| RST38h | This thing can work as a desktop replacement. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| lcuk | RST38h, quite a lot of embedded devices nowadays can | 00:00 |
| RST38h | yes, but it got everything down to PS/2 port | 00:01 |
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| lcuk | heh | 00:01 |
| RST38h | ah, it is not ARM, it's a MIPS | 00:01 |
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| RST38h | and it has got a video accelerator | 00:04 |
| zap | oops, my ssh key doesn't work with garage anymore | 00:06 |
| zap | I was banned? | 00:06 |
| pupnik | RST38h: is this something you can name, or is it NDA | 00:07 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: ICNexus 26x0 series SoC | 00:10 |
| pupnik | wonder what intel wants with that | 00:11 |
| pupnik | ttyl | 00:11 |
| RST38h | Intel has nothing to do with this | 00:12 |
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| zap | why someone would want a 960x240 LCD, and how this can replace a desktop | 00:13 |
| zap | this could replace an HP-42 calculator perhaps | 00:13 |
| RST38h | they count width in pels | 00:13 |
| RST38h | it is really 320x240 | 00:14 |
| lcuk | or its 960 greyscale | 00:14 |
| atkarc^^ | goodnight all | 00:17 |
| RST38h | lcuk: dream on =) | 00:17 |
| * zap shudders imaginig his display would do 320x240 | 00:17 | |
| * RST38h programmed for 128x96 display once | 00:17 | |
| lcuk | RST38h, :) not everyone thinks in colo | 00:17 |
| lcuk | color even | 00:18 |
| RST38h | lcuk <-- YUV man =) | 00:18 |
| lcuk | Y :) | 00:18 |
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| lcuk | i came for the black and white text | 00:18 |
| lcuk | i have no need for color (apart from my sketching :D) | 00:18 |
| zap | I came to release you of colors, I am teh Grayscale man! | 00:19 |
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| Proteous | I always liked The Woz story about how he figured out how to output to a color monitor without the normal stuff to do it. | 00:20 |
| lcuk | that sounds familiar | 00:21 |
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| RST38h | Proteous: solder two more rows of DRAM on top of the existing one? | 00:22 |
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| Proteous | ? | 00:23 |
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| lbt | not being an itt inhabitant - does anyone know of any threads there discussing the logos? | 00:24 |
| Proteous | He was able to generate the required analog signal with the correct timing just using the few chips he had available, no dedicated DAC | 00:24 |
| RST38h | oh, that... | 00:25 |
| RST38h | but you don't really need DAC for NTSC | 00:25 |
| RST38h | NTSC is all timings anyway | 00:25 |
| Proteous | the cool part wasn't that he did it, it was how he did it | 00:26 |
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| nemo | RST38h: ditto on the 128x96 - that was just last month actually | 00:26 |
| Proteous | the stuff that other people were using at the time was exspensive | 00:26 |
| Proteous | expensive | 00:26 |
| RST38h | What year was it? | 00:26 |
| crashanddie | btw, it's colour :P | 00:27 |
| Proteous | :P | 00:27 |
| Proteous | 2008 | 00:27 |
| Proteous | what year did you think it was? | 00:27 |
| RST38h | 'cause Atari 2600 appeared in 1977 and it did NTSC just fine | 00:27 |
| crashanddie | first colour display ? | 00:27 |
| RST38h | wasn't expensive at all, used MAIN CPU to output video signal | 00:27 |
| CAP4276 | hello | 00:28 |
| Proteous | the was before that | 00:28 |
| Proteous | think, homebrew computer club | 00:28 |
| Proteous | apple 1 | 00:28 |
| Proteous | computers cases built of wood | 00:29 |
| Proteous | wirewrap it yourself | 00:29 |
| lcuk | atari had a wooden facia | 00:29 |
| Proteous | lol | 00:29 |
| Proteous | true | 00:29 |
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| crashanddie | btw | 00:29 |
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| crashanddie | Computers have always been colour enabled :P | 00:29 |
| crashanddie | I remember the screens being green on black, or orange on black | 00:30 |
| crashanddie | that's colour to me :P | 00:30 |
| crashanddie | Even white on black is colour :P | 00:30 |
| lcuk | ewwww them were the days: shrek porn | 00:30 |
| crashanddie | hahaha | 00:30 |
| crashanddie | looks like we didn't evolve that much | 00:30 |
| lcuk | i thought i was a fossil | 00:30 |
| crashanddie | btw | 00:31 |
| crashanddie | notice how "the matrix" made green on black cool | 00:31 |
| crashanddie | like somehow it was a revelation | 00:31 |
| Proteous | bah, my ssh sessions have been green on black since before the matrix | 00:31 |
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| Proteous | I went through an orange on black faze too | 00:31 |
| lcuk | i best get my head back into code anywa | 00:31 |
| crashanddie | phase | 00:31 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, take car | 00:32 |
| crashanddie | or bus | 00:32 |
| * lcuk sets fazer to stun | 00:32 | |
| lcuk | thats almost fonzified :D | 00:32 |
| crashanddie | you're the fonz | 00:33 |
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| Proteous | don't go jumping any sharks now | 00:33 |
| crashanddie | Back in the day, lcuk was the cool guy, with the torn leather jacket, the 50cc bike, jeans so tight his testicles... well, you get the picture | 00:34 |
| crashanddie | LCUK IS THE FONZ | 00:34 |
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| crashanddie | I'll stfu now | 00:35 |
| lcuk | actually, it was manchester inthe 80's - i had jeans so baggy i could fit my waist in the legs | 00:35 |
| crashanddie | wait | 00:35 |
| crashanddie | in 2000, I was 14 | 00:36 |
| crashanddie | which means in 1990, you were 15 | 00:36 |
| lcuk | if 1990 i was 15 | 00:36 |
| lcuk | i aint *that* old | 00:36 |
| crashanddie | man | 00:37 |
| crashanddie | I was 4 | 00:37 |
| * lcuk still gets called liam gallagher | 00:37 | |
| crashanddie | in 1990 | 00:37 |
| crashanddie | I mean, you must've had your first look at penthouse when I was being assembled | 00:37 |
| lcuk | nahhh | 00:38 |
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| crashanddie | /alias lcuk Bernie_Barker | 00:40 |
| crashanddie | :D | 00:40 |
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| lcuk | ..? defies words. even safe search did not protect my eyes | 00:41 |
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| lardman | am I too late to abuse lcuk too? ;) | 00:44 |
| crashanddie | is it ever | 00:44 |
| crashanddie | ? | 00:44 |
| lardman | nah, true :) | 00:44 |
| lcuk | shurrup gramps | 00:44 |
| deisi | soy española | 00:44 |
| crashanddie | deisi, language in this channel is English | 00:45 |
| lardman | deisi: hello Spanish girl | 00:45 |
| * lcuk wonders what he did | 00:45 | |
| lardman | to receive the abuse, or change the language? :) | 00:46 |
| lcuk | simon, i am actually thinking about a problem which you may be able to put your mind to | 00:46 |
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| lardman | uurgh | 00:46 |
| lcuk | its mathematical :) | 00:46 |
| lardman | go on then :) | 00:46 |
| lcuk | i am revisiting multitouch | 00:46 |
| deisi | hello | 00:47 |
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| lcuk | the aim this evening is for me to take a 1 dimensional set of data points and identify the finger points over time | 00:47 |
| lardman | how is the data presented? | 00:47 |
| lardman | is there some raw form which might give multitouch abilities? | 00:48 |
| lcuk | collection of data points - can be an arbitary array, but its variable in time | 00:48 |
| lardman | ok | 00:48 |
| crashanddie | deisi, hi, how can we help you ? | 00:48 |
| lcuk | at present ive got [x,y,z,t] | 00:48 |
| lcuk | z=pressure ;) | 00:48 |
| lardman | right | 00:48 |
| crashanddie | how precise is the pressure information ? | 00:48 |
| lcuk | now, when ive tried in the past ive been attempting to work with the whole 2d matrix | 00:49 |
| lcuk | ~600 to ~100 units from "are you touching me" to "MEDICCCCCCC!" | 00:49 |
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| crashanddie | possible to make some kind of scale ? | 00:49 |
| crashanddie | Could be useful for those cops in germany | 00:50 |
| crashanddie | they could use it to measure how much weed someone's carrying | 00:50 |
| lcuk | the data is very scattered - when you press the second finger the weight distribution spreads and you get a data point at the centre of mass | 00:50 |
| lcuk | doubt it | 00:50 |
| rm_you | yeah but from what i've seen it tends to jump rapidly between the two points | 00:50 |
| crashanddie | leave it for a second, look at the screen, it reads "let him walk", next guy, the screen reads "busted, call Fox, we need the Cops crew" | 00:51 |
| rm_you | depending on pressure | 00:51 |
| lcuk | yes rm - thats the centre of mass shifting | 00:51 |
| rm_you | right | 00:51 |
| lcuk | it does it with a single finger, but only within a tiny radius | 00:51 |
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| crashanddie | I'll be back in a small hour, then I'll be heading to bed | 00:52 |
| lcuk | im gonna see what i can do tonight to identify it and try a few equations out - but ill build a mini test lab to see it all. if i get nowhere quick simon, would you take a peek and see if you can manage anything? | 00:52 |
| crashanddie | cheers if I don't catch ya again | 00:52 |
| crashanddie | simon ? | 00:53 |
| lcuk | lardman | 00:53 |
| crashanddie | oh | 00:53 |
| crashanddie | being intimate and everything, are we ? | 00:53 |
| crashanddie | lardman, how's your cat ? | 00:53 |
| lcuk | somehow seems wrong to call him lardman in public rl, so i got used to simon | 00:53 |
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| lardman | sorry, had to go get a spider | 00:53 |
| lcuk | especially when lardwoman was there :P | 00:54 |
| lcuk | lol | 00:54 |
| lardman | sailing close to the wind there! ;D | 00:54 |
| lcuk | yer i know lol | 00:55 |
| lardman | so does it oscillate between the two points, or somewhere between the two depending on the pressure of your fingers? | 00:55 |
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| lcuk | it waves between the two depending upon pressure - and its wildly variant at times | 00:56 |
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| lardman | I have a horrible feeling that unless you can get people to always tap with the same pressure, you're got too many variables | 00:56 |
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| lcuk | i can get a rotated eclipse of pressure data - and i think i can know when it expands or contracts | 00:57 |
| lardman | how is the pressure measured? If you hold one finger on, then hold another somewhere else, does the pressure measured go down -> is it averaged, or added? | 00:57 |
| lcuk | which should be good for maps | 00:57 |
| lcuk | you get a data XY at the centrepoint of the 2 fingers (assuming perfect touches) and i believe its lighter pressure but i never looked | 00:58 |
| lardman | ah ok, so look at the time history, decide from the random behaviour that it's multi-touch, then look at how the data changes to see whether the fingers are moving together/apart? | 00:58 |
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| lcuk | yes - thats how im thinking | 00:58 |
| lardman | sounds interesting | 00:58 |
| lardman | your widget will need to filter the tap/mousedown events and do its own processing then | 00:59 |
| lcuk | ill see if i can give you a testlab | 00:59 |
| lcuk | yes | 00:59 |
| lardman | will be annoying if you also want to do single taps in that area | 00:59 |
| lardman | laggy | 00:59 |
| lcuk | but thats ok, the mouse event will simply return single touch | 00:59 |
| lcuk | its only once the stroke goes bonnkers do you know its a 2touch | 01:00 |
| lardman | yeah, but you'll need to look at the time history to decide if it's single or multi-touch | 01:00 |
| lcuk | think of the map - the single touch will just floatmove anyway - like the book reader bit of liqbase grab hold and move document | 01:00 |
| lcuk | if you then go bonkers it just zooms | 01:00 |
| lcuk | for this device i fear the biggest problem is not technical, but pyhsical - the screen is simply too tacky to use with finger pads | 01:01 |
| lcuk | it might need thimbles to work cleanly ;) | 01:02 |
| lardman | :) | 01:02 |
| lardman | or wait for a multi-touch version to come out... | 01:02 |
| lardman | or is it all patented? | 01:02 |
| lcuk | i dunno | 01:02 |
| lcuk | i wouldnt like an apple screen though | 01:02 |
| lardman | res? | 01:02 |
| lardman | looks quite nice though | 01:03 |
| lcuk | have you tried using a stlus on the apple ipod you have? | 01:03 |
| lcuk | could you imagine handwriting or sketching on it? | 01:03 |
| lcuk | they have lots of things, but touch on that device is too fat and imprecise | 01:03 |
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| lardman | ah, ok, I've not tried and I can't find it atm | 01:04 |
| lcuk | hehe - you cant even use a fingernail | 01:05 |
| lcuk | its the wrong type of touchscreen | 01:05 |
| lcuk | or wear gloves ;) | 01:05 |
| lcuk | anyway, it was just on my mind - if i get anything setup tonight ill give you a shout tomorrow | 01:05 |
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| jott | lcuk: there is most likely a pen that is usable with the iphone touchscreen | 01:06 |
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| lcuk | yer, ive got a battery powered one for my other tablet | 01:06 |
| lardman | lcuk: ok | 01:06 |
| lardman | hi jott | 01:06 |
| lcuk | back later folks :) | 01:06 |
| lardman | night lcuk | 01:07 |
| jott | hey lardman how is it going? | 01:07 |
| jott | lcuk: bye :) | 01:07 |
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| lardman | jott: not bad, you? | 01:07 |
| lcuk | thanks lardman gnite yourself | 01:07 |
| jott | lardman: yeah fine, but should have achieved a bit more today :) | 01:08 |
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| jott | http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/product/16691.htm :) | 01:08 |
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| lardman | expensive! | 01:09 |
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| lardman | I had a look at the pdf417 (stacked 1D barcodes) code this morning, it expects a b&w image as input, and it should be aligned correctly | 01:09 |
| jott | if you pay your monthly iphone bill you won't notice :P | 01:09 |
| RST38h | lardman: according to mac cultists, expensive=holy! | 01:09 |
| lardman | jott: ah, ipod touch and it's the gf's | 01:10 |
| lardman | RST38h: :) | 01:10 |
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| RST38h | [and I am NOT joking, once had to argue with some nutcase complimenting Jobs on how nicely and pleasantly He makes him spend money on iPhone services] | 01:11 |
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| RST38h | TSA Confiscates Homemade Battery and Water Bottle, Declares Victory Over Terror! | 01:13 |
| lardman | and these barcodes differ in size, but from a rough calculation, that needs to be aligned to ~1.4 degrees | 01:14 |
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| jott | lardman: it would also be nice to have a set of preprocessing filter. | 01:16 |
| zap | and plugins, plugins! | 01:16 |
| zap | (in Python, of course) | 01:16 |
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| lardman | plugins would be good, yes, so people can slot in whatever type of handling they want | 01:17 |
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| lardman | jott: Looking at the datamatrix code it actually follows the edge, this might be the best bet | 01:17 |
| lardman | unless I can hold my hand very still | 01:17 |
| lardman | and the pre-processing will be the big thing - will look at the 1D code you added to see how to clean up the input data | 01:18 |
| jott | i guess the biggest problem is out-of-focus handling. | 01:18 |
| jott | the current code just uses a moving average | 01:18 |
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| lardman | is out of focus that big a thing? The images looked ok to me | 01:18 |
| lardman | on n810 this is | 01:19 |
| jott | yeah here too.. it's not *much* but given that the bars have a small spacing in the first place... | 01:19 |
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| lardman | would be painful having to do a sharpen filter on the data though, computationally | 01:20 |
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| jott | lardman: yeah :( | 01:20 |
| lardman | but, I don't actually know how long it would take, perhaps it wouldn't be so bad | 01:20 |
| jott | well i wonder if it would work on 320x240 images. | 01:20 |
| jott | because 640x480 sucks alot of cpu. | 01:21 |
| jott | (the camera alone) | 01:21 |
| lardman | the other thing is to just sharpen the line in question | 01:21 |
| lardman | or rather that line using that + ones above & below | 01:21 |
| jott | lardman: yeah well i guess we could reduce the number of scanlines alot | 01:21 |
| jott | currently every 4th row is taken | 01:22 |
| jott | it would probably enough to consider only every 16 rows or so. | 01:22 |
| lardman | I don't think 1D is a problem though, it works pretty well and is quick | 01:22 |
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| jott | and with that it seems reasonable (atleast for the 1d) to apply filters only on the scanline | 01:22 |
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| jott | (and some adjacent lines) | 01:22 |
| jott | lardman: yeah still could be better ;) | 01:23 |
| lardman | was rm_you having troubles because of blurry images or was it something else? | 01:23 |
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| jott | hm blurry, and curvature | 01:23 |
| lardman | jott: leave the optimisation until the rest of the app works I reckon | 01:23 |
| lardman | 1D optimisation that is | 01:23 |
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| lardman | I'll have to have a play with it | 01:25 |
| lardman | am feeling a bit left out being away for a week ;) | 01:25 |
| * jott still does not really care about anything but ean13 :) | 01:25 | |
| * lardman wants it to be complete | 01:26 | |
| lardman | and he also sees quite a few datamatrix & stacked barcodes and wants to know what they say | 01:26 |
| jott | hehe | 01:26 |
| lardman | so what about ean handling then? | 01:26 |
| lardman | there's a database currently? What does it do? Contain lookups? | 01:26 |
| jott | lardman: yeah it's the database from upcdatabase.com which contains mostly us/uk products. | 01:27 |
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| lardman | how large is it? | 01:27 |
| lardman | isbn lookup would be simple enough to add, it's easy to calculate | 01:28 |
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| lardman | assuming we can find a db, or fallback to the web (which should also happen with the unknown eans) | 01:29 |
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| jott | yeah would also be nice to allow manual data entry that can be submitted to upcdatabase | 01:29 |
| lardman | true | 01:29 |
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| jott | 955377 items are currently in there | 01:30 |
| jott | minus a bit of spam ;) | 01:30 |
| brontide | This afternoon I was using the camera application and feeding the .jpg's to a QR code webapp | 01:30 |
| lardman | then we just need a web guru to write some code to ask Amazon, etc., how much these things cost and their reviews and we'll be just like AndroidScan ;) | 01:30 |
| lardman | brontide: how did it work? | 01:31 |
| lardman | how well that is | 01:31 |
| brontide | I can post one of the images, quite well | 01:31 |
| jott | lardman: we could use switch to qt for the gui, this would make everything fairly easy ;) | 01:31 |
| lardman | :) | 01:31 |
| lardman | Is maemo switching, did I miss something important? | 01:32 |
| jott | lardman: python is also fine, kerthan is working on some bindings. | 01:32 |
| lardman | yeah python would be good, nice and easy for people to add stuff in | 01:32 |
| jott | lardman: in the long term it's not unlikely ... but for now we soon have nice hildonized qt ;) | 01:33 |
| lardman | I saw that bit | 01:34 |
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| lardman | well, makes no odds to me really, as long as it works well | 01:34 |
| brontide | http://picasaweb.google.com/ericewarnke/Web/photo?authkey=46QGTgmVhCU#5228939015032733170 | 01:34 |
| lardman | one thing we will need to do is work out whether we can run each barcode decoder sequentally until something gets a match, or if that will be too slow and we need to use quick tests to provide hints as to the barcode type | 01:35 |
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| lardman | brontide: that's not the image you were trying to decode is it? | 01:36 |
| jott | lardman: hm well i guess it will be too slow. it's at 100% cpu already with 640x480 :( | 01:36 |
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| brontide | lardman: worked perfectly | 01:36 |
| lardman | jott: yeah, but will lots of runs thougth the 1D code | 01:36 |
| lardman | brontide: from that, impressive | 01:36 |
| brontide | zxing | 01:36 |
| brontide | http://zxing.org/w/decode.jspx | 01:36 |
| lardman | I'm impressed | 01:37 |
| brontide | Yeah, i was surprised as well... although much further back and it started to fail | 01:38 |
| jott | hm maybe we should really port zxing to c/c++ :) | 01:38 |
| brontide | zxing is already availible for c/c++ | 01:38 |
| jott | oh | 01:38 |
| brontide | QR codes only though | 01:38 |
| jott | ah, ok. still nice. | 01:38 |
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| derf | What's with all the Objective C stuff? | 01:41 |
| lardman | brontide: is this what you're talking about? http://zxing.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/cpp/core/src/ | 01:41 |
| brontide | Yep | 01:42 |
| brontide | I believe that's the engine being used on the webpage | 01:42 |
| pupnik | lardman - did you see this? http://junk.kegetys.net/mobile_gaming.jpg | 01:42 |
| lardman | looks like they do processing to overcome any distortion | 01:42 |
| lardman | pupnik: :) | 01:42 |
| darkip_ | is there a guide for partitioning the internal memory on the n810 for setting up a dual boot? | 01:43 |
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| brontide | The other python library I saw also used opencv ( computer vision ) to do cleanup/distortion processing http://www.pedemonte.eu/pyqr/usage.html | 01:44 |
| jott | yeah opencv would be another option | 01:45 |
| brontide | ( once again QR codes ) | 01:45 |
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| lardman | can we just use "extern "C"" and use the library? | 01:46 |
| brontide | Oh... and in case you need some more fodder I made a bookmarklet. Just click on the bookmark and the current URL is translated into a QR code http://www.rit.albany.edu/~ew2193/test.html | 01:46 |
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| Binky | Hi everyone | 01:47 |
| Binky | Does anyone here have notion of apps porti | 01:47 |
| Binky | Porting* | 01:47 |
| jott | now i only have to see a qr code in rl :) | 01:47 |
| Binky | I'll pay for porting TuxGuitar or Jokosher | 01:48 |
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| lardman | jott: I seem to remember reading that it was being ported to C++ for Symbian, or something like that | 01:48 |
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| jott | lardman: zxing or what are you speaking of? | 01:49 |
| lardman | iPhone even; yes zxing | 01:49 |
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| jott | then that's probably objc ;p | 01:50 |
| brontide | Thanks to google generating QR codes is easy http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?chs=360x360&cht=qr&chld=L|0&chl=https%3A//wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2008 | 01:50 |
| lardman | http://code.google.com/p/zxing/wiki/FrequentlyAskedQuestions says both | 01:50 |
| jott | yeah in the end the actual algorithm shouldnt be that hard to port ;) | 01:51 |
| brontide | I think the C/C++ backend is targeted for iPhone ( hence the Obj-C ) | 01:52 |
| lardman | porting is boring though | 01:53 |
| lardman | but easier than making it up oneself (though not as interesting) | 01:53 |
| lardman | anyway, time to hit the sack for me | 01:53 |
| jott | yeah when it's only a matter of 30-40 mins its ok. everything longer is annoying ;) | 01:53 |
| derf | It's okay, I haven't been doing a strict port. | 01:53 |
| Binky | Anyone: will it work on tablets if i compile from source an app for another architecture like x86 | 01:53 |
| lardman | derf: as long as it works we'll be happy :) | 01:54 |
| derf | Though the zxing QR code support looks heavily based off the qrcodes project. | 01:54 |
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| lardman | night all | 01:55 |
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| Blafasel | hrhr.. German (yellow press) TV just talks about "Did we actually land on the moon?" ;-) | 01:56 |
| * Binky was looking for an answer | 01:57 | |
| Blafasel | Binky: If you compile for (the right) arm architecture and the dependencies re in place on the device: Should work | 01:57 |
| Binky | Blafasel, in Spain, the NASA anniversary notice took all this week until today | 01:58 |
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| Binky | Blafasel, i meant to compile for x86... I'll have to look furthr, thank you. | 01:59 |
| Blafasel | Binky: Interesting. This TV stuff is kind of supporting the "It never happened" pov. But - well.. TV over here is worse than reading slashdot at -1 ratings.. | 01:59 |
| Blafasel | Binky: Compiling for x86 on the tablet? Same thing: Would work (assuming the right and working toolchain, some patience etc.) | 02:00 |
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| Binky | Here tv instead of black and white is pink and yellow... | 02:00 |
| derf | I love how they completely stripped the copyright statement of the old Reed-Solmon coder they stole, then converted it into C++ with tons of dynamic allocation and other overhead, fixed at least one of the bugs, and then introduced more of their own. | 02:01 |
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| crashanddie | derf, I'm sorry, what are you talking about ? | 02:05 |
| crashanddie | derf, what was the source language, C++ ? | 02:06 |
| crashanddie | derf, so basically, lemme get this straight. You're bitching because someone took someone else's code, rewrote it in another language with a completely different memory allocation design, and with completely different bugs ? | 02:07 |
| crashanddie | I mean, REALLY ? | 02:07 |
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| crashanddie | I could understand you're whining about copyright infringement if there happened to be the same bugs, or the same design flaws | 02:08 |
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| derf | The original source language was C, possibly already translated into Java, depending on where they stole it from. | 02:11 |
| derf | But really, that part was just icing on the cake. | 02:11 |
| derf | I'm mostly laughing at the amount of effort put into to it to make it worse. | 02:11 |
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| crashanddie | well, I'm always very cautious when accusing someone from stealing code | 02:13 |
| crashanddie | not that I had to up till now | 02:13 |
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| derf | crashanddie: Having read both the original C and the Java port, I can assure you this was based on it. | 02:14 |
| lcuk | but was the code stolen and used in a closed proprietary app, or into another oss block? at worst the credit can be returned, i don't see it as a big deal | 02:14 |
| rm_you | jott / lardman|gone : yeah switching to python /QT would be nice | 02:14 |
| lcuk | and slow | 02:14 |
| derf | No, it wasn't a big deal, as I said, "Icing on the cake." | 02:14 |
| rm_you | and I am planning on doing Amazon web scraping for ISBN/UPC | 02:14 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, +1 | 02:14 |
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| crashanddie | I don't get the whole python thing, really | 02:15 |
| crashanddie | python will go down as one of the dead babies of the geeky boom | 02:15 |
| lcuk | i agree that oss code should be attributed, its good practice to respect the shoulders you stand upon | 02:15 |
| lcuk | no, python makes it very good to create and modify objects | 02:16 |
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| lcuk | but some code NEEDS low level | 02:16 |
| crashanddie | when prettiness becomes one of the selling arguments of a scripting/programming language, you know some guy got funky on crack | 02:16 |
| jott | lcuk: it's not only good practice but a legal issue. | 02:16 |
| derf | jott: A lot of people care a lot more about manners than laws. | 02:16 |
| lcuk | jott, like i said - put the notice back up | 02:16 |
| jott | derf: yeah well it is bad manner AND a copyright infrigment | 02:17 |
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| lcuk | although, technically jott - you are right, the author of a GPL app can sue the fraudulant authors of another gpl app | 02:17 |
| lcuk | but i wonder whether statutary damages would apply? | 02:18 |
| jott | lcuk: it's like copying a commercial binary. | 02:18 |
| lcuk | yes, gpl can be commercial | 02:18 |
| crashanddie | it's copyright infringement... Be it of a free piece of something or something you pay for shouldn't make any difference | 02:18 |
| jott | lcuk: no, stealing code, is like pirating a closed source app. | 02:19 |
| jott | that's my point. | 02:19 |
| jott | there is no big difference. not even in a legal sense. | 02:19 |
| crashanddie | this irc bouncer idea was genius :D | 02:19 |
| crashanddie | it's just awesome to have the exact same PMs on my NIT and laptop... No problems with copy/paste :D | 02:20 |
| lcuk | ok, agreed jott :) they shouldn't have done it | 02:20 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, I just made swapper half less useful :D | 02:20 |
| lcuk | :) oh, you are letting everyone logon to the bouncer? | 02:21 |
| crashanddie | heh | 02:22 |
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| crashanddie | no, not quite | 02:22 |
| derf | jott: Well, in all honesty, most lawyers evaluate legal issues based on the potential damages. | 02:22 |
| derf | And one open source project stealing from another is not likely to amount to much in the way of damages. | 02:23 |
| jott | derf: yeah well you won't get millions of dollar probably. | 02:23 |
| jott | but you can legally enforce it. | 02:23 |
| derf | I mean, it would take a real asshole to even go to court over that. | 02:23 |
| derf | And judges aren't generally interested in letting assholes extract their pound of flesh. | 02:24 |
| lcuk | depends upon if you want customer sales revenue, but what if you solved problems in your codebase to obtain grants and donations | 02:24 |
| jott | derf: why an asshole? i mean when the other guy uses some other license and does not react on friendly emails? | 02:24 |
| lcuk | using the code for google soc position | 02:24 |
| jott | and you want your code to be gpl.. | 02:25 |
| darkip_ | when I try to partition my n810's internal memory when I reboot i'm told the card is corrupted/unformatted, any ideas? | 02:25 |
| jott | i can't see why it would be a problem to legally enforce a copyright notice. | 02:25 |
| lcuk | this is in part related to gpl 3 now isnt it | 02:25 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk, I'd love to, but Freenode doesn't allow many clones, I'd have to walk up to Freenode on behalf of Maemo, don't think anyone's gonna let me do that :P | 02:25 |
| lcuk | oh, i thought you had a server with your own cloning/merging | 02:26 |
| derf | jott: Well, if the infriger doesn't bother to take any steps when confronted with the infringement, then yeah (in which case they are the asshole). | 02:26 |
| lcuk | give us all YOUR account, we can all solve the cut n paste problem, but that may introduce other issues | 02:26 |
| derf | But a normal person, when told, "You're infringing my copyright, please fix that or I'll sue you," will add an attribution. | 02:27 |
| lcuk | agreed derf, you have spotted something valid, mail them | 02:27 |
| jott | derf: well but that's a question of behaviour. | 02:27 |
| derf | jott: It's a question of risk. | 02:28 |
| jott | derf: why? | 02:28 |
| * lcuk has gpl license available in scrolly window in liqbase :) | 02:28 | |
| derf | It's very easy to strip off a copyright notice, and the risk that that will come back to bite you in any serious way is small. | 02:28 |
| derf | At worst, you add the attribution back in. | 02:28 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, I'm guessing each one would want one nickname, which still means one single connection to freenode even if it's for multiple guys connecting to my server (the bouncer)... But I dunno how many different nicknames Freenode allows... 2? 5? 10 ? So that's max 10 people I can host | 02:28 |
| lcuk | nahhh, we can all be crashanddie for a day | 02:29 |
| lcuk | on second thoughts, who would want to be you :P | 02:29 |
| crashanddie | exactly | 02:29 |
| derf | I suspect this goes on a whole lot more in the open source world than people think. | 02:29 |
| crashanddie | I mean... No one can bear this level of perfection :P | 02:29 |
| crashanddie | excepted me, of course | 02:29 |
| lcuk | derf, and i suspect it doesnt actually matter | 02:29 |
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| derf | (I suspect it also goes on even more in the proprietary world, but there it's harder to track) | 02:29 |
| crashanddie | derf, remember the issue of Microsoft using FOSS in their binaries ? | 02:30 |
| jott | derf: well if you change the license it can get a bit more difficult. | 02:30 |
| lcuk | its all expanding the gpl universe and a "please be polite" should be sufficient | 02:30 |
| derf | crashanddie: And 50 million other small embedded developers. | 02:30 |
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| derf | lcuk: Yes, this is what I'm saying. | 02:30 |
| jott | derf: and it is good manner not to sue anyone without contacting him. | 02:30 |
| crashanddie | not without ? | 02:31 |
| jott | heh | 02:31 |
| crashanddie | so it's good manner to sue someone and contact him ? | 02:31 |
| lcuk | or get some of your minions to descend upon their website and borl him over with OTT demands to attribute the author | 02:31 |
| jott | crashanddie: :P | 02:31 |
| derf | jott: Yes, only an asshole would do that, which was my original point. | 02:31 |
| lcuk | bowl^ | 02:31 |
| jott | crashanddie: dawn your native tongue :P | 02:31 |
| crashanddie | wut ? | 02:32 |
| crashanddie | native ? | 02:32 |
| lcuk | im vanishing again for a bit :) have code in my head | 02:32 |
| jott | derf: and my point is that the asshole is still in the right. | 02:32 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, btw, what do you run on ? | 02:32 |
| jott | (not making him less an asshole) | 02:32 |
| lcuk | what do you mean? | 02:32 |
| lcuk | computer wise? | 02:32 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, well, you keep having code in your head | 02:32 |
| crashanddie | what do you have running in your head ? x86 ? Armel ? SPARC ? | 02:33 |
| lcuk | ive had code in my head for years :) | 02:33 |
| derf | jott: Yes, but the legal system tends to frown on people who act like that. | 02:33 |
| lcuk | natively its 68k | 02:33 |
| crashanddie | ouch | 02:33 |
| lcuk | not really, 8 data and 8 address regs, a flat memory model | 02:33 |
| lcuk | 32bit native | 02:33 |
| lcuk | sounds just like the omap :) | 02:34 |
| jott | derf: hm? like all the riaa/music industry cases? :P | 02:34 |
| pupnik | um, do we have any decent whiteboarding with chat for N8x0? | 02:34 |
| derf | jott: Yes, something like that. | 02:34 |
| lcuk | pupnik, we will have hopefully soon | 02:34 |
| derf | jott: Or the SCO cases. | 02:35 |
| lcuk | though, chat might be better using the main keyboard still | 02:35 |
| lcuk | or vid | 02:35 |
| pupnik | that could be neat lcuk | 02:35 |
| lcuk | anyway, back later | 02:36 |
| pupnik | cheers | 02:36 |
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| pupnik | if I needed GPS, does someone know of a fast, barebones, cheap extra gps module to pair for n8x0? | 03:03 |
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| crashanddie | btw, guys | 03:13 |
| crashanddie | I just noticed something | 03:13 |
| crashanddie | teleportation | 03:13 |
| crashanddie | it exists | 03:13 |
| crashanddie | I'm flying out from Perpignan at 5:25 PM, landing in London at 5:30PM | 03:14 |
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| crashanddie | That's what, a thousand miles in 5 minutes ? | 03:14 |
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| jott | crashanddie: that's way too long for teleportation, it should be a matter of *seconds* :p | 03:18 |
| crashanddie | well, it's a start, isn't it ? | 03:18 |
| crashanddie | I mean, we're getting there | 03:18 |
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| nemo | jott: kjscmd wants dcop. was afraid of that | 04:44 |
| jott | nemo: you should take the kde4 version as i said probably after you started emerge ;) (which should use dbus etc) | 04:45 |
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| nemo | jott: dunno what portage you're using, only one version of kjsembed in standard. | 04:51 |
| jott | nemo: not really using gentoo anymore. got impatient ;), otherwise a great distro. | 04:52 |
| crashanddie | heh, same here | 04:52 |
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| crashanddie | Gentoo: Love hating it, Hate loving it | 04:53 |
| jott | nemo: it might also come with kdelibs .. | 04:54 |
| jott | don't know how granular the split-ebuilds are of kde4. | 04:54 |
| nemo | jott: ... well. kjsembed is its own ebuild. if you're recommending a newer version of it... dunno. | 04:56 |
| nemo | seems if it needs dcop, it needs dcop | 04:56 |
| nemo | un point c'est tout | 04:56 |
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| jott | nemo: in ubuntu it's also an extra package for kjsembed but the kde4 version is part of kdelibs4-bin. i assume gentoo might have an similar split-up. | 04:57 |
| jott | (but better ask in #gentoo or #gentoo-kde ;) | 04:57 |
| nemo | hm. so upgrade entire kde just to try out a javascript interpreter | 04:58 |
| nemo | I'll wait, thanks :-p | 04:58 |
| jott | hehe, that's what you get for building all from source :) | 04:58 |
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| nemo | jott: upgrading to new version of desktop is unpleasant in any distro | 05:40 |
| nemo | jott: especially if it has not been flagged stable | 05:40 |
| nemo | jott: my doing so on my mom's ubuntu system was a long and unpleasant battle | 05:41 |
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| nemo | and I didn't have a choice, there. some idjit broke the sound system pre-hardy | 05:41 |
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| ricko73 | is Diablo stable? | 07:27 |
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| rm_you | seems so | 07:27 |
| ricko73 | I'm assuming by now it should be, but wanted to check before upgrading | 07:27 |
| ricko73 | what I have on there has been good to be so far | 07:27 |
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| tank-man | ricko73, you can dual boot if you want to be safe | 07:57 |
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| kaie | hi. is it possible to view web sites with asian fonts on the n810 ? | 08:10 |
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| aspect | no included international calls or data | 08:21 |
| aspect | except vidafone live!# | 08:21 |
| aspect | $1/5min block for data within the cap | 08:22 |
| aspect | and they say n95 on the $49 plan in the front page but not in details | 08:22 |
| aspect | but the switching credit is > what optus is offering me | 08:23 |
| johnx | kaie, yes | 08:24 |
| aspect | oops wrong channel :P | 08:24 |
| aspect | sorry all | 08:24 |
| kaie | johnx, how? on a thai website my device only displays horizontal lines. install packages? | 08:24 |
| johnx | kaie, aaah, ok. you might need a thai font | 08:24 |
| johnx | can you tell me which website it is? | 08:24 |
| kaie | johnx, for example http://code.google.com/p/thai-l10n/ | 08:26 |
| johnx | I added a thai font and I'll see if that's enough to make it work | 08:30 |
| johnx | I added a collection of thai truetype fonts under /usr/share/fonts/thai and it seems to be working | 08:36 |
| johnx | At least it's displaying characters instead of the horizontal lines...but I can't read Thai so I'm not sure if it's perfect | 08:37 |
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| kaie | johnx, that sounds cool thanks for testing that! did you simply put .ttf files there? I will try to find some fonts | 08:40 |
| kaie | my linux system probably has some | 08:40 |
| johnx | kaie, yes. I did mkdir /usr/share/fonts/thai && cp some-thai-font.ttf /usr/share/fonts/thai && reboot | 08:42 |
| johnx | the reboot probably isn't necessary, but it seemed simplest at the time | 08:43 |
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| kaie | johnx, thx. it's exciting that it's that simple to fix. I confirm it works for me too | 09:05 |
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| kaie | reboot was not necessary | 09:17 |
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| trickie|work | morning | 09:31 |
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| bef0rd | hi. | 09:37 |
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| aquatix | morning all | 09:53 |
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| zap | here's the morning | 09:54 |
| zap | and my ssh key still doesnt work on garage :) | 09:54 |
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| zap | oops, actually it does | 09:58 |
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| atka^^ | good morning ^^ | 10:36 |
| freet15 | :) | 10:41 |
| bef0rd | hai 2 u | 10:43 |
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| *** hrw|gone is now known as hrw | 10:45 | |
| hrw | morning | 10:45 |
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| Dekaritae | http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-SD4-32GB-Flash-Memory/dp/B001C9P5TO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1217403591&sr=8-2 | 10:46 |
| atka^^ | nice.. | 10:48 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:58 |
| lbt | Top of the day to you all :) | 10:59 |
| RST38h | hello jaffa, hrw | 11:00 |
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| Khertan | Hi ! | 11:09 |
| bef0rd | ;_; | 11:09 |
| atka^^ | hi | 11:09 |
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| avs | If anyone will be at Black Hat or DEFCON in Las Vegas next week, and wants to meet with Nokia side maemo security guys, contact me. | 11:10 |
| Khertan | someone know the company Bravofly ? | 11:11 |
| bef0rd | no | 11:11 |
| bef0rd | I'm wondering, I guess we are all vulnerable to http://www.mozilla.org/security/announce/2008/mfsa2008-34.html with microb, right? | 11:12 |
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| Khertan | bef0rd > you could check on svn ...http://browser.garage.maemo.org/docs/build_howto.html | 11:17 |
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| k88 | anyone knows where i can find pangoft2 library ? | 11:21 |
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| Khertan | someone know easyjet company ? have already flight on his plane ? | 11:22 |
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| dannym | zap: hi :) | 11:23 |
| qwerty12 | In the UK, there's a whole pissing programme dedicated to easyjet :P | 11:23 |
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| Khertan | what do u mean by a whole pissing programme ? | 11:24 |
| Khertan | a tv show , | 11:24 |
| Khertan | ? | 11:24 |
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| qwerty12 | Yeah, a tv show :D. I just think it's pointless :) | 11:24 |
| dannym | zap: I checked the ZIP3 source code now; there is an "extra field" where they store the UTF-8 version of each name in the Table Of Contents... | 11:24 |
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| Khertan | arg ... airfrance have a late flight ... but easyjet not ... | 11:25 |
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| Khertan | AirFrance 294,51 Euros | 11:26 |
| Khertan | EasyJet 109,97 Euro | 11:26 |
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| Khertan | but the fly back departure is saturday at 18h10 | 11:27 |
| Khertan | hum ... | 11:28 |
| dannym | zap: however, they set the locale using 'loc = setlocale(LC_CTYPE, "en_US.UTF-8");' _within_ the ZIP program (WTF)... and only when that succeeds, then they use UTF-8... and that fails on the device (in addition to being weird) | 11:28 |
| dannym | zap: and in "UNZIP" they set the locale using 'loc = setlocale(LC_CTYPE, "en_GB.UTF-8");' _within_ the program... (yeah, that's a different one) | 11:29 |
| dannym | I don't know what they are smoking... | 11:29 |
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| Khertan | hum ... someone know berlin here ? | 11:35 |
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| Khertan | OUCH ! 177 Euros for two night at Berlin ! | 11:38 |
| dannym | Khertan: I was at the Chaos Communication Congress in Berlin once, why? | 11:39 |
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| Khertan | this was to know if there is other hotel than ibis, mercure(accord) in berlin a bit less cheaper | 11:41 |
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| dannym | less cheaper? ;) | 11:42 |
| Khertan | yeah ... more cheap :) | 11:42 |
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| dannym | Khertan: I paid EUR 80 per night too (at the Park Inn)... (though at the CCC there was a big dark room where you could sleep in your sleeping bag :D I'm somehow too old to survive that without cramps (yeah yeah - I <- old geezer ;))) | 11:43 |
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| Khertan | arf | 11:43 |
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| Khertan | the last time a paid a night in an hotel for 99 Euros it was an **** | 11:44 |
| Khertan | not an ibis hotel ! | 11:44 |
| dannym | I see... | 11:45 |
| Khertan | ouch more i search more it s high | 11:46 |
| Khertan | it ll be cheap to come back in france to sleep by plane :) | 11:47 |
| Khertan | Winter's Hôtel Berlin City Messe - 3* - Berlin .... 70 Euros | 11:48 |
| dannym | zap: there's a new option "-UN=UTF8" which forces UTF-8 names into the regular name field (and we all know which user will specify that option: nooobody :D) | 11:48 |
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| Khertan | huhu and it s more high to travel in train than plane | 11:50 |
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| crashanddie | more high ? | 11:54 |
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| rm_you | more expensive? | 11:54 |
| crashanddie | I think you'll be, in fact, quite higher in a plane than in a train :P | 11:55 |
| rm_you | but you can't smoke on planes | 11:55 |
| rm_you | so i think you could get higher on a train :) | 11:55 |
| crashanddie | can't smoke on trains either | 11:55 |
| Khertan | "which is a 2-star hotel sharing the same building and offering single and double rooms from 15€ and 28€. " | 11:55 |
| rm_you | lol | 11:55 |
| Khertan | hum when i look i get 28 Euros ! | 11:55 |
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| crashanddie | Khertan, you looking into coming to the summit ? | 11:56 |
| Khertan | yes | 11:56 |
| crashanddie | Khertan, well, if you want to train your german, or english a bit | 11:56 |
| Khertan | appliance accepted :) | 11:56 |
| crashanddie | www.couchsurfing.com | 11:56 |
| Khertan | héhé | 11:56 |
| Khertan | i'm really not a adept of couchsurfing | 11:56 |
| crashanddie | t'as obtenu le sponsoring de Nokia ? | 11:57 |
| Khertan | oui :) | 11:57 |
| crashanddie | oooooh, gg mon gars, gg :) | 11:57 |
| Khertan | rm_you > yes more expensive :) | 11:57 |
| Khertan | thx | 11:57 |
| zap | dannym: cool. I have posted some news on project page :) | 11:57 |
| Khertan | crashanddie > five minutes after i apply, i get the answer ... :) | 11:58 |
| zap | dannym: I would like you to have a look at the unzip-fm package, can you? | 11:58 |
| crashanddie | Anyway, I have a shitload to do, plane in 6 hours ! | 11:58 |
| crashanddie | Khertan, congrats :) | 11:58 |
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| Khertan | hostel is really expensive in Berlin ! | 12:00 |
| Khertan | specially near c-base | 12:00 |
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| Khertan | ouch ... when i go to the validation process ao hostel is now 280 Euros | 12:01 |
| Khertan | ! | 12:01 |
| Khertan | 248 | 12:01 |
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| crashanddie | damnit | 12:02 |
| crashanddie | the tubes to the UK are full, my phone calls won't get through | 12:02 |
| crashanddie | This is the 21st century for crying out loud, isn't there a satellite or whatever to help me out ? | 12:02 |
| inz | Use tha intartubes | 12:03 |
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| dannym | zap: cool :) | 12:04 |
| crashanddie | inz, the hell you think I'm doing ? | 12:04 |
| dannym | zap: yeah, I'll gladly have a look at the "unzip-fm" package *curious* :) | 12:05 |
| inz | crash, oh, right ;) | 12:05 |
| rm_you | Khertan: lol I had to sit on the edge of my seat for the better part of a month before they accepted me :P | 12:06 |
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| Khertan | rm_you > héhé | 12:06 |
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| Khertan | where do you find a bed ? | 12:07 |
| crashanddie | usually in a bedroom | 12:07 |
| Khertan | lloll ... | 12:08 |
| Khertan | i would say which hostel ? | 12:08 |
| rm_you | I am couchsurfing ^_^ | 12:08 |
| crashanddie | then just ask "where are you staying ?" | 12:08 |
| Khertan | :) | 12:09 |
| crashanddie | rm_you, haha :D Sweet | 12:09 |
| rm_you | with the almighty jott :P | 12:09 |
| crashanddie | I bet you're squatting in jott's place | 12:09 |
| crashanddie | Haha :D | 12:09 |
| rm_you | yeah | 12:09 |
| crashanddie | I had an awesome chat with him last night | 12:09 |
| rm_you | oh? | 12:09 |
| crashanddie | starting at 2:20, ending at 3:55 :D | 12:10 |
| rm_you | that is one hell of a chat :P | 12:10 |
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| Khertan | rah ... can't understand http://www.hotelpensionberlin.de/ ... | 12:10 |
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| dannym | Khertan: I can speak German and read it to you :) | 12:11 |
| rm_you | i totally read hotel-penis-on-berlin >_> | 12:11 |
| dannym | hehehe | 12:11 |
| dannym | yeah :) | 12:11 |
| rm_you | *doubletake* OH --pension-- | 12:12 |
| dannym | zap: I think we should customize the "setlocale" call in "zip"... it will fail like it is now... do you have a scratchbox handy? (I'm at work so I don't right now) | 12:12 |
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| Khertan | dannym > if i can't understand their page ... i think i ll have some problem to communicate on i was in the hostel :) | 12:13 |
| spcui | how to set the shortcut on N810? just like <ctrl>s | 12:13 |
| dannym | zap: I'd like to know what the result of "setlocale(LC_CTYPE, "en_US.UTF-8")" is when running it on the device :) | 12:13 |
| Khertan | but thx | 12:14 |
| rm_you | i need $5000 | 12:14 |
| rm_you | >_> | 12:14 |
| crashanddie | Khertan, DZ == doppelzimmer == chambre double, EZ == eizelzimmer == chambre simple, no idea what MZ is | 12:14 |
| dannym | Khertan: well the page is a meta-page so it doesn't mean the actual hostel won't understand you just that the meta-page designer was lazy :) | 12:14 |
| crashanddie | einzel** | 12:14 |
| rm_you | moozlezimmer == chambre cow :P | 12:15 |
| Khertan | lol | 12:15 |
| dannym | "MZ" is multiple (more than 3) beds ("Mehrbettzimmer") | 12:15 |
| crashanddie | oh, ok | 12:15 |
| rm_you | hey, i know all those words :P | 12:15 |
| rm_you | yay for highschool german | 12:16 |
| dannym | nice :) | 12:16 |
| crashanddie | Same here | 12:16 |
| crashanddie | + 1 month in Hamburg | 12:16 |
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| rm_you | everyone was like, take spanish, at least that will be somewhat useful | 12:16 |
| rm_you | well, WHAT NOW, bitches!? | 12:16 |
| rm_you | ^_^ | 12:16 |
| crashanddie | haha | 12:16 |
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| glass | spain has cheap coke | 12:17 |
| crashanddie | I'd love to see someone go to Berlin "Ola, que tal ?" | 12:17 |
| Khertan | i ve stay one month in Ravensburg ... but this isn't a reason to speak the language :) | 12:17 |
| Khertan | :) | 12:17 |
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| Khertan | i think it ll be a bad idea to find an hostel to far away from c-base ... it ll have more chance to be lost :) | 12:19 |
| * Khertan think to download map of berlin on the n810 | 12:19 | |
| Khertan | :) | 12:19 |
| crashanddie | "Hola, tiene usted algún cuarto?" "Por supuesto tenemos cuartos, nosotros somos un hotel!" | 12:19 |
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| lardman | derf: are you about? | 12:20 |
| rm_you | Ack! | 12:20 |
| lcuk | <speak accent="northern"> can i have a room please</speak> | 12:20 |
| crashanddie | translation: "Hi, do you have any rooms ?" "Of course we have rooms, this is a hotel !" | 12:21 |
| lcuk | mornin folks \o | 12:21 |
| rm_you | Ich spreche Spanish nicht! (stimmt?) | 12:21 |
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| * lcuk could possibly ask for a kebab in german | 12:21 | |
| Khertan | lol | 12:21 |
| dannym | <speak accent="lolcat">can I haz room plz?</speak> | 12:21 |
| lardman | Ein Kebab bitte | 12:21 |
| crashanddie | Ich kan gein Spanien sprechen ? | 12:21 |
| dannym | kein* :) | 12:21 |
| rm_you | kein? | 12:21 |
| rm_you | yeah | 12:21 |
| crashanddie | typo :-° | 12:22 |
| rm_you | kan == kanne? | 12:22 |
| Khertan | can | 12:22 |
| rm_you | shortened? | 12:22 |
| rm_you | right | 12:22 |
| lcuk | ein geeros pitta bitte? (my god, my accent is bad even on irc) | 12:22 |
| dannym | kann = can | 12:22 |
| crashanddie | or we can just play our usual assholes | 12:22 |
| rm_you | kann is shortened to kan for the "ich" form, not made "kanne"? | 12:22 |
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| dannym | nom that's a typo too :) | 12:23 |
| crashanddie | Walk up to the desk, "hey bro, I need to crash, gimme some keys and a room, hear me ? Awesome" | 12:23 |
| Khertan | ein Bien bitte | 12:23 |
| dannym | no,* | 12:23 |
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| Khertan | :) | 12:23 |
| rm_you | kan kannt kanst? | 12:23 |
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| dannym | ich kann, du kannst, er kann, sie kann, es kann | 12:23 |
| lcuk | ive been thinking about this server for tablet/real communication: is there anything wrong with using an irc channel for communication: send strokes as text commands and use a custom client on device and big pc to decode the stroke messages as they occur | 12:23 |
| lardman | rm_you: it's "Ich kann" | 12:23 |
| rm_you | ah ok | 12:23 |
| Khertan | lol | 12:23 |
| lardman | lcuk: like a bot master? | 12:24 |
| * rm_you needs to do more german study anyway | 12:24 | |
| crashanddie | lcuk, if IRC isn't too much hassle | 12:24 |
| lcuk | lardman, no just a custom client on the tablet for interactive whiteboard and chat | 12:24 |
| rm_you | lcuk: things like that are done a lot in MMO plugins | 12:24 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, also, IRC can't work on a node only base, it needs a server... | 12:24 |
| lcuk | freenode | 12:24 |
| lardman | what about extending one of the IM clients, then it might be usable with other platforms too | 12:25 |
| rm_you | lcuk: you wouldnt actually want to use IRC, but a custom message hub seems like it makes sense | 12:25 |
| crashanddie | I mean... Who here never coded a poor man's IRC in 2 hours ? | 12:25 |
| dannym | lcuk: I remember that someone wrote a vector dooding plugin for XChat that used normal IRC messages too :) | 12:25 |
| lcuk | why not irc - the servers are there, they have the message model in place | 12:25 |
| rm_you | crashanddie: took me 3-4 for my java client >_> I lose | 12:25 |
| lcuk | strokes lines can be short items: dannym that sounds about right | 12:25 |
| lardman | rm_you: does the datamatrix code expect its input to be b&w and correctly aligned, or does it try to do this? | 12:25 |
| crashanddie | rm_you, no need for a client, just a small threaded server, and telnet | 12:26 |
| rm_you | lardman: expects full color | 12:26 |
| rm_you | lardman: and it takes care of alignment | 12:26 |
| Khertan | 3,2 km | 12:26 |
| rm_you | lardman: literally all we have to do is pass the image directly from the camera to the library and it will work | 12:26 |
| Khertan | hum ... not so bad ... 45min to walk | 12:26 |
| crashanddie | anyway, 'later | 12:26 |
| lardman | rm_you: ok, you said you were having troubles though | 12:26 |
| rm_you | lardman: i just dont understand the image storage formats | 12:26 |
| lcuk | cya later | 12:26 |
| lardman | lcuk: bye | 12:26 |
| dannym | lcuk: bye :) | 12:26 |
| rm_you | lardman: it said stuff about pixel bit order and i was like, wut? | 12:26 |
| lcuk | rm_you, is this the datamatrix library you asked me about? | 12:26 |
| rm_you | lcuk: yes | 12:27 |
| * lcuk isnt goin yet | 12:27 | |
| lardman | :) | 12:27 |
| dannym | hehe | 12:27 |
| dannym | crashanddie is :) | 12:27 |
| rm_you | lol | 12:27 |
| lardman | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2008-07-31.log.html search for "QR code" | 12:27 |
| lardman | there's an image and a website which will process it using zxing, it's pretty impressive | 12:27 |
| rm_you | crashanddie: it was a java client because i wanted people to be able to use it straight from a webstart thing | 12:28 |
| crashanddie | dannym, I'm what , | 12:28 |
| crashanddie | ? | 12:28 |
| crashanddie | oh, right | 12:28 |
| lcuk | goin | 12:28 |
| crashanddie | nevermind | 12:28 |
| crashanddie | cheers | 12:28 |
| crashanddie | though, thanks lardman and dannym, that helped pumping up my ego :D | 12:29 |
| dannym | hehehe | 12:29 |
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| lcuk | are you powering down your server before you leave france? | 12:29 |
| crashanddie | no, why would I ? | 12:30 |
| * rm_you is investigating getting a 4U server chassis with 5+ hotswap drive bays for his new RAID | 12:31 | |
| RST38h | rm_you: BTW, PackRat appears to be down | 12:32 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, I'm going to have to do a network/vpn switch at some point though, so I'll be disconnected a few times, probably | 12:32 |
| * qwerty12_N800 actually prefers microsoft update compared to this 258 update i'm installing in ubuntu | 12:32 | |
| rm_you | RST38h: oh? | 12:32 |
| crashanddie | well, the server will be disconnected/unavailable a few times | 12:32 |
| * lcuk really wants to RAID some 810s together | 12:32 | |
| lcuk | lol crashanddie you running cat5 across the channel? | 12:33 |
| dannym | can someone do me a favour and compile <http://pastebin.com/mf26c870> to a N8xx executable binary file? | 12:33 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, the server stays here | 12:33 |
| rm_you | RST38h: running the crawler... | 12:33 |
| rm_you | i wonder if my cron script exploded | 12:34 |
| rm_you | there, looks to be fixing it | 12:34 |
| qwerty12_N800 | dannym: find a way of installing sbox :p. i'd do it but i just reformatted my ubuntu install :) | 12:35 |
| rm_you | RST38h: ah, bug | 12:35 |
| rm_you | RST38h: it isn't sorting package numbers correctly | 12:35 |
| inz | dannym, http://inz.fi/setlocale | 12:35 |
| rm_you | example: Download 0.9-2, 0.8-1, 0.14-3, 0.11-7 | 12:35 |
| rm_you | it thinks 0.9-2 is the newest | 12:36 |
| rm_you | 0.14-3 is the newest | 12:36 |
| RST38h | rm_you: I guess we have to use a different sorting function | 12:36 |
| RST38h | Lemme check... | 12:36 |
| rm_you | yeah :/ | 12:36 |
| rm_you | may have to write a custom sort | 12:36 |
| rm_you | or try to steal the ACTUAL sorting function from apt :P | 12:36 |
| RST38h | rm_you: I think it comes from SQL ORDER BY statement | 12:36 |
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| RST38h | Hopefully, MySQL has some modifier to do sorting numerically | 12:37 |
| rm_you | yeah tho it isnt necessarily numeric >_> | 12:37 |
| rm_you | apt does odd sorting | 12:37 |
| RST38h | it is numeric all right, when a digit occurs in the string | 12:37 |
| rm_you | it has to understand things like 3.12-2osso3 | 12:38 |
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| rm_you | 2.0.0+cvs20040908+mp4v2+bmp-0ubuntu6maemo1 | 12:40 |
| rm_you | >_> | 12:40 |
| dannym | inz: thanks :) (though that was "text/plain", I got the downloader to override it though :D) | 12:40 |
| dannym | as I thought, a locale called "en_US.UTF-8" doesn't exist on the N800 :( | 12:40 |
| lcuk | dannym, if you have other small things like this to compile, its fairly simple to install gcc directly on the device, it might not be ideal for big projects, but is ideal for this kind of thing | 12:40 |
| lardman | hmm, looks like libdmtx does scale/shear and barrel distortion compensation | 12:41 |
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| rm_you | lcuk: was gonna ask, how difficult was that? | 12:41 |
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| rm_you | lardman: yes it is very nice | 12:41 |
| dannym | lcuk: really? cool... | 12:41 |
| dannym | lcuk: how? :) | 12:41 |
| lardman | rm_you: all good | 12:41 |
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| lcuk | add the sdk repo - add gcc and keep adding -dev libraries as required | 12:41 |
| lcuk | its easy | 12:41 |
| rm_you | lardman: i tested using the camera application, took pictures and ran them through their utility programs, they decoded perfectly | 12:41 |
| rm_you | even the complex ones | 12:41 |
| lardman | rm_you: I was just looking at similar scale/shear removal code in zxing | 12:41 |
| dannym | how do I find out which encoding the locales in "locale -a" have? | 12:42 |
| lardman | but...? | 12:42 |
| qwerty12_N800 | ~lart accesskit | 12:42 |
| lardman | encoding is the issue? | 12:42 |
| rm_you | lardman: so if we can just get the image data to fit into their data format | 12:42 |
| rm_you | yeah >_> | 12:42 |
| rm_you | not sure how to do that | 12:42 |
| lardman | ok, cool | 12:42 |
| rm_you | they are very vague about the data format stuff <_< | 12:42 |
| lcuk | rm_you, im waving my walking stick @ you \o | 12:42 |
| lardman | :) | 12:42 |
| rm_you | at least, for as little i know about it | 12:42 |
| rm_you | lol lcuk | 12:42 |
| lcuk | i went through it didnt i :P | 12:43 |
| lcuk | did i actually give you a pastebin with it? | 12:43 |
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| rm_you | lcuk: yeah | 12:43 |
| rm_you | lcuk: it doesnt quite work tho | 12:43 |
| rm_you | lcuk: more like, what it DOES is segfault | 12:43 |
| rm_you | so. >_> | 12:43 |
| lardman | the PDF-417 decoder expects an aligned binary image, so I'm looking to see where to grab the alignment code & Booleanisation code from | 12:43 |
| RST38h | rm_you: I think whatever is not numeric it sorts normally | 12:43 |
| lcuk | well you couldv said and i wouldv talked with you then and got it workin | 12:43 |
| rm_you | lcuk: lol | 12:44 |
| dannym | qwerty12_N800: I'd like to find a way to install sbox but unfortunately this is a computer in a bank (as in financial backbone) and they don't take it kindly when I install weird apps on it :) | 12:44 |
| rm_you | lcuk: you were busy :P | 12:44 |
| lcuk | most likely it will nbeed to run the _alloc type function | 12:44 |
| lcuk | im always busy :P | 12:44 |
| rm_you | heh | 12:44 |
| rm_you | was trying not to bother you, while you were excited about your new liqbase features :P | 12:44 |
| lcuk | \o/ yer i think i can build a ui now | 12:45 |
| rm_you | i am also busy running a D&D campaign <_< | 12:45 |
| rm_you | entirely unrelated :P | 12:45 |
| * lcuk is a levvel 70 c coding mage | 12:45 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | dannym: ahh, I wouldn't attempt it then :p. does your bank use *nix? | 12:45 |
| lcuk | -v of course | 12:45 |
| lcuk | bbl | 12:46 |
| dannym | qwerty12_N800: hmm, mostly Solaris for the important machines and for Windows XP the dumb terminals... | 12:46 |
| rm_you | bbl as well | 12:46 |
| rm_you | well, slightly AFK, beep me if you need me | 12:46 |
| rm_you | still in the same room | 12:46 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | dannym: ahh. the bank i'm with used to use nt. i think they upgraded to xp, heh | 12:47 |
| dannym | qwerty12_N800: hehe, yeah, they tend to stay on the tried-and-true versions for a loooong time... I saw a lot of Cobol programs still in use in the data center :) | 12:48 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Lol | 12:49 |
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| lardman | rm_you: in the test code, do you actually set the height & width of the data in the image structure? | 12:49 |
| lardman | you've got a couple of comments: //image.width=width; (which should be //image->width=width; I think) | 12:50 |
| qwerty12_N800 | X-Fade: what happens if I format the partition my gpg + ssh keys are on? Can I generate a new pair or am I SOL? | 12:51 |
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| Khertan | who is responsible to validate the amount of the sponsorship ? | 12:52 |
| hrw | quil? | 12:53 |
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| hrw | someone can suggest good notetaking application for maemo? other then standard Notes or liqbase | 12:53 |
| Khertan | 374.72 Euros TTC Hostel + Plane | 12:53 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hrw: xournal? | 12:54 |
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| hrw | qwerty12_N800: ah.. forgot to add this to the list of 'please ignore' | 12:54 |
| qwerty12_N800 | never used it but i hear maemopad+ is pretty decent | 12:54 |
| Khertan | hrw > :) | 12:55 |
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| * qwerty12_N800 goes to install kde4. i know now installing kubuntu-desktop isn't a good thing to do before that :/ | 12:56 | |
| hrw | qwerty12_N800: going to kde4 on desktop? | 12:57 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hrw: yeah. i hope that tablet port is released soon though... | 12:58 |
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| dannym | qwerty12_N800: hmm? for the SSH keys you can just generate a new pair (for the public key authentication) :) | 13:15 |
| dannym | qwerty12_N800: though how do you get it to the destination server... if you have password auth, it's fine... otherwise root needs to put the new key up for you.. | 13:15 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | dannym: thanks, it's for the extras stuff. maybe X-Fade can help me out with it :) | 13:21 |
| liri | I'm unable to get my hands on an N800 | 13:21 |
| liri | though I might be able to get an N770 | 13:22 |
| inz | "There is no N770" | 13:22 |
| liri | so you don't recommend settling for it? not even just for playing around? | 13:23 |
| dannym | *points at his Nokia 770* "You don't exist!" :-> | 13:23 |
| dannym | nah, the name was without the "N" because it wasn't part of the N series :) | 13:23 |
| lardman | s/N770/770 | 13:23 |
| liri | ahh | 13:23 |
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| liri | how does it compare with the n800 in terms of speed? | 13:24 |
| liri | is it considerable? | 13:24 |
| dannym | liri: I liked the Nokia 770... actually the keys on the side are better (bigger) on the 770 than on the N800... :) | 13:24 |
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| liri | if you like it so much I can buy it and sell it to you for the n800 you have :) | 13:25 |
| dannym | liri: it's a little bit slower (not that much for normal stuff - though when doing video you'll notice it) and it has (too) little RAM ... | 13:25 |
| dannym | liri: I have one already, but good try ;) | 13:26 |
| Khertan | 770, n800, n810 | 13:26 |
| Khertan | carrefull Nokia 810 exist too :) | 13:26 |
| Khertan | http://www.nokia.fr/A4363274 | 13:26 |
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| dannym | liri: but is the 770 Hacker edition OS still alive? if not, you'll not get OS updates... <http://os2007on770.garage.maemo.org/> | 13:27 |
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| liri | n810 though is pricey for me to get | 13:29 |
| liri | yeah I don't want the 770, I need to get that n800 | 13:29 |
| dannym | (as you can see, the buttons are bigger on the Nokia 770 :) I have no idea what happened with the N800 buttons? Ran out of space? ;)) | 13:29 |
| liri | what do you do with the 770? | 13:30 |
| MangoFusion | have they stopped selling n800's? | 13:30 |
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| crashanddie | why is it everytime you're urgently waiting for an email, the only ones that get through are "Breakthrough in male enhancing !" | 13:31 |
| liri | MangoFusion: well they stopped manufacturing it and it's almost out of every store. and when it is available it's about $270 | 13:31 |
| liri | lol crashanddie | 13:31 |
| MangoFusion | makes me somewhat glad i still have mine | 13:31 |
| dannym | liri: since I have the N800 too the 770 is gathering dust when I'm not borrowing it around :) before that, E-book reading, mp3... nothing much else (runs out of RAM quickly) | 13:31 |
| MangoFusion | ;) | 13:32 |
| liri | yep | 13:32 |
| dannym | lending* | 13:32 |
| MangoFusion | i'd sell mine, but i still use it. and it still works. ;) | 13:33 |
| aspect | keep an eye on ebay, they come up fairly regularly still. AU retail price was closer to $350 and I picked up my 800 2 weeks ago for $200 | 13:34 |
| liri | aspect: $200 but without shipping, that will be closer to $50 more for me | 13:34 |
| hrw | liri: avoid 770 unless you get it for less then 20 usd | 13:35 |
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| aspect | liri: shipping to where? I guess you're saying it's unlikely you can buy it locally? | 13:36 |
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| liri | aspect: yes I'm unable to buy it locally. Shipping to Israel. | 13:36 |
| liri | hrw: I agree | 13:37 |
| hrw | I have my 770 somewhere but I got it for best available price | 13:38 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Has anyone done a gtkperf in diablo? | 13:55 |
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| Khertan_n810 | huhu | 13:57 |
| Khertan_n810 | mcontacts google sync work ! | 13:57 |
| Khertan_n810 | i need to make an gui now | 13:58 |
| Khertan_n810 | i hope it will be ready for the summit | 13:58 |
| hrw | Khertan: does it supports attenders, alarms, recurrences? | 14:02 |
| Khertan_n810 | contacts ... | 14:03 |
| Khertan_n810 | not agenda | 14:03 |
| hrw | ah.. I misread | 14:03 |
| Khertan_n810 | calendar don t suppor yet alarm | 14:04 |
| Khertan_n810 | but recurrences yes | 14:04 |
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| hrw | attenders? | 14:04 |
| hrw | colours? | 14:04 |
| Khertan_n810 | what is it ? | 14:05 |
| hrw | attenders? people which are parts of event | 14:05 |
| Khertan_n810 | ah not yet :) | 14:06 |
| hrw | if I add event 'meeting with David' I want to add link to David contact inside | 14:06 |
| Khertan_n810 | as mContacts isn t finish :) | 14:06 |
| hrw | Khertan: mcontacts use eds to contact with maemo contacts base? | 14:07 |
| Khertan_n810 | no | 14:07 |
| hrw | ok, then I forget about it | 14:08 |
| hrw | ;D | 14:08 |
| Khertan_n810 | but a sync is planned with eds | 14:08 |
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| Jaffa | Oooh, logo winner. | 14:08 |
| Khertan_n810 | but i don t like eds | 14:08 |
| Khertan_n810 | jaffa > constest is end ? | 14:08 |
| hrw | Khertan: will you support making calls/chats from mcontacts? | 14:08 |
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| Khertan_n810 | hrw > of course | 14:09 |
| hrw | any preliminary betas? | 14:09 |
| Khertan_n810 | not yet | 14:10 |
| Jaffa | Khertan_n810: yup. http://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Maemo.org_logo_contest_glaoliver_1.png is the winner. | 14:10 |
| Khertan_n810 | there is no ui | 14:10 |
| Khertan_n810 | jaffa > there was no vote ? | 14:10 |
| * Jaffa isn't a big fan - but that could just be the gradient | 14:10 | |
| Jaffa | Khertan_n810: There was a call for debate on maemo-community but there was never going to be a vote. | 14:11 |
| hrw | I wonder when maemo.org will get modem upgrade.... | 14:11 |
| qwerty12_N800 | ^ | 14:11 |
| qwerty12_N800 | the speed of maemo.org is a serious pisstake. | 14:12 |
| Khertan_n810 | ouch i don't like the logo | 14:12 |
| jott | add a "beta" to it and we have an average web2.0 logo :P | 14:12 |
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| Khertan_n810 | lol | 14:12 |
| wnd | and what's with this fixation to æ? | 14:13 |
| Khertan_n810 | i don t like that too | 14:14 |
| RST38h | hrw: Or just feed packet-pumping hamster bigger carrots | 14:15 |
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| Khertan_n810 | hum opodo has very bad comments | 14:16 |
| Khertan_n810 | i should buy from someone else | 14:16 |
| crashanddie | Khertan_n810, they had to steal from another language in order to make theirs more interesting :P | 14:17 |
| crashanddie | Kinda sad, really, that you had to take it from the french :P | 14:18 |
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| Khertan_n810 | crashanddie > i prefer to buy flight in french in this case i don t need to take an other "assurance" | 14:19 |
| crashanddie | insurance | 14:19 |
| Khertan_n810 | :) thx | 14:19 |
| crashanddie | so where you from, in France ? | 14:20 |
| Khertan_n810 | yes | 14:20 |
| crashanddie | no, where ? | 14:20 |
| Khertan_n810 | france to berlin :) maemo summit :) | 14:20 |
| crashanddie | ... | 14:20 |
| crashanddie | I'm asking you where do you live in France ? | 14:20 |
| Khertan_n810 | Ah sorry :) | 14:21 |
| crashanddie | Lille, Paris, Marseille, Lyon, Montpellier, Bordeau, Pau ? | 14:21 |
| Khertan_n810 | near paris | 14:21 |
| crashanddie | ok | 14:21 |
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| Khertan_n810 | in fact 60km in the north of paris | 14:21 |
| crashanddie | Hmm | 14:21 |
| crashanddie | This song comes to mind... Parigo, tête de veau | 14:21 |
| Khertan_n810 | lol | 14:22 |
| crashanddie | I don't know how it goes after that, though | 14:22 |
| Khertan_n810 | et la suite ? | 14:22 |
| crashanddie | parisien, tête de chien ? | 14:22 |
| Khertan_n810 | mairseillais enculé :) | 14:22 |
| Khertan_n810 | it s depends which football club you support :) | 14:22 |
| crashanddie | I don't support any | 14:22 |
| Khertan_n810 | me too | 14:22 |
| Khertan_n810 | seeing guys ruuning after a ball isn't very pleasant | 14:23 |
| Khertan_n810 | s/pleasant/enjoying | 14:23 |
| crashanddie | well, as much as I like the sport, I can't stand the french culture around it | 14:23 |
| Khertan_n810 | there is culture in france ? | 14:24 |
| Khertan_n810 | never see it :) | 14:24 |
| crashanddie | I love watching a good world cup, or even the euro, but I'm really not all that interested in having some club being insulting and stuff towards another | 14:24 |
| crashanddie | Khertan, [boy] "Alors Didier, c'est qui qui va gagner l'Euro 2008 ?" [deschamps] "Bha la France bien entendu" [boy] "Alors Djibril, c'est qui qui va gagner l'Euro 2008 ?"... | 14:25 |
| crashanddie | I hate how the French become so obsessed with themselves during each international cup | 14:26 |
| crashanddie | be it football, rugby, tennis, basketball | 14:26 |
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| crashanddie | everytime the French manage to get somewhere, even at the beginning, it's like they're going to own the whole world | 14:26 |
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| crashanddie | Did you watch the Eurovision ? Seriously, the two commentators were just pure racists... Talking how the eastern countries were helping each other out, and not voting for France, cuz else they wouldn't have any vote | 14:27 |
| crashanddie | They didn't pay any attention to what the hosts were saying in between two songs, they were just babbling about how hot some chick was | 14:28 |
| crashanddie | And completely disregarding the fact the French singer was utter bollocks | 14:28 |
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| crashanddie | I mean, the French really ought to take their head out of their asses, and start looking around, they always yell at how they hate the Americans, and the rest of the world, the truth is, they're not much better than the sad picture they keep recalling when thinking of the states | 14:30 |
| crashanddie | [/rant] | 14:30 |
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| derf | lardman: Pong. | 14:33 |
| lardman | derf: I was going to ask if your QR re-write is a complete re-write? | 14:34 |
| derf | lardman: For the most part. | 14:35 |
| lardman | In which case, have you implemented the routines to overcome image distortion? | 14:35 |
| derf | Yes. | 14:35 |
| bilboed-pi | which hotel are most people staying at for the Maemo Summit ? | 14:36 |
| derf | At least through the binarization process. | 14:36 |
| Khertan | re | 14:36 |
| derf | I'm in the middle of the geometric distortion part. | 14:36 |
| lardman | I'd like to use them for the 1D stacked barcode if possible, rather than re-writing it for each type of barcode | 14:36 |
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| derf | lardman: Yes, that would be a good idea. | 14:36 |
| derf | I'm not sure how well they work, but they're at least there and ready to be improved. | 14:36 |
| lardman | the zxing code does some nice re-use, with common routines, etc. | 14:36 |
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| Khertan | crashanddie> :) | 14:37 |
| derf | lardman: Right, obviously we want to move in that direction. | 14:37 |
| lardman | likewise binarization can probably be shared | 14:37 |
| derf | I'll try to get that part cleand up and separated out and into svn today. | 14:37 |
| lardman | cool, thanks | 14:37 |
| derf | There's definitely still something wrong with the Wiener filter I got from this paper, but the rest of it should work. | 14:38 |
| Khertan | bilboed-pi>http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2008/Accommodation | 14:38 |
| lardman | how expensive is that filtering? | 14:38 |
| lcuk | derf, get a smaller wiener and it should pass through the filter | 14:38 |
| bilboed-pi | Khertan, thx :) | 14:38 |
| Khertan | bilboed-pi > i m currently searching where to sleep :) | 14:39 |
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| derf | lcuk: Tee-hee. | 14:39 |
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| lcuk | khertan, take a maemo branded cardboard box | 14:39 |
| Khertan | lcuk > cardboard box ? | 14:40 |
| lardman | where do we get Maemo branded casrdboard boxes, or T-shirts? | 14:40 |
| lcuk | for sleeping in | 14:40 |
| Khertan | lol | 14:40 |
| tigert | the branded box came with your device | 14:40 |
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| lcuk | lardman, i dont think they are ready yet, but doesnt cafe press let you upload any image? | 14:40 |
| tigert | its a bit crammed though unfortunately, but that is to save the environment from excess trash burden | 14:40 |
| lardman | lcuk: no idea | 14:40 |
| derf | lardman: 12 multiplies, 27 adds, one division per pixel. | 14:41 |
| lardman | tigert: it has plastic cover iirc, so we can even see out while in there | 14:41 |
| tigert | lardman: yeh, and it protects from rain! | 14:41 |
| lcuk | http://www.cafepress.com/cp/customize/ | 14:41 |
| lardman | derf: ok | 14:41 |
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| derf | But that's not the only filter. | 14:41 |
| Khertan | bilboed-pi > i think i ll go here : http://www.generatorhostels.com/Berlin/ | 14:41 |
| lcuk | derf, how many memory accesses? | 14:41 |
| lcuk | ie, does it require local adjacent pixels | 14:42 |
| derf | lcuk: 27 or so. | 14:42 |
| bilboed-pi | Khertan, damn, I'm really confused. What's the exact venue of the maemo summit ? Is it the same venue as for OSIM ? | 14:42 |
| derf | lcuk: It computes mean and variance in a 3x3 area, and then the average variance in a 3x3 area. | 14:42 |
| lcuk | derf, ouch! is it a full 3*3 cube of pixels to filter the centre element? | 14:43 |
| lcuk | lol yer | 14:43 |
| derf | Actually, 27 is probably high. | 14:43 |
| derf | 18 is closer to the mark. | 14:43 |
| derf | At least for reads. | 14:43 |
| Khertan | hum ... i ll made my own tshirt with my own maemo logo ! | 14:43 |
| Khertan | http://khertan.net/poubelle/logo1.png | 14:44 |
| lcuk | Khertan, thats the idea - turn up to the summit with alternative designs, ie NOT the winning entry | 14:44 |
| derf | But, anyway, I'm getting better results I think just disabling that stage. | 14:44 |
| lardman | filtering should be swappable | 14:44 |
| derf | But it's certainly along the lines of the most expensive filtering I'd want to do. | 14:44 |
| lardman | zxing tries/tests for an ideal case first, then starts doing more bits and bobs | 14:44 |
| derf | So I figured it'd be a good starting point for testing on the device, to see how slow it actually is. | 14:45 |
| lcuk | yes, modular choice - you can see how different algos perform | 14:45 |
| lardman | derf: yep | 14:45 |
| lcuk | wd40(); | 14:45 |
| * lcuk is doing that for multitouch | 14:45 | |
| lardman | median threshold, rolling average (a la current 1D code) and histogram binning should all be available for each method | 14:46 |
| lardman | sharpen filter? | 14:46 |
| lcuk | cant we just use gstreamer prebuilt filters for this - since the data is coming through gstreamer... | 14:46 |
| lardman | possibly | 14:47 |
| lardman | do they exist? | 14:47 |
| lcuk | just add another filter layer | 14:47 |
| lcuk | well you use one now | 14:47 |
| rm_you | lardman: dunno, a lot of those comments were VERY outdated, lol | 14:47 |
| rm_you | ick, i think there were much better logos as well <_< ah well | 14:47 |
| lcuk | can some1 give me link to barcode project svn | 14:48 |
| lcuk | please | 14:48 |
| * lcuk thought it was on desktop but its gone | 14:48 | |
| rm_you | https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemo-barcode/ | 14:48 |
| lcuk | ta :) | 14:48 |
| rm_you | that is generated from my brain via my fingers :P so hopefully it is right | 14:48 |
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| bilboed-pi | Khertan, booked at the ibis berlin mitte | 14:51 |
| lardman | lcuk: it would be nicer to be able to switch filter at will, unless the GStreamer ones are especially special | 14:53 |
| rm_you | ack it got late again before i noticed <_< | 14:54 |
| * rm_you sleeps | 14:54 | |
| Khertan | bilboed-pi > a bit too expensive for me :) | 14:54 |
| Khertan | at least with the flight :) | 14:55 |
| bilboed-pi | Khertan, if you find somebody else, it comes at around 40 EUR per person per night | 14:55 |
| Khertan | so i ll be the only one from the summit in the hostel | 14:55 |
| Khertan | this is what i ll paid 49 Euros by night | 14:55 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Ooh, ITT upgrades | 14:56 |
| Khertan | ? | 14:56 |
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| Khertan | ah the forum softwares | 14:57 |
| Khertan | ;) | 14:57 |
| Khertan | hum ... mappy.com seems down | 14:59 |
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| crashanddie | seems like it | 15:00 |
| derf | lardman|lunch: Okay, I just checked in some code. | 15:01 |
| lcuk | lardman, you should be able to specify an arbitary chain of filters with gstreamer. theres a massive list of plugins but im not sure specifically. just an idea anyways http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/documentation/plugins.html | 15:02 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, you have done a bit on gstreamer plugins - have you seen any image processing filters? | 15:02 |
| Khertan | lcuk > hum ... do you think it ll be possible to make a lib so, which take an image in parameters and get the resulting upc code ? | 15:03 |
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| Khertan | does the upc database is use to accurate the reading process ? | 15:04 |
| Khertan | or just to see something usefull ? | 15:04 |
| lcuk | khertan, thats basically what the function does now: given a bitmap it returns upc. all im suggesting is to use the existing gstreamer plugins thing to do the filtering and allow different combinations of filters | 15:04 |
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| Khertan | lcuk > how do you pass that bitmap ? | 15:05 |
| Khertan | (i ven't read all the code yet) | 15:05 |
| lcuk | i dont, its just in memory though | 15:05 |
| Khertan | hum ... | 15:05 |
| dannym | zap: are you there? | 15:05 |
| lcuk | it arrives in memory by parsing the imagedata at the end of a gstreamer chain | 15:06 |
| Khertan | i ask this because i thinking of how to do the thing with python binding and make a python gui | 15:06 |
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| * Khertan don't like use gstreamer in python | 15:06 | |
| lcuk | i found it most acceptable tbh, but having a UPC gstreamer filter would make it childsplay | 15:07 |
| lcuk | camera->yuv->upc | 15:07 |
| lcuk | hmmm.. | 15:07 |
| Khertan | hum ... | 15:07 |
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| lcuk | actually have gstreamer itself expose the upc code as a proper gstreamer plugin | 15:08 |
| lcuk | its then available from all languages and uses | 15:08 |
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| lcuk | takes in data in yuv format | 15:08 |
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| zap | dannym: yep | 15:16 |
| zap | (partly :) | 15:16 |
| Khertan | i like the new button on maemo downloads comment : "report abuse" | 15:21 |
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| dannym | zap: hehe, me too :) | 15:32 |
| dannym | zap: I'm submitting a bug report to Info-ZIP about the UTF-8 thingie... <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2033790&group_id=118012&atid=679786> | 15:33 |
| dannym | zap: they have some code like that in their source file already (commented out), let's see what their reasoning for not use it :) | 15:34 |
| dannym | not using* | 15:34 |
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| dannym | zap: (our side's bug report is <https://garage.maemo.org/pm/task.php?group_id=91&group_project_id=154>) | 15:35 |
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| * zap is looking | 15:40 | |
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| zap | dannym: indeed, nl_langinfo is the easiest thing to do, and ncurses has the same bug | 15:41 |
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| dannym | zap: is it reported? | 15:45 |
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| macoute | have any1 tried opensync with a nokia phone succesfully? | 15:54 |
| macoute | with a s60 3rd edition phone to be exact | 15:54 |
| zap | dannym: nope, I fixed it in my mc port though | 15:55 |
| zap | but it's not fixed in the standard libslang package, which causes most slang apps to display garbage | 15:56 |
| solmumaha | macoute: mistä päin savoo? | 15:56 |
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| andre___ | why can't i find any other complaints about AppManager using the error sound when successfully installing a package? | 16:01 |
| andre___ | mankind, give me a second confirmation of https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3439 ! :) | 16:01 |
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| macoute | solmumaha: mikkelistä/from st. michel :) | 16:12 |
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| dannym | zap: I see... yay workarounds :) | 16:15 |
| dannym | zap: who uses libslang? (I'm really curious, I was of the impression that they either are old apps using ncurses or newer ones using GUI toolkits :)) | 16:17 |
| crashanddie | Heading out, talk to you guys when I'm in London ! | 16:18 |
| solmumaha | macoute: k, same here | 16:18 |
| Blafasel | Probably a stupid question, but what package (and from where) provides a c compiler? vala depends on one (obviously), but I see no package in extra (chinook, diablo) and extra-devel (diablo). | 16:18 |
| Dekaritae | http://gadgets.boingboing.net/glasspad.jpg | 16:18 |
| macoute | solmumaha: oh, i checked your /wii and noticed the same :) | 16:19 |
| dannym | crashanddie: bye :) | 16:19 |
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| macoute | solmumaha: are you a native mikkeliläinen? :) | 16:19 |
| macoute | solmumaha: im now living in helsinki, but originally from mikkeli | 16:19 |
| dannym | Blafasel: hmm... use the SDK repository. Do you mean in Scratchbox or on the device? | 16:20 |
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| Blafasel | Device | 16:21 |
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| solmumaha | macoute: yes, who would move here? :) | 16:22 |
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| macoute | solmumaha: thats true :) | 16:22 |
| smyows | openvpn don't work on maemo | 16:23 |
| smyows | ¬¬ | 16:23 |
| macoute | smyows: in diablo? | 16:24 |
| smyows | yes | 16:24 |
| macoute | i have had it working, so it does work on maemo | 16:24 |
| macoute | on diablo i havent tested | 16:24 |
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| smyows | i have installed liblzo2-2 but nothing | 16:24 |
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| smyows | openvpn have another depends? | 16:25 |
| macoute | lzo shouldnt be a depedency for openvpn | 16:25 |
| macoute | if you are not using compression | 16:25 |
| macoute | or am i totally wrong? | 16:26 |
| macoute | or has the packager made a mistake? :P | 16:26 |
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| smyows | i don't know | 16:26 |
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| dannym | macoute: dunno... but well, what's it supposed to do? Ask whether you want to install lzo when you first use a compressed connection? :D | 16:27 |
| zap | dannym: actually most console programs with kind-of-GUI use libslang | 16:27 |
| zap | iptraf for example | 16:27 |
| smyows | wathever i have lzo on maemo, but openvpn don't work | 16:27 |
| dannym | zap: I see... good to know :) | 16:27 |
| zap | Anybody got YouAmp working on their tablet? | 16:29 |
| zap | It shows just a empty window to me | 16:29 |
| mikkov_ | smyows: from where did install openvpn? it should work | 16:29 |
| qwerty12_N800 | zap: it's a python app afaik. try running something like youamp -v [vv] etc | 16:30 |
| lardman | derf: thanks I've pulled that | 16:31 |
| smyows | maemo repository | 16:31 |
| lardman | derf: what method did the original code use out of interest? | 16:31 |
| smyows | and put my key and config on /etc/openvpn | 16:31 |
| lardman | rm_you: did you see my comment about image->width/height? | 16:31 |
| derf | lardman: They split the image up into 16 blocks, computed the average gray level in each block, and thresholded. | 16:31 |
| lardman | ah ok | 16:31 |
| lardman | does that work? | 16:31 |
| mikkov_ | smyows: do you have some error message? | 16:32 |
| derf | I guess it worked for them :) | 16:32 |
| lardman | :) | 16:32 |
| mikkov_ | smyows: you must use verb 0 | 16:32 |
| lardman | was it simply a median calculation, or some histogram binning? | 16:32 |
| mikkov_ | smyows: it crashes if you have verb 4 or more | 16:32 |
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| derf | Not even median, mean. | 16:33 |
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| smyows | only display FAIL if i use initd script to start | 16:33 |
| derf | Err, sorry, actually looking at the code, even worse. | 16:33 |
| derf | They used (max-min)/2 as the threshold. | 16:33 |
| derf | Err, (max+min)/2, of course. | 16:34 |
| smyows | if i run openvpn --config /etc/openvpn/config.conf not display nothing | 16:34 |
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| mikkov_ | smyows: do you have this version 2.0.9-4etch1 | 16:38 |
| smyows | one moment | 16:38 |
| smyows | my openvpn is 2.0.9-4etch1 | 16:40 |
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| mikkov_ | run this: openvpn --genkey --secret test && openvpn --test-crypto --secret test | 16:43 |
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| brontide | x11vnc + personal menu = FAIL | 17:01 |
| qwerty12_N800 | can't click it? | 17:01 |
| zfigz | What's the best format for movies if you're going to play it via mplayer on the n810? | 17:02 |
| brontide | vnc works perfectly until I activate the menu and then the menu stays there and vnc gets "stuck" and stops refreshing the screen | 17:02 |
| zfigz | Because I'm trying a movie out and it's terribly sluggish | 17:02 |
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| brontide | I'm using vnc in "view only" mode to mirror the screen | 17:02 |
| nemo | zfigz: just as a WAG, it'd be same as any generic processor without HW video decoding (like the iphone uses) | 17:03 |
| brontide | hoping to use it at the Summit and also to record "screen sharing" sessions for training | 17:03 |
| nemo | zfigz: which means, find a format that requires less decoding, and maybe you need videos with less bits per frame | 17:03 |
| nemo | zfigz: seems that's sorta thing you could ask in the mplayer channel. but then, I'm new here | 17:03 |
| zfigz | nemo, oh, I didn't know there was a mplayer channel | 17:04 |
| nemo | And speaking of being new here - 128MiB of memory... that is, as it turns out, more than my laptop which has only 96MiB - however, I'll always take more. | 17:04 |
| nemo | is there a model with 256MiB? | 17:04 |
| nemo | seems like an easy target nowdays | 17:04 |
| qwerty12_N800 | nemo: nah, the lcd controller on the n8x0's suck so heavy videos don't play right with mplayer | 17:05 |
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| hrw | hmm.. how to make osso-mahjong run.. | 17:08 |
| zap | hrw: from scratchbox? | 17:09 |
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| hrw | in non-maemo env | 17:10 |
| hrw | all those maemo-launcher/invoker crap.. | 17:10 |
| zap | does it use libosso? | 17:10 |
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| hrw | zap: it links to it | 17:11 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hrw: without the startup screen? | 17:11 |
| zap | hrw: maemo-launcher can be stripped without much hassle | 17:11 |
| zap | just that the app will start slower | 17:12 |
| smyows | mmm | 17:14 |
| smyows | my openvpn have problem with crypto | 17:14 |
| smyows | mikkov ? | 17:15 |
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| nemo | qwerty12_N800: ok. so it is simply an LCD refresh rate thing? | 17:18 |
| mikkov_ | smyows: ey | 17:18 |
| hrw | ~curse maemo for lack of tools like strace | 17:18 |
| hrw | less, wget etc | 17:18 |
| nemo | qwerty12_N800: no matter how small the video, the N8x0 will always be slower than the usual video frame rate? | 17:18 |
| nemo | qwerty12_N800: I don't suppose you know about the memory thing? :) | 17:19 |
| smyows | mikkov_, my openvpn do not run the second command | 17:19 |
| smyows | openvpn --test-crypto --secret test | 17:19 |
| zap | dannym: how do you think, does it make sense to throw GNU tar into the zip/unzip project? :) | 17:19 |
| mikkov_ | smyows: did you get "Assertion failed at integer.h:94" | 17:20 |
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| smyows | ya | 17:20 |
| nemo | zfigz: BTW. didja catch qwerty12_N800's explanation? | 17:20 |
| smyows | let me put on pastebin[ | 17:21 |
| mikkov_ | smyows: that's normal :) | 17:21 |
| smyows | oO | 17:21 |
| hrw | or even lldd | 17:21 |
| smyows | rsrrs | 17:21 |
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| mikkov_ | smyows: does your config work in normal linux? | 17:21 |
| smyows | www.pastebin.ca/108884563 | 17:22 |
| zap | Ughm.... Advanced Backlight Control is Nokia-provided software??? | 17:22 |
| zfigz | nemo, was this it? | 17:22 |
| zfigz | nah, the lcd controller on the n8x0's suck so heavy videos don't play right with mplayer | 17:22 |
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| zfigz | So large video files don't work or ? | 17:22 |
| mikkov_ | smyows: i got invalid id from the link | 17:22 |
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| smyows | oops | 17:23 |
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| smyows | www.pastebin.ca/10884563 | 17:23 |
| zap | zfigz: N8xx will play video at a larger resolution than most PDAs I've ever seen | 17:23 |
| zfigz | zap, what's a good format to convert it to? | 17:23 |
| zap | zfigz: it at least has hardware support for YUV and scaling | 17:23 |
| zfigz | it's mp4 right now | 17:23 |
| zap | zfigz: yes | 17:23 |
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| zap | zfigz: what OS are you using? | 17:24 |
| mikkov_ | smyows: still doesn't work | 17:24 |
| smyows | a moment | 17:24 |
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| smyows | www.pastebin.ca/1088453 | 17:24 |
| smyows | small display and blind man isn't cool xD | 17:25 |
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| zfigz | zap: Diablo and 2008 | 17:25 |
| mikkov_ | smyows: yes, i get the same results with my openvpn. that should be ok | 17:26 |
| zap | zfigz: I mean on PC | 17:26 |
| zfigz | zap: 0s x | 17:26 |
| zap | zfigz: there are progs for converting video to a tablet-supported format | 17:26 |
| mikkov_ | smyows: i suspect that your config might be somehow borked | 17:26 |
| zfigz | I'm using iSquint now | 17:26 |
| zfigz | zap, what's a tablet-support format though? | 17:26 |
| zap | there are lots of them ,they were listed in internettablettalk Wiki, but its down now | 17:26 |
| smyows | my config works on slackware machine | 17:27 |
| smyows | is the same | 17:27 |
| zap | zfigz: you want the exact details? I can look up | 17:27 |
| smyows | i'll paste on pastebin | 17:27 |
| smyows | one moment | 17:27 |
| zap | zfigz: okay here's what my experience shows: mplayer can smoothly play any videos up to 512x304 resolution, GStreamer engine can play only up to 400x240 | 17:28 |
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| zap | zfigz: also for GStreamer engine I would disable B-frames | 17:28 |
| zap | that's about all about limits | 17:29 |
| Blafasel | Jaffa: Are you running valac on the device as well? | 17:29 |
| smyows | mikkov_, www.pastebin.ca/1088461 | 17:29 |
| zap | zfigz: I'd recommend the XviD encoder as it's about ten times faster than lavc | 17:29 |
| zfigz | Ok, we'll see here | 17:30 |
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| zfigz | zap, I'm not entirely sure what I'm converting it to | 17:30 |
| zfigz | my gawd | 17:30 |
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| zfigz | it's gonna take 700 min for it to convert | 17:30 |
| zfigz | bah | 17:30 |
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| nemo | zfigz: qwerty12_N800 appears to be stating the LCD rate is just too slow for normal video | 17:31 |
| nemo | zfigz: which is interesting to me | 17:31 |
| smyows | mikkov_, my config is okay? | 17:31 |
| nemo | zfigz: but seems surely normal things like frame size and decoding cost *must* play *some* part | 17:31 |
| zap | zfigz: the software you're using is crap | 17:32 |
| nemo | sooo. 256MiB - is there a nokia tablet with a bit more than 128? | 17:32 |
| zfigz | nemo, yeah...I don't know. I just know this movie was playing terribly last night and now I'm at work and I'd like to watch it incognito | 17:32 |
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| zap | zfigz: it takes 20-30 minutes for me, for a single AVI (and I can convert two at a time, using two cores) | 17:32 |
| mikkov_ | smyows: i get nothig with you config too... IÃ'll test a bit more.. | 17:33 |
| smyows | if i run ifconfig tun0 up the interface is going up? | 17:33 |
| zap | no, its going to the left usually | 17:34 |
| smyows | to start vpn is only run openvpn --config /etc/openvpn/myconfig.conf | 17:34 |
| smyows | what is wrong on my vpn :/ | 17:35 |
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| Blafasel | Hmm.. The only thing regarding gcc on the device is this: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-6737.html - Can anyone with more experience than me tell me if this would break major things? | 17:37 |
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| mikkov_ | smyows: comment that daemon line and then you shouls see the error message. verb 3 should be ok | 17:37 |
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| zfigz | zap, yeah...1000 min to convert | 17:38 |
| nemo | oh. it appears the N810 is upgradeable to 256MiB - from googling | 17:39 |
| nemo | no thanks to channel :D | 17:39 |
| zfigz | nemo, oh yeah? | 17:39 |
| nemo | oh. n/m | 17:39 |
| nemo | that's just a random internet commenter | 17:39 |
| nemo | blah | 17:39 |
| * nemo sighs. I gues 128MB isn't a huge deal. | 17:40 | |
| nemo | So long as it isn't using Gnome :) | 17:40 |
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| lardman | derf: very high-tech then :) | 17:40 |
| Blafasel | Khertan: In that thread you claim to have installed gcc on the device as well. Would you share how? | 17:40 |
| lardman | derf: but also very quick if it works | 17:40 |
| mikkov_ | smyows: ah yes there is no group nobody change that to nogroup | 17:40 |
| nemo | Blafasel: why would you put your compiler *on* the mobile device? | 17:40 |
| nemo | Blafasel: wouldn't it make more sense to do cross compiling on a desktop? | 17:41 |
| Blafasel | nemo: Well, to compile *on* the device ;) | 17:41 |
| nemo | Blafasel: why? | 17:41 |
| nemo | what'd be the point? | 17:41 |
| Blafasel | nemo: For big things? Yes. For compiling on the go, small tests? No ;) | 17:41 |
| nemo | ok. silly question. | 17:41 |
| nemo | I do lots of things with no points | 17:41 |
| Blafasel | ;) | 17:41 |
| nemo | small tests, I do ssh'd into home computer :-p | 17:41 |
| nemo | $ cstdin | 17:42 |
| nemo | printf("hello world"); | 17:42 |
| nemo | hello world | 17:42 |
| nemo | :) | 17:42 |
| Blafasel | Nope. But I think lcuk uses C on the device as well... | 17:42 |
| lardman | derf: is that the technique from zxing or from the Japanese QRCode decoder? | 17:42 |
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| dannym | Blafasel: should work, but didn't try :) | 17:42 |
| smyows | mikkov_, works :D | 17:43 |
| smyows | mikkov_, thanks a lot! | 17:43 |
| dannym | Blafasel: though I don't get what "libc6_2.3.5cs2005q3.2-5.osso12_armel.deb" is for... is that supposed to be .."_dev" ? | 17:43 |
| mikkov_ | no problem ;) | 17:43 |
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| dannym | Blafasel: robmiller's post on the forum looks disheartening though :) | 17:45 |
| zap | zfigz: install linux and try my prog ;-\ | 17:45 |
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| zfigz | zap, I'm getting something better now | 17:48 |
| lcuk | Blafasel, installing gcc on the device is just like installing anything, its just another app. it doesnt break things. you get it from the same repo that scratchbox uses (i cant remember which off hand). and you get the -dev libraries from the same place | 17:49 |
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| Blafasel | lcuk: Thanks a lot | 17:51 |
| * lcuk runs away again | 17:51 | |
| nemo | lcuk: what do you use it for though? :) | 17:54 |
| nemo | then again, I think some maniacs have put it on the iphone. | 17:54 |
| chelli | mikkov_: are you there? i just saw that you uploaded openvpn-applet to diablo-extras-devel, package is uninstallable because openvpn is not included in diablo-extras(-devel) yet, do you plan to upload it, ok should someone else take care (i would have a backport from Debian Etch almoast ready) | 17:54 |
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| Blafasel | I'm at a customer here (yawn) and no access to my desktop. If anyone out there has access to a scratchbox environment and could issue a package search for gcc (dpkg -S /path/to/file afaik) and an apt-cache policy packagename (should show the repository) that would be awesome.. I'm lost on the scratchbox howto sites.. | 17:55 |
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| nomis | Blafasel: uh, it is a bit wierdly linked around in scratchbox | 17:57 |
| derf | lardman: From the Japanese one. | 17:57 |
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| nomis | Blafasel: http://repository.maemo.org diablo/sdk/free Packages | 17:58 |
| Blafasel | nomis: Yeah, probably depending on the target, I guess. | 17:58 |
| lardman | derf: the zxing one uses histogram binning | 17:59 |
| Blafasel | nomis: You, sir, are my hero of the day ;) | 17:59 |
| nomis | package "gcc-3.4" | 17:59 |
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| lardman | derf: I've not tried it, but thought I'd pull the idea out and stick it in a shared binarization.c file | 17:59 |
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| * nomis bows towards the audience | 17:59 | |
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| zap | Blafasel: http://repository.maemo.org/dists/diablo/ | 18:04 |
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| brontide | x11vnc not run as root = me FAIL :-P | 18:09 |
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| lcuk | nemo - search for liqbase and you will find out | 18:11 |
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| lcuk | tive posted lots of comments and notes about my usage and speed of compilation etc. for me as a *dont shoot me* windows user, it was simpler and more logical to do on device compilation | 18:12 |
| qwerty12 | nemo, sorry about earlier. my internet got disconnected. If someone didn't already answer, the lcd controller cannot keep up with the video fast enough and writes too slowly to the screen AFAIK. It doesn't help that Nokia decided to use a Low Speed Serial connection for connecting it either... | 18:12 |
| nemo | lcuk: heh. you're doing it basically 'cause you couldn't be bothered to setup cross-compiling? :) | 18:15 |
| lcuk | qwerty12, nokias lcd decision sounds like your low speed internet decision | 18:16 |
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| qwerty12 | lcuk, Nah, my router keeps acting funny. I get 8MB here. Not the fastest by any means but definitely not slow. | 18:17 |
| lcuk | nemo, ive got vmware image here and have it setup and configured, it was just slower than the current approach and was more glitchy. i never used the emulator thing and managing extra multiple machines was annoying | 18:17 |
| lardman | delete Windows and install Ubuntu ;) | 18:17 |
| lcuk | besides, i can go out for a coffee break and recompile whilst out :) can you? | 18:17 |
| nemo | lcuk: you can do cross-compiling under windows | 18:17 |
| lcuk | ubuntu wont install fully on my 810 | 18:17 |
| lardman | I can compile while doing my shoe laces :p | 18:18 |
| qwerty12 | lardman++ (on the deleting windows bit anyway) :P | 18:18 |
| nemo | lcuk: but, I've found VirtualBox to be almost equal in speed to windows. For file I/O it was faster | 18:18 |
| lardman | :) | 18:18 |
| nemo | lcuk: back when I had to run Ubuntu under virtualbox... | 18:18 |
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| nemo | lcuk: but, you know, there's always cygwin for setting up a compilation env | 18:19 |
| lcuk | nemo, the only good thing a bigger box gives is the autotools, if i could get that on my device (i can already solve the space issue) then i would not even consider anything other than direct native compilation | 18:19 |
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| nemo | lcuk: bigger box means more memory, more space for source, faster compiles, less wear and tear on flash | 18:19 |
| nemo | lcuk: but. hey. do whatever you want to do. I'm sure not going to do it :) | 18:20 |
| lcuk | compilation times for the software i build and use (in c at least) are faster than my big fast machine building ms.net apps | 18:20 |
| nemo | I think I'd find that really frustrating. | 18:20 |
| nemo | lcuk: lol. that's no comparison | 18:20 |
| hub | the flasher failed with an error http://pastebin.ca/1088523 | 18:20 |
| hub | any idea? | 18:20 |
| lcuk | why frustrating - flash drives are 10 a penny | 18:20 |
| lcuk | if one breaks, so what | 18:20 |
| lcuk | nemo, of course it is - i work in .shit all day and so my little box working faster is double bonus | 18:21 |
| hub | so my device is bricked | 18:21 |
| hub | :-( | 18:21 |
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| lcuk | nemo :) building my app on my device using standard tools works for me, ymmv is the best answer | 18:22 |
| lardman | hub: not bricked | 18:22 |
| hub | lardman: rebooting in a loop | 18:22 |
| lardman | hub: not sure what that error indicates though | 18:22 |
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| hub | well I'd look at the source code of the flasher | 18:23 |
| hub | but.... | 18:23 |
| lardman | hub: well yeah, you don't have any kernel modules for the new kernel probably | 18:23 |
| hub | (unless I missed something) | 18:23 |
| lardman | 0xffff | 18:23 |
| hub | I tried with both the static and non static version of the flasher | 18:24 |
| hub | (I'm on openSUSE 11 since that may matter for a binary only) | 18:24 |
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| nemo | lcuk: like I said, whatever works for you. certainly would not be my natural impulse | 18:25 |
| nemo | lcuk: you might be surprised at how much more pleasant development gets when you give the compiler more memory and a better CPU though | 18:25 |
| nemo | lcuk: especially if you're tweaking. | 18:25 |
| nemo | clean builds every minute or two get old fast | 18:26 |
| lardman | hub: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/oxffff/ | 18:26 |
| hub | does that one work better? | 18:27 |
| lardman | well you have the source code for it | 18:27 |
| lardman | so you could try and work out what's going wrong | 18:27 |
| hub | good point | 18:27 |
| hub | and I can actually package it for suse | 18:28 |
| hub | ahah | 18:30 |
| hub | TODO: Implement the fiasco flashing here. | 18:30 |
| lardman | well you could use the Nokia flasher to extract the parts and then try flashing the rootfs | 18:31 |
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| lardman | that's the only bit you need to flash still | 18:32 |
| hub | *sigh* | 18:32 |
| derf | lardman: The problem with a single histogram is if the lighting changes across the image or someone's spilled some crap on part of it, no single threshold can work for the whole image. | 18:33 |
| hrw | lcuk: Xsp.h - which package contains it? | 18:33 |
| hub | lardman: I guess FIASCO really means what it means | 18:33 |
| lardman | yeah, I wonder if they do it for regions; I didn't look too closely though | 18:33 |
| hub | a real fiasco | 18:33 |
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| lardman | hub: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/flasher_tool_usage/ | 18:34 |
| derf | It looked like they did either for a single row (for barcodes) or for the whole image. | 18:34 |
| lardman | hub: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/flasher_tool_usage/#2835bd18b76fb0352af794c2c00923e5 | 18:34 |
| lardman | derf: still room for improvement then, but it still works very well | 18:34 |
| derf | Sure, if you don't have any serious degredation, it'll work just fine. | 18:35 |
| derf | But then, so will almost anything. | 18:35 |
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| lardman | yeah, of course, but we don't need something that's perfect, just something that will work in most cases | 18:36 |
| lardman | did you see the image which the online zxing could decode? | 18:36 |
| derf | Well, perfect is impossible. | 18:36 |
| lardman | ;) | 18:36 |
| derf | But you can always optimize on the margin. | 18:36 |
| derf | lardman: No. | 18:36 |
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| lardman | derf: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2008-07-31.log.html search down to "QR" and look at the image brontide tested | 18:37 |
| brontide | I was impressed with it being able to decode that image. I'll have to try a few more "curveballs" to see what it can do | 18:39 |
| lardman | I'd say that's "good enough" for starters anyway | 18:39 |
| derf | Well, the resolution is pretty bad, but the contrast is good. | 18:40 |
| hub | lardman: now I get this | 18:40 |
| hub | Flashing initfs (/home/hub/Desktop/initfs.jffs2) | 18:40 |
| hub | | hash: 0xcf16 size: 2286848 (00 22 e5 00) | 18:40 |
| hub | [=] Bulkwriting the initfs piece... | 18:40 |
| hub | 100% [#################################################################] | 18:40 |
| hub | Oops. Invalid checksum? | 18:40 |
| derf | And that's all you really need. | 18:40 |
| hub | wtf | 18:40 |
| lardman | hub: dodgy download? | 18:41 |
| hub | lardman: md5sum match | 18:41 |
| lardman | hub: or faulty checksum after the write? | 18:41 |
| derf | That will look like shit after going through the Wiener filter, though. | 18:41 |
| hub | lardman: maybe columns b | 18:41 |
| derf | Which is why I think that part is still broken. | 18:41 |
| lardman | derf: skip the filter for the time being, add it in as an enhancement | 18:42 |
| hub | lardman: ok flashing the previous revision seems to work | 18:42 |
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| derf | lardman: Yeah, you just comment out one line of code in qr_binarize(). | 18:42 |
| k88 | any idea where i can find : gdk-pixbuf-2.0 ? | 18:42 |
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| hub | lardman: so I guess this image is just fucked and nobody realised | 18:44 |
| lardman | hub: no idea, which is it and where from? | 18:45 |
| hub | lardman: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php?f=RX-34_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin | 18:45 |
| hub | lardman: the official Nokia image | 18:45 |
| hub | the one that is a PITA to download | 18:46 |
| lardman | hmm, worked for me | 18:46 |
| hub | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php?f=RX-34_2008SE_2.2007.51-3_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin <- this one worked | 18:46 |
| lcuk | hrw libxsp | 18:46 |
| derf_ | lardman: Anyway, I'll add that image to my test set. | 18:46 |
| lardman | derf_: cool | 18:47 |
| lardman | hub: sorry, I don't know; perhaps try downloading it again? | 18:47 |
| hub | lardman: since the md5sums match I don't see why | 18:47 |
| hub | but anyway | 18:47 |
| hub | I'll just content myself of this one | 18:47 |
| hub | it is still better than last time | 18:47 |
| hub | I don't really have time to hack | 18:48 |
| hub | thanks for the help | 18:48 |
| lardman | np | 18:48 |
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| lardman | sorry I couldn't do more | 18:48 |
| hub | lardman: yeah well, that's how it works with proprietary crap. | 18:49 |
| hub | I'll mention it | 18:49 |
| qwerty12 | RX-34_2008SE_2.2007.51-3_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin - Is that the chinook imag? | 18:50 |
| qwerty12 | *image | 18:50 |
| lcuk | hrw - actually, its the -dev variation | 18:51 |
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| hub | qwerty12: IT OS 2008 | 18:51 |
| qwerty12 | hub, Doesn't tell me much. I can't be arsed to dig out my N800's mac just to open the tablets-dev page. | 18:51 |
| eichi | i miss the "lock applet" option on the maemo desktop, to often i move the applets wheater i dont want to do that | 18:52 |
| eichi | why is it kicked? | 18:52 |
| Khertan | bye :) | 18:53 |
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| qwerty12 | 00194F9EDD2D - Sigh. Magic mac address. | 18:54 |
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| qwerty12 | anyway, hub, the location and size of initfs was changed in diablo. It doesn't seem to be flashing right for you. What I would do is to flash it with RX-34_2008SE_2.2007.51-3_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin and then flash the bootloaders (secondary, xloader, config etc) with the --flash-only option and then reboot and try flashing again. | 18:56 |
| hub | qwerty12: how do you want me to know if it is chinook or not | 18:56 |
| hub | qwerty12: it is like the stupid mac naming | 18:56 |
| qwerty12 | hub, it doesn't matter, I'm in the page, it is chinook :) | 18:56 |
| hub | what's the difference in the end? | 18:56 |
| qwerty12 | s/anyway, hub, the location and size of initfs was changed in diablo. It doesn't seem to be flashing right for you. What I would do is to flash it with RX-34_2008SE_2.2007.51-3_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin and then flash the bootloaders (secondary, xloader, config etc) with the --flash-only option and then reboot and try flashing again./anyway, hub, the location and size of initfs was changed in diablo. It doesn't seem to be flashing right for you. | 18:56 |
| qwerty12 | What I would do is to flash it with RX-34_2008SE_2.2007.51-3_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin and then flash the bootloaders (secondary, xloader, config etc) with the --flash-only option using RX-34_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin and then reboot and try flashing again./ | 18:56 |
| hub | yeah I read that | 18:57 |
| qwerty12 | I was correcting a mistake. | 18:57 |
| hub | ah | 18:57 |
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| hub | "chinook" is installed | 18:57 |
| hub | so | 18:57 |
| qwerty12 | Usually infobot jumps in but I think that was a little to big for X-Chat to handle :/ | 18:57 |
| *** JZA has joined #maemo | 18:58 | |
| hub | it is just idiotic that it does not work | 18:58 |
| JZA | hi I just upgrade to diablo but I can't find Opera | 18:58 |
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| qwerty12 | JZA, Opera was removed from chinook even. | 18:59 |
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| JZA | qwerty12: wow, that sucks, I am a hardcore opera fan | 18:59 |
| JZA | I also don't see it on the Opera site to get a download from it. | 19:00 |
| hub | for once Nokia free some stuff and there are people that don't like it | 19:00 |
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| hub | *grin* | 19:00 |
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| JZA | hub: opera rocks | 19:01 |
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| Khertan_n810 | Hi again ... | 19:11 |
| Khertan_n810 | is there someone interested by helping me to make a better gui to mCalendar ? | 19:12 |
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| lcuk | Khertan_n810, try starting simple - suggest a brainstorm about best calendar apps (with preview pics and explainations) and see what comes of it | 19:15 |
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| lcuk | we love coloring competitions but hate real work ;) | 19:15 |
| JZA | Khertan_n810: i am pretty lost on the clendar side since I am new to diablo I dunno which calendar is better for what | 19:15 |
| Khertan_n810 | lol | 19:15 |
| hrw | lcuk: would you accept some patches to liqbase to un-maemo it? | 19:15 |
| lcuk | heh hrw :) which devices have you been tweaking with? | 19:16 |
| hrw | lcuk: now I just try to build it | 19:16 |
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| lcuk | but now isnt really best time to talk - i will certainly accept patches | 19:16 |
| Khertan_n810 | lcuk > hum i know what could be good ... but needs some help with gtk | 19:16 |
| hrw | without Xsp crap etc | 19:16 |
| lcuk | can we talk later on | 19:16 |
| hrw | sure | 19:17 |
| lcuk | hrw, xsp isnt crap but i know its not available on most platforms | 19:17 |
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| hrw | xsp is maemoism | 19:17 |
| lcuk | ill be back from work later and run over with you | 19:18 |
| lcuk | say 8pm (~3hours from now) | 19:18 |
| lcuk | or is that too late? | 19:18 |
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| hrw | lcuk: tomorrow will be better | 19:19 |
| lcuk | ok - ill try to get back asap (i have to go shopping) if i see you this evening great, if not tomorrow | 19:19 |
| * Khertan_n810 think the first priority for maemo.org is to have better server .... !!!! | 19:19 | |
| qwerty12 | ^ | 19:19 |
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| * lbt thinks we need a new logo | 19:20 | |
| Khertan_n810 | lol | 19:20 |
| qwerty12 | Having a shit server won't convince anyone that maemo is great. | 19:20 |
| lbt | a logo will | 19:20 |
| Khertan_n810 | u don t like the new one ? | 19:20 |
| zap | whatz the new one? | 19:20 |
| qwerty12 | http://www.internettablettalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/maemo_org_new_logo.jpg | 19:20 |
| lcuk | how about a shit logo on a great server? | 19:21 |
| Khertan_n810 | i prefer ... | 19:21 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk, That wouldn't piss me off :P. A shit server gets me frustrated though :/ | 19:21 |
| zap | remembers me the Fedora logo :) | 19:21 |
| lbt | no, link to this one : http://wiki.maemo.org/images/4/48/Maemo.org_logo_contest_glaoliver_1.png | 19:21 |
| Khertan_n810 | but at this time there is no great logo and a really poor server | 19:21 |
| lbt | it will be updated in place as it is tweaked | 19:21 |
| qwerty12 | lbt, true. I was just on the itt page at the time :D | 19:22 |
| lbt | 'k | 19:22 |
| lbt | lcuk : that was the fastest logo submitted | 19:22 |
| qwerty12 | Ah well, a logo isn't going do anything for me. Improvements to the platform a new server will :) | 19:22 |
| qwerty12 | *and a | 19:22 |
| lbt | go faster stripes principle | 19:22 |
| qwerty12 | Wow, I wonder what the changes in bluez 4 will mean for maemo. | 19:23 |
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| lbt | Khertan_n810: do some research on calendar apps and start a wiki page on the pros and cons | 19:24 |
| * qwerty12 needs a changelog before trying to build the latest bluez from maemo stage again | 19:24 | |
| Khertan_n810 | rah !!!!! why i can t choose os version when create a maemo product | 19:24 |
| Khertan_n810 | !!!! | 19:24 |
| Khertan_n810 | pffffff !!!!! | 19:24 |
| Khertan_n810 | borring with this ! | 19:24 |
| zap | what hardware is behind maemo.org? | 19:24 |
| Khertan_n810 | i ll no make it listed on maemo.org ! | 19:24 |
| lbt | zap: a 770 I think | 19:25 |
| jott | zap: nokia 770 | 19:25 |
| zap | hahahah | 19:25 |
| qwerty12 | zap, 770 connected to 33.3 K modem | 19:25 |
| jott | (we are all pretty sure of this) | 19:25 |
| Khertan_n810 | zap> surely apache on a 770 | 19:25 |
| lbt | running XP under vmware | 19:25 |
| Khertan_n810 | with an connection by bluetooth to an edge phone | 19:25 |
| * zap remembers the times when handhelds.org had a compile farm built on a cluster of iPAQs | 19:25 | |
| qwerty12 | Probably ran faster than the maemo.org server does now. | 19:26 |
| brontide | don't insult the ipaq's | 19:26 |
| brontide | :-P | 19:26 |
| qwerty12 | Why, will you throw one at my head? :P | 19:26 |
| brontide | No, I need maemo.org to work | 19:27 |
| qwerty12 | Brb, scratchbox's adduser wants me to ctrl-alt-bksp | 19:27 |
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| faheem_ | And it seems by doing that, xchat didn't remember my settings :rolleyes:. My fault. | 19:28 |
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| nemo | Cheapest N810 I could find was $345 - good price? | 19:29 |
| Khertan_n810 | yes | 19:29 |
| *** qwerty12_1 is now known as qwerty12 | 19:29 | |
| Khertan_n810 | in france this is around 400 Euros | 19:29 |
| Khertan_n810 | but we can buy in us | 19:29 |
| nemo | Khertan_n810: vous etes français? | 19:29 |
| Khertan_n810 | moi oui :) | 19:30 |
| nemo | cool. | 19:30 |
| Khertan_n810 | :) | 19:30 |
| nemo | c'est permit de parlez en français ici? | 19:30 |
| nemo | parler | 19:31 |
| Khertan_n810 | bah c est pas sympas pour les autres | 19:31 |
| nemo | J'ai pas souvent la chance d'y pratiquer maintenant. | 19:31 |
| nemo | ah. | 19:31 |
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| Khertan_n810 | :) | 19:32 |
| Khertan_n810 | connection will drop | 19:32 |
| Khertan_n810 | entering subways | 19:33 |
| Khertan_n810 | (tube) | 19:33 |
| Khertan_n810 | bye | 19:33 |
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| * lbt cuts Khertan_n810's wires in the real world... | 19:33 | |
| zap | Anybody knows why BlueTooth device are so power-hungry, unlike 2.4GHz radio keyboards/mices ? | 19:35 |
| * qwerty12 cant decide to mount Os2007 rootfs or not... | 19:36 | |
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| hrw | qwerty12: what for? | 19:48 |
| qwerty12 | hrw, I want to get out some newer opera libs from the last Os2007 image so I can repack that port of the opera browser for OS2008 and someone on itt was asking for the keyboard theme from the Os2007 to be put on Os2008 :/ | 19:49 |
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| hrw | qwerty12: I wonder will opera eal works with os2008 eal | 19:51 |
| hrw | gtk changes etc... | 19:51 |
| hrw | but worth try | 19:51 |
| qwerty12 | "* Theme is not working (needs a separate sapwood-server for that, if someone can tell me how to run a second sapwood-server - i'm all ears)..." | 19:52 |
| hrw | os2007 had black keyboard and os2008 has white - right? | 19:52 |
| qwerty12 | By default yes. But felicia in os2008 has black keyboard but it's quite different to the Os2007 one. | 19:53 |
| hrw | so it is a matter of tweaking theme | 19:53 |
| hrw | I do not use IM keyboard in os2008 - hardware one works fine | 19:54 |
| qwerty12 | Yeah, I'm no gfx expert so I'll steal nokia's stuff. | 19:54 |
| * qwerty12 only has a N800 | 19:54 | |
| hrw | I skipped n800 | 19:55 |
| hrw | or rather n800 skipped me as I got 770 with words like "sorry, we've got out of n800" | 19:56 |
| nemo | Oh. Hey. Another thing before I smack the order button on this N810 | 19:56 |
| nemo | I heard stuff about an N820 ? | 19:56 |
| hrw | nemo: no | 19:56 |
| hrw | nemo: there is n810 wimax edition but not available in the stores at all | 19:57 |
| nemo | meh. screw wimax. | 19:57 |
| hrw | nemo: only some demo units exists | 19:57 |
| qwerty12 | hrw, Heh. I like the N810's keyboard but the gps and the stuff they took out made it lose its appeal to me :) | 19:57 |
| hrw | qwerty12: agreed | 19:57 |
| nemo | What'd they take out? | 19:57 |
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| hrw | qwerty12: but after zaurus I cannot use devices without keyboard | 19:57 |
| hrw | nemo: n800 has 2 SD slots. n810 has 1 miniSD slot + 2GB internal storage (visible as sd card) | 19:58 |
| qwerty12 | hrw, Heh. I know, I thought I would be able to use the N800 fine after using a keyboardless pocket pc but my aching wrists disagree. | 19:58 |
| hrw | nemo: so n800 can take 2x32GB sdhc cards... n810 can take 8gb card + 2gb internal | 19:58 |
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| nemo | hrw: ah. that's not really a big deal for me. but useful to know | 19:59 |
| nemo | hrw: My current laptop has 4GiB of HD space :) | 19:59 |
| nemo | hrw: along with the 96MiB of RAM | 19:59 |
| hrw | nemo: my current laptop has 80GB hdd and 1GB ram.. but desktop beats it with 4gb ram and 820gb storage | 20:00 |
| * jott laptop is a n810 :) | 20:00 | |
| nemo | hrw: I was too cheap to pay much for my laptop | 20:01 |
| hrw | nemo: mine laptop costed me less then n810 | 20:01 |
| nemo | hrw: X + ssh + XFCE4 + NFS chew up almost 50MiB | 20:02 |
| nemo | Paid $50 for my laptop as a refurb, 2 years ago :) | 20:02 |
| MangoFusion | nice | 20:02 |
| nemo | Seamonkey suite takes up another 15MiB | 20:02 |
| nemo | 'course, battery died on it, and replacing that now would cost more than laptop | 20:03 |
| nemo | cheaper to get an N810 | 20:03 |
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| qwerty12 | *Sigh*. It's always good having a sbox target that uses CS2008. | 20:04 |
| hrw | I want sbox free SDK | 20:04 |
| RST38h | +1 | 20:05 |
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| lcuk | back later | 20:09 |
| RST38h | Nokia dropping phone prices | 20:09 |
| RST38h | Including 5310 price, if any cheapskates are interested in a really thin phone for tethering | 20:10 |
| dannym | can I implement my own connectivity Internet Access Point which will be picked up by "icd2"? | 20:10 |
| qwerty12 | Nokia drop prices. Sony Ericsson drop workers... | 20:10 |
| RST38h | Seem to be S40-based though, so you may wanna skip on this offer | 20:11 |
| hrw | RST38h: I am thinking about motorola razr2 v8 for hacking (when someone manage to skip kernel blocks) | 20:11 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Nokia did it too - just ask Germans present here =) | 20:11 |
| qwerty12 | Ah, yes, Bochum :) | 20:11 |
| RST38h | hrw: No. | 20:11 |
| RST38h | hrw: Just no. | 20:11 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h, Do Russians have a hate of Razr phones? http://englishrussia.com/?p=1518 | 20:12 |
| hrw | RST38h: so bad? | 20:12 |
| RST38h | hrw: Very nice build quality. Absolutely horrible phone. | 20:12 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Bought one for my wife - virtually indestructable. But still sucks. | 20:13 |
| qwerty12 | Lol | 20:13 |
| RST38h | The photo is actually an ad campaign though | 20:13 |
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| hub | RST38h: too bad the price don't drop for services | 20:14 |
| RST38h | What services? | 20:15 |
| hub | the crooks called "carriers" | 20:15 |
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| hub | 'cause a phone without the service is not really useful | 20:15 |
| hub | :-) | 20:15 |
| RST38h | Oh, not in Russia | 20:15 |
| RST38h | They are ok here. | 20:15 |
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| RST38h | [at least for now] | 20:15 |
| smyows | o/ | 20:16 |
| hub | RST38h: yeah that the saddest part. is we have the most expensive service here | 20:16 |
| hub | here = Canada | 20:16 |
| RST38h | hub: worse than US? | 20:16 |
| hub | RST38h: by far | 20:16 |
| RST38h | urgh | 20:16 |
| RST38h | Actually, South Asia probably has the nicest carriers | 20:17 |
| hub | even more since the $ are on par | 20:17 |
| smyows | n800 run java aplications? | 20:17 |
| hub | smyows: not out of the box, for sure | 20:17 |
| dannym | smyows: interpreted, yes... | 20:17 |
| MangoFusion | RST38h: razr phone? didn't get one of those shitty V3* ones, did you? :( | 20:18 |
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| smyows | hmm | 20:18 |
| smyows | mpmaps for mobile phones get routes from googlemaps and shows on non vectorized maps | 20:19 |
| smyows | maemo mapper have this feature? | 20:19 |
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| chelli | mikkov_: i successfully uploaded openvpn to diablo-extras-devel a few minutes ago, so your package openvpn-applet is now installable for users who have only diablo-repositories configured ;-) | 20:19 |
| RST38h | Mango: I have got one of the first-gen ones, the slim model | 20:20 |
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| RST38h | Mango: may be V3, dunno, not really interested in using it for anything but an occassional call | 20:21 |
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| lardman | rm_you: ping | 20:21 |
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| hub | the razr v3 software is a piece of shit | 20:22 |
| hub | the phone is ok | 20:22 |
| hub | I'll see if it last me longer than my last Nokia | 20:22 |
| hub | :-) | 20:22 |
| hub | it is in a good shape for that | 20:23 |
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| MangoFusion | yes. the software is shit. too locked down too | 20:23 |
| hub | MangoFusion: but it gives phone call :-) | 20:24 |
| hub | better than a broken Nokia :-)) | 20:24 |
| MangoFusion | true, true | 20:24 |
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| hub | too bad OpenMoko is so craptastic | 20:25 |
| hub | and less capable too | 20:25 |
| hub | (my motoral is quad-band) | 20:25 |
| hub | s/motoral/motorola/ | 20:26 |
| lardman | hub: you go to South America often then? | 20:27 |
| hub | lardman: Europe | 20:27 |
| hub | lardman: I mean I don't really use it there, but I won't sacrifice the possibility to use it there | 20:28 |
| hub | tri-band could work, but not as good | 20:28 |
| RST38h | May I suggest an HTC "phone" as a good hacking target? | 20:28 |
| RST38h | These are generic and I am sure WinMobile is full of holes | 20:28 |
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| lardman | Europe doesn't need quadband | 20:28 |
| hub | lardman: it does. here it is 1900 and 850, europe is 900 and 1800 | 20:29 |
| hub | lardman: see, 1,2,3,4 bands :-) | 20:29 |
| lardman | where's here? | 20:29 |
| lardman | US? | 20:29 |
| hub | lardman: north america | 20:29 |
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| lardman | I see | 20:29 |
| ShadowJK | Don't forget the 3G frequencies too ;-) | 20:29 |
| hub | ShadowJK: no 3G, don't care | 20:29 |
| lardman | One of your bands isn't used much is it? | 20:30 |
| hub | lardman: they are | 20:30 |
| lardman | where though | 20:30 |
| lardman | ? | 20:30 |
| hub | I'd tell you if I knew | 20:30 |
| hub | but I know that 850 is also in wide use | 20:30 |
| zap | X-Fade: does DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS include "thumb" in the extras builder? For some reason I see that the packages are built as non-thumb ARM... | 20:30 |
| hub | 1900 is the original deployment | 20:30 |
| hub | but anyway, that's not the debate | 20:31 |
| lardman | my phone is triband, has worked in NY, Chicago, Oregon | 20:31 |
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| ShadowJK | triband usually means 850 or 900, plus 1800 and 1900, I think | 20:31 |
| hrw | ShadowJK: here it is usually 900/1800/1900 | 20:32 |
| lardman | for me it's probably 900+1800+something American | 20:32 |
| hrw | as we have 900 and 1800 gsm | 20:32 |
| lardman | GSM/EDGE 900/1800/1900 to be exact | 20:33 |
| lardman | so I assumed that 850 wasn't used much in the US | 20:33 |
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| hrw | and then goes 1800/2100 umts.. and then some 1700MHz thing.. | 20:34 |
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| Stskeeps | despair is walking around with your n800 in a polish mountain village, and none of the wifi networks will connect | 20:35 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:35 |
| zap | use aircrack, chap | 20:36 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: try walking around Chicago and having likewise | 20:36 |
| mikkov_ | chelli: thanks ;) | 20:36 |
| Stskeeps | zap: i might have been able to connect to one if i had brought my tcpdump :P | 20:36 |
| Stskeeps | .. which i forgot | 20:36 |
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| zap | when I need wifi somewhere in a unexpected place, I always find someone's unencrypted access point :) | 20:37 |
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| chelli | mikkov_: now it would be extremely cool, if the openvpn-applet would provide and graphical editor for openvpn-cfg-files ;-) | 20:37 |
| Stskeeps | i thought so too, but noo.. | 20:37 |
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| Stskeeps | which reminds me i need dnstunnel for my tablet :P | 20:37 |
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| hrw | bye guys | 20:38 |
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| lardman | cu hrw | 20:38 |
| mikkov_ | chelli: would it be enough if you could just open cfg to editor from applet? ;) | 20:38 |
| hrw | openvpn-applet? sounds interesting | 20:38 |
| mikkov_ | openvpn has so darn many options ;) | 20:39 |
| chelli | mikkov_: would be ok, but at least some options like possibilities to import existing cfg-files would be cool :) | 20:40 |
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| mikkov_ | chelli: i have somewhere half made version where you can select your cfg directory and then just copy files with normal filemanager | 20:41 |
| ryoohki | any idea when the new n800 will come out? | 20:41 |
| chelli | mikkov_: btw: how are you calling openvpn? with sudo? sudo-support is activated in my openvpn-package for user | 20:42 |
| * lardman looks for a datamatrix for testing | 20:42 | |
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| mikkov_ | chelli: i think that 0.2 is using sudo openvpn... or was it sudo /etc/init.d/openvpn. can't remember ;) | 20:43 |
| hub | ryoohki: the N810 is available for a while | 20:44 |
| mikkov_ | chelli: it sudo /etc/init.d/openvpn because that way it easier to stop openvpn | 20:44 |
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| chelli | ok, so your openvpn-applet-package configures sudo automatically in postinst? | 20:45 |
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| lardman | wow, that is really slow code | 20:46 |
| mikkov_ | chelli: it places file to /etc/sudoers.d/ | 20:46 |
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| mikkov_ | 0.1 version used sudo openvpn, but then i had to use sudo kill to stop it :( | 20:47 |
| pcaddict | hows everyone doing | 20:48 |
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| chelli | mikkov_: ok, and do you also call "update-sudoers" in debian/postinst, afaik, this is required, without it should not work ;-) | 20:48 |
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| mikkov_ | chelli: no it doesnn't... didn't really test it, I'll add that. thanks :) | 20:49 |
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| chelli | mikkov_: i have "update-sudoers || true" in debian/postinst in the configure-section of the openvpn-package, i guess you should add do the same ;-) | 20:51 |
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| * Deeteroderdas is away: I'm busy | 20:55 | |
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| mikkov_ | ... and the fix is done :) | 21:11 |
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| teamcobra | finally did my first scratchbox port last night.... dopewars ;) | 21:19 |
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| teamcobra | now onto chibitracker, but is it possible to to build a scons-based project in scratchbox? | 21:25 |
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| jott | teamcobra: should be possible. you could also take a look at milkytracker which already works fine :) | 21:28 |
| teamcobra | sweet | 21:29 |
| teamcobra | I'll still learn how to port it and put some debs out, choice is always a good thing (plus making debs for the first time last night was a great learning experience :D) | 21:30 |
| jott | teamcobra: http://outpo.st/milkytracker_0.90.80-1_armel.deb | 21:30 |
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| * jott should finally push it to extras :/ | 21:30 | |
| teamcobra | btw, if anyone wants dopewars, I can put it up someplace, but it's far from beautiful ;p | 21:30 |
| Jaffa | teamcobra: you might also be interested in mud-builder for helping you to build debs for Maemo | 21:31 |
| teamcobra | I need to hildonize it, I think... so that fullscreen works, etc | 21:31 |
| jott | teamcobra: sure, go ahead. i think chibitracker might have some problems with the 480 height. | 21:31 |
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| qwerty12 | teamcobra, penguinbait's already compiled dopewars but its not hildonised :) | 21:31 |
| Jaffa | Blafasel: no; lcuk's tried it tho' | 21:31 |
| teamcobra | Jaffa: looking at it now | 21:31 |
| * Jaffa apolgises for the plug ;-) | 21:31 | |
| teamcobra | qwerty: cool, I just did it because I knew it wouldn't fail/would make a good first try port ;) | 21:32 |
| teamcobra | the 810 = best 300 bucks I've spent in the past 10 years | 21:32 |
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| teamcobra | re: mud-builder, can it handle other types of make, like cmake/scons/qmake/blahblahblah ? | 21:34 |
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| Jaffa | teamcobra: you should try and make it to the summit in September to see some cool stuff. | 21:34 |
| hub | lardman: ok so in the end upgrading to diablo from chinook works. somebody dropped the ball at nokia, clearly | 21:35 |
| teamcobra | Jaffa: googling it to find info | 21:35 |
| teamcobra | because I just might do that | 21:35 |
| Jaffa | teamcobra: Not tried for a while. It's basically a wrapper around dh_make and is undergoing some reinvigoration: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jaffa/mud_design | 21:37 |
| teamcobra | ahh, berlin is a bit of a trip.... if I'm pulling in a bit more cash by then though, I just might pull it off | 21:39 |
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| teamcobra | hmm, milky is pretty nice, thanks for the heads up jott :) | 21:42 |
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| ryoohki | cd #nomachine | 21:44 |
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| qwerty12 | zap, just out of question, do you use scratchbox in fedora? | 21:48 |
| * qwerty12 is thinking of switching | 21:48 | |
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| mikkov_ | i have scratchbox under fedora | 21:49 |
| qwerty12 | Does it work well, minus deb related utils? | 21:49 |
| mikkov_ | default fedora9 configuration doesn't work with scratchbox :( | 21:50 |
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| mikkov_ | you have to give echo 4096 > /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr and echo 0 > /proc/sys/vm/vdso_enabled | 21:51 |
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| qwerty12 | Ah, that's easily done :). I do the same in my sysctl.conf in Ubuntu 8.04, thanks! | 21:51 |
| mikkov_ | ok, thought that it was fedora only thing :) | 21:52 |
| mikkov_ | installer probably had some minor bug :) | 21:52 |
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| teamcobra | yea, couldn't test in 8.10 because it's x86_64, grabbed 1gb ram for $20 and put it in the laptop, got a 8.04 vm in vbox that works great | 21:52 |
| teamcobra | Jaffe, mud-builder is insanely sweet ;) | 21:53 |
| sbaturzio | Aloha! | 21:53 |
| teamcobra | hello sbaturzio! | 21:53 |
| flo_lap | re | 21:53 |
| brontide | My boss is posting QR codes with a link to an internship page *gah* | 21:53 |
| t_s_o | ?! | 21:56 |
| mgedmin | Jaffa: did you build vim 7.0-0maemo1 for diablo extras-devel with mud-builder? | 21:56 |
| mgedmin | why not 7.1? | 21:56 |
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| t_s_o | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9009046382.html | 21:57 |
| teamcobra | f9 makes babies cry | 21:58 |
| zap | qwerty12: no, I'm using qemu-kvm and running Ubuntu 8.04 inside it | 21:58 |
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| zap | qwerty12: scratchbox is impossible to use on Fedora 9, on 8 it was possible | 21:58 |
| qwerty12 | zap, Ah :/ | 21:58 |
| kulve | zap: imbossible? | 21:59 |
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| kulve | s,b,p, | 21:59 |
| teamcobra | I've used linux for 13 years.... and f9, as far as sane usability defaults are concerned, is around 10 steps back from debian etch | 21:59 |
| zap | qwerty12: problem is, you can't disable VDSO on later kernels | 21:59 |
| zap | kulve: yes | 21:59 |
| mgedmin | is anyone working on scratchbox 1.x? | 21:59 |
| brontide | What, 200mb of updates a day and a network manager that doesn't always behave isn't normal ? | 21:59 |
| zap | kulve: in Fedora kernels there's no vm.vdso_enabled sysctl | 21:59 |
| mgedmin | if the kernel is incompatible with scratchbox, which one should be fixed -- kernel or scratchbox? | 22:00 |
| kulve | zap: ok. I've always compiled my own kernel (and never used fedora) | 22:00 |
| brontide | zap: I've installed sbox under f9, it's there | 22:00 |
| kulve | mgedmin: seems that fedora is incompatible, not the kernel | 22:01 |
| * mgedmin had fun debugging network-manager under ubuntu once | 22:01 | |
| zap | brontide: do a sysctl -a|grep vdso | 22:01 |
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| teamcobra | Jaffe: one quick question... I've made my package xml, and did a mud build pkgname, it pulls down the debian source, but does a source-only upload, not creating any debs/armel debs in upload/ | 22:01 |
| mgedmin | turns out, dhcp plugin scripts that do an 'exit' prevent later scripts from even running, breaking the communication chain between dhclient and n-m | 22:01 |
| zap | kulve: I know how to compile a kernel, but I have better things to do | 22:02 |
| * brontide wonders why sbox work then | 22:02 | |
| mgedmin | teamcobra: you upload the source debs to extras builder, and get binaries in extras-devel | 22:02 |
| zap | brontide: thats very strange | 22:02 |
| zap | brontide: it definitely does not work with vdso=1 | 22:02 |
| teamcobra | ohhhhh, wow, will give it a shot then | 22:02 |
| zap | at least the qemu arm emilation | 22:03 |
| brontide | this is stock f9, my work laptop | 22:03 |
| zap | what CPU? | 22:03 |
| brontide | PM | 22:03 |
| zap | hm | 22:03 |
| zap | maybe it's something core duo 2 related | 22:03 |
| brontide | possibly | 22:03 |
| brontide | It's an old D600 | 22:03 |
| zap | maybe vdso is disabled on earlier CPUs, as it maybe uses some support from hardware | 22:03 |
| brontide | Dell D600 that is | 22:03 |
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| kulve | zap: the issue came with 2.6.21 | 22:05 |
| mgedmin | vdso is purely a software thing | 22:05 |
| brontide | Oh vdso... [root@localhost ~]# sysctl -a|grep vdso | 22:05 |
| brontide | vm.vdso_enabled = 0 | 22:05 |
| mikkov_ | i have 2.6.25.11-97.fc9.i686 and sbox working | 22:05 |
| mgedmin | it's a faster ABI for making system calls | 22:05 |
| zap | brontide: very strange | 22:05 |
| kulve | I have "vm.vdso_enabled = 2" | 22:05 |
| zap | brontide: rpm -q kernel ? | 22:05 |
| brontide | kernel-2.6.25.9-76.fc9.i686 | 22:06 |
| zap | ah | 22:06 |
| zap | I'm on x86_64 | 22:06 |
| zap | perhaps thats the reason | 22:06 |
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| mgedmin | http://www.trilithium.com/johan/2005/08/linux-gate/ | 22:06 |
| brontide | Ummm... last I checked sbx was incompatible with 64bit | 22:06 |
| zap | perhaps even vdso cannot be disabled on x86_64 on any distribution? | 22:06 |
| zap | thats it then | 22:06 |
| mgedmin | could be | 22:06 |
| mgedmin | yep | 22:06 |
| kulve | brontide: sbox is quite self contained and runs on 64bit too | 22:06 |
| mgedmin | ubuntu 8.04, no vdso in /proc/sys/vm on 64-bit | 22:07 |
| zap | kulve: the 32-bit syscalls are a bit different on x86_64 | 22:07 |
| brontide | the documentation says nay, but I haven't pushed it | 22:07 |
| zap | mgedmin: does sbox work for you? | 22:07 |
| mgedmin | on 64 bit? never tried | 22:07 |
| zap | aha | 22:07 |
| mgedmin | installing scratchbox is JUST TOO MUCH HASSLE to do it on random machines | 22:07 |
| zap | :) | 22:08 |
| kulve | zap: I know that 32bit sbox works on 64bit debian | 22:08 |
| mgedmin | I did it two or three times on my laptop | 22:08 |
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| zap | I even tried to build scratchbox on fedora | 22:08 |
| zap | that was a horror | 22:08 |
| mgedmin | hm, I could run the maemo sdk installer script | 22:08 |
| mgedmin | not on the build server at work, but on my desktop at home | 22:08 |
| mgedmin | see how it fails | 22:08 |
| kulve | mgedmin: I usually install sbox from tar balls to some weird location. Works well and can be easily removed when not needed anymore.. | 22:09 |
| kulve | that can be done with the maemo installer script too | 22:09 |
| brontide | I tried under f8 x86_64 and got most of the way through before it said outright that it doesn't work under 64bit... at least until sbox 2.0+ | 22:09 |
| * zap gives another try to scratchbox-on-fedora | 22:09 | |
| zap | now that I know how it should work... :) | 22:10 |
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| brontide | then I looked at sbox 2.0 and walked away | 22:10 |
| teamcobra | is there a way to put up a build server that mirrors the functionality of the extras builder @ garage, that way I can test my packages/mud-built sources w/o just diving head first and having those packages pop up in extras-devel? (I don't want to be anyone's headache while I test things this week ;p) | 22:10 |
| teamcobra | hell, I'd even be willing to host such a vm myself w/ a launchpad ppa type interface | 22:11 |
| zap | teamcobra: isn't it enough to build a .deb on your system first? | 22:11 |
| brontide | we really need a self contained qemu ARMTEL environment that mimics the unit | 22:11 |
| zap | which can be flashed with the ROM image :) | 22:11 |
| brontide | which doesn't require a lobotomy just to be installed | 22:11 |
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| mgedmin | that would be great for testing | 22:12 |
| mgedmin | not so great for building | 22:12 |
| teamcobra | zap: heh, I've done that..... just enamored w/ mud-build now that I've seen it ;p | 22:12 |
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| RST38h | brontide: as hrw said, we need to get rid of sb | 22:13 |
| * RST38h isn't even sure why Nokia decided to implement something as convoluted as sb | 22:13 | |
| brontide | probaby becasuse it WORKSFORME | 22:14 |
| teamcobra | to be fair, sb's learning curve is low because it's just like a chroot environment | 22:14 |
| RST38h | it IS chroot environment | 22:14 |
| qwerty12 | brontide, get off the bugzilla before it takes you too! | 22:15 |
| teamcobra | rst: and that fact alone saved my hide last night when I couldn't upload the deb from my vm to my website | 22:15 |
| RST38h | brontide: yes, but they had to make a lot of non obvious and difficult steps before it started working for them | 22:15 |
| teamcobra | had to copy it out of the chroot to the vm's filesystem, then sftp from vm to host to get it out ;p | 22:15 |
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| RST38h | teamcobra: you do understand that if you did not have sb, you would never even have to think about it? | 22:16 |
| brontide | I would much rather just have a .img of an ontablet environment that runs in a vm | 22:16 |
| RST38h | You would not even need a vm | 22:16 |
| teamcobra | RST38h, without a vm and without a chroot, what do you propose? | 22:17 |
| RST38h | teamcobra: a standard cross compiling gcc environment that you can run either in Windows or in Linux | 22:18 |
| RST38h | you compile a binary and scp it to the device | 22:18 |
| teamcobra | that's what I thought ;) | 22:18 |
| RST38h | or you use packaging tools provided with the environment to make a package | 22:18 |
| teamcobra | well...... that _is_ the endgame best idea | 22:18 |
| RST38h | It is also the simplest idea to implement | 22:18 |
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| brontide | actually it's not | 22:18 |
| RST38h | So I am wondering just WHAT exactly moved Nokia guys toward doing it the way it is done | 22:19 |
| mgedmin | isn't that documented on scratchbox.org? | 22:19 |
| brontide | since you have to develop and maintain documentation, headers, and libs for every dev platform and you still need a VM for testing | 22:19 |
| teamcobra | well... what about apps dealing w/ different versions of libs (think maemo libs) | 22:19 |
| mgedmin | I remember reading something about it, and the reasons seemed plausible | 22:20 |
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| RST38h | brontide: Why do you need a VM for testing again? | 22:20 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: if you can find a url, please do | 22:20 |
| brontide | a cross-compiler only works to make the binary, you still need to test | 22:20 |
| mgedmin | RST38h: www.google.com is a url, will it do? | 22:20 |
| RST38h | brontide: and how are you supposed to test on a vm? | 22:20 |
| lardman | hub: cool, glad you got it sorted out :) | 22:21 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: not really, as I am tired and lazy | 22:21 |
| hub | lardman: yeah, it is just annoying. | 22:21 |
| lardman | hub: you should ping a Nokian about it if you're sure it's corrupt | 22:21 |
| mgedmin | RST38h: try http://scratchbox.org/documentation/general/tutorials/explained.html | 22:22 |
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| brontide | How do you propose testing in a cross-compiling environment? last I checked windows doesn't contain libosso | 22:22 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: thanks | 22:22 |
| * mgedmin is too lazy to read that page himself | 22:22 | |
| hub | lardman: it was not corrupt. | 22:22 |
| zap | scratchbox does not use on my x86_64 kernel, barfs about VDSO | 22:22 |
| RST38h | brontide: you test on a real device, and this is true even if you have a vm | 22:22 |
| hub | lardman: it is the flasher that suck monkey balls | 22:22 |
| lardman | hub: oh, fair enough; do you know why? | 22:22 |
| brontide | Sure, if we all have money to burn on devices | 22:22 |
| hub | lardman: FIASCO | 22:22 |
| RST38h | brontide: because testing it on vm is unreliable and does not reflect how it will work on a real device | 22:22 |
| zap | and since there's no way to disable VDSO on x86_64, I take this as a verdict | 22:23 |
| hub | lardman: somebody else here said they changed the layout | 22:23 |
| mgedmin | RST38h: do you propose flashing a clean OS image before each test? | 22:23 |
| RST38h | brontide: you have exactly one platform (OS2008), unless you are doing real exotic stuff with outdated versions | 22:23 |
| lardman | hub: yeah, but that shouldn't be an issue | 22:23 |
| hub | lardman: apparently the last chinook knows about it | 22:23 |
| lardman | hub: qwerty12 I guess | 22:23 |
| mgedmin | otherwise how can you be sure your package will work for someone who doesn't have those 3rd party repos & packages set up on your everyday device? | 22:23 |
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| hub | yeah I think | 22:23 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: I propose targeting the latest version for testing and letting beta testers test the rest, if they really need it | 22:23 |
| qwerty12 | lardman, moi? I would never say such a thing. | 22:23 |
| qwerty12 | :P | 22:23 |
| lardman | qwerty12: :D | 22:23 |
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| mgedmin | RST38h: that was not my question | 22:23 |
| hub | qwerty12: it did work just be reflashing diablo after chinook | 22:24 |
| hub | s/be/by/ | 22:24 |
| qwerty12 | I said they changed partition layout. I guess chinook NOLO can read those changes. | 22:24 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: the answer to your last question is that if your program requires and external package, it will not work without that package, either on vm or on real device | 22:24 |
| hub | qwerty12: yeah well, that did the trick | 22:24 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: so, your question is kinda void | 22:24 |
| mgedmin | no it isn't | 22:24 |
| mgedmin | real-world problem | 22:25 |
| mgedmin | you build a deb that works for you, but nobody else | 22:25 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: so? | 22:25 |
| lardman | qwerty12, hub: still it's a bit strange | 22:25 |
| mgedmin | because that deb depends on other debs that you have from a random 3rd party repo | 22:25 |
| mgedmin | and you didn't notice | 22:25 |
| hub | lardman: no source code, none can tell | 22:25 |
| brontide | Testing on real hardware is critical, but that also limits development to hackers with hardware. A VM based system would allow 90%+ of the coverage of a real device and allow clean installs and reversion. If my n810 is in the shop/home/with my wife playing mahjong I should still be able to program | 22:25 |
| lardman | hub: tell me about it ;) | 22:25 |
| hub | lardman: i just did ;-) | 22:25 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: well, do not be careless about dependencies | 22:26 |
| mgedmin | :) | 22:26 |
| mgedmin | if you're very careful, you don't need testing | 22:26 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: and use beta testers | 22:26 |
| qwerty12 | lardman, yeah :/. I still think flashing the xloader, nolo,initfs etc and the config partition from the diablo image and rebooted would have worked :P :) | 22:26 |
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| RST38h | If you *really* want a VM, nothing prevents Nokia from throwing in a standalone QEMU based VM with the SDK | 22:26 |
| lardman | qwerty12: I thought that's what he did? | 22:26 |
| RST38h | You do not need sb for that | 22:27 |
| lardman | qwerty12: anyway, not to worry, not bricked :) | 22:27 |
| qwerty12 | lardman, he did it from chinook, but I guess what you say is true :) | 22:27 |
| qwerty12 | Yeah :) | 22:27 |
| RST38h | But, again, I do not find testing on the VM neither reliable nor necessary | 22:27 |
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| brontide | But if Nokia's going to support a qemu vm environment, why waste time on sbox | 22:27 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: the thought of flashing nolo gives me the creeps | 22:27 |
| RST38h | http://scratchbox.org/documentation/general/tutorials/explained.html <-- does not really explain why they would create such a monstrosity | 22:28 |
| hub | qwerty12: I had already installed chinook in the mean time | 22:28 |
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| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, Hehe, but it has to be done, muhahaha | 22:28 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: you have Brick insurance? :P | 22:28 |
| hub | qwerty12: I just jumped too many release, probably because the website stalled at 20MB previously | 22:28 |
| hub | anyway thanks for the help | 22:28 |
| RST38h | brontide: so far, nobody form Nokia is talking about a standalone vm env | 22:29 |
| qwerty12 | hub, Yeah, I think I downgraded to the first fiasco image, upgraded to chinook, then to diablo when I messed up my wifi playing with a tool I shouldn't have been playing with... | 22:29 |
| RST38h | brontide: the best you can hope for is the completion of sb2 | 22:29 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, Will getting a serial cable that fits the N800 be the same? :P | 22:29 |
| RST38h | brontide: which, thankfully, does not lock you in chrooted environment | 22:29 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: atleast the debian armel port has qemu VMs running debian armel that compiles debian armel.. | 22:29 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: depends on how much you can screw up :P | 22:29 |
| * qwerty12 already has a service cable for my phone that I once used when I bricked it... | 22:29 | |
| lardman | Stskeeps: it's actually reasonably safe, if you look at the messages which come out, it checks to make sure it's got a good version before flashing it | 22:30 |
| RST38h | Sts: This sounds like something done by a personal who has no real life. | 22:30 |
| RST38h | s/personal/person | 22:30 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: I think it would be pretty hard to make a real brick | 22:30 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: yes, but it's better than compiling debian packages on a slow armel board.. :P | 22:30 |
| RST38h | Sts: I still do not understand why you can't CROSSCOMPILE armel packages | 22:30 |
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| brontide | because it's no less uninviting to developers than sb | 22:31 |
| qwerty12 | lardman, nah, insert fanoush's module, use mtd-utils to write /dev/null to /dev/mtd0 :P | 22:31 |
| chelli | Stskeeps: debian soes not allow compiling official packages in emulated environments, there was a very long flame-war because of such a setup last year ;-) | 22:31 |
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| lardman | qwerty12: there's always one! ;p | 22:31 |
| Stskeeps | chelli: i'm sometimes considering that debian is -actually- hell, with all the flame wars.. | 22:31 |
| jott | RST38h: you can crosscompile them. but there are quite a few applications that compile an intermediate tool that process further files etc. | 22:31 |
| qwerty12 | I cooked that up in 2 seconds, ooh, aren't I evil | 22:31 |
| RST38h | jott: And that tool only runs on armel? | 22:32 |
| jott | RST38h: and when you run this on an x86 host this would fail. | 22:32 |
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| RST38h | jott: I mean, it is a command line tool with stdin and stdout and it runs on armel only? | 22:32 |
| Stskeeps | my problem with scratchbox has been that often qemu-vm died horridly when there's an intermediate tool | 22:32 |
| RST38h | jott: then I suggest to throw this tool away as a piece of garbage it is | 22:32 |
| Stskeeps | try porting python | 22:32 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:32 |
| jott | RST38h: yes if you have "niftyhelper.c" that is needed to process "bigpile.tmpl" | 22:32 |
| chelli | Stskeeps: afaik debian uses a few Thecus N2100 as buildd machines for armel | 22:32 |
| RST38h | jott: and that niftyhelper can't run on x86? how so? | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | i often just ended up doing sbrsh to my n800 and be happy, and go for a long coffee | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:33 |
| jott | RST38h: many bindings for interpreted languages suffer from this | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: because you just cross compiled it for armel.. | 22:33 |
| RST38h | jott: well, fuck 'em | 22:33 |
| jott | RST38h: if you put work into it it will work.. | 22:33 |
| jott | sure | 22:33 |
| RST38h | Sts: I can create a separate target for intermediate tools, no big deal there | 22:34 |
| Stskeeps | someone should create a qemu armel VM that runs a subset of maemo | 22:34 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:34 |
| jott | and nobody actually stops you from simply using the gcc from sbox in your host to crosscompile without sbox | 22:34 |
| chelli | Stskeeps: see http://db.debian.org/machines.cgi for a list of official machines and i really share your opinion regarding flamewars ;-) | 22:34 |
| RST38h | Sts: In fact, a decent makefile will have this already | 22:34 |
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| Stskeeps | chelli: i've had debian-legal after me, both in email and irc. that was fun enough. (insert sarcasm) | 22:34 |
| Stskeeps | and i even didn't want them to package my product | 22:35 |
| jott | RST38h: if the world only would be that easy in the land of oss confusion :) | 22:35 |
| Stskeeps | didn't someone make Maemo run on a qemu VM, as in, standalone OS? | 22:35 |
| Stskeeps | i remember some screenshot | 22:35 |
| chelli | Stskeeps: what is you product? ;-) | 22:35 |
| Stskeeps | chelli: google debian-legal unrealircd | 22:35 |
| Stskeeps | (i think) | 22:35 |
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| Stskeeps | many years ago | 22:36 |
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| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, If you didn't want them to package your ircd, should have shown them your middle finger | 22:37 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: /whois stskeeps | 22:37 |
| Stskeeps | it's been like that since that period. | 22:37 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:37 |
| chelli | :) | 22:37 |
| Stskeeps | (insert irony that i like making debian work on tablets when i dont always share their values.. :P) | 22:37 |
| chelli | i guess, i really know why i do not read debian-legal ;-) | 22:37 |
| RST38h | jott: I do not think OSS has anything to do with this | 22:39 |
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| Stskeeps | is gcc armel under -ARMEL target? | 22:40 |
| RST38h | jott: But a few people with a lot of paid time on their hands and unhealthy obsession with doing stuff for the sake of doing stuff... | 22:40 |
| Stskeeps | as in, armel instrution set | 22:40 |
| RST38h | Sts: Don't think so | 22:40 |
| RST38h | Wouldn't compile so fast | 22:40 |
| jott | RST38h: well, i meant the fact that in a usual oss environment alot of different libraries and tools are involved which tend to use different build systems etc. | 22:40 |
| jott | (which then increases the likelihood that things break with a plain crosscompile) | 22:41 |
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| jott | that's why there is scratchbox, openembedded, t2 and others. | 22:42 |
| RST38h | jott: then you either throw away things that break or recompile them on a native system (see above) | 22:42 |
| RST38h | jott: + file a bug with the maintainers | 22:43 |
| jott | RST38h: sure there are solutions... | 22:43 |
| Stskeeps | -/usr/lib/gcc/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/3.4.4/cc1: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.4.17, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped | 22:43 |
| RST38h | Sts: Oh my god... | 22:43 |
| jott | RST38h: but it's ususally not *that* easy. | 22:43 |
| Stskeeps | (sb) | 22:43 |
| jott | (as in time and effort) | 22:43 |
| RST38h | jott: even Symbian has a normal SDK with a normal cross compiler | 22:44 |
| RST38h | jott: even Windows CE does! | 22:44 |
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| RST38h | jott: why the hell are we supposed to go through this crap? =) | 22:44 |
| jott | RST38h: yes, see above. they have other constraints than a usual oss environment. | 22:44 |
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| RST38h | jott: Well, I have just been looking on a MIPS-based SoC that runs Linux as an option | 22:45 |
| RST38h | jott: It has a standard cross compiling SDK | 22:45 |
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| RST38h | how is it different? | 22:45 |
| jott | RST38h: how did they build the base system? | 22:46 |
| jott | RST38h: if you restrict to a subset of tools and things, you can provide an sdk. | 22:46 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: the issue mentioned about make process with some friendly helper just means that the Makefile is not cross compiling compatible.. | 22:46 |
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| Stskeeps | which is where stuff like sb is needed :/ | 22:46 |
| jott | like a plain gtk sdk. | 22:46 |
| robink | Woah, weird; this chat session should be dead. | 22:46 |
| Stskeeps | or an actual machine with the target arch | 22:47 |
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| robink | I had to change my V6 address. | 22:47 |
| RST38h | jott: Well, you probably can't build the kernel with their SDK but you can build apps just fine | 22:47 |
| Stskeeps | robink: zombie chat sessions! | 22:47 |
| robink | Stskeeps: Indeed. | 22:47 |
| RST38h | jott: And 99% developers are not compiling kernels | 22:47 |
| jott | RST38h: sure, as i said. if you restrict to a defined subset you can provide a simple sdk. | 22:48 |
| jott | it's just that there are quite a few apps where the buildsystem is not ready for crosscompilation. | 22:49 |
| jott | if you start your own projects with just the sdk dependencies everything is fine. | 22:49 |
| robink | BRB, reconnecting. | 22:50 |
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| RST38h | jott: As I said: depending on how badly you need them, either throw them out or compile natively | 22:51 |
| jott | RST38h: but you are right, nokia could provide an sdk for direct gui development. | 22:51 |
| * RST38h does not need direct gui development | 22:51 | |
| jott | RST38h: yes. and to automate this scratchbox/openembedded/t2 where developed ;) | 22:51 |
| RST38h | [just need an sdk that exists in the same environment as I do] | 22:52 |
| jott | (i.e. compile "natively" or via qemu if necessary and do the rest with the host gcc) | 22:52 |
| RST38h | But I do not want to compile *my stuff* natively | 22:52 |
| RST38h | If python guys can't get their makefile act together, they are welcome to suffer | 22:52 |
| RST38h | But why make me suffer? My stuff cross compiles perfectly fine | 22:53 |
| jott | :) | 22:53 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: you may technically be able to take a debian armel running in a qemu armel vm, copy over your maemo rootfs, chroot into it, apt-get in gcc and stuff needed, and instant good devel environment :P | 22:53 |
| Stskeeps | without all the crap | 22:54 |
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| hrw | re | 22:54 |
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| Stskeeps | you obviously canÃ't runui apps so easily but.. X forwarding? :P | 22:54 |
| hrw | Stskeeps: you like to combine... | 22:54 |
| Stskeeps | hrw: i like wacky solutions | 22:55 |
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| hrw | qemu can boot maemo on n800/n810 emu | 22:55 |
| RST38h | Sts: Once again: I do not want to take debian armel running in qemu armel vm | 22:55 |
| Stskeeps | well there you go :P | 22:55 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: alright | 22:55 |
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| RST38h | Sts: I just want to boot my Windows XP, start up FAR, write a makefile and type "make" | 22:55 |
| jott | RST38h: why not use host gcc and crosscompile? ;) | 22:55 |
| RST38h | jott: 'Cause there is no crosscompiling sdk right now | 22:56 |
| RST38h | the only two sdks are sb1 (insulated from your home env) and sb2 (better, but still not entirely your host env) | 22:57 |
| jott | RST38h: start scratchbox, install all -dev packages you need, copy the target dir and dump scratchbox ;) | 22:57 |
| jott | or use openembedded ;) | 22:57 |
| RST38h | jott: Stskeeps> -/usr/lib/gcc/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/3.4.4/cc1: ELF 32-bit LSB | 22:57 |
| RST38h | +executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.4.17, dynamically linked | 22:57 |
| RST38h | +(uses shared libs), stripped | 22:57 |
| RST38h | <Stskeeps> -/usr/lib/gcc/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/3.4.4/cc1: ELF 32-bit LSB | 22:57 |
| RST38h | +executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.4.17, dynamically linked | 22:57 |
| RST38h | +(uses shared libs), stripped | 22:57 |
| brontide | and hope you don't need updates | 22:57 |
| RST38h | jott: See above | 22:57 |
| Stskeeps | (that's from -ARMEL though) | 22:58 |
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| Stskeeps | -X86 may have cross compilation for armel thoug | 22:58 |
| RST38h | Not really | 22:58 |
| * RST38h tried once, no bagel | 22:58 | |
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| jott | file /scratchbox/compilers/cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5-arm/bin/arm-linux-gcc | 23:00 |
| jott | /scratchbox/compilers/cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5-arm/bin/arm-linux-gcc: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.0.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped | 23:00 |
| jott | or what do you mean? | 23:00 |
| Stskeeps | ah, thought that might be hiding somewhere | 23:01 |
| hrw | have a nice rest of day guys | 23:01 |
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| Stskeeps | you can get the same from codesourcery's site, can't you? | 23:02 |
| jott | yes | 23:02 |
| jott | if they still link it ;) | 23:02 |
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| Stskeeps | there's a "g++" lite 2008q1-126 for arm, ia32 gnu/linux tar.. think s | 23:03 |
| Stskeeps | o | 23:03 |
| jott | 2008 is gcc 4 ... | 23:04 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 23:04 |
| jott | RST38h: you should really be able to dump scratchbox without very big effort and just use the toolchain from it :) | 23:05 |
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| corq-ubu | is there a maemo hackers edition for Diablo, perhaps unofficial? | 23:07 |
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| jott | i bet you could even fetch the cs2005 for windows and crosscompile under windows with the nokia rootstrap and maybe a few extrafiles | 23:09 |
| zanshin | If I run Xomap as a regular user I get this error message executing it with strace: geteuid32() = 1000 | 23:12 |
| zanshin | write(2, "\nFatal server error:\n"..., 21 | 23:12 |
| zanshin | Fatal server error: | 23:12 |
| zanshin | ) = 21 | 23:12 |
| zanshin | write(2, "LinuxInit: Server must be suid ro"..., 36LinuxInit: Server must be suid root | 23:12 |
| zanshin | ) = 36 | 23:12 |
| zanshin | -r-sr-xr-x 1 root root 1358656 Jul 31 2008 /usr/bin/Xomap | 23:12 |
| zanshin | it's suid root isn't it? | 23:13 |
| Stskeeps | 'lo zanshin | 23:13 |
| * zanshin wonders | 23:13 | |
| zanshin | hey Stskeeps how was your trip in the mountains? | 23:13 |
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| Stskeeps | zanshin: interesting, but could have been better.. | 23:14 |
| atka_ | hello ^^ | 23:14 |
| Stskeeps | zanshin: i think that means that owner can do the setuid.. not entirely sure | 23:14 |
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| Stskeeps | zanshin: try chmod a+s? | 23:14 |
| zanshin | ok | 23:14 |
| Stskeeps | zanshin: are you struggling with Xomap from 2008HE? | 23:14 |
| Stskeeps | or ours? | 23:14 |
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| zanshin | Xomap from 2008HE. I contacted the maintainer of Xomap about the error I send you and he said it's kernel related. Either we need a new kernel or use the old Xomap | 23:17 |
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| zanshin | I talked to johnx about it and he said it isn't worth the trouble of a new kernel | 23:17 |
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| *** booiiing_ has joined #maemo | 23:18 | |
| zanshin | as the new Xomap hasn't advantages for the 770 | 23:18 |
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| zanshin | chmod a+s doesn't work either. Running it as root works though | 23:18 |
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| summatusmentis | so, logo contest was decided, when can we buy the t-shirts? | 23:19 |
| hrw|gone | all: if you have n800 or n810 and you disabled lifeguard-reset (via flasher) then please send me /dev/mtd1 from your tablet - email: maemo@haerwu.biz | 23:21 |
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| hrw|gone | zanshin: 2.6.18 from os2007 works on 770 with xomap from os2007. thats what we use in poky | 23:22 |
| hrw|gone | bye | 23:22 |
| jott | hrw|gone: working on full n8x0 qemu again? :) | 23:22 |
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| BULLE | DarkAudit: | 23:24 |
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| GNUton | X-Fade: ping | 23:26 |
| GNUton | hi | 23:26 |
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| jott | hello | 23:27 |
| X-Fade | GNUton: pong ;) | 23:27 |
| jott | haha :) | 23:28 |
| jott | nice error ;) | 23:28 |
| jott | cp: writing `debian/libqt4-webkit-dbg//usr/lib/libQtWebKit.so.4.4.0.debug': No space left on device | 23:28 |
| RST38h | no shit... | 23:28 |
| GNUton | X-Fade: :/ | 23:28 |
| GNUton | jott: :( | 23:28 |
| lcuk | jott, im used to seeing those errors ;) | 23:29 |
| X-Fade | GNUton: EEK! | 23:29 |
| X-Fade | GNUton: At least we have a lot of progress with the package. | 23:29 |
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| X-Fade | GNUton: But this needs to be fixed. | 23:29 |
| jott | indeed | 23:29 |
| GNUton | X-Fade: I´m very unlucky!! :( | 23:29 |
| X-Fade | GNUton: I'll ask Ed to look into it. | 23:29 |
| GNUton | X-Fade: ok thank you! | 23:30 |
| jott | X-Fade: run docpurge ;) | 23:30 |
| X-Fade | GNUton: Btw, it would be a good idea to not include the documentation files. | 23:31 |
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| jott | X-Fade: might be useful for scratchbox. | 23:32 |
| jott | (they are in a separate package anyway) | 23:32 |
| jott | but you are probably right | 23:32 |
| X-Fade | jott: Ah ;) | 23:32 |
| X-Fade | jott: Well, separate package is no problem. | 23:32 |
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| jott | but why the heck the buildserver has less than 5-6gb hdd space free? ;p | 23:34 |
| X-Fade | jott: I have no idea.. | 23:34 |
| derf | It's probably some blade in a rack somewhere with a 20 GB hdd. | 23:34 |
| X-Fade | jott: Perhaps old builds are kept for debugging. | 23:34 |
| mikkov_ | I think that one of the builders is like <1 GHz ;) | 23:35 |
| X-Fade | mikkov_: I think they are all on the same physical hardware. | 23:35 |
| jott | we will narrow down the "nokia runs everything on 770 as servers"-theory :) | 23:35 |
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| X-Fade | jott: Well, I have 4 shiny new servers for maemo.org :) | 23:36 |
| X-Fade | And no, not a cluster of N810's ;) | 23:36 |
| jott | n810 instead of zhe 770 ? | 23:36 |
| jott | ah ;) | 23:36 |
| jott | ok ;) | 23:36 |
| jott | any eta for them? | 23:37 |
| macoute | jott: no, theyre using n800 as its more inexpensive ;) | 23:37 |
| X-Fade | Current setup was a test, now we need to scale up. | 23:37 |
| mikkov_ | X-Fade: care to tell server specs? | 23:38 |
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| X-Fade | mikkov_: for maemo.org? | 23:39 |
| mikkov_ | X-Fade: for those new servers | 23:39 |
| jott | the 4 shiny new servers you mentioned i guess :) | 23:39 |
| X-Fade | 3 dual core xeons and a quadcore xeon. | 23:39 |
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| chelli | GNUton: it really seems that you want to try out all possible failure reasons of the autobuilder ;-) | 23:42 |
| GNUton | jott, X-Fade the Qt documentation takes "only" 319Mb. | 23:42 |
| GNUton | chelli: I tryed them!! | 23:42 |
| GNUton | all | 23:42 |
| X-Fade | GNUton: Blah ;) Good thing I have you .orig.tar.gz file as hot backup ;) | 23:43 |
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| * GNUton think that X-Fade will kill me on the maemo summit... | 23:44 | |
| X-Fade | GNUton: Nah... | 23:44 |
| GNUton | X-Fade: :) | 23:44 |
| chelli | :) | 23:45 |
| GNUton | X-Fade: ok I hope... but I´m very sad to give you all this problem.. | 23:45 |
| GNUton | problems | 23:45 |
| GNUton | these | 23:45 |
| X-Fade | GNUton: I'll try to contact the right people to get more and better builders. | 23:45 |
| X-Fade | GNUton: Don't worry. | 23:45 |
| X-Fade | GNUton: I have put the big file in place again. So when I get the ok from Ed, I'll restart the build. | 23:46 |
| GNUton | X-Fade: k, I trust in you. | 23:46 |
| X-Fade | GNUton: lol. | 23:46 |
| chelli | X-Fade: any ideas for #3466, it seems that GNUton had a lot of problems with it, as far as i look into the mailinglist of the autobuilder. i hope this can be fixed until i will try out the next upload of gnumeric ;-) | 23:47 |
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| jott | meanwhile we can start with the qt 4.4.1 package ;) | 23:47 |
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| X-Fade | GNUton: How long does your scp tell you it takes to upload that 106 MB file? | 23:48 |
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| GNUton | X-Fade: It takes more than 1 hour.. probably 1 hour and 30 minutes.. | 23:49 |
| lcuk | gnuton, just pretend to throw a glass of beer @ X-Fade.. | 23:49 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: Kees already did that last time ;) | 23:49 |
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| lcuk | :D see you will be watching out for it | 23:50 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: Soaked my N95 btw. | 23:50 |
| GNUton | lcuk: yeah! :) | 23:50 |
| lcuk | :O you never said lol | 23:50 |
| X-Fade | chelli: Ed can't seem to reproduce it. He was testing it out yesterday. | 23:51 |
| chelli | hmm | 23:51 |
| X-Fade | GNUton: I think your upload stalls. | 23:51 |
| X-Fade | GNUton: So it just hangs there. | 23:51 |
| X-Fade | GNUton: I have seen your upload of the big file stay the same size for an hour. | 23:51 |
| mikkov_ | GNUton: do you upload tar.gz as last? | 23:52 |
| mikkov_ | GNUton: i mean first :) | 23:52 |
| GNUton | X-Fade: are u sure? | 23:53 |
| GNUton | X-Fade: I have a 2Mb cable internet connection.. | 23:53 |
| X-Fade | GNUton: I have seen it sit at 60MB for an hour yesterday or the day before. | 23:53 |
| X-Fade | GNUton: Have you seen ssh disconnects? | 23:54 |
| GNUton | no never. | 23:54 |
| X-Fade | Hmm | 23:54 |
| GNUton | it stall some time but only for few seconds.. | 23:54 |
| GNUton | times | 23:54 |
| X-Fade | I really need to make that build from garage plugin ;) | 23:56 |
| Blafasel | Stupid question: The autobuilder stuff just uses scp, right? | 23:56 |
| X-Fade | Blafasel: dput uses scp, yes. | 23:56 |
| mikkov_ | you can use scp directly | 23:57 |
| X-Fade | Trye. | 23:57 |
| X-Fade | true | 23:57 |
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| Blafasel | Okay. Following the stupid question a stupid idea: Did you think about something like this? Trying to keep the session alive artificially? http://www.revsys.com/writings/quicktips/ssh-faster-connections.html | 23:57 |
| Blafasel | i.e. giving a shell that just outputs a "." every N seconds, reused? Not even sure if that is feasible though. | 23:58 |
| Blafasel | That would involve upload (build stuff) and downstream traffic (...... from the shell). | 23:59 |
| Blafasel | But as I said: It might be a brainded idea. | 23:59 |
| Blafasel | dead, even | 23:59 |
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