IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2008-08-08

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zapchelli: we are kind of beta-testers for the autobuilder, so we must be prepared for mysterious things to happen :)00:00
lcuki did all i could, but unfortunately we had to amputate the arm.00:01
zapthe ARM?00:01
lcukmy son was devistated :(00:02
zapoh my!00:03
lcukat least this time its not terminal.  the last one lost his head00:03
pupnikit's a toy jott00:03
* lcuk wishes he had kept spares00:03
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zapwell please use smiles when you're kidding, with my poor English its not always easy to understand that00:04
lcuk:D ill smile when im telling him his favorie toy is armless next time :P00:05
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lcukthough i agree with you00:05
RST38hlcuk: you should have kept the headless one for spares00:06
zapwell my daughter got hit by a jeep about a month ago, so I'm a bit sensible to these things now00:06
RST38hzap: :(00:07
lcuki know that, but he didnt have a donor card00:07
lcuk:( zap omg00:07
zapshe's okay00:07
RST38hlcuk: you could always declare him to be at the field of battle00:07
lcuki had mentioned to jott about it being buzz just up there ^^00:07
RST38hzap: where?00:08
zapRST38h: in the courtyard00:08
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RST38hscary shit =(00:09
lcukzap i would hate to go through that00:09
lcukwas she injured?00:09
zapa bit, but now she already forgot about it00:10
hrwqgil is on holidays from tomorrow - I hope that he will read my mail before leaving00:10
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lcukhrw, he reads lots of stuff - im constantly amazed by how many pies he is involved in00:11
lcukits like he types with 2 computers :D00:11
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chellizap: yes, of course but i still hope that issue this will be resolved soon, it is not very motivating when the infrastructure breaks over and over again :)00:12
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zapchelli: just get a needle and puncture X-Fade until everything's fine :)00:13
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chellizap: yes, he already got a few messages in a query yesterday and today, he promised to look at it as soon as re solved your problem ;-)00:15
zaphmm, 8 UNKNOWNs in a row00:21
zapand all for chinook00:21
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mikkov_disk is full?00:24
mikkov_13 UNKNOWNs in a row00:25
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zapthe logs look funny :)00:26
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mikkov_last FAILED had No space left on device00:28
mikkov_or 2 last FAILED ones00:28
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chellimikkov_: yes, disk full really could explain the problem, i even know who used most of the space, hint: qt4-x11 takes about 6GB of space while building, afaik ;-)00:33
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jott12gb as it seems as it builds x86 and armel :)00:33
chellijott: ok, you are right, the last time it seems it was sucessful with building for armel, but got disk ful while unpacking the sources for the x86 build ;-)00:34
lcukno chance of me building it in a reasonable time on the 810 then00:35
jotthopefully nokia will be so generous and provide a machine with a bit more hdd space at one point in time :)00:36
lbtcan't you plug external usb drives into the tablets?00:37
lcuki just need mmc space really, but 6gb is a massive build00:37
jotti think you also need a bit more of ram :)00:38
jottbut 6gb shouldn't be a problem.00:38
lcukMOAR everything, but no rotational devices tyvm00:38
lcukits just a problem of it being a metric shitload of code00:38
chellilcuk: i guess when the build of qt4-x11 on the n810 is ready,you will be able to buy the n1000 in stores ;-)00:38
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lcukwhen things get that big, it might be better to just upload and let the autobuilder do it for me ;)00:40
lcukbut 6gb is massive by any codebase standards00:40
jottwell documentation and debug symbols take a large part of it00:41
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lcukahhh, whats the binary footprint of all this?00:42
chelliwell, as long as the resulting packages are installable on the internal flash of the n8x0 without removing all other apps first, i have no problem with it :)00:42
chellilcuk: i have no idea00:43
lcukjott, should there be debug symbols in the standard build?00:43
jottneeded packages are around 20mb00:43
jottlcuk: no they are in an extra package00:43
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lcukahhh, so do not have to build the entire thing00:44
jottuh? as enduser / application developer you install the packages and maybe also the -dev packages.00:44
lcukme as minimalist hacker.  wanting to see what the core graphical needs but not be bogged down with 10 layers back00:45
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lbtsaw this on git recently :
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jott"As Arthur C. Clarke observed, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." hehe00:51
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crashanddieWouldn't have happened if he'd bought an NIT instead of an iPhone01:09
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jottcrashanddie: apparently 3 other people bought this app :)01:12
crashanddiejott, cool, means there's $3k in my bank account01:13
* jott should also write some iphone apps :P01:13
crashanddiewell, 401:13
jott-30% ;P01:13
MangoFusioncrashanddie: no, instead it would have been an app you needed to spend 3 days to get working ;)01:13
mikkov_yes, xmoto01:13
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crashanddieStanley Cube Bricked's new film ! GAN8001: The Space Odyssey, featuring lcuk's liqbase with hidden HAL features... "Hello Michael, would you like me to crash today" In theatres August 15th !01:16
crashanddie[/random crap]01:17
* jott starts to think crashanddie is a bot :P01:17
crashanddieWe'll see about that in Berlin01:18
jottattack of the cybercrashanddies01:18
crashanddieI'll cough on you... "attack of the cyberflem"01:18
crashanddie(that's just gross xD)01:19
crashanddieI have the feeling one of my flatmates just jumped out of the window01:19
crashanddiethere was this sound on the roof, like trying to open the window vigorously, and then a loud/hard bang outside, coming from beneath01:22
crashanddieand now it's very quiet01:22
crashanddieand I don't dare yelling at him to see if he'll answer, nor going downstairs if there's a body01:23
jottbetter lookout.01:23
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lcuktake a brolly.  might be raining heavily01:25
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crashanddiewell, I was thinking about what I was going to do (there really isn't a single sound)01:26
crashanddieand I rolled a fag01:26
crashanddieguess I decided without knowing it, bbl01:26
jottbrolly, hehe learn a colloquial word every day with lcuk ;)01:26
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moontigerhey khertan :)01:34
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crashanddiegood news, there's no body01:35
crashanddiebad news, I'm a wussy01:35
jottbecause you tried to disposed the body? :P01:37
jottand failed :>01:37
crashanddiebecause my heart was racing when I went in the garden, looking for it, and Andy (our hedgehog) scared the shit out of me when making noise in the bushes01:38
* moontiger smiles01:38
crashanddieyeah, well I petitioned to call him Sonic, but the others failed to see the positive side of such a name01:39
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* moontiger laughs01:39
moontigercool name for a hedgehog01:39
jotthehe sonic comes as a natrual choice for a hedgehog name :)01:40
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crashanddiewell, apart from the fleas, those things are cuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuute:
moontigeri used to have pet rats01:42
moontigeri loved them01:42
crashanddieyeah, I've had rats, too01:42
moontigercant imagine hedgehogs sleeping in bed with me tho01:43
Mace`have to fly to LA tomorrow.. i can't stand airports01:47
crashanddieflying is fun01:48
crashanddieI love to make fun with the security guards01:49
crashanddiewell... Usually, it's just making fun of them, but sometimes they'll hop on the joyride01:49
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pupniki'd like a dpad that could play sonic the hedgehog02:03
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Mace`yeah.. the dpad on the n800 sucks :)02:09
Mace`but then again it really wasn't intended as a gaming dpad02:09
Mace`although i'm sure they could have done something to make it a little more game friendly02:09
pupniki'm not sure i'd know what would serve both purposes best02:09
* Mace` is trying to build qt/kde02:09
pupnikif it looks like a gamepad, it's also going to hurt the image of the device imo02:09
pupnikbut i'd really like 8-way, low resistance steering02:10
Mace`heh.... well.. it's not its intended purpose02:10
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Mace`kernel/qt_x11_p.h:69:22: X11/Xlib.h: No such file or directory02:11
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Mace`wow are you kidding me? :)02:11
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jottpupnik: we should really find someone making something like this iphone gamepad.02:12
Mace`do you have to build x11 for scratchbox or something?02:12
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jottMace`: ... why are you wasting your time?! :(02:12
Mace`learning is not a waste of time even in failure :)02:13
jottif you tried to rebuild distributors packages it should tell you to fetch the needed -dev packages...02:13
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jott(like libx11-dev)02:14
moontigerdoes the diablo have the libcurl libs installed?02:14
Mace`could you give me something small that i can try out in order to see what you are talking about jott?02:15
moontigerwow that was bad ... i can speak english really :/02:15
jottmoontiger: yes. "libcurl3" should be there.02:15
moontigerawesome thanks02:16
jottMace`:, packages.ubuntu.com02:16
Mace`that's what i'm looking at now02:16
jottwhich qt package did you fetch?02:16
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jottthat's just a meta package ...02:19
Mace`i think the problem is that i don't really know what a dev pkg would look like :)02:20
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jottMace`: that's why you should read something like the debian new maintainers guide02:21
crashanddieMace`, get the source files02:21
crashanddieMace`, then just dpkg-source -x file.dsc; cd dir; dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -B02:21
crashanddieMace`, you'll get your -dev package02:22
Mace`see.. that's what i don't get.. my scratchbox install doesn't have dpkg-source on it02:22
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jottor just dget -x http://foo/bla.dsc02:22
crashanddiedget ? or wget ?02:23
crashanddieMace`, maybe you need to install some packages ?02:23
jottlike dput02:23
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crashanddieoh, ok02:23
Mace`yeah.. i'm sure i do .. just have to figure out where to start doing that :)02:23
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jottthis will combine the "download and dpkg-source -x" step :)02:23
Mace`like.. starting with dpkg would help :)02:24
crashanddieMace`, dpkg-dev ?02:24
jotthm dget is even in my default sbox install.02:25
crashanddieoh but look... $ apt-file search dpkg-source02:25
crashanddiedpkg-dev: /usr/bin/dpkg-source02:25
jottit's in "devscripts" otherwise.02:26
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Mace`ah.. i figured it out.. i missed a step02:31
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* pupnik learns more about the aliens02:40
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bef0rdaliens and rpms02:45
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pupnikHAHAHA "crop circles are to tune up the planet, and stabilizing the planet and prevent it from tipping on its axis" - George Green02:50
Mace`hm.. tried to build dpkg from src and it can't find curses.h but i just installed ncurses02:53
bef0rdncurses-dev ?02:55
bef0rdmost of header files are on -dev packages02:55
jottMace`: please! read some very basic manuals.02:57
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moontigerso im writing a home screen applet to read from a google calendar...02:59
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moontigerand it has to be in C cos the python bindings aren't written yet02:59
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moontigerso i was wondering if anybody knows of any c libs for the gdata stuff or do i have to write my own03:00
bef0rdI believe Khertan wrote home applets on python, did not he?03:00
moontigerhe did and i have spoken to him but there is no way to use the settings menu stuff for the home screen03:00
moontigeras the python bindings arent there yet (if ever)03:00
bef0rdah I see.03:00
moontigerand his talks to mcalendar03:00
moontigeri want something to just talk to my calendar and show up to a month of events03:01
moontigermy google calendar that is03:01
moontigeri have the code working on my desktop mostly03:01
moontigerso its a porting thing03:01
moontigeri was using pythin too until i discovered that problem03:01
moontigerand of course i can let khertan use the home screen applet for mcalendar too if he wants to03:02
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moontigeranyways ... the question was about the gdata libs for C03:03
moontigerthere are Objective C libs but they are for OSX03:03
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jottmoontiger: not sure how well it works..03:07
jott(just google foo :)03:08
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moontigerjott ... damn!! you had me happy there for a minute but they didnt release any files yet so there is no actual lib :(03:09
moontigerbut thanks for trying03:09
moontigeri'll just use libcurl and grunge thru the xml stuff03:10
jottsvn contains stuff03:10
jottmight be worth a try atleast :)03:10
[yzf600]can os2007 run on a nokia 770?03:10
jott(like running the test)03:10
jott[yzf600]: there is a os2007he03:10
[yzf600]anyone have experience running it?03:12
moontigeri might give it a shot but ive been looking thru the docs and the gdata stuff is just xml http posts back and forth ... in javascript it would be trivial03:12
moontigerbut i can write a small lib using libcurl and xml parsing03:12
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moontigerdo you know what xml libs are on os2008 by default?03:13
Mace`ok... figured out a few things i did wrong already :) but it's cool... i'm reading the maint guide now jott .. i'll work on it after i'm done reading it.. tnx for the help03:13
jottmoontiger: i think libxml2 and expat should be installed03:14
jottMace`: you are welcome. just try to get some context for your understanding and ask here again. someone will most likely know an answer.03:15
moontigerok coolio ... so im going to write the gdata stuff as a separate little lib that can grow in future and can be used by other people03:16
moontigerits just xml rpc stuff03:16
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jottmoontiger: why not try to contribute to the google code framewrok :)03:17
jott(not having seen it, but trying to encourage collaboration :)03:18
moontigeri will when i have something to submit ... i want to get it working first then i can submit and let it get developed more maybe03:18
moontigerthnx for the help ... libcurl and libxml2 is all i need03:18
moontigeroff to see batman now ... bbl03:20
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jotthave fun.03:20
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[yzf600]I'm trying out os2008 he for 77003:44
[yzf600]I hope this works03:44
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Mace`west wing cracks me up03:47
[yzf600]so do regular os2008 packages install on os2008he?03:47
[yzf600]I need to install openssh & xterm, but need to know what repository to add03:47
jottxterm should be preinstalled with os2008 :)03:49
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smackpotato2hacker addition?03:50
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Mace`know what.. i always wondered03:55
Mace`why did they get rid of the tabs in os2008? :)03:55
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meuserjsome friends and I are in a discussion.. how do you pronounce maemo?04:06
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[yzf600]for me04:19
[yzf600]or rather may-mo04:19
[yzf600]but I'm probably wrong04:19
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trev0ris there a mail program that can connect to hotmail04:24
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mranostayanyone here ever built maemo with OE?04:28
meuserjI've always pronounced it may-mo as well, but one of my friends who just bought a n810 was pronouncing it mee-mo.. and another friend (who also just bought one) corrected her and pronounced it mah-mo.. I was just wondering what the consensus was04:29
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aspectaptitude install scratchbox-devkit-maemo3 ; <-- correct? ;-)04:33
mranostayaspect: Openembedded build system04:35
aspectI know what it is, just hoping that's the correct package (and only one?) I need to install on debian04:36
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Mace`anybody here know what would be considered a goaddy "class 2" cert?05:51
Mace`is that just a deluxe cert from goaddy?05:52
rm_youMace`: well, in os2007 xterm was via maemo-hackers, so it was very nice. the default os2008 xterm is not the same version, but if you install the maemo-hackers xterm in os2008, it has tabs again, as well as improving ctrl-function support (and other bits)06:01
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GAN800Diablo xterm has tabs.06:03
GAN800Actually, the Diablo xterm is pretty much up to the maemo-hackers one as far as thingszgo.06:04
rm_youdoes it? eh06:04
rm_youoh, GAN, you seen latest download numbers? O_o06:04
rm_youit doubled a couple more times06:04
rm_you24k almost o_O06:05
infobotGAN800 meant: Yeesh06:05
rm_youi almost had a heart attack, lol06:05
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rm_youif we release an update we would jump to #1 prolly, lol06:08
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rm_youso, whenever we do the control panel thing06:08
GeneralAntillesI'm ready for that.06:09
rm_youwe need more mockups06:09
GeneralAntillesI get back to my rig end of this month06:10
rm_youneed to decide what to remove from the default control panels06:10
GeneralAntillesI can power some out then.06:10
rm_youand what to move/add06:10
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GeneralAntillesrm_you, I think my mockup for the schedule is "good enough" if you want to start work on that.06:15
GeneralAntillesWhich begins with figuring out alarmd, I suppose.06:15
GeneralAntillesI should probably go to bed06:16
GeneralAntillesBeen on airplanes all day long06:16
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* GeneralAntilles lights the fuse on the next "please search/u guyz r assholes" thread.06:37
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* GeneralAntilles facepalms.
GeneralAntillesI'm gonna have to block that site at the firewall before I lose my mind.07:26
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RST38hmoo all07:36
RST38hGA: ITT was not enough?07:36
GeneralAntillesRST38h, I don't even want to talk about it.07:37
GeneralAntillesI'm so bored with that BS.07:37
GeneralAntilleskrisse can have fun answering all the same questions a hundred million times.07:37
GeneralAntillesFine by me.07:37
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RST38hHeh, Ohio is dying out08:38
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Khertan_n810Hi !09:13
qwerty12Hi Khertan_n81009:14
Khertan_n810there is no cron on the tablet ?09:14
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GAN800qwerty12, tell me reading tabletscene doesn't make you want to kill yourself.09:15
GAN800Khertan, where have you been for the last two years? :P09:15
Khertan_n810you read tabletscene ?09:15
GAN800or grab a cron package from somewhere.09:15
qwerty12GAN800, It does. Krisse pisses me off too. Just because he's scared of the command line, shouldn't mean it's a taboo subject.09:15
GAN800A little this evening09:15
Khertan_n810gan > hum ...09:15
GAN800Made me throw up a little in my mouth09:16
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GAN800Eh, krisse's alright. He's good at what he does and is pleasant to talk to.09:16
GAN800But he has some funny ideas about newbie stuff.09:17
qwerty12I honestly like him, a good person, just the command line stuff gets to me.09:17
qwerty12Although that siralien guy is totally deluded. Read his intro...09:18
Mikhowho's krisse?09:18
GAN800qwerty12, I hit the 'MAC' (shudder) topic and about died.09:18
Khertan_n810is this the one wich polst on tabletshol ?09:18
GAN800Couldn't get any farther.09:18
GAN800Yes, Khertan09:19
qwerty12To be honest, there's nothing appealing about tabletscene imho09:19
GAN800About the best newb-friendly explainer I've ever encountered.09:19
Khertan_n810i doesn t accept any comment on tabletschool09:19
GAN800He does09:19
GAN800He just moderates them09:19
Khertan_n810hum ...09:19
GAN800and has a bit of a backlog09:19
GAN800Hit him up with a pm on itT if you need to contect him about an article.09:20
GAN800He's really fast and responsive about making ammendments and such09:20
Khertan_n810i thinking of making an autosync for mcalendar ... does should i use alarmd or an init script to network ?09:20
qwerty12I like tabletschool, I've been on there a few times, you can tell he really puts effort and time into the articles with the youtube video complementing them and such.09:21
qwerty12Khertan_n810, I'd say alarmd, but be careful how you approach it. I know fiferboy has had problems with alarmd.09:21
GAN800Look at how Modest does it, maybe?09:22
Khertan_n810gan > it s a joke ?09:22
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Mace`wow.. i really hate gentoo now09:22
qwerty12Hmm, alarmd isn't in the build depends for modest09:23
GAN800Khertan, no, seems like automated email checking is fairly similar09:24
Khertan_n810hum maybe should i make a more osso approach09:25
Khertan_n810by making a permanent daemon09:25
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qwerty12I did a quick grep in modest for alarm:
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Khertan_n810i m joking of course09:27
qwerty12I know, but if you want to use alarmd...09:27
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moontigerhey khertan :)09:28
Khertan_n810hi moontiger09:29
moontigerseems like the python-hildondesktop bindings aren't being written any time soon09:29
moontigerso i was thinking about some work arounds for mcalendar09:29
Khertan_n810? hildondesktop ?09:30
qwerty12python-hildondesktop bindings are already in diablo extras09:30
Khertan_n810what the problem with the binding ?09:30
moontigerhe reason you can't do settings menu from python desktop applets is the bindings to the underlying c libs arent there yet09:30
moontigeri was reading today that they arent usable yet09:31
qwerty12Source is also available :
qwerty12They should be09:31
* moontiger goes off to read more ... brb09:31
moontigerwow ok ... well that sorts that out then ... thats where the settings menu stuff is to be found i believe09:32
moontigerheh so i'll go find that stuff out then :)09:33
moontigerbut anyways..........09:33
moontigeri was thinking that since homecalendar is useless without mcalendar...09:34
Khertan_n810yes setting binding seems not here09:34
moontigerwhy not put settings for homecalendar in mcalendar settings stuff?09:34
Khertan_n810homecalender work well :)09:34
moontigeryes it does ... but it is totally dependent on mcalendar no?09:34
Khertan_n810hum yes why not09:34
Khertan_n810yes it depends on mcalendar09:35
moontigerplease forgive me ... i was not saying homecalendar is useless ... i meant it totally depends on mcalendar09:35
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Khertan_n810i ve understand :)09:35
moontigerso putting homecalendar settings in mcalendar would make sense and solve the problem for now at least no?09:35
Khertan_n810yes ... but i ll prefer having seperate ui for setting09:37
moontigerreally? hmmmmm ok09:37
Khertan_n810but it s not a problem09:37
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Khertan_n810alarmd_internal_error ... gurk !09:39
* moontiger is reading...09:39
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Khertan_n810ouch it could be strike at airfrance in september !09:46
qwerty12Is SFTP preferred over scp?09:47
Khertan_n810why does i ve booking on this stupid french compagny09:47
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Khertan_n810qwerty12 > hum ... i personnaly prefer scp :)09:50
Khertan_n810depend what you want to do09:50
XTLiUnless by sftp you somehow mean ftp with ssl09:51
qwerty12Thanks, I'm not bothered about interface and commands, I'm using winscp, it just looks like that scp isn't as good because winscp says allow scp fallback when choosing to connect using sftp :/09:51
Maceri never saw superman returns09:52
* Macer hopes it doesn't suck09:52
Stskeepsit was .. okay, the ending was a bit weak :P09:52
XTLiI thinkn that means it can't keep the connection open with "scp"09:52
XTLiI expected SR to be worse09:53
Macerthat damn lex luthor09:53
XTLiA real rascal09:54
Stskeepsi kinda liked the animation, superman: doomsday,
Stskeepsit felt better with the magazines i read as a youngin' :P09:54
Macerkevin spacey is lex luthor? that's awesome!09:54
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Khertan_n810hi tigert09:59
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aquatixmorning all10:04
Khertan_n810hi trickie and aquatix10:04
aquatixKhertan_n810: latest mcalendar works a lot better :)10:06
aquatixwhole-day still has time stamps though10:06
Khertan_n810a new version 0.3.3 is in autobuilder queue at this time :)10:06
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aquatixany interesting changes?10:07
Khertan_n810but timestamp not fixed yet10:07
aquatixok, no hurry :)10:07
Khertan_n810sync error ... and more slow sync fix10:07
Khertan_n810to avoid 104 error 'reset by peer'10:07
aquatixsounds good :)10:08
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Khertan_n810i still get some 400 error10:09
Khertan_n810don t know why10:09
Khertan_n810not everytimes10:10
Khertan_n810maybe error due to 3g connection10:11
Khertan_n810but not sure10:12
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Macerone of the dogs ate the other one10:13
Macerthat's rough10:13
Macerin superman returns10:14
Khertan_n810the film is so interesting that you talk on irc ?10:15
XTLiThat's the world out there10:15
trickie|workKhertan: film was correct also10:16
XTLiThere's nothing that can't be improved by including irc10:16
Khertan_n810never see it ...10:17
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hrwtime to finally book some hotel for summit10:42
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Khertanhrw > where do you book ?10:46
hrwKhertan: not decided yet10:46
hrwI need one night Friday/Saturday only10:46
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Khertanhrw > there is generator hotel which is 'cheap'10:47
Khertanhostel :)10:48
Khertani always forgot the 's'10:48
hrwI am on that site10:49
* Khertan is thinking to make is own maemo theme10:50
moontigerhey khertan ... when im testing stuff in the sbox thingy how come i cant get a net connection?10:51
hrw56 eur for single.. quite nice10:51
trickie|workmoontiger: is it no connection or no dns?10:53
moontigername resolution10:53
trickie|workIIRC you need to set a dns server in /etc/resolv.conf10:53
moontigerin the sbox env?10:54
moontigercool thnx :)10:54
trickie|workbut its been a while since i used sbox... but try it out10:54
XTLiUsing a proxy Just Worked for me10:54
Khertanmoontiger > can you ping a url and can you ping an ip ?10:56
moontigerthat fixed it ... set up a nameserver and now my lil thingy is talking to google calendar from sbox :)10:56
XTLiAh, that. Neat :)10:57
moontigeryou dont use sbox either trickie?10:57
KhertanFix the /etc/resolv.conf file inside scratchbox.10:57
moontigerthnx khertan ... got it :)10:57
moontigerto make a homescreen applet actually show up i have to package it and all that right?10:58
Khertanyou ll now see how it s funny to get connection reset by peer error in gdata ;)10:58
Khertanmoontiger > show up ? in application manager ?10:58
Khertanor in the list ?10:59
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moontigerkhertan ... on the desktop ... so i guess in the list10:59
trickie|workmoontiger: nope10:59
trickie|worki don't really do much dev for maemo... mainly mamona10:59
trickie|workusing OE11:00
moontigerahhhh ive seen about mamona ... thats an alternate os for the n8x0 yes?11:00
trickie|workversion 0.2 is beta now...11:00
moontigerlooks way cool ... will it produce something usable at some point?11:01
trickie|workyes, i use it on my n800 now11:01
moontigerreally? wow cool11:01
Khertanmoontiger > you need to add a .desktop in /usr/share/hildon-home/11:01
trickie|work0.2 should have - virtual keyboard, midori and firefox and network manager, full emulation with qemu for the sdk11:01
Khertantake a look at one i ve made for my home applet11:02
trickie|workand a few other bits and pieces11:02
moontigerwill do thnx :)11:02
trickie|workmoontiger: if you are interested, or #mamona11:02
moontigertrickie ... how does one install it?11:02
trickie|workwell once the beta images are ready you can flash a rootfs, or they are even going to create FIASCO images11:03
Khertantrickie > what is the differences between mamona and maemo ?11:03
trickie|worki just install to sdcard and dual boot with maemo11:03
trickie|workKhertan: well mamona uses OE as a build system, and the desktop env is based on enlightenment/efl11:03
trickie|worka way more up to date toolchain11:04
trickie|workand hopefully, bit by bit a replacement for some of the non-free bits of maemo11:04
moontigeryah that would be nice11:04
qwerty12trickie|work, nice, hit them where it hurts, in their non-free stuff!11:05
trickie|workhe he11:05
moontigeri bookmarked it thnx ... im cramming a bunch of new dev stuff into my head so i need a little while before i get more to digest11:05
trickie|workmoontiger: for sure...11:05
trickie|worki know how that feels :)11:05
Khertanhum ... i ll take a look ...11:06
moontigerive been doing a lot of ph web stuff lately and before that c/c++ on 'doze11:06
moontigerneed to realign to gtk / python11:06
trickie|workor elf/python :)11:06
trickie|workefl/python sorry11:06
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moontigerhmmmmmm efl is the enlightenment thingy right?11:07
trickie|workyep, core libs that e is built with11:07
trickie|workquite a bit of stuff actually11:07
trickie|workbut there are python bindings for some of them also11:07
trickie|workquyite easy to play with11:07
moontigergoing back to straight C for maemo work is a bit of a culture shock i must say11:07
moontigerim liking python a lot11:08
Khertanquyite ?11:09
Khertanah ...11:10
hrwsomeone should kick asses of google maps webteam11:10
Khertani think it was a name of a lib11:10
Khertanhrw > lol ...11:10
Khertanpersonnaly i don't like using efl to make ui ... specially edje11:11
Khertanit s a real pain to make something11:11
trickie|workKhertan: he he, nah im just still waking up :)11:11
moontigerkhertan ... im wondering if the timeouts are in the client libs or on the actual servers for the gdata stuff?11:11
Khertanmoontiger > don't know ...11:11
moontigerfor gdata stuff in C im having to write a lib to do the comms using curl and xml211:12
moontigerso i guess i'll find out11:12
Khertanwith a max_result = 3 i sometimes get reset by peer error on my 3G connection11:12
hrwKhertan: since last update it became very sluggish and they removed some features11:12
moontigerthats really quite sad11:12
Khertanhrw > on efl or gdata ?11:13
Khertanmoontiger > but no problem with an adsl connection11:13
Khertanhrw > and with edje it s really hard to design a gui, as no real editor exist11:14
moontigerhmmmmm might well be the 3g ... were you moving or stationary?11:14
Khertansame results when stationary11:14
moontigerwhat fone do you have?11:14
Khertanan 663011:15
moontigerso app -> bluetooth -> 3g -> google11:15
moontigerhave u tried it using edge instead of 3g?11:16
Khertanyep ... same thing11:17
hrwKhertan: gmaps11:17
moontigeri know that when my n810 could talk via my phone i didnt get many drop-outs at all11:18
moontigerwhich reminds me ... i wish they would HURRY UP and fix the bluetooth PAN thingy11:18
wizaumm, is development of canola and/or carman stopped?11:19
wizanothing new in months...11:19
qwerty12Technically, Bluetooth PAN is fine. It's Nokia's fault icd2 isn't.11:19
Khertanhrw > i always laught when i see that on the map of my town there isn't the house of my neightboor ... 7 year's old11:19
moontigeryah the icd2 thingy11:20
moontiger*really* annoying11:20
Khertanhum ... with a max_result=2 this work11:20
trickie|workwiza: i don't think it has stopped... maybe ask in #canola11:21
moontigerhmmm... when i get icd2 updated i must try my (cr)app and see what happens11:21
wizatrickie|work: no hurry yet, when I finally get new stereo and amps etc to my car I'm planning to use canola as my media player11:22
trickie|workwiza: cool11:22
wizagood thing being that I can hear GPS over the music11:22
* aquatix uses the default mediaplayer in his car :)11:22
aquatixdefault maemo one11:22
aquatixwiza: you have wayfinder?11:23
moontigeri have wayfinder11:23
wizaI'd hate to miss speed camera because I'm listening to music too loud11:23
wizaaquatix: yep11:23
wizamotorcycle does not have plate in front so I really have trouble remembering to slow down in the fall11:24
aquatixhere in the netherlands most speed cams take the picture from behind11:24
Khertanand you place your feet on the back plate ?11:24
wizasomeone has suggested that following speed limits would be a solution too11:24
aquatixwiza: nah, that's no fun ;)11:24
wizano picture from behind in finland11:25
aquatixah, good to know :)11:25
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wizaand most of the cameras don't even notice motorcycle, not 'nuff metal11:25
* aquatix is thinking about getting his motorcycle license11:25
Khertanhum ... interesting ... so audi r8 can t be caught too11:26
wizabut since I'm usually going from 20 to 30 over limit in highways, not noticing cameras would be very expensive11:26
aquatixKhertan: lol11:26
Khertancarbon ... :)11:26
wizaand I would loose my license too, which would suck11:26
wizaKhertan: well there is the engine...11:26
Khertanyes but under the carbon ...11:26
wizaKhertan: bike is only 200 kg so11:26
wizaKhertan: and magnets care about the carbon? :D11:27
Mace`wow.. gentoo has 133 pkgs to rebuild because i updated python11:28
Khertanhum 1500 kg for the r8 :)11:28
aquatixKhertan: that's 600 kg more than my surely photographable opel astra ;)11:29
Khertanyes and 600 more that my peogeot 30611:29
aquatixyeah, same class of car11:29
Khertanhum no 50011:29
hrwsomeone has a problem with GarnetVM? I cant install/run anything from it11:29
Khertanaquatix > i don't think ... mine is special series :)11:29
aquatixwell, was talking about the size :)11:30
aquatixKhertan: special edition or something?11:30
Khertanah yes size is the same ...11:31
aquatix306 is newer than my almost 11 year old astra though ;)11:31
Khertanthe old astra was really robust cars ... my brother use it up to 250 000km before he burn all the electronic11:32
aquatixyeah, i'm happy with it11:32
Khertanusing it always in red zone ...11:32
Khertanspecially when engine is cold11:33
* aquatix has 90k km to go then ;)11:33
* qwerty12 has no idea why Opel cars are marketed as Vauxhall cars11:34
aquatixit's neat how the thing still does 16km to the liter of gas11:34
Khertanmy 306 have 167 ch :)11:34
aquatixqwerty12: something to do with it being german11:34
aquatixor something :)11:34
Khertanqwerty12 > Vauxhall ?11:34
qwerty12aquatix,  Ah right :)11:34
aquatixKhertan: opel cars are sold as Vauxhall in the UK11:34
qwerty12Khertan, UK name for Opel11:34
inzKhertan, only 250 000 km, that's still brand new11:34
aquatixinz: ;)11:34
Khertaninz > not really when users is still in 4th at 130km/h11:35
Khertani ve forgotten ... not maintain was made since he have it ... so since 100000km11:36
moontigerkhertan ... got the applet showing up thnx ... i presume the .deb installs the files in the right place when its released11:36
Khertanwith the same oil for 100 000km kill an engine11:36
Khertanmoontiger > yep11:36
moontigerok thnx ... you rock :)11:37
aquatixKhertan: your brother didn't want to spend money on it? ;)11:37
moontigermust get some sleep now its really late ... bbl11:37
aquatixmoontiger: nn11:37
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Khertanouch there is so many things to change in a theme ...11:39
hrwqwerty12: in Australia they are named Holden11:43
Mace`ugh.. damn govt.. they didn't file my travel claim because the paperwork wound up in govt limbo11:45
qwerty12hrw, heh, sounds even worse imo :P11:45
Mace`so now i'm probably going to have to wait another 3 weeks for my $3K11:45
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hrwqwerty12: which opel you use?11:45
qwerty12hrw, it's called Vauxhall here in the UK11:47
hrwqwerty12: I know11:48
qwerty12Oh, which one do I have, I don't have a car :P :)11:48
* hrw wants Metro application for maemo11:48
hrwqwerty12: how many years until you can make driver license?11:48
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hrweach time when I go to Berlin I need: Maemo mapper (to not get lost), GPE calendar (to keep event schedule), Garnet VM (to run Metro)11:49
qwerty12hrw, You have to be 16 to apply for a provisional drivers license so you can take driving lessons. After you pass, you can apply for the full thing.11:50
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qwerty12Yeah, Metro is great. Never had any use for it but it ran well on PPC :)11:50
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Khertani know one of metro dev11:52
hrwqwerty12: it is useful when you go to other city and do not want to get lost there11:52
Khertanthey don't give me the right to use their db11:52
hrwKhertan: ask him for gtk2 version?11:52
Khertanhe don't want to make a gtk2 version at this time11:53
qwerty12Read :(11:53
liriis there a considerable difference when adding a swap space on the flash in terms of performance?11:53
qwerty12When you say flash, I assume you mean the internal 2gb?11:53
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liriyeah, same thing isn't it?11:54
qwerty12Well, dunno about most people, I take flash to be the 256MB11:54
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liriwell, if the root partition is moved to the 2gb then the internal 256mb flash can be used as swap or the other way is to use the 2gb partition for both the root partition and the flash.11:55
liriis there any difference?11:55
hrwliri: internal 2gb is sd card11:55
hrwshit.. Metro do not have usable data for London ;(11:56
lbtwhich has the fastest access times?11:56
hrwonly London nightbus or London tourist ;(11:56
lirihrw: right11:56
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aquatixKhertan: i asked the Metro devvers whether i could help with their uiq3/symbian port, but they wheren't interested11:57
liriI join lbt when asking, which has faster access times? I'm assuming the 256mb flash does11:57
hrwliri: you can try fastMMC kernel and then sd would be faster I think11:57
qwerty12liri, not really. the flash uses jffs2 file system. jffs2 is compressed.11:57
liriok so, back to the original question - is adding swap actually improves performance?11:58
lbtqwerty12: yes but11:58
lbtthat's a choice of overlay11:58
lbtjffs2 on mmc is slower than ext on mmc11:58
lbt(isn't it?)11:58
qwerty12jffs2 isn't meant for non-flash devices11:58
aquatixmmc is flash i'd say?11:59
trickie|workholden rocks11:59
XTLiQuite likely11:59
lbtoh, right - am I confused because the mmc card controller essentially does what the jffs2 algorithms do?12:00
lbtso the internal flash is 'raw'12:00
qwerty12trickie|work, you are only saying that because you are from Australia though. Come, we'll have a crash up derby, Vauxhall V Holden :P12:00
lbtbut the mmc flash is accessed via an mmc controller chip?12:00
trickie|workqwerty12: well in australia there are two main car manufactures (there are more but for this story lets sya two) holden and ford12:01
* lbt can't think of 2 better makes of car to demolish12:01
trickie|workqwerty12: and they say you are either a holden man or a ford man12:01
trickie|workqwerty12: and i go for holden12:01
qwerty12Hehe, I prefer ford but that's just me :D12:01
lbtI used to be a ford man12:01
aquatixbleh, australian cars...12:01
* aquatix runs12:01
lbtbut then Tata bought Jaguar :D12:01
aquatixthey did?12:02
qwerty12yeah :(12:02
aquatixtata is taking over the world12:02
lbtI have a genuine Ford Jaguar!12:02
aquatixbought the steel company corus too12:02
* qwerty12 is more of a German car person12:02
trickie|workaquatix: you ever seen the australian v8 series stuff? cool stuff12:02
lbttoo clinical12:02
trickie|workaquatix: deadly though12:02
aquatix[biggest industry in this part of my country]12:02
aquatixtrickie|work: hm, i guess not12:03
aquatixtrickie|work: that's racing?12:03
trickie|workaquatix: yep, kind of nascar for australians, but way for cool :)12:03
aquatixor the engine class? :)12:03
aquatixsounds interesting :)12:03
XTLiMonoculture races suck. It's only people woorship12:03
* aquatix prefers the highway12:04
XTLiMachines are more interesting12:04
qwerty12aquatix, yeah, although we call them motorway :D12:05
lardman|gone~lart Windows because everything is shareware12:05
* infobot whips out a hot clue gun and makes sure that Windows because everything is shareware is stuck to the floor12:05
*** lardman|gone is now known as lardman12:05
aquatixqwerty12: we call them snelweg ;)12:05
aquatixi guess that directly translates to `fast way'12:05
qwerty12wtf is a "hot clue gun"12:06
aquatixfamily of the cluebat12:06
lardmanqwerty12: a painful way for users to get a clue12:06
lardmanqwerty12: s/clue/glue12:07
qwerty12yep, realised that one :)12:07
XTLiI could use one12:07
lardmanwell, the youth of today, all playstations, never have to use tools and all that ;)12:07
aquatixfeh, playstations...12:08
XTLiThey run GT and GTA12:08
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qwerty12Well, I don't have a playstation. :P. I only have a softmodded xbox :/12:08
* aquatix has a non-modded Wii12:09
* lardman has a PC12:09
aquatixof course with mario kart ;)12:09
aquatixlardman: i can tell you, the Wii is quite fun12:09
XTLiAh, one of those things that show error messages in supermarkets?12:09
aquatixmy first own console12:09
aquatixXTLi: no, those are windows terminals12:09
qwerty12When softmodding the XBOX, I'm pretty sure my life expectancy went down after breathing in a lot of dust from my old computer.12:09
lardmanaquatix: yep, I've played on one, but.... I think I should go outside and play tennis/fight with swords, etc. ;)12:09
aquatixlardman: fair enough :)12:10
XTLiMmm.. Swords12:10
lardmanI am being pestered to get one though12:10
qwerty12Give in to the force12:10
aquatixthings like mario kart, super mario galaxy [adventure], zelda and collective games like mario party are quite fun12:10
aquatixhell, we even have wii fit with that balance board12:11
aquatixyoga at home :)12:11
lardmanqwerty12: I might have to when TFU comes out in Sept12:11
qwerty12Nice :) . Just don't go abandoning us for the wii modding community :P12:12
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lardmanright, time to uninstall Xchat, it's rubbish, doesn't like copy&paste12:12
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qwerty12You have to highlight text to copy :(12:13
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qwerty12I don't like that but I much prefer X-Chat to Mirc12:13
lardmanqwerty12: Windows version12:13
* aquatix prefers irssi12:13
aquatixhydraIRC seems to be decent too12:14
qwerty12lardman, yeah, same, I'm chatting on the windows version right now :)12:14
lardmanIt just won't work any more, even if I right click on highlighted text and select copy, it will only do it within the program12:14
lardmanah ok, back to virc for me12:14
aquatixlardman: hydrairc might be interesting to look at when you use windows12:15
aquatixbut virc looks nice too12:15
* timely used to use virc12:16
lardmanjust needs to do the job and I've used virc before, but thanks for the suggestions12:16
timely(now i just use ssh+screen+epic)12:16
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XTLiMm.. Epic. Spent time with those in mid 90's12:17
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timelesshey, i'm looking for suggestions about common ways to break microb12:34
aquatixKhertan: i made an appointment with weekly repeats on my n81012:34
aquatixand now it gives an error on sync:12:34
timelessanyone have suggestions?12:34
aquatixlocal var `reccurence_data' referenced before assignment12:35
timelessthe obvious ones are disabling flash, javascript, enabling fit width to view, and changing your bookmarks owner to root12:35
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lardmananyone know of a decent explanation of how to use DMA?12:37
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qwerty12timeless,  Using the maemo integration's team services applet to reenable browserd after accidently disabling it12:38
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trickie|worklardman: ?12:55
RST38htimeless: breaking microb is easy12:56
RST38htimeless: pretty much any livejournal page12:56
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LuCk1hi all13:10
LuCk1did any one port the revelation password manager to maemo?13:10
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Khertanaquatix > ?13:20
Khertanstill here ?13:20
Khertanso you have made a reccuring and it make now an error in sync ?13:20
Khertanwhich version ?13:21
aquatixi closed and reopened mcal13:21
Khertanwhat is the error ?13:21
aquatixlatest, 0.3.4 iirc13:21
aquatixwhat i said13:21
aquatixafter restarting the app, i get a http 400 error13:21
Khertanhum ....13:21
Khertanthis is the error i'm tracking ... i can't reproduce it each time13:22
lardmantrickie|work: Thanks I'll have a look13:22
Khertanand if you sync it now ?13:22
Khertannever believe that doc is true ...13:22
aquatixnow i get the message "local variable 'reccurrence_data' referenced before assignment" again13:23
aquatixwith one r btw13:23
aquatixmaybe a typo?13:23
Khertanlol ...13:26
Khertanhum ... could find it ...13:28
Khertancould you launch it from xterm ?13:28
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Khertanso i could see the line error13:28
aquatixok, sec...13:28
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Khertanhop ... i ve found13:29
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Khertan a 'c' in reccurence is lacking in the assignement some line before ...13:29
aquatixnow i get a 400 error13:29
aquatixinvalid request uri, bad request13:29
aquatixon line 380, in UpdateEvent13:30
aquatixin service.py13:30
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Khertanyep ... i don't understand this error ...13:32
Khertansometime it work ... sometime not13:32
aquatixmaybe there's a restriction on how many posts you can do per second or something/13:33
Khertanno ... don't think13:34
Khertanbut i m not the only one which have this problem13:34
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Khertana new version is in the autobuilder queue :)13:35
Khertanfor 'reccurence_data' 'recurrence_data' :)13:36
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samppadoes maemo extras-devel repository allow to upload new version of package with the same version number as the existing version in repo ?13:39
* aquatix is glad to be of help13:39
aquatixsamppa: seems so13:39
samppafor example if there is only change in the dependencies13:39
samppaaquatix: ok, thanx13:40
aquatixbut that's based on my experience with packages with same version showing up after adding that repository :)13:40
aquatixbut why not add up the number behind the - ?13:40
samppayeah that will do it13:41
aquatixso 1.2.3-213:41
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qwerty12Adding +1 to the version numbers means users of the existing package will recieve the update :)13:41
samppai dont care about extras-devel users :)13:41
aquatixis that not what you want?13:42
samppahmm yes, im just testing13:42
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Khertan_n810aquatix > what do u think of the change on the ui ?13:45
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aquatixKhertan_n810: with 0.3.4?13:47
Khertan_n810some minor changes13:47
Khertan_n810i know13:47
aquatixin the appointment detail form?13:48
hrwsamppa: it should be bumped if deps changed13:48
hrwif *anything* in package change then version *needs* to be bumped13:48
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Khertan_n810hrw > yep13:49
aquatixKhertan_n810: it's good13:49
aquatixlooks intuitive enough for me :)13:49
hrwotherwise maintainer needs to be kicked13:49
aquatixhrw: :)13:49
Khertan_n810in a next version click on date on main view should display calendar13:50
chellihrw: i strongly agree! ;-)13:51
mikkov_is bzip2 still borked?13:51
hrwok, time to get info how to run Metro directly...13:51
aquatixmikkov_: seems so13:52
aquatixhrw: they have a site too13:52
Khertan_n8100.3.5 available in extras devel13:52
aquatixKhertan_n810: cool13:52
hrwaquatix: ?13:52
aquatixhrw: Metro has a web frontend too13:52
hrwaquatix: I do not use online services with n81013:53
Khertan_n810i ll see if patrice is interestted if i made a gtk2 version of metro13:53
aquatixah, ok13:53
aquatixKhertan_n810: any idea what kind of problems they have with uiq3?13:54
Khertan_n810no sorry aquatix13:54
aquatixi have gprs on my phone anyway13:54
aquatixnot that that helps me in other countries13:55
crashanddiehrw, you don't go online with your n810 ?13:58
hrwcrashanddie: only on wifi13:59
crashanddieah, ok, you scared me for a second13:59
* aquatix demands free wifi in public transports13:59
crashanddieaquatix, it would be nice, but quite complicated actually13:59
AStormgo HSDPA14:00
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* aquatix has gprs/throttled umts14:00
crashanddieaquatix, you're better off asking for free wimax in big cities :P14:00
aquatixheh, true14:00
AStormcrashanddie: it'd be ubercrowded14:00
aquatixbut i'm generally using public transports to go *to* those cities14:01
crashanddieAStorm, more than wifi on public transport ?14:01
AStormthat's how it is with such services14:01
AStormcrashanddie: yes14:01
aquatixcrashanddie: that's per bus/metro/train14:01
aquatixeven cabin14:01
Khertan_n810i ve asked again for metro to the dev ... and offer him to dev a gtk version in python14:02
crashanddieso you request a way for the trains to be covered by internet, even though they have to go through tunnels, and move at high speed ?14:02
AStormpity network through cellphone is expensive here14:02
crashanddieKhertan_n810, ++14:02
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AStormcrashanddie: simple, install just two transmitters in a long tunnel14:02
aquatixcrashanddie: wifi hotspot in train, hsdpa uplink or something?14:02
AStormyes, that14:03
crashanddieaquatix, that would be frigging expensive14:03
AStormor radio uplink, CDMA14:03
aquatixor some uplink thing at the side of the railway14:03
aquatixcrashanddie: why?14:03
AStormthe problem would be upping all the  cells to HSDPA14:03
aquatixone or two flat-fee hsdpa uplinks, some wifi AP's en a kilometer of utp14:04
Khertancrashanddie > this work on the line 13 in paris14:04
AStormwhile CDMA needs a fairly cheap antenna14:04
aquatixno CDMA here ;)14:04
Khertani stay connected while i'm in the metro14:04
crashanddieKhertan, yeah, and they're about to shut it off because of the expenses14:04
Khertansamething for line 1414:04
AStormaquatix: this radio uplink has huge range14:04
Khertanline 1, 2 , 4, 514:04
AStormmuch like wimax14:05
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Khertancrashanddie > are u sure ?14:05
aquatixi have really good gsm/gprs coverage in metro in amsterdam14:05
crashanddieKhertan, aye14:05
Khertancrashanddie > it s just a 3G14:05
Khertancrashanddie > ?14:05
AStormUMTS is 3G14:05
Khertannot 3G+ but work well14:05
AStormHSDPA is 3.5G14:05
crashanddieKhertan, they're currently negotiating new prices, but at the moment, there's too much bandwidth usage for the deals they had14:05
crashanddieKhertan, if they can't get better deals, they'll shut it off, and wait for wimax14:06
aquatixAStorm: yeah, but hsdpa are `minor' upgrades to umts14:06
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AStormaquatix: wrong14:06
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AStormit's a huge update14:06
crashanddieHow fast is the current uplink for HSDPA at the moment ?14:07
aquatixKhertan: ah, now it synchs fine14:07
Khertanand sync work with gprs too :)14:07
AStormcrashanddie: depends on the version, some 1 Mbit in the best?14:07
crashanddieso you have 1Mbit uplink14:07
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aquatixand about 3.2MBit down14:08
crashanddiesay you have 50 users, that's 2kB/s upload per user14:08
AStormand 7,6M downlink :>14:08
AStormaquatix: wrong version :>14:08
aquatixAStorm: i was being realistic ;)14:08
crashanddieand I doubt you'll only have 50 users on a train14:08
crashanddieIt's just going to be flooded 24/714:09
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aquatixcrashanddie: well, at least it's used then14:09
crashanddieThey'll need multiple uplinks, there's going to be abuse14:09
aquatixi'm not sure how many will use wifi in the train btw; don't see too many people using laptops or tablets on it14:09
AStormlaptops there are many14:09
crashanddieaquatix, you're never been on the london tube have you? :P14:10
aquatixah, metro14:10
infobotcrashanddie meant: aquatix, you've never been on the london tube have you? :P14:10
aquatixcrashanddie: no, i never been to London even14:10
aquatixplan to visit though14:10
AStormtrick is tying your wifi pass to the metro pass14:10
aquatixbut i've experience with amsterdam, brussels14:10
AStorme.g. make wifi avail. only to people with monthly or more14:11
AStormcost-effective :>14:11
crashanddieand welcome to administration hell14:11
AStormno, why?14:11
crashanddiebecause, people need to authenticate against some blobed up web page, you can steal MAC addresses, you can use an NSTX attack to go past it14:12
aquatixAStorm: lot of devices don't do wpa214:12
crashanddieoh please14:12
AStormso WPA14:12
crashanddieand what, give everyone the password ?14:13
aquatixset up a radius sever?14:13
aquatixyeah :)14:13
AStormgenerate a new pass going through a gate14:13
crashanddiedo you have any idea of the costs/difficulty ?14:13
aquatixcrashanddie: yeah14:13
aquatixso? ;)14:13
AStormnot harder than current tickets14:13
* aquatix sticks with his private mobile connection14:13
crashanddieWell, they're not going to do it, considering there's no money to gain14:13
AStormthere could be :>14:14
crashanddiedo you really think they're going to install such an infrastructure just so "we can be happy" ?14:14
aquatixget more people to use public transports14:14
aquatixmight even work here in the netherlands14:14
AStormand they could even sell that additionally14:14
crashanddieaquatix, people who don't use public transport, usually can afford to have unlimited data plans with their mobile, so they don't give a rat's ass about wifi14:14
aquatixbut knowing the companies, they will only put it in first class and such14:15
aquatixcrashanddie: erm, i drive a car14:15
aquatixhm, bad example14:15
crashanddieaquatix, because you don't live in a big city14:15
aquatixi went to my university by public transports from this address14:15
AStormcrashanddie: pity gprs doesn't work underground14:15
AStormat least here (except stations)14:15
aquatixAStorm: in amsterdam it does14:16
aquatixgsm network in the metro14:16
crashanddieAStorm, works here too14:16
AStormaquatix: :)14:16
aquatixeven better reception than above ground :)14:16
AStormsoory, yes, retarded country Poland is, forgot14:16
aquatixnah, Poland isn't retarded14:17
AStormit is "mildly deficient"14:17
aquatixbut investing in cellphone coverage in the metro might be nice14:17
crashanddieanyway, you're asking for something extremely difficult to setup, and thus extremely costly to setup, and for which the return value isn't evident, and if there is a return value, it's rather null14:17
aquatixin amsterdam it's almost necessairy14:17
AStormcrashanddie: simple to setup14:17
crashanddieaquatix, zit jij dan in nl ?14:17
aquatixcrashanddie: and it's obsolete on completion14:17
aquatixcrashanddie: ja14:17
crashanddieaquatix, oooh, leuk :)14:18
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aquatixcrashanddie: where are you located?14:18
aquatixif i may ask?14:18
crashanddieLondon now14:18
zap_pretty interesting, Georgia map is empty in google maps14:19
aquatixyeah, figured something from your reverse dns14:19
crashanddieheh :)14:19
aquatixcrashanddie: i live halfway between amsterdam and alkmaar14:19
crashanddieaquatix, nice... I spent some time in Delft14:19
aquatixreason i have to use a car to get to work is because of the transfer times14:20
aquatixand the 7km of biking through windy Den Helder to and from work14:20
crashanddielol @ "windy"14:20
crashanddieoooh, 30kph of wind... Djeezus, now there's something :P14:21
aquatixthere's *always* wind there...14:21
aquatixand i work at the Navi, so in the harbour14:21
aquatixso: car14:21
crashanddieaquatix, get your bike out in northern catalunya, I'll show you what "windy" really means :P14:21
aquatixmy main problem is the 2 hour of train travel14:22
aquatixwith almost 1h being transfer times14:22
crashanddieanyway, gotta go14:22
aquatixok, cya14:22
crashanddieaquatix, yeah, that sucks14:22
aquatixby car it's 55 to 60 minutes14:22
aquatixstupid 80km/h roads...14:22
aquatixanyways, ttyl :)14:22
crashanddieso you live like 70km from work ?14:23
crashanddiewould be better to just move closer :D14:23
aquatixno way14:23
aquatixi'm not moving to alkmaar or further north14:23
lcukdrive faster - or buy a flying car14:23
aquatixi like to live in the real world ;)14:23
aquatixlcuk: maybe i should borrow one of their helicopters ;)14:23
crashanddielcuk, I think they call that a helicopter nowadays14:24
aquatixlcuk: and about driving faster: hush, don't wake the dogs ;)14:24
lcukso, your boss thinks it takes 55 minutes to arrive at work, but in reality its a 15minute journey ;)14:24
aquatixha, i wish14:25
lcukcrashanddie, microlite is probably more suitable14:25
aquatixlcuk: poor little astra won't do 240 ;)14:25
lcukyou need to get a tow then from something that can14:26
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aquatixlcuk: problem is that that 80km/h road crosses some small towns where you only are allowed 5014:26
aquatixbackwards piece of country...14:26
crashanddieaquatix, hey, belgium is worse these days, you can't complain14:27
crashanddieaquatix, most cities is 30, and most roads is 7014:27
lcukcrashanddie, no, only motorways14:28
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* lcuk sees no logic in the uk road speedlimits14:28
lardmanlcuk: or other roads with a central reservation14:29
lardmanlcuk: get rid I reckon14:29
crashanddielcuk, but then again, we have Brown as a PM, so I guess logic went out of the country when that happened14:29
lcukand no built up residential blocks14:29
lcukno, it was gone well before brown14:29
lcukmy missus failed her test for speeding down a dual carraigeway at 4014:30
lardmanoh, one with a limit, or failed for going too slowly?14:30
lcukand another time for doin 30 in a 20 zone14:30
lcukone with a limit14:30
lcukshes got a leadfoot14:31
lardmanmine too14:31
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lcukOIthey buy such dainty shoes then press em as hard as possible into the pedal14:31
lardmanprobably why new shoes are needed every week ;)14:31
lcuklol tracy14:31
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AStormlcuk: was that mph?14:32
lcukthe "OI" was not typed by me :D14:32
lardmanAStorm: yes, it would be over here14:32
AStormhere police don't care as long as you're not speeding overtly (about 20 km/h)14:32
aquatixah, that makes more sense14:32
aquatixAStorm: i got a print for speeding 4km/h14:33
AStormoh shi-14:33
crashanddieaquatix, you were probably way over that14:33
aquatixwhich resulted in me going 57km/h where 50 is allowed14:33
aquatixcrashanddie: well, `way' is a bit much, but i went 7km too fast indeed14:33
AStormthat's why thee cameras are here set to catch over 15 km/h14:33
lcuk something like 44 in a 30 zone - i was so impressed, my car was knackered and i was going uphill - it barely made it to work14:33
crashanddieaquatix, there's always an edge, to account for the inaccuracy of your speedometer, and the fault tolerance in the radar/laser14:34
aquatixcrashanddie: yeah, that's 57 calibrated km's14:34
aquatixso my needle would've done 62 or something14:34
AStorm44 might've been too much :>14:34
lcukummmm forgive my half a sentense - tracy deleted it \o/14:34
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crashanddietracy, will you please allow gary to talk with us, djeezus, women14:35
AStormlcuk: you've your own censorship :P14:35
aquatixcrashanddie: was in one of those small towns where i was taking speed back from doing 80km/h; if you're done with breaking, you can step on the gas again...14:35
crashanddieaquatix, which usually is the cycle of driving14:35
lcuki dont wanna talk to smelly geeks14:35
aquatixyeah, but putting a speed cam there is just lame :)14:35
AStorm80 in town is... dangerous14:35
crashanddielcuk, who said that, gary or tracy ?14:36
aquatixthat's why i was doing 57 tops14:36
crashanddielcuk, and btw, who says we're smelly ?14:36
AStormaquatix: yeah, here they put it turned to back, 200m in town14:36
lcukwho do you think \o/ i has been taken over14:36
aquatixand likely was doing 50 5m down the road14:36
crashanddieand if you say "I can smell it from here", I'd say, put Gary in the shower14:36
lcuki cant stop local typing with vnc connected14:36
AStormthat gets all the idiots who can't use the brake14:36
aquatixturned to back?14:37
aquatixpicture from behind you mean?14:37
crashanddielcuk, so tracy, how is Gary in the everyday life ?14:37
aquatixah, reminds me i want to request their picture of me14:37
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AStormaquatix: facing back of your car :>14:37
aquatixcurious where they where measuring14:37
aquatixAStorm: yeah, that's default here14:38
lcuk_work<<<<< not in vnc any more14:38
crashanddieOH HAI LCUK_WORK14:38
aquatixcan i haz lcuk bek plz?14:38
lcuk_worki am14:38
lcuk_workits tracy has nicked my lcuk account14:38
* aquatix votes for more girls on irc14:39
AStormnickserv to the rescue?14:39
crashanddieaquatix, pervert14:39
aquatixcrashanddie: er, no14:39
* lcuk_work wont buy you any more swarovski14:39
* AStorm votes for more girls on metal concerts14:39
aquatixthey just are pleasant conversationist14:39
aquatixAStorm: lol14:40
crashanddieyeah... lol... "*grin*" really is an awesome conversation14:40
lcuk_workand she wrote that before i left vnc14:40
* trickie|work just votes for girls .14:40
AStormbetter than 8D14:40
* aquatix likes the smile from a girl any time ;)14:40
aquatixAStorm: lol14:40
* andre___ votes for more metal fans on hiphop concerts14:40
lcuk*loves u loads* ha it looks like u love yourself14:40
lcuk_work:O :D14:41
aquatixandre___: a pit on a hiphop gig? ;)14:41
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andre___exactly. i had that the last time. surprising and amazing14:41
crashanddielcuk*, don't you have something better to do ?14:41
aquatixandre___: that means you where visiting a hiphop concert? ;)14:41
AStormthose were punks14:41
aquatixcrashanddie: that's just lcuk_work simulating he has a girl ;)14:42
andre___aquatix, yes :)14:42
lcuk_worklcuk - have you broken anything else this morniN?14:42
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AStormthere are no girls onthe internets, except camwhores :P14:42
lcukno nothing new not so far14:42
crashanddielcuk_work, ironically, my mind is still set to the fact there's a time difference between the two of us14:42
AStormpics or it didn't happen :P14:42
lcuk_workthere is - you are just slow :P14:43
aquatixAStorm: yeah, pics or i'm not convinced of girlyhood ;)14:43
crashanddielcuk_work, I'm closer to greenwich so you're out of synch, bitch :P14:43
lcuklol @ girlyhood14:43
lcuk_workoh tracy, was talkin to james about kittens (hes gettin bengals) and he saw us on oldham cats thing14:43
XTLiBengals are neat14:44
lcukcool :D14:44
* aquatix starts conversation with lcuk demanding pic ;)14:44
lcuk_workyer, the way they rips of your head and chew on your neck is niceeeeee14:44
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lcuk_workaquatix: you want pussy pictures?14:44
aquatixhairy ones? ;)14:44
aquatixwas kinda skipping your kitting conversation14:45
lcuk_workwell im sure i could rustle up some shaven pussy pics - always makes tracy laugh14:45
crashanddieok, that'll be enough guys14:45
aquatixlcuk_work: wet pussies are nice too14:45
aquatixcrashanddie: irc getting nsfw?14:45
lcuk*closes eyes* cant believe such filth on here but i spose the net does corrupt ppl specially geeks who live here :D14:45
aquatixlcuk: hey, you brought up the subject of cats14:46
crashanddielcuk, don't talk too loudly, don't forget your hubby spends quite some time "in here"14:46
aquatixlcuk: ;)14:46
lcuk_workcant corrupt me any further than i am already14:46
lcukyeah i know he does im forever yelling bout it14:46
lcuk_work     <<< hot naked shaven pussy picture14:46
crashanddieI'm guessing we've all seen this one:14:47
lcuklaffs at lion cut14:47
crashanddieBlonde chick with nice pussy:
lcukright boys play nice im off to finish my hoovering an play guitar hero:D14:47
lcuk_workok sweetie, cya later on (K)14:47
aquatixcrashanddie: messie pussy:
aquatixlcuk: have fun :)14:48
crashanddielcuk, I'll pwn you at GH anytime of the day :P14:48
aquatixlcuk_work: ooh, you have a girl that does the hoovering :)14:48
aquatixmine demands i do that ;)14:48
AStormhey, caturday is tomorrow14:49
aquatixAStorm: it is?14:49
* aquatix notes 14:49
lcuk_workaquatix: tracys definition of fun: electrocuted twice, breaking computers putting back out, dropping lamps and finally football to the head :( she needs tlc14:49
lcuki didnt drop the lamp14:49
lcukor break the pc it was just malfuctioning of its own accord14:49
lcuk_worki notice you dont deny the rest14:49
AStormyeah, gravity did that14:49
lcukno cant deny the electrocution14:50
aquatix <- *grin*14:50
lcuk_worki was shocked to hear it14:50
aquatixlcuk_work: it's contaminating?14:50
lcuk_workaquatix:  you on ichc?14:50
aquatixlcuk_work: only read it14:50
lcuk_workaquatix: yer she caught it first time, but then didnt realise it was finished and it came back for another go14:51
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AStormaquatix: yeah, we know you're not a cat14:51
lcuk_workright, smoke time - ill be back ;later14:52
aquatix <- lol14:52
aquatixlcuk_work: talking about smoking ^14:52
aquatixAStorm: i aint?14:52
AStormaquatix: yeah, you're not on ichc14:53
aquatixAStorm: i'm ceiling cat's dad14:53
aquatixcan't be pictured14:53
AStormwhat about drawing?14:56
* lcuk_work signs off here14:56
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aquatixAStorm: sorry, only my name in tasty utf8 characters14:56
aquatixor tasteful, whatever you like14:57
AStormlecker :>14:57
aquatixdid you mean lekker?14:58
AStormthat was German14:59
aquatixfair enough :)14:59
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AStormis there a way to upgrade to diablo w/o reflash?15:07
AStormdoesn't have to be easy15:07
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Khertanhrw > the devs of metro doesn't want my help to make a gtk version they prefers to maintain their dev themself15:08
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aquatixKhertan: i gave up on metro when i gave up on using my palms daily15:15
AStormhuh what?15:16
AStormyou lost your hands? :>15:16
aquatixi used Metro on my sony clie's15:17
hrwsomeone here use Maemo mapper?15:20
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hrwwith Google Street source15:20
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hrwit does not download maps15:24
AStormwell, mine's broke15:24
AStormI'd like to know why15:24
AStormit]missing its home dir15:25
AStormand went batshit :>15:25
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AStormhrw: maybe you crossed Google's daily dl limit15:25
hrwAStorm: did not15:26
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hrwok, something is fscked deeper15:28
hrwopenstreet maps are not fetched too15:29
AStormyour connection has failed?15:29
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hrwI see...15:29
AStormok, now, I tell you what happens, you tell me how to fix it :)15:30
AStormmapper can't open any db file (because they're not there)15:31
AStormhow to fix?15:31
hrwno idea15:31
AStormok, mapper is stupid15:32
AStormit doesn't use readlink to check for exsistence of its dir :>15:33
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AStormI had a symlink to zilch in my home dir15:34
pupnik_Unconfirmed report that might affect your travel/work/investment plans
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AStormanother is that Russia  invaded^Wfreed S. Osetia (or Osetii)15:36
infobotAStorm meant: s/liberated/liberated15:37
pupnik_it looked like they want to seceede15:37
AStorminfobot: you're stupid15:37
* infobot scratches his head15:37
kulvenice overview about audio stream over BT:
AStormok, we need some uber version of A* for navigation with Google Street :)15:38
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AStormthat is: vectorizer and A*15:39
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AStormand some speed tagging15:39
AStormcan I hear volunteers?15:41
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derf"uber version"?15:43
AStormno, GPS navigation version :)15:43
derfI mean, A* is not a hard algorithm.15:43
AStormvectorizing is15:43
derfI don't even know what you mean by that.15:44
AStormdrive-by-pixel is crap15:44
AStormyou need to convert the bitmap to a vector format15:44
AStormthen maybe tag street names15:45
AStormand speed limits15:45
derfOr you could just use Open Street Map.15:45
derfAnd not have huge copyright infringement problems.15:45
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AStormderf: not if you keep it personal15:45
AStormstreet name data is ok15:46
AStormvectorized map is not15:46
AStormso that part you'll have to do locally15:46
derfThat sounds like a PITA.15:47
AStormoffline, output is small15:47
AStormdo it in parts, while dling maybe :)15:47
derfI don't know about you, but I often want maps for somewhere I want to go in the next few minutes.15:47
AStorm... predownload them?15:47
derfThere's no "offline", unless you want everyone to locally store a bazillion gigabytes of map data.15:48
AStormno, why?15:48
AStormyou need a bunch of major cities15:48
AStormafter processing, you could drop the original image even15:48
AStormvector data is tiny15:49
derfI still had to download it once.15:49
AStormyou have to do it now anyway :P15:50
AStormyou don't have to vectorize everything at once15:50
derfAnd even "tiny" vector data for every conceivable place I might want to go is probably larger than just the bitmap data for the places I actually go.15:50
AStormwell, yes15:50
AStormbut why vectoriye everything and not what you want?15:51
derfBecause it already takes too long just to download the maps _now_.15:51
derfAnd you want to make that take even longer.15:51
AStormsame time15:51
AStormcpu usage will go up15:51
derfNo, because now you've got a huge processing step afterwards.15:51
AStormnot huge15:51
AStormhuge for offline dload15:51
derfI don't know about you, but when my tablet is downloading maps, it is pegging the CPU 100%.15:51
AStormsmall for incremental dload15:52
AStormthat's sqlite15:52
AStormI'd drop that crud already15:52
AStormit sucks15:52
derfWell, if you solve _that_ problem, then maybe I'll care about the rest.15:52
derfBut just fixing that by itself would be a nice first step.15:52
AStormfirst, setting sqlite acid level to yilch speeds it up 1000x15:53
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AStormthis stupid piece of software runs fsync after each transaction15:53
derfYou know, I actually like the fact that when my tablet freezes and reboots, my ginormous map database that represents hours of downloading time doesn't get corrupted.15:53
AStormheh yup15:54
AStormI actually prefer file-based dbs15:54
AStormeasier to fix15:54
derfI don't want to have to fix it.15:54
AStormif you need to reduce seek time, gzip15:55
derfI want it to not break.15:55
AStormderf: well, fsync doesn't help15:55
AStormJFFS2 is journalling, right?15:55
AStormext3 too15:55
derfOnly metadata.15:55
derfI have no idea about jffs2, but it's irrelevant.15:56
derfNobody puts maps on their main card.15:56
AStormit fsyncs really15:56
derfAnd nobody uses jffs2 anywhere else.15:56
AStormext3 doesn't, well15:56
AStormext3 cheats a bit, by default buffers up to 5s15:56
AStorm(or other if you set commit=x option)15:57
AStormalthough MMC is slow15:57
AStorm2 MB/s or so15:57
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derfIt's not that slow... I can barely download that fast.15:58
AStormbut it frigging syncs every trans15:58
AStormso you get a one writeblock write15:58
AStormthis stresses wear leveling too15:59
AStormand the transactions aren't too large15:59
AStormit's sqlite's fail16:00
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AStormother dbs don't fsync16:01
AStormat worst you lose a transaction16:01
derfSo don't bitch at me about it, go complain to them.16:02
AStormjust use something better16:02
derfgunite accepts patches.16:03
AStormI have to try a hack at it16:03
AStormmaybe at least "unsync" option16:03
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AStormand do real trans instead of sqlite's auto16:04
AStormshould help a lot16:04
AStormI'm getting "unable to create map repo" and crash16:07
AStormI'll better check for updates16:08
zappppcould someone tell me some easy way to take screenshots on N810?16:10
AStormzapppp: the Load Applet16:11
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zappppAStorm: I installed it just a moment ago and can't figure out where it stores the screenshots16:13
AStormin ~16:13
briandin your home directory16:13
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zap_in ~MyDocs/.images/16:13
AStormI don't get why they hid these dirs16:14
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trickie|workkulve: thats is a good doc16:19
trickie|worklardman|lunch may be interested in it16:20
trickie|workalthough he probably knows much of it from doing his experiments16:20
zap_I want good doc too :)16:21
zap_where? :)16:21
trickie|workzap_: scroll up to kulve's last comment16:22
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trickie|work<kulve> nice overview about audio stream over BT:
trickie|workfor the lazy :)16:22
zap_I tried but my backlog is short16:22
trickie|workah ok16:22
trickie|workthere you go16:22
zap_ah, I have xchat logging everything :) hehe, Big Brother watches you16:22
XTLiIsn't the log on a web page somewhere16:25
zap_indeed cool stuff16:25
zap_indeed, the log is in the channel subject16:25
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RST38hlcuk: You should get it for your kid:
RST38hNot a deadly laser, but still...16:38
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AStormRST38h: fun stuff, but needs good ventilation16:44
XTLiLove the smell of pvc in the morning16:45
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AStormpvc? who uses that nowadays?16:46
glasskinky people16:46
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RST38hAStorm: beats weed.16:52
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AStormsomeone broke stuff16:59
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AStormthere's no new lightmediascanner-ogg17:02
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AStormkulve: move your junk :)17:02
AStormupdate to 0.1.10-maemo317:03
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pupnik_heh pandora has a fat battery: - "Early testing of the battery at 500MHz, full screen brightness, audio section powered but not providing sound, and no power management has yielded 8.5 hours before the system shut down."17:03
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AStormhow heavy and large is it?17:04
AStormdoes it have an open 3D accel driver?17:04
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Jaffapupnik_: will still reserve judgement until it's selling. It'll almost certainly be too bare bones to be anything other than an OSS DS competitor.17:04
johnxsupposedly "A little bigger than a nintendo ds lite, a little smaller than an original ds"17:04
pupnik_it's pretty fat, 27mm iirc17:04
pupnik_for the big honkin battery17:05
AStormpointless for me then17:05
johnxyeah, bigger than a zaurus...17:05
johnxit would fit in my cargo pants pockets, but not suit pants17:05
AStormwhat I need is n810 with gsm modem :>17:05
pupnik_still, takes up very little in a bag, purse, coat pocket17:05
AStormand a camera17:06
pupnik_8.5 hrs without power management puts it into another class17:06
johnxyeah, and I always have a bag when I have a suit on...17:06
AStormpupnik_: like that Raon Everlast?17:06
AStormor what it's called17:06
johnxsomething omap3 with a battery as big as the system board sounds about right to me :)17:06
pupnik_dunno that17:06
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AStormjohnx: if just Nokia made a custom battery for n810 instead of reusing bp5l17:07
pupnik_there's not much space in n81017:07
AStormand waste space17:07
johnxI'm tired of the screen update issues of the n8x0 series17:07
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AStormenough to put 2000 mAh17:07
johnxand really, a little speed bump would be nice for web browsing17:07
AStormfb chip is too slow17:07
pupnik_when does screen update bother you johnx17:07
AStormmovies, duh17:08
johnxgames mostly17:08
AStormand other interactive stuff17:08
johnxmovies can be worked around, since the movie player only has to be optimized once, but it's a problem for games...17:08
AStormfix libsdl?17:09
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AStormkulve: frigging bump ogg-support plz17:09
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lardmanjohnx: +1 for the screen bandwidth issue17:10
johnxit's even a problem for just normal screen redraws too17:10
lardmanThe DSP on the OMAP3xxx also supports 8bit types, which would make life much easier17:10
johnxpart of me wants an omap3 based system that's the size of a small netbook. it could be mostly battery :)17:11
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lardmanI'd just like something that doesn't choke on random videos, it's embarrassing17:13
lardmanand preferably something that still needs some work, otherwise I'll get bored :)17:13
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lardmanhmm, looks like the DSP has a dedicated LCD DMA, I wonder where that would place data?17:15
pupnik_johnx: a netbook form factor tablet would be great17:15
johnxyeah, I'd actually be happy to have my n800 become my "boring, dependable, working" handheld :)17:15
lardman(on the OMAP2xxx that is)17:15
pupnik_lardman: so that LCD can talk to the epson, or only internal 2420 controller?17:15
johnxpupnik_, same idea as the gigabyte m912 except an ARM instead of Atom? or smaller than that?17:16
lardmanso DSP can talk to the LCD, but probably not designed/workable with the external LCD controller we use17:16
pupnik_about 'netbook' size for me17:16
pupnik_or rather for older folks17:16
AStormtoo large17:17
pupnik_they squint at 225dpi17:17
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AStormcurrent form factor is ok17:17
pupnikAStorm: older folks need bigger screens17:17
johnx<rant>DPI is not a problem. Non-scaleable GUIs are the problem</rant>17:17
lardmanI like the iPhone browser (same goes for the Nokia phones I think) which can quickly show a page overview, then zoom in, etc.17:18
johnxif your font size changes with a change in physical screen dpi/ppi your system is *broken*17:18
pupnikwrong.  scaling the app or GUI doesn't get you an old-folks compatible reading/browsing/computing experience17:18
johnxif the buttons change size it has major room for improvement17:18
AStormpupnik: ...17:18
AStormget fucking glasses17:18
pupnikAStorm: you fail to understand17:19
pupniktheir eyes go bad17:19
AStormand they don't like glasses?17:19
AStormor contact lenses17:19
johnxAStorm, sometimes glasses can't fix everything17:19
AStormmaybe install braille screen?17:19
johnxmy vision is 20/35 with glasses17:19
AStormoh shi-17:19
johnxyeah, it's not a problem...I just use bigger fonts on my high dpi screen17:20
* johnx rolls his eyes17:20
lardmanI don't like very small text17:20
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lardmanI would prefer a slightly larger screen to be honest, Psion series 5 size, perhaps a touch smaller17:20
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lardmanwouldn't be so pocketable, but would be more usable (for me at least)17:21
AStormcan't go thicker though17:21
pupnikwould it be possible to attach a larger LCD to a used N800?17:21
lardmanI coulfd live with it if it had that keyboard! :)17:21
johnxlardman, I actually keep looking at the psion 5 series as an interesting size...and the black/white LCD would take so little battery power...17:21
pupnikcustom case..17:21
AStormpupnik: lcd controller is junk17:21
AStormit'd choke17:21
lardmanjohnx: colour is nice17:21
pupniksame resolution but 7"17:21
johnxlardman, the olpc display seems really interesting17:21
AStormpupnik: too large IMO17:22
lardmanpupnik: yep17:22
AStormwhat about that?17:22
* lardman finds a ruler17:22
RST38hSo, what have I missed?17:22
AStorm(size of old 770)17:22
lardmanonly in cm :D17:22
lardmanah yes, that's a decent size, just with a larger screen + N810 keyboard too17:22
AStormand it's thickness17:23
johnxRST38h, arguments about screen dpi, dreams of an omap3-based system between the size of a psion and a netbook, some other things probably17:23
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RST38hjohnx: Sounds like regular selection of topics17:23
RST38hNo flame wars? No iPhone? =)17:23
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AStormyup :)17:24
AStormstill, add gsm modem17:24
AStormthere *is* enough space17:24
AStormwimax, wifi, bt and gsm... made of win17:25
lardman|afkhow is the framebuffer transferred to the LCD controller, a DMA of some sort?17:25
AStormswitch wifi chip while at it17:25
RST38hThere are actually three buffers17:25
AStormlardman|afk: yes, but controller is slow17:25
lardman|afkRST38h: DMA to a peripheral then?17:26
RST38hlarman: yep17:26
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RST38hIt goes like this:17:26
lardmanjust wondering whether that could be done directly from the DSP, rather than having to write to the SDRAM framebuffer then let the ARM kernel call the update17:26
smackpotato1maybe there is some hidden hardware17:26
RST38hOMAP2 SDRAM ==DMA==> Epson chip buffer ==LCD IF==> LCD buffer17:26
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lardmando you happen to know what the Epson chip buffer is attached to?17:27
RST38hlardman: Probably, but you will have to screw Epson chip in a particular manner17:27
RST38h;ardman: to the epson chip!17:27
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lardmanSPI is it?17:27
AStormthis is prob. McSPI17:27
lardmanRST38h: doh! ;)17:28
RST38h"So, what do you do with an elephant gun? -- Hunt the elephants!"17:28
AStormno, kill people :p17:28
RST38hlardman: you don't have direct access to two other buffers17:28
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RST38hlardman: But you can probably tell Epson chip "receive this sequence of bytes and store it"17:28
lardmanRST38h: which are those?17:28
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RST38hlardman: Epson chip buffer and LCD buffer17:29
RST38hAStorm: inefficient.17:29
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lardmanRST38h: how are they different? Memory shadowed?17:29
kulveAStorm: what?17:29
AStormRST38h: yes17:29
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AStormkulve: lighmediascanner-ogg 0.1.10-maemo317:29
AStormit's missing17:30
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AStormchinook repo, btw17:30
kulvethat should be provided by the canola team17:30
RST38hlardman: these buffers are internal and not accessible to a programmer17:30
AStormkulve: hmm, then they failed at it17:31
RST38hlardman: So, you have to be aware of them but there is no need to waste time wondering how exactly they are connected17:31
RST38h"with wires" is a sufficient answer17:31
lardmanRST38h: I see, but they are available mapped to some memory location usually17:31
RST38hlardman: No17:31
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AStormwith wires using serial protocol is17:32
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RST38hlardman: If N8x0 used OMAP2 own buffer, it would be mapped17:32
AStormthey're not mmapped17:32
RST38hlardman: But Nokia went for the external chip with its own buffer17:32
lardmanthey are accessed how then?17:32
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RST38hlardman: they are not accessed by you17:32
AStormRST38h: for reasons unknown17:32
RST38hAStorm: For a well known reason17:32
lardmanso why is it a problem if I don't need to access them...?17:32
AStormchip gets a "update buffer" command17:33
RST38hAStorm: OMAP2 does not support 800x480 resolution17:33
lardmanI thought you were saying that the ARM side can access them, but the DSP won't be able to, etc.17:33
AStormRST38h: hmm?17:33
RST38hlardman: it is not a problem17:33
lardmanRST38h: it does according to the Ti header (display.h) ;)17:33
RST38hlardman: you just have to be aware of how the whole system works electrically, even if you can't access every piece of it in softwarer17:33
AStormRST38h: so the bottom line is: it's slow17:34
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RST38hlardman: I am saying that instead of configuring Epson chip to DMA data from SDRAM you can probably set it to be controlled directly17:34
AStormtoo slow probably17:34
RST38hAStorm: Well, not slow if you make all the parts work in harmony17:34
lardmanah, I was thinking that data would be pushed into it17:35
RST38hAStorm: But it is not always possible17:35
lardmanrather than pulled into it17:35
RST38hlardman: As I said, Epson chip probably allows both ways17:35
AStormpush might be slow17:36
AStormas it's normally used for commands17:36
RST38hBut if you are bent on using it, it may be possible17:37
AStormthough pointless17:38
lardmanwhat, push>?17:38
lardmanI was just wondering if there was a faster way of displaying data17:38
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lardmanbut I'm not mad17:38
AStormnot unless you rewire17:38
AStormyou could try forcing refreshes more often17:39
lardmanfrom the DSP I mean17:39
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AStormah, then no17:39
lardmanbut why not :) ?17:39
AStormnone I know of17:39
lardmanunless the DSP is not attached to the correct bus17:39
AStormbecause epson is attached to dma17:40
AStormand dma takes data from memory17:40
lardmanwell it could be un-DMA'd, but that might be tricky17:40
AStormuhm, with push17:40
AStormbut that will be almost certainly slower17:41
RST38hBTW, has anyone got access to OMAP's internal video buffer?17:41
AStormkulve: any idea how to get lightmediascanner-ogg or whom to prod?17:41
lardmanyeah, it's mapped in kernel space17:41
AStormbut not displayed17:42
lardmanAStorm: no, by setting up a DMA on the DSP17:42
AStormyou could work on it17:42
pupnikcould that be used for a kind of cache?17:42
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RST38hCan I get access to it in user space?17:42
AStormyes, mmap17:42
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lardmanlook at the bora framebuffer code for the address17:43
RST38hI think I know the address;)17:43
kulveAStorm: Eduardo Lima (Etrunko), eblima@gmail.com17:43
AStorm0xdeadbeef?  ;)17:43
AStormkulve: thanks :)17:43
RST38hYou can probably draw there and let Epso chip DMA from that internal memory?17:43
RST38hOr is it not DMAble?17:44
AStormthat sounds like a plan17:44
lardmanit's too small for the usual res17:45
lardmannot sure it'll be any faster than the SDRAM, but might be17:45
AStormDMA  twice?17:45
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AStorminterlacing :>17:45
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lardmanyou can just call the update ioctl after the dma from the DSP->ARM has completed17:47
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lardmannot ideal, but probably faster than the current writing each 16bit value into the shared memory region17:47
RST38hlardman: it should be faster than sdram17:47
AStormI'd expect 10-15%17:48
AStormless cpu usage too17:49
lardmanwhat is the SRAM anyway?17:49
lardmanyeah DMA would be better for that17:49
AStormsdram? normal ram17:49
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lardmanso, the built-in framebuffer memory is called SRAM in the kernel code17:50
RST38hSRAM is very good17:50
RST38hIt may be significantly better than 10-15% depending on how you access it17:50
AStormyou need to dma twice17:50
RST38hSequential accesses to SDRAM are just as fast but SRAM rules for random accesses17:50
RST38hAStorm: you need to DMA twice anyway17:51
AStormhmm right17:51
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RST38hAStorm: if you use the model proposed by lardman (DSP->RAM->EPSON)17:51
RST38hon the othe rhand dma is sequential by nature and this makes use of SDRAM properties17:52
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Khertanbye ...17:52
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AStormbut screen updates aren't, except in special cases17:52
lardmanwell, I'll look at dma to the standard framebuffer in the first instance, see what that does17:52
lardmanbora used to have a framebuffer in the SRAM, might be interesting to see how quick that was to use17:53
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AStormif you could get 640x480...17:54
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lardmanah well, if someone wants to test the SRAM, I'll test the DSP DMA17:56
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lardmanany thoughts as to my strange sbc behaviour, data are passed to the dsp in 512 byte chunks, it does some processing then returns a 74 byte chunk (iirc), this is done through shared memory (i.e. SDRAM)17:57
lardmanif someone tries to watch a video while using the encoder, the framerate drops to ~1fps but the audio continues fine17:57
lardmanit's not a lack of cpu on the ARM side, any other ideas?17:58
AStormsdram is being used a lot17:58
lardmanyeah, would that cause such issues?17:58
AStormand it has limited bandwidth17:58
AStormencoder uses a lot of ram17:59
lardmanwell about the same number of reads and writes would be needed if it were all on the ARM side17:59
lardmanencoder doesn't use any SDRAM other than the buffers to pass in and out17:59
AStormdoes it work faster w/o any dsp?18:00
lardmanyeah, it runs at the usual 30fps18:00
lardmanor whatever it's supposed to be18:00
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AStormmaybe dma is too slow?18:00
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lardmandma isn't used for DSP<->ARM afaict18:01
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AStormpossibly dsp kernel gets stalled?18:01
AStorm(due to cpu usage?)18:01
lardmanno, the DSP kernel is fine as the audio is still decoded at full speed18:01
lardmanjust the video framerate (i.e. all ARM-side) is killed18:02
lardmanso, there's extra kernel overhead from the DSP transfers, this is not alot, but if it's knackering a timer then it might have an impact, and there's also the mmu work of sharing the data18:03
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lardmananyway, thought I'd try dma'ing the ARM<->DSP stuff and see if that helps18:05
AStormmaybe some khread isn't RT?18:06
lardmanI wonder if mplayer can spit out some more info to give me a better idea of what's causing its problems18:06
qwerty12It has a -really-quiet switch, think it comes with a -really-annoying switch? :P18:07
lardmanAStorm: yeah, that's the other option, I wonder if I set the LCD to autoupdate, it that would show more frames18:07
lardmanqwerty12: yeah -v 9 or something18:07
qwerty12lardman, thanks, good to know18:07
lardmanAStorm: as atm I suppose mplayer has to enter the kernel via an ioctl to push the frame18:08
lardmanI don't know18:08
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lardmananyway, time to go, see you chaps later, have a nice weekend and all that :)18:08
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pupnik"ARM Releases AAC, MP3, MPEG-4, H.264 and FFT OpenMAX DL Libraries, Highly Optimized for Cortex-A8/NEON and ARM11 Processors"18:18
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* GAN800 eyes the new logo on the site.19:04
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Khertan_n810Hi !19:04
GAN800Welcome to Web 2.0 <_<19:04
GAN800It seems to be getting worse rather than growing on me19:05
Khertan_n810how do you say in english when a reccurent event is planned for the day : 'All day'19:05
Khertan_n810gan800 > web 2.0 is a marketting term19:05
GAN800'* GAN800 eyes the new logo on the site'19:06
Khertan_n810i mean from the start of the day to the end ...19:06
Khertan_n810oh ...19:06
Khertan_n810i ll look19:06
GAN800Yes, Khertan, I'm well aware of what the term means. ;)19:06
qwerty12GAN800, which site?19:07
Khertan_n810hum not very well integrated with the current sitge19:07
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qwerty12Oh I see. I prefer the old logo there. Maybe if the rest of the page is more modernised, it will fit there.19:08
GAN800I just don't very much care for the logo.19:09
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NaviGAN800, is totally Web 1.019:12
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lbtGAN800: well, if you wanted to help pick it you shouldn't have submitted one...19:18
GAN800Did I submit one?19:19
* GAN800 eyeroll19:19
lbtdidn't you?19:19
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lbtI didn't hear you volunteer to judge them19:19
GAN800I was in California19:19
lbtI was in the UK19:19
NaviI was with j00r mother19:20
lbtpeter was in nokialand19:20
GAN800Besides, dneary was picking up people like Peter19:20
lbtin the end there were only 4 of us19:20
GAN800California is relevant because I was on vacation with limited internet access.19:20
GAN800Oh, OK, defensive.19:21
lbtlack of interest from those in the community who didn't submit I guess19:21
GAN800right then19:21
lbtno - I was just surprised19:21
lbtthat not many people wanted to help pick19:21
lbtanyhow - no complaining if you didn't volunteer ;)19:21
* GAN800 eyeroll19:22
lcuklardman|gone, the epson chip apparantly has 2 DMA modes and we are only using one of them (the slowest)  if the other DMA mode is available it should bring an improvement in bandwidth.  im not sure where i read about the slower mode, but if it doesnt involve soldering it might be worth looking into19:22
lbt(of course, anyone who submitted a logo can complain as much as they like!)19:22
lcukas for other methods to get the data into the chip, i dont think the epson can see the internal SRAM19:22
GAN800I've got enough on my plate without adding more19:22
lbtI've got practically nothing to do.19:22
qwerty12lcuk, no idea if this relates to what you said but the epson chip is connected by a low speed interface19:22
lbtoh, wait...19:22
GAN800there's probably such a thing as being too involved.19:22
lcukqwerty12, thats exactly what i said :P19:23
GAN800_Maemo stuff_19:23
lbtwell, it's done now, make the best of it <grin>19:23
qwerty12lcuk, I just dont see DMA != interfaces but I dunno what I am on about :)19:23
lbtand we got peter to allow the use of the logo on its own19:23
GAN800Anyway, man up and handle a little criticism.19:23
lcuklbt, you getting twitchy fingers? need something to code?19:23
lbtshopper 0.3 is done19:24
lbtI just need my multiboot to multiboot19:24
lbtso I can test chinook debs19:24
Khertan_n810lbt > yes my logo was the best and it haven t been chossen19:24
lbtyou spelt maemo wrong19:24
lcukso i can buy a third of a bottle of milk - i cant wait to get the v1.0 stuff - theres a bottle of booze with my name on it19:24
lbtand cheese19:24
lbtit supports cheese 2.0 now!!!19:25
lcukKhertan_n810, your logo was amazing - i want a tshirt with it on19:25
lcukmore cheese19:25
Khertan_n810lcuk ... no no no19:25
lcukwill that cheapen the art?19:25
lbtlogo on cheese?19:26
Khertan_n810hum sorry wrong windows19:26
lcukyou could sell that on the art store for $99919:26
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lbtwindows is always wrong19:26
Khertan_n810lcuk > of course u can make a tshirt with it19:26
lcuk\o/ w0000t19:26
Khertan_n810i ll try to get one with it19:26
Khertan_n810for the summit19:27
lcuki might get a tshirt with the logo filename printed on it19:27
Khertan_n810lcuk > hehe19:27
lcukdid you use your tablet to sketch it?19:27
Khertan_n810yep :)19:27
lcukgood job man19:28
lcukthen i shall wear it with pride - until people ask me why im bleeding19:28
lcuki must go anyway19:28
* lcuk packs up his bag and goes home19:28
Khertan_n810i m looking for an online shop that make t shirt19:28
Khertan_n810lcuk > hehe i m in the train to go home19:29
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Khertan_n810hum i need to make a larger image if want to make a t shirt19:58
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RST38hmoo all20:04
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RST38hfucking's war.20:28
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johnxRST38h, eh?20:30
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johnxah, here I was worried it was the US being incredibly stupid...20:36
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RST38hjohnx: Well, the puppets are usually chosen to be more stupid than their master20:37
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RST38hStill, this is out of the ordinary20:37
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johnxwow...the whole situation sounds like a real clusterfuck20:39
RST38hit is still somewhat reversible20:40
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johnxI really haven't been terribly impressed with what any governments have been up to these last 10 years or so...20:41
RST38hat the very least, they could leave things as they were.20:41
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RST38h1400 local corpses, 10 Russian peacekeepers, unannounced number of Georgians (there was video of their corpses on the streets though)20:48
johnxanyways, enough depressing things for now. I need to get some sleep20:51
johnxI hope things work out...20:51
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SargunWhat's the best way to get started developing with Maemo?21:09
RST38hinstall Ubuntu21:09
RST38hinstall Maemo SDK21:10
SargunI have the SDK21:10
RST38hdownload a sample21:10
SargunI build hello world app for x86.21:10
SargunHow do I run this thing?21:10
RST38hbuild it for ARMEL, transfer to device, and test21:10
SargunI assume there is a better way to test21:10
RST38hThe only reliable way to test is on the device21:10
nomisSargun: start xephyr, start hildon inside scratchbox, test program.21:11
Sargundoes xephyr ship with the SDK?21:11
lcukSargun, if you have a device available, just compile for armel, copy binary over and run it21:12
lcukit can be automated with a script and ssh commands quite easily21:12
SargunI'd prefer to do development on this box, is there any way I can do that?21:12
nomisSargun: not sure at the moment, I think I have this package installed from debian.21:13
lcukyes, the xephyr way21:13
lcukbut theres nothing better than touching your own code :)21:13
nomisSargun: but xephyr is the thing recommended in the maemo tutorials so it might be included in the sdk.21:13
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Cptnodegarddoes anyone in here know a lot about s60 v3? the people in #symbian are morons and as helpful as omweather if you live outside the us21:20
johnxnot to be an ass, but omweather works great outside the US...21:21
Cptnodegardnot here it doesnt :p21:21
johnxwhere is here?21:21
johnxit works in Japan21:21
Cptnodegardthere are about 10 locations covered in the entire country21:21
johnxI happen to live in the second biggest city in Japan :)21:22
Cptnodegardyou have to have a shitload of gadgets o.o21:22
johnxhaven't bought much recently...21:22
johnxa couple SD cards and some cheap headphones... :P21:23
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Cptnodegardeither way i use handy weather for my e51, its way more accurate even though it costs money. can add location by GPS and it extrapolates, even if the nearest preset location is only 15 km away21:23
Cptnodegardi want one of those new fujitsu UMPCs21:23
Cptnodegardu10203040 or wtf its called21:23
Cptnodegard9 hours battery life21:23
johnxthe fujitsu u-can't-afford-it?21:24
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johnxit's funny, cause the hp mini-notebook is the one stores here can't keep in stock21:24
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Cptnodegardi want some smal pc but all they have here is crap21:26
Cptnodegardthe hp p1620 pwns but its 4000 USD21:26
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Cptnodegardacer aspire one XP version isnt released until 2 weeks21:27
Cptnodegardand i want a new toy now :(21:27
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johnxanyways, I really should sleep :)21:29
johnxgood luck with S60 (and finding a new toy)21:29
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RST38hCptn: Toshiba R50021:34
RST38hstarting from $150021:34
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CptnodegardRST38h: if it only did that here, starting at 2200 :po21:35
Cptnodegardgoingu up to well over 400021:35
RST38hCptn: Where is "here"?21:35
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Cptnodegard+r if you feel like it21:36
RST38hHow about ordering from US?21:36
Cptnodegardtaxes would still jump it up some21:36
RST38hHow about asking someone to bring it for you?21:37
Cptnodegard1500 is only a weeks pay or so, but with taxes and shit it would be 200021:37
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Cptnodegarddont know anyone going this way21:37
Cptnodegardalso a lot of money21:37
RST38h2000 is still ok if you are going to use it for a few years21:37
Cptnodegardacer aspire one with a bigger battery and XP would be nice once its released but i still prefert tablets21:37
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RST38htablets generally weight more21:38
Cptnodegardthats true but i already got a laptop and the n80021:38
Cptnodegardfact is i dont need any more gadgets, but i dropped my vacation to work so i want some new toy :p21:39
Cptnodegardsomeone needs to invent some new gadget type noone can live without21:39
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RST38hHeart implant21:40
Cptnodegardwhat annoys me about these f'ing "netbooks" is that they have crappy battery life. the n800 can easily do 6 hours of my usage and i have a usb battery backup which can tripple that21:40
RST38hSooner or later, nobody can live without it21:41
Cptnodegardan XP aspire one here will be 640, and a bigger battery is 15021:41
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Cptnodegardsomeone should make a 7" n800 with an atom CPU and a bit more ram, otherwise the same21:43
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RST38hAtom CPU - no go21:43
lcukwont there be hundreds of atom clones, use arm21:43
Cptnodegardwell some kind of faster CPU21:44
* RST38h is fine with the current N8x0 CPU21:44
Cptnodegardlack of power for real xvid playback is the only thing i dont liek about nit's21:44
lcukthe cpu is plenty fast enough - its the graphics which let this device slip21:44
RST38hTV is showing Firefly tonight, nice treat =)21:44
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Cptnodegardwell whatever makes it support xvid21:44
RST38hlcuk: It is not CPU, it is not graphics.21:44
Cptnodegardwould pwn21:45
RST38hlcuk: Actually weird how few people know what slows it down ;)21:45
lcukits having to render all that stuff manually, there is another 2 specialised ARM cores sitting idle21:45
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RST38hlcuk: It is the memory performance.21:45
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Cptnodegardwhat cpu are they using?21:46
RST38hlcuk: Don't believe me - allocate 8MB of RAM and do 1024 random reads in a tight loop21:46
RST38hSee how long they will take21:46
lcuki do that21:46
RST38hjust don't read sequentially - sequential read performance is more or less ok21:47
lcukmaybe not 8mb, but tight fast loops21:47
lcukand i jump because its bitmaps21:47
RST38hYou have to read from a large pool21:47
lcukdo a strip, jump forward, read another strip21:47
RST38hSo that you exceed cache21:47
lcuklike bitmapped image size21:47
RST38hnah, reading in strips does not count21:48
lcuk4096*4096 scaling21:48
lcukdown to arbitary size21:48
lcukRST38h, the memory is fine :) perhaps you are falling into the cpu freq hole.  sometimes a tight loop makes the cpu think its not busy so it slows down21:48
RST38h4096*4096 = 16 megapixels21:48
lcuktry it again on performance and then te me21:48
RST38hlcuk: reading stuff in strips is not random reads21:49
lcukbut scaling the bitmap is certainly not sequential within buffer21:50
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GAN800Cptnodegard, OMAP242021:50
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RST38hlcuk: it is sequential21:51
RST38hlcuk: you write in strips, left to right21:51
lcukyes but picking far enough away to not be bufferable21:51
lcukby the way, this is the image
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Cptnodegardive seen that planet before...21:55
Cptnodegardvulcan? kronos? cardassia?21:55
Cptnodegard[/trekkie humour]21:55
RST38hlcuk: SDRAM can do sequential (even uncacheable) reads relatively well21:55
lcukCptnodegard, its epsilon III i believe21:56
lcuk ;)21:57
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lcukRST38h, so what, it has to slow down, find a place to do a u-turn and then carefully pull back out into traffic to go the other way?21:58
lcukits memory and the performance isnt that bad21:58
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RST38hlcuk: well, as you wish to think :)21:59
Cptnodegardlcuk episilon is a ST planet too, form voyager21:59
RST38hBut in a real life, where you do not access memory in stripes, it is damn slow21:59
lcuki access random memory all the time - one letter is over here, the next is over there, the other is over there22:00
lcukeach different malloc and i dunno where the char comes from22:00
lcuksome have only a few bytes each22:00
lcukothers have22:00
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Cptnodegardso, no S60 experts in here?22:01
lcuki dont see it being slow apart from byte only is slower, and unaligned longs cost me about 1fps  but the direction of where i go isnt slow22:01
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Cptnodegardor if anyone know a way to get google calendar to ignore robots.txt22:02
lcukit shouldnt ignore robots22:02
Cptnodegardyes it should, otherwise its uselss to me22:02
lcukwhy do you want google to scan a banned domain?  why not open up the areas for google to come in22:02
lcukie use robots properly22:02
Cptnodegardmy school offers my schedule as .ics downloads, which i could sync with me E51 if i just got google calendar to read the ics file - which it cant because the morons put a robots.txt on the server22:04
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lcukcant you push it with a script from your account to somewhere visible - ie post direct to the cal account or something?22:05
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Cptnodegardi dont know how to do that22:05
Cptnodegardi got as far as modifying a php script to get me a recent ics file (the url is static with from and to dates) but thats as far as my skills go22:06
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Cptnodegardbut i do know someone i can bug to help me >:D22:08
lcukwhy dont you ask your school techs?22:08
Cptnodegardsystem admin didnt understand the question22:08
lcukthey will know about google calendar and stuff and might have a method22:08
lcukhave you got an 8 year old brother?22:09
Cptnodegardasked if he could either remove robots or modify it to allow the timedit directory and he didnt understand the question22:09
Cptnodegardyeah but hes stupid22:09
lcukheh so who does the tech support in your family22:10
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Cptnodegardpeolpe i have on gtalk :p22:11
Cptnodegardthey normally do the technical part of my random ideas22:11
Cptnodegardso far i have a webcomic to canol2 photofeed script thingy, a script that looks up phone numbers and gives me back a contacts file (for my cell) and a norwegian postal tracking to rss script22:12
Cptnodegardall of them courtesy of peopl ei bug22:12
Cptnodegardohohohoh nice link22:13
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Cptnodegardlol wtf cnet crave are weird22:15
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alex-weej_before anyone else grills me for spam, sorry. "/amsg" works for all networks at once in X-Chat, CAUTION!23:40
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RST38hlet us grill him for spam!23:45
mranostay_workew spam23:45
RST38hand add some vegetables too23:45
RST38h'cause there is some meaningless crap written at that url23:45
bef0rdand there were some of us that clicked the same link twice!23:47
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