IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2008-08-28

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lcukif you were actually talking face to face, would you have been hand waving whilst you described that?00:01
derfNo. I actually know how to do all of that.00:01
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ProteousI've been playing Urban Terror since it came out00:01
Proteouslove that game00:01
derfTrifocal tensors are vastly superior to fundamental matrices because you can get pointwise correspondences between 3 frames, whereas a fundamental matrix only gives you correspondence between a point and an epipolar line.00:01
lcukderf, i meant to help with the explanation like a conductor?00:02
derfThat ambiguity mean the correspondences used to estimate fundamental matrices have far more outliers.00:02
derfEven after applying a directed search on the initial estimate returned by RANSAC (or MLESAC or whatever the favoriate variant of the day is).00:03
* lcuk wouldv just tracked similar color patterns00:03
derfThat's the interest point detection part.00:03
lcukyer, we brushed over it when looking at the barcodes00:03
derfYou want specifically color patterns whose position can be reliably estimated in two dimensions (points on flat homogeneous regions or edges are no good).00:04
lcuksimon has a much better understanding of the math :)00:04
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derfAnd you want to describe them in a way that is invariant to some geometric distortion (similarity transforms are usually good enough) as well as lighting and contrast.00:04
lcukbut since in a shopping centre youi will get blocks of similar color it helps somewhat,though wouldnt be of use in a generic environment00:04
derfBecause of course your camera's exposure is going to be changing constantly while filming.00:04
WolfpawsI have a question: How do you make the GUI working with SDK?00:05
lcukderf, and with the 8x0 the camera changes randomly anyway - the chroma channels are so noisey (though if you can desaturate them it helps)00:05
derfIf you actually build an accurate model of the camera you can back out physically accurate colors with a high dynamic range, but most people just try to blend away the variations.00:06
lcukthats because the original colors look "wrong" on a computer screen00:06
derfDealing with vingetting and everything else has always seemed like more work than it was worth.00:06
lcukso do you work with images in the daytime, or general engineering with this as a sidetrought00:07
derflcuk: It's because the camera is probably doing auto-exposure adjustments, because the spectral response is not uniform across the field of view (due to differences in the edges caused by the optics), etc.00:07
derfThis is one of the fields I do research in.00:08
lcukis this rarer if you use a normal camera with flash vs running video in low light00:08
lcukie: if i took a series of images along the same path as a movie, simply because the lighting is better would cause it to be better quality (now i write it its obvious)00:09
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lcukhave you lot started doing the extrapolation movies from google tracking cars yet?00:09
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lcukhmmm, x11 over ssh - im using putty. if i run my program it wont run because it cant get x11 screen.   but if i run it from a local console on the laptop itself it works00:11
yacooblcuk, there might be plenty of reasons, starting with X11Forwarding off on one of the ends00:13
lcuki want to run it on the laptops screen00:13
lcuknot forwarding00:13
lcukim sat infront of desktop with laptop at the side of me00:13
GracktopAnyone here running leopard? I'm trying to get usbnet working and I'm having no luck.00:13
yacooblcuk, you ssh to box foo, you want to run x11 app on foo, and have it display its windows on the machine you sshed from?00:14
yacooblcuks, agree on one of the options :D00:14
lcukcode and app are stored on laptop.  i want to compile and run directly on there.    my windows desktop has putty, ive connected from there into the laptop00:15
lcuki want to execture the binary from my desktop window and have console stuff float up there, but the actual app running on the laptop00:15
GracktopWhere do you want the windows to show up?00:15
lcukon the laptop00:15
GracktopYou'll have to set your DISPLAY variable appropriately00:15
* lcuk hunts00:16
GracktopI /believe/ that is all it takes.00:16
lcukthanks Grackle_00:16
GracktopHeh, well, thank me when it works. >.>00:16
yacoobyeah. Try export DISPLAY=:000:16
yacoobor localhost:000:17
yacoobDISPLAY variable points to a running x11 server, if it's on the same machine, you only need to specify display number. Which is usually 0.00:18
yacoobThe xserver might not let you in, if that's the case run either 'xhost +localhost' in xterm on your x11 session, or xauth in your ssh.00:18
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lcukGracktop, yacoob bleugh, its not letting me in but ill just move the laptop itself and run from there, im not wastin time on it.  thanks for suggestions it is a permissions thing cos im a normal user - ill sort it when i get annoyed again ;)00:33
Gracktophah okay00:33
* lcuk copies n saves the notes tho00:35
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yacooblcuk, try 'xhost +' :)00:36
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yacoobit disables auth alltogether00:36
lcukroot@gary-laptop:/home/gary/Documents/liqbase_www_jpeg# xhost +00:37
lcukNo protocol specified00:37
lcukxhost:  unable to open display ":0.0"00:37
yacoob(which is a bit of a security risk, because someone else can connect to your x11 session and display, say, 'enter your password' dialog)00:37
yacoobah, not as a root.00:37
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yacoobif you act as a root, you have the same problem :)00:37
yacoobjust launch a terminal in your x11 session, and input it from there.00:38
lcukno, i sudo su'ed to see if that was why xhost was having problems00:38
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yacoobthat won't help :)00:38
lcukno, i got told everything was disabled, lemme just try again00:40
lcukahh but now that might be no export DISPLAY..00:41
lcuki now get as far as the segmentation fault \o/ w000t00:42
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* lcuk goes n fixes that00:42
lcukthank you..00:42
lbt'night all00:48
lcukgnite lbt00:51
lcukholy flock!!! liqbase looks amazing on my laptop :D00:54
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fish_i have send my firefox via X forwarding to my n770 running OS2008. first: it works ;) second: if i click on a text field the keyboard doesnt popup. i guess its because OS2008 cant know when to popup the keyboard on a non-hildon app. but can i start the keyboard manuell somehow? some shell command?00:57
texel`lcuk: erm... not to be obtuse, but what is libqbase?00:58
lcukeasiest place to start :)
RST38bisargh... ntfs corrupted00:59
lcukisnt that an oxymoron00:59
RST38bischkdsk kinda fixed it though00:59
texel`lcuk: NICE.01:01
texel`lcuk: you wrote this entirely yourself?01:02
lcukthat was a couple of months ago01:02
texel`Nicely done.01:02
texel`lcuk: is there a git archive somewhere for it?01:02
lcukive added image blitting support (with new fresh alpha test blending) and camera support and ive been hacking away at a whole widget set01:02
texel`lcuk: VERY nice.01:02
lcuktexel, there is an older version parked in the garage01:03
texel`Okay, I'll have a look, then.01:03
texel`I take it this is a maemo-specific app?01:03
lcuksee how you get on with that, and if you are interested ill let you know which bits have gone01:03
lcukits been compiled for a laptop in the past by kotzcarny but im just doing it myself now to see a few things01:04
* texel` nods01:04
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lcuktexel, the youtube video links to an itT thread which has info on running the playtest version and hints about setting it up and stuff01:05
lcukjust give me a shout if you need a hand with anything01:05
yacoobkotczarny? 8)01:06
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lcukshit, have i typoed him again01:06
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texel`lcuk: very interesting idea for usingt he Xv extension.01:10
texel`lcuk: So you're essentially using the DSP side of things for blitting. =o)01:10
lcukit was the only thing i could do :$01:10
lcukno, its all cpu for now01:10
yacoobit's just funny, I didn't know there's another Polish person here :D01:10
texel`lcuk: Ahh. Okay, that makes a bit more info.01:10
jottlcuk: you could have used the framebuffer and saved one extra blit :)01:10
* lcuk was not spending £350 on something that went slower than a .net pda01:10
yacoob(this means 'black cat')01:10
infobottexel` meant: lcuk: Ahh. Okay, that makes a bit more sense.01:10
lcukjott, but then i wouldnbt have it on my laptop right now :)01:10
jottlcuk: with some portability considerations, why not? it has a framebuffer too :)01:10
jott hmmm nice n800 case :)01:10
lcukjott, absolutely - let me get these out of the way and if i feel in the slightest restricted ill do what i can :)01:10
lcukwas just thinking you were quiet jott :)01:10
lcuki followed up on the blending01:10
jottah just passed by and needed a little rant :P01:10
jottaye! show it to us :)01:10
lcuki treat each layer as greyscale (barring a tweak for UV) and it works a treat01:10
jottdo you support color jpegs in the meantime?01:10
jottor are they still shown in grayscale?01:10
lcukill send it over when ive done some testing and made the functions actual - i just replaced the generic image blit with imageblit+alpha to see how much of a slowdown i got01:10
lcukno full color01:10
lcukeach plane is simply treated as a 256bit plane01:11
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* lcuk has liqbase in BIGGGGGGGGGG next to him on laptop01:11
lcukill have to put it over the other side of the room for correct dpi01:11
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fish_well, matchbox-keyboard looks good when spawned remote01:29
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lcukjott, do you think i should try liqbase p2p01:39
lcuki have been looking for a server machine - now its my code and it can act as both :)01:40
GeneralAntillesI want to see Freenode ban you for gibberish spam01:40
lcuksorry GeneralAntilles :) im quite happy01:40
WolfpawsHm... What package should I install for terminal emulator?01:41
lcuktheres a term on 200801:41
WolfpawsIt doesn't exust under "utilities" on my SDK...01:41
lcukwhat? inside the emulated device in xepyhr?01:42
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jottlcuk: i would at least not rely on internet connectivity. so either a local server or p2p would be good. p2p should be easier for an enduser.01:55
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lcukjott i was thinking specifically for at the summit with my local laptop hooked up to the display ;)01:56
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moontigerlcuk, you going to the summit in berlin?02:22
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lcukmoontiger yes, but i cant stop now02:22
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jottmoontiger: will you be there?02:22
* jott will come too 02:22
moontigerim in san francisco until december so i cant :(02:23
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ProteousI live close to SF02:30
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moontigerProteous, where abouts?02:34
moontigerahhhhhhhh the wine country :)02:35
moontigerim in the castro in san fran02:35
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Proteousnot superclose, but within an hour02:35
Proteousheh, yeah02:35
Proteousfitting that I am currently working in the Napa office of MyWinesDirect.com02:36
moontigerooooooooooooo nice :)02:36
moontigeri used to live in south africa ... in cape town ... lots of wines there too :)02:36
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moontigerso do you have a spill-proof case for your n810? ;)02:37
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ProteousI enjoy the tons of beer microbrewerys around here more :)02:37
Proteousheh, no02:37
moontigermmmmmmmmmmmm beer :)02:37
Proteousactualy I really need to pick up some screen protectors02:37
moontigermy fave beer in from seattle ... mac'n'jack02:37
Proteousnow that I have a small scratch in my screen02:37
Proteoushavn't heard of that02:38
moontigeronly in seattle ... nice and hearty and good :)02:38
moontigerkind of an amber ale type thing02:38
ProteousI like a lot of Lagunitas beers02:40
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moontigerahhhh ive had those02:52
moontigerthey are good too02:52
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GeneralAntillesWhy do people insist on putting "RFE:" in the summaries of bugs that are clearly marked as enhancements? :\03:07
moontigercos people dont read03:08
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GeneralAntillesMan, how'd I miss this one?
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GeneralAntillesWish that person had logged in.03:12
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GeneralAntillesAnything that starts with those first two sections HAS to be deleted.03:14
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moontigerGeneralAntilles, is the wiki a paid job for you?03:19
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moontigerso you just try to keep things clean and neat for the love of it?03:20
GeneralAntillesWell, that, and the karma whoring. :P03:20
moontigerahhhhhhhhhh ... and the karma does what exactly?03:21
GeneralAntillesWell, there's actually no karma from the wiki yet03:21
moontigeris the wiki a nokia thing?03:21
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GeneralAntillesBut karma is factored into who gets the device discount codes, who gets sponsorships, and who is eligible for Community Council candidacy.03:22
GeneralAntillesThe wiki is a thing.03:22
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GeneralAntillesthere's just no karma plugin for it at the moment.03:22
moontigerand isnt controlled by nokia?03:22
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GeneralAntillesNot anymore03:23
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GeneralAntillesThat was one of the big points of the branding shakeup03:23
PebbyHey guys, I'm just getting scratchbox set up and am getting an error on compiling that looks like this: /var/tmp/ccrKOgBw.s:16461: Error: selected processor does not support `pld [ip,#0]' -- any ideas?03:23
GeneralAntilles~maemo-brand is
infobotGeneralAntilles: okay03:24
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GeneralAntillesNokia wanted to use the Maemo trademark for themselves03:24
PebbyWebsearching only revealed that several other people were having trouble with 'pld' on arm platforms, not many solutions =/03:24
GeneralAntillesBut it wasn't a well regulated or controlled trademark03:24
GeneralAntillesNow we have Maemo and (much like Mozilla and instead of just maemo.03:24
moontigerdid maemo exist pre nokia?03:24 is the community03:24
GeneralAntillesNokia created Maemo03:25
GeneralAntillesMaemo is Nokia03:25
moontigerahhhh i c03:25
moontigerhow did u get the wiki job?03:26
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GeneralAntillesAnybody know what that is?03:29
GeneralAntillesKorean, I guess?03:29
GeneralAntillesDoes anybody read Korean? :P03:29
GeneralAntillesmoontiger, I'm just a volunteer03:29
GeneralAntillesThe way any volunteer gets a job03:29
GeneralAntillesThey step up and get to work. ;)03:29
ShadowJKslow wiki is slooow.03:29
jottGeneralAntilles: Seems to be
rm_youThere is a disturbance in the force...03:30
rm_youGeneralAntilles: pong?03:30
moontigerGeneralAntilles, what do you do for a paid job, if you dont mind me asking?03:30
* GeneralAntilles throws a ping-pong paddle at rm_you's face.03:30
GeneralAntillesmoontiger, fulltime student at the moment.03:30
moontigerShadowJK, yes its slow for me too today03:31
GeneralAntillesI usually work in a used bookstore back home during the summer, though. ;)03:31
GeneralAntillesHrm, how much of this is still relevant in ICD2?03:31
rm_youGA is a student, yes? :P03:32
rm_youAs are quite a few of us here <_<03:32
GeneralAntillesHonestly, I'd rather have an article detailing the various dummy connection packages (usbnet, PAN)03:32
GeneralAntillesrm_you is lag city, yes?03:32
rm_youheh, I was out03:33
rm_youand your message scrolled off03:33
rm_youall I know is that you messaged me, according to XChat <_<03:33
GeneralAntillesI don't even remember03:33
moontigerthe wiki is very very slow right now for me03:33
moontigerstudents ahhhhh nice03:33
GeneralAntilles770 issue, maybe?03:33
GeneralAntillesSomething else?03:33
moontigeri used to be a student03:33
GeneralAntillesThe server upgrades were seemingly going to take place on Monday. . . .03:34
moontigerGeneralAntilles, that bluetooth stuff is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy out of date03:34
GeneralAntillesThat seems to not be happening, though.03:34
GeneralAntillesmoontiger, you want to update it? :P03:34
moontigerjust need bluetooth PAN package and voila!03:35
moontigeri use it :)03:35
moontigeri will yes ... how do i do that?03:35
GeneralAntillesLogin, click edit at the top.03:35
moontigermy garage login?03:35
GeneralAntillesThough it'll probably change again soon.03:35
* mgedmin gave up trying to set up PAN on Ubuntu03:35
rm_youI think i can actually login to wiki now :P03:36
rm_youGeneralAntilles: my awemazing-tastic switch got here today :P happy03:36
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GeneralAntillesTime to shuffle lots of big files around.03:36
rm_you24 port gigabit managed switch :P03:36
rm_youwith rack mounting brackets :P03:37
rm_youI need to buy a rack03:37
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moontigerGeneralAntilles, i edited that page ... let me know if what i did sucks :)04:06
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GeneralAntillesDoesn't maemo-pan depend on the dummy network package?04:09
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moontigerit says that and it says that that gets installed automatically04:13
moontigerits a dependency04:13
GeneralAntillesAnyway, yeah, the content is fine04:15
GeneralAntillesI just need to touch up the formatting a bit.04:15
PebbyI'm not sure if it's a "bad-thing(tm)," but as to my prior problem involving 'processor does not support pld,' I just set my CFLAGS to use -march=armv5te04:15
moontigerGeneralAntilles, i wont be in the least offended if you completely re-edit it ... if i can help at all let me know :)04:16
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lcuk_afknite chan04:24
* GeneralAntilles puts cold water in lcuk's bed.04:25
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Grackle_I don't seem to be able to get my NIT to work in ethernet gadget mode :/04:29
Grackle_If it's in peripheral mode with g_ether loaded and g_file_storage unloaded, then the device does not show up on the host at all (when looking using lsusb)04:30
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rm_youupgrading the firmware on my switch ^_^04:42
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moontigerGeneralAntilles, that looks very nice :)04:52
crashanddieyeah, GeneralAntilles is quite the looker04:52
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moontigercrashanddie, heh i meant the page :)~05:25
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moontigerim outtie ... laterz06:52
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gregoroviusI can't get _anyone_ to ship me an igo stowaway to south america for a reasonable price =/07:15
gregoroviusdunno why everyone on ebay is so us-centric07:17
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gregoroviusand amazon only ships books & cds down here07:18
rm_you_know anyone in the US?07:19
rm_you_could get it shipped and reshipped <_<07:19
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gregoroviusmaybe, but I'd rather not bother anyone, at least not if I have an option07:21
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gregoroviusif anyone happens to find a decent price on an igo stowaway with worldwide shipping, please let me know =)07:50
gregoroviusin the meanwhile, thumb cramps it is07:50
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DekaritaePNY P-SDHC32G4-FS 32GB08:11
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Proteousdamn laggers, cluttering up the channel with clones08:24
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Proteousin  my day you would get k-lined for even saying the name clone08:25
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Proteousif they found out you were the same person connecting from two different IPs they would smurf you off the net08:27
Proteousnowdays kids can't even stay connected for two minutes08:28
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Grackleusbnet to NIT with ssh socks proxy is working quite well for me right now08:33
* Grackle has no wireless card but is using the NIT for wireless internet08:33
Proteoususbnet isn't wireless08:35
Proteousunless you some wireless usb hardware I guess08:36
Proteouss/you/you have/08:37
infobotProteous meant: unless you have some wireless usb hardware I guess08:37
GrackleProteous, it's not wireless in that my setup involves wires, but I am not connected to the actual router with wires.08:37
Proteousso it's like wireless but with a slight USB teather08:41
GrackleIt's like having a USB wireless adapter that has a cord instead of plugging directly into the port.08:42
GrackleAdapters like that are not uncommon.08:42
XTLAntenna that stands up on your desk08:45
Proteousalthough they probably don't call themselves "wireless"08:45
XTLBeats trying to get cables across doorways, halls and floors :)08:45
GrackleThey most certainly do, Proteous.08:46
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Proteoushmm I think I finaly get what you azre descibing08:46
GrackleThis is a stupid argument, anyway. It benefits me to be able to connect using a 3 foot USB cord instead of running an ethernet cable from the basement. End of story.08:46
Proteousno one is arguing08:47
GrackleOh, if it's just a misunderstanding.. *finds an image*08:47
Proteouswell, I guess you could be arguing with yourself08:47
ProteousI get it now, no worries08:48
Grackle like one of these08:48
XTLGrackle: That's a setup I've been thinkin about, too, btw.08:48
Gracklegotta reboot my computer, I'll be right back08:48
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Proteoususing a $400 device to replicate the funcionality of a $15 wireless usb dongle is sorta strange08:50
Proteousprobable fun to mess around with but not overly practical08:51
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Proteousalthough how many usb wireless dongles come with a built in battery backup08:52
XTLUsing something you already have = $0 in equipment08:52
Proteousif you don't mind giving up the original porpose of the device while you use it08:54
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* Grackle back08:56
* doc|home front08:56
* Grackle top08:56
Proteousjust need to turn the IT into a caching proxy,make use of the extra processing power and attached screen08:57
Proteousmaybe a firewall or something08:57
GrackleThat could be handy.08:58
XTLYou could talk do Darius Jack...08:58
Proteouspreform man in the middle attacks on yourself08:58
XTLWould be fun to make a man in the middle proxy that shows a slideshow of captured images from unencrypted http etc08:59
johnxXTL, actually reminds me of one of the xscreensavers :)09:01
XTLjohnx: Sort of like that09:01
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johnxexcept getting the pics with ethereal (or some other packet sniffer) instead of random web searches09:02
XTLAnd that access point that turns images upside down09:02
XTLOr goatses :)09:03
johnxturning images upside down wins lots more points for subtlety09:03
johnxa 5px blur filter would be nice as well09:03
XTLOr modulating the colours09:03 Web sepia tone09:04
johnxnot quite as much fun to prank oneself though09:04
XTLNo, you need some audience.09:05
XTL.. victims09:05
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Stskeepsmorning qwerty1209:55
qwerty12Hey Stskeeps09:55
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gatestone_Can anyone comment if, GSM pricing in USA is essentially more expensive than in Europe? I am thingking here like PDA usage, with reasonable amounts of data only10:24
Stskeepsi guess it's all about the data plan10:25
gatestone_So what are the cheapest ones? In Finland the going rate is less than 10 euro for month, for unlimited or large cap plans...10:25
GeneralAntillesI've got an "unlimited" non-tethering plan from AT&T that I tether to anyway for $20/mo10:26
GeneralAntillesCall it $40-$60 a month to tether within the letter of your ToS.10:27
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moontigerthat looks kind of interesting10:53
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moontigerbut my n810 + bluetooth fone = 1000000x better10:53
johnxthe hardware is what might be interesting :)10:55
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Stskeepsick @ at the ugly keyboard11:00
* qwerty12 bets that the device will be "locked"11:02
Stskeepsor running windows blowile11:02
* qwerty12 doesn't mind winmo, lots of hacking possibilities11:03
Stskeepsi went berserk after a week with .NET Compact Framework11:04
Stskeepswhich led to the worst meeting of my life where it was 2 hours of arguing11:05
qwerty12heh :/11:05
Stskeeps(which ended up with us switching to nokia tablets)11:05
Stskeeps(i won)11:05
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qwerty12Haha, nice:)11:05
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* qwerty12 can't decide over xmms2 or mpd :/11:06
JaffaMorning, all11:07
XTLqwerty12: I'll help you: Pick anything that's not winamp/xmms11:07
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qwerty12XTL: mpd it is :D11:08
XTLThey've caused enough terror and destruction :)11:08
qwerty12It's quite useful actually using Sonata on the desktop to change tracks on my N800 :)11:08
* Jaffa grumbles at Thoughtfix for
Stskeepsthere is a fair bit of sarcasm in that post though11:11
JaffaNot that I have a Nokia phone, but it's bad enough the links from planet can't be followed due to feedburner problems11:11
qwerty12"Ntropic Location: GPS assist, allowing N800 users to use their phone's GPS for map software" <-- You can already do that.11:11
Stskeepsi think there scaringily would be a market for that product though11:12
n800nif they give me the gps11:12
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lbtFYI planet appears to be up...11:30
Stskeepsmeh, they should port mpd to windows11:30
RST38hthe miracle11:31
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lbtmeh, they should rewrite windows to run mpd11:31
Stskeepsoh, it supports esound11:32
Stskeepsgood enough for me11:32
* Stskeeps scaringily has a esound daemon on his media center11:33
qwerty12Esd is the only thing that works for me on the tablet :/11:33
qwerty12I use libao on the tablet and libao is set to use esd11:33
qwerty12Although it works quite well when using alsa09 on libao.conf11:33
XTLThere is a windos esound?11:34
XTLI think I once wanted to go the other way..11:34
XTLCan't remember the details. Have som win app send audio over the net11:35
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moontigeris there a way to capture tap events on a textview area? and figure out what text is was tapped on?11:35
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RST38hesd is weird and evil11:37
StskeepsXTL: winamp has esd plugin too afaik11:37
RST38hnot documented too11:37
XTLRST38h: indeed11:38
XTLOf course it is from the E11:38
Stskeepsjohnx: LXDE is decent on tablet11:39
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RST38hXTL: Is the rest of the E similarly screwed and crufty?11:41
XTLRST38h: At least they seem to be huge and heavy11:42
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* RST38h screams at linsux people: Stop building endless audio servers, m@#$%ckers! Just provide a reliable audio device!11:44
XTLHeh, "slapt-get is an APT-like system for Slackware package management. Slapt-get tries to emulate the features of Debian's apt-get as closely as possible."11:44
Stskeeps"and bugs"?11:45
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rmrfchikdoes it moo?11:55
XTLIt better11:57
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rmrfchikeach apt-get must moo12:03
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lcuk_afkdoes anyone know the simplest way to work on and compile a program for 2 different targets at the same time.  i want to continue writing code for maemo but want it testable and usable on my x86 laptop as well - i dont want to have to checkin/out from each system and use a different editor etc12:16
logout128could anyone please point me to Maemo 2.x SDK? the link on seems to be broken12:17
lcuk_afklogout128, 2.x is rather old, is there a specific reason why you are using it12:17
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logout128lcuk: yes, i still have OS2006 on my N77012:18
qwerty12Has a 770 I guess.12:18
lcuki thought that yould update quite happily to os2007?  must be  wrong12:19
logout128qwerty12: precisely12:19
lcuklogout128, then i dunno12:19
logout128lcuk: os2007 requires swap on card most of the time, sometime freezes without particular reason and is horribly slow on N77012:20
lcukfair enough, i knew there were issues with running 2008 on a 770, from what i understood however 2007 has been recommended to lots of folks, i shall not mention it again :)12:21
GeneralAntillesWhich link?12:21
logout128that one12:22
lcuklink is positively wrong on the dev page12:23
logout128not cool at all12:24
GeneralAntillesThat link is right in the sidebar.12:24
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lcukbut the big fat link in the middle is wrong12:24
logout128well, has no sidebar on the front page. but it has SDK link, which is wrong12:24
GeneralAntillesMeh, fixed now.12:24
logout128thanks a lot12:25
logout128let's install it12:25
qwerty12Stskeeps: You're right, g_serial is brilliant. I'm gonna add an option for usb_serial in initfs12:25
lcuk"roll up, roll up, hot SDK action, step inside, come in.........OMG YOU CHEATS ITS A WINDOWS VISTA PRESENTATION!"12:25
qwerty12Stskeeps: What do you think about a g_file_storage mod in initfs that will export mtdblock4 over usb?12:30
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mikkov_anybody interested testing boswars from extras-devel? It can install data files (90MB) to mmc, so I would like to hear if it works12:59
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lbtso lcuk - how 'big' is liqbase? and if you ported it to SDL could you use it from a minimal (non-X) system.... like say initfs?13:04
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lbtwe wanted a gui bootmenu...13:04
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* qwerty12 was unaware you could use sdl outside x ;). Surely you mean framebuffer?13:05
lbtI thought SDL was framebuffer - my mistake13:06
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qwerty12Atm, I think it uses framebuffer but is linked to X11 libs13:06
* qwerty12 is not lcuk :P13:06
keesjsdl really only provides a "surface" to draw on and the surface can be the framebuffer13:07
qwerty12Ah, my bad, sorry.13:08
lbtyep - I think I associate SDL with framebuffer - and they are different13:08
keesjit currently uses the X11 backend it is therefore possible to create "windowed" apps13:09
yacoobqwerty12, sdl was designed as cross-platform media library, so it can use pretty much anything13:09
yacoobincluding aalib I think :)13:10
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qwerty12yacoob: Ah :). I always thought it was X11 after only ever seeing it in X11 apps :).13:11
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qwerty12Does anyone know a bit about how g_file_storage works?13:12
keesjqwerty12: I do play with it on daily basis. please ask :p13:14
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qwerty12keesj: thanks :D, hmm, does it find file systems to "export" over usb automatically or does it have to be specified on a command line?13:15
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qwerty12Ah, after reading, I get a better idea of how it works :)13:17
keesjqwerty12 it can be done two ways13:18
keesjduring modprobe you can give a number of block devices to export13:18
keesj(those can be real devices or simply files)13:18
keesjso you can export number of luns13:19
qwerty12Ah, I see, thanks!13:19
keesjwhen the module is already loaded you can use sysfs to change the backing store13:19
qwerty12Yep, great, thanks a lot, that's helped me quite a bit actually.13:20
keesj contains good documentation13:22
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eichiis there no way to enable bluetooth faster then going to the control center first?13:50
Stskeepsqwerty12: sounds interestig13:50
qwerty12Stskeeps: Yeah, I'm working on it now that I understand it better (thanks keesj)13:51
qwerty12eichi: Search for switchonbt13:51
qwerty12Fingers crossed that my mtdblock4 doesn't get corrupted :D13:51
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BinkyOk, my 770 finally turned on after 15 mins in the fridge and three reboots14:07
BinkyAt first, it didn't want to power on unless it was connected to the charger14:08
BinkyAfter that it showed white screens after each tap on the screen14:08
BinkyAnd it finally worked14:08
aquatixBinky: you took it swimming?14:08
BinkyThank you all for pointing me to the solution14:09
Binkyaquatix, i plugged it to the charger, i came to disconnect it 2 or 3 hours later14:09
BinkyIt was off and won't turn on14:10
BinkyUntil today ^^14:10
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qwerty12Stskeeps: I've got mtdblock4 exported over usb, now I'm trying to make my computer believe it's an mtd device...14:12
Stskeepsit shows up only as a block device or?14:12
Stskeeps(0 size file)14:12
qwerty12brw-rw---- 1 root disk 8, 80 2008-08-28 12:08 /dev/sdf14:13
qwerty12Yeah, sdf is the only thing I'm getting from dmesg14:13
qwerty12I unplugged and replugged the cable and the tablet switched off :/14:13
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qwerty12Stskeeps: Here is my "function" to load g_file_storage etc. . I'm unsure as to whether I should use mtd4 or mtdblock4 as I am using now14:15
Stskeepsqwerty12: i don't have much experience with g_file_storage sorry14:17
qwerty12No problems, I'll mess around and see what I get :)14:18
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lcuklbt, its not he size its the method (size is about 150kb or so) its the methodology - it expects YUV planes rather than RGB interleaved.  of course this is arbitary and could be retargetted at some other point - ive been asked about porting to none Xv systems in the past and thinnk it is possible just not something im aiming towards at this point14:23
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keesjI have seen a real n800 user in the whild14:32
keesja text writer14:33
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Stskeepsqwerty12: interesting use of g_serial could be Recovery Applications for *nix/windows14:39
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Stskeepsa toolset for fixing problems14:39
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qwerty12Stskeeps: Yeah, sounds interesting. I'm actually quite liking g_serial more than g_ether because g_ether fails to work for me in Ubuntu and Windows.14:40
Stskeepsg_ether is easy in ubuntu14:40
Stskeepsmodprobe usbnet; ifconfig usb0 inet
Stskeepsmodprobe usbnet; ifconfig usb0
Stskeepsi mean14:41
RST38hGentlemen, anybody experienced hangups from the updated version of Modest?14:41
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qwerty12Stskeeps: It was working for me once, but I think a kernel upgrade broke it :/14:41
RST38hWhere it gets stuck in memory, no longer checks for email and does not come up when you click on the Email icon?14:41
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qwerty12Stskeeps: Ok, found something odd, I'm modprobing mtdblock and block2mtd etc, /sys/module/block2mtd/parameters/block2mtd contains /dev/sde which is my N800 but as soon as I modprobe jffs2 on the computer, the device quits the mass storage mode from bootmenu and shuts off :/14:45
andrewfblackMorning guys qwerty12  I got your PM thanks14:46
qwerty12morning, sorry about that, my internet got disconnected >.<14:46
andrewfblackits cool happens all the time14:47
andrewfblackto me atleast14:47
andrewfblackanyone ever use prisim for the tablet I can't get it to type numbers in it14:48
crashanddieprisim ?14:50
andrewfblackcrashanddie its that app that gives a website a icon to load it from menu and runs inside its own window with no address bar(unless you want it)14:55
crashanddieah, mozilla prism ?14:55
crashanddieandrewfblack, do you have an n800 or n810 ?14:56
andrewfblackyeah sorry about the extra i lol14:56
crashanddieI don't know if it has been hildonised properly, are you using the hardware keyboard or software ?14:56
andrewfblackhardware I havn't checked the software one yet14:56
crashanddiehang on, there's someone in the house14:57
XTLthe mouse?14:57
Fatalthe spouse?14:58
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Garyerm, have they come out with a nice irc client for 4.2008.30.216:10
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GaryI seem to fail at finding a download for that16:13
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taplaxGary: search from
taplaxGary: xchat seems to be in maemo extras-devel16:18
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Garywoot, thanks taplax16:24
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JaffaAnyone who pushes packages to extras, keep an eye out for the "permission denied" and "lost connection" when using dput/scp. If spotted, please re-open #335416:28
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l33tthanks taplax :-)16:31
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taplaxthat is one of the best repository searching pages that i have found :)16:32
l33tI bet16:32
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l33teek default font size is for someone with better eyes than me,brb16:33
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rmrfchikerr. I can't install sdk on my amd64 box?17:01
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lardmanrmrfchik: doesn't like 64bit17:07
lardmanrmrfchik: you have to install it manually, or just edit the script to skip the check iirc17:07
rmrfchikbut amd64 sure supports i38617:07
Jaffarmrfchik/lardman: there's a better way17:09
Jaffahang on...17:09
lardmanrmrfchik: depends if your distro is 64bit or 32bit?17:09
rmrfchikit's debian amd6417:09
Jaffarmrfchik/lardman: instructions for deploying on x86_64:
lardmanJaffa: thanks (I went back to 32bit on my Core Due anyway as silly things like flash work better)17:10
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rmrfchikflash works find on my box ;)17:11
lardmanah well, thing have probably changed17:11
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rmrfchiksetarch not found17:13
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rmrfchikjust hacked the file17:15
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Jaffarmrfchik: you don't have ia32-libs or something installed, then17:16
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Jaffarmrfchik: if you don't need ia32-libs installed to get a working scratchbox, can you comment on #2043 please?17:17
rmrfchiki have ia32-libs. what is this "something" which contains setarch?17:17
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yacoobshouldn't be maemo version of claws called 'pincers'? :)17:25
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jottyacoob: how about "fingernail"? :>17:29
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qwerty12~lart menuconfig18:04
* infobot hurls dozens of incontinent, insomniac, hungry kittens with tiny little razor-sharp claws and a wide variety of contagious intestinal parasites at menuconfig18:04
crashanddie~fart qwerty1218:05
* infobot farts in qwerty12's general direction18:05
* qwerty12 stabs infobot18:05
crashanddienow you've opened the whole gas canister18:06
* qwerty12 would like to use g_serial for a shell in initfs but when it's missing getty, it kinda makes it impossible :/18:07
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crashanddielol @ #jobs18:10
crashanddieqwerty12, that was fast18:10
qwerty12Aww, I thought it was going to be a good channel18:11
crashanddieqwerty12, don't think you're going to impress anyone18:11
qwerty12qwerty12: I thought it was another job18:11
crashanddieqwerty12, plus I WAS FIRST !18:11
infobotqwerty12 meant: crashanddie: I thought it was another job18:11
crashanddietalking to yourself now, eh ?18:11
crashanddiecrashanddie, hey man18:11
crashanddiecrashanddie, hey, how you doing ?18:11
crashanddiecrashanddie, good, good, still looking for a job, all that18:11
crashanddiecrashanddie, ah, yeah, I know how you feel, don't worry, it'll be alright man18:12
* qwerty12 finds crashanddie's GP18:12
crashanddiecrashanddie, yeah... I hope so18:12
crashanddieqwerty12, my GP ?18:12
crashanddieqwerty12, my GP ?18:12
crashanddiecrashanddie, lol18:12
crashanddiecrashanddie, lol yourself18:12
qwerty12crashanddie: General practitioner18:12
crashanddieDon't have one18:13
qwerty12ah, fine, this is a case for the hospital :P18:13
qwerty12first sign of madness and all that...18:13
crashanddiecrashanddie, he talking 'bout us ?18:13
crashanddiecrashanddie, I reckon18:13
crashanddieqwerty12, can we ask you a question ?18:14
qwerty12crashanddie: depends on what it is18:14
crashanddieqwerty12, we won't ask it, then18:15
_berto_uh, Intel acquires OpenedHand18:15
crashanddieHUH ?18:15
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_berto_i've just read it18:16
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crashanddieWell... I guess I'm lucky they didn't hire me then18:17
crashanddiePlus, they have shitty company politics, no ethic whatsoever18:18
qwerty12glibc is a whore18:20
Grackle_Yeah I heard glibc links with just about everything18:21
qwerty12All I've compiled is getty (and this is the busybox version) statically and it's 480KB :D18:21
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qwerty12I'd use my uclibc toolchain but the binaries sometimes work with the initfs and sometimes don't :/18:22
qwerty12I've upx'ed it down and it's gone to 220KB which is still bigger than I'd like but mildly reasonable :)18:23
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* johnx returns from work...18:29
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mgedminmaemo mapper disappoints me18:35
mgedminlarge cpu usage, large memory usage, frequent freezes18:36
* mgedmin blames sqlite18:36
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hrwmgedmin: hi, I have one question to you18:36
hrwmgedmin: in Lithuania you have one road sign which I do not know... It is warning sign (triangle one) with black dot in center. What it means?18:37
johnxmgedmin, there's a patch to switch it from sql for map storage to stitched together jpgs18:37
mgedmindangerous stretch of road; many accidents here; something like that18:37
johnxmgedmin, if you're interested I'll find you a link18:38
hrwmgedmin: thx18:38
mgedminjohnx: not really; too much hassle and I somehow doubt it would convert my map caches for me18:39
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johnxthere's a tool to do it18:39
mgedminI'll just bitch here18:39
lardman|gonecu chaps on Sunday probably18:39
johnx'night lardman|gone18:39
johnxmgedmin, fair enough, but it works a lot better IMHO and there's a nice .deb for it18:39
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Khertan_n810Hello everyone !18:40
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johnxhey Khertan_n81018:40
Khertan_n810everybody !18:40
Khertan_n810there isn t many activity here18:44
* johnx shrugs18:45
johnxmaybe people are sleeping or something18:45
qwerty12Even better, busybox 1.00's static getty compiled against uclibc is 49KB compared to 1.61's which is 69KB compiled against the same18:45
johnxI know I should O_o18:45
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Khertan_n810johnx: sleeping at 17h45 :)18:45
qwerty12johnx: what's the time over there? :)18:46
qwerty12oh, I'm lazy18:46
qwerty12I'll google :)18:46
qwerty12wow :/18:46
johnxqwerty12, I live in the future :)18:46
qwerty12hehe :)18:47
johnxI can tell you about the future: The trains are crowded and the gas prices are high :P18:48
* Khertan_n810 ll have a furious enjoy if he can slap some google developpers ! 18:49
qwerty12Lol, gas prices are the same in the past in that case :P18:49
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johnxKhertan_n810, more fun dealing with their API?18:51
johnxwow...why is gas so expensive in the UK?18:52
qwerty12johnx: everything driving related is :/18:53
Khertan_n810look in france18:53
Khertan_n810with 80% tax18:53
johnxaaah, taxes I guess18:54
johnxqwerty12, car insurance is pretty crazy here (from what I hear)18:54
Khertan_n8101,52 Euro/L18:54
johnxgah...the fun of multiple currency/unit conversions...18:54
qwerty12johnx: heh, but here, you get charged on a lot of stuff :/. toll roads, car tax, they want the congestion charging zone extended etc18:55
johnxqwerty12, same here. There's huge tolls to actually get anywhere at all18:55
johnxalmost makes it cheaper to use the train a lot of the time...18:56
Khertan_n810johnx: yep ... their api suck !18:56
Khertan_n810many 104 error : reset by peer18:56
Khertan_n810reinit the connection ...18:56
johnxKhertan_n810, weak sauce :/18:56
Khertan_n810and try to get the next event18:57
Khertan_n810and the result is that an endless call18:57
Khertan_n810s/that/that i get18:57
Khertan_n810and noway to detect it18:57
qwerty12arrgh, I can't get getty to start in the initfs >.<. I'm going to have to boot maemo and check the logs :/18:58
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Khertan_n810and calling only one event is really really slow18:59
* johnx tries to figure out how hildon menus get popped up when matchbox window titles get clicked18:59
Khertan_n810s/callling/calling details on19:00
qwerty12johnx: look in the hildon-desktop source, there will be similar code there too for the desktop "home" menu19:01
johnxI just had a funny thought though...19:01
qwerty12Well, I just killed matchbox and the menu for the desktop still worked :)19:02
Khertan_n810huhu just see the joomla hole19:02
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Khertan_n810very nice sql injection19:02
Khertan_n810just with a quote19:03
aquatixKhertan_n810: where? what?19:03
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johnxmy goal is to replace matchbox with another wm...but I still want to be able to get windows to open their menu with a title-bar click...19:04
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johnxheh...the nice, easy hacky way might just be to send "F4" to the app19:19
mgedminwhat's the jabber resource priority that telepathy uses?19:19
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mgedminI'm connected to a jabber server on my laptop and on my n810, and incoming messages appear on the n810 instead of the laptop19:20
mgedmintyping answers works better on a laptop19:20
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||cwmgedmin: that should be configurable19:23
||cwdefault is probably 019:24
mgedminI can configure the priority in gajim19:24
mgedminare larger numbers better?19:24
||cwno, less19:24
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||cwbeen a while since i messed with jabber in that way19:24
* qwerty12 reboots to try g_serial in windows19:31
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jottjohnx: you need implement the XClientMessageEvent atom _MB_GRAB_TRANSFER19:33
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johnxjott, awesome! hopefully I'll just be able to yank it from matchbox19:34
jottjohnx: and look for  _NET_WM_CONTEXT_CUSTOM19:34
johnxthanks :D19:35
jott(as a wmprotocol atom that can be registered)19:35
jottjohnx: which wm do you plan to modify?19:37
johnxI don't really know yet19:37
johnxI'm looking at tabbed window managers19:37
johnxI'd like to keep the applications as is, but I'm not really sold on the hildon-desktop19:39
johnxand xfce, lxde, gnome, kde, etc are really wasteful of screen real estate19:40
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jottsomething like ion or dwm?19:40
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johnxjott, that's the idea19:40
johnxat this point I'm not really commited to anything19:41
jottjohnx: i think dwm/wmii are pretty easy hackable.19:41
jottand do not have much dependencies :)19:41
johnxI think I'll do a quick mockup of what I'm thinking19:42
jottjohnx: ah right dwm was the one i had in mind of hackability - one c file with ~1800 lines :)19:45
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johnxjott, cool. I'm looking at screenshots now. it might be what I want (or at least a good thing to test with)19:46
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles, what are the odds of Nokia going with an Atom-based system for the Nokia n9xx series ?20:17
johnxabout the same as them putting in atom in their next phone20:18
jottthey also contribute omap3 code to the omap linux branch...20:19
crashanddieso you three guys are in fact GA clones? I KNEW IT !20:19
lcuk:D Lol20:19
crashanddieanyway, thanks for confirming my thoughts20:20
johnxcrashanddie, nope. I'm just allowed to speak for him in this case20:20
glassatom would make it pretty expensive, no?20:20
lcukit was just a thought20:20
jottglass: more pretty big and power hungry :)20:20
qwerty12_N800it's a clever trick, they contribute code to linux omap but are really going to release atom with vista for next tablet20:20
johnxglass, and hot, and short of battery life, and bigger20:20
glassjott: well that too, but bigger battery=more expensive and so on20:20
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lcukhave you seen the size of the n okia resaerch labs?  it was just a thought: with all the atom mids being announced is it unreasonable to suggest nokia might actually be looking at them themselves20:21
jottwell they most likely have some things in their research labs.20:22
johnxlcuk, yeah, I'd be willing to say so actually20:23
glassmysterious big underground caverns20:23
glasswell no really20:23
glassmy last apartment i could see 3 huge nokia signs from20:23
crashanddieThe Dark Knight was partially filmed in the Nokia R&D HQ20:23
lcuk:O batmans alter-ego is quim gil!20:23
andrewfblackok I got a question for you guys I spend most of my day online but I use 3 to 4 computer throughout the day including work ones but not including my tablet.  I hate not having all my files and bookmarks and suck all with me is there an easy to to sync everything between my computer I've used several things but never found anything I like20:24
johnxlcuk, There's way too much going for the omap I think, from Nokia's point of view for them to consider something else for a niche, parts bin product line20:24
jottand they showcased omap 3 in dark knight, though i am sure they need to clear some things with FCC :D20:24
crashanddieQuim in Hungarian means sonar, and Gil in Swahili means predator20:25
lcukjohnx, as i say, it was just a thought :) sparking discussion20:25
lcukcrashanddie, omg he IS the dark knight20:26
johnxlcuk, no offence meant or anything, but I've been involved in this discussion a couple million times on ITT20:26
jottlcuk just wants a windows vista based tablet :D20:26
* lcuk makes a mental note to call him Bruce20:26
johnxI wrote a short novel on the subject if you're interested :)20:26
lcukjott, ewwwww no way would i dev for microsoft not20:26
lcuklol john20:26
lcuknot now that liqbase works on my laptop20:26
lcukwell sortof kindof works20:27
crashanddiecloudreader is starting to work pretty decently on my laptop20:27
crashanddieeven though having it in 1280x800 makes it hard to have enough tags to find anything to scroll :P20:27
jottjust increase the font size :)20:28
lcukcrashanddie, i needed a second networkable machine to test collaborative whiteboarding and since i dont have another n8x0 yet i had to do something20:28
crashanddielcuk, understandably20:28
lcukjott, on mine i have to decrease the font size - it is currently visible from orbit (TM) :)20:28
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jottlcuk: you could test it from your work place ;)20:29
crashanddielcuk, did you ever encounter a problem when switching to dbus startup ? I have random crashes, not reproducible from the console20:29
lcuk:D heh i can20:29
jott(i gathered you can see your screen at home more or less from there :)20:29
lcukdbus startup?20:29
crashanddielcuk, via the menu20:30
crashanddiejott, VNC has that effect20:30
lcukwhat do you mean20:30
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crashanddielcuk, adding a shortcut in the maemo menu20:30
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jottcrashanddie: nah, vnc is pathetic :/20:30
lcukno, i have a script which is called by the menu item20:30
lcukthat calls sudo liqbase :)20:30
lcukfrom the right folder20:30
qwerty12_N800crashanddie: 15 seconds crashes with dbus usually means it's not initalized right20:31
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crashanddieqwerty12_N800, ah ?20:31
crashanddieqwerty12_N800, I'm going to have to eat your brain though, one of these days, you know too much20:31
crashanddieqwerty12_N800, linky link ?20:31
lcukqwerty12_N800, IS the IBM linux kid20:31
lcukactually, no he isnt - the kid from linuxtag bowels is20:31
lcukjott, do you remember seeing him around20:32
qwerty12_N800crashanddie: are the service names correct, are you calling osso_initalize etc ( i think), i'm not hot on dbus myself20:32
crashanddietranslation for northerners: "the ki' fro' lynuxteeg bols is"20:32
jottlcuk hmm there where some kids playing with lego :P20:32
qwerty12_N800crashanddie: lol20:32
lcuklego robots and stuff yer20:32
crashanddieqwerty12_N800, none of those20:32
crashanddieqwerty12_N800, well, service names are correct, obviously, but osso_initialise can go fuck itself :P20:33
crashanddieI'll look into it, thanks for the hint Q20:33
qwerty12_N800crashanddie: heh, let me search that reference pdf20:33
crashanddieqwerty12 IS Q20:33
qwerty12_N800yep, my favourite weapon is a British qwerty keyboard20:34
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lcukany idea how i use the same code to build for x86 and maemo at the same time?20:37
* qwerty12_N800 searches for my 1/2 assed rott port, that uses dbus w/out osso_initalize thanks to solmumaha20:37
johnxlcuk, that's the problem scratchbox was invented to solve20:37
johnxI bet you didn't want to hear that...20:37
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lcukno johnx - i want 2 binaries out of the same source so i can run on both20:39
lcuki think i need to sync however - the .o files and binaries will conflict20:39
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jottlcuk: just build out of source then...20:39
johnxlcuk, right, you need to do the equiv of "make clean" first20:39
johnxrm *.o *.so liqbase-bin20:40
lcukjohnx, ill just decide on a primary source editing location, then to build sync it to the x86 and run build on both machines20:40
lcuk on the maemo side it takes too long to run that each time ;)20:40
johnxlcuk, fair enough, but in scratchbox you don't need to move the source around, just build once, switch targets, and build again20:41
jottlcuk: you could also use symlinks/hard and or mount your remote directory ..20:41
lcukjott, yes i have sshfs or whatever it is called available20:41
* lcuk is still pleased as punch it works on both sides20:42
jottlcuk: as always your problem has a vast amount of solutions :)20:43
lcukim gettin used to that now, and its not a bad thing20:43
lcukahhh jott, one more question - alpha blending, currently i am blending the entire image - do you normally expect to use it with a full alpha channel (ie from a png)20:44
lcukor for now is arbitary blend0..255 option enough20:44
jottwell normally you have an alpha channel.20:45
lcukso i need a create alpha from image (for jpegs etc) and give it a mask color20:45
lcukobviously pngs have a full channel20:46
* lcuk wonders how to do alpha channels with 2 different sized images20:46
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jott oh it's intel now.20:48
lcukhence the question earlier..20:48
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jottlcuk: well i expect an image to have an alpha channel, the blending operation has a constant value.20:50
jotti wonder how nokia thinks about the aquistion...20:50
lcukyes, its a combine of the pixelperhaps certain staff members wishift back under the nokia umbrella, or nokia themselves dont care20:51
lcukshit - wasnt finished answerin the blend q20:51
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jotthaha answer mesh up :D20:51
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johnxgrrr...fluxbox really doesn't behave well with only one "mouse button"20:52
lcukyes, its a combine of the specified blend with the actual pixel blend attempting to be blitted20:53
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crashanddiejohnx, well, it was designed as a two buttoned environment20:58
johnxyeah, I know. but some things "degrade" more gracefully from 2 or 3 buttons to 120:59
johnxwithout two buttons theres no way to close desktop menus for example...20:59
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XTLOr play Sam & Max20:59
* johnx auditions more WMs21:00
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lcukok jott, ive transformed the algo to include a "fake" alpha channel (just the regular data channel) and it appears to work still, ill thread that in the code and when i have an alpha channel available i will make use of it - otherwise i will use the standard simple blend21:07
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie, less than zero21:21
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GeneralAntillesRogerS with yet another lackluster overly dramatic blog post.21:46
johnxbut hey, on the other hand, the thread on UI discussions is terrifyingly civil21:46
johnxlike people got tired of constantly flaming21:47
GeneralAntillesI don't get the stylus-only approach.21:47
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johnxit's the people who started on Palms21:48
johnxor winMo devices or whatever21:48
lbtor who value the precision...21:48
lbtBTW, johnx, you mentioned a maemo-mapper db patch earlier21:49
johnxbut that's more like the stylus-sometimes, thumbs for quick tasks group21:49
johnxprecision when you need it, etc21:49
lbtoh, OK, yes, mixed stylus and occasional fingers21:49
lbtI need to make my shopper more finger friendly :)21:49
lbt(finger scrolling in gtk would be a nice start!)21:50
johnxsure, it seems to work rather well, but it's not updated to track the very latest maemo mapper releases21:51
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johnxit's only up to 2.3 IIRC21:51
lbtThis project is to develop a collection of **Windows** PC software21:51
lbtis it?21:52
lbtjust windows stuff I mean?21:52
johnxdon't pay attention to that part :)21:52
johnxnah, it's some windows tools and the modified maemo mapper binaries21:52
johnx(and a patch I think)21:52
qwerty12_N800johnx: that would be good combined with shuma's patch to draw maps faster or something like that21:52
lbtyes, OK, it takes some reading... :)21:53
johnxqwerty12_N800, I didn't even know about that21:53
johnxlbt, yeah, it looks like it's updated kind of randomly, a bit at a time21:53
qwerty12_N800johnx: yeah, he made a mod of mm that can overlay google traffic amd i'm pretty sure he speeded up drawing... let me bring it up21:54
johnxqwerty12_N800, ah, I saw that part21:54
johnxyeah, that would be neat, but without a GPS I don't use maemo mapper all that much :/21:55
* qwerty12_N800 should merge these 2 forks together21:55
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lbtjohnx: I got a cheapo BT GPS logger as suggested by GA - kinda interesting...21:56
johnxyeah, I need to get one soon21:56
derfCheapo BT GPS = <321:57
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johnxa *good* bt gps and a persistent data connection are on my "really want list"21:57
GeneralAntillesI started on a Newton21:57
GeneralAntillesand I still don't understand. :P21:57
johnxGeneralAntilles, you obviously don't have problems coping with change21:57
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lcukno, he still uses his newton21:58
johnxGeneralAntilles, right, that's the point I was getting at...21:58
GeneralAntillesjohnx, there's hardly a difference between a cheap GPS and a good GPS these days.21:58
johnxyeah, I guess I should just find someplace that ships internationally and pull the trigger then...21:58
jottGeneralAntilles: tell that the nokia engineers :P21:59
tank-mani got that gps unit, quick to lock on21:59
GeneralAntillesWell, OK, s/GPS/Bluetooth GPS/21:59
lcuktheres nothing wrong with the chip, its the antenna thats the problem21:59
GeneralAntillesThe chip sucks too21:59
johnxlcuk, no, there's something wrong with the chip :)21:59
GeneralAntillesIt's an AGPS dependent piece of junk. :P21:59
tank-manerr, not that unit. my bad21:59
lcukwinmodem :D21:59
lbtyes, and it logs data, and there is unix support21:59
johnxand it's the bottom of the barrel in that category too22:00
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johnxlbt, I'll probably just get a normal BT GPS...I don't think I have much use for data logging22:00
lbtalmost the same price - and it means you get GPS data without needing the tablet.22:00
johnxthe tablets always on me though22:01
danielvazanybody know how to implement inertial effect on scrooling a graphic at a gtk.DrawingArea?22:01
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lbtnot when I'm skiing22:01
johnxI can't carry my tablet when you ski?22:01
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lbtand I want to save what routes I've done... 'cos I never read the trail maps...22:01
moontigerlbt, hey :)22:02
lbthi moontiger22:02
johnxwhatever I can get shipped for the cheapest will likely determine what I buy...22:02
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moontigerlbt, do u have an email i can send you some thoughts on the shopper app?22:02
lbtthere  you go22:03
GeneralAntillesjohnx, just make sure it's MTK22:03
lbtI'm adding the help and then I think I'll push it to extras as a first public release (barring any bugs/tweaks of course)22:04
johnxso MTK is what the cool kids have now?22:04
tank-manyea that chipset is good22:04
lbtI did a fair amount of research and the i-Blue range came up a lot as a good buy22:04
lbtI think they use the mtk chipset... yes22:05
tank-manyou can leave it in the glove compartment in a car and still lock on22:06
lbtand it works with heated front screens too :)22:06
lbtin case you need that ;)22:07
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johnxis there only one "mtk" chipset? or all they all equally good?22:09
GeneralAntillesMTK and MTK+22:09
GeneralAntillesThere's not a huge difference, though.22:09
johnxguh, $30 shipping on a $43 gps...22:10
GeneralAntillesI'd just get the regular old i-Blue 737 and be done with it.22:10
GeneralAntillesCan't buy locally?22:10
johnxI really haven't seen many (any?) locally22:10
johnxit's all complete GPS/mobile tv receivers22:10
johnxplus, everyone's cell phone has gps and everyone's car, too22:11
lcukdanielvaz, kinetic scrolling is essentially holding the latest mouse delta then for every frame whilst you still have a delta you adjust the offset (and decrease the delta by a fraction)22:11
lcuk(fraction is based on time since last position update22:12
danielvazthanks lcuk :)22:12
moontigeri use a sirf3 based navibe and it rocks22:14
lcukdelta=(lastmouse.y-mouse.y);  pos+=delta;  render();                       then once per frame:    if(delta) { pos+=delta--;  render(); }22:14
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GeneralAntillesMTK is cheaper, more efficient and more agile than SiRF III22:15
johnxI've been out of the GPS game for so long I don't even know the features. this ebay ad talks about "sensibility" and 'every low electricity cost' in addition to a 'humanized design'22:16
GeneralAntillesClearly you should buy that one ASAP. :P22:17 also has free shipping...22:18
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lcuklbt, this made me think of you
lbtcool - a logo :)22:19
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moontigeri heard that MTK isnt as good for walking and other slow speeds22:39
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GeneralAntillesEh, I don't have any trouble there22:41
GeneralAntillesand I do a lot of slow tracking22:41
GeneralAntillesEither way, the power consumption is SIGNIFICANTLY better than SiRF III22:41
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johnxI'll grab an i-blue 737 as soon as I can find one with *reasonable* shipping costs22:43
johnx<mumbles>there has to be one locally...22:43
moontigerhmmmmm ok ... mine works great for me so i guess in practical terms its all the same22:44
moontigerjohnx, the 737 is for the track history stuff yes?22:44
johnxer, I think that was the 74722:44
lbtyep, 747 has a logger22:44
johnxif I need to keep a track, I'll just pair it to the tablet22:44
moontigeri was going to say also that the logger stuff was apparently crap anyways :)22:49
lbtit's not :)22:50
lbtit works really well actually - I can download it to Viking22:50
GeneralAntillesWhy crap?22:51
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GeneralAntillesIt just stores a track to its internal memory that you can dump to a computer.22:51
GeneralAntillesSimple, sure, but what more would you want?22:51
lbtoh, and you can press the button on the device to basically say 'mark'22:52
johnxthanks for all the advice guys. I'm off to bed22:53
Stskeepsnini johnx22:56
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* Stskeeps stretches23:08
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moontigeri read a big review of it and apparently the data gets lost easily and has a windows app to actually get the data from the device23:36
moontigermaybe they improved it in the last year23:37
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moontigeri did a bunch of research before buying the one i have and since it "just works" (tm) i didnt keep up with newer stuff23:39
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AnunakinNSP2 compiled for Maemo 4.1, not hildonized ....23:44
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jottAnunakin: what's NSP2?23:45
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Anunakinjott: A matlab like software
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Anunakinjott: but it not using same syntax...23:53
AnunakinNSP2 is the new name of scilabGTK23:54
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lbtmoontiger: the reason I bought the iBlue 747 is the availability of opensource linux connectivity/drivers :

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