IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2008-07-03

lbt	I've got an apple tree - they keep falling off too	00:00
JamieBennett	Lets have a guessing session, apart from porn star what does every teenage boy want to do when they 'grow-up' ;)	00:00
lcuk	zap, what do you mean and which errors	00:00
lbt	marry one?	00:00
derf	JamieBennett: Play professional sports.	00:00
JamieBennett	derf: too energetic!	00:00
\|\|cw	win the lottery?	00:00
JamieBennett	too easy	00:01
lcuk	in a geeks room, i would say about 80% astronauts	00:01
JamieBennett	lol	00:01
\|\|cw	game programming	00:01
qwerty12_N800	pimp?	00:01
JamieBennett	bingo	00:01
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derf	lcuk: That's usually beaten out of them by reality by the time they're teenagers.	00:01
JamieBennett	not pimp	00:01
JamieBennett	I write games	00:01
\|\|cw	pimp, yeah!	00:01
JamieBennett	It would pay better!	00:02
* lcuk wanted to work at ocean software :)		00:02
lardman	pimp means something different for American's doesn't it?	00:02
lardman	s/American's/Americans	00:02
derf	lardman: What does it mean for Brits?	00:02
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lardman	derf: Sell whores	00:02
derf	lardman: That's what it means in America.	00:03
JamieBennett	Ocean, now they did some good games!	00:03
lardman	ah, I always thought pimping a ride was more the thing	00:03
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GeneralAntilles	pimp is also a slang term for "cool" here.	00:03
lardman	ah right	00:03
derf	lardman: That's just slang.	00:03
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lcuk	JamieBennett, :) are you in a large house as a tiny part of a huge mega project or are you in a small team developing major chunks?	00:03
GeneralAntilles	But "a pimp" has the same meaning both sides.	00:03
derf	Well, "pimp" the slang means excessively flashy.	00:04
lcuk	ie, are you an EA slave or a Valve megagod	00:04
derf	E.g., http://www.completelybonkers.co.uk/images/smi2%20pimp%20purple.jpg	00:04
JamieBennett	lcuk, small team and self contained games from start to finish, the best way	00:04
lcuk	derf, where you get my picture from	00:04
qwerty12_N800	derf, a camp pimp?	00:04
zap	lcuk: for example physics sym or game test	00:04
lcuk	what systems do you target?	00:04
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derf	Or http://www.icedoutgear.com/media/Pimp%20Gobleet.jpg	00:05
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derf	lcuk: Google image search, of course.	00:05
GeneralAntilles	http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pimp #4 and #7	00:05
lcuk	zap, read the instructions and create _apg folder and give it rights	00:05
lcuk	infact in the zip there is a base _apg folder	00:05
jakemaheu	i'm back	00:05
zap	aha	00:05
lcuk	sorry theres no installer	00:05
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whooper	so what's going on?	00:06
qwerty12_N800	Ed_ really needs to add an freedesktop notification to openssh postinst saying ssh-keygen is doing its stuff >.<	00:06
whooper	hey qwerty?	00:07
qwerty12_N800	hey whooper	00:07
whooper	what's deal with the patch for android?	00:07
qwerty12_N800	I need to fix some other things before i release it.	00:08
whooper	ah, like mplayer?	00:08
qwerty12_N800	yeah :9	00:08
whooper	he	00:08
whooper	*heh	00:08
qwerty12_N800	(and games that use xsp)	00:08
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whooper	okay	00:09
qwerty12_N800	JamieBennett, nice app btw	00:09
JamieBennett	well stone me it was the rogue insertions from geany that stopped it working, works now BTW	00:09
crashanddie_	qwerty: 42,727118, 2,987390	00:09
qwerty12_N800	crashanddie_, You are my hero	00:10
qwerty12_N800	(if the cords are real :p)	00:10
crashanddie_	though, that's my bro in law	00:10
JamieBennett	qwerty12_N800 have you tired it in the last couple of minutes. It installs and works fine now apart from the help screen not quiting nicely (need to hook it to a gtk quit)	00:10
* towo thumbs the coordinates and says "eww"		00:10
crashanddie_	qwerty: so if you try to steal something, you'll have a bull terrier chewing on you leg	00:11
qwerty12_N800	JamieBennett, i'm using the deb you linked to before, with the ^M removed from python.2.5	00:11
* whooper turned down steak for hot dogs		00:11
* whooper thinks steak is gross		00:11
qwerty12_N800	crashanddie_, the bro in law?	00:12
crashanddie_	no, his dogs	00:12
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JamieBennett	qwerty12_N800: Cool. I do a lot of travelling and this kind of app was missing I thought. Lots of people have requested it so why not. I'll tidy it up and make an announcement tomorrow.	00:12
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whooper	what app-- i wansn't lurking	00:13
whooper	*wasn't	00:13
lcuk2	hmm	00:13
lcuk	JamieBennett, spam link again im on 810	00:13
qwerty12_N800	JamieBennett, I like it, thanks for the app :). But have you thought of sorting the list in alphabetical order?	00:13
whooper	what app?	00:13
lcuk	http://linuxuk.org/downloads/mcurrency/mcurrency_0.1.0-1_all.deb	00:14
lcuk	got it..	00:14
JamieBennett	I can sort it in any order, alphabetical seems reasonable	00:14
JamieBennett	lcuk, you got it	00:14
qwerty12_N800	lcuk's been cloned, aiii!!!	00:14
whooper	currency converter?	00:14
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lcuk2	no i havent	00:14
JamieBennett	yes, online, gets the days conversion rates they you specify a value, a from and to currency and it converts	00:15
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qwerty12_N800	how do i know which one is the real one speaking?	00:15
whooper	okay, that's neat	00:15
JamieBennett	small app that satisfies an inch that is surprisingly common (from the mail I've recieved)	00:16
lcuk	JamieBennett, usability (not sure if its possible) but a number field should set me up to type numbers directly without having to double tap Fn key (n810)	00:16
lcuk	otherwise great :D	00:16
lcuk	qwerty12_N800, you dont	00:16
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qwerty12_N800	eek	00:17
lcuk	JamieBennett, :) thanks for posting	00:17
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JamieBennett	lcuk: no problem. I don't have an n810 do I have no idea what it does.	00:17
* qwerty12_N801 runs around and compiles stuff		00:17
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derf	I mean, usually if you're online you just use a webpage to do currency conversions.	00:17
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JamieBennett	The next version will store the last date it got and use that to convert if you have no connection	00:18
derf	That's getting closer to being actually useful.	00:18
JamieBennett	indeed	00:18
lcuk	just hold onto it anyway and if its out of date just add a little warning "rates are 4 days old"	00:18
lcuk	its not like you have a problem of screen estate	00:19
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JamieBennett	lcuk: yeah the '0.1.0' release is very alpha! On a side note I oftern look at the 'deals' in the airport and think its good only to be stung when I look at the exchange rate	00:19
lcuk	damn! i thought it was polished and was going to get it updated to extras and autobuilt and stuff :P	00:20
* lcuk knows all about 0.00000000001.00000001 releases		00:21
JamieBennett	Urmm, give me opengl and some serious hardware, I can polish! this is my first attempt for the tablets :D	00:21
lcuk	opengl is a bit hard	00:21
lcuk	we have the hardware but no driver	00:21
JamieBennett	:(	00:21
derf	What fun is polish if you're using OpenGL?	00:21
derf	That's tantamount to cheating.	00:21
JamieBennett	Clutter would open the tablet to some really cool stuff	00:22
lcuk	dont knock him, that currency convertor would look AMAZING with opengl effects	00:22
lcuk	JamieBennett, :) what if you looked at clutter another way. have you downloaded liqbase or seen the video?	00:23
* lcuk has clutter on his mind		00:23
JamieBennett	lcuk I use clutter for another one of my projects (http://www.entertainer-project.com)	00:23
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* qwerty12_N800 sweeps away lcuk's clutter to find nothing underneath		00:24
lcuk	pesky kids	00:24
lcuk	waves his walking stick at him .o/	00:25
lcuk	+ /me	00:25
lcuk	see, im senile	00:25
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JamieBennett	Time for bed, early start (4:30am) tomorrow. Thanks for the help tonight guys (and gals - maybe wishful thinking!)	00:27
lcuk	gnite JamieBennett	00:27
qwerty12_N800	'nite	00:28
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lcuk	right, im goin as well. if i dont close this ill get nothin done	00:28
lcuk	cyas later	00:28
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lardman	night chaps	00:30
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eichi_	on maemo.org they are talking about "diablo extras" what do they mean? repository.maemo.org/ extras without chinook?	00:41
eichi_	or what?	00:41
GeneralAntilles	a blank distribution field defaults to your current distribution	00:41
GeneralAntilles	so if you're running Diablo, then it's 'diablo'	00:42
GeneralAntilles	Diablo Extras is the diablo distribution part of Extras.	00:42
eichi_	means?	00:42
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eichi_	"No applications in Diablo extras is not fun. Users are complaining about this, with a reason." where is "diablo extras" ?	00:43
GeneralAntilles	There's a part of the repository for diablo and a part for chinook	00:43
eichi_	http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/diablo/ this one?	00:44
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GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, poke.	00:46
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qgil	hi there, do you know http://tllts.org/ ? I got invited tonight but I have no idea about the show	00:47
timelyx	heh	00:47
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timelyx	qgil: grab a podcast of an old eps :)	00:50
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qgil	timelyx: I did already and I know how it sounds - still not how people perceives it :)	00:55
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GeneralAntilles	Ah, fun, Android spam on itT. :P	01:00
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whooper	ga: what?	01:02
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lbt	anyone for a bit of C++ ... I want to make P protected in this minimal example: http://pastebin.com/d22a75da1	01:04
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penguinb8	rude people suck!	01:30
Dekaritae	Grammar is fluid	01:31
eichi_	penguinb8, if i do 2 ext3 with your script, does copy the flash system 2 times? it seems like that	01:35
jott	lbt: how about making A a friend of B? not that nice but should work ...	01:35
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penguinb8	yes	01:36
penguinb8	eichi	01:36
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eichi_	okay ;)	01:36
penguinb8	how about shooting B?	01:36
penguinb8	:)	01:37
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towo	nuke them from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.	01:37
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lbt	jott: B doesn't change A so doesn't need to be a friend (if I've got that the right way rouund). I didn't want B a friend of A 'cos it already bailed me out when I referred to the members directly in the wrong class by mistake.	01:39
lbt	I may not have much choice if C++ can't do it.	01:40
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lbt	ah - hold on - I understand now - make A a friend of B so B can see A::P... gotcha...	01:41
lbt	ugh	01:41
derf	I'd encourage you not to try to think about these things too hard.	01:41
derf	C++ "access control" really only amounts to helpful suggestions, at best.	01:42
lbt	I wanted to make it elegant...	01:42
lbt	<sigh>	01:42
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derf	Consider the following thought experiment:	01:42
derf	#define class struct	01:42
derf	#define private public	01:42
derf	#define protected public	01:43
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derf	That and the fact that any change to the "private" interface of a class makes you recompile everything anyway.	01:43
derf	It's more of a joke than a useful language feature.	01:44
lbt	well, I'm a perl hacker at heart - so making classes out of spare parts...	01:44
lbt	but I did think about the private thing earlier	01:44
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lbt	I think I'll just make a Parser in my address space and make it a friend of the other classes - forget the nesting...	01:46
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lbt	s/address /name/	01:46
infobot	lbt meant: I think I'll just make a Parser in my namespace and make it a friend of the other classes - forget the nesting...	01:46
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lbt	oh - cute..	01:47
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lbt	hmm, I wonder what hmm it will hmm do here	01:47
bex	what irc client can i use on os2008?	01:47
lbt	s/hmm/mmh/g#	01:47
lbt	hmm, I wonder what hmm it will hmm do here	01:48
lbt	s/hmm/mmh/g	01:48
infobot	lbt meant: mmh, I wonder what mmh it will mmh do here	01:48
lbt	nope	01:48
lbt	OK bedtime	01:48
lbt	night all	01:48
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eichi_	Nokia-N800-23-14:/opt# tar xfvj debian-armel-n800-xfce-beta3.tar.bz2	01:51
eichi_	tar: can't open 'vj': No such file or directory	01:51
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* Mousey uses xchat for irc		01:51
eichi_	whats that for a show?	01:51
derf	eichi_: tar -xvjf	01:51
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eichi_	tar: invalid option -- j	01:52
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Mousey	apt-get -t unstable install tar	01:52
derf	Yeah, you need to ditch busybox.	01:52
eichi_	means?	01:53
eichi_	Mousey, doenst work	01:53
eichi_	busybox is already the newest version.	01:53
jott	you need gnu tar with thos "propiertary" extension ;)	01:53
Mousey	no, i'd imagine not. there's not really a notion of "unstable" in maemo	01:53
jott	(after all you don't need "j" or "z" with recent gnu tars)	01:54
Mousey	what derf said is right, busybox == suck	01:54
Mousey	bunzip2 filename.tar.gz	01:54
bex	i tried installing xchat on my n800 but there were dependencies i couldn't figure out how to get	01:54
Mousey	then tar xvf filename.tar	01:54
eichi_	busybox is something like a kindergarten instead of a real bash?	01:54
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derf	It's a crippled, feature-free version of a number of standard tools designed for "embedded devices" when that meant the thing had 4MB of RAM at most.	01:55
jott	well gnu userland is a non-standard extension of the posix world ;)	01:55
derf	It's fine for cash registers, but maemo is a little bit more capable than your average cash register.	01:56
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eichi_	but the n800 should have enauht ram for a real bash with gnu aps?	01:57
derf	Yes.	01:57
Mousey	apt-get install bash3	01:57
eichi_	on my router its okay, but not on my pda	01:57
Mousey	s/pda/umpc/	01:57
towo	zsh	01:59
towo	zsh	01:59
towo	zshhhhhh!	01:59
Mousey	ksh!	01:59
Mousey	ftw!	01:59
derf	Um, no.	02:00
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derf	I've had to use ksh.	02:00
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eichi_	lol now i have a archive on my n800 and realy cant get the content...its funny	02:00
derf	eichi_: Do you have bunzip2?	02:01
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eichi_	i dont have a repo containing this	02:02
bex	is there a default password (not lock code) on maemo?	02:03
bex	to get root	02:03
jott	~easyroot	02:04
infobot	[easyroot] an easy way to get root access on OS2008 and can be found at http://nitapps.com	02:04
eichi_	derf, no	02:05
Mousey	or just ssh root@localhost	02:05
eichi_	i will now use my laptop, gnarf	02:05
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Atarii	hong kong fuckin rocks!	02:07
eichi_	bex, try to install openSsh (server) and login with ssh	02:07
Grackle	I compiled gforth for diablo, wee.	02:08
Atarii	i got my stuff for 770 host mode and it works!	02:10
Toba	any rumours of pysqlite for maemo?	02:10
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Toba	hi summatusmentis	02:15
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whooper	hey	02:23
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whooper	i'm back	02:24
whooper	does anyone think we should have a maemo summit of our own-- in the US?	02:25
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whooper	hmm?	02:26
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Mousey	i'd go	02:30
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, counter-poke	02:31
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bex	is this the best place to get xchat? http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/maemo/pool/bora/maemo-xchat_2.8.2-bora1_armel.deb	02:52
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bex	it needs a few packages to install, but i dont know how to get them	02:53
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, counter-poke	02:54
crashanddie	GAN800, ping	02:54
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, next time you need to tell me something just PM/email (crashanddie@gmail.com)	02:58
bex	oh you can add repositories	02:59
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lcuk	bex, try here http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/	03:00
lcuk	no need for a repo, the one you were trying was an older version (i believe)	03:00
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bex	thanks	03:03
bex	you rule!	03:03
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UserID10T	Hey everyone!	03:04
UserID10T	For those who aren't idle at least, heh.	03:04
crashanddie	hi	03:04
Raytray	Uhm, Hello.	03:05
UserID10T	Ray you act as if saying hi is weird.	03:05
UserID10T	Anywho, I had a question about editing a file on my n800, if anyone wouldn't mind helping me out.	03:06
Raytray	I suppose it is when you're saying hi to 273 people. If they all reply, well, that'd be some amount of spam.	03:06
UserID10T	Your logic rings true. I shake my fist at it.	03:06
crashanddie	yet, of the 273 users, only 3 are active	03:07
UserID10T	Go figure, huh crash?	03:07
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Raytray	True, which is why I struggled to say it hehe.	03:07
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UserID10T	Well, on my n800, I was trying to edit /etc/mce/mce.ini, but after I hit save, emelfm2(my file manager) said "cannot create: permission denied"	03:08
UserID10T	Is this normal?	03:08
UserID10T	If not, what might be the cause?	03:08
Mousey	bad permissions	03:08
crashanddie	because it's ran as user	03:08
Mousey	i just fixed that	03:08
Mousey	chown is your friend	03:08
crashanddie	and user is not allowed to write there	03:08
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UserID10T	I used sudo gainroot to try as root...	03:08
UserID10T	Does this not work, when using a file manager program?	03:09
crashanddie	dunno, I don't know your file manager	03:09
UserID10T	And also...if you've fixed it, what should I do? I am very very new to the tablets, and even newer to linux.	03:09
crashanddie	UserID10T, try this: sudo gainroot then vi /etc/mce/mce.ini	03:09
UserID10T	vi /etc/mce/mce.ini as a command in xterm?	03:09
crashanddie	UserID10T, once you're in vi, hit colon, then w, and enter	03:09
UserID10T	Right on.	03:09
UserID10T	I have no idea what that did but it was awesome doing it.	03:11
UserID10T	Hehe.	03:11
crashanddie	lol	03:11
crashanddie	basically, you opened the file as root, and wrote the content to disk	03:11
UserID10T	Now I should be able to access and edit the file?	03:11
crashanddie	in other words, as rood, you can access/write to it	03:12
crashanddie	root**	03:12
UserID10T	So simply using sudo gainroot is not effective?	03:12
crashanddie	it would seem	03:12
crashanddie	I'm guessing your file manager forks the child process as the normal user ID	03:13
crashanddie	UserID10T, there's 3 ways of doing what you want, well, 4 actually	03:13
UserID10T	How do I give my file manager root access?	03:13
crashanddie	UserID10T, first: edit the file using a root-enabled manner (vi, for example, or creating the file, and copy it over when being root)	03:13
UserID10T	As of this point, I am not comfortable enough with xterm to do it all from there.	03:14
crashanddie	second: give everyone write permission on the file (not very secure)	03:14
crashanddie	third: change the owner of the file, to the "normal user", so that you can edit it using your favo editor	03:14
crashanddie	and fourth would be to hard to explain	03:15
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crashanddie	I would definitely encourage number 1	03:15
UserID10T	Well using method 1...how is vi used, or is there documentation on it's purpose and use?	03:15
UserID10T	Also, as I followed your direction, :w(enter) did a lot of...nothing?	03:16
crashanddie	it wrote the content of the file :)	03:16
crashanddie	try :q	03:16
UserID10T	Doh I accidentally ran vi by itself...	03:18
crashanddie	not a problem	03:18
crashanddie	:q	03:18
crashanddie	will quit	03:18
UserID10T	did	03:18
UserID10T	Heh	03:18
crashanddie	basic run through, vi filename	03:18
crashanddie	opens filename	03:18
crashanddie	hitting "i" (once or twice, can't remember) will put you in insert mode, so you can add stuff	03:19
crashanddie	to exit insert mode, hit esc	03:19
UserID10T	I see how it works now...	03:19
crashanddie	when you're in command mode, type :wq to save and quit	03:19
crashanddie	:q! to force quit without saving (if you modified)	03:19
UserID10T	I see! so i to edit, then :w to save	03:19
UserID10T	:q to quit	03:19
UserID10T	nods	03:19
crashanddie	double tap d to delete a line	03:20
crashanddie	etc	03:20
derf	And most important, u to undo.	03:21
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derf	For when you type something in command mode when you thought you were in insert mode and crazy things start happening.	03:21
UserID10T	hmmmm I went into insert mode...and I'm done editing.	03:22
Veggen	esc	03:22
qgil	Ready for http://tllts.org/	03:22
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UserID10T	How do I exit insert mode to :w?	03:22
crashanddie	(crashanddie) to exit insert mode, hit esc	03:22
qgil	damn, is 3:22am in Helsinki!	03:22
Veggen	2:22 in Bergen.	03:22
UserID10T	Hooray, let's see if it works.	03:22
Veggen	And I just got home from an evening trip to a mountain.	03:22
wiza	it's 3:22am in Pori!	03:22
wiza	:d	03:22
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crashanddie	anyway	03:23
crashanddie	like some people pointed out	03:23
crashanddie	way too late	03:23
wiza	and I'm moving 700 meg sql dumps	03:23
crashanddie	I'm heading out, crashing to bed	03:23
crashanddie	cheers	03:23
wiza	I'm thinking about lunch break...	03:23
UserID10T	Thank you crash!	03:23
crashanddie	np	03:23
UserID10T	and everyone who gave me amazing info!	03:23
UserID10T	7:23 here in Austin,Texas	03:24
crashanddie	btw, you can actually put "vi user" on your CV :p	03:24
UserID10T	CV?	03:24
crashanddie	resume	03:24
UserID10T	Oh. lol	03:24
wiza	ffs mysql dump compatibility error	03:24
UserID10T	It worked <3	03:25
crashanddie	wiza, reminds me when I worked for the french national scientific research center, I bought 3 gigs of ram for my laptop cuz I had to run a 2gig+ SQL database	03:25
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wiza	I'm just trying to get the freaking databases copied from production server to staging server	03:26
crashanddie	add drop table and data structure	03:26
wiza	they are there, but production is running(of course) newer mysql	03:28
wiza	ffs	03:28
wiza	this is so not in my job description	03:28
wiza	maybe compatible=mysql40 will fix it	03:29
wiza	or I'm going home and cry myself to sleep with 18yo glennfiddich	03:29
wiza	-n	03:30
qgil	fyi 1 one min Ihttp://tllts.org/ starts and I have been invited tot talk about Maemo and stuff	03:30
qgil	"see you" there, switching off here for concentration	03:30
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\|penguinbait\|	qgil - wow, never seen you in person :)	03:31
\|penguinbait\|	sort of	03:31
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UserID10T	So I've heard there was an issue with the softpoweroff feature?	03:34
UserID10T	For the n800	03:34
UserID10T	well, for n800/810	03:34
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Proteous	I haven't heard that	03:45
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Proteous	I did hear my cat fart though	03:45
UserID10T	That's pretty gross. Did you shoo the cat, or revel in the glory?	03:45
Proteous	no reveling here	03:46
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UserID10T	Well...I set softpoweroff to short power press...and it blacks the screen out.	03:46
UserID10T	Buuuuuuut, you can press the screen and bring it back.	03:46
bex	is there a car charger i can buy for my n800?	03:46
UserID10T	Yes	03:46
Proteous	is it plugged in while you try this?	03:47
UserID10T	Nope.	03:47
UserID10T	I found instructions for modifying /etc/mce/mce.ini to enable softpoweroff...but when I use it, it doesn't STAY in softpoweroff.	03:48
UserID10T	I especially want this to save power when not using it, and disabling wifi automatically.	03:48
Proteous	I don't know what softpoweroff does	03:48
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Proteous	you can set the wifi timeout to something short	03:48
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UserID10T	it's SUPPOSED to lock the keys, dim screen, and drop wifi automatically	03:48
UserID10T	And reconnect wifi upon return	03:48
UserID10T	Pretty slick if you ask me.	03:49
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Proteous	sounds interesting	03:51
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whooper	kewl	03:52
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Proteous	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2306	03:53
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bex	hmm do you think i could use my nokia cell phone charger for my n800?	03:56
Proteous	you need to check to mA rating	03:56
bex	car charger, that is	03:56
lcuk	i use my gfs older home charger	03:57
UserID10T	If you want one, and want it now...let me give you the specs for the power.	03:57
Proteous	if it outputs over 890mA	03:57
lcuk	and ive got a single AA charger	03:57
Proteous	at 5v then it is okay	03:57
lcuk	Proteous, my gfs is nokia but not over 890, i think its 600 but cant b certain	03:57
bex	lemme see which charger i have	03:57
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UserID10T	Here is a cheap cheap cheap charger	03:58
UserID10T	For the care	03:59
UserID10T	car*	03:59
UserID10T	http://www.topsellings.com/en/nokia-n800-car-charger-p2444.html	03:59
UserID10T	2 bucks????	03:59
Proteous	I wouldn't plug my $350 device into a $2 device killer	04:00
UserID10T	I would. Then again I'm dumb.	04:00
UserID10T	Plus paid 190 for mine.	04:00
UserID10T	I HAD one at 150, but the deal fell through :(	04:01
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UserID10T	http://www.nokiausa.com/link?cid=EDITORIAL_184765	04:03
UserID10T	This is the Nokia brand charger.	04:03
UserID10T	It does NOT clearly state it is for the n800, but is the only one with the correct adapter.	04:03
bex	hmm i cannot find my car charger anyways	04:05
UserID10T	I see.	04:06
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whooper	quit "Boooooring!"	04:23
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UserID10T	Welcome everyone who joined in the last 5 mins.	04:49
UserID10T	Anyone before that, forget you.	04:49
Raytray	:(	04:49
UserID10T	LOL RAY	04:49
UserID10T	Ok ok, Ray too.	04:49
UserID10T	Welcome back Ray.	04:49
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Capn_Fish	johnx: You here?	04:59
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m-c	penguinbait here?	05:04
Proteous	I got my $8.00 bluetooth keyboard to pair with my n810	05:04
Proteous	wewt	05:04
m-c	waaaaaaht?	05:05
* m-c wants.		05:05
m-c	I just paid $80 for one.	05:05
Raytray	Holy crap where did you find that keyboard?	05:05
Proteous	http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=BT-KB01B-DEU-R&cat=KYB	05:05
Proteous	cheap-o referb german laybout	05:06
Proteous	layout	05:06
Proteous	although it's not that much different'	05:06
Proteous	going to try to hack it into a NES gamepad to play NES games on my n810	05:06
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Proteous	I was wrong, it's just $6.00 plus shipping	05:07
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Capn_Fish	Why don't you just use the N810's KB to play NES games?	05:08
Capn_Fish	Too cramped?	05:08
Proteous	the dpad sucks for games	05:09
\|penguinbait\|	I play quake2 with my logitech rublepad :)	05:09
Proteous	:)	05:09
Capn_Fish	I'd be inclined to agree. What about using like wasd?	05:09
\|penguinbait\|	usb cordless	05:09
Proteous	I am trying to get a gamepad that will fit in my pocket	05:09
\|penguinbait\|	usb?	05:10
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Proteous	the fun part is the project, not so much the result	05:10
Proteous	although that is an added bonus	05:10
\|penguinbait\|	I have a bgp100 bt gamepad, but it was responsive enough	05:11
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Proteous	wasn't?	05:11
\|penguinbait\|	hehe	05:12
\|penguinbait\|	uh yeah	05:12
\|penguinbait\|	doh	05:12
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m-c	\|penguinbait\|: Hey, thanks for posting that article on a-droid - I just got it working on my n800 - nice to see it	05:16
m-c	Proteous: Do you have that keyboard now, or did you just order it?	05:19
Proteous	I orderd it on sunday, I have it now, and successufly paired it with my n810	05:20
Proteous	now it's all take apart :P	05:20
m-c	so paired up no problemo ?	05:20
Proteous	seems the board is totaly small enough to fit in a NES controler	05:20
Proteous	m-c: there were no instructions, so I have to do some googling to figure out what to do	05:21
Proteous	but yeah, once I figured out what to do I didn't have a problem	05:21
* m-c suggests posting HOWTO to the ITT Forum. ;)		05:21
Proteous	probably a good idea	05:22
m-c	I am tempted to buy a stack of them, except that I already have this $80 apple one	05:22
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lcuk	gnite maemo	06:01
johnx	'night lcuk	06:02
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clijunkie	Hello all. I'm messing with my n810 and would like to know if there is a "hook"bto toggle the light from the cli, like you can with a thinkpad.	06:40
clijunkie	For my thinkpad I would use /proc/acpi/ibm/light	06:41
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jitu3485	Hi, on my system (ubuntu gusty) when i added vm.mmap_min_addr=4096, to install CHINOOK, it hanged and now refusing to boot	08:11
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jitu3485	how to resolve this?	08:11
qwerty12	Can you use single user/recovery mode? It's on the grub menu.	08:12
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jitu3485	qwerty12, i tried that but it is also not throwing me on prompt	08:14
qwerty12	Boot up the ubuntu install cd and mount the drive and edit the sysctl.conf and umount and reboot again.	08:15
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RST38h	qwerty: moo	08:21
qwerty12	baa, hi :)	08:21
jitu3485	qwerty12, thanks	08:23
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RST38h	is it normal that canola starts for longer than 1 minute on Diablo?	08:29
qwerty12	Yes, python is throwing a hissy fit about modules it cannot find.	08:29
RST38h	urgh :( any way to fix it?	08:30
qwerty12	Use the python from chinook extras :/	08:31
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qwerty12	If you use canola -vvv, you may be able to spot the modules and extract them manually instead.	08:31
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* RST38h is using python from chinook extras afaik		08:33
RST38h	Do I run canola -vvv once, from command line?	08:34
qwerty12	Yeah, you may want to pipe the output to a file to see the problem. Also pythonlauncher helps with canola quite a bit.	08:35
RST38h	1215063515.1733 DEBUG manager:114:get_classes() looking for classes with filter 'Model/Multitask'	08:36
RST38h	Are these lines the sign of a problem?	08:36
RST38h	It actually looks to be legitimate Canola attempts to look for plugins	08:37
qwerty12	Hmm,probably sounds like it. It won't be modules if you are using chinook python.	08:37
RST38h	Lemme try ptyhonlauncher then	08:38
jitu3485	qwerty12, i booted from live cd, mounted filesystem,changed file and rebooted but still system is not booting.	08:42
qwerty12	Are you sure that you haven't made any other change? Did you put vdso=0 in the sysctl as well?	08:43
jitu3485	qwerty12, yes and i did nothing aprt from that	08:45
jitu3485	:%s/aprt/apart	08:45
qwerty12	The vdso is the thing that is probably causing your problem. Another person here had a problem with vdso=0 in sysctl.	08:45
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RST38h	Hey-who-the-hell-changed-personal-launcher-icon?!? =)	08:46
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Navi	O_O	08:58
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Navi	you know	08:59
Navi	I haven't been getting update warnings	09:00
Navi	Ugh	09:01
Navi	that new icon is gross	09:01
Navi	Well, not totally gross	09:02
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Navi	The single thing the new one has over the old one is the dropshadow	09:02
RST38h	I definitely want the old icon back though	09:05
qwerty12	Extract it from the old deb on garage.	09:05
timelyx	heh	09:05
RST38h	can we have it as an option in the current deb? =)	09:06
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qwerty12	You could repack the deb and update the md5sum but I've got homework to do >.>	09:06
timelyx	i don't think it's in app-mgr	09:07
timelyx	it should be in some theme thing	09:07
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qwerty12	It's a custom icon provided by the app :)	09:07
timelyx	really?	09:07
qwerty12	Actually, I don't know with the latest version	09:07
timelyx	http://mxr.maemo.org/garage/source/hildon-app-mgr/	09:07
timelyx	i couldn't find it	09:07
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qwerty12	We were talking about the personal launcher :)	09:08
jitu3485	qwerty12, i removed vm.vsdo_enabled from /etc/sysctl.conf also, and system is booting smmothly now thanks	09:08
timelyx	sorry, all i saw was "update warnings" i assumed you meant the app update icon :)	09:08
qwerty12	:)	09:09
qwerty12	jitu3485, You can add vdso=0 to grub. Seems to work better for some people (just don't add it onto the default boot option, make a new boot entry first)	09:09
RST38h	Looks like memory usage is much higher in Maemo	09:10
RST38h	Modest and Browserd eat up a lot of memory, whatever timeless says	09:10
qwerty12	I disabled the modest daemon as I never use it and I can agree with you for browserd	09:11
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RST38h	qwerty: The problem is that we have to make timeless agree...	09:14
* qwerty12 gets the gun ready, agreed yet? :P		09:15
RST38h	yyeeaaaaa!	09:17
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bex	is there an about option on maemo? i could have sworn i saw it	09:23
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hrw	morning	09:24
hrw	guys: is there any text editor with hildon interface?	09:24
hrw	simple gedit like even	09:25
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qwerty12	leafpad was hildonised	09:25
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ds3	'	09:28
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hrw	qwerty12: but not in extras?	09:38
qwerty12	no	09:38
qwerty12	RST38h, I see what you mean about the icon :/	09:38
timelyx	RST38h: browserd shouldn't really cost significantly more than browser did in chinook	09:40
qwerty12	timelyx, mind pausing time for me?	09:43
timelyx	sorry, not yet implemented	09:43
qwerty12	:(	09:43
Jaffa	Mirbubgm akk	09:44
Jaffa	Morning, all even	09:44
qwerty12	Jaffa, aas Mirbubgm? !!!! dsfj jkaskads	09:45
qwerty12	Morning :)	09:45
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timelyx	http://www.woot.com/Blog/Archive.aspx?StartDate=3/2/2008	09:54
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eichi__	good morning	10:44
eichi__	if i boot from mmc i cant use the usb client mode without problem?	10:45
hrw	not for usb-storage mode	10:46
eichi__	okay, thats what i mean	10:46
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timelyx	andre__: so,... could we figure out a plan for garage in bugs.maemo?	11:37
timelyx	esp, i'd love to move browser-extras into bugs.maemo	11:38
timelyx	then a certain bug could just be moved :)	11:38
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disq	so who's coming to guadec this year?	11:41
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timelyx	i think it's basically figuring out a timeline for upgrading bugzilla to current	11:44
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eichi__	something like mount -o /mnt/initfs/ rw so remount initfs rw?	11:51
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florian	good morning	11:56
disq	morning	11:57
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__t	good moin	11:58
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florian	hi __t	12:07
__t	hi florian	12:07
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__t	florian: do you know about maemo developers arround berlin?	12:12
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florian	__t: rschuster (not here right now) does is located there iirc	12:14
florian	__t: define "around", since maemo is worldwide thingy Siegen might count as well ;)	12:14
__t	florian: arround as in "up for a beer in the evening" ;-) so it depends on you	12:15
florian	__t: heh, well might be a little bit far for a beer, but a good idea... I happen to be there sometimes.	12:17
__t	I guess in september you will come?	12:18
__t	florian: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008	12:20
florian	__t: quite likely, yes :)	12:20
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aquatix	hm, how actively is telepathy being worked on?	12:39
aquatix	packages for maemo are at least half a year old	12:39
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* lcuk will be parking liqbase in the garage tonight. gulp		13:07
X-Fade	lcuk: Great!	13:08
X-Fade	I know that is a big step for you, thanks for doing that!	13:08
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lcuk	its not there yet (i only decided on the drive in this morning). if some devs could post a few words in the iTT thread about their first time it might make me feel a bit better	13:10
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* lcuk gets back to work		13:14
* aquatix is watching lcuk's youtube movie		13:14
aquatix	looks great	13:14
aquatix	what exactly is it?	13:14
aquatix	a graphics lib?	13:14
aquatix	how cool, those drawings	13:15
aquatix	dang, should've had an n810 with this app years ago	13:16
crashanddie	lcuk, about their first time ?	13:16
aquatix	g	13:17
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crashanddie	what the hell is the midgard project ?	13:24
wiza	cms	13:27
pupnik	i like how lcuk's app handles the large graphics file and doesn't have problems scrolling through it	13:28
aquatix	yeah	13:30
aquatix	it's damn smooth	13:30
* aquatix eagerly awaits .deb		13:30
pupnik	didn't he post the binary a while back?	13:34
pupnik	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21259	13:34
pupnik	oh 'no deb yet'	13:34
hellwolf	How could I use bluetooth to access N800's camera remotely	13:36
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wazd	Lo there :)	13:36
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wazd	Does anybody knows, is there an ICQ fix for tablets? pidgin have updatet it's lib so on Desktop it works fine but I haven't heard about tablet version :(	13:37
minti_	hi hw can i use libsofia-tools ? can i use it to test sofsip application ?	13:38
aquatix	wazd: doesn't it work on your tablet anymore?	13:40
trickie	aquatix: they started blocking non-icq clients	13:40
aquatix	i know	13:40
trickie	or changed something in the proto	13:40
aquatix	but some older versions of libpurple still work	13:40
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aquatix	trickie: the latest libpurple sends the newest client version strings and such	13:41
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hrw	re	13:41
trickie	yeah i don't use it on the tablet... just saw people have been having issues	13:42
trickie	hrw: hi	13:42
wazd	aquatix: ICQ released some weird opdate 2 days ago, that bricked all side-clients (all except ICQ6 itself)	13:42
aquatix	wazd: jups, my pidgin doesn't work anymore indeed [don't have 2.4.3 yet], but bitlbee still works :)	13:43
wazd	Most have released urgent updates	13:43
pupnik	I banned ICQ client from my last workplace.	13:43
aquatix	and i read remarks about libpurple 2.1.2 or something still logging in	13:43
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aquatix	hence my question, as telepathy haze uses an older libpurple on maemo yet	13:44
wazd	Well, I would like to not use ICQ but my contacts are not sharing this point with me :)	13:44
aquatix	most of my contacts are msn...	13:44
aquatix	even more evil	13:44
wazd	I think Russia is the only country that still uses ICQ :)	13:45
minti_	hi hw can i use libsofia-tools ? can i use it to test sofsip application ?	13:46
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* GeneralAntilles is listening to the tllts from this morning.		14:04
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pupnik	the Quim interview?	14:07
GeneralAntilles	Yeah	14:08
X-Fade	Sound quality is a bit bad, but it is doable.	14:08
hrw	wazd: will omweather get option 'show city from gps as default'?	14:08
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, I might have found something amazing	14:09
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, I was poking you to find out whether this was your radio show. :P	14:09
crashanddie	ah, no lol	14:09
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crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, There seems to be a promotional offer from RyanAir. I'm on their website right now, flying from Stansted to Berlin, september 18 to 20, £20 (tax included, the flights are free, only tax)	14:10
hrw	crashanddie: nice price	14:10
* hrw has to pay for bus Szczecin<>Berlin		14:10
atul	My Xephyr is running and form scratchbox I did export display and I start dbus daemon but in Xephyr it wont display anythig why ?	14:11
crashanddie	atul, my balls ain't made of crystal, sorry	14:11
crashanddie	atul, mind posting some error messages, or the output of af-sb-init.sh start	14:12
atul	"/usr/bin/af-sb-init.sh: line 1: export: `/usr/bin/dbus-daemon:': not a valid identifie"	14:12
atul	this Error message I got	14:12
crashanddie	atul, dbus-daemon --system	14:13
atul	crashanddie: so what to do ? to fix this problem ? Any Idea ? this is reported but in maemo	14:14
crashanddie	atul, dbus-daemon --system	14:14
lardman	What's the quickest way of doing an array comparison in C?	14:17
zap	memcmp	14:17
crashanddie	only works if it's the same type though	14:17
lardman	ah yes, it is. Good stuff	14:17
zap	provided your array doesnt have holes	14:17
* hrw sent first not polite help mail to maemo-devs..		14:18
lardman	nah, will be same size & type	14:18
* lardman awaits hrw's impolite help mail with baited breath :)		14:18
zap	if array elements are 3 bytes. it wont work	14:18
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hrw	lardman: it is not so hard one	14:18
lardman	zap: how do you mean?	14:19
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hrw	lardman: padding to 4bytes	14:19
lcuk	how do i apply for tickets - thers no mail address or site on the sponsorship thingy	14:19
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X-Fade	lcuk: We are testing it now, will be available today..	14:20
lardman	Ah ok, not an issue, the data will be chars	14:20
lcuk	:) thx x-fade	14:20
* lcuk is still shitting bricks		14:20
zap	for chars memcmp is always the best	14:20
aquatix	lcuk: why?	14:20
aquatix	because you're putting a first version of something awesome online? ;)	14:21
lcuk	well if you had seen me last time i stood up in front of people you would know, but what i learnt after was why im trying again	14:21
lardman	zap: cheers (am converting MATLAB code to C)	14:21
lcuk	aquatix, its everything :) ty for compliment	14:22
florian	lardman: maybe start with converting matlab to octave ;)	14:23
zap	:)	14:23
lardman	florian: yeah, that's not enough of a challenge though :)	14:23
aquatix	lcuk: seriously looking forward to playing with it	14:24
aquatix	lcuk: i always get sahara-mouthed when in front of people too ;)	14:24
lardman	hrw: Must be quite some lag on the list, I've still not seen your email	14:26
lardman	or lag on my email server of course	14:26
wiza	lardman: so how is the dsp stuff for a2dp coming? =)	14:26
lardman	wiza: oh yeah, I've just finished the tweaks, need to compile and see if it runs	14:26
lardman	wiza: It was running, but too slowly, so I've changed the central (called lots of times) fn. to use DSP instriniscs and Q15 arithmetic	14:27
hrw	lardman: nevermind	14:28
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wiza	lardman: I recall that it was slow	14:29
lardman	wiza: I'll compile it at lunch time and push the changes, then I imagine there'll be some fixing to do before it actually works	14:29
wiza	no hurry :D	14:31
lardman	wiza: I'd like to get it finished and get on with other things :)	14:32
wiza	:p	14:33
RST38h	yawn	14:35
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johnx	so much cool software getting released these days :)	14:35
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RST38h	johnx: Like Modest?	14:35
johnx	like lardman's sbc-on-dsp and lcuk's liqbase	14:36
aquatix	anybody knows whether telepathy is frequently updated? the latest maemo packages are over 6 months old	14:36
* aquatix has a buglet in modest btw		14:36
RST38h	johnx: They finally released? =)!!!	14:36
hrw	aquatix: as they are in system image they will probably not be updated	14:36
aquatix	every time i open the window, the left list is a bit wider	14:36
johnx	"getting released" as in "in the process" :)	14:37
RST38h	ah	14:37
aquatix	hrw: hm, i installed collabora haze	14:37
crashanddie	say guys	14:37
RST38h	getting being released then =)	14:37
lardman	yeah, WIP is more like it :)	14:37
* johnx installed the modest beta for chinook		14:37
crashanddie	who should I talk to if I want to point out a cheap flight service ? (for Maemo Summit)	14:37
johnx	hasn't screwed up on me yet	14:37
RST38h	crash: A PR company?	14:37
aquatix	johnx: on diablo?	14:38
johnx	yeah	14:38
RST38h	maybe this is what I have to do...	14:38
aquatix	might try that too	14:38
crashanddie	RST38h, eh ?	14:38
johnx	I had to let it overwrite a file as the packaging is done differently	14:38
GeneralAntilles	Hopefully the beta repo will be updated for Diablo soon.	14:38
johnx	and don't come crying to me if it eats all your mail or something	14:38
* aquatix uses imaps		14:39
aquatix	and used the beta on chinook	14:39
johnx	me too, just sayin :)	14:39
aquatix	heh, fair enough	14:39
johnx	also, used a2dp all day today in canola	14:39
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johnx	had maybe about 10 skips in 2 hours	14:39
lardman	johnx: have you got it working again for you?	14:39
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johnx	yeah	14:40
lardman	what was the problem?	14:40
johnx	it was the same error you posted to maemo-developers	14:40
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johnx	I don't know :/	14:40
lardman	ah ok	14:40
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johnx	and it went away after a power cycle on my headphones and tablet	14:40
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lardman	reboot :)	14:40
johnx	sometimes my headphones do tend to crash O_o	14:40
crashanddie	sorry	14:40
crashanddie	promise, I'll ask 'em to stop	14:40
johnx	you crashed my headphones?	14:40
aquatix	GeneralAntilles: the modest one?	14:41
aquatix	GeneralAntilles: or for telepathy?	14:41
GeneralAntilles	Yes	14:41
GeneralAntilles	er, Modest	14:41
aquatix	kk	14:41
GeneralAntilles	You guys might try the svn for Modest	14:41
GeneralAntilles	Supposedly a lot has been at least partially fixed.	14:41
johnx	ah, that's a good idea	14:41
aquatix	GeneralAntilles: you recommended collabora to me right?	14:41
aquatix	GeneralAntilles: cool	14:41
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, I don't follow Telepathy at all, though.	14:41
aquatix	ok	14:41
aquatix	was wondering when they where going to update again	14:42
GeneralAntilles	Robot101, if anybody, would be the one to ask.	14:42
aquatix	a diablo modest weekly would be cool indeed :)	14:42
aquatix	Robot101: ping ;)	14:42
* RST38h wonders when Pidgin is going to get upgraded...		14:42
aquatix	[sorry for nagging]	14:42
Robot101	aquatix: hola	14:43
GeneralAntilles	Somebody who sucks less than Navi and qwerty12 needs to get the MicroB svn compiled.	14:43
johnx	good workout for scratchbox	14:43
johnx	as soon as I find libosso-abook-dev	14:43
aquatix	Robot101: i was wondering whether telepathy receives updates	14:43
aquatix	GeneralAntilles: g	14:43
RST38h	GA: BTW, I did thorough checking of browserd yesterday	14:43
aquatix	GeneralAntilles: is that with newer gecko btw?	14:44
Robot101	aquatix: yes, there's a lot of development, but do you specifically mean packages for diablo :)	14:44
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aquatix	Robot101: yups ;)	14:44
RST38h	GA: Looks like it is eating6-7MB of RAM when it is resident	14:44
aquatix	Robot101: i have it installed, but those are from december last year iirc	14:44
Robot101	aquatix: we need to check with nokia and arrange to do the builds for diablo	14:44
aquatix	ah, k	14:44
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, that's about what I was seeing with htop.	14:45
aquatix	btw, my jabber accounts stopped working when i installed collabora stuff	14:45
aquatix	they won't connect	14:45
aquatix	which is weird, as they worked fine, and also with the rtcomm beta i had in chinook	14:45
RST38h	GA: Same here (with htop)	14:45
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RST38h	About the same amount is taken by resident Modest. I am not sure if it is actually doing something or just hanging there though.	14:46
Robot101	aquatix: stopped working? that's very weird	14:46
Robot101	aquatix: can you get a log?	14:46
RST38h	Turned off background mail checks but Modest is still in memory	14:46
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aquatix	Robot101: lets see...	14:46
Robot101	aquatix: http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Debugging has some information	14:47
Robot101	aquatix: the gabble debug log is the most interesting	14:47
Robot101	(you can sign off, run LM_DEBUG=xxx GABBLE_DEBUG=xx GABBLE_PERSIST=... from xterm, then see what gabble says when you try to sign in)	14:48
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aquatix	Robot101: hm, odd, some of them work, some don't	14:58
aquatix	i thought all didn't work	14:58
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aquatix	gtalk one works, but i have an account on hyves.org that doesn't	14:59
aquatix	worked with chinook and rtcomm beta	14:59
aquatix	but it doesn't work in pidgin too	14:59
aquatix	so it's weird anyway	14:59
Robot101	maybe it just broke at the same time?	14:59
aquatix	not sure, but it worked in rtcomm beta while it didn't in pidgin at the same time	15:00
* aquatix is a bit confused now		15:00
Robot101	do they have broken SRV records?	15:00
aquatix	does collabora haze use libpurple for xmpp?	15:00
aquatix	how do i check?	15:00
Robot101	it should use gabble for XMPP	15:00
aquatix	it does	15:01
aquatix	i just wasn't sure what gabble was :)	15:01
hrw	guys - who will be on guadec?	15:01
aquatix	Server uses XEP-0078 (jabber iq auth) instead of SASL	15:01
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aquatix	connection_auth_cb: failed	15:01
aquatix	hm	15:01
aquatix	i have the right pw and stuff	15:02
Robot101	oh, yeah. if the server claims to do XMPP 1.0, and doesn't actually, then a) it sucks and b) diablo's version of loudmouth doesn't have a workaround for that flavour of breakage	15:02
aquatix	ah :)	15:03
aquatix	likely it sucks indeed	15:03
aquatix	knowing that network	15:03
* aquatix tries with amessage.info		15:03
aquatix	which has troubles with pidgin too	15:03
aquatix	oh cool, that one works on my n810 even though it talks about the ssl certificate having a mismatching name	15:05
aquatix	hm, it keeps reconnecting	15:07
* aquatix notes he's spamming the chan a bit		15:07
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hrw	lunch time	15:13
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GeneralAntilles	Guess we need Flash 10 on Maemo for v4l2	15:21
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inz	aquatix, telepaty-haze does use libpurple, gabble uses libloudmouth	15:29
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mgedmin	speaking about conferences, anyone coming to EuroPython?	15:30
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aquatix	inz: check	15:31
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crashanddie	anyone know if there's gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ported to the maemo platform ?	15:33
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Ave	crashanddie: afaicr it is available	15:37
lardman	does that include vorbis?	15:37
lardman	if so, it just compiles, no porting needed	15:37
crashanddie	yeah well, by porting I mean compiled/packaged	15:37
lardman	aargh, bt headset battery is flat	15:38
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Ave	gstreamer0.10-plugins-base-ogg - Collection of GStreamer plugins for OGG	15:41
Ave	gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-ivorbis - GStreamer plugin for Tremor	15:41
Ave	theres multiple vorbis-libraries and I don't know whats different between them	15:42
Ave	and none currently use dsp like the mp3-side does	15:43
lardman	hmm, on the sbc front, the output is different, which might be a loss in precision, but more likely indicates a mistake	15:43
lardman	headphones are charging, I'll see if I can head anything this evening	15:43
lardman	s/head/hear	15:43
kulve	Ave: no dsp support for ogg	15:45
Ave	kulve: ever?	15:45
lardman	kulve: unless someone wants to help debug a buffer problem that is	15:45
Ave	someone from here was digging the dsp stuff as is	15:45
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lardman	Ave: me	15:46
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Ave	gotcha :P	15:47
lardman	and others including kulve	15:47
lardman	Ave: Take a look at the dsp-tremor garage project mailing list	15:47
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Ave	k	15:49
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lardman	hmm, headphones came to life for a minute, just got a burst of noise, so some problem in my tweaks :)	15:51
crashanddie	packages.debian.org down for anyone else ?	15:53
wiza	:p	15:53
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lardman	please feel free to take a look and tell me if you see anything wrong: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/mk3/dsp/?root=dsp-sbc	15:53
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, yes.	15:54
Ave	lardman: seems quite hairy to say the least	15:55
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lardman	Ave: I'm sure the error will be simple enough, it's got to be somewhere in the _sbc_analyze_eight()/_sbc_analyze_four() fns or the tables of constants	15:56
Ave	are we talking about integer overflow somewhere or what kind of problem	15:59
lardman	Could be integer overflow, I also am worried about the matrix dimensions	15:59
lardman	whether I've placed the dimensions the right way round	15:59
lardman	2D arrays are an array of pointers to 1D arrays?	16:00
lardman	in which case, I wonder if the 2D matrices I've created get padded; I read into them manually (as 1D arrays)	16:00
lardman	or are 2D arrays actually just allocated as array(1st_dim_size*2nd_dim_size)?	16:01
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* lardman 's pocket C reference doens't have enough detail		16:04
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mgedmin	crashanddie: http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/packages.debian.org	16:04
mgedmin	lardman: 2D arrays are allocated in a single contiguous block	16:05
lardman	Actually I could change the code easily to use 2d array references	16:05
lardman	mgedmin: ah cool, thanks	16:05
mgedmin	in row-major form, I think it's called	16:05
lardman	which array elements are contiguous? the last dimension?	16:05
mgedmin	yes	16:05
crashanddie	mgedmin, 502 Server Error	16:06
crashanddie	the irony	16:06
lardman	ok, will have to check, that's what I had thought, but I may have still made a mistake	16:06
mgedmin	array[row][col] = (&array + row row_width + col)	16:06
lardman	mgedmin: thanks	16:07
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hrw	lardman: going to guadec?	16:11
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lardman	hrw: no, am pretty busy; away to Chicago later in the month	16:14
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lcuk	hrw, does openmoko have an x11 driver (and xv library?)	16:18
hrw	lcuk: yes - it is x11 based still	16:19
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lcuk	does the hardware support YUV format? ;)	16:19
* lcuk could do with getting his head into it and having a looksee		16:20
lcuk	lardman, arrays are normall [ y * XMax + x ] so for a 800480 grid you do Y800+x	16:21
lardman	hmm, so the first dimension is contiguous then?	16:21
* GeneralAntilles should unsubscribe from -users already.		16:22
lardman	GeneralAntilles: I've got it set to digest and it goes straight to storage	16:22
GeneralAntilles	It's worse than itT	16:22
lardman	lcuk: heading back to work, but I'll see what you write in the meantime	16:23
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lcuk	array[y][x] normally if i remember rightly, but i havent used that format for years, i just allocate a single array and do the indexing like i said originally	16:24
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lcuk	grrr @ his quick exits ;)	16:24
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lcuk	mgedmin, did we just say the same thing (with yours first)	16:25
GeneralAntilles	There's just so much bad advice flying around on -users that I can't help but step in. <_<	16:25
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lcuk	GeneralAntilles, what you mean	16:27
* lcuk tries to stay out of the way of mailing lists and doesnt know where most are		16:28
GeneralAntilles	-users has sort of the same retarded tone as itT, but with very few intelligent voices to ameliorate the stupidity.	16:28
GeneralAntilles	maemo-users	16:28
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lcuk	http://slashdot.org/~LiquidCoooled/journal/206313	16:31
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pupnik	yaay	16:32
GeneralAntilles	Woo, lower /. uid than lcuk. :P	16:33
lcuk	why where are you gen?	16:34
GeneralAntilles	500k something	16:34
GeneralAntilles	I don't ever post, though.	16:34
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lardman	re	16:35
wiza	little under 600k on /. :D	16:35
lcuk	but ive wrote a shed load more comments than you :P	16:35
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lcuk	and for the first time in about 5 years have mod points	16:36
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GeneralAntilles	I get mod points all the time, don't use them much	16:36
RST38h	Slashdot has ALSO got a blog engine?!?	16:36
lcuk	its had the zoo for ages	16:36
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glass	RST38h: the journal thing has been in there for ages.. like 8 years or so	16:37
RST38h	Oh, the horror...	16:37
lcuk	they can be submitted as articles as well if required. :) visibility and good things for the nokia tablets can only be a good thing	16:37
Veggen	I was only 1855 registrations too late to get a 4 digit slashdot uid.	16:37
lcuk	i was only 600000 too late	16:37
glass	i stopped reading/commenting at slashdot regularly at some point years and years ago	16:38
* lcuk curses missing the boat		16:38
glass	got some 2500comments / excellent karma	16:38
lcuk	i stopped regularly posting sometime in december, i wonder why	16:38
glass	some fans too! :)	16:38
* lcuk strokes his 810		16:38
Veggen	(1856, infact, since my uid is 11855)	16:38
RST38h	lcuk <--- betrayed slashdot for itt!	16:38
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lcuk	LiquidCoooled's Latest 24 of 4672 Comments	16:38
Andy80	hi all	16:39
glass	some 40 fans to be exact, "yay"	16:39
RST38h	Slashdot is filled with really dull geek people though. Switched to TheRegister as my news source years ago.	16:39
Andy80	has Maemo-pc-connectivity been substituted by the "USB Networking" applet?	16:39
Veggen	I don't comment very often, tho, as I have only 62 comments in total :)	16:39
Veggen	(but excellent karma, so obviously people like it when I comment)	16:40
glass	it's pretty easy to learn to do comments that get modded +5	16:40
lcuk	its an artform to get +5 troll though :)	16:40
* hendry wonders why there isn't any diablo liveCDs. takes AGES to setup an SDK currently... :(		16:40
glass	hah yeah	16:40
RST38h	lcuk: Not really, those guys luck any sense of humor	16:41
lcuk	hendry, ive seen one linux vmware image, but it was console only i think	16:41
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RST38h	s/luck/lack	16:41
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lcuk	anyway, back later, thought it was time to explain where the lc comes from :)	16:41
lcuk	plenty of folks have asked and assumed it was a typo, but i live in the uk	16:42
RST38h	will you change it if you move though?	16:42
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lcuk	NEVER!	16:44
lcuk	ive gotten used to it	16:44
lcuk	damn, im closing vnc from home end, back at 6	16:44
aquatix	besides, lcnl isn't pronouncable ;)	16:44
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aquatix	[or aren't you moving here ;)]	16:45
aquatix	lcuk: ok, cya	16:45
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RST38h	aquatix: To Niue you mean?	16:47
andre__	timelyx, figuring out a plan for garage in bugs.maemo does not make sense if nearly no developer wants to move to bugs.maemo	16:48
andre__	at least so far the feedback was... not much	16:48
GeneralAntilles	andre__, start by poking some of them directly?	16:48
aquatix	RST38h: niwha? .nl = the netherlands	16:48
RST38h	*** aquatix is n=aquatix@higgs.soleus.nu <===	16:48
aquatix	ah	16:48
RST38h	hehe	16:49
aquatix	don't mind that hostname :)	16:49
andre__	heh... some is good... well, for me it's clear that it's up to them to decide, and not me actively pushing it	16:49
aquatix	it's even hosted here in .nl	16:49
GeneralAntilles	I would actively push it.	16:49
GeneralAntilles	I think the vast majority of people are apathetic	16:49
RST38h	aquatix: aka Rock of Polinesia	16:49
GeneralAntilles	But the net result for the community will be a very positive one	16:49
GeneralAntilles	and it's something I'd like to see move forward.	16:49
andre__	hmm, understand	16:50
aquatix	RST38h: yeah, i know it	16:50
GeneralAntilles	andre__, I think some others may be in a sort of "where's the beef?" state	16:50
GeneralAntilles	So I wouldn't take the lack of response too negatively.	16:50
GeneralAntilles	A good step would probably be to figure out the dozen or so top projects in the garage tracker and talk to their developers directly.	16:51
GeneralAntilles	I'm sure a lot of them don't follow itT	16:51
GeneralAntilles	some may not follow -developers, and it's easy to lose a thread in there.	16:52
andre__	hmm, okay...	16:52
sp3001	what he manes it's easy to get naked in -developers.	16:52
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sp3001	...or something else.	16:52
sp3001	means even.	16:53
andre__	not really :)	16:53
GeneralAntilles	s/thread/threads/	16:53
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: some may not follow -developers, and it's easy to lose a threads in there.	16:53
RST38h	GA: Some may not even want to have a bugtracker	16:53
andre__	reminds me of postgres. unbelievable	16:53
RST38h	GA: 'Cause it implies extra time needed to manage bug records	16:53
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, of course, which is why the bugzilla use should be opt-in.	16:53
RST38h	no argument there	16:54
RST38h	Let us put it this way: you may want to start by persuading projects that already HAVE bugtrackers to move to bugs.maemo.org	16:54
GeneralAntilles	Actually, I think all gforge features should be opt-in for new projects.	16:54
RST38h	And of course this implies having to have a painless way to migrate bug reports	16:55
andre__	GeneralAntilles, I wonder whether it's possible to deactivate the GForge bug tracker at all	16:55
GeneralAntilles	Well, we need a system in place at bugzilla for handling garage bug tracking first.	16:55
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GeneralAntilles	andre__, I think so, but dunno.	16:55
andre__	yes, the painless migration way is missing	16:55
RST38h	Shouldn't be difficult, pretty much a specialized PERL or Python script	16:55
andre__	no, garage bugs should be cleaned up before importing them to bugs.maemo	16:55
andre__	the modest guys made this in a very easy (and maybe a bit rude) way: closing all tickets in garage, and asking to report to bugs.maemo if it still exists	16:56
GeneralAntilles	Definitely	16:56
GeneralAntilles	Oh, is the Modest tracker finally done for?	16:56
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mgedmin	yes	16:57
andre__	yupp	16:57
mgedmin	and they migrated old bugs using the CADT model	16:57
andre__	harhar	16:57
GeneralAntilles	Personally, I'd be happy to volunteer to help triage and migrate bugs from tracker to bugzilla.	16:57
RST38h	GA: That is a LOT of bugs	16:58
GeneralAntilles	Not really	16:58
GeneralAntilles	Most of them are 770 backport bugs	16:58
RST38h	Oh...	16:58
GeneralAntilles	and I'm talking volunteering on a project-by-project basis.	16:58
RST38h	Those may go, right?	16:58
GeneralAntilles	If a dev wants help migrating, I'll volunteer. ;0	16:58
GeneralAntilles	s/0/)/	16:58
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: If a dev wants help migrating, I'll volunteer. ;)	16:58
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andre__	hmm. lots of things to discuss next week with Karsten wehen we both meet physically at guadec... sigh :)	17:00
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GeneralAntilles	Barring any particularly vocal objection from any of the garage devs, a certain amount of "what's good for the community" should be factored into the decision to push the bugzilla move, and bugzilla is definitely that. ;)	17:03
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hendry	i have diablo scratchbox 1 going. i'm unsure how to share library headers with the host system. any clues? symlinking into /scratchbox/host_shared doesn't work	17:07
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zuh	hendry: Bind-mounting is the way, symlinks to outside world don't work within sb due to chrooting and other black magic	17:11
GeneralAntilles	Did Maemo Mapper make it into Diablo Extras yet?	17:12
hrw	heh.. I am unable to draw few circles with same center point..	17:12
hendry	zuh: can you give me an example of a bind mount?	17:12
zuh	mount -o bind /mydir /someotherdir	17:13
zuh	after that mydir == someotherdir (wrt contents)	17:13
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hendry	zuh: you do this outside the scratchbox/chroot right? can you give an example mounting host's /usr/lib/java	17:17
zuh	yes, outside.	17:18
zuh	So you want to mount something under your target?	17:18
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zuh	mkdir /scratchbox/users/whatever/targets/770/usr/lib/java ; sudo mount -o bind /usr/lib/java /scratchbox/users/whatever/targets/770/usr/lib/java	17:20
zuh	eh, 770 == the name of the scratchbox target	17:20
hendry	and to preserve these mounts, you put them in fstab?	17:21
zuh	for example, yes	17:21
zuh	I have lines like '/mnt/storage/home /home none defaults,bind 0 0' there	17:22
hendry	zuh: kiittos	17:22
zuh	np	17:22
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GeneralAntilles	Great picture: http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/03/cops-adopt-sms-tip-lines-to-help-fight-crime-find-out-where-the/	17:28
aquatix	:)	17:28
* crashanddie high 5's qwerty12		17:28
* qwerty12 returns the high 5 :)		17:29
pupnik	http://new.music.yahoo.com/videos/MichaelPenn/Long-Way-Down-Look-What-The-Cat-Drug-In--2162287 love this song so much - and the Brothers Quay video to it	17:29
pekuja	"drug"? isn't the proper past tense of "drag" "dragged"?	17:32
pekuja	I had to wonder for a while what that sentence meant	17:32
pekuja	"is the cat taking drugs? what does this mean?"	17:32
pupnik	i dunno	17:32
qwerty12	Meh, if my cat brought in weed, I'd buy a shitload of cat treats for him.	17:33
pupnik	hahaha	17:33
pupnik	i think it's poetic license - drug in sounds better	17:33
GeneralAntilles	http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/drug#Verb_2	17:33
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GeneralAntilles	It's US usage.	17:33
pupnik	achaa	17:34
qwerty12	Actually in my language, achaa roughly translates to ahh, I see :)	17:34
pupnik	jawohl	17:35
qwerty12	Maybe not that one :P	17:35
qwerty12	I have 2 hours before I get shouted at :P. May as well release the kernel with fixed n800 touchscreen in android in that time.	17:36
pupnik	there's a Brothers Quay dvd collection that's quite um.. well... appropriate for watching with a high fever	17:36
pekuja	cool	17:36
pekuja	how's android today? is it actually usable for stuff?	17:37
pekuja	there are no devices shipping with it yet, correct?	17:37
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qwerty12	The version on tablets is quite an old one (m3), the latest runs but due to the suckiness of the shitty epson lcd controller, it doesn't run that great.	17:37
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m-c	qwerty12: I was very happy to get to see android, thank ye!	17:40
pupnik	eh, what's it doing, fullscreen refreshes for no reason?	17:40
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qwerty12	m-c, it's penguinbait's work too :)	17:41
qwerty12	pupnik, something like that. the epson controller doesn't support page flipping, something like that	17:41
hendry	i don't understand DIABLO_X86. why would you want to build under DIABLO_x86? why not just use the host environment?	17:41
qwerty12	You don't build. It's for testing.	17:41
hendry	qwerty12: how so?	17:42
pupnik	yeah but.. why not test the arm build itself	17:42
qwerty12	hendry, For example, you can't use dsptasks under diablo_armel	17:42
pupnik	oh there's some debugging you can do under x86 i think, if you're hardcore in that	17:42
pupnik	achaa	17:42
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hrw	bye	17:48
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crashanddie	hrw\|gone, cheers mate	17:50
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Talus_n810	greetings	17:53
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GNUton	Hi there	17:57
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crashanddie	Hey	18:00
crashanddie	first time I have an update warning	18:00
crashanddie	sweet	18:00
Talus_n810	:)	18:00
Talus_n810	anyone here developing ?	18:01
crashanddie	yup	18:01
qwerty12	developing what?	18:01
crashanddie	quite a few in fact :)	18:01
Talus_n810	cool	18:01
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, update all is bliss	18:01
crashanddie	ah, no, sorry	18:02
crashanddie	I don't develop cool	18:02
Talus_n810	i'm starting with the toturials	18:02
crashanddie	Talus_n810, are you a programmer ?	18:02
crashanddie	Talus_n810, or just starting out ?	18:02
Talus_n810	yes	18:02
Talus_n810	i'm a programmer	18:02
crashanddie	ok :)	18:02
Talus_n810	just new to maemo stuff	18:03
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* qwerty12 is somewhat halfway. I can't program but I wrote a quick program in python and I hack around with the kernel a bit. So I dunno what I am :P		18:03
crashanddie	a hacker ?	18:03
Talus_n810	hehe	18:03
crashanddie	just not a code guru	18:03
qwerty12	crashanddie, yeah :). I've done so much stuff to my N800, heh :D	18:03
qwerty12	(and paid the reflashing price >.<)	18:04
Talus_n810	i just have this n810 2 days	18:04
crashanddie	Talus_n810, updated to diablo ?	18:04
Talus_n810	yep	18:04
crashanddie	ok :)	18:04
Talus_n810	up and running	18:04
Talus_n810	i'll be developing m-health system into the n810	18:05
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eichi__	is there somethink like a "repo-rss" ?	18:07
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GeneralAntilles	andre__, I wonder if it'd be worth putting together a pilot in order to pique some interest.	18:23
pekuja	dunno if caffeine has destroyed any	18:23
qwerty12	Sniff, No one with N810 and android?	18:23
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qwerty12	(No pun intended)	18:23
Talus_n810	that would be nice	18:23
RST38h	pekuja: "legal" amphetamines have, though	18:23
crashanddie	I hardly consider myself a "user". I'd just say I'm someone who knows about it, I'm educated in it, educated enough so that I could make an educated decision.	18:24
crashanddie	And to be honest, I've seen way more lives destroyed because of alcohol than weed, or any other kind of drugs	18:24
lardman	sounds like me a C++	18:24
lardman	s/a/and	18:24
crashanddie	lardman, hahahahaha	18:25
Talus_n810	:)	18:26
crashanddie	btw, topic should be updated, we're hardly July 1st anymore	18:26
crashanddie	and that, no matter what timezone :P	18:26
GeneralAntilles	dneary's job	18:27
GeneralAntilles	Anybody see pagerate and pageview in Extras?	18:27
qwerty12	No, what does it do?	18:27
qwerty12	Oh wait.	18:27
qwerty12	Doh.	18:28
GeneralAntilles	Dunno	18:28
GeneralAntilles	Installing now.	18:28
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* RST38h seen them		18:29
GeneralAntilles	Interesting	18:31
andre__	GeneralAntilles, it can never hurt :)	18:31
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GeneralAntilles	andre__, any Nokia-vetting involved with that?	18:32
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andre__	how do you mean?	18:33
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GeneralAntilles	Is a pilot program something that's just a technical issue, or is there Nokia approval involved?	18:33
andre__	err.... ok. explain first what exactly you understand under "pilot program" then :)	18:34
GeneralAntilles	Pick a garage project, and set up a section in bugzilla for it.	18:34
GeneralAntilles	So, let's take extra-cauldron, what needs doing to get that into bugzilla?	18:34
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andre__	well, if the devs want to move away from garage, okay. but we also need to think about component structure, and default assignee policy and so on	18:35
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GeneralAntilles	and, by pilot, I mean a test program with a single garage project to show developers how it might work.	18:36
andre__	you see,i'm not yet that totally motivated yet as long as there's stuff to work out :)	18:37
andre__	modest? :-D	18:37
GeneralAntilles	Hehe, too late.	18:37
GeneralAntilles	and that's shipped on-device	18:37
GeneralAntilles	so it's not a Garage project, really. :P	18:37
andre__	it was two months ago :)	18:37
GeneralAntilles	Still not quite the same, though.	18:38
GeneralAntilles	As it's a Nokia project.	18:38
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andre__	hmm, right	18:38
andre__	another issue is that it makes it harder for me to do statistics and reports, because nokia of course wants to differentiate maemo bug data between "core products" (own responsibility) and community ones	18:39
andre__	latter one is really something that Karsten will comment on, that's more his area	18:39
GeneralAntilles	Do the classifications timeless mentioned help with that?	18:40
crashanddie	Well, I'm going to work out a bit, then shower, and then workshop night, see ya later guys	18:40
andre__	hmm, a bit	18:40
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GeneralAntilles	Later, crashanddie.	18:41
GeneralAntilles	Why's guenther failing so much at idling these days? :P	18:41
andre__	hehe	18:42
andre__	students...	18:42
andre__	i'm also going to be away in half an hour :)	18:42
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Talus_n810	anyone here had problems with g_ether driver in ubuntu?	18:43
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GeneralAntilles	Anyway, I know you were looking for more response before pushing a wiki task, but mind if I go ahead and do that?	18:44
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andre__	GeneralAntilles, go ahead!	18:45
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andre__	as long as you explicitly mention that it's work and thoughts in progress, i'd owe you a beer at maemo summit for doing this :)	18:46
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GeneralAntilles	;)	18:46
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* andre__ also tries to repair a violin in real life, beside trying to catch up with irc conversations :-D		18:47
GeneralAntilles	Violin repair?	18:48
GeneralAntilles	That sounds difficult	18:48
wazd	patching kernel sounds the same xD	18:48
andre__	yeah, thought today of bringing it to a professional, but then i thought: hmm, why not try first :)	18:48
RST38h	A violin cannot be backed up	18:48
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RST38h	Or versioned, for this matter	18:49
andre__	hehe	18:49
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GeneralAntilles	I'm with RST38h here. :P	18:49
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wazd	pity :)	18:49
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andre__	hah! i can still remove my version if it does not work and let a professional recompile the violin :-P	18:50
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RST38h	The destruction process is way more satisfying than rm -rfing it...	18:55
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andre__	heh	18:58
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GeneralAntilles	Hrm, what should I call this? "Task:Bugzilla and Garage" or "Task:Community bug tracking in Bugzilla"? Or any other suggestions?	19:03
GeneralAntilles	or maybe "Task:Garage bug tracking in Bugzilla"	19:04
andre__	Moving from Garage tracker to Bugzilla?	19:06
andre__	hmm	19:06
andre__	"Task:Garage bug tracking in Bugzilla" also sounds good	19:06
andre__	and my violin works. whoot. i need to blog :-)	19:06
GeneralAntilles	moar bloging!	19:06
* GeneralAntilles cracks the whip.		19:07
GeneralAntilles	Going with Garage bug tracking in Bugzilla	19:07
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Talus_n810	cheers mates, i'll be back later	19:14
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GeneralAntilles	Alright, it's started: https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Garage_bug_tracking_in_Bugzilla will flesh out some details and issues later.	19:26
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timeless	ok, i think one thing you'll need/want is to upgrade bugzilla	19:31
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timeless	sadly, my computer is busy watering the weeds, so i can't type particularly quickly :(	19:32
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timeless	actually, i'm wrong	19:34
timeless	classifications are available	19:34
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timeless	GeneralAntilles: would you like to see this?	19:35
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crashanddie	ok	20:01
crashanddie	well	20:01
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crashanddie	bleh	20:01
* crashanddie is tired		20:01
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eichi__	is there something like a rss file for the maemo repo?	20:12
crashanddie	laterz !	20:13
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johnx	eichi__, that's a good question actually. I think the answer is no, but a script to generate an rss feed from a releases file would be neat	20:15
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johnx	muahaha...my compiles will expand to take over any machine I have a shell on :D	20:19
inz	eichi, johnx, I think there is one, that was just transferred to rm_you, dunno if he's got it up yet tho	20:20
johnx	aaah, right, the pack rat feed aggregator	20:20
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johnx	I didn't know it could generate an RSS feed though	20:20
* johnx searches the logs		20:20
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ion_cu_vaca	hi all	20:33
ion_cu_vaca	question about /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/cal_mac_address	20:33
ion_cu_vaca	if I replace the mac value in cal_mac_address with $(cat /home/user/MyDocs/mac.txt)	20:34
ion_cu_vaca	and have a mac address in mac.txt, will that brick my n800 or that should work fine?	20:35
johnx	probably won't brick it	20:35
johnx	you probably just want to change it early at boot though	20:36
johnx	or do you want to change it constantly?	20:36
ion_cu_vaca	yes, and I'm changing (same way) in /etc/init.d/rcS	20:36
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ion_cu_vaca	ifconfig wlan0 down hw ether $(cat /home/user/MyDocs/mac.txt)	20:37
ion_cu_vaca	ifconfig wlan0 up	20:37
ion_cu_vaca	and that works	20:37
ion_cu_vaca	but in cal_mac_address I still have the mac unchanged	20:37
ion_cu_vaca	ok, I'll try it :-)	20:39
johnx	also, echoing to that file seems to make my MAC address 30:30:3A:30:30:3A	20:39
johnx	and I lose my connection to my AP of course too	20:39
johnx	I'm about 99% sure that playing around with /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/cal_mac_address won't do anything permanent	20:40
johnx	ideally you'd want to change it in the hidden NAND partition	20:40
johnx	I think someone managed to get enough access to recover lost lock codes, so maybe that's a place to start	20:40
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tank-man	better not use my mac address	20:41
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johnx	what is it? 00:00:DE:AD:BE:EF ?	20:41
ion_cu_vaca	tank-man, I'm using random generated	20:41
ion_cu_vaca	:-)	20:41
johnx	or 00:00:C0:FF:EE ?	20:41
johnx	where's the fun in randomly generated	20:41
tank-man	is this for the wayfinder map?	20:42
ion_cu_vaca	yes	20:42
johnx	heh	20:42
johnx	ah, I thought this was something fun, like security testing...	20:42
ion_cu_vaca	the old version of map works if you just change the mac with ifconfig	20:43
ion_cu_vaca	but the new one is testing the mac in /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/cal_mac_address	20:43
johnx	wouldn't it be easier to do a string replace in the binary to have it read a different file?	20:44
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ion_cu_vaca	modifying the exe is stealing	20:45
ion_cu_vaca	:-))	20:45
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tank-man	fuzzy line you walk there	20:46
GeneralAntilles	^	20:46
GeneralAntilles	Is there a line?	20:46
johnx	Johnny Cash says yes	20:47
Mousey	Johnny Cash is dead	20:47
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johnx	and now ion_cu_vaca walks the line, though not as musically	20:47
lcuk	lbt, are you knocking about and since you have a bit of nounce about git is there any possibility that you could get git compiled for n8x0?	20:48
GreyFoxx	Anyone here using any of those foldable bluetooth keyboards?	20:49
GreyFoxx	I'm thinking of picking one up	20:49
tank-man	i have the apple bt one	20:50
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GreyFoxx	tank: A foldable one? I didn't know they made them.	20:52
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tank-man	no, just normal flat one	20:52
tank-man	:P	20:52
GreyFoxx	heh ok :)	20:52
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GreyFoxx	I'm looking for something foldable to stuff in my backpack pocket	20:52
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ion_cu_vaca	well, i replaced the mac from /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/cal_mac_address with $(cat /home/user/MyDocs/mac.txt), but after the reboot, in cal_mac_address I still have the n800's original mac	20:53
ion_cu_vaca	any ideas how to get a fake value in /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/cal_mac_address	20:54
ion_cu_vaca	?	20:54
johnx	it's set by cal, so maybe do a string edit of that binary to look someplace besides NAND for the MAC?	20:56
lcuk	GreyFoxx, i heard of a swap 800 for 810 program from some development company	20:59
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lcuk	http://smancke.blogs.evolvis.org/2008/06/19/give-a-n800-get-a-n810/	20:59
lcuk	ooops, closed now	21:00
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GreyFoxx	heh	21:01
* ScreamingN800 loves the new bigger writeable initfs in Diablo		21:02
ion_cu_vaca	johnx, where is cal?	21:02
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johnx	ion_cu_vaca, /mnt/initfs	21:03
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ion_cu_vaca	thanks	21:03
johnx	'cal' is the name of the thing, but not necessarily the file you need to edit	21:03
ScreamingN800	FINALLY! We can have ext3 filesystems booting. Journalling forever!	21:03
* johnx has been using ext3 as a bootable FS for months now		21:04
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ion_cu_vaca	well, what's the file?	21:04
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johnx	ion_cu_vaca, there are a lot of files involved, find the one with the string you're interested in :)	21:04
johnx	I really haven't looked into this	21:04
* qwerty12_N800 perks on cal. i looked into it a little bit		21:05
qwerty12_N800	*up	21:05
ScreamingN800	johnx is a smart bu**er --- Needs a tiny patch to /mnt/initfs/linuxrc	21:05
johnx	nah, I just used fanoush's little bootmenu modification	21:06
pupnik	GreyFoxx: i have the Thinkoutside Stowaway and i think it's excellent	21:06
ScreamingN800	Which you no longer need now /mnt/initfs can be mounted writeable	21:06
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ScreamingN800	Just mount -o remount,rw /mnt/initfs and use you fave editor	21:07
johnx	fair enough	21:08
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johnx	I thought he made the bootmenu a little nice or something though	21:08
qwerty12_N800	cal isn't in initfs. it's not even a filesystem.	21:08
johnx	qwerty12_N800, hmm? what's not an FS?	21:08
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GreyFoxx	pup: cool :)	21:09
qwerty12_N800	cal :). it's part of config partition	21:09
johnx	but there's also the things that access cal from initfs	21:09
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qwerty12_N800	i guess wlancond reads value of wlan mac from cal and sets it there	21:09
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qwerty12_N800	but if you know how to edit cal itself, initfs is irrelevant	21:10
johnx	right, but all he care's about is the entry in /sys, not the actual mac address used for networking	21:11
johnx	modest built BTW, any takers?	21:11
ScreamingN800	johnx: No longer needed, (though nice). I just added a line "mount /dev/$root_dev -t ext3 -o rw,noatime,nodiratime /mnt/new_root" into mount_device and Bob is you mothers brother	21:11
ion_cu_vaca	qwerty12, so, where and what should I modify to get a fake mac in /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/cal_mac_address?	21:11
ScreamingN800	s/you/you're/	21:12
infobot	ScreamingN800 meant: johnx: No longer needed, (though nice). I just added a line "mount /dev/$root_dev -t ext3 -o rw,noatime,nodiratime /mnt/new_root" into mount_device and Bob is you're mothers brother	21:12
qwerty12_N800	ion_cu_vaca, you can't :(. the format of the cal isn't reversed.	21:12
qwerty12_N800	here are my notes on it : http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20465	21:13
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johnx	right, and since it's poking at a raw NAND system, not a file there's no string to replace	21:13
qwerty12_N800	it's probably easier to reverse the map app itself and get it to read another file	21:13
* johnx made a mistake :)		21:13
johnx	which is what I suggested in the first place :)	21:14
ion_cu_vaca	yeah, johnx :-)	21:14
ScreamingN800	While I am here, if anyone else has a MicroSD in the Kingston Micro-FullSize converter.	21:14
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ion_cu_vaca	what editor should I use to try to edit a binary file? vi?	21:15
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qwerty12_N800	nope, an hex editor	21:15
ScreamingN800	Which is impossible to get of the slot having no thumbnail hole	21:15
johnx	hexedit is my choice	21:15
qwerty12_N800	if that fails, scream and load up ida	21:16
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ScreamingN800	A little Cellotape tag made by doubling the stuff after the end of the card works a treat.	21:17
qwerty12_N800	i'll take a look at the map app too, i never used the trial despite activating it	21:17
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johnx	anyways ion_cu_vaca, you're on your own from here :)	21:18
ScreamingN800	G'nite all and sundry	21:18
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ion_cu_vaca	johnx, I know and I think I'll give up for now. I don't have linux on my computer	21:20
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qwerty12_N800	you don't need linux :(	21:21
qwerty12_N800	*:)	21:21
johnx	anyways, I'm off to bed anyways	21:21
* johnx sleeps, lurks		21:21
qwerty12_N800	night :)	21:22
johnx	'night qwerty12_N800	21:22
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ion_cu_vaca	tx johnx, gn.	21:24
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qwerty12_N800	hi crashanddie	21:26
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qgil	Hi there	21:37
qgil	We are going to announce the registration of the Maemo Summit right now	21:37
qgil	only the time to put the links and write announcement & blog	21:37
qgil	you have the link with the info above in the topic	21:37
qgil	the registration form is here: https://maemo.org/news/events/registrations/register/2f91448248e711dd8bcbb7b26102ad49ad49.html	21:37
* lcuk waves		21:38
qgil	you can follow who is registered at https://maemo.org/news/events/maemo_summit-001/	21:38
qgil	if you find any issue please report bugs to http://bugs.maemo.org - Product Website component Calendar	21:38
lcuk	qgil, do I have to mention my workplace even though this has NOTHING to do with them?	21:38
qgil	up to you	21:38
qgil	this is just for information to others	21:39
lcuk	fair enough	21:39
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qgil	please ask all these questions in the wiki page, so we can answer there and all keeps well documented	21:39
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lcuk	:( @ my karma	21:42
timeless	can i get someone to change the form	21:43
timeless	"The company that hires you"	21:43
timeless	s.b. /employs/	21:43
timeless	unless you can predict your next employer...	21:43
* lcuk wants to		21:44
qgil	timeless: there are typos that even myself can see :)	21:44
qgil	file bugs	21:44
qgil	I just didn't want to wait one day more	21:44
qgil	tomorrow I'm flying to GUADEC etc	21:44
timeless	qgil: but that'd be karma whoring :)	21:44
timeless	ok, enjoy guadec	21:44
* timeless tries to figure out what 'main volunteering project' means		21:45
* timeless doesn't speak this form's language		21:45
qgil	... and now I will ignore your some time until I get all this up and ready ;)	21:45
lcuk	qgil, one thing, related to linuxtag: could you find out when the reimbursement will be due, the cc is maxed here...	21:45
qgil	should be on its way, really	21:45
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lcuk	ok cool :) thx	21:46
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lcuk	timeless, i sussed it anyway, its what you are there to do/discuss/code/expand	21:47
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lcuk	how do i put my user and date in the wiki	21:48
lcuk	its some combo of squiggles but i have no idea what	21:49
timeless	typically ~~~~ or something, isn't there a preview button?	21:49
lcuk	yer, ill see if it works - id tried 2 and 3	21:50
lcuk	..	21:50
GeneralAntilles	~~~~	21:50
infobot	ARGH!!! STOP IT generalantilles!!!	21:51
timeless	lol	21:51
qwerty12_N800	haha	21:51
GeneralAntilles	~$50	21:51
* infobot takes the cash and sucks generalantilles off		21:51
GeneralAntilles	Is funnier	21:51
GeneralAntilles	/much creepier	21:51
qwerty12_N800	sucks off sounds like it's giving heads	21:51
GeneralAntilles	~$5	21:52
GeneralAntilles	~$20	21:52
GeneralAntilles	~$100	21:52
* infobot gives generalantilles full service!		21:52
qwerty12_N800	oh shit :D	21:52
timeless	um	21:53
timeless	https://maemo.org/news/events/registrations/registration/view/bf1e6a1e493011ddb23f551b85fcedc6edc6.html	21:53
timeless	Midgard CMS	21:53
timeless	Access denied	21:53
qwerty12_N800	infobot, you a boy or a girl?	21:53
infobot	I'm a transexual transvestite from transylvania.	21:53
timeless	it won't let me visit the registration page	21:53
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lcuk	timeless: DENIED	21:54
* lcuk dances around cos he registered :P		21:54
timeless	Bug 3388 Submitted	21:56
qgil	timeless: appreciated	21:56
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timeless	qgil: i don't like karma whoring :)	21:57
timeless	on that note, i think i'll release a blog :)	21:57
qgil	mmm in fact it shouldn't show up there	21:57
timeless	?	21:57
crashanddie	hey qwerty12_N800	21:57
qgil	no, I asked for it but only internally so we could have it as additional value when going through sponsoring requests	21:58
qwerty12_N800	crashanddie, hi :)	21:58
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timeless	fwiw, i've updated http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/144/ and http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/143/ for people who don't recognize the terms :)	22:02
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GeneralAntilles	lol	22:04
GeneralAntilles	Nice pictures	22:04
timeless	Bug 3389 has been added to the database	22:05
* timeless wishes someone would fix http://maemo.org		22:05
timeless	actually wait a second	22:05
timeless	i can fix bugs.maemo.org :)	22:05
qgil	https://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/maemo_summit-registration_open-_free.html	22:06
qgil	can you please spam the maemo lists and ITt? I'm going to blog about this right now - thanks!	22:06
qgil	an one important thing: those of you having invested soooooo many hours in this beloved Maemo platform: please register	22:07
qgil	https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2008/Sponsorship is for contributors like you, if that helps	22:08
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JamieBennett	:) Registered	22:10
pupnik	143 is great	22:12
Jaffa	re	22:13
lcuk	\o hi jaffa	22:14
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Jaffa	qgil: I need to investigate flights from London to Berlin and then Berlin to Amsterdam/Eindhoven. Fun fun fun.	22:14
JamieBennett	I was looking at flights from Bristol to Berlin, £57 return!	22:15
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timeless	pupnik: feel fre to vote for 145 when planet finds it :)	22:17
timeless	if 143 is still in planet archives, you can vote for it too :)	22:17
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GeneralAntilles	karma whore!	22:18
timeless	hey, i deserve that karma! :)	22:19
GeneralAntilles	What is with crap like this? http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemo-planet.jpg Spammy. . . .	22:19
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timeless	what is legacyofflies.com ?	22:19
GeneralAntilles	Plugin hosting website for Redline that I help setup and run http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redline_%28video_game%29	22:20
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* timeless sighs		22:21
timeless	someone really needs to move planet off maemo.org	22:21
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RST38h	timeless: I have checked memory consumption with htop	22:23
qgil	Jaffa: https://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Maemo_Summit_2008#Travel	22:23
qgil	JamieBennett: please share also at https://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Maemo_Summit_2008#Travel	22:23
RST38h	timeless: browserd takes 6-7MB on the average when nothing is running	22:23
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timeless	i think that's reasonable/expected	22:23
RST38h	timeless: Is there any way to make it quit after 5-15 minutes?	22:23
timeless	does browser start faster today than it did in chinook?	22:24
RST38h	not really	22:24
timeless	that's somewhat unforunate..	22:24
bmidgle1	how do you guys type a \| into an n810?	22:24
timeless	maemo: depends if you're using en-gb or en-us for the keylayout	22:24
timeless	s/maemo/bmidgle1/	22:24
infobot	timeless meant: bmidgle1: depends if you're using en-gb or en-us for the keylayout	22:24
bmidgle1	en-us	22:24
RST38h	well, it would be fortunate to be able to make browserd quit if it is not being used for more than n minutes	22:24
timeless	but mostly you hit the &!ae button	22:25
timeless	rst38h: /maybe/	22:25
aquatix	bmidgle1: hit the Chr key	22:25
aquatix	and go on row down	22:25
RST38h	the way it is right now though, it does not speed things up much while eating 6MB of RAM	22:25
timeless	rst38h: is that resident?	22:25
bmidgle1	thanks aquatix	22:26
JamieBennett	qgil: ok	22:26
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bmidgle1	is obexsrv part of the base os? I installed something before the diablo upgrade and i'm trying to debug obex connection failures...	22:27
timeless	bmidgle1: if it's open source, http://mxr.maemo.org/ should answer the question	22:28
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timeless	wah, people voted against wile e coyote	22:31
GeneralAntilles	Not Warner Bros fans, I suppose.	22:32
timeless	heh	22:34
timeless	i can't bury this item properly	22:34
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* timeless sighs		22:39
timeless	garage sucks	22:39
timeless	or planet sucks	22:40
ricko73	lol	22:40
ricko73	so Diablo is the way to go?	22:40
lcuk	dont tell me that, im just trying to work out how to get my project into it	22:40
bmidgle1	diablo obex issues: obexsrv -l is being spawned on n810 but connecting from a trusted device fails	22:40
bmidgle1	from the hcidump, it looks like the n810 just drops the connection	22:41
timeless	lcuk: sorry, this isn't garage, it's a blog article about a garage :o	22:41
lcuk	:S oook	22:41
* ricko73 could use a garage, about 20x22ft would be great		22:42
bmidgle1	strange, "-l" isn't a documented flag	22:42
bmidgle1	for obexsrv	22:42
Jaffa	qgil: presumably maemo summit registration is free, but doesn't get you into OSiM World for free? (Thinking, in particular about Ari's keynote)	22:44
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JamieBennett	OSim is 399 euros+tax for a developer	22:45
JamieBennett	I'll be there	22:45
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Jaffa	Anyone know a cheap airline which operates between Amsterdam/Eindhoven and Berlin?	22:46
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JamieBennett	KLM?	22:46
lorelei_	AirBerlin?	22:46
qgil	Jaffa: we still have to get a deal closed with the organizers	22:46
qgil	th developer sessions are entrance free	22:47
qgil	but this is not enough	22:47
Jaffa	qgil: interesting	22:47
qgil	"developer registration" is """"only""""" 300€ or so	22:47
qgil	a plan could be	22:47
madhav	gtk + xshm , how to use it?	22:47
RST38h	imeless: yes	22:47
Jaffa	JamieBennett/lorelei_: thanks. Additionally, anyone know which Berlin airport is best?	22:47
qgil	a bunch of guys with full registration covered, those that (we could say) really deserve the best	22:47
RST38h	timeless: it reports 11MB resident browserd, but only 6-7MB are actually private	22:48
madhav	any one have an answer?	22:48
lcuk	madhav, do you want to sit gtk ontop of a shm bitmap or just want a shm memory block within a gtk app?	22:48
qgil	then the rest a combination of dev sessions + the morning when ari has keynote	22:48
qgil	or something like that	22:48
qgil	let's see what they say	22:48
lorelei_	Jaffa: hmmm, actually AirBerlin doesn't do the Eindhoven-Berlin route..sorry :(	22:48
Jaffa	qgil: that'd be cool	22:48
qgil	and how many people requests sponsorship, how fits in our budget, how cheap flights and accommodation can be....	22:48
Jaffa	If I can find cheap enough flights, and a cheap hotel, I can probably get away without sponsorship	22:49
madhav	lcuk: i am basically looking for perf improvement..right now i am using pixbuf to show image for widget/window.. so thought using Xshm will improve perf (blitting would be better)	22:49
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JamieBennett	Jaffa: I'm in the same boat, do it on the cheap if possible (OSim and Maemo summit)	22:50
RST38h	madhav: it does improve things but not by much	22:50
RST38h	madhav: direct fb access should be faster	22:50
lcuk	madhav, you will have trouble housing gtk within anything other than native x (from that i could gather)	22:50
lcuk	sdl uses a shm buffer if i remember rightly but that doesnt even bring remarkable perf benefits	22:51
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lcuk	i managed to sidestep the issue by using the xv library and writing as YUV	22:51
madhav	xv library?	22:51
lcuk	yer, Xv overlay YUV bitplanes - what mplayer and the standard media player displays movies on (the only thing that moves quick...)	22:52
lcuk	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUPp_mE7rwI	22:52
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pupnik	will there be a maemo developers wet t-shirt competition?	22:52
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Jaffa	Ewww	22:53
JamieBennett	Just bring the man boobs ;)	22:53
* lcuk throws up		22:53
madhav	lcuk: i have gtk widgets with pixbuf images as bkground/icon...will that improve.. with YUV?	22:53
lcuk	no...	22:53
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lcuk	well, not unless you redesign SQL to use YUV, or adapt x11 to natively work in YUV or something like that	22:54
lcuk	not SQL - i meant GTK and/or SDL	22:54
* lcuk has databases on his mind		22:54
madhav	SDL with directfb?? something like that?	22:55
lcuk	not really, the framebuffer cannot display fullscreen RGB data fast enough. the only way round that is to lower the resolution (and solve the tearing issue) or screw everything and try YUV format	22:56
lcuk	look at my video i just posted to see where ive got up to	22:56
madhav	okay	22:56
lcuk	i will be releasing the source at some point (hopefully this evening if crashanddie hurries up ;)) but dont know if it will be generically useful at this point	22:56
lbt	:D	22:58
crashanddie	STOP HIGHLIGHTING ME, I'M GIVING A LESSON HERE	22:58
lcuk	ahhh lbt :D just the person i need to see. ...	22:58
pupnik	i'll release a new emulator youknowwhen	22:58
lcuk	PMSL!	22:58
wazd	Back again :) Hello everybody :)	22:58
crashanddie	gimme a sec, I'm giving 'em an exercise	22:58
lcuk	thats ok crashanddie, close your irc	22:58
lcuk	pupnik, so you are comin?	22:59
pupnik	no i have no idea where'll i'll be in sept	22:59
wazd	i'm planning to part Moscow to the Maemo Summit right after Queen concert :)	22:59
lbt	I only stopped by to say hi - Mrs lbt is calling...	22:59
* lcuk can see you riding across germany, laptop in hand "i got video out to work, it works, it works!"		22:59
lbt	was it quick lcuk?	23:00
pupnik	kisses to mrs lbt from me	23:00
madhav	lcuk: i had a look at that video...how did u achieve that perf..with xv YUV?	23:00
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lbt	pupnik: I'll enjoy that ;)	23:00
wazd	The information about hotels is extremely useful btw	23:00
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lcuk	yes lbt, if you could have a look at getting git compiled for nit i would be most appreciative	23:00
lcuk	not now obviously	23:00
lbt	OK - why not...	23:00
lcuk	but i havent got enough installed here and i cant get my vmware working	23:00
lbt	on my todo then...	23:00
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lcuk	excellent :) you go and service mrs lbt :P :D	23:01
lbt	I 'ported' ddd the other day - absolute doddle - just worked	23:01
madhav	lcuk:?	23:01
lcuk	ive got a feeling i could get git working, but it needs perl as one of its build steps	23:01
lcuk	madhav, yes	23:01
lcuk	i wrote the entire rendering engine, from pixels to rectangles to lines to font glyph blitting	23:02
lcuk	and all the classes on top	23:02
* lcuk has tired fingers		23:02
lbt	hmm - I wish SDK+ wasn't dead - that uses host apps.... still...	23:02
* lbt has gone now		23:02
madhav	lcuk: have u tried SDL with opengl backend?	23:03
lcuk	how would that help?	23:03
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madhav	X gets accelerated with GPU i guess..	23:05
lcuk	wicked! i didnt know that	23:05
lcuk	awww man, theres me working my fingers to the bone when i couldv just done that :P	23:05
JamieBennett	git in scratchbox, yeah, done	23:05
GNUton	night	23:05
lcuk	we dont have drivers on this device for the powervr hardware on our machine	23:06
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madhav	powervr?	23:06
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RST38h	madhav: the short story is that opengl in maemo is currently not accelerated	23:07
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madhav	RST38h: how about direct fb?	23:08
RST38h	direct fb is faster than going through gtk but it is not accelerated either	23:08
qwerty12_N800	that sucks too :/	23:08
lcuk	qwerty12_N800, what res is android running in?	23:08
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, no idea :/	23:09
lcuk	cos theres a yt vid of a rotating cube	23:09
wazd	800x480 I think	23:09
wazd	didn't noticed quaded-pixels	23:09
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lcuk	i cant see single pixels anyway so i wouldnt know	23:10
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wazd	is ther eany screenshot software?)	23:10
wazd	It might give an answer)	23:10
qwerty12_N800	for android?	23:10
wazd	yep	23:10
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glass	android on what device?	23:11
wazd	n8x0	23:11
glass	probably the native 800x480.. i'd guess	23:11
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qwerty12_N800	i don't know for android, i don't think it's meant to allow direct access to things.	23:12
glass	it's meant to limit to their javalike vm	23:12
wazd	yep, maps software looks very sharp	23:12
wazd	so I think it's native	23:12
RST38h	btw, does android run normal midp apps?	23:12
glass	but still, it runnin on other than native reso would sound weird	23:12
glass	RST38h: well.. sorta no	23:12
lcuk	not really, none native res on this device looks fine	23:13
RST38h	sorta?	23:13
lcuk	ie 640*480 is indistinguishable	23:13
glass	RST38h: they'll have to ship a midp vm with the devices to be taken seriously..	23:13
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qwerty12_N800	shouldn't be too straining to make a quick app to read /dev/fb2 using load-applet as example to make program to run over ssh	23:13
glass	RST38h: but haven't read of any yet	23:13
RST38h	glass: aren't midp classes sufficient though>	23:13
RST38h	?	23:13
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, how blind are you?	23:13
glass	RST38h: the android vm isn't normal java, it's converted bytecode to their own format	23:14
qwerty12_N800	brb, i'll try and get a screenshot	23:14
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RST38h	that, btw, would have shown us how fast android really is	23:14
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RST38h	glass: well, as long as there is convertion from java bytecode, it should not be a problem	23:14
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glass	RST38h: pre-conversion	23:14
glass	RST38h: the installer could do it i suppose	23:14
glass	RST38h: but like said, i've yet to read anything on it	23:14
lcuk	android isnt just java though is it - i thought it was an entire kernel platofmr with a java frontend	23:15
glass	RST38h: remember, lots of folk assumed iphone to have j2me apps too because thats just industry standard..	23:15
RST38h	lcuk: yes, but google oly wants you to see the frontend	23:15
glass	lcuk: 3rd party apps are pretty much supposed to just be java	23:15
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RST38h	glass: well, iphone has no java, android is java	23:15
glass	lcuk: the kernel part customisation is meant just for device manufacturers etc	23:15
lcuk	but im seeing examples which are using opengles	23:15
glass	RST38h: yeah but the point is to not assume features, especially from first entries to market..	23:16
glass	lcuk: so?	23:16
RST38h	lcuk: a few people who complained about lack of native developemnt have been eventually kicked off andoird mailing lists	23:16
glass	lcuk: opengles like stuff can be doen in java you know	23:16
lcuk	yes, but doesnt that imply you have the low level library to support the java top layer?	23:16
glass	hmm?	23:17
glass	as in getting the powervr drivers from it?	23:17
glass	or what you're shooting at?	23:17
lcuk	now you are seeing why it has piqued my curiosity	23:17
glass	heh, well that is a possibility	23:18
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glass	i wouldn't count on it tho	23:18
pupnik	can someone quickly sum-up why one should care about android at all?	23:18
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glass	lot of android hypers don't understand the level of sandboxing theres going to be..	23:18
glass	pupnik: because it's google.. but thats not really a reason to care at all	23:18
lcuk	pupnik, its multiplatform linux core	23:18
glass	pupnik: lot of people care because it's linux, but thats not really a reason to care at all either	23:18
Jaffa	pupnik: Google wanting to beat the growth of Windows Mobile with a fairly-open mobile platform, which seems to care about usable/pretty UI	23:19
glass	pupnik: theres no reason to care untill they start shipping devices in big numbers, if they ever do	23:19
Jaffa	It's all very buzzword compliant. Java. Google. Linux. Open.	23:19
pupnik	it's a whole linux OS running on a java vm?	23:19
glass	no..	23:19
glass	linux is just used to run the vm	23:19
lcuk	no, its a whole linux os	23:19
glass	and interact with hw and shit	23:20
Jaffa	It's a Java app environment running on a Linux OS	23:20
pupnik	ok ty	23:20
glass	and they delayed the first devices to late year	23:20
Jaffa	Or Java-language/API-based app environment	23:20
Toba	the thing about android	23:20
Toba	is that it's not fully 'open' in its development	23:20
lcuk	now if they have got drivers in there for the omap2420 and they work i would want to know why cant we have them in maemo	23:20
lcuk	all pie in sky atm	23:20
Toba	supposedly it will be fully once they release the big 1.0 (or something)	23:21
Toba	but i'll believe it when I see the gpl stamped all over it	23:21
glass	Toba: they totally bullshitted the openness on it's hype launch, even though pretty short afterwards after reading the api stuff etc it was obvious it doesn't matter at all for normal devs that it runs linux	23:21
Toba	yes. I know.	23:21
jott	lcuk: i doubt there will be omap2420 based android devices..	23:21
Jaffa	Toba: Maemo's not fully open in its development either (historically, at least); that hasn't stopped us	23:21
lcuk	jott, have you seen gl on 810 looking like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae1EuH-59VE&feature=related	23:22
Toba	true true	23:22
lcuk	granted it might be my eyes, or just a partial display window updating, but that looks smoother than any 3d ive seen on device	23:22
Jaffa	lcuk: interesting	23:23
jott	lcuk: well i have seen quake, doom, etc on the devices	23:23
lcuk	lower resolution	23:23
lcuk	hence my initial question	23:23
Jaffa	lcuk: remember YouTube is 15fps and it looks a little slow-mo	23:23
jott	quake at full res is quite performant..	23:23
jott	and it's more than a cube ;)	23:23
lcuk	faster than nobounds	23:23
* GeneralAntilles thinks the Flash 10 beta doesn't work so well with YouTube. . . .		23:24
lcuk	jott, quake is not 3d in the same sense	23:24
lcuk	it doesnt use gl	23:24
GeneralAntilles	I see lots of green rectangles.	23:24
jott	lcuk: gl is just a language specification	23:24
ShadowJK	Maybe someone could poke in android and see if they find any powervr code?	23:24
jott	or api specification	23:25
glass	youtube vids arent much for judging quality/speed	23:25
lcuk	well mine looks good in it :)	23:25
jott	and andorid does a software rasterizer fallback	23:25
lcuk	its ok, it just looked faster and made me curious	23:25
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jott	and i suppose it could be reasonable fast	23:25
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ShadowJK	Oh, that rotating cube... My Nokia E70 phone, which does not have accelerated 3D... the Python SDK comes with a spinning cube opengles demo, and it's prefectly smooth on that phone... It has less powerful CPU than N810 iirc	23:26
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jott	well, yeah just look at warzone 2100, quake 1/2, doom, etc to see what the n8x0 can do without hw accelerated gl..	23:27
wazd	oh, btw, is there any friendly way to exit android?)	23:27
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lcuk	brb	23:27
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qwerty12_N800	is it possible to make modules.dep for initfs? insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/ etc is getting boring now.	23:30
jott	qwerty12_N800: depmod?	23:30
RST38h	ShadowJK: Rotating cube is just 12 triangles	23:31
jott	like.. http://sse2.net/depmod	23:31
RST38h	ShadowJK: Twice less if you are culling them	23:31
qwerty12_N800	would I have to chroot for modprobe?	23:31
qwerty12_N800	thanks for depmod	23:31
jott	RST38h: you never know, you could subdivide the faces like hell g	23:32
jott	qwerty12_N800: i copied the modules to /lib	23:32
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jott	you could equally symlink etc.	23:32
qwerty12_N800	ah, i see, nice idea	23:32
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jott	hm speaking of initfs, has someone a running toolchain for its uclibc?	23:33
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AStorm	jott: I had a similar one, but not the same	23:34
lcuk	jott, i gather you are coming to the summit	23:34
AStorm	newer uclibc and gcc	23:34
RST38h	jott: yes, but demo writers do not	23:34
jott	RST38h: yeah sure just kidding ;)	23:35
qwerty12_N800	fanoush filed a bug for it, would like to see outcome	23:35
jott	lcuk: yeah i guess so..	23:35
lcuk	what do you mean you guess so, you have to get us all from the airport and put all of us up at your house	23:35
jott	AStorm: hm yeah getting an abritrary uclibc toolchain is fine but do your binaries work in the diablo initfs?! ;P	23:36
AStorm	who cares?	23:36
AStorm	build statically	23:36
AStorm	they're not larger that way	23:36
AStorm	I wonder why they even put uclibc there	23:37
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jott	nah i could build statically with a normal libc if i wouldn't care ..	23:37
AStorm	it's a huge waste of space	23:37
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qwerty12_N800	but initfs isn't brilliantly large though (round 4m now)	23:37
AStorm	jott: not really, glibc is huge	23:37
AStorm	and network code is still a lib, so not really static	23:37
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jott	AStorm: still statically linking is mediocre..	23:38
AStorm	no, it's better for initfs	23:38
AStorm	you save a bit space	23:38
jott	eh? compared to dynamically linking against the existing uclibc?!	23:39
AStorm	yes	23:39
AStorm	initfs uses just a bit of uclibc	23:39
AStorm	no need for the whole thing	23:39
AStorm	even with static duplication, it's size savings	23:39
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AStorm	esp. thanks to compression	23:39
* jott doubts that this is generally true		23:40
AStorm	it usually is	23:40
AStorm	except for whole systems	23:41
AStorm	static is a pain to upgrade though	23:41
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AStorm	I even compared a static uclibc VPS for linux-vserver with a dynamic uclibc one	23:42
AStorm	the difference in size was close to 0	23:43
AStorm	(glibc one was much larger though, both static and dynamic, static being really huge)	23:43
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whooper	hey guys	23:45
whooper	new problem	23:45
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jott	AStorm: hm i just build a printf("hello world") and the static one is 20kb the shared 3kb...	23:46
jott	(with uclibc 0.9.28)	23:46
whooper	i uninstalled android with the proper .deb	23:47
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whooper	however, mplayer is still screwed up	23:47
whooper	is there any way to fix it without waiting for qwerty12 or completely reflashing?	23:48
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whooper	any idea?	23:51
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smackpotat	where is the url with all the intall files	23:53
GeneralAntilles	http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/chinook/install/	23:53
qwerty12_N800	whooper, penguinbait made a deb which flashes back old kernel.	23:54
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qwerty12_N800	i'm fixing that in the next kernel which should be released tomorrow (just gotta wait for my n810 tester :))	23:55
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smackpotat	I was thinking about the url at the top that had.../daveh...	23:56
smackpotat	..../dave/...	23:57
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Knirch	all urls with dave should result in 403	23:59
* Knirch crawls back under rock		23:59
GeneralAntilles	gronmayer.com/it ?	23:59
GeneralAntilles	mxr.maemo.org?	23:59

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