IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2008-08-29

moontigerahhhhhhhhhhhhhh awesome .... maybe i should get one too :)00:00
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BULLEanyone here got any clues on the future of the tablet os, now when nookia bought trolltech, and seem to push QT aswell ? will they push a gtk+ and qt in some mixed setup ?00:00
lbtit looks like it00:01
BULLEim a bit worried of having to waste my precious ram on yet another gu library00:01
lbtah well00:01
BULLEas gtk+ and the current tabletos seems to be based on several of the gnome support libs00:02
BULLEwhereas qt rolls their own stuff, in many cases00:02
lbtit'll probably have an effect00:02
lbtwhether it'll be measurable/apparent/significant probably depends on your use00:03
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lbtif you just want something to worry about then go right ahead :)00:03
BULLEim mor worried about the ram useage in current tabletos, especialy the web browser =D00:04
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GeneralAntilless/tablet os/Maemo/g00:06
GeneralAntillesThe browser will get significantly lighter when it's merged with FF trunk.00:06
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* qwerty12_N800 likes messing with /sys/class/leds/keypad/brightness :-)00:16
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crashanddieBULLE, I don't believe they're stupid enough to allow people to load the GTK env libs at the same as the Qt libs. It's like running Kwrite on gnome, a bit stupid00:25
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crashanddieBULLE, well, maybe people will be stupid enough to do it, but I think they know enough as to force such a mistake on the end users00:26
* qwerty12_N800 uses khexedit in gnome :>00:26
crashanddieqwerty12_N800, yeah, but you're young and unwise00:26
crashanddieqwerty12_N800, btw, the room cleaning job for £5 pw still standing?00:27
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qwerty12_N800crashanddie: nah, just that i know gtk hex editors suck00:27
qwerty12_N800crashanddie: what job? :p00:27
crashanddieyeah said you'd give me a fiver if I cleansed your room :P00:27
qwerty12_N800i lied :p. mum made me clean it out myself...00:28
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gregoroviuswould it be possible to have 2 separate volume statuses: headphones plugged in, and no headphones03:12
gregoroviusas in, is there a way I can easily add a hook for that event somewhere?03:12
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GeneralAntillesThere's a dbus event for it I'm sure03:13
GeneralAntillesI dunno where it's documented, though.03:14
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gregoroviusGeneralAntilles: any idea where I can start looking?03:29
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GeneralAntillesProbably documented in the docs on maemo.org03:33
jottgregorovius: watch /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/headphone/state03:34
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jottGeneralAntilles: maybe a nice addition to abl..03:35
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lcukjott, add cpefreq tweaks and an option to disconnect network if you change to battery ;)03:36
jottlcuk: na that's a job for liqbase :P03:37
lcukliqbase would have to be running 24703:37
lcuknot that i object you understand :)03:37
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jotti suppose it's running 24/7 on your tablet anyway :)03:37
lcukwell its useful having a big clock on display :)03:38
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jotthehe that's what my old ipaq is for :)03:38
lcukim actually pondering computer control03:38
lcukrun it in silent no window mode and talk to my little 81003:38
lcuki found out last night by the way - the thing ive lost since diablo is my tv remote program03:39
lcukit was the first thing i coded for maemo and it talks to a vb server on my desktop and sends keys to control mplayer ;)03:39
gregoroviuslcuk: I just tried liqbase playtest, looks really promising03:40
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gregoroviusglad to see apps like that popping up03:40
lcukso am i03:40
jottlcuk: you should make a google maps plugin :)03:41
GeneralAntillesYeah, jott, that's a reasonable feature request.03:41
lcukosm is being actively considered, im talking to someone whos thinking of using it to talk03:41
GeneralAntillesNice if we could also get the extra 7 steps of volume, too. :(03:41
lcuki think in the coming weeks i will feel comfortable with the apis to be building quite complex things :)03:42
jottkillall multimediad :p03:42
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gregoroviusjott: thanks, that seems to work... now, do I have to poll it every X seconds or is there some file monitor facility on os2008?03:43
lcukmedia scanners should be visible apps with progress03:43
lcukand be stoppable03:43
jottgregorovius: depends on the framework.. there is inotify and g_io_add_watch for example.03:45
lcukjott, there should be a dbus event for things like this03:46
jottshould or is? ...03:46
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jottotoh g_io_add_watch, QFileMonitor, inotify, etc.. are fine too...03:48
lcukim just reading acmonitor and finding out what it listens for03:48
lcukit cant be far of the mark03:48
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gregorovius_kagu seems to use /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/headphone/state and gobject.io_add_watch03:51
jottah you use python?03:51
gregorovius_I haven't used anything yet, I mostly do bash scripting and I've only recently ventured into python03:52
gregorovius_could be a good first project03:52
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jottpython does not sound like the best choice for such a task ...03:55
lcukjott, what you fancy a rewrite in mono?03:55
jottwhy not? :)03:56
lcukhow stable is that now, do we know?03:56
jotthmm on the tablets? never tried...03:56
lcuki quite like the syntax of, but don't like the microsoft classes03:57
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jottlcuk: you could use gambas :), not sure if gtk# can be used with the mono
lcukmight be nice to make a liqbase branch :)04:03
lcukthough i was reading up last night, integrating python is simple04:04
* lcuk remembers adding vbscript plugin support to eyespy04:04
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gregorovius_jott: what would you use for that?04:06
gregorovius_something small and lightweight04:06
lcukanyway, gnite folks04:07
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jottgood nite lcuk.04:11
jottgregorovius_: plain c sounds reasonable for such a task..04:12
gregorovius_out of my league04:12
jottwell then use what you are best at :)04:15
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dmsupermanIn 4.1 Diablo, what repo is Maemo Mapper in?04:53
GeneralAntillesChinook Extras04:57
GeneralAntillesgnuite's roadtripping04:57
GeneralAntillesIt hasn't yet been pushed through the autobuilder for Diablo Extras.04:57
dmsupermanaw :(04:57
GeneralAntillesThe author04:58
dmsupermanWhat's the location to the chinook extras?04:59
GeneralAntillesJust duplicate the existing maemo Extras catalog04:59
GeneralAntillesand add 'chinook' to the distribution field of the new duplicate repository.05:00
dmsupermansweet, thanks05:01
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moontigerKhertan_n810, are you here?05:07
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Italodancesomeone has eveonlinetheme?07:12
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user_Has eve theme released any files yet?07:16
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* qwerty12 is annoyed he missed y/day's eastenders >.<. Off to rapidshare it is...09:59
* RST38h is about to experience the joys of american air travel in a few hours10:00
RST38h(wondering how he will be fucked this time)10:00
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GeneralAntillesThe Beagle's arrived at home.10:04
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RST38hqwerty: any luck with qalculate btw?10:05
qwerty12RST38h: I haven't worked on it yet, I got pissed off when I forgot to compile libgmp3 and that library that takes ages to compile can use libgmp310:06
qwerty12The name libgmp3 is pretty misleading...10:06
qwerty12I'll start work on it again after I mess around with linux-omap10:07
qwerty12(which, knowing me, won't be long)10:07 it an mp3 decoder?10:11
qwerty12No, which is why I got annoyed that I didn't compile it :D10:12
qwerty12"GNU MP is a programmer's library for arbitrary precision arithmetic (ie, a bignum package). It can operate on signed integer, rational, and floating point numeric types. "10:12
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XTLWait, it was a surprise that gmp is gmp?10:12
qwerty12XTL: Well, with my habits, I read that as libg mp3 :P10:13
RST38hit is yet another bignum lib10:13
XTLIt is The yet another bignum lib :)10:13
RST38hcan fail to compile for a variety of reasons10:13
RST38hmost likely - has got some x86 specific optimizations10:14
XTLI'm sure it's been ported but I think it's a pretty fickle library10:14
XTLported a lot, I mean. Not specifically here10:14
qwerty12Yeah, it's on quite a lot of archs10:15
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oilinkioh. what just happend? apt-get upgrade did loads of changes10:35
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GeneralAntillesapt-get upgrade isn't recommended. . . .10:35
oilinkiGeneralAntilles: what is then?10:36
GeneralAntillesApplication manager10:36
GeneralAntillesupgrade can hose the system with certain repositories.10:36
GeneralAntillesand can mess up SSU updates right now.10:36
oilinkimight be, but doing things with application manager is slow10:37
oilinkior can it be done from the command line?10:37
GeneralAntillesDon't apt-get upgrade unless you know what you're doing.10:38
GeneralAntillesand: <oilinki> oh. what just happend? apt-get upgrade did loads of changes10:38
oilinkiupgrade the packages10:38
GeneralAntillesTells me you don't know enough.10:38
oilinkiGeneralAntilles: well, normally there is only a few packages which change. now there was a lot of changes. including some wimax stuff. I just wondered if there has been some major changes on the maemo lately10:39
GeneralAntillesAn SSU update was pushed a few weeks ago.10:39
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oilinkithat might be the reason10:41
oilinkiso. thanks for the information :)10:42
GeneralAntillesWhich can easily hose your system if you install without osso-software-version-rx*410:42
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oilinkiseems to be ok.10:46
oilinkistill eating all the available memory, but I guess that can not be avoided10:46
JaffaMorning, all10:46
qwerty12It can depend on the repo's you have. Chinook repo + SDK repo = one way ticket to apt hell10:47
qwerty12Morning Jaffa10:47
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GeneralAntillesSomething tells me partitioning this SD card for the Beagle on this machine isn't gonna work out.10:48
oilinkiis there some recommended way to disable /usr/sbin/browserd -d -i microb at the startup?10:49
qwerty12Sure, if you want to be browserless ;)10:49
oilinkiI suppose that's the preload for web-browser engine?10:49
qwerty12No, it basically *is* the engine10:50
oilinkiI mean. I quite rarely use browser with the n810.10:50
RST38hoilink: there is10:51
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qwerty12Thanks GeneralAntilles10:51
oilinkiRST38h: ?10:52
RST38hI have had a discussion with microb developer and after being pushed around a bit he told me the way10:52
* GeneralAntilles rolleyes10:52
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oilinkiRST38h: please share with us10:53
RST38hwait, gprs here10:54
qwerty12Just rename the tablet-browser-daemon file in /etc/rc2 and rc510:55
RST38hwait, let me check what he suggested10:55
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RST38h"remove link from /etc/rc2.d"10:56
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RST38hi.e. same thing :)10:56
JaffaGeneralAntilles: I'm torn - it's really *really* good to have the Nokia people actually commenting in the public Bugzilla (even if you've pointed out they're still refering to NB bugs in changelogs), but the content of that comment shows that the decision makers just aren't getting how to work openly.10:57
oilinkiok. thanks. I'll try that one10:57
GeneralAntillesThe interesting thing about that comment is that it actually points to Nokia not really being capable of putting out smaller maintenance updates effectively.10:59
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JaffaGood point. All their processes are still geared around "big" releases.11:00
RST38hand will be11:01
RST38hcan you guess why?;)11:02
qwerty12I don't understand how an SSU update warrants a new SDK release. It's like Nokia releasing a FIASCO image when there is a SSU update and making you flash that first.11:02
RST38hand that I can also explain11:02
RST38hthey operate in terms of releases for support reasons11:06
RST38hwhen some punter comes to the service center and complains that his tablet does not work they have to be absolutely sure he has got a known config11:07
oilinkihmm. not starting browser-daemon is not yet perfect solution. when starting browser it says 'updating' and stays in that condition.11:07
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oilinkiseems like need to alter the browser starting script that it will kick the browser-daemon up as well11:07
JaffaRST38h: indeed, but the first thing they'll do at the service centre (assuming they ever /do/ deal with tablets) is reflash it.11:07
RST38hthey normally insure it with firmware updates11:07
RST38hJaffa: not necessarily I think11:08
JaffaFrom a customer service PoV, they won't want to kill the user's data.11:08
RST38hJaffa: and then they may get complaints about "software degraded" if they overwrite punters config11:08
JaffaRST38h: "degraded"?11:09
RST38husers data is one but there is also a set of apps and app versions user has11:09
RST38hJaffa: well, let us say you have booapp version 10.1 installed and it boos at startup11:10
RST38hthey reflash to 10.1 which does not boo on startup11:10
RST38hcustomer complains "it has degraded"11:10
* GeneralAntilles wants booapp.11:11
RST38hin other words they purposely avoid versioning hell with these SSUs and sdks tied to each ssu11:11
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JaffaRST38h: I see your point, but if booapp is part of the system s/w then either a) service centre should reflash and update before returning device; or b) customer will get device back with the flashing orange [!] and upgrade themselves.11:13
RST38hJaffa: correct except there still remains a problem that his tablet will break after update11:14
JaffaRST38h: so in your scenario the tablet is broken purely by the upgrade?11:14
RST38hall right, they are telling to turn off all the phones11:14
GeneralAntillesGood luck, RST38h.11:15
RST38hJaffa: yes, if this particular version combo has got some problem11:15
RST38hgan: good luck I will need in 10 hours but thanks11:15
JaffaRST38h: Fair enough. But that's an argument against no SSUs. Anyway, have fun11:16
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GeneralAntillesAnybody want to try fixing this up?
qwerty12Hehe, that's fanoush's old website as well in the last link11:29
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qwerty12~lart qemu11:34
* infobot cuts off qemu's head with a halberd that could have been a little bit sharper11:34
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* Stskeeps yawns11:42
qwerty12Hey Stskeeps11:42
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Stskeepsqwerty12: i'm prodding fanoush a bit about a /etc/bootmenu.d/*.ext system, where the ext file describes files and stuff to be copied in and maybe places to hook into11:43
Stskeepsso it would be possible to make a .deb with a g_serial.ext and then simply run refresh_bootmenu.d to patch11:43
qwerty12Stskeeps: Sounds good, the way I'm currently doing it is quite dirty :/11:44
Stskeepsbut we'll see if i even got the right email on him :P11:44
hrwremember that initfs is mounted ro so you would need to remount it first before installing such package11:44
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Stskeepshrw: we know - i already made a bootmenu.d for items that deals with this problem11:45
* qwerty12 didn't realise initfs was ro during boot as well >.<, took me a while to figure out my mknod wasn't working >.<11:46
Stskeepsuse /tmp11:46
Stskeepsor mknod in advance11:46
qwerty12Yeah, that's the way I'm currently doing it :)11:46
qwerty12mknod in /tmp11:46
qwerty12Fanoush uses devices in /dev but that's because he has them copied as part of the bootmenu install11:46
Stskeepsyeah, i had to mknod loop0 as part of my deblet in a file thing11:47
XTLBut the initrd is a filesystem you can mount rw?11:47
XTLAnd you actually have space on it?11:47
qwerty12initfs and yes, in diablo, you can remount rw11:47
StskeepsXTL: well, on <Diablo it's not feasible as it might corupt11:47
qwerty12Well, I have 1.3MB left on mine.11:47
Stskeepsso it's better just to rely on reflashing11:47
XTLI suppose there's a fixed area reserved for it11:48
GAN8002MB pre-Diablo11:48
qwerty12I have my initfs on a computer so all I do is modify it on computer, mkfs.jffs2 and flasher-3.0 it to my device11:48
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qwerty12I'll clean up the g_serial initfs patch, a lot of unnecessary stuff being done there. What is annoying about g_serial is that it expects a connection first hence the need to run getty one, connect and run getty again11:50
infobotqwerty12 meant: I'll clean up the g_serial initfs patch, a lot of unnecessary stuff being donce there. What is annoying about g_serial is that it expects a connection first hence the need to run getty one, connect and run getty again11:50
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Stskeepsqwerty12: i saw someone not using getty11:50
XTLRunning getty's by hand?11:51
qwerty12Yer, I get getty to start on the temporary node I've made for g_serial.11:52
XTLI never had serial ports that vanish, though. I don't know how init copes. (Brute force?)11:52
rmrfchikanyone use stardict on maemo?11:52
rmrfchikstardict don't see dictionaries :(11:52
qwerty12XTL: I don't think maemo uses getty by default. I know to get a true console, you have to switch framebuffer manually and run getty manually.11:53
qwerty12rmrfchik: There's a certain directory layout, I didn't know it but the help file has it11:53
XTLqwerty12: I expect it doesn't.11:53
Stskeepsqwerty12: bash >/dev/ttygs0 2>/dev/ttygs0 </dev/ttygs011:53
rmrfchiki read it expect in /media/mmc2/startdic/dic11:54
XTLI thought this was about rigging usb serial ports11:54
Stskeeps(in busybox case, sh)11:54
Stskeepswhere ttygs0 is your node11:54
qwerty12Stskeeps: Brilliant, thanks a lot. I'll edit and try that.11:54
rmrfchikbut what it looking for? what files?11:54
Stskeepsqwerty12: ./bash --login --noprofile -i -s < /dev/ttygs0 > /dev/ttygs0 2>&1 as well11:54
qwerty12busybox sh probably sucks too much for the above11:54
qwerty12This is also busybox 1.00 in the initfs, not 1.61 as in maemo :>11:55
Stskeepsi know11:55
Stskeepsit sucks goat ass11:55
qwerty12Yeah :D11:55
Stskeepsi would really consider replacing it if there were no ill effects11:55
Stskeepsbut i'd just be met with the fremantle chant prolly11:55
qwerty12I'm going to replace it properly in maemo sometime11:56
qwerty12The coreutils from nokia's sdk repo suck.11:56
qwerty12So I build my own.11:56
qwerty12(seriously, using nokia's coreutils, I'd get segfaults on running ls -la)11:57
hrwqwerty12: I like busybox sh11:58
hrwit is limited a lot but if your script works in it then it should work anywhere11:58
qwerty12hrw: Yeah :/, I can't deny, same here. It's lacking but I find the speed good and the navigation is good unlike bash3 :/11:58
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, feel free to do as you please, but might as well not waste the effort. :P12:06
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qwerty12Stskeeps: using sh works nicely:
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qwerty12RST38h: gmp won't compile here, I'll try cs2008 toolchain12:20
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qwerty12RST38h: fuck qalculate. Maybe the qt gui can be built but I can't be arsed.13:25
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hrw~curse maemo13:31
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, maemo !13:31
hrwI am trying to setup usb nettworking..13:31
qwerty12Ooh, load applet is updated13:32
qwerty12hrw: at least we have diablo dummy module now :D13:32
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hrwbut why qemu/maemo does not want to do usb net ;(13:37
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qwerty12Hmm, what is the quickest way to tell if the watchdog is active?13:51
XTLHmm.. total deafness after flashing13:51
GAN800qwerty12, poke it with a stick?13:52
GAN800and which watchguard?13:52
qwerty12GAN800: But it may be a rottweiler, I don't wish to anger it.13:53
GAN800Can't you check for the lifeguard process for lifeguard?13:53
qwerty12Any of them. I'll kill xomap, should tell me if it's working...13:53
qwerty12GAN800: Good point actually, I'll check13:53
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Stskeepsqwerty12: if watchdog isnt active you'd reboot afaik :P14:14
qwerty12Stskeeps: Hmm, I'd reboot if it was active and I killed an important process or the system. Just need a good hexeditor and I can make some sample code to write to cal (which the code is useless without dsme source) :)14:15
hrwsomeone has usbnet.ko and cdc_ether.ko for diablo?14:15
qwerty12hrw: they should be in the initfs14:15
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hrwthey are part of kernel14:19
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qwerty12hrw: give me a min, I've got diablo kernel source tree here14:23
hrwqwerty12: I checked14:24
qwerty12dunno but here they are anyway:
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hrwtime to update qemu diablo to 23.4014:26
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kulvehmm.. Does anybody know about upnp details on maemo? Does the gnomevfs upnp backend try to first fetch a small part of the file to read e.g. meta info (artist, song name, etc) and then fetch the whole file in a new connection?14:36
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hrwfresh clean diablo + maemo extras + 'apt-get update/distr-upgrade' isntalls two packages from extras14:46
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: we're prolly going to have a bootmenu mailing list, you interested when that comes up?14:50
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: For sure :)14:50
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lcuk~lart dayjob14:52
* infobot hooks into a hydrant and hoses dayjob down14:52
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: that reminds me, I was unable to compile mtd-utils statically for initfs but I'll try 0xFFFF later14:55
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: and you didn't succeed in building uclibc matching?14:56
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: no :(, atm, i'm using uclibc toolchain from scratchbox people but it's wrong ABI hence the need to compile statically14:57
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hrwmaemo-pan 1.0.1 is for diablo. but website has only 1.0 available. does 1.0.1 is in extras-devel?15:08
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XTLFunny. What website?15:09
qwerty12_N800hrw: yes15:09
hrwXTL: garage15:10
yacoobhrw, o, cześć :)15:16
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hrwo hej yacubie15:20
BinkyPeople, flashing a kernel to the 770 is the same process as flashing a OS?15:20
qwerty12_N800Binky: yes, but you use -f -k instead15:21
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BinkyThank you15:21
qwerty12_N800Binky: oh, under windows or linux?15:21
BinkyI'm probably the person most afraid of WSOD ever.15:22
qwerty12_N800yeah, then it's flasher -f -k <kernel>15:22
BinkyI want to copy OS to MMC and install Fanoush's MMC kernel, but i don't want to break my device15:23
BinkyI'd have my 770 running almost as fast as a N800, but i'm idiot ^^ lol15:24
hrwBinky: REMEMber that you can boot kernel with flasher without flashing it15:25
hrw  --boot, -b [arg]              Boot the kernel with optional cmdline15:26
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BinkyBut runs the same?15:27
BinkyAnd if you reboot the kernel stills there?15:27
hrwflasher -b -l kernel15:27
hrwso it should boot to this kernel and after reboot it will use in-flash old kernel15:28
Binkyhrw, cool , thank you!15:28
hrw~curse h-a-m again15:29
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, h-a-m again !15:29
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: thanks, signing up...15:29
Binkyhrw, wtf?15:29
infobotlol is, like, stands for Laughing Out Loud. It is grammatically incorrect to use LOL in the first person; use 'heh' or 'haha' instead. If you want to use LOL, do '/me lol' instead.15:29
BinkyInfobot rules15:30
* infobot makes the rules. now stfu and code more addons.15:30
Stskeepsinfobot: you're encouraging non-irc standard behaviour15:30
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BinkyInfobot is not amused15:30
herwooddoes anyone know that is it difficult to create own flash image from tablet's current installation?15:30
herwoodor is it even possible?15:30
Binkyherwood, it's possible, since people created images for Angstrom, but I don't know why15:31
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herwoodBinky: I would use it for quick recovery15:32
herwoodif something goes wrong15:32
lbtherwood - lots of useful stuff here:
herwoodlbt: thanks, i'll take a look15:33
hrwAngstrom images are created not from maemo images but from scratch15:34
hrwherwood: it is possible15:34
herwoodhrw: what about the difficulty?15:35
qwerty12_N800herwood: you can make fiasco image using 0xffff or mamona image creator. you can compile your own kernel and modify initfs, rootfs using methods to mount a jffs2 image and mkfs.jffs2 to remake new image. i think poky people have tools to do this as well.15:36
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herwoodhmm, sounds quite tricky15:37
hrwherwood: dd if=/dev/mtdblock4 of=backup-of-my-rootfs.jffs215:38
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hrwbut if you will do that from working system I do not warranty that it will give poper stuff15:39
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herwoodhrw: ok15:41
hrwtyping in n810 emu is pain..15:41
herwoodI'll test that and see what it does15:41
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KhertanHello  ...16:00
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Khertani ve just see that there is a new portable game console based on linux open sourced nammed Wiz16:01
qwerty12_N800with that name, wiili comes to mind16:03
qwerty12_N800wiili as in wii linux lol16:03
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t_s_oKhertan: not really new, it seems to be a refresh of the gp2x line16:06
hrwif I have 'libicd-network-dummy' installed then should not I have 'DUMMY' listed in 'select connection' dialog?16:10
qwerty12_N800hrw: restart icd216:11
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qwerty12_N800it's now called "Dummy network"16:11
hrwqwerty12_N800: I just rebooted emulator and now I even see 'dummy network' in list but greyed out..16:12
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qwerty12_N800hrw: very odd, is it doing some sort of check?16:13
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hrwmoment - restarted qemu16:13
Khertanyep it s a gp2x ... :(16:13
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hrwqwerty12_N800: no idea16:15
hrwnow it does not even list dummy network...16:16
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qwerty12_N800hrw: ugh. what does gconftool -a /system/osso/connectivity/network_type/DUMMY say?16:21
_berto_for you users ->
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hrwNokia-N800-23-14:~#  gconftool -a /system/osso/connectivity/network_type/DUMMY network_modules = []16:26
hrwadd \n in between16:27
qwerty12_N800\? This is mine:16:28
qwerty12_N800N800-P!MP!N:~# gconftool -a /system/osso/connectivity/network_type/DUMMY16:28
qwerty12_N800 network_modules = []16:28
hrwsame here16:29
hrwqemu is slow..16:30
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qwerty12_N800it may be worth repacking icd1...16:30
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* qwerty12_N800 quite likes links2, i'll have to do proper build sometime16:32
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HexxxCan anyone help me? I want to download the maemo source code from Windows. Is there any windows application which browse maemo repository?17:06
JaffaHexxx: the source packages on are just tarballs - WinZip can open them, for one. Also, there's which may help17:07
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hrwwinzip? 7-zip17:15
HexxxI know how to open them. Maybe I do something wrong, but I can see the source code tarballs there. for example - here are no tarballs17:15
JaffaHexxx: mxr is a source code viewer & cross-referencing site.17:18 check17:18
Jaffa^^^ what hrw said :)17:18
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Hexxxthere are two directories at : "free" and "non-free". "non-free" directory is almost empty (libjpeg only), but in "free" there are so many subdirectories named "a", "b", "c" etc. Which one should I enter? or I should search all of them?17:26
Hexxxall of them, and do it manually from the browser?17:27
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Hexxxi thought there's a tarball which contains everything...17:28
trenkawhole internet17:29
Hexxxvery wittily17:29
hrwHexxx: there is no such thing as full maemo sources - very big amount of components are not open17:30
Hexxxheh :(17:30
hrwand many others are plainly broken17:30
hrwlike fscking 'dummy network' stuff17:30
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hrwmy emulated n810 has usb network card which works fine - unless you try to use maemo apps which use one of maemo crappy network connection handling libs17:32
Hexxxok. I just wanted to see how they work with OMAP cpu. Where is it in the source code?17:32
glasskernel sources17:32
Hexxxthank you17:32
glassmight have what you're looking for, "work with omap cpu" is pretty generic though17:33
Hexxxsetting up the system registers, PLL, watchdog etc17:34
HexxxMMU programming17:34
hrwthats kernel thing17:34
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hrwHexxx: and I think that maemo is not necessary good example17:35
hrwHexxx: look into linux-omap tree instead and look at more recent kernels17:35
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HexxxAs I remember linux-omap is developed for OMAP5912, and maemo is for OMAP2420. There's some differnce I think...17:37
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hrwHexxx: really?17:39
hrwyou looked at linux-omap two years ago?17:39
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hrwlinux-omap covers omap1 (7xx, 8xx, 1510, 17xx), omap2 (24xx), omap3 (3xxx) now17:39
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Hexxxwow, it's really improved17:40
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hrwthe fun is that linux-omap 2.6.26 boots fine on n8x0 but this is not supported at all by nokia so you do not have wifi etc17:41
HexxxThen, I'll go to linux-omap :)17:41
HexxxHave any one tried to flash Symbian phones with linux? :)17:42
hrwfrom what I know nokia internally got linux on n9517:42
hrwbut they do many internal fun things17:43
HexxxIf there's linux-omap for omap1710, why didn't anyone try to use it symbian phones. There's omap1710 there...17:43
trenkaHexxx: omap is not the only chip17:45
trenkain the phone, I mean17:45
Hexxxwhat do you mean?17:46
trenkawhat I said17:46
hrwHexxx: first you need to get to serial line, got jtag, access to bootloader etc17:46
hrwrunning linux on non-linux hardware is not easy task17:47
Hexxxjtag pins are accessible at the phones17:47
trenkajtag is disabled17:47
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HexxxWhy do they do the pins at all of the BB5 phones' boards? just for fun?17:50
HexxxOr you mean it's disabled by software?17:50
trenkaguess, you haven't ever seen linux and HS omap17:50
glassnobodys afaik done a bootloader for n95(or other nokia phones)17:51
glasstheres a linux port to siemens sx-1(s60 phone, arm)17:51
hrwsx1 was s60? rather s4017:52
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trenkahrw: it was symbian17:52
glasshrw: s6017:52
HexxxThere's all-know Dejan who says that he's able to connect to BB5 phones via Jtag. Is he lying?17:52
hrwand sx1 was disaster - few hardware versions, misc amount of ram17:52
glasscrazy button placement too17:52
hrwHexxx: ok - what will you do with n95/linux?17:52
Hexxxthe same things you do with N800 :)17:53
hrwHexxx: try to get laid?17:53
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hrwHexxx: no - n95 lack touchscreen17:53
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hrwit also has low resolution17:53
glassHexxx: port qt phone ed or what?   and lose the phone side?17:53
Hexxxlet's return to jtag question17:53
HexxxIs JTAG really disabled?17:53
trenkaon n810? it's disabled in HW17:54
hrwgive me 2 phones, service hardware and time/money and I will tell you17:54
trenkabb5 phones -- offtopic17:54
Hexxxthe phone side is runnung at the other CPU, connected to OMAP1710 via UART17:55
Hexxxso the phone part won't die17:55
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glasssome of the more recent s60's are singlecpu17:56
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trenkaglass: for example?17:56
Hexxxn91 - has 2 cpu, is it recent enough?17:57
glasstrenka: E50 for example, and almost every new s60 except n95(n82)17:57
glassit's cheaper17:57
glassHexxx: anyways, if you manage to flash and run any code of your own it would be newsworthy17:58
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Hexxxi know. But there are so many rumors.17:58
glassrumours don't mean jack shit17:59
glassforums are full of hopefuls who make wrong deductions17:59
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HexxxSome ot them tell JTAG is disabled everywhere, some of them tell it can be enabled by software, and some othem tell that it's enabled in some harware way17:59
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glassit's a thing that may have changed over years..   heard once it's enabled for proto-devices18:00
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qwerty12hrw: that's really odd. do you have wireless modules loaded?18:01
Hexxxfor DCT4 it was rather clear, there were too few phones which had jtag pins on the board. What's the reason in making jtag pins for both cpu's on each BB5 board?18:01
hrwqwerty12: I have but qemu lack wireless anyway18:02
qwerty12hrw: ah. I'll set up N800 emulation and have a look. If worst comes to worst, I'll dpkg-repack icd from chinook18:02
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hrwqwerty12: use n810 emulation - it has a keyboard (bit hard to use but keyboard)18:05
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qwerty12hrw: will do. do I need mtd1 from n810 or will my N800 one do?18:06
lopzhello, my N800 fell by 1.5 metres, no nothing bad happened .. he just left the chamber as if I had done so, then the goal again and everything normal .. but when I wanted to use the camera rotated 90 degrees and it was there when the problem .. does not rotate and turn the other way round, if the N800 turn 90 degrees the camera rotates 90 degrees, but everything is on the other hand, continues to operate the rotation, but bad .. on the contrary everythi18:06
lopzng Any idea?18:06
hrwqwerty12: you will be fine18:07
qwerty12ok, thanks18:07
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* qwerty12 gets ready for slow qemu compile :)18:15
Stskeepslopz: did rotation work before?18:16
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qwerty12hrw: what changes do I have to make for diablo partition layout in qemu? I searched logs and found but it's expired :\ .
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qwerty12great, thanks a lot18:22
lopzStskeeps, yes :S18:22
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hrwqwerty12: is handy18:22
qwerty12Ah, I can see why, thanks :)18:23
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lopzStskeeps, all normal operating entities, rotate the image the camera when it did, but now just broken, but upside down, the problem is when you have the N800 facing you, then rotate 90 degrees and the camera should see the environment that is behind device, it does, but you sample rotated 90 degrees, and if you put the device rotated 90 degrees, the picture remains unchanged broken, but there is always the other way around, any ideas? problem is hardwar18:25
lopze? or that .. : (18:25
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qwerty12bye hrw18:32
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qwerty12Stskeeps: lol, while I've been dicking around with compiling mtd-utils statically, I read some old emails and found out that fanoush has already done it :D18:35
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qwerty12Stskeeps: ping18:46
Stskeepslopz: maybe sensor went broken18:48
qwerty12Stskeeps: I compiled mtd-utils successfully/statically for initfs. Want the archive?18:48
Stskeepsqwerty12: sure - how big is it?18:48
lopzStskeeps, ouch18:49
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lopzbut I do not think, that serves the sensor, which operates only in reverse: S18:49
Stskeepslopz: did you pop the battery to make sure it's not some software stuff18:49
lopzStskeeps, sorry, how is "pop" ? :S18:50
qwerty12Stskeeps: Well, mkfs.jffs2 is 159KB stripped.... But check it out for yourself :) :
lopzmy english is bad, sorry18:50
Stskeepslopz: remove battery18:50
lopzah mm not18:50
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Stskeepsqwerty12: can you maybe make a list of hooks they want for initfs?18:51
Stskeepsif you want to include stuff18:51
qwerty12Stskeeps: what people want included in initfs?18:51
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Stskeepsqwerty12: well ways to include extensions18:52
Stskeepssuch as menu items, button assignments, yadda yadda18:53
Stskeepslike a module API18:53
Stskeeps / extensio18:53
qwerty12Sorry, doesn't sound like my area :/ :(18:53
Stskeepsmaybe things you would like to have an easy way to patch :P18:53
qwerty12Stskeeps: Hehe, you may as well have the toolchain me and fanoush are using. - Everything has to be compiled statically :/18:56
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* qwerty12 has that toolchain with static zlib and mtd-utils only :P18:57
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qwerty12Stskeeps: vote for this as well : :P18:59
lopzStskeeps, it is my problem :S
crashanddieqwerty12, voted19:02
Stskeepsqwerty12: don't have a bugzilla account19:02
qwerty12Thanks crashanddie :)19:02
qwerty12Stskeeps: ah :)19:02
lopzany idea ?19:02
Stskeepslopz: i think some people have similar problems. have you looked at for similar cases?19:03
lopznomis, not where to look .. that worked well before, but now no longer, after the fall: (19:04
lopznomis, not where to look .. that worked well before, but now no longer, after the fall: (19:04
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lopzStskeeps, any idea?19:13
Stskeepslopz: no sorry, if it doesnt work after popping battery it must be either a software bug or a hardware error19:14
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lopzStskeeps, pfff ok19:15
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Stskeepslopz: hey, i'm not a nokia guy, i am a humble user of tablets :P19:18
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qwerty12Stskeeps: Here's another one, 0xFFFF for initfs. I patched the dump function so that it won't ask to dump the rootfs, instead it just does it (not good if you want to run from a script and it asks you questions :/) and I removed the prompt to ask you to strip the dumps.
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Stskeepsqwerty12: *nod*19:51
GeneralAntillesandre___, poke.19:51
* qwerty12 can't find an N810 mac address >.,19:52
qwerty12Hehe, thanks but I found at the same time :)19:54
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lcukThank fsck its friday \o/19:56
* lcuk cleans his ball19:57
lcukdo people put their balls under the shower or just wipe em with a cloth?19:58
GeneralAntillesKnowing you, I'd boil them.19:58
lcukwell it worked anyway, there was some fluff caught around.  all clean now20:00
qwerty12I kick mine around to hopefully get some dirt off.20:01
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qwerty12*sigh* qemu is a temperamental bastard20:03
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Eduliis there a way to download a map of a certain city in maemo mapper without having to visit manually the place ? it's a bit tiring :P20:04
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lcukEduli, nowadays we have efficient postal service who will allow you to mail items anywhere in the world.  just send your 810 to your aunt in bell air and get her to grab the maps20:06
oilinki7Eduli: you eman  like turku?20:06
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Edulixvisit the place with the pen...20:07
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Edulixnot with gps xD20:08
oilinki7Edulix: maps->manage maps  etc20:08
oilinki7ok. it would be a great  thing to be able to   download  maps from a certtain  country20:10
EdulixI would like to be able to select an area or city and download it20:10
oilinki7country level  7,9,11 and ciity level 520:10
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oilinki7Edulix: you can do that already20:11
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Edulixhow? I'm trying :P20:12
oilinki7maps-> manage maps20:12
GAN800Read the help that covers all this stuff?20:14
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Edulixyes I think I know now how to download, but it's a bit cumbersome20:16
GAN800How do you plan on figuring out  what city ==?20:17
GAN800or country?20:17
GAN800It's more complicated than you think when you're jacking raster maps.20:18
oilinki7GAN800: it would be great if  we woud be able to load maps for certain  country20:18
Edulixwell te idea is to add some points to the iternary and then use the option to download the maps for the points of the itirenary20:18
GAN800download along route20:19
oilinki7GAN800: surely very complicated when  doing  with computer20:19
GAN800oilinki7, but county == what, exactly?20:19
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oilinki7GAN800: country as  thailand.20:19
GAN800That doesn't mean anything to Maemo Mapper.20:20
oilinki7GAN800: follow the country area. download the main    areas, and download the roads.20:20
GAN800Google wont give you a section to download when you give it a country.20:20
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GAN800How do you get the country area?20:20
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lcukgoogle uses centrepoint/scale doesnt it?20:21
GAN800It's more complicated than you realize.20:21
oilinki7GAN800: that's true. but the people  who live here will do the work for it20:21
EdulixGAN800: the thing is, I live in seville, and I want the map of seville. I don't want to create a route just to get the map. and plus there's the option to select the number of grid cells to dnowload. I don't know what's the size of a gri cell so what's the use?20:21
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* GAN800 is really goddamn tired of the 'convergence' device moaning.20:22
lcukEdulix, i agree, mapping coordinates and scales are mumbo jumbo to the common man20:22
derfYou know, a database of geopolitical boundaries on the country scale does not seem hard.20:22
lcuklike RGB is useless to most users (hence pantone colors)20:22
derfIt'd just take some work.20:23
Edulixderf: even easier what I need is just: select an area in the screen to download, and then download it.20:23
GAN800derf, no, but somebody has to make one that Maemo Mapper can access.20:23
Edulixno need to even database for anything :P20:23
oilinki7GAN800: how to create understanding of the borderss20:23
derfEdulix: It already can download the current area displayed on the screen.20:23
GAN800Edulix, it already works that way.20:23
GAN800Frame the area you want, download.20:24
derfI'm not sure how selecting an area wouldbe much of an improvement.20:24
Edulixderf: so I can download to the maximum level of resolution the map shown in the screen?20:24
oilinki7GAN800: in thailand, nobody  would go to burma. therefore the  roads and maps are unimportant.20:24
derfEdulix: Yes.20:24
oilinki7and this is the same with most of the countries in the world20:25
GAN800Edulix, have you TRIED the manage maps... feature? :rolleyes:20:25
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EdulixGAN800: yes..20:25
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oilinki7in the maps it's the same, but in real life  not20:25
EdulixGAN800: I now see how to do it lol20:26
oilinki7I tought that this problem  was cleared 8 years ago20:28
oilinki7wellcome to the global world20:29
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Edulixoilinki7: it was not cleared apparently, maemo mapper is crashing to me20:47
Edulixoh  okey20:49
Edulix / is full20:49
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hyankovanyone knows if we are getting the new rDesktop for non-Diablo OS?20:53
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* riot just got a 810.. wow21:00
riotimpressive device, impressive software!21:00
riotfunny thing: the builtin calculator calculates this: 1/3 = 0.33333333 * 3 = 0.99999999 ;)21:01
bedboiactually i used it as a GPS device in my England + Galles tour21:01
riotbest not use this for scientific stuff :)21:01
bedboiand it worked quite well21:01
bedboiwell i guess it's quite normal21:01
riotyeah, i had a first fix just some minutes ago. With OSM and all the maemo-mapper-stuff, that is really nice to use21:02
bedboii never managed to get a good use of maemo-mapper however21:02
riotnormal. hmmm. Other recent nokia-devices don't calc like that anymore.. Well, i'm rather gonna use numpy et al anyway :)21:02
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bedboijust install octave on it :)21:03
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riotbedboi: nah, i'm a python coder :)21:04
riotnumpy, scipy, etc ftw!21:05
bedboii see, ipython and co.21:05
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hyankov1one thing i hate about the 'internet tablet' is the lack of internet :/  if the N8X0 could use 3g, or even edge - it could be the perfect device21:15
lbtno, to be perfect it needs to be glossy black21:15
lbtall over21:16
Kegetysinternets work fine for me :)21:17
lbtall of them?21:17
* TZander just uses his phone (over bluetooth) to do the 3g.21:18
hyankov1if you have WiFi nearby21:18
hyankov1or a second device to BT for u21:18
TZanderIt would be too expensive to get a second subscription ;)21:18
hyankov1but walking around with 3-4 devices kind of sucks21:18
Kegetys2 is enough21:18
Kegetysnit wouldnt make a very good phone anyway so youd nee to still carry a separate one21:19
hyankov1there is another option. broadband + broadband card WiFi-er + N8X021:19
* TZander doesn't walk around with my wireless basestation :P21:19
rioti like it exactly the way it is. I have a tiny E51 for phone and can now decide wether i want full fledged internet/pda stuff to be with me (which i definitely do _not_ want e.g. at a party in a disco..)21:20
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* riot has wireless all around him. At work, at university, at home, in the city. Hm. I'd really have to consider taking the PHONE with me here in future..21:22
* lbt lives in the countryside :( .... ...... :D21:22
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qwerty12_N800poor lbt21:22
hyankov2riot, a real nerd always goes with a computer in the disco21:22
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lbtI am so disconnected21:23
riothyankov2: yes, but with two?? I consider the e51 to be a computer.21:23
hyankov2lol, i was just kidding21:23
riotthe e51 has the advantage of not bulging out the pockets as much as the 810 (though its the same width) - which sure looks sexier to the girls :)21:23
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riotuh, i had some problems mounting the third partition of my microSD, which is ext3. Any problems with ext3??21:26
* moontiger uses bluetooth for net out of wifi too21:26
qwerty12_N800riot: nah, but which modules are in memory atm?21:28
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riotno ext321:28
qwerty12_N800riot: insmod mbcache jbd ext321:29
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riotuh, where are all the modules? /sbin/insmod can't find ext321:32
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Stskeeps /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1 is a good place21:33
riotaah, thx :)21:33
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riotthere we go. Nice.21:35
moontigerStskeeps, if i want to use ext3 on my sd card do i need to insmod the ext3 thingy too?21:36
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Stskeepsmoontiger: yeah21:37
Stskeepsmbcache, jbd, and ext321:37
Stskeepsif you're dealing with normal maemo operations21:37
moontigerand does insmod force it to get loaded on restart too?21:37
Stskeepsnot afaik21:37
moontigerso each boot i have to insmod?21:38
* moontiger considers putting xfce on the tablet21:38
moontigerStskeeps, is lxde any more lightweight than xfce?21:39
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hyankov1guys, is there another major source of application aside from maemo.org21:40
riotisnt there a list of modules to load on startup?21:40
crashanddiehyankov1, you mean like just going to and looking at the applications ?21:41
crashanddiehyankov1, add maemo extras to your application manager, and just browser the app manager21:41
PebbyOn debian systems I'm pretty sure it autoloads things in /etc/modprobe.d/21:42
hyankov1crashanddie: right, i already have that, thanks. i was just wondering if there is another website with a list of applications and stuff. or another huge repository. i guess not21:42
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riotPebby: that dir is existant here but empty. So, i have some modules loaded - where did that happen?21:42
crashanddiehyankov1, not really, plus, having a long list of repositories isn't a good idea21:43
hyankov1i figured :( it's taking me 15 minutes to check for updates21:43
Pebbyriot: I'm not terribly familiar with how it works on Debian, but on gentoo, modules can get pulled in as dependencies21:43
Pebbyriot: For example, when ALSA tries to load, it says 'oh hey, i need a sound card driver' and will load your sound driver21:43
riotPebby: hm, not on the device i have.. ext3 refused to load without mbcache and jbd21:44
crashanddiePebby, erhm21:44
crashanddiePebby, you just have your soundcard compiled in the alsa module21:44
riotnormally, there's a /etc/modules where you just have a list of modules to be loaded21:44
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riotcrashanddie: on my debian sid, if i load alsa, the soundcard-_module_ gets loaded automatically. Could be some debian-magic though..21:45
Pebbyriot: err, yeah, that's the file... I know I was autoloading, say, FUSE on my old debian system that way21:46
riotjeez, aah. very stripped down system. :/21:48
hyankov1hey, has anybody here tried the CarMan application?21:49
PebbyInteresting... my n810 doesn't seem to have a depmod command too. I remember debian had that and something like update-modules, and I also have to use depmod if I want modprobe to ever work on gentoo21:49
hyankov1the bluetooth adapter is kind of expensive (160-200$)21:49
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Pebbyriot: so is the problem your ext3 module won't load if you put it in /etc/modules?21:49
riotPebby: i haven't tried yet, as i suppose that won't do it21:50
Pebbyriot: err, sorry for jumping in late - what makes you think it won't do it?21:50
riottoo easy :)21:50
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riotcrashanddie: hmm, ok, i thought about something like an initscript.21:52
riotthough that one is a bit overkill - i don't want _all_ of them loaded :)21:52
crashanddiethat's exactly what this is21:52
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Pebbyriot: If you're formatting your SD to ext3, why not use ext2? ;)21:53
crashanddieThat's probably the weirdest question I've ever heard21:54
crashanddie"Hey, if you want a car that runs off diesel, why not buy one that runs off petrol ?"21:54
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riotPebby: a) ext2 isn't loaded either b) i'd like to have a journal21:55
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TZandercrashanddie: its more "nice car, lets remove the doors and the roof!"21:56
riothmm. Free cabrio.21:56
PebbyWell, journal on your nokia tablet.. anyway, don't let me stop you from doing what you want, but I'm confused. I have ext2 support on my n810 =/21:56
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riotis the hostname relevant to anything? Can i change it without anything breaking up?21:58
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riotPebby: yes, journal. Sure! Its almost made for such devices. Remove the battery and a mounted ext2 has some "problems"..21:59
PebbyYeah, that makes sense, but I'm not running an OS off the SD card either ;)22:03
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* riot neither. I just prefer ext3 over any fat-stupidity, esp. since all my card-reading devices (except the e51) read ext3 happily22:05
riothmm. Now it even automounted the card - how friendly.22:06
Pebbyoh, don't get me wrong riot... I was tearing my hair out with fat22:06
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riotGAH. The internal card vanished!22:07
PebbyMy n810 finally got to the point where the internal card was unusable and all its automounting crap just confused it, so I formatted that thing to ext too. Even the way the n810 mounts the external card is totally wacky... it runs a little script hidden somewhere22:07
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riotPebby: yea, seems to be somewhat buggy22:08
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moontigerPebby, if you ext2 the internal card then the maps thingy doesnt work right?22:09
* riot has a look at maemo's init.d22:09
Pebbymoontiger: no, you just need to back up the files then copy 'em back22:10
Pebbymoontiger: It still automounts and reads as /media/mmc2 as usual, it's just using ext2 instead of FAT... FAT just gave me a ton of headaches when the card mysteriously got corrupted and became unrecoverable by any means I could figure out =(22:11
moontigerPebby, so the maemo gps nav app still works ok with ext2?22:12
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Pebbymoontiger: I'm not sure why it wouldn't...? I haven't tried it yet, but if all the files are there, why would maemo gps care about the file system to hold the files? ;)22:13
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riothm. What does osso stand for?22:15
moontigerPebby, i thought read somewhere ... maybe it was something else :)22:15
Jaffariot: It's deprecated but used to stand for something like Open Source Software Operations22:16
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riotJaffa: thanks.22:17
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andre___yeah, osso was an internal department in nokia as far as i know22:19
andre___(or "is"?)22:19
JaffaWas. Now is "Maemo Software"22:20
riotsounds way finnish :)22:20
andre___ok. so i didn't leak non-official information ;-))22:21
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Jaffaandre___: nah, it's on Task:Maemo_brand22:21
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GeneralAntillesandre___, internal wikilinks are [[<article name>]]22:24
andre___oh no, somebody's read my activity log :-P22:24
andre___too many wiki markup languages out there22:24
GeneralAntillesand fixed. . . . :P22:24
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riotmmmhm. I already love maemo-mapper22:33
riotthats what i'd call a navigation-solution :)22:34
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* Jaffa afks22:43
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rm_youVagalume uses gstreamer for audio out, yes?22:46
rm_youI wonder how hard it would be to make it use alsa... or if it has been done already22:46
rm_youif it is built for debian (which it appears to be) as well as maemo, it probably supports alsa? maybe? >_>22:48
rm_youpft it uses gstreamer there too22:48
rm_youwait, can GSTREAMER use alsa?22:50
rm_youwhat's going on?22:50
* GeneralAntilles hopes dneary gets back soon so we can start cleansing the old wiki.22:50
rm_youoh god, linux audio system overlapping hell22:50
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GeneralAntillesrm_you, just be glad they haven't ganged up on us yet.22:55
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rm_youGeneralAntilles: aha!23:06
rm_youthis should be easy23:06
rm_youswitching Vagalume to using ALSA output (so i can use a2dp with it) :P23:06
rm_yougotta run to work, but it should be like one quick change and a recompile23:07
rm_youwhen i get back home. anyway, l8r23:07
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sinakhello. If I buy a n810 from germany, will the gps be compatible in my country?23:20
Juhazthe name comes from _global_ positioning system...23:21
sinakyou 're right. thank u :-)23:23
Juhazthe preloaded maps might be wrong, can't recall how big an area they come with23:24
Juhazbut if so, those can always be changed23:24
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keesjjust take care that your get a qwerty keypad23:26
Stskeepsmoontiger: i only tried xfce recently - lxde should be more lightweight but also not that featureful :P tried KDE3 and it wasn't actually half bad23:27
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moontigerStskeeps, i used to use kde3 series a lot but now i prefer xfce ... might look at lxde soon ... i like qt as a lib tho ... wish there was a qt/gtk binding :)23:44
riotJuhaz, sinak: The german model comes with benelux and german maps.23:44
riotyet, that isn't really of interest, as there are plenty of very good map-sources on the internet (remember, its an internet tablet, right? ;)23:45
sinakso riot if I want to install greek maps can I find them from the internet?23:45
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riotsinak: do you know ?23:48
riotwhy install?? _real_ maps are too large to install23:48
riotbut, yes, there are tools to save maps.23:49
sinakcan I use google maps in gps?23:49
moontigerriot, i use the maps app cos sometimes im not online23:49
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moontigerusually when im driving in fact23:49
riotsinak: sure. that makes the whole thing interesting. Have a look at
moontigerso for me the $100 for 3yrs of the turn by turn was a good deal23:50
riothmm.. canola2 is a bit dumb, as it seems :(23:50
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riotfinds no movies, can't read my id3-tags.. hmmm23:50
sinaknice app23:50
sinakthank u23:50
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AngieQanybody here have success at using a dvorak BT keyboard with a n810?23:51
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riotgood thing, there is mplayer.23:55
riotaah, perfect. Works like a charm :)23:56
AngieQi find that i have to rescan my movies folder with canola after adding new vids23:56
AngieQother wise it is too dumb to see them23:56
riothmm. Canola doesn't support any real codecs23:56
AngieQsorta drives me crazy23:56
riotwhich mplayer does (plays really everything)23:56
riotand no media-scanning necessary23:56
riotits just "not so pretty"23:57
AngieQriot: yeah, i keep thinking that i should just ditch canola and go back to mplayer23:57
PebbyCanola is proprietary too =/23:57
AngieQcanola feels like windows media center too.... ewwwwwww23:58

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