IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2008-07-04

qwerty12_N800	~lart myself for moving my old initfs.jffs2 onto the computer, i need to jack the diablo version of kotc's colour mod	00:00
* infobot whips out his power stapler and staples myself's foot to the floor for moving my old initfs.jffs2 onto the computer, i need to jack the diablo version of kotc's colour mod		00:00
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RST38h	Women working on Debian have been getting death threats from a nut job who believes they're killing free software.Á	00:03
Veggen	woa. my n810 says "no availabe programs". something's wrong.	00:03
Veggen	(on "installable programs" screen)	00:03
RST38h	GA: See, how easy you have it with Maemo Wiki?	00:03
Jaffa	RST38h: whoa	00:04
towo	Veggen: Quick, the world is ending!	00:04
towo	Load the backup!	00:04
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qwerty12_N800	RST38h, is the retard named?	00:04
RST38h	Doesn't beat the "Massacre people, suicide, go to heaven, kill God" guy, but gets pretty close	00:05
towo	Named retards? Is that something of a special class of enemy, like named monsters?	00:05
RST38h	qwerty: Of course not	00:05
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qwerty12_N800	sorry,i thought they know who done it.	00:05
RST38h	qwerty: But they would never say. Against Western sensibilities.	00:06
jott	and sometimes people are too stupid and leave obvious traces..	00:06
RST38h	Shouldn't be difficult to trace down, most of the time	00:06
qwerty12_N800	heh, ke-recv-test is fun to play with, thx nokia for ossing it.	00:08
Veggen	there's something wrong with resolving.	00:08
AStorm	jott: bad comparison	00:08
AStorm	most apps aren't hello world	00:08
AStorm	:)	00:09
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AStorm	they're more complex, yet still use little of libc's power	00:09
AStorm	so, in some situations, you can save space	00:09
AStorm	esp. with a compressed filesystem (same code produces similar blocks which compress well)	00:09
* Jaffa is registered for the summit :-) Cheap flight from Stansted to Berlin with Ryanair for 10ukp (not booked yet in case Quim says stuff about the stuff on Wednesday), found a nice Ibis Hotel for 74eur/night and then rail service from Berlin to Appledoorn for 36eur.		00:10
AStorm	note, that for 3 KB hello world you need 900 KB of libc	00:10
AStorm	;P	00:10
AStorm	or more	00:10
jott	AStorm: well the (uc)libc is already there...	00:10
Veggen	hmmf. dnsmasq doesn't work.	00:11
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AStorm	jott: but it's large, compare static busybox to dynamic one	00:13
AStorm	:)	00:13
AStorm	(and it's the most bulk of initfs)	00:13
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GeneralAntilles	RST38h, hehe, I guess so.	00:13
AStorm	you lose like, 30 KB vs 900 KB of libc	00:13
qwerty12_N800	what does apt-get update say the ip is? atarii on here fixed his problem of the repo "having" 1.0.0.0 ip by putting dns server entry manually into resolver.conf	00:14
AStorm	that's one reason why busybox is one executable - to save space in static build	00:14
qwerty12_N800	@Veggen	00:14
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jott	AStorm: what's your point? i have a ready libuClibc.* on the device, my claim was, "i will save space if i compile dynamically against this existing lib compared to statically linking against it" and i still don't think you proved me wrong..	00:15
Veggen	qwerty: it couldn't resolve anything.	00:15
Veggen	at all.	00:15
Veggen	afraid I had no energy to debug, I've had a few beers, but next time ;)	00:15
Veggen	(I rebootet. Shame on me)	00:16
AStorm	jott: just rebuild busybox statically (and add some more utils while you're at it)	00:16
AStorm	and dropbear	00:16
Veggen	I restarted dnsmasq without it helping.	00:16
AStorm	most other tools are not needed (maybe text2screen, but I think that has source code available too)	00:16
AStorm	there really isn't much on the initfs	00:17
jott	bme? dsme?	00:17
AStorm	static	00:17
AStorm	:)	00:17
jott	still i don't want to rebuild the initfs	00:17
AStorm	do as you wish	00:17
jott	dsme is not static, it uses serveral sos..	00:17
AStorm	it's uclibc 0.9.28	00:17
AStorm	just drop its headers and you're done	00:18
jott	and even bme is dynamically linked	00:18
AStorm	and you can build against it	00:18
AStorm	heh, you could relink it statically even	00:18
AStorm	not sure how to do that with ld though	00:18
jott	bleh stop talking bs	00:18
jott	you are wrong i accept your apology :p	00:19
AStorm	no, I'm not ;P	00:19
AStorm	I did a lot of crazy stuff back then	00:20
AStorm	can't remember though how to relink it	00:20
jott	bleh that has nothing to do with anything	00:20
AStorm	yup	00:20
AStorm	yes, you only need headers for that uclibc	00:21
AStorm	it's not patched in any special way	00:21
AStorm	would have to check which exact version	00:21
jott	and the right gcc :p	00:21
AStorm	yes	00:21
AStorm	close enough	00:21
AStorm	arm-pc-linux-gnueabi	00:21
AStorm	the same as in scratchbox	00:22
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AStorm	same version too	00:22
AStorm	so, if you just dump uclibc 0.9.28 into scratchbox, you have the right toolchain ;>	00:23
AStorm	no special stuff needed	00:23
AStorm	I'd personally replace that handicapped build of busybox with a real one	00:24
qwerty12_N800	tar really needs to be built for initfs	00:24
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AStorm	yup, and vi	00:24
jott	AStorm: ok, will try it this way.. thanks	00:25
AStorm	with more features	00:25
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tw-nym	This may be the wrong place for the question but is there any way to flash an N810 from mac os x 10.5? I try to run flasher-2.0.macosx and it tells me "Bad CPU type in executable" which I assume means "this was compiled for PPC"	00:51
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GAN800	it works fine on Intel.	00:52
GAN800	Try renaming it to flasher-2.0?	00:52
tw-nym	I'm using an intel mac.	00:52
tw-nym	Hrm.	00:52
tw-nym	ok.	00:52
GAN800	chmod +x ?	00:52
tw-nym	No, there'd be a different error.	00:53
tw-nym	The perms are right.	00:53
GAN800	it was something stupid	00:53
tw-nym	just checked. Tried renaming too, it didn't run.	00:53
GAN800	but I'm blanking on what it was	00:53
Knirch	does macosx has some standard identification utils, like 'file' ?	00:53
GAN800	~maemo-irclogs	00:54
tw-nym	file flasher-2.0	00:54
tw-nym	flasher-2.0: Mach-O executable ppc	00:54
tw-nym	So maybe I don't have rosetta installed properly?	00:54
GAN800	Ah, you know what, I think safari sometimes mangles the file	00:54
GAN800	~maemo-logs	00:54
infobot	i heard maemo-logs is IRC channels are logged at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog	00:54
GAN800	Redownload it?	00:54
tw-nym	Ah... ok, I'll use FF to get it.	00:54
GAN800	Solution is probably in those logs if you want to google them.	00:55
lcuk	ok, let me ask this one simple license related question and my decision will be complete	00:55
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lcuk	if i release liqbase under the gpl. as it stands i am still able to still grab all my code and compile it up inside a piece of software which i am commissioned by a company to create and have that as proprietary. however what i cannot do is take any additional modifications which i merge into the main gpl version by other people. and the modifications by others remain as gpl	00:57
GeneralAntilles	You can do whatever the hell you want with the code you wrote	00:57
GeneralAntilles	You can't do whatever the hell you want with patches people submit.	00:58
tw-nym	not a lawyer but that sounds correct. You can relicense whatever code you write however you please.	00:58
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, NO, i cannot	00:58
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lcuk	if people submit patches to a gpl project those patches are owned by the developer who submitted them	00:58
GeneralAntilles	One solution is to require all patches to submitted under a license that would let you do that.	00:58
lcuk	no, i would not attempt to do that	00:58
lcuk	i know which is my code and svn/git will tell me	00:59
GeneralAntilles	Or just maintain a private fork.	00:59
lcuk	i know what i want to use in other words	00:59
lcuk	thats not the problem gen, im just being cautious	00:59
lcuk	and garage tells me i have to choose a license	00:59
lcuk	not multiple licenses :) and the gpl is right	00:59
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lcuk	GeneralAntilles, i dont want to burden the developers who may choose to assist me in creating great apps for maemo platform	01:01
lcuk	but if i am asked to do something proprietary for a company i can also still do that but i have to know whats mine	01:02
* lcuk is trying to improve collaboration not stifle it		01:03
GeneralAntilles	lol	01:03
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tw-nym	GAN800: You were exactly right, safari mangled the binary.	01:07
crashanddie	notice his arrogance	01:08
jott	lcuk: otoh you could also choose a bsd-like license.. but gpl will ensure you'll always get the code from "forks"...	01:09
crashanddie	when he says "those who want to assist me in creating great apps"	01:09
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crashanddie	like, we're never going to be able to make anything great	01:09
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crashanddie	only he can... And he might need some assistance at one point	01:10
crashanddie	I told you lcuk, you're going to have to get a new house... The one you have is starting to be small with such a huuuge ego :D	01:10
timelyx	Jaffa: there are a couple of hostels in Berlin, i stayed at one a month or so ago...	01:11
pupnik	i found some nice empty areas around the tracks behind the zoo :P	01:11
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GeneralAntilles	tw-nym, it's server-side weirdness. :\	01:13
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lcuk	crashanddie im crap at lots of things in life, but i have a knack of finding a way of doing things. lots of apps are much better than anything i will ever build - hence my incomplete modules. but i have found a way to do this and i havent seen anyone else stepping up to even try	01:14
GeneralAntilles	pupnik will rent you a sleeping bag for $10/hour	01:14
* lcuk was very unhappy with the graphics of this nokia, but damn it looks good to me now :)		01:15
crashanddie	lcuk, like I said, you're a maniac for doing what you did. Not a lot of us would have the moral capacity to think all this over, and keep such a project over the course of a few years.	01:17
lcuk	this is only the first part though, the facilitator so to speak	01:18
lcuk	i cant do anything if i cant draw on the screen fast enough	01:18
crashanddie	lcuk, plus, there's not a lot to step up, considering you "already own the niche", so either we wait for you to release something we'll be able to use, and go forward, all of us, either we start our own project, we're going to fuck everything over most probably, and it'll be yet another deadborn project	01:18
lcuk	and tbh, i dont care if its used - it was done so i could expand on things	01:18
lcuk	good point, but competition makes life interesting	01:19
lcuk	i really thought all the angles wouldv been done by now - we have been doing computer graphics for years	01:19
lcuk	i was genuinely shocked when i realised it was so slow	01:19
timelyx	jott: choosing gpl isn't really helpful	01:19
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timelyx	because it ensures he gets code he can't use elsewhere from the forks	01:20
timelyx	bsd means less guarantees, but whatever comes should be usable anywhere	01:20
lcuk	timelyx, gpl will be fine, i know what i need and anything else built is niceness required for other projects - i just needed to draw lines tbh	01:21
lcuk	and fonts*	01:21
jott	timelyx: yes, i know.	01:21
jott	(that's why i came up with bsd in the first place ;-)	01:22
lcuk	if it can be shaped into a library and usable for all the nice projects ive heard about (ie if its easy enough for others to use and does things in the general case) then thats an added bonus	01:22
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flo_lap	then consider to use lgpl	01:25
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lcuk	flo, hi, its not a library yet, its just a set of functions. it needs a lot of moulding but i want it out there	01:26
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lcuk	im sick of hearing how fluid the iphone is, and want to see if we can do similar :)	01:27
jott	lgpl would bring no benefit when he wants to accept patches (without extra constraints) and still use it in an closed app..	01:27
flo_lap	lcuk: but if you have the idea in mind to shape it into a library it would be a useful thing	01:27
flo_lap	jott: uh?	01:28
jott	flo_lap: he might want to use his code base in an closed source project..	01:29
lcuk	is it a compatable step to license liqbase as gpl then at a later date create a standalone liqlib (or whatever) and license that as lgpl, or are gpl<->lgpl transfers not permitted	01:29
lcuk	jott, yes but i know which code is mine and i understand the implications	01:29
jott	lcuk: not when you accepted "gpl" patches	01:29
lcuk	ok	01:30
flo_lap	lcuk: you can do this, but accepting patches is hard then	01:30
lcuk	alright, so if i start as lgpl it is clearer for all concerned	01:30
jott	so you have to ask every contributor if he/she is fine with lgpl ..	01:30
flo_lap	that's why lgpl is easier	01:30
* jott does not like lgpl		01:31
lcuk	:D	01:31
lcuk	i could use the microsoft shared license	01:31
jott	gpl < bsd < lgpl ;p	01:31
* lcuk ducks		01:31
jott	erm	01:31
flo_lap	jott: we ran into this with gpe... splittinc code from applications into libraries. that's a pain.	01:31
jott	otherway around ;)	01:31
jott	yeah just stick with gpl at a whole or use bsd ;p	01:32
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lcuk	flo_lap, since you have a bit of experience, would there be implications if someone wanted to include (for instance) GPE sync or some other component	01:33
flo_lap	jott: I agree lgpl is not perfect, but it is easy to understand, widely used and most important: made for exactly this purpose: libraries	01:33
jott	flo_lap: yes, it has it purpose ;)	01:34
lcuk	i've dreaded this conversation more than actually coding it	01:34
flo_lap	lcuk: well... gpe has the same license model gnome uses: gpl for applications and lgpl for libraries.	01:35
lbt	:)	01:35
lbt	I too think lgpl is appropriate for a library	01:35
lcuk	or a future library	01:35
flo_lap	lcuk: that's what we missed to take care of	01:36
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* jott thinks there are people confusing the l in "lgpl" with "library" :p		01:36
flo_lap	lcuk: so we had a pile of contributors who had to change their codes licenese	01:36
derf	lcuk: What's the reason you want non-GPL'd applications to be able to use your code?	01:36
lbt	lcuk: have you actually carefully read the GPL and LGPL?	01:37
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flo_lap	jott: iirc that was the purpose ;)	01:37
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flo_lap	argh! another license discussion!	01:37
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jott	http://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-not-lgpl.html :)	01:37
* jott hides		01:37
lbt	flo_lap: but this time there is code attached - so it's fair :)	01:38
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lcuk	yes lbt	01:38
lbt	OK - just checking...	01:38
lbt	it's been a while - and I've not read v3 yet :)	01:38
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lbt	none of this really matters until you get patches	01:40
* jott infects lcuk with a highly contagious gpl virus		01:40
lbt	releasing gpl code will prevent people from legally using it in commercial apps	01:41
lcuk	you are right lbt, but i am at the garage page and its forcing my hand	01:41
lcuk	no, it will prevent them from using it in closed commercial apps	01:41
lbt	from prior discussions I think gpl	01:41
lcuk	nothing wrong with selling a gpl program	01:41
lbt	mmm do you want help picking a license or arguing pedantry? :)	01:42
lcuk	:P	01:42
lbt	if you pick GPL now then you can pick LGPL later	01:42
lbt	if you pick LGPL now then other people can take the LGPL and use it in closed apps.	01:43
lcuk	the license which stood out when reading was the artistic license. this fits with what i thought, but would not necessarily fit with other existing applications	01:43
lbt	is my understanding	01:43
lcuk	ie, if somebody decided to patch fbreader to use liqbase rendering	01:43
lcuk	using the binary is not the issue	01:43
lcuk	lgpl does solve that case..	01:44
lbt	I think artistic is almost public domain (I'm not a license analyst) - very liberal (and 'nice') but not protective	01:44
jott	and if you are fine that others use your code in closed commercial apps, then bsd-like is the easiest solution	01:45
lbt	ISTR you wanted to reserve the right to be the only one allowed to use the code in a closed app	01:45
jott	you can accept patches and later turn into lgpl/gpl without much hassle or use it in your own closed app	01:45
lbt	if that is correct then it's important	01:45
lbt	(in choosing)	01:45
lcuk	ISTR has thrown me	01:46
lbt	jott: I think the key thing is "does lcuk want to make it hard to use his code in closed apps"	01:46
jott	yeah, if not, then i would thing bsd is the better choice	01:46
lbt	I seem to recall (we chatted about this a few days ago)	01:46
jott	as he can accept patches and still use it in his private closed project	01:46
lbt	yes - but	01:47
lbt	anyone else can take his code and use it in a closed app too	01:47
lbt	so lcuk - do you want (at the moment) to allow or hinder use of your code in other peoples closed apps?	01:47
jott	yes.. also with lgpl...	01:47
jott	that's why i vote for either gpl or bsd :)	01:48
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lbt	jott: hence I suggest GPL is a 'safer' first release (until patches)	01:48
lcuk	yes, i want to hinder closed apps	01:48
jott	well then use gpl	01:49
lbt	yep	01:49
jott	easy as that ;)	01:49
lbt	no brainer	01:49
lcuk	right, decision made :) thank you	01:49
lcuk	canola is #1	01:49
lcuk	if they want it they can open themselves up	01:49
jott	hah infect canola with gpl :P	01:49
lcuk	if not, tough	01:49
lbt	nb, in the future you could license your code to a closed app even if you release it GPL - cf Qt	01:50
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lcuk	yes lbt, anything coded right up until patch day is clean and untainted. anything after the waters are muddy, but git is meant to help, hence the request earlier	01:50
lbt	src dl'ed	01:50
lcuk	:) thanks	01:51
* lcuk doesnt even know if canola needs it you know		01:51
lcuk	anyway, ill go and scrub the code and add some headers	01:52
lcuk	thank you all	01:52
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whooper	hullo	02:14
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Maximander	hello	02:15
lbt	HULLO hullo hull hu	02:15
Maximander	I keep getting sb2 errors	02:15
Maximander	when trying to configure	02:15
Maximander	"checking whether the C compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs."	02:15
Maximander	including when I do maemo-rootstrap install chinook40_armel	02:15
Maximander	in the program i was building, ./configure ran fine, but sb2 ./configure encountered that error, so I went to re-init sb2, and got the error again during sb2-init	02:17
lbt	sorry Maximander, I had LD_PRELOAD issues with sb2 and haven't yet fixed them so I can't help :(	02:17
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Maximander	where is config.log written?	02:25
Maximander	during sb2-init	02:25
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Maximander	solved: echo 4096 \| sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr	02:28
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lbt	night all	02:54
lbt	lcuk - git on its way	02:54
lcuk	ahhhh cool, thank you v muchly	02:54
lcuk	i was falling asleep at the desk when you binged	02:55
lcuk	lbt, c++ compiles slower than straight c :(	02:56
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skibur	hum...	03:38
skibur	Openssh + Openssh Client = fast root on Console and KDE	03:39
skibur	nice	03:39
skibur	KDE Konqueror that is	03:39
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skibur	hello	04:27
skibur	is Ubuntu mobile coming out for N8*0?	04:29
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skibur	anybody here?	04:59
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Proteous	hah	05:22
Proteous	no	05:22
Proteous	NEVER	05:22
Proteous	na na na na	05:22
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lcuk	Your project has been submitted to the garage administrators. Within 72 hours, you will receive notification of their decision and further instructions.	05:35
lcuk	Thank you for choosing garage	05:35
lcuk	why did nobody tell me this sooner :'(	05:35
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ralann	tch	05:35
derf	lcuk: I can answer that question in 72 hours.	05:39
lcuk	heh	05:39
pupnik	if you ever meet a lawmaker	05:39
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pupnik	kick him in the nuts	05:39
lcuk	:S no	05:39
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derf	I'm pretty sure that's the worst person to kick in the nuts, second only to a policeman.	05:40
pupnik	nobody deserves it more	05:40
derf	Actually, a Marine.	05:40
derf	He wouldn't worry about having to fill out paperwork later.	05:40
lcuk	if wives had nuts im pretty sure they would be worse than any marine	05:40
lcuk	or even worse: the mother in law	05:41
derf	lcuk: You don't _need_ to kick them in the nuts to suffer their abuse.	05:41
lcuk	they are abusing you for future transgressions	05:41
pupnik	well i LIKE german cops	05:42
lcuk	now, i have the source to liqbase all nicely tar.gz'ed ready to go into the garage	05:42
derf	And past transgressions. And imagined transgressions. And...	05:42
pupnik	i have a cousin who is a detective	05:42
lcuk	irc discussions about transgressions	05:43
pupnik	but they are forced to prosecute idiotic stuff	05:43
pupnik	just like we are all forced to... oh...	05:43
pupnik	obey a law that forbids me from marketing my latest invention	05:43
lcuk	they are bound by the 3 laws of robocop	05:43
pupnik	yeah well pardon me, my invention was freaking cool	05:44
pupnik	and socialism killed it	05:44
pupnik	because if a child drank my invention it might get sick	05:44
pupnik	like... with gasoline	05:44
lcuk	you invented vodka?	05:44
derf	pupnik: I'm actively arguing against kicking cops in the nuts.	05:44
Grackle_	Pfft pupnik, that's a problem that marketing can solve.	05:45
pupnik	oh i agree with that	05:45
pupnik	cops aren't lawmakers	05:45
lcuk	rm_you, pssst	05:45
rm_you	lcuk: wha?	05:46
lcuk	read up a few lines :P	05:46
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rm_you	lcuk: !!!!!!!!!!!!!	05:46
lcuk	i made a decision today	05:46
rm_you	:)	05:47
lcuk	well, yesterday - ive headered and prepared myself	05:47
lcuk	pm me your mail address	05:47
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rm_you	?	05:48
lcuk	how did you do that	05:48
rm_you	notice	05:48
rm_you	/notice	05:48
lcuk	fair enough :)	05:48
rm_you	well, /notice lcuk <text> :P	05:48
crashanddie	anyway, I'm heading to home	05:49
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crashanddie	120euro extra for a few hours of coding, good enough :)	05:49
lcuk	crashanddie, :) good enough	05:49
lcuk	rm_you, its on its way, buti left a description file out:	05:55
lcuk	technology demo featuring finger friendly menus, variable resolution kinetic scrolling fullscreen document viewer, pressure sensitivity sketching with a graffiti wall showing all drawings, cpu throttling adjustments and a fullscreen starfield screensaver.	05:55
* lcuk thinks he got all the keywords ;)		05:56
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johnx	the key one being starfield :)	05:56
lcuk	lol johnx yer	05:57
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alsor	test	06:06
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alsor	hi, I want to know, if Metalayer crawler is open source?	06:11
lcuk	not sure alsor, am just heading off to bed	06:11
alsor	thanks :) good dream :)	06:12
lcuk	search internettablettalk.com	06:12
lcuk	someone should have already asked	06:12
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alsor	got it:)	06:14
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rm_you	lol, cool lcuk :P	06:47
ds3	3	06:52
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bex	does anyone know why when i try to download from maemo.org sometimes it says the package cannot be found?	08:11
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atul	Hi my scratch box is failing while running this scipt after exporting Display, af-sb-init.sh start, the problem is, It wont launch display in Xephyr. Showing this error message http://pastebin.ca/1061983	08:22
atul	Any Idea ?	08:22
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zapppp	Is there any documentation available about the internet connectivity daemons methods that I can call through D-Bus?	08:25
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timelyx	andre___: ping :)	09:00
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inz	atul, it sounds like you wouldn't have dbus -package installed	09:04
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atul_	inz, No I had install it was privioully all work fine but y'day onwords it won't	09:16
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* timelyx eyes bug 3394 wearily		10:03
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inz	timelyx, interesting, it has the same exact summary but different reporter and description	10:10
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timelyx	yeah	10:12
timelyx	how in the world does one do that?	10:12
timelyx	it's possible i left a template link out somewhere...	10:13
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GeneralAntilles	Maybe just a copy pasta?	10:15
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timelyx	maybe...	10:19
timelyx	i'm not quite sure what someone expects to get by doing that	10:19
timelyx	i mean, i do appreciate a well written summary if i did write it myself	10:19
timelyx	but..	10:19
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GeneralAntilles	"mebe if i reporter this bug twice eht'll get fixed fastar"	10:21
GeneralAntilles	Or maybe they think the old report is just for Chinook?	10:21
GeneralAntilles	Who knows	10:21
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GeneralAntilles	Is nokia.com just completely broken for anybody else?	10:38
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doc\|home	GeneralAntilles: working here	10:41
GeneralAntilles	Guess the WebKit browsers are choking on it.	10:41
* doc\|home zZzZz		10:41
GeneralAntilles	http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/broken-nokia-usa.jpg	10:41
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doc\|home	looked fine for me	10:44
atul_	/usr/share/fonts/X11/misc and /usr/share/fonts/X11/cyrillic Hi this package is not available in my system How to install them any Idea ?	10:44
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rm_you	wtflol	10:51
rm_you	just watching the latest two eps of Dr Who	10:51
rm_you	am I supposed to know who Sarah Jane is? I think I remember her kinda, but i have no idea who like any of the people here are (but I have a feeling I would know if I watched Torchwood)....	10:52
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aquatix	rm_you: shush, i still have to start with season 3 ;)	10:54
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rm_you	lol	10:56
rm_you	oh wait, bah i think Sarah Jane was from the OLD series	10:56
rm_you	which i never really watched :/	10:56
* timeless ponder		10:56
rm_you	aquatix: sorry O_o	10:56
timeless	what does 'previous' mean in a time based planet?	10:56
timeless	'older' or 'newer'?	10:56
aquatix	rm_you: :)	10:56
aquatix	timeless: i think older	10:57
Jaffa	Morning, all	10:57
timeless	aquatix: if you're wrong, do i file a bug? :)	10:57
rm_you	and technically, on a time-based planet, wouldn't things that were "previous" also be "behind"? :P	10:57
GeneralAntilles	Yes.	10:57
Jaffa	rm_you: Sarah Jane was one of Tom Baker's companions. She met the Doctor and Rose in the second series episode, "School Reunion"	10:57
GeneralAntilles	Older is "next" on maemo planet.	10:57
GeneralAntilles	Hey, Jaffa.	10:57
* timeless goes to file a bug		10:57
aquatix	Jaffa: oh that Sarah Jane	10:57
* aquatix knows her		10:57
rm_you	Jaffa: ah yeah i remember that	10:57
aquatix	with that dog	10:58
Jaffa	rm_you: After that, she got her own spin-off show on CBBC called "The Sarah Jane Adventures"	10:58
aquatix	cool that she comes back	10:58
rm_you	yeah i saw like two episodes of the tom baker series :/	10:58
hrw\|gone	B/nick hrw	10:58
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rm_you	i want to go back and watch it all, IMO	10:58
* aquatix has a torrent with all the old ones		10:58
hrw	morning	10:58
rm_you	just so many epps >_>	10:58
aquatix	didn't download them all yet thuogh	10:58
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rm_you	yeah i had it too, just no space :P	10:58
rm_you	and SOOOO MANY EPISODES	10:58
aquatix	heheh, me neither	10:58
aquatix	yup	10:59
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rm_you	ack gotta go finish this ep	10:59
rm_you	is ep 12 the finale? or are there a couple more?	10:59
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lardman	kulve: ping	11:22
lardman	bmidgley: ping	11:28
kulve	lardman: ping	11:36
kulve	sorry, pong	11:36
lardman	kulve: nice to see they listen hey?	11:37
lardman	or they are listening	11:37
lcuk	lardman :)	11:38
*** lcuk is now known as lcuk_work		11:39
lcuk_work	lardman, your timer dilemma have you solved it?	11:40
lardman	lcuk_work: no, still a bit lost on that one	11:41
rm_you	$^)(#%^@^#()@^)(&$#V%HNNOY*Rcj9835jc90a7d4()^Q&$)S&@^)($^	11:41
lardman	lcuk_work: I wonder if I need to link some extra module in, which should have been in the kernel already	11:41
lcuk_work	when i saw your post last night (amongst other things) i went looking and found a high resolution timer thing, lemme see if its in history - what i wasnt confident though was if it was the right one	11:41
lardman	lcuk_work: There are timers, but I thought they were like alarms	11:42
lbt	lcuk_work: does git work?	11:43
kulve	lardman: yes, it is.	11:43
rm_you	just finished episode 12 <_< $%@	11:43
lcuk_work	lardman look at this, my googling i notices something called "dsp/bios STS" http://focus.ti.com/lit/ug/spru819/spru819.pdf	11:44
lcuk_work	lbt, i ran out of time last night but its on machine and ill be reading this weekend. thank you very much indeed though i will confirm asap	11:45
lardman	lcuk_work: won't work as it needs the Ti DSP bridge, and we use DSP Gateway	11:45
lcuk_work	do lbt/lardman wish to have a peek under the covers before garage gets it..	11:45
lardman	lcuk_work: yes, could be cool :)	11:45
lardman	s/could/would	11:45
lcuk_work	lardman, ok - hence me not knowing enough about the dsp	11:46
lardman	lcuk_work: Thanks for taking the time to look though :)	11:46
* lcuk_work just has to post the garage description		11:46
* lcuk_work loves his creative keyword placement		11:46
lardman	buzzword bingo? ;)	11:47
lcuk_work	technology demo featuring finger friendly menus, variable resolution kinetic scrolling fullscreen document viewer, pressure sensitivity sketching with a graffiti wall showing all drawings, cpu throttling adjustments and a fullscreen starfield screensaver.	11:47
lcuk_work	absolutely :D	11:47
lardman	try saying that in one breath!	11:47
lcuk_work	well i tried saying it a bit longer at first and they moaned that it was over 255chars :P	11:48
* lcuk_work counted the letters :S		11:48
lardman	It's a good old-school Shakespearean sentence, lots of commas only one full stop :)	11:48
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lcuk_work	i want to be proud of my nokia	11:48
lardman	Where might I find a Nokian who could tell me if the RTC module was compiled into the DSP kernel...?	11:49
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RST38h	July 4th spam has started	11:50
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lardman	Is that because Tom Cruise was born today?	11:50
* GeneralAntilles spams bottlerockets at RST38h.		11:51
* lardman laughs at prodigous usage of noun "bastards" in liqbase :)		11:52
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drako	greetings	11:53
drako	is there a version o maemo for xscale pdas?	11:53
GeneralAntilles	Run Debian?	11:54
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GeneralAntilles	Most of the important parts of Maemo have been packaged for Debian.	11:54
lcuk_work	gotta vanish, back later, lardman/lbt :'( dont be too harsh on my coding style	11:54
drako	debian?	11:54
drako	with the hilton wm?	11:54
lbt	I'm busy today but will look if I get the chance... l8r lcuk_work	11:55
GeneralAntilles	With matchbox and Hildon desktop.	11:55
drako	anyone have tried that ?	11:56
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X-Fade	drako: http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2007/02/09/hildon-desktop-scalability/	12:00
drako	thank you X-Fade :-)	12:00
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drako	cool E have a tablet pc to try that	12:02
rm_you	lcuk_work: lol cool you define your own absolute value function using a ternary? :P that's sweet	12:03
rm_you	i'm already learning neat things and i'm only on the defines :P	12:03
drako	never the less i need to prepare a prototype for a linux terminal in pdas using xscale processors like those of hp and it would be a killer if its possible to use maemo like system	12:03
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atul	I got this Error message when try to run Xephyer "/usr/bin/af-sb-init.sh: line 1: export: `92:': not a valid identifier"	12:12
atul	How to resolve it ?	12:12
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rm_you	bbl, gotta reboot into windoze for work :/ ugh.	12:24
rm_you	aww, my uptime :(	12:28
aquatix	rm_you: btw, is your awesome_app(tm) already in extras?	12:28
rm_you	lol	12:28
rm_you	adv-backlight?	12:28
rm_you	it should be in diablo extras now	12:29
rm_you	i guess it's technically "advanced-backlight"	12:29
aquatix	ahno	12:29
aquatix	dang	12:29
aquatix	mixing up people	12:29
rm_you	anyways, bye bye 16 days of uptime (since i installed this OS)	12:29
rm_you	ah yeah	12:30
rm_you	lcuk's thing?	12:30
aquatix	i love adv-backlight too though ;)	12:30
aquatix	yeah :)	12:30
rm_you	i was just looking at the code for it :P	12:30
rm_you	it is really neat	12:30
* aquatix wants		12:30
rm_you	glad he decided to release it	12:30
rm_you	it may be on garage?	12:30
rm_you	or maybe he was going to do that later	12:30
rm_you	anyways, gotta reboot	12:30
rm_you	bbl	12:30
aquatix	pft, 16 days...	12:30
aquatix	11:30:49 mbscholt@luna:~/projects/masterthesis/thesis$ uptime 11:30:50 up 141 days, 18:08, 4 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00	12:30
rm_you	lol, i JUST installed debian on this machine 16 days ago :P	12:31
aquatix	heh, cya	12:31
rm_you	new OS == give me a break :P	12:31
aquatix	;)	12:31
rm_you	sad, it didn't even get to a month <_<	12:31
rm_you	ooh, i also have a new kernel <_<	12:32
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herwood	hi	12:58
herwood	is there any dbus-guru here?	12:58
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andre___	timelyx, pong	13:08
robtaylor	herwood: hmm, i might count =)	13:09
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drako	anyone tried to update to a new kernell version?	13:13
GeneralAntilles	That's a question for AStorm	13:13
drako	i c	13:14
hrw	drako: 2.6.26-rc should works	13:14
hrw	drako: of course forget about wifi	13:14
drako	what about 2.6.24	13:14
herwood	robtaylor: I'm trying to create my own dbus service to system dbus. Do I need to do some extra job to get it work?	13:15
hrw	drako: forget about wifi on >2.6.21-nokia basically	13:16
drako	so to try another kernell can i use the nokia_2420_defconfig to configure the new kernel	13:17
jott	drako: http://muru.com/linux/n8x0/	13:17
drako	so the wifi driver is a nokia hack	13:17
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jott	drako: not particular a nokia hack but it is closed source	13:18
robtaylor	herwood: you need to add a policy in /etc/dbus-1/system.d	13:19
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drako	see it	13:20
drako	need the firmware to compile	13:20
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herwood	robtaylor: thanks, does it require anything else?	13:20
robtaylor	herwood: i have no idea how much you've done already	13:21
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herwood	robtaylor: Currently I can register my service to session dbus. I've used glib-bindings to do that	13:22
drako	what about patching the 2.6.21-nokia?	13:22
jott	drako: you can do that...	13:23
drako	ok i'll start testing with that then :)	13:23
robtaylor	herwood: ok, then yea, all you need it to st up teh allows so your service can expose itself on the system bus	13:23
drako	thank you jott and hrw	13:23
herwood	robtaylor: yeah, I'll try that. thanks!	13:27
robtaylor	herwood: np :)	13:27
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drako	another question. the filemanager can access samba shares but not those with user authentication is that some configuration i'm missing or is a lack of functionality	13:30
jott	drako: it's a lack of functionality....	13:30
drako	from the filemanager program or the samba support	13:31
drako	:w	13:31
drako	uups wrong window ;)	13:32
jott	drako: i bet it's some stuff missing in libhildonfm but thats just a blind guess...	13:34
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hrw	gnome-vfs integration is simple in maemo	13:36
eichi	what about maemo-mapper for diablo?	13:40
GeneralAntilles	Just grab it from the Chinook repo	13:40
GeneralAntilles	gnuite hasn't done anything to get it through autobuilder so far as I can tell.	13:41
hrw	building of maemo-mapper outside of scratchbox will result in hard breaking	13:41
eichi	hrw, means?	13:42
hrw	eichi: #include "/usr/include/gpsbt.h"	13:43
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hrw	some time will pass until it will evolve from 'I just split onebigfile.c into parts'	13:43
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eichi	okay	13:48
eichi	and what about pidgin for diablo?	13:49
eichi	these 2 apps are one of the common used	13:49
GeneralAntilles	https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/maemo-diablo-armel-extras/logs/pidgin_2.3.1-1nix0.dsc.sbdmock.root.log-FAILED	13:51
GeneralAntilles	Just pull anything you're missing from Chinook Extras.	13:51
drako	chinook pidgin is working fine to me	13:51
drako	and i have upgraded to diablo already	13:52
* aquatix is happy with telepathy		13:52
aquatix	works fine for me	13:52
aquatix	with those collabora packages for other IM networks	13:52
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: If someone would really care about having pidgin working, that can be done pretty easily. ;)	13:52
GeneralAntilles	Who is the maintainer?	13:53
drako	actually i just would like to have the encrypt pidgin plugin	13:53
aquatix	drako: otr?	13:53
aquatix	that one would be nice indeed	13:53
drako	yes i know aquatix	13:53
drako	otr is already available	13:54
aquatix	oh	13:54
aquatix	which one do you mean then?	13:54
* hrw is also happy with telepathy stuff		13:54
drako	pidgin encrypt	13:54
hrw	now I want some good note taking app for diablo	13:54
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Maintainer is Gabriel Schulhof or nix.	13:54
hrw	as when I look into chinook extras I feel nightmares comming	13:55
drako	need to try the openoffice :-D	13:55
hrw	xournal depends on libgnomecanvas... maemopadplus with hand written deps...	13:55
drako	I need a spreadsheet	13:55
hrw	drako: gnumeric is in diablo extras	13:55
hrw	I need working PIM - calendar/contacts/tasks	13:55
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X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Hmm he seems to be working for Nokia ;)	13:56
drako	haven't used gnumeric for ages	13:56
GeneralAntilles	Ha, so how is he not with the picture? :D	13:56
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: So probably gone for the holidays. Finland is closed for summer break ;)	13:56
drako	hrw you have gpe pim stuff	13:56
GeneralAntilles	Screwy Europeans.	13:56
hrw	drako: please...	13:56
hrw	drako: I loaded guadec ical into it and notice that switching views make it stick to agenda view	13:57
drako	well until better comes around	13:57
hrw	drako: not to mention that I had to hand edit ical to get it imported	13:57
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drako	well maybe someone can get sunbird working	13:59
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rm_you	hrw: tried liqbase for notetaking? :P	14:05
* aquatix wants		14:05
aquatix	cough	14:05
* aquatix is going to write an irssi script that echo's /me wants every time liqbase is mentioned ;)		14:05
aquatix	anyways	14:05
aquatix	did lcuk upload it to extras?	14:05
rm_you	aquatix: then download it? :P	14:05
rm_you	aquatix: doubt it, but you can just get it from his googlecode site	14:06
aquatix	btw, there is a maemo notes app i thought?	14:06
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sbaturzio	Aloha!	14:06
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crashanddie	Well hello there Maemo !	14:08
hellwolf	might be absent	14:09
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\|tbb\|	hi all,	14:19
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lardman	Thoughts on fn call overhead in C	14:21
lardman	Where would one look to get figures/comparisons?	14:21
inz	mumble damn white-on-black websites, they aren't really readable in sunlight	14:22
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\|tbb\|	for what is android good for when running on n810	14:22
RST38h	ladman: what exactly do you want to know?	14:22
aquatix	\|tbb\|: mostly fun	14:23
lardman	dneary made me think that perhaps some of the awful sbc performance is down to fn call overhead	14:23
aquatix	from what i've heard, it's not very useful	14:23
lardman	awful performance on the dsp that is	14:23
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* rm_you is still looking forward to SBC-DSP :P		14:23
RST38h	lardman: ARMEL abi calls functions as follows:	14:23
hrw	rm_you: will try it when it will appear in repo	14:23
hrw	rm_you: or when will have sbox working which rather do not happen soon	14:24
\|tbb\|	i thought it could use the opengl power of the n810 chip ;(	14:24
rm_you	hrw: he released the binaries	14:24
RST38h	lardman: 1. Return address goes to R14. 2. Stack pointer is in R13. 3. If your function uses any local variables, R12 will point to the call frame with these variables on stack	14:24
RST38h	lardman: Registers R0..R3 are considered scratch registers and never saved. When you call a function, first 4 arguments are passed via these registers	14:25
RST38h	lardman: So, when you enter a function, the first thing it will do is save all modified registers starting with R4 on stack using stmdb	14:26
RST38h	lardman: If you are using local vars, R12 will be saved. If you are calling other functions, R14 will be saved.	14:26
lardman	RST38h: the fn in question has two pointer arguments and two local arrays	14:26
RST38h	lardman: At exit, it will execute ldmia to restore registers. That is all.	14:27
lardman	no other calls from this fn	14:27
RST38h	local arrays? how big?	14:27
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RST38h	Can I have the function source code to look at?	14:27
lardman	int array1[8], array2[5]	14:27
lardman	of course, let me find an url for it	14:27
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lardman	RST38h: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/connectivity/bluez-utils/tags/bluez-utils-3.28-0osso4/sbc/sbc.c	14:29
lardman	RST38h: that's the ARM code anyway	14:29
lardman	RST38h: here's the number of calls: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2008-June/033918.html	14:30
lardman	RST38h: the dsp code is some 7x slower than the ARM code; I'm now wondering if that's down to an expensive fn call	14:30
lardman	or rather 160672 x2 expensive fn calls	14:31
RST38h	Is your C code in ARM or DSP?	14:31
lardman	my C code runs on the DSP, I'd like to compare the overhead vs ARM	14:32
lardman	https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/mk2/dsp/?root=dsp-sbc is the same code as runs on ARM (with 16bit byte changes)	14:32
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lardman	https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/mk3/dsp/?root=dsp-sbc is code which tries to use DSP intrinisics and dual MACs	14:32
lardman	the fn args are the same, just the internals of the _sbc_analyze_eight() fn	14:33
hrw	rm_you: installed	14:33
RST38h	lardman: So you want to know what DSP calling convention is?	14:34
lardman	RST38h: I think I've seen that somewhere in the DSP docs, I'll try to dig it out later on	14:34
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RST38h	Is sbc.c compiled on ARM or on DSP?	14:35
lardman	dsp	14:36
jott	hm does the dsp c compiler support inline?	14:36
lardman	yes	14:36
lardman	not sure of the syntax though off the top of my head	14:36
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herwood	robtaylor: are you still around?	14:37
lardman	I guess inlining both the sbc_analyze_eight() and _sbc_analyze_eight() fns would rule out the fn calling overhead theory	14:37
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robtaylor	herwood: yep	14:44
lardman	lunchtime, I'll see whether inlining those two makes any difference	14:45
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RST38h	lardman: Ok. Here is the deal	14:46
RST38h	lardman: DSP is completely different from ARM. They have different instruction sets, different ABI, different memory access speeds, etc.	14:47
RST38h	lardman: So comparing calling overhead between these two makes no sense.	14:47
herwood	robtaylor: I got my service to run in the system dbus but I still have a problem	14:48
RST38h	lardman: BUT! If you show final DSP assembly code, as generated by compiler, there may be a way to optimize it	14:48
jott	yay! hand-optimizing rules! ;)	14:48
herwood	robtaylor: I have to implement another service's method (from another interface). Do you know that how should I configure the conf-file?	14:49
robtaylor	herwood: umm, what?!	14:49
jott	but thats true, sometimes it's enough to see what the compiler actually generated to rething some code pathes..	14:49
jott	think	14:49
herwood	I try to be more specific	14:49
herwood	:)	14:49
crashanddie	RST38h, does the dsp have DMA to the RAM ?	14:50
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Andy80	hi	14:51
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herwood	robtaylor: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/connectivity/osso-obexsrv/trunk/README	14:55
herwood	robtaylor: I'm trying to implement the handler-interface and register my own handler	14:56
jott	hm is garage down?	14:57
\|tbb\|	is it possible to use the agps feature without open the apgs-ui (gui) tool	14:57
herwood	but it just won't work :P	14:57
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jott	\|tbb\|: afaiu the agps-ui thingy just sets some gconf settings	14:58
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\|tbb\|	oh good to know, perhaps only the lat lan	14:59
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\|tbb\|	i could do this my myself then ;)	14:59
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jott	\|tbb\|: gconftool-2 -R /system/osso/supl	14:59
\|tbb\|	;)	14:59
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lcuk_mob	i wonder how long i manage to stay before customers return	15:00
crashanddie	what is agps all about ?	15:00
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jott	crashanddie: assisted gps, getting faster gps fixes by using additional data	15:00
lcuk_mob	crashanddie: its a way of pre-initializing the gps based upon knowledge around you now (ie phone networks/wifi stuff/silly 50mile map)	15:00
herwood	robtaylor: I think that all my problems are related to xml-file (I use it to generate glib-bindings) or to the conf-file	15:01
crashanddie	so basically, I click on the place I'm at, then launch map, and it'll get a fix faster ?	15:01
lcuk_mob	thats the idea	15:01
lcuk_mob	as long as you are on earth anyway	15:02
crashanddie	yeah	15:02
lcuk_mob	mornin btw	15:02
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crashanddie	don't plan on any other planet before the next release	15:02
jott	crashanddie: it will send your proposed location to the supl.nokia.com server	15:02
lcuk_mob	jott - it uploads your location?	15:02
jott	and the server will tell you the satellite positions..	15:03
jott	lcuk_mob: that's how i understand it..	15:03
lcuk_mob	what happens with no wifi enabled (in the car)	15:03
RST38h	crash: I do not know	15:03
* lcuk_mob mumbles something about it caching the empharis (sp?) data		15:03
jott	lcuk_mob: connect with a phone :P	15:03
RST38h	ephemeris	15:04
RST38h	+ almanac	15:04
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lcuk_mob	ta rst :)	15:04
RST38h	almanac tells you the satellite status while ephemeris tell you satellite locations	15:04
lcuk_mob	jott, phone is never tethered	15:04
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jott	not sure if the position alone will help with the current agps..	15:04
lcuk_mob	once you have the ephemeris data though i thought that was meant to be valid for months	15:05
crashanddie	wow	15:05
crashanddie	it works	15:05
GeneralAntilles	It works offline, too.	15:05
RST38h	GA: Actually, it does not for me, for some reaosn	15:05
andre___	oh, classification? cool	15:05
crashanddie	got a fix in about 3 minutes in the house :)	15:05
lcuk_mob	i can occasionally get a rapid fix without even having diablo, but thats so rare	15:05
RST38h	There is a simple experiment you can do	15:06
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RST38h	Start up Maemo mapper and look at satellite status	15:06
RST38h	(RoadMap has an even nicer utility for that)	15:06
GeneralAntilles	andre___, timeless was poking at it yesterday.	15:06
lardman	hmm, they are already inline	15:06
RST38h	If you see satellite numbers at the bottom - it means that you have got a valid almanac	15:06
lcuk_mob	lardman, are you still concerned about timing without having a hiresolution timer?	15:06
RST38h	If you see satellite dots on the "sky" - it means you have got valid ephemeris	15:07
RST38h	lardman: it is not calling overhead	15:07
jott	lardman: is there an objdump or some other simple disassembler to check what the compiler generated?	15:07
RST38h	wanna try something?	15:07
lardman	lcuk_mob: without any timer at all, yes	15:07
andre___	GeneralAntilles, yeah, and I had to go and after that my battery went out of power, so i couldn't see the backlog. cool	15:07
lardman	RST38h: no	15:07
lardman	jott: yes	15:07
RST38h	don't wanna try something? ;)	15:07
lardman	RST38h: no to whether it was calling overhead	15:07
RST38h	lardman: ok, next guess then:	15:08
RST38h	lardman: could you get rid of your two temporary arrays and replace them with a few temp variables?	15:08
RST38h	lardman: also, make it as few variables as possible, reuse variables if you can	15:08
jott	i.e. are you sure the functions are really inlined?	15:08
lcuk_mob	hmmmm, thats not a good thing. its like chicken and egg. you said the time() function was returning a strange variable repeated over the lo/hi shorts of a 32bit. wild guess, its not the address of the timing data is it (and static cos thats where you grab it from after the function updates... ?	15:08
lardman	jott: I'll check	15:09
lardman	RST38h: to do what?	15:09
RST38h	lardman: to reduce the number of times it has to go into memory	15:09
RST38h	memory accesses can absolutely kill you	15:09
lardman	RST38h: if the fns are inlined, then that shouldn't make much difference	15:09
lcuk_mob	or relatively kill you	15:09
RST38h	lardman: wrong	15:09
lardman	RST38h: oh I see	15:09
RST38h	lardman: it is NOT call overhead, it is memory access overhead	15:10
lardman	RST38h: yes, I see what you mean	15:10
RST38h	As long as you use a few vars, compiler will try placing them into registers	15:10
crashanddie	oh	15:10
RST38h	But arrays will not be registerized in most cases	15:10
lardman	RST38h: depends how many registers I have then, I need 16 32bit variables	15:10
crashanddie	reboot in SSH actually works	15:10
lcuk_mob	reboot doesnt reboot	15:11
RST38h	lardman: you may need fewer - check carefully	15:11
lcuk_mob	its annoyed me from day1	15:11
RST38h	reodrder computations if you have to	15:11
crashanddie	lcuk_mob, well... I do have the feeling it just did	15:11
lcuk_mob	ahhh, you mean using the reboot command from ssh	15:11
crashanddie	aye	15:11
lcuk_mob	i thought your ssh session lasted over a reboot	15:11
lardman	RST38h: look at the tail end of _sbc_analyze_eight()	15:11
lardman	RST38h: certainly the t[8] variables could be replaced with registers, but then they probably are	15:12
robtaylor	herwood: just do an allow_sendinterface	15:12
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lardman	RST38h: the whole fn is about memory accesses	15:12
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jott	lardman: do you compile with "-x2 Enable inlining of inline functions" ?	15:17
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lardman	jott: -o3	15:18
lardman	jott: where did you find that flag?	15:18
jott	in the "c55x dsp programmer's guide"	15:19
lardman	jott: which page?	15:20
* Jaffa relaxes over an Eat "big bold" soup whilst having a brief breather at a nightmare of a day.		15:20
jott	40	15:20
Jaffa	BTW, anyone trained coLinux or andLinux with Scratchbox?	15:20
lardman	jott: is that 2-18?	15:20
lcuk_mob	lardman, read the opening para of this http://focus.ti.com.cn/cn/lit/an/spra865/spra865.pdf	15:21
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, qwerty12 is using andLinux, I think.	15:21
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jott	3-2 here...hmm oh that's not from the ti.com page.. maybe it's an older version?!	15:21
lardman	Optimizing C55x Assembly Code Using the Pipeline Stall Analyzer Tool	15:22
jott	lardman: seems to be an older revision :/	15:22
lardman	SPRU376A, ch3.2.3	15:23
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles; cool, it doesn't look too bloated. VMware's a bit too slow on my work laptop to do bits of Maemo stuff whilst at work	15:23
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ShadowJK	could GPS be made faster, theoretically, if one downloade ephemeris from some place that has the ephemeris for all satellites?	15:23
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ShadowJK	Does the A-GPS tool in diablo already do this?	15:23
Jaffa	ShadowJK: That's exactly what it does.	15:24
ShadowJK	nice	15:24
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ShadowJK	I had the N810 in the pocket yesterday when I went shopping, then when I came home I discovered maemo mapper had managed to track some of my movements inside the mall.. I was impressed	15:24
ShadowJK	not diablo	15:25
crashanddie	ShadowJK, yeah, it's kinda awesome in that way, I have to admit	15:25
lcuk_mob	when we were walking along at linuxtag i discoverde if you swing your 810 round your head gps thinks you are travelling at 40mph :D	15:26
lcuk_mob	anyway, must dash	15:26
lcuk_mob	back later	15:26
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lardman	jott: to answer the question about whether it has been inlined, I think so is the answer	15:29
jott	lardman: hm so other places have to be optimized :(	15:29
lardman	http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/dsp/sbc/sbc.asm	15:30
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lardman	sbc_analyze_audio() is the fn which loops and calls those two *eight/four() fn repeatedly	15:31
darkblue_b	does anyone know how to control the MediaPlayer's volume from the shell?	15:31
jott	mh the "CALL #I$$LMPY" looks suspicious	15:31
inz	dark, you might be able to do it with dbus-send — you could try to use dbus-monitor to find out the details	15:32
darkblue_b	dbus-monitor ?	15:33
\|tbb\|	have i understand it right, if i open agps-ui it asks supl.nokia.com where the sattelites are. from my last lat lon information which are stored in gconf	15:33
inz	dark, dbus-monitor is a tool with which you can monitor dbus-messages flying in the bus	15:34
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lardman	\|tbb\|: something like that, but it probably just directly uses the lat long from the map	15:35
darkblue_b	inz: sounds tricky	15:35
lardman	jott: yes	15:36
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inherited	hey. is there an application or way to play .flv-files on my n810?	15:36
lardman	jott: right at the end, it's an undefined external ref	15:37
atul	How to uninstall scratchbox ?	15:37
jott	lardman: do you have access to http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/summary/112651166/SUMMARY via your university?	15:37
lardman	not sure, am at home atm	15:38
lardman	but will have a look when I head back in	15:38
herwood	robtaylor: yeah, thanks again :)	15:38
darkblue_b	I see some refs to agps.. I have been interested in something really simple. telling the unit where you are aproximately, without the GPS mechanism	15:38
darkblue_b	I have an N800	15:39
lardman	darkblue_b: yes, we'd like an api to talk to supld	15:39
jott	lardman: ah you have to do some wild short/long casting	15:39
\|tbb\|	so i can store my lat lan position bymyself into gconf, but from what the map application will know where the sattelites are, will they always take the same tour so you know by anytime where the sattelites must stay	15:39
ShadowJK	Anyone else find the N810 headphone output noisy? :P	15:40
lardman	jott: I'm not quite sure where all those casts are coming from	15:42
jott	lardman: query .. :)	15:44
lardman	I$$LMPY is presumably a long multiply, though why it's a fn call I don't know, unless it will be expanded later on	15:44
ShadowJK	How does the volume work in N810 anyway, is it just making the DSP or something scale down the samples?	15:45
ShadowJK	Wondering if I'd get less noise if I set volume to max and added an analogue volume control	15:45
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ShadowJK	oh yeah, that did improve it somewhat	15:48
ShadowJK	heh	15:48
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ShadowJK	If I press stop in media player, the noise goes away too, then the touchscreen sounds also activate the noise, which stays there a second or so after the sound has been played	15:49
ShadowJK	or rather 3 seconds	15:50
ShadowJK	I guess the sound hardware is powered down when not in use	15:50
eichi	my rss feed reader doesnt take new feeds	15:52
ShadowJK	I've seen other people complain about low volume, but I have to set it to about 10% to not blow out eardrums with headphones	15:52
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robtaylor	herwood: did thatt work?	15:58
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pupnik	generally you do best playing high volume in software then reducing the volume at the last step in the chain (analog op-amp probably)	15:59
lardman	hmm, I've spotted something far more insidious, I've set the code to loop through 5000 times (when processing properly it does 5032 iirc) but not do any calcs	15:59
herwood	robtaylor: there is still something wrong	15:59
lardman	and it takes ~18s, vs ~20s with processing	15:59
derf	pupnik: Unless you start clipping, of course.	15:59
lardman	damn, my first testing was wrong, looks like the hold up may well be in the data transfer	15:59
herwood	robtaylor: in the glib-bind file, should there be this: <interface name="com.nokia.ObexServer.Handler">	15:59
lardman	~lart lardman for not double checking	16:00
* infobot lowers lardman's priority for not double checking		16:00
herwood	robtaylor: or should the interface name be my own eg. org.my.interface?	16:00
jott	haha @infobot ;)	16:00
RST38h	lardman: have you got disassembly somewhere?	16:02
jott	RST38h: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/dsp/sbc/sbc.asm	16:02
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RST38h	thanks	16:03
robtaylor	herwood: the former, you're implemebting an interface	16:03
robtaylor	herwood: sounds like you have a confusion between bus names an interface names	16:03
robtaylor	herwood: have a slow read of the dbus spec ;)	16:03
herwood	robtaylor: yeah, I've read it a couple of times but there are still stuff that I just don't get.. :P	16:06
RST38h	Codel ooksok although I do not quite understand how memory locations are defined	16:06
robtaylor	herwood: heh	16:06
robtaylor	herwood: think of well known bus names like dns, uniqe bus names (":1.0") like ips	16:07
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robtaylor	herwood: interfaces are scoping namespaces	16:07
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lardman	RST38h: I think this may be an ARM->DSP->ARM transfer bottleneck	16:07
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herwood	robtaylor: ok, but how can I tell that I'm implementing the com.nokia.ObexServer.Handler -interface?	16:08
jott	lardman: can you measure arm->dsp and dsp->arm separately?	16:09
herwood	damn, my brains are freezed.. :S	16:09
lardman	jott: I'll have to write some code and then test from the ARM side with "time"	16:09
herwood	*frozen	16:09
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lardman	hold fire on that, looking at the asm, the encode fn was still called	16:12
lardman	~lart having too many windows open	16:12
* infobot runs at having too many windows open with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut		16:12
herwood	robtaylor: hmm, I think the xml-file is now working	16:12
RST38h	lardman: quite possible	16:13
RST38h	lardman: is there a reasonably reliable version that I can test with BT headphones though?	16:13
herwood	robtaylor: but should the conf-file include this line: <allow send_interface="com.nokia.ObexServer.Handler"/>	16:14
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herwood	robtaylor: or my own interface in the send_interface..?	16:15
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lardman	Right, some confirmed figures now; 5022 data passes (512 8bit bytes from ARM->DSP and 76 8bit bytes (iirc) DSP->ARM) with no encoding, takes 9.21+0.94+2.92s	16:17
lardman	so about half the time is spend shifting data around (as the with encoding case was ~18s +..+..	16:18
robtaylor	herwood: both	16:18
herwood	oh	16:18
X-Fade	lardman: Doesn't that seem like a really low data rate?	16:18
jott	lardman: yieks is this supposed to be that slow?	16:18
robtaylor	herwood: i presume your implement a) a serveice that has an interface and a well known bus name	16:18
lardman	Yes, very slow	16:19
robtaylor	herwood: and b) its also implement a handler inetrface so it can be called by the obex stuff	16:19
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X-Fade	lardman: Can't you pass larger batches of bytes instead of only 512?	16:19
RST38h	lardman: something is majorly wrong	16:19
lardman	X-Fade: That's what the bluez code gives me; I could do, but it would produce latency	16:19
herwood	robtaylor: yeah	16:19
robtaylor	herwood: also note that those interfaces are probably on different objects	16:20
X-Fade	lardman: Can't you just double the amount to see if it takes the same time?	16:20
lardman	The DSP encode still takes far too long, the ARM code was closer to 3s for the whole lot	16:20
robtaylor	herwood: so two seperate lots of introspextion xml	16:20
lardman	X-Fade: not with this code, I'm tricking sbcenc into thinking I'm encoding data; I will write a test task to see how long it takes	16:21
herwood	robtaylor: these things are pretty complicated.. :D	16:21
lardman	X-Fade: There are other options for passing the data, atm I use bulk transfers, but shared memory may be a better bet	16:22
RST38h	lardman: if there is a shared memory option, use it by all means	16:22
RST38h	lardman: 'cause this is what you are supposed to use =)	16:22
X-Fade	lardman: A 2400 BAUD modem transfers data faster, something must be wrong ;)	16:23
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lardman	RST38h: yes, I'll work out how to do the synchronisation with that; I used bulk as it's simple and I thought it was fast enough	16:23
herwood	robtaylor: do you know any good tutorial or document where there things are described?	16:23
lardman	X-Fade: you'll probably find that the amount of data is immaterial, there is simply lots of overhead	16:23
RST38h	lardman: use a memory location at the end of the buffer - set it to 1 on ARM side, then set it to 0 on DSP side when it is done	16:24
X-Fade	lardman: yeah, that is why you should try to transfer larger blocks or shared mem indeed.	16:24
herwood	robtaylor: I've only found the DBus tutorial, but it doesn't decribe all of these things	16:24
lardman	RST38h: and poll on the dsp/arm side while waiting?	16:24
lardman	RST38h: or rather a tight loop looking at that location?	16:25
RST38h	lardman: I would say, while(location) usleep(100000);	16:26
RST38h	100ms latency - should not be a problem for audio playback	16:26
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lardman	ok	16:27
robtaylor	herwood: yeah, its not great. I usually recommend looking at the examples in the source tree, or looking at other users of dbus-glib	16:27
lardman	Will need to shift the sbc code out of the task and into a thread to avoid poll errors	16:27
lardman	should be a quick job though	16:27
lardman	(fingers crossed :)	16:27
herwood	robtaylor: yeah, I'll take a look at it	16:28
AStorm	drako: well, I'm yet to try to run wifi on something newer	16:33
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AStorm	I can build it for all kernels, but I think there was some kobject change which breaks umac.o nicely	16:34
AStorm	making it dereference NULL - a blasphemy ;P	16:34
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AStorm	I suspect it might even work up to and including 2.6.23	16:35
AStorm	ofc to build wifi for newer kernel, you have to hack the build system etc.	16:35
AStorm	and strip most symbols from {umac,mtum}.ko, readd them with a hack ;P	16:36
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hrw	~curse maemopadplus autors	16:50
infobot	May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, maemopadplus autors !	16:50
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drako	sorry AStorm I was away	16:55
hrw	where I can find libgps{bt,mgr)-dev?	16:56
drako	AStorm i'm doing my first kernel compilation for the n810 going to flash it now	16:57
wnd	hrw, I think they're part of maemo sdk, and optionally installed to $HOME/maemo-sdk-nokia-binaries_$VERSION/. apt-repository entry is added to sources.list if you let the installer to do so.	16:58
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GeneralAntilles	lol, the quote on the bottom of the page here seems to be almost entirely lifted from wikipedia: http://www.ddj.com/java/208801979;jsessionid=GZLX3TP3Z1XI0QSNDLPSKHSCJUNN2JVN?pgno=3	17:05
wnd	I think it's rather rule than exception to quote wikipedia without quotes or references to it	17:08
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GeneralAntilles	Doesn't make it right. ;)	17:09
GeneralAntilles	I like how he completely misinterpreted the stuff he actually seems to have written himself, though.	17:09
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jott	GeneralAntilles: "Java and the Nokia N10 Internet Tablet" haha also a nice typo in headline ;)	17:10
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jott	mh	17:12
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sp3000	meh, just another off-by-eight-hundred error	17:12
RST38h	GA: DrDobbs hacks also plagiarize Wiki now?	17:12
RST38h	[Where is this world going?]	17:13
GeneralAntilles	Heel	17:16
GeneralAntilles	s/Heel/Hell/	17:16
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: Hell	17:16
GeneralAntilles	I blame Nokia.	17:16
derf	GeneralAntilles: In a Handbasket.	17:17
RST38h	Why not Microsoft though?	17:17
RST38h	Or Google.	17:17
GeneralAntilles	Because Microsoft hasn't released any products codenamed "Diablo". :P	17:17
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crashanddie	having fun ?	17:20
GeneralAntilles	Stupid focus bugs are stupid.	17:20
crashanddie	hence the name	17:21
GeneralAntilles	That's the one thing that really pisses me off about modern operating systems.	17:22
GeneralAntilles	They like to decide where the focus should be, and it's frequently not actually where I want it to be.	17:22
derf	It's not just operating systems.	17:23
derf	I've yet to see a Mozilla-based browser with a sane focus policy.	17:23
GeneralAntilles	MicroB's "pay attention to me" bug is fun.	17:23
derf	It's almost as if the people developing it don't _have_ keyboards, or don't know how to use them.	17:23
GeneralAntilles	"Look! I'm doing things!"	17:24
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deebus	has anyone experienced any problems with modest mail using gmail?	17:25
wnd	yes	17:25
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deebus	wnd: is a problem connecting to smtp.gmail.com?	17:27
deebus	no matter what settings I try, it can't connect to send mail	17:27
deebus	pop works fine, but smtp doesn't connect	17:27
wnd	well, the last I checked I didn't have any real blocker problems. I just didn't like the way how modest always downloaded all mail headers instead the latest 50 I had configured it to do get.	17:28
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deebus	wnd: what are your smtp settings? maybe I have something set up incorrectly	17:28
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wnd	let me check if I still have the settings in place	17:28
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luogni	deebus: i started having problems with gmail/smtp yesterday!	17:28
luogni	deebus: it seems that sometime mails are sent but modest reports a problem	17:29
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deebus	I can't even connect to smtp.gmail.com	17:29
wnd	seems that I don't have any email settings defined for modest right now	17:29
luogni	deebus: i had no problem for example 3 or 4 days ago.. always using modest and diablo	17:29
luogni	deebus: on ho i can connect fine	17:29
luogni	deebus: smtp.gmail.com port 465 iirc	17:29
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deebus	is it set to ssl or tls?	17:30
luogni	ssl	17:30
luogni	login authentication	17:30
deebus	yeah, that's what I have. seems it can't connect to the box	17:31
deebus	is there a way to get more detailed information about why it errors out like that?'	17:31
deebus	like dumping std. err to std. out, or something like that?	17:31
luogni	deebus: don't kwno.. but tell me if you find something :)	17:31
X-Fade	deebus: It works for me.	17:31
luogni	now it works for me too	17:32
luogni	but yesterday wasn't working.. maybe a gmail problem	17:32
luogni	i didn't test with another client..	17:33
deebus	lol	17:34
deebus	I must have been tired when I set that up last night...	17:34
deebus	smtp.google.com != smtp.gmail.com	17:34
deebus	I am an retarded	17:34
qwerty12	*a retard :P	17:35
deebus	right. I was laying it on thick...	17:35
qwerty12	I'm only joking :)	17:35
deebus	well I'm glad we were able to figure out my boner	17:36
deebus	...I'm in a strange mood this morning	17:36
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deebus	thanks folks	17:41
deebus	I'm going to go pull another boner. my own, of course	17:41
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JamieBennett	I'm trying to save a file with my app to /usr/share/applications/app_name. In scratchbox thats fine, on the tablet this dir is made root. Any idea's on how to install the app with this directory writeable?	18:05
hrw	JamieBennett: please learn how unix system works	18:06
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hrw\|gone	see you on guadec guys	18:06
JamieBennett	LOL I think I know how it works hrw	18:07
JamieBennett	I've used it for the last 13 years :)	18:07
jott	hrw\|gone: have fun.	18:07
hrw\|gone	JamieBennett: then why you think that user has write permissions in /usr/ dirs?	18:07
hrw\|gone	user should not touch outside of $HOME and /tmp/	18:08
JamieBennett	I'm trying to package an app up that stores a file it has downloaded. I was under the impression that the tablet apps had to store stuff under their app dir under /usr/share, that obviously isn't the case then. $HOME it is then	18:08
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lardman	hmm, semaphores don't appear to ever time out on the DSP...	18:13
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mrlanrat1	Hey, My charger for my N810 just broke, it is covered by the warantee?	18:30
GeneralAntilles	How'd it break?	18:30
qwerty12	mrlanrat1, is it a standard nokia charger?	18:31
mrlanrat1	tes	18:31
mrlanrat1	*yes	18:31
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nomis	mrlanrat1: it probably is covered by warranty, but I'd recommend to get a cheap substitute yourself.	18:31
nomis	mrlanrat1: otherwise you'd probably have to send in the whole package including the N810.	18:32
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qwerty12	Dunno if it is covered by the warranty but it shouldn't be expensive to get a new one. My N800's charger works in N80 and my brothers N73.	18:32
mrlanrat1	Im not too sure, But this morning when I unpluged it from charging it had a lot of difficulty coming out, when I got it out the plug is bent.	18:32
nomis	mrlanrat1: uh. Is the pin inside the N810 still in the center of the hole?	18:32
mrlanrat1	Id need to send my N810 in just to get a new charger???	18:33
mrlanrat1	no, the plug on the charger	18:33
mrlanrat1	the pin is fine	18:33
nomis	ah ok.	18:33
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nomis	mrlanrat1: well, chat with your dealer, but I had a similiar problem with my N800 some time ago, the german nokia shop was unwilling.	18:34
mrlanrat1	I bought mine off the official nokia store	18:34
mrlanrat1	online	18:34
GeneralAntilles	Amazon usually stocks the Nokia chargers for about $2.50 a piece	18:34
* nomis too		18:34
GeneralAntilles	shipping is a little heavy, though.	18:34
GeneralAntilles	Get 3 or 4 of them and spread 'em around the house. ;)	18:34
nomis	yeah, getting a cheap 3rd party charger is probably way easier than trying to figure out how the warranty is supposed to work.	18:35
mrlanrat1	yha, but I dont want to buy a new one, I just want to get mine replaced, and it should be free, I dont feel I should need to send my N810 in also.	18:35
nomis	mrlanrat1: well, the only way then is to ask them.	18:35
GeneralAntilles	$6	18:36
GeneralAntilles	http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FTG6EA	18:36
qwerty12	That's not a bad price.	18:36
* qwerty12 goes amazon.co.uk		18:36
mrlanrat1	ok (looks for N810 box for warantee card)	18:36
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mrlanrat1	~$5	18:37
qwerty12	I think infobot charges more :P	18:37
GeneralAntilles	Probably cost you more to ship the charger back to Nokia.	18:37
mrlanrat1	they dont give you free shipping?	18:38
drako	to flash a new kernel do i need to restart n810 like when i upgraded to diablo?	18:38
qwerty12	drako, you restart after flashing kernel	18:38
qwerty12	(depends on which tool you use to flash)	18:38
GeneralAntilles	They'll ship it to you for free	18:38
GeneralAntilles	but you still have to ship it to them.	18:38
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drako	no i mean i need to turn it on so that he gets the new kernel?	18:38
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drako	the flasher tool	18:39
nomis	AC4E: 4 EUR at german amazon... :)	18:39
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mrlanrat1	Nokia should change that, with most companys (like HP with my laptop) they pay for you to ship it to them and for them to ship it back	18:39
jott	drako: yes, you need to reboot and use the flasher tool	18:40
GeneralAntilles	"most companies"	18:40
GeneralAntilles	Where are you getting your statistics?	18:40
jott	drako: you can also just boot the kernel without flashing	18:40
mrlanrat1	sorry, good point...	18:40
drako	how can i do that jott ?	18:40
jott	drako: flasher --load --boot --kernel kernelImage	18:40
mrlanrat1	the warantee book does not have any information...	18:40
GeneralAntilles	Call them	18:40
GeneralAntilles	They can tell you.	18:40
jott	and if all is fine flasher -f -k kernelImage to actually flash	18:41
drako	thank you :)	18:41
mrlanrat1	where can I find the number?	18:41
GeneralAntilles	Probably on their website. . . .	18:41
mrlanrat1	yha, already looking	18:41
drako	ok i getting a stupid error Sending request 0x01 failed	18:42
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mrlanrat1	o, great.... They are closed today.. Ill need to wait till monday.	18:43
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qwerty12	Just a quick q, which is correct? -mcpu=arm1136j-sfp or -mcpu=arm1136j-s ?	18:44
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drako	could someone help me with that?	18:44
mrlanrat1	GeneralAntilles, thanks for the link I will probably end up getting that.	18:44
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drako	can't get flasher to work could someone help me?	18:53
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: I'm pitching a lightning session at the summit of using tablet-encode and its GUI	18:53
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GeneralAntilles	Sounds cool	18:54
drako	ok now how can i check i it started with the new kernel?	18:57
qwerty12	Try something like uname -a or cat /proc/version	18:57
drako	:-P me stupid!	18:58
eocanha	Someone could tell me what's different among the autobuilder environment and a normal Diablo scratchbox environment?	18:58
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eocanha	This way of autodetecting if I'm on Maemo doesn't work:	18:58
eocanha	PKG_CONFIG=/usr/bin/pkg-config	18:59
eocanha	if $PKG_CONFIG --exists libosso && readlink /etc\|grep -q ^/targets; then MAEMO......	18:59
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inz	eocanha, why do you need to detect if you're on maemo?	19:02
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eocanha	because my package can build on maemo and also on plain gnome	19:02
eocanha	(using Hildon libs or not depending on the build environment)	19:02
inz	Why don't you just use what's available?	19:02
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eocanha	I need to detect what platform I'm in	19:04
* qwerty12 shouldn't have used ke-recv-test y/day >.<		19:05
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kulve	eocanha: so, you don't want to know for what platform you are building for but you want to know if you are building for hildon or plain gtk?	19:16
kulve	(hildon does exist on other platforms than Nokia's tablets..)	19:16
eocanha	yes, I explained myself bad	19:16
kulve	so, check for hildon. If found, use it	19:16
kulve	many libraries or applications use pkgconfig check in configure and makefiles to do that. I'm sure you'll find some good example	19:17
Atarii	so i want to compile some drivers for my nokia, what do i need to install to do it directly on the device?	19:18
kulve	too much	19:18
eocanha	thanks	19:18
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drako	time to go home	19:19
drako	thank you very much guys	19:19
drako	enjoy and c u all tomorrow	19:19
drako	cheers	19:19
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inz	foo.	20:11
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sp3000	ehm	20:19
sp3000	what's an idiomatic way to check if there are any /im/in/ur/path/*.extension files around in shell?	20:19
* sp3000 is only coming up with buckets of lame		20:20
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lardman	if I do: sbc->output_flag = (short *)(buf+2); will the +2 be bytes or shorts?	20:26
* sp3000 writes ls /im/in/ur/path/*.extension >/dev/null 2>&1 and looks a bit sad		20:28
lardman	sorry sp3000, I don't know	20:28
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GeneralAntilles	lol, dneary, having fun cleaning up that article all by your lonesome? :P	20:43
dneary	Doing it right now :)	20:43
dneary	At least the "putting tablet into USB mode" bit	20:43
dneary	But I don't have all the info	20:43
GeneralAntilles	I'd help, but I don't use usbnet	20:43
lardman	I can help from memory ~5 years ago on the Zaurus :)	20:44
GeneralAntilles	Seems like a lot of that stuff should really just be dumped	20:44
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lardman	I should have some time tomorrow to look at stuff though	20:47
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lardman	I will import the dspprogramming page, almost promise :)	20:47
* GeneralAntilles shakes his head.		20:48
GeneralAntilles	itT is so not worth it anymore.	20:48
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kulve	lardman: won't that +2 be in the units of buf?	20:48
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kulve	lardman: i.e. the +2 is first, then the cast to short *	20:49
dneary	I'm thinking of simply taking out the "configuring your host" sections	20:50
dneary	They definitely need to be shorter	20:50
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GeneralAntilles	They're really overwhelming	20:50
dneary	It should be "insert kernel module X, ensure that there's an if script for usb0, plug in the tablet and cross your fingers" or whatever	20:50
GeneralAntilles	and there's way too much distro-specific nonsense	20:50
dneary	I've stripped over half the page already in the first section, and a quick elimination of doubled-up information	20:51
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Talus_n810	hello	20:52
Talus_n810	:)	20:52
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Talus_n810	a friend of mine asked me if existed a maemo version to install into ipaq pdas	20:53
Talus_n810	is there?	20:53
kulve	Talus_n810: nope (afaik)	20:53
Talus_n810	ok	20:54
Talus_n810	that would be awsome	20:54
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lardman	kulve: I hope so, just checking	21:02
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lardman	Talus_n810: There used to be an OpenEmbedded Maemo target, but I think it's not maintained any more	21:03
Talus_n810	i c lardman	21:04
Talus_n810	is there documentation for that?	21:04
lardman	Talus_n810: certainly not here, perhaps in the openembedded mailing list, but most likely you'd need to talk to koen	21:05
Talus_n810	i have some rookies here that i could ask to try that	21:05
lardman	I think it's well out of date now though	21:05
Talus_n810	i mean get into it	21:05
Talus_n810	i'm not expert in embed stuff or OS	21:06
lardman	try koen on #Angstrom or #OE and see what he has to say about it	21:06
Talus_n810	cool !	21:06
lardman	but make sure you know what you want to ask, he gets impatient :)	21:07
Talus_n810	ok :)	21:07
lardman	come back to me if you don't get any sense and I'll have a chat with him	21:07
Talus_n810	thanks	21:08
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tich	http://theworldismycanvas.com/	21:13
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* GeneralAntilles paints graffiti on n800n's garage door.		21:14
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n800n	as soon as i finish this book i'm reading on the n800 i'm gonna switch to diablo	21:15
n800n	i think	21:15
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n800n	i f i get the balls.	21:15
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ralann\|mbp	heh	21:18
ralann\|mbp	i sqitched a couple days ago	21:18
lcuk	n800n, if you add the right rpoe, you can just do "apt-get install balls"	21:18
lcuk	repo^	21:18
n800n	haha	21:18
Talus_n810	what book is that?	21:18
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n800n	brave new world	21:18
ralann\|mbp	it's actually not a painful upgrade	21:18
qwerty12_N800	you won't find that package on lcuk's repo :p	21:19
n800n	haha	21:19
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ralann\|mbp	the builtin email program is actually usable	21:19
n800n	i use webmail	21:19
lcuk	no qwerty12_N800 there isnt enough space to fit them in	21:19
n800n	i've read 6 books in fbreader so far	21:20
n800n	if not more	21:20
qwerty12_N800	heh	21:20
* _matthias_ loves the new integrated mail program		21:20
n800n	i love having all those books with me	21:20
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RST38h	Oh dear! They have fixed the Modest crash bug!!!	21:27
lcuk	they didnt fix the firefox 3 crash bug though, mines just vanished	21:28
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Addison	qwerty!!! What's up homie? :o)	21:30
andre___	RST38h, well, happens. :-P	21:31
GeneralAntilles	lol. . . .	21:31
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Addison	Hey jott, any chance you're conscious right now? :)	21:33
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timelyx	andre___: ping timeout :)	21:38
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jott	Addison: more or less ;)	21:39
timelyx	X-Fade: i thought i saw nix earlier this week ...	21:40
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timelyx	sp3000: on windows, iirc where.exe has specific support for searching PATH :)	21:42
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RST38h	andre: Well, if it only were available as an update...	21:45
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GeneralAntilles	RST38h, svn?	21:45
RST38h	GA: I am too lazy to compile system packages from SVN	21:45
RST38h	extras-devel is the most I can make myself use	21:45
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GeneralAntilles	johnx compiled it yesterday	21:46
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GeneralAntilles	I'm sure you can talk him into tossing you a binary	21:46
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RST38h	GA: =)	21:47
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andre___	RST38h, i do hope that they are going to ship an Email and Browser update. Too many bugs, IMO	21:49
GeneralAntilles	Ha	21:49
GeneralAntilles	Too many indeed. . . .	21:49
lcuk	but this is the cast iron test of diablo is it not?	21:50
jott	heh now if this only would not break osso-software-version-* :p	21:50
timelyx	andre___: thanks for pushing the google presentations thing :)	21:51
GeneralAntilles	jott, install osso-software-version-rx*4-unlocked	21:51
timelyx	btw, definitely use the logger when you run into browser reports :)	21:51
jott	GeneralAntilles: as enduser?!	21:51
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andre___	timelyx, we're good citizens, aren't we? ;-)	21:51
timelyx	andre___: we're going to try to have a number of updates (no guarantees)	21:51
andre___	yeah, i heard rumours...	21:52
timelyx	andre___: nice and painless logging eh, ? :)	21:52
GeneralAntilles	Er, what's your point? If you're installing a compiled Modest svn, then you can probably manage an apt-get install, if it's being pushed via SSU, then osso-software-version gets updated.	21:52
andre___	yupp	21:52
* lcuk strokes https://garage.maemo.org/projects/liqbase/ (still empty atm)		21:52
jott	GeneralAntilles: yep, only wonder if they really bump the o-s-v for every "minor" package update :)	21:52
GeneralAntilles	They'd have to.	21:53
timelyx	jott: we plan to	21:53
* jott does not care about osso-software-version-* at all		21:53
keesj	lcuk: going open source?	21:53
timelyx	that's the package that gets updated	21:53
timelyx	everything else is pulled in by dependencies	21:53
lcuk	keesj :) yes	21:53
keesj	good	21:53
lcuk	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21556	21:53
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* timelyx sighs		21:54
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timelyx	lcdd: that'll be on mxr.maemo.org/garage w/ the next sync, after i get more quota space :)	21:54
timelyx	err	21:54
timelyx	s/lcdd/lcuk/	21:54
timelyx	andre___: anyway, did the bugs.maemo.org change bite you badly?	21:55
jott	lcuk: still hesistating?! :)	21:55
timelyx	(the sun is setting on this conversation, quite literally)	21:55
lcuk	timelyx, not yet it wont, ive still got to compile and learn about svn for the tablet	21:55
lcuk	not at all jott, ive given the source to some folks now	21:55
lcuk	its all tagged up, just making arrangements	21:56
jott	sweet	21:56
andre___	timelyx, well, i was surprised. but hey, i won't contradict anybody who minimizes my workload :-P	21:56
GeneralAntilles	timelyx, I was thinking about throwing the "maemo.org isn't actually part of Maemo Software"-wrench into the works. :D	21:56
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, thanks	21:56
andre___	it's good to see that it's possible. and i like it, it's not that intrusive and probably the best way to keep the house clean	21:57
lcuk	qwerty12_N800, :P you shouldnt have it yet	21:57
timelyx	lcuk: oh, it'll probably take me a month before that happens	21:57
timelyx	GeneralAntilles: the website product should move to maemo.org	21:57
lcuk	thats ok, it might take me a month to get svn on my 810	21:57
timelyx	and Misdirected can move to anywhere	21:57
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, i'm patiently waiting :) :p	21:57
timelyx	i just can't do anything like that until andre___ decides it's ok to frighten users	21:57
timelyx	atm there are a handful of people who can see it	21:58
Edgester	hi, I'm getting the kernel error "JFFS2 compression type 0x07 not available." when trying to modify the rootfs image on a ubuntu machine. what should I do to add LZMO compress to jffs2 on my desktop?	21:58
andre___	timelyx, i assume that guenther and me will discuss a lot of stuff this week when meeting at guadec. after that we can go on	21:58
timelyx	i think website is the only product that moves to maemo.org	21:58
timelyx	andre___: ok	21:58
andre___	would fit better other there, indeed.	21:58
timelyx	anyway, it's a framework	21:58
lcuk	:) fair enough qwerty12_N800, its nothing special really but if its able to be used at all to improve the tablet experience for just a few people then im happy	21:58
andre___	s/other/over	21:58
timelyx	i left some notes w/ GeneralAntilles	21:59
timelyx	basically there needs to be a Nokia for ITVC and a maemo.org for Websites	21:59
lcuk	:) ive learnt so much this year and i wouldnt have done it without you lot	21:59
timelyx	as soon as either thing happens, everyone sees that extra screen	21:59
jott	Edgester: use a newer kernel or apply the appropiate patches to the current one...	21:59
timelyx	if you think people can deal w/ the extra screen, then good	21:59
GeneralAntilles	andre___, did I toss the proposal at you yet? https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Garage_bug_tracking_in_Bugzilla	21:59
timelyx	otherwise you could do a template ala mozilla.org	21:59
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, i know I won't be able to do anything with it but it seems really interesting to look at :)	22:00
Edgester	jott: what kernel version should I use? is there a newer distro that includes this?	22:00
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timelyx	GeneralAntilles: it's possible to disable the garage tracker	22:00
timelyx	at least per project	22:00
timelyx	i disabled it for browser when i became a garage admin :)	22:00
lcuk	qwerty12_N800, i just like having something that moves quick and responds well to my touch and stylus	22:00
lcuk	i am impatient	22:00
* andre___ takes a look		22:00
timelyx	if we migrate slowly, you can disable it project at a time	22:01
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Edgester	jott: where is the lzmo patch?	22:01
lcuk	anyway, now ive got all that i can start to build applications using the principles ive found	22:01
andre___	GeneralAntilles, looks great, thanks!	22:01
lcuk	ive already started to migrate to c++ so i can code up the bits which were getting hairy in c	22:01
timelyx	GeneralAntilles: if you want bits so that you can let other people see the way things are now, andre___ or i can give you browser-extras grant	22:01
timelyx	that way others can get a sneak peek and give feedback	22:02
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lcuk	jott, are you comfortable using svn on your desktop?	22:02
lcuk	or anyone	22:02
megabyte405	lcuk: need svn help?	22:02
timelyx	but if you want it from me, i think you have ~10 mins left until sunday :)	22:02
jott	Edgester: http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/5/4/168 i think this is the place where it occured	22:02
timelyx	GeneralAntilles:	22:03
timelyx	"This task is in the list of proposals, please help planning and getting it ready for a sprint. Add yourself if you are interested."	22:03
timelyx	add yourself /where/ ?	22:03
lcuk	megabyte405, i need svn itself on the tablet, i do all dev work directly on it (gcc etc on device) and files stored on mmc1	22:03
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megabyte405	ah	22:03
GeneralAntilles	timelyx, yeah, that was Quim's wording.	22:03
lcuk	so to get a decent workflow im gonna have to get svn running, but i dont know where to start	22:03
megabyte405	you could try installing from armel debian	22:03
jott	lcuk: you need an svn package for the device?	22:03
GeneralAntilles	Need to figure out a better structure for proposals, probably.	22:03
lcuk	yer jott	22:03
GeneralAntilles	It's from the global template, so it's not page-specific	22:04
jott	it's in chinook extras as "subversion"	22:04
timelyx	sure	22:04
lcuk	ive tried searching but google is no help... doh!	22:04
timelyx	but it's buggy in the global template	22:04
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Edgester	jott: thanks	22:04
lcuk	lol jott :) thanks, ill see if i can get it	22:04
timelyx	it either means "add yourself to a list in this page" or "add yourself in a list on the talk page"	22:05
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timelyx	at the very least it's dangerously ambiguous	22:05
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timelyx	(note that my wording is merely for clarity not for direct inclusion)	22:05
jott	lcuk: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/s/subversion/subversion_1.4.6-maemo1_armel.deb :)	22:05
lcuk	thanks jott, i was looking for svn	22:06
lcuk	:S	22:06
GeneralAntilles	How about "Put a note on the talk page if you're interested in picking this up" ?	22:06
jott	Edgester: might just check git.kernel.org and pull the patch there.. or just use the current release version	22:06
GeneralAntilles	or maybe, "Put a note on the talk page if you're interested in pushing this task."	22:06
timelyx	s/picking this up/helping work on this/	22:06
andre___	timelyx, GeneralAntilles: need to pack my suitcase and prepare some other stuff. see you later, i'll read the backlog :-)	22:06
timelyx	or that	22:06
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Addison44	Hey, quick question for you guys. Is there a way to remove the cursor in Xterm so that it doesn't appear?	22:07
GeneralAntilles	Later, andre___.	22:07
* sp3000 slaps supld		22:08
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sp3000	mind closing the connection some time soon?	22:08
* lcuk goes and reads the svn manual and tries to grok it		22:08
qwerty12_N800	Where's the wet fish!?!	22:08
dneary	Done	22:08
dneary	Anyone have a suggestion for the next WPotD?	22:09
Addison44	qwerty! What's up G Money Dog Nuts!?!!!	22:09
Addison44	Did you get my private message? For some reason, this server keeps chucking me out.	22:09
timelyx	GeneralAntilles: load https://bugs.maemo.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=permissions	22:09
qwerty12_N800	Addison44, no	22:09
GeneralAntilles	I see the new bit, timelyx.	22:10
Addison44	Hey qwerty, I asked how my favorite bold and smoldering volcanoe of virile manhood was doing. :)	22:10
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timelyx	GeneralAntilles: try turning it on for sp3000	22:10
timelyx	you can use him for feedback :)	22:10
Addison44	Hey qwert, any chance you might have an answer for that cursor Xterm thingie question I just posted?	22:11
qwerty12_N800	nope, sorry	22:11
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Addison44	Okay. Didn't think so. Thanks anyway though.	22:12
Addison44	Is there a way to get your Putty version to work full screen?	22:12
Addison44	I can't seem to find an option for that.	22:12
GeneralAntilles	timelyx, should be done.	22:13
GeneralAntilles	Updated the template, too.	22:13
sp3000	b-e!	22:13
qwerty12_N800	Addison44, Maybe it has to be done in the code, but i don't have the debianised code anymore :/ (+ I probably wouldn't figure how to either :/)	22:14
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sp3000	general \| suggestions?	22:16
sp3000	we do have enh	22:16
timelyx	sp3000: hrm	22:16
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, I meant to ask that one.	22:16
sp3000	(sure, I kinda see the mapping to bugs \| feature requests classes on garage)	22:17
sp3000	but I dunno if that's good legacy	22:17
timelyx	note: i don't know anything about garage	22:17
GeneralAntilles	I'd say, "no".	22:17
timelyx	but for browser-extras, it's likely that a lot of people would say "please port X"	22:17
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sp3000	yeah, that would have been guess #2	22:17
timelyx	i'd kinda like that to be easily seen as opposed to other thing	22:17
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timelyx	it should probably be called "Requested Ports/Packages"	22:18
timelyx	but that's way too long	22:18
* sp3000 clicks and finds out there actually is a #2 on freenode		22:18
timelyx	heh	22:18
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sp3000	it's rather small though	22:18
Nailor	Anyone familiar with any ssh askpass software for os2008?	22:18
timelyx	anyway, suggest a better name	22:19
timelyx	i think GAN can fix it	22:19
timelyx	you're right that the name is risky and likely to give the wrong impression	22:19
Nailor	i found one, but it's apparently for 2007	22:19
timelyx	one question is how many components should b-e get initially	22:19
timelyx	one for each package? one per package class?	22:19
timelyx	should everyone default to a component for "web site"?	22:20
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timelyx	since everyone w/ garage projects should have a web site	22:20
timelyx	and most likely it sucks	22:20
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timelyx	and it probably isn't their primary product	22:20
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timelyx	perhaps all garage projects should have 2 default components, general, website	22:20
GeneralAntilles	That makes sense	22:21
lcuk	qwerty12_N800, you have shown pictures of linux windows running seamlessly within xp	22:21
lcuk	whats that called?	22:21
GeneralAntilles	andLinux	22:21
* sp3000 would go with just General		22:21
qwerty12_N800	^^	22:21
sp3000	but I'm an organizational minimalist :P	22:21
lcuk	thanks GeneralAntilles and qwerty12_N800 :)	22:21
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lcuk	if i cant speed up c++ compilation times i might as well see if theres another way to solve it	22:22
Jaffa	andLinux is very cool. Very impressed with it today	22:22
timelyx	jaffa: how do you spell wEb-Site?	22:22
ShadowJK	the file manager just wiped all the videos on my cellphone via bluetooth D:	22:22
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lcuk	jaffa, is your week from hell over now then or are you in tomorrow?	22:23
Jaffa	timelyx: I usually use "website" or "web site". I've known style guides which insist "Web" should be capitalised.	22:23
qwerty12_N800	ShadowJK, Damn, got a lot of porn to get back? :p	22:23
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ShadowJK	I was going to move one video to N810, but accidentally had entire folder selected in left hand column, so I tapped Stop. Apparently it stopped transfering the files, but continued with the delete part of the move operation...	22:23
Jaffa	lcuk: going down to stay with the in-laws tomorrow for Mrs Jaffa's cousin's baby's birthday.	22:23
Jaffa	lcuk: you decide ;-)	22:23
Jaffa	Food ready. Beer o'clock.	22:23
lcuk	:D nice	22:23
lcuk	you need it	22:23
lcuk	jaffa, i ended up deciding on gpl 2 by the way, maximum sharing potential with other projects round here	22:24
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lcuk	ill leave artistic for another day	22:25
timelyx	GeneralAntilles/ sp3000: reload describecomponents	22:25
timelyx	https://bugs.maemo.org/describecomponents.cgi?product=browser-extras	22:25
timelyx	anyway, my time has expired	22:26
GeneralAntilles	Looks good	22:26
qwerty12_N800	btw lcuk, if you need any help with andlinux, let me know	22:26
GeneralAntilles	Thanks, timelyx!	22:26
timelyx	btw for the rest of the channel: yes, i know you can't follow that link today. try again next month	22:26
timelyx	(or ask GeneralAntilles)	22:26
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lcuk	thanks qwerty12_N800, im just reading the site now and getting requirements, it will also simplify matters if i can use a gui for svn and stuff	22:27
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qwerty12_N800	lcuk, i only ever use svn co, so i don't know about linux guis sorry.	22:29
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lcuk	its not really a gui i need, but im visual so ill just right click on a folder somewhere and push or pull latest	22:30
* lcuk hates remembering archaic incantations in the commandline		22:31
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GeneralAntilles	Such a Windows user. . . .	22:31
lcuk	visual developer :) and i dont think im doin so badly so far	22:31
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lcuk	i dont care what os it is, aint mac the same with point n click	22:32
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qwerty12_N800	you have terminal too in os x	22:32
lcuk	i have one in windows as well: doesnt mean i use it	22:33
RST38h	Macs only have One Button!	22:33
lcuk	some have none	22:33
qwerty12_N800	lol	22:33
*** GeneralAntilles changes topic to "http://mxr.maemo.org \| Diablo Released! \| http://maemo.org \| Maemo Summit: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008 \| Create the new maemo.org logo: https://wiki.maemo.org/maemo.org_logo_contest \| Help fix the Wiki Page of the day for July 4th: http://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_MMC_card"		22:33
GeneralAntilles	Ugh, I don't even want to look at that page.	22:33
GeneralAntilles	OS X is mostly *nix	22:34
lcuk	can't we "fix" it by starting again	22:34
qwerty12_N800	Did the usb networking one get fixed?	22:34
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lcuk	"to boot from mmc, invite a knowledgable friend round and whilst you make beers they will do it for you"	22:34
GeneralAntilles	http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking	22:34
GeneralAntilles	Mostly	22:34
GeneralAntilles	I'm not in love with it, though.	22:34
lcuk	i tried once	22:35
lcuk	miserable failure	22:35
GeneralAntilles	Somebody who knows penguinbait's stuff should probably write something up for that.	22:35
GeneralAntilles	and probably milhouse's script for slightly-more-involved but slightly-less-evil	22:35
* qwerty12_N800 has only ever used milhouses script		22:36
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GeneralAntilles	qwerty12_N800, you want to pull his instructions from itT, par them down a touch (Sardine can definitely go), update for Diablo and stick them on the wiki?	22:36
GeneralAntilles	The first and most striking issue with the "MMC" booting page is "MMC". <_<	22:37
qwerty12_N800	I could modify the script and have a go with the wiki but the script isn't exactlyfault tolerant.	22:37
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, that's true.	22:38
Edgester	Can I mount the rootfs image on the my n800?	22:38
GeneralAntilles	I'd do it myself, but I'm not entirely clear on the kernel modules step.	22:38
GeneralAntilles	I seem to remember insmodding stuff from the initfs, but I don't really recall.	22:38
GeneralAntilles	Edgester, turn it on?	22:38
GeneralAntilles	It definitely doesn't have enough RAM to mount the image itself.	22:39
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Edgester	Can I use block2mtd and mount the rootfs image that flasher uses on my n800 without flashing?	22:39
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qwerty12_N800	GeneralAntilles, the two insmod lines already present on that page for an N800 with os2007 would work with diablo, just replace 2.6.18-omap1 with 2.6.21-omap1	22:41
jott	or with $(uname -r) ;)	22:42
qwerty12_N800	i was coming onto that ;)	22:42
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GeneralAntilles	I'm working over the bootmenu part	22:42
jott	actually you don't need the bootmenu at all ;)	22:42
GeneralAntilles	True, but it's a recommended step.	22:43
GeneralAntilles	getting usbnet ssh recovery is good.	22:43
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jott	yeah otoh you can just use the flasher again to switch to mtd/flash boot	22:43
Edgester	eh, maybe I'll just flash to diablo	22:43
qwerty12_N800	jott, cal-tool/flasher-3.0 is long to use ;)	22:43
qwerty12_N800	when you could use bootmenu instead :)	22:44
GeneralAntilles	jott, think of the newbies.	22:44
jott	actually it's just "flasher --set-root-device mmc" and ready ..	22:44
GeneralAntilles	and bootmenu is just "pick the one you want from a list"	22:44
GeneralAntilles	and doesn't require a lot of fiddling in xterm	22:45
jott	iff you got the bootmenu.conf right...	22:45
GeneralAntilles	jott, why do you want them to use flasher, anyway. :P	22:45
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jott	hum? i used the bootmenu with chinook, but now i just use the normal initfs with mmc as root ;)	22:46
jott	i never booted from flash anyway after mmc was running ;)	22:46
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GeneralAntilles	Meh, works for you, but, personally, I'd rather have as many people as possible using the bootmenu	22:46
qwerty12_N800	^	22:46
GeneralAntilles	makes my troubleshooting work that much easier	22:46
jott	hm anyhow.. both ways are fine for me.	22:47
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GeneralAntilles	Which is good, but giving people unnecessary choices in guides like these generally just results in confusion. :P	22:47
jott	just using flasher is imho easier..	22:47
jott	heh	22:48
jott	well do what ever you think is best for an enduser ;)	22:48
GeneralAntilles	I am. :P	22:48
jott	maybe using rsync -a instead of tar is better..	22:49
AStorm	cp -a	22:49
AStorm	:>	22:49
jott	as rsync is apt-getable	22:49
AStorm	it wins	22:49
jott	or cp	22:49
jott	rsync --progress is just more verbose ;)	22:49
GeneralAntilles	Not a bad idea, somebody want to improve this script to handle that? http://www.nmacleod.com/nokia/bin/nupgrade.sh	22:50
AStorm	rsync tests the destination dir and removes files too	22:50
AStorm	so it's slower, it has to stat everything :>	22:50
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jott	but perception is faster as you got a progress ;)	22:51
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AStorm	time isn't ;P	22:52
RST38h	hurrah! Mastergear does x3 magnification in gamegear mode!	22:53
qwerty12_N800	it's meant for n00bs, think they are going to realise? :p	22:53
* RST38h is going to try magnifying vgba x3		22:54
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RST38h	Shit, Maemo version of libz is still somewhat broken	22:59
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qwerty12_N800	compile your own and replace the control with the maemo one. dirty, but ensures things don't fuck up for users :/	23:01
* qwerty12_N800 did that with kernel-diablo-flasher to distrobute rotation kernel :/		23:01
RST38h	It is not THAT broken though	23:01
RST38h	Just incompatible with some gz files packed with previous versions	23:01
RST38h	Yeaaah, a few people will be very happy with the new VGBA =)	23:03
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RST38h	What are the dimensions of a standard Maemo window?	23:07
RST38h	(internal dimensions I mean)	23:07
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Atarii	RST38h x3 now works in vgba?	23:08
Jaffa	Erm, 720x362 or something. There's a clear diagram on one of the "Introduction to Maemo" documents	23:08
RST38h	aha	23:09
RST38h	720x400 I guess	23:09
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lcuk	RST38h, internal, as in within maemo bits or with extra window framing	23:11
RST38h	Atarii: yep	23:11
Atarii	mega win	23:11
RST38h	rectangle inside the frame	23:11
RST38h	I am keeping the frame, it is tidier this way	23:11
Atarii	does it play .gb? or .gba only?	23:12
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lcuk	RST38h, isnt that theme specific?	23:12
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lcuk	ok, back later, giving control of pc away	23:14
RST38h	lcuk: don't think so	23:14
RST38h	Atarii: it plays gba	23:14
RST38h	VGB plays .gb and it is also coming	23:14
lcuk	do you find the games work ok after you cut the sides off them?	23:15
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lcuk	i ask because i wonder how you fit them into the mmc slot	23:16
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Atarii	ho ho ho	23:18
Atarii	ooo that reminds me, i need to trim my 2in1 mmc/micro sd adapter	23:18
RST38h	lcuk: melt and pour	23:18
pupnik	http://www.dimitrithelover.com/	23:20
pupnik	this guy is pretty amazing	23:20
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Atarii	link looks like gay pr0n :S	23:21
pupnik	lots of crappy scripts on the site but there's a funny interview with him - the guy is hilarious	23:21
* Jaffa has a mini rant on ITT about people saying "I won't have anything to contribute"		23:23
Jaffa	[at the Maemo summit]	23:23
RST38h	Jaffa: Contribute to what?	23:24
Jaffa	RST38h: to the Maemo Summit in September.	23:24
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* qwerty12_N800 imagines Karel Jansens at the summit... Or rather not ;)		23:25
RST38h	Oh	23:25
GeneralAntilles	He had a mild reformation, seemingly.	23:25
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RST38h	What is the problem with having nothing to contribute though?	23:26
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RST38h	GA: What? Pandora missed another release deadline, so he ran out of breath?	23:26
Jaffa	RST38h: exactly. You can't have everyone attending present something, you need attendees as well as presenters.	23:26
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GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, I think this is what threw people: "An only condition for you would be to contribute to the program somehow: present something in a lightning session, facilitate a BoF or a workshop..."	23:26
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RST38h	Jaffa: It is tickets + hotel + time off day job	23:27
kuzew	Hello all, what happend to hidd with Diablo? Doesn't seem to be there.. ):	23:27
RST38h	Jaffa: In other words, no way =(	23:27
Jaffa	RST38h: indeed; although Nokia've got some budget to fund people travelling. Personally, I want hotel better than hostel and can afford the expense (by finding cheap travel and cheap(ish) hotel) to fund it myself; leaving more of the budget available for others.	23:28
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RST38h	Jaffa: I would put more emphasis on making event distributed over internet	23:29
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Jaffa	RST38h: I suspect that will be orders of magnitude less successful.	23:29
RST38h	So that people participating remotely get the maximum presence experience	23:29
Jaffa	Not to say it shouldn't be done. It's just time consuming and sub-optimal (IMHO)	23:29
RST38h	Well, then at least select the location with most users	23:30
RST38h	On the other hand, it is probably US and it means that folks from Poland, etc. won't be able to attend =(	23:30
Jaffa	s/most users/most contributors/	23:31
Jaffa	Anyway, they're pinning it on the back of OSiM World (in Berlin); Nokia are from Finland; LinuxTag doesn't seem to suffer from being in Berlin; ...	23:31
pupnik	berlin is worth visiting	23:32
RST38h	expensive though	23:32
RST38h	will cost at least $1000, with tickets and all	23:33
RST38h	It is easy for Steve Jobs to gather the faithful as they only need to drive a few hours in most cases, but Nokia is different in this sense =(	23:34
Jaffa	RST38h: apply for sponsorship if you're that bothered; otherwise it sounds like you're griping cos it's not near you.	23:35
RST38h	Actually, it is relatively near me :)	23:35
Jaffa	Personally, I've absolutely no idea where most users/contributors are.	23:35
Jaffa	RST38h: ah, ok :)	23:35
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Jaffa	Expensive travel systems near you then?	23:35
RST38h	Jaffa: it would be interesting to find out though =)	23:35
RST38h	Jaffa: prolly e300 for a ticket from Moscow and back + hotel	23:35
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RST38h	Jaffa: not worth the money for me	23:36
Jaffa	Think of what it'd do to your reputation with Nokia though if there's an N900 discount programme ;-)	23:36
JamieBennett	Jaffa: Mmmm	23:37
RST38h	For this amount of money I would probably be able to just buy N900 unsubsidized :)	23:37
JamieBennett	I going for the free t-shirts ;)	23:37
Jaffa	RST38h: hence the sponsorship	23:37
Jaffa	JamieBennett: well, that too - hoping to pack light by getting freebies as spares :)	23:38
* RST38h made resizing a little bit TOO intelligent		23:38
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RST38h	it now resizes to 600x320 when in windowed mode	23:39
JamieBennett	Jaffa: I have one from some work I did before but its bright blue, hoping to bag a less garish one if they are available.	23:39
JamieBennett	Jaffa: Are you attending OSim aswell?	23:40
Jaffa	JamieBennett: hoping to; just need to confirm time off work.	23:41
Jaffa	JamieBennett: For some very odd reasons it looks like travel will be on a 5 hour train from Apeldoorn in .nl to Berlin on the Tuesday/Saturday - but for only 36 eur each way.	23:41
JamieBennett	I'm the same, hoping to go but I'll find out Monday if I can get the go ahead from work	23:41
pupnik	RST38h: has a valid issue with spending $1k on a conference. it's quite a good suggestion to think about at least a webcam stream + chatroom	23:42
JamieBennett	Jaffa: Where are you travelling from?	23:42
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Jaffa	JamieBennett: UK. But Mrs Jaffa & in-laws are going to Arnhem on the Monday and coming back the following Monday. So will tag along with them on the Monday and get the train on Tuesday. Was always planning to go back to them after the summit, but flights from Berlin to Amsterdam/Eindhoven/... are nightmarishly expensive.	23:43
jott	pupnik: you could also pay 4200 euro for the complete osim event ;)	23:44
JamieBennett	I'm going from Bristol on the Tuesday. Flights are <£60 return! I was pretty surprised at that.	23:45
pupnik	o_O	23:45
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lcuk	jaffa, for linuxtag i flew manchester->amsterdam->berlin and berlin->paris->manchester i had a great whistlestop airport tour	23:56
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