IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2008-09-08

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solmumaha	does your package update properly?	00:01
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qwerty12-N800	I have a feeling it does, at least it reinstalled successfully while it was already installed. but i shift the data in the postinst, not the preinst	00:03
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moontiger	lcuk, how is the apple keyboard in real world use?	00:13
moontiger	oh crap i missed him	00:13
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lcuk	i havent used it recently, but everytime i pick it up i marvel at its feel and comfort	00:18
lcuk	not quite, im codin not climbin everest	00:19
lcuk	moontiger, the one thing i miss is delete.	00:20
yacoob	any of you people tried android on n8xx?	00:20
qwerty12-N800	yacoob: it's old now :/ (if you mean the installer)	00:20
moontiger	lcuk, can you not remap that key above backspace to be delete?	00:20
lcuk	i probably could but for the amount of times i use it i just curse and do it the other way	00:20
lcuk	shift right delete	00:21
moontiger	someone was telling me a simple xmodmap thingy would do the trick :)	00:21
lcuk	it proably would but im a clutz at things like that	00:21
moontiger	ohhhhhhh shift+delete = delete?	00:21
yacoob	qwerty12-N800, I'm rather interested in general impressions - provided that android can do all that maemo can do + have decent PIM - this might be interesting	00:22
lcuk	no, shift + move cursor over what i wanna delete then backspace	00:22
moontiger	is it big? i mean to carry around in my bag with my other stuff?	00:22
lcuk	http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=810cratelaptopmodetc6.jpg	00:22
lcuk	for context	00:22
qwerty12-N800	http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/keyboard/	00:22
lcuk	thanks qwerty, saved and stored directly on my nokia :)	00:23
* lcuk will do it when he needs it		00:24
qwerty12-N800	np, mgedmin has diablo versions of xev + xmodmap in his repo	00:24
lcuk	ive got xev here	00:24
lcuk	was looking for something the other day	00:24
crashanddie	chrome fails @ wine	00:26
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dskippy	I am having a tricky time allowing a user to install some software on the maemo. Basically I have a script (running as "user") that I want to run dpkg in.	00:32
dskippy	I have done a chown root:root myscript	00:33
dskippy	And then chmod aug+s myscript	00:33
lbt	pretty sure you can't setuid a shellscript	00:34
dskippy	I thought that would cause my shell script to run with root privilages. But when I run it I get "dpkg: requested operation requires superuser privilege"	00:34
dskippy	Oh really? Does it need to be a binary?	00:34
lbt	the binary running is the shell interpreter	00:34
dskippy	So I guess I could write a C program to wrap dpkg in a secure way (meaning I set the arguments) and setuid that binary.	00:35
yacoob	dskippy, why don't you just suid the dpkg? :)	00:36
lbt	at that point I suggest just giving the user root	00:36
yacoob	(unless there's more than dpkg)	00:36
dskippy	Well I was hoping to avoid opening up a general usage program to avoid security issues.	00:36
dskippy	Though I don't really have much to worry about in my usage.	00:37
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dskippy	I just was frustrated that I couldn't do it "the right way" (TM)	00:37
mdg	Hello! Anyone have any tips for downloading firmware - it won't accept my ID #	00:38
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GeneralAntilles	mdg, sure you're on the right page?	00:39
jott	dskippy: why do you want to use a script at all to install something? that's what dpkg/deb packages are for...	00:39
mdg	http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/os2008_hacker_edition.php - is this the right page?	00:40
GeneralAntilles	Yeah	00:40
mdg	Is there something I'm not doing right in Linux mint?	00:40
mdg	maybe I should try on my windows machine?	00:41
GeneralAntilles	Shouldn't matter	00:41
lbt	I'm getting can't resolve symbol '__register_frame_info' running a binary in initfs under uclibc	00:41
GeneralAntilles	It is the Wifi WLAN MAC, right?	00:41
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mdg	yes	00:41
lbt	I've tried both scratchbox uclibc versions	00:42
lbt	any ideas?	00:42
qwerty12-N800	lbt: static compile	00:42
mdg	I'll recheck cookies	00:42
Kegetys	why does it even require the mac	00:42
lbt	nope - just tried that	00:42
lbt	damned watchdog just kicked me again...	00:42
jott	lbt: static should always work. make sure you really used -static :)	00:42
qwerty12-N800	hmm, all my initfs binaries work when static compiled	00:43
lbt	gcc -B static	00:43
qwerty12-N800	-static	00:43
lbt	Oh, must have read the wrong docs...	00:43
lbt	OK	00:43
mdg	still no luck	00:44
mdg	I'll try my windows machine (ick!)	00:44
qwerty12-N800	lbt: enable rd-mode, dsme wont reboot after 4 mins. also, i find it's easier to put my initfs bonaries in /tmp in maemo over ssh and chroot /mnt/initfs and test like that	00:45
qwerty12-N800	s/bonaries/binaries/	00:46
infobot	qwerty12-N800 meant: lbt: enable rd-mode, dsme wont reboot after 4 mins. also, i find it's easier to put my initfs binaries in /tmp in maemo over ssh and chroot /mnt/initfs and test like that	00:46
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lbt	qwerty12-N800: good tips - thanks :)	00:46
jott	you actually don't need to chroot to test :)	00:46
lbt	I wanted to be absolutely sure it was running against the initfs libraries...	00:47
dskippy	Actually "chmod ug+s /usr/bin/dpkg" doesn't even work. I still get the permission error when I run dpkg as user.	00:47
jott	it will not use the initfs libraries if it's static :P	00:47
qwerty12-N800	jott: true, if it's static it'll work anyway but i like the idea of running it in a initfs environment :)	00:47
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lbt	dpkg is probably bright enough to drop privs	00:47
dskippy	Damn dpkg and its brightness.	00:48
jott	dskippy: why do you want to do it in the fist place?	00:48
lbt	do either of you guys run usbnet against a bleeding 2.62.7-rcX kernel?	00:48
lbt	I get : unable to enumerate USB device on port 2	00:48
dskippy	jott: Good question. I have a program that is running on several nokias. Updating them all when I want to make a change is very difficult. I want the nokia to check for new versions itself and install it.	00:48
GeneralAntilles	Kegetys, that should be fairly obvious.	00:48
lbt	which may be a regression	00:48
GeneralAntilles	It's Nokia's way of ensuring you actually have a device	00:49
jott	dskippy: that's what package versions are for...	00:49
MakeGho	I wish there was some Go training software for n810	00:49
jott	and repositories..	00:49
dskippy	Jott: Yes I know.	00:49
GeneralAntilles	and therefore a license to a lot of the stuff on the tablet.	00:49
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Kegetys	GeneralAntilles: but if its the wlan mac address then it should not be that difficult for someone to "steal" your MAC address	00:49
dskippy	Jott: It doesn't work though. I want it to run when the user runs my program, check for updates, and install them.	00:49
GeneralAntilles	Kegetys, that's not the point.	00:49
GeneralAntilles	It's to satisfy various third-party vendors and Nokia legal.	00:50
jott	dskippy: that's not the "linux" way..	00:50
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dskippy	Jott: I am well aware of that. But I can't rely on the user to make updates.	00:50
lbt	dskippy: run a cronjob as root	00:50
GeneralAntilles	dskippy, familiarize yourself with package management.	00:50
Kegetys	GeneralAntilles: so, not logical at all and just a pointless inconvinience for the user :)	00:50
dskippy	General: I am pretty familiar.	00:50
GeneralAntilles	Kegetys, as with most legal requirements.	00:51
GeneralAntilles	But there is clearly a reason for it that's out of Nokia's hands. :)	00:51
lbt	dskippy: or maybe a cron.daily equivalent	00:51
dskippy	The issue is that these devices are going to be managed by a museum currator and given out to museum visitors.	00:51
lbt	you'd need to do it via alarmd on maemo	00:51
jott	dskippy: just exit you app with a message box telling the user to upgrade :)	00:51
dskippy	Jott: I'm sure I can do better than that.	00:51
jott	dskippy: then update via cron..	00:51
lbt	are they powered up and down?	00:51
jott	or at startup..	00:51
dskippy	I don't think cron will run if the device is off, will it?	00:52
lbt	jott: are you looking over my shoulder?	00:52
dskippy	lbt: They are off every day during closing.	00:52
Kegetys	GeneralAntilles: or they just dont bother with making such issues better because when you need that you have already paid for the device, which is what they care about ;)	00:52
lbt	really off?	00:52
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qwerty12-N800	anacron?	00:52
dskippy	lbt: Yes.	00:52
lbt	then edit the startup script	00:52
GeneralAntilles	Kegetys, I'm quite certain they'd prefer not having to implement complicated webserver checks. :)	00:52
dskippy	Where's that?	00:53
lbt	and apt-get install (after the wifi connects)	00:53
GeneralAntilles	But, particularly in the Opera days, they have licensing requirements to satisfy with 3rd-party companies.	00:53
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dskippy	lbt: Oh crap, it's quite likely the devices will be out of wifi range until they are needed.	00:54
lbt	look in /etc/rcX.d	00:54
lbt	that's OK	00:54
dskippy	I don't know if I can rely on a signal until the application is about to run.	00:54
lbt	pull the pkg in whilst on wifi	00:54
Kegetys	GeneralAntilles: well, they could just add a whole load of legal text and a checkbox "I agree and swear I own the device", and say to any 3rd party that if thats not good enough then goodbye we'll find someone who's more reasonable	00:54
lbt	--download	00:54
lbt	and then install it the next morning	00:54
GeneralAntilles	Kegetys, yeah, right.	00:54
GeneralAntilles	Hey, ho, guess what, our internet tablet doesn't have a browser anymore!	00:55
dskippy	lbt: Yeah that's true. I could have a one-day delay. but that's pretty annoying if an update is critical.	00:55
lbt	well, keep a wifi AP near the place they're turned on then	00:55
lbt	d'oh	00:55
dskippy	lbt: :) Not possible	00:56
Kegetys	GeneralAntilles: how do you know what opera would say? my point is just that they dont bother doing that because it is an issue that is not visible until you have already paid for the device and therefore propably is not a very high priority... same thing with nokia phones too on my experience	00:56
lbt	well, you ain't updating without a network	00:56
lbt	and if the device is in the users hands when it goes in range	00:56
jott	dskippy: then just check hourly for updates and download them...	00:56
dskippy	Are we sure it's not possible to allow "user" to install stuff? How does the application manager work? I never enter a password when using that.	00:56
lbt	you can't nicely update then either	00:56
jott	dskippy: sudoers	00:56
dskippy	jott: That might be the best way.	00:56
jott	dskippy: then just put some nice stuff in the pre/postinst scripts to guide the user...	00:57
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dskippy	I read sudoers a while ago. It actually contained a lot of programs that aren't there.	00:57
jott	(like "sorry for inconveniences, please press ok blabla")	00:57
dskippy	user ALL = (install) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/app-installer-tool	00:57
dskippy	app-installer-tool	00:58
dskippy	Doesn't exist.	00:58
jott	and cron is run as root anyway..	00:58
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yacoob	dskippy, but what's the problem with that? :)	00:58
jott	dskippy: ok so my proposal: run a system upgrade via cron every hour.	00:59
jott	but don't use external repositories, just your own so you have control over what will be updated.	01:00
dskippy	yacoob: Nothing accept I don't understand it.	01:00
jott	and run the upgrade with nice, so it won't interrupt the user that much.	01:01
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dskippy	Jott: I think I agree. That's the current winner. But if it's possible to allow the user to install stuff using sudoers I'd prefer that.	01:01
lbt	I thought you said the users were museum custodians?	01:01
jott	dskippy: that should work too .. but why not use existing infrastructure? :)	01:01
yacoob	lbt, oh, they can handle new technology as well... :)	01:02
jott	(well cron has to be installed, but still)	01:02
jott	it's prooven to work	01:02
dskippy	jott: 1) sudoers is also existing infrastructure.	01:02
GeneralAntilles	What, exactly, do they need to install?	01:02
lbt	yeah, but frankly I make my software easy for me to use - and I can handle it!	01:02
lcuk	cant you jsut hook into the existing ssu type thing and get automatic updates?	01:02
jott	GeneralAntilles: his own deployed packages.	01:02
lbt	I just don't want to most of the time	01:02
dskippy	jott: 2) There is an annoying situation with the cron. It's a race condition.	01:02
jott	lcuk: that needs too much user interaction. i would remove the application manager completely from the device..	01:03
dskippy	Jott: Turn on device, run the program, expect the new update, then after the app starts the cron updates it, the user doesn't see this until the exit and restart which might be tomorrow.	01:03
dskippy	jott: There is no race condition if the update is part of the app running and forces a check and possibly install when the user turns on the device and runs the app.	01:04
jott	but if you say your updates are criticial and can't wait a day? ..	01:04
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dskippy	Jott: I can't parse that sentence.	01:04
jott	you said it would be bad to run cron the next morning as your updates might contain critical fixes that need to be deployed more or less immediately...	01:05
* lbt smells a dead horse		01:05
lcuk	if the deps arent gonna change just write a small bin_start program which does update checking and which might be replaced by the main software	01:05
lcuk	we do it in windows quite a lot	01:05
dskippy	Jott: Yes, that's right.	01:05
dskippy	And the fastest they can get there to do a check every time the user runs the program.	01:05
jott	ah so the program is started often?	01:06
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jott	i thought about starting it in the morning and exit it in the evening..	01:06
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lcuk	if its business software it might not be shutdown routinely	01:06
dskippy	Jott: It usually is run all day, yes.	01:06
lcuk	do YOU turn off your calculator?	01:06
lcuk	big pc is one thing..	01:07
dskippy	Jott: But if we need them to fix it I'd rather tell them "Exit and restart" rather than "Exist, wait 5 minutes, restart, if you see the fix, you're good, if not, you didn't wait long enough. Do it again and wait longer this time."	01:07
jott	huh?!	01:09
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jott	anyway, either way should work. via sudoers within your application or with a cron job with sanity checks	01:09
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dskippy	Jott: Using the cron solution provides a race condition that I'd like to avoid. Museum currators are not tech saavy and might mess things up in a way that's hard for me to debug over the phone.	01:10
jott	there are no race conditions if you do it right.. ..	01:10
jott	anyway.	01:11
jott	do as you please..	01:11
dskippy	Jott: Your way is fine, sure. I might use your solution if I can't make this sudoers thing work. But it's not as good for my situation as some other solutions I want to explore.	01:11
dskippy	Jott: If I want them to do an update in the middle of the day there is. Especially if some devices are still off.	01:11
lcuk	dskippy, if they have network connectivity you can use vnc to support them just like a regular pooter	01:12
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lcuk	or ssh even	01:12
jott	dskippy: huh? if you do it right, then there should be no race conditions....	01:13
dskippy	lcuk: The issue is with the N800's. They aren't using any other computer.	01:13
lcuk	read what i put again	01:13
jott	anyway. just use sudoers if you feel better with it..	01:13
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dskippy	lcuk: You want to install ssh or vnc on the nokia's you mean?	01:13
dskippy	I have ssh on the nokias.	01:13
lcuk	then technically it does not matter how far away you are, whichever method you use you have options	01:14
dskippy	I can't ssh into a nokia that is turned off though.	01:14
jott	lcuk: still better to have a system that does not need ssh support at all :) even though it is good to have the option :)	01:15
lcuk	if its turned off they have bigger updating problems	01:15
dskippy	I have the option. In fact that's how I currently do it.	01:15
dskippy	It's annoying to ssh into 30 nokias. I wrote a script to do it for me. But the script fails on the ones that are sleeping or turned off.	01:15
dskippy	I get no guarentee that they will be updated. Hence wanting cron or just a trigger on running my app.	01:16
dskippy	Just a quick note: "user ALL = (install) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/dpkg" didn't work. I added that to /etc/sudoers.	01:17
lcuk	then on startup check for update, download the package and ssh 127.0.0.1 "dpkg etc"	01:17
lcuk	if thats already preconfigured you dont need to mess with sudoers or anything do you?	01:17
jott	dskippy: did you use "sudo dpkg"? :)	01:18
dskippy	Doing dpkg in startup doesn't allow for a mid-day patch	01:18
dskippy	Oh jott: No I'm dumb.	01:18
dskippy	Let me try that again.	01:18
lcuk	if its updated whilst running without giving your software warnings couldnt that cause other issues?	01:19
dskippy	Yeah that worked.	01:19
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dskippy	Alright I think I've got all the info I need. Thanks for the help guys.	01:20
jott	dskippy: have you infos about your project?	01:21
jott	sounds interesting.	01:21
dskippy	jott: Yeah...	01:21
dskippy	One sec	01:21
dskippy	http://aldrichart.org/exhibitions/burgund.php	01:22
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dskippy	the museum's exhbit page	01:22
dskippy	roundware.sf.net	01:22
dskippy	Project page	01:22
dskippy	New York Times write up: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/08/nyregion/nyregionspecial2/08artswe.html?ex=1370577600&en=51d78e69a7cb21f0&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink	01:23
dskippy	Anyway, I have to run. Thanks again for the help guys. I'm sure one or both of these solutions will do just fine.	01:23
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rm_you	psst... someone know how to say "bitch" in german? the offensive context :P	01:51
rm_you	also, anyone know about using US credit cards / bank cards in Deutschland?	01:51
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AStorm	credit cards will work	01:59
AStorm	bank cards - most likely not	01:59
lcuk	gimme the numbers and names and stuff and ill test em for you	01:59
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AStorm	;P	02:00
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jott	rm_you: "hure" or "schlampe" (where "hure" is more of a prostitute and "schlampe" one who does it with everybody)	02:03
jott	rm_you: visa is probably the best choice for cc here.	02:03
lcuk	ummm jott, just so we are sure, how would we ummm pronounce those?	02:03
lcuk	and jott, what do you say as a cuss word when you stub your toe	02:04
lcuk	just a general expletive which doesnt point at anyone in particular	02:04
jott	erm. i guess something like "hoore" and "shlahmpeh" :)	02:05
jott	better lookup exact phoenetics :)	02:05
crashanddie	rm_you, call your bank, and ask with which bank in germany they have an agreement for free withdrawals	02:05
lcuk	did you actually sit there goin "hooor" "hoOOOoor" of fuckit *clickity(	02:05
jott	hehe	02:06
crashanddie	hure is actually like hoorah but with a silent a	02:06
lcuk	mental note, black keyboard with monitor light at the wrong angle really makes my day	02:06
crashanddie	but then again, it depends how you pronounce "hoorah"	02:06
lcuk	<accent="northern">	02:06
crashanddie	<pronunciation="fail" /></accent>	02:07
lcuk	<instrnet_portal><stab_you_in_the_eye />	02:07
GeneralAntilles	Mmm . . . that was a good stak.	02:08
lcuk	ffs @ typing	02:08
GeneralAntilles	s/stak/steak/	02:08
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: Mmm . . . that was a good steak.	02:08
crashanddie	ERROR: EXPECTING CLOSING TAG AT LINE 1	02:08
lcuk	a linuxtag :D	02:08
crashanddie	what other reunions are there this year?	02:08
crashanddie	well, "cons"	02:09
lcuk	junkets :)	02:09
crashanddie	I missed out on TLHOPE, I'm going to miss OSiM and the Maemo Summit	02:09
GeneralAntilles	Ha!	02:09
crashanddie	c'mon, bring it on, this year's the year I'm missing them all	02:09
GeneralAntilles	It's just as well I'm not able to make it. :P	02:09
lcuk	hackers festivals	02:09
crashanddie	[22:07] (ChrisAM) I can't get selinux to turn on.	02:11
crashanddie	[22:10] (cs_weasel) caress it gently	02:11
* GeneralAntilles really wishes he had a decent camera up here.		02:13
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GeneralAntilles	This looks like an endorsement for OMAP3 in the next tablet if _I've_ ever seen one: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=221381&postcount=4	04:07
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mdg	hello! how can a root password be recovered? or is it possible?	04:44
GeneralAntilles	~root-access	04:44
GeneralAntilles	sudo gainroot	04:44
GeneralAntilles	If you've got gainroot, easyroot or rootsh installed	04:45
mdg	I'll give that a try - I can't believe I forgot my root password	04:45
GeneralAntilles	Then passwd <newpassword> once you have a root shell.	04:45
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mdg	none of those are in the mint repos	04:47
GeneralAntilles	Er	04:47
GeneralAntilles	I was assuming Maemo	04:47
GeneralAntilles	Since, well, #maemo. :P	04:47
mdg	I finally got my files downloaded, took forever, and had to recharge my 770, then forgot my root password! ARG!!!	04:48
GeneralAntilles	Typically desktop Linux is a lot more secure than Maemo	04:48
GeneralAntilles	Google may prove useful.	04:48
mdg	I have PPC running Ubuntu so am trying that	04:48
mdg	I'm hoping the problem I had with flasher was because of not having root access	04:50
GeneralAntilles	Well, did it say permission denied?	04:50
mdg	root access denied	04:51
mdg	okay am downloading on the other machine - I have the flasher-3.0 and the hacker.bin. Do I need anything else?	04:51
GeneralAntilles	Try it without sudo	04:54
GeneralAntilles	You may be able to use the USB interface without root.	04:54
mdg	okay	04:54
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mdg	I get flasher-2.0 command not found	04:58
GeneralAntilles	Er, well, did you install it? :P	04:59
* ToyKeeper wonders if zsh is in any maemo repos		04:59
mdg	I downloaded it to desktop	04:59
GeneralAntilles	Did you run it from the desktop?	04:59
mdg	ahhh ....I don't know	05:00
mdg	just double click?	05:00
GeneralAntilles	Well, the desktop isn't in any of your search paths. :P	05:00
GeneralAntilles	~/desktop/flasher-2.0 or similar	05:00
GeneralAntilles	You may be able to drag and drop it onto the terminal window.	05:00
mdg	oh. Does the hackerimage need to go there too?	05:01
GeneralAntilles	sudo <path/to/flasher-2.0> -F <path/to/.bin> -f -R	05:02
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mdg	okay	05:03
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mdg	no luck	05:10
mdg	I give up	05:10
GeneralAntilles	What's the error?	05:11
GeneralAntilles	Still root?	05:11
mdg	still says it cannot find flasher-2.0 after I moved it to ~/	05:11
GeneralAntilles	~/ is not a search path	05:12
GeneralAntilles	You have to tell it where it is	05:12
GeneralAntilles	it's not magic, it can't just find it for you.	05:12
GeneralAntilles	Give it the absolute path.	05:12
mdg	okay I'll try	05:12
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Dekaritae	http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/funny-pictures-your-cat-is-using-the-pooper-scooper-wrong.jpg	05:17
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mdg	nope - I don't what I'm doing wrong or if its just the root thing. Time to give it a rest. Thanks for your help!	05:19
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teamcobra	hi all	05:25
teamcobra	Jaffa, is there any way to get mud-builder to pulldown and make debs of everything needed by a debian source package? I want to port something that has like 900000x dependencies :/	05:26
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GeneralAntilles	qgil broke planet	05:50
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teamcobra	Jaffa: nevermind, got it working, just have to clear some deps up	06:50
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tagarashi	HI	07:32
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tagarashi	Should I be able to use my existing bluetooth cellphone for a internet connection with a nokia n800, also would bluetooth headsets work as well? would they work at the same time?	07:34
GeneralAntilles	Yes, yes, yes.	07:35
tagarashi	cool!	07:36
tagarashi	anyone want to buy a ipod touch? :-P	07:36
tagarashi	lol	07:36
tagarashi	wish i saw the n series before :-/	07:36
GeneralAntilles	I bet you could talk somebody into some sort of trade on internettablettalk.com	07:37
darkblue_B	hmm I just happened to see this	07:38
darkblue_B	so I have a cell phone with blue tooth	07:38
darkblue_B	I can use my data connecton as the connect to my N800 then?	07:38
GeneralAntilles	Sure	07:39
darkblue_B	.. I didnt know that	07:39
GeneralAntilles	As I recall, it even offers to set it up for you on first boot. . . .	07:39
GeneralAntilles	Not sure how one misses that	07:39
darkblue_B	well, aspersions aside, I dont recall seeing that after I flashed the new OS and booted	07:40
GeneralAntilles	Just open up Connection manager and run the Wizard from the menu.	07:40
GeneralAntilles	It's about as easy to set up as can be	07:40
tagarashi	wooa asus R50A.. damn it arg	07:40
tagarashi	im so picky about my mobile devices	07:40
GeneralAntilles	It's huge and expensive.	07:41
GeneralAntilles	With no battery life.	07:41
tagarashi	that sucks :-/	07:41
GeneralAntilles	Well, what do you expect from an Atom powered device? :P	07:42
tagarashi	im not sure.. ive been too broke to keep up with hardware The intel atom sucks?	07:42
johnx	it doesn't suck per se	07:43
GeneralAntilles	For power consumption at the sizes we're talking about, yeah.	07:43
johnx	but they're not in the same MIPS/watt as ARM	07:43
GeneralAntilles	Compared to other CPUs in a similar performance category, yeah.	07:43
Stskeeps	johnx: saw my slightly ugly port of hildon input framework?	07:43
johnx	Stskeeps, not yet :)	07:44
Stskeeps	johnx: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=221728&postcount=19	07:44
Stskeeps	is interesting if we get it to actually pop up decently on the screen :P	07:44
johnx	the actual keyboard app is closed, right?	07:45
Stskeeps	yeah, but there should be a "okay" example one from the open source one	07:45
Stskeeps	else i honestly think they're abi compatible..	07:45
Stskeeps	didn't test fully yet	07:45
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johnx	grr, I need to have another try at making matchbox-keyboard work acceptably	07:49
johnx	anyways, off to work for now. maybe I'll give it a try tonight	07:50
Stskeeps	have fun	07:50
Stskeeps	i'm off to work in an hour too :P	07:50
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atul	Hi am facing "/src/farsight-netsocket-stun.c:317: error: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type	07:52
atul	"	07:52
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atul	How to resolve Its not getting required header but am providing all dependencies very welll.	07:53
n800n	where can i find a dark theme?	07:54
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lopz	night	08:00
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RST38h	atul: probably need to include something else	08:05
RST38h	and report the problem to farsight people - they should get their headers in order	08:06
atul	RST38h:= Yes but not understating what am missing	08:06
RST38h	is there an error message before this one?	08:06
atul	RST38h:= ok but farsight means nokia guys	08:06
atul	RST38h:= no	08:06
RST38h	then report it to nokia guys	08:06
atul	RST38h:= ok	08:06
RST38h	could you show me line 317?	08:06
atul	RST38h:= yes	08:07
RST38h	please do	08:07
atul	RST38h:= line 317 is : server_addr = ai->ai_canonname;	08:08
tagarashi	Garmin uses navteq, what kind of mapping system is provided for the n810 for the GPS?	08:08
atul	RST38h:= but I checked the code base same code work fine as a separate client.	08:09
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GeneralAntilles	tagarashi, either navteq or the other one.	08:10
GeneralAntilles	They're basically the same.	08:10
GeneralAntilles	Don't expect wonders out of either the GPS hardware or software.	08:10
tagarashi	how is updating done?	08:10
tagarashi	ohy ea?	08:10
GeneralAntilles	They offer map updates every once and a while.	08:10
GeneralAntilles	The "Map" application mostly sucks	08:10
GeneralAntilles	There's Maemo Mapper	08:11
tagarashi	so i should just get a 800	08:11
GeneralAntilles	which is a one-of-a-kind sort of deal	08:11
GeneralAntilles	Uses bitmap maps from Google, Yahoo, etc to provide navigation	08:11
tagarashi	onlything is the n810 has the slide out keyboard	08:11
GeneralAntilles	Don't expect a Garmin replacement, though. ;)	08:11
tagarashi	yea even my garmin makes mistakes which is scary	08:11
GeneralAntilles	Maemo Mapper is damn cool	08:11
GeneralAntilles	Especially for hiking and outdoors stuff since you get the satellite view	08:12
GeneralAntilles	but it's not quite as intuitive for driving navigation.	08:12
RST38h	atul: what is ai?	08:14
ricko73	roadmap works great in the US for vector maps. I know there is some work on doing international maps, but the vector data isn't available everywhere	08:14
RST38h	Maemo Mapper won't make mistakes but it won't do routing for you either	08:14
ricko73	I find the GPS in the n810 superior to my blackberry curve	08:14
ricko73	both take a long time to get an initial fix	08:14
RST38h	roadmap is pretty useless outside us wherever I checked	08:15
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ricko73	RST38h: they were adding support for other locations	08:15
RST38h	let me know when they are done :)	08:15
ricko73	I see support for Canada, but I guess that's equally useless for you	08:16
atul	RST38h:= It is structure variable struct su_addrinfo_t *ai. I checked all code it is client code that is working separately fine but when am adding this files to my application it is throwing error I think it is form Makefile.am problem that Error are miss matching.	08:16
ricko73	if you have a large enough flash card, Maemo Mapper would probably be fine	08:17
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summatusmentis	I wish maemo were better usable, fing-erwise	08:30
summatusmentis	finger-wise*	08:31
GAN800	Fremantle.	08:33
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tagarashi	what about recalculating gps location from missing a turn, is it comparable time to a garmin? more than 30 seconds is crap imo	08:43
GeneralAntilles	If you pay for the Wayfinder license	08:45
GeneralAntilles	Maemo Mapper only does on-the-fly recalculation with an internet connection.	08:45
GeneralAntilles	What Garmin are you using that you're wasting more than 30 seconds, anyway?	08:45
LinuxCode	you can download maps for maemo mapper using the download tool	08:46
summatusmentis	GeneralAntilles: we don't know when freemantle is coming out, unless I totally missed news	08:49
GeneralAntilles	summatusmentis, what's your point?	08:49
GeneralAntilles	Sometime in the next 6 months	08:49
summatusmentis	I want it now! :)	08:49
GeneralAntilles	OK, well, whatever.	08:49
summatusmentis	lol, I know, I'm ust whiny :-P	08:49
GeneralAntilles	My point is, Fremantle is where you will get your satisfaction.	08:49
Stskeeps	aka heaven for tablets? ;>	08:50
GeneralAntilles	With Fremantle we get to duel Nokia management.	08:50
summatusmentis	we do? how?	08:50
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* dystopia hopes Nokia Maps will be ported to Fremantle		08:57
GeneralAntilles	lol?	08:58
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dystopia	"requires and internet connection" and "wifi" dont combine very well	09:19
GeneralAntilles	3G?	09:20
GeneralAntilles	It's not as if tethering is at all difficult	09:21
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dystopia	might as well buy a phone with nokia maps then	09:22
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GeneralAntilles	You don't normally carry a cellphone?	09:22
GeneralAntilles	It's "Map", by the way.	09:22
dystopia	Map?	09:23
GeneralAntilles	Yes, "Map"	09:23
GeneralAntilles	The GPS application bundled with OS2008.	09:24
dystopia	paper boy lol	09:24
dystopia	eh that is Wayfinder	09:24
GeneralAntilles	Ah, you're talking about the S60 program?	09:24
GeneralAntilles	Nevermind.	09:24
dystopia	some new TomToms go for 100 EUR http://fahrzeugteile.shop.ebay.de/items/Auto-Motorrad-Teile__tomtom_W0QQ_nkwZtomtomQQQ5ftrksidZp3913Q2ec0Q2em22QQ_frdlpwlZ1QQ_sacatZ131090?_trksid=p3913.c0.m22	09:24
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dystopia	Nokia Maps yes, http://europe.nokia.com/maps	09:25
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dystopia	if i meant Wayfinder I'd have said Map or Wayfinder and wouldn't have wished for a port	09:26
GeneralAntilles	Thus my confusion.	09:26
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* GeneralAntilles really could care less about S60 stuff.		09:26
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GeneralAntilles	So I don't think in those terms. ;)	09:26
GeneralAntilles	'morning, _marcell_.	09:27
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_marcell_	hi	09:27
Italodance	hi qwerty12	09:27
dystopia	ironially Map is just a port of the S60 version	09:27
Italodance	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=221882#post221882	09:27
Italodance	qwerty12 help plz	09:27
XTL	That explains something	09:27
qwerty12	Italodance: it doesn't like the new video resolution, set it back	09:28
Italodance	well if i back it to the previous size then can start?	09:29
qwerty12	It should do	09:29
GeneralAntilles	qwerty12, can I talk you into writing a paragraph or two on PuTTY for Windows users for an SSH article draft I'm putting up?	09:29
Italodance	ahhh what a pity	09:29
Italodance	can u do it?	09:29
Italodance	please do and fix this full screen problem	09:30
GeneralAntilles	https://wiki.maemo.org/SSH#PuTTY	09:30
qwerty12	GeneralAntilles: In all honesty, I haven't SSH'd into my Tablet from Windows much. It may be worth asking lcuk as he always ssh's in from windows using putty?	09:30
GeneralAntilles	OK	09:30
Italodance	!	09:32
qwerty12	Italodance: I'm not bothering to fix it, a lot of games have the bars	09:32
Italodance	but please fix this i need to play it on 800x480	09:32
Italodance	800x480 is ok but how is this problem! ahhh	09:33
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* GeneralAntilles spots an X-Fade.		09:41
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade!	09:41
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X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Pong ;)	09:45
GeneralAntilles	Good vacation?	09:45
X-Fade	Amazing! :)	09:45
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_marcell_	Hi X-Fade!	09:46
GeneralAntilles	The world didn't fall too far to pieces while you were gone.	09:46
X-Fade	Did a lot of diving. Saw some amzing things..	09:46
GeneralAntilles	Though there were a few cold and lonely autobuilder users. ;)	09:46
GeneralAntilles	Oh? Where'd you go?	09:46
X-Fade	North Sulawesi, Indonesia.	09:46
GeneralAntilles	Mmm . . . sounds nice	09:47
summatusmentis	the n810 doesn't handle video very well does it?	09:47
GeneralAntilles	summatusmentis, if you work within its limits, it handles it just fine.	09:47
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Well, today I will try to catch up on all pending things ;)	09:47
thux	i bought cheap gps bt-308 but maemo mapper seems to stuck, isn't that device supported? (n800-diablo)	09:47
rm_you	summatusmentis: sure it does	09:47
rm_you	summatusmentis: try playing this with mplayer:	09:48
summatusmentis	well, those limits seem smaller than I expected	09:48
GeneralAntilles	https://wiki.maemo.org/Video_encoding	09:48
rm_you	~test-video	09:48
X-Fade	Although I have to go to a funeral this afternoon, so short day..	09:48
rm_you	~testvideo	09:48
GeneralAntilles	Sorry to hear that.	09:48
rm_you	hrm	09:48
rm_you	ack	09:48
rm_you	where is infobot	09:48
rm_you	wtf	09:48
X-Fade	Any 'urgent' things for me to look at?	09:49
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, not that I can think of off the top of my head.	09:49
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Sweet :D	09:49
GeneralAntilles	Things went surprisingly well, actually.	09:49
rm_you	summatusmentis: anyway, try this with mplayer: http://www.ageofikon.info/N10-Haruhi.avi	09:49
* GeneralAntilles was hunkered down for the end of days that first week.		09:50
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X-Fade	Well, I think _marcell_ has done a lot of my tasks?	09:50
summatusmentis	rm_you: I've just been trying videos converted for iPod under canola2	09:50
GeneralAntilles	summatusmentis, iPod is usually h.264	09:51
GeneralAntilles	Which is a little heavy without hardware decoding	09:51
rm_you	yeah which SUCKS on n8x0	09:51
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GeneralAntilles	mplayer is even worse with h.264 than the built-in player.	09:51
rm_you	way too CPU intensive to decode without hardware help	09:51
summatusmentis	ah, that might be the reason	09:51
rm_you	summatusmentis: try the vid i linked	09:51
GeneralAntilles	Stick to mpeg4 with mp3 audio at 44.1KHz or less and you'll be good.	09:52
GeneralAntilles	summatusmentis, just, fyi, most of the stuff from certain ahem . . . sources, should work pretty well.	09:53
summatusmentis	GeneralAntilles: duly noted, I think I re-encoded this video from a different file for the iPod, so h.264 is probably the issue	09:54
GeneralAntilles	Most certainly	09:54
rm_you	xvid is good	09:54
rm_you	Still can't get my account on the wiki working :(	09:55
rm_you	i can log in now, sort of...	09:55
summatusmentis	alright, thanks guys. Once the bigger microsd cards come out, I'll re-encode all of my vid files again	09:55
rm_you	but it instantly loses my login	09:55
GeneralAntilles	Ha	09:55
GeneralAntilles	Somebody else was complaining about that	09:55
rm_you	it's like, congrats for logging in, now go to the page you were on.... then i go to the page, and i'm an anonymous IP again >_<	09:55
GeneralAntilles	summatusmentis, check out mediaserv	09:55
GeneralAntilles	Is it https?	09:55
rm_you	yes	09:56
summatusmentis	mediaserv runs on a personal computer?	09:56
rm_you	a PC? yes	09:56
summatusmentis	as compared to someone else providing the hardware	09:56
rm_you	yeah	09:56
rm_you	Jaffa wrote it	09:57
rm_you	>_>	09:57
summatusmentis	let me rephrase, it's something I'd have to install :)	09:57
GeneralAntilles	http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org	09:57
GeneralAntilles	It's a perl program	09:57
GeneralAntilles	that hooks in with mencoder	09:57
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: it does that with http and https	09:57
GeneralAntilles	I use it on my G5 to serve my media library to the tablets	09:57
rm_you	odd	09:57
GeneralAntilles	rm_you, reopen the bug. . . .	09:57
rm_you	yeah i need to find it	09:57
summatusmentis	awesome, I should get a tower setup that's always on	09:58
rm_you	was looking earlier	09:58
summatusmentis	I hate running web services on my macbook	09:58
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GeneralAntilles	Hehe	09:58
* GeneralAntilles hates laptops.		09:58
rm_you	gotta sleep now tho >_> class in the mornin	09:58
summatusmentis	yeah, me too	09:58
summatusmentis	GeneralAntilles: I'm a college student :)	09:58
GeneralAntilles	As am I. :P	09:58
* GeneralAntilles has tablets.		09:58
summatusmentis	touche	09:58
rm_you	as it turns out, my german class professor was ok with me missing class for a week to be in berlin :P	09:59
GeneralAntilles	Ha	09:59
GeneralAntilles	rm_you, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3512	09:59
rm_you	and my compsci profs were ok with me going to a conference :P	09:59
rm_you	my drama profs, on the other hand... >_>	09:59
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summatusmentis	'night all	10:00
rm_you	it's not quite the same bug anymore... just related	10:00
rm_you	anyway, REALLY can't deal with it now	10:00
rm_you	need sleep	10:00
GeneralAntilles	Same issue.	10:00
GeneralAntilles	'night	10:00
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rm_you	wtf	10:04
rm_you	You tried to change the Status field from RESOLVED to REOPENED , but only the assignee or reporter of the bug, or a sufficiently empowered user may change that field.	10:05
rm_you	I AM THE REPORTER	10:05
rm_you	"Reporter: Adam Harwell	10:05
rm_you	"	10:05
rm_you	ME	10:05
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X-Fade	rm_you: That would be a bugzilla bug ;)	10:05
rm_you	X-Fade: can you re-open it please	10:06
rm_you	3512	10:06
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GeneralAntilles	maemo.org hates rm_you.	10:06
rm_you	wait what?! do i have two bugzilla accounts?	10:07
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GeneralAntilles	. . . and I'm with maemo.org. :P	10:07
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Dude.. collision ;)	10:07
rm_you	wtf	10:07
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, I so won.	10:07
X-Fade	heh..	10:07
rm_you	yeah that was MY issue	10:07
rm_you	i apparently have two bugzilla accounts	10:07
rm_you	somehow	10:07
rm_you	no idea why	10:07
rm_you	hovered my name in the initial report and it showed a different email	10:08
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rm_you	maybe, several years from now, i'll finally be able to login to the wiki	10:10
rm_you	maybe i'll make a new maemo account, "rmyou"	10:10
rm_you	whatever I do, it'll be tomorrow	10:11
* rm_you sleeps		10:11
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herwood	hi, does anyone know any good tutorials for Qt + Maemo?	10:36
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GeneralAntilles	http://qt4.garage.maemo.org	10:36
GeneralAntilles	Dunno if there is anything	10:36
GeneralAntilles	but that'd be the place to start	10:36
ariya	just find any good tutorial on Qt first, should apply also for Maemo	10:37
ariya	or do you need Maemo-specific part?	10:37
herwood	Trolltech has good tutorials, but are there some kind of Maemo specific components e.g. Hildon stuff for Qt also?	10:37
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GeneralAntilles	Part of the problem may be that the Maemo-specific stuff pretty new and not really stable enough for tutorials yet.	10:40
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herwood	ok, thanks. I'll just start by learning the basics of Qt first and then take a look at the Maemo specific stuff	10:42
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GeneralAntilles	It actually shouldn't be too radical, anyway.	10:42
GeneralAntilles	The biggest thing will likely be virtual text input	10:43
GeneralAntilles	But I believe GNUton has the pretty well licked already.	10:43
lpotter	as far as I know, the input method is the only thing you really need to take into account.	10:44
lpotter	well, besides the smaller screen	10:44
herwood	yeah, so I can happily use all Qt's components?	10:45
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lpotter	i believe so, but I am not totally sure	10:54
herwood	yeah, I'll give it a try	10:56
lpotter	i didnt have any problems with gutenbrowser or a few other qt apps I tried	10:59
herwood	ok, thans	11:00
herwood	*thanks	11:00
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Mek	the only qt class that seems to be disabled (for no apparent reason, except that it is probably not a very usefull class) is QSizeGrip	11:06
Jaffa	Morning, all	11:07
lbt	'lo	11:07
GeneralAntilles	Howdy, Jaffa.	11:07
herwood	Yeah, I'm so noob with Qt that I quess I wouldn't needed it anyway	11:08
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GeneralAntilles	Ick, another semantics discussion on -community.	12:18
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Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: the IM for QT or? (virtual text input)	12:30
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GeneralAntilles	GNUton got some hooks going for h-i-m with Qt	12:31
GeneralAntilles	I'm not clear on the details	12:31
Stskeeps	yeah, i saw the code	12:31
Stskeeps	i got h-i-m working on debian without hildon environment running, that was kinda interesting (except it looks like crap under openbox..)	12:31
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, I saw the screenshot.	12:32
GeneralAntilles	Good virtual input will make Deblet a lot more usable.	12:32
Stskeeps	yeah, especially for us n800 users :P	12:32
Stskeeps	what i'm most curious about is that if it's possible to drop in the nokia versions.. seems like we have all the libraries	12:33
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baaba	has someone set up a package for theora decoding on diablo?	12:44
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GeneralAntilles	lol, crashanddie, overeactmuch? :P	13:22
crashanddie	No, why?N	13:23
GeneralAntilles	I dunno, the #maemo thing felt a little overreactive to me.	13:23
GeneralAntilles	The only people that "own" community things are the community.	13:24
crashanddie	Jaffa answered exactly the way I wanted	13:24
GeneralAntilles	What, were you envisioning some kind of power play?	13:24
crashanddie	I've seen enough drama around IRC lately, I don't envision anything anymore	13:25
* GeneralAntilles annexes #maemo		13:25
GeneralAntilles	I hadn't realized "community" had such a negative connotation these days. . . .	13:25
crashanddie	lol	13:26
crashanddie	when I say IRC, it's far from meaning #maemo	13:26
crashanddie	trust me, #maemo is my realm of peace	13:26
Stskeeps	indeed, this is nice and peaceful compared to ircd support channels	13:27
Stskeeps	:P	13:27
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, and I don't see how any of my questions/statements could have put "community" in a bad light	13:28
crashanddie	And they were, perfectly legit questions, albeit a bit tongue-in-cheek	13:28
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Jaffa	crashanddie: glad I answered well; my initial reaction was perhaps closed to GeneralAntilles' EOVERREACTION ;-)	13:30
* GeneralAntilles is perhaps just a bit too used to extreme overreactions to the most seemingly innocuous little things.		13:31
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles == darius	13:31
crashanddie	hahaha	13:31
crashanddie	you took the words out of my mouth	13:31
Jaffa	Oooh, negative campaiging can start now ;-)	13:31
GeneralAntilles	I point you to one of the first community council threads on the mailing list where the first person to respond was Darius Jack.	13:31
GeneralAntilles	That's the scenario I tend to react to things like this as. . . .	13:32
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, so you're Iwona?	13:32
GeneralAntilles	No, what I mean is, when people react to seemingly simple statements I tend to assume an overreaction on their part ala Darius.	13:34
crashanddie	Hey, I'm just testing you guys for the vote	13:34
crashanddie	don't flame me afterwards :D	13:34
crashanddie	anyway, got someone here, ttyl	13:34
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GeneralAntilles	In summary, I've gotten a little twitchy. ;)	13:35
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Jaffa	GeneralAntilles the Bird Watcher	13:36
lardman	so when does the vote close then?	13:37
Jaffa	lardman: 2008-09-10T23:59:00Z IIRC	13:37
GeneralAntilles	For kicks: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bird+watcher	13:37
lardman	Just before midnight on Wed	13:37
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: I was thinking more of http://www.bryanappleyard.com/blog/2006/03/twitcher.php	13:38
lardman	GeneralAntilles: hmm, first I've ever heard of that meaning	13:38
Jaffa	lardman: 1am UK time. I think I'll be asleep ;-)	13:38
lardman	Not going to watch the BBC vote countdown then?	13:39
GeneralAntilles	I wondering if it might be useful to introduce a freeze on new nominations a week or so before the beginning of voting to allow for some campaigning in the next election.	13:39
Jaffa	lardman: Will Peter Snow be in in #maemo all night counting down to Indecision 2008	13:39
lardman	lol	13:39
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: Candidates who want to campaign can submit their nomination the day it opens, then they've got a week to campaign. More time needed, y'reckon?	13:40
lardman	I don't know about the whole campaigning thing	13:40
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GeneralAntilles	campaign is a bad term	13:41
GeneralAntilles	I don't like campaigning either	13:41
lardman	sounds like the Romans on the march	13:42
Jaffa	That's why talk of manifestos scare me: too much work and it'll drive the number of candidates down not up.	13:42
lardman	I agree	13:42
GeneralAntilles	I'd rather people just vote for the person they believe is best for the job based on their activity in the community.	13:42
Jaffa	I'd rather see the interview style questions on the ML, or on p.m.o etc	13:42
lardman	I think the blurb we wrote, and mainly what we have already been doing is what people should look at	13:42
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Jaffa	lardman: agreed	13:43
lardman	yeah, interview style questions would be ok once it's know what the council will actually do	13:43
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GeneralAntilles	The week delay before voting might give people time to better consider who to vote for	13:43
GeneralAntilles	Probably pointless, though.	13:44
* GeneralAntilles is still wondering where the hell that voting theory guy came from.		13:44
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lardman	strange the things people know :)	13:44
GeneralAntilles	I have a feeling he may just troll the net for votes to put his 2 cents in on.	13:45
lardman	In the New Scientist article I had a feeling that Rank Voting site was possibly a bit dodgy	13:46
Stskeeps	heh, irc debate for candidates :P	13:46
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GeneralAntilles	Downtime for maemo.org on the 11th.	13:46
GeneralAntilles	The thing is, what's to debate?	13:46
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GeneralAntilles	I don't think any of the candidates are in disagreement over the issues.	13:47
Stskeeps	why vote then? :P	13:47
GeneralAntilles	Well, this election is more about the people than the issues.	13:47
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Jaffa	Stskeeps: to give the council a mandate to represent you, and so when the council says to Nokia you really should do this it carries weight.	13:49
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Khertan_n810	Hi !	13:51
GeneralAntilles	So, in effect, the council is like a walking, talking, tap-dancing petition? :D	13:51
GeneralAntilles	Howdy, Khertan_n810.	13:51
Khertan_n810	gan > you ll get my vote if i can vote :)	13:52
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GeneralAntilles	I certainly hope you can.	13:52
GeneralAntilles	You do have a maemo.org account more than 3 months old, no?	13:52
Khertan_n810	:)	13:52
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: Tap-dancing? Eek	13:52
Khertan_n810	yep	13:53
Khertan_n810	but no email	13:53
Khertan_n810	i ve send a mail to dneary about it	13:53
GeneralAntilles	A disturbing number of people didn't get their emails. :\	13:53
Khertan_n810	yep	13:53
Khertan_n810	i think he is looking why	13:54
GeneralAntilles	It's always something with maemo.org	13:54
RST38h	JAFFA: DOES nOKIA KNOW THAT IT CARRIES WEIGHT? =)	13:54
GeneralAntilles	You can't ever just assuming something will work as planned. :/	13:54
Khertan_n810	but surely modest problem on 770 hacker edition that run maemo.org	13:54
RST38h	Sorry, caps was on =(	13:54
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lardman	always troubles with postal voting	13:56
lardman	they might have all been redirected via Birmingham	13:56
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Jaffa	RST38h: Quim accepted that the council could represent the community and help the communication between it and Nokia. Obviously if all 12,000 people eligible voted that gives it more legitimacy than if 5 do.	13:57
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GeneralAntilles	The press outside of the Maemo community is also a good sign.	13:58
Jaffa	Indeed. Very surprised & pleased by that.	13:58
* Jaffa 's sticking the idea on his CV ;)		13:59
Khertan_n810	?	13:59
Jaffa	Khertan_n810: http://www.openlogic.com/blogs/2008/08/community-liaisons-instead-of-community-managers/ and http://blogs.open.collab.net/oncollabnet/2008/08/maemo-community.html	14:00
lardman	oh drat, have you lot got T-shirts printed yet?	14:02
GeneralAntilles	Khertan_n810, print off a few dozen of yours and sell it.	14:04
* GeneralAntilles really wants one.		14:04
Jaffa	Nope; not very many good (cheap) UK-based people doing them.	14:05
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* Jaffa got T-shirts from cafepress.com for stalkmybrother.com but they were very expensive, and slow to arrive.		14:05
* GeneralAntilles is really disappointed Khertan's excellent submission didn't even make it to the final round.		14:05
lardman	There's a place in Bath that do them for ~£20 but I'm running out of time now	14:06
lardman	not cheap mind you	14:06
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* GeneralAntilles wonders if his buddy in Cuba is having fun yet.		14:07
Khertan_n810	GeneralAntilles: hum i don t think i ll sell it anyone	14:09
Jaffa	lardman: I'm willing to say "meh" to the idea; or I'll take a plain white T-shirt & a marker pen.	14:09
* Jaffa 's going to be travelling light so not have much room for T-shirts anyway		14:09
* Khertan_n810 too		14:09
GeneralAntilles	Now there's a job: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/Hurricane_Katrina_Eye_viewed_from_Hurricane_Hunter.jpg	14:11
lardman	Jaffa: I was just going to bring the one for the whole trip ;)	14:11
Jaffa	lardman: heh	14:13
Khertan_n810	bye	14:13
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Jaffa	lardman: Oooh, http://www.vistaprint.co.uk/ will do a white T-shirt with front logo only for 5.49ukp	14:14
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Jaffa	lardman: Ah, 15.85ukp for a "rush" order which has a 3 day turnaround	14:16
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dneary	Hi Khertan1	14:16
dneary	Khertan1: You got my mail?	14:16
dneary	Khertan1: Normally, you should have received a voting token	14:17
lardman	Jaffa: 7-day delivery isn't too bad, but cutting it fine	14:17
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Anunakin	Hi All!	14:18
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Jaffa	lardman\|lunch: I'm leaving on Sunday for my mammoth round trip	14:42
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Jaffa	Err, p.m.o looks a little b0rked	15:14
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GAN800	Jaffa, reopen 3685 or something close to that.	15:16
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andrewfblack	Hello	15:17
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Jaffa	GAN800: done	15:18
GAN800	Should probably cc qgil	15:19
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crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, I WANT TO HAVE YOUR BABIES	15:32
GeneralAntilles	gtfo	15:32
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* GeneralAntilles can only imagine what crashanddie's been googling.		15:34
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lardman	Jaffa: ah ok, I'm at another conference on Mon, Tue, Wed, then a quick run back to get a flight to Berlin on Thurs	16:37
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lardman	why did /me know nothing about SDK+?	16:42
lardman	until reading the FORTRAN bug message I just got sent that is	16:42
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lardman	Anyway, good to see GCC4 make an appearance	16:43
lardman	is there any abi issue using GCC4 compiled binaries on standard Diablo?	16:44
RST38h	Wasn't gcc4 available before?	16:44
* RST38h is compiling with it under sb2		16:44
lardman	apparently yes, but I missed it completely	16:44
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lardman	ah, looks like the alpha was introduced while I was on holiday	16:45
lcuk	with the key candidates on roadtrips whos gonna pop the champers at results time?	16:46
lcuk	or will gen be sat there shaking up a bottle of flat coke	16:47
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lardman	I thought the results were this week?	16:47
lardman	I'm away next week	16:48
lardman	my fault for my crappy explanation	16:48
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lcuk	lol you are right of course, i just had it in my head that it was sunday	16:48
* lcuk is doublethick today		16:48
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* lardman is feeling particularly tired today, probably the though of signing a contract for a venue		16:49
lcuk	oooh, are you plannin a gig somewhere?	16:49
lardman	Wedding!	16:50
lcuk	good point! so you are sorted now - your part is done? :D	16:50
lardman	not quite, still need to sign the contract and do all the nitty-gritty of organising everything - menus, drinks, etc.	16:50
lcuk	bottle of pop and a few packets of crisps would suffice :D (with maaybe some of them little classy sausages n cheese things	16:51
lcuk	(if only it was that simple for you..)	16:52
lardman	yeah, am tempted by that :)	16:52
lcuk	gah, bbl	16:53
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lardman	Can sdk+ be installed alongside the sb1 sdks?	16:55
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konttori	Hey, as we'll be talking about tracker in fremantle at the maemo summit, I'm welcoming any questions / ideas what to present to you guys on the maemo summit.	17:00
konttori	Anyway, if you are interested and have the time, just ping me or send emails to urho.konttori@nokia.com	17:00
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lardman	konttori: what's tracker?	17:01
konttori	Also, if you guys want to have tracker for diablo already, please also voice out those needs. We haven't decided either way yet.	17:01
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konttori	http://www.gnome.org/projects/tracker/	17:01
lardman	thanks	17:01
konttori	and there has been significant coding since the 0.6.6 release.	17:02
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lardman	any chance the filemanager will be opensourced? ;)	17:03
lardman	I saw someone today asking if it was possible to run binaries from it, apparently not (though perhaps with some conf file trickery?)	17:03
konttori	Anyway, I was planning that we'll show the API a bit, show an example media player, perhaps example object database application (probably just using the daze for that example), a bit on the power of the full text indexing and a bit of ideas how it can be used.	17:04
lardman	sounds cool anyway	17:04
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konttori	lardman: no chance of file manager getting open sourced. Anyway, you should be able to check if you can do things with the hildon-fm (which is open source)	17:04
konttori	(and essentially filemanager is a wrapper around that)	17:05
lardman	ok	17:05
lardman	can I ask why there's no chance? Just out of interest	17:05
lardman	Surely there's nothing too high-tech in side it? Likewise with the media-player	17:05
konttori	well, Nokia has a tendency to not to publish application code. Only FW code tends to be open. It's a policy issue really.	17:06
lardman	fair enough, annoying, but at least there's a reason now	17:06
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konttori	So, the hildon-fm is open, so if you want, you should be able to make a new file manager without considerable effort by using that.	17:07
lardman	yep, just seems a bit wasteful for the standard one to be closed source. Does that make sense?	17:08
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lardman	or the wrapper at least - lots of things could just be replaced with not much effort, in which case why bother having them closed source at all, etc.	17:09
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lardman	anyway, I'm just commenting, not expecting you to turn it all around :)	17:09
RST38h	konttori: what open FW code are you referring to?	17:10
konttori	Yeah, I agree: You can always figure out reasons why it should be opened, but that just won't happen. There are always some reasons why it should be kept closed.	17:10
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mavhc	usually because noone can be arsed to check if they're legally allowed to open source it	17:11
konttori	https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-fm/	17:11
lardman	does that contain a GTK widget which is the filemanager?	17:11
lardman	which would be good - to be able to add extra columns, resize them, etc,	17:12
konttori	https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/doc/api/hildon-fm/index.html	17:12
konttori	Some instructions in there.	17:12
konttori	I really haven't digged to the fm code, so help yourself. ;)	17:12
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lardman	cool, I'll add it somewhere in the list of things to look at ;)	17:13
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konttori	anyway, if you guys figure out issues you want explained about tracker, just let me know.	17:13
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summatusmentis	Khertan1: ping?	17:47
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qwerty12	Someone should get Deluge on the tablets, it pwns Transmission :>	17:54
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Stskeeps	heh - i think torrent on tablets is a bit useless :>	17:56
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summatusmentis	disagree. I take my tablet on campus much more than I do my laptop	17:56
qwerty12	Someone should bring ssvb's performance optimisations to the N800 then :P	17:56
summatusmentis	ssvb?	17:56
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Stskeeps	summatusmentis: any p2p on my campus => they track your wifi position and take a talk to you ;)	17:57
summatusmentis	Stskeeps: my school does not care that much	17:57
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qwerty12	Stskeeps: Eew, remind me not to use p2p in Denmark	17:57
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summatusmentis	if they get a notice from someone, they'll track your ip, and tell you to stop	17:57
summatusmentis	if they get a lot of notices, they send an email to everyone telling them to stop	17:58
qwerty12	In London, no one gives a shit atm	17:58
Stskeeps	qwerty12: it's just uni rules so	17:58
Stskeeps	qwerty12: encrypted ftp and likes they dont care about	17:58
Stskeeps	also dorms arent on campus here, so	17:58
summatusmentis	anyone using mcalendar?	17:58
qwerty12	Ahh	17:58
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summatusmentis	for whatever reason, on mCalendar, when I try to add an even on the n810 side, the timing doesn't sync correctly to google calendar	18:01
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RST38h	moo all	18:04
RST38h	[whoemever I have not yest seen today]	18:04
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summatusmentis	hi RST38h	18:05
lardman	qwerty12: which performance optimisations are these?	18:05
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timeless	hey, i finally saw a nokia n810 on display in a useful location	18:07
timeless	it was @BOS Logan Airport	18:07
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timeless	anyone know why planet.maemo.org looks so strange?	18:13
RST38h	Is it just me or has Quim Gil gone insane?	18:13
* timeless asked first!		18:14
RST38h	yea	18:14
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_julian	does someone know if avahi-qt ist available for maemo as package somewhere?	18:29
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Khertan1	Hi !	18:38
Khertan1	dneary: Thx i ve received your email.	18:38
summatusmentis	Hi Khertan1	18:38
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Khertan	:)	18:39
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summatusmentis	Khertan: is it a known bug of mcalendar for it to not pay attention to am or pm?	18:40
Stskeeps	qwerty12: isn't it qwerty15 by now? ;>	18:40
qwerty13	Stskeeps: God knows >.>. Shitty router is effin up when I'm dl'ing torrents	18:41
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Khertan	summatusmentis: which bugs ?	18:41
qwerty13	lardman: sorry, just got back here. wait a sec please :)	18:41
summatusmentis	whenever I try to add an event within mCalendar, it will ignore the am or pm designation, and sync as am back to Google Calendar	18:41
dneary	Khertan: You've voted, then?	18:42
qwerty13	lardman: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/cx3110x-devel/2008-February/000019.html	18:42
Khertan	dneary: yep thx	18:42
summatusmentis	for instance, if set for 7:00 pm, it'll sync to google as 7:00 am	18:42
dneary	Khertan: You're welcome :à	18:42
qwerty13	RST38h: Got any pointers on compiling EMUTools? :)	18:42
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Khertan	summatusmentis: strange ...	18:42
Khertan	when you enter event you choose am or pm in the hildon widget ?	18:43
Khertan	right ?	18:43
summatusmentis	yes	18:43
summatusmentis	I'm using 0.4.0	18:43
Khertan	hum ...	18:43
Khertan	i ll made some test ...	18:43
lardman	qwerty13: cool, thanks	18:43
summatusmentis	I can pull together a bug report with screen shots if you'd like	18:44
Khertan	could you send me the sync log after making a new event ?	18:44
Khertan	i prefer the log :)	18:44
summatusmentis	where do I find the sync log?	18:44
Khertan	launch it from xterm	18:44
Khertan	with 'mcalendar'	18:44
Khertan	you ll see a lot of text :)	18:44
Khertan	send me it at khertan@khertan.net	18:45
Khertan	pls	18:45
summatusmentis	ok, will do	18:45
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Khertan	see u later ...	18:46
Khertan	bye	18:46
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* crashanddie just sent 60 CVs for PHP-related jobs		18:47
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MangoFusion	crashanddie: 60?	18:53
crashanddie	yup	18:53
crashanddie	I hope I'll get at least one interview with that :P	18:53
florian	crashanddie: learn C ;)	18:53
crashanddie	florian, I know C	18:54
florian	crashanddie: so why PHP? ;)	18:54
crashanddie	florian, I know C, C++, Java, STL, Kernel Programming, Network Programming, I know a whole lot	18:54
crashanddie	they just require experience, which I don't have	18:55
crashanddie	I'd blow their minds if they'd just give me an interview :P	18:55
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murrayc	crashanddie: Today not all employers need on-the-job experience. Personally, I am far more convinced by visible open source activity. Get involved in something. Then send me your CV.	18:56
crashanddie	I am involved, it's just open source is hard to sell decently on a CV...	18:57
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crashanddie	How much of it did I do exactly? "Well, I did the design of those 3 functions, and that one, and that one..." "And that one?" "Well, I worked on it with another guy"	18:57
murrayc	crashanddie: URLs are persuasive. I like to browse svn directories, looking at commits. I like to see bugzilla activity and patches.	18:58
murrayc	crashanddie: I like to see mailing lists to see how people communicate and how they think.	18:58
crashanddie	well then you're one hell of an HR	18:58
murrayc	Small companies are different.	18:58
crashanddie	murrayc, not looking to hire someone in London? :P	18:59
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murrayc	crashanddie: Berlin.	18:59
crashanddie	bleh	18:59
murrayc	Everyone wants to be in Berlin.	19:00
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crashanddie	does your company give financial help for relocation? :P	19:00
MangoFusion	what you do is	19:00
MangoFusion	make your own exclusive php sideproject	19:00
murrayc	crashanddie: Yes, for good candidates.	19:00
crashanddie	My german is rusty, but I should be able to get it going fast enough	19:00
MangoFusion	then you can go	19:00
MangoFusion	"i made that!"	19:00
MangoFusion	and if people use it	19:00
MangoFusion	"i made that and its really popular"	19:00
MangoFusion	and if people like it enough to want to buy it	19:01
crashanddie	yeah, but that requires to already have a job to live	19:01
MangoFusion	"i'm selling it. i don't need a regular job now. bwhahahaha"	19:01
crashanddie	I need a job to live... I'm out of money, out of luck, out of motivation, basically	19:01
murrayc	crashanddie: Seriously, send me some URLs. Make your case. If you are interested in doing C (and a little C++) Maemo work.	19:03
murrayc	Gotta go.	19:03
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crashanddie	murrayc, hell yeah ! email?	19:03
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Gnuton	Hi there	19:05
crashanddie	hey Gnuton	19:05
Gnuton	:)	19:06
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jott	hello gnuton!	19:11
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Mek	hi Gnuton	19:13
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Khertan_n810	Hi again	19:28
Khertan_n810	is there a way to boost audio gain in mplayer ?	19:28
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qwerty12	Khertan_n810: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=158165&postcount=7	19:29
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Khertan_n810	thx qwerty12	19:31
qwerty12	no problems	19:31
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darkterror46	greetings	19:33
darkterror46	:-D	19:33
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lardman	cu tomorrow chaps	19:39
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aquatix	qwerty12: that's in the config file i gather?	19:40
qwerty12	aquatix: yea	19:40
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aquatix	kk	19:40
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melmoth	garage's svn is down...	19:46
Mek	it was't a couple of minutes ago...	19:47
Mek	s/was/wasn	19:47
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Gnuton	Mek, why dont you aggregate your blog in maemo planet?	19:51
X-Fade	Gnuton: Hi ;)	19:52
Mek	Gnuton: I asked for it a few weeks ago, but never got a reply...	19:52
Mek	(and got told the one responsible for it wsa on vacation)	19:52
X-Fade	Mek: Erm sorry :)	19:52
X-Fade	Mek: That is me ;)	19:52
Mek	:)	19:52
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X-Fade	I will catch up on my email asap.	19:52
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Gnuton	hey X-Fade, it`s nice see you again	19:53
X-Fade	Gnuton: Yes, long time no see.	19:53
Gnuton	ah ah	19:53
Gnuton	:)	19:53
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Gnuton	X-Fade, how are you? are you still in vacationÑ	19:54
Gnuton	?	19:54
X-Fade	Gnuton: I see you managed 4.1.1 all by yourself? :)	19:54
X-Fade	*to upload	19:54
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X-Fade	Gnuton: No, I'm back now.	19:54
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Gnuton	X-Fade: yep =)	19:55
X-Fade	Mek: Ik zal je blog nu toevoegen.	19:56
Mek	okay :)	19:56
Gnuton	ok.. router time.. I`ve to explain to my girl how to setup a wireless router...	19:56
Gnuton	see you later...	19:56
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Swaps	3451	19:57
Swaps	ok	19:57
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X-Fade	Mek: Ok, your blog has been added to the planet.	20:01
Mek	thanks a lot	20:03
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X-Fade	Mek: Cool stuff btw ;)	20:07
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crashanddie	X-Fade, ARE YOU BACK,	20:10
crashanddie	???	20:10
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X-Fade	crashanddie: Yep.	20:11
jott	X-Fade: welcome back!	20:11
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crashanddie	X-Fade, wb, I know you must get harassed by emails, but can I ask if my issue has been duly noted?	20:11
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X-Fade	crashanddie: The GPG one?	20:13
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crashanddie	X-Fade, aye	20:13
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X-Fade	crashanddie: Ok, I will send you a new invite, so you can upload your gpg key again.	20:14
crashanddie	X-Fade, cheers	20:14
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X-Fade	crashanddie: Ok, done.	20:14
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crashanddie	X-Fade, btw, is there a bug report about not being able to change SSH/GPG keys easily?	20:15
X-Fade	crashanddie: I don't know. It is on Ferenc's todo list, for sure ;)	20:16
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Stskeeps	qwerty12: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian/h-i-m-matchbox.png <- woop!	20:16
qwerty12	Stskeeps: nice one! :)	20:17
X-Fade	Stskeeps: Looks ugly, but still... impressive :)	20:17
Stskeeps	X-Fade: h-i-m example keyboard ftw	20:18
Stskeeps	:P	20:18
qwerty12	Stskeeps: lets jook the maemo one :P	20:18
johnx	Stskeeps, !!!	20:18
crashanddie	Stskeeps, nice work	20:19
Stskeeps	the sad thing is however that h-i-m looks crap on non-matchbox though	20:19
Stskeeps	or atleast in openbox	20:19
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jott	what has h-i-ms look to do with matchbox? shouldn't that be a sapwood "problem"?	20:20
johnx	Stskeeps, same situation as matchbox-keyboard?	20:21
johnx	jott, nah, not that...how its window is handled...	20:21
jott	ah	20:21
crashanddie	jott, you're the slappedwood problem	20:21
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qwerty12	crashanddie is the problem	20:22
crashanddie	yeah but I'm a mature problem	20:22
jott	never fixed and never touched :p	20:23
crashanddie	I'm pure	20:23
crashanddie	qwerty12, you on the other hand, you're a brand new problem	20:23
crashanddie	qwerty12, everyone's eyeing young	20:23
lcuk	in a desolete unused part of the system marked with "DO NOT ENTER"	20:23
crashanddie	qwerty12, everyone wants to fiddle with you, see how you react	20:23
crashanddie	lcuk, yeah but at least I'm not in Manchester :P	20:24
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qwerty12	The standard stereotypical way, knuckledusters.	20:24
lcuk	good point	20:24
crashanddie	lcuk, do I feel a disturbance in the force?	20:25
lcuk	sorry yer, i couldnt hold it in any more	20:25
lcuk	the smell will dissapate soon	20:25
* lcuk wafts arms around		20:25
* crashanddie uses his armpits as breathing apparatus		20:25
lcuk	the more important question is why are you fighting the world?	20:25
crashanddie	oh shit, bad idea	20:25
crashanddie	lcuk, I'm pissed	20:26
crashanddie	lcuk, I'm tired of "Oh, awesome, thanks, I'll get back to you soon"	20:26
lcuk	not a good combination	20:26
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crashanddie	I think the most obvious and insulting one was the guy who told me he'd call me back cuz he had to go to a meeting, and hung up before I gave the last 3 digits of my phone number	20:27
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* lcuk cannot wait for the communal royalty system to be put in place		20:27
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crashanddie	"Oh, I'm sorry, they're calling me for a meeting, is there a number I can join you at?" "Yeah, 07.787.347..." "Ok thanks, bye, tuuut, tuut"	20:28
lcuk	youch? you havent got a phone number with name have you ie 1800 ILUVEYOURGRAN	20:28
lcuk	cripes though	20:29
crashanddie	I mean, if you're not even going to bother to take the number down, at least pretend, and count the number of digits	20:29
lcuk	downer	20:30
jott	what? your mobile phone number has more than 4 digits? how should we respect you :p	20:31
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crashanddie	jott, I have a 3 digit slashdot number :P	20:32
jott	but really, this is very impolite...	20:32
lcuk	crashanddie, nahhh you cant have	20:35
lcuk	unless its anonymous coward (666)	20:35
crashanddie	I'm the devil's neighbour	20:35
crashanddie	665	20:35
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Stskeeps	johnx: meh, gtk lacks some hildon extensions else it would be possible to drag in nokia kbd ;) but this is good enough for now	20:37
johnx	well, I'd answer his question...but he quit	20:38
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johnx	Stskeeps, I guess I'll focus on matchbox for now, too	20:38
johnx	qwerty12, there's a good reason ntfs-3g doesn't cope with hibernated drives :)	20:38
Stskeeps	johnx: i'm going to test xfce4-wm + h-i-m and see how that goes	20:39
qwerty12	johnx, :), but I wish it would, even it it meant risking data loss (for me anyway :))	20:39
johnx	you should try the matchbox-keyboard layout Navi made :)	20:40
johnx	qwerty12, it would be a pretty big risk. There's a really good chance some of your data on disk is in an inconsistent state	20:40
Stskeeps	johnx: url? :P	20:41
qwerty12	johnx, I'll just sync before hibernating, most of my hibernations are done with all programs closed	20:41
johnx	qwerty12, like kernel32.dll ?	20:41
qwerty12	Maybe not :/	20:42
johnx	Stskeeps, http://www.xenf.net/n800stuff/keyboard.xml	20:42
qwerty12	Meh, I guess even I could remove the check from ntfs-3g	20:42
johnx	drop that in /usr/share/matchbox-keyboard IIRC	20:43
Stskeeps	nod	20:43
Stskeeps	johnx: same result with example hi	20:43
Stskeeps	-i-m under xfce wm	20:43
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johnx	yeah, but the layout is better if you're going to use matchbox anyways	20:44
Stskeeps	tested matchbox + lxde yet?	20:44
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johnx	momentarily	20:44
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Stskeeps	then checked yourself into mental hospital for some weeks? :P	20:44
johnx	I'm just getting setup on a fresh install	20:44
johnx	aaaah, sad	20:45
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johnx	I was wondering why you weren't using it :(	20:45
johnx	what's the problem?	20:45
Stskeeps	hmm?	20:45
johnx	ah, I thought you'd tested it and the "mental hospital" was where you went afterwards?	20:46
Stskeeps	hehe, no	20:46
lopz	hola	20:46
johnx	hola lopz	20:47
lopz	heya johnx !!	20:47
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johnx	ff3 works disturbingly well in deblet...	20:52
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Stskeeps	johnx: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian/lxde-matchbox-h-i-m.png	20:53
johnx	quite nice	20:53
Stskeeps	changed it in /etc/xdg/lxsession/config	20:53
johnx	I did too, but for some reason it didn't take	20:54
johnx	trying again in a second...	20:54
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Stskeeps	i'm not sure why, but it feels like the background desktop keeps on rebooting or something.. nfi why	20:55
johnx	I turned it off to save a little memory	20:55
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johnx	hmm...it's kinda sad how much faster an OMAP2420 is vs a PXA270	20:57
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RST38h	johnx: At the same frequency?	21:05
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johnx	RST38h, nah, the PXA270 is a little faster	21:09
johnx	416MHz	21:09
johnx	armv5 vs armv6	21:09
johnx	intel pulled the "P4 trick" when they designed the PXA series...lengthen the pipeline, then try to compensate with a higher frequency	21:09
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RST38h	ah	21:10
ToyKeeper	Stskeeps: Which onscreen keyboard program is in that screenshot?	21:11
RST38h	poor Intel, that P4 fiasco just keeps on coming back	21:11
ToyKeeper	I've been looking for one which is more configurable than the default, so I can do a fitaly layout.	21:11
johnx	RST38h, well it should! That was such an indescribably stupid "strategy" on their part	21:12
ToyKeeper	I got the regular keyboard to do fitaly, but there seems to be no way to get rid of the huge space bar, so it's really squished.	21:12
Stskeeps	ToyKeeper: hildon input keyboard + example vkb	21:13
Stskeeps	hildon input method, i mean	21:13
Stskeeps	johnx: i've found why matchbox doesnt look fancy docking or whatever in non-matchbox: _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_INPUT	21:14
Stskeeps	.. i think, or _TOOLBAR	21:14
ToyKeeper	I'm not sure how to use layouts such as this: http://www.xenf.net/n800stuff/keyboard.xml	21:15
Stskeeps	that's for matchbox-keyboard	21:15
tagarashi	what kind of package management does maemo use? I'm looking through downloads and I see a lot of GPE applications. ipkg maybe?	21:16
ToyKeeper	Ah, then if I can find that package, I should be able to make a decent fitaly layout.	21:16
Stskeeps	tagarashi: apt	21:17
tagarashi	ok, cool	21:17
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johnx	openbox doesn't honor it? or matchbox keyboard doesn't set it?	21:20
johnx	hmm	21:20
johnx	ToyKeeper, that's for matchbox-keyboard in debian, not hildon-input-method in Nokia's linux	21:20
johnx	tagarashi, dpkg	21:20
johnx	ToyKeeper, errr...There might be a version of matchbox keyboard that works with OS2008...I really don't know	21:20
ToyKeeper	Yeah, I'm looking now. :)	21:21
johnx	Stskeeps, matchbox wm doesn't cooperate with the lxde "task list" it seems	21:21
ToyKeeper	... pondering how much will break if I pull the package from debian directly.	21:21
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johnx	ToyKeeper, possibly a lot?	21:21
johnx	hang on a sec	21:21
Stskeeps	johnx: i would really like not to have to depend on matchbox for proper input method atleast.. it kinda defeats the whole deblet is for the people who want to paint the bikeshed a different colour motto ;)	21:22
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Stskeeps	so i'm hacking on h-i-m a bit	21:22
johnx	Stskeeps, yeah...I guess we keep investigating other WMs or start hacking into one of the input methods...	21:23
johnx	input methods or wms...	21:23
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Stskeeps	think there's most hope in h-i-m really as there's already qt im plugins and such .. and i have an idea in store to make h-i-m work for any x app	21:24
johnx	I guess so, but matchbox keyboard works with unmodified X apps	21:24
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johnx	well, you look at that, and I'll look at matchbox-keyboard and we'll see what happens :)	21:25
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johnx	hey ToyKeeper: http://maemocjk.garage.maemo.org/dists/diablo/user/binary-armel/ :D	21:25
tagarashi	wow usbcontrol i can add external hard drive?	21:27
johnx	as long as they're self powered or need less than 100mA	21:28
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t_s_o	err, is planet maemo breaking down?	21:29
johnx	dunno. my RSS reader is getting spammed with blank posts	21:30
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Stskeeps	johnx: yeah - it works but doesnt dock nicely as such	21:33
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johnx	Stskeeps, in matchbox?	21:36
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tagarashi	johnx, would you know what external drives work with usbcontrol? mA usage does not seem to be a regularly available spec.	21:39
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johnx	tagarashi, usb sticks (ie, flash memory) generally work. hard drives that use an AC adapter are reported to work	21:40
johnx	hard drives (1.8" and 2.5") that don't use an AC adapter won't work unless you find a way to provide additional power	21:40
tagarashi	ok so if its < 100mA it would power from the host?	21:41
johnx	yup	21:42
johnx	I have 2 usb sticks	21:42
johnx	one works the other doesn't	21:42
tagarashi	thats a bummer .. ok thanks	21:42
johnx	usually they work...the one that doesn't is kind of cheap and old and sketchy :)	21:43
johnx	it might even be lying about its power requirements	21:43
MishaS	Jaffa, btw, fbreader is now in extras, you might consider re-evaluating it for diablo :)	21:43
MishaS	(chinook/diablo)	21:44
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Stskeeps	johnx: no sorry, changed to openbox again to mess around a bit with h-i-m	21:45
konttori_	by the way, writing to usb sticks also usually draws more than reading, so even if you were able to read, writing might cause corruption of the usb stick	21:45
johnx	konttori, I've had good luck with it so far	21:46
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konttori_	But, I suppose it's really easy to just attach some battery setup to provide power to the sticks/hard drive	21:46
konttori_	I wonder how easy it would be to draw that power from the n810 battery	21:46
konttori_	it provides close enough correct voltage	21:46
johnx	I was running a rootfs and swap on a usb stick on my zaurus for a long time	21:46
konttori_	nice	21:46
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johnx	3.7v vs 5v?	21:47
konttori_	was the battery 3.7 v only?	21:48
konttori_	bummer	21:48
konttori_	anyway, might still be enough.	21:48
konttori_	I recon 4.5 v would be enough.	21:49
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johnx	aren't li-ion batteries between ~3.7 and ~4.2 depending on charge level?	21:49
ToyKeeper	johnx: Thanks, it seems to work. I'll let you know when I get a working fitaly layout.	21:50
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ToyKeeper	It looks like matchbox-keyboard doesn't handle sliding off keys, but I can't tell for sure yet.	21:50
konttori_	could be. I don't know much about the inner workings of batteries.	21:51
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konttori_	Anyone here who is doing themes?	21:57
konttori_	I need someone to try out the latest version of theme maker that includes support for icons.	21:58
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johnx	alright, I'll give it a quick shot	21:58
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konttori_	can you ping me at urho.konttori@gmail.com and I'll reply with theme maker attached.	21:58
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konttori_	do you use linux? (just curious)	21:59
johnx	yup, ubuntu 8.04	21:59
johnx	I figured you need linux testers, right?	21:59
konttori_	Well, I don't test it myself on linux so, why not!	22:00
konttori_	(target audience for theme maker is osx and windows -> not coders, but artists)	22:00
tagarashi	how does the n810/n800 act when hooked via usb? networking or mass storage device? or could i choose between the two?	22:00
tagarashi	via usb to the pc	22:00
johnx	tagarashi, you can choose	22:01
tagarashi	sweet	22:01
johnx	default is mass storage access to the SD cards	22:01
tagarashi	ohg	22:01
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konttori_	johnx: Thanks! I've sent the package along with few second instructions.	22:03
johnx	got it	22:05
johnx	will test then go to bed :)	22:05
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melmoth	anybody know when is svn supposed to be back ?	22:07
konttori_	thanks johnx.	22:07
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konttori_	oh, after you install (and set to use) a theme with new icons, some icons will only take effect after restart.	22:07
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johnx	maybe I'm being dense but I don't see anything about icons...	22:09
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konttori_	at the bottom of the view	22:15
konttori_	under the optional font file	22:15
johnx	I really don't know how I missed that	22:16
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konttori_	:)	22:16
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johnx	progress seems to have stopped at 1%	22:19
johnx	I'll let it sit for a while	22:19
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johnx	ah, note for linux: make sure to run it from the CLI in the cwd with java -jar foo.jar	22:23
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johnx	Exception in thread "AWT-EventQueue-0" java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Width (-1) and height (-1) cannot be <= 0	22:25
johnx	I'm off to bed for now...need sleep	22:26
dystopia	good night johnx	22:27
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konttori_	night johnx!	22:30
konttori_	http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2008/09/theme-maker-117-now-with-support-for.html	22:30
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konttori_	thanks johnx. I figured that the icons template is mandatory.	22:33
konttori_	that's the reason it was stuck at 1%	22:33
* konttori_ goes to bed as well		22:34
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* Stskeeps shakes his fist at private window manager window extensions		22:39
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lardman	evening all	22:52
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RST38h	evening lardman	22:57
lardman	hi RST38h	22:58
lardman	very quiet here tonight	23:01
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Mek	jott: do you know/remember how the issues with building cmake based stuff on the autobuilder was fixed? As now qt requires qemu cvs-m I'm hitting the same problems locally when building kde stuff...	23:05
RST38h	lardman: anything new with a2dp?	23:06
lardman	RST38h: all finished as far as I'm concerned	23:06
lardman	RST38h: except for the video issue, but I don't know what that is	23:07
RST38h	lardman: so the only stuff left is at nokia's end?	23:07
lardman	RST38h: yeah, in terms of them supporting it out of the box?	23:07
RST38h	lardman: yes. should we start the bombardment?	23:07
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lardman	RST38h: it will be troublesome probably because they use one of the dsp tasks as a mixer	23:07
RST38h	how do they stream headset audio then?	23:08
lardman	RST38h: no, I want to push for some new tasks which can be linked together - with a separate mixer task that can be used by either sbc or eap	23:08
RST38h	yes but this can't happen without nokia's participation right?	23:08
lardman	RST38h: I don't know, not thought about it	23:08
lardman	RST38h: not quickly without them, no, but still doable in the long term	23:09
RST38h	my guess is that a2dp should happen in parallel with headset stuff, at the same level	23:09
lardman	RST38h: I'm not even sure the mixer thing is the problem, that's my guess	23:09
RST38h	oh	23:09
RST38h	lardman: Why not open a bug for A2DP integration and ask dneary to find somebody responsible?	23:10
lardman	RST38h: is there not one already, I think there is	23:10
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* RST38h vaguely remembers opening it, yes		23:10
RST38h	Should kick it around a little bit for all to see	23:11
lardman	certainly	23:11
lardman	we may see something for the next device as I presume the code will need to be re-written entirely	23:11
lardman	the dsp code that is	23:11
lardman	assuming we move to an omap 3xxx that is	23:13
RST38h	does OMAP3 use a different dsp?	23:13
lardman	yeah	23:13
lardman	tms320c6xx	23:13
RST38h	probably will, although I expect to see omap3 based S60 devices first	23:13
lardman	as opposed to tms320c55x	23:13
RST38h	ah...	23:14
lardman	anyone here familiar with libmad?	23:14
RST38h	yes what about it?	23:14
lardman	just trying to get it running on the dsp	23:15
lardman	http://maemo.pastebin.com/m1a7c20c3	23:15
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lardman	just wondering if that indicates a fault, and if so where	23:16
jott	Mek: hm that's bad... i guess we really should consider wrapper scripts for the tools on an sbox installation or evaluate the performance gain.. :(	23:16
RST38h	I would start by looking at the executable map	23:16
RST38h	does ti dsp compiler generate symbol maps?	23:16
lardman	not sure	23:16
lardman	what is one?	23:17
RST38h	check, see what is at address 0x0293d8	23:17
lardman	oh I see, where the failure was you mean	23:17
RST38h	a map will look like a list of labels with addresses	23:17
lardman	yep, hang on let me browse the docs and see what I can find	23:17
Mek	jott: yeah, I guess somehow it should be possible to run a native cmake from an ARMEL target?	23:17
RST38h	but if this message is printed by libmad, it should have "translation fault" string somewhere	23:17
RST38h	look for this one too	23:18
lardman	RST38h: no, that's a message from dsp_dld	23:18
lardman	RST38h: to tell us that there was a fault in the task	23:18
jott	Mek: uhm. that should also be possible. but i am not a real sbox expert.	23:18
RST38h	ok, then map it is	23:18
jott	Mek: another way would be to use a more recent qemu svn snapshot...	23:18
jott	Mek: qemu is really unfortunate :(	23:19
Mek	jott: yeah, that might help too... are there instructions somewhere on how to get a newer svn snapshot?	23:19
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lbt	anyone played with tslib recently?	23:20
jott	Mek: no. basically you need to apply some of the patches that are used in sbox.	23:20
Mek	sounds like fun...	23:20
jott	lbt: me a bit :)	23:20
lbt	did you get anywhere?	23:20
lbt	static linking	23:20
lbt	?	23:20
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jott	lbt: not entirely..	23:21
jott	well actually it needs some debugging i thing..	23:22
jott	Mek: http://outpo.st/qemu-arm-eabi-sb2 might give this one a try.	23:22
jott	Mek: then there is also sbrsh...	23:22
lbt	I was thinking of just getting the modules and combining them into a maemo-tslib	23:23
jott	lbt: want may version to continue to work on?	23:23
lardman	RST38h: nice idea, but the code is relocated	23:23
jott	i bascially removed the dlopen stuff and initialize the modules on demand..	23:23
lbt	go on then...	23:24
jott	lbt: not sure if i just sucked at setting it up or if there is still some major bug in it..	23:24
jott	lbt: http://outpo.st/tslib-1.0-static.tar.gz	23:25
Mek	jott: that one doesn't work; apparently it isn't new enough for the vfp stuff the current qt stuff depends on	23:25
jott	Mek: darn..	23:25
lbt	ta	23:25
jott	Mek: well maybe go for wrapper scripts for now then?	23:25
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jott	Mek: like "SBOX_BLABLA=qemu-bla qmake $@"	23:26
Mek	yeah, I'll try that	23:26
Anunakin	jott, I think better not use patched tslib	23:26
jott	Anunakin: huh? why not?	23:26
RST38h	lardman: ouch	23:26
lardman	RST38h: it may be possible to work out how, but not really necessary atm	23:27
RST38h	lardman: ok, plan b: put a lot of printfs into the code that is supposed to execute	23:27
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lardman	RST38h: yeah, that's what I'm doing ;)	23:27
RST38h	lardman: hehe ;)	23:27
Anunakin	jott: remember, ... I told you about use keylauncher from OpenZaurus project... this emulate all mouse buttons... with stylus... and works for all applications	23:27
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lbt	jott: do you think tslib should/would work whilst maemo is running?	23:29
lbt	I can't see why not : /dev/event/0 is only read	23:30
jott	lbt: i can "cat /dev/input/event3" so... yes i think it should work..	23:30
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jott	lbt: yeah permission too.. its "3" though..	23:30
jott	Anunakin: tbh. i can't remember.. sources?	23:31
lbt	thanks - just pseudo device...	23:31
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jott	lbt: make sure to set TSLIB_TSDEVICE :)	23:36
lardman	when a comparison is done in C between a variable and a static value, is the static value cast(ed) to the same type as the var?	23:37
jott	would be great if you manage to run it .. probably something small and stupid :)	23:37
lbt	ts_parse_vars.c:36: undefined reference to `bzero'	23:37
jott	huh?	23:37
lbt	just peering around...	23:37
lbt	it linked to libts.a	23:37
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lbt	but then linking to my test applet (one of their tests IIRC) gave that...	23:38
lbt	d'oh it had a ts_config() call	23:38
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RST38h	lardman: no	23:43
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lardman	RST38h: how is the comparison performed then?	23:43
RST38h	lardman: or, really, if it CAN be casted it will be, otherwise you are gonna get a warning or an error	23:43
RST38h	lardman: example:	23:44
RST38h	(unsigned long)L == 5 will work	23:44
andrewfblack	Just released a new Matrix Theme and Updated Windows XP theme with Custom Icons. If anyone is interested.	23:44
lardman	RST38h: my question really stems from the problem that pointers are 23bit on the DSP, and I'm wondering if a pointer can be correctly compared to -01	23:44
RST38h	(int)L == 5ULL will cause a warning	23:44
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RST38h	lardman: compare it to NULL	23:45
RST38h	lardman: and you should be fine	23:45
lardman	RST38h: hmm, NULL has the value 0, when malloc fails it appears to return -1	23:45
lardman	RST38h: in 23bit form of course	23:45
RST38h	lardman: that is a wrong malloc	23:45
RST38h	'cause good malloc returns null :)	23:45
lardman	RST38h: most things are wrong on a DSP ;)	23:45
RST38h	ok, do it this way:	23:46
RST38h	(unsigned int)PTR == 0xffffff	23:46
lardman	if(pointer=0x7fffff) or whatever the correct value is?	23:46
RST38h	the above comparison will work no matter what	23:46
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* lardman is beginning to wonder whether he can work out the relocation easily		23:54
lardman	had enough of all these dbg() [printf()]	23:55
lardman	wow, nearly worked	23:55
RST38h	I would go with printfs	23:56
RST38h	you already put some, just put some more	23:56
lcuk	ahhh printfs, like toilet roll after a curry, you can never have enough	23:57
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aquatix	lol	23:57
* qwerty12_N800 hates curry to the dismay of my relatives		23:59

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