IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-07-15

JamieBennettderf: you raise a good point, I have worked with alot of engineers. My measure of a good software engineer is if I would give that person a job in MY company. Most sadly don't fit that bill. Some do. They are the exception. I want to find the exception that are motivated by contributing rather than commercial work and the commercial side just pays the bills but in this case, they are not alone, they are part of a company of i00:00
yigalI bought a motorazr v3 today as a modem for my n800 and it works great can I add it to ?00:01
yigaloh, never mind it's already there, speaking before reading00:01
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sp3001the current page would be I suppose00:02
yigaloh, that's good to know about00:02
* sp3001 wonders why the old wiki isn't labeled old ...or is it not ...old enough yet? :)00:03
GeneralAntillesjga23, I'm fairly certain there's a package in Extras or maybe Extras-devel.00:03
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GeneralAntillessp3000, probably a good plan.00:05
GeneralAntillesI'll talk to X-Fade about it.00:05
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JamieBennettAnyway, I will be fleshing out the site, as a not for profit software house. If anyone is interested email the address there. (way of topic for maemo but kind of relevant as I for one don't get paid for maemo development)00:05
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lcuk_awayjamie, if a company can sustainably get contracts to allow developers to be free 10months out of 12 then you know what i wouldn't do00:06
lcuk_awaystop fucking working and i would make as much money as i could00:07
lcuk_away- swearing of course00:07
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sp300010 months of free time a year would make you stop swearing?00:08
JamieBennettbut thats the point lcuk_away its not about making money, its about paying people to develop by taking paying contracts then once they have a yearly salary then the rest is 'free'00:08
Toba10 months of free time a year would drive me out of my gourd00:08
Tobanot actually free00:08
JamieBennetttoba: not free :)00:08
Tobajust don't need to worry about their productivity00:08
sp3000GeneralAntilles: otoh the right thing is probably to set a redirect from each page when it's been migrated and polished00:08
GeneralAntillessp3000, some of it contains archived 770-relevant information00:09
JamieBennetttoba: the rest is googles 20% time which could be 2% or 80% who knows :)00:09
GeneralAntillesBold text at the top mentioning the new page might be better.00:09
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JamieBennettemail me if anyone is interested in the concept (not maemo related now but we have some great free-lance developers here)00:10
lcuk_awayJamieBennett, when you have money its easy to pass it by.  when you dont and you have the opportunity to you take it00:10
JamieBennettlcuk_away: email me00:10
lardmanGaaaarrrraaagggeee iiiiiisssss ssssllllloooooowwwwww00:10
lcuk_awayi would love to be involved, but that part of me would always feel like there would be more00:10
lcuk_awayJamieBennett, :) i will be meeting you soon enough00:11
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JamieBennettlcuk_away: you are exactly the kind of person I want to see on board, email me, IM me, phone me (its not that hard to find) or come and slap me at the summit and tell me its a bad idea (bear in mind I'm the 6 foot 4 inch 17 stone ex pro-rugby player ;) (the last bit is true))00:12
lcuk_awaythats ok im a 12 stone weekling - i will kick your ass00:13
JamieBennettmy left leg is about 12 stone, does that count?00:13
lcuk_awayyou must walk with a bit of a limp00:13
JamieBennettI was talking about left center, or right center, depends on which way it wants to hang :D (totally off subject now)00:14
lbterr - does maemo have Gnome::Conf ??00:14
lcuk_awaydunno lbt00:15
JamieBennettlcuk_away: mail me, I'm not sure I have your email unless I've lost it in the deluge, I'm sure we could have a pre-summit chat00:16
lbtgod - you try and do something 'properly'....00:16
lardmanGood to see Igor is on the attendees list00:16
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lcuk_awayjamie, if you get my software (liqbase) you can find my mail address00:16
lbtno Glib::IO, no Gnome::Conf, naff docs on gtkmm .... <sigh>00:17
* lbt grumbles off to mix C into his pure C++00:17
* lbt again00:17
lcuk_awayis there that much missing from ++?00:17
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lardmanlbt: C++, yuck ;)00:18
lcuk_awaydoes it just need compiling for maemo or have you tried00:18
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lcuk_awaylardman, even ive dropped back to c the last few nights00:18
johnxStskeeps, compiling the battery plugin while I sleep00:18
lcuk_awayit was frustrating waiting for compilation times00:18
johnx'night all00:18
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lcuk_awaynight john00:18
lbtlardman: OTOH have you *seen* gtk and C?00:18
lardmanlbt: yeah, I try to avoid GUI programming really :)00:19
derflardman: Smart man.00:19
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lbtmmm - I like kernels...00:19
lcukJamieBennett, you didnt get my pm did you00:19
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lbtMy Gtkmm app consumes 102Mb for a shopping list00:20
lbtI feel gtk may be a bit heavy00:20
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lcukGUI programming should be algorithmic and be an actual function of the contents00:20
lcuknot this fancy designer crap00:20
lardmanno, it should look pretty and be done by artistic types00:20
lbtanyhow - it's even more nearly done now00:21
derfIt should be both.00:21
derfAt the same time.00:21
lbtshame the fridge died :(00:21
lbtcouldn't test the interface....00:21
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lcukthe pretty comes from the widget set in use, but the size and contents should be functional and prioritized00:21
* GeneralAntilles is going slightly less active for the rest of the summer.00:21
GeneralAntillesI will catch you all on the flip side.00:21
lbttoo late - summer's over00:22
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lbtoh, wait, you're not in the UK are you?00:22
GeneralAntilleslol. . .00:22
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lbtwindows client?00:23
lardmanGeneralAntilles: you off then?00:23
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GeneralAntillesGoing home for the rest of the summer00:23
GeneralAntillesvacation and work00:23
GeneralAntillesSo I'll be in and out.00:23
lbtwhere's 'home' ?00:24
lardmanGeneralAntilles: come to Berlin, you know you want to!00:24
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GeneralAntilleslbt, 300 miles south of here, St. Petersburg, FL.00:25
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* GeneralAntilles out00:25
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Medic119i guess all the conversation just ended00:26
* lardman wonders if all of the slab allocation code in the dsb-tremor code should be ripped out and replaced with malloc+free...00:27
lbtno, just using a small font00:27
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lbtI was wrong BTW, I just needed to install libgconfmm-2.6-dev and add it to my build-depends..00:29
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lardmanderf: do you happen to know, or have an idea where I could find memory requirements for Tremor?00:33
lardmanah, the wonders of Google:
lcuklbt :) glad you found it00:34
lbtnow I just need to make it compile - using autoconf00:35
lcuklardman, does the dsp malloc/free allow you to preset which page it sits in ?00:35
lcukor does that not matter00:35
derflardman: Yeah, that's where I would've looked :)00:35
lardmanderf: :)00:36
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lardmanlcuk: not malloc, but it must be a #define to one of the MEM_*() fns which would allow it00:39
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derflardman: How is Tremor going, by the way? Still stuck unpacking the Huffman tables?00:40
lcukits cleaner if it is allocated on the fly00:41
lardmanderf: have been busy with SBC, now that's done I'll get back to it00:41
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lcuklardman, :) its good to know you have a baseline working version.00:43
lardmanlcuk: of SBC?00:43
lcuki gather all this alloc stuff is more optimization00:43
lardmanlcuk: nah, that's finished now00:44
lardmanlcuk: works at 133MHz on the DSP, job done00:44
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lardmandoubtless more optimisation to be done on it, but it does what's needed - ARM can run at 400MHz to do other stuff and no drop outs00:44
lcuki thought that with my blitting - then ssvb told me it could go even faster.  now i optimize for battery life00:45
lardmanso time to move onto other things00:45
lcukthats good then00:45
wizasome a2dp step-by-step installation help anywhere?00:45
lardman ??00:45
lardmanor DSP stuff?00:46
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lardmansee johnx's first post in that thread for his deb to easily enable/disable a2dp00:47
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lardmandownload my tar.gz + .deb + script to install DSP stuff00:47
lardmanand optionally flash the kernel to decouple the DSP + ARM speeds00:47
lcukthat damned cpufreq throttling got on my nerves more than anything ;)00:48
wizalardman: so no step-by-step instructions? :D00:49
lardmanwiza: Ask and I will give ;)00:51
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wizaok, I'm installing the a2dp-support .deb now00:52
lardmantest that you have ARM-encoded output then00:52
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wizaok, I don't even have mplayer installed, gotta add that chinook repository too :D00:55
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wizaok, so now I only have a2dp installed, next step sbc-dsp stuff? where can I find it?01:01
JamieBennettMust sleep ,past midnight here and I need to sleep.01:02
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wiza <- is getting root easily so bad that everybody is trying to hide the easiest way01:06
wizaby removing the whole easyroot part01:06
* lardman has no idea, he's always running in R&D mode01:07
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wizayeah, and I don't see rootsh in apps01:07
Atarii770rootsh has now replaced easyroot01:07
wizaand rootsh is in extras?01:08
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wizaum, I don't see it01:08
Atarii770diablo or chinook?01:09
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sp3000what the heck01:09
wizafree non-free01:09
wizadiablo OS but both repositories01:09
Atarii770its deffo in chinook atleast01:09
* sp3000 wonders what the second statusbar row is supposed to look like01:09
RST38hdr. Ibrahims cancer continues defiling all equipment via email01:09
lardmanwiza: I've got to hit the sack now; DSP stuff is for Diablo only, move the .dev, .sh and .tar.gz to a directory with execute perms (i.e. no mmc/sd), run the script, reboot01:10
wizalardman: ok01:10
lardmanscript should extract tarball, install .deb01:10
wizaAtarii770: maemo Extras chinook,, chinook, free non-free01:10
lardmanif you want to decouple ARM & DSP speeds you can also flash the kernel01:10
lardmannight all01:11
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RST38hlardman: did you file a bug about a2dp integration already?01:11
Atarii770yes its in there; rootsh01:11
sp3000(I mean you want ssh anyway, right, so why add more pieces to the puzzle...)01:12
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GAN800rootsh is easyroot, except in Extras.01:22
GAN800and maintained by somebody who doesn't suck01:23
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crashanddieGAN800, now now, don't be harsh01:26
crashanddiebtw, is garage ever going to use git, instead of svn ?01:26
crashanddieor at least, svn AND git ?01:26
crashanddieor is that a "not a priority, will see" issue ?01:27
GAN800Did you open a bug yet?01:27
crashanddiewut ?01:27
GAN800Until somebody actually talks to X-Fade about it, it's a nothing. :P01:28
crashanddieis not having git a bug ?01:28
GAN800Enhancement request: "Add GIT to Garage"01:28
crashanddieI'm getting sick of "add it as a bug"01:28
GAN800Then quit asknig for things01:28
GAN800That's the process.01:28
GAN800and it's not a "bug" bug01:28
GAN800It's an enhancement request.01:28
GAN800If you don't actually want things, then don't ask for them. :P01:28
crashanddieI was asking for information ffs01:29
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crashanddieI'm not saying "I need git, AAADDDDDD IIITTTTT"01:29
crashanddieI'm asking, have you ever heard about the idea of adding git in the whole process, yes or no ?01:29
GAN800You're the only person I've seen ask for git so far. ;)01:29
crashanddieok, fair enough01:29
GAN800Which is why I'm telling you to file a bug. :P01:29
* jott asked too :)01:29
crashanddieI'm going to file a bug01:29
jottbut i haven't filed a bug yet :p01:29
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GAN800Anyway, once somebody actually gets with X-Fade about it, I'm sure it wont be a problem.01:30
crashanddie"Enhancement requests should not be categorized as bugs. Quite the contrary, they are exactly the opposite of each other. An enhancement request is there to work on a lack of feature, a bug report is there to work on a feature that didn't work out right"01:30
* GAN800 should be on the road, but is waiting for the police to finish arresting his neighbor instead.01:31
jotthuh? :O01:31
jottdramatic scenes?01:31
crashanddieGAN800, I think that's probably one of the best excuses for arriving late I've ever heard01:31
GAN800crashanddie, for the purposes of m.b.o they're all "bugs"01:31
GAN800jott, lots of shouting at the moment.01:31
jottdrunken folks?01:31
GAN800Not sure01:31
GAN800Parole violation of some sort, I think.01:31
crashanddieGAN800, get out, and yell "YOU IDIOTS, THE KIDDIE PORN I REPORTED IS NEXT DOOR"01:32
crashanddieGAN800, or, get out, with your hands on your head, walking backwards to them01:33
GAN800I called my mother to tell her that I hadn't left yet, she asked me if I wanted to move now.01:34
GAN800The funny part about that is that we've got neighbors like this that've lived next door to us at my parents house (in a supposedly nice neigborhood) for 10 years.01:34
RST38hga: we are all expecting gunshots01:35
GAN800RST38h, nah nothing that serious.01:35
crashanddieGAN800, run to the cops, with an alarm-clock, and yell "I HAVE A BOMB, I HAVE A BOMB"01:35
GAN800I've gotta walk right through them to get to my car, though.01:35
crashanddieI think I just might do that once01:35
jottand where is the live video feed anyway?01:35
GAN800jott, you want to buy me a camera? :D01:36
GAN800crashanddie, in this post 9/11 world. . . . ;)01:36
crashanddieHahaha... Just go get your car, and while driving off, thank your neighbour for keeping the cops busy so they didn't write you a ticket for bad parking01:36
crashanddieGAN800, bleh, 9/11 is just a date now, a very specific moment of history, and now, we just want to make fun of it01:37
RST38hcrash: actually, not jut a date01:37
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crashanddie"How long does it take a New York to reach the ground from 107 stories up ?"01:38
crashanddiea New Yorker**01:38
RST38hcrash: very NICE date to fly via us airports01:38
crashanddie"Answer: The rest of his life."01:38
crashanddieRST38h, I bet01:38
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GAN800crashanddie, it's a bit of a running joke in the US among some groups.01:39
RST38hcrash: DIA is EMPTY. No lines. No time spent looking for parking spot.01:39
RST38hNice and clear just like 10 years ago01:39
crashanddieRST38h, I'd be tempted to book a flight for "Kayda, Al" on 9/11/0801:39
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crashanddieor "Wrist, Terry"01:40
crashanddieawesome to hear that on PA01:40
RST38hcrash: your airport receives anything bigger than a cessna?=)01:40
crashanddiewe receive A380's actually :P01:40
RST38hNy has a sign Clinton/Killworth at one place01:41
RST38hcrash: Umgh!01:41
crashanddieAnd yes, those fly over my house01:41
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RST38hwhere from?01:41
crashanddiewe're the second end for the test flights01:41
crashanddieso we get like one a month01:42
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crashanddieafter every landing, there's a 30 minute inspection of the landing-way01:42
crashanddiebecause they're not "entirely" sure the asphalt can take it01:42
GAN800That's such an awesome plane.01:43
* GAN800 brings those to fly-ins in X-Plane every once and a while.01:43
RST38hwait until they make a flying wing...;)01:43
crashanddieWell, not that awesome when it flies over your house at full speed, trust me01:43
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crashanddieSeriously, those bitches are noisy01:44
GAN800I've lived under the primary flight path for a small local airport for most of my life01:44
GAN800So I'm useful to Cessnas, anyway.01:44
GAN800On the phone with my mother01:44
GAN800muscle memory is really taking over.01:44
crashanddie"Gen is useful to Cessnas"01:44
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GAN800Flap my arms really hard.01:44
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crashanddieGAN800, you fly in V formation, make a wind tunnel and help 'em take off ?01:45
GAN800Run down the runway with a rope really fast.01:45
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crashanddieGAN800 is in fact the guy who seems to have the most boring job in the world... It's pushing a plane with a 3ft long mini-car01:46
rm_youwnd: thanks01:46
rm_youJaffa: I love that you're encoding Dr. Who in the mockups :P01:46
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crashanddieLaw of P2P: The more you watch the download as it progresses, the lower the download rate will go01:47
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GAN800crashanddie, that's why I do my downloading on a remote machine! :D01:48
rm_youcrashanddie: not if you're on the right tracker :P01:48
crashanddiethere's like a dedicated thread in the process... while (1) { if (screen.hasFocus()) download.stall(); }01:49
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V13is this channel logged and the output archived and available from web ?01:50
crashanddieThe second law of P2P, no matter how good your internet connection is, P2P will only max out your internet connection from 5 years ago01:50
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rm_youcrashanddie: not if you're on the right tracker :P01:51
crashanddierm_you, probably01:51
crashanddierm_you, I've given up private trackers and everything01:51
crashanddieV13, yeah01:51
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rm_youget on a decent private tracker and you can ignore both of those rules :)01:51
infobotrumour has it, maemo-logs is IRC channels are logged at
crashanddieV13, why ?01:51
rm_youcrashanddie: so he can report us for P2P :P01:52
crashanddiego ahead01:52
crashanddieknock yourself out01:52
V13Please forgive the self-talking. I'll only say this because it took me some hours and it may by usefull for others too.01:52
rm_youof course, I only download linux distros on my private tracker :P01:52
crashanddiebut you'll notice there's "adsl" in my host :-°01:52
crashanddieand I'm on FiOS :D01:52
rm_youoooo FiOS :P01:52
GAN800rm_you, don't even get him started.01:53
V13If you wan't to connect to the Internet using Bluetooth and GPRS on maemo diablo (but should work with chinook and bora too) then the easiest way seems to be dbus, by using existing services.01:53
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GAN800Looks like I'm not getting on the road today. :\01:53
V13wan't == want01:53
crashanddieGAN800, why so ?01:53
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GAN800I'm tired, it's getting dark, and the police are still here.01:54
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V13To connect: dbus-send --system --print-reply --type=method_call /com/nokia/icd string:"Connection Name" uint32:001:54
crashanddieV13, it would probably be more interesting to post this on ITT01:54
GAN800It's a ~5 hour drive.01:54
V13To disconnect: dbus-send --system /com/nokia/icd_ui boolean:true01:54
V13ITT ?01:54
crashanddieV13, internettablettalk.com01:54
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, itt is the forums on ( )01:54
V13er.. where exactly ?01:55
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crashanddierm_you, apparently, GA is sick of me ranting/bragging about my internet connection :P01:56
GeneralAntillesandre____, poke.01:56
rm_youGAN800: why are the police there? confiscating your hard drives? :P01:56
V13crashanddie: in what forum ?01:56
GeneralAntillesrm_you, neighbor's got a parole violation thing going, I think.01:56
crashanddiewhat GA doesn't understand, is that I'm pretty depressed, because I'm moving to the UK, and I'll be happy to have dial up access for the first few months01:57
GeneralAntillesAw, poor crashanddie.01:57
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rm_youto the UK from where01:57
andre____GeneralAntilles, hrmpf?01:57
GeneralAntillesandre____, you got a few minutes to discuss the Garage tracking?01:57
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crashanddieV13, in General I guess01:58
andre____GeneralAntilles, i just finished triaging all incoming bugs and just want to sleep. would prefer tomorrow01:58
GeneralAntillesSounds good. ;)01:58
GeneralAntillesSleep well. :)01:58
crashanddieandre____, 'night man01:59
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crashanddierm_you, france01:59
* GeneralAntilles really wants a / mask.01:59
* crashanddie gives GA a Scream (c) mask02:00
rm_youcrashanddie: ah02:00
rm_youI would be excited about moving to the UK :P02:00
rm_youexcept maybe taxes02:00
rm_youthe British do love their taxes02:01
crashanddieI'll try to evade them as long as possible, don't worry02:01
rm_youwhatev, US economy is going bleh, I want to be paid in Euros / Pounds :P02:01
rm_youalso, I love saying things like "Hey, you got 5 quid?"02:01
rm_youquid is awesome :P02:02
derfPounds won't be far behind.02:02
GeneralAntillesrm_you, likes being watched by cameras.02:02
derfThe UK's economy is headed the exact same place as the US's.02:02
wizaargh, BT_GETCAPABILITIES failed, input/output error02:02
rm_youheh, don't mind it :P02:02
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crashanddierm_you, how much do you get paid now ?02:02
rm_youderf: :/02:02
rm_youcrashanddie: well, not much :P as I don't really have a job <---- student02:02
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rm_youcrashanddie: when I do work during the school year, I get paid $10 US to sit in a room and tell people to call Dell, we don't work on hardware02:03
rm_youor else configure wireless connections while playing flash games02:03
crashanddierm_you, hah...02:03
crashanddierm_you, exactly what I thought02:03
crashanddierm_you, you know, you would only get a pound if you were paid $100 :P02:03
derfrm_you: You might want to consider staying in school a few more years.02:04
rm_youalternatively, the other company I work for just gives me a new $2000 tabletPC for part time coding <_<02:04
derfMaybe go to grad school.02:04
andre____timeless, hmm. now do i forward your four tinymail bugs to the internal one or not? sigh02:04
rm_youderf: heh, I dont think grad school is for me >_>02:04
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rm_youcrashanddie: lol? >_>02:04
crashanddiebtw, wanted to check something02:05
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crashanddieHere in France, we're getting images of people sleeping in front of their banks to get their money02:05
crashanddieIs the recession that bad ? :D02:05
rm_youderf: I'll be done in a year and then out into the workforce as a code-monkey in a cubicle :P02:05
rm_youlol no02:06
penguinbaithahah, uh no02:06
rm_youno one really notices02:06
GeneralAntillesandre____, why does Modest/tinymail even have an internal tracker? <_<02:06
crashanddieThe world is spinning on its head...02:06
crashanddieThe French are going to make a movie about the US... "The Great Depression: Reloaded"02:06
GeneralAntillesandre____, I'm of the opining that all open-source components should be required to do their bug tracking in Bugzilla.02:07
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* RST38h silently moving The French two places up the target list02:07
crashanddieRST38h, I'll give you a nuke, and GPS coordinates02:08
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RST38hyea, I know you will...02:08
GeneralAntillesRST38h, check those on Google Local before you launch. :D02:08
crashanddiehahahahaha :D02:08
GeneralAntillesOh, on the subject of GPS02:08
GeneralAntillesHas anybody done any rundown tests with the N810 using GPS?02:09
GeneralAntillesI'm wondering how much GPS impacts its idle times.02:09
crashanddierundown ?02:09
RST38hcrash: Seriously though, some leftie French guy is going to shoot a movie based on Carrion Comfort02:09
rm_youthey stole my blood today >_>02:09
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, battery life tests.02:09
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, oh, it's awful02:09
GeneralAntillesOh really?02:09
GeneralAntillesThat sucks.02:09
GeneralAntillesIs that just tracking or with a real mapping application in use?02:10
crashanddiereal mapping02:10
GeneralAntillesI'm just thinking with gpsd active.02:10
crashanddieHaven't tried that02:10
GeneralAntillesFor the purposes of GeoClue type stuff.02:10
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, I'll load my n810 full battery tonight02:10
RST38hcrash: THAT ought to be delicious02:10
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, and tomorrow morning I'll start gpsd, without any other software running (no wifi either)02:10
EdgesterI've got a deb build error that I'm hoping someone can help me with. It's 5 lines long. Should I post in channel or pastebin?02:10
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, I'll see how long it holds up02:11
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, thanks! :D02:11
derfGeneralAntilles: With maemo mapper running, an external BT GPS, and the screen off 99% of the time, I got about 13 hours.02:11
crashanddieEdgester, always pastebin, rather, always !02:11
derfJust for reference (wifi also disabled).02:11
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V13bye guys!02:11
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles, yeah, on defense of the n810, the screen was fully lit the whole time (in full sun), with navigation and everything02:12
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mikedep333hello everyone02:12
mikedep333I was out of commission as I lost my charger for my n80002:13
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mikedep333and I ordered two chinese ones off ebay that were supposed to be compatible02:13
mikedep333they weren't02:13
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Edgester"FAKEROOTKEY not defined in environment" is the weirdest error in that list02:13
mikedep333I ended up just buying a real one from techforless.com02:13
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles, didn't you talk about a FAKEROOTKEY error earlier ?02:13
mikedep333now I need to decide whether or not to uprade to diable02:13
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mikedep333will chinook apps (or at least the majority of them) work on diablo?02:14
crashanddiemikedep333, yes02:14
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, not me.02:14
GeneralAntillesSDK questions aren't my domain.02:14
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mikedep333the majority of them?02:14
mikedep333or all of them?02:14
crashanddiemikedep333, all, nearly (haven't found one that didn't)02:15
mikedep333how will I go about updating my SD card install (I'm using the manual boot menu solution to the ext2 partition)02:15
EdgesterGeneralAntilles: who should I ask?02:16
GeneralAntillesEdgester, the channel, if somebody knows, they'll say. ;)02:16
Edgesterto the channel: can anyone help me with the following error: "libfakeroot: FAKEROOTKEY not defined in environment"02:17
mikedep333oh, wait02:17
mikedep333you have to flash02:17
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mikedep333so I can't do an update the easy way02:17
mikedep333but how do I get a new install on an sd card?02:17
crashanddiebut like I said, I haven't tested them *all* so take this cum grano saltis02:18
Edgesteron a different note, is there any explanation of the bootstrap process for the n8x0? I'm curious what bootloader is used and how it works?02:18
GeneralAntillesmikedep333, the only major library change was libssl02:19
GeneralAntillesso 99% of stuff will work.02:19
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mikedep333how do I get it on my sd card?02:20
GeneralAntillesFlash it to the flash02:21
GeneralAntillesset it up02:21
GeneralAntillesSame process as before.02:21
mikedep333ok, great02:21
GeneralAntilles~boot-sd is
infobotGeneralAntilles: okay02:21
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crashanddieEdgester, faked --debug --foreground02:22
crashanddieEdgester, search for fakerootkey in that page02:23
mouser-I'm having some difficulties with using a flash drive or keyboard with a USB f-f adapter.  I don't have any dmesg messages when I connect it, but I have some when trying to change mode with usbcontrol and refreshing in usbcontrol.  See and
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mouser-...for dmesg messages02:27
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penguinbaitis it just me, ornis that picture disturbing?02:41
penguinbaits/ornis/or is/02:42
infobotpenguinbait meant: is it just me, or is that picture disturbing?02:42
GeneralAntillesBecause you wish you had one of those to keep on your mantle? :P02:42
penguinbaitthats just wierd02:43
penguinbaithey GA, you going to Berlin?02:44
GeneralAntillesNah, still up in the air on a family reunion that's either that weekend on the next02:44
GeneralAntillesand don't want to take up a sponsorship slot with a $1700 plane ticket until I'm sure I can go. :<02:44
GeneralAntillesWhich wont be in time to get sponsorship02:44
GeneralAntillesSo, next one. ;)02:44
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penguinbaitme too02:45
GeneralAntillesHopefully it'll be state-side.02:45
GeneralAntillesThat'd be fun.02:45
mikedep333is there a list of what's new in diablo somewhere?02:45
GeneralAntillesmikedep333, change log? Ahahaha02:45
GeneralAntillesHang on, I've got a decent list02:46
mikedep333like a condensed one?02:46
GeneralAntillesJust gotta generate the search real quick02:46
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penguinbaitseems like with the dollar being so shitty, it would be economical to do it in the US02:47
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GeneralAntillesmikedep333, did you get my last two messages?02:48
mikedep333the announcement02:49
GeneralAntillespenguinbait, it might be close to evening out once you factor in the expensive plane tickets for the Europeans02:49
mikedep333and the bug fix list02:49
GeneralAntillesOK, good.02:49
penguinbaitok grandpa simpson, or yoda?02:50
mikedep333yeah, I love the improved panning in microb02:50
mikedep333the slowness of it was a big complaint02:50
GeneralAntillesmikedep333, it's even better in svn.02:50
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GeneralAntillesmikedep333, Navi compiled an older svn for Chinook02:52
GeneralAntillesdoesn't work with Diablo's new setup02:52
GeneralAntillesbut scrolling was like butter.02:53
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mikedep333yeah, cool02:56
GeneralAntillesStill waiting on a new svn from Diablo02:56
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Still waiting on a new svn for Diablo02:57
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penguinbaitqgil "What I'm actually surprised is about the lack of sponsorship requests coming from the rest of core contributors. Specially those flying from outside Europe"02:58
penguinbaitdoesn't seem that surprising to me?02:58
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GeneralAntillesWe're too polite. :D02:59
* GeneralAntilles kills himself.
* GeneralAntilles hunkers down for another iPhone thread.03:00
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draco_Is there any change log for diablo03:13
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mouser-Yeah, sort of, one second, draco_03:14
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GeneralAntillesdraco_, somebody just asked that exact question 5 minutes ago.03:14
draco_Why dont you put it on topic with tinyurl link?03:15
GeneralAntillesBecause the topic is big enough03:15
GeneralAntillesand it's not really all that useful03:15
mouser-Also here, draco_:
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draco_Btw is there any gtk+ patch that makes scrollbars usable forf left handed?03:17
GeneralAntillesdraco_, there was a thread, like, 8 hours ago on internettablettalk.com03:17
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GeneralAntillesIt'll come up in search for "lefties"03:17
draco_If not it would be my first hacking experience for maemo03:18
GeneralAntillesIt's really easy for the browser03:18
GeneralAntillesother stuff is a little more involved.03:18
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GeneralAntilles~diablo-changelog Announcement: Version chart: Bugzilla:
GeneralAntilles~diablo-changelog is Announcement: Version chart: Bugzilla:
infobotGeneralAntilles: okay03:19
draco_A generic gtk patch would do it, doesn't it?03:20
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draco_I'll check it out thanks03:21
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rm_youSo, to anyone who actually speaks French fluently: which makes more sense to you: "Avis aux utilisateurs N800!", "Utilisateurs de N800: méfiance!", "Utilisateurs de N800 Attention!", or "N800 utilisateurs méfiez-vous!"?03:24
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rm_youthe original English being "N800 users beware!:03:25
rm_youthe original English being "N800 users beware!"03:25
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crashanddierm_you, first one03:36
rm_youeveryone keeps wanting to change it03:37
crashanddierm_you, what's the whole sentence though ?03:37
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rm_youthat is the whole sentences03:37
crashanddieand where do you want to change it ?03:37
crashanddierm_you, yeah, but what's the context ?03:37
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crashanddierm_you, "N800 users beware the lochness monster will eat you if you don't have your afternoon tea"03:38
rm_yousomething like that03:38
crashanddieprenez garde03:38
crashanddie"Avis aux utilisateurs des n800: Prenez garde!"03:39
jga23anybody know of a subversion client that will work with diablo?03:39
crashanddierm_you, take that last one03:39
crashanddierm_you, link ?03:40
Edgestercrashanddie: thanks for the FAKEROOTKEY tip, but it the build still compains with the same error :(03:40
crashanddieEdgester, I've no clue really, was just a google answer03:40
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secureendpointsWhy would there be a fetching of an ACL?   I already told you, when the cache manager obtained the AFSFetchStatus structure for the file, it received the CallerAccess and AnonymousAccess values.  Those are the values checked in src/afs/VNOPS/afs_vnop_access.c  afs_GetAccessBits()03:41
crashanddiesecureendpoints, right, that makes sense now03:42
secureendpointsoops, wrong window03:42
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Zetxrm_you: why?03:50
rm_youcuz you have an n800, so why not?03:50
Zetxlol true03:50
Zetxi keep forgetting to upgrade to diablo (is the final out or whatever?)03:51
rm_youyou should flash now03:51
rm_youand then put your root on SD03:51
rm_youwhat SD card you have03:51
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Zetxa 4gb sandisk and the default... whatever03:52
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rm_youis it 128mb?03:52
rm_youi think you can fit root on that? >_>03:52
rm_youkinda lame tho03:52
rm_youlol no, my root is 643 mb03:53
rm_youi wonder what i have thats using all that space03:53
Zetxyeah, 12803:53
Zetxi'll get a card when i get some ram for the thinkpad...03:53
Zetxonce i order it all03:53
Zetxand a bluetooth keyboard03:54
rm_youwhat job you got? what ya making?03:55
rm_youthat's very expensive >_>03:55
Zetxyeah :|03:55
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GeneralAntillesI haven't had a fast food burger in forever.04:01
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rm_youi had one like, yesterday04:02
GeneralAntillesOf course04:02
GeneralAntillesbut they're good when you eat 'em once every 2-3 months.04:02
rm_younot really >_<04:03
* rm_you had one for the first time in over a year, and thought it was bleh04:03
rm_youthough that was McDonalds, so bleh04:03
GeneralAntillesOh pfft04:04
GeneralAntillesMcDonalds is the worst.04:04
rm_youIIRC, Jack in the Box is good04:04
GeneralAntillesYes it is.04:04
GeneralAntillesOne of the best04:04
GeneralAntillesI like Wendy's, too.04:04
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derfScrew that, it's all about Five Guys.04:05
rm_youdont think i've had a wendy's burner in 10+ years04:06
rm_youpossibly ever04:06
rm_youi dont think I've ever GONE to a wendys04:06
GeneralAntillesWendy's has great everything04:07
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rm_youit would have been dinner picked up by my parents when i was like 10 or younger04:07
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GeneralAntillesYou get Chick-fil-A up there?04:07
rm_youno but in TX04:07
rm_youit is delicious04:07
rm_youthough overpriced04:07
rm_youand closed on Sunday is BS04:07
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rm_youfscking religious southern states04:08
GeneralAntillesI used to go there every morning at 5 AM before school.04:08
rm_youso expensive04:08
rm_youit's like, 3x as expensive as other fast food04:08
GeneralAntillesEh, lower percentage of the meal is grease. ;)04:09
GeneralAntillesIt works out.04:09
jga23GeneralAntilles: I tried to install that, but its missing libssl, should I just install that from chinook as well?04:10
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GeneralAntillesjga23, you could do that, or maybe play with the control file04:11
GeneralAntillesThere shouldn't be anything different enough about .98 to warrant needing .9704:11
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yergabahh, diablo extras isn't going updated from more than 15 hours, will be it a bug?04:18
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GeneralAntillesHrm, rootsh was added this morning and seems to be in there now.04:23
yergayes, the .debs are there04:24
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yergabut the packages file isn't updated04:24
GeneralAntillesrootsh is in the Packages now04:25
GeneralAntillesIt took a while, though. . . .04:25
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yergait could be problem mine04:27
yergaI don't find rootsh in the packages04:27
yerganot apt-get04:27
GeneralAntillesHrm, I lied.04:28
GeneralAntillesIt's in Extras-devel packages, but not Extras.04:28
yergaok, extras-devel is fine04:28
GeneralAntillesI guess file a bug and maybe assign it to X-Fade.04:29
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jga23GeneralAntilles: you mean just grab the source and change the control file before the deb is created?04:42
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xnthello how do i access the status led on the nokia n810 via a /dev file? im trying to write a shell script & i want to access the led.04:48
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xntis it something like echo 1 > /dev/led0 ?04:53
yergaxnt, you need to do it with dbus04:54
yergabut I can't help you very much04:54
yergabecause I really don't know04:54
xntoh ok04:54
GeneralAntillesjga23, that, or unpack and repack it04:54
GeneralAntillesxnt, jott has a little python application up somewhere that demonstrates it.04:55
xnti see something in /sys/devices/system/leds004:55
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yergaGeneralAntilles, please assigne to Niels:
yergaI haven't editbugs yet05:06
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GeneralAntillesDone, thanks yerga.05:10
yergathanks to you ;)05:11
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GeneralAntillesyerga, if you're not ready for editbugs, you should at least get canconfirm. ;)05:21
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rm_youare there plans to upgrade the Garage servers?06:03
GeneralAntillesYes, rm_you.06:08
GeneralAntillesProbably a month or so away06:09
GeneralAntillesdependent on the Finnish vacation period ending.06:09
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dougthow does one determine idle time on maemo?06:13
dougtwhere idle time is the amount of time there hasn't been user input?06:13
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dougtnormally on X, you would ask the xss06:22
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DHRrm_you: I'm thinking of reflashing my n800.  You wrote earlier "you should flash now" "and then put your root on SD".  Where is root-on-SD described?06:24
infobotrumour has it, boot-sd is
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dougttimeless: ^06:26
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dougtwhat is the largest size media card you can buy for the n810?07:27
GeneralAntilles8GB currently07:27
GeneralAntillesMaybe 16GB now, actually.07:28
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* dougt googles07:29
dougti wonder if fry's has any.07:32
* dougt will try tomorrow.07:32
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dougthey GeneralAntilles, have you ever heard of a problem between the n810 devices and various routers?07:37
GeneralAntillesCrappy routers that don't properly support PSM, yes.07:37
GeneralAntillespower saving mode07:37
dougttalk to me about this?  i see this _ALL_OF_THE_TIME_07:37
dougti am using a air port extreme.07:38
dougtmac router.07:38
johnxahaha...ah, the pain of apple routers07:38
johnxI had to deal with one at a previous job07:38
johnxturn power saving on your n8x0 to "off" or "intermediate" in the connection settings -> advanced dialog07:38
GeneralAntillesBeware, it'll kill battery life.07:38
dougti don't care about battery life.07:39
johnxor, replace your router07:39
dougtdraft-n is fast.07:39
dougtbut yeah.07:39
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johnxdougt, make sure your airport is up to the latest software/firmware version available for it, too07:44
dougtthanks in advance guys.  You have saved me a 2 minute walk daily from my desk to over where the router is.07:45
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* dougt take thanks back!07:53
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jga23GeneralAntilles: how do I repackage a deb file?  I have the modified control and data tar.gz, what compression method is deb?09:10
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acydlordoh man, defcon is making me cut it very close on funding09:17
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solmumahajga23: ar -r packagename.deb debian-binary control.tar.gz data.tar.gz09:18
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jga23solmumaha: thanks09:28
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jga23solmumaha: the control.tar.gz has a . directory in there, how would I make an archive with that?09:34
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jga23solmumaha: basically what I'm trying to do is change the requirements for subversion to use libssl0.9.809:34
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qwerty12It may just be easier to recompile it in the diablo sdk:
jga23I haven't had a chance to set up my scratchbox on my new laptop09:39
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qwerty12My scratchbox is tied up atm, but here is the depends line changed from libssl0.9.7 to 0.9.8:
qwerty12You may need to symlink libssl if it doesn't work.09:41
jga23thanks qwerty1209:44
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jga23qwerty12: got it09:48
jga23had to symlink libssl and libcrypto09:48
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avsGuys - if anyone will be at Black Hat or Defcon and wants to meet with Maemo's Nokia side security guys, let me know.10:27
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gomiamDeka: someone crashed against a Google tag?10:38
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DekaYa, those dang things are everywhere now10:39
avsI heard someone actually built one so that it is visible in aerial photos, so you can see it in the satellite view10:41
XTLiIf you built, say decss or such or even cp big enough, would they censor it?10:43
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avsor a copyright text10:44
GeneralAntillesHrm, we could really use a Hacker Edition article for the wiki.10:45
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, poke.10:51
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hrhrhi all, where I can find developer of gpe-pim for maemo?10:56
XTLiThe packager should be in the pkg headers10:57
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XTLiAnd devs in the sources10:57
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XTLi(Graham Cobb?)10:59
hrhrdo you know him?10:59
X-FadeXTLi: Graham visits this channel sometimes.11:00
X-FadeXTLi: Do you have a maemo specific question/problem?11:00
XTLiHrhr there asked11:00
X-FadeEhm, that was for hrhr ;)11:00
X-FadeSorry, pre-coffee here :D11:01
XTLiIn-coffee + flapjack here :)11:02
XTLiShould start getting something done11:02
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, I think I want a .install for Extras-devel.11:06
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Look closer ;)11:07
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I think it is already there?11:07
GeneralAntillesNot there11:08
* GeneralAntilles doesn't have better ideas.11:08
tank-manwhat is extras devel for? dev packages to compile on the NIT ?11:08
GeneralAntillestank-man, it's a testing repository.11:08
GeneralAntillesalpha, pre-alpha and beta stuff.11:08
tank-mani see11:08
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: It is there now ;)11:09
GeneralAntillesPerfect, thanks.11:10
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, crashanddie and jott were both asking about the possibility of using git for Garage projects.11:12
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GeneralAntillesBut since they're both too lazy to file an enhancement request like I told them to, I'm poking you directly.11:12
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: That is a massive task..11:13
JaffaMorning, all11:14
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Intergrate it in garage, sourcecode viewer, account management, security measures, commit mails etc..11:14
JaffaAnd it's pointless toolwankery and advocacy.11:15
JaffaFor the purposes which Garage is intended for, svn is absolutely the right choice, IMHO11:15
X-FadeJaffa: Well, git itself is really cool when doing distributed development.11:15
X-FadeAnd merging and tracking changes it a lot better than svn.11:16
JaffaX-Fade: but Garage isn't distributed development: it's centralised development (by defn)11:16
JaffaGeneralAntilles: you poked me, btw?11:16
GeneralAntillesYeah, I'm just pondering over 770Flasher -> Tablet Flasher.11:16
X-FadeJaffa: Well, you can have a central branch. But git is really cool in preventing bitrot of a non-committed patch.11:17
JaffaGeneralAntilles: I'm playing with getting a small OS X partition up to do just that *cough*11:17
JaffaBut my previous efforts had no networking so it got blown away through misuse.11:17
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JaffaIf it works, I'll dust off XCode and try and even do it properly11:18
GeneralAntillesOoh, fanoush is gonna open a Garage project for community kernels.11:18
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: He already did.11:19
hrhrX-Fade: sorry, I have question about gpe contacts and it localization11:19
XTLiI'm not too keen on svn either.11:19 has really been moving along nicely in the last few months. :D11:19
XTLiSeems it's a common choice. Certainy nicer than cvs in many ways11:19
X-Fadehrhr: I think you can ask your question on -developers. Graham certainly reads that.11:20
GeneralAntillesGetting some prebuilt N800 and N810 kernels into Extra-devel would be pretty cool.11:20
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* lcuk_work wiggles his wires about12:21
zapAnybody knows what the penalty for -mabi=softfp vs -mabi=hard is, when using -mfpu=vfp?12:21
lcuk_workzap, doesnt that depend upon the amount of fp you are doing in your program12:22
kulvezap: yeah, depends on totally what you are doing, but:
kulvethat does some very simple fp calculations only12:23
zapkulve: cool, I was looking for your page but forgot the url :)12:23
lcuk_workkulve, cool page :)12:24
zapkulve: hmm, why no benchmark for -mfpu-vfp -mabi=hard ?12:24
zapah, I see: "vfp.c:1: sorry, unimplemented: -mfloat-abi=hard and VFP"12:24
lcuk_workzap, with the thumb/full modes if i have a few modules with specific fp functions can i compile those modules using full vfp but leave the rest compiled to use thumb?12:26
lcuk_workif that makes sense12:26
zapI'm not sure fpu can be accessed in thumb mode12:26
lcuk_workthats what i mean, and thats the default for general code isnt it? smallest binary and all that12:27
trickiehmmm i applied to Frantisek's kernel project at the garage (to become a member of the group) and i automatically became an admin12:28
trickieis that normal?12:28
lcuk_worklol trickie, it depends what they accept you as12:28
lcuk_worki think i almost let GeneralAntilles become god12:28
trickiehe he12:28
X-Fadetrickie: No, the admin has to manually set your role.12:29
trickieok, so maybe he made me one... i have told him before that I have a few patches for the project12:29
zaplcuk_work: I don't have experience with thumb code anyway12:30
X-Fadetrickie: You could interpret it as a cry for help ;)12:30
zapbut it's not default anyway12:30
lcuk_worktrickie, patch the entire program with void main(){ while(1){ printf("Trickie rulez!!!\n"); } }12:30
trickiehe he12:30
trickieX-Fade: yeah he seems busy now... got a new family member...12:30
trickieill try and get some time to put into it12:31
zapkulve: so it looks like there's no point to use -mfpu=vfp at all?12:31
X-Fadetrickie: It would be really cool if we can provide community kernels in extras-devel ;)12:31
trickiefor sure12:31
lcuk_workzap, i thought it was: at least for nokia released source - and the context switch between full/thumb takes time so its better to stay in thumb.  not sure where i read that and i might be wrong12:31
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kulvezap: even if it's now default, it might not be in the next toolchain..12:32
zaplcuk_work: thumb mode has very limited use, and I never seen on any platform it to be the default12:32
zaplcuk_work: it's like 16-bit mode on x86; every CPU has it but almost nobody uses it12:32
lcuk_workthumb isnt limited, its simply 16bit opcode: like 68k.  its just not got all the super cool do 10 related things per opcode stuff12:32
lcuk_work(that fullmode has)12:33
zapit is limited because you can access only R0-R7 in thumb mode12:33
zapand limited access to R14 and R1512:33
lcuk_workexactly, like 68k12:33
zapwell I don't know 68k12:33
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* lcuk_work feels comfortable with thumb12:34
zapnot being able to use all registers is what I call limited12:34
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lcuk_workits very hard to make use of the 32bit opcodes to their fullest and so you still end up wasting time by needing to use 64bits of code to do what 32 would manage12:35
lcuk_workbut anyway, i understand - when it works, it works well12:35
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zaplcuk_work: 90% applications will gain from more registers13:01
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zapand 32-bit ARM has a very nice instruction set, don't see why not use it13:02
lcuk_workread the post i put, things use thumb by default13:03
zapthis can't be true13:04
zapdo a 'file /bin/busybox'13:05
zapit says ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, blah13:05
zapalthough of course they could switch to thumb mode after init13:06
lcuk_workyou can have an ELF with 32bit alignment by all means13:06
lcuk_workthat does not mean the cpu operating mode13:06
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lcuk_work32bit alignment was recommended even in amiga days, its simp[ly the fastest way to access memory13:07
prometoyshi, where can i get information about the different distributions? I have a new n810 with os2008, but not the newest. and i am totally confused13:07
zaplcuk_work: when it says 32-bit it means 32-bit instructions13:07
wndI think "recommended" is an understatement :-)13:08
zapOn a 64-bit CPU: /bin/bash: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-6413:08
lcuk_worklol wnd13:08
zaplcuk_work: besides, looking at the file with my own eyes I clearly see it's not thumb13:08
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lcuk_workzap, what file?  its entirely possible things have changed since the kulve etc investigations up there13:09
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lcuk_workor you are looking at your own file13:09
zaphmm, the beginning looks ARM 32-bit but then comes something strange13:09
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trickielcuk_work: file is a utility to determine file type13:10
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GAN800prometoys, wikipedia is a good start. . . .13:11
lcuk_workyes, but i thought an ELF was a container file and the sections within contain different kinds of data: a 32bit ELF can contain data and code blocks using totally different modes13:11
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zapyes thats true, and gcc mixes 32-bit and thumb code13:13
zapyou can go back and forth at any point13:13
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lcuk_workyes agreed: at the function level you can choose which mode it needs to be.  but look at the links: when compiled in vfp (ie not thumb) things run a bit faster at the expense of memory and space.13:14
lcuk_workspace is the big one here13:15
zapwell at least I can say thumb is not the default for the compiler: the binaries compiled by me are clearly 32-bit13:15
lcuk_workif you are still looking at the container then yes, but i would hazard a guess that even a fully compiled thumb binary would be marked as 32bit13:16
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zapnope, I'm looking at the hexdump of the executable (via mc on tablet). 32-bit code has a very specific look13:17
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zapmost 32-bit commands begins with E13:17
zapthose are the condition bits iirc13:18
XTLi"I no longer really see the hex anymore. All I see is 32b, thumb, data..."13:18
lcuk_workdid you see the woman in the red dress?13:18
lcuk_workget gcc to export asm and look properly, i gotta go13:19
zapmaemopad+ is also pure 32-bit13:19
zapso even if busybox is thumb, it was explicitly set in gcc options13:19
zaplibc is 32-bit as well13:20
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zap"The VFP architecture also supports execution of short vector instructions allowing SIMD (Single Instruction Multiple Data) parallelism"13:40
zapdamnit, what's the gain from DSP then :)13:40
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RST38hSix legged robotic sheep with grass mowing jaws and gps13:46
RST38hSomehoe I already know how it is gonna end...13:46
zapis this a new Ultimate Weapon from Pentagon?13:47
zapwe already seen the four-legged Dog That You Can Bump13:48
lcuk_workas long as the enemy is grass then the military will win ;)13:48
RST38hno, it is created by some arts prof from philadelphia13:48
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lcuk_workzap, i agree by the way the SIMD instructions are cool13:48
RST38hreported to make "most amusing sounds"13:48
RST38hprobably something like KILL ALL HUMANS13:49
RST38hlcuk: arm simd or intel simd?13:49
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zap"Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep"?13:50
lcuk_workarm, if i could have used them simply my blitter would be even faster13:50
zapthis is something to ask google about13:50
zaplcuk_work: DSP and CPU shares the same bus for access to video RAM?13:50
lcuk_workvideo ram is standard memory13:51
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RST38hlcuk: I did not find them useful:(13:51
lcuk_workthe lcd controller has DMA access to it  (but its not quick enough)13:51
RST38hhad to do blending but no luck13:51
lcuk_workRST38h, my blitter wanted to take the largest 128bit blocks first, followed by 64bits and continuing down to the last single byte13:52
zapmmmh, interesting if VFP registers can hold 64-bit integer values13:52
RST38hlcuk: the key question is how fast vram is? let us say you write a program in asm that reads 16kb in a loop 10000 time13:52
zapthis would allow to push 64 bits at once over the bus, which could be a little faster than pushing 32 bits twice13:53
RST38hhow long does it take vs sdram?13:53
lcuk_workevery time i attempted to move more than 32bits software segfaulted13:53
lardmanwhat's vram?13:53
zapRST38h: these 16k will end up in CPU cache13:53
lcuk_worksdram is a "shitload" slower than the internal 2420 memory13:53
zapVRAM is video RAM - an old msx acronym :)13:53
RST38hzap: just learn to stmia :)13:53
lardmanzap: the on-omap stuff, or on the lcd controller though?13:53
RST38hzap: not if you read them randomly13:54
zapRST38h: I'm not sure stmia is anything more than several str's13:54
RST38hin fact reading them in 32-byte intervls should avoid cache13:54
lcuk_workyou cannot "read" the data directly back from the lcd can you?  its a consumer only13:54
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RST38hzap: it is faster13:54
crashanddiethe only real benchmark13:54
zapRST38h: then cool13:54
zaplcuk_work: do you use stmia in your benchmark?13:54
crashanddieis to map a certain memory size13:54
RST38hlcuk: shitload is how much?13:55
crashanddieand the read/write through it, while incrementing the value you write into it13:55
RST38h2 times? 3 times?13:55
lcuk_workthe 2420 has 5mb onboard memory that so far is essentially unused.  i want to put the pvr/dsp/iva framebuffer there and blit out to main memory as required after processing13:55
lcuk_workzap, nope?13:55
RST38hhow many cpu clocks does it take to fill a cache line from vram?13:55
zaplcuk_work: then possibly you could gain a couple extra FPS13:55
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zapRST38h: lcuk says VRAM == RAM on OMAPs13:56
lcuk_workno i couldnt, even doing no drawing and just calling the framebuffer refresh ioctl gives 25fps13:56
RST38hzap: it is the same thing13:56
lcuk_worki get same if i draw the screen 4 times13:56
RST38hI am calling it vram because it is primarily used for screen buffer13:56
* lcuk_work is GPU constrained13:57
zaplcuk_work: framebuffer refresh is executed in fb driver?13:57
lcuk_workyes, the ioctl tells the LCD controller to start transferring data13:57
zapah, I see13:57
zapso 25fps is the constraint of the LCD -> RAM bus13:58
zapnot CPU -> RAM13:58
lcuk_workyes, anything faster and you overwrite memory and get tearing13:58
lcuk_workno, the cpu can draw the screen plenty fast enough13:58
RST38htearing is fine13:58
zapso VRAM is actually not RAM, right?13:58
RST38hat least with me13:59
RST38hzap: you are mistaking several concepts13:59
zapI want to understand13:59
lcuk_workRST38h, :) depends on what you are doing of course.  tearing with page of text is not acceptable13:59
zapI feel a broken ring in the chain somewhere13:59
lcuk_worka glitch in the matrix13:59
RST38hzap: 1. memory interface to cpu13:59
RST38hzap: 2. primary memory usage14:00
zapwhat you mean by this14:00
* lcuk_work goes again14:00
RST38hzap: 3. physical memory design14:00
crashanddieanyone seen the doctor horrible thingy ?14:01
zapif I understand correctly, if there's some ioctl that tells the LCD controller to pump data out of RAM to video RAM, then video RAM is physically located elsewhere14:01
RST38hzap: in pc world there once was a fashion to call dual port sdram "vram@14:01
crashanddiezap, well, it wouldn't have to, per se14:01
zapotherwise the CPU could pump the data itself, and it would be faster14:01
RST38hzap: but for the rest of us vram is something that stores video buffer14:02
crashanddieyeah, but that would use CPU cycles14:02
RST38hzap: hardware wise it is probably sram14:02
zapRST38h: you think it is mapped somewhere to physical address space?14:02
zapcrashanddie: we could use DSP for that, for example14:02
RST38halthough I have no idea how ti squeezed 5mb sram on chip14:03
lcuk_workzap, the LCD contains its own private memory and is not accessible from the omap2420 or any user software14:03
RST38hzap: it should be14:03
RST38hprobably 0x0500000014:03
lcuk_workit simply pulls a block of memory allocated from main memory14:03
RST38hthat is where arms like to have video14:03
zapso RST38h contradicts what lcuk says14:03
RST38hI am making a conjecture14:04
RST38hlcuk may know better14:04
lcuk_workthere is a block of normal memory allocated to act as a framebuffer though14:04
lcuk_workthis is the block the the LCD pulls from main memory and displays14:04
RST38hlcd memory is NOT omap vram14:04
zaplcuk_work: how often?14:04
lcuk_workeverytime the ioctl is called14:04
zapokay so 'framebuffer' from CPU point of view is just a block of normal SRAM14:05
zapthen you just set up the LCD controller to copy data from here to its internal RAM14:05
lcuk_worknormal standard data on the ddr as far as i know, the SRAM is internal to the 2420 and not used if i remember rightly14:06
zaphmm, if so, perhaps SRAM could be used for framebuffer :)14:06
zapthis will give a whole 5 extra Mb to apps14:07
lcuk_workno because the LCD could not access it (since its outside the 242014:07
RST38hnot malloced14:07
zapRST38h: kmalloc'd14:07
RST38hsram is at a fixed address14:07
lcuk_workBUT, if we can start to use the IVA and pvr i would like to use that 5mb as framebuffer and get the IVA pumping it back out so the lcd can see it14:07
crashanddieok, I'm going to try and interrupt a bluez developer conversation, so maybe they'll help me :P14:08
RST38hI would really like to use those 5mb as sram. can I ?14:08
zapcrashanddie: put on your iron helm14:08
lardmanlcuk_work: That would then imply 2 sets of memcpy operations rather than 114:08
lcuk_workRST38h, i dunno, i was looking the other night14:08
crashanddiezap, that's not exactly to help with bluetooth problems, is it :P14:08
lcuk_workits interesting in that its superquick and could be used to pull off some nice tricks14:08
zapcrashanddie: that will minimize the radio noise, so perhaps it could14:09
lcuk_worklardman: what does it matter - the iva isnt used yet and we should be able to use that to transfer: we wouldnt be taking anything away from the system as it stands14:09
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ShadowJK_bluetooth is funny. Some people were talking about piconets with 8 computers and what not... Bloody hell, it's fucking hard enough to make more than 2 bluetooth things maintain a connection to eachother, let alone 714:10
zaphmm, if SRAM is just at a different physical address from DRAM, I don't see why kernel can't use it14:10
lcuk_workyes, its an extra step, but would be worth doing: process 3d quickly into SRAM RGB buffer, use IVA to translate to YUV and push it into normal memory space, update LCD14:10
lardmanWhere's the DRAM other than in the DSP?14:10
zaplardman: DRAM == DDR RAM in my case :)14:10
lardmanhmm, my mistake, I was thinking DARAM14:11
lardmanand is this talk of SRAM actually SARAM14:11
zapyou wear pink DSP glasses14:11
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lcuk_worklardman, i dont know its name: on the 2420 specs it says 5mb memory onboard for streaming multimedia app14:12
lcuk_workor something like that14:12
lardmanok, so some random memory :)14:12
zaplcuk_work: thats what you were meaning as 5mb SRAM?14:12
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lcuk_work5-Mb internal SRAM boosts streaming media performance14:12
lardman5 mega bits that is14:12
lcuk_workyes - its enough for a framebuffer whether bits or bytes14:12
lardmanI was refering about to an earlier comment about it being fitted on the chip14:13
lcuk_workand as far as i can tell is just another under utilized piece of silicon14:13
ShadowJK_so how do you use it? :-)14:13
lcuk_worki dunno yet14:14
zapok so how I see it, even if we can use IVA, it will render to normal RAM, and then you have to tell LCD to pump data out to VRAM14:14
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lcuk_workyes, with this hardware there is no way round that14:14
ShadowJK_and DRAM -> LCD is bottlenecked at 25fps for a full frame?14:15
zapthe "Display Controller" block is not used in N8x0, is it?14:15
lcuk_workShadowJK_, yes, a full YUV frame,  important distinction14:15
lardmanzap: IVA doesn't render, it processes14:15
zaplardman: how's that different?14:15
ShadowJK_What's IVA? that powervr thing?14:15
zapindeed I was meaning powervr14:16
lardmanlcuk_work: look at the vanilla kernel source and see how they use the inbuilt framebuffer14:16
lcuk_workIVA is a image processor - it converts between formats ,it scales etc14:16
crashanddieI'll be back14:16
lardmanShadowJK_: Imaging Video Accelerator14:16
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zapand it comes that with current hw architecture IVA is mostly useless as well?14:16
ShadowJK_Is IVA what's used for Xvideo?14:16
lardmanShadowJK_: it's a processor + hw coprocessors + some memory buffers to do various image/video processing (whatever you write the code for)14:16
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lardmanShadowJK_: but it's not used atm14:17
ShadowJK_ah okay, the LCD does YUV->RGB too14:17
lcuk_worktotally useless - but will be vital i think to getting the 3d RGB rendered frame out of 2420 and into main memory as YUV14:17
zapwho handles YUV -> RGB then?14:17
lardmanShadowJK_: no, the lcd controllercan do scaling and rotation and it's used14:17
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ShadowJK_IVA does YUV->RGB?14:17
lardmanShadowJK_: whatever code you write14:18
lcuk_workIVA is designed for RGB->YUV14:18
zapbut no other way around?14:18
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lcuk_workhave a look lardman14:18
ShadowJK_I think it was lcuk who said the LCD controller can take YUV?14:18
lcuk_worknice fast rgb<->yuv conversions built in14:18
lardmanShadowJK_: yes, it can take a variety of formats14:18
lardmanlcuk_work: where are you reading this?14:18
zapwell my logic is that if LCD controller is totally separate from the OMAP, then IVA won't gave too much gain14:19
ShadowJK_Right, so you wouldn't want to use the IVA for YUV->RGB then, because that'd increase the amount of data you'd have to push through the bottleneck to the LCD14:19
lardmanyou'd do RGB->YUV14:19
zapbut you can use it for RGB -> YUV14:19
ShadowJK_If you don't mind the chroma subsampling I guess :-)14:19
zapmost users won't14:20
ShadowJK_the pixels are so small anyway..14:20
ShadowJK_What other things except the powervr stuff is dead weight at the moment because of tight ass specs? :-)14:21
lardmanthe IVA14:21
lcuk_workjust finding it lard14:21
lardmanlcuk_work: np14:21
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zapand perhaps the 5Mb SRAM lcuk is talking about?14:22
lardmanyes, that too14:22
lardmanbut that's probably accessible with some kernel tweaks14:22
TheNewAndyis there a #define that I can use to tell if my code is being compiled for maemo or not? (I'm not cool enough to use the autoconf tools)?14:23
lardmanlcuk_work: The reason I ask is that the IVA appears to have 2 hw accelerators - VLC and iMX, so lariable length coding and SIMD operations14:23
zapTheNewAndy: use a configure switch or that, something like --enable-maemo14:23
lardmanlcuk_work: you could certainly write some code to do RGB->YUV, I'm just not so sure that's a hw component14:24
lardmanTheNewAndy: create your own, there's nothing pre-existing afaik14:24
zap"Flicker-free video and click-free audio during multitasking"14:24
* zap sighs14:25
lcuk_worklardman, not sure whether its hardware but i remember reading there was yuv->rgb conversion as  a feature14:25
zapaudio is another weak point of n8xx14:25
zapand I don't see any hw bottleneck here14:25
lardmanwhy's that?14:26
lcuk_work:D heh liqbase comes up as first result for omap2420 yuv to rgb conversion in google14:26
X-Fadelcuk_work: Don't let google's dynamic profiling fool you ;)14:27
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lcuk_worklol i ts scary sometimes, internettablettalk has quite high rank.14:27
lcuk_workslashdot is similar14:27
X-Fadelcuk_work: It knows what you search for, so it ranks that accordingly.14:27
lcuk_workhow come it works at home then14:28
X-Fadelcuk_work: Ever use gmail at home too? :)14:28
lcuk_workmy searches for silicon there still come up with microprocessors14:28
lcuk_workx, i knw igoogle tries to keep me logged in but i logout and clear cookies :) i hate that mail and google are tied14:29
lcuk_workmy google account should never come near the front page of google search itself14:29
lcuk_workAND the logout on google main page doesnt work14:29
* lcuk_work stops ranting14:29
ShadowJK_hm, in my user experience the media player seems to keep mp3 playing long after everything else becomes hung and unresponsive :-)14:30
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lcuk_workwtf - does this look familiar14:30
ShadowJK_But gui sounds disappear early and arrive all at one at some later point long after (but not always)14:30
lardmanargh, copy&paste not working again!14:32
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lardmanSo does that mean the Nokia phones don't use the hw accel?14:34
zaplardman: why audio is a weak point or what?14:35
korgothhm hm , anyone with n800/n810 around? i need a hint on chargers? :)14:36
ShadowJK_hint on chargers?14:36
korgothwhat charger is it using14:36
lardmanzap: yes14:36
ShadowJK_mine's a AC-4E14:37
ShadowJK_the small nokia plug14:37
korgothstandard small plug - nice! :)14:37
ShadowJK_the new plug, not the one that used to be standard before they made it small ;)14:38
korgothyes, yes i got it - but that seems to be the standard from now on :-)14:38
RST38hthe next one you will be able to sew with...14:40
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zaplardman: N8xx has a shitty sound architecture, don't you see compared to Zaurus or PCs?14:48
zapno ALSA, laggy sound output14:48
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lardmanThere is ALSA if you want it14:48
zapalsamixer doesn't work, aplay -L show no devices14:48
zapit's some weird partial emulation14:48
zapplay Breakout2 a little, you'll see how sounds lags out a lot (by about a second)14:49
lardmanfair enough14:49
lardmanwhat does Breakout2 use as its sound format?14:49
zapno idea yet, but I bet it does not lag on PCs14:49
zapbesides, most realtime games preload sounds to sound buffers14:50
lardmanwho cares about PCs, they are completely different14:50
lardmanif it's mp3 data for example, I could understand the lag14:50
zapwell, I had no sound problems on zaurus C3100, and it's PXA270/400MHz14:50
lardmanIs it a compiled game, or flash?14:51
RST38hesd works ok on n8x014:51
zaplardman: native linux binary14:51
dnearyhi lardman14:51
RST38hno lag unless you ask for it14:51
lardmanhi dneary14:51
dnearylardman: Do you think that Programming the DSP is good as it is, in terms of technical content?14:52
RST38hI have no idea why we have not got /dev/dsp though14:52
zapmpd port for example is awful14:52
lardmandneary: talk or the wiki page?14:52
zapeven via esd14:52
dnearyThe wiki page14:52
lardmandneary: the wiki page is ok, I need to tidy it up a bit though14:52
lardmanor has it been moved?14:53
RST38hprolly expects too much from esd14:53
dnearyNo - it's on the new wiki14:53
dnearybut it's exactly the same content14:53
lardmanshould be ok really14:53
lardmanI can have a look at it this evening and add/update/etc.14:53
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: It seems the plugin isn't working because bugzilla runs on a really old version of mysql.14:54
lardmandneary: It's quite old, I should remove the EAP_* stuff, or move to a wishlist section, and add more stuff about memory, etc.14:54
lardmandneary: but the steps to get a working toolchain, etc., are all still the same14:55
lardmanzap: sounds are wav14:56
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lardmanzap: uses SDL for the audio output14:59
lardmanusing Mix_PlayChannel()14:59
lardmanI don't know what the SDL backend is, might be worth looking there14:59
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JaffaRST38h: thanks again for the mockups, re separate dropdowns for bandwidth & framesize - I'll keep it in mind, but that'd require some big changes to the tablet-encode internals. Happy to have information on the selected preset shown, and maybe even have a GUI for creating a new preset with those two dropdowns (and the ability to set your default preset)15:00
RST38hJaffa: I do not think that having single preset is that important15:02
RST38hJaffa: a user will fell just fine with up to 3 separate dropdowns AS LONG as you provide sensible defaults15:03
wizalardman: I installed everything(except kernel) for a2dp and I get BT_GETCAPABILITIES failed error15:03
RST38hand for video encoding you really just need two dropdowns15:03
lardmanwiza: probably need a reboot15:04
lardmanwiza: switch headset off too15:04
RST38h>3 controls will casue "what is all this shit" reaction though (see ffdshow ui)15:05
Makeghois there a system for developing to maemo on windows?15:05
RST38hmake: no15:05
JaffaRST38h: Understood. And, admittedly, with the fact that bandwidth can go quite high now at 400x240 resolution. Will further ponder15:05
Makeghocould try something like vmware maybe?15:05
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RST38hJaffa: you can tell mencoder to cap bandwidrh15:06
Makeghoor use python, that works I think?15:06
RST38h400x240 is not the output frame size - it is just starting dimensions of the preview ui15:06
wizalardman: same error15:06
lardmanwiza: try a2dp disable, then a2dp enable15:07
RST38hand you can resize it with the window later - as long as it keeps proportion it does not matter what size it is15:07
lardmanwiza: I've had that before, tried lots of things, and eventually it's worked15:07
wizano workee15:07
zaplardman: SDL is said to be "optimized" for Nokias15:08
zapI believe SDL uses esd backend in our case15:08
lardmanzap: who says that? I thought that was pretty far from the truth15:08
RST38hmake: vmware is not native development15:08
zaplardman: well, SDL is part of the official firmware, isn't it?15:08
RST38hmake: but python and perl should work15:08
lardmanwiza: can you play with a2dp disabled? Through the speakers?15:08
lardmanzap: no afaik15:08
wizaI can play to my headset with a2dp disabled :D15:09
lardmansounds like a2dp hasn't grabbed the headset15:09
lardmandid you do "a2dp firstrun"?15:10
lardmanrunfirst perhaps15:10
lardmanis BT icon blue?15:10
JaffaYay! Just what we need, another mencoder wrapper15:10
wizahmm, I recall something from my last fight with a2dp15:11
lardmanwiza: try switching headset off, then back on15:11
RST38hJaffa: isnt it what you are using though?15:12
wizadid that, still nothing15:12
zaplardman: do a dpkg -s libsdl1.2 and look at the maintainer: field15:12
lardmanzap: I don't have a machine in front of me15:12
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JaffaRST38h: yeah, someone's making a fanfare over there new mencoder wrapper script on ITT. Just seems like wasted effort rather than getting involved in one of the (many) we've already got.15:13
zaplardman: well it's something@nokia.com15:13
lardmanwiza: hmm15:13
lardmanzap: I'll have a look over lunch15:13
wizainput/output error(5)15:13
lardmanwiza: ah, is that a new one>15:13
zaplardman: I just want to say that it would be cool to have an ALSA driver for the sound :)15:13
zapa native one, not emulated15:13
wizaBT_GETCAPABILITIES failed: Input/output error(5)15:14
lardmanzap: TBH I don't really know what differnce it would make15:14
wizaa2dp actually worked with chinook, of course w/o dsp15:14
wizaso it was pretty much unusable15:14
lardmanwiza: yeah, these are not DSP-related problems but rather a2dp related ones15:14
zaplardman: it would make a lot of difference15:14
zapyou will get both OSS and ALSA at once, and forget ALSA-via-esd emulation15:15
RST38hJaffa: I would take this as a sign that you shouldnt be so complacent:)15:15
lardmanwiza: with mine, as soon as I turn it on I get some static through it as the N810 links using headset profile (and I get a little headset icon up the top), then I start mplayer and after a short delay I get A2DP & headset icon goes gray again15:16
* RST38h still wonders whether he should fake apple appstore on top of packrat15:16
zap"The S1D13745 contains a 1280K byte display buffer and supports 24 bpp display modes", but 800*480*4 is 1.5Mb15:17
lardmanwiza: am heading home for lunch, will be back online when I get there and will look and see what I can do with my headset to break it (:S)15:18
zapah, 856*480*3 is exactly 1280K15:18
lardmanzap: it's a strange size so it can do backbuffering, etc.15:19
lardmanand TV out15:19
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jottbut too less to do real double buffering with a full rgb screen.. :(15:19
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wizalardman|lunch: ok :D15:21
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lcuk_workjott, if i remember rightly, the omapfb doesnt do hardware double buffering even for lower resolutions15:21
lcuk_workand 640*480 would fit nicely, and is basically unnoticable on this screen15:22
zapBoo, found the full spec on S1D1374515:23
jottzap: yeah it's on the epson site15:23
lcuk_work(test this in liqbase and see if you can spot where some of the pixel are doubled)15:23
zapPixel doubling is done with the S1D13745?\15:25
zapHmm, no, it can't be15:25
zapmust be some OMAP thing15:26
lcuk_workits direct on the lcd hardware15:26
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lcuk_worknothing  to do with omap at all15:26
lcuk_workif you push a block of memory of (lets say) 400*480 you can tell the LCD hardware to scale it to fullscreen15:27
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jottzap: just take a look at the driver source drivers/video/omap/blizzard.c15:27
zapyou can choose if you want to double horizontally/vertically separately?15:27
lcuk_workrun liqbase and see for yourself :)  the code is around so you can check if it does anything other than "Here show the user this screen"15:27
jottzap: you just define an input and output rect15:28
zapum, so actually "pixel doubling" can do arbitrary upscale?15:28
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lcuk_workzap, specific pixel doubling is slightly different to the arbitary tv mode scaling15:28
lcuk_workbut both go through the same hardware15:28
zapunfortunatly I don't have the sources handy15:28
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lcuk_workjott - sidenote: it downscales as well: i can tell it to draw a full 800*480 display in windowed mode15:29
lcuk_workmornin hrw15:29
jottlcuk_work: sure, that's the point of defining input and output rects ;)15:30
jotthello hrw15:30
lcuk_workdamn! i thought that might be something super-jott might not know15:30
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lcuk_workfoiled again!15:30
lcuk_workanyway, im closing this wormhole and returning to my own universe.  back after work15:31
jottyeah good luck in avoiding customers :P15:31
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JaffaRST38h: agreed on the complacency; and as for app store-like look & feel, it can't do any harm to take some design what Apple's done and copy it for a similar purpose15:34
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lardmanwiza: still no joy?15:36
wizalardman: no, I stopped fighting it for a while and started to actually do some work, while looking for an apartment since I just resigned my current job :D15:37
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lardmangood luck15:40
lardmanlooks like most of the error conditions should return some text using error()15:40
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lardmandid it give you a fn name, etc. too?15:40
wizalardman: pcm_bluetooth.c:1589:(bluetooth_init)15:42
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lardmanBT_GETCAPABILITIES failed : ?15:43
lardmanit was this fn iirc which causes the error: err = audioservice_expect(data->server.fd, &rsp_hdr->msg_h, BT_GETCAPABILITIES_RSP);15:44
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lardmando you get something like this before that error?: Bogus message %s received while....15:46
wizaumm, I just play mplayer on xterm and it says that error after selecting audio codec and line of = signs15:47
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wizaand it's that BT_GETC.... error15:48
lardmanI'm not sure how to debug it really15:48
wizathat fn and line number is just before i15:48
lardmanit does an IPC call to a server15:48
lardmanI needed to repair the headset15:49
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wizawell that is the same error15:50
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wizaI have repaired it a few times but what's once more...15:50
lardmanI also deleted it from the BT devices list15:51
wizahmm, now it seems to work, I think15:52
wizasome header->sbc output stuff etc15:53
lardmanthat's about all you should see15:53
wizacomputers = randomness15:53
lardmanon the mplayer side, you'll see nothing if it works, or a -1 falling back to sw encoder if it fails15:53
wizahow can I install that kernel stuff?15:54
lardmanwiza: yeah, error reporting could be better15:54
lardmanuse the flasher to flash the kernel15:54
lardmanLinux flasher that it15:54
wizanow that I'm feeling lucky15:54
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wizaumm, device cant flash itself?15:54
lardmanpupnik: what do you know about SDL optimisation?15:54
lardmanwiza: yes it can, I don't know how though15:54
pupniklardman: umm.. actually optimizing sdl? or using it more frugally?15:55
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wizawell, I need to hook it up to my htpc or server when I get back home, my work machine is mac :D15:55
lardmanpupnik: well its state of optimisation15:55
wiza(or as I usually say: other Unix :))15:55
lardmanwiza: there's a MAC flasher actually15:55
lardmanwiza: I should have said !Windows15:55
wizalardman: only that graphical 770 works since this is intel15:56
lardmanwiza: ok15:56
pupniknot much. jott looked at it a bit.  it might benefit from a yuv mode.  and it might be possible to hack-in page-flipping at lower resolutions.15:57
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lardmanwiza: when you get back to Linux do something like "flasher -k zImage -f -R"15:58
lardmanlcuk_work: fancy a little project?15:58
lardmanShould be easy enough to put in ssvb's memcpy & colorspace convert fn from the mplayer svn16:00
lardmanassuming SDL doesn't need to interact with the Xserver?16:01
wizalardman: ok16:01
jottsdl on the nits uses the x11 backend atm.16:03
lardmanAh, I'm just reading this thread
pupnikthing is, mplayer already has its data in yuv format.  with sdl games, you'd be adding a RGB-YUV conversion16:04
lardmanyes, but ssvb's memcpy & convert code is nearly as fast as a simple memcpy16:05
pupnikah nice16:05
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lardmanthe data need to be copied to the framebuffer, so do a free conversion at the same time16:05
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lardmanwill need to write directly though, looks like there are some issues16:05
pupnikarbitrary resolution setting would be nice too - from lcuk's work16:05
lardmanhence my trying to persuade him to do it :)16:06
jotti still think a raw omapfb backend would be nice16:06
lardmanagreed, what is the limitation there?16:06
jotti.e. manually controlling the update of rects etc16:07
jotttime and manpower to create it? :)16:07
lardmanshouldn't take too long I wouldn't have thought?16:07
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mattimohi maemo16:08
jottyeah a draft could probably done in reasonable time16:08
mattimoI am trying to build the networkmanager on the maemo n800 but I can't get the gnome-keyring dependencie resolved16:08
mattimohas anybody ever done that?16:09
lardmannot really my thing, I don't do games, but I'm surprised someone hasn't had a go already16:09
jottotoh it might be nice to improve the directfb omapfb driver16:09
jottand use sdl directfb backend16:09
lardmanjott: Ah, I see16:09
lardmanjott: I've only looked at it in passing, what needs to be improved?16:09
jottsuupport for scaling etc.16:10
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jotti just took a short look at it tbh16:10
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lardmanhmm, I thought that was in there16:10
jottin directfb?16:10
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lardmanah, it's an abstraction layer of the kernel fb driver16:12
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lardmanlooks interesting, has anyone started?16:13
jotti don't think so. i just did some initial investigations16:13
jottnot sure about the implications on either side...16:13
jottso if directfb would limit us in capabilities that can be provided to sdl...16:14
jottother than that i think directfb would be a more generic approach and might help other projects..16:14
lardmanwell it would be a step in the right direction at least16:14
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dnearySo - anyone here actually use a Bluetooth network device with the tablet?16:57
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lardmanthey exist?17:00
summatusmentisdefine bluetooth network device17:00
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summatusmentisi suppose technically my phone is a bluetooth modem...17:01
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hrwmy desktop has PAN, my phone is BT Modem - does it count as BT network devices?17:04
summatusmentisyour desktop has PAN? cool :)17:05
hrwsummatusmentis: PAN is very easy to setup17:06
summatusmentisI wonder if my Macbook supports it17:06
* mgedmin distrusts claims from people claiming X is very easy17:06
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rm_youdamn, another ping scrolled off >_>17:11
hrw15 05:24 < DHR> rm_you: I'm thinking of reflashing my n800.  You wrote earlier "you should flash now" "and then put your root on SD".  Where is root-on-SD described?17:18
hrwrm_you: that one?17:18
hrwnow it is "15 16:19" here17:19
rm_youah <_<17:20
rm_youi need to figure out how to make xchat have a larger scrollback buffer17:20
crashanddieI have a flat ! :D17:20
rm_youcrashanddie: I have an apartment! :D17:20
crashanddieI don't care17:20
crashanddieI have my flat :D17:20
rm_you<3 en_BR17:21
crashanddieen_BR ?17:21
crashanddieenglish brasil ?17:21
rm_youdunno which they use :P17:21
crashanddieoh, en_GB :P17:21
rm_youen_GB :P17:21
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crashanddieI just was on the phone with the lady who's looking for a tenant (it's a flatshare, appears to be 2 gals and another bloke in the house)17:22
XTLiAre they cute?17:22
crashanddieand at some point she goes "well, we have another australian and..." "australian ?" "yeah... You're not australian ?" "do I sound australian ?" "well yeah... Where are you from then ?" "erhm, I live in France atm" "oh, this is awkward"17:23
crashanddieI sound Australian... I don't know if I should feel insulted or take it as a compliment17:23
trickiewell at least you will have good flatmates :)17:23
crashanddietrickie, I take it you're australian ?17:24
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trickiewe do sound strange i guess... i been living in holland long enough that now when i hear australians i cringe a little bit17:24
trickieits a rough accent17:24
trickiebut usually friendly people :)17:25
* qwerty12 goes to join community kernels project :)17:25
crashanddieyou live in holland ?17:25
crashanddiewaar? :P17:26
X-FadeHier ;)17:26
crashanddiebetter not talk dutch, or the spanish will come and invade the channel17:26
trickiewhere are you moving to?17:26
rm_youlardman: what are you using as the base for your kernel?17:26
crashanddietrickie, london17:26
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lardmanrm_you: standard pulled from the diablo repo17:27
trickieqwerty12: come be an admin with me17:27
trickiecrashanddie: where are you from?17:27
rm_youlardman: ok... can you send the patch you use for SBC to qwerty12 ?17:27
crashanddietrickie, all over europe, really :P17:27
qwerty12rm_you: I sent it him :P17:27
rm_youah ok17:27
lardmanqwerty12: yep, though your patch was malformed ;)17:27
rm_youso his kernel has all the other stuff too?17:28
qwerty12trickie: Cool, thanks, I'm requesting to join atm :)17:28
lardmanrm_you: no, just that dvfs patch17:28
qwerty12lardman: hehe, I didn't test it :P17:28
crashanddietrickie, born in belgium, lived about everywhere there, a bit in delft too, then france, and now the UK :)17:28
trickiecrashanddie: cool, strange that they mistook you for an aussie... hard accent to *sound like*17:28
trickieunless you are drunk i guess17:28
trickiehe he17:28
rm_youlardman/qwery12: yeah... so, the kernel is the only weirdness I worry about with a bunch of independent devs... we need a central "this is the patched kernel" project or something, so that we dont have a bunch of different versions floating around with different things missing17:29
trickiecrashanddie: well good luck in big bad london!17:29
trickierm_you: there is a community kernel project at garage now17:30
trickiejust for coordinating that17:30
crashanddietrickie, well, when I speak with my "american accent", people tend to think I'm a bastard american-french dude, when I speak with my british accent, people think I'm either from upper-class london, first time anyone thought I was from Australia :P17:30
rm_you*is it*?17:30
rm_youAll i know is that I have had several people send me kernels17:30
rm_youand i have no idea what they were built with17:30
trickierm_you: nothing there yet, but we want to have a coordinated project, and release kernels through extras-devel17:31
lardmanrm_you: takre a look at the maemo-devel list from today17:31
trickieyeah or that :)17:31
rm_youlardman: k17:31
lardmantrickie: ;)17:31
crashanddieanyway, back to work17:31
rm_youtrickie: yes, that really is a good idea (and probably necessary)17:31
lardmantrickie: I'll email you the patch in question17:31
darkterror46could someone please tell wich package have stdio.h?17:31
trickielardman: yep for sure17:31
lardmandarkterror46: scratchbox?17:32
trickieill add it to my collectionm17:32
lardmandarkterror46: as in are you using scratchbox?17:32
rm_youlardman: k, dunno if I still get it... about a month ago emails from -devel seem to have stopped arriving17:32
qwerty12darkterror46: libc6-dev:17:32
darkterror46in n811017:32
lardmanas above17:32
darkterror46ok thank you :)17:32
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rm_youI forget, did rotation support require a kernel flash? I think it did17:36
qwerty12It does17:36
jotthm maintaining kernel changes looks like another git use case... :)17:36
rm_youso, if i flash lardman's new SBC kernel, will i retain that?17:36
qwerty12rm_you: I v.much doubt it. If lardman can send me the patch, I'll compile a sbc kernel with rotation in about 10 mins.17:37
lardmanrm_you: no you'll lose it17:38
lardmanqwerty12: try applying that patch you sent me17:38
lardmanjust looks like it was missing the @ @ surrounding the line numbers17:39
rm_youok, see, that's what I was trying to ask earlier :P17:39
qwerty12Will I have to apply by hand? (no objections, I'm used to it :))17:39
lardmanprobably not17:39
lardmanit's a pretty quick patch anyway17:39
rm_youqwerty12: diff -urN17:39
rm_youis that what you use?17:39
lardmandiff -Naur I would use17:40
rm_youonly diff is a17:40
rm_youwhat is a17:40
lardmanno idea :)17:40
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rm_youah treat all files as text17:40
qwerty12For more fun, jott used diff -rup on the rotation patch :P17:40
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jotti thing for c patches p is helpful17:41
jott(-p is --show-c-function)17:41
qwerty12Fanoush used Naur on his last kernel with rotation.17:41
qwerty12Cool, thanks jott17:41
jottu makes it "unified" so it uses the +/- notation instead of < / >17:42
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crashanddiehow do I get gpsd running, without using mapper or Map ?17:46
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lardmancrashanddie: in your own code?17:48
crashanddieno, just console17:48
crashanddieGA asked me to benchmark gpsd power usage, I'm going to let it run and see how long before the battery runs flat17:48
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lardmanjust run it, though you may find it wants some switches, so perhaps best to let Map start it then see what it is called with using ps17:49
jottgpsd power usage? or gps power usage or both?17:50
lardmanX-Fade: I think he's after quick and dirty17:50
jottgps on n810 drains the battery alot..17:50
lardmanwould be good to see how much17:50
crashanddiejott, both in fact17:51
crashanddiehmm, it would seem Map does something else than just calling gpsd17:51
lardmanhow so?17:52
crashanddiecuz using the same command line, I get "gpsd: GPS device /dev/pgp nonexistent or can't be read"17:52
qwerty12Why not just take a quick look in maemo mapper's source?17:52
lardmanoh i see, hence my suggestion that you see what switches it's been called with17:52
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darkterror46looks like libc6-dev must be updated.17:54
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darkterror46i get unmet dependencies. \n libc6-dev: Depends libc6 (=2.5.0-1osso7) but 2.5.0-1osso9 is to be installed17:56
jottand why is this faq not in the wiki? :P17:56
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darkterror46where can i find libc6-dev for 2.5.0-1osso9 ?18:03
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X-Fadedarkterror46: You are setting yourself up for disaster. What are you trying to do?18:07
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qwerty12midgard + slow = pissed off qwerty1218:09
crashanddieOk, I just used the location thingy in settings to get a fix18:10
crashanddiethat keeps gpsd running IIRC, even though it has a location18:10
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crashanddieand a small script which touches a file every minute, so I know when I started, and when the device shut itself down18:11
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lardmancrashanddie: you could telnet to gpsd18:12
crashanddieno, doesn't work18:12
crashanddieit kills you if you're not saying anything for x seconds18:12
lardmancrashanddie: you need a switch to enable it18:12
lardmanhmm, it should just spit out NMEA data continually18:12
crashanddielardman, I wrote a gpsd proxy a while ago18:12
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crashanddieand I had to send some request every 30 seconds18:13
lardmanfair enough18:13
crashanddieor gpsd would kill the connection18:13
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crashanddieplus, any program that would actually use the gpsd data while its running will use as much (if not more) CPU cycles as the window that displays the gps settings now18:14
darkterror46X-Fade: i'm just trying to have gcc working so i can make some c code compilation while on the move18:14
crashanddieso I think it's close enough18:14
crashanddiedarkterror46, ask lcuk, he compiles everything on his n81018:14
qwerty12darkterror46: are you using diablo?18:15
darkterror46well i already have gcc installed i need now the standard c library18:15
darkterror46i'm using diablo18:15
qwerty12are you using the chinook sdk repo?18:15
qwerty12nope, ain't gonna work. give me a sec.18:15
qwerty12 - comment #6 on that page18:16
qwerty12Remove the chinook sdk repo before adding the diablo one.18:16
darkterror46ooopss? :)18:16
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darkterror46ok where can i find the list of diablo repos?18:17
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* qwerty12 debates whether to update for diablo and pimp it up some more.18:19
trickieqwerty12: did someone accept your request at the community kernel project yet?18:20
qwerty12I'm listed as an developer so I guess I was accepted :)18:21
trickiei got a mail... and saw you listed as a developer... but having never used garage before i didn't know if i had to hit save/submit etc or if you already got accepted18:22
vmlinuzquick question, I've read that maemo 2.2 setups have been using scratchbox 1.0.8 whereas the maemo 3.1 scratchbox install uses 1.0.7, shouldn't be using 1.0.8 ?18:22
* jott should also join the kernel hacker crew :>18:24
rm_youThere was supposedly an issue with possible data corruption with the kernel mmc speed patch, but are there actually any reported cases? >_>18:24
qwerty12jott: you should ;) :)18:25
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rm_youI need to learn how to do kernel tasks >_>18:25
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* jott just submitted the application18:27
crashanddievmlinuz, 3.1 is pretty much outdated18:28
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vmlinuzcrashanddie, which one is the more updated? My device is a n77018:34
crashanddieI don't know a lot about 770s, honestly18:36
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qwerty12rm_you: - Diablo kernel. DVFS/"SBC" patch (added in by hand again :P), rotation & 48MHz mmc.18:43
rm_youyou really need to get a proper patch for that :P18:43
vmlinuzanyone? Which is the latest maemo release that has been tested successfully on n770?18:43
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johnxvmlinuz, there is an OS2008HE or hacker edition18:44
johnxit has the same library versions as chinook on the n8x018:44
rm_youI have heard that it is somewhat slow though...18:44
rm_youbut compatibility is probably worth it18:44
jottyeah it seems the most important thing with it, is to enable swap.18:45
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jottit would be nice to have some basic infrastructure for kernel images..18:46
jottlike user assisted postinst scripts that invoke fiasco-flasher18:47
crashanddievmlinuz, btw, it's "770", and "n800", or "n810", not "n770"18:47
jottmight be sufficent to use maemo-confirm-text with some big disclaimer...18:47
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vmlinuzjohnx, I actually reimaged my 770 yesterday, but couldn't connect to wifi nor datacalls with my cell18:48
vmlinuzwith 2008HE that is18:48
vmlinuzI reverted to 2007HE18:48
timelessok, i'm finally filling out the rest of
johnxI don't have a 770, so all I know is what I heard18:49
timelessit turns out my quota was bumped a while ago, and i missed the m[a]emo :)18:49
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vmlinuzrm_you, 2008HE it was slightly slower than 2007HE, I was going to 'take it', but it killed me when I wasn't able to go wireless18:50
jottlike warning mails that your inbox is full which don't reach you just because of that :)18:50
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rm_youvmlinuz: it should not interfere with WIFI, i know a lot of people are using it successfully <_<18:51
rm_youthere may be something else odd there18:51
vmlinuzrm_you, I'll start searching about it, but seems odd since I'm only around 7 feet away from the wireless antenna18:52
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vmlinuzthe signal strenght shows medium to low, but when I try to connect I can't18:52
vmlinuzI noticed also that the config dialog now includes the option to disable the power saving, I tried all of them and still same result18:53
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edistarcan you attach an external gps antenna to the n810?19:14
johnxyou might be able to if you hacked it open and soldered to it (guessing...)19:17
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jottedistar: yes should be possible, but really requires good hardware/solder skills...19:18
edistarjott: ok, thanks19:18
edistarso no socket19:18
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RST38hFolks, could somebody please confirm bug #3359 for openismus guys? They do not appear to believe it exists.19:29
* johnx will check19:29
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lardmanhey lcuk19:30
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johnxRST38h, can't confirm (no bt keyboard), but there is lots of lag with a usb keyboard as well19:31
rm_youjohnx: I need to set up a blank debian/ packaging directory... got a simple way to do that?19:31
darkterror46hi lcuk19:32
rm_youall the tutorials are BS ridiculous19:32
RST38hjohnx: please make a comment on this bug - seed holy fear into their hearts19:32
RST38hrm/you: if you have got bt kbd, comment on bug 335919:32
johnxRST38h, I think lag might not be related to dropped characters though19:32
RST38hor they will close it and it wont get resolved19:33
johnxthe lag seems like it's connected to the word prediction or somesuch, but I'll try again in a sec19:33
RST38hjohnx: try touch typing real fast - bt kbd will lose characters in this case19:33
RST38hprolly buffer overflow in the kbd itself19:33
johnxRST38h, right, and my usb keyboard doesn't seem to, but it does lag painfully19:34
RST38hotoh, usb probabbly has less retransmit issues than bt19:35
johnxI wonder if Nokia does some kind of "clever" bt powersaving19:35
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RST38hgod knows what it is... I can almost believe it is caused by gtk19:37
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johnxoooor, Nokia's modifications to gtk, maybe?19:37
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RST38hjohnx: maybe, but it almost looks like gtk event loop is lagging19:38
rm_youjohnx: what was the user for the diablo repo?19:38
rm_youi remember the password :P19:38
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crashanddieyes ,19:38
* qwerty12 laughs at being the first one to find that file :p19:39
qwerty12yerga: does your hex-a-hop extras package have sound working?19:41
yerganot yet19:41
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yergaI will try add it19:41
qwerty12ah, ok :)19:41
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rm_youthe base64 encoding is just for sending via wbe19:44
rm_youyou can put it in as plaintext19:44
rm_you*sending via web transfer protocols19:44
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johnxRST38h, does it appear more often in a certain app? (the lag / dropout)19:46
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johnxRST38h, for example, I see more lag in notes (which enables the typing prediction) than quicknote (which doesn't)19:48
RST38hjohnx: seems to appear more often when app has more widgets19:48
johnxRST38h, I'm assuming microb is the worst?19:49
RST38hjohnx: xchat config windows are the worst19:49
RST38hprediction can be turned off from settings panel though...19:49
* johnx tests19:49
johnxno dropped chars, lots of lag19:49
johnxsometimes it's a whole word behind when I'm typing as fast as I can19:50
RST38heven with prediction off?19:50
johnxprediction is on19:50
RST38hyea, sounds familiar19:50
RST38htry turning it off19:50
johnxok, at most 2 letters behind at full typing speed19:53
johnxno dropped chars19:53
johnxI think this is a whole lot of issues that appear to be connected but aren't necessarily19:53
johnxand a BT keyboard should have a pretty big buffer I would think.19:53
RST38hso it is prediction?19:54
RST38hit tries predicting even although you cant make use of it?19:54
Stskeepsjohnx: how did you make usb host work again?19:54
mgedminlcuk: have you booked a hotel yet?19:54
johnxStskeeps, I loaded g_file_storage with the same params as it had in /usr/sbin/ (sp?)19:55
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Stskeepsta - i will just pass that on to Capn_Fish then19:55
johnxRST38h, it predicts and I type through it anyways, but it's wasting time predicting19:55
johnxRST38h, I might try bumping to "performance" settings to see if that helps.19:56
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RST38hwhere are the performance settings?19:56
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johnxRST38h, I mean the cpufreq scaling_governor19:57
johnxforcing the CPU to 400MHz instead of letting it scale19:57
* RST38h has not played with that19:57
johnxSeems to reduce lag a bit...but it's hard to be consistent on this small keyboard19:57
johnxI can't tell if I might just be typing slower sometimes19:57
RST38hif possible, make comment about prediction slowing things in that bug19:58
RST38hprediction should not apply to ext keyboards anyway19:58
* johnx shrugs. it was probably just easier to do it for all this way and let users turn it off19:59
johnxand if it wasn't an option someone would scream and complain that they wanted it for some reason20:00
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RST38hI dont think nokia expected anyone to use tablets with ext keyboard20:02
johnxbut they provided the option for a long time...20:03
crashanddiejohnx, on gmail (in microb), I know that I usually have such a lag that even with the builtin keyboard (n810), I'm usually a paragraph or two ahead of what's on screen20:03
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johnxcrashanddie, good. I'll test that too20:03
johnxsetting performance makes a big difference20:04
crashanddieyeah, it does20:04
johnxI went back to ondemand and noticed lots more lag20:04
crashanddieI'm almost always in performance now20:04
johnxme too :/20:04
crashanddiethe gps doesn't seem to drain that much from the battery, actually20:05
crashanddieit's been running for 2 hours straight, and the battery manager still tells me 6 hours of uptime20:05
johnxwell, it's been known to lie...20:05
crashanddieyeah, that's why I'm running this benchmark :P20:06
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crashanddieI'll do 2 other tests after this one20:06
crashanddieso that we can have a good estimation20:06
RST38hcrash: have you got an ext keyboard?20:07
crashanddienot atm20:07
crashanddiebut I can get to one, yeah, why ?20:07
RST38hcrash: comment on bug 335920:08
crashanddielink ?20:08
RST38hcrash: because nokia devs appear to think there is no laf20:08
RST38hcrash: I am on a phone. It is and search for bug 335920:09
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Maximanderis there any way to prevent the auto-capitalization on an input field?20:09
johnxMaximander, turn it off?20:09
johnxit's in input settings under language20:09
MaximanderI mean, like, in an application that contains said input field20:10
johnxjust for that app but not the whole system?20:10
rm_youhow do you do regular expressions for multiple strings?20:10
crashanddiejohnx & RST38h: today I'll get down to the store, and ask to test a few keyboards, I'll note the references of each keyboard down, and the results20:10
infobotcrashanddie meant: s/tomorrow/tomorrow20:11
RST38hcrash: !!20:11
johnxahaha :P20:11
qwerty12For the middle button in the up,down, left, right butttons on N800, which is the correct one: SDLK_ENTER or SDLK_RETURN?20:11
johnxcrashanddie, that would be great crashanddie :)20:11
rm_yousay I want to find out if a file contains the words "today" OR "tomorrow"20:11
hrwqwerty12: run xev and check?20:11
Maximanderjohnx: how do I turn off auto-capitalization for a GtkEntry field?20:11
RST38hreturn afaik20:11
rm_youdo i have to use grep TWICE, as grep "today", grep "tomorrow"?20:11
hrwrm_you: rgrep "today|tomorrow" file20:11
qwerty12hrw: it returns return, just not sure20:11
qwerty12RST38h: great, thanks20:11
RST38hnokia screwed up when it made qwerty enter NkpReturn20:12
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hrwRST38h: and when right shift returns LShift20:12
johnxMaximander, aaah, so you're writing the app. Hmm, I would check the source for modest maybe. I think it has a couple fields in the setup wizard with the auto-caps off20:12
RST38hhrw: that sucks but a bit less20:12
RST38hand using F-keys for hw buttons sucks too20:13
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crashanddiejohnx, actually, I have this awesome fake press tag, which makes the store very nice to me when I say I'm writing a review :P20:13
hrwRST38h: they should use F30+ range20:13
RST38hwhat prevented them from defining oem button codes?20:13
hrwRST38h: no idea20:13
RST38hthey do it on symbian all the time20:13
hrwRST38h: but I like F4-F8 set which they use as it makes them easier to use in qemu20:13
crashanddieanyway, back later, cheers20:14
RST38hhrw: yea, only they are all over the device:)20:14
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iDSMPlayer v1.0rc1-maemo.29.n8x0  is  available now :D20:16
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iDSsomeone is still test it!20:16
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rm_youeasy way to make grep not find itself in "ps | grep blah"?20:17
rm_youi suppose i could do an extra "| grep -v grep"20:17
Maximanderhildon_gtk_entry_set_input_mode(pw, HILDON_GTK_INPUT_MODE_FULL);20:17
Maximandercan anyone explain that?20:18
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lcddrm_you: use "grep foo$" instead of "grep foo" if you can20:18
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lcddrm_you: $ matches end of line, not the $ sign itself which shows up in ps20:19
rm_youah right20:19
rm_younot working for some reason tho even though it IS at the end of the line >_> which is odd20:19
Makeghodoes n810 have enough cpu power to do simple per pixel graphics in 800x480 mode with SDL, updating every pixel once a frame with a clever fps rate?20:20
forgeShould do20:20
mgedminwell, depends on your desired fps rate20:20
mgedminit can't do full-screen video at 30fps, iirc20:20
rm_youi thought the problem was not CPU but LCD bus bandwidth20:21
mgedminah, considering only the cpu?20:21
mgedminno idea, why don't you do some benchmarks? ;-)20:21
Makeghono, considering everything :)20:21
Makeghofps should be over 2520:21
rm_younot going to work then, most probably20:21
Makeghotoo bad20:22
rm_youbecause of the bandwidth of the graphics bus20:22
rm_youyou can get away with 400x240 with pixel doubling easily20:22
rm_youand it still looks very nice20:22
rm_youbecause the screen has such high DPI20:22
mgedminwatch liqbase videos for what's possible20:22
Makeghocould take a look at that maybe20:22
lcddrm_you: the busybox ps adds space to the end on each line. weird20:22
johnxhowever, some people like lcuk have done some really clever stuff to get fullscreen display at high framerates20:22
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johnxbut not RGB data, he uses YUV instead, IIRC20:22
rm_youlcdd: lol annoying. whatev, not really an option in my script anyway, am searching for things not necessarily at the end of the linee20:23
rm_youthanks tho20:23
johnxlcuk is the author of liqbase20:23
Makeghooh my, I forgot I don't have a devenv :) maybe I need to set up one then.20:26
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lcukjohnx, yes i do20:29
* lcuk likes doin really clever stuff20:29
lcukmgedmin, not yet20:30
Makeghowhat kind of stuff have you done? :)20:30
lcuki said why yesterday, but now flight arrangments are cleared i will do later on20:30
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lcuklardman, i wasnt even here when i signed back in :S20:32
rm_youhow do I capture the return value of a command in a bash script?20:32
lcuklardman|gone, ill speak to your about sdl later20:33
mgedmin$?, iirc20:33
* lcuk has a lot of catching up to do and not much time20:33
Makeghois there az way in n810 to open a youtube link so that it runs fast enough?20:33
rm_youbut in a bash script, will that be reliable if I do a command, then next like check $?20:33
henriquelcuk, cool!20:33
rm_youmight $? change if other things are happening in the background?20:33
johnxMakegho, can mytube accept links?20:33
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lcukMakegho, yes there is some youtube viewer which downloads and opens in mplayer or something20:33
Makeghocanola2 has search but it can't open links I think20:34
MakeghoI'll check it out20:34
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lcukok, what should i tell my missus: im leaving her tonight.   me and kylie are gonna elope20:34
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lcukhenrique, i think so as well :)20:35
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pupnikso long and thanks for all the f...'?20:37
pupnikwith apologies to Douglas Adams20:37
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Stskeepsimplying anything is fishy or fish-smelling is bound to get you slapped, with women20:37
qwerty12_N800talking from experience? :p20:38
lcukwho slaps you with women, most people use a hand20:38
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* qwerty12_N800 hasn't read manchester news for a *long* time. last i read was the story of that manchester police man putting himself in the tumble dryer20:41
lcukthat was a fireman wasnt it?20:41
lcuklol still facepalmish20:41
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GeneralAntillesIt's a clone of the threads I get on itT all the time on -users.20:47
johnxGeneralAntilles, what is it this time?20:47
rm_youHow can I make a deb mark its own install as FAILED in postinst?20:48
rm_youso that dpkg will note it as failed install and rollback20:48
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GeneralAntillesMark needs to get off the list already.20:49
GeneralAntillesHe spends an awful lot of time being an idiot on there for somebody who claims he doesn't have time to file bugs.20:50
jottrm_you: if you return from postinst with an errorcode it will fail..20:50
rm_youjott: ah right :P20:50
sp3000why must modest's "localized" Re: and quote headings be so embarrassing20:50
sp3000at least it's ok for reading :\20:51
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sp3000maybe I should put apologies in a signature20:51
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sp3000for broken threading from no in-reply-to combined with creative subject mangling on reply :(20:52
johnxGeneralAntilles, it turns out that a lot of the time RTFM isn't the response you want but it is the advice you need20:53
lcukwe need a GeneralAntilles_bot20:53
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lcukOMG what am i to do20:53
lcukPardon me for not having the pleasure of knowing your mindset before making you this offer and it is utterly confidential and genuine by virtue of its nature.20:53
lcukI write to solicit your assistance in a funds transfer  deal involving US$ 3.5M.This fund has been stashed out of the excess profit made last year by my branch office the International Commercial Bank which I am the manager.20:53
qwerty12_N800pay him!20:54
sp3000let him have the pleasure of knowing your mindset in relation to the offer?20:54
GeneralAntilles^ == spam hell20:54
johnxecho your-post.txt | grep "I googled" || echo RTFM20:55
lcuk:D "go feck yourself with a broomstick?"20:55
lcukGeneralAntilles, its not spam, its unsolicited commercial offerings for my benefit20:55
GeneralAntillesIt will be spam if you reply to it.20:56
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pupniklcuk do you know of this 'Kthool-Hoo'?20:56
aquatixpupnik: :)20:57
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lcukpupnik, should i?20:57
pupnikbtw that 'David Ehi' spambaiting is only findable on afaict20:57
pupniklcuk - perhaps the funniest spam baiting i've ever read (a hobby of some practised to waste the spammer/scammer's time)20:58
aquatixlcuk: it's written differnelty ;)20:58
lcukahhh another baiter20:58
aquatixspaghetti monster++20:58
pupnikit's a long exchange but worth it... maybe i should post it somewhere again20:59
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aquatixpupnik: ah, that story archived on the internet archive?20:59
aquatixpupnik: very funny indeed20:59
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sjgadsbyArgh. Must reboot again. Rotten computer.21:00
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jottthere is also http:/ for scambaiting ;p21:02
Blasturhey! anyone made any progress in the weird powerdrainage of diablo?21:02
Makeghojohnx: cool, mytube did the job pretty well :)21:03
johnxMakegho, good to hear. I should reinstall it :)21:03
Blasturhey johnx!21:03
Blasturdid you make those power scripts yet?21:03
johnxpower scripts?21:03
Blasturi'd like to run em and see what happens on my n810 :)21:03
RST38hpupnik: got a bt kbd?21:03
johnxaaah, got distracted21:03
Blasturyeah, last time i was in here, you talked about making some scripts that logged the power usage at any given time21:03
pupnikyes but it only wants to pair with 770 RST38h21:04
pupnikcan I test smth for you?21:04
johnxBlastur, I got completely distracted with other stuff. I'll try and remember this time21:04
RST38hpupnik: just wanted to ask you to comment on bug 335921:04
Blasturhehe, its no problem really.. maybe i should give it a try myself21:04
Blasturim just not so familiar with the Maemo SDK21:05
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alp_Loverhi good morning21:05
Blasturhey man21:05
alp_LoverIs here any room for Access linux platform(ALP)21:06
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alp_Loverany body help please21:06
johnxBlastur, no need for the SDK. I was just gonna write an sh script to tie battery-status, top and maybe sysstat together so they all logged to the same file21:06
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alp_LoverALP programming discussion room!!21:07
johnxalp_Lover, I don't know of one. Is there even a public release of ALP?21:07
Blasturi dont even know what ALP is :)21:08
RST38halp: APL programming?21:08
alp_LoverEmbeded linux21:08
Blasturi think maybe he refers to this:
qwerty12_N800Access linux platform(ALP)21:08
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alp_Loverhere can get information21:09
Blasturand i think maybe maemo isn't really based on ALP, is it?21:09
GNUtonHi there21:09
Blasturhey alp_Lover, have you looked in Qtopia or Openmoko platform?21:09
Blasturmaybe as an alternative i mean21:09
Blasturi hear they are very active in development right now21:09
RST38hhello, gnuton. got an ext keynoard?21:10
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alp_Loverpreviously i worked in maemo21:10
Blasturoh, okay.. what made you abandon ship?21:10
alp_Loverfor that i m here to get some help21:11
GNUtonRST38h: keyboard? :P no :)21:11
alp_Loverno no .. that was my simple university project21:11
RST38hgnuton: too bad :)21:12
GNUtonRST38h: :)21:13
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johnxalp_Lover, does ALP run natively on any real devices? or just inside an emulator?21:14
GNUtonRST38h: how are you? I´m just waked up... :)21:14
* GeneralAntilles facepalms @
Makeghowhat's the dpi of n810 screen?21:14
alp_Loverinside an emulator21:14
johnxMakegho, ~220, IIRC21:14
Makeghook, thanks :)21:14
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aquatixGeneralAntilles: wow, extensive page! ;)21:15
GeneralAntillesI should probably stop that before it picks up too much inertia21:16
GeneralAntillesI'm just too lazy to go and add all those pages to that category.21:16
*** mgedmin changes topic to " | Diablo Released! | | Maemo Summit: | Create the new logo: | Help fix the Wiki Page of the day for July 6th: | logs at"21:17
alp_Loverwhen i locate a file to show i m getting  "gtk warning : too many folders to open"21:19
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alp_Loverhow can i remove this warning . anybody help pls21:19
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X-Fadealp_Lover: What are you trying to open?21:21
X-Fadealp_Lover: And can it be that you point at some place where there are in fact a lot of folders?21:21
alp_Loveran image file fro file system21:22
alp_Loverlite /user/..../icon.jpeg21:22
RST38hgnuton: somewhat alive, thanks21:22
X-Fadealp_Lover: Is that path ending in a symlink perhaps?21:23
jottGNUton: hey i saw you imported the qgtkstyle into the svn..21:23
GNUtonjott:  Yes.. and now you can update the qgtkstyle source! :)21:23
alp_Loverwhat is symlink21:23
GeneralAntillesAha, Quim's got the perfect plan for a barrier-to-entry for Bugzilla tracking for Garage projects.21:24
* RST38h has got a few releses pending, if binary uploads to extras work of course21:24
jottGNUton: we really should consider using git :/21:24
GNUtonjott: I´m going to build and put in the repository a snapshot of hildonized Qt every weekends..21:24
X-FadeQuestion: do we see any benefit to have the qt4 experimental stuff in extras-devel? :)21:25
alp_Loverjohnx: thanks21:25
RST38hxfade: is there any reason not to?21:26
GNUtonjott: I used git (in local) the last summer, however using git means change server... and chhange a lot of things... :(21:26
X-FadeRST38h: That was a U-bend question aimed at GNUton  ;)21:26
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GNUtonX-Fade: Probably yes, but at moment the code and the package is very "unstable".21:28
jottGNUton: yes i realize this, on the other hand we are currently forking upstream projects..21:28
jottand svn is really bad for managing forks21:28
alp_Loverx-fade: ya its symbolic link21:28
X-FadeGNUton: I'm only worried about introducing updated dependencies you might use..21:28
X-FadeGNUton: Which would then spread into the autobuilder.21:29
fnordianslipHi all.  Just built a custom kernel, but wondered if I should have tried to rebuild the stock kernel first and checked it somehow (MD5?) before getting adventurous.  I guess the risk in flashing a broken kernel is low, right?21:29
X-FadeGNUton: But on the other hand, it would help people porting QT4 apps already!21:29
johnxfnordianslip, if you're just flashing the kernel there's basically no risk21:29
jottX-Fade: does the autobuilder use qemu? if yes, which version?21:30
fnordianslipok.  cool - I'll jump in the deep end then.21:30
X-Fadejott: Plain sdk versions.21:30
jottso 0.8.2-sb2 or cvs-m?21:31
fnordianslipah, what will flashing the kernel do to my boot menu? I have diablo on the internal SD too.21:31
melmothHola X-Fade .21:31
GNUtonX-Fade: yeah, moving the code in extra-build not is a bad idea...21:31
jotti tried building an optimized qt4 and the 0.8.2 failed for me with sig11 :/21:32
melmothX-Fade: remember the sword autobuild issue ? I created a bug a week ago. It is still unassigned.21:32
penguinbait<fnordianslip> nothing21:32
fnordianslipthats good then. cheers.21:32
X-Fadejott: Although there might be a fixed one to fix a 'sem_post:21:32
X-FadeFunction not implemented' error.21:32
melmothAny idea what to expect as far as having this issue handled ?21:32
X-Fademelmoth: All you have is the community and me at the moment :)21:33
GNUtonX-Fade: I removed the updated dependencies (such as libread5 ...), the only update dependecie is "findutils" packages.21:33
X-Fademelmoth: As both the experts are on vacation..21:33
jottX-Fade: sbox has a cvs-m version, which seems to work better for me21:33
melmothX-Fade: do you know when they are back ?21:33
jott(and you can't use upstream qemu as sbox needs some patches)21:33
* GNUton tired..21:33
X-Fadejott: I haven't setup the actual autobuilder, so I don't know exactly.21:33
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jottwe'll just curious21:34
X-Fademelmoth: 2 weeks, I think.21:34
jottstill have to do some benchmarks and see if it really matters..21:34
X-Fademelmoth: The weird thing is that it doesn't happen to anybody else.21:34
X-Fademelmoth: So I am thinking that it is something with your packaging/interaction with the autobuilder.21:35
X-Fademelmoth: Did you try lintian on your package?21:36
melmothno, i did not. good idea21:36
melmotheven if it s in my packaging (i do not know debian that much), i woudl expect the autobuilder to give the same result on both arch.21:36
melmothin the local sdk, both result are the same21:37
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melmothbut lintian thingy is a good idea21:37
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JamieBennetthey all21:37
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X-Fademelmoth: Yeah, it can be that something triggers a bug in the autobuilder. But who knows :)21:38
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jottGNUton: haven't checked the source yet, but is the qgtkstyle a direct import from the tt svn or did you apply some patches?21:43
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rm_youwhat does dpkg run after removing a package? like, after installing it runs the postinst... is it postrm?21:48
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* rm_you is still really bad at debian packaging21:48
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jottyes postrm21:48
mgedminthere's also preinst and prerm21:49
rm_youoh, so how do I set that if you install this package X, dpkg will need to remove package Y?21:50
rm_youI don't want "conflicts" because that will just keep it from being installed... i want dpkg to just go ahead and start the removing21:50
jottthere is also "Replaces"21:50
mgedmin describes them all21:51
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jott^^ and there you find the "control" file fields..21:52
melmothX-Fade: well, there are some warnings
melmothdoes the one occuring in line 35 ,3è and 38 ring a bell ?21:53
melmothmost probably because i did not bother puting stuff in the debian way location21:53
fnordiansliphmm.  my custom kernel borked and i guess i need to reflash the stock one. will the flasher tool (flasher-2.0.macosx) extract the kernel from the diablo .bin file (perhaps by magic), or do i have to build the stock one myself?21:54
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jottfnordianslip: you can extract the kernel from the fiasco image21:54
jottor flash it alone21:54
infobotL4-compatible real-time microkernel capable of running Linux in usermode. URL:
jottmhh no21:55
jottwhat ever ;)21:55
* jott pokes infobot in the eye21:55
jotti hoped infobot would point to a nice site ;)21:55
fnordianslipi only want to flash the stick kernel back.  might as well build it from source though, to check out the build process.21:56
X-Fademelmoth: Yeah, maybe fixing those will help. But it doesn't look too promising?21:56
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fnordiansliper, stock, no stick, but perhaps still sick21:56
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GNUtonjott: The QGTKStyle present in the Qt4 SVN is the same revision of the QGTKStyle package. I didn´t applied any patches.21:59
jottfnordianslip: just use the flasher and use --flash-only or extract the fiasco image and use -k  .. just read the options..21:59
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jottGNUton: ok22:00
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fnordianslipjott: ok.  thanks.  may as well build it from source anyhow.  doesn't take too long and I'll have more faith in the process afterwards.22:00
jottfnordianslip: sure go ahead ;)22:01
jottGNUton: unfortunately jensbw hasn't replied yet to my mail...22:01
fnordianslipjott: its the custom config part thats the drag22:02
melmothX-Fade: i doubt any of those error have anything to do with the issue (i may be wrong though).22:02
jottfnordianslip: yeah well if you are unsure try to manually build the "vanilla" nokia kernel..22:02
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fnordianslipbuilt, just about to flash it.22:03
melmoththe thing is, i m not that excited by the idea of having to make a debian ok package just to realise it s something else.22:03
melmothWould cost me a week end. Giving up and just creating a third party repo would cost me an hour or so.. tempting :)22:03
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melmothplus the maemo policy actually is much more cool about file location than debian22:04
GNUtonjott: :(22:04
GeneralAntillesmelmoth, prepare to be flamed if you create another repository. ;)22:05
GNUtonjott: what was the problem?22:05
rm_youwhy is the .postrm being run TWICE22:05
melmothI know that GeneralAntilles.22:05
GNUtonjott: adding the "maemo_changes" in QGTKSTYLE?22:05
melmothwe'll see if the autobuild expert can help me when they are back. But if its as a voodoo issue for them as it is for me.then third party repo it ll be.22:06
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jottGNUton: no that is one thing, i just wonder on how to proceed with my outstanding patches etc.22:06
jottGNUton: as the code currently is in a closed trolltech svn..22:07
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jottand i might do some bigger changes at some places..22:07
jottGNUton: comboboxes seem to work nice btw, atleast under hildon. not tested on the desktop yet ;)22:09
GNUtonjott: great news. :)22:09
GNUtonjott: do you knowif the style handle also the trigger of the submenues?22:10
jottthere are not many major widgets left22:10
jottmh no styles basically paint and might return properties22:10
jott(i.e. delays)22:11
GNUtonFor example the motif style popup the the submenues if clicked and not higlighted.22:11
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jottthis might be an property..22:12
GNUtonjott: Yes I thnk, but I was unable to find this property O_o22:12
jottmight look here22:13
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jottthere are things like "QStyle::SH_Menu_SpaceActivatesItem"22:13
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rm_youok, so I figured out a way to install the -unlocked package that is correct for the distro22:17
rm_youfor the hardware22:17
jottGNUton: still not really sure what you are really after .. otherwise poke in #qt ;)22:18
rm_youbut... it is a little bit of a hack22:18
rm_youqwerty12_N800: read your PM for your main box22:18
qwerty12_N800rm_you, wiil do, ta22:18
rm_youhere is the only problem: you have to install it first by itself, THEN install other packages22:19
jottheh yeah well that's an obvious solution ;p22:19
rm_younot as nice as i would like (ie, apt-get install osso-software-version-unlocked some-system-package)22:20
jottunlock-me-rx44 :P22:20
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, hrm, too old MySLQ? Any plans to upgrade?22:20
rm_youjott: no22:20
rm_youit's generic22:20
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Ofcourse :)22:20
rm_youhere is a demo22:20
GNUtonjott: what does "poke" mean?  :P22:20
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: We have already asked the ISP, but it will take some time.22:20
GNUtonis it slang?22:20
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, damn the ISP. . . . :P22:21
jottGNUton: yes i suppose so :)22:21
GNUtonjott: ok it´s not a german word so :P22:21
johnxliterally it means to poke someone with your finger22:21
johnxsynomyms: jab, stab22:22
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johnxseems to have become slang for "get someone's attention as if you jabbed your finger into their ribs." :)22:23
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khertan_Hi !22:27
qwerty12_N800Ello khertan22:27
khertan_Hello johnx and qwerty12_N80022:28
rm_youjott / qwerty12_N800:
rm_youtest and tell me if you think it will be sufficient22:28
khertan_i ve finnaly successfully get dpkg-buildpackage on my n81022:28
rm_youi still am not entirely happy with the way it works22:28
rm_youbut it DOES work22:28
GeneralAntillesHrm, specify that as a dependency for the rotation-support package and it'll work?22:28
rm_youthat's the problem22:28
qwerty12_N800i would like to try but i'm already using -unlocked22:28
rm_youyou can't install it at the same time22:28
qwerty12_N800khertan_, great :)22:29
rm_youso it won't work in deps22:29
rm_youso essentially, it only helps make manually installing -unlocked slightly easier for noobs22:29
rm_youi'm still brainstorming22:29
rm_youi think I might be able to do it if i can do the debian deps/replaces/conflicts magic right22:29
khertan_qwerty12_N800: no i ll can do some real debian package fully compliant, and make a new version of pypackager22:30
GNUtonjott: Are you working on QGTKStyle or are you waiting a reply from the trolltech guy?22:31
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jottGNUton: i continue work atm. i did another approach now and it seems fine.22:32
jottneeds some more proof-reading before going public..22:32
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GNUtonjott: ok :) good.22:32
jotti guess i'll start commiting the stuff in the qt4-maemo svn for now.22:33
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jottmight still be an option to register a git repo...22:33
jott(like )22:33
GNUtonAbsolutely perfect!22:34
X-Fadejott: Or just git-svn to commit your master branch?22:34
jottX-Fade: yeah also an option22:34
rm_youi need someone who still is using the locked osso-software-version22:35
X-Fadejott: There seem to be quite a few people going that route.22:35
jottX-Fade: problem is we currently have two branches ;)22:35
X-Fadejott: Well, you can do that too..22:35
X-Fadejott: svn has branch support, you know ;)22:35
jotti.e. the qt4 svn mixed with qgtkstyle svn22:35
GNUtonjott: however I think that having the  code in garage is the best option.22:35
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jottGNUton: yes garage is nearest to the community22:36
GNUtonjott: what do you think about?22:36
GNUtonjott: ok :)22:36
jottbut having a public git branch would be nice too, so other people can grab the patches..22:36
GNUtonif you are able to setup it, you are welcome!22:37
jotti think supports direct svn import.. not sure about it..22:37
jottbut a garage git would be the best :)22:37
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X-Fadejott: File an enhancement request ;) But don't count on a quick implementation. As it will be quite some work to integrate it.22:38
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jottGNUton: oh and are you sure it's good to integrate the qgtkstyle directly into qt4?22:38
khertan_is there a maemo compiled version of svn ?22:38
khertan_to be able to upload from tablet ?22:39
rm_youANYONE still using the locked osso-software-version?22:39
GNUtonjott: I asked on Qt, and strange but seems that it´s not possible change the beaviour of the QMenu.. mmm22:39
X-Faderm_you: Me ;)22:39
rm_youprobably if you don't know what osso-software-version-unlocked is...22:39
rm_youX-Fade: be my test case :P22:39
GeneralAntillesAnybody have a link handy to guided submission form for Bugzilla?22:39
khertan_what is the locked osso-software-version ? (it s probably my case)22:39
GNUtonjott: of course. Why not?22:39
rm_youX-Fade: pretty please :P22:39
jottGNUton: it would allow separate release cycles22:39
GeneralAntilleskhertan_, have you installed the -unlocked version?22:40
GeneralAntillesThen you have the locked one. ;)22:40
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GeneralAntillesIt's the default22:40
GeneralAntillesDependencies are == rather than the >22:40
X-Faderm_you: Sure, but not today. 13 hours of maemo today is enough ;)22:40
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GeneralAntilles= in unlocked22:40
rm_youX-Fade: awwwwwwww22:40
khertan_osso-software-version-rx44 est déjà la plus récente version disponible.22:41
rm_youX-Fade: it'll be for awesome tho, i promise :P22:41
khertan_locked in which way ?22:41
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GNUtonjott: I asked to Trolltech, and probably the QGTKStyle should be merged in Qt in november with Qt 4.5.22:41
jottGNUton: hm i see..22:41
jottthis would imply that they might not take my patches :/22:42
GNUtonjott: don´t worry!22:42
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GNUtonjott: their code is not always bug free! :)22:43
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Can you look at this bugzilla spam?
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GNUtonand it´s not always the best.. so you have to trust in yourself!22:43
GeneralAntillesHa, awesome.22:43
jottGNUton: it's not about bug-free but about qpl vs gpl ..:/22:43
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I searched for guide ;)22:43
GNUtonjott: you can release your conde with the BSD license :P22:44
jottGNUton: yeah. i suppose..22:44
jottanyway, i hope i get some response from jens, this will sort out all this things i guess..22:44
GNUtonjott:  I understand22:45
rm_youit might work!22:46
GNUtonjott: I can pray for you (and for jens) :P22:46
rm_youGeneralAntilles: It might work!22:46
rm_youqwerty12_N800: it might work!22:46
rm_youcan't test tho22:46
rm_youas I need to find someone with locked who is willing to test22:46
jottheh i could always fork :P22:46
rm_youand knows what they're doing22:46
* qwerty12_N800 crosses me fingers22:46
GNUtonjott: yeah! :)22:47
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rm_youactually to test REALLY, it needs to be put into a repository22:48
rm_youand then need to make a package that a) requires it, and b) replaces something that would make the locked one complain22:48
rm_youand try installing that package22:48
rm_youso i will need help testing22:49
rm_youqwerty12_N800: can you make your xomap package a higher version and Requires: osso-software-version-unlocked ?22:49
GeneralAntillesI nominate qwerty12_N800! :P22:49
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rm_youand then i need some random testing repo to shove those two in22:50
qwerty12_N800i could, but not until 7:00AM BST :p22:50
rm_youyou gone?22:50
RST38hHey, rm_you, are you there?22:50
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RST38hrm_you: What do you think of faking an iPhone AppStore? =)22:51
rm_youlike, writing up a clone?22:51
RST38hrm_you: No, seriously =)22:51
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rm_youor, making something that fakes one and takes people'22:51
rm_youpeople's money? :P22:51
RST38hrm_you: Well, like most Apple products appstore is basically all UI22:51
RST38hrm_you: We can put together a similar UI and place it on top of PackRat22:52
rm_youso basically... a new application-manager?22:52
rm_youwith a better UI22:52
RST38hrm_you: Prolly not very useful but will produce decent wow-factor22:52
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rm_youthat looks like iPhone22:52
RST38hrm_you: Well, we can't do full app-manager on the web22:52
rm_youyou mean web22:53
rm_youwith just .install?22:53
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RST38hrm_you: But yes, we can make a set of web pages that let people install apps and LOOK like iPhone22:53
rm_youI was thinking the iPhone iStore on-device22:53
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rm_youit is an app on the iPhone isnt it?22:53
RST38hrm_you: That would be nice but it is too involved and I don't think there will be any users22:53
qwerty12_N800rm_you, if you can put osso-software-version-unlocked in diablo extras-devel, i'll upload an rotation xserver-xomap tomorrow to -devel.22:53
RST38hit is22:53
rm_youqwerty12_N800: if i am wrong, this has the potential to be very bad22:53
GeneralAntillesRST38h, rm_you, push the Application manager community-branch instead. :P22:54
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rm_youqwerty12_N800: would rather do it somewhere in a repo only i can access :P22:54
rm_youGeneralAntilles: yeah, that was what i was just gonna say22:54
RST38hGA: Don't want to touch it. It is a Nokia application. Nokia does what it wants with it22:54
rm_younot the community branch22:54
rm_youthat's why it's... a community branch22:54
GeneralAntillesUh, RST38h, you do realize they WANT a community branch, right?22:54
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RST38hGA: Yes, some people in Nokia want a community branch22:55
GeneralAntillesGet with Marius, figure out a proposal and go, go, go!22:55
qwerty12_N800rm_you, i'll create an source package, upload to your own repo and test away :p22:55
RST38hGA: But look at it this way:22:55
RST38hGA: On one hand, implementing a good app manager requires A LOT of time and it is not only the apple-like UI22:55
rm_youqwerty12_N800: ok.... any chances i can get the source NOW so i can test? :P22:55
rm_youhow long till you will be able to help?22:55
rm_youi'm not a patient person :P22:56
RST38hGA: On the other hand, probability of people actually using this stuff, especially to release commercial apps through it is NIL22:56
qwerty12_N800rm_you, haha, wait a min22:56
rm_youi want to get this done while i am focused... if i lose focus, i may not start working on it again :P22:56
RST38hGA: And, finally, I have got a job and many other projects22:56
qwerty12_N800sorry, 5 mins :p22:56
RST38h(like VGB I spend several hours on today)22:56
GeneralAntillesRST38h, why would they have to specifically cater to the community branch?22:56
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GeneralAntillesThe idea is to have a different front-end on the same backend.22:57
GeneralAntillesSo it'd be completely transparent to the user and packagers.22:57
GeneralAntillesAnyway, whatever.22:57
RST38hGA: Yes, but weight all the above factors22:57
RST38hAnd you will see what I mean22:57
RST38hNow, putting an iPhone-like UI on top of PackRat will take much less time, will not require to wrestle backend details from Nokia, and will produce immediate wow effect22:58
GeneralAntillesRST38h, what details? It's APT and open source.22:58
RST38h+ there is an added benefit of [maybe] creating a light javascript library for MicroB22:59
qwerty12_N800rm_you, apply on and ensure you use xrandr from here to compile in diablo_sdk:
RST38hGA: So, basicall, you are proposing to create one more apt-get wrapper with Apple like UI?22:59
fnordianslipi need to debug my dodgy kernel which adds AX.25 support.  the tablet keels over after about 30 secs on the home screen.  i can use the stock kernel for post-mortems.  i guess there's a sysklogd package for diablo or something.  is that the best bet for figuring out what's up?23:00
RST38hWell, personally, I am ok with the current app manager23:00
GeneralAntillesWhatever, I don't really care at the moment.23:00
GeneralAntillesI need to get on the road.23:00
RST38hgood luck23:00
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* johnx wonders if there is value in a quick gdebi compile23:01
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johnxit takes a .deb and tracks down the deps with apt while displaying a nice simple UI23:01
* qwerty12_N800 already tried. but i cannot deny i tried really hard23:02
qwerty12_N800*i didnt try23:02
johnx"I can neither confirm nor deny that statement."23:02
rm_youqwerty12_N800: what do you mean, make sure to use this xrandr?23:03
rm_youcan i just have it installed via apt-get in scratchbox?23:03
qwerty12_N800should work.23:03
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zapRST38h: are you going to push fmsx into maemo-extras?23:08
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Maximanderdoes anyone know about "EAC mode: play disabled, rec disabled" messages in dmsg?23:10
MaximanderI'm having some problems with a usb device, and i'm trying to figure out if it's hardware or software, but that's all that's in dmesg23:10
johnxMaximander, those messages are normal. what's the problem?23:11
Maximandereh, I'm talking to a serial device and i keep timing out23:12
Maximandernot sure where the problem is yet23:12
johnxthat's interesting. do you think it might be power related?23:12
Maximanderno, don't think so23:13
Maximanderunfortunately, gdb on maemo doesn't appear to be too good with threads23:13
Maximanderi'm suspicious of the threading library23:13
Maximanderpthread condition wait to be specific23:13
johnxsorry, that's beyond me. anyways, I need to get some sleep before the sun comes up. :) 'night all23:15
qwerty12_N800'night johnx23:15
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rm_youqwerty12_N800: ok23:23
rm_youqwerty12_N800: seems like it might work23:23
rm_youbut need to test with a tablet without either the -unlocked software-version or the xserver-xomap with rotation23:24
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rm_youX-Fade: eh? eh? :P23:30
rm_youyou get rotation support in the deal :P23:30
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rm_youdeb diablo free non-free23:39
rm_youdoesnt exist23:39
rm_youdeb chinook free non-free23:39
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crashanddiedows ? :D23:41
fnordianslipcan i mount my internal flash when booted from the SD card?  i've left a log file on it.23:44
fnordianslipon n800 diablo23:44
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rm_youIT WORKS!23:49
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rm_youIT WORKS23:50
rm_youjott: IT WORKS23:50
rm_youyou can now make packages that will break the locked osso-software-version install perfectly23:50
rm_youjust make them depend on "osso-software-version-unlocked"23:50
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rm_youI will put it it in extras-devel23:51
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RST38bismoo, all23:51
rm_youthe only problem still left is that it... well... going back is not really possible23:53
rm_youat least automatically23:53
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rm_youbut that is a problem with the way the locked/unlocked thing works, not really my package23:54
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