim sick of typing liq*22:29
lcukit makes everything long22:29
lcuki really hope we get some more powerful hardware cos i wanna see what i can do with c++22:30
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jottliqimage* liqimage_liqscalers_liqliqscale_liqme(liqimage *i, liqnumber w, liqnumber h) :P22:31
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lcukheh, scarily close22:33
lcukliqimage *imgback = liqimage_createfromfilejpeg("marble_dark_400_240.jpg");22:33
jottno liqcliprect? :d22:34
jottwhat is wrong with you???22:34
lcuklol - there was but double barrelled classes seem wrong that way22:34
* jott liqs lcuk22:34
* lcuk gives classes 2 names only22:35
derf15:30:10 < lcuk> i really hope we get some more powerful hardware cos i wanna see what i can do with c++22:37
derfYou want to make slow, bloated libraries that are difficult to program for?22:37
lcuknot at all - i will never stop trying to code small distinct funcional classes22:37
lcukbut i am sick of having to put 2 pages of boilerplate down before i can work22:38
lcukive just incorporated reference counting and subclassing (to a degree) and now dont need to worrk about releasing stuff later and double frees and stuff22:38
derfSo, basically, the opposite of small and distinct?22:39
lcukno, but if i have created a tree of objects and on each node I might be storing (lets say) a style structure.  who frees it if i use it on 2 nodes?22:40
derfSo by no, you mean yes.22:41
lcukdo i go to a database type system where all instances are allocated and memorized centrally?  do i get double frees because both leave it open?  do i get memory leaks because both assume the other will?22:42
lcukno derf - this is boilerplate around 2 functions - the rest of the structure is exactly as it was (with 3 or 4 members and a few functions)22:42
derfTwo pages of boilerplate for two functions? That's some serious boilerplate.22:43
lcukyes, 1 for the actual alloc and free, and another to declare the header - im not gonna perlify it for the sake of space22:45
lcukits just annoying to have to put stuff like this that i can get for free in c++22:45
derfNothing comes for free in C++.22:45
lcukwhich is why ill probably end up making myself a preprocessor :) a new cfront22:46
derfFor two functions!22:46
derfIt's probably better than using C++, anyway.22:46
lcuktheres a few other things i can gain whilst im at it22:46
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derfAt least you won't make other people's lives miserable with a preprocessor.22:47
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* RST38h added the frame buffer support22:49
RST38hNo idea if it is gonna work though22:49
lcukis this rgb?22:50
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RST38hActually, it gets interesting there22:57
RST38h  /dev/fb0 is RGB56522:58
RST38h  /dev/fb1 and /dev/fb2 are YUV planes22:58
RST38hRebooting to Linsux to try it22:58
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mikmaso, i changed some led-settings with gconftool. how can i now "execute" the changes so they will actually work?23:04
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RST38hhey, lcuk, where do I get omapfb.h?23:07
lcuktheres a few places i found it in and none were the same, but generally its in the kernel23:07
lcuki tihnk ive got about 10 different variations here23:08
RST38hgot it from stage23:09
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lbtin my gtk application everything is too small to be finger friendly... how do I make things larger? Isn't that normally a desktop theme issue?23:31
ToyKeeperlbt: Depends what "everything" is.  For example, you can put padding around the contents of buttons to make the buttons bigger...23:33
lbtcan I? yes. Would it suck? yes :)23:34
lbteverything is the font23:34
lbtthe checkboxes23:34
lbtthe menubar buttons23:35
lbtthe combobox23:35
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lbt(I already hacked the menubar combobutton so the button as well as the arrow pop up the menu)23:35
lbtI basically want to scale all the gui items to some degree23:36
lbt(I'd also like to colour them too - I've not even looked at that yet though)23:36
ToyKeeperFor a menubar, hildon has a different call than regular GTK, to make it fit with the rest of the theme.23:37
lbtin general do you know how I'd approach it?23:38
RST38hlcuk: Ok, it does not crash but looks like I am missing something23:38
RST38hI do not see the video23:38
ToyKeeperBasically, the main window is a "hildon.Window()" instead of a "gtk.Window()", and the menubar is set with "window.set_menu(my_menus)".23:38
RST38hScreen stays black23:38
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lcukare you opening a black x window to coverthe main desktop?23:39
RST38hI do this:23:39
RST38h    /* Wait for vsync */23:39
RST38h    ioctl(FBFD,OMAPFB_VSYNC);23:39
RST38h    /* Request fb transfer to LCD video memory */23:39
RST38h    ioctl(FBFD,OMAPFB_UPDATE_WINDOW,&FBUpdate);23:39
RST38hIn full screen mode23:39
lbtOh, I'm fine with the menubar - everyhing is functional23:39
RST38hIs there anything else I have to do?23:39
dystopiaphone customer support, tell them your phone is dying, then toss it down from the roof23:39
lcukso you have created the main x11 window to cover everything up (otherwise you get bleed through from desktop applets updating..)23:39
lcukthis is set to fullscreen and black23:39
RST38hnah, I do not have the main x11 window23:40
ToyKeeperlbt: Maybe I just have pointier fingers, but I've found the maemo widgets to be plenty big for finger use, even after reducing the font size.23:40
RST38hJust switch to full screen mode, that s all23:40
lcukthen if its going black you are blitting something wrong - ie you are initialising something23:40
lbtmmm - not really the answer I was looking for :)23:41
lcukyou say switch to fullscreen mode - the fb is always fullscreen23:41
RST38hDo you mean the two ioctl()s from above are sufficient to blit?23:41
ToyKeeperlbt: A screenshot might explain faster.23:41
RST38hWell, I am telling OSSO that I am switching to full screen :)23:41
lcukdo it without the sync itself - it will tear but if its holding something up ytou will see23:41
lbtwell, right now my tablet appears somewhat unhappy23:41
lcukmost likely its the way you have initiialised the mode23:41
lbtif you have extras-devel then get shopper23:42
ToyKeeperlbt: I'm not sure if I can really help, but it helps to be looking at the same thing.  :)23:42
lbtsee for yourself23:42
lbtI'd appreciate it :)23:42
lcuklbt, thats why i build from the top down - start with fullscreen and subdivide :)23:42
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RST38hok, here is my init code:23:42
RST38h  FBFD = open("/dev/fb0",O_RDWR);23:43
lcuklbt, even in gtk i do it that way - i dont use toolbars, i make a button strip23:43
lbtlcuk: I was trying to learn "the maemo way"23:43
lcukit sizes things within it23:43
lbtthe toolbar is the least of my worries23:43
RST38h    FBImg.Data = (pixel *)mmap(0,800*480*sizeof(pixel),PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,23:43
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RST38hpixels are 16bit23:43
lbtI'm mainly interested in the checkboxes, label fonts etc23:43
RST38hIs this how I should do it?23:43
lcukRST38h, no, you should ask omap for the memory ifiak23:44
lcuklemme just dig23:44
RST38htellme tellme tellme23:45
lcukcall FBIOGET_FSCREENINFO and obtain the required size23:46
lcukthen use that returned size for the call to mmap23:46
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RST38hI am pretty sure 800*480*2 should do23:46
RST38hbut what about the mmap address?23:46
lcuki know yours may be getting the right size somewhere - but if you have miscalculated or its not the same internally you will go wrong23:46
jottRST38h: hmm. this should work actually..23:46
RST38hyes but not badly right?23:47
jottRST38h: are you sure your update window is right?23:47
lcukomapfb_screen_update(0,0,   winW,winH,   winW,winH,   out_omapfb_format);23:47
RST38hdunno - I have quoted the update code before23:47
RST38hmmm? is there a function like that?23:48
jottyeah but i mean the FBUpdate23:48
RST38hOk. Here it is:23:48
lcukhow are you initializing fbupdate and the flags within it23:49
jottthe mmap returns something sane, right? (not MAP_FAILED)23:49
jotthe's looking for it :)23:50
lcukits the flags thats at fault here23:50
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lcukmplayer uses this method for updating :)23:51
jotti use it too :D23:51
jottbut actually it just needs x,y,width,height,out_x,out_y,out_width,out_height,format (which i set to 0)23:52
lcukwhat are you playin with now?23:52
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lbtbollocks - OK, my tablet isn't responding to touch properly. It makes a sound and touch when booting to Deblet is fine. But my diablo install is buggered23:52
jottlcuk: oh i played with fb stuff some time ago..23:53
lbtany idea what might be wrong?23:53
lcukif (tearsync_flag) update.format |= OMAPFB_FORMAT_FLAG_TEARSYNC;23:53
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lcukmplayer :)23:53
ToyKeeperlbt: I know this doesn't help, but it works fine for me...  the only issues I had were missing features to edit or delete items.23:53
lbtToyKeeper: oh it all works23:53
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lcukit actually sounmds like its using different memory23:53
lbtadd items is easy - click the + button23:53
lbtpress and hold an item to edit23:53
lbt(both available from the menu too)23:54
lcukjott - i touched it for about 2 weeks right at the start23:54
lbthowever try wandering around a supermarket holding it in one hand23:54
lbtI want about 5 items visible and to use my thumb to stab at the screen :)23:54
lbt(and this is real-world user feedback too)23:55
ToyKeeperAh, the items were hiding behind a touch/hold menu.  :)23:55
* lcuk calls this effect visiblefromorbit23:55
* lbt thinks lcuk is right23:55
lcuki really dont see why all of hildon is designed to use smallest features23:55
lbtthink Fischer-Price....23:55
lcukwe are not on a desktop and need big things23:56
lbtBig colourful buttons23:56
lcuklike liqbase has :)23:56
lbtthat you can hit with a plastic hammer23:56
* lcuk gets a plastic mallet23:56
lbt(lcuk I'm going to port it I swear)23:56
lbtjust give me a C++ interface...23:56
lcukim surprised you cannot replace the list with a custom one built out of labels23:56
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lcukyou say this is slow though23:57
GrackleIf anyone is interested in an N800, I just put mine on eBay:
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lbtwell, I don't know why it's slow - I've not profiled it yet23:57
Haviinvalid item23:57
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lcuklbt, you mean: #ifdef __cplusplus23:57
lcukextern "C" {23:57
lbtI'm using callbacks extensively23:57
ToyKeeperlbt: You can edit $HOME/.osso/current-gtk-theme to change the font size, but it gets overwritten each boot and affects all programs.23:57
GrackleHavi, oh, I just listed it, maybe it's not really up yet.23:57
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GrackleEr, no, I just cut off the wrong part of the url. >.>;23:57
lbtToyKeeper: and I really just want my app to change - I'm not rude23:57
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lcuklbt, its a purely functional api - its not perfect and new layers get inserted all the time but its fun building something like this :)23:58
lcukint canvas_init(int pixelwidth,int pixelheight,int rotationangle,int fullscreen);23:58
ToyKeeperReally, maemo should allow the user to configure GTK fonts, preferably on a per-app basis.  I had to override an init script just to keep it from clobbering my config.23:58
lcuklike that you mean :P23:58
lbtindeed (lcuk and ToyKeeper)23:59
lcuklbt, i try to write everything as a function and to give objects a lifespan23:59
lbtOK - new topic... why is my tablet broke?23:59

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