IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-08-26

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GeneralAntillesNavi, easyroot and becomeroot are deprecated00:26
infobotmethinks rootsh is an easy way to get root and it's found here:
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lopzhola :)00:43
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mavhcis it me or does rootsh not add any of the /sbin type things to the path?00:54
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toti_Hey, I'm trying to use a usb webcam with my N810, does anybody have any idea how to do that or ever did that01:11
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moontigeris there any reason why i wouldnt format my external sd card as ext3 on the n810?01:50
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lcukmoontiger, only needs fat if you want to use it in windows01:51
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lcukive got mine as ext201:52
jott~lart garage for its svn performance01:52
* infobot forces garage to use Outlook Express for its svn performance01:52
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lcukheh jott, infobot might have just sped up access :D01:52
jotti honestly fear the contrary :P01:53
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moontigerdont use windows so cool :)02:16
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GeneralAntillesHey, Jaffa.02:23
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: bedding now. Weekend of downtime after a server upgrade's component's failed after 12 hours and an expensive GPRS connection between me & the (real) world.02:27
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darkblue_Bso I am just looking through the repos on a newly updated N800.. I see something called maemo-python-env 1.1.0-2.. with all sorts of python stuff02:46
darkblue_B"for scratchbox".. any context on that?  more than just face value for the python things that are listed02:47
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darkblue_BI just want the gtkpy libs to be available on the N800..02:48
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gregoroviusanybody knows if there's a way to have modest and/or mnotify warn me of new mails in folders other than inbox through imap?03:04
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GeneralAntillesgregorovius, not that I've noticed.03:08
GeneralAntillesCould make a fair enhancement request, although it sounds a little heavy for the client.03:08
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gregoroviusit's not that modest doesn't notify me of mails in other folders... it doesn't check until I click on them, so it'll never find out by itself03:09
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darkblue_Bwell, this pygtk app I tried worked it seems03:16
darkblue_Bso I'll defer on that big package03:17
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esworpwhat the swankiest apps out there these days for the tablets?  I'd love to hear what some of the folks here would say..03:37
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Andrewfblackhey Khertan check your email03:59
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befr0dhey, is it possible to use kmplayer in fullscreen?04:21
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jottbefr0d: press the "fullscreen" key?! :)04:27
jottworksforme :/04:29
befr0dI've just installed it04:29
jotti ocassionally use it to watch the worldtv99 streams.04:30
befr0dyeah, that's what I want to see04:31
befr0doh, it worked now04:31
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crashanddie"We are currently looking to fill the following position: RIP - Tech Director"04:57
crashanddieNow what the fuck do you make of that !04:57
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darkblue_Bso I just loaded on the Noka N800.. it loads and runs, but no maps.. wondering if anyone knows anything about it05:07
darkblue_Bhmm actually I found a wiki page on it..05:07
darkblue_Bits part of OpenStreetMap05:07
darkblue_Blooks like it wants a GPS.. I have a N80005:07
darkblue_B.. so no GPS05:08
darkblue_BI wonder if the N810 is it? runs it05:08
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moontigerdarkblue_B, do you not have an external GPS?05:50
shaprIs there some way to setup WinXP as a BT PAN server so I can ssh from cygwin to my N800?05:50
shaprOr maybe the other way around, can my N800 be a BT PAN server?05:50
moontigerXP doesnt do bluetooth properly at all afaik05:51
GAN800wifi? usbnet?05:51
shapry0 gen05:53
shaprGAN800: Can my winxp laptop do AP wifi mode?05:54
GAN800Howdy, shapr05:54
* GAN800 doesn't do Windows05:54
shaprI wish I didn't...05:54
shaprBut I do windows at work, and I need my linux fix!05:54
GAN800The N800 should be fine for whatever, dunno about XP.05:54
shaprCan the N800 do wifi ap mode?05:54
GAN800You could always do adhoc if it came down to it05:55
shaprI thought xp didn't support that?05:55
GAN800No, doesn't support master05:55
GAN800Crap wifi drivers. . . .05:55
shaprNo kidding05:55
shaproh, and it can't handle SDHC cards larger than 4GB.05:55
shaprFor example, my 16GB SDHC cards are linux-only at this point.05:55
shaprBut it's nice to have 32GB total in my N80005:55
* GAN800 needs more storage05:56
GAN800I just got gphoto2 going05:56
shaprI have 750GB on my desktop.05:56
GAN800Turned into my camera unloading device.05:56
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Gracklejohnx, going to try out testdisk now.06:14
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Gracklethat was impressively easy.06:26
Gracklenow to boot a livecd and chroot into the system so i can reinstall grub06:27
Gracklewow that is not even necessary06:31
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GrackleFuck yeah.06:37
GrackleThat was so easy I almost want to do it again.06:37
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moontigerif i read about one more "social networking life-streaming aggregation" service i will puke :|06:53
GAN800It's gotten just a bit out of hand.06:53
moontigershapr, do you have a smartfone?06:55
gregoroviusI can't find a media player I'm happy about =/07:00
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GAN800There are only about a thousand of them.07:03
gregoroviuscanola has a couple of really annoying bugs07:05
moontigerwhy do some people just not get it? sending me a 2400x3200 image for their blog profile image??!!??07:05
gregoroviusmediabox is fine, but it sometimes goes nuts07:05
moontigeri like mediabox07:05
gregoroviusand I'm not a fan of its interface07:06
moontigerreally? ive had no problems with it07:06
gregoroviusie, when i'm browsing for an album, why should I do it in a tiny strip in the left side?07:06
moontigeri think its impossible to make an interface that would work for everybodys way of doing media to be honest07:06
gregoroviuscanola is my cup of tea there07:07
moontigerit is purdy to be sure07:07
moontigerukmp has an interesting idea too i think07:07
GAN800UKMP is dead07:07
GAN800Well, uh, konttori is working for the big N these days.07:08
GAN800Not really the time for it anymore. ;)07:08
moontigeroh doh! he was talking about making a good new version too :(07:08
gregoroviusukmp looks nice on screenshots, but I didn't like its look and feel07:08
moontigermaybe a lightweight canola would be good07:09
moontigeri was thinking of an email interface similar to that too07:09
moontigermight work07:09
gregoroviuswithout animations and stuff07:09
gregoroviusi'd go for that07:10
GAN800I dunno, maybe he'll pick it up again, I can't speak for him, but the last I heard was that he was stepping aside for Canola.07:10
moontigerhmmmmm ok07:10
moontigerwell i might try to mock up an email app interface in the next week or two to see if the idea would worl07:10
moontigerwork too07:11
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dougtis there a page on wiki on how to recover a device that is in a _restart_ loop?07:31
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Grackle_You'll probably just have to reflash it.07:36
dougtreflash FTW07:36
dougtis there a way to generate a flash based on the current state of your device?07:36
trenkadougt: what did you do BTW?07:36
trenkadougt: does no-lifeguard-resets help?07:37
dougttrenka: typical engineer question... what did _I_ do.07:37
dougti do not know what a no-lifeguard-resets is, but googling now07:37
Grackle_dougt, no, but you can clone the device to an SD card, which has the added benefit of being faster and being easily transferred to a computer. Also, if you screw up your SD card system while on the go, you can always boot the failsafe one in flash.07:37
trenkadougt: if you think that'a wrong question, sorry, I'm keeping silent07:38
dougtGrackle_: that sounds hawt07:38
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dougttrenka: nah.07:38
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dougttrenka: i probably fucked it up; not sure what I did.  I am testing OOM conditions in an app.07:38
Grackle_ dougt07:39
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Grackle_Well, something like that anyway.07:39
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Grackle_It might be better to look around to find diablo specific instructions, I dunno if those work.07:39
dougttime to reflash and cry while doing it.07:40
infoboti guess boot-sd is
GAN800Turn off the watchdogs, pray you have ssh installed and auto-connect enabled.07:41
GAN800otherwise, install bootmenu like I tols you to do the last time. ;)07:42
infobotGAN800 meant: otherwise, install bootmenu like I told you to do the last time. ;)07:42
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mshanyone know if there are any docs on power saving apart from the little section in quality considerations?07:58
mshwondering if say waking up once every 5 secs would differ from say every 1 sec07:58
mshactuallly wait, that doc kinda answers my question :)07:59
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moontigermsh, wouldnt waking up every second use 5 times as much power as every 5 seconds?08:18
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AddisonHeya fellas!  How's everyone tonight?08:19
mshmoontiger: i don't know - at some point it the interval becomes small enough that the cpu won't sleep at all between wakeups i guess08:22
mshdunno what that time interval is though08:22
moontigeri would think it less than 5 secs before powerstep kicks in tho no?08:23
mshyeah, though is it much less than 1 sec?08:23
mshi'm wondering about gpsdriver's frequent wakeups08:24
mshjust drafting a bug report/enh req now08:24
ShadowJKIf you have enough things that wake up every 5 seconds, the CPU ends up unable to sleep anyway08:26
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mshyeah, i'm considering gps logging every 30 or 60secs with the screen sleeping08:28
mshso prob not much awake08:28
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dougtwhere are the watchdogs installed?  where are their config files so I can see what they are trying to do?08:34
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GeneralAntillesMaybe less08:39
GeneralAntillesdougt, lol08:39
GeneralAntillesHARDWARE watchdogs. ;)08:39
dougtGeneralAntilles: come on.  are they looking at processes or something?08:40
GeneralAntillesUm, there's a mailing list post somewhere covering some of what they do.08:40
GeneralAntillesWell, there are several08:40
GeneralAntillesOne is strictly hardware08:40
GeneralAntillesIt kills the device during extended periods of 100% CPU usage08:40
GeneralAntillesThen the other stuff covers xserver, window manager, connectivity and such08:40
GeneralAntillesWhich is what triggers the reboot loops08:41
GeneralAntillesflasher-3.0 --set-rd-flags08:42
GeneralAntilleswill give you a list08:42
GeneralAntillesOMAP, Retu and lifeguard08:42
GeneralAntilleslifeguard would be the process monitor08:43
GeneralAntillesRetu is REALLY low level08:43
GeneralAntillesOMAP deals with device lockups08:44
dougtyeah, i disabled the lifegaurd one and it boots.08:45
dougtnot sure if I should continue using this device as-is, figure out what is wrong, or just reflash.08:45
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GeneralAntillesDoes it boot to a desktop?08:46
dougtcould ssh into too, move files around, launch stuff08:47
GeneralAntillesWell, figure out what the last dozen or so things you did before you restarted were.08:47
GeneralAntillesand start working backwards08:47
dougtscp crap to the media/mmc108:47
dougtyeah, i did something pretty bad, but it usually doesn't kill the device08:48
dougti allocate 4096 blocks until osso_* tells me there is low memory08:48
dougtit is a test app.08:48
GeneralAntillesI don't know enough about the OOM handling to say what could go wrong there.08:49
dougtbtw, the osso memory stuff isn't ideal.08:49
dougtit uses dbus, so your OOM notification is going to be processed by your event loop;08:49
dougtso you will not know you are OOM until you eat events.08:49
GeneralAntillesOut of my league.08:50
GeneralAntillesI'm sure -developers might choke up some reasoning, though.08:50
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* GAN800 continues on the path of total insomnia fail.09:44
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Stskeepsi feel like i'm still asleep, and my headache doesn't help it :P09:45
DekaritaeTry some Stereolab09:45
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GAN800It wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have to drive 5 hours back to school today.09:46
* rm_you starts school on Thursday09:47
Stskeepsstart of semester? i started yesterday :P09:47
* rm_you has been back for a week and a bit09:47
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DekaritaeOk, so I'm selling my N80009:48
DekaritaeAh, it was inevitable. I picked up a Touc hand fell in love09:48
GAN800Why are you telling us?09:48
rm_youwant to sell it to one of us cheap? :P09:49
DekaritaeWell, I was thinking that someone here might be looking to purchase one09:49
* GAN800 STILL can't fathom why anybody REALLY thinks other people are that worried about the device they use.09:49
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StskeepsGAN800: i've just adopted the notion (regarding people using my software, or using someone else's), that it's their choice and i dont really care what they run09:50
Stskeepsso when people say they have a ipod touch or whatever, sure, good for them :P09:51
DekaritaeYus, everyone has their needs09:51
* Stskeeps is just happy with his n80009:51
DekaritaeI wanted to like the N800, but the Touch has the best mobile crossword app I've ever tried09:52
rm_youthe touch doesn't have SSH that i've seen >_>09:52
rm_youthen again, a lot of people don't NEED that on their mobile device :P09:52
GAN800Touch/iPhone just manage to piss me off.09:52
DekaritaeMobileFinder has SFTP09:52
GAN800and any claims towards them being 'more stable' than Maemo are outright lies.09:53
GAN800SFTP != SSH09:53
rm_youI still think Steve Jobs gets his rocks off by seeing just how much shit he can make his loyal fanbase go through and have them continue to worship him09:53
rm_youwhich turns out to be A LOT OF SHIT. :P09:53
Stskeepsthere's prolly a lot of psychological studies related to this09:54
GAN800Eh, the computer stuff isn't bad09:54
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CptLaptopyeah, the monkey and hamlet theory09:54
Stskeepsthe stanford experiment comes to mind09:54
GAN800it's their mobile pursuites which are pure hell.09:54
CptLaptoponly downside of the NITs is the weak cpu imo09:55
GAN800weak compared to what?09:55
GAN800The 'weak' argument is so bogus.09:55
rm_youwait, this CPU is weak? >_>09:55
DekaritaeAnd the lack of commercial support09:55
CptLaptopother ultraportable devices09:55
DekaritaeBut it has a different target market than the iP*09:56
CptLaptopno matter how much i love the thing, its fucking slow09:56
GAN800Downside is lots of badly optimized software.09:56
GAN800Erm, what other ultraportables?09:56
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GAN800UMPCs at twice the size and a 3rd of the battery life?09:56
DekaritaeThe big downside of the Apple side was evident today. They killed the only free Tetris clone on the Apple store due to presumed copyright infringement09:57
GAN800or MIDs at slightly larger and a 3rd of the battery life?09:57
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GAN800Take your pick09:57
CptLaptopthat still doesnt help the fact the tablet is underpowered, as youre right - the other devices have crappy battery, no bt, touchscreen lacking etc etc but if you want to run say unconverted video, or really any app that requires a bit more power, you have to compromise09:57
GAN800There isn't anything else comparable.09:58
CptLaptopnot in the price range09:58
CptLaptopthere should be09:58
GAN800unconverted video works fine here09:58
CptLaptopim talking normal xvid and such not your porn collection :p09:58
rm_youwell, not unconverted bluray rips >_>09:58
GAN800The point is, the OMAP2420 was state of the art for it's time.09:58
CptLaptopyou wont make me believe youre playing 350MB/40 minutes xvid files with action in them "fine"09:59
GAN800So when you say 'weak', you mean, 'mobile CPUs aren't yet up to snuff'09:59
GAN800Because there aint nothin' else better.09:59
CptLaptopmore the line of "the nits are outdated"09:59
bef0rdI'm able to play a DVD RIP as I downloaded it with mplayer pretty well without having to recode it09:59
GAN800outdated to what? OMAP3 hasn't even shipped commercially.09:59
liribef0rd: I don't know if you managed to get pykaraoke to work but I did and I documented it on the wiki so...10:00
GAN800Yes, I am play 400-650 pixel wide xvid in the 600-1100Kbps range fine.10:00
CptLaptopatom or whatnot. i dont care about the technical shit, that snokias job, and frankly your fanboyism is rather funny10:00
moontigerim really happy with the video playback for movies that i get10:00
DekaritaeOn an entirely unrelated note, dmitrygr demontrated that with his Palm SDHC driver, you can daisy chain microSDHC cards to unused GPIO contacts on the Palm TX and add up to 32GB of internal storage independent from the external card10:01
bef0rdliri, ohh, cool, gonna give it a try10:01
GAN800Atom isn't comparable in power usage10:01
GAN800An Atom uses as much juice as the WHOLE GODDAMN TABLET.10:01
liribef0rd: ok cool10:01
liriGeneralAntilles: can you add the howto page to the Category:users list of pages please?10:01
GAN800'Fanboism', there's a classic lame dismissal.10:02
GAN800liri, just add [[Category:Users]] to the bottom.10:02
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liriahh thanks10:03
CptLaptopfine, so the n800 should have a media chip as well then. seeing thats become a big part of what people use it for, that wouldnt be a bad idea for a upgrade10:03
GAN800It HAS a media chip.10:03
rm_youisn't the media chip IN THERE, just not functional?10:03
GAN800Nokia just doesn't use it.10:04
rm_youthat IV whatever?10:04
GAN800Right next to the DSP10:04
moontigernite all :)10:05
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GAN800The CPU isn't weak, it's just underutilized and overburdened by too much desktop-targeted software.10:05
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CptLaptopitt is down10:08
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johnxCptLaptop, not here10:13
CptLaptopnot here either now10:15
CptLaptop7 min ago however i got loading error every time i tried10:15
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CptLaptopwhich fits the fact there ahsnt been a post in 40 minutes10:16
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johnxit seems to go down a lot10:18
CptLaptophavent noticed that10:19
Stskeepsmorn johnx10:19
CptLaptopbut only check it once or twice a day10:19
johnxmornin' Stskeeps10:19
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* Stskeeps finishes last night's debootstrap and hopes it works10:19
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* Stskeeps pops the battery for tests10:22
qwerty12Stskeeps: I was trying to look into and root but I failed because it seems all my apps that are launched from root automatically take the theming settings. Probably an sudoers env thing. But instead of using,you may want to make a quick script that sources /etc/osso-af-init/osso-gtk.defs and runs the zenity.10:23
qwerty12w00t, is as slow as ever10:24
Stskeepswoo, no dead deblet when popping battery \o/10:24
Stskeepsi swear, must be running on a n77010:24
Stskeepsit has been unstable ever since i have used it10:24
qwerty12Give them some credit, the n770 is for use a N80010:24
bef0rdblobby volley is nice :P10:26
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* johnx used to host a samba domain server on hardware a little slower than an n800...10:27
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qwerty12No one has packed libtremor, I'm not going to bother. I'll just use libvorbis :P10:27
Stskeepsi used to code an irc server on a 50mhz, 80mb ram.. which coincided with me starting to drink coffee to wait up for the compiles10:27
qwerty12lol what, even my first computer was a 733MHZ, 128MB ram :P10:28
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jaskadont remember the clock.. but there was 4kB+16kB memory on my first10:29
gomiamqwerty12: you newbies... I had to make do with a 286 until 1996 :-P10:29
gomiamjaska: that sounds like a Z-80 derived10:29
Stskeepsmy first computer was a c64, then i had a 286 with 1mb of ram, then came a 486 50mhz with 80mb ram, and then i jumped to 700mhz at some point10:29
Stskeepsthat was a change10:29
qwerty12gomiam: Hehe, all you people with your old computers :P10:30
jaskagomiam: probably... i was about 4 or so at the time so i dont remember rest of the details :)10:30
Stskeepsbut i learnt from that the art of using machines remotely so i can get cheap equipment nowadays and just ssh into big machines i have access to10:30
gomiamjaska: when I was six my father bought a MSX microcomputer. Unfortunately, he didn't manage to understand it and returned it10:30
bef0rdmine was a 133 mhz with 16mb ram .. Windows 95 was really fast on that10:31
qwerty12Hehe, I used to mess around with an MSX emulator (not the real thing :P) and play some metal gear solid. Until I just put the PS1 versions on my PSP.10:31
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Stskeepsoh, right, i had a 133mhz at some point too. running redhat 5.110:32
bef0rda 14.4 modem :o10:33
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gomiamoh, redhat. SLS 4tw, with a 9600 bps modem (I don't know how I got hold of it)10:33
Stskeepsi tried debian in 95-96 or something. installing from floppies.. i utterly hated dselect back then10:33
bef0rdhah I remember It took me like 5 hours to download a new version of Internet explorer on that machine :|10:34
gomiamStskeeps: true, true. I used to allocate a couple of weekends whenever I installed Debian (in order to dselect my way through)10:34
gomiambef0rd: you were fortunate, it seems. You had a cheap phone connection.10:35
Stskeepsthe worst part is that some of the same frustrations i meet with debian these days, are exactly the same as back then10:35
qwerty12Stskeeps: I've got dselect for maemo somewhere, you want? :P10:35
Stskeepsqwerty12: if i can beat it to pieces with a bat..10:35
gomiamStskeeps: well, what frustrations do you have with Debian yet?10:35
* qwerty12 runs and protects dselect10:35
Stskeepsgomiam: i had one example but i can't recall it right now as i have a bad headache10:36
aquatixgood moaning10:36
Stskeepsbut last i installed debian on a desktop machine, i ran into same problem10:36
JaffaMorning, all10:36
Stskeepsgomiam: nothing directly against debian as such, - i do develop deblet for the tablets ;) just have some run-ins with how things are done at times both philosophically and technically10:37
gomiamStskeeps: you might want to check the testing branch. The installer has gone quite a way forward.10:37
gomiamStskeeps: no problem. I'm currently banging my head against a Debian testing kernel freeze on 2.6.2x10:37
gomiamfortunately, I still have a 2.6.18 kernel installed to keep me going.10:38
Stskeepsgomiam: figure out why starting S03udev causes open("/dev/root", O_RDONLY|O_EXCL) to fail with EBUSY on 2.6.21 (causes checkroot to die) and i'll buy you a pizza10:38
Stskeepsif i run fsck -before- udev, it runs fine10:38
pupnikis there such thing as a sensible checking/expenses minder for maemo, or should i use vi?10:39
Stskeepsoh, and this only happens when ext2/3 is unmounted uncleanly10:39
gomiamStskeeps: it's the moon, I tell you. It's all in the phase of the moon ;-)10:39
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gomiamyou should go out in the next new moon and sacrifice a black calf10:39
Stskeepsyea :P considered it10:39
aquatixor a white lion, but those are a bit harder to do10:39
gomiamit won't help a bit, but a least you get to have some fun (until the police gets ahold of you)10:40
aquatixand it makes for great steak10:40
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WolfpawsHi. I have a question... How do I make a graphical application for Maemo? Is there a simple HOWTO for it?10:42
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qwerty12pupnik: Don't think so :(. There is a car expenses application but I don't that will help you. Some people just use Garnet VM but that does have an expiry date...10:44
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pupnikqwerty12: i don't even know what features people need.  heh.  is there a mega simple spreadsheet for maemo with just like... sum(A1:A20) and simple maths? :D10:46
Khertanpupnik: gnumeric10:46
pupnikok.. big guns10:46
KhertanHi !10:46
aquatixpupnik: ah, and er, gnumeric!10:46
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pupnikyou all are wrong10:46
aquatixworks surprisingly well on maemo btw10:47
GAN800Why does it seem like the plenware guys spend all day coding weird patches for Maemo?10:48
aquatix ?10:49
GAN800All the Chinese guys attaching patches in bugzilla.10:49
pupnikok  - tony maro who has a N800 also wrote something10:50
pupnikurgh, written in pascal10:51
GAN800Gene Cash had something, but I dunno if it was ever ported to OS2008.10:53
GAN800He mostly liked to spend his time bitching about it after it came out.10:53
timelesshello world10:54
qwerty12I think that other guy rbrewer ported some of his apps to OS200810:54
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pupnikthanks for the tips... i'm a little surprised more people aren't clamoring for pda-ish apps10:55
GAN800There's plenty of clamoring10:55
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GAN800Just not a lot of coding.10:55
GAN800Other than GPE10:56
GAN800Which is basically just gcobb.10:56
GAN800Hello, timeless.10:56
WolfpawsOdd... What gives? [sbox-DIABLO_ARMEL: ~] > gainroot10:57
Wolfpaws/usr/sbin/chroot: cannot change root directory to /mnt/initfs: Operation not permitted10:57
Stskeepsodd question, when you got your n800 + headset.. did you get the black layer to wrap around the actual headphones?11:02
Stskeepssaw them on my gf's other nokia headset11:02
Stskeepssince the headphone parts are a bit nasty towards the ear else11:03
gomiamStskeeps: I don't think so. Mine didn't, IIRC11:03
gomiam(but my memory ages faster than the refresh update, so...)11:04
qwerty12Stskeeps: Hmm, I have a bit of black rubber around the headset that came with my N80011:04
Stskeepsodd, didn't get that11:04
Stskeepsthen again, i bought it from the US and usian ears are prolly more resistant to foreign objects ;>11:05
qwerty12~lart faad211:05
* infobot pushes the wall down onto faad2 whilst whistling innocently11:05
gomiamStskeeps: specially if they are Japanese (just 1.2% of foreigners living in Japan? Oh dear) ;-)11:05
qwerty12Stskeeps: Your wifi is 2 frequencies down :P11:06
* gomiam goes buy new par of eyeballs.11:06
Stskeepsqwerty12: prolly, but works fine here :P11:06
Stskeepsokay, so my battery applet has disappeared on my chinook11:07
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qwerty12It's telling you to upgrade to diablo11:07
Stskeepsit'll be a cold day in hell when i upgrade to diablo11:07
Stskeepsit'll prolly end up with me default booting to deblet instead11:08
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pupnik"Warning: dates on calendar are closer than they appear."  - nice itt .sig11:23
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Khertanpupnik: help me to finish my mPIM apps :)11:26
pupnikno time, need to earn money11:26
bef0rdqwerty12, :P11:27
gomiambef0rd: ¿de dónde eres? ;-)11:27
qwerty12bef0rd: wow, that's brilliant :). Just out of question, don't you have load applet or mh shot tool or something? :P11:28
bef0rdhaha I actually have it  .. dunno why took a picture instead11:28
bef0rdgomiam, Colombia11:29
gomiambef0rd: ah, cierto, que ya no recordaba lo del "buuu" XD11:29
qwerty12bef0rd: Heh, I just vnc in and take a screenshot or ssh in and use fbgrab and use sshfs to retrieve the picture :/11:29
bef0rdgomiam, sep, pero no soy la 'chica' de la foto :P soy Fernando.11:30
gomiambef0rd: ¿antes o después del cambio de sexo? ;-)11:30
qwerty12I don't know what he said but sounds good11:31
gomiamqwerty12: just joking about his not being the girl on the lower right side of the picture11:31
qwerty12heh :)11:31
bef0rdhaha gomiam :P11:31
gomiam(and asking whether that was before or after the sex change operation)11:31
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Khertanpupnik: currently mCalendar, and mContacts11:35
melmothKhertan:do you plan to push pygtkeditor in diablo extras repo ? i did not find it11:36
melmothand i did not find the gtksourceview lib when i try to installed it manually fetching binary from here and there11:36
Khertanmelmoth: yep ... it s planned ... but not a priority ...11:37
pupnikcongrats Khertan11:37
Khertanas i can't make a gtksourceview source package on my not11:37
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melmothohh, that the one i missed yesterday11:39
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thuxi changed to links2 -g cause diablo's browser keeps falling, can i somehow set links2 -g in full screen?11:54
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dexemI'm trying to use osso_statusbar_send_event to send some dbus signals, but I don't know how to know if it's working (it doesn't seem)... how can I know it? or... do you know any link I could see?12:00
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floriangood morning12:14
murrayc_florian: Hi.12:15
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robstai'm wondering how to get the gps on my n810 going12:24
robstait doesn't work in the map app, neither with maemo mapper12:24
yacoobrobsta, if you're talking internal gps, it doesn't do well in areas with poor reception12:25
robstainternal, yes12:25
robstahmm, ok, so maybe i'm just unlucky where i'm living?12:26
yacoobyou should get a separate gps icon in the status bar - see how many satelites you see, and what is the signal level12:26
robstathe satellite icon was flashing while satellites were scanned for, now it's gone12:27
melmothfirst time i used the gps, it got a hook on the satellite the moment i arrived at destination.12:27
florianrobsta: The first fix (and every cold start) takes ages. Setting the clock correctly can help a lot.12:28
robsta /dev/pgps would it be for internal, right?12:29
robstaflorian: think i've never gotten the fix, in months12:29
robstaor do i need to use GPSD Host?12:30
melmothrobsta: with maemomapper, you just leave blank the gps info field to use the internal one (if i remeber correclty)12:30
yacoobmelmoth, if you leve it blank, it'll use the one you configure in system settings12:31
melmothand choose "bluetooth"12:31
robstamelmoth: i don't have a BT GPS device around12:31
melmothrobsta: me neither, as yacoob says, the system setting gps is set to internal.12:32
melmothand the maemomapper one is set to "bluetooth", blank entry12:32
robsta"Establishing GPS fix", oh awesome, never got that far12:33
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melmothrobsta: be sure you are out, and not moving, and no finger near the leftern top part of the tablet.12:36
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lcukhmmm, has anyone noticed any changes with the cpufreq throttling, on powersave now i have a noticable speed step between active and inactive.  its almost as if powersave is acting like ondemand12:47
JamieBennettlcuk: Can't say I've noticed but ... its possible I suppose12:48
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lcukhi JamieBennett i flashed to diablo this weekend, and thought i was in a different cpumode cos of the way it was acting12:49
JamieBennettI've been running diablo for a while now so maybe the effect has worn off on me?12:49
qwerty12lcuk: changes were made in the kernel and cpufreq is handled by kernel. maybe read kernel-source-diablo changelog?12:50
lcukwell powersave is what i always switched to when i knew i wasnt using the device cos i knew it stayed slow12:50
lcukyer im gonna have to, it was just noticing a difference12:50
* qwerty12 looks into why my libid3tag is effed up12:51
lcukoptimizations :P12:52
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qwerty12I don't think it is :P, it just seems to be missing a function according to the mpd configure script. If I can't have tag support in mpd, no point in compiling it.12:52
lcukheh, does this mean the compilation youve been tryingall weekend is for nothing?12:53
qwerty12Shouldn't be :). I'll just grab libid3tag from Austin Che's repo. Won't be optimised but it's just a tag reader :P :)12:54
* qwerty12 has been annoyed I've been compiling with -g. I'm not going back however.12:55
lcukbut thats the sort of operation you NEED to be fast, it has to go through each file and identify the tag location - its why all the media scanners are slow12:55
* Jaffa preps his council candidacy mail.12:55
qwerty12lcuk: hmm, good point. But mpd currently with that lib scans my files fast.12:56
qwerty12Heh, free is great. He published that perl script he made that excellent changelog with.12:57
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infoboti heard extras is
JamieBennettgo Jaffa :D13:01
JaffaJamieBennett: ta :)13:01
lcukok i grabbed the changelog and theres nothing new and specific, maybe its upstream13:02
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lcukor downstream or whatever it is13:02
qwerty12Cool, the file manager dialogs will be different in fremantle, hopefully nicer :)13:02
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qwerty12lcuk: not sure on that, it's still 2.6.2113:03
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lcukill have a proper rummage through later, for now im not that bothered, just surprised me - there  IS still a difference between powersave and ondemand, but they both speed up when you give them a workout13:04
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lcukondemand speeds up more often though13:04
lcuk:) jaffa13:05
qwerty12lcuk: fixed the libid3tag with optimisations :)13:05
lcukgood :)13:06
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qwerty12Thanks, it just needed a recompile. Probably wanted libmad which I compiled after libid3tag :)13:06
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lcukdoes it seem odd to anyone as to why the wimax driver was removed from kernel?13:11
qwerty12Where does it say it was removed?13:11
lcukahhh tis ok - kernel source changelog, last entry - but theres a different new driver WiWLAN13:11
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robstait seems to work now, thanks guys!13:23
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* qwerty12 likes the whining tag on the "can the '08 GUI be ANY crappier?" thread lol13:34
* qwerty12 is happy. Optimised mpd is working brilliantly, just high cpu for 2 seconds at the start of each song :/13:35
* JamieBennett likes Jaffa's email to the community list13:36
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* qwerty12 does dirty hacks to my dpkg status file13:38
JaffaJamieBennett: It's amazing what you can rattle off whilst waiting for Eclipse to work13:38
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JamieBennettJaffa: :D13:39
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JaffaSomeone (and I'll do it later if no-one else has), needs to advertise candidature on ITT13:44
JamieBennettJaffa: As in a thread or Reggie doing a front page news item?13:45
JaffaI was thinking former. Maybe Reggie would then do his "promote thread to news article" thingy that he does sometimes.13:45
JaffaI suspect there may be good candidates who are on ITT, but don't follow maemo-community13:46
JaffaThere's been *sufficient* advertising, but would be good to have more.13:46
JamieBennettI can go do a thread now, I'm not busy at the moment.13:46
* qwerty12 didn't even realise there is maemo-community. Then again, I'm not a community person.13:47
JaffaJamieBennett: ta13:48
Jaffa /nick qwerty12 hermit1213:49
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hermit12It worked :P :)13:49
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* qwerty12 goes back to normal, that's enough frivolity from me today :P 13:53
JamieBennettJaffa: Dave put it so eloquently in his email to the list that its hard to reword it. I'll add a comment to the start and reproduce it in the thread13:55
JaffaJamieBennett: sounds good13:56
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lcukjaffa, your post is true, i knowthey are gonna offer a standard but as you say if people dont like it, they will use their own14:18
lcukits happened since the dawn of time, unless they get it bang on right we will continue this cycle14:19
Jaffaiterative development is better - it's  just frustrating when the iterations are so long14:19
JaffaJamieBennett: ta14:19
JamieBennettJaffa: np14:19
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yacoobgood way of starting up with maemo developement would be getting a linux box... I don't have one at the moment :D14:34
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lcukyacoob ;) i develop in windows - for starters depending on the language you can just write python, for more indepth use vmware with the maemovmware image14:41
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qwerty12_N800Any libao experts here?14:45
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yacooblcuk, it's just I've got rid of my linux desktop at home, and I sure wouldn't want to ressurect it. I'll see whether I can have scratchbox on osx...14:45
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melmothhola lcuk : remember the issue i had with slow cairo rendering in gtk ? Your tip (drawing the picture in the gtk thread based on info prepared on another thread) works like a charm.14:47
melmoththanks ;-)14:47
lcukmelmoth, :) glad you got it sorted, now get the code/movie/anything out there14:49
melmoththere are still lots of work to do, but everything is on garage in the sayhoo project. I realised this morning computing the image can be made faster too14:50
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melmothwhen looking for "nearby" node, i span the all node database with request asking for lat*lat and lon*lon, i should do that only for the part of hte map i m interested in.14:51
melmothi expect things to be smotther once i change that too14:51
melmothThen, i wonder how long a 'regular' route finding will take, and may be it will be usable.14:52
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lcukmelmoth, i forgot it was up, ill have a look at it later (if i remember)14:54
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* lcuk slides back off to work14:55
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baabahey, i'm sort of confused about when the nfs mounts are supposed to happen exactly when using sbrsh?14:58
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baabacurrently i've got scratchbox/the device in a state where if i run just sbrsh it says it can't find /bin/sh, but if i manually add the mounts on the device then it (sort of) works14:59
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andrewfblackKhertan you here15:05
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Khertanandrewfblack: yep15:18
Khertanandrewfblack: i ve received your files15:18
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baabai also looked at /tmp/sbrshd___.log and it didn't say anything about mount failures - it just seems it doesn't even try to mount what i've specified in .sbrsh :<15:22
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RST38hmoo all15:36
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JamieBennettRST38h: moo15:37
qwerty12_N800hi RST38h15:38
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Kegetyshmm, how are you supposed to read sound from the N810 microphone using python? it seems the sound libraries have been removed16:20
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XTLgstreamer bindings?16:36
XTLShould be there. Don't know what you can pull out of them, though.16:37
XTL(Or what you want)16:37
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KegetysI'd just want to read raw sound data from the microphone with as low latency as possible16:38
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KnowledgeGAN800: what was the next logical chip for the new tablet?16:56
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JamieBennettKnowledge: OMAP343016:58
KnowledgeThanks Jamie...I'm dyin here, I wanted to get an n810, but decided I'll wait...for the next one16:59
qwerty12_N800Good decision :)16:59
jottnah, buy both that's the best decision :D17:00
JamieBennettI'd wait but the n810 is a great device nonetheless17:00
qwerty12_N800The way Nokia implemented the hardware on the N8x0 leaves a lot to be desired >.<17:00
* qwerty12_N800 will start saving for an N900 :) 17:00
* XTL keeps an eye out for cheap used ones17:00
KnowledgeI agree, until I realized that the D-pad is hidden...17:01
Knowledgethat annoyed me...17:01
jottyay! cheap used n900s :)17:01
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jotthi pupnik!17:02
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qwerty12_N800"  * When setting non-en language on RX-48, make secondary input language en_US, not en_GB"17:05
* qwerty12_N800 does not like17:05
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* XTL neither17:08
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RST38hAh, those brits...17:10
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* qwerty12_N800 looks into testserver. i have a feeling phoenix starts it up when the tablet is connected to a FS-6617:11
* XTL wishes there was en_SANE locale17:12
RST38hit's C17:12
RST38h"C" locale is relatively sane17:12
XTLSo it has been.17:12
aquatixnon-utf8 though17:13
RST38hscrew utf8...17:14
XTLNot by default17:14
pupnikhello jott17:15
aquatixRST38h: don't screw it by default?17:16
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pedroerphey guys! how do i get the source of xserver-xomap package?17:19
pupnikwow, i can read norwegian (!)17:20
RST38hdoes not take much to figure out17:20
RST38hin this sample at least17:20
XTLNorwegian is pretty readable17:20
XTLMore so if you know swedish17:20
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pupnikvorsammenarbeid = zusammenarbeit = working together17:21
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PauloZanoniis it possible to run xorg on n810?17:25
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KnowledgeJamieBennett: did you mean the OMAP3530?17:25
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andrewfblackKhertan what did you think is it any good?  Like I said never done one before17:26
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JamieBennettKnowledge: No, the 3430 -
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KnowledgeYeah, sorry I found it after typing17:28
KnowledgeI wonder why not any of the higher ones?17:28
pupnik3530 is just a variant of 343017:29
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JamieBennettpupnik: Indeed17:29
pupnikstrange choice of number imo17:29
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KnowledgeCan't wait...17:33
KnowledgeI kept wanting an Itouch...but figured I'd wait...17:34
Knowledgemy 770 is getting old17:34
JamieBennettYes, the announcements at OSiM and the summit should confirm/disprove if this is indeed going to be in the new tablets.17:35
KnowledgeAlright, work calls....I'm out.17:35
Knowledgegot it17:36
JamieBennettThe event before the summit, Open source in mobile conference17:36
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Knowledgealright guys, take care.17:36
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* qwerty12_N800 wants to know contents of
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aquatixqwerty12_N800: user/pass please? ;)17:39
qwerty12_N800aquatix: don't have it :(. some internal link i'd guess. i found it after googling17:40
aquatixqwerty12_N800: doesn't google cache have something interesting?17:40
RST38hno google cache?17:40
pupnikit would be hard to imagine nokia going with something else...17:40
qwerty12_N800no :(17:40
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XTLIt's unlikely google would get in either :)17:40
* aquatix is not sure about that17:41
* qwerty12_N800 knows quite a few internal links, just no user/pass17:41
Khertanand without the s ...17:41
Khertanof https ... i get a timeout error :(17:41
XTLI think p.m.o is off limits to public17:42
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JamieBennettI can get p.m.o17:44
aquatixi can haz p.m.o?17:44
* qwerty12_N800 haz pms17:44
qwerty12_N800sorry, i had to.17:44
* jumpula just went to scary visual place17:44
Khertan? :)17:44
aquatixqwerty12_N800: you'er a fake lady you!17:44
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qwerty12_N800oh noez, the secret iz out!17:45
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pupnikqwerty12_N800: has perfect maemo superiority17:49
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qwerty12_N800 - if you are observant, you will know what i'm hinting at17:49
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Khertanqwerty12_N800: don't see17:52
qwerty12_N800pupnik: hardly :p. i just have the nitro package and was signed up to dsm-devel :p17:52
qwerty12_N800Khertan: search maemo17:52
Khertani ve see :)17:53
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XTLDo those compare somehow?18:03 gets its source tgz's from there18:03
jottXTL: is a search frontend for packages while is a file archive for packages...18:08
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jottbut you could always use mirrors instead of hammering the main site :)18:10
Mekhmm... is it normal to not receive a reply for > 4 days to get my blog on planet maemo? :)18:12
jottMek: x-fade is still on vacation :)18:12
Mekah, he handles that too? :)18:12
jotti bet :)18:12
ariyajott: hola18:12
jotthello ariya.18:13
ariyajott: I also asked jens to join this channel, but maybe he's busy18:15
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jottariya: ah i see. yes, would be great.18:15
ariyajott: at least he's on the mailing list18:15
jottariya: yes. the closer the modifications stays under tt supervision the better.18:17
jottariya: btw, do you have concrete plans for the paint engine yet?18:17
ariyajott: yeah, but probably I will do it after two weeks (I have my defense exam next week)18:18
ariyajott: from a glance, it looks promising18:18
jottariya: i fear xrender stays a bottleneck, maybe there is a way around it (improve the no_xrender path eg.).18:19
ariyajott: I am not really an X11 person, but usually I stay away from xrender as far as possible :-)18:20
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jottariya: hehe, yeah i tried to just disable it but the results look rather bizarre (no anti-aliasing, no alpha-blending, etc.)18:21
ariyajott: my plan is to use the raster engine, and just blit the end result18:22
jotti guess reusing the qws/fb stuff would be nice.18:22
ariyajott: we're optimizing our raster engine like crazy for 4.5 :-)18:22
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jottsweet. and about time ;)18:22
ariyajott: and if finally a decent GL driver is available, we can use that as well18:23
ariyajott: 4.5 will be a wonderful release w.r.t to graphics18:23
jottnice. haven't looked at it yet.18:23
ariyarelax, not yet pushed to the snapshot18:24
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jottariya: what kind of target would that be when using the raster engine with x11? a completely new one or just the no_xrender path?18:29
ariyajott: just as if you paint to a QImage, then call drawImage to blit it to the screen18:29
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jottariya: yeah sure, just wonder where it would end up as it's neither really x11 nor framebuffer :)18:32
ariyajott: does not really matter, either we blit using XPutImage/whatever or write to the fb18:32
ariyajott: the bottleneck is likely during the painting (unless our graphics bandwidth is really stupid)18:33
manyosoi have a version that does this i'll post it soon18:33
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manyosojott: the technique ariya talks about is how i was able to get acceptable framerates18:33
manyosoariya: is there a snapshot of Qt 4.5 with these crazy raster engine improvements? ie, has it made it into the snapshots yet?18:34
ariyamanyoso: yeah, you should post it soon :-)18:34
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ariyamanyoso: you should "fix" your assertion of Qt being slow there :-P18:34
manyosoif so I'd really like it if we could get some debs of snapshot made for maemo18:35
manyosoariya: heh, hope it didn't ruffle to many feathers18:35
manyosothe assertion is after all correct18:35
ariyamanyoso: I have no problem with the assertion18:35
jottmanyoso: ruffeling feathers is good - you see something is done :)18:35
manyosoand i quite clearly stated in the blog post the likely problem was Xrender, not Qt18:35
ariyamanyoso: only being afraid (paranoid) that someone (digg/slashdot/etc) gets it "wrong"18:36
manyosoit is a sad state of affairs with Xrender18:36
ariyamanyoso: well, Qt is also the fault here, as it does not handle 16-to-16 gracefully18:36
manyosoariya: right18:36
manyosoi still want my option to load 16 bit qimage's using QImageDecoder and friends18:36
ariyamanyoso: improved raster engine will come soon in snapshot, just be patient18:37
manyosowe have 16 bit qimage's with alphachannel now after all18:37
manyosoariya: can you give me a shout when it lands?18:37
ariyamanyoso: likely someone will post a notice anyway on Trolltech Labs18:37
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manyosojott: ariya: see
jottmanyoso: thanks.19:01
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jottmanyoso: how much fps you get with qgears?19:03
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ariyamanyoso: cool19:03
manyosoaverage of 35% increase i think19:03
manyosoover my previous numbers for -image case19:04
manyosostill not great, but better19:04
ariyamanyoso: hmm actually I think I didn't explain it clear enough the problem19:04
ariyamanyoso: the 32-to-16 a definitely a bottleneck19:04
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ariyamanyoso: but even if you painter->drawPixmap(16-bit pixmap), Qt still converts it to 32-bit --> slow19:04
manyosobecause Qt's backingstore is 3219:05
ariyamanyoso: not really true19:05
ariyamanyoso: you can skip it using WA_PaintOnScreen, and the problem persists19:05
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manyosoariya: correct me if i'm wrong, but what i'm doing involves no 32 bit operations19:06
manyosoboth the src and dst paintdevice's are 16 bit19:06
manyosoand then i take care of blitting to screen which means no 32 bit operation there19:06
ariyamanyoso: in your example, yes that's true and good. inside Qt, no19:07
ariyamanyoso: btw, Qt's backingstore always match that of X. so in Maemo it will be a 16-bit pixmap19:07
manyosoand the reason is the dst paintdevice for QWidget's is 32 bit by default, right?19:08
ariyamanyoso: no, it is always the same as X visual19:08
manyosooh, well, then in that case it is Xrender causing the slowdown then because there is no 32 bit operation19:08
ariyamanyoso: not true, I tried disabling Xrender and the problem persists19:09
ariyamanyoso: QT_NO_XRENDER is the magic env var19:09
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manyosook, so if it is not Xrender and there is no 32 bit operation, then what is going on?19:11
ariyamanyoso: Qt does not blit 16-image/pixmap to 16-bit X, instead converting it to 32-bit first19:11
ariyamanyoso: it's in  QX11PixmapData::fromImage, if you want to check19:12
manyosowell, i had no idea it was being that weird19:12
manyosoany idea why on earth it would do that?19:12
ariyamanyoso: the reason is 16-bit has many different formats, 555, 565, 1555, and God knows what19:12
ariyamanyoso: X is free to define the bit masks as it likes, and then your example will fail19:12
ariyamanyoso: so what I will do is to tackle the case of 16-bit X in Maemo only, and forget the rest (meanwhile)19:13
manyosoQT_OS_HILDON or whatever19:14
ariyamanyoso: Q_WS_HILDON19:14
manyosoright, sounds lke a plan19:14
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manyosoX on maemo is 565 RGB19:14
ariyamanyoso: if you modify a bit your blog entry to reflect the real problem (not 32-to-16), I would be grateful19:14
ariyamanyoso: hmm, I though it's 55519:15
ariyamanyoso: I guess you're right, it's 56519:15
* ariya loves manyoso's example!19:16
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ariyamanyoso: btw, you don't need to keep m_rasterDevice as a pointer, just normal object19:17
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manyoso"Qt decides to convert all 16 bit pixmaps to 32 bit before blitting even if the source QPaintDevice and the destination QPaintDevice are both 16 bit."19:18
manyosobetter summary?19:18
ariyaright, thanks19:18
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manyosoariya: isn't it better to just allocate m_rasterDevice once on the heap?19:19
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ariyamanyoso: it will allocate the pixel data from the heap anyway19:20
ariyamanyoso: btw, you need XDestroyImage somewhere19:20
manyosooh hmm19:20
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ariyamanyoso: or I wonder if you can cache the XImage, and update the pixel data and re-XPutImage19:21
manyosohow to do that?19:21
ariyamanyoso: I dunno, there must be a way of doing that19:21
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jottcouldn't you use xshm and make qimage use that memory?19:21
ariyajott: we'll probably get that in 4.5 as well :-)19:22
manyosothat would be nice19:22
Mekany eta for 4.5? :P19:22
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ariyamanyoso: so you create a XImage in the constructor, then just refill the pixel data by accessing its 'data' member19:23
ariyaMek: can't comment on that19:23
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Khertan_n810Hi again19:32
Khertan_n810how it s possible that gdata never emit a timeout exception19:33
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Khertan_n810closing the connection while retrieving event is made the call to the function endless19:34
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usicowI just installed the sandbox and Im reading the Diablo Reference Manual as recommended which goes through how to install it.. all went fine.. but how to I start it?19:35
ariya  jott: any compiler define now to detect if we're running Qt Maemo? perhaps in the shipped Qt include files?19:36
GeneralAntillesusicow, Scratchbox.19:37
jottariya: currently Q_WS_HILDON is used everywhere.19:37
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ariyajott: where is defined? which header file?19:41
jottariya: ugh. seems nowhere :(.19:42
jottthis has to be fixed.19:42
jottshould go to qglobal.h, right?19:42
usicowGeneralAntilles: err yeah, thats what I meant :) Obviously Im a noob.. so how do I start it?19:42
ariyajott: yes, for Maemo's 4.4.1 possibly?19:42
Mekjott: and at least in one place there is a #if Q_WS_HILDON instead of a #ifdef Q_WS_HILDON... (qmainwindow.h)19:42
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ariyaMek: strange, how is it supposed to work? defined in the .pro file?19:44
Mekno, that one is not supposed to work at all I think...19:44
jottthat's clearly a bug.19:44
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fijalI have a problem setting up network inside my scratchbox20:07
fijalie how do I do it?20:07
fijalwhen I was on ADSL everything worked fine, but now it seems that I cannot access network from inside20:08
fijalwhat can possibly go wrong?20:08
Mekyour /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf could be wrong?20:08
fijalthat's possible20:08
fijalindeed, worked out20:09
fijalthank you20:09
Mekhad the same problem myself some time ago :)20:10
fijalit's fairly confusing to find out what's going on in and out20:10
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Stskeepswould directories in /usr/share/icons/hicolor like 64x64 or 32x32 that doesnt always exist before, cause trouble with GTK's icon lookup stuff?20:19
Stskeepsbecause i noticed i seem to be missing some icon parts in my maemo messages after i installed some icons into dirs like that20:20
GeneralAntillesThe tablet isn't in love with doing a USB hard drive copy and sftp at the same time.20:22
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lcukjott, ariya :( i see performance limitations are starting to be noticable20:28
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GeneralAntilles<3 OTG20:29
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CptLaptopaccording to wikipedia the n800 runs the same arm11 cpu as my cell doe20:30
GeneralAntillesTypically used in the high-end Nokia N-series devices.20:31
CptLaptopmy cell runs at 369mhz, the n800 on 400... thats not a big difference20:31
qwerty12_N800nokia symbian phones (s60 v3 ones at least) share the same processor20:31
CptLaptop"high end"... N series run at 320 mhz20:31
CptLaptopmost of them anyways20:31
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CptLaptopnew E series run 369, along with the 6120, 6220 etc20:31
GeneralAntillesOMAP3430 is 600MHz20:32
ariyalcuk: working on the fix :-)20:32
GeneralAntillesand much more powerful and efficient than ARM1120:32
johnxGeneralAntilles, and it should have some headroom too :)20:32
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GeneralAntillesI was hearing ~900MHz from Pandora20:33
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johnxGeneralAntilles, yeah, me too. crazy, eh?20:33
lcukariya :) hope you manage it, though i dont see how you will manage such a large gain.  it will be interesting to see20:33
GeneralAntillesScares me shitless, johnx.20:33
lcukariya, since you are inside, perhaps you can help push the need for pvr :)   its the one path available for real speedups (at the slight lowering of resolution)20:34
GeneralAntillesTI will be the lord of the rings once they've distributed the OMAP3 to everybody. . . .20:34
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johnxa fast CPU with a big battery attached to the back is what I really want from the world, so I'm pretty thrilled20:34
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lcukpandora still doesnt have 3d drivers though and that concerns me20:35
johnxlcuk, hmm? if they ship without 3D drivers the devs will be forced to walk the plank...20:35
GeneralAntilleslcuk, it's being worked out20:35
GeneralAntillesBeagle is close20:35
johnxwhat makes you think they don't have 3D drivers?20:35
GeneralAntillesThe issue is more of the sourciness of the drivers than their existence at this point.20:35
lcukall this "its close" "its coming" "we have private test drivers" makes me grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr20:36
lcuksourciness be damned, i want binary20:36
GeneralAntillesThere are drivers available afaik.20:36
lcuksearch their blog for 3d
lcukQuake2 running in software mode (not using the 3D hardware yet, but still pushing 60fps).20:37
johnxlcuk, drivers won't do you any good without hardware20:37
lcukthey have the omap320:37
lcukand we have the omap220:37
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lcukits the same story20:37
GeneralAntillesBefore the end of the year20:37
johnxand I think the issue is that the drivers support OpenGL ES so some minor porting is required20:37
GeneralAntillesfwiw, Jason Kridner is a TI engineer.20:38
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Khertan_n810i want a QuadCore Intel CPU in my nit with a zpm to power it !20:38
lcukGeneralAntilles, according to the posting hes got a gmail account20:39
lcuknot official20:39
GeneralAntilleslcuk, what's your point?20:39
GeneralAntillesI'm just saying, he's a TI employee.20:39
johnxKhertan_n810, I'd settle for a Cortex A8 + 3D powered by a radio-isotope generator :)20:39
lcukthats im being very down about ever seeing 3d on a little device20:39
GeneralAntillesI want an N900 powered by lcuk on a hamster wheel. :P20:39
lcukyou can get that already20:39
Khertan_n810johnx: a zpm is better20:39
johnxKhertan_n810, I'm just being realistic :P20:40
lcukjohnx, porting opengl es to what?20:40
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Khertan_n810johnx: hum ... really ? 3d on 4" screen ? :)20:40
johnxporting quake2 from open GL 1.x to opengl es20:40
johnxKhertan_n810, talk to the pandora guys, not me :D20:41
Khertan_n810yeah really the most needed thing ...20:41
Khertan_n810a opengl driver just for a quake port20:41
Khertan_n810haha :)20:41
johnxKhertan_n810, well the pandora is meant to be a gaming yeah, 3D acceleration has a place20:41
GeneralAntillesTime to hit the road20:41
GeneralAntillescatch everybody later tonight.20:41
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* qwerty12_N800 will get a pandora or a n900 depending on which one gets quake 3 first :p20:42
Khertan_n810johnx: when we see the pandorabox available in store we could discuss about it ...20:42
* lcuk will settle for a device running tuxracer in hardware20:42
lcukno porting required20:42
Khertan_n810but i don t think it s for a near futur20:42
johnxKhertan_n810, fair enough20:43
Khertan_n810hum ? how they resolv the battery problem ?20:44
johnxKhertan_n810, hmm? what battery problem?20:44
qwerty12_N800It runs on 20 9v batteries strapped 2 ur back20:45
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johnxit has a couple big li-ions I think20:45
lcukOMG lions!  quick, get in the caqr20:46
johnxOMG, da lionses alreedy gat in da caqr !!!20:47
* qwerty12_N800 drives a caqr20:47
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Khertan_n810the same as the sony firestarter20:47
pjvanybody here use vagalume in gnome?20:47
johnxcougar + jaguar + car = caqr?20:47
lcukalternatively i could just have made a typo :P20:48
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qwerty12_N800o rly20:49
lcukya rly20:49
qwerty12_N800no wai!!!20:49
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Khertan_n810Approximately 10 hours of runtime for video / general applications and 100 hours for music playback20:50
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Khertan_n810this was not what they have planned a year ago20:50
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qwerty12_N800man the specs of the pandora are getting me sprung. it depends on how retarded nokia are with source regarding the n900 that will sway my decision on what to buy20:51
texelMm. Yeah, I saw the pandora recently. VERY tempting.20:51
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texelMuch moreso than anything Nokia could pony up with, based upon their current strategy of browbeating the OSS folks with "it's business, therefore it's proprietery."20:52
Khertan_n810it s look like a zaurus20:52
lcuki find it hard to believe nokia arent working on similar spec machines20:52
Khertan_n810lcuk: i think there are20:52
lcukall the signs point towards it :)20:52
texelWhich is utter crap. =op20:52
texel(nokia's policy)20:52
Khertan_n810ouch it s the size of  an umpc20:53
lcuki *like* the 810 form factor, i dont need something which flips open like a laptop20:53
Khertan_n810lcuk: which signs ?20:53
qwerty12_N800i like "CPU intensive apps/games/emus can just kill kDrive when ran, set their CPU speed, have the system to themselves and just reload kDrive on exit. " - on the n800, dsmetool will reboot if you do that, and the framebuffer is so shit, it's not even worth disabling watchdog just to do that20:53
Khertan_n810i prefer the form factor of the n810 too !20:54
lcukKhertan_n810, look at the 3d stuff we got told, the ui/next gen OS spec they are aiming for (qt) etc and then look at the capabilities of the current machine20:54
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lcukkhertan, i draw and write on mine all the time, and have it perfectly flat with my wrist resting at same level as the screen20:55
lcukwith a fold out it would be difficult to achieve and i wouldnt be able to do the same20:55
Khertan_n810lcuk: qt is a regression20:55
texelMm. I recently bought a Zaurus SL-CL3200 from Japan and find that particular issue to be rather annoying.20:55
lcuknot really, its a more elegent weapon for a 3d world20:56
texelThankfully it rotates around, so it's better than one that does not.20:56
Khertan_n810lcuk: lol i m used it heavily too remember that if i ve made pygtkeditor is for me primary20:56
lcukKhertan_n810, not quite the same way i do - i DRAW on it and you cannot draw with your wrist resting on a surface and the device 1/2cm up20:57
Khertan_n810lcuk: qt 3dworld ? there is no  link20:57
Stskeepsjohnx: how was lxde btw?20:58
johnxStskeeps, works really nice20:58
johnxjust a simple bar on the bottom with a menu and openbox for window management20:59
johnxnot very configurable20:59
johnxbut I think that's ok20:59
johnxit's *really* light20:59
johnxworks great on my zaurus with 64MB RAM20:59
Stskeepsso we should make a nit-env-lxde too? ;)20:59
lcukKhertan_n810, those pics are what my 810 lives in most of the time, as you can see my hand rests on level with the screen20:59
Khertan_n810lcuk: this is to maintain your n810 with your neck using a rope ?20:59
Stskeepsi'm working on nit-env-gnome-basic atm20:59
Stskeepsi hate scrollkeeper already21:00
lcuklol heh, no - the holes are artifacts of the routing process21:00
lcukbut thats a damned good idea :D21:00
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lcuki best show this one as well ;)
Khertan_n810ah ... now i understand what is the purpose21:03
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lcukno i never use it in laptop mode :P its mainly for holding and resting on - and its perfect for lying in bed reading21:03
Khertan_n810i m trying to do the same thing with a 22" monitor and a usb keyboard and mouse21:03
Khertan_n810to use it at home21:04
lcukit rests on my chest and doesnt need holding heavily and i dont have the hassle of dropping it or touching the screen21:04
lcukKhertan_n810, how are you outputting the screen data - have you got a usb->vga?21:04
texelFunny how you guys just griped about the size of the Pandora, yet are increasing the physical dimensions of the N810. =op21:05
lcukim not afraid of the physical size21:05
lcuki need flatness21:05
* texel nods21:05
Khertan_n810nope ... it s too expensive21:05
Khertan_n810(for my wife at least)21:05
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lcuki'll buy your wife21:06
Khertan_n810i ve recycled an old p2 600Mhz computer21:06
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* texel 's brain just did a triple-backflip21:06
Khertan_n810texel: if i want a netbook i bought a netbook21:06
qwerty12_N800Khertan_n810: i binned my p3 733mhz computer :p21:06
Khertan_n810so i m trying many solution21:07
Khertan_n810x11vnc .... very very slow21:07
texelKhertan_n810: yeah, but a netbook is about as closed as you can get, whereas a Pandora... well.. you get the idea. =o)21:07
lcukmy missus has a higher spec desktop than me :( her bleeding sims 2 + super update packs every 3 bleed you dry weeks need all the horsepower it can get21:07
Khertan_n810texel: a netbook closed ?21:08
lcukkhertan, vnc was not slow when i tested it - optimize it on the desktop side21:08
texelKhertan_n810: closed as in source.21:08
texelKhertan_n810: as in specs, etc.21:08
texelKhertan_n810: netbooks == only EPOC32.21:08
lcukim pretty certain a screwdriver can cure that21:08
Khertan_n810texel: pandora hardware is open source ?21:08
texelKhertan_n810: AFAICT, yes.21:09
Khertan_n810i dont think that ti open the source of their cpuj21:09
texelThat was the idea from the start, IIRC.21:09
lcuki REALLY want an arm desktop21:09
johnxlcuk, well the beagleboard is a good start21:09
texelKhertan_n810: maybe not the schematics for the CPU, no, but the CPU is well documented and the specs are available for free for the one they're using, IIRC.21:09
johnxor find a netwinder :)21:09
lcuki do native compilation already on my 810, but its slower than i want (at least to do c++ or other languages)21:10
johnxtexel, I believe the schematics aren't open, but documentation on what pins do what is21:10
Khertan_n810texel: specs of a ti cpu available freely ? are u sure ?21:10
lcukjohnx, agreed, but its not exactly plug and play - i want a complete oob experience21:10
johnxlcuk, you plug it in to power and the other end in to DVI...21:10
lcukKhertan_n810, the omap3 apparantly has more docs available than any other21:10
texeljohnx: hm. That would be too bad. I was under the apparent misunderstanding that it was as open as possible.21:11
Khertan_n810oh ! great thing21:11
johnxlcuk, and you're already great at making wooden cases...so21:11
lcukand what OS/drives/installation do you need?21:11
johnxlcuk, there's an angstrom image for it currently21:11
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lcukfor it, or on it?21:11
johnxlcuk, debian would be easy21:11
johnxlcuk, aaah, I see what you're getting at21:11
Khertan_n810hum .... ... .. i hope n900 will get vga out21:12
lcukno, thats not easy - remember i dont actually know linux yet21:12
Khertan_n810lcuk: easy as a n81021:12
texelVGA out on any device Nokia produces is doubtful in my mind.21:12
johnxlcuk, send me one and I promise to make you a nice FS image you can just unzip onto a SD card :)21:12
texeldebootstrap to the rescue! =o)21:12
lcuk:) johnx, i would love to say sure, and i dont doubt you would.  money is an issue though21:13
qwerty12_N800johnx: good plan, zip, not tar + bz2 for the n00bs :p21:13
manyosois there any special hook or signal that maemo/linux kernel will give an app if an allocation fails on out-of-memory error?21:13
johnxqwerty12_N800, what do you think the z in bz2 is for? :P21:13
texelHm. Does the zip format contain support for POSIX filesystem permissions? O.o21:13
lcukmy dad says i need it as exemacutable21:14
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qwerty12_N800johnx: but then you would bunzip, not unzip :p21:14
* johnx rolls his eyes21:14
johnxbunch a purists...21:14
lcuk"hai, please send me self egstrkting file to get vista on my nokia n810 phone"21:14
lcukmy meail address is qwerty12@gmail :P21:15
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qwerty12_N800not quite :p21:16
str8edgedoes anyone have packages for the pimlico apps?21:17
moontigerstr8edge, they are on their website21:17
str8edgefor diablo?21:17
johnxchinook packages will work21:18
str8edgejohnx: how do I install them?21:18
lcukthe same way you install any other .deb?21:18
johnxwhat problem are you having? I haven't tried installing those packages specifically in diablo but they should be fine21:19
qwerty12_N800how iz dat!?!!!!!!21:19
moontigerthey arent as good as they actually look imo and i uninstalled them by ymmv21:19
str8edgek i'll try.21:19
texel$ sudo dpkg -i *.deb21:19
moontigerby = but21:19
* lcuk just clicks on pacage in file manager21:19
texelHeh -- sorry. I'm a sysadmin by trade. =op21:19
lcukit works with packages as well21:19
texelCLIs are in my blood. =o)21:20
str8edgei'm very familiar with Linux.. RHCT, been using debian since '97. just new to the n81021:20
lcukim a developer - coding and functions arei n my blood, but i still hate the command line21:20
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moontigerthats cos windows is sill in you lcu ;)21:21
johnxwhere was that thread for posting pics of places you've used your NIT?21:21
* lcuk also has lots of typo cells in his bloodstream21:21
mgedminrepeat after me: "the command line is a developer's best friend"21:21
mgedminhi, lcuk21:21
texelHehehe =o)21:21
lcukhi mgedmin :)21:21
johnx...cause I have a great one to add:
CptLaptopabiword is a peculiar word for an app that doesnt read .doc21:21
Stskeeps <- neat21:21
johnxCptLaptop, did you install the .doc plugin?21:22
qwerty12_N800one more x and i wouldn't be allowed to look!21:22
lcukStskeeps, :) thats nice21:22
* CptLaptop prentends not to be stupid, epically fails21:22
CptLaptopthanks johnx21:22
johnxqwerty12_N800, some places have a 6 character minimum username :/21:22
str8edgeadded the chinook repo.21:22
* CptLaptop goes to look for said plugin21:22
johnxCptLaptop, it might not exist for the tablets yet :)21:22
qwerty12_N800johnx: :)21:22
lcukjohnx :O you used your n800 on the surface of mars :O21:23
CptLaptopi had hope for 4 seconds21:23
johnxCptLaptop, just hold out for a bit then21:23
CptLaptopyou cimpiling atm? :p21:23
johnxnope. you could though :P21:23
johnxor install one of the many tools to convert .docs into something reasonable21:24
johnxor use google docs to convert it21:24
CptLaptopgoogle docs is slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow21:24
lcuk.doc is a reasonable format now isnt it21:24
johnxantiword comes to mind, IIRC21:24
lcukits openish?21:24
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qwerty12_N800antiword is packaged for maemo with a gui21:24
lcukoh sorry, im thinking of .txt ;)21:24
johnxlcuk, yeah, a 38KB binary file to contain the word "hello" unformatted sounds pretty reasonable...21:24
lcukjohnx, as long as the ratio goes down and its not 8kb per character im ok21:25
CptLaptopiKB is the text, 37 is setting for the tiny annoying paperclip21:25
str8edgeThanks.. I didn't realize I could use the chinook repo.. dates, contacts and tasks are installed!21:25
lcukstr8edge, dont tell anyone else about that though21:26
str8edgelcuk: hehe, why not? ;-021:26
lcukcos then the secret will be out21:27
lcuknow, ive ogt some hacking to be done21:27
lcukback later after i fix liqbase :S21:27
CptLaptoppeople on ITT keep saYING abiword does doc :/21:28
johnxCptLaptop, it does on the desktop. it should real soon now on the tablets21:29
johnxit's just a matter of packaging21:29
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CptLaptopyeah i know johnx, problem is the itt people seems to use doc on tablets21:30
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johnxwell either they use antiword or don't know what they're talking about21:31
johnxI just launder my .docs through gmail's convert when I need to21:31
CptLaptopantiword isnt in any repo i see21:31
Stskeepsthat's funny, matchbox-keyboard isn't completely anal in GNOME21:33
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Xamuskis there any GUI toolkit that runs both in maemo and in PocketPCs or Palm?21:38
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CptLaptopwooooo docreader works :D21:38
* CptLaptop runs in circles making a happyface¨21:38
CptLaptopthanks @ random ppl21:38
johnxgood deal CptLaptop21:39
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johnxnow tell people to stop spamming you with .docs :)21:39
CptLaptopi only need to view them not edit.. fucking classfronter, college, and docs21:39
Xamuskha, I have even more trouble with .ppt21:40
manyosowoe, someone took down qt4.garage.maemo.org21:40
CptLaptopi just ignore ppt21:40
johnxyeah, I was almost screwed the other day except that my phone had a built in .doc viewer21:40
Xamuskthough usually only .doc stuff is not useless21:40
CptLaptopyeah i have "office" on my cell too but small screen21:40
Xamuskyesterday I opened up a .doc in OO.o and everything was broken (document full of math stuff)21:41
johnxSeriously, who keeps maps in .doc format21:41
* johnx stabs out wildly21:41
moontigerCptLaptop, i have that too and even tho it sounds useful its actually useless21:41
Xamuskjohnx, the same type of people that puts walkthrough instructions with pictures in Excel21:41
* moontiger gasps21:42
usicowhow do I uninstall the sdk scratchbox?21:42
moontigerthey do that?21:42
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johnxI have picsel viewer on my cell phone and it worked really fast and pretty much flawlessly21:42
Xamuskmoontiger, yes, unfortunately21:42
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moontigerjohnx what fone you have?21:43
Xamuskit was like a manual... and the darn thing had a lot of MS-Excel-only stuff, like those comic-like boxes21:43
qwerty12_N800a samsung i guess21:43
johnxSony Ericson W51S21:43
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moontigeris it a wm device?21:43
moontigerand still picsel?21:43
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johnxit's a "dumb phone" with a ton of features21:43
qwerty12_N800bastards, se don't put picsel on their european/american phones :D21:43
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johnxqwerty12_N800, heh. I have gps with a nice maps program too. OTA vector downloads and everything21:44
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CptLaptopi got an E51 with quickoffice...does thejob when i need it to21:44
johnxI have "local search" ... if I could figure out how to use it. HA21:44
qwerty12_N800johnx: I hate you :p.21:44
moontiger<--- has a blackjack with wm621:44
johnxqwerty12_N800, this phone is pretty darn ugly though...21:45
johnxI'm really looking forward to the Android phones21:45
moontigerbut they're all java21:45
qwerty12_N800johnx: features over looks for me :).i really like se's docomo phones21:45
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johnxqwerty12_N800, this is AU KDDI21:45
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qwerty12_N800johnx: I like their docomo phones :p. symbian foma is better than that uiq crap they put out here...21:46
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johnxqwerty12_N800, I honestly don't know what OS mine has. I wouldn't be surprised if it was proprietary...21:47
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CptLaptops60 ftw21:48
CptLaptopif only the active desktop was open21:48
johnxqwerty12_N800, it reminds me of US "dumb-phones" more than symbian or winmo or palm21:48
qwerty12_N800johnx: not sure about au kddi, but their european non smartphones are enea ose, and their european smart phones are symbian uiq and docomo phones are symbian foma21:49
johnxI'd bet enea ose then21:50
johnxit's really pretty basic and all the apps seem to be java21:50
qwerty12_N800probably is21:51
johnxso you don't have to be too jealous :P21:51
qwerty12_N800my enea ose w810 is patched to run elves :>21:51
johnxhere's a pic of it if you're interested:
johnxboxy seemed to be the style last year21:52
qwerty12_N800ooh, nice21:53
Xamusktalking about winmo and stuff, is there any GUI toolkit that runs both in maemo and in PocketPC or Palm?21:53
johnxXamusk, I'd be really surprised if there was21:54
qwerty12_N800johnx: i bet you bought the pink one :p21:54
Xamuskmaybe Tkinter?21:54
jottXamusk: Qt runs on maemo and pocketpc not on palm though.21:54
johnxqwerty12_N800, nah, it was out of stock. :( had to go with black :P21:54
CptLaptop2.7" o_021:54
qwerty12_N800lol johnx21:54
Xamuskjott, thanks, I don't really need both PocketPC and Palm, just one or the other21:54
Xamuskmore like Maemo and (PocketPC or Palm)21:55
Xamuskunfortunately, I never saw anything about existing PyQT for neither maemo nor pocket21:55
jottXamusk: i doubt pocketpc will see a pyqt. under maemo it should run with a little effort.21:56
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Xamusktoo bad21:56
XamuskI suck at C/C++21:56
tank-mantheres a palmos vm21:58
Xamuskunfortunately, PalmOS GUIs are the ones which suck more than the others22:04
Xamuskincluding that memory resources limitation thing22:04
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moontigerdoes anyone have any experience with a nokia n7822:05
konttoriXamusk: I've had pyqt on maemo22:06
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konttoriyou should as the qt guys to build it along with the qt packages22:06
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konttoriRuns really quite well.22:06
Xamuskkonttori, how did you do it?22:07
jottkonttori: problem is, that there is no pyqt for wince/pocketpc22:07
konttoriso, who cares about wince ;)22:07
jottXamusk seems to care :)22:07
konttoriXamusk: I received the packages from someone who had made already them22:07
konttorican't remember who22:07
jottshouldn't be too hard.22:08
jottyou probably just have to get sip running.22:08
konttoriBut, anyway, riverbanks computing has all the tools to do it easily22:08
Xamuskthe problem is that I have a maemo, but my teacher wants my app to run on either and iPaq or in a LifeDrive22:08
Xamuskand I'm more used to PyGTK22:09
konttoriwell, pyqt is really easy to work with22:09
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jottXamusk: install linux on the ipaq :P22:10
Xamuskjott, I probably could, though that would probably cause me more trouble than I already have22:10
jotthehe maybe ;)22:11
konttorimake the app with java?22:11
Xamusksince, last time I checked, Linux on PDAs not designed for it sucked a lot, if it didn't brick the device22:11
Xamuskhuh, if it's hard to learn a new GUI toolkit, imagine a new language22:11
Xamuskhehehehe, maybe I could give Jython a try :)22:12
jotthm swt seems to run on pocketpc22:12
jott(as for the java route :)22:12
jotthello flo_lap22:14
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Xamuskgotta go, thanks22:17
XamuskI saw some reports that wxPython "may" work on both, though I have to investigate22:21
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lbtkolab -- aaargh!23:52
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lbtI want a groupware server for the home23:58
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