IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2008-07-16

zap	rm_you: but it's really called osso-software-version-unlocked-rx34\|rx44 ?	00:00
rm_you	no	00:00
rm_you	it is generic	00:00
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rm_you	you can not worry at all about the hardware version, the package deals with it	00:00
rm_you	just installing "osso-software-version-unlocked" provides the correct unlocked package	00:01
zap	hmm, cool	00:01
rm_you	and automatically removes the locked version	00:01
zap	osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked	00:02
zap	that's how its called on my n810	00:02
rm_you	right	00:02
rm_you	and osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked on n800	00:02
zap	Provides: osso-software-version-variant	00:02
rm_you	right	00:02
zap	maybe it should depend on osso-software-version-variant ?	00:02
rm_you	no	00:02
zap	I can't get it how it works	00:02
rm_you	it's complicated	00:02
zap	it shouldn't be	00:03
rm_you	right but it ia	00:03
rm_you	*is	00:03
rm_you	and theres nothing we can do about it	00:03
zap	well I just want to understand :)	00:03
rm_you	right so I'll try to explain how my package works	00:03
zap	Provides: osso-software-version-variant \| Conflicts: osso-software-version-variant	00:03
zap	how cool	00:03
rm_you	yeah it is dumb	00:03
rm_you	I think I will add it to -devel and post on ITT about it	00:04
zap	so if a package depends on osso-software-version-unlocked, it automatically installs osso-software-version-rx??-unlocked?	00:07
zap	can you try apt-get -f install after that?	00:07
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rm_you	yes and it is perfectly finr	00:08
rm_you	*fine	00:08
rm_you	what it actually does	00:08
rm_you	and this is sort of a hack, but works excellently...	00:08
zap	I don't understand how it works, and this makes me worry	00:09
rm_you	it installs my package, osso-software-version-unlocked, which then looks at your system and decides which REAL package to install	00:09
zap	ah	00:09
zap	your package	00:09
rm_you	and the debs for both ship with my package	00:09
rm_you	right	00:09
zap	now I got it	00:09
rm_you	so you install osso-software-version-unlocked, it puts osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked_4.2008.23-14_all.deb and osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked_4.2008.23-14_all.deb in /usr/share/osso-software-version-unlocked/	00:10
rm_you	and then in the postinst, it looks and sees which one you need, and dpkg installs it	00:10
zap	clever	00:11
rm_you	yeah	00:11
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zap	ok wish you luck and g'night :)	00:12
rm_you	and since REALLY the only thing that block the installation of newer system packages is osso-software-version-rx#4 (the locked thing), since my package REPLACES that, it is forced to be uninstalled, and the -locked package isnt actually required at that stage of install	00:12
rm_you	and can be put back in place later :P	00:12
rm_you	:)	00:12
rm_you	night	00:12
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rm_you	lardman\|gone: yo?	00:23
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jott	rm_you: what's the problem with installing a specific -unlock package? i think it's not a good manner to install packages with dpkg in the maintainer scripts...	00:34
rm_you	yes it is horrible BUT	00:34
rm_you	this allows it to be automated	00:34
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rm_you	for instance, i recompiled xserver-xomap with a higher version string	00:35
rm_you	and with Requires: osso-software-unlocked	00:35
rm_you	and then i just did "apt-get install xserver-xomap"	00:35
jott	i think it's not that bad to force users installing the unlock package to make them aware what is going on..	00:35
rm_you	and it automatically removes the locked one and installs the correct unlocked one	00:35
jott	i would hate when this happens..	00:36
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jott	when apt-get does something unpredictable	00:36
rm_you	I just know how many people have been complaining about not being able to automatically select the unlocked package for installation	00:36
rm_you	how is it unpredictable?	00:37
jott	normally apt-get shows me what it does beforehand (which packages it will install and remove)	00:37
rm_you	it says: "installing extra packages: osso-software-version-unlocked"	00:37
rm_you	and also "removing packages: osso-software-version-rx#4" (locked)	00:37
jott	yeah but it does not do that..	00:37
rm_you	no, it does	00:37
jott	it also install other packages	00:38
rm_you	one	00:38
jott	yes	00:38
jott	no matter if one or 1000	00:38
rm_you	but it is just the non-generic version of the package you DID tell it to install	00:38
jott	that's why i want apt-get to tell me the truth	00:38
rm_you	it is not possible to do that :(	00:38
jott	i can't see what's hard about installing the -unlocked package if you want an unlocked device..	00:39
rm_you	well for instance i am making a package called "rotation-support"	00:40
rm_you	i want it to automatically switch to unlocked when they install that	00:40
Veggen	evening.	00:40
rm_you	because there is no way for me to make apt explain how to fix the problem if they try to install it and it says can't install" because of deps	00:40
rm_you	normal users will be clueless	00:41
rm_you	it needs to smoothly switch over to unlocked	00:41
jott	it should say "need either osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked or osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked"	00:42
rm_you	it doesn't	00:42
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rm_you	instead it just says random stuff about depends and how it cant install	00:43
jott	hm? why not? thos should be in Required for every package breaking osso-software-version-rxXX	00:43
rm_you	but you can't do that	00:43
rm_you	or can you?	00:43
jott	mh? Require: osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked \| osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked	00:43
rm_you	dont think you can require "X or Y"	00:43
rm_you	err	00:44
jott	sure	00:44
rm_you	but how does the device know which to install?	00:44
jott	it will cry :P	00:44
jott	but should state what options there are	00:44
jott	that is "unlock your device if you want to mess with it"	00:44
jott	maybe some wrapper package could be made..aka "unlock-n800" which just requires osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked	00:45
jott	to make it transparent	00:45
jott	or atleast more transparent	00:46
rm_you	i suppose you could do it that way <_<	00:46
rm_you	personally I appreciate the automation, and yes it is a hack, but not a horrible one, as it does exactly what you want	00:46
jott	i admit the "osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked" package name is rather confusing for a normal user ;)	00:46
jott	i think it's horrible	00:46
jott	because it's not how a deb should work	00:47
rm_you	well, this is not how the entire dependency system should work	00:47
rm_you	but that's how it does	00:47
rm_you	sooo....	00:47
rm_you	are there even any differences between rx34 and rx44 unlocked? >_<	00:48
jott	mh ;)	00:48
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jott	oh and it might be good to actually use an extra package for the rotation xserver that Provides the normal xserver	00:49
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jott	this way it's easier to uninstall	00:50
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rm_you	err	00:50
rm_you	ah	00:50
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rm_you	so that to uninstall, you just reinstall "xserver-xomap"?	00:50
jott	yes	00:50
rm_you	sec i will do that right now	00:51
jott	i think you also have to "Replace" it..	00:51
jott	well needs obviously some testing ;)	00:51
rm_you	yes	00:51
rm_you	Replaces: xserver-xomap; Provides: xserver, xserver-xomap	00:52
rm_you	i believe	00:52
rm_you	or maybe just	00:52
rm_you	Replaces: xserver-xomap; Provides: xserver	00:52
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rm_you	I think replaces is fine, things that depend on xserver-xomap should see that and be ok	00:52
jott	i think both..?!	00:52
Veggen	hhmm.	00:56
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Veggen	sip over openvpn was a little chatty for gprs from a small village in alps.	00:56
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Talus46_n810	greetings	00:57
Talus46_n810	how can i enable execution of a.out files in the n810?	00:58
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jott	Veggen: hah just a "little"? ;)	01:01
Veggen	jott: no - it was seriously affecting everything else .)	01:02
solmumaha	Talus46_n810: ./a.out in xterm	01:02
wnd	Talus46_n810, are you really talking about a.out executables and not just executables in general, or elf-executables named a.out?	01:02
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fnordianslip	hmm. i'm looking through the syslogs from my attempts to boot with my custom kernel and I'm wondering if the following is the reason for the reboot ...	01:12
fnordianslip	Jul 15 21:05:36 Nokia-N800-23-14 DSME: '/usr/sbin/wlancond' spawning too fast -> reset	01:12
fnordianslip	Jul 15 21:05:36 Nokia-N800-23-14 DSME: Here we will request for sw reset	01:12
lbt	anyone know about xgettext?	01:13
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fnordianslip	any ideas on my reboot issue ^^^	01:20
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fnordianslip	ah, itT search shows that is indeed the cause of the reboot. now to figure out what's going on with wlancond I guess.	01:26
crashanddie	GAN800, n810 been running for 6hours 20 minutes, and battery manager still displays 3hours of uptime left	01:26
rm_you	with gpsd?	01:28
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ShadowJK	does gpsd access the gps even if no applications want a gps fix?	01:32
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rm_you	hrm i believe so?	01:36
rm_you	it would need to be able to respond instantly to a request	01:36
rm_you	not have to ON REQUEST take a while to initiate connection, and do a cold-start >_>	01:37
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crashanddie	rm_you, yeah	01:38
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ShadowJK	hm	01:40
ShadowJK	gpsd is running when you've got "enable gps" ticked in control panel?	01:40
crashanddie	no, don't think so	01:40
ShadowJK	hm	01:41
crashanddie	from what I gather, "enable gps" is only to activate the link to the gps device, but it's "on"	01:41
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* lcuk3 gets frustrated		02:24
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summatusmentis	frustrated?	02:25
lcuk	yes, im calling a line of code which is locking up my nit so hard ive gotta pop the battery	02:25
lcuk	it started last night but ive not had a chance to debug it till now	02:25
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rm_you	lcuk	02:26
lcuk	yer	02:26
summatusmentis	ouch	02:26
jott	lcuk: you could renice the process while debugging so it will be a more multi-task friendly..	02:26
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lcuk	its the first time this has ever been a problem	02:27
jott	i was only hit by oom problems ...	02:27
lcuk	its seriously locking the machine - im pretty sure it will be cured in a few minutes (ive got it down to a single call :))	02:27
lcuk	i'd rather not mess with nicing	02:28
lcuk	theres not been a need till now, i tihnk im sending an invalid pointer and the function is writing all over the wrong memory	02:28
lcuk	:D heh, yer thats what it was	02:29
lcuk	.... , (JSAMPARRAY) buffer , .... instead of .... , (JSAMPARRAY) &buffer , ....	02:30
jott	yieks :)	02:30
jott	glad you found it	02:30
lcuk	i would never let anything like that out without testing. i try to test everything and dont do much until code is stable :)	02:31
lcuk	infact - this is the first time ive gone to sleep with a broken function	02:32
lcuk	as in known bad BOOOOOM broken, not just doesnt do what i want	02:32
lcuk	OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG	02:34
lcuk	it works ;)	02:34
lcuk	liqbase can now load (greyscale) jpegs :D	02:34
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jott	nice ;)	02:36
jott	with your own jpeg decoder? ;)	02:36
lcuk	nahhh, using jpeglib, a few weeks ago i made the colorblit and allowed blitting of arbitary in memory bitmaps, i just needed a way to load and save them	02:37
lcuk	it shouldv been in last night nice and quickly, but for that damned &	02:37
lcuk	its bugged me all day wondering why it was such a heavy crash	02:38
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jott	bleh and i was just hit by non-unique keys in a pixmap cache .. another 20 minutes lost :P	02:47
lcuk	these things pop up at the worst times	02:48
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crashanddie	update: n810 been running for 9 hours with the gps enabled and tracking, and still reports 1 hour of battery life	02:57
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t_s_o	it seems microb have gotten kind of a issue. it wants to continually reload whatever pages i open, either ending in a classical firefox error about a reload loop, or a small html plage that reads RELOAD: with a link to the page i was trying to open under it...	03:02
Kegetys	do you happen to have the automatic redirection setting disabled	03:08
t_s_o	i turned it of after the first time i had this issue, but nothing changed. it even tries this on the start page while in offline mode...	03:09
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t_s_o	the strangest thing is the url line for that last page: data:text/html,<title>Reload</title><h1>Reload:</h1> and so on	03:12
t_s_o	its as if the html of the page spills into the url line...	03:12
lcuk	whats the site	03:13
t_s_o	it do not tell, its as if its a local page, stored on the tablet itself	03:13
lcuk	is this when you open ANY url from favorites list, or just the index.html	03:14
t_s_o	it also seems that browserd no longer wants to run at startup. and when started via terminal it spills a whole lot of export stuff onto screen	03:14
t_s_o	lcuk: any from favorites	03:14
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lcuk	remove any addins you have	03:16
lcuk	seems logical thing to try at least: they end up in the page content of every page dont they	03:17
t_s_o	dint have any	03:17
t_s_o	dont	03:17
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wiza	t_s_o: that's normal data uri	03:18
wiza	t_s_o: just not widely used since ie doesn't support it	03:18
t_s_o	ok	03:18
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t_s_o	hmm, should browserd autostart if its not running and a browser window is opened?	03:26
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t_s_o	bah, this is like poking a windows box with a stick...	03:30
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t_s_o	interesting, it seems that maybe af-defines.sh is no longer run as it should. it seems to deal with the export stuff that i see spilling my screen whenever i use easyroot, something i didnt see until i had the other problem...	03:48
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t_s_o	ah, another piece of the puzzle. browser dies with signal 11 if i try to stop it while reloading...	03:50
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t_s_o	heh, opening multiple browser windows basically kills all of them with a error message about a internal error :S	03:53
boolean	hmm	03:54
boolean	can anyone tell me how to install Xephyr for the diablo SDK?	03:55
boolean	oh brother .. nevermind :{	03:56
lcuk	ewwww why would you want to emulate?	03:56
boolean	well I am following the howtos/tutorials for coding maemo apps	03:56
boolean	one has to start somewhere ... why do you compile right off the n8x0 ?	03:57
lcuk	you only need to work with the x86 portion if you want to emulate - if you are gonna copy to device (or map via sshfs or something) then its nicer	03:58
lcuk	i dont like vmware	03:58
lcuk	and i dont have a "full" linux system available here	03:58
lcuk	plus, its better this way	03:59
lcuk	i get to compile while im out havin a cig	03:59
lcuk	or on the train	03:59
lcuk	or the bus	03:59
boolean	heh ...	03:59
boolean	ok ... how long does it take to compile the kernel?	03:59
lcuk	i dunno, i only compile my stuff	03:59
boolean	i find doing simple find / -type f \|xargs grep -il <someting> take forever ...	04:00
boolean	hmm	04:00
t_s_o	ugh, seems im looking at a reflash, i cant nail down the problem :(	04:00
boolean	k	04:00
lcuk	t_s_o, give a clearer description (with maybe a vid/pictures?) and ask people in itt	04:00
lcuk	its only 1 application, surely doesnt deserve a reflash	04:01
lcuk	i wouldnt reformat my computer cos firefox went on a benny	04:01
t_s_o	well its the browser, without it the tablet is nearly worthless	04:01
lcuk	theres a browser on it?	04:01
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t_s_o	figures...	04:01
lcuk	different things for different people	04:01
t_s_o	indeed	04:01
* boolean doesnt like the browser that much ... first port I will try will be links :)		04:02
lcuk	:) i understand then, if you feel you have to then go for it	04:02
t_s_o	well i tried the obvious, a reinstall of both browser and browserd, didnt fix a thing...	04:02
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lcuk	its probably just one setting thats got wrong data in	04:02
lcuk	ask on itT	04:02
crashanddie	I use ssh -X firefox	04:03
t_s_o	probably...	04:03
t_s_o	i was just hoping some of the itt regulars where active here...	04:03
boolean	what is browserd exactly ?	04:03
crashanddie	t_s_o, only the IRC regulars are here :P	04:03
crashanddie	boolean, a backend for the browser	04:03
t_s_o	crashanddie: there is a bit over a overlap iirc	04:03
lcuk	its hard with obscure problems to find the right person: i mean daytimes timely is normally in, the guy whos working directly on the browser	04:03
jott	wow i had just nice big WTF starting gitk: http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/208/gittkwtfgk1.png	04:03
lcuk	ask him tomorrow	04:03
lcuk	timeless? timely? sameperson i think	04:04
lcuk	but i know hes never on at this time	04:04
boolean	crashanddie: as in sharing backend ?	04:04
crashanddie	aye	04:04
crashanddie	jott, looks good :)	04:04
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boolean	thanks	04:04
jott	crashanddie: tablet ready ;)	04:04
crashanddie	jott, at least you won't miss a commit with that :P	04:05
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lcuk	jott :) i approve of your desktop by the way (apart from the header panel)	04:06
lcuk	and push git more :P	04:06
jott	the header panel is a calculator and a launcher ;)	04:07
* jott probably needs some sleep		04:09
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jott	so much stuff in the mind and so in need of sleep. this sucks :/	04:09
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lcuk	:) jott i feel the same	04:10
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crashanddie	jott & luck: you need modafinil	04:18
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crashanddie	or orexin A	04:20
GAN800	that was incredible. non-stop thunderstorm for 300 miles.	04:20
lcuk	? crashanddie	04:20
crashanddie	lcuk, modafinil allows you to sleep 3 hours a night, and never feel sleepy	04:21
crashanddie	lcuk, orexin A resets your brain chemical balance so that you don't need sleep anymore	04:21
lcuk	then, no i dont need it	04:22
lcuk	sleep is better	04:22
lcuk	jott, are you awake	04:22
jott	lcuk: yes, even without orexin A :)	04:23
lcuk	GAN800, did everything go off?	04:23
crashanddie	though, orexin goes around £1000 per gram, so not exactly that cheap :P	04:23
lcuk	lol if you rotate the display which way does the tearing go?	04:23
GAN800	No, the detonators were trash. :(	04:23
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GAN800	lcuk, the grain rotates too--hardware.	04:24
GAN800	zerojay!	04:24
zerojay	GAN800: Hiya.	04:24
lcuk	!!!! :D	04:24
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crashanddie	anyway	04:24
crashanddie	I'm out	04:24
jott	lcuk: yeah, the rotation actually changes the memory mapping of the display	04:24
GAN800	Any good news about the discount code? :(	04:24
lcuk	jott, have you examined whether its possible to rotate without kernel	04:25
lcuk	gnite crashanddie :)	04:25
jott	lcuk: it's not possible to use hardware rotation.	04:25
zerojay	GAN800: Let me guess, that's become a bit of a joke in the community or something? ;)	04:25
jott	if you implemented software rotation into the xomap xserver it would work without kernel patches	04:25
lcuk	i am sure i managed it with some hacking right at the start,but my pattern wasnt formed (it was almost snow)	04:25
GAN800	Nah, just concerned. ;)	04:25
* boolean sighs		04:26
zerojay	GAN800: No... still no luck. The latest codes I were given about a month or so ago just don't work... so... guess I'll just wait until it comes down to my price range like everyone else.	04:26
boolean	how does one close a scratchbox session?	04:26
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lcuk	close the console?	04:26
GAN800	Canada really got the short stick.	04:26
jott	lcuk: http://sse2.net/rotate/Updated_blizzard_rotation_support_v2.diff <- just look at the patch	04:26
crashanddie	GAN800, n810 been running for 10h20m, still reports 1hour of battery life, with GPS tracking activated, that is	04:26
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boolean	hmm but each time i start again, it dumps me into an existing session	04:27
GAN800	crashanddie, that sounds pretty workable as an 'always on' GPS.	04:27
zerojay	GAN800: I just got an e-mail about the sponsorship and made me think about coming back to see how things are going here... if there's even anyone still here that I remember.	04:27
GAN800	zerojay, there's tons more activity lately.	04:27
GAN800	maemo.org is really taking off nicely.	04:27
zerojay	GAN800: I heard about the early Diablo hacks and stuff, but I feel so out of it these days.	04:27
crashanddie	GAN800, I will do a second run tomorrow night, so we don't have a "one test only" result. It would be nice if someone else could do it too, as to have a pretty accurate reading	04:28
zerojay	GAN800: So... were all those times I told people that things were getting better right? :)	04:28
lcuk	crash, is it sat connected or not	04:28
crashanddie	lcuk, yup	04:28
lcuk	cool	04:28
GAN800	zerojay, I'd say so.	04:29
crashanddie	lcuk, I've had to open maemo mapper though. Couldn't get the gps to stay on all the time otherwise	04:29
GAN800	Things are definitely heading the right direction.	04:29
lcuk	jott, thanks i might install and check a few things out.	04:29
crashanddie	lcuk, the trick for it to not compromise the battery/cpu usage, is to ask it to show a part of the map you are not, so it doesn't have to update the view	04:29
zerojay	GAN800: I'm glad to hear that. Maemo is still a project that I really believe in and want to see do well.	04:30
crashanddie	in order to have a pretty accurate reading, I wrote a small shell script that touches a file every minute, so I know when the n810 gives up and shuts down	04:30
boolean	you would think this was easy ... sigh	04:30
GAN800	it's too bad they screwed the pooch si hard on the discount codes. :(	04:30
boolean	in order to switch targets in scratchbox, I have to close the previous session	04:31
zerojay	GAN800: Well, so long as most everyone else got theirs...	04:31
boolean	so ...	04:31
boolean	[sbox-DIABLO_ARMEL: ~] > sb-conf cu	04:31
boolean	DIABLO_ARMEL	04:31
boolean	[sbox-DIABLO_ARMEL: ~] > sb-conf select MaemoKernel	04:31
boolean	sb-conf: You must close your other Scratchbox sessions first	04:31
GAN800	Maemo Software'd been better off handling the whole thing directly.	04:31
boolean	login out and running scratchbox brings back into DIABLO_ARMEL	04:31
lcuk	:D heh jott - i might just be able to do it at the app level as well	04:31
GAN800	yeah, I'd say it worked out in the end for most. but it took a while to get there. . . .	04:32
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crashanddie	boolean, check you don't have another console running in scratchbox, also, check that there isn't any file manager/console sitting within the scratchbox environment (e.g.: /scratchbox/users/you/home/you/*)	04:32
zerojay	GAN800: If the project is still going strong, it couldn't have been that bad.	04:32
zerojay	In fact, judging from the amount of people here, I'd say it's stronger than I ever remember.	04:32
lcuk	it looks similar to the method i used before and because i can choose resolution earlier, i can just choose to be in a 480*800, then mark it as rotated. it would be a hack, but it might just work	04:32
GAN800	Most definitely.	04:33
crashanddie	zerojay, and it's 330 AM in Europe :P	04:33
lcuk	gnite folks	04:33
crashanddie	yeah, good call, out of here	04:33
GAN800	later, lcuk	04:33
GAN800	'night	04:33
crashanddie	damn you for being interesting	04:33
*** lcuk is now known as lcuk_zzz		04:33
lcuk_zzz	:)	04:33
lcuk_zzz	likewise	04:33
crashanddie	'night	04:33
boolean	crashanddie: logout, found a scratchbox proc, killed it and /scratchbox/users/me/home/me/* still there ..	04:34
boolean	any suggestions?	04:34
boolean	nope .. kill -9 the proc worked ..	04:35
boolean	sorry for the noise	04:35
crashanddie	eh ?	04:35
crashanddie	oh	04:35
crashanddie	ok	04:35
crashanddie	'night	04:35
boolean	night	04:35
* GAN800 goes to fix a 20-year-old outboard.		04:36
dougt	does anyone know how to calculate idle time on maemo?	04:48
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dougt	usually you use libxss but that isn't installed for obvious reasons.	04:48
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ShadowJK	what idle time?	05:03
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dougt	ShadowJK: the time between user inputs	05:07
ShadowJK	oh that kind of idle time	05:08
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yigal	are there keys to press to poweroff the n800 if it isn't shutting down nicely?	05:28
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yigal	hard power off	05:30
yigal	os2008	05:30
yigal	powerkey has no effect	05:31
yigal	holding or hitting	05:31
yigal	it just has bootsplash "NOKIA" in blue	05:32
GreyFoxx	Heh I wish my810 would power on :)	05:32
mikedep333	hello, the repo file-linked to on canola's web site doesn't work	05:32
mikedep333	http://repository.maemo.org/dists/diablo/free	05:32
GreyFoxx	just got a new battery and still nothing	05:32
yigal	GreyFoxx: I'm sorry to here	05:32
GreyFoxx	looks like this puppy is going back tomorrow :/	05:32
yigal	GreyFoxx: can I take out the battery?	05:32
yigal	easily	05:32
mikedep333	oh, nm	05:32
mikedep333	anyway to override that so it looks for chinook rather than diablo?	05:33
GreyFoxx	yig: In the 810 is'd dead simple, I would assume the same with the 800	05:33
yigal	GreyFoxx: open up back	05:33
yigal	there's a case	05:33
yigal	?	05:33
GreyFoxx	Not sure what you mean by a case in that context	05:34
GreyFoxx	I've tried to seperate Batteries in this now, and so far I've never seen a thing appear on my screen	05:35
yigal	GreyFoxx: the original is a grey battery?	05:35
GreyFoxx	yeah, both are	05:35
GreyFoxx	bp-4l's	05:35
yigal	the enclosure is tight I don't want to hurt anything by taking it out, what do you think should I?	05:35
GreyFoxx	I'd just take it out	05:36
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yigal	should I need a special tools?	05:36
GreyFoxx	no	05:36
GreyFoxx	It'll just slide right out	05:36
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yigal	not so easy over here :(	05:39
yigal	what side do I pry from, on the inside or the edge?	05:40
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rm_you	GAN800:	05:43
yigal	GreyFoxx: you can't be serious this battery isn't moving	05:44
yigal	I just bench pressed 300lbs so hopefully I can get this battery out of its enclosure	05:46
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yigal	ah http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4001 at least I'm not the only one	05:51
yigal	I gave it the old wack on palm treatment, very refined I must say, out it came	05:53
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yigal	they should give those instructions, "to remove battery lightly bang n800 on palms battery will shoot out	05:55
yigal	"	05:55
yigal	as long as I get my jokes I'm ok	05:58
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DaniloCesar	Is e2fsprogs in bora extra repository?	06:03
DaniloCesar	* Diablo's extra	06:03
mikedep333	hey, I'm trying to get canola2 to run on diablo. What arguments do I use with canola-cleaner (or canola-cleanup-launcher?	06:10
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yigal	mikedep333: what problems are you having with canola2?	06:40
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rm_you	lcuk_zzz: >_> damn, missed you	06:46
johnx	rm_you, are you just getting up to?	06:46
rm_you	Ino	06:46
rm_you	i woke up at 6:30 am here	06:46
rm_you	it is 8:46 now	06:46
rm_you	p,	06:46
rm_you	*pm obviously	06:46
johnx	O_o	06:47
rm_you	been on most of the day	06:47
rm_you	but went to costco	06:47
rm_you	i came up with one solution to the -unlocked issue	06:47
rm_you	need opinions tho, it works very smoothly but breaks all sorts of packaging rules	06:47
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johnx	rm_you, what's it do?	06:49
rm_you	IE, you install a package named "osso-software-version" which "replaces: osso-software-version-rx34, osso-software-version-rx44", and it comes with both rx34-unlocked and rx44-unlocked debs... then during postinst it forks, figures out which hardware it is on, and waits for dpkg / apt to exit and then installs the correct deb	06:50
rm_you	and it works very nicely, but GAH	06:50
rm_you	such a hack	06:50
rm_you	installing extra packages in the background	06:50
rm_you	and has to wait for any package manager to close	06:50
johnx	eer...why can't you just "Provide" osso-software-version-rx34 and rx44	06:50
rm_you	because that doesnt solve the issue	06:51
rm_you	THOSE packages are not needed by anything	06:51
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rm_you	they just have a bunch of their own deps	06:51
rm_you	meta-packages	06:51
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rm_you	to keep the default software in a sane state	06:51
johnx	ok, let me think about this, but I'm gonna make coffee first	06:52
rm_you	k	06:52
rm_you	i wanted lcuk or lardman or one of the people who like... have this problem, to be on	06:52
johnx	and why exactly do you need "unlocked"? because it doesn't depend on set version numbers?	06:53
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rm_you	yes	06:53
rm_you	so what this does	06:53
rm_you	is let us properly name the xserver-xomap package (for example) in which we added rotation support	06:53
rm_you	to a higher version	06:53
johnx	and you tried doing on 'or' depend on unlocked-rx34 and rx44?	06:54
rm_you	and the maintainer for THAT puts my package "osso-software-version-unlocked" in as a "Depends"	06:54
rm_you	so it pulls in that, which kicks out the locked one, and puts back the -unlocked	06:54
rm_you	see, the problem with that is	06:54
rm_you	it isn't smooth	06:54
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rm_you	it will go "error! cannot install, depends on X or Y"	06:54
rm_you	because it doesnt have the intelligence necessary to choose	06:54
johnx	because app manager is kind of a lame apt frontend I guess...	06:55
rm_you	and since technically the osso-software-version packages are never in "depends", they only block installs, it is ok to remove one during the install and put it back after	06:55
rm_you	even apt can't do it	06:55
rm_you	i mean	06:55
rm_you	we could write a fscking PATCH for apt maybe, but that would be SUCH a hack	06:55
rm_you	i mean, i KNOW i could write a patch for apt	06:56
rm_you	cause they already did it	06:56
rm_you	to do sort of the same thing	06:56
johnx	wait, why can't apt satisfy an \| depend?	06:56
rm_you	because the two packages are exactly the same	06:56
johnx	it should just pick the first then	06:56
rm_you	osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked	06:56
rm_you	osso-software-version-rx344-unlocked	06:56
rm_you	err	06:56
rm_you	osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked	06:56
rm_you	that would be bad	06:57
rm_you	cause then on n810 you would get rx34-unlocked	06:57
rm_you	but it has no idea what the logic is for that	06:57
johnx	right, but what I'm wondering is why it isn't behaving like normal apt	06:57
rm_you	...	06:57
rm_you	normal apt doesnt do that either	06:57
johnx	with an \| depend?	06:57
johnx	it just picks whatever is a available	06:57
rm_you	if there are multiple packages that satisfy a dependency, it says "woah, here are your options, i'm bailing"	06:58
johnx	uhm, no?	06:58
rm_you	it's happened to me within the last week in Sid	06:58
rm_you	that's when i became acutely aware of why people were complaining	06:58
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rm_you	apt would need to know that "oh, on this hardware, we need the rx34 package, but on this hardware we need the rx44 package"	06:59
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rm_you	I should write up the patch and submit it upstream really...	07:00
GAN800	rm_you, figure out the unlocked?	07:00
rm_you	since they apparently are perfectly fine with hacking up apt for proprietary stuff	07:00
rm_you	GAN800: sort of	07:00
rm_you	you install a package named "osso-software-version" which "replaces: osso-software-version-rx34, osso-software-version-rx44", and it comes with both rx34-unlocked and rx44-unlocked debs... then during postinst it forks, figures out which hardware it is on, and waits for dpkg / apt to exit and then installs the correct deb	07:00
rm_you	it let us properly name the xserver-xomap package (for example) in which we added rotation support to a higher version and the maintainer for THAT puts my package "osso-software-version-unlocked" in as a "Depends"	07:01
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johnx	rm_you, that is a scary hack with a huge potential to go wrong	07:01
rm_you	yes i knpw	07:01
rm_you	though	07:01
rm_you	on the bright side, the WORST POSSIBLE OUTCOME	07:01
rm_you	is that the unlocked package doesnt get pulled in	07:01
johnx	yeah, there is that	07:01
rm_you	for which the solution is.... do it manually	07:01
rm_you	or run "enable-unlocked"	07:01
rm_you	which is the script i use	07:01
rm_you	and stays in /usr/bin/	07:01
johnx	rm_you, actually, I'm not so sure that making it easy is the best idea	07:02
rm_you	also, disable-unlocked >_>	07:02
rm_you	johnx: yes, there are arguments on either side	07:02
GAN800	For rotation? I'd say it is.	07:02
rm_you	GAN800: anyway, i tested it, works great here... i put a modified rotation package and that package in my own repo	07:02
rm_you	added it to apt, apt-get update, etc	07:02
rm_you	then apt-get install xserver-xomap	07:02
johnx	GAN800, for enabling the replacement of core libs with 3rd party stuff? I'd have to disagree	07:02
rm_you	and it pulled in the higher version with the osso-software-version-unlocked	07:03
rm_you	and everything was dandy	07:03
johnx	rm_you, can you just tell people: N800 users, click _here_ , N810 users click _here_	07:03
rm_you	sec i will do the operation again and pastebin the apt interaction	07:03
rm_you	johnx: don't think so?	07:03
johnx	do this install to unlock THEN install the rotation package	07:03
rm_you	>_>	07:03
rm_you	oh	07:03
rm_you	well yeah	07:03
rm_you	but...	07:03
mikedep333	hey, a while ago I said:	07:03
mikedep333	hey, I'm trying to get canola2 to run on diablo. What arguments do I use with canola-cleaner (or canola-cleanup-launcher?	07:03
rm_you	i am putting together a package called "rotation-support"	07:03
mikedep333	yigal: my problem is that the videos doesn't show up in the main menu	07:03
rm_you	which is, hopefully, a ONE CLICK	07:04
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mikedep333	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21820	07:04
rm_you	mikedep333: why are you using canola cleaner?	07:04
rm_you	mikedep333: i think you need to go to settings first and set up watched video directories, and then do a scan	07:04
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rm_you	mikedep333: i believe canola-cleaner is designed to REMOVE canola (i thought)	07:04
mikedep333	rm_you:I have youtube plugin installed	07:04
mikedep333	oh	07:04
mikedep333	and I have one video in a watched directory	07:04
mikedep333	the default OS 2008 one I think	07:05
rm_you	you may want to just do "dpkg --purge canola*"	07:05
mikedep333	good idea, thanks	07:05
rm_you	and reinstall it all	07:05
johnx	rm_you, I know...but I agree with Nokia that I think it's important for people to realize "gee, I'm replacing core libraries with other stuff, maybe if I have no idea what I'm doing this isn't the best idea"	07:05
rm_you	GAN800: anyway, your thoughts?	07:05
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GAN800	It doesn't bother me for the rotation stuff	07:06
rm_you	johnx: yes, but annoying as heck for developers who are trying to make cool stuff available for users that are like "this is so confusing WTF please just let me click something so i can rotate!"	07:06
mikedep333	it doesn't like canola*	07:06
GAN800	everybody installs it without knowing what it is anyway.	07:06
rm_you	mikedep333: you probably have something that matches that regexp in the current directory	07:06
mikedep333	how do I list all the canola packages so I can use dpkg --purge with them?	07:06
rm_you	try	07:06
rm_you	dpkg --purge "canola*"	07:06
rm_you	with the quotes	07:06
mikedep333	ok	07:06
mikedep333	no luck	07:07
rm_you	with the dpkg command?	07:07
rm_you	hrm	07:07
mikedep333	nm	07:08
mikedep333	I used dpkg --list	07:08
mikedep333	I wil specify them manually	07:08
mikedep333	wait	07:09
GAN800	johnx, for certain things I'd agree, but for rotation support, well, how many people have had real issues with it?	07:09
mikedep333	is there a way to dpkg --purge canola2 (and have it remove everything that depends on it?)	07:10
rm_you	well,t he problem is, once you opent he door for that	07:10
rm_you	wow, having issues with my spacebar	07:11
GAN800	Meh, I think packagers are generally responsible enough.	07:11
GAN800	what's the procedure on a real distro?	07:11
johnx	GAN800, but unlocking doesn't just apply to rotation support	07:11
johnx	GAN800, they don't have set version depends. but they also don't have much need for 3rd party repos	07:12
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GAN800	Well, people providing and using 3rd party repos should experience negative effects.	07:14
GAN800	;)	07:14
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johnx	yeah, but ubuntu tends not to reboot-loop and if all else fails you can pull your hard drive and read it on a different computer or boot from CD	07:14
johnx	the embedded world is a little different, and OS200x is a fragile distro	07:15
rm_you	yeah	07:15
rm_you	i sort of see that being bad...	07:15
rm_you	because once you install unlocked for rotation, the next time they update, EVERYTHING unlocked will get pulled in	07:16
johnx	everyone just needs a "Step 0: You need to unlock. Click here for the explanation, then click here for N800 or here for N810"	07:16
johnx	everyone can cut and paste the same line in their instructions	07:16
johnx	hell, we could make a wiki page about it	07:16
johnx	I'll even write it	07:16
rm_you	but i think the point is that anyone that installs my package or any package that requires it, WANTS that package, and will be unlocked anyway, we may as well make it easy	07:17
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rm_you	its not like we're making it install stealthily on every random package	07:17
rm_you	only the ones that REALLY require unlocked	07:17
johnx	sometimes an explicit step is enough to make people realize "maybe this is out of my depth"	07:18
rm_you	so if we figure, user A wants to install rotation support, user A will try to install it on apt, it won't work due to locked, they'll spend 20 minutes on IRC or forums, find out how to fix it, and unlock manually	07:18
rm_you	or we may as well just do it for them	07:18
rm_you	well	07:18
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rm_you	most users won't care	07:18
johnx	it's one line of text at the top of each post...not that hard	07:19
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rm_you	i know when i was in that stage, i was less likely to actually read those dialogs than i am now that i actually know what's going on and really MEAN "yes go ahead"	07:19
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rm_you	but we dont want it to need to be a post, we want it to be "apt-get install rotation-support" and be done	07:19
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rm_you	i agree there are some issues, and that the way it is done is JUST PLAIN WRONG from a debian packaging point of view (I think a hardcore debian packager would strangle me to death while having a heart attack)	07:20
rm_you	but i think in the end, it is what needs to be done	07:21
rm_you	unless someone hacks apt	07:21
rm_you	which, like i said, i may just do :P	07:21
rm_you	mmm	07:22
rm_you	apt-get source apt	07:22
johnx	I see your point, but I think most people find apps on itt or downloads.maemo.org where there is some way to tell them, you have to unlock first, click here:	07:22
rm_you	<_<	07:23
johnx	and they don't use apt anyways, they click install files	07:23
rm_you	i still think 100% of the users who want any of the packages that would auto-install it WOULD manually install it anyway and be slightly annoyed at the requirement	07:23
johnx	adding one more click won't kill them and it makes it clear that unlocking is an explicit choice	07:23
johnx	and by doing that they explicitly accept the problems it may cause	07:24
rm_you	or we just say you explicitly accept the consequences for this next to the link for the package that includes it :P	07:24
khertan_	and multiple dialog in pre-install script package ?	07:24
rm_you	off-topic thought: i'm thinking if I do go to the summit, I can do a lightning panel on "Getting Involved: Everyone is an Asset"	07:25
johnx	rm_you, but the point is to make them realize "hey this is something different, maybe my problem is with this "unlocked" thing, not something rotation support did"	07:25
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rm_you	on how anyone, anywhere, with any amount of knowledge, can get involved in helping with maemo tasks	07:25
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rm_you	and give morale boosting examples based on my own experience on how easy it is to get involved, and suggestions for things people of different knowledge levels and skillsets can start with	07:26
rm_you	the only problem i forsee with this, is this may be the kind of summit where the only people there ARE the people already involved >_>	07:27
rm_you	so i'm not sure	07:27
rm_you	it's just a thought i'm playing with	07:27
rm_you	otherwise, not sure what i'd talk about	07:27
johnx	maybe a talk on how to help others get involved?	07:27
rm_you	ah	07:27
rm_you	yeah :P	07:27
johnx	:D	07:27
rm_you	though my track record with that may not be too good	07:28
* johnx makes coffee, will consider the unlocked problem more		07:28
rm_you	considering everyone i meet i try to get involved in maemo stuff (like, literally everyone, 100+ people) and so far i've gotten one person to buy one, and he doesnt really do anything	07:28
rm_you	<_<	07:28
rm_you	i tried to talk a cel phone salesman at the mall into buying an N800 :P	07:29
rm_you	he was at the nokia booth so i was like, what the hell why not :P	07:29
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rm_you	johnx: I love milk tea, so much <_<	07:29
rm_you	and CC Lemon	07:29
rm_you	I should have you ship me cases of CC Lemon	07:30
johnx	:D	07:30
rm_you	it's soooo cheap there compared to here with import inflation >_>	07:30
johnx	I'll have to find where to get it in bulk	07:30
rm_you	well, milk tea... CC lemon i could only find in those TINY bottles that are sold as like, health drinks	07:30
rm_you	not in the big bottles	07:30
rm_you	so it is ridiculously and prohibitively expensive :(	07:30
rm_you	Milktea is 4.69 for the 100ml bottles that we were buying there for like 120Y	07:31
rm_you	>_<	07:31
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johnx	nah, it was still 200Y+ for those :P	07:32
johnx	wait, 100 or 1000?	07:32
derf	I was never a big milktea fan.	07:34
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derf	But CC Lemon = <3	07:34
johnx	agreed	07:35
johnx	I miss lemon/lime slice a little though	07:35
derf	But the real problem is this country does not have enough Beard Papa's.	07:35
johnx	heh	07:36
rm_you	lol	07:36
johnx	which is funny cause I miss dunkin donuts	07:36
derf	What?!	07:36
johnx	and krispy creme	07:36
rm_you	CC Lemon was amazing... I drank like 3 cartons of that a day sometimes	07:36
derf	Go to Tokyo, they have Krispy Kreme.	07:36
johnx	derf, yeah, I know, I must be broken :P	07:36
rm_you	I actually liked Mister Donut >_>	07:36
derf	They are _exactly_ the same as in North Carolina.	07:36
rm_you	I must be odd	07:36
derf	Mister Donut is awesome.	07:36
rm_you	:P	07:36
* derf <3 maccha doughnuts.		07:37
johnx	I do like mister donut	07:37
rm_you	IIRC johnx and company didnt like em?	07:37
johnx	macha-choco old fashioned FTW	07:37
rm_you	ok.. apparently i remember incorrectly	07:37
derf	johnx: YES!	07:37
johnx	rm_you, I didn't used to, then I found good donuts there	07:37
rm_you	:P	07:37
derf	The angel heart crullers or whatever they were called were pretty damn good too.	07:38
johnx	now I have a freaking point card ...	07:38
rm_you	johnx: errr 1.5L	07:38
derf	_I_ have a freaking point card, and I've been in the country a total of 3 weeks.	07:38
rm_you	:P	07:38
rm_you	Pointo Cardo? :P	07:38
rm_you	<3	07:38
rm_you	Daijobu :P	07:39
johnx	they put a mister donut right next to where I work ... truly dangerous	07:39
rm_you	lol nice	07:39
rm_you	i remember one of the girls in the bakery at the main store we went to that would get very embarrassed and flustered because she knew i didn't understand her so she didn't know what to do :P	07:41
derf	The first time I was there, there was a Beard Papa right next to the train station by where I was staying.	07:41
derf	Meaning I'd pass it at least twice a day...	07:41
rm_you	and then i'd just hand her money for what the register said and she would snap out of it :P	07:41
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rm_you	dont think i ever saw a Beard Papa	07:42
derf	You missed out.	07:42
johnx	I'll try beard papa next time I see one	07:42
johnx	what should I try there?	07:42
derf	Kyou no higawari kudasai!	07:42
derf	johnx: They only serve like five things. They are all delicious.	07:43
derf	Well, at least in Japan.	07:43
derf	The Beard Papa I found in Melbourne had a whole bunch of non-cream puff things on the menu.	07:44
derf	And at least one of the ones in New York was like an entire Japanese restaurant, with just the cream puffs off to one side.	07:45
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derf	But in Japan they've all been just cream puffs.	07:45
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johnx	yeah, that reminds me why I haven't bought anything there yet. I'm not too big on cream puffs...	07:45
johnx	I'll try it though	07:45
* johnx tries anything once		07:45
derf	You're right, you must be broken.	07:46
GeneralAntilles	rm_you, love the "Getting people involved" idea.	07:46
rm_you	aww... <3 cream puffs	07:46
rm_you	i need to go back for Beard Papa alone :P	07:46
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: though I am very afraid that at a Maemo Summit, it will be all major contributers already <_<	07:46
GeneralAntilles	Seems likely.	07:47
derf	I'll probably be back to hike Fuji-san at some point, but Beard Papa will definitely be involved somewhere.	07:47
rm_you	it's not like the generic ones that have a bunch of random people	07:47
GeneralAntilles	The "getting people involved" direction would be more useful for the Maemo Summit audience.	07:48
rm_you	yeah	07:48
GeneralAntilles	As hard as I've worked on that, I can't really say I have any good suggestions. :\	07:48
rm_you	would need to come up with some actual material for that	07:48
rm_you	yeah...	07:48
GeneralAntilles	"Get a random whacko to edit wikipedia"	07:48
GeneralAntilles	^ that'll generate interest	07:48
rm_you	in 5 minutes of thinking i had a decent plan for a 9 minute setting on Getting Involved	07:48
rm_you	that would actually be pretty awesome	07:48
rm_you	but, yeah...	07:48
GeneralAntilles	But that's about the extent of my successes	07:48
GeneralAntilles	The rest of them are just people that were headed that direction anyway, I just gave them a little kick in the pants.	07:49
GeneralAntilles	I've had plenty of success selling the things.	07:49
rm_you	heh	07:49
GeneralAntilles	I'm up to . . . 7 people or so	07:49
GeneralAntilles	That I've directly sold	07:50
rm_you	yeah, just sold one :/	07:50
GeneralAntilles	more indirectly, probably.	07:50
rm_you	I had three other people thinking...	07:50
rm_you	but none bit	07:50
rm_you	two went eeePC	07:50
johnx	rm_you, did I tel you to buy one or not?	07:50
rm_you	one just bought a plasma TV :P	07:50
johnx	I don't remember	07:50
rm_you	johnx: i think you suggested it yes :P you can go ahead and count me	07:50
t_s_o	heh, anyone familiar with browserd?	07:50
rm_you	i think if you hadnt told me it existed and that you had one, i wouldn't have been so enthusiastic about getting one	07:51
rm_you	i like hacking with you :P	07:51
GeneralAntilles	t_s_o, what's the question?	07:51
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t_s_o	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21966	07:52
GeneralAntilles	t_s_o, never seen that. . . .	07:53
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t_s_o	thing is im not sure if its browserd, or something deeper. that list of exports im seeing is whats confusing me, that and my attempt at reinstalling browserd to no effect...	07:57
johnx	t_s_o, did you install a different shell? what have you installed recently?	08:01
GeneralAntilles	^	08:02
t_s_o	johnx: nope, using the default diablo one	08:02
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, that's a good step one. What was the last thing you did before it started happening.	08:02
t_s_o	watched browser crash on a webpage?	08:02
GeneralAntilles	You've rebooted, I assume?	08:03
t_s_o	beyond that its personal launcher, but noone else is reporting anything like it so...	08:03
t_s_o	more then ones to see if i could get browserd back up	08:03
GeneralAntilles	Purge ~/.mozilla ?	08:03
t_s_o	have not gone that far yet, but i have tried to move the microb sub-dir, no effect	08:04
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t_s_o	just purged .mozilla, no change	08:07
* GeneralAntilles got some great shots tonight.		08:08
GeneralAntilles	http://flickr.com/photos/27350547@N06/2670666196/ Did a night version of that.	08:08
t_s_o	btw, im seeing 2 browserd processes in load-applet, thats common, right?	08:09
GeneralAntilles	Right	08:09
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t_s_o	hmm, i may have killed both at some point, but im not sure if i did it before or after the problem showed up. i think i did it after to see if it would help...	08:10
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johnx	anyways, that shouldn't do it	08:12
johnx	it sounds like something is really wrong	08:13
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johnx	can you put up the pastebin result of what happens when you run "root"	08:13
johnx	I'd be surprised if these weren't related	08:13
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t_s_o	http://pastebin.org/51731	08:16
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johnx	but everything else works ok?	08:19
johnx	maybe some problem with the profile for root?	08:19
t_s_o	well i noticed just now that i got a similar amount of text on screen when logging in via ssh, but this time for user	08:19
t_s_o	but yes, everything else seems to work as it should	08:20
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johnx	maybe /etc/profile then?	08:24
t_s_o	may be	08:24
t_s_o	that seems to point mostly to af-defines.sh	08:25
johnx	uhm, it shouldn't I think	08:26
johnx	hmm, let me check mine	08:26
johnx	nm, mine does too	08:26
johnx	here's my /etc/profile http://pastebin.com/m68697bae	08:27
t_s_o	looks the same as the one here...	08:28
GAN800	Maybe af-defines.sh is messed up?	08:28
Proteous	got some NES controllers for my diabolical project, MUHAHAHAHAA	08:28
t_s_o	may be, looking at tablet-browser-daemon in init.d it seems to call on the same file	08:28
t_s_o	ugh, that file is "huge"	08:29
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GAN800	Coerced johnx into putting his somewhere where you can do a diff. :D	08:30
johnx	t_s_o, I'll md5sum mine	08:31
GAN800	s/Coerced/Coerce/	08:31
infobot	GAN800 meant: Coerce johnx into putting his somewhere where you can do a diff. :D	08:31
johnx	7de3dfb63acef3b621773f833badeb01	08:31
t_s_o	hrmf, seems i dont have it available or something...	08:32
johnx	aaah, er right	08:33
t_s_o	one moment	08:35
t_s_o	gah, forget that. i did a quick search of apt, it pointed med to coreutils, but installing that would rip out a lot of osso packages :P	08:36
johnx	yeah, you probably don't want that :)	08:36
GAN800	and make it unbootable	08:37
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* GAN800 really hopes switching to coreutils will happen by Fremantle.		08:38
johnx	ah well, here it is on pastebin: http://pastebin.com/m3d82a426	08:38
johnx	GAN800, yeah, you probably don't want that :)	08:38
t_s_o	heh, copied the file from tablet to pc, checksum looks the same...	08:38
johnx	ah, ok	08:38
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t_s_o	just had to do the scp from pc not tablet...	08:38
GAN800	The reasons for using busybox are gone.	08:39
Italodance	:) morning	08:39
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johnx	GAN800, uhm, what? small amounts of flash? not that much memory? a processor with finite speed?	08:39
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Italodance	IT MUST BE THE SAME PSP!	08:39
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Italodance	We Need game developers	08:40
GAN800	johnx, for the 770 that applied, but for OMAP2 and 3? No.	08:40
johnx	GAN800, run debian for a while. :P	08:40
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GAN800	johnx, as soon as the DE works as well as OS2008	08:41
johnx	plus, the next tablet will be aimed even more at consumers. There's no reason to switch to coreutils really. I'd be happy with a sane system for diverts though	08:41
johnx	GAN800, what I'm saying is it is noticeably slower	08:41
johnx	Italodance, so learn to program and make a game. :P	08:41
GAN800	is that due to coreutils?	08:41
Italodance	johnx why us! maemo and nokia are lazy!	08:42
* GAN800 eyeroll		08:42
GAN800	Italodance gfto of here with that trash.	08:42
johnx	Italodance, Nokia made games and Maemo is Nokia and us...	08:43
johnx	GAN800, yeah, bash and coreutils are slower and bigger. and 600MHz and 128MB of RAM is still a "small" system by today's standards.	08:44
t_s_o	anyways, im running out of ideas here...	08:44
GAN800	Freaks me out that a handheld will have a faster CPU than the iBook on the shelf here.	08:45
t_s_o	and use less battery at peak ;)	08:46
Italodance	johnx that's not enough	08:46
Italodance	we need professional games like psp	08:47
GAN800	For an internet tablet? . . .	08:47
t_s_o	Italodance: if so, it also need more game-friendly inputs...	08:47
johnx	Italodance, ok. What is your plan to solve this problem?	08:47
t_s_o	and no, a thumbs keyboard dont really count...	08:47
GAN800	t_s_o Wiimote is pretty cool for that in a geeky sort of way. :D	08:48
Italodance	johnx we need psp (sony) Designers	08:48
Italodance	maybe they can help to nokia	08:48
rm_you	ack	08:48
GAN800	lol. . . .	08:48
johnx	Italodance, they aren't in this channel. Maybe you should talk to them	08:49
rm_you	keep sony away from my device!	08:49
Italodance	nokia can have a deal with them	08:49
* rm_you gets out his crosses and garlic		08:49
t_s_o	GAN800: read about the new addon that the wiimote will get? extra sensors so that it really knows where it is in 3d space ;)	08:49
Italodance	johnx i am talking about nokia	08:49
GAN800	t_s_o, gyroscopic accelerometers?	08:49
rm_you	sony will help make another company's device into a direct competitor? doubtful	08:49
GAN800	That'd makes it so much cooler.	08:50
Italodance	yes	08:50
johnx	Italodance, look at the Sony Mylo. It's a similar device by sony, and it has no games.	08:50
t_s_o	not sure GAN800, all i know it that it will be a small box thats plugged into the back of the wiimote	08:50
Italodance	that's a nice idea	08:50
GAN800	interesting	08:50
Italodance	....	08:50
rm_you	I really need a USB stick install of ubuntu for my tablet	08:51
johnx	rm_you, I was about to stab you until I realized you meant your TabletPC	08:51
Italodance	rm_you is it possible?	08:51
GAN800	Ubuntu? . . .	08:51
rm_you	lol	08:51
rm_you	TabletPC	08:51
rm_you	TabletPC	08:51
rm_you	TabletPC	08:51
rm_you	TabletPC	08:51
Stskeeps	johnx: that's not insanely impossible though	08:51
GAN800	Hahaha	08:51
rm_you	sorry	08:51
rm_you	forgot where i was :P	08:51
Italodance	well i called my device as TabletPC too	08:51
GAN800	We all got out our knives.	08:51
Stskeeps	bootmenu supports booting off usb hdd so and i have a ubuntu image	08:52
Stskeeps	,)	08:52
Stskeeps	;)	08:52
rm_you	lol	08:52
johnx	Stskeeps, it's not impossible, but I just got tired of people on ITT asking for ubuntu and ignoring debian	08:52
rm_you	i'm glad we weren't all in the same room, i might be dead by now	08:52
GAN800	Ha	08:52
GAN800	rm_you == ganked	08:52
Italodance	johnx do u know the official chan of psp?	08:53
GAN800	#0	08:53
johnx	Italodance, I have no idea	08:54
Italodance	btw on maemo.org MPlayer 1.0rc1-maemo.29.n8x0 was FAKE!!!!!!!!!!!	08:54
johnx	Italodance, no it wasn't	08:54
Italodance	yes FAKE!	08:54
GAN800	!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!	08:54
GAN800	MPLAYER	08:55
Italodance	http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/mplayer/	08:55
rm_you	wtf though, ubuntu is lieing to me on my tabletpc, says i have sound drivers up and working, but i'm trying my hardest to get even a peep out of the speakers	08:55
GAN800	MPLAYER IZ UH PHONEY!!!!!!!!!!	08:55
Italodance	FAKE! we don't have 29 yet,even 28!	08:55
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GAN800	FAAAAKEEEEEE	08:55
johnx	ahahaha	08:55
Stskeeps	late night crazies on #maemo? :P	08:55
johnx	I knew it would happen eventually. GeneralAntilles finally flipped	08:55
GAN800	Stskeeps, I'm in an evil mood. ;)	08:56
johnx	rm_you, install gamix and play with it	08:56
rm_you	ah?	08:56
johnx	rm_you, latest ubuntu seems to have some sound issues or something	08:56
rm_you	>_>	08:57
rm_you	wow the gamix interface looks horrible	08:57
johnx	yeah, quite painful, but it works	08:58
rm_you	>_>	08:58
rm_you	wow no, nothing	08:59
rm_you	lame	08:59
rm_you	i should go back to gutsy, it worked way better IMO	08:59
rm_you	hardy was a big disappointment for me in general	09:00
johnx	works fine here	09:00
* johnx shrugs		09:00
GAN800	There was a charger in this room 2 months ago. . . .	09:01
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rm_you	how can i find out what is using a module so i can rmmod it?	09:06
rm_you	i need to reload my snd-hda-intel module >_>	09:06
rm_you	i wonder if i can boot from SD card on this thing... that would be ideal	09:07
johnx	rm_you, prolly pulseaudio	09:07
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rm_you	>_>	09:08
rm_you	nopee	09:09
rm_you	still more using it	09:09
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rm_you	qwerty12: yo	09:09
qwerty12	hey rm_you	09:09
GAN800	qwerty12, announcement yet? :D	09:10
qwerty12	GAN800: Will do soon, I'm just not sure that the install file is working >.<	09:11
GAN800	Extras is getting fairly win lately.	09:11
GAN800	Ah, yeah, that's a pain. :/	09:11
rm_you	qwerty12 / GAN800: http://slexy.org/view/s20cPCbhhr	09:12
GAN800	I bet X-Fade could probably stick on up manually if it came to it.	09:12
qwerty12	The install file works on my computer but not on my tablet >.<. I'll try again and see if it works now :)	09:13
qwerty12	rm_you: nice :)	09:13
GAN800	sweet	09:13
rm_you	http://slexy.org/view/s20XlDA1g8	09:14
rm_you	so, that is the reason it is a bit ugly...	09:14
rm_you	it installs the correct unlocked package, but as you can see, it is done in the background, not via apt	09:14
rm_you	so it doesnt notify you of a package it is technically installing as part of that operation	09:14
rm_you	scroll to the bottom of the second paste to see the new stuff	09:14
GAN800	I'm suprised there's not an existing method for hardware-based logic. . .	09:14
rm_you	GAN800: the other option is I make a patch for apyt	09:15
rm_you	*apt	09:15
rm_you	that maybe gets pushed upstream	09:15
rm_you	specifically to make that choice	09:15
GAN800	I mean, this situation can't have never been encountered.	09:15
GAN800	Did you check with any knowledgable Debian packagers?	09:16
rm_you	don't really know any	09:16
rm_you	johnx mentioned some things he thought were supposed to work, but they haven't worked that way AFAIK, so i dunno	09:16
GAN800	#debian?	09:17
rm_you	explaining the situation precisely so they know what i'm talking about may be above my head	09:18
rm_you	and i keep being tempted to fall into the "Any deb packaging experts here?" trap before trying to explain what is probably three screens of text >_<	09:18
Italodance	Doomsday.UNRATED.DVDRip.XviD-LMG	09:18
Italodance	:D	09:19
rm_you	i keep thinking "JUST ASK THE QUESTION!" but i can't help but think that yes, this situations is one of the unique ones >_>	09:19
rm_you	because i would probably have to give the explanation in a pastebin or else get accused of spamming :P	09:19
GAN800	lol	09:19
rm_you	but anyway, you think the current method COULD be workable?	09:20
GAN800	Well, can't hurt to try.	09:20
rm_you	i want to ask a few more of the hardcore dev people here, like lardman and lcuk, when they wake up	09:20
GAN800	maybe con johnx into doing it for you.	09:20
rm_you	lol	09:20
GAN800	lol	09:20
johnx	I just think there should be a way to do this	09:20
GAN800	don't ask lcuk	09:21
rm_you	lol	09:21
johnx	but I can't think of another package that does it...	09:21
GAN800	He don't do packaging. ;)	09:21
rm_you	yeah but	09:21
rm_you	whether he thinks the solution is acceptable	09:21
GAN800	Talk to X-Fade and Jaffa.	09:21
rm_you	that's what i want to ask :P	09:21
rm_you	just if they think they could use it	09:21
rm_you	all you do is make your package Depend on osso-software-version-unlocked and it works automagically	09:21
rm_you	i should possibly name it different tho	09:22
GAN800	Definitely	09:22
rm_you	"osso-software-version-unlocked-chooser" or "osso-software-version-generic-unlocked-"	09:22
rm_you	dunno	09:22
GAN800	software-version-unlocked-installer?	09:23
rm_you	software-version-unlocker?	09:23
GAN800	Like that	09:23
qwerty12	All I know is that Nokia depend on osso-software-version-variant because their osso-software-version-rx*4 provides that.	09:23
GAN800	(I)	09:23
rm_you	yeah...	09:23
rm_you	hrm time to find out if i can boot from mmc	09:24
qwerty12	If the problem is that apt doesn't show the osso-software-version-rx*4-unlocked being installed, can't you just fake the lines that apt would display?	09:24
johnx	headed out for a while, rm_you: I'll think about this for a while, just give me a little time	09:25
rm_you	kk	09:25
rm_you	later	09:25
rm_you	qwerty12: LOL	09:25
qwerty12	:P	09:25
qwerty12	(I would :P)	09:25
GAN800	NOTIME!NOTIME!	09:25
rm_you	qwerty12: I want it to be doable in app manager	09:26
rm_you	where they would see much of anything anyway, i guess	09:26
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befr0d_	this is probably not completly related to maemo, but is there a way to 'mute' a flash app?	09:32
qwerty12	Ah, the rootsh install file is working when I'm using http instead of https to access maemo.org. Not sure why that is but anyway...	09:33
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rm_you	ONO	09:39
rm_you	I just thought it...	09:39
rm_you	"Wow, my n800 is working perfectly! ... Wow, it is working way too well... There are no problems at all."	09:40
rm_you	Now it is doomed to explode.	09:40
qwerty12	Tick Tock	09:40
GAN800	lol	09:41
GAN800	rm_you's electronics hate him.	09:41
qwerty12	hehe	09:41
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rm_you	i need a pic of my current setup :P sec	09:41
rm_you	lol: http://www.ageofikon.info/current_desk.jpg	09:47
rm_you	not as awesome as my last setup :(	09:47
rm_you	but i like it	09:47
qwerty12	Yep, an "Forbidden" setup sounds soo good	09:47
rm_you	you're down to 4 screens GAN?	09:47
rm_you	:/	09:47
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GAN800	No, I'm up to 5.	09:48
qwerty12	"You don't have permission to access /current_desk.jpg on this server." :P	09:48
rm_you	weird	09:48
rm_you	fixed	09:49
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rm_you	you can almost see my aim contacts :P	09:50
rm_you	almost :P	09:50
tank-man	i have the same software as CSI	09:50
tank-man	i can zoom in and enhance	09:50
GAN800	Ha	09:50
rm_you	even they don't have that software :P	09:50
rm_you	pft	09:50
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GAN800	What would Hollywood do without their flawed understanding of technology?	09:51
Stskeeps	GAN800: start a UI design company?	09:51
Stskeeps	:P	09:51
qwerty12	http://www.uploadgeek.com/uploads456/1/ipv45.png	09:52
rm_you	they really should	09:53
rm_you	I still look forward to a UI like in Minority Report	09:54
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GAN800	Wii has that sort of feel	09:55
qwerty12	Mine doesn't :(	09:55
GAN800	I wish they would let you type with two controllers.	09:55
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rm_you	qwerty12: have you looked at the mplayer rotation issue at all?	09:59
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qwerty12	rm_you: I'm not a programmer, I'm just a very simple patch porter :)	09:59
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rm_you	lol	09:59
t_s_o	hmm, wii uses bluetooth right? does it support hid?	10:00
qwerty12	mplayer works in inverse mode fine though :/	10:00
rm_you	I guess I will...	10:00
GAN800	t_s_o, should.	10:00
t_s_o	i think logitech have a interesting keyboard then ;)	10:00
qwerty12	Anyway, bye.	10:00
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GAN800	Hadn't considered that.	10:01
GAN800	That would be nice.	10:01
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GAN800	Hopefully cheaper than the Apple board.	10:01
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t_s_o	http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/keyboards/keyboard/devices/3848	10:02
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t_s_o	heh, maybe not the cheapest tho ;)	10:02
tank-man	the mini keyboard?	10:02
t_s_o	yep	10:03
t_s_o	altho i guess one could go for one of the fullsized ones to	10:03
GAN800	that would be so cool if only ut were under $100	10:03
RST38h	ga: got a bt keyboard?	10:04
GAN800	iGo	10:04
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RST38h	ga: comment on bug 3359 please	10:05
GAN800	already did	10:05
RST38h	or they will close it	10:05
RST38h	thanks	10:05
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GAN800	Eh, they're not dictators. ;)	10:05
tank-man	key repeats?	10:05
GAN800	You can always reopend.	10:05
GAN800	s/reopened/reopen/	10:06
t_s_o	heh, glibc was it?	10:06
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RST38h	tsnk: delays and lost keys	10:11
RST38h	I suspect that the lost keys come from the small buffer size in apple kbd + delays	10:11
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hrw	elo	10:14
RST38h	ehlo hrw	10:15
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hrw	250 PIPELLING RST38h	10:16
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rm_you	maybe I should port some more things	10:28
rm_you	what is something that people want	10:28
rm_you	porting an app should be interesting	10:29
rm_you	and a good learning exercise	10:29
hrw	rm_you: indeed	10:29
hrw	rm_you: port Openmoko Dates to hildon	10:29
rm_you	hrm	10:29
rm_you	k will look into it	10:29
RST38h	port conky properly	10:30
RST38h	as a desktop applet	10:30
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rm_you	hrw: looks nice from screenshots, but where is the source held!? >_>	10:33
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rm_you	oh, it is pimloco	10:34
rm_you	i thought there was already a pimloco port	10:34
rm_you	their site already has a .install for os2008 >_>	10:35
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GAN800	Hildonize Epiphany!	10:40
befr0d_	what's pimloco?	10:40
GAN800	~google pimlico	10:41
GAN800	too bad	10:41
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t_s_o	rm_you: their page say the latest version of contacts is 0.9, but the latest for maemo is 0.8, and i recall the release announcement said something about them not prioriticing maemo, they didnt even care about maemo specific bugs...	10:42
befr0d_	I actually searched on google before asking, could not find a software related entry. going to try other keywords :P	10:42
rm_you	heh	10:42
rm_you	epiphany? pfft	10:42
rm_you	wait, are you NOT talking about the web browser? :P	10:43
rm_you	i recall there being two "epiphany" apps	10:43
Stskeeps	why is it again that python-avahi doesn't port?	10:43
GAN800	web browset	10:43
GAN800	I'd like a MicroB alternative with tabs and such that doesn't suck.	10:44
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rm_you	... and you choose epiphany? >_>	10:44
t_s_o	:P	10:44
GAN800	Meh, I don't know Linux browsers.	10:45
GAN800	Pick whatever you like. ;)	10:45
rm_you	lol	10:45
GAN800	But preferrably something WebKit	10:45
rm_you	i want to start out with something easy,,,	10:46
rm_you	so maybe i will try pimloco to start	10:46
befr0d_	pimlico	10:46
XTLi	I think fixing the task switcher would be more useful than tabs	10:46
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XTLi	Since the wm isn't wimp crap	10:47
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rm_you	?	10:47
rm_you	fixing the task switcher?	10:47
aquatix	yeah, i don't miss tabs in microb, while i use a lot in my desktop firefox	10:47
aquatix	rm_you: no, it doesn't need fixing :)	10:47
rm_you	lol	10:48
aquatix	that's why we don't need tabs in microb	10:48
aquatix	imho	10:48
t_s_o	i would love to see a option to open external links in new windows tho...	10:48
aquatix	t_s_o: long tap, open in new window?	10:48
t_s_o	aquatix: that works from inside modest?	10:48
GAN800	Meh, I don't like the fiddling involed in switching to a new window	10:48
GAN800	Way too many presses.	10:49
aquatix	t_s_o: er, modest already opens a new window i think	10:49
aquatix	but i might be mistaken	10:49
aquatix	the rss reader doesn't though	10:49
t_s_o	nor do modest in my experience	10:49
aquatix	hm, could be	10:50
t_s_o	but then right now i dont have a working browser at all so...	10:50
aquatix	claws mail does though	10:50
aquatix	so it's of course possible	10:50
aquatix	file a feature request :)	10:50
t_s_o	i think there is one allready	10:50
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rm_you	well, right when i decide to do some work, i lose my connection to my buildbox >_>	11:05
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sbaturzio	Aloha!	11:07
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rm_you	wow, so yeah, great... the server I tunnel through to get to my buildbox is down. >_<	11:09
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aquatix	rm_you: :(	11:15
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darkterror46	greetings	11:16
rm_you	OMFG, Ultima Online in 1st person, with the Iris 3D Linux Client	11:16
rm_you	http://www.iris2.de/index.php/Image:300703.jpg	11:16
darkterror46	could someone tellme how can i enable the execution of a.out files in the n810 term?	11:18
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aquatix	rm_you: neat	11:18
aquatix	darkterror46: make them executable?	11:19
aquatix	chmod +x a.out	11:19
aquatix	i guess that'd work	11:19
rm_you	did you ever play UO? :P	11:19
darkterror46	:)	11:19
aquatix	rm_you: no, actually, but i thought it interesting	11:19
rm_you	:P	11:20
* aquatix refrains from playing such addictive games		11:20
aquatix	i've got enough computer-related addictions :)	11:20
darkterror46	nope that doesn't work aquatix	11:21
darkterror46	i still get permission denied	11:21
rm_you	hrm...	11:21
aquatix	compile them to a sensible binary? ;)	11:21
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rm_you	while [ true ]; do mplayer 01_nightwish-escapist_unreleased-amrc.mp3; done	11:21
rm_you	is that bad? >_>	11:21
rm_you	that's been running for like 2 hours :/	11:22
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rm_you	man I am bored when I don't have my buildbox >_>	11:22
darkterror46	aquatix ok what is a sensible binary? do i need to cry? :)	11:22
aquatix	hm, is that a new track from them?	11:22
rm_you	I really should install scratchbox locally	11:23
rm_you	aquatix: was on ... errr	11:23
rm_you	Nightwish-Dark_Passion_Play-Limited_Boxset_Edition_Bonus_Disc-2007-AMRC	11:23
aquatix	as i don't have it :)	11:23
aquatix	ah yeah	11:23
rm_you	lol does EVERYONE in this channel listen to nightwish? :P	11:23
aquatix	i don't have an album from them since they switched their lead singer	11:24
rm_you	ah	11:24
rm_you	I like her	11:24
prometoys	hi, i tried to install scratchbox, but have this problem: "Scratchbox command '/scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser' is not executable."	11:24
aquatix	didn't hear her yet	11:24
sibbe	actually the effect of while [ true ] is exactly same as while [ false ] or even while [ maybe ] :)	11:24
rm_you	she isn't an opera singer, obviously, so their style changed	11:24
rm_you	but Amaranth is an excellent song	11:24
sibbe	it evaluates as a string	11:24
rm_you	sibbe: ah right, should have been `true` :P	11:24
rm_you	i think	11:24
rm_you	wait...	11:24
sibbe	just "while true"	11:24
rm_you	yeah	11:25
rm_you	lol	11:25
rm_you	not enclosed in test	11:25
XTLi	Nice that Marco sings these days	11:25
sibbe	seen that, it's even on maemo initfs :D	11:25
rm_you	yeah, While Your Lips Are Still Red was him, right?	11:25
rm_you	that is a good song	11:25
t_s_o	i wonder if timely is active right now...	11:25
prometoys	hi, is here somebody to like to help me with the scratchpad installation?	11:25
rm_you	SEE?! EVERYONE!	11:25
XTLi	I know someone who sounds just like Tarja. Haven't seen her in a while, though	11:25
rm_you	Nightwish is coming to TX in September...	11:26
rm_you	I am excited...	11:26
aquatix	rm_you: if you like Nightwish, you should try some Within Temptation	11:26
rm_you	ACK I hope it isn't the same weekend of the Maemo Summit :P	11:26
aquatix	dutch band, quite cool	11:26
XTLi	Ugh	11:26
rm_you	Nightwish always reminded me of Blind Guardian, but I think they actually started at about the same time, lol	11:26
aquatix	rm_you: the silent force is nice, for example	11:26
rm_you	Nightwish just had a more operatic feel, thanks to Tarja, obviously	11:26
rm_you	aquatix: will check it out	11:26
XTLi	There's female singer popmetal bands dime a dozen today	11:27
rm_you	you should grab Dark Passion Play	11:27
prometoys	is there another maemo channel for developers or sdk support?	11:27
rm_you	and the bonus discs, Escapist is an excellent track	11:27
rm_you	dunno why it didnt make the main CD	11:27
rm_you	they must have been like, pft, this CD has too much awesome, we must remove some	11:27
aquatix	XTLi: true, so it's nice when you find an actually good one :)	11:27
rm_you	prometoys: no, that's us	11:27
rm_you	prometoys: do you mean Scratchbox?	11:27
aquatix	not listened to the new nightwish yet	11:27
prometoys	rm_you: yes	11:27
rm_you	prometoys: I believe the new wiki page is fairly up to date?	11:28
* aquatix fires up rtorrent		11:28
rm_you	prometoys: are you in linux or windows	11:28
rm_you	aquatix: i run uTorrent in WINE >_>	11:28
rm_you	it is flawless now in wine 1.0 >_>	11:28
rm_you	and actually uses comparable resources to rtorrent, even in WINE <_<	11:28
* aquatix likes deluge torrent		11:28
prometoys	rm_you: linux	11:28
rm_you	is it like uTorrent?	11:29
rm_you	or non-gui?	11:29
aquatix	but i'll not download at work, so i'm firing up rtorrent at home ;)	11:29
prometoys	rm_you: i tried the script, but there was not enough space on /	11:29
aquatix	it's quite like utorrent	11:29
rm_you	torrents is the one thing i like GUI for	11:29
rm_you	prometoys: hrm	11:29
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aquatix	rtorrent is cli	11:29
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rm_you	prometoys: well, you have another partition that has space?	11:29
prometoys	re	11:29
rm_you	aquatix: i know	11:29
rm_you	i used it	11:29
prometoys	rm_you: even simpler, I use LVM and extended /	11:29
rm_you	but am running uTorrent specifically so i get a GUI :P	11:29
rm_you	prometoys: err, and there is not enough space?	11:30
rm_you	prometoys: then you need to make space? :P	11:30
aquatix	rm_you: try deluge :)	11:30
prometoys	rm_you: then I was forced to delete /scratchpad	11:30
aquatix	or azureus if you like ;)	11:30
rm_you	right, is it GUI?	11:30
rm_you	ick no	11:30
prometoys	rm_you: then the script failed again	11:30
rm_you	azureus = java = EXPLODE	11:30
aquatix	10:29:12 aquatix \| it's quite like utorrent	11:30
rm_you	ah	11:30
rm_you	prometoys: so... how much free space do you have on / ?	11:31
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aquatix	rm_you: http://deluge-torrent.org/screenshots.php ;)	11:31
prometoys	rm_you: 800mb	11:31
aquatix	even has a web gui	11:31
rm_you	aquatix: installing now, is in Sid repos	11:31
rm_you	prometoys: you need much more	11:31
aquatix	yeah, it's in sid and ubuntu	11:31
rm_you	python based?	11:32
aquatix	it's my primary bt client	11:32
aquatix	yeah	11:32
aquatix	but it's snappy :)	11:32
rm_you	yeah :P	11:32
XTLi	Not much you can do with little shy of a bit :)	11:32
rm_you	some people dis on python for being slow... I don't :P	11:32
prometoys	rm_you: how much?	11:32
aquatix	rm_you: me neither :)	11:32
rm_you	prometoys: I can't get to my buildbox to check right now, unfortunately :(	11:32
aquatix	i saw some snappy python stuff on my n810 too	11:33
XTLi	I remember Grail	11:33
prometoys	rm_you: http://www.prometoys.net/downloads/scratch.log	11:33
rm_you	I think possibly 2.0+ gigs	11:33
darkterror46	great ! now i can compile in the n810 but can't execute it	11:33
aquatix	XTLi: eek, python with tcl/tk?	11:33
Italodance	http://i.gsmarena.com/vv/newsimg/08/06/bunch-of-nokias/thumb/gsmarena_001.jpg	11:34
Italodance	N79!	11:34
aquatix	``Grail supports full HTML 2.0, including images, forms and imagemaps, and many HTML 3.2 features'' <- yay!	11:34
prometoys	rm_you: but it didn't mention this on the error, apt runs fine, but then the script fails, because there is no /scratchbox	11:34
* aquatix squints at tiny jpg		11:34
aquatix	Italodance: that's good?	11:34
rm_you	E: Scratchbox command '/scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser' is not executable.	11:35
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rm_you	prometoys: scratchbox is actually missing?	11:35
prometoys	rm_you: maybe i better create a new partition only for scratchbox	11:35
rm_you	or just not executable?	11:35
prometoys	rm_you: yes	11:35
prometoys	rm_you: not there	11:35
prometoys	rm_you: before the script didn't work, because it exist	11:36
rm_you	ok well	11:36
rm_you	do	11:36
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aquatix	Italodance: i quite like the e71	11:36
rm_you	apt-get remove "scratchbox*"	11:36
rm_you	and then start from the beginning	11:36
rm_you	sounds like something broke earlier on	11:37
rm_you	hopefully the packages will still be in your apt cache so it wont have to DL them again	11:37
prometoys	rm_you: ok, thanks for your help, i will try this	11:37
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prometoys	rm_you: can i create a extra partition /scratchbox or will the scripts fail because the directory exist?	11:40
prometoys	yes, I can ;)	11:42
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rm_you	yeah :P	11:44
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prometoys	rm_you: "You now have Scratchbox 1.0.8 'apophis' release installed." Yeeha. :) Thanks alot	11:50
rm_you	:P	11:50
rm_you	np, glad it was that simple :P	11:50
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opendeep	I installed one package, menu Icon is coming but tool bar Icon is not coming, it's giving hildon-desktop[9585]: GLIB WARNING ** default - Application bablu_main.py - Menu did not provide valid .desktop file	11:51
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opendeep	Checked .desktop file against hello-world package .desktop but no difference, hello-world icon is coming in tool bar? what's wrong ?	11:54
rm_you	can you copy the .desktop file to a pastebin?	11:55
rm_you	www.slexy.org www.pastebin.ca	11:55
Stskeeps	newest Linus quote: "I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys"	11:58
XTLi	Url? :D	11:59
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opendeep	rm_you:URL: http://rafb.net/p/0fiY4U23.html	12:01
rm_you	only thing I can think of is that it doesnt like the "!"	12:02
rm_you	but that is kind of dumb...	12:02
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rm_you	opendeep: is this a statusbar program, or is it launched from the menu?	12:03
XTLi	Seems to be missing most of the sentence, too	12:04
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wnd	XTLi, http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950	12:05
opendeep	rm_you:It is launched from menu	12:05
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t_s_o	wnd: nice one	12:07
aquatix	Stskeeps: whoa, that quote is out of context :)	12:11
t_s_o	ah, finaly, got syslogd installed. so now i have some nice logging of whats going on behind the scene with browser and browserd :)	12:13
XTLi	Very	12:13
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aquatix	XTLi: indeed	12:13
aquatix	bookmarked it so i can throw it into someone's face when i come across the quote again ;)	12:14
zap	Anybody knows if there is documentation on OMAP2420 available somewhere? Not speaking of the PowerVR, but at least the basic stuff	12:20
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rm_you	opendeep: have you tried removing the "!"? :/	12:21
rm_you	that is really all i can think of	12:22
opendeep	rm_you: In .desktop Name ?	12:24
rm_you	yeah :/	12:24
rm_you	otherwise it looks perfectly fine <_<	12:25
rm_you	but really that shouldnt cause a problem :(	12:25
aquatix	http://en.tiraecol.net/modules/comic/cache/images/tiraecol_en-2.png <- g	12:26
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XTLi	:)	12:30
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*** Chenkai has joined #maemo		12:35
Chenkai	:-	12:36
Chenkai	=-O	12:36
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*** Chenkai has joined #maemo		12:36
Chenkai	=-O	12:36
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johnx	hello Chenkai	12:36
Chenkai	hi, it is my first time to use IRC ;-)	12:37
johnx	welcome :)	12:37
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Chenkai	:-)	12:41
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rm_you	johnx: well? thoughts? :P	12:50
johnx	rm_you, my hair is shorter. :P	12:51
rm_you	lol	12:51
johnx	that's my only thought	12:51
rm_you	I should do that >_>	12:51
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rm_you	I shall go have hair surgery next week, have them surgically remove about 3 inches	12:51
johnx	I still say you're better off making it an explicit step. I can't think of any debian package that does it this way	12:51
rm_you	it will be glorious	12:52
rm_you	I can't think of any other similar situation >_>	12:52
johnx	my health plan doesn't cover hair-ectomy, so I pay someone in a sketchy little shop :S	12:52
rm_you	I got a coupon when I bought hotdogs :P	12:52
johnx	"buy some sausage, lose some hair" ?	12:53
rm_you	:P	12:53
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rm_you	poor sachin007	12:53
rm_you	he's been trying and failing to get a2dp to work for like 6 months IIRC	12:53
johnx	that's why I told him not to buy bt headphones	12:53
rm_you	I feel bad for the guy	12:53
johnx	I do too, kinda	12:54
* johnx is more of a jerk than rm_you		12:54
rm_you	lol	12:54
rm_you	only KINDA feel bad :P	12:54
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XTLi	I do my own hair surgery.	12:55
XTLi	Haven't had bigger ops done in over tes years :)	12:55
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XTLi	Ten	12:55
lardman	rm_you: it's not that hard?!	12:55
rm_you	well I think I will sleep soon... and possibly sushi in the morning :P	12:56
rm_you	lardman: AH!	12:56
rm_you	you're here	12:56
rm_you	which?	12:56
rm_you	ah yeah	12:56
lardman	getting a2dp to work	12:56
rm_you	no it isn't :(	12:56
rm_you	sad	12:56
rm_you	you feel bad for him too? :P	12:56
johnx	hey, I had problems with it at first too, so did both of you :P	12:56
lardman	but the cryptic bluez error messages can be annoying	12:56
rm_you	johnx: less so than most :P	12:56
lardman	johnx: absolutely	12:56
rm_you	johnx: i think i may have been one of the first to get video playing? >_>	12:57
johnx	yeah, that's three people who should have been able to figure it out, but none of us have :\|	12:57
rm_you	i did submit the patch for it... >_>	12:57
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johnx	here's my theory: it registers the capabilities that both devices support on first pairing and stores it somewhere	12:57
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lardman	rm_you: with the dsp?	12:58
rm_you	lardman: no, not with DSP yet	12:58
johnx	since the tablet doesn't support a2dp at that point, it's not a capability...	12:58
rm_you	though i havent tried the new release	12:58
lardman	johnx: we could always ask on the Bluez lists	12:58
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johnx	sure, I'll test something first though. Maybe I'll do a reflash...	12:58
lardman	rm_you: please do give it a go, you need to flash the kernel then echo 0 (iirc) into /sys/power/something_or_other_DSP_related	12:58
rm_you	heh	12:59
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rm_you	hrm i was just about to sleep	12:59
rm_you	but what the hell :P	12:59
t_s_o	hmm, ferroelectric nand...	12:59
lardman	the instructions are in the release notes anyway	12:59
rm_you	i'll cook up a couple pimpsteaks and get crackin	12:59
rm_you	linky? :P	12:59
*** lcuk_zzz is now known as lcuk_work		12:59
lardman	hang on a ticky	13:00
lardman	https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=665&release_id=1934	13:00
lardman	release 1.1.0	13:00
rm_you	lardman: did you see my solution for osso-software-rx*-unlocked?	13:01
rm_you	err	13:01
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rm_you	-version-	13:01
lardman	rm_you: I think I saw it but didn't get round to reading it	13:01
lcuk_work	rm_you, you never sleep	13:01
rm_you	lol	13:01
rm_you	lcuk_work: what did YOU think	13:01
rm_you	i need opinions	13:01
rm_you	it's apparently either love or hate	13:02
lcuk_work	opinions to what? ive just vnced in and looked at irc since ummm a while back	13:02
rm_you	heh	13:02
rm_you	osso-software-version-unlocked	13:02
* lcuk_work still doesnt know what you are on about :P		13:03
rm_you	nevermind... if you didn't ever struggle with that issue, then it wouldnt mean much to you	13:03
rm_you	i know lardman does	13:03
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rm_you	errr	13:04
rm_you	what is there that acts like a .bashrc / .bash_profile in busybox/sh?	13:04
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zap	/etc/profile ?	13:04
rm_you	thx	13:04
lardman	rm_you: this is the thing about upgrading packages which the OS relies upon?	13:05
rm_you	lardman: yes	13:05
XTLi	Does it read .profile, too	13:05
lardman	rm_you: linky? ;)	13:06
rm_you	lardman: err, it's more of a proof of concept / explanation	13:07
crashanddie	hey everyone !	13:07
rm_you	lardman: i have a demo set up in my own repo	13:07
rm_you	basically... ugh lemmie see if i can dig this out of the logs, its like three paragraphs	13:07
johnx	rm_you, ~/.profile	13:07
* johnx makes dinner		13:07
crashanddie	lunch?	13:07
rm_you	lardman: so.	13:08
crashanddie	Wow	13:08
crashanddie	LADIES AND CUCUMBERS !	13:08
lardman	rm_you: was it on IRC?	13:08
crashanddie	I have the official results of the first gps battery test !	13:09
lardman	crashanddie: :)	13:09
rm_you	you install a package named "osso-software-version" which "replaces: osso-software-version-rx34, osso-software-version-rx44", and it comes with both rx34-unlocked and rx44-unlocked debs... then during postinst it forks, figures out which hardware it is on, and waits for dpkg / apt to exit and then installs the correct deb	13:09
rm_you	it let us properly name the xserver-xomap package (for example) in which we added rotation support to a higher version and the maintainer for THAT puts my package "osso-software-version-unlocked" in as a "Depends"	13:09
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crashanddie	The n810 managed a whopping 12 hours and 27 minutes in its first run !	13:09
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rm_you	crashanddie: O_o	13:09
rm_you	crashanddie: idle, + gpsd?	13:10
lardman	rm_you: ah, ok	13:10
crashanddie	aye	13:10
crashanddie	with the occasional tap on the screen	13:10
crashanddie	oh, and btw, I got a reply from Wayfinder support	13:10
rm_you	lardman: so, bad things about this: HAAAACK! dpkg postinst is installing an extra package stealthily without notifying the user (technically, though the user is notified essentially that this is happening, since they are installing a generic version of the real package)	13:11
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rm_you	lardman: there is a possible point of failure, if the package manager is never closed and the device dies from something like battery, etc, where it is a hard-shutoff	13:11
crashanddie	You remember I emailed them because I couldn't get through the downloading process of some maps ?	13:11
rm_you	lardman: on the up side, the WORST POSSIBLE OUTCOME is that you need to run "enable-unlocked"	13:12
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rm_you	^^^ the script it installs to handle the installation of the correct unlocking package	13:12
crashanddie	this is the reply I got: http://slexy.org/view/s20Pb7wfgd	13:13
rm_you	lardman: it makes the process VERY easy, as all a package maintainer (like you for bluez) must do is increment their package version like they wanted to in the beginning, and add one thing, "osso-software-version-unlocked" to the Depends of their package	13:13
crashanddie	you'll note that the link she gave was non-existent at the time of writing of the email... :D	13:13
crashanddie	I've been a sucker for version number	13:14
rm_you	lardman: http://slexy.org/view/s20XlDA1g8	13:14
crashanddie	how do you define you're at version 0.1.8.13.3.4.6.2.9.3,5 ?	13:14
wnd	rm_you, I sorry to jump in like this, but what exactly are you trying to accomplish?	13:14
rm_you	wnd: no please do, i am looking for opinions	13:15
rm_you	trying to decide if this method is even remotely acceptable as a solution to the problem	13:15
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lardman	rm_you: it sounds interesting	13:15
rm_you	wnd: the problem is that the devices use a package to maintain the correct system packages, as part of the SSE thing with diablo. the package is different for n810 and n800	13:16
lardman	rm_you: and would probably do the job	13:16
rm_you	wnd: ex, osso-software-version-rx34	13:16
rm_you	wnd: ex, osso-software-version-rx44	13:16
lardman	what happens with upgrades?	13:16
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rm_you	wnd: so, it locks down the EXACT versions of packages to that which was installed stock on the device	13:16
lardman	just replaces your packages I guess?	13:16
rm_you	lardman: it updates as if you had installed it normally	13:16
rm_you	:)	13:17
lardman	rm_you: sounds like a plan; won't happen for a while though as I'm away next week	13:17
crashanddie	rm_you, so the idea would be to create transition packages per device ?	13:17
rm_you	wnd: they provide another package, osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked which allows for >= instead of == on the package deps	13:17
rm_you	crashanddie: i think they wanted to be prepared for offering different versions of certain system libraries depending on the hardware	13:18
lardman	what about combining hacks? I suppose that will be troublesome?	13:18
rm_you	crashanddie: at the moment, i'm not sure there is a difference. the packages are only meta-packages....	13:18
rm_you	lardman: ??	13:18
lardman	or have you done s/=/>=	13:18
rm_you	lardman: I don't depend on it	13:18
lardman	say your xerver + my hacked Bluez-utils	13:18
wnd	so far so good I guess. what do you want to do?	13:18
rm_you	you just depend on "osso-software-version-unlocked", no version, thats it	13:19
rm_you	and my package has no depends of its own	13:19
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lcuk_work	lardman http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=203514#post203514	13:19
rm_you	wnd: so, the problem is, when installing an updated version of a system package (say, xserver-xomap with rotation support), the "locked version" (osso-software-version-rx34) blocks it	13:20
lardman	I can't copy& paste :(	13:20
rm_you	wnd: so, what your package would need to do is depend on the -unlocked version of the same package	13:20
rm_you	BUT	13:20
lardman	lcuk_work: ok, found it; we'll see	13:21
rm_you	since you can't do any kind of complicated logic in package dependencies, there is no way to decide in the deps of your package whether it is going to be installed on an n800 or an n810, except by making two separate releases	13:21
rm_you	wnd: since you need to install the -unlocked package specific to the hardware	13:21
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rm_you	wnd: that's pretty much the problem	13:21
* wnd nods		13:22
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rm_you	wnd: my solution was to make a generic version of the unlocked meta-package that would perform the logic necessary to choose which to install, and do that as seamlessly as possible	13:22
rm_you	IE, http://slexy.org/view/s20XlDA1g8	13:22
rm_you	lardman: just run the install_sbcenc.sh script	13:24
rm_you	lardman: and then i also have to do the kernel flash and reboot?	13:24
rm_you	right	13:24
rm_you	?	13:24
wnd	and you really want to create a package that installs osso-foo-unlocked without user's explicit action?	13:24
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, http://www.navicoretech.com/Consumer/Support/Downloads/tablet/en_GB/wfnavigator/	13:24
rm_you	wnd: user's explicit action would be necessary to have it install the new version of xserver-xomap	13:24
lcuk_work	wtfnavigator?	13:24
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, they've updated the downloads on the website as I request in my email.	13:24
rm_you	and if the user explicitly tells it to install that, then yes	13:24
rm_you	otherwise apt will, because of the locked software-version, hold back the upgrade	13:25
rm_you	so it does not just do it "automatically"	13:25
wnd	imho it would be better to instruct user to "unlock" his copy of maemo, and only then install randr-enabled xserver	13:25
lcuk_work	crashanddie, :) nice result	13:25
rm_you	wnd: yes, opinions seem to be split right down the middle	13:25
crashanddie	lcuk_work, I concur :)	13:26
lcuk_work	you are on a roll	13:26
crashanddie	I'll post something on itT	13:26
rm_you	it seems that if a user WANTED to install a package that required unlocking, and they specifically tell apt to do it, then why make them do an extra step?	13:26
crashanddie	~updatedmaps is at http://www.navicoretech.com/Consumer/Support/Downloads/tablet/en_GB/wfnavigator/	13:26
infobot	crashanddie: okay	13:26
lcuk_work	what if the user didnt know and just thought it was like every other package	13:27
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rm_you	99% of the people who try to install it and see it fail due to locked software-version will spend 5-30 minutes on IRC or forums looking for solution, find out they need to install some unlocked package, and do it anyway	13:27
wnd	I tend to think unlocking as kind of "no warranty -- if it breaks, you get to keep both pieces" kind of action	13:28
rm_you	if the user is using apt...	13:28
lcuk_work	how sure are you its stable	13:28
rm_you	the package should not install without red-pill...	13:28
rm_you	or using apt directly	13:28
rm_you	so again, red-pill is the same warning already	13:28
rm_you	as is gaining root on the device	13:28
rm_you	really at that point it is more an annoyance than an obstacle with a reason to be there	13:29
lcuk_work	people see that as a way to get round nokia and not to do dangerous stuff to their device	13:29
lcuk_work	"heh look i got root" kind of mentality	13:29
rm_you	lardman: what all does this kernel include? xrandr? mmc speed?	13:29
rm_you	lcuk_work: and if they know how to use apt	13:29
rm_you	they are ready to break their device (or not) anyway	13:30
lcuk_work	or read it from irc or a forum	13:30
lcuk_work	no, they want rotation cos its a cool hack	13:30
rm_you	in which case they will continue to read the same thing about how to do the unlock in the same irc or gorum	13:30
rm_you	yeah, in which case they will still ignore any warnings	13:30
trickie	just thought i would let anyone know... cannot do much on the community kernel side of things until i get a net connection at my new apartment, then i intend on puttin some time into it	13:31
lcuk_work	i mean, from my side i can see rotation as a simple package being great, but since it requires more than a normal app im a bit nervous	13:31
rm_you	lcuk_work: I am currently working on a meta-package called "rotation-support"	13:32
lcuk_work	cool	13:32
rm_you	and I have actually been CONSIDERING having it automatically flash the kernel in postinst >_> which I do think is horrible	13:32
rm_you	HORRIBLE	13:32
rm_you	wait, not emphasized enough	13:32
rm_you	*H_O_R_R_I_B_L_E*	13:33
rm_you	but yet i am still considering it >_>	13:33
wnd	I see "unlocked" package as kind of acknowledgement, much like red-pill mode, that user agrees that he knows what he's doing.	13:33
rm_you	for ease of use	13:33
rm_you	and red-pill is required to install it	13:33
rm_you	so i dont see the point	13:33
XTLi	This message has been marked as spam	13:34
lcuk_work	"rotation_kernel_upgrade.metapackage" :)	13:34
darkterror46	anyone here compiling in the n810 ?	13:34
rm_you	it's like the "Are you sure?" messages...	13:34
lcuk_work	rm_you, is there a difference between 800 and 810 kernel?	13:34
lcuk_work	darkterror46, yes	13:34
rm_you	once you click yes to the first one, no way in hell are you going to even read the next 5 in a row	13:34
rm_you	lcuk_work: i dont believe so, no	13:35
lcuk_work	not right now mind you, ive left mine at home today	13:35
lardman	rm_you: the one on the sbc garage page is vanilla + dvfs patch	13:35
lardman	rm_you: qwerty did an all-in-one though I think	13:35
rm_you	lardman: >_> so no rotation for me? >_>	13:35
darkterror46	:) lcuk_work could you tell me how can i enable execution for the compiled files?	13:35
rm_you	OH i grabbed his	13:35
rm_you	i ahve it! yay	13:35
rm_you	chmod +x a.out	13:35
lcuk_work	darkterror46, where is the compiled binary stored. the chances are you have it on the FAT mmc2	13:35
lardman	see if you have the /sys/power/op_dsp file	13:35
rm_you	OH yeah that too	13:35
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darkterror46	in the mini sd	13:36
lcuk_work	gcc marks binaries as +x automatically doesnt it	13:36
darkterror46	yes	13:36
darkterror46	it does	13:36
darkterror46	i get permission deniad	13:36
rm_you	it may be on a filesystem mounted noexec	13:36
wnd	or fat(32)	13:36
darkterror46	even when executing as root	13:36
rm_you	/dev/mmcblk1p1 on /media/mmc1 type vfat (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,uid=29999,fmask=0133,dmask=0000,codepage=cp437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,utf8)	13:36
rm_you	,nodev,noexec,	13:36
lcuk_work	darkterror46, try copying the binary to your ~ folder and giving it +x rights. the memory cards are usually formatted as FAT which does not have execute permissions	13:36
darkterror46	ah	13:37
darkterror46	can i enable execute permissions to the fat partitions? like in fstab?	13:37
lardman	lcuk_work: the fact it's fat and the noexec are separate	13:37
lcuk_work	i have reformatted my mmc1 to be ext2 and work directly from there (look guys, i did something linuxy :D)	13:37
rm_you	lcuk_work: yay! :P	13:37
lcuk_work	so i could have made fat work?	13:38
rm_you	lardman: fiasco-flasher -f -F zImage ?	13:38
darkterror46	yes	13:38
lardman	yes, i think so	13:38
lardman	rm_you: no	13:38
darkterror46	thank you very much for your tip lcuk_work	13:38
lardman	rm_you: you're flashing qwerty's kernel?	13:38
rm_you	yes	13:38
lardman	rm_you: flasher -k zImage -f -R (iirc)	13:38
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rm_you	err	13:38
lcuk_work	lardman, where is the +x stored in FAT file info? there isnt any space for it	13:38
rm_you	flasher?	13:38
rm_you	what package provides that	13:39
lardman	ah, fiasco flasher, is that on-device?	13:39
rm_you	lcuk_work: usually all files on FAT are assumed +x	13:39
rm_you	lardman: yes	13:39
rm_you	lardman: last kernel flash I did was on-device	13:39
lardman	rm_you: ok, I've never used that, I was giving instructions for the flasher-3.0 from maemo.org	13:39
rm_you	ah >_>	13:39
lardman	you can safely ignore me ;)	13:39
darkterror46	yep thats it :) thank you very much lcuk_work	13:40
rm_you	anyone know how to do on-device kernel flash?	13:40
lcuk_work	:) well thanks for that nugget of conflicting information. does this mean that i could have kept FAT formatted memory card for windows access but also execute from it? or is this an in theory the noexec flag can be removed on this device?	13:40
rm_you	lcuk_work: i believe you could	13:41
rm_you	lcuk_work: would need to edit the fstab to remove noexec	13:41
rm_you	/dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/mmc1 vfat rw,noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,utf8,uid=29999 0 0	13:41
lcuk_work	might have been less painful in the longrun if i had a card with data on it	13:41
rm_you	/dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/mmc1 vfat rw,noauto,nodev,nosuid,utf8,uid=29999 0 0	13:41
darkterror46	lcuk_work: i do execution in fat partitions in my linux box so it should do the same in n810	13:41
rm_you	in /etc/fstab	13:41
lcuk_work	i just heard it wouldnt and had to format as something that would	13:42
* lcuk_work shrugs anyway		13:42
rm_you	lcuk_work: :(	13:42
darkterror46	no worries	13:42
lcuk_work	thanks anyway - i really do learn something new everyday	13:42
RST38bis	moo, gentlemen	13:42
RST38bis	I think it is still not possible on n800	13:43
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RST38bis	it's not using standard fstab	13:43
rm_you	RST38bis: ?	13:44
rm_you	cmon, no brick :P	13:44
rm_you	cmon, no brick :P	13:44
* lcuk_work bangs his head against a brick wall		13:44
RST38bis	rm: can't exec from fat partitions	13:45
rm_you	fsck, rebootloop :P yay, time to boot to internal, chroot, and fix it :P	13:45
rm_you	RST38bis: I can on my desktop	13:45
RST38bis	fsck fsck fsck...	13:45
Mikho	hmm, I have a GError and it's code is 32. How can I find out which macro it refers to?	13:45
RST38bis	only on desktop	13:45
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RST38bis	maemo does it differently	13:46
lcuk_work	srst, so i was ... right ... in what i said?	13:46
* lcuk_work gets ready to faint		13:47
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RST38bis	lcuk: yep	13:49
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rm_you	if i chroot into my SD card rootfs, and run kernel_flasher there, will it flash the kernel for THAT system?	13:51
RST38bis	advanced backlight with hildon theme is cool	13:52
rm_you	:)	13:52
RST38bis	any chance to add temperature and brightness gauges as two extra applets?;)	13:55
aquatix	temperature would be interesting as tooltip or something	13:57
rm_you	yeah, brightness gauge is in there, just not used yet	13:58
RST38bis	gauge! make it a gauge!	13:58
rm_you	if someone helps me recover from a bad kernel flash, i'll work on it :P	13:58
RST38bis	rm: i mean external brightness of course	13:58
rm_you	yes	13:58
* RST38bis prays about rm to Cthulhu		13:59
aquatix	rm_you: make that settable too, please ;)	13:59
* aquatix would love a slider for external brightness		13:59
rm_you	hehe	13:59
hrw	rm_you: flasher -f -R -k zImage	14:00
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XTLi	Gauges that don' spend your cpu time and battery when you don' need them would be nice	14:01
rm_you	i was using fanoush's kernel_flasher	14:01
rm_you	where do i get that one?	14:02
crashanddie	XTLi, than ask people to stop doing them in python	14:02
XTLi	crashanddie: :D	14:02
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Khertan_n810	Hi !	14:03
crashanddie	best way, I reckon: activate them for 10 minutes (or any configurable amount of time) when they're tapped	14:03
XTLi	Maybe rrdb logger thingy if that could run economically	14:03
rm_you	erm	14:03
rm_you	it may not have been the kernel that was the issue	14:03
rm_you	i think it may have been something install_sbcend.sh did	14:03
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Khertan_n810	someone have already try to install debhelper on it device ?	14:03
Khertan_n810	i ve some problem with	14:04
Khertan_n810	dpkg : « ldconfig » introuvable dans la variable PATH.	14:04
timeless	hello	14:04
rm_you	lardman: ....	14:04
crashanddie	"introuvable" shudders	14:04
Khertan_n810	oups ... sorry message in french	14:05
rm_you	i think he reads french :P	14:05
lardman	rm_you: yep?	14:05
Khertan_n810	cannot be find in varaiable PATH	14:05
rm_you	lardman: have to verify... it wasn't the kernel	14:05
crashanddie	khertan, ldconfig is in libc6, not debhelper (iirc)	14:06
Khertan_n810	s/find/found	14:06
rm_you	lardman: it was either your bluez-utils or something install_sbcenc.sh did that put me in a rebootloop	14:06
lardman	hmm	14:06
crashanddie	khertan, cava, tu galeres pas trop avec les accents sur le clavier de ton n810 ? :P	14:06
rm_you	verifying and isolating now	14:06
Khertan_n810	crashanddie ? what does it mean ?	14:06
lardman	I did try adding qwerty's become root business in the script	14:06
rm_you	dont think so	14:06
rm_you	i mean	14:06
rm_you	not the problem	14:06
aquatix	Khertan_n810: that it couldn't find the ldconfig program	14:07
crashanddie	Khertan_n810, oh, you mean you get "ldconfig introuble" during the post-installation of debhelper ?	14:07
Khertan_n810	crashanddie no, i use chr key pressed and the letterr	14:07
rm_you	lardman: to fix the reboot loop i chrooted into the rootfs and undid the script manually	14:07
crashanddie	Khertan_n810, I gave up accents :P	14:07
lardman	rm_you: it doesn't do anything else in particular	14:07
rm_you	lardman: can tell you in one second	14:07
rm_you	lardman: oh, did notice a bug	14:07
Khertan_n810	crashanddie in the post install script, yes	14:07
rm_you	lardman: the script does not check to see if the sbcenc.o is already in the dsp tesk list	14:07
rm_you	it just appends it again	14:07
crashanddie	Khertan_n810, you running diablo or chinook ?	14:07
rm_you	that could be it	14:08
rm_you	it was in there twice when i went in to remove the line	14:08
Khertan_n810	crashanddie : diablo	14:08
lardman	ah, yes that is true	14:08
lardman	that could screw things up	14:08
rm_you	that is easy tho	14:08
Khertan_n810	i m trying to make dpkg-buildpackage useable on my device	14:08
rm_you	just an if [ `grep` ] check	14:08
rm_you	ok, bluez-utils installed, still booting	14:08
crashanddie	Khertan_n810, could you "dpkg -l \| grep libc6"	14:08
rm_you	now to check after the script	14:08
crashanddie	Ha ! No pipe on n810 :/	14:09
opendeep	Can any body seen this error before?	14:09
opendeep	Nokia-N810-50-2:/home/user# bablu	14:09
opendeep	python2.5[1555]: GLIB MESSAGE default - don't know how to handle audio/x-raw-int, rate=(int)44100, channels=(int)1, endianness=(int)1234, width=(int)32, depth=(int)16, signed=(boolean)true	14:09
* RST38x breaks into diabolical laughter		14:09
crashanddie	opendeep, you're probably missing a gstreamer plugin	14:09
RST38x	open: yes	14:10
rm_you	lardman: ran script...	14:10
rm_you	lardman: still booting	14:10
Khertan_n810	ii libc6 2.5.0-1osso9 GNU C Library: Shared libraries and Timezone d	14:10
rm_you	is possible that it being in there twice exploded it	14:10
crashanddie	khertan, sudo gainroot, then "ldconfig"	14:11
opendeep	I am running .ogg files , what plugin I need to download?	14:11
Khertan_n810	not found	14:12
RST38x	x-raw-int is ogg???	14:12
crashanddie	Khertan_n810, that's bad	14:12
Khertan_n810	yes i know	14:13
crashanddie	Khertan_n810, apt-file tells me ldconfig comes from the libc6 package, you have libc6 package, but still ldconfig is missing	14:13
Khertan_n810	yes	14:13
crashanddie	khertan, try reinstalling libc6	14:13
lardman	rm_you: you up and running yet?	14:14
X-Fade	Khertan_n810: sudo gainroot; ldconfig	14:14
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X-Fade	Khertan_n810: Works for me?	14:14
crashanddie	X-Fade, not found	14:14
crashanddie	X-Fade, works here too	14:14
X-Fade	crashanddie: Not on my stock install.	14:14
Khertan_n810	arg i understand now it s a bug with path and script rootsh	14:15
Khertan_n810	trying by ssh work	14:15
crashanddie	ah	14:15
crashanddie	Khertan_n810, ls /usr/bin/ldconfig	14:15
X-Fade	It is in /sbin/ldconfig	14:15
crashanddie	oh yeah, that's the one	14:15
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Khertan_n810	ouf !	14:15
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crashanddie	Khertan_n810, Mhuwhahahaha, tu te sens soulagé là hein :P	14:16
Jaffa	Is there a bug raised in Bugzilla for the SSL cert on wiki.maemo.org expiring?	14:16
rm_you	lardman: got me some pimpsteaks	14:16
rm_you	and now i will try	14:16
X-Fade	Jaffa: We're already working on it.	14:16
lardman	cool	14:17
timeless	jaffa: should be easy to query :)	14:17
Khertan_n810	:)	14:17
timeless	x-fade: if there isn't a bug, please file it	14:17
Khertan_n810	thx a lot for the help	14:17
timeless	the reason for a bug tracker is to have a central point of contact	14:17
timeless	irc is nice, but it's better for people to learn to check bugzilla first	14:17
rm_you	without irc i would go mad!	14:18
crashanddie	god I hate hate the french language	14:18
crashanddie	rm_you, poor you	14:18
rm_you	crashanddie: lol? :P	14:18
rm_you	you speak it natively? :P	14:18
crashanddie	no, I don't	14:18
rm_you	ah	14:18
rm_you	thought you did	14:18
crashanddie	It's nearly my mother tongue, yet, it isn't	14:18
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rm_you	native english?	14:19
crashanddie	native dutch/flemish	14:19
Khertan_n810	must come back to work	14:19
Khertan_n810	bye	14:19
Khertan_n810	and thx	14:19
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rm_you	lardman: still not quite there yet for video :/	14:20
rm_you	lardman: slightly better	14:20
rm_you	err wait	14:20
rm_you	i forgot some kind of echo!	14:20
rm_you	what was it	14:20
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rm_you	lcuk_work: i use liqbase every day....	14:21
rm_you	lcuk_work: primarily as the fastest way i have of turning on performance mode :P	14:21
crashanddie	haha	14:21
rm_you	very convenient	14:21
crashanddie	don't we all ? :D	14:21
lardman	rm_you: and with the decoupling?	14:21
rm_you	lardman: trying to find the echo command	14:22
rm_you	lost in scrollback <_<	14:22
lardman	https://garage.maemo.org/frs/shownotes.php?release_id=1934	14:22
lardman	echo 0 > /sys/power/op_dsp	14:23
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Jaffa	timeless: it was very easy to query [here] ;-)	14:23
rm_you	slightly worse i think :/	14:23
rm_you	:(	14:24
rm_you	for video...	14:24
timeless	yeah yeah... if you can reach irc. not all of us can. i can't often enough :(	14:24
rm_you	timeless: you should fix that :P	14:24
lardman	rm_you: I'd be surprised	14:24
rm_you	lardman: i still dont know WHY	14:24
rm_you	it shouldnt be a processing issue at this point	14:24
timeless	i switched from using corporate network to a wifi w/ a stupid login page	14:24
timeless	(i'm here now, aren't i?)	14:25
rm_you	:P	14:25
lardman	rm_you: are you doing objective measurements woth mplayer output?	14:26
lcuk_work	rm_you, :) it works well. just wait until i add brightness applet to it	14:26
rm_you	lardman: well...	14:26
lardman	or subjective (like my sbc testing ;) )	14:26
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rm_you	very subjective, but VERY clear	14:27
rm_you	lardman: with software encoding, video plays FLAWLESSLY with a2dp audio	14:27
lardman	yep	14:27
rm_you	and the very same video with dsp encoding gets about .25 FPS	14:27
rm_you	that's 1 frame every 4 seconds	14:27
lardman	oh, really knackered hey?	14:27
rm_you	possibly less	14:27
lcuk_work	liqbase_adv_backlight_cpu_audio_hildon :P	14:27
rm_you	audio is still good tho	14:27
lardman	hmm, perhaps some sort of MMU contention then	14:28
rm_you	lardman: yeah, i'm not exaggerating, or just saying "well, i THINK this performed better..."	14:28
rm_you	it is very unusable with video	14:28
rm_you	audio seems flawless tho :P	14:28
lardman	rm_you: ok, that's interesting, I'll have to do some testing	14:28
lardman	:)	14:28
rm_you	here	14:29
rm_you	http://www.ageofikon.info/N10-Haruhi.avi	14:29
rm_you	that is my test video	14:29
lcuk_work	lardman, that sounds like the cpu is throttling back down	14:29
rm_you	any time i need benchmarks	14:29
rm_you	I put CPU on performance?	14:29
lcuk_work	rm_you, have you tryied in in performance for this test	14:29
rm_you	can i LOCK it at 400mhz?	14:29
lcuk_work	ahhh right	14:29
rm_you	or does performance do that	14:29
rm_you	i have not ever tried it in ondemand actually >_>	14:29
lcuk_work	no, you can put it in performance, but doesnt the max speed get lower when dsp in us	14:30
lardman	performance does that, and equally with the DSP running it should also lock	14:30
rm_you	ok well...	14:30
lardman	if you do the echo command	14:30
rm_you	yeah...	14:30
lcuk_work	try in powersave - its what ondemand slows down to, but its consistant	14:30
rm_you	lardman: try playing the video i linked	14:30
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lcuk_work	lardman, the echo command is what liqbase does :)	14:30
lcuk_work	if its the same echo	14:31
rm_you	lardman: it is VERY excellent with mp3 tho <_<	14:31
rm_you	not to get you down :P	14:31
lardman	lcuk_work: different target	14:31
lardman	rm_you: no, that's fair enough	14:31
lcuk_work	which are you altering?	14:32
lardman	echo 0 > /sys/power/op_dsp	14:32
rm_you	lardman: in powersave, it still plays mp3 perfectly :P	14:32
lardman	rm_you: it's probably not in powersave anymore though ;)	14:32
rm_you	:/	14:32
lardman	rm_you: check the actual cpu freq	14:32
rm_you	i tried to put it in powersave	14:32
zap	I remember I've seen somewhere a page with some very low-level details about kernel booting, flashing etc. Anybody remembers it?	14:32
rm_you	:/	14:32
lardman	dsp running probably overrides it	14:32
rm_you	where is cpufreq	14:33
zap	in cat /proc/cpuinfo ?	14:33
rm_you	there is another place	14:33
rm_you	isnt there?	14:33
zap	somewhere under /sys maybe	14:33
lcuk_work	"/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor	14:34
lardman	cur_cpu_freq	14:34
rm_you	Nezumi:~# cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_cur_freq	14:34
lardman	or similar	14:34
rm_you	165000	14:34
lardman	is there another?	14:34
rm_you	ah no	14:34
lardman	I think that says what the scaling should make the cpu speed	14:35
rm_you	you are right	14:35
rm_you	it does switch	14:35
rm_you	to 400mhz	14:35
lcuk_work	it shouldnt do 400 when the dsp is in use should it?	14:35
lardman	the other option is to just enable the DSP for low power mode and see how low it can be pushed	14:35
lardman	lcuk_work: yes, with the kernel patch	14:35
lcuk_work	ahhh	14:35
* lcuk_work goes for lunch		14:36
rm_you	well my real hope would be that the DSP could run and the main cpu could scale down	14:36
rm_you	and maybe save power? >_>	14:36
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lardman	rm_you: iirc there are popping noises if you change the DSP cpu freq while it's running	14:38
lardman	rm_you: you might need to preset the speed you want to run at	14:38
rm_you	well heres whats happening with the CPU:	14:39
rm_you	with software SBC, mplayer is at 45-55 average CPU	14:39
rm_you	and plays smoothly	14:39
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rm_you	with DSB SBC, mplayer averages about 35	14:39
rm_you	but like 1 frame every 6 seconds :/	14:39
rm_you	might i mention that the AUDIO is still 100% perfect	14:40
lardman	ah, playing video	14:40
lardman	:)	14:40
rm_you	all of my tests are playing video...	14:40
rm_you	since that is what is broken	14:40
rm_you	why would i test what works? :P	14:40
mattimo	what dhcp client does, the maemo use?	14:40
lardman	The DSP requires lots of little data transfers, the video updates also require lots of transfers, I wonder if there's some contention issue here	14:40
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zap	http://inz.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/vte-black.jpg	14:40
rm_you	make that 1 frame every 15 seconds	14:40
zap	interesting, how he does it	14:41
lardman	rm_you: you were talking about mp3 and low power, etc.	14:41
rm_you	not for test data :P	14:41
rm_you	just a sidethought	14:41
rm_you	sorry it confused you :P	14:41
lardman	np, doing some work at the same time :p	14:42
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rm_you	hrm	14:44
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rm_you	as a comparison point, playing the same video with esd audio out, mplayer uses ~35%	14:50
rm_you	same as with DSPSBC	14:50
rm_you	except with esp it plays right....	14:50
rm_you	so, yeah. weird.	14:50
rm_you	*esd	14:50
lardman	rm_you: do you fancy posting to the maemo-developers list	14:50
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rm_you	not really	14:51
rm_you	it is very hard for me to send email ATM	14:51
rm_you	especially from the account that is signed up	14:51
lardman	ah ok, well I'll see if I can do some benchmarking and get some feedback	14:51
rm_you	i will post on ITT all day long tho :/	14:51
rm_you	did you get that video?	14:51
lardman	?	14:51
rm_you	the one i sent for testing	14:52
rm_you	that plays perfectly with esd and software a2dp	14:52
lardman	no, I've not seen anything	14:52
lardman	did you email it to me?	14:52
rm_you	http://www.ageofikon.info/N10-Haruhi.avi	14:53
rm_you	keep linking it in channel	14:53
rm_you	pretty much every day	14:53
rm_you	it is good for benchmarking	14:53
lardman	ah ok, I've not really been paying much attention	14:53
rm_you	has some slow scenes and also ones with lots of movement	14:53
rm_you	and is only like 3 min long	14:53
rm_you	and a somewhat enjoyable song, depending on what you're into	14:53
rm_you	as a bonus since you'll be listening to it all day :P	14:53
rm_you	hrm	14:55
RST38h	I hope it does not contain tentacle rape scenes though	14:55
rm_you	LOL no :P	14:55
* RST38h cant check from the phone		14:55
rm_you	only one anime girl taking off her shirt <_< but she has a bra :P	14:55
rm_you	so it's all good :P	14:56
XTLi	Hmm	14:56
* lardman can't even download it on WinXP		14:56
aquatix	rm_you: good? how's only one taking off her shirt good?	14:56
rm_you	i wonder why the battery meter displays 3/4, when i've been using it for ~4 hours now without charging, in performance mode mostly, and it says i have one hour left	14:56
rm_you	lol	14:56
lardman	~lart WinXP	14:56
* infobot stabs WinXP		14:56
rm_you	aquatix: lol, more like, SFW :P	14:56
rm_you	lardman: is my link bad?	14:56
aquatix	ah :P	14:57
* aquatix downloads		14:57
rm_you	no, works :P	14:57
RST38h	rm: THE ESTIMATE MAY BE BASED ON YOUR MOST RECENT USAGE	14:57
aquatix	you know it by heart? ;)	14:57
rm_you	~lart WinXP angry bees	14:57
lardman	rm_you: no, my PC has been running for too long	14:57
* infobot whacks WinXP angry bees upside the head		14:57
RST38h	sorry for caps	14:57
rm_you	RST38h: :P	14:57
aquatix	lardman: er, that's only possible with windows :P	14:57
aquatix	running a pc for too long...	14:58
rm_you	my usage is pretty much constant :( and it is in performance mode? :P	14:58
lardman	yeah, needs a reboot every 4 months or so	14:58
mattimo	ok i'll ask again, does anybody know what dhcp client the maemo uses?	14:58
aquatix	doesn't it crash after 42 days anymore?	14:58
aquatix	or was that win98 :)	14:58
RST38h	rm: who knows what it uses to measure load...	14:58
lardman	mattimo: must be some apt command to tell you	14:58
rm_you	i cry every time i see a tablet screenshot posted here that doesn't have adv-backlight running in the statusbar :P	14:58
aquatix	[something to do with the uptime clock rotating after 16 bits int was full]	14:58
mattimo	lardman: thanks I'll try	14:59
rm_you	mattimo: udhcpc	14:59
* aquatix pats rm_you on the back		14:59
RST38h	may be doing WAIT if there are no tasks to run even in perf mode	14:59
rm_you	i wonder why not ALWAYS use perf mode <_<	14:59
zap	it does	14:59
* RST38h knows he would do something like this		14:59
wnd	mattimo, http://wide-dhcpv6.sourceforge.net/	14:59
mattimo	udhcpc could that be?	14:59
wnd	based on "dpkg -S $(which dhcp6c)"	15:00
aquatix	mattimo: that's what rm_you just said, yeah :)	15:00
wnd	hmm, interesting	15:00
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rm_you	most embedded devices use that	15:01
rm_you	i guess it must be lightweight	15:01
rm_you	Zaurus used it	15:01
wnd	first of all I totally forgot udhcp, and second, dhcp on ipv6? eww.	15:01
rm_you	Nezumi:/lib/dsp/modules# apt-cache search udhcpc	15:01
rm_you	udhcpc - very small DHCP client	15:01
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mattimo	rm_you: sry I didn't see it	15:01
rm_you	wnd: yeah, breaks Vista machines constantly >_>	15:01
rm_you	:P np	15:01
rm_you	wnd: and i have to fix them <_<	15:01
mattimo	is there a dbus interface to the udhcpc??	15:02
rm_you	dunno :/	15:02
mattimo	hmm	15:02
rm_you	well, it is time for me to SLEEEEEP	15:02
rm_you	was gonna do it 4 hours ago	15:02
rm_you	... thanks guys. really. >_<	15:02
lardman	rm_you: thanks for the testing	15:03
rm_you	i'm back on my old sleep schedule now... and I worked SO hard to wake up at a normal hour :P	15:03
rm_you	lol np	15:03
rm_you	i want it working prolly more than you do :P	15:03
wnd	udhcpc doesn't depend on dbus so I'd say no, at least not on maemo	15:03
mattimo	shit	15:03
lardman	rm_you: I can't do anything for another week & 1/2 at least	15:03
rm_you	mattimo: what do you need to do?	15:03
rm_you	lardman: :(	15:03
lardman	rm_you: am away, sorry	15:04
mattimo	I am trying to port the networkmanager used on most desktop systems to the maemo	15:04
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rm_you	lardman: maybe I will hack at mplayer, see if theres anything i can do on that side	15:04
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rm_you	lardman: compiling mplayer used to be my hobby :P	15:04
rm_you	before maemo	15:04
lardman	rm_you: I'll try to post the benchmark to the list though so people can have a think about it	15:04
rm_you	mattimo: ah :/	15:04
mattimo	and the networkmanader depends on dhcdbd	15:04
rm_you	mattimo: you could maybe try porting a different dhcp client	15:04
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mattimo	what is a dbus interface for the dhcpd from isc	15:04
rm_you	but that could get very messy very quickly	15:04
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rm_you	and might not be what people want	15:05
mattimo	rm_you: I know	15:05
rm_you	yeah :/	15:05
mattimo	is not what people want	15:05
rm_you	suck.	15:05
lopz	hola	15:05
rm_you	well, gl.	15:05
mattimo	thanks	15:05
* rm_you sleeps		15:05
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Makegho	hmh, does mysql-python fail if it's given an empty string as a parameter to execute?	15:08
Makegho	whops, wrong channel	15:08
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X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: It seems you will get your plugin working tomorrow afternoon ;)	15:27
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boolean	morning	15:33
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lcuk_work	lardman, thats the quickest lunch on record	15:40
lcuk_work	8 minutes, you will give yoursel indigestion :P	15:40
lardman	lcuk_work: yeah, I couldn't be bothered to walk home	15:40
lcuk_work	oh cripes yer, still no tyre?	15:41
lcuk_work	or do you normally walk	15:41
lardman	I've got a new tyre (£100) and bought a spare wheel too (~£40 second hand)	15:41
lardman	I try to walk when it's sunny	15:42
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lardman	and it was this morning, cold now though, so I've no desire to go out in it	15:42
lardman	;)	15:42
lcuk_work	heh, if i tried that it would take me all day	15:42
johnx	lcuk_work, eating lunch?	15:43
lcuk_work	walking, it would be a 20mile roundtrip	15:43
aquatix	hm, /me works 65km from home	15:43
aquatix	that's... to far to walk ;)	15:43
* lardman consults a map		15:43
* johnx only knows how long the train takes		15:44
aquatix	60 minutes by car :/	15:44
aquatix	maybe 55	15:44
lcuk_work	google earth has a great point to point plotting thing, before i had gps i would use it to see where i had been	15:44
lcuk_work	aquarius-, get a faster car	15:44
lcuk_work	damn	15:44
aquatix	lcuk_work: i should get a faster road	15:45
lcuk_work	aquatix even	15:45
aquatix	my car is fast enough	15:45
aquatix	but there's no highway in between	15:45
lardman	0.8 miles	15:45
lcuk_work	obviously not :P	15:45
lcuk_work	get a delorian from the future and fly	15:45
lcuk_work	or a personal helicopter	15:45
* lardman apparently walks at 4mph uphill		15:46
aquatix	lcuk_work: even google agrees - http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&saddr=Musket,+1967+Heemskerk,+Heemskerk+(North+Holland),+Netherlands&daddr=Den+Helder+(North+Holland),+Netherlands&sll=52.493292,4.691448&sspn=0.009642,0.018003&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=10	15:46
* lcuk_work thinks about nicking his dads microlite		15:46
aquatix	lcuk_work: hm, helicopter	15:46
aquatix	that'd be interesting	15:46
lcuk_work	google might agree, but my eyes dont	15:46
lcuk_work	lardman, uphill both ways?	15:46
aquatix	?	15:46
lardman	well it takes 12min up and 10min down	15:47
lcuk_work	big links blind	15:47
johnx	20km by train but it takes 43 minutes (more at night)	15:47
lcuk_work	get a skateboard	15:47
aquatix	lcuk_work: yeah, sorry for the huge uri :/	15:47
lardman	lcuk_work: 12min up, 1min down, 4hours in casualty ;)	15:47
lcuk_work	takes me about 15mins one way, round the ring road	15:47
lcuk_work	lolol	15:47
lcuk_work	is the hospital down past work by any chance?	15:48
lardman	takes me about 10min in the car what with getting it out of the Garage then walking from the far side of the car park after I park	15:48
lardman	nah, hospital is on the other side of town, so no savings there either ;)	15:48
lcuk_work	i get told ill have a closer parking space if i turn in earlier	15:48
lardman	s/Garage/garage - nothing special here	15:49
lcuk_work	lol @ llardman secret cave	15:49
lcuk_work	omg, you have turned welsh	15:49
lardman	yeah, can't use the afterburners in town either!	15:50
* aquatix would like to have some foreburners		15:50
aquatix	stupid people that drive too slowly	15:50
crashanddie	Lardman and Ewan: Fightings the bugs for justice !	15:50
* lcuk_work wouldnt like burners near his after or fore		15:50
lardman	cowcatchers s/cow/slow vehicles ?	15:50
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lardman	I see I am officially a layman in railroad terms :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_(locomotive)	15:51
lcuk_work	heh - i nearly fell for that: dont let xchat auto select the url, it cuts off the (...) at the end	15:53
lcuk_work	mgedmin posted a link explaining what a bob session was and it went to article about bbc birds of a feather sitcom	15:53
lcuk_work	im sat there wondering why hes gonna be talkin about essex girls	15:53
lardman	lol	15:53
mgedmin	s/bob/bof/	15:53
lcuk_work	:P good point	15:53
lcuk_work	hi mgedmin \o	15:54
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lardman	has anyone else tried the camera_example code?	15:56
lcuk_work	in python yes	15:56
lardman	it seems to run a lot slower than the other camera enabled apps	15:56
lcuk_work	the gstreamer stack was a bit hairy at the time	15:56
lcuk_work	no, lower the resolution	15:56
mgedmin	hi	15:56
lardman	hi mgedmin	15:56
lardman	lcuk_work: ah, so the others run at lower res do they?	15:57
lcuk_work	more than likely :)	15:57
lcuk_work	best results come from lower res AND lower framerate: lower framerate allows more signal to noise	15:57
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lcuk_work	there is also a limit to resolution where if you go above it, all the X stuff REALLY slows down disproportionally to expected	15:58
lardman	lcuk_work: hmm	15:58
lardman	Does the framerate really affect the camera integration time?	15:58
lcuk_work	if i had my 810 with me id post the tweaked and twiddled code	15:58
lcuk_work	effects how long the virtual shutter stays open	15:59
lcuk_work	i went from dark mostly grainy images to almost valid ones (at its lowest 10/15 fps)	15:59
crashanddie	aaaaaah	15:59
crashanddie	My own little part of paradise: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=argel%C3%A8s+sur+mer&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=29.992289,76.992187&ie=UTF8&ll=42.506998,3.005871&spn=0.00085,0.00235&t=h&z=19	15:59
lardman	lcuk_work: ok, I'll have a fiddle with it	15:59
lardman	crashanddie: no way I'm typing that beast in by hand!	16:00
crashanddie	lardman, I'll tinyurl it for ya	16:00
lcuk_work	use the python one, its quicker to play. you will find if you try nonstandard resollutionsor framerates it will just lock and not give errors	16:00
lardman	lcuk_work: I want to do barcode recognition, so will stick with C I think	16:00
crashanddie	lardman, http://tinyurl.com/58y4kc	16:00
lardman	I've nearly converted my MATLAB code to C anwyay	16:00
lardman	crashanddie: thanks	16:01
lcuk_work	lardman, im thinking just for testing the camera caps - at least then you will have POC to know it works	16:01
lardman	lcuk_work: yeah, perhaps	16:01
lcuk_work	but if you get it working nicely in a little self contained module i would like to try that: i got image loading working last night from jpeg, i would like to scroll real live video	16:01
lardman	crashanddie: you live in a ravine?	16:02
crashanddie	lardman, nope, that's where I'm going to spend the day tomorrow :)	16:02
lardman	crashanddie: I hope you back in rather going head first ;)	16:02
crashanddie	Taking a day off coding and work, jumping in very cool water, that's coming out of the frigging mountain :)	16:03
lcuk_work	lardman, i never attempted the gstreamer stuff in c because i didnt know enough about the api to boil it down, but i know the camera gives raw images as yuv :) which is prefect for me	16:04
lcuk_work	perfect as well	16:04
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* lcuk_work must really get image scaling working		16:04
lardman	lcuk_work: I think the pipeline does an RGB conversion, but then I might be able to eliminate that as I only need B&W	16:04
lcuk_work	yer you would be better getting it before its done RGB	16:05
lcuk_work	the more time you save then the higher resolution you will be able to get	16:05
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lardman	res isn't a big issue for a full-screen barcode	16:05
lardman	but yes	16:05
lcuk_work	when you were talking the other day i did some quick examinations and could get barcodes in focus quite easily and quickly	16:05
lardman	although the lower the resolution the less data I need to manipulate :)	16:06
crashanddie	you probably don't need the full res	16:06
lardman	with N810?	16:06
crashanddie	can the camera scan in a lower res ?	16:06
lcuk_work	still - if its YUV initially, why convert to rgb to then convert back to Y	16:06
lcuk_work	yes	16:06
crashanddie	I don't know if contrast will be good enough, but you might want to lower the res to speed up analysis	16:07
crashanddie	(btw, camera won't work on my n810 anymore... it yells "can't open camera" and then quits)	16:07
lcuk_work	in which application?	16:07
crashanddie	camera	16:08
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lcuk_work	you've been screwing with your gstreamer stuff though	16:08
crashanddie	aye	16:08
crashanddie	btw	16:08
crashanddie	I've completely broken my bluetooth card in my laptop, so it seems xD	16:09
lcuk_work	the bluetooth module from mine has been physically ripped off the motherboard :)	16:09
crashanddie	ha	16:09
crashanddie	I've been messing with the source code of bluez, in order to try to get more information about why the mouse didn't work	16:10
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lcuk_work	god knows why someone would do that, but i opened the flap underneath and theres a trailing wire and the connector is ripped off and the module is missing	16:10
crashanddie	tried a few things, didn't really work, tried reverting back to the ubuntu provided packages	16:10
crashanddie	devices doesn't show up anymore	16:10
crashanddie	doesn't work in Windows either xD	16:10
lcuk_work	put a livecd in and see what happens. it could all be you messing	16:10
crashanddie	I did	16:10
crashanddie	ubuntu 7.10 spots there's a bluetooth something	16:11
crashanddie	but can't lock on the device (hcitool dev doesn't show anything anymore)	16:11
crashanddie	I don't care though, didn't use it a lot	16:11
crashanddie	gave the mouse to my mom, she'll make better use of it anyhow	16:11
lcuk_work	apart from for your mouse	16:11
crashanddie	I'm going to open up the MX 1000 and make it work again	16:12
lcuk_work	i hope you have a vets license	16:12
crashanddie	nope	16:12
crashanddie	but I have a soldering iron and an electronics degree :P	16:12
lcuk_work	tsk tsk, surgery on little animals is cruel	16:12
crashanddie	well	16:13
crashanddie	it's been drowned in petrol	16:13
crashanddie	can't get much worse than that	16:13
lcuk_work	it could, but you havent got windows vista so i wont mention that	16:13
crashanddie	(I though my laptop didn't have any symptoms from that episode, the petrol lamp falling on the desktop... Figures my DVD drive is dead)	16:13
lcuk_work	anyway, must dash, got stuff to do	16:13
crashanddie	yeah, same here	16:14
crashanddie	ttyl	16:14
lcuk_work	back later	16:14
lcuk_work	cya lardman	16:14
lardman	bye lcuk_work	16:14
lardman	I could do with a scheduler so I can see which talks are on at which times at a conference, any thoughts?	16:17
lardman	for about 4 parallel sessions	16:17
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crashanddie	WOOOOOT	16:27
crashanddie	Repaired my MX 1000 :D	16:27
johnx	what was wrong with it?	16:28
crashanddie	short circuit	16:28
crashanddie	draining battery	16:28
crashanddie	kept scrolling up	16:29
crashanddie	damnit	16:29
crashanddie	I paid 50euro for a new mouse I'm not using :/	16:29
johnx	That's nothing. I once paid 80yen for coffee that wasn't very good :/	16:30
glass	you still used the coffee tho, no?	16:30
johnx	well, yeah, but only cause I couldn't put it on ebay	16:30
darkterror46	:)	16:31
ShadowJK	80 sounds kinda cheap	16:31
darkterror46	well guess that taking of the noexecute in fstab didn't help	16:31
crashanddie	80yen is like less than half a euro	16:31
crashanddie	no ?	16:31
crashanddie	heh	16:32
crashanddie		16:32
crashanddie	1 Euro = 165.471365 Japanese yen	16:32
johnx	:)	16:32
johnx	and yeah, it was really cheap coffee	16:32
darkterror46	hehe	16:32
johnx	most of the stuff at ~120Y is actually pretty good (to my inexact taste)	16:32
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darkterror46	XD	16:33
lcuk_work	johnx, you have spoilt your taste buds, you must pay at least 9000	16:33
johnx	but yeah, Pokka coffee. even the logo screams cheap.	16:33
crashanddie	I'm pretty sure they have recycled coffee there	16:33
crashanddie	"extra light"	16:33
lcuk_work	downstream from starbucks even	16:33
lcuk_work	literally..	16:34
darkterror46	hihihi	16:34
derf	lardman: Use a piece of paper?	16:34
lardman	speaking about coffee, that ip -over-dns sounds cool	16:34
crashanddie	that's old	16:34
lardman	derf: yeah, I've got that atm, but it's 23 pieces of 2-sided paper	16:34
* darkterror46 go get a really tasty short black		16:34
lcuk_work	lardman, derf is right: the paper they had for linuxtag schedule was great (of you can wait and see what scrolly goodness i come back with soon ;)	16:35
crashanddie	lardman, nstx still works pretty good, but the speeds are godawful	16:35
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lardman	I don't have a server though	16:35
johnx	lcuk_work, starbucks is pretty bleh. I'll take Tully's any day...(They're nicer there too)	16:35
lardman	I'll just reply on the conference having free wifi somewhere	16:35
lardman	s/reply/rely	16:36
lcuk_work	print to pdf and take that with you	16:36
crashanddie	lardman, well, from my tests, I managed about 3KB/s using NSTX	16:36
lardman	lcuk_work: paper's better than pdf though imo	16:37
lardman	crashanddie: would do to download email headers while drinking a coffee	16:37
lcuk_work	depends on the device, but yer i agree on the whole	16:37
lardman	crashanddie: I'll have to look into it later in the summer	16:37
crashanddie	lardman, if you need help	16:37
lcuk_work	is it a masssssssive conference with lots of tracks?	16:37
lardman	4 tracks 5 days long	16:37
lcuk_work	is it worth just getting the sched into notes and just use almost unformatted text?	16:38
lcuk_work	hey :D you could get 1 n8x0 for each track	16:39
lardman	:)	16:39
overflok	Hi guys	16:39
lcuk_work	lay them side by side	16:39
lardman	would be a bit od a pita entering all the paper titles tbh, I may just stick with paper anyway	16:40
lcuk_work	hi there overflo	16:40
lcuk_work	uh huh, sometimes a non technical solution works	16:40
lcuk_work	right, back to it agian, i think i might shut off vnc again, i actually got some work done yesterday ;)	16:42
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darkterror46	:)	16:54
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Dekaritae	So, the Presence icon is gone. I have two accounts set up	17:09
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Dekaritae	Also, I cannot install Canola2, my device is mising the flash-and-reboot (=3) package and I cannot find it	17:10
johnx	Dekaritae, for the second problem, try to run apt-get -f install	17:12
johnx	for the first problem, maybe you disabled the presense icon. I thought there was a way to do that	17:12
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Dekaritae	I think the problem is related to there being no Presence check item under Panels -> Status bar	17:13
summatusmentis	does anyone have suggestions on getting better gps?	17:16
summatusmentis	even with agps, it takes upwards of 10 miutes	17:16
summatusmentis	minutes*	17:16
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melmoth	summatusmentis: using a 3rd party bluetooth gps ?	17:23
melmoth	i have been told they are some cheap ones	17:23
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summatusmentis	melmoth: :-/ that sort of defeats the purpose of having the gps internally doesn't it?	17:25
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MangoFusion	what you need to do	17:26
MangoFusion	is form a local internet tablet users group	17:26
MangoFusion	so whenever you need a gps lock	17:26
MangoFusion	and you get bored waiting	17:26
johnx	waiting 10 minutes for a lock sort of defeats the usefulness of GPS in a lot of situations	17:26
MangoFusion	just rant with them	17:26
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MangoFusion	and time will fly by	17:26
* ShadowJK tries to get a lock indoors		17:26
ShadowJK	3 minutes and counting :-)	17:26
MangoFusion	went to rome the other week. only got a lock once on my n95	17:28
MangoFusion	after about half an hour	17:28
ShadowJK	since you were roaming you probably didn't have data and then didn't have a-gps...	17:28
summatusmentis	johnx: exactly	17:28
* johnx is going to get the most killer bt gps he can find		17:29
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summatusmentis	johnx: I don't wanna have to carry around a dongle(thing)	17:29
johnx	tape it to your body?	17:30
ShadowJK	I have a insmat SirfIII bluetooth gps dongle too, it's superfast and gets a lock in like half a minute as long as you don't touch it with your hand or move it	17:30
johnx	they're really small	17:30
ShadowJK	6 minutes and N810 doesn't seem to have even managed to download almanac	17:30
mgedmin	indoors?	17:31
mgedmin	no surprise	17:31
ShadowJK	:)	17:31
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mgedmin	you might get something sufficiently fix-like in an hour or two	17:31
ShadowJK	but it sees two birds, one at strength 35 and other at 32 according to maemo-mapper	17:31
bmr	yeah, that sounds about right for the n810 internal :)	17:31
ShadowJK	tbh, the sirfIII isn't getting anythign either	17:32
* johnx feels no buyer's remorse over being an N800 early adopter		17:32
lcuk_work	lardman\|gone, jaffa, and others re: hardware/3d/iva/audio etc quim has asked for a page/info to give to his nokia colleagues. ill get a draft together later and we shall hammer out some more bits if you are around	17:33
lcuk_work	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=203578&postcount=76	17:33
lcuk_work	(unless someone else can do a 1st draft before i get back)	17:33
mgedmin	once I opened maemo mapper, saved an existing track, and then saw that it got a fix almost as soon as the save was complete	17:36
mgedmin	that was under 30 seconds	17:36
mgedmin	I was very surprised	17:36
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mgedmin	I had last used the gps a day before	17:36
mgedmin	and a few km from where I was then	17:36
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fysa	anyone used Internet Connection Sharing from a MacBook to an IT via AirPort?	17:46
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atul	Hi I return bc; bc = gpscwp but while collecting in caller it is \xe8gps\xe8c\xe8swp like this why so ? why extra character like \xe8 coming every time	17:48
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atul	Have a look onto code base http://codepad.org/vFMofAzi	17:53
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Khertan_TheReal	Hi	17:54
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Khertan_TheReal	Someone can explain me what can wake this error -> sh: bad signal name 's'	17:56
Khertan_TheReal	?	17:56
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Khertan_TheReal	it s when i try to build a package with dpgk-buildpackage on my n810	17:56
qwerty12	Post the full log	17:57
Khertan_TheReal	hum :)	17:58
Khertan_TheReal	right ... i ll rewrite it :)	17:58
Khertan_TheReal	here	17:58
qwerty12	It's easier because I can see which part is failing :)	17:58
melmoth	crappy shell ?	17:58
qwerty12	busybox = crappy shell :P	17:59
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pyhimys	it tries to kill something	17:59
pyhimys	"kill -s"	17:59
Khertan_TheReal	i get /usr/bin/fakeroot: line 70: debian/rules: Permission denied sh: bad signal name 's'	17:59
qwerty12	sounds like the busybox kill sucks. I'd try and extract the proper one from procps	18:00
qwerty12	http://i34.tinypic.com/nyyae1.png - From nokia's default busybox config, me doesn't like :(	18:01
RST38h	KILL KILL	18:04
RST38h	now, who you wanted to kill?	18:04
qwerty12	Begins with R and ends with h	18:04
* RST38h does /names		18:04
RST38h	btw, if anyone has an example of using xv to get omap yuv buffer, I would appreciate it ;)	18:06
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qwerty12	Hmm, which is more preferred, -msoft-float or -mhard_float?	18:08
RST38h	soft	18:08
qwerty12	Thank you	18:08
RST38h	there should be two options though	18:09
RST38h	lemme check	18:09
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RST38h	http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2008/05/17/gcc-options-and-floating-point/	18:11
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RST38h	qwerty: here you go	18:11
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qwerty12	Cool, thank you, reading	18:12
RST38h	it is somehow not obvious, dunno why	18:12
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smackpotato	w32codecs where.	18:15
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RST38h	localhost.	18:16
RST38h	German spam. Do they really spam in German now?	18:17
johnx	RST38h, they spam in every language known to man. I get spam in Chinese, Spanish, and 1337 speak	18:18
johnx	I really love the fake news ones	18:19
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MangoFusion	johnx: what, like "Nokia announces new N900 internet tablet! Click here to pre-order!" ?	18:20
RST38h	johnx: sure sign of the world ending. yes.	18:20
smackpotato	i was at a hyudi site and punched in my postal code for my winter adress, afrench nebourhood. google started serving me ads in french	18:21
RST38h	"Extend your penises (penii?) with an internet tablet from nokia"	18:21
johnx	MangoFusion, nah, like "pope assassinated" and " Queen Elizabeth abducted in Tibet" classic	18:21
johnx	smackpotato, automatic ad localization is often hilariously bad	18:22
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MangoFusion	ah yes, got one here	18:22
qwerty12	RST38h: is that the reason for buying yours? :P	18:22
MangoFusion	"Hillary suffers horror car crash"	18:22
johnx	oh no! here horror-car crashed?	18:22
MangoFusion	"Warred Buffett taken to hospital by private jet"	18:22
RST38h	qwerty: definitely - two of mine were somewhat shorter than the rest and needed extension	18:23
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qwerty12	lol	18:24
RST38h	Hillary, Obama, and McCain all suffer horror car crash"	18:24
johnx	man, everyone has a horror-car but me :/	18:24
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RST38h	I am still getting equipment-defiling arab cancer.	18:25
RST38h	apparently, it hasnt defiled that nigerian cyber cafe yet	18:26
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ShadowJK	"compelling page", what does that page say?	18:28
RST38h	also getting lots of russian mail-order ladies - looks like spammers aint aware I can get those from retail	18:28
smackpotato	has anyone got sound from a bloomberg video on mplayer. is there codecs i should be installing	18:28
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lcuk_work	RST38h, what are you looking for?	18:29
* lcuk_work 's batsignal was flashing		18:29
johnx	smackpotato, run it from the command line and see what codec it tries to use	18:30
RST38h	lcuk: a code sample that shows how to init xv , get scr buffer, and show it	18:30
lcuk_work	liqbase	18:30
* qwerty12 licks base. now what?		18:30
RST38h	yes but you did not publish the src yet	18:30
lcuk_work	its in the garage	18:30
qwerty12	It's in the svn	18:30
RST38h	ah	18:31
mk8	Hi to all .... since 1 week I have problem to see video on my N810 device. In the multimedia viewer the video is with wrong colour, size while the audio is ok. If I open the menu the video became ok. Any suggestion?	18:31
qwerty12	lcuk_work: just out of question, did you make any improvements in svn compared to your last binary test release?	18:31
mk8	I not know which package I update 'cause the previous week worked fine	18:31
lcuk_work	fixed a couple of bugs, changed a few little things and started to re-put in all the test modules i took out for cleaning up.	18:32
lcuk_work	i hated stopping to sort out svn though	18:33
smackpotato	can i past it here	18:33
qwerty12	skeen, may compile a copy later :)	18:33
smackpotato	Trying to force audio codec driver family dspmp3...	18:33
smackpotato	Trying to force audio codec driver family libmad...	18:33
smackpotato	Requested audio codec family [wma9spdmo] (afm=dmo) not available.	18:33
smackpotato	Enable it at compilation.	18:33
smackpotato	Requested audio codec family [wma9spdshow] (afm=dshow) not available.	18:33
smackpotato	Enable it at compilation.	18:33
smackpotato	Cannot find codec for audio format 0xA.	18:33
qwerty12	smackpotato: www.pastebin.com	18:33
smackpotato	oops	18:33
ShadowJK	hm	18:33
qwerty12	or www.slexy.org (before crashanddie gets a MAC-10 on me :P)	18:33
ShadowJK	Yeah I don't think wma3/9 is supported	18:34
qwerty12	You wouldn't be able to use w32codecs anyway on a tablet.	18:34
johnx	mk8, did you mess with seeing boot messages? did you flash a different kernel?	18:34
lcuk_work	qwerty12, does crashanddie have shares in slexy?	18:34
qwerty12	lcuk_work: no idea, all I know is that he knows the owner :P	18:35
RST38h	lcuk: going to get the src tonight, when I get to real internet	18:35
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qwerty12	RST38h: if you want, I can tar.bz2 you a copy?	18:35
lcuk_work	RST38h, no prob what you aiming for?	18:35
mk8	johnx: I not see any interesting message using dmesg	18:37
qwerty12	mk8: did you install android?	18:37
johnx	mk8, what I mean is: Did you try to make the device show boot messages at startup? Did you flash a kernel?	18:38
mk8	qwerty12: yes	18:38
qwerty12	Use my kernel v2 then.	18:38
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mk8	johnx: I use ssh connection to connect my laptop to the device and use dmesg to see the kernel message.	18:39
johnx	ok, enabling boot messages can cause the same problem :)	18:40
* qwerty12 really needs to fix the N800 android patch >.<		18:41
mk8	qwerty12: ... the installation of android change the maemo kernel? So I suppose that the only choiche is reflash the device right?	18:41
RST38h	qwerty: phone. gprs. but will be able to get it tonight so thankd :)	18:41
mk8	johnx: I not enabled anything .... but I not check it before try to install android on it	18:41
qwerty12	mk8: No no, just flash this http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21709 :)	18:42
RST38h	lcuk: if you check my site there is something called emulib	18:42
qwerty12	RST38h: Ah :/	18:42
RST38h	lcuk: it is kinda like thin sys friendly sdl	18:42
lcuk_work	cool, but you are in for an uphill slog if ts geared for rgb	18:43
mk8	qwerty12: I have N810 not N800	18:43
qwerty12	I have seperate kernels for both	18:43
RST38h	I am aiming to add yuv buffer support to emulib maemo version so that all emulators run faster	18:43
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RST38h	lcuk: I do not care what the color space is - using palettes anyway	18:44
lcuk_work	its not just for maemo though :) theres lots of devices with nice quick yuv but slow general graphics ;)	18:44
lcuk_work	palettes will leave you needing to write 3 seperate locations per pixel	18:44
RST38h	lcuk: then I will also add it to unix version	18:44
RST38h	lcuk: why?	18:44
RST38h	yuv mode is bitplane based?	18:44
lcuk_work	yuv is full 24bit color range with lower physical pixel density for chroma channels	18:45
lcuk_work	yes	18:45
lcuk_work	3 planes	18:45
RST38h	oh shit	18:45
lcuk_work	hence RGB is uphill..	18:45
lcuk_work	hence me originally saying greyscale x11 would be doable	18:45
RST38h	ok. is there a chunky mode in which I can use direct screen buffer, rgb or yuv?	18:45
lcuk_work	without hardware conversion	18:45
lcuk_work	sdl uses mmaped region using 16bit rgb	18:46
RST38h	yuv by itself is ok but planar buffers suck	18:46
lcuk_work	planar rocks :)	18:46
RST38h	aaaaaargh..they are taking me away!!!	18:47
lcuk_work	1256grey + 2256 color	18:47
RST38h	3 reads per pixel for hw though	18:47
lcuk_work	3 writes per pixel to write it	18:47
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lcuk_work	if you used the native epson YUV mode it would be even worse... thats interleaved in a really strange way	18:48
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crashanddie	lcuk_work, I paid for the domain name	18:48
crashanddie	qwerty12, and I don't have a MAC-10	18:48
qwerty12	:P	18:48
lcuk_work	im aiming to get a flat 16/24bit buffer inside the omap2420 SARAM and use the IVA to convert that directly from RGB to correct YUV data in main memory	18:49
lcuk_work	flat 16/24bit RGB	18:49
lcuk_work	ahhh crashanddie so you do have shares in it	18:49
crashanddie	lcuk_work, it's non-profit for all I know, atm	18:50
crashanddie	so no, I don't have shares in it	18:50
crashanddie	I will when he starts making some money out of it	18:50
lcuk_work	you do: 50% of 0	18:50
lcuk_work	or whatever your share is ;)	18:50
lcuk_work	anyway, back afterwards.	18:51
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* qwerty12 can't believe that this was filed : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/56125 :/		19:26
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johnx	I just don't understand how much attention it got O_o	19:28
Stskeeps	bored geeks?	19:28
Stskeeps	:P	19:28
johnx	yeah, I guess, but I thought the guy would get shot down pretty quick	19:29
Stskeeps	cows are a fetish of many geeks	19:29
Stskeeps	and when it's ascii cows..	19:29
Stskeeps	:P	19:29
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Khertan_n810	Hi again !	19:37
johnx	hello	19:37
Khertan_n810	qwerty12 are u here ?	19:38
Khertan_n810	hi johnx	19:38
qwerty12	Khertan_n810: sure	19:38
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jott	haha @ubuntu bug	19:38
jott	comments are great too ;) "In theory, cows can not speak either. Which is probably why they're so tasty."	19:38
Khertan_n810	u said tomorrow that u have successfully use dpkg-build package on n8x0	19:39
Khertan_n810	but i get some strange error	19:39
qwerty12	I've never said that.	19:39
johnx	qwerty12, you'll say it tomorrow :)	19:39
Khertan_n810	ah oups	19:40
qwerty12	Hehe johnx.	19:40
Khertan_n810	i mean yyesteterday	19:40
Khertan_n810	but maybe it someone else	19:40
Khertan_n810	don t remember	19:40
johnx	sorry Khertan_n810. I couldn't resist :)	19:40
Khertan_n810	normal	19:40
Khertan_n810	walking and writing at the same time is very easy	19:41
Khertan_n810	:)	19:41
qwerty12	If you are getting that sh bad signal message, I'd just extract kill from procps.	19:41
johnx	on a cell phone link?	19:41
jott	Khertan_n810: if you tell use the strange error we might be able to help you..	19:41
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lardman	johnx: lol	19:42
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lardman	@ cow	19:42
johnx	cow: lol @ lardman :P	19:43
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Khertan_n810	/usr/bin/fakeroot: line 70: debian/rules: Permission denied	19:44
jott	in fact i really like oldschool ascii art ;)	19:44
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jott	chmod +x debian/rules ?	19:44
Khertan_n810	nope	19:45
X-Fade	Did anybody receive the mail about the summit twice yet? :)	19:45
qwerty12	Khertan_n810: what's the first line of debian/rules?	19:45
Khertan_n810	it s already +x	19:45
Khertan_n810	#!/usr/bin/make -f	19:46
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lcuk	\o/ super rocket turbo boost power journey home	19:49
jott	X-Fade: i did not even get the first one :O	19:49
X-Fade	hehe, well they were sent out twice :(	19:50
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lcuk	jott, aint that because the flight from your house (which practically overlooks c-base) would take longer than just rolling out of bed and going downstairs?	19:50
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jott	lcuk: an helicopter to c-base would be very appreciated.	19:51
lcuk	ill bring my RC one if you like, but since I know you aint a midget i think you will have to go on a diet	19:52
lcuk	note: would an umpta-lumpa consider the nokia as a UMPC?	19:52
lcuk	-t	19:52
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Khertan_n810	what is strange is the bad signal 's'	19:54
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lcuk	Khertan_n810, i have dpkg-buildpackage on my 810: it works i think, but i had to clear out the clear script it uses _dh_clear i think	19:56
lcuk	i say it works: its found all the info, has built my package but is stuck at the "make install" bit, but thats because my makefile doesnt have an install section yet	19:56
Jaffa	Cor, zerojay's resurfaced on ITT	19:57
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mgedmin	waah, the maemo.org ssl certificate expired today	19:57
mgedmin	now firefox 3 is punishing me	19:57
Khertan_n810	do u mean dh_clean ?	19:58
lcuk	Khertan_n810, yes	19:58
Jaffa	mgedmin: X-Fade said they were working on it	19:58
lcuk	it fails because find on the n810 doesnt have the required params	19:58
* mgedmin prods X-Fade		19:58
lcuk	i can live with a few extra tmp files	19:58
johnx	the one thing to be careful of is to manually clean compiled binaries/objects and do a fresh build before release	19:59
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lcuk	jott, would it be wise then to call make clean instead of running the full thing, i just vaped it instead of checking and removing the specific bits	20:00
X-Fade	mgedmin: The maemo.org ssl certificate didn't expire. The wiki.m.o one did.	20:00
lcuk	or does it get cleaned before building anyway - i noticed it did do a full rebuild when i ran it	20:00
Khertan_n810	hum ...	20:01
Khertan_n810	this is not that	20:02
lardman	Is the General about, or off on hols now?	20:02
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qwerty12	lcuk: why not point dh_clean to use a gnu find?	20:02
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, PING	20:04
Khertan_n810	do u use fakeroot ?	20:04
lcuk	Khertan_n810, no, real root im on device.	20:04
Khertan_n810	hum maybe that	20:05
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lcuk	qwerty12, lack of knowledge was big and i just wanted to get past to sort the rest out.	20:09
t_s_o	hey lcuk, you think timeless found anything interesting?	20:09
jott	lcuk: but it should be just one line to change.. :O	20:10
jott	and you already found the line :)	20:10
lcuk	i know i did jott, ill put it back another time	20:12
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overflok1	Hi lcuk	20:13
lcuk	hi overflok1 :)	20:13
overflok1	Could I sen you some files	20:13
lcuk	through here or email?	20:14
overflok1	i don't know if this file can help you for IVA	20:14
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overflok1	Here	20:14
lcuk	nor do i.	20:14
lcuk	go for it, but i dunno if i can open any other ports	20:15
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* lcuk sets virusscan to paranoid, prepares the grenades and hides in a bunker		20:15
lcuk	where are you from overflok1	20:15
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overflok1	Italy	20:16
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overflok1	I'm overflo	20:16
overflok1	And you ?	20:17
lcuk	i know you are - you called in this afternoon as well, nice to see you	20:17
lcuk	im in england	20:17
lardman_	hi overflok1	20:17
overflok1	Hi	20:17
qwerty12	(lcuk's in the part where the accents are dodgy :P)	20:17
* lcuk slaps qwerty12 and send him to his room		20:18
* qwerty12 pulls out the knife		20:18
lcuk	OI!	20:19
lcuk	not amusing	20:19
qwerty12	Nah, only joking, /me don't carry a knife anyway :)	20:19
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qwerty12	'Tis London mentality.	20:19
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lardman_	lcuk: in the mail to you	20:20
qwerty12	Anyway, think I'd start on someone from the North? :P :). That's why I got involved with zontar that time when he said you sucked :P	20:20
lcuk	iva failed, i think the arm one will as well. overflok1 do you wanna mail them	20:20
lcuk	ie properly to liquid@gmail.com	20:21
overflok1	Ok	20:21
lcuk	brb	20:21
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lardman_	mmmm, bangers and mash :)	20:21
lardman_	How do I create a new page on the wiki?	20:22
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jott	wiki.maemo.org/Foo ?	20:23
lardman_	where's GeneralAntilles when you need him!? ;)	20:23
lardman_	oh, just type it in?	20:23
jott	should do it	20:23
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overflok1	Sent	20:23
lardman_	cool, easy as that, thanks	20:23
overflok1	Give me some feedback	20:24
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overflok1	i will play tennis	20:24
overflok1	See you later	20:24
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lardman_	overflok1: have fun	20:24
Khertan_n810	hum lcuk still same error with root	20:24
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qwerty12	Anyone built the gstreamer bad plugin set?	20:25
* qwerty12 would kill for xvid		20:25
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lardman_	https://wiki.maemo.org/Opening_drivers_justification_to_Nokia	20:26
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Khertan_n810	what is the benefit of the 'sponsorship program' for nmaemo summit ?	20:27
Khertan_n810	Does they pay for travel and hotel ?	20:27
lcuk_mashingspud	yes	20:27
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lcuk	simon :) excellent ill do similar as you suggest for the 5mbit information - i dont think this needs drivers, just documentation	20:28
lardman_	well you could stick it on the same page	20:28
lcuk	yes	20:28
Khertan_n810	hum could be interesting if i can have an holiday	20:28
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lardman_	also people, pleas feel free to add suggestions to that page	20:29
qwerty12	johnx: like your avatar :D	20:29
lardman_	it is a wiki so you can edit, but it would be easier for me if you just add comments	20:29
johnx	qwerty12, had it for a long time :D	20:29
johnx	I only just remembered to apply it	20:30
* qwerty12 didn't notice :)		20:30
lcuk	yes, people in the channel. this is a very important document. we aim to document clearly the hardware and resources we need to allow full functionality of our devices. http://wiki.maemo.org/Opening_drivers_justification_to_Nokia	20:30
Khertan_n810	is there a ftp gui port for maemo ?	20:30
qwerty12	maemoftp?	20:30
qwerty12	bye	20:30
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mgedmin	hm, I got two invitations to register for the maemo summit today	20:30
lcuk	i cant get on with https	20:30
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mgedmin	I've registered already	20:31
lcuk	mgedmin, it got sent twice	20:31
lcuk	dont worry	20:31
mgedmin	and somehow I'm sure I'll get another two :)	20:31
jott	lardman_: i just s/OpenGL/OpenGL ES/	20:31
lardman_	indeed	20:31
jott	otherwise it's a good start	20:32
lcuk	simon, should i send a mail to the dev list?	20:32
lardman_	might as well, also link to the ITT page where Quim asked where this was	20:32
jott	mgedmin: 18:45 < X-Fade> Did anybody receive the mail about the summit twice yet? :)	20:32
lcuk	the more eyes that look the better it will be	20:32
lardman_	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=203578&postcount=76	20:32
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* lardman_ goes for a quick bit of Rainbox Six Vegas therapy, bbiab		20:34
jott	another question is the phrasing "Opening drivers".. maybe "deliver" or "supply" or something along the line would be more appropiate	20:34
jott	(so we do not imply in first instance that we want the source but only in second ;)	20:34
lardman_	yeah, bit stuck with that now though as it's the page url	20:35
lcuk	agreed jott, documentation and implementation details are more important than source	20:35
jott	it can be renamed ;)	20:35
jott	(and redirected) though i am not a wiki guru to know offhand how to..	20:35
lardman_	perhaps just to "drivers_justification" then	20:35
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lcuk	lardman_, :) go shoot some stuff	20:36
jott	i wonder how alt software fits in the whole puzzle ..	20:36
lardman_	https://wiki.maemo.org/Drivers_justification	20:36
lardman_	done	20:36
Khertan_n810	hum maemoftp isn t really usefull can t change folder	20:37
Khertan_n810	:(	20:37
lardman_	craftily hidden in the "Move" tab ;)	20:37
Khertan_n810	error : can't change folder	20:37
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lcuk	jott,	20:41
fnordianslip	hiya. is there a good cure for the dangling symlinks quirk with apt-get in diablo? or even a known cause?	20:41
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penguinbait	<fnordianslip> take a look at this http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21613	20:54
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penguinbait	you can also get GNU find from penguinbait.com/find.gz	20:57
Atarii	lcuk how did you say to fix "make: *** /lib/modules/2.6.16.27-omap1/build: No such file or directory, Stop." ?	20:57
penguinbait	and do this find / -follow -type l	20:57
lcuk	when?	20:58
Atarii	a while ago, think you said to symlink it to somewhere	20:58
lcuk	you sure it was me - i dont know the first thing about symlinks	20:58
Atarii	oh man, lol maybe not :p	20:59
lcuk	last time i tried i almost blew my device up (i tries to symlink /dev to /media/mmc1	20:59
Atarii	ha	20:59
lcuk	penguinbait, are you comin to the summit?	20:59
penguinbait	nope	20:59
penguinbait	I really cant afford it even if the travle and hotel are paid	21:00
fnordianslip	penguinbait: thanks. I've already tried the tweak posted by reiv, but it seems to make no difference.	21:00
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jott	Atarii: "build" is usually a link to the kernel headers (or sources)	21:00
lcuk	penguinbait, :( shame	21:01
penguinbait	maybe Maemo Summit 2009, Las Vegas? Hawaii?	21:01
lcuk	jott: https://wiki.maemo.org/Drivers_justification	21:01
penguinbait	:)	21:01
lcuk	maemo summit 2009: martian winds	21:02
penguinbait	Honestly Berlin is not on my list of places I want to visit, not to offend anyone	21:02
lcuk	i was underwhelmed about going before linuxtag, but i had the most amazing time: Berlin really surprised me. and the location is totally unimportant anyway - its the company you see	21:03
lcuk	i think linuxtag occured on the best days of this year so far: hot and sunny the whole time. it was amazing	21:03
Atarii	jott: aha, ill try the headers instead, thanks	21:03
jott	i wonder if it is good to ask for so much at once..	21:04
jott	penguinbait: i feel offendend :P	21:04
penguinbait	The whole spending a day flying to spend 2 days in Germany, then another day flying back,, Its just not that enticing to me. Its also kind of short notice	21:05
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lpotter	i could go for hawaii	21:05
lcuk	penguinbait, you can stay for 5 days	21:05
penguinbait	Sorry jott, I dont want to go to New York or LA either :)	21:05
lcuk	can we at least get a life sized cardboard cutout of these people and maybe use a projector to render a skype call onto the head?	21:06
penguinbait	hehe	21:07
jott	lcuk: have you actually tried to investigate accessing the sram?	21:07
lcuk	where is it... ?	21:07
lcuk	this is what documentation is all about	21:08
jott	lcuk: drivers/video/omap/dispc.c atleast reads "#define OMAP2_SRAM_START 0x40200000"	21:08
lcuk	well thats a start :D ill try there	21:08
summatusmentis	johnx: was it you who was excited about Android?	21:08
johnx	summatusmentis, more excited about it on a phone, but yes	21:08
lcuk	i thought all that was invalid though jott	21:08
summatusmentis	johnx: have you seen http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080715-googles-android-platform-not-so-open-after-all.html ?	21:09
lcuk	as in, not used for our device	21:09
johnx	summatusmentis, not yet	21:09
* johnx reads		21:09
Khertan_n810	does we can use dpkg-buildpackage on it ?	21:10
jott	lcuk: i just stumbled upon this.. but so to say, the kernel source seems to reveal atleast some of the stuff ...:)	21:10
johnx	summatusmentis, I'll read it in depth later, but it sounds like the same thing as Nokia pretty much anyways	21:10
Khertan_n810	if no, it doesn t interest me	21:10
johnx	things will either get more open after launch or I won't buy an android phone, simple as that :)	21:10
summatusmentis	well, I'm not sure how Nokia works, but it's disappointing nonetheless	21:10
lcuk	jott, im putting that in the discussion page, until its confirmed ill leave it there	21:10
jott	otoh i wonder if it is good to propose a list of things and not just target one specific thing (like only powervr)	21:10
lcuk	im testing now by the way	21:11
johnx	summatusmentis, well, they had to give the SDK to skype before they gave it to users, otherwise there wouldn't always be a version of skype ready to launch with new firmware	21:11
summatusmentis	and how many users use skype? :)	21:12
johnx	that's not the point :P	21:12
summatusmentis	lol, I guess it's fair. I was hoping Google would be more open though, you know?	21:12
johnx	the same is true with gizmo and wayfinder maps	21:12
johnx	google isn't really that open though	21:13
johnx	they don't release source to their desktop apps either	21:13
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johnx	if they live up to their claims and put the whole thing under the Apache license after launch, then it's good enough for me. If not, I'll have to decide whether I want a different phone...	21:14
Cobi	I seem to have managed to corrupt maemo's email cache (or maybe an email config file) by hard resetting it. What do I need to do to reset the email app? (Right now it just segfaults)	21:14
summatusmentis	johnx: I know, but they should :-/ I want OpenMoko to succeed, and then it can be put on better hardware	21:15
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johnx	summatusmentis, well, no point in getting worked up now. There's nothing we can do to google except vote with our wallets (and later with development)	21:16
summatusmentis	johnx: no, I agree, still disappointing	21:17
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johnx	yeah. The article acts like it doesn't happen all the time though	21:17
johnx	if you watch Nokia, even Canola gets the short end of the stick compared to skype/gizmo/wayfinder	21:18
summatusmentis	canola is a much better app than all of those :)	21:20
rm_you	ahh	21:20
rm_you	awake again :)	21:21
* johnx attempts to build modest for zaurus		21:21
johnx	rm_you, headed to sleep myself in a couple minutes	21:21
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lpotter	zaurus hey	21:21
johnx	yeah, we'll see how it goes	21:21
johnx	right now, not so well	21:22
lpotter	all my zaurus are gathering dust ;(	21:22
johnx	my 5500 is gathering dust, but I think I'll get it working soon as a dictionary/ebook reader/mp3 player	21:22
johnx	maybe get a new battery for it if it works out well	21:22
summatusmentis	mine are both sitting on my dresser	21:23
fnordianslip	i'm trying to make a debug build of wlancond so i find out why it segfaults with my modified kernel, but getting bogged down building it due to difficulties with its dependency on cx3110x-module-src. does anyone have any tips for building wlancond in scratchbox?	21:23
johnx	fnordianslip, get the cx3110x source. It's open	21:24
fatal-	Cobi: find the folder where it stores it's stuff and delete / rename it, maybe	21:24
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fnordianslip	johnx: i\ve got the source, but get build errors when i try 'make modules' ... does the cx3110x-module-src-2.0.15 source have to built anywhere specific, or will my home dir do?	21:25
Cobi	Yeah, that worked, and what I was planning on doing. What I was asking for was the location for that folder :) - ~/apps/email/ is where it is by the way.	21:25
johnx	fnordianslip, Uhm, I don't think it needs anything special. I built it a couple months ago	21:26
rm_you	johnx: well, night then >_>	21:26
rm_you	johnx: i'm sort of regretting moving to a "normal" sleep schedule	21:26
rm_you	<_<	21:26
johnx	rm_you, I'll be on for a couple more minutes	21:26
johnx	I want this damn thing to compile :\|	21:26
fnordianslip	johnx: get the following kind of thing, which is odd, as the directory is there ...	21:27
fnordianslip	make: Entering an unknown directory	21:27
fnordianslip	make: *** SUBDIRS=/home/darren/cx3110x-module-src-2.0.15/src: No such file or directory. Stop.	21:27
johnx	strange	21:27
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RST38bis	back	21:35
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summatusmentis	hi RST38bis	21:36
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RST38bis	ehlo summa	21:37
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RST38bis	lcuk: so,returning to that topic of screen buffers...	21:38
fnordianslip	johnx: might be a stupid question, but more likely to be a stupid me. i'm trying to build the cx3110x source with "make modules" in scratchbox. should i be doing something else instead?	21:39
johnx	honestly, I don't remember quite how I did it	21:39
fnordianslip	k. no worries.	21:39
johnx	there's a guide up on compiling kernel modules, though I thought I remembered using Debian tools to compile	21:39
lcuk	RST38bis, ive got my head in about 30 files at the moment	21:39
johnx	alright, now I really need to sleep, night all	21:41
RST38bis	if yuv mode keeps 3 tables and not one, using it for dynamic content is unfeasible	21:42
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lcuk	what do you mean dynamic content?	21:43
RST38bis	which leaves us with mmapped rgb buffer...	21:43
lcuk	https://wiki.maemo.org/Drivers_justification	21:43
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RST38bis	content that changes at 25fps	21:43
lcuk	RST38bis, read that - in the long run that may be better for you	21:44
lcuk	BUT, dynamic content as in needing to read pixels modify them and write back, or dynamic content as in clear screen and blit loads of sprites onto it	21:44
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RST38bis	lcuk: generating images pixel by pixel at 25fps	21:47
RST38bis	not needing to read tthem of course	21:47
RST38bis	16bpp rgb will be faster	21:47
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lcuk	RST38bis, even 16bit you wouldnt have enough oooomph in the cpu to do more than a small screen per frame	21:48
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lcuk	why pixel by pixel by the way: most games etc use sprites dont they?	21:48
* lcuk can only think of things like fire and plasma type displays which need per pixel updates		21:49
RST38bis	lcuk: emulators	21:49
jott	3d engines? :)	21:50
RST38bis	lcuk: I write emulators.	21:50
derf	Basically everything _except_ sprite-based games.	21:50
lcuk	yes, but dont emulators emulat machines which used to have very limited graphics capabilities and used blitters and stuff to throw sprites around?	21:50
lcuk	jott, 3d rendering is newish :P	21:51
RST38bis	yes but you still generate screen in pixels	21:51
derf	Newish as in 30 years old?	21:51
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RST38bis	anyways, planar mode won't do :( what do you know of that mmapped rgb mode? is it any good?	21:52
lcuk	use sdl and find out	21:52
derf	lcuk: Lots of the old games would do fun stuff like represent sprites by the asm code needed to blit them to the screen.	21:52
derf	So, you know, not exactly easy to pick apart and translate into a high-level blitting operation in an emulator.	21:53
lcuk	nice :D they used the same kind of hacks back then as we need to do for this device :D	21:53
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derf	Of course. You thought this stuff was new?	21:53
lcuk	RST38bis, if you absolutely need a wholescreen pixelmap its gonna be slow whichever way you go about it	21:54
RST38bis	lcuk: the wiki page does not provide any valid justification	21:54
jott	lcuk: emulators usually do not need 800x480..	21:54
lcuk	no derf, i started with spectrums and character based sprites	21:54
lcuk	understood entirely jott - i said that up there ^^^^	21:55
RST38bis	lcuk: well, i wanna it to be as fast as possible ;)	21:55
lcuk	RST38bis, if theres no justifications then add some, or notes on the discussion page	21:55
RST38bis	lcuk: i can write justification and a plan, but feel that it will be somewhat of time waste:(	21:56
GAN800	Guess Canola made it to Diablo Extras.	21:56
lcuk	RST38bis, why? if we get a fast full resolution RGB bitmap available wont you be happy	21:56
RST38bis	basically, ine has to emphasize value to nokia not to community	21:56
RST38bis	lcuk: no	21:57
lcuk	i hope to use the IVA to translate that once per frame wholesale into YUV and out to the epson	21:57
RST38bis	lcuk: i don't think we will get anything out of this	21:57
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RST38bis	ok, i will try.	21:57
lcuk	i think its better to try than to sit on our arses doing nothing	21:57
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overflok1	Lcuk have you program IVA?	21:58
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RST38bis	ga: with or without source code?	21:58
mgedmin	GAN800: really? I thought only packages with sources could make it	21:58
lcuk	package source is included: they rebuild the package but one step says "copy this binary"	21:58
GAN800	X-Fade set up a non-free queue a few days ago	21:58
lcuk	overflok1, not yet, but i hope to	21:58
RST38bis	bleah.	21:58
* mgedmin is still trying to decide whether to stay for 3 or for 5 nights in berlin...		21:58
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RST38bis	ga: does it let you dput?	21:59
GAN800	lcuk, you sure about that? ;)	21:59
lcuk	lol mgedmin if you arent going to the osim thing is 5 needed	21:59
lcuk	GAN800, that was the last info i heard	21:59
mgedmin	that's the thing: I don't know if I'm going to the osim thing	21:59
GAN800	RST38bis, as far as I'm aware.	21:59
GAN800	lcuk, there's an actual process for submitting non-free stuff now.	21:59
lcuk	cool	22:00
lcuk	so map andskype can go through as well then i gather	22:00
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GAN800	They're not Extras.	22:01
GAN800	Those are handled through tableteer.	22:01
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summatusmentis	lcuk: I just tried the liqbase playtest.... I love you	22:07
lcuk	lolololololol	22:08
lcuk	you should	22:08
summatusmentis	it's beautiful... I want editing capabilities :)	22:09
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johill	has anyone attempted to build gphoto2 for maemo?	22:10
lcuk	heh, theres so many things that i am trying to get time to put in :) ive worked with vectors and strokes for ages, just think of it like a jott pad for now and write notes legibly and you might discover a new use for them in the near future	22:10
lcuk	every single stroke is saved and given a large enough sample size your own hwr will emerge :)	22:11
summatusmentis	hmm... intriguing... still, very exciting	22:12
jott	jott pad :O	22:12
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, what did you need me for?	22:12
lcuk	summatusmentis, i use it every day and make notes and ideas - my graffiti wall stretches back to before linuxtag	22:12
GeneralAntilles	Awesome, X-Fade. :D	22:12
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, lardman wanted to start a wikipage and didnt know how	22:12
GeneralAntilles	Oh	22:13
GeneralAntilles	Ha	22:13
GeneralAntilles	That process is probably too simple for its own good.	22:13
lcuk	yes, its ok	22:13
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lcuk	GeneralAntilles, see if you can work a bit of magic: https://wiki.maemo.org/Drivers_justification	22:14
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summatusmentis	lcuk: cool, I'll play with it some more. Excellent job	22:14
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, just went through the recent changes, one sec.	22:14
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rm_you	GeneralAntilles: pushing 0.13 through autobuilder	22:16
jott	0.13 ooh :)	22:16
rm_you	jott: yeah, decided that even though we didnt REALLY release a 0.12, it existed as distinct	22:16
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Atarii	hot	22:17
rm_you	Atarii: soon will have a test package for you	22:17
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rm_you	Atarii: i put in a workaround for 124+ crash	22:17
Atarii	ah nice :p	22:17
rm_you	it was 124+ right?	22:17
Atarii	yea	22:17
rm_you	k	22:17
rm_you	well...	22:18
rm_you	you are just limited to [01]-123 now :P	22:18
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Atarii	simple enough	22:18
jott	rm_you: have you implemented the on-release stuff?	22:18
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xnt	hello i want to mod the init_fs to have a boot menu using fanoush's bootmenu hack and i want to embedd my name into the initfs, but before i start i want to know what would happen if the init_fs was courrpted? and would i be able to recover it by reflashing it?	22:20
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rm_you	xnt: yes a reflash will overwrite initfs	22:21
rm_you	xnt: i believe you can also JUST reflash initfs from the flasher-3.0	22:21
etrunko	anyone willing to try canola in diablo?	22:21
rm_you	etrunko: sure	22:21
etrunko	it's already available for testing in the extras-devel repository	22:21
rm_you	etrunko: i will grab it	22:21
xnt	so if i somehow mess up the initfs i can recover?	22:22
rm_you	xnt: yes	22:22
rm_you	it is very hard to brick these devices :)	22:22
xnt	yes canola 2 works in diablo	22:22
etrunko	okz... for some strange reason the youtube and last-fm plugins don't work atm	22:22
xnt	thanks	22:22
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xnt	yea i installed youtube but it didn't show up	22:23
Atarii	rm_you: what's the best way to set the permissions on the backlight-level file at boot-time, making sure it is executed before the adv-b applet is initiated?	22:23
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RST38h	ga: Sorry, I missed part of the discussion, how did Canola get committed to extras?	22:25
RST38h	Did they have to hack it to "build	22:25
RST38h	" binaries from binaries?	22:25
xnt	btw i flashed diablo yesterday & i found some wimax/xohm icons in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/26x26 and /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable	22:25
rm_you	xnt: :P	22:26
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, talk to etrunko.	22:26
GeneralAntilles	rm_you, the option you're looking for is --flash-only=initfs	22:26
rm_you	yeah	22:26
rm_you	just saying, it is possible	22:26
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etrunko	RST38h: there is a non-free queue	22:30
xnt	ok i just found some 7 pin pads behind my n810s battery, and i just did a google search and i saw that it's a serial port	22:30
etrunko	in dput.cf	22:30
etrunko	[diablo-extras-devel-nonfree]	22:30
etrunko	...	22:30
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etrunko	incoming = /var/www/extras-devel/incoming-nonfree/diablo	22:30
xnt	anyone have a clue on how to use them	22:30
xnt	and is minicom ported for maemo	22:31
etrunko	RST38h: it also applies to extras	22:31
etrunko	thanks to X-Fade	22:31
etrunko	:)	22:31
fnordianslip	xnt: i'm sure it is, but screen works ok, for certain things	22:32
xnt	ok	22:32
xnt	i just read that it needs a ttl level converter	22:33
xnt	i might use carman + serial port + level converter	22:33
xnt	and i also have a obd2 scan dongle	22:34
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xnt	but its from china but it has an elm327 chip	22:34
xnt	so im hoping it'll work	22:34
xnt	http://209.85.215.104/search?q=cache:gSdGuXdQzeIJ:www.bu3sch.de/n810.php+nokia+n810+serial+port&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a	22:35
RST38h	etrunko: I see. Thanks!	22:36
xnt	his site is down	22:36
RST38h	etrunko: Looks like I will be able to continue placing stuff there	22:36
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, I told you it would work out. ;)	22:37
RST38h	lcuk: I have added some stuff to wiki discussion	22:37
RST38h	GA: It is not considered to be worked out until I successfully place a package there =)	22:37
RST38h	lcuk: Check it out	22:37
etrunko	if you're successful you package may be somewhere in http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/non-free/	22:41
lcuk	RST38h, those are very interesting points on the discussion page	22:42
* GeneralAntilles thinks it's quite indicative of the problem when somebody from Maemo Software doesn't know anything about the external bugzilla. . . .		22:43
RST38h	etrunko: and you can promote it to extras non-free using www interface?	22:44
etrunko	don't think so	22:44
etrunko	you upload to the extras non-free directly	22:44
lcuk	you are right to point them out, but we are not really looking at this point for nda level access, just clear documentation and binaries. (obviously if work comes from it its a bonus)	22:45
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lcuk	i gotta dash, handing computer to the kids for a bit.	22:45
lcuk	ill be back later jott / overflok1	22:45
RST38h	lcuk: A lot of times you can only do it via NDA	22:45
RST38h	So I suggest we always mention the NDA option	22:45
lcuk	i do agree with you however	22:46
RST38h	No need to be extra valiant here	22:46
lcuk	uh huh	22:46
lcuk	ill catch up with you after ive had a think n stuff later	22:46
RST38h	etrunko: even easier then	22:46
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etrunko	RST38h: indeed	22:47
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* RST38h is fighting the urge to try it right away		22:50
GeneralAntilles	Ah, another 4 pages of uselessness from itT	22:53
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hrw	morning	22:54
GeneralAntilles	Hi, hrw. :)	22:54
hrw	GeneralAntilles: you read itt still?	22:54
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rm_you	oh dear god	22:55
RST38h	what is wrong with itt?	22:55
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GeneralAntilles	hrw, I can't help it.	22:57
GeneralAntilles	It's like a horrible drug.	22:57
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hrw	RST38h: users, like always	22:58
RST38h	itt users have been relatively decent	22:58
GeneralAntilles	There's still a little inertia left over from back when itT was cool and useful that generates interesting threads every once and a while	22:59
GeneralAntilles	but those threads are few and far between.	22:59
karbas	has any had problems with n810 touchscreen	23:00
rm_you	as it turns out, theres a whole group of devs i didnt even know existed because they hang out on ITT not IRC! :P	23:00
karbas	on my n810 it just stopped working without any warnings	23:00
karbas	:/	23:00
rm_you	or so i discovered from qgil's post on the maemo summit thing about all the ITT users that should go :P	23:00
GeneralAntilles	karbas, I've got a friend who went through two of them with bad touchscreens	23:00
GeneralAntilles	His first one was just straight up defective	23:00
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: and I still can't believe he said basically "GeneralAntilles would be instantly accepted" and you still aren't going to go	23:01
GeneralAntilles	the second's panel connection probably wasn't seated properly	23:01
GeneralAntilles	karbas, RMA it ASAP	23:01
karbas	GeneralAntilles, oh.. so some kind of typical problem	23:01
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karbas	GeneralAntilles, ok	23:01
GeneralAntilles	karbas, not typical	23:01
rm_you	karbas: yeah if it was bumped fairly hard and the connector was already loose, maybe it came unplugged <_<	23:01
rm_you	though I have taken my n800 apart a few times and the lcd connection always seems very solid	23:01
GeneralAntilles	I've heard of exactly two, now three, cases.	23:01
karbas	rm_you, ok	23:02
GeneralAntilles	rm_you, scheduling, scheduling, scheduling. ;)	23:02
rm_you	err, well that would make the entire LCD fail if it was COMPLETELY unplugged... but loose, maybe weirdness	23:02
GeneralAntilles	Next year!	23:02
karbas	is there any warranty seal inside n810:)?	23:02
RST38h	GA: 90% of anything is fecal matter.	23:02
RST38h	The Sturgeon law applies to ITT as well	23:02
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: FSCK your old family, WE'RE YOUR FAMILY NOW! :P	23:02
GeneralAntilles	karbas, don't believe so.	23:03
GeneralAntilles	But don't try and fix it apart.	23:03
GeneralAntilles	er, don't try to take it apart to fix it.	23:03
boolean	heh	23:03
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qwerty12_N800	N810 service manual mentions no warranty seal but like GA says, don't open it up.	23:06
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GeneralAntilles	Mobile devices aren't designed for their repairability.	23:07
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GeneralAntilles	You WILL mess something up and you WILL be out $400. :P	23:07
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Jaffa	re	23:10
karbas	GeneralAntilles, ok	23:10
khertan_	Can't exec "debian/rules": Permission denied at /usr/bin/dpkg-buildpackage line 340.	23:10
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: lo	23:10
khertan_	Re and Hi !	23:10
khertan_	:)	23:10
karbas	normally opened phones for some fixing	23:10
karbas	but not any slider models	23:10
GeneralAntilles	Hey, Jaffa.	23:10
GeneralAntilles	karbas, it's just not worth the risk when you've got a perfectly good warranty. ;)	23:11
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: seen the "TinyAVI Converter" thread on ITT?	23:11
karbas	GeneralAntilles, jeah:)	23:11
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, I've hovered over it, but never got up the energy to click on it.	23:11
qwerty12_N800	Jaffa, the creator of that proggie is on #maemo, fight it out live :p	23:12
rm_you	is it decent? >_>	23:12
* qwerty12_N800 gets popcorn ready		23:12
rm_you	khertan_: probably need to do "chmod a+x debian/rules"	23:12
RST38h	KILL KILL	23:12
RST38h	[but don't forget to PLUNDER first]	23:12
GeneralAntilles	Hehe, Jaffa, exactly what I feared it was going to be. :<	23:14
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Jaffa	qwerty12_N800: I'll probably either one of 1) try getting some semblance of machine features working together on OS X, 2) watch some telly or 3) sleep after spending far too much time last night on (1)	23:14
karbas	GeneralAntilles, gave just a tiny hit to other end of device and touch screen started to work.. but i'll take this to RMA some day	23:14
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RST38h	NASA sent a memo to its employees at the Johnson Space Center asking for their urine so they, NASA, could use it to test the Orion space capsule. How much urine? 30 liters per day, including weekends.	23:16
RST38h	Are they using it for fuel?	23:16
jaska	wtf	23:16
RST38h	"It's difficult to come up with a faux urine, explained NASA's Jim Lewis"	23:16
Stskeeps	RST38h: they sell it to pervs on ebay to gain funding for the space programme	23:16
RST38h	Sts: Not sure they will find buyers for THIS MUCH	23:17
Stskeeps	you never know.. it might be good enough for fields	23:17
Stskeeps	:P	23:17
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GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, poor Victor just can't get anybody to bite. . . .	23:25
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Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: indeed :-(	23:28
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qwerty12_N800	"Display is controlled via LCD controller using LOSSI interface (Low Speed Serial Interface)." :@	23:28
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RST38h	heheh	23:29
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Churl	can you charge the n8x0 through the usb port?	23:30
hrw	no, you cannot	23:31
Churl	too bad, thanks!	23:31
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Cptnodegard	usb port on the 810, np, usb port on a pc, yes	23:32
Cptnodegard	np = no	23:32
Churl	so the n800 does not accept power to it's usb?	23:33
Cptnodegard	no	23:33
Cptnodegard	but there is a cable to charge it from a usb port, plugs into the normal charge port of the 810	23:34
rm_you	Atarii: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/chinook/free/a/advanced-backlight/advanced-backlight_0.13-1_armel.deb	23:34
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Churl	ah sound fun, I have an old nokia phone charger and an extra ipod charger....	23:35
Cptnodegard	buy the original cable	23:36
Cptnodegard	so you wont fry shit	23:36
Cptnodegard	google ca-100	23:36
GAN800	rm_you, did you fix the permissions issue yet?	23:36
rm_you	GAN800: still no :/	23:36
rm_you	GAN800: that comes next	23:36
rm_you	GAN800: I am thinking :/	23:36
GAN800	Ah, then I'm not gonna bother to get the 770 out of my backpack. :P	23:37
rm_you	PFFT	23:37
rm_you	i need to know if it works tho	23:37
rm_you	>_>	23:37
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GeneralAntilles	rm_you, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=203723#post203723	23:39
GeneralAntilles	lol	23:39
rm_you	heh	23:40
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rm_you	win :P	23:40
rm_you	also	23:40
* rm_you bows to GeneralAntilles :P		23:40
rm_you	M'lord :P	23:40
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lcuk_afk	GeneralAntilles, why are you unzipping your fly?	23:41
Atarii770	rm_you: installed 13-1 , works fine	23:41
rm_you	lol	23:41
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Atarii770	lol?	23:42
rm_you	Atarii770: coolness	23:43
qwerty12_N800	rm_you, got a link for that kernel I compiled for you? :p	23:44
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Atarii770	why do shared folders on the network only show up randomly?	23:44
rm_you	qwerty12_N800: err, no, but I have the kernel and I can host it :P	23:44
rm_you	qwerty12_N800: give me a sec	23:44
rm_you	what do you want me to name it	23:44
rm_you	besides just zImage	23:44
rm_you	Atarii770: because windows shares are unstable and random :P	23:45
qwerty12_N800	call it whatever :p	23:45
Atarii770	ah sucks	23:45
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rm_you	qwerty12_N800: give me a version string! :P	23:45
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GAN800	qwerty12suxmaemo4	23:46
qwerty12_N800	zImage-qwerty-pimped-kernel-diablo-rotation-48mmc-dsppatch-9mm-ak47-l337-qwertyp!mp	23:46
qwerty12_N800	:P	23:46
qwerty12_N800	:p	23:46
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lcuk	qwerty12_N800, is that build 1 or 2?	23:47
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qwerty12_N800	no idea, ill take a punt on zImage-qwerty-pimped-kernel-diablo-rotation-48mmc-dsppatch-9mm-ak47-l337-qwertyp!mp-build2	23:47
Atarii770	qwerty12_N800: can the rotation changes be put into the 770 kernel?	23:48
XTL	qwerty12_N800: sounds good	23:48
qwerty12_N800	Atarii770, It's provided by the lcd controller :/	23:48
qwerty12_N800	XTL, thanks :p	23:48
Atarii770	but it half works :(	23:49
GAN800	Atarii, good question. It works for OS2005. . . .	23:50
qwerty12_N800	Atarii, do you have an xrandr xserver installed?	23:50
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qwerty12_N800	*Atarii770	23:50
Atarii770	yea	23:50
rm_you	qwerty12_N800: http://www.ageofikon.info/zImage-qwerty-pimped-kernel-diablo-rotation-48mmc-dsppatch-9mm-ak47-l337-qwertyp!mp	23:50
qwerty12_N800	haha, thanks rm_you! :p	23:51
Atarii770	i have the xserver-xomap meant for n8*0	23:53
Atarii770	installed*	23:53
qwerty12_N800	Nokia have a machine called trice. I've heard it all now :(...	23:53
Atarii770	qwerty12_N800: fancy whipping up a quick 770 kernel to try?	23:54
rm_you	that has dvfs or whatever too right?	23:55
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Atarii770	24mmc also; my mmc cant handle 48 :(	23:55
Atarii770	lol	23:55
qwerty12_N800	Atarii770, I know nothing about 770 kernel compiling :/. I also can't compile a kernel on an n800 :p.	23:56
GAN800	Be nice if Application manager would tell you what repo stuff is from.	23:56
hellwolf	we'll have maemo sashimi in September, isn't it	23:56
qwerty12_N800	rm_you, well, if it didn't, your n800 would be a nice paper weight :p	23:56
rm_you	lol	23:56
Atarii770	ah poop, anyone else able to?	23:56
GAN800	That'll be particularly important moving forward with Extras-devel. . . .	23:56
Atarii770	GAN800: seconded	23:57
qwerty12_N800	rm_you, nah, i know what you mean and it does have the patch.	23:57
GAN800	poop? Yes.	23:57
rm_you	qwerty12_N800: http://www.ageofikon.info/zImage-qwerty-20080715-dsp+mmc+rotation also	23:57
rm_you	if you want something more dignified :P	23:58
qwerty12_N800	GAN800, poke the hell out of m-vo :p	23:58
GAN800	qwerty12, have been. ;)	23:58
rm_you	i should really regiser a maemo-esque domain	23:58
qwerty12_N800	rm_you, hehe, too late, i've already wgetted the old one	23:58
rm_you	s/regiser/register/	23:58
infobot	rm_you meant: i should really register a maemo-esque domain	23:58
GAN800	just make sure it doesn't contain the word 'maemo'.	23:58
Atarii770	rm_you: i just checked the 12-4 and max ==126 sorry	23:58
rm_you	OH	23:59
qwerty12_N800	GAN800, cool. i think that's a nice feature request.	23:59
rm_you	THAT makes much more sense	23:59
rm_you	gah	23:59
rm_you	thanks	23:59
rm_you	now I might know why that bug exists	23:59
Atarii770	0-126?	23:59
lcuk	jaffa, ping	23:59

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