| lbt | just so I can have an ldap based address book that I can then sync to various devices, laptops, desktops, pdas, phones, car stereos, pictureframes, hifis.... | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| lbt | anything that runs linux | 00:00 |
| moontiger | but but but ... microsoft has those doesnt it? :rollseyes: | 00:00 |
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| lbt | really, let me see... | 00:01 |
| moontiger | that sounds like a really cool project actually | 00:01 |
| moontiger | a networked address book | 00:01 |
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| lbt | with cache so it works offline | 00:07 |
| lbt | slapd on the nit? | 00:07 |
| lbt | hmmm | 00:07 |
| lbt | replicated slapd - yep | 00:07 |
| lbt | I've managed to get Xen up so I have a load of virtual machines | 00:07 |
| lbt | each with a different groupware server | 00:08 |
| lbt | egroupware, citadel, kolab | 00:08 |
| lbt | egroupware is kinda nice but a bit abandonded | 00:08 |
| lbt | kolab is a bit 'different' | 00:08 |
| lbt | they use openpkg | 00:08 |
| lbt | but it looks like kde support it | 00:09 |
| lbt | and since we're getting Qt4 | 00:09 |
| lbt | then I'm thinking kaddressbook | 00:09 |
| lbt | and kde-pim | 00:09 |
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| lbt | oh, how did shopper work out? | 00:10 |
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| moontiger | im teaching yesterday and today ... when i finish i can have a proper play around and get back to you ... tomorrow prolly | 00:13 |
| moontiger | it installed and seemed to run fine | 00:13 |
| moontiger | :) | 00:13 |
| lbt | that's a start... :) | 00:14 |
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| ryoohki | is the wimax edition out yet anywhere? | 00:19 |
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| Alystair | Hi all, quick question about developing on the Nokia 770 | 00:21 |
| Alystair | what are my options realistically, what kinds of languages can be used? | 00:22 |
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| Alystair | Eg. standard web apps, flash, flash applications, normal executables | 00:22 |
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| MangoFusion | you could make a web app. though beware as mobile browsers tend to be much slower than their desktop counterparts | 00:24 |
| Alystair | what language are normal applications for the device made in normally? | 00:25 |
| Alystair | I'd like to make a POS system for restaurants since the 770 is really cheap these days | 00:25 |
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| pvandewyngaerde | can i put the browser fullscreen? | 00:27 |
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| moontiger | Alystair, python is good and quick and pretty easy | 00:28 |
| jott | Alystair: c/c++/python | 00:28 |
| moontiger | or of course c / c++ | 00:28 |
| jott | pvandewyngaerde: press the fullscreen button?! :) | 00:28 |
| moontiger | either way you will use either gtk or (very recently) qt | 00:29 |
| Alystair | bah more languages for me to learn :) | 00:29 |
| moontiger | python is fun | 00:29 |
| moontiger | c / c++ is... sublime | 00:29 |
| Alystair | it's what real coders use ;) | 00:29 |
| pvandewyngaerde | found it, disable the bar in fullscreen | 00:29 |
| moontiger | naaaaaaaaa real coders use the wind ripples of a butterfly wing in japan to alter the bits on a magnetic.... | 00:30 |
| ryoohki | any news on when the wimax edition will be out? | 00:30 |
| Alystair | moontiger: oh yeah there's an extension for emacs for that ; | 00:30 |
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| Alystair | you're not the only one whom enjoys that comic :) | 00:31 |
| jott | hehe the whole life seems to be an xkcd refernce sometimes :P | 00:31 |
| moontiger | http://xkcd.com/378/ | 00:31 |
| moontiger | love that | 00:31 |
| moontiger | :) | 00:31 |
| moontiger | hahaha | 00:31 |
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| hellwolf | I want to use flasher to load my home-brew kernel but without flash it, for debugging purpose, is it like this:" ./flasher-3.0 -l -k kernel.img -b" | 00:33 |
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| jott | hellwolf: yes. looks ok. | 00:35 |
| hellwolf | jott, what if I want to use non-linux kernel. How should I create that kind of kernel. | 00:35 |
| moontiger | jott... if i put another os on my n810 (like the xfce stuff available) can i put that on mt mmc1 (external) card? | 00:36 |
| moontiger | mt = my | 00:36 |
| hellwolf | For example, I want a small program only glitter the LED | 00:36 |
| jott | moontiger: yes, you can put it on an external card. | 00:37 |
| moontiger | nice :) | 00:37 |
| jott | hellwolf: why do you want to use a non-linux kernel for this? | 00:37 |
| hellwolf | jott, huh.. I want something cool :| | 00:38 |
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| yacoob | deep freeze your tablet? :) | 00:39 |
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| hellwolf | just for fun | 00:40 |
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| Alystair | hrm is the 800 worth an extra $80 over the 770? | 00:41 |
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| jott | Alystair: yes. | 00:41 |
| mgedmin | Alystair: absoliutely | 00:41 |
| LinuxCode | yes def | 00:41 |
| LinuxCode | os2008 wont even run on the 770 or ? | 00:41 |
| jott | otoh a 770 is more robust i would say. | 00:42 |
| LinuxCode | robust how ? | 00:42 |
| jott | (if you use it for resturants it might drop on the ground from time to time) | 00:42 |
| LinuxCode | ahh plastic case | 00:42 |
| LinuxCode | dont they make neoprene sleeves yet ? | 00:42 |
| LinuxCode | I bet some chinese guy came up with that | 00:43 |
| Alystair | ah yeah I meant for personal use though :) | 00:43 |
| Alystair | I would only consider the 770 in the restaurant | 00:43 |
| jott | Alystair: then n800 no question. | 00:43 |
| Alystair | alright | 00:43 |
| krutt | is the 810 ok for 250 euro? | 00:43 |
| LinuxCode | sounds like a good price | 00:44 |
| LinuxCode | if its brand new | 00:44 |
| krutt | yes it is | 00:45 |
| jott | krutt: 250 for a new is very good. | 00:45 |
| krutt | sweer | 00:45 |
| LinuxCode | chpeast Uk price I can find atm is £235 | 00:45 |
| krutt | *t | 00:45 |
| jott | it costs 350eur at nokia.de and amazon.de | 00:46 |
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| krutt | hr | 00:46 |
| krutt | its mine | 00:46 |
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| Alystair | robbery! | 00:46 |
| krutt | no :P | 00:46 |
| krutt | connection :P | 00:46 |
| jott | fell off the back of a lorry, eh? :) | 00:47 |
| krutt | lol, erm.. something like that | 00:48 |
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| krutt | my sister bought it, dont know the price, i told her, "that is not a phone" | 00:51 |
| krutt | thats all ;) | 00:51 |
| krutt | so i payed 250 for it | 00:51 |
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| jott | ah the good old "trick one with a nokia label" trick :P | 00:52 |
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| patoh | krutt: everywhere I have seen it advertised it says 'not a phone' :P | 00:52 |
| krutt | ;) | 00:52 |
| Binky | Hi everybody | 00:52 |
| patoh | yet every day someone asks me what model my phone is :( | 00:52 |
| andre___ | "nokia? they produce not only phones?" :-P | 00:52 |
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| andre___ | i hear that all the time :) | 00:52 |
| patoh | andre___: hey, they also produce overpriced accessories! | 00:53 |
| krutt | funny things that make some of us happy ;) | 00:53 |
| krutt | <--! | 00:53 |
| andre___ | right, i need that cute pink bag to protect my n810 ;-) | 00:54 |
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| krutt | mh, when does the 910 appear? | 00:54 |
| Binky | somewhere in future | 00:54 |
| * Binky feels esoteric | 00:55 | |
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| krutt | but its planed? | 00:55 |
| lbt | and chamfered | 00:55 |
| Binky | I don't know. Maybe it's released with Freemantle and Qt support | 00:55 |
| krutt | i thoght nokia comes out with 5 of those tablets | 00:55 |
| Binky | 5 goals do not mean 5 tablets | 00:56 |
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| Binky | and we don't know if the N810 WiMax is one of them | 00:56 |
| krutt | mh, wimax? never heared of | 00:56 |
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| Binky | krutt, seriously? | 00:57 |
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| Binky | Nokia N810 Internet Tablet WiMax Edition | 00:58 |
| Binky | N810 WiMax for friends | 00:58 |
| Alystair | N810 WiMax Useless Edition ;) | 00:58 |
| Binky | Amen. | 00:59 |
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| sxpert | Binky, still wondering wtf they did that useless wimax thing | 01:00 |
| lbt | OK, I take it back - Kolab was fairly easy to setup | 01:01 |
| krutt | Binky: yes, but now i do ;) | 01:02 |
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| krutt | but the black design is nice | 01:02 |
| sxpert | I'd rather have had a 802.11 a/b/g/n device | 01:02 |
| sxpert | and a better GPS | 01:03 |
| krutt | yea, but its black! | 01:03 |
| krutt | black, wow wow | 01:03 |
| krutt | its an evil black tablet wow | 01:04 |
| wiza | in diablo the gps is actually good | 01:04 |
| sxpert | wiza, hmm? | 01:04 |
| wiza | I get a lock in few seconds and it never even had problems with keeping the lock | 01:04 |
| krutt | szrem u read about this upgrade | 01:05 |
| wiza | a-gps stuff | 01:05 |
| sxpert | ah. guess I'd need to upgrade or something | 01:05 |
| krutt | *i | 01:05 |
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| mavhc | still takes minutes here, sometimes 10 or so | 01:07 |
| sxpert | hmm. of course, I'd have to find where the ** I put the bloody USB cable at | 01:08 |
| sxpert | gah, I whish there was a way to flash from the sd card or somethign | 01:10 |
| sxpert | and wiki ist kaputt | 01:11 |
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| andre___ | sxpert, wiki works here | 01:22 |
| andre___ | https://wiki.maemo.org/Upgrading_tablet_OS | 01:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hurricane hit worse where I wasn't than where I was. . . . | 01:23 |
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| sxpert | hah. upgrade done. reinstalling apps ;) | 02:01 |
| m-c- | Any idea why typing with a bluetooth keyboard within Gmail causes text entry to be really really slow? | 02:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | gmail webmail? | 02:08 |
| m-c- | Yes, thanks | 02:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Dunno, probably some js stuff | 02:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Try it with the HTML-only versionZ | 02:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | ? | 02:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | It lags on my old G4 tower, too, fwiw. | 02:09 |
| m-c- | The web interface where you type the message. It takes only 1 character a second | 02:09 |
| m-c- | I will try it, G.A. | 02:09 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Alternative option, have you tried Modest? | 02:09 |
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| m-c- | Yes, that fixes it. Thanks! | 02:12 |
| NeoStrider_ | hello there | 02:12 |
| m-c- | Hi | 02:12 |
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| NeoStrider_ | m-c-: whats going on? | 02:15 |
| rm_you | anyone know if Pandora is workable? | 02:18 |
| rm_you | Pandora the music service, not Pandora the dev platform :P | 02:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 02:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not on the tablets, I don't think | 02:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | I dunno, though | 02:18 |
| rm_you | :( | 02:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Actually, it may be. | 02:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Try it. | 02:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | last.fm is cooler though | 02:18 |
| rm_you | friend says it is like | 02:19 |
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| rm_you | slow | 02:19 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Vagalume | 02:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Canola | 02:19 |
| rm_you | hrm | 02:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | rm_you, I'm poking you about the 770 bug again. | 02:22 |
| rm_you | ? | 02:22 |
| rm_you | oh | 02:22 |
| rm_you | the rotate> | 02:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's enabled all the time. | 02:22 |
| rm_you | hrm | 02:22 |
| rm_you | let me check the code now | 02:22 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Which causes trouble, as I don't think there's up-to-date rotation support for the 770. ;) | 02:22 |
| rm_you | truth | 02:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | I would probably just disable it on the 770 no matter what | 02:23 |
| rm_you | sad i never found time to finish putting together the "rotation-support" package | 02:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Also, can you add a manual override to turn the rotation selector off if support is installed? | 02:23 |
| rm_you | in options, sure | 02:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | If Nokia decides to ship an enabled kernel and xserver, then some people may want to disable it. | 02:23 |
| rm_you | chances of them doing that? | 02:24 |
| rm_you | >_> | 02:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Eh, who knows. | 02:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | They do ship xrandr | 02:24 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The direction they're moving, higher than, say, a year ago. ;) | 02:24 |
| jott | i would say pretty low. no real benefit on their side :/ | 02:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | But no telling, really. | 02:24 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Poke David Stone at the Summit about it. ;) | 02:25 |
| m-c- | How do you think the NIT 333 MHz ARM processor compares to a 300 MHz x86 processor from 10 years ago? | 02:25 |
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| rm_you | wait, does 770 SHIP with xrandr enabled kernel/xserver?! | 02:26 |
| rm_you | like, not really functional, but ENABLED? | 02:26 |
| m-c- | I just installed Damn Small Linux on a 300 MHz system and I have been really surprised how much better the performance, of the NIT, is compared to that old computer. | 02:28 |
| GAN800 | It doesn't | 02:30 |
| GAN800 | rotation doesn't work | 02:30 |
| sin18 | does anyone know when lib4xpm will be ready for diablo (need that package for virtual keyboard - dosbox) on n800 ? | 02:30 |
| jott | http://syslog.movial.fi/archives/7-xrandr-on-nokia-770.html | 02:30 |
| jott | hmm | 02:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | m-c-, the tablets run at 400MHz | 02:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Woo OS2005 | 02:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | (OS2005 was teh suck) | 02:32 |
| jott | sound like it could work if we just mode=OMAPFB_AUTO_UPDATE; ioctl(fb, OMAPFB_SET_UPDATE_MODE, &mode); | 02:32 |
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| jott | or what happens when rotating? :) | 02:33 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Now? | 02:33 |
| jott | yes | 02:33 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Not much good | 02:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | You can rotate | 02:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | but you can't get back | 02:33 |
| jott | why? | 02:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Screen is mostly garbage | 02:33 |
| m-c- | GeneralAntilles: I was also thinking the hard drive from 10 years ago is a lot slower than the Media the NIT uses | 02:33 |
| jott | i mean, could it work with automatic update enabled? | 02:33 |
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| m-c- | I have noticed audio streams - like listening to a radio station online -will take a couple minutes to start playing. | 02:36 |
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| m-c- | Anyhow, playing around with a desktop computer running a processor in the <500MHz speed really makes me appreciate what the NIT is capable of doing, especially since it is 1/100th the size of the desktop. | 02:39 |
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| * GeneralAntilles begins checking the UPS tracking once an hour for the Beagle. | 02:43 | |
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| jott | GeneralAntilles: could you try this on a 770? http://outpo.st/advanced-backlight_0.14-4_armel.deb | 02:43 |
| jott | or anyone else with a 770 and check if rotation works with it. just a try :) | 02:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Installing. . . . | 02:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | jott, 770 isn't up to Diablo | 02:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | libglib, libhildondestop0, libhildonwm0, libosso1 | 02:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | 2.12.12-1osso, 1:2.0.18-1, 1:2.0.18-1, 2.16 respectively | 02:48 |
| jott | ugh, right | 02:49 |
| n800n | burrrrrrrn! | 02:49 |
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| elekt | ;( | 02:49 |
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| jott | GeneralAntilles: same location. http://outpo.st/advanced-backlight_0.14-4_armel.deb | 02:54 |
| jott | build with chinook, this should hopefully be installable. | 02:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Installing | 03:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wow | 03:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Weird widgets | 03:03 |
| crashanddie | Who builds advanced backlight ? | 03:03 |
| jott | the autobuilder usually :P | 03:03 |
| crashanddie | why "usually" ? | 03:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Huh | 03:04 |
| jott | because pre-releases are sometimes build manually :) | 03:04 |
| crashanddie | oooh, ok :) | 03:04 |
| crashanddie | I know that :P | 03:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, uh, the bar widgets are really short | 03:04 |
| jott | GeneralAntilles: what happens? :O | 03:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Rotation works better | 03:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | But the Xserver seems confused about where taps are going. | 03:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | But, uh, the screen looks fine. | 03:04 |
| jott | ah ok so the input events are not translated :/ | 03:05 |
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| jott | well i can commit it for now. it's a progress :) | 03:05 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Actually | 03:05 |
| crashanddie | jott, I'm working on the progress bar in CR | 03:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | they seem semi-translated | 03:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | I can hit stuff on the taskbar fine | 03:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | But not on the statusbar | 03:05 |
| jott | crashanddie: nice. | 03:05 |
| jott | GeneralAntilles: strange... | 03:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or the application | 03:05 |
| plaerzen | hey guys. I'm seriously confused. When I try to move something in maemo on my n810 - it says 'mv: cannot remove '/usr/local/share/tf-lib.tgz': no such file or directory' but there is such file or directory. | 03:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 03:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Rotated charging screen | 03:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | that's pretty funny | 03:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh hell, jott, reboot didn't unrotate it. | 03:06 |
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| jott | huh?! | 03:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | There it goes | 03:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | AC power weirdness | 03:07 |
| jott | i just enabled autoupdate of the lcd :O | 03:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's fine now. ;) | 03:07 |
| jott | oh i realzied you got an intermediate version i started hacking on a few weeks ago :) | 03:09 |
| jott | with different layout, right? :) | 03:09 |
| crashanddie | lol @ rizla paper having a paper saying "ONLY 10 LEFT" | 03:09 |
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| _annex_ | hi all, has anyone done a quick n dirty port of glxgears to Vincent, (or any OpenGL ES implementation) ? | 03:15 |
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| crashanddie | wait, what ? | 03:16 |
| crashanddie | Vincent ? | 03:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes | 03:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's a software glgears | 03:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | There was just a post on Planet about software 3D, actually. | 03:16 |
| _annex_ | glgears is written to OpenGL no? | 03:17 |
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| _annex_ | I'm not concerned with the glX part actually, I can port that stuff over to DirectFB myself, must the OpenGL->ES mods | 03:17 |
| _annex_ | I'd like to use it as a reference for future ports | 03:18 |
| _annex_ | must/but | 03:18 |
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| rm_you | jott: playing with a different widget layout for ABL? lol | 03:28 |
| jott | rm_you: hehe yeah started and never finished :) | 03:28 |
| rm_you | interesting | 03:28 |
| rm_you | did you commit it? :P | 03:28 |
| jott | no | 03:28 |
| jott | should i? | 03:28 |
| rm_you | no :P | 03:29 |
| jott | hehe | 03:29 |
| rm_you | damn, being president of two student organizations is a PITA | 03:29 |
| jott | then resign :D | 03:29 |
| rm_you | can't | 03:29 |
| rm_you | one of them would just die | 03:29 |
| jott | "so long suckers" :) | 03:30 |
| rm_you | the other... i would be killed :P | 03:30 |
| rm_you | lynch mobs are no fun | 03:30 |
| rm_you | you want me to kill the ACM? :/ | 03:30 |
| rm_you | local ACM chapter is running because I want it to, pretty much with sheer willpower. if i left, it would collapse | 03:31 |
| rm_you | sadness | 03:31 |
| rm_you | anyway, i gotta run | 03:31 |
| rm_you | bbl | 03:31 |
| jott | have fun | 03:31 |
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| ChuangJiang | qemu: Unsupported syscall: 338 | 05:03 |
| ChuangJiang | Use default signal file name 'signalfile_1219802577.txt' | 05:03 |
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| ChuangJiang | I've met the above error message in the scratchbox. | 05:05 |
| ChuangJiang | Who could give me any advice? TIA. | 05:05 |
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| moontiger_ | looks like qemu doesnt support a hardware feature to me | 05:08 |
| ChuangJiang | TO moontiger_: Thank you your reply so much. | 05:09 |
| ChuangJiang | Now, what can I do ? | 05:09 |
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| moontiger_ | i cant say for sure and im no expert on his but of course google it (if you havent already) and what were you doing anyways? | 05:10 |
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| ChuangJiang | I've googled it but have not solved it yet. I'm building OpenOffice.org in the scratchbox. | 05:13 |
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| moontiger_ | ahhhhhhhh right | 05:15 |
| moontiger_ | i remember from last week | 05:15 |
| moontiger_ | do you have java working? | 05:16 |
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| ChuangJiang | NO | 05:17 |
| moontiger_ | can you run OO without java? | 05:18 |
| ChuangJiang | Yes. | 05:18 |
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| moontiger | anything else printed out with that error? | 05:22 |
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| moontiger | ChuangJiang, it does need java for some functionality ... i assume you have disabled those parts in the build yes? | 05:24 |
| ChuangJiang | Yeah. | 05:25 |
| moontiger | hmmmmmmmmm all i can imagine is that something needed isnt supported in the emulation | 05:27 |
| moontiger | sorry i cant help anymore :| | 05:27 |
| ChuangJiang | Thank you anyway. | 05:28 |
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| BryanLAS | Hey all | 07:11 |
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| BryanLAS | Wrote up a little article on Maemo games... feel free to digg it to give maemo a little exposure. | 07:11 |
| BryanLAS | http://digg.com/linux_unix/The_Best_in_Linux_Handheld_Gaming_Part_1 | 07:11 |
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| BryanLAS | Ya know. If you feel so inclined. :) | 07:12 |
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| CptLaptop | numpty physics need more included levels | 07:21 |
| BryanLAS | Agreed. | 07:22 |
| BryanLAS | But it's pretty awesome. :) | 07:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | It needs a built-in level downloader | 07:22 |
| CptLaptop | have to try that pengupop game | 07:23 |
| BryanLAS | So true. That would be fantastic. | 07:23 |
| CptLaptop | i lovve bust a move | 07:23 |
| BryanLAS | Heh, same! | 07:23 |
| CptLaptop | there was this game | 07:26 |
| CptLaptop | contraptions or what it was called | 07:26 |
| CptLaptop | windows game | 07:26 |
| CptLaptop | clone of that would pwn | 07:26 |
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| CptLaptop | it had all sorts or devices and such you'd place around the screen to make something happen, rube goldberg style | 07:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's an old one | 07:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Enigmo is another clone | 07:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | I played that one in the 90s | 07:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Forget the name, though. | 07:28 |
| CptLaptop | i played contraptions in school | 07:29 |
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| CptLaptop | teacher used it to help us think or whatnot | 07:29 |
| CptLaptop | loved it | 07:29 |
| CptLaptop | pfft work | 07:30 |
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| BryanLAS | Seriously though. If any off you use digg. Let's get a Maemo story to the front page: http://digg.com/linux_unix/The_Best_in_Linux_Handheld_Gaming_Part_1 | 07:31 |
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| dougt | so, i don't understand these watchdogs. | 07:49 |
| dougt | if I write an application that eats all of the CPU, i can cause the device to reboot instead of having the OS just kill my process? | 07:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not quite | 07:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | But I dunno the specifics | 07:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's a maemo-developers question | 07:52 |
| dougt | mailing list? | 07:53 |
| * dougt found it. https://lists.maemo.org/mailman//listinfo/maemo-developers | 07:53 | |
| dougt | is there a irc channel for dev questions? | 07:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Here | 07:54 |
| dougt | cool. | 07:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | But the people best able to answer watchdog questions are on the mailing list | 07:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Igor Stoppa is your man | 07:54 |
| elek | hey GA does this player work on microB http://jiwa.fm | 07:57 |
| elek | flash player | 07:57 |
| elek | the ones i've tried before didn't and now i don't have my nit with me | 07:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Broken URL | 07:58 |
| elek | http://www.jiwa.fm/ | 07:58 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Doesn't really seem to be, but I dunno. | 08:06 |
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| elek | yeah it's probably the same flash player modified | 08:10 |
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| Luria | ok, so i flirted with the eee, but mostly came back to my n8x0... | 08:34 |
| BryanLAS | Heh. | 08:35 |
| BryanLAS | I did something similar. | 08:35 |
| Luria | but i think openpandora (if i can get one) will finally pull me away | 08:35 |
| BryanLAS | Love my Eee... but the N810 stays closer. | 08:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | I want an ARM netbook | 08:36 |
| Luria | i dont know if the screen is transflective; thats about all i want | 08:36 |
| Luria | GeneralAntilles, have you seen the specs on the pandora? | 08:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Luria, yes, I'm very familiar with OMAP3 | 08:36 |
| Luria | ah, ok | 08:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | But it's not netbook | 08:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a DS | 08:36 |
| BryanLAS | Yeah, it's really the spiritual successor to the GP2x. | 08:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/not/no/ | 08:37 |
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| Luria | the ds has a qwerty keyboard? | 08:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | thumbboard | 08:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's the size and shape of a DS | 08:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not a netbook and not an internet tablet. | 08:38 |
| BryanLAS | Really though... DS shape + a thumboard... has a lot of potential. | 08:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Meh, I don't care for it. | 08:38 |
| dougt | but, if you drop a ds, it isn't going to blow up. | 08:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd rather have the tablet. | 08:38 |
| Luria | and more power than a nokia | 08:38 |
| Luria | and working 3d | 08:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Luria, N900 | 08:38 |
| Luria | and svideo out | 08:38 |
| BryanLAS | I think I'm with you there. The tablet is probably more my thing... | 08:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | The N8x0 is basically 1.5 years old at this point. | 08:39 |
| BryanLAS | Any news on the n900? | 08:39 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Nokia does not announce future hardware plans. ;) | 08:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, no FCC docs. | 08:39 |
| Luria | and yet, the n810 wimax is the same thing again | 08:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Erm, yeah, duh. | 08:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's SUPPOSED to be the same thing | 08:39 |
| Luria | i know, what i mean is this: | 08:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | N900 with OMAP3430 is somewhere in the Q4 2008 - Q2 2009 | 08:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | The Pandora hasn't shipped | 08:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Get back to me when it ships. | 08:40 |
| Luria | while i know there is a future for the platform, if the n810w comes out ~oct, would nokia undercut its sales by releasing the n900 so quickly? | 08:40 |
| Luria | no, but there are dev kit pandoras | 08:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Dev kits don't count. | 08:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Forget the WiMAX | 08:41 |
| Luria | (recall the if i can get one) | 08:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's not relevant to the larger plan. | 08:41 |
| Luria | thats good to hear | 08:41 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I mean, what, it's supported in all of 6 or 7 US cities? | 08:42 |
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| GeneralAntilles | You know the WiMAX tablet was originally going to be the N800W, right? | 08:42 |
| Luria | yes | 08:42 |
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| Grackle_ | Wow, I just tried lcuk's liqbase demo. I really like that reader he's working on. | 08:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | The "undercut" argument doesn't really work | 08:43 |
| Luria | i dunno, HOPE's pipe was a 20/30 mbit connection over the hudson - yes, i know this is more point to point and not last mile wireless | 08:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | as the competition will start chiseling away Nokia's market if they sit with OMAP2 for too long. | 08:43 |
| Luria | but it was commerical wimax | 08:43 |
| BryanLAS | Definitely interested in what the next N9xx looks like. -REALLY- hoping Nokia doesn't drop the qwerty. | 08:44 |
| * GeneralAntilles is hoping they do. | 08:44 | |
| Luria | yes, i havent touched my n800 since the n810 | 08:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | The thumbboard on the N810 sucks | 08:44 |
| BryanLAS | Really? | 08:44 |
| Luria | yes, it needs more travel | 08:44 |
| BryanLAS | Honestly... no qwerty... I ditch. | 08:44 |
| BryanLAS | Deal breaker level. | 08:44 |
| BryanLAS | It may not be great... but it's needed. | 08:45 |
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| Luria | hope they put a real gps chipset in | 08:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's no way they'll drop it | 08:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | I just don't care for it. | 08:45 |
| BryanLAS | Fair enough. :) | 08:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | I can type a lot faster on the fkb than that shitty thumb board. | 08:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | I want one of those haptic 770s they demoed. | 08:45 |
| Luria | yeah, but you cant see the rest of the screen | 08:46 |
| Luria | haptic 770? | 08:46 |
| Luria | never saw that | 08:46 |
| BryanLAS | (btw: if you haven't yet... feel free to digg this maemo games post: http://digg.com/linux_unix/The_Best_in_Linux_Handheld_Gaming_Part_1 ) | 08:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody want to prod that "Nokia fails at changelogs" thread on -developers for me? | 08:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | I was hoping for more of a response. . . . | 08:50 |
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| tank-man | more TSP Reports! | 09:11 |
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| RST38h | GAN: Is prodding going to be of any use? | 09:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, I got a response out of 3 engineers. | 09:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Now we just need to bring it up back near the top again to get more. ;) | 09:20 |
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| GeneralAntilles | By prodding, I mean prodding the thread, not the Nokia employees. | 09:20 |
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| pupnik | tank-man: most subersive movie ever | 09:26 |
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| pupnik | lol you people have no clue what's coming | 09:36 |
| pupnik | enjoy feeding the rats | 09:36 |
| pupnik | with your bodies | 09:36 |
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| GeneralAntilles | nou | 09:42 |
| * GeneralAntilles launches breaded and deep-fried pigeons at pupnik. | 09:42 | |
| Proteous | yum! | 09:42 |
| * Proteous points to his mouth | 09:42 | |
| Proteous | <---- | 09:42 |
| Proteous | RIGHT HERE | 09:42 |
| * GeneralAntilles launches more at Proteous. | 09:42 | |
| Proteous | SQUAB | 09:42 |
| * GeneralAntilles hits Proteous in the eye. | 09:42 | |
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| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: Here's g_serial. Whether it actually works is a different matter... http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/g_serial.ko | 10:29 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: oh, neat :) | 10:30 |
| Stskeeps | for 2.6.21? | 10:31 |
| qwerty12 | Yeah, compiled from diablo sources with nokia_2420_defconfig | 10:31 |
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| Addison | Greetings and salutations everyone! :) | 10:32 |
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| Addison | I demand some attention! :p | 10:37 |
| * aquatix pats Addison | 10:38 | |
| * Stskeeps passes Addison a rat | 10:38 | |
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| aquatix | there's a good Addison | 10:39 |
| RST38h | Heh, US air traffic is stuck again | 10:39 |
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| *** hrw|gone is now known as hrw | 10:40 | |
| hrw | morning | 10:40 |
| * RST38h is praying to the Deep Ones to prevent another US ATC cluster fuck on August 29 | 10:40 | |
| RST38h | hrw | 10:40 |
| qwerty12 | morning hrw | 10:40 |
| * qwerty12 is bored. me looks into replacing fb-progress with splashy. | 10:43 | |
| Stskeeps | splashy? | 10:44 |
| qwerty12 | userspace bootsplash replacement | 10:45 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 10:45 |
| RST38h | Not *another* Tux picture | 10:45 |
| RST38h | Please. | 10:45 |
| aquatix | heheheh | 10:45 |
| qwerty12 | Hehe, Tux with a gun to his head won't satisfy you? | 10:45 |
| Stskeeps | if i'm going to put a bootsplash on deblet, it's going to be the deblet logo, molesting tux | 10:46 |
| RST38h | no | 10:46 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:46 |
| aquatix | RST38h: you can put the bsd devil or boobies in there too | 10:46 |
| RST38h | I just want that stupid penguin gone | 10:46 |
| qwerty12 | Drown him in some Finnish lake somewhere. | 10:46 |
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| RST38h | Same goes for the devil, although with a lesser degree | 10:46 |
| aquatix | or that bloathed fish | 10:47 |
| hrw | fb-progress is that blue line? | 10:47 |
| RST38h | yep | 10:47 |
| qwerty12 | fb-progress is open source actually | 10:47 |
| RST38h | hrw: Wanted to ask, are you a regular employee of Openedhand? | 10:47 |
| aquatix | qwerty12: can't you better channel your time/energy in some synching software? :) | 10:47 |
| aquatix | contacts/agenda synching or something | 10:48 |
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| hrw | RST38h: no, I was contractor for OH | 10:48 |
| qwerty12 | aquatix: I'm a lowly compiler :). I haz no programming knowledge except for the bits I've picked up here and there | 10:48 |
| qwerty12 | It's a shame NOLO sucks as a bootloader, the only way to pass kernel arguments is to recompile the kernel itself. | 10:49 |
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| * Stskeeps is sure qwerty12 will make something big of himself someday | 10:49 | |
| RST38h | hrw: Oh, ok.. | 10:49 |
| qwerty12 | Heh, thanks :) | 10:49 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Got a request for the lowly compiler then | 10:49 |
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| qwerty12 | Come on, you know a hell of a lot more than me :P | 10:50 |
| RST38h | qwerty: http://qalculate.sourceforge.net/ | 10:50 |
| RST38h | It was requested by a few more people lately | 10:51 |
| qwerty12 | Hmm, I think I tried that one once to no avail, I'll try again :). Meanwhile, people have it working in chroot. | 10:51 |
| RST38h | yea, but it is useless for people who have no debian installed | 10:52 |
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| qwerty12 | True, I'll start installing/building dependencies. | 10:54 |
| aquatix | ooh, qalculate would be cool | 10:54 |
| aquatix | qwerty12: can't you base it on debian's package? | 10:54 |
| qwerty12 | aquatix: aye, I can build it using debian modifications but libraries are different in maemo so different results | 10:55 |
| Stskeeps | sometimes i really wonder about debian dependancies.. like, wtf is there 'radeontool' (for ATI Radeon), .. on armel? | 10:55 |
| aquatix | qwerty12: ah, true | 10:55 |
| aquatix | Stskeeps: lol | 10:56 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: armel users need their overclocking fix :P | 10:56 |
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| pupnik | qwerty12: try this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2dgMNm64Mg | 11:00 |
| pupnik | david sylvian - orpheus | 11:00 |
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| qwerty12 | Interesting video :) | 11:01 |
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| Addison | Pupnik! What's up you scum lapping piece of dirt? :) | 11:02 |
| pupnik | your words ring true | 11:02 |
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| Stskeeps | it's kinda scary that kde3 is so snappy on tablet | 11:08 |
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| * qwerty12 notes never to compile math libraries again | 11:30 | |
| RST38h | hehe | 11:31 |
| RST38h | Trouble? | 11:31 |
| RST38h | BTW, f@#king Modest no longer crashes but it gets stuck now and then | 11:31 |
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| qwerty12 | RST38h: Still compiling after a long time :D | 11:32 |
| RST38h | I hope you are not compiling it on the tablet | 11:32 |
| qwerty12 | I haven't even got started on qcalculate | 11:32 |
| qwerty12 | hell no, I ain't lcuk | 11:32 |
| XTL | heh | 11:33 |
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| RST38h | Gentlemen, please check out this bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3641 | 11:37 |
| RST38h | And bloody confirm it | 11:37 |
| qwerty12 | Sorry, don't use modest here. | 11:38 |
| RST38h | yea, I understand :( | 11:38 |
| qwerty12 | f*** me, after taking ages to compile, the debian/rules had a make check in it >.< | 11:38 |
| * sp3000 hasn't seen that, not that I invoke the ui that often | 11:39 | |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, did you notice my call-out to the Modest devs? :P | 11:39 |
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| RST38h | GAN: I am not following mailing lists - too much other stuff =( | 11:42 |
| RST38h | Maybe I should though | 11:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2008-August/034736.html | 11:42 |
| RST38h | GAN: Changelog referring to bug numbers is normal | 11:43 |
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| RST38h | That is how most companies operate - when you submit a change, you refer to a bug tracker entry | 11:44 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: But a) the Modest bug tracker should be the open Bugzilla, b) it should also say *how* it's fixed the bug. | 11:44 |
| * RST38h does not, but a lot of coworkers do | 11:44 | |
| * Jaffa slaps anyone here who *solely* refers to a JIRA issue. | 11:44 | |
| aquatix | RST38h: ah, i've encountered that too | 11:44 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Agreed. Modest devs seem singularly insular. | 11:44 |
| RST38h | Somebody else should take over from them | 11:45 |
| RST38h | Somebody realistic | 11:45 |
| * aquatix uses claws-mail now though | 11:45 | |
| qwerty12 | Someone should dpkg-repack the old email client | 11:45 |
| RST38h | aquatix: Do confirm the bug though - if nobody does, these guys will ignore it | 11:45 |
| qwerty12 | I'd do it but I can't be arsed to mount chinook rootfs and shove it all into a DIABLO_ARMEL target | 11:45 |
| * qwerty12 yawns, shit finally compiled. I'll put up the packages so no one else has to go through hell | 11:46 | |
| qwerty12 | Well, the math library anyway | 11:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | #ffd086 seems like it'd be a bit less irritating a background color for the Bugzilla footer. . . . | 11:47 |
| RST38h | sdk+ has finally got diablo rootstrap | 11:48 |
| aquatix | RST38h: busy thinking what my maemo bugzilla pw was :) | 11:48 |
| RST38h | reboooting to linsux | 11:48 |
| aquatix | RST38h: you can always install freebsd or something ;) | 11:49 |
| aquatix | [if you think linux sucks :)] | 11:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | So, uh, who's gonna be working on the new maemo.org look at the Summit. :P | 11:50 |
| qwerty12 | "FreeBSD welcome screen" - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/FreeBSD.png/280px-FreeBSD.png | 11:50 |
| qwerty12 | Oh yeah, I so want to be welcomed to that | 11:50 |
| XTL | It gets worse after that, though | 11:50 |
| aquatix | qwerty12: hm, that's an almost readable thumb | 11:50 |
| aquatix | but indeed | 11:50 |
| qwerty12 | :P http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:FreeBSD.png | 11:51 |
| * qwerty12 clicked copy image location, not copy link >.< | 11:51 | |
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| aquatix | :) | 11:52 |
| RST38h | aquatix: And how am I gonna use Maemo sdk? | 11:56 |
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| RST38h | What is wrong with this screen? | 11:57 |
| Addison | Hey qwerty.... Have you looked at the keyboards yet? | 11:58 |
| RST38h | I see it every morning. Looks fine, except that some Linux fan seems to have changed csh to bash | 11:58 |
| qwerty12 | Addison: not yet | 11:58 |
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| Addison | I never liked you qwerty! :) | 11:58 |
| qwerty12 | :P | 11:59 |
| aquatix | RST38h: erm, VM? :P | 11:59 |
| RST38h | aquatix: no, thanks | 11:59 |
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| pupnik | if i ever meet a viagra spammer, i will disembowel him with my fingers | 12:00 |
| aquatix | RST38h: :) | 12:00 |
| qwerty12 | pupnik: I'd use bricks instead... | 12:02 |
| GAN800 | Force feed them viagra. | 12:03 |
| qwerty12 | Sigh, more NB madness: http://pastebin.com/m5af71d12 | 12:04 |
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| Stskeeps | NB? | 12:05 |
| GAN800 | Nokia Bug | 12:05 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 12:05 |
| GAN800 | Masking the email domains? odd | 12:05 |
| RST38h | + lsd, then let them roam through Salt Lake City naked | 12:06 |
| GAN800 | Salt Lake? Bleh, boring. Make that SF. They might get some action there. ;) | 12:07 |
| Stskeeps | "forbidden words".. wtf :P | 12:07 |
| qwerty12 | SF? Make that Guantánamo Bay. They can have a cock meat sandwich. | 12:08 |
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| RST38h | GAN: We want him lynched, not raped! | 12:11 |
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| florian | good morning | 13:03 |
| qwerty12 | morning | 13:03 |
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| Addison | Don't listen to qwerty, he's an animal! *lol* | 13:20 |
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| RST38h | what animal is he? | 13:25 |
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| liri | a bad one I think | 13:35 |
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| Khertan_n810 | Hello | 13:49 |
| Khertan_n810 | one of you use gdata here ? | 13:49 |
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| * L0cutus need mldonkey on maemo :) | 13:57 | |
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| qwerty12 | L0cutus: Compile it and share, I hate the time to compile that :P.I'm using Transmission and gtk-gnutella atm | 13:58 |
| L0cutus | hehehe | 13:58 |
| L0cutus | transmission is only for *torrent right ? | 13:58 |
| qwerty12 | yep | 13:59 |
| L0cutus | ok | 13:59 |
| qwerty12 | Someone's uploaded rtorrent in extras too | 13:59 |
| L0cutus | mmm i don't use torrent very much unfortunately | 14:00 |
| L0cutus | *mule is what i need :-) | 14:00 |
| lcuk | jott, basic alpha blending works nicely :) | 14:01 |
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| Jaffa | GAN800: free's changelog is fantastic. | 14:05 |
| Jaffa | GAN800: are his scripts public? | 14:05 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Jaffa: http://p.quinput.eu/debfarm/chdiffx.pl.txt + vi | 14:06 |
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| * Khertan_n810 don t understand why sync with googlecalendar is so long | 14:16 | |
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| Khertan_n810 | someone know how modest store the alarmd cookies for the autosync | 14:18 |
| RST38h | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/27/worse_things_happen_at_sea/ | 14:19 |
| Khertan_n810 | because i think it store it as we can t get a list of ecisting alarm | 14:19 |
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| lardman | afternoon | 14:21 |
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| lcuk | hi there lardman, did you enjoy your weekend? | 14:21 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hi lardman | 14:21 |
| lardman | hey qwerty12_N800 | 14:21 |
| lardman | lcuk: not especially, looking at wedding venues, very stressful | 14:21 |
| lardman | lcuk: you? | 14:22 |
| lcuk | ooooh, it was for you - i thought you were goin to someone elses wedding | 14:22 |
| lardman | yeah, that was the weekend before last | 14:22 |
| lcuk | mapart from raging toothache (which is now cured) code has been goin great | 14:22 |
| lardman | urgh, dentist | 14:22 |
| lcuk | ive done the physics view using all jpegs found on my computer - with alpha blended bitmaps :) | 14:23 |
| lardman | cool :) | 14:23 |
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| lcuk | obviously its not as smooth when im drawing multiple fullscreen overlapping eleements, but when its not entire screen its niiiiice and fast | 14:23 |
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| lcuk | i installed canola yesterday to have a look at its alpha blending goodness - and a couplf of things jumped out - how slow and limited the movement actually is - its using the smalled amount of blending possible and it still jerks | 14:25 |
| lcuk | and the media library doesnt fill up instantly | 14:25 |
| lcuk | i have my software set to do recursive directory scans of /home and /media and it completes and builds a filelist in ~ 1-2 seconds | 14:26 |
| lcuk | i dont understand why file lists cannot be the same .. | 14:26 |
| lardman | shame Canola isn't open source so you could tweak it | 14:26 |
| lcuk | yer, i know some of it is, and the meta data inside files is important, but to be told ive got no movies or music or anything on my device is wrong | 14:27 |
| lcuk | even if it was "43 files, listing by name" then as meta info loaded its includable | 14:27 |
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| lcuk | im thinking about a realtime search like the apple searchbox | 14:28 |
| qwerty12_N800 | the media scanner part of it is oss | 14:28 |
| lcuk | yer qwerty12_N800 but to understand how it slots in would really need canola source | 14:28 |
| qwerty12_N800 | ah | 14:29 |
| lcuk | im not gonna dig into something i will have to say "imagine canola is running xyz now" | 14:29 |
| lcuk | would it be evil if i used the media scanner ;) | 14:29 |
| lcuk | lardman, did you find a venue then? | 14:31 |
| Khertan_n810 | lcuk: it ll be really take time to parse metadata | 14:32 |
| Khertan_n810 | so if you use metalayer-crawler | 14:32 |
| lardman | lcuk: looked at 16! narrowed it down | 14:32 |
| Khertan_n810 | expect useless device for 4 hours after inserting an 6Go sd card | 14:32 |
| lcuk | Khertan_n810, it doesnt matter, i can build a filelist uickly and let another thread start churning at the extra meta data - but the interface should be usable instantly is what i am saying | 14:32 |
| lcuk | lardman, !!!! 16 thats a lot of vicars | 14:33 |
| lardman | lcuk: just for the reception, church is known already | 14:33 |
| lcuk | ahhhh thats ok then | 14:33 |
| lcuk | when is the big day? | 14:33 |
| * lardman is even looking forward to debugging dsp-tremor over doing more costing spreadhseets | 14:34 | |
| lardman | aiming for end of May/start of June next year | 14:34 |
| lcuk | and have you checked it doesnt clash with maemo summit/nokia day/football/x factor/enders special etc | 14:34 |
| lardman | lol | 14:34 |
| lardman | no, but that'll just cut costs ;) | 14:35 |
| lcuk | leave the beancounting to the bestman, you carry on debugging tremor :D | 14:35 |
| lardman | lcuk: Holly and I are paying the lion's share though, so I need to do bean counting | 14:35 |
| lardman | anyway, will crack on with Tremor at lunch time | 14:36 |
| lcuk | lol, its bloody expensive all the wedding stuff | 14:36 |
| lardman | tell me about it! :) | 14:36 |
| lcuk | did you see the couple that managed it on about £400 | 14:36 |
| lcuk | i think they had a mcdonalds or something :D | 14:37 |
| lardman | lol, I did think of throwing that at the mother in law | 14:37 |
| lcuk | lol | 14:37 |
| lardman | I need to debug the crc code again, painful after spending all that time re-writing it and the bit-reading code to read from the 16bit chars | 14:39 |
| lardman | now gone to only storing 8bits in each 16bit char, which will hopefully make getting something up and running easier - converting the code back, I spotted loads of things I'd missed going the other way :S | 14:40 |
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| lcuk | lardman, always the way, glad you are simplifying it though. | 14:42 |
| lardman | well it's stagnating, I'd like to get it to a state where it at least runs, then perhaps people will be intereted in optimisation, etc. | 14:42 |
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| lcuk | i would jump on the code as fast as i could if the level of entry into dsp coding wasnt so high | 14:43 |
| lardman | it's not! | 14:44 |
| lardman | people just think that | 14:44 |
| lcuk | ok... so how do i install and run from my nokia.. | 14:44 |
| lcuk | or even, can i | 14:44 |
| lardman | Ah, well that's a minor issue then :) | 14:44 |
| lardman | no | 14:44 |
| lcuk | ;) | 14:44 |
| lcuk | its windows based sdk isnt it | 14:44 |
| lcuk | which makes life easier for me :D | 14:44 |
| lardman | no, Linux command line toolchain, like GCC | 14:45 |
| lardman | Not sure how the Windows based one works, never tried it | 14:45 |
| lcuk | im sure you said it was windows | 14:45 |
| lardman | There's a windows based one too | 14:45 |
| lcuk | ahhh - you mustv said there is one, no prob | 14:45 |
| lcuk | so does it live inside scratchbox, or does it have its own | 14:45 |
| lardman | nah, it's a cross-compiler, so it's an x86 binary | 14:46 |
| lardman | or rather a group of x86 binaries - compiler, linker, etc. | 14:46 |
| lcuk | i have to register to download don't i? | 14:47 |
| lardman | yes | 14:47 |
| lardman | free registration though | 14:47 |
| lardman | I need to update the instructions on the DSP programming wiki page though, Ti have re-organised their download pages | 14:48 |
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| lcuk | maybe after the summit i'll see what help i can get from the dsp :) | 14:48 |
| qwerty12_N800 | i think i used a bugmenot to get some ti stuff | 14:49 |
| lcuk | the image scaling and alpha blending code is byte optimized and not as quick as the other code (which copies 32bits as a time) | 14:49 |
| lardman | lcuk: graphically we may be limited, if ssvb's there we should have a chat to him | 14:49 |
| lardman | Anyway, if you have parallelised code, you could offload some stuff, depends really | 14:50 |
| lardman | accessing shared memory is pretty slow | 14:50 |
| lcuk | yer i know it maybe so, but i just wanna see how multi core updating works - ie simulate arm+iva updating at same time | 14:50 |
| lardman | will be interesting to see if this video out uses the IVA to do the mpeg2/4 encoding | 14:51 |
| lcuk | it cant be that slow surely - its a dsp which needs lots of datas | 14:51 |
| lcuk | which video out? ahhhh the one quim oooopsied on | 14:51 |
| lardman | lcuk: well you pass the data in, then do lots of processing using the fast internal memory, so depending on the data/processing ratio it might make sense | 14:51 |
| lardman | lcuk: yeah, there's a thready on itt too about it | 14:52 |
| * RST38h read it as "fast inFernal memory" | 14:52 | |
| lardman | assuming that's the same one | 14:52 |
| lcuk | data in 2000 vectors. data out rendered rectangle of pixel goodness | 14:52 |
| lardman | RST38h: :) well it is that, not enough of it | 14:52 |
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| lardman | lcuk: the framebuffer memory is shared though too.... | 14:52 |
| lcuk | yes i know | 14:53 |
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| lardman | I couldn't get above 5fps iirc, not sure how far ssvb got with that | 14:53 |
| lcuk | were you usikng xv? | 14:53 |
| lardman | no, directly drawing to the framebuffer from the DSP | 14:53 |
| lcuk | or direct framebuffer | 14:54 |
| lcuk | ahhh yes, i remember the space scene | 14:54 |
| lardman | yeah | 14:54 |
| lardman | I'll have to refresh my memory on that for my talk | 14:54 |
| lardman | lunch time, bbiab | 14:55 |
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| lcuk | what would be the practicalities of setting up a base vmware image for DSP dev? | 14:55 |
| lcuk | damn, catch you later | 14:55 |
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| RST38h | McCain has proposed prolonging Shuttle life beyond 2012 | 14:57 |
| lcuk | i think with tension heating up between russia and everyone else they need a backup plan | 14:58 |
| RST38h | They have NO backup plan. This is the funniest part. | 14:58 |
| RST38h | Orion is being delayed in development, engineering problems. | 14:58 |
| lcuk | yer, they need more gravel on the track between garage and launchpad | 14:59 |
| RST38h | Shuttles have reached the age where they start randomly crashing | 14:59 |
| lcuk | they have been that age all along, its sheer luck | 14:59 |
| RST38h | And they just don't want to cooperate with Russians for xenophobic reasons | 15:00 |
| lcuk | maybe the chinese will help them out :| :D :S | 15:00 |
| RST38h | No deal, same reasoning | 15:01 |
| lcuk | so they give up manned spaceflight, or they carry on with shuttles | 15:02 |
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| RST38h | Can't carry on with Shuttles - too old | 15:04 |
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| glass | they can carry on untill the last one explodes | 15:05 |
| RST38h | Well, they can, but as soon as last remaining orbiters (2?) crash and burn, they are back to the "give up" stage | 15:05 |
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| RST38h | BTW, refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Orbiter | 15:06 |
| RST38h | They appear to crash in order of manufacture time | 15:06 |
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| Jaffa | Enterprise ain't crashed yet ;-) | 15:11 |
| Jaffa | Although it did get cancelled after 4 seasons | 15:11 |
| RST38h | The real one can't fly | 15:11 |
| RST38h | It is a training vehicle afaik | 15:11 |
| Jaffa | Well, it can atmospherically fly; IIRC. | 15:12 |
| RST38h | My shoes can atmospherically fly =) | 15:12 |
| Jaffa | That's not flying, just falling with style. | 15:13 |
| Jaffa | Admittedly, not much better than the Shuttle does ;-) | 15:13 |
| * RST38h just hopes that Obama gets elected and, being a lawyer, has enough common sense not to screw things up | 15:14 | |
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| baaba | how would i diagnose a situation where sbrshd on a device silently fails to attempt mounting the nfs shares specified in .sbrsh? | 15:47 |
| baaba | the log says it receives a mount packet but after that there's no error message and also nothing is mounted | 15:48 |
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| Khertan | Hello again ! (copyright Apple Computer) | 16:02 |
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| RST38h | EHLO | 16:02 |
| aquatix | iHello | 16:02 |
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| Khertan | i m staying on the 'Hello Again !' of the Macintosh Plus :) | 16:04 |
| RST38h | But you can express 'EHLO' with a single 32bit integer | 16:06 |
| RST38h | Isn't it better? | 16:06 |
| aquatix | not sure, 32bit integer are 4 bytes | 16:06 |
| aquatix | while `EHLO' can be expressed in 7bit ascii | 16:07 |
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| aquatix | so, 28bit effectively | 16:07 |
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| bergie | we will soon start re-import of all maemo email list archives on maemo.org. Expect slowness | 16:08 |
| bergie | unfortunately the new server cluster didn't quite make it for this operation yet | 16:08 |
| lopz | hola | 16:08 |
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| bergie | huh, just making a DB backup via mysqldump --opt takes 15+ mins | 16:13 |
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| lcuk | aquatix, nice. the internets will work really well using your 7bit optimization technique. and the world will use 12.5% less electricity | 16:26 |
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| Anunakin | Any knows where can I change keyboard layout on sbox? | 16:26 |
| XTL | The trick with 7-bit protocol is you can affort to use the eighth for parity. | 16:27 |
| XTL | Anunakin: scratchbox cares about keyboard layout? | 16:27 |
| XTL | Do you mean in the display "emulator" session (Xephyr)? | 16:27 |
| lcuk | but if we still have to use the 8th bit, theres no savings i would rather simply use 7bit cleanly and leave parity to itself | 16:28 |
| aquatix | who needs error checking/correction anyway | 16:28 |
| lcuk | its not likkqqiosiodoiemvcoierg | 16:28 |
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| aquatix | *carrier lost* | 16:29 |
| XTL | Some peopple could use Hamming coding | 16:29 |
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| lcuk | isnt there an internet law somehwere about "the more you attempt to correct or laugh at those making mistakes, the more mistakes you make yourself?" | 16:30 |
| aquatix | XTL: i do, when i'm tired | 16:30 |
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| lcuk | heh :D if irc made you specify a checksum for your posts | 16:31 |
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| aquatix | based on natural language parsers and some machine learning on your past typos | 16:32 |
| Anunakin | XTL:Here my keyb, not working at my native layout... | 16:32 |
| lcuk | aquatix, omg no - historical fixups are bad - i wouldnt want to be autocorrected here in maemo after ive just spent a couple of hours in the midget trapeze prostitute channel - it could get embarrassing | 16:33 |
| Anunakin | XTL: the error is on Xephyr/Maemo emulated with af-.... script | 16:33 |
| XTL | Right. | 16:35 |
| aquatix | lcuk: mental image... disturbing... | 16:35 |
| aquatix | lcuk: might want to filter on used channel ;) | 16:35 |
| XTL | Anunakin: Never actually looked at that.. | 16:35 |
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| lcuk | aquatix, was just an example, but its one of the problems with global dictionaries and auto correct.. | 16:36 |
| aquatix | i know :) | 16:37 |
| lcuk | speaking of going to special sites and rooms, the new porn browsing feature of ie8 - what happens if you click on a movie in ie and it opens in mediaplayer - would that also honour the porn browsing or will temp folder be filled up with movies.. ? | 16:38 |
| aquatix | browsing porn in IE doesn't sound like a good idea anyway | 16:39 |
| lcuk | ok, searching for presents for your wife without her seeing what you wanna buy her | 16:39 |
| aquatix | lcuk: maybe they will put a restricted mode into mediaplayer too | 16:39 |
| lcuk | but what if i use mplayer | 16:39 |
| aquatix | create a huge, walled garden | 16:39 |
| lcuk | or real player | 16:39 |
| lcuk | or anything | 16:39 |
| aquatix | well, i think you just found their achilles heel ;) | 16:40 |
| lcuk | opens a word document - does it go into the word recent history | 16:40 |
| aquatix | the more reason to implement the trusted computing platform! | 16:40 |
| lcuk | there is a whole can of worms that the feature would open up - and especially for the home users - they think it will be an invisibility shield against the world - hell some are saying it will make it impossible for police to detect badness | 16:40 |
| lcuk | arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh | 16:40 |
| lcuk | no, just a ram disk please :) | 16:41 |
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| aquatix | lcuk: but, but, but, in combination with Vista that'll take 16GB of ram to browse! | 16:41 |
| lcuk | a proper honest to goodness real life dynamic ram disk (take the code from amiga if required :) ) | 16:41 |
| lcuk | 16gb to boot, maybe more if you actually wannna do anything | 16:41 |
| aquatix | yeah, i was calculating a 16MB ram drive for browsing | 16:42 |
| aquatix | bare minimum, hey | 16:42 |
| lcuk | dont allocate anything, just expand as required :) | 16:42 |
| lcuk | "oooops no space left - you have filled 3.2GB with thumbnails, please close 'secure mode' and restart your browser" | 16:43 |
| aquatix | it's windows, it'll take anything from you if you don't allocate | 16:43 |
| aquatix | please reboot your pc | 16:43 |
| * aquatix wonders how much real pron 3.2GB of thumbnails represent :/ | 16:44 | |
| lcuk | hey! maemo is just as bad. it did some update and told me to reboot | 16:44 |
| lcuk | depends if you are using skin colored jpeg dictionary or not | 16:44 |
| aquatix | still wonder when in-place kernel upgrading will be here | 16:44 |
| XTL | So far the maemo updates have been equivalent to os upgrade. | 16:44 |
| aquatix | lcuk: indexed jpg's will be a lot smaller indeed | 16:44 |
| XTL | Scrap these current systems and go for full live code update | 16:45 |
| aquatix | erlang++ | 16:45 |
| XTL | Erlang :) | 16:45 |
| XTL | Erlang tablets | 16:46 |
| aquatix | hmmmm, a kernel in erlang.. | 16:46 |
| lcuk | isnt there a research project to port the kernel to c# | 16:46 |
| * lcuk ducks | 16:46 | |
| aquatix | there is | 16:46 |
| lcuk | oh crap | 16:46 |
| aquatix | already been there, done that | 16:46 |
| lcuk | i was joking | 16:46 |
| aquatix | singularity or something it's called | 16:46 |
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| XTL | Oh, that. | 16:46 |
| aquatix | #weird microsoft | 16:46 |
| aquatix | ages old :) | 16:47 |
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| aquatix | http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080208-developers-create-open-source-os-kernels-using-net-tools.html <- hm | 16:48 |
| lcuk | thats not the linux kernel though | 16:48 |
| XTL | which of course is nice | 16:48 |
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| aquatix | lcuk: nope, those are microkernels even | 16:48 |
| lcuk | yer i know, thankfully even they realise they need *some* assembler down in the core | 16:49 |
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| aquatix | but i remember an object-oriented kernel from microsoft back in 2001 or something, but i guess that was that singularity project | 16:50 |
| aquatix | was way too slow ;) | 16:50 |
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| lcuk | yer, anyway i best be goin | 16:50 |
| lcuk | back later | 16:50 |
| aquatix | laters | 16:51 |
| * aquatix should code | 16:51 | |
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| Veggen | Have you noticed that everyone have already forgotten what a mess Vista development was, and how it ended, and are starting to talk about how Windows 7 is going to be the best OS ever? | 16:51 |
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| aquatix | Veggen: marketing++ | 16:51 |
| Veggen | I seriously thought that'd not be possible again for Microsoft after Vista, but I was wrong. | 16:52 |
| aquatix | hell, win98 was the best OS ever | 16:52 |
| aquatix | according to them | 16:52 |
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| lardman | re | 16:56 |
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| RST38h | it was, true | 17:01 |
| RST38h | win98 is still the best Windows ever =) | 17:01 |
| aquatix | for a certain subkind of people | 17:01 |
| aquatix | not sure | 17:01 |
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| aquatix | win2k was ok-ish too | 17:01 |
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| usicow | I just flashed my n810, and when I use xterm and apt-get it asks me to become root.. so I use sudo (not to mention I cant remember why, but I didnt need to use sudo before I flashed). Whats the root password though? | 17:09 |
| usicow | or 'user' rather | 17:10 |
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| msh | c | 17:10 |
| ccooke | Anyone seen http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/aug08/6479/2 | 17:11 |
| ccooke | ? | 17:11 |
| ccooke | I thought it was going to be rather a lot of old hat at first, but they have some slightly novel ideas | 17:11 |
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| usicow | is there a becomeroot or something similar for Diablo? | 17:14 |
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| RST38h | usicow: afaik sudo won't work | 17:15 |
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| RST38h | usicow: the best way is to install ssh server/client and sshh localhost as root | 17:15 |
| usicow | hmm | 17:16 |
| usicow | thats a shame | 17:16 |
| RST38h | not really a shame | 17:16 |
| Mek_ | you can put your device in R&D mode and use 'sudo gainroot' | 17:16 |
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| RST38h | look at it as an opportunity to install very useful ssh tools | 17:16 |
| XTL | The memory card is not in use, damnit! | 17:17 |
| RST38h | ccoke: what they are doing sounds reasonable | 17:17 |
| RST38h | prolly not as much help as it sounds like, but reasonable | 17:18 |
| ccooke | RST38h: more than you might think. Bloody shame it's patented. | 17:18 |
| ccooke | but I suspect that a free alternative based on prior art could be developed. | 17:19 |
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| aloisioj1 | hi guys, i'm trying to edit maemo summit wiki page, but the preview shows a mess. Is it happenning the same with you guys? I can publish it anyway? | 17:25 |
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| Khertan | aloisioj1: are you logged ? | 17:30 |
| aloisioj1 | Khertan: yes... i can edit, preview and publish | 17:31 |
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| aloisioj1 | but when i preview, the page shown is totally wrong (regarding page format).. i'm afraid of publish that... | 17:33 |
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| aloisioj1 | i just change 1 sentence... it's a little change... | 17:33 |
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| JamieBennett | is the wiki down? | 17:52 |
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| Tu13es | how much are used n800's going for these days? | 18:09 |
| ||cw | check ebay? | 18:11 |
| RST38h | ccooke: you cant really patent such stuff, I think | 18:11 |
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| ccooke | RST38h: hah. I wish. | 18:12 |
| RST38h | it is too easy to od a little bit differently | 18:13 |
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| Khertan | thinkgeek ... really funny capture ... | 18:22 |
| Khertan | http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/tools/917f/?cpg=ab | 18:22 |
| Khertan | look ... i like seeing a geek try to remove a wheel with the cache | 18:23 |
| Khertan | :) | 18:23 |
| Khertan | s/try/trying | 18:23 |
| crashanddie | Khertan, you're submitting pictures to thinkgeek | 18:23 |
| lardman | I hope he uses a longer bar to tighten those wheel nuts | 18:23 |
| crashanddie | erhm | 18:23 |
| crashanddie | "he's" | 18:23 |
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| crashanddie | That's about as geek as it gets | 18:24 |
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| lardman | unless he has very strong wrists that is | 18:24 |
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| crashanddie | http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/tools/6d98/ | 18:24 |
| crashanddie | Terror-Key ! | 18:25 |
| lardman | Titanium Spork sounds more terrific | 18:26 |
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| Khertan | lol google translate "enjoliveur" in french by wheel in english | 18:28 |
| Khertan | not really the same things | 18:28 |
| Grackle_ | lcuk, for some reason I had never paid any attention to liqbase.. I tried your demo out last night. I really like the book reader. The performance issue is strange. | 18:29 |
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| juke_ | hi | 18:30 |
| lardman | Khertan: hub cap? | 18:30 |
| juke_ | can i flash firmware without cable ? | 18:32 |
| XTL | http://www.atwoodknives.com/ | 18:32 |
| Khertan | lardman: ? hum don't know | 18:32 |
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| XTL | http://dictionary.reverso.net/french-english/enjoliveur | 18:33 |
| Khertan | http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/pict/2502838722838080_1.jpg | 18:33 |
| Khertan | like that :) | 18:33 |
| Khertan | hum ... reverso seems to be a better translator than google | 18:34 |
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| Khertan | just a stupid idea ... does the wifi on the nokia is more efficient in one direction than an other ... | 18:39 |
| * Khertan thinking of a wifi detector ... | 18:40 | |
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| lcuk | Grackle_, what do you mean the performance issue? | 18:41 |
| lardman | cu chaps | 18:42 |
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| lcuk | cya lard | 18:42 |
| lcuk | khertan, i think the gps is directional | 18:42 |
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| lcuk | from the nokia instruction manual for gps (this model is embedded in a sword shaped case) you must hold aloft your mighty n810 and shout "by the power of greyskull" http://www.he-man.org/news_images/heman.jpg | 18:44 |
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| Grackle_ | lcuk, optimization issue, rather. The fact that the ondemand speed governor does not scale up to meet the demand of the optimized smooth scrolling code. | 18:47 |
| lcuk | yes, it was very annoying, there has been some changes since i got diablo, but the effect isstill there - though now a new problem has crept in: in powersave mode, it clocks itself up and speeds up when user touching device | 18:48 |
| lcuk | it throws out all sorts of tests i make expecting the cpu to be at a slow stable frequency | 18:49 |
| lcuk | do you like the little you have seen of liqbase though | 18:49 |
| Khertan | lcuk: yep but gps don't help to know the distance between a point of a wifi ap | 18:50 |
| Khertan | :) | 18:50 |
| Khertan | at an instant time | 18:50 |
| Khertan | leaving work ... see you tomorrow ... bye | 18:51 |
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| lcuk | i gotta go as well, back later | 18:52 |
| Grackle_ | I like it very much. I definitely like the reader (though I wish there was a way to pause it or change the speed dynamically (perhaps using the -/+ buttons?), and I like the large finger friendly UI. The note taking program is neat, but I don't think it's something that I would use. | 18:52 |
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| Khertan_n810 | lol iphone top downloaded app iPint | 18:59 |
| Khertan_n810 | simulate drinking a beer | 19:00 |
| * Khertan_n810 is thinking of writing a pseudo accelerometer by using the webcam | 19:01 | |
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| XTL | Do it with the gps | 19:05 |
| RST38h | Khertan: Yes please! | 19:07 |
| derf | Do it with both, with a nice Kalman filter mediating the process. | 19:09 |
| Grackle_ | Mine has a pretty fancy accelerometer feature built in. No modifications necessary. | 19:10 |
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| Grackle_ | If it undergoes a force of over 10G, It shuts off. | 19:10 |
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| * Grackle_ drops it on the floor | 19:10 | |
| Grackle_ | I've only tested it once, luckily. | 19:11 |
| juke_ | can i flash firmware without cable ? | 19:15 |
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| Khertan_n810 | bye | 19:18 |
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| XTL | juke_: Sort of, through the ssu methods. But not really. | 19:19 |
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| XTL | (afaik) | 19:19 |
| juke_ | because i loose my datacable | 19:20 |
| Grackle_ | juke_, it's a standard USB A to mini-B cable. They | 19:24 |
| Grackle_ | gah | 19:24 |
| Grackle_ | They're used for cell phones and PDAs and mp3 players and such | 19:24 |
| XTL | micro-B, isn't it? | 19:24 |
| XTL | Mini-B is actually common | 19:24 |
| Grackle_ | It would probably be easiest just to go to a store and get a new one | 19:24 |
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| Grackle_ | I'm pretty sure it's mini B, not micro B | 19:25 |
| Grackle_ | Unless the N810 has a different plug than the N800 | 19:25 |
| qwerty12 | The port differs on the N810 | 19:25 |
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| Grackle_ | Oh, ok. | 19:25 |
| XTL | N810 has micro B. I don't know 800 :) | 19:26 |
| juke_ | it's a n810 | 19:26 |
| Grackle_ | The N80 has a mini-B | 19:26 |
| bstock | 800 and 770 are standard mini ports, the 810 has an uncommon one | 19:26 |
| Grackle_ | juke_, you could probably get a replacement cable at a cell phone shop. | 19:26 |
| Grackle_ | Assuming it is micro-B | 19:26 |
| bstock | http://www.intomobile.com/2007/05/27/picture-mini-vs-micro-usb.html | 19:27 |
| Grackle_ | wikipedia tells me it's a micro-B | 19:27 |
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| juke_ | ok thx | 19:27 |
| Mek | isn't the n810 a micor-AB? | 19:31 |
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| juke_ | how can i get my phone book (on my phone) with my tablet ? | 19:38 |
| juke_ | it's ok for dial or sms | 19:38 |
| juke_ | s/or/for | 19:38 |
| lbt | Evening all :) .... anyway, I was sitting here working this afternoon; logged into my laptop using a IPSec tunnel over ADSL to connect to work; my phone was popping up messages using bluetooth trigger; my tablet was quietly snoozing and my various linux servers were doing their thing.... so, at 4 o'clock I had a conference call. And how, in the midst of all this tec, did I know when it was 4 o'clock? The church bell chimed... and my wife said | 19:40 |
| lbt | "Haven't you got a call now?"...... | 19:41 |
| bstock | was that supposed to be funny? | 19:41 |
| lbt | not funny - but it made me think about the mix of hi+lo tec | 19:42 |
| bstock | most of that has nothing to do with time | 19:42 |
| lbt | and how the simple chime was still useful | 19:42 |
| bstock | could have just set an alarm on a phone | 19:43 |
| lbt | no - but they all do lots of time things; my PVR boots itself up when it needs to record etc | 19:43 |
| lbt | No kidding, phones have alarms now -- who knew? | 19:43 |
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| lbt | anyhow - feel free to ignore me | 19:44 |
| bstock | ;) | 19:44 |
| CptLaptop | anyone know ca how long the n800s battery last for something simple as xterm, online mode? | 19:45 |
| bstock | if you're connected to wlan for the whole time prob only a few hours | 19:46 |
| CptLaptop | i think more than that. i get about 5 for casual surfing and such, just never used xterm | 19:46 |
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| bstock | hmm really? my 810 doesn't seem to last that long | 19:47 |
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| bstock | though i never really tried to optimize battery life | 19:47 |
| CptLaptop | by casual i mean i sit at schol, leaving pidgin open, surf occasionally | 19:47 |
| bstock | well xterm shouldn't use too much cpu, so most the batt would be used by screen and wireless, so you'd prob get about the same, maybe a little longer then surfing | 19:49 |
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| crashanddie | lbt, djeezus, phones have alarms ? Good God... Technology never stops, does it... Imagine, in a few years, we might even have devices that fit in the palm of our hand, and, I know this might sound quite silly, but imagine that we'd be able to use them to interact with a computer far away... | 20:07 |
| RST38h | Or, rather, the computer far away will use our cool future phones to keep tabs on us... | 20:08 |
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| crashanddie | CptLaptop, pidgin will drain the battery quite a lot, it's quite a CPU slut, though xterm, depending on the app it's running, shouldn't be a problem | 20:09 |
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| crashanddie | CptLaptop, what drains the most is obviously CPU use and the screen | 20:09 |
| Mek | don't the various radios also use quite some power? | 20:09 |
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| lbt | crashanddie: and one day they'll invent something to make a noise at regular intervals so we can keep track | 20:10 |
| lbt | but it won't be called alarmd !! | 20:10 |
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| mavhc | is it bad to remote desktop to my pc because I can't be arsed to replace the batteries in my wireless keyboard? | 20:16 |
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| mgedmin | no | 20:22 |
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| mgedmin | it's good, actually | 20:22 |
| lbt | http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2008/08/27/a-real-space-oddity-arrives-at-pc-pro/ | 20:22 |
| mgedmin | gives you 5 extra points for your geek creds | 20:22 |
| lbt | a 2"-a-side cube running linux... | 20:23 |
| lbt | I'm reading it and thinking - "have you never seen a Nxx0" | 20:23 |
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| Thus0 | hello there | 20:25 |
| Thus0 | I've just bough a N770 | 20:25 |
| Thus0 | I'm discovering maemo :) | 20:25 |
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| usicow | whats the best app for changing the usb port to host mode? | 20:33 |
| Kegetys | echo :) | 20:34 |
| Grackle_ | usicow, install maemo-control-usb, it will give you a control panel that will let you do that | 20:36 |
| qwerty12_N800 | it does remove g_storage however and insmod's g_ether which is not what you always want | 20:39 |
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| Grackle_ | Speaking of g_ether, can the internet tablet be used as a network bridge? | 20:39 |
| Grackle_ | Because that would be really handy. | 20:39 |
| * qwerty12_N800 uses usbcontrol and usb-otg-plugin for usb switching | 20:40 | |
| Grackle_ | Oh wait, I have ssh installed, I could just use that. | 20:42 |
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| Binky | Ok, I am... well I'll explain | 21:01 |
| Binky | Can someone tell me if my 770 died? | 21:01 |
| qwerty12_N800 | is the screen white? | 21:02 |
| Binky | Is not WSOD. It's only that it won't turn on. | 21:02 |
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| Veggen | Binky: battery all flat? | 21:02 |
| Binky | Battery what (Don't use expressions, I'm spanish and my english is bad) | 21:02 |
| Binky | It was full- | 21:02 |
| Veggen | if so, it often helps to just leave it in with the charger for quite a while, I think.. | 21:02 |
| Binky | And i charged it about 2 or 3 hours | 21:02 |
| Veggen | hum. then it shouldn't be battery either. | 21:03 |
| Binky | Also, I tried to connect to USB and trying USB + Home. It didn't work. | 21:03 |
| Veggen | exactly how doesn't it turn on? No reaction at all? | 21:03 |
| Binky | Nothing. It does absolutely nothing. | 21:03 |
| Veggen | hmm. Well. You could always, perhaps, try another battery. | 21:04 |
| Binky | I was thinking of removing the battery, but if i fix it and it turns on, it may cause WSOD. | 21:04 |
| Veggen | (I guess a decent Nokia shop would let you try before you buy) | 21:04 |
| Binky | Veggen, I will | 21:04 |
| Binky | And I tried to turn on with MMC inserted, removed and with the door opened (which is nonsense) | 21:05 |
| Binky | Should I try removing the battery and inserting it? | 21:05 |
| Grackle_ | I don't like the fact that utilities and settings are in different menus. The difference is ambiguous. | 21:05 |
| * Grackle_ never knows which one to look in when he wants to change something | 21:05 | |
| Binky | Grackle_, in spanish it is tools and utilities, it's almost the same, lol | 21:06 |
| mavhc | does the n770 suffer from the same "won't turn on unless in the fridge" problem the n810 does? | 21:06 |
| Grackle_ | what o.o | 21:06 |
| Binky | mavhc, that may be the biggest WTF ever. | 21:06 |
| mavhc | my n810 did that, I turned it off to upgrade to diablo and it wouldn't turn on until I left it in the fridge for 15 minutes (in a bag) | 21:07 |
| mavhc | since the upgrade it's been fine | 21:08 |
| Binky | I can't upgrade it though | 21:08 |
| lcuk | mavhc, that sounds cargo cultish - chances are it wouldv switched on itself after 15minutes | 21:08 |
| mavhc | it's a known thing, something to do with the temp sensor perhaps, I dunno | 21:09 |
| lcuk | hjang on a minute, ill carry on this convo after i get gps connected | 21:09 |
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| mavhc | I tried everything else for 24 hours, charged up, took the battery out for 12 hours, etc, etc | 21:09 |
| * lcuk stands on one leg facing north with the wind in his face ontop of a building with a clear view of the sky | 21:10 | |
| mavhc | in the end I did the crazy "this'll never work" solution | 21:10 |
| mavhc | some kind of race condition according to nokia on bugzilla | 21:10 |
| lcuk | whatever works for ya i suppose | 21:10 |
| lcuk | nokia have the fridge as a recommended fix? | 21:11 |
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| cyrus___ | anyone have a good site for themes for maemo on nokia n810? | 21:11 |
| lcuk | maybe it does prefer to be in a cold environment - like being back at nokia home | 21:11 |
| lcuk | mavhc, where are you | 21:12 |
| andrewfblack | cyrus__ there is no good site for themes look around garage and itT is best I can say | 21:12 |
| cyrus___ | k | 21:12 |
| mavhc | perhaps it's programmed not to start if the temp is too high or something. UK | 21:12 |
| lcuk | lol - ok i can rule out extreme temps | 21:12 |
| andrewfblack | I have a few on a garage there are a few on maemo.org also | 21:12 |
| Binky | mavhc, it was noticeably hot. not too much. less than the hot it is when it's turned on, but more than it uses to be | 21:13 |
| Binky | anyway, in what kind of bag did you leave it? | 21:13 |
| mavhc | just a sealed plastic bag to stop condensation | 21:14 |
| mavhc | http://blog.homac.de/?p=58 | 21:15 |
| mavhc | seems to be a new hardware thing, so shouldn't be an n770 problem | 21:15 |
| cyrus___ | also, is it possible to have multiple desktops with a pager with maemo | 21:15 |
| Binky | my 770 I find that if you press the on/off button repeatedly followed by a final long press wakes the device up!! Also in my experience (on the 770) re-flashing the operating system can completely cure this problem. M | 21:16 |
| Binky | (it is a comment on a blog) | 21:17 |
| Binky | didn't worked | 21:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, I don't think he's posted them anywhere, but I'm sure he'll toss them your way (or post them) if you ask. | 21:19 |
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| * GeneralAntilles sighs. http://slexy.org/view/s212RbvWlu | 21:21 | |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, LMAO | 21:21 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, who sent that ? | 21:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Some itT noob | 21:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | I get PMs like that rather frequently. | 21:22 |
| mavhc | as a General you should delgate | 21:22 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I'm going to forward them all to geneven. | 21:22 |
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| andrewfblack | GA just tell him to go search :) | 21:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | The new mailing lists forums are available | 21:24 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Not in love with the layout | 21:24 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, answer something along the lines "This is Lieutenant Konstam. General Antilles can not answer this Private Message at the moment, but he will be advised you have tried to get in touch with him. Thank you for contacting the United States Army. For the record, this is communication AD2748B80Y. Discussion terminated" | 21:26 |
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| crashanddie | "Emma t'es belle et ma copine elle t'aime pas, Emma t'es bonne et ma pile va bientot claquer, Emma t'es froide comme le carrelage de mes WC, Emma t'es vraiment 1000 fois plus belle que Tara" | 21:30 |
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| Mikho | I have an inheritance-related destructor problem | 21:32 |
| crashanddie | Mikho, go for it | 21:32 |
| crashanddie | Mikho, C++ ? | 21:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm just gonna ignore it, and may roll around to replying with a google search if I'm feeling generous. | 21:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | I know for a fact that particular topic has been covered quite frequently on itT. | 21:32 |
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| Mikho | In C++. Lets say I have classes A and B, where A is the base and B is derived from A | 21:32 |
| Mikho | B has a virtual destructor and some virtual abstract functions | 21:33 |
| andrewfblack | GA you need to learn to look stupid on the forums so people stop asking you questioins | 21:33 |
| lcuk | Mikho, as long as you agive me 20% of your will, ill cure your inheritence problem | 21:33 |
| lcuk | evenin crashanddie | 21:34 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, I think andrewfblack is right, you should get your inspiration from lcuk | 21:34 |
| Mikho | let's say a B object is about to die, and has finished running the B destructor | 21:34 |
| Veggen | GA: Unfortunately, this is partly the reason why people see Linux people as "arrogant" and unwilling to help. They expect that someone is gonna spoon-feed them everything. | 21:34 |
| lcuk | .|.. | 21:34 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, <3 | 21:34 |
| crashanddie | evening lcuk :) | 21:34 |
| * lcuk has alpha blended goodness | 21:34 | |
| Veggen | And sometimes, they just hit you on a plain unlucky day when too many people like that has already ruined your helpfulness :) | 21:35 |
| crashanddie | Mikho, ok, and, what's the problem ? | 21:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | rm_you, ping. | 21:35 |
| Mikho | A has some code to unregister the class from a database in another thread | 21:35 |
| crashanddie | Mikho, keep going, you've nearly explained the whole problem | 21:36 |
| baaba | are you just a really slow typist or are you thinking this up as you go? :P | 21:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Veggen, that's most days these days. :( | 21:36 |
| crashanddie | baaba, if he's that slow, I wouldn't want to hire him a C++ coder :P | 21:37 |
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| crashanddie | s/a/as a/ | 21:37 |
| infobot | crashanddie meant: bas aaba, if he's that slow, I wouldn't want to hire him a C++ coder :P | 21:37 |
| crashanddie | FUCK | 21:37 |
| baaba | haha | 21:37 |
| andrewfblack | GeneralAntilles I get half your rejects I think. I get a few PMs a week with something like I have a question I didn't was to ask in open forum becuae I did't want to be told to just search for it | 21:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | I need to setup a shortcut for osso-software-version-rx*4 | 21:38 |
| Mikho | let's say, before destructor A has completed, what happens if another thread uses some of the virtual abstract functions presented in class A, but defined in class B? | 21:38 |
| lcuk | i hope you told them to just search for it | 21:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | I type it way too much and it's way too damn long. | 21:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, I haven't told them anything. | 21:38 |
| Mikho | sorry, this is complicated | 21:38 |
| baaba | Mikho, nasal demons | 21:38 |
| andrewfblack | lcuk well that would defeat my arguments about telling people to just search. I just delete the stupid one :) | 21:39 |
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| Veggen | andrew: It's ok to say that you have searched for it, and that it told me to do this and that, but I didn't understand. That's constructive criticism on documentation. | 21:39 |
| Mikho | I'd like to know if the functions in class B are available for running even though the destructor has completed for that class | 21:39 |
| baaba | Mikho, no; as i said, you get nasal demons | 21:39 |
| baaba | that is to say, undefined behavior | 21:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Veggen, whenever the topic comes up, I ask that people mentioned whether they've tried to search and failed, or searched and found something they didn't understand. | 21:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | THEN I have the patience to help. | 21:40 |
| Veggen | hmmf. Someone hit me. I'm conteplating writing something in mono. | 21:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Because they've put forward some effort to match mine. | 21:40 |
| lcuk | Mikho, if you throw your food into a bin is it wise to dive back in to carry on eating? | 21:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~smack Veggen | 21:40 |
| baaba | which means the implementation is free to do anything, including making demons fly out of your nose | 21:40 |
| * infobot smacks Veggen upside the head. | 21:40 | |
| Veggen | GA: exactly. | 21:40 |
| Mikho | what= | 21:41 |
| Mikho | ? | 21:41 |
| crashanddie | Mikho, semaphores will solve that problem, and most of the time, you're going to get a segfault | 21:41 |
| lcuk | veggen, nothing wrong with mono - which color though, black/white or green/black? | 21:41 |
| crashanddie | Mikho, well, hopefully you're going to get a segfault, actually | 21:41 |
| Veggen | ok. Reason I want mono, is that it's an f-spot plugin. I want a plugin that interfaces to my scout-groups publishing system and uploads pictures, marked with the correct event etc... | 21:41 |
| baaba | Mikho, the c++ standard has a number of things that it defines no semantics for, which are denoted as "undefined behavior" | 21:41 |
| lcuk | MikaT, dont touch things that have been destroyed | 21:41 |
| baaba | Mikho, such as dereferencing a null pointer | 21:41 |
| Veggen | and f-spot is written in mono, so that's of course the case for plugins too. | 21:41 |
| baaba | Mikho, in these cases your c++ implementation is free to cause anything at all to happen and still be standard | 21:42 |
| Mikho | I mean, won't all memory get freed only after all destructors have completed? | 21:42 |
| crashanddie | Mikho, but if you want the real explanation, destructors for a base class are called automatically in the reverse order of the constructors. That is, if the base class destructor isn't declared virtual | 21:42 |
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| Veggen | there exists such plugins for f-spot, gallery2 etc. Just need to take one of them, I guess, and study as example... | 21:42 |
| Veggen | eh, for flickr, gallery2 etc. | 21:43 |
| baaba | Mikho, sure, but the point is that there's no guarantee it'll ever work | 21:43 |
| baaba | it _might_ work | 21:43 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, you know the physics view on liqbase -> it now works with all jpeg images and scales and moves and views with 50% alpha :) | 21:43 |
| lcuk | and its just as quick | 21:43 |
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| Mikho | I was wondering if I could use mutexes to make the class A destructor wait until the other thread has finished doing stuff in class B methods | 21:43 |
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| baaba | but it's absolutely not guaranteed, and whether it works might change depending on among other things: the compiler used, compiler flags, whether there's a black cat on your windowpane, the alignment of the solar system etc | 21:44 |
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| lcuk | Mikho, just stop killing your objects whilst you are using them | 21:44 |
| baaba | in general making objects responsible for themselves like that is not a very good idea | 21:44 |
| crashanddie | note to self, don't ctrl + x in x-chat | 21:44 |
| lcuk | you dont kill the maid until shes finished cleaning the room | 21:44 |
| baaba | it creates very messy program logic | 21:44 |
| baaba | as you're experiencing right now | 21:44 |
| lcuk | lol crash :P | 21:44 |
| * lcuk repeats | 21:45 | |
| lcuk | crashanddie, you know the physics view on liqbase -> it now works with all jpeg images and scales and moves and views with 50% alpha :) | 21:45 |
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| lcuk | hmmm | 21:45 |
| Mikho | it would be very nice if I could remove references to an object in databases in other threads, by just deleting the object | 21:45 |
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| lcuk | which word triggers you to close | 21:45 |
| crashanddie | ok, really not used to this | 21:45 |
| Mikho | I wonder if there's a workaround | 21:45 |
| crashanddie | well, usually I type something, and when someone talks to me, and I want to reply, I shift + home, ctrl + x, answer, then after answering, ctrl + v and keep writing what I was saying | 21:46 |
| crashanddie | but now that I've fiddled with the keyboard settings, xchat closes on ctrl+x | 21:46 |
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| Mikho | crashanddie, do you mean the order is different if the base class destructor is virtual= | 21:47 |
| baaba | Mikho, your objects need to have clearly defined ownership; the owner manages all that | 21:47 |
| baaba | the owner also removes the object from any such databases and _then_ destroys it | 21:48 |
| baaba | Mikho, no, order of destruction is not different with virtual destructors | 21:48 |
| Mikho | well I guess that's how it's meant | 21:48 |
| baaba | when you have a class with bases, the destructor of that class calls the destructors of its bases | 21:49 |
| baaba | and they call the destructors of their bases etc | 21:49 |
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| baaba | what the virtual destructor part does, is exactly like with any virtual function - it finds the most derived implementation through a reference (or pointer) to base | 21:49 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk, sounds awesome, when are you going to release a sneak-peak ? | 21:50 |
| crashanddie | baaba, in fact, order is different, because the base destructor isn't called | 21:50 |
| Mikho | well, I think most virtual functions don't call the base implementations... | 21:51 |
| baaba | well no, that part is different :) | 21:51 |
| baaba | but the lookup is the same as with any other virtual function | 21:51 |
| lcuk | in about 3 weeks fully - im getting the search finished (ive created a very nice recursive results pane). ill need some help in the run up though :) | 21:51 |
| baaba | crashanddie, isn't called? | 21:51 |
| lcuk | ie beta testing ;) | 21:51 |
| crashanddie | baaba, nope | 21:51 |
| baaba | yes it is | 21:51 |
| crashanddie | baaba, err | 21:51 |
| baaba | every object including base sub-objects of other objects is destroyed | 21:52 |
| lcuk | cant someone just setup a tiny project with a few classes and cout's to prove each others case | 21:52 |
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| crashanddie | baaba, class A { public: A(); virtual ~A() = 0; }; class B : A { public: B(); ~B() }; //you're going to tell me ~A() is called ? | 21:52 |
| baaba | crashanddie, no, because that will yield a linker error | 21:53 |
| baaba | namely, A::~A() is not defined | 21:53 |
| Mikho | does this depend on whether you call delete Aobject or Bobject? | 21:53 |
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| baaba | if you have a virtual destructor in A, it doesn't; if you don't have a virtual destructor in A, it does | 21:54 |
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| Mikho | and I believe an abstract virtual destructor must have a body | 21:54 |
| baaba | crashanddie, however, if you add a definition then it will link and will be called | 21:54 |
| khertan_ | Hi ! | 21:54 |
| baaba | correct, it must | 21:54 |
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| crashanddie | baaba, you lost me there | 21:54 |
| crashanddie | anyway | 21:54 |
| * Khertan_at_home is building gnome-online-desktop ... a bit long | 21:54 | |
| * lcuk is building liqbase on his laptop | 21:55 | |
| crashanddie | Mikho, make your program thread-safe | 21:55 |
| Mikho | sigh, I guess I'll just have to resort to always remember to call unregister before delete | 21:55 |
| crashanddie | End of story | 21:55 |
| baaba | crashanddie, where exactly? | 21:55 |
| baaba | i'll explain it | 21:55 |
| Khertan_at_home | lcuk: you don't build it anymore on your n810 ? | 21:55 |
| baaba | because this is pretty damn crucial for understanding c++ | 21:55 |
| crashanddie | baaba, lemme compile/test a few things | 21:55 |
| Mikho | yes, I'm working hard to make my program thread-safe | 21:55 |
| lcuk | Khertan_at_home, sorry, my mistake: im building it FOR my laptop | 21:55 |
| Khertan_at_home | ah :) | 21:55 |
| baaba | crashanddie, look, in c++, every object has a lifetime | 21:56 |
| baaba | crashanddie, a base sub-object is a _separate object_ | 21:56 |
| baaba | when you have struct A {}; struct B : A {}; B b; | 21:56 |
| baaba | b consists of two objects | 21:56 |
| Mikho | a separate object? Didn't know that one | 21:56 |
| baaba | on the creation of 'b' two constructors will be run, and on its destruction two destructors will be run | 21:56 |
| crashanddie | baaba, yes, I know, when instantiating B, it is of type A before becoming of type B | 21:56 |
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| baaba | nothing "becomes" in c++ | 21:57 |
| lcuk | where can i download a lot of jpegs from automatically | 21:57 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, google images | 21:57 |
| crashanddie | baaba, oh you bloody pedantic C++ nitpickers | 21:58 |
| baaba | this is hardly pedantic nitpickery | 21:58 |
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| baaba | i mean jesus you have to know what happens when your destructors are run don't you? | 21:58 |
| baaba | that's a pretty fundamental part of c++ | 21:58 |
| * GeneralAntilles starts poking crashanddie and baaba with sharpened sticks. | 21:59 | |
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| crashanddie | baaba, you're the one thinking I don't know what happens, now please go back playing with your lego bricks | 22:00 |
| baaba | by claiming that the base destructor doesn't get run, you showed that you don't know what happens | 22:00 |
| baaba | unless that was an intentional lie | 22:00 |
| * sp3000 giggles | 22:01 | |
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| Mikho | I didn't mean this to get this serious :) | 22:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mikho, there's no telling what sort of craziness questions like that will spawn. ;) | 22:02 |
| Mikho | hrmm... now I wonder what operator delete does... | 22:02 |
| baaba | operator delete is the memory deallocation function that is invoked by a delete-expression | 22:03 |
| Mousey | what's a destructor? what's an operator? | 22:03 |
| Mikho | maybe I could accomplish some pure C++ evil with it | 22:03 |
| * Mousey ducks! | 22:03 | |
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| sp3000 | Mousey: destructor is a bot; an operator controls it | 22:03 |
| baaba | when you have P* p; /* ... */ delete p; it's roughly equivalent to: { /* destructor call: */ p->~P(); /* memory deallocation: */ operator delete(p); } | 22:04 |
| sp3000 | they roam the countryside, harassing cattle and small rodents. | 22:04 |
| baaba | (only roughly, because the lookup for the actual operator delete is a bit more complicated) | 22:04 |
| Mikho | argh, so I can't have a pre-destructor call associated with delete | 22:05 |
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| baaba | oh and of course, it first checks whether p is null, and does nothing if so :) | 22:06 |
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| Mikho | so, am I right if I say nothing has been freed or deleted in the beginning of derived class destructor call, and the derived object's functions are still free to be called from other threads? | 22:08 |
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| Anunakin | any knows like resolve... a error with fonts and GTK on maemo? | 22:09 |
| Anunakin | Unknown font: -adobe-times-bold-r-normal--*-%s0-*-*-p-*-iso8859-1 I'll use fixed | 22:09 |
| baaba | Mikho, no | 22:10 |
| Mikho | I'm wrong? | 22:11 |
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| crashanddie | baaba, ok, I'm confused here. Trust me, I really am. I was pointing out that if you have class A; and class B : A;, and A * ptr = new B; you need to have virtual ~A, if you want ~B to be called. | 22:12 |
| baaba | yeah you do | 22:12 |
| crashanddie | Ok, then we're settled | 22:12 |
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| * moontiger reads | 22:13 | |
| moontiger | really? | 22:13 |
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| baaba | well, you could do delete static_cast<B*>(ptr); and in that case you wouldn't need it :) | 22:14 |
| moontiger | oh right | 22:14 |
| moontiger | got it | 22:14 |
| baaba | but delete ptr; would need it | 22:14 |
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| moontiger | if ~A is not virtual it wont be over-ridden in B | 22:14 |
| baaba | destructors don't behave like normal functions, but destructor lookup does behave like normal functions | 22:15 |
| moontiger | baaba, wouldnt the static cast technically break things? | 22:15 |
| baaba | no | 22:15 |
| moontiger | oh wait i see | 22:16 |
| Mikho | baaba, did you mean "no, you're wrong, you can't call B's functions even if the destructor is only in the beginning of the call" or "no, nothing has been deleted yet, so you're free to do your stuff" | 22:16 |
| baaba | in this case, it's known that the type of the object is B | 22:16 |
| moontiger | right | 22:16 |
| baaba | Mikho, can't call | 22:16 |
| moontiger | and the destructor part you're interested in is in A which is common | 22:16 |
| Mikho | I can't see why not... | 22:16 |
| baaba | Mikho, err, sorry, you're talking about the derived destructor | 22:16 |
| Mikho | yes | 22:17 |
| baaba | during destruction .. hmm | 22:17 |
| * moontiger shuts up and lets the conversation continue | 22:17 | |
| baaba | i'm not actually sure about that | 22:17 |
| baaba | during construction, you _can_ call member functions (with some restrictions) | 22:17 |
| baaba | but i'm not sure about destruction, let me check | 22:17 |
| Mikho | I thought about assaulting c++ coding principles by adding a separate cleaning function in every derived classes destructor | 22:17 |
| baaba | that sounds kind of bad :) | 22:18 |
| Mikho | indeed >) | 22:18 |
| Mikho | :) | 22:18 |
| moontiger | mikho ... if you want to make the assault proper make the cleaner static :) | 22:18 |
| baaba | really you should try to work it such that you have a clearly defined owner for the object | 22:18 |
| baaba | which first removes it from any databases etc and then just destroys it | 22:18 |
| baaba | objects should never own themselves | 22:19 |
| Mikho | it has an owner, but I'd like to have other threads calling its functions at times | 22:19 |
| baaba | yeah but the point was that you can request the owner to remove and destroy the object | 22:19 |
| baaba | and the owner first removes any referemces to it and then destroys it | 22:19 |
| baaba | (and similarly for creation) | 22:20 |
| baaba | *references | 22:20 |
| Mikho | hmm | 22:20 |
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| Mikho | it'd be nice to just new and delete away objects, having a distant parent class arranging all the references to other threads | 22:22 |
| baaba | no it wouldn't :P | 22:22 |
| Mikho | it's hassle to ask the owner for the objects, and ask again to destroy them | 22:23 |
| Mikho | oh well | 22:23 |
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| baaba | it's a hassle trying to reason about a program with messy semantics | 22:23 |
| dustin | Hi everyone. I am building a Adobe Flex 3 application for a Maemo device but am running into performance problems. Does anyone know of way to access the Flash player outside of the web browser? | 22:23 |
| lcuk | Mikho, if your implimentation is messy you will run into problems such as you have - sit down and design the interface cleanly and in a thread safe manner using mutexes where required, or use a manager class to handle the object lifetimes | 22:27 |
| Khertan_at_home | ncurse should be the only one interface | 22:28 |
| Khertan_at_home | this way all is unified | 22:28 |
| lcuk | i prefer nurses | 22:29 |
| Mikho | I don't think it's that messy | 22:29 |
| Proteous | I prefer gypsies | 22:29 |
| Mikho | it would actually clean up the code pretty nice | 22:29 |
| lcuk | gypsies arent always clean | 22:29 |
| Proteous | true | 22:29 |
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| Proteous | I make them shower first | 22:29 |
| Proteous | and make sure they use soap | 22:30 |
| lcuk | agreed, ok clean post-showered gypsies are on par with a nurse in uniform | 22:30 |
| lcuk | (or out of uniform) | 22:30 |
| lcuk | any more preconditions or alterations to this fantasy? | 22:31 |
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| Proteous | yeah, the scrubs have to be free of vomit and blood | 22:32 |
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| Proteous | and/or | 22:32 |
| * moontiger laughs | 22:32 | |
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| * Khertan_at_home have any success building gnome-online-desktop | 22:34 | |
| * Proteous to be asking Khertan_at_home speak ways of understanding you | 22:34 | |
| lcuk | heh | 22:35 |
| * Khertan_at_home ask to Proteous : gniéé ? | 22:36 | |
| Khertan_at_home | http://live.gnome.org/OnlineDesktop | 22:37 |
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| usicow | where can I get subversion for diablo? | 22:39 |
| usicow | ahh. from chinook extras | 22:40 |
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| Khertan_at_home | hum ... it seems that Ubuntu ME will use modest ... | 22:47 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Are they really? | 22:51 |
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| Proteous | I use Ubuntu XP | 22:53 |
| Proteous | Ubuntu ME is so 1998 | 22:53 |
| moontiger | hahaha | 22:54 |
| moontiger | i cant believe they are going to use modest tho | 22:54 |
| moontiger | well maybe it will get some serious love and attention | 22:54 |
| moontiger | and get better | 22:54 |
| moontiger | :) | 22:54 |
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| yacoob | 'Ubuntu Me' sounds like asking for a kink | 22:55 |
| mavhc | don't worry, root access is disabled by default | 22:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's nothing wrong with Modest that can't be explained by immaturity. :) | 22:56 |
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| * yacoob wants magic pixie dust to sprinkle over ermining, and have it Ready And Without Bugs. | 22:57 | |
| lcuk | yer, GeneralAntilles after you're first time you get ubuntu'd your modesty will be all gone | 22:57 |
| moontiger | GeneralAntilles, i know ... i give it a hrad time but i havent actually written a better email app so i have respect for the guys ... just find it immature as you say :) | 23:00 |
| moontiger | yacoob, what do u need it for? | 23:00 |
| yacoob | gpe-gcal two way sync | 23:00 |
| moontiger | ahhhhhh 2 way sync | 23:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, immaturity and some over insistence on the "lightweight" side of things in some cases. | 23:01 |
| moontiger | are u tied to gpe-cal? | 23:01 |
| * yacoob suddenly notices that gpe doesn't support alarmd, loses interest. | 23:01 | |
| moontiger | yacoob, look at mcalendar by khertan ... and my lil mgcal (which is in early stages but useful) | 23:02 |
| * lcuk has 3 desktop apps in fulltime use at work that he thinks will be on maemo soon | 23:03 | |
| moontiger | lcuk, what are they? | 23:03 |
| flo_lap | yacoob: just help to add support for it | 23:03 |
| flo_lap | :-) | 23:03 |
| yacoob | flo_lap, I need some liquid time for this task, but I think it's doable 8) | 23:04 |
| flo_lap | alarmd is nice, but not portable in any way | 23:04 |
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| lcuk | tasks,whatareyoudoing,sched | 23:04 |
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| * lcuk wrote whatareyoudoing with a tablet in mind about 3 years ago.. | 23:05 | |
| flo_lap | yacoob: it should be quite easy indeed... the reason why we didn't do it is that gpe apps run on different devices as well but alarmd doesn't | 23:05 |
| lcuk | flo_lap, :) porting apps is annoying, im currently building liqbase for my laptop | 23:05 |
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| flo_lap | lcuk: depends on the apps - porting the gpe apps was quite easy | 23:06 |
| flo_lap | :) | 23:06 |
| lcuk | yer, but like the alarmd thing, one of the pressure sensitive things is specifically maemo | 23:07 |
| flo_lap | lcuk: Porting operating systems is real fun | 23:07 |
| lcuk | you win. | 23:07 |
| lcuk | :D | 23:07 |
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| yacoob | the problem I have as a newcomer with large part of maemo software is that you're not exactly able to tell is the project... dead? will it be developed? how stable it is? | 23:08 |
| yacoob | ...wait a second, that's just like with majority of the software! :D | 23:08 |
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| lcuk | yacoob, are you a linux n00b as well? | 23:08 |
| lcuk | or rather, linux-dev n00b | 23:09 |
| yacoob | the latter. | 23:09 |
| yacoob | I find much fun cracking a problem, but I lack the energy to actualy complete a project :) | 23:09 |
| lcuk | i basically started everything linux about 8 months ago.. | 23:09 |
| yacoob | which is very much a killer for anything that has gui and is supposed to be used by a wide audience :) | 23:10 |
| lcuk | and what you just said there is the reason i think why there are so many variations of the same program | 23:10 |
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| lcuk | no1 knows enough about anyone elses api to integrate cleanly - its only when teams get together | 23:10 |
| yacoob | so... we should get a big boat, a drummer, and a couple of whips. Row faster! *crack* | 23:11 |
| lbt | lcuk: saw you've done alpha - nice :) | 23:11 |
| keesj | hi | 23:11 |
| lcuk | which is where communitiesw help :) | 23:11 |
| lcuk | lbt, it was really simple - if i do a full 800*480 char by char mapping its obviously slower than normal blits | 23:12 |
| lcuk | but if i do smaller sections its not noticable :) but because of the rendering technique anyway its not really teary | 23:12 |
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| lcuk | it just slows down at the busy bits ;) | 23:12 |
| keesj | lcuk: how is the lib going? | 23:13 |
| lcuk | i notice by the way that canola does tiny little alpha bits on its buttons ;) | 23:13 |
| lbt | I really must checkout the code and go through it again - just been busy on other stuff | 23:13 |
| lbt | yes, I caught that earlier | 23:13 |
| lcuk | keesj, its going quite nicely actually, i can do everything i could do with sketches with actual real images and files now | 23:13 |
| lcuk | ive started to build the classes for a user interface and so can create recursive kinetic lists and grids | 23:13 |
| lcuk | but im not telling you the other stuff :) | 23:14 |
| Khertan_at_home | flo_lap: alarmd isn't nice ! you can't list alarm | 23:14 |
| Khertan_at_home | if you lost the alarm cookie you can't cancel it ! | 23:14 |
| Khertan_at_home | this is stupid | 23:14 |
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| flo_lap | Khertan_at_home: uh, that's clever indeed :/ | 23:15 |
| lcuk | lbt, im almost tempted to simply throw an rgb front end on this and shove it bodily into sdl | 23:15 |
| yacoob | Khertan_at_home, taking advantage of you being here - what are your plans for mCalendar? | 23:15 |
| keesj | well enjoy your secret :p | 23:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, do it! | 23:15 |
| lcuk | keesj :) i cant talk about everything im showing at the summit you know | 23:15 |
| flo_lap | Khertan_at_home: that's another disadvantage... we can;t fix it | 23:16 |
| Khertan_at_home | yacoob: make it the world most better calendar available on any mobile device ... :) | 23:16 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, ill be talking to people at the summit | 23:16 |
| keesj | cool , I plan to go there | 23:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, I hate you. :( | 23:16 |
| lcuk | i know :D | 23:16 |
| Khertan_at_home | yacoob: :) | 23:16 |
| yacoob | Khertan_at_home, ...but seriously, what's up next? ui changes, adding functionality, <hope>caldav/ical support</>? | 23:17 |
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| Khertan_at_home | my plan for mCalendar ... finishing syncing bug, render a bit better the gui, add a autosync feature | 23:17 |
| lcuk | ***WARNING SPOILERS*** | 23:17 |
| Khertan_at_home | and after that ... | 23:17 |
| * Proteous averts his eyes | 23:17 | |
| Khertan_at_home | maybe syncml ... | 23:17 |
| lcuk | Khertan_at_home, :) keep some stuff for the summit ;) | 23:17 |
| Khertan_at_home | i ll certainly not made caldav ... | 23:17 |
| Khertan_at_home | lcuk: héhé ... :) | 23:17 |
| yacoob | Khertan_at_home, why? | 23:17 |
| Khertan_at_home | yacoob: i don't like it :) | 23:18 |
| lcuk | has anyone seen my lighter? | 23:18 |
| Khertan_at_home | yacoob: a too complex thing to only do a calendar syncing ... and not really a good syncing protocol | 23:19 |
| Khertan_at_home | don't have a server or application that use it | 23:19 |
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| Khertan_at_home | but why wanting to use caldav ? | 23:19 |
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| flo_lap | Khertan_at_home: OpenSync? | 23:20 |
| Khertan_at_home | it s mainly an iThings ? | 23:20 |
| Khertan_at_home | flo_lap: opensync is a server not a protocol :) | 23:20 |
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| yacoob | and I agree, syncml would be nice. | 23:20 |
| flo_lap | Khertan_at_home: its not really a server, but it has the syncing logic | 23:21 |
| yacoob | although I have no bloody idea how things talk to each other when you synchronize them. | 23:21 |
| * Mousey seconds syncml | 23:21 | |
| yacoob | (ie. which one is client, which one server :) | 23:21 |
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| yacoob | to dig up on that - has anyone been using opensync on tablet for... well, anything sync-related? :) | 23:21 |
| flo_lap | yacoob: syncml is only a part of the problem - it helps with the transport only | 23:22 |
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| flo_lap | yacoob: I'm waiting for a stable release, but my intention is to use it for MaemoSync. | 23:23 |
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| Khertan_at_home | uname -a | 23:25 |
| flo_lap | Khertan_at_home: wrong terminal ;) | 23:28 |
| Khertan_at_home | yep :) | 23:30 |
| Khertan_at_home | http://www.openmobilealliance.org/tech/affiliates/syncml/syncmlindex.html | 23:30 |
| Khertan_at_home | how does they hope to see it implemented everywhere with spec like this ! | 23:30 |
| lbt | I installed kolab yesterday - FWIW :) | 23:30 |
| Khertan_at_home | and 404 everywhere | 23:30 |
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| lcuk | how do i undefine something as a compile time option - ie a parameter to the compiler | 23:37 |
| lbt | you mean !-DFRED | 23:38 |
| lcuk | ahhh yes i think so (since i use -DHELLO already - i didnt want to remove it from the line, just make sure its not on | 23:39 |
| lcuk | thanks | 23:39 |
| lbt | err, it isn't "!" | 23:39 |
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| lcuk | ahh lol | 23:40 |
| lbt | I was trying to understand :) | 23:40 |
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| lcuk | lbt ! you tease, ill just remove it but leave a comment in the makefile | 23:41 |
| lbt | I don't know of any other way | 23:41 |
| lcuk | i should really setup things as a target but im just getting it working now | 23:42 |
| lcuk | hrw gave me some tips a while ago and im ready to impliment them now so i can get ready for the summit :) | 23:42 |
| lbt | I got some fan mail about Shopper :D | 23:42 |
| lcuk | part of it involves me making sure i can build and use it on my laptop | 23:42 |
| lbt | heh! | 23:42 |
| lcuk | "NO MOAR CHEESE!" | 23:42 |
| Mousey | hey now | 23:42 |
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| lbt | we now have Cheese two point zero | 23:43 |
| Mousey | ooo | 23:43 |
| lcuk | nice, is there a pre-defined bacon section | 23:43 |
| lbt | indeed - extra stinky | 23:43 |
| lbt | OK | 23:43 |
| lbt | next release... | 23:43 |
| lcuk | :D | 23:43 |
| lbt | smoked? | 23:44 |
| lcuk | i personally think it would be really cool to walk around astore with video camera running and build up a 3d model of the shopping centre (do some barcodes as you go around) | 23:44 |
| lcuk | bacon is bacon | 23:44 |
| lcuk | lbt, i hope you can get barcode into your system | 23:45 |
| lbt | it's on the list | 23:45 |
| lcuk | :D a shopping list i hope | 23:45 |
| lbt | a long list | 23:45 |
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| lcuk | like me, ive spent god ages building up a toolkit | 23:46 |
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| lcuk | -god (was gonna put god knows how long but i know to the day..) | 23:46 |
| lbt | eek just found a bug - I don't escape/cleanse my XML | 23:46 |
| mavhc | lcuk: upload lots of the frames to photosynth type thing | 23:46 |
| lbt | yep - it says "FIXME" | 23:46 |
| lcuk | alright guys, lets hack the database | 23:46 |
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| lcuk | mavhc, yer the alog should work better with a movie than images - you KNOW its a sequence and can look for similarities in time | 23:47 |
| lcuk | alog? | 23:48 |
| lcuk | i dont even know what that means myself | 23:48 |
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| derf | lcuk: The technology is all well-understood, but doing it in real time on a tablet is pretty infeasible. | 23:48 |
| mavhc | to the cloud! | 23:49 |
| lcuk | derf, never said it would work, the only reason why i wanna do it with the tablet is barcode reading along the way | 23:49 |
| lcuk | record the movie and scan as you go along | 23:49 |
| lcuk | bring it home and produce a full map with products when you get home | 23:49 |
| lbt | can't do it without an accelerometer | 23:49 |
| derf | Yeah, if you want to build the model later on a PC with a powerful GPU or two, that's possible. | 23:50 |
| lbt | for reasons too technical to go into here | 23:50 |
| derf | It's a lot of work, though. | 23:50 |
| lcuk | sure you can - they have been doing it with crime scene reconstruction for years | 23:50 |
| lcuk | yer derf, but photosynth type programs are becoming common for home users | 23:50 |
| lcuk | we already stitch photos together - this is just an extension of that | 23:50 |
| derf | lcuk: Sure... because someone's done a lot of work to write the software. | 23:50 |
| lcuk | thats the way we roll :) open source ftw | 23:51 |
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| liri | I just saw wargames2 with the g/f | 23:51 |
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| derf | Many of the pieces are in vxl... but by no means everything you need. | 23:51 |
| liri | talk about bad sequels... that one should go out the window | 23:51 |
| lcuk | derf, was just a pie in the sky idea :) something may come of it, or nothing may come of it | 23:52 |
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| lcuk | someone might come along with enough talent and passion to want to build it - it might already be being done now in another irc channel | 23:52 |
| derf | I know basically _how_ to do it. | 23:53 |
| derf | But I've got enough on my plate. | 23:53 |
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| flo_lap | lcuk: add 'time' to the requirements ;) | 23:54 |
| lcuk | lol :D | 23:54 |
| lcuk | good point | 23:54 |
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| * GeneralAntilles is playing The Force Unleashed demo. | 23:56 | |
| liri | we should play Urban Terror | 23:57 |
| derf | Start with basic feature point detection, track features across frames, build up homography and as the baseline gets large enough fundamental matrix projection models, Link the fundamental matrices with trifocal tensors, triangulate to get 3-d homogeneous points, apply one of the standard metric calibration techniques to back out the projective ambiguity, look for overlapping paths, do bundle adjustment... | 23:57 |
| * Stskeeps takes away derf's brain implant | 23:58 | |
| flo_lap | :-) | 23:58 |
| * lbt admires Stskeeps' remote surgery skillz | 23:58 | |
| lcuk | derf :) what do you do for a living? | 23:59 |
| derf | I work for a defense contractor. | 23:59 |
| * lbt was impressed with derf until he screwed up on the the trifocal tensors... newbie error. | 23:59 | |
| *** Gracktop has joined #maemo | 23:59 | |
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