IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2008-07-06

lardmaneven accessing shmem as an array from the DSP side I get shmem[1]=000:00
lardmanwhere it ought to be 8800:01
ShadowJKso, hm, does this "fanoush mmc speedhack" do anything on N810 Diablo?00:01
qwerty12_N800kinda, there is a patch for N800/N810 but a diablo kernel hasn't been compiled with it. I'd do it but i'm busy with diablo android kernel.00:03
lcuklardman, print out the actual contents of the first arbitary amount of data from shmem[0] and [1] and [2])00:03
lcukdont try and use them as pointers, just see if the data itself matches00:04
lardmanlcuk: shmem[0:3] = {99,0,0,0}00:04
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lardmanas array elements (shmem[x] and as pointers *(shmem+x))00:04
lcukare those direct from the actual data, because your code does extra cast to (unsigned short *)00:05
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lcukill brb, just got a stinky child to wash00:06
lardmanyes, they were casted as the dbg() fn can only take a short as it's input, I'll try without the case00:07
* GeneralAntilles pokes rm_you again.00:08
lardmanschool-boy error00:08
GeneralAntillesI just blame those on the fingers. ;)00:09
* GeneralAntilles tries to find a decent look other than un-styled html page.00:10
keesjtry "under-construction" ?00:10
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lcuklardman, was it a casting problem and is it solved00:15
lardmanno and no00:15
lardmanI'm beginning to wonder if more than 16bits are actually shared00:16
lcukits a damn shame we havent all got dsp in a box to be able to throw loads of mud at it to help you00:16
lardman~lart DSP00:16
* infobot gives DSP a good seeing to00:16
lardmanwell, close enough hey :)00:16
lardmanif slightly rude00:16
lcukis this dsp stuff all open?00:16
lardmanbut you'll need an x86 Linux box for the cross compiler00:17
lcukis the box you do the compilation from "clean" or is it just your general house computer00:17
lardmanmy house computer00:17
zapWhy many packages install a link to their .desktop file in /etc/others-menu/ ? I don't see such a requirement in maemo-packaging-policy.pdf00:17
lcukdamn, i wont ask you to make a vmware image from it then00:17
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lcukthough it would be a nice thing if a simple dsp dev image oculd be created00:18
lardmanit wouldn't be legally distributable though00:18
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lcukhmmm, not open - what prevents it?00:18
lardmanTi license agreement00:19
lcukahh, but its all free i take it00:19
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zapfree != redistributable00:19
lardmanfree as in ... hmm, I never know the difference00:19
lardmanzap: yep00:20
lcukyer zap, i see00:20
lcuklard, you have a char *chmem;   on the dsp thats initialized,    printf("%i,%i,%i,%i",shmem[0],shmem[1],shmem[2],shmem[3]); gives what you said up there?00:21
lcukor have you only been printing the values from sbc->input_flag,   sbc->input_length, ...)00:21
lardmanthough I have to cast each to short otherwise it returns 000:22
zapdsp understands exclusively int16 data type?00:22
lardmanI sometimes get {99,18,0,0}; I set the second value to 18 after displaying the data, so the memory is reused and unaltered (and the ARM doesn't overwrite it!)00:22
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lcuklardman, which creates the original memory map and which uses it00:24
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lcukARM allocate then dsp use after, or the other way round00:24
lardmanthe memory is shared, the ARM writes some ident values, the DSP tries to read them00:25
lardmanI don't know how the MMU does the sharing though00:25
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zapperhaps DSP just has access to the same address space00:27
zapso the kernel dsp driver just has to translate virtual -> physical address00:27
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lardmanyes, the SDRAM is mapped so both have access to the shared memory00:28
lcukthe call to shmget needs an identifier to know which shared memory block to get00:29
lcukone side of the process must allocate the original block?00:29
lardmanDSP allocates the original, then ARM maps it with mmap()00:30
lcukthats: static char shmem[MBUF_LENGTH];00:31
lcukthat you mentioned before00:31
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zapSo nobody knows what use has /etc/others-menu/ ?00:31
lardmanvery strange effect00:31
lardmanlooks like it's down to the size of the shared regions on both ARM & DSP00:32
lardmanif they are not the same (for example because one screwed up hex *0.5) it knackers everything00:32
lardmaneven if the shared regions are vastly larger than the memory being accessed (2*1024*16bits total, I'm only looking at the first 512 8bit bytes or so)00:33
qwerty12_N800zap, that's for debian00:33
lardmanmy fault completely00:33
zapqwerty12_N800: then why almost every maemo app creates a link in there?00:33
qwerty12_N800oh, soz wrong one, it's if you want to use maemo-select-menu-location00:34
qwerty12_N800 - password can be found but you can't do much :/00:34
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zapqwerty12_N800: don't you remember where that's documented? google gives lots of garbage, and nothing serious00:36
qwerty12_N800zap, no sorry, but I'd look into the postinst of the package00:37
qwerty12_N800i'm sure stuff gets done with it there00:37
zapI'm looking, but I want to understand why this is done00:37
zapand what the number means (like 0112_sylpheed.desktop)00:38
lcuklardman, i find all this dsp stuff fascinating and troubling at the same time.  i quite honestly believe there are dragons inside these machines00:39
* GeneralAntilles needs a new desktop, now.00:39
GeneralAntilles"Thar be dragons!"00:40
lcukzap, you asked me something at about 5am this morning but had left before i woke up00:40
lardmanhmm, film about dragons on now iirc00:40
lcukany idea what it was00:40
lcukwhich one00:40
lardmansomething about England being razed to the ground and some yanks coming and saving the day, usual make believe00:40
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ShadowJKdoes anyone know if there's a dct/idct that runs on the DSP?00:41
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lardmanShadowJK: yes there is00:41
ShadowJKdo you know if it's in mplayer/lavc yet?00:41
zaplcuk: 10:41:24 <zap>   lcuk: what you were meaning as "resolution"? Is this the physical screen resolution, or it's just the size of the buffer you're upscaling to 800x480?00:41
lardmanno, byt ssvb was thinking about it as a project00:42
lcukzap :) good thanks,   buffer is upscaled from (for instance) 640*480 to full screen, it works for various resolutions and is free to do (lcd hardware does it)00:42
zapbut YUV12 only?00:43
lcukits exactly the same as changing resolution for playing games00:43
lardmanShadowJK: and
lardmanShadowJK: and probably this one too:
lcuki believe it works nicer for the YUV mode i use is because its geared up to playing movies and essentially uses the TV channel on the display00:44
qwerty12_N800zap, the only page which documents the menu stuff has disappeared of the net :/00:44
ShadowJKbtw, has anyone figured out where the bottleneck is in getting mplayer to play higher res? Is it CPU or bandwidth to the display?00:44
lardmanzap: upscales which whatever picel formayt00:44
zapqwerty12_N800: thank you for looking, I didn't found it either :)00:44
lcukthats the way i read it all anyway, i might be wrong and its completely available (though unsupported in software) or rgb00:44
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* lardman really can't type any more00:44
lcukany more00:44
lcuki can00:45
zapwhat API should be used to upscale RGB data?00:45
zap(alt: does SDL use hardware acceleration for that)00:45
lcukomapfb :)00:45
zapsomething easier?00:45
lardmanlook at mplayer source, or liqbase, and just change the format00:45
zapmplayer uses YUV12 so it's not a prob for him00:45
lardmanformat enum that is00:45
lardmanwell just use a different one00:46
zapand liqbase uses YUV12 as well, afaik00:46
lardmanit works with RGB from the DSP side00:46
lcuklardmanxv library does not support rgb00:46
lardmanupscaling, etc.00:46
lcukomapfb very likely does00:46
lcukwell we know it does00:46
zapI don't understand why everybody uses yuv12 if omapfb supports rgb? this is kind of strange00:46
lardmanlcd controller bandwidth limir00:47
zapuqm port for example converts rgb to yuv12 just to make use of the scaler00:47
lcukrgb800*480 16bits per pixel is 800*480*2 bytes of data per page00:47
qwerty12_N800zap, :)00:47
lardmanyes in which case omapfb is the way to go, that's what the DSP stuff links into iirc00:47
ShadowJKYV12 is 12 bits per pixel, save 4 :-)00:47
lcukyuv800*480 16bits per pixel is 800*480*1 + 400*240*2 bytes of data per page00:47
lcukyuv800*480 24bits per pixel is 800*480*1 + 400*240*2 bytes of data per page00:47
lardmanzap: the conversion is done to get framerate00:48
lcukshat forget that one00:48
zapqwerty12_N800: thank a lot, although it does not mention /etc/others-menu00:48
zapgot it, 12bpp vs 16bpp00:48
* lardman goes to watch TV00:48
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lcuknight lard00:48
qwerty12_N800zap, I think it can be called in two ways. the others-menu may be an old tradition00:48
zaphmm, ok, so I can omit it :)00:49
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qwerty12_N800note it's for bora :)00:50
lcukdoctor who time00:51
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zapqwerty12_N800: thanks a lot for help00:52
qwerty12_N800np :)00:52
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timelyxqwerty12_N800: -ffast-math is evil. it literally violates math rules01:01
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timelyxif you're building something that does anything w/ math (e.g. mozilla) it'll crash01:01
timelyx(and it's not the code's fault, it's the existence of an invalid optimization)01:01
qwerty12_N800ouch, thanks for that, good to know01:02
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timelyxGeneralAntilles: :)01:03
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timelyxjott: there should be a new post to browser-extras relatively soon01:07
timelyxi reviewed it this past week :)01:07
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timelyxsp3000: disk cache isn't supported in microb in diablo01:08
timelyxi've asked romaxa to please fix that <asap>, but ...01:08
qwerty12_N800is that engine or ui problem?01:08
timelyxmy goal for the week is to ship w/ it pref disabled but configure enabled01:08
timelyxwe'd turn it on properly eventually... but i just want it at least avail as an opt...01:09
timelyxqwerty12_N800: the existence of settings to control cache in the ui is a bug :)01:10
timelyxbut the fact that the engine doesn't support disk cache was a "feature"01:10
timelyxwe were "optimizing for size"01:10
qwerty12_N800:/ :)01:10
timelyxand even though i asked people to profile the feature... no one did01:11
timelyxso nothing changed :(... i had hoped to change it before we shipped diablo01:11
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timelyxanyway, time to read my spam and find food01:11
timelyx~700 spams... yum01:12
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kkrustythe square button on the left of my n800 is blinking01:17
qwerty12_N800it's showing you it's love01:18
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kkrustyIts showing me that I have email :/01:18
kkrustyscared the s*it out of me01:19
timelyxyou can turn that feature off01:20
timelyxif you're me, you *must* turn that feature off01:20
kkrustytimelyx: agreed. Thats what Im doing now01:20
kkrustyI would imagine that this might've been a useful feature for someone who reads each and every email. I have about 200 unread ones01:22
qwerty12_N800w00t, browserd died with signal 1301:22
timelyxkkrusty: it's useful if you get 1 email per day randomly during the day01:22
timelyxif you get a dozen every minute otoh ..01:22
Kegetysserver side spam filtering is a good thing :)01:23
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timelyxwho said anything about spam?01:23
Kegetyswell, server side (whatever it is you dont care about) filtering then01:24
timelyxalthough, i just found that a mailinglist subscribe request was marked as spam01:24
timelyxgmail search = anything i don't care about, i don't have to read yet01:24
Kegetysdoesnt gmail allow you to put the mailing list posts to a different imap folder, and dont auto-download those to the device01:25
timelyxum, i don't know of a single MUA that can survive any of my mailboxes01:26
timelyxso i don't bother01:26
timelyxi tried a dozen or so MUAs over a year ago, they all failed miserably01:26
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timelyxand this wasn't posts. this was the "you must reply to this to subscribe"01:27
qwerty12_N800Does anyone still have mc_4.6.1-2_armel.deb? komputika is down :/01:29
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* GeneralAntilles scratches his head.01:33
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GeneralAntillesAny ideas?
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timelyxuse a faster pastebin =b01:34
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GeneralAntillesThe nice thing about browsing all the time is that it makes the rest of the internet feel way fast.01:35
timelyx2. you know that alt= is a *mandator* attribute of img, right?01:36
* timelyx sends the feds out to get GAN80001:36
GeneralAntillesYes, I removed it hoping it might change something01:36
GeneralAntillesbut alt doesn't have an effect01:37
* GeneralAntilles throws his N800 out the window.01:37
timelyxthis is in a single page?01:37
timelyxis this from an http server? (check logs?)01:37
timelyxstrace :)01:37
timelyxi assume the image is "tiny"?01:38
timelyxseems strange...01:38
timelyxin general, that's supposed to be coalesced as a single request w/ multiple observers by libpr0n01:38
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qwerty12_N800that lib always gets me01:40
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GeneralAntillesWell, that's about the strangest thing I've ever seen.01:44
GeneralAntillesI guess I'll forget about the pretty .install arrow for now.01:44
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* timelyx goes to review another 100+ spams01:50
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PsykosisAnyone know why running an app via shell will close it "okay" however running it from the hildon menus causes it to just lock up on close?01:53
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Atariianyone here?02:28
kkrustylook behind the furniture. Everyones hiding :)02:29
GeneralAntillesJust ceiling cat, and he's watching you fail at making that 770 not suck. :P02:30
Atariiyou win GA02:30
Atariiif i get this hob on monday, 810 upgrage is first on the list02:31
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Atariianyways, my question is, can i flash kernel only in windows? or just using the flasher3.0 in linux?02:31
GeneralAntillesThe Windows flasher doesn't support any cool features.02:33
Atariidamn, that's going to have to wait until tomorrow then, as my laptop is packed away02:33
Atariihmm unless i can do it via vmware....02:34
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* kkrusty wonders whether the flasher would work on maemo linux02:35
kkrustyof course it wouldnt without the sourcec02:35
GeneralAntillesMeh, Nokia bundles a flasher now02:36
PsykosisDoes VMWare even support USB?02:36
GeneralAntillesPsykosis, yes.02:36
timelyxvmware works02:36
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PsykosisOoo.. I must have missed that (runs off and plugs in a flash drive)02:36
qwerty12-N800Atarii, fanoush has an on device kernel flasher02:37
Atariiyea ive tried than befire and it broke it though :(02:38
Atariimy typing sucks tonight02:38
qwerty12-N800worked for me everytime :/02:38
ralanni have flashed via vmware02:45
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Atariiok here goes qwerty12-N800, on your head be it if it dies02:51
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crashanddienot to be a bitch or anything04:11
crashanddiebut why the fuck have I been removed from the Maemo Summit Participants page ?04:11
timelyxcan i complain that '-' is still showing up04:12
crashanddiethis is really not cool :/04:13
crashanddieHow to screw with a fucked up day: get gasoline splashed over your laptop, have someone you like move back to India to get *married*, and best of all, get simply *deleted* from the users at the Maemo Summit04:16
crashanddieNot even have Nokia refuse the sponsorship, which I can understand, simply, *deleted*04:17
timelyxfile a bug about the last one04:18
timelyxthe others ... well...04:18
crashanddieyeah right04:18
crashanddielike it's a bug04:18
timelyxit's a work task... requires investigation by a server admin04:19
timelyxthey fix my bugs :)04:19
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crashanddielcuk_, you around ?04:23
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DekaritaeJust wondering, has anyone used one of these before?04:26
DekaritaeThe reserve price for these appears to be around $40004:28
yigalDekaritae: looks pretty hot04:30
DekaritaeHow so?04:30
DekaritaeWell, it looked intriguing. But my choice right now is between the Samsung Q1 and the Asus R2H04:32
yigal? it has some nice specs and has a linux by default, I don't know I just bought a n800 that is enough for me04:32
DekaritaeYeah, I have an N800 but it's not sufficient. The best book reader lacks too many features and there is no decent PIM suite04:33
DekaritaeI find myself carrying my Palm around instead04:33
crashanddieDekaritae, stick around for a bit04:33
crashanddieDekaritae, fancy new apps coming soon04:33
DekaritaeOh hmm?04:33
yigalDekaritae: I'm a command line user mutt, irssi simple tools on a terminal and n800 can provide this functionality for me, so it is enough04:34
yigalfor me04:34
DekaritaeYou mean "new and not GPE"?04:34
DekaritaeI used those, and passed. mCalendar is a good start, though04:34
Dekaritaecrashanddie: My issue with fbreader is that it does not visually mark visited hyperlinks in document as "visited". This makes it unusable for me04:36
* lcuk_ knows a calender would float really well04:37
crashanddieadd a feature request, or submit a patch04:37
crashanddiehey mate04:37
DekaritaeAlready have, no response04:37
crashanddielcuk_, you any idea why I got removed from the Maemo Summit registered participants page ?04:37
DekaritaeI have the source for the maemo port, been meaning to poke a bit at it04:38
lcuk_evening, nope just reading what you put now04:38
lcuk_i hadnt looked at it since finding out i was going04:38
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crashanddieneedless to say, I'm pissed04:40
yigalhopefully drunk also04:40
yigalpissed drunk04:41
yigalsorry, I'm amusing myself, not intending to be at any body's exspense04:41
Atariilcuk_ you feeling chirpy?04:42
lcuk_no unfortunatly, on very last legs before sleep, just spotted it binging04:42
yigalcan the stylus for the n8xx be mastered to get a reasonable typing speed, 30wpm or so?04:43
crashanddielcuk_, how's the garage getting along ?04:43
lcuk_atarii, the repo you use to get gcc from is the same one that scratchbox uses04:43
crashanddieyigal, frankly, I barely use the stylus for typing04:43
crashanddieyigal, I have an n810 though04:43
crashanddieyigal, when I have to do extensive typing on it, I nick the bluetooth keyboard from the PS304:44
lcuk_once you have that its a case of installing the other things required, make and dev libraries04:44
Atariiright, thanks04:44
lcuk_if you cant find it ill give you more info tomorrow04:44
yigalcrashanddie: yes, I have just purchased 4 hours ago an n800, ok so is the stylus more or less useless for inputing keys?04:44
lcuk_im off 2 bed04:44
crashanddielcuk_, night man, have a good one04:45
Atariiok cyas04:45
lcuk_yigal, the OSK on 800 is very thumb friendly04:45
yigallcuk_: gnight04:45
crashanddielcuk_, btw, will you be flying out from London or Midlands ?04:45
yigallcuk_: I want to use the xterm quite a lot if possible04:45
lcuk_would be manchester04:45
lcuk_yigal, get a bt keyboard then04:46
crashanddieyigal, I'd suggest getting a bt keyboard too if you want to type a lot04:46
yigalhmm, so the stylus cannot be used via training etc. for a non-slow input tool04:47
yigalit is slow that is?04:47
yigalcrashanddie: definately a keyboard04:47
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yigalcrashanddie: but if I'm sitting under a tree philosophizing it would be nice to use the stylus rather than an external keyboard04:48
yigaleven if I'm getting on the order of 20wpm04:48
Atariimaybe if you got REALLY good using the handwriting you could do it pretty quick04:48
yigalAtarii: I like chop sticks, and it is kind of exciting for me to use a stylus for this purpose04:49
Atariias a chop stick?04:49
yigalAtarii: well there are 2 of these that come in the box :) , no I'm just giving an example of dexterity exercises I find enjoyable04:49
yigalthe purpose being to use the stylus as a writing tool, like a pencil04:50
yigalis 20wpm out of the question, 30, 40?04:51
timelyxDekaritae: i have a crash dump from a BSOD from a Samsung Q1 :)04:51
timelyxit was only moderately fun to kill and took <<15mins04:51
timelyxsadly, i don't have dumps for nokia phones or ipod touches04:52
timelyxeven though i've killed a number of the former, and at least my coworker has killed the latter04:52
timelyxbut, that's because they don't seem to support public dump files :(04:52
timelyxit's just a note about software quality and oom handling04:53
timelyxthe n800 ime seems to be considerably more robust04:53
timelyxsure the browser will probably crash eventually04:53
timelyxbut usually the device itself isn't going to reboot04:53
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Atariiunless its a 770...04:54
timelyxi did say n800, didn't i? :)04:54
yigalAtarii: so the stylus can be mastered? :)04:55
timelyxthe 770s were indeed not so great wrt oom handling :(04:55
Atariii guess so yigal04:55
Atariii wouldn't like to use it for too long though, it's not the most comfortable thing04:55
yigalAtarii: is it worse than writing on a small piece of paper?04:56
yigalAtarii: don't answer I'll find out soon enough04:57
Atariihard to say as i dont use the handwriting function04:58
Atariialthough i should teach it, i guess it would be quicker than the kbd then04:58
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DekaWeird little Eee clone:
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johnxyeah, what the heck is an "xburst 32 bit"?05:11
chibiAcydknockoff of an xscale?05:11
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johnxthat was my first though too05:12
johnxinteresting to put an ARM in such a big device05:12
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crashanddieand since when is processor different from CPU ?05:13
crashanddieLinux 2.4 ? How is that an operating system ? That's merely a kernel, and an old one at that05:13
crashanddieAnd there is no support for flash for 2.405:13
johnxI googled "jz430" and it's definitely embedded, but I still don't know the instruction set...05:13
chibiAcydyes there is, flash 605:13
crashanddieis that still even in use ,05:14
crashanddiehonestly... Flash 6... was about as powerful as a .gif ?05:14
crashanddie"Network Access: ADSL"05:14
chibiAcydmost sites require flash905:14
crashanddieerhm, so it has a xDSL modem included ?05:14
crashanddieRAM: "4*32MB" is that some fancy pantsy way of saying 128 ?05:15
crashanddiejohnx, it's RISC05:16
johnxok, that narrows out a couple architectures05:16
johnxah, wait RISC the architecture? as in MIPS?05:17
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crashanddieThink so05:17
crashanddie"XBurst RISC instruction set to support Linux and WinCE"05:18
johnxright, and this:
crashanddieThat CPU is about as powerful as the one in the n8x005:20
crashanddiewell, almost05:20
johnxyou really can't compare two different CPUs MHz to MHz05:21
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crashanddieI'm out to bed05:25
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DekaConfound it all. The season finale of Doctor Who is downloading and I'm leaving for a party in ten minutes06:09
chibiAcydmy cable got shut off about halfway through the season06:12
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timelyxchibiAcyd: my cablebox requires a remote, and over a month ago, it stopped listening to the remote. so i can't watch anything06:43
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freet15 I have some question about moblin kernel build.06:53
freet15is there any body get an error like this : debian/ruleset/misc/ *** Error. I do not know where the kernel image goes to [kimagedest undefined] The usual case for this is that I could not determine which arch or subarch this machine belongs to. Please specify a subarch, and try again..  Stop.06:53
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chibiAcydthat sucks timelyx06:56
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Grackle_Ah, I found my spare N800 stylus. *has a stylus again*07:00
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dieman[ignore the display of the radio, obviously 932 degrees E does not exist :)]07:04
Grackle_whee ham radio07:04
diemanalso, doh, left my cell phone on those photos07:05
* dieman fixes taht up07:05
diemannot like its hard to get07:05
* Grackle_ wonders what interesting things he could do with his N800 right now07:06
diemanheh, all better now07:07
diemanGrackle_: you a ham?07:07
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Grackle_Yeah, my call is KB1FYR. I'm a technician class. Licensed in 2000. I was 10 years old then. o.o07:08
Grackle_I'm not very active, but I like to pick up a ham radio project every once in a while.07:08
diemanwell, your license is probally still active :)07:08
Grackle_I'm mostly interested in data.07:08
Grackle_Yeah, it'll be active for another 2 years.07:08
diemanim trying to get roadmap to interface with the D700a07:08
diemanreasonably enough07:09
Grackle_I'll upgrade to general sometime before it goes away.07:09
diemanthen, start looking at porting xastr someday07:09
Grackle_xastir is pretty heavy, unfortunately07:09
diemanim guessing the chances are about nil :)07:09
Grackle_Also it uses the yuq widget set07:09
diemanthe whole graphical end of it would need, uh, help07:10
diemansomeone was looking at a gtk port07:10
diemanonce upon a time07:10
diemanbut im guessing it got nowhere07:10
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diemanbasically i get people really interested until they go 'can i send objects'07:11
diemanand im like, uh, no07:11
diemanof course, in this state i dont think you can mount laptops in your car anymore without getting a ticket07:12
Grackle_Heh, most people seem to think porting it from motif to gtk or qt is a dumb idea, because it doesn't need to look pretty, and motif is more lightweight. Except.. It's not. gtk and qt are quite modern and very lightweight systems can be built around them. Usability would be much improved, too..07:12
diemanalso: motif == 90s, just in case they were wondering07:12
Grackle_haha, indeed07:13
diemansounds like they might go to wxwidgets or something since they want non-x11 now07:16
diemannon-x11 support07:16
diemani might just wait until someone either goes for wxwidgets or makes pluggable interfaces07:16
diemandownside: someone is going insane with requirements and use cases.07:17
Grackle_I think pluggable interfaces would be the way to go.07:17
diemanand uml07:17
Grackle_I'd like to see an APRS program built on the gmaps API.07:17
diemanone thought i read on the list was to split a daemon from the UI07:17
diemanand let people hack on their own UIs07:17
diemanbut i dont know if thats what they are thinking now07:17
Grackle_I don't think xastir is active enough for radical changes, really.07:18
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diemani did prod the mameo mapper people about some ideas i had07:19
diemanthey seemend receptive.07:19
diemanmostly multilayer display (they want that too anyhow)07:19
diemanand throwing objects/waypoints back and forth with external apps07:19
diemani've been messing with roadmap since it already had an api for working with external apps07:20
diemanand OSM is pretty slick07:20
Grackle_uhoh, I have suffered from loss of borders and graphical widgets07:23
* Grackle_ had this happen before, but not in diablo07:23
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diemanyou use omweather?07:23
diemani had omweather crash the wm a few times a day07:24
diemanat one point07:24
diemananyhow, as can be seen in the photos, i've been having fun with powerpoles :)07:24
diemanand i learned that making up a 12V->5V adaptor isn't that hard07:25
Grackle_ This is what happened.07:26
timelyxdieman: i thought motif was 80s07:26
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diemannetscape navigator used it07:26
diemanso i feel it was still in massive use during much of the 90s07:26
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diemanGrackle_: ahh suck07:27
timelyxAnswer: Motif is a widely-accepted set of user interface guidelines developed07:28
timelyxby the Open Software Foundation (OSF) around 1989 which specifies how an X07:28
timelyx80s :)07:28
timelyxi'm not saying it wasn't still in use in the 90s, i certainly remember that07:30
timelyxbut from my perspective, what matters is when something was created07:30
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diemantimelyx: ahh :)07:39
diemantimelyx: dunno, my unix-foo only goes back to the 90s, too :)07:40
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esworpso, i'm curious, what can i accomplish with aircrack?08:05
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Grackle_Holy crap, only allows you to have 3 messages in your inbox and outbox combined.08:07
* Grackle_ has a sent message, a reply, and a sent message08:08
Grackle_Hopefully the forum software handles overflows nicely, so I can get a reply to the third message..08:08
Grackle_This is really silly. >.>;08:08
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Grackle_Fucking ridiculous. ITT really does enforce the 3 message maximum. Sent message, get reply, sent followup, and I can't get anything after that without deleting some of the previous conversation.09:20
Grackle_Like, I was sent another message, and it notified me of the fact that it threw it out. Gee, thanks.09:21
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GNUtonHi there09:28
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GNUtonhey freet1509:50
freet15GNUton: I have a problem during compile the kernel of moblin : debian/ruleset/misc/ *** Error. I do not know where the kernel image goes to [kimagedest undefined] The usual case for this is that I could not determine which arch or subarch this machine belongs to. Please specify a subarch, and try again..  Stop.09:54
acydlordis diablo 4.0 or 4.1 in bugzilla?09:55
freet15OH ?09:55
freet15acydlord: you know a solution to this issue?09:56
acydlordsure dont09:56
summatusmentisfreet15: the solution is there in the error. Specify a subarch09:58
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freet15summatus|away: subarch .... I have tryed.10:02
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GNUtonacydlord: diablo is 4.110:06
GNUtonfreet15: do you have specified a valid subarch?10:07
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zapAnybody got locale to work in scratchbox? I can't get it to work under either DIABLO-X86 or DIABLO-ARM10:17
zapsetlocale (LC_ALL, "") always returns "C" no matter what's the value of $LANG10:18
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freet15GNUton: ..... I wish it was valid....10:20
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timelyxdieman: yeah, well the internet was around before 1990 :)10:43
diemantimelyx: heh10:44
diemanthe only 'internet' i had for a few years was when i was at the open house my dad's workplace had (GE)10:44
diemanthey had a pile of computers 'on the web'10:44
diemanback when tables where a newfangled way to view yahoo.com10:45
diemancomputers being sparc 2's10:45
diemanand stuff10:45
* timelyx remembers the web before tables :)10:45
diemanthey may have had some 20s by then10:45
diemanyeah, i had overdosed on bbs-ing and got uh, directed away from the 'internet' for a while10:45
timelyx(in fact, i remember gopher)10:45
diemanas a kid10:45
diemanyeah, i happen to uh, work where they came up with gopher, sort of.10:46
timelyxyeah, i used more bbs than internet for a while10:46
timelyxbut i eventually found a bbs that would be my internet gateway10:46
diemannot in the same group, but at the same university10:46
timelyxinstead of a local library which offered a gopher => web gateway10:46
diemani lived in milwaukee, so it was execpc or die at the time10:46
diemanpretty much10:46
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diemanfor internets10:46
diemanthey basically cornered the market10:46
diemansince they had more dialup lines than god10:47
diemanback before everyone went to channelized t1 lines10:47
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zaphow to build a debian source package?12:17
qwerty12dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot12:18
qwerty12fakeroot debian/rules binary is another way12:19
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qwerty12The diablo one just says dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot12:20
zapthats how to build a binary package12:21
zapbut I need to build a .src.deb or how it is called in debian12:22
zapaha, dpkg-buildpackage -S12:23
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yergazap, the autobuilder want something similar to "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -sa -S"12:25
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pupniksorry misread your question zap12:25
qwerty12If any of you deal in BB5 flashing, is there a file that exists called: RX-34_v6_0_4200823-14.exe ?12:26
freet15any body compile the kernel from
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zaphmm, this built a single tar.gz package but if I do apt-get source I get a separate source archive and a separate diff.gz file12:31
qwerty12Never mind, found it. Nokia files get leaked like a bitch. :P12:34
yergazap, I think if you do 'apt-get source'  the diff file is applied automatically to the package12:39
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lcukok, which hooligan moved my tobacco?12:41
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* qwerty12 wishes that the N800_Schematics were better quality :(12:42
rm_youlcuk: so, i looked at the code for your reader and decided that i'm not the least bit qualified to be messing with that :P12:42
rm_youbut i may try anyway12:42
rm_youalso, omgwtfbbq at Dr. Who12:43
lcukits ok rm :) for now its technology demo12:43
rm_youwas there a new ep today/yesterday?12:43
lcukomgwtfbbq doesnt even come close, you need to add ponies and sharks with laser beams12:43
* qwerty12 wishes that the retardis would blow itself up with the cast in it :P12:43
lcukyer, finale12:43
lcuk:D retardis12:43
rm_youomgwtfbbq watching it in like 10 minutes when it finishes DLing :P12:44
lcuki think one day they will land in albert square, qwerty12 let us know when it does ;)12:44
rm_youomgwtfbbq found it at 720p :P12:44
qwerty12lcuk, I hope not. :P12:44
lcuki watched it legal and quickly via flash12:44
* rm_you is not in the UK? >_>12:45
qwerty12I never used iPlayer, the one time I wanted to watch kidulthood, I couldn't find it there >.<12:45
lcukbbc are putting entire archives up on there soon :)12:45
lcukbbc ftw!12:46
qwerty12Yep :)12:46
rm_youlcuk: does it work in linux?12:46
lcukdoes what work? flash12:46
* qwerty12 doesn't watch ITV as much anymore compared to bbc12:46
qwerty12rm_you, it's in flash. ofc flash is dodgy in linux so ymmv :/12:47
rm_youi thought i heard BBC used some microsoft-only DRM12:47
qwerty12I think for a while they used windows media player to stream the stuff12:47
qwerty12Now it's just flash, I can even watch the stuff (shitly) on a tabket12:48
infobotqwerty12 meant: Now it's just flash, I can even watch the stuff (shitly) on a tablet12:48
lcuki never liked itv, their kids tv stuff was always second rate (apart from funhouse with the twins) :D12:48
qwerty12I know, so I switched to CBeebies ^-^12:48
lcuk:D heh12:49
lcukgordon the gopher ruled the world12:49
qwerty12POW. And how long has the image of diablo been out: ?12:50
yergalcuk, the source is in the garage?12:50
lcuknot yet its not12:50
qwerty12lcuk, I can feel my fingers tingling!12:51
lcukim trying to get svn working here12:51
qwerty12(And for the unaware, that's a quote from fimbles, smth like that, my brother watched it, not me!)12:51
lcukqwerty12, is your top knot twitching?12:51
qwerty12Not as far I can tell :/12:51
zapqwerty12: what ROM is that?12:51
yergalcuk, and where can I found the source? :)12:51
qwerty12zap, - you'll understand it more :)12:52
lcukyerga, on svn in a few days as soon as i manage to get it all sorted here :)12:52
qwerty12I just grabbed the file that matches with diablo of torrent just now12:52
yergaok, I will check it12:52
* lcuk apologises for any inconvenience whilst his inexperience is sorted12:53
yergalcuk, no problem, it's all ok ;)12:53
lcukrm_you, you thought i would never ever unlock the source didn't ya12:54
rm_youlcuk: yeah, i really didn't ;P12:55
lcukyerga, have you seen the video and stuff and tried the binary?12:55
qwerty12lmao, I can even print out the nokia label next to my memory card with the mac on it12:55
yergalcuk, yes, it's cool12:56
yergabut i have a problem12:56
lcuki hate the way google asks me: "Did you mean: ligbase"    wtf is a liqbase12:56
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lcukoooer whats the prob12:56
yergait only is shown in half window12:56
lcukare you using rotation12:56
qwerty12yerga, you don't have android installed do you?12:57
qwerty12hi lardman12:57
yergaandroid is installed12:57
lcuk"A Structural Database of Aligned Ligand Binding Sites"12:57
qwerty12yerga, yes, framebuffer is set to automatic in that kernel I compiled, use fanoush's fb_update_mode to set it to manual12:57
qwerty12(auto messes up programs that use xsp etc)12:57
yergaok, qwerty12 , thanks12:58
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rm_youlcuk: if you can't get SVN working, note:
lcukqwerty12, thanks for that bit of diagnostics.  you are going to be an extremely worthwhile asset to any company when you grow up if you stick at this12:58
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qwerty12Thanks! :)12:59
* lcuk tosses a coin13:00
lcuk(no dirty jokes please)13:00
rm_youooo is it a two hour episode!?13:01
lcukno, but its longer than normal13:01
rm_youit's like twice the filesize i'm used to13:01
lcukand you have it at higher resolution13:01
lcukand probably translated into 17 languages13:02
rm_youif the US wasn't like 3 or so weeks behind, i would just watch it on TV >_>13:02
qwerty12Come to the UK, watch it on iPlayer and go back :P13:03
pupniklcuk: money arrive yet?13:03
rm_youdamn, season 1 won't QUITE fit on a single DVD >_<13:03
lcuki havent checked the bank today (mind you i never check the bank)13:03
pupnikk i'll check today or tomorrow13:03
Jaffalcuk: seen it yet?13:06
lcukjaffa!!!!!!! yer13:07
lcukhave you (properly)13:07
lcukwhen i create a binary in windows, im used to the version being embedded inside it, do i do this with binaries for this device and how do i manage version numbers and build numbers etc13:08
rm_youlcuk: convention is to have command line --version ? i think13:09
rm_youor check "version" by md5sum13:10
lcuklardman, ive just grabbed your sbc from svn and ill do similar, but i can only put up a normal makefile, i cant do ./configure or .in files and all that stuff13:10
lcukrm_you, yes, thats fine, but do i have to manually update the version every time i build it13:10
rm_youwith a .deb?13:11
rm_youthere is a debian/changelog13:11
rm_youand it gets the version out of that13:11
lcukwell if its in the deb then its not in the binary and i cant use ./liqbase --version can i...13:11
rm_youoh, no you have to manually update THAT13:11
lcukreally? how quant13:11
rm_youlike i said, md5sum is prolly the best way to keep track13:12
lcukno its not because users arent gonna know that version ab2383abbaabddb32834 is older than version aa293423842348aa13:12
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lcukno its not because users arent gonna know that version ab2383abbaabddb32834 is older than version aa293423842348aa13:13
rm_you<rm_you> if you're talking about an intelligent updater or similar13:13
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rm_youfor --version you do have to update it manually, yes :/13:14
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qwerty12I don't know much but can't you like make version have a "date" variable when it was compiled?13:14
rm_youthough if you WANTED, you could make the version a define, and add a thing to your makefile that automatically gets it and increments it every time you do a make >_>13:14
rm_youah, or that would work if you want to do date based versioning13:15
lcukqwerty12, yes, that is available and can be placed into a const char[]13:15
Jaffalcuk: yeah, I've seen it on my laptop at good enough quality13:15
Jaffalcuk: Rather natty.13:15
lcukjaffa, your mud builder isnt binary is it13:16
* qwerty12 is really happy. Pheoenix 2008 is cracked. Yes, I know it's wrong but as it's a nokia internal app, I aint ever gonna see it.13:17
Jaffalcuk: no, basically Perl driving standard debian scripts like dh_make, and dpkg-buildpackage13:18
qwerty12rm_you, I should be able to mess around with the internals of my N800:
rm_youwhat is it >_>13:19
yergaqwerty12, what's Pheoenix?13:19
qwerty12Nokia program that the Nokia service shops use. I had a copy before but it was non-cracked so I couldn't actually connect to my N800 with it.13:20
rm_yousearching for it, all i can find are qwerty12's posts <_<13:20
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qwerty12A flasher that the nokia centers use, as you can guess, it can do more than the standard windows flasher and even some things more than the linux one.13:21
yergais it only for windown?13:21
lardmanlcuk: sorry for the slow reply13:21
lardmanlcuk: what do you want to do, build it?13:22
lardmanlcuk: ah, you're thinking about what to put with liqbase?13:22
lcukno lardman :) just look at how you're source is arranged :)  ive downloaded a bunch of different projects now and none are really in the debian format (/src folder)13:22
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lardmanI only have the configure stuff as the code is a drop in replacement for the bits in bluez-utils, otherwise I'd have a simple Makefile13:23
lardmanMy code structure is not right either, you should have a trunk, then bits coming off that13:23
lcukyer i see you do for some bits13:23
lcukits ok, it makes me feel not so bad about having everything in one folder13:23
lardmanthe Makefile, etc. makes no odds, as long as it can be built all is well13:23
* lcuk grew organically13:23
lardmando think about when you want to branch to make test releases though, my strucutre is nasty - mk2, mk3, etc.13:24
lcukive already got myself a "backup entire folder now with a title" function13:24
lcukim just gonna push to svn at the end of that .sh13:24
lardmanyou should also add comments to your commit: svn commit -m "first release"13:25
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lcukyer, if you go into my source folder, you will see a .sh called kotczarny originally wrote for me right at the start.  it asks me for a title and zips up the entire folder using foldername_date_reason.tar.gz13:26
lcukso ill just do svn passing it the reason and my workflow doesnt change at the end of the day13:27
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VeggenThe flimsy charger has broken again.13:31
lcukveggen, where are you shoving it to break it?13:31
Veggenlcuk: it breaks far too easily. But I very often use my tablet with the charger in.13:32
Veggenguess I shouldn't do that.13:32
lcuki do as well, its between monitor and kb13:32
lcukor do you mean on your knee13:32
lcukif its off your desk i can understand actually13:33
Veggenit is, often.13:33
lcuki use a cradle for mine
lcukso when charger is in it is kinda protected (you can see where it goes)13:34
* timelyx sighds13:35
Kegetysthats quite high tech13:35
lcukits made of wood, its so high tech even jesus's dad could have made it :P13:35
Kegetyswhat about the rubber band13:36
qwerty12ooh, rubber band!13:36
lcukshhhhh dont tell everyone13:36
* qwerty12 goes into espionage mode13:36
JaffaRight. Time to ditch this house and head home.13:37
lcukcya jaffa13:37
lardmanhmm bus error, but at least the code is running13:37
lcuk"Error: Stagecoach service #182 does not run on Sundays" ??13:38
qwerty12I had a bus error with something that used the framebuffer, didn't know what to do next so I left it :P13:38
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rm_youlol yeah i dunno what bus error is really :/ only one i understand fully is seg fault :P13:38
lcukmornin lbt13:39
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rm_youooo stargate continuum is out too :P13:39
lardmanI think it comes when you look where you shouldn't13:40
qwerty12I thought that was a slap?13:40
lcuklardman :D does this mean you actually got the shm working (to a degree)13:42
lcukcos you muttered something about the window size between processors and ran off laughing like a maniac13:42
lardmanlcuk: oh yeah, that's working13:43
lcuk:D wicked13:43
lardmanah yes, that was my problem, I made a mistake dividing my hex buffer size by 213:43
rm_youlardman: so, status on SBC?13:43
lardmanstrange behaviour though for a mistake like that13:43
* rm_you is always hopeful13:43
lcukSBCC is TBC13:44
lardmanrm_you: the shared memory one is running, very very slowly - need to optimise the polling, and has a bus fault atm13:44
lcuki gather you didnt look into the timing things13:44
rm_youoff to watch the season finale :P bbl13:44
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lcukcya later rm, enjoy and watch to the very end13:45
lcukincluding credits13:45
lardmanlcuk: There are no clocks available, most of the CLK_* fns are not available13:45
lcukok, ill stop asking :D13:45
lardmanannoying though, have to do wasteful polling13:46
qwerty12Bye :). I'll have to restart my computer a few times to install phoenix.13:46
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lcukyes, but polling is a different problem isnt it?  like the sleep thing you wanted13:46
lardmanah, you're talking about using clocks for benchmarking/optimisation?13:47
lardmancan't do that either, afaict13:47
lcukyes, the sleep thing was something totally seperate and i thought you said it was using an uninitialized mutex thing: there are funcs to start/stop them if i read it correctly13:48
lcuk(but knowing my luck/knowledge of the dsp at the mo i havent)13:48
lardmana semaphore, but that semaphore must be linked into the realtime clock and incremented by that13:49
lardmanand that would require changes to the dsp kernel13:49
lardmanI think13:49
lcukim sure something like this is required for core stuff and should be inside the kernel already13:51
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lcukit doesnt make sense to leave it out13:51
slwhy would you want a semaphore to be linked into a clock ?13:52
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lardmancrashanddie: that's how the CLK_sleep() fn works13:53
lcukyou are copying data from main memory into SRAM on the 242013:53
lcukis that function possible for the ARM itself?13:54
lardmanyou tell it how many ticks you want to sleep for, and it then does pend(clk_sem, nticks)13:54
crashanddiewhat, using an archaic while (!allowed to run) usleep (50) ?13:54
lardmanlcuk: no, just sharing SDRAM13:54
lardmancrashanddie: I don;t know how the semaphore should be decremented, but there are no clocks available on the DSP afaict atm13:55
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lardmancrashanddie: so my archaic code is now while(!allowed to run), loop lots of times, loop lots of times13:55
crashanddielardman, so you coded your own semaphore ?13:56
lcukmorning sl btw :P13:56
crashanddiehai :)13:56
crashanddie*nothing better than waking up and discussing CPAM13:56
lardmancrashanddie: I'd prefer to poll and then sleep, but sleep doesn't work13:57
lcuki gotta see what kind of a performance boost i can get by using that memory13:57
crashanddielardman, you're trying to run stuff right off the dsp, right ?13:57
lcukthere 5mb inside the 2420 itself13:57
lardmanlcuk: what's that?13:57
crashanddieSHIT WASP BRB13:57
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lcukthe 2420 has its own actual SRAM memory onboard - its what pvr and stuff do13:58
lcuk5-Mb internal SRAM boosts streaming media performance13:58
lardmanthe dsp has sram13:58
lcukim betting that accessing that memory will be faster than having to come out of the chip to get at the 128mb13:58
lcuktreat it like x86 cache13:59
GeneralAntillesGrackle_, you gotta post, like, 4 posts and it jumps up to 50 or 100.13:59
GeneralAntillesrm_you, poke.13:59
lcukGeneralAntilles, hes gone watching dr who13:59
GeneralAntillesHooker. . . .13:59
lardmanlcuk: no idea how you can get to it though14:00
lcuklardman, storing images or data within that memory and processing internally before squirting out finished data onto normal framebuffer would be a nice thing if it can be done14:00
lcukim betting its just a specified memory region possibly available for mapping, ill keep it in mind for when im in the right place14:01
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, you know none of us can answer your question about the registration page, right? Bitching here isn't going to solve it. ;) You gotta actually contact the people who know what's going on.14:01
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, did I say anything about it this morning ?14:01
GeneralAntillesI'm still going through the scrollback.14:02
crashanddieright, so you'll understand that I was pissed last night14:02
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GeneralAntillesWell, did you file a bug or email somebody? :P14:02
crashanddiebut if you have a name, I'll be happy to take it14:03
Andy80hi all14:03
GeneralAntillesBugzilla, or X-Fade or Quim would be good options.14:03
GeneralAntillesThough Quim's at GUADEC for the time being.14:03
crashanddieyou honestly believe I should have to file a bug ?14:03
GeneralAntillesSeeing as how it's probably a bug, yes.14:04
crashanddieAt the moment, I'm not going to contact anyone, cuz I'm a bit too much of an ass right now14:04
aquatixhm, anybody knows of aircrack-ng for os2008/diablo?14:04
aquatixcan only find it for os2007 and the 77014:05
crashanddieaquatix, it is around for diablo IIRC14:05
aquatixodd, couldn't find it in maemo's reps14:05
Andy80aquatix, same problem here.... I cannot find kismet too14:05
Andy80it looks like nobody is interested in them...14:07
crashanddieaquatix, gronmayer tells me its in the mulliner repo14:07
aquatixcrashanddie: yeah, found that one, but it notes nokia77014:07
aquatixhm, chinook14:07
crashanddieI see chinook14:07
* aquatix tries14:07
crashanddieAndy80, their use is highly restrained as there is no packet injection available14:08
crashanddieAndy80, and airodump has false positives about the encryption used, sees ghost packets, etc14:08
aquatixah? because of the nokia wireless driver or something?14:08
Andy80I just need kismet with gps support, to be able to map wifi networks14:09
* aquatix just wants to crack some wep networks14:09
aquatixoh, did i just say that out loud? :)14:09
crashanddieAndy80, old but still accurate14:11
crashanddieaquatix, usually I'll just map wep networks by foot with my NIT, then park the car with my laptop14:11
crashanddierecon if you will :P14:12
* aquatix just wants internet when he's somewhere ;)14:12
aquatixand i don't use my laptop much anymore14:12
crashanddiegoing to watch doctor who series finale14:13
aquatixdamn you14:13
* aquatix still needs to watch season 314:13
aquatixhf :)14:14
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Andy80this is the problem when all the code is not open14:15
Andy80see ya later14:17
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lardmansigbus is confusingly caused by a poll error14:20
lardmanI'm not sure it's good programming practise for the dsp kernel to crash when one of the tasks doesn't respond to a poll14:21
lardmanI'll have to add a bug14:21
lardmanfeels like Win3.1, have to add a yield() call in my polling loop14:22
lardmanhmm, I fear this code (with these loop params) will be quite slow compared with the bulk transfer code, it takes ~1s per transfer atm14:23
lardmanand there are 5023 (iirc) transfers....14:23
lardmanctrl-c, got to ~5min, so not really competitive with the previous DSP attempt at ~20s all in (or ARM at ~3s!)14:24
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lardman1m55s, getting better; more loop tweaking to do14:29
lcuklardman, you know the bit in apollo 13 where the engineers are trying to restart the ship under a certain number of amps?   well i get the same feeling here.. ;)14:38
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GeneralAntillesdneary, since we did SD booting yesterday, perhaps would be good for today?14:41
GeneralAntillesSince the former kinda depends on the latter.14:41
dnearyGeneralAntilles: Good call!14:42
dnearyWould you mind stripping the Midgard stuff & setting WPotD on partitioning?14:42
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GeneralAntilles | Diablo Released! | | Maemo Summit: | Create the new logo: | Help fix the Wiki Page of the day for July 5th:
*** GeneralAntilles changes topic to " | Diablo Released! | | Maemo Summit: | Create the new logo: | Help fix the Wiki Page of the day for July 5th:"14:45
*** GeneralAntilles changes topic to " | Diablo Released! | | Maemo Summit: | Create the new logo: | Help fix the Wiki Page of the day for July 6th:"14:46
rm_youlol wow.... >_> time to grab the Confidential14:49
* GeneralAntilles pokes rm_you with as tick for the 5th time.14:50
GeneralAntilless/as tick/a stick/14:50
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: | Diablo Released! | | Maemo Summit: | Create the new logo: | Help fix the Wiki Page of the day for July 5th: https://wi...14:50
GeneralAntillesSo, I put together a www for the Garage page14:50
GeneralAntillesYou want to commit it or give me commit access so I can?14:50
rm_youi thought you had it14:51
GeneralAntillesDon't think so.14:51
GeneralAntillesAt least, it's not accepting my authentication.14:51
lardmanlcuk: thankfully no-one will die if it takes too long14:51
lardmanlcuk: which is a good thing as I have to nip out and buy some food14:51
lcukok lol14:52
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rm_youGeneralAntilles: you watch Doctor Who? >_>14:53
GeneralAntillesNot yet14:53
rm_youyeah, you have write access on SCM14:54
* GeneralAntilles idiot14:55
GeneralAntillesGeneralAntilles -> generalantilles14:55
GeneralAntillesand there we go
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GeneralAntillesThe body could use more interesting formatting, but it's small-screen friendly right now and looks OK.15:02
qwerty12_N800Nokia's turning gangsta:
rm_youlol GA, even has the favicon :P15:03
rm_younice touch15:03
pupnikhow is that gangsta15:03
pupnikoh homiez15:03
GeneralAntillesI was gonna turn it into a larger logo for the banner, but I never got around to vectorizing the volume-half of the icon.15:03
GeneralAntillesLater, maybe.15:03
rm_youthat's fairly recursive, qwerty12_N80015:04
rm_younot as much as... if i can find it, hold on...15:04
GeneralAntillesCrap, didn't re-add the TODO list.15:04
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qwerty12_N800I like crashanddie's pic of nokia going green :p15:05
lcukwhich ones that15:06
lcukahhhh i remember15:06
lcukanyone know how i can make putty start in a specific folder15:09
rm_youlcuk: ?15:10
keesjis it possible to make a home applet that doens't move?15:10
rm_youlcuk: whatfor could it possibly matter?15:10
rm_youthat said, if you make a shortcut and edit the "Working Directory"15:11
rm_youthat should do it15:11
lcukwhen i connect to 810 it always start in / i always have to "cd /media/mmc1/liqbase15:11
rm_youOH that15:11
GeneralAntillesOK, TODO re-added.15:11
lcukkeesj, i thought that locking applets was a suggested diablo feature?15:11
GeneralAntilleslcuk, Fremantle, probably.15:12
lcukbut its a flag somewhere thats checked on mousedown - its not rocket science15:12
rm_youlcuk: haven't tested, but a thought:15:12
keesjlcuk: I guess you can set the "home" dir to that location in the passwd files15:12
qwerty12_N800keesj, emjayes found out that you can use  chattr to lock applets but it only works on ext2, not jffs15:12
rm_youlcuk: in Connection -> Data, set an environment variable like, "PUTTY" to "1"15:12
keesjyou might also be able do tweak sshd (depening on what server yoi use)15:13
rm_youand then in your .bash_profile, do something like: if [ $PUTTY ] then cd some/directory/; fi15:13
lcukwinscp comes up in the right folder, but the ssh session wont - i think rm is right thats its an env variable15:13
lcukbut i dont see how setting putty to 1 would get me into my folder15:14
rm_youheh i was going for the hackish method :P15:14
rm_yousee my second message :P15:14
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lcukholy mother of god, the heavens have opened15:14
lcukREALLY opened15:14
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rm_youlol, nice, dark and dry here :P15:15
lcukjesus a river has formed already15:15
* lcuk saves his work15:15
lcukrm_you, thats a better solution entirely15:16
keesjqwerty12_N800: I mean locking so they don't move around15:16
lcuki always want to go into liqbase so ill just set it as global absolute default in the .bash_profile15:16
qwerty12_N800exactly ;)15:16
crashanddieqwerty12_N800, I'll make a better one soon15:17
rm_youlcuk: care.... if you sudo gainroot on the device, it will probably parse your bashrc and send you there <_<15:17
crashanddieqwerty12_N800, leaf is almost completely dry, and I'll use a better camera15:17
qwerty12_N800crashanddie, lol, enjoy15:17
lcukrm_you, i do that anyway and im always in my dev stuff15:17
rm_youlol ok, your call :P15:17
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lcukim gonna send it by default into /dev   (a symlink to /media/mmc115:17
crashanddieAnd might I just say, that was one hell of a series finale15:17
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rm_youhell yes it was15:18
fnordianslipGeneralAntilles: what is the clock applet with what looks like a cpu load graph in it (on the garage page) ?15:19
rm_youwe should just add a note about that15:20
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GeneralAntillesfnordianslip, osso-statusbar-cpu15:20
GeneralAntillesinz updated it for OS2008 a few weeks ago.15:20
fnordianslipah ok tah15:20
qwerty12_N800thanks for the heads up, i'm using the tschmidt one atm, must change...15:22
GeneralAntillesAlright, reload and hover over the small screenshot, rm_you.15:26
rm_youooo and newer screenshots15:27
GeneralAntilleslol <_< "Your message to Adv-backlight-commits awaits moderator approval"15:28
GeneralAntillesAnybody familiar with penguinbait's partitioning .deb?15:30
GeneralAntillesI'd like to add that to the wiki, as it's really the easiest method for newbies15:30
GeneralAntillesbut I don't have any experience with it.15:30
rm_youGeneralAntilles: yeah it keeps sending me mails saying to approve/deny, but i have no idea what the mailing list admin password is <_<15:32
GeneralAntillesProbably an X-Fade question.15:32
keesjJaffa: any plans to put mud in extras?15:33
GeneralAntillesrm_you, seems like it may be a bug or, at the very least, something that should be documented in an "introduction to garage" page in the wiki.15:34
rm_youi wonder if they emailed it to me or something and i lost it? >_>15:35
* GeneralAntilles really wants to see a nice, up-to-date, "Community tools for developing for Maemo" overview.15:35
GeneralAntillesExtras, Garage, Downloads, etc15:35
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keesjGeneralAntilles: that would be good15:37
keesjI started expanding the extras doc last week
GeneralAntillesYeah, that one is a nice start.15:38
keesjbut what we really need is a document with not to much references to the outside15:38
GeneralAntillesThere's a Garage introduction page, but it's old and fairly crufty:
keesjdon't say " read the debian maintainers guide. but giving a few examples to get started15:39
GeneralAntillesMost definitely.15:40
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GeneralAntillesGo to the Debian maintainer's guide for details, but provide enough to get them started without overwhelming too many people here.15:40
GeneralAntillesA flow-chart would be nice for that Uploading to Extras page.15:45
GNUtonWhere are libmysqlclient12-dev libsqlite0-dev packages? I´ unable to find them in Diablo..15:47
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lcukwho is Capt'n Corrupt from itT15:55
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GeneralAntillesCapt'n Corrupt from itT15:56
GeneralAntillesHe doesn't have a presence Freenode15:57
lcukhes not an ircer15:57
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dnearyGeneralAntilles: Hi there16:02
dnearyI don't get it...16:02
GeneralAntillesGet what?16:03
dnearyI don't understand why someone would consider it better to have a long page with 2/3rds of the information out of date, which will only scare people away16:03
dneary"out of date" = "only useful for users of 770s"16:03
GeneralAntillesSome of it's probably a gut-level negative reaction from the way Nokia handled the 770 -> N800 transition.16:04
GeneralAntillesand I do see their point16:04
GeneralAntillesbut things quickly become overwhelming an un-useful when you have too much info.16:05
GeneralAntillesStringing "OK, now if you have a 770 do this, if you have an N800 or N810 then do this, blah blah blah" through out a wiki page just results in confusion.16:05
lcukthe older 770 information is not going anywhere: its in the older wiki?  surely keeping it archived in the original 770 specific context is better than muddying the waters16:06
GeneralAntillesYeah, that's my thinking.16:07
lcukkeep the new wiki clean, if required put something at the foot of ALL pages pointing back to original wiki for older devices16:07
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GeneralAntillesI'm thinking things will get better as the platform matures, too.16:08
lcukputting myself in their shoes in a few years time, n810 will be "old" and "legacy"  i dont want to wade through tonnes of n1000 crap and would expect all this information about os2008 to still be available in this wiki16:09
GeneralAntillesIs there a good example of how another wiki handles it?16:09
GeneralAntillesZaurus, maybe?16:10
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GeneralAntillesMaemo 5, you mean, lcuk? :P16:14
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johnxthe zaurus isn't a great example really16:15
lcukGeneralAntilles, yes, but you see what i mean16:16
lcukit serves no purpose for me as an os2008 user to have to read up about what i cannot have16:16
lcukthe original documentation site still exists.  it still contains correct and valid information16:16
lbtI think this suggest how it would be nice not to differentiate against new devices unless necessary16:17
lcukit was written by people with access to the devices on a regular basis and those documented it knew its quirks.  if we start fucking with it now we will mess it up16:17
lbteg physical hw differences16:17
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* lardman dislikes shopping16:18
johnxI know the feeling O_o16:18
johnxexcept when shopping for new tech :D16:18
lcukfeeling the card burning16:18
johnxyeah, how it gets a little warm and feels slightly heavier?16:19
lcuki wouldnt know, i dont get to hold it16:19
lcuklardman, have you seen the discussion in itt suggesting a port of sdl to yuv ;)16:20
lardmanI never understood why it hadn't already been done to be honest16:20
lardmanbut well done for pushing them :)16:21
lcuktime and effort, noone knew if it could be feasible16:21
johnxI think our situation is somewhat unique16:21
lardmanstill need to do the conversion, but ssvb's code is nearly as quick as a memcpy iirc16:21
lbtgotta go - busy weekend - back later... In the meantime can I ask a question... does only support current Nokia devices? If not then how does it intend to support end-of-life'd devices (like 770) ???16:21
lcuki think if my work is helping inspire debate then its a good thing16:21
GeneralAntilleslbt, er, no, what gives you that impression?16:22
lcuklardman, yer its quite a logical function and if it can be packed into asm it wont be sluggish16:22
GeneralAntillesThe FOCUS isn't eol devices, but there's plenty of 770-specific information on there.16:22
lardmanit is asm isn't it, at least the part from mplayer was iirc16:22
lcukive seen some floating around, but a couple of months ago kotzcarny did something which opened my eyes a little and made me pleased i used an os level library (xv) rather than the omapfb16:23
lcukhe compiled it and i talked him round the bugs and we got it compiling and running (at least to some level) directly on his x86 laptop16:24
lcukit was in the runup to linuxtag so my priority was a bit shifted, but its certainly something that i will be moving closer to the front of my mind16:25
lcuki want linked software running on both 810 and desktop and have sketches streaming onto big screen for management and grouping and back again onto touch for other stuff16:25
lcukwhether i can get it by the summit im not sure, but its certainly one direction im looking towards16:26
lardmansounds cool16:26
lcukyer :)16:26
* lcuk is so pleased he got his 81016:27
lcuksorry for the sidetrack there ;) it was prompted when you mentioned about arm asm and specific device targetting)16:28
* lardman is dreaming of barcodes16:29
lardmanhmm 47s now, getting better...16:32
lcuki hope you arent gonna destroy the universe when you get it down to -1 seconds16:32
GeneralAntillesdneary, I think it's one of those issues where a few people that feel really strongly about it tend to swarm out of the woodwork to shout loudly, while the majority of people agree with you, but aren't bothered enough to speak up. ;)16:32
lcukGeneralAntilles, feel free to quote this discussion here.  its logged in google as well for confirmation16:33
GeneralAntilleslcuk, down to lardman or the supercollider? :P16:33
lardmanlcuk: at this rate the big cruch will happen before I get imaginary16:33
lcuki think lardman *IS* the supercollider ;)16:33
lardman~lart poll errors16:34
* infobot dumps 42 tons of dirt, manure, and fish heads on poll errors16:34
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lcuklardman, when you are coding do you put test code and comment ponderments in for the world to see?16:36
lardmanAll the comment and test code are in there commented out16:36
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johnxsame in the linux kernel too...and less famously any scripts I release that are less than straightforward16:37
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lcuki culled a load of test files before i gpled everything, but if i update svn all the test stuff will go up with it16:37
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johnxlcuk, you may find this enlightening:!.html :)16:38
lcukjohnx, nahhhh, not a problem16:38
johnxwhat I mean to say is, definitely keep test code and comments.16:39
lcukim on about discussions with myself about what i am trying to code16:39
lcukor pseudocode functions16:39
lardman If you don't see why, please stay the fuck away from my code.... :)16:39
johnxleave it all, especially if you think it might give someone a clue why you did something or even give them a clue on a way to do it better16:40
lcukwell, they are often my diary notes which i expand on as i roll around16:41
lcukahhhh well, ive never had my code under scrutiny like this before16:41
lardmanjust leave the, and add plenty of curses16:41
johnxlcuk, don't think of it that way. you really do worry too much.16:42
lardmanoo, down to 45s!16:42
johnxlardman, what's down to 45s? barcode reading?16:42
lcuktime before his male menapause hits :P16:43
lardmanno, shared memory sbc encoder16:43
johnxoooh :D16:43
johnxjust got back from using a2dp for a good chunk of the day...barely made it home before my battery went flat16:44
lcukoh shit!16:44
lcukhow do i undo a symlink16:44
johnxjust rm the symlink16:44
lcukln -s /media/mmc1/ /dev16:44
lardmanit shouldn't have allowed that16:45
lcukit didnt warn me though16:45
lcukNokia-N810-50-2:~# ln -s /media/mmc1/ /dev16:45
lcukNokia-N810-50-2:~# cd /dev16:45
lcukNokia-N810-50-2:/dev# ls16:45
lcuki would have expected a wtf16:45
Grackle_Isn't dev populated on boot?16:45
Grackle_Maybe you can just delete it and reboot.16:46
lcukyer, how do i ummm check its ok?16:46
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johnxlcuk, don't do anything for a second16:46
Grackle_I would back up stuff right now if you can. :P16:46
lcuki wasnt going to16:46
lcukits ok, this might be the push to diablo :)16:46
johnxls -l / | grep dev16:46
johnxif you can still use a console you can probably recover16:46
johnxdon't reboot16:46
lcukdrwxr-xr-x   12 root     root         3640 Jul  6 14:42 dev16:47
johnxdon't close the shell you have open16:47
johnxdon't drop from root16:47
lcuki aint goin nowhere16:47
johnxls /dev/16:47
* lcuk hates the console16:47
johnxis it the contents of /media/mmc1 or is it full of devices?16:47
lcukdevice list - im thinking its false alarm16:47
johnxnow do this:16:48
johnxls /dev/mmc116:48
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lcuknormal expected devel files16:48
* lcuk wipes the sweat from his brow16:48
johnxone last command:16:48
johnxls -l /dev/ | grep mmc116:48
lcuk~lart shell16:48
* infobot slaps shell upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh16:48
lcuklrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           12 Jul  6 14:42 mmc1 -> /media/mmc1/16:49
johnxrm /dev/mmc116:49
lcukhang on, my code is on there16:49
johnxit's a symlink16:49
johnxbut if you want, back up your code first16:49
johnxanyways, the situation is static16:50
lcukcopying off16:50
lardmanthis is the problem of running a terminal as root16:50
fnordiansliplol.  reminds me  of when i accidently removed everything on my NSLU2 with aptitude.  it did remove almost everything but barfed when trying to uninstall the running kernel.  aptitude was nice enough to reinstall everything and a normal reboot followed.16:50
johnxalso, ln -s won't replace an existing file with a symlink, ln -sf will16:51
johnxthe f is for force16:51
lardmanhmm, assuming busybox does as it should....16:51
lcukok :) thats reasonable, "you asked me to set it, oh it already is ok then"16:51
johnxyeah, that was my first thought lardman16:51
johnxI am curious though, what you were trying to do :)16:52
lcukputty always drops me in at /  i always have to cd /media/mmc1/liqbase16:53
lcuki was just trying to save a little typing :'(16:53
johnxyou might just want to figure out why putty drops you at /16:53
johnxalso, have you been logging in and editing your code as root?16:54
lcuk:$ yes16:54
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* lcuk thinks hes gonna get told off now16:54
johnxmeh, it's your machine16:54
johnxI would suggest you don't16:54
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johnxif you were another admin on a production server editing your shell scripts as root, I'd tell you off, though :)16:55
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zetheroowhen I am on my N800 I can browse the network folders but I cannot see any of the files within the folders16:57
zetherooplease help16:57
lbtGeneralAntilles: (slow reply - sorry) I don't have that impression - I just wanted to double check. Dave N kinda gives the impression that the 770 is a second class citizen (I _know_ he doesn't speak for all) and I wondered if there is/was/should be some clear statement about the devices that supports. I suggest raising it as a scoping issue for future debates. Saying "the focus is on non-eol devices" is, to my mind, not very16:58
lbtdifferent at all to "eol devices like the 770 are second class citizens".16:58
lbtthis isn't supposed to be a rant16:59
lbtmore a request for clarity about device support (which, I agree, then leads on to some knotty problems)16:59
johnxwell, the problem is that writing on the wiki comes from people who own devices17:00
lbteg - does the new extras process support the 770? why not?17:00
lcukit should support those devices with os2008he..17:00
lbtjohnx: I agree - but the community should be clear about helping manage multiple generation info or descoping it17:00
lardmanInteresting, on the DSP I have to loop ~700 times waiting for the ARM to free the buffers, on the ARM the buffers are always free17:01
lardmanperhaps that's why the code takes ~45s to run now17:01
lbtand, at the end of the day, if only has the resource to support current devices then what?17:01
lcukbut that is operating system rather than hardware device - windows 3.1 software is not listed as primary on microsofts site because its use is fading, but there are 3.1 specific sites out there where you can still obtain the infroamtion17:01
zetheroodoes anyone have any insight for my problem? :)17:01
lbtmaybe there should be a clearer archive/hand-off/integration steop to :)17:01
lcuklbt, the old wiki with 770 information exists?17:02
lardmanzetheroo: browse with what?17:02
lbtthis isn't about the wiki17:02
lbtit's about the community defenition which has been discussed over the last few weeks17:02
lbtthe wiki is an outcome17:02
zetherooI was using the File Manager to browse the shared folders on the network17:02
lbtthe wiki structure isn't great for the 77017:02
lbtif supports the 770 then it's a bug17:02
lbtif it doesn't then it's not :17:03
zetheroobut  when I select a folder it is "empty" ....17:03
zetheroobut it should have heaps of media in it17:03
lardmanpermissions problem? I don't know17:03
johnxzetheroo, could it be a permissions thing? is guest allowed to see those files?17:03
lcukzetheroo, shares should be passwordless17:03
lbtlike I said in my email - I don't have a 770 - but I guess the N800 will eol at some point - and then what?17:03
zetherooall those folders are shared from Ubuntu machines and they are all open shares17:04
zetheroono passwords17:04
lcukthen we will have the documentation written today by people with these devices and who know its quirks.17:04
lbtbut we leave it to stagnate? eg as far as extras goes?17:04
lcukjust like the 770 has it, we dont know the first thing about a 770 and it would be easy for one of us to misquote when copying data over17:04
lcuki thought 770 users could access extras just fine with he on?17:05
zetheroothing is that I can access media from one computer17:05
mac6casthello room, sorry for my stupid question , i got a nokia 6680 can i use maemo with it ?17:05
zetheroobut not from the one I am on right here and now17:05
lbtdoes 770 run 2008?17:05
lbtI thought not17:05
lcuklbt, i believe there is a hacker edition17:06
Atariiextras works wiv 2008he17:06
lbtand I thought the extras build process doesn't target 200617:06
lbtOK - but it's *still* not the point - what is the postition ? :)17:06
GeneralAntilles770 runs OS2008HE17:07
GeneralAntillesWhich'll do fine with just about anything in Extras.17:07
lbtGeneralAntilles: OK, that's fine17:07
lbtso why should 770 info be hidden on the wiki?17:08
GeneralAntillesIt's not hidden17:08
johnxmac6cast, I'm afraid not.17:08
lcuki *would* like to see a few dedicated 770 users be allowed back into the *old* documentation area to clear out the crap from 2008 that infected it leaving pristine good quality n770 specific documentation, but i think the effort required would not be forthcoming17:08
lbtDaveN is suggesting things like that17:08
mac6castthanks johnx :-(17:08
GeneralAntillesAt a certain point, legacy support starts dragging things down (look at Microsoft for a general example).17:08
lbtand lcuk - fine - if 770 owners don't care then tough!!17:08
GeneralAntillesThe idea is to keep the information on the wiki as clean, clear and easy-to-access as possible.17:09
lcukyes, but thats my point, the old area is still there17:09
lbtGeneralAntilles: agreed - hence the need for clarification17:09
lcukright now, maemo supports it17:09
GeneralAntilleslbt, part of the problem is that "" isn't really one thing with a clear direction. ;)17:09
lcukthe argument here is whether it should be moved into the hot new stuff wiki17:09
lbtif a device is 'supported' then DaveN's suggestion should get short shrift17:09
GeneralAntillesIt's a lot of people with a lot of different ideas.17:09
lbtand I think making some high level statements like this17:10
GeneralAntillesWhich makes deciding "OK, this is what is about" a difficult task.17:10
lbtwould help to guide a constistent direction17:10
lbtand device support is wide-ranging but easy to grasp17:10
GeneralAntillesGenerally speaking, I don't think legacy device support should be a priority if it gets in the way of current device support.17:10
johnxI don't think there's going to be a hard and fast "consistent direction" on the 770...17:10
GeneralAntillesand, with the wiki, that old 770 stuff DEFINITELY gets in the way.17:10
johnxUsers who write documentation for the n8x0 probably won't write much about the 770, but nothing stops 770 users from stepping forward17:11
lbtso supports N810, N800 but N770 non-partiticipation has lead to it being deprecated17:11
lbtis fine too17:11
GeneralAntillesThere's no such thing as an "N770".17:11
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johnxGeneralAntilles, :P17:11
pupnikis a gcc 4.x based distro in the works?17:11
pupniksomething i forgot to ask at linuxtag17:11
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GeneralAntillesReally, though, I think this is going to be much less of an issue moving forward.17:12
johnx770 support can be defined much more easily on smaller issues though17:12
GeneralAntillesThe 770 is a bit of a special case.17:12
johnxif you care about getting autobuilder running for OS2006, then talk to someone about it and see what the hold up is17:12
GeneralAntillesAs the platform matures and stabilizes, and the hardware gets past a certain baseline, there'll be fewer major shakeups between revisions.17:13
lbtGeneralAntilles: and that's a fair statement too  - the intention is there17:13
lardman what does this say to you regarding the polling loop sleep length on the ARM?17:14
lbtOK - got to go again - sorry for dropping in and out...17:14
lbtcheers :)17:15
GeneralAntillesFor something like an OS2006 autobuilder, though, that's really a matter of somebody getting behind the effort.17:16
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johnxwrite, though hopefully the scripts are largely distro neutral otherwise we'll suffer growing pains going forwards17:17
GAN800johnx, since you compiled Modest, think you could have a go at the MicroB svn? :P17:19
lcukjohnx, :) ive done the final delete and ive rebooted and all is fine.  thanks and ill look to changing stance17:19
lcukthank you17:19
johnxlcuk, sure, glad to help.17:20
johnxGAN800, I'll take a swing at it later17:20
* GAN800 is tired of waiting on Navi and qwerty12. . . .17:20
johnxI just did an ubuntu install to see if I like it again now that I figured out what piece of hardware was giving me problems with it earlier17:21
johnxGAN800, great then. now you can wait on me instead17:21
GeneralAntillesThe more the merrier. :D17:21
johnxdid they say it didn't build cleanly? or what was up with it?17:21
GeneralAntillesNavi was just damn lazy, and I think qwerty12 had trouble applying patches.17:22
johnxif qwerty had trouble with patches I don't know what I'll be able to do O_o17:22
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pupniklardman: it tells me... nothing!17:33
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rm_youjohnx: johnx! :P17:39
johnxrm_you, hey17:39
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* GeneralAntilles sighs.17:40
lardmanhmm, that's interesting, I can play via mplayer with the SW decoder fallback, but not with the DSP task. The fallback takes ~22s while the DSP takes ~18 to decode a test file...17:40
rm_youlol GA >_>17:41
rm_youand yet, unlol17:41
GeneralAntillesI'm not sure what functionality he's missing?17:41
GeneralAntillesThe links to the control panels? <_<17:41
GeneralAntillesI really don't want to have install dialog like fiferboy uses, but it looks like enough people don't get it that it might be necessary.17:42
rm_youyeah :/17:42
rm_youi thought about adding that several times :(17:42
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johnxwow...that's awesome. I finally buy a 4GB SDHC and it come factory direct improperly partitioned17:43
inzrm, They're quite trivial to add17:43
zapMaemo ignores the "Terminal=true" option in .desktop files?17:43
zapor it's just me doing something wrong17:43
Grackle_johnx, huh? Improperly partitioned for what?17:45
johnxeh, 1039 "cylinders", partition ends on cylinder 104017:45
Grackle_hah, oh, I see.17:45
johnxfixed it, formatting and I'll see if it works17:46
GeneralAntillesinz, sure, but they're also ugly as all get out. ;)17:46
rm_youjohnx: what did that end up costing you?17:47
rm_youwhere'd you get it?17:47
johnxrm_you, Hard-Off17:47
johnxit's an "All-Ways" brand card17:48
rm_youI only remember them having REALLY crappy hardware, lol17:48
rm_yousurprised they carry something up to 4g17:48
johnxthey had 8GB too, but no 16 or 3217:49
johnxand it's super cheap looking17:49
rm_youhow super-cheap can amn SD card look? O_o17:49
johnxI'll pick up another couple, maybe another 4GB and an 8GB next time I get to Akiba17:49
johnxmainly the crappy logo on the sticker17:49
rm_youheh yeah17:49
johnxbut it works in my n800 and zaurus, so I'm happy17:50
rm_youthrow another 4g in your Z and the 8g in the other slot on your n800?17:50
johnxthat's the general idea17:50
rm_youfun times17:50
johnxand be able to keep projects installed on the 1GB and 2GB17:51
rm_youis SDHC a driver thing or is there actually a hardware component?17:51
johnxI'm a little fuzzy on that myself17:51
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GeneralAntillesSDHC is firmware issue.17:51
johnxMy current uninformed thoughts is that it's a little of both17:52
johnxGeneralAntilles, define "firmware"17:52
johnxkernel code or something lower level?17:52
rm_youwith the right firmware update, you could get an older machine with an SD card to support SDHC?17:52
GeneralAntillesWell, depends on the device17:52
GeneralAntillesFor, say, the N800, it's a software issue17:52
GeneralAntillesfor, say, a card reader, it's a firmware issue17:52
rm_youwhat about eeePC?17:52
johnxrm_you, AFAIK, the zaurus was pre-sdhc but it just needed an updated driver17:52
rm_youthe built-in doesnt support sdhc17:52
GeneralAntillesThere isn't any hardware difference that I'm aware of, though.17:52
johnxrm_you, are you kidding?!17:53
rm_youwouldn't read my 16g card, only my 4g >_>17:53
johnxI think it depends on the level at which the kernel code intereacts with the card reader17:53
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Kegetysare there any faster sdhc cards than class 6?17:53
johnxalso, you have en eee pc now?17:54
rm_youno, a friend17:54
johnxKegetys, not that I know of17:54
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KegetysI know the specs only define up to class 6 but I wonder if there are ones that are class 6 but actually can do much faster or something...17:54
johnxeeePC supports SDHC AFAIK17:54
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rm_youit didn't seem to17:58
johnxIt probably has issues with some cards17:58
GeneralAntillesThere's no way it doesn't.17:58
johnxjust like almost every SD using device I've ever seen17:59
lardmanhmm, how can I do a binary diff and look at the differences?18:01
rm_youGeneralAntilles: that's what i thought <_<18:01
PsykosisOkay - perhaps a silly question/confirmation - still fighting to make this deb. I need a config file in home. It is installing it, however it is root owned. Is the way around it doing a post-install script to chown/chgrp it, or am I doing something else wrong?18:01
rm_youPsykosis: erp... dunno if you can do that without postinst <_<18:02
PsykosisDoes the post install run as root?18:02
rm_youdpkg isn't designed to install to user directories18:02
PsykosisOkay - I bet that would work then...18:02
lardmandoes diff work on binaries?18:03
qwerty12I think you use xdelta for binaries, but I'm not sure on patching anyways18:04
rm_youlardman: i tried it once, not-so-much :/18:04
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johnxrm_you, as a point of interest, I got a2dp working, and I don't know how18:06
lardmanhmm, will have to write a c program to tell me if the files are different18:07
johnxwell, diff will tell you if they're different, but not how18:08
* lcuk has tired fingers18:08
johnx"binary files differ"18:08
PsykosisHmm.. that didn't work. :(18:08
johnxwhat did it say?18:08
lcuklardman, get something which will export your binary file as a hex+dec screen.18:09
lcukthen show the diffs on that18:09
kkrust1I used to convert binaries into SREC format and then look at their differences.18:09
qwerty12Need an opinon, does this look like the N810 schematics: . It looks different to the N800 one I have.18:10
lcukkkrust1, SREC?  source listing, ie char arrays?18:10
rm_youjohnx: as a point of interest, that seems to be the way of it, and i haven't been able to break it again besides installing a horribly broken and semi-patched debian sid version of bluez-utils i tried compiling myself....18:10
lardmankkrust1: what can I use to do that?18:10
johnxrm_you, update to mplayer 28 :) that'll break it18:10
rm_youlol will it? :P18:10
rm_youlcuk: md5sum will tell you if they're different :P18:10
johnxrm_you, I think it had something to do with re-pairing after I made the change and rebooted18:11
lcukrm_you, but not whats different18:11
kkrust1lardman: let me try to look up a GNU application that can do that18:11
johnxI think it might remember the supported services at the time of first pairing or something?18:11
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rm_youmaybe? >_>18:11
rm_youyeah, possibly re-pair, re-boot18:11
lcukkkrust1, i just saw18:12
lcukbut its not readable18:12
qwerty12I think I'm about to <3:
kkrust1lcuk: I cant imagine how binary diff can be readable. You could probably look at map files emitted by the linker18:13
rm_youlardman: do you need to know HOW they're different, or just that they ARE?18:14
kkrust1lardman: have you tried objcopy?18:14
lcukkkrusty, binary diff would still show you the strings in the file that are different18:14
lcukget a program which will export this:
rm_you"od" will do that18:14
lcukthen doing the diff will show you the ascii portion18:14
rm_youor "xxd"18:14
lcukthanks rm18:15
rm_youI would go for xxd, haven't seen od recently since like fedora 418:15
rm_youerr, maybe fedora 218:15
johnxif you're interested in ASCII strings you should look at "strings"18:15
rm_youjohnx: lol, remember having to do "strings `which glxgears`" to find out how to show fps in ubuntu? >_>18:16
rm_youso stupid18:16
lcukjohnx, lardman wants to see a diff of a binary, the hex might be important, the best way is to export it into something textual that diff can understand and also showing clearly whats changed18:16
rm_youhrm, so my senior software project went live recently apparently18:16
johnxawesome rm_you :D18:17
lcukpeople throughout america now have no running water or lights18:17
lardmanjust that they are different, what doesn't matter18:17
lardmansorry for the tardy response, am tidying :(18:17
rm_youbuilt from the ground up by my team: :)18:18
rm_youlardman: lol, compare md5sums18:18
lcukshopping and tidyign in one day, my god simon you are smitten :)18:18
rm_yousorry for the annoyingly long name, our client was... kinda.... well, he doesnt understand the internet.18:18
johnxlardman, diff will work18:18
lcukrm_you, this site is crap, i cant find the .install file anywhere18:19
qwerty12apt-get install wine18:19
rm_youawwww they got rid of the reflection script <_<18:19
lardmanrm_you: ah yes, of course18:20
rm_youprobably decided the license was bad18:20
lardmanjohnx: ok, cool18:20
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qwerty12Ok, anyone with an N810 needing repair, hit me up, I've got the Nokia N810 service manuals18:24
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GeneralAntillesAnything interesting?18:25
qwerty12Dunno, haven't looked through the 188 pages yet :). There's a lot of hardware pics though.18:27
qwerty12Fanoush was asking for the N810 schematics, I'll drop him a line.18:27
johnxjust as a note, don't send that to him unless he agrees18:28
Italodancehi guys :D18:28
qwerty12johnx, yeah :)18:29
johnxqwerty12, I don't know about the legal implications behind that guide, but better safe than sorry18:29
qwerty12Yeah, I don't want to get him f***ed up, just saw one of his posts asking if the N810 schematics were available18:29
GeneralAntillesWow, I think this seriously might be the worst Logitech mouse I've ever owned. . . .18:30
johnxyeah, this is somewhere between available and not available...18:30
qwerty12Man, I got to get my ass down to Staffordshire and meet with someone I know there who works in phone servicing. Nokia have a *lot* of equipment to test the N8*0.18:31
GeneralAntillesFirst the thumb wheel started making crunching noises, then freespin stopped working and now the rubberized coating on the body shell is pealing off.18:31
johnxGeneralAntilles, cheap MS mice for me. They last waaaay longer than I want them to18:31
lcukGeneralAntilles, it sounds like a problem with acid sweat than the mouse18:32
GeneralAntillesThe mouse is like a month old, too.18:32
rm_youhrm, sleep for me. i shall return!18:32
lcukgnite rm18:32
qwerty12night rm_you18:32
GeneralAntillesGuess I'll be calling Logitech on Monday. :\18:32
lcukback later18:33
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johnx'night rm_you18:36
Italodanceumm guys can i use linux deb run file for my n800?18:36
Italodanceinfact use only that file for run18:36
Italodanceand put my pc games on a dir for run!18:37
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GeneralAntilleslol . . .18:37
kkrust1Italodance: run what and where?18:38
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Italodancekkrust1 example i want to install a linux deb game file and also add the data to my n800 too18:39
Italodancecan it work?18:40
qwerty12You mean having the game data inside the deb file?18:40
kkrust1is that deb made for the n8*0?18:40
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qwerty12Anyways, from what I can tell, I don't use phoenix in the N800's flash mode, I'll have to connect it up a nokia "box" (as they are called).18:43
kkrustyyou mean no to it being made for the n800?18:43
PsykosisCan someone (preferably whom would be interested in Music Sequencing on the Nokia) test out this deb to make sure it functions on a clean NIT? (
qoshey guys. is it to expect that all repositorys will get an diablo distribution up and running? i am asking because of telepathy-haze. there are just packages for chinook and i don't wanna damage my new diablo.18:44
PsykosisClean == not perhaps having residues from my testing.18:45
lcuk_qos, contact the devlopers themselves and see if they have any plans to upgrade their software18:45
lardmanbig lightning18:46
lardmanback in a bit18:46
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lcuk_on the whole chinook stuff works and even testing it for them and dropping a line to say "hey, this works in diablo, perhaps you should include it" would be a good thing18:46
lcuk_we had a similar storm earlier18:46
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qwerty12It's dark as hell down here in London, no storm/lightning though.18:47
zapAny Midnight Commander fans out there? I need some beta testers18:47
qoslcuk_, storm?18:48
GeneralAntillesGenerally speaking Chinook stuff will work fine in Diablo.18:48
lcuk_yes, a shedload of rain a big black cloud and lots of thunder.  typical definition of a storm18:48
GeneralAntillesThe desired goal is for 3rd party repositories to mostly be shut down. ;)18:49
qoslcuk_, very kind. thanks18:49
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Grackle_GeneralAntilles, that sounds like a reasonable goal, given the changes that are being made to the development process.18:54
qwerty12Psykosis, wow, that's quite a screenie.18:59
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kkrustyIs there any better irc client than pidgin for maemo?19:02
johnxkkrusty, xchat19:02
qwerty12it's in diablo extras now19:02
Atariianyone got the default chat program working with irc?19:03
Atariithrough rtcomm beta19:03
qwerty12I've had it working with standard settings but to be honest, the effort isn't worth it.19:03
Atariion 2008HE it lets me join a room, but then i cant see any chat or send any19:03
qwerty12Hmm, I could see and send chat in #maemo with rtcomm beta.19:04
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GeneralAntillesqwerty12, you want to comment on this one?
qwerty12I'll try, I installed my copy from an old copy of the tableteer repo :/19:07
GeneralAntillesI guess the questions are, is it definitely in the Diablo Tools repo, and is it in User/?19:08
qwerty12Ahh, It's in the diablo sdk repo, give me a sec.19:08
GeneralAntillesI guess, really, his issue is that it's no longer in user/19:10
GeneralAntillesand, personally, I don't think that belongs in user/19:10
qwerty12With the Diablo SDK repo, they made things a little more funky. it took me a while to figure out a working sources.list line for it :/19:11
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GeneralAntillesI dunno if I buy his line that it showed up under Chinook, though. According to it's "Section: admin"19:12
GeneralAntillesUgh, I hate his bugs.19:13
GeneralAntillesThis one is most probably INVALID, too. . . .
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qwerty12I'd agree. It will list packages to restore that were installed by a local deb file using the application manager, but naturally the tablet won't know where that deb file came from if it isn't in a repo.19:16
GeneralAntillesThis needs to be split up or something. . . .
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qwerty12That's his fault. He wants to install a chinook package, but the package has been updated in diablo.19:18
GeneralAntilles#2900 is way before Diablo19:19
GeneralAntillesThat was filed in February.19:19
qwerty12Ah, my bad.19:19
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GeneralAntillesEither way, it's a pretty terrible bug.19:19
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GeneralAntilles#2999 needs a new summary, needs to be moved to Application manager, and needs to be an enhancement.19:20
kkrustythe web browser is not getting out of its "Updating" phase. Is that expected?19:20
GeneralAntillesUpdating is loading the engine19:21
kkrustyyes. Diablo19:21
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GeneralAntillesI've seen browserd go weird after a crash once or twice.19:21
GeneralAntilleskillall browserd may fix it19:21
GeneralAntillesor just reboot19:21
qwerty12Open up root x-term and type /etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon restart19:21
GeneralAntillesor that ^19:21
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kkrustythat worked. Thanks19:23
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qwerty12~lart windows installer for not clearing up it's crap19:24
* infobot beats windows installer to within 2.54cm of his life for not clearing up it's crap19:24
qwerty12infobot, next time kill windows installer19:24
GeneralAntilles~kill windows installer19:24
* infobot shoots a inverse electron gun at windows installer19:24
qwerty12Ooh, even better, ta19:24
qwerty12I'm now removing all traces of nokia and deskey by hand >.<19:25
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qwerty12hi lardman19:26
lardmanhey qwerty1219:27
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lcuk_hahaha omg :D19:33
Kegetyshmm, is there any app or other way to have some kind of "power profiles", ie. different screen turn off time and lock behaviour depending on various parameters?19:33
lcuk_os.popen("/home/user/liqbase/liqbase " + snesg)19:33
lcuk_does that work?19:33
* lcuk_ is surprised at the inginuity of the oss crowd ;)19:33
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johnxKegetys, look at acmonitor19:34
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johnxat very least that will get you different power profiles for AC and battery19:35
johnxto do more than that you can use dbus-scripts to listen for events and act on them19:35
GeneralAntillesAnybody recall a bug for clearer Application manager errors?19:35
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KegetysI'd like to have the screen stay on longer if the keyboard is out, and also if I'm connected to the home wlan (I'm close to a charger if that is the case)19:36
qosdoes somebody know if the maemo pidgin version is also affected by the "your version is too old bug"?19:36
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johnxKegetys, maybe acmonitor could be modified to do that19:37
johnxor you could look at what it does, and re-create the same setup using dbus-scripts19:37
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KegetysI'll look at it, thanks19:37
johnxI don't think there is a "ready to go" solution though...19:37
qwerty12Kegetys, I'd look at making a daemon on python or the like, there is already slidelock. That one could be very easily modified to meet the first condition.19:38
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, didn't you file a bug about Application manager's "operation already in progress"?19:39
qwerty12Nope, only bug I filed was a garage bug.19:39
GeneralAntillesSomebody filed a bug about that. . . .19:39
GeneralAntillesI can't find it, though. :\19:39
GeneralAntilleslardman bug19:40
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qwerty12I used to keep tapping the update repo icon to see if it wasn't busy but that's a fail in diablo because I need to be in red pill and they removed the confirmation screen asking you if you wanted to update :/19:42
lardmanah, that little beauty19:42
lardmanI was told it had been fixed though19:42
GeneralAntilleslardman, by whom?19:43
GeneralAntillesand when?19:43
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GeneralAntillesThey should've resolved the bug if it was fixed. <_<19:43
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, have you seen it in Diablo?19:43
GeneralAntillesI haven't noticed.19:43
lardmanhmm, maybe it was another one then, I thought it was in the bugzilla19:44
lardmanah no, I'm probably thinking of the losing position when the list updates bug19:44
qwerty12I still get no indication when installing debs from the browser in diablo but that's because I have a lot of repos and that equals slowdown :/19:44
qwerty12It's more of a matter of the appplication manager speed, it should be able to tell if it's been opened by dbus and not cache the available applications and check for updates :/19:44
lardmanvote it up then chaps :)19:45
qwerty12Go on then :)19:45
lardmanit's my bug, can I vote for it?19:45
qwerty12Yes :)19:45
qwerty12(dunno if it's "acceptable" though :))19:45
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GeneralAntillesOne these ?19:46
GeneralAntilleslardman, yes.19:46
GeneralAntillesI vote on bugs I feel strongly about.19:46
GeneralAntillesIt's a prioritization method, and it works better if it counts as many heads as possible.19:47
qwerty12lardman, btw, did you ever try agps in "debug" mode? I don't think it did anything but I have a N800 anyway :)19:47
GeneralAntillesThat's my feeling, anyway.19:47
lardmanGeneralAntilles: 1622 probably19:47
lardmanqwerty12: no, didn't know it could be done... how?19:47
qwerty12There's a gconf flag, when I set it to one though, I didn't notice anything visibly different though.19:47
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qwerty12(I'd write the key name but I'm gconf-editor less now and I suck at gconftool :))19:48
GeneralAntillesUpdated bug #2900 . . .19:49
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lardmanRight, ponder this one. I've swapped back (for testing at least) to the bulk transfer method for SBC19:49
lardmanthe DSP decodes in 18.78+0.08+3.61s, the SW fallback decoder in 23.02+2.63+1.32s19:49
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lardmanyet the SW fallback decoder produces far longer output than the DSP task (10-15s vs 4s)19:50
lardmanI've produced output file using both, with the same encoder options as Bluez use and they are identical19:50
lardmanI'm a bit confused19:50
lcuk_23seconds at what cpu speed?19:51
lardmanhmm yes that is an issue19:51
qwerty12True say, what op mode are you in?19:51
lardmanbbiab to have a think about how to fix that19:51
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lcuk_big storm here19:55
qwerty12We're ok in London :)19:56
Jaffakeesj: yeah, see
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keesjJaffa:  do you have experience with the quilt system?20:01
keesjI think it would match even better then the current svn aproach20:02
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Italodancefinally is working on my country now :D20:10
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Italodance2008-07-07/07-12  GUADEC 2008(Ciragan Caddesi Besiktas 34353Istanbul, Turkey 41° 2.736 N 29° 1.164 E )2008-03-18T12:56:54Z20:17
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hellwolfHow could I disable the splash screen of N800, in order to see the startup messages?20:23
GeneralAntillesThat's a johnx question.20:24
johnxhellwolf, let me dig up a link20:24
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hellwolfjohnx, thanks, it seems not very easy, the thing that i want to do is to check why I can't boot my machine when a 4G SDHC inserted into the external slot20:30
johnxIt seem that fanoush added fb_update to his latest initfs...but not, it's not exactly easy to setup20:31
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GeneralAntillesHrm, interesting quote: "Our goal is to have the same UI on both Linux and Symbian, and the Qt platform lets us move forward toward that, with its cross platform technology."20:35
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JamieBennettGeneralAntilles: Where is the quote from?20:42
summatusmentisIs symban what is on most nokia phones? I had a 6265i, and was not really a fan of that interface20:43
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GeneralAntillesYeah, I'm not particularly in love with any cellphone interface.20:45
qwerty12_N800summatusmentis, that ain't symbian20:45
summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: the iPhone interface is nice, and I'm really liking my Palm Centro20:45
summatusmentisqwerty12_N800: oh, ok20:45
GeneralAntillesEh, iPhone is OK20:45
GeneralAntillesBut it doesn't really support multitasking.20:45
GeneralAntillesNo comment on anything Palm. :P20:45
Churlquestion about the RSS feeder:  im having no luck with the auto add feed or a manual entry,  the site is craigslist. question being, is the rss thing just like that?  picky?20:46
summatusmentisbut they fixed it so it's broken multi-tasking, and so you have no control over it!20:46
colonthreeDCC SEND "startkeylogger" 0 0 020:46
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GeneralAntillesPalm is such a cesspool20:46
GeneralAntillesThey haven't even had a theme change in, what, 8 years?20:46
lcuk_if the software supports saving and restoring its state quickly multi tasking doesnt matter that much20:47
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johnxlcuk_, except when it does20:47
JamieBennettI think Nokia should think about the work being done with the canola interface. It's rich and very finger friendly which is where a lot of today's phones are progressing towards (touch screens)20:47
summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: I agree Palm is not terribly attractive, but I really like the speed, and clean-ness of the interface.20:47
GeneralAntillesWell, here's what I frequently do with my N800: IRC, IM, browse the web and watch TV with HAVA.20:47
GeneralAntillesGet back to me when the iPhone can manage that.20:47
GeneralAntillesJamieBennett, thanks, no.20:48
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summatusmentisit does all of the above, save for maybe HAVA20:48
lcuk_JamieBennett, we are heading there already :)20:48
lcuk_only betterer (imho)20:48
summatusmentislcuk_: we are?20:48
johnxJamieBennett, for some tasks, I agree with you, for others it just doesn't fit20:48
JamieBennettlcuk Lets hope so20:48
GeneralAntillessummatusmentis, at the same time?20:48
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GeneralAntillesWITHOUT jailbreaking? :P20:48
summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: I think so...20:49
JamieBennettThe iphone interface is a similar interface and would rather see that on an open device than on an apple one20:49
summatusmentisI don't, and won't ever, own an iPhone20:49
GeneralAntillessummatusmentis, Appstore hasn't even launched. ;)20:49
GeneralAntillesand it DEFINITELY doesn't multitask like that.20:49
lcuk_summatusmentis, liqbase rendering could be tasked towards anything :)20:49
summatusmentislcuk_: :)20:49
summatusmentisI haven't had a chance to look at that yet, I had an HD fail20:50
GeneralAntillesCanola's style of interface works for some things20:50
GeneralAntillesbut not for all.20:50
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I like Hildon20:50
GeneralAntillesIt's an effective compromise for my purposes.20:50
summatusmentisneeds to be a bit more finger friendly20:50
summatusmentisbut otherwise I agree20:50
qwerty12_N800lcuk_, go on, you know you want to modify hildon-desktop + matchbox-window-manager with liqbase code :p20:50
lcuk_qwerty12_N800, patience :)20:50
JamieBennettI'd like to see an approach similar to the eeepc, a simple interface by default than can be made into a more geeky one with a little effort20:51
GeneralAntillesJamieBennett, we don't have that?20:52
JamieBennettOn Nokia's new QT/hybrid phones I mean20:52
GeneralAntillesMeh, cellphones suck20:52
GeneralAntillesI want my cellphone to make calls and be a modem20:52
GeneralAntillesThin, small, clamshell.20:52
* johnx looks forward to android20:53
summatusmentisjohnx: I wish OpenMoko would take off20:53
GeneralAntillesThey need clearer direction and real hardware.20:53
qwerty12_N800All I want to do is patch the statusbar to show more icons :/20:53
johnxsummatusmentis, I just don't know if it can get the backing they need20:53
GeneralAntillesThey're not well positioned for it. . . .20:53
summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: They're selling hardware now20:53
GeneralAntilles_real_ hardware20:54
zapanybody knows where I can get zip?20:54
johnxwhen you're on the devil's playground (cell carriers) you sometimes have to play by their rules20:54
summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: what does that mean?20:54
GeneralAntillesNot hardware that might've been considered mediocre 3 years ago.20:54
lcuk_its 640*480 display20:54
johnxsummatusmentis, the lack of 3G or even EDGE hurts...20:54
summatusmentisjohnx: yes, I agree20:54
lcuk_does it have wifi20:54
qwerty12_N800johnx, +120:54
summatusmentisyes, it has wifi20:54
summatusmentisand bluetooth20:54
GeneralAntillesSomebody like Nokia is in a much better position to push open source.20:54
lcuk_ok +1 openmoko -> Crappy phone for internet is 1 up on No phone for internet20:55
johnxI think google's android approach will work out better on phones than Nokia could manage20:55
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qwerty12_N800I want to see the Nokia Linux phone, Nokia *knows* about phones.20:55
summatusmentisI'm woried android won't be open enough20:55
GeneralAntillesI just don't care about what runs on my cellphone20:55
GeneralAntillesI like the 2-device setup.20:55
lcuk_GeneralAntilles, what if they did an apple and upgraded the modem in it?20:56
johnxsummatusmentis, we'll see when we get there. IIRC, google pledged to release davlik under the apache license when the first phone came out20:56
GeneralAntillesOpenMoko? They'd still need real battery life.20:56
summatusmentisIf someone could consolidate the tablet idea with a phone, without losing focus on the initial intent, I'd be all over20:56
summatusmentisover it20:56
GeneralAntillesTablets have to be bigger than phones.20:57
GeneralAntillesI'm not holding an N800 to the side of my face.20:57
GeneralAntillesAny smaller and it's worthless as a tablet20:57
qwerty12_N800 that would look an n-gage aka the taco phone20:57
johnxside talkin!20:57
lcuk_never said you wanted to GeneralAntilles, the modem would be used for data20:57
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summatusmentislcuk_: agreed, I'd be ok with even a phone modem for 'net connectivity20:58
GeneralAntillesI'm just not interested in a convergence device.20:58
GeneralAntillesand since my cellphone really only does two things, I don't care what it runs.20:58
summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: how do you do pim?20:59
GeneralAntillesI don't have need of it at the moment.20:59
GeneralAntillesphone has an addressbook, I suppose.20:59
GeneralAntillesBut I don't have the schedule load to justify a calendar or todo20:59
summatusmentiswell, yeah, I use my phone for pim/text/phone/modem, and IT for browsing, etc.20:59
GeneralAntillesBesides, any information I need is online.21:00
GeneralAntillesSo if I need something, just tether up and get it.21:00
* lcuk_ gets GeneralAntilles's bank details from online21:00
GeneralAntillesI've tried to do PIM in the past21:00
GeneralAntillesbut the result has always been me spending an inordinate amount of time screwing with the PIM21:01
wizaI'm actually waiting for the first android phone from htc21:02
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wizaI think I can manage my gps, emails and im on a little smaller screen21:02
johnxthere are couple of location aware apps I would like to be able to do one-handed. The tablet formfactor just doesn't cut it for one-handed use21:02
wizaas long as there is slideout keyboard21:03
GeneralAntillesjohnx, definitely true.21:03
johnxI would *love* a phone in the zaurus 5500 form factor running android21:03
summatusmentisjohnx: oof... that's a bit bulky for me21:03
johnxscale is everything. I'm like 190cm tall21:04
qwerty12_N800I dunno, if I had something that used linux, i'd like it to run ELF/ARM EABI (?) bina21:05
qwerty12_N800ries too.21:05
johnxjust scout out an android phone that's fairly open21:05
qwerty12_N800sorry, pressed down in hildon-im while typing.21:05
johnxsome will certainly be more hackable than others21:05
summatusmentisqwerty12_N800: most current embedded linux stuff is ARM EABI21:06
qwerty12_N800ah, okay21:06
johnxsummatusmentis, but android only allows apps written in their pseudo-java language21:06
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johnxalso, phone running android don't necessarily have to have an ARM CPU21:06
johnxcould be MIPS32 or somesuch21:06
summatusmentismeh... Android seems kinda lackluster, and late21:07
johnxcompared to what?21:07
summatusmentisI feel like iPhone has too much of a foothold for android to take off21:07
johnxsummatusmentis, thing bigger picture :)21:07
summatusmentisin what sense?21:08
wizaanyone tried carman on tablet?21:08
johnxgoogle would be stupid if the end goal wasn't for this to be on basically every "free" carrier-subsidized cell phone21:08
qwerty12_N800Meh, I'd like to judge by sales out of US :)21:08
wizathinking about buying obd-II adapter and testing...21:08
summatusmentisqwerty12_N800: sales in the US are all I know :)21:08
johnxmost people (in the US at least) still grab a cheap or almost-free phone rather than shell out for a smart phone21:08
summatusmentisjohnx: free touch-based phones? sign me up21:08
GeneralAntilleswiza, I did a while ago.21:09
summatusmentisbut is it feasible?21:09
GeneralAntillesIt's quite cool21:09
johnxsummatusmentis, android doesn't need touch21:09
GeneralAntillesthe new version should be even better.21:09
johnxcheap phone won't have it21:09
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qwerty12_N800Does carman work with RC car?21:09
summatusmentisjohnx: ok, fair enough21:09
johnxqwerty12_N800, provided it has an OBDII compliant ECU21:09
johnxsummatusmentis, heh...we'll see if my theory is right in a year or two21:10
johnxbut the minimum specs for android are pretty low21:10
qwerty12_N800It has charger port, think i could rewire it?21:10
summatusmentisjohnx: yep :)21:10
wizaI think my volvo s40 t4 -00 has one21:10
zapwhat software people uses to take N8xx screenshots?21:10
zapthe cpu-statusbar plugin doesn't work :)21:11
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GeneralAntilleswiza, all cars post 1996 do.21:11
GeneralAntilleszap, x11vnc21:11
zapsomething simpler?21:11
qwerty12_N800zap, load-applet. that applet depends on osso-screenshot-tool be installed21:11
lcuk_zap, what are you taking screenshots of21:12
GeneralAntilleser, what qwerty12_N800 said.21:12
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wizaElmScan5 Wireless is 165 euros...21:12
zaplcuk_: did yet another port of midnight commander :)21:12
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lcuk_ahhh right21:12
zaphmm, no osso-screenshot-tool in repos21:12
qwerty12_N800zap, any good? current port sucks, i had to set up debian chroot :/21:13
zapqwerty12_N800: mine is perfect :-]21:13
wizaGeneralAntilles: does usb connection work or does it have to be bluetooth?21:13
GeneralAntillesI never bothered to test with USB21:14
zapqwerty12_N800: if you're brave enough
GeneralAntillesI just used the rs-232 ElmScan with a BT adaptor21:14
qwerty12_N800zap, thanks, installing now21:14
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wizaGeneralAntilles: so that package which costs wayy more than normal one only has normal 10 euro bluetooth stick on the package?21:15
GeneralAntillesbut a Bluetooth host adaptor isn't going to do you, I don't think.21:16
GeneralAntillesI very much doubt the ElmScan supports host mode21:16
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wizayeah... figured, well, gotta try and find cheapest used one somewhere21:16
GeneralAntillesIt's definitely a cool tool to have around21:17
GeneralAntillesDiagnosed a broken oxygen sensor on my dad's Volvo21:17
GeneralAntillesIt'll be even cooler as a trip logger/GPS device with the new carman21:17
JamieBennettGeneralAntilles: Looking forward to the new version of carman, especially seeing it's code in an open repository again21:18
GeneralAntillesIt looks rather incredibly badass.21:18
GeneralAntillesThe trip logger is especially cool.21:18
JamieBennettI drive a lot and don't have a trip computer so Carman with the trip logging would be very cool21:19
GeneralAntillesFun to play with route distance/consumption/time calculation.21:19
GeneralAntillesFind the faster/most efficient way to work.21:19
wizait's only 100 euros in the states21:19
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GeneralAntillesNo sales tax, woo!21:20
wizaunless I it gets caught in customs which meast 12% customs and 22% vat21:21
qwerty12_N800it's a gift I tell you!21:21
JamieBennett**JamieBennett needs to find some US friends to send gifts ;)21:22
* qwerty12_N800 got an uncle in WA, i'll bribe him :p21:23
JamieBennettcan he send me a PS3?21:23
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qwerty12_N800Is it cheaper there?21:23
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JamieBennettMost electronics are21:23
qwerty12_N800:(. Adobe's excuse for charging us double is that we have smaller population.21:24
GeneralAntillesYes, our evil socialist government isn't quite as good at sucking us dry at every turn as yours.21:24
wizaI live in Finland, everything is cheaper everywhere else21:24
wizawell, almost21:24
qwerty12_N800aren't taxes high in Finland?21:25
wizabasically when you work for that piece of bread, 90% of the work you did went to the government, income tax, value added tax, all those mandatory not-really-taxes, transporting that bread with 1,5 euros/litre gas etc21:27
wizayeah, government takes your money21:27
GeneralAntillesI don't know how you guys put up with it.21:28
JamieBennettwiza: Its 1.5 POUNDS here in the UK for a litre of petrol!21:28
johnxthat's actually more than here O_o21:29
* dieman wonders21:30
wizaJamieBennett: yeah, I just almost want to shoot someone whining about $1 per litre gas...21:30
qwerty12_N800wiza, you should organise mass tax evasion scheme and tell them to stop their Paska21:30
JamieBennettwiza: indeed21:30
diemanyah, but we get bilked for staying alive here21:30
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summatusmentisholy cow... that's a lot of money21:30
wizaqwerty12_N800: believe me, I pay as less taxes as I can21:30
JamieBennettdieman: and billed for dieing ;)21:31
qwerty12_N800wiza, nice one :p21:31
doc|homeqwerty12_N800: kinda makes sense, less people buying, same amount of work required :/21:31
qwerty12_N800true, I can't they got a point but it still hurts! :(21:32
qwerty12_N800s/can't/can't deny/21:32
infobotqwerty12_N800 meant: true, I can't deny they got a point but it still hurts! :(21:32
JamieBennettI see the list for the summit hasn't grown lately, I would of thought there would be a mass surge of registrations in the first couple of days21:32
JamieBennett(of people attending that is)21:33
MangoFusionwell it is in september21:38
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JamieBennettMangoFusion: With these things you usually get a sudden rush when its announced, a steady stream and a last minute rush. It doesn't seem like there has been the initial rush yet. Has Nokia announced the numbers they _expect_ to be at the summit?21:39
MangoFusionplus i wouldn't have figured it out if i hadn't just noticed the topic21:40
MangoFusionso perhaps not many of the right people are aware of it yet?21:40
JamieBennettMangoFusion: Maybe more advertising is needed then?21:41
JamieBennett*** Off to blog now21:41
MangoFusionnever a bad idea21:42
MangoFusionmaybe a little hype is needed too21:42
JamieBennettMangoFusion: Indeed21:43
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lcuk_qwerty12_N800, you multitask as much as me21:46
qwerty12_N800don't get you :/21:47
lcuk_here and itt21:48
keesjPhones is not my cup of coffe currently21:48
qwerty12_N800ahh :)21:48
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JamieBennettmultitask, I'm scratching my nose whist watching the tele and typing, does that count? ;)21:49
keesjI really enjoyed linuxtag a lot , I guess linuxtag + fosdem is enough for me21:49
lcuk_keesj, are you coming to the summit21:50
keesjlcuk_: I don't know yet. perhaps I can combine it with a holiday but like I said phones ....21:52
keesjunless maemo is going to do phones. Didn't quim say he was going to amounce something that would amaze us?21:53
JamieBennettkeesj: Lets hope so21:53
keesjOr did he already and where not amazed :p21:54
GeneralAntillesPowerVR stuff and Fremantle stuff most likely.21:54
JamieBennettI'm off to OSim and the Maemo Summit and I have little interest in the mobile space (although I do have some interest). The tablets, Linux and of course networking is a big thing.21:54
JamieBennett(people networking)21:55
keesjmy gf uses the n810 as remote control for the dreambox21:55
keesjreally seeing people makes such a difference.21:55
JamieBennettkeesj: Working remotely from my central base at work I can concur wholeheartedly!21:56
keesjare you the same person as on ?21:58
JamieBennettkeesj: Yes21:58
keesjthat sports tracker thingy looks cool btw21:59
JamieBennettkeesj: Its the thing I use my Nokia n95 for the most! I do more runs than phone calls :)22:00
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Jaffakeesj: no, not really seen quilt. Will look at it; please feel free to post some links on the wiki page or on the mailing list.22:01
keesjnow if some guys of InDT would come over I would certainly go to the maemo conf22:02
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lardmanhmm,can I manually set the CPU frequency to 330MHz?22:03
keesjlike aloisiojr  :P22:03
* Jaffa reckons the "amaze stuff" will be the "Hildon UI" speeches. My "need scrolling consistency" bug has been marked as fixed entirely in Fremantle - with the suggestions from ragnar and others that it'll be something like intertial/finger scrolling22:03
JamieBennettkeesj: Indeed, I'd love to sit down with the indt guys for a chat (and buy them a beer!)22:03
Jaffakeesj: some of the INdT guys are coming over (e.g. Mamona)22:03
aloisiojrkeesj: hi!22:04
aloisiojrhi all22:05
qwerty12_N800lardman, you can change op mode on the fly, don't know if any opmode is defined 333mhz by default. or you can recompile kernel22:05
qwerty12_N800hi aloisiojr22:05
aloisiojryeah.. some of us are going to maemo summit :)22:05
lardmanqwerty12_N800: yeah, that's what I though22:05
lardmanqwerty12_N800: I was hoping I could echo the speed into one of the sysfs entries, but it doesn't seem to work22:06
aloisiojrqwerty12_N800: hi!22:06
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qwerty12_N800I think kotczarny had a patch for that but his server's gone :/22:06
qwerty12_N800for now, editing n800-dvfs seems only option afaik22:07
lardmanwhere's his server gone to?22:07
qwerty12_N800where's kotczarny gone?22:07
lcuk_\o/ im not a junior member anymore22:08
GeneralAntilleslol . . .22:08
qwerty12_N800congrats, break out the cola?22:08
* lcuk_ puts on his wizard hat22:08
GeneralAntillesThe member levels should probably be rethought.22:08
* Jaffa has a beer for lcuk_22:08
JamieBennett***JamieBennett has one too22:09
lcuk_i think ive stopped feeling like a n00b now :)22:09
GeneralAntilles /me, JamieBennett. :P22:09
lcuk_you have one GeneralAntilles ?22:09
JaffaHis own JamieBennett22:09
lardmanargh, still only ~4s of Moby22:09
JamieBennettI know its instinctive to type what I see on the screen rather than the command ;)22:09
Jaffatsk, n00b ;)22:10
JamieBennettI've done it twice now22:10
qwerty12_N800lardman, can't blame it for not wanting to play moby long :p22:10
timelyxwiza: taxes are higher in sweden or norway, no? :)22:10
lardmanqwerty12_N800: blame Nokia for supplying the track22:10
lcuk_lardman, you are going to hate that sample: when i was learning how to rip dvds to avi i played a single sample of a movie over and over again with different bitrates, now whenever i hear that bit in the movie the missus groans and nudges me22:10
lardmanqwerty12_N800: I'd love to hear more than the first 10s actually :D22:10
qwerty12_N800Lol :D22:11
lardmanlcuk_: :)22:11
wizatimelyx: I'm not exactly sure, least we have the lowest standard of living iirc22:11
* qwerty12_N800 actually prefers CPU/DSP to be 400/133 rather than 333/266 . I need to repatch kernel.22:12
lardmanhmm, strange, I see a message about a broken pipe with the DSP, but not with the SW encoder, even if the SW encoder is running at a lower cpu speed (and not outputting sound)22:12
timelyxtaxes for finland fell below norway and iceland :)22:14
keesjaloisiojr: I just registered , see you there22:15
qwerty12_N800Anyone know a site with N800 datasheets?22:16
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timelyxother than nokia(usa).com and wikipedia?22:17
wizatimelyx: that's kinda old document, but I think we have little smaller taxes in % but we also have hidden costs on employment etc which makes our prices so high that standard of living stays low22:17
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timelyxwiza: i couldn't find a more recent doc22:17
timelyxiirc sweden is still slightly higher for taxes22:18
timelyxanyway. i'm here too (see hostmask)22:18
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qwerty12_N800thanks, I said it wrong, I mean hardware specs, datasheets on the hardware inside (omap2420 etc)22:18
GeneralAntillesThere were some schematics posted on itT a while ago22:21
GeneralAntillesbut goodluck on the OMAP2 stuff. ;)22:21
* GAN800 wishes the update applet would list 3rd party stuff individually.22:22
qwerty12_N800I've got the schematics, just looking for the rest of the stuff :). those manuals earlier got me interested in this sort of stuff.22:22
GAN800mplayer updated. . .  .22:22
* qwerty12_N800 goes and does an lshal22:23
keesjJamieBennett: you do burry a lot of news. what kinds of maemo news don't you like?22:26
keesjhmm you also have  lot of favourites22:26
JamieBennettkeesj: The promotes and buries I see and a 'what does the community want to see'. The most promoted go to the news front page so I feel the most appropriate ones should go there, not stories about 'what I did yesterday at the park'. I read the maemo planet everyday so I may as well help in 'moderating' it.22:28
JamieBennetts/I seen and/I see as22:29
JamieBennettOoo, I thought of a purpose of attending the summit apart from my interests. Maybe I can video the talks on a HD camcorder to release afterwards to the community?22:31
* lcuk_ suddenly and inexplicably drops out of the summit ;)22:31
JamieBennettlcuk especially the beers afterwards ;) (for bribery of course)22:32
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* GAN800 makes plan to press 1000 copies of lcuk's session.22:32
lcuk_i dont know about afterwards, i was a bag of nerves last time, is it wrong to have beer before?22:32
lcuk_after i was fine22:32
JamieBennettDepends if its 8am in the morning or not ;)22:33
lcuk_i was in shock - i hadnt been around that many developers - ever.22:33
Jaffa8am's fine if we don't go to bed beforehand.22:33
JamieBennettJaffa: I like your style :)22:33
* Jaffa isn't sure his fatherly, 30 year-old body could take an all-nighter; but as a scientist, I should be willing to test hypotheses22:34
lcuk_jaffa, ill drink to that22:34
* lcuk_ wants to be a scientist when he grows up22:34
lcuk_but i think im doomed to stay in computers forever22:35
* Jaffa 's going to have a shower now Jaffa Jr, mk.1 is in bed. Get a beer and watch Doctor Who Confidential.22:35
JaffaWell, computer scientist.22:35
JaffaNot codemonkey :)22:35
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* JamieBennett My 29 (will be 30 at the summit) body is more than willing to try as my two children will be tucked up in bed as I'm away :)22:35
lcuk_ahhh to have the time to develop what i want to do full time :)22:35
JaffaIt was either CS, astrophysics or quantum mechanics at university. Chose the easiest :)22:36
* lcuk_ has almost no time22:36
* Jaffa is almost in the enviable position of work at being able to tell management what we should do - *and be listened to*.22:36
JaffaNearly, anyway.22:36
JamieBennettEven when your in that position they never listen (I know!)22:37
JaffaTsk, at least let me leave the dream!22:38
lcuk_we dont know when we are set to arrive yet do we?  i hope to get there fresh on thursday to give me time to wind down after horrid flight22:38
JamieBennettI'll be there Tuesday22:38
lcuk_no jaffa, get those tps reports dont22:38
JamieBennett(for OSim world)22:38
JamieBennettWe should definitely arrange beers22:38
lcuk_you freelance?22:38
* Jaffa is hoping to arrive Tuesday for OSiM World - assuming the holiday is approved (no reason to assume not)22:39
lcuk_if im there on thursday i will need beer22:39
JamieBennettlcuk who?22:39
lcuk_:( i can only get 2 days off22:39
lcuk_you jamie22:39
Jaffalcuk_: the flight in from Stansted gets there quite late; we'll let you know where the beers'll be22:39
JamieBennettlcuk: Sorry, yes and no. I have my own consultancy business but I also work for a large gaming company22:40
lcuk_good job im not goin from stansted, and it will be sometime thursday (fingers crossed for early)22:40
Jaffalcuk_: ah, cool22:40
* lcuk_ doesnt know what the nokia travel ageny lottery will draw for him22:41
lcuk_at least i hope they can arrange it again else i am bolloxed22:41
JamieBennettI'm trying to find a hotel so if there is a majority staying at a particular one then please someone let me know22:41
JamieBennett(no hostels though)22:42
JaffaJamieBennett: I'm looking at the top link at - reasonably priced (IMHO) and about halfway between OSim's location & Summit's location.22:42
JaffaJamieBennett: ditto; need my own bathroom :)22:42
JamieBennettI don't do sweaty teenagers unless they are my own ;)22:43
JamieBennettJaffa: looks good22:43
JaffaThere's a slightly more expensive Ibis, more in the centre and closer to the summit, but further from OSiM22:44
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JamieBennettI need something in the middle really and with some company as I travel a lot and travelling with no drinking partner is pretty boring :)22:45
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JaffaJamieBennett: I don't know Berlin at all. And ditto on the travelling & drinking. Also prefer walking when in a city centre rather than cabs or buses. Especially since I don't speak German.22:46
lcuk_berlin in the sunshine is a wonderful city22:47
pupniki might be living there by Sept22:47
lcuk_:) pupnik i was just thinking of you22:47
pupniki'm not feeling very sunshiney22:48
JamieBennettJaffa: It will be my first trip to Berlin. 356 euro's for the 4 nights isn't too bad at all and if you are going to OSim too it will be good to meet up.22:48
pupnikbut yeah totally cool to visit with all that street level life22:48
* lardman should put his name down22:48
lardmanBerlin was really good22:48
lcuk_yes simon, you absolutely should22:48
JamieBennettJaffa: Did you get any reply from qgil about OSim entry?22:50
JaffaJamieBennett: Other than what he said on the wiki, no.22:52
JamieBennettJaffa: Would be nice if I don't have to spend the 400 euros on the event too, lets see.22:53
lardmananyone know where alsa-play lives?22:53
kkrustypupnik: Though this is redundant. I emailed you22:54
* Jaffa 'll put a reply on the end when the holiday's confirmed (and then I'll book the hotel - probably the mercure - and my trains)22:54
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JaffaShit, the mercure's gone up - it was 60-odd euros a night last time I looked.22:54
lcuk_tick, tock22:54
Jaffa356 is still not bad, but might have another check around tomorrow before booking :)22:55
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JamieBennettLet me know Jaffa as I'll be booking tomorrow. I'm not keen on a hostel so where ever someone else will be in a hotel is a bonus :D22:56
JaffaJamieBennett: I'll check with you, if possible, before booking22:57
JamieBennettJaffa: Thanks22:57
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lcuk_im goin for a bit23:03
lcuk_cyas later23:03
JamieBennettlcuk: Cya23:03
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qwerty12_N800lardman, I compiled it once from alsa-utils/tools (can't remember which)23:11
lardmanqwerty12_N800: thanks, just trying to work out why this broken pipe & reset sound card message with the dsp but not the sw fallback23:12
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qwerty12_N800hmm, sorry, don't know what i'm chatting, I can't find alsaplay in debian packages but I can find alsaplayer in alsaplayer-common23:15
lardmanhmm, mplayer spits the message out23:15
kkrustyI didnt find xchat in diablo extra23:16
GeneralAntillesIt's there. . . .23:17
JamieBennettLooks like I'll be videoing the whole summit, is there anything that you would like to see apart from the talks, interviews, questions e.t.c? If so send your suggestions to and I'll try to sort it out.23:17
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kkrustyGeneralAntilles: Im using the application manager and theres nothing between "whoami" and "youamp"23:22
GeneralAntillesDo you have Diablo Extras installed?23:22
GeneralAntillesOr did you change it to Chinook Extras?23:23
* kkrusty hopes its not case sensitive23:23
qwerty12_N800It's in diablo extras-devel23:24
GeneralAntillesIt was promoted, wasn't it?23:24
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kkrustyyes I found it there. But there must be a reason why its there23:25
qwerty12_N800can't be, there's no x folder in diablo extras :)23:25
lardman30s and counting :)23:26
qwerty12_N800woot, you go lardman! :)23:26
lardmanI've even made it past the intro now :)23:26
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lardmanI wasn't missing much, he just repeats the same words again and again, was pretty similar to my repeats of the first 4s :)23:27
lardmanand the answer to the problem was memory access speed23:27
lardmanI moved the data buffers to SRAM rather than SDRAM23:27
kkrustyso extra-devel? or should I wait?23:27
GeneralAntillesIt works fine.23:28
kkrustyGeneralAntilles: thanks23:28
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JamieBennettAlso edit if you want to see something from the summit23:33
lardmanif I svn commit, can I do a directory at a time?23:33
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kulveI think so, yes23:34
lardmanyep, just put the path, thanks23:34
lardmanhmm, the sound is still a bit ropey though23:35
lardmanslows & speeds up, but perhaps that's just my ears?23:36
lardmanI seem to remember the sw method was like that last year23:36
lardmanright, I think this deserves a release to test other people's ears too23:37
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DekaritaeTablet for leftys23:42
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zapqwerty12_N800: what is dpad?23:44
qwerty12_N800the left, right, up + down buttons :)23:45
zaphow freetype can affect dpad?23:46
zapwell, I can swear that dpad works for me ;-)23:47
qwerty12_N800thanks, i dunno, it may have been another effect but as soon as i restored the old one, it "worked" again :)23:48
zapoh well, g'night people23:52
GeneralAntillesWe really need a more straightforward partitioning method than sfdisk.23:53
qwerty12_N800i've got cdisk (ncurses based)23:53
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800, would you recommend it as an alternative to sfdisk for newbies?23:54
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qwerty12_N800Hmm, I'd have to say i'm undecided. it does have an easier interface then sfdisk. i'll check it out again.23:55
GeneralAntillesNeed penguinbait back here to document his .debs for it.23:55
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