| thefool | so I wonder what makes it the "epitome of lameness" | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| algerion | currenly, I'd guess lack of things to do with it, but that will change once it gets put into something that will compete with the iphone | 00:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | thefool, well, it doesn't really do or have anything interesting at the moment | 00:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's lame non-native code | 00:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | it's a cellphone OS | 00:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | and the version on the tablets is about 3 major revisions old | 00:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | and not going to get any newer. | 00:02 |
| piguet | Hi! I've written a GPS application, released in beta as a deb file at http://nyctergatis.com/hike/, and some notes on the creation of deb files, at http://nyctergatis.com/maemopkg/ . Where should I announce them? | 00:03 |
| glass_ | android is just lame new personal java | 00:03 |
| glass_ | and late too | 00:03 |
| GAN800 | Oh, and it's hype-city | 00:03 |
| lbt | piguet: well - the notes would be great on the wiki | 00:03 |
| GAN800 | Hi, glass. :) | 00:04 |
| algerion | anyone run kismet on an 810? | 00:04 |
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| lbt | and https://garage.maemo.org/ is the place to put hike | 00:04 |
| algerion | it always crashes after a couple minutes on mine | 00:04 |
| piguet | Ibt: ok, thanks. And the application? Garage seems way too complicated at this stage. | 00:04 |
| lbt | nah | 00:04 |
| GAN800 | piguet, get yourself a garage.maemo.org project and get the application into Extras-devel (http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras) | 00:05 |
| lbt | I put Shopper on there | 00:05 |
| lbt | think of it as a simple file upload for the deb/src | 00:05 |
| GAN800 | and see http://maemo.org/intro for more details on distributing applications. | 00:05 |
| lbt | see http://shopper.garage.maemo.org/ for a tiny app :) | 00:05 |
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| GAN800 | ~upload-extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras | 00:06 |
| infobot | okay, GAN800 | 00:06 |
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| GAN800 | ~extras | 00:09 |
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| GAN800 | ~extras | 00:09 |
| piguet | The problem I see with Garage is that one has to submit a source package and I've avoided completely the dpkg-buildpackage stuff (seemed to complicated for a one-source-file project), hence http://nyctergatis.com/maemopkg/ . | 00:10 |
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| GAN800 | ~extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras | 00:10 |
| infobot | okay, GAN800 | 00:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | You don't have to submit anything to Garage. | 00:10 |
| lbt | piguet: that's only if you want to publish it to extras, not garage | 00:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Autobuilder is the one you need to submit a source package to. | 00:10 |
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| Mek | hmm... somehow form scratchbox I can't seem to be able to resolve hostnames... It used to work just fine, but now it won't... | 00:13 |
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| GeneralAntilles | milhouse, ping. | 00:17 |
| milhouse | ponh | 00:18 |
| milhouse | pong | 00:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | You see dneary's elections announcement? | 00:18 |
| milhouse | debugging network issues with my squeezebox controller - geez it's a nightmare :( | 00:18 |
| milhouse | i did - i saw i'm eligibile :) | 00:18 |
| pH5 | Mek: check the contents of scratchbox's resolv.conf /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf or so. | 00:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | milhouse, send your candidacy announcement in! Gogogo! :P | 00:19 |
| Mek | pH5: yeah, but whatever I enter there it just won't work... | 00:19 |
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| lcuk | mrs lcuk wasn't very lcuky tonight :( | 00:27 |
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| Jaffa | phwoar | 00:28 |
| Jaffa | real sleep now | 00:28 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: how about mrs n800 though? =) | 00:33 |
| lcuk | not yet, i have to say she was incredibly brave and managed to keep hold of the dvd player | 00:34 |
| lcuk | she found a novel and inventive (and rather quick) way to get down the stairs | 00:34 |
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| lcuk | shame the bruises wont heal for a while :( | 00:35 |
| lbt | and you're on irc? | 00:35 |
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| lbt | bad husband | 00:35 |
| lbt | go make more tea | 00:35 |
| lcuk | i made all the tea i can and mopped up the blood (this was earlier) | 00:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | what the hell happened? O_o | 00:37 |
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| lbt | yeah - mrs lbt slipped on some tiles recently - not nice! | 00:37 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: ouch | 00:37 |
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| RST38h | umgh | 00:38 |
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| anders_gud | Hi! | 00:38 |
| RST38h | all right, 20 more minutes of reading and sleep | 00:38 |
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| anders_gud | just got this strange error when opening microb: | 00:39 |
| anders_gud | operation disabled due to low memory | 00:39 |
| anders_gud | There is a thread on it here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=213877 | 00:41 |
| timely | why is that a strange error? | 00:43 |
| timely | and what precisely is unclear about it? | 00:43 |
| lcuk | anders_gud, im guessing that you have run out of memory | 00:43 |
| anders_gud | i've got plenty of free space and mem, booting from mmc | 00:43 |
| mikkov_ | ram? | 00:44 |
| anders_gud | yep and swap | 00:44 |
| timely | so first of all | 00:44 |
| timely | if you're booting from mmc | 00:44 |
| timely | i don't support you | 00:44 |
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| timely | there was an amusing instance where the file system order of the fonts directory resulted in some fonts not being available | 00:44 |
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| lcuk | timely, thats not amusing, that should be anonymised and posted to dailywtf | 00:46 |
| timely | i can't remember if it was in a bug report | 00:46 |
| timely | it might be | 00:46 |
| lcuk | heh | 00:46 |
| timely | anyway, one of those comments says they have 16mb of ram free | 00:46 |
| timely | that seems very low | 00:46 |
| lcuk | are patches internally submitted to svn type systems? | 00:46 |
| timely | no | 00:46 |
| timely | in rare cases people post patches to bugzilla | 00:47 |
| timely | Version Control varies by product and affiliation | 00:47 |
| timely | kernel is git afiliated | 00:47 |
| lcuk | ok, is code developed using svn type principles | 00:47 |
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| timely | microb will be hg afiliated | 00:47 |
| lcuk | ahhh right | 00:47 |
| timely | (currently it's actually svn for strange reasons, although upstream is cvs) | 00:48 |
| lcuk | hodgepodge reflecting the genetics of each project | 00:48 |
| timely | yep | 00:48 |
| Mek | ah, damn.. there are two resolv.conf files in scratchbox... | 00:48 |
| Mek | that truely sucks... | 00:48 |
| lcuk | can understand actually | 00:48 |
| timely | mek: that's what makes life interesting | 00:48 |
| timely | anders_gud: the thing you linked to basically shows devices that don't have enough free memory to run a browser | 00:49 |
| timely | and you're acting surprised when the browser says as much | 00:50 |
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| timely | anders_gud: if you want to do something useful, run top, then use /proc to check /proc/{pid}/cmdline to figure out what the memory hogging maemo-launcher's are | 00:51 |
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| anders_gud | well it seems that only the browser is affected, no other apps are complaining.. | 01:00 |
| anders_gud | ok it's late - thanks anyway! | 01:04 |
| anders_gud | bye | 01:04 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Ahh, itT. . . . | 01:04 |
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| timely | no other apps use memory... | 01:08 |
| *** nab has quit IRC | 01:08 | |
| timely | and what part of "this also affects the about product" means "no other apps are affected" | 01:08 |
| timely | it'd affect any web browser... | 01:08 |
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| timely | lcuk: please anonymize anders and post him to WTF | 01:09 |
| lcuk | :D | 01:09 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I unno what's with all the hatin' on Modest | 01:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm really loving it. | 01:13 |
| lardman | night all | 01:13 |
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| timely | who hates it? | 01:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Lots of people, seemingly | 01:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Many of them on itT | 01:14 |
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| JackBeSlow | have a bit of an issue and could use some help | 01:19 |
| JackBeSlow | I just upgraded from maemo 3.1 SDK to 3.2. Now when I try to connect with the xephyr xserver I get a whole bunch of permission denied errors | 01:20 |
| lbt | 'night all | 01:22 |
| JackBeSlow | is the sdk environment supposed to be so bare? All I have is an empty control panel application | 01:24 |
| JackBeSlow | oh, and maemopad | 01:24 |
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| JackBeSlow | and yet another question in case anyone comes on willing/able to answer. Are there any good python maemo tutorials left. I used to have a good basic one bookmarked but can't find it now | 01:26 |
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| timely | JackBeSlow: "yes" | 01:27 |
| timely | you can add other stuff to the sdk if you like | 01:27 |
| timely | you should have a gnuish thing in the status area too and maybe something on the "desktop" | 01:28 |
| JackBeSlow | and how do I go about doing that? just download and install the .debs? | 01:28 |
| timely | is application manager not part of the sdk? | 01:28 |
| JackBeSlow | nope... | 01:28 |
| timely | apt-get install then :) | 01:29 |
| JackBeSlow | its the old sdk though bora | 01:29 |
| JackBeSlow | heh ok | 01:29 |
| JackBeSlow | nice | 01:31 |
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| chase_ | Can anyone tell me if I can build a cable to cold flash an n800 or do I need some sort of jig? | 01:32 |
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| lcuk | chase_, cold flash? the 800 can be flashed using the nokia supplied usb lead. it removes everything and does not depend upon the currently installed os | 01:38 |
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| JackBeSlow | I am thinking by cold flash he means after the firmware has already been screwed up | 01:39 |
| chase_ | it won't even boot up far enough to accept usb flash | 01:39 |
| chase_ | flashes white nokia screen for about half a second and goes black.. cycles for about a minute and gives up | 01:39 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Sounds like a low battery | 01:41 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hey, timely, lucky you, they filed a bug. ;P https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3586 | 01:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Isn't this configurable in about:config? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3585 | 01:43 |
| chase_ | alright.. if I plug usb cord in.. it shows little usb sign in the corner.. still cycles black and white nokia sign... | 01:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Got another device you could charge the battery up in? | 01:46 |
| timely | from memory the timeout thing is a bug | 01:46 |
| timely | but i thought it was already reported (dupeme?) | 01:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | This isn't what he's after: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Dom.max_script_run_time ? | 01:46 |
| timely | chase_: we don't do usb charging | 01:46 |
| chase_ | apparently I just had to time starting the flasher at the precise moment | 01:46 |
| timely | GeneralAntilles: no | 01:46 |
| timely | we have some requirements that we honor system inactivity dim | 01:47 |
| timely | and sadly the apis are horribly misnamed in the platform | 01:47 |
| timely | so we listen for an event that should be the right one, but isn't | 01:47 |
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| timely | @#J$@!KL$#@%@#5 | 01:50 |
| * timely kicks safari | 01:50 | |
| timely | where's undo close window? | 01:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehehe | 01:50 |
| * GeneralAntilles did that yesterday. | 01:51 | |
| timely | bugs.maemo.org asked me to login | 01:51 |
| timely | and i assumed i had posted my comment, so i closed the bug (window) | 01:51 |
| MangoFusion | "Reopen last closed window"? | 01:51 |
| MangoFusion | its in History | 01:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not in Safari 1.x | 01:51 |
| timely | yeah, definitely not there | 01:52 |
| timely | feel free to give me an unused legal license for 10.5 | 01:52 |
| MangoFusion | 1.x? what os are you living on? ;) | 01:53 |
| MangoFusion | oh right | 01:53 |
| timely | 10.3.9 | 01:53 |
| MangoFusion | ah i see | 01:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | timely, is from the past. | 01:54 |
| MangoFusion | no obvious way to do that unless you hand over some $$ ;) | 01:54 |
| Luria | ask pystar for one, im sure theyll give you one as a promo | 01:54 |
| timely | Luria, :) | 01:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Panther, Bora, it's like we're going on a trip back in time | 01:55 |
| timely | i think my 770 runs gregale :) | 01:55 |
| timely | or was it the one before that? | 01:55 |
| * GeneralAntilles shakes his head. | 01:56 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | You know MicroB's a lot nicer now than it was a year ago. :P | 01:57 |
| Luria | must not look at guitar webpages | 01:57 |
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| timely | mistral ? | 01:59 |
| JackBeSlow | yea, that was the one before gregale | 02:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mistral, Gregale, Scirocco | 02:00 |
| JackBeSlow | scirocco? never even heard of that one | 02:00 |
| timely | hrm, well i definitely don't run scirocco | 02:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | 2.2 | 02:00 |
| timely | i run one of the other two | 02:00 |
| JackBeSlow | timely: at the lest you should load bora on it, it is quite usable | 02:00 |
| timely | probably gregale w/ mistral packages? | 02:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo_(operating_system)#Release_history | 02:01 |
| JackBeSlow | s/lest/least | 02:01 |
| timely | but that isn't supported! :) | 02:01 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Pfft | 02:01 |
| timely | besides, i have dozens of apps on my device | 02:02 |
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| JackBeSlow | anyways thanks for the help everyon I have a fully working dev environment now. Now I just need to find a good python GUI tutorial...I can't find the link to the one I used before | 02:02 |
| timely | GeneralAntilles: have you installed the flash fix? :) | 02:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, want me to? | 02:02 |
| JackBeSlow | s/everyon/everyone | 02:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Flash is basically perma-off here. | 02:02 |
| timely | GeneralAntilles: everyone should until we release a real fix | 02:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Want me to advertise it? | 02:02 |
| timely | we spoke w/ adobe thursday(yesterday localtime) and they were supposed to certify it | 02:02 |
| timely | yeah, might as well | 02:02 |
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| timely | we can't possibly get it out before middle of next week | 02:03 |
| timely | and i don't know how the ssu process will work | 02:03 |
| timely | ... certify it that day w/ us finishing paperwork today (friday) | 02:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | So, time frame for the fix is within 1 month-ish? | 02:03 |
| timely | yes | 02:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | OK, then I wont toss it krisse's direction. | 02:03 |
| timely | but in the interim, i'd hate for people to be blocked from facebook :) | 02:04 |
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| timely | GeneralAntilles: wanna file bugs about lame strings? | 02:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Website stuff? | 02:16 |
| timely | http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/hildon-application-manager-l10n-public-5.0+r6160/po/en_GB.po#393 | 02:16 |
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| timely | anyone here have chinook? | 02:24 |
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| lcuk | timely, yer | 02:41 |
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| bef0rd | hi! | 02:50 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, what does this show you on device? http://www.adobe.com//swf/software/flash/about/flashAbout_info_small.swf | 02:50 |
| lcuk | probably nothing cos i dont use flash, gimme a mo to turn net on | 02:51 |
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| lcuk2 | spam again plz | 02:52 |
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| lcuk | http://www.adobe.com//swf/software/flash/about/flashAbout_info_small.swf | 02:53 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles version 9,0,31,35 | 02:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Thanks! | 02:55 |
| lcuk | you! are! welcome! | 02:55 |
| brontide | GeneralAntilles: despite {{holdon}} tags they went ahead and deleted both archives! | 02:55 |
| brontide | argh | 02:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 02:55 |
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| brontide | Not that I am sad to see some of it lost, but why not merge the archives | 02:56 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Odd that they're so interested in deleting. | 02:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, it wasn't particularly useful stuff. | 02:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | But it was fairly epic in its own right. | 02:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Something fun to show off to friends. ;) | 02:56 |
| brontide | At that point, just delete all the archives | 02:56 |
| lcuk | brontide, whats bein deleted/ | 02:57 |
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| brontide | Just useless talk page ranting | 02:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | The meanwhile/Umptious archives from wikipedia. | 02:57 |
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| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, can i disable flash again on my device now? | 02:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes | 02:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Thanks | 02:58 |
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| lcuk | good, its such a cpu killer | 02:58 |
| brontide | GA actually most of it's still there because the old archives have now overidden the newer archives | 02:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh, timely, sjgadsby is working on the back-dated bugjars. | 02:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | So an even less useful deletion? | 02:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | nice. | 02:59 |
| brontide | just the inbetween stuff is now gone, I should probably restore the talk page and then remake my archives | 02:59 |
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| brontide | doing that now | 03:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just as long as the articles themselves don't suddenly become full of crazy rambling again I'm OK. :D | 03:01 |
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| brontide | fixed ( I hope ) | 03:06 |
| brontide | wiki.maemo.org... I though that was fixed! | 03:07 |
| brontide | ( empty page again ) | 03:08 |
| brontide | chug chug chug | 03:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nope, the watchdog that was killing threads was fixed | 03:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | The random Apache thread segfaults are waiting on the server upgrades. | 03:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | 2-ish weeks | 03:10 |
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| tank-man | weird, my bootmenu on my n800 is gone and all i did was backup my sd card on my pc | 03:25 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Did you install 30-2? | 03:27 |
| tank-man | what is 30-2? | 03:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | 4.2008.30-2 | 03:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | The first SSU update | 03:28 |
| tank-man | i was dualbooting with diablo on internal flash and chinnok on sd. | 03:28 |
| tank-man | yes i believe i did | 03:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then there you go | 03:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | The initfs was one of the things updated | 03:29 |
| tank-man | i see | 03:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Grab fanoush's latest initfs_flasher, drop your bootmenu.conf in there and run it again. | 03:29 |
| * GeneralAntilles still needs to write a section up on the latest SSU update. | 03:31 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | OK, wiki article on SSU | 03:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Should I name it "SSU" or "Seamless Software Update"? | 03:44 |
| pupnik_ | Seamless | 03:46 |
| n800n | software! | 03:48 |
| jott | update | 03:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Woo! | 03:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anyway | 03:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Seamless Software Update it is | 03:50 |
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| jott | GeneralAntilles: might be good to add a redirect SSU -> Seamless Software Update | 03:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, yeah, that's a plan. | 03:50 |
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| uncorq | /msg NickServ identify antig0ne | 03:54 |
| uncorq | i hate when I do that. | 03:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Time for a new password. | 03:54 |
| uncorq | hehehe updating now ;) | 03:55 |
| jott | just make sure you do not use this password in other places :) | 03:56 |
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| uncorq | only on the swiss bank account, promise ;-) | 03:58 |
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| * jott just got rich | 04:00 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | OK, updated the wiki a bit | 04:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Will need to expand the SSU page | 04:03 |
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| GeneralAntilles | ~ssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU | 04:03 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles: okay | 04:03 |
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| lcuk | /msg nickserv identify ***** | 04:05 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, sorry, not bash quote for you. :P | 04:06 |
| lcuk | do not want | 04:06 |
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| lcuk | gnite chan | 04:08 |
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| n800n | <3 | 04:29 |
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| n800n | hey is pidgin the only that does yahoo | 05:10 |
| n800n | messenger? | 05:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | No | 05:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | rtcomm does | 05:10 |
| n800n | phew | 05:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | rtcomm supports most everything Pidgin does | 05:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | They're both libpurple | 05:11 |
| n800n | thanks, checking | 05:11 |
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| algerion | does anything support webcams on yahoo? | 05:14 |
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| GAN800 | No | 05:15 |
| pupnik | "I'm fair and balanced. I would like to personally cast John McCain and Barack Obama into the lake of fire." - Scott Horton | 05:16 |
| n800n | hm can't install rtcomm beta, says it will harm the system | 05:17 |
| n800n | got it, works with the deb directly, i was doing it thru the app manager before | 05:19 |
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| iXce | mm, is there a working port of xchat or pidgin or gajim for diablo? | 05:26 |
| qos | GeneralAntilles, how to fix the rotation support after the SSU update? | 05:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | iXce, Extras-devel | 05:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~extras | 05:33 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras | 05:33 |
| iXce | GeneralAntilles: thanks! | 05:33 |
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| n800n | crap man, rtcomm is like 60 libs | 05:43 |
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| t_s_o | sometimes i find myself wishing the N800 stand was padded as i end up putting my hand thru it to rest the tablet that way... | 05:58 |
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| manyoso | anyone know what the pressure resolution is of the N810? | 05:59 |
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| GeneralAntilles | manyoso, relatively high | 06:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | but not accurate at all. | 06:02 |
| manyoso | i'm looking for exact range | 06:02 |
| manyoso | i'm reading direct from tslib | 06:03 |
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| n800n | who stolr mt stylus danlm it | 06:03 |
| manyoso | and the number ranges from 0 to 300+ | 06:03 |
| manyoso | and then once in awhile like 65000+ | 06:03 |
| manyoso | it is not at all clear what scale it is using | 06:03 |
| manyoso | hmm, seems /etc/pointercal helps me here | 06:05 |
| manyoso | now to try and understand this file | 06:06 |
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| ChuangJiang | Dear everyone. | 06:17 |
| ChuangJiang | I'm building OpenOffice.org in the scratchbox , and I've got the following error message: | 06:18 |
| ChuangJiang | error while loading shared libraries: libpthread.so.0: cannot enable executable stack as shared object requires: Invalid argument | 06:18 |
| ChuangJiang | Could you give me any advice? TIA. | 06:18 |
| moontiger | ummmmmm openoffice?? on the n810?? | 06:19 |
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| GeneralAntilles | goodluckwiththat | 06:19 |
| ChuangJiang | Yes. | 06:20 |
| moontiger | even if you get it "working" i would imagine it wouldnt exactly be much fun to run | 06:20 |
| moontiger | if you're lucky your battery might last long enough to get it started up | 06:20 |
| moontiger | :) | 06:20 |
| moontiger | besides ... doesn't it require java? | 06:21 |
| ChuangJiang | YES. | 06:22 |
| moontiger | and ummmm ... do we have a working java package for the n8x0? | 06:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not quite | 06:22 |
| moontiger | right | 06:22 |
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| n800n | naysayers | 06:23 |
| * moontiger laughs | 06:23 | |
| ChuangJiang | TO moontiger: ???? | 06:23 |
| moontiger | chuang ... i think you wont have much luck with oo on the n8x0 is all im saying ... why not help out with abiword instead? :) | 06:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Be a lot less effort to just set up a Debian chrrot. | 06:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/chrrot/chroot/ | 06:25 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: Be a lot less effort to just set up a Debian chroot. | 06:25 |
| n800n | not that it's hard, it probably will be so slow as to be unusable | 06:26 |
| n800n | it's what they're saying | 06:26 |
| moontiger | n800n... thats what im getting at | 06:26 |
| n800n | the naysayers | 06:26 |
| moontiger | hahaha | 06:26 |
| * moontiger tuens up rammstein | 06:26 | |
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| n800n | but hey i've seen some amazing things on the n800, who knows | 06:28 |
| n800n | but probably not this time ;/ | 06:29 |
| ChuangJiang | I'll transfer our company product Redoffice to the Platform of ARM. | 06:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Eh, it'll work | 06:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | It just wont be fun | 06:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Abiword is the way to do it | 06:29 |
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| Pavlz-00 | hello | 06:35 |
| Pavlz-00 | i try to update the nokia 770 | 06:35 |
| Pavlz-00 | apt-get update | 06:36 |
| n800n | <3 | 06:36 |
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| GeneralAntilles | apt-get update just refreshes the repositories | 06:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anyway, upgrading via apt is NOT recommended | 06:37 |
| Pavlz-00 | but nothing happen, the kernel is 2.6.16.27-omap1 | 06:37 |
| Pavlz-00 | ok, how to update with repository the kernel ? | 06:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | You don't update the kernel. | 06:40 |
| Pavlz-00 | i want update the kernel | 06:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm happy for you, but it's not going to happen. | 06:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not if you like wifi, anyway. | 06:41 |
| Pavlz-00 | yes, continue | 06:41 |
| Pavlz-00 | why not if like me wi-fi ? | 06:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | The wifi drivers are closed | 06:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | and built against that kernel | 06:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | if you update the kernel you don't get to have wifi anymore. | 06:42 |
| Pavlz-00 | and to install lspci ? | 06:44 |
| Pavlz-00 | apt-get install lspci | 06:44 |
| Pavlz-00 | Reading package list... Done | 06:46 |
| Pavlz-00 | Building dependency tree... Done | 06:47 |
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| Pavlz-00 | E: Couldn't find package lspci | 06:48 |
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| GeneralAntilles | There are no pci devices in the device. | 06:48 |
| Pavlz-00 | ok, and how to see the address of chipset wi-fi ? the IRQ | 06:49 |
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| Pavlz-00 | for example too the producer of that chipset for wi-fi | 06:51 |
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| moontiger | GA... is the 770 frozen on that kernel? | 06:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | If you like wifi. | 06:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | 770 support has been dead for a while. | 06:54 |
| moontiger | right ... thats what i thought too | 06:55 |
| moontiger | pavlz... why do you want to upgrade the kernel? | 06:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Because it's old, duh. :P | 06:56 |
| Pavlz-00 | Is old | 06:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^ | 06:57 |
| Proteous | if it ain't broke... | 06:57 |
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| GeneralAntilles | What'd I say?! ;) | 06:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Break it and get Nokia to give you a free upgrade! | 06:57 |
| Proteous | boooo | 06:57 |
| Proteous | don't take nokias moneys that they could be using to build new IT devices!! | 06:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 06:58 |
| Pavlz-00 | i would to mount a 2007 or 2008 os | 06:58 |
| Pavlz-00 | if possible | 06:59 |
| JackBeSlow | installing a later OS does not require a new kernel | 06:59 |
| GAN800 | ~flashing | 06:59 |
| infobot | flashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 06:59 |
| Pavlz-00 | all new and the kernel old ? | 06:59 |
| JackBeSlow | yep | 07:00 |
| JackBeSlow | follow the link :) | 07:00 |
| GAN800 | kernel is the same for all of them. | 07:02 |
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| * moontiger wants to strangle the sbox environment | 07:03 | |
| * moontiger wants to strangle the gdata feeds too *sigh* | 07:05 | |
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| pupnik | i don't find any USB hard drives with built-in battery here | 07:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | deal-extreme ship to you? | 07:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | they probably have something | 07:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Although it might be more interesting/useful to build an inline injector. | 07:12 |
| pupnik | true | 07:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Though you'll need a lot of batteries to spin up a drive | 07:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hot glue 4 SDHC readers together instead? :D | 07:13 |
| Pavlz-00 | ah, about cables, near the battery there is a port rs-232 for.which use ? And why we have not that cable? | 07:14 |
| JackBeSlow | I saw a self powered micro hard drive at compusa a while back. At first I thought it was usb powered, but it mentioned the need to keep it charged. Might be worth a look | 07:14 |
| JackBeSlow | I think it was something like 60gb | 07:14 |
| pupnik | you're right.. better to make own power injector | 07:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pavlz-00, there are 3 ports on the bottom, power, 3.5mm audio and USB | 07:18 |
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| andrewfblack | Hey guys | 08:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Howdy | 08:07 |
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| andrewfblack | Well thats enough moving stuff around for me tonight | 08:21 |
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| dougt | fwiw, fennec m6 is still busted if you launch it from the menu item. | 08:37 |
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| dougt | we should get it right for the next release. | 08:38 |
| dougt | the docs for osso_init() are, um, wrong. | 08:38 |
| dougt | :-) | 08:38 |
| dougt | if you launch m6 from the shell, all is okay | 08:38 |
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| moontiger | i know its no big deal but i got my first home screen applet working just now :) | 09:24 |
| moontiger | so im happy with myself :) | 09:24 |
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| t_s_o | congrats moontiger. hope you come up with some interesting applets given time :) | 09:35 |
| moontiger | thank you :) | 09:35 |
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| t_s_o | no problem, given that i could not code myself out of any kind of problem (but probably into a lot of them) i should cheer on those that can ;) | 09:38 |
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| moontiger | nn all :) | 10:06 |
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| RST38h | moo all | 10:51 |
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| lbt | 'lo | 10:54 |
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| ds3 | \ | 11:13 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Where the hell are all these @plenware.com guys coming from? | 11:24 |
| timely | ? | 11:24 |
| lbt | FYI : I got my invite first thing this am - so it looks like Ed (or someone) is covering X-Fade just fine :) | 11:24 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timely, Chinese guys all from plenware.com posting weirdness to the lists and bugzilla. | 11:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Like: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3535#c2 | 11:31 |
| timely | http://www.plenware.fi/en/index.shtml | 11:32 |
| timely | http://www.plenware.fi/en/uutiset.shtml/2008?2250 | 11:32 |
| timely | English isn't an easy language if you don't actually have a chance to speak w/ native speakers... | 11:33 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:41 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hey, Jaffa. | 11:49 |
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| florian | good morning | 11:52 |
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| qwerty12 | dannym: (if you read the logs), I commited usbmodeswitch to svn. I'm a svn noob so hopefully, I didn't boll0x anything up | 11:58 |
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| * Jaffa rewrites his bitchslapping email to be slightly more constructive to some of our Aussie developers who think layer separation is something which should just apply to other people. | 12:07 | |
| Jaffa | Or, worse than that, don't seem to understand the principle at all. | 12:07 |
| timely | ? | 12:07 |
| Jaffa | timely: they're doing silly things like using global variables in an OO application just because they've got no imagination; so the DB layer is doing stuff with HttpSession | 12:08 |
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| timely | nice | 12:10 |
| * timely doesn't get http://bulbing.blogspot.com/2008/08/nokia-n810-internet-tablet.html | 12:11 | |
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| Jaffa | timely: which bit? | 12:12 |
| eichi_ | how to update the OS on a mmc sd card? | 12:13 |
| Jaffa | Tuesday's post was encouraging people to use the Gimp. I'm not sure it's timely (if you excuse the pun ;-)) | 12:13 |
| timely | why mention the n810 this late? | 12:13 |
| timely | i mean, i don't mind ads, but ... what value does it add the blogosphere? | 12:14 |
| * Jaffa hopes the N900 has an accelerometer & OpenGL: was playing with Cube Racer on a colleague's iPod Touch: so simple but so much fun. | 12:14 | |
| timely | cube racer just gave me headaches | 12:14 |
| Jaffa | timely: "value" and "blogosphere"? Really? With a straight face? | 12:14 |
| timely | .... ok | 12:14 |
| timely | it wasted time in my morning mailbox | 12:14 |
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| Jaffa | Ah, you've got a Google Alert or something on N810? | 12:15 |
| timely | i had to read the google alert, read the blog entry, and try to figure out why i was there | 12:15 |
| timely | nah, microb :) | 12:15 |
| Jaffa | Ah :) | 12:15 |
| eichi_ | how to update the OS on a mmc sd card? | 12:15 |
| * timely gets very confused | 12:16 | |
| timely | i seem to be getting bugmail from a *random* bugzilla installation | 12:16 |
| Jaffa | eichi_: apt-get update? | 12:16 |
| * Jaffa dunnos, don't use MMC cloned | 12:16 | |
| timely | and it's locked too! | 12:16 |
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| eichi_ | Jaffa, is there a diffference to the aplications manager update? | 12:17 |
| kaie | I'm preparing to flash my n810 to diablo. right now I'm still at 2.2007.50-2 ... I've backed up /home/user using tar/scp. I'm trying... | 12:18 |
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| kaie | to back up using the built in "backup software" in addition. that stalls as soon as I include "settings" in the list of items to be backed up | 12:18 |
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| Jaffa | eichi_: No idea, I'm afraid. | 12:19 |
| qwerty12 | IIRC backup with settings freezes when you have claws mail installed and/or a symlink to / in /home/user/ | 12:19 |
| timely | oh brother | 12:19 |
| timely | qwerty12: is there a bug filed? | 12:19 |
| qwerty12 | timely, no idea | 12:20 |
| timely | a symlink to / used to kill metacrawler | 12:20 |
| kaie | ah interesting. I do have claws mail installed | 12:20 |
| timely | please make sure one's filed | 12:20 |
| GAN800 | eichi_, just update using the Application manager. . . . | 12:20 |
| GAN800 | ~ssu | 12:20 |
| infobot | hmm... ssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU | 12:20 |
| timely | GAN800: heh, does the Browser product not have a website component? | 12:20 |
| timely | oh | 12:20 |
| timely | um... that's not fair | 12:20 |
| GAN800 | timely, not that I saw. | 12:20 |
| timely | you're actually complaining about the shipping software | 12:20 |
| timely | but it's a service release | 12:21 |
| timely | the agreement wrt branding is that *new* products would get new branding | 12:21 |
| timely | diablo isn't a new product | 12:21 |
| eichi_ | GAN800, i did this, but then my sd card maemo cant boot - boot menu is removend and the updates is now on the INTERNAL flash | 12:21 |
| GAN800 | eichi_, | 12:21 |
| GAN800 | ~ssu | 12:21 |
| infobot | i heard ssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU | 12:21 |
| timely | GAN800: you are complaining about the start page, right? | 12:21 |
| GAN800 | timely, I didn't sign anything. :P | 12:21 |
| eichi_ | ah okay | 12:21 |
| GAN800 | but that's fine, mark it INVALID if you want. | 12:22 |
| GAN800 | Right, home.htm; | 12:22 |
| timely | GAN800: assign it to peter from marketing | 12:22 |
| GAN800 | home.html | 12:22 |
| timely | if he doesn't have a bugzilla account, introduce yourself and explain to him that he needs one :) | 12:22 |
| timely | nah, the bug's not really invalid | 12:23 |
| timely | well maybe | 12:23 |
| timely | dunno.. it should be assigned to peter | 12:23 |
| eichi_ | GAN800, url problem? | 12:23 |
| GAN800 | eichi_, hit reload | 12:24 |
| * timely still thinks 3585 is a dupe | 12:24 | |
| kaie | qwerty12, still stalls after uninstalling claws-mail*. and no symlink in /home/user | 12:24 |
| qwerty12 | kaie, Hmm, no symlink in any subfolders? | 12:25 |
| XTL | Is w.m.o still dead? | 12:25 |
| timely | hi kaie | 12:25 |
| kaie | qwerty12, well, I have an .icons symlink, is that it? | 12:25 |
| timely | kaie: strace :) | 12:25 |
| kaie | hi timely | 12:25 |
| qwerty12 | kaie, no, that's standard | 12:25 |
| kaie | that's the only symlink I see | 12:26 |
| GAN800 | oh hell, no bugzilla account. | 12:26 |
| timely | kaie: apt-get install strace :) | 12:26 |
| * GAN800 adds it to his TODO | 12:26 | |
| kaie | yes | 12:26 |
| timely | GAN800: send him an email,.. if you time it right, it'll arrive as i visit his office after lunch :) | 12:26 |
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| GAN800 | XTL, no. | 12:27 |
| * GAN800 was just about to sleep. | 12:27 | |
| XTL | Something funny here, then. | 12:27 |
| * GAN800 goes back downstairs to a real keyboard instead. | 12:27 | |
| GAN800 | XTL, hit reload. | 12:28 |
| XTL | GAN800: loads a while and gives conn refused. | 12:28 |
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| XTL | Don't need it, just noticed that a link I followed hadn't loaded. | 12:28 |
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| timely | http://developer.mozilla.org/wiki-images/en/a/ac/Moz_ffx_openStandards_800x600.jpg | 12:32 |
| XTL | heh | 12:32 |
| Jaffa | nice | 12:32 |
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| * qwerty12 shoots that fox with a non standard pellet gun converted to use bullets | 12:35 | |
| bergie | timely: we have that on our office wall :-) | 12:35 |
| timely | i hope it's bigger than a postage stamp :) | 12:35 |
| Jaffa | bergie: is there a good size/vector version? Would look good in our office too | 12:36 |
| bergie | Jaffa: no idea, the mozilla people were giving out those as posters in last FOSDEM | 12:36 |
| Jaffa | ah, right | 12:36 |
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| bergie | Jaffa: http://intlstore.mozilla.org/product_info.php?products_id=118 | 12:37 |
| Jaffa | ta | 12:38 |
| qwerty12 | http://static.zooomr.com/images/968466_7e7441f113_o.jpg | 12:38 |
| timely | clearance sale on http://intlstore.mozilla.org/product_info.php?products_id=52 | 12:38 |
| Jaffa | qwerty12: ta | 12:39 |
| qwerty12 | no problem | 12:40 |
| kaie | timely, strace -f doesn't give me much. maybe the files tell you more than me | 12:40 |
| timely | kaie: your dcc can't work... it wanted me to use 127.1 | 12:40 |
| timely | i need to head to work | 12:40 |
| timely | try pastebin.* | 12:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | timely, email's just about to go out. | 12:40 |
| timely | GAN800: 3586 has a lot of data | 12:41 |
| timely | can you find someone to parse it? | 12:41 |
| * timely will try to poke eero | 12:41 | |
| kaie | timely, http://pastebin.mozilla.org/514865 | 12:41 |
| timely | most of the listings there seem to show free memory as <10mb | 12:41 |
| timely | oh | 12:42 |
| timely | kaie, um... | 12:42 |
| timely | maemo platform is evil | 12:42 |
| timely | you'll probably need to strace maemo-launcher too | 12:42 |
| timely | otherwise you won't get anywhere :) | 12:42 |
| kaie | and in the working process, replace last line of that log with that from here: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/514869 | 12:42 |
| kaie | I see....... | 12:42 |
| timely | basically most apps are dummies | 12:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Eero's probably the only one who can look at it without losing their mind. | 12:43 |
| timely | they just talk to a daemon and say "fork and load foopy" | 12:43 |
| * timely nods | 12:43 | |
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| kaie | is it possible that you tell me what I shall do to trace this | 12:44 |
| kaie | or I will probably skip it and flash | 12:44 |
| kaie | strace -F ? | 12:44 |
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| timely | -f | 12:44 |
| kaie | -f did not help | 12:44 |
| kaie | -f did produce what I gave | 12:45 |
| timely | perhaps strace -f -p `pidof maemo-launcher` | 12:45 |
| * timely wonders if that works | 12:45 | |
| timely | you could do: | 12:45 |
| timely | cd /proc | 12:45 |
| timely | strace -f -p * | 12:45 |
| timely | :) | 12:45 |
| kaie | yes your pidof works | 12:45 |
| timely | ok | 12:45 |
| robink | You can strace a running app? | 12:45 |
| robink | jebus | 12:46 |
| XTL | sure | 12:46 |
| timely | sure | 12:46 |
| qwerty12 | sure (for good measure) | 12:46 |
| robink | I thought you had to have strace fork() and exec() the app. | 12:46 |
| XTL | Harder to strace a non-running one :) | 12:46 |
| XTL | But yeah, strace attached to a pid if you want | 12:46 |
| XTL | s/attached/attaches/ | 12:47 |
| infobot | XTL meant: But yeah, strace attaches to a pid if you want | 12:47 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timely, email is sent. | 12:47 |
| robink | Holy cow that's awesome. | 12:47 |
| qwerty12 | Any idea when kernel-source-diablo will be updated? | 12:48 |
| timely | ask qgil ;-) | 12:48 |
| kaie | very very slowwwwwwwww | 12:48 |
| * timely tries to run after GAN800's email | 12:48 | |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12, was the kernel actually updated? | 12:48 |
| * qwerty12 runs after qgil and pushes timely out of the way | 12:48 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Mine still shows the old build. . . . | 12:48 |
| qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles: The version number was :/ | 12:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Was it? | 12:48 |
| qwerty12 | Yeah, let me grab the number from Packages | 12:49 |
| qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles: http://pastebin.com/d52a9a356 | 12:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | 2.6.21-omap1 #2 Wed Jul 16 12:29:11 EEST 2008 armv6l unknown | 12:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Here | 12:50 |
| qwerty12 | I'm sure that is the updated kernel. what does "dpkg -s kernel-diablo-flasher" say? | 12:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Same as yours. | 12:51 |
| qwerty12 | Yeah, it's the updated version, I just verified | 12:52 |
| qwerty12 | The kernel is now at 2.6.21-200829, it would be nice if kernel-source-diablo_2.6.21-200823 was kernel-source-diablo_2.6.21-200829 instead :) | 12:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | File a bug | 12:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Make it a blocker for kicks. ;) | 12:53 |
| * qwerty12 would prefer it if the diablo sdk repository was updated at the same time at catalogue.tableteer | 12:53 | |
| qwerty12 | Yeah, good idea | 12:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anyway, sleep attempt part II coming up right now for me. | 12:53 |
| * qwerty12 hands GeneralAntilles some sleeping pills | 12:54 | |
| * qwerty12 gets back to compiling kernel-source-diablo_2.6.21-200823 with PREEMPT. I can't believe others have the luck :( | 12:55 | |
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| kaie | timely, it seems to loop. it seems to repeatedly try to backup the same files | 13:00 |
| rmrfchik | what are login/password for nokia repositaries? | 13:00 |
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| kaie | timely, timeless, qwerty12 but I only have the following symbolic links: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/514871 | 13:02 |
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| kaie | so I hope the information that it is stuck in an endless loop trying to backup the same files helps you. I do have the log files if you want them | 13:03 |
| qwerty12 | kaie: sorry, seems like your problem isn't the symlinks | 13:03 |
| qwerty12 | Hmm, did you purge claws-mail? | 13:03 |
| kaie | yes | 13:03 |
| kaie | purge? uninstall. yes | 13:03 |
| kaie | but not restart n810 | 13:03 |
| qwerty12 | Try apt-get remove --purge claws* | 13:03 |
| qwerty12 | (make sure it isn't removing anything that isn't claws related) | 13:03 |
| qwerty12 | --purge removes files in /etc which is where claws puts it backup configuration file | 13:04 |
| qwerty12 | s/it/its/ | 13:04 |
| infobot | qwerty12 meant: --purge removes files in /etc which is where claws puts its backup configuration file | 13:04 |
| kaie | qwerty12, http://pastebin.mozilla.org/514872 | 13:04 |
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| kaie | didn't help | 13:05 |
| qwerty12 | crap. does "ls /etc/osso-backup/applications/claws-mail.conf" say anything? | 13:05 |
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| kaie | qwerty12, yes, there is a file | 13:05 |
| kaie | rm ? | 13:06 |
| qwerty12 | yep | 13:06 |
| qwerty12 | after that, try osso-backup again | 13:06 |
| kaie | qwerty12, no change. stalls on ok button. does still not switch to progress bar | 13:07 |
| qwerty12 | arrgh, I'm out of suggestions then, sorry | 13:08 |
| Talus46_n810 | good morning all a bye going to the beach now :) | 13:08 |
| aquatix | Talus46_n810: damn you :P | 13:09 |
| Talus46_n810 | hehe | 13:09 |
| * aquatix shouldn't complain, working from home and all | 13:09 | |
| qwerty12 | damn, I was going to rob your house in 10 mins | 13:10 |
| * aquatix gets his Nerf gun | 13:10 | |
| kaie | qwerty12, thanks for trying, no worries | 13:11 |
| qwerty12 | :) | 13:11 |
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| qwerty12 | Quick question, if I wish to rebuild cx3110x module, do I use: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/c/cx3110x-module-src/ ? | 13:13 |
| Talus46_n810 | cool i wouldn't mind that to | 13:13 |
| Talus46_n810 | work from home i mean | 13:13 |
| Talus46_n810 | does nokia want a php and webservices guru? | 13:14 |
| Talus46_n810 | :)) | 13:14 |
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| aquatix | Talus46_n810: :) | 13:14 |
| * aquatix doesn't work for Nokia though ;) | 13:14 | |
| aquatix | Talus46_n810: maemo can use some fast servers though :) | 13:14 |
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| Talus46_n810 | fast server or fast services | 13:15 |
| aquatix | fast connection i guess | 13:15 |
| Talus46_n810 | hehe | 13:15 |
| aquatix | so, nothing really you can do about i think :) | 13:15 |
| bergie | aquatix: we have new servers, but they still wait for installation | 13:16 |
| Talus46_n810 | well guess i can go to the beach with no worries :) | 13:17 |
| aquatix | bergie: ah, cool | 13:17 |
| aquatix | bergie: that was that move about i guess? | 13:17 |
| aquatix | how did that go btw? | 13:17 |
| lbt | hmm - message from maemo-contributors says: http://slexy.org/view/s21CnhbEcN | 13:17 |
| * aquatix is missing a name on that list | 13:18 | |
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| kaie | n810 flashed to diable worked. backup restored (without settings). now installing apps. afterwards I intend to extract my full /home/user backup | 13:37 |
| kaie | unless you think that's a bad idea | 13:37 |
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| * lcuk bangs his head against a wall | 13:56 | |
| aquatix | please don't hurt the poor wall | 13:57 |
| qwerty12 | northern walls are weak. Don't worry, the wall is safe. | 13:57 |
| * aquatix saw a really big wall on tv this week | 13:58 | |
| Veggen | "This elevator is safe. Completely safe. It can't fall down. But in the event that it should still fall down, ..." | 13:58 |
| Veggen | I actually saw that in an elevator, once. | 13:58 |
| aquatix | lol | 13:58 |
| lcuk | the titanic was unsinkable as well | 13:58 |
| aquatix | gives you a lot of trust in the thing ;) | 13:58 |
| aquatix | lcuk: it didn't sink, it crashed ;) | 13:59 |
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| lcuk | aquatix so i suppose right now its above the surface of the earth just with VERY heavy rainfalling on the deck? | 14:03 |
| aquatix | it underwent a deck misplacement | 14:04 |
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| lcuk | deck malfunction | 14:04 |
| aquatix | the sea was placed above deck level by accident | 14:04 |
| aquatix | exactly | 14:04 |
| bergie | aquatix: no, the move earlier this week was some ISP internal stuff, the new servers are still waiting | 14:04 |
| aquatix | bergie: ah, i thought it was some incremental upgrading thing; first better data centre, then new servers or something :) | 14:05 |
| lcuk | melting polar ice raises the sea level so much | 14:05 |
| aquatix | bergie: will those new servers make the sites faster, or is that limited by the bandwidth available atm | 14:05 |
| lcuk | they are upgrading the internet connection from dialup to broadband | 14:06 |
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| bergie | aquatix: they should make the sites much faster... now by running mediawiki, midgard etc on same small box we are just completely out of resources | 14:06 |
| bergie | the new setup will be a cluster | 14:06 |
| aquatix | ah :) | 14:07 |
| aquatix | sounds good | 14:07 |
| aquatix | didn't know it was one poor box | 14:07 |
| * lcuk mutters something about lack of software optimisation recently | 14:07 | |
| bergie | it has been the same box since the beginning of the maemo project, I think | 14:07 |
| aquatix | lcuk: so true :/ | 14:07 |
| bergie | and since then we have been going from some hundreds of users to 12k | 14:07 |
| aquatix | bergie: it's glowing in the dark from sheer heat? | 14:07 |
| Stskeeps | isn't maemo.org running on a n770? :P | 14:08 |
| lcuk | if midgard and mediawiki were designed to run as fast as possible in a constrained environment (ie designed for NIT...) then when you DO run it on a big box it will flyyyyyyyyyyyyyy | 14:08 |
| bergie | aquatix: I'd imagine ;-) The loads are often 10+ | 14:08 |
| aquatix | ouch | 14:08 |
| lcuk | (and lots of other software as well) | 14:08 |
| bergie | lcuk: sure... but few server software is | 14:09 |
| bergie | though, in reality Midgard *is* available for maemo | 14:09 |
| lcuk | <bergie> lcuk: sure... but few software is | 14:09 |
| lcuk | bergie, im just anti-software bloat and very into optimisation | 14:10 |
| bergie | but the point is not running a full CMS on the tablet, but instead of use persistent, replicated storage features of it | 14:10 |
| lcuk | yes - if someone had to design a fully working 100% featureful CMS to run well on a tablet just think how much better it would be when run anywhere else? | 14:10 |
| bergie | lcuk: I think every software has some target platform, and both Midgard and MediaWiki have been designed for higher-end server environments... and if you run it all on a small box you end up in trouböe | 14:11 |
| bergie | trouble, that is | 14:11 |
| * aquatix wonders what makes these things so slow | 14:11 | |
| aquatix | db stuff? | 14:11 |
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| bergie | PHP parsing, DB, memory leaks in PHP etc | 14:11 |
| aquatix | i heard projects like pidgin had issues with their trac because of the slowness of the version control plugin | 14:11 |
| lcuk | yer bergie - thats the problem i see with lots of software for the NIT - big box software crammed into the nokia and running horrendously and not giving the best of what this platform has to offer | 14:12 |
| aquatix | and trac is python | 14:12 |
| bergie | aquatix: yeah, we saw a lot of Apache memory leaks with mod_python | 14:12 |
| * aquatix has a love/hate relationship with php | 14:12 | |
| bergie | lcuk: yeah... that is why next spring we will release a completely rewritten version of Midgard to battle the bloat and performance problems | 14:13 |
| lcuk | \o/ w000t | 14:13 |
| aquatix | cool | 14:13 |
| bergie | the current versions still have lots of code written in late 90s targeting PHP3... | 14:13 |
| aquatix | ouch | 14:13 |
| aquatix | sounds like some refactoring is in order indeed | 14:13 |
| bergie | a rewrite every 10 years is in order :-) | 14:13 |
| lcuk | but thats not wrong? old software was already constrained wasnt it? | 14:14 |
| aquatix | lcuk: well, php in 1998 was... quite basic :) | 14:14 |
| lcuk | its the bloat thats been added over the years | 14:14 |
| lcuk | GOOD | 14:14 |
| bergie | yes, what people want to do on the web has changed quite a bit since '97 when we started working on Midgard | 14:14 |
| *** lardman|gone is now known as lardman | 14:14 | |
| lardman | afternoon | 14:14 |
| Jaffa | lo lardman | 14:14 |
| lcuk | hi lardman | 14:14 |
| lardman | hi Jaffa, lcuk | 14:14 |
| lcuk | hi lurker jaffa | 14:15 |
| lcuk | i sent a mail to marius by the way, i found an irc stats program last night which may give useful extractable stats for the karma thing :) | 14:15 |
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| lcuk | bbiab | 14:16 |
| lardman | oh cool, will be interesting to see | 14:16 |
| lardman | lcuk: have you patched it to give: n_lines_lcuk *= 100; ? ;) | 14:16 |
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| aquatix | lardman: *= 42, that's less suspicious ;) | 14:17 |
| lardman | lol | 14:17 |
| Jaffa | lardman: he don't need it looking at the lines since January ;-) | 14:19 |
| lardman | true | 14:20 |
| lardman | :) | 14:20 |
| mib_f4c7z9 | where can i get this software? http://www.trendygadget.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/nokia_n800_iphone.jpg | 14:20 |
| jott | lardman: in fact it's n_lines_lcuk /= 10; so it does not seem lcuk is the only one always talking here ;P | 14:20 |
| lardman | World record for Garage project approval, about 2min | 14:20 |
| lardman | I wonder if X-Fade has set his mail client to automatically approve anything that comes in :) | 14:20 |
| Jaffa | mib_f4c7z9: iLauncher IIRC | 14:21 |
| Stskeeps | odd question.. what's the danger of mount -o remount,rw /mnt/initfs , add files, and mount -o remount,ro /mnt/initfs? | 14:23 |
| Stskeeps | on chinook | 14:23 |
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| Stskeeps | because it's stated that diablo allows for "rw" initfs, whereas it seems like chinook could do that just as easily :P | 14:24 |
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| lcuk | jott lardman, are you saying i post too many lines? | 14:37 |
| lcuk | if so you are wrong | 14:37 |
| lcuk | i dont monologue | 14:37 |
| * lcuk posts for karma | 14:37 | |
| lcuk | jott, what surprised me about the line count was kotzcarny - he hasnt been here for ages and i still havent caught up with him | 14:38 |
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| lcuk | this is the sort of stats i think we should have available: http://purl.rikers.org/stats/oe.html.gz | 14:40 |
| Mace_ | hm | 14:41 |
| Mace_ | anybody know of a good gui for sftp? | 14:41 |
| Mace_ | i heard there was a gftp for maemo.. never tried it though | 14:41 |
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| timeless | who was suggesting a WTF relating to file systems? | 14:44 |
| timeless | it turns out the problem in this case was related to file system ownership :) | 14:44 |
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| jott | lcuk: yes, kotzcarnys linecount is amazing, but if you didn't /= 10 on your line count you would be far on top :P | 14:46 |
| lcuk | :P | 14:46 |
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| kaie | I#ve flashed to diablo, I've reinstalled apps, afterwards I've carefully installed missing pieces from a /home/user backup, not overwriting stuff, and now the attempt to backup-with-settings still fails | 14:46 |
| lcuk | hey - i am on that list twice ! and i didnt /10 anything :P | 14:47 |
| kaie | fails => stalls, looping | 14:47 |
| kaie | maemo-launcher 99% cpu | 14:47 |
| kaie | disk use stable, does not increase | 14:48 |
| jott | maybe mgeadmin could run the pisg or something, he has very old logs and hosts them anyway. | 14:49 |
| timeless | kaie: still stracing? | 14:49 |
| kaie | timeless, I have an strace from the earlier OS release, and that told me, that osso-backup is repeatedly looping over the same files | 14:50 |
| timeless | might as well get another strace for this one :) | 14:50 |
| timeless | much better to file bugs in bugs.maemo.org based on current :) | 14:50 |
| timeless | (it can't be that hard) | 14:51 |
| kaie | timeless, I still have the strace logfile, I don't think things have changed | 14:51 |
| * timeless is in a meeting | 14:51 | |
| lcuk | jott, thats what i was thinki | 14:51 |
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| kaie | stracing and logging was painful and took a lot of time | 14:51 |
| lcuk | ng | 14:51 |
| lcuk | kaie, just post him your device :D | 14:51 |
| kaie | if he sends me n810 plus one | 14:52 |
| kaie | :-) | 14:52 |
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| kaie | oh interesting, maybe that helps. [pid 1863] open("/home/user/.purple/logs/irc/kaie2@irc.mozilla.org/", O_RDONLY|O_NONBLOCK|O_LARGEFILE|O_DIRECTORY) = -1 EMFILE (Too m | 14:53 |
| kaie | any open files) | 14:53 |
| kaie | maybe there is no check for this error case, and the app keeps trying | 14:53 |
| kaie | the last attempt to open a file got handle =1023 | 14:54 |
| kaie | the backup software appears to loop, opening many files, but not closing them | 14:54 |
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| kaie | I guess that's the default beahvior of the app | 14:54 |
| kaie | but does not affect average users with a limited number of files | 14:55 |
| eichi_ | is there a new version of bootmenu? | 14:56 |
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| eichi_ | that works after latest uss update? | 14:56 |
| kaie | timeless, create /home/user/.claws-mail and create 1000 files in it, then backup settings, and you should be able to reproduce | 14:56 |
| kaie | I'm guessing | 14:56 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: re your initfs question... | 14:56 |
| lbt | IIRC it's because jffs2 has a large eraseblock | 14:57 |
| lbt | so you can run out of space whilst saving | 14:57 |
| lbt | and cause corruption (I think) | 14:57 |
| lbt | and this is bad if you are editing linuxrc | 14:57 |
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| kaie | ok, let me file abug | 14:58 |
| pusling | so... where isn maemo-mapper user questios on topic ? | 14:58 |
| lbt | -user ml? or here | 14:58 |
| pusling | I will go for here then ;) | 14:58 |
| pusling | is there a way to mark places for later (based on the maps, not basedd on my location) | 14:59 |
| *** tjafk1 is now known as timj | 14:59 | |
| lbt | it's friday - everyone will be busy with work | 14:59 |
| lbt | BWAHAHAHAHA | 14:59 |
| lbt | POI | 14:59 |
| lbt | Points of Interest | 14:59 |
| lbt | I think I made them work... | 15:00 |
| lbt | hold down on the map and the popup appears | 15:00 |
| lbt | I think you can create a POI | 15:00 |
| lbt | (mm isn't on my current tablet rootfs so I can't check) | 15:00 |
| pusling | ah yes. I_have missed the full "hold down" part of it. | 15:01 |
| pusling | is there a way to add streetnames and submit to openstreetmap on my way around ? | 15:02 |
| lbt | don't think so | 15:02 |
| lbt | be nice though | 15:02 |
| lbt | there's an app called viking though | 15:03 |
| lbt | which I *think* is on the tablet somewhere | 15:03 |
| lbt | and it might | 15:03 |
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| pusling | I can't find viking in the application installer nor installed | 15:07 |
| lbt | probably on a third party site then | 15:08 |
| lbt | it's on my list to investigate... | 15:08 |
| lcuk | lbt, you are upping your irc post count "for greater karma" :D | 15:09 |
| lbt | nah - making a point for Dave N ;) | 15:09 |
| lcuk | lol | 15:09 |
| lardman | lcuk: where's the post count list then? | 15:12 |
| * jott thinks about getting a karma whore to make a point :P | 15:12 | |
| lcuk | on that email i posted a link | 15:12 |
| lcuk | im in vnc now and have a butty in hand so its a bit tough to switch and reopen mail | 15:12 |
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| jott | lardman: Â http://slexy.org/view/s20lAJ9KUY | 15:12 |
| lardman | thanks | 15:14 |
| lcuk | one thing though, all people on the list, do not show to significant others :P | 15:14 |
| lardman | lol | 15:14 |
| lardman | ah well, won't do my karma any harm anyway | 15:14 |
| lcuk | it eill when they filter out bacon posts | 15:15 |
| lardman | lol | 15:15 |
| lardman | and lols | 15:15 |
| jott | hehe i think dneary want to have lines_on_irc_modifier = -1 | 15:15 |
| jott | lcuk that would give you a whooping -24000 karma ;) | 15:16 |
| lcuk | w000t i am the anti hacker | 15:16 |
| *** Luria has quit IRC | 15:17 | |
| * jott still has to write the "love-bot" for his 300 extra karma | 15:17 | |
| *** Luria has joined #maemo | 15:18 | |
| lardman | I understand the issue people may have having with not enough karma to vote, but striving for karma is un-karmic | 15:18 |
| lbt | not | 15:18 |
| lcuk | dneary has 671 posts | 15:18 |
| lbt | at | 15:18 |
| XTL | Another piece of evidence about karma's flawedness | 15:18 |
| lbt | the | 15:18 |
| lbt | minute | 15:18 |
| lbt | mardman | 15:18 |
| lbt | oops | 15:18 |
| lcuk | lbt, you lose :P | 15:19 |
| lbt | s/mardman/lardman/ | 15:19 |
| lbt | damn | 15:19 |
| lbt | bad | 15:19 |
| lbt | syntax | 15:19 |
| lcuk | maybe i should look for something like "thanks [nick]" | 15:19 |
| jott | lbt: remember you get -1 karma per line :p | 15:19 |
| lardman | well lines with less than a certain number of words should be filtered out | 15:19 |
| lcuk | and count that as karma | 15:19 |
| lbt | I'm | 15:19 |
| lbt | going for rollover karma | 15:19 |
| lbt | backwards | 15:19 |
| lbt | the only way to beat Quim | 15:19 |
| lcuk | lardman, its interaction to any tune, im not bothered how much it counts, but just would like to see the good work we do in here showing up | 15:20 |
| lbt | overflow | 15:20 |
| lcuk | lol lbt | 15:20 |
| jott | hm i think it's not that hard to get on place one with karma if you really want to. | 15:20 |
| lbt | yeah - like a GPL liqbase ;) | 15:20 |
| lardman | lcuk: yeah, but does it need to be given a numerical rating? | 15:20 |
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| eichi_ | if i have so much problems with this dual boot, nokia forces me to go back to the old intern memory default system style....this kind of forces are not the linux like way..... | 15:20 |
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| lcuk | no - karma as a game is bad: slashdot stopped displaying it as a number eventually | 15:20 |
| lcuk | it was fun to bait it | 15:21 |
| lbt | eichi_: I've been thinking about how to get a dual-boot friendly linuxrc to Nokia | 15:21 |
| lardman | anyway, got to go, speak to you chaps over the weekend (wedding to go to though) | 15:21 |
| lcuk | eichi_, sorry, this is irc according to dneary we arent meant to help you | 15:21 |
| *** lardman is now known as lardman|gone | 15:21 | |
| jott | lcuk: karma as an (automatic) form of measurement is bad. | 15:21 |
| lcuk | eichi_, i have seen a number of people with this same problem | 15:21 |
| lbt | have a look here: https://wiki.maemo.org/Advanced_booting | 15:22 |
| lbt | no howto | 15:22 |
| eichi_ | lcuk, its not a problem, its a feature from nokia | 15:22 |
| lcuk | its the linux way as long as you stop updating from the ofificial source which expects a certain layout to its device | 15:22 |
| eichi_ | my hope is mamona | 15:22 |
| jott | eichi_: one way could be to backup your initfs partition and then reflash it when nokia "currupts" it. | 15:23 |
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| lbt | jott: but they may change kernel drivers | 15:23 |
| lbt | eek | 15:23 |
| kaie | timeless, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3588 and logfile with comments, I think that should help you fix it | 15:23 |
| lbt | nah, they need a plug system | 15:23 |
| lcuk | is this like microsoft b0rkening the partition table and boot sector after installing? | 15:23 |
| jott | you can probably also get around by installing the -unlocked package and then install your own version of kernel and initfs packages with a large version number. | 15:24 |
| eichi_ | lcuk, you got it | 15:25 |
| eichi_ | its the "my and no other" comercial kind of way of software | 15:25 |
| jott | and the "you ain't get support for haxoring" :) | 15:26 |
| lcuk | its the we expect the user to have a stable device using the configuration layout specified by us. i agree its wrong and nokia should allow a way to keep your unofficial bootloader etc since it shouldnt effect the rest of the system | 15:26 |
| jott | with my "solution" above you should be pretty sure. | 15:27 |
| jott | erm it should be working.. | 15:27 |
| lbt | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3589 | 15:28 |
| eichi_ | one of the problems is, the SSupdate updated not the system on mmc (the running one) it updated the internal system, which i dont use | 15:28 |
| lbt | "Initfs reflashes break multi-boot" | 15:29 |
| * lcuk still cant believe 23k LOC (lines of chat) | 15:29 | |
| lbt | bbl | 15:29 |
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| lbt | sausage butties await... | 15:29 |
| jott | lbt: i bet this will get a WONTFIX.. | 15:29 |
| eichi_ | jott, you got my message? | 15:29 |
| jott | uh? | 15:29 |
| eichi_ | <eichi_> one of the problems is, the SSupdate updated not the system on mmc (the running one) it updated the internal system, which i dont use | 15:30 |
| jott | ah | 15:30 |
| jott | eichi_: yeah well you would have to install your own kernel/initfs packages on the systems you want to update | 15:30 |
| lcuk | or the SSU might actually check where its running | 15:31 |
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| * lcuk is as guilty as anyone for assuming hard written paths | 15:31 | |
| jott | na it just gets the updated initfs/kernel as package and flashes it. | 15:31 |
| jott | no matter where your rootfs is :) | 15:31 |
| lcuk | to the wrong place | 15:31 |
| eichi_ | lcuk, thats what i mean if i think "not the linux way" | 15:32 |
| jott | lcuk: there is only one place for the kernel/initfs no matter how you boot. | 15:32 |
| jott | eichi_: i still doubt nokia will accept it as a problem :( | 15:32 |
| lcuk | ahh i thought it was like the boot area of a specific device | 15:33 |
| lcuk | not a single area for the whole computer | 15:33 |
| jott | lcuk: unfortunatley this is not possible yet. | 15:33 |
| * lcuk learns something new | 15:33 | |
| jott | (like choosing your own kernel and initfs at boot time) | 15:33 |
| lcuk | no jott, thats ok - it at least makes sense now and i can see why its happening | 15:33 |
| eichi_ | hm, now i will reflash the n800 and use is the common way...with some tears in my eyes... | 15:34 |
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| jott | eichi_: why is that? you can reflash just kernel and initfs at any time.. | 15:34 |
| lcuk | jott, so is there any other way round this by using other tricks: like as soon into the boot as possible map all FS branches onto mmcX? rather than replacing the whole lot? | 15:35 |
| jott | and you can even boot from mmc with the nokia initfs. | 15:35 |
| lbt | jott: re WONTFIX : submit a reasonable patch though... | 15:35 |
| eichi_ | johnx, is there a howto? | 15:35 |
| jott | eichi_: you can just use flasher to set the root device for the nokia initfs. | 15:36 |
| eichi_ | and what about initfs only? i want the maemo kernel updates maybe | 15:36 |
| lbt | I think you'd need kexec - but I think the hardware limitations make it unlikely (!) | 15:36 |
| jott | eichi_: just make a backup of your initfs and copy it to your pc. you can use flasher to just flash the initfs later. | 15:36 |
| trickie | unless the modules in the initfs don't work with a newer kernel | 15:37 |
| lbt | but make a backup of the new initfs | 15:37 |
| jott | lcuk: the bootloader is closed source, and without serial/jtag it is no fun testing stuff at this level ;) | 15:37 |
| lcuk | cant you keep it on old original partition and use internal flash | 15:37 |
| lbt | 'cos if the kernel changes then toasty... | 15:37 |
| lcuk | all this is why i dont like custom kernel changes - you get used to an aftermarket feature and after a standard update you are back to sqaure one | 15:38 |
| lcuk | jott, your rotation patch - can it be done with insmod type things, or does it require the kernel change | 15:39 |
| jott | lcuk: but this is just since diablo. before your kernel was not touched until a full reflash :) | 15:39 |
| lbt | the wiki page is supposed to inform about how to get back to things like that easily | 15:39 |
| lcuk | but every update from nokia was a fullflash | 15:39 |
| jott | lcuk: it touches the lcd driver which is not loaded as a module - so no. | 15:40 |
| lcuk | ok | 15:40 |
| jott | but i think we need to think about a proper way of delivering custom kernels anyway. | 15:40 |
| jott | to prevent automatic updates. | 15:40 |
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| lcuk | or to re-apply after automatic updates | 15:41 |
| jott | i am more and more sure that we need something better than -unlocked like -community | 15:41 |
| trickie | lcuk: but if your initfs has modules for the newer kerne than re-applying may stuff you up | 15:41 |
| jott | which in turn has to be updated by the community on ssu updates. | 15:41 |
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| lcuk | trickie, indeed and its a trickie problem to solve | 15:42 |
| jott | trickie: what do you think would be the "best" solution? | 15:42 |
| trickie | hehe i was afraid someone would ask me | 15:42 |
| trickie | i really do not know... | 15:43 |
| lbt | Maybe files in existing /mnt/initfs/local should be linked to the new initfs. | 15:43 |
| jott | i can only see it by having a osso-software-version-community with proper packages. | 15:43 |
| lbt | then any kernel version modules would go into lib/modules/kern-ver | 15:43 |
| lcuk | ok, supposing the initfs and kernel have changed, but there is nothing wrong with the old one can we not just tell ssu to ignore major kernel updates? | 15:43 |
| trickie | jott: yes a meta-package that blocks auto-kernel/initfs updates seems to be the only way | 15:43 |
| jott | it would be greate to convince nokia to inform people about ssu 1-2 days before.. | 15:44 |
| Mace_ | Stskeeps - how is that nit-debian distro coming along? | 15:44 |
| jott | so the community could prepare the software-version packages .. but that's just dreaming :/ | 15:44 |
| lbt | now *that* is council material | 15:44 |
| Mace_ | :) | 15:44 |
| trickie | lcuk: yes we could block the update using a meta-package like what jott said | 15:44 |
| Mace_ | i'm waiting for one with built in bt utilities heh | 15:44 |
| Mace_ | something as easy to hook up to my phone as maemo/hildon | 15:45 |
| lcuk | by the way, i never heard back from the bank about those credit card details i got. any ideas what i should do with em? | 15:45 |
| lcuk | trickie, great | 15:45 |
| lbt | Mace_: wait 'til October | 15:45 |
| lbt | lcuk: let The Register know... | 15:46 |
| Mace_ | lbt? | 15:46 |
| Mace_ | what happens in october? | 15:46 |
| lbt | Nokia releases the API for BT connectivity to their entire phone range | 15:47 |
| lbt | not sure *which* october mind... | 15:47 |
| Mace_ | nit-debian was so awesome :) other than the sound support being a little odd and setting up bt stuff to connect (like my n95 and su8w) | 15:47 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, slexy 'em | 15:47 |
| lcuk | lbt, i contacted john leyden at the reg a while ago | 15:47 |
| Mace_ | i thought they were releasing all of symbian | 15:47 |
| Mace_ | they just bought it recently and were going to open it up | 15:48 |
| lcuk | july 24th | 15:48 |
| glass_ | Mace_: the opensourcing is a long term thing | 15:48 |
| brontide | I really don't understand why they applied all sorts of weird restrictions to the community council | 15:48 |
| Mace_ | i know.. but they are trying to compete with the google phone os | 15:48 |
| lbt | send a message to Bruce Schneier - he's fairly interested | 15:48 |
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| glass_ | Mace_: and i doubt it would be possible to build your own symbian and flash it even then.. | 15:48 |
| lbt | kind of "what am I *supposed* to do?" | 15:48 |
| Mace_ | glass - heh.. probably.. but it is amazing what people do with open source stuff | 15:48 |
| lcuk | lbt, ill talk to you later about it - work calls | 15:48 |
| lbt | 'k | 15:49 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, i wont slexy them - theres people from all over | 15:49 |
| Mace_ | they better get the jump on google | 15:49 |
| glass_ | Mace_: it will be useful for figuring out the poorly documented apis | 15:49 |
| glass_ | Mace_: and the undocumented apis | 15:49 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, if they're even real | 15:49 |
| kaie | oh that's funny. "cd /; find . -type f | wc -l " , this give me "too many open files" | 15:49 |
| lcuk | oh they are real alright, theres one from my town | 15:50 |
| Mace_ | well.. i'm going to see if i can dig up an older 2G sd and put the nit-debian beta3 on it | 15:50 |
| Mace_ | just to try getting the bt working .. it seems like it SHOULD work | 15:50 |
| Mace_ | i think it's missing modules for the dun | 15:50 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, which "town" are you in? | 15:51 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, SE12 0UQ | 15:51 |
| crashanddie | Lee | 15:51 |
| lbt | crashanddie: go outside and wave - I want to see you on google maps... | 15:52 |
| crashanddie | hang on | 15:52 |
| XTL | Ooh, there's a prism for maemo? | 15:53 |
| lbt | <sigh> put some trousers on crashanddie.... | 15:53 |
| crashanddie | lbt, no that's not me | 15:53 |
| lcuk | its not the lack of trousers that bothers me, its the fleshlight he forgot to take off | 15:53 |
| lcuk | anyway, on that karmaburning note im gonna go back to work | 15:54 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, I doubt IRC is ever going to make it in the karma process | 15:55 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, if it does, I'm going to get dust off my monologue script | 15:55 |
| crashanddie | s/get // | 15:55 |
| infobot | crashanddie meant: lcuk, if it does, I'm going to dust off my monologue script | 15:55 |
| jott | crashanddie: you can easily gain karma with scripts right now | 15:55 |
| crashanddie | jott, yeah I know | 15:55 |
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| crashanddie | jott, and I might just start doing it just to prove how stupid it is | 15:56 |
| lcuk | go and vote up all bugs and posts and things | 15:56 |
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| Jaffa | crashanddie: and then the ops will ban you. | 15:56 |
| jott | crashanddie: yeah thats what i thought | 15:56 |
| jott | Jaffa: why? | 15:56 |
| lardman | thought I'd come back and karma-whore a little ;) | 15:56 |
| Jaffa | It's easy to spam IRC; it's easy to spot the spammers too and handle them | 15:56 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa, who said you'd be able to link me ? | 15:56 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: if you want the karma, to "prove" the system's broken, you have to have an identifiable script. | 15:57 |
| Jaffa | s/script/nick/ | 15:57 |
| infobot | Jaffa meant: crashanddie: if you want the karma, to "prove" the system's broken, you have to have an identifiable nick. | 15:57 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa, oh and yeah, create a garage maemo account is so secure | 15:57 |
| jott | i wonder how much karma darius jack has :P | 15:57 |
| crashanddie | creating** | 15:57 |
| brontide | I'm sponsored to germany, but according to the rules I can't vote or be nominated | 15:58 |
| crashanddie | I mean, no one could possibly create a bogus nickname on maemo.org, or even use a bogus nickname here in IRC, just to prove how broken it is | 15:58 |
| Jaffa | I think it's interesting that those of you who think karma's a bad idea and useless and shouldn't be used also talk about resorting to vandalism to make your point. | 15:58 |
| crashanddie | and no one could possibly use a server say, in France, or another one in Belgium, or another one in Spain, so that they can't possibly be linked with a real user | 15:58 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa, which vandalism ? | 15:59 |
| timeless | brontide: why can't you vote? | 15:59 |
| jott | Jaffa: because we think the whole concept is flawed | 15:59 |
| Jaffa | FFS, when the karma system was first introduced one of the reasons given was to help decide who'd get future device discounts; but now you're fussing over voting on an potentially ineffectual council. | 15:59 |
| brontide | because my maemo.org account is not old enough | 15:59 |
| lardman | anyone fancy working out the structure of the dsp eap calls? I could do with an eap sink | 15:59 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: spamming the IRC channel would be vandalism IMHO | 15:59 |
| brontide | despite my participation in the community going back at least a year | 15:59 |
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| crashanddie | Please don't insult our intelligence by defaming us and calling us vandals, considering that, AFAIK, there's no one spamming just yet | 15:59 |
| crashanddie | we're just talking about it | 16:00 |
| timeless | discussing attacking a system in some places can get you arrested :) | 16:00 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: I said you were talking about resorting to vandalism. That's what you've just said as well. I didn't call you a vandal, nor insult your intelligence. | 16:00 |
| XTL | Looks dead :( | 16:01 |
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| crashanddie | Jaffa, no, I said "I might", small difference, but difference nonetheless | 16:01 |
| kaie | does someone want to confirm bug 3588? | 16:01 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: eh? I said you were "talking about resorting to vandalism", you've just said "we're just talking about it". Where's the gap? I honestly can't see any difference between the two phrases. | 16:02 |
| jott | i think its only that karma whores fear their karma might be in danger.. | 16:02 |
| crashanddie | jott, lol | 16:03 |
| timeless | kaie: find *fails* ? | 16:03 |
| XTL | 3588 looks like yet another purple/claws vs backup bug? | 16:03 |
| andre__ | err... where do we have the new logo to use now (png/svg)? somewhere in the wiki? i've only found the broken new one at https://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Maemo_org_logo_colour.png | 16:03 |
| kaie | timeless, time on / reports errors, yes, but that's just a funny side notice | 16:03 |
| andre__ | kaie: sure that's not bug 3425? | 16:03 |
| timeless | andre__: steal hte one from mxr.maemo.org :) | 16:04 |
| XTL | that's what I mean | 16:04 |
| brontide | If I had wanted to karma whore I would have been eligible as a candidite, but still not able to vote. | 16:04 |
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| kaie | andre__, I can try to create such a file for testing | 16:04 |
| andre__ | timeless, that's also a broken new one. the R is lower than the rest | 16:04 |
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| timeless | um | 16:04 |
| lardman | Any thoughts about implementing IPC on the DSP? | 16:05 |
| crashanddie | brontide, sorry ? | 16:05 |
| andre__ | kaie, well.. you're sure your problem in 3588 isn't a sideeffect of having bad letters in filenames (see bug 3425)? | 16:05 |
| crashanddie | lardman, ouch | 16:05 |
| timeless | http://wiki.maemo.org/images/8/8f/Maemo_org_logo.png | 16:05 |
| timeless | was what i was told to use by Peter | 16:05 |
| crashanddie | lardman, normal sockets don't work ? | 16:05 |
| kaie | andre__, I don't know, that's why I propose I create such a file and try | 16:06 |
| crashanddie | lardman, unnamed sockets, that is | 16:06 |
| Jaffa | brontide: interesting. No-one's pointed out yet that candidates don't have the account age requirement. | 16:06 |
| andre__ | kaie, ah. ok, please try :) | 16:06 |
| brontide | I'm not really upset. I can't really spend my life following the discussions, but I see that others have brought up the point | 16:06 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa, I think it was one part of the first emails, but we must've forgotten it along the road | 16:06 |
| andre__ | timeless, ok, confusion. i'm going to send an email to the list... | 16:06 |
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| timeless | andre__: what do you mean the r is lower? | 16:06 |
| timeless | oh, you mean the top of the r | 16:07 |
| timeless | the baseline is fine | 16:07 |
| lardman | crashanddie: there are no socket libraries | 16:07 |
| eichi_ | does agps works on n800 devices? | 16:07 |
| kaie | you allow me to paste 2 lines | 16:07 |
| kaie | ~ $ ls -l /home/user/.claws-mail/\#test | 16:07 |
| kaie | -rw-r--r-- 1 user users 6 Aug 15 15:01 /home/user/.claws-mail/#test | 16:07 |
| kaie | andre__, works fine with that file present | 16:07 |
| Jaffa | timeless: yeah, that's it. | 16:07 |
| andre__ | timeless, yeah the top | 16:07 |
| lardman | eichi_: probably does grab the data, but it has nothing to send it to | 16:07 |
| eichi_ | lardman, means: no!? | 16:07 |
| timeless | you should have said shorter, not lower | 16:07 |
| andre__ | kaie, so it's a different bug. please add a comment to the bug too that it's not the same ;-) | 16:07 |
| andre__ | timeless, i don't speak english well that early in the morning ;-) | 16:08 |
| kaie | andre__, I'd rather suspects it's the other way round. I suspect it's just a guess that #@ are the cause? | 16:08 |
| lardman | eichi_: well you'd need to write some code to format and send the agps data to your particular bt gps, so atm no | 16:08 |
| kaie | while in reality it might be the number of files present | 16:08 |
| timeless | kaie: how important is this? | 16:08 |
| * timeless could look at the code... | 16:08 | |
| kaie | timeless, I'd says it's critical for everyone who flashes and doesn't want to start over with settings? | 16:09 |
| andre__ | the definition of "critical" is different ;-) | 16:09 |
| * timeless starts indexing w32 and goes to find the sources for backup | 16:10 | |
| RST38h | moo, all | 16:10 |
| kaie | well, I'm glad I found a workaround. If you don't have time to work on it, I propose this workaround should be made well known | 16:10 |
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| crashanddie | lardman, no pipes either ? | 16:10 |
| timeless | kaie: ok.... any hints about what's functionally going on | 16:11 |
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| * timeless decides to look for "settings" | 16:11 | |
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| kaie | timeless, see my comments in the attachment in that bug | 16:11 |
| crashanddie | lardman, what language are you using ? | 16:12 |
| lardman | crashanddie: C | 16:12 |
| crashanddie | lardman, do you have unistd.h ? | 16:12 |
| * timeless chases settings for a bit | 16:12 | |
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| kaie | timeless, before the settings-backup starts, it does a scan over all files, and opens them all, without closing them (apparently) | 16:12 |
| timeless | oh man | 16:12 |
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| timeless | ok, let's see if 'fopen' is helpful | 16:13 |
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| timeless | cool, itg is | 16:13 |
| timeless | alright, this shoudl be fast | 16:13 |
| lardman | crashanddie: not sure, but will do some looking | 16:14 |
| crashanddie | lardman, if you have access to unistd.h, you should have pipe() (man 2 pipe), which is a basic but effective IPC | 16:15 |
| timeless | hrm, fopen callers seem ok | 16:15 |
| lardman | crashanddie: that's implemented in the kernel though isn't it? | 16:15 |
| timeless | oh great, gvfs | 16:15 |
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| timeless | heh, winzip has its own image vviewer | 16:16 |
| kaie | timeless, do you have rights to change the bug to NEW? | 16:17 |
| timeless | i'm an admin :) | 16:17 |
| crashanddie | lardman, it's worth the try | 16:17 |
| timeless | ok, this code is scary | 16:17 |
| crashanddie | timeless, which code ? Slexy it | 16:18 |
| timeless | sorry, it's commercial :) | 16:18 |
| crashanddie | I'll sign an NDA with ya | 16:18 |
| * kaie goes back to the work he's supposed to do | 16:18 | |
| crashanddie | :P | 16:18 |
| lardman | crashanddie: no, it's not there | 16:18 |
| lardman | crashanddie: I'll have to peak at the kernel code and see if I can mis-use some fn there to communicate | 16:19 |
| timeless | kaie: ok, foudn the code | 16:19 |
| timeless | vfs_utils_count_files_helper | 16:19 |
| kaie | great! thas was quick | 16:19 |
| timeless | which is recursive | 16:20 |
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| timeless | kaie: this is week 30, right? | 16:21 |
| * timeless wonders what week this source code is (probably 31) | 16:21 | |
| timeless | oh, good,, backup hasn't changed in recent memory | 16:21 |
| * timeless goes back to reading | 16:21 | |
| crashanddie | lardman, I think you're better off looking at stuff such as SPOX and Spectron, IIRC, those are fully featured real-time dsp-run OSes, so you might have interesting stuff in there | 16:21 |
| lardman | ah, looks like there's some more stuff hidden in the dsp/bios | 16:22 |
| lardman | might find something suitable in here | 16:22 |
| crashanddie | heh, happy digging | 16:23 |
| lardman | :) | 16:23 |
| kaie | timeless, right now my calendar says this is week 33 | 16:23 |
| timeless | kaie: yeah, but the image you have on your device is from 30 | 16:23 |
| lardman | buffered pipes, cool :) | 16:24 |
| timeless | and the sources i'm reading are technically from 31, but the eexact same sources were in 30 :) | 16:24 |
| kaie | timeless, I have the official image, I think I read it was released in june | 16:24 |
| timeless | oh | 16:24 |
| timeless | this isn't the update? | 16:24 |
| timeless | um, ... some other number, either way, the code hasn't changed :) | 16:24 |
| kaie | ok, there was an update. what version number do you need? | 16:24 |
| kaie | where can I find it | 16:24 |
| timeless | cat /etc/osso_software_version | 16:25 |
| timeless | well, this code is cute | 16:25 |
| timeless | gnome_vfs_directory_open_from_uri(...) | 16:25 |
| timeless | gnome_vfs_file_info_new() | 16:25 |
| timeless | while (1) | 16:26 |
| timeless | { | 16:26 |
| timeless | gnome_vfs_directory_read_next(...) | 16:26 |
| timeless | ... | 16:26 |
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| timeless | gnome_vfs_file_info_clear(...) | 16:26 |
| kaie | timeless, RX-34+RX-44+RX-48_DIABLO_4.2008.30-2_PR_MR0 | 16:26 |
| timeless | } | 16:26 |
| timeless | kaie: the 30 there is a week number | 16:26 |
| kaie | ok | 16:26 |
| timeless | anyway | 16:26 |
| crashanddie | Anyway, 0226, and haven't had something in my stomach yet, time for coffee, loads of it, ttyl | 16:26 |
| timeless | for people who want to know why this code is cute | 16:27 |
| crashanddie | lardman, there's buffered pipes ? AWESOME ! | 16:27 |
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| timeless | http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/osso-gnome-vfs2-2.16.3/libgnomevfs/gnome-vfs-directory.c?mark=209#204 | 16:27 |
| timeless | so, anyone see what's clever about this code? :) | 16:27 |
| trickie | its already calls gnome_vfs_file_info_clear? | 16:28 |
| crashanddie | timeless, you empty the pointer before putting new stuff in it ? | 16:29 |
| trickie | but im not really paying attanetion | 16:29 |
| crashanddie | which then also closes the file ? | 16:29 |
| timeless | crash: the caller clears, and then the callee also clears | 16:29 |
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| * timeless sighs | 16:36 | |
| timeless | void *new; | 16:36 |
| * timeless doesn't like C | 16:36 | |
| timeless | kaie, stupid question | 16:37 |
| timeless | is it opening files or just directories? | 16:37 |
| timeless | from reading the code, it looked like it opened (recursively) folders | 16:38 |
| timeless | from reading your log, i see the same thing | 16:38 |
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| kaie | let me look | 16:41 |
| kaie | timeless, do you want the full strace file? | 16:41 |
| timeless | not really | 16:41 |
| timeless | i think i have both code blobs identified | 16:41 |
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| timeless | just a quick sanity check that it's only keeping dirs open would be good | 16:42 |
| timeless | also, if you could figure out how it gets up to 12 files | 16:42 |
| kaie | timeless, yes only folders it seems | 16:42 |
| kaie | keep open? | 16:43 |
| kaie | hmm | 16:43 |
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| timeless | because a quick look through the code shows it shouldnt' have more than one per path | 16:43 |
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| timeless | and that should based on your log only be a couple | 16:43 |
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| timeless | so i'm wondering where the *other* file handles are | 16:43 |
| timeless | (should it have closed them too?) | 16:43 |
| kaie | timeless, when it is stuck in the without file handles left, it will try to open folders, but only to lstat64 on files | 16:43 |
| kaie | timeless, it appears it opened the same directory over and over again, without closing it | 16:44 |
| kaie | /home/user/.purple/logs/irc/kaie2@irc.mozilla.org/ | 16:44 |
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| kaie | 1000 times | 16:45 |
| timeless | is this before or after your log snippets? | 16:45 |
| kaie | my final log snippet is when it is already stuck without handles | 16:46 |
| kaie | let me confirm what I put there | 16:46 |
| kaie | timeless, search for = 1023 from the end | 16:46 |
| kaie | that same directory gets opened 1000 more times before | 16:46 |
| kaie | and after the =1023 it tries again and fails | 16:47 |
| kaie | and it continues to try | 16:47 |
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| kaie | sometimes it is able to close 1 or 2 handles, but then it just opens the same thing | 16:48 |
| kaie | and again... | 16:48 |
| kaie | egrep -w "open|close" log-osso-backup-settings | less | 16:48 |
| kaie | this is all about the same path | 16:49 |
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| timeless | kaie: sorry, i've lost your link | 16:50 |
| kaie | what link? to the bug? | 16:50 |
| kaie | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3588 | 16:51 |
| kaie | https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=873 | 16:51 |
| timeless | oh right, bugs | 16:51 |
| * timeless was looking for a pastebin | 16:51 | |
| timeless | oh, eww | 16:52 |
| * timeless frowns | 16:52 | |
| timeless | this code doesn't look good | 16:52 |
| timeless | ok, i found one instance of a file handle leak | 16:53 |
| timeless | absolutely clear | 16:53 |
| timeless | andre__: if i confirm a bug, will you import it? | 16:53 |
| andre__ | yes | 16:53 |
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| timeless | kaie: confirmed. andre__: import :) | 16:54 |
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| andre__ | err... you refer to a specific report here i guess. in general: no, not always :) | 16:54 |
| andre__ | hehe, ok | 16:54 |
| timeless | andre__: i hate dealing w/ the internal bug tracking policies | 16:55 |
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| timeless | kaie: the clear leak is on a failure case which should only happen once | 16:55 |
| timeless | it's not the core problem | 16:55 |
| timeless | the possible loop is real | 16:55 |
| timeless | and could explain the other things | 16:56 |
| timeless | but i'm still not sure on the primary leak | 16:56 |
| * timeless is going to read some other code | 16:56 | |
| timeless | Setup a monitor. Note: those monitors are leaked on purpose | 16:57 |
| timeless | hrm, that sounds promising :) | 16:57 |
| timeless | (actually, it's in debug code, so it isn't interesting) | 16:58 |
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| timeless | eww | 16:58 |
| brontide | that's not good. more iky code | 16:59 |
| brontide | If it were open source, we might have found this a while ago ;-) | 16:59 |
| timeless | kaie: ok, my /guess/ is that g_dir_read_name will fail, and return a result which causes a loop | 17:00 |
| kaie | congrats! sounds like you're very close to a fix | 17:01 |
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| timeless | well, i need to figure out if i'm really claiming this is a bug in gnomevfs | 17:02 |
| timeless | (of course, that's EOLd) | 17:02 |
| brontide | heh | 17:02 |
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| brontide | what's the replacement for gnomevfs... fuse? | 17:03 |
| timeless | hrm, "this didn't work" | 17:03 |
| Jaffa | brontide: GIO, isn't it? | 17:03 |
| brontide | Silly name, but yes... that appears to be it | 17:04 |
| timeless | http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/osso-gnome-vfs2-2.16.3/modules/file-method.c?mark=1052-1055,1085,1088-1091#1051 | 17:04 |
| timeless | kaie, ignore the fact that something's really wrong w/ the line listing | 17:04 |
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| timeless | imagine someone calls readdir and while it isn't EOF and while it isn't OK it keeps trying | 17:05 |
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| andre__ | brontide, GIO within glib and the backends themselves are in gvfs | 17:08 |
| * lcuk hates code with more #ifdef ...#else ... #endif lines than code | 17:09 | |
| lcuk | timeless, readdir is only for win32 isnt it | 17:10 |
| timeless | kaie: ok, i've fixed the collapsing thing | 17:10 |
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| lcuk | ahhh sorry backwards ;) told you i hate them | 17:10 |
| timeless | lcuk: oops, so 1083 not 1085 | 17:10 |
| timeless | you're riight, i tagged the wrong line | 17:10 |
| timeless | http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/osso-gnome-vfs2-2.16.3/modules/file-method.c?mark=1052-1055,1083,1088-1091#1051 | 17:11 |
| lcuk | timeless, does your IDE have the option to hide the #ifdef blocks, if so try it and see how much cleaner the code is | 17:12 |
| timeless | i don't have an ide | 17:12 |
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| timeless | all i have is mxr :) | 17:12 |
| timeless | what you're looking at is what i have | 17:12 |
| timeless | mxr actually tries to balance ifdefs | 17:12 |
| lcuk | and just some editor? | 17:12 |
| timeless | notepad, firefox, vi, nano | 17:13 |
| lcuk | it does, but for actual code tracing purposes, hiding the #ifdef blocks out of scope would make your life easier | 17:13 |
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| timeless | i should see about teaching mxr to let you style them hidden | 17:13 |
| lcuk | yer - sounds reasonable, its so easy to glance up and read something from the wrong branch | 17:14 |
| timeless | well, mxr doesn't know which branch to take | 17:14 |
| timeless | but it could let you define a user style sheet which tells it | 17:14 |
| timeless | or use jesse's live styles thing | 17:14 |
| timeless | it could probably even give you checkboxes for turning on/off styles | 17:15 |
| lcuk | thats why you let it be an option :P just a ticksheet at the top for the #ifdef choices within? | 17:15 |
| lcuk | :D | 17:15 |
| * lcuk runs back to wrk anyway | 17:16 | |
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| lcuk | im gonna keep this mxr link open and investigate some more | 17:16 |
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| timeless | andre__/kaie: ok, bug filed | 17:19 |
| timeless | that should explain the infinite loop | 17:20 |
| kaie | great work :-) | 17:20 |
| timeless | note that the code is not a verbatim copy, but it shouldn't take much effort for someone to find the internal code :) | 17:20 |
| timeless | that still doesn't explain the hundreds of opens | 17:20 |
| timeless | kaie: how big is the real log file? | 17:21 |
| kaie | 5 mb, and I could probably cut off a lot of dupe lines at the end | 17:21 |
| kaie | timeless, want it your email gmail account? | 17:22 |
| timeless | yeah | 17:22 |
| timeless | the sources are spread over ~20 files, it's well organized | 17:23 |
| timeless | but not knowing it, being able to read through that strace will help | 17:23 |
| timeless | there are a couple of passes | 17:23 |
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| timeless | i'm not sure how many yet :) | 17:23 |
| timeless | there's definitely a "how much space will this thing take" pass | 17:23 |
| timeless | and there's obviously an "archive it!" pass | 17:23 |
| timeless | but i need to know which pass is actively being stupid | 17:23 |
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| kaie | sent | 17:24 |
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| timeless | btw, thanks for getting 443284 done | 17:24 |
| kaie | you're welcome, still many to go on my to do list | 17:24 |
| timeless | one thing though... | 17:24 |
| timeless | hg makes it easy to assign ownership to changes | 17:25 |
| timeless | so it's slightly better to do: | 17:25 |
| timeless | hg commit -u timeless@mozdev.org -m "fixes from attachment XXX for bug YYY" | 17:25 |
| timeless | hg commit -u that_other_guy -m "fixes from attachment XX2 for bug YYY" | 17:25 |
| kaie | good to know, thx | 17:25 |
| timeless | and then hg push the pair | 17:25 |
| timeless | that way blame is assigned properly | 17:25 |
| kaie | cool | 17:25 |
| timeless | note that i don't believe in -m | 17:25 |
| timeless | and for reference, @mozdev.org is the checkin address for me :) | 17:26 |
| timeless | but don't try mailing me there, i don't read it | 17:26 |
| timeless | (i can get it, but... it's gb's of unread data) | 17:26 |
| timeless | dear spammers: i won't notice your spam in the bugmail sea so please don't bother sending mail to me | 17:26 |
| aquatix | GB waster! | 17:28 |
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| timeless | aquatix: tell me about it | 17:28 |
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| timeless | hrm, mozillausers-central is only like ~10gb of data | 17:30 |
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| timeless | the browser itself is ~26gb | 17:30 |
| * timeless didn't realize how tiny the browser was :) | 17:30 | |
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| timeless | err | 17:30 |
| timeless | userscentral | 17:30 |
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| * qwerty12 coughs :P | 17:30 | |
| timeless | qwerty12: http://mxr.maemo.org/garage-all/source/browser/mozilla/branches/ | 17:31 |
| qwerty12 | :) | 17:32 |
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| * timeless kicks firefox | 17:44 | |
| timeless | pasting multiple lines into the fast find bar doesn't seem to work very well | 17:44 |
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| qwerty12 | Anyone recompiled cx3110x here? | 17:50 |
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| eichi_ | i copied some files via usb to my maemo device, no i cant delete ur use them. via usb i got Stale NFS file handle and from the device itself i get I/O error trying to use this file | 17:55 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12, recompiled ? | 17:55 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12, do we have the sources then ? | 17:55 |
| qwerty12 | crashanddie: yes, cx3110x sources are open, umac sources are not | 17:55 |
| crashanddie | cx3110x is the wifi part, right ? | 17:56 |
| * qwerty12 is trying to get PREMPT working: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=214068&postcount=10 | 17:56 | |
| qwerty12 | crashanddie: some of it. umac is part of it too afaik | 17:57 |
| qwerty12 | But you can do a lot with modifying cx3110x. ssvb has overclocked the wifi chip modifying the cx3110x source | 17:57 |
| crashanddie | d'you think it'd be possible to hack it to support packet injection? :-° | 18:00 |
| qwerty12 | No idea :/ | 18:01 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12, http://www.london2600.org.uk/ | 18:01 |
| crashanddie | wait | 18:01 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12, https://s.p10.hostingprod.com/@spyblog.org.uk/ssl/meetings/2008/08/unoffical-midmonth-meeting-third-friday-of-the-month.html | 18:02 |
| crashanddie | djeezus, what an URL | 18:02 |
| qwerty12 | I wish I could come :( | 18:02 |
| crashanddie | You can't ? | 18:03 |
| crashanddie | really can't ? | 18:03 |
| qwerty12 | Yep :( | 18:03 |
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| qwerty12 | allnamesareout is brilliant. | 18:07 |
| crashanddie | btw | 18:07 |
| crashanddie | Google search fails | 18:07 |
| crashanddie | trying to call the HR dude who contacted me a few days back | 18:07 |
| crashanddie | "Welcome to Google, we are trying to find your correspondent, please hold the line" | 18:07 |
| Proteous | yeah, all the google phone search inteligence went to the google411 department | 18:08 |
| crashanddie | google411 ? | 18:08 |
| Proteous | yes | 18:08 |
| Proteous | google it | 18:09 |
| crashanddie | oh, 1-800-GOOG-411 | 18:09 |
| timeless | http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=647125&no_d2=1&cid=24614557 :) | 18:09 |
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| timeless | http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=647125&no_d2=1&cid=24615027 | 18:13 |
| qwerty12 | Any way to see if a kernel is PREEMPT without uname? | 18:14 |
| zap | cat /proc/version ? | 18:15 |
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| qwerty12 | zap: It returns the same thing as uname which is why I didn't suggest that. | 18:15 |
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| kaie | I heard the diable upgrade features a new email client. is it now able to support imap folders? | 18:21 |
| kaie | but I might just try it out myself | 18:22 |
| Jaffa | kaie: modest. Yes, it does IMAP much better. | 18:22 |
| kaie | cool thanks. another question is whether the new client still supports s/mime | 18:22 |
| Jaffa | IME you can't leave it unattended, though - it's pernickity and buggy in lots of little niggly ways. | 18:22 |
| Jaffa | e.g. it's not doing *any* automated send/receive for me. | 18:23 |
| kaie | I'll give it a try thx | 18:23 |
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| brontide | Modest does not do s/mime last I read | 18:27 |
| brontide | haven't tried myself | 18:28 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12, cat .config | grep -i preempt ? | 18:28 |
| qwerty12 | crashanddie: thanks, but I need a way of telling from the device. | 18:28 |
| qwerty12 | ~lart nokia's version magic | 18:28 |
| * infobot acting on orders from an unspecified client drags nokia's version magic into court suing for $200 million | 18:28 | |
| qwerty12 | The kernel should be PREEMPT though, because the modules are bigger. | 18:29 |
| crashanddie | preempt doesn't have anything to do with modules size | 18:30 |
| crashanddie | well, not inherently | 18:31 |
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| qwerty12 | nautilus really sucks | 18:36 |
| summatusmentis | I think modest hates me | 18:38 |
| summatusmentis | or it's my connection/huge gmail inbox | 18:39 |
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| brontide | qwerty12: could the errors be from the umac.ko binary driver? | 18:40 |
| brontide | which is required for cx3110x | 18:40 |
| Jaffa | summatusmentis: I think it hates me too, and my Gmail inbox has 20 items in it. https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3542 is particularly annoying: no auto send/receive. | 18:41 |
| qwerty12 | brontide: probably not as those errors were recieved while I was compiling the module as well | 18:41 |
| qwerty12 | I've given up on that method. I'm currently using a PREEMPT kernel with PREEMPT string removed and modules inside the initfs replaced with ones compiled from the PREEMPT kernel. | 18:42 |
| brontide | egad | 18:43 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12, /proc/sys/kernel/preemption | 18:43 |
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| crashanddie | and /proc/sys/kernel/voluntary-preemption | 18:43 |
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| qwerty12 | crashanddie: thanks. Both of those files aren't there for me. Says it all >.< | 18:44 |
| crashanddie | yeah | 18:44 |
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| qwerty12 | crashanddie: I knew it! Even with a proper compiled PREEMPT kernel (Preempt is in the uname), those proc files still do not exist :) | 18:58 |
| fredyrivera | hello | 18:58 |
| fredyrivera | please any sendme the url from yahoo aerial repositories to maemo-maps | 18:58 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12, ah | 18:59 |
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| crashanddie | qwerty12, sorry then :-° | 18:59 |
| qwerty12 | No problems :) | 18:59 |
| brontide | qwerty12: I suppose it would be too much to expect the preempt kernel to provide faster WiFi down speeds ( better than 750kB/s ) | 19:00 |
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| pupnik | what causes the 750kB/s limit? | 19:00 |
| qwerty12 | brontide: got a link that works with wget that I can test with? | 19:00 |
| qwerty12 | (if its illegal, pm me, I don't care :P) | 19:01 |
| brontide | how fast is your upstream? | 19:01 |
| lardman | fredyrivera: you looked at the thread on itt? | 19:01 |
| qwerty12 | brontide: around ~450 kbps | 19:02 |
| * moontiger lurks | 19:02 | |
| qwerty12 | Oops, do you mean upstream as in download speed? | 19:02 |
| brontide | ya | 19:02 |
| qwerty12 | http://www.speedtest.net/result/309490502.png | 19:03 |
| brontide | that won't help then 6920kbps = 865kB/s | 19:03 |
| brontide | I'm already getting 750kB/s = 6000kbps | 19:04 |
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| fredyrivera | lardman: there is a thread for maemo-mapper? | 19:04 |
| lardman | fredyrivera: yes, one which lists the urls of various repos | 19:06 |
| jott | brontide: qwerty12: just use a local web server or something like iperf to test throughput. | 19:08 |
| fredyrivera | I saw this: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=207241, but the yaerial repositorie is not right | 19:08 |
| crashanddie | lardman, how's the IPC going ? | 19:08 |
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| lardman | crashanddie: been to clinic for an eye test, so not done much, and can't focus very well now :) | 19:10 |
| crashanddie | literally | 19:10 |
| lardman | crashanddie: am sat in dark room with sunglasses on as screen is far too white :) | 19:10 |
| lardman | but have found some methods to perform piping between tasks, so am happy | 19:10 |
| qwerty12 | lardman: in windows? | 19:11 |
| lardman | qwerty12: screen or piping? | 19:11 |
| lardman | crashanddie: just need to finish either tremor or mp3 task, then can test piping directly to the sbc task :) | 19:11 |
| qwerty12 | lardman: screen :). Sorry, I should rephrase myself to make it sound like a proper question :). Are you in windows at the moment? :) | 19:12 |
| qwerty12 | Oh, I guess not :) | 19:12 |
| lardman | qwerty12: yes, but will reboot to Linux in a mo so I can program | 19:12 |
| * lardman had to tweak a paper | 19:12 | |
| qwerty12 | oh. press alt-shift-print screen :D | 19:12 |
| lardman | what does that do? | 19:12 |
| qwerty12 | Sets windows in high contrast mode :). I do it for a joke but it may actually be useful in this case. | 19:13 |
| lardman | ah I see | 19:13 |
| lardman | no, my irises are just dilated so everything is very very bright | 19:13 |
| qwerty12 | ah :( | 19:13 |
| lardman | polarised sunglasses + lcd screens gives infinitely variable brightness anyway :) | 19:14 |
| lardman | + sore neck | 19:14 |
| qwerty12 | :). My linux partition keeps corrupting itself :D. I've ran fsck 5 times this morning :/ | 19:14 |
| lardman | If any hackers out there want to figure out the EAP calls which the various tasks make to output audio on the DSP, that would be useful as another sink method | 19:15 |
| crashanddie | I'm out guys, London 2600, later ! | 19:15 |
| qwerty12 | Heh, see ya crashanddie | 19:16 |
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| skibur | how do I like xlibs using gcc? | 19:17 |
| * qwerty12 doesn't need gcc to like them | 19:17 | |
| skibur | :) | 19:18 |
| skibur | link, sorry | 19:18 |
| skibur | lol | 19:18 |
| skibur | -lx ? | 19:18 |
| skibur | gcc file.c -o file -lx ? | 19:18 |
| skibur | -lxlib ? | 19:18 |
| lardman | -lX | 19:19 |
| lardman | though you may need other X11 related libs too | 19:20 |
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| lardman | perhaps look at some of the existing maemo source code to see what they use? | 19:21 |
| lardman | e.g. the tutorial hello world app, etc. | 19:22 |
| pupnik | lardman: do you have a blog? | 19:22 |
| lardman | pupnik: yes, but I don't use it | 19:22 |
| lardman | :) | 19:22 |
| pupnik | might help to aggregate info for others to follow and extend your work | 19:23 |
| lardman | well I post to the maemo-dev list | 19:23 |
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| lardman | and if people are intersted, all they need do is ask me | 19:23 |
| pupnik | ok you're right | 19:23 |
| pupnik | maemo-dev yields search results | 19:24 |
| * pupnik listening to an amazing interview with Ray McGovern | 19:24 | |
| pupnik | Amazing show today: interviews with Ray McGovern, Pat Buchanan, Joe Lauria and Gordon Prather! http://thestressblog.com/2008/08/15/the-show-242/ Stream playlist: http://kaosradioaustin.org:8959/kaos-64.m3u | 19:24 |
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| lardman | bbiam, need to reboot | 19:29 |
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| lbt | how do I edit the homepage for a garage project? | 19:31 |
| lbt | http://shopper.garage.maemo.org/ | 19:31 |
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| lbt | (It would be very sensible if that page actually told me!!) | 19:31 |
| lbt | OK - another autobuilder one... checking for MAEMOMM... configure: error: Package requirements (hildonmm >= 0.9.6 hildon-fmmm >= 0.9.6) were not met: | 19:33 |
| lbt | I thought the autobuilder pulled in dependencies? | 19:34 |
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| melmoth | lbt create a /web (or /www) directory in your subvrsion repo | 19:35 |
| melmoth | or is it html ? | 19:35 |
| jott | lbt: it should be enough to put stuff in /www in the svn. | 19:35 |
| lbt | OK - I use git back here so I hadn't bothered with svn | 19:35 |
| jott | and autobuilder pulls the dependencies defined in your control file (or those that where automatically generated). | 19:36 |
| lbt | will do | 19:36 |
| jott | you seem to miss libhildonmm (or what ever the package is called) | 19:36 |
| lbt | ok - looking at the logs now | 19:37 |
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| jott | lbt: add libhildonmm-dev to Build-Depends | 19:37 |
| lbt | dpkg-buildpackage and autoconf pull this stuff together | 19:38 |
| lbt | but not all of it apparently... | 19:38 |
| jott | lbt: you have to define it in the build-depends. | 19:38 |
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| lbt | my debian/control file | 19:39 |
| jott | the runtime dependecies are calculated automatically | 19:39 |
| lbt | yep, hmm | 19:39 |
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| lbt | gotcha | 19:39 |
| lbt | I saw the autoconf for Depends | 19:39 |
| jott | if you add "${shlibs:Depends}" to your depends | 19:39 |
| lbt | but it's not Build-Depends is it... | 19:39 |
| jott | build-depends are the packages autobuilder fetches, so make sure all needed packages are declared | 19:39 |
| lbt | configure.ac has PKG_CHECK_MODULES(MAEMOMM, hildonmm >= 0.9.6 hildon-fmmm >= 0.9.6) | 19:39 |
| lbt | it should be bright enough to update Build-Depends from that! | 19:40 |
| jott | blame debian guys :) | 19:40 |
| lbt | !lart Debian guys | 19:40 |
| lbt | ~lart Debian guys | 19:40 |
| * infobot stamps Debian guys on the forehead with the official Troll marker | 19:40 | |
| lbt | :D | 19:40 |
| lbt | ok - I'll try again... thanks | 19:40 |
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| lbt | does PKG_CHECK_MODULES(MAEMOMM, hildonmm >= 0.9.6 translate to Build-Depends: libhildonmm-dev (>= 0.9.6) | 19:43 |
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| jott | hm yes, should be right. | 19:44 |
| lbt | sorry for the nagging but.... having screwed up the control file, do I ++ the version? | 19:45 |
| lbt | or only on a good build | 19:45 |
| jott | yes, always do. | 19:46 |
| lbt | this could get mature really quickly | 19:46 |
| jott | ah you can separate package and application version numbers. | 19:46 |
| jott | like append things as "-1maemo0" "-1maemo1" etc. | 19:47 |
| lbt | in the Changelog | 19:47 |
| jott | or just "-1" "-2" | 19:47 |
| jott | right. | 19:47 |
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| lbt | I tweaked https://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras#Upload_the_package if anyone would like to double check | 19:51 |
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| RST38h | back | 19:54 |
| CptLaptop | front | 19:54 |
| lbt | you see, I resisted that! | 19:54 |
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| * lbt feels smug | 19:54 | |
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| lbt | I'm a little confused about the upload process for free packages... I seem to need to build i386 and armel debs and sign the i386&armel changes | 19:58 |
| lbt | and then upload the src | 19:58 |
| lbt | shouldn't I sign the shopper_0.3.1_source.changes | 19:58 |
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| lardman | Garage down again? | 20:05 |
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| lbt | doesn't seem to be | 20:07 |
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| lbt | I can confirm that the autobuilder FAIL email subsystem is working fine. I'm really banging on it :D | 20:14 |
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| lardman | lbt: just very slow svn, no worries | 20:24 |
| lbt | probably 'cos it's building Shopper | 20:24 |
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| lbt | and succeeding :) | 20:24 |
| lbt | https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/shopper_0.3.2/ | 20:25 |
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| lbt | now where do they go? I want to try and pull them onto my test mmc | 20:25 |
| jott | lbt: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/s/ it should come up here. | 20:26 |
| lbt | so add 'extras-devel' to the appmgr? | 20:27 |
| jott | for example. but keep in mind that extra-devel may contain dangerous packages that break your system. | 20:27 |
| lbt | jott: automatically - or human queue? | 20:27 |
| jott | extra-devel should be automatic :) | 20:28 |
| lbt | OK | 20:28 |
| lbt | I'm doing the chinook build now - and seeing if Shopper works there... | 20:28 |
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| timely | andre__: one more for you to send instream :) | 20:38 |
| moontiger | what is shopper? | 20:42 |
| pope523 | Can someone help me with Canola2? | 20:42 |
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| RST38h | Gentlemen, could someone do ls -l /etc/alternatives/python for me? | 20:50 |
| RST38h | It looks like Python Launcher changes this link and does not restore it when uninstalling | 20:50 |
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| johnx | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 18 Jun 28 03:48 /etc/alternatives/python -> /usr/bin/python2.5 | 20:51 |
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| RST38h | aha, thanks! | 20:51 |
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| luck^ | RST38h, please file a bug at pylauncher's bugzilla.. I'm a bit busy right now but I'll take a look on this. I remember that update-alternatives isn't fully functional on Maemo | 21:01 |
| timely | luck^: is that one of the things responsible for breaking microb? | 21:01 |
| timely | people said one of those py things installed a /scratchbox directory onto the device | 21:02 |
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| luck^ | timely, I don't about this problem :( | 21:03 |
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| RST38h | luck: ok | 21:09 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Actually, um, the unofficial bootloader CAN affect the rest of the system when the initfs is updated, lcuk. | 21:40 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, are you replying to a thread from this mornin gen? | 21:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes | 21:40 |
| lcuk | heh | 21:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stuck in scrollback | 21:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Many you whiners spam a lot. | 21:41 |
| lcuk | yes | 21:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/Many/Man/ | 21:41 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: Man you whiners spam a lot. | 21:41 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Important things like bme and dsme are on initfs | 21:41 |
| lcuk | yer thats ok, not important | 21:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which could lead to Bad Things if they're not updated properly with the rest of the system. | 21:41 |
| lcuk | subject was transitory and not my forte anyway - im sticking with the default system :) | 21:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | So, basically, what you're ACTUALLY after is a regular old package upgrade system for the initfs | 21:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | which would be quite nice, but I don't think it would be stable enough. | 21:42 |
| lcuk | you are just posting to increase your line count | 21:42 |
| lcuk | to catch up with me incase karma counts :P | 21:42 |
| lcuk | but it wont work you know | 21:42 |
| lcuk | cos i can type quick :P | 21:42 |
| RST38h | You are all posting to increase your line counts! | 21:43 |
| * GeneralAntilles rolleyes | 21:44 | |
| AStorm | RST38h: surely ;P | 21:44 |
| RST38h | Karma whores! May Cthulhu suck your collective brains through a huge straw! | 21:45 |
| RST38h | May He feast on your flesh sauteed with peanut butter! | 21:47 |
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| lbt | lcuk: Shopper is in Chinook extras-devel :) | 21:50 |
| lcuk | lbt! nice | 21:50 |
| lcuk | ill take a look once i do this step | 21:50 |
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| AStorm | RST38h: mmmh, peanut butter | 21:50 |
| lbt | just dl'ed onto my test chinook and it worked (no logo though) | 21:50 |
| lbt | s/logo/icon/ | 21:51 |
| infobot | lbt meant: just dl'ed onto my test chinook and it worked (no icon though) | 21:51 |
| lbt | ok bbl | 21:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lbt, the "(always/sometimes/once)" line needs to be DELETED and filled out. . . . | 21:57 |
| * GeneralAntilles is caught up on the IRC backlog, moves on to the next one. | 21:58 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | I like how people getting the MicroB "out of memory" error were claiming completely fresh installs of Diablo and 30-2 | 22:03 |
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| egypt | infobot: what language are you written in? | 22:10 |
| lbt | GeneralAntilles: yeah - I realised that - but bugzilla isn't a wiki and it wasn't worth another post :) | 22:10 |
| infobot | egypt: what are you talking about? | 22:10 |
| egypt | s/// | 22:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, just for future notice. :) | 22:10 |
| egypt | s/s// | 22:10 |
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| * egypt pokes infobot | 22:11 | |
| egypt | perl? | 22:11 |
| egypt | s/perl/python/ | 22:11 |
| infobot | egypt meant: python? | 22:11 |
| lbt | egypt: python judging by the functionality... | 22:11 |
| egypt | s/perl/ruby/ | 22:11 |
| infobot | egypt meant: ruby? | 22:11 |
| lbt | ;) | 22:11 |
| egypt | =) | 22:11 |
| egypt | s/perl/exit/e | 22:12 |
| AStorm | s/perl/telinit S/ | 22:12 |
| egypt | hmm | 22:13 |
| egypt | s/hmm/system('ls')/e | 22:13 |
| RST38h | May you all program in MUMPS until Cthulhu finally eats you with ketchup | 22:13 |
| lbt | I'd appreciate if people could try Shopper (in extras-devel) and let me have comments... (some of which are on my todo anyhow) | 22:14 |
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| mikkov_ | lbt: how does shopper work? It prompts me to open file. What file? ;) | 22:21 |
| lbt | yep - that's one thing :) | 22:21 |
| lbt | press Cancel | 22:21 |
| lbt | it doesn't have a list | 22:22 |
| mikkov_ | ah | 22:22 |
| lbt | and is asking for one | 22:22 |
| mikkov_ | let's see | 22:22 |
| egypt | infobot: are you still alive? | 22:22 |
| lbt | egypt: leave her alone | 22:22 |
| lcuk | are irc channels publically listed by default? | 22:22 |
| egypt | fair enough | 22:23 |
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| egypt | lcuk: yes, but /list on freenode is a bad idea | 22:25 |
| mikkov_ | lbt: adding a note to item crashes Shopper | 22:25 |
| lcuk | egypt, thanks, thats not what i was thinking of - im testing a bot and i dont really want ppl barging in whilst im in a compromising position | 22:25 |
| lbt | do you have an 810? | 22:25 |
| mikkov_ | n800 | 22:25 |
| lbt | did you press <return> | 22:26 |
| mikkov_ | yes | 22:26 |
| lbt | I think it's a bug in the gtkmm library handling the virtual keyboard | 22:26 |
| egypt | lcuk: cool. don't pass regexes directly from the user. =) | 22:26 |
| lbt | I'm working on it | 22:26 |
| lbt | you can just click elsewhere | 22:26 |
| mikkov_ | yeah, not pressing return works | 22:27 |
| lbt | AFAIK that's the only way to crash it at the moment - happy if you find others... | 22:27 |
| lcuk | egypt, do not plan on doing - i want interactive whiteboards with n8x0 and i think an irc chan happens to make a nice host for the kind of data | 22:27 |
| lbt | essentially it wants to lose focus | 22:27 |
| lcuk | and they already have the server capabilities | 22:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk /mode #channel +i | 22:28 |
| mikkov_ | lbt: full screen button doesn't work (you probably knew this) | 22:28 |
| lbt | the icon in bottom left does though | 22:28 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, :) font of knowledge, thanks | 22:28 |
| lbt | bottom right | 22:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, check out the IRC operator's handbook | 22:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | It covers most of the relevant channel modes | 22:28 |
| lcuk | yer i know ;) | 22:28 |
| lcuk | ive jumped in at the deep end again | 22:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | +s secret | 22:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, not hugely positive progress on getting Peter into bugzilla | 22:30 |
| * lcuk wonders how hes gonna get binary images down the wire | 22:30 | |
| lbt | uuencode | 22:31 |
| lbt | worked for nntp | 22:31 |
| lbt | mmm alt. | 22:31 |
| lcuk | im thinking more bandwidth and speed considerations | 22:31 |
| egypt | base64 is smaller than uuencode isn't it? | 22:32 |
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| egypt | base64 increases the size of data by about one third | 22:32 |
| lcuk | the protocol isnt so important yet | 22:32 |
| lcuk | depending upon the source data of course | 22:32 |
| mikkov_ | lbt: another crash, items->Edit Category->quick double tap on category->crash | 22:34 |
| lbt | ooh - that's new - confirmed :) | 22:35 |
| iXce | hmm, may I use the pidgin at http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/pidgin/ on diablo? | 22:35 |
| * GeneralAntilles is just getting through Gmail. | 22:36 | |
| RST38h | es | 22:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 22:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | dneary hatin' on IRC | 22:36 |
| RST38h | yes | 22:36 |
| * GeneralAntilles starts an essay. | 22:36 | |
| RST38h | what did dneary do? | 22:36 |
| iXce | oh yeah, and is it normal that the default diablo mail application badly freezes when using a gmail account? | 22:36 |
| lbt | dissed irc | 22:36 |
| lbt | we'z a bunch of l0s3rs | 22:37 |
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| lbt | ;) | 22:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, sign up for -community already. :P | 22:37 |
| toma | is the mail client in the last firmware open source? | 22:37 |
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| GeneralAntilles | toma, yes. | 22:39 |
| toma | GeneralAntilles: what's the package name? | 22:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/modest/ | 22:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/modest-1.0-2008.23/ | 22:41 |
| toma | thanks | 22:41 |
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| lbt | mikkov_: thanks for the Shopper help - I've noted them down :) | 22:50 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Alright, sent my pro-IRC email off. | 22:57 |
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| mikkov_ | lbt: no problem ;) | 22:59 |
| * GeneralAntilles is wondering whether he should invest any time in working on the wiki style or just let the INdT guys handle it. | 23:00 | |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, thats a really good mail :)( | 23:02 |
| lcuk | -( | 23:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | IRC has been a very significant part of my participation in the Maemo community. | 23:03 |
| lcuk | yes | 23:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Both in getting me involved in the first place and how I'm involved now. | 23:03 |
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| RST38h | GAN: I have enough incoming information in the shape of the war news at the moment | 23:06 |
| RST38h | GAN: Adding Maemo flame wars to the incoming data stream feels somehow excessive | 23:06 |
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| kkrusty | do the n800 and n810 offer the same performance? | 23:14 |
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| RST38h | all right, on to fixing the hildon menus in sr | 23:19 |
| dougt | kkrusty: we haven't noticed any great perf bump | 23:19 |
| dougt | kkrusty: the n810 runs a bit faster iirc, but the n800 also got that bump in a diablo? | 23:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | kkrusty, they're the same inside | 23:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | They're both OMAP2420 | 23:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's no difference between the two given the same software set | 23:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | The N810 would run at 330MHz, too, if you installed OS2007 on it. | 23:20 |
| dougt | so, you upgrade and you go to 400? | 23:21 |
| RST38h | hardware is identical | 23:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^ | 23:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | N810 has the keyboard, transflective screen, GPS, and miniSD | 23:21 |
| RST38h | dougt: upgraded system *can* pump it up to 400 | 23:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | dougt, installing OS2008 on an N800 brings it to 400MHz | 23:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | max | 23:21 |
| RST38h | dougt: it does not mean it *will* do so on permanent basis, but it may, if there is demand | 23:22 |
| dougt | gotcha | 23:22 |
| joshin | Too bad that it won't do the same thing on a 770. :p | 23:23 |
| joshin | Or as high as the 770 has a chance of still working. :) | 23:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | 770 is already past its rated MHz | 23:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Rated for 220MHz, running at 252MHz | 23:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia got speed-sorted OMAP1710's, I suppose. | 23:25 |
| RST38h | can I pleas speed up my E70 to 252MHz? =) | 23:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, idontdosymbian | 23:26 |
| joshin | I know. I'd love to see if I could push the 770 further. | 23:26 |
| RST38h | toobad | 23:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Likely not without breaking things. | 23:26 |
| joshin | Nope but it would give me an excuse for a 810. | 23:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The memory timings seem to be a bit dependent on the core speed on these SoCs. | 23:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | You need an excuse? :P | 23:27 |
| joshin | Not really but I'm still generally enjoying my 770's. (I have 3) | 23:27 |
| *** GeneralAntilles changes topic to "http://maemo.org | Maemo Summit: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008 | logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | http://mxr.maemo.org | https://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/Sprint4 logs http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/" | 23:28 | |
| GeneralAntilles | The OMAP2 devices are like a whole new world. | 23:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | They're lightyears beyond the 770. | 23:28 |
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| joshin | I know. They're much better. I'll probably be ordering a Beagleboard soon and then either a 810 or a Pandora | 23:29 |
| RST38h | memory is timed separately | 23:29 |
| RST38h | a standard arm-based soc will have at least 4 clock settings | 23:29 |
| * GeneralAntilles is so stoked for the Beagle. | 23:29 | |
| RST38h | master, cpu, sdram bus, ahb bus | 23:30 |
| RST38h | ahb is for flash and peripherals, so it is of less importance | 23:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Holy hell, they're AVAILABLE?! | 23:30 |
| * GeneralAntilles buy-buy-buys | 23:30 | |
| joshin | Yeah, they've been shipping for a few weeks or so. | 23:30 |
| * GeneralAntilles wonders how he missed that. | 23:31 | |
| pupnik | anybody here have a beagleboard yet? | 23:31 |
| * pupnik saw the footage of one running OS2007 | 23:32 | |
| pupnik | or 2008, i forgot | 23:32 |
| kkrusty | GeneralAntilles: sorry I just went away for a while. I actually gave away my N800. Now Im either going to buy a N810 or wait for something new to come up | 23:32 |
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| joshin | I can't wait to see what sort of ideas people come up with to expand one. | 23:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | They're advertising OpenGL support | 23:35 |
| joshin | I was thinking more of lots of storage and fast networking. | 23:36 |
| joshin | I need to read up on the expansion bus. | 23:36 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Well, it's on backorder | 23:38 |
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| GeneralAntilles | joshin, sorry, the OpenGL statement was unrelated to your statement | 23:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | I merely brought it up because the PowerVR drivers were somewhat in question. | 23:39 |
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| joshin | Yup. We're all drooling over it together. ;) | 23:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Let's hope they get some in soon. | 23:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | I dunno quite what I'm going to do with mine yet. | 23:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | But damn is that a hot piece of hardware | 23:41 |
| zap | how the beagleboard guys solved the problem with the 3D accelerator> | 23:41 |
| zap | ? | 23:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | zap, real drivers. . . . | 23:42 |
| zap | real drivers - closed source binary blob? | 23:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Presumably. | 23:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's pretty much no way Imagination Tech is opening their drivers. | 23:43 |
| pupnik | np Fila Brazillia - Slow Light (genius!) | 23:43 |
| * joshin goes to join #beagle on this here freenode | 23:43 | |
| GeneralAntilles | But, uh, #beagle for some real info | 23:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 23:44 |
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| lbt | night all | 23:49 |
| n800n | airshow ;/ | 23:49 |
| n800n | loud as hell | 23:49 |
| pupnik | if there's an accident, don't forget to say 'oh, the humanity!' | 23:51 |
| n800n | cool | 23:51 |
| n800n | f22 s are pretty amazing | 23:53 |
| n800n | just saw one by accident | 23:53 |
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| n800n | looked like it was stalling 100 ft above the lake | 23:55 |
| n800n | then took off straight up | 23:55 |
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| n800n | i'm sure the dude's swallowed a bit of his own brain | 23:56 |
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| n800n | there was a petition last year to move it elsewhere and it worked so well now it's 3 days instead of 2 | 23:58 |
| * pupnik prepares his fembot army | 23:59 | |
| pupnik | oops, ignore that | 23:59 |
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