IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2008-08-22

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SargunMaemo is GTK based, right?00:06
Mekfor now, yeah...00:06
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dougt__is nohup available on device?00:27
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GAN800Mek, not gonna change anytime soon.00:33
melmothmoi ca m est jamais arrivé un inconnu qui m offre une boulette00:34
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crashanddiemelmoth, stoi la boulette00:42
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lbtany canola people here - does it work on nfs folders?00:56
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moontigeri use mediabox :)01:02
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crashanddiewhat are the "accepted" Section values for .debs again ?01:08
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moontigerdoes anybody know how to get a gripper handle on the bottom left of a home screen window?01:14
moontigerbottom right i mean01:14
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moontigercrashanddie, user free non-free afaik01:26
GeneralAntillesmoontiger, no.01:26
GeneralAntillesThat's in the repo01:26
moontigermy bad sorry01:27
GeneralAntillesHe's talking Section: User/Utilities Section01:27
* moontiger shuts up 01:27
GeneralAntillesand Extras is just free and non-free. :P01:27
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moontigerGeneralAntilles, how do i get the gpg key for uploading to extras again? :)01:28
infobotupload-extras is, like,
moontigerhehe nice! :)01:29
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shapr@yow !01:34
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles, there is no internet category ? That sucks01:40
* shapr hugs GeneralAntilles01:41
* GeneralAntilles 's Tyrant hugs shapr.01:42
jaskaoh its you01:43
shapryes it is!01:43
shaprheippa hei!01:43
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shaprhyvää huomenta!01:43
jaskabit early for that01:44
shaprwell, yeah...01:44
shaprhyvää ihltaa?01:44
jaskailtaa :)01:44
shaprbah, I never could spell Finnish :-(01:44
shaprI'm better with Swedish.01:45
jaskaheh, i remember you lived around here for a while01:45
shaprAre you in Oulu?01:45
shaprOr was that a country-wide 'around here' ?01:45
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, an app that downloads/displays an RSS feed about general news, where should that go ? Communication ? accessories ? tools ? other ?01:46
jaskanaah, alahärmä (east of vaasa), but i you used to be in a chan where i was iirc01:46
jaskaprolly with myrddraal or someone01:46
shapror #debian-fi ?01:46
shaprI haven't seen myrddraal in a long time.01:46
crashanddiein doubt, I'll put it in other01:47
GeneralAntillesaccessories, maybe, but I don't actually know01:48
GeneralAntillesThat PDF might have more info01:48
GeneralAntillesI haven't paid much attention.01:48
crashanddienha, it doesn't say a lot01:48
crashanddiejust gives an example for an office app, but your guess is as good as mine01:48
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GeneralAntillesGet with X-Fade when he gets back from vacation01:49
GeneralAntillesHe needs some help. ;)01:49
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crashanddieis the autobuilder log in real time ?02:09
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crashanddieAs in, I just uploaded my package, how long before I see it? :P02:10
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie, ~5 minutes02:13
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crashanddiehmm, ok02:13
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles, I'm sure that the fact it's me is why the build takes 20+ minutes :D02:25
crashanddieif (username == "crashanddie") sleep(3600);02:25
crashanddie/that's for bitching about the votes02:26
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pupnikopengl es 2.0 bling on Omap 3530
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DekaritaeSo, a friend of mine had his notebook taken at customs coming back from the states02:52
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moontigerDekaritae, serious? which customs?02:57
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DekaritaeWell he flew back from florida to ontario02:57
moontigerus customs took it?02:58
aspectcoming *from* the states? I thought that was supposed to happen the other way around?02:58
DekaritaeThe agent put it on the inspection conveyor, and he went through the metal detector, and when they were done processing him it was gone, and no one knew anything about it02:58
moontigeroh so it wasnt customs as such then?02:59
DekaritaeSucks less 'cause it was a work laptop, but still02:59
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DekaritaeIt was outbould from florida03:02
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moontigerdoes anyone know where i can find alist of the stock icons available in maemo?03:09
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mikkov_moontiger: depends what you mean by stock icons. Here's gtk stock icons
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moontigermikkov_, they dont look like that on the n8x0 tho right?03:16
mikkov_depends on the theme, I think03:16
moontigerok so if i want icons instead of text for buttons i can use the stock icons and things will be ok?03:16
mikkov_should be03:17
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* GeneralAntilles loves the OGG bug03:33
GeneralAntillesIt's the wonderful place for all the retards to come and illustrate to the world the depths of their retardation.03:34
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derfWhich bug is this?03:36
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n800mi cannots plays my oggs plzkthx03:38
GeneralAntillesPeople need to get a grip03:38
GeneralAntillesWas it advertise on the box?03:38
brontideI love how it can play ogg..... since all the Navigation cues are stored in ogg  ;-)03:43
derfI should post a comment telling them to get on #maemo and start cracking the whip on lardman.03:45
crashanddiepackage still not built :(03:51
crashanddieme wonders if he did it correctly...03:51
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* crashanddie blames GeneralAntilles 03:52
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tank-man"Was it advertise on the box" <-- sounds like an apple user ;)03:56
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moontigerthnx GAN800 :)04:06
moontigerGeneralAntilles, i thought you were talking about me there :|04:06
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AFBN810what would cause invalid package error?05:13
AFBN810Trying to install usb control05:13
AFBN810Any idea?05:15
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LuriaI love taking my nokia to the big glass apple store06:27
moontigerfirst rule of debugging: there IS something wrong with your code06:28
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ljpsecond rule of debugging: blame someone else06:31
n800mthat's the first rule of not debugging06:32
moontigerits more a zen-like acceptance that there is something wrong with your code06:33
moontigerTHEN you can find it and fix it06:33
moontigerafter beating your head against the desk for 3hrs first of course06:34
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DekaritaeToo many bands nowadays are using Apple commercials as the basis for music videos06:41
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n800myou owe me06:45
n800mthis is worse than half than the internet06:46
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Pavlzfew days ago we spoken about the free software distribution thinked for nokia 77006:48
Pavlzwhich is the URL ?06:49
pupnikthanks Dekaritae.  now i need to kill something.06:50
pupnikLinux on board: Developing for the Nokia N80006:50
Pavlzwhy to kill ?06:55
Pavlzi must create now a # for i, my friends and family, why with cell phone finishing many money06:57
Pavlzhere in italy all is more expensive06:57
Pavlzah, i would inform you that the charge battery of my nokia 770 yesterday finished to live06:59
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Pavlzthe nokia 770 works to 5 volts to 850 mA =4, 25 watt07:02
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Pavlzso to find another one i am thinking to use a sony ericsson Standard Charger CST-20 BML 162 170/1 R3A07:04
Pavlz100-240 Volt till 150 mA 50-60 Hz07:05
Pavlzand 4,9 Volt to 850 mA07:05
Pavlzmodel dc4-3102eu07:05
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Pavlzis a sony ericsson thinked for a cellular phone07:06
Pavlzyou must only remove the cable from the charger of nokia 770 and to sold on the circuit07:07
Pavlzand the joke is done07:07
pupnikit works yes?07:08
pupniki found differening voltages are problematic for charget07:08
Pavlzthe cables are the sames, one has the plug more big, the other of nokia 770 is more little07:08
Pavlzthis is the difference07:08
Pavlz5 volt or 4,9 are the same thik07:09
Pavlztake a multimeter07:10
Pavlzand set on DC Volt07:10
Pavlzthen see the difference is in the order oof 10% max07:10
Pavlz4,9 + 0.049 = 4,949 Volt07:12
Pavlzthe charger of nokia 770 works to 5 volts to 890 mA07:15
Pavlzit means the the battery does not to finish immediately as happen with charger of nokia 77007:16
Pavlzthis is the little difference 0,40 mA07:16
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* GeneralAntilles loves that the N800 picked up internet from the local ISP at the park.07:56
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n800nthe usb port doesn't recharge battery, correct?07:58
GeneralAntillesUnless you want to open it up and hack in some leads. ;)07:59
n800nhm... no. tempting08:00
n800ni tried sautering an ide port on a laptop once08:00
Pavlztake a max 23208:00
n800nnot good.08:00
n800nmax 232?08:01
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Pavlzand realize a circuit with a ttl converter to 3.7 volt08:01
Pavlzthen a slot for a battery easy to do08:01
n800nwas thinking about getting a hand crank08:01
Pavlzand 2 pins 208:02
Pavlzred and black08:02
Pavlzand all is finish08:02
n800ni've been watchin Lost  with my gf08:02
n800nan the n800 would really help on that island08:02
Pavlzand when the battery is charged you put in nokia n80008:03
Pavlzwich island ?08:03
n800nthe lost island08:03
Pavlzwhich ?08:03
n800nThe Island08:04
n800nbut there's no power08:04
Pavlzi do not know if can help you n80008:04
Pavlzno power ?08:04
n800ni have wikipedia on it08:04
n800nthat helps08:05
Pavlza little solar panel from 10 watts08:05
n800nwhat if i'm in the jungle?08:05
n800nhand crank is the best08:05
Pavlzhave you got a byke ?08:06
n800nbut i can't take it on a plane08:06
Pavlzthe dinamo unmount that08:06
n800ndon;t have one ;/08:06
Pavlzthe ring of byke ?08:07
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n800nii think i'll get that one i linked08:08
n800nthen i'll laugh in the face if civilization08:08
n800nwhile cranking08:08
doc|homecivilization always wins :(08:09
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Pavlzuse the bell of bike08:09
* pupnik listens to awesomeness08:09
pupnikmore great new media added today
n800nsober pupnik?08:10
pupnikno, why?08:10
t_s_othank the net for lolcatz. it would be a bad day if not...08:11
n800nlink clickin considerations08:11
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pupnikeducational site.  austrian economics.  lots of mp3s to feed brain08:11
n800nnot mine ;/08:12
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pupniki always wondered why i hated economics at university.  now i know08:13
pupnikwb generalissimo08:13
bef0rdI'm working on that lolcatz application08:15
t_s_ohmm, looking forward to a betatest ;)08:15
bef0rdhehe ok08:16
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n800nobama :No such nick/channel08:32
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doc|homen800n: good, I hear he's a spam bot. Keeps muttering crap about "Change" but then not elaborating on what that change will be when you pm him08:33
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n800nand he's hosted in a terrorist state08:34
GAN800Obama sells warm fuzzies.08:35
doc|homesounds about right for someone whose message was "we will not allow Iran to have a bomb" when neither the CIA nor the IAEA think he's even trying to get one (same for mccainbot too, both whackos)08:35
GAN800They all need to be fired out of a cannon into the sun.08:36
doc|homepfft, both of them have the standard politicians' coating of teflon. Fucker's would probably survive and declare war on the sun08:37
n800nyeah we should get a swiss guy08:37
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GAN800Hey, pupnik.08:46
GAN800Hi, Khertan.08:46
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moontigerhi Khertan :)08:47
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GAN800Yet another gem from that idiot mutiny32
GAN800Somebody please slap him for me if you see him at the Summit.08:52
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Khertan_n810GAN800: i ll be happy to help you08:56
Khertan_n810maybe we should give free tshirt to all troller to have a better idea of which people we need a slap each we see it ?08:59
Khertan_n810what do u think of this proposal ?08:59
Khertan_n810s/each/each time09:00
Khertan_n810lol i don t know that the name of the codec 'Vorbis' come from Terry Pratchett book09:07
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Khertan_n810and  so useless thing ... we already have a free audio codec better than ogg : aac09:13
doc|homeKhertan_n810: then you'll just be encouraging people to troll09:14
doc|homefor example, I know want a t-shirt09:14
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Khertan_n810doc|home: yep ... :)09:16
Khertan_n810you want a tshirt : 'i m a well know maemo troller' ?09:16
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emmaWhat's maemo?09:19
Khertan_n810other definition : a community with too many troller09:20
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pupnikyaay why is emma here?09:26
pupnikbuy a nokia internet tablet emma.  they're lurvely09:26
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emmaI just like to explore freenode some times and see what's out there.09:27
XTLtopics are good sources of information about channels09:27
emmaI'm afraid I know nothing about maemo, however, taking a cursory glance at the webpage, I think that jussi 16 should have won the contest (in my opinion)
pupnik  look emma!09:28
pupnikhappy fun thing09:28
Khertan_n810this onee is the best logo !09:29
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emmalooks pretty cool. Is Maemo related to the Nokia n800 series?09:29
doc|homeKhertan_n810: only thing better than a nice t-shirt is a free t-shirt!09:29
Khertan_n810yep this is the communtity around the internet tablet and the os09:29
johnx...or something like that09:29
pupnikhehe Khertan_n81009:29
emmaI thought that the OS was some Debian variant on that n800 thing.09:30
Khertan_n810this is ...09:30
Khertan_n810like ubuntu is a debian variant09:30
XTLA nicely schitzoid variant09:31
Khertan_n810maemo is another ...09:31
emmaOh then is Maemo like a distro?09:31
emmaahh okay that's pretty cool.09:31
emmaSo Maemo is a distro, a variant of Debian, that runs on the n800 gadgets?09:31
XTLpretty much09:32
XTLAnd there's an SDK based on scratchbox09:32
XTLOr two.09:32
emmaOkay pretty cool.09:32
johnxit's kind of thrown around as a general term to encompass a lot of tablet related things09:32
XTLFor cross-compilation09:32
emmaWhat's an SDK?09:32
johnxSoftware Development Kit09:32
Stskeepsjohnx: sound has been added btw :)09:33
johnxcompilers, documentation, examples, related tools, etc09:33
XTLMaemo's often used as a word for the community side. The other side is Nokia09:33
johnxStskeeps, yeah. just saw that. Sorry I wasn't more help :/09:33
emmaOkay for writing apps specifically for maemo (or the tablet) ?09:33
Stskeepsjohnx: hehe, seems like most of the work was lifted from beta3 really09:33
XTLemma: For building them and making packages. Cross-compiling.09:33
moontigerkhertan ... do you know how to change the bg color of a label widget? ive tried everything and it wont change :(09:33
johnxStskeeps, well, that's good at least. I borrowed a lot of that stuff from Mamona in the first place.09:34
emmaokay so first you write your application and then you use sdk for making them runable on maemo?09:34
XTLemma: Easier than coding on the device :)  (some disagree)09:34
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Khertan_n810XTL: False09:35
Khertan_n810easier to code on device !09:35
emmaIs there a maemo repo so that you can use apt-get ?09:35
emmasince it is related to debian is there the debian package manager on it?09:35
XTLThere's several. One big one.09:35
XTLApt's there, of course.09:35
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emmaIs Maemo much like other Debian based Linux distros if you take it to the command line?09:36
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Stskeepsemma: pretty much.. there are some minor differences such as using busybox sh instead of bash, but if you know debian, you can get far with maemo09:36
moontigerKhertan, scratch that ... got it09:36
XTLPretty much. With some tweaks to eg save space etc09:37
emmaCould maemo be run on a desktop computer?09:37
Stskeepsemma: someone has made qemu emulation images of maemo atleast09:37
emmaI'm sorry what is qemu?09:38
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Stskeepsit's software to emulate another machine09:38
emmaAhh I see.09:38
emmaBut I guess that maemo itself will not be installable on an i86 computer.09:39
Stskeepswell for development you can run parts of it in the SDK / Scratchbox thing.. but i can't see why you'd want to run it on a i86 as it's very dedicated to the tablet format and usage09:40
emmaone thing i like about that n800 is the touchscreen keyboard.09:41
johnxStskeeps, it might be neat to run on an MID09:41
johnxemma, yeah. the touchscreen keyboard is actually pretty nice09:41
Stskeepsjohnx: true, true09:42
emmai don't own an n800 but in fact I intend to get one perhaps soon.09:42
emmaI think I want the n81009:42
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emmaI want the one that has the camera but not the pullout keyboard.09:42
emmaI don't feel like I have any use for a pull out keyboard.09:42
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Stskeepsboth has camera, n800 has the pop out camera, n810 has the one in front09:42
Stskeepsno pullout on n80009:43
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emmaIs the n810 better than the n800 then or not?09:43
Stskeepsdepends on your perspective.. i like n800 better than n81009:43
emmawhat do you mean by popout camera?09:43
Stskeepsi don't need gps or pull out keyboard09:44
emmaI sure don't need pullout keyboard. gps maybe...09:44
Stskeepson the side of a n800 theres a circle you can gently push and a camera pops out09:44
emmapopsout completely or so you can swivle it or what?09:44
johnxit goes from completely hidden to visible09:44
johnxand you probably want a separate bluetooth GPS anyways09:45
Avewebkit has some hildon stuff going for it, is there a usable frontend (eal?) or anyone tried to compime midori for maemo?09:45
johnxthe one on the N810 is pretty slow even when it works09:45
emmabut the choice was made in n810 to change the camera design. Why?09:45
johnxAve, there was a version of midori for maemo a while back09:45
johnxemma, probably to save space and make it less fragile09:45
atulI am using below things in my on maemo platform09:45
atulbase code.09:45
atulif test x$ac_cv_header_apt_pkg_configuration_h != xyes; then09:45
atul  AC_ERROR([libapt-pkg not found.])09:45
atulwhile doing ./configure form console it gives me09:45
atulbelow error messages ? How to resolve ?09:45
johnxAve, not sure if it got updated recently09:45
atulchecking apt-pkg/configuration.h usability... no09:45
atulchecking apt-pkg/configuration.h presence... no09:45
atulchecking for apt-pkg/configuration.h... no09:46
atulconfigure: error: libapt-pkg not found.09:46
Avejohnx: ok thanks, I'll look around if I can fin dit09:46
emmais the camera a webcam or a digital camera?09:46
Stskeepswebcam at best09:46
kulvea bad webcam09:46
johnxit's a pretty lame webcam quality09:46
Stskeepsjohnx: i still haven't found the cause of the dreaded fsck problem :/ i thought mounting it all correctly with linuxrc, readonly and all would fix it.. even the fix with moving FSCK_LOGFILE09:46
johnxStskeeps, that's so odd...09:46
emmaSo it's not really good for use as a digital camera then.09:47
emmaWhat is the most recent model? Is it n900s now?09:47
johnxemma, it's not completely awful in direct sunlight09:47
johnxemma, "N900" doesn't exist. It's just speculation. No announcement from Nokia about it at all09:47
emmahaha that's a ringing endorsement, "It's not completely awful"09:47
Avesuppose the camera (VGA resolution I think) is meant for stuff like video calls, think skype09:48
Avenothing else..09:48
XTLIt's hard to use for else since it's pointed at the user09:48
johnxemma, heh. I don't want to make you think it's better than it is. :)09:48
Aveits hard to use because its so sucky quality..09:48
Aveand currently nothing even harnesses it!09:49
johnxthe camera on my "free with contract" cell phone from a year ago is miles better than the N800's cam09:49
emmaYou guys are masters of the soft sell.09:49
johnxemma, we're interested in the software, not selling hardware for Nokia09:49
emmaI get you and I'm just kidding, but it sounds like maemo mainly just runs on this hardware.09:50
johnxand also, if you buy it and hate it you'll just be back here to yell at us :D09:50
XTLPhone cameras have gotten pretty amazing anyway09:50
Avethat is all09:50
johnxXTL, it's too bad Nokia didn't have a nicer camera lying around to put in the tablets :/09:50
Aveshoud have bought a module from sonyericsson09:51
Avewhat a heresy09:51
* johnx has no loyalty to huge hardware vendors09:51
emmahaving even a low end, say 5 mega pixel , digital camera in there would be pretty cool.09:51
Aveits quit big tho what I've seen, so wouldnthave fitted09:51
Avealso I'm looking forward on trying out andrdoid on the n810 hardware09:52
johnxhaving even a working 1MP camera with white-balance control would be a *huge* improvement09:52
XTLOne that doesn't take weeks to get from zero to picture09:52
Avewell the concensus is that the current camera is almost unusable joke09:52
emmaI have heard of people putting Kubuntu on one of these n800s09:52
Aveonce the debian armel port is finished it oughta just plop right in09:53
Aveprolly usable even now?09:53
johnxAve, well, kubuntu will plop right in after a couple weeks of compilation :)09:53
johnxdebian+kde will be just a click away09:53
emmabut what a person really needs is that touchscreen keyboard or they are doomed.09:54
timelyGAN800: wanna explain to c80 (private/public) how to use mailprefs to skip mail by votes09:54
emmasounds like that touchscreen keyboard is given by maemo09:54
emmakubuntu doesn't have it.09:54
Aven810 needs no virtual keyboard09:54
emmawhy not?09:54
johnxemma, there are a couple software keyboards, but the mameo one is the best one I've used09:55
Avebc it has a real one09:55
atulEsworp : How to install libapt-pkg inside scratch-box ?09:55
johnxN810 = slide out keyboard. N800 = onscreen keyboard only09:55
emmathat's what i thought but someone said it has no pullout keyboard.09:55
emmaI think that the 800 is better then.09:55
wizaand that is the reason why I didn't buy internet tablet before n81009:55
atul How to install libapt-pkg inside scratch-box ?09:55
emmawhy would i want a pullout keyboard? As if I'm going to use something like an n800 to write my novel.09:56
wizaemma: how is n800 better than n810 since they are about the same, except n810 has keyboard and internal gps09:56
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emmaThe internal gps is indeed intriguing.09:56
timelyStskeeps: of course, ubuntu defaults to dash... so sh differences aren't that rare :)09:56
emmathat must make it much more expensive though.09:56
johnxemma, pullout is better for IM/IRC :)09:56
emmadoes it actually come with working gps?09:56
wizaand the keyboard is imho better for irc,im,email09:56
emmai just don't know.09:57
emmahow much does the 800 cost and how much does the 810 cost?09:57
wizaemma: yep. I use it when I'm driving, works ok09:57
Stskeepstimely: well lenny has support for dash too.. tried it on n8x0 instead of bash, it was actually a lot faster09:57
emmain USD09:57
Avethe internal gps sucks as much as the internal camera, sorry09:57
Aveits really bad09:57
Avecold start is like 10 minutes09:57
johnxthe GPS works, just kinda slowish09:57
Aveno siree bob09:57
wizaAve: except with diablo, a-gps works09:57
Avebut thats what you get for NOT having a sirf3-chipset09:58
emmado you have to pay a monthly service for the GPS ?09:58
wizausually it gets a fix in a max, minute09:58
johnxanyways, you're better off with a cheap bt GPS that you can hold someplace where it can get signal09:58
wizaemma: for the turn-by-turn voice, yes09:58
emmabut not for the map and locator?09:58
AveI have a bt-gps as well, you can leave it in your shirt pocket or whatever and get a fix in seconds09:58
wizajohnx: err, it keeps lock inside my motorbiking jacket...09:59
pupnikwhatever happened to kotczarny09:59
wizaI can ride over 100 km's and it doesn't loose my location09:59
pupnikdoes someone wanna finish the fast snes emu port?09:59
wizaonce it gets the lock, it keeps it, the initial lock just takes a while :p09:59
qwerty12pupnik: no idea, I was wondering the same thing :(. His website is still alive thouhg :/09:59
emmaThe wireless works reliably in maemo?09:59
Avehey guys, see this:
emmaconnects to 802.11a ?10:00
Avethats maemo mapper gps status screen, on airplane ..10:00
emmaWPA ?10:00
pupnikwireless reception is great emma.  i dunno about unusual WPA setups tho10:00
johnxWPA = yes, 802.11a = no10:00
rm_youjust b/g?10:00
emmaI thought 802.11a is what the protocol is for wifi10:00
johnxrm_you, yup.10:00
pupnika b g i n10:00
pupnikand probably more10:01
johnxemma, wifi is a pretty wide set of protocols10:01
Avea is old old, not really used these days10:01
Aveits all g/b and newer10:01
emmawell how does it find the wifi connection ?10:01
johnx802.11b is old but very standard. 802.11g is new but standard. 802.11a isn't that widely used10:01
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rm_youmost of my net cards are a/b/g, i guess mobile devices don't want to bother fitting the hardware in there for more than b/g10:01
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rm_youlaptop is draft-n  :)10:02
pupnikemma how does anything find a wifi connection10:02
rm_youas is my WRT-300N10:02
johnxrm_you, prolly the antenna rather than the hardware...but Nokia also cheaped out massively on all the components :)10:02
rm_youack i have to wake up for work in 4 hours <_<10:02
emmai thought the common way to send and recieve wifi is with 802.11a10:02
johnxrm_you, ick. I just finished for the week10:02
rm_youemma: that is one standard...10:02
johnxemma, nope. :)10:02
pupnikno 802.11g is most common10:02
rm_you802.11* are the wireless protocols10:03
pupnikand we should all be bathing in the wisdom of Thomas E. Woods Jr.10:03
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* johnx bathes in ... ya'know...water10:04
rm_younot sure if that is helpful10:04
johnxthis might be helpful:
rm_youprobably more so :P10:04
pupnikalso there's a new dynrec for dosbox on gp2x10:04
pupnikif anyone wants to try building that10:04
emmaUsually wifi strugles on linux. I wonder why it works so well on maemo10:05
rm_youone device, one driver10:05
emmabecause really if that tablet cannot reliably get wifi it would be worthless and I'm sure nokia does not allow that.10:05
qwerty12+ we will never find out due to a lot of it being closed source :)10:05
pupnikrm_you said the answer10:05
rm_youthe reason people have problems with wifi on linux is because of crazy wireless chipsets10:05
rm_youand lack of support10:06
rm_yousome wireless chipsets work excellently in various flavours of linux... some don't work at all10:06
rm_youbuy a wireless card with a known-to-work chipset, and it will be perfect :P10:06
pupnikand i miss ssvb and Tak too :(10:06
pupnikand unique31110:06
emmaI have an aironet cisco wifi card.10:06
qwerty12ssvb still comes sometimes.10:06
emmait ought to be great. but some times I'm not sure.10:07
rm_youemma: yeah i have one too... it... sort of works10:07
johnxemma, how many years old is that? O_o10:07
rm_youmy ralink is similar... works KINDA10:07
emmaI can get it working to find my signal, but it seems like it can only  handle unsecured, or wep.10:07
rm_youjohnx: many years10:07
emmaI have not made it work with WPA yet.10:07
rm_youmine is a/b only10:07
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pupnikprolly a 340 eh rm_you10:07
rm_youemma: yeah, wpa_supplicant and the like is tricky10:07
emmaaironet cisco really should work. That has to be top quality.10:07
rm_youemma: it has nothing to do with quality, really10:07
pupnikmine got stolen10:07
rm_youit has more to do with openness of the chipset driver10:08
pupniki still have to arrange a beating for the guy who stole it10:08
rm_yousome of the CHEAPEST cards work like a charm10:08
rm_youbecause they use really simple common chipsets10:08
emmasomeone should go into buisness as an opensource hardware maker.10:08
rm_youand so many people buy them and work on the driver support that they work flawlessly10:08
moontigerKhertan, you around?10:08
rm_youemma: it has been tried10:08
rm_youin various fields10:08
johnxemma, it's a losing proposition. Linux users are notoriously cheap :P10:09
rm_youone example i can think of offhand, pchdtv10:09
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emmaI would thik that even linux users would pay for a wifi card they knew would actually work.10:09
rm_youdunno how profitable that venture was <_<10:09
rm_youemma: they do :P10:09
rm_youyou just need to do some research10:09
johnxemma, that's why they buy intel cards10:09
johnxintel has really been "doing the right thing" (tm) lately10:09
moontigeremma, best buy sells a generic own brand one for $10 that works like a charm10:09
emmaI have a thinkpad. It is intel card. But the aironet wifi seems sketchy. As I said. I still have not gotten it to work when my signal is WPA protected.10:10
emmamoontiger: dynex?10:10
rm_youemma: moving to linux/gnu/opensource really requires a redefinition of the standard mindset in many aspects, including hardware10:10
emmamoontiger: a wifi card you mean?10:10
johnxaironet != intel :)10:10
moontigeremma, yes10:10
rm_youbrand-name crazy expensive hardware is actually likely to be less open10:10
emmaCan you open a laptop and change that or are you stuck with whatever your network device is?10:11
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rm_youyou can buy a USB or a PCMCIA adapter...10:11
moontigeremma, depends on the laptop ... i changed the one inside my thinkpad10:11
rm_youit is difficult to actually swap out the card tho :/10:11
rm_youunless the laptop is specifically designed to allow it10:11
johnxit all depends on the laptop10:11
moontigerthinkpads == awesome :)10:12
johnxsometimes laptops are a huge PITA to get apart without breaking10:12
rm_youi've seen maybe one in five that let you10:12
emmabut could i get a usb network device that would confidently work with linux, and be able to use it rather than the internal one?10:13
johnxemma, yes10:13
moontigeri would suggest a pcmcia card instead personally10:13
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johnxemma, just as long as you're willing to buy one you've researched and know will work well with linux :)10:13
emmamoontiger: this is a laptop.10:13
rm_youemma: pcmcia == laptop10:14
moontigerummmm the small slots in the side are for pcmcia cards ;)10:14
johnxemma, pcmcia is that rectangular slot on the side10:14
emmaoh i see.10:14
emmalet me take a look and see if it's there.10:14
johnxpcmcia aka pc card aka cardbus aka sandwich slot :)10:14
moontigeri always find usb nics seem to be sluggish10:14
emmaThere is something there.10:14
moontigeremma, what laptop do you have?10:14
pupniki have a nice ALFA with ext. 9db antenna and 300mw10:15
emmathinkpad x3110:15
rm_youaka that slot that every laptop has and i've never once used10:15
* pupnik launches into ballistic trajectory to pounce on emma's thinkpad10:15
rm_youjohnx: so most of my hardware is getting to the "falling apart" point <_<10:15
johnxemma, and you said there's something already in it?10:15
johnxrm_you, eh? what happened?10:15
emmanot in that pcmcia slot.10:15
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emmabut in the computer yes.  It's an aironet wireless cisco10:16
pupnikthe thinkpad x300 is like sexxx... led backlight... umts10:16
moontigerit has the atheros chip in it10:16
moontigerhave you tried the madwifi drivers?10:16
rm_youjohnx: the northbridge fan on my server mb died... then like a week later the power supply in my desktop went up in a shower of sparks and smoke.... and my server's case is like, bent/torqued in a crazy way10:16
emmaI don't know.10:16
johnxpupnik, I'm liking the x200 actually. but yes, the new x series looks great10:16
rm_youjohnx: when i pick it up, it flexes and TWISTS10:16
johnxrm_you, :(10:16
emmawell this is not a new computer. I did not say x300 I said x31 :)10:16
johnxemma, pupnik and I are just dreaming :)10:17
rm_youjohnx: so, server is out of commission... and the SIX drives i have in there are all pushing five years... of 24/7 runtime...10:17
johnxrm_you, skeery. you run smartctl on them, right?10:17
rm_youthey need to be retired like... now.10:17
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rm_you1Tb isn't even that much any more10:18
rm_you250gb drives are done for10:18
* pupnik uses 7 year old thinkpad and is still happy10:18
rm_youjohnx: yeah... one of them is being a little funky, it dies a lot10:18
johnxrm_you, even I'm up to almost 1TB on random drives10:18
rm_youresynched my raid like 3 times in a month10:18
pupnikEXCEPT at linuxtag the bitch crossed me10:18
rm_youI need to replace the whole server10:19
johnxthe closest I have to a working laptop is a Zaurus C100010:19
emmawhen researching for a pcmcia card that will 'just work' is it about it working with linux or about it working with the computer you have with linux?10:19
emmaif you get my question?10:19
emmaand is it distro specific?10:19
rm_youpretty much just working with linux10:19
rm_youand MOSTLY not distro specific10:19
emmawould it be sufficient to search for such a card that works with debian?10:19
rm_youi would just check ubuntu10:19
rm_youif there is a guide for ubuntu, then it will probably work10:19
emmathere is a guide for ubuntu.10:19
emmahow did you know i used ubuntu?10:20
rm_youdidn't. it's just a good reference point10:20
pupniki had the aironet 340 working with linux on a Psion Netbook10:20
pupnikthink they are just atheros chipset10:21
emmaFor lists of supported hardware on Ubuntu see - To help debugging  and improving hardware detection, see
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bef0rd could it be possible to run the kvm image with something different, such as vmware, qemu?10:23
pupnikbtw any of you got rtl8187 going on n8x0?10:24
qwerty12pupnik: I've compiled diablo modules and one guy said he had it working with the chinook modules I compiled for you a long time ago10:24
pupnikyeah ty for that10:24
rm_you.anyway gotta sleep10:24
qwerty12'Night, rm_you10:25
johnx'night rm_you10:25
* qwerty12 never used to say 'night before coming here and stealing it off johnx :P :)10:25
* rm_you rofls at qwerty12/johnx as he powers off monitors10:25
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johnxqwerty12, muahaha10:25
pupnikthis is a great community10:26
* qwerty12 is now seeing what using the internet for ages does to me at night. Now that I don't have a tablet to use until my replacement charger arrives, I can't actually get to sleep until really late >.<10:27
pupnikwhy does tablet help you sleep?10:27
Stskeepsporn @ tablet?10:28
t_s_oit do not, but he stays away wanting to play with it...10:28
pupnikman, 2007 was fun10:28
qwerty12pupnik: It was a really bad habit I got into, I would browse the internet for *ages* and now that I can't, I can't get to sleep quickly anymore >.<10:28
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Stskeepsqwerty12: ah, shutting your brain off? :P10:29
pupnikyou have confused pupnik10:29
qwerty12Stskeeps: yarr10:29
qwerty12pupnik: sorry, blame it on my tiredness >.<10:29
emmayeah maemo is pretty cool. you guys are cool.10:30
* pupnik gazes proudly at a row of empty wine bottles10:30
pupnikgot money for one emma? :)10:30
t_s_ostarting the weekend early pupnik?10:30
emmamoney for what?10:31
pupnika n800 or n81010:31
pupnikfrankly i'm itchy to see the next device10:31
pupnikomap 3430 has been out for a long time now10:31
johnxpupnik, they have medicine for that now...10:32
* qwerty12 detests the new sourceforge layout10:32
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emmaYeah I can get one.10:34
emmalooks like the n810 is about 500 dollars.10:34
moontigeris there any reason doing "i.set_from_stock()" on an image "i" would crash the tablet?10:34
emmaHow much is an n800 though?10:34
Stskeepsi've found it for 200$ or so, if you can find it10:34
emmathat's nothing.10:34
johnxemma, yeah, the N800 is technically discontinued now10:34
emmamust be on ebay10:35
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johnxthere are some places that still have stock sitting around I think...just somewhat hard to find10:35
emmabut if there is an n820 coming....10:35
johnxwell there is an N810 w/ wimax support coming...but if you don't know what wimax is you don't need it :)10:36
qwerty12The N810 price may go down when the wimax comes10:36
emmawhat's the wimax?10:36
qwerty12johnx said it better, there is going to be a n810 with wimax support10:36
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emmawimax is like satelite broadband?10:37
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johnxexactly...except without the satellites :)10:37
XTLOr a really long range wlan10:37
emmabasically like broadband through cell towers?10:37
XTLOr a really broadband packet switched cellular network10:37
johnxemma, yeah. pretty close to that.10:38
* qwerty12 doesn't buy into WiMax, HSDPA all the way10:38
XTLMy father has wimax. Nothing else will carry that far into nowhere10:38
emmai probably don't need that but if it did bring down the price of of the older 810s.10:38
johnxdoesn't cost me anything to wait and see which one will win :)10:38
emmanow im not sure if i should wait or not.10:38
johnxemma, it won't bring down the cost of the N800 though I'd bet10:38
XTLThe other end is up a gsm tower 5km away so there's infra there.10:38
johnxI'm pretty sure the N800 price is as low as it's going to get for a while10:39
XTLBut the phonelines are too old and so is the gsm (gprs is slow)10:39
RST38hmoo, johnx, qwerty10:39
emmaoh im sure10:39
emmai'm talking about the 81010:39
johnxRST38h, m00 :D10:39
qwerty12hey RST38h10:39
emmayeah im definitely going to be getting either the 800 or the current 810.10:40
emmaso i'll just continue to hang out here.10:41
johnxemma, heh...darn. I guess we accidentally sold another one of these stupid things :D10:42
XTLWell, there's a lot of almost this type devices, but if you like the nit, I don't think there's many alternatives.10:42
emmawhat is nit?10:43
johnxNokia Internet Tablet10:43
XTLOr maemo for that matter10:43
johnxaka, the 770, N800, N810 and anything else they make in the future10:43
emmai will probably get the n810 so that i have the best one among my friends.10:44
qwerty12hehe, they don't listen to much, do they?10:44
XTLSo you'll get your friends to get 800's10:44
qwerty12much radio that is >.<10:44
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emmai have a friend that has the 770 and another that has the 800.10:45
XTLSo this wasn't an entirely strange idea10:45
* qwerty12 friends are under the impression that the N800 is a phone due to it saying Nokia >.<10:46
johnxqwerty12, it's not a phone...I just figured no one was calling me... O_o10:46
emmacan you run skype on it?10:47
XTLI once had a psion (borrowed, too). People thought it was a communicator (as in Nokia 9xxx)10:47
Stskeepsemma: yeah, skype comes bundled10:47
qwerty12Some dumbass friend starts arguing with me that why would Nokia make it then if it wasn't a phone10:47
XTLemma: skype, gtalk, SIP...10:47
johnxemma, yeah. Skype actually works really well10:47
emmawell then it is kind of a phone :)10:47
XTLqwerty12: You should show them the boots, tires, network equipment... :)10:47
XTL(Ok, so they're separated these days)10:48
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qwerty12The N800 connects to my Sony Ericsson W810 better for going on the internet than the actual phone does itself10:48
RST38hno wonder10:49
t_s_oheh, i have a nokia sat tuner here. not the best one, but it gets the job done...10:49
emmaScandinavian technology.10:50
qwerty12Yeh, pretty crap phone but I try opera mini on it, connection failed over and over again. Connect the N800 to it, the icon shows it's connected and I get google. I haven't tried it with my P1 though.10:50
qwerty12P1 sucks though, can't get it to connect with my AP when I keep WPA on.10:50
qwerty12the N80 works fine with WPA10:50
t_s_oheh, your running the latest firmware on all of them?10:51
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qwerty12I was at the time :), the N80 is probably a few releases out now but it worked fine with the old firmware. The p1 is probably old but I hate installing that java/flash crap to update the firmware on it. With my W810, because it's hacked, i can just use setool with it10:52
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XTLt_s_o: Oh, yeah, there's those too. And dsl modems. But I guess that's back to the telco equipment10:52
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t_s_ohmm, not sure if my SE Z710 is more recent then the W810. firmwares of the SE phone have been a bit hit and miss with the later models...10:53
emmawhat webbrowser comes on the n8#0 ?10:53
t_s_omicrob, gecko/firefox based10:53
qwerty12t_s_o: it is, it uses a later generation of enea ose come think of it too10:54
t_s_omay explain why i cant say i have seen those kinds of issues on my phone then10:54
qwerty12Oh, I know that phone, my sister has the W710. Z710 can be flashed to W71010:54
t_s_obut then i more or less used a T610 to death before swapping to the Z710.10:55
t_s_osure can, but i dont see the need10:55
* qwerty12 likes modding sony ericsson phones, my first proper phone was a K750 that I had flashed to W80010:55
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t_s_ohmm, im tempted to go for the C702. but it seems the firmware is a bit problematic. but then it will mostly be used as a 3G "modem" for my tablet so ;)10:56
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* qwerty12 <3's Sony's Japanese phones10:57
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* XTL has a T61010:57
XTLOlde. But the battery just keeps on going.10:58
t_s_owell, the ericsson part is swedish. but i think its more and more pure japan these days10:58
qwerty12XTL: If you replace the screen and buy a service cable, you can make it a t630 :P10:58
timelyStskeeps: does skype actually come bundled?10:58
timelyor just an installer?10:58
* qwerty12 has a service cable. my second one come think of it10:58
qwerty12t_s_o: yer, head quartered right here in London though :)10:59
t_s_oheh, silly stuff that...10:59
qwerty12I would like to say that we have a brilliant economy but if it's true that we could be going into recession....11:00
t_s_ofunny thing is, i was considering a motorola phone. until motorola basically said the phone i had my eye on was going to be o2 only or something like that...11:00
* qwerty12 empties bank account and converts it into drugs. real hard money.11:00
qwerty12t_s_o: eew, I hate motorola, a razr I had once would start typing random things in texts. the modding was nice though11:01
qwerty12Hmm, you don't have o2 in Norway right? Here, I think it's the biggest network11:01
t_s_owell this one would be using symbian and uiq so...11:01
* qwerty12 still wouldn't buy it. Motorola don't believe in touch screens for the UIQ phones, even though UIQ is meant to be used with one11:02
t_s_onope, only telenor, netcom (teliasonera owned these days) and a bunch of "virtuals"11:02
t_s_onone of the big foreign ones seems to bother. tho i think 3 has a licence here, but never started building...11:03
qwerty123 are a network here, free MSN is pretty decent11:03
timelyt_s_o: the market's too small11:03
timelywould you bother?11:03
t_s_otimeless: fully aware of that ;)11:03
* qwerty12 gets back to remapping the keys for the linux gameandwatch#11:04
t_s_obut i think we currently have more active mobile phone numbers then there are people so...11:04
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emmacould you put compiz-fusion on a nokia n810 ?11:05
qwerty12Nah, no hardware opengl11:05
qwerty12Come think of, the default window manager is a little odd too11:05
qwerty12s/of/of it/11:05
infobotqwerty12 meant: Come think of it, the default window manager is a little odd too11:05
timelyemma: the cpu is 400mhz11:06
timelydo you really want to try?11:06
XTLAnd usually it's battery powered11:06
emma400mhz doesnt mean much to me.11:07
t_s_ohmm, now that i think about it, one other reason why the big operators dont move in, you cant be bound by contract to a single operator for more then 12 months. netcom had to rework the iphone contracts because of that...11:07
emmai guess that means that the electron goes around the loop 400 mega times per second?11:07
qwerty12t_s_o: that's pretty decent come think of it. here, the norm is now becoming 18 months11:08
t_s_oi think the same contracts where 18-24 in sweden11:08
XTLElectrons are surprisingly lazy bastards. Mostly the queues just inch along and push.11:08
johnxemma, yup. that's a little slow for compiz. 800MHz and a decent graphics card and compiz would work ok...11:09
t_s_obut then i suspect they where all drafted by apple as part of the agreement with teliasonera...11:09
XTLGo around in their own little cirles rather than do any work11:09
emmayeah the drift velocity of an electron is pretty slow.11:09
emmabut something is going around. I'm not sure what.11:09
qwerty12why must qwerty checkout from svn and not export :/11:10
emmaI guess every time something goes around thats one calculation that can be done.11:10
XTLFetch and execute cycle11:11
timelyemma: when i started college 10 years ago, i got a 400mhz x86 pc11:11
timelythe n800 has a 400mhz arm chip11:11
XTLor fdx11:11
timelydoes that give you some idea of processing power?11:11
emmai wish i knew what was going around though.11:11
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t_s_ohmm, i recently tossed my 66Mhz 486 :P11:11
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emmacan you put linux on a 486 ?11:11
XTLMy main server is 466 celeron11:11
XTLemma: Of course11:11
emmai haven't seen a 486 in a long time.11:12
t_s_oheh, i would claim that one could put linux on a toaster if it had a cpu ;)11:12
bef0rdthere was a toaster running netbsd though :P11:12
emmawhat about a 243 ?11:12
qwerty12I think there have been linux toasters :/11:12
t_s_obef0rd: i could have sworn i read about a expresso machine running windows to...11:12
XTLI've actually been thinking of getting a 48611:12
emmaCould you put linux on a TRS 80 color computer 2 ?11:12
XTLOr any ISA bus machine.11:13
XTLemma: you can put Lunix on a c6411:13
t_s_oand sure enough, it was infected by a rootkit...11:13
XTLI'd just need a small enough one.11:13
t_s_oah, the C64 :D11:13
emmaWhat's lunix now?11:13
t_s_oi recently read that some people had made a network multiplayer game for the C64 ;)11:14
XTL  Ooh, a NG one :-D11:14 a photo recently of the LCD advertising board hanging over an ATM showing a bluescreen :D11:14
qwerty12"Updated: Sep 10 2004"11:14
Khertani m back11:14
t_s_ojohnx: there was a bluescreen in the olympic opening...11:14
johnxemma, linux needs a 386 or better in terms of x86 computers11:14
emmai see it is little unix written in assembly.11:14
qwerty12johnx: yeah, don't know why ATM's run windows. Mostly NT round here11:15
johnxt_s_o, It's just different seeing it in person :)11:15
emmai wonder if anyone has ever written the linux kernel in assembly.11:15
qwerty12it was in assembly first afaik11:15
t_s_ojohnx: i can agree with that ;)11:15
emmawouldn't that make all linux better if the kernel was written in assembly?11:15
johnxqwerty12, mostly they used to run OS/2 but some people couldn't leave well enough alone I guess...11:15
wizaemma: hell no11:15
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johnxemma, a lot of it probably used to be done in assembly11:16
qwerty12johnx: yeah :D11:16
t_s_oemma: some part of it is assembler. the part that do the very basics of booting11:16
Stskeepsemma: you know what assembly is but not a SDK? ;)11:16
emmayes i know what it is.11:16
emmanot how to do it or anything.11:16
XTLAssembly is the magic word that makes everything faster.11:16
wizaemma: bugs and since linux supports n+1 architectures ans assembly is per architecture, so that would kinda add code a lot11:16
johnxemma, you have a very interesting collection of knowledge :)11:16
wizaXTL: only if you compiler is shite :)11:17
emmai like to visit channels like this and chat with people and get some idea about things.11:17
XTLemma: A regular Socrates :)11:17
* qwerty12 tried learning ARM ASM once, I gave up when I realised the Russians had the hold on that market :>11:17
emmahehehe that's a nice thing to say.11:17
* moontiger likes asm11:18
XTLI guess 8051 is the only chip I really know asm for. FSVO really.11:18
emmais assembly code itself per architecture or it has to be compiled for the architecture?11:19
moontigerdifferent for each chip11:19
moontigerno compiler11:19
moontigerjust an assembler11:19
emmaoh yeah sorry11:19
emmaassembler, i did know that.11:19
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emmaso each architecture has it's own assembler?11:20
moontigerech chip has its own instruction set ... hence its own asm "language"11:20
emmain other words you could not just assemble assembly source code you have to write the code taylored to the machine?11:20
johnxemma, exactly11:20
emmahm, that is kind of rough.11:20
moontigerc == cross platform asm11:20
emmai see.11:21
emmathat makes c quite handy.11:21
wizaand that is the reason for using higher level languages11:21
Khertanc == bullshit app that 90% suffer from overflaw and possible exploit11:21
moontigerespecially now that optimizing compilers can do a better job than most humans11:21
johnxyup. C was *invented* so that Unix could be re-written in it11:21
moontigerkhertan .... as opposed to what?11:22
t_s_oKhertan: and then you have c++ that bumps that to 99% ;)11:22
timelyjohnx: yeah, quite unfortunate, os/2 just worked..11:23
moontigerwhat would you suggest os's are written in then?11:23
t_s_opython? :P11:23
* qwerty12 guesses python. (Not personally, me thinks C pwns python)11:23
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KhertanGOTO++ !11:24
qwerty12or BRAINFUCK rather11:24
emmabranfuck is high in fibre.11:24
joyiousHi, does N810 support ALSA or OSS ?11:24
qwerty12emma: hehe11:24
XTLjoyious: Alsa, yes11:24
XTLAt least in some ways11:24
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johnxit supports alsa if you squint and turn your head to the left11:25
t_s_oqwerty12: i was wondering who would bring up that one. even assembly is easier that brainfuck...11:25
XTLUnlambda ftw11:25
qwerty12t_s_o: hehe, but brainfuck has the name going for it :P11:25
t_s_ooh and emma, there already is a os written in lisp. ever heard of emacs? ;)11:25
XTLReal os's are written with switch panels anyway.11:26
qwerty12A real os has a method of making it say hello world11:27
moontigert_s_o, hahaha11:27
joyiousXTL: but I can not open the alsa devices11:27
qwerty12If you *REALLY REALLY* hate someone, sending them a CD with LMOS is a way to get them back11:27
t_s_oXTL: and stored on punchcards?11:27
XTLI thought emacs was written in C (fsvo emacs) and the apps are in kind of lisp11:27
moontigerjoyious, did you unlock it forst?11:27
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joyiousmoontiger:unlock ?11:28
XTLt_s_o: That's the high level interface, yes.11:28
johnxjoyious, what exactly are you trying to do?11:28
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joyiousjohnx:  I want write a recorder there, but i can not open the device11:28
moontigerkhertan, is there any reason adding an image to a button would crash the tablet?11:28
joyiousmoontiger:How to unlock that ?11:29
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moontigerjoyious, ignore me i was joking ... sorry11:29
qwerty12joyious: someone tried with that I think but didn't have much luck, you may wish to look at the code of instead11:29
t_s_oXTL: i think your right about emacs btw, seems it has a lisp interpreter written in C and then everything else above written in lisp...11:29
johnxjoyious, alsa is a little strange on the tablets. I don't know much about alsa from a programming point of view. It might be helpful to look at the source to some app that deals with sound11:29
t_s_othats specifically the gnu version btw...11:29
johnxmaybe maemo recorder?
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t_s_ostill, the joke about emacs being a os written in lisp never grows old ;)11:30
XTLOr you might see if gstreamer will work for you11:30
joyiousthanks guys, i'll take a look at that code11:30
Khertanmoontiger: crash the tablet ?11:32
qwerty12~curse hp internal card readers. this is my second one and it still stalls with a SD card and a memory stick >.<11:32
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, hp internal card readers. this is my second one and it still stalls with a SD card and a memory stick >.< !11:32
Khertanmoontiger: or just maemo-launcher due to a crash of an applet ?11:32
moontigeryah ... the screen flashes white and goes goofy ... prolly the launcher11:32
Khertanyep so it s maemo-launcher which crash11:33
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qwerty12wouldn't that be hildon-desktop?11:33
Khertanand restart with default pref11:33
moontigerwell ... just from adding an image to a button??11:33
Khertanmaybe an error in code11:33
joyiousjohnx: does maemo recoder has code there ?11:33
moontigerhmmmmmmm code works fine without image on button11:33
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qwerty12joyious: yes, it has a svn11:33
timelymoontiger: a number of apps on the device are lifeguarded11:33
Khertanmoontiger: how do you add your image on buton11:33
moontigeradd 2 lines of code and bang!11:33
timelyif they crash too many times, the device will reboot11:33
Khertantimely: really ?11:34
timelythe primary life-guarded app is hildon-desktop11:34
moontigerKhertan, create an image , set from file ,,, add to button11:34
johnxjoyious, did you look at the svn repository? click on scm11:34
timelywhich hosts task navigator plugins, home plugins, and status area plugins11:34
Khertantimely: so this explain my sudden reboot :)11:34
timelythey're all one process11:34
moontigerworks on the desktop with pygtk11:34
Khertanhow do you add your image on this button ?11:35
qwerty12timely: Is hildon-desktop lifeguarded? I didn't know it was started from dsmetool, I just thought it had a safe-mode which can be disabled with a simple configure switch11:35
timelyKhertan: get a core dump (rich core preferred)11:35
joyiousjohnx:Oh, i'll try thanks11:35
timelyqwerty12: open xterm and kill -4 it :)11:35
XTLDoes it only crash/reboot on the tablet.. How about sb?11:35
XTLMaybe you'd see what happens there.11:36
timelyXTL: sb doesn't have dsme which is what deals w/ life guarding11:36
qwerty12timely: I would do if I had a charged tablet but you must be right :)11:36
timelybah, charge your tablet11:36
XTLtimely: Exactly. You might see the actual problem instead of consequences11:36
KhertanXTL: can't test on sb due to qemu / python on sb / on other things related with that11:36
qwerty12timely: sure, when the charger arrives :D11:36
XTLKhertan: I guessed.11:36
qwerty12timely: I broke my charger when I was untangling the headphones from it :/11:36
timelyqwerty12: my charger broke @ whistler11:37
timelythankfully a friend removed the pin from my device11:37
* johnx thinks his upstairs neighbor just fell off a ladder or his fridge tipped over or something O_o11:37
XTL"stupid cables.. HULK SMASH!"11:37
timelyotherwise i had an expensive unchargable phone :)11:37
qwerty12heh, I'm pretty lucky, it's just the charger that is broken, thankfully, it survived my stupid experiement with an old nokia charger + new connector :/11:38
Stskeepsqwerty12: does rootsh really provide "sudo gainroot"?11:38
Stskeepsor just "rootsh" command?11:38
qwerty12Stskeeps: sudo gainroot as well11:38
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t_s_oand "root"11:39
t_s_olove that one ;)11:39
qwerty12the first version I uploaded (1.1) didn't but that was a test as it was my first upload to extras, 1.2 + 1.3 provided sudo gainroot :)11:39
qwerty12the sudo gainroot and root things weren't done by me, I took them from ag2's easyroot, I only uploaded rootsh to extras for the demand of a sudo gainroot app in extras :)11:39
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t_s_ohmm, msn spam. whats next...11:40
qwerty12rootsh isn't by me either, I left it packaged because it provided a sudo like command and it also let someone get root easily if they messed up sudoers11:41
pupnik This Mortal Coil - Another Day11:41
usicowdo desktop widgets like homeIP use my battery more than if I had no widgets on the desktop?11:42
timelyusicow: rss reader for example will kill your battery :)11:43
johnxStskeeps, testing the deblet install on a completely clean tablet (diablo+ssu1)11:43
qwerty12usicow: yes, those ones are in python which isn't exactly known for conservative cpu usage and they poll at certain intervals11:44
qwerty12cool applets none the less :)11:44
usicowqwerty12: hehe.. yeah it looks cool. So what would be the right language to write one in? Maybe I could do it.. but Im a java developer.11:45
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Khertanusicow: no11:45
Khertantimely: false !!!!11:45
Khertanqwerty: false too !!!!11:45
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qwerty12usicow: C I guess, python isn't too bad either11:46
Khertanpython home applet don't wake up the device when this one odle11:46
Khertanand refresh only when coming back to desktop11:46
qwerty12CPU Usage still sux with python11:46
Stskeepsjohnx: alright - it will prolly give a error in application manager, if you can find some kind of log saying -why- apt-get install deblet-installer can do it but appl manager can't, i'm all ears :P11:46
Khertanso they don't use cpu until you stay on the desktop while the device is wake up11:46
Stskeepsi really dont want to have to clone my chinook :P11:46
timelyKhertan: what if your desktop is visible all the time? :)11:47
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qwerty12Stskeeps: use mtd-tools and make a flashable jffs2 image :>11:47
timelyhaving items on your desktop does cost something, nothing is truly free11:47
Khertantimely: yes it cost memory mainly :)11:47
Stskeepsjohnx: at the same time im running latest deblet installer on chinook right now as well11:47
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Khertanit s true that the first version in chinook draining battery ... but this is no more the case11:48
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usicowok.. thanks Khertan and timely.. I'll install it :)11:48
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Stskeepsjohnx: just hang on a second while i update the svn base packages snapshot :P11:49
johnxStskeeps, I don't think app manager lets you replace libs that are included with the firmware11:49
johnxStskeeps, do you need that version of libglade for some reason?11:49
Stskeepsjohnx: lovely.. someone should make a roxterm + zenity that builds towards 2.4 then11:49
Khertantimely: if you stay on desktop it ll eat cpu as other applet to refresh the data ... but when your device stay in sleep ... no refresh11:49
* Stskeeps glances at qwerty12 with begging eyes for roxterm11:49
johnxStskeeps, I see. ick. does it not build with 2.4?11:49
qwerty12Stskeeps: shit, you have a problem with the roxterm? I think I had libglade from extras installed then11:50
Stskeepsqwerty12: yeah, me too, i first noticed it when diablo people started complaining11:50
Stskeepsjohnx: no clue, just lifted debs off qwerty12 and bundyo(sp)11:50
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timelyKhertan: usicow didn't specify use case11:50
johnxif you look in the app mgr log it complains "ignoring version from wrong domain: libglade"11:51
timelythe general correct answer for the entire realm is "yes"11:51
qwerty12IIRC, I think I had to compile it against the newer one, I don't think it compiled against 2.4, I'll have another go. if I can't get the latest version to compile against 2.4, I'll go back a few versions :)11:51
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johnxStskeeps, can we do without roxterm? osso-xterm doesn't work?11:52
Stskeepsjohnx: osso-xterm is shite when it comes to curses applications :P11:52
Stskeepsin roxterm i had no problems whatsoever with del->^H and generally fitting things on screen11:52
qwerty12Stskeeps: "This is no port, just a straight compile with a bunch of needed libs " - from the zenity page, you could probably package your own version11:53
moontigerKhertan, they only use battery if they actually DO something yes? just having a static display of something does nothing correct?11:53
johnxsadness :/11:53
Stskeepsjohnx: basically .install doesnt work but apt-get install deblet-installer works afterwards - but good that we found that error11:53
Stskeepsqwerty12: alright.. i'll look into it. i wonder if simply modifying Depends: would do the trick for both11:53
johnxStskeeps, anything else I should test while I have a fresh tablet?11:54
Stskeepsjohnx: nah, that's the current problem i think11:54
Stskeepsjohnx: well.. one thing maybe11:54
johnxsure :)11:54
qwerty12Stskeeps: wouldn't gxmessage work?11:54
Stskeepsqwerty12: it's not flexible enough for my stuff11:55
usicowhow do I remove these things that look like advertisements from the desktop?11:55
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usicowtheres the tutorial applet, and something that looks like ads..11:55
qwerty12Stskeeps: Ah :(11:55
qwerty12usicow: tap the menu thing next to the word home and choose select applets and untick web applet and tableteer afaik11:55
usicowqwerty12: ahh thanks11:56
qwerty12fuck, the roxterm has .modfied.deb on the end which means I repacked it, and I can't remember what I changed :/11:57
timelyusicow: yes ads :)11:57
johnxqwerty12, break out diff :D11:57
timelyqwerty12: dpkg-deb extract them and compare :)11:57
Stskeepsqwerty12: i altered your roxterm deb as well i think.. not sure with what11:57
qwerty12johnx, timely: good ideas, thank you11:57
johnxunix tools win all over the place :)11:58
qwerty12Now that I know a bit of GDK, I should remap the buttons on Roxterm while I've got the chance11:58
Stskeepsjohnx: dpkg --remove deblet-installer, apt-get update, apt-get install zenity - it didn't install libglade 2.6 right?11:58
Stskeepsbefore this11:58
Stskeepsjust wanting to see if it runs on libglade 2.4 if i fuck it's depends: :P11:59
johnxStskeeps, nothing installed yet. I'll try that.11:59
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* moontiger has had enough of fighting with image button and toolbars for one day11:59
moontigernn all11:59
Stskeepstimely: my coffe haven't had its effect yet12:00
t_s_ohmm, after seeing the safari browser on video in the blackberry bold vs iphone shootout, i can see why people like it :(12:00
timelyt_s_o: like which?12:01
johnxStskeeps, I usually don't bother with grammar correction...but your original spelling had an interesting reading :)12:01
qwerty12Stskeeps: - I don't see libglade mentioned there :/. I have a feeling its for the configuration program :/12:01
qwerty12yep, bingo:12:02
qwerty12[sbox-DIABLO_ARMEL: ~] > ldd roxterm-config | grep glade12:02 => /usr/lib/ (0x00000000)12:02
qwerty12Stskeeps: you should be able to safely remove libglade from the depends line, just delete roxterm-config as well12:02
Stskeepsqwerty12: okay, i just wonder if it works sanely with 2.4 as well - which is next thing johnx will test if zenity works ;)12:03
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johnxyup...getting ssh installed for root access so I can use apt :)12:03
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timelyt_s_o: depressing12:05
qwerty12Stskeeps: it would be nice if gxmessage worked, then you could base64 encode it into your preinst which is provided by default on all chinook and diablo tablets12:05
t_s_otimely: hmm?12:06
Stskeepsqwerty12: well gxmessage does work as a static binary.. but it doesnt give all the features i need :P12:07
qwerty12heh :)12:07
johnxStskeeps, win. zenity will install without libglade...just roxterm now12:08
Stskeepsjohnx: does it run, too?12:08
timelythe bold12:08
timelyare they sure that it's actually *usin* wifi to download?12:08
t_s_oi guess what annoys me the most about microb is that even when the loading bar goes away, its likely to pop back and work some more...12:08
johnxStskeeps, will find out in a sec12:08
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t_s_otimely: it was found not to, a later video shows it with12:09
t_s_onot that it helped much imo12:09
johnxat least the zooming in microb got ironed out12:09
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Stskeepsjohnx: zenity --calendar should do the trick i guess12:09
t_s_ojohnx: mostly, there is some delay between hitting zoom and the actual zooming12:09
t_s_oi also keep seeing the browser not rally grasping that it should go full screen while its working on a page and i hit the button...12:10
johnxStskeeps, will test that. --warning works12:10
johnxt_s_o, it's so much better than it used to be though...12:10
Stskeepsjohnx: i'll go butcher roxterm then12:10
johnxwow...zenity is pretty cool12:11
qwerty12roxterm should do without the -config app :D12:11
t_s_ojohnx: that it is12:11
johnxcalendar works12:11
timelyt_s_o would you rather the browser not show the load indicator?12:11
t_s_o <- someone showing bold doing a proper wifi load12:11
t_s_otimely: i didnt say that. but i would like it to show is for as long as its working on the page at least. having it pop in and out of view makes me wonder if its really finished12:12
Stskeepsjohnx: apt-get update; apt-get install roxterm12:12
timelyt_s_o: so the problem is...12:13
timelya  page can do:12:13
johnxt_s_o, that's pretty painfully slow.12:13
t_s_ojohnx: im guessing its choking on javascript...12:13
timely<html onload=foo> function foo(){setTimeout(bar)}12:13
timelyat what point do you call the page "done"?12:14
johnxt_s_o, well javascript is a pretty core part of web surfing...12:14
t_s_ojohnx: sadly...12:14
t_s_otimely: i can see the problem12:14
johnxt_s_o, were you one of those people against pictures on the internet?12:14
Stskeepswe should bring gopher back12:15
t_s_ojohnx: well they have their uses. but i can survive having them turned off ;)12:15
t_s_othat is, if i have some way to selectively load them12:15
* qwerty12 can't with all the captchas now12:15
johnxright, that's what I thought :)12:15
timelyt_s_o: i really don't have a solution... i mean, we could cheat and pretend the page *isn't* done loading12:15
timelybut what if it was setInterval instead of setTimeout?12:15
timelythen the page is "never" done "loading"12:16
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timelywe could also just ignore any "load" stuff after the page's initial "load"12:16
johnxStskeeps, works. I'll remove roxterm, zenity, the deps and the repos and try the .install from scratch just for grins12:16
MangoFusionarrgh1!! JavaScript!!! Responsive web apps!!! It burns!!!12:16
t_s_otimely: as in, not show the bar for any ajax related stuff loading in the background?12:17
timelyalternatively, what if the initial setTimeout is for 5mins and is designed to log you out?12:17
timelyis it done loading, or only done after it's logged you out :)12:17
t_s_oi would say its loaded when the html is parsed and the layout is is correctly in place. but then its that pesky ajax again...12:18
timelywe could just remove any progress indicators :)12:19
johnxand ajax support, just to be fair12:19
t_s_onow that would be "interesting"12:19
t_s_owhat is it, am i that annoying today?12:19
Stskeepsjohnx: oki :)12:19
timelyjohnx: we could remove support for users12:20
timelythey aren't really that important12:20
johnxt_s_o, I should have added a :P to that. I was just being snarky, not mean12:20
t_s_oheh, i found myself surfing on my 770 with javascript off in opera more often then not so...12:20
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timelyi did too12:21
timelyi highly recommend it actually :)12:21
t_s_obut then i would love to show flash the middle finger as well12:21
johnxt_s_o, I actually have pic loading turned off on my phone (opera mini). But I get charged by the packet...12:21
johnxt_s_o, I'll agree with you about flash. (&$% that $%*&12:21
timelyt_s_o: i do that too :)12:21
t_s_ojohnx: same here about opera mini. and i also do it in microb when im out and about and tether via the phone12:22
t_s_othe usability of some forums actually improve when i turn images of, as i then get the alternate link text to click on instead ;)12:22
johnxStskeeps, grrr...ok. Still having problems with app mgr and I don't know why :/12:22
Stskeepsjohnx: anything in log?12:23
johnxnothing about the deblet repo...12:23
johnxI'll try and track it down12:24
johnxStskeeps, hang on a sec. what section is deblet in?12:24
timelyt_s_o: half the time i have images off too :)12:24
Stskeepsjohnx: err.. not sure i have a section in the deb12:25
johnxStskeeps, ok then, got the next problem: The section needs to be changed to "user/something"12:26
johnxright now it's in "base"12:26
johnxmaybe by default?12:26
Stskeepsokay, alright, got any suggestions for a good section?12:26
johnxqwerty12, any ideas? maybe user/Other?12:26
johnxor user/Utilities12:26
qwerty12johnx: section for which package?12:27
Stskeepsdeblet intaller12:27
johnxuser/qwerty12-is-awesome ?12:27
qwerty12lol, why?12:28
qwerty12(i'll take it as a joke :D)12:28
johnxdunno. seems as valid as any other section. :D12:28
Stskeepsi'll put it in user/other12:28
johnxthere's user/Boingo user/utils user/utilities and user/Utilities ... and this is just including Extras12:28
qwerty12You could use user/debian-installer12:28
johnxmight be nice to do Other instead of other12:29
johnxthat way app mgr won't list yet another section12:29
* qwerty12 never uses sections. All ftw.12:30
Stskeepsjohnx: moved to user/Other and refreshed rep copy of installerdeb12:30
* johnx tries again12:30
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johnx"Application packages missing: binutils, libslang2, e2fsprogs, debootstrap, libslang2 (>= 2.0.6-4osso1)"12:35
johnxI assume because they aren't in Section: user/* either12:35
Stskeepsthey're in extras though12:35
johnxmaybe it's time to just tell people click the .install file nad go run apt-get12:35
Stskeepsdiablo, too12:35
Stskeepsis diablo app manager just more picky or is it just me?12:36
johnxoh, it's really freakin' picky12:36
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Stskeepswhat does apt-cache policy binutils say?12:36
qwerty12it's more picky. to install apps without user/ --> Red Pill12:36
Stskeepsqwerty12: even with dependancies?12:36
Stskeepsin non-user12:36
johnxactually binutils isn't showing up for me from apt12:36
* johnx tracks it down12:36
qwerty12Stskeeps: Got a point there actually, you shouldn't need red pill12:37
johnxbinutils is in the sdk repository, isn't it?12:37
qwerty12johnx: it's not in diablo extras or extras-devel, its in sdk repo12:37
* johnx sighs12:38
johnxcan binutils even be legitimately installed along with busybox?12:38
qwerty12johnx: you'll have fun adding it. It took me a while to figure out the right entries :/
johnxqwerty12, thanks. I've been figuring out apt-get "deb" lines for 10 years though. saves me the trouble though... :D12:39
qwerty12johnx: you may be able to, busybox's conflict line didn't list binutils12:40
qwerty12johnx: yeah, I'm a n00b at this :D :)12:40
johnxwe all have our areas of expertise :) You've got me beat in plenty of areas12:40
johnxand you certainly have a lot more clue now than I did at your age12:41
pupniki have everyone beat in the art of breaking own hand punching solid objects12:41
qwerty12johnx: :). Anyway, I did a quick check, binutils doesn't conflict with busybox12:41
qwerty12pupnik: ouch :(12:42
johnxqwerty12, cool, then12:42
johnxpupnik, you can have keep the title. I don't want to compete O_o12:42
pupnikfreaky music anyone?
johnxalright, debootstrap in extras-devel and the rest in the sdk repo12:43
qwerty12Quick question, is SDLK_ESCAPE correct or SDLK_ESC? I did google but now I'm more confused :/12:45
johnxmy sources say SDLK_ESCAPE12:46
qwerty12Yeah, I've got '_ESCAPE here too, thanks#12:47
johnxsure. thank the guy who wrote ltris :)12:47
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Stskeepswhat's extras-devel again? stuff bound to go into extras at some point?12:49
Stskeepsor development extras12:49
johnxtesting area12:49
chellihi, does anyone know how to (re-)set the admin password of mailinglists on garage? (i am not able to find the passwords for the gnumeric mailinglists on garage anymore) ;-)12:49
johnxStskeeps, stuff that could end up in extras eventually ... unless it never stabilizes or the dev doesn't care12:50
Stskeepsjohnx: so you found all the packages in which repos? if i have to add them to .install file12:50
johnxone sec. I'm making sure this will actually work first...12:52
yacoobI guess I need to read the manual.12:54
yacoobI can't work out when does the device goes to sleep, and when it doesn't.12:54
johnxyacoob, it might be a little different than you're used to12:55
yacoobAlso, going into offline mode and then back makes my n810 unable to connect to anything radio-related (both bt and wifi)12:55
johnxit puts individual part to sleep when they're not in use12:55
johnxyacoob, that second part doesn't sound too good12:55
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* johnx adds another repository in search of deps12:58
Stskeeps10 bucks it'll be just as insane as the chinook .install12:59
qwerty12Stskeeps: Can I have that bet with you in an hour when the irc logs are updated? :P12:59
johnxbets 10 it will be worse...12:59
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yacoobjohnx, tbh, I haven't played around with it much, but I've made it go to offline mode yesterday in the evening, and in the morning it wasn't able to connect to wireless.13:00
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* johnx kries. debootstrap isn't in diablo extras-devel yet...13:04
qwerty12johnx: trust me, you will be crying for *ages*13:04
johnxqwerty12, nah. I'll get debian working and everything will go in one or two repos13:05
Stskeepsjohnx: ?13:05
Stskeepsoh, chinook13:05
qwerty12Stskeeps: it takes *ages* for the Packages file to update though :/13:06
Stskeepsi consider to put debootstrap in the deblet repo just for the hell of it..13:06
Stskeepsthat'd make some things easier i gues13:06
Stskeepsjohnx: i've added debootstrap to deblet repo, does this help?13:08
johnxStskeeps, yes. lots13:08
Stskeepssec, wait for svn to finish comitting13:08
johnxreally, we should poke whoever put it up to extras-devel and tell them to upload again for diablo...13:08
johnxor however that works ...13:08
Stskeepsthat was the vncviewer debian guy13:08
Stskeeps(and we just reached r100 in deblet svn)13:09
Mekjohnx: can't anybody with upload rights just get the chinook version and upload it for diable?13:09
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qwerty12^ + 113:09
johnxMek, you're asking the wrong person. Can they?13:09
Mekjohnx: yes, they can :P13:09
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* qwerty12 whistles and walks away13:10
johnxalright, I'll test debootstrap on a fresh diablo install now and if it works I'll poke someone with upload privs to do something about it :)13:10
Stskeepsdid you get the list of repos needed?13:11
johnxStskeeps, close13:11
Stskeepsjohnx: it should most definately work.. it's _all, so13:11
Stskeeps(it's a shell script)13:11
johnxI'm testing if this assembly of repos works13:11
johnxyay! it's willing to go through with it!13:12
Meksubmitted to the diable autobuilder13:12
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qwerty12arghh, libsdl-gfx1.2-dev isn't in diablo extras13:13
johnxhere's the list of repos that ended up working:
johnxsooo...just five13:14
Stskeepsjohnx: is extras-devel needed?13:16
johnxuhm... let me confirm13:16
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johnxI thought I needed it for e2fsprogs13:18
johnxStskeeps, but now I don't even know :(13:18
johnxhi _julian_13:18
_julian_I just set up a maemo sdk and installed the qt4 packages. actually I can run qt-maemo-example, but it won't use the maemo look and feel. how can I achieve that?13:18
_julian_on my n800 it does13:18
qwerty12try running with prefixed13:19
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usicowwhats the difference between a catalogue and a repository?13:19
Stskeepsjohnx: updated13:19
_julian_qwerty12: cool that does the trick. thanks (c: - what does that script do?13:19
Stskeepsjohnx: (without extras-devel), so we can see if it blows up13:20
johnxStskeeps, erm...too late. I let it install :)13:20
Stskeepshehe, okay13:20
qwerty12_julian_: sources the which has variables for sapwood (the theme server), dbus etc. I have to use on my N800 when I'm running programs as root13:21
Stskeepsany other guinea pigs running diablo without extras-devel who want to try out a .install file? ;>13:21
_julian_qwerty12: cool, thanks (c:13:21
qwerty12np :)13:21
qwerty12Stskeeps: do I have to use your bootmenu? I'm quite fond of the customisations I have done to mine13:21
johnxStskeeps, I can confirm that extras devel is where e2fsprogs comes from13:22
Stskeepsqwerty12: not to test .install13:22
Stskeepsjohnx: alright, i'll add it then13:22
johnxStskeeps, is that more repos than for chinook?13:22
Mekbtw, :P13:22
johnxthanks Mek :D13:23
_julian_qwerty12: do you use qt4 on maemo?13:23
qwerty12_julian_: no :)13:23
_julian_maybe some else? (c:13:23
Mek_julian_: I do (in fact I'm somewhat working on packaging kde4 stuff as well)13:24
_julian_I run the SDK with Xephyr, is it possible to send the full-screen key to the apps somehow?13:25
_julian_Mek: ah cool, do you accidently use eclipse and tried qt+eclispse-integration+maemo sdk?13:25
johnxF6 on your keyboard?13:25
_julian_johnx: thanks (c:13:25
Mek_julian_: no, I haven't tried that13:25
johnxdid it work?13:25
qwerty12Here's a useful document about what N800 key does what:
_julian_johnx: yep (c:13:26
johnxgood deal. the other F# keys will send other signals...but I don't remember13:27
johnx...including zoom+ zoom- and menu13:27
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qwerty12jott is my hero for those boost packages13:29
* Mek agrees with that :)13:30
qwerty12:). You don't happen to know what provides boost/filesystem.hpp by any chance? I've got libboost-filesystem-dev_1.33.1-10_armel.deb, libboost-filesystem1.33.1_1.33.1-10_armel.deb and libboost-dev_1.33.1-10_armel.deb installed but to no avail :/13:31
_julian_cool my app runs on the n800. only graphic effects are a bit slow... (actually did a listview with smooth scrolling, but that is a bit scratchy on n800)13:31
_julian_Mek: you have experiences with the n800 performance in qt?13:33
Mek_julian_: no, I only have an n81013:33
_julian_Mek: is that one much faster then n800?13:34
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johnxthey're exactly the same CPU...13:34
qwerty12shit, filesystem.hpp is in 1.34 and later, jott's packaged 1.3313:34
_julian_then I guess I need to figure out some way to make it run faster...13:36
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Khertan_julian_: what does your app ?13:37
_julian_Khertan: it's going to be a remote for a music server13:38
johnx_julian_, are you talking about a fullscreen draggable list?13:38
_julian_johnx: not completely fullscreen, but a big part of the scree13:38
Khertanjohnx: full screen list can be easily made, i ve do it one with edje :)13:39
Khertanbut ... i'm not enough lazy to try to make a real ui with edje13:39
johnxjust realize that there are some unfixable performance issues with trying to update large parts of the screen at a high framerate13:39
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johnxwell, they're fixable but not if you want to use a premade toolkit like qt or gtk, AFAIK13:40
_julian_actually I use code from here:
* qwerty12 gets to packaging boost 1.3513:41
Mekqwerty12: good luck :)13:41
qwerty12Mek: thanks, I think I'll need it :D13:41
_julian_additionally I use some code to get a smooth drill-down effect13:41
qwerty12I would have liked to have used jott's packages but I need filesystem.hpp :/13:42
johnxStskeeps, how up to date are svn snapshots?13:43
_julian_that for I use this:
_julian_both examples should easily compile on maemo sdk if you want to try it13:43
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Stskeepsjohnx: quite,it should run daily13:57
Stskeepsonly download snapshot works without svn or whatever, so13:57
johnxyeah, no svn for diablo yet14:00
johnxanyways, install is running along quite merrily :)14:00
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johnxah, an earthquake, right on schedule14:00
johnxwonder where that one was...14:02
crashanddieanyone know why a package I sent to autobuilder yesterday around midnight still doesn't show up some 12 hours later ?14:03
qwerty12Someone could upload to diablo extras14:03
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qwerty12just out of question, if you do that, do you change the maintainers name?14:03
qwerty12crashanddie: autobuilder is slowwwwww14:03
qwerty12the deb will be there but Packages won't be updated14:03
crashanddieyeah, but 12 hours ?14:03
johnxyou should see the wait for the autobuilder for debian :)14:03
crashanddieI mean, I should at least have a log somewhere14:03
qwerty12crashanddie: I waited for about 2 days14:03
nifaalqwerty12: are you the same guy as on internettablettalk?14:04
qwerty12nifaal: yes14:04
qwerty12but unfortunately, gtg14:04
qwerty12sorry :(14:04
qwerty12bye all14:04
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jottcrashanddie: which package?14:04
crashanddiejott, cloudreader14:04
jottand where did you upload it to? :)14:04
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crashanddiedput -f diablo-extras-builder cloudreader*.changes14:05
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crashanddiedput -f chinook-extras-builder cloudreader*.changes14:05
nifaalI saw people changing window manager, how is that possible (without installing debian)?14:05
jottcrashanddie: usually does not take that long to see the package in the queue :/14:06
crashanddiejott, yeah, that's what I figured14:06
jottcrashanddie: maybe you did not sign it properly?14:06
crashanddieI think I did14:06
crashanddieand even if I didn't, I should be told so14:06
jottmaybe just try it again :)14:07
crashanddiedebsign -k2CD24267 cloudreader_1.0.2-1_armel.changes14:07
jottyeah looks good.14:07
jott(if that's the same key autobuilder has :P14:07
crashanddiethat might be a problem then :D14:07
crashanddiewhen I created my garage account, I had a borked debian-pooped key14:08
crashanddie(the SSH one)14:08
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crashanddiejott, I think I changed my pgp key also around that time, and I can't change that (I just updated the SSH key)14:14
crashanddiejott, so I guess I'm stuck until X-Fade returns14:14
crashanddieautobuilder really ought to be more verbose about these things14:15
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crashanddiejott, you wouldn't know if there's a bug about this somewhere ?14:15
jottno, not really.14:16
crashanddiefound it14:16
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crashanddieKhertan, hah ! You filed the bug about no feedback when autobuilder fails !14:18
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crashanddieoh no, you just voted for it, my bad14:18
Edulixok so anyone knows how to convert from ILBC to mp3 or wav or whatever? ILBC is the default encoding in maemo recoder and I want to listen to some of my recordings in my computer14:18
yacoobjohnx, fwiw, I've just tested this offline behaviour I was describing earlier, and this time it works fine.14:19
* yacoob is curious how often do you people charge your tablets?14:19
crashanddieEdulix, can you play the file in mplayer ?14:19
crashanddieyacoob, depends what I'm doing with it14:19
jottcrashanddie: you could also contact ed bartosh, he is in charge of the builder. maybe just send him your public key and politely ask him if he can update it.14:19
johnxyacoob, once a day14:19
crashanddieyacoob, when I'm developing heavily, I just leave it plugged in, as the screen stays lit that way14:20
jotti'm not sure who else has the right to do so.14:20
johnxerrr...I guess the right answer though is: it's plugged in when I'm at home14:20
Edulixcrashanddie: no14:20
Edulixlibavformat file format detected.14:20
Edulix[mp3 @ 0xb8a560]Could not find codec parameters (Audio: mp1, 160 kb/s)14:20
EdulixLAVF_header: av_find_stream_info() failed14:20
jottisn't there something like a mail addy? :)14:20
_julian_hmm, thinking about the best way to transfer cd-cover images from the music-server to maemo to display them in the remote... maybe I should run a mini-http-server on the music server14:21
_julian_or has someone a better idea?14:21
yacoobI wonder how long will battery last for geocaching (bt on all the time, screen on/off, depending on situation)14:21
jottthe address exists atleast and is used by the builder :)14:21
_julian_the actual controlling is done through a tcpsocket with a text-based protocol14:21
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Stskeepsjohnx: any impressions on the zenity interface?14:22
lbt_julian_: have you seen the squeezebox duet?14:22
crashanddieyacoob, what drains the battery is: poor wifi signal and high traffic, high bluetooth traffic, screen on continuously14:22
johnxStskeeps, looks nice. a little bit of a pain with the default gtk theme14:22
jottand ad-hoc wifi networks14:22
_julian_lbt: no, not really14:22
crashanddieyacoob, I did a benchmark, leaving the GPS on the whole time, but the screen off, and the battery lasted for some 14 hours14:22
Stskeepsjohnx: yeah, - i should look into how to make it uses maemo theme14:23
jott(which imply "high traffic" :)14:23
johnxStskeeps, it should just inherit it I would think14:23
trenkajott: Ed says, this is to  Niels14:23
lbtit's interesting for what you describe, and, AFAIK, it has an open source backend14:23
johnxStskeeps, do other things launched inside roxterm not pickup the maemo theme?14:23
lbtit's squeezebox related14:23
jotttrenka: would be good to have some or so for support requests :)14:23
yacoobcrashanddie, that's good sign :) I'll test it over weekend.14:24
lbtthe music server controls the remote though14:24
_julian_lbt: ah looks interesting.  - actually I am doing the remote for a very high end audio server which my company builds. it's targeted for customers who pay a few thousand euros for a cd-player...14:24
yacoobbtw, is there some battery tracking tool? I used to have something like that for palmOS, I was able to see what was the usage of power over time.14:24
Stskeepsjohnx: not sure.. but it does sudo to root in a fancy way14:24
_julian_the remote is just some "play around" right now -evaluating if it might be worth to make it fully grown14:24
johnxStskeeps, well that would probably do it :)14:25
lbt_julian_: well, you're probably aware of the logitech/slimdevices stuff - similar14:25
Edulixoh and is there any way to use the nokia n810 integrated webcam remotely in another computer as a webcam? or should I start developing support for that by myself hehe :P14:25
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_julian_lbt: yeah...14:26
lbtwas what I was thinking of - which I guess is functionally in the area?14:27
johnxEdulix, look up gstmpg (or is it gstmjpg?) or similar for a start14:27
trenkajott: that's not a builder related issue, it's about an upload14:27
lbtunless you're multimedia (Myth...)14:27
johnxEdulix, other people have definitely had a start at it, at least...14:27
crashanddiejohnx & jott and anyone else, look at the damned video14:27
jotttrenka: hm yeah indeed.14:28
johnxcrashanddie, ok (will I get rick rolled?)14:28
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_julian_lbt: well yes it's kind of in that area out server is too... just that we pretend to still have better audio quality (c;14:28
yacoobbtw, if anyone also wants to keep his/her passwords and encrypted notes in itt, NoteCase is the way to go.14:29
_julian_lbt: only german though14:29
johnxcrashanddie, that looks kinda neat :D14:29
Stskeepsjohnx: you'll run in in a syntax error in the end when installing - not fatal, just doesnt set up the bootmenu item properly14:30
Stskeepsjust ran into it myself14:30
Stskeeps(it has already finished installing at that point)14:30
Stskeepsit's basically making a deblet.item like the one on my alpha test itt post14:32
Stskeepsand running refresh_bootmenu.d14:32
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crashanddiejohnx, thanks :)14:32
johnxcrashanddie, where are you getting the tags from?14:33
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BinkyAsking questions still being free, true?14:34
crashanddieI'm afraid not14:34
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jottyou have to use paypal now.14:34
johnxBinky, of course it's free :)14:34
jottjohnx: sssh! don't corrupt our deal :P14:35
crashanddieIt's 20p per question, you can get a complete starter pack including 100 questions, 3 trolls and a ban evasion pass for only 20 quid ! Order now !14:35
jottcrashanddie: looks interesting :)14:35
BinkyNo thanks, free, do i have to wait 45 seconds before asking an an hour beetween question?14:36
lcukone hour between obtaining an answer for the previous question14:36
BinkyOk... But if i pay there are more chances of getting answers...14:36
crashanddieYes, a limit of 24 questions per day is necessary to keep the channel clean and usable for our Premium users14:36
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lcukcould someone direct me to the platinum rewards channel?14:37
lcuk(and i hope that question doesnt need support contract to be answered)14:37
johnxlcuk, please post your customer number to the channel. In your case it's the same as your credit card number :D14:38
BinkyAnyway, i'll ask... If i make two 1 GBs partitions in a 2GB mmc card, where will the 770 mount both partitions?14:38
johnxit will probably only automount the first14:39
Binkymedia/mmc1 and /media/mmc214:39
BinkyOh ok14:39
lcukoi i have paid - i paid in kinetic scrolling cross licensing :P14:39
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BinkyBut i can make mount /dev/mmcblpk0(or sthg like it) and mountin it anywhere, true?14:39
jottcrashanddie: you shouldn't throw out your premium geeks how are you supposed to attract new customers :P14:40
yacoob'premium geeks'14:40
yacoobthat's a scary mental image I didn't need >_<14:40
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lcukthats ok jott, we can setup an alternative14:40
jottin underpants!14:40
johnxBinky, of course14:40
crashanddie <-- Gotta love the Olympics (Probably NSFW)14:41
BinkyLOL; underpants will only attract a kind of customers...14:41
Binkyjohnx, thank you14:41
lcuksince platinum is oldhat, i thought i wouldsetup a super-premium maemo support channel for exclusive customers.  #maemo-printerink14:42
lcukcrashanddie, did you get the autobuilder building?14:43
crashanddielcuk, nope14:44
jottwe have to wait for x-fade :/14:44
johnxStskeeps, I'll just let the installer do it's thing then14:44
crashanddielcuk, probably a gpgpgpgpg/sssssssssh key14:44
lcukbooo hiss, that takes the piss14:44
jottor better he has to :)14:44
* johnx sleeps14:44
lcukgnite johnx14:44
crashanddies/key/key problem/14:44
infobotcrashanddie meant: lcuk, probably a gpgpgpgpg/sssssssssh key problem14:44
lcukwell with that stutter its feasible you are whispering the key wrong14:45
lcuknickname: ccccrrrarrarsshhhhaannnddddieie  pgp_key_phrase: 11122121233334444444555514:45
jottwhat would eve do now?14:45
BinkyI love when infobot messes up14:45
BinkyOh wait...14:45
lcukprobably go and copulate with adam14:45
lcukor the snake14:46
lcukor both14:46
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jottlcuk: i thought she had an affair with bob already?14:48
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lcukwelll eve is just randy14:50
aquatixcrashanddie: lol @ picture14:50
aquatix[or rather, wtf :)]14:50
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crashanddieI would love to see a caption on that picture "YOU FUCK MY WIFE? "14:50
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crashanddielcuk, yesterday, I spent 20 minutes reading news stories using CloudReader14:52
crashanddielcuk, this morning, I thought "oh what the hell, let's do it again", and it segfaults14:53
crashanddieI've been tracking the bug ever since14:53
Anunakingood day for all!14:53
Stskeepsjohnx: after deblet.item was made and refresh_bootmenu.d, i booted up a healthy deblet baby atleast :)14:54
thuxhi, can i change resolution in os2008? somewhere something like xorg.conf?14:54
Stskeepswith sound working too14:54
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aquatixcrashanddie: that youtube movie of yours is quite blurry :)14:55
aquatixcloudreader looks interesting though14:55
crashanddieyeah, I know, I'll try to do it again today, with better light conditions14:56
lcukcrashanddie, thats not good, reproducable and everything?14:56
crashanddiewell reproducing it is no problem, it happens every time xD14:56
lcukwhats your logging telling you?14:57
crashanddieI knew it !14:57
crashanddieI knew Obama was gonna win14:57
crashanddie[DEBUG] [CloudReader::addWord] Adding word: mccain14:57
crashanddieFatal signal: Segmentation Fault14:57
aquatixwho's Obama?14:58
* aquatix runs14:58
crashanddiebug fixed14:59
crashanddieTTF_RenderText_Blended(fonts[(occurences <= 16) ? occurences : 16], word.c_str(), colour[theColour])14:59
rm_yougah, off to work <_<14:59
crashanddieWorks a lot better when you stay within the range of the array :P15:00
lcukheh crashanddie so that tells you people are singing about mccain far too much15:01
lcukand i suppose it would blow their database to put an ' in there15:01
lcukactually it would he doesnt have one :D15:02
* lcuk is crap at speling15:02
crashanddielcuk, cloudgate has been modded, and it now fetches a description of the article15:02
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lcukcan you get rid of the silly having to press a button thing to click15:03
crashanddielcuk, it already display is, but just on one line, which means you get the first 10 words or so, and then "fuckel off"15:03
lcukwhen its sat in my cradle i cant use it15:03
crashanddielcuk, yeah, I'm going to implement a timer and double click15:03
lcukdont need it, just on mouseup work out how far the mouse has travelled15:03
crashanddieyeah, but see, canola does that15:04
crashanddieand it sucks15:04
lcukand not a crows flight start..end,  you need actual distance travelled15:04
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lcuk(otherwise it would detect an "O" as a single click15:04
lcuktotaly += ABS(mousedeltay)15:05
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crashanddieyeah, while (mousepressed) storage += abs (yrel);15:06
lcukbut that is only treating 1 dimension, you could click on something at the left hand side and release on the right and it wouldnt be detected..15:06
lcukwhich would you open in browser..15:07
crashanddiesorry, I farted15:07
lcukclose your windows then, dont want it drifting northwards15:07
crashanddieoh well, storage[0] += abs (yrel); storage[1] += abs (xrel)15:07
crashanddieor that15:08
crashanddiefuck the sqrt15:08
crashanddiesqrt consumes too much CPU15:08
lcukthough its wasteful, but since you arent doing a great deal whilst moving15:08
crashanddieMy programs don't squirt15:09
lcuknot really, its not like you are sqrting every single point before you draw it15:09
lcukits only a single op per mouse move and integer sqrt isnt bad15:09
crashanddiewell it's going to be on every SDL_EVENT15:09
crashanddieand there are quite a load of those15:09
lcuksdl_event of type mouse15:10
crashanddieyeah, but still15:10
crashanddiehave you seen the ouput of mouse movement ?15:10
lcukyer - i do lots of mousey stuff15:10
crashanddieat times it was sufficient to get SSH to lag15:10
lcukthats only your logging15:11
lcuktry putting a printf inside the render element - you get 400 or so entries per frame15:11
lcukor put it in the line blit routine and get thousands per frame15:11
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lcukor put it in the point blit routine and get hundreds of thousands per frame15:11
lcuk1 sqrt operation per frame is inconsequential at the moment :P15:12
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crashanddielcuk, how much tolerance should I accept for movement in a single click ?15:14
crashanddielcuk, 10p on each axis ?15:14
lcuki dunno, but remember when you use thumb you get much larger radius impression15:15
crashanddieI'm gonna try something15:15
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lcukin windows can i find out which devices are connected to my network?15:20
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crashanddielcuk, nmap15:23
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lcukcrashanddie, i had enough sleep last night thanks15:27
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lcukcrashanddie, i know what it i, and think it might be installed somewhere, i just dont see why windows doesnt maintain a alist of connections - its authenticated etc so someone must "know"15:29
crashanddieyou want to know where your box is connected to ?15:30
andrewfblackHey guys15:30
lcukyer, i can see the connected icon15:30
crashanddienetstat ?15:30
andrewfblackKhertan you here?15:30
lcukits normally my 810 but thats not responding so its something else..15:30
glasslcuk: theres some commandline tools in windows that you can use15:30
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glassbut i forgot their names15:31
crashanddielcuk, ipconfig /all15:31
lcukipconfig tells me interface, not whats on the backend15:31
lcukill use nmap and scan the entire thing15:31
lcukand netstat gives me irc connection and vnc15:32
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lcuknbtstat ! gives partial15:33
lcukhmmm, thats odd - vmware ip ranges are responding to pings15:35
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crashanddielol, bugfest15:38
crashanddielcuk, I just added something so that by using the zoom hardware buttons, it applies a filter on the words with a lower significance15:39
crashanddielcuk, very simple, just a "if occurences <= filter; return"15:39
lcukok,  reasonable way to cut the crap15:39
crashanddieit worked before, i had it hard coded (I didn't want all those with occurence == 1)15:40
crashanddieand now the dynamic memory allocation stopped working xD15:40
crashanddiejust like that, poof :D15:40
lcukbecause the layout changes and you need to reposition everything15:41
brontideKhertan: with py2deb do I need dput or other developer tools, or just copy the block like at the end on ( the main )15:41
crashanddielcuk, no no no, at the start of the program, filter is at 0, so it doesn't filter out anything, but it still doesn't allocate properly15:41
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lcukisnt your code set into 2 sections: initial loading inside "addword()" and then as you are rendering15:42
lcukor do you rerun the whole load operation with every resize15:42
crashanddiewhole load operation at every resize15:43
infobotlcuk meant: or do you rerun the whole load operation with every filter15:43
infobotcrashanddie meant: whole load operation at every filter15:43
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lcukoooer, so you have made your load_filter() function none reentrant - you are most likely not reseting the x/y upto variables15:44
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lcukayway, bbl15:47
andrewfblackhey does anyone know if USBControl will install on Diablo?15:47
crashanddielcuk, it would appear I deleted something in the constructor at some point... bufferH = 0; so bufferH had a crazy value, and my test to see if the background buffer needed to be expanded failed, and no expansion occured15:49
crashanddiethank you git for bug finding !15:49
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lcuki told you crashanddie im used to writing these kinds of things so know the common pitfalls :P15:53
lcukbut im not here now so nerrr :P glad its workin15:54
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RaviousAnyone know anything about the windows flasher provided by nokia? Im tryin to update my software, but it keeps telling me that it cant connect to nokia servers because my time settings are incorrect.. I've check, my settings are correct. Anyone have any ideas?16:10
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qwerty12crashanddie: cloudreader is looking good :)16:17
crashanddieqwerty12, just made a newer/better video16:18
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qwerty12Stskeeps: If you are running a gtk application as root, run it with in front16:18
qwerty12Nice :)16:18
* qwerty12 gets back to compiling boost 1.35.0. A shame the compile messed up when I suspended >.<16:19
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Stskeepsqwerty12: even under maemo?16:33
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qwerty12Stskeeps: yes16:33
qwerty12When you run a gtk app as root, it doesn't pick up the environmental variables that the user account has16:34
Stskeepsqwerty12: alright, will fix that in next instance16:34
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qwerty12Error 126 really means a lot to me16:39
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Anunakinany knows, how to have g77/fortran supporte on scratchbox?16:39
* qwerty12 enables verbose16:40
StskeepsAnunakin: why would you want that? :P16:40
Anunakinto compile a math application16:40
Stskeepsi think there's problems with g77 on armel afaik16:41
Anunakinon chinook sdk... I cold install gcc 4.3 toolchain... but I not take notes :(16:42
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qwerty12Oh, that's easy, grab the testing builds of the cs2008 toolchain and make a new targer16:43
qwerty12 *target16:43
qwerty12I've got a DIABLO_ARMEL08 target that uses cs2008 rather than cs200516:43
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StskeepsAnunakin: maybe gfortran would be usable16:44
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Anunakinqwerty12:I have the 2008q1 files16:47
qwerty12Then install it :)16:48
Anunakinqwerty12:but howto make it compatible with sbox?16:48
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Anunakinqwerty12:this is a tar.bz2... I made it on past... using a howto... but I cant find now16:49
qwerty12Hmm, I just used deb from here:
AnunakinStskeeps: I think better to use g77, because I dont want to need install any more lib16:49
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Anunakinthanks qwerty16:52
AnunakinAny think on get one Gigabyte M528 ?16:53
crashanddiewhy the hell would we want to do that for ?16:54
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crashanddieit's too big, too fat, doesn't fit in my pocket, no use16:59
jottit's not even big, it's huge :)17:01
n800myou need a gigapocket17:01
jottwell tbh, i would take one for free :)17:02
qwerty12+1 except I'd sell it and get a smaller MID :P17:02
jotthah :)17:03
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roadiesany scratchbox experts out there that cna answer a few questions ?17:05
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jottroadies: don't ask if you can ask, just ask ......17:07
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roadiesyeah, sorry forgot the rule.... ok so I need to cross compile to a target ARMEL system on a X86 source system, the catch is the make build a executable than executes the program during install, ergo it segment faults.  Any examples out there17:09
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jottroadies: qemu tends to be fragile. you could try to use the cvs-m version as cpu transparency method.17:12
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lcukroadies, why does it execute itself during installation?17:16
roadiesjott:  I think a found a way around the the issue is compiling php for apache.....brb with results if it works17:16
lcuksurely thats a job for the postinst17:16
nifaalis anyone being able to run the n810 as an wifi access point?17:16
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roadiesnifaal:  I do it by cheating... :-D I run AdHoc on it17:17
jottlcuk: there are quite a few packages that use intermediate tools in the buildprocess17:17
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nifaalroadies: ok, I guess the driver doesn't support master mode17:18
lcukyes, those intermediate tools should already be built shouldnt they?  or at least built in correct order17:18
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jottlcuk: yes, but if qemu fails then this does not help ...17:19
andrewfblackI hate this computer it wont open Tar files17:20
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roadiesnifaal:  I could not answer that, for what I need to do AdHoc was a quick and dirty....however, Adhoc is a bear sometimes to get hosts to link up17:21
lcukjott, more reasons to prefer native compilation17:22
jottlcuk: .. not with 128mb and 400mhz .. way too slow :)17:22
lcukand it drains yourr battery considerably faster than infrastructure mode17:22
jottesp. 128mb suck :P17:22
lcuknever said i liked the speed jott :P i would really like an armel desktop17:23
roadiesjott:  oh blastit, the work around didnt work... back to square one.........  make files will be my death17:23
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* qwerty12 still needs to get round to trying sbrsh17:24
* qwerty12 likes this twist of "on device compiling" :P17:24
jottyeah sbrsh can be ok to.17:24
jottor a new version of qemu :>17:25
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jottand i doubt we see a desktop anytime soon :/17:25
qwerty12Indeed :). I miss the qemu upgrades in scratchbox that KotCzarny pointed me to :/17:25
jotti use a svn snapshot :)17:26
lcukjott, didnt we see an omap3 desktop17:26
jottlcuk: where? oO17:26
jott128mb ram != desktop for me.17:26
lcukat linuxtag17:26
qwerty12jott: nice :). I'm too lazy to compile qemu, takes too long. deb ftw :P :)17:26
qwerty12lcuk: beagleboard?17:26
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jottqwerty12: qemu compiles in 1-2 minutes oO17:27
lcuki dunno which it was17:27
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jottyeah beagleboard.17:27
lcukmaybe thou17:27
jottbut it has just 128mb ram...17:27
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lcukcant these things be upgraded?17:28
qwerty12jott: heh, maybe it's because the only time I tried compiling qemu it was N800 emulation version and that took ages for me :/17:28
jottmmh. not really long :)17:28
jottlike compared to openoffice, kde, kernel etc :)17:28
qwerty12True :)17:29
* qwerty12 has to add he has never attempted openoffice or kde. I've done a kernel though :/17:29
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* qwerty12 does YAXc: Yet Another X11vnc compile17:30
Anunakinbut n810 wifi module accept infrastruture mode?17:30
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andrewfblackHey guys Khertan get me playing around with mContacts seeing if I can make a cool UI for it what do you guys prefer Text or Icon buttons?17:34
qwerty12Can someone with Diablo run ls /usr/lib/ and tell me if it exists please?17:34
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andrewfblackI noticed on mCalendar all his buttons are text but he told me to do it how I want17:34
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lcukicon+text underneath or on mouseover...17:35
jottlcuk: finger over? :)17:35
jottandrewfblack: with icons only the size is more flexible and usually you can spot things faster if the icons are good.17:36
* lcuk hates icons usually17:36
* jott hates text usually17:37
andrewfblackYeah and I was just thinking that Icons just look cooler lol17:37
* jott pokes lcuk 17:37
lcuktoo many programs use tiny icon sets which require REALLY precise mousing17:37
jottbut that's just bat icons :)17:37
lcukor fingering17:37
lcukno, its the whole design set17:37
jottthat's why i restricted the assumption to "good icons" :)17:37
jotti.e. recognizeable and reasonable in size17:38
lcukits like the icons on desktop thingy for network and brightness etc - they are just a tiny bit too small for comfortable finger use17:38
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andrewfblackyeah I plan on making them figer size17:38
lcukok jott yer17:38
lcukandrewfblack, but then theres other times when you need to  cram 400 icons on screen17:38
nifaalI am trying to paritionate a memory card. The write-lock is on off. It wasn't working from my n810. I tried on my laptop, every modification of the partition table has no effect. Any idea where the problem can come from?17:40
lcukjott, do you spend more time rotated 90degrees or have you settled back at normal landscape orientation?17:40
jottuh i rotate only for a few applications17:40
jottsometimes browsing, email and fbreader17:40
nifaalqwerty12: not existing17:41
lcuki think i might bite the bullet and stick rotation on - and then if it works think a few of us should push nokians present at the summit to add the patch officially17:41
qwerty12nifaal: ok, hmm, must be an icd2 thing. Thanks for checking17:42
qwerty12lcuk: It works :)17:42
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lcuki dont mean "if it works" as in its broken, i mean if theres clear benefits to usability without dangeous sideeffects17:43
lcukok, yes i mean if it works17:43
jottthey will never officially support it with hildon...17:43
jottit would be more of a community gift.17:44
qwerty12It's a pisstake that they ship libxrandr2 happily with diablo but not the rotation17:44
n800mapps aren't optimized for rotation tho17:44
n800mmost of them17:44
jottyep nokia apps mostly suck rotated :)17:45
jottthey just assume a fixed size17:45
jott3rd party apps usually are better as they don't assume any resultion :)17:45
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lcukcross platform apps more likely17:45
qwerty12Would have been nice if nokia had forward thinking. My OS2003SE (!) pocket pc happily rotates with the apps too17:45
lcuktheres plenty who would fall into 800*480 fixed17:45
lcukme is included in that statement17:46
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n800mi've had rotation for months now i dont think i've used more than 10-15 times17:47
n800mi wish the statusbar would go away honestly17:47
qwerty12lcuk: think you would be able to integrate libxrandr2 into liqbase?17:48
* qwerty12 has no idea if liqbase works when rotated17:48
qwerty12or rather, I can't remember17:48
jottapplications should just use the desktop resolution17:48
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jottevery assuming fixed size is broken by design17:49
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lcuk qwerty12 it would work, but it knows nothing about available resolutions, so would still offer 800*480 - it would/should display but the lcd should reformat and stretch to fit17:50
lcukjott, liqbase is not fixed size - it already operates at arbitary resolution, the main problem is where it gets the list of availabel main resolutions from17:51
n800nformat is an f word17:51
jottlcuk: root window size?17:53
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lcukjott, for now it just has a string list of available resolutions - i could build em up dynamically but for right now its not important17:54
lcukand even when it does, some display will look "wrong" - it would look stretched and incorrect on the menu screens because it would still layout and split the horizontal in 3 and stuff like that17:55
lcukthe reader element and graffiti wall should work nbicely17:55
lcukanyway, before ibash more kb i best go17:56
lcukback later17:56
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* jott waves17:56
Khertanandrewfblack: I use text in mCalendar because i don't know how to render a date in an icon :) how do you represent Friday 22 ? :)18:00
Khertanandrewfblack: but yep icon would be better i think for something like mContacts ...18:00
Khertanandrewfblack: and thanks for help18:00
Khertanbye ... coming back to home ...18:00
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* qwerty12 is still confused how "~/99x/bin/busybox ps -fe | ~/99x/bin/busybox grep x11vnc | ~/99x/bin/busybox grep -v grep | ~/99x/bin/busybox awk '{print $1}' | ~/99x/bin/busybox xargs kill -9" closed gedit18:03
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qwerty12oh, scratchbox doesn't differentiate between apps running on host.18:07
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andrewfblackKhertan  I wasn't complaining about text just asking what people thought :)18:09
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andrewfblackopps he is gone18:09
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Khertan_n810ping ?18:24
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[2]baabais there a guide somewhere on setting up things so i can run gui programs through sbrsh on the tablet's xserver?18:35
[2]baabausing diablo on an n81018:35
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andrewfblackhey khertan you there?18:52
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yacoobjohnx, I've found a repeatable scenario when the wireless gets stuck19:01
yacoobconnect to wifi, walk away from its range, wait for dhcp lease to time out.19:02
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yacoobdhcp client seems to get stuck somehow - I wasn't able to disconnect (and connect to anything else) untill I've killed it.19:03
lbtwho was doing the community kernel project19:03
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Khertan_n810not me19:07
lbtah it was qwerty12 and we discussed git IIRC19:08
lbtI think I found it
qwerty12Hmm, I don't remember discussing git :/19:08
qwerty12I'm just one of the members :)19:08
lbtand quilt?19:09
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lbtmaybe not19:09
lbt'twas a while back19:09
qwerty12Oh, the quilt suggestion was mine, trickie said he liked it in -developers19:09
lbtI just wanted to see about nfs and autofs19:09
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lbtyeah, I think I was saying that andrew morton used quilt19:10
lbtI've never tried it19:10
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qwerty12Would the sudoers line: "ALL ALL = NOPASSWD: /etc/init.d/vnc-xrdp stop" allow me to run "sudo /etc/init.d/vnc-xrdp stop" fine? (yes, I know I should try it out instead of asking but I don't have a working device atm and my ubuntu's sudo seems a little different)19:11
lbtit's the same format as many other lines19:15
lbtuser ALL = NOPASSWD: /etc/init.d/hildon-desktop stop19:15
qwerty12Ah, great, thanks for that, so hopefully it should work :)19:15
lbtbut maybe 'user' for consistency19:15
lbtyes - all the other lines are "user ALL...."19:16
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qwerty12I prefer using ALL, when I'm in a root session already and some script wants to use sudo, I get a message saying that "sorry user 'root' isn't allowed to execute this program" etc19:18
qwerty12I went through each sudoer file and changed it to user ALL to ALL ALL by hand :/19:18
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lbtI suppose it depends if you want to distribute it or use it ;)19:19
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* qwerty12 doesn't differentiate ;)19:21
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usicowdoes anyone know if its possible to delete the cache headers that Modest downloaded, cause I have thousands of emails in gmail, and I only want the last 50 or say in Modest, but it downloaded all of them :(19:23
crashanddieqwerty12, newer video:
qwerty12crashanddie: ta, watching now :)19:27
lbtcrashanddie:  how much is a mini tripod?19:27
* Khertan_n810 hope that one day he can work at home ... to avoid many hours passed in transport19:29
qwerty12crashanddie: it doesn't return straight back to cloudreader after choosing something to view does it? or are you using vnc or something?19:29
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qwerty12oh, that reminds me, x11vnc + = brilliant.19:30
qwerty12I made a quick video to show to Addison that putty can run in full screen and his tablet is fucked.19:30
* qwerty12 hopes the x11vnc with optimisations actually is faster :/19:31
usicowdo any of you guys use an external USB stick/thumb drive with the miniusb cabel that comes with the n810? (and a female->female converter + appropriate software)19:32
usicowI want to know if it works, and if so whether its good/bad.. a USB thumdrive is cheaper than a new SD card..19:33
Khertan_n810rah maemo wiki main page is still empty !19:33
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crashanddieqwerty12, yes it does return straight to cloudreader after you close the browser window19:36
GreyFoxxusi: I'm curious about that as well :)19:37
qwerty12crashanddie: oh, I didn't realise you closed it19:37
usicowGreyFoxx: have you got the female -> female converter?19:37
usicowor adapter rather19:37
liribef0rd: around?19:37
crashanddielbt, mini tripod ?19:38
lbtto keep the camera still - it would make it a lot easier to see what's happening and keep focused :D19:38
liriis pygame installed by default on the n810?19:39
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qwerty12liri: no, python doesn't come by default either19:39
crashanddielbt, who gives a19:39
liriqwerty12: ahh19:39
liriqwerty12: but there are python applications on it19:40
crashanddielbt, seriously, I nicked the camera from my next door neighbour19:40
liriqwerty12: or am I wrong and I probably installed them afterwards?19:40
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qwerty12liri: you probably enabled extras and installed python (or a program depending on python) from there :)19:40
qwerty12No programs come on the device by default that use python19:40
Khertan_n810someone know what will be the organisation of lightning session ?19:40
liriqwerty12: ahh ok19:41
Khertan_n810materials ?19:41
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liriqwerty12: seems that apt-get search isn't valid, another easy way to search for packages?19:41
brontideKhertan_n810: what do you need?19:41
crashanddieliri, apt-cache search19:41
GreyFoxxusicow: No, just starting to look into it now19:41
Khertan_n810liri: install mcalendar it depends on python2.5-runtime19:42
crashanddiebooooo python19:42
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Khertan_n810brontide: to know how this will ... just to prepare myself19:42
GAN800FBReader is finally in Extras!19:42
liriKhertan_n810: and what does python2.5-runtime brings with it? :)19:42
* qwerty12 isn't a fan of python (despite my only app being in python) due to cpu usage but the language itself is decent19:43
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Khertan_n810brontide: as i don t  speak english very well i must prepare my text19:43
Khertan_n810and the show :)19:43
Khertan_n810(and make a first release of mContacts)19:43
Khertan_n810how will be the room19:44
qwerty12liri: python2.5 (>= 2.5.2-1osso2), python2.5-bluez (>= 0.9.1-1osso2), python2.5-dbus (>= 0.82-4osso1), python2.5-gobject (>= 2.14.1-1osso1), python2.5-gstreamer (>= 0.10.5-0osso2), python2.5-cairo (>= 1.4.0-1osso2), python2.5-gtk2 (>= 2.12.1-1osso1), python2.5-hildon (>= 0.8.8-1osso8), python2.5-numeric (>= 24.2-1osso5), python2.5-osso (>= 0.3-1osso4), python2.5-pygame (>= 1.7.1-1osso2), python2.5-xml (>= 0.8.4-1osso9), python2.5-conic (>= 0.119:44
qwerty12-1osso1), python2.5-gnome (>= 2.18.0-1osso3), python2.5-id3lib (>= 0.5.1-1osso2), python2.5-imaging (>= 1.1.6-1osso2) :P . It will install python and pygame though for sure19:44
qwerty12oops, didn't realise it was that long, sorry19:44
Khertan_n810if i can show some video / document  ...19:44
Khertan_n810or it ll be just around a small table19:44
yacoobaghrk! where the hell is '|' on the n810 keyboard?!19:44
brontideUnderstood.  I'll try and get more details, but for now I would assume projector + n810 will be provided and you can always bring your own slideshow/pdf/n8x019:45
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Khertan_n810hum ...19:45
brontideThere will probably be a loaner laptop there as well19:45
TrueJournalsyacoob: Special Characters > Symbols19:45
Khertan_n810i ll prepare something in pdf so19:45
TrueJournalsIt's the second row, fifth for the right19:45
TrueJournalswait, n810?19:45
TrueJournalsNevermind :-P19:45
yacoobsigh :)19:46
yacoobmumble, mumble.19:46
Khertan_n810yaccob: chr key19:46
* TrueJournals goes and learns how to read....19:46
qwerty12I think some people resort to editing the keyboard definition file for N810 :)19:46
Khertan_n810yaccob:scroll down19:46
qwerty12As I don't have a N810, I'm not one of them :)19:46
Khertan_n810yaccob: and it ll be at the top left19:46
Khertan_n810(on my french keyboard layout)19:47
brontideKhertan_n810: if you have any specific questions you can also post to the wiki, just remeber that Quim is on Vacation so it will be a week or so before you get a responce19:47
Khertan_n810brontide: do you have see that the wiki main page is blank19:47
brontidehit reload19:47
Khertan_n810ame thing19:48
brontideIt's working here... must be cached on your end19:48
qwerty12ctrl+shift+r :)19:48
qwerty12(firefox that is)19:48
Khertan_n810qwerty12: don t  work on microb19:48
TrueJournalsF5 ;-)19:49
qwerty12Khertan_n810: Ahh, clear cache then :)19:49
Khertan_n810lol ... command r ?19:49
TrueJournalsKhertan_n810: for microb, you can just hit the go button again to reload...19:49
Khertan_n810yep i know ...19:49
GAN800It's nice when two short presses on a button are interpretted as one long press.19:49
qwerty12Or hold the stylus over it and tap reload19:49
Khertan_n810still blank19:50
lcukhit it again19:50
yacoob...speaking of which, I need to get proper keyboard layout...19:50
lcukthe harder you hit it the more it will push down the wires19:50
TrueJournalsYeah, I've problems with the main page of the wiki recently19:50
liriKhertan_n810: I am eager to see calendar, contacts and note bookmarks sync with google19:50
Khertan_n810hum ... i wan t to keep thesensitivity of the screen19:50
lcukkhertan, ive lost finger sensitivity in the centre left area of screen, everything actually works, but the left is worse than the right - after my missus leaned her elbow on it ages ago19:51
Khertan_n810calendar work at this time19:51
Khertan_n810mcontacts need a better ui19:51
lbtKhertan_n810: mContacts - does it integrate with any ldap/groupware?19:51
Khertan_n810lbt: no ldap19:52
Khertan_n810no groupware19:52
lbtok :(19:52
brontideKhertan_n810: someday we should sit down and work out a bunch of new GTK widgets for the tablet19:52
Khertan_n810but i ll try to made a sync with eds19:52
Khertan_n810brontide: yep19:52
lbtI've been setting up various groupware VMs here to see if I can get one to work on the N80019:52
Khertan_n810specially date/time pickup19:52
infobotlbt meant: I've been setting up various groupware VMs here to see if I can get withe to work on the N80019:53
Khertan_n810lbt: i don t know a usefull one19:53
lbtegroupware is my current best bet19:53
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lbtapparently it works with the Qt contacts stuff19:53
Khertan_n810i don t like the usability of it19:53
lbtI want it as a home backend - use with Korganiser or similar19:54
Khertan_n810it can work as a syncml server if i ve well understood19:54
lbtyes - I'm starting to look at some of those things - there's a lot of abandonware out there though19:55
lbtso 'kinda works' but noone is fixing it19:55
Khertan_n810lbt: and i don t like kthings excepted klauncher and kmeteo (but s palm softwares)19:55
lbtI'm agnostic - whatever does the job19:55
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Khertan_n810i ve never found one without problem or miss designed part19:56
Khertan_n810this is why at work we use a custom made19:56
lbttrue - maybe it's still DIY with slapd19:56
lbtcyrus etc19:56
Khertan_n810by ourself19:56
Khertan_n810brontide: is there is a plan to refine hildon widget in a next maemo release ?19:57
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andrewfblacklbt I have message around with a lot of groupware this last few weeks trying to find something I can modify into something better then what I have now at and most of them suck or are abandonware like you said.  The few I did find and like the web interface doesn't work else with tablet20:05
lbtandrewfblack: I think I'd like things that implement the various protocols20:06
lbtthe tablets are going to be disconnected a lot20:06
lbtso web i/f is secondary (in my book)20:06
lbtthen the various Qt PIM apps look useful20:07
lbt(limited true)20:07
GAN800Khertan_n810, there's lots of UI stuff going on for Fremantle.20:08
brontideKhertan_n810: I hope so... I really hope we can see something at the summit so I have an idea of what they are thinking20:08
lbtplus, tbh, cutting down a web i/f is not too hard...20:08
Khertan_n810lbt: and a calendar that sync with google isn t enought ?20:08
Khertan_n810brontide: i hope too20:08
lbtno, sorry, I have this thing about not storing my data on an advert server20:09
Khertan_n810GAN800: fremantle ... so this is not for tomorrow20:09
GAN800Of course not.20:09
Khertan_n810lbt: it s a choice20:09
lbtI'm happy to have my server sync with google20:09
lbtbut I want some things to be private20:09
andrewfblackif all you really wants is notes and calendar I looked at but I havn't tried to see if there Linux App would compile on the Tablets20:10
Khertan_n810andrewfblack: do u have already try to use it ?20:10
Khertan_n810i think no ...20:11
lbtI'm favouring things based on established servers: cyrus and slapd20:11
lbtscalable and supported20:11
Khertan_n810lbt: you will have less privacy with this thing than google20:11
andrewfblackKhertan_n810 I'ved used chandlerprojecton my desktop but not the tablet20:11
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Khertan_n810i ve try it ... and found it really useless20:12
lbtKhertan_n810: you mean the chandler thing? I'd run it locally rather than use their server20:12
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lbtbut I've only opened the FAQ so far :)20:13
Khertan_n810lbt: i mean slapd20:13
andrewfblackI also found its useless to since I don't like how everything notes and tasks and all are in same section20:13
Khertan_n810many holes20:13
MangoFusionwhat is needed20:13
MangoFusionis an app specifically designed for an IT20:13
MangoFusionbecause lets face it20:13
MangoFusionall the current ones suck as20:14
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Khertan_n810andrewfblack: i found the organization totally lazy20:14
lbtMangoFusion: don't disagree - but we're talking backend servers20:14
Khertan_n810mcalendar is designed for it !20:14
andrewfblackkhertan_n810 I considered writting one my self the web app and database stuff I can do I just don't know enough about python to program a tablet app for it20:14
lbtI'd like those to support standard apis20:15
Khertan_n810lbt: there isn t standart api ...20:15
lbthence "I'd like" :D20:16
Khertan_n810oups :)20:16
lbtthere are some that are better than others20:16
Khertan_n810yep ...20:16
* lbt is no expert in this area20:16
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Khertan_n810same thing20:16
lbtjust looking and learning20:16
Khertan_n810i ll let ... i take my car to go home20:16
lbtI was trying to figure out egroupware<->konversation t'other day using wireshark...20:17
lbtthe xml is interesting... but not *that* hard.20:17
lbtanyhow - dinner...20:17
Sho_lbt: KDE Konversation?20:17
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Sho_lbt: Ah, interesting (I maintain/develop it)20:18
Sho_lbt: anyhow, bon appetit20:18
lbtooh - I'll keep your name around ;)20:18
jga23_anybody know the gtk widget name for the breadcrumb style widget in the application manager?20:18
lbtthere were some syncml (or whatever I can't recall) bugs20:19
lbtanyhow mrs lbt is calling20:19
Sho_lbt: The egroupware stuff is in kdepim, though. Konversation integrates with KDE's KAddressBook using the library and KIMProxy, and KAddressBook in turn can set up and access eGroupWare resources.20:20
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t_s_ohmm, how much mA is the minimum the N800 needs to effectively charge?20:31
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Anunakinqwerty12: Are you here?20:43
qwerty12Anunakin: sure20:44
Anunakinqwerty12: Man, I installed... 2008q1 toolchain!!20:44
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qwerty12Anunakin: Nice :)20:45
Anunakinqwerty12: but now I getting a error...20:45
Anunakinchecking whether the C compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs.20:45
AnunakinIf you meant to cross compile, use `--host'.20:45
AnunakinSee `config.log' for more details.20:45
qwerty12Is this with a new target?20:46
AnunakinI used... --host... and works20:46
Anunakin./configure --prefix=/usr --host=arm-linux-gnueabi20:46
Anunakinbut I mean... where I can resolve it?20:46
qwerty12Is this with a new target?20:46
AnunakinI cloned the old target20:47
Anunakincp -rp DIABLO_ARMEL DIABLO_ARMEL_2008q120:47
Anunakinand change toolchain on sb-menu20:47
qwerty12Sounds like your config file is messed up. Try this one:
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GAN800t_s_o, ~360mA is what the car charger provides.20:48
Anunakinqwerty12: Nice, you have a solution ... for all thinks!20:48
jga23_anybody know a good place to buy an extra battery for the n810?20:49
t_s_ook, i have philips power2go (or was it power2charge) battery here with a usb port thats rated for 350mA and with a note about not going above 450...20:49
lcukjga23_, nokia online shop?20:49
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Anunakinqwerty12: What I must use from this page? top or botton?20:54
t_s_owell it seems its able to charge the N800, even tho the work light flickers on and off all the time (not sure if thats a indication of overload as i cant find the behavior documented anywhere)20:54
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dannymhi :)20:58
yacoobhm... what are my choices if I'd like to code an app for maemo? C++/Python?20:59
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dannymyacoob: Python, C, C++20:59
dannymyacoob: there are ports of .NET (mono) and Ruby as far as I know20:59
Anunakinyes yacoob... I think there are: tcl/tk,  mono20:59
dannym(but they are not there per default)21:00
yacoobany speed considerations, api limitations?21:00
Anunakinyes not default in any system21:00
dannymyacoob: use C if you want speed :)21:00
lcukyacoob, depends what you wanna do21:00
Anunakinbetter use C++ with GTK or QT21:00
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dannymyacoob: (that includes writing Python C extensions)21:01
lcukfor a mainly desktop app talking to a database does it matter what language?21:01
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dannymlcuk: no, for glue it doesn't matter :)21:01
yacoobTBH, I don't know yet whether I "want" anything. I'm just trying to estimate the effort/resources needed to write/port an app, if it's not there 8)21:01
yacoob(and here, I'm mostly wondering about maemo-specific part)21:02
dannymyacoob: well, GTK is mostly the standard GTK so if you have done GTK app coding before, it's the same :)21:02
lcukall depends on what it is - ie python would be useless for games, and asm would be useless for a quick ui around another app21:02
dannymyacoob: PyGTK is there, too :D21:02
yacoobfor example, there doesn't seem to be any OTP applications, and it will be relatively easy to code one. The part I don't know, is how much harder it will get with maemo.21:03
yacoobNever done *any* UI programming 8)21:03
lcukprintf("OTP application\n");   // todo: find out what OTP actually is21:03
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yacoobone time passwords :)21:03
yacoob(see, I'm PalmOS refugee, trying to find my ground here in maemo world 8)21:04
lcuksomeone already coded one of those, however it was OTC and he says it needs rewriting everytime he uses it21:04
dannymyacoob: I see :) no GUI programming experience (at all, anywhere)? that will be "interesting" then :)21:05
dannymyacoob: as for general library availability, <>21:05
dannymyacoob: Maemo is quickly becoming like a normal GNU/Linux distribution and these days almost everything that's on a PC Linux distribution is there :)21:06
dannym(everything which makes sense...)21:06
yacoobdannym, tiny taste of it with webapps, but no desktop apps. I enjoy more implementing some functionality, than making it useful and acessible for others 8)21:06
lcukand if its not you can attempt to build it21:06
yacoobdannym, yes, I've made a quick round trip through the apps - and saddly, some of the "ports" are soooo out of place on tablet.21:07
yacooblike, application with its own menu bar.21:07
dannymyacoob: yeah, I know. A lot of the apps only were minimally changed in order to build on the tablet and everything else kept... someone should "Hildonize" them (Hildon is the Maemo GUI style) :)21:10
lcukyacoob, you can say the same thing about some of the nokia apps on the tablet21:10
yacoobwhich ones?21:10
lcuklook around the system and find out how many scrolling solutions you can find21:10
crashanddieway too many21:14
yacoobhm... scrolling bar, wide scrolling bar, dragging stuff by clicking on the background...?21:14
* lcuk thinks kinetic is the way forward21:14
crashanddiea scrollbar is only useful when you have a mouse with no scrolling wheel21:15
lcuka scroll area is useful, but not a desktop type scroll bar21:15
crashanddieanother use is to "show" where you are on the page, and I agree that can be useful21:15
lcuka fixed size grab handle along a rail is plenty21:15
crashanddieagreed, I was about to implement that in CR21:15
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lcuk(especially one that happens to use a sketch as its handle ;)21:16
lcukwhats the best way of relieving a bad day?21:16
crashanddieget a banana milkshake for you, wife and kids, and enjoy it all together21:17
GeneralAntillesKill the neighbors.21:17
crashanddieor that21:17
GeneralAntillesBreakfast dinner!21:17
GeneralAntillesMake the family pancakes21:17
lcukheh GeneralAntilles the neighbours kid isnt helping i must agree21:17
yacoobbtw, any way to change the default application for a given extension?21:18
GeneralAntillesThen fly into a rage when they refuse to eat the food you made.21:18
crashanddieoh fuck, is it 19:20 already ?21:18
GeneralAntillesI agree21:18
lcukyacoob, yes, you just have to install a new window manager, assign the mime types into it, recompile your kernel and bobs your uncle movies will open in mplayer.    (its just mime types really i believe)21:18
crashanddieOH YOU CUNT21:20
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Anunakinlcuk: Make sex 10 times... with you wife!!!!21:21
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crashanddiemake sex ?21:21
lcukAnunakin, i'm glad you added that last bit, i was making plans to hump my bass speaker21:21
crashanddiemake: *** No rule to make target `sex'. Stop.21:21
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lcukwouldnt it be "-sh: Make: not found"21:22
crashanddieI can understand how one can "make love", or "have sex"21:22
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crashanddiebut make it ?21:22
egypt$ %blow21:23
egyptbash: fg: %blow: no such job21:23
dannym_yacoob: no really, edit "/ur/share/applications/default.list" :)21:23
dannym_yacoob: you can put whatever program you want to be associated to a MIME Media Type there...21:23
moontigermorning all :)21:23
Anunakincrashanddie: hum I dont know... english not is my firt language... I think all can see it...21:23
crashanddieAnunakin, english isn't my flirt tongue either21:23
dannym_yacoob: and if they didn't go out of their way hiding the evil evil UNIX filesystem (?), it would be actually quite discoverable... but noo...21:24
dannym_(in the file manager, I mean)21:24
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lcukunix folks wouldnt use the filemanager :)21:24
Anunakinmake: *** No rule to make target `sex'.  Stop.21:24
yacoobdannym_, nah, I like it this way.21:25
dannym_lcuk: well yeah... :)21:25
crashanddieisn't ls a file manager ?21:25
yacoobI mean, on limited screen space, I shouldn't be forced to click over through the filesystem :)21:25
dannym_crashanddie: that's like saying GQView is Photoshop :)21:25
crashanddienot really21:26
crashanddiels is to file manager as paint is to image editor21:26
melmothAnybody using cairo in pygame ?21:26
lcukif it can save then, yeah it is - run it, show image, open console write bits to /dev/memoryx whatever it is, write it back21:26
lcukvoila, photoshop21:26
yacoobnot even that :P21:26
dannym_yacoob: it would be actually quite similar to now... if it showed "/", you'd see "media" and the two SD cards... just that they'd be named the same in the filemanager and in the real system :)21:27
crashanddieand you'd see a bunch of shit lusers don't need to know about21:27
lcukat the least a menu config option could be added "start from /"21:28
crashanddiequite honestly, why ?21:28
dannym_crashanddie: as long as they can't write it... could even make the directories supposed to be evil "o-x" and they can't even enter them :)21:28
lcukbecause i dont like having to open another program to browse the filesystem21:28
dannym_crashanddie: why? For consistency...21:28
dannym_crashanddie: as in, everything in the system uses the same names for the same things :)21:29
crashanddieI mean, do you need a file manager to go look into a text file in /etc/conf.d, which you'd probably need to edit through the terminal anyway, considering you need root access ?21:29
crashanddiedannym_, of course it doesn't, where the hell do you come from, Linux 2.2 ?21:29
dannym_crashanddie: hmm?21:29
dannym_crashanddie: what doesn't?21:30
crashanddieif I mount the diablo II expansion CD from /dev/cdrom0 to /media/cdrom, I want it to appear in my file manager as "Diablo II: Expansion set", not /media/cdrom021:31
Anunakinuse automounter21:31
* crashanddie facepalms21:32
dannym_crashanddie: actually in an ideal world, that would be "/media/cdrom0/Diablo II: Expansion set/" ...21:32
* dannym_ sighs21:32
yacoobdannym_, if the product is targeted at general market, I'd say, stick to "safe" fileselector. Unless there would be "extended" version that you can enable by flipping setting in a config file...21:33
crashanddiedannym, I'm sorry, that wouldn't make sense at all21:33
crashanddiedannym, because it wouldn't either respect the CD filesystem, nor the Linux filesystem21:33
Anunakincrashanddie: try use ivman21:34
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crashanddieAnunakin, I don't want to be rude21:34
crashanddieAnunakin, I was citing a mere example, I don't care about mounting CDs or not, I don't care about Diablo II, and if I wanted, I would know how to sort it out21:34
dannym_crashanddie: it works that way today, with ivman :) and makes perfect sense to me and the UNIX system (i.e. there's no crazy hacks to make this work, if that's what you mean)21:34
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Anunakincrashanddie: ivman is a service who mounts you CD using it LABEL21:35
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lcukso does diablo II work on diablo?21:35
Anunakincrashanddie: you wants the same name all time?21:35
dannym_crashanddie: first you say you want it to be that way and then you say it makes no sense... *confused+ :)21:35
dannym_cool, Diablo on Diablo ^^21:35
lcukdoes diablo work on diablo?21:35
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crashanddiewell, not directly21:36
crashanddiebut ssh -X never stopped working :P21:36
crashanddiedannym, no, I didn't say I wanted that21:36
Anunakincrashanddie: you wants install diablo II, next it expancion?21:36
dannym_crashanddie: it should appear in the file manager with the label "Diablo II: Expansion set". Well, it does, then :)21:36
crashanddieAnunakin, say one more word, and I swear I'll send you back down your fucking tubes, got that ?21:37
lcuk*************** OFFICIAL CHANNEL BREAK ***************** before people get carried away with specifics, crash cited a common example, it matters not anything about it, can we please get back to discussing make sex21:37
crashanddielcuk, good timing21:37
crashanddieI'm off for a cigarette21:37
dannym_ok :)21:37
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yacooboooohhh, gjiten. Yummy.21:39
RST38hlcuk: KILL?21:39
Anunakincrashanddie: are you crazy? or what?21:39
lcukRST38h, -9?21:40
dannymyacoob: learning Japanese? :)21:41
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yacoobI had, some time ago. Still try to revisit things now and then.21:42
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yacoobRight now I've made a list of palmos apps, and I'm trying to match up maemo replacements21:43
yacooband I've arrived at PAdict21:43
yacoobso far so good, only 8 out of 28 apps remain unmatched.21:43
yacooband most of them are not crucial.21:44
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lbtyacoob: have you put that on the wiki? Sounds like a good idea :)21:48
yacoobNo, at the moment it's in my google docs. But that's a good idea indeed.
yacoobHmm, mokopedia looks nice.21:49
yacoob...looks like I'll need either sshd, or bt keyboard for my tablet.21:50
yacoob(and there goes my already scarce free time... :)21:50
lbtssh - makes life so easy21:50
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dannymreminds me, anyone knows how to get a Mesh network to work (for later SSHing)?21:51
dannymthat is, I have a N800 with wireless, a laptop with wireless but _no_ access point.21:52
dannym(no router that can serve as access point)21:52
lbtyou need to setup ad-hoc mode21:53
lbtnever needed to do it though - but that's the google term in case you didn't know...21:54
moontigerdoes anyone know how to change the bg color of a toolbar?21:54
dannymlbt: I see, thanks :)21:55
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usicowis anyone using a 16GB SD card in the n810?21:56
moontigerusicow, i have an 8gb only21:56
yacoobad hoc mode, then some kind of nat on the laptop, then set routing on the tablet...21:56
yacoobnat might be tricky to get, depending on whether you have >1 interface, and operating system. If you have bt in your laptop, pan networking can be an option too.21:57
usicowmoontiger: have you heard of people using up to 16GB, or should I just get an 8GB one?21:57
moontigerusicow, i havent but i think i read somewhere that 8gb is the max supported for now21:58
dannymyacoob: yeah, I have bluetooth there. But if usbnet is any indication (Bluetooth uses the same chip), it will probably not work :)21:58
dannym(last time I tried usbnet it crashed both my laptop _and_ the tablet ;))21:58
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moontigeri got a patriot 8gb for $40 or so fyi21:58
lbtwhat os is the laptop?21:58
yacoob8GB is "officially supported", but I think 16GB should just work...21:59
yacoobnext actual limit is 128GB :)21:59
lcukdannym, i use adhoc wifi to my windows desktop and it works really well21:59
dannymlbt: Gentoo Linux21:59
moontigeryacoob, probably but at the time 16gb were *very* pricey and i didnt need more than 8gb21:59
lcukwatch for battery life though, set it to manually connect and disconnect21:59
usicowyacoob: ok21:59
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lcukadhoc kills battery quicker than normal because the wifi circuits cant sleep and always broadcast the network when you enable it22:00
lbtdannym: I have absolutely no problems using usb networking on debian with a home kernel (2.6.25, 26 and 27-rc2)22:00
yacoobbtw, has any of you tried microb extensions?22:00
pupnik_yacoob: have you a summary list of missing apps?22:00
dannymlcuk: I see22:00
usicowI can get an 8GB one which is class 6, but only a class 4 16GB one.. what do you guys recommend, should I get the slower but bigger SD card, or just get the 8GB one which is faster?22:01
dannymlbt: hmm, I tried with last time22:01
lbtusicow: what do you need the extra 8gb for?22:01
dannymlbt: sometimes, the normal usb storage doesn't work via USB either :( maybe hardware failure somewhere (cable?) ...22:01
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usicowlbt: I guess nothing.. more movies? :)22:01
pupnik_ < crashanddie> My programs don't squirt  << quote of the day for me22:02
lbtdannym: well, in that case...22:02
yacoobpupnik_, it's somewhat of a scribble, but: tomerider3 (basically, offline wikipedia reader), world clock (system gives me 2 places, I need 3 8), date diff (not crucial, nice toy :), db (just a relational db, not crucial, I think I can just use sqlite), handyshopper, woman, tsOTP22:02
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lbtusicow: then you don't need the speed :)22:02
dannymlbt: (the N800 is usb storage mode doesn't accept any "address" assigned to it - once every 10 tries or so)22:02
Stskeepshmm. is the /media/mmc1 and /media/mmc2 notation consistent on n800/n810?22:02
lcuklbt, is handyshopper your work?22:02
lcukor a rival?22:02
lbtgoddam copycats...22:02
usicowlbt: hmm good point.. but what type of operations would I need the extra speed for then? lots of copying or something?22:03
lbtusicow: not even sure the hw makes use of the speed22:03
lbtlcuk: not seen it...22:03
dannymStskeeps: I have a N800 and there, "/media/mmc1" and "/media/mmc2" exist. I don't know about the N810...22:03
lcukusicow, you always need more speed22:03
dannymlcuk: is adhoc to be set up on both sides?22:04
lbtStskeeps: I'm fairly sure it's consistent22:04
usicowlcuk: yeah I think I'll get the faster 8GB card.22:04
lcukdannym, yes.  for a completely open connection if 2 computers with the same adhoc name meet they connect :)22:04
* Stskeeps is building "install deblet to a file on my MMC card"22:05
* lcuk names his adhoc "free wireless internet"22:05
yacoob"free bird seed"22:05
lbtStskeeps: the tablet, AFAIK, only mounts VFAT to /media/mmc[12]22:06
lcukusicow, the faster card should be noticable if you choose to boot from it and store apps etc22:06
lcukive got ext2 on my mmc1 i think22:06
lbtbut does it automount to that dir?22:06
lcukhow would i be able to tell?22:06
lcuki dont ever have to manually mount anything    (computer related you dirty bastards)22:07
lcuk/dev/mmcblk1p1 on /media/mmc1 type ext2 (rw)22:07
lbtthere's a comment on the wiki that may be wrong then - I just believed it22:08
lbt(damned wikis)22:08
lcuknever trust any single fact on the internet22:09
lcukor in life itself for that matter22:09
lbtis that a fact?22:09
lcukyes :P22:10
yacoobhas anyone measured how much cruft builds up with frequent installing of various packages? One thing is dependencies that gets pulled in and not removed, the other - various files sprinkled around in /var22:11
lcukyes, theres a cleanup tool around, i think its called flasher-3.0 or something22:12
* lcuk goes coding22:12
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yacoobyes, that's my plan so far, test various shit, then reflash and install "wanted" state. :D22:13
yacoobthere was a decrufter in Debian, though. One that was going through whole fs and comparing it to both dpkg db state and various policies22:13
Stskeepshmm. is there a mkfile equivalent for maemo?22:15
Stskeepsif i have to make a 2gb file for instance22:15
Stskeepswith all zeros22:15
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yacoobis dd there?22:15
yacoobdd if=/dev/zero of=/tmp/yourfile bs=1G count=222:16
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yacoobwatch out for sparsies :)22:16
Stskeepsyeah.. since im putting a filesystem inside it, im not doing a sparse file22:17
Stskeepsas it will perform even worse with a sparse file22:17
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dannymlcuk: do I set up the IP address of the ad-hoc WLAN interface manually?22:18
lcuki have done, but thats how the rest of my network is configured22:19
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jga23_anybody know the hildon widget name for the "breadcrumb" widget in the application manager?22:31
lbtI just got FDOSed22:32
lbtit's like a DDOS22:32
lbtbut it happens when a feline rests her head on your printscreen key and engages autorepeat....22:32
Stskeepsi thought FDOS was gf dragging you away from computer22:33
lbthad to login to a server to ssh back and kill them - and still they kept coming22:33
lbtand she just purred - grrr22:33
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t_s_o <- so when can we expect this in microb?22:39
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GeneralAntillest_s_o, it should be merged with trunk by Fremantle.22:46
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: t_s_o, MicroB should be merged with trunk by Fremantle.22:46
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GeneralAntillesI doubt if there are any real plans for that for MicroB yet, though.22:46
t_s_ook. so its just a matter of leaning back, waiting for fremantle and hope that nokia dont find some reason to drop the N8x0 line before that time22:47
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GeneralAntillest_s_o, the tablets aren't going anywhere.22:48
t_s_osorry, just my fatalist streak kicking in...22:49
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manyosoQt painting performance on N810 is really really slow:
manyosofor those in the community who don't read planetkde.org23:19
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Stskeepsmore reason to get nokia to make powervr stuff availiable ;)23:20
jottmanyoso: currently qt is build without vfp23:20
manyosoyah, but i built qt manually with vfp and it didn't help :)23:21
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manyosoi used all the same CFLAGS as found on qtopia phone edition for n81023:21
manyosodidn't help23:22
manyosoregardless, i wonder why antonio doesn't build the packages with vfp and other compiler optimizations23:22
jottit's currently in the queue.23:23
jotti just disabled it for the moment as the builder makes trouble with it.23:23
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manyosojott: did you seee i posted my patch for QTouchEvent's to the qt4-maemo mailing list?23:25
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jottmanyoso: yes, i had no time to look at it in detail yet.23:25
zapAnybody knows a way to find out the name of a package which "Provides:" some virtual package?23:27
kulveif compiling with Scratchbox you can pass gcc options to the gcc wrapper through environment variables. This way e.g. configure or makefiles doesn't need to know about the options23:27
jottmanyoso: have you actually looked how much fps the raster render of qgears2 gives under qt/e? would be interesting.23:27
zapfor example, package kernel-source-diablo "Provides: kernel-source", how I can find out "kernel-source-diablo" from "kernel-source"?23:27
manyosono i haven't23:27
manyosobut i've run the identical browser under both and i can say that qt/e is much better23:28
manyosoon same device23:28
jottyes that's why i thought about it, to get some numbers to compare to :)23:28
manyosowhen i get some more time maybe i'll run qgears2 under qt/e on n810 for comparison23:28
manyosobut i don't have time soon23:29
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lpotterperhaps I could do it :)23:32
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AnunakinAny knows? about install g77/fortran on scratchbox?23:34
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manyosolpotter: would be very interesting23:34
n800myou know i just realized i haven't downloaded music in many months23:34
n800mmaybe 1+ year23:35
n800mother than creative commons music23:35
n800mi have a new purpose.23:36
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crashanddien800m, you wouldn't have a more obvious nickname, would you ?23:37
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Tobawhat purpose is that?23:37
n800nmusic binge23:38
n800ni play music pretty much nonstop on the n800 hooked up to a sound system, but mostly shoutcast streams23:38
crashanddienot really23:39
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zapalternatively, is there a way to determine what's the target OS flavour in current scratchbox? (e.g. chinook, diablo etc)23:41
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crashanddieelekt, LMFAO23:43
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elekti hat how urls give away content23:45
elektruins the joke 50% of the time23:45
elekthat = hate23:45
crashanddiethis one doesn't:
lcuki have done, but thats how the rest of my network is configured23:48
crashanddielcuk, yes ?23:49
lcukxchat was in the wrong position, im coding and alt-tabbed up arrowed and pressed enter (intening to re-run "./")23:50
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crashanddiealt+tab pwned23:50
lcukuh huh23:51
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* lcuk shouldnt have set a network delete off23:55
lcukits takin forever23:55
lcukwhats the option i need for rm to delete a folder23:56
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* lcuk wont be including any slashes23:57
zaprm -r23:57
lcukthanks :)23:57
zapor rm -rf to delete all inside it23:57
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zapsorry, rm -r is recursive, -f is force23:58
zapif you want to just delete a directory and fail if its not empty, use rmdir23:58
lcukits ok, it worked as expected23:59

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