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| crashanddie | rm -rf http://penny-arcade.com | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| RST38h | rm -rf / | 00:02 |
| aquatix | 403: permission to weirdo denied | 00:02 |
| aquatix | crashanddie: they are occassional fun :) | 00:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Why would you want to rm Penny Arcade? | 00:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | You don't have a sense of humor, do you? | 00:11 |
| elekt | haha | 00:11 |
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| manyoso | lpotter: so you will do the qgears2 case on N810 while running Qtopia? | 00:13 |
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| ||cw | GeneralAntilles: neither does penny arcade... they used to be funny though | 00:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | They're still funny | 00:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Dunno when you think they became unfunny. | 00:16 |
| elekt | they're not that funny anymore tho | 00:17 |
| yacoob | they're pretty hermetic sometimes | 00:17 |
| ||cw | "there's no dog fscking in golf"? come on... | 00:17 |
| elekt | they get in these niches | 00:17 |
| elekt | xkcd still rocks | 00:17 |
| yacoob | apart from emo-tainted strips, when it doesn't :D | 00:18 |
| elekt | true | 00:18 |
| yacoob | but yes, it's pretty decent | 00:18 |
| yacoob | biggest fall was megatokyo | 00:18 |
| yacoob | it used to be excellent, it's pure shit now | 00:19 |
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| elekt | it took me a while to discover the mouseover on xkcd | 00:20 |
| elekt | so then i went back a few years and enjoyed the jokes again | 00:21 |
| elekt | heh | 00:21 |
| lcuk | hmm, maybe my media scanner is being a little optimistic... | 00:23 |
| lcuk | stat failed: '//dev/fd/4/dev/fd/4/dev/fd/4/dev/fd/4/dev/fd/4/dev/fd/4/dev/fd/4/dev/fd/4/dev/fd/4/dev/fd/4/dev/fd/4/dev/fd/4/dev/fd/4/mnt/initfs/sys/module/usbcore/drivers/usb:usbfs/module' | 00:23 |
| * lcuk changes it to scan "/home/user" and "/media" only | 00:24 | |
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| pupnik | good lord | 00:33 |
| pupnik | lcuk: what caused that? | 00:33 |
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| lcuk | i started a recursive scan and it did what i asked it to :) | 00:33 |
| lcuk | recursing the filesystem is quick enough to identify all files in the /home and /media folders quickly on entry | 00:34 |
| lcuk | of course, that isnt deep information extracted from database for thumbnails or library info, but as a quick refresh its good enough for me | 00:35 |
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| pupnik | hmm.. one could probably speed that up by storing 'last changed' date on each directory, and skipping it if it hasn't been changed since last scan | 00:39 |
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| lbt | night all | 00:41 |
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| lpotter | manyoso: I can certainly try :) | 00:43 |
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| jott | lpotter: i'm interested in the results too :) | 00:46 |
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| lcuk | pupnik, im running in powersave mode and its scanning and locating all *.txt, *pdf, *.rtf from the folders i specified in under a second | 01:08 |
| pupnik | acha nice! | 01:09 |
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| TrueJournals | Hey, I'm having a bit of trouble with the extras builder... it's just failing without reason | 01:21 |
| TrueJournals | Log: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/pyrdesktop_1.5.0-1/i386.root.log.FAILED.txt | 01:21 |
| TrueJournals | Any ideas? | 01:21 |
| pupnik | no but please document your progress for the rest of us | 01:21 |
| TrueJournals | Well, not going to make much progress :-P I have to leave for work in a bit | 01:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | TrueJournals, bad builddeps? | 01:22 |
| TrueJournals | I haven't changed them, and they've always been fine before | 01:22 |
| TrueJournals | I'm using py2deb to package | 01:23 |
| TrueJournals | I haven't upgraded it since I made the last package, which worked fine.. | 01:23 |
| TrueJournals | "Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5)" | 01:23 |
| jga23_ | anybody get maemopad+ to work with diablo? | 01:24 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It doesn't just install? | 01:26 |
| jott | TrueJournals: definitely looks like broken build instructions or so :) | 01:27 |
| TrueJournals | Hm... strange | 01:27 |
| jga23 | GeneralAntilles: nope, I get an error | 01:27 |
| jott | TrueJournals: dpkg-checkbuilddeps: error: syntax error in control file debian/control at line 13: continued value line not in field | 01:28 |
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| jott | there is an new line in the description :P | 01:28 |
| TrueJournals | Yup... | 01:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | jga23, OK, when you get an error and you want troubleshooting help, what's usually the next step? :) | 01:28 |
| TrueJournals | jott: I'm not allowed to do that? | 01:28 |
| TrueJournals | (I'm still pretty new to packaging :-P) | 01:28 |
| jott | no | 01:28 |
| jott | it's a delimiter | 01:29 |
| jott | (an empty line) | 01:29 |
| jga23 | GeneralAntilles: see if anybody has figured it out already :-) | 01:29 |
| Atarii | qrong | 01:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | jga23, no, paste the freaking error. . . . | 01:30 |
| Atarii | w* | 01:30 |
| TrueJournals | jott: Is there any way to get the double new line then? Or do I just have to deal with a single line break? | 01:30 |
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| jott | " \n" should work | 01:31 |
| TrueJournals | OK, thanks :-D | 01:31 |
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| jga23 | GeneralAntilles: unable to install maemopadplus, incompatible application package | 01:32 |
| jga23 | would using dpkg -i give me a more detailed error? | 01:32 |
| TrueJournals | jga23: dpkg -i would work | 01:32 |
| TrueJournals | The Application manager throws that error when the package isn't in section user/(...) | 01:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Where'd you get the package? | 01:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Shouldn't be a section issue | 01:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | may be a repository issue. | 01:33 |
| jga23 | GeneralAntilles: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/maemopadplus/ | 01:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Did you try installing from a repository? | 01:33 |
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| jga23 | trying now | 01:34 |
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| jga23 | hmm, not in the repo | 01:36 |
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| jga23 | ahh, its in the chinook repo, not diablo | 01:39 |
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| andre____ | anybody knows how to edit http://wiki.maemo.org/Codenames#Release_Table to add the SSU update? when clicking on edit, i only get "{{Release history table}}" - is this an "include" variant i didn't know yet? | 01:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | andre____, https://wiki.maemo.org/Template:Release_history_table | 01:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | {{}} always means Template: | 01:47 |
| andre____ | aha... | 01:47 |
| andre____ | thanks. there should be one and only one wiki markup language... :-) | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | There is | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mediawiki. :P | 01:48 |
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| andre____ | fixed, thanks :) | 01:52 |
| rm_you | GA is the local wiki guru now >_> | 01:53 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Doesn't take much. :P | 01:53 |
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| andre____ | well, we just added a link to explain the versions when filing bugs in maemo bugzilla, as it's confusing. but for that that link target should be uptodate :) | 01:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | I updated wikipedia but never got around to updating the maemo.org wiki table. . . . | 01:54 |
| andre____ | yeah, i saw your changes in wikipedia :) | 01:54 |
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| * GeneralAntilles wants his damn Beagle. | 02:18 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Still on backorder. :( | 02:18 |
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| * moontiger has finished version 0.1 of her first app :) | 02:21 | |
| andre____ | what is it? | 02:21 |
| elekt | congrats | 02:22 |
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| moontiger | ummmmm it gets your google calendar stuff and shows it on the home screen | 02:23 |
| lcuk | bollocks | 02:23 |
| elekt | lcuk be a lady | 02:24 |
| lcuk | i had to change the password on the wifi, now whenever i open network connections it locks up and freezes | 02:24 |
| andre____ | nice idea :) | 02:24 |
| moontiger | it doesnt show those yet but maybe in version 2 | 02:24 |
| moontiger | now i have to package it and all that yadayada | 02:24 |
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| lcuk | theres something wrong on the connections list, does anyone know where the connections are stored? | 02:25 |
| moontiger | lcuk... wouldnt it be in /etc/networking/something ? | 02:26 |
| lcuk | i dunno - ill have a look | 02:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | gconf, probably. | 02:27 |
| lcuk | can anyone tell me the binary name for the networking control panel program | 02:27 |
| lcuk | ill look GeneralAntilles :) | 02:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Seems like there's an UNCONFIRMED bug on something like that. . . . | 02:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Might want to see recent connectivity bugs and see if it sounds like the problem you're having. | 02:27 |
| lcuk | its not a recent os.. | 02:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh | 02:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Right | 02:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Chinook | 02:28 |
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| moontiger | GeneralAntilles, whats the advantage of using garage.maemo.org for hosting my app? | 02:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Project management | 02:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | svn | 02:31 |
| moontiger | i have svn already | 02:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | bug tracking | 02:31 |
| andre____ | libicd? | 02:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre____, what about it? | 02:31 |
| andre____ | hmm? | 02:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | moontiger, it depends a lot on the size of your application. | 02:31 |
| * Stskeeps glares at maemo initfs | 02:32 | |
| Stskeeps | why on earth does it have an -ancient- version of busybox | 02:32 |
| moontiger | GeneralAntilles, its only a home screen applet so no big thing | 02:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, Nokia didn't feel a need to upgrade? | 02:32 |
| andre____ | "binary name for the networking control panel program" - not exactly, but that's the lib behind | 02:32 |
| andre____ | Nokia will upgrade for Fremantle | 02:32 |
| Stskeeps | yes, probably | 02:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, Nokia doesn't tend to upgrade thinks for the sake of upgrading | 02:33 |
| andre____ | definitely. | 02:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Big changes in the boot process are coming for Fremantle | 02:33 |
| Stskeeps | yes, everyone tends to say that, but that doesn't help until fremantle is out ;) | 02:33 |
| andre____ | hehe | 02:33 |
| * andre____ got to get to a club... later | 02:33 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, well, we say that because a Nokia engineer mentioned it in a bug recently. | 02:34 |
| elekt | what's before freemantle | 02:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | and moaning about old versions wont change help anything, either | 02:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | elekt, Diablo | 02:35 |
| elekt | no E? | 02:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/freemantle/Fremantle/g | 02:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | elekt, they dropped Elephanta | 02:35 |
| elekt | must've hurt | 02:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pure speculation: Elephanta was 4.2, but it was dropped in favor of putting that effort directly into Fremantle. | 02:36 |
| elekt | is it gonna be big stuff? | 02:36 |
| moontiger | whats fremantle going to do for us that the romas didnt? | 02:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Fremantle? Huge. | 02:36 |
| elekt | new gui? | 02:36 |
| moontiger | romans even | 02:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Big UI workover | 02:36 |
| yacoob | aaaargha... | 02:37 |
| elekt | sweet | 02:37 |
| yacoob | ...neeed... less... | 02:37 |
| crashanddie | Question: if my software changed a version, how do I tell dpkg-buildpackage this ? Do I have to recreate a new directory with dh_make and everything ? | 02:37 |
| elekt | i think i'm gonna skip diablo | 02:37 |
| moontiger | elekt, diablo is good | 02:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | elekt, no point in skipping | 02:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Fremantle is still a ways away | 02:37 |
| elekt | i don't wanna flash, it's doing so well | 02:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | and there's already been one update to Diablo | 02:37 |
| elekt | on chinook | 02:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | and more will be coming before Fremantle hits. | 02:37 |
| elekt | if we get some music apps that will work on diablo i'll flash in a heartbeat | 02:38 |
| moontiger | elekt, such as? | 02:38 |
| crashanddie | then why not do it immediately ? | 02:38 |
| crashanddie | I mean... If it's just a heartbeat away... | 02:38 |
| elekt | music _making_ | 02:38 |
| crashanddie | LOL | 02:38 |
| elekt | apps | 02:38 |
| crashanddie | yeah, right, you want a MIDI input with that ? | 02:39 |
| moontiger | hmmmmmmmm like sequencers and such? | 02:39 |
| elekt | no midi | 02:39 |
| elekt | sequencers yeah | 02:39 |
| lcuk | why cant we produce music apps? | 02:39 |
| lcuk | why not trackers? | 02:39 |
| elekt | most need qt | 02:39 |
| moontiger | without midi it gets tricky | 02:39 |
| elekt | milkytracker isn't very good without a kb | 02:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | USB adaptor | 02:39 |
| elekt | well sort of crippled | 02:40 |
| moontiger | hmmmmmmmmm usb midi | 02:40 |
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| lcuk | we have touchscreen - this should be childsplay | 02:40 |
| elekt | yeah GA there's always a way around, but it'd be really sweet to just whip it out and make music | 02:40 |
| moontiger | but not multi-touch | 02:40 |
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| lcuk | for a tracker its not important | 02:40 |
| lcuk | people have been laying out music for years using a mouse | 02:40 |
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| elekt | no need | 02:41 |
| elekt | iphone apps are just gimmicks | 02:41 |
| elekt | music* apps | 02:41 |
| moontiger | really? for making drum tracks u dont need multi-touch? | 02:41 |
| elekt | i like programming more than jamming | 02:41 |
| lcuk | n810 technically has a keyboard | 02:41 |
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| elekt | i've been doing fine with one mouse pointer for 14 years | 02:42 |
| crashanddie | I boycott this discussion | 02:42 |
| moontiger | i would get rather bored laying a drum pattern one drum at a time | 02:42 |
| elekt | haha | 02:42 |
| moontiger | but point taken :) | 02:42 |
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| lcuk | 1 drum per key - the touch interface is for laying out your sequences | 02:42 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk, LMFAO | 02:44 |
| moontiger | the keypad only has 2 or 3 key rollover tho no? | 02:44 |
| moontiger | and the keypad kinda would suck for that too | 02:44 |
| pupnik | wasn't there a 'mmsget' program, like wget but for mms urls? | 02:44 |
| elekt | hm i wonder if you can underclock a macbook pro | 02:45 |
| elekt | this thing is so hot | 02:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | elekt, it should automatically | 02:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Assuming you have the correct settings on. | 02:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or you can force it to "low" | 02:47 |
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| jott | pupnik: mimms? | 02:56 |
| pupnik | thank youuuuu | 02:56 |
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| kaie | n810, diablo. email app, imap, ssl. I am unable to get it to fetch email. I use send/receive, nothing happens, no ui feedback. display remains at 0 messages | 02:58 |
| kaie | I'm quite confident I have configured it correctly | 02:58 |
| kaie | if I did not, I would expect some error message | 02:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | killall modest | 02:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | try again | 02:58 |
| kaie | again nothing. for fun I have not entered a password in account settings. I would expect me to prompt me | 02:59 |
| kaie | but when I hit the refresh button or use send/reveice from the menu, nothing happens | 02:59 |
| kaie | I'll to move away .modest and start over | 02:59 |
| *** Tuco2 is now known as Tuco | 02:59 | |
| kaie | interesting, it still created a .modest directory with my settings. where are the mail settings from the pre-diablo mail app? | 03:00 |
| kaie | maybe it is migrating old settings, when I start modest without a .modest dir | 03:00 |
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| kaie | probabls apps/email/Mail | 03:01 |
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| kaie | very very confusing. I killed modest. I moved away .modest and apps. I start modest, and it still knows about my email account | 03:03 |
| kaie | so maybe it's the launcher that still has the information cached | 03:03 |
| kaie | let me move away and restart system | 03:03 |
| kaie | has anyone of you used it successfully with a cyrus email server and imap/ssl ? | 03:04 |
| rm_you | i think so? | 03:04 |
| rm_you | i forget whether we' | 03:05 |
| rm_you | whether we're using cyrus still | 03:05 |
| rm_you | i set it up with cyrus several years back but i think the server has been upgraded since then by another maintainer... | 03:05 |
| rm_you | lemmie connect with telnet and see if it gives me version info | 03:06 |
| rm_you | imap is... 443? | 03:06 |
| kaie | 143 | 03:06 |
| kaie | imap/starttls is 143 | 03:06 |
| kaie | imap/ssl is 993 | 03:06 |
| rm_you | ah 143 | 03:07 |
| rm_you | hrm | 03:07 |
| rm_you | ah | 03:07 |
| kaie | weird, even after the restart it still knew about my account. time for a find|grep | 03:07 |
| rm_you | * OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 UIDPLUS CHILDREN NAMESPACE THREAD=ORDEREDSUBJECT THREAD=REFERENCES SORT QUOTA AUTH=CRAM-MD5 AUTH=CRAM-SHA1 IDLE ACL ACL2=UNION STARTTLS] Courier-IMAP ready. Copyright 1998-2005 Double Precision, Inc. See COPYING for distribution information. | 03:07 |
| rm_you | Courier-IMAP <_< | 03:07 |
| kaie | ok | 03:07 |
| rm_you | so, not sure about cyrus | 03:07 |
| rm_you | not sure why it would be especially different if it follows the spec... | 03:07 |
| rm_you | that said... yeah. i've seen those kind of random compatability issues before <_< | 03:09 |
| crashanddie | lol, how can I investigate why the .desktop/.service file doesn't work ? | 03:09 |
| crashanddie | (as in, the icon appears in the menu, but upon launch, nothing happens) | 03:09 |
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| crashanddie | now now kids, don't be shy, you can answer | 03:12 |
| lcuk | log 2 file | 03:12 |
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| crashanddie | oh | 03:13 |
| lcuk | or error stream | 03:13 |
| crashanddie | never mind | 03:13 |
| crashanddie | I'm an idiot | 03:13 |
| rm_you | that too | 03:13 |
| jott | just do it right, simple as that :D | 03:13 |
| * rm_you watches crashanddie crashandburn | 03:13 | |
| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: referred users +1 | 03:14 |
| rm_you | got one more :P | 03:14 |
| crashanddie | cloudreader 1.0.3-1 REJECTED | 03:14 |
| crashanddie | :'( | 03:14 |
| rm_you | still not close to your total tho | 03:14 |
| rm_you | hopefully he'll stop by IRC later, maybe tomorrow | 03:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 03:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | I got two more while you were sleeping. :P | 03:15 |
| rm_you | pfft | 03:15 |
| rm_you | bastard | 03:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | 8, now, I think. | 03:15 |
| rm_you | >_< | 03:16 |
| kaie | sorry, but diablo doesn't do anything for me. not with a good config, not with a fake config. never any prompts | 03:16 |
| rm_you | I only have 2 | 03:16 |
| rm_you | bah | 03:16 |
| rm_you | wait | 03:16 |
| rm_you | 3 | 03:16 |
| jott | crashanddie: shall i upload it to extras for you? | 03:16 |
| crashanddie | jott, nha that's fine, I'll wait | 03:17 |
| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: you must just know people with way too much money :P | 03:17 |
| rm_you | i can usually nearly convince people to get one, but all my friends are poor <_< | 03:17 |
| rm_you | if they weren't all poor, i'd be at like 10 | 03:18 |
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| crashanddie | http://undercity.doesntexist.com/~crashanddie/cloudreader_1.0.3-1_armel.deb | 03:27 |
| crashanddie | for those who want to try | 03:27 |
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| crashanddie | should work pretty decently | 03:27 |
| jga23 | theres no way to get mobipocket books on the IT is there? | 03:28 |
| pupnik | crashanddie: what does it do? | 03:29 |
| crashanddie | pupnik, it's a new take on RSS readers :) | 03:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | rm_you, they're half students. :P | 03:30 |
| rm_you | lol | 03:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | A couple buying them in lieu of laptops for school. | 03:30 |
| pupnik | nifty... will wget | 03:30 |
| crashanddie | Any feedback is welcome | 03:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | jga23, FBReader does mobipocket without DRM just fine. | 03:31 |
| crashanddie | jott, thanks for asking though, but I feel better, now I have an error message :D | 03:31 |
| *** vcgomes[away] is now known as vcgomes | 03:32 | |
| jott | crashanddie: hm i would not show this "Loading..." screen, otherwise a funny way to read feeds :) | 03:32 |
| crashanddie | why no loading screen ? | 03:32 |
| jott | it would probably look better when you blend between the screens | 03:33 |
| crashanddie | That's exactly what it's doing, no ? | 03:33 |
| lcuk | can i remove all stored connections from the command line? | 03:33 |
| jott | but it's distracting :) | 03:33 |
| crashanddie | jott, there's a reason why the loading screen is there, it takes time to process | 03:33 |
| jott | better make a progressbar at the bottom of the screen | 03:33 |
| crashanddie | heh | 03:33 |
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| crashanddie | I wanted an easy solution | 03:33 |
| jott | and then fade over to the result | 03:34 |
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| n800n | what's thvdeb url again? | 03:35 |
| crashanddie | [DISCLAIMER] This project is obviously based upon blatantly copied ideas from liqbase :P | 03:35 |
| n800n | deb | 03:35 |
| jott | crashanddie: and i suppose it is not loading while the "loading..." fades in and out :) | 03:35 |
| crashanddie | the fading takes one second :P | 03:36 |
| jott | yep | 03:36 |
| * lcuk pulls hair out | 03:36 | |
| crashanddie | lcuk, what's the problem ? | 03:36 |
| * rm_you helps lcuk with his hair | 03:36 | |
| lcuk | tracy asked me to get laptop setup to play movies - i couldnt remember my wifi password so i changed it, now all hell has broke loose and i cant get my nokia connected | 03:36 |
| * jott hands lcuk a toupee | 03:36 | |
| lcuk | it crashes everytime i open the connections dialog | 03:37 |
| elekt | <crashanddie> http://undercity.doesntexist.com/~crashanddie/cloudreader_1.0.3-1_armel.deb | 03:37 |
| lcuk | jott, thats a merkin, and its used - i ain't wearin that | 03:37 |
| jott | crashanddie: but really make a progressbar and fade to the result, that would most definitely increase the appeal :) | 03:37 |
| crashanddie | jott, I'll think it over | 03:38 |
| jott | lcuk: hey it's an original fetish item worth a million! :P | 03:38 |
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| lcuk | i have managed to create a new network connection item by connecting to a new network - it did that fine, theres a problem with one of the old stored items. i need to delete the stored network connections | 03:38 |
| lcuk | lol jott | 03:39 |
| crashanddie | jott, though, the appeal of the loading screen, for me, is that I just display it, process what needs to be processed, and then jump on that. I don't draw a single frame in between. Drawing stuff during processing is going to need me rethinking the whole process :P | 03:39 |
| jott | crashanddie: yeah, yeah, i understand, it's an ugly hack :P | 03:40 |
| lcuk | jott, he accepts patches ;) | 03:40 |
| jott | binary patches? :P | 03:40 |
| lcuk | is there any way for me to get this network cleared out | 03:41 |
| lcuk | or am i looking at a massive reflash :( | 03:41 |
| rm_you | closed (unavailable) source software makes baby jesus cry | 03:41 |
| lcuk | every time you close the source to an application, god kills a kitten | 03:42 |
| crashanddie | http://undercity.doesntexist.com/~crashanddie/cloudreader_1.0.3-1.tar.gz | 03:42 |
| crashanddie | stop whining, bitches | 03:42 |
| rm_you | every time you open the source to an application, god resurrects two kittens as cute cuddly zombie kittens :P | 03:43 |
| crashanddie | the source has never been closed | 03:43 |
| rm_you | i put "unavailable" in parens :P | 03:43 |
| crashanddie | it's even shared with all the user accounts on this laptop, and on the server | 03:43 |
| * lcuk is glad its not him being shouted at any more | 03:44 | |
| crashanddie | plus, are you both implying jott isn't good enough to apply binary patches? | 03:45 |
| crashanddie | Oh well, doesn't surprise me that much, really | 03:45 |
| lcuk | jott routines codes directly in binary, wearing only underpants and a cape he battles the 0 and 1s in a matrix world | 03:45 |
| * jott remembers the good old times of turbo debugger and softice :) | 03:46 | |
| rm_you | grargh | 03:46 |
| rm_you | working 40 hours in 4 days <_< | 03:46 |
| crashanddie | One of my teachers one told me: "I don't get all these guys always yelling at me for not distributing the source code; but I don't *have* source code. I just cat | gcc" | 03:47 |
| crashanddie | s/one/once | 03:47 |
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| crashanddie | jott, I remember the days of softice too... | 03:47 |
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| jott | good old dos :) | 03:48 |
| crashanddie | Hey ! People ! | 03:49 |
| crashanddie | This is my first contribution to maemo ! | 03:49 |
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| jott | woo! | 03:50 |
| * jott opens a bottle champagne | 03:50 | |
| * crashanddie dances | 03:50 | |
| jott | join us now and shaaaare the software, you'll be free haaackers youuuu'll be freeee :P | 03:51 |
| crashanddie | Hey | 03:51 |
| crashanddie | It's my first Maemo contribution, but I'm no OSS virgin, bitch :P | 03:52 |
| kaie | I declare that modest on diablo is broken. I flashed the n810, did not restore any backups, thus have a clean device. wireless works, but no email activity at all | 03:52 |
| jott | php does not count :P | 03:52 |
| * jott hides | 03:52 | |
| crashanddie | kaie, it works, djeezus | 03:52 |
| kaie | crashanddie, what is your mail config? pop/imap, plain/tls/ssl ? | 03:53 |
| kaie | I try imap/ssl | 03:53 |
| jott | works here, but i would not call it stable. | 03:53 |
| jott | imap/ssl here | 03:53 |
| crashanddie | kaie, gmail, whatever that might be | 03:53 |
| crashanddie | I'm evil, I know | 03:54 |
| crashanddie | http://mintirc.net/quotes/index.cgi?id=802 | 03:54 |
| crashanddie | I know, I'm going to hell for that joke | 03:56 |
| crashanddie | But whatever, I'm going to know people there | 03:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | kaie, did you try killall modest ? | 03:57 |
| kaie | GeneralAntilles, I have flashed the device | 03:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | That doesn't answer my question. | 03:58 |
| crashanddie | Yeah, but modest is persistent | 03:58 |
| kaie | yes I had killed it | 03:58 |
| crashanddie | It survives reboots and flashes | 03:58 |
| kaie | GeneralAntilles, when I quit the app, ps no longer shows a modest process | 03:59 |
| kaie | and I killed it in addition | 03:59 |
| kaie | killall modest, no process killed | 03:59 |
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| kaie | start mail, try to fetch mail, it doesn't even attempt to contact my server | 04:00 |
| kaie | no prompt, no ui progress status, just nothing | 04:00 |
| kaie | tools/accounts, last update remains at "never" | 04:00 |
| kaie | same with password stored in accounts, or empty | 04:00 |
| jott | kaie: maybe use tcpdump to see if any traffic is generated. | 04:00 |
| lcuk | does backup backup the whole of My Docs? | 04:02 |
| kaie | jott, I run my own mail server, and shut down my desktop mail app. I started tcpdump. I made a telnet to test that tcpdump works | 04:03 |
| kaie | then I start modest and try to fetch mail. no packes arrive at my server | 04:03 |
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| jott | hm, well. ltrace/strace modest? :) | 04:06 |
| crashanddie | kaie, reboot your device | 04:07 |
| lcuk | kaie, could something else be holding the port | 04:07 |
| crashanddie | kaie, then check with tcpdump at startup of modest | 04:07 |
| kaie | crashanddie, this was the initial attempt after flashing | 04:07 |
| kaie | nothing else could have disturbed the connection | 04:08 |
| kaie | I shall restore my backup, so I don't have to do all the manual setup on this naked device | 04:08 |
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| kaie | I don't know what would hold up the port, unless there is some firewall enabled on the n810 after flashing... | 04:10 |
| crashanddie | lol... | 04:10 |
| crashanddie | A firewall | 04:11 |
| lcuk | is the rest of the network connection ok | 04:12 |
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| lcuk | whichever way, im off 2 bed, reflashing tomrrow | 04:13 |
| kaie | absolutely | 04:13 |
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| moontiger | crashanddie, what app you finished? | 04:18 |
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| Luria | hi all | 04:25 |
| Raytray | Hello. | 04:25 |
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| crashanddie | moontiger, cloudreader | 04:36 |
| crashanddie | http://undercity.doesntexist.com/~crashanddie/cloudreader_1.0.3-1_armel.deb | 04:36 |
| moontiger | oooooooo sounds cool ... wassit? | 04:36 |
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| moontiger | it doesnt install :| | 04:41 |
| elekt | need libs | 04:43 |
| kaie | after restoring the backup, installing all apps, installing tcpdump, modest does not send any tcp packets to my mail server, on no port | 04:44 |
| kaie | while when I use the browser to open a page on the same hostname, I get packets | 04:44 |
| crashanddie | moontiger & elekt: apt-get install wget libxml++2.6c2a libsdl-ttf2.0-0 | 04:45 |
| moontiger | kaie, i cant stand modest either :) | 04:46 |
| kaie | so, with a new test, I've now been able to see at least some progress | 04:46 |
| kaie | I tried to send an email | 04:46 |
| kaie | I see the email in the outbox, and it showed "sending". after some seconds it has changed to "failed". no packages to hostname whatsoeer | 04:47 |
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| crashanddie | kaie, my usual arrogant self would tell you you fucked up the config at some point | 04:48 |
| kaie | crashanddie, how could I have done that, if I get the same results after a fresh flash of the device? | 04:48 |
| crashanddie | that's exactly what my point is | 04:48 |
| kaie | doesn't the flash remove everything in /home/user ? | 04:48 |
| crashanddie | ok | 04:49 |
| crashanddie | let me rephrase that | 04:49 |
| crashanddie | You fucked up the settings in modest, get a grip, change them, play with them. Find a connection that does work, and stop trying on your server, go from working -> non working, and note the differences and thus possible problems | 04:49 |
| crashanddie | but moaning and whining about it for 3 hours straight isn't going to solve it | 04:50 |
| crashanddie | Obviously, we don't know the answer, or we would've tried to help you, but frankly, our guess is as good as yours. So wrap it up, and start doing something useful | 04:50 |
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| kaie | please tell me, is my assumption true, that after using ./flash-3.0 diablo the device is completely clean, and only has the factory files | 04:51 |
| kaie | and nothing from me | 04:51 |
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| crashanddie | as long as you don't run the restore-backup tool, it should be clean, yes | 04:51 |
| kaie | I mean, /home/user and file system is completely clean. only some files on the internal memory card | 04:51 |
| kaie | good | 04:52 |
| kaie | then it's impossible that I could have fucked up anything | 04:52 |
| crashanddie | how is that ? | 04:52 |
| crashanddie | I mean, you're obviously feeding something to modest, right ? | 04:52 |
| crashanddie | It doesn't get its parameters for the connection out of thin air ? | 04:52 |
| crashanddie | I know some of us coders are good, but still, even virgin marry couldn't pull that one | 04:53 |
| kaie | yes, I'm entering them manually, I'm a developer, I understand mail protocols, I'm absolutely sure that I'm entering the settings correctly | 04:53 |
| crashanddie | I don't care if you're a dev, if you understand mail prots or if you fiddle with the NASA shuttle | 04:54 |
| kaie | I haven't fucked it up, but we can agree that modest simply does not work in my ocnfiguration | 04:54 |
| crashanddie | kaie, do you have a GMail account ? | 04:54 |
| kaie | whatever the cause is | 04:54 |
| kaie | crashanddie, yes | 04:55 |
| crashanddie | try to connect to it | 04:55 |
| crashanddie | kaie, yes, it is very possible Modest is borked in a way it can't connect to your specific connection settings (especially if they're very specific). But repeating it over and over isn't going to help. I'm sure you can understand that. | 04:58 |
| elekt | :D | 04:58 |
| elekt | gmail working? | 04:58 |
| crashanddie | GMail works fine here | 04:58 |
| kaie | gmail imap doesn't work either. ok, I tried to dump all but port 22. I now see that it tries to use dns, but it seems it never gets a response | 05:01 |
| moontiger | what kind of gpg key do i need to generate for packaging?? | 05:01 |
| kaie | which is weird, because the n810 browser succeeds | 05:01 |
| moontiger | kaie, where are you located? | 05:01 |
| kaie | let me try to use some other dns server, rather than the one my home router provides | 05:01 |
| kaie | home, dsl, nat | 05:01 |
| kaie | germany, t-online | 05:03 |
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| moontiger | kaie, are you sure you have a good image you are flashing from? | 05:04 |
| kaie | moontiger, yes, absolutely, checksum verified | 05:04 |
| moontiger | sorry to ask dumb questions but you never know | 05:04 |
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| kaie | so, after I changed the dns server of the wireless connection, it immediately works with gmail | 05:04 |
| kaie | I conclude my home router dns server is incompatible with modest's connection attempts, but compatible with the rest of the n810 | 05:05 |
| moontiger | so ur router dns server doesnt like the n810 | 05:05 |
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| moontiger | crashanddie, can you tell me what kind of pgp / gpg key i need to generate for uploading to extras? | 05:06 |
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| crashanddie | kaie, my usual arrogant self would conclude something else | 05:08 |
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| crashanddie | moontiger, RSA | 05:09 |
| moontiger | ok cool | 05:10 |
| crashanddie | moontiger, oh wait | 05:10 |
| crashanddie | moontiger, the SSH key needs to be RSA | 05:10 |
| crashanddie | moontiger, I think the PGP key isn't important, i'd pick the one you can do everything with | 05:11 |
| moontiger | im so confused with all this :| | 05:11 |
| moontiger | i have an ssh key and an rsa pgp key now | 05:11 |
| moontiger | hope thats enough | 05:11 |
| crashanddie | you got a garage invitation ? | 05:11 |
| kaie | and with that dns changed, the connection to my own server works, too | 05:13 |
| crashanddie | kaie, happy you got it to work | 05:14 |
| moontiger | crashanddie, what a dogs dinner of a website that is!! there is no "ssh keys" section | 05:15 |
| moontiger | think i'll just host on my own server and be done with it | 05:15 |
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| crashanddie | moontiger, please, don't | 05:15 |
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| moontiger | are there any docs that actually are correct?? | 05:16 |
| crashanddie | moontiger, https://garage.maemo.org/account/index2.php | 05:16 |
| crashanddie | moontiger, you can add your (public) SSH key there | 05:16 |
| moontiger | errrrrrrr where?? i dont see it | 05:17 |
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| moontiger | oh wait ... i havent had the invite back yet ... cant even upload keys without that ... great | 05:19 |
| moontiger | *sighs* | 05:19 |
| rm_you | the key submission page needs EXAMPLES | 05:24 |
| rm_you | so you at least know the format to put | 05:24 |
| rm_you | I tried and failed to submit my keys like 15 times | 05:24 |
| rm_you | had to get at least one extra invite from actually getting it to succeed with incorrect input | 05:25 |
| rm_you | it's like a random guessing game figuring out what to put in those boxes | 05:25 |
| moontiger | yah it really needs some work ... or people wont use it | 05:26 |
| moontiger | i mean if developers cant work out how to use a web site something needs to be made a little clearer no? | 05:27 |
| moontiger | once i work it out i dont mind helping write better pages to explain it | 05:27 |
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| Andrewfblack_ | Hello | 05:33 |
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| moontiger | how long does the invite take? i feel like im waiting for godot :| | 05:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Without X-Fade around? | 05:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Longer than usual. | 05:35 |
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| GeneralAntilles | rm_you, feel free to improve: | 05:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~uploading-extras | 05:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~extras-upload | 05:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~upload-extras | 05:36 |
| infobot | [upload-extras] http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras | 05:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 05:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | I will remember one of these days! | 05:36 |
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| rm_you | how can I improve it? I *STILL* don't understand exactly what is supposed to go in those fields | 05:36 |
| rm_you | X-Fade or someone who knows what is going on needs to just post some sample formatting data | 05:37 |
| crashanddie_ | improve what ? | 05:37 |
| crashanddie_ | what fields ? Lol | 05:37 |
| crashanddie_ | anyway, almost 4AM | 05:39 |
| crashanddie_ | I'm out | 05:39 |
| crashanddie_ | cheers | 05:39 |
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| emma | maemo ♥ one of my favorite channels. How are you guys? | 05:42 |
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| moontiger | GeneralAntilles, when will xfade be unfading? | 05:50 |
| kaie | hi emma, fine, you? | 05:51 |
| emma | cool :) | 05:53 |
| * moontiger *really* doesnt like making icons and such for software | 06:03 | |
| pupnik | i do | 06:04 |
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| Andrewfblack_ | Khertan_n810 you here? | 06:20 |
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| GeneralAntilles | moontiger, whenever he gets back from vacation | 06:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe a week or two. | 06:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't remember | 06:23 |
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| GeneralAntilles | moontiger, September 6th. http://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/Sprint4#Sprint_4_planning | 06:25 |
| moontiger | GeneralAntilles, ok thnx ... so no go til then right? | 06:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | moontiger, I dunno who he delegated invite processing to | 06:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | You could either hit -developers | 06:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | or maybe poke Ed Bartosh directly. | 06:27 |
| moontiger | where would i find those? | 06:27 |
| moontiger | pupnik, you like making icons and such? | 06:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~maemo-lists is http://maemo.org/community/mailing-lists.html | 06:28 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles: okay | 06:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ed's email should be pretty easy to find | 06:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | ed.bartosh@nokia.com or similar. | 06:28 |
| pupnik | moontiger: i'm not pro at it but i like pixel twiddling yes | 06:28 |
| moontiger | want to make some icons for my applet? :) | 06:28 |
| moontiger | GeneralAntilles, i can email ed directly? | 06:29 |
| * GeneralAntilles can't decide if he wants to start making the Maemo branding changeover on the site slowly or whole-hog once people get back from vacation. . . . | 06:29 | |
| GeneralAntilles | moontiger, sure. | 06:29 |
| moontiger | ok thnx | 06:29 |
| moontiger | GeneralAntilles, ok i emailed him ... why hasnt he written me back already? | 06:31 |
| * moontiger grins | 06:31 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Because he hates you | 06:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | a lot | 06:31 |
| moontiger | oh :( | 06:31 |
| moontiger | oh well ... tomorrow is another day! | 06:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | It'll take at least 6 hours for the boiling rage to simmer down. ;) | 06:32 |
| moontiger | wow that means i could go out and mingle with the humans.... weird | 06:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Humans are dirty things. | 06:34 |
| * GeneralAntilles fixes XHTML compliance issues along with the typos and lame grammar. | 06:36 | |
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| * moontiger shudders | 06:41 | |
| moontiger | naaaaa i'll stay home and geek ... friday night is bridge and tunnel brigade night anyways | 06:41 |
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| * GeneralAntilles wonders why he's doing work that people who are actually getting paid should be doing. . . . :P | 06:47 | |
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| andre____ | heh. open source... | 06:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre____, just getting home or just getting up? :P | 06:55 |
| andre____ | just got home :) | 06:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Damn! | 06:55 |
| andre____ | i don't get up at 6AM, really ;-) | 06:55 |
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| * GeneralAntilles only does when he sleep schedule happens to wander around that way. | 06:55 | |
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| andre____ | schedule? come on, we're young! :-P | 06:56 |
| andre____ | just need to catch my train in five hours, and my flight later on... | 06:56 |
| andre____ | will work out, somehoe | 06:57 |
| andre____ | w | 06:57 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 06:57 |
| * moontiger wanders off looking for icons... | 06:58 | |
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| andre_ | night | 06:59 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Updated: https://maemo.org/development/bugs.html | 07:07 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lol | 07:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | There are "<p>\n</p>"'s in here instead of <br/>. . . . | 07:24 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Wow, no newlines at all in this one. . . . | 07:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Whoever put together this page: https://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_3-x_bora/ needs to either be fired or stop doing things drunk. | 07:48 |
| bef0rd | lol. | 07:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's a bunch of completely arbitrary elements here | 07:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | and random \t's | 07:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | and random empty comments | 07:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | and hard-wrapped text where all the hardwrapping \n's were removed. | 07:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | This is cool: <blockquote></blockquote> | 07:52 |
| arachnist | GeneralAntilles: at least it's not <blockquote /> | 07:58 |
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| GeneralAntilles | arachnist, atleast. :\ | 08:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | "<blockquote><ul><p> \n<br/>\t</ul></blockquote>" | 08:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Why? . . . | 08:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | HA | 08:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | The <blockquote>'s are used instead of <br/>'s in some places. | 08:07 |
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| pupnik | maybe not everyone knows proper html | 08:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | pupnik, fair enough, but did you SEE the page? | 08:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | There are limits to the acceptability of the "but I didn't know!" excuse | 08:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | and those limits were most certainly breached here. | 08:42 |
| pupnik | ok will look - i'm a bit caught up with trying to figure out how to stay alive in 2009 atm | 08:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Besides, you'd figure that Nokia would have pride enough in their work to be able to generate a few pages of at least PASSABLE HTML. | 08:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Doesn't matter, it's all gone now. ;) | 08:42 |
| pupnik | eww ok | 08:43 |
| pupnik | ++ | 08:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | The world's ending in December, anyway. | 08:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | So it doesn't matter. | 08:43 |
| RST38h | what's in december? | 08:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | An arbitrary date. Isn't that how all the doomsday predictor do it? :P | 08:43 |
| RST38h | no. | 08:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/predictor/predictors/ | 08:43 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: An arbitrary date. Isn't that how all the doomsday predictors do it? :P | 08:43 |
| RST38h | usually, you have to tie it to an event | 08:43 |
| RST38h | Like "the day they fire up the LHC" or "the day Apple finally gets bought by Microsoft" | 08:44 |
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| pupnik | OK, naive LHC question. I've read 1) LHC will accelerate counter-rotating particles to close to the speed of light. and 2) the energies produced will be lower than cosmic rays hitting the earth. but if cosmic rays don't travel faster than the speed of light, and the relative collision speed of the LHC particles is close to 2c... how is that possible? | 08:58 |
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| pupnik | ok #physics helped me out :) | 09:11 |
| moontiger | pupnik, what was the answer? | 09:12 |
| pupnik | relativistically, the opposing beams do not see each other as approaching with 2c | 09:13 |
| pupnik | or ~2c | 09:13 |
| arachnist | well | 09:14 |
| arachnist | obviously they could not see each other | 09:14 |
| pupnik | do you have a pet tarantula by chance? | 09:16 |
| arachnist | no | 09:18 |
| moontiger | is that because c is an absolute? | 09:25 |
| arachnist | C is an absolute. There's also asm, but C is more absolute ;) | 09:26 |
| moontiger | ha de ha ha ;) | 09:26 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: energy of a particle is mv^2/2 | 09:38 |
| RST38h | pupnik: energy of a photon is hf | 09:38 |
| RST38h | pupnik: notice that the second formula does not contain the speed at all while the first formula also contains m | 09:38 |
| inz | RST, _kinetic_ energy of a particle | 09:39 |
| RST38h | also, even "relative" speed cannot exceed c | 09:39 |
| RST38h | inz: mv^2/3 | 09:39 |
| RST38h | sorry, /2 | 09:39 |
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| RST38h | http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3631 | 09:52 |
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| RST38h | http://ariya.blogspot.com/2008/08/qt-44-and-maemo.html | 09:54 |
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| pupnik | interestingk | 10:09 |
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| arachnist | interezding | 10:13 |
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| moontiger | so it has the hardware ... juts no drivers to use it | 10:35 |
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| Pavlz-1 | hello | 10:38 |
| Pavlz-1 | do you remember ? | 10:39 |
| Pavlz-1 | last night i nnounced that the charger battery of my nokia 770 cracked | 10:39 |
| Pavlz-1 | and i have not one anymore ? | 10:39 |
| Pavlz-1 | i toke a charger of ericsson of cell phone k608 | 10:40 |
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| Pavlz-1 | cutted the shell | 10:40 |
| Pavlz-1 | after i toke the circuit and i unmount the cables of sony ericsson and i mounted the nokia 770 cables | 10:41 |
| moontiger | did it work? | 10:41 |
| Pavlz-1 | without any problem | 10:41 |
| moontiger | nice work! :) | 10:42 |
| Pavlz-1 | it is charging the battery | 10:42 |
| Pavlz-1 | the sony ericsson works to 4.9 volt to 850 mA | 10:42 |
| Pavlz-1 | the nokia to 5 volt to 890 mA | 10:42 |
| moontiger | thats great ... one less wasted fone charger in the world and one less charger needed for 770 :) | 10:43 |
| arachnist | you know | 10:43 |
| arachnist | you can boot of n800 using se k800i battery | 10:43 |
| Pavlz-1 | it is the same | 10:43 |
| arachnist | though you have to hold it, cause it's a lot smaller | 10:44 |
| Pavlz-1 | i used a k608i | 10:44 |
| Pavlz-1 | it is the 608 | 10:44 |
| Pavlz-1 | i for italy | 10:44 |
| qwerty12 | i is for international actually | 10:44 |
| qwerty12 | c is for China | 10:44 |
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| Pavlz-1 | there isnot any differece | 10:44 |
| arachnist | well, italy isn't everywhere | 10:44 |
| arachnist | as opposed to what some script kiddies on ircnet would want to belive | 10:44 |
| Pavlz-1 | i got the k608, it broken the lcd 70 euro | 10:45 |
| Pavlz-1 | so used the carger of my mom | 10:45 |
| Pavlz-1 | charger | 10:45 |
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| Pavlz-1 | qwerty12 are you in China ? | 10:46 |
| qwerty12 | Pavlz-1: No, London. But I used to mod Sony Ericsson phones so I know about them | 10:47 |
| moontiger | i used to live in london | 10:47 |
| arachnist | se phones are cool | 10:47 |
| arachnist | modable, hackable | 10:47 |
| Pavlz-1 | no necessity to buy a new charger | 10:48 |
| Pavlz-1 | 30 euro in Italy | 10:48 |
| Pavlz-1 | 44,3610 dollars | 10:49 |
| qwerty12 | £23! | 10:49 |
| pupnik | euro 24 in berlin @ linuxtag | 10:49 |
| pupnik | i thought that was expensive | 10:49 |
| pupnik | wow look at the metals markets | 10:49 |
| Pavlz-1 | in pound 23,9537 | 10:50 |
| qwerty12 | That's a con, I bought a new genuine nokia charger for my N800 recently, £5.50 including Postage and VAT | 10:50 |
| Pavlz-1 | only for a charger | 10:50 |
| pupnik | nice qwerty12 | 10:50 |
| qwerty12 | Thanks :) | 10:50 |
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| qwerty12 | Pavlz-1: Yeah, wow, that is a lot. £5.50 = 6.90064 EUR | 10:51 |
| Pavlz-1 | 6,8883 | 10:52 |
| Pavlz-1 | euro | 10:52 |
| qwerty12 | Of course, if I'd have known I still had the old nokia charger type (the plug that fits on the N-Gage and 3310 for example), I'd have just bought an adapter. I much prefer the old charger. | 10:53 |
| Pavlz-1 | i am doing with financial yahoo | 10:53 |
| Pavlz-1 | the conversion | 10:53 |
| qwerty12 | Ah, I'm using xe | 10:53 |
| Pavlz-1 | in italy all is more expensive then 5 times | 10:53 |
| qwerty12 | Sigh, British burglars :( | 10:53 |
| qwerty12 | http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1048026/Pictured-The-burglar-left-dangling-shoelaces-victims-bay-window.html | 10:53 |
| Pavlz-1 | this is the example for a charger 5,50 pound | 10:54 |
| Pavlz-1 | in italy the same 30 euro | 10:54 |
| Pavlz-1 | 5x | 10:54 |
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| Pavlz-1 | Itsly is more expensive than England | 10:55 |
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| Pavlz-1 | incredible | 10:55 |
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| qwerty12 | Heh, my sister is always on about how the UK is expensive for stuff :D | 10:56 |
| moontiger | Khertan_n810, does adding transparency to the apps make them heavier and slower? | 10:56 |
| qwerty12 | I'll tell her about Italy :D | 10:56 |
| Pavlz-1 | but Berlusconi says : all is ok !!!! | 10:56 |
| Pavlz-1 | it is a Buffon !!!! | 10:56 |
| moontiger | berlusconi.... pah! | 10:57 |
| Pavlz-1 | :-) | 10:57 |
| doc|home | I've lived in Italy, rent is cheap | 10:57 |
| doc|home | and yes, he's a tool | 10:57 |
| Pavlz-1 | where you lived in Italy to find cheap rent ? | 10:57 |
| doc|home | Torino | 10:58 |
| Pavlz-1 | is possible | 10:58 |
| Pavlz-1 | why in Rome is all more expensive | 10:58 |
| doc|home | where are you from? | 10:58 |
| doc|home | ah, yeah | 10:58 |
| moontiger | Pavlz-1, where in italy are you? | 10:58 |
| Pavlz-1 | Roma | 10:58 |
| doc|home | but prettier girls :) | 10:58 |
| doc|home | I'd guess... | 10:58 |
| moontiger | ive een there a couple of times | 10:58 |
| moontiger | been too | 10:58 |
| Pavlz-1 | i prefeer strangers | 10:58 |
| doc|home | girls from torino were purdy | 10:58 |
| Pavlz-1 | they give more easy | 10:59 |
| doc|home | haha | 10:59 |
| doc|home | can't say I had that experience :( speaking no Italian is annoying :) | 10:59 |
| moontiger | Pavlz-1, like the german tourists you mean? | 10:59 |
| doc|home | night | 10:59 |
| Pavlz-1 | yes, polish | 10:59 |
| moontiger | ;) | 10:59 |
| Pavlz-1 | german wow | 11:00 |
| Pavlz-1 | very expert in sex | 11:00 |
| moontiger | very precise and efficient | 11:01 |
| Pavlz-1 | :-) | 11:01 |
| Pavlz-1 | yeah | 11:01 |
| Pavlz-1 | i see you know | 11:01 |
| moontiger | hehe i lived in milano for a little while | 11:02 |
| Pavlz-1 | there are german girls ? | 11:02 |
| moontiger | they would come for the holidays in the summer | 11:02 |
| Pavlz-1 | :-) | 11:02 |
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| Pavlz-1 | very interesting | 11:02 |
| Pavlz-1 | i could left the chat to start and to go in Milan to search German girls | 11:03 |
| * moontiger laughs | 11:03 | |
| moontiger | i have to go to ed now i think ... its getting late | 11:03 |
| arachnist | german girls? | 11:03 |
| moontiger | ed = bed | 11:03 |
| * arachnist laughs | 11:03 | |
| Pavlz-1 | what time is it ? | 11:04 |
| moontiger | laterz :) | 11:04 |
| moontiger | its 1am | 11:04 |
| arachnist | moontiger: you want to go to bed with ed? | 11:04 |
| moontiger | hahaha not really | 11:04 |
| Pavlz-1 | here in italy 10:04 a.m | 11:04 |
| moontiger | im in san francisco | 11:04 |
| Pavlz-1 | wow | 11:04 |
| arachnist | moontiger: you prefer tables? :> | 11:04 |
| Pavlz-1 | lucky you | 11:04 |
| Pavlz-1 | :-( | 11:04 |
| * arachnist stops it | 11:04 | |
| moontiger | im moving to madrid at the the end of the year | 11:05 |
| Pavlz-1 | too spanish are very precise | 11:05 |
| moontiger | arachnist, im easy ... floors tables beds chairs ... its all good ;) | 11:05 |
| Pavlz-1 | and efficients | 11:05 |
| moontiger | yeah im missing europe i think :) | 11:05 |
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| Pavlz-1 | it 's late for me i stay up all the night | 11:06 |
| Pavlz-1 | i go to sleep | 11:06 |
| moontiger | maybe u need some sleep too? | 11:06 |
| Pavlz-1 | 8 hours | 11:06 |
| moontiger | see you again maybe .... ciao :) | 11:06 |
| Pavlz-1 | 6 p.m. i am here | 11:06 |
| Pavlz-1 | 6 p.m. Italy | 11:07 |
| moontiger | ;) | 11:07 |
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| Pavlz-1 | ah | 11:07 |
| Pavlz-1 | just a think | 11:07 |
| Pavlz-1 | could you suggest me a client sip for my deb ? | 11:07 |
| Pavlz-1 | ekiga don't like me | 11:07 |
| Pavlz-1 | gnomenetmeeting does not work, it say that don't find the sound blaster of my notebook | 11:08 |
| Pavlz-1 | which can i install ? | 11:09 |
| Pavlz-1 | could i install ? | 11:09 |
| arachnist | s/[ ]\?/?/g | 11:09 |
| Pavlz-1 | what ? | 11:10 |
| arachnist | the proper way of saying "don't put spaces in front of '?'" | 11:10 |
| * qwerty12 doesn't speak sed | 11:10 | |
| * arachnist does. in real life too. | 11:11 | |
| Pavlz-1 | asterisk ? | 11:11 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12: i booted deblet from a file yesterday.. worst.. hack.. of.. my .. life | 11:32 |
| qwerty12 | Ouch. You mean from an image? | 11:32 |
| Stskeeps | yup | 11:32 |
| * qwerty12 hates images | 11:32 | |
| qwerty12 | The speed is horrible >.< | 11:32 |
| Stskeeps | actually wasnt that bad initially, but yeah | 11:33 |
| Stskeeps | i made installer so people can debootstrap and install onto a image | 11:33 |
| Stskeeps | and it adds a boot menu item that allows people to boot in | 11:33 |
| Stskeeps | main challenge.. busybox 1.0.0 in initfs does not support loopback :> | 11:33 |
| qwerty12 | Unless you can get a uclibc toolchain, you won't be making a new version :) | 11:34 |
| Stskeeps | so i put a busybox with only mount enabled on the FAT filesystem, mount it without noexec, run a linuxrc on the fat filesystem that mounts the image file | 11:34 |
| qwerty12 | That reminds me, remember what you said about stracing programs on initfs? | 11:34 |
| Stskeeps | mm? | 11:34 |
| Stskeeps | and the linuxrc then mount -o remount,noexec /mnt/new_root | 11:34 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:34 |
| qwerty12 | It's not really accurate, the strace is using glibc while programs in initfs use uclibc, I think someone already said that on bugzilla and then that was said | 11:35 |
| qwerty12 | cool :) | 11:35 |
| qwerty12 | s/then/when/ | 11:35 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: ltrace was better than strace i think | 11:35 |
| Stskeeps | in this manner | 11:35 |
| qwerty12 | ah, ok | 11:36 |
| Stskeeps | but what i made makes it possible to make a "Easy Debian" with a image file, "Simple" mode where it builds a .img file and debootstraps onto it - so people can hybrid both boot into it and chroot into it | 11:37 |
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| qwerty12 | Hmm, I like the idea. But I'd personally prefer it to be left as it is and the chroot guys to chroot from a block partition | 11:38 |
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| qwerty12 | Even with Android, it ran much faster off a proper partition | 11:38 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, that's the best choice really | 11:38 |
| Stskeeps | and that's what i would recommend myself | 11:38 |
| Stskeeps | but some want to try out debian "easily" without re-partitioning and all that jaz | 11:39 |
| Stskeeps | z | 11:39 |
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| qwerty12 | yeah, true, I guess that's one of the reasons chroot appeals to them :/ | 11:39 |
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| Stskeeps | also i had to include mknod /dev/loop0 stuff in initfs installer :P | 11:40 |
| Stskeeps | since it was missing loopback device | 11:40 |
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| qwerty12 | Yeah, I've wondered how it was looped, it misses tools like losetup etc. | 11:41 |
| Stskeeps | magic :> http://rafb.net/p/WW0UOY34.html | 11:42 |
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| qwerty12 | I'm wary about installing your initfs :) | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | i understand that.. yesterday i found out that if you had -two- boot items, it would not show any | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | so i had to fix that | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | (it still showed internal flash) | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | but i think i've ironed out the bugs now | 11:44 |
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| qwerty12 | crap, an alias better work. | 11:46 |
| * qwerty12 is trying to get "g++-4.2" | 11:46 | |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 11:47 |
| qwerty12 | I've got g++ which --version says it's 4.2.3 but when I symlink it, stupid sb_wrapper won't recognise it >.< | 11:47 |
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| qwerty12 | ~curse scratchbox | 11:47 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, scratchbox ! | 11:47 |
| qwerty12 | ~curse infobot for crap curses | 11:47 |
| infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, infobot for crap curses ! | 11:47 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: so what other mods do you have in your initfs? | 11:48 |
| Stskeeps | other than the logo stuff | 11:48 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: relatively, not much. I keep an bootmenu.conf with a quite a few entries, I make the bootmenu black so my eyes only kill for one second, keep modules for framebuffer, I've replaced most of the modules with my own ones compiled from a preempt kernel designed to match the kernel I have flashed, I fix the show_rd_versions so that booting from ... doesn't get rid of it, I make rd_versions show all the time regardless if I have rd_mode t | 11:51 |
| qwerty12 | urned off :P | 11:51 |
| liri | did bef0rd share with anyone his experience of getting pykaraoke_mini to work on the n810? | 11:52 |
| qwerty12 | Atm, I'm messing around and seeing if I can get the mtdblock4 to be mounted over usb | 11:52 |
| liri | we both started working on it but he tried it first on the n810 itself while I was checking it in scratchbox | 11:52 |
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| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: what I really want to do though is get a uClibc 0.9.28 toolchain so that I can compile mtd-tools for initfs and be able to dump and restore my rootfs from the bootmenu | 11:55 |
| Stskeeps | *nod* | 11:56 |
| Stskeeps | i thought about loadable .imgs from SD as a possibility to extend initfs as well | 11:56 |
| Stskeeps | such as dropbear.img or parted.img or whatever | 11:56 |
| qwerty12 | Yeah, I like the sound of that | 11:57 |
| lcuk | qwerty, what time is it | 11:57 |
| Stskeeps | but that's a bit disturbed by the fact busybox doesnt do loopback | 11:57 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk: around 10:00 AM | 11:57 |
| lcuk | thats what i thought, nokia flasher is telling me its wrong | 11:58 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk: someone had that problem on the itt forums, I can't remember where though | 11:58 |
| Stskeeps | -but- it would be possible to have a linuxrc boot item that is "Recovery tools" that starts up /media/mmc1/linuxrc.recovery for instance | 11:58 |
| Stskeeps | that then can supplement with recovery image | 11:58 |
| lcuk | great - it waits until device is plugged in before downloading the firmware | 11:58 |
| Stskeeps | since linuxrc runs inside initfs | 11:59 |
| qwerty12 | yeah | 11:59 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk: go on tablets-dev and grab the firmware manually. and then flash it in linux :> | 11:59 |
| lcuk | oh ffs, i just set internet time, and its knocked clock back to 9am | 11:59 |
| lcuk | 42seconds left.. | 11:59 |
| GAN800 | failfailfail | 11:59 |
| lcuk | english time keeping fails | 11:59 |
| liri | I got myself a micro sd adapter for the n810, would both micro sd and micro sdhc are supposed to work with it? | 12:00 |
| lcuk | it was all in sync before | 12:00 |
| lcuk | i hope diablo is stable | 12:00 |
| GAN800 | liri, formactor doesn't affect the standard. | 12:00 |
| GAN800 | SDHC is SDHC is SDHC | 12:00 |
| qwerty12 | Hmm, maybe I'm hoping here, but is there a tool that can get information about a lib file? Hex editor isn't helping me here :/ | 12:01 |
| liri | GAN800: well I'm just not familiar with these things so I was wondering. no idea what's the HC is supposed to mean either | 12:01 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: nm -D | 12:01 |
| GAN800 | high capacity | 12:01 |
| lcuk | qwerty12, what are you aiming for? strings type things or details of a jump table or something? | 12:01 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: Thanks :) | 12:02 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk: more about strings, I want to find the exact version of uclibc used | 12:02 |
| liri | GAN800: but does it mean that the internal structure of the micro sdhc card itself is different or something? | 12:02 |
| lcuk | ahhh k | 12:02 |
| qwerty12 | if nokia are being assholes about it, I'll compile my own | 12:02 |
| GAN800 | liri, forget the formactor. Micro and Mini aren't relevant. | 12:03 |
| GAN800 | SDHC just addresses larger blocks. | 12:03 |
| lcuk | am i safe to restore from a chinook backup? | 12:04 |
| GAN800 | lcuk, unless you did some funky stuff. | 12:04 |
| lcuk | no, but my networking was broken last night | 12:04 |
| lcuk | oh shat! i cant build packages without a whole hassle | 12:04 |
| GAN800 | Well, restore and see if it works | 12:04 |
| GAN800 | if not, reflash and don't restore. | 12:05 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk: remember to use diablo sdk repo now :> | 12:05 |
| lcuk | i just need to confirm networking works - it broke yesterday | 12:06 |
| RST38h | moo all | 12:08 |
| qwerty12 | Bollocks, I don't know the exact config used by nokia regarding uclibc. I'm tempted to "make randconfig" Use random values for all options." | 12:08 |
| qwerty12 | Hey RST38h | 12:08 |
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| RST38h | Nobody is downloading MasterGear =) | 12:09 |
| RST38h | 45 downloads, weird | 12:09 |
| RST38h | file from the homepage has clocked a 1000+ | 12:09 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: how difficult would it be to make something akin personal menu that gets stuff from Debian menu system? | 12:09 |
| Stskeeps | like, automatically | 12:10 |
| qwerty12 | no idea, sorry | 12:10 |
| Stskeeps | k | 12:10 |
| * qwerty12 checks logs for CFLAGS, i'm pretty sure we have a "Arm 1136JF-S " | 12:10 | |
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| * Stskeeps watches another debootstrap onto a file | 12:20 | |
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| lbt | morning all | 12:20 |
| qwerty12 | morning | 12:22 |
| * qwerty12 compiles kernel-source-diablo again. didn't realise clibc would be linked against it | 12:22 | |
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| * lbt got permission to put deblet on his tablet this weekend :D | 12:23 | |
| lbt | after I've done my chores... :( | 12:23 |
| lbt | <sigh> | 12:24 |
| pupnik | what does deblet do? | 12:24 |
| lbt | Debian | 12:24 |
| pupnik | oh | 12:24 |
| Stskeeps | pupnik: it's basically a deriative of debian for the tablets, with support packages to support the tablet features/bugs | 12:24 |
| Stskeeps | it bases fully on debian and adds some things | 12:24 |
| Stskeeps | we just can't call it debian for obvious reasons | 12:24 |
| pupnik | I wonder if polishing up gp2x UAE and SNES and uploading to extras will yield fame, fortune and the adoration of millions of groupies? | 12:25 |
| pupnik | naah | 12:25 |
| Stskeeps | hehe. or decrease worldwide productivity ;) | 12:25 |
| lbt | d'oh, rapid response plumbing... l8r | 12:26 |
| RST38h | maemo.org/downloads navigation is screwed up | 12:26 |
| RST38h | too much javascript, I guess | 12:26 |
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| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: Do you have usb networking in initfs and some time? :) | 13:08 |
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| lcuk | qwerty12, :) its easier this time round to install everything, im even documenting it as i go to hopefully let others dev on device ;) | 13:31 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk: heh, great :). I may set up an dev environment on mmc boot. Although I'd set it up properly (i.e removing busybox) | 13:33 |
| lcuk | yer, still a bit far for me, but at least after this ill know i can install on my own :) | 13:34 |
| qwerty12 | :) | 13:34 |
| lcuk | i think the only tricky thing remaining is buildpackage but even thats not gonna be so difficult | 13:35 |
| qwerty12 | Despite not being a fan of it on the tablets, I should learn python. I keep hearing about how it's a good powerful language for beginners (or n00bs like me!) | 13:35 |
| lcuk | its good as glue if you want to use that from over there with this from over here | 13:35 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk: yeah, do your modification to that file and install a gnu version of that tool I think | 13:35 |
| lcuk | theres a whole stream of files which need handling and modifying | 13:36 |
| qwerty12 | I think what would be easier on that front was making a deb file that will install the tools needed under different names and getting the preinst to run sed on a bunch of file to change them automatically | 13:36 |
| lcuk | im wondering if it would be worth documenting the patch and repackaging it, but since its only for me im not sure it will be worth it | 13:36 |
| lcuk | lol | 13:36 |
| qwerty12 | heh :) | 13:37 |
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| lcuk | well :) liqbase has now completely rebuilt and run from source | 13:37 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: ping. I lied about usb networking, only chroot to initfs is needed :D :) | 13:37 |
| lcuk | and im over ssh and i have root and all that, its easier this time round ;) | 13:37 |
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| qwerty12 | Yeah, ssh is a lifesaver | 13:39 |
| qwerty12 | When the tablet refuses to unmount its memory cards and let me mount them over usb, all I have to do is scp to /media/mmc2 | 13:40 |
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| RST38h | hey, lcuk, I have not installed liqbase for a while, what is new in it? =) | 13:56 |
| RST38h | (the one I installed was just a demo) | 13:56 |
| lcuk | nothing released :) but lots new, you will have to wait | 13:57 |
| RST38h | ah | 13:57 |
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| pupnik | geek humor (yet again) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8PyaeQDIw8 8-bit C64 Sid Rick Rolling | 14:19 |
| pupnik | feel free to tell me to can it if the offtopicness annoys any of you | 14:20 |
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| crashanddie | jott, Ed bartosch told me to feck off :D | 14:35 |
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| lcuk | pupnik, human humour http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1048026/Pictured-The-burglar-left-dangling-shoelaces-victims-bay-window.html | 14:38 |
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| kkrusty | hi | 14:43 |
| kkrusty | I got a n810 yesterday and I just tried using a microsd card with a minisd card coverter. The n810 wasnt responding so I pulled out the battery and put it back again. Now nothing is working | 14:43 |
| LinuxCode | sounds fishy | 14:45 |
| LinuxCode | works perfectly fine here | 14:45 |
| kkrusty | Its not turning on | 14:45 |
| msh_ | is it new from a shop? sounds like a refund job. | 14:46 |
| LinuxCode | could be a battery/power fault | 14:46 |
| kkrusty | ordered it from play.com | 14:46 |
| LinuxCode | thats where i got mine from hehe | 14:46 |
| lcuk | kkrusty, with it all switched off, plug the charger in and see what happens | 14:46 |
| LinuxCode | must still be the cheapest | 14:46 |
| LinuxCode | hey lcuk | 14:47 |
| lcuk | hi LinuxCode :) | 14:47 |
| LinuxCode | im back in the uk again | 14:47 |
| lcuk | life being good to you? | 14:47 |
| LinuxCode | finally | 14:47 |
| LinuxCode | well ..lol | 14:47 |
| kkrusty | already did that | 14:47 |
| LinuxCode | wrong question... | 14:47 |
| lcuk | and what happens | 14:47 |
| lcuk | ok | 14:47 |
| LinuxCode | i thought i told you | 14:47 |
| kkrusty | lcuk: nothing :( | 14:47 |
| LinuxCode | my dad passed away end of june..been abroad sorting stuff out | 14:47 |
| lcuk | kkrusty, check the plug you are using works.. | 14:48 |
| LinuxCode | been a nightmare | 14:48 |
| lcuk | bah LinuxCode :( | 14:48 |
| LinuxCode | paperwork still ongoing | 14:48 |
| LinuxCode | at least the flat is cleared | 14:48 |
| kkrusty | lcuk: the charger is fine | 14:49 |
| kkrusty | just checked it with a mobile phone | 14:49 |
| lcuk | did you replace the battery correctly? | 14:49 |
| lcuk | ok | 14:49 |
| LinuxCode | could be the battery | 14:49 |
| lcuk | with charger in what happens when you press and hold power | 14:49 |
| LinuxCode | never tried if it works without | 14:49 |
| lcuk | it doesnt | 14:49 |
| LinuxCode | k | 14:49 |
| lcuk | i have the charger in most times i end up popping battery | 14:50 |
| LinuxCode | thought it wouldnt | 14:50 |
| lcuk | it just dies | 14:50 |
| kkrusty | lcuk: nothing | 14:50 |
| LinuxCode | kkrusty, send it back | 14:50 |
| lcuk | warranty replacement time :) | 14:50 |
| lcuk | remove the memory card though first | 14:50 |
| lcuk | and check it again | 14:50 |
| kkrusty | lcuk: Im trying it without the memory card | 14:51 |
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| thux | can all os2008 versions use same repositories from gronmayer page? | 15:07 |
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| pupnik_ | os2008 programs tend to work on os2008 OS | 15:17 |
| pupnik_ | did that answer your question thux ? | 15:18 |
| t_s_o | seems i have bumped into someone else that have issues with vanishing emails. but getting that person add to a bug report, hmm... | 15:19 |
| pupnik_ | vanishing from device? or not getting transferred from pop | 15:26 |
| thux | pupnik_: yes suppose so just wondered if diablo any diffrent than first os2008 release | 15:26 |
| pupnik_ | ah ok, i don't know about diablo compatibility problems, if any (sorry) | 15:27 |
| pupnik_ | "Things are going to get much, much worse." - River Tam | 15:27 |
| lcuk | river tam is the kinda girl you want fighting on your team | 15:33 |
| pupnik_ | Curse you Fox Broadcasting! We hatesss it! We hatess it forevaaah! | 15:33 |
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| pupnik_ | would have been so much better if it had run a couple of years instead of having the whole plot arc compressed to a 2 hr movie | 15:34 |
| * lcuk . o O ( nights with kaylee ) | 15:34 | |
| pupnik_ | :D | 15:34 |
| pupnik_ | you can have River. Kaylee is MINE! | 15:34 |
| lcuk | politely pupnik_ feck off, shes mine! mwah ahh ahhh ahhhh | 15:35 |
| lcuk | when did you get round to watching it, as broadcast or recently? | 15:36 |
| * pupnik_ offers his favorite gun, 'Vera' for Kaylee | 15:36 | |
| pupnik_ | what's your favorite episode lcuk | 15:36 |
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| lcuk | i have trouble with names, i had ep numbers and they all kinda blended into one | 15:37 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw0jzGuvo4M | 15:38 |
| RST38h | Umgh | 15:38 |
| pupnik_ | it'd have to be 'Ariel' for me, i think. Followed in no particular order by Jaynestown, and Out Of Gas | 15:38 |
| RST38h | Why has the subject of Firefly come up? | 15:39 |
| pupnik_ | because it is always and forever appropriate and awesome | 15:39 |
| RST38h | hehe | 15:39 |
| pupnik_ | actually i quoted River after reviewing economic indicators... | 15:39 |
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| RST38h | Oh, there is a better quote about those... | 15:42 |
| RST38h | Lemme look it up | 15:42 |
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| Binky | Hii | 15:46 |
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| RST38h | "...and, like all precious things placed in harm's way, it got destroyed." | 15:48 |
| Binky | Anyone can tell me how to solve this? | 15:49 |
| Binky | I had an error in my /var/lib/dpkg/status | 15:50 |
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| pupnik_ | i forgot... is there a backup status file in there Binky ? | 15:51 |
| Binky | http://pastebin.ca/1182400 | 15:51 |
| Binky | Yeah, there is | 15:51 |
| pupnik_ | you can diff them to find the error | 15:51 |
| pupnik_ | or at least i did | 15:51 |
| Binky | I backuped status file, but the old is all corrupted... | 15:51 |
| pupnik_ | oh | 15:51 |
| Binky | I don't know how to fix the final newline | 15:52 |
| Binky | Any idea? | 15:54 |
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| pupnik_ | grmbl. no | 15:57 |
| pupnik_ | open the file in vi and add a newline? | 15:57 |
| t_s_o | sorry pupnik_, i missed your question as you didnt trigger my nick recognition. anyways. here is the bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3609 | 15:58 |
| t_s_o | and now, dinner | 15:58 |
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| pupnik_ | merci beaucoups | 16:06 |
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| lcuk | X-Fade, welcome back :D | 16:16 |
| lcuk | don't ever go away again :| | 16:17 |
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| Binky | pupknik_, i already tried that | 16:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | thux, forget gronmayer | 16:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Those repositories, by and large, will screw up your device | 16:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | You need two repositories, Extras and Extras-devel. | 16:55 |
| Raytray | Oh so that advice you gave me way back when sucked. :( | 16:55 |
| Raytray | >.> | 16:56 |
| LinuxCode | a good way to never get help again | 16:56 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, :) i have diablo now, and i made notes about what it took to get gcc on device and building again :) | 16:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Raytray, advice changes over time. | 16:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | What's useful 6 months ago is not the same thing that's useful now. | 16:58 |
| Raytray | Hehe. Give me a sec to blindly wander around looking for the repo list to edit. | 16:58 |
| lcuk | Raytray, there are now established quality control procedures in place which make the maemo experience better if you stick to the default repos | 16:59 |
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| Mek | I don't think any quality control procedures are in place for extras-devel? :P | 16:59 |
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| lcuk | its been made simpler than ever to get your code into maemo and ensure it will be there even when your fly-by-night repo dies | 16:59 |
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| lcuk | THATS why the advice has changed ;) | 17:00 |
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| * pupnik_ coughs politely | 17:01 | |
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| Raytray | Heh, I sound less grouchy next time I'm joking around then. | 17:01 |
| lcuk | its ok, i hadnt realised *why* it was a good idea myself until then | 17:01 |
| Raytray | Though, silly question: How do I build the db for locate? | 17:02 |
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| LinuxCode | updatedb | 17:06 |
| Raytray | Ah thanks. | 17:07 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: If you mean the builder as being "simpler than ever"... | 17:08 |
| * RST38h cackles evilly | 17:08 | |
| lcuk | at least you know once you comeo ut the other side you have a package capable of working | 17:08 |
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| RST38h | [thanks god and Xfade, non-free binary uploads still work though] | 17:09 |
| RST38h | lcuk: capable of compiling, not working ;) | 17:09 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Raytray, alternative answer. I was setting you up for fail. :P | 17:19 |
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| Raytray | :p | 17:20 |
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| Raytray | Are extras and extras dev in gronmayer? | 17:21 |
| Raytray | If so, I'll just have to figure out which one those are and remove the rest. | 17:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~extras | 17:21 |
| infobot | rumour has it, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras | 17:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | FBReader is even in Extras now | 17:21 |
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| LinuxCode | Id love to see amsn in there too | 17:24 |
| LinuxCode | and xchat | 17:24 |
| LinuxCode | ;-} | 17:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | XChat is in Extras-devel | 17:25 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Poke stupid packagers to submit their stuff. | 17:25 |
| RST38h | One more push and we will see it in Extras? | 17:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | "it"? | 17:28 |
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| RST38h | XChat | 17:31 |
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| zap | xchat has too many packages | 17:35 |
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| zap | imho we should think of a way for an alternative packaging of NLS stuff | 17:35 |
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| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, mgedmin is gonna do a few more packaging improvements | 17:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | like culling the million and one localization packages. | 17:37 |
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| zap | Maemo should have something like localepurge | 17:38 |
| zap | any volunteers to write one, with a control panel applet for setup? | 17:38 |
| LinuxCode | yep ..you | 17:38 |
| LinuxCode | I just volunteered you for the position | 17:38 |
| LinuxCode | ;-} | 17:38 |
| zap | I have so much packages to do yet :) | 17:39 |
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| LinuxCode | hehe | 17:41 |
| lbt | oh - Canola is not opensource | 17:44 |
| lbt | I didn't realise | 17:44 |
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| lbt | I'm miffed - it won't scan my nfs mounts so I was trying to get the source to go in and fix it... | 17:46 |
| lbt | just grrr | 17:46 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lbt, lightmediascanner | 17:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's just the front-end and media server that's closed | 17:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | 90% of the bulk of what makes "Canola" is open source. | 17:47 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Blame retarded management. | 17:47 |
| lbt | shame - the fancy front end is worth building on | 17:47 |
| lbt | I was thinking of extending it to do other stuff | 17:47 |
| lbt | <sigh> | 17:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just don't blame the developers. | 17:47 |
| RST38h | zap: AFAIK, you only need one | 17:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | They've contributed more open source stuff to Maemo than just about anybody. | 17:48 |
| RST38h | zap: Others are translations | 17:48 |
| lbt | OK - that's nice to know :) | 17:48 |
| melmoth | i have a piece of code that create a picture that takes time to make with cairo. i would like to compute it on a a separate thread, and give back something to a pygtk drawing area to display. | 17:48 |
| melmoth | any idea what the 'something' format should be ? | 17:48 |
| RST38h | BTW, anybody installed latest Pidgin from Collabora? | 17:48 |
| RST38h | The one that comes with 20+MB of crap? | 17:49 |
| lcuk | melmoth, offscreen bitmap. then blit it onscreen when you are done? | 17:49 |
| melmoth | i m not sure what a offscreen bitmap is. I can have it on a numeri array, but then i do not know how to render it on the gtk drawing area | 17:50 |
| lcuk | a bitmap is an array of pixels representing a rectangular area of visible screen.. | 17:51 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: you here? I want to install deblet. My main system runs diablo via multiboot from the external mmc. I have a spare 2gb partition - what's the best way? :D | 17:51 |
| melmoth | lcuk: i have access to an array represnrting the picture, but then. i m stuck as i have no idea how to use this in the gtk drawarea | 17:53 |
| lcuk | this is not the kind of question that can be answered in irc, read up about gtk drawing areas and how to access and modify the data | 17:54 |
| lcuk | you already know your problem | 17:54 |
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| melmoth | hmmm. | 17:55 |
| RST38h | qWeRtY12 | 17:56 |
| qwerty12 | RsT38h | 17:56 |
| AStorm | RST38h: does your nick refer to the nice DOS call to reset the machine? ;P | 17:57 |
| qwerty12 | ~lart my sister for sleeping for ages and ages and ages and having my charger delivered in her name so I can't open it | 17:57 |
| * infobot DoSes my sister for sleeping for ages and ages and ages and having my charger delivered in her name so I can't open it | 17:57 | |
| RST38h | AStorm: No. | 17:57 |
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| qwerty12 | "F5 RST38H ;- something like a esc-funktion - quit to monitor when ever a keyboard-funtion is called and this key is pressed, then manchine-code 0xff==RST38h will be executed (jumps to address 0x38)" | 17:58 |
| AStorm | Amiga... ouch | 17:58 |
| RST38h | No. | 17:58 |
| RST38h | RST38h is Z80. Also 8080, where it was known as RST7 | 17:59 |
| AStorm | indeed, Z-80 | 17:59 |
| qwerty12 | "EXECUTE TEST: In this test, the entire RAM is written with Z-80 RST38H (0FFH) | 17:59 |
| qwerty12 | instructions. Then a block of machine code is written to the bottom of the test | 17:59 |
| qwerty12 | area and an attempt is made to execute it. If the attempt is successful, the | 17:59 |
| qwerty12 | block is moved up one address and a new attempt is made to execute it. This | 17:59 |
| qwerty12 | continues until all available RAM has been tested. If the Z-80 should encounter | 17:59 |
| qwerty12 | one of the RST38H instructions instead of the expected code, it will jump to | 17:59 |
| qwerty12 | location 38H then branch to a special error-handling routine. While the test is | 17:59 |
| AStorm | whee | 17:59 |
| qwerty12 | running, screen messages will indicate the address of the current test block, | 17:59 |
| qwerty12 | and which loop (0-3) is running." | 17:59 |
| qwerty12 | Shit | 17:59 |
| AStorm | /kb qwerty12 | 17:59 |
| RST38h | It is an interrupt vector, really | 17:59 |
| AStorm | RST38h: sure | 17:59 |
| lbt | he sure types quick... | 17:59 |
| qwerty12 | if only... | 17:59 |
| RST38h | The reason why RST38h was used was because it opcode (0xFF) corresponds to the "floating" bus | 17:59 |
| qwerty12 | ffs, I want to charge my N800 so I can test an initfs binary >.< | 18:00 |
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| RST38h | So you did not need the interrupt controller (8259 or its like) | 18:00 |
| lbt | qwerty12: doesn't a new standard nokia charger work? | 18:01 |
| lcuk | question to all: which optimisations do you use, which appear to give best results? | 18:01 |
| lbt | lcuk: perl | 18:01 |
| lcuk | gcc opts actually ;) | 18:01 |
| qwerty12 | lbt: yeah, I ordered one in my sisters name (too young for a credit card) except its failing as she is still sleeping ! | 18:01 |
| lcuk | qwerty12, is there a chance you have b0rkened it? | 18:02 |
| AStorm | qwerty12: :P | 18:02 |
| AStorm | buy one yourself | 18:02 |
| lbt | they don't sell them for £2 at a local phone shop | 18:02 |
| AStorm | btw, I want AC-5e - the travel charger | 18:02 |
| AStorm | it's tiny and supplies the needed 890 mA | 18:02 |
| lcuk | i have an emergency charger which takes an AA battery | 18:03 |
| AStorm | who made it? | 18:03 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk: I hope not. I messed around a bit (spliced old nokia charger onto new connector) but I tested with another charger and it started up fine | 18:03 |
| AStorm | what's the max current | 18:03 |
| AStorm | qwerty12: yes, it's the same charger | 18:03 |
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| lcuk | i got it from the o2 shop, its o2 branded box | 18:03 |
| AStorm | actually, AC-4e was made in 3 versions - old 5V plug, new Nokia plug, USB plug | 18:04 |
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| AStorm | it's crummy anyway and n8x0 overloads it slightly | 18:04 |
| * qwerty12 wonders what service manuals say regarding charging | 18:05 | |
| * RST38h is all for the old 5V plug btw | 18:05 | |
| qwerty12 | RST38h: same here | 18:05 |
| AStorm | I'm all for another USB port | 18:05 |
| RST38h | qwerty: "Do not use third party chargers" | 18:05 |
| AStorm | :) | 18:05 |
| RST38h | AStrorm: Yes, but micro usb or mini usb? | 18:05 |
| AStorm | RST38h: it's a first-party charger | 18:05 |
| AStorm | RST38h: obviously mini USB | 18:05 |
| RST38h | yep | 18:05 |
| ShadowJK | overloads it slightly? Surely those chargers are built with current-limitators | 18:05 |
| AStorm | as micro USB is nowhere to be found | 18:05 |
| RST38h | micro usb is way too tiny | 18:06 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: which happen to allow for 10% overcurrent | 18:06 |
| AStorm | :> | 18:06 |
| RST38h | afaik, micro usb is the new standard in the industry | 18:06 |
| AStorm | unused yet | 18:06 |
| ShadowJK | I've charged with a 350mA charger :) | 18:06 |
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| AStorm | ShadowJK: I tried that too | 18:06 |
| AStorm | that power control chip inside n810 is very flexible | 18:06 |
| AStorm | it took some current from battery in that case | 18:07 |
| AStorm | (instead of charging) | 18:07 |
| ShadowJK | Energizer's 2*AA emergency charger works splendidly too | 18:07 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: gimme - link? | 18:07 |
| ShadowJK | http://www.techforless.com/cgi-bin/tech4less/CEL2SPR?mv_pc=google_base&tts=20080822020701 | 18:08 |
| ShadowJK | for example | 18:08 |
| ShadowJK | you get loads of results on google | 18:08 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, i wanted a 2 cell version, but all i could find was the single, it slightly annoyed me | 18:08 |
| AStorm | 2x AA Lithium = expensive | 18:08 |
| AStorm | I want 2x NiMH | 18:08 |
| ShadowJK | It works on 2 recently charged nimh too | 18:08 |
| AStorm | blah | 18:09 |
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| AStorm | it'll die due to voltage fall | 18:09 |
| ShadowJK | nah | 18:09 |
| AStorm | sure it will | 18:09 |
| ShadowJK | It cuts off at 1 Volt | 18:09 |
| AStorm | Lithium is constant voltage | 18:09 |
| ShadowJK | per cell | 18:09 |
| AStorm | 1,7V too | 18:09 |
| AStorm | per cell | 18:09 |
| AStorm | NiMH is 1,4V per cell, average | 18:09 |
| ShadowJK | it just wont fire up at less than 1.37 or something | 18:10 |
| Kegetys | 1,2V I thought | 18:10 |
| AStorm | Kegetys: yes | 18:10 |
| AStorm | 1,4V max actually, I failed | 18:10 |
| ShadowJK | "nominal", which in nimh is measured like the median on discharge curve or something... | 18:10 |
| AStorm | so, it's unsuitable for NiMH | 18:10 |
| AStorm | no | 18:10 |
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| AStorm | it's the voltage in the stable state | 18:11 |
| AStorm | not median :) | 18:11 |
| AStorm | median would be higher | 18:11 |
| t_s_o | sometimes i just have to take my hat of for GeneralAntilles... | 18:11 |
| ShadowJK | I've found 2xAA elsewhere, some that even run down your batteries squeezing everything out of them (bad for nimh), but none that put out as much current as teh energizer | 18:11 |
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| ShadowJK | But that energizer charger, if it just fires up it runs until 2V, which should eat atleast 75% of the energy in nimh cells | 18:13 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: well are you going to use my bootmenu patches? | 18:14 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: ok, the real question is: where can I get these nice Maxims I found at quantity | 18:14 |
| ShadowJK | nice maxims? :) | 18:14 |
| AStorm | ALL places that had them disappeared or are out of stock | 18:14 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: MAX17xx family | 18:15 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: easiest way is really just getting the .install files from http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/trunk/deblet-diablo.install | 18:15 |
| AStorm | http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:l33YZ4S5T7IJ:www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/maxim/MAX1763.pdf+Maxim+MAX1763&hl=pl&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=pl&client=firefox-a | 18:15 |
| AStorm | this is the one | 18:15 |
| qwerty12 | lmao, I think maxim as in magazine.... | 18:15 |
| AStorm | qwerty12: no no, the microchip producer | 18:15 |
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| qwerty12 | yeah, just joking :) | 18:16 |
| AStorm | http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/2356 - better link | 18:16 |
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| AStorm | tell me where can I get these in 10s | 18:17 |
| AStorm | not 1000s | 18:17 |
| usicow | Is anyone familiar with problems with Android on OS 2008? I installed it as per http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21495 but when I click on the Android icon in extras I see the CPU spike for a while but nothing happens. | 18:17 |
| ShadowJK | I've run into availability problems everytime I've had the idea of building my own, too :) | 18:18 |
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| AStorm | ShadowJK: I scrapped *one* such chip from an old cell-phone | 18:18 |
| ShadowJK | in the end I just disassembled a generic cigarette plug charger and made it run on 8 nimh | 18:19 |
| AStorm | 8 NiMH is huge | 18:21 |
| AStorm | I'd rather build a large Li-Poly battery in that case | 18:21 |
| AStorm | I'm thinking like 2x NiMH | 18:21 |
| AStorm | ah, I see | 18:21 |
| ShadowJK | get 2 1-cell and tape them together? :) | 18:21 |
| AStorm | Maxim phased these nice family of chips out | 18:21 |
| AStorm | now MAX170xx is the rage | 18:22 |
| AStorm | but it has a bit too small range | 18:22 |
| t_s_o | on topic of small chargers: http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/20080726/duracell-offers-pocket-sized-chargers/ | 18:22 |
| AStorm | MAX17067 | 18:22 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: i'm rewriting installation guide right now to match the new way | 18:23 |
| * ShadowJK finds max 1771 available in scandinavia | 18:23 | |
| qwerty12 | If someone wants to test something for me, grab this http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/initfs-test, chmod +x it and remount initfs rw and shove that binary and then chroot to /mnt/initfs and tell me if initfs-test runs from the initfs please. Thank you. | 18:23 |
| * qwerty12 would do it but I'm chargerless! The binary is harmless, just displays a message | 18:24 | |
| AStorm | *bit too small input range that is | 18:24 |
| AStorm | t_s_o: it's Li-Ion based | 18:24 |
| AStorm | which means I can't grab batteries anywhere ;P | 18:25 |
| t_s_o | one of them are, the other can take two AA's | 18:25 |
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| t_s_o | specifically the pocket charger | 18:25 |
| AStorm | ahhh... | 18:26 |
| AStorm | it's made by Xantrex | 18:26 |
| AStorm | it must be good | 18:26 |
| AStorm | Maximum charging current 0.5 A - too low | 18:27 |
| t_s_o | but iirc, nokia have a combo device thats called DC-8 or something like that. it can take batteries, but also have a built in li-ion cell | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: cp to /mnt/initfs/tmp would do the trick too | 18:27 |
| AStorm | t_s_o: that's 4x AA | 18:27 |
| t_s_o | ok | 18:27 |
| t_s_o | 0.5 to low? | 18:27 |
| AStorm | n8x0 needs 1A to run well | 18:27 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: Ah yes, /tmp > /mnt/initfs/tmp. I wonder how that remains rw :> | 18:27 |
| AStorm | 0.5A is too low for the device to run | 18:27 |
| ShadowJK | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11867 | 18:27 |
| AStorm | barely enough to sustain base power use at 300 mA | 18:28 |
| ShadowJK | hm | 18:28 |
| AStorm | add MMC and you get 500 mA | 18:28 |
| t_s_o | seems to work fine of the usb here, and the usb max out at 0.5 | 18:28 |
| qwerty12 | But I want to see if that binary runs, then it means the toolchain is working and I can get to compiling mtd-tools for initfs | 18:28 |
| AStorm | t_s_o: it does work, but won't charge unless idle | 18:28 |
| AStorm | been there, done that | 18:28 |
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| t_s_o | heh, may explain a bit :P | 18:28 |
| ShadowJK | With screen off and sitting on my desk, connected to wlan, my N810 seems to last a few days on battery? | 18:28 |
| ShadowJK | ah right | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | with proper WMM in wifi router? | 18:28 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 18:29 |
| t_s_o | also makes me wonder if me buying a philips power2charge was a stupid move... | 18:29 |
| ShadowJK | AStorm, ah right, you want to run full power constantly :) | 18:29 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: not really, but you need like 750 mA to charge comfortably | 18:29 |
| AStorm | and 1A to charge quickly | 18:29 |
| AStorm | as in full stress, n810 can eat 800 mA | 18:29 |
| AStorm | guess why the battery runtime is 4,5h - 5h | 18:30 |
| AStorm | :> | 18:30 |
| lcuk | om nom nom nom! | 18:30 |
| RST38h | "one particular marijuana farmer had to be mighty embarrassed / wondering what he ever did to deserve such bad luck when a GPS-equipped turtle meandered into his crop." | 18:30 |
| lcuk | it was only a few plants | 18:30 |
| RST38h | yea, that was what he said in the court =) | 18:31 |
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| qwerty12 | shit, that means my invention is working | 18:31 |
| lcuk | and one stoned turtle | 18:31 |
| ShadowJK | I wonder if you can connect several of those battery-powered chargers in parallell, or if they interfere with eachother | 18:31 |
| AStorm | lcuk: hahaha | 18:31 |
| AStorm | it doesn't stone turtles | 18:31 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: well, you could, through a diode for safety | 18:31 |
| * qwerty12 remembers stoned cheetah in harold and kumar | 18:31 | |
| RST38h | Battery is 1.5Ah, so at 800mA it will be about 2 hours | 18:32 |
| RST38h | Not 6 | 18:32 |
| RST38h | that is assuming running voltage of 3.7v | 18:32 |
| AStorm | it's not :) | 18:32 |
| AStorm | it's running on various voltages | 18:32 |
| AStorm | so, the aggregate would be like 500 mA | 18:32 |
| RST38h | 500mA at 3.7V? | 18:33 |
| AStorm | yes | 18:33 |
| RST38h | 3 hours | 18:33 |
| AStorm | yes | 18:33 |
| AStorm | which is actually correct | 18:33 |
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| RST38h | Actually, it pretty much corresponds to the minimal running time battery applet reports | 18:33 |
| AStorm | but you'd have to blast both MMC and full CPU | 18:33 |
| RST38h | mplayer to the rescue! =) | 18:33 |
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| AStorm | *both* MMC :> | 18:33 |
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| AStorm | and put something on USB port | 18:33 |
| AStorm | also run wifi and BT | 18:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Harold and Kumar was a great flick | 18:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | That guy still cracks me up in House. | 18:34 |
| qwerty12 | HOLY SHIT! My sister actually got up :O. Charger is mine.... | 18:36 |
| AStorm | RST38h: I want more of that Menelaus chip | 18:36 |
| AStorm | it's pure gold ;) | 18:36 |
| qwerty12 | AStorm: Hit me up, I've got N810 service manuals and schematics | 18:36 |
| AStorm | qwerty12: I do know where to chip in ;P | 18:37 |
| qwerty12 | Heh :) | 18:37 |
| AStorm | one hack I want to do some time is connecting USB port with the power in | 18:37 |
| qwerty12 | I need to see if my initfs binary works... | 18:37 |
| AStorm | and adding a bit of soft to negotiate 500 mA | 18:38 |
| AStorm | bonus if I can make it work both ways and have a powered USB port in that case | 18:38 |
| AStorm | :> | 18:38 |
| RST38h | AStorm: mencoder transcoding from one mmc to the other! | 18:39 |
| AStorm | RST38h: still add wifi and BT | 18:39 |
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| AStorm | and something on USB | 18:39 |
| AStorm | ok: playing music from NFS drive over wifi in the background | 18:41 |
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| AStorm | wrong | 18:42 |
| AStorm | s/NFS drive/BT cell phone/ | 18:42 |
| AStorm | and making network available to that phone over wifi | 18:42 |
| AStorm | that leaves only USB | 18:43 |
| AStorm | ah | 18:43 |
| AStorm | n810 is connected to the internet over USB ;P | 18:43 |
| t_s_o | how low can one go and still have the N800 charge while idle? | 18:43 |
| AStorm | t_s_o: 400 mA is my bet | 18:43 |
| AStorm | 350 mA charger barely charged it | 18:44 |
| t_s_o | hmm, no wonder my recently bought power2charge from philips seems to not really like my N800... | 18:44 |
| t_s_o | well i guess it can still work in a pinch... | 18:45 |
| AStorm | 450 mA charger had no problem charging it in idle | 18:45 |
| * ShadowJK starts charging in idle | 18:45 | |
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| AStorm | 350 mA one caused battery drain in stress | 18:46 |
| t_s_o | well this thing is really rated for 350, but have 450 as a upper safety margin... | 18:46 |
| ShadowJK | 42% when I started, according to battery-status :) | 18:46 |
| AStorm | t_s_o: so it'll explode when n810 tries to pull >450 mA from it ;P | 18:46 |
| AStorm | unless it has some nice safety circuit | 18:46 |
| * AStorm still wants those MAX1763 - they look perfect | 18:47 | |
| AStorm | or some analog | 18:47 |
| t_s_o | knowing philips its some kind of safety in there, as the indicator light was blinking on and of while i tested it | 18:47 |
| AStorm | yes, overcurrent shutdown | 18:47 |
| t_s_o | but when i tested it again today, that didnt happen... | 18:47 |
| lcuk | is there anything which can view the profiling data produced by gcc? | 18:47 |
| AStorm | n810 is smart and adjusts current | 18:47 |
| AStorm | lcuk: it's called gprof | 18:47 |
| lcuk | thanks :) | 18:48 |
| t_s_o | maybe | 18:48 |
| AStorm | t_s_o: not maybe, certainly | 18:48 |
| AStorm | it uses something like exponential backoff | 18:48 |
| AStorm | ;P | 18:48 |
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| t_s_o | dont tell me much | 18:48 |
| AStorm | as I said, Menelaus is an excellent design | 18:48 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: i've updated installation instructions on trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet to fit the new installer | 18:48 |
| ShadowJK | all nokia devices seem to have a phase in the charging where it pulses the charging current, so that makes indicator lights blink on some chargers | 18:48 |
| t_s_o | my guess from recent experience, that happens close to full battery on the N800 | 18:49 |
| ShadowJK | yeah | 18:49 |
| AStorm | yes | 18:50 |
| t_s_o | and that may explain why the p2c was blinking last night | 18:50 |
| AStorm | pulse charging of Li-Poly | 18:50 |
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| AStorm | the constant-voltage phase | 18:50 |
| AStorm | there's probably a "huge" cap it's charging to keep voltage constant | 18:50 |
| t_s_o | i was just thinking like so "N800 has the same charger port as a N-series phone, and the p2c supports N-series phones. i guess they should work" | 18:51 |
| t_s_o | the big annoying thing for me was that i could not find any input voltage data for the N800... | 18:53 |
| ShadowJK | My E70 consumes more power than my N810 :) | 18:53 |
| AStorm | t_s_o: input voltage is 5V | 18:53 |
| ShadowJK | Because I use it as modem and that eats lots :) | 18:53 |
| AStorm | max 5,5V | 18:53 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: E70 sure is power hungry, yes | 18:54 |
| ShadowJK | I had 6820 before, it ate even more power doing the same | 18:54 |
| AStorm | huh wha? | 18:54 |
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| AStorm | how did you measure? | 18:54 |
| ShadowJK | the 6820 battery fits in E70, runtime is longer in E70 ;) | 18:55 |
| ShadowJK | It's not surprising really, if you consider the USB 3G modem dongles come with usb Y cables in case your motherboard doesn't supply more than 500mA per port :) | 18:56 |
| t_s_o | cant say i have seen many dongles do that... | 18:56 |
| ShadowJK | well they're all >500mA iirc | 18:57 |
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| qwerty12 | WTF is up with my N800, I shove the charger in and it hangs on White nokia logo and goes off. Charger works in N80 and N73. | 18:58 |
| qwerty12 | Oh, just my luck, the new charger is fucked up. | 18:59 |
| t_s_o | :S | 18:59 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: ok - been looking at that and insatlling the bootmenu.deb | 18:59 |
| qwerty12 | ~lart nokia's anal-retentive shitty charger | 18:59 |
| * infobot squishes nokia's anal-retentive shitty charger like a bug | 18:59 | |
| RST38h | ANNOUNCEMENT: SlideRule 1.0 now officially available from http://fms.komkon.org/SlideRule/ | 19:01 |
| RST38h | [.deb uploaded to Extras and awaiting XFade's approval, product page coming up as soon as there is a .deb in Extras] | 19:02 |
| *** qwerty12 is now known as qwerty12_ | 19:02 | |
| t_s_o | guess ill stay of the deb on the page then | 19:03 |
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| RST38h | [in unrelated news, ASUS is releasing scented laptops] | 19:03 |
| RST38h | t_s_o: it will be the same .deb, so you should be ok | 19:03 |
| t_s_o | yay, smelly laptops. thats new ;) | 19:03 |
| ShadowJK | i thought they all smeled | 19:03 |
| t_s_o | RST38h: yep, but app manager and updating off extra after a direct install dont really mix | 19:04 |
| *** fab__ is now known as fab | 19:04 | |
| t_s_o | ShadowJK: they do when the battery pops ;) | 19:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | t_s_o, that should work fine. | 19:04 |
| ShadowJK | mostly of plastic and paint | 19:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's repository -> .deb upgrade that's problematic. | 19:04 |
| t_s_o | well i had some funny errors when updating to a repo package after using one of .deb earlier | 19:05 |
| RST38h | t_s_o: they do for me, as long as it is the same package | 19:05 |
| t_s_o | app manager was giving me a weird error and apt-get needed med to say yes to installing it as it was not certified or something | 19:06 |
| RST38h | yea, it would happen if the paclage you installed from the deb could not be identified as a previous version of the repo package | 19:06 |
| *** qwerty12_ is now known as qwerty12 | 19:07 | |
| t_s_o | then how did app manager see a update in the first place? *confused* | 19:07 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: you mentioned I needed some funky sudo package IIRC - did it go in as a dependency? I have to run install_bootmenu from a ssh session :) | 19:09 |
| qwerty12 | Packages from a repo are always prioritised over debs installed locally even with the same version number. Retarded behaviour but... | 19:09 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: yeah, rootsh should go in automatically | 19:11 |
| Stskeeps | if you use .install | 19:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Eh, probably worthwhile for nubs | 19:11 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: my "newest" installation guide doesnt mention bootmenu.deb though :P | 19:11 |
| lbt | no - I did that earlier for fun | 19:12 |
| t_s_o | hey RST38h, how about using the back key as the C key? | 19:12 |
| lbt | I'm running the installer now - it was fine | 19:12 |
| lbt | I need to specify a local apt-cacher url so doing that... | 19:12 |
| Stskeeps | k, should be possible in the "<click here to edit>" | 19:13 |
| lbt | yep | 19:13 |
| lbt | can't remember my port... looking | 19:13 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: just verify you use my latest bootmenu.deb from dependancies/bootmenu as i changed some stuff lately to fix some bugs in the bootmenu.conf | 19:13 |
| lbt | hah | 19:16 |
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| Stskeeps | i know now more about sh quirkiness than i want to know | 19:16 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:16 |
| lbt | it looks like I used the old bootmenu - I setup an /etc/bootmenu.d | 19:16 |
| *** gomiam has joined #maemo | 19:16 | |
| lbt | and during the reboot it seemed to work | 19:16 |
| lbt | however it took a while and I got worrie | 19:17 |
| lbt | d | 19:17 |
| lbt | then it booted | 19:17 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, it takes a bit due to journal | 19:17 |
| lbt | and *now* I realise it was failing to boot my mmc | 19:17 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 19:17 |
| lbt | it silently resorted to flash | 19:17 |
| lbt | so I'm not in the distro I thought I was.... oops | 19:17 |
| Stskeeps | well, i think i've ironed out the bugs in my stuff now as i havent made it break with two installations :P | 19:18 |
| lbt | I prefer my linuxrc that cycles the menu until you select a menu item that boots | 19:18 |
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| lbt | granted my system is now a bit odd | 19:18 |
| Stskeeps | *nod* | 19:18 |
| Stskeeps | i should have some more checks for existence of linuxrc and such in my bootmenu.sh prolly | 19:18 |
| Stskeeps | .. i have marks after my ways of popping the battery on the battery :( | 19:19 |
| lbt | <grin> | 19:19 |
| lbt | bootmenu needs an overhaul | 19:19 |
| AStorm | Stskeeps: no, you lose to me | 19:19 |
| AStorm | I almost killed the battery ;> | 19:19 |
| * qwerty12 just used a knife, eventually it loosened enough so I just have to use fingernails now | 19:19 | |
| AStorm | lbt: yes, it needs more modularity | 19:19 |
| lbt | AStorm: Stskeeps started with a bootmenu.d/ | 19:20 |
| AStorm | maemo init system needs an overhaul too | 19:20 |
| lbt | yes - but my bug on that is WONTFIX | 19:20 |
| lbt | since there's a new one on the way | 19:20 |
| lbt | I'd like to get an early preview so we can make it more open | 19:21 |
| lbt | and modular | 19:21 |
| AStorm | whee | 19:21 |
| AStorm | I suggest Gentoo init | 19:21 |
| AStorm | ;P | 19:21 |
| lbt | uhuh | 19:21 |
| * qwerty12 used upstart, speed of booting was great, would hang on shutdown | 19:21 | |
| AStorm | upstart is very tricky to code for | 19:21 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: diablo messing up initfs at flash just makes me sure that there should be a install bootmenu icon :P | 19:22 |
| Stskeeps | cos so many people run into it | 19:22 |
| liri | is there a program which displays a large dial pad for dialing numbers and connects to a cellphone using bluetooth to actually dial it? | 19:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, you going to the Summit? | 19:23 |
| qwerty12 | Now I know why they use uclibc, http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/Screenshot.png ... | 19:23 |
| liri | I installed PhoneLink, thinking that it's what I want and it is in terms of functionality but it doesn't have the large numeric dialpad | 19:23 |
| lbt | GeneralAntilles: no, not this time | 19:23 |
| lbt | when is it? | 19:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, it'd be a good time to discuss Fremantle stuff. ;) | 19:23 |
| lbt | 's true | 19:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | September 19th and 20th | 19:24 |
| Stskeeps | i should show up drunk and with a vodka bottle | 19:24 |
| AStorm | qwerty12: they should've used statically-linked uclibc | 19:24 |
| AStorm | not dynamically linked uclibc | 19:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps and with a 770 | 19:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | crying about dropped support. | 19:24 |
| Stskeeps | did 770 have two slots btw? | 19:25 |
| qwerty12 | AStorm: Yeah, first binary is dynamically linked to uclibc and is the smallest naturally but won't run in initfs, the second binary is 31KB and statically linked to uclibc which runs and is a decent size but then, the same binary statically linked to glibc is 532 KB! | 19:25 |
| * qwerty12 gets to statically compiling mtd-tools against uclibc | 19:27 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, just one RS-MMC. | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | ah, sucks | 19:27 |
| AStorm | qwerty12: glibc is a hog | 19:27 |
| AStorm | linking statically against glibc is totally pointless | 19:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | The N800 is a big step up over the 770. | 19:27 |
| qwerty12 | AStorm: For sure. This is just a tiny 174 byte c file that displays 2 lines on the screen and I get a 532KB binary :/ | 19:28 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: is it stripped too? | 19:29 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: Not stripped | 19:29 |
| qwerty12 | But good idea, I should get into the habit of doing that | 19:29 |
| AStorm | yeah, stripping will axe a bit of file size | 19:29 |
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| * qwerty12 wants to shove a quick menu on fanoush's bootmenu that will use mtd-tools to dump mtdblock4 to my mmc which I can then restore at my disposal | 19:30 | |
| Stskeeps | i'd still say a .img file could do the trick if there's not enough space or whatever | 19:32 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:32 |
| qwerty12 | It's not about space reasons, I just want a proper backup thing, one that will restore everything as it was before | 19:33 |
| Stskeeps | *nod* | 19:34 |
| qwerty12 | Yep, strip's made it go from 31.4KB to 19.9KB, thanks | 19:34 |
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| RST38h | t_s_o: What back key? | 19:49 |
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| RST38h | case 0x08: | 19:50 |
| RST38h | Roll.In(0x08); | 19:50 |
| RST38h | break; | 19:50 |
| RST38h | This back key? | 19:50 |
| t_s_o | err, back/esc the one that shows a arrow on the N800 | 19:52 |
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| t_s_o | hmm, never mind. i see now that its used to get out of the F menus... | 19:53 |
| RST38h | That key us ESC | 19:54 |
| RST38h | s/us/is/ | 19:54 |
| infobot | RST38h meant: That key is ESC | 19:54 |
| t_s_o | ok | 19:54 |
| RST38h | Kinda dangerous to use it for BS as it has other meanings | 19:54 |
| t_s_o | it works as a kind of back button in the browser so... | 19:54 |
| AStorm | that's a hack, yes ;) | 19:55 |
| t_s_o | guess so | 19:55 |
| RST38h | ~lart Nokia for using GDK_Fx key codes for hardware keys | 19:55 |
| * infobot explains, ever so gently, that if Nokia for using GDK_Fx key codes doesn't give the channel more information, they can't help for hardware keys | 19:55 | |
| RST38h | mhm | 19:56 |
| AStorm | uh wtf? | 19:56 |
| t_s_o | :S | 19:56 |
| AStorm | was that English? | 19:56 |
| t_s_o | anyways, now im torn between sliderule and mathjinni... | 19:57 |
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| AStorm | I want qalculate for maemo | 19:57 |
| AStorm | someone should build it | 19:57 |
| AStorm | it's much better and easier to use than that HP42 calc | 19:58 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: did you use my .install for diablo btw? did it install without hassle? | 19:58 |
| RST38h | I think it was a bug | 19:58 |
| AStorm | btw, anyone managed to get a HSDPA/GSM modem working with n8x0? | 19:59 |
| lbt | not quite | 19:59 |
| lbt | trying again now | 19:59 |
| lbt | (got sidetracked with a debian nfs-common bug on my wife's box...) | 20:00 |
| RST38h | AStorm: harass qwerty12 or pupnik, ask them to port | 20:00 |
| AStorm | RST38h: no port needed, just a build | 20:00 |
| RST38h | or build | 20:00 |
| AStorm | it's a gtk calculator after all :> | 20:00 |
| RST38h | although I highly doubt that it will work well without hildonization | 20:00 |
| AStorm | why not? | 20:00 |
| RST38h | will not look native | 20:00 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: k | 20:00 |
| AStorm | it uses the standard gtk textbox with ownerdrawing of a bit of text | 20:00 |
| RST38h | but it shouldn't be a lot of a problem anyway | 20:01 |
| AStorm | s/textbox/combobox/ | 20:01 |
| infobot | AStorm meant: it uses the standard gtk combobox with ownerdrawing of a bit of text | 20:01 |
| RST38h | AStorm: That is especially scary, considering that Hildon may have added a few changes to the standard combobox ;) | 20:02 |
| AStorm | well, this minor ownerdraw should work | 20:02 |
| AStorm | as it's done correctly | 20:03 |
| RST38h | may get laid out differently | 20:03 |
| RST38h | but yes, ownerdraw will still work | 20:03 |
| AStorm | nah, it's just right aligned | 20:03 |
| AStorm | btw, try to ignore qalculate's website | 20:03 |
| AStorm | it's horrible ;P | 20:03 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: I guess I made a typo in the url line again ... | 20:04 |
| lbt | where is the list kept? | 20:04 |
| AStorm | hmm, it might need a bit of hildonization for the popup list of units/functions | 20:04 |
| lbt | got it /usr/share/deblet/debian_mirrors.lst | 20:05 |
| RST38h | it has got multiple windows | 20:07 |
| lbt | bootstrapping | 20:07 |
| RST38h | and gnuplot integration | 20:08 |
| RST38h | i.e. one will have to hildonize its windows and probably port/hildonize gnuplot too | 20:08 |
| AStorm | RST38h: well, multiple windows are not important too much | 20:08 |
| AStorm | menu will have to be cut down a bit most likely | 20:09 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: so you installed with the .install (did the installation of the installer program work)? | 20:16 |
| lbt | yes | 20:16 |
| lbt | I don't think there were any real problems | 20:16 |
| Stskeeps | oki | 20:16 |
| Stskeeps | sounds good | 20:16 |
| lbt | It didn't do very well supporting my existing multiboot | 20:17 |
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| Stskeeps | prolly not | 20:17 |
| lbt | (but thats not a deblet issue) | 20:17 |
| lbt | I made some notes on that - my main one is "give me a shell to edit bootmenu.d and other things like partition device nodes" | 20:17 |
| Stskeeps | for initfs i guess | 20:18 |
| lbt | yes | 20:18 |
| lbt | then at least I could have tried to reboot | 20:18 |
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| lbt | into my mmcp2 rootfs | 20:18 |
| Stskeeps | my next issue to solve is the Dreaded Fsck Bug.. for some fucked up reason, if you have a ext2/3 fs, if you pop battery in deblet, and try to boot up deblet, fsck refuses to run because of "Device or resource busy" | 20:18 |
| Stskeeps | without any open files to claim why this might be the case | 20:18 |
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| Stskeeps | that's my biggest bug before an actual release | 20:19 |
| lbt | ok | 20:19 |
| lbt | well it'll be a while - it's pulling 'apt' right now... | 20:19 |
| Stskeeps | yeah.. | 20:19 |
| Stskeeps | i ran two installations today to test | 20:20 |
| Stskeeps | one into a file, one into partition | 20:20 |
| lbt | oh yes, I noticed it tried to unmount all the partitions | 20:20 |
| lbt | glad rootfs wasn't there :) | 20:20 |
| Stskeeps | it cant umount rootfs anyway, so | 20:20 |
| lbt | I think there may be some script re-ordering needed - not syre | 20:20 |
| Stskeeps | partioner refuses to work if theres a mounted partition, so | 20:21 |
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| lbt | I also found the list of partitions (/proc/partitions?) less than helpful.. cfdisk -P | 20:22 |
| Stskeeps | best way to represent i could find :P | 20:23 |
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| Stskeeps | it could probably be more wide | 20:24 |
| zap | you can use fdisk -l | 20:24 |
| Stskeeps | no such thing on normal maemo.. | 20:25 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:25 |
| zap | indeed | 20:25 |
| Stskeeps | okay, maybe sfdisk -l would be better.. | 20:25 |
| lbt | cfdisk -P s /dev/mmcblk0 | 20:25 |
| lbt | that's busybox cfdisk IIRC | 20:25 |
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| Stskeeps | busybox in maemo doesnt have cfdisk | 20:26 |
| Stskeeps | cfdisk you have is from my repo :P | 20:26 |
| lbt | gotcha | 20:26 |
| Stskeeps | cfdisk -P s is what you see in the dialog | 20:27 |
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| * Stskeeps alters and commits | 20:27 | |
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| ShadowJK | hah, two hours of charging at max 350mA and battery-status says charge level has dropped .4% :-) | 20:46 |
| AStorm | I told you ;P | 20:46 |
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| ShadowJK | I think the N810 isn't eating full 350 though, because the charger isn't getting warm | 20:51 |
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| ShadowJK | :P | 20:51 |
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| AStorm | it is | 20:52 |
| AStorm | the charger shouldn't get warm ever | 20:53 |
| AStorm | it's just a few watts | 20:53 |
| AStorm | 350 mA * 5V = x W | 20:53 |
| AStorm | a bit below 2 W | 20:53 |
| AStorm | let's now suppose 80% efficiency | 20:53 |
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| AStorm | that is just 0.35W to be dissipated | 20:54 |
| AStorm | this isn't anywhere near enough to get warm | 20:54 |
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| ShadowJK | since it's a battery-powered charger, it should've actually have run down the batter some time ago :) | 21:05 |
| ShadowJK | if it was outputting 350mA | 21:05 |
| johnx | nah, if I follow correctly 350mA is what it's dissipating as heat | 21:07 |
| johnx | my assumption is, is that it's not 80% efficient | 21:07 |
| Stskeeps | 'lo johnx | 21:07 |
| johnx | hey Stskeeps | 21:07 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i have scary hack making .img files bootable and installer debootstrapping into it :> | 21:07 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, what's scary about it? just mounting loopback right? | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | you'd think so. except initfs busybox doesn't do loopback | 21:08 |
| johnx | busybox mount? | 21:08 |
| johnx | hmm...that's a PITA | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | so i had to compile newest busybox with only mount in it, use a scary combination of not mounting vfat noexec and running busybox_mount from the mmc, and mount -o remount,noexec later :P | 21:09 |
| Stskeeps | it works, though | 21:09 |
| johnx | you're right. that's kinda scary | 21:09 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: how large are the batteries? | 21:10 |
| AStorm | johnx: 0.35 W = 350 mW is dissipated as heat | 21:11 |
| AStorm | if it's 80% efficient | 21:11 |
| ShadowJK | 1500mAh AA nimh ;) | 21:11 |
| AStorm | it's more likely that it's over 90% efficient | 21:11 |
| johnx | AStorm, I kinda assume it's not | 21:11 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: well, then it's good for some hours | 21:11 |
| AStorm | I suspect like, 8h | 21:11 |
| AStorm | johnx: it doesn't get warm :> | 21:11 |
| ShadowJK | eh | 21:11 |
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| johnx | AStorm, ah, nevermind then. I misread I guess... | 21:11 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: I lied | 21:12 |
| AStorm | more like 4h | 21:12 |
| AStorm | unless the step up is 90% efficient at 1.2V -> 5V | 21:13 |
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| AStorm | which is unlikely | 21:13 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: but it gives funny abilities like dual-booting between maemo (and using chroot) and deblet, so you share settings and such | 21:13 |
| ShadowJK | 1.2V * 1.5Ah = 1.8 Watthours, 5 Volts * .35 A = 1.75Watt.. should last slightly more than an hour if 100% efficient? | 21:13 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: and this without repartitioning | 21:13 |
| AStorm | huh what? | 21:13 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: sorry, it's 1500 mAh | 21:13 |
| AStorm | you get 90% of that | 21:13 |
| AStorm | and you're pulling 350 mA | 21:14 |
| AStorm | 1500 * 0.9 / 350 = hours | 21:14 |
| ShadowJK | You don't get 1500mAh at 5Volts out of a 1.2V 1500mAh battery | 21:14 |
| AStorm | yes, but you're running two, righT? | 21:14 |
| AStorm | >>> 1500 * 0.9 / 350 | 21:14 |
| AStorm | 3.8571428571428572 | 21:14 |
| ShadowJK | oh this one takes one :P | 21:14 |
| AStorm | ah, so it's probably like 80% efficient then | 21:15 |
| AStorm | that gives 3.5h | 21:15 |
| ShadowJK | You have to account for the voltage differene | 21:15 |
| AStorm | ... | 21:15 |
| AStorm | 80% efficiency means you get 80% of power | 21:15 |
| ShadowJK | A isn't power | 21:15 |
| AStorm | the 20% are wasted | 21:15 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: it is, if multiplied by 1h | 21:15 |
| AStorm | ;P | 21:15 |
| AStorm | actually, it's work then | 21:16 |
| AStorm | we want time to run down | 21:16 |
| AStorm | so you get capacity in Ah * efficiency / (current * time) | 21:16 |
| AStorm | assuming it's pulling 350 mA, that means it uses 350mAh in an hour | 21:16 |
| ShadowJK | In that case you must measure current from the AA battery, not current into the N8x0 | 21:17 |
| AStorm | no | 21:17 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 21:17 |
| AStorm | efficiency takes care of that | 21:17 |
| AStorm | :) | 21:17 |
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| AStorm | efficiency = conversion efficiency | 21:17 |
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| AStorm | so, n810 sees that much capacity actually, taking into account all conversion losses | 21:18 |
| ShadowJK | There's no circuit in the world that will take 1.5 volt at .35/.8 A and output 5V at .35A | 21:18 |
| AStorm | sure, there is | 21:18 |
| ShadowJK | No there isn't | 21:18 |
| AStorm | it's called a step-up DC/DC converter | 21:18 |
| AStorm | uhm, wait | 21:18 |
| AStorm | it will take more current, yes | 21:18 |
| AStorm | but you don't care | 21:18 |
| AStorm | as efficiency takes that into consideration | 21:19 |
| ShadowJK | The basic principle is that input watts is same as output watts, minus efficiency losses | 21:19 |
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| AStorm | efficiency means how much mA you will get of 1 A pulled from the battery | 21:19 |
| AStorm | yes | 21:19 |
| AStorm | as voltage is set | 21:19 |
| AStorm | time is also same | 21:20 |
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| AStorm | it's pulling like 450 mA from the battery | 21:20 |
| ShadowJK | So 5Volts out at .35A, that's 1.75Watt. At an input voltage of 1.2 Volt, you will need 1.75W / 1.2V = 1.46 Amps, assuming 100% efficient conversion. At 80% efficienct that becomes about 1.82 Amps | 21:21 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: odd question.. did beta3 do fscks or not? | 21:21 |
| AStorm | yes, I fail | 21:21 |
| ShadowJK | P = U * I and so on | 21:22 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: NiMH for low-current would fail already | 21:22 |
| AStorm | unless the 350mA is bursty load | 21:22 |
| ShadowJK | nimh can supply plenty of amps though :) | 21:22 |
| AStorm | not NiMH of low capacity | 21:23 |
| AStorm | they're designed for low-drain applications | 21:23 |
| AStorm | high capacity NiMH are another story | 21:23 |
| AStorm | they survive short-circuit over low resistance even ;P | 21:23 |
| ShadowJK | Nimh designed for high currents are usually lower in capacity, and high capacity nimh are usually weaker at supplying amps... | 21:23 |
| AStorm | the other way around | 21:24 |
| AStorm | guess why high-capacity NiMH are used for flash lamps | 21:24 |
| ShadowJK | Let me smack you with some graphs | 21:24 |
| AStorm | sure | 21:24 |
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| AStorm | let me smack you with Duracell's info | 21:24 |
| RST38h | weird, at some point modest stopped checking for email | 21:25 |
| AStorm | RST38h: crashed maybe? | 21:25 |
| AStorm | it's timestamp got corrupted? | 21:25 |
| RST38h | nope | 21:26 |
| RST38h | still there but not checking | 21:26 |
| RST38h | no idea | 21:26 |
| ShadowJK | http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/SilverFoxCPF/AccuPowerAA2900atVariousRates.gif | 21:26 |
| ShadowJK | http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/SilverFoxCPF/Titanium1800atVariousRates.gif | 21:26 |
| * RST38h wonders if nokia will ever get mail app working right | 21:26 | |
| RST38h | 'cause the current situation is slowly moving from "annoying" into "bizarre" | 21:27 |
| ShadowJK | The titanium 1800mAh voltage at 15 Amps is better than the 2900mAh cell at 7 Amps... go figure :) | 21:27 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: apples, oranges? | 21:27 |
| kkrusty | has anyone tried that freezer trick with their n810? | 21:27 |
| RST38h | why? | 21:28 |
| ShadowJK | Apples and apples, titanium 2700mAh: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/SilverFoxCPF/TitaniumAA2700atVariousRates.gif | 21:28 |
| AStorm | intriguind | 21:29 |
| AStorm | they write something entirely different on packaging | 21:29 |
| AStorm | lies? | 21:29 |
| ShadowJK | You mean capacity? Yes, almost all manufacturers lie | 21:29 |
| AStorm | no, I mean "applications" of the battery | 21:29 |
| AStorm | where high-capacity is said to be designed for high current drain | 21:30 |
| johnx | RST38h, yeah, I ran into the same thing with email. I thought I was just suddenly unpopular. :/ | 21:30 |
| ShadowJK | AStorm, well, it's entirely possible that their low-capacity cells were actually MEANT to be high capacity cells, but had quality problems during manufacturing, so they're kinda crap and get labeled as low capacity lower drain | 21:30 |
| ShadowJK | But 1-2Amp for any AA nimh is pretty low drain anyway, relatively | 21:31 |
| AStorm | possible, yes | 21:31 |
| AStorm | yes | 21:31 |
| RST38h | johnx: Is there a bug report or should we file one? | 21:31 |
| johnx | RST38h, I really don't know | 21:32 |
| johnx | I've been really busy IRL recently. Haven't done much with my tablet besides actually use it :) | 21:32 |
| AStorm | still, I need a bunch of good DC/DC converters, 1.2V/2.4V input, 5V output | 21:33 |
| AStorm | anything good you could recommend? | 21:34 |
| ShadowJK | well okay, energizer kinda generally fails: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/SilverFoxCPF/EnergizerAA2300variousRates.gif | 21:34 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: lol, it broke ;) | 21:34 |
| ShadowJK | But energizer has incentive to keep their Nimhs crap so that people continue buy alkalines and lithiums :) | 21:34 |
| AStorm | I;m not sure if it's better to serially link the NiMH to get the 2.4V in, and get smaller capacity | 21:36 |
| AStorm | or link them parallel and face lower converter efficiency | 21:36 |
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| AStorm | assuming the converter can handle the current | 21:37 |
| ShadowJK | go for serial | 21:37 |
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| ShadowJK | though if you use serial, use a circuit that stops working at 1.6 ... 2.0V | 21:37 |
| AStorm | yes, that's not a problem :> | 21:38 |
| ShadowJK | That way it will stop when the voltage is somewhere between 0.8Volt and 1.0Volt per cell. NiMH hate getting discharged to death, and they especially hate reverse charging, which can happen if the capacities are mismatched and one cell gets empty before the other one does | 21:38 |
| AStorm | yes | 21:38 |
| ShadowJK | Old nicads on the other hand didn't mind getting drained dead :) | 21:39 |
| AStorm | they did mind a lot about charging when not empty though | 21:39 |
| ShadowJK | well... sort of :) | 21:39 |
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| ShadowJK | The energy was still stored in there, it just came out at 1 volt... which made most devices think the batteries were dead :) | 21:39 |
| AStorm | ok, so I need a very good DC/DC and I;m too lazy to design one | 21:40 |
| ShadowJK | I'm hopeless with soldering | 21:40 |
| AStorm | I'm hopeless with bad tools ;> | 21:40 |
| AStorm | need a good soldering iron stand | 21:40 |
| AStorm | or a good pencil soldering iron | 21:40 |
| ShadowJK | I built a 5V supply with 7805 before, but then I just took some wires and connectors from a dead 486 motherboard, they seemed to fit the 7805 perfectly, and then I used screws to hold the wiring in place for the rest of the components ... | 21:41 |
| AStorm | I'd rather make a circuit board | 21:42 |
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| AStorm | it's easy and space-efficient | 21:42 |
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| ShadowJK | heck, if I could even manage to solder some wires onto the pins of the 7805 I'd be happy | 21:42 |
| moontiger | GeneralAntilles, did you have anything to do with my garage thingy getting approved this morning? | 21:42 |
| ShadowJK | :P | 21:43 |
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| AStorm | 7805 is a huge beast | 21:43 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 21:43 |
| AStorm | nowhere close to current TSSOP | 21:43 |
| AStorm | I'd love some BGA chip | 21:43 |
| AStorm | and a good infrared lamp | 21:43 |
| ShadowJK | hm, those converters you looked at, did any of them handle input > output voltage ? | 21:44 |
| * moontiger goes off to figure out how to make a .deb... | 21:44 | |
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| ShadowJK | I'd want a 2Amp 3-4.2V -> 5V converter myself :> | 21:48 |
| _julian | hi | 21:50 |
| AStorm | 3-4.2 to 5 is easy | 21:50 |
| AStorm | there are many such devices | 21:50 |
| _julian | does someone know if it is possible to disable the onscreen keyboard for specific widgets in qt/maemo? | 21:51 |
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| Stskeeps | ~curse ext3 | 22:11 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, ext3 ! | 22:11 |
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| GAN800 | infobot's curses suck | 22:22 |
| moontiger | if im making a package do i have to go thru that scratchbox stuff? or can i just make a standard .deb file? | 22:24 |
| jott | GAN800: they are just getting old :) | 22:26 |
| jott | moontiger: you do not need scratchbox for creating debs, but a debian based host would be useful for it. | 22:27 |
| moontiger | i run a debian system on all my machines ... so i can just make a standard deb? :) | 22:27 |
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| jott | moontiger: well if it's not arch dependend :) | 22:29 |
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| jott | moontiger: or you prepare it for autobuilder and let the builder take care of it :) | 22:30 |
| moontiger | jott ... yes thnx ... its a python thingy so its pretty arch neutral | 22:30 |
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| moontiger | autobuilder? | 22:31 |
| jott | the extras(-devel) thingie. | 22:31 |
| Stskeeps | there's that py2deb thing as well .. i think | 22:31 |
| moontiger | forgive my lack of knowledge about all this but i dont know what you mean :| | 22:31 |
| moontiger | yes | 22:31 |
| jott | ~extras | 22:32 |
| infobot | somebody said extras was http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras | 22:32 |
| moontiger | but i want to learn to make debs anyways as i want to package stuff for the desktop too | 22:32 |
| Stskeeps | well, there's loads of guides if you google debian package creation | 22:33 |
| jott | just keep in mind that if you build your deb on a different system than your target, dependencies may differ, especially when using automatically generated depends with ${....:Depends} | 22:34 |
| jott | Stskeeps: problem is that many suck :p | 22:34 |
| Stskeeps | jott: which is why i swear by dpkg-deb --build :P | 22:35 |
| jott | moontiger: maybe also take a look at the maemo reference manual, it covers many basics. | 22:35 |
| moontiger | thanks guys ... im new to the debian way ... ex-windows programmer ... i know ... ive been to support groups and shared ;) | 22:36 |
| moontiger | im going thru the deb building stuff and it seems fairly simple | 22:36 |
| jott | yeah, most of the time it's straight forward. it's just that there are quite a few different approaches that have grown over the time. | 22:37 |
| lcuk | its easy to use a meat grinder as well | 22:37 |
| moontiger | hahaha | 22:37 |
| * lcuk gives moontiger half a thumbs up | 22:37 | |
| moontiger | i want to build a deb and put it in extras-devel for now | 22:38 |
| jott | lcuk: just don't put your thumb in the grinder :P | 22:38 |
| lcuk | what you on about, my thumb was the only thing saved | 22:39 |
| lcuk | you shouldv seen the mess it made of my legs! | 22:39 |
| moontiger | lcuk ... the typing thumb | 22:39 |
| jott | hah could you atleast feed your family? :) | 22:40 |
| lcuk | :D omg http://www.glowgadgets.co.uk/glowing-lite-thumb-tip-magic-item-lights-up-red.ir?cName=clubbing-gadgets | 22:40 |
| LinuxCode | you want to be E.T ? | 22:41 |
| LinuxCode | lifetime ambition mate ? | 22:41 |
| lcuk | well i had aimed to have other things glowing like that, but things didnt turn out as planned | 22:42 |
| LinuxCode | lol | 22:42 |
| LinuxCode | bahaha | 22:42 |
| * LinuxCode tries to not have his mind wander too much | 22:42 | |
| jott | the video is really disturbing :p | 22:42 |
| RST38h | please elaborate | 22:42 |
| * LinuxCode thinks toes | 22:42 | |
| * jott thinks spam | 22:43 | |
| lcuk | jott, thats more disturbing than my original train of thought | 22:43 |
| LinuxCode | I can deal with spam.... | 22:44 |
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| LinuxCode | not sure I can deal with your other thought | 22:44 |
| LinuxCode | lol | 22:44 |
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| melmoth | lcuk: i think i ll give up for the picture stuff.. pixbuf_new_from_* would require pygtk compiled with numeric support. | 23:12 |
| melmoth | and i miserably fail trying to transform the bitmap manually with the image module. | 23:12 |
| melmoth | workaround=save the file in a thread on the disk, and read it from the pygtk gui thread...ugly :-( | 23:12 |
| lcuk | what is the data you are trying to visualise | 23:13 |
| lcuk | and why couldnt you just draw onto a pixmap directly? | 23:13 |
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| melmoth | a cairo picturr representing the are the gps is on , using openstreetmap data | 23:14 |
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| melmoth | the irony is..it suppose to be for a "blind" application anyway (audio routing for bike mainly) :) | 23:15 |
| lcuk | http://www.zetcode.com/tutorials/cairographicstutorial/cairobackends/ | 23:16 |
| melmoth | lcuk:computing the image will takes some time, i just want one every once in a while | 23:16 |
| lcuk | doesnt that show using cairo drawing directly onto a gtk window? | 23:16 |
| melmoth | and i do not want the rest of the gui to be frozen while i compute it | 23:16 |
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| lcuk | how long does it take? | 23:17 |
| melmoth | lcuk: i have no problem drawingf directly on the area if i compute things from the pygtk gui thread. | 23:17 |
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| melmoth | It depends the number of node. | 23:17 |
| lcuk | average | 23:17 |
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| melmoth | couple of seconds on the tbale i guess | 23:17 |
| lcuk | are we talking seconds per frame, or still <0.2s kind of slow? | 23:18 |
| melmoth | i think drawing one frame will take more than a second | 23:18 |
| lcuk | arghh, is there any reasonable speedups you could attempt - even if you get it working on an offscreen bitmap, that kind of refresh time isnt good | 23:18 |
| melmoth | i do not know where i could speed up things. I already try to load as few nodes as possible. | 23:19 |
| melmoth | btw https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/src/?root=sayhoo | 23:20 |
| lcuk | during a single frame, do you have any idea how long each section takes? ie time to lookup data 0.4s, time to sort nodes 0.2s, time to clip and render 0.5 | 23:20 |
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| lcuk | is this the project itself? | 23:20 |
| melmoth | no, i do not do that. i just know drawing the frame is fast compared to fetching the data in the db and computing the route :-) | 23:21 |
| melmoth | yes it is | 23:21 |
| lcuk | lookup and rendering should be seperate to the route system? | 23:22 |
| lcuk | ie you dont have to do routing just the render do you | 23:22 |
| melmoth | the idea is to start to draw stuff only once i have a route | 23:22 |
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| melmoth | no point rendering stuff if i do not know where to go | 23:22 |
| melmoth | the route is extremely long, but, i think i ll try to hasv some "preferred" route stored, and only compute route to one of the nearest node in a route i already have computed | 23:23 |
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| lcuk | melmoth, if you draw on a gtk widget with cairo and the widget was hidden when you started, if you made it visible after you have finished will it contain all the stuff you drew with cairo? | 23:27 |
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| melmoth | i do not know. | 23:28 |
| melmoth | i never used drawing area before today :) | 23:28 |
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| lcuk | where have you had experience with maps? or is all of it new? | 23:29 |
| melmoth | lcuk: but the main wast of time is not that much the drawinfg itself, it s the feeding of nodes in the database, (wich needs to have at least the area from start to destination to compute route). | 23:29 |
| melmoth | as this takes a long time, and as i need this to dra the litte local map, i decided to do every stuff related to map in a separate obkect | 23:30 |
| melmoth | the gui is just , displaying stuff already made, and taking user events. | 23:30 |
| lcuk | melmoth, yes route scanning is like lightening, it expands from both ends to adjacent nodes until it meets its counterpart | 23:31 |
| melmoth | lcuk: i got inspired by http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Pyrender | 23:31 |
| melmoth | and http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/PyrouteLib | 23:31 |
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| lcuk | if you cannot get the entire node tree into memory then a very efficient algo must be found | 23:31 |
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| melmoth | i assume there is a route in the circle with diameter == start to destination+ a given buffer around | 23:32 |
| melmoth | the the algo is A* | 23:32 |
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| melmoth | works ok as long as there are no "island" | 23:33 |
| lcuk | melmoth, technically you just restrict it to know boundaries, it could span the earth looking for a route as long as the database/connection table contains links | 23:35 |
| kkrusty | lcuk: I got the n810 to work | 23:36 |
| lcuk | kkrusty, how? | 23:36 |
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| kkrusty | 10 minutes in the freezer and then firmware update | 23:36 |
| lcuk | melmoth, thats how google etc manage to have random routes which send you around multiple countries to get to another local dest | 23:36 |
| lcuk | kkrusty, :S wouldnt attempt somethin like that myself i dont think | 23:37 |
| kkrusty | lcuk: well yes the freezer part wasnt necessary but it seemed to work for some people: http://blog.homac.de/?p=58 | 23:37 |
| kkrusty | I just needed it to run for one time to get it updated | 23:38 |
| GAN800 | N810 was affected by the poweron issue | 23:38 |
| GAN800 | s/was/wasn't/ | 23:38 |
| infobot | GAN800 meant: N810 wasn't affected by the poweron issue | 23:38 |
| GAN800 | Only the N800 needed the update. | 23:38 |
| kkrusty | I had the n810 packed but I thought that I'd give the freezer tip a go since I didnt want to have it sent to the seller only for them to find it to work | 23:40 |
| GAN800 | moontiger, no, not a thing. | 23:40 |
| kkrusty | I'll obviously keep an eye on this for as long as its return policy is valid | 23:41 |
| melmoth | lcuk (and anyone who do pygame stuff): the previous week , i was thinking of using pygame instead of pygtk...And i hit a funny bug that made me change my mind. | 23:41 |
| melmoth | http://www.pjblog.net/index.php?2006/06/23/144-using-pycairo-with-pygame-surface | 23:41 |
| melmoth | when rendering this in pygame, i see a rose circle.and it should be gray | 23:42 |
| lcuk | make a minimal test case, report it as a bug? | 23:43 |
| melmoth | this is already a miminal test case :) I wonder _where_ the bug may be , and so where to report it. | 23:44 |
| melmoth | pygame ? | 23:44 |
| moontiger | melmoth ... ur problem is optimizing the route search yes? | 23:45 |
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| melmoth | moontiger: no, i m not into routing problems yet. my current issue is being able to prepare a cairo image in a separate thread than the one the gui is running on | 23:47 |
| moontiger | you cant pass the drawing surface into the thread? | 23:47 |
| melmoth | the surface depends from the window it s on. | 23:48 |
| melmoth | and i do not think passing it in another thread that would change its buffer is a good idea. | 23:48 |
| moontiger | well right but you cant pass a structure to the drawing thread that describes the surface it has to work with? | 23:48 |
| lcuk | shouldnt the worker thread simply be preparing vecotrs | 23:49 |
| melmoth | that s what i would like to be able to do ,like a numeric array (but maemo pygtk is not compiled to support it) or an array.array | 23:49 |
| lcuk | the render thread should just draw what its got available | 23:49 |
| melmoth | hmmm | 23:49 |
| lcuk | simply give it a list of (sx,sy,ex,ey,thick,color) | 23:49 |
| moontiger | ideally you would want a fifo render pipeline that gets fed from the prep thread | 23:49 |
| moontiger | lifo that is | 23:50 |
| moontiger | doh | 23:50 |
| melmoth | i like the idea of sendinf a list of vector, or a description of the image. | 23:50 |
| moontiger | can you not set up a shared memory buffer | 23:50 |
| melmoth | moontiger: i did try. | 23:51 |
| moontiger | that the prep thread writes to and the render thread / app reads from | 23:51 |
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| moontiger | like a dma buffer | 23:51 |
| melmoth | i was 1)not able to use it on the draw area itself (becuase of lack of skills) | 23:51 |
| lcuk | i even do it another way, in one of the things in my project, ive got 900 little sketch files to load and display - now i cannot do this all in a reasonable time, it takes about 20 seconds to load - but each frame i just load a couple | 23:51 |
| melmoth | 2) when , in the gui thread i used this buffer to write a file, i realised i had it wrong anyway: opposite and some mask problem | 23:51 |
| melmoth | i try to copy it in a numeric array to rechangeh it the way i want, without success. | 23:52 |
| moontiger | so the gui is where the user selects to end points and off you go yes? | 23:52 |
| moontiger | to = two | 23:52 |
| melmoth | the user only select 1 end point in a simple gtktreeview: it s alist of available "station", where you can take and put back the rent a bike thingy. | 23:53 |
| moontiger | ahhhhhhhhhh u live in paris yes? | 23:53 |
| moontiger | :) | 23:53 |
| melmoth | yep :) | 23:54 |
| melmoth | http://sd-2175.dedibox.fr/pic/000.png | 23:54 |
| melmoth | station are not shown there | 23:54 |
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| moontiger | hmmmmm i havent played with threads in python much but cant they see each others shared memory? | 23:55 |
| moontiger | or at least see the apps shared memory? | 23:56 |
| AStorm | they can | 23:56 |
| AStorm | but it means they take the global lock | 23:56 |
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| AStorm | the Global Interpreter Lock, or GIL | 23:56 |
| moontiger | so you could set up a route planning thread ... a rendering thread and have them run async to the main gui | 23:56 |
| moontiger | ahhhhhhhhhhh | 23:56 |
| AStorm | every bunch of bytecode lines | 23:56 |
| moontiger | wow thats a brilliant design decision ... not | 23:57 |
| AStorm | or some time | 23:57 |
| melmoth | that s what i m planning to do. Right now there is a main thread, one for the gui, and one for the mapping thingy | 23:57 |
| AStorm | moontiger: it is easier to do | 23:57 |
| AStorm | only concerns uninterpreted bytecode or variable access really | 23:57 |
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| AStorm | so Python threads are crummy | 23:57 |
| moontiger | ah ok ... im used to c/c++ threading | 23:57 |
| moontiger | AStorm, does that mean threading in python is a bit not worth it then? | 23:58 |
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| AStorm | it is worth it, if you're waiting for something | 23:59 |
| AStorm | or doing IO | 23:59 |
| AStorm | not if you want parallel computation | 23:59 |
| moontiger | ok that answrs my q ... thnx | 23:59 |
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