IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2008-08-17

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crashanddiegregorovius, that's the local hostname00:10
crashanddiegregorovius, not the network name00:10
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gregoroviuscrashanddie: huhm, what do I need to modify then?00:10
crashanddiegregorovius, change the /etc/hosts on your desktop/laptop00:11
gregoroviusbut I have a router with dhcp00:11
crashanddieusually the IP will stay the same00:11
timelyyou should configure your router00:11
crashanddiedepends if you a stable DNS or not00:11
timelyit can probably assign an ip address00:11
* timely can't remember if the tablets support getting names sent by dhcp00:12
crashanddieusing the MAC address of the NIT, you can tell your router to always give the same IP address00:12
fredcrashanddie: quite a few routers automatically create dns entries based on the local hostname when given by the DHCP client00:12
timelyyou can probably tell your router to provide some dns too00:12
gregoroviusfred: I thought that would happen, but so far no luck00:12
crashanddiegregorovius, tell your router to always provide the same IP address, and be done with it00:12
fredgregorovius: after changing the host files you may have to restart your {networkconnection,tablet}, or it might be that the n810 doesn't give a hostname00:13
crashanddiegregorovius, then just bind mynokia in /etc/hosts00:13
crashanddiefred, it doesn't, and probably his router/dns doesn't read it00:13
fredActually, it definatlely does00:13
gregoroviusI already restarted my NIT00:13
* fred just checked his logs and dns server on his router00:13
crashanddieah ?00:13
crashanddieIt does ?00:14
fredat least on diablo.00:14
gregoroviusmy router is displaying the new hostname00:14
gregoroviusbut I don't know if it just mirrors the external dns or whatnot00:14
crashanddiegregorovius, do you use the DNS on your router ?00:14
gregoroviusmy resolv.conf points to my router's IP, so I guess I do00:15
fredah, may have found the gstreamer issue with my player; I have chinook qt :|00:15
gregoroviusbtw, I'm looking at /etc/mce/mce.ini, what is exactly softpoweroff?00:15
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* lcuk sees dead people00:16
GeneralAntillesgregorovius, it doesn't work00:17
GeneralAntillesHrm, too bad00:17
GeneralAntillesbug #240000:17
gregoroviusi'll check it out, thanks00:17
GeneralAntillesIt's like a cooler, slicker, easier to use lock screen and keys00:17
GeneralAntillesBut it's broken00:17
GeneralAntillesand I don't know if they'll ever ship a real fix00:17
gregoroviusyeah, it sounded good00:17
GeneralAntillesIt lets you switch into locked AND offline mode (or any combination) with just a longpress on the power key00:18
gregoroviusi'm still waiting for proper ogg support :P00:18
GeneralAntillesPrepare to wait00:18
fredisn't that in gstreamer-plugins-good ?00:18
RST38hGAN: Take a look at the above URL if interested00:18
GeneralAntillesSeems to be management and lawyer hold-up.00:19
GeneralAntillesRST38h, what is it?00:19
lcuklong press of power turns things off - i would prefer to do it all with lock slider00:19
RST38hIt is a calculator with some symbolic processing and a plotter00:19
GeneralAntillesOh, cool.00:19
RST38hearly beta00:19
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Andy80hi all00:39
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Andy80is website down?00:39
gregoroviusAndy80: seems down for me00:39
Andy80it is for me too :(00:40
timelywho needs websites?00:40
Andy80timely: ?00:41
Andy80I just needed to access the wiki00:41
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henriquelcuk: hi!00:44
pupnik[entertainment] best rant ever?  also _rant2.mp3, 3,4,500:45
pupnik(language, adult themes)00:45
lcuk\o hi henrique00:45
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henriquelcuk: did you see my mail?00:46
lcukno? gimme a mo00:46
GeneralAntillesWorks fine here, Andy80.00:46
* lcuk checks all his accounts00:46
henriquelcuk: it is about liqbase heh00:47
lcukyer just reading now00:47
Andy80GeneralAntilles: now it's working for me too, but only http://maemo.org00:47
henriquelcuk: right, thanks!00:48
Andy80GeneralAntilles: if you try to access a blank page is loaded00:48
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lcukhenrique, pm00:53
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iXcehmm, is the gtk-update-icon-cache still mandatory for postinst scripts, or is it run when user/* apps are being setup ?01:27
iXce(because I installed the deb of an app which wasn't calling that, yet the icon was shown right after install in the menu)01:27
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* moontiger wonders why sbox absolutely SUCKS so much...01:30
Proteousduh, what do you thing the "S" is for01:42
melmothca marche01:42
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iXcehmm, is it possible to update sbox's automake to 1.9 easily?01:50
zapapt-get install automake-1.901:55
zapeasy, eh?01:55
iXcethis doesn't work :)01:55
zap"automake1.9", sorry01:56
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iXcenah I mean, I had tried this, but automake is /scratchbox/tools/bin/automake01:56
iXcewhich points to a scratchbox wrapper01:56
zaprun automake-1.9 instead of "automake"01:56
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iXcebah, you win :)01:56
zapand learn the wonders of the "Tab" key :)01:56
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iXceideally this shouldn't be needed :o (for instance I'm currently trying to compile pidgin 2.4.3 for diablo, and because of this it won't work with chinook packages, or I have missed something)01:59
zapwell, the whole autoconf/automake thing is a pig pile of stinking shit^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hmess01:59
iXceyeah, autotools are sadly broken by concept :/02:00
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iXcebut getting projects to use cmake/scons/whatever-else is not quite easy either, devs are anchored in their good old habits02:01
zaptrue, I'm anchored in my own build system :)02:01
ProteousI'm anchored to 200lbs of concrete on the ocean floor02:02
Proteouscement shoes you might say02:02
Proteousif it wasn't so dark down here you might be able to see the fishes02:03
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zapI believe you're connected directly to the transatlantic cable?02:03
Proteousthe bandwidth is amazing02:03
zapit sticks right into your @ss? :)02:04
iXceI've heard that fishes hardly do anything else than IRC02:04
Proteousalthough finding waterproof networking gear that will work at this depth is hard02:04
iXcewhich would explain why there's so much spare bandwidth :)02:04
* zap now understands what means "phishing"02:04
iXcezap: hmpf, google won't tell me what your build system is, any hint? :)02:05
ProteousI'm in ur oceans, tapping ur cablz02:05
zapum, er02:05
zapwhy you would need it, it sucks anyway :)02:05
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iXcecuriosity :o02:05
Proteousthink of the fishes!02:06
zapiXce: it's used in this project:
iXcedoesn't look that sucky, it's at quite short02:07
zapthe most complex stuff is under build/mak/02:10
zapbut usually user doesn't have to mess with it02:10
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moontigerdoes anybody know how to get a usb keyboard working with the n810?02:29
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tank-maninstall one of those applets that toggle host mode02:35
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moontigertankman... yah i have that already ... problem is the n810 doesn do the numlock thing right so i cant use half the keys02:38
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lcukmoontiger, what do you mean?  the only restriction for host mode and usb keyboards is power as far as i know02:39
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jott..and the right settings for xkb :)02:40
lcukyes jot, but thats not a usb specific issue02:41
jottno. just a usb keyboard issue :)02:41
lcukdont bluetooth keyboards need remapping?02:41
moontigerso i have to do a custom xkb map?02:41
jottmoontiger: that's my blind guess.02:41
jott(maybe there is a ready one)02:42
lcukmoontiger, whats actually happening02:42
tank-manmy usb keyboard just works with my n80002:42
moontigermy bluetooth works fine ... its just the non-standard layout ... the delay and the lack of number keys02:42
moontigeri have a mini usb keyboard that would be great to use...02:42
moontigerit works fine in otg or whatever mode (host i think)02:42
lcuki dont get lag with my bt keyboard (or not noticable anyway?)02:42
moontigerbut the numlock wont turn off so half the keys wont register with any apps on the n81002:43
moontigerplugging it into my laptop usb port works fine02:43
lcuki thought numlock was a hardware specific thing - the host ocmputer doesnt control it does it?02:43
moontiger(using it now to test)02:43
moontigerlcuk ... it just toggles some keycode settings in the codes sent thru to the host pc02:44
moontigertankman... what usb keyboard are u using?02:45
moontigerhow are you connecting it?02:45
lcukyes, it sends different codes depending if the keyboard itself is in numlock mode - but thats not the job of the computer to decide what the keyboard sends is it?02:45
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moontigerlcuk ... i dont think so but i think if a pin is held high the keyboard thinks numlock is set on or something02:45
moontigerwhat bluetooth kb do you use btw?02:46
lcukapple thin02:46
moontigeroooooooooooh really??02:46
moontigerand it works?02:46
lcukyer, very nicely for what i use it for02:46
moontigerwhich is?02:46
lcukand coding02:47
moontigercoding right ... it has [] and {} ?02:47
lcukyer, im just used to a fullsize keyboard02:47
lcukit only has backspace and no delete (or the other way round)02:47
moontigerright .... im trying to find a small kb that i can take with me when im on the road so to speak02:48
lcukyer, ive got the 810 for most things, but if i need to sit down and do some actual work i take my apple02:48
lcukits about the size of a book so fits in whichever bag ive got02:48
moontigeri have the 810 too but i find the lack of a tab key to be somewhat ridiculous02:48
moontigerthe apple keyboard isnt too big?02:49
lcukcheck for yourself02:49
jottmoontiger: you can easily map the tab key.02:49
moontiger*laughs* thats awesome!!02:49
moontigertotal geek you are :)02:50
jottand {} [] :)02:50
lcukno, i couldnt hold it when reading in bed - the bezel is too thin02:50
lcukand fbreader is too frisky with page moving02:50
jottlcuk is famous for his woodwork :P02:50
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jottthey come not only with computer problems but also shacky tables and chairs to him :P02:51
moontigerso cool .... but i find one-handed reading with fbreader works fine in bed for me02:51
moontigerjott ... how do i remap the keys?02:52
moontigeris it that dreadful xmodmap thing?02:52
jottxmodmap should only be used for temporary changes.02:52
lcuki dont have to hold it up - when rotated portrait it rests on my chest and i just lightly grip - the old pda i used to use i could grip in a similar manner between my knuckles - at night im trying to relax and not have to grip anything02:52
moontigerlcuk... ok i get it ... works for me tho :)02:53
moontigerjott... so..... :)02:53
jottmoontiger: see /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr02:53
moontigerok cool :)02:53
moontigerwhat do you map those keys to btw?02:53
lcukthere is a tool to show you what keycodes are being returned from the keyboard i think02:54
moontigerxev does it i think no?02:54
lcukits likely thats what im thinking of :)02:54
moontigeryah i had to map some mouse buttons on my laptop using that02:55
jottmoontiger: that's mine (for a german hw layout)02:55
jottbut i think you can get the clue.02:55
lcukyou will need to know what codes your keyboard is sending so you can map them to useful keys02:55
moontigerthnx... looking now02:55
jotti also remapped the Chr key to be used as an extra modifier.02:55
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jott(so you can press chr , . to get extra brackets etc :)02:55
lcukim puttin my head back into some code02:56
moontigerthnx lcuk :)02:56
* moontiger checks the n810...02:57
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moontigerim so sick of sbox crashing all the time that i want to dev on the n81003:00
bef0rdsbox doesn't crash for me03:01
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jottdoesn't crash here either.03:03
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lcukmoontiger, few things about one device dev - gcc works, make works,  but configure doesnt (has dependency for debiantools which would bornek system), depending upon cpu setting compiling can be 10x slower or 100x slower than average desktop running vmware - incremental updates taking a couple of seconds is fine, but large projects take a long time03:05
lcukeasier to figure out whats crashing sbox - its known stable on lots of systems03:06
moontigerhmmmmmmm thnx lcuk03:06
* pahartik upgraded "Nokia 770" to "Maemo 2008 HE" and wonders if building "microb-engine" from source is only way to upgrade browser at moment03:06
moontigerwell its not sbox as such ... the diablo emulator stuff crashes on me a lot03:06
lcukwhy use the emulator?03:06
lcukdon't you have a device?03:06
jottmoontiger: i use the cvs-m version of qemu, works better here.03:07
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lcukif make; scp "newbinary ->n810/usr/bin"; fi03:07
lcuk+execute of course03:07
jottother than that you could also use sbrsh03:08
moontigeryou have the usb networking thing set up?03:08
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lcukno, wifi ssh03:08
lcuki used scratchbox for a couple of months at first before i moved ondevice03:08
moontigerim confused ... how does "n810/usr/bin" map to anything?03:09
jottyou have to know that lcuk is a heavy smoker and coding in his cigarette breaks :)03:09
moontigeris that an scp thing?03:09
jotthe just got the syntax wrong :)03:10
jottor semantics even :p03:10
jottbut the message was "use scp to copy it over" :)03:10
moontigerok cool np... so scp is the way to go over ssh03:10
jottyou can also use sshfs ..03:10
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moontigersshfs works on the n810?03:11
* moontiger slaps forhead 03:11
moontigerok that would be A LOT easier03:11
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moontigerthen i could write and send03:11
moontigerummmm where can i find sshfs?03:12
jottwell actually for mounting the n810 on your desktop you don't need anything special but a running ssh server ;)03:12
moontigerok hmmmm... so ssh server running on the n810 check... then how do i mount it on my desktop?03:12
jottother than that you can just install it.03:12
jottinstall sshfs and man sshfs? ;)03:13
moontigeron my laptop yes?03:13
jottbasically mkdir n810 && sshfs n810:/home/user n81003:13
moontigerjott... genius ... thanks so much :)03:14
moontigerdoing it now03:14
lcukyou have to know that jott is a heavy superhero and helpsppl in his underpants and cape :)03:14
jottmight be wise to do it outside of scratchbox and mount it somewhere in /scratchbox/home/user/$USER ..03:15
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moontigerright yes03:15
moontigerfor python i dont even need scratchbox anymore03:15
lcukjott, the maemovmware image thing, is it possible to take that wholesale and install it natively on my laptop from the image?03:15
lcukits just a ubuntu image isnt it03:16
jottuhm yes, i suppose that should work.03:16
moontigerthnx guys very much :)03:16
lcukim just thinking its already configured03:16
jottthere are various tutorials how to put a vmware image directly on the host.03:16
moontigerive been a dev d=for many years but this stuff is a bit new to me03:16
lcukmoontiger, :) ive been a windows dev for years.  you have a jump on me by having linux desktop..03:17
moontigerheh good to know im not the only one03:17
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moontigeri also do gtk stuff on the desktop which i love03:17
moontigerand a lot of php web stuff03:17
moontigerbut i was a windows dev (c++/mfc) for a long time03:18
lcuki started in c on the amiga - when i saw how shite c on windows was i hated it, visual basic has been my methadone for many years03:19
lcuk:) thankfully now im back in c and feeling happy, im even using all the optimisation training (from making vb fly) to make my nokia go quick :)03:20
moontigerthe amiga!!?? wow i wrote asm games for that thing for psygnosis03:20
lcuk:) well a personal thank you.  psygnosis produced some excellent games03:21
moontigerhahaha cool :)03:21
jottheh which games did you work on moontiger?03:21
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moontigerdo you remember "shadow of the beast" and "killing game show" ?03:22
robtaylormoontiger: f**king great games!03:22
lcuksotb was revolutionary for its time :)03:22
jottyes i do :)03:22
moontigeryeah well i worked on the killing game show and did the atari st conversion03:22
robtaylormoontiger: weren't you guys based in liverpool then?03:22
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moontigeryup in liverpoool but i lived in london03:23
moontigeri would commute up there once a week03:23
* robtaylor first learnt assembler on the the ST03:23
moontiger68000 :)03:23
robtaylordamn right03:23
lcukand to think they want to close down the northern cities :)03:23
robtaylorbest instruction set there was until the arm came out03:24
moontigeryah well i wouldnt live in the uk ever again i think03:24
robtaylormoontiger: really?03:24
moontigeryah it was awesome03:24
lcukarm is 68k on speed, the nokia should have its own custom chipset around it to make it perfect :)03:24
moontigerrob: nope ...03:24
moontigeryah ... a copper list processor and sound chip :)03:24
* lcuk dreams of pvr and iva help03:24
* robtaylor lives in the peak district and likes it very much ;)03:24
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moontigerpeak district is awesome ... my mom lives in sutton coldfield03:25
* lcuk lives in manchester and cant think of many nice things 03:25
robtaylorlcuk: hah, yeah I'd love to get the chance to play with those03:25
lcukalthough in the air n space museum today it was cool03:25
lcukrobtaylor, i hope we are close03:25
robtaylorlcuk: we are, i'm sure. I love just by ladybower on the snake pass03:26
moontigertrouble is i think they are focused more on battery life and email type uses03:26
lcuknokia have internal drivers and discussions are ongoing as to letting us get our mits on them03:26
robtaylor*live even03:26
robtaylormoontiger: well, i wouldn't say that really, there's intersting things happening all over the shop03:27
jottwell the internal drivers need some rewrite or big lawyer claws to make them gpl compliant :)03:27
moontigeryou guys are up late coding huh?03:27
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lcukmoontiger, i see playing movies as a big battery eater - and they want that happening - with all the other devices around having 3d i dont think us having such a slow graphics processor is good03:27
moontigerright yes03:27
lcukyes jott03:27
jottcoding 24/7 :O03:27
* robtaylor is supposed to be doing tinymail work for a client, but its all a bit tedious03:28
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lcukjott :) someone has to do it03:28
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robtaylorlcuk: got your hands on a beagle board yet?03:28
jott hehe03:28
lcukno rob - it has no screen and im not wasting money on something without touch03:29
moontigeris anyone working on the modest client at all?03:29
robtaylorlcuk: i'm sure with a bit of ingenuity you could scavenge parts from a 770 or so03:29
lcukill get next nokia touch device or pandora or something03:29
jottrobtaylor: i had the same thought :)03:30
robtaylormoontiger: yeah, nokia's still at work on modest03:30
jottmodding a beagleboard into a 770 would be awesome :)03:30
lcukits a cludge though and would need to stop me coding for ages to sort out something that big teams are working on03:30
robtaylormm, waiting for the next hardware rev is probably easier03:30
* lcuk lets the hardware people work on what they are good at and then port as required :)03:31
robtaylorI just wish imagination would realease suitably-licensed drivers for their shit03:31
GeneralAntillesmoontiger, lots of @nokia people.03:31
robtaylorbut i kinda doubt it'll ever happen03:32
moontigerGA... any chance of them making a usable interface??03:32
lcukim goin again, my head is swimming in layout and rendering and needs hacking away at03:33
jottyes, img tech could be a real problem :(03:33
moontigerttfn lcuk :)03:33
jottlcuk go go go :)03:33
robtaylormoontiger: imagination?03:34
lcukheh jott, you reminded me of kotzcarny then03:34
moontigerrob: no ... modest :)03:34
robinklcuk: The ColdFire is 68k on speed.03:34
arachnistlcuk: that'd be "kotczarny" rather03:35
robtaylormoontiger: oh, hmm, well, i havn't used it recently, but what are the problems?03:35
lcukcool robink, arachnist you are right03:35
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moontigerrob: things like setting fonts... switching accounts ... viewing accounts03:36
jottyeah switching accounts is really terrible.03:36
moontigerthe notification stuff03:36
moontigera lot of it is really good ... just the bad stuff makes it unusable imho03:36
robtaylormoontiger, jott: you should come up with some patches and throw them at them :)03:37
moontigerrob: let me get my first app written then i will dive in to that stuff03:37
robtaylorsergio on #tinymail is a good person to talk about modest development with.03:38
GeneralAntillesmoontiger, it's open source.03:38
GeneralAntillesHack it up.03:38
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* robtaylor heads to bed03:39
robtaylornight all03:39
* moontiger heads back to coding03:40
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robinkWill Maemo 5 support the MBX or just the SGX?04:06
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GAN800robink, you're kidding, right?04:08
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robinkWait, Maemo 4 supports the MBX?04:17
robink...or is the implication that Maemo 5 won't support the 2420 at all?04:18
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GAN800Nokia doesn't announce stuff like that. ;)04:21
GAN800If they did, the news would be plastered everywhere.04:21
GAN800The implication is that anybody outside of some key Nokia people knowing is an impossibility. :D04:21
robinkDoes Maemo 4 support the MBX?04:22
robinkI was never 100% clear on that.04:23
robinkAw, poop.04:24
GAN800No drivers support for PowerVR or IVA04:24
GAN800There's a possible light at the end of the tunnel.04:24
GAN800Check out the driver's justification page on the wiki.04:24
robinkGAN800: I'm looking at it, but I'm not seeing the light.04:27
GAN800Kate is on the talk page?04:27
GAN800The light is that we've got a dialog04:31
GAN800So we're way ahead of the game compared to most groups in a situation like this.04:31
robinkGAN800: Indeed.04:32
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pardsbaneHi, I got scratchbox2 running on OS X, but I'm having trouble with testing it out, is anyone around to help?06:27
bef0rdscratchbox2 is for maemo-sdk+, right?06:35
bef0rdoh, I'm still using sbox 106:36
pardsbaneyeah, I figured most people were, but I thought it might be worth a shot06:36
pardsbane:) I think its just some sort of wierd config issue, sb2 runs without crashing, but it seems to not be wrapping / intercepting correctly or something...06:37
pardsbanewhen sb1 is running, do all the commands run inside qemu?06:38
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bef0rdno, I believe it only 'redirects' some of them06:40
bef0rdso when using gcc on ARM target, it uses x86 gcc to generate the ARM binary06:41
trev0rwho knows how to get xmame working in diabo06:42
pardsbanehum. can you get a maemo environment up and running emulated on your desktop?06:42
pardsbanethats possible, right?06:42
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pardsbaneI downloaded the rootstrap.tgz and extracted that, then I can run sb2, but I can't figure out how to build the whole maemo environment06:46
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robinkpardsbane: You shouldn't need to build it.06:59
robinkpardsbane: Did you follow the scratchbox tutorial?06:59
pardsbaneWell, I'm using scratchbox 206:59
pardsbanebut I did follow all the docs there07:00
moontigerwhats the problem? maybe i can help :)07:00
pardsbaneI'm using sb2 because I believe there's no chance sb1 can run on OS X, but I sb2 should be able to07:00
pardsbaneok, well I got sb2 compile and running (I think) on OS X.07:00
pardsbanethe sb2 docs say to test it by sb2 by running something like this "sb2 apt-get source fontconfig", but when I do that I get weird results07:01
pardsbanespecifically, I get this:07:02
pardsbanepardsbane@Buran:~/maemo-root$ sb2 apt-get07:02
pardsbaneI guess the thing is I have the rootstrap-4.1 installed, but I don't know how to install the sdk or actually run any Maemo apps07:03
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timelywas someone planning on adding a comment noting that there *is* a fix?08:30
timelyGeneralAntilles? :(08:31
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GAN800He must've missed the topic.08:31
GAN800I'll poke him in the morning if I remember.08:32
GAN800On itT08:32
timelywell someone has used the "comments" field08:32
timelyi don't see anything wrong w/ a comment "aha, but you *can* fix it w/o waiting for nokia"08:32
timelyi'm still not sure about the branding thing08:38
timelyi was under the [mis?]understanding that os2008 would be able to not fix itself08:38
timelyand branding updates were only supposed to apply to future products08:38
* timely should try to figure out where that conclusion came from08:38
GAN800Not anywhere public08:39
GAN800Not anywhere that I've seen, anyway.08:40
timelyandre__: i think for now i'm going to ignore 358508:40
timelyi actually made the argument that Gmail was one of the apps broken by the feature08:40
timelybut if that guy can't even manage to point to gmail, he hasn't made a real case08:40
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GAN800Javascript irc made me laugg08:41
infobotGAN800 meant: Javascript irc made me laugh08:41
timelyit's technically correct08:42
timelybut i don't have any sympathy08:42
timelyi'd rather ditch the feature entirely in favor of a battery drain indicator08:42
timelywhich would force the user to take responsibility for the problem08:42
GAN800You shortened my summary with an ugly contraction! :P08:43
timelydoes load for you?08:43
* GAN800 cries foul!08:43
* timely is using safari1.x08:43
GAN800Give the tablets a 'mpg' meter?08:43
GAN800I like that idea.08:43
GAN800Fits with Nokia's whole 'green' line of bullshit08:44
GAN800It loads here08:44
timelyi get a very tall page w/ white wiki content08:44
GAN800Erm, dupe? bug.cgi?id=359308:45
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* GAN800 is a bit tired.08:45
timelyhow can you manually type bug urls?08:45
timely"easy fix" yeah right08:45
GAN800I cut'n'paste from MicroB.08:46
timelyum, it ate the _08:46
timelyisn't 3592 a dupe too08:46
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GAN800Maybe, it includes additional stuff from the original.08:47
GAN800I nominate andre__ to figure it out. ;)08:48
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* timely grumbles @
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RST38hmoorning, all09:02
timelyit might be good content, but if i were @nokiausa and loaded that in my browser, i'd be in trouble09:03
qwerty12morning RST38h09:03
RST38htimely: how much has nokia paid for this shit?=)09:03
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robinkDoes telepathy videoconference now?09:05
robinkIt sorta seems like it's capable, but I haven't tried.09:05
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rm_youGeneralAntilles: yo09:42
rm_youlcuk: ping09:42
robinkrm_you: Hello09:45
qwerty12wag1 rm_you09:45
rm_youqwerty12 / lcuk / GeneralAntilles: I'm thinking about making shirts with these logos:
rm_youi need like three more designs to make09:46
qwerty12Sorry, I haven't been looking at the logos.09:46
robinkrm_you: I like the last one.09:47
rm_youyeah, so do i, which is why i'm putting it on a shirt :p09:47
qwerty12rm_you: What about Khertan's?
rm_youi need MORE tho09:47
rm_youwith the middle  big image on the back and the left small image on the front pocket area09:48
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bef0rdhi lardman11:36
lardmanhi bef0rd11:36
* qwerty12 is happy to say I finally got rid of those annoying EAC messages in dmesg11:37
qwerty12hey lardman11:37
lardmanhi qwerty1211:37
bef0rdhi qwerty12.11:37
qwerty12hi bef0rd11:37
bef0rdoh, I read something about that on the back scroll, did fanoush help you?11:38
qwerty12Nah, fanoush had a patch to get rid of the menelaus setting voltage messages :)11:38
qwerty12Applied that and quickly patched the eac to get rid of those annoying play enabled, rec disabled messages when the sound was on.11:39
robinkHey lardman.11:40
robinkStill haven't done anything with the dsp-tremor stuff, but I'm looking at it.11:40
lardmanrobink: I pushed a load of changes against the mk2-use-builtin-malloc branch the other day11:41
robinklardman: I just grabbed 'em.11:41
lardmanit compiles, I've not tested it yet11:41
qwerty12lardman: btw, what is dsp-mp3 about? I thought the tablet shipped with a dsp mp3 decoder?11:41
robinkI still can't get the DSP code to compile.11:41
lardmanqwerty12: yeah, but this is one with source code, I want to implement OpenMAX style interfaces, so all the data can be kept on the DSP rather than needing to be passed back11:42
lardmanrobink: what's the problem?11:42
qwerty12Ah right :)11:42
robinklardman: You have a different build environment.11:42
robinklardman: It can't find avs_kernel.out, but that's not my main problem.11:42
lardmanrobink: yeah, well most of the paths should be pretty obvious, as they have the same name11:43
lardmanan, avs_kernel.out is on the device, in /lib/dsp/11:43
robinklardman: I don't have a cl55.11:43
robinklardman: I have a copy on my machine, getting the path for that sorted out.11:43
robinkOh wait, I do11:43
lardmanthose makefiles of mine are pretty messy, lots of stuff in there is not needed11:44
lardman is the contents of one of the custom dirs11:45
lardmanalso, all the libs are not really required, they do no harm, but you'll get linker errors if you start using the fns contained within them as they already existin avs_kernel.out11:47
* lardman is not all that hot on Makefiles, once one works, he leaves well alone until it really needs to be fixed11:48
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RST38hlardman, hey11:48
lardmanhi RST38h11:48
RST38hAnything new and exciting on the a2dp front?11:48
lardmanno, I tried a new branch using shared memory transfers - I think I wrote to the list about this11:49
lardmanbut no real difference when decoding video, still very low fps11:49
lardmanI was thinking of testing playing videos of different bitrates and most importantly wxh sizes, so see if it's actually bandwidth related11:49
lardmannot got round to it yet11:50
lardmans/wxh/width x height11:50
lardmanI also need to look into qwerty12's problem11:50
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lardmanqwerty12: what was the name of that file you sent me?>11:52
qwerty12lardman: Can't remember >.<. It was a lethal bizzle track though11:52
* qwerty12 searches his hard drive11:52
lardmancould you send it again, I seem to have mislaid it11:52
robinkargh, can't get tokliBIOS compiled.  I also might have the wrong set of tools.11:52
qwerty12no problems :). Thanks for taking the time to look into it :)11:53
lardmanyou don't need to compile tokliBios11:53
lardmanthe dsp kernel is toklibios + Nokia closed source components, you only need the header files to link against11:53
lardmanto build with rather11:53
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robinklardman: Ah.11:56
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lardmanThe dsp gateway docs are somewhat confusing, I began thinking I needed to compile that too11:58
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lardmanqwerty12: where does the corruption happen>12:02
* lardman feels his ears bleeding ;)12:02
qwerty12lardman: a few seconds from the offset. The whole track is like that :)12:02
lardmanah yes12:03
lardmanpretty bad corruption really12:03
qwerty12Yeah :/. Still though, sbc-dsp is brilliant though to say that's the only track it happens on though :)12:05
lardmanwell it doesn't sound timing related, I can hear the backbeat still12:06
lardmananyone know of tools I could use to chop out 10s or so of an mp3 and convert it to an .au file (because that's what the test code accepts by default)?12:08
lardmaninteresting, that song is mono12:09
qwerty12yeah, been looking for a better mp3...12:09
lardmanjust wondering if there's an error there - all of my tracks are stereo, so I never notice12:10
lardmanplus the a2dp code presumes that a stereo track is provided iirc12:10
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qwerty12lardman: I can get you an 9 second au, should the au be u-law or pcm?12:12
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lardmanu-law iirc12:12
lardmanneeds to be big endian, otherwise I'll have to rewrite the test code (which I should probably do anyway...)12:13
lardmanbut hang fire, I'm going to reencode one of my working mp3s to mono, see if that does the same12:13
lardmanif so, we know where the problem lies, if not, your file would be useful12:14
qwerty12Hmm, not sure if it's big endian.12:14
qwerty12Ok, if you want it:
lardmanhmm, I wonder if I can get lame to reencode your mp3 as a stereo track and just repeat the mono for both L & R?12:18
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zaplardman: you can use lame+sox for that12:21
lardmanzap: thanks, have reencoded a stereo track to mono and it shows the same effect12:22
lardmanqwerty12: it's a mono problem, now time to test if I've made a mistake, or it's a limiation of the bluez implementation (iircit hardcodes the output parameters)12:23
qwerty12lardman: ok, thanks12:23
* qwerty12 hits the frostwire meanwhile :P12:23
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lardmanqwerty12: looks like some issue in my code, bluez correctly asks for mono data to be encoded, I'll look into it12:33
qwerty12Ok, thank you.12:33
* qwerty12 is trying to find out why omweather won't give me the gradient :(12:34
qwerty12lardman: I get some ugly grey thing :(12:35
qwerty12(No the "ugly grey thing" isn't the gradient)12:35
lardmanah right, bg12:36
lardmanI don't get a gradient either12:37
qwerty12So it isn't just me, thanks for checking :)12:38
lardman~lart desktop applets for being a pita to move12:41
* infobot beats desktop applets severely about the head and shoulders with a rubber chicken for being a pita to move12:41
* qwerty12 's problem is that they move too easily :)12:41
lardmanyeah, well on or the other, just never when you want! :)12:41
qwerty12Sometimes, the applets get stuck while moving, I have to open and close the application menu and then start moving again12:43
* qwerty12 has no idea why mce will hang on shutdown when I disable kernel debugging12:43
Khertgan_againthe old way to move applet was far better12:44
qwerty12Someone should look at and apply the good stuff to ;)12:46
lardmangood point12:47
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lardmango on qwerty12, you must be bored getting up at 11 and playing playstation all day long! ;)12:47
* lardman is jealous of school holidays :)12:47
qwerty12lardman: I'm a n00b, I get up at 6:30 each day and I don't have a playstation :P :D12:48
zapqwerty12: how you managed to recompile cx3110, I thought sources were available, but they seems not?12:48
lardmanqwerty12: well everyone has to start somewhere and it's not very hard12:48
qwerty12lardman: true :)12:49
lardmanrobink: how are you getting on?12:49
qwerty12zap: I got sources from here. . I had to make quite a few changes before it would compile properly for me though.12:49
zapah, cool :) so they're still available12:49
zapwhy that nokia guy told you then that they aren't?12:50
lardmanand he doesn't think he could patch the desktop! ;)12:50
qwerty12zap: umac and mtum sources are closed12:50
lardmanzap: there's two bits, a wrapper and the binary blob12:50
zaplike nvidia drivers?12:50
lardmanis the blob not completely isolated from kernel structures then?12:50
lardmanzap: yeah that sort of thing12:51
lardmanotherwise no-one should even want to recompile it12:51
qwerty12no idea. wlancond (the wrapper) sources are here:
robinklardman: I'm closer, but I'm giving up for the night as it's almost 3AM here.12:52
lardmanno worries, drop me a line or catch me here if you need any more help getting setup12:53
zap770 uses a different chip?12:54
qwerty12zap: yes12:54
qwerty12the predecessor of the one in N8x012:54
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lardmanrobink: still getting a bus error12:55
qwerty12zap: if you want to recompile and sources from nokia give you undefined symbols, try this copy: . Using mamona patch, dummy-umac.c from the old cx version (which nokia took out, and I have no idea why because symbols are defined from there) and 1% own thinking, I made source archive that compiles fine. Just get umac.ko from initfs and place it in cx3110x-module-src-2.0.15. Ed12:57
qwerty12it makefile to reflect location of your kernel sources too.12:57
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RST38h"Western Digital Working On a 20,000 RPM Drive"13:16
RST38hNow, THAT is going to be the real weapon of terror13:16
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jaskaweapon of mass data destruction13:23
* qwerty12 thought that was a magnet. *evil grin*13:24
qwerty12ironically, the magnet I took from  my old hard drive has to be the best I've ever used13:24
jaskayeah drives have pretty oomphy magnets13:24
lbtand the platters make nice coasters...13:25
jaskasmooth.. unless the heads took a dive13:25
lbtand shaving mirrors13:25
lardmanwhat are 64kHz ogg vorbis files like?13:29
lardmanin terms of quality?13:30
lbtsince humans can't hear above ~18kHz13:30
lardmanah I see, I think it may be a bitrate rather than audio freq13:30
lbtI find my 320kbps mp3's lack some bass compared to flac13:31
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lardmanso pretty crappy then probably13:31
lbtOTOH, in the car at 95mph....13:32
lbtwho cares13:32
lardmanhmm, the tables to decode anything >64kHz data are too large to fit in memory13:32
lardmanwell I'm just reading from the code13:32
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lardman#ifdef LIMIT_TO_64kHz13:33
lardman    if (vi->rate>=64000 || ci->blocksizes[1]>2048){13:33
lbtah - that could be differen13:33
lbtthat could be subsampling13:33
lardmanhmm, will have to ping derf13:33
lardmanderf: ping13:33
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Mace_cant download gftp13:40
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JaffaMorning, all13:48
lardmanhi Jaffa13:50
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Stskeepsqwerty12: how boned is one if there's a corrupt initfs? unable to reflash through usb? (just curious and you seem to know a lot :P)14:06
qwerty12Stskeeps: Unless the flash chip is physically damaged, reflashing through usb works fine :)14:07
Stskeepsokay, so it's a process that starts before initfs is started?14:07
qwerty12NOLO handles the flashing. Nolo is started before initfs and kernel14:09
qwerty12(It also contains the white nokia logo :>)14:09
Stskeepsthat's good14:09
* Stskeeps plans to mess a bit around with his bootmenu idea today, so14:10
Stskeepsand wanted to make bloody sure i can resurrect my tablet if i mess up ;)14:10
lbtStskeeps: I wanted to document the debian boot here:
lbtI've been doing some messing around with the bootmenu14:11
lbtgetting to know it...14:11
lbtmaking it cycle back to the menu when the boot fails rather than defaulting to flash14:12
lbtdead easy shell script14:12
Stskeepslbt: very interesting page indeed .. Debian booting will be a little altered compared to maemo booting if i have my way14:12
Stskeepsbecause i'm tired of some of the hacks initfs does :)14:12
lbtyes - my whole objective was to have debian and std14:12
lbtco-exist on a multi-boot :)14:12
lbtthe bullet list at the top is what my goal was14:13
Stskeepsread my bootmenu proposal?14:13
lbtI didn't know at the time about your installer14:13
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lbtnot yet - where?14:13
Stskeepsbloody paste14:13
* qwerty12 goes for excessive cosmetic hacks: &
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lbt(actually - it struck me that we could maybe get NOLO to boot multiple kernels using an offset table in the flash)14:14
lbttada - grub :)14:14
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lbtI don't read itt (for no good reason - just habit and slow internet)14:14
Stskeepsa way to do the bootmenu add stuff would be immensely useful for any multiboot project14:14
lbtdid you see my bug14:15
Stskeepslbt: "mobile ii" theme is acceptable on slow internet :P i'll just cp somewhere14:15
Stskeepswhich one? i've been out of the loop for two weeks due to exams14:15
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Stskeepsah, thought you meant a Deblet bug :)14:16
Stskeepsbut yeah, that one is a problem14:16
Stskeeps is my proposal14:16
lbt<shame>I don't have deblet installed yet </shame>14:17
lbtI wanted to install it 'raw' so I understand it better14:17
Stskeepsmeh, i don't blame you, there's a showstopper fsck bug atm :P14:17
Stskeepsand sound doesn't work14:17
lbtsound not important14:18
Stskeepsthe installation procedure is pretty well documented and all hacks are structured14:18
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lbtI was looking for a less "1-click" way to do it - and I've only just fixed multiboot reliably14:19
lbtso deblet is next14:19
Stskeepsdeblet will get better installer soon, some guy made a gtk python module that can be used14:19
Stskeepsthe main challenge for deblet right now is having a "proper" bootmenu so we can add boot menu entries that match deblet needs14:20
Stskeepsthat paves the way for 1-2 click installs14:20
lbtlike I say - I want to edit bootmenu.conf and linuxrc by hand to make it work ;)14:20
lbtthen I can help write a pytk14:20
Stskeepsbasically what i need from bootmenu is 1) the bootmenu add ability 2) ability for linuxrc to boot a system by putting old /tmp on /boot or whatever instead, and -not fuck around with /var/run and /tmp-14:22
Stskeepsby some boot menu setting14:22
lcukwow!  i sent a mail on May 22, i got a bounce back today.14:22
* lcuk facepalms14:22
aquatixlcuk: to hotmail or something?14:22
lbtold /tmp?14:22
lcukdunno, some domain14:22
lcuknot big mail provider14:23
Stskeepslbt: lemme just boot up my tablet.. sec14:23
aquatixfriend of mine got a few bounces from mail sent 1 year ago from the hotmail servers14:23
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lcukwell the error is "mailbox is full: retry timeout exceeded"14:24
lcukmustv tried for a looooooooooong time14:25
aquatixheh, indeed14:25
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lbt<grin> I have no clue where my tablet is... but I can ssh to it14:26
Stskeepslbt: <- this part14:26
lbtI'm just copying initfs to my local host to play...14:26
Stskeepsit causes chaos on booting non-maemo systems :P14:26
lcuklbt, play an mp3 with it14:27
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lbtat the moment I think bootmenu may do better exec'ing a new linuxrc14:27
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Stskeepswell that's one way and reverting to old boot method if it's nonexistent, like on maemo14:29
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lbtyep. (if -f, run, exit)14:30
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fijalI'm trying to follow this instructions:
fijaland it cannot run gcc14:32
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fijalsaying /usr/bin/gcc: no such file or directory14:32
fijalwhile gcc-3.4 works14:32
fijalbut cannot invoke say as14:32
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timelyanyone know if n810s ship w/ diablo?15:10
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Mace_anybody know where i could get gftp?15:14
Mace_been looking for it with no luck15:15
lcuki love my missus :D15:15
lcuk"heat up the frying pan, im on my way back with bacon!"15:15
Mace_either downed servers15:15
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crashanddietimely, don't think so15:27
crashanddietimely, remember, the n800 shiped with OS2007, even though OS2008 was around for quite a while15:27
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jottthat might also have been stock devices. afair i had a newer version on my n810 than the release one, but i can't remember for sure.15:37
lcukapt-get install bacon15:37
lcukmornin jott / crashanddie15:38
jotthey lcuk.15:38
jottbacon sounds delicious :)15:38
lcukperfect for a sunday mornin15:38
jottas always:  :)15:39
lcuk:D heh xkcd is pure genius15:40
lcukjott, when you are doin stuff in qt, what units do you specify widgets in?  is it still all pixel based and what happens when used in different resolutions?15:42
jottpixels, yes15:42
jottbut the layout manager takes care of most of the stuff.15:43
lcukbut how does that work if you design buttons (for instance) to be 256*256 pixels and then compiled and used on maemo15:44
lcukdoesnt that really fsck things up15:44
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jottlcuk: you just rearly need to specify exact sizes.15:45
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jottthe button size can be determined by the label text size.15:45
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jottbut yeah, you might have problems with different dpis15:45
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* lcuk sees if more bacon hepls15:48
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jottpixel metric has the advantage of being integer based.15:50
lcukanything can be integer based - the layout manager im doing now is actually using 22500 dpi :)15:50
lcuk80000 * 4800015:50
jotthaha well but you can't bring everything to a common denominator :)15:51
lcukbut it builds the widget tree using whatever dimensions are required to give a total required size - then scales the entire thing to fit on screen15:51
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lardmanlcuk: more bacon always helps15:52
lcuk:D wondered when you would smell it15:52
* lcuk is really laughin now15:52
lardmanJust been to town for a blt to help recover from the hangover15:53
lardmanit's done wonders15:54
lcukthe missus just soaked hers up with one, im just strengthening my arteries :)15:54
lcukthe more ui i build, the more of a media manager i find i need15:55
lcukdoes anyone store media anywhere other than ~/My Docs; /media/mmc1; /media/mmc2 ?15:56
RST38hlcuk, are you going to best canola?15:58
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lcukno, but to get the best ui for my sketch files i find that i can display images in the same way, and when i think about it i can throw in .text documents for free and view them with the reader element15:59
lardmanwhat about throwing in audio and video files too...? :)15:59
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lcukand so its not much further to do av15:59
lcuklardman, you took the words out of my mouth15:59
lardmango lcuk!15:59
lardmanI'll buy you some bacon in Berlin, if they do bacon that is... :)16:00
lcukthe thing is, my sketch folder has ~1000 items, im sorting and listing by date now and breaking into days16:00
lardmanI've been summoned to do the washing up, bbiab16:00
jottlcuk ultimate goal is to replace everything and make liqos :)16:00
RST38hthat is always the ultimate goal16:00
lcukheh jott, all this is nothing new, its just i can touch this code16:00
* RST38h has almost got full screen switch working16:01
RST38hbut something is swallowing keypresses16:01
lcukcheap hooker?16:01
lcukis this for sliderule?16:01
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liriRST38h: can you email me that sample project for the system tray icon?16:05
lcukliri - the scratchbox hello world puts a clicker in the tray16:08
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lcukat least im sure it does16:09
timelessgan: ping16:10
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RST38hliri: Your email address?16:12
timelessis prboably what i was thinking about16:12
RST38hlcuk: yep16:12
liriRST38h: liran.tal@gmail.com16:13
lirilcuk: when you say tray do you mean the left side pane or the upper right pane?16:13
derflardman: Pong.16:13
lcukim sure it puts a clicker all over the place - they all just lead to a helloworld box16:13
lcukie, menu desktop system tray16:14
lirilcuk: I don't think it puts anything in the system tray (i.e: where the batter icon is) because I simply don't see it in the code, no reference to an icon16:14
lirilcuk: I saw a python code uses pixbuf function so I'm guessing I'm supposed to see that as well16:14
lcukliri, dont worry RST38h has sent you one :)16:15
pardsbaneIs anyone online familiar with scratchbox 2 and Maemo SDK+?16:16
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dannymhi :)16:19
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dannymcrashanddie: I, for one, welcome our furry heroes O_o16:25
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lardmanderf: I wanted to ask about 64kHz rate, and what that means?16:27
lardmanlcuk: I was thinking of that MS demo with a large page of little icons, which can be zoomed into and each one is the entire file16:27
derflardman: In what context?16:27
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lardmanderf: in ivorbiscodec.h I have a define: #define LIMIT_TO_64kHz 116:28
lcuklardman, ive got a zoomable sketch wiki in mind.  coding time may be an issue - theres a lot of framework needed first16:28
lardmanderf: this affects what's created in window_lookup.h: #ifndef LIMIT_TO_64kHz16:29
lardmanstatic const ogg_uint16_t vwin4096[2048] = {16:29
* lcuk has so many things to try and do and so little time16:29
lardmanlcuk: always the way :)16:29
lcukthey should all come together nicely once i get this tile ui in place16:29
lardmanderf: and it's checked in _vorbis_unpack_info() where it's got a check that if vi->rate>=64000, return(OV_EBADHEADER);16:30
derfThat makes very little sense.16:30
derfI think that's actually referring to the block size.16:31
derfThough maybe that particular block size is only used at higher sampling rates? But that's an encoder decision, not a decoder decision.16:31
lardmanderf: yeah, the check is there because the extra lookup tables are too large to be placed in memory on the DSP16:31
liriRST38h: isn't that for the plugin framework?16:32
lardmanderf: so currently it just refuses to decode these files, I was wondering what affect only decoding these <64kHz files will have: what does it mean for quality and are most files inside or outside this limit, etc.16:33
derfWell, 64kHz is rather a high sampling rate.16:34
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lardmanok that's good16:34
lardmanI must have been unlucky with the new test file I chose :)16:35
derfBut there are, d.g., DVD sources that use 96kHz sampling rates.16:35
derfSo it's not unheard of.16:35
lardmanI was just worried that it wouldn't be able to play many files in the wild16:36
derfIf I had to guess, I'd say that limit was probably put in there because the original output device couldn't handle it.16:36
lardmanfair enough16:36
lardmanI think it may also be memory related, the lookup tables are quite large16:36
derfOnly about 16K, right?16:37
lardmanthat's a lot of memory on a DSP! :)16:37
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derfI think the larger problem was the decoded audio data at that block size.16:38
derfSince you have to keep around a bunch of samples for overlap-add.16:38
derfIn multiple channels.16:38
lardmanin any case there's not enough memory allocated for static info (to handle the extra window data) in the current DSP kernel16:39
derfHow much memory does the DSP actually have?16:39
lardmanso I'll go with the 64kHz limit and not worry about the additional problems of the overlap stuff16:39
lardmanDARAM is 64kB, SARAM is 96kB16:40
derfAnd these tables would go in SRAM?16:40
derfWhat's taking up the other 80k?16:40
lardmanthe kernel has to keep its working memory somewhere, also the task stacks and heaps, etc.16:41
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lardmanback in a bit16:42
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derfI'm out of town at the moment, so I probably won't be.16:42
lardman|afkno worries, thanks for your help16:44
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pardsbaneanyone familiar with The Maemo SDK+?17:00
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dannympardsbane: that depends on which part :)17:03
pardsbanewell, I'm trying to use the SDK+ with scratchbox 2... but on a Mac...17:04
pardsbaneI got scratchbox2 installed on the Mac, after some porting issues, but I can't figure out how to install the maemo sdk17:04
pardsbaneI've got this file:, but it won't run, because it can't find scratchbox 117:05
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dannympardsbane: well, that's a shell script so I guess you could edit the check out :)17:17
dannympardsbane: run it with "sh -x" to find out where it is approximately :)17:18
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pardsbaneyeah, I've been reading through the script17:18
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pardsbanelooks like it downloads the rootstrap (which I already did), but then I'm not sure exactly what happens.17:19
pardsbanedo you have the maemo sdk+ installed? Can you tell me what is in your sources.list file?17:19
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aquatixwtf, een fullscreen flash thing?17:23
* aquatix closes tab again17:23
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apolis it possible to select a dns for a specific wifi network?17:27
lbtStskeeps: ping.... use bootmenu.d/*17:30
Stskeepslbt: hum?17:31
* timeless looks for a guinea pig17:31
lbtinstead of bootmenu add17:31
lbtuse a bootmenu.d/17:32
Stskeepslbt: yeah, that sounds sane17:32
lbtand it's the debian way :)17:32
lbtfunny what you think about over lunch...17:32
Stskeepsi'm kinda thinking of having bootmenu mount mtdblock4 or something ro and get the /etc/bootmenu.d or something.. would make things flexible17:33
Stskeepsfor pre-diablo systems17:33
Stskeepsand for diablo systems get it from /mnt/initfs/etc/bootmenu.d17:33
lbtI was thinking about having a kexec capable kernel and putting multiple kernels in mtdblock417:34
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Stskeepsyeah.. fanoush was working on kexec17:34
lbtbut yes, I see what you mean17:34
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lbtWhy isn't initfs rw in pre-diablo?17:35
lbthas anyone checked?17:35
lbtIs it a kernel limitation?17:35
Stskeepsyou can but there's just too bloody little space so there's high risk of coruption17:35
Stskeepsdiablo images make initfs bigger (more safe to mess around)17:35
lbteraseblock thing17:35
Stskeepsyou do any of the bootmenu deriatives or just messing about a bit?17:36
lbtI've been busy on other things - just thinking at the moment17:36
Stskeepsi'd love a bootmenu deriative supporting a bootmenu.d17:37
Stskeepsand maybe one that would allow for linuxrc17:37
jotta touchscreen based bootmenu would be nice too.17:37
lbtshould be fairly easy - I'll look at that as a task if you can wait a few days17:37
Stskeepsyeah, sure17:37
Stskeepslinuxrc as in skipping the "boot" procedure in linuxrc and going straight for linuxrc17:38
lbtjott - if you can play with kevent17:38
lbtto provide the input...17:38
jottlbt: tslib should run fine in the initfs.17:38
lbtStskeeps: I knew what you meant - a one line hack to initfs to run a maemo-community iinitfs sounds sane17:39
lbtand may get in in Nokia17:39
lbtjott: never come across it17:39
Stskeepslbt: well there is if [ -e /etc/initfs.config ]; then . /initfs.config17:39
Stskeepsin linuxrc17:39
jottlbt: quiet standard abstraction layer lib for touchscreens.17:40
lbtStskeeps: true17:40
Stskeepsand initfs.config isn't in use17:40
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lbtnot surprising since it tests for one thing and sources another....17:41
Stskeepslbt: but i meant more like instead of doing the var/run and /tmp and stuff things, run a linuxrc, non-chrooted off the partition and let it chroot itself in17:41
Stskeepswell you could make it work with an empty /etc/initfs.config and a full in /initfs.config17:41
lbtOK, I'll work on this over the next few days...17:42
Stskeepssounds good :)17:43
Stskeepsthe linuxrc thing would mean people would have to make less hacks to boot other distros for instance17:44
Stskeepsso you can avoid cleaning up the mess initfs creates17:44
lbtand it's under our control and doesn't mess too much with the Nokia std distro17:44
lbtand if it all stays under a single / directory17:45
lbtthen we can ask that the Diablo reflash copies / in and runs17:45
lbtor something17:45
lbtthen multi-boot works after a normal update17:45
apolis it possible to select a dns for a specific wifi network? where can I find any info about it?17:46
lbthey - it doesn't need to be LSB17:46
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Stskeepsi'm actually inclined towards a /etc/bootmenu.d being on the internal rootfs.. because then to reapply boot menu after a initfs it would be a matter of reflashing17:49
Stskeepsif nokia doesn't get their act together17:49
lbtyes - I was making some requirements notes and that was in it.17:50
lbtI bet /initfs.config could be made super small and just mount rootfs ro and execute the new bootmenu17:51
timelesslbt/jott: please? :)17:51
timelessguinea pigging is cheap17:52
lbtI'd rather think things through, then code it right ;)17:52
lbtwere you trying to sleep?17:53
timelesstry installing that17:53
timelesssee if you can use it to break the backup app17:53
timelessif it doesn't work, /msg timelyx w/ what i need to do to fix it so it does break the app17:53
lbtoh, OK I thought you meant something else - apologies, I'll take a look.17:54
lbttimeless: will it run on chinook?17:55
infobotlbt meant: timeless: should it run on chinook?17:55
lbtor diablo17:55
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timelessi hope so17:58
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timelessrun is an odd word18:09
timelessit doesn't actually have an application :)18:09
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lbtI just installed it on my chinook test18:09
lbtand then ran backup - ticked only 'settings'18:09
lbtall fine :)18:09
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lbtdoing a 'full' backup now18:10
lbtyep - that's fine too...18:11
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MakeGhoHi. Anyone know of a music tracker for n810?18:34
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rm_youGeneralAntilles: ping18:42
rm_youlcuk: ping18:44
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mikkov_MakeGho: this could work
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jott~lart qemu18:56
* infobot holds qemu to the floor and spanks him with a cat-o-nine-tails18:56
timelesslbt: hrm, so ... did the files not get installed?18:56
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jottMakeGho: milkytracker is nice.
lbtfiles? just the one I think...18:57
MakeGhothanks, I'll try it18:57
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lbtthe /home/user/.bugs-maemo-3591/\#test/case file is there and the /etc/osso-backup/applications one18:59
timelesshrm, if you run backup19:00
timelessand then xterminal19:00
timelessand from xterminal, do strace -f -p `pid-of osso-backup`19:00
lbtI did a backup of just 'settings'19:00
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timelessand then start a settings backup19:01
timelessdoes it list those two paths?19:01
lbtapt-get install strace doesn't work19:01
lbtE: Package strace has no installation candidate19:01
lbtwhat repo19:01
lbtI only have extras-devel on the test rootfs19:01
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mikkov_diablo/tools or diablo/sdk19:02
timelesshas it19:02
lbtchinook rootfs19:02
qwerty12Oh chinook, use timeless's link then19:02
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lbtso it loops forever19:05
lbtuntil I kill the strace19:05
lbtthen it works...19:05
timelesswait, err19:05
timelesscan you pastebin a portion of the strace19:05
lbtwell. I didn't wait forever19:05
lbtI'm using ssh, not xterm19:06
timelesslbt: so ... it actually does finish if you detach?19:07
timelessthat doesn't make sense19:07
lbtyes, no19:07
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timelesscreate a #case directory containing a test file19:07
timelesstry again19:07
lbtI have /media/mmc2/backups/Backup03/settings.zip19:08
timeless*as a sibilng of #test)19:08
lbtbut no unzip19:08
timelessyou have microb, right?19:08
timelessok, uninstall the package, and try installing it again19:10
timeless(from i've updated the package)19:10
lbterr that gave me help on jar19:11
lbttoo few /s probably19:11
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timelessjust jar:file://{unixpath}!/19:11
timelessyou can start by typing '/' into the addressbar19:12
timelessand then clicking to browse to the file19:12
lbtgot it..19:12
timelessfrom the parent of the zip, csm copy link19:12
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lbt#test contains case contains hello19:12
lbtnot used jar: syntax b419:13
timelessit's a gecko syntax19:13
lbtso anyway, the file was backed up - this is the interrupted strace19:13
timelessok, uninstall the package19:13
timelessgo back to my web server and install again19:14
timelessand try again19:14
lbttum te tum...19:14
lbtsame version?19:15
timelessi'm evil :)19:15
lcukrm_you, u hollered19:15
rm_youlol yes19:15
* lcuk tries to focus19:15
rm_youbeen asking about logos for a few days19:15
rm_youtimeless, could use your opinion too :P19:16
lcukhave you?19:16
rm_youI'm thinking about making shirts with these logos:
rm_youi need like three more suggestions19:16
timelessof what?19:16
crashanddie -- Hope 2008 Torrent19:16
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lcukso this is a sub-logo contest and we are all on the panel?19:17
lbtit didn't like that...19:17
timelessok, someone nearby prefers the butterfly19:17
timelesssaying "it's cute"19:17
timelesswait, you want *more* shirts to add to the list?19:17
* timeless sighs19:17
lcukbut girls arent comin to the summit (are they?)19:18
lbt[underscore was in my list]19:18
lcukor was that your affeminate side timeless19:18
timelesslcuk: it wasn't me, i found a random female and asked19:18
lcukunderscore wins for being the closest to a nipple19:18
lbtyou didn't see the madonna logo then...19:19
lcuk:D heh no19:19
timelesswait, we're the list of options?19:19
timelessoh, nm, got em19:19
lbtanyhow timeless that killed it19:20
fredHi - why is $XDG_DATA_HOME set to /usr/share/mime on Diablo?19:21
fredAccording to the spec (and what many apps expect), this is for user-specific data files19:21
fredand the 'user' user doesn't have write access to that location19:21
lcuki like this one:
lbtlcuk :
qwerty12big mac anyone?19:22
lcuki think more of Mmmmmmmmmmm I'm lovin it!19:22
lbtafter a while you see mickey mouse ears on the golden arches19:22
lcukThe nipples are more like comical mickey mouse ears :D19:22
lbtif you aren't getting any then it's nipples19:22
pardsbanedoes anyone know why I get "could not open lock file" when I run apt-get in scratchbox 2?19:22
lbtnot saying which judge saw the nipples...19:22
lbtpardsbane: fakeroot?19:23
lbttimeless: ping if you need me19:23
pardsbanehum, don't think I'm supposed to be using fakeroot yet19:24
fredah, there's a bug filed19:25
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pardsbanewierd, I think I messed up my IRC terminal19:30
timelessok, one vote for:
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Kegetysthat looks like maemo would be a tetris game19:41
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timelessok, one vote for:
Stskeepslbt: , (bootmenu.d)19:56
Stskeepsit only adds like a sec or two to boot process to mount mtdblock4 and unmount it again :P19:56
lbtmaybe have a *tiny* /initfs.config that simply mounts mtd4 ro and then runs from there...19:57
lbtthen installing multiboot becomes a touch of a file and a copy of a tiny one...19:57
Stskeepswell, yeah, but there is a risk of a corrupt mtdblock4 atleast19:57
lbtwhich means you use the same install process on all tablets19:57
lbtwell, no editing of files - so no erase19:57
lbtjust a create of a dir entry19:58
lbtand a *tiny* file19:58
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lbt(dir entry is the /etc/config that is tested for and the tiny file is the /config that is sourced)19:58
Stskeepshmm.. string injection20:03
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apolis it possible to select a dns for a specific wifi network? where can I find any info about it?20:14
lbtapol: if you control the dhcp server then you can do it there20:14
apolso i have to configure the dhcp server? isn't it possible to do from the gui?20:15
jottapol: you can go to the connection settings20:15
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lbtor by script in somewhere like /etc/network/if-up.d/ you could maybe test for ip allocation and do stuff20:16
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lbt(I assume you're not looking for a gui)20:16
apoli don't really care if it is in gui, but I need to be able to select a dns for certain connections20:17
mikkov_jott: same problem with cmake as I had ;)20:18
crashanddieapol, yeah, it's possible20:18
lbtwell, /etc/network would be a good place to start looking - then hack /etc/resolv.conf - possibly have 3 or 4 resolv.conf files and symlink in the one you need20:18
lbtI used to do that when I varied dialup providers20:19
crashanddieapol, disconnect, connection settings -> connections -> select connection -> edit -> tap next 3 times; tap advanced -> ip adresses tab, uncheck "auto-retrieve DNS"20:19
lbtor do that :D20:20
apolcrashanddie: that was cool20:20
Stskeepsgah, screwed up my initfs :P20:21
* Stskeeps finds his usb cable20:21
qwerty12Stskeeps, you did make a backup with mtd-tools right? :P20:22
qwerty12anyway, gtg, byw20:22
qwerty12bye even20:22
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KucukMubasirwhich language is preferred for maeme :S c or c++ ?21:06
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KucukMubasiris qt used with maemo?21:10
lcukyou can use whatever you like21:12
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lcukqt community edition is underway, but most current stuff is gtk21:12
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eichiis there no way to activate bluetooth faster then going to the control center?21:16
KucukMubasirisn't there any "the most efficient/suitable language for maemo development"?21:16
rm_youwheee, back21:17
rm_yougot called away for house chores21:17
KucukMubasirwhich would you advice me to use ? python or C++ for maemo development?21:17
rm_youanywho, i also like the one you suggested lcuk, will add that to the list21:17
rm_youtimeless, any suggestions to ADD? :P21:17
lcukKucukMubasir, just write in what you are happiest with, if thats c (like me) great, if thats c++ (like others) great, if you find python acceptable, thats ok as well21:17
lcukKucukMubasir, its your decision :)21:18
rm_youi want to have a different maemo shirt for each day i'm in berlin21:18
rm_youi thought the c++ bindings for some things were still a bit iffy21:18
rm_yousame with python21:18
lcukdepends what you are doing21:18
KucukMubasirlcuk: so there isn't any difference in terms of efficiency among the languages?21:18
rm_youKucukMubasir: oh, there is21:18
rm_youC is best21:18
rm_youpython is probably slowest...21:18
KucukMubasirok that's what i am looking for21:18
rm_youC++ in the middle21:18
rm_youthat has nothing to do with platform, that's true everywhere you look21:19
lcukbut thats not maemo, thats worldwide21:19
rm_youlcuk: yes :p21:19
rm_youyou said that much more succinctly :)21:19
KucukMubasirso there isn't any specific language like other platforms; for instance, if your are to develop symbiand or qt you must prefer c++ ?21:19
jaskasymbians idea of c++ is... rather perverse21:20
lcuk"i would like to develop and deploy a desktop applet written in brainf*ck, could you point me to the bindings file"21:20
KucukMubasirjaska why do you say so?21:20
glass_because it's true21:20
glass_as the flavor isn't the same as on anything else..21:21
lcukbecause c++ can be taken so many different ways some are more perverse and abusive and further away from sensible c than others21:21
rm_youcmon people, i need more suggestions for maemo logos to put on shirts21:21
rm_youalso... are there, err.... legal issues if I put contest submission logos on shirts and then sell a few at the summit? >_>21:22
lcukyes, so design your own21:22
lcukmake an xkcd variation21:22
rm_youit would be cheaper (and i think helpful for other people, actually) to buy a few more shirts of each and then sell them basically for cost21:22
lcukmake one with a fat penguin21:23
rm_youwhat license are the submitted logos under?21:23
lcuksubmitted under the "anyone can print t-shirts with these designs except for rm_you" license21:24
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GAN800timeless, my read from that is that's the branding issue with MicroB versus 'Mozilla based browser for Maemo' rather than MicroB's usage of the Maemo/ branding.21:26
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GAN800He's kidding, right?
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lbtrm_you: I thought all the logos were submitted as CC21:32
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GAN800Somebody please tell me he's joking.21:34
GAN800The 'MSIE 7' isn't encouraging.21:35
rm_youdo they become property of or are they Creative Commons or what21:36
jottmikkov_: i wonder if it's the fault of qemu that cmakes breaks :/21:41
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Stskeepslbt: i almost have a ready with linuxrc support21:41
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* GAN800 notices timeless in the Recent changes page and chuckles.21:46
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lbtStskeeps: I thought you'd be too impatient to wait for me ;)21:49
lbthappy to try it out though...21:49
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Stskeepslbt: meh, i was bored :P21:49
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RST38hmoo again21:58
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Italodanceshould do it22:22
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XTLnokia should moo now?22:34
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mikkov_jott: I think cmake problem is dependency issue, because I have it working locally. Though I had to install sb to Debian because on Fedora it didn't work22:45
mikkov_but I really didn't need cmake, so I just dropped investigating22:45
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jottmikkov_: with a clean sbox target it still compiles ..22:47
profoX`Hi... I wanted to try and run mplayer in a scratchbox environment, and I added the repo containing mplayer and apt-get updated, but apt-cache search mplayer doesn't find anything, what could be wrong there22:47
mikkov_jott: autobuilder isn't clean sbox target :)22:47
jottmikkov_: well let's see, i just pushed cmake 2.6.122:47
mikkov_profoX: are sure about the right repo?22:49
jottmikkov_: and the tests results for curl are the same on my local machine :/22:49
profoX`mikkov_: well, the only thing I can think of is that mplayer is only in the chinook repo and not in the diablo repo22:50
mikkov_profoX: what did you excatly add to sources.listÃ?22:51
jotthm same error..22:51
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mikkov_jott: 2.6.1 works on your local sbox?22:52
mikkov_autobuilder is missing something, but what, that is the question :)22:53
jottyeah. maybe #cmake folks have an idea :)22:53
mikkov_profoX: did you apt-get update?22:56
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profoX`mikkov_: yes22:56
mikkov_profoX: I seem to have the problem as you ;). mplayer is in diablo repo, but apt-get cabn't find it from sb...22:58
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jottwas there some tutorial on how to get the same env as the autobuilder?23:00
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mikkov_jott: at least I haven't heard of any tutorial :) or actually of any real doc about autobuilder environment23:01
jottsuch a problem is utterly hard to trace :(23:02
mikkov_maybe we could request for autobuilder image23:02
GAN800Anybody check the garage project page?23:03
mikkov_hmm, what is the project name?23:04
GAN800Google it23:04
mikkov_is it cauldron?23:04
GAN800I don't recall23:05
mikkov_extras-cauldron is related, but don't know if it really about autobuilder23:06
jotti think it just handle the queue23:07
jottnot the building23:07
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mikkov_is mud-builder related to autobuilder?23:08
jotti think mud-builder just helps pushing stuff to the builder23:09
jottit seems to be "sbdmock" that is used to build23:09
jottbut the source snapshot seems rather old :/23:10
mikkov_you could add some fancy package reporting to debian/rules :)23:10
mikkov_print dpkg -l23:11
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jottmm. sbdmock just dumps the sdk rootstrap.23:12
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V13Am I missing something? : Reinstallation of osso-software-version-unlocked is not possible, it cannot be downloaded.23:16
V13(hi :)23:16
V13Reinstallation of osso-software-version-rx34 is not possible, it cannot be downloaded.23:17
V13(n800 + os2008 + somehow failed SSU)23:17
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* pahartik seems to recall that "osso-software-version" needed to be removed before "dpkg --purge macromedia-flashplayer" succeeded23:20
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hvelarde|stealthhi, there!23:36
hvelarde|stealthI'm pretty new to the maemo stuff23:37
hvelarde|stealthI just bought a N810 and I upgraded it to Diablo23:37
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hvelarde|stealthI want to install the USB Control applet, but it gives me an error23:37
hvelarde|stealthdoes this applet runs on Diablo?23:38
jotthvelarde|stealth: what is the error?23:38
BULLEhvelarde|stealth: i run diablo, and i have maemo-control-usb installed23:39
hvelarde|stealthlet me try again, jott23:39
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hvelarde|stealthlet me see guys23:39
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hvelarde|stealthwell, I will try to translate the message because it's in spanish23:41
hvelarde|stealthis says something like: Impossible to install usbcontrol; incompatible application package23:42
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hvelarde|stealthBULLE: did you installed from the maemo's web site?23:43
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BULLEhvelarde|stealth: nah, i just used the application manager23:44
BULLEhvelarde|stealth: the links on the maemo website tend not to work for me, well, no one have so far23:44
BULLEhvelarde|stealth: the "click here to install" links23:44
hvelarde|stealthBULLE: is the maemo-control-usb the same thing?23:45
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hvelarde|stealthi have that one installed, but it works for usb networking, not to change the usb mode on the tablet23:46
BULLEoh, no idea23:46
BULLEi thought they were the same23:46
BULLEapparently they are not23:46
hvelarde|stealthno, they aren't23:46
GAN800V13, did you get an answer?23:46
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CptLaptopso i hear the fedora package system is gay. comments?23:47
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BULLECptLaptop: yes of course its gay, no go troll somewhere else23:47
CptLaptopim seriosu23:48
BULLECptLaptop: me to23:48
GAN800When SSU was installed, it also installed nokia-repositories which changed the the tableteer upgrade repo to diablo-1/ instead of diablo/.23:48
CptLaptopim not trolling, im asking if its really bad vs debian23:48
GAN800CptLaptop, it's only gay for you. ;)23:48
BULLECptLaptop: no its not, its comparable, and superior in some ways, but in most circumstances they are pretty comparable23:49
CptLaptopapaprently not since the guy who advised against it isnt me :p23:49
GAN800No, it only loves you. :P23:49
mikkov_rpm vs deb debate is useless...23:49
jottyou find some other guy who will claim the contrary :/23:49
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CptLaptoplol true23:50
CptLaptopif everyone hated it it wouldnt exist23:50
robtaylorin gneral, i think its easier to do packaging with rpm than deb23:52
robtaylorbut less flexible23:52
robtaylorboth suck in a myriad of ways23:52
robtaylorbut in the end its not the package format that's important, but the community that does the packaging23:53
robtaylorand both communities have their strengths and weaknesses23:54
CptLaptopim asking because im half considering an acer aspire one. of course even if fedora isnt gay afterall, that doesnt help the fact linpus lite is23:54
lcukspeaking of packaging, can i use an msi built with installshield on maemo?23:55
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mikkov_can't you install any linux distro to aspire one?23:56
jottmikkov_: still fails and packages are not different :(23:56
GAN800lcuk, only if you install my superawesomehax.deb first;23:56
V13gan800 nope but I found something on the forum (page 28 :)23:57
V13but still can't doit23:57
lcukGAN800, :D23:57
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GAN800V13, then you didn't do it right23:57
GAN800Post by GeneralAntilles?23:58
V13I mean.. i found what happens23:58
V13but I'm stuck23:58
CptLaptopmikkov_: linpus lite is tailored for the hardware, apaprently people have tried ubuntu and had it hang and stuff like that23:58
mikkov_jott: dpkg -l ;)23:58
V13situation is like this: apt-get upgrade from ssh for feature upgrade, ssh stoped, upgrade seemed to finished, flashed n800 (boot from sd)23:58
V13but after rebooting, the sd won't boot23:59
mikkov_need to save that print :)23:59
jottand i removed the debian patches.23:59
jottmikkov_: it's really just the rootstrap23:59
jottwith gawk installed23:59
V13it stays on the boot screen (the blue bar and the nokia logo)23:59
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GAN800V13, DO NOT apt-get upgrade with a broken osso-software-versiom23:59
V13i booted in internal memory, upgraded, reflashed but same thing..23:59
V13gan ?23:59

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