IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2008-07-07

diemani forgot rhapsody has an applet00:00
Jaffacfdisk is much better than sfdisk IMHO00:04
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diemansfdisk is a bit more robust, better for scripting00:07
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diemanand doesn't have a ncurses dependency00:07
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frewsxcvcan you use a headset or keyboard with the nokia 770?00:22
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bexyeah i was wondering if anyone can recommend a bluetooth headset00:30
bexwell i have an n80000:31
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diemanbenh: im using a cardo s80000:40
diemanbenh: it works well enough00:40
diemanbenh: and is cheap00:40
diemanand can pair up to something like 8 devices00:40
benhdieman: thx00:40
diemanits also stupidly small00:41
diemanfor being cheap00:41
diemanie: star trek communicator small00:41
yigalI was wondering, can one put zsh on maemo?00:41
benhdieman: heh, ok, bonus point :-)00:41
diemani need to get one of those scala riders for my scooter helmet tho00:42
diemanthey make an add-on to hook up a 2-way radio too00:42
diemanso i could get spoken information from the n800 routing, cell phone calls,a nd use the 2-way radio :)00:43
frewsxcvso bluetooth keyboards for os2006?00:46
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yigalbash is fine, just I've grown acustomed to using zsh00:48
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lardmancould someone stick /lib/dsp/dsp_dld_avs.conf up somewhere so I could grab it please?00:50
lardmanhaving just overwritten mine by accident00:50
gomiamlardman, give me a few minutes00:51
lardmangomiam: thanks, for Diablo if possible00:51
gomiamthat's what I have installed right now :-D00:51
lardmancool :)00:51
gomiamthat way you should be able to wget it directly into the tablet00:53
lardmanjust done that, many thanks :)00:54
jottpastebin is also wgettable though the filename is broken :)00:54
gomiamjott: oh, I didn't know. That IP is my work server, so I always use it XD00:55
jottvalac is so slow :(00:55
* jott wonders if it would be easy to integrate valac in sbox so it runs on the host00:56
gomiamlardman, if you could be so kind to recompile maemo stars for Diablo, I would certainly be grateful (I can't right now)00:56
gomiam(lardman or anybody else, that is)00:56
jottreal    0m14.993s    <-    for the hildon "hello world"00:57
gomiamI went a-telescoping last night with some friends and I found it doesn't install on Diablo. XD00:57
lardmangomiam: bed time for me asap, but I can certainly have a go later in the week00:57
GAN800er, recompile? it doesn't work?00:57
gomiamlardman, no pressure :-)00:58
gomiamGAN800: I tried to install it and it complained about missing libraries.00:58
GAN800'doesn't install'?00:58
GAN800Find the libraries?00:58
gomiammight it be that I need to add a chinook repository?00:58
GAN800What libraries?00:58
gomiamGAN800: just a couple of minutes and i'll tell you :-)00:59
gomiamit requires libglade from "mistral"01:00
lcukis lardman the maintainer of an astronomy application?01:01
gomiamlcuk: I don't think so. I just tried to cajole him into recompiling it XD01:01
lcukor rather, simon are you01:01
lcukahhh gomiam01:02
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gomiamby the way, is there a way to make scratchbox work on Cygwin?01:03
lcukdoubt it, bes tusing vmware01:04
* lcuk has forgotten how to type01:04
gomiamoh, ok. I'm working on finally making Debian my base OS, anyway XD01:07
lcukim still in windows01:07
Dekaritaeknives do not make good styluses01:11
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texelHrm. Is there any way to get qem 0.9.1 working in scratchbox?01:14
infobottexel meant: Hrm. Is there any way to get qemu 0.9.1 working in scratchbox?01:14
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lardmanAnyone fancy some a2dp on the DSP?01:23
lardman let me know how you get on01:23
lardmannight all01:25
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mouser-I'm looking for a durable case for the N810 to protect it when it's in my pocket and/or on my belt.  Are any of the boxwave cases any good?02:00
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CrashandDieGeneralAntilles, it's July 7th here in the civilized part of the world :P02:14
GeneralAntillesWasn't when I set the topic this morning. ;)02:16
CrashandDieThat's why I endorse the role of the friendly reminder02:16
GeneralAntillesYou can bug dneary when he wakes up. ;)02:16
CrashandDiemore annoying than a windows popup-balloon, more human than Windows'll ever be02:16
CrashandDie* Topic for #maemo set by GeneralAntilles at Sun Jul 06 13:46:55 200802:17
CrashandDiehumour me02:17
CrashandDieGeneralAntilles, I guess I need a bugzilla account in order to post a bug, right ?02:18
GeneralAntilles /topic Wiki page of the day for July 7th:
CrashandDieThat would have been funny if you missed the space bar02:18
CrashandDieAh well, fuck it02:20
CrashandDieI'll just post again, couldn't remember what I wrote there for the life of me, but what the hell, I know I didn't make the sponsorship, so won't matter a lot now, will it :)02:20
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texelI wonder, would anybody be interested in seeing an xconq port to Maemo?02:22
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texelemacs-cvs builds so far with qemu-arm-cvs.02:30
texelAnd it's already doing lisp-dumping.02:30
texelThis might just work!02:30
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* texel crosses her fingers and finishes watching Impact: Earth02:31
DekaritaeWidescreen is 16:10 or 16:9 or 2.35:1?02:35
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texel16:9, IIRC.02:35
CrashandDieDekaritae, TV widescreen is 16:9, computer widescreen is 16:1002:36
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DekaritaeOnly one can be the standard02:36
GeneralAntillesDekaritae, "widescreen is a lot of things"02:36
texelTrue enough.02:36
GeneralAntilleser, move the closing quote up a few words.02:36
GeneralAntillesPretty much anything that's wider than 4:3 is "widescreen"02:36
texelEven the HD channels can't determine what proper widescreen is -- one science channel gets it at 16:9, while others get it as 16:10.02:37
GeneralAntillesHD is 16:902:37
GeneralAntillesThe tablets are 15:902:37
GeneralAntillesComputers are 16:1002:38
texelBut the question is: why do some of the HD channels end up broadcasting data that is off screen?02:38
GeneralAntilles2.35:1 is the most common film "widescreen"02:38
GeneralAntillesBut there is no "widescreen" standard.02:39
CrashandDieyou also won't find any cheap/nice 2.35:1 screens02:39
CrashandDieyour house probably isn't big enough for it to be worth it02:39
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texelMan! THis compile is /really/ progressing!02:46
texelWe may yet have a useable deb for emacs soon.02:46
mouser-I assume there are at least a few  n810 users here.  What does everyone use for cases?02:46
texelmouser-: I use the supplied one, but the aluminum one looks /nice/.02:47
texelErr, that aluminum one by boxwave.02:47
texelMy only complaint is that you can't slide it open with the case on.02:47
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texelWhich is actually my main complaint with all of the cases for the N810.02:48
texelWhich is exactly why I haven't bought one yet. =op02:49
mouser-This one, texel?
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texelmouser-: that's the aluminum one I was talking about. =o)02:50
texelIt seems to have a hard-pin hinge at the top, which would prevent opening of the N810 while the case is closed.02:50
texelI guess what I'02:51
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texelm looking for is more along the lines of those MacBook covers that just fit on with pressure and look a bit like a skin.02:51
mouser-texel: I've been trying to find out the use of the plexiglass window if you can't use the touchscreen when it's on.02:52
texelmouser-: I'd love to find one like this:
texelBut for the N810.02:53
texelmouser-: does it have a plexiglass window?02:53
texelIt didn't look like that was on it by default.02:53
mouser-texel: On the boxwave site, it says that it has a clear plexiglass window that protects and allows the screen to be read, but I don't know how it works.  Ideally, I'd like a waterproof/crush-resistant case that would allow me to still keep it in my pocket, but I don't know how realistic that is.02:56
lcukribbed condoms?02:57
mouser-Barring that, just something like that which would fit on my belt.  lcuk, those would be rather difficult to get off, though they would get some looks.02:58
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lcukive got a pouch from my old pda, its toughened leather bound with a belt clip thing. i just keep it in my pocket wedged open and slide 810 in and out of it02:59
lcukunhooked the belt clip bit02:59
lcukits like this
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lcukdid you fall or were you pushed?03:02
mouser-lcuk, that looks slightly like the case that came with my ipod only with a top.03:02
lcukit works really well for me - the open flap velco makes it grip to my pocket lining and i can slip the device in and out with ease03:03
* lcuk tries to keep a straight face03:03
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fnordianslippersis that with the condoms?03:05
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crashanddielcuk, was that for me ? "did you fall or were you pushed?" ?03:12
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lcukcrashanddie, yes03:26
crashanddiein that case03:27
crashanddietop gear caused me to fall03:27
texel"Failed to open /var/lib/dbus/machine-id"03:33
texelFrom D-Bus.03:33
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texelThat totally sucks.03:34
texelI have to restart the build. =o(03:34
* lcuk is a million miles away03:34
texelIt's interesting to see emacs with zeroconf support03:35
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frewsxcvare there any advantages to os2007 HE to os2006?04:05
crashanddieeh ?04:20
frewsxcvthis should charge a nokia 770 also right?
texelHrm. Can the built-in fonts in Maemo display katakana characters?04:26
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lcddtexel: no04:28
texelSo then if I package kanatest, then I have to package up a bunch of fonts to go with it.04:29
texelThat sucks.04:31
lcddi wonder if it's okay to depend on other packages in extras04:31
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texelThat's a good question.04:31
texelBecause kanatest would have to to install properly.04:32
texel But, that being said...04:32
texel...I've seen some packages depend on others in extras.04:32
lcddi seem to have installed ttf-kochi-gothic from maemocjk04:36
lcddthe font renders beautifully on the device, btw.04:36
texelYeah, but that kind bothers me, anyway -- I wouldn't want to make a dependency on maemocjk for users to have to fight to setup.04:38
* texel herself has had enough of fighting with elusive repos to get things to work right04:38
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lcddi don't think anything that comes with a "be ready to reflash" warning will end up in extras anytime soon04:49
lcddbut at least their font packages should go04:49
bexmy dad called my n800 "your little etch a sketch thing"04:51
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texelHoly crap!05:14
texelemacs COMPILED!05:14
texelI hate myself.05:15
texelThat was in the DIABLO_X86 target. =o(05:15
texel"uncaught target signal 4 (Illegal instruction) - exiting"05:23
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jackgI have seen the article about how to stream video from N800 to linux_box,but now i want to realize the function that stream video from pc to N800 using gstreamer, and anybody can give me some advice ?thank you05:36
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jackghi guys~If I could get your help, this is my greatest honour06:08
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mouser-jackg: about gstreamer?06:09
mouser-jackg: Sorry, I don't know much about that.  Have you tried the internettablettalk forums yet?06:09
jackgi do not know how to stream video from pc to n800(maemo)~06:10
jackgthank you all the same~06:11
mouser-jackg: from a linux box to the n800 or from windows to n800?06:12
jackgI wonder whether i can use gst-launch from send side  to the n800 ? But the hantro4200enc is the special plugins from arm~06:16
jackgIf realizing a linux box to the n800, how to realize it ?06:16
PsykosisIs there a pre-existing installation for libgnet>=2.0 for OS2008?06:23
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frewsxcvcould this be done on os2006?
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johnxthat's a definite "maybe"07:42
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frewsxcvmaybe install OS2008 HE on my nokia 770? that would be a world of buginess07:43
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johnxwell, the actual debian stuff will run fine07:44
johnxwhat you need to find is how much OS2008 stuff it depends on07:45
johnxit might not be much (any?)07:45
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bexis there any way to make free calls to landlines and mobile phones?07:55
johnxI've heard of grand central07:56
johnxalso, there may be other local services depending on your area07:56
bexyeah grand central is not giving out invitations07:57
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bexor i heard it takes like 3 months07:58
johnxI just ended up buying some skype-out minutes07:58
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johnxif I was anywhere close I might be tempted08:41
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herwoodgood morning09:45
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prez00wow, this diablo release finally makes my n800 fun to use..09:50
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prez00everything is faster09:51
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prez00doesn't seem to get bogged down all the ttime09:51
prez00quick q i cannot figure out, how to make moe fit on my rss feed applet...09:52
tank-mansorry i dont know09:53
prez00how can i make font smaller, i only get 4 items.. but have seen screenshots where more stuff seems to fit09:53
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johnxyou might be able to use a theme with a smaller font09:54
prez00hmm. .. will try..09:55
macoutei kinda fear .debs that will repartition something on my device :S09:56
johnxthen don't use them09:58
tank-manthen read the source09:58
macouteespecially when i cant find the source code for them?09:58
johnxunpack the deb...09:58
johnxread the script, do the same thing manually09:59
macoutei'll do, that is for sure :)09:59
macoutebut for the users that do not understand what they are doing, those .debs are bad09:59
summatusmentiswhat .debs are we talking about09:59
macouteif not supervised by the community at least09:59
johnxwhy? as long as they come with a proper warning and instructions10:00
prez00does not seem to change font size...regardless of theme10:00
macoutesummatusmentis: penguinbait.com10:00
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johnxprez00, even themes that have a smaller font size?10:00
macoutethat crossed my mind when checking out the wiki-page
summatusmentisoh... and why are they scary?10:00
macoutefor fixing that10:00
keesjmacoute: so you want to try a new  os without formating?10:00
macoutekeesj: i can "format" but i dont want some mysterious .deb-file to do that for me10:01
keesjwell I guess one can loopmount10:01
summatusmentispenguinabait's .debs work well, and are probably the best way for those of us that don't want to use sfdisk10:01
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prez00johnx i tried all the themes.. at least the ones included10:01
summatusmentismacoute: .debs are in no way mysterious. As others have said, it's just a package with a script and binaries in it.10:02
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johnxprez00, those themes all have the same font size...I'm talking about other themes that have *different* font sizes...10:02
macoutesummatusmentis: i know that (and i too know that .deb is not the place for a bash script)10:02
macoutebut im talking about less-experienced users10:02
summatusmentiswhy are less experienced users, if they're installing these .debs, going to care that much?10:03
macouteif they use penguinbaits deb (and hopefully find it working) will they try xxx.deb too which will brick their devices?10:03
macoutewe should try to teach the new users into understanding what they are doing imo10:03
prez00johnx where do i get those?10:03
macouteand not give them the false idea of .debs that can be installed whenever you find one10:04
keesjmacoute: you are totaly missing the point10:04
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macoutekeesj: how long have you been using linux?10:04
keesj10 year +10:04
macouteand how long have you tried and teach new users?10:04
keesjevery day?10:04
macoutehow typical it is that they install something which they doesnt understand at all?10:04
macoutethey=new users10:05
tank-manyou know when you run an unknown .exe on windows, you can get bad results too10:05
keesjmacoute: I don't know10:05
macoutetank-man: that is true, thats why i dont recommend running an .exe-file whenever you find one10:05
johnxmacoute, so what is the solution?10:06
summatusmentisany reference to penguinbait's .debs warn users as to what the .debs will do...10:06
keesjI don't like that the .deb file i snot located on a server or that is not build from "source" so everybody can check the quality10:06
johnxkeesj, does it contain any binary components?10:07
johnxit's all scripts, right?10:07
macoutesummatusmentis: i dont see anything on penguinbait.com10:07
keesjmacoute: of often have you helpe people format theire harddrive? and how often has you install famoush's flasher?10:07
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johnxmacoute, that's fair. poke at penguinbait to add a warning10:08
summatusmentismacoute: how does one get to
macouteand i dont blame penguinbait, hes doing great work10:08
macoutesummatusmentis: by some html-compliant browser, i suppose? :)10:08
prez00johnx tks, will look10:08
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keesjjohnx: it's about thrust. pbait can change the .deb file any time he like , so 100 people can say "yes  it works" and ther rest is saying "it installed a troyan"10:08
macoutekeesj: and that is my point, too10:09
summatusmentismacoute: :) heh, but seriously, the only place I've ever seen it referenced is ITT threads, with numerous warnings10:09
johnxand a source package would change that how? or even a script with the same name?10:09
macouteor some evil guy can crack down penguinbaits site and then deliver false version of his .debs10:09
johnxalright, so the solution to that is GPG signed .debs10:10
summatusmentisI guess ultimately, if you're installing anything that you didn't either build yourself, or watch build, you're trusting that it'll do what it says10:10
macoutetrue too10:10
keesjno way gpg works either10:10
macoutebut i rather trust (for example) than foobar.ru10:10
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macouteand i rather trust 100 guys who are responsible (somehow) than only one guy10:11
johnxit's not like someone at vets every single line of code10:11
johnxroot kits or trojans would still be possible10:11
summatusmentiswhy? there's just as much possibility that gets cracked, or someone tampers with10:12
keesjit's about kowing the .deb file was creates from what source, and the only way to do that is to let somebody else create the package(extras' builder)10:12
macoutesummatusmentis: if gets hacked, i trust there are a lot of users who will notice it and quicly report it.10:12
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summatusmentishow is that any different from penguinbait's stuff?10:13
macouteif pbaits own computer at his home gets hacked while hes on a vacation, itll take 2 weeks before he notices it10:13
keesjI am totaly used to the amound ot clicks I have to press for any package. it doesn't help at all10:13
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summatusmentismacoute: modification of one package on isn't that different10:13
macoutesummatusmentis: actually, it is10:14
summatusmentisultimately it's a level of trust, and who you trust10:14
keesjanyway... hoppping out of this disc :P10:14
macoutethats true10:14
macouteand as i said, id rather trust (and ultimately nokia) as some random dudes website, dont you?10:15
summatusmentisso if users are going to blindly trust anyone, then they  probably deserve to have their device bricked, just like any windows user10:15
lbtI think there's a point being missed: it's not about any one repo; in general the intention is to have a main repo that is 'professionally' managed, open and relatively secure. Nothing stops other people distributing code; but nothing stops devs using the main repo either. One main repo is easier to secure than hundreds of smaller ones.10:15
macouteand users will blindly trust anyone if we teach them to do that10:15
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macoutebut if we tell them that you shouldnt install ANYTHING but from official repositories, they will learn  a valuable lesson :)10:16
summatusmentismacoute: I'm not going to just install anything, but I generally trust someone w/ a name for themselves in the community10:16
summatusmentisanything but repos? you're missing lots of software then :-/10:16
macoutesummatusmentis: and a lot of confusement too ;)10:17
lbtit's all about risk and risk assessment. Community standing affects risk perception.10:17
summatusmentisI agree, there needs to be a centralized repo10:17
summatusmentislbt: yes, agreed10:17
macouteand we are not talking about me or you, we are talking about that guy who bought his first-ever-linux-device and now wants to do something with it10:18
summatusmentishow does that guy end up at ITT?10:18
lbtusers aren't stupid : == department store. websites == market stalls10:18
macoute"hmm, lets see, a .deb-package (these are the ones that install easily) which promises me a 100% boost (downloadable from, lets try that one"10:18
lbtsome market stalls are superb, family run businesses10:18
lbtothers are run by "the family"10:19
macoutelbt: you speek wisely10:19
lbt(OTOH some departments stores aren't too ethical either...)10:19
summatusmentisI'm going to bed, 'night all10:19
macoutesummatusmentis: its 10 AM :)10:19
lbtit's 8am!10:20
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summatusmentismacoute: it's 2 AM10:22
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prez00is there a wifi scanner for n800, something that can beep as i find a wifi spot as i walk?10:26
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macouteprez00: that would be a battery killer, id suppose10:27
macoutebut you should get a prog like that quite easily, as all you need to add is a beep to the builtin connection manager10:28
prez00macoute, true, but sometimes would be nice..10:28
prez00macoute, once u find aps along your route no  need to do it again..10:29
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wizalardman|lunch: umm, your dsp-sbc deb doesn't install, says that it's incompatible application package etc10:34
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wizaand where the hell is my Documents folder in directory structure?10:40
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tank-manin /home/user/.some_hidden_dir10:42
tank-manin /home/user/.Documents ?10:42
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wizafound it, MyDocs/.documents10:45
wizabut I just remembered that I can't actually get to root since nokia's flashing apps don't work on intel mac10:45
wizaexcept that GUI thing for 770... and now I'm not in R&D mode :(10:46
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Italodanceguys how can i add a cover for an artist/song in my canola?10:56
Italodancethe pic/cover is available is on my mmc's10:56
tank-mani also would like to know :)10:57
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macoutedoesnt canola get the pic from the same directory as the songs are in?11:03
macoutethat is how most music players work11:03
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macouteso copy the image to the same directory as the music files are in and try11:03
tank-manitunes/psp can read a mp3 with the cover somehow embeded in them11:04
macouteif that doesnt work, maybe you need to convert the image somehow11:04
JaffaMorning, all11:04
Italodance the same directory as the songs can be ok?11:04
Kegetysseems quite wasteful to have it embedded in every mp3 of the album?11:04
lbtKegetys: OTOH it's always available - and how many kb of image does it use compared to the size of an mp311:05
macouteItalodance: yeah, though you need to have separate directories for every album you have11:05
lbt'cos disk is *sooo* expensive nowadays ;)11:06
wizalbt: thanks :D11:06
macoutelbt: actually i just thought that the disk is becoming the most advertised part of a computer (and the single most expensive part too) as the flash disks get more popular11:06
GAN800wiza, Nokia's flashers works fine on Intel Macs. :/11:06
Kegetyslbt: I guess you can sell me a cheap >8GB miniSD memory card then ;)11:06
macouteon a eeepc you really do value hard drive :)11:07
wizaGAN800: umm, how? :)11:07
lbtKegetys: as I said "how many kb of image does it use compared to the size of an mp3"11:07
GAN800run it? :\11:07
Kegetyslbt: well that would depend on the size and quality of course... but anyway it seems like a rather inefficient and ugly solution, I'd rather embed it on the album playlist maybe11:08
GAN800Safari sometimes chokes on the caching system, try downloading with Firefox.11:08
lbtand then I copy one mp3 from that album to my player - no picture :(11:08
lbtso that won't work... next!11:08
Kegetysnot that I really care about covers personally11:08
lbtit's actually a fairly hard problem to solve generically11:09
macouteItalodance: but actually, a google for cover image canola would turn up this one
lbtany specific instance can undoubtedly be optimised for11:09
macoute...and that would have told you that "Now you don't need to use another application for managing cover arts and video thumbnails. The standalone 3rd party Canola Tuning application has been turned into a plugin that integrate seamlessly into Canola and give you more control over your cover arts, video thumbnails by allowing you to update and delete unused cover arts as well as select your cover art sources."11:09
lbtbut by denormalising into every mp3 you gain a lot of flexibility11:09
macouteItalodance: so basically, install canola2-tuning-plugin11:10
lbtmacoute: I was talking about flash disks over the w'end. Did you know they can use more power than normal disks...11:11
macoutelbt: i blogged about that one a week ago or so, so yes, i did know :)11:11
macoutelbt: the article actually was kinda interesting11:11
macoutethe original article in toms hardware, not mine :D11:11
GeneralAntillesBesides, wiza, you don't need R&D for root. . . .11:11
infobotrumour has it, easyroot is an easy way to get root access on OS2008 and can be found at http://nitapps.com11:11
wizaI know, just installed it11:12
lbtapparently it's because the SSDs especially read in parallel and the current draw characteristics are worse for the battery11:12
lbtGeneralAntilles: shouldn't infobot point to
macoutelbt: and because SSD:s do not basically have any power optimization, so there is only 2 states, idle and running11:12
GeneralAntilleslbt, if you want to change him.11:12
lbthow :)11:12
tank-mani believe you can just comment out the line that checks for R&D mode in the script to gain root11:12
lbt~change infobot11:12
infobotthat doesn't look right11:12
GeneralAntilles~rootaccess is
infobotGeneralAntilles: okay11:13
lbtOK - ta...11:13
lbtthe guy I was with is one of the kernel devs and he's working on using various types of overlayfs and things with a homebrew SSD - v. interesting.11:15
timelyxmacoute: i wouldn't trust anyone to notice a hack11:21
timelyxmacoute: and nokia doesn't want you to assert that is their job11:22
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timelyxwiza: there are dozens of ways to get root w/o r&d, i use capture-root :)11:24
gomiamI'm more partial to becomeroot11:24
timelyxthe application manager is very clear that anything not coming for a very specific source isn't certified by Nokia and pretty much voids just about everything.11:25
timelyxgomiam: i'm partial to capture-root because i wrote it :)11:25
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ProteousI prefer sudoMakeMeRootNOW11:25
GeneralAntillesWe need somebody to maintain a root package in Extras. . . .11:25
gomiamtimelyx: LOL11:25
tank-mani have my dog click ok on those warnings :)11:25
gomiamtimelyx: what's that about warranty being voided by installing extra software?11:25
GeneralAntilleseasyroot is somewhat better than becomeroot because it's at least easy to find11:25
timelyxgomiam: have you read the dialog?11:25
gomiamyeah, kind of. Of course, those threats don't work here in Spain, so...11:26
Proteousyeah, so much for my first born, hope he's happy at nokia11:26
timelyxgomiam: oh really?11:26
jackganybody know how to stream video from pc to n800 ? I use gst-launch in the send side, mplayer in the receive side ~but when caching reach 18.67%,it stop and show no images~~ So another methods can realize this function? Are there other ways to achieve this ?11:26
gomiamyup. Warranty voiding because you installed some software or other is a null clause here, AFAIK.11:26
timelyxnice, i have a keyboard tray under my desk11:27
timelyxit's being held up by *one* screw11:27
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Proteousdon't lean on it11:27
timelyxProteous: no kidding11:27
timelyxthe dialog is fairly explicit11:28
timelyxand btw, if a judge actually makes Nokia liable for you installing a root kit via a .deb11:28
timelyxyou have serious problems w/ your legal system11:28
timelyxworse than .us. :)11:28
timelyxGeneralAntilles: :)11:29, pfff, WE ARE .com .net .org!!! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA11:29
timelyxhey, i have a .us and a .eu :)11:29
* timelyx wonders what www-src is11:30
GeneralAntillesWe still need a announcement of mxr.11:30
GeneralAntillestimelyx, I was thinking the same thing. . . .11:30
* GeneralAntilles pokes Jaffa.11:30
timelyxyeah, it's on my todo list for today11:30
zappppCould someone help me with connecivity related problem? I have tried to disconnect current connection with multiple ways but I can't get it working. Basically I want to close current connection and open a new one (ad-hoc). How I can do same thing with C or python that happens when disconnect is clicked in the connectivity UI??11:31
timelyxit's your reference to just about everything :)11:31
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timelyxseems to be the interfaces you have available11:32
timelyxooh, interesting11:32
* timelyx didn't realize had kernel sources11:32
timelyxno wonder it's bigger than my internal diablo reference :o11:32
timelyx(no, i don't hand write / review each page from ;-) )11:33
GeneralAntillesThat would make you a crazy person.11:33
timelyxsome people probably assume that i know everything about a web site i "maintain", i just want people to understand that it's a tool, i only know how to use it, not what it actually contains :)11:34
timelyxthe search i used fwiw was*h$11:34
timelyxi happened to know that connectivity's daemon is called icd (internet connectivity daemon)11:34
prez00what's best tutorial for calendar sync between n800 google calendar?11:41
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prez00i am now all linux.. phone, mot a1200, n800, thinkpad x60 ubuntu :-)11:42
prez00oops tp x6111:42
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atulwhile doing this in _86 "fakeroot apt-get install maemo-sdk-runtime" giving error message ": Sub-process /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)"11:52
atulHow to resolve ?11:52
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lbtatul: maybe  fakeroot apt-get update11:55
atullbt: ok I will try thanks11:56
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atullbt: it not working still causing error12:00
lbtdoes update work OK?12:01
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atullbt: yes12:08
lbtwhen you run the "fakeroot apt-get install maemo-sdk-runtime" command - is that the only output?12:09
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atullbt: ok I know  I will send u ther whole result12:12
disqquim talking onstage right now and i'm na nerd12:12
lbta nerd would be streaming it... :)12:12
JamieBennettOh, streaming, that would be way cool12:13
JamieBennetthope it's being recorded somewhere12:13
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atullbt: This is the output
lbtit looks like the scratchbox isn't properly installed : /scratchbox/tools/bin/sh: line 1: /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: No such file or directory12:15
lbtand gconftool-2: command not found12:16
atullbt: so what to next12:16
timelyxdpkg-preconfigure just isn't part of maeom12:16
atulshall  I Uninstall and do it form scratch one more time12:16
timelyxthat's a "feature"12:16
lbtinstall debconf12:17
timelyxpersonally, i'd try configuring certs/osso-clock/... and see what happens12:17
atullbt:  For installing anything it is giving me same error.12:17
lbttimelyx: do you know about this - I'm working it through (though atul - you did a dist-upgrade this time - be consistent please :)12:17
timelyxnope :)12:18
timelyxmy scratchbox was stolen :)12:18
lbtI nearly rm -rf'ed mine - oops12:18
timelyxlbt: i'd take a working box and ask it where gconftool-2 lives12:18
timelyx(i.e. which package owns it) and then i'd ask atul's box what's the status of that package12:19
timelyxatul: dpkg -l gconf212:19
atulDesired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold| Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed12:20
atul|/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad12:20
lbttimelyx: FWIW, on Diablo, debconf ==1.4.70.osso212:20
timelyxi can see that :)12:21
timelyx(i don't have a binary xref)12:21
jackgGeneral Antilles, I want to achieve functional about capturing the picture from webcam in the pc side and transmit this data to the n800, and i do not know whether mediaserv and table-encode can realize the function, So how to realize this:)thanks again12:22
lbtso atul try : apt-get install gconf2 debconf12:22
atullbt: ok12:23
atullbt:  same error it giving to me.12:23
lbttry : apt-get install debconf12:23
timelyxatul: what "same error"?12:23
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atullbt:, timelyx  This is the error message
timelyxum. no no no no no12:24
timelyxfakeroot apt-get install gconf212:24
atultimelyx: ok12:25
atultimelyx: same error.12:25
lbtatul: the last line of the huge error may be the same but that's not the important part...12:26
lbtthe bits saying "/usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: No such file or directory" etc are important12:26
timelyxatul: it can't possibly be the same error12:27
timelyxpastebin *just* my command + output12:27
timelyxlbt: really, trust me, dpkg-preconfigure is not important12:27
atultimelyx: I means it is giving error like not configuring dpkg12:27
atullike that12:27
lbtsure - just an example of an error message ...12:28
timelyxatul: um. pastebin12:28
timelyxpretend you are incapable of speaking English... all you're allowed to do is follow instructions and pastebin output12:28
timelyxno thinking allowed :)12:28
atultimelyx: this is error output12:30
timelyxoh fsck12:31
* timelyx curses12:31
timelyxapt sucks12:31
timelyxfakeroot apt-get -f install12:31
timelyxwhose brilliant idea was it to have a tool which actively ignores its arguments?12:31
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lbtclearly the developer knew he'd know better than you...12:32
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Both mud & mediautils use PHP to generate the simple template for the pages. But ferenc turned off PHP on *, so www-src contains the PHP and a shell script which generates the static HTML and deposits it in www12:34
atultimelyx: , lbt:, am facing this problem in 86 target in ARMEL it is working fine12:34
timelyxatul: yeah, i don't really care about that :)12:34
timelyxanyway, does pastebin the output from fakeroot apt-get -f install12:35
timelyx"What to do when apt-get fails"12:36
atultimelyx: lbt: This is fakeroot apt-get install output
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lbttimelyx: I'd try downloading the gconf2.deb and dpkg -i...12:37
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timelyxlbt: "yuck"12:37
lbtwell, it'll keep the package db clean and then apt should be able to -f12:38
timelyxatul: apt-get -f remove  certs osso-clock libosso-certman1 libosso-certman-dev multimediad osso-addressbook osso-applet-certman maemo-explicit12:38
timelyxw/ fakeroot12:38
atultimelyx: ok12:38
timelyxif that doesn't work, you can try: fakeroot dpkg -r  certs osso-clock libosso-certman1 libosso-certman-dev multimediad osso-addressbook osso-applet-certman maemo-explicit12:40
timelyx(or replace -r w/ --purge)12:41
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atultimelyx: ya some package it wont remove this is output
lbtyou know where gconf-schemas lives don't you....12:44
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rm_youlardman|lunch: so12:44
timelyxprogress :)12:44
timelyxfakeroot dpkg --purge  osso-addressbook osso-clock12:44
atultimelyx: ok12:45
atultimelyx: this time
timelyxdpkg sucks :)12:47
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timelyxi think at this point i'd do something like:12:48
timelyxdpkg -L osso-clock12:48
drakois that information accurate?12:48
timelyxfakeroot rm /var/lib/dpkg/*/*osso-clock*12:48
drakothat n810 should play mp4?12:48
lbteek - really12:48
lbtrather than just downloading the deb and dpkg -i ?12:48
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lardmanlong lunch that one :)12:49
timelyxlbt: i consider the risk in getting an incompatible deb worse than the risk in destroying a registration for one12:49
lardmanrm_you: all working12:49
johnxdrako, yeah, up to 400x240 or so12:49
tank-mandrako, yea mplayer can play all that12:49
timelyxhowever, atul is free to follow your advice12:49
timelyxi'm off to work12:49
drakowhat about the media player that comes with him?12:50
rm_youlardman: you figure out what was slowing it down?12:50
macoutedrako: that doesnt play mp4 iirc12:50
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timelyxthat's the official page12:50
timelyxanything that is wrong there is nokia's fault12:50
lardmanrm_you: no, but probably something to do with the ARM being run that little bit slower12:50
lardmanrm_you: as a dsp task was obviously running12:50
lardmanrm_you: moved the input and output buffers to faster local SRAM and it sorted it out12:51
drakoi have a mp4 video and isn't playing it12:51
drakoit says codec not supported12:52
drakotry to download it from here
rm_youis mp4 a codec or a container?12:52
lbtatul: try : fakeroot -f install gconf212:52
lbtthen pastebin12:52
johnxdrako, it might be the ac3 audio12:53
johnxrm_you, yes12:53
atullbt: ok12:53
nomisdrako: or the size of the video.12:54
drakoto much?12:54
rm_youdoes mediaplayer support h264? cause i know that can be in an mp412:54
johnxdrako, yeah, too big. I'll try the ipod version. the psp version might work too12:54
atullbt, it install it says already new version is install12:54
drakoi'll try the h26412:54
johnxdrako, anything bigger than 640x480 probably won't play well12:55
rm_youi think i tested h264 in mplayer and even mplayer couldnt play h264 very well... it is VERY processor intensive to decode12:55
rm_youyou'd be best off with avi/xvid anyway12:55
johnxmp4 w/ mp3 audio would be fine12:56
johnxthat's pretty close to xvid in terms of the video codec12:56
rm_youyou can get about 1200 video bitrate12:56
drakojust to know wich media es best for it12:56
rm_youactual mp4, like mpeg412:56
johnxwhich is totally overkill for everyone except rm_you :)12:56
rm_youit looks beautiful12:56
rm_youi should upload a sample AMV12:56
johnxrm_you, can you taste the colors? :P12:56
rm_youso people can see what a GOOD encode looks like12:56
* rm_you uploads Koop12:57
* rm_you uploads Koop's Skittles AMV12:57
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rm_youthere we go:
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lardmanwhat we need is an IVA2....13:05
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rm_youanyway, that will play fine even with a2dp13:06
johnxor those ARM ASM decoding libs13:06
lardmans/IVA2/working IVA2 ;)13:06
pupnikcongrats lardman !13:07
lardmanthanks pupnik13:08
johnxyeah, very impressive work lardman13:08
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lardmanhas anyone tried it yet?13:08
lardmanother than me13:08
johnxi have13:08
johnxworks pretty well13:08
johnxfor some reason it doesn't behave well when I use mplayer as a canola backend13:09
johnxit's probably some option that canola feeds mplayer13:09
rm_youthere we go: too13:09
rm_youi am about to do some comparisons, lardman13:09
lardmanmight also be an issue with the ARM being underclocked though13:09
atullbt: Update is working fine but upgrade is not it is giving this error log
lardmanrm_you: cool13:09
johnxalso, what was the sudden leap you made that got you from 4 seconds of audio to having it working near perfect?13:09
lardmanrm_you: I was seeing ~20% CPU usage by mplayer when using the DSP13:10
johnxsame here, at 330Mhz13:10
lardmanjohnx: moved the input & output buffers to faster internal SRAM rather than slow SDRAM13:10
johnxand that made all the difference it appears13:10
lbtand what's the output of the last command I mentioned?13:10
lardmanjohnx: do you know what it was beforehand?13:10
johnxwith software a2dp in diablo it's around 10-30% at 400Mhz13:11
lardmanjohnx: yep; there are probably some other bits which could be moved across, the sbc->priv struct is large so I stuck it in (almost unlimited) SDRAM13:11
johnxif locked at 400MHz it works pretty well but there are skips13:11
lardmandid the install script work ok?13:12
johnxsetting mplayer's cache seems to affect both dsp-sbc and cpu-sbc13:12
johnxinstall script worked great13:12
johnxwould you be interested in me making a .deb for it?13:12
atullbt: gconf2 it is giving same error messages that i pastbin13:12
johnxif I can figure out why it doesn't behave in canola and fix that I think a lot of people would be interested13:13
lardmanjohnx: cool13:13
johnxalso, is there a way to switch back and forth between dsp-sbc and cpu-sbc without uninstalling?13:13
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lbtatul: if you don't paste the errors I can't help. Maybe you should try timelyx's suggestions.13:14
lardmanjohnx: you can probably rename the sbcenc.o file and then it will fall back to sw encoding13:15
atullbt : ok i will pastbin13:15
lardmanjohnx: I should add some env var logic in there to let people change it13:15
atullbt: This is gconf2 Error log
johnxhmm...maybe fakeroot apt-get install gconf213:17
johnxfakeroot apt-get --reinstall install gconf213:17
rm_youso how do i use this13:18
rm_youdo i use a2dp enable still?13:18
lbtyes - I asked atul to do fakeroot but he missed that (again)13:18
atuljohnx, it is giving this error message
lardmanrm_you: yes13:19
atullbt i did it using fakeroot13:19
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johnxatul, sorry, try the second command I posted: fakeroot apt-get --reinstall install gconf213:19
lbtthat's not what the pastebin says...13:19
johnxthe --reinstall line is the key13:19
lardmanrm_you:  do you have a link to that deb? I'll put in an url to my email to the list13:20
johnxthough I don't know how you have gconf2 but no gconftool-2 ...13:20
rm_youjohnx prolly does... it's in the first post in his thread13:20
lbtjohnx: we assumed no gconf2 since no gconftool-2  ... then the install said 'latest verison' ... odd.13:20
timelyxlbt: i thought we asked for dpkg -l gconf213:21
lardmangot it13:21
timelyx12:19 timelyx atul: dpkg -l gconf213:21
lbtwe did... but I suspect atul didn't paste all the output...13:21
rm_youthis is definately not working right13:21
timelyxheh, he only pasted the header, not the answer :)13:22
johnxrm_you, try it from the CLI first13:22
sp3000timelyx: food closes in 813:22
timelyxoh fsck13:22
timelyxsp3000: can you get food for me?13:22
atultimelyx: lbt: This is the output [sbox-CHINOOK_X86: ~] >  dpkg -l gconf213:23
atul| Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed13:23
atul|/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)|/ Name           Version        Description+++-=======ii  gconf2         2.16.0-1osso9  GNOME configuration database system.13:23
rm_youyeah it is exploding...13:23
sp3000that doesn't sound practical :)13:23
rm_youvideo is just frozen13:23
rm_yousound choppy13:23
lbtatul: pastebin13:23
rm_youonly at 35% tho13:23
lbtand last time you missed the critical last line...13:23
timelyxorder it13:23
timelyxvegy pizza or vegitarian13:23
johnxrm_you, try with an mp313:23
timelyxi'll be there shortly13:23
timelyxcall me13:23
rm_youdunno if i have one >_>13:24
atultimelyx: lbt: This is output
rm_youyeah i do13:24
lbtyes, we know that now :)13:24
rm_youCPU on performance...13:24
lbtnow run johnx's command...  fakeroot apt-get --reinstall install gconf213:24
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lbtand pastebin the output13:24
rm_youmplayer is at ~20%13:25
rm_youplaying pretty good....13:25
johnxrm_you, for sbc-dsp it will automatically switch it to 330 so it can turn up the dsp13:25
rm_yougot a couple microskips but it seems alright now13:25
johnxI think the skipping might still be a result of the alsa subsystem that Nokia uses...13:25
rm_you... ?? dsp/0 process?13:26
johnxsomething is waaay odd with that13:26
rm_youso how would i get it to go back to software encoding quickly for comparisons13:26
lardmanrename the dsp task13:26
rm_yourename the sbcenc.o file?13:26
rm_youfrom your line way up13:26
rm_youwhere is that?13:27
lardmanit switches back to sw method whenever the dsp fails13:27
* lcuk yawns and stretches, looks at the time and smiles13:27
atullbt: timelyx: This is gconf output13:28
JaffaYay, maemo-community open.13:31
lbtok, it reinstalled gconf (but then failed to find gconftool-2)... hmm now run: fakeroot apt-get -f install13:31
atullbt: it is failing with this message
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lbtthat looks very screwed - I'm going to suggest that you reinstall the _86 scratchbox.13:40
atullbt:  ok13:40
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lardmanX-Fade: thanks for the front page bump :)13:45
Italodancehi guys13:46
X-Fadelardman: Your efforts deserve attention. Although next time, take a few seconds to actually write a few lines about what you did ;)13:46
lardmanhi Italodance13:46
Italodancefriends ur canola 9 loading is slow too?13:46
lardmanX-Fade: just posted to the list13:46
johnxItalodance, it takes about 30 seconds here13:46
Italodancejohnx me too :(  so it's for all13:47
johnxit's a big program13:47
Italodancejohnx also some videos get freeze13:47
Italodancefor the play and run13:47
lardmanX-Fade: I just editted it to say "Diablo only" so it've gone from the front page. Sorry!13:47
lardmanI really can't type13:48
Italodancebtw friend my problem is solved forever  :D finally nokia fixed it for me and my country :D13:48
johnxItalodance, I'm glad to hear that :D13:49
lardmandneary: maemo-community isn't mentioned here
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dnearylardman: indeed13:51
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lcukis the verisign certificate self signed for :      svn checkout --username me   ?13:56
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X-Fadelcuk: No, there should be a proper certificate for that?13:57
aquatixey, lcuk, did you release a .deb btw?13:57
lcukError validating server certificate for '':13:57
lcuk - The certificate is not issued by a trusted authority. Use the13:57
lcuk   fingerprint to validate the certificate manually!13:57
* aquatix will download the tarball otherwise13:57
lcukno aquatix im trying to get svn working13:57
aquatixah, kk :)13:58
aquatixdon't rush13:58
lcuk~lart svn13:58
* infobot slaps svn upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh13:58
lcuklbt, i got git working easier than all this ..13:59
lcukis it possible its my 810 that cannot validate the certificate?13:59
aquatixlcuk: hm, firefox doesn't complain here13:59
aquatixcould be indeed13:59
johnxpossibly svn doesn't have the root certificate but firefox does14:04
aquatixnot using the global certificate store?14:06
johnxall I know is that I always have problems like that with svn14:07
X-FadeOr the intermediate certificate that verisign requires.14:07
lcukit doesnt complain if i open in the browser on my device either, hmm14:08
johnxone problem with a2dp: I tend to put my n800 someplace while wearing my a2dp headphones and though the music continues I forget where I put my tablet O_o14:14
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lardmanjohnx: triangulation, walk in different directions and measure when the music stops ;)14:15
johnxit's affected most by solid objects it seems14:15
lcukok, i checked out the bare version.  i copied all the source files into that folder, i did svn add, now i am trying to commit.  lardman, when you commit which folder are you in and what command line do you run?14:16
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lardmanlcuk: if you just do "svn commit" it commits everything you checked out14:16
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lardmanthat has changed of course14:17
lardmanotherwise you can do "svn commit ./some_dir -m "blah""14:17
lcukahhhh, so i dont mention where i want to commit it to14:18
lbtlcuk: of course... git is the solution to svn :)14:18
lardmanno, it knows that already14:18
lcuki hope so, lemme see14:18
lcukdavid, agree entirely, even i got it to work :D14:18
lcukdid this just ask for *my* root password, or for garages?:14:19
lcukNokia-N810-50-2:/media/mmc1/liqbase# svn commit -m "initial upload"14:19
lcukAuthentication realm: <> Subversion User Authentication14:19
lcukPassword for 'root':14:19
lardmanit shouldn't need either14:20
lardmanunless your files are owned by root perhaps14:20
johnxwon't it want his garage user's password?14:20
lcukits asking that now john14:21
lardmanjohnx: not after the first checkout14:21
lcukit asked for root, then my username then my userpass14:21
lardmanah ok14:21
johnxvery strange14:21
* lcuk doesnt know his pass yet14:21
* lcuk cries at his total ineptitude14:22
lardmanwe all join him ;p14:22
* keesj first looks up what ineptitude is14:23
lcukphhht:P all i ever wanted to do was code and play14:23
lcukomg its "adding ..."14:24
johnxlcuk, you need to hire an intern or something14:24
lcuki agree14:24
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lcuki dont think my current boss would though14:25
lcukTransmitting file data ................................................14:25
lcukCommitted revision 1.14:25
* lcuk breathes once again14:26
lardmanlcuk: from now on it's nice and easy14:26
lcuki hope so, im gonna add that to my nightly script14:27
aquatixjohnx: what a2dp headset do you have btw?14:27
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johnxmotorola HT82014:27
johnxkinda old now, I think it's essentially the 2nd generation of bt headphones14:27
johnxand doesn't exactly work great with glasses :/14:28
aquatixah :)14:28
aquatixgood sound though?14:28
johnxyeah, as good as a2dp can do14:28
johnxit even has a little jack so I can use it wired14:28
johnxsounds noticeably better wired14:28
* aquatix sticks with wired then14:29
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johnxit is nice in some situations where wires just get in the way14:29
aquatixbtw, when using svn on my n810, i always get some error message about a lock file or something failing14:29
aquatixjohnx: true14:29
johnxbut I like my $8 toshiba wrap arounds better for comfort...14:29
* aquatix loves his sennheiser px20014:29
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johnxyeah, if you're a real audiophile a2dp isn't really an option I would assume14:30
aquatixwell, i'm not a real audiophile [not having silver speaker cables and such], but i like good sound14:31
aquatixa2dp doesn't have a lot of bandwidth i think14:31
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johnxand it's limited because the encoding/decoding has to happen in realtime on embedded devices so it's optmized for simplicity not sound quality14:32
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johnxthere are headphones that accept mp3s directly, which would be the way to go, but I don't even know if desktop linux supports that14:32
aquatixhm, that sounds better indeed14:33
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johnxof course, then you're just a short distance away from just getting a pair of headphones with integrated mp3 player...14:34
lcukso now that i have added the files, if i build and reupload it wont know that there are new files (like the *.o etc)14:34
aquatixjohnx: myeah, i prefer general use headphones14:35
aquatixand i have ogg too14:35
aquatixand movies :)14:35
Italodancewhere can i find atabake at my n800 dir?14:38
Italodancejohnx i want without x-term  want to find it by emelfm214:40
johnxit's still in the same place14:40
Italodanceok tnx14:40
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Italodancejohnx> can it louder?
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johnxI don't know. I have loud headphones. :)14:48
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lardmanI agree with it sounding strange14:50
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johnxyeah, it seems to slow down sometimes right before skipping14:50
lardmanI was wondering if that was my encoder or the codec itself, sounds the same as the old ARM encoder did though14:51
johnxbut cpu-sbc has the same problem from time to time14:51
johnxnow the weird thing is I don't see this happening on my zaurus14:51
lardmanthe skipping?14:51
lcuklardman, is it possible to do an audio diff (even using an FFT to visualise and see where yours differs from the other algorithm?14:51
lardmantry bumping the governor to performance14:51
johnxor the weird slowdown / deeper sound14:52
johnxlardman, I already did14:52
lardmanlcuk: probably yes14:52
johnxit won't matter for sbc-dsp anyways14:52
lardmanlcuk: ah, mine doesn't differ, it produces the same output as the ARM encoder14:52
lardmanjohnx: I wonder if that's just part of the codec14:52
lardmanjohnx: would be interesting to play with the bit pool & other settings and see what sounds best14:53
johnxwell, like I said, it doesn't happen on the zaurus...which should be slower14:53
lardmanwhat version of Bluez?14:53
Italodancewell finally Boost Canola Volume rule  can do it louder?14:53
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lcukjohnx, is it possible other apps are taking cpu time away - ive noticed it with various things and know liqbase can judder occasionally14:53
johnxlcuk, I've sat there with htop open14:54
johnxit honestly seems like somehow buffer and period size that mplayer is getting is the same on zaurus and desktop and *different* on the tablet14:54
lcukjohnx, ive tried that also, theres some sort of heartbeat within the nokia which causes a short cpu spike every ~ 1/3 second  it never registers as a high task on top but i know its there14:55
Italodance HUH!14:55
johnxlcuk, but if it has enough buffer it shouldn't be affected14:55
lardmanjohnx: exactly14:55
lcukagreed actually14:55
lardmanjohnx: you using the same version of Bluz on the Zaurus?14:56
johnxand I can push my zaurus to swapping without a2dp being affected because of that buffer14:56
lardmanand which Zaurus model?14:56
johnxC1000 pxa27014:56
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johnxand debian14:56
lardmanI'll build an image for my c750 and do some comparison testing14:56
johnxlet me test right now and see how it behaves in angstrom14:57
lardmanlcuk: what have you done?! Garage is soooo slooow14:57
lcukoh crap, i told you this would happen14:58
* lcuk reboots the internet14:58
lcuksorry folks, save your work for a minute14:58
lcukpupnik :) rev 1 of liqbase is parked in the garage14:59
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lcukdo i stop and rest now, or does it all speed up even more?15:00
* lardman wonders where the bitpool, freq, subbands, etc are set in Bluez and whether they have those values for any particular reason15:01
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* lardman will do some grepping when he heads home for lunch15:01
crashanddielcuk, define all15:01
lcukhey crap, the internet is broken15:02
lardmanjohnx: I'll be back on in ~10min, let me know then will you15:02
aquatixmy internet works fine! too bad it's so small...15:02
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lcukmoar code, moar modules, moar support15:03
johnxk, I'll do some testing15:03
lcukmorning crashanddie by the way, i see you have reregistered :)15:03
crashanddieyeah, I did15:03
aquatixlcuk: next revision is only diffs, so it should commit faster15:04
* aquatix quite likes svn15:04
lcukyer aquatix ive just done a quick revision already to see15:04
crashanddielcuk, you using git to commit to svn ?15:04
lcukno, i have used svn, but git was working first and was simpler to setup local branches and manage between them and seemed more ummm logical15:05
lcukbut that might just have been first shop syndrome15:05
crashanddieI have spent hours understanding how svn worked, first time I used it15:06
crashanddietrying to setup repos, and stuff15:06
* robtaylor uses git-svn for all his svn trees15:06
crashanddiewith git... git init15:06
lcukits right, its on now, ill cross whichever bridges are required when i come to them15:06
lcuknow, next step: packaging..15:07
lcukwell, after work that is15:07
crashanddiegarage still shows 0 svn updates/adds15:07
lcukit shouldnt15:08
crashanddieoh, I was on the main garage liqbase page15:08
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lcukoh crap! ive put pybook in there :S i best make sure its attributed and im ok to do it15:08
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lcuk2is a public posting to a forum basically covered by public domain ?15:14
johnxyou mean if you post to a forum are your words automatically considered "public domain"?15:15
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johnxin the US you have an automatic copyright on anything you write, but that wasn't always the case15:15
lcuk2johnx, no - a small python test frontend to liqbase was posted and i accidentally included it in the first svn update15:16
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lcuk2ive mailed the guy and am putting attributation headers on it15:16
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lcuk2its not mine and its his decision what to do with it15:16
lcuk2but i dont think svn will allow me to vape from all revisions15:17
johnxlcuk2, yeah, it's under his copyright, but if it's a derivative of your GPLed code it's automatically GPLed15:17
lcuk2no johnx, all it does is calls liqbase with params15:17
lardman|homelcuk2: what code is this?15:17
* johnx is not a lawyer of course...15:17
lcuk2someone wrote a python file selector for liqbase :)15:18
* lardman|home crosses fingers that BT dongle won't cause kernel panic15:18
lardman|homelcuk2: ah, ok15:18
johnxlcuk2, alright, not derivative, but I highly doubt it will become an issue15:18
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lcuk2no i dont either, am just making sure15:18
lcuk2ive mailed him anyway :)15:19
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pekujathat's a polite thing to do in any case15:19
lcuk2it may be better anyway if it does stay, i have been wondering how to do file selectors ;)15:19
jotthey lcuk2 congratulations for release the source!15:19
lcuk2jott :)15:19
herwoodrobtaylor: are you online?15:20
lcuk2right, ive got to get to a client site in a bit, so ill vanish15:20
johnxlardman|home, testing under debian/n800 and then angstrom/c100015:20
lcuk2but if anyone can think of a way for me to build packages on the device (and maybe perhaps possibly talk me through later) it would be good :D15:21
lardman|homejohnx: I might have missed your reply, what version of bluez-utils does Angstrom/Debian use atm?15:21
johnxlcuk2, what are you using for a build system now? makefiles? autoconf? plain gcc?15:21
johnxdebian is on latest15:21
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johnxangstrom 2007 is on 3.23 I believe15:22
lcuk2johnx, makefile15:22
lcuk2i cant get autoconf on device15:22
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jottlcuk2: you could add the diablo/sdk or chinook/sdk repository and install "dpkg-dev"15:25
johnxdefinitely look at how much apt-get wants to install before you let it install though15:26
lcuk2holy moly! thats an extra 28mb15:26
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johnxtime to boot from SD or get into scratchbox15:26
lcuk2if a package was created elsewhere is there a short refresh contents method which i could just rebuild existing package with?15:28
lcuk2ie do the heavy config in scratchbox, then just dailies can be done on device15:28
jottlcuk2: you could always build a package manually..15:28
lcuk2but i really must go, ill read back later15:28
lcuk2i might have to jott15:28
lardman|homelcuk2: with a bit of time you could write a script to package it like the makeipkg scripts of old15:28
jottbut it can get messy quite fast15:28
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johnxwhich would pretty much exclude it from extras :/15:29
lcuk_outkhertan will know about this lot..15:29
lcuk_outhe has a packager for the device15:29
lcuk_outthanks guys anyway - back later15:31
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lardman|homehmm, how do you BT pair with Ubuntu?15:36
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lardman|homesilly question15:37
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lardman|homehmm, perhaps not so silly15:42
lardman|homeany thoughts as to how to pair a bt headset with ubuntu?15:42
johnxI can tell you in a sec...15:42
aquatixlardman|home: erm, start the bluetooth-applet15:43
aquatixdevices [or settings or whatev]15:43
lardman|homehmm, yeah, I tried that, no luck15:43
lardman|homeI just tried "hcitool scan" and no reply either15:43
aquatixis it discoverable?15:44
lardman|homeyep, set on pair mode15:44
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lardman|homehmm, I'm wondering if there's something up with the Ubuntu BT connection15:45
lardman|homeI'll get my N810 and see if it can see that15:45
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lardman|homehmm, N810 can't see PC, PC can't see anything15:48
eichi_the default jabber client for maemo has a very strange handling with the "buddy list", not equal to all the other jabber clients i know15:48
johnxlardman|home, worked first try here. I just put headphones in pairing mode, made a .asoundrc and did mplayer -ao alsa:device=bluetooth15:48
lardman|homejohnx: I used your script on Ubuntu15:48
johnxinteresting idea15:48 might not want to15:49
johnxit mucks with the bluetooth settings in /etc/bluetooth15:49
johnxit does make backups though15:49
lardman|homedoes it restore the backups if I uninstall it?15:50
johnxI ... think so15:50
johnxit's been a long time since I wrote it15:50
lardman|home:)15:50 seems to be down so I can't get the packages I need for my zaurus...15:51
johnxstill, I'll test on Debian/N800 at least15:51
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lardman|homeok, uninstalled & moved original file back, now I can see things at least ;)15:55
johnxah, BTW, your sbc-dsp code doesn't seem to work on my desktop either. I guess we're even :D15:56
lardman|homeyou need a dsp emulator ;)15:56
lardman|homeright, so it's seen and bound now, but I've still not had to put in the passcode15:57
johnxwell, just try mplayer and see what happens15:57
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lardman|homenothing, the headset is still in pairing mode too15:58
johnxok, then it's not paired yet15:58
lardman|homewell it's "Bonded"15:58
lardman|homenot sure how to get it to ask for a code15:59
johnxI just put mine in pairing mode and played to it with mplayer15:59
johnxa little popup appeared asking for a code15:59
lardman|homehmm, no such luck here16:01
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herwoodhas anyone ever implemented other dbus service's interface, like here:
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johnxlardman|home, hcitool cc <your headphones>16:02
GeneralAntillesInteresting. Why instead of, X-Fade?16:03
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lardman|homejust hangs16:04
johnxwhen it popped up the code thing it did it behind a window for me16:04
lardman|homeno, I've checked that16:05
lardman|homethe hcitool cc times out16:05
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johnxmaybe try restarting your bluetooth system16:06
lardman|homebt applet preferences shows the headset is Bonded and connected, I can't even delete it16:06
johnxsudo /etc/init.d/bluetooth restart16:06
lardman|homeI've restarted already a few times16:06
lardman|homewhich way does the trust go, does the headset remember the computer's MAC?16:07
johnxthe trust goes both ways16:07
johnxbetween a phone and computer instead of a 0000 keycode you'd pick a unique keycode on both16:07
lardman|homeand both would remember that somewhere?16:08
johnxI don't really know16:08
johnxhang on16:08
johnxmy first guess is /var/lib/bluetooth/<mac>/16:09
lardman|homethat only has my PC's BT dongle MAC16:10
lardman|homeI might try setting a default pin in hcid.conf16:10
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lardman|homeno luck their either :(16:13
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GeneralAntillesLet's see, alternative OSes for the NITs. Debian, Mamona, Poky, Ubuntu, . . .16:14
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keesjmany alternatives but only on solution :p16:15
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GeneralAntillesNo, I agree. ;)16:15
GeneralAntillesBut I'm documenting them on the wiki.16:16
keesjhow is the official one called?16:16
GeneralAntillesOfficial wiki or official OS?16:16
keesjITOS right16:17
lardman|homeargh, it's broken on my N810 now too16:17
GeneralAntillesMaemo, actually.16:17
johnxlardman|home, it can only pair to one at a time16:17
johnxon the tablet you'll have to re-pair16:17
RST38hheh, two days pass - and the same people are still here!:)16:17
keesjRST38h: read all about it on
lardman|homejohnx: ok16:18
lardman|homeargh, still not working16:19
lardman|home~lart BT on Linux for being a pita16:19
* infobot makes a balloon animal out of BT on Linux for being a pita16:19
timelesserr, pita tastes good...16:20
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johnxlardman|home, remove the device listing in maemo, put your headset into pairing mode, pair on maemo16:20
RST38hI wonder why would tele2 gprs mess with control sequences in ssh...16:21
RST38hthis should not be happening right?16:21
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johnxcontrol sequences? as in keystrokes sent over ssh?16:22
timelessdata:text/html,<img width=500 src="">16:22
lardman|homejohnx: done that, re-paired, rebooted, still not working16:22
timelesscould someone tell me what that's a picture of?16:22
johnxis mplayer hanging on maemo or are you getting an error?16:22
RST38hjohnx: yes16:22
johnxRST38h, that should not be happening16:23
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RST38hweird crap.16:23
lardman|homean error, Unknown PCM bluetooth and then a few more16:23
robtaylorherwood: am now16:24
RST38hon the other hand, I have internet now. Isnt it wonderful?:)16:24
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lardman|homehmm, a2dp disable has enabled it16:24
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lardman|homeslightly worrying ;)16:24
RST38hmaybe it is a toggle?16:25
lardman|homeback to work16:25
lardman|homedunno, johnx?16:25
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johnxa2dp toggle should be the toggle16:25
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johnxbut it's also possible my script is broken16:25
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jotttimeless: looks like an animal skull (mask) and very long claws16:28
GeneralAntillestimeless, V for Vendetta
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GeneralAntillesshit. . . .16:31
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jotti feel offended :P16:32
GeneralAntillesJust finished writing up the alternative oses page and I hit cmd-w in the wrong damn application.16:32
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* GeneralAntilles starts over.16:33
GeneralAntillesThat's why you should do your editing it a text editor, folks. ;)16:33
johnxthat's why I have firefox keep the post buffer (?) for closed windows16:33
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timelessyou need to install undo reboot device :)16:34
wndI always wanted embedded vim in gecko...16:35
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herwoodrobtaylor: I'm still having problems with the dbus thing and I was wondering that could you still give me a couple of tips?16:36
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wndnomis, I meant using vim in arbitrary textarea. besides that thing failed to do the first thing I tried. it looks nice, though. :-)16:39
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wndnot even dG works as it should16:42
aquatixwms: ?16:42
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pekujaI neve16:43
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wndiirc vimperator didn't affect text editing, only parts of navigation and rendering16:43
nomiswnd: dG works for me.16:44
* aquatix remembers having vim embedded in a textarea16:44
aquatixor something like that16:44
wndfor me it also deletes line above the cursor16:44
nomiswnd: oh, right.16:45
wndand "x" doesn't work properly in visual mode16:45
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* Stskeeps returns to the internets16:46
aquatixwms: ah, something like this:
wndtitle looks promising16:47
pekujawhy do you need that?16:47
GeneralAntillesAlright, it's done:
pekujaactually, I guess it would be pretty handy for writing blog posts and such16:47
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wndI figured that gecko-based vim was exactly what I needed when I was using web-based forums more often16:49
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wndand as for weblogs, I ended up writing my own set of weblogging scripts so that I could write and edit entries with vim, and publish things from command line16:50
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pekujawnd, great :-)16:51
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pekujabut yeah, web-based forums would be one, if you write a lot of posts16:52
lardmanjohnx: ok16:52
pekujaor write really long posts16:52
GeneralAntillesOooh, new profiles going up today.16:52
lardmanjohnx: I'll probably grab an Angstrom image and test on mu c750, save breaking my build computer :)16:52
timelessgan: eh?16:52
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Installing it right now ;)16:52
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JaffaX-Fade: me want the shiny16:53
timelessrequires js16:53
* timeless no like16:53
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johnxlardman, sounds good, but appears down16:54
JamieBennettprofiles look good16:54
lardmanjohnx: no great rush16:54
johnxnm, word is it should be back16:54
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lardmanjohnx: works for me....16:54
johnxyeah, just came back16:54
GeneralAntillesHehe, IRC nick field + == karma whoring?16:55
lardmanI plan to patch their version of bluez-utils to spit out the data about the freq, bitpool size, subbands, etc. that they are trying to encode, see if they are the same as ours16:55
* GeneralAntilles laughs maniacally.16:55
* Jaffa grins16:56
timelessonly one irc name?16:56
lardmanjohnx: you use a CF BT card I assume?16:56
johnxusb actually16:56
lardmanah, ok16:56
johnxthe cheapest one I could fine years ago :)16:56
lardmanI'll have to dig out my CF card and try to remember the incantations to get it working16:57
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* timeless rotfl16:57
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timelessthe error accessing at the end is great16:57
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GeneralAntillestimeless, it'll only be another 8 months to get multiple IRC nicks. ;)16:58
wndoh the joy. firefoo can actually start vim to allow easy editing for textareas. :-)16:58
wndof textareas, even16:59
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robtaylorherwood: it might be best to ask on #dbus17:00
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herwoodrobtaylor: ok17:06
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* johnx sleeps17:16
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Mikhohmm, I wonder if there's something wrong in me. For a brief second I considered using vim or emacs17:22
Mikhoafter realizing the automatic word wrap feature in pico is actually extremely annoying in some cases17:22
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johnxMikho, use joe17:25
johnxthat's where I went after pico17:25
johnxbefore ending up in vi17:25
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johnxlardman|afk, tested a2dp in angstrom, got around 20-25% CPU usage at 416MHz, got the same skips and slowdowns as in a2dp on the n800, so I guess it is just problem of low speed CPUs being asked too much17:26
johnxbuffersize was the same as os2008, period size was 102417:27
* johnx really sleeps17:27
Mikhohmm, maybe I will17:29
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timelessjaffa: ping :)17:38
timeless(and gan)17:38
timelessi'm finally working on the next release notes17:38
timelessany preference for how to see things?17:39
lardman|afkjohnx: ok, thanks17:39
timelessi can work from a text file and you can watch as i go17:39
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timelessin which case there'd be no links in it, not normal anyway17:39
GeneralAntillesNo preference, whatever works for you.17:39
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timelessgan: share w/ jaffa17:43
timelessnote that it's going to take a while...17:44
GeneralAntillesGood god17:44
GeneralAntillesI can see why. . . .17:44
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timelessthen there's thhe minor detail that i have to strip out all the internal links...17:46
timelessnow i just get to figure out if a given patch is live or dead17:48
timelessthat's annoying, the patch seems alive17:48
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* timeless sighs17:50
timelessi hate this part :)17:50
timelessthe bug i'm looking at was "fixed" in chinook by backing out a certain fix17:50
timelessbut it seems that they managed to "resolve" the bug somehow for diablo and recommit some fix for the other thign17:51
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jahorhi, please i could not found it on the web now ... could be saved configuration from chinook restored in diablo ? ... after flashing to diablo and restoring configuration, my n810 is very unstable and reboots too often17:57
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GeneralAntillesCorrupt internal card?17:57
GeneralAntillesThere really shouldn't be a lot of issues with restoring a Chinook backup on Diablo.17:58
GeneralAntillesBut internal card corruption + virtual memory is a big cause of instability and reboots.17:58
GeneralAntillesEspecially with the N810, as the internal card basically ships corrupted.17:58
X-FadeNew profiles are active :)17:58
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Purty17:59
vegaiso, Android runs on N81018:01
vegaiI hear18:01
timelessbugzilla_reported has no content:
qwerty12Ahh, that reminds me, I've got to release my touchscreen working kernel for N800 too :)18:02
X-Fadetimeless: True, that plugin doesn't provide links yet.18:02
GeneralAntillesNor does discussion.18:02
X-FadeSame thing ;)18:02
timelesscan someone please explain why lays out differently from mine?18:02
X-FadeAlthough discussion will show up when the forum feature goes live.18:03
timelessnote that i have an avatar and qgil doesn't18:03
X-FadeAnd qgil should have an avatar too..18:03
timelessyeah well...18:03
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timelessignore that :)18:03
* timeless shrugs18:04
timelesshe doesn't :)18:04
X-Fadetimeless: I do see it..18:04
timelesswell, i don't :)18:04
timelessand i do see the banner at the top18:04
GeneralAntillesHrm, under "Publish account details" it says "Username, first and last name are mandatory", but there are checkboxes next to First name and Last name. . . .18:05
timelessyeah welll..18:05
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jahorGeneralAntilles: ufff that doesn't sound good... i there a good way to find the problem with internal memory corruption ? .... maybe installing syslog and remote logging ?18:07
timelessjahor: fdisk will show it iirc18:07
timelessgan/x-fade: see top of my draft for how i see qgil18:08
GeneralAntillesUser rating doesn't seem to work here. . . .18:08
jahorGeneralAntilles: thanx... i read this couple of days before, but didnt think it could be this issue... before diablo it was stable18:09
GeneralAntillesjahor, it may have become corrupted since then.18:09
GeneralAntillesBut that's probably the leading cause of system-wide instability.18:10
X-Fadetimeless: I see the same. Although the icon works for me. (It is the memcached problem that acts up there)18:10
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jahorGeneralAntilles: thanx alot, i will try to check it18:10
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timelessso now w/ lots of effort, i can find out who's been burrying my stuff :)18:12
GeneralAntillesTrack them down and thumb them? :P18:13
GeneralAntillesI guess the itT profile link wants a URL. :D18:14
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lardmanhmm, some cool Android apps out there (
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qwerty12Lots of these apps won't work on the android that's on itt.18:20
lardmanI was just thinking in general18:20
qwerty12Ah, soz18:20
lardmantho I'll try your package later on :)18:20
qwerty12Framebuffer is set to automatic by default in that kernel, don't know if it will mess with any of your work :)18:21
lardmanI'm not doing much fb work atm, waiting to see what ssvb comes up with18:21
* qwerty12 clones my kernel tree and starts to make seperate kernels for N800 and N81018:21
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* Stskeeps boots up his n800 after a week away from it for more debian/ubuntu tablet hacking.18:24
lardmanqwerty12: why do some apps not run?18:25
qwerty12It's an old version of the userspace/sdk, the latest runs much more slower, so I'm sticking with the old :)18:25
lardmanis it emulated then?18:26
qwerty12Nah, it runs directly on the device18:26
gpd[offtopic: navman / garmin / tomtom - obvious choice?]18:26
GeneralAntillesgpd, I really like the Nüvis18:26
GeneralAntillesBut don't have any experience with navman18:26
qwerty12It uses a loop file system, I ditched it and ran it off a real ext2 partition and the speed was much better.18:26
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GeneralAntillesand only a little experience with older TomToms.18:27
gpd[obviously I have an N800 + maemomapper - but this is for a parent]18:27
* GeneralAntilles is really bored with having to login all the time at maemo.org18:27
lardmanqwerty12: some really cool ideas for applications in that doc, it's amazing what $25k will do to motivate people :)18:27
lardmanGeneralAntilles: Have FF remember for you18:28
GeneralAntillesgpd, might be worthwhile to drop by Best Buy or something and try them out.18:28
lardmanGeneralAntilles: that way, when you change computer, you can't remember your password :)18:28
GeneralAntilleslardman, remembering the information isn't the problem.18:28
qwerty12lardman, yeah, $25k is great amount though :)18:28
gpdGeneralAntilles: yah - will do - just wondering if there was an obvious choice: eg. TomTom = evil or something18:28
GeneralAntillesHaving to click "Login" and wait 30 seconds-1 minute is the problem.18:28
GeneralAntillesOn every damn page.18:28
lardmanqwerty12: some of the location based services are really quite cool18:29
lardmanqwerty12: map mash-ups or whatever they're called18:29
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lardmanqwerty12: the Yanks seem to have a thing about disasters I see :)18:29
qwerty12Hehe, CA is on a plate boundary. We aren't but we have to suffer with dodgy weather :P18:30
* lardman wonders if Yank is seen as rude by any Americans?18:30
* qwerty12 should have packed a coat, the rain has given me a headache18:30
GeneralAntilleslol . . . rasta Maemo
lardmanSun's out here for the next 3min at least :p18:30
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texellardman: eh. It's mildly rude.18:30
GeneralAntilleslardman, well, "Yanks" are northerners over here. ;)18:31
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texelAbout as rude as saying "Oh. It's you." in Japanese. =op18:31
lardmantexel: my apologies then18:31
timelessyeah, it depends, i wouldn't assume it meant americans18:31
texelIt's no biggie, though. =op18:31
lardmanGeneralAntilles: what are you Southerners called then?18:31
timelessi'd assume it meant the baseball team18:31
qwerty12I'm guessing Dirty South18:31
GeneralAntillesDepends on the company. ;)18:31
texelYeah, I suppose someone from the deep south could take offense to that.18:32
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GeneralAntillesI haven't spent a lot of time up north, though.18:32
texelBut the chances of them being in IRC, talking about Nxxx's is rather... remote. =op18:32
timelessis 'texans' a bad answer? :)18:32
GeneralAntillesSoutherners generally think of them selves as "Southerners"18:32
GeneralAntillestimeless, yes.18:32
GeneralAntillesTexas != the South18:32
texelTexas == Midwest.18:32
texelSouth Carolina == South18:33
texelVirginia == South.18:33
texelThat area. =op18:33
timelessMaryland == South18:33
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Thumbs on users fixed.18:33
derf_Parts_ of Virginia == South.18:33
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derfAnd no part of Maryland is the South anymore.18:34
qwerty12ATL = South (aka the reference to Dirty South - Always hear it in American RnB :))18:34
timelessderf: historically it was South of the Mason Dixon line18:34
timelessthe only line that ever really mattered :(18:34
derftimeless: Sure. But there are currently no Southerners there.18:34
texelHm. I think derf's referring to "South" in a cultural way.18:34
lardmanWere the south the confederates?18:34
qwerty12Some countries18:34
lbtI thought anything south of Watford wus suveners....18:34
timelessderf: if you go into the other counties (away from DC, Baltimore), i think you can find plantations and things18:35
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texelqwerty12: s/countries/states/ ?18:35
timelessbut yes, in general, it isn't really "south" these days18:35
qwerty12texel, yes, doh18:35
texelThough back during the civil war they might have considered those regions "countries"18:35
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timelesslardman: technically no18:35
texelSince they claimed to have seceeded.18:35
timelessSouth was Mason Dixon line18:35
qwerty12(me isn't used to states, unless you count Ireland and Wales & Scotland in some sort of way :P)18:35
timelessand mostly meant whether slavery was accepted or not18:35
timelessthe interesting bit of trivia there is that the last state to free slaves was MD18:36
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timelessbecause Lincoln freed the slaves in the secessionist states first18:36
timelessit's a neat trick, freeing slaves in states you don't control :)18:37
texelqwerty12: heh -- I can understand that. Though /techinically/ the way the EU and the US are organized, the terms /could/ be used interchangably.18:37
timelessbut that didn't apply to MD, because it remained in the union18:37
timelessso slaves there had to wait for the war to end18:37
texelIn reality, each state is essentially it's own "country" that has agreed to accept oversight of a federal government.18:37
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qwerty12any states with legalised weed?18:38
GeneralAntilleslol . . .18:38
texelqwerty12: only one I know of, and that's only for medicinal purposes. =op18:38
GeneralAntillesqwerty12 really does have a one-track mind.18:38
qwerty12w00t, here I come :P18:38
texelqwerty12: got glaucoma? =op18:38
qwerty12I have now!18:38
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* texel falls over18:38
* timeless shrugs18:39
timelesstechnically Countries can be termed "States"18:39
texelGood find, GeneralAntilles18:39
timelessthe "State of Israel"18:39
texelThat's what I meant. =o)18:39
Proteousthe "State of confusion"18:39
Proteousthat is where I live18:39
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, ta, I think I'm in love ^-^18:40
qwerty12(with the weed states that is)18:40
texelThe term "state" was used instead of "country" because the idea was the whole main contenent was supposed to be the "country" in a different sense. =op18:40
timelesswow, i didn't realize how many states were in there18:40
texelmanifest destiny and all that. =op18:40
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texelWow. DIdn't realize NY was legalized.18:40
tank-manfor midicinal uses18:41
tank-manmeans shit to normal people18:41
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texelWell, it means quite a bit to those who have glaucoma. =op18:41
* qwerty12 puts my hands up18:41
qwerty12or rather his :/18:42
texelPersonally, the "war on drugs" is such a waste of time. =o(18:42
texelAnd money. =o(18:42
texelAnd D.A.R.E. is a freaking joke. =op18:42
GeneralAntillesOne of the more impressive scams perpetrated on the American public.18:42
texelGeneralAntilles: ahh. You mean like Social Security? =op18:43
GeneralAntillesThat too. ;)18:43
RaytrayGlobal warming?18:43
GeneralAntillesI blame that on Raytray.18:43
qwerty12I blame that on the cows with their methane.18:43
GeneralAntilles'tis true.18:44
GeneralAntillesCows are a huge source of "greenhouse" gases.18:44
texelFunny how /nobody/ /ever/ reports how much methane those things dump into the atmosphere.18:44
texelInstead they focus on cars.18:44
GeneralAntillesSteak is just too damn tasty.18:45
texelThat's what vat grown beef is for!18:45
texel"OMG! It's made of vat grown beef!"18:45
texelSoylent Green is Beef!18:45
* GeneralAntilles would be interested to see that, actually.18:45
Proteousfarms are actualy starting to harvest the methane now18:45
Proteousheat your house with cow farts!18:45
GeneralAntillesPig shit pools are a good source of methane.18:45
* texel falls over laughing at Proteous' comment18:46
texelProteous: I wish the cow farms out here in would learn to do so.18:46
texelWhen I lived in Chandler, you'd end up smelling it for /miles/ away. =o(18:46
* timeless thought pigs were worse than cows18:46
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texelThat being said, the conditions they're kept in out here is terrible.18:47
* timeless sighs18:47
timelessgarage is *slow*18:47 is slow18:47
timelessgan: isn't too bad :)18:48
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texelPOWDER might be good for porting to the Nxxx18:49
GeneralAntillesmxr's frontpage needs rebranding for Maemo.18:49
timelessnew brand?18:50
qwerty12Ok, I'm renabling manual update of the framebuffer, is all I need to do is set CONFIG_FB_OMAP_MANUAL_UPDATE to y?18:50
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timelessyou mean the gray background?18:50
GeneralAntillesMostly the links to mozilla's CVS. ;)18:50
timelesscute... the bottom of that page makes no sense18:51
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timelessoh, i should get a bugzilla component :)18:52
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timelessum, where does a normal user find promoter?18:55
lardmanqwerty12: no idea18:55
Jaffa more specifically18:56
qwerty12lardman, thanks, I just grabbed a stock 2420_config, told me what I needed to know :)18:56
pH5Jaffa: sorry for dropping the -i switch dpkg-buildpackage from the wiki, I was overreacting :)18:59
timelessbtw, is News = planet?18:59
lardmanjohnx: not sure whether you'll see this, but I'm wondering if the bluez sbc encoder does variable bitpool values19:00
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asedenoCatching up on the weekend's traffic: I had the same problem with BT Dun that other people are reporting.19:01
texelHm. Actually, this might be a better time to ask the same question I had last night.19:01
texelIs it okay for an extras package to depend on another package in extras?19:01
asedenoI fixed the DUN problem by clearing my username, though I can't explain why that'd work.19:01
lardmantexel: yes19:01
texelOkay, that makes porting kanatest MUCH simpler.19:02
texelThanks. =o)19:02
lardmanotherwise you'd have to statically link, or provide all the extra libs in your package19:02
* texel nods19:02
texelI kinda figured, but I wanted to be sure.19:02
lardmanwhich would be *bad* :)19:02
lardmanyeah, go for it19:02
texelI wasn't aware the installer was fixed to install dependencies properly.19:02
qwerty12And break a lot of other packages :)19:02
* texel nods19:02
lardmantexel: How so, seems to work?19:03
texelNow to reinstall scratchbox and the sdk... =op19:03
texellardman: a few times in the past on older builds (say around OS2007) I had issues trying to install debs that had dependencies with the installer.19:03
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qwerty12texel, automatic dependency resolving only works on packages being installed from a repo already :)19:04
lardmantexel: I think there are issues sometimes if you try to update a package, and the OS depends on that exact version19:04
timelessGeneralAntilles: reload?19:05
texelDo we still have a "deb packaging for maemo maintainers" doc laying around somewhere?19:06
GeneralAntillesmaemo -> Maemo19:06
GeneralAntillesDelete the non-link "IT OS 2008"19:06
GeneralAntillesand "IT OS 2008" -> "OS2008"19:06
qwerty12~lart for being slow. ain't slow like is.19:07
* infobot cats /dev/urandom into's ear for being slow. ain't slow like is.19:07
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qwerty12texel, anywayz,
timelessdougt:, :)19:07
qwerty12jott, you around?19:10
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keesjdarius++ for thinking I am right as always :p19:34
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dougttimeless: what version of gcc are you using when building the maemo browser?19:34
dougttimeless: gcc version 3.4.4 (release) (CodeSourcery ARM 2005q3-2) ?19:34
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GreyFoxxyay, my n810 is on the truck for delivery today.... time to setup a development environment for it19:35
GeneralAntilleskeesj, new Darius creeps me out.19:36
GeneralAntillesCptnodegard, nice price.19:36
timelesssounds about right19:37
* qwerty12 would buy a wii controller just to use it on N80019:37
GeneralAntillesYes you should.19:37
timelesssays "yes" :)19:37
timelesserr, make that :)19:38
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dougttimeless: any patches on that?19:38
timelesson top of code sourcery? no19:39
timelessis it pure gcc3.4.4? dunno, probably not :)19:39
dougtwe are using gcc version 3.4.4 (release) (CodeSourcery ARM 2005q3-2) (same thing, i think)19:39
timelessyou can grab the deb source just like it did :)19:39
dougtand are seeing random crashes.19:39
dougtwhen we build as non-opt, the problems go away.19:39
timelessum, yes19:39
dougtyeah, i know.19:40
timelessi think we aren't building heavy opt :)19:40
timelessi wouldn't recommend it19:40
timelessfrom memory, the locking instructions for the platform aren't actually threadsafe19:40
timelessamong other spiffy features19:40
dougtare you just setting the global opt flag to -01 or something?19:40
timelessquite likely19:40
dougttimeless: that is a selling feature if you ask me.19:40
timelessyour best served by running a build of ours and checking19:41
timelessdougt: lame platforms?19:41
dougttimeless: yup.  or stealing your build settings and seeing of our problems go away.19:41
timelessyou mean like our wonderful lack of hardware accel?19:41
dougttimeless: ship it!19:41
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timelesshey, we did!19:41
dougthonestly, if I get an IR port on the thing, it will be the most awesome device in my house.19:42
dougti really want to be able to control my tv from it .19:42
timelessdougt: personally, i prefer the feature where the factory decided to format the n810's internal mmc beyond their physical capacity :)19:42
timelessdougt: yeah, i'd love that19:42
dougti would even write a protocol handler so that tvguide could change my tv's channels.  :-)19:42
timelessmy cable box stopped listening to the remote a few weeks ago19:42
timelessotoh, it doesn't matter now, today it won't boot properly19:42
GeneralAntillesdougt, irreco?19:43
dougtGeneralAntilles: get a rfc started!19:43
lbtdougt: mythemoter19:43
dougtprobably want to make it not know about the "ir" bits.19:43
lbtcontrols my TV just fine... :)19:43
* timeless frowns19:43
timelessok, so... now i'm really confused19:44
GeneralAntillesor HAVA if you want streaming, too.19:44
dougtanyhow, we are out in the sticks...19:44
timelessthe cvs log link in seems to work19:44
timelessbut the one here:
dougttimeless: can you point me at your moz config.19:44
timelessseems to be broken19:44
timelessbut you'd definitely want to check the control file19:44
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dougtwhat does the control file do?19:45
timelesshack the planet :(19:45
timelesserr, not control. "rules"19:45
timeless256 ifeq (,$(findstring $(DEB_HOST_ARCH),arm armel))19:45
timeless257         optimize_add += -O119:45
timelessis an interesting gem19:45
timelessfiguring out what a rules file actually does is rocket science19:46
timelessdougt: i think reading about:buildconfig is probably easier :)19:47
timelessi suspect most of the answers you need are embedded there :)19:47
dougtyeah, but we do fun stuff like change opt flags of specific modules, right?19:47
timelessnot that often19:47
timelessbut yes19:47
dougtjs, xpcom/io19:47
timelessxpcom/io ??19:47
dougti think so/19:47
timelessdoesn't look like it19:48
timelessreflect perhaps19:48
dougtmac only.19:48
dougtyeah, we do.19:48
JaffapH5: no probs :)19:49
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timelessthat's new19:49
dougtnice bandaide.19:49
timeless ?19:50
timelessanyway, we don't have that code19:51
dougtwe == maemo19:52
timelessat least, not in diablo19:52
dougtso, using gcc-3.4-3.4.4cs2005q3.2 w/ full optimizations is probably not a great idea.19:53
* timeless rotfl19:53
dougtpoint taken.19:53
* timeless passes dougt a hand-grenade minus the pin19:53
timelessthat's safer19:53
dougthave you messed around with 4.2?19:53
timelessthere are plans to change toolchains19:53
Veggenhmmf. Today, my position in maemo mapper was *way* off. Like, 100s of meters. How to debug that?19:53
lcuk_outive just been called stupid and off my rocker for giving away a marketable product :(19:54
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Veggenlcuk: There's people who absolutely does not get free software/open source.19:55
lcuk_outbut there is nothing better than gaining a name and recognition for something - so fuck the neigh sayers :D its all worth it and i enjoyed/am enjoying doing it19:55
Veggenlcuk: If you can't explain it to them, just ignore them.19:55
lcuk_outeven if i did feel like that its a bit late now ;) i cant rollback svn ;)19:55
lcuk_outi couwell at the summi19:56
lcuk_outoh crap19:56
Veggenlcuk: you can always fork your own closed source version (if you do own all the code yourself, that iz) :)19:56
lcuk_outdamn paste19:56
Stskeepslcuk_out: set up a donation paypal :P19:56
Stskeepsit does actually occasionally give cash for oss projects19:56
GeneralAntillesSome people just don't understand open source.19:56
lcuk_outdonation wouldnt help me do what i enjoy doing fulltime :) and i know there arent enough of me to do it all19:56
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lcuk_outhell, theres barely enough of me after work/home/misc to do any of this as it is19:57
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VeggenThere's also a bunch of people that hate open source because it takes the market from closed source. At the same time as they're dismissing the possibility that people can make something large/advanced enough in open source.19:59
lcukstskeeps, i started working on liqbase to solve problems with this device, and i've used it as a way to re-learn c.  if anyone else can use what ive written (and will continue to write) then excellent19:59
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lcukveggen, they are also mainly the same people who will copy ms office rather than try to make use of oo.org20:00
Veggenlcuk: true.20:01
qwerty12lcuk, just out of question, wtf has it to do with your employer (I don't know anything about licensing, so sorry if this sounds n00b)?20:01
Stskeepslcuk: heck, i learnt C through running a OSS project when i was 15.. my code still does reveal some of that though :>20:01
lcukwell i spend all day *not* doing anything on liqbase20:01
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Veggenlcuk: and photoshop rather than gimp (or similar)20:01
GeneralAntillesWell, there's justification for that one. :P20:02
GeneralAntillesGimp isn't quite up-to-snuff.20:02
lcukno there isnt GeneralAntilles20:02
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lcukget involved and help explain where its wrong and how it can be fixed20:02
VeggenGA: sure. But many of the people using Photoshop are just to cheap to actually pay for it, they feel they have a right to steal it.20:02
lcukor buy it20:02
GeneralAntillesOh, well that.20:02
GeneralAntillesI'm not talking about that.20:02
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lcuki have no problem with people who want to buy commercial software (open or closed) you pay to have someone else worry about it20:03
GeneralAntillesAnyway, get back to me when Gimp has native OS X widgets.20:03
lcukits like maps20:03
Veggen(sorry - copy it. I just do not buy the notion that copyright infringment == theft. It's still wrong/illegal, but it's not really theft)20:03
Mouseyi seriously don't get how people can still think "software" is realistically supposed to be a "business" when there's no such thing as scarcity of goods, and every consumer is also a producer20:04
Mouseynow that general computing is ubiquitous, software "scarcity" is just an absurdity20:05
lcukyou pay for the management of the product and technical assistance - thats the same whether its microsoft or mysql20:05
Veggenlcuk: And really, it's the same whether the product is closed source or open source.20:05
lcukmost users couldnt care less whether theres source there, thye just know a program does whatever20:05
lcukagreed veggen :)20:06
Mouseythat's another thing i don't get.. why pay for crappy support when the public support is so much better?20:06
lcuktime and energy20:06
StskeepsMousey: many OSS projects suffer from grumpy supporter syndrome though20:06
Stskeepsand communities20:07
lcuk"ive got xyz wrong with my widget" and people WILL help you.  in a public forum, all bets are off and if people dont want to answer they wont20:07
MouseyStskeeps, maybe, but increasingly its user communities which provide better support than corporate support organizations.. i know I get better support from this one channel than i'd ever get calling nokia20:07
lcukstarting in irc with "I'll give $50 to the first person who correctly helps me with..........." would probably get the same response as phoning the microsoft $50 per hour helpline20:08
Mouseythe same just proved to be true for my mail server too, #cyrus helped me figure out sieve scripting20:08
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Mouseyhaha, phoning microsoft gets you hold music and "we don't have that problem here, reinstall"20:08
lcukmousey, but there is a difference here between hardware and software20:08
Mousey#cyrus is software!20:09
Mousey#maemo is software!20:09
* lcuk wonders how hes meant to tell what every single word means in every single context20:09
Mouseyoh don't cop out on us now. this is one of my favorite topics! ^_^20:09
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lcukbut i bet lots of people have returned their nokia because you need special ninja skills to come in here and ask for help20:10
lcukor the forums havelet them down20:10
Mouseythere are also forums20:10
Mouseynot everyone uses IRC, that's true20:10
Mouseybut there are plenty of cases where calling support has let people down too20:10
lcukand if you call nokia with a problem what would they do20:10
lcukhas anyone actually tried it20:10
Mouseyi'd love to call nokia with a problem booting from my SD card20:11
Mouseythat would be awesome20:11
lcukdo they support the nokia sponsored products?  remember we get a warning if we try to install something unsigned20:11
Mouseyi doubt fanoush is gonna answer the phone20:11
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lcuk"hi nokia, my built in mediaplayer is borked it wont play my pron20:11
GeneralAntilleslcuk, google. :P20:12
Mouseythat's my POINT. what's the point of calling support when 9 times outta 10 your problem is "outside their scope"20:12
lcukmy bet is you would end up at someone technical enough to support you20:12
Mouseyi'll take that bet ^_^20:12
MouseyGeneralAntilles: no fair answering the phone =P20:13
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lcukgo for it, record it ans see - it would be genuinely interesting to see20:13
lcukperhaps you will get a direct connection to quim20:13
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GeneralAntillesEr, google for lcuk's context question.20:14
lcukmousey, make sure you do have a problem first though and you havent jumped out of default hoops20:14
Mouseywell it's way too late for that20:14
Mouseyi hang out in here, odds are pretty slim my joint's even under warranty anymore ;)20:15
lcukGeneralAntilles, yer, its a #maemo log20:15
GeneralAntillesSomething really needs to be done about card corruption with Maemo20:16
GeneralAntillesCorruption on the internal card can completely bring the system down.20:16
GeneralAntillesand the user has no way of guessing that that might be the problem.20:16
lcuki agree, is there a 1 click fix?20:16
Mouseythat's why i switched to ext3 internally =)20:17
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lcukext3 is a cpuhog20:17
qwerty12Is that a N810 only thing or affects all OS2008?20:17
GeneralAntillesAll of OS200820:17
lcukn810 only, its MMC2 built in 2gb card20:17
GeneralAntillesOS2007, too.20:17
Mouseyso what, i'll pay in cycles for FS robustness20:17
GeneralAntilleslcuk, an N800 with a corrupt internal card will have the same issues.20:17
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nomisis that the wrong-partition-table corruption problem?20:17
GeneralAntillesN800s just don't ship with corrupt internal card.20:17
lcukbut the 810 came out of the factory pre-corrupted20:17
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qwerty12A quick guess would be that it's the many default processes that access MMC (metalayer e.g.), ke-recv or somthing in the kernel :/20:18
GeneralAntillesnomis, well, that issue is specific to the N810 and will eventually cause corruption which will lead to these symptoms20:18
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lcuksince other cards are preformatted i dont see how its an os200x problem20:18
GeneralAntillesbut the issue is that a corrupt internal card (N800 or N810) will bring your system to its knees.20:18
GeneralAntilleslcuk, listen to what I'm saying. :P20:18
* Mousey recommends ship with ext3 and add fsck to the boot process20:18
* Mousey panics!20:19
lcuki am, my card is corrupted NOW  i just havent reached the broken part20:19
GeneralAntillesMousey, then what do Windows users do when they want to mount their cards on their computer?20:19
qwerty12Mousey, Maybe when all the buyers of the N8*0's use Linux as main os20:19
Mouseywhat's a Windows user?20:19
GeneralAntillesExt* is not a valid solution20:19
lcuki can view Ext* on my windows computer20:19
* nomis fixed his partition table before the system went down for the first time...20:19
lcuknomis, is it a hard job and would i as a crap user manage it ?20:20
lcukno, my mmc1 is extwhatever and i use it daily from windows20:20
ShadowJKhm, I inserted an unformatted card into my N810 and it said it was corrupt, then I formatted it with N810 and it worked fine?20:20
lcuki couldnt use it if i plugged via usb though20:20
nomislcuk: well, I fixed it using fdisk on a Linux box, not sure if that counts as "easy"20:20
Mouseybesides, can't ship an ext3 windows/mac driver? it's an open standard, and it doesn't cost license fees, should already have implementations for Mac and Win. seems like a no brainer20:20
lcuknomis, no its not...20:21
GeneralAntillesCard corruption will also make Application manager stop working.20:21
* lcuk waits for maemo summit for technical assistance ;)20:21
qwerty12That one could be avoided with better handling in the application manager, for now, you have to use red pill mode and untick the use mmc option.20:21
GeneralAntillesMousey, talk to Apple and Microsoft.20:21
GeneralAntillesCommunity support for ext* on both sucks.20:22
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GeneralAntillesBasically, the issue is that Maemo really doesn't know how to handle card corruption20:22
qwerty12I'd have thought ext support in Macs would be good?20:22
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GeneralAntillesand it accounts for a SIGNIFICANT portion of user-reported difficulties.20:22
lcukyer, i would have expected macs to be almost plug and play compat, cant it just slot into the mach kernel?20:22
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, the ext2 driver is from 200520:22
GeneralAntillesand it's slow as hell.20:23
ShadowJKas a new user of N810 I find it pretty difficult to actually find information... I'm sure it's there somewhere on, maybe, but I haven't figured out how to navigate it :-)20:23
qwerty12Ouch >.<20:23
GeneralAntillesThere's no reason why support isn't good20:23
GeneralAntillesJust nobody has picked it up.20:23
Mouseywhy bother contacting apple and microsoft for open drivers that already exists?20:23
Mouseymaybe they don't exist???20:23
GeneralAntillesEither way20:23
Mouseynevermind, clearly i'm a dumbass20:23
GeneralAntillesExpecting somebody to install filesystem drivers to mount their card is stupid.20:23
GeneralAntillesThat's not something Nokia could ship.20:24
lcukthat happens now20:24
Mouseythat totally happens now20:24
lcukplugging in usb memory sticks on lots of systems needs drivers20:24
GeneralAntillesThe ONLY universal filesystem is FAT.20:24
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Mouseyever hear of NDAS?20:24
MouseyNDAS is a NAS filesystem that a driver needs installing for20:25
lcukNorth Devon Archaeological Society20:25
Mouseyships with a lot of external NAS boxes20:25
Mouseyvideo cards all need drivers, sound cards too20:25
lcukmousey, i doubt most common folk come into contact with that ;)20:25
lcukbut practically everyone knows what a usb memory stick is and that it might need drivers20:25
Mouseyit seems absurd that filesystem drivers need to be universal, but other peripherals don't20:26
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Mouseywifi cards too20:26
Mouseya universal printer driver would be nice20:26
ShadowJKpostscript? ;)20:26
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MouseyShadowJK: touche20:26
Mouseytell it to my deskjet 870 tho ;)20:27
GeneralAntillesAnyway, installing drivers isn't a valid solution.20:27
GeneralAntillesTechnically feasible20:27
GeneralAntillesbut not acceptable to Nokia.20:27
Mouseyi get it, i really do.20:28
ShadowJKnokia's pc suite doesn't install any drivers? ;p20:28
MouseyAND i'll even shut up about it20:28
Mouseybut, it's still absurd not to consider20:28
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ShadowJKAnyone else noticed that "Nokia music store for N-series" (or something like that) doesn't work on N810? ;p20:29
* GeneralAntilles needs to file a bug.20:29
ShadowJKiirc, it tells me to use my PC and internet explorer instead20:30
* ShadowJK doesn't have that :p20:30
GeneralAntillesHrm, what does that go under?20:30
Mouseywhat's internet explorer?20:30
hellwolfHow the mtdblocks partition specified in the N800,  hard coded, kernel command line, or a special partition table?20:30
GeneralAntillesFile system?20:30
qwerty12hellwolf, kernel, also config partition for bootloader contains partition tablet20:31
qwerty12that partition table was updated for diablo release20:31
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lcukhellwolf, what were you before you became a hellwolf?  a badwolf?20:33
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hellwolflcuk, the world is not like that please, badguy never goes hell20:34
hellwolfqwerty12_N800, thank you, then I found that in flasher application I can change the location of the partition, why's that possible, if it's specified in the kernel20:35
hellwolflcuk, I was good :D20:35
keesjthe new profile pages show what posts you love and hate ...20:36
qwerty12_N800hellwolf, it may not be in kernel, but i did see a lot relating to it in the kernel. do you mean change the root/partition it boots from in flasher?20:36
qwerty12_N800(it's for sure in config partition though)20:37
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hellwolfI don't know, I see the options : --fiasco, -F <arg> --kernel, -k <arg>, ...20:37
hellwolfLocation of a FIASCO image20:37
hellwolfLocation of kernel image20:37
GeneralAntilleskeesj, time to be less arbitrary with your thumbing. :P20:37
||cwhellwolf: isn't that refering to the local path of the image?20:38
||cwlike, what image to upload?20:38
hellwolf||cw, ah.. should be :D20:38
hellwolfqwerty12_N800, but you said diablo change the location, how could flasher be aware of that then20:39
qwerty12_N800re setting root device to boot from in flasher, the partition table still isn't modified but i'm too tired to explain what does20:39
hellwolfpartition table?20:40
hellwolfit exists?20:40
qwerty12_N800yes, in config partition/cal20:40
lcukyes, there are partition chairs as well20:40
hellwolfwhat about coffee machine20:40
lcuknow you are pushing it20:41
* qwerty12_N800 wants liberal coffee machine20:41
Maximanderanyone know how i'd go about installing phpgtk on an n810?20:41
qwerty12_N800lcuk, tea fan? how british (in posh voice)20:41
* lcuk wants a social coffee machine20:41
* lbt has a coffee machine20:42
||cwMaximander: same as anything else, setup the sdk and compile it20:42
lcuknot at all my good chap, i drink the finest roasted coffee beans asda will sell20:42
* lbt invites everyone round for a non-political cup of coffee20:43
MaximanderI have scratchbox setup, but I'm not sure how to deal with deps20:43
* lcuk puts on his bowler hat and picks up his Times newspaper and trundles to the trainstation20:43
lcukbe there in a jiffy lbt20:43
* lbt thinks he's on Blue Mountain beans today...20:43
lcukall this talk of coffee reminds me of a pet peeve of my missus20:44
* qwerty12_N800 doesn't drink tea or coffee :)20:44
lcukshe wont play scrabble with me any more :(20:44
lcuki keep winning the game by doing triple word java20:44
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qwerty12_N800 <--- qwerty likes.20:45
lcukkde in a window?20:45
* qwerty12_N800 likes how hildon is still running20:46
lcukyer, that seems like a nice compromise20:46
Stskeepskde4? intruiging20:46
Maximanderso, for installing packages in my build env to meet deps, can I just do sb2 --emulate apt-get install php-cli ?20:47
* lcuk pulls out a pipe and after scraping about with it ignites a barrel, kicks off his shoes and waits for his slippers to be brought to him20:48
qwerty12_N800how did you do all that while typing?20:48
* lcuk inhales deeply before sending a tux shaped ring billowing across the room20:48
lcuki hired a temp today20:49
hellwolfThere must be a live WWE here20:49
lcukshes quite good, called donna noble20:49
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lcukreal teatime anyway, back in a bit20:50
* qwerty12_N800 's waiting for pizza from local takeaway20:51
lardmanwhat was the job description: "must know svn, how to light a pipe and how to bring slippers"?20:51
* lardman is waiting for pizza from local oven :)20:51
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qwerty12_N800lardman, trying to replace the temp ?20:51
lardmannah, I'm not blonde20:52
lardmanactually, she may not be either, we'll have to ask20:52
lardmanI'm not good with slippers either :p20:52
* qwerty12_N800 needs to get a new pair, mine ripped and i'm walking barefoot round the house :/20:53
* lardman always walks barefoot, can't stand slippers20:54
hellwolftake care of your stylus20:54
lardmandrawing pins are the real problem20:54
qwerty12_N800ouch , for me, the dodgy carpet on the stairs :/20:55
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qwerty12_N800using dd on the card's dev block file is probably a faster method of corruption20:57
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800, if you want to add a comment?20:57
qwerty12_N800i'm not entirely sure on it :)20:58
qwerty12_N800my dd syntax knowledge is lacking20:58
qwerty12_N800the stuff that handles mmc mounting is actually open source20:59
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lcuklardman, you are famous:
lcukand no, unfortunately shes not real nor blonde i still have to do it all myself21:10
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Maximandergrrr... for some reason my scratchbox apt isn't working correctly21:17
Maximanderfirst, running check shows hundreds of unmet deps21:17
Maximanderwhereas apt-get check on my 810 is fine21:17
Maximandersecond, I copied over the sources.list(.d/*) and ran apt-get update, but sb apt still can't fine packages that are fine on the 81021:18
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Maximanderany ideas?21:19
Maximander(the packages it can't find are in maemo-hackers chinook main, which coincidentally throws a GPG error during apt-get update21:20
Maximanderbut I assumed that would just mean they'd be unverified)21:20
zapyou could try to clean apt cache (/var/cache/apt) first21:24
Maximanderinside sb2?21:25
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MaximanderI think i got it to work, but now I have a different problem21:26
Maximandersb2 -m emulate apt-get install php5-dev21:27
Maximander/bin/sh: line 1: /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: No such file or directory21:27
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MaximanderI don't get why this is so broken, I just setup my dev env by following the guide21:28
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lardmanlcuk: lol21:31
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Andy80hi all21:43
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GeneralAntillesHey, Jaffa.22:14
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lcukwho has nights where they feel "Meh!"22:22
GeneralAntillesOooh, mee!22:22
lcuklol i guess tongiht isnt one of yours22:22
lcuktheres nothin good on the internet to do (i finished the game i was playing) and im borrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrred22:24
texellcuk: port another program. =o)22:25
lcuki started last week moudling somethin in c++ - it wont be ready till ummmmm probably the summit22:26
lcukbut that doesnt help now ;)22:26
lcukperhaps i need to work on a spell checker for irc22:26
lcukGeneralAntilles, on your mac all text fields are spell checkable by default arent they - does your irc get the love from this feature?22:27
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lcuk~lart steve jobs for having classy ideas22:27
* infobot drops a baby grand on steve jobs for having classy ideas22:27
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qwerty12_N800lcuk, xchat for linux has a spell checker, dunno why it  isn't present on the maemo version.22:31
JaffaLack of libaspell installed?22:31
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lcukthe problem is a bit more dire ;) im running windows when i make the most typos22:32
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Tobarunning windows is the dire situation22:35
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lcuktoba, i dont agree at the moment, windows xp works very well for me and its fast.22:36
GeneralAntillesYou just lack perspective.22:37
lcukno i dont, linux feels "heavy" doing stuff, windows dont respond like i expect.  same situation with the 810, but i had no alternative on 810 than to do something about it ;)22:38
lcuksure, i could have found a window manager that suited, but time investment from xp didnt make it worth it.  it just works and does what i want (on the whole)22:38
GeneralAntillesand your perspective for Linux is, what, vmware?22:38
lcukno, the ubuntu laptop over there ^^^^ and the livecds ive installed in the past22:39
lcukthe laptop was great with xp but ever since i put ubuntu on it hasnt run as smoothly22:40
GeneralAntillesSounds like a configuration issue. . . .22:40
lcukvery likely is gen, you have heard and seen just how crap with it all i am22:40
lbtlcuk: if you're bored:
* lcuk knows his limitations22:41
lcuklol lbt, will it sit pretty with andlinux that ive got on here? *22:41
lcuk*note, i installed it, but it couldnt see the files i wanted easily so its not been used since22:42
lbtprobably :)22:42
lbtbut if you have a spare partition then a native install is best - and Ubuntu without question22:42
lbtsimply 'cos it's nice and the SDK suggests it22:42
lcukhmmm, ive got my old c drive knocking around somewhere (migrated to larger drive, cloned and left the older space..)22:43
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lbthow do you start a chant of "go lcuk" on irc?22:43
qwerty12_N800lcuk, just out of question, if you've got a linux laptop, why not use that instead of andlinux?22:44
lcukcos its slow22:44
lcuki need to buy preinstalled hardware designed for the purpose all nicely configured and ready to go, but i cant afford anything like that22:45
lbtthat's *so* not true  :D22:45
lbtit's all about using odds+sods...22:45
derflbt: Doing so also requires you to be fairly skilled in what you're doing.22:46
derfParticularly with respect to graphics drivers.22:46
lcuki have been using odds and sods for years22:46
lbtif you start the install I'll hang around22:46
lbtand if you have any issues...22:47
derfThe state of graphics drivers in Linux is so abysmal it's very, very easy for a non-expert to get things wrong.22:47
derfIt's the number one complaint I've heard from people who tried to switch to Linux and gave up.22:47
lcukwe are back onto me needing an intern :)22:47
Maximanderaw, come on, it's gotten SOO much better22:47
lbtlcuk: that laptop runs graphics from liveCDs doesn't it22:47
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Maximandermore than half the time, ubuntu just works now days22:47
Maximanderit grabs prop. drivers and all22:47
derfMaximander: "Half the time" is not really a very high bar to clear.22:48
lcukeverything does lbt, but it feels like im running maemo desktop ;)22:48
lbtand if it doesn't - well, you did say you were bored...22:48
||cwderf: that's really only true of ATI drivers22:48
Maximanderand it's alot better on newer hardware22:48
||cwnvidia drivers are a breeze22:48
lbtand I think we can all say with a lot of confidence that you *won't* screw up your windows install22:48
derf||cw: Again, if you know exactly what you're doing, maybe.22:48
lbthey - he has an N800 with irc22:49
Maximandernvidia is easy, intel works out of box (well, except HDMI)22:49
lbtwe're here...22:49
||cwderf: most modern distro's have a package for that enabled by default22:49
lbtwhat more does he need?22:49
lcuknvidia drivers..... ahhh my toshiba laptop decided to install nvidia default to the tv out and forced me to close x, drop to console reinitialize all the x confgi do binary editing on a file reestablish it all and reboot and hope for the best22:49
derfI've had plenty of problems with nVidia drivers myself, but then I do SLI and multiple screens and servers and lots of weird stuff.22:49
||cwintel's newer drivers are nice, can even get compiz going on an 845G22:49
lbtderf: I run nvidia on my 3 myth boxes and dual-screen ati on my 2 desktops :)22:49
Maximandermy desktop (nforce 680 with two 8600GT's SLi) was a piece of cake to setup22:50
lbtalthough my ati is old tech22:50
derflbt: Yes... all these things are _possible_.22:50
Maximanderbooted normally first time, apt-got the nvidia controls and checked the "sli" box22:50
derfThat is not the same thing as being "easy" or "just working".22:50
lcukhere you go22:50
lbtderf: more to the point - we have a range of experience here if he hits snags :)22:50
lcukoh lbt, i know theres a lot of experience here, i see boths sides, being both technical in some aspects and in others22:51
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lcukand not in others^22:51
lbtnah - I just meant that if you go for it then we can help...22:52
Maximandernow as far as other things on linux, there's plenty that's broken (/me is trying to compile phpgtk for chinook, and is on about the 10th ./configure due to fsck'ed deps)22:52
||cwit's been a long time since nvidia drivers didn't "just work"22:52
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lcukthe best thing to ever happen to linux is out of the box experience.  the n8x0 and the eee have done more for linux than anything22:52
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lcukthe best assistance you can give to someone is to help them put the OS they got on their computer when they bought it, its been tested and known working at that point, even if its win3.1 they will have a better experience with that than tryign to use it for something else22:53
Maximanderuh, I'd say the best thing to happen to linux is uptake in the server market, where the alternatives are weak, and having a free option lowers the barriers to entry for web2.0-ish ventures22:54
lcuk*unless you know what you are doing and can cure everything22:54
qwerty12_N800even trying to install win3.11 wfw?22:54
lbtlcuk: yeah - but you're bored22:54
derfMaximander: That happened in 1998.22:54
lcukthats a damned good point, ill just vape the partition22:54
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Maximanderderf: yeah, and it's still the best thing to happen...22:55
lcukMaximander, but noone knows that they are there - my boss tried to tell me linux will never get anywhere - i looked around the room at our router, i pinged our webserver - i connected to get email...22:55
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qwerty12_N800your boss needs to get his  head out of his ass22:56
Maximanderlcuk: yeah, and microsoft's Get the Facts isn't helping, nor is the fact the most schools IT or CS programs are funded my MS to get the FUD into the classroom, but still, we see widespread FOSS adoption, even in govt's22:56
||cwespecially in government22:57
lcukthe guy who bitched at me today about open source was using firefox at the time22:57
Maximandersure, consumer devices that "just work" are great for some awareness, but i think awareness among the geek crowd is more important, as they have to actually make decisions, commit patches, etc22:58
lcukwe dont make decisions22:58
lbtlcuk: so is the partition gone already?22:58
lcukim just deleting the whole contents of the drive now, its in program files at the moment (god i hope this is the correct one...)22:58
VeggenWell. Personally, I hear friends telling me getting tired of doing Windows support for people and installing Linux all the time. So much that I now believe Linux is actually easier than Windows.22:59
VeggenThe problem is for the people who has already learnt to master Windows.22:59
lbtoh, is this a wubi install?22:59
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VeggenBut those that haven't yet, might actually be better off with Linux.22:59
yigalwhat is a good open source VoIP software, I just got an n800 and would like to see if I can migrate to soley using it for making calls23:00
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derfVeggen: Most people don't want to have to "master" their OS.23:00
Veggenderf: sure.23:00
Veggenderf: And for those, Linux is as good as Windows.23:00
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yigalweaklings, I say, jk, well sort of23:01
Veggenderf: They'll rely on friends for all the technical stuff anyhow, and if you as a Linux user are the friend they rely on, then you (and consequently, they) are better off with Linux.23:01
lbtlcuk: b4 we start - what hardware are we talking here - a laptop with a single hdd and a cdrom/dvd? Simple install of XP? or any funnies like it already has a custom bootloader?23:01
Veggenyigal: in Diablo, SIP support is included.23:02
lcukWTF - securom has evil undeletable files23:02
lcuklbt, desktop with nvidia mobo + amb chip + nvidia gfx, its stable in most livecds (just sluggish)23:03
lcukmulti hard drive23:03
lbtis one going to be used for ubuntu?23:03
lbt'cos there is no need to erase it23:03
lcukone partition yer23:03
lbtand you know which partition?23:03
lcuki just need to be sure first that23:03
lcukyer, before doing anything i cleanup :) a tidy home and all that23:04
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VeggenSince I got Garmin mapsource to run under wine, I got rid of every last windows dependence at home, btw.23:05
lcukit will work, i dont doubt it23:05
VeggenHave no need for it. For anything.23:05
yigalVeggen: excuse me I should ask then open source SIP/VoIP clients, is this more precise/accurate a question23:05
lbtVeggen: cool :)23:05
yigalVeggen: congratulations23:06
lbtTwinkle is OSS SIP client.23:06
lbtruns against asterisk23:06
Veggenyigal: trust me, for people that's bought their share of things they just want to work with their computer and discover that the administrative software is windows-only, that *is* quite a big thing.23:07
lbt(I just bought a Digium card for £10 - so SIP/lanline soon :) )23:07
lbtVeggen: I was expecting the N800 flasher to need windows...23:07
lbtoh wait...23:07
Veggenyigal: And there's actually quite a few of us that's primarily Linux users for quite some time, but have this *one* thing we need that Windows install for.23:08
yigallbt: sounds good, Twinkle then it is23:08
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yigalVeggen: yes, I know23:08
lbtcool - keep me informed - I'd love to see that on the N80023:08
Veggenlbt: I went for a VOIP-provider that provides me with a iax2 connection.23:08
lbtI went ukfsn.org23:08
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lbtand FWD (free world dialup)23:09
yigalVeggen: I have a blackberry, I wish I didn't and I can't do an OS upgrade without windows, just terrible23:09
qwerty12_N800does the latest released mplayer support alsa?23:09
lbtbut, tbh, I've never really spent time getting it going23:09
lbtqwerty12_N800: for about 3 years+23:09
lbtor do you mean on the NIT?23:10
qwerty12_N800no, i mean the maemo port, i've been hearing that the latest breaks a2dp etc. just not sure23:10
qwerty12_N800yes, sorry for not being clear23:10
lcuklbt, wubi by default creates an xGB image file doesnt it (like vmware)23:10
lbtyes - but we won't be using wubi23:11
lbtnot if you have a partition23:11
qwerty12_N800if  it does, i'll have to load up the scratchbox :/23:11
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yigalVeggen: but now with the n800 and wifi connection I may not have to deal with it, or T-mobile my provider for much longer23:11
lcuklbt :) one step at a time, if im happy with this install ill vape and build as a partition - im not gonna risk it crashing down around me and ive got 60gb free and available now i deleted it all23:12
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lbtif you have a blank partition then you're making life much harder by not just using it...23:13
lbtif it's not blank though23:14
lbtthen fair enough23:14
lcukit wasnt blank when i started but its nice and clean now23:14
lbtthen just do a partition install23:14
lcukbut i dont wanna rock the boat with partition tables and bootstraps23:14
lbtyou already will23:15
lbtyou won't change the part table23:15
lbtwhat bootloader are you using?23:15
lbtXP std23:15
lcukok, ill cancel this and find my dvd23:15
lcukummmmm yeah23:15
lcuki think anyway23:16
lbtwhat we'll do is install linux to p223:16
lbtinstall grub (bootloader) to p223:16
lbtand chainload from the XP bootloader23:16
lcukno, p123:16
lbtI was guessing :)23:16
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Atariilcuk save me23:17
Atariiwhat repository is it i need?23:17
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lcukhd0_ide0[ [60gb blank] , [131gb data] ]     hd1_ide1[ [250gb data] ]     hd2_ata0[  [200gb system] ]23:18
lcuktell me how i list my repos and ill give it you23:18
lcuk     chinook      free non-free23:20
lcuki think lemme check23:20
lbtb4 you leave windows - edit your boot.ini23:21
Atariihmm, i have that one lcuk23:21
Atariiin fact i installed a few dev/buildmake packages, but the make command complained of a missing "build" file23:22
lcukapt-cache search gcc displays what23:22
lcukdoes gcc work?23:22
lcukit all depends on what your makefile needs to do the job23:24
lcukim not able to build everything, but compiling and linking and using dev libraries works well23:24
MoRpHeUzanybody put pulseaudio to work on the platform ?23:24
lcukie: i tried to build git on my 810 - it got partway through but then failed needing perl23:25
Atariiok, well ive got a fresh OS atm, so need to reinstall the stuff23:25
texelGreh. And I was thinking about porting git to the NITs, too. =o23:25
texelIf it needs perl, that's going to suck.23:25
lbttexel: and here's one I prepared earlier...23:26
lcukno, git build needed perl - the stuff i do doesnt so it works well23:26
lcuki dont know what else might be required for other things23:26
* lcuk waves his magic wand23:26
GeneralAntillesEr, perl is bundled. . . .23:26
lbt"Eh?" eh?23:27
texelHm. Looks like a minimal perl install, though.23:27
texelIe: perldb is missing.23:27
lcukok, sorry perl failed with lots of perl errors23:27
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lbtGeneralAntilles: the git build uses perl (and other stuff) to generate a *lot* of docs... takes forever23:28
JaffaModules aren't there, but that's different to porting perl itself23:28
lcukNokia-N810-50-2:/media/mmc1/old/git-1.5.6# make23:28
lcuk    SUBDIR perl23:28
lcuk/usr/bin/perl Makefile.PL PREFIX='/usr/local'23:28
lcukCan't locate ExtUtils/ in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/                                                  lib/perl/5.8.3 /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.3 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/                                                  lib/perl/5.8 /usr/share/perl/5.8 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at Makefile.PL line                                                   1.23:28
lcukBEGIN failed--compilation aborted at Makefile.PL line 1.23:28
lcukmake[1]: *** [perl.mak] Error 223:28
lcukmake: *** [perl/perl.mak] Error 223:28
* lcuk sorry :$23:28
texelAnd ExtUtils.23:28
texelYeah, those are pretty heavy.23:28
lbtI suspect editing the Makefile and removing the docs dependency would fix it...23:28
texelMost likely.23:28
lcuklbt :) which was why i asked a serious developer with experience of the issues which might arise23:29
lbtand then got a binary tarball in the email...23:29
lbtis that all OK BTW?23:29
* lcuk is thankful for having git now and thinks he will use it very near future possibly for something it wasnt intended but thats tbc23:29
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lbtI've not bothered packaging it as I didn't think anyone else was nuts enough to use git on the NIT itself!23:30
lcukyer i got it running and managed to commit and extract and compare and stuff :)23:30
texellbt: erm... git is probably the best scm for the NIT, tbh.23:30
texelIt's very lightweight.23:30
lbtoh yes - that's why I suggested it...23:30
texelPersonally, I use git to manage the history of anything I work with.23:30
lcukyer it was quicker than svn23:30
lbtbut who does dev *on* the nit...23:30
texelHaving it on the N810 would be SO much better for managing what I edit there.23:31
GeneralAntilleslbt, a lot of people.23:31
lcukhowever, i havent compared like for like using ondemand cpu23:31
lbt(I know...)23:31
lbt(sad puppies)23:31
texelI would love to do dev on the N810, but I'm afraid I'm not quite that good yet. =o)23:31
lcukperformance cpu runs EVERYTHING faster - compiling in less than a minute, numpty running quick internet even a bit better23:31
GeneralAntillesKhertan's put together a lot of good tools for it.23:31
texelGeneralAntilles: do they work for Diablo? =o)23:32
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GeneralAntillesWhy wouldn't they?23:32
* texel shrugs23:32
lcuktexel, i suck compared to the guys in here, my skills are way off out the window and far away23:32
texelNot sure how much of the underpinnings in Diablo has changed.23:32
GeneralAntillesPackaging is still a little funky23:32
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texelFor all I know, the ABI could probably have changed since chinook. =op23:32
GeneralAntillesThat's the extent of the major library changes23:32
texelAh. Well, that explains quite a bit, then. =o)23:33
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lcukand thats because of the upstream problem isnt it23:33
texels/upstream/debian/ ?23:33
GeneralAntillesThat's to do with WiMAX, if anything.23:33
GeneralAntillesMaemo was not affected by the Debian issues.23:33
lcukyer, didnt one of the devs fuckup ssl by leaving a default salt in or something23:33
JaffaRemoved an unassigned variable warning by assigning it to 0. Fixed the warning, reduced the security.23:34
texellcuk: no, the debian maintainer added a patch to openssl to "fix" a bug, but it actually severely restricted the source of entropy that openssl used.23:34
JaffaOf course, there's a good argument that if the unassignment was meaningful it should've been commented.23:34
lbtfrom my reading the blame wasn't on one guy23:34
texelJaffa: hehe -- true, but wow the openssl code base is nasty. O.o23:35
lbtgood writeup on LWN if you care23:35
lcukthanks for the clarification, but isnt that why ssl changed?23:35
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lcukso that bug remains?23:35
GeneralAntillesMaemo was not affected.23:35
lcuki thought we were downstream from deb?23:35
avsDownstream, and very slow.23:36
avsSlow enough, apparently.23:36
GeneralAntillesWe are, the libssl version affected was later then the one bundled.23:36
lcuklol so slow we hadnt even picked up the bug in the first place23:36
lcukheh, that rocks23:36
lcuksecurity by senility23:37
lbtso how's the install going?23:37
lcukwell if i put a proper cd in ive gotta close this and drop off the internet23:37
lcukand if it fecks up i have no way of getting back on the internet23:37
lbtI thought you irced on the nit?23:37
lcuki stopped wubi cos you said not to do it that way23:37
lcukyer i do23:38
lbtso you could chat during the install?23:38
lcukbut the only wireless adapter in the house just happens to be plugged into this computer23:38
* texel stabs the Maemo home applet resize control savagely23:38
lcuktexel, just pretend to do something else (like put it in your pocket) and it will resize for you23:38
lcukyou have to catch it unawares - it has to think you arent looking23:39
texelReminds me of that old joke video by Hunter Cressle about the Macintosh. =o)23:39
* GeneralAntilles shakes his head at lcuk's insistence on using ad-hoc.23:39
texelI still don't get why they haven't fixed that horrible interface.23:40
texelIt's probably the worst piece in the whole Maemo platform. =o(23:40
lcukGeneralAntilles, :) if i had spare money to buy alternative wireless i would.  i *know* its a problem but wtf can i do without any money?23:40
GeneralAntillesCut down on 2 cigarettes a day.23:40
GeneralAntillesYou'll be set in a couple weeks. :P23:40
lcuki spend less than £2 a week on cigs23:40
lbt5 weeks23:40
lcukand i havent actually bought a packet now for nearly 2 months23:40
lbtI just bought an ADSL wifi router from for £10 shipped...23:41
GeneralAntillesOK, what other vices can we curtail? :D23:41
lcukGeneralAntilles, we have so little money in this house its not a joke :)23:41
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lbtmeter ran out...23:41
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qwerty12_N800i remember the meter i had where i had to go to the paypoint with the meters key >.<23:42
lbtI had a coin-op once...23:43
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Atariiqwerty12_N800 ive just left a student house with one of those :(23:47
gourdinanyone reading slashdot here on n8x0 ?23:48
qwerty12_N800:(, i'd hate going to w.yorkshire with that meter, because i'd know the electric  would be gone when i came back >.<23:49
gourdindon't you think browsing is terribly slow ?23:49
GeneralAntillesSlashdot is fine here.23:49
lbtslashdot effect23:49
gourdinzomming in takes several seconds23:49
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RaytrayIt seems fine here as well, does the zoom thing happen for you on other websites as well?23:51
GeneralAntilles"zoom thing"?23:51
Raytray16:47:04 < gourdin> zomming in takes several seconds23:51
* Raytray shrugs.23:51
GeneralAntillesI never zoom23:51
gourdinGeneralAntilles: are you a cyborg ? :)23:52
GeneralAntillesI'm just not blind23:52
GeneralAntillesZooming takes about 2 seconds here23:52
gourdinwhat is the matter with you23:52
Raytrayhe is blind, he is just selective about what he reads.23:52
GeneralAntillesIt's not really an easy process.23:52
nomisfor the curious: this is how librsvg renders the osm-symbols:
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nomiseh. sorry. Wrong channel  :)23:54
gourdini m not blind either GeneralAntilles23:54
gourdinand it takes 6 seconds here23:55
gourdini find this a bit longm23:56
gourdinand sorry if i need to zoom23:56
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GeneralAntillesEh, something could be broken23:57
GeneralAntilles6 seconds sounds a bit long23:57
GeneralAntillesAdBlock installed?23:57
GeneralAntillesVirtual memory enabled?23:57
lbtgourdin: slashdot uses a fairly complex CSS setup23:57
GeneralAntillesAdBlock might do it.23:58
GeneralAntillesIt's a pretty crappy plugin23:58
GeneralAntillesSlows the browser WAY down.23:58
GeneralAntillesCSS + adblocking CSS is the way to go.23:58
gourdinok, i'll try disabling this plugin23:58
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lcukfilter on your router if possible23:58
gourdinGeneralAntilles: addblocking css ?23:59

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