| dieman | i forgot rhapsody has an applet | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Jaffa | cfdisk is much better than sfdisk IMHO | 00:04 |
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| sbaturzio | Aloha! | 00:04 |
| dieman | sfdisk is a bit more robust, better for scripting | 00:07 |
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| dieman | and doesn't have a ncurses dependency | 00:07 |
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| frewsxcv | can you use a headset or keyboard with the nokia 770? | 00:22 |
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| bex | yeah i was wondering if anyone can recommend a bluetooth headset | 00:30 |
| bex | well i have an n800 | 00:31 |
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| dieman | benh: im using a cardo s800 | 00:40 |
| dieman | benh: it works well enough | 00:40 |
| dieman | benh: and is cheap | 00:40 |
| dieman | and can pair up to something like 8 devices | 00:40 |
| benh | dieman: thx | 00:40 |
| dieman | its also stupidly small | 00:41 |
| dieman | for being cheap | 00:41 |
| dieman | ie: star trek communicator small | 00:41 |
| yigal | I was wondering, can one put zsh on maemo? | 00:41 |
| benh | dieman: heh, ok, bonus point :-) | 00:41 |
| dieman | i need to get one of those scala riders for my scooter helmet tho | 00:42 |
| dieman | they make an add-on to hook up a 2-way radio too | 00:42 |
| dieman | so i could get spoken information from the n800 routing, cell phone calls,a nd use the 2-way radio :) | 00:43 |
| frewsxcv | so bluetooth keyboards for os2006? | 00:46 |
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| yigal | bash is fine, just I've grown acustomed to using zsh | 00:48 |
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| lardman | could someone stick /lib/dsp/dsp_dld_avs.conf up somewhere so I could grab it please? | 00:50 |
| lardman | having just overwritten mine by accident | 00:50 |
| gomiam | lardman, give me a few minutes | 00:51 |
| lardman | gomiam: thanks, for Diablo if possible | 00:51 |
| gomiam | that's what I have installed right now :-D | 00:51 |
| lardman | cool :) | 00:51 |
| jott | lardman: http://pastebin.org/pastebin.php?dl=49118 | 00:52 |
| gomiam | http://157.88.94.233/~magao/dsp_dld_avs.conf | 00:53 |
| gomiam | that way you should be able to wget it directly into the tablet | 00:53 |
| lardman | just done that, many thanks :) | 00:54 |
| jott | pastebin is also wgettable though the filename is broken :) | 00:54 |
| gomiam | jott: oh, I didn't know. That IP is my work server, so I always use it XD | 00:55 |
| jott | valac is so slow :( | 00:55 |
| * jott wonders if it would be easy to integrate valac in sbox so it runs on the host | 00:56 | |
| gomiam | lardman, if you could be so kind to recompile maemo stars for Diablo, I would certainly be grateful (I can't right now) | 00:56 |
| gomiam | (lardman or anybody else, that is) | 00:56 |
| gomiam | ;-) | 00:56 |
| jott | real 0m14.993s <- for the hildon "hello world" | 00:57 |
| gomiam | I went a-telescoping last night with some friends and I found it doesn't install on Diablo. XD | 00:57 |
| lardman | gomiam: bed time for me asap, but I can certainly have a go later in the week | 00:57 |
| GAN800 | er, recompile? it doesn't work? | 00:57 |
| gomiam | lardman, no pressure :-) | 00:58 |
| gomiam | GAN800: I tried to install it and it complained about missing libraries. | 00:58 |
| GAN800 | 'doesn't install'? | 00:58 |
| GAN800 | Find the libraries? | 00:58 |
| gomiam | might it be that I need to add a chinook repository? | 00:58 |
| GAN800 | Likely | 00:58 |
| GAN800 | What libraries? | 00:58 |
| gomiam | GAN800: just a couple of minutes and i'll tell you :-) | 00:59 |
| gomiam | it requires libglade from "mistral" | 01:00 |
| lcuk | is lardman the maintainer of an astronomy application? | 01:01 |
| gomiam | lcuk: I don't think so. I just tried to cajole him into recompiling it XD | 01:01 |
| lcuk | or rather, simon are you | 01:01 |
| lcuk | ahhh gomiam | 01:02 |
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| gomiam | by the way, is there a way to make scratchbox work on Cygwin? | 01:03 |
| lcuk | doubt it, bes tusing vmware | 01:04 |
| * lcuk has forgotten how to type | 01:04 | |
| gomiam | oh, ok. I'm working on finally making Debian my base OS, anyway XD | 01:07 |
| lcuk | im still in windows | 01:07 |
| Dekaritae | knives do not make good styluses | 01:11 |
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| texel | Hrm. Is there any way to get qem 0.9.1 working in scratchbox? | 01:14 |
| texel | s/qem/qemu/ | 01:14 |
| infobot | texel meant: Hrm. Is there any way to get qemu 0.9.1 working in scratchbox? | 01:14 |
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| lardman | Anyone fancy some a2dp on the DSP? | 01:23 |
| lardman | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/dsp-sbc/ let me know how you get on | 01:23 |
| lardman | night all | 01:25 |
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| mouser- | I'm looking for a durable case for the N810 to protect it when it's in my pocket and/or on my belt. Are any of the boxwave cases any good? | 02:00 |
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| CrashandDie | GeneralAntilles, it's July 7th here in the civilized part of the world :P | 02:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wasn't when I set the topic this morning. ;) | 02:16 |
| CrashandDie | That's why I endorse the role of the friendly reminder | 02:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | You can bug dneary when he wakes up. ;) | 02:16 |
| CrashandDie | more annoying than a windows popup-balloon, more human than Windows'll ever be | 02:16 |
| CrashandDie | bleh | 02:17 |
| CrashandDie | * Topic for #maemo set by GeneralAntilles at Sun Jul 06 13:46:55 2008 | 02:17 |
| CrashandDie | humour me | 02:17 |
| CrashandDie | GeneralAntilles, I guess I need a bugzilla account in order to post a bug, right ? | 02:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | /topic Wiki page of the day for July 7th: http://wiki.crashanddieistotalfail.com/Crashanddie_is_total_fail_for_true | 02:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes. | 02:18 |
| CrashandDie | heh | 02:18 |
| CrashandDie | That would have been funny if you missed the space bar | 02:18 |
| CrashandDie | Ah well, fuck it | 02:20 |
| CrashandDie | I'll just post again, couldn't remember what I wrote there for the life of me, but what the hell, I know I didn't make the sponsorship, so won't matter a lot now, will it :) | 02:20 |
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| texel | Hmm. | 02:22 |
| texel | I wonder, would anybody be interested in seeing an xconq port to Maemo? | 02:22 |
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| texel | OOooh. | 02:30 |
| texel | emacs-cvs builds so far with qemu-arm-cvs. | 02:30 |
| texel | And it's already doing lisp-dumping. | 02:30 |
| texel | This might just work! | 02:30 |
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| * texel crosses her fingers and finishes watching Impact: Earth | 02:31 | |
| Dekaritae | Widescreen is 16:10 or 16:9 or 2.35:1? | 02:35 |
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| texel | 16:9, IIRC. | 02:35 |
| CrashandDie | Dekaritae, TV widescreen is 16:9, computer widescreen is 16:10 | 02:36 |
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| Dekaritae | Only one can be the standard | 02:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Dekaritae, "widescreen is a lot of things" | 02:36 |
| texel | Heh | 02:36 |
| texel | True enough. | 02:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | er, move the closing quote up a few words. | 02:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pretty much anything that's wider than 4:3 is "widescreen" | 02:36 |
| texel | Even the HD channels can't determine what proper widescreen is -- one science channel gets it at 16:9, while others get it as 16:10. | 02:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | HD is 16:9 | 02:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | The tablets are 15:9 | 02:37 |
| texel | Right. | 02:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Computers are 16:10 | 02:38 |
| texel | But the question is: why do some of the HD channels end up broadcasting data that is off screen? | 02:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | 2.35:1 is the most common film "widescreen" | 02:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | But there is no "widescreen" standard. | 02:39 |
| CrashandDie | you also won't find any cheap/nice 2.35:1 screens | 02:39 |
| CrashandDie | your house probably isn't big enough for it to be worth it | 02:39 |
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| texel | Man! THis compile is /really/ progressing! | 02:46 |
| texel | We may yet have a useable deb for emacs soon. | 02:46 |
| mouser- | I assume there are at least a few n810 users here. What does everyone use for cases? | 02:46 |
| texel | mouser-: I use the supplied one, but the aluminum one looks /nice/. | 02:47 |
| texel | Err, that aluminum one by boxwave. | 02:47 |
| texel | My only complaint is that you can't slide it open with the case on. | 02:47 |
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| texel | Which is actually my main complaint with all of the cases for the N810. | 02:48 |
| texel | Which is exactly why I haven't bought one yet. =op | 02:49 |
| mouser- | This one, texel? http://www.boxwave.com/products/armorcase/armor-case-nokia-n810_3045.htm | 02:49 |
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| texel | mouser-: that's the aluminum one I was talking about. =o) | 02:50 |
| texel | It seems to have a hard-pin hinge at the top, which would prevent opening of the N810 while the case is closed. | 02:50 |
| texel | I guess what I' | 02:51 |
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| texel | m looking for is more along the lines of those MacBook covers that just fit on with pressure and look a bit like a skin. | 02:51 |
| mouser- | texel: I've been trying to find out the use of the plexiglass window if you can't use the touchscreen when it's on. | 02:52 |
| texel | mouser-: I'd love to find one like this: http://www.iunitek.com/iunitek/index.cfm?fuseaction=shop.dspSpecs&part=2599628 | 02:53 |
| texel | But for the N810. | 02:53 |
| texel | mouser-: does it have a plexiglass window? | 02:53 |
| texel | It didn't look like that was on it by default. | 02:53 |
| mouser- | texel: On the boxwave site, it says that it has a clear plexiglass window that protects and allows the screen to be read, but I don't know how it works. Ideally, I'd like a waterproof/crush-resistant case that would allow me to still keep it in my pocket, but I don't know how realistic that is. | 02:56 |
| lcuk | ribbed condoms? | 02:57 |
| mouser- | Barring that, just something like that which would fit on my belt. lcuk, those would be rather difficult to get off, though they would get some looks. | 02:58 |
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| lcuk | ive got a pouch from my old pda, its toughened leather bound with a belt clip thing. i just keep it in my pocket wedged open and slide 810 in and out of it | 02:59 |
| lcuk | unhooked the belt clip bit | 02:59 |
| lcuk | its like this http://wirelessdiscountsite.com/images/TREO700_WALLETPOUCH_BLACKa_1_.gif | 03:01 |
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| lcuk | did you fall or were you pushed? | 03:02 |
| mouser- | lcuk, that looks slightly like the case that came with my ipod only with a top. | 03:02 |
| lcuk | it works really well for me - the open flap velco makes it grip to my pocket lining and i can slip the device in and out with ease | 03:03 |
| * lcuk tries to keep a straight face | 03:03 | |
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| fnordianslippers | is that with the condoms? | 03:05 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk, was that for me ? "did you fall or were you pushed?" ? | 03:12 |
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| lcuk | crashanddie, yes | 03:26 |
| crashanddie | oh | 03:27 |
| crashanddie | in that case | 03:27 |
| crashanddie | top gear caused me to fall | 03:27 |
| texel | Argh! | 03:33 |
| texel | "Failed to open /var/lib/dbus/machine-id" | 03:33 |
| texel | From D-Bus. | 03:33 |
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| texel | That totally sucks. | 03:34 |
| texel | I have to restart the build. =o( | 03:34 |
| * lcuk is a million miles away | 03:34 | |
| texel | BUT | 03:34 |
| texel | It's interesting to see emacs with zeroconf support | 03:35 |
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| frewsxcv | are there any advantages to os2007 HE to os2006? | 04:05 |
| crashanddie | eh ? | 04:20 |
| frewsxcv | this should charge a nokia 770 also right? http://cgi.ebay.com/FOR-NOKIA-7700-7710-8210-8310-8800-USB-MOBILE-CHARGER_W0QQitemZ220253825779QQihZ012QQcategoryZ20368QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem | 04:24 |
| texel | Hrm. Can the built-in fonts in Maemo display katakana characters? | 04:26 |
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| lcdd | texel: no | 04:28 |
| texel | Greh. | 04:29 |
| texel | So then if I package kanatest, then I have to package up a bunch of fonts to go with it. | 04:29 |
| texel | That sucks. | 04:31 |
| lcdd | i wonder if it's okay to depend on other packages in extras | 04:31 |
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| texel | That's a good question. | 04:31 |
| texel | Because kanatest would have to to install properly. | 04:32 |
| texel | But, that being said... | 04:32 |
| texel | ...I've seen some packages depend on others in extras. | 04:32 |
| lcdd | i seem to have installed ttf-kochi-gothic from maemocjk | 04:36 |
| lcdd | the font renders beautifully on the device, btw. | 04:36 |
| texel | Hm. | 04:37 |
| texel | Yeah, but that kind bothers me, anyway -- I wouldn't want to make a dependency on maemocjk for users to have to fight to setup. | 04:38 |
| * texel herself has had enough of fighting with elusive repos to get things to work right | 04:38 | |
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| lcdd | i don't think anything that comes with a "be ready to reflash" warning will end up in extras anytime soon | 04:49 |
| lcdd | but at least their font packages should go | 04:49 |
| bex | my dad called my n800 "your little etch a sketch thing" | 04:51 |
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| texel | Holy crap! | 05:14 |
| texel | emacs COMPILED! | 05:14 |
| texel | I hate myself. | 05:15 |
| texel | That was in the DIABLO_X86 target. =o( | 05:15 |
| texel | Feck. | 05:23 |
| texel | "uncaught target signal 4 (Illegal instruction) - exiting" | 05:23 |
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| jackg | I have seen the article about how to stream video from N800 to linux_box,but now i want to realize the function that stream video from pc to N800 using gstreamer, and anybody can give me some advice ?thank you | 05:36 |
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| jackg | hi guys~If I could get your help, this is my greatest honour | 06:08 |
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| mouser- | jackg: about gstreamer? | 06:09 |
| jackg | yeah~ | 06:09 |
| mouser- | jackg: Sorry, I don't know much about that. Have you tried the internettablettalk forums yet? | 06:09 |
| jackg | i do not know how to stream video from pc to n800(maemo)~ | 06:10 |
| jackg | thank you all the same~ | 06:11 |
| mouser- | jackg: from a linux box to the n800 or from windows to n800? | 06:12 |
| jackg | I wonder whether i can use gst-launch from send side to the n800 ? But the hantro4200enc is the special plugins from arm~ | 06:16 |
| jackg | If realizing a linux box to the n800, how to realize it ? | 06:16 |
| Psykosis | Is there a pre-existing installation for libgnet>=2.0 for OS2008? | 06:23 |
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| frewsxcv | could this be done on os2006? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=199639#post199639 | 07:41 |
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| johnx | that's a definite "maybe" | 07:42 |
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| frewsxcv | maybe install OS2008 HE on my nokia 770? that would be a world of buginess | 07:43 |
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| johnx | well, the actual debian stuff will run fine | 07:44 |
| johnx | what you need to find is how much OS2008 stuff it depends on | 07:45 |
| johnx | it might not be much (any?) | 07:45 |
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| bex | is there any way to make free calls to landlines and mobile phones? | 07:55 |
| johnx | I've heard of grand central | 07:56 |
| johnx | also, there may be other local services depending on your area | 07:56 |
| bex | yeah grand central is not giving out invitations | 07:57 |
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| bex | or i heard it takes like 3 months | 07:58 |
| johnx | I just ended up buying some skype-out minutes | 07:58 |
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| Dekaritae | http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/sys/744177558.html | 08:40 |
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| johnx | if I was anywhere close I might be tempted | 08:41 |
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| herwood | good morning | 09:45 |
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| prez00 | hello | 09:50 |
| prez00 | wow, this diablo release finally makes my n800 fun to use.. | 09:50 |
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| prez00 | everything is faster | 09:51 |
| tank-man | yea? | 09:51 |
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| prez00 | doesn't seem to get bogged down all the ttime | 09:51 |
| prez00 | quick q i cannot figure out, how to make moe fit on my rss feed applet... | 09:52 |
| tank-man | sorry i dont know | 09:53 |
| prez00 | how can i make font smaller, i only get 4 items.. but have seen screenshots where more stuff seems to fit | 09:53 |
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| johnx | you might be able to use a theme with a smaller font | 09:54 |
| prez00 | hmm. .. will try.. | 09:55 |
| macoute | i kinda fear .debs that will repartition something on my device :S | 09:56 |
| johnx | then don't use them | 09:58 |
| tank-man | then read the source | 09:58 |
| macoute | especially when i cant find the source code for them? | 09:58 |
| johnx | unpack the deb... | 09:58 |
| johnx | read the script, do the same thing manually | 09:59 |
| macoute | i'll do, that is for sure :) | 09:59 |
| macoute | but for the users that do not understand what they are doing, those .debs are bad | 09:59 |
| summatusmentis | what .debs are we talking about | 09:59 |
| macoute | if not supervised by the community at least | 09:59 |
| johnx | why? as long as they come with a proper warning and instructions | 10:00 |
| prez00 | does not seem to change font size...regardless of theme | 10:00 |
| macoute | summatusmentis: penguinbait.com | 10:00 |
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| johnx | prez00, even themes that have a smaller font size? | 10:00 |
| macoute | that crossed my mind when checking out the wiki-page https://wiki.maemo.org/Partitioning_a_flash_card | 10:00 |
| summatusmentis | oh... and why are they scary? | 10:00 |
| macoute | for fixing that | 10:00 |
| keesj | macoute: so you want to try a new os without formating? | 10:00 |
| macoute | keesj: i can "format" but i dont want some mysterious .deb-file to do that for me | 10:01 |
| keesj | well I guess one can loopmount | 10:01 |
| summatusmentis | penguinabait's .debs work well, and are probably the best way for those of us that don't want to use sfdisk | 10:01 |
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| prez00 | johnx i tried all the themes.. at least the ones included | 10:01 |
| summatusmentis | macoute: .debs are in no way mysterious. As others have said, it's just a package with a script and binaries in it. | 10:02 |
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| johnx | prez00, those themes all have the same font size...I'm talking about other themes that have *different* font sizes... | 10:02 |
| macoute | summatusmentis: i know that (and i too know that .deb is not the place for a bash script) | 10:02 |
| macoute | but im talking about less-experienced users | 10:02 |
| summatusmentis | why are less experienced users, if they're installing these .debs, going to care that much? | 10:03 |
| macoute | if they use penguinbaits deb (and hopefully find it working) will they try xxx.deb too which will brick their devices? | 10:03 |
| macoute | we should try to teach the new users into understanding what they are doing imo | 10:03 |
| prez00 | johnx where do i get those? | 10:03 |
| macoute | and not give them the false idea of .debs that can be installed whenever you find one | 10:04 |
| keesj | macoute: you are totaly missing the point | 10:04 |
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| johnx | prez00, maemo.org/downloads | 10:04 |
| macoute | keesj: how long have you been using linux? | 10:04 |
| keesj | 10 year + | 10:04 |
| macoute | and how long have you tried and teach new users? | 10:04 |
| keesj | every day? | 10:04 |
| macoute | how typical it is that they install something which they doesnt understand at all? | 10:04 |
| macoute | they=new users | 10:05 |
| tank-man | you know when you run an unknown .exe on windows, you can get bad results too | 10:05 |
| keesj | macoute: I don't know | 10:05 |
| macoute | tank-man: that is true, thats why i dont recommend running an .exe-file whenever you find one | 10:05 |
| johnx | macoute, so what is the solution? | 10:06 |
| summatusmentis | any reference to penguinbait's .debs warn users as to what the .debs will do... | 10:06 |
| keesj | I don't like that the .deb file i snot located on a maemo.org server or that is not build from "source" so everybody can check the quality | 10:06 |
| johnx | keesj, does it contain any binary components? | 10:07 |
| johnx | it's all scripts, right? | 10:07 |
| macoute | summatusmentis: i dont see anything on penguinbait.com | 10:07 |
| keesj | macoute: of often have you helpe people format theire harddrive? and how often has you install famoush's flasher? | 10:07 |
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| johnx | macoute, that's fair. poke at penguinbait to add a warning | 10:08 |
| summatusmentis | macoute: how does one get to penguinbait.com? | 10:08 |
| macoute | and i dont blame penguinbait, hes doing great work | 10:08 |
| macoute | summatusmentis: by some html-compliant browser, i suppose? :) | 10:08 |
| prez00 | johnx tks, will look | 10:08 |
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| keesj | johnx: it's about thrust. pbait can change the .deb file any time he like , so 100 people can say "yes it works" and ther rest is saying "it installed a troyan" | 10:08 |
| macoute | keesj: and that is my point, too | 10:09 |
| summatusmentis | macoute: :) heh, but seriously, the only place I've ever seen it referenced is ITT threads, with numerous warnings | 10:09 |
| johnx | and a source package would change that how? or even a script with the same name? | 10:09 |
| macoute | or some evil guy can crack down penguinbaits site and then deliver false version of his .debs | 10:09 |
| johnx | alright, so the solution to that is GPG signed .debs | 10:10 |
| summatusmentis | I guess ultimately, if you're installing anything that you didn't either build yourself, or watch build, you're trusting that it'll do what it says | 10:10 |
| macoute | true too | 10:10 |
| keesj | no way gpg works either | 10:10 |
| macoute | but i rather trust maemo.org (for example) than foobar.ru | 10:10 |
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| macoute | and i rather trust 100 guys who are responsible (somehow) than only one guy | 10:11 |
| johnx | it's not like someone at maemo.org vets every single line of code | 10:11 |
| johnx | root kits or trojans would still be possible | 10:11 |
| summatusmentis | why? there's just as much possibility that maemo.org gets cracked, or someone tampers with | 10:12 |
| keesj | it's about kowing the .deb file was creates from what source, and the only way to do that is to let somebody else create the package(extras' builder) | 10:12 |
| macoute | summatusmentis: if maemo.org gets hacked, i trust there are a lot of users who will notice it and quicly report it. | 10:12 |
| * johnx heads off for now | 10:12 | |
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| summatusmentis | how? | 10:12 |
| summatusmentis | how is that any different from penguinbait's stuff? | 10:13 |
| macoute | if pbaits own computer at his home gets hacked while hes on a vacation, itll take 2 weeks before he notices it | 10:13 |
| keesj | I am totaly used to the amound ot clicks I have to press for any package. it doesn't help at all | 10:13 |
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| summatusmentis | macoute: modification of one package on maemo.org isn't that different | 10:13 |
| macoute | summatusmentis: actually, it is | 10:14 |
| summatusmentis | ultimately it's a level of trust, and who you trust | 10:14 |
| keesj | anyway... hoppping out of this disc :P | 10:14 |
| macoute | thats true | 10:14 |
| macoute | and as i said, id rather trust maemo.org (and ultimately nokia) as some random dudes website, dont you? | 10:15 |
| summatusmentis | so if users are going to blindly trust anyone, then they probably deserve to have their device bricked, just like any windows user | 10:15 |
| lbt | I think there's a point being missed: it's not about any one repo; in general the intention is to have a main repo that is 'professionally' managed, open and relatively secure. Nothing stops other people distributing code; but nothing stops devs using the main repo either. One main repo is easier to secure than hundreds of smaller ones. | 10:15 |
| macoute | and users will blindly trust anyone if we teach them to do that | 10:15 |
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| macoute | but if we tell them that you shouldnt install ANYTHING but from maemo.org official repositories, they will learn a valuable lesson :) | 10:16 |
| summatusmentis | macoute: I'm not going to just install anything, but I generally trust someone w/ a name for themselves in the community | 10:16 |
| summatusmentis | anything but maemo.org repos? you're missing lots of software then :-/ | 10:16 |
| macoute | summatusmentis: and a lot of confusement too ;) | 10:17 |
| lbt | it's all about risk and risk assessment. Community standing affects risk perception. | 10:17 |
| summatusmentis | I agree, there needs to be a centralized repo | 10:17 |
| summatusmentis | lbt: yes, agreed | 10:17 |
| macoute | and we are not talking about me or you, we are talking about that guy who bought his first-ever-linux-device and now wants to do something with it | 10:18 |
| summatusmentis | how does that guy end up at pb.com? ITT? | 10:18 |
| lbt | users aren't stupid : maemo.org == department store. websites == market stalls | 10:18 |
| macoute | "hmm, lets see, a .deb-package (these are the ones that install easily) which promises me a 100% boost (downloadable from hackers.com), lets try that one" | 10:18 |
| lbt | some market stalls are superb, family run businesses | 10:18 |
| lbt | others are run by "the family" | 10:19 |
| lbt | :D | 10:19 |
| macoute | lbt: you speek wisely | 10:19 |
| lbt | (OTOH some departments stores aren't too ethical either...) | 10:19 |
| macoute | speak | 10:19 |
| summatusmentis | I'm going to bed, 'night all | 10:19 |
| lbt | 'night | 10:19 |
| macoute | summatusmentis: its 10 AM :) | 10:19 |
| lbt | it's 8am! | 10:20 |
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| herwood | :) | 10:21 |
| summatusmentis | macoute: it's 2 AM | 10:22 |
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| prez00 | is there a wifi scanner for n800, something that can beep as i find a wifi spot as i walk? | 10:26 |
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| macoute | prez00: that would be a battery killer, id suppose | 10:27 |
| macoute | but you should get a prog like that quite easily, as all you need to add is a beep to the builtin connection manager | 10:28 |
| prez00 | macoute, true, but sometimes would be nice.. | 10:28 |
| prez00 | macoute, once u find aps along your route no need to do it again.. | 10:29 |
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| wiza | lardman|lunch: umm, your dsp-sbc deb doesn't install, says that it's incompatible application package etc | 10:34 |
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| wiza | and where the hell is my Documents folder in directory structure? | 10:40 |
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| tank-man | in /home/user/.some_hidden_dir | 10:42 |
| tank-man | in /home/user/.Documents ? | 10:42 |
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| wiza | found it, MyDocs/.documents | 10:45 |
| wiza | but I just remembered that I can't actually get to root since nokia's flashing apps don't work on intel mac | 10:45 |
| wiza | except that GUI thing for 770... and now I'm not in R&D mode :( | 10:46 |
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| Italodance | guys how can i add a cover for an artist/song in my canola? | 10:56 |
| Italodance | the pic/cover is available is on my mmc's | 10:56 |
| tank-man | i also would like to know :) | 10:57 |
| lbt | wiza: http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access | 11:02 |
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| macoute | doesnt canola get the pic from the same directory as the songs are in? | 11:03 |
| macoute | that is how most music players work | 11:03 |
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| macoute | so copy the image to the same directory as the music files are in and try | 11:03 |
| tank-man | itunes/psp can read a mp3 with the cover somehow embeded in them | 11:04 |
| Italodance | ? | 11:04 |
| macoute | if that doesnt work, maybe you need to convert the image somehow | 11:04 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:04 |
| Italodance | macoute | 11:04 |
| lbt | morning | 11:04 |
| Italodance | the same directory as the songs can be ok? | 11:04 |
| Kegetys | seems quite wasteful to have it embedded in every mp3 of the album? | 11:04 |
| lbt | Kegetys: OTOH it's always available - and how many kb of image does it use compared to the size of an mp3 | 11:05 |
| macoute | Italodance: yeah, though you need to have separate directories for every album you have | 11:05 |
| lbt | 'cos disk is *sooo* expensive nowadays ;) | 11:06 |
| wiza | lbt: thanks :D | 11:06 |
| macoute | lbt: actually i just thought that the disk is becoming the most advertised part of a computer (and the single most expensive part too) as the flash disks get more popular | 11:06 |
| GAN800 | wiza, Nokia's flashers works fine on Intel Macs. :/ | 11:06 |
| Kegetys | lbt: I guess you can sell me a cheap >8GB miniSD memory card then ;) | 11:06 |
| macoute | on a eeepc you really do value hard drive :) | 11:07 |
| wiza | GAN800: umm, how? :) | 11:07 |
| lbt | Kegetys: as I said "how many kb of image does it use compared to the size of an mp3" | 11:07 |
| GAN800 | run it? :\ | 11:07 |
| Kegetys | lbt: well that would depend on the size and quality of course... but anyway it seems like a rather inefficient and ugly solution, I'd rather embed it on the album playlist maybe | 11:08 |
| GAN800 | Safari sometimes chokes on the caching system, try downloading with Firefox. | 11:08 |
| lbt | and then I copy one mp3 from that album to my player - no picture :( | 11:08 |
| lbt | so that won't work... next! | 11:08 |
| Kegetys | not that I really care about covers personally | 11:08 |
| lbt | it's actually a fairly hard problem to solve generically | 11:09 |
| macoute | Italodance: but actually, a google for cover image canola would turn up this one http://openbossa.indt.org/canola/news.html | 11:09 |
| lbt | any specific instance can undoubtedly be optimised for | 11:09 |
| macoute | ...and that would have told you that "Now you don't need to use another application for managing cover arts and video thumbnails. The standalone 3rd party Canola Tuning application has been turned into a plugin that integrate seamlessly into Canola and give you more control over your cover arts, video thumbnails by allowing you to update and delete unused cover arts as well as select your cover art sources." | 11:09 |
| lbt | but by denormalising into every mp3 you gain a lot of flexibility | 11:09 |
| macoute | Italodance: so basically, install canola2-tuning-plugin | 11:10 |
| lbt | macoute: I was talking about flash disks over the w'end. Did you know they can use more power than normal disks... | 11:11 |
| macoute | lbt: i blogged about that one a week ago or so, so yes, i did know :) | 11:11 |
| lbt | :D | 11:11 |
| macoute | lbt: the article actually was kinda interesting | 11:11 |
| macoute | the original article in toms hardware, not mine :D | 11:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Besides, wiza, you don't need R&D for root. . . . | 11:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~easyroot | 11:11 |
| infobot | rumour has it, easyroot is an easy way to get root access on OS2008 and can be found at http://nitapps.com | 11:11 |
| wiza | I know, just installed it | 11:12 |
| lbt | apparently it's because the SSDs especially read in parallel and the current draw characteristics are worse for the battery | 11:12 |
| lbt | GeneralAntilles: shouldn't infobot point to http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access | 11:12 |
| macoute | lbt: and because SSD:s do not basically have any power optimization, so there is only 2 states, idle and running | 11:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, if you want to change him. | 11:12 |
| lbt | how :) | 11:12 |
| tank-man | i believe you can just comment out the line that checks for R&D mode in the script to gain root | 11:12 |
| lbt | ~change infobot | 11:12 |
| infobot | that doesn't look right | 11:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~rootaccess is http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access | 11:13 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles: okay | 11:13 |
| lbt | OK - ta... | 11:13 |
| lbt | the guy I was with is one of the kernel devs and he's working on using various types of overlayfs and things with a homebrew SSD - v. interesting. | 11:15 |
| timelyx | macoute: i wouldn't trust anyone to notice a maemo.org hack | 11:21 |
| timelyx | macoute: and nokia doesn't want you to assert that maemo.org is their job | 11:22 |
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| timelyx | wiza: there are dozens of ways to get root w/o r&d, i use capture-root :) | 11:24 |
| gomiam | I'm more partial to becomeroot | 11:24 |
| timelyx | the application manager is very clear that anything not coming for a very specific source isn't certified by Nokia and pretty much voids just about everything. | 11:25 |
| timelyx | gomiam: i'm partial to capture-root because i wrote it :) | 11:25 |
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| Proteous | I prefer sudoMakeMeRootNOW | 11:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | We need somebody to maintain a root package in Extras. . . . | 11:25 |
| gomiam | timelyx: LOL | 11:25 |
| tank-man | i have my dog click ok on those warnings :) | 11:25 |
| gomiam | timelyx: what's that about warranty being voided by installing extra software? | 11:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | easyroot is somewhat better than becomeroot because it's at least easy to find | 11:25 |
| timelyx | gomiam: have you read the dialog? | 11:25 |
| gomiam | yeah, kind of. Of course, those threats don't work here in Spain, so... | 11:26 |
| Proteous | yeah, so much for my first born, hope he's happy at nokia | 11:26 |
| timelyx | gomiam: oh really? | 11:26 |
| jackg | anybody know how to stream video from pc to n800 ? I use gst-launch in the send side, mplayer in the receive side ~but when caching reach 18.67%,it stop and show no images~~ So another methods can realize this function? Are there other ways to achieve this ? | 11:26 |
| gomiam | yup. Warranty voiding because you installed some software or other is a null clause here, AFAIK. | 11:26 |
| timelyx | nice, i have a keyboard tray under my desk | 11:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | jackg, http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org/ | 11:27 |
| timelyx | it's being held up by *one* screw | 11:27 |
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| Proteous | don't lean on it | 11:27 |
| timelyx | http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/hildon-application-manager-l10n-public-5.0+r6160/po/en_GB.po#421 | 11:27 |
| timelyx | Proteous: no kidding | 11:27 |
| timelyx | http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/hildon-application-manager-l10n-public-5.0+r6160/po/en_GB.po#429 | 11:28 |
| timelyx | the dialog is fairly explicit | 11:28 |
| Proteous | NSFW | 11:28 |
| timelyx | and btw, if a judge actually makes Nokia liable for you installing a root kit via a .deb | 11:28 |
| timelyx | you have serious problems w/ your legal system | 11:28 |
| timelyx | worse than .us. :) | 11:28 |
| timelyx | GeneralAntilles: http://mxr.maemo.org/garage/source/mediautils/ :) | 11:29 |
| Proteous | .us, pfff, WE ARE .com .net .org!!! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA | 11:29 |
| Proteous | *cough* | 11:29 |
| timelyx | hey, i have a .us and a .eu :) | 11:29 |
| * timelyx wonders what www-src is | 11:30 | |
| GeneralAntilles | We still need a maemo.org announcement of mxr. | 11:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | timelyx, I was thinking the same thing. . . . | 11:30 |
| * GeneralAntilles pokes Jaffa. | 11:30 | |
| timelyx | yeah, it's on my todo list for today | 11:30 |
| zapppp | Could someone help me with connecivity related problem? I have tried to disconnect current connection with multiple ways but I can't get it working. Basically I want to close current connection and open a new one (ad-hoc). How I can do same thing with C or python that happens when disconnect is clicked in the connectivity UI?? | 11:31 |
| timelyx | zapppp: mxr.maemo.org/diablo | 11:31 |
| timelyx | it's your reference to just about everything :) | 11:31 |
| timelyx | http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/icd2-osso-ic-dev-2.0/include/ | 11:32 |
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| timelyx | seems to be the interfaces you have available | 11:32 |
| timelyx | ooh, interesting | 11:32 |
| * timelyx didn't realize mxr.maemo.org/diablo had kernel sources | 11:32 | |
| timelyx | no wonder it's bigger than my internal diablo reference :o | 11:32 |
| timelyx | (no, i don't hand write / review each page from mxr.maemo.org ;-) ) | 11:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | That would make you a crazy person. | 11:33 |
| timelyx | some people probably assume that i know everything about a web site i "maintain", i just want people to understand that it's a tool, i only know how to use it, not what it actually contains :) | 11:34 |
| timelyx | the search i used fwiw was http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/find?string=icd.*h$ | 11:34 |
| timelyx | i happened to know that connectivity's daemon is called icd (internet connectivity daemon) | 11:34 |
| prez00 | what's best tutorial for calendar sync between n800 google calendar? | 11:41 |
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| prez00 | i am now all linux.. phone, mot a1200, n800, thinkpad x60 ubuntu :-) | 11:42 |
| prez00 | oops tp x61 | 11:42 |
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| atul | while doing this in _86 "fakeroot apt-get install maemo-sdk-runtime" giving error message ": Sub-process /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)" | 11:52 |
| atul | How to resolve ? | 11:52 |
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| lbt | atul: maybe fakeroot apt-get update | 11:55 |
| atul | lbt: ok I will try thanks | 11:56 |
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| atul | lbt: it not working still causing error | 12:00 |
| lbt | does update work OK? | 12:01 |
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| atul | lbt: yes | 12:08 |
| lbt | when you run the "fakeroot apt-get install maemo-sdk-runtime" command - is that the only output? | 12:09 |
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| lbt | pastebin.com if there is more | 12:10 |
| atul | lbt: ok I know I will send u ther whole result | 12:12 |
| disq | quim talking onstage right now and i'm na nerd | 12:12 |
| lbt | a nerd would be streaming it... :) | 12:12 |
| JamieBennett | Oh, streaming, that would be way cool | 12:13 |
| JamieBennett | hope it's being recorded somewhere | 12:13 |
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| atul | lbt: This is the output http://pastebin.ca/1064486 | 12:13 |
| lbt | it looks like the scratchbox isn't properly installed : /scratchbox/tools/bin/sh: line 1: /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: No such file or directory | 12:15 |
| lbt | and gconftool-2: command not found | 12:16 |
| atul | lbt: so what to next | 12:16 |
| timelyx | no | 12:16 |
| timelyx | dpkg-preconfigure just isn't part of maeom | 12:16 |
| atul | shall I Uninstall and do it form scratch one more time | 12:16 |
| timelyx | that's a "feature" | 12:16 |
| lbt | install debconf | 12:17 |
| timelyx | personally, i'd try configuring certs/osso-clock/... and see what happens | 12:17 |
| atul | lbt: For installing anything it is giving me same error. | 12:17 |
| lbt | timelyx: do you know about this - I'm working it through (though atul - you did a dist-upgrade this time - be consistent please :) | 12:17 |
| timelyx | nope :) | 12:18 |
| timelyx | my scratchbox was stolen :) | 12:18 |
| lbt | I nearly rm -rf'ed mine - oops | 12:18 |
| timelyx | lbt: i'd take a working box and ask it where gconftool-2 lives | 12:18 |
| timelyx | (i.e. which package owns it) and then i'd ask atul's box what's the status of that package | 12:19 |
| lbt | gconf2 | 12:19 |
| timelyx | atul: dpkg -l gconf2 | 12:19 |
| atul | Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold| Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed | 12:20 |
| atul | |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad | 12:20 |
| lbt | timelyx: FWIW, on Diablo, debconf ==1.4.70.osso2 | 12:20 |
| timelyx | lbt: http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/find?string=debconf.*debian/control | 12:21 |
| timelyx | i can see that :) | 12:21 |
| timelyx | (i don't have a binary xref) | 12:21 |
| jackg | General Antilles, I want to achieve functional about capturing the picture from webcam in the pc side and transmit this data to the n800, and i do not know whether mediaserv and table-encode can realize the function, So how to realize this:)thanks again | 12:22 |
| lbt | so atul try : apt-get install gconf2 debconf | 12:22 |
| atul | lbt: ok | 12:23 |
| atul | lbt: same error it giving to me. | 12:23 |
| lbt | try : apt-get install debconf | 12:23 |
| timelyx | atul: what "same error"? | 12:23 |
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| atul | lbt:, timelyx This is the error message http://pastebin.ca/1064486 | 12:24 |
| timelyx | um. no no no no no | 12:24 |
| timelyx | fakeroot apt-get install gconf2 | 12:24 |
| lbt | doh! | 12:25 |
| atul | timelyx: ok | 12:25 |
| atul | timelyx: same error. | 12:25 |
| lbt | atul: the last line of the huge error may be the same but that's not the important part... | 12:26 |
| lbt | the bits saying "/usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: No such file or directory" etc are important | 12:26 |
| timelyx | atul: it can't possibly be the same error | 12:27 |
| timelyx | pastebin *just* my command + output | 12:27 |
| timelyx | lbt: really, trust me, dpkg-preconfigure is not important | 12:27 |
| atul | timelyx: I means it is giving error like not configuring dpkg | 12:27 |
| atul | like that | 12:27 |
| lbt | sure - just an example of an error message ... | 12:28 |
| timelyx | atul: um. pastebin | 12:28 |
| timelyx | pretend you are incapable of speaking English... all you're allowed to do is follow instructions and pastebin output | 12:28 |
| timelyx | no thinking allowed :) | 12:28 |
| atul | timelyx: http://pastebin.ca/1064499 this is error output | 12:30 |
| timelyx | um | 12:30 |
| timelyx | oh fsck | 12:31 |
| * timelyx curses | 12:31 | |
| timelyx | apt sucks | 12:31 |
| lbt | <grin> | 12:31 |
| timelyx | fakeroot apt-get -f install | 12:31 |
| timelyx | whose brilliant idea was it to have a tool which actively ignores its arguments? | 12:31 |
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| lbt | clearly the developer knew he'd know better than you... | 12:32 |
| timelyx | clearly | 12:32 |
| timelyx | ' | 12:34 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Both mud & mediautils use PHP to generate the simple template for the pages. But ferenc turned off PHP on *.garage.maemo.org, so www-src contains the PHP and a shell script which generates the static HTML and deposits it in www | 12:34 |
| atul | timelyx: , lbt:, am facing this problem in 86 target in ARMEL it is working fine | 12:34 |
| timelyx | atul: yeah, i don't really care about that :) | 12:34 |
| timelyx | anyway, does pastebin the output from fakeroot apt-get -f install | 12:35 |
| timelyx | http://www.linux.com/articles/48910 | 12:36 |
| timelyx | "What to do when apt-get fails" | 12:36 |
| atul | timelyx: lbt: This is fakeroot apt-get install output http://pastebin.ca/1064500 | 12:36 |
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| lbt | timelyx: I'd try downloading the gconf2.deb and dpkg -i... | 12:37 |
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| timelyx | lbt: "yuck" | 12:37 |
| lbt | well, it'll keep the package db clean and then apt should be able to -f | 12:38 |
| timelyx | atul: apt-get -f remove certs osso-clock libosso-certman1 libosso-certman-dev multimediad osso-addressbook osso-applet-certman maemo-explicit | 12:38 |
| timelyx | w/ fakeroot | 12:38 |
| atul | timelyx: ok | 12:38 |
| timelyx | if that doesn't work, you can try: fakeroot dpkg -r certs osso-clock libosso-certman1 libosso-certman-dev multimediad osso-addressbook osso-applet-certman maemo-explicit | 12:40 |
| timelyx | (or replace -r w/ --purge) | 12:41 |
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| atul | timelyx: ya some package it wont remove this is output http://pastebin.ca/1064505 | 12:42 |
| lbt | you know where gconf-schemas lives don't you.... | 12:44 |
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| rm_you | lardman|lunch: so | 12:44 |
| timelyx | progress :) | 12:44 |
| timelyx | fakeroot dpkg --purge osso-addressbook osso-clock | 12:44 |
| atul | timelyx: ok | 12:45 |
| atul | timelyx: this time http://pastebin.ca/1064506 | 12:46 |
| timelyx | brother | 12:47 |
| timelyx | dpkg sucks :) | 12:47 |
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| drako | hello | 12:47 |
| drako | http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/nokia-n810-gets-official/ | 12:48 |
| timelyx | i think at this point i'd do something like: | 12:48 |
| timelyx | dpkg -L osso-clock | 12:48 |
| drako | is that information accurate? | 12:48 |
| timelyx | fakeroot rm /var/lib/dpkg/*/*osso-clock* | 12:48 |
| drako | that n810 should play mp4? | 12:48 |
| lbt | eek - really | 12:48 |
| lbt | rather than just downloading the deb and dpkg -i ? | 12:48 |
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| lardman | long lunch that one :) | 12:49 |
| timelyx | lbt: i consider the risk in getting an incompatible deb worse than the risk in destroying a registration for one | 12:49 |
| lardman | rm_you: all working | 12:49 |
| johnx | drako, yeah, up to 400x240 or so | 12:49 |
| tank-man | drako, yea mplayer can play all that | 12:49 |
| timelyx | however, atul is free to follow your advice | 12:49 |
| timelyx | i'm off to work | 12:49 |
| drako | what about the media player that comes with him? | 12:50 |
| rm_you | lardman: you figure out what was slowing it down? | 12:50 |
| macoute | drako: that doesnt play mp4 iirc | 12:50 |
| timelyx | drako: http://europe.nokia.com/A4568593 | 12:50 |
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| timelyx | that's the official page | 12:50 |
| timelyx | anything that is wrong there is nokia's fault | 12:50 |
| lardman | rm_you: no, but probably something to do with the ARM being run that little bit slower | 12:50 |
| lardman | rm_you: as a dsp task was obviously running | 12:50 |
| lardman | rm_you: moved the input and output buffers to faster local SRAM and it sorted it out | 12:51 |
| drako | i have a mp4 video and isn't playing it | 12:51 |
| drako | it says codec not supported | 12:52 |
| drako | try to download it from here http://www.bigbuckbunny.org/index.php/download/ | 12:52 |
| rm_you | is mp4 a codec or a container? | 12:52 |
| lbt | atul: try : fakeroot -f install gconf2 | 12:52 |
| lbt | then pastebin | 12:52 |
| tank-man | container | 12:52 |
| johnx | drako, it might be the ac3 audio | 12:53 |
| johnx | rm_you, yes | 12:53 |
| drako | ooohhhhh | 12:53 |
| drako | k | 12:53 |
| atul | lbt: ok | 12:53 |
| drako | :D | 12:53 |
| nomis | drako: or the size of the video. | 12:54 |
| drako | 800x480 | 12:54 |
| drako | to much? | 12:54 |
| rm_you | does mediaplayer support h264? cause i know that can be in an mp4 | 12:54 |
| johnx | drako, yeah, too big. I'll try the ipod version. the psp version might work too | 12:54 |
| atul | lbt, it install it says already new version is install | 12:54 |
| drako | i'll try the h264 | 12:54 |
| lbt | pastebin | 12:54 |
| johnx | drako, anything bigger than 640x480 probably won't play well | 12:55 |
| rm_you | i think i tested h264 in mplayer and even mplayer couldnt play h264 very well... it is VERY processor intensive to decode | 12:55 |
| rm_you | you'd be best off with avi/xvid anyway | 12:55 |
| johnx | mp4 w/ mp3 audio would be fine | 12:56 |
| johnx | that's pretty close to xvid in terms of the video codec | 12:56 |
| johnx | IIRC | 12:56 |
| rm_you | you can get about 1200 video bitrate | 12:56 |
| drako | just to know wich media es best for it | 12:56 |
| rm_you | actual mp4, like mpeg4 | 12:56 |
| johnx | which is totally overkill for everyone except rm_you :) | 12:56 |
| rm_you | lol | 12:56 |
| rm_you | it looks beautiful | 12:56 |
| rm_you | i should upload a sample AMV | 12:56 |
| drako | hehe | 12:56 |
| johnx | rm_you, can you taste the colors? :P | 12:56 |
| rm_you | so people can see what a GOOD encode looks like | 12:56 |
| rm_you | lol | 12:57 |
| * rm_you uploads Koop | 12:57 | |
| * rm_you uploads Koop's Skittles AMV | 12:57 | |
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| rm_you | there we go: http://www.ageofikon.info/N10-Koop-Skittles.avi | 13:04 |
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| lardman | what we need is an IVA2.... | 13:05 |
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| rm_you | anyway, that will play fine even with a2dp | 13:06 |
| johnx | or those ARM ASM decoding libs | 13:06 |
| lardman | s/IVA2/working IVA2 ;) | 13:06 |
| pupnik | congrats lardman ! | 13:07 |
| lardman | thanks pupnik | 13:08 |
| johnx | yeah, very impressive work lardman | 13:08 |
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| lardman | has anyone tried it yet? | 13:08 |
| lardman | other than me | 13:08 |
| johnx | i have | 13:08 |
| johnx | works pretty well | 13:08 |
| johnx | for some reason it doesn't behave well when I use mplayer as a canola backend | 13:09 |
| johnx | it's probably some option that canola feeds mplayer | 13:09 |
| rm_you | there we go: http://www.ageofikon.info/N10-Haruhi.avi too | 13:09 |
| lardman | hmm | 13:09 |
| rm_you | i am about to do some comparisons, lardman | 13:09 |
| lardman | might also be an issue with the ARM being underclocked though | 13:09 |
| atul | lbt: Update is working fine but upgrade is not it is giving this error log http://pastebin.ca/1064516 | 13:09 |
| lardman | rm_you: cool | 13:09 |
| johnx | also, what was the sudden leap you made that got you from 4 seconds of audio to having it working near perfect? | 13:09 |
| lardman | rm_you: I was seeing ~20% CPU usage by mplayer when using the DSP | 13:10 |
| johnx | same here, at 330Mhz | 13:10 |
| lardman | johnx: moved the input & output buffers to faster internal SRAM rather than slow SDRAM | 13:10 |
| johnx | and that made all the difference it appears | 13:10 |
| lbt | and what's the output of the last command I mentioned? | 13:10 |
| lardman | johnx: do you know what it was beforehand? | 13:10 |
| johnx | with software a2dp in diablo it's around 10-30% at 400Mhz | 13:11 |
| lardman | johnx: yep; there are probably some other bits which could be moved across, the sbc->priv struct is large so I stuck it in (almost unlimited) SDRAM | 13:11 |
| johnx | if locked at 400MHz it works pretty well but there are skips | 13:11 |
| lardman | did the install script work ok? | 13:12 |
| johnx | setting mplayer's cache seems to affect both dsp-sbc and cpu-sbc | 13:12 |
| johnx | install script worked great | 13:12 |
| johnx | would you be interested in me making a .deb for it? | 13:12 |
| atul | lbt: gconf2 it is giving same error messages that i pastbin | 13:12 |
| johnx | if I can figure out why it doesn't behave in canola and fix that I think a lot of people would be interested | 13:13 |
| lardman | johnx: cool | 13:13 |
| johnx | also, is there a way to switch back and forth between dsp-sbc and cpu-sbc without uninstalling? | 13:13 |
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| lbt | atul: if you don't paste the errors I can't help. Maybe you should try timelyx's suggestions. | 13:14 |
| lardman | johnx: you can probably rename the sbcenc.o file and then it will fall back to sw encoding | 13:15 |
| atul | lbt : ok i will pastbin | 13:15 |
| lardman | johnx: I should add some env var logic in there to let people change it | 13:15 |
| atul | lbt: This is gconf2 Error log http://pastebin.ca/1064518 | 13:16 |
| johnx | hmm...maybe fakeroot apt-get install gconf2 | 13:17 |
| johnx | err...sorry | 13:17 |
| johnx | fakeroot apt-get --reinstall install gconf2 | 13:17 |
| rm_you | so how do i use this | 13:18 |
| rm_you | do i use a2dp enable still? | 13:18 |
| johnx | yeah | 13:18 |
| lbt | yes - I asked atul to do fakeroot but he missed that (again) | 13:18 |
| atul | johnx, it is giving this error message http://pastebin.ca/1064518 | 13:18 |
| lardman | rm_you: yes | 13:19 |
| atul | lbt i did it using fakeroot | 13:19 |
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| johnx | atul, sorry, try the second command I posted: fakeroot apt-get --reinstall install gconf2 | 13:19 |
| lbt | that's not what the pastebin says... | 13:19 |
| johnx | the --reinstall line is the key | 13:19 |
| lardman | rm_you: do you have a link to that deb? I'll put in an url to my email to the list | 13:20 |
| johnx | though I don't know how you have gconf2 but no gconftool-2 ... | 13:20 |
| rm_you | johnx prolly does... it's in the first post in his thread | 13:20 |
| lbt | johnx: we assumed no gconf2 since no gconftool-2 ... then the install said 'latest verison' ... odd. | 13:20 |
| timelyx | lbt: i thought we asked for dpkg -l gconf2 | 13:21 |
| lardman | got it | 13:21 |
| timelyx | 12:19 timelyx atul: dpkg -l gconf2 | 13:21 |
| lbt | we did... but I suspect atul didn't paste all the output... | 13:21 |
| lbt | <sigh> | 13:21 |
| rm_you | hrm | 13:21 |
| rm_you | this is definately not working right | 13:21 |
| rm_you | sec | 13:22 |
| timelyx | heh, he only pasted the header, not the answer :) | 13:22 |
| johnx | rm_you, try it from the CLI first | 13:22 |
| sp3000 | timelyx: food closes in 8 | 13:22 |
| timelyx | oh fsck | 13:22 |
| timelyx | sp3000: can you get food for me? | 13:22 |
| atul | timelyx: lbt: This is the output [sbox-CHINOOK_X86: ~] > dpkg -l gconf2 | 13:23 |
| atul | Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold | 13:23 |
| atul | | Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed | 13:23 |
| atul | |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)|/ Name Version Description+++-=======ii gconf2 2.16.0-1osso9 GNOME configuration database system. | 13:23 |
| rm_you | yeah it is exploding... | 13:23 |
| sp3000 | that doesn't sound practical :) | 13:23 |
| rm_you | video is just frozen | 13:23 |
| rm_you | sound choppy | 13:23 |
| lbt | atul: pastebin | 13:23 |
| rm_you | only at 35% tho | 13:23 |
| lbt | and last time you missed the critical last line... | 13:23 |
| timelyx | order it | 13:23 |
| timelyx | vegy pizza or vegitarian | 13:23 |
| johnx | rm_you, try with an mp3 | 13:23 |
| timelyx | i'll be there shortly | 13:23 |
| timelyx | call me | 13:23 |
| rm_you | dunno if i have one >_> | 13:24 |
| atul | timelyx: lbt: This is output http://pastebin.ca/1064522 | 13:24 |
| rm_you | wait | 13:24 |
| rm_you | yeah i do | 13:24 |
| lbt | yes, we know that now :) | 13:24 |
| rm_you | hrm | 13:24 |
| rm_you | CPU on performance... | 13:24 |
| lbt | now run johnx's command... fakeroot apt-get --reinstall install gconf2 | 13:24 |
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| lbt | and pastebin the output | 13:24 |
| rm_you | mplayer is at ~20% | 13:25 |
| rm_you | playing pretty good.... | 13:25 |
| johnx | rm_you, for sbc-dsp it will automatically switch it to 330 so it can turn up the dsp | 13:25 |
| rm_you | got a couple microskips but it seems alright now | 13:25 |
| rm_you | hrm | 13:25 |
| johnx | I think the skipping might still be a result of the alsa subsystem that Nokia uses... | 13:25 |
| rm_you | ... ?? dsp/0 process? | 13:26 |
| johnx | something is waaay odd with that | 13:26 |
| rm_you | so how would i get it to go back to software encoding quickly for comparisons | 13:26 |
| lardman | rename the dsp task | 13:26 |
| rm_you | rename the sbcenc.o file? | 13:26 |
| lardman | yep | 13:26 |
| rm_you | from your line way up | 13:26 |
| rm_you | k | 13:26 |
| rm_you | where is that? | 13:27 |
| lardman | it switches back to sw method whenever the dsp fails | 13:27 |
| lardman | /lib/dsp/modules | 13:27 |
| * lcuk yawns and stretches, looks at the time and smiles | 13:27 | |
| atul | lbt: timelyx: http://pastebin.ca/1064524 This is gconf output | 13:28 |
| Jaffa | Yay, maemo-community open. | 13:31 |
| lbt | ok, it reinstalled gconf (but then failed to find gconftool-2)... hmm now run: fakeroot apt-get -f install | 13:31 |
| atul | lbt: it is failing with this message http://pastebin.ca/1064526 | 13:32 |
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| lbt | that looks very screwed - I'm going to suggest that you reinstall the _86 scratchbox. | 13:40 |
| atul | k | 13:40 |
| atul | lbt: ok | 13:40 |
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| lardman | X-Fade: thanks for the front page bump :) | 13:45 |
| Italodance | lardman | 13:45 |
| Italodance | rm_you | 13:46 |
| Italodance | johnx | 13:46 |
| Italodance | hi guys | 13:46 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Your efforts deserve attention. Although next time, take a few seconds to actually write a few lines about what you did ;) | 13:46 |
| lardman | hi Italodance | 13:46 |
| Italodance | friends ur canola 9 loading is slow too? | 13:46 |
| lardman | X-Fade: just posted to the list | 13:46 |
| johnx | Italodance, it takes about 30 seconds here | 13:46 |
| Italodance | johnx me too :( so it's for all | 13:47 |
| johnx | it's a big program | 13:47 |
| Italodance | johnx also some videos get freeze | 13:47 |
| Italodance | for the play and run | 13:47 |
| lardman | X-Fade: I just editted it to say "Diablo only" so it've gone from the front page. Sorry! | 13:47 |
| lardman | I really can't type | 13:48 |
| Italodance | btw friend my problem is solved forever https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1896 :D finally nokia fixed it for me and my country :D | 13:48 |
| johnx | Italodance, I'm glad to hear that :D | 13:49 |
| lardman | dneary: maemo-community isn't mentioned here http://maemo.org/community/mailing-lists/ | 13:50 |
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| dneary | lardman: indeed | 13:51 |
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| lcuk | is the verisign certificate self signed for : svn checkout --username me https://garage.maemo.org/svn/liqbase ? | 13:56 |
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| X-Fade | lcuk: No, there should be a proper certificate for that? | 13:57 |
| aquatix | ey, lcuk, did you release a .deb btw? | 13:57 |
| lcuk | Error validating server certificate for 'https://garage.maemo.org:443': | 13:57 |
| lcuk | - The certificate is not issued by a trusted authority. Use the | 13:57 |
| lcuk | fingerprint to validate the certificate manually! | 13:57 |
| * aquatix will download the tarball otherwise | 13:57 | |
| lcuk | no aquatix im trying to get svn working | 13:57 |
| aquatix | ah, kk :) | 13:58 |
| aquatix | don't rush | 13:58 |
| lcuk | ~lart svn | 13:58 |
| * infobot slaps svn upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh | 13:58 | |
| lcuk | lbt, i got git working easier than all this .. | 13:59 |
| lcuk | is it possible its my 810 that cannot validate the certificate? | 13:59 |
| aquatix | lcuk: hm, firefox doesn't complain here | 13:59 |
| aquatix | could be indeed | 13:59 |
| johnx | possibly svn doesn't have the root certificate but firefox does | 14:04 |
| aquatix | not using the global certificate store? | 14:06 |
| johnx | all I know is that I always have problems like that with svn | 14:07 |
| X-Fade | Or the intermediate certificate that verisign requires. | 14:07 |
| lcuk | it doesnt complain if i open in the browser on my device either, hmm | 14:08 |
| johnx | one problem with a2dp: I tend to put my n800 someplace while wearing my a2dp headphones and though the music continues I forget where I put my tablet O_o | 14:14 |
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| lardman | johnx: triangulation, walk in different directions and measure when the music stops ;) | 14:15 |
| johnx | it's affected most by solid objects it seems | 14:15 |
| lcuk | ok, i checked out the bare version. i copied all the source files into that folder, i did svn add, now i am trying to commit. lardman, when you commit which folder are you in and what command line do you run? | 14:16 |
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| lardman | lcuk: if you just do "svn commit" it commits everything you checked out | 14:16 |
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| lardman | that has changed of course | 14:17 |
| lardman | otherwise you can do "svn commit ./some_dir -m "blah"" | 14:17 |
| lcuk | ahhhh, so i dont mention where i want to commit it to | 14:18 |
| lbt | lcuk: of course... git is the solution to svn :) | 14:18 |
| lardman | no, it knows that already | 14:18 |
| lcuk | i hope so, lemme see | 14:18 |
| lcuk | david, agree entirely, even i got it to work :D | 14:18 |
| lcuk | did this just ask for *my* root password, or for garages?: | 14:19 |
| lcuk | Nokia-N810-50-2:/media/mmc1/liqbase# svn commit -m "initial upload" | 14:19 |
| lcuk | Authentication realm: <https://garage.maemo.org:443> Subversion User Authentication | 14:19 |
| lcuk | Password for 'root': | 14:19 |
| lardman | it shouldn't need either | 14:20 |
| lardman | unless your files are owned by root perhaps | 14:20 |
| johnx | won't it want his garage user's password? | 14:20 |
| lcuk | its asking that now john | 14:21 |
| lardman | johnx: not after the first checkout | 14:21 |
| lcuk | it asked for root, then my username then my userpass | 14:21 |
| lardman | ah ok | 14:21 |
| johnx | very strange | 14:21 |
| * lcuk doesnt know his pass yet | 14:21 | |
| * lcuk cries at his total ineptitude | 14:22 | |
| lardman | we all join him ;p | 14:22 |
| * keesj first looks up what ineptitude is | 14:23 | |
| lcuk | phhht:P all i ever wanted to do was code and play | 14:23 |
| lcuk | omg its "adding ..." | 14:24 |
| johnx | lcuk, you need to hire an intern or something | 14:24 |
| lcuk | i agree | 14:24 |
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| lcuk | i dont think my current boss would though | 14:25 |
| lcuk | Transmitting file data ................................................ | 14:25 |
| lcuk | Committed revision 1. | 14:25 |
| johnx | nice | 14:26 |
| * lcuk breathes once again | 14:26 | |
| lardman | lcuk: from now on it's nice and easy | 14:26 |
| lcuk | i hope so, im gonna add that to my nightly script | 14:27 |
| aquatix | johnx: what a2dp headset do you have btw? | 14:27 |
| *** lardman is now known as lardman|afk | 14:27 | |
| johnx | motorola HT820 | 14:27 |
| johnx | kinda old now, I think it's essentially the 2nd generation of bt headphones | 14:27 |
| johnx | and doesn't exactly work great with glasses :/ | 14:28 |
| aquatix | ah :) | 14:28 |
| aquatix | good sound though? | 14:28 |
| johnx | yeah, as good as a2dp can do | 14:28 |
| johnx | it even has a little jack so I can use it wired | 14:28 |
| johnx | sounds noticeably better wired | 14:28 |
| aquatix | hm | 14:28 |
| * aquatix sticks with wired then | 14:29 | |
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| johnx | it is nice in some situations where wires just get in the way | 14:29 |
| aquatix | btw, when using svn on my n810, i always get some error message about a lock file or something failing | 14:29 |
| aquatix | johnx: true | 14:29 |
| johnx | but I like my $8 toshiba wrap arounds better for comfort... | 14:29 |
| * aquatix loves his sennheiser px200 | 14:29 | |
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| johnx | yeah, if you're a real audiophile a2dp isn't really an option I would assume | 14:30 |
| aquatix | well, i'm not a real audiophile [not having silver speaker cables and such], but i like good sound | 14:31 |
| aquatix | a2dp doesn't have a lot of bandwidth i think | 14:31 |
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| johnx | and it's limited because the encoding/decoding has to happen in realtime on embedded devices so it's optmized for simplicity not sound quality | 14:32 |
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| johnx | there are headphones that accept mp3s directly, which would be the way to go, but I don't even know if desktop linux supports that | 14:32 |
| aquatix | hm, that sounds better indeed | 14:33 |
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| johnx | of course, then you're just a short distance away from just getting a pair of headphones with integrated mp3 player... | 14:34 |
| lcuk | so now that i have added the files, if i build and reupload it wont know that there are new files (like the *.o etc) | 14:34 |
| aquatix | johnx: myeah, i prefer general use headphones | 14:35 |
| aquatix | and i have ogg too | 14:35 |
| aquatix | and movies :) | 14:35 |
| Italodance | where can i find atabake at my n800 dir? | 14:38 |
| johnx | /home/user/.atabake | 14:39 |
| Italodance | johnx i want without x-term want to find it by emelfm2 | 14:40 |
| johnx | it's still in the same place | 14:40 |
| Italodance | ok tnx | 14:40 |
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| Italodance | johnx> can it louder? http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Boost_Canola_Volume | 14:47 |
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| johnx | I don't know. I have loud headphones. :) | 14:48 |
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| lardman | I agree with it sounding strange | 14:50 |
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| johnx | yeah, it seems to slow down sometimes right before skipping | 14:50 |
| lardman | I was wondering if that was my encoder or the codec itself, sounds the same as the old ARM encoder did though | 14:51 |
| johnx | but cpu-sbc has the same problem from time to time | 14:51 |
| johnx | now the weird thing is I don't see this happening on my zaurus | 14:51 |
| lardman | the skipping? | 14:51 |
| lcuk | lardman, is it possible to do an audio diff (even using an FFT to visualise and see where yours differs from the other algorithm? | 14:51 |
| lardman | try bumping the governor to performance | 14:51 |
| johnx | or the weird slowdown / deeper sound | 14:52 |
| johnx | lardman, I already did | 14:52 |
| lardman | lcuk: probably yes | 14:52 |
| johnx | it won't matter for sbc-dsp anyways | 14:52 |
| lardman | lcuk: ah, mine doesn't differ, it produces the same output as the ARM encoder | 14:52 |
| lardman | johnx: I wonder if that's just part of the codec | 14:52 |
| lardman | johnx: would be interesting to play with the bit pool & other settings and see what sounds best | 14:53 |
| johnx | well, like I said, it doesn't happen on the zaurus...which should be slower | 14:53 |
| lardman | what version of Bluez? | 14:53 |
| Italodance | well finally Boost Canola Volume rule can do it louder? | 14:53 |
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| lcuk | johnx, is it possible other apps are taking cpu time away - ive noticed it with various things and know liqbase can judder occasionally | 14:53 |
| johnx | lcuk, I've sat there with htop open | 14:54 |
| johnx | it honestly seems like somehow buffer and period size that mplayer is getting is the same on zaurus and desktop and *different* on the tablet | 14:54 |
| lcuk | johnx, ive tried that also, theres some sort of heartbeat within the nokia which causes a short cpu spike every ~ 1/3 second it never registers as a high task on top but i know its there | 14:55 |
| Italodance | http://nit.psykosis.net/Milkytracker-0.90.80-1_all.deb HUH! | 14:55 |
| johnx | lcuk, but if it has enough buffer it shouldn't be affected | 14:55 |
| lardman | johnx: exactly | 14:55 |
| lcuk | agreed actually | 14:55 |
| lardman | johnx: you using the same version of Bluz on the Zaurus? | 14:56 |
| johnx | and I can push my zaurus to swapping without a2dp being affected because of that buffer | 14:56 |
| lardman | and which Zaurus model? | 14:56 |
| johnx | C1000 pxa270 | 14:56 |
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| lardman | Angstrom? | 14:56 |
| johnx | and debian | 14:56 |
| johnx | both | 14:56 |
| lardman | I'll build an image for my c750 and do some comparison testing | 14:56 |
| johnx | let me test right now and see how it behaves in angstrom | 14:57 |
| lardman | lcuk: what have you done?! Garage is soooo slooow | 14:57 |
| lardman | ;) | 14:57 |
| lcuk | oh crap, i told you this would happen | 14:58 |
| * lcuk reboots the internet | 14:58 | |
| lcuk | sorry folks, save your work for a minute | 14:58 |
| pupnik | lol | 14:59 |
| lcuk | pupnik :) rev 1 of liqbase is parked in the garage | 14:59 |
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| lcuk | do i stop and rest now, or does it all speed up even more? | 15:00 |
| * lardman wonders where the bitpool, freq, subbands, etc are set in Bluez and whether they have those values for any particular reason | 15:01 | |
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| * lardman will do some grepping when he heads home for lunch | 15:01 | |
| crashanddie | lcuk, define all | 15:01 |
| lcuk | hey crap, the internet is broken | 15:02 |
| lardman | johnx: I'll be back on in ~10min, let me know then will you | 15:02 |
| aquatix | my internet works fine! too bad it's so small... | 15:02 |
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| lcuk | moar code, moar modules, moar support | 15:03 |
| johnx | k, I'll do some testing | 15:03 |
| lcuk | morning crashanddie by the way, i see you have reregistered :) | 15:03 |
| crashanddie | yeah, I did | 15:03 |
| aquatix | lcuk: next revision is only diffs, so it should commit faster | 15:04 |
| * aquatix quite likes svn | 15:04 | |
| lcuk | yer aquatix ive just done a quick revision already to see | 15:04 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, you using git to commit to svn ? | 15:04 |
| lcuk | no, i have used svn, but git was working first and was simpler to setup local branches and manage between them and seemed more ummm logical | 15:05 |
| lcuk | but that might just have been first shop syndrome | 15:05 |
| crashanddie | well | 15:06 |
| crashanddie | I have spent hours understanding how svn worked, first time I used it | 15:06 |
| crashanddie | trying to setup repos, and stuff | 15:06 |
| * robtaylor uses git-svn for all his svn trees | 15:06 | |
| crashanddie | with git... git init | 15:06 |
| crashanddie | done | 15:06 |
| lcuk | its right, its on now, ill cross whichever bridges are required when i come to them | 15:06 |
| lcuk | now, next step: packaging.. | 15:07 |
| lcuk | well, after work that is | 15:07 |
| crashanddie | garage still shows 0 svn updates/adds | 15:07 |
| lcuk | https://garage.maemo.org/svn/liqbase/ | 15:08 |
| lcuk | it shouldnt | 15:08 |
| crashanddie | oh, I was on the main garage liqbase page | 15:08 |
| forge | :o | 15:08 |
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| lcuk | oh crap! ive put pybook in there :S i best make sure its attributed and im ok to do it | 15:08 |
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| lcuk2 | is a public posting to a forum basically covered by public domain ? | 15:14 |
| johnx | you mean if you post to a forum are your words automatically considered "public domain"? | 15:15 |
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| johnx | in the US you have an automatic copyright on anything you write, but that wasn't always the case | 15:15 |
| lcuk2 | johnx, no - a small python test frontend to liqbase was posted and i accidentally included it in the first svn update | 15:16 |
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| lardman|home | re | 15:16 |
| lcuk2 | ive mailed the guy and am putting attributation headers on it | 15:16 |
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| lcuk2 | its not mine and its his decision what to do with it | 15:16 |
| lcuk2 | but i dont think svn will allow me to vape from all revisions | 15:17 |
| johnx | lcuk2, yeah, it's under his copyright, but if it's a derivative of your GPLed code it's automatically GPLed | 15:17 |
| lcuk2 | no johnx, all it does is calls liqbase with params | 15:17 |
| lardman|home | lcuk2: what code is this? | 15:17 |
| * johnx is not a lawyer of course... | 15:17 | |
| lcuk2 | someone wrote a python file selector for liqbase :) | 15:18 |
| * lardman|home crosses fingers that BT dongle won't cause kernel panic | 15:18 | |
| lardman|home | lcuk2: ah, ok | 15:18 |
| johnx | lcuk2, alright, not derivative, but I highly doubt it will become an issue | 15:18 |
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| lcuk2 | no i dont either, am just making sure | 15:18 |
| lcuk2 | ive mailed him anyway :) | 15:19 |
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| pekuja | that's a polite thing to do in any case | 15:19 |
| lcuk2 | it may be better anyway if it does stay, i have been wondering how to do file selectors ;) | 15:19 |
| jott | hey lcuk2 congratulations for release the source! | 15:19 |
| lcuk2 | jott :) | 15:19 |
| herwood | hi | 15:19 |
| herwood | robtaylor: are you online? | 15:20 |
| lcuk2 | right, ive got to get to a client site in a bit, so ill vanish | 15:20 |
| johnx | lardman|home, testing under debian/n800 and then angstrom/c1000 | 15:20 |
| lcuk2 | but if anyone can think of a way for me to build packages on the device (and maybe perhaps possibly talk me through later) it would be good :D | 15:21 |
| lardman|home | johnx: I might have missed your reply, what version of bluez-utils does Angstrom/Debian use atm? | 15:21 |
| johnx | lcuk2, what are you using for a build system now? makefiles? autoconf? plain gcc? | 15:21 |
| johnx | debian is on latest | 15:21 |
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| johnx | angstrom 2007 is on 3.23 I believe | 15:22 |
| johnx | checks | 15:22 |
| lcuk2 | johnx, makefile | 15:22 |
| lcuk2 | i cant get autoconf on device | 15:22 |
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| jott | lcuk2: you could add the diablo/sdk or chinook/sdk repository and install "dpkg-dev" | 15:25 |
| johnx | definitely look at how much apt-get wants to install before you let it install though | 15:26 |
| lcuk2 | holy moly! thats an extra 28mb | 15:26 |
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| johnx | time to boot from SD or get into scratchbox | 15:26 |
| lcuk2 | if a package was created elsewhere is there a short refresh contents method which i could just rebuild existing package with? | 15:28 |
| lcuk2 | ie do the heavy config in scratchbox, then just dailies can be done on device | 15:28 |
| jott | lcuk2: you could always build a package manually.. | 15:28 |
| lcuk2 | but i really must go, ill read back later | 15:28 |
| lcuk2 | i might have to jott | 15:28 |
| lardman|home | lcuk2: with a bit of time you could write a script to package it like the makeipkg scripts of old | 15:28 |
| jott | but it can get messy quite fast | 15:28 |
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| johnx | which would pretty much exclude it from extras :/ | 15:29 |
| lcuk_out | khertan will know about this lot.. | 15:29 |
| lcuk_out | he has a packager for the device | 15:29 |
| lcuk_out | thanks guys anyway - back later | 15:31 |
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| lardman|home | hmm, how do you BT pair with Ubuntu? | 15:36 |
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| lardman|home | silly question | 15:37 |
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| lardman|home | hmm, perhaps not so silly | 15:42 |
| lardman|home | any thoughts as to how to pair a bt headset with ubuntu? | 15:42 |
| johnx | I can tell you in a sec... | 15:42 |
| aquatix | lardman|home: erm, start the bluetooth-applet | 15:43 |
| aquatix | rightclick | 15:43 |
| aquatix | devices [or settings or whatev] | 15:43 |
| aquatix | discover? | 15:43 |
| lardman|home | hmm, yeah, I tried that, no luck | 15:43 |
| lardman|home | I just tried "hcitool scan" and no reply either | 15:43 |
| aquatix | is it discoverable? | 15:44 |
| lardman|home | yep, set on pair mode | 15:44 |
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| aquatix | weird | 15:44 |
| lardman|home | hmm, I'm wondering if there's something up with the Ubuntu BT connection | 15:45 |
| lardman|home | I'll get my N810 and see if it can see that | 15:45 |
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| eichi_ | hello | 15:47 |
| lardman|home | hmm, N810 can't see PC, PC can't see anything | 15:48 |
| eichi_ | the default jabber client for maemo has a very strange handling with the "buddy list", not equal to all the other jabber clients i know | 15:48 |
| johnx | lardman|home, worked first try here. I just put headphones in pairing mode, made a .asoundrc and did mplayer -ao alsa:device=bluetooth | 15:48 |
| lardman|home | johnx: I used your script on Ubuntu | 15:48 |
| johnx | heh | 15:48 |
| johnx | interesting idea | 15:48 |
| johnx | aaah...you might not want to | 15:49 |
| johnx | it mucks with the bluetooth settings in /etc/bluetooth | 15:49 |
| johnx | it does make backups though | 15:49 |
| lardman|home | does it restore the backups if I uninstall it? | 15:50 |
| johnx | I ... think so | 15:50 |
| johnx | it's been a long time since I wrote it | 15:50 |
| lardman|home | :) | 15:50 |
| johnx | angstrom-distribution.org seems to be down so I can't get the packages I need for my zaurus... | 15:51 |
| johnx | still, I'll test on Debian/N800 at least | 15:51 |
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| lardman|home | ok, uninstalled & moved original file back, now I can see things at least ;) | 15:55 |
| johnx | ah, BTW, your sbc-dsp code doesn't seem to work on my desktop either. I guess we're even :D | 15:56 |
| lardman|home | lol | 15:56 |
| lardman|home | you need a dsp emulator ;) | 15:56 |
| lardman|home | right, so it's seen and bound now, but I've still not had to put in the passcode | 15:57 |
| johnx | hmm | 15:57 |
| johnx | well, just try mplayer and see what happens | 15:57 |
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| lardman|home | nothing, the headset is still in pairing mode too | 15:58 |
| johnx | ok, then it's not paired yet | 15:58 |
| lardman|home | well it's "Bonded" | 15:58 |
| lardman|home | not sure how to get it to ask for a code | 15:59 |
| johnx | I just put mine in pairing mode and played to it with mplayer | 15:59 |
| johnx | a little popup appeared asking for a code | 15:59 |
| lardman|home | hmm, no such luck here | 16:01 |
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| herwood | has anyone ever implemented other dbus service's interface, like here: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/connectivity/osso-obexsrv/trunk/README | 16:02 |
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| johnx | lardman|home, hcitool cc <your headphones> | 16:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Interesting. Why maemo.org/downloads instead of downloads.maemo.org, X-Fade? | 16:03 |
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| lardman|home | just hangs | 16:04 |
| johnx | when it popped up the code thing it did it behind a window for me | 16:04 |
| lardman|home | no, I've checked that | 16:05 |
| lardman|home | the hcitool cc times out | 16:05 |
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| johnx | maybe try restarting your bluetooth system | 16:06 |
| lardman|home | bt applet preferences shows the headset is Bonded and connected, I can't even delete it | 16:06 |
| johnx | sudo /etc/init.d/bluetooth restart | 16:06 |
| lardman|home | I've restarted already a few times | 16:06 |
| johnx | hmm | 16:06 |
| lardman|home | which way does the trust go, does the headset remember the computer's MAC? | 16:07 |
| johnx | yes | 16:07 |
| johnx | the trust goes both ways | 16:07 |
| johnx | between a phone and computer instead of a 0000 keycode you'd pick a unique keycode on both | 16:07 |
| lardman|home | and both would remember that somewhere? | 16:08 |
| lardman|home | where? | 16:08 |
| johnx | I don't really know | 16:08 |
| johnx | hang on | 16:08 |
| johnx | my first guess is /var/lib/bluetooth/<mac>/ | 16:09 |
| lardman|home | that only has my PC's BT dongle MAC | 16:10 |
| lardman|home | I might try setting a default pin in hcid.conf | 16:10 |
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| lardman|home | no luck their either :( | 16:13 |
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| lardman|home | s/their/there | 16:14 |
| lardman|home | oops | 16:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Let's see, alternative OSes for the NITs. Debian, Mamona, Poky, Ubuntu, . . . | 16:14 |
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| keesj | many alternatives but only on solution :p | 16:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | No, I agree. ;) | 16:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | But I'm documenting them on the wiki. | 16:16 |
| keesj | how is the official one called? | 16:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Official wiki or official OS? | 16:16 |
| keesj | ITOS right | 16:17 |
| lardman|home | argh, it's broken on my N810 now too | 16:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maemo, actually. | 16:17 |
| johnx | lardman|home, it can only pair to one at a time | 16:17 |
| johnx | on the tablet you'll have to re-pair | 16:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | keesj, https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_brand#Definitions | 16:17 |
| RST38h | heh, two days pass - and the same people are still here!:) | 16:17 |
| keesj | RST38h: read all about it on http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/all | 16:18 |
| lardman|home | johnx: ok | 16:18 |
| lardman|home | argh, still not working | 16:19 |
| lardman|home | ~lart BT on Linux for being a pita | 16:19 |
| * infobot makes a balloon animal out of BT on Linux for being a pita | 16:19 | |
| timeless | err, pita tastes good... | 16:20 |
| lardman|home | :) | 16:20 |
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| johnx | lardman|home, remove the device listing in maemo, put your headset into pairing mode, pair on maemo | 16:20 |
| RST38h | I wonder why would tele2 gprs mess with control sequences in ssh... | 16:21 |
| RST38h | this should not be happening right? | 16:21 |
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| johnx | control sequences? as in keystrokes sent over ssh? | 16:22 |
| timeless | data:text/html,<img width=500 src="http://maemo.org/midcom-serveattachmentguid-5ab5ffd8133411ddb240c1c7cae3ae58ae58/avatar_thumbnail"> | 16:22 |
| lardman|home | johnx: done that, re-paired, rebooted, still not working | 16:22 |
| timeless | could someone tell me what that's a picture of? | 16:22 |
| johnx | is mplayer hanging on maemo or are you getting an error? | 16:22 |
| RST38h | johnx: yes | 16:22 |
| johnx | RST38h, that should not be happening | 16:23 |
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| RST38h | weird crap. | 16:23 |
| lardman|home | an error, Unknown PCM bluetooth and then a few more | 16:23 |
| robtaylor | herwood: am now | 16:24 |
| RST38h | on the other hand, I have internet now. Isnt it wonderful?:) | 16:24 |
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| lardman|home | hmm, a2dp disable has enabled it | 16:24 |
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| lardman|home | slightly worrying ;) | 16:24 |
| RST38h | maybe it is a toggle? | 16:25 |
| lardman|home | back to work | 16:25 |
| lardman|home | dunno, johnx? | 16:25 |
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| johnx | a2dp toggle should be the toggle | 16:25 |
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| johnx | but it's also possible my script is broken | 16:25 |
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| jott | timeless: looks like an animal skull (mask) and very long claws | 16:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, V for Vendetta http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434409/ | 16:29 |
| jott | ah | 16:29 |
| timeless | thanks | 16:29 |
| jott | pixelwar | 16:29 |
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| GeneralAntilles | shit. . . . | 16:31 |
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| jott | i feel offended :P | 16:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just finished writing up the alternative oses page and I hit cmd-w in the wrong damn application. | 16:32 |
| johnx | ugh | 16:32 |
| jott | gna | 16:32 |
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| * GeneralAntilles starts over. | 16:33 | |
| GeneralAntilles | That's why you should do your editing it a text editor, folks. ;) | 16:33 |
| johnx | that's why I have firefox keep the post buffer (?) for closed windows | 16:33 |
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| timeless | you need to install undo reboot device :) | 16:34 |
| wnd | I always wanted embedded vim in gecko... | 16:35 |
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| nomis | wnd: http://gpl.internetconnection.net/vi/ | 16:36 |
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| herwood | robtaylor: I'm still having problems with the dbus thing and I was wondering that could you still give me a couple of tips? | 16:36 |
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| wnd | nomis, I meant using vim in arbitrary textarea. besides that thing failed to do the first thing I tried. it looks nice, though. :-) | 16:39 |
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| wnd | not even dG works as it should | 16:42 |
| aquatix | wms: http://www.developernotes.com/post/Vim-2b-Firefox-3d-Vimperator.aspx ? | 16:42 |
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| pekuja | I neve | 16:43 |
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| wnd | iirc vimperator didn't affect text editing, only parts of navigation and rendering | 16:43 |
| nomis | wnd: dG works for me. | 16:44 |
| * aquatix remembers having vim embedded in a textarea | 16:44 | |
| aquatix | or something like that | 16:44 |
| wnd | for me it also deletes line above the cursor | 16:44 |
| nomis | wnd: oh, right. | 16:45 |
| wnd | and "x" doesn't work properly in visual mode | 16:45 |
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| * Stskeeps returns to the internets | 16:46 | |
| aquatix | wms: ah, something like this: http://marc-abramowitz.com/archives/2005/04/27/editing-firefox-textareas-with-vim/ | 16:46 |
| wnd | title looks promising | 16:47 |
| pekuja | why do you need that? | 16:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Alright, it's done: https://wiki.maemo.org/Alternative_operating_systems | 16:47 |
| pekuja | hmmm | 16:47 |
| pekuja | actually, I guess it would be pretty handy for writing blog posts and such | 16:47 |
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| wnd | I figured that gecko-based vim was exactly what I needed when I was using web-based forums more often | 16:49 |
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| wnd | and as for weblogs, I ended up writing my own set of weblogging scripts so that I could write and edit entries with vim, and publish things from command line | 16:50 |
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| pekuja | wnd, great :-) | 16:51 |
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| pekuja | but yeah, web-based forums would be one, if you write a lot of posts | 16:52 |
| lardman | johnx: ok | 16:52 |
| pekuja | or write really long posts | 16:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oooh, new maemo.org profiles going up today. | 16:52 |
| Jaffa | Shiny | 16:52 |
| lardman | johnx: I'll probably grab an Angstrom image and test on mu c750, save breaking my build computer :) | 16:52 |
| timeless | gan: eh? | 16:52 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Installing it right now ;) | 16:52 |
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| GeneralAntilles | http://www.screencast.com/users/bergie/folders/Jing/media/5dbd54fd-e33e-43c6-ba5b-94ef5e46650f | 16:53 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: me want the shiny | 16:53 |
| timeless | requires js | 16:53 |
| * timeless no like | 16:53 | |
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| johnx | lardman, sounds good, but angstrom-distribution.org appears down | 16:54 |
| JamieBennett | profiles look good | 16:54 |
| lardman | johnx: no great rush | 16:54 |
| johnx | nm, word is it should be back | 16:54 |
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| lardman | johnx: works for me.... | 16:54 |
| johnx | yeah, just came back | 16:54 |
| lardman | :) | 16:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe, IRC nick field + http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ == karma whoring? | 16:55 |
| lardman | I plan to patch their version of bluez-utils to spit out the data about the freq, bitpool size, subbands, etc. that they are trying to encode, see if they are the same as ours | 16:55 |
| * GeneralAntilles laughs maniacally. | 16:55 | |
| * Jaffa grins | 16:56 | |
| timeless | only one irc name? | 16:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 16:56 |
| lardman | johnx: you use a CF BT card I assume? | 16:56 |
| johnx | usb actually | 16:56 |
| lardman | ah, ok | 16:56 |
| johnx | the cheapest one I could fine years ago :) | 16:56 |
| lardman | I'll have to dig out my CF card and try to remember the incantations to get it working | 16:57 |
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| * timeless rotfl | 16:57 | |
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| timeless | the error accessing internal.maemo.org at the end is great | 16:57 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timeless, it'll only be another 8 months to get multiple IRC nicks. ;) | 16:58 |
| wnd | oh the joy. firefoo can actually start vim to allow easy editing for textareas. :-) | 16:58 |
| wnd | of textareas, even | 16:59 |
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| robtaylor | herwood: it might be best to ask on #dbus | 17:00 |
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| herwood | robtaylor: ok | 17:06 |
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| * johnx sleeps | 17:16 | |
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| Mikho | hmm, I wonder if there's something wrong in me. For a brief second I considered using vim or emacs | 17:22 |
| Mikho | after realizing the automatic word wrap feature in pico is actually extremely annoying in some cases | 17:22 |
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| johnx | Mikho, use joe | 17:25 |
| johnx | that's where I went after pico | 17:25 |
| johnx | before ending up in vi | 17:25 |
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| johnx | lardman|afk, tested a2dp in angstrom, got around 20-25% CPU usage at 416MHz, got the same skips and slowdowns as in a2dp on the n800, so I guess it is just problem of low speed CPUs being asked too much | 17:26 |
| johnx | buffersize was the same as os2008, period size was 1024 | 17:27 |
| * johnx really sleeps | 17:27 | |
| Mikho | hmm, maybe I will | 17:29 |
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| timeless | jaffa: ping :) | 17:38 |
| timeless | (and gan) | 17:38 |
| timeless | i'm finally working on the next release notes | 17:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Woo | 17:38 |
| timeless | any preference for how to see things? | 17:39 |
| lardman|afk | johnx: ok, thanks | 17:39 |
| timeless | i can work from a docs.google text file and you can watch as i go | 17:39 |
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| timeless | in which case there'd be no links in it, not normal anyway | 17:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | No preference, whatever works for you. | 17:39 |
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| timeless | gan: share w/ jaffa | 17:43 |
| timeless | note that it's going to take a while... | 17:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Good god | 17:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | I can see why. . . . | 17:44 |
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| timeless | then there's thhe minor detail that i have to strip out all the internal links... | 17:46 |
| timeless | nice | 17:47 |
| timeless | now i just get to figure out if a given patch is live or dead | 17:48 |
| timeless | that's annoying, the patch seems alive | 17:48 |
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| * timeless sighs | 17:50 | |
| timeless | i hate this part :) | 17:50 |
| timeless | the bug i'm looking at was "fixed" in chinook by backing out a certain fix | 17:50 |
| timeless | but it seems that they managed to "resolve" the bug somehow for diablo and recommit some fix for the other thign | 17:51 |
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| jahor | hi, please i could not found it on the web now ... could be saved configuration from chinook restored in diablo ? ... after flashing to diablo and restoring configuration, my n810 is very unstable and reboots too often | 17:57 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Corrupt internal card? | 17:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | There really shouldn't be a lot of issues with restoring a Chinook backup on Diablo. | 17:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | But internal card corruption + virtual memory is a big cause of instability and reboots. | 17:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Especially with the N810, as the internal card basically ships corrupted. | 17:58 |
| X-Fade | New profiles are active :) | 17:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ooh | 17:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Purtp | 17:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/Purtp/Purty/ | 17:59 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: Purty | 17:59 |
| vegai | so, Android runs on N810 | 18:01 |
| vegai | I hear | 18:01 |
| timeless | bugzilla_reported has no content: http://maemo.org/profile/view/timeless/ | 18:01 |
| qwerty12 | Ahh, that reminds me, I've got to release my touchscreen working kernel for N800 too :) | 18:02 |
| X-Fade | timeless: True, that plugin doesn't provide links yet. | 18:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nor does discussion. | 18:02 |
| X-Fade | Same thing ;) | 18:02 |
| timeless | can someone please explain why http://maemo.org/profile/view/qgil/ lays out differently from mine? | 18:02 |
| X-Fade | Although discussion will show up when the forum feature goes live. | 18:03 |
| timeless | note that i have an avatar and qgil doesn't | 18:03 |
| X-Fade | And qgil should have an avatar too.. | 18:03 |
| timeless | yeah well... | 18:03 |
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| timeless | ignore that :) | 18:03 |
| timeless | oh | 18:03 |
| timeless | hrm | 18:03 |
| * timeless shrugs | 18:04 | |
| timeless | he doesn't :) | 18:04 |
| X-Fade | timeless: I do see it.. | 18:04 |
| timeless | well, i don't :) | 18:04 |
| timeless | and i do see the maemo.org banner at the top | 18:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hrm, under "Publish account details" it says "Username, first and last name are mandatory", but there are checkboxes next to First name and Last name. . . . | 18:05 |
| timeless | yeah welll.. | 18:05 |
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| jahor | GeneralAntilles: ufff that doesn't sound good... i there a good way to find the problem with internal memory corruption ? .... maybe installing syslog and remote logging ? | 18:07 |
| timeless | jahor: fdisk will show it iirc | 18:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://tabletschool.blogspot.com/2008/03/do-you-use-built-in-memory-card-on-n810.html | 18:08 |
| timeless | gan/x-fade: see top of my draft for how i see qgil | 18:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | User rating doesn't seem to work here. . . . | 18:08 |
| jahor | GeneralAntilles: thanx... i read this couple of days before, but didnt think it could be this issue... before diablo it was stable | 18:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | jahor, it may have become corrupted since then. | 18:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | But that's probably the leading cause of system-wide instability. | 18:10 |
| X-Fade | timeless: I see the same. Although the icon works for me. (It is the memcached problem that acts up there) | 18:10 |
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| jahor | GeneralAntilles: thanx alot, i will try to check it | 18:10 |
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| timeless | heh | 18:12 |
| timeless | so now w/ lots of effort, i can find out who's been burrying my stuff :) | 18:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 18:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Track them down and thumb them? :P | 18:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Interesting | 18:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | I guess the itT profile link wants a URL. :D | 18:14 |
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| lardman | hmm, some cool Android apps out there (http://code.google.com/android/images/adc1r1_deck.pdf) | 18:18 |
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| qwerty12 | Lots of these apps won't work on the android that's on itt. | 18:20 |
| lardman | I was just thinking in general | 18:20 |
| qwerty12 | Ah, soz | 18:20 |
| lardman | tho I'll try your package later on :) | 18:20 |
| qwerty12 | Framebuffer is set to automatic by default in that kernel, don't know if it will mess with any of your work :) | 18:21 |
| lardman | I'm not doing much fb work atm, waiting to see what ssvb comes up with | 18:21 |
| * qwerty12 clones my kernel tree and starts to make seperate kernels for N800 and N810 | 18:21 | |
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| * Stskeeps boots up his n800 after a week away from it for more debian/ubuntu tablet hacking. | 18:24 | |
| lardman | qwerty12: why do some apps not run? | 18:25 |
| qwerty12 | It's an old version of the userspace/sdk, the latest runs much more slower, so I'm sticking with the old :) | 18:25 |
| lardman | ok | 18:26 |
| lardman | is it emulated then? | 18:26 |
| qwerty12 | Nah, it runs directly on the device | 18:26 |
| gpd | [offtopic: navman / garmin / tomtom - obvious choice?] | 18:26 |
| lardman | good | 18:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | gpd, I really like the Nüvis | 18:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | But don't have any experience with navman | 18:26 |
| qwerty12 | It uses a loop file system, I ditched it and ran it off a real ext2 partition and the speed was much better. | 18:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | and only a little experience with older TomToms. | 18:27 |
| gpd | [obviously I have an N800 + maemomapper - but this is for a parent] | 18:27 |
| * GeneralAntilles is really bored with having to login all the time at maemo.org | 18:27 | |
| lardman | qwerty12: some really cool ideas for applications in that doc, it's amazing what $25k will do to motivate people :) | 18:27 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: Have FF remember for you | 18:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | gpd, might be worthwhile to drop by Best Buy or something and try them out. | 18:28 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: that way, when you change computer, you can't remember your password :) | 18:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, remembering the information isn't the problem. | 18:28 |
| qwerty12 | lardman, yeah, $25k is great amount though :) | 18:28 |
| gpd | GeneralAntilles: yah - will do - just wondering if there was an obvious choice: eg. TomTom = evil or something | 18:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Having to click "Login" and wait 30 seconds-1 minute is the problem. | 18:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | On every damn page. | 18:28 |
| lardman | qwerty12: some of the location based services are really quite cool | 18:29 |
| lardman | qwerty12: map mash-ups or whatever they're called | 18:29 |
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| lardman | qwerty12: the Yanks seem to have a thing about disasters I see :) | 18:29 |
| qwerty12 | Hehe, CA is on a plate boundary. We aren't but we have to suffer with dodgy weather :P | 18:30 |
| * lardman wonders if Yank is seen as rude by any Americans? | 18:30 | |
| * qwerty12 should have packed a coat, the rain has given me a headache | 18:30 | |
| GeneralAntilles | lol . . . rasta Maemo https://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Maemo.org_logo_contest_lav4you_10.png | 18:30 |
| lardman | Sun's out here for the next 3min at least :p | 18:30 |
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| texel | lardman: eh. It's mildly rude. | 18:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, well, "Yanks" are northerners over here. ;) | 18:31 |
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| texel | About as rude as saying "Oh. It's you." in Japanese. =op | 18:31 |
| lardman | texel: my apologies then | 18:31 |
| timeless | yeah, it depends, i wouldn't assume it meant americans | 18:31 |
| texel | It's no biggie, though. =op | 18:31 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: what are you Southerners called then? | 18:31 |
| timeless | i'd assume it meant the baseball team | 18:31 |
| qwerty12 | I'm guessing Dirty South | 18:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 18:31 |
| texel | Haha | 18:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Depends on the company. ;) | 18:31 |
| texel | Yeah, I suppose someone from the deep south could take offense to that. | 18:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I haven't spent a lot of time up north, though. | 18:32 |
| texel | But the chances of them being in IRC, talking about Nxxx's is rather... remote. =op | 18:32 |
| timeless | is 'texans' a bad answer? :) | 18:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Southerners generally think of them selves as "Southerners" | 18:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, yes. | 18:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Texas != the South | 18:32 |
| texel | Texas == Midwest. | 18:32 |
| texel | South Carolina == South | 18:33 |
| texel | Virginia == South. | 18:33 |
| texel | That area. =op | 18:33 |
| timeless | Maryland == South | 18:33 |
| timeless | technically.... | 18:33 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Thumbs on users fixed. | 18:33 |
| derf | _Parts_ of Virginia == South. | 18:33 |
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| derf | And no part of Maryland is the South anymore. | 18:34 |
| qwerty12 | ATL = South (aka the reference to Dirty South - Always hear it in American RnB :)) | 18:34 |
| timeless | derf: historically it was South of the Mason Dixon line | 18:34 |
| timeless | the only line that ever really mattered :( | 18:34 |
| qwerty12 | s/ATL/GA | 18:34 |
| derf | timeless: Sure. But there are currently no Southerners there. | 18:34 |
| texel | Hm. I think derf's referring to "South" in a cultural way. | 18:34 |
| lardman | Were the south the confederates? | 18:34 |
| qwerty12 | Some countries | 18:34 |
| lbt | I thought anything south of Watford wus suveners.... | 18:34 |
| lardman | Oxford! | 18:35 |
| timeless | derf: if you go into the other counties (away from DC, Baltimore), i think you can find plantations and things | 18:35 |
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| texel | qwerty12: s/countries/states/ ? | 18:35 |
| timeless | but yes, in general, it isn't really "south" these days | 18:35 |
| qwerty12 | texel, yes, doh | 18:35 |
| texel | Hehe | 18:35 |
| texel | Though back during the civil war they might have considered those regions "countries" | 18:35 |
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| timeless | lardman: technically no | 18:35 |
| texel | Since they claimed to have seceeded. | 18:35 |
| timeless | South was Mason Dixon line | 18:35 |
| qwerty12 | (me isn't used to states, unless you count Ireland and Wales & Scotland in some sort of way :P) | 18:35 |
| timeless | and mostly meant whether slavery was accepted or not | 18:35 |
| texel | Hehehe | 18:36 |
| timeless | the interesting bit of trivia there is that the last state to free slaves was MD | 18:36 |
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| timeless | because Lincoln freed the slaves in the secessionist states first | 18:36 |
| timeless | it's a neat trick, freeing slaves in states you don't control :) | 18:37 |
| texel | qwerty12: heh -- I can understand that. Though /techinically/ the way the EU and the US are organized, the terms /could/ be used interchangably. | 18:37 |
| timeless | but that didn't apply to MD, because it remained in the union | 18:37 |
| timeless | so slaves there had to wait for the war to end | 18:37 |
| texel | In reality, each state is essentially it's own "country" that has agreed to accept oversight of a federal government. | 18:37 |
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| timeless | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_Proclamation | 18:38 |
| qwerty12 | any states with legalised weed? | 18:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol . . . | 18:38 |
| texel | qwerty12: only one I know of, and that's only for medicinal purposes. =op | 18:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12 really does have a one-track mind. | 18:38 |
| texel | .ca.us | 18:38 |
| qwerty12 | w00t, here I come :P | 18:38 |
| texel | Haha | 18:38 |
| texel | qwerty12: got glaucoma? =op | 18:38 |
| qwerty12 | I have now! | 18:38 |
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| * texel falls over | 18:38 | |
| GeneralAntilles | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Map-of-US-state-medical-marijuana-laws.png | 18:39 |
| * timeless shrugs | 18:39 | |
| timeless | technically Countries can be termed "States" | 18:39 |
| texel | Oooh. | 18:39 |
| texel | Good find, GeneralAntilles | 18:39 |
| timeless | the "State of Israel" | 18:39 |
| texel | Right. | 18:39 |
| texel | That's what I meant. =o) | 18:39 |
| Proteous | the "State of confusion" | 18:39 |
| Proteous | that is where I live | 18:39 |
| qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles, ta, I think I'm in love ^-^ | 18:40 |
| qwerty12 | (with the weed states that is) | 18:40 |
| texel | The term "state" was used instead of "country" because the idea was the whole main contenent was supposed to be the "country" in a different sense. =op | 18:40 |
| timeless | wow, i didn't realize how many states were in there | 18:40 |
| texel | manifest destiny and all that. =op | 18:40 |
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| texel | Wow. DIdn't realize NY was legalized. | 18:40 |
| tank-man | for midicinal uses | 18:41 |
| texel | Right. | 18:41 |
| tank-man | means shit to normal people | 18:41 |
| texel | Heh | 18:41 |
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| texel | Well, it means quite a bit to those who have glaucoma. =op | 18:41 |
| * qwerty12 puts my hands up | 18:41 | |
| qwerty12 | or rather his :/ | 18:42 |
| texel | Personally, the "war on drugs" is such a waste of time. =o( | 18:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^ | 18:42 |
| texel | And money. =o( | 18:42 |
| texel | And D.A.R.E. is a freaking joke. =op | 18:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | One of the more impressive scams perpetrated on the American public. | 18:42 |
| texel | GeneralAntilles: ahh. You mean like Social Security? =op | 18:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | That too. ;) | 18:43 |
| Raytray | Global warming? | 18:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | I blame that on Raytray. | 18:43 |
| qwerty12 | I blame that on the cows with their methane. | 18:43 |
| texel | Bwahahaha! | 18:43 |
| texel | +1! | 18:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | 'tis true. | 18:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Cows are a huge source of "greenhouse" gases. | 18:44 |
| texel | Funny how /nobody/ /ever/ reports how much methane those things dump into the atmosphere. | 18:44 |
| texel | Instead they focus on cars. | 18:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Steak is just too damn tasty. | 18:45 |
| Proteous | lol | 18:45 |
| texel | That's what vat grown beef is for! | 18:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 18:45 |
| texel | "OMG! It's made of vat grown beef!" | 18:45 |
| texel | Soylent Green is Beef! | 18:45 |
| * GeneralAntilles would be interested to see that, actually. | 18:45 | |
| Proteous | farms are actualy starting to harvest the methane now | 18:45 |
| Proteous | heat your house with cow farts! | 18:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pig shit pools are a good source of methane. | 18:45 |
| * texel falls over laughing at Proteous' comment | 18:46 | |
| texel | Proteous: I wish the cow farms out here in .az.us would learn to do so. | 18:46 |
| texel | When I lived in Chandler, you'd end up smelling it for /miles/ away. =o( | 18:46 |
| * timeless thought pigs were worse than cows | 18:46 | |
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| Proteous | heh | 18:47 |
| texel | That being said, the conditions they're kept in out here is terrible. | 18:47 |
| * timeless sighs | 18:47 | |
| timeless | garage is *slow* | 18:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | maemo.org is slow | 18:47 |
| timeless | gan: mxr.maemo.org isn't too bad :) | 18:48 |
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| texel | Oooh. | 18:49 |
| texel | POWDER might be good for porting to the Nxxx | 18:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | mxr's frontpage needs rebranding for Maemo. | 18:49 |
| texel | http://freshmeat.net/releases/280600/ | 18:49 |
| timeless | new brand? | 18:50 |
| qwerty12 | Ok, I'm renabling manual update of the framebuffer, is all I need to do is set CONFIG_FB_OMAP_MANUAL_UPDATE to y? | 18:50 |
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| timeless | you mean the gray background? | 18:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mostly the links to mozilla's CVS. ;) | 18:50 |
| timeless | hrm | 18:51 |
| timeless | cute... the bottom of that page makes no sense | 18:51 |
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| timeless | oh, i should get a bugzilla component :) | 18:52 |
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| timeless | um, where does a normal user find promoter? | 18:55 |
| lardman | qwerty12: no idea | 18:55 |
| Jaffa | timeless: http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras | 18:56 |
| Jaffa | http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras#Promotion more specifically | 18:56 |
| qwerty12 | lardman, thanks, I just grabbed a stock 2420_config, told me what I needed to know :) | 18:56 |
| timeless | jaffa: https://bugs.maemo.org/describecomponents.cgi?product=Website | 18:59 |
| pH5 | Jaffa: sorry for dropping the -i switch dpkg-buildpackage from the wiki, I was overreacting :) | 18:59 |
| timeless | btw, is News = planet? | 18:59 |
| lardman | johnx: not sure whether you'll see this, but I'm wondering if the bluez sbc encoder does variable bitpool values | 19:00 |
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| asedeno | Catching up on the weekend's traffic: I had the same problem with BT Dun that other people are reporting. | 19:01 |
| texel | Hm. Actually, this might be a better time to ask the same question I had last night. | 19:01 |
| texel | Is it okay for an extras package to depend on another package in extras? | 19:01 |
| asedeno | I fixed the DUN problem by clearing my username, though I can't explain why that'd work. | 19:01 |
| lardman | texel: yes | 19:01 |
| texel | Excellent. | 19:02 |
| texel | Okay, that makes porting kanatest MUCH simpler. | 19:02 |
| texel | Thanks. =o) | 19:02 |
| lardman | otherwise you'd have to statically link, or provide all the extra libs in your package | 19:02 |
| * texel nods | 19:02 | |
| texel | I kinda figured, but I wanted to be sure. | 19:02 |
| lardman | which would be *bad* :) | 19:02 |
| lardman | yeah, go for it | 19:02 |
| texel | I wasn't aware the installer was fixed to install dependencies properly. | 19:02 |
| qwerty12 | And break a lot of other packages :) | 19:02 |
| * texel nods | 19:02 | |
| lardman | texel: How so, seems to work? | 19:03 |
| texel | Now to reinstall scratchbox and the sdk... =op | 19:03 |
| texel | lardman: a few times in the past on older builds (say around OS2007) I had issues trying to install debs that had dependencies with the installer. | 19:03 |
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| qwerty12 | texel, automatic dependency resolving only works on packages being installed from a repo already :) | 19:04 |
| lardman | texel: I think there are issues sometimes if you try to update a package, and the OS depends on that exact version | 19:04 |
| texel | Ahh. | 19:04 |
| timeless | GeneralAntilles: reload? | 19:05 |
| texel | Do we still have a "deb packaging for maemo maintainers" doc laying around somewhere? | 19:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | maemo -> Maemo | 19:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Delete the non-link "IT OS 2008" | 19:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | and "IT OS 2008" -> "OS2008" | 19:06 |
| qwerty12 | ~lart maemo.org for being slow. nokia.com ain't slow like maemo.org is. | 19:07 |
| * infobot cats /dev/urandom into maemo.org's ear for being slow. nokia.com ain't slow like maemo.org is. | 19:07 | |
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| qwerty12 | texel, anywayz, http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node14.html | 19:07 |
| timeless | dougt: mxr.maemo.org, :) | 19:07 |
| qwerty12 | jott, you around? | 19:10 |
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| keesj | darius++ for thinking I am right as always :p | 19:34 |
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| dougt | timeless: what version of gcc are you using when building the maemo browser? | 19:34 |
| dougt | timeless: gcc version 3.4.4 (release) (CodeSourcery ARM 2005q3-2) ? | 19:34 |
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| Cptnodegard | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14237 | 19:35 |
| GreyFoxx | yay, my n810 is on the truck for delivery today.... time to setup a development environment for it | 19:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | keesj, new Darius creeps me out. | 19:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Cptnodegard, nice price. | 19:36 |
| timeless | sounds about right | 19:37 |
| * qwerty12 would buy a wii controller just to use it on N800 | 19:37 | |
| timeless | dougt: http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/diablo/source/gcc-3.4-3.4.4cs2005q3.2/ | 19:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes you should. | 19:37 |
| timeless | says "yes" :) | 19:37 |
| timeless | err, make that http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/gcc-3.4-3.4.4cs2005q3.2 :) | 19:38 |
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| dougt | timeless: any patches on that? | 19:38 |
| timeless | on top of code sourcery? no | 19:39 |
| timeless | is it pure gcc3.4.4? dunno, probably not :) | 19:39 |
| dougt | we are using gcc version 3.4.4 (release) (CodeSourcery ARM 2005q3-2) (same thing, i think) | 19:39 |
| timeless | you can grab the deb source just like it did :) | 19:39 |
| dougt | and are seeing random crashes. | 19:39 |
| dougt | when we build as non-opt, the problems go away. | 19:39 |
| timeless | um, yes | 19:39 |
| dougt | yeah, i know. | 19:40 |
| timeless | i think we aren't building heavy opt :) | 19:40 |
| timeless | i wouldn't recommend it | 19:40 |
| dougt | oic. | 19:40 |
| timeless | from memory, the locking instructions for the platform aren't actually threadsafe | 19:40 |
| timeless | among other spiffy features | 19:40 |
| dougt | are you just setting the global opt flag to -01 or something? | 19:40 |
| timeless | quite likely | 19:40 |
| dougt | timeless: that is a selling feature if you ask me. | 19:40 |
| timeless | your best served by running a build of ours and checking | 19:41 |
| timeless | dougt: lame platforms? | 19:41 |
| dougt | timeless: yup. or stealing your build settings and seeing of our problems go away. | 19:41 |
| timeless | you mean like our wonderful lack of hardware accel? | 19:41 |
| dougt | timeless: ship it! | 19:41 |
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| timeless | hey, we did! | 19:41 |
| dougt | doh! | 19:41 |
| dougt | honestly, if I get an IR port on the thing, it will be the most awesome device in my house. | 19:42 |
| dougt | i really want to be able to control my tv from it . | 19:42 |
| timeless | dougt: personally, i prefer the feature where the factory decided to format the n810's internal mmc beyond their physical capacity :) | 19:42 |
| timeless | dougt: yeah, i'd love that | 19:42 |
| dougt | i would even write a protocol handler so that tvguide could change my tv's channels. :-) | 19:42 |
| timeless | my cable box stopped listening to the remote a few weeks ago | 19:42 |
| timeless | otoh, it doesn't matter now, today it won't boot properly | 19:42 |
| timeless | so... | 19:43 |
| dougt | :-) | 19:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | dougt, irreco? | 19:43 |
| dougt | GeneralAntilles: get a rfc started! | 19:43 |
| lbt | dougt: mythemoter | 19:43 |
| dougt | probably want to make it not know about the "ir" bits. | 19:43 |
| lbt | controls my TV just fine... :) | 19:43 |
| dougt | tv:channel=5 | 19:43 |
| * timeless frowns | 19:43 | |
| timeless | ok, so... now i'm really confused | 19:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | or HAVA if you want streaming, too. | 19:44 |
| dougt | anyhow, we are out in the sticks... | 19:44 |
| timeless | the cvs log link in http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/diablo/source/microb-engine-1.0.4/mozilla/embedding/browser/activex/tests/vbrowse/browser.frx seems to work | 19:44 |
| timeless | but the one here: http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/microb-engine-1.0.4/mozilla/embedding/browser/activex/tests/vbrowse/browser.frx | 19:44 |
| dougt | timeless: can you point me at your moz config. | 19:44 |
| timeless | seems to be broken | 19:44 |
| timeless | probably http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/microb-engine-1.0.4/debian/configs/mozconfiggtk2 | 19:44 |
| timeless | but you'd definitely want to check the control file | 19:44 |
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| dougt | what does the control file do? | 19:45 |
| timeless | hack the planet :( | 19:45 |
| timeless | err, not control. "rules" | 19:45 |
| timeless | http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/microb-engine-1.0.4/debian/rules | 19:45 |
| timeless | 256 ifeq (,$(findstring $(DEB_HOST_ARCH),arm armel)) | 19:45 |
| timeless | 257 optimize_add += -O1 | 19:45 |
| timeless | is an interesting gem | 19:45 |
| timeless | figuring out what a rules file actually does is rocket science | 19:46 |
| timeless | dougt: i think reading about:buildconfig is probably easier :) | 19:47 |
| timeless | i suspect most of the answers you need are embedded there :) | 19:47 |
| dougt | yeah, but we do fun stuff like change opt flags of specific modules, right? | 19:47 |
| timeless | not that often | 19:47 |
| timeless | but yes | 19:47 |
| dougt | js, xpcom/io | 19:47 |
| timeless | xpcom/io ?? | 19:47 |
| dougt | i think so/ | 19:47 |
| timeless | http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/microb-engine-1.0.4/mozilla/xpcom/io/Makefile.in | 19:48 |
| timeless | doesn't look like it | 19:48 |
| timeless | reflect perhaps | 19:48 |
| dougt | http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/xpcom/io/Makefile.in#56 | 19:48 |
| dougt | nm | 19:48 |
| dougt | mac only. | 19:48 |
| dougt | wait | 19:48 |
| dougt | yeah, we do. | 19:48 |
| Jaffa | pH5: no probs :) | 19:49 |
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| timeless | url? | 19:49 |
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| dougt | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?query_format=specific&order=relevance+desc&bug_status=__open__&id=408258 | 19:49 |
| dougt | http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/xpcom/io/Makefile.in#53 | 19:49 |
| timeless | that's new | 19:49 |
| dougt | nice bandaide. | 19:49 |
| timeless | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=293018 ? | 19:50 |
| timeless | anyway, we don't have that code | 19:51 |
| dougt | we == maemo | 19:52 |
| timeless | yes | 19:52 |
| timeless | at least, not in diablo | 19:52 |
| dougt | so, using gcc-3.4-3.4.4cs2005q3.2 w/ full optimizations is probably not a great idea. | 19:53 |
| * timeless rotfl | 19:53 | |
| dougt | point taken. | 19:53 |
| * timeless passes dougt a hand-grenade minus the pin | 19:53 | |
| timeless | that's safer | 19:53 |
| dougt | have you messed around with 4.2? | 19:53 |
| timeless | there are plans to change toolchains | 19:53 |
| Veggen | hmmf. Today, my position in maemo mapper was *way* off. Like, 100s of meters. How to debug that? | 19:53 |
| lcuk_out | ive just been called stupid and off my rocker for giving away a marketable product :( | 19:54 |
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| Veggen | lcuk: There's people who absolutely does not get free software/open source. | 19:55 |
| lcuk_out | but there is nothing better than gaining a name and recognition for something - so fuck the neigh sayers :D its all worth it and i enjoyed/am enjoying doing it | 19:55 |
| Veggen | lcuk: If you can't explain it to them, just ignore them. | 19:55 |
| lcuk_out | even if i did feel like that its a bit late now ;) i cant rollback svn ;) | 19:55 |
| lcuk_out | i couwell at the summi | 19:56 |
| lcuk_out | oh crap | 19:56 |
| Veggen | lcuk: you can always fork your own closed source version (if you do own all the code yourself, that iz) :) | 19:56 |
| lcuk_out | damn paste | 19:56 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk_out: set up a donation paypal :P | 19:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 19:56 |
| Stskeeps | it does actually occasionally give cash for oss projects | 19:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Some people just don't understand open source. | 19:56 |
| lcuk_out | donation wouldnt help me do what i enjoy doing fulltime :) and i know there arent enough of me to do it all | 19:56 |
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| lcuk_out | hell, theres barely enough of me after work/home/misc to do any of this as it is | 19:57 |
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| Veggen | There's also a bunch of people that hate open source because it takes the market from closed source. At the same time as they're dismissing the possibility that people can make something large/advanced enough in open source. | 19:59 |
| lcuk | stskeeps, i started working on liqbase to solve problems with this device, and i've used it as a way to re-learn c. if anyone else can use what ive written (and will continue to write) then excellent | 19:59 |
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| lcuk | veggen, they are also mainly the same people who will copy ms office rather than try to make use of oo.org | 20:00 |
| Veggen | lcuk: true. | 20:01 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk, just out of question, wtf has it to do with your employer (I don't know anything about licensing, so sorry if this sounds n00b)? | 20:01 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: heck, i learnt C through running a OSS project when i was 15.. my code still does reveal some of that though :> | 20:01 |
| lcuk | well i spend all day *not* doing anything on liqbase | 20:01 |
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| Veggen | lcuk: and photoshop rather than gimp (or similar) | 20:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, there's justification for that one. :P | 20:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Gimp isn't quite up-to-snuff. | 20:02 |
| lcuk | no there isnt GeneralAntilles | 20:02 |
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| lcuk | get involved and help explain where its wrong and how it can be fixed | 20:02 |
| Veggen | GA: sure. But many of the people using Photoshop are just to cheap to actually pay for it, they feel they have a right to steal it. | 20:02 |
| lcuk | or buy it | 20:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh, well that. | 20:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm not talking about that. | 20:02 |
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| lcuk | i have no problem with people who want to buy commercial software (open or closed) you pay to have someone else worry about it | 20:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anyway, get back to me when Gimp has native OS X widgets. | 20:03 |
| lcuk | its like maps | 20:03 |
| Veggen | (sorry - copy it. I just do not buy the notion that copyright infringment == theft. It's still wrong/illegal, but it's not really theft) | 20:03 |
| Mousey | i seriously don't get how people can still think "software" is realistically supposed to be a "business" when there's no such thing as scarcity of goods, and every consumer is also a producer | 20:04 |
| Mousey | now that general computing is ubiquitous, software "scarcity" is just an absurdity | 20:05 |
| lcuk | you pay for the management of the product and technical assistance - thats the same whether its microsoft or mysql | 20:05 |
| Veggen | lcuk: And really, it's the same whether the product is closed source or open source. | 20:05 |
| lcuk | most users couldnt care less whether theres source there, thye just know a program does whatever | 20:05 |
| lcuk | agreed veggen :) | 20:06 |
| Mousey | that's another thing i don't get.. why pay for crappy support when the public support is so much better? | 20:06 |
| lcuk | time and energy | 20:06 |
| Stskeeps | Mousey: many OSS projects suffer from grumpy supporter syndrome though | 20:06 |
| Stskeeps | and communities | 20:07 |
| lcuk | "ive got xyz wrong with my widget" and people WILL help you. in a public forum, all bets are off and if people dont want to answer they wont | 20:07 |
| Mousey | Stskeeps, maybe, but increasingly its user communities which provide better support than corporate support organizations.. i know I get better support from this one channel than i'd ever get calling nokia | 20:07 |
| lcuk | starting in irc with "I'll give $50 to the first person who correctly helps me with..........." would probably get the same response as phoning the microsoft $50 per hour helpline | 20:08 |
| Mousey | the same just proved to be true for my mail server too, #cyrus helped me figure out sieve scripting | 20:08 |
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| Mousey | haha, phoning microsoft gets you hold music and "we don't have that problem here, reinstall" | 20:08 |
| lcuk | mousey, but there is a difference here between hardware and software | 20:08 |
| Mousey | #cyrus is software! | 20:09 |
| Mousey | #maemo is software! | 20:09 |
| * lcuk wonders how hes meant to tell what every single word means in every single context | 20:09 | |
| Mousey | oh don't cop out on us now. this is one of my favorite topics! ^_^ | 20:09 |
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| lcuk | but i bet lots of people have returned their nokia because you need special ninja skills to come in here and ask for help | 20:10 |
| lcuk | or the forums havelet them down | 20:10 |
| Mousey | there are also forums | 20:10 |
| Mousey | not everyone uses IRC, that's true | 20:10 |
| Mousey | but there are plenty of cases where calling support has let people down too | 20:10 |
| lcuk | and if you call nokia with a problem what would they do | 20:10 |
| lcuk | has anyone actually tried it | 20:10 |
| Mousey | i'd love to call nokia with a problem booting from my SD card | 20:11 |
| Mousey | that would be awesome | 20:11 |
| lcuk | do they support the nokia sponsored products? remember we get a warning if we try to install something unsigned | 20:11 |
| Mousey | i doubt fanoush is gonna answer the phone | 20:11 |
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| lcuk | "hi nokia, my built in mediaplayer is borked it wont play my pron | 20:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, google. :P | 20:12 |
| Mousey | that's my POINT. what's the point of calling support when 9 times outta 10 your problem is "outside their scope" | 20:12 |
| lcuk | my bet is you would end up at someone technical enough to support you | 20:12 |
| Mousey | i'll take that bet ^_^ | 20:12 |
| Mousey | haha | 20:12 |
| Mousey | GeneralAntilles: no fair answering the phone =P | 20:13 |
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| lcuk | go for it, record it ans see - it would be genuinely interesting to see | 20:13 |
| lcuk | perhaps you will get a direct connection to quim | 20:13 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Er, google for lcuk's context question. | 20:14 |
| lcuk | mousey, make sure you do have a problem first though and you havent jumped out of default hoops | 20:14 |
| Mousey | well it's way too late for that | 20:14 |
| Mousey | i hang out in here, odds are pretty slim my joint's even under warranty anymore ;) | 20:15 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, yer, its a #maemo log | 20:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Something really needs to be done about card corruption with Maemo | 20:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Corruption on the internal card can completely bring the system down. | 20:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | and the user has no way of guessing that that might be the problem. | 20:16 |
| lcuk | i agree, is there a 1 click fix? | 20:16 |
| Mousey | that's why i switched to ext3 internally =) | 20:17 |
| lcuk | (serious) | 20:17 |
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| lcuk | ext3 is a cpuhog | 20:17 |
| qwerty12 | Is that a N810 only thing or affects all OS2008? | 20:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | All of OS2008 | 20:17 |
| lcuk | n810 only, its MMC2 built in 2gb card | 20:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | OS2007, too. | 20:17 |
| Mousey | so what, i'll pay in cycles for FS robustness | 20:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, an N800 with a corrupt internal card will have the same issues. | 20:17 |
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| nomis | is that the wrong-partition-table corruption problem? | 20:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | N800s just don't ship with corrupt internal card. | 20:17 |
| lcuk | but the 810 came out of the factory pre-corrupted | 20:17 |
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| Mousey | wow | 20:18 |
| qwerty12 | A quick guess would be that it's the many default processes that access MMC (metalayer e.g.), ke-recv or somthing in the kernel :/ | 20:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | nomis, well, that issue is specific to the N810 and will eventually cause corruption which will lead to these symptoms | 20:18 |
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| lcuk | since other cards are preformatted i dont see how its an os200x problem | 20:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | but the issue is that a corrupt internal card (N800 or N810) will bring your system to its knees. | 20:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, listen to what I'm saying. :P | 20:18 |
| * Mousey recommends ship with ext3 and add fsck to the boot process | 20:18 | |
| GeneralAntilles | ANY CORRUPT INTERNAL CARD WILL BRING MAEMO TO ITS KNEES | 20:18 |
| * Mousey panics! | 20:19 | |
| lcuk | i am, my card is corrupted NOW i just havent reached the broken part | 20:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mousey, then what do Windows users do when they want to mount their cards on their computer? | 20:19 |
| qwerty12 | Mousey, Maybe when all the buyers of the N8*0's use Linux as main os | 20:19 |
| Mousey | what's a Windows user? | 20:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ext* is not a valid solution | 20:19 |
| lcuk | i can view Ext* on my windows computer | 20:19 |
| Mousey | *sigh* | 20:19 |
| * nomis fixed his partition table before the system went down for the first time... | 20:19 | |
| lcuk | sshfs | 20:19 |
| Mousey | ntfs? | 20:20 |
| lcuk | nomis, is it a hard job and would i as a crap user manage it ? | 20:20 |
| lcuk | no, my mmc1 is extwhatever and i use it daily from windows | 20:20 |
| ShadowJK | hm, I inserted an unformatted card into my N810 and it said it was corrupt, then I formatted it with N810 and it worked fine? | 20:20 |
| lcuk | i couldnt use it if i plugged via usb though | 20:20 |
| nomis | lcuk: well, I fixed it using fdisk on a Linux box, not sure if that counts as "easy" | 20:20 |
| Mousey | besides, can't ship an ext3 windows/mac driver? it's an open standard, and it doesn't cost license fees, should already have implementations for Mac and Win. seems like a no brainer | 20:20 |
| lcuk | nomis, no its not... | 20:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Card corruption will also make Application manager stop working. | 20:21 |
| * lcuk waits for maemo summit for technical assistance ;) | 20:21 | |
| qwerty12 | That one could be avoided with better handling in the application manager, for now, you have to use red pill mode and untick the use mmc option. | 20:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mousey, talk to Apple and Microsoft. | 20:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Community support for ext* on both sucks. | 20:22 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Basically, the issue is that Maemo really doesn't know how to handle card corruption | 20:22 |
| qwerty12 | I'd have thought ext support in Macs would be good? | 20:22 |
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| GeneralAntilles | and it accounts for a SIGNIFICANT portion of user-reported difficulties. | 20:22 |
| lcuk | yer, i would have expected macs to be almost plug and play compat, cant it just slot into the mach kernel? | 20:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12, the ext2 driver is from 2005 | 20:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | and it's slow as hell. | 20:23 |
| ShadowJK | as a new user of N810 I find it pretty difficult to actually find information... I'm sure it's there somewhere on maemo.org, maybe, but I haven't figured out how to navigate it :-) | 20:23 |
| qwerty12 | Ouch >.< | 20:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's no reason why support isn't good | 20:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just nobody has picked it up. | 20:23 |
| Mousey | why bother contacting apple and microsoft for open drivers that already exists? | 20:23 |
| Mousey | maybe they don't exist??? | 20:23 |
| Mousey | haha | 20:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Either way | 20:23 |
| Mousey | nevermind, clearly i'm a dumbass | 20:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Expecting somebody to install filesystem drivers to mount their card is stupid. | 20:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's not something Nokia could ship. | 20:24 |
| lcuk | that happens now | 20:24 |
| Mousey | that totally happens now | 20:24 |
| lcuk | plugging in usb memory sticks on lots of systems needs drivers | 20:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | The ONLY universal filesystem is FAT. | 20:24 |
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| Mousey | ever hear of NDAS? | 20:24 |
| Mousey | NDAS is a NAS filesystem that a driver needs installing for | 20:25 |
| lcuk | North Devon Archaeological Society | 20:25 |
| Mousey | ships with a lot of external NAS boxes | 20:25 |
| lcuk | ?? | 20:25 |
| Mousey | video cards all need drivers, sound cards too | 20:25 |
| lcuk | mousey, i doubt most common folk come into contact with that ;) | 20:25 |
| lcuk | but practically everyone knows what a usb memory stick is and that it might need drivers | 20:25 |
| Mousey | it seems absurd that filesystem drivers need to be universal, but other peripherals don't | 20:26 |
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| Mousey | wifi cards too | 20:26 |
| Mousey | a universal printer driver would be nice | 20:26 |
| ShadowJK | postscript? ;) | 20:26 |
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| Mousey | ShadowJK: touche | 20:26 |
| Mousey | tell it to my deskjet 870 tho ;) | 20:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anyway, installing drivers isn't a valid solution. | 20:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Technically feasible | 20:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | but not acceptable to Nokia. | 20:27 |
| Mousey | i get it, i really do. | 20:28 |
| ShadowJK | nokia's pc suite doesn't install any drivers? ;p | 20:28 |
| Mousey | AND i'll even shut up about it | 20:28 |
| Mousey | but, it's still absurd not to consider | 20:28 |
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| ShadowJK | Anyone else noticed that "Nokia music store for N-series" (or something like that) doesn't work on N810? ;p | 20:29 |
| * GeneralAntilles needs to file a bug. | 20:29 | |
| ShadowJK | iirc, it tells me to use my PC and internet explorer instead | 20:30 |
| * ShadowJK doesn't have that :p | 20:30 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Hrm, what does that go under? | 20:30 |
| Mousey | what's internet explorer? | 20:30 |
| hellwolf | How the mtdblocks partition specified in the N800, hard coded, kernel command line, or a special partition table? | 20:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | File system? | 20:30 |
| qwerty12 | hellwolf, kernel, also config partition for bootloader contains partition tablet | 20:31 |
| qwerty12 | *table | 20:31 |
| qwerty12 | that partition table was updated for diablo release | 20:31 |
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| hellwolf | qwe | 20:32 |
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| hellwolf | *_* | 20:32 |
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| lcuk | hellwolf, what were you before you became a hellwolf? a badwolf? | 20:33 |
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| hellwolf | lcuk, the world is not like that please, badguy never goes hell | 20:34 |
| hellwolf | qwerty12_N800, thank you, then I found that in flasher application I can change the location of the partition, why's that possible, if it's specified in the kernel | 20:35 |
| hellwolf | lcuk, I was good :D | 20:35 |
| keesj | the new profile pages show what posts you love and hate ... | 20:36 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hellwolf, it may not be in kernel, but i did see a lot relating to it in the kernel. do you mean change the root/partition it boots from in flasher? | 20:36 |
| qwerty12_N800 | (it's for sure in config partition though) | 20:37 |
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| hellwolf | I don't know, I see the options : --fiasco, -F <arg> --kernel, -k <arg>, ... | 20:37 |
| hellwolf | Location of a FIASCO image | 20:37 |
| hellwolf | Location of kernel image | 20:37 |
| hellwolf | etc. | 20:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | keesj, time to be less arbitrary with your thumbing. :P | 20:37 |
| keesj | indeed | 20:38 |
| ||cw | hellwolf: isn't that refering to the local path of the image? | 20:38 |
| ||cw | like, what image to upload? | 20:38 |
| hellwolf | ||cw, ah.. should be :D | 20:38 |
| hellwolf | qwerty12_N800, but you said diablo change the location, how could flasher be aware of that then | 20:39 |
| qwerty12_N800 | re setting root device to boot from in flasher, the partition table still isn't modified but i'm too tired to explain what does | 20:39 |
| hellwolf | partition table? | 20:40 |
| hellwolf | it exists? | 20:40 |
| qwerty12_N800 | yes, in config partition/cal | 20:40 |
| lcuk | yes, there are partition chairs as well | 20:40 |
| hellwolf | what about coffee machine | 20:40 |
| lcuk | now you are pushing it | 20:41 |
| * qwerty12_N800 wants liberal coffee machine | 20:41 | |
| Maximander | anyone know how i'd go about installing phpgtk on an n810? | 20:41 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, tea fan? how british (in posh voice) | 20:41 |
| * lcuk wants a social coffee machine | 20:41 | |
| * lbt has a coffee machine | 20:42 | |
| ||cw | Maximander: same as anything else, setup the sdk and compile it | 20:42 |
| lcuk | not at all my good chap, i drink the finest roasted coffee beans asda will sell | 20:42 |
| * lbt invites everyone round for a non-political cup of coffee | 20:43 | |
| Maximander | I have scratchbox setup, but I'm not sure how to deal with deps | 20:43 |
| * lcuk puts on his bowler hat and picks up his Times newspaper and trundles to the trainstation | 20:43 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | lol | 20:43 |
| lcuk | be there in a jiffy lbt | 20:43 |
| * lbt thinks he's on Blue Mountain beans today... | 20:43 | |
| lcuk | all this talk of coffee reminds me of a pet peeve of my missus | 20:44 |
| * qwerty12_N800 doesn't drink tea or coffee :) | 20:44 | |
| lcuk | she wont play scrabble with me any more :( | 20:44 |
| lcuk | i keep winning the game by doing triple word java | 20:44 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=199495 <--- qwerty likes. | 20:45 |
| lcuk | kde in a window? | 20:45 |
| * qwerty12_N800 likes how hildon is still running | 20:46 | |
| lcuk | yer, that seems like a nice compromise | 20:46 |
| Stskeeps | kde4? intruiging | 20:46 |
| Maximander | so, for installing packages in my build env to meet deps, can I just do sb2 --emulate apt-get install php-cli ? | 20:47 |
| * lcuk pulls out a pipe and after scraping about with it ignites a barrel, kicks off his shoes and waits for his slippers to be brought to him | 20:48 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | how did you do all that while typing? | 20:48 |
| * lcuk inhales deeply before sending a tux shaped ring billowing across the room | 20:48 | |
| lcuk | i hired a temp today | 20:49 |
| hellwolf | There must be a live WWE here | 20:49 |
| lcuk | shes quite good, called donna noble | 20:49 |
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| lcuk | real teatime anyway, back in a bit | 20:50 |
| * qwerty12_N800 's waiting for pizza from local takeaway | 20:51 | |
| lardman | what was the job description: "must know svn, how to light a pipe and how to bring slippers"? | 20:51 |
| * lardman is waiting for pizza from local oven :) | 20:51 | |
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| qwerty12_N800 | lardman, trying to replace the temp ? | 20:51 |
| qwerty12_N800 | :) | 20:52 |
| lardman | nah, I'm not blonde | 20:52 |
| qwerty12_N800 | heh | 20:52 |
| lardman | actually, she may not be either, we'll have to ask | 20:52 |
| lardman | I'm not good with slippers either :p | 20:52 |
| * qwerty12_N800 needs to get a new pair, mine ripped and i'm walking barefoot round the house :/ | 20:53 | |
| * lardman always walks barefoot, can't stand slippers | 20:54 | |
| hellwolf | take care of your stylus | 20:54 |
| lardman | :) | 20:54 |
| lardman | drawing pins are the real problem | 20:54 |
| qwerty12_N800 | ouch , for me, the dodgy carpet on the stairs :/ | 20:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3414 | 20:55 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | using dd on the card's dev block file is probably a faster method of corruption | 20:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800, if you want to add a comment? | 20:57 |
| qwerty12_N800 | i'm not entirely sure on it :) | 20:58 |
| qwerty12_N800 | my dd syntax knowledge is lacking | 20:58 |
| qwerty12_N800 | the stuff that handles mmc mounting is actually open source | 20:59 |
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| lcuk | lardman, you are famous: http://funmeme.com/archive/2008/07/07/dont-take-your-husband-to-walmart.aspx | 21:10 |
| lcuk | and no, unfortunately shes not real nor blonde i still have to do it all myself | 21:10 |
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| Maximander | grrr... for some reason my scratchbox apt isn't working correctly | 21:17 |
| Maximander | first, running check shows hundreds of unmet deps | 21:17 |
| Maximander | whereas apt-get check on my 810 is fine | 21:17 |
| Maximander | second, I copied over the sources.list(.d/*) and ran apt-get update, but sb apt still can't fine packages that are fine on the 810 | 21:18 |
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| Maximander | any ideas? | 21:19 |
| Maximander | (the packages it can't find are in maemo-hackers chinook main, which coincidentally throws a GPG error during apt-get update | 21:20 |
| Maximander | but I assumed that would just mean they'd be unverified) | 21:20 |
| zap | you could try to clean apt cache (/var/cache/apt) first | 21:24 |
| Maximander | inside sb2? | 21:25 |
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| Maximander | errr | 21:26 |
| Maximander | actually | 21:26 |
| Maximander | I think i got it to work, but now I have a different problem | 21:26 |
| Maximander | sb2 -m emulate apt-get install php5-dev | 21:27 |
| Maximander | ..... | 21:27 |
| Maximander | /bin/sh: line 1: /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: No such file or directory | 21:27 |
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| Maximander | I don't get why this is so broken, I just setup my dev env by following the guide | 21:28 |
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| lardman | lcuk: lol | 21:31 |
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| Andy80 | hi all | 21:43 |
| JamieBennett | hi | 21:43 |
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| Jaffa | re | 22:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hey, Jaffa. | 22:14 |
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| lcuk | who has nights where they feel "Meh!" | 22:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oooh, mee! | 22:22 |
| lcuk | lol i guess tongiht isnt one of yours | 22:22 |
| lcuk | theres nothin good on the internet to do (i finished the game i was playing) and im borrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrred | 22:24 |
| texel | lcuk: port another program. =o) | 22:25 |
| lcuk | port? | 22:25 |
| lcuk | i started last week moudling somethin in c++ - it wont be ready till ummmmm probably the summit | 22:26 |
| lcuk | but that doesnt help now ;) | 22:26 |
| lcuk | perhaps i need to work on a spell checker for irc | 22:26 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, on your mac all text fields are spell checkable by default arent they - does your irc get the love from this feature? | 22:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes | 22:27 |
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| lcuk | ~lart steve jobs for having classy ideas | 22:27 |
| * infobot drops a baby grand on steve jobs for having classy ideas | 22:27 | |
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| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, xchat for linux has a spell checker, dunno why it isn't present on the maemo version. | 22:31 |
| Jaffa | Lack of libaspell installed? | 22:31 |
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| lcuk | the problem is a bit more dire ;) im running windows when i make the most typos | 22:32 |
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| Toba | running windows is the dire situation | 22:35 |
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| lcuk | toba, i dont agree at the moment, windows xp works very well for me and its fast. | 22:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bleh | 22:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | You just lack perspective. | 22:37 |
| lcuk | no i dont, linux feels "heavy" doing stuff, windows dont respond like i expect. same situation with the 810, but i had no alternative on 810 than to do something about it ;) | 22:38 |
| lcuk | sure, i could have found a window manager that suited, but time investment from xp didnt make it worth it. it just works and does what i want (on the whole) | 22:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | and your perspective for Linux is, what, vmware? | 22:38 |
| lcuk | no, the ubuntu laptop over there ^^^^ and the livecds ive installed in the past | 22:39 |
| lcuk | the laptop was great with xp but ever since i put ubuntu on it hasnt run as smoothly | 22:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sounds like a configuration issue. . . . | 22:40 |
| lcuk | very likely is gen, you have heard and seen just how crap with it all i am | 22:40 |
| lbt | lcuk: if you're bored: http://wubi-installer.org/ | 22:41 |
| * lcuk knows his limitations | 22:41 | |
| lcuk | lol lbt, will it sit pretty with andlinux that ive got on here? * | 22:41 |
| lcuk | *note, i installed it, but it couldnt see the files i wanted easily so its not been used since | 22:42 |
| lbt | probably :) | 22:42 |
| lbt | but if you have a spare partition then a native install is best - and Ubuntu without question | 22:42 |
| lbt | simply 'cos it's nice and the SDK suggests it | 22:42 |
| lcuk | hmmm, ive got my old c drive knocking around somewhere (migrated to larger drive, cloned and left the older space..) | 22:43 |
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| lbt | how do you start a chant of "go lcuk" on irc? | 22:43 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, just out of question, if you've got a linux laptop, why not use that instead of andlinux? | 22:44 |
| lcuk | cos its slow | 22:44 |
| qwerty12_N800 | skeen | 22:44 |
| lcuk | i need to buy preinstalled hardware designed for the purpose all nicely configured and ready to go, but i cant afford anything like that | 22:45 |
| lbt | WHAT!!! | 22:45 |
| lbt | that's *so* not true :D | 22:45 |
| lbt | it's all about using odds+sods... | 22:45 |
| derf | lbt: Doing so also requires you to be fairly skilled in what you're doing. | 22:46 |
| derf | Particularly with respect to graphics drivers. | 22:46 |
| lcuk | i have been using odds and sods for years | 22:46 |
| lbt | if you start the install I'll hang around | 22:46 |
| lbt | and if you have any issues... | 22:47 |
| derf | The state of graphics drivers in Linux is so abysmal it's very, very easy for a non-expert to get things wrong. | 22:47 |
| derf | It's the number one complaint I've heard from people who tried to switch to Linux and gave up. | 22:47 |
| lcuk | we are back onto me needing an intern :) | 22:47 |
| Maximander | aw, come on, it's gotten SOO much better | 22:47 |
| lbt | lcuk: that laptop runs graphics from liveCDs doesn't it | 22:47 |
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| Maximander | more than half the time, ubuntu just works now days | 22:47 |
| Maximander | it grabs prop. drivers and all | 22:47 |
| derf | Maximander: "Half the time" is not really a very high bar to clear. | 22:48 |
| lcuk | everything does lbt, but it feels like im running maemo desktop ;) | 22:48 |
| lbt | and if it doesn't - well, you did say you were bored... | 22:48 |
| ||cw | derf: that's really only true of ATI drivers | 22:48 |
| Maximander | and it's alot better on newer hardware | 22:48 |
| ||cw | nvidia drivers are a breeze | 22:48 |
| lbt | and I think we can all say with a lot of confidence that you *won't* screw up your windows install | 22:48 |
| derf | ||cw: Again, if you know exactly what you're doing, maybe. | 22:48 |
| lbt | hey - he has an N800 with irc | 22:49 |
| Maximander | nvidia is easy, intel works out of box (well, except HDMI) | 22:49 |
| lbt | we're here... | 22:49 |
| ||cw | derf: most modern distro's have a package for that enabled by default | 22:49 |
| lbt | what more does he need? | 22:49 |
| lcuk | nvidia drivers..... ahhh my toshiba laptop decided to install nvidia default to the tv out and forced me to close x, drop to console reinitialize all the x confgi do binary editing on a file reestablish it all and reboot and hope for the best | 22:49 |
| derf | I've had plenty of problems with nVidia drivers myself, but then I do SLI and multiple screens and servers and lots of weird stuff. | 22:49 |
| ||cw | intel's newer drivers are nice, can even get compiz going on an 845G | 22:49 |
| lbt | derf: I run nvidia on my 3 myth boxes and dual-screen ati on my 2 desktops :) | 22:49 |
| Maximander | my desktop (nforce 680 with two 8600GT's SLi) was a piece of cake to setup | 22:50 |
| lbt | although my ati is old tech | 22:50 |
| derf | lbt: Yes... all these things are _possible_. | 22:50 |
| Maximander | booted normally first time, apt-got the nvidia controls and checked the "sli" box | 22:50 |
| derf | That is not the same thing as being "easy" or "just working". | 22:50 |
| lcuk | here you go | 22:50 |
| lcuk | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=575832 | 22:50 |
| lbt | derf: more to the point - we have a range of experience here if he hits snags :) | 22:50 |
| lcuk | oh lbt, i know theres a lot of experience here, i see boths sides, being both technical in some aspects and in others | 22:51 |
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| lcuk | and not in others^ | 22:51 |
| lbt | nah - I just meant that if you go for it then we can help... | 22:52 |
| Maximander | now as far as other things on linux, there's plenty that's broken (/me is trying to compile phpgtk for chinook, and is on about the 10th ./configure due to fsck'ed deps) | 22:52 |
| ||cw | it's been a long time since nvidia drivers didn't "just work" | 22:52 |
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| lcuk | the best thing to ever happen to linux is out of the box experience. the n8x0 and the eee have done more for linux than anything | 22:52 |
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| lcuk | the best assistance you can give to someone is to help them put the OS they got on their computer when they bought it, its been tested and known working at that point, even if its win3.1 they will have a better experience with that than tryign to use it for something else | 22:53 |
| Maximander | uh, I'd say the best thing to happen to linux is uptake in the server market, where the alternatives are weak, and having a free option lowers the barriers to entry for web2.0-ish ventures | 22:54 |
| lcuk | *unless you know what you are doing and can cure everything | 22:54 |
| qwerty12_N800 | even trying to install win3.11 wfw? | 22:54 |
| lbt | lcuk: yeah - but you're bored | 22:54 |
| lbt | JFDI | 22:54 |
| derf | Maximander: That happened in 1998. | 22:54 |
| lcuk | thats a damned good point, ill just vape the partition | 22:54 |
| lcuk | brb | 22:54 |
| lbt | yup | 22:54 |
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| Maximander | derf: yeah, and it's still the best thing to happen... | 22:55 |
| lcuk | Maximander, but noone knows that they are there - my boss tried to tell me linux will never get anywhere - i looked around the room at our router, i pinged our webserver - i connected to get email... | 22:55 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | your boss needs to get his head out of his ass | 22:56 |
| Maximander | lcuk: yeah, and microsoft's Get the Facts isn't helping, nor is the fact the most schools IT or CS programs are funded my MS to get the FUD into the classroom, but still, we see widespread FOSS adoption, even in govt's | 22:56 |
| ||cw | especially in government | 22:57 |
| lcuk | the guy who bitched at me today about open source was using firefox at the time | 22:57 |
| Maximander | sure, consumer devices that "just work" are great for some awareness, but i think awareness among the geek crowd is more important, as they have to actually make decisions, commit patches, etc | 22:58 |
| lcuk | we dont make decisions | 22:58 |
| lbt | lcuk: so is the partition gone already? | 22:58 |
| lcuk | im just deleting the whole contents of the drive now, its in program files at the moment (god i hope this is the correct one...) | 22:58 |
| Veggen | Well. Personally, I hear friends telling me getting tired of doing Windows support for people and installing Linux all the time. So much that I now believe Linux is actually easier than Windows. | 22:59 |
| Veggen | The problem is for the people who has already learnt to master Windows. | 22:59 |
| lbt | oh, is this a wubi install? | 22:59 |
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| Veggen | But those that haven't yet, might actually be better off with Linux. | 22:59 |
| yigal | what is a good open source VoIP software, I just got an n800 and would like to see if I can migrate to soley using it for making calls | 23:00 |
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| derf | Veggen: Most people don't want to have to "master" their OS. | 23:00 |
| Veggen | derf: sure. | 23:00 |
| Veggen | derf: And for those, Linux is as good as Windows. | 23:00 |
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| yigal | weaklings, I say, jk, well sort of | 23:01 |
| Veggen | derf: They'll rely on friends for all the technical stuff anyhow, and if you as a Linux user are the friend they rely on, then you (and consequently, they) are better off with Linux. | 23:01 |
| lbt | lcuk: b4 we start - what hardware are we talking here - a laptop with a single hdd and a cdrom/dvd? Simple install of XP? or any funnies like it already has a custom bootloader? | 23:01 |
| Veggen | yigal: in Diablo, SIP support is included. | 23:02 |
| lcuk | WTF - securom has evil undeletable files | 23:02 |
| lcuk | ЃϵϳЅЂϿϽϯІχϯπρϴϱЄϱЃϵϳЅ | 23:02 |
| lcuk | lbt, desktop with nvidia mobo + amb chip + nvidia gfx, its stable in most livecds (just sluggish) | 23:03 |
| lcuk | multi hard drive | 23:03 |
| lbt | is one going to be used for ubuntu? | 23:03 |
| lbt | 'cos there is no need to erase it | 23:03 |
| lcuk | one partition yer | 23:03 |
| lbt | and you know which partition? | 23:03 |
| lcuk | i just need to be sure first that | 23:03 |
| lcuk | yer, before doing anything i cleanup :) a tidy home and all that | 23:04 |
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| Veggen | Since I got Garmin mapsource to run under wine, I got rid of every last windows dependence at home, btw. | 23:05 |
| lcuk | it will work, i dont doubt it | 23:05 |
| Veggen | Have no need for it. For anything. | 23:05 |
| yigal | Veggen: excuse me I should ask then open source SIP/VoIP clients, is this more precise/accurate a question | 23:05 |
| lbt | Veggen: cool :) | 23:05 |
| yigal | ? | 23:05 |
| lbt | Twinkle? | 23:06 |
| yigal | Veggen: congratulations | 23:06 |
| lbt | Twinkle is OSS SIP client. | 23:06 |
| lbt | runs against asterisk | 23:06 |
| Veggen | yigal: trust me, for people that's bought their share of things they just want to work with their computer and discover that the administrative software is windows-only, that *is* quite a big thing. | 23:07 |
| lbt | (I just bought a Digium card for £10 - so SIP/lanline soon :) ) | 23:07 |
| lbt | Veggen: I was expecting the N800 flasher to need windows... | 23:07 |
| lbt | oh wait... | 23:07 |
| Veggen | yigal: And there's actually quite a few of us that's primarily Linux users for quite some time, but have this *one* thing we need that Windows install for. | 23:08 |
| yigal | lbt: sounds good, Twinkle then it is | 23:08 |
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| yigal | Veggen: yes, I know | 23:08 |
| lbt | cool - keep me informed - I'd love to see that on the N800 | 23:08 |
| Veggen | lbt: I went for a VOIP-provider that provides me with a iax2 connection. | 23:08 |
| lbt | I went ukfsn.org | 23:08 |
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| lbt | and FWD (free world dialup) | 23:09 |
| yigal | Veggen: I have a blackberry, I wish I didn't and I can't do an OS upgrade without windows, just terrible | 23:09 |
| qwerty12_N800 | does the latest released mplayer support alsa? | 23:09 |
| lbt | but, tbh, I've never really spent time getting it going | 23:09 |
| lbt | qwerty12_N800: for about 3 years+ | 23:09 |
| lbt | or do you mean on the NIT? | 23:10 |
| qwerty12_N800 | no, i mean the maemo port, i've been hearing that the latest breaks a2dp etc. just not sure | 23:10 |
| qwerty12_N800 | yes, sorry for not being clear | 23:10 |
| lcuk | lbt, wubi by default creates an xGB image file doesnt it (like vmware) | 23:10 |
| lbt | yes - but we won't be using wubi | 23:11 |
| lbt | not if you have a partition | 23:11 |
| qwerty12_N800 | if it does, i'll have to load up the scratchbox :/ | 23:11 |
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| yigal | Veggen: but now with the n800 and wifi connection I may not have to deal with it, or T-mobile my provider for much longer | 23:11 |
| lcuk | lbt :) one step at a time, if im happy with this install ill vape and build as a partition - im not gonna risk it crashing down around me and ive got 60gb free and available now i deleted it all | 23:12 |
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| lbt | err | 23:13 |
| lbt | if you have a blank partition then you're making life much harder by not just using it... | 23:13 |
| lbt | if it's not blank though | 23:14 |
| lbt | then fair enough | 23:14 |
| lcuk | it wasnt blank when i started but its nice and clean now | 23:14 |
| lbt | then just do a partition install | 23:14 |
| lcuk | but i dont wanna rock the boat with partition tables and bootstraps | 23:14 |
| lbt | you already will | 23:15 |
| lbt | you won't change the part table | 23:15 |
| lbt | what bootloader are you using? | 23:15 |
| lbt | XP std | 23:15 |
| lcuk | ok, ill cancel this and find my dvd | 23:15 |
| lcuk | ummmmm yeah | 23:15 |
| lcuk | i think anyway | 23:16 |
| lbt | what we'll do is install linux to p2 | 23:16 |
| lbt | install grub (bootloader) to p2 | 23:16 |
| lbt | and chainload from the XP bootloader | 23:16 |
| lcuk | no, p1 | 23:16 |
| lbt | I was guessing :) | 23:16 |
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| Atarii | lcuk save me | 23:17 |
| Atarii | what repository is it i need? | 23:17 |
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| lcuk | hd0_ide0[ [60gb blank] , [131gb data] ] hd1_ide1[ [250gb data] ] hd2_ata0[ [200gb system] ] | 23:18 |
| lbt | ok | 23:18 |
| lcuk | tell me how i list my repos and ill give it you | 23:18 |
| lcuk | http://repository.maemo.org chinook free non-free | 23:20 |
| lcuk | i think lemme check | 23:20 |
| lbt | b4 you leave windows - edit your boot.ini | 23:21 |
| Atarii | hmm, i have that one lcuk | 23:21 |
| Atarii | in fact i installed a few dev/buildmake packages, but the make command complained of a missing "build" file | 23:22 |
| lcuk | apt-cache search gcc displays what | 23:22 |
| lcuk | does gcc work? | 23:22 |
| lcuk | it all depends on what your makefile needs to do the job | 23:24 |
| lcuk | im not able to build everything, but compiling and linking and using dev libraries works well | 23:24 |
| MoRpHeUz | anybody put pulseaudio to work on the platform ? | 23:24 |
| lcuk | ie: i tried to build git on my 810 - it got partway through but then failed needing perl | 23:25 |
| Atarii | ok, well ive got a fresh OS atm, so need to reinstall the stuff | 23:25 |
| texel | Greh. And I was thinking about porting git to the NITs, too. =o | 23:25 |
| texel | If it needs perl, that's going to suck. | 23:25 |
| lbt | texel: and here's one I prepared earlier... | 23:26 |
| lcuk | no, git build needed perl - the stuff i do doesnt so it works well | 23:26 |
| lcuk | i dont know what else might be required for other things | 23:26 |
| * lcuk waves his magic wand | 23:26 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Er, perl is bundled. . . . | 23:26 |
| texel | Eh? | 23:26 |
| lbt | "Eh?" eh? | 23:27 |
| texel | Hm. Looks like a minimal perl install, though. | 23:27 |
| texel | Ie: perldb is missing. | 23:27 |
| lcuk | ok, sorry perl failed with lots of perl errors | 23:27 |
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| lbt | GeneralAntilles: the git build uses perl (and other stuff) to generate a *lot* of docs... takes forever | 23:28 |
| Jaffa | Modules aren't there, but that's different to porting perl itself | 23:28 |
| lcuk | Nokia-N810-50-2:/media/mmc1/old/git-1.5.6# make | 23:28 |
| lcuk | SUBDIR perl | 23:28 |
| lcuk | /usr/bin/perl Makefile.PL PREFIX='/usr/local' | 23:28 |
| lcuk | Can't locate ExtUtils/MakeMaker.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/ lib/perl/5.8.3 /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.3 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/ lib/perl/5.8 /usr/share/perl/5.8 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at Makefile.PL line 1. | 23:28 |
| lcuk | BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at Makefile.PL line 1. | 23:28 |
| lcuk | make[1]: *** [perl.mak] Error 2 | 23:28 |
| lcuk | make: *** [perl/perl.mak] Error 2 | 23:28 |
| * lcuk sorry :$ | 23:28 | |
| texel | Ahh. | 23:28 |
| texel | MakeMaker. | 23:28 |
| texel | And ExtUtils. | 23:28 |
| texel | Yeah, those are pretty heavy. | 23:28 |
| lbt | I suspect editing the Makefile and removing the docs dependency would fix it... | 23:28 |
| texel | Most likely. | 23:28 |
| lcuk | lbt :) which was why i asked a serious developer with experience of the issues which might arise | 23:29 |
| lbt | :D | 23:29 |
| lbt | and then got a binary tarball in the email... | 23:29 |
| lbt | is that all OK BTW? | 23:29 |
| * lcuk is thankful for having git now and thinks he will use it very near future possibly for something it wasnt intended but thats tbc | 23:29 | |
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| lbt | I've not bothered packaging it as I didn't think anyone else was nuts enough to use git on the NIT itself! | 23:30 |
| lcuk | yer i got it running and managed to commit and extract and compare and stuff :) | 23:30 |
| texel | lbt: erm... git is probably the best scm for the NIT, tbh. | 23:30 |
| texel | It's very lightweight. | 23:30 |
| lbt | oh yes - that's why I suggested it... | 23:30 |
| texel | Personally, I use git to manage the history of anything I work with. | 23:30 |
| lcuk | yer it was quicker than svn | 23:30 |
| lbt | but who does dev *on* the nit... | 23:30 |
| texel | Having it on the N810 would be SO much better for managing what I edit there. | 23:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, a lot of people. | 23:31 |
| lcuk | however, i havent compared like for like using ondemand cpu | 23:31 |
| lbt | (I know...) | 23:31 |
| lbt | (sad puppies) | 23:31 |
| texel | I would love to do dev on the N810, but I'm afraid I'm not quite that good yet. =o) | 23:31 |
| lcuk | performance cpu runs EVERYTHING faster - compiling in less than a minute, numpty running quick internet even a bit better | 23:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Khertan's put together a lot of good tools for it. | 23:31 |
| texel | GeneralAntilles: do they work for Diablo? =o) | 23:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Why wouldn't they? | 23:32 |
| * texel shrugs | 23:32 | |
| lcuk | texel, i suck compared to the guys in here, my skills are way off out the window and far away | 23:32 |
| texel | Not sure how much of the underpinnings in Diablo has changed. | 23:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Packaging is still a little funky | 23:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | libssl | 23:32 |
| texel | For all I know, the ABI could probably have changed since chinook. =op | 23:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's the extent of the major library changes | 23:32 |
| texel | Ah. Well, that explains quite a bit, then. =o) | 23:33 |
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| lcuk | and thats because of the upstream problem isnt it | 23:33 |
| texel | s/upstream/debian/ ? | 23:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | No | 23:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's to do with WiMAX, if anything. | 23:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maemo was not affected by the Debian issues. | 23:33 |
| lcuk | yer, didnt one of the devs fuckup ssl by leaving a default salt in or something | 23:33 |
| Jaffa | Removed an unassigned variable warning by assigning it to 0. Fixed the warning, reduced the security. | 23:34 |
| texel | lcuk: no, the debian maintainer added a patch to openssl to "fix" a bug, but it actually severely restricted the source of entropy that openssl used. | 23:34 |
| Jaffa | Of course, there's a good argument that if the unassignment was meaningful it should've been commented. | 23:34 |
| lbt | from my reading the blame wasn't on one guy | 23:34 |
| texel | Jaffa: hehe -- true, but wow the openssl code base is nasty. O.o | 23:35 |
| lbt | good writeup on LWN if you care | 23:35 |
| lcuk | thanks for the clarification, but isnt that why ssl changed? | 23:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | No. | 23:35 |
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| lcuk | so that bug remains? | 23:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | No. | 23:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maemo was not affected. | 23:35 |
| lcuk | i thought we were downstream from deb? | 23:35 |
| avs | Downstream, and very slow. | 23:36 |
| lbt | ROFL | 23:36 |
| avs | Slow enough, apparently. | 23:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | We are, the libssl version affected was later then the one bundled. | 23:36 |
| lcuk | lol so slow we hadnt even picked up the bug in the first place | 23:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^ | 23:36 |
| lcuk | heh, that rocks | 23:36 |
| lcuk | security by senility | 23:37 |
| lbt | so how's the install going? | 23:37 |
| lbt | <crack> | 23:37 |
| lcuk | well if i put a proper cd in ive gotta close this and drop off the internet | 23:37 |
| lcuk | and if it fecks up i have no way of getting back on the internet | 23:37 |
| lbt | I thought you irced on the nit? | 23:37 |
| lcuk | i stopped wubi cos you said not to do it that way | 23:37 |
| lcuk | yer i do | 23:38 |
| lbt | so you could chat during the install? | 23:38 |
| lcuk | but the only wireless adapter in the house just happens to be plugged into this computer | 23:38 |
| lbt | ah... | 23:38 |
| * texel stabs the Maemo home applet resize control savagely | 23:38 | |
| lcuk | texel, just pretend to do something else (like put it in your pocket) and it will resize for you | 23:38 |
| lcuk | you have to catch it unawares - it has to think you arent looking | 23:39 |
| texel | Haha | 23:39 |
| texel | Reminds me of that old joke video by Hunter Cressle about the Macintosh. =o) | 23:39 |
| * GeneralAntilles shakes his head at lcuk's insistence on using ad-hoc. | 23:39 | |
| texel | I still don't get why they haven't fixed that horrible interface. | 23:40 |
| texel | It's probably the worst piece in the whole Maemo platform. =o( | 23:40 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, :) if i had spare money to buy alternative wireless i would. i *know* its a problem but wtf can i do without any money? | 23:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Cut down on 2 cigarettes a day. | 23:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | You'll be set in a couple weeks. :P | 23:40 |
| qwerty12_N800 | ha | 23:40 |
| lcuk | i spend less than £2 a week on cigs | 23:40 |
| lbt | 5 weeks | 23:40 |
| lcuk | and i havent actually bought a packet now for nearly 2 months | 23:40 |
| lbt | I just bought an ADSL wifi router from digidave.co.uk for £10 shipped... | 23:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | OK, what other vices can we curtail? :D | 23:41 |
| lbt | food | 23:41 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, we have so little money in this house its not a joke :) | 23:41 |
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| lbt | meter ran out... | 23:41 |
| lbt | <ouch> | 23:42 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | i remember the meter i had where i had to go to the paypoint with the meters key >.< | 23:42 |
| lbt | I had a coin-op once... | 23:43 |
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| Atarii | qwerty12_N800 ive just left a student house with one of those :( | 23:47 |
| gourdin | anyone reading slashdot here on n8x0 ? | 23:48 |
| qwerty12_N800 | :(, i'd hate going to w.yorkshire with that meter, because i'd know the electric would be gone when i came back >.< | 23:49 |
| gourdin | don't you think browsing is terribly slow ? | 23:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Slashdot is fine here. | 23:49 |
| lbt | slashdot effect | 23:49 |
| gourdin | zomming in takes several seconds | 23:49 |
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| gourdin | ok | 23:50 |
| Raytray | It seems fine here as well, does the zoom thing happen for you on other websites as well? | 23:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | "zoom thing"? | 23:51 |
| Raytray | 16:47:04 < gourdin> zomming in takes several seconds | 23:51 |
| * Raytray shrugs. | 23:51 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh | 23:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | I never zoom | 23:51 |
| gourdin | GeneralAntilles: are you a cyborg ? :) | 23:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | No | 23:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm just not blind | 23:52 |
| gourdin | ok | 23:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Zooming takes about 2 seconds here | 23:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Normal | 23:52 |
| gourdin | what is the matter with you | 23:52 |
| Raytray | he is blind, he is just selective about what he reads. | 23:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's not really an easy process. | 23:52 |
| nomis | for the curious: this is how librsvg renders the osm-symbols: http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/files/osm/symbols.png | 23:53 |
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| nomis | eh. sorry. Wrong channel :) | 23:54 |
| gourdin | i m not blind either GeneralAntilles | 23:54 |
| gourdin | and it takes 6 seconds here | 23:55 |
| gourdin | roughly | 23:55 |
| gourdin | i find this a bit longm | 23:56 |
| gourdin | and sorry if i need to zoom | 23:56 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Eh, something could be broken | 23:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | 6 seconds sounds a bit long | 23:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | AdBlock installed? | 23:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Virtual memory enabled? | 23:57 |
| gourdin | yep | 23:57 |
| gourdin | yep | 23:57 |
| lbt | gourdin: slashdot uses a fairly complex CSS setup | 23:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | AdBlock might do it. | 23:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a pretty crappy plugin | 23:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Slows the browser WAY down. | 23:58 |
| gourdin | hmmmm | 23:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | CSS + adblocking CSS is the way to go. | 23:58 |
| gourdin | ok, i'll try disabling this plugin | 23:58 |
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| lcuk | filter on your router if possible | 23:58 |
| gourdin | GeneralAntilles: addblocking css ? | 23:59 |
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