IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2008-07-03

lbtI've got an apple tree - they keep falling off too00:00
JamieBennettLets have a guessing session, apart from porn star what does every teenage boy want to do when they 'grow-up' ;)00:00
lcukzap, what do you mean and which errors00:00
lbtmarry one?00:00
derfJamieBennett: Play professional sports.00:00
JamieBennettderf: too energetic!00:00
||cwwin the lottery?00:00
JamieBennetttoo easy00:01
lcukin a geeks room, i would say about 80% astronauts00:01
||cwgame programming00:01
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derflcuk: That's usually beaten out of them by reality by the time they're teenagers.00:01
JamieBennettnot pimp00:01
JamieBennettI write games00:01
||cwpimp, yeah!00:01
JamieBennettIt would pay better!00:02
* lcuk wanted to work at ocean software :)00:02
lardmanpimp means something different for American's doesn't it?00:02
derflardman: What does it mean for Brits?00:02
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lardmanderf: Sell whores00:02
derflardman: That's what it means in America.00:03
JamieBennettOcean, now they did some good games!00:03
lardmanah, I always thought pimping a ride was more the thing00:03
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GeneralAntillespimp is also a slang term for "cool" here.00:03
lardmanah right00:03
derflardman: That's just slang.00:03
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lcukJamieBennett, :) are you in a large house as a tiny part of a huge mega project or are you in a small team developing major chunks?00:03
GeneralAntillesBut "a pimp" has the same meaning both sides.00:03
derfWell, "pimp" the slang means excessively flashy.00:04
lcukie, are you an EA slave or a Valve megagod00:04
JamieBennettlcuk, small team and self contained games from start to finish, the best way00:04
lcukderf, where you get my picture from00:04
qwerty12_N800derf, a camp pimp?00:04
zaplcuk: for example physics sym or game test00:04
lcukwhat systems do you target?00:04
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derflcuk: Google image search, of course.00:05
GeneralAntilles #4 and #700:05
lcukzap, read the instructions and create _apg folder and give it rights00:05
lcukinfact in the zip there is a base _apg folder00:05
jakemaheui'm back00:05
lcuksorry theres no installer00:05
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whooperso what's going on?00:06
qwerty12_N800Ed_ really needs to add an freedesktop notification to openssh postinst saying ssh-keygen is doing its stuff >.<00:06
whooperhey qwerty?00:07
qwerty12_N800hey whooper00:07
whooperwhat's deal with the patch for android?00:07
qwerty12_N800I need to fix some other things before i release it.00:08
whooperah, like mplayer?00:08
qwerty12_N800yeah :900:08
qwerty12_N800(and games that use xsp)00:08
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qwerty12_N800JamieBennett, nice app btw00:09
JamieBennettwell stone me it was the rogue insertions from geany that stopped it working, works now BTW00:09
crashanddie_qwerty: 42,727118, 2,98739000:09
qwerty12_N800crashanddie_, You are my hero00:10
qwerty12_N800(if the cords are real :p)00:10
crashanddie_though, that's my bro in law00:10
JamieBennettqwerty12_N800 have you tired it in the last couple of minutes. It installs and works fine now apart from the help screen not quiting nicely (need to hook it to a gtk quit)00:10
* towo thumbs the coordinates and says "eww"00:10
crashanddie_qwerty: so if you try to steal something, you'll have a bull terrier chewing on you leg00:11
qwerty12_N800JamieBennett, i'm using the deb you linked to before, with the ^M removed from python.2.500:11
* whooper turned down steak for hot dogs00:11
* whooper thinks steak is gross00:11
qwerty12_N800crashanddie_, the bro in law?00:12
crashanddie_no, his dogs00:12
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JamieBennettqwerty12_N800: Cool. I do a lot of travelling and this kind of app was missing I thought. Lots of people have requested it so why not. I'll tidy it up and make an announcement tomorrow.00:12
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whooperwhat app-- i wansn't lurking00:13
lcukJamieBennett, spam link again im on 81000:13
qwerty12_N800JamieBennett, I like it, thanks for the app :). But have you thought of sorting the list in alphabetical order?00:13
whooperwhat app?00:13
lcukgot it..00:14
JamieBennettI can sort it in any order, alphabetical seems reasonable00:14
JamieBennettlcuk, you got it00:14
qwerty12_N800lcuk's been cloned, aiii!!!00:14
whoopercurrency converter?00:14
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lcuk2no i havent00:14
JamieBennettyes, online, gets the days conversion rates they you specify a value, a from and to currency and it converts00:15
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qwerty12_N800how do i know which one is the real one speaking?00:15
whooperokay, that's neat00:15
JamieBennettsmall app that satisfies an inch that is surprisingly common (from the mail I've recieved)00:16
lcukJamieBennett, usability (not sure if its possible) but a number field should set me up to type numbers directly without having to double tap Fn key (n810)00:16
lcukotherwise great :D00:16
lcukqwerty12_N800, you dont00:16
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lcukJamieBennett, :) thanks for posting00:17
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JamieBennettlcuk: no problem. I don't have an n810 do I have no idea what it does.00:17
* qwerty12_N801 runs around and compiles stuff00:17
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derfI mean, usually if you're online you just use a webpage to do currency conversions.00:17
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JamieBennettThe next version will store the last date it got and use that to convert if you have no connection00:18
derfThat's getting closer to being actually useful.00:18
lcukjust hold onto it anyway and if its out of date just add a little warning "rates are 4 days old"00:18
lcukits not like you have a problem of screen estate00:19
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JamieBennettlcuk: yeah the '0.1.0' release is very alpha! On a side note I oftern look at the 'deals' in the airport and think its good only to be stung when I look at the exchange rate00:19
lcukdamn! i thought it was polished and was going to get it updated to extras and autobuilt and stuff :P00:20
* lcuk knows all about 0.00000000001.00000001 releases00:21
JamieBennettUrmm, give me opengl and some serious hardware, I can polish! this is my first attempt for the tablets :D00:21
lcukopengl is a bit hard00:21
lcukwe have the hardware but no driver00:21
derfWhat fun is polish if you're using OpenGL?00:21
derfThat's tantamount to cheating.00:21
JamieBennettClutter would open the tablet to some really cool stuff00:22
lcukdont knock him, that currency convertor would look AMAZING with opengl effects00:22
lcukJamieBennett, :) what if you looked at clutter another way.  have you downloaded liqbase or seen the video?00:23
* lcuk has clutter on his mind00:23
JamieBennettlcuk I use clutter for another one of my projects (
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* qwerty12_N800 sweeps away lcuk's clutter to find nothing underneath00:24
lcukpesky kids00:24
lcukwaves his walking stick at him    .o/00:25
lcuk+ /me00:25
lcuksee, im senile00:25
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JamieBennettTime for bed, early start (4:30am) tomorrow. Thanks for the help tonight guys (and gals - maybe wishful thinking!)00:27
lcukgnite JamieBennett00:27
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lcukright, im goin as well. if i dont close this ill get nothin done00:28
lcukcyas later00:28
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lardmannight chaps00:30
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eichi_on they are talking about "diablo extras" what do they mean? extras without chinook?00:41
eichi_or what?00:41
GeneralAntillesa blank distribution field defaults to your current distribution00:41
GeneralAntillesso if you're running Diablo, then it's 'diablo'00:42
GeneralAntillesDiablo Extras is the diablo distribution part of Extras.00:42
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eichi_"No applications in Diablo extras is not fun. Users are complaining about this, with a reason." where is "diablo extras" ?00:43
GeneralAntillesThere's a part of the repository for diablo and a part for chinook00:43
eichi_ this one?00:44
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie, poke.00:46
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qgilhi there, do you know ? I got invited tonight but I have no idea about the show00:47
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timelyxqgil: grab a podcast of an old eps :)00:50
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qgiltimelyx: I did already and I know how it sounds - still not how people perceives it  :)00:55
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GeneralAntillesAh, fun, Android spam on itT. :P01:00
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whooperga: what?01:02
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lbtanyone for a bit of C++ ... I want to make P protected in this minimal example:
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penguinb8rude people suck!01:30
DekaritaeGrammar is fluid01:31
eichi_penguinb8, if i do 2 ext3 with your script, does copy the flash system 2 times? it seems like that01:35
jottlbt: how about making A a friend of B? not that nice but should work ...01:35
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eichi_okay ;)01:36
penguinb8how about shooting B?01:36
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towonuke them from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.01:37
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lbtjott: B doesn't change A so doesn't need to be a friend (if I've got that the right way rouund). I didn't want B a friend of A 'cos it already bailed me out when I  referred to the members directly in the wrong class by mistake.01:39
lbtI may not have much choice if C++ can't do it.01:40
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lbtah - hold on - I understand now - make A a friend of B so B can see A::P... gotcha...01:41
derfI'd encourage you not to try to think about these things too hard.01:41
derfC++ "access control" really only amounts to helpful suggestions, at best.01:42
lbtI wanted to make it elegant...01:42
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derfConsider the following thought experiment:01:42
derf#define class struct01:42
derf#define private public01:42
derf#define protected public01:43
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derfThat and the fact that any change to the "private" interface of a class makes you recompile everything anyway.01:43
derfIt's more of a joke than a useful language feature.01:44
lbtwell, I'm a perl hacker at heart - so making classes out of spare parts...01:44
lbtbut I did think about the private thing earlier01:44
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lbtI think I'll just make a Parser in my address space and make it a friend of the other classes - forget the nesting...01:46
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lbts/address /name/01:46
infobotlbt meant: I think I'll just make a Parser in my namespace and make it a friend of the other classes - forget the nesting...01:46
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lbtoh - cute..01:47
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lbthmm, I wonder what hmm it will hmm do here01:47
bexwhat irc client can i use on os2008?01:47
lbthmm, I wonder what hmm it will hmm do here01:48
infobotlbt meant: mmh, I wonder what mmh it will mmh do here01:48
lbtOK bedtime01:48
lbtnight all01:48
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eichi_Nokia-N800-23-14:/opt# tar xfvj debian-armel-n800-xfce-beta3.tar.bz201:51
eichi_tar: can't open 'vj': No such file or directory01:51
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* Mousey uses xchat for irc01:51
eichi_whats that for a show?01:51
derfeichi_: tar -xvjf01:51
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eichi_tar: invalid option -- j01:52
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Mouseyapt-get -t unstable install tar01:52
derfYeah, you need to ditch busybox.01:52
eichi_Mousey, doenst work01:53
eichi_busybox is already the newest version.01:53
jottyou need gnu tar with thos "propiertary" extension ;)01:53
Mouseyno, i'd imagine not. there's not really a notion of "unstable" in maemo01:53
jott(after all you don't need "j" or "z" with recent gnu tars)01:54
Mouseywhat derf said is right, busybox == suck01:54
Mouseybunzip2 filename.tar.gz01:54
bexi tried installing xchat  on my n800 but there were dependencies i couldn't figure out how to get01:54
Mouseythen tar xvf filename.tar01:54
eichi_busybox is something like a kindergarten instead of a real bash?01:54
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derfIt's a crippled, feature-free version of a number of standard tools designed for "embedded devices" when that meant the thing had 4MB of RAM at most.01:55
jottwell gnu userland is a non-standard extension of the posix world ;)01:55
derfIt's fine for cash registers, but maemo is a little bit more capable than your average cash register.01:56
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eichi_but the n800 should have enauht ram for a real bash with gnu aps?01:57
Mouseyapt-get install bash301:57
eichi_on my router its okay, but not on my pda01:57
derfUm, no.02:00
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derfI've had to use ksh.02:00
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eichi_lol now i have a archive on my n800 and realy cant get the content...its funny02:00
derfeichi_: Do you have bunzip2?02:01
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eichi_i dont have a repo containing this02:02
bexis there a default password (not lock code) on maemo?02:03
bexto get root02:03
infobot[easyroot] an easy way to get root access on OS2008 and can be found at http://nitapps.com02:04
eichi_derf, no02:05
Mouseyor just ssh root@localhost02:05
eichi_i will now use my laptop, gnarf02:05
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Atariihong kong fuckin rocks!02:07
eichi_bex, try to install openSsh (server) and login with ssh02:07
GrackleI compiled gforth for diablo, wee.02:08
Atariii got my stuff for 770 host mode and it works!02:10
Tobaany rumours of pysqlite for maemo?02:10
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Tobahi summatusmentis02:15
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whooperi'm back02:24
whooperdoes anyone think we should have a maemo summit of our own-- in the US?02:25
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Mouseyi'd go02:30
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, counter-poke02:31
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bexis this the best place to get xchat?
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bexit needs a few packages to install, but i dont know how to get them02:53
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, counter-poke02:54
crashanddieGAN800, ping02:54
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, next time you need to tell me something just PM/email (
bexoh you can add repositories02:59
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lcukbex, try here
lcukno need for a repo, the one you were trying was an older version (i believe)03:00
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bexyou rule!03:03
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UserID10THey everyone!03:04
UserID10TFor those who aren't idle at least, heh.03:04
RaytrayUhm, Hello.03:05
UserID10TRay you act as if saying hi is weird.03:05
UserID10TAnywho, I had a question about editing a file on my n800, if anyone wouldn't mind helping me out.03:06
RaytrayI suppose it is when you're saying hi to 273 people. If they all reply, well, that'd be some amount of spam.03:06
UserID10TYour logic rings true.  I shake my fist at it.03:06
crashanddieyet, of the 273 users, only 3 are active03:07
UserID10TGo figure, huh crash?03:07
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RaytrayTrue, which is why I struggled to say it hehe.03:07
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UserID10TWell, on my n800, I was trying to edit /etc/mce/mce.ini, but after I hit save, emelfm2(my file manager) said "cannot create: permission denied"03:08
UserID10TIs this normal?03:08
UserID10TIf not, what might be the cause?03:08
Mouseybad permissions03:08
crashanddiebecause it's ran as user03:08
Mouseyi just fixed that03:08
Mouseychown is your friend03:08
crashanddieand user is not allowed to write there03:08
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UserID10TI used sudo gainroot to try as root...03:08
UserID10TDoes this not work, when using a file manager program?03:09
crashanddiedunno, I don't know your file manager03:09
UserID10TAnd also...if you've fixed it, what should I do?  I am very very new to the tablets, and even newer to linux.03:09
crashanddieUserID10T, try this: sudo gainroot then vi /etc/mce/mce.ini03:09
UserID10Tvi /etc/mce/mce.ini as a command in xterm?03:09
crashanddieUserID10T, once you're in vi, hit colon, then w, and enter03:09
UserID10TRight on.03:09
UserID10TI have no idea what that did but it was awesome doing it.03:11
crashanddiebasically, you opened the file as root, and wrote the content to disk03:11
UserID10TNow I should be able to access and edit the file?03:11
crashanddiein other words, as rood, you can access/write to it03:12
UserID10TSo simply using sudo gainroot is not effective?03:12
crashanddieit would seem03:12
crashanddieI'm guessing your file manager forks the child process as the normal user ID03:13
crashanddieUserID10T, there's 3 ways of doing what you want, well, 4 actually03:13
UserID10THow do I give my file manager root access?03:13
crashanddieUserID10T, first: edit the file using a root-enabled manner (vi, for example, or creating the file, and copy it over when being root)03:13
UserID10TAs of this point, I am not comfortable enough with xterm to do it all from there.03:14
crashanddiesecond: give everyone write permission on the file (not very secure)03:14
crashanddiethird: change the owner of the file, to the "normal user", so that you can edit it using your favo editor03:14
crashanddieand fourth would be to hard to explain03:15
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crashanddieI would definitely encourage number 103:15
UserID10TWell using method is vi used, or is there documentation on it's purpose and use?03:15
UserID10TAlso, as I followed your direction, :w(enter) did a lot of...nothing?03:16
crashanddieit wrote the content of the file :)03:16
crashanddietry :q03:16
UserID10TDoh I accidentally ran vi by itself...03:18
crashanddienot a problem03:18
crashanddiewill quit03:18
crashanddiebasic run through, vi filename03:18
crashanddieopens filename03:18
crashanddiehitting "i" (once or twice, can't remember) will put you in insert mode, so you can add stuff03:19
crashanddieto exit insert mode, hit esc03:19
UserID10TI see how it works now...03:19
crashanddiewhen you're in command mode, type :wq to save and quit03:19
crashanddie:q! to force quit without saving (if you modified)03:19
UserID10TI see! so i to edit, then :w to save03:19
UserID10T:q to quit03:19
crashanddiedouble tap d to delete a line03:20
derfAnd most important, u to undo.03:21
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derfFor when you type something in command mode when you thought you were in insert mode and crazy things start happening.03:21
UserID10Thmmmm I went into insert mode...and I'm done editing.03:22
qgilReady for
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UserID10THow do I exit insert mode to :w?03:22
crashanddie(crashanddie) to exit insert mode, hit esc03:22
qgildamn, is 3:22am in Helsinki!03:22
Veggen2:22 in Bergen.03:22
UserID10THooray, let's see if it works.03:22
VeggenAnd I just got home from an evening trip to a mountain.03:22
wizait's 3:22am in Pori!03:22
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crashanddielike some people pointed out03:23
crashanddieway too late03:23
wizaand I'm moving 700 meg sql dumps03:23
crashanddieI'm heading out, crashing to bed03:23
wizaI'm thinking about lunch break...03:23
UserID10TThank you crash!03:23
UserID10Tand everyone who gave me amazing info!03:23
UserID10T7:23 here in Austin,Texas03:24
crashanddiebtw, you can actually put "vi user" on your CV :p03:24
UserID10TOh. lol03:24
wizaffs mysql dump compatibility error03:24
UserID10TIt worked <303:25
crashanddiewiza, reminds me when I worked for the french national scientific research center, I bought 3 gigs of ram for my laptop cuz I had to run a 2gig+ SQL database03:25
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wizaI'm just trying to get the freaking databases copied from production server to staging server03:26
crashanddieadd drop table and data structure03:26
wizathey are there, but production is running(of course) newer mysql03:28
wizathis is so not in my job description03:28
wizamaybe compatible=mysql40 will fix it03:29
wizaor I'm going home and cry myself to sleep with 18yo glennfiddich03:29
qgilfyi 1 one min I starts and I have been invited tot talk about Maemo and stuff03:30
qgil"see you" there, switching off here for concentration03:30
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|penguinbait|qgil - wow, never seen you in person :)03:31
|penguinbait|sort of03:31
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UserID10TSo I've heard there was an issue with the softpoweroff feature?03:34
UserID10TFor the n80003:34
UserID10Twell, for n800/81003:34
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ProteousI haven't heard that03:45
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ProteousI did hear my cat fart though03:45
UserID10TThat's pretty gross.  Did you shoo the cat, or revel in the glory?03:45
Proteousno reveling here03:46
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UserID10TWell...I set softpoweroff to short power press...and it blacks the screen out.03:46
UserID10TBuuuuuuut, you can press the screen and bring it back.03:46
bexis there a car charger i can buy for my n800?03:46
Proteousis it plugged in while you try this?03:47
UserID10TI found instructions for modifying /etc/mce/mce.ini to enable softpoweroff...but when I use it, it doesn't STAY in softpoweroff.03:48
UserID10TI especially want this to save power when not using it, and disabling wifi automatically.03:48
ProteousI don't know what softpoweroff does03:48
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Proteousyou can set the wifi timeout to something short03:48
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UserID10Tit's SUPPOSED to lock the keys, dim screen, and drop wifi automatically03:48
UserID10TAnd reconnect wifi upon return03:48
UserID10TPretty slick if you ask me.03:49
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Proteoussounds interesting03:51
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bexhmm do you think i could use my nokia cell phone charger for my n800?03:56
Proteousyou need to check to mA rating03:56
bexcar charger, that is03:56
lcuki use my gfs older home charger03:57
UserID10TIf you want one, and want it now...let me give you the specs for the power.03:57
Proteousif it outputs over 890mA03:57
lcukand ive got a single AA charger03:57
Proteousat 5v then it is okay03:57
lcukProteous, my gfs is nokia but not over 890, i think its 600 but cant b certain03:57
bexlemme see which charger i have03:57
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UserID10THere is a cheap cheap cheap charger03:58
UserID10TFor the care03:59
UserID10T2 bucks????03:59
ProteousI wouldn't plug my $350 device into a $2 device killer04:00
UserID10TI would.  Then again I'm dumb.04:00
UserID10TPlus paid 190 for mine.04:00
UserID10TI HAD one at 150, but the deal fell through :(04:01
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UserID10TThis is the Nokia brand charger.04:03
UserID10TIt does NOT clearly state it is for the n800, but is the only one with the correct adapter.04:03
bexhmm i cannot find my car charger anyways04:05
UserID10TI see.04:06
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whooperquit "Boooooring!"04:23
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UserID10TWelcome everyone who joined in the last 5 mins.04:49
UserID10TAnyone before that, forget you.04:49
UserID10TLOL RAY04:49
UserID10TOk ok, Ray too.04:49
UserID10TWelcome back Ray.04:49
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Capn_Fishjohnx: You here?04:59
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m-cpenguinbait here?05:04
ProteousI got my $8.00 bluetooth keyboard to pair with my n81005:04
* m-c wants.05:05
m-cI just paid $80 for one.05:05
RaytrayHoly crap where did you find that keyboard?05:05
Proteouscheap-o referb german laybout05:06
Proteousalthough it's not that much different'05:06
Proteousgoing to try to hack it into a NES gamepad to play NES games on my n81005:06
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ProteousI was wrong, it's just $6.00 plus shipping05:07
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Capn_FishWhy don't you just use the N810's KB to play NES games?05:08
Capn_FishToo cramped?05:08
Proteousthe dpad sucks for games05:09
|penguinbait|I play quake2 with my logitech rublepad :)05:09
Capn_FishI'd be inclined to agree. What about using like wasd?05:09
|penguinbait|usb cordless05:09
ProteousI am trying to get a gamepad that will fit in my pocket05:09
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Proteousthe fun part is the project, not so much the result05:10
Proteousalthough that is an added bonus05:10
|penguinbait|I have a bgp100 bt gamepad, but it was responsive enough05:11
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|penguinbait|uh yeah05:12
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m-c|penguinbait|: Hey, thanks for posting that article on a-droid - I just got it working on my n800 - nice to see it05:16
m-cProteous: Do you have that keyboard now, or did you just order it?05:19
ProteousI orderd it on sunday, I have it now, and successufly paired it with my n81005:20
Proteousnow it's all take apart :P05:20
m-cso paired up no problemo ?05:20
Proteousseems the board is totaly small enough to fit in a NES controler05:20
Proteousm-c: there were no instructions, so I have to do some googling to figure out what to do05:21
Proteousbut yeah, once I figured out what to do I didn't have a problem05:21
* m-c suggests posting HOWTO to the ITT Forum. ;)05:21
Proteousprobably a good idea05:22
m-cI am tempted to buy a stack of them, except that I already have this $80 apple one05:22
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lcukgnite maemo06:01
johnx'night lcuk06:02
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clijunkieHello all.  I'm messing with my n810 and would like to know if there is a "hook"bto toggle the light from the cli, like you can with  a thinkpad.06:40
clijunkieFor my thinkpad I would use /proc/acpi/ibm/light06:41
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jitu3485Hi, on my system (ubuntu gusty) when i added vm.mmap_min_addr=4096, to install CHINOOK, it hanged  and now refusing to boot08:11
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jitu3485how to resolve this?08:11
qwerty12Can you use single user/recovery mode? It's on the grub menu.08:12
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jitu3485qwerty12, i tried that but it is also not throwing me on prompt08:14
qwerty12Boot up the ubuntu install cd and mount the drive and edit the sysctl.conf and umount and reboot again.08:15
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RST38hqwerty: moo08:21
qwerty12baa, hi :)08:21
jitu3485qwerty12, thanks08:23
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RST38his it normal that canola starts for longer than 1 minute on Diablo?08:29
qwerty12Yes, python is throwing a hissy fit about modules it cannot find.08:29
RST38hurgh :( any way to fix it?08:30
qwerty12Use the python from chinook extras :/08:31
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qwerty12If you use canola -vvv, you may be able to spot the modules and extract them manually instead.08:31
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* RST38h is using python from chinook extras afaik08:33
RST38hDo I run canola -vvv once, from command line?08:34
qwerty12Yeah, you may want to pipe the output to a file to see the problem. Also pythonlauncher helps with canola quite a bit.08:35
RST38h1215063515.1733 DEBUG manager:114:get_classes() looking for classes with filter 'Model/Multitask'08:36
RST38hAre these lines the sign of a problem?08:36
RST38hIt actually looks to be legitimate Canola attempts to look for plugins08:37
qwerty12Hmm,probably sounds like it. It won't be modules if you are using chinook python.08:37
RST38hLemme try ptyhonlauncher then08:38
jitu3485qwerty12, i booted from live cd, mounted filesystem,changed file and rebooted  but still system is not booting.08:42
qwerty12Are you sure that you haven't made any other change? Did you put vdso=0 in the sysctl as well?08:43
jitu3485qwerty12, yes and i did nothing aprt from that08:45
qwerty12The vdso is the thing that is probably causing your problem. Another person here had a problem with vdso=0 in sysctl.08:45
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RST38hHey-who-the-hell-changed-personal-launcher-icon?!? =)08:46
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Naviyou know08:59
NaviI haven't been getting update warnings09:00
Navithat new icon is gross09:01
NaviWell, not totally gross09:02
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NaviThe single thing the new one has over the old one is the dropshadow09:02
RST38hI definitely want the old icon back though09:05
qwerty12Extract it from the old deb on garage.09:05
RST38hcan we have it as an option in the current deb? =)09:06
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qwerty12You could repack the deb and update the md5sum but I've got homework to do >.>09:06
timelyxi don't think it's in app-mgr09:07
timelyxit should be in some theme thing09:07
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qwerty12It's a custom icon provided by the app :)09:07
qwerty12Actually, I don't know with the latest version09:07
timelyxi couldn't find it09:07
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qwerty12We were talking about the personal launcher :)09:08
jitu3485qwerty12,  i removed vm.vsdo_enabled from /etc/sysctl.conf also, and system  is booting smmothly now thanks09:08
timelyxsorry, all i saw was "update warnings" i assumed you meant the app update icon :)09:08
qwerty12jitu3485, You can add vdso=0 to grub. Seems to work better for some people (just don't add it onto the default boot option, make a new boot entry first)09:09
RST38hLooks like memory usage is much higher in Maemo09:10
RST38hModest and Browserd eat up a lot of memory, whatever timeless says09:10
qwerty12I disabled the modest daemon as I never use it and I can agree with you for browserd09:11
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RST38hqwerty: The problem is that we have to make timeless agree...09:14
* qwerty12 gets the gun ready, agreed yet? :P09:15
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bexis there an about option on maemo? i could have sworn i saw it09:23
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hrwguys: is there any text editor with hildon interface?09:24
hrwsimple gedit like even09:25
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qwerty12leafpad was hildonised09:25
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hrwqwerty12: but not in extras?09:38
qwerty12RST38h, I see what you mean about the icon :/09:38
timelyxRST38h: browserd shouldn't really cost significantly more than browser did in chinook09:40
qwerty12timelyx, mind pausing time for me?09:43
timelyxsorry, not yet implemented09:43
JaffaMirbubgm akk09:44
JaffaMorning, all even09:44
qwerty12Jaffa, aas Mirbubgm? !!!! dsfj jkaskads09:45
qwerty12Morning :)09:45
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eichi__good morning10:44
eichi__if i boot from mmc i cant use the usb client mode without problem?10:45
hrwnot for usb-storage mode10:46
eichi__okay, thats what i mean10:46
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timelyxandre__: so,... could we figure out a plan for garage in bugs.maemo?11:37
timelyxesp, i'd love to move browser-extras into bugs.maemo11:38
timelyxthen a certain bug could just be moved :)11:38
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disqso who's coming to guadec this year?11:41
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timelyxi think it's basically figuring out a timeline for upgrading bugzilla to current11:44
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eichi__something like mount -o /mnt/initfs/ rw so remount initfs rw?11:51
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floriangood morning11:56
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__tgood moin11:58
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florianhi __t12:07
__thi florian12:07
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__tflorian: do you know about maemo developers arround berlin?12:12
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florian__t: rschuster (not here right now) does is located there iirc12:14
florian__t: define "around", since maemo is worldwide thingy Siegen might count as well ;)12:14
__tflorian: arround as in "up for a beer in the evening" ;-) so it depends on you12:15
florian__t: heh, well might be a little bit far for a beer, but a good idea... I happen to be there sometimes.12:17
__tI guess in september you will come?12:18
florian__t: quite likely, yes :)12:20
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aquatixhm, how actively is telepathy being worked on?12:39
aquatixpackages for maemo are at least half a year old12:39
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* lcuk will be parking liqbase in the garage tonight. *gulp*13:07
X-Fadelcuk: Great!13:08
X-FadeI know that is a big step for you, thanks for doing that!13:08
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lcukits not there yet (i only decided on the drive in this morning).  if some devs could post a few words in the iTT thread about their first time it might make me feel a bit better13:10
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* lcuk gets back to work13:14
* aquatix is watching lcuk's youtube movie13:14
aquatixlooks great13:14
aquatixwhat exactly is it?13:14
aquatixa graphics lib?13:14
aquatixhow cool, those drawings13:15
aquatixdang, should've had an n810 with this app years ago13:16
crashanddielcuk, about their first time ?13:16
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crashanddiewhat the hell is the midgard project ?13:24
pupniki like how lcuk's app handles the large graphics file and doesn't have problems scrolling through it13:28
aquatixit's damn smooth13:30
* aquatix eagerly awaits .deb13:30
pupnikdidn't he post the binary a while back?13:34
pupnikoh 'no deb yet'13:34
hellwolfHow could I use bluetooth to access N800's camera remotely13:36
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wazdLo there :)13:36
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wazdDoes anybody knows, is there an ICQ fix for tablets? pidgin have updatet it's lib so on Desktop it works fine but I haven't heard about tablet version :(13:37
minti_hi hw can i use  libsofia-tools  ? can i use it to test sofsip application ?13:38
aquatixwazd: doesn't it work on your tablet anymore?13:40
trickieaquatix: they started blocking non-icq clients13:40
aquatixi know13:40
trickieor changed something in the proto13:40
aquatixbut some older versions of libpurple still work13:40
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aquatixtrickie: the latest libpurple sends the newest client version strings and such13:41
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trickieyeah i don't use it on the tablet... just saw people have been having issues13:42
trickiehrw: hi13:42
wazdaquatix: ICQ released some weird opdate 2 days ago, that bricked all side-clients (all except ICQ6 itself)13:42
aquatixwazd: jups, my pidgin doesn't work anymore indeed [don't have 2.4.3 yet], but bitlbee still works :)13:43
wazdMost have released urgent updates13:43
pupnikI banned ICQ client from my last workplace.13:43
aquatixand i read remarks about libpurple 2.1.2 or something still logging in13:43
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aquatixhence my question, as telepathy haze uses an older libpurple on maemo yet13:44
wazdWell, I would like to not use ICQ but my contacts are not sharing this point with me :)13:44
aquatixmost of my contacts are msn...13:44
aquatixeven more evil13:44
wazdI think Russia is the only country that still uses ICQ :)13:45
minti_ hi  hw can i use  libsofia-tools  ? can i use it to test sofsip application ?13:46
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* GeneralAntilles is listening to the tllts from this morning.14:04
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pupnikthe Quim interview?14:07
X-FadeSound quality is a bit bad, but it is doable.14:08
hrwwazd: will omweather get option 'show city from gps as default'?14:08
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, I might have found something amazing14:09
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, I was poking you to find out whether this was your radio show. :P14:09
crashanddieah, no lol14:09
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles, There seems to be a promotional offer from RyanAir. I'm on their website right now, flying from Stansted to Berlin, september 18 to 20, £20 (tax included, the flights are free, only tax)14:10
hrwcrashanddie: nice price14:10
* hrw has to pay for bus Szczecin<>Berlin14:10
atulMy Xephyr is running and form scratchbox I did export display and I start dbus daemon but in Xephyr it wont display anythig why ?14:11
crashanddieatul, my balls ain't made of crystal, sorry14:11
crashanddieatul, mind posting some error messages, or the output of start14:12
atul"/usr/bin/ line 1: export: `/usr/bin/dbus-daemon:': not a valid identifie"14:12
atulthis Error message I got14:12
crashanddieatul, dbus-daemon --system14:13
atulcrashanddie: so what to do ? to fix this problem ? Any Idea ? this is reported but in maemo14:14
crashanddieatul, dbus-daemon --system14:14
lardmanWhat's the quickest way of doing an array comparison in C?14:17
crashanddieonly works if it's the same type though14:17
lardmanah yes, it is. Good stuff14:17
zapprovided your array doesnt have holes14:17
* hrw sent first not polite help mail to maemo-devs..14:18
lardmannah, will be same size & type14:18
* lardman awaits hrw's impolite help mail with baited breath :)14:18
zapif array elements are 3 bytes. it wont work14:18
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hrwlardman: it is not so hard one14:18
lardmanzap: how do you mean?14:19
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hrwlardman: padding to 4bytes14:19
lcukhow do i apply for tickets - thers no mail address or site on the sponsorship thingy14:19
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X-Fadelcuk: We are testing it now, will be available today..14:20
lardmanAh ok, not an issue, the data will be chars14:20
lcuk:) thx x-fade14:20
* lcuk is still shitting bricks14:20
zapfor chars memcmp is always the best14:20
aquatixlcuk: why?14:20
aquatixbecause you're putting a first version of something awesome online? ;)14:21
lcukwell if you had seen me last time i stood up in front of people you would know, but what i learnt *after* was why im trying again14:21
lardmanzap: cheers (am converting MATLAB code to C)14:21
lcukaquatix, its everything :) ty for compliment14:22
florianlardman: maybe start with converting matlab to octave ;)14:23
lardmanflorian: yeah, that's not enough of a challenge though :)14:23
aquatixlcuk: seriously looking forward to playing with it14:24
aquatixlcuk: i always get sahara-mouthed when in front of people too ;)14:24
lardmanhrw: Must be quite some lag on the list, I've still not seen your email14:26
lardmanor lag on my email server of course14:26
wizalardman: so how is the dsp stuff for a2dp coming? =)14:26
lardmanwiza: oh yeah, I've just finished the tweaks, need to compile and see if it runs14:26
lardmanwiza: It was running, but too slowly, so I've changed the central (called lots of times) fn. to use DSP instriniscs and Q15 arithmetic14:27
hrwlardman: nevermind14:28
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wizalardman: I recall that it was slow14:29
lardmanwiza: I'll compile it at lunch time and push the changes, then I imagine there'll be some fixing to do before it actually works14:29
wizano hurry :D14:31
lardmanwiza: I'd like to get it finished and get on with other things :)14:32
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johnxso much cool software getting released these days :)14:35
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RST38hjohnx: Like Modest?14:35
johnxlike lardman's sbc-on-dsp and lcuk's liqbase14:36
aquatixanybody knows whether telepathy is frequently updated? the latest maemo packages are over 6 months old14:36
* aquatix has a buglet in modest btw14:36
RST38hjohnx: They finally released? =)!!!14:36
hrwaquatix: as they are in system image they will probably not be updated14:36
aquatixevery time i open the window, the left list is a bit wider14:36
johnx"getting released" as in "in the process" :)14:37
aquatixhrw: hm, i installed collabora haze14:37
crashanddiesay guys14:37
RST38hgetting being released then =)14:37
lardmanyeah, WIP is more like it :)14:37
* johnx installed the modest beta for chinook14:37
crashanddiewho should I talk to if I want to point out a cheap flight service ? (for Maemo Summit)14:37
johnxhasn't screwed up on me yet14:37
RST38hcrash: A PR company?14:37
aquatixjohnx: on diablo?14:38
RST38hmaybe this is what I have to do...14:38
aquatixmight try that too14:38
crashanddieRST38h, eh ?14:38
johnxI had to let it overwrite a file as the packaging is done differently14:38
GeneralAntillesHopefully the beta repo will be updated for Diablo soon.14:38
johnxand don't come crying to me if it eats all your mail or something14:38
* aquatix uses imaps14:39
aquatixand used the beta on chinook14:39
johnxme too, just sayin :)14:39
aquatixheh, fair enough14:39
johnxalso, used a2dp all day today in canola14:39
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johnxhad maybe about 10 skips in 2 hours14:39
lardmanjohnx: have you got it working again for you?14:39
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lardmanwhat was the problem?14:40
johnxit was the same error you posted to maemo-developers14:40
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johnxI don't know :/14:40
lardmanah ok14:40
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johnxand it went away after a power cycle on my headphones and tablet14:40
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lardmanreboot :)14:40
johnxsometimes my headphones do tend to crash O_o14:40
crashanddiepromise, I'll ask 'em to stop14:40
johnxyou crashed my headphones?14:40
aquatixGeneralAntilles: the modest one?14:41
aquatixGeneralAntilles: or for telepathy?14:41
GeneralAntilleser, Modest14:41
GeneralAntillesYou guys might try the svn for Modest14:41
GeneralAntillesSupposedly a lot has been at least partially fixed.14:41
johnxah, that's a good idea14:41
aquatixGeneralAntilles: you recommended collabora to me right?14:41
aquatixGeneralAntilles: cool14:41
GeneralAntillesYeah, I don't follow Telepathy at all, though.14:41
aquatixwas wondering when they where going to update again14:42
GeneralAntillesRobot101, if anybody, would be the one to ask.14:42
aquatixa diablo modest weekly would be cool indeed :)14:42
aquatixRobot101: ping ;)14:42
* RST38h wonders when Pidgin is going to get upgraded...14:42
aquatix[sorry for nagging]14:42
Robot101aquatix: hola14:43
GeneralAntillesSomebody who sucks less than Navi and qwerty12 needs to get the MicroB svn compiled.14:43
johnxgood workout for scratchbox14:43
johnxas soon as I find libosso-abook-dev14:43
aquatixRobot101: i was wondering whether telepathy receives updates14:43
aquatixGeneralAntilles: *g*14:43
RST38hGA: BTW, I did thorough checking of browserd yesterday14:43
aquatixGeneralAntilles: is that with newer gecko btw?14:44
Robot101aquatix: yes, there's a lot of development, but do you specifically mean packages for diablo :)14:44
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aquatixRobot101: yups ;)14:44
RST38hGA: Looks like it is eating6-7MB of RAM when it is resident14:44
aquatixRobot101: i have it installed, but those are from december last year iirc14:44
Robot101aquatix: we need to check with nokia and arrange to do the builds for diablo14:44
aquatixah, k14:44
GeneralAntillesRST38h, that's about what I was seeing with htop.14:45
aquatixbtw, my jabber accounts stopped working when i installed collabora stuff14:45
aquatixthey won't connect14:45
aquatixwhich is weird, as they worked fine, and also with the rtcomm beta i had in chinook14:45
RST38hGA: Same here (with htop)14:45
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RST38hAbout the same amount is taken by resident Modest. I am not sure if it is actually doing something or just hanging there though.14:46
Robot101aquatix: stopped working? that's very weird14:46
Robot101aquatix: can you get a log?14:46
RST38hTurned off background mail checks but Modest is still in memory14:46
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aquatixRobot101: lets see...14:46
Robot101aquatix: has some information14:47
Robot101aquatix: the gabble debug log is the most interesting14:47
Robot101(you can sign off, run LM_DEBUG=xxx GABBLE_DEBUG=xx GABBLE_PERSIST=... from xterm, then see what gabble says when you try to sign in)14:48
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aquatixRobot101: hm, odd, some of them work, some don't14:58
aquatixi thought all didn't work14:58
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aquatixgtalk one works, but i have an account on that doesn't14:59
aquatixworked with chinook and rtcomm beta14:59
aquatixbut it doesn't work in pidgin too14:59
aquatixso it's weird anyway14:59
Robot101maybe it just broke at the same time?14:59
aquatixnot sure, but it worked in rtcomm beta while it didn't in pidgin at the same time15:00
* aquatix is a bit confused now15:00
Robot101do they have broken SRV records?15:00
aquatixdoes collabora haze use libpurple for xmpp?15:00
aquatixhow do i check?15:00
Robot101it should use gabble for XMPP15:00
aquatixit does15:01
aquatixi just wasn't sure what gabble was :)15:01
hrwguys - who will be on guadec?15:01
aquatixServer uses XEP-0078 (jabber iq auth) instead of SASL15:01
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aquatixconnection_auth_cb: failed15:01
aquatixi have the right pw and stuff15:02
Robot101oh, yeah. if the server claims to do XMPP 1.0, and doesn't actually, then a) it sucks and b) diablo's version of loudmouth doesn't have a workaround for that flavour of breakage15:02
aquatixah :)15:03
aquatixlikely it sucks indeed15:03
aquatixknowing that network15:03
* aquatix tries with amessage.info15:03
aquatixwhich has troubles with pidgin too15:03
aquatixoh cool, that one works on my n810 even though it talks about the ssl certificate having a mismatching name15:05
aquatixhm, it keeps reconnecting15:07
* aquatix notes he's spamming the chan a bit15:07
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hrwlunch time15:13
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GeneralAntillesGuess we need Flash 10 on Maemo for v4l215:21
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inzaquatix, telepaty-haze does use libpurple, gabble uses libloudmouth15:29
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mgedminspeaking about conferences, anyone coming to EuroPython?15:30
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aquatixinz: check15:31
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crashanddieanyone know if there's gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ported to the maemo platform ?15:33
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Avecrashanddie: afaicr it is available15:37
lardmandoes that include vorbis?15:37
lardmanif so, it just compiles, no porting needed15:37
crashanddieyeah well, by porting I mean compiled/packaged15:37
lardmanaargh, bt headset battery is flat15:38
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Avegstreamer0.10-plugins-base-ogg - Collection of GStreamer plugins for OGG15:41
Avegstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-ivorbis - GStreamer plugin for Tremor15:41
Avetheres multiple vorbis-libraries and I don't know whats different between them15:42
Aveand none currently use dsp like the mp3-side does15:43
lardmanhmm, on the sbc front, the output is different, which might be a loss in precision, but more likely indicates a mistake15:43
lardmanheadphones are charging, I'll see if I can head anything this evening15:43
kulveAve: no dsp support for ogg15:45
Avekulve: ever?15:45
lardmankulve: unless someone wants to help debug a buffer problem that is15:45
Avesomeone from here was digging the dsp stuff as is15:45
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lardmanAve: me15:46
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Avegotcha :P15:47
lardmanand others including kulve15:47
lardmanAve: Take a look at the dsp-tremor garage project mailing list15:47
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lardmanhmm, headphones came to life for a minute, just got a burst of noise, so some problem in my tweaks :)15:51 down for anyone else ?15:53
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lardmanplease feel free to take a look and tell me if you see anything wrong:
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, yes.15:54
Avelardman: seems quite hairy to say the least15:55
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lardmanAve: I'm sure the error will be simple enough, it's got to be somewhere in the _sbc_analyze_eight()/_sbc_analyze_four() fns or the tables of constants15:56
Aveare we talking about integer overflow somewhere or what kind of problem15:59
lardmanCould be integer overflow, I also am worried about the matrix dimensions15:59
lardmanwhether I've placed the dimensions the right way round15:59
lardman2D arrays are an array of pointers to 1D arrays?16:00
lardmanin which case, I wonder if the 2D matrices I've created get padded; I read into them manually (as 1D arrays)16:00
lardmanor are 2D arrays actually just allocated as array(1st_dim_size*2nd_dim_size)?16:01
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* lardman 's pocket C reference doens't have enough detail16:04
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mgedminlardman: 2D arrays are allocated in a single contiguous block16:05
lardmanActually I could change the code easily to use 2d array references16:05
lardmanmgedmin: ah cool, thanks16:05
mgedminin row-major form, I think it's called16:05
lardmanwhich array elements are contiguous? the last dimension?16:05
crashanddiemgedmin, 502 Server Error16:06
crashanddiethe irony16:06
lardmanok, will have to check, that's what I had thought, but I may have still made a mistake16:06
mgedminarray[row][col] = *(&array + row * row_width  + col)16:06
lardmanmgedmin: thanks16:07
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hrwlardman: going to guadec?16:11
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lardmanhrw: no, am pretty busy; away to Chicago later in the month16:14
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lcukhrw, does openmoko have an x11 driver (and xv library?)16:18
hrwlcuk: yes - it is x11 based still16:19
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lcukdoes the hardware support YUV format? ;)16:19
* lcuk could do with getting his head into it and having a looksee16:20
lcuklardman, arrays are normall [ y * XMax + x ]    so for a 800*480 grid you do Y*800+x16:21
lardmanhmm, so the first dimension is contiguous then?16:21
* GeneralAntilles should unsubscribe from -users already.16:22
lardmanGeneralAntilles: I've got it set to digest and it goes straight to storage16:22
GeneralAntillesIt's worse than itT16:22
lardmanlcuk: heading back to work, but I'll see what you write in the meantime16:23
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lcukarray[y][x] normally if i remember rightly, but i havent used that format for years, i just allocate a single array and do the indexing like i said originally16:24
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lcukgrrr @ his quick exits ;)16:24
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lcukmgedmin, did we just say the same thing (with yours first)16:25
GeneralAntillesThere's just so much bad advice flying around on -users that I can't help but step in. <_<16:25
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lcukGeneralAntilles, what you mean16:27
* lcuk tries to stay out of the way of mailing lists and doesnt know where most are16:28
GeneralAntilles-users has sort of the same retarded tone as itT, but with very few intelligent voices to ameliorate the stupidity.16:28
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GeneralAntillesWoo, lower /. uid than lcuk. :P16:33
lcukwhy where are you gen?16:34
GeneralAntilles500k something16:34
GeneralAntillesI don't ever post, though.16:34
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wizalittle under 600k on /. :D16:35
lcukbut ive wrote a shed load more comments than you :P16:35
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lcukand for the first time in about 5 years have mod points16:36
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GeneralAntillesI get mod points all the time, don't use them much16:36
RST38hSlashdot has ALSO got a blog engine?!?16:36
lcukits had the zoo for ages16:36
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glassRST38h: the journal thing has been in there for ages.. like 8 years or so16:37
RST38hOh, the horror...16:37
lcukthey can be submitted as articles as well if required.  :) visibility and good things for the nokia tablets can only be a good thing16:37
VeggenI was only 1855 registrations too late to get a 4 digit slashdot uid.16:37
lcuki was only 600000 too late16:37
glassi stopped reading/commenting at slashdot regularly at some point years and years ago16:38
* lcuk curses missing the boat16:38
glassgot some 2500comments / excellent karma16:38
lcuki stopped regularly posting sometime in december, i wonder why16:38
glasssome fans too! :)16:38
* lcuk strokes his 81016:38
Veggen(1856, infact, since my uid is 11855)16:38
RST38hlcuk <--- betrayed slashdot for itt!16:38
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lcuk LiquidCoooled's Latest 24 of 4672 Comments16:38
Andy80hi all16:39
glasssome 40 fans to be exact, "yay"16:39
RST38hSlashdot is filled with really dull geek people though. Switched to TheRegister as my news source years ago.16:39
Andy80has Maemo-pc-connectivity been substituted by the "USB Networking" applet?16:39
VeggenI don't comment very often, tho, as I have only 62 comments in total :)16:39
Veggen(but excellent karma, so obviously people like it when I comment)16:40
glassit's pretty easy to learn to do comments that get modded +516:40
lcukits an artform to get +5 troll though :)16:40
* hendry wonders why there isn't any diablo liveCDs. takes AGES to setup an SDK currently... :(16:40
glasshah yeah16:40
RST38hlcuk: Not really, those guys luck any sense of humor16:41
lcukhendry, ive seen one linux vmware image, but it was console only i think16:41
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lcukanyway, back later, thought it was time to explain where the lc comes from :)16:41
lcukplenty of folks have asked and assumed it was a typo, but i live in the uk16:42
RST38hwill you change it if you move though?16:42
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lcukive gotten used to it16:44
lcukdamn, im closing vnc from home end, back at 616:44
aquatixbesides, lcnl isn't pronouncable ;)16:44
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aquatix[or aren't you moving here ;)]16:45
aquatixlcuk: ok, cya16:45
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RST38haquatix: To Niue you mean?16:47
andre__timelyx, figuring out a plan for garage in bugs.maemo does not make sense if nearly no developer wants to move to bugs.maemo16:48
andre__at least so far the feedback was... not much16:48
GeneralAntillesandre__, start by poking some of them directly?16:48
aquatixRST38h: niwha? .nl = the netherlands16:48
RST38h*** aquatix is  <===16:48
aquatixdon't mind that hostname :)16:49
andre__heh... some is good... well, for me it's clear that it's up to them to decide, and not me actively pushing it16:49
aquatixit's even hosted here in .nl16:49
GeneralAntillesI would actively push it.16:49
GeneralAntillesI think the vast majority of people are apathetic16:49
RST38haquatix: aka Rock of Polinesia16:49
GeneralAntillesBut the net result for the community will be a very positive one16:49
GeneralAntillesand it's something I'd like to see move forward.16:49
andre__hmm, understand16:50
aquatixRST38h: yeah, i know it16:50
GeneralAntillesandre__, I think some others may be in a sort of "where's the beef?" state16:50
GeneralAntillesSo I wouldn't take the lack of response too negatively.16:50
GeneralAntillesA good step would probably be to figure out the dozen or so top projects in the garage tracker and talk to their developers directly.16:51
GeneralAntillesI'm sure a lot of them don't follow itT16:51
GeneralAntillessome may not follow -developers, and it's easy to lose a thread in there.16:52
andre__hmm, okay...16:52
sp3001what he manes it's easy to get naked in -developers.16:52
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sp3001...or something else.16:52
sp3001means even.16:53
andre__not really :)16:53
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: some may not follow -developers, and it's easy to lose a threads in there.16:53
RST38hGA: Some may not even want to have a bugtracker16:53
andre__reminds me of postgres. unbelievable16:53
RST38hGA: 'Cause it implies extra time needed to manage bug records16:53
GeneralAntillesRST38h, of course, which is why the bugzilla use should be opt-in.16:53
RST38hno argument there16:54
RST38hLet us put it this way: you may want to start by persuading projects that already HAVE bugtrackers to move to bugs.maemo.org16:54
GeneralAntillesActually, I think all gforge features should be opt-in for new projects.16:54
RST38hAnd of course this implies having to have a painless way to migrate bug reports16:55
andre__GeneralAntilles, I wonder whether it's possible to deactivate the GForge bug tracker at all16:55
GeneralAntillesWell, we need a system in place at bugzilla for handling garage bug tracking first.16:55
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GeneralAntillesandre__, I think so, but dunno.16:55
andre__yes, the painless migration way is missing16:55
RST38hShouldn't be difficult, pretty much a specialized PERL or Python script16:55
andre__no, garage bugs should be cleaned up *before* importing them to bugs.maemo16:55
andre__the modest guys made this in a very easy (and maybe a bit rude) way: closing all tickets in garage, and asking to report to bugs.maemo if it still exists16:56
GeneralAntillesOh, is the Modest tracker finally done for?16:56
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mgedminand they migrated old bugs using the CADT model16:57
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I'd be happy to volunteer to help triage and migrate bugs from tracker to bugzilla.16:57
RST38hGA: That is a LOT of bugs16:58
GeneralAntillesNot really16:58
GeneralAntillesMost of them are 770 backport bugs16:58
GeneralAntillesand I'm talking volunteering on a project-by-project basis.16:58
RST38hThose may go, right?16:58
GeneralAntillesIf a dev wants help migrating, I'll volunteer. ;016:58
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: If a dev wants help migrating, I'll volunteer. ;)16:58
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andre__hmm. lots of things to discuss next week with Karsten wehen we both meet physically at guadec... sigh :)17:00
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GeneralAntillesBarring any particularly vocal objection from any of the garage devs, a certain amount of "what's good for the community" should be factored into the decision to push the bugzilla move, and bugzilla is definitely that. ;)17:03
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hendryi have diablo scratchbox 1 going. i'm unsure how to share library headers with the host system. any clues? symlinking into  /scratchbox/host_shared doesn't work17:07
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zuhhendry: Bind-mounting is the way, symlinks to outside world don't work within sb due to chrooting and other black magic17:11
GeneralAntillesDid Maemo Mapper make it into Diablo Extras yet?17:12
hrwheh.. I am unable to draw few circles with same center point..17:12
hendryzuh: can you give me an example of a bind mount?17:12
zuhmount -o bind /mydir /someotherdir17:13
zuhafter that mydir == someotherdir (wrt contents)17:13
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hendryzuh: you do this outside the scratchbox/chroot right? can you give an example mounting host's /usr/lib/java17:17
zuhyes, outside.17:18
zuhSo you want to mount something under your target?17:18
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zuhmkdir /scratchbox/users/whatever/targets/770/usr/lib/java ; sudo mount -o bind /usr/lib/java /scratchbox/users/whatever/targets/770/usr/lib/java17:20
zuheh, 770 == the name of the scratchbox target17:20
hendryand to preserve these mounts, you put them in fstab?17:21
zuhfor example, yes17:21
zuhI have lines like '/mnt/storage/home /home none defaults,bind 0 0' there17:22
hendryzuh: kiittos17:22
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GeneralAntillesGreat picture:
* crashanddie high 5's qwerty12 17:28
* qwerty12 returns the high 5 :)17:29
pupnik  love this song *so* much - and the Brothers Quay video to it17:29
pekuja"drug"? isn't the proper past tense of "drag" "dragged"?17:32
pekujaI had to wonder for a while what that sentence meant17:32
pekuja"is the cat taking drugs? what does this mean?"17:32
pupniki dunno17:32
qwerty12Meh, if my cat brought in weed, I'd buy a shitload of cat treats for him.17:33
pupniki think it's poetic license - drug in sounds better17:33
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GeneralAntillesIt's US usage.17:33
qwerty12Actually in my language, achaa roughly translates to ahh, I see :)17:34
qwerty12Maybe not that one :P17:35
qwerty12I have 2 hours before I get shouted at :P. May as well release the kernel with fixed n800 touchscreen in android in that time.17:36
pupnikthere's a Brothers Quay dvd collection that's quite um.. well... appropriate for watching with a high fever17:36
pekujahow's android today? is it actually usable for stuff?17:37
pekujathere are no devices shipping with it yet, correct?17:37
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qwerty12The version on tablets is quite an old one (m3), the latest runs but due to the suckiness of the shitty epson lcd controller, it doesn't run that great.17:37
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m-cqwerty12: I was very happy to get to see android, thank ye!17:40
pupnikeh, what's it doing, fullscreen refreshes for no reason?17:40
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qwerty12m-c, it's penguinbait's work too :)17:41
qwerty12pupnik, something like that. the epson controller doesn't support page flipping, something like that17:41
hendryi don't understand DIABLO_X86. why would you want to build under DIABLO_x86? why not just use the host environment?17:41
qwerty12You don't build. It's for testing.17:41
hendryqwerty12: how so?17:42
pupnikyeah but.. why not test the arm build itself17:42
qwerty12hendry, For example, you can't use dsptasks under diablo_armel17:42
pupnikoh there's some debugging you can do under x86 i think, if you're hardcore in that17:42
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crashanddiehrw|gone, cheers mate17:50
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GNUtonHi there17:57
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crashanddiefirst time I have an update warning18:00
Talus_n810anyone here developing ?18:01
qwerty12developing what?18:01
crashanddiequite a few in fact :)18:01
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, update all is bliss18:01
crashanddieah, no, sorry18:02
crashanddieI don't develop cool18:02
Talus_n810i'm starting with the toturials18:02
crashanddieTalus_n810, are you a programmer ?18:02
crashanddieTalus_n810, or just starting out ?18:02
Talus_n810i'm a programmer18:02
crashanddieok :)18:02
Talus_n810just new to maemo stuff18:03
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* qwerty12 is somewhat halfway. I can't program but I wrote a quick program in python and I hack around with the kernel a bit. So I dunno what I am :P18:03
crashanddiea hacker ?18:03
crashanddiejust not a code guru18:03
qwerty12crashanddie, yeah :). I've done so much stuff to my N800, heh :D18:03
qwerty12(and paid the reflashing price >.<)18:04
Talus_n810i just have this n810 2 days18:04
crashanddieTalus_n810, updated to diablo ?18:04
crashanddieok :)18:04
Talus_n810up and running18:04
Talus_n810i'll be developing m-health system into the n81018:05
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eichi__is there somethink like a "repo-rss" ?18:07
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GeneralAntillesandre__, I wonder if it'd be worth putting together a pilot in order to pique some interest.18:23
pekujadunno if caffeine has destroyed any18:23
qwerty12Sniff, No one with N810 and android?18:23
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qwerty12(No pun intended)18:23
Talus_n810that would be nice18:23
RST38hpekuja: "legal" amphetamines have, though18:23
crashanddieI hardly consider myself a "user". I'd just say I'm someone who knows about it, I'm educated in it, educated enough so that I could make an educated decision.18:24
crashanddieAnd to be honest, I've seen way more lives destroyed because of alcohol than weed, or any other kind of drugs18:24
lardmansounds like me a C++18:24
crashanddielardman, hahahahaha18:25
crashanddiebtw, topic should be updated, we're hardly July 1st anymore18:26
crashanddieand that, no matter what timezone :P18:26
GeneralAntillesdneary's job18:27
GeneralAntillesAnybody see pagerate and pageview in Extras?18:27
qwerty12No, what does it do?18:27
qwerty12Oh wait.18:27
GeneralAntillesInstalling now.18:28
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* RST38h seen them18:29
andre__GeneralAntilles, it can never hurt :)18:31
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GeneralAntillesandre__, any Nokia-vetting involved with that?18:32
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andre__how do you mean?18:33
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GeneralAntillesIs a pilot program something that's just a technical issue, or is there Nokia approval involved?18:33
andre__err.... ok. explain first what exactly you understand under "pilot program" then :)18:34
GeneralAntillesPick a garage project, and set up a section in bugzilla for it.18:34
GeneralAntillesSo, let's take extra-cauldron, what needs doing to get that into bugzilla?18:34
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andre__well, if the devs want to move away from garage, okay. but we also need to think about component structure, and default assignee policy and so on18:35
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GeneralAntillesand, by pilot, I mean a test program with a single garage project to show developers how it might work.18:36
andre__you see,i'm not yet that totally motivated yet as long as there's stuff to work out :)18:37
andre__modest? :-D18:37
GeneralAntillesHehe, too late.18:37
GeneralAntillesand that's shipped on-device18:37
GeneralAntillesso it's not a Garage project, really. :P18:37
andre__it was two months ago :)18:37
GeneralAntillesStill not quite the same, though.18:38
GeneralAntillesAs it's a Nokia project.18:38
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andre__hmm, right18:38
andre__another issue is that it makes it harder for me to do statistics and reports, because nokia of course wants to differentiate maemo bug data between "core products" (own responsibility) and community ones18:39
andre__latter one is really something that Karsten will comment on, that's more his area18:39
GeneralAntillesDo the classifications timeless mentioned help with that?18:40
crashanddieWell, I'm going to work out a bit, then shower, and then workshop night, see ya later guys18:40
andre__hmm, a bit18:40
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GeneralAntillesLater, crashanddie.18:41
GeneralAntillesWhy's guenther failing so much at idling these days? :P18:41
andre__i'm also going to be away in half an hour :)18:42
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Talus_n810anyone here had problems with g_ether driver in ubuntu?18:43
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GeneralAntillesAnyway, I know you were looking for more response before pushing a wiki task, but mind if I go ahead and do that?18:44
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andre__GeneralAntilles, go ahead!18:45
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andre__as long as you explicitly mention that it's work and thoughts in progress, i'd owe you a beer at maemo summit for doing this :)18:46
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* andre__ also tries to repair a violin in real life, beside trying to catch up with irc conversations :-D18:47
GeneralAntillesViolin repair?18:48
GeneralAntillesThat sounds difficult18:48
wazdpatching kernel sounds the same xD18:48
andre__yeah, thought today of bringing it to a professional, but then i thought: hmm, why not try first :)18:48
RST38hA violin cannot be backed up18:48
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RST38hOr versioned, for this matter18:49
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GeneralAntillesI'm with RST38h here. :P18:49
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wazdpity :)18:49
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andre__hah! i can still remove my version if it does not work and let a professional recompile the violin :-P18:50
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RST38hThe destruction process is way more satisfying than rm -rfing it...18:55
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GeneralAntillesHrm, what should I call this? "Task:Bugzilla and Garage" or "Task:Community bug tracking in Bugzilla"? Or any other suggestions?19:03
GeneralAntillesor maybe "Task:Garage bug tracking in Bugzilla"19:04
andre__Moving from Garage tracker to Bugzilla?19:06
andre__"Task:Garage bug tracking in Bugzilla" also sounds good19:06
andre__and my violin works. whoot. i need to blog :-)19:06
GeneralAntillesmoar bloging!19:06
* GeneralAntilles cracks the whip.19:07
GeneralAntillesGoing with Garage bug tracking in Bugzilla19:07
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Talus_n810cheers mates, i'll be back later19:14
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GeneralAntillesAlright, it's started: will flesh out some details and issues later.19:26
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timelessok, i think one thing you'll need/want is to upgrade bugzilla19:31
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timelesssadly, my computer is busy watering the weeds, so i can't type particularly quickly :(19:32
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timelessactually, i'm wrong19:34
timelessclassifications are available19:34
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timelessGeneralAntilles: would you like to see this?19:35
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* crashanddie is tired20:01
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eichi__is there something like a rss file for the maemo repo?20:12
crashanddielaterz !20:13
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johnxeichi__, that's a good question actually. I think the answer is no, but a script to generate an rss feed from a releases file would be neat20:15
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*** foka has joined #maemo20:19 compiles will expand to take over any machine I have a shell on :D20:19
inzeichi, johnx, I think there is one, that was just transferred to rm_you, dunno if he's got it up yet tho20:20
johnxaaah, right, the pack rat feed aggregator20:20
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johnxI didn't know it could generate an RSS feed though20:20
* johnx searches the logs20:20
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ion_cu_vacahi all20:33
ion_cu_vacaquestion about /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/cal_mac_address20:33
ion_cu_vacaif I replace the mac value in cal_mac_address with $(cat /home/user/MyDocs/mac.txt)20:34
ion_cu_vacaand have a mac address in mac.txt, will that brick my n800 or that should work fine?20:35
johnxprobably won't brick it20:35
johnxyou probably just want to change it early at boot though20:36
johnxor do you want to change it constantly?20:36
ion_cu_vacayes, and I'm changing (same way) in /etc/init.d/rcS20:36
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ion_cu_vacaifconfig wlan0 down hw ether $(cat /home/user/MyDocs/mac.txt)20:37
ion_cu_vacaifconfig wlan0 up20:37
ion_cu_vacaand that works20:37
ion_cu_vacabut in cal_mac_address I still have the mac unchanged20:37
ion_cu_vacaok, I'll try it :-)20:39
johnxalso, echoing to that file seems to make my MAC address 30:30:3A:30:30:3A20:39
johnxand I lose my connection to my AP of course too20:39
johnxI'm about 99% sure that playing around with  /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/cal_mac_address won't do anything permanent20:40
johnxideally you'd want to change it in the hidden NAND partition20:40
johnxI think someone managed to get enough access to recover lost lock codes, so maybe that's a place to start20:40
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tank-manbetter not use my mac address20:41
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johnxwhat is it? 00:00:DE:AD:BE:EF ?20:41
ion_cu_vacatank-man, I'm using random generated20:41
johnxor 00:00:C0:FF:EE ?20:41
johnxwhere's the fun in randomly generated20:41
tank-manis this for the wayfinder map?20:42
johnxah, I thought this was something fun, like security testing...20:42
ion_cu_vacathe old version of map works if you just change the mac with ifconfig20:43
ion_cu_vacabut the new one is testing the mac in /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/cal_mac_address20:43
johnxwouldn't it be easier to do a string replace in the binary to have it read a different file?20:44
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ion_cu_vacamodifying the exe is stealing20:45
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tank-manfuzzy line you walk there20:46
GeneralAntillesIs there a line?20:46
johnxJohnny Cash says yes20:47
MouseyJohnny Cash is dead20:47
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johnxand now ion_cu_vaca walks the line, though not as musically20:47
lcuklbt, are you knocking about and since you have a bit of nounce about git is there any possibility that you could get git compiled for n8x0?20:48
GreyFoxxAnyone here using any of those foldable bluetooth keyboards?20:49
GreyFoxxI'm thinking of picking one up20:49
tank-mani have the apple bt one20:50
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GreyFoxxtank: A foldable one? I didn't know they made them.20:52
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tank-manno, just normal flat one20:52
GreyFoxxheh ok :)20:52
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GreyFoxxI'm looking for something foldable to stuff in my backpack pocket20:52
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ion_cu_vacawell, i replaced the mac from /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/cal_mac_address with $(cat /home/user/MyDocs/mac.txt), but after the reboot, in cal_mac_address I still have the n800's original mac20:53
ion_cu_vacaany ideas how to get a fake value in /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/cal_mac_address20:54
johnxit's set by cal, so maybe do a string edit of *that* binary to look someplace besides NAND for the MAC?20:56
lcukGreyFoxx, i heard of a swap 800 for 810 program from some development company20:59
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lcukooops, closed now21:00
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* ScreamingN800 loves the new bigger *writeable* initfs in Diablo21:02
ion_cu_vacajohnx, where is cal?21:02
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johnxion_cu_vaca, /mnt/initfs21:03
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johnx'cal' is the name of the thing, but not necessarily the file you need to edit21:03
ScreamingN800FINALLY! We can have ext3 filesystems booting. Journalling forever!21:03
* johnx has been using ext3 as a bootable FS for months now21:04
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ion_cu_vacawell, what's the file?21:04
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johnxion_cu_vaca, there are a lot of files involved, find the one with the string you're interested in :)21:04
johnxI really haven't looked into this21:04
* qwerty12_N800 perks on cal. i looked into it a little bit21:05
ScreamingN800johnx is a smart bu**er --- Needs a tiny patch to /mnt/initfs/linuxrc21:05
johnxnah, I just used fanoush's little bootmenu modification21:06
pupnikGreyFoxx: i have the Thinkoutside Stowaway and i think it's excellent21:06
ScreamingN800Which you no longer need now /mnt/initfs can be mounted writeable21:06
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ScreamingN800Just mount -o remount,rw /mnt/initfs and use you fave editor21:07
johnxfair enough21:08
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johnxI thought he made the bootmenu a little nice or something though21:08
qwerty12_N800cal isn't in initfs. it's not even a filesystem.21:08
johnxqwerty12_N800, hmm? what's not an FS?21:08
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GreyFoxxpup: cool :)21:09
qwerty12_N800cal :). it's part of config partition21:09
johnxbut there's also the things that access cal from initfs21:09
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qwerty12_N800i guess wlancond reads value of wlan mac from cal and sets it there21:09
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qwerty12_N800but if you know how to edit cal itself, initfs is irrelevant21:10
johnxright, but all he care's about is the entry in /sys, not the actual mac address used for networking21:11
johnxmodest built BTW, any takers?21:11
ScreamingN800johnx: No longer needed, (though nice). I just added a line "mount /dev/$root_dev -t ext3 -o rw,noatime,nodiratime /mnt/new_root" into mount_device and Bob is you mothers brother21:11
ion_cu_vacaqwerty12, so, where and what should I modify to get a fake mac in /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/cal_mac_address?21:11
infobotScreamingN800 meant: johnx: No longer needed, (though nice). I just added a line "mount /dev/$root_dev -t ext3 -o rw,noatime,nodiratime /mnt/new_root" into mount_device and Bob is you're mothers brother21:12
qwerty12_N800ion_cu_vaca, you can't :(. the format of the cal isn't reversed.21:12
qwerty12_N800here are my notes on it :
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johnxright, and since it's poking at a raw NAND system, not a file there's no string to replace21:13
qwerty12_N800it's probably easier to reverse the map app itself and get it to read another file21:13
* johnx made a mistake :)21:13
johnxwhich is what I suggested in the first place :)21:14
ion_cu_vacayeah, johnx :-)21:14
ScreamingN800While I am here, if anyone else has a MicroSD in the Kingston Micro-FullSize converter.21:14
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ion_cu_vacawhat editor should I use to try to edit a binary file? vi?21:15
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qwerty12_N800nope, an hex editor21:15
ScreamingN800Which is impossible to get of the slot having no thumbnail hole21:15
johnxhexedit is my choice21:15
qwerty12_N800if that fails, scream and load up ida21:16
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ScreamingN800A little Cellotape tag made by doubling the stuff after the end of the card works a treat.21:17
qwerty12_N800i'll take a look at the map app too, i never used the trial despite activating it21:17
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johnxanyways ion_cu_vaca, you're on your own from here :)21:18
ScreamingN800G'nite all and sundry21:18
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ion_cu_vacajohnx, I know and I think I'll give up for now. I don't have linux on my computer21:20
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qwerty12_N800you don't need linux :(21:21
johnxanyways, I'm off to bed anyways21:21
* johnx sleeps, lurks21:21
qwerty12_N800night :)21:22
johnx'night qwerty12_N80021:22
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ion_cu_vacatx johnx, gn.21:24
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qwerty12_N800hi crashanddie21:26
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qgilHi there21:37
qgilWe are going to announce the registration of the Maemo Summit right now21:37
qgilonly the time to put the links and write announcement & blog21:37
qgilyou have the link with the info above in the topic21:37
qgilthe registration form is here:
* lcuk waves21:38
qgilyou can follow who is registered at
qgilif you find any issue please report bugs to - Product Website component Calendar21:38
lcukqgil, do I have to mention my workplace even though this has NOTHING to do with them?21:38
qgilup to you21:38
qgilthis is just for information to others21:39
lcukfair enough21:39
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qgilplease ask all these questions in the wiki page, so we can answer there and all keeps well documented21:39
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lcuk:( @ my karma21:42
timelesscan i get someone to change the form21:43
timeless"The company that hires you"21:43
timelesss.b. /employs/21:43
timelessunless you can predict your next employer...21:43
* lcuk wants to21:44
qgiltimeless: there are typos that even myself can see  :)21:44
qgilfile bugs21:44
qgilI just didn't want to wait one day more21:44
qgiltomorrow I'm flying to GUADEC etc21:44
timelessqgil: but that'd be karma whoring :)21:44
timelessok, enjoy guadec21:44
* timeless tries to figure out what 'main volunteering project' means21:45
* timeless doesn't speak this form's language21:45
qgil... and now I will ignore your some time until I get all this up and ready  ;)21:45
lcukqgil, one thing, related to linuxtag: could you find out when the reimbursement will be due, the cc is maxed here...21:45
qgilshould be on its way, really21:45
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lcukok cool :) thx21:46
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lcuktimeless, i sussed it anyway, its what you are there to do/discuss/code/expand21:47
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lcukhow do i put my user and date in the wiki21:48
lcukits some combo of squiggles but i have no idea what21:49
timelesstypically ~~~~ or something, isn't there a preview button?21:49
lcukyer, ill see if it works - id tried 2 and 321:50
infobotARGH!!! STOP IT generalantilles!!!21:51
* infobot takes the cash and sucks generalantilles off21:51
GeneralAntillesIs funnier21:51
GeneralAntilles /much creepier21:51
qwerty12_N800sucks off sounds like it's giving heads21:51
* infobot gives generalantilles full service!21:52
qwerty12_N800oh shit :D21:52
timelessMidgard CMS21:53
timelessAccess denied21:53
qwerty12_N800infobot, you a boy or a girl?21:53
infobotI'm a transexual transvestite from transylvania.21:53
timelessit won't let me visit the registration page21:53
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lcuktimeless: DENIED21:54
* lcuk dances around cos he registered :P21:54
timelessBug 3388 Submitted21:56
qgiltimeless: appreciated21:56
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timelessqgil: i don't like karma whoring :)21:57
timelesson that note, i think i'll release a blog :)21:57
qgilmmm in fact it shouldn't show up there21:57
crashanddiehey qwerty12_N80021:57
qgilno, I asked for it but only internally so we could have it as additional value when going through sponsoring requests21:58
qwerty12_N800crashanddie, hi :)21:58
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timelessfwiw, i've updated and for people who don't recognize the terms :)22:02
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GeneralAntillesNice pictures22:04
timelessBug 3389 has been added to the database22:05
* timeless wishes someone would fix http://maemo.org22:05
timelessactually wait a second22:05
timelessi can fix :)22:05
qgilcan you please spam the maemo lists and ITt? I'm going to blog about this right now - thanks!22:06
qgilan one important thing: those of you having invested soooooo many hours in this beloved Maemo platform: please register22:07
qgil is for contributors like you, if that helps22:08
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JamieBennett:) Registered22:10
pupnik143 is great22:12
lcuk\o hi jaffa22:14
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Jaffaqgil: I need to investigate flights from London to Berlin and then Berlin to Amsterdam/Eindhoven. Fun fun fun.22:14
JamieBennettI was looking at flights from Bristol to Berlin, £57 return!22:15
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timelesspupnik: feel fre to vote for 145 when planet finds it :)22:17
timelessif 143 is still in planet archives, you can vote for it too :)22:17
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GeneralAntilleskarma whore!22:18
timelesshey, i deserve that karma! :)22:19
GeneralAntillesWhat is with crap like this? Spammy. . . .22:19
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timelesswhat is ?22:19
GeneralAntillesPlugin hosting website for Redline that I help setup and run
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* timeless sighs22:21
timelesssomeone really needs to move planet off maemo.org22:21
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RST38htimeless: I have checked memory consumption with htop22:23
qgilJamieBennett: please share also at
RST38htimeless: browserd takes 6-7MB on the average when nothing is running22:23
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timelessi think that's reasonable/expected22:23
RST38htimeless: Is there any way to make it quit after 5-15 minutes?22:23
timelessdoes browser start faster today than it did in chinook?22:24
RST38hnot really22:24
timelessthat's somewhat unforunate..22:24
bmidgle1how do you guys type a | into an n810?22:24
timelessmaemo: depends if you're using en-gb or en-us for the keylayout22:24
infobottimeless meant: bmidgle1: depends if you're using en-gb or en-us for the keylayout22:24
RST38hwell, it would be fortunate to be able to make browserd quit if it is not being used for more than n minutes22:24
timelessbut mostly you hit the &!ae button22:25
timelessrst38h: /maybe/22:25
aquatixbmidgle1: hit the Chr key22:25
aquatixand go on row down22:25
RST38hthe way it is right now though, it does not speed things up much while eating 6MB of RAM22:25
timelessrst38h: is that resident?22:25
bmidgle1thanks aquatix22:26
JamieBennettqgil: ok22:26
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bmidgle1is obexsrv part of the base os? I installed something before the diablo upgrade and i'm trying to debug obex connection failures...22:27
timelessbmidgle1: if it's open source, should answer the question22:28
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timelesswah, people voted against wile e coyote22:31
GeneralAntillesNot Warner Bros fans, I suppose.22:32
timelessi can't bury this item properly22:34
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* timeless sighs22:39
timelessgarage sucks22:39
timelessor planet sucks22:40
ricko73so Diablo is the way to go?22:40
lcukdont tell me that, im just trying to work out how to get my project into it22:40
bmidgle1diablo obex issues: obexsrv -l is being spawned on n810 but connecting from a trusted device fails22:40
bmidgle1from the hcidump, it looks like the n810 just drops the connection22:41
timelesslcuk: sorry, this isn't garage, it's a blog article *about* a garage :o22:41
lcuk:S oook22:41
* ricko73 could use a garage, about 20x22ft would be great22:42
bmidgle1strange, "-l" isn't a documented flag22:42
bmidgle1for obexsrv22:42
Jaffaqgil: presumably maemo summit registration is free, but doesn't get you into OSiM World for free? (Thinking, in particular about Ari's keynote)22:44
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JamieBennettOSim is 399 euros+tax for a developer22:45
JamieBennettI'll be there22:45
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JaffaAnyone know a cheap airline which operates between Amsterdam/Eindhoven and Berlin?22:46
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qgilJaffa: we still have to get a deal closed with the organizers22:46
qgilth developer sessions are entrance free22:47
qgilbut this is not enough22:47
Jaffaqgil: interesting22:47
qgil"developer registration" is """"only""""" 300€ or so22:47
qgila plan could be22:47
madhavgtk + xshm , how to use it?22:47
RST38himeless: yes22:47
JaffaJamieBennett/lorelei_: thanks. Additionally, anyone know which Berlin airport is best?22:47
qgila bunch of guys with full registration covered, those that (we could say) really deserve the best22:47
RST38htimeless: it reports 11MB resident browserd, but only 6-7MB are actually private22:48
madhavany one have an answer?22:48
lcukmadhav, do you want to sit gtk ontop of a shm bitmap or just want a shm memory block within a gtk app?22:48
qgilthen the rest a combination of dev sessions + the morning when ari has keynote22:48
qgilor something like that22:48
qgillet's see what they say22:48
lorelei_Jaffa: hmmm, actually AirBerlin doesn't do the Eindhoven-Berlin route..sorry :(22:48
Jaffaqgil: that'd be cool22:48
qgiland how many people requests sponsorship, how fits in our budget, how cheap flights and accommodation can be....22:48
JaffaIf I can find cheap enough flights, and a cheap hotel, I can probably get away without sponsorship22:49
madhavlcuk: i am basically looking for perf improvement..right now i am using pixbuf to show image for widget/window.. so thought using Xshm will improve perf (blitting would be better)22:49
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JamieBennettJaffa: I'm in the same boat, do it on the cheap if possible (OSim and Maemo summit)22:50
RST38hmadhav: it does improve things but not by much22:50
RST38hmadhav: direct fb access should be faster22:50
lcukmadhav, you will have trouble housing gtk within anything other than native x (from that i could gather)22:50
lcuksdl uses a shm buffer if i remember rightly but that doesnt even bring remarkable perf benefits22:51
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lcuki managed to sidestep the issue by using the xv library and writing as YUV22:51
madhavxv library?22:51
lcukyer, Xv overlay YUV bitplanes - what mplayer and the standard media player displays movies on (the only thing that moves quick...)22:52
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pupnikwill there be a maemo developers wet t-shirt competition?22:52
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JamieBennettJust bring the man boobs ;)22:53
* lcuk throws up22:53
madhavlcuk: i have gtk widgets with pixbuf images as bkground/icon...will that improve.. with YUV?22:53
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lcukwell, not unless you redesign SQL to use YUV, or adapt x11 to natively work in YUV or something like that22:54
lcuknot SQL - i meant GTK and/or SDL22:54
* lcuk has databases on his mind22:54
madhavSDL with directfb?? something like that?22:55
lcuknot really, the framebuffer cannot display fullscreen RGB data fast enough.  the only way round that is to lower the resolution (and solve the tearing issue) or screw everything and try YUV format22:56
lcuklook at my video i just posted to see where ive got up to22:56
lcuki will be releasing the source at some point (hopefully this evening if crashanddie hurries up ;)) but dont know if it will be generically useful at this point22:56
lcukahhh lbt :D just the person i need to see.  ...22:58
pupniki'll release a new emulator *you*know*when*22:58
wazdBack again :) Hello everybody :)22:58
crashanddiegimme a sec, I'm giving 'em an exercise22:58
lcukthats ok crashanddie, close your irc22:58
lcukpupnik, so you are comin?22:59
pupnikno i have no idea where'll i'll be in sept22:59
wazdi'm planning to part Moscow to the Maemo Summit right after Queen concert :)22:59
lbtI only stopped by to say hi - Mrs lbt is calling...22:59
* lcuk can see you riding across germany, laptop in hand "i got video out to work, it works, it works!"22:59
lbtwas it quick lcuk?23:00
pupnikkisses to mrs lbt from me23:00
madhavlcuk: i had a look at that did u achieve that perf..with xv YUV?23:00
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lbtpupnik: I'll enjoy that ;)23:00
wazdThe information about hotels is extremely useful btw23:00
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lcukyes lbt, if you could have a look at getting git compiled for nit i would be most appreciative23:00
lcuknot now obviously23:00
lbtOK - why not...23:00
lcukbut i havent got enough installed here and i cant get my vmware working23:00
lbton my todo then...23:00
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lcukexcellent :) you go and service mrs lbt :P :D23:01
lbtI 'ported' ddd the other day - absolute doddle - just worked23:01
lcukive got a feeling i could get git working, but it needs perl as one of its build steps23:01
lcukmadhav, yes23:01
lcuki wrote the entire rendering engine, from pixels to rectangles to lines to font glyph blitting23:02
lcukand all the classes on top23:02
* lcuk has tired fingers23:02
lbthmm - I wish SDK+ wasn't dead - that uses host apps.... still...23:02
* lbt has gone now23:02
madhavlcuk: have u tried SDL with opengl backend?23:03
lcukhow would that help?23:03
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madhavX gets accelerated with GPU i guess..23:05
lcukwicked! i didnt know that23:05
lcukawww man, theres me working my fingers to the bone when i couldv just done that :P23:05
JamieBennettgit in scratchbox, yeah, done23:05
lcukwe dont have drivers on this device for the powervr hardware on our machine23:06
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RST38hmadhav: the short story is that opengl in maemo is currently not accelerated23:07
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madhavRST38h: how about direct fb?23:08
RST38hdirect fb is faster than going through gtk but it is not accelerated either23:08
qwerty12_N800that sucks too :/23:08
lcukqwerty12_N800, what res is android running in?23:08
qwerty12_N800lcuk, no idea :/23:09
lcukcos theres a yt vid of a rotating cube23:09
wazd800x480 I think23:09
wazddidn't noticed quaded-pixels23:09
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lcuki cant see single pixels anyway so i wouldnt know23:10
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wazdis ther eany screenshot software?)23:10
wazdIt might give an answer)23:10
qwerty12_N800for android?23:10
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glassandroid on what device?23:11
glassprobably the native 800x480.. i'd guess23:11
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qwerty12_N800i don't know for android, i don't think it's meant to allow direct access to things.23:12
glassit's meant to limit to their javalike vm23:12
wazdyep, maps software looks very sharp23:12
wazdso I think it's native23:12
RST38hbtw, does android run normal midp apps?23:12
glassbut still, it runnin on other than native reso would sound weird23:12
glassRST38h: well.. sorta no23:12
lcuknot really, none native res on this device looks fine23:13
lcukie 640*480 is indistinguishable23:13
glassRST38h: they'll have to ship a midp vm with the devices to be taken seriously..23:13
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qwerty12_N800shouldn't be too straining to make a quick app to read /dev/fb2 using load-applet as example to make program to run over ssh23:13
glassRST38h: but haven't read of any yet23:13
RST38hglass: aren't midp classes sufficient though>23:13
GeneralAntilleslcuk, how blind are you?23:13
glassRST38h: the android vm isn't normal java, it's converted bytecode to their own format23:14
qwerty12_N800brb, i'll try and get a screenshot23:14
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RST38hthat, btw, would have shown us how fast android really is23:14
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RST38hglass: well, as long as there is convertion from java bytecode, it should not be a problem23:14
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glassRST38h: pre-conversion23:14
glassRST38h: the installer could do it i suppose23:14
glassRST38h: but like said, i've yet to read anything on it23:14
lcukandroid isnt just java though is it - i thought it was an entire kernel platofmr with a java frontend23:15
glassRST38h: remember, lots of folk assumed iphone to have j2me apps too because thats just industry standard..23:15
RST38hlcuk: yes, but google oly wants you to see the frontend23:15
glasslcuk: 3rd party apps are pretty much supposed to just be java23:15
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RST38hglass: well, iphone has no java, android *is* java23:15
glasslcuk: the kernel part customisation is meant just for device manufacturers etc23:15
lcukbut im seeing examples which are using opengles23:15
glassRST38h: yeah but the point is to not assume features, especially from first entries to market..23:16
glasslcuk: so?23:16
RST38hlcuk: a few people who complained about lack of native developemnt have been eventually kicked off andoird mailing lists23:16
glasslcuk: opengles like stuff can be doen in java you know23:16
lcukyes, but doesnt that imply you have the low level library to support the java top layer?23:16
glassas in getting the powervr drivers from it?23:17
glassor what you're shooting at?23:17
lcuknow you are seeing why it has piqued my curiosity23:17
glassheh, well that is a possibility23:18
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glassi wouldn't count on it tho23:18
pupnikcan someone quickly sum-up why one should care about android at *all*?23:18
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glasslot of android hypers don't understand the level of sandboxing theres going to be..23:18
glasspupnik: because it's google..  but thats not really a reason to care at all23:18
lcukpupnik, its multiplatform linux core23:18
glasspupnik: lot of people care because it's linux, but thats not really a reason to care at all either23:18
Jaffapupnik: Google wanting to beat the growth of Windows Mobile with a fairly-open mobile platform, which seems to care about usable/pretty UI23:19
glasspupnik: theres no reason to care untill they start shipping devices in big numbers, if they ever do23:19
JaffaIt's all very buzzword compliant. Java. Google. Linux. Open.23:19
pupnikit's a whole linux OS running on a java vm?23:19
glasslinux is just used to run the vm23:19
lcukno, its a whole linux os23:19
glassand interact with hw and shit23:20
JaffaIt's a Java app environment running on a Linux OS23:20
pupnikok ty23:20
glassand they delayed the first devices to late year23:20
JaffaOr Java-language/API-based app environment23:20
Tobathe thing about android23:20
Tobais that it's not fully 'open' in its development23:20
lcuknow if they have got drivers in there for the omap2420 and they work i would want to know why cant we have them in maemo23:20
lcukall pie in sky atm23:20
Tobasupposedly it will be fully once they release the big 1.0 (or something)23:21
Tobabut i'll believe it when I see the gpl stamped all over it23:21
glassToba: they totally bullshitted the openness on it's hype launch, even though pretty short afterwards after reading the api stuff etc it was obvious it doesn't matter at all for normal devs that it runs linux23:21
Tobayes. I know.23:21
jottlcuk: i doubt there will be omap2420 based android devices..23:21
JaffaToba: Maemo's not fully open in its development either (historically, at least); that hasn't stopped *us*23:21
lcukjott, have you seen gl on 810 looking like this?
Tobatrue true23:22
lcukgranted it might be my eyes, or just a partial display window updating, but that looks smoother than any 3d ive seen on device23:22
Jaffalcuk: interesting23:23
jottlcuk: well i have seen quake, doom, etc on the devices23:23
lcuklower resolution23:23
lcukhence my initial question23:23
Jaffalcuk: remember YouTube is 15fps and it looks a little slow-mo23:23
jottquake at full res is quite performant..23:23
jottand it's more than a cube ;)23:23
lcukfaster than nobounds23:23
* GeneralAntilles thinks the Flash 10 beta doesn't work so well with YouTube. . . .23:24
lcukjott, quake is not 3d in the same sense23:24
lcukit doesnt use gl23:24
GeneralAntillesI see lots of green rectangles.23:24
jottlcuk: gl is just a language specification23:24
ShadowJKMaybe someone could poke in android and see if they find any powervr code?23:24
jottor api specification23:25
glassyoutube vids arent much for judging quality/speed23:25
lcukwell mine looks good in it :)23:25
jottand andorid does a software rasterizer fallback23:25
lcukits ok, it just looked faster and made me curious23:25
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jottand i suppose it could be reasonable fast23:25
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ShadowJKOh, that rotating cube... My Nokia E70 phone, which does not have accelerated 3D... the Python SDK comes with a spinning cube opengles demo, and it's prefectly smooth on that phone... It has less powerful CPU than N810 iirc23:26
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jottwell, yeah just look at warzone 2100, quake 1/2, doom, etc to see what the n8x0 can do without hw accelerated gl..23:27
wazdoh, btw, is there any friendly way to exit android?)23:27
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qwerty12_N800is it possible to make modules.dep for initfs? insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/ etc is getting boring now.23:30
jottqwerty12_N800: depmod?23:30
RST38hShadowJK: Rotating cube is just 12 triangles23:31
RST38hShadowJK: Twice less if you are culling them23:31
qwerty12_N800would I have to chroot for modprobe?23:31
qwerty12_N800thanks for depmod23:31
jottRST38h: you never know, you could subdivide the faces like hell *g*23:32
jottqwerty12_N800: i copied the modules to /lib23:32
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jottyou could equally symlink etc.23:32
qwerty12_N800ah, i see, nice idea23:32
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jotthm speaking of initfs, has someone a running toolchain for its uclibc?23:33
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AStormjott: I had a similar one, but not the same23:34
lcukjott, i gather you are coming to the summit23:34
AStormnewer uclibc and gcc23:34
RST38hjott: yes, but demo writers do not23:34
jottRST38h: yeah sure just kidding ;)23:35
qwerty12_N800fanoush filed a bug for it, would like to see outcome23:35
jottlcuk: yeah i guess so..23:35
lcukwhat do you mean you guess so, you have to get us all from the airport and put all of us up at your house23:35
jottAStorm: hm yeah getting an abritrary uclibc toolchain is fine but do your binaries work in the diablo initfs?! ;P23:36
AStormwho cares?23:36
AStormbuild statically23:36
AStormthey're not larger that way23:36
AStormI wonder why they even put uclibc there23:37
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jottnah i could build statically with a normal libc if i wouldn't care ..23:37
AStormit's a huge waste of space23:37
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qwerty12_N800but initfs isn't brilliantly large though (round 4m now)23:37
AStormjott: not really, glibc is huge23:37
AStormand network code is still a lib, so not really static23:37
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jottAStorm: still statically linking is mediocre..23:38
AStormno, it's better for initfs23:38
AStormyou save a bit space23:38
jotteh? compared to dynamically linking against the existing uclibc?!23:39
AStorminitfs uses just a bit of uclibc23:39
AStormno need for the whole thing23:39
AStormeven with static duplication, it's size savings23:39
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AStormesp. thanks to compression23:39
* jott doubts that this is generally true23:40
AStormit usually is23:40
AStormexcept for whole systems23:41
AStormstatic is a pain to upgrade though23:41
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AStormI even compared a static uclibc VPS for linux-vserver with a dynamic uclibc one23:42
AStormthe difference in size was close to 023:43
AStorm(glibc one was much larger though, both static and dynamic, static being really huge)23:43
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whooperhey guys23:45
whoopernew problem23:45
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jottAStorm: hm i just build a printf("hello world") and the static one is 20kb the shared 3kb...23:46
jott(with uclibc 0.9.28)23:46
whooperi uninstalled android with the proper .deb23:47
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whooperhowever, mplayer is still screwed up23:47
whooperis there any way to fix it without waiting for qwerty12 or completely reflashing?23:48
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whooperany idea?23:51
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smackpotatwhere is the url with all the intall files23:53
qwerty12_N800whooper, penguinbait made a deb which flashes back old kernel.23:54
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qwerty12_N800i'm fixing that in the next kernel which should be released tomorrow (just gotta wait for my n810 tester :))23:55
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smackpotatI was thinking about the url at the top that had.../daveh...23:56
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Knirchall urls with dave should result in 40323:59
* Knirch crawls back under rock23:59 ?23:59

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