IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-09-09

lardman	the problem with printfs (or rather dbgs for the dsp) is that eventually you run out of space to store the static data	00:01
RST38h	well, remove some old ones	00:01
lardman	yeah, well with dsp-tremor I need most of them	00:01
RST38h	but you are specifically looking to solve the libmad problem	00:02
lardman	but yeah, comment out as I go along	00:02
RST38h	so just concentrate your printfs on it	00:02
lardman	oh no, it's on a per-task basis, just commenting on what happens eventually	00:02
lcuk	i thought i was a sucker for punishment, im ever surprised by how much pain you endure for that dsp lardman :)	00:02
RST38h	pain?	00:02
lardman	lcuk: it's a case of finishing what I've started	00:03
RST38h	he has got printfs and malloc and you call it pain?	00:03
lardman	I'd gladly bin the tremor stuff, no-one seems interested, I don't even use it	00:03
lcuk	oh yes, ive got a whole ui class structure to build yet ..	00:03
jott	yeah malloc is a gift :)	00:03
RST38h	his malloc returns -1 on failures though	00:03
lcuk	ive got the individual parts and they work alone, but ive just made a nice bit of glue :)	00:03
RST38h	prolly because his memory starts at 0	00:04
lardman	RST38h: it seem to return a few different values actually, which is slightly worrying	00:04
lcuk	and ends at about 12	00:04
lardman	yep, a whole 12 bytes to use :)	00:04
lardman	0 is saved to check for null pointer errors of course	00:04
lcuk	lardman, do the pointers HAVE to be 16bit aligned and is the result returning odd valueson error	00:04
lcuk	or something equally pie in the sky	00:05
lardman	lcuk: well the byte is 16bits, I don't think it needs to be aligned though	00:05
RST38h	ok, this laptop is gonna die in a moment	00:05
lardman	RST38h: thanks for your help, before you go	00:05
derf	lardman: _I'm_ interested.	00:06
lardman	derf: ok :) not many people are interested then ;)	00:06
lardman	derf: with that said, I need to work out what I can remove from the memory allocation, and see if I can get away without going back to the slab allocator	00:06
derf	BTW, the QR code stuff is now correctly accounting for projective distortion and picking out all the alignment patterns.	00:07
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lardman	derf: great! :)	00:07
derf	All the remains is the actual decoding part.	00:07
lcuk	derf! excellent	00:07
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jott	derf: sounds good!	00:07
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derf	Just that part was about 3000 lines of code.	00:07
jott	derf: how does it perform on the device? have you tried?	00:07
derf	jott: Not yet.	00:07
derf	It's pretty dang fast on the PC, though, except for the PNGs I'm writing out all over the place.	00:08
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derf	Just for added challenge, I'm also not using any floating point.	00:08
* lardman wonders if he's actually got some pcm out of the mad task		00:09
lardman	derf: Q31 or something like that?	00:09
derf	lardman: Much more complicated than that.	00:09
lardman	:)	00:10
jott	wizardry!!	00:10
lardman	?	00:10
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derf	I actually don't use any 32x32->64 bit multiplies at all.	00:11
derf	Which I was fairly surprised to be able to get away with.	00:11
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* ccooke laughs		00:12
lcuk	derf, what are you using to write pngs, gstreamer?	00:12
derf	lcuk: libpng.	00:12
ccooke	The correct solution for a CGI program running on my tablet is, of course, to have the CGI script run bash...	00:13
derf	It's just for debugging.	00:13
lcuk	i couldnt get that initialized, can you tell me what libs and flags you use	00:13
derf	Initialized?	00:14
lcuk	ive got it installed but couldnt find a -dev package for it	00:14
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lcuk	yer, ive got jpeg loading code and a block of png loading code using libpng, but i cant find the -dev so have no headers or objects	00:14
lardman	http://maemo.pastebin.com/m718ceb30 a lack of major errors which is nice	00:15
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derf	libpng12-dev - PNG library - development	00:15
derf	I just link with -lpng	00:15
lcuk	:( apt-cache search libpng12-dev	00:15
lcuk	Nokia-N810-23-14:/media/mmc1/liqbase_www_jpeg#	00:15
derf	That was	00:16
derf	[sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: ~] > apt-cache search png	00:16
lcuk	can you pastebin your sources ? :)	00:16
lcuk	evas and the runtime	00:16
qwerty12_N800	lcuk: quick + dirty way : http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/libp/libpng3/	00:16
derf	It's just r.m.o, the sdk binaries, and deb http://tuomas.kulve.fi/debian/ chinook maemo	00:17
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derf	(Yes, I know Chinook is old, but I'm too lazy to upgrade)	00:17
lardman	how weird, when I remove the comments from the various fns I get a translation error, but with them, it runs ok	00:18
lcuk	hmmm, thats why then - im only using the defaults, qwerty12_N800 how do i convert that path to a proper repo deb line	00:18
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lardman	I wonder if my compiler is compiling something away that it shouldn't	00:18
qwerty12_N800	lcuk: wait a sec, i've got it here	00:18
lcuk	ta	00:18
qwerty12_N800	~lart h-a-m	00:20
* infobot holds h-a-m to the floor and spanks him with a cat-o-nine-tails		00:20
lardman	the chimp?	00:21
lcuk	i think hes trying to cut n paste from app manager	00:21
lcuk	i just tried this and it failed	00:21
lcuk	deb http://repository.maemo.org/ diablo free non-free	00:21
qwerty12_N800	deb http://repository.maemo.org/ diablo sdk/free tools/free sdk/non-free tools/non-free	00:22
lcuk	thanks :D	00:22
lcuk	oh look :D libpng12-dev - PNG library - development	00:22
* lcuk knows where he went wrong		00:23
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lcuk	derf, without you i wouldnt have realised i needed the 12	00:24
lcuk	\o/	00:24
* lcuk runs to put it in		00:24
liri	is anybody using the GPE calendar with google sync?	00:25
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* qwerty12_N800 curses after finding out dpkg-dev will take 30MB of space on the /		00:27
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* sp3000 giggles		00:29
sp3000	so first I'm like ok meh mark goes off on a rant when seeing something he disagrees with in a conversation	00:30
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sp3000	then I'm like ok wtf mark goes off on roughly the same rant one intervening message and 33 minutes later when seeing something he agrees with in the same conversation	00:31
sp3000	some people get all the energy :P	00:32
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ccooke	IS there a decent superserver for maemo?	00:33
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qwerty12_N800	Does anyone happen to have a dpkg-repack package?	00:34
sp3000	(preferably dpkg-repacked, for that distinctive flavor of recursion)	00:35
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ccooke	qwerty12_N800: no, but you can script up a substitute pretty easily	00:36
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sp3000	oops, two messages and 92 minutes later, let's not be unfair here	00:36
qwerty12_N800	ccooke: Heh, probably not me :/. I'll hit up the sbox in the morning.	00:36
lardman	ow, just deafened myself with very loud static	00:36
ccooke	qwerty12_N800: if you can't find one, remind me - I've probably got a script for it lying around somewhere	00:37
* ccooke does a lot of shell scripting		00:37
qwerty12_N800	lardman: /Now/, would you rather listen to my music? ;P	00:37
qwerty12_N800	ccooke: Might take you up on that, thanks.	00:37
sp3000	qwerty12_N800: isn't that what he said he just did :P	00:38
qwerty12_N800	sp3000: :P	00:38
lardman	qwerty12_N800: yeah, might sound better now too! ;p	00:38
qwerty12_N800	hehe, I did the same thing. mplayer rc2, a2dp, full volume...	00:39
ccooke	How's a2dp support coming along? Still a massive battery drain	00:39
ccooke	?	00:39
lardman	ccooke: I've not tested the battery life using the DSP, if anyone is bored and fancies doing a comparison I'd like to hear	00:40
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ccooke	Damn. It looks like there's no inetd already ported to maemo. Is that the case, or am I just blind?	00:41
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jott	qwerty12_N800: http://outpo.st/dpkg-repack_1.28_all.deb but you need a gnu tar in /bin/tar for it...	00:43
qwerty12_N800	jott: thanks! already got gnutar symlinked there :)	00:44
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lcuk	balls!	00:49
* qwerty12_N800 prefers saying bollocks		00:49
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elekt	pollocks!	00:49
* elekt throws paint @ #maemo		00:50
jott	quark!	00:50
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elekt	frak?	00:50
lcuk	if i am to do alpha blending using a proper alpha channel source i need to allocate 5 bitplanes!	00:50
lcuk	:D frak	00:50
* lcuk shoots a cylon		00:50
* jott hands lcuk a towel		00:51
jott	better stuff your bitplanes on it	00:51
jott	its very flexible	00:51
lcuk	its not a problem, but its a glitch in my plan	00:51
lcuk	because the UV planes are each half resolution, i cannot simply pass a reference to the primary alpha - the routine would not know how to handle a double res plane (some of the time)	00:52
lcuk	and rather than fucking im just gonna allocate an extra half res one	00:52
jott	lcuk: maybe alpha in uv resolution is sufficient?	00:53
lcuk	its all derfs fault though for mentioning saving pngs	00:53
lcuk	maybe,but then the function which blends a single channel bitplane (Y or U or V) would still need to know, this time do it at half resolution, and others do it at full	00:54
lcuk	but memory wise it would make things simpler	00:54
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lcuk	yes jott, and it would hopefully allow a bit of optimisation	00:55
lcuk	excellent idea :)	00:55
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* lcuk wasnt doing bitmaps tonight, ive got a style library to write		00:56
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konttori_	Averyone seen this? http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3662	01:08
konttori_	koffice for maemo	01:08
konttori_	Installation instructions: http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3624	01:09
konttori_	(contains repository links)	01:09
konttori_	perhaps someone could make a .install link for the guy	01:09
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qwerty12-N800	Sounds like Mek on here :>	01:10
Mek	yeah, that is my blog :)	01:11
qwerty12-N800	Nice work , I think I just need to set up an mmc boot :)	01:12
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* sp3000 gets personal on -users		01:15
sp3000	someone tie my hands now	01:15
* jott ignores -users		01:15
jott	problem solved :)	01:15
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jott	Mek: does it work with a wrapper script?	01:16
Mek	jott: that is still a bit tricky, as essentially it is only cmake that needs to run with the normal qemu, and everything else with the svn version, but that everything else includes programs that are build by cmake, so I need to do some cmake magic to change stuff between building and executing of them...	01:19
jott	yuk.	01:20
jott	~lart qemu	01:20
* infobot slaps a compatible dib on qemu's head		01:20
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Mek	perhaps I could write my own qemu-replacement binary that somehow decides based on what is being run which real qemu to exec	01:20
jott	Mek: would be great to know why qemu fails and have a proper fix..	01:20
jott	or better why cmake fails under the cvs-m version..	01:21
jott	(afair it worked for my - that is even stranger)	01:21
Mek	yeah... fixing qemu would of course be the best solution...	01:21
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jott	Mek: oh, i just realized i gave you the wrong qemu... http://outpo.st/qemu-arm-0.9.2-svn was the one i meant...	01:23
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jott	that's a recent svn snapshot with some of the important patches backported by me.	01:25
jott	if it turns out that it works for you, it might be worth to double check the necessity of the patches i left out and make it proper...	01:26
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Mek	jott: uhm, that one only shows me usage information whenever I try to run something...	01:27
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jott	huh?!	01:27
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lcuk	:D heh, can anyone guess what the search and replace was: // blend blending from an actual blend channel	01:27
* jott is confused		01:27
jott	lcuk: will it blend? :)	01:28
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lcuk	i think it will	01:28
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jott	gna	01:30
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cactaur	Hey, does anyone know what the function of icd2 is on Diablo?	01:55
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qwerty12_N800	Internetz	01:55
cactaur	Because it's currently running up about ~98% of the CPU according to top.	01:56
cactaur	And I'm not even connected yet.	01:56
jott	it tries so hard to get connected :)	01:57
jott	that does not sound normal though..	01:57
Mek	jott: I think what might be happening is that scratchbox passes --sbox-call to qemu which perhaps your qemu version does not understand?	01:57
jott	Mek: yes.	01:57
jott	Mek: sorry.	01:57
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jott	Mek: the first qemu was the right version.	01:57
jott	Mek: i mixed something up there - so apparently there is another patch missing. :(	01:58
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Mek	okay, the first one exist with a "qemu: uncaught target signal 4 (Illegal instruction) - exiting" when trying to run a qt application (built with vfp like the packages currently are)	01:59
Mek	s/exist/exits	01:59
jott	yes.	01:59
jott	confirmed.	01:59
jott	i was pretty sure it worked once... bah..	02:00
Mek	well, previously the qt packages didn't had vfp enabled, and everything just worked :)	02:01
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jott	Mek: no with vfp ofcourse..	02:02
Mek	ah, okay :)	02:02
* jott hates qemus crappieness		02:02
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jott	mhh	02:04
jott	http://qemu-arm-eabi.wiki.sourceforge.net/?f=print	02:05
jott	i thought this project was abandoned...	02:05
jott	they made some changes	02:05
jott	Mek: mind to test it? qmake works with it	02:06
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jott	don't know about your cmake problem :d	02:06
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Mek	I'll try it	02:06
jott	oh i actually tried the trunk version..	02:06
jott	don't know if it is different	02:07
jott	there are a bunch of scripts in there...	02:07
jott	svn co https://qemu-arm-eabi.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/qemu-arm-eabi/trunk	02:07
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lardman	night all	02:07
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andre___	party on.	02:07
jott	first run get-qemu.sh	02:07
jott	then build-*	02:08
Firebird	since were talking about qemu, how would one go about installing a qemu-arm binary, when ever I try to use one that I've installed it says cannot found even though the file (qemu) is there	02:08
jott	Firebird: installed where? and how? :)	02:09
Firebird	jott, copied it into devkits/cputrans/bin then added it to the methods file	02:09
jott	ok.	02:10
Firebird	it says "cannot find file/at/path/qemu-arm-blahblah" even though it does exist at that exact path	02:10
jott	is it executable?	02:10
Firebird	yep	02:10
Firebird	I can even run it manually	02:10
jott	which qemu did you use?	02:10
Firebird	from source	02:11
Firebird	0.9.1	02:11
jott	the vanilla svn version does not work	02:11
jott	sbox uses a couple of patches	02:11
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Firebird	so I need to apply those patches?	02:11
jott	yes	02:11
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jott	http://qemu-arm-eabi.wiki.sourceforge.net/	02:11
Firebird	ah	02:12
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jott	i just realized that they maintain newer patches as it seems.	02:12
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jott	well actually the qemu-erm-eabi is at r4993 and upstream is at r5181	02:14
jott	i guess it's just a matter of luck that you find a qemu that works with all the applications you use :/	02:15
Mek	jott: yay, that version seems to at least work better than anything so far :)	02:16
jott	woot	02:16
jott	ok good news ;)	02:16
jott	still a messy situation..	02:17
jott	i guess this need to be documented somewhere :/	02:17
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Mek	yeah... I guess if tonight my entire kde build suceeds I'll blog about this tomorrow...	02:18
jott	Mek: sweet.	02:18
GeneralAntilles	oh dear christ	02:19
jott	have you a working digikam? :)	02:19
Mek	I do, why?	02:19
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* GeneralAntilles doesn't know how anybody deals with -users.		02:19
jott	ah like to play with it. as maemo misses a decent "basic" photo editor...	02:20
GeneralAntilles	andre___, isn't Mark just such a wonderful person? :P	02:20
jott	lol quim spammed my planet feed :p	02:20
andre___	shrug I just wonder if I should reply an "I meant everything as I wrote it, and I'm a native speaker of course"	02:21
andre___	but in general, I don't care that much. Had enough conflicts in the last days, one more or less... don't care...	02:21
jott	Mek: it's not your repo yet :/	02:21
GeneralAntilles	I hate that guy.	02:22
GeneralAntilles	He turns every discussion he's involved in into a flamewar	02:22
andre___	haha	02:22
andre___	ok, i should reply then ;-))	02:22
GeneralAntilles	He's really an ass	02:22
GeneralAntilles	that likes to trumpet himself as a crusader for the protection of the common man from the horrible oppressive geeks.	02:23
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andre___	done. cigarette, sleep, breakfast, work. now that's a plan!	02:28
GeneralAntilles	Woo	02:28
andre___	hej, you wrote a message too :)	02:29
GeneralAntilles	I probably shouldn't have	02:29
GeneralAntilles	but I'm so sick of his BS.	02:29
andre___	I can only answer "shrug" on such stuff. Seen too many flamewars in the last years, don't get sick anymore, it just bores me :)	02:31
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* sp3000 comes back from tv		02:40
sp3000	I didn't stir anything did I?	02:40
sp3000	toldya shoulda tied me up :P	02:40
GeneralAntilles	sp3000, nah, he can stir even the most innocuous little things into a shitstorm, all on his own.	02:42
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, that's the overreaction reaction I reflexively respond to.	02:42
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andre___	"overreaction reaction", heh... "I misunderestimated that."	02:44
crashanddie	eh?	02:45
crashanddie	who hates me?	02:45
GeneralAntilles	When I tried to describe it this morning, it turned into GeneralAntilles == Darius	02:45
GeneralAntilles	My attempts at greater precision have failed. :P	02:45
andre___	having several accounts/identities on one mailing list and starting flamewars with oneself?	02:46
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, ???	02:46
andre___	oh, you good old scriptkiddie times :-D	02:46
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, check -users.	02:46
crashanddie	erhm	02:47
crashanddie	link? :-°	02:47
GeneralAntilles	http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-users/2008-September/022404.html	02:47
andre___	well, I AM arrogant. no need to discuss that :-P	02:48
GeneralAntilles	This sort of shit is why I jump to the conclusion that responses that seem over-the-top are over-the-top (like your IRC message this morning).	02:48
crashanddie	oooh	02:49
* andre___ wonders who "you" is and which timezone "morning" refers to		02:49
crashanddie	andre___, I was a bit mischievous this morning on -developers, and challenged ideas about #maemo being part of maemo.org or the widespread Maemo Community	02:50
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andre___	ah	02:51
andre___	yeah, saw that	02:51
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sp3000	that said, mail usage is a shitstorm by its nature	02:52
sp3000	people have their own personal crazy workflows and setups that conflict with each other	02:53
crashanddie	you get that on each medium	02:53
sp3000	although the modest account switching thing (haven't personally met it) doesn't sound like something that really serves any case beautifully	02:53
crashanddie	half reading on IRC cuz you have meat in the pan, faulty argumentation cuz you want to prove a point on the mailing list because you want to catch the last bus	02:54
sp3000	I dunno, mail seems to get it more than others	02:54
crashanddie	people should just learn to stfu sometimes, especially on mailing list, you have the time to ponder your ideas and formulate them	02:54
GeneralAntilles	Mailing lists are weird like that	02:54
GeneralAntilles	They tend to drag in the strangest types of people	02:54
crashanddie	but there's one thing that annoys the fuck out of me on the mailing lists	02:54
crashanddie	QUOTING!	02:55
GeneralAntilles	IRC and forums are more consistent.	02:55
sp3000	hahaha	02:55
sp3000	QUOTEFIGHT	02:55
* GeneralAntilles doesn't come from a mailing list background and is probably doing it wrong.		02:55
crashanddie	you see emails with a 300lines+ trailing message	02:55
derf	GeneralAntilles: Just don't top-post and there won't be any blood.	02:55
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, haven't done any of that.	02:56
sp3000	the nice thing with irc is proper asshats get out of hand and then banned in real time with relatively little drama	02:56
GeneralAntilles	I tend to delete a lot of cruft when I'm quoting	02:56
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, which is the correct way of doing things	02:56
GeneralAntilles	I've no idea why a lot of people insist on quoting automatically generated signatures.	02:56
crashanddie	Less than 10 lines of quoting + bottom-posting = perfect, 10-20 lines of quoting + bottom-quoting = ~medium, but depends on quality of signal, 20+ lines of quoting or top-quoting = nightmare	02:57
crashanddie	signatures = less than 4 lines	02:57
crashanddie	no, me a newsgroup moderator? No way ;)	02:58
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GeneralAntilles	The "CONFIDENTIAL AND PRIVATE" signatures crack me up.	02:59
sp3000	I can't fucking believe it	02:59
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, they're the most stupid thing invented since the marketing-driven 3+ blades razors	02:59
* GeneralAntilles has a 5-blade razor. :P		03:00
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crashanddie	Double edge security razor = win	03:00
GeneralAntilles	I've tried every number of blades	03:01
GeneralAntilles	The 5-blade is the only one that doesn't chew me up.	03:01
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, you just don't have proper technique	03:01
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, yeah.	03:01
sp3000	instead of paying any attention to the personal part, he goes off on a rant on the case in point item I included just in case it was needed	03:02
GeneralAntilles	I like the thread where he blew up in Igor's face.	03:02
sp3000	what, do I need a HELLO I'M TRYING TO SAY SOMETHING POTENTIALLY PERSONALLY OFFENSIVE intro to make that register?	03:03
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crashanddie	most important part, pre-shave. Take a shower before shaving, massage the skin lightly with very hot water, rinse your face with hot water and keep it very wet, lather up, don't use pressurised foam, that's just bullshit, use a regular shaving cream/gel, keep your blade hot and very wet, and only one pass, even if you missed a bit, never pass on your skin a second time when there's no lather	03:03
GeneralAntilles	<thisisthepartyouwanttogetworkedupover></thisisthepartyouwanttogetworkedupover>	03:03
crashanddie	<flame></flame>	03:04
sp3000	crashanddie: I lost you at hot and very wet	03:04
GeneralAntilles	Ha	03:04
crashanddie	sp3000, I'm right there	03:04
crashanddie	well, not atm	03:04
crashanddie	ok, that came out wrong	03:04
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crashanddie	also, do multiple passes, and shave in the same direction as the hair growth, NEVER against it	03:06
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GeneralAntilles	Yes, yes, I know. ;P	03:06
crashanddie	I enjoy shaving, I have different kind of blades to go with my mood, from ninja sharp blades for when I have death wishes to blades that are very forgiving, in case I'm in a rush, I have different kinds of lather, soap, cream, you name it, and yes, I use a brush :)	03:08
GeneralAntilles	Fetishist, eh?	03:08
GeneralAntilles	hot and wet	03:08
GeneralAntilles	it all makes sense now	03:08
crashanddie	I just like to be reminded of my night when I wake up ;)	03:09
crashanddie	ok I admit, that was just the inner geek wishful thinking right there	03:09
GeneralAntilles	Ehehe	03:09
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GeneralAntilles	Fried chicken and rice	03:15
crashanddie	sadly, this is a very good example of very poor quoting: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-users/2008-September/022430.html	03:16
GeneralAntilles	I think qgil takes the cake for poor quoting practices by your metrics.	03:16
crashanddie	really?	03:17
jott	there is always http://learn.to/quote :)	03:18
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crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, actually no	03:18
crashanddie	He also renames topics on the fly, which isn't bad practice	03:19
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* sp3000 sighs		03:58
sp3000	SOMEONE IS WRONG ON THE INTERNET	03:58
* sp3000 gives it a day		03:58
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GeneralAntilles	Haha	04:00
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* ccooke wonders if the SOMEONE being WRONG on the INTERNET was wrong in a way he hasn't encountered yet.		04:01
ccooke	Probably. There's so much wrong...	04:01
GeneralAntilles	It's like Pokemon	04:01
GeneralAntilles	"Gotta correct them all!"	04:01
ccooke	you have to experience it all... before the charges of homicide start to stack up?	04:02
ccooke	ah, well. It keeps things interesting.	04:02
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ccooke	For instance, It's 2am here, I have work in the morning and instead I'm hacking on a bastardised RSS archiver for my tablet. Anything interesting has to be a bonus.	04:03
aspect	oh sweet	04:11
aspect	xournal can open pdfs \o/	04:11
ccooke	aspect: and edit them, which is better :-)	04:17
aspect	yeah. I just discovered this by accident downloading a pdf on my tablet/notebook which doesn't have xpdf installed. made me very happy!	04:18
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derf	It uses pdftoppm, which comes from xpdf.	04:22
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crashanddie	OMFG I just had a fox sniff my ass and run away	05:03
GeneralAntilles	Are you sleeping out on the yard or something?	05:03
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crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, I'm outside with the laptop so I can smoke freely	05:22
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mdg	hello! I am trying to download Mplayer to my Nokia 700 running OS2006. What is the "helper" application that seems to be missing?	05:43
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mdg	When I try to download mplayer from the maemo website I have a download error "/tmp/player-1.install could not be opened because the associated helper application does not exist. Change the association in your preferences."	05:46
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mdg	Y'all are quiet tonight :)	05:47
mdg	hello anyone	05:50
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gregorovius	mdg: os2006?	05:57
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mdg	I've tried and tried to install Hackeros 2007 - no luck	06:03
summatusmentis	hi all	06:05
gregorovius_	does os2006 have a repository manager?	06:05
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mdg	how do I add mplayer to my nokia 770 - os 2006	06:09
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mdg	found it - tools > application manager	06:13
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summatusmentis	how many people use their tablet for dev as well as for day to day use?	06:16
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gregorovius	that's what I was talking about :)	06:19
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mdg	how can I add the application repositories list to /etc/apt/sources.list on my nokia?	06:33
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ToyKeeper	Well, I've got a working fitaly keyboard now, but it still needs some tweaking.	06:38
ToyKeeper	http://toykeeper.net/tmp/maemo-fitaly-1.png	06:38
ToyKeeper	http://toykeeper.net/tmp/keyboard-fitaly.xml	06:39
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ToyKeeper	Hmm, I should swap the sections, to make typing easier for right-handed people.	06:43
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ToyKeeper	Yes, much better.	06:56
ToyKeeper	http://toykeeper.net/tmp/maemo-fitaly-2.png	06:56
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gregorovius	ToyKeeper: what's that layout for?	06:59
ToyKeeper	Optimized for english single-finger typing.	06:59
ToyKeeper	It minimizes the distance between consecutive letters, on average.	06:59
ToyKeeper	Qwerty/dvorak both tend to maximize the distance, since they're designed to alternate hands as much as possible.	07:00
gregorovius	I guess single-finger applies for stylus as well	07:00
gregorovius	not a bad idea	07:00
ToyKeeper	There's some weirdness in matchbox-keyboard with exact key sizing... like a key with width=3000 isn't the same width as three keys with width=1000.	07:01
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ToyKeeper	I haven't had much luck with attributes like 'fill="true"' either.	07:02
ToyKeeper	Anyway, when I get things tweaked more, I'll try to get it included in the package.	07:02
ToyKeeper	It's almost a direct copy of my fitaly layout for openembedded: http://toykeeper.net/ipaq/gfx/screenshots/2002-11-11.fitalyslashdot.png	07:03
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GeneralAntilles	woot.com	08:09
GeneralAntilles	If anybody needs a backup unit	08:09
ToyKeeper	... backup battery?	08:10
GeneralAntilles	Yeah	08:10
ToyKeeper	I was hoping for a cheap NIT. I was sad when I missed their 770 sale.	08:11
GeneralAntilles	I need to pick up a battery pack to make my Beagle a bit more mobile.	08:11
Italodance	%80 users are american here yes!?	08:12
GeneralAntilles	Need something a bit smaller, though.	08:12
GeneralAntilles	Italodance, uh, no.	08:12
GeneralAntilles	Why is that with an exclamation point? :\	08:12
Italodance	hehe	08:12
Italodance	cos IT only sell in USA	08:12
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tekojo	Morning	08:14
GeneralAntilles	Howdy	08:14
tekojo	How's life?	08:14
tekojo	and the beagle	08:14
GeneralAntilles	Waiting for the next weekend. ;)	08:14
GeneralAntilles	Suffering in its own little Catch-22.	08:15
timelyx	Italodance: Nokia sold the tablet on their web site	08:16
rmrfchik	err, why media player don't see my music on external card (/media/mmc1/music/.../*mp3)?	08:18
timelyx	rmrfchik: it uses a crawler, which if running should find the music...	08:19
rmrfchik	and how to run a crawler?	08:19
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GeneralAntilles	The crawler can fail for a variety of reasons.	08:19
tank-man	maybe its still indexing the mp3s	08:19
GeneralAntilles	It should take care of itself.	08:19
rmrfchik	i put files to card on thursday	08:20
rmrfchik	5 days ago	08:20
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GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, ping.	10:08
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Pong.	10:11
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GeneralAntilles	Did you ever get the logs from the last sprint review?	10:13
GeneralAntilles	http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting still needs to be updated.	10:13
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X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: I should have logged it, let me check.	10:14
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X-Fade	Yes, I have the log.	10:15
X-Fade	Will upload it.	10:15
GeneralAntilles	Thanks	10:15
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X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/maemo-meeting-2008-09-02.html	10:22
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GeneralAntilles	Eeeeexcellent	10:24
X-Fade	I changed history a bit ;)	10:25
GeneralAntilles	Ha	10:25
GeneralAntilles	You should intersperse snarky comments throughout all the logs.	10:26
GeneralAntilles	"What? X-Fade didn't miss the last sprint review." ;)	10:26
X-Fade	heh ;)	10:26
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Khertan_n810	Hi !	10:46
Stskeeps	morning Khertan_n810	10:47
Khertan_n810	i need some help with thread and gtk	10:47
Khertan_n810	in mcalendar i use py thread and idle_add	10:48
Khertan_n810	but how to do it without using a gtk.main	10:48
Khertan_n810	?	10:48
Stskeeps	Khertan_n810: i don't think it's possible.. i had a friend of mine develop on a thread + gtk, and without a event dispatch loop everything messes up horridly	10:48
Khertan_n810	hum ...	10:49
Stskeeps	in python :P	10:49
Khertan_n810	but how can i do it with gtk.main()	10:50
Khertan_n810	once i call it	10:50
Khertan_n810	the program wait for user input	10:50
Khertan_n810	or an event	10:50
Khertan_n810	but i can t emit event only when i m out of the gtk event loop	10:51
Khertan_n810	is there a way to send an event to this loop	10:51
Khertan_n810	?	10:51
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inz	Khertan, what do you want to do?	10:52
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Stskeeps	Khertan_n810: there's very likely a method for it	10:52
Stskeeps	for putting things into event queue	10:52
Khertan_n810	hum i found using idle_add	10:52
Stskeeps	remembering to do gtk.gdk.threads_init() btw?	10:53
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Stskeeps	http://unpythonic.blogspot.com/2007/08/using-threads-in-pygtk.html <- think i used this one back when i worked with threads and pygtk	10:53
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:57
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Stskeeps	lbt: you don't happen to be some obscure C coder with plenty of X11 coding experience?	11:00
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Khertan_n810	re	11:05
Khertan_n810	sorry connection drop	11:05
Khertan_n810	and don t mind about my previous sentence	11:05
Khertan_n810	this is the morning and it s seems i not very well wake up	11:05
liri	hey Khertan	11:06
Khertan_n810	hey liri	11:06
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Khertan_n810	Stskeeps: :) this works now ...	11:06
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Khertan_n810	re	11:10
* Khertan_n810 is tired of this unstable connection		11:11
liri	Khertan_n810: I installed mcalendar a few days ago - I was wondering if you're going to support the calendar view	11:12
Khertan_n810	calendar view ?	11:13
Khertan_n810	you mean displaying a sample calendar ?	11:13
Khertan_n810	to show day on month without any events ?	11:13
liri	I mean to show all days in a month in a kind of a matrix way - called monthly view (and not in the form of an agenda/todo list)	11:14
Khertan_n810	in a view like this i can t show any event on na suchn small screen	11:15
Khertan_n810	but i don t remember if i ve implemented this in 0.4.0	11:15
Khertan_n810	but now when you clic on the current date (at the top)	11:16
liri	I thought so too but I'm sure the split of the boxes can be improved and maybe the font reduced	11:16
Khertan_n810	it display a calendar	11:16
liri	yeah I saw the calendar display	11:16
liri	but it's a calendar without showing events so I don't get the feeling where I have events and where I don'	11:16
liri	*don't	11:16
liri	a good improvement to the agenda view is to add colors for example	11:17
liri	because it's a white-black list of events in different dates and it's not easy to read	11:17
liri	maybe you can even separate dates like in MS Outlook which has "This week", "Last week" kind of separators	11:17
Khertan_n810	i ve added google calendar color in 0.4.1	11:17
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liri	I don't remember which version I have, I installed it from the repos	11:18
Khertan_n810	so 0.4.0	11:18
Khertan_n810	0.4.1 isn t available yet	11:18
liri	think about the monthly view	11:19
liri	at least a weekly view is required	11:19
liri	ok	11:19
Khertan_n810	it ll look like : http://khertan.net/poubelle/screenshot28.png	11:19
liri	much nicer	11:19
Khertan_n810	in fact i made list	11:20
liri	but different days/dates should have different colors too	11:20
liri	otherwise if all of the events for 2-3 subsequent events are in the same calendar then they are all colored in blue	11:20
Khertan_n810	as i hate view like gpe or dates (pimlico)	11:21
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liri	which again, makes it harder to read (at least for me)	11:21
Khertan_n810	yep i m looking on how to make color for each days	11:21
liri	by the way, will google contacts be in sync with the communications contacts app in the tablet? (the one used for the sip calls)	11:24
aquatix	Khertan_n810: nice	11:24
Khertan_n810	thx	11:24
aquatix	Khertan_n810: are you going to implement syncml btw?	11:24
aquatix	as i don't really like sharing all my data with google	11:25
Khertan_n810	if i found a way to do it easy	11:25
Khertan_n810	bye	11:27
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RST38h	Hello all	11:32
RST38h	Could somebody check for me if VGBA 3.6 has gone into Extras?	11:33
Jaffa	Morning, all	11:33
Jaffa	Hmm, I think I said that	11:33
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X-Fade	RST38h: I see it on my N810 diablo.	11:40
X-Fade	3.6.0-1	11:40
RST38h	Yep, just checked the directory file	11:41
RST38h	Thanks! Updating Downloads page as we speak	11:41
X-Fade	RST38h: Sorry, no auto updater for non-free yet ;)	11:42
RST38h	It's fine with me - I can update it manually, there is a lot more things I have to do when releasing a product	11:47
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lardman	'ello	12:41
GeneralAntilles	I don't think Downloads could get any slower.	12:42
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GeneralAntilles	Hi, lardman.	12:42
lardman	hi GeneralAntilles	12:43
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Jaffa	lo lardman	12:51
crashanddie	hi lardman, Jaffa & GeneralAntilles	12:51
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lardman	hi Jaffa, crashanddie	12:57
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hrw	morning	13:19
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lardman	hi hrw	13:22
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GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, is it just or, or has the maemo.org/Maemo Community council thing only managed to become less clear?	13:24
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GeneralAntilles	dneary's not even here for me to poke. . . .	13:26
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GeneralAntilles	Maybe I just wasn't clear enough on the list	13:28
GeneralAntilles	but dneary is saying exactly the OPPOSITE of what I meant and acting like it's what I said. . . .	13:28
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Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: It's getting less clear, certainly. There is a community of people outside of maemo.org who use Maemo-powered devices; and the aim of the council should be to help encourage people use maemo.org	13:37
GAN800	The other issue is that "Maemo" implies "Maemo Software"	13:38
GAN800	and the goal isn't really to get Nokia to ship a PIM suite. :/	13:38
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melmoth	hmmm, is somebody speaking chinese here by any chances ?	13:46
lcuk	mmmmmmm chicken blt FTW!	13:52
GAN800	Mmm . . .	13:54
GAN800	time to buy bacon	13:54
lcuk	well i went for a salad but was tempted by the smell	13:54
Khertan_n810	hi	13:54
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, whats the bacon like round your way? do you get from a butchers or direct from a pig	13:54
lcuk	hi Khertan_n810 \o	13:55
GAN800	Grocery store usually	13:55
lcuk	pre-packaged?	13:55
GAN800	Yeah	13:55
lcuk	pre-cooked?	13:55
* Khertan_n810 vote for GA		13:55
GAN800	I'm too lazy to seek out fresh stuff.	13:55
lcuk	Khertan_n810, you arent meant to tell us your vote	13:55
GAN800	No, not cooked.	13:55
lcuk	i honestly believe by the next maemo election we should have custom software stack and voting MUST be done from maemo device	13:56
lcuk	touchscreen voting FTW	13:56
GAN800	Shrink-wrapped, vacuum-sealed slab of meat slices.	13:56
Khertan_n810	hum ... i doesn t talk about the maemo council one	13:56
lcuk	ahhh Khertan_n810 lol	13:56
Khertan_n810	but it was about the last sentence of ga	13:57
lcuk	are you a bacon man as well?	13:57
GAN800	lol	13:57
Khertan_n810	lol	13:57
Khertan_n810	talking about previous last sentence	13:57
Khertan_n810	:)	13:57
Khertan_n810	aim of maemo council	13:58
* lcuk is only pullin ur leg		13:58
GAN800	So he can take it off and cook it into bacon	13:58
GAN800	lcuk's a sick, sick man	13:58
lcuk	:D lol	13:58
lcuk	leg doesnt make good bacon	13:59
lcuk	gimme some decent pork-belly	13:59
aquatix	~bacon++	13:59
lcuk	my god if i went through scrollback people would think i was bacon obsessed	13:59
Khertan_n810	is there a tutorial about opening a n810 somewhere ?	13:59
aquatix	Khertan_n810: slide it up	13:59
* aquatix runs		13:59
lcuk	Khertan_n810, ummmmm ive seen a service manual somewhere	13:59
Khertan_n810	it s seems there is something the screen and the keyboard	14:00
lcuk	which includes full frontal step by step undressing	14:00
lcuk	i think	14:00
Khertan_n810	when i slide up i can hear something 'scratching'	14:00
* lcuk rummages through his grotmags ermmmmm internet links to find it		14:00
Khertan_n810	i ve some scratch on the space key too	14:01
lcuk	you have grit in your mechanism - you will end up with scratches on the keyboard like others mentioned in itT yesterday	14:01
Khertan_n810	lol	14:01
Khertan_n810	so i m not the only one	14:02
* Khertan_n810 hope he will understand everyone at summit as his english isnt't fluent		14:04
GeneralAntilles	Alright, I'm washing my hands of the maemo.org/Maemo issue	14:04
GeneralAntilles	If somebody else wants to argue it, feel free.	14:05
lcuk	Khertan_n810, you has a privmsg :)	14:05
GeneralAntilles	I'm not interested.	14:05
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lcuk	GeneralAntilles, good job you are washing hands of it	14:05
lcuk	maemo.org/Maemo doesnt exist:	14:05
lcuk	Error 404: Page could not be found.	14:05
lcuk	The requested URL /Maemo/ could not be found on this server.	14:05
lcuk	Khertan_n810, we will do lots of hand waving and stuff	14:06
Khertan_n810	:)	14:06
Khertan_n810	i ll talk in python :)	14:06
lcuk	heh	14:07
crashanddie	moanin' lcuk & Khertan_n810	14:08
lcuk	i have to go again, cblt is finished	14:08
lcuk	balls mornin crash	14:08
lcuk	bbl	14:08
Khertan_n810	morning crashanddie	14:09
crashanddie	http://www.boreme.com/media/yr2007/suicide-blowjob.jpg	14:09
crashanddie	Khertan_n810, don't be afraid to ask people to repeat	14:10
Khertan_n810	i ll not	14:10
Khertan_n810	just hope they will not be borred after the 10 times :)	14:11
GeneralAntilles	We'll give everybody trouts to hit you with when you get it wrong. :P	14:11
Khertan_n810	crashandie: funny	14:11
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Khertan_n810	lol	14:12
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andre___	what's the exact name of that background process running that makes my n810 blink and display an icon in the buttom left corner when a new mail has arrived?	14:18
GAN800	magic	14:19
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GAN800	it's notifier something, I believe.	14:19
andre___	but "ps ax \| grep magic" doesn't provide output :-P	14:19
GAN800	probably registers a dbus service	14:19
GAN800	I'd check for the .desktop in the taskbar plugin folder.	14:20
andre___	probably... ok. let's read that ps ax output, andre...	14:20
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GAN800	/usr/share/applications/hildon something	14:21
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* Jaffa weighs in on the maemo.org/Maemo thread.		14:23
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* Khertan1 crashanddie canola est lourd...		14:25
Jaffa	For, y'know, fun 'n' stuff...	14:25
GAN800	Jaffa, the 'fun'n'stuff' is over in -users. ;)	14:26
crashanddie	Jaffa, nicely put	14:26
* RST38h proposes capitalizing Maemo as MaEm0		14:26
GAN800	maEmo	14:26
RST38h	It looks more eleet this way and will serve to unite "maemo" and "Maemo" adherents =)	14:26
RST38h	[against the new capitalization]	14:26
aquatix	RST38h: s/eleet/breezer	14:27
Khertan1	m43M0	14:27
aquatix	/\/\43M0	14:28
crashanddie	just emo	14:28
aquatix	lol	14:28
aquatix	my Emo	14:28
crashanddie	looking at all the drama on the mailing lists	14:28
aquatix	my first emo	14:28
* GAN800 makes a /\/\ gang sign.		14:28
aquatix	(sony style)	14:28
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Khertan1	/\/\aem0	14:29
GAN800	Meme-o	14:29
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crashanddie	http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ueUOTImKp0k	14:29
liri	m/-\emo	14:29
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liri	or my personal favourite	14:30
aquatix	liri: hm, that looks almost sci-fi classy	14:30
liri	maemoooooooooo	14:30
aquatix	ghehe	14:30
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liri	heh	14:30
GAN800	Mmm. Reminds me of Life Aquatic	14:30
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Jaffa	Oooh, we should do a "Finding Maemo" T-shirt for the summit ;-)	14:31
GAN800	Ha	14:32
GAN800	Somebody draw up a tablet with fins	14:32
GAN800	Then prep for the assault from Disney legal.	14:33
Jaffa	I laugh in the face of a lawsuit.	14:33
Jaffa	And I'll do it anonymously and claim parody.	14:33
Jaffa	Oh, and I can't draw so it won't be anywhere close to their trademarks ;-)	14:33
Mek	hmm... anyone has seen this error before in scratchbox? /scratchbox/compilers/bin/g++: error while loading shared libraries: /usr/lib/libfakeroot/libfakeroot-tcp.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory	14:33
GAN800	That damn mouse is responsible for the sad state of current copyright law.	14:34
Mek	(and that file does actually exist)	14:34
Khertan1	Jaffa: i can draw it for you ... with a style near my great maemo logo ... : http://khertan.net/poubelle/logo1.png	14:34
Jaffa	Khertan1: heh	14:34
* GAN800 <3's that logo		14:34
GAN800	Khertan was robbed.	14:34
Knirch_	Ma EMO	14:35
lcuk	we should pilfer one of the esquire mag e-ink things and get a live maemo tshirt, or just cut a n810 sized hole	14:35
GAN800	I'm quite certain the selection committee took a bribe.	14:35
lbt	SLANDER!	14:35
* lbt cried		14:35
_marcell_	andre___: that would be modest	14:35
GAN800	lcuk, N810+velcro	14:35
lcuk	no, i need the velcro for when i go sheep hunting	14:36
lbt	your not welsh	14:36
andre___	_marcell_, interesting. then it's not running here, would explain why i don't get popups about new imap mail anymore	14:36
lbt	s/ur/u're/	14:36
infobot	lbt meant: you're not welsh	14:36
GAN800	murderall modest	14:37
* lcuk wonders what to do with all his desktop icons		14:37
Khertan1	kill --violently modest	14:38
aquatix	lcuk: ctrl+a del	14:38
Khertan1	lcuk: rm -rf /	14:38
aquatix	rm -rf ~/Desktop	14:38
lcuk	i cant do that, ill lose important stuff like "youtube: manamana"	14:39
lcuk	and such classics as "youtube - thomas the tank engine"	14:39
lcuk	jake will cry	14:40
jott	Mek: did you apply the fakeroot patch?	14:40
lcuk	and then start opening the remaining icons	14:40
Mek	jott: what fakeroot patch?	14:40
jott	Mek: from the qemu-eabi site..	14:41
jott	see also http://setanta.wordpress.com/category/maemo/	14:41
Mek	ah, yeah, I see... not yet :)	14:41
jott	it's step 4 here :) http://qemu-arm-eabi.wiki.sourceforge.net/	14:41
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Mikho	Ok, I have an autoconf problem	14:48
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GAN800	ohgod	14:49
GAN800	Shatner is advertising WoW now	14:49
lcuk	now? thats ancient	14:49
Mikho	when I write pkgdatadir=[${datarootdir}]/[$PACKAGE] it expands to ${prefix}/share/serlaunchd	14:49
Mikho	now how can I get the macro to expand the prefix as well?	14:49
yacoob	plus, Mr. T. was so much better :D	14:49
GAN800	I've only seen the Mr. T one.	14:49
GAN800	WoW is bad enough it ALMOST makes me hate _Blizzard_. . . .	14:50
yacoob	it's not bad, it's just a game	14:50
GAN800	yacoob, gtfo WoW addict.	14:50
lcuk	i think playing maemo is the best game of all	14:51
yacoob	GAN800, having problems? :D	14:51
lcuk	after buying the base package and working hard, i am now a level 69 dev	14:51
yacoob	(I don't play it)	14:51
lcuk	farming in the itT forums is fun	14:51
GAN800	WoW is evil	14:51
yacoob	lcuk, just wait for the expansion	14:51
* jott loots lcuk source code		14:52
lcuk	yacoob :) i see my time in maemo as extreme gaming :) its also learning for the future - all the pain ive had this year flexing my c muscles and learning all about linux is going to pay off in the long run	14:52
yacoob	GAN800, it doesn't make sense. It's just like saying 'ketchup is stupid'. WoW is just a game, people becoming addicted to it have problems, that they would droow in something else if there wasn't wow	14:52
lcuk	jott, not yet you wont - though no doubt i will repeat the last time i went on holiday before i step onto a plane :)	14:52
Mikho	anyone know anything about autoconf?	14:53
yacoob	but that's offtopic here, agreed.	14:53
lcuk	no Mikho i dont have it on my device	14:53
XTL	ketchup _is_ stupid	14:53
aquatix	lol	14:53
aquatix	thankfully it is, otherwise i'd be eating sentient mushed tomatoes :/	14:54
lcuk	xtl whats your view on mayonaise?	14:54
aquatix	lcuk: mayonaise is yummy (the dutch stuff that is)	14:54
X-Fade	It sure is! :)	14:55
lcuk	aquatix, did i ask you, you are not authorized to speak of culinary things in this channel, xtl is our resident goto man for food	14:55
lcuk	:P	14:55
aquatix	sudo all_culinary_talk aquatix	14:55
jott	why you have not mentioned bacon yet?	14:55
aquatix	s/all/allow	14:55
aquatix	jott: i did :) or where you talking about lcuk?	14:56
lcuk	jott, cos im digesting a lovely blt+chicken sandwich from earlier - i still have the taste on my lips	14:56
yacoob	sentient bacon from Proxima IX	14:56
aquatix	yacoob: :)	14:56
lcuk	bacon is sentient before its made into bacon	14:56
aquatix	damn, getting hungry again	14:56
jott	aquatix: lcuk has to say bacon at least three times a day in this channel :)	14:56
lcuk	after that its just delicious	14:56
aquatix	had lunch just 1.5h ago	14:56
aquatix	lcuk: g	14:57
lcuk	pigs are just mobile bacon caravans	14:57
aquatix	apt-get source bacon	14:57
aquatix	downloading pig...	14:58
XTL	lcuk: Mayonnaise is brilliant :)	14:58
lcuk	spider pig, spider pig, does whatever a spider pig does	14:58
lardman	I was in the lab, hence my lack of reply ;)	14:58
XTL	Well, in its place of course	14:58
lcuk	lol lardman	14:58
lardman	feeling hungry now though	14:58
lcuk	exploding bacon	14:58
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XTL	mmm	14:58
aquatix	awwgh	14:59
lcuk	mmmm my maemo.org t-shirt will have to include bacon	14:59
* aquatix gets a cookie		14:59
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aquatix	everyone is lunching or talking about food	14:59
* jott thinks of making bacon+eggs.		14:59
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baaba	did gstreamer0.10-tools suddenly disappear?	14:59
lcuk	bstreaky0.10-tools ?	15:00
jott	gstreamer0.10-bacon	15:00
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jott	baaba: was it ever there?	15:00
aquatix	/ignore lcuk	15:00
aquatix	;)	15:00
lcuk	http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/g/gstreamer0.10/	15:01
lcuk	its in there: gstreamer0.10-tools_0.10.13-0osso13~diablo1_i386.deb	15:02
baaba	oh nevermind, i forgot to add diablo/sdk	15:02
baaba	facepalm	15:02
lcuk	happy to bacon	15:02
Mikho	ok, found it already	15:02
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aquatix	hm, anyone knows why, if in python i have a class object with a library that i fill with instances of another class and i create another of that big class that creates its own instances of the other class, that i get copies of instances from the objects in the first class'es library in the second?	15:03
* aquatix wonders whether that sentence even is comprehendable		15:03
lcuk	no, unparsable	15:03
aquatix	meh	15:03
aquatix	instance class1( library1{class2, class2, class2} ) other instance class1( library1{class2, class2, class2} ) <- same class2 instances as the first one has in its library	15:04
aquatix	while i create new instances	15:05
lcuk	then it depends how you are initializing the class1_v2 instance	15:05
lcuk	is it just a shallow clone?	15:05
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aquatix	clusters[i] = Cluster.Cluster(<<parameters>>)	15:05
lcuk	parameters=fuck?	15:06
aquatix	no, but they are irrelevant ints	15:06
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aquatix	with id's and such	15:06
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lcuk	do you explicitely construct and fill the member library1 when you create the instance, or do you clone the first object and work from there	15:07
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aquatix	lcuk: i do another explicit construct	15:08
aquatix	sec, i'll pastebin a piece	15:08
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andrewfblack	Anyone know how you can upload a Projects website on garage.maemo.org?	15:10
RST38h	North Korea was yesterday accused of infiltrating an international taekwondo group and using it as a front for espionage and assassination, including a planned 1982 attempt on the life of South Korean president Chun Doo Hwan	15:10
RST38h	Ninjas!!!	15:10
GAN800	/www is svn	15:10
lcuk	sounds more like zoolander tbh	15:10
GAN800	s/is/in/	15:10
infobot	GAN800 meant: /www in svn	15:10
andrewfblack	thanks	15:11
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aquatix	lcuk: http://pastebin.com/d24397bf3	15:12
aquatix	hope that's clear	15:12
aquatix	somehow, i get the same Node's (same objects) in the various Cluster's	15:13
lcuk	aquatix, you mean only a single lonely node is created - or you manage to create a group of them, but the same group is used for each and every cluster	15:16
aquatix	the latter	15:16
aquatix	of course, the way i do it, each subsequent cluster has 1 Node more, but that's just one addition to the previous group	15:16
aquatix	which shows up in the cluster created after	15:17
aquatix	really odd :/	15:17
lcuk	how do you know they are the same instance because from my nonprofessional view that code looks like it should work	15:17
aquatix	print self.nodes[i].__class__	15:18
aquatix	and those object id's are the same	15:18
lcuk	yes, you are printing the classid not the instance id	15:19
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aquatix	also, they all have the same cluster id after init is done (passed by the cluster to the node)	15:19
aquatix	oh	15:19
aquatix	but still	15:19
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lcuk	in the pastebin code you call cluster.cluster with more params than you have in cluster.__init__	15:22
lcuk	is this just a pastebin translation	15:22
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aquatix	lcuk: no, disregard the last 2 parameters	15:22
lcuk	or normal behavious	15:22
aquatix	was a copy/paste edit error :)	15:23
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aquatix	those are some settings for the nodes	15:23
lcuk	whats the header for node__init	15:23
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aquatix	lcuk: http://pastebin.com/def1b7ed	15:26
lcuk	i personally tihnk its creating everything you are just looking at the wrong values to confirm - i would hazard you are storing a value in the wrong field which makes it look the same, but you are constructing all the objects - just confirm it yourself with some debug lines in each constructor and confirm the values passed to each	15:26
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aquatix	myeah, i already did that, but i'll do some more debuggin	15:28
lcuk	dwhat does the "id" member do in python, is it a special keyword and does odd things - its being highlighted by pastebin as if it is ?	15:29
aquatix	lcuk: btw, http://pastebin.com/d22a82354 is the output of those __class__ calls	15:30
aquatix	hm, good point	15:30
aquatix	but shouldn't it complain then?	15:30
aquatix	it's defined in the class itself too	15:30
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lcuk	not sure, perhaps you are allowed to change it - just to be safe try converting to c(luster/node)id and see	15:31
aspect	lcuk: id() is a global function in python. pastebins' highlighting is stupid.	15:31
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aquatix	lcuk: besides, in that output pastebin, the `Cluster 1' etc is done by doing print "Cluster " + str(self.id)	15:34
aquatix	however, rewriting that now	15:34
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GAN800	Hit it with a stick.	15:34
aquatix	GAN800: i did, same shit	15:36
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aquatix	grmbl	15:36
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lcuk	aquatix, hmmm it is reusing your instances, very strange	15:38
aquatix	lcuk: indeed :/	15:39
lcuk	ill call back later, hope you resolve it - try removing the inner loop and see if its still doing it	15:39
lcuk	then look at how other simple versions work and manage it - because you arent doing anything massively complex	15:39
aquatix	indeed	15:40
aquatix	what do you mean exactly with the inner loop?	15:40
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lcuk	aquatix, read this http://www.ibiblio.org/g2swap/byteofpython/read/class-init.html	15:42
lcuk	it sais you should only need Node(....) to construct	15:43
aquatix	hm	15:43
aquatix	sec...	15:43
lcuk	it also leaves off the initial init stuff you do at the head of the class	15:43
* Jaffa not a graphics artist: http://bleb.org/software/maemo/finding-maemo.jpg		15:43
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lcuk	depending upon when the nrNodes=4 id=-1 nodes={} gets called it might be running your __init__ function and then reclearing the nodes array	15:44
aquatix	if i do that, i get:	15:44
aquatix	TypeError: 'module' object is not callable	15:44
aquatix	hm	15:45
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lcuk	jaffa, on the back of your finding maemo t-shirt you MUST have a map showing location of c-base and a path from various hotels	15:48
lcuk	aquatix, my hunch is the init code you have outside the __init__ function. keep everything else the same as it was at your pastebin and just remove the stuff from outside __init__	15:50
lcuk	comment it out	15:50
lcuk	anyway, back later	15:50
aquatix	oh hm	15:50
aquatix	lcuk: thanks	15:50
aquatix	that might just work	15:50
* aquatix has coded too much with normal languages ;)		15:50
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lbt	OK who's a physicist?	16:04
Jaffa	lcuk: heh	16:04
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lbt	What's the upper bound energy for a Higgs boson?	16:05
lbt	and how much energy is there (in eV) in a single spark in a flint/steel strike?	16:05
X-Fade	42?	16:06
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liri	it depends if is attached to a zpm module, and even then it differs between the types of matter-energy streams that spread through a wormhole	16:07
* liri babels some Stargate language		16:07
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crashanddie	liri, "zpm module" ?	16:17
crashanddie	liri, zero-point module module?	16:17
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RST38h	lbt: You don't really need to know this	16:18
RST38h	lbt: You only need to know that on Sep 11 2008 WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!! B)	16:18
RST38h	[btw, good choice of date]	16:19
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lbt	I'm working it out	16:20
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lbt	OK, that surprised me :)	16:21
lbt	A steel spark has an energy of 50 Million GeV.	16:22
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lbt	CERN is making particles of about 12GeV	16:22
lbt	We are so in the shit...	16:22
ShadowJK	http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1066	16:23
lbt	yeah, there are a lot of them ;)	16:24
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lopz	hola	16:31
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lbt	Sorry, CERN is making particles of, erm, 14TeV. A spark is all of 50,000 TeV	16:35
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Khertan1	11 Sept 2008 ?	16:43
RST38h	lbt: my guess is that particles making a spark are flying in different directions	16:43
Khertan1	a thuesday ?	16:43
Khertan1	not possible	16:43
RST38h	Wednesday, Khertan, wednesday	16:43
Khertan1	oh ...	16:44
RST38h	lbt: while LHC will accelerating them all in one direction	16:44
Khertan1	wednesday is tommorow ...	16:44
Khertan1	so 10 ?	16:44
RST38h	Oh, Thursday then	16:44
Khertan1	lol ... i ve look the wrong year	16:44
Khertan1	yep Thursday	16:44
Khertan1	:)	16:44
RST38h	See? They haven't started it yet and years are already all wrong	16:44
Khertan1	i ve look 2007 :)	16:45
Khertan1	starting what ?	16:45
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Stskeeps	LHC launches at 10.09.08 .. :>	16:47
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Stskeeps	(10.9.8..:>	16:48
Khertan1	oh ... THE LHC !	16:48
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Jaffa	Or... they have started it and we're in a timeloop	16:55
n800m	damn it not again	16:55
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elekt	phew logs check out.	16:57
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sp3000	http://webcast.cern.ch/index2.html is fascinating	17:07
sp3000	(the video part in particular)	17:07
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RST38h	is there any other part to it?	17:09
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lardman	~lart freeview	17:12
* infobot teaches freeview the basics, including how to RTM		17:12
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maketo	hi,	17:27
maketo	hi, how do I know if I am running chinook or diablo?	17:28
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maketo	anyone?	17:30
aquatix	maketo: see the config screen	17:30
aquatix	control panel	17:30
elekt	about product	17:30
aquatix	yeah	17:31
aquatix	was looking up the exact option	17:31
maketo	hmm	17:31
aquatix	if it's version 4.2008.30-2 or something, it's diablo	17:31
maketo	it says "version: 2.2007.51-3"	17:31
andre___	that's chinook	17:31
maketo	ok cool, thank you very much	17:31
aquatix	you're welcome :)	17:32
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elekt	i think we need more sexy themes	17:33
* lbt thinks so too		17:33
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* aquatix thirds that motion		17:34
aquatix	there's a nice theme editor btw	17:35
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* qwerty12 thinks we need more themes		17:35
aquatix	maybe i should get creative	17:35
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elekt	yeah i was looking at it	17:35
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Stskeeps	Jaffa: i wouldn't mind a timeloop if it meant that knowledge in your mind was kept for next iteration :P	18:05
Stskeeps	except development projects gets kinda .. endless	18:05
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andrewfblack	elekt if you have a theme you want made let me know I do requests	18:14
andrewfblack	opps already gone	18:14
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* aquatix is thinking about a mix between the sleekness of Hendrika and the clean translucent bars of the default theme		18:19
andrewfblack	aquatix that sounds cool	18:22
aquatix	yeah	18:23
aquatix	too bad we don't have the templates	18:23
andrewfblack	those would be real easy to remake	18:24
qwerty12	Nokia don't make their themes using konttori's theme maker...	18:24
andrewfblack	qwerty12 I know that but I could easly make a template that looked just like Hendrika	18:25
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aquatix	qwerty12: they don't? tsk...	18:26
andrewfblack	lol	18:26
andrewfblack	maybe they should	18:26
qwerty12	aquatix, learn about the horribly complicated hildon theme tools... I know the LCARS guy uses that	18:26
aquatix	i can imagine	18:27
aquatix	there's a reason konttori made his own theme maker :)	18:27
andrewfblack	the bad thing is konttori theme maker is still to hard for some people :)	18:31
andrewfblack	one guy can't even figure out how to open it lol	18:32
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qwerty12	Nokia theme makers tend to be compilcated in general. Ever seen the Carbide theme maker for S60 phones? My personal favourite is the Sony ERicsson theme maker.	18:32
andrewfblack	nope n8x0 is the first device I have ever made a theme for	18:34
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andrewfblack	I think I should start releasing files only once a week, I think if I keep releasing stuff daily people will get tired of looking and downloading my stuff	18:35
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n800m	which themes are yours?	18:38
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andrewfblack	https://garage.maemo.org/projects/themehackers/	18:38
andrewfblack	They are all there	18:38
qwerty12	Ooh, a lot of themes, thanks!	18:39
elekt	cool	18:40
andrewfblack	Thanks can't beleave you guys didn't know about them I have posts on itT and I have had several news articles on front page of garage	18:40
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elekt	i remember seeing the windows one	18:41
andrewfblack	like i just released a theme yesterday but I have two more that are just about ready and I have a few fixes to one I released yeserday but I don't know if I should go ahead and update it or wait since I just did it yeserday	18:42
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elekt	are there screenshots ?	18:42
andrewfblack	I don't want people to get tired of downloading themes from me	18:42
Jaredu\|Work	heyo :)	18:42
andrewfblack	http://themehackers.maemobox.org/	18:42
andrewfblack	screenshots are there	18:42
Mek	cd "/home/marijn/host/kde4libs/kde4libs-4.1.62~svn859093/obj-arm-linux-gnueabi/kate/plugins/pythonencoding" && /usr/bin/automoc4 "/home/marijn/host/kde4libs/kde4libs-4.1.62~svn859093/obj-arm-linux-gnueabi/kate/plugins/pythonencoding/ktexteditor_python-encoding_automoc.cpp" "/home/marijn/host/kde4libs/kde4libs-4.1.62~svn859093/kate/plugins/pythonencoding" "/home/marijn/host/kde4libs/kde4libs-4.1.62~svn859093/obj-arm-linux-gnueabi/kate/plugins/pythonencoding" /usr/b	18:43
Mek	sorry abou tthat :)	18:43
Mek	middle-mouse-paste is nice, but sometimes anoying :)	18:43
Jaredu\|Work	omgz	18:43
Jaredu\|Work	WINDOWZE	18:43
Jaredu\|Work	lol ;)	18:43
Jaredu\|Work	not bad on the themes man	18:44
andrewfblack	thanks, I have a xmen and Linux Mint one is the works as well and just started a Superman one by request	18:45
elekt	yeah nice stuff	18:45
Jaredu\|Work	=]	18:45
andrewfblack	the other deveolpers in my project are all working on themes as well one person is doing a James Bond one that looks cool	18:45
elekt	i wanna see the linux mint one, the backgrounds look good	18:45
Jaredu\|Work	Alright so Im new to this channel, I'll be getting an N810 within a couple weeks (waiting for college refund check +shipping time) and kinda was wondering if there was anything i need to know about the device that i havent already obsessed and found out already lol	18:46
Jaredu\|Work	I currently have a sony mylo com 2, but the n810 is going to be nice for remote ssh from school :)	18:46
Jaredu\|Work	and page rendering is considerably faster :P	18:46
Jaredu\|Work	knowing how to make themes would be a bonus as well as its quite fun to do that stuff :P	18:46
* Jaredu\|Work was thinking of maybe a stargate theme? ^_^		18:48
andrewfblack	elekt I'll try and get a release of the linux mint theme in the next few days.	18:48
elekt	cool	18:48
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Jaredu\|Work	andrewfblack: how exactly do you make themes..? i know its gtk but is it just swapping the images or how does that work o.O	18:50
Jaredu\|Work	ive used linux for awhile but the n810 will be the first customizable portable so i figured i'll go all out	18:50
lcuk	kontorri is designing a theme maker, hes been blogging about it	18:50
andrewfblack	I have a tutorial one itT but you basicly download this https://garage.maemo.org/projects/thememaker/ and edit the .psd file to way you want it to look then open the jar file and make theme	18:50
Jaredu\|Work	ah awesome	18:51
lcuk	http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/	18:51
lcuk	on his site theres vids and stuff explaining the process	18:51
Jaredu\|Work	are there varables like size of the menu bars and stuff that are adjustable or are they locked	18:51
andrewfblack	yeah me and kontorri email just about everyday I've been talking him into adding features like the icon support and such	18:51
andrewfblack	there are some varables	18:52
Jaredu\|Work	ive seen some instances of transparency so i know at least that works	18:52
Jaredu\|Work	so worst case scenario i could do a shaded bar via pixel texturing lol	18:52
lardman	lcuk: I'm having strange sadistic thoughts of writing some code in VBA	18:52
Jaredu\|Work	errrr	18:53
lardman	s/sadistic/masochistic	18:53
Jaredu\|Work	dont do it xD	18:53
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lardman	I'm trying not to	18:53
Jaredu\|Work	do some C instead	18:53
Jaredu\|Work	lol	18:53
lardman	I want to make my email client record video when I email it a message	18:53
derf	Friends don't let friends write VB.	18:54
Jaredu\|Work	this is true	18:54
lardman	and I'm running WinXP at work, so it's going to be outlook	18:54
Jaredu\|Work	or python	18:54
Jaredu\|Work	lol	18:54
Jaredu\|Work	errr	18:54
Jaredu\|Work	sec	18:54
lardman	now I just need to chose a suitable bit of pvr sw which will run on windows, to do the recording	18:55
* lardman is aiming for slingbox type functionality without getting into trouble for using work bandwidth		18:57
qwerty12	~lart other people using router so I can't upgrade firmware	18:57
* infobot squeezes other people using router so I can't upgrade firmware till other people using router so I can't upgrade firmware turns blue like papa smurf		18:57
lcuk	lardman, for quick bit of glue on a windows machine you cannot beat it :)	18:57
lcuk	just have a large glass of whiskey and get on with it	18:57
lardman	lcuk: yeah I know, I started programming using vb/vba	18:57
lardman	before I was legally allowed to drink whiskey ;)	18:58
qwerty12	Bet it didn't stop you anyway :P	18:58
lcuk	really? i thought at your age you wouldv started flicking switches on an altair	18:58
lcuk	:P	18:58
lardman	well, embarassingly, I prefered Archers, then cider, then moved onto nasty bitter beer ;)	18:59
elekt	NICE burn	18:59
lcuk	its fine, i prefer alcopops :) if i cant taste the booze i wont get drunk	18:59
lardman	lcuk: how rude, I'm only 30 :p	18:59
lcuk	lol took you long enough to realise :P	19:00
yacoob	30? people don't live that long.	19:00
lcuk	younger than me - i was sure you were older :)	19:00
lardman	only in my wisdom :D	19:00
lardman	hmm	19:00
lardman	:)	19:00
lardman	yacoob: yeah, starting to feel it now ;)	19:00
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lcuk	indeed :) your wisdom got you into linux before me	19:01
* lcuk really shouldv rejected the college courses and offers of money and stuck to his guns and ran linux on an old 286		19:01
lcuk	anyone got a time machine i can botrrow?	19:01
lardman	that was just my desire to replace my Psion 5 -> Zaurus, needed to do some tweaking to get on Uni network, and the rest is history	19:01
yacoob	running linux on an old 286 makes MAN out of a wimp!	19:02
lcuk	i think im over the worst of the linux thing here, im starting to "get it" :)	19:02
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* qwerty12 is decent at linux, no idea how		19:02
lcuk	qwerty12, your brain can adapt, you are like the borg - i was similar in picking up amiga and windows and spectrums and stuff at the time	19:03
* lcuk is old now		19:03
yacoob	"When I was your age I... uh... um..."	19:04
qwerty12	I've never touched an Amiga, don't think I would ever understand one if I used it :P	19:04
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lcuk	its linux without the open source bit	19:04
lardman	or understand why people used such underpowered hardware? ;)	19:04
lcuk	itt just worked and there was a thriving shareware community	19:04
qwerty12	what about warez?	19:04
qwerty12	For a friend, you know...	19:04
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lcuk	lardman, amiga was ahead of its time, and with its custom chipsets it was a multi core wonder: very similar to this ere n810 (if we could use all cores that is)	19:05
lardman	revtran for the Psion was a thing of beauty :)	19:05
lcuk	oh yer qwerty, i got my first 2 warez games from my mum	19:05
lcuk	"Terminator 2" and "lemmings" :)	19:05
yacoob	it's just stopped evolving.	19:05
qwerty12	lol :)	19:05
yacoob	and pcs started to.	19:05
* lcuk remembers the floppies		19:05
* lardman still has to use them, some of the lab hw is so old!		19:06
yacoob	yes, and the joys of having a bad sector on disk 11 out of 12.	19:06
* qwerty12 loves the inventor of usb flash drives		19:06
lcuk	lardman, if you buy something to act as a tool you dont update it if it works as expected	19:07
* XTL hates the weenies that kept floppy drives and vhs tapes going for so long		19:07
qwerty12	My first computer had a floppy drive which worked for a while, until I broke it	19:07
elekt	i still have a few punchcards	19:07
elekt	text mainly	19:07
XTL	I just have a flowchart template	19:08
* yacoob sets +nostalgia,+my_computing_experience_is_older on #maemo		19:08
lcuk	elekt, could you get punch-card pron?	19:08
qwerty12	http://www.asciipr0n.com/pr0n/ ...	19:08
lcuk	thats not punchcard though	19:08
qwerty12	Meh, who punches porn on punchcards?	19:09
elekt	these just give me a 7043 error - "hanging chad on card XX"	19:09
lcuk	a porn hunter with a punchcard machine	19:09
yacoob	one of my first run ins with computing was making stars for the christmas tree out of my dad's programs saved on punch-tape	19:09
lcuk	omg yacoob, i hope he was finished with them - you could have setback software development by years	19:10
lcuk	on error goto top_of_christmas_tree	19:10
elekt	haha	19:10
dystopia	garage.maemo.org ssl certificate has been broken forever :/	19:11
lcuk	back later	19:11
yacoob	yes, crucial code calculating zeroes of grade 2 polynomials was lost forever!	19:11
andrewfblack	dystopia I don't beleave you everything at maemo.org works fine :)	19:11
yacoob	luckily, civilisation is still standing, but the secrets of levitation, teleportation and orbital lasers is long lost.	19:12
jott	....back in the days where you could replace a transistor with a welding apparatus.	19:12
dystopia	lol:p	19:12
* elekt sends zap yacoob command to his satellite		19:12
elekt	spoken too soon.	19:12
elekt	i tried to change an ide cable on a laptop once	19:13
elekt	sauter all over the pins	19:14
yacoob	ghaa!	19:14
elekt	never got a new mobo for it, i guess i should	19:14
*** yacoob is now known as y_c_ob		19:14
Mek	bah... qemu is just too unpredictable... now I've got stuff that just sometimes fails, but when trying to debug it doesn't fail anymore :(	19:15
y_c_ob	look what you've done :(	19:15
elekt	crappy laptop design though, worst cooling ever	19:15
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andrewfblack	elekt it must be a HP laptop	19:15
elekt	sony :(	19:15
andrewfblack	wow my old HP laptop ran so hot that it melted where the power plugs in	19:15
dystopia	Mek what qemu version	19:16
elekt	oh this one went stright for your testicles	19:16
andrewfblack	thank god HPs have a media dock thing on side that allows a second input for power	19:16
elekt	this one had really crappy airflow	19:17
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elekt	and it was a p4	19:17
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elekt	nice screen though, that's why i tried to save it	19:17
Mek	dystopia: svn trunk (with some scratchbox patches)	19:17
andrewfblack	yeah mine is a full p4 in a laptop I used to have to put it in the frezzer to cool it down	19:17
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Mek	dystopia: it's the first version that actually is able to run everything I need sometimes... :)	19:17
elekt	haha	19:17
elekt	i've only mixed a fridge with computers a few days ago trying to rescu a file off a dropped hdd	19:19
elekt	i ended up not needing it anymore and the hd is still in there 4 days later	19:19
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elekt	next to the pizzas	19:20
elekt	and the veggie dogs	19:20
andrewfblack	the fridge works great for cooling off a over heated laptop back in my Everquest days I had to do it all the time if I overheated durring a raid and needed to get back in game fast	19:20
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andrewfblack	elekt thats your problem veggie dogs wont revive a hard drive you need turkey dogs	19:21
elekt	i just underclocked mine	19:21
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elekt	if it only were that simple	19:21
y_c_ob	hm... I should move everything from my palm to the tablet and see how it behaves there.	19:22
andrewfblack	well mine no longer as a screen, or alot of other parts. Basicly its the bottom of the laptop I use for a media storage/server	19:22
*** y_c_ob is now known as yacoob		19:22
dystopia	Mek: except it sometimes quits running ;)	19:22
Mek	yeah, but that is still better than consequently not working at all :)	19:23
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Italodance	agggggggggggggg	19:23
jott	Mek: have you tried using sbrsh?	19:24
Mek	no, haven't tried that...	19:24
Mek	won't that be slow?	19:24
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jott	well..	19:24
jott	depends on your host performance :)	19:25
jott	but at least the code is not run in an emulator.	19:25
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Khertan_n810	Hi ! again	19:26
summatusmentis	hi	19:27
jott	Mek: oh, btw do your kde builds make use of vfp? otherwise it could get relatively slow on floating point operations due to conversion. (and plasma uses quite a lot fp stuff :)	19:27
jott	and as you fight with it so hard now it should be at least worth the effort ;)	19:27
Mek	hmm.. how do I enable vfp? :)	19:27
kulve	grep EXTRA /scratchbox/doc/variables.txt	19:28
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jott	Mek: see the mkspecs of qt :)	19:29
Mek	:)	19:29
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jott	Mek: -pipe -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp -mcpu=arm1136j-s -mtune=arm1136j-s	19:30
jott	is used. (plus -Os)	19:30
Mek	ah, fun :) during linking or compiling (or both)?	19:31
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Mek	compiling I guess..	19:31
jott	yep	19:31
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lardman	home time, cu all alter	19:37
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lardman	or later	19:37
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andrewfblack	later guys need some lunch	19:39
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konttori	qwerty12: Nokia makes the themes using a very similar tool though. And the templates are the same.	19:52
konttori	So, there is template for hendrika, echo and all other nokia themes.	19:53
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qwerty12	k :)	19:53
konttori	And they are compatible with theme maker.	19:53
konttori	also the cut files that theme maker uses are the same ones nokia uses	19:53
konttori	(obviously only for the already released os versions)	19:54
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lcuk	konttori, thats just teasing us :P you aren't meant to mention the future :P	20:01
konttori	I wasn't? How come I forgot to mention that? Oh well, can't fix what's done.	20:02
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konttori	I have a feeling that there may be some announcements on the summit that may shed a bit of light on that area as well.	20:03
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lcuk	konttori, had that feeling for a while as well :P	20:05
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lcuk	your theme maker looks cool :)	20:05
konttori	thanks. It's a nice small utility.	20:05
lcuk	when can we drop the need for photoshop type programs and actual dev themes on device?	20:05
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lcuk	all the best utilities are small	20:06
konttori	when you have photoshop quality image editor on the device.	20:06
lcuk	does it use multiple layers in the photoshop file?	20:06
lcuk	or is it just used as a single container?	20:07
johnx	lcuk, install gimp?	20:07
konttori	I really don't think a small screen is well suited for pixel editing work. Of course, if the device would be able to connect to a monitor and you would use a mouse, then that would be a whole different game.	20:07
konttori	yeah, gimp is good enough for the job.	20:07
lcuk	not really usable though jott	20:07
konttori	also inkscape is what some of nokia themers actually use (those who don't use adobe illustrator)	20:07
lcuk	konttori, the screen is fine, theres a modern technology invented called zoom :P	20:07
konttori	:)	20:08
lcuk	but touch is the perfect medium for art :)	20:08
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Anunakin	;)	20:13
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Khertan_n810	hi again ...	20:17
Khertan_n810	what do you think of something like this : http://khertan.net/poubelle/screenshot31.png	20:18
Khertan_n810	of course with other colors :)	20:18
BULLE	Khertan_n810: all i get is a text only blog	20:19
johnx	same here	20:20
Khertan_n810	hum	20:20
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jott	very pragmatic and functional indeed :)	20:23
Khertan_n810	arg stupid maemoftp	20:23
Khertan_n810	http://khertan.net/screenshots/screenshot31.png	20:23
Khertan_n810	uploaded in the wrong folder	20:23
Khertan_n810	the old url should work now	20:24
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Khertan_n810	what do you think of something like this : http://khertan.net/poubelle/screenshot31.png	20:25
johnx	yeah, that looks good I think	20:25
jott	i would use other colors. scnr :)	20:25
Khertan_n810	this is just test color	20:25
johnx	how will month view and week view look	20:25
Khertan_n810	:)	20:25
johnx	those are the ones I use the most	20:25
Khertan_n810	this is a month view	20:25
johnx	aaah...	20:25
jott	oh.	20:25
johnx	I probably couldn't use it	20:25
Khertan_n810	:)	20:25
johnx	everyone has a different style :)	20:26
Khertan_n810	you prefer something like gpe ?	20:26
jott	isn't a month view that you actually see the whole month? :)	20:26
jott	that's more of a "summary view"	20:26
Khertan_n810	hum ...	20:26
johnx	I need to see my events for a week or month at the same time "Oh, I have next friday free, but not saturday"	20:26
Khertan_n810	summary for the month so	20:26
johnx	google calendar works well for me, for example	20:27
Khertan_n810	yep but not me :)	20:27
johnx	right, so if this works for you, you should do it :)	20:28
Khertan_n810	i ll try to do something like that	20:28
Khertan_n810	for content the most of user	20:28
Khertan_n810	but not really easy to do with gtk	20:28
Khertan_n810	maybe you have an idea ?	20:28
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johnx	I'm pretty useless with GUI programming, but the way that dates handles it seemed nice	20:29
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Khertan_n810	hum ? really ?	20:29
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Khertan_n810	you found that usefull ?	20:29
johnx	I liked the week view in dates	20:30
Khertan_n810	(i ask as i found that useless but it s a point of view)	20:30
johnx	the part I didn't like is that it wouldn't grab from google	20:30
Khertan_n810	:)	20:30
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Khertan_n810	my first idea was to modify ermining to sync date with google	20:30
Khertan_n810	but as they use this nthing nammed eds	20:30
Khertan_n810	i ve decided to do my own calendar	20:31
johnx	dates looks like it hasn't been touched in quite a while...	20:31
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johnx	I think we have two different usage scenarios	20:32
johnx	what do you use the calendar for, Khertan_n810 ?	20:32
Khertan_n810	mainly ... for my personnal thing to do ...	20:32
Khertan_n810	and important 'reunion' at work	20:33
Khertan_n810	as their is an alarm :) i never miss a call conf	20:33
johnx	aaah, mainly for todos then? I have my appointments for the whole month and so I use it to plan out which days I have free	20:33
Khertan_n810	s/their/there	20:33
* sp3000 expects 'free' to be a toggle		20:34
Khertan_n810	i would mean appointments	20:34
Khertan_n810	sp3000: ?	20:34
* sp3000 hasn't really used the thing enough to be sure if he understands it though :)		20:34
johnx	Khertan_n810, well, yes, but mainly for the current day, right?	20:34
Khertan_n810	mainly for the week	20:34
Khertan_n810	but not for the month like you	20:35
Khertan_n810	so i understand you	20:35
Khertan_n810	but my main problem of the month view is how to do itnreadable on such small screen	20:36
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jott	Khertan_n810: http://debain.org/?p=214	20:36
* sp3000 wonders how he ended up in year 9999		20:36
jott	maybe you can rip something from that one	20:36
johnx	maybe use color blocks like dates or gpe uses? then just show info on tap?	20:37
* johnx loves using other people's fast inet connections :)		20:38
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jott	Khertan_n810: http://debain.org/?p=214 not sure you got this	20:39
sp3000	oh so you're the peer that reset khertan's connection	20:39
Khertan_n810	sorry connection drop	20:39
sp3000	Khertan_n810: ah, canceling the datepicker goes 9999	20:39
Khertan_n810	haven t got it	20:39
johnx	and I said "just use a similar month view to dates or gpe calendar and provide more info when the user taps an appointment"	20:41
Khertan_n810	sp3000: :)	20:41
Khertan_n810	sp3000: corrected on 0.4.1 (not available yet)	20:41
Khertan_n810	johnx ... hum imagine this on the small screen of the nit	20:42
Khertan_n810	johnx: i ll take a look	20:43
jott	Khertan_n810: well the dpi is high enough :)	20:43
johnx	give dates a try. There's not much functionality, but it's a nice UI mockup :D	20:43
* crashanddie is back from interview		20:43
jott	maybe intel pushes it :)	20:44
Khertan_n810	jott: the dpi of the screen not the one of my eyes	20:44
johnx	also, screen dpi doesn't make my thumbs smaller	20:44
Khertan_n810	johnx: i used date before mcalendar :)	20:44
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jott	well for an overview it's fair enough.	20:44
Khertan_n810	right: for an overview	20:44
johnx	Khertan_n810, for the day view your method is just fine	20:44
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jott	and a typical use case for a calendar is to get an overview :)	20:45
Khertan_n810	johnx: i ll make some try to do a ui like date	20:45
Khertan_n810	but i can t promise it will be usefull :)	20:45
Khertan_n810	jott: hum ... right	20:45
liri	Khertan_n810: take for example the HTC devices, the screen is MUCH smaller than on our tablets, maybe half size, and yet it's showing the calendar in monthly view just fine	20:46
jott	well maybe look at this goocalendar thingy. it seems to be written in python and already provides some sort of month view/timeline view.	20:47
Khertan_n810	jott: i m extracting the source	20:47
jott	judging from the short video so to speak :)	20:47
liri	Khertan_n810: I guess it's a matter of using fonts and designing the GUI correctly. for example that vertical scroll bar on the right is way too big, and the buttons can be reduced to smaller icons too	20:47
liri	Khertan_n810: just my thoughts	20:47
jott	(just popped up from a google search)	20:47
johnx	liri, Khertan_n810 is going for thumb friendly I think	20:48
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Khertan_n810	liri: i don t think ...	20:48
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Khertan_n810	a calendar could be use only with thumb for me	20:48
liri	I'm just making a point that there is enough room to display a monthly view	20:49
johnx	everyone wants something different :)	20:49
liri	oh here's a VERY good suggestion	20:49
Khertan_n810	johnx: yep	20:49
johnx	Khertan_n810, you should do whatever makes you happy :)	20:49
liri	Khertan_n810: I think I have a good suggestion that will work out	20:49
Khertan_n810	hum ... so i stop the dev	20:49
Khertan_n810	i m happy with it	20:49
Khertan_n810	:)	20:49
Khertan_n810	i want to do the best calendar for maemo	20:50
jott	but you don't need a scroll bar for finger friendliness :)	20:50
Khertan_n810	so i should take care of user point of view	20:50
jott	kinetic scrolling ftw :P	20:50
liri	Khertan_n810: ok so I guess we'll have to wait for the next version	20:50
Khertan_n810	jott ... and how do you clic with kinetic	20:50
Khertan_n810	:)	20:51
jott	tap	20:51
* Khertan_n810 hate kinetic		20:51
johnx	my opinion on scrollbar size: since it can be set in the theme, I think apps should just use small scrollbars	20:51
jott	it's not that it is an unsolved problem.	20:51
jott	just that many implementations suck ;)	20:51
Khertan_n810	johnx: hum theme really ?	20:51
johnx	Khertan_n810, yup :)	20:51
jott	if the app respects the theme :p	20:51
johnx	jott, i haven't found one that didn't	20:52
johnx	jott, it's the way the gtk widget is drawn, not much the app can do about it...	20:52
jott	i think the iphone does it fairly well.	20:52
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johnx	here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17678	20:52
johnx	the theme is called echowb	20:52
jott	johnx: sure, just manually set the width.	20:53
johnx	first thing I install after a flash	20:53
jott	those nokia thumb things are just named widgets.	20:53
johnx	jott, right, so with small scrollbars all of the "it wastes space" people are happy, and the rest of us can just use a theme with wide scrollbars	20:54
jott	but you can change the default value :)	20:54
jott	still if an app messes with it, your theme settings are worthless :P	20:54
johnx	I have never seen any app able to mess with it shrugs	20:55
jott	it usually makes no sense ...	20:55
johnx	if any app messes with scrollbar size a polite "please don't do that" to the author of the app should fix it :)	20:56
jott	hopefully.	20:56
johnx	anyways, it's hypothetical	20:56
johnx	even firefox plays nice	20:56
Khertan_n810	johnx: there isn't any theme with large scrollbar	20:56
Khertan_n810	hildon.hildon_helper_set_thumb_scrollbar(self.wTree.get_widget("scrolledwindow3"),True)	20:56
Khertan_n810	any theme set this	20:56
Khertan_n810	goocalendar use a module nammed goocanvas	20:57
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johnx	Khertan_n810, hmm? uhm, no. I'm using a theme that makes all scrollbars wider.	20:57
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johnx	did you look at the thread I linked?	20:57
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Khertan_n810	it s loading	21:00
johnx	I can link to the post with the screenshot directly if you want	21:00
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Khertan_n810	i got it	21:02
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Khertan_n810	but i like the thumb style for something like mcalendar	21:02
Khertan_n810	but i don t want it for the browser	21:03
Khertan_n810	how i do ?	21:03
johnx	nevermind then	21:03
johnx	I wonder if there's a way to do something tricky with their startup scripts to make them look at different gtkrc files...	21:03
johnx	it would be a hack though	21:04
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gregorovius	does anyone else find using fingers on the nit's screen not comfortable? even if i've just washed my hands, scrolling or dragging my finger feels like there's way too much friction	21:05
johnx	I use my fingernails mostly	21:06
gregorovius	I don't have a screen protector... do you? doesn't it scratch your screen?	21:07
johnx	fingernails? no I don't think so	21:07
johnx	I think a plastic stylus would be harder	21:07
johnx	just don't sharpen your fingernails :)	21:07
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johnx	honestly though, I don't care that much about cosmetic scratches	21:08
johnx	my N800 does not exist to look pretty: it exists to be useful	21:08
gregorovius	the stylus is a bit round-pointed	21:08
gregorovius	oh, I agree	21:08
gregorovius	scratches bother me because then it's harder to see what's below	21:08
johnx	I've been poking at it with my fingernails for over a year now (since march 2007) with no terribly ill effects	21:09
johnx	I bought a floor model from a compUSA liquidation sale...I never had a stylus or manual or carrying case	21:10
andrewfblack	I have a chunk missing in my screen and I can still see whats behind it when its lit up bright	21:10
XTL	I think I also tap with nails, but not drag	21:10
XTL	Things like tediously turn sound on/off, set presence or pick networks	21:10
johnx	I tend to tap with my thumb and drag with my nails	21:10
gregorovius	I tap with nails all the time, but dragging feels too scratchy	21:11
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gregorovius	i've never used an iphone, is the screen 'smoother', so to speak?	21:11
johnx	XTL, just a note, you can open the volume control and tap d-pad center to mute	21:11
johnx	gregorovius, yup. it's glass not plastic	21:12
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johnx	designed for thumbs vs designed for stylus	21:12
gregorovius	ah, no wonder, I was thinking it'd be extremely uncomfortable if it were like this	21:12
gregorovius	i'd like something like a teflon screen protector :)	21:12
johnx	do they make it transparent?	21:13
Mek	in fact due to the different technology of ytouchscreen a stylus doesn't even work on an iPhone	21:13
Khertan_n810	bye	21:14
johnx	bye Khertan_n810. good talking to you :)	21:14
gregorovius	no idea	21:14
gregorovius	maybe I just don't understand why canola and a whole bunch of apps are aiming to be finger-friendly	21:14
Khertan_n810	good talking to you too	21:15
gregorovius	i mean, if you're going to use your fingernail, then you don't really need a wide-ass scrollbar	21:15
johnx	gregorovius, err...i prefer wide scrollbars	21:16
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konttori	gregorovius: You are quite right that the friction is not comfortable	22:05
konttori	The n810 screen is really optimal for fingernail/pen usage	22:06
lcuk	the biggest problem with scrollbars big or small is having to aim - if its a scrollbar it should be against the gutter so your finger/thumb/stylus can use it easily	22:06
Mek	hmm... do I think it is worth 250 euros for me to come to a day-and-a-half of the maemo summit...	22:08
lcuk	mek, if you have a better use for 250 euros then no, but if you believe it will be a worthwhile experience then yes	22:09
gregorovius	I wonder if there's a screen cover with a glass-like feel	22:09
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lcuk	my screen is losing sensitivity	22:09
lcuk	it does not respond any more to finger on the left hand side - still works with stylus all over though for now	22:10
* lcuk is going blind		22:10
Mek	if I had thought about this earlier I might have been albe to do a kde-on-maemo lightning talk...	22:10
Jaffa	Mek: have it there anyway; would be cool to see	22:11
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Mek	hmm.. why is the "Job title" field required in the registration form... are unemployed people not welcome? :P	22:13
lcuk	just say hobby :)	22:13
lcuk	its for people who are coming in a work capacity	22:13
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lcuk	theres nothing wrong if my software is still a work in progress is there	22:15
lardman	may I curse?	22:15
lcuk	please do	22:16
lardman	~curse dsp programming	22:16
infobot	May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, dsp programming !	22:16
lardman	ah, much better :)	22:16
lcuk	thats not cursing - the dsp is wrong about so many things	22:16
lcuk	let it all out	22:16
lardman	true	22:17
lardman	no, I don't want to offend it, nearly got mp3 decoding working	22:17
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johnx	lardman, you wrote your own mp3 decoder? O_o	22:17
lcuk	sounds like me, ive got a whole backlog of modules needing my love and limited time to do it, just got back from the hospital and not sure how much will get finished	22:17
lardman	nah, code was mainly from someone else, I'm just tweaking to get it to work with dspgateway	22:18
summatusmentis	how usable is the a2dp stuff?	22:19
lcuk	i got png image loading working last night (after a ding from derf) and because of that had to incorporate and finalise the alpha blending code.. :) glad its done, but sidetracked me from creating the ui objects	22:19
ToyKeeper	johnx: Fitaly works, though it still needs some tweaking... http://toykeeper.net/tmp/keyboard-fitaly.xml	22:19
ToyKeeper	johnx: http://toykeeper.net/tmp/maemo-fitaly-2.png	22:19
lardman	summatusmentis: works afaik, if not, please let me know ;)	22:19
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lardman	lcuk: sidetracking, story of my life	22:20
t_s_o	hmm, app manager just sits there at half bar with the cpu idle when doing a update...	22:20
summatusmentis	lardman: I'll have to do that some time	22:20
lcuk	yer lard, and it looks like i wil b away from computer for quite a bit in the next few days :(	22:20
lcuk	got a poorly older family member	22:20
lardman	summatusmentis: Once I get this mp3 code working, I plan to move the entire mp3->sbc pipeline to the DSP side	22:20
lardman	lcuk: sorry to hear that	22:20
lardman	summatusmentis: which will hopefully make it suitable for video soundtracks too	22:21
lcuk	so are we, thankfully she is having a better day today, but well	22:21
lardman	assuming they;re mp3 ;)	22:21
lcuk	does anyone have any ideas/suggestions/solutions about a fixed cam and stand for presenting using the live nokia sat on a base?	22:22
summatusmentis	lardman: that'd be exciting. Is it only mp3 now?	22:22
lcuk	jott, are you around?	22:22
* jott looks around		22:23
jott	oooh	22:23
jott	what's up?	22:23
lcuk	my previous comment - any ideas (im thinking of you because you have no travelling to do before the summit	22:23
lcuk	although you will have your hands full with rm_you :D	22:24
jott	hmm. well i guess most newer cameras will do fine.	22:24
jott	i guess the only problem is, to find a proper way to fix it.	22:24
lcuk	http://www.chromacolour.com/store/digital_animation_ca.htm	22:25
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lardman	summatusmentis: the sbc encoder? Anything that can be decoded on the ARM and sent to ALSA output can be encoded	22:25
lcuk	thats the sort of thing im thinking, but obviously if we can rig something up ourselves it would suffice	22:25
jott	lcuk: yes something like this would so it. but it's a bit of a short time frame to get it i guess :/	22:25
lardman	summatusmentis: however, if you try this with e.g. mp3, video drops to <1fps - some sort of memory contention is my theory	22:25
lcuk	yes jott, we need to see if anyone has one	22:25
lcuk	even a flexy holder thing - or an old adjustable lamp with duct tape would do ;)	22:26
summatusmentis	lardman: oh, I see	22:26
jott	duct tape hehe :)	22:26
jott	what would macgyver do?	22:26
jott	not sure if the c-base folk may have something to improvise....	22:27
lcuk	i asked on the ML but didnt get much of a reaction, but i think it would help and save the hassle we had at ltag	22:28
lcuk	if no machine handy it can just be show and tell in a better way	22:28
lcuk	barring that, could we get a mega fresnel lens	22:28
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jott	yes. well at least for the people relying on showing the work on the actual device :)	22:28
lcuk	it helps if you can see it first hand, obviously having short movie clips will work but its not quite the same and vnc isnt either	22:29
jott	~seen housetier	22:29
infobot	housetier <n=housetie@unaffiliated/housetier> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 19d 23h 43m 51s ago, saying: 'we should have had quim find out the coordinates when he was here'.	22:29
lcuk	the other problem with people expecting vnc would be wifi bandwidth	22:29
lcuk	~seen jamiebennet	22:30
infobot	lcuk: i haven't seen 'jamiebennet'	22:30
lcuk	~seen jamiebennett	22:30
infobot	jamiebennett <n=jamie@host217-34-38-3.in-addr.btopenworld.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 7d 5h 31m 33s ago, saying: 'GAN8001: I'm a little disappointed that more didn't put themselves forward :('.	22:30
jott	well usb network :)	22:30
lcuk	damn him for being so ircphobic	22:30
jott	~seen __t	22:30
infobot	__t <n=t@echelon.ext.c-base.org> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 4d 22h 16m 3s ago, saying: 'who can do this?'.	22:30
jott	mh..	22:30
lcuk	does anyone have one of these they can bring to the summit? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Joby-GP1-01P-Gorillapod/dp/B000EVSLRO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1220988639&sr=1-3	22:31
jott	i have a smaller one ..	22:31
lcuk	can it grip onto any sideways surface (like a handy mic stand?)	22:31
jott	not really. it's really cheapo :)	22:32
jott	http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1309	22:32
jott	:)	22:32
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lcuk	that would do: that at least has the proper camera base, some form of adhesive tape would do the rest (if someone would invent such a thing)	22:33
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lcuk	now all we need is a camera that works in webcam mode and a laptop to work it from	22:34
lcuk	where are all the nokians when we need them ;)	22:34
lardman_	Well I;ve got a crappy webcam you could use, not sure it;'s Linux-proof though	22:34
derf	Just stream it all from an NIT and tell them to like it.	22:34
lcuk	derf, it wont look good	22:35
lcuk	im expecting wifi to be useless	22:35
lcuk	others may not though	22:35
derf	lcuk: That's why you have to tell them to like it.	22:36
lcuk	but if their presentation doesnt go well it leaves everyone uncomfortable, just trying to help remove the problem by having a backup plan :)	22:36
jott	hehe "use your imagination, dudes!"	22:36
* lcuk unfortunately remembers pupnik (and myself)		22:37
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jott	hey housetier :)	22:38
housetier	hello	22:38
* keesj blames web standards for not being able to create a t-shirt with the hash sign "#"		22:39
lcuk	oh yer, tshirt time	22:39
housetier	yesterday __t told me about the camera "problem". my idea was to hang it from the ceiling, so it won't be in the way of the audience and still close enough to the speaker	22:39
* lcuk sends missus out on a mission		22:39
keesj	I wanted #maemo with lcuk . Jaffa Lardman pupnik etc	22:40
lcuk	:D spider-pig can fit it	22:40
housetier	however, the camera won't be very mobile then...	22:40
jott	housetier: the important part is, that it captures the small nokia screen.	22:40
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lcuk	keesj :) nice idea, find a better more standards compliant tshirt printer	22:40
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housetier	I guess the device will sit on a table?	22:41
lcuk	housetier, we are only thinking a small handheld digi cam pre setup to correct height to show off	22:41
lcuk	yer	22:41
lcuk	this is the very expensive ideal variant	22:41
lcuk	http://www.chromacolour.com/store/digital_animation_ca.htm	22:41
housetier	the cam will just record, right?	22:41
lcuk	no, live feed into laptop and onto projector	22:42
Mek	lcuk: don't they already have such a thing perhaps?	22:42
lcuk	so everyone can see	22:42
lcuk	mek, i dunno - i tried looking but didnt see any info	22:42
housetier	so "our job" would be to set up the hardware, but not rent anything right?	22:43
lcuk	well im just asking whether people have it or how we can set it up	22:43
jott	there was no real reaction from "official" side.	22:43
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jott	and lcuk really needs such a setup (and others would probably like it too)	22:44
lcuk	i suppose i could create a streaming video server in time, but i would have to stop what im doing here	22:44
jott	most parts are technical details.	22:44
housetier	now tell me what you need from us	22:45
lcuk	housetier, are you c-base or nokia or just a bod?	22:45
jott	c-base.	22:45
housetier	I am the event manager for c-base	22:45
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lcuk	ahh cool :) hi there.	22:45
jott	i think something to fix the/a camera and get the feed to the projector (probably a webcam would do the job and would allow to use existing computers attached to the projector)	22:47
lcuk	the problem is that i want to show my software running directly on my nokia handheld. i am aware theres a projector but we are expected to bring our own laptops for presentation, i need an overhead camera to display whats in front of me on the big screen	22:47
lcuk	it would be better obviously if the camera and laptop were there and available for anyone to use during the day	22:47
lcuk	so they can present their software to everyone without having to crowd around a 4inch screen	22:48
* jott imagines 200 people looking at a single n810 screen :)		22:48
lcuk	an extreme example of requirements: EXTREME	22:48
lcuk	dman	22:48
lcuk	http://animanatee.com/uploaded_images/stopmosetup-725705.jpg	22:48
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lcuk	anything from a ballcam in same location up would be ideal	22:49
housetier	we do not have spare laptops, we considered setting up pcs with standard software. so only the speaker would change but not the hardware	22:49
keesj	I do have great webcam	22:49
keesj	Logitech QuickCam Pro 9000	22:49
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housetier	ok now do you need the camera stand?	22:49
lcuk	if you have one on site already which could view our devices, yes that would be great	22:50
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housetier	yeah I don't think we will spend 999 USD on that kind of hardware	22:51
lcuk	no, certainly not expecting anything like that - it was the principle	22:51
housetier	so we will make do with what we have got	22:51
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lcuk	jott has a flexi tripod that i am sure we could duct tape to a mic stand on the day if needbe	22:51
housetier	that means we need to get an extra feed into the projector	22:52
lcuk	keesj, are you arriving the night before?	22:52
lcuk	it could be a choice by the speaker and just switch as they come up	22:52
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keesj	lcuk: I have not planned yet	22:53
lcuk	cos obviously it would be better to have it tested before the day	22:53
keesj	:P	22:53
lcuk	ill see if i can pilfer a webcam	22:53
lcuk	crap, crappy children brb	22:53
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keesj	perhaps it's better if you don't count on me. I will pull a double-lardman on you (bringing kids + GF)	22:54
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lardman	:)	22:54
lardman	No kids yet and gf/fiance is staying home for this one	22:55
lardman	fiancee	22:55
lardman	got to be careful, people might get the wrong idea	22:55
housetier	good, I'll see that we can set up a camera on a stand and have its feed go into the projector if the speaker wants. i cannot promise anything at this state, i am only a "manager" not a technician :)	22:55
jott	housetier: great. thanks for the effort and time :)	22:56
lcuk	housetier, thank you :) i will also try to arrange something as a backup backup	22:57
jott	the so called plan b :)	22:57
lcuk	jott, could you bring your tripod with you on the day or ill meet you day before or something	22:57
lcuk	plan c, i already have movies	22:58
jott	yes, should be possible.	22:58
lcuk	my camera however doesnt work as a webcam	22:58
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jott	i guess there are quite some folks at c-base the day before?! :)	22:58
lcuk	is that an unofficial meeting point?	22:58
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jott	well it's regularly open i suppose...	22:59
lcuk	ok, i best get on, i dont know how much more time im gonna get	23:01
lcuk	thanks jott	23:02
housetier	c-base is open every day :)	23:02
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housetier	we will be extremely busy on thursday, and probably wednesday before the summit!	23:02
lcuk	i bet you will, hope it goes smoothly from your side	23:03
housetier	it has to :D	23:04
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lcuk	yes, quite :)	23:04
housetier	people are doing their best	23:04
lcuk	yer, its gonna be great	23:04
lcuk	thanks for popping by, ill cyas all later	23:05
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*** n800m is now known as elekt		23:09
* elekt just got an aspire one		23:09
elekt	it's so cute!	23:09
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RST38h	Anybody has libhildonfm.so.2 ?	23:22
RST38h	and what version?	23:22
crashanddie	btw guys	23:23
crashanddie	I was interviewed for a job today	23:23
crashanddie	anyone care to know the name of the guy?	23:23
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crashanddie	you're never going to build this	23:23
ToyKeeper	... build? :)	23:23
crashanddie	yeah, it's not gonna compile	23:23
crashanddie	your brain is going to throw errors	23:23
* ToyKeeper readies his mental parser		23:24
* gregorovius segfaults		23:24
crashanddie	(I was thinking about working on a project, which is why I switched building and believing)	23:24
crashanddie	He's called Hildon	23:24
ToyKeeper	Heh, yeah. I was gonna say... someone's got makefiles on the brain. :)	23:24
ToyKeeper	What does hildon actually mean?	23:25
andrewfblack	elekt I just released the first publuc version of the Linux Mint theme if you want to look at it still got some more to go on it	23:25
ToyKeeper	I never heard of it until I used maemo.	23:25
elekt	i'm tied up atm, i'd love to see a screenshot, updated your blog yet?	23:25
RST38h	anybody willing to help me resolve a little versioning problem?	23:26
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andrewfblack	I'm going to post a few screen shots tonight when I get home	23:27
elekt	i'll check it out tonight	23:27
andrewfblack	cool	23:27
elekt	sorry, busy day, my gf's 30th	23:27
elekt	and i got her this little laptop i'm setting up for her	23:27
andrewfblack	don't remind her lol	23:27
elekt	she's not that girly	23:28
elekt	or old	23:28
andrewfblack	my wife isn't girly but she hated it when she tured 30 and I kept reminding her I was still in my 20s come to think about it I still do it now that she's 31	23:28
elekt	hehe	23:28
mavhc	never ask a women her age, because they suck at maths	23:29
pusling	...is there a way I can make maemo mapper autosave tracks every X minutes ?	23:29
elekt	yeah andrewfblack maybe i'm speaking too soon, the day's not over yet	23:30
derf	It already autosaves the track. It's stored in a database.	23:30
andrewfblack	I havn't been able to decided what netbook I want yet	23:30
Veggen	I ordered a new EeePC 901...	23:31
Veggen	but am sort of undecided too.	23:31
pusling	derf: I lost my track when it ran out of power.	23:31
Veggen	I think I don't like the "bloat" that seem to happen with the newer models, though :)	23:31
mavhc	only problem with the 901 is the price	23:31
derf	Are you running a really old version?	23:31
andrewfblack	901 droped today	23:32
mavhc	it's reaching real laptop prices	23:32
elekt	this acer aspire one is so cute	23:32
qwerty12_N800	RST38h: I have no idea how you got that number :/. the latest one in the update repo is 1:2.0.5. Like I said on ITT, I had to change the dependencies line to get it to install and the file open dialog was fine.	23:32
andrewfblack	several of the Eee Pcs droped in price today	23:32
elekt	it's the win xp version	23:32
pusling	derf: the version I downloaded from maemo mapper homepage like a week ago	23:32
elekt	$349	23:32
derf	That's not really old.	23:32
andrewfblack	When I first heard of the dell one I was so happy until I saw the stats and the price you are just buying the neme with that one	23:33
mavhc	I'm an idiot, I recorded all these gps traces whilst on holiday for geotagging my photos, then didn't back them up, then the n810 went into infinite crash mode and I had to reflash, sigh	23:33
Veggen	We'll see. Probably I can cancel/reorder before it ships end of month. Norwegian 901 will arrive end of month, they say.	23:33
pusling	I also wouldn't describe it that way ;)	23:33
Mek	pusling: compared to debian not much is really old :P	23:34
pusling	Mek: the maemo debian toolchain ;)	23:34
RST38h	qwerty: question: where do I find a place from which deb packager takes these versions?	23:34
Mek	yeah, true :)	23:34
pusling	Mek: have you by the way tried merkaartor svn on maemo yet ? ;)	23:36
qwerty12_N800	RST38h: Do you mean where the version numbers get taken for the produced deb?	23:36
Mek	pusling: no, never heard of it before	23:37
pusling	Mek: okay. I'm at least curious ;)	23:38
jott	pusling: i tried it.	23:39
jott	some weeks ago at least.	23:39
jott	works quite ok.	23:39
pusling	nice.	23:40
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pusling	maemo mapper can't do edits at least as far as I can see.	23:40
jott	the stylus is a bit imprecise though..	23:40
jott	maemo mapper just shows bitmap tilemaps...	23:40
RST38h	qwerty: yes	23:41
RST38h	qwerty: because if I don't find the place I will have to downgrade bootstrap to chinook =(	23:41
jott	with merkaartor you get the raw osm data :)	23:41
Mek	so, just booked my hotel for the maemo summit... I guess I'll be coming for a day-and-a-half (arriving friday during lunch :) )	23:41
pusling	jott: but then I can fine tune when I get back. I at least haven't found the nice way with maemo mapper to mark postboxs, banks and stuff.	23:41
jott	Mek: nice.	23:41
pusling	jott: and by raw osm data, I get uptodate maps and not week old maps ;)	23:42
jott	pusling: yep.	23:42
jott	it's a straight forward compile.	23:42
jott	just disable most of the widgets and you'll be fine.	23:42
jott	http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/9837/merkaartorvq8.png screenshot from a few weeks ago.	23:43
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jott	(by disable i mean tick off the dock widgets - a single one is just fine :)	23:44
pusling	yeah.	23:44
pusling	looks quite usable	23:44
qwerty12_N800	RST38h: I would guess from dpkg's /var/lib/dpkg/status file, you could edit and rebuild deb. But that is dirty, instead you can either svn export https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/tags/hildon-fm/1_2.0.6.1/ and dpkg-buildpackage or (what sounds better to me) downgrade to the version that comes with diablo : http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/libh/libhildonfm/ and rebuild	23:44
RST38h	qwerty: I am using sb2 so my options are somewhat limited	23:46
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RST38h	qwerty: what libhildonfm2 version should I put there?	23:46
qwerty12_N800	RST38h: 1:2.0.5	23:47
pusling	derf: or do you know some secret way to recover my lost maemo mapper track ?	23:47
RST38h	I have got libhildonfm2-dev inside sb2 and it depends on 1:2.0.6!	23:48
derf	pusling: Look in the database and see if anything's left of it?	23:48
derf	That's probably a lot of work, though.	23:48
pusling	then I_guess i can recreate the tracks of some local allotments another day ;)	23:48
andrewfblack	later guys time to head home.	23:49
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qwerty12_N800	RST38h: I have no idea about the oddities of sb2, sb1 user here, but the version that is currently in diablo is 1:2.0.5. If you upload 1:2.0.6-1, I don't think osso-soft-version will let you install it. If you edit the depends line manually, your program built with 1:2.0.6 is running fine on a device with 1:2.0.5	23:51
elekt	anyone know a site where i could get ascii -> hex for a wep password?	23:51
RST38h	Aha	23:52
RST38h	I hacked dpkg/status file	23:53
RST38h	dunno if it is the right thing to do	23:54
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qwerty12_N800	I'd recommend restoring it afterwards unless you replaced all instances? I don't recommend it, I only do it on my tablet to replace rubbish busybox stuff with the real stuff properly	23:56
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