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| GeneralAntilles | Navi, easyroot and becomeroot are deprecated | 00:26 |
|---|---|---|
| GeneralAntilles | ~rootsh | 00:26 |
| infobot | methinks rootsh is an easy way to get root and it's found here: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/rootsh/ | 00:26 |
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| lopz | hola :) | 00:43 |
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| mavhc | is it me or does rootsh not add any of the /sbin type things to the path? | 00:54 |
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| toti_ | Hey, I'm trying to use a usb webcam with my N810, does anybody have any idea how to do that or ever did that | 01:11 |
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| moontiger | is there any reason why i wouldnt format my external sd card as ext3 on the n810? | 01:50 |
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| lcuk | moontiger, only needs fat if you want to use it in windows | 01:51 |
| lcuk | afaik | 01:52 |
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| lcuk | ive got mine as ext2 | 01:52 |
| jott | ~lart garage for its svn performance | 01:52 |
| * infobot forces garage to use Outlook Express for its svn performance | 01:52 | |
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| lcuk | heh jott, infobot might have just sped up access :D | 01:52 |
| jott | i honestly fear the contrary :P | 01:53 |
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| Jaffa | Ev'ning | 02:10 |
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| moontiger | dont use windows so cool :) | 02:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hey, Jaffa. | 02:23 |
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| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: bedding now. Weekend of downtime after a server upgrade's component's failed after 12 hours and an expensive GPRS connection between me & the (real) world. | 02:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ouch | 02:28 |
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| darkblue_B | so I am just looking through the repos on a newly updated N800.. I see something called maemo-python-env 1.1.0-2.. with all sorts of python stuff | 02:46 |
| darkblue_B | "for scratchbox".. any context on that? more than just face value for the python things that are listed | 02:47 |
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| darkblue_B | I just want the gtkpy libs to be available on the N800.. | 02:48 |
| darkblue_B | pygtk... | 02:48 |
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| gregorovius | anybody knows if there's a way to have modest and/or mnotify warn me of new mails in folders other than inbox through imap? | 03:04 |
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| GeneralAntilles | gregorovius, not that I've noticed. | 03:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Could make a fair enhancement request, although it sounds a little heavy for the client. | 03:08 |
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| gregorovius | it's not that modest doesn't notify me of mails in other folders... it doesn't check until I click on them, so it'll never find out by itself | 03:09 |
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| darkblue_B | well, this pygtk app I tried worked it seems | 03:16 |
| darkblue_B | so I'll defer on that big package | 03:17 |
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| esworp | what the swankiest apps out there these days for the tablets? I'd love to hear what some of the folks here would say.. | 03:37 |
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| Andrewfblack | hey Khertan check your email | 03:59 |
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| befr0d | hey, is it possible to use kmplayer in fullscreen? | 04:21 |
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| jott | befr0d: press the "fullscreen" key?! :) | 04:27 |
| befr0d | nop | 04:29 |
| jott | worksforme :/ | 04:29 |
| befr0d | really? | 04:29 |
| jott | yes | 04:29 |
| befr0d | I've just installed it | 04:29 |
| jott | i ocassionally use it to watch the worldtv99 streams. | 04:30 |
| befr0d | yeah, that's what I want to see | 04:31 |
| befr0d | oh, it worked now | 04:31 |
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| * befr0d was playing with player settings | 04:31 | |
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| crashanddie | "We are currently looking to fill the following position: RIP - Tech Director" | 04:57 |
| crashanddie | Now what the fuck do you make of that ! | 04:57 |
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| darkblue_B | so I just loaded rana.py on the Noka N800.. it loads and runs, but no maps.. wondering if anyone knows anything about it | 05:07 |
| darkblue_B | hmm actually I found a wiki page on it.. | 05:07 |
| darkblue_B | its part of OpenStreetMap | 05:07 |
| darkblue_B | looks like it wants a GPS.. I have a N800 | 05:07 |
| darkblue_B | .. so no GPS | 05:08 |
| darkblue_B | I wonder if the N810 is it? runs it | 05:08 |
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| moontiger | darkblue_B, do you not have an external GPS? | 05:50 |
| shapr | Is there some way to setup WinXP as a BT PAN server so I can ssh from cygwin to my N800? | 05:50 |
| shapr | Or maybe the other way around, can my N800 be a BT PAN server? | 05:50 |
| moontiger | XP doesnt do bluetooth properly at all afaik | 05:51 |
| GAN800 | wifi? usbnet? | 05:51 |
| shapr | y0 gen | 05:53 |
| shapr | GAN800: Can my winxp laptop do AP wifi mode? | 05:54 |
| GAN800 | Howdy, shapr | 05:54 |
| * GAN800 doesn't do Windows | 05:54 | |
| shapr | I wish I didn't... | 05:54 |
| shapr | But I do windows at work, and I need my linux fix! | 05:54 |
| GAN800 | The N800 should be fine for whatever, dunno about XP. | 05:54 |
| shapr | Can the N800 do wifi ap mode? | 05:54 |
| GAN800 | You could always do adhoc if it came down to it | 05:55 |
| shapr | I thought xp didn't support that? | 05:55 |
| GAN800 | No, doesn't support master | 05:55 |
| shapr | oh | 05:55 |
| shapr | hmm | 05:55 |
| GAN800 | Crap wifi drivers. . . . | 05:55 |
| shapr | No kidding | 05:55 |
| shapr | oh, and it can't handle SDHC cards larger than 4GB. | 05:55 |
| shapr | For example, my 16GB SDHC cards are linux-only at this point. | 05:55 |
| shapr | But it's nice to have 32GB total in my N800 | 05:55 |
| * GAN800 needs more storage | 05:56 | |
| GAN800 | I just got gphoto2 going | 05:56 |
| shapr | I have 750GB on my desktop. | 05:56 |
| GAN800 | Turned into my camera unloading device. | 05:56 |
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| Grackle | johnx, going to try out testdisk now. | 06:14 |
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| Grackle | wow. | 06:26 |
| Grackle | that was impressively easy. | 06:26 |
| Grackle | now to boot a livecd and chroot into the system so i can reinstall grub | 06:27 |
| Grackle | wow that is not even necessary | 06:31 |
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| Grackle | Fuck yeah. | 06:37 |
| Grackle | That was so easy I almost want to do it again. | 06:37 |
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| moontiger | if i read about one more "social networking life-streaming aggregation" service i will puke :| | 06:53 |
| GAN800 | lol | 06:53 |
| GAN800 | It's gotten just a bit out of hand. | 06:53 |
| moontiger | shapr, do you have a smartfone? | 06:55 |
| gregorovius | I can't find a media player I'm happy about =/ | 07:00 |
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| GAN800 | There are only about a thousand of them. | 07:03 |
| gregorovius | canola has a couple of really annoying bugs | 07:05 |
| moontiger | why do some people just not get it? sending me a 2400x3200 image for their blog profile image??!!?? | 07:05 |
| gregorovius | mediabox is fine, but it sometimes goes nuts | 07:05 |
| moontiger | i like mediabox | 07:05 |
| GAN800 | http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/multimedia/ | 07:05 |
| gregorovius | and I'm not a fan of its interface | 07:06 |
| moontiger | really? ive had no problems with it | 07:06 |
| gregorovius | ie, when i'm browsing for an album, why should I do it in a tiny strip in the left side? | 07:06 |
| moontiger | i think its impossible to make an interface that would work for everybodys way of doing media to be honest | 07:06 |
| gregorovius | ofc | 07:06 |
| gregorovius | canola is my cup of tea there | 07:07 |
| moontiger | it is purdy to be sure | 07:07 |
| moontiger | ukmp has an interesting idea too i think | 07:07 |
| GAN800 | UKMP is dead | 07:07 |
| moontiger | really?? | 07:07 |
| GAN800 | Well, uh, konttori is working for the big N these days. | 07:08 |
| GAN800 | Not really the time for it anymore. ;) | 07:08 |
| moontiger | oh doh! he was talking about making a good new version too :( | 07:08 |
| gregorovius | ukmp looks nice on screenshots, but I didn't like its look and feel | 07:08 |
| moontiger | hmmmmm | 07:09 |
| moontiger | maybe a lightweight canola would be good | 07:09 |
| moontiger | i was thinking of an email interface similar to that too | 07:09 |
| moontiger | might work | 07:09 |
| gregorovius | without animations and stuff | 07:09 |
| moontiger | yes | 07:10 |
| gregorovius | i'd go for that | 07:10 |
| GAN800 | I dunno, maybe he'll pick it up again, I can't speak for him, but the last I heard was that he was stepping aside for Canola. | 07:10 |
| moontiger | hmmmmm ok | 07:10 |
| moontiger | well i might try to mock up an email app interface in the next week or two to see if the idea would worl | 07:10 |
| moontiger | work too | 07:11 |
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| dougt | is there a page on wiki on how to recover a device that is in a _restart_ loop? | 07:31 |
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| Grackle_ | You'll probably just have to reflash it. | 07:36 |
| dougt | reflash FTW | 07:36 |
| dougt | is there a way to generate a flash based on the current state of your device? | 07:36 |
| trenka | dougt: what did you do BTW? | 07:36 |
| trenka | dougt: does no-lifeguard-resets help? | 07:37 |
| dougt | trenka: typical engineer question... what did _I_ do. | 07:37 |
| dougt | i do not know what a no-lifeguard-resets is, but googling now | 07:37 |
| Grackle_ | dougt, no, but you can clone the device to an SD card, which has the added benefit of being faster and being easily transferred to a computer. Also, if you screw up your SD card system while on the go, you can always boot the failsafe one in flash. | 07:37 |
| trenka | dougt: if you think that'a wrong question, sorry, I'm keeping silent | 07:38 |
| dougt | Grackle_: that sounds hawt | 07:38 |
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| dougt | trenka: nah. | 07:38 |
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| dougt | trenka: i probably fucked it up; not sure what I did. I am testing OOM conditions in an app. | 07:38 |
| Grackle_ | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8631 dougt | 07:39 |
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| Grackle_ | Well, something like that anyway. | 07:39 |
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| Grackle_ | It might be better to look around to find diablo specific instructions, I dunno if those work. | 07:39 |
| dougt | time to reflash and cry while doing it. | 07:40 |
| GAN800 | ~boot-sd | 07:40 |
| infobot | i guess boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card | 07:40 |
| GAN800 | Turn off the watchdogs, pray you have ssh installed and auto-connect enabled. | 07:41 |
| GAN800 | otherwise, install bootmenu like I tols you to do the last time. ;) | 07:42 |
| GAN800 | s/tols/told/ | 07:42 |
| infobot | GAN800 meant: otherwise, install bootmenu like I told you to do the last time. ;) | 07:42 |
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| msh | anyone know if there are any docs on power saving apart from the little section in quality considerations? | 07:58 |
| msh | wondering if say waking up once every 5 secs would differ from say every 1 sec | 07:58 |
| msh | etc | 07:59 |
| msh | actuallly wait, that doc kinda answers my question :) | 07:59 |
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| moontiger | msh, wouldnt waking up every second use 5 times as much power as every 5 seconds? | 08:18 |
| moontiger | :) | 08:18 |
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| Addison | Heya fellas! How's everyone tonight? | 08:19 |
| msh | moontiger: i don't know - at some point it the interval becomes small enough that the cpu won't sleep at all between wakeups i guess | 08:22 |
| msh | dunno what that time interval is though | 08:22 |
| moontiger | i would think it less than 5 secs before powerstep kicks in tho no? | 08:23 |
| msh | yeah, though is it much less than 1 sec? | 08:23 |
| msh | i'm wondering about gpsdriver's frequent wakeups | 08:24 |
| msh | just drafting a bug report/enh req now | 08:24 |
| ShadowJK | If you have enough things that wake up every 5 seconds, the CPU ends up unable to sleep anyway | 08:26 |
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| msh | yeah, i'm considering gps logging every 30 or 60secs with the screen sleeping | 08:28 |
| msh | so prob not much awake | 08:28 |
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| dougt | where are the watchdogs installed? where are their config files so I can see what they are trying to do? | 08:34 |
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| GeneralAntilles | ~100ms | 08:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe less | 08:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | dougt, lol | 08:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | HARDWARE watchdogs. ;) | 08:39 |
| dougt | GeneralAntilles: come on. are they looking at processes or something? | 08:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Um, there's a mailing list post somewhere covering some of what they do. | 08:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, there are several | 08:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | One is strictly hardware | 08:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | It kills the device during extended periods of 100% CPU usage | 08:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then the other stuff covers xserver, window manager, connectivity and such | 08:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which is what triggers the reboot loops | 08:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | flasher-3.0 --set-rd-flags | 08:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | will give you a list | 08:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | OMAP, Retu and lifeguard | 08:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | lifeguard would be the process monitor | 08:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Retu is REALLY low level | 08:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | OMAP deals with device lockups | 08:44 |
| dougt | yeah, i disabled the lifegaurd one and it boots. | 08:45 |
| dougt | not sure if I should continue using this device as-is, figure out what is wrong, or just reflash. | 08:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Does it boot to a desktop? | 08:46 |
| dougt | yeah | 08:46 |
| dougt | could ssh into too, move files around, launch stuff | 08:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, figure out what the last dozen or so things you did before you restarted were. | 08:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | and start working backwards | 08:47 |
| dougt | scp crap to the media/mmc1 | 08:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nope | 08:47 |
| dougt | hmm. | 08:47 |
| dougt | yeah, i did something pretty bad, but it usually doesn't kill the device | 08:48 |
| dougt | i allocate 4096 blocks until osso_* tells me there is low memory | 08:48 |
| dougt | it is a test app. | 08:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't know enough about the OOM handling to say what could go wrong there. | 08:49 |
| dougt | btw, the osso memory stuff isn't ideal. | 08:49 |
| dougt | it uses dbus, so your OOM notification is going to be processed by your event loop; | 08:49 |
| dougt | so you will not know you are OOM until you eat events. | 08:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Out of my league. | 08:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm sure -developers might choke up some reasoning, though. | 08:50 |
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| * Stskeeps yawns loudly | 09:40 | |
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| * GAN800 continues on the path of total insomnia fail. | 09:44 | |
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| Stskeeps | i feel like i'm still asleep, and my headache doesn't help it :P | 09:45 |
| Dekaritae | Try some Stereolab | 09:45 |
| Dekaritae | http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4346000/ | 09:45 |
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| GAN800 | It wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have to drive 5 hours back to school today. | 09:46 |
| rm_you | >_> | 09:47 |
| * rm_you starts school on Thursday | 09:47 | |
| Stskeeps | start of semester? i started yesterday :P | 09:47 |
| * rm_you has been back for a week and a bit | 09:47 | |
| rm_you | yeah | 09:47 |
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| Dekaritae | Ok, so I'm selling my N800 | 09:48 |
| rm_you | :( | 09:48 |
| rm_you | y4? | 09:48 |
| Dekaritae | Ah, it was inevitable. I picked up a Touc hand fell in love | 09:48 |
| rm_you | >_> | 09:48 |
| GAN800 | Why are you telling us? | 09:48 |
| rm_you | want to sell it to one of us cheap? :P | 09:49 |
| Dekaritae | Well, I was thinking that someone here might be looking to purchase one | 09:49 |
| * GAN800 STILL can't fathom why anybody REALLY thinks other people are that worried about the device they use. | 09:49 | |
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| Stskeeps | GAN800: i've just adopted the notion (regarding people using my software, or using someone else's), that it's their choice and i dont really care what they run | 09:50 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:50 |
| Stskeeps | so when people say they have a ipod touch or whatever, sure, good for them :P | 09:51 |
| Dekaritae | Yus, everyone has their needs | 09:51 |
| * Stskeeps is just happy with his n800 | 09:51 | |
| Dekaritae | I wanted to like the N800, but the Touch has the best mobile crossword app I've ever tried | 09:52 |
| rm_you | the touch doesn't have SSH that i've seen >_> | 09:52 |
| rm_you | then again, a lot of people don't NEED that on their mobile device :P | 09:52 |
| GAN800 | Touch/iPhone just manage to piss me off. | 09:52 |
| Dekaritae | MobileFinder has SFTP | 09:52 |
| GAN800 | and any claims towards them being 'more stable' than Maemo are outright lies. | 09:53 |
| GAN800 | SFTP != SSH | 09:53 |
| rm_you | I still think Steve Jobs gets his rocks off by seeing just how much shit he can make his loyal fanbase go through and have them continue to worship him | 09:53 |
| rm_you | which turns out to be A LOT OF SHIT. :P | 09:53 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 09:53 |
| Stskeeps | there's prolly a lot of psychological studies related to this | 09:54 |
| liri | morning | 09:54 |
| GAN800 | Eh, the computer stuff isn't bad | 09:54 |
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| CptLaptop | yeah, the monkey and hamlet theory | 09:54 |
| Stskeeps | the stanford experiment comes to mind | 09:54 |
| CptLaptop | :p | 09:54 |
| GAN800 | it's their mobile pursuites which are pure hell. | 09:54 |
| CptLaptop | only downside of the NITs is the weak cpu imo | 09:55 |
| GAN800 | weak compared to what? | 09:55 |
| GAN800 | The 'weak' argument is so bogus. | 09:55 |
| rm_you | wait, this CPU is weak? >_> | 09:55 |
| Dekaritae | And the lack of commercial support | 09:55 |
| CptLaptop | other ultraportable devices | 09:55 |
| Dekaritae | But it has a different target market than the iP* | 09:56 |
| CptLaptop | no matter how much i love the thing, its fucking slow | 09:56 |
| GAN800 | Downside is lots of badly optimized software. | 09:56 |
| GAN800 | Erm, what other ultraportables? | 09:56 |
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| GAN800 | UMPCs at twice the size and a 3rd of the battery life? | 09:56 |
| GAN800 | Bogus. | 09:56 |
| Dekaritae | The big downside of the Apple side was evident today. They killed the only free Tetris clone on the Apple store due to presumed copyright infringement | 09:57 |
| GAN800 | or MIDs at slightly larger and a 3rd of the battery life? | 09:57 |
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| GAN800 | Take your pick | 09:57 |
| CptLaptop | that still doesnt help the fact the tablet is underpowered, as youre right - the other devices have crappy battery, no bt, touchscreen lacking etc etc but if you want to run say unconverted video, or really any app that requires a bit more power, you have to compromise | 09:57 |
| GAN800 | There isn't anything else comparable. | 09:58 |
| CptLaptop | not in the price range | 09:58 |
| CptLaptop | there should be | 09:58 |
| GAN800 | unconverted video works fine here | 09:58 |
| CptLaptop | im talking normal xvid and such not your porn collection :p | 09:58 |
| rm_you | well, not unconverted bluray rips >_> | 09:58 |
| GAN800 | The point is, the OMAP2420 was state of the art for it's time. | 09:58 |
| CptLaptop | you wont make me believe youre playing 350MB/40 minutes xvid files with action in them "fine" | 09:59 |
| GAN800 | So when you say 'weak', you mean, 'mobile CPUs aren't yet up to snuff' | 09:59 |
| GAN800 | Because there aint nothin' else better. | 09:59 |
| CptLaptop | more the line of "the nits are outdated" | 09:59 |
| bef0rd | I'm able to play a DVD RIP as I downloaded it with mplayer pretty well without having to recode it | 09:59 |
| GAN800 | outdated to what? OMAP3 hasn't even shipped commercially. | 09:59 |
| liri | bef0rd: I don't know if you managed to get pykaraoke to work but I did and I documented it on the wiki so... | 10:00 |
| GAN800 | Yes, I am play 400-650 pixel wide xvid in the 600-1100Kbps range fine. | 10:00 |
| CptLaptop | atom or whatnot. i dont care about the technical shit, that snokias job, and frankly your fanboyism is rather funny | 10:00 |
| moontiger | im really happy with the video playback for movies that i get | 10:00 |
| moontiger | :) | 10:01 |
| Dekaritae | On an entirely unrelated note, dmitrygr demontrated that with his Palm SDHC driver, you can daisy chain microSDHC cards to unused GPIO contacts on the Palm TX and add up to 32GB of internal storage independent from the external card | 10:01 |
| bef0rd | liri, ohh, cool, gonna give it a try | 10:01 |
| GAN800 | Atom isn't comparable in power usage | 10:01 |
| GAN800 | An Atom uses as much juice as the WHOLE GODDAMN TABLET. | 10:01 |
| liri | bef0rd: ok cool | 10:01 |
| liri | GeneralAntilles: can you add the howto page to the Category:users list of pages please? | 10:01 |
| GAN800 | 'Fanboism', there's a classic lame dismissal. | 10:02 |
| GAN800 | liri, just add [[Category:Users]] to the bottom. | 10:02 |
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| liri | ahh thanks | 10:03 |
| CptLaptop | fine, so the n800 should have a media chip as well then. seeing thats become a big part of what people use it for, that wouldnt be a bad idea for a upgrade | 10:03 |
| GAN800 | It HAS a media chip. | 10:03 |
| rm_you | isn't the media chip IN THERE, just not functional? | 10:03 |
| GAN800 | Nokia just doesn't use it. | 10:04 |
| rm_you | that IV whatever? | 10:04 |
| GAN800 | IVA | 10:04 |
| GAN800 | Right next to the DSP | 10:04 |
| moontiger | nite all :) | 10:05 |
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| GAN800 | The CPU isn't weak, it's just underutilized and overburdened by too much desktop-targeted software. | 10:05 |
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| CptLaptop | itt is down | 10:08 |
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| johnx | CptLaptop, not here | 10:13 |
| CptLaptop | not here either now | 10:15 |
| CptLaptop | 7 min ago however i got loading error every time i tried | 10:15 |
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| CptLaptop | which fits the fact there ahsnt been a post in 40 minutes | 10:16 |
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| johnx | it seems to go down a lot | 10:18 |
| CptLaptop | havent noticed that | 10:19 |
| Stskeeps | morn johnx | 10:19 |
| CptLaptop | but only check it once or twice a day | 10:19 |
| johnx | mornin' Stskeeps | 10:19 |
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| * Stskeeps finishes last night's debootstrap and hopes it works | 10:19 | |
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| * Stskeeps pops the battery for tests | 10:22 | |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: I was trying to look into run-standalone.sh and root but I failed because it seems all my apps that are launched from root automatically take the theming settings. Probably an sudoers env thing. But instead of using run-standalone.sh,you may want to make a quick script that sources /etc/osso-af-init/osso-gtk.defs and runs the zenity. | 10:23 |
| qwerty12 | w00t, packages.debian.org is as slow as ever | 10:24 |
| Stskeeps | woo, no dead deblet when popping battery \o/ | 10:24 |
| Stskeeps | i swear, packages.debian.org must be running on a n770 | 10:24 |
| Stskeeps | it has been unstable ever since i have used it | 10:24 |
| qwerty12 | Give them some credit, the n770 is for maemo.org. packages.debian.org use a N800 | 10:24 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 10:25 |
| bef0rd | blobby volley is nice :P | 10:26 |
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| * johnx used to host a samba domain server on hardware a little slower than an n800... | 10:27 | |
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| qwerty12 | No one has packed libtremor, I'm not going to bother. I'll just use libvorbis :P | 10:27 |
| Stskeeps | i used to code an irc server on a 50mhz, 80mb ram.. which coincided with me starting to drink coffee to wait up for the compiles | 10:27 |
| qwerty12 | lol what, even my first computer was a 733MHZ, 128MB ram :P | 10:28 |
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| jaska | dont remember the clock.. but there was 4kB+16kB memory on my first | 10:29 |
| gomiam | qwerty12: you newbies... I had to make do with a 286 until 1996 :-P | 10:29 |
| gomiam | jaska: that sounds like a Z-80 derived | 10:29 |
| Stskeeps | my first computer was a c64, then i had a 286 with 1mb of ram, then came a 486 50mhz with 80mb ram, and then i jumped to 700mhz at some point | 10:29 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:29 |
| Stskeeps | that was a change | 10:29 |
| qwerty12 | gomiam: Hehe, all you people with your old computers :P | 10:30 |
| jaska | gomiam: probably... i was about 4 or so at the time so i dont remember rest of the details :) | 10:30 |
| Stskeeps | but i learnt from that the art of using machines remotely so i can get cheap equipment nowadays and just ssh into big machines i have access to | 10:30 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:30 |
| gomiam | jaska: when I was six my father bought a MSX microcomputer. Unfortunately, he didn't manage to understand it and returned it | 10:30 |
| gomiam | pity | 10:30 |
| gomiam | XD | 10:30 |
| bef0rd | mine was a 133 mhz with 16mb ram .. Windows 95 was really fast on that | 10:31 |
| qwerty12 | Hehe, I used to mess around with an MSX emulator (not the real thing :P) and play some metal gear solid. Until I just put the PS1 versions on my PSP. | 10:31 |
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| Stskeeps | oh, right, i had a 133mhz at some point too. running redhat 5.1 | 10:32 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:32 |
| bef0rd | a 14.4 modem :o | 10:33 |
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| gomiam | oh, redhat. SLS 4tw, with a 9600 bps modem (I don't know how I got hold of it) | 10:33 |
| Stskeeps | i tried debian in 95-96 or something. installing from floppies.. i utterly hated dselect back then | 10:33 |
| bef0rd | hah I remember It took me like 5 hours to download a new version of Internet explorer on that machine :| | 10:34 |
| gomiam | Stskeeps: true, true. I used to allocate a couple of weekends whenever I installed Debian (in order to dselect my way through) | 10:34 |
| gomiam | bef0rd: you were fortunate, it seems. You had a cheap phone connection. | 10:35 |
| Stskeeps | the worst part is that some of the same frustrations i meet with debian these days, are exactly the same as back then | 10:35 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: I've got dselect for maemo somewhere, you want? :P | 10:35 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: if i can beat it to pieces with a bat.. | 10:35 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:35 |
| gomiam | Stskeeps: well, what frustrations do you have with Debian yet? | 10:35 |
| qwerty12 | NOOOOOOOOOO | 10:35 |
| * qwerty12 runs and protects dselect | 10:35 | |
| Stskeeps | gomiam: i had one example but i can't recall it right now as i have a bad headache | 10:36 |
| aquatix | good moaning | 10:36 |
| Stskeeps | but last i installed debian on a desktop machine, i ran into same problem | 10:36 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:36 |
| Stskeeps | gomiam: nothing directly against debian as such, - i do develop deblet for the tablets ;) just have some run-ins with how things are done at times both philosophically and technically | 10:37 |
| gomiam | Stskeeps: you might want to check the testing branch. The installer has gone quite a way forward. | 10:37 |
| gomiam | Stskeeps: no problem. I'm currently banging my head against a Debian testing kernel freeze on 2.6.2x | 10:37 |
| gomiam | fortunately, I still have a 2.6.18 kernel installed to keep me going. | 10:38 |
| Stskeeps | gomiam: figure out why starting S03udev causes open("/dev/root", O_RDONLY|O_EXCL) to fail with EBUSY on 2.6.21 (causes checkroot to die) and i'll buy you a pizza | 10:38 |
| Stskeeps | if i run fsck -before- udev, it runs fine | 10:38 |
| pupnik | is there such thing as a sensible checking/expenses minder for maemo, or should i use vi? | 10:39 |
| Stskeeps | oh, and this only happens when ext2/3 is unmounted uncleanly | 10:39 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:39 |
| gomiam | Stskeeps: it's the moon, I tell you. It's all in the phase of the moon ;-) | 10:39 |
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| gomiam | you should go out in the next new moon and sacrifice a black calf | 10:39 |
| gomiam | :-P | 10:39 |
| Stskeeps | yea :P considered it | 10:39 |
| aquatix | or a white lion, but those are a bit harder to do | 10:39 |
| gomiam | it won't help a bit, but a least you get to have some fun (until the police gets ahold of you) | 10:40 |
| aquatix | and it makes for great steak | 10:40 |
| aquatix | bbq! | 10:40 |
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| Wolfpaws | Rats. | 10:41 |
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| Wolfpaws | Hi. I have a question... How do I make a graphical application for Maemo? Is there a simple HOWTO for it? | 10:42 |
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| qwerty12 | pupnik: Don't think so :(. There is a car expenses application but I don't that will help you. Some people just use Garnet VM but that does have an expiry date... | 10:44 |
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| pupnik | qwerty12: i don't even know what features people need. heh. is there a mega simple spreadsheet for maemo with just like... sum(A1:A20) and simple maths? :D | 10:46 |
| GAN800 | gnumeric | 10:46 |
| Khertan | pupnik: gnumeric | 10:46 |
| qwerty12 | ^ | 10:46 |
| pupnik | ok.. big guns | 10:46 |
| Khertan | Hi ! | 10:46 |
| aquatix | pupnik: ah, and er, gnumeric! | 10:46 |
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| pupnik | you all are wrong | 10:46 |
| pupnik | :D | 10:47 |
| aquatix | works surprisingly well on maemo btw | 10:47 |
| aquatix | imho | 10:47 |
| GAN800 | Why does it seem like the plenware guys spend all day coding weird patches for Maemo? | 10:48 |
| aquatix | http://www.plenware.fi/en/ ? | 10:49 |
| GAN800 | Yeah | 10:49 |
| GAN800 | All the Chinese guys attaching patches in bugzilla. | 10:49 |
| pupnik | ok http://www.ossramblings.com/cbtracker - tony maro who has a N800 also wrote something | 10:50 |
| pupnik | urgh, written in pascal | 10:51 |
| GAN800 | Gene Cash had something, but I dunno if it was ever ported to OS2008. | 10:53 |
| GAN800 | He mostly liked to spend his time bitching about it after it came out. | 10:53 |
| timeless | hello world | 10:54 |
| qwerty12 | I think that other guy rbrewer ported some of his apps to OS2008 | 10:54 |
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| pupnik | thanks for the tips... i'm a little surprised more people aren't clamoring for pda-ish apps | 10:55 |
| GAN800 | There's plenty of clamoring | 10:55 |
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| GAN800 | Just not a lot of coding. | 10:55 |
| GAN800 | Other than GPE | 10:56 |
| GAN800 | Which is basically just gcobb. | 10:56 |
| GAN800 | Hello, timeless. | 10:56 |
| Wolfpaws | Odd... What gives? [sbox-DIABLO_ARMEL: ~] > gainroot | 10:57 |
| Wolfpaws | /usr/sbin/chroot: cannot change root directory to /mnt/initfs: Operation not permitted | 10:57 |
| timeless | nice | 10:57 |
| Stskeeps | odd question, when you got your n800 + headset.. did you get the black layer to wrap around the actual headphones? | 11:02 |
| Stskeeps | saw them on my gf's other nokia headset | 11:02 |
| Stskeeps | since the headphone parts are a bit nasty towards the ear else | 11:03 |
| gomiam | Stskeeps: I don't think so. Mine didn't, IIRC | 11:03 |
| Stskeeps | k | 11:03 |
| gomiam | (but my memory ages faster than the refresh update, so...) | 11:04 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: Hmm, I have a bit of black rubber around the headset that came with my N800 | 11:04 |
| Stskeeps | odd, didn't get that | 11:04 |
| Stskeeps | then again, i bought it from the US and usian ears are prolly more resistant to foreign objects ;> | 11:05 |
| qwerty12 | ~lart faad2 | 11:05 |
| * infobot pushes the wall down onto faad2 whilst whistling innocently | 11:05 | |
| gomiam | Stskeeps: specially if they are Japanese (just 1.2% of foreigners living in Japan? Oh dear) ;-) | 11:05 |
| gomiam | argh | 11:06 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: Your wifi is 2 frequencies down :P | 11:06 |
| gomiam | USian!=asian | 11:06 |
| * gomiam goes buy new par of eyeballs. | 11:06 | |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: prolly, but works fine here :P | 11:06 |
| Stskeeps | okay, so my battery applet has disappeared on my chinook | 11:07 |
| Stskeeps | lovely | 11:07 |
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| qwerty12 | It's telling you to upgrade to diablo | 11:07 |
| Stskeeps | it'll be a cold day in hell when i upgrade to diablo | 11:07 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:07 |
| gomiam | XD | 11:07 |
| Stskeeps | it'll prolly end up with me default booting to deblet instead | 11:08 |
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| pupnik | "Warning: dates on calendar are closer than they appear." - nice itt .sig | 11:23 |
| jaska | heh | 11:23 |
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| Khertan | N | 11:23 |
| Khertan | ? | 11:23 |
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| Khertan | pupnik: help me to finish my mPIM apps :) | 11:26 |
| pupnik | url? | 11:26 |
| pupnik | no time, need to earn money | 11:26 |
| bef0rd | qwerty12, http://beford.org/stuff/emesene.jpg :P | 11:27 |
| gomiam | bef0rd: ¿de dónde eres? ;-) | 11:27 |
| qwerty12 | bef0rd: wow, that's brilliant :). Just out of question, don't you have load applet or mh shot tool or something? :P | 11:28 |
| bef0rd | haha I actually have it .. dunno why took a picture instead | 11:28 |
| bef0rd | gomiam, Colombia | 11:29 |
| gomiam | bef0rd: ah, cierto, que ya no recordaba lo del "buuu" XD | 11:29 |
| qwerty12 | bef0rd: Heh, I just vnc in and take a screenshot or ssh in and use fbgrab and use sshfs to retrieve the picture :/ | 11:29 |
| bef0rd | gomiam, sep, pero no soy la 'chica' de la foto :P soy Fernando. | 11:30 |
| gomiam | bef0rd: ¿antes o después del cambio de sexo? ;-) | 11:30 |
| qwerty12 | I don't know what he said but sounds good | 11:31 |
| gomiam | qwerty12: just joking about his not being the girl on the lower right side of the picture | 11:31 |
| qwerty12 | heh :) | 11:31 |
| bef0rd | haha gomiam :P | 11:31 |
| gomiam | (and asking whether that was before or after the sex change operation) | 11:31 |
| qwerty12 | lol | 11:31 |
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| Khertan | pupnik: currently mCalendar, and mContacts | 11:35 |
| melmoth | Khertan:do you plan to push pygtkeditor in diablo extras repo ? i did not find it | 11:36 |
| melmoth | and i did not find the gtksourceview lib when i try to installed it manually fetching binary from here and there | 11:36 |
| Khertan | melmoth: yep ... it s planned ... but not a priority ... | 11:37 |
| pupnik | congrats Khertan | 11:37 |
| Khertan | as i can't make a gtksourceview source package on my not | 11:37 |
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| Khertan | nit | 11:37 |
| Khertan | melmoth: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/p/pygtkeditor/pygtkeditor-2.2.0-4_all.deb | 11:38 |
| Khertan | melmoth: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/p/python-pygtksourceview/python-pygtksourceview-2.0.0-4_armel.deb | 11:38 |
| Khertan | http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/libg/libgtksourceview2.0-0/libgtksourceview2.0-0-2.0.0-2_armel.deb | 11:39 |
| melmoth | ohh, that the one i missed yesterday | 11:39 |
| Khertan | melmoth: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/libg/libgtksourceview2.0-common/libgtksourceview2.0-common-2.0.1-2_armel.deb | 11:39 |
| melmoth | thanks | 11:40 |
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| thux | i changed to links2 -g cause diablo's browser keeps falling, can i somehow set links2 -g in full screen? | 11:54 |
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| melmoth | haha | 11:59 |
| melmoth | oups | 11:59 |
| dexem | I'm trying to use osso_statusbar_send_event to send some dbus signals, but I don't know how to know if it's working (it doesn't seem)... how can I know it? or... do you know any link I could see? | 12:00 |
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| florian | good morning | 12:14 |
| murrayc_ | florian: Hi. | 12:15 |
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| robsta | hello | 12:24 |
| robsta | i'm wondering how to get the gps on my n810 going | 12:24 |
| robsta | it doesn't work in the map app, neither with maemo mapper | 12:24 |
| yacoob | robsta, if you're talking internal gps, it doesn't do well in areas with poor reception | 12:25 |
| robsta | internal, yes | 12:25 |
| robsta | hmm, ok, so maybe i'm just unlucky where i'm living? | 12:26 |
| yacoob | you should get a separate gps icon in the status bar - see how many satelites you see, and what is the signal level | 12:26 |
| robsta | the satellite icon was flashing while satellites were scanned for, now it's gone | 12:27 |
| melmoth | first time i used the gps, it got a hook on the satellite the moment i arrived at destination. | 12:27 |
| florian | robsta: The first fix (and every cold start) takes ages. Setting the clock correctly can help a lot. | 12:28 |
| robsta | /dev/pgps would it be for internal, right? | 12:29 |
| robsta | florian: think i've never gotten the fix, in months | 12:29 |
| robsta | or do i need to use GPSD Host? | 12:30 |
| melmoth | robsta: with maemomapper, you just leave blank the gps info field to use the internal one (if i remeber correclty) | 12:30 |
| yacoob | melmoth, if you leve it blank, it'll use the one you configure in system settings | 12:31 |
| melmoth | and choose "bluetooth" | 12:31 |
| robsta | melmoth: i don't have a BT GPS device around | 12:31 |
| melmoth | robsta: me neither, as yacoob says, the system setting gps is set to internal. | 12:32 |
| melmoth | and the maemomapper one is set to "bluetooth", blank entry | 12:32 |
| robsta | "Establishing GPS fix", oh awesome, never got that far | 12:33 |
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| melmoth | robsta: be sure you are out, and not moving, and no finger near the leftern top part of the tablet. | 12:36 |
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| lcuk | hmmm, has anyone noticed any changes with the cpufreq throttling, on powersave now i have a noticable speed step between active and inactive. its almost as if powersave is acting like ondemand | 12:47 |
| JamieBennett | lcuk: Can't say I've noticed but ... its possible I suppose | 12:48 |
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| lcuk | hi JamieBennett i flashed to diablo this weekend, and thought i was in a different cpumode cos of the way it was acting | 12:49 |
| JamieBennett | I've been running diablo for a while now so maybe the effect has worn off on me? | 12:49 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk: changes were made in the kernel and cpufreq is handled by kernel. maybe read kernel-source-diablo changelog? | 12:50 |
| lcuk | well powersave is what i always switched to when i knew i wasnt using the device cos i knew it stayed slow | 12:50 |
| lcuk | yer im gonna have to, it was just noticing a difference | 12:50 |
| * qwerty12 looks into why my libid3tag is effed up | 12:51 | |
| lcuk | optimizations :P | 12:52 |
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| qwerty12 | I don't think it is :P, it just seems to be missing a function according to the mpd configure script. If I can't have tag support in mpd, no point in compiling it. | 12:52 |
| lcuk | heh, does this mean the compilation youve been tryingall weekend is for nothing? | 12:53 |
| qwerty12 | Shouldn't be :). I'll just grab libid3tag from Austin Che's repo. Won't be optimised but it's just a tag reader :P :) | 12:54 |
| * qwerty12 has been annoyed I've been compiling with -g. I'm not going back however. | 12:55 | |
| lcuk | but thats the sort of operation you NEED to be fast, it has to go through each file and identify the tag location - its why all the media scanners are slow | 12:55 |
| * Jaffa preps his council candidacy mail. | 12:55 | |
| qwerty12 | lcuk: hmm, good point. But mpd currently with that lib scans my files fast. | 12:56 |
| qwerty12 | Heh, free is great. He published that perl script he made that excellent changelog with. | 12:57 |
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| Stskeeps | ~extras | 12:59 |
| infobot | i heard extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras | 12:59 |
| JamieBennett | go Jaffa :D | 13:01 |
| Jaffa | JamieBennett: ta :) | 13:01 |
| lcuk | ok i grabbed the changelog and theres nothing new and specific, maybe its upstream | 13:02 |
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| lcuk | or downstream or whatever it is | 13:02 |
| qwerty12 | Cool, the file manager dialogs will be different in fremantle, hopefully nicer :) | 13:02 |
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| qwerty12 | lcuk: not sure on that, it's still 2.6.21 | 13:03 |
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| lcuk | ill have a proper rummage through later, for now im not that bothered, just surprised me - there IS still a difference between powersave and ondemand, but they both speed up when you give them a workout | 13:04 |
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| lcuk | ondemand speeds up more often though | 13:04 |
| lcuk | :) jaffa | 13:05 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk: fixed the libid3tag with optimisations :) | 13:05 |
| lcuk | good :) | 13:06 |
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| qwerty12 | Thanks, it just needed a recompile. Probably wanted libmad which I compiled after libid3tag :) | 13:06 |
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| lcuk | does it seem odd to anyone as to why the wimax driver was removed from kernel? | 13:11 |
| qwerty12 | Where does it say it was removed? | 13:11 |
| lcuk | ahhh tis ok - kernel source changelog, last entry - but theres a different new driver WiWLAN | 13:11 |
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| robsta | it seems to work now, thanks guys! | 13:23 |
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| * qwerty12 likes the whining tag on the "can the '08 GUI be ANY crappier?" thread lol | 13:34 | |
| * qwerty12 is happy. Optimised mpd is working brilliantly, just high cpu for 2 seconds at the start of each song :/ | 13:35 | |
| * JamieBennett likes Jaffa's email to the community list | 13:36 | |
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| * qwerty12 does dirty hacks to my dpkg status file | 13:38 | |
| Jaffa | JamieBennett: It's amazing what you can rattle off whilst waiting for Eclipse to work | 13:38 |
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| JamieBennett | Jaffa: :D | 13:39 |
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| Jaffa | Someone (and I'll do it later if no-one else has), needs to advertise candidature on ITT | 13:44 |
| JamieBennett | Jaffa: As in a thread or Reggie doing a front page news item? | 13:45 |
| Jaffa | I was thinking former. Maybe Reggie would then do his "promote thread to news article" thingy that he does sometimes. | 13:45 |
| Jaffa | I suspect there may be good candidates who are on ITT, but don't follow maemo-community | 13:46 |
| Jaffa | There's been *sufficient* advertising, but would be good to have more. | 13:46 |
| JamieBennett | I can go do a thread now, I'm not busy at the moment. | 13:46 |
| * qwerty12 didn't even realise there is maemo-community. Then again, I'm not a community person. | 13:47 | |
| Jaffa | JamieBennett: ta | 13:48 |
| Jaffa | /nick qwerty12 hermit12 | 13:49 |
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| Jaffa | :) | 13:49 |
| hermit12 | It worked :P :) | 13:49 |
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| * qwerty12 goes back to normal, that's enough frivolity from me today :P | 13:53 | |
| JamieBennett | Jaffa: Dave put it so eloquently in his email to the list that its hard to reword it. I'll add a comment to the start and reproduce it in the thread | 13:55 |
| Jaffa | JamieBennett: sounds good | 13:56 |
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| lcuk | jaffa, your post is true, i knowthey are gonna offer a standard but as you say if people dont like it, they will use their own | 14:18 |
| lcuk | its happened since the dawn of time, unless they get it bang on right we will continue this cycle | 14:19 |
| Jaffa | yup | 14:19 |
| JamieBennett | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=217579 | 14:19 |
| Jaffa | iterative development is better - it's just frustrating when the iterations are so long | 14:19 |
| Jaffa | JamieBennett: ta | 14:19 |
| JamieBennett | Jaffa: np | 14:19 |
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| yacoob | good way of starting up with maemo developement would be getting a linux box... I don't have one at the moment :D | 14:34 |
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| lcuk | yacoob ;) i develop in windows - for starters depending on the language you can just write python, for more indepth use vmware with the maemovmware image | 14:41 |
| RST38h | lcook | 14:41 |
| lcuk | RST38888h, | 14:42 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Any libao experts here? | 14:45 |
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| yacoob | lcuk, it's just I've got rid of my linux desktop at home, and I sure wouldn't want to ressurect it. I'll see whether I can have scratchbox on osx... | 14:45 |
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| melmoth | hola lcuk : remember the issue i had with slow cairo rendering in gtk ? Your tip (drawing the picture in the gtk thread based on info prepared on another thread) works like a charm. | 14:47 |
| melmoth | thanks ;-) | 14:47 |
| lcuk | melmoth, :) glad you got it sorted, now get the code/movie/anything out there | 14:49 |
| melmoth | there are still lots of work to do, but everything is on garage in the sayhoo project. I realised this morning computing the image can be made faster too | 14:50 |
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| melmoth | when looking for "nearby" node, i span the all node database with request asking for lat*lat and lon*lon, i should do that only for the part of hte map i m interested in. | 14:51 |
| melmoth | i expect things to be smotther once i change that too | 14:51 |
| melmoth | Then, i wonder how long a 'regular' route finding will take, and may be it will be usable. | 14:52 |
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| lcuk | melmoth, i forgot it was up, ill have a look at it later (if i remember) | 14:54 |
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| * lcuk slides back off to work | 14:55 | |
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| baaba | hey, i'm sort of confused about when the nfs mounts are supposed to happen exactly when using sbrsh? | 14:58 |
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| baaba | currently i've got scratchbox/the device in a state where if i run just sbrsh it says it can't find /bin/sh, but if i manually add the mounts on the device then it (sort of) works | 14:59 |
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| andrewfblack | Khertan you here | 15:05 |
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| Khertan | andrewfblack: yep | 15:18 |
| Khertan | andrewfblack: i ve received your files | 15:18 |
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| baaba | i also looked at /tmp/sbrshd___.log and it didn't say anything about mount failures - it just seems it doesn't even try to mount what i've specified in .sbrsh :< | 15:22 |
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| RST38h | moo all | 15:36 |
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| JamieBennett | RST38h: moo | 15:37 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hi RST38h | 15:38 |
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| lopz | hola | 15:50 |
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| Kegetys | hmm, how are you supposed to read sound from the N810 microphone using python? it seems the sound libraries have been removed | 16:20 |
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| XTL | gstreamer bindings? | 16:36 |
| XTL | Should be there. Don't know what you can pull out of them, though. | 16:37 |
| XTL | (Or what you want) | 16:37 |
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| Kegetys | I'd just want to read raw sound data from the microphone with as low latency as possible | 16:38 |
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| Knowledge | GAN800: what was the next logical chip for the new tablet? | 16:56 |
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| JamieBennett | Knowledge: OMAP3430 | 16:58 |
| Knowledge | Thanks Jamie...I'm dyin here, I wanted to get an n810, but decided I'll wait...for the next one | 16:59 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Good decision :) | 16:59 |
| jott | nah, buy both that's the best decision :D | 17:00 |
| JamieBennett | I'd wait but the n810 is a great device nonetheless | 17:00 |
| qwerty12_N800 | The way Nokia implemented the hardware on the N8x0 leaves a lot to be desired >.< | 17:00 |
| * qwerty12_N800 will start saving for an N900 :) | 17:00 | |
| * XTL keeps an eye out for cheap used ones | 17:00 | |
| Knowledge | I agree, until I realized that the D-pad is hidden... | 17:01 |
| Knowledge | that annoyed me... | 17:01 |
| jott | yay! cheap used n900s :) | 17:01 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | already?!? | 17:02 |
| qwerty12_N800 | :O | 17:02 |
| jott | hi pupnik! | 17:02 |
| XTL | gimme | 17:02 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | " * When setting non-en language on RX-48, make secondary input language en_US, not en_GB" | 17:05 |
| * qwerty12_N800 does not like | 17:05 | |
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| * XTL neither | 17:08 | |
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| RST38h | Ah, those brits... | 17:10 |
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| * qwerty12_N800 looks into testserver. i have a feeling phoenix starts it up when the tablet is connected to a FS-66 | 17:11 | |
| * XTL wishes there was en_SANE locale | 17:12 | |
| RST38h | it's C | 17:12 |
| RST38h | "C" locale is relatively sane | 17:12 |
| XTL | So it has been. | 17:12 |
| aquatix | non-utf8 though | 17:13 |
| RST38h | screw utf8... | 17:14 |
| XTL | Not by default | 17:14 |
| pupnik | hello jott | 17:15 |
| aquatix | RST38h: don't screw it by default? | 17:16 |
| RST38h | http://pics.livejournal.com/drugoi/pic/00h4at6h.gif | 17:18 |
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| RST38h | Heheh | 17:18 |
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| pedroerp | hey guys! how do i get the source of xserver-xomap package? | 17:19 |
| pupnik | wow, i can read norwegian (!) | 17:20 |
| RST38h | does not take much to figure out | 17:20 |
| RST38h | in this sample at least | 17:20 |
| XTL | Norwegian is pretty readable | 17:20 |
| pupnik | yes | 17:20 |
| XTL | More so if you know swedish | 17:20 |
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| pupnik | vorsammenarbeid = zusammenarbeit = working together | 17:21 |
| pupnik | etc | 17:21 |
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| PauloZanoni | is it possible to run xorg on n810? | 17:25 |
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| Knowledge | JamieBennett: did you mean the OMAP3530? | 17:25 |
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| andrewfblack | Khertan what did you think is it any good? Like I said never done one before | 17:26 |
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| JamieBennett | Knowledge: No, the 3430 - http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12643&contentId=14649 | 17:28 |
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| Knowledge | Yeah, sorry I found it after typing | 17:28 |
| Knowledge | I wonder why not any of the higher ones? | 17:28 |
| pupnik | 3530 is just a variant of 3430 | 17:29 |
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| JamieBennett | pupnik: Indeed | 17:29 |
| pupnik | strange choice of number imo | 17:29 |
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| Knowledge | Can't wait... | 17:33 |
| Knowledge | I kept wanting an Itouch...but figured I'd wait... | 17:34 |
| Knowledge | my 770 is getting old | 17:34 |
| JamieBennett | Yes, the announcements at OSiM and the summit should confirm/disprove if this is indeed going to be in the new tablets. | 17:35 |
| Knowledge | Alright, work calls....I'm out. | 17:35 |
| Knowledge | OSiM? | 17:36 |
| Knowledge | got it | 17:36 |
| JamieBennett | The event before the summit, Open source in mobile conference | 17:36 |
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| Knowledge | gotcha... | 17:36 |
| Knowledge | alright guys, take care. | 17:36 |
| JamieBennett | cya | 17:36 |
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| * qwerty12_N800 wants to know contents of https://projects.maemo.org/trac/af/wiki/Desktop/Data/SSU | 17:38 | |
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| aquatix | qwerty12_N800: user/pass please? ;) | 17:39 |
| qwerty12_N800 | aquatix: don't have it :(. some internal link i'd guess. i found it after googling | 17:40 |
| aquatix | qwerty12_N800: doesn't google cache have something interesting? | 17:40 |
| RST38h | no google cache? | 17:40 |
| pupnik | it would be hard to imagine nokia going with something else... | 17:40 |
| qwerty12_N800 | no :( | 17:40 |
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| XTL | It's unlikely google would get in either :) | 17:40 |
| * aquatix is not sure about that | 17:41 | |
| * qwerty12_N800 knows quite a few internal links, just no user/pass | 17:41 | |
| Khertan | and without the s ... | 17:41 |
| Khertan | of https ... i get a timeout error :( | 17:41 |
| XTL | I think p.m.o is off limits to public | 17:42 |
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| JamieBennett | I can get p.m.o | 17:44 |
| aquatix | i can haz p.m.o? | 17:44 |
| * qwerty12_N800 haz pms | 17:44 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | sorry, i had to. | 17:44 |
| Khertan | http://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.startaid.com%2Freview%2F6472323%2FDesktop-Data-SSU---af---Trac.html&ei=3Ra0SKerJZWi0gXqhs3qCA&usg=AFQjCNHBt9qI2EVfzagLFs9W0dSvzvawBQ&sig2=QwwQs96VdMRHVF-P_IG1ZA | 17:44 |
| * jumpula just went to scary visual place | 17:44 | |
| Khertan | ? :) | 17:44 |
| aquatix | qwerty12_N800: you'er a fake lady you! | 17:44 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | oh noez, the secret iz out! | 17:45 |
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| pupnik | qwerty12_N800: has perfect maemo superiority | 17:49 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | http://pastebin.com/m5ce689c4 - if you are observant, you will know what i'm hinting at | 17:49 |
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| Khertan | qwerty12_N800: don't see | 17:52 |
| qwerty12_N800 | pupnik: hardly :p. i just have the nitro package and was signed up to dsm-devel :p | 17:52 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Khertan: search maemo | 17:52 |
| Khertan | :) | 17:53 |
| Khertan | i ve see :) | 17:53 |
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| qwerty12 | packages.debian.org is such a slow pos. it's faster to go to http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/ instead :rolleyes: | 18:01 |
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| XTL | Do those compare somehow? | 18:03 |
| qwerty12 | packages.debian.org gets its source tgz's from there | 18:03 |
| jott | XTL: packages.debian.org is a search frontend for packages while ftp.debian.org is a file archive for packages... | 18:08 |
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| jott | but you could always use mirrors instead of hammering the main site :) | 18:10 |
| Mek | hmm... is it normal to not receive a reply for > 4 days to get my blog on planet maemo? :) | 18:12 |
| jott | Mek: x-fade is still on vacation :) | 18:12 |
| Mek | ah, he handles that too? :) | 18:12 |
| jott | i bet :) | 18:12 |
| ariya | jott: hola | 18:12 |
| jott | hello ariya. | 18:13 |
| ariya | jott: I also asked jens to join this channel, but maybe he's busy | 18:15 |
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| jott | ariya: ah i see. yes, would be great. | 18:15 |
| ariya | jott: at least he's on the mailing list | 18:15 |
| jott | ariya: yes. the closer the modifications stays under tt supervision the better. | 18:17 |
| jott | ariya: btw, do you have concrete plans for the paint engine yet? | 18:17 |
| ariya | jott: yeah, but probably I will do it after two weeks (I have my defense exam next week) | 18:18 |
| ariya | jott: from a glance, it looks promising | 18:18 |
| jott | ariya: i fear xrender stays a bottleneck, maybe there is a way around it (improve the no_xrender path eg.). | 18:19 |
| ariya | jott: I am not really an X11 person, but usually I stay away from xrender as far as possible :-) | 18:20 |
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| jott | ariya: hehe, yeah i tried to just disable it but the results look rather bizarre (no anti-aliasing, no alpha-blending, etc.) | 18:21 |
| ariya | jott: my plan is to use the raster engine, and just blit the end result | 18:22 |
| jott | i guess reusing the qws/fb stuff would be nice. | 18:22 |
| ariya | jott: we're optimizing our raster engine like crazy for 4.5 :-) | 18:22 |
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| jott | sweet. and about time ;) | 18:22 |
| ariya | jott: and if finally a decent GL driver is available, we can use that as well | 18:23 |
| ariya | jott: 4.5 will be a wonderful release w.r.t to graphics | 18:23 |
| jott | nice. haven't looked at it yet. | 18:23 |
| ariya | relax, not yet pushed to the snapshot | 18:24 |
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| jott | ariya: what kind of target would that be when using the raster engine with x11? a completely new one or just the no_xrender path? | 18:29 |
| ariya | jott: just as if you paint to a QImage, then call drawImage to blit it to the screen | 18:29 |
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| jott | ariya: yeah sure, just wonder where it would end up as it's neither really x11 nor framebuffer :) | 18:32 |
| ariya | jott: does not really matter, either we blit using XPutImage/whatever or write to the fb | 18:32 |
| ariya | jott: the bottleneck is likely during the painting (unless our graphics bandwidth is really stupid) | 18:33 |
| manyoso | i have a version that does this i'll post it soon | 18:33 |
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| manyoso | jott: the technique ariya talks about is how i was able to get acceptable framerates | 18:33 |
| manyoso | ariya: is there a snapshot of Qt 4.5 with these crazy raster engine improvements? ie, has it made it into the snapshots yet? | 18:34 |
| ariya | manyoso: yeah, you should post it soon :-) | 18:34 |
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| ariya | manyoso: you should "fix" your assertion of Qt being slow there :-P | 18:34 |
| manyoso | if so I'd really like it if we could get some debs of snapshot made for maemo | 18:35 |
| manyoso | ariya: heh, hope it didn't ruffle to many feathers | 18:35 |
| manyoso | the assertion is after all correct | 18:35 |
| ariya | manyoso: I have no problem with the assertion | 18:35 |
| jott | manyoso: ruffeling feathers is good - you see something is done :) | 18:35 |
| manyoso | and i quite clearly stated in the blog post the likely problem was Xrender, not Qt | 18:35 |
| ariya | manyoso: only being afraid (paranoid) that someone (digg/slashdot/etc) gets it "wrong" | 18:36 |
| manyoso | right | 18:36 |
| manyoso | it is a sad state of affairs with Xrender | 18:36 |
| ariya | manyoso: well, Qt is also the fault here, as it does not handle 16-to-16 gracefully | 18:36 |
| manyoso | ariya: right | 18:36 |
| manyoso | i still want my option to load 16 bit qimage's using QImageDecoder and friends | 18:36 |
| ariya | manyoso: improved raster engine will come soon in snapshot, just be patient | 18:37 |
| manyoso | we have 16 bit qimage's with alphachannel now after all | 18:37 |
| manyoso | ariya: can you give me a shout when it lands? | 18:37 |
| ariya | manyoso: likely someone will post a notice anyway on Trolltech Labs | 18:37 |
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| Khertan | bye | 18:55 |
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| manyoso | jott: ariya: see http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3644 | 19:01 |
| jott | manyoso: thanks. | 19:01 |
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| jott | manyoso: how much fps you get with qgears? | 19:03 |
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| ariya | manyoso: cool | 19:03 |
| manyoso | average of 35% increase i think | 19:03 |
| manyoso | over my previous numbers for -image case | 19:04 |
| manyoso | still not great, but better | 19:04 |
| ariya | manyoso: hmm actually I think I didn't explain it clear enough the problem | 19:04 |
| ariya | manyoso: the 32-to-16 a definitely a bottleneck | 19:04 |
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| ariya | manyoso: but even if you painter->drawPixmap(16-bit pixmap), Qt still converts it to 32-bit --> slow | 19:04 |
| manyoso | right | 19:05 |
| manyoso | because Qt's backingstore is 32 | 19:05 |
| ariya | manyoso: not really true | 19:05 |
| manyoso | ? | 19:05 |
| ariya | manyoso: you can skip it using WA_PaintOnScreen, and the problem persists | 19:05 |
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| manyoso | ariya: correct me if i'm wrong, but what i'm doing involves no 32 bit operations | 19:06 |
| manyoso | right? | 19:06 |
| manyoso | both the src and dst paintdevice's are 16 bit | 19:06 |
| manyoso | and then i take care of blitting to screen which means no 32 bit operation there | 19:06 |
| ariya | manyoso: in your example, yes that's true and good. inside Qt, no | 19:07 |
| ariya | manyoso: btw, Qt's backingstore always match that of X. so in Maemo it will be a 16-bit pixmap | 19:07 |
| manyoso | and the reason is the dst paintdevice for QWidget's is 32 bit by default, right? | 19:08 |
| ariya | manyoso: no, it is always the same as X visual | 19:08 |
| manyoso | oh, well, then in that case it is Xrender causing the slowdown then because there is no 32 bit operation | 19:08 |
| ariya | manyoso: not true, I tried disabling Xrender and the problem persists | 19:09 |
| ariya | manyoso: QT_NO_XRENDER is the magic env var | 19:09 |
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| manyoso | ok, so if it is not Xrender and there is no 32 bit operation, then what is going on? | 19:11 |
| ariya | manyoso: Qt does not blit 16-image/pixmap to 16-bit X, instead converting it to 32-bit first | 19:11 |
| manyoso | ugh | 19:11 |
| ariya | manyoso: it's in QX11PixmapData::fromImage, if you want to check | 19:12 |
| manyoso | well, i had no idea it was being that weird | 19:12 |
| manyoso | any idea why on earth it would do that? | 19:12 |
| ariya | manyoso: the reason is 16-bit has many different formats, 555, 565, 1555, and God knows what | 19:12 |
| ariya | manyoso: X is free to define the bit masks as it likes, and then your example will fail | 19:12 |
| manyoso | right | 19:13 |
| ariya | manyoso: so what I will do is to tackle the case of 16-bit X in Maemo only, and forget the rest (meanwhile) | 19:13 |
| manyoso | sure | 19:14 |
| manyoso | QT_OS_HILDON or whatever | 19:14 |
| ariya | manyoso: Q_WS_HILDON | 19:14 |
| manyoso | right, sounds lke a plan | 19:14 |
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| manyoso | X on maemo is 565 RGB | 19:14 |
| ariya | manyoso: if you modify a bit your blog entry to reflect the real problem (not 32-to-16), I would be grateful | 19:14 |
| manyoso | ok | 19:14 |
| ariya | manyoso: hmm, I though it's 555 | 19:15 |
| ariya | manyoso: I guess you're right, it's 565 | 19:15 |
| * ariya loves manyoso's example! | 19:16 | |
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| ariya | manyoso: btw, you don't need to keep m_rasterDevice as a pointer, just normal object | 19:17 |
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| manyoso | "Qt decides to convert all 16 bit pixmaps to 32 bit before blitting even if the source QPaintDevice and the destination QPaintDevice are both 16 bit." | 19:18 |
| manyoso | better summary? | 19:18 |
| ariya | right, thanks | 19:18 |
| manyoso | great | 19:18 |
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| manyoso | ariya: isn't it better to just allocate m_rasterDevice once on the heap? | 19:19 |
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| ariya | manyoso: it will allocate the pixel data from the heap anyway | 19:20 |
| ariya | manyoso: btw, you need XDestroyImage somewhere | 19:20 |
| manyoso | oh hmm | 19:20 |
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| ariya | manyoso: or I wonder if you can cache the XImage, and update the pixel data and re-XPutImage | 19:21 |
| manyoso | how to do that? | 19:21 |
| ariya | manyoso: I dunno, there must be a way of doing that | 19:21 |
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| jott | couldn't you use xshm and make qimage use that memory? | 19:21 |
| ariya | jott: we'll probably get that in 4.5 as well :-) | 19:22 |
| manyoso | that would be nice | 19:22 |
| Mek | any eta for 4.5? :P | 19:22 |
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| ariya | manyoso: so you create a XImage in the constructor, then just refill the pixel data by accessing its 'data' member | 19:23 |
| ariya | Mek: can't comment on that | 19:23 |
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| Khertan_n810 | Hi again | 19:32 |
| Khertan_n810 | how it s possible that gdata never emit a timeout exception | 19:33 |
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| Khertan_n810 | closing the connection while retrieving event is made the call to the function endless | 19:34 |
| Khertan_n810 | s/is | 19:34 |
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| usicow | I just installed the sandbox and Im reading the Diablo Reference Manual as recommended which goes through how to install it.. all went fine.. but how to I start it? | 19:35 |
| ariya | jott: any compiler define now to detect if we're running Qt Maemo? perhaps in the shipped Qt include files? | 19:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | usicow, Scratchbox. | 19:37 |
| jott | ariya: currently Q_WS_HILDON is used everywhere. | 19:37 |
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| ariya | jott: where is defined? which header file? | 19:41 |
| jott | ariya: ugh. seems nowhere :(. | 19:42 |
| jott | this has to be fixed. | 19:42 |
| jott | should go to qglobal.h, right? | 19:42 |
| usicow | GeneralAntilles: err yeah, thats what I meant :) Obviously Im a noob.. so how do I start it? | 19:42 |
| ariya | jott: yes, for Maemo's 4.4.1 possibly? | 19:42 |
| Mek | jott: and at least in one place there is a #if Q_WS_HILDON instead of a #ifdef Q_WS_HILDON... (qmainwindow.h) | 19:42 |
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| ariya | Mek: strange, how is it supposed to work? defined in the .pro file? | 19:44 |
| Mek | no, that one is not supposed to work at all I think... | 19:44 |
| jott | that's clearly a bug. | 19:44 |
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| fijal | hello | 19:54 |
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| fijal | I have a problem setting up network inside my scratchbox | 20:07 |
| fijal | ie how do I do it? | 20:07 |
| fijal | when I was on ADSL everything worked fine, but now it seems that I cannot access network from inside | 20:08 |
| fijal | what can possibly go wrong? | 20:08 |
| Mek | your /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf could be wrong? | 20:08 |
| fijal | that's possible | 20:08 |
| fijal | indeed, worked out | 20:09 |
| fijal | thank you | 20:09 |
| Mek | had the same problem myself some time ago :) | 20:10 |
| fijal | it's fairly confusing to find out what's going on in and out | 20:10 |
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| Stskeeps | would directories in /usr/share/icons/hicolor like 64x64 or 32x32 that doesnt always exist before, cause trouble with GTK's icon lookup stuff? | 20:19 |
| Stskeeps | because i noticed i seem to be missing some icon parts in my maemo messages after i installed some icons into dirs like that | 20:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | The tablet isn't in love with doing a USB hard drive copy and sftp at the same time. | 20:22 |
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| lcuk | jott, ariya :( i see performance limitations are starting to be noticable | 20:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | <3 OTG | 20:29 |
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| CptLaptop | huh | 20:30 |
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| CptLaptop | according to wikipedia the n800 runs the same arm11 cpu as my cell doe | 20:30 |
| CptLaptop | s | 20:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | OMAP2420 | 20:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Typically used in the high-end Nokia N-series devices. | 20:31 |
| CptLaptop | yeah | 20:31 |
| CptLaptop | my cell runs at 369mhz, the n800 on 400... thats not a big difference | 20:31 |
| qwerty12_N800 | nokia symbian phones (s60 v3 ones at least) share the same processor | 20:31 |
| CptLaptop | "high end"... N series run at 320 mhz | 20:31 |
| CptLaptop | most of them anyways | 20:31 |
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| CptLaptop | new E series run 369, along with the 6120, 6220 etc | 20:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | OMAP3430 is 600MHz | 20:32 |
| ariya | lcuk: working on the fix :-) | 20:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | and much more powerful and efficient than ARM11 | 20:32 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, and it should have some headroom too :) | 20:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I was hearing ~900MHz from Pandora | 20:33 |
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| johnx | GeneralAntilles, yeah, me too. crazy, eh? | 20:33 |
| lcuk | ariya :) hope you manage it, though i dont see how you will manage such a large gain. it will be interesting to see | 20:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Scares me shitless, johnx. | 20:33 |
| lcuk | ariya, since you are inside, perhaps you can help push the need for pvr :) https://wiki.maemo.org/Drivers_justification its the one path available for real speedups (at the slight lowering of resolution) | 20:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | TI will be the lord of the rings once they've distributed the OMAP3 to everybody. . . . | 20:34 |
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| johnx | a fast CPU with a big battery attached to the back is what I really want from the world, so I'm pretty thrilled | 20:34 |
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| lcuk | pandora still doesnt have 3d drivers though and that concerns me | 20:35 |
| johnx | lcuk, hmm? if they ship without 3D drivers the devs will be forced to walk the plank... | 20:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, it's being worked out | 20:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Beagle is close | 20:35 |
| johnx | what makes you think they don't have 3D drivers? | 20:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | The issue is more of the sourciness of the drivers than their existence at this point. | 20:35 |
| lcuk | all this "its close" "its coming" "we have private test drivers" makes me grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr | 20:36 |
| lcuk | sourciness be damned, i want binary | 20:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | There are drivers available afaik. | 20:36 |
| lcuk | search their blog for 3d http://www.openpandora.org/blog.php | 20:36 |
| lcuk | Quake2 running in software mode (not using the 3D hardware yet, but still pushing 60fps). | 20:37 |
| johnx | lcuk, drivers won't do you any good without hardware | 20:37 |
| lcuk | they have the omap3 | 20:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://groups.google.com/group/beagleboard/browse_thread/thread/ec1427fdb8f9ef8d | 20:37 |
| lcuk | and we have the omap2 | 20:37 |
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| lcuk | its the same story | 20:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Before the end of the year | 20:37 |
| johnx | and I think the issue is that the drivers support OpenGL ES so some minor porting is required | 20:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | fwiw, Jason Kridner is a TI engineer. | 20:38 |
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| Khertan_n810 | i want a QuadCore Intel CPU in my nit with a zpm to power it ! | 20:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | !!!! | 20:39 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, according to the posting hes got a gmail account | 20:39 |
| lcuk | not official | 20:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, what's your point? | 20:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm just saying, he's a TI employee. | 20:39 |
| johnx | Khertan_n810, I'd settle for a Cortex A8 + 3D powered by a radio-isotope generator :) | 20:39 |
| lcuk | thats im being very down about ever seeing 3d on a little device | 20:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | I want an N900 powered by lcuk on a hamster wheel. :P | 20:39 |
| lcuk | you can get that already | 20:39 |
| Khertan_n810 | johnx: a zpm is better | 20:39 |
| johnx | Khertan_n810, I'm just being realistic :P | 20:40 |
| lcuk | johnx, porting opengl es to what? | 20:40 |
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| Khertan_n810 | johnx: hum ... really ? 3d on 4" screen ? :) | 20:40 |
| johnx | porting quake2 from open GL 1.x to opengl es | 20:40 |
| johnx | Khertan_n810, talk to the pandora guys, not me :D | 20:41 |
| Khertan_n810 | yeah really the most needed thing ... | 20:41 |
| Khertan_n810 | a opengl driver just for a quake port | 20:41 |
| Khertan_n810 | haha :) | 20:41 |
| johnx | Khertan_n810, well the pandora is meant to be a gaming machine...so yeah, 3D acceleration has a place | 20:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Time to hit the road | 20:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | catch everybody later tonight. | 20:41 |
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| * qwerty12_N800 will get a pandora or a n900 depending on which one gets quake 3 first :p | 20:42 | |
| Khertan_n810 | johnx: when we see the pandorabox available in store we could discuss about it ... | 20:42 |
| * lcuk will settle for a device running tuxracer in hardware | 20:42 | |
| lcuk | no porting required | 20:42 |
| Khertan_n810 | but i don t think it s for a near futur | 20:42 |
| johnx | Khertan_n810, fair enough | 20:43 |
| Khertan_n810 | hum ? how they resolv the battery problem ? | 20:44 |
| johnx | Khertan_n810, hmm? what battery problem? | 20:44 |
| qwerty12_N800 | It runs on 20 9v batteries strapped 2 ur back | 20:45 |
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| johnx | it has a couple big li-ions I think | 20:45 |
| lcuk | OMG lions! quick, get in the caqr | 20:46 |
| johnx | OMG, da lionses alreedy gat in da caqr !!! | 20:47 |
| * qwerty12_N800 drives a caqr | 20:47 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | lol | 20:47 |
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| Khertan_n810 | the same as the sony firestarter | 20:47 |
| Khertan_n810 | ? | 20:47 |
| pjv | anybody here use vagalume in gnome? | 20:47 |
| johnx | cougar + jaguar + car = caqr? | 20:47 |
| lcuk | alternatively i could just have made a typo :P | 20:48 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | o rly | 20:49 |
| lcuk | ya rly | 20:49 |
| qwerty12_N800 | no wai!!! | 20:49 |
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| Khertan_n810 | Approximately 10 hours of runtime for video / general applications and 100 hours for music playback | 20:50 |
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| Khertan_n810 | this was not what they have planned a year ago | 20:50 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | man the specs of the pandora are getting me sprung. it depends on how retarded nokia are with source regarding the n900 that will sway my decision on what to buy | 20:51 |
| texel | Mm. Yeah, I saw the pandora recently. VERY tempting. | 20:51 |
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| texel | Much moreso than anything Nokia could pony up with, based upon their current strategy of browbeating the OSS folks with "it's business, therefore it's proprietery." | 20:52 |
| Khertan_n810 | it s look like a zaurus | 20:52 |
| lcuk | i find it hard to believe nokia arent working on similar spec machines | 20:52 |
| Khertan_n810 | lcuk: i think there are | 20:52 |
| lcuk | all the signs point towards it :) | 20:52 |
| texel | Which is utter crap. =op | 20:52 |
| texel | (nokia's policy) | 20:52 |
| Khertan_n810 | 140x83x27mm[4] | 20:53 |
| Khertan_n810 | ouch it s the size of an umpc | 20:53 |
| lcuk | i *like* the 810 form factor, i dont need something which flips open like a laptop | 20:53 |
| Khertan_n810 | lcuk: which signs ? | 20:53 |
| qwerty12_N800 | i like "CPU intensive apps/games/emus can just kill kDrive when ran, set their CPU speed, have the system to themselves and just reload kDrive on exit. " - on the n800, dsmetool will reboot if you do that, and the framebuffer is so shit, it's not even worth disabling watchdog just to do that | 20:53 |
| Khertan_n810 | i prefer the form factor of the n810 too ! | 20:54 |
| lcuk | Khertan_n810, look at the 3d stuff we got told, the ui/next gen OS spec they are aiming for (qt) etc and then look at the capabilities of the current machine | 20:54 |
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| lcuk | khertan, i draw and write on mine all the time, and have it perfectly flat with my wrist resting at same level as the screen | 20:55 |
| lcuk | with a fold out it would be difficult to achieve and i wouldnt be able to do the same | 20:55 |
| Khertan_n810 | lcuk: qt is a regression | 20:55 |
| texel | Mm. I recently bought a Zaurus SL-CL3200 from Japan and find that particular issue to be rather annoying. | 20:55 |
| lcuk | not really, its a more elegent weapon for a 3d world | 20:56 |
| texel | Thankfully it rotates around, so it's better than one that does not. | 20:56 |
| Khertan_n810 | lcuk: lol i m used it heavily too remember that if i ve made pygtkeditor is for me primary | 20:56 |
| Khertan_n810 | s/primary/mainly | 20:56 |
| lcuk | Khertan_n810, not quite the same way i do - i DRAW on it and you cannot draw with your wrist resting on a surface and the device 1/2cm up | 20:57 |
| lcuk | http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7308/810crateinkx8.jpg | 20:57 |
| Khertan_n810 | lcuk: qt 3dworld ? there is no link | 20:57 |
| lcuk | http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/8233/810crateanglexe7.jpg | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: how was lxde btw? | 20:58 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, works really nice | 20:58 |
| johnx | just a simple bar on the bottom with a menu and openbox for window management | 20:59 |
| johnx | not very configurable | 20:59 |
| johnx | but I think that's ok | 20:59 |
| johnx | it's *really* light | 20:59 |
| johnx | works great on my zaurus with 64MB RAM | 20:59 |
| Stskeeps | *nod* | 20:59 |
| Stskeeps | so we should make a nit-env-lxde too? ;) | 20:59 |
| lcuk | Khertan_n810, those pics are what my 810 lives in most of the time, as you can see my hand rests on level with the screen | 20:59 |
| Khertan_n810 | lcuk: this is to maintain your n810 with your neck using a rope ? | 20:59 |
| Stskeeps | i'm working on nit-env-gnome-basic atm | 20:59 |
| Stskeeps | i hate scrollkeeper already | 21:00 |
| lcuk | lol heh, no - the holes are artifacts of the routing process | 21:00 |
| lcuk | but thats a damned good idea :D | 21:00 |
| Khertan_n810 | hihi | 21:00 |
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| lcuk | i best show this one as well ;) http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1603/810cratelaptopmodetc6.jpg | 21:01 |
| Khertan_n810 | ah ... now i understand what is the purpose | 21:03 |
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| lcuk | no i never use it in laptop mode :P its mainly for holding and resting on - and its perfect for lying in bed reading | 21:03 |
| Khertan_n810 | i m trying to do the same thing with a 22" monitor and a usb keyboard and mouse | 21:03 |
| Khertan_n810 | to use it at home | 21:04 |
| lcuk | it rests on my chest and doesnt need holding heavily and i dont have the hassle of dropping it or touching the screen | 21:04 |
| lcuk | Khertan_n810, how are you outputting the screen data - have you got a usb->vga? | 21:04 |
| texel | Funny how you guys just griped about the size of the Pandora, yet are increasing the physical dimensions of the N810. =op | 21:05 |
| lcuk | im not afraid of the physical size | 21:05 |
| lcuk | i need flatness | 21:05 |
| * texel nods | 21:05 | |
| Khertan_n810 | nope ... it s too expensive | 21:05 |
| Khertan_n810 | (for my wife at least) | 21:05 |
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| lcuk | i'll buy your wife | 21:06 |
| lcuk | :D | 21:06 |
| Khertan_n810 | i ve recycled an old p2 600Mhz computer | 21:06 |
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| * texel 's brain just did a triple-backflip | 21:06 | |
| lcuk | lol | 21:06 |
| Khertan_n810 | texel: if i want a netbook i bought a netbook | 21:06 |
| Khertan_n810 | :) | 21:06 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Khertan_n810: i binned my p3 733mhz computer :p | 21:06 |
| texel | Heh | 21:06 |
| Khertan_n810 | so i m trying many solution | 21:07 |
| Khertan_n810 | x11vnc .... very very slow | 21:07 |
| texel | Khertan_n810: yeah, but a netbook is about as closed as you can get, whereas a Pandora... well.. you get the idea. =o) | 21:07 |
| lcuk | my missus has a higher spec desktop than me :( her bleeding sims 2 + super update packs every 3 bleed you dry weeks need all the horsepower it can get | 21:07 |
| Khertan_n810 | texel: a netbook closed ? | 21:08 |
| lcuk | khertan, vnc was not slow when i tested it - optimize it on the desktop side | 21:08 |
| texel | Khertan_n810: closed as in source. | 21:08 |
| texel | Khertan_n810: as in specs, etc. | 21:08 |
| texel | Khertan_n810: netbooks == only EPOC32. | 21:08 |
| lcuk | im pretty certain a screwdriver can cure that | 21:08 |
| Khertan_n810 | texel: pandora hardware is open source ? | 21:08 |
| texel | Khertan_n810: AFAICT, yes. | 21:09 |
| Khertan_n810 | i dont think that ti open the source of their cpuj | 21:09 |
| texel | That was the idea from the start, IIRC. | 21:09 |
| Khertan_n810 | s/cpuj/cpu | 21:09 |
| lcuk | i REALLY want an arm desktop | 21:09 |
| johnx | lcuk, well the beagleboard is a good start | 21:09 |
| texel | Khertan_n810: maybe not the schematics for the CPU, no, but the CPU is well documented and the specs are available for free for the one they're using, IIRC. | 21:09 |
| johnx | or find a netwinder :) | 21:09 |
| lcuk | i do native compilation already on my 810, but its slower than i want (at least to do c++ or other languages) | 21:10 |
| johnx | texel, I believe the schematics aren't open, but documentation on what pins do what is | 21:10 |
| Khertan_n810 | texel: specs of a ti cpu available freely ? are u sure ? | 21:10 |
| lcuk | johnx, agreed, but its not exactly plug and play - i want a complete oob experience | 21:10 |
| johnx | lcuk, you plug it in to power and the other end in to DVI... | 21:10 |
| lcuk | Khertan_n810, the omap3 apparantly has more docs available than any other | 21:10 |
| texel | johnx: hm. That would be too bad. I was under the apparent misunderstanding that it was as open as possible. | 21:11 |
| Khertan_n810 | oh ! great thing | 21:11 |
| johnx | lcuk, and you're already great at making wooden cases...so | 21:11 |
| lcuk | and what OS/drives/installation do you need? | 21:11 |
| johnx | lcuk, there's an angstrom image for it currently | 21:11 |
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| lcuk | for it, or on it? | 21:11 |
| johnx | lcuk, debian would be easy | 21:11 |
| johnx | lcuk, aaah, I see what you're getting at | 21:11 |
| Khertan_n810 | hum .... ... .. i hope n900 will get vga out | 21:12 |
| lcuk | no, thats not easy - remember i dont actually know linux yet | 21:12 |
| Khertan_n810 | lcuk: easy as a n810 | 21:12 |
| texel | VGA out on any device Nokia produces is doubtful in my mind. | 21:12 |
| johnx | lcuk, send me one and I promise to make you a nice FS image you can just unzip onto a SD card :) | 21:12 |
| texel | debootstrap to the rescue! =o) | 21:12 |
| lcuk | :) johnx, i would love to say sure, and i dont doubt you would. money is an issue though | 21:13 |
| qwerty12_N800 | johnx: good plan, zip, not tar + bz2 for the n00bs :p | 21:13 |
| manyoso | is there any special hook or signal that maemo/linux kernel will give an app if an allocation fails on out-of-memory error? | 21:13 |
| lcuk | zip? | 21:13 |
| johnx | qwerty12_N800, what do you think the z in bz2 is for? :P | 21:13 |
| texel | Hm. Does the zip format contain support for POSIX filesystem permissions? O.o | 21:13 |
| lcuk | my dad says i need it as exemacutable | 21:14 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | johnx: but then you would bunzip, not unzip :p | 21:14 |
| * johnx rolls his eyes | 21:14 | |
| johnx | bunch a purists... | 21:14 |
| lcuk | "hai, please send me self egstrkting file to get vista on my nokia n810 phone" | 21:14 |
| lcuk | my meail address is qwerty12@gmail :P | 21:15 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | not quite :p | 21:16 |
| str8edge | does anyone have packages for the pimlico apps? | 21:17 |
| moontiger | str8edge, they are on their website | 21:17 |
| str8edge | for diablo? | 21:17 |
| johnx | chinook packages will work | 21:18 |
| str8edge | johnx: how do I install them? | 21:18 |
| lcuk | the same way you install any other .deb? | 21:18 |
| johnx | what problem are you having? I haven't tried installing those packages specifically in diablo but they should be fine | 21:19 |
| qwerty12_N800 | how iz dat!?!!!!!! | 21:19 |
| moontiger | they arent as good as they actually look imo and i uninstalled them by ymmv | 21:19 |
| str8edge | k i'll try. | 21:19 |
| moontiger | :) | 21:19 |
| texel | $ sudo dpkg -i *.deb | 21:19 |
| moontiger | by = but | 21:19 |
| * lcuk just clicks on pacage in file manager | 21:19 | |
| texel | Heh -- sorry. I'm a sysadmin by trade. =op | 21:19 |
| lcuk | it works with packages as well | 21:19 |
| texel | CLIs are in my blood. =o) | 21:20 |
| str8edge | i'm very familiar with Linux.. RHCT, been using debian since '97. just new to the n810 | 21:20 |
| lcuk | im a developer - coding and functions arei n my blood, but i still hate the command line | 21:20 |
| texel | RHCT? | 21:21 |
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| moontiger | thats cos windows is sill in you lcu ;) | 21:21 |
| johnx | where was that thread for posting pics of places you've used your NIT? | 21:21 |
| * lcuk also has lots of typo cells in his bloodstream | 21:21 | |
| mgedmin | repeat after me: "the command line is a developer's best friend" | 21:21 |
| mgedmin | hi, lcuk | 21:21 |
| texel | Hehehe =o) | 21:21 |
| lcuk | hi mgedmin :) | 21:21 |
| johnx | ...cause I have a great one to add: http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnxx/2800651680/ | 21:21 |
| CptLaptop | abiword is a peculiar word for an app that doesnt read .doc | 21:21 |
| Stskeeps | http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian/nit-env-gnome-basic.png <- neat | 21:21 |
| johnx | CptLaptop, did you install the .doc plugin? | 21:22 |
| qwerty12_N800 | one more x and i wouldn't be allowed to look! | 21:22 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, :) thats nice | 21:22 |
| * CptLaptop prentends not to be stupid, epically fails | 21:22 | |
| CptLaptop | thanks johnx | 21:22 |
| johnx | qwerty12_N800, some places have a 6 character minimum username :/ | 21:22 |
| str8edge | added the chinook repo. | 21:22 |
| * CptLaptop goes to look for said plugin | 21:22 | |
| johnx | CptLaptop, it might not exist for the tablets yet :) | 21:22 |
| CptLaptop | :( | 21:22 |
| qwerty12_N800 | johnx: :) | 21:22 |
| lcuk | johnx :O you used your n800 on the surface of mars :O | 21:23 |
| CptLaptop | i had hope for 4 seconds | 21:23 |
| johnx | CptLaptop, just hold out for a bit then | 21:23 |
| CptLaptop | you cimpiling atm? :p | 21:23 |
| johnx | nope. you could though :P | 21:23 |
| johnx | or install one of the many tools to convert .docs into something reasonable | 21:24 |
| johnx | or use google docs to convert it | 21:24 |
| CptLaptop | like? | 21:24 |
| CptLaptop | google docs is slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow | 21:24 |
| lcuk | .doc is a reasonable format now isnt it | 21:24 |
| johnx | antiword comes to mind, IIRC | 21:24 |
| lcuk | its openish? | 21:24 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | antiword is packaged for maemo with a gui | 21:24 |
| lcuk | oh sorry, im thinking of .txt ;) | 21:24 |
| johnx | lcuk, yeah, a 38KB binary file to contain the word "hello" unformatted sounds pretty reasonable... | 21:24 |
| CptLaptop | rofl | 21:25 |
| lcuk | johnx, as long as the ratio goes down and its not 8kb per character im ok | 21:25 |
| CptLaptop | iKB is the text, 37 is setting for the tiny annoying paperclip | 21:25 |
| str8edge | Thanks.. I didn't realize I could use the chinook repo.. dates, contacts and tasks are installed! | 21:25 |
| lcuk | str8edge, dont tell anyone else about that though | 21:26 |
| str8edge | lcuk: hehe, why not? ;-0 | 21:26 |
| lcuk | cos then the secret will be out | 21:27 |
| lcuk | now, ive ogt some hacking to be done | 21:27 |
| lcuk | back later after i fix liqbase :S | 21:27 |
| CptLaptop | people on ITT keep saYING abiword does doc :/ | 21:28 |
| johnx | CptLaptop, it does on the desktop. it should real soon now on the tablets | 21:29 |
| johnx | it's just a matter of packaging | 21:29 |
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| CptLaptop | yeah i know johnx, problem is the itt people seems to use doc on tablets | 21:30 |
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| johnx | well either they use antiword or don't know what they're talking about | 21:31 |
| johnx | I just launder my .docs through gmail's convert when I need to | 21:31 |
| CptLaptop | antiword isnt in any repo i see | 21:31 |
| qwerty12_N800 | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/docreader/ | 21:33 |
| Stskeeps | that's funny, matchbox-keyboard isn't completely anal in GNOME | 21:33 |
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| Xamusk | is there any GUI toolkit that runs both in maemo and in PocketPCs or Palm? | 21:38 |
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| CptLaptop | wooooo docreader works :D | 21:38 |
| * CptLaptop runs in circles making a happyface¨ | 21:38 | |
| CptLaptop | thanks @ random ppl | 21:38 |
| johnx | good deal CptLaptop | 21:39 |
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| johnx | now tell people to stop spamming you with .docs :) | 21:39 |
| CptLaptop | i only need to view them not edit.. fucking classfronter, college, and docs | 21:39 |
| Xamusk | ha, I have even more trouble with .ppt | 21:40 |
| manyoso | woe, someone took down qt4.garage.maemo.org | 21:40 |
| CptLaptop | i just ignore ppt | 21:40 |
| johnx | yeah, I was almost screwed the other day except that my phone had a built in .doc viewer | 21:40 |
| Xamusk | though usually only .doc stuff is not useless | 21:40 |
| CptLaptop | yeah i have "office" on my cell too but small screen | 21:40 |
| Xamusk | yesterday I opened up a .doc in OO.o and everything was broken (document full of math stuff) | 21:41 |
| johnx | Seriously, who keeps maps in .doc format | 21:41 |
| * johnx stabs out wildly | 21:41 | |
| moontiger | CptLaptop, i have that too and even tho it sounds useful its actually useless | 21:41 |
| Xamusk | johnx, the same type of people that puts walkthrough instructions with pictures in Excel | 21:41 |
| * moontiger gasps | 21:42 | |
| usicow | how do I uninstall the sdk scratchbox? | 21:42 |
| moontiger | they do that? | 21:42 |
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| johnx | I have picsel viewer on my cell phone and it worked really fast and pretty much flawlessly | 21:42 |
| Xamusk | moontiger, yes, unfortunately | 21:42 |
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| moontiger | johnx what fone you have? | 21:43 |
| Xamusk | it was like a manual... and the darn thing had a lot of MS-Excel-only stuff, like those comic-like boxes | 21:43 |
| qwerty12_N800 | a samsung i guess | 21:43 |
| johnx | Sony Ericson W51S | 21:43 |
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| moontiger | is it a wm device? | 21:43 |
| johnx | nope | 21:43 |
| moontiger | and still picsel? | 21:43 |
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| johnx | it's a "dumb phone" with a ton of features | 21:43 |
| qwerty12_N800 | bastards, se don't put picsel on their european/american phones :D | 21:43 |
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| johnx | qwerty12_N800, heh. I have gps with a nice maps program too. OTA vector downloads and everything | 21:44 |
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| CptLaptop | i got an E51 with quickoffice...does thejob when i need it to | 21:44 |
| johnx | I have "local search" ... if I could figure out how to use it. HA | 21:44 |
| qwerty12_N800 | johnx: I hate you :p. | 21:44 |
| moontiger | <--- has a blackjack with wm6 | 21:44 |
| johnx | qwerty12_N800, this phone is pretty darn ugly though... | 21:45 |
| johnx | I'm really looking forward to the Android phones | 21:45 |
| moontiger | but they're all java | 21:45 |
| qwerty12_N800 | johnx: features over looks for me :).i really like se's docomo phones | 21:45 |
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| johnx | qwerty12_N800, this is AU KDDI | 21:45 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | johnx: I like their docomo phones :p. symbian foma is better than that uiq crap they put out here... | 21:46 |
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| johnx | qwerty12_N800, I honestly don't know what OS mine has. I wouldn't be surprised if it was proprietary... | 21:47 |
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| CptLaptop | s60 ftw | 21:48 |
| CptLaptop | if only the active desktop was open | 21:48 |
| johnx | qwerty12_N800, it reminds me of US "dumb-phones" more than symbian or winmo or palm | 21:48 |
| qwerty12_N800 | johnx: not sure about au kddi, but their european non smartphones are enea ose, and their european smart phones are symbian uiq and docomo phones are symbian foma | 21:49 |
| johnx | I'd bet enea ose then | 21:50 |
| johnx | it's really pretty basic and all the apps seem to be java | 21:50 |
| qwerty12_N800 | probably is | 21:51 |
| johnx | so you don't have to be too jealous :P | 21:51 |
| qwerty12_N800 | my enea ose w810 is patched to run elves :> | 21:51 |
| johnx | here's a pic of it if you're interested: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/cellphones/sony-ericsson-w51s-brings-style-back-to-the-clamshell-233557.php | 21:52 |
| johnx | boxy seemed to be the style last year | 21:52 |
| qwerty12_N800 | ooh, nice | 21:53 |
| Xamusk | talking about winmo and stuff, is there any GUI toolkit that runs both in maemo and in PocketPC or Palm? | 21:53 |
| johnx | Xamusk, I'd be really surprised if there was | 21:54 |
| qwerty12_N800 | johnx: i bet you bought the pink one :p | 21:54 |
| Xamusk | maybe Tkinter? | 21:54 |
| jott | Xamusk: Qt runs on maemo and pocketpc not on palm though. | 21:54 |
| johnx | qwerty12_N800, nah, it was out of stock. :( had to go with black :P | 21:54 |
| CptLaptop | 2.7" o_0 | 21:54 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lol johnx | 21:54 |
| Xamusk | jott, thanks, I don't really need both PocketPC and Palm, just one or the other | 21:54 |
| Xamusk | more like Maemo and (PocketPC or Palm) | 21:55 |
| Xamusk | unfortunately, I never saw anything about existing PyQT for neither maemo nor pocket | 21:55 |
| jott | Xamusk: i doubt pocketpc will see a pyqt. under maemo it should run with a little effort. | 21:56 |
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| Xamusk | too bad | 21:56 |
| Xamusk | I suck at C/C++ | 21:56 |
| tank-man | theres a palmos vm | 21:58 |
| Xamusk | unfortunately, PalmOS GUIs are the ones which suck more than the others | 22:04 |
| Xamusk | including that memory resources limitation thing | 22:04 |
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| moontiger | does anyone have any experience with a nokia n78 | 22:05 |
| konttori | Xamusk: I've had pyqt on maemo | 22:06 |
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| konttori | you should as the qt guys to build it along with the qt packages | 22:06 |
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| konttori | Runs really quite well. | 22:06 |
| Xamusk | konttori, how did you do it? | 22:07 |
| jott | konttori: problem is, that there is no pyqt for wince/pocketpc | 22:07 |
| konttori | so, who cares about wince ;) | 22:07 |
| jott | Xamusk seems to care :) | 22:07 |
| konttori | Xamusk: I received the packages from someone who had made already them | 22:07 |
| Xamusk | oh | 22:07 |
| konttori | can't remember who | 22:07 |
| jott | shouldn't be too hard. | 22:08 |
| jott | you probably just have to get sip running. | 22:08 |
| konttori | But, anyway, riverbanks computing has all the tools to do it easily | 22:08 |
| Xamusk | the problem is that I have a maemo, but my teacher wants my app to run on either and iPaq or in a LifeDrive | 22:08 |
| Xamusk | and I'm more used to PyGTK | 22:09 |
| konttori | well, pyqt is really easy to work with | 22:09 |
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| jott | Xamusk: install linux on the ipaq :P | 22:10 |
| Xamusk | jott, I probably could, though that would probably cause me more trouble than I already have | 22:10 |
| jott | hehe maybe ;) | 22:11 |
| konttori | make the app with java? | 22:11 |
| Xamusk | since, last time I checked, Linux on PDAs not designed for it sucked a lot, if it didn't brick the device | 22:11 |
| Xamusk | huh, if it's hard to learn a new GUI toolkit, imagine a new language | 22:11 |
| Xamusk | hehehehe, maybe I could give Jython a try :) | 22:12 |
| jott | hm swt seems to run on pocketpc | 22:12 |
| jott | (as for the java route :) | 22:12 |
| flo_lap | re | 22:13 |
| jott | hello flo_lap | 22:14 |
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| Xamusk | gotta go, thanks | 22:17 |
| Xamusk | I saw some reports that wxPython "may" work on both, though I have to investigate | 22:21 |
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| lbt | kolab -- aaargh! | 23:52 |
| moontiger_ | ? | 23:55 |
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| lbt | I want a groupware server for the home | 23:58 |
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| moontiger | ahhhhh | 23:59 |
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