IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2008-07-14

burntethat'll teach you to steal a tardis00:00
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GeneralAntillesOh, andre___, I've got an incredibly useful thread that you need to read. ;)
andre___ah, thanks a ton00:02
andre___wanted to grab through last days' ITT threads tomorrow morning :)00:02
GeneralAntillesDon't bother.00:02
GeneralAntillesnothing worthwhile.00:02
andre___hey, i like arguing :-D00:03
andre___but not tonight, got a flu and need sleep :) see you!00:03
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RST38bisany good sketch apps for maemo? (not maemopad+)00:27
GeneralAntillesliqbase? :P00:28
GeneralAntillesor Xournal00:28
* lcuk seconds GeneralAntilles's suggestion00:29
RST38bisxournal it is then.00:29
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jott~lart garage for its slowness00:30
* infobot whips out a shotgun, trudges over to garage, and goes postal for its slowness00:30
* lcuk cries at a lost sale00:30
jottcall for translators:*checkout*/trunk/adv-backlight/po/advanced-backlight.pot?root=adv-backlight&rev=9100:30
jottadv-backlight is i18n now :)00:30
summatusmentislcuk: lost sale?00:31
lcukyer, i lost £0.00 cos RST38bis went with xournal :P00:31
GeneralAntillesRST38bis, have you tried liqbase yet?00:31
summatusmentisheh, oh00:31
jottgerman translation is done, but suggestions for improvement are welcome.00:32
lcuknahhh GeneralAntilles the sketch app wont be ready till the summit, but as a pencil thing its quicker than anything00:32
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qwerty12_N800hehe, lcuk, how's the debianization going ?00:32
pupnikRST38bis: mypaint, no contest:
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RST38bislcuk: actually you are getting 0.00 as i  am getting liqbase src;)00:33
lcukits great qwerty12_N800 :D not i have maybe 3/25 goals achieved :P00:33
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lcukcool rst :)00:33
RST38bisga: yep. but it is more of a demo00:33
jottlcuk will be rich by tomorrow if he gets 0.00$ from everyone00:33
lcukRST38bis, you are right, its just a demo for now - however every sketch stored will be used later00:34
RST38bispupnik: can't stand mypaint - it is not hildonized at all :(00:34
GeneralAntillesmypaint is pretty awesome00:34
lcukive been porting something quite cool00:34
RST38bismypaint would be nice if it had decent ui...00:35
* qwerty12_N800 would <3 for openut00:35
pupniklike what?00:35
RST38bislcuk: wine?=]00:35
pupnikthe mypaint ui is the keyboard00:35
lcukpupnik, with all these paint programs, you have mentioned in the past the stylus strokes occasionally join together - it happens in liqbase as well in powersave mode: on performance they go away and everything is quicker: try knocking your cpu to performance and see if mypaint is smoother00:36
GeneralAntillesmypaint could use some cool edge pallets.00:36
RST38bisor something similar00:36
lcukRST38bis, well ive got 800 pencil sketches (and growing) mostly with notes and writing on them: a damned good sample size for hwr00:37
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pupniklcuk: mypaint is cpu hungry due to the alpha blending brushes, and the ghost lines bug has been fixed afaik00:37
RST38bisnot sure if plain edge palettes would work well in maemo - too small screen estate00:37
GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to get it into Extras.00:37
lcukpupnik, but if it was running even faster it may be even betterer00:37
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RST38bismypaint is written in python?00:38
* qwerty12_N800 hopes not00:38
pupniklcuk, you have to suid the app to enable performance mode yes?00:38
GeneralAntillesRST38bis, I'm thinking something like, having semi-circles on the edge of the screen that you tap to bring out, then select your color/brush and it goes away.00:38
lcukit could be: but with a canvas in c00:38
RST38bisit is.00:38
GeneralAntillesSomebody made a mockup in the thread.00:38
pupnikGeneralAntilles: i made sketches for that00:38
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RST38bisga: my thought exactly00:38
GeneralAntillesYeah, I really like that idea.00:38
lcukif liqbase is setup and run as root once you change to performance it stays until you reboot or change down for the whole system00:39
lcuknumpty works better like that :D00:39
RST38bisga: like pull-down ribbons00:39
GeneralAntillesI love that concept.00:39
lcukpupnik, speaking of boobie pictures, did your search for a new model go well?00:40
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pupnikeh um... actually met someone who'd fit the bill but can't find her number :P00:40
pupnikbut RST38bis is right - myspace needs ui work00:40
pupniki mean mypaint00:41
timelyjott: hey, have you seen microsoft's translation table?00:41
timelyit's really handy00:41
RST38bisliqbase project has not releas d any files:(00:41
lcuklol myspace needs disconnecting00:41
lcukbetter have something in svn still :P00:41
jotttimely: uhm no.. *googles*00:42
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GeneralAntillesThe Garage scm stats tracker is still a bit broken, I see.00:42
jotttimely: still the last warning message should be quite impossible to translate with any automatic tool ;)00:42
lcukRST38bis, i would release something if i could get the package to build, but my foo is severly lacking in this dept00:42
RST38bislcuk: need a blank project?00:43
lcukim about 80% there00:43
lcukim calling dpkg_buildpackage and have got it building and skipping the clean stage (dont ask) but its now failing at make install step00:44
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jotttimely: where is this table?  /me is too stupid00:44
lcukmy makefile lacks entries and tbh i think it would fail if i just copied the file in there00:44
RST38bisyou can use my colem or fmsx project if you wish - makefiles, packaging, etc00:44
lcukmight be a good idea to have a proper clean look at, where are they?00:45
RST38bisI really dumbed it down though. No fancy crap.00:46
lcukRST38bis, everything in: is latest (even though maemo ver is 353 ?00:48
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jottRST38bis: the "available" link is a 404 should be not ...Colem....zip00:48
GNUtonhi there00:49
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jotthey GNUton00:49
GNUtonhey jott :)00:49
RST38bisshit. will fix00:49
lcuklol jott :) do you run to the nearest phone box, change into your "internet superhero" and help everyone?00:50
jottlcuk: psst this must be kept secret!00:50
lcuk(and if i knew any language other than english i wouldv spoken up earlier)00:51
lcukunless you need a Mancunian translation00:51
RST38bislcuk: Maemo/Package for packaging00:51
lcukomg my eyes are watering !!!00:51
jottwell if you can set the device  locale to this, why not ;)00:51
RST38bisEMULib/Rules.Maemo for makefile defs00:52
lcuki thought .debs needed a /debian folder00:53
* lcuk is even more confused now00:53
RST38bisthere is one00:53
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RST38xlcuk: is it clear enough?00:59
Veggenhmm, people. Do people have a problem when flying with their tablet? I mean, complying with rules, I should turn it off during takeoff and landing, and then it's gonna play the nokia tune when I boot it up again :)01:01
lcuknot really, i see nothing to do with packaging nor installing01:01
Veggenhmm. maybe just remember to have the earphones plugged in.01:01
lcukyour makefiles in remind me of mine (but you are spread over a few subfolders)01:01
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Veggen(yah, of course I leave it in offline mode :)01:02
lcukveggen, slide lock make it go off before they ask you, when they DO ask if they see it, just show them the blank dead screen.  also in the airport put it in offline more01:02
lcuksome guy had a laptop on the plane and just wanted to shut the lid, the steward made him fully off it, he had some major annoying logout (and logback in later) tune01:03
Veggenlcuk: I just shut it off, and remember to put my earplug in before booting, then noone will hear the nokia tune and believe it's a phone ;)01:04
GeneralAntillesI've never had a problem.01:04
Veggenyou never know.01:05
robinkYou gotta disable the WiFi before you turn it on, right?01:05
lcukcan you change that tune for a silent sample?01:05
robinkHow do you do that?01:05
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Veggenrobink: you have to do it before you turn it off :)01:05
lcukquick press the power button and select offline mode from the menu01:05
RST38xlcuk: i have to have multiple folders for all the pkatforms01:05
robinkVeggen, lcuk: Ah01:06
lcukRST38h, 100% understand that, but what i cannot see is the packaging side of things01:06
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RST38xlcuk: ColEm/Maemo/Package/package01:07
lcukwhen i build a package with dpkg_buildpackage it does everything and makes my software, then i assume it attempts to "install" my software inside the package in the correct folder layout.  what is missing from my makefile is the install section01:07
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lcukonly 2 files there, maemo.c and makefile01:07
RST38xno Package dir?01:07
Veggenok, turned it off, then topping the battery to make it last as long as possible of the travel.01:08
lcuksuper- jott, does what i say fit with whats actually happening01:08
Veggen2*1h45 min plane plus a couple of hours train.01:08
lcukveggen - take screen and turn it down 2 notches01:08
VeggenShould make quite a bit of italian language podcasts to brush up my italian :)01:08
lcuki can last all day reading sketching compiling numptying and playing01:09
RST38xlcuk: check fmsx then01:09
lcukon performance cpu01:09
RST38xthere should be a Maemo/Package dir01:09
VeggenI plan to listen to language podcasts. Only one week in italy this time, I need a little cheating to get better in italian while there ;)01:09
lcuksimilar i believe but that has the added problem that source is 351 but maemo package is 35301:09
lcuknot even a maemo folder01:10
RST38xit had packaging from the start01:10
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lcukdoes not exist01:11
lcukroms and unix are 2 subfolders, i think your webserver is out of sync with your local is all01:11
lcuknm for now :) ill grab again when you update01:12
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lcuki only wanted a quick peek anyways01:12
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RST38xweird, maybe i did not include it? but why?01:13
lcuki'd simply say it was last updated before your maemo burst - and if you have uploaded them you have uploaded to somewhere else01:13
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RST38xall roght. bedtime.01:15
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lcukpupnik, the ghostline fix he put in is time based, very clever but could cause a wanted stroke to actually be joined and can actually still occur if your writing speed is high01:26
lcukmind you, its not geared for writing - drawing speed01:26
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fatal-howdy. is there any app for maemo that would somehow allow tracking externally where the device is located, using google maps or something similar?01:41
lcuktheres a map built in01:41
lcukand theres maemo mapper01:41
pupniki think he means uploading current position somewhere on the web or email01:42
fatal-I really mean externally, requiring somekind of server support01:42
lcukmaemo mapper allows downloads from different map providers and can (i believe) import routes from google maps01:42
GeneralAntillesfatal-, set up gpsd to allow remote connections.01:42
fatal-of course somekind of ssh or wget hack might work, just leeching the location from gpsd..01:42
lcukahhhh fatal,no but i doubt it would be difficult to setup a script to run and push latest gps position01:42
lcukthere was a discussion today on itT01:43
lcukget some ideas from there01:43
lcukit was for a "call home occasionally incase i get stolen" idea01:43
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lcukall you have to find is a service which will log and plot and display some points01:44
lcuka mini mashup using google maps api should work nicely on basically any webserver01:45
GeneralAntillesBe cool if that lojack app would get off the ground.01:46
lcukive given a lot of thought to this myself - when i went checking the camera though the red warning light came on01:46
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lcukthat was directly through gstreamer so it would need hacking lower down to remove that problem01:47
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lcukGeneralAntilles, i wonder if we could have a small amount of data space per user account on maemo.org01:47
fatal-lcuk: well, I guess I'll try out a little hack then..01:48
lcuka private field on the user account for "Last GPS location"01:48
lcukthat way we can just push and update to there and we know its basically online01:48
lcukfatal-, :) if you get something up that works with google maps it would be interesting to see01:48
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lcukwith the google api, can you get it reading your mail?01:50
* lcuk is pondering outloud01:50
GeneralAntilleslcuk, somebody already did a page like that.01:50
GeneralAntillesSometime last year.01:50
lcukwhat a gps/google mashup?01:50
pupnikfantastic speeches from the CCC congress:  (hacker conference)01:51
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GeneralAntillesSomebody should figure out all this gpsd stuff and put up a wiki page.01:52
lcukGeneralAntilles, :) you are a star01:53
lcukive grabbed that and will see what i can mash it into01:53
lcukwhether anything comes of it before the summit is another thing01:53
lcukits saved in my folder for when i get time :)01:54
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fatal-what might be the "right" way to get the location info on an n810? navicore-gpsd-helper gives me nothing and trying to follow /dev/pgps seems to cause problems02:06
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GeneralAntillesgpsd doesn't have great documentation. . . .02:11
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fatal-garage doesn't like about me right now, slow as a snail02:14
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|tbb|is there an application available to launch programs from hildondesktop02:27
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lcuklol GeneralAntilles i buried myself in my profile \o/02:34
lcukthe icon looked like a comment icon so i clicked it, now im bolloxed02:35
yigalyesterday I asked if anyone knew of any cheap phones that work with t-mobile's $20 plan for pairing with the n800, after no response, I guess I will ask does anyone know of a phone that simply works with t-mobile's $20 internet plan.02:36
yigal+ pairing02:37
lcukyigal, i dont know the first thing about phones, have you considered taking your 800 into a shop with you and talking it through with the phone guy02:37
yigalno one ever knows anything in a t-mobile shop you know that02:38
lcukif the guy in the first shop doesnt know about pairing and whether it can work (and possibly show you) then go to the next02:38
lcukthen try a different shop02:38
lcukyou dont have to buy, just sound interested02:38
lcukonce you find a model or range that suits you are away02:38
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lcukjust tell them its a computer and you need to connect like a laptop02:39
lcukotherwise they will see nokia and just think its phone to phone and will be confused02:39
lcukthey looked blankly at mine when i went in for a memory card02:39
lcuk"wow, thats a neat phone" says the guy behind the counter02:40
lcukhow the hell do you tell the phone guy your nokia isnt a phone02:40
lcukanyway, i digress, im goin back to code :)02:40
GeneralAntilles"It's not a phone"02:40
lcukbut its a nokia02:41
GeneralAntilles"Yeah?! Well ur uh hooker!"02:41
yigalI have been able to pair my blackberry pearl with a laptop because of barry, a minimal set of mostly command line tools for using blackberry but the nokia doesn't have this so this is why I have to find something that does work02:41
yigals/tools/tools with linux/02:42
infobotyigal meant: I have been able to pair my blackberry pearl with a laptop because of barry, a minimal set of mostly command line tools with linux for using blackberry but the nokia doesn't have this so this is why I have to find something that does work02:42
lcukmost phones do actually work from what i can gather02:42
yigalthat is a good thing02:42
lcukyou could have a look if theres anyone with lists on internettablettalk02:42
yigalI've been typing in searches via google and get back blackberries, palms, etc. but I need something pretty cheap approx $200 at most02:43
yigalwithout the 2year plan "discount"02:43
yigalowell this is off topic thanks lcuk02:43
yigalwell hopefully has something02:45
lcukomg a whole phone list for you02:47
GeneralAntillesew old02:47
lcukwheres the new one then :P02:48
yigalah I see yes, the link is even in the thread :)02:48
GeneralAntilleslcuk, isn't one.02:48
yigalGeneralAntilles: always has the latest02:48
yigalwell I want old actually, most likely a bit cheaper02:48
yigallooks like the razr is not such a bad thing kind of cheap, and small - I don't plan to use it.02:52
yigalother than use it as a modem02:53
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yigalinteresting just talked to t-mobile - asked for the techs. right away - and they will be bringing in 3g tech. in half a year, so the choice for the phone has been changed a bit03:29
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crashanddielcuk, ping03:45
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Edgestercan someone help me with the following error:03:54
Edgesterhome/maemo/afs/dpkg/diablo-1.4.7/openafs-1.4.7/build/src/pinstall/pinstall  libprocmgmt.a /home/maemo/afs/dpkg/diablo-1.4.7/openafs-1.4.7/build/lib/libprocmgmt.a03:54
Edgesterlibfakeroot: FAKEROOTKEY not defined in environment03:54
EdgesterBad exit code from /bin/cp: 25603:54
EdgesterCould not open output temp file ``/home/maemo/afs/dpkg/diablo-1.4.7/openafs-1.4.7/build/lib/libprocmgmt.a.maemo-sdk'': No such file or directory03:54
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robinkSo why is OGG support held up again?04:56
robinkI've been wracking my brains trying to think of possible legal issues with it.04:56
GeneralAntillesBecause lawyers are evil.04:57
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m-cyigal: I use a cheap cell phone with t-mobile's (usa) unlimited data plan05:02
* robink wants to be able to play his OGG music collection :(05:02
m-cMe, too - I just do not understand G.A.'s flippant remark.05:02
GeneralAntillesEr, what's not to understand?05:02
GeneralAntillesLawyers are evil.05:03
m-crobink: There is a package you can install to enable Ogg Vorbis functionality05:03
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yigalm-c: my previous phone was a v330 that got dumped in water, I changed service to unlimited just now and the v330 has come back to life :)05:03
robinkm-c: Which one?05:03
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yigalm-c: I didn't even think it worked, and now it it's giving me an ssh connection :)05:04
m-cGeneralAntilles thinks it is better to have corporations trounce all over citizen with no access to lawyers.05:04
GeneralAntillesAlright-y then05:05
m-cyigal: Their plan and connections are really good, but they do not have the fastest networks.05:05
GeneralAntillesm-c, don't read into stupid remarks too much.05:05
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m-c;-)  okay05:05
* GeneralAntilles goes down for a restart.05:06
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yigalm-c: I realize, I'm stuck with them until may 09, but having an internet connection is realy important of any sort, so I'm releaved it worked05:06
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robinkm-c: Which package?05:06
m-cRegarding Ogg, I am sure I am not the only one who bought this NIT especially as a portable Ogg Vorbis player.05:07
m-crobink: If I knew, I would have told you05:07
robinkm-c: Ah.05:07
yigalm-c: they claim they will have 3g working throughout the entire US by the end of 08, so we'll see05:07
robinkm-c: mogg is in the chinook repository, but it doesn't seem to work with Media Player.05:07
m-cyigal: Problem is that most of their phones do not support it05:07
yigalm-c: of course my cheap phone won't work at that point, :(05:07
yigalm-c: yes, exactly05:07
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m-cOn the plus side, they block no ports and have no caps05:08
yigalm-c: can't say no to that :)05:08
m-cI like getting my monthly statement and seeing hundreds of megs downloaded.05:08
yigalm-c: :), I like the no blocking ports part05:09
yigalm-c: personally05:09
yigalm-c: this is good05:09
m-cI believe it is the only cellular carrier to give you all the ports05:09
m-cnot that I follow it that closely05:09
summatusmentism-c: which carrier? My Sprint SERO plan gives me all the ports05:10
yigalm-c: all I know is that at&t and sprint are faster than dsl, but as long as I can get my email, and ssh I'm happy05:10
m-cyigal: I use my t-mobile data connection to write emails to the airports, while I wait for a plane, explaining what a rip off their $8 Internet fees are for travelers.05:11
yigalm-c: that rocks05:11
m-cYeah, worth the monthly cost right there.05:11
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yigalm-c: well I downloaded maemo's wget so I better start using it, I know I can't cetch up to your x00M bytes of data but I'll do my best this month05:12
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m-cKeep striving for the record!  ;)05:13
mouser-I bought a f-f usb adapter and am having some trouble getting it to work with anything.  The usb control app keeps saying the control is idle and doesn't update when I switch modes.05:16
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sin18does anyone know about the repository for kismet (nokia n800 diablo) ? i dont see it on Thanks.05:19
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HVACengimouser: have you run dmesg to see the last few usb mesages?05:23
mouser-No, not yet05:23
mouser-HVACengi: do I run that with any parameters?05:24
HVACengii just ran it from the command line and had the same symtoms, with a permision denied error, but it works fine off the menu.05:25
HVACengiyou can just run "dmesg" at the prompt right after trying to change modes05:25
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mouser-HVACengi: How many lines do you need?05:31
HVACengigood question... let me check mine05:33
HVACengii have 7 lines refering to usb and hub05:35
mouser-HVACengi: Did you get my PM?05:36
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GAN800yerga, don't you have editbugs?05:37
yergano no05:37
GAN800Talk to timeless, andre, or karsten about that. You should. :P05:38
yergaI will do someday05:38
yergaI am just learning about bugzilla05:39
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* GAN800 really wants that mediawiki Bugzilla plugin.05:47
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mouser-I'm having some trouble connecting a flash drive or keyboard to the n810 with a f-f USB adapter.  I have a log of dmesg after trying to change the host mode here:
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GAN800Did a recommended category list ever get farther than -developers?06:50
Gracanamouser-,     * Unknown post id, it may have expired or been deleted06:53
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mouser-Oh, sorry.  Let me try again, Gracana07:00
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GracanaHmm. That might mean something to somebody, but my impression is that it doesn't really tell much about the problem.07:03
mouser-Gracana: What would you need?07:04
GracanaI dunno. I don't think I can help you, really, I just figured I'd take a look to make sure it wasn't anything too obvious.07:04
GracanaSorry. :/07:04
HVACengiwelcome to my world07:05
johnxmouser-, so, you're sure host mode hasn't been enabled?07:06
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mouser-That's a new link, HVACengi, with the power messages in it, done immediately after reboot and the only button I pressed was Host in usbcontrol.07:07
mouser-johnx: I'm not certain, but it doesn't appear to be - I don't seem to be getting any reaction from the tablet or the devices (keyboard, flash drives) when I connect them.07:08
mouser-And I don't get any notification from usbcontrol - it just reports the USB state as b_idle07:08
johnxalright, how about a dmesg of right after you plug in the device? or does it not even cause any dmesg output?07:08
HVACengiI'd love to take a closer look, but I've got to go to work in 7 hours.  Good luck07:08
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mouser-johnx: I'll try that, one moment.07:09
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robinkCan someone link me to articles or mailinglist postings about the legal troubles with OGG?07:12
mouser-johnx: No, just some EAC mode messages and a message about cx3110x, which I assume is the wifi.07:13 you have a different usb flash drive to test with?07:14
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mouser-johnx: Yes, I've tried two flash drives, I can try a third, but I wouldn't think they would draw that much power.07:17
johnxI have one that draws too much power and a couple that work07:18
ShadowJK_legal troubles with ogg?07:22
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mouser-johnx, Hmm.  In any case, according to HVACengi, usbcontrol should be changing the mode or reporting something even if the device is not plugged in.07:22
johnxI'll look at my output from a working system in a couple minutes...07:24
mouser-Granted, he was on diablo and not chinook, but it's the same version of usbcontrol.07:24
mouser-Thanks, johnx07:24
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* robink has OGG support now, just not lightmediascanner07:28
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timelyrobink: in short, most people won't really talk about this stuff07:45
timelythey can't07:45
timelyeven xiph won't talk about certain parts (their strategy)07:46
timelyand this is ok/understandable07:46
timelylawyers are paid to see shadows07:46
timelybut often they won't talk about the shadows they see...07:47
timely(and yes, i read the link and know it's sorta the opposite, but the point is that there are lawyers somewhere near this stuff)07:47
timelyrobink: exactly how hard did you search? because searching for lawyers + a couple keywords found mailing lists w/o much trouble...07:48
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robinktimely: I searched for 'ogg maemo lawyer', which brought up a couple of old mailinglist postings and bug reports07:52
robinkIs Maemo independent of Nokia?07:55
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robinkI mean, is it a community-run project, or is it like the Mozilla foundation before it was spun off?07:56
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ItalodanceDIABLO IS GOOD OR NOT!?07:57
robinkItalodance: I'd say it's good.  OGG support isn't quite there yet, but that's 99% fixable.07:57
mouser-robink: it's a project maintained by Nokia, but also run by the community.07:58
robinkmouser-: Ah.07:58
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budmang:) How do I make my N800 CPU faster(Im already on the diablo kernel/rotation/sd card boot 8GB).08:03
tank-mani know how you can overclock it by 9.8m/s/s :)08:05
unixSnobdesolder the chrystal oscilator, and solder in a faster one08:05
budmanganything serious to make it faster or always run at 400mhz would be nice.08:05
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budmanglove my n80008:05
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budmanganyone else having problems with canola and diablo?(seeing text?)08:06
tank-manisnt the cpu speed variable? and 400mhz was possible since chinook, no?08:06
budmangNot sure, im a nubie when it comes to that. I thought i had to echo something into some files to set the cpu to max.08:07
budmangJust cant remember, wondering if there were any other tricks08:07
johnxnormally the CPU scales to "fast" when you're doing something intensive and "slower" when you're doing something that doesn't need all the power08:12
johnxyou can lock it at full speed (at the cost of battery life. there's always a price.)08:12
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budmanganyone know of any cool apps/hacks to make the n800 any coolers?08:13
budmangright how can i lock it at full speed(at the cost of battery).08:13
unixSnobbudmang: hold the n800 outside the window while driving down the freeway.. that'll cool it off08:14
johnxopen a terminal, become root, type:  echo performance > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor08:14
budmangthank you johnx that was it.,08:16
budmanganyone have a better keyboard or finger keyboard for the portrait mode?08:16
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budmangwhat about sparks running on the n800?08:21
budmangjava jabber client08:21
budmangthat does other jazz(livechat etc..)08:21
johnxprobably not, the java support isn't all the way and it would be slow08:22
johnxbut the builtin client supports jabber08:22
johnxthere's also pidgin08:22
budmangyes it just doesnt do the fastpath live chat for the website08:23
johnxthe java support on n8x0 is called jalimo IIRC08:25
johnxit's worth a look if you want08:25
budmangthanks again johnx08:26
budmangdoes the sd card run at 48hz with diablo?08:27
budmangor do I need to do something?08:27
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qwerty12you need to flash a 48hz enabled kernel08:29
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budmangif I have the bin of a modified one, how would I do that?08:30
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[A2K]is there java for maemo?08:31
budmang22:25johnxthe java support on n8x0 is called jalimo IIRC08:31
johnxbudmang++ :D08:32
budmangits all about sharing :)08:32
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johnxbudmang, for flashing you have a linux desktop? windows? mac?08:32
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qwerty12If you have diablo, use fiasco-flasher to flash on the device.08:33
budmangi just ran an app that flashed and copied to my sd card. then ran another app that flashed the rotation automatically for me.08:33
budmangqwerty? can i use the.bin file?08:33
johnxbudmang, make sure that the kernel you want to flash has all the features you want. 48MHz SD + rotation support08:34
qwerty12Yes, I believe syntax is like the windows one, fiasco-flasher -f -k <name of kernel.bin>08:34
budmangYea, I think I could live with out the rotation as the keyboard is unusable :)08:35
qwerty12No one else except for me has done a diablo rotation kernel and I didn't include 48MHz in there :/08:35
budmangohh yes it was your name/post I got it from. Thank you as well qwerty.08:36
budmang1 thing that threw me off. I have the advanced backlight installed prior to your install.  when I use the rotate via that applet the Dpad changes, if I use the appplet included with yours it does not change the d-pad.08:37
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qwerty12I made a modification to that applet to do that :) but you need to have xmodmap installed.08:37
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budmangYour work is appreciated.08:38
qwerty12But adv-backlight is miles better anyway imho.08:38
qwerty12It's jott's work :)08:38
budmangwhat other tweaks/tips do you have :)08:38
qwerty12I just updated the stuff for diablo and made a kernel deb.08:38
qwerty12Not really sure, can't think of anything off the top of my head (my tablet's blank after a v.recent reflash) :)08:39
qwerty12Bundyo was prodding me to add the 48MHz patch to the android kernel with rotation, i'll try doing that when I have time08:40
yigalI imagine this tutorial for flashing MMC cards works for SD, but is it up to date ?
yigaloh, yes of course it works for sd cards08:42
budmangthere is a application that does it all for you08:42
yigalalways something newer better :)08:42
budmangworks like a charm :)08:43
budmanganyone use a bluetooth keyboard or just recommend one?08:43
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johnxbudmang, thinkoutside stowaway08:46
johnxI don't use it but it seems like everyone else does :P08:46
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* Stskeeps reaches out for his coffee machine08:53
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johnxStskeeps, my thoughts exactly :)08:53
Stskeepsecho performance > .. - could be interesting to use to make something that puts it on performance when on charger for instance and ondemand when not08:54
Stskeepser, i mean bme dbus proxy08:55
* Stskeeps should really go for that cup of coffee.08:55
qwerty12Reminds me of lcuk's acmonitor mod :)08:55
yigalhow do I create a shortcut 'Alt' for osso-xterm?08:55
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yigalIf anyone has done it before, I would like to move words back and forward, alt-f, alt-b etc.08:56
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yigalowell, :)09:01
Stskeepsjohnx: i've committed a package create/install refactoring of installer, so we easily can do stuff like "Skipping package X because it requires Diablo/Chinook" for instance09:05
Stskeepsand have a list of those packages, like DIABLO_ONLY_PACKAGES = []09:06
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rm_youbudmang: yeah i use the thinkoutside stowaway :P as johnx is probably aware, lol09:08
rm_youi like it :P09:09
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yigalall of these bluetooth folding keyboards look great, I should get one09:15
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johnxStskeeps, that sounds reasonable09:26
JaffaMorning, all09:28
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rm_youGAN800: jott: yo?09:46
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Stskeepsjohnx: why would people delete osso-software-somethingsomething-rx44 btw?10:07
Stskeepsjust curious since you did that :)10:07
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johnxit conflicted with something10:08
johnxor  I didn't like the way it looked at me10:08
johnxI'll see what it conflicts with :)10:08
johnxaaah, right, I pulled the chinook version of modest since it was less likely to go crazy and soak up 100% CPU time10:09
RST38hHave I missed a financial crisis in the US this night?10:12
RST38hOr am I just reading the wrong news?10:13
StskeepsRST38h: i think it's pretty much constant10:13
RST38hNo, something looks wrong10:14
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RST38hwronger than usual10:14
RST38hit is in russian - this is why I am wondering if this is real or just worded in a convinient "america sucks" way10:15
* timeless is looking for a place to ask questions about mod_ssl10:15
johnxwhat kind of thing is it talking about? fannie may or whatever?10:15
yigalthere was spamming about wwIII ?10:16
yigalread about in /.10:16
RST38hjohnx: yep10:16
StskeepsRST38h: for english perspective10:17
RST38hww3 thing was a clear oiece of bullshit10:17
RST38hsts: thanks =)10:17
StskeepsRST38h: sometimes i do wonder though.. the rhetoric against iran is quite heavy these days10:18
RST38hsts: not physically possible10:18
Stskeepsbut calling it ww3 is just odd :P10:19
RST38hsts: the best ahmadi-not-a-jew can hope for is a quick israeli bombing campaign10:19
Stskeepsthen again, the 6 day war was quite impressive back then and did reach a wide area :P10:21
Stskeepsbut anyway, i have to work :P10:21
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Mikhowould anyone know a good example program for maemo utilizing the bluez library?10:23
RST38hmikho: maemo mapper should10:23
MikhoI can't get much work done by just reading the API10:23
MikhoRST38h, ok I'll check that out10:24
XTLiMaybe the bluez utils themselves10:24
XTLiMaybe you can publish some as you get aloong :)10:25
t_s_ough, economics...10:25
Mikhoat the moment I can connect to the device and connect to a serial port service, but only one time per reboot10:26
RST38hyou are not shutting down something properly?10:28
MikhoAfter the first time, I get error messages saying it can't create the serial port dev file10:28
Mikhoand disconnect gives Failure: Message did not receive a reply (timeout by message bus)10:28
RST38hdefinitely not shutting down something, most likely due to that error10:29
Mikhoso it seems indeed10:29
Mikhoso I need to figure out how to set up the connection properly10:30
Mikhosetup and disconnect10:30
andre___yerga, what is the email add you use in maemo bugzilla?10:33
RST38hIs Jaffa around?10:34
yigalI'm trying to flash an SD card using as suggested by qwerty1210:34
Mikhofirst of all, how can I find out which /dev file it's trying to use?10:35
yigalhowever my system seems not to have mbcache.ko and so fails10:35
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RST38hwhatever file it is trying to use, it has not been closed the last time10:35
yigalwhere is an automated script to clone the internal mem. to the SD10:36
yigalanyone know if I'm supposed to have the driver mbcache in diablo10:37
yigalok lsmod|grep mbcache it's in there10:42
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MikhoRST38h, how can I close the connection from the terminal? What happens if I just delete the file?10:43
yigalok another day, night10:46
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XTLiI think they could easily have made the claim that maemo means hello in some obscure language11:04
rm_youAnyone here want to help with Advanced Backlight translations? It's very easy... We have spanish, german and dutch completed already. :)11:08
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X-FadeAndroc: You are already on #maemo ;)11:10
rm_youanyone know how /ignore works?11:11
rm_youah nm it has a help thingy11:11
johnxAndroc, hello :)11:11
rm_youwtf it didn't work11:11
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rm_youwhew, i think it may have worked that time...11:13
rm_youfor some reason it won't work unless I do *@ for the hostmask >_>11:13
rm_youjohnx: want to ask wakey to translate adv-backlight into japanese? :P11:15
johnxrm_you, I could probably take a swing at it11:15
rm_youheh, getting good? :P11:15
johnxthere's like 3 strings, right?11:16
rm_you*checkout*/trunk/adv-backlight/po/advanced-backlight.pot?root=adv-backlight&rev=9111:17 added a lot since I last saw it...11:17
rm_youhave you installed it recently? >_>11:18
johnxnot really o_o;11:18
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rm_yougrab 0.12-6 from -devel11:18
rm_youit's getting good :)11:18
johnxafter my debian install succeeds/fails11:19
rm_youok then give me a bit11:19
rm_youi'll package up the new one after some minimal testing and then get it to devel11:19
Stskeepsjohnx: it's a shame ext2 doesn't have something like zfs snapshots.. then we could do a zfs snapshot debian@debootstrap and just clone the snapshot, and then run postdebootstrap on it11:24
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Stskeepsand if it fails, just roll back snapshot :P11:24
Stskeepsso we don't have to install debian all over :)11:25
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StskeepsAndroc: you spammers aren't very creative are you :P11:25
johnxthere's something similar that can be done. At a former job I had a backup system that used hardlinks to simulate that kind of thing11:25
johnxback in a bit11:26
AndrocStskeepers: I am not a spammer11:26
StskeepsAndroc: why do you keep on repeating maemo then? :>11:26
Androcbecause it's correct11:26
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* Stskeeps blinks11:27
rm_youStskeeps: /ignore * ALL11:27
Stskeepsrm_you: i've considered it11:27
rm_youworks great :P11:27
Stskeepsand how do you know i use irssi11:27
rm_youheh, i use that in XChat, i believe it is one of those things that is standard syntax11:27
AndrocStskeeps: do you concur?11:28
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rm_youanyone here know french or russian?11:31
Androcstskeeps: do you concur?11:32
rm_youor italian? :P11:36
hrwops, i said morning here already ;)11:37
X-Faderm_you: He is from Iran :)11:37
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Italodancemorning hrw11:38
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rm_youanyone know ANY languages besides english (obviously, if you are reading this), german, spanish, and dutch? :P11:40
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gomiamrm_you: me, spanish11:44
gomiamactually I know english _besides_ spanish XD11:44
aquatixrm_you: does C count?11:44
rm_yougomiam: err, lol11:45
XTLiFinnish, terrible swedish11:45
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gomiamrm_you: O:-)11:46
rm_youXTLi: feel like translating something to Finnish? :P11:46
XTLiI was thinking about it11:47
hrwrm_you: Polish11:47
rm_youjust fill in msgstr :P11:49
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rm_youand post as an attachment on or email to aharwell (at) trinity (dot) edu11:50
hrwrm_you: the problem is that I do not even know which word for Backlight is used in other Polish translations11:51
rm_youpeople just need to be able to understand it <_<11:51
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rm_youand I think we decided we weren't going to translate the proper noun "Advanced Backlight", though in the other contexts "backlight" would need to be translated :/11:52
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floriangood morning11:55
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hrwrm_you: Rotation support req xomap with xrandr?11:55
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hrwrm_you: why there is a warning for n800 users?11:57
hrwand does it apply to n810 too?11:57
rm_youif you don't have qwerty's rotation pack installed, the rotation parts won't show up11:57
rm_youhrw: yes, and no it does not apply to n810 users11:57
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rm_youhrw: n810 screen is transflective or whatever the term is, so it doesn't need the backlight on to see it11:57
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rm_youn800 screen is not11:58
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hrwcan translation of "n800 users beware" be more then "not suggested on n800" then?11:59
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rm_youit's like12:00
rm_youCaution: n800 users!12:00
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rm_youn800 users employ caution12:04
hrwrm_you: is Polish translation without credits12:05
rm_youhave you checked what google translator says? sometimes that actually provides some insights or ideas12:05
rm_youah k12:05
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rm_youhrw: can you notice me your name/email?12:07
rm_youor PM12:07
hrwrm_you: Marcin Juszkiewicz maemo@haerwu.biz12:07
befr0d|N810rm_you, have you got an spanish translator?12:09
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aquatixrm_you: it's already translated in Dutch?12:09
rm_youbefr0d: yes12:10
rm_youaquatix: yes12:10
Stskeepswoo. now with a usrp gnu radio board <312:10
rm_youboth of you can feel free to check the translations and submit changes if you think you can do better12:10
rm_youalways feel free to improve them12:10
aquatixnot that i use my n810 in dutch or something :)12:11
aquatixi might check it out later today12:11
befr0d|N810they are on svn, right?12:11
aquatixyou have version control somewhere?12:12
rm_youyeah sec12:13
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aquatixrm_you: i think this is slightly better -
aquatix[dutch translation]12:20
rm_youwhat are the main differences?12:21
aquatixsome removed spaces between words [which should be together in correct Dutch] and changed `achterlicht' to `schermverlichting'12:22
aquatixbetter translation, less awkward12:22
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befr0d|N810changed tema, instead of temo12:28
befr0d|N810and fixed an accent on last string12:29
rm_youk, thanks12:29
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befr0d|N810 difícil , he had the accent backwards, and the i was capitalized12:30
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korgothhello :)12:39
johnxhi korgoth12:40
rm_youkorgoth: what languages do you know? :P12:41
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XTLiHow's ?12:46
XTLiTop vars I left, strings should be there if charfsets come out right12:47
rm_youis finnish "fi" or "fn"?12:49
rm_youah guessing fi, same as the domain extension :P12:49
XTLiWhat's fn? :)12:49
rm_youlol something i made up just now12:49
rm_youignore me12:49
korgothrm_you: none :-D12:50
rm_youkorgoth: lol, english? :P12:50
korgothanyone here using ssh thru the os2008?12:50
XTLiLocalized by Fabrique Nationale12:50
johnxkorgoth, yes12:51
korgothjohnx: on what device?12:52
korgothand any chance on u using centerim?12:52
rm_youXTLi: lol, translation via P90 :P12:52
korgothjohnx: im wondering whats the possibility of sendinf "esc" chars and ctrl combinations12:54
johnxkorgoth, escape is sent with the curly "back arrow button"12:54
johnxctrl- sequences can be added to the x-terminal toolbar12:54
johnxyou'd have to compile it yourself but I don't see a big reason why it wouldn't work12:55
johnxif I were you I'd start with Debian's packages and look at using mud-builder in scratchbox to build it12:55
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lcuk_worklardman, am i as optimistic as overflo :P12:58
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lcuk_workrm_you, i just realised, i can translate your adv_backlight13:00
rm_youto what?13:01
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lcuk_workc or c++ or visual basic, at a push i might do pascal or 68k assembler :P13:01
lcuk_workhow many languages have you got so far13:02
lcuk_worknice :) your project is growing nicely13:02
lcuk_worki still think you need a torch hotkey13:03
jottmh ;)13:03
jottand a morse mode? ;)13:04
jottactually that would be a funny app13:04
jottenter a string and it blinks it's morse code13:04
jottmight be useful at one point in life ;)13:04
lcuk_work:D heh jott13:04
lcuk_workwould be even more interesting to then use the camera at the other end to read morse13:05
rm_youlol that would be an AWESOME app13:05
rm_youuseless but awesome13:05
lcuk_workwho says our device is crap at Flash13:05
rm_yousvn: OPTIONS of '/svn/adv-backlight/trunk/adv-backlight/po': Could not resolve hostname `': Temporary failure in name resolution (
lcuk_workdot dot dash dash dot dot dash13:06
jottactually this could be fairly easy...13:06
jottmaybe the camera even supports an 1x1 sized frame ;)13:07
jottthis ways you should could check a threshold13:07
jottmmh ;)13:07
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rm_youwould have to do an initialization first to get it to locate the area in the image that is the other n80013:08
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RST38hmoo rm/you13:08
jottrm_you: na it assumes constant ambient light :P13:08
lcuk_worknahhh, just scan the noise looking for patterns13:08
RST38hJaffa: here?13:08
lcuk_workread the snow13:08
lcuk_workSETI   ((Search for Extra-Terrestrial Internettabletusers)13:09
lcuk_workwasnt there a modem at one  point for spectrum computers which had an LDR pointing onto the tv screen to transfer data13:10
jottrm_you: we could do this as an easter egg in adv-backlight ;p13:11
jottlike hold zoom in while pressing settings ;)13:11
rm_youhard to do easter eggs in open source :P13:12
rm_youwe would have to obfuscate the hell out of it :P13:12
jottnot that much13:12
jottmost people don't read the source :P13:12
lcuk_work.... . .-.. .-.. ---  .-- --- .-. .-.. -..13:12
lcuk_workjust make the source morse itself13:12
lcuk_workread and parse13:13
rm_youa morse code translator in morse would be awesome13:13
lcuk_workI hope theres an Open Morse license13:13
rm_youdamnit, seriously WTF, i can't commit because i can't resolve garage\13:13
rm_youW T F13:13
lcuk_workconversion is fairly simple, heres javascript version13:13
jott mh never thought about representing more code as a tree though it's fairly obvious ;)13:14
lcuk_workrm_you, update your dns - if its a crappy router reboot it and try again?13:14
rm_youit's on a university network13:14
jottgarage makes problems all the time :P13:14
lcuk_workusing garage fills me with re-morse13:15
X-Fadejott: While that statement might be true, not able to resolve is a local problem ;)13:15
jottX-Fade: yeah i wonder, i also had serious connections problems over the weekend..13:16
XTLirm_you: there isn't a proxy required?13:16
jottX-Fade: many timeouts, but in the end the commits came through ... :)13:17
XTLiSvn keeps proxies in a conf, not obeying same settings as browser or env reading apps13:17
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rm_youno proxies13:17
XTLiI fought long with that once :-€13:17
jottrm_you: can you reach the website with a browser?13:18
rm_younslookup won't resolve it13:18
rm_youi'll try switching nameservers13:18
jotthah we made it to "Most active this week" at 100% ;)13:19
zaprm_you: why "allow zero backlight" has the "beware N800 users" warning? Is it different on N810?13:19
rm_youzap: yes13:20
jottzap: you can actually read the screeen with 0 backlight13:20
rm_youjott: been at 100% for a while :P13:20
Robot101why not just disable that on N800s? :P13:20
rm_youRobot101: we did originally... we had requests to make it optional13:20
zaprm_you: the screen on N800 is different from N810??? I thought they are very similar13:21
Robot101optional broken functionality for the loss13:21
rm_youzap: the n810's screen is transflective, which means that it is visible without a backlight13:21
rm_youRobot101: i have actually used it13:21
zapah ok, I wasn't aware n800 has a non-transflective screen13:21
X-Faderm_you: I even got bitten by it on my N810, when I set it too low at night ;)13:21
lcuk_workzap, the 810 screen has little holes all over it to allow sunlight behind and so the display can be used without any backlight at all, from what i gather the 800 has no holes13:21
rm_youX-Fade: lol13:21
zaprm_you: is it ok to post a new translation for adv-backlight in garage bugtracker?13:21
jottzap: sure13:22
rm_youzap: easier to pastebin it, or post as an attachment on the forums probably13:22
rm_youbut sure13:22
X-Faderm_you: Shining on the screen with my phone to get it back on was a pain :)13:22
rm_yousince i can't get to garage right now :P13:22
rm_youX-Fade: lol, n810 users can also disable the option :P13:22
X-Faderm_you: Yeah, that is what I did now ;)13:23
X-Faderm_you: But maybe it is better to have it off by default?13:23
RST38hyou mean 0-brightness option?13:24
rm_youX-Fade: I suppose we could do that, as there may be more people who like it off than on >_>13:24
jottX-Fade: erm why on the "most active this week" list "care" and other stuff is there three times with different activities? ;)13:24
X-Faderm_you: Yeah, if you really want it, you need to turn it on. That is the safe option.13:24
zapok its there :)13:24
rm_youX-Fade: sure, may as well do that. changed, as of next release, default will always be off13:25
X-Fadejott: Because that gforge module has some serious issues.13:25
jottX-Fade: heh i could have guessed that ;)13:25
zapis there any reason to set zero backlight anyway?13:25
jottzap: on the n810 there is13:25
zapwhat's it?13:25
jottwhen you are in the sun for example13:25
XTLiStealth bonus13:26
zaphmm ok13:26
jottbut i guess X-Fade is right, we should disable it as default.13:26
XTLiAllow it in wizard  mode13:26
rm_youas soon as garage will resolve...13:27
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X-Faderm_you:  <- /etc/hosts  :)13:29
rm_youyeah tried it13:29
rm_younot working >_< still trying to resolve13:29
rm_youscratchbox doesn't seem to be looking at /etc/hosts13:29
X-Faderm_you: Are you trying it inside scratchbox?13:29
X-Faderm_you: yeah, duhuuhu..13:30
X-Faderm_you: That is a known problem ;)13:30
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rm_youk doing it outside of scratchbox13:30
jottX-Fade: the garage ssh key still has to be rsa, right?13:31
X-Fadejott: Yes, but that is the safest key anyway ;)13:32
X-Faderm_you: That is how to fix resolving inside of scratchbox.13:32
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rm_younm, i think ITS must be doing some crazy shit with the university network13:37
rm_youi can't even get into it anymore13:37
jottX-Fade: the notification mail for extras has to be updated. diablo is missing in there.13:42
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rm_youcan't get into my buildbox >_<13:53
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rm_youanyone know what the "fuzzy" option at the top of translation piles does?14:11
infobotrm_you meant: anyone know what the "fuzzy" option at the top of translation files does?14:11
aquatixi *think* it just points out that the translation might not be entirely accurate14:12
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mgedminrm_you: the fuzzy option is attached to translations that were produced automatically by looking for a similar existing translation14:14
mgedminthey need reviewing since sometimes they're really bad guesses14:14
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jottrm_you: if you do a "make update-po" in the po/ dir the translation is updated and may create this fuzzy tag14:15
mattimohi maemo people, is there a possability to make the maemo act as an access point or are there any limitation from the hardware14:15
rm_youjott: what does it do to "update" it?14:16
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* mgedmin wants to know too14:16
mgedminsometimes I'd like to have my n810 share its dial-up internet with my laptop over wifi14:16
XTLiSw might limit; can you have lan + uplink at once?14:16
jottrm_you: check for the gettext strings (so strings that should be translated) in the files defined in the POTFILES.in14:17
rm_youjott: ah14:17
jottand update lines numbers etc14:17
jottif something changed14:17
XTLiUnless there's some odd shared component or so, I dont think hw blocks14:17
rm_youjott: so I just committed updates and 2 more languages14:18
mattimois there an iwconfig option to set a device as AP14:18
XTLiIf you can get both conns up, you could start with any random proxy sw and then try iptables14:18
XTLiProper ap impersonation I don' know about14:19
jottrm_you: or generate a fuzzy if there is a ambiguousy.14:19
mgedminmattimo: iwconfig ethX mode master, I believe, but not all wifi drivers support that14:19
mgedminsomehow I'm sure without trying that the one from IT OS won't support it14:19
lcuk_workmgedmin, :D just install Microsoft Internet Connection Sharing on your device :D ;)14:19
johnxlcuk_work, that just makes an ad-hoc connection (but I'm sure you knew that :P)14:20
mattimolcuk_work: sure14:20
mgedminlcuk_work: as soon as I upgrade my N810 to Vista Premium Mobile Edition 2008 (R)(TM), I will14:20
lcuk_workmy god, vista sucks ass grapes on good hardware, i would hate to think how it would actually work14:21
mgedminof course you'd need a 4 gb minisd card for virtual memory14:21
lcuk_workjohnx, i only ever used it with wired connections  - i dont know about that side of it14:21
mattimoiwconfig doesn't seem to be in a repo I have, do you know where to find it??14:22
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johnxbut I'm sure the tablets don't support AP / master mode14:23
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lcuk_workput it in adhoc and at least the connection can be shared14:24
mattimoan its in the wirelesstools package14:24
rm_youmattimo: it is in a package called wirelesstools14:24
lcuk_workor let the laptop act as master14:24
mattimorm_you: found it bbut thanks14:24
mgedminheh, my laptop doesn't support master OR ad-hoc14:24
mgedminI believe14:24
johnxmgedmin, I bet it supports ad-hoc (maybe not well...but that's different)14:25
johnxthere are *very* few wireless cards that support master though outside of routers these days14:25
lcuk_workmine does, apart from the battery aspecti can take my laptop and n810 wherevar and be (very insecurely) connected14:25
aquatixad-hoc is quite basic functionality14:25
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johnxlcuk_work, it actually has master support in the hardware and windows drivers? you're sure it's not ad-hoc?14:26
mgedminintel wireless drivers didn't support it initially14:26
mgedminmaybe that's been fixed14:26
lcuk_workjohnx, laptop is ubuntu14:26
mattimothe operation is not permitted14:26
* lcuk_work does actually have linux :P14:26
rm_youjott: still looking for someone to translate to Lojban :P
johnxmattimo, means it isn't supported...14:26
aquatixa lot of windows drivers don't support master mode, but in linux, those cards might just work :)14:26
lcuk_workits my main machine thats still windows14:26
mattimojohnx: don't know14:27
rm_youis there a list of languages that we should have translations for?14:28
XTLirm_you: isn't there a lojban channel?14:28
mattimowhat wirless chip does the maemo have?14:28
johnxs/means/I'm very sure that means/14:28
infobotjohnx meant: mattimo, I'm very sure that means it isn't supported...14:28
rm_youXTLi: possibly :P14:28
XTLiCould ask there14:28
johnxmattimo, cx3110x14:28
rm_youhrm, i wonder if there is a standard language code for Lojban :P14:28
XTLiSome kind of translator pool and phrase/term db for foss projects would be nice14:29
XTLiAgain, you could go ask :D14:29
jottrm_you: how about klingon? :P14:30
rm_youI'm not even sure if there is a Lojban localization :P14:30
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rm_youOOO klingon, good call :P14:30
XTLiTests teh unicode too14:31
XTLiThere's propably a ready word in Klingon for "N800 users beware!"14:32
JaffaRST38h: pong14:33
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rm_youoh yay, french now too :P14:35
jottah nice, it's really growing ;)14:35
lcuk_workhas anyone done a lolcat translation?14:37
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jotti can haz zero backlighz? :p14:39
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inzHmmh, vps got totally jammed14:40
rm_youwhat is <92>?14:40
rm_youwhat character is that14:40
jottdepends on your encoding ;)14:40
rm_youneed to translate that to utf-814:41
jottwhich language?14:41
jottmh iso8859-1 maybe?14:41
jottor -1514:42
mgedmin no14:42
mgedminit's an em-dash, I think14:42
jottheh evil windows encoding :P14:42
mgedmin$ zgrep x92 /usr/share/i18n/charmaps/CP1252.gz14:43
mgedmin<U2019>     /x92         RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK14:43
mgedminISO-8859-x never have characters in 0x80..0x9F range14:43
mgedminthey have control characters there14:43
jottmh good point14:43
mgedminWindows-125x have printable characters there14:43
rm_youhrm yeah thats sorta how it shows up in Mousepad editor14:44
aquatixah, evil smart quotes14:44
XTLiAnd innocent win encoder14:44
XTLi-> Corruption must follow14:44
rm_youheh so14:44
rm_youwhat is unicode equiv?14:44
jottcan't you just open it up as windows-1252 and safe as utf-8?14:45
jottor use recode ;)14:45
mgedminrm_you probably didn't notice the <U2019>14:46
mgedminwhich is a unicode codepoint for the RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK14:46
rm_youah yeah i failed14:46
rm_youat seeing that :P14:47
rm_youdon't know how to input that though14:47
rm_youi've been using copy/paste from utf-8 sources :P14:47
mgedminctrl+shift+u2019 in any Gtk+ program14:47
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rm_youi'm in xterm14:48
mgedminin general, iconv, recode or vim might work better than manually replacing every single character14:49
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XTLiCp from some charfmap app14:49
rm_youI am using vim14:49
XTLiBut iconv and vim are nice14:49
mgedminotoh maemo doesn't have the cp1252 iconv module in the OS, which kinda sucks14:49
rm_youXTLi: yeah copied it from charmap14:50
mgedminthere's a more-gconv-modules deb floating around that adds it14:50
mgedminand a bug in asking for it to be enabled14:50
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johnxw00! battery rundown test for the gigabyte MID15:09
johnx3:35 w/ screen off and 30% CPU load on a 10Whr battery15:11
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rm_you3:35? <_<15:13
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johnxabout twice the battery capacity as an n800, 10Whr vs 5.5Whr15:13
rm_youi still want a huge packpack style battery pack for my n80015:14
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johnxyeah, it's pretty chunky15:19
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rm_youjott: did some more updates to translations, can you check them?15:21
rm_youor, have you already checked to make sure they're all properly formatted?15:21's about the same size as a pandora :s15:21
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jottrm_you: no not yet15:23
rm_youhavent tried building them yet, as i can't get in to my buildbox >_<15:23
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jottrm_you: you also have to add them to (i'll do now)15:25
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Atariihey rm_you15:36
rm_youhey Atarii15:36
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jott <- first test package with de es fi fr nl pl ru language support15:38
rm_youjott: can you build that with at least 0.12-8?15:38
rm_youthere is 0.12-6 in -devel and it is much older :(15:39
jottshall we go to .13? ;)15:39
rm_youjohnx: you there?15:39
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rm_youjott: lol?15:39
johnxrm_you, yeah15:40
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jottwe never reach 1.0 if we go in .12-x minor steps :P15:40
rm_youjohnx: did you or W ever go to Samurai Noodle by Uwajimaya?15:40
johnxwell, I've never been there15:40
johnxis it any good?15:40
rm_youjott: lol, but we havent officially released a .12 yet15:40
rm_youjohnx: havent gone yet, am thinking about it15:41
jottisn't it in extras?15:41
rm_youjott: 0.12? not yet15:41
jotthm ok15:41
rm_youjust devel15:41
rm_youtell ya what... i'll push the 0.12 that's currently in -devel to extras, and then immediately afterwards push .13 (adds translation support) :P15:42
rm_youlet me change the changelog15:42
Atariirm_you the current 12-6 doesn't do anything for me15:42
jottrm_you: i'm currently at it15:42
GAN800Nor me.15:42
jott(writing changelog)15:42
rm_youAtarii: remember to fix the permissions on that file15:42
rm_youk i will wait till you commit15:43
Atariiyea, have done15:43
rm_youhrm k sec15:43
Atariiits the first thing i do after a reboot now, by instinct15:43
jottmy digs through svn log :)15:43
rm_youjott: the changelog should be up to date15:43
rm_youi have been updating it15:43
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rm_youdo you have the stuff i put in for 0.12-6?15:44
rm_youshould be 6 lines of changes15:44
jottyeah 12-6 is in the changelog15:44
rm_youok, that *should* be all of the major changes15:45
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rm_youdoes fanoush ever hit up IRC?15:46
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jottrm_you: i made some changes/fixes while you where asleep :P15:48
jottr100! woot ;)15:48
rm_youyeah, we should have a party :P15:48
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jottok again with bumped version number: <- first test package with de es fi fr nl pl ru language support15:49
rm_youjohnx: i think I will go today, I will report back :P15:49
johnxrm_you, alright. good luck15:49
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jottplease test and tell us if I18n works for you :)15:50
johnxjott, me?15:50
rm_youyeah.... is there an easy way to change my localization setting so i can see?15:50
rm_youjohnx: anyone :)15:51
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jottwell if you have one of the listed language as language set on your device ;)15:51
* johnx uses English15:51
jottrm_you: well change the device language :P15:51
* jott too :)15:51
jottstill there are more fixes in this snapshot15:52
jottbut you will have to reboot...15:52
rm_youi see that >_>15:52
* boolean is trying fr now15:52
rm_youi'm glad i know my way around this thing15:54
rm_youor else i would be stuck in russian for a while :P15:54
booleanhmm .. the word settings is still in the advanced-backlight ( upgraded it this morning )15:55
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rm_youaquatix: i was tempted earlier to add an umlaut to the A in your name so the encoding type of the dutch translation would actually say UTF-8 instead of Ascii :P15:55
rm_youboolean: need to use the package he linked:
booleanwasnt that the package that showed up thismomring as an upfate ?15:56
booleanwoops .. my babd15:56
rm_youthat was -6, which he DID link earlier by accident (sort of)15:56
rm_youif you use -devel15:56
Atarii12-8 has dependancy problems for me15:57
rm_youAtarii: yeah, not compiled in chinook again15:57
rm_youAtarii: will have to wait for it to go through autobuilder15:58
Atariiah, ok15:58
aquatixrm_you: that would've added an interesting pronounciation :)15:59
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rm_youanyone know french?16:03
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rm_youis there really no translation for "Rotation"? (or i guess, is it really unchanged)16:03
* lcuk_work can say big ears in french :S16:03
jottin german its also "Rotation" just pronounced diffrently ;)16:04
lcuk_workajuster l'angle de rotation.16:04
lcuk_workadjust the rotation angle.16:04
jottyou just have to pronounce it french and it will be ok :P16:04
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lcuk_workits not just the word, its the lcoation thereof16:05
lcuk_worklocation even16:05
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rm_youyeah but16:06
rm_youlcuk_work: you know french? :P16:06
jottgiven some permutation π :P16:06
boolean"bip" now there is a good fr french word16:06
lcuk_workno, google translate does16:06
lcuk_workwhen in doubt - google it.   or in this case google fr16:07
rm_youmy poor device has no idea what's going on, it's having a national identity crisis >_>16:07
lcuk_workit will at least give you a basic translation which you will get bug reports on ;)16:07
boolean"pas de volume" translates into "no volume"16:07
lcuk_work"why the heck did your program call my mother a goat herding prostitute?"16:08
lcuk_work"you KNOW we have sheep here!"16:08
rm_youboolean: is that in our translation? :P16:08
booleansame for the Luminosite thing16:08
booleanwhere you thinking "step" ?16:09
lcuk_workthe volume is muted::le volume est coupé16:10
lcuk_workthere appears to be a rather large badger in my trousers::16:10
lcuk_workil semble plutôt être un grand blaireau dans mon pantalon16:10
rm_youboolean: dunno, feel free to make revisions if you actually know french :P16:10
rm_youboolean: that translation was posted on the forums16:10
rm_youoh god16:10
booleanwill do16:10
rm_youÄänimerkki äänenvoimakkuuden muuttuessa16:10
rm_youis there a better way to say that?16:11
wndnot really16:11
lcuk_workrm_you, get used to it, english a pretty compact language16:11
rm_you"Beep on volume change" "Beep when volume changes"16:11
rm_youyeah, k... will need to do a linebreak then16:11
rm_youit makes the dialog look horribly stretched16:12
boolean"sonne au changement du volume"16:12
wndthe biggest problem with finnish translations is that most of the time people translate word-by-word and not the message16:12
booleanugh .. too long16:12
rm_youwnd: do you know finnish?16:12
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wndbeing a finn, to some degree16:13
rm_youwnd: care to review the translation file?16:13
lcuk_workare you a tailfin or dorsal?16:13
Kegetystry to translate "hae lakkaa satamasta kun lakkaa satamasta" word-by-word :P16:13
wndrm_you, I suppose you have a url handly16:14
rm_youwnd: working on it... takes me like 30 minutes to browse through to it on garage16:14
wndif it was pasted here I could grep my logs16:14
jottah the "Asetukset" are the other maemo "Settings..." strings also missing the "..."?16:16
booleanrm_you: which forum was the french translation mentioned?16:17
jottitt i guess ;)16:17
jottbut really feel free to tell us what could be written better..16:17
wndthere's a typo on third line from the bottom. it should be "Haluatko", not "Haluakto". I'm thinking of rephrasing that whole thing, it's really just a word-by-word translation.16:19
booleanactually I going to take it to my translater here in the office to a proper french translation16:19
jottwnd: and the "..." are they used in the other places or not?16:19
jottboolean: heh nice ;)16:19
wndI remember seeing a maemo platform specs that says that ellipsis should be there16:19
wndiirc ellipsis should be used if the menu item opens another dialog or window16:20
GeneralAntillesFF3 on OS X has go to be the slowest browser I've used in the last 3 years.16:20
aquatixon linux it quite rocks16:21
aquatixwhen you ignore flashplayer16:21
aquatix[quite crashy, that pos]16:21
NaviFlash 10 beta isnt too crashy16:21
NaviIve only had it crash once after a few weeks, when it used to crash regularly16:22
rm_youflash 10 beta? for linux, or?16:23
NaviYes, for linux16:23
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pupnik_one can hardly imagine that blobs aren't being abused by some agent(s) to insert trojans that get activated only when fed certain streams16:24
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rm_youi like that they're doing equal opportunity releases this cycle :)16:26
NaviTheyre probably developing flash in a way that makes sense, so its normal16:27
wndI hate thinking of proper translations. short instructional messages like this should be kept short, simple, and right to the point. the problem is that I hate short sentences.16:27
jottwnd hah i had the same problem when translating it to german ;)16:28
lcuk_workwnd, rm_you will add scroll bars to the labels for you if it helps :D16:28
NaviOh yeah, the adv-backlight applet box is hooge16:28
rm_youi wish i knew more languages...16:28
wndI'm thinking of "Haluatko varmasti sallia taustavalon sammuttamisen? \n Näyttö saattaa olla lukukelvoton taustavalon sammuttua. Taustavalon kytkeminen takaisin päälle voi olla tällöin vaikeaa."16:28
rm_youi very often attempt to be terse16:28
jottNavi: finger-friendly ;)16:29
NaviIs that what you call it? I call it a waste of space :P16:29
lcuk_workvisible from orbit :)16:29
GeneralAntillesNavi, it's a freaking applet.16:29
* lcuk_work does not mind one bit 16:29
GeneralAntillesWho cares how much space it uses?16:29
wndany comments from other finns?16:29
rm_youi KNOW lcuk_work is a fan of that :P16:29
GeneralAntillesIt's not like you're doing anything other than changing one of its settings when it's open.16:29
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GeneralAntillesWhat, do you want to browse the web when it's open?16:30
NaviGeneralAntilles, thats a question that doesnt need asking16:30
lcuk_workhe  wants to see if its bright enough to still see skin tones but dark enough so noone behind him can see ;)16:30
rm_youthen how is it a waste of space :P16:30
wndhmm does "brightness step size" make sense? wouldn't that be "brightness adjustment step size" or "brightness (adjustment) resolution"?-)16:32
johnxrm_you, speaking of browsing the web, why not just embed a web browser?16:32
aquatixlcuk_work: lol16:32
Navijohnx, why not call it emacs?16:33
jottwnd: possibly .. now it's too late :P16:33
rm_youwnd: my original wording was "brightness increment"16:33
jottstring freeze :)16:33
johnxNaked, cause it's python not lisp16:33
rm_you^^ Navi16:33
rm_yougot as far as Na :P16:34
wndjott, you should've used cryptic translation ids instead ;-)16:34
rm_youI actually hate the way this version of xchat makes tab completion select the first name and cycle instead of acting like BASH tab completion16:34
wndbut seriously speaking I don't see why one couldn't create a separate translation file for english, even if it was native language of the application16:35
rm_youwnd: that is an interesting point16:35
NaviI like the way weechat does its tab completion16:35
jottwnd: hehe16:35
wndrm_you, you're talking about xchat2, pre-gtk2 version used to do it like bash16:35
jottwnd: well it's not hard to change the string and update the translation files16:35
jottthough it would just generate some fuzzy translations now :)16:35
wndsure, but it's not necessary, really16:36
jottand actually en_US and en_EN really differ ;)16:36
rm_youjott: technically only if they are word for word translations... if they are contectual, then they already translated it better than we did, and would translate our changed string the same way :P16:37
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infobotrm_you meant: jott: technically only if they are word for word translations... if they are contextual, then they already translated it better than we did, and would translate our changed string the same way :P16:37
* GeneralAntilles should probably figure out how the hell Mozilla preferences work at some point.16:37
jottrm_you: yeah sure, still the translation would be fuzzy as we don't know it's exact meaning ;)16:37
rm_youbut they are all already marked as fuzzy >_<16:37
jottno :P16:37
jottnot anymore ;)16:37
jottwell we can see, wnd has a point in improving the english string..16:38
* GeneralAntilles kills himself.16:38
GeneralAntillesWhy can't I set general.useragent.override in prefs.js?16:39
NaviEveryone party, GeneralAntilles is dead16:39
* jott takes GeneralAntilles internet tablets and vanishes16:39
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jottGeneralAntilles: can't you just set the stuff in about:config?16:41
GeneralAntillesI don't want to tap that shit out on a virtual keyboard.16:41
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rm_youGeneralAntilles: copy/paste it >_>16:41
GeneralAntillesrm_you, from where? :P16:41
GeneralAntillesIM it to myself first.16:41
jottxterm? ;)16:41
GeneralAntillesI just want to ssh in and change it with vi16:41
rm_youor scp a text file and open it16:42
GeneralAntillesbut for some goddamn reason I can't do that.16:42
rm_youor ssh in and wall it16:42
rm_youdoesn't matter how16:42
GeneralAntillesprefs.js doesn't seem to keep settings changes.16:42
aquatixGeneralAntilles: close Fx first16:42
GeneralAntillesabout:config doesn't keep settings changes, either.16:43
lcuk_workGeneralAntilles, ensure the browser is closed16:43
lcuk_workand not running16:43
GeneralAntilleslcuk_work, yes, I've tried every which way.16:43
GeneralAntillesIncluding, now, from about:config16:43
lcuk_workyour browser fails16:43
GeneralAntillesMicroB, yes.16:43
* GeneralAntilles sends an angry email to Apple instead.16:43
GeneralAntillesHi, dneary.16:44
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dnearyGeneralAntilles: Thank you thank you thank you!16:44
lcuk_workhi dneary \o16:44
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dnearyHi lcuk16:44
* lcuk_work better get back to work16:44
* jott too16:44
dnearylcuk_work: So you reckon that CCing maemo-developers for WPotD will make things a bit better?16:44
GeneralAntillesdneary, no.16:45
GeneralAntillesIt didn't work before. :P16:45
aquatixfeh, work16:45
* aquatix is at work16:45
aquatixmentally though... ;)16:45
dnearyI really need a Scratchbox user to test Valgrind + gdb wiki page16:45
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lcuk_workdneary, personally yes, i managed to read an article every day, however it didnt make any difference to my p[ersonal editing - ive still nto found where i fit in with documentation16:46
GeneralAntillesdneary, I've been trying to get a scratchbox user to flesh out the _real_ wikipedia article on the SDK for months now.16:46
GeneralAntillesGood luck with that. ;)16:46
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dnearylcuk_work: It's fairly easy - there are two aspects to editing an article: 1. replacing outdated information with more accurate information, and 2. revising the tone of the page to make it clearer. If you're a good writer, you can do 2 without doing 1, if you're technical but not a great writer you can do 1 without doing 2.16:47
dnearyGeneralAntilles: Thanks :)16:47
dnearyWho were you talking to?16:47
lcuk_workdneary, from my side i only know the 810 and would not know what was safe to remove or not.  and most of all, im crap at #2 - i prefer to be in the engine room :)16:48
dnearyI could ask some of the OH guys maybe...16:48
dnearyToday is July 14th here, défilé militaire, fireworks, parades, Tour de France mountain stage, public holiday16:49
lcuk_workmust dash though16:49
lcuk_workback later16:49
* Navi yawns16:49
dnearyThe cyclists are 4km from the summit of the Tourmalet now16:49
dnearyHi Navi16:49
dnearyNavi: Do you know about modifying a jffs image?16:49
dnearyGeneralAntilles: In the absence of an update, I think we should just remove the Midgard tags on that now - it's not going to get any better short-term16:50
dnearyBe back in a little while - celebrating Sean's birthday.16:51
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wizahow can I enable virtual keyboard on n81016:56
wizasome finger gesture?16:57
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booleanwierd .. ever since I added the avanced-backlight with the languages, the text on some apps are acting up17:01
booleanexample: the list from the "select applets" from the home icon show the package names  ( rr_ap_new_reader ... )17:02
rm_youyeah, loading apps is giving me weird things now too17:04
rm_youlike when i loaded firefox, the little notice thing said like... "ckct_ib_application_loading"17:05
rm_youwhich i've never seen before17:05
rm_younormally it used to say something like "Loading browser"17:05
mgedmin"with the languages"? what does that mean?17:05
aquatixrm_you: you totally borked a slew of tablets!17:05
mgedminyou're seeing untranslated message IDs because there are no translation files for your locale17:05
aquatixmgedmin: localised version17:06
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mgedminaquatix: more specifics?17:06
rm_youmgedmin: we are just releasing a beta of advanced-backlight including localizations17:06
rm_youand since the install, this happens17:06
mgedminif all you're doing is shipping extra .po files, that shouldn't break other programs17:06
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rm_youdon't know how it would affect other apps17:06
mgedminunless you're somehow overwriting a file that belongs to the os17:06
rm_youi wonder17:06
mgedminbut dpkg won't let you do that17:06
rm_youis it possible we named them wrong?17:07
rm_youjott: ?17:07
aquatixmgedmin: 14:49:26          jott | ok again with bumped version number: <- first test package with de es fi fr nl17:07
rm_youbut weird17:07
rm_youwe didn't SHIP an english locale, but it messing with my current english region stuff too17:07
booleanbtw I added some french translation to the forum17:08
* mgedmin will take a look17:08
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mgedminhey, are you calling gettext methods like settranslationdomain() in your plugin?17:09
rm_youI have NO idea how to do the accents... anyone help with that?17:09
mgedminthat's global to the process17:09
mgedminwhich means you're overriding the translation domain for the whole hildon-desktop17:09
rm_youmgedmin: to my knowledge we're just using gettext(text)17:10
mgedminwhere could I see the source code?17:10
mgedminweb-browseable svn repository would be quickest17:10
mgedmineek, coworkers demand my presence in a short status meeting right now17:10
mgedminback soon17:10
rm_you  setlocale (LC_ALL, "");17:10
rm_you  bindtextdomain (GETTEXT_PACKAGE, LOCALE_DIR);17:10
rm_you  bind_textdomain_codeset (GETTEXT_PACKAGE, "UTF-8");17:10
rm_you  textdomain (GETTEXT_PACKAGE);17:10
rm_youthat's all of the gettext stuff17:11
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aquatixoh, that link is broken17:11
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RST38hah, the wonders of localization...17:20
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aquatixRST38h: where you one of the modest devvers?17:23
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Bugzilla plugin installed, but doesn't work yet.17:24
* aquatix wonders when svn weekly snapshots of modest for diablo will be available17:24
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, yeah, saw that.17:26
* GeneralAntilles is excited.17:26
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: But can't reach the database yet ;) So we need the ISP to set that up ;)17:26
rm_youGeneralAntilles: you going to do the porting?17:26
rm_youGeneralAntilles: I closed a lot of the tasks/bugs, so you have significantly less to do :P17:27
rm_youof bugs17:27
rm_youfor us :P17:27
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GeneralAntillesGarage in Bugzilla has nothing to do with this.17:27
GeneralAntillesThis is the mediawiki plugin.17:27
rm_youah :(17:27
rm_youbut cool :P17:27
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GeneralAntillesBut, yeah, when we roll around to that point (/me pokes andre____ repeatedly) I will. ;)17:28
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qwerty12Ok, I've uploaded my easyroot clone (with rootsh) to extras-devel. I've tested it on my device fine (after removing easyroot fine) but I would appreciate more testers before uploading to extras. It's in chinook and diablo extras-devel. Thanks.17:32
qwerty12Oops, package is called rootsh.17:32
GeneralAntillesDoes sudo gainroot work?17:33
qwerty12Yes, I tried it this morning.17:33
qwerty12I've also shoved in the easyroot "root" command too.17:33
summatusmentiswhy is there an easyroot clone?17:33
summatusmentisfor the hell of it?17:33
GeneralAntillesBecause the author of easyroot sucks17:33
GeneralAntillesand wont put his stuff in Extras17:33
qwerty12Because the easyroot guy wouldn't respond to GA's request to upload in extras.17:34
GeneralAntilleseasyroot is _already_ a clone of becomeroot, anyway.17:34
mgedminrm_you: that textdomain() call is your problem17:34
mgedminunfortunately, I don't know how to solve it :(17:35
mgedminwait, maybe I know17:35
rm_youis it?17:35
mgedminuse dgettext instead of gettext17:35
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, works fine here.17:35
rm_youjohnx: gah... can't decide17:36
rm_you    or
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Cool, thanks for testing. I'll give it another run and if I am satisfied, I'll promote it.17:36
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, then all that's left is to get the word out. ;)17:36
GeneralAntillesIs it in Chinook Extras, too?17:36
jott~lart gtk+ tutorials about i18n :/17:36
* infobot stabs gtk+ tutorials about i18n :/17:36
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Chinook Extras-devel so far.17:37
johnxrm_you, truly your life is hard. I have no freaking idea. :P17:37
mgedminrm_you: hildon-desktop uses gettext for i18n, right?  and it needs the "maemo-af-desktop" text domain, probably17:37
rm_youthis is a nightmare...17:37
GeneralAntilleser, yeah, that's what I meant. :D Cool.17:37
mgedminnow you are doing i18n in the same process, but you want the "advanced-backlight" text domain17:37
rm_youah, i will do one today and one tomorrow!17:37
rm_you... but WHICH TODAY!? >_<17:37
mgedmintherefore you can't both use the same global text domain that is being set by textdomain()17:37
GeneralAntillesrm_you, the second one.17:38
mgedminwhat you could do instead, is replace gettext("a message") with gettext("advanced-backlight", "a message")17:38
mgedminwhat you could do instead, is replace gettext("a message") with dgettext("advanced-backlight", "a message")17:38
mgedminnow, gettext uses macros to make life easier17:38
rm_youyeah we have one17:38
mgedmintherefore you get _("a message") instead of gettext("a message") in the source code17:38
rm_you#define _(text) gettext(text)17:38
rm_you#define _(text) dgettext("advanced-backlight", text)17:38
mgedminand textdomain(GETTEXT_PACKAGE) instead of textdomain("advanced-backlight")17:38
mgedminI'd probably use #define _(text) dgettext(GETTEXT_PACKAGE, text)17:39
rm_youjott: can you test that? still no buildbox here17:39
jottyeah i can give it a shot17:39
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qwerty12Ok, it installs fine, it uninstalls fine and conflicting packages are specified. Time for promotion :)17:45
qwerty12The easyroot clone.17:46
tank-manwhat does the package do?17:47
tank-manlet you use sudo gainroot?17:47
qwerty12Same thing as easyroot tbh, I only did it out of convenience so I don't have to get my ass onto :)17:48
* aquatix just did the trick with sshd17:48
tank-manme too, i just commented out the R&D check by ssh'ing in17:48
* mgedmin just does visudo after ssh'ing in17:49
aquatixsudo su -17:50
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aquatixshould set an evilly long pw17:50
aquatixso i would be typing for two minutes on the n810's kb to get root ;)17:50
tank-man"my password is just the letter A"17:50
aquatixtank-man: ip?17:50
* mgedmin knows a person who uses ` as a password17:51
qwerty12/msg NickServ identify a17:51
lcuk_worklittle bobby tables?17:51
* aquatix thinks he knows which person mgedmin means ;)17:51
summatusmentislcuk_work: :)17:51
aquatixmgedmin: what's your ip and username? ;)17:51
mgedminit's related17:51
aquatixlcuk_work: ghehehe17:51
mgedminwhen you register the account and get an error from that, you know you don't want to trust them with your data17:52
aquatixi should do that trick in a few years17:52
mgedminlcuk_work: you don't know him17:52
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mgedminthat last thing was supposed to be directed to aquatix, not lcuk...17:53
* mgedmin loves xkcd17:53
qwerty12hi lardman17:54
lcuk_workall is good in the world then17:54
lardmanhey qwerty1217:54
aquatixmgedmin: ah ;)17:54
lcuk_workhey lardman, still got your hat?17:54
X-Fadetemplace #maemo17:54
mgedminthat was probably some irssi command?17:54
lardmanlcuk_work: hat?17:54
lcuk_worklol lardman, we were discussin xkcd again17:54
X-Fademgedmin: Hmm no, typo and wrong window ;)17:55
lcuk_workanyway,ill bob back later17:55
* lardman is confused17:56
jottmh mgedmin this does not seem to help as it seems, :/17:56
jottmaybe setting the textdomain is not working within a plugin?17:57
mgedminjott: that's unpossible!17:57
jotti.e. we have to use the same textdomain as the parent17:57
mgedminyes, exactly17:57
mgedminyou can only use one global text domain in a process17:57
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jottok makes sense17:57
mgedminalso, calling setlocale from a plugin is a bit unfriendly17:57
jottyeah i already removed it17:58
mgedminI think everything should work if you just call bindtextdomain, bind_textdomain_codeset, and then use dgetttext(GETTEXT_PACKAGE, ...)17:58
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mgedminnon-object-oriented C apis suck17:58
jottbindtextdomain seems to alter the textdomain too :/17:59
mgedminmaybe I'm wrong about GETTEXT_PACKAGE resolving to "advanced-backlight"17:59
jottso probably just dgettext(MAEMO_GETTEXT_PACKAGE, "") should work?17:59
jottno GETTEXT_PACKAGE is advanced-backlight18:00
mgedminyou need to call bindtextdomain to tell gettext where to find your .mo file18:00
jottbut i though we need to set GETTEXT_PACKAGE = PARENT_GETTEXT_PACKAGE ?18:00
mgedminno, that would be very bad18:00
mgedminyou want to use two message catalogs at once18:01
* jott probably has to read some docs and not just follow a random tutorial :/18:01
mgedminthat means two different text domains18:01
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jottah ok..18:01
jottso. bindtextdomain sets the global default domain18:02
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jottand bindtextdomain sets a path for a specific one18:02
* jott gives it another try18:03
andre____anybody with an N800 able to repro bug 3300?18:03
jottso textdomain is evil :)18:03
jottatleast in plugins ;)18:04
mgedminjott: you've got it!18:04
jottyeah man pages to the rescue ;)18:04
wndiirc calling bindtextdomain() and using dgettext() should be enough18:05
jottwnd: yeah that's what i ended up with now18:05
mgedminthis could be a topic for a blog post18:05
jotti also forced utf-8 for bind_textdomain_codeset  the domain18:05
mgedmin"how to do translated hildon plugins"18:05
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* mgedmin doesn't know if that's good or bad18:06
* mgedmin not a big gettext expert18:06
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* mgedmin never even knew about bind_textdomain_codeset before today18:06
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johnxStskeeps, finally fixed my stupid typos and got debian installing again. how the heck did you hack up screen dimming?!18:08
jottwe use utf-8 in all of our message so this should be ok18:08
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rm_youjohnx: would something like an advanced-backlight port be useful, or is backlight/volume/rotation support all covered? :P18:10
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johnxrm_you, I guess Stskeeps did get the dsme stuff working...18:10
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johnxI'd be more comfortable not using it when we don't need to though :/18:10
rm_youlol yeah, agree18:11
rm_youbut is there a better way to control it in debian?18:11
qwerty12johnx, do you have an howto with grabbing debian with the latest pimped up stuff by you and Stskeeps? :)18:11
jottphew ok18:11
johnxrm_you, yeah with /sys :P and alsamixer18:11
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johnxqwerty12, from diablo? I can send you a tarball of what I just installed I guess18:12
jottupdated  thanks for the help and testing18:12
johnxqwerty12, I mean a tarball of the installer18:12
qwerty12johnx, ah, sigh, yes, the installer would be nice please18:12
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jottjohnx: yeah well adv-backlight could be made portable without big effort18:13
jottnokia 770  is already in..18:13
jottso adding support for generic /sys and hal is straight forward18:13
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, stick an announcement for rootsh on itT?18:14
johnxgood deal18:14
jottatleast if you run hildon..18:14
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, I'm not so bothered about announcing it, the majority of people already use easyroot and I don't see any advantages in this :)18:15
GeneralAntillesI do. ;)18:15
GeneralAntillesIt's in Extras, and much better to recommend to newbies.18:15
GeneralAntillesPeople need to know it exists18:15
GeneralAntilleswhether or not they switch to it themselves18:15
Atariisame, sudo gainroot works as well as root, that an advantage also18:15
GeneralAntillesthey should be recommending it to all new users.18:15
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qwerty12Hmm, fair points. I'll wait until it is populated in extras first though.18:16
X-Fadeqwerty12: Is there a garage project for it?18:16
qwerty12X-Fade, no. (Thanks for invite btw)18:16
X-Fadeqwerty12: Ah, I could have promoted the story to the frontpage then :)18:17
Stskeepsjohnx: dsme.py18:17
rm_youjott: increase build number every time you make a build public >_>18:17
jottrm_you: heh this are non public builds :p18:17
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Stskeepsqwerty12: svn checkout svn://
Stskeepsor the installer johnx just mentioned ;)18:18
rm_youjott: the second it goes on the internet it is public18:18
qwerty12X-Fade, Ah. I thought that it got updated automatically when it was uploaded to extras or am I just confused?18:18
qwerty12Stskeeps, Thanks18:18
Stskeepsjohnx's include diablo fixes so18:18
johnxStskeeps, I need to checkin the hald-addon-bme fixes18:18
johnxbut I don't even know if they work O_o18:18
rm_youjott: if there are ANY changes to the build, it should not have the same version as a previous build, if you release it on the internet.18:18
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, how often are the .installs generated?18:18
X-Fadeqwerty12: Two separate things ;) I was talking about an announcement, you /downloads ;)18:18
Stskeepsjohnx: well if lshal | grep battery works, they work18:18
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: For diablo, never.18:19
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: That is what I posted to -developers about, but nobody seems to care.18:19
qwerty12X-Fade, Ooh, my bad. Heh, /downloads is enough for me :)18:19
johnxStskeeps, Houston, we have battery!18:19
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GeneralAntillesHehe, right, I know, but for Chinook?18:19
GeneralAntillesThe Chinook .installs don't have a distribution field.18:20
GeneralAntillesSo it really doesn't matter.18:20
GeneralAntillesAs long as the same package exists in Diablo Extras I can use that.18:20
GeneralAntillesI need a rootsh .install for the wiki page.18:20
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Only when a package gets uploaded with dput. Promotion suffers from the same problem as diablo.18:20
qwerty12I uploaded it using web interface :/18:20
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Problem is those packages don't pass through the incoming queue, where the install is generated.18:21
X-FadeWe need to rewrite the promotion interface to use the proper incoming queue for extras.18:21
jottrm_you: better not have broken packages out there ;>18:21
X-FadeHelp appreciated btw ;D18:21
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jottbut i think we are getting towards stable now ;)18:22
rm_youmuch closer, yes18:24
rm_youstill needs testing on 77018:24
rm_youi guarantee there's a crash currently18:24
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rm_youbecause i never changed it18:24
rm_youon 770, if you try to change volume above 12418:24
rm_youno idea why18:24
Stskeepsjohnx: for chinook we'd prolly have a mix of hald-addon-retu-adc and bme-dbus-proxy or something.. but if people want the perfect experience they should get the hald-addon-bme18:24
Stskeeps(from diablo)18:24
rm_youbrightness, not volume18:25
jottah.. so just restrict it on the 770?18:25
jottlike max_brightness = is_n770 ? 127 : 124; ?18:25
rm_youno... it should work18:25
rm_youit must be broken somehow18:26
rm_younot sure why18:26
rm_youi believe <_<18:26
johnxStskeeps, anyone who's on a tablet has the right to download can we just grab the packages direct from the repo?18:26
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Stskeepsjohnx: i'm not sure it's in repo?18:26
Stskeepsif it is, sure18:26
* johnx checks18:26
rm_youI wish I had a 770 to test, or a 2008HE build environment to test in18:26
qwerty12Direct from diablo tableteer repo? You would need the password or apply the apt-get patch ;)18:26
rm_youerr, to build in. as it is now, we have to wait for autobuilder to make test packages18:27
rm_youwhich is 45 minutes each try18:27
jottaren't there folks with a running 770 toolchain and a 770 out there? ;)18:27
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, updated
johnxqwerty12, does chinook apt-get have the patch needed?18:28
GeneralAntillesStill need a .install, though.18:28
GeneralAntillesjohnx, no.18:28
qwerty12johnx, iirc no.18:28
johnxstupid situation18:28
qwerty12too late :)18:28
GeneralAntillesYou could just put the username and password in the sources.list18:28
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Nice, thanks.18:29
johnxis that kosher?18:29
GeneralAntillesWell, depends.18:29
GeneralAntillesWhat sort of kosher? ;)18:29
rm_youqwerty12: could i get your opera for 2008 deb? :P18:29
johnxGeneralAntilles, does it have pig in it?18:29
qwerty12rm_you, It's not mine, it's Bundyo's. But PM on the way :)18:29
GeneralAntillesjohnx, legally it's a bit gray, technically it's fine.18:30
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, make a rootsh announcement so I can cheerlead for it. ;)18:30
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johnxyeah, now that we're doing things "the right way" it'd be nice to be completely legal18:30
GeneralAntillesCan't you use Diablo's apt?18:31
johnxwe'd have to download it if we were on chinook...18:31
johnxfrom the repo18:31
GeneralAntillesAh, right.18:31
johnxthough actually, the password is applied as a patch to apt-get, right?18:32
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johnxso the password is GPLed18:32
GeneralAntillesThat still doesn't solve the legal issues. ;)18:32
GeneralAntillesand the password isn't GPLed18:32
qwerty12johnx, you could just build your own apt from the source too and just upload it somewhere?18:32
GeneralAntillesthe code for generating the password is GPLed18:32
johnxGeneralAntilles, alright, so I'll look at the code and make a reimplementation in sh18:33
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, When it's properly populated in extras, that's when I'll announce it.18:33
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qwerty12But it's not in Packages so it won't show up :P18:33
GeneralAntillesI'd say that if you use similar code to generate the password based on the same information that Nokia uses, then you're probably mostly OK.18:34
qwerty12"There is a library in maemo somewhere to do this, but it is not included in the maemo SDK, so we have to do it ourselves.  Ridiculous, I know." - Sounds like libdsme to me :/18:35
GeneralAntillesSo, if you're on a tablet generating the username and password from information about that tablet, they therefore own a tablet and should legally have access to the repo.18:35
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: well, installer must be run on a tablet, so18:35
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rm_youHAHAHAHAthey do product_hardware checking the same way I do18:36
rm_youand you all called me insane!18:36
GeneralAntillesLaughing like that . . .18:37
rm_youlol... the password is from Wargames :P18:37
qwerty12rm_you, get me libdsme and I'll laugh with you (cal.h in there would tell you the hardware :P)18:37
GAN800~lart Nokia for being dumb18:38
* infobot blasts Nokia to oblivion with a kamehameha wave for being dumb18:38
boolean /ws 118:38
Stskeepsis lock code in CAL?18:38
johnxwait a sec, so apt checks the hardware, then if it's good it uses the password it already knows?!18:38
qwerty12Stskeeps, yes18:38
rm_youlol yes18:39
rm_youkinda dumb :P18:39
GeneralAntillesjohnx, not exactly18:39
GeneralAntillesIt generates a username and password based on the hardware.18:39
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rm_youi'm not seeing that18:39
johnxGeneralAntilles, did you read the source?18:39
GeneralAntillesstring user = string ("NOKIA-OSSO-") + string (product_hardware);18:39
qwerty12Look at the product_hardware function at the top.18:39
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GeneralAntillesand I figured out the username and password based on the source. ;)18:40
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rm_youwell yeah, but that doesnt really matter18:40
johnxI figured they'd use it for the password not username, but I guess it's the same difference18:40
GeneralAntillesFor my convoluted legal justification it does. :)18:40
johnxI just looked at the password section18:40
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rm_youYAY i got my buildbox back18:42
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GAN800lol . . . right, I was reproducing #3300.18:47
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GeneralAntillesandre____, no, can't reproduce.18:51
andre____hmm. thanks anyway :)18:51
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Stskeepsqwerty12: well lock code is fetched in a weird way in dsme.. look at powered.. maybe it fetches it from CAL?18:56
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qwerty12Stskeeps, CAL is the final place where the code is stored.18:56
qwerty12(you can cat /dev/mtd2ro  to a file and search for lockcode to find it in cal)18:57
rm_youis there a version of "strings" for maemo?18:58
mgedminthere was once18:59
mgedminhow I wish maemo had command-not-found18:59
Stskeepsqwerty12: well i note it is fetched using lock_code so i wonder if its a way to fetch from CAL in a generic way19:00
Stskeepsstring "lock_code"19:00
jottrm_you: there is a binutils package19:00
jott diablo/tools/free19:00
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Cptnodegardis the chinook extras repo down or something? some newbie i have here with a diablo n810 close to returning it in lack of canola and mplayer says it wont refresh :319:01
qwerty12Stskeeps, break into and we'll find out :P. mce can retrieve the lock code from functions provided by cal.h afaik.19:02
rm_youyeah, got it19:02
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megabyte405Cptnodegard: there is not a lot of stuff for diablo yet, and canola is not perfect on it - look at for more info19:03
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Cptnodegardmegabyte405 i know, thats why im getting him to add the chinook repo... .but i think i found the error19:05
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lardmangood good, sbc encoder working ok with ARM running at 400MHz19:06
pH5lardman: you rock19:06
qwerty12lardman, I think you are great.19:06
pH5(good evening, everybody)19:07
qwerty12Lol I wish brontide had told me to throw in the futex patch before I started compiling >.<19:07
lardmanhmm, no dropouts at all, even at 133MHz (or whatever the slow DSP speed is) :)19:08
qwerty12Yes, 133 :)19:08
* lardman feels happy :)19:08
crashanddielardman, say, how big are you on bluetooth ?19:08
qwerty12lardman, Just out of question, are you using that sysfs patch?19:08
lardmancrashanddie:  not great, but I can try19:08
qwerty12Or was it an dvfs edit?19:08
lardmanqwerty12: yes, thanks19:08
lardmandvfs patch19:09
qwerty12Cool, thanks, mind telling me how it works? :P19:09
lardmanwhat, the patch?19:09
qwerty12Oh :)19:09
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qwerty12It doesn't matter, I thought you were using that patch, I know how to edit the dvfs :)19:09
lardmanI am using that patch...19:09
* qwerty12 is confused. It doesn't matter, congrats on your latest achievement19:10
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crashanddielardman, apparently my SDP daemon is having problems... I have a bluetooth mouse that worked fine, had to change it, now this bluetooth mouse won't pair, name request times out, but it still pairs fine with NIT/PS3/MacBook... I've been debugging the whole damned thing for days, and am getting nowhere... Plus, the help on #bluez-users is pretty thin19:10
lardmandvfs is altered through /sys/power/*19:10
lardmancrashanddie: no sorry, I've no idea I'm afraid :(19:11
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crashanddieyeah, I figured it was a long shot, still worth the try though19:11
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KnowledgeTo Wimax to not to Wimax...that is the question...anyone know how much Wimax will be in the US?19:17
rm_youi hope semi-decently priced, though current wireless internet plans BLOW19:18
rm_youWimax uses the same thing as clearwire, right?19:18
GAN800$30-$60 per month19:18
Knowledgeoh no...don't tell me that...19:18
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Knowledgeclearwire doesn't just fucking sucks19:18
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rm_youi believe clearwise IS wimax...19:19
Knowledgepfft...non-wimax 810 it is....19:19
rm_youbut don't quote me19:19
crashanddieKnowledge, would make a good wifey19:19
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Knowledgewhat the?19:19
KnowledgeI'm a dude...19:19
rm_youyeah i am confused too19:19
crashanddieand you're pretty thick with that...19:19
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crashanddieyou said "it fuck'n' sucks"... That sounds like a good wife to me :)19:20
johnxrm_you, pretty sure clearwire is still "pre/draft wimax" or somesuch19:20
rm_youthe command instead of colon confused me :P19:20
infobotrm_you meant: the comma instead of colon confused me :P19:20
johnxthey'll swtich to "mobile wimax" to be compatible with the n810we19:20
crashanddielike I said... Pretty thick :P19:20
rm_youyou should use colon as your nick autocomplete character :P19:21
rm_youless confusion19:21
Knowledgeso yeah...screw wimax...because if it's anything like how clearwire
rm_youeh, seems fine here19:22
rm_youand better than edge/3g IMO19:22
johnxit all depends on the area19:22
Knowledgewell yeah, that's true...19:23
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johnxit doesn't have the same kind of coverage as cell networks but it's potentially faster I think19:23
rm_youway faster19:23
rm_youpretty much DSL speed if i remember correctly from when i sold it :P19:23
GAN8003G is currently way faster than WiMAX19:24
rm_youhow fast is 3g?19:24
KnowledgeEvdo Rev 0....19:24
Knowledge2.4 mbps19:24
rm_youclearwire did 3Mb down IIRC19:24
GAN8003G is 7.6Mbps and 14.4 soon19:24
Knowledgegood Lord!19:24
rm_youah wow19:24
rm_youi thought they were still stuck at < 1mb19:24
GAN800WiMAX maxes at 6 atm19:24
Knowledgeshit, I might have to switch carriers.19:24
rm_youwho supports 3g in the US?19:25
johnxtmobile in some markets19:25
KnowledgeI didn't know 3G was that fast.19:25
* rm_you uses T-Mobile19:25
johnxrm_you, you mean any 3G or just UMTS/HSDPA?19:25
rm_youI mean, whatever GAN is talking about that does 7.6Mbps19:25
GAN8003.6Mbps with the more average cellphones.19:26
johnxyeah...depending on the area19:26
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crashanddieI want wireless FiOS speeds :P19:26
KnowledgeI, I really like my carrier though.19:26
GAN800Coverage isn't perfect, but at least it actually exists. ;)19:27
KnowledgeI pay $50 for unlimited minutes (roaming and long distance not inluded)...and an extra $10 for "easyedge"...which is to download apps to the phone, but I could tether with EvDO yet19:28
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rm_youhrm, only in new york, for t-mobile at least19:30
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jottno you only have to get the 3.6-7.2Mbps to the NIT :P19:31
johnxah, well. no rush19:31
jotthow good is actually wifi sharing with the n95 and other wifi phones?19:31
johnxI'll look at the situation again in the US next year :)19:31
KnowledgeWho here has a 770 with 07HE on it?19:31
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Atariii have 08HE19:33
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rm_youjohnx: yeah they say way more cities by the end of the year19:34
rm_youi wonder if San Antonio or Seattle are either big enough targets19:34
KnowledgeSee, I'm having an issue with dpad scrolling in the browser, if I hit down (for instance) it goes to the next link and scrolls down. If I stop and continue, it goes down another link and starts scrolling down from where that link is as opposed to where I was.....does that make any sense?19:34
rm_youi would think Seattle would be19:34
GAN800Knowledge, turn off snav.19:35
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KnowledgeGAN800: where can I find that?19:41
Knowledgewoo hoo!19:41
* pupnik might be able to make it to Maemo Summit :)19:41
johnxStskeeps, is usb host working for you under debian?19:42
KnowledgeGAN800: found it.19:43
Stskeepsjohnx: Capn_Fish had similar issues19:44
Stskeepsi don't have adaptor for usb host19:44
johnxalright, I'll dig into it19:44
johnxI'm assuming it's a debian/diablo interaction :/19:45
Stskeepsofcourse usbnet-emergency-telnetd loads g_ether but he claimed it wasn't loaded19:45
johnxI already caught that and disabled it19:45
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johnxI'l see what's up...19:45
Stskeepsand i don't do echo host > stuff either but he also claimed that didn't work19:46
johnxyeah, I'm not getting any output in dmesg from it19:46
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Stskeepsmodules are from your beta3 atleast19:50
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johnxhmm? which modules?19:50
johnxjust cx3110x, right?19:50
johnxaaah, for capn'fish19:51
Stskeepsfull /lib/modules19:51
johnxbut the kernel is different19:51
Stskeepsit's a new kernel?19:51
Stskeepsin diablo?19:51
johnxit's a recompile at least19:52
Stskeepssame uname -r?19:52
Stskeepser, -a19:52
johnx-r is 2.6.21-omap119:52
johnxthe compile is June 11th though19:52
Stskeepsanother diabloism i guess19:53
Stskeepsbut the modules would be loadable even with a recompile i guess19:53
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johnxyeah, but I have a theory19:54
qwerty12The kernel version is the same as chinook but I remember seeing a changelog for kernel-source-diablo, can't find it though :?19:54
Stskeepswhat did we end up regarding hal-addon? that because it's in and we would use a similar method to create the auth, it's okay?19:54
johnxStecchino, yeah, that makes sense19:56
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lcukmgedmin, ping19:56
johnxin reality, even if we're passing around our own MAC addresses, that's really our prerogative19:56
rm_yoummm ok headed to Samurai Noodle :P19:56
Stskeepsit's not even our mac addy that's being sent is it?19:57
mgedminlcuk: icmp echo reply19:57
johnxStskeeps, nope. but even if it was, it would still be legal19:57
johnxI hate nokia sometimes19:59
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johnxwe have to insmod g_file_storage on diablo for some reason19:59
Stskeeps.. for usb host?19:59
johnxIt seems to have code for the hub built in20:00
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Stskeepsg_file_storage from initfs?20:01
johnxyour installer dutifully copies it to /lib/modules though :)20:01
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Stskeeps.. we do?20:02
Stskeepsmy installer only gets the 2.6.21-omap1.tar.gz module pack, nothing from initfs20:02
johnxwell, I ended up with g_file_storage.ko under /lib/modules20:03
KnowledgeFlash (youtube, etc.) possible on a 700 07HE?20:03
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m-cI have one N800 that needs to be recharged every day, and I have another, older N800 that can last for almost a week.20:05
qwerty12Anyone quickly help me with this: ?20:06
m-cI tried to reflash the power hungry one, but it seems like a hardware problem.  Do you think getting a new battery would help?20:06
Stskeepsjohnx: that you installed yourself? what does dpkg -S g_file_storage.ko say?20:07
wndqwerty12, the first "for" is missing "done"20:07
qwerty12wnd, Ah, thank you.20:07
johnxStskeeps, module-pack20:07
wndand it's not whitespace-safe :-)20:08
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Stskeepsjohnx: okay, so that comes from the beta3 /lib/modules :)20:10
Stskeepsis in my tar.gz20:11
jottm-c: hwow about swapping the batteries and see if this helps?20:11
m-cjott: that's a good idea thanks20:11
Maximande1any idea why my GTK app, which looks fine on my computer, when run on maemo, doesn't have column headings on TreeViews?20:12
TPCmy N800 with diablo goes into a reboot loop when I start it20:12
TPCis there some way I can salvage it, or is reflasing the only option?20:12
qwerty12If you have an initfs image with fanoush's bootmenu nearby, flash it using macosx/linux and ssh into it using usbnet.20:13
qwerty12If you *really* have time, find the initfs image on the passworded tableteer repo, mount it up on the computer and add the bootmenu manually (I did this when it wasn't for diablo, comparing took me a while :P)20:15
johnxStskeeps, maybe it's just something in that module that causes the host part to wake up? *guesses*20:16
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johnxi mean, maybe there's another way to wake it up too20:18
yergaMaximande1, it's default in maemo gtk20:18
yergaMaximande1, you need set show the headers in code20:18
Stskeepsjohnx: g_file_storage is contradictive to having usb host though20:18
johnxit's loaded by diablo at boot20:19
johnxand it works for me now with it loaded...20:19
johnxI'll try and rmmod it and see if things go wonk20:19
johnxyup, usb host dies if I rmmod it20:20
Stskeepswell, that's just plain odd behaviour :)20:21
johnxI'd have to agree :)20:21
johnxBTW, you might want to switch to fb_update manual as X11 is started20:22
johnxit makes a huge difference20:22
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Stskeepsjust patch start-x-session's script20:22
Stskeepsmight as well make it standard :P20:24
johnxthat's what I meant :)20:24
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Maximande1yerga: i call label->show() on the labels set as widgets for each column. is that what you mean?20:36
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yergaMaximande1, no20:36
yergayou should pass the set_headers_visible to the treeview20:37
yergain python is treeview.set_headers_visible(True)20:37
yergain C i don't know ;)20:37
Maximande1thanks, I'll recompile and try that20:37
booleanws 120:38
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Maximande1yerga: how do I add things to the existing menu, rather than creating my own menu?20:44
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yergaMaximande1, how have you created the menu?20:46
Maximande1well, i'm coming from a desktop app model, so I use GtkMenu, with GtkMenuItem's for "File", "Edit", etc.20:47
aquatixwhere are the maemo menu files located?20:47
Maximande1and ten GtkMenuItems off those for things like "save", "load", etc20:48
Maximande1but then I have a menu bar across top, just like a normal desktop app20:48
qwerty12_N800aquatix, /usr/share/applications/hildon20:48
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Maximande1but i'd rather put things into the little drop down from the app title bar like all the usual maemo apps20:49
aquatixqwerty12_N800: ah, thanks20:49
V13Is there a way to (a) connect to itnernet with gprs from command line and (b) send a file via bluetooth from command line ?20:50
V13(for OS2008/Diablo)20:50
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yergaMaximande1, I generally create a and reparent each child from the menubar to the menu20:52
yergaset the to the hildon window20:53
yergaand delete the menubar20:53
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* Jaffa documented his approach somewhere; I think it was similar20:54
V13(any hints ?)20:54
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lcukcrap crap crap crap crap20:55
lcukand more crap crap crap20:55
Stskeepsrm -rf? :P20:55
JaffaV1e: maybe some DBUS doohicky?20:56
Jaffalcuk: problems?20:56
lcukaint there always :)20:56
JaffaV13: maybe some DBUS doohicky?20:56
Jaffalcuk: true20:56
JaffaMaximande1: for example20:58
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Maximande1Jaffa: thanks21:00
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RST38bisjaffa: here?21:00
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JaffaRST38bis: aye, but on phone connection so about to lose it21:04
RST38bisi'm also using the phone21:05
RST38biswanted to send you that mockup we talked about21:05
V13jaffa: I'm trying something similar :)21:05
V13jaffa: to emullate the gui21:05
V13btw, what is doohicky ?21:06
Jaffanearly home tho21:06
JaffaRST38h: nearly home21:06
RST38bisbut anyway, if you have a few minutes i can describe it in words21:06
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mgedminhey, can we get fixed please?21:08
mgedminI don't know mediawiki markup by heart21:08
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mgedminwhere are people staying for the maemo summit?21:11
mgedmincould you update with links to hotels?21:11
RST38bismgedmin: where in .lt are you btw?21:12
lcukhes in mg.pov.lt21:12
mgedmingeographically, Vilnius21:13
RST38bisah, that's far21:13
mgedminwould other places in .lt be closer? ;-)21:14
* RST38bis is in Palanga although you wouldn't tell it from whois21:14
RST38bistele2 is weird21:14
lcukback later21:14
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KnowledgeSo...about flash on the it possible?21:18
Knowledgeor is slower than shit?21:18
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mgedminit's barely fast enough to almost play the soundtrack of a youtube video without skipping, accompanied by a slide show21:19
mgedminoops, no youtube on a 77021:19
mgedminforgot it had an older flash player21:19
mgedminwhat I described was flash on the first os version on a n80021:19
mgedminlater OSes upgraded the CPU speed somewhat and deployed a more-optimized flash player21:19
lcukupdated cpu speed doesnt always work21:20
mgedminoh, right, the dsp frequency fix21:20
KnowledgeI see21:21
summatusmentisI hate being an adult... it means I have to pay bills :-/21:22
lcuksummatusmentis, since you are an adult will you pay my bills as well?21:23
RST38biskill someone to get incarcerated21:23
lcukthey charge you for that nowadays21:24
summatusmentislcuk: no, I barely have enough money to pay for my bills :)21:25
summatusmentiswhere is this Maemo Summit at?21:25
summatusmentisand will I be able to get someone to pay my way there?21:26
RST38bislcuk: only in uk21:26
RST38bisPriceless: A gaggle of Russian ravers at the July 5 Aquamarine Open Air Festival discovered this after tents erected to deflect heavy rains partially refracted lasers intended for skyward illumination into their eyes, resulting in nastiness: "Retinal burns, scarring is visible on them. Loss of vision in individual cases is as high as 80 percent, and regaining it is already impossible."21:26
mgedminotoh it might be already too late21:27
lcukRST38bis, horrible mismanagement21:27
lcukno, i think its possible possibly21:27
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lcukanyway, everyone stop posting, i wanna go downstairs21:27
mgedminpayback for you keeping me at work for an extra 1:30 hours21:28
mgedminnot really, I usually find something I need to finish before going home21:28
mgedminand leave work at 10 pm instead of 8 pm21:28
lcuk:) but it was important enough21:28
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summatusmentisI'm not a Very Intersting Person21:29
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RST38bislcuk: No. Priceless experiment.21:29
RST38bislcuk: lasers. ravers. concave deflecting surfaces.21:30
RST38bisnow we know what happens if you mix those.21:31
mgedmina bit harsh on the raves21:31
infobotmgedmin meant: a bit harsh on the ravers21:31
RST38bisravers are pretty useless lot, so I wouldnt be too sad21:32
* mgedmin is suddenly happy RST38bis is far from him21:33
mgedminI'm not a raver myself, I hasten to add21:33
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RST38bisi have no laser, dont be afraid21:34
JaffaRST38bis: back, but about to eat dinner21:34
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corq-ubuon my n810, after flashing up to diablo - I note my hardware home and "switcher" keys do not seem to do anything, is there a fix or is there something I can control in contro panel?21:40
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* johnx still needs more SD cards21:50
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johnxhi qgil :)21:51
qgilhi there21:51
qgilwho wants to take part in the Maemo Summit with travel and accommodation covered, also very probably registration to ?21:51
qgilyou guys are lazy21:52
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khertanHi !21:53
lcuksome of us aren't21:53
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lcukkhertan, blow all your other stuff and get to the summit :P:21:53
qgilto give you an idea21:53
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qgilan d please spread the message21:53
qgilif you are here
qgilor in a similar level of contribution (you judge)21:54
khertansomeone can help me with perl ? i m trying to build libmodule-build-perl21:54
RST38xqgil: we guys have jobs21:54
khertanand i get error : dXSARG 'undeclared'21:54
qgilor here
lcukquim, shush everyone up then lets all stay in the ritz :D21:54
khertanlol none of my project in the wiki21:55
qgilRST38x: sure, if you can't skip a friday then it is a problem (probably having to leave on Thursday earlier too)21:56
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qgilkhertan what is your project?21:56
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khertanPyGTKEditor, PyPackager21:56
qgilkhertan well, you said is a wiki, with an EDIT tab21:57
lcukkhertan is very highly recommended :)  he lets me code on the go with his pygtkeditor.  an inspiration21:57
khertanthere is also mCalendar21:57
khertanand mContact planned :)21:57
lardmanhey lcuk, how's packaging hell today?21:57
lcuki dunno, ive been hotel hunting21:57
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qgilor here
lardmanhi Quim21:58
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lcukkhertan - if for nothing else i would like to meet you to get you a beer21:58
khertanlardman: hell enought to push developper to create their own repository ;)21:58
lardmankhertan: not too loud, the General will bring his wrath to bear!21:58
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RST38xpyne = python pine?=)21:58
khertanpyne = a python email gui client21:59
khertannot pine21:59
lcuklardman, should be sorted with the package once i sort out the make install section.21:59
RST38xcreating own repos is whar is going to happen now21:59
qgilor here
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khertanRST38x: yes but i ve passed enought time to get dpkg-buildpackage on it22:00
khertans/it/internet tablet22:00
lcukive got that on mine22:00
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lcukbut i cant get the initial one which creates the /debian folder22:00
khertandh_make ?22:00
lcukdpkg-buildpackage <<22:00
lcuktoo many deps22:01
qgilor /
khertanhow do u build dep ?22:01
lcukor not available22:01
lcukit wasnt available sorry22:01
khertanin particular libmodule-build-perl ?22:01
RST38xkhertan: well, not everyone is willing to screw with this stuff for so long22:01
lcukit was in default debian listing22:01
Talus46_n810anyone can tell me where can i find the gcc package for n810?22:01
lcukkhertan, i cleared out everything from my machine and its on22:01
rm_youjohnx: best ramen i've had in my life22:01
lcukTalus46_n810, for a hint look at the repositories scratchbox uses22:01
johnxrm_you, O_o22:01
johnxrm_you, awesome, but kinda hard to believe22:02
lcukset the same repositories on your 810 and apt-get install gcc22:02
khertanlcuk: you are talking that you get it on your n800 or your pc ?22:02
qgilalright, I just wanted to make sure that it's not because you are shy22:02
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qgiland I just want to avoid people waking up in the last weeks, when it's too late22:02
Talus46_n810nice but i'm not near my laptop doesn't anyone know?22:02
lcuktalus, im not sure which specific repo its in22:03
lcuki can give you the list of the ones ive got22:03
lcukand i use gcc everyday22:03
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Talus46_n810a page where i can search for those repos?22:03
RST38xtalus: a moment22:03
RST38xtry packrat22:03
Talus46_n810thank you :)22:03
lcukqgil, are all the nokia guys lined up, or are you chasing them as hard?22:04
qgilI had reasons to chase the Nemein guys having the registration ready before July...22:05
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* lardman forgot to free()22:05
qgilthese days the offices are at 50%, considering that to get one Nokia guy registred you need also the approval of his manager22:05
qgilin other words, they will come even if you don't see them at22:06
qgilI don't bother as much about the Nokians since their teams pay for their expenses22:07
qgilas I'm not worried about getting 150 participants in the summit, as planned22:07
RST38xqgil: get ga to come22:07
qgilthe potentially sponsored guys are the only ones I worry about these days22:07
qgilRST38x ga was invited long ago22:08
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lcukqgil, does what i said in mail earlier matter, ie can we could all end up in the same place?22:08
khertani don't know yet if i ll be free at this time22:08
lcukga has done loads of stuff with the documentation22:08
RST38xi know. also know he declined22:08
qgillcuk: why do you need me to get that sorted out?22:08
lcuki dont particularly im just worried about booking somewhere and finding out ive booked too expensive22:09
lcukand my shoestring is even more stretched at present22:09
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qgillcuk: imagine me being CCed for every case like yours  :)22:09
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ion_cu_vacaI can ssh in my n800 as root, what is the password to ssh as user?22:10
* lardman hasn't done any booking, should he?22:10
qgiland then you want me to find out about the 3D acceleration stuff ;) and the rest of things I'm supposed to do22:10
lcuki know, and i didnt mean to burdon you.22:10
lcuk:D heh22:10
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* lcuk wont send any more mails about current trip ;) ill just wait for tomorrow, then book around it all22:11
lcukeveryone else stop sending quim mails.  hes sorting out pvr ;)22:11
rm_youqgil: heh, I would love to come, but I am in US and definitely don't qualify as a "rockstar" :P22:11
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lardmanah, I see22:11
RST38xqgil: forget about lcuk travel accomodations, find out about 3d accel stuff =)22:12
johnxrm_you, you have a popular app in extras :P22:12
khertanrm_you: what app is it ?22:12
rm_youadvanced-backlight :)22:13
qgilanother advice for those willing to come but unsure about sponsorship:22:13
lcukrm_you, lets see:   open source project with involvement of others.  active participation.   lively character.   strange sleeping patterns.  you will fit right in.  APPLY.22:13
qgilfill your maemo profile with the relevant information22:13
khertanthere is also a popular command line available in the device !22:13
rm_youlcuk: lol22:13
qgilexplain why would you like to be spnsored in your registration22:13
qgiland press enter22:13
khertansince the first day of the 770 :)=22:13
lcukseriously rm_you, if you have time see if you can come22:13
rm_youI would love to come, and I would make time :P we'll see22:13
lcukwhat do you gain by not trying?22:13
khertanhum ... i must go on ... my wife is calling me :)22:14
lcukcya khertan22:14
jottrm_you: and for future development of advanced-backlight we should meet in person :)22:14
qgilI'm not going to be after every hesitating guy like qole in ITt spending his time wondering in the forums instead of just registering and requesting sponsorship22:14
qgilyou're grown ups! (well, some of you still really tender)  :P22:14
rm_youhas the ITT thanks karma been added to maemo yet? :P22:14
qgilrm_you: - chase bergie for that22:15
rm_youheh, should get that done before I apply :P22:15
lcukrm_you, i have a karma of 7.  i also have a dugg down on my own account (by me).  karma isnt everything, just fluffin fill it in22:16
rm_youI think I have zero karma on maemo and like 120 thanks on ITT :P22:16
johnxis there a set number of sponsored slots? I don't care about spending Nokia's money but I don't want to take someone else's slot who's done more maemo-related work22:16
rm_youjohnx: yeah, that is how I feel22:16
rm_youespecially being in the US22:16
qgilrm_you: you can keep wondering about the sex of angels or you can go ahead and try22:16
rm_youit is a lot of slots i would take22:16
rm_youqgil: yeah, I will just sign up and let you guys decide if i'm worth it :)22:17
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qgiljohnx: the thing is that everybody seems to not "want to take someone else's slot who's done more maemo-related work"22:17
liriI wish someone could check the roadmap application on an n810 to see if it's compatible with my maps22:17
qgilit's not about slots - I have a limited budget22:17
rm_youqgil: we're all too nice for our own good :P22:17
* RST38x does not do any community projects other than packrat anyway22:17
johnxqgil, in that case I'm definitely not the right person to sign up then :)22:18
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RST38xand in that case the community really consists of himself an rm-you22:18
qgilwell, to tell you the truth I don't even know you here22:18
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qgilI can't retain all nicknames or email addresses in a list or...22:18
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qgilthis is why full maemo profile + well based registration is what is useful22:19
lcukhey quim, you need to get yourself a PIM on your nokia ;)22:19
rm_youyeah, we understand :P you have a lot to deal with22:19
qgilthe karma thing is just a detail22:19
qgillcuk: I like to remember only what impacts my brain - but this is just me22:19
RST38xrm-you: btw, shouldn't we try faking an iphone app store ui?22:19
lcukno quim, its everyone22:20
rm_youoh hey I do have a profile and kharma... how the @*#* did that happen... I certainly didn't do it :P22:20
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lcukyou just have a lot more happening22:20
johnxrm_you, it's your bugzilla account too :P22:20
qgilfor instance, i do remember the brilliant answer of johnx on the Ubuntu Mobile stuff22:20
lcukhey JamieBennett \o22:20
RST38xrm-you: would be cool even as a practical joke22:20
JamieBennetthey lcuk :D22:20
rm_youjohnx: ah i think it is coming from downloads on my product :P22:20
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johnxqgil, right, but getting me there would cost a small fortune :/22:20
rm_youyay johnx! :P22:20
qgiljohnx: the Maemo Summit happens only once a year and we are trying to do our best to get the brilliant people there22:21
qgilif you belong to that group or not, I don't know22:21
JamieBennettlcuk: Sat in a really depressing bar in Eindhoven at the moment, at least the beers are on expenses ;)22:21
qgilnote that part of "brilliant" means applying soon22:22
Jaffajohnx: if you don't apply you won't get; and we'll all potentially suffer22:22
qgilwe can't just wait till the week before to see what is the remaining budget22:22
johnxfine, fine, I'll apply :P22:22
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JaffaWith only 30-odd registrations and the majority being without sponsorship, I can imagine qgil's budget going unspent!22:23
rm_youyeah, I have an appointment in a little bit so i have to go, but I will definitely sign up today and see what happens :)22:23
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JamieBennettqgil: did you get my email about osim?22:23
lcukjaffa, no way - they are expensive beers in the ritz22:23
rm_youthough I still can't seem to log in to my wiki account22:23
qgilJamieBennett: sure, in my long mail queue nurtured during the GUADEC days22:23
lcukJamieBennett, im sat here with vimto and toothache22:23
qgilJamieBennett: forget email, wiki is the thing22:23
qgilJamieBennett: in  fact, forget me and find your mates there  :)22:24
rm_youlcuk: you are going right? :P I would love to badger you in person about OSS :P or rather congratulate you for embracing it, at this point :)22:24
lcuk:) yes im going22:24
lcukand i am glad ive opened the source to liqbase22:25
rm_yousweet, I will try my hardest22:25
lcukit hurt, but not much22:25
* lcuk has had a great year so far22:25
JamieBennettqgil: not sure I got your comment?22:26
penguinbaitwhat is the sponsership for?22:26
lcukmaemo summit participation22:26
Jaffapenguinbait: paid travel22:26
qgilpenguinbait: if you still don't know means that perhaps many of the guys I have in mind still don't either22:27
penguinbaitprobably, I had not heard about it22:27
qgilperhaps I need to start a "Nokia sucks" thread in ITt to get everybody there  ;)22:27
penguinbaityou know we are all off in our own little worlds :)22:27
RST38xjaffa: sorry, connection broke last time22:27
lcukqgil, if you have particular names, send a few of us a clased mail and we will see if we can find them for you22:28
Jaffapenguinbait: odd, what'd've reached you other than p.m.o, maemo-* and ITT?22:28
RST38xjaffa: where were we?22:28
JaffaRST38x: ditto :-)22:28
qgillcuk: see my URLs above, there are plenty of names there either listed or implicit22:28
rm_youjohnx: yeah, so what i meant was, best ramen i've had *IMO*, dunno if it is because it is different from japanese ramen and I like the style more or what.... also, we didn't exactly go to the most expensive fancy ramen places when i was there :P22:28
* Jaffa is about to throw this broken fscking keyboard controller out of the window22:28
lcukok :)22:28
lardmannew version of dsp-sbc, come and get it!:
qgilfor instance, penguinbait is mentioned at
* lcuk has no wireless headphones22:29
RST38xjaffa: i can't dcc you the mockup, so can only describe it in words (it is not complicated)22:29
qgilpenguinbait: look your calendar and if you can do it please register at - you are definitely covered22:29
RST38xlardman: any chance of all in one deb that will work with builtin player, canola, etc?22:30
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qgilgnuite aka John Kostigan would be cool as well22:30
penguinbaitI am looking22:30
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lardmanRST38x: I'm happy to do one if someone wants to work out how & test it22:30
johnxcanola is easy22:30
qwerty12_N800lardman, w00t, you've given me an excuse to dig out the bt headset again :) (gonna need it for ~4 hr journey to london > manchester :)). thanks.22:31
RST38xlardman: i can test starting next month22:31
johnxjust vi .atabake/config and change the fallback for audio to be mplayer22:31
lardmanqwerty12_N800: tell me if it goes flat in 10min ;)22:31
lcukoh crap, qwerty12 no22:31
lcukdont come to manchester, it will change you22:31
qwerty12_N800lcuk, :p, lol22:31
lardmanRST38x:  the real issue is that I replace bluez-utils with one with the same name, as I think the OS depends on that version exactly22:32
lardmannot sure how to handle the deps cleanly really22:32
lcukit was so depressing coming back from linuxtag.  lovely sunshine all the way, then descent into dreary greyness22:32
lardmanbut open to people's thoughts, etc.22:32
* lcuk has his own packaging problems22:32
Stskeepshm, my gf is moving to berlin in september.. wonder if i would pop by maemo summit for that sake22:32
* qwerty12_N800 just jooks the control file from tabletteer for dep problems22:33
jottqgil: would it be possible to apply for a sponsorship of the osim event only?22:33
RST38xlardman: original bluez does not work?22:33
lardmanRST38x: it needs changes to use the DSP as the backend22:33
qgiljott: nope, that's beyond the point22:33
jottok, no problem.22:33
lcukjott, apply for sponsorship for the whole thing:  you get to stay in a hotel overlooking your house22:34
jotthah :)22:34
rm_youGeneralAntilles: what should I put in my profile intro? :P22:34
qgilbtw lardman & co - about that ITt thread on ·D acceleration22:34
qgil3D I mean22:34
lardmanqgil: yes :)22:34
RST38xlardman: any hope to push these changes to nokia?22:34
lcuk"rm_you helping to brighten maemo users lives"22:34
saaibI have a n770 which I loaded with 2007 HE (ver 4.2008.7-1). Which Maemo version is this? 3.1, 3.2?22:34
megabyte405anybody want to help me fix abiword on maemo bugs?22:34
lardmanRST38x: I'll talk to the Bluez guys and see if they'll accept some sort of patch, yes22:35
megabyte405:D  I lack actual maemo programming experience, I just use and package22:35
qgilhave you ever thought of investing your time (or somebody else's time) contacting owners of drivers22:35
qgilexplaining to them how they business would improve with better linux support22:35
lardmanqgil: I've already done this and been turned away22:35
qgilthe many things you could do with that22:35
qgiland, well, trying to get any answer from them?22:35
RST38xlardman: ideally they should also take your encoder22:35
lardmanRST38x: yes, they would have to22:35
qgillardman, I'm curious: what happened?22:36
lardmanRST38x: otherwise the changes would do nothing22:36
jottatleast it is out of the hands of imagination technologies. they point to the system integrators..22:36
lardmanqgil: I got a pretty standard no, we don't deal with non-OEM customers, good bye22:36
RST38xqgil: driver owner is a corporation22:36
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lcukqgil, if we put something specific together explaining our case could you help with some contacts from your end?22:36
lardmanqgil: I'm happy to try again, perhaps we should discuss (community effort) at the conf in Berlin22:36
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qgilif instead of an individual is a community of open source developers the things is not exactly the same22:37
* lcuk agrees22:37
lardmanhey ssvb22:37
RST38xqgil: mere mortals do not talk to corporations, alas22:37
lardmanqgil: yes, agreed22:37
ssvbhi lardman22:37
lardmanssvb: you were right about malloc22:37
lcukthis is what the committy could do22:37
lardmanssvb: now running without pause at 133MHz :)22:37
lcukhi ssvb :)22:37
jottso, one question is, who holds the actual intellectual property of the linux drivers...22:37
qgilRST38x: all beings are mere mortals22:38
RST38xjott: powervr guys22:38
lcukImagination Technologies22:38
RST38xqgil: that is why you have to be a corporation to talk to corporation22:38
jottnot sure about this22:38
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RST38xqgil: basically, we need a contact in imagetek to talk to22:39
lcukqgil, what if we were to put together something concrete to speak to our hardware supplier.  is that not enough?22:39
qgilRST38x: corporations talk already, you can wait and see, you can complain in a forum or you can try more things22:39
RST38xnot a techie guy but a decision maker22:39
jottAt this point I will have to refer you to Nokia, as drivers at the end of the day are the exclusive concern of the OEM. It is possible we will see drivers for the N810 at some point, but it is not something I can comment on with any certainty in an official manner at this point.22:39
lcuksure, we have discussed with you - is there no movement from inside at your end?22:39
jottthat was the reply of imagination technologies22:40
lardmanjott: I got the same22:40
qgiljott: and I can write the same thing if you want, refering to the owners of the drivers22:40
jottqgil: :)22:40
lardmanSo are Ti the ones to talk to?22:40
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RST38xqgil: very nice22:41
lardmanI don't think we really know where we should be looking22:41
lcukmaybe it would be better to get a concrete proposal together and put it to ALL parties22:41
RST38xqgil: you have proven to jott my point about talking to corporations22:41
qgillcuk: +122:41
qgilRST38x: and jott is proving my point that an individual alone has not many chances22:42
lardmanbbiab even22:42
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lcukthis is something which will show as a whole would like to move together and are focused22:42
qgilcorporations are made of mere mortals with mere strategies and mere priorities, responding to mere events22:42
RST38xqgil: wait. let us forget 3d stuff for a moment22:42
lcuklets not :P22:43
RST38xwe all know it is fruitless22:43
RST38xjust for a moment lcuk22:43
RST38xqgil: there is something very specific you can do for all the people here22:44
qgilRST38x: and perhaps it is, but in any case I (personally) think it is more fruitful time spent than tryin g to reverse enginner something, or start yet another discussion with no conclusion in a forum22:44
RST38xit does not invo,ve imagetek or ti, just nokia22:44
qgilat least you have a public proposal, public examples, public voices in a piece of public HTML, and this lasts22:44
RST38xqgil: we have got a gentleman here who has a2dp working without eating 100% cpu or other crap22:45
sp3000ahh bollocks22:46
RST38xqgil: but in order for his stuff to be usable, there need to be a few patches at nokia level22:46
* sp3000 gets a stuck statusbar dropdown22:46
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qgilRST38x: where to look?22:47
Stskeepswb johnx|n80022:47
RST38xqgil: would you be willing to help him by passing code to nokia devs abd integrating it?22:47
RST38xqgil: msg lardman22:47
RST38xhe is the guy22:47
lcukRST38h, the same goes for 3d.  if we use together to build a proper set of proposals for all our hardware issues it can be pushed to the relivent parties to work together to cure22:47
johnx|n800Stskeeps, playing with xchat on n800/debian :)22:48
Stskeepsjohnx|n800: yay22:48
qgilwait, step by step22:48
RST38xwell, 3d is more remote but a2dp is down to earth and real - just need to integrate it22:48
rm_youjohnx|n800: nice I will really need to set up a partition for that when i wake up. :)22:48
rm_youack, late for appointment, BBL22:49
johnx|n800later rm_you22:49
qgilI'm at home and I can't find exact names now but22:49
RST38xdoes not concern any business stuff, technical only22:49
GeneralAntillesA good first step would be opening a bug on bugzilla with the relevant patches..22:49
Stskeepsi'd sell my soul for proper a2dp22:49
qgilPatrick Flykt, Klaus Anderson, Kalle Valo are guys in maemo-developers22:49
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JamieBennettStskeeps: I've seen Reaper, maybe not a good idea ;)22:50
RST38xqgil: see? people are offering souls22:50
RST38xno doubt kidney offers will follow22:50
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qgilthen another thing22:50
qgilwell no22:51
johnxI'll give you one of RST38x's kidneys :)22:51
JamieBennettme too ;)22:51
qgilmaemo-developers + should be enough22:51
lcukill give you the other one if we can get all this working22:51
RST38xbastard. =)22:51
* lcuk would have to buy extra hardware just to not listen to music wirelessly.22:51
johnxjust a quick swim and a short walk :)22:51
qgilthe guys are there and I can help pushing this if it's worth22:51
qgilone thing good to understand also22:52
lcukqgil, yes it is.  lardman has done a lot of great work uncovering the mysteries of the dsp22:52
JamieBennettwe all have an agenda with the device, the more people with the same agenda the better22:52
qgillardman is a known person in our team22:52
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khertanre ...22:52
JamieBennett(me I want opengl es support but thats another story)22:52
lcukno its not jamie, we have a plan now :)22:53
khertan(me want dpkg-dev and make_dh in extras-devel repository but an other story too)22:53
lcukwell,a seedling of one anyway22:53
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JamieBennettWe could make a compendium of stories with this one :)22:53
lcukhello florian22:53
khertanthey have a plan ...22:53
RST38xOk, now a bit closer to 3d stuff...22:53
khertanthis remember me something ... :)22:53
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* lardman feels his ears burning22:54
RST38xAgain, let us ignore MBX for now22:54
lcukJamieBennett, i think the committee just gained a purpose :)22:54
* khertan drop some oil on lardman ears ...22:54
* qwerty12_N800 pours water over lardman's ears 22:54
Stskeepslardman is the devil and has come to get our souls and kidneys?22:54
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JamieBennettI'm just hoping there's mention of OpenGL (ES) at the summit for new hardware and I'm sold for life!22:54
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lardmanoil+water=explosion, did you not learn that at uni induction?22:55
* Jaffa looks forward to the Fremantle UI stuff, and general chattage22:55
RST38xqgil: from omap docs it looks like omap2 has a second arm cpu in the iva22:55
JamieBennettlcuk: I can see a change in the community lately, great difference from say a year ago, great momentum now22:55
lcukoil+water+girls is another story though22:55
lardmanJaffa: likewise, will be good to do some more chatting22:55
lardmanlcuk: lol22:55
qwerty12_N800lardman, ask me again, when i do go to uni :p22:55
JaffaRST38x: about a bit now, if you've got sommmmmmme ideas22:55
Jaffa(damned keyboard)22:55
RST38xqgil: is it going22:55
lardmanqwerty12_N800: well, an early lesson for you, no water on chip pan fires, unless you hide round the corner!22:56
* lcuk is smiling22:56
RST38xqgil: to be possible to get some docs on accessing it?22:56
qgilomap2 - who owns that?22:56
qwerty12_N800lardman, ta, now i shall be sure to do that :p22:56
RST38xjaffa: ok, consider a vertical window appx 400x60022:57
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RST38xqgil: ti22:57
lcukRST38h, we can push for access to ALL the hardware.  no stone unturned?22:57
lcukbut we have to be united22:57
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lardmanhi Dave22:57
JaffaRST38x: yup22:57
lcukhi dave \o22:58
RST38xlcuk: we cant - different ip holders22:58
RST38xlets start small22:58
lcukwe can.  we can put the case for each piece of hardware required and direct the relivent parties to each22:58
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RST38xjaffa: from top to bottom:22:59
lcuksome have hopes for a2dp, others for 3d, some for IVA, some are even wanting the charging circuit22:59
qgilone question for yourselves: do you think Nokia is interested in closed 3rd party drivers and confidential documentation or open 3rd party drivers and public documentation22:59
lardmanlcuk: it would still be useful to get, from Nokia, some on-the-record reasoning behind why they've not already used said hw22:59
lardmanqgil: the latter for non-Nokia developed hw at least22:59
lcukabsolutely lardman, and we can push for that once we have a coherant message22:59
RST38xjaffa: 1. 2 tabs, Settings an Tasks22:59
RST38xqgil: we do not know23:00
booleanquestion: if we dont use any multimedia on the device, is it necessary to statr multimediad?23:00
RST38xqgil: it's business stuff23:00
Stskeepsjohnx: <- xfce4 HAL-using battery applet (no debian package though, needs to be compiled in debian :P)23:00
Stskeepsjohnx: tested it the other day, seemed to work23:00
RST38xjaffa: 2. appx 400x240 preview image23:00
qgilbusiness stuff is not more difficult to decode than technical stuff23:01
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JamieBennettI'd be happy if Nokia said explicitly that 'this is open because we can' and 'this is closed because XXX (insert company name) don't want to make it open at this time'. That way it mitigates Nokia and the community is happy23:01
JaffaRST38x: outside the tab panel?23:01
RST38xjaffa: 3. two drop downs, Bandwidth and Frame Size, both default to Auto23:01
GeneralAntillesJamieBennett, community happy? Pfft. :P23:01
johnxStskeeps, I'll look at that now. I've been playing with wmaker but sadly it's just not a good fit for a touch screen :/23:01
RST38xjaffa: this is all inside settings tab23:02
JamieBennettor venting its anger in other directions23:02
qgilJamieBennett: is this how you treat your partners?23:02
lardmanIt would be interesting for Igor (for example) to comment on-the-record about the decisions23:02
JamieBennettqgil: I'd word it differently ofcourse ;)23:02
* lcuk still feels silly about ranting to igor :(23:02
JamieBennett(thats for marketing :D)23:02
Stskeepsjohnx: i tried afterstep earlier, it was okay for touchscreen but too damn slow - but that might have been because of fb_update_mode23:02
lardmanlcuk: I wondered if you'd got out the wrong side of bed that morning23:02
* GeneralAntilles pokes lcuk in the ribs. :P23:03
johnxStskeeps, was even your cursor movement slow? if so it was fb_update23:03
lcuki posted that i had23:03
lcukyer gen i know23:03
Stskeepsjohnx: think so23:03
lcuki think thats the first time ive ever been riled by a posting23:03
lcukand i chose the one person who i shouldnt have :(23:03
JamieBennettqgil: how about a simple package list and an entry saying 'open' or 'closed' and at the top of the (wiki?) page saying that Nokia is actively pursuing opening as much of the code as _Nokia_ CAN?23:03
RST38xjaffa: 4. 3 radio buttons, whole panel width: Keep Frame Size , Crop Frames, Stretch Frames23:03
GeneralAntilleslcuk, don't worry. I've done it, too. :) I freaked out all over Eero about the soft poweroff stuff in Bugzilla. ;)23:03
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RST38xjaffa: with appropriate warnings about quality23:04
lardmangot to go, will check back from time to time23:04
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lcukcya later simon23:04
RST38xjaffa: SECOND PANEL:23:04
* lcuk will laugh if jaffa disconnected at the start23:05
RST38xjaffa: huge list of videos bring encoded, with file names, sizes, durations, progress bars23:05
* Jaffa has the log23:05
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lcukbest go see a doctor23:06
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RST38xjaffa: odd lines are greenish, even lines are whiteish23:06
qgilgot to go as well23:06
qgilone conclusion I'm  getting these days23:06
lcukqgil, thank you very much for dropping by.  you have given us something to discuss :)23:06
RST38xjaffa: 3 buttons at the bottom: add, delete, start23:06
qgilis that yes, the Maemo community is departing to higher levels of collaboration23:06
qgilstill I think we (including the nokians and myself)23:06
RST38xjaffa: start becomes stop when sstarted23:07
qgilare spending too much time discussing and reading how others discuss23:07
qgiland going around the same things23:07
RST38xJaffa: this is it. nothing more.23:07
qgilinstead of investing that precious time building more interesting, useful and complex stuff23:07
RST38xqgil <= damn right23:07
qgillike lardman does23:07
khertanqgil: agree with u :)23:07
RST38xthe trick is to pick small practical goals and push toward them23:08
lcukqgil, we are only trying to make the most out of what we have23:08
qgilor like... what was the name of that guy that reverse engineered the image creation tool?23:08
lcukimage creation tool?23:08
qgilerm.. my brain is a bit dead at this time of the "day"23:08
qwerty12_N800pancake? (with 0xffff's imgtool)23:09
qgilthat one23:09
RST38xstill, it would be nice if nokia made it easier for us23:09
timelyJamieBennett: i think typically you don't try to upset your partners23:09
timelyif you're doing business w/ someone, be it a supplier or customer23:09
timelyyou don't publicly shame them23:09
timelyit doesn't make you look good, and it certainly doesn't help your ability to do business23:09
RST38xjaffa: logged it?23:09
* timely sees that qgil already wrote that23:09
qgilRST38x: "make it easier" is not that easy when you are doing so many things23:09
qgiland you are getting so many requests23:10
lcuktimely it needs reinforcing23:10
qgilless noise helps getting better the signal23:10
lcukor a2dp drivers ;)23:10
qgiland there are many signals in the Maemo community, very good23:10
JamieBennetttimely: I know, I see it daily with my company but it would be nice to do it in such a subtle way that its not shaming, its a pushing in the right direction?23:10
qgilJamieBennett: if you would know the evangelist work Nokia does with partners23:11
timelyi'm fairly confident that the people who deal w/ them push as hard as they can as many ways as they can23:11
JamieBennettqgil: I'm sure you do which is why I have a lot of admiration for you guys23:11
timelyw/o hurting their ability to do business23:11
RST38xqgil: just keeping it simple and stupid goes long way ;)23:11
timelyJamieBennett: look at sun and others23:11
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timelyyou do what you can, and when you can afford to change, you do23:11
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JamieBennetttimely: lets not talk sun23:11
timelyfor java, sun eventually had to rewrite the last bits to get it open23:12
timelybut nokia doesn't make core hardware components23:12
qgilJamieBennett and RST38x may I ask where do you work - you know where I work23:12
timelyand it doesn't make sense for nokia to go into that business23:12
RST38xqgil: Intel Inc23:12
timelynow, if someone were to make an open hardware component that was as inexpensive23:12
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timelyor perhaps only slightly more so, but whose software maintenance costs balanced it out23:13
qgilRST38x: cool, so you know23:13
timelyi'd imagine nokia would switch23:13
JamieBennettqgil: A large gaming and entertainment company (no pc gaming) company23:13
RST38xqgil: I have to admit Intel seems to be more successful at supporting developers23:13
lcukqgil, they make their own hardware though.  they are as open at most things as Ti are.  or is it even more i dunno?23:14
lcuksorry not qgil23:14
qgilone problem with ITt and the like is that for one inspired johnx you have to deal with a lot of noise, and eventually even answer to it23:14
RST38xqgil: but then, we make our own hardware from the ground up:]23:14
qgilRST38x: intel has learned to play with Linux support - they have seen some business strategy in there and I'm sure their competitors are aware of that23:15
JamieBennettqguil: you have the unenviable position as open source tablet advocate to a very wide skilled community, you will never have an easy time :D23:15
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johnxqgil, just so you know, before I wrote that ubuntu mobile post I was about to just tell everyone to shut the *&$% up about ubuntu mobile or get it running themselves :)23:15
JamieBennettsome can't figure out how to turn the device on ;)23:15
sp3000christoph würstle?23:16
RST38xqgil: Intel has got completely different business model from nokia23:16
qgilRST38x: I was talking about Intel competitors and this doesn't include Nokia according to my calculations23:16
RST38xqgil: so it is not comparable. besides, linux is just a relativerly small part of intel dev community23:16
RST38xqgil: not at the moment23:17
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JaffaRST38x: ta helpful23:17
RST38xqgil: ti - maybe23:17
qgilRST38x: well, look moblin and look what other chipset vendors have done in terms of open source & mobile...23:17
RST38xqgil: moblin - pc based - umpc - not competition to nokias arm-baswd stuff23:18
JamieBennettmoblin raises a lot of eyebrows in my company, visually well done, haven't looked at the code though23:18
wndrm_you, somehow I ended up checking x-chat's configuration about nick autocompletion. you may want to add "completion_amount = 1" to your $HOME/.xchat2/xchat.conf .23:18
RST38xqgil: but it helps selling atom cpus23:18
* GeneralAntilles knows a thing or two about responding to the noise. <_<23:18
JamieBennettRST38x: I hope arm and intel are coming closer in the low end market23:19
JamieBennettin terms of performance23:19
RST38xjamie: not really23:19
RST38xplease note that i am not speaking for intel here23:20
GeneralAntillesx86 has a long way to go to match ARM efficiency wise.23:20
qgilI left the office many hours ago23:20
RST38xjust my personal opinion based on public data23:20
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qgilbut well, you were not talking about hardware efficiency but about Linux developers, am I right?23:21
RST38xbut anyway, current atom cpus are perfect for umpcs and settop boxes and dvd players23:21
JamieBennettwhat was the phase something about the race to the bottom. I think people will realise that this device that runs at such a low speed actually does everything they want, look at the eeepc as an example23:21
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RST38xfor really mobile stuff atom is not yet efficient enough and requires too many extra components23:22
RST38xjamie: this can flip in a variety of ways for the industry23:23
qgilalright, time for me to go - instead of a fruitful blog post about GUADEC I got this irc conversation...23:23
qgiland thank you for thet  :)23:23
JamieBennettRST38x: Agreed23:23
JamieBennettquil: every community needs direction, its nice to see you pop in and provide that for use, thanks23:23
johnx'night qgil. good to hear from you :)23:23
lcukqgil :) thanks again23:23
JamieBennettlol qgil23:23
lbtanyone here done anything with gettext and C++ ?23:24
* Stskeeps is pretty impressed with n8x0 now that he can see the performance/battery usage from a pure-debian perspective with power saving tricks23:24
RST38xi could go over possible outcomes but i have no real kbd here23:24
JamieBennettRST38x: are you at the Summit?23:24
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RST38xqgil: bye, please do not forget about a2dp23:24
RST38xjamie: not really23:24
lcukhe wont be able to if we get the whole of behind our goal23:24
johnxStskeeps, I was too. That's why I went back to OS2008 for a while after beta323:25
JamieBennettRST38x Would of been nice to sit down and hear your thoughts23:25
RST38xi do not think they are really that important - a lot of this stuff is obvious23:25
JamieBennettRST38x: Working in another country to my company I always find that face to face communication cannot be rivalled. It's where the real work gets done :)23:27
JaffaRST38x: two quick mockups, taking into account tablet-encode's encoding engine :
* Jaffa triiiiiiiies a reboot.23:28
ryoohkiis diablo only for developers?  i'm having a har time adding some of my favorite packages, like japanese language support and vpn software23:29
timelyryoohki: no23:29
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timelyryoohki: but it's summer23:29
lcuk_awayback later23:29
timelyand people take vacations23:30
timelyand you're not going to find some packages in diablo-extras until people get around to repackaging23:30
timelyyou can try adding chinook-extras and pulling the packages from there23:30
Stskeepsjohnx: would be interesting to see if it would be possible to fillin a flash plugin package in some way, or look into standalone flash player using that trick23:30
ryoohkiok, so diablo is ok for end users.  good!  you think by august many of the popular packages will be compiled for diablo and working fine23:30
RST38xjamie: true but talk alone is cheap and it is no real work23:30
johnxStskeeps, I guess so. Personally I put flashblock on every computer I touch...23:31
ryoohkiaren't diablo and chinook different enough to cause problems?23:31
Stskeepsjohnx: agreed, but could be interesting for UIs23:31
GeneralAntillesryoohki, not really.23:31
johnxStskeeps, I see where you're going with this...23:32
GeneralAntillesMostly it's the changes in the Extras process that are tripping packagers up.23:32
timelyryoohki: they really really shouldn't be23:32
ryoohkithe anthy package won't work right on diablo after doing as you and others have said, to use chinook23:32
timelyGeneralAntilles: eh?23:32
GeneralAntillesThe end result will be much better quality packaging, but we have a short but bumpy road to cover before we get there.23:32
GeneralAntillestimely, autobuilder, the new promotion interface, etc.23:32
GeneralAntillesLots of packages were badly put together before23:33
ryoohkithe keyboard won't pop up under certain circustances, like when trying to enter my gmail username and password23:33
RST38xjaffa: this will kill my cell bill23:33
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Stskeepsjohnx: no, not ubuntu mobile :P23:33
RST38xjaffa: anyways, looks ok but replace preset with two drop downs23:33
johnxStskeeps, right, but other things that are closer to apps than websites23:34
RST38xjaffa: more flexible this way and not much more complicsted as long as both have auto or best option23:34
Stskeepswell it's mostly from my professional perspective since we'd prolly end up deploying debian tablets to patients with a ui on top23:34
Stskeeps(for testing pervasive healthcare solutions)23:35
JamieBennettStskeeps: The poor people in hospital?23:35
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StskeepsJamieBennett: yes - best way to make people use debian is when they're at their weakest23:35
johnxStskeeps, and flash would make a nice rapid-prototyping networked UI23:35
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JamieBennettStskeeps: Thats evil! At least give them Ubuntu :D23:36
johnxstab stab stab23:36
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StskeepsJamieBennett: i've had ubuntu 7.04 booting sanely on my tablet but the lack of packages made it boring23:37
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JamieBennettPop quiz: Maybe the wrong channel but how many program open source in their own time?23:41
johnxprogram is a little strong :) I hack23:41
JamieBennettjohnx: lol. Given a problem in a field you know could you provide a solution?23:42
StskeepsJamieBennett: when i'm at work i do properitary and when i'm at home i do open source23:42
johnxJamieBennett, given an existing half solution I often make it an 80% solution :)23:43
melmothJamieBennett: it depends if i have an easy enough itch to scracth.23:44
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melmothotherwise, i cannot be bothered (aint laziness a programmer vertu ?)23:44
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JamieBennettI have a newly formed company that I want to turn into a not-for-profit company where every engineer is paid an agreed salary and once the contracts pay for that engineer the rest of the time the developer works for open source ('free'). Idealistic?23:44
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derfDepending on what you're doing, there's no reason the products of the contracts can't be open source also.23:46
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JamieBennettThe idea I have is that for instance a 2 month contract that pays a good tender could pay for a developers salary (say 50k) and from then on for 10 months he/she develops open source for the other 10 months (with structure and accountability of course)23:47
JamieBennettpipe dream?23:47
StskeepsJamieBennett: well it all depends on how much time would be leftover from the contracts and all the stuff like company house etc23:47
Stskeepsit's all numbers23:48
derfWell, two problems: 1) you have a lot more expenses than just developer salary. and 2) "structure and accountability" takes all the fun out of it.23:48
derfBut expecting anywhere near 6:1 markup seems a little unrealistic to me.23:49
JamieBennettGSOC like (Google summer of code) for the free time. As for time left over it would be like a once costs are made (no profits) then your salary is secure for the rest of the year so you do 'good stuff' :)23:49
derfI work for a defense contractor, and our net profit margin is much closer to the 5-10% range. Not 500%.23:49
derfJamieBennett: A good percentage of GSoC students seem to do the bare minimum up until they've secured the midterm payment, and then never show up again.23:50
JamieBennettderf: :( As for profit margins how many would take a pay cut from their current job to work from home and work on 'cool stuff' (tablets all day?)23:51
JamieBennettI would!23:52
derfWe already underpay everyone already.23:52
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derfWell, at least all the engineers.23:52
glassnot many see that they can afford to work just few months of the year23:52
derfI have no idea what management makes.23:52
glassquite many would just work for few months and keep the rest of the year as vacation if they were in such a business that they could afford23:53
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JamieBennettglass: its more a labour of love, the company covers your salary and in turn allows your to work on your project of choice (but obviously monitors it)23:53
derfglass: Maybe if they continued to live like they were still in college.23:53
derfPeople seem to like going out and buying big, expensive houses and fancy cars.23:54
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glassJamieBennett: well then someone could afford to keep the company rolling just few months of the year23:54
glassJamieBennett: point being here that it's not that easy to score such payments that you could afford to do what you want for most of the year23:54
derfI had a friend going through medical school, and she was talking with one of the doctors supervising her residency when he made the comment, "You won't understand this now, but after a while, $400k/year just isn't very much money."23:55
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derfJamieBennett: You would definitely need to have the right people involved.23:56
derfThe people who would still do the same things even if they weren't being paid.23:56
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JamieBennettglass: but if the costs were 100k per year and you meet then then what do you do with profits in a not for profit? I have an umbrella company that I'm hoping to house individual developers under, nothing formal apart from me vetting developers on experience, but in a form that encourages bounties, encourages making costs for the company but nothing more, the rest is contributed back.23:56
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jga23anybody know where to get subversion for diablo?23:57
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johnxjga23, I would assume23:57
glassJamieBennett: your sw company would have to be one superduperfuckin healthy sw company to be able to stay float and do what you're thinking, thats what i'm saying23:57
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