IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2008-07-04

qwerty12_N800~lart myself for moving my old initfs.jffs2 onto the computer, i need  to jack the diablo version of kotc's colour mod00:00
* infobot whips out his power stapler and staples myself's foot to the floor for moving my old initfs.jffs2 onto the computer, i need to jack the diablo version of kotc's colour mod00:00
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RST38hWomen working on Debian have been getting death threats from a nut job who believes they're killing free software.Á00:03
Veggenwoa. my n810 says "no availabe programs". something's wrong.00:03
Veggen(on "installable programs" screen)00:03
RST38hGA: See, how easy you have it with Maemo Wiki?00:03
JaffaRST38h: whoa00:04
towoVeggen: Quick, the world is ending!00:04
towoLoad the backup!00:04
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qwerty12_N800RST38h, is the retard named?00:04
RST38hDoesn't beat the "Massacre people, suicide, go to heaven, kill God" guy, but gets pretty close00:05
towoNamed retards? Is that something of a special class of enemy, like named monsters?00:05
RST38hqwerty: Of course not00:05
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qwerty12_N800sorry,i thought they know who done it.00:05
RST38hqwerty: But they would never say. Against Western sensibilities.00:06
jottand sometimes people are too stupid and leave obvious traces..00:06
RST38hShouldn't be difficult to trace down, most of the time00:06
qwerty12_N800heh, ke-recv-test is fun to play with, thx nokia for ossing it.00:08
Veggenthere's something wrong with resolving.00:08
AStormjott: bad comparison00:08
AStormmost apps aren't hello world00:08
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AStormthey're more complex, yet still use little of libc's power00:09
AStormso, in some situations, you can save space00:09
AStormesp. with a compressed filesystem (same code produces similar blocks which compress well)00:09
* Jaffa is registered for the summit :-) Cheap flight from Stansted to Berlin with Ryanair for 10ukp (not booked yet in case Quim says stuff about the stuff on Wednesday), found a nice Ibis Hotel for 74eur/night and then rail service from Berlin to Appledoorn for 36eur.00:10
AStormnote, that for 3 KB hello world you need 900 KB of libc00:10
AStormor more00:10
jottAStorm: well the (uc)libc is already there...00:10
Veggenhmmf. dnsmasq doesn't work.00:11
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AStormjott: but it's large, compare static busybox to dynamic one00:13
AStorm(and it's the most bulk of initfs)00:13
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, hehe, I guess so.00:13
AStormyou lose like, 30 KB vs 900 KB of libc00:13
qwerty12_N800what does apt-get update say the ip is? atarii on here fixed his problem of the repo "having" ip by putting dns server entry manually into resolver.conf00:14
AStormthat's one reason why busybox is one executable - to save space in static build00:14
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jottAStorm: what's your point? i have a ready libuClibc.* on the device, my claim was, "i will save space if i compile dynamically against this existing lib compared to statically linking against it" and i still don't think you proved me wrong..00:15
Veggenqwerty: it couldn't resolve anything.00:15
Veggenat all.00:15
Veggenafraid I had no energy to debug, I've had a few beers, but next time ;)00:15
Veggen(I rebootet. Shame on me)00:16
AStormjott: just rebuild busybox statically (and add some more utils while you're at it)00:16
AStormand dropbear00:16
VeggenI restarted dnsmasq without it helping.00:16
AStormmost other tools are not needed (maybe text2screen, but I think that has source code available too)00:16
AStormthere really isn't much on the initfs00:17
jottbme? dsme?00:17
jottstill i don't want to rebuild the initfs00:17
AStormdo as you wish00:17
jottdsme is not static, it uses serveral sos..00:17
AStormit's uclibc 0.9.2800:17
AStormjust drop its headers and you're done00:18
jottand even bme is dynamically linked00:18
AStormand you can build against it00:18
AStormheh, you could relink it statically even00:18
AStormnot sure how to do that with ld though00:18
jottbleh stop talking bs00:18
jottyou are wrong i accept your apology :p00:19
AStormno, I'm not ;P00:19
AStormI did a lot of crazy stuff back then00:20
AStormcan't remember though how to relink it00:20
jottbleh that has nothing to do with anything00:20
AStormyes, you only need headers for that uclibc00:21
AStormit's not patched in any special way00:21
AStormwould have to check which exact version00:21
jottand the right gcc :p00:21
AStormclose enough00:21
AStormthe same as in scratchbox00:22
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AStormsame version too00:22
AStormso, if you just dump uclibc 0.9.28 into scratchbox, you have the right toolchain ;>00:23
AStormno special stuff needed00:23
AStormI'd personally replace that handicapped build of busybox with a real one00:24
qwerty12_N800tar really needs to be built for initfs00:24
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AStormyup, and vi00:24
jottAStorm: ok, will try it this way.. thanks00:25
AStormwith more features00:25
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tw-nymThis may be the wrong place for the question but is there any way to flash an N810 from mac os x 10.5?  I try to run flasher-2.0.macosx and it tells me "Bad CPU type in executable" which I assume means "this was compiled for PPC"00:51
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GAN800it works fine on Intel.00:52
GAN800Try renaming it to flasher-2.0?00:52
tw-nymI'm using an intel mac.00:52
GAN800chmod +x ?00:52
tw-nymNo, there'd be a different error.00:53
tw-nymThe perms are right.00:53
GAN800it was something stupid00:53
tw-nymjust checked.  Tried renaming too, it didn't run.00:53
GAN800but I'm blanking on what it was00:53
Knirchdoes macosx has some standard identification utils, like 'file' ?00:53
tw-nymfile flasher-2.000:54
tw-nymflasher-2.0: Mach-O executable ppc00:54
tw-nymSo maybe I don't have rosetta installed properly?00:54
GAN800Ah, you know what, I think safari sometimes mangles the file00:54
infoboti heard maemo-logs is IRC channels are logged at
GAN800Redownload it?00:54
tw-nymAh... ok, I'll use FF to get it.00:54
GAN800Solution is probably in those logs if you want to google them.00:55
lcukok, let me ask this one simple license related question and my decision will be complete00:55
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lcukif i release liqbase under the gpl. as it stands i am still able to still grab all my code and compile it up inside a piece of software which i am commissioned by a company to create and have that as proprietary.   however what i cannot do is take any additional modifications which i merge into the main gpl version by other people.  and the modifications by others remain as gpl00:57
GeneralAntillesYou can do whatever the hell you want with the code you wrote00:57
GeneralAntillesYou can't do whatever the hell you want with patches people submit.00:58
tw-nymnot a lawyer but that sounds correct.  You can relicense whatever code you write however you please.00:58
lcukGeneralAntilles, NO, i cannot00:58
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lcukif people submit patches to a gpl project those patches are owned by the developer who submitted them00:58
GeneralAntillesOne solution is to require all patches to submitted under a license that would let you do that.00:58
lcukno, i would not attempt to do that00:58
lcuki know which is my code and svn/git will tell me00:59
GeneralAntillesOr just maintain a private fork.00:59
lcuki know what i want to use in other words00:59
lcukthats not the problem gen, im just being cautious00:59
lcukand garage tells me i have to choose a license00:59
lcuknot multiple licenses :) and the gpl is right00:59
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lcukGeneralAntilles, i dont want to burden the developers who may choose to assist me in creating great apps for maemo platform01:01
lcukbut if i am asked to do something proprietary for a company i can also still do that but i have to know whats mine01:02
* lcuk is trying to improve collaboration not stifle it01:03
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tw-nymGAN800: You were exactly right, safari mangled the binary.01:07
crashanddienotice his arrogance01:08
jottlcuk: otoh you could also choose a bsd-like license.. but gpl will ensure you'll always get the code from "forks"...01:09
crashanddiewhen he says "those who want to assist me in creating great apps"01:09
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crashanddielike, we're never going to be able to make anything great01:09
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crashanddieonly he can... And he might need some assistance at one point01:10
crashanddieI told you lcuk, you're going to have to get a new house... The one you have is starting to be small with such a huuuge ego :D01:10
timelyxJaffa: there are a couple of hostels in Berlin, i stayed at one a month or so ago...01:11
pupniki found some nice empty areas around the tracks behind the zoo :P01:11
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GeneralAntillestw-nym, it's server-side weirdness. :\01:13
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lcukcrashanddie im crap at lots of things in life, but i have a knack of finding a way of doing things.  lots of apps are much better than anything i will ever build - hence my incomplete modules.  but i *have* found a way to do this and i havent seen anyone else stepping up to even try01:14
GeneralAntillespupnik will rent you a sleeping bag for $10/hour01:14
* lcuk was very unhappy with the graphics of this nokia, but damn it looks good to me now :)01:15
crashanddielcuk, like I said, you're a maniac for doing what you did. Not a lot of us would have the moral capacity to think all this over, and keep such a project over the course of a few years.01:17
lcukthis is only the first part though, the facilitator so to speak01:18
lcuki cant do anything if i cant draw on the screen fast enough01:18
crashanddielcuk, plus, there's not a lot to step up, considering you "already own the niche", so either we wait for you to release something we'll be able to use, and go forward, all of us, either we start our own project, we're going to fuck everything over most probably, and it'll be yet another deadborn project01:18
lcukand tbh, i dont care if its used - it was done so i could expand on things01:18
lcukgood point, but competition makes life interesting01:19
lcuki really thought all the angles wouldv been done by now - we have been doing computer graphics for years01:19
lcuki was genuinely shocked when i realised it was so slow01:19
timelyxjott: choosing gpl isn't really helpful01:19
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timelyxbecause it ensures he gets code he can't use elsewhere from the forks01:20
timelyxbsd means less guarantees, but whatever comes should be usable anywhere01:20
lcuktimelyx, gpl will be fine, i know what i need and anything else built is niceness required for other projects - i just needed to draw lines tbh01:21
lcukand fonts*01:21
jotttimelyx: yes, i know.01:21
jott(that's why i came up with bsd in the first place ;-)01:22
lcukif it can be shaped into a library and usable for all the nice projects ive heard about (ie if its easy enough for others to use and does things in the general case) then thats an added bonus01:22
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flo_lapthen consider to use lgpl01:25
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lcukflo, hi, its not a library yet, its just a set of functions.  it needs a lot of moulding but i want it out there01:26
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lcukim sick of hearing how fluid the iphone is, and want to see if we can do similar :)01:27
jottlgpl would bring no benefit when he wants to accept patches (without extra constraints) and still use it in an closed app..01:27
flo_laplcuk: but if you have the idea in mind to shape it into a library it would be a useful thing01:27
flo_lapjott: uh?01:28
jottflo_lap: he might want to use his code base in an closed source project..01:29
lcukis it a compatable step to license liqbase as gpl then at a later date create a standalone liqlib (or whatever) and license that as lgpl, or are gpl<->lgpl transfers not permitted01:29
lcukjott, yes but i know which code is mine and i understand the implications01:29
jottlcuk: not when you accepted "gpl" patches01:29
flo_laplcuk: you can do this, but accepting patches is hard then01:30
lcukalright, so if i start as lgpl it is clearer for all concerned01:30
jottso you have to ask every contributor if he/she is fine with lgpl ..01:30
flo_lapthat's why lgpl is easier01:30
* jott does not like lgpl01:31
lcuki could use the microsoft shared license01:31
jottgpl < bsd < lgpl ;p01:31
* lcuk ducks01:31
flo_lapjott: we ran into this with gpe... splittinc code from applications into libraries.  that's a pain.01:31
jottotherway around ;)01:31
jottyeah just stick with gpl at a whole or use bsd ;p01:32
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lcukflo_lap, since you have a bit of experience, would there be implications if someone wanted to include (for instance) GPE sync or some other component01:33
flo_lapjott: I agree lgpl is not perfect, but it is easy to understand, widely used and most important: made for exactly this purpose: libraries01:33
jottflo_lap: yes, it has it purpose ;)01:34
lcuki've dreaded this conversation more than actually coding it01:34
flo_laplcuk: well... gpe has the same license model gnome uses: gpl for applications and lgpl for libraries.01:35
lbtI too think lgpl is appropriate for a library01:35
lcukor a future library01:35
flo_laplcuk: that's what we missed to take care of01:36
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* jott thinks there are people confusing the l in "lgpl" with "library" :p01:36
flo_laplcuk: so we had a pile of contributors who had to change their codes licenese01:36
derflcuk: What's the reason you want non-GPL'd applications to be able to use your code?01:36
lbtlcuk: have you actually carefully read the GPL and LGPL?01:37
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flo_lapjott: iirc that was the purpose ;)01:37
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flo_lapargh! another license discussion!01:37
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jott :)01:37
* jott hides01:37
lbtflo_lap: but this time there is code attached - so it's fair :)01:38
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lcukyes lbt01:38
lbtOK - just checking...01:38
lbtit's been a while - and I've not read v3 yet :)01:38
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lbtnone of this *really* matters until you get patches01:40
* jott infects lcuk with a highly contagious gpl virus01:40
lbtreleasing gpl code will prevent people from legally using it in commercial apps01:41
lcukyou are right lbt, but i am at the garage page and its forcing my hand01:41
lcukno, it will prevent them from using it in closed commercial apps01:41
lbtfrom prior discussions I think gpl01:41
lcuknothing wrong with selling a gpl program01:41
lbtmmm do you want help picking a license or arguing pedantry? :)01:42
lbtif you pick GPL now then *you* can pick LGPL later01:42
lbtif you pick LGPL now then other people can take the LGPL and use it in closed apps.01:43
lcukthe license which stood out when reading was the artistic license.  this fits with what i thought, but would not necessarily fit with other existing applications01:43
lbtis my understanding01:43
lcukie, if somebody decided to patch fbreader to use liqbase rendering01:43
lcukusing the binary is not the issue01:43
lcuklgpl does solve that case..01:44
lbtI *think* artistic is almost public domain (I'm not a license analyst) - very liberal (and 'nice') but not protective01:44
jottand if you are fine that others use your code in closed commercial apps, then bsd-like is the easiest solution01:45
lbtISTR you wanted to reserve the right to be the only one allowed to use the code in a closed app01:45
jottyou can accept patches and later turn into lgpl/gpl without much hassle or use it in your own closed app01:45
lbtif that is correct then it's important01:45
lbt(in choosing)01:45
lcukISTR has thrown me01:46
lbtjott: I think the key thing is "does lcuk want to make it hard to use his code in closed apps"01:46
jottyeah, if not, then i would thing bsd is the better choice01:46
lbtI seem to recall (we chatted about this a few days ago)01:46
jottas he can accept patches and still use it in his private closed project01:46
lbtyes - but01:47
lbtanyone else can take his code and use it in a closed app too01:47
lbtso lcuk - do you want (at the moment) to allow or hinder use of your code in other peoples closed apps?01:47
jottyes.. also with lgpl...01:47
jottthat's why i vote for either gpl or bsd :)01:48
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lbtjott: hence I suggest GPL is a 'safer' first release (until patches)01:48
lcukyes, i want to hinder closed apps01:48
jottwell then use gpl01:49
jotteasy as that ;)01:49
lbtno brainer01:49
lcukright, decision made :) thank you01:49
lcukcanola is #101:49
lcukif they want it they can open themselves up01:49
jotthah infect canola with gpl :P01:49
lcukif not, tough01:49
lbtnb, in the future you *could* license your code to a closed app even if you release it GPL - cf Qt01:50
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lcukyes lbt, anything coded right up until patch day is clean and untainted.  anything after the waters are muddy, but git is meant to help, hence the request earlier01:50
lbtsrc dl'ed01:50
lcuk:) thanks01:51
* lcuk doesnt even know if canola needs it you know01:51
lcukanyway, ill go and scrub the code and add some headers01:52
lcukthank you all01:52
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lbtHULLO hullo hull hu02:15
MaximanderI keep getting sb2 errors02:15
Maximanderwhen trying to configure02:15
Maximander"checking whether the C compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs."02:15
Maximanderincluding when I do maemo-rootstrap install chinook40_armel02:15
Maximanderin the program i was building, ./configure ran fine, but sb2 ./configure encountered that error, so I went to re-init sb2, and got the error again during sb2-init02:17
lbtsorry Maximander, I had LD_PRELOAD issues with sb2 and haven't yet fixed them so I can't help :(02:17
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Maximanderwhere is config.log written?02:25
Maximanderduring sb2-init02:25
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Maximandersolved: echo 4096 | sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr02:28
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lbtnight all02:54
lbtlcuk - git on its way02:54
lcukahhhh cool, thank you v muchly02:54
lcuki was falling asleep at the desk when you binged02:55
lcuklbt, c++ compiles slower than straight c :(02:56
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skiburOpenssh + Openssh Client = fast root on Console and KDE03:39
skiburKDE Konqueror that is03:39
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skiburis Ubuntu mobile coming out for N8*0?04:29
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skiburanybody here?04:59
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Proteousna na na na05:22
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lcukYour project has been submitted to the garage administrators. Within 72 hours, you will receive notification of their decision and further instructions.05:35
lcukThank you for choosing garage05:35
lcukwhy did nobody tell me this sooner :'(05:35
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derflcuk: I can answer that question in 72 hours.05:39
pupnikif you ever meet a lawmaker05:39
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pupnikkick him in the nuts05:39
lcuk:S no05:39
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derfI'm pretty sure that's the worst person to kick in the nuts, second only to a policeman.05:40
pupniknobody deserves it more05:40
derfActually, a Marine.05:40
derfHe wouldn't worry about having to fill out paperwork later.05:40
lcukif wives had nuts im pretty sure they would be worse than any marine05:40
lcukor even worse: the mother in law05:41
derflcuk: You don't _need_ to kick them in the nuts to suffer their abuse.05:41
lcukthey are abusing you for future transgressions05:41
pupnikwell i LIKE german cops05:42
lcuknow, i have the source to liqbase all nicely tar.gz'ed ready to go into the garage05:42
derfAnd past transgressions. And imagined transgressions. And...05:42
pupniki have a cousin who is a detective05:42
lcukirc discussions about transgressions05:43
pupnikbut they are forced to prosecute idiotic stuff05:43
pupnikjust like we are all forced to... oh...05:43
pupnikobey a law that forbids me from marketing my latest invention05:43
lcukthey are bound by the 3 laws of robocop05:43
pupnikyeah well pardon me, my invention was freaking cool05:44
pupnikand socialism killed it05:44
pupnikbecause if a child drank my invention it might get sick05:44
pupniklike... with gasoline05:44
lcukyou invented vodka?05:44
derfpupnik: I'm actively arguing against kicking cops in the nuts.05:44
Grackle_Pfft pupnik, that's a problem that marketing can solve.05:45
pupnikoh i agree with that05:45
pupnikcops aren't lawmakers05:45
lcukrm_you, pssst05:45
rm_youlcuk: wha?05:46
lcukread up a few lines :P05:46
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rm_youlcuk: !!!!!!!!!!!!!05:46
lcuki made a decision today05:46
lcukwell, yesterday - ive headered and prepared myself05:47
lcukpm me your mail address05:47
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lcukhow did you do that05:48
rm_you /notice05:48
lcukfair enough :)05:48
rm_youwell, /notice lcuk <text> :P05:48
crashanddieanyway, I'm heading to home05:49
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crashanddie120euro extra for a few hours of coding, good enough :)05:49
lcukcrashanddie, :) good enough05:49
lcukrm_you, its on its way, buti left a description file out:05:55
lcuktechnology demo featuring finger friendly menus, variable resolution kinetic scrolling fullscreen document viewer, pressure sensitivity sketching with a graffiti wall showing all drawings, cpu throttling adjustments and a fullscreen starfield screensaver.05:55
* lcuk thinks he got all the keywords ;)05:56
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johnxthe key one being starfield :)05:56
lcuklol johnx yer05:57
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alsorhi, I want to know, if Metalayer crawler is open source?06:11
lcuknot sure alsor, am just heading off to bed06:11
alsorthanks :) good dream :)06:12
lcuksearch internettablettalk.com06:12
lcuksomeone should have already asked06:12
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alsorgot it:)06:14
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rm_youlol, cool lcuk :P06:47
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bexdoes anyone know why when i try to download from sometimes it says the package cannot be found?08:11
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atulHi my scratch box is failing while running this scipt  after exporting Display, start, the problem is, It wont launch display in Xephyr. Showing this error message
atulAny Idea ?08:22
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zappppIs there any documentation available about the internet connectivity daemons methods that I can call through D-Bus?08:25
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timelyxandre___: ping :)09:00
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inzatul, it sounds like you wouldn't have dbus -package installed09:04
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atul_inz, No I had install it was privioully all work fine but y'day onwords it won't09:16
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* timelyx eyes bug 3394 wearily 10:03
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inztimelyx, interesting, it has the same exact summary but different reporter and description10:10
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timelyxhow in the world does one do that?10:12
timelyxit's possible i left a template link out somewhere...10:13
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GeneralAntillesMaybe just a copy pasta?10:15
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timelyxi'm not quite sure what someone expects to get by doing that10:19
timelyxi mean, i do appreciate a well written summary if i did write it myself10:19
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GeneralAntilles"mebe if i reporter this bug twice eht'll get fixed fastar"10:21
GeneralAntillesOr maybe they think the old report is just for Chinook?10:21
GeneralAntillesWho knows10:21
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GeneralAntillesIs just completely broken for anybody else?10:38
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doc|homeGeneralAntilles: working here10:41
GeneralAntillesGuess the WebKit browsers are choking on it.10:41
* doc|home zZzZz10:41
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doc|homelooked fine for me10:44
atul_/usr/share/fonts/X11/misc and /usr/share/fonts/X11/cyrillic Hi this package is not available in my system How to install them any Idea ?10:44
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rm_youjust watching the latest two eps of Dr Who10:51
rm_youam I supposed to know who Sarah Jane is? I think I remember her kinda, but i have no idea who like any of the people here are (but I have a feeling I would know if I watched Torchwood)....10:52
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aquatixrm_you: shush, i still have to start with season 3 ;)10:54
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rm_youoh wait, bah i think Sarah Jane was from the OLD series10:56
rm_youwhich i never really watched :/10:56
* timeless ponder10:56
rm_youaquatix: sorry O_o10:56
timelesswhat does 'previous' mean in a time based planet?10:56
timeless'older' or 'newer'?10:56
aquatixrm_you: :)10:56
aquatixtimeless: i think older10:57
JaffaMorning, all10:57
timelessaquatix: if you're wrong, do i file a bug? :)10:57
rm_youand technically, on a time-based planet, wouldn't things that were "previous" also be "behind"? :P10:57
Jaffarm_you: Sarah Jane was one of Tom Baker's companions. She met the Doctor and Rose in the second series episode, "School Reunion"10:57
GeneralAntillesOlder is "next" on maemo planet.10:57
GeneralAntillesHey, Jaffa.10:57
* timeless goes to file a bug10:57
aquatixJaffa: oh that Sarah Jane10:57
* aquatix knows her10:57
rm_youJaffa: ah yeah i remember that10:57
aquatixwith that dog10:58
Jaffarm_you: After that, she got her own spin-off show on CBBC called "The Sarah Jane Adventures"10:58
aquatixcool that she comes back10:58
rm_youyeah i saw like two episodes of the tom baker series :/10:58
hrw|goneB/nick hrw10:58
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rm_youi want to go back and watch it all, IMO10:58
* aquatix has a torrent with all the old ones10:58
rm_youjust so many epps >_>10:58
aquatixdidn't download them all yet thuogh10:58
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rm_youyeah i had it too, just no space :P10:58
rm_youand SOOOO MANY EPISODES10:58
aquatixheheh, me neither10:58
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rm_youack gotta go finish this ep10:59
rm_youis ep 12 the finale? or are there a couple more?10:59
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lardmankulve: ping11:22
lardmanbmidgley: ping11:28
kulvelardman: ping11:36
kulvesorry, pong11:36
lardmankulve: nice to see they listen hey?11:37
lardmanor they are listening11:37
lcuklardman :)11:38
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lcuk_worklardman, your timer dilemma have you solved it?11:40
lardmanlcuk_work: no, still a bit lost on that one11:41
lardmanlcuk_work: I wonder if I need to link some extra module in, which should have been in the kernel already11:41
lcuk_workwhen i saw your post last night (amongst other things) i went looking and found a high resolution timer thing, lemme see if its in history - what i wasnt confident though was if it was the right one11:41
lardmanlcuk_work: There are timers, but I thought they were like alarms11:42
lbtlcuk_work: does git work?11:43
kulvelardman: yes, it is.11:43
rm_youjust finished episode 12 <_< $%@11:43
lcuk_worklardman look at this, my googling i notices something called "dsp/bios STS"
lcuk_worklbt, i ran out of time last night but its on machine and ill be reading this weekend.  thank you very much indeed though i will confirm asap11:45
lardmanlcuk_work: won't work as it needs the Ti DSP bridge, and we use DSP Gateway11:45
lcuk_workdo lbt/lardman wish to have a peek under the covers before garage gets it..11:45
lardmanlcuk_work: yes, could be cool :)11:45
lcuk_worklardman, ok - hence me not knowing enough about the dsp11:46
lardmanlcuk_work: Thanks for taking the time to look though :)11:46
* lcuk_work just has to post the garage description11:46
* lcuk_work loves his creative keyword placement11:46
lardmanbuzzword bingo? ;)11:47
lcuk_worktechnology demo featuring finger friendly menus, variable resolution kinetic scrolling fullscreen document viewer, pressure sensitivity sketching with a graffiti wall showing all drawings, cpu throttling adjustments and a fullscreen starfield screensaver.11:47
lcuk_workabsolutely :D11:47
lardmantry saying that in one breath!11:47
lcuk_workwell i tried saying it a bit longer at first and they moaned that it was over 255chars :P11:48
* lcuk_work counted the letters :S11:48
lardmanIt's a good old-school Shakespearean sentence, lots of commas only one full stop :)11:48
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lcuk_worki want to be proud of my nokia11:48
lardmanWhere might I find a Nokian who could tell me if the RTC module was compiled into the DSP kernel...?11:49
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RST38hJuly 4th spam has started11:50
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lardmanIs that because Tom Cruise was born today?11:50
* GeneralAntilles spams bottlerockets at RST38h.11:51
* lardman laughs at prodigous usage of noun "bastards" in liqbase :)11:52
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drakois there a version o maemo for xscale pdas?11:53
GeneralAntillesRun Debian?11:54
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GeneralAntillesMost of the important parts of Maemo have been packaged for Debian.11:54
lcuk_workgotta vanish, back later, lardman/lbt :'( dont be too harsh on my coding style11:54
drakowith the hilton wm?11:54
lbtI'm busy today but will look if I get the chance...  l8r lcuk_work11:55
GeneralAntillesWith matchbox and Hildon desktop.11:55
drakoanyone have tried that ?11:56
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drakothank you X-Fade :-)12:00
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drakocool E have a tablet pc to try that12:02
rm_youlcuk_work: lol cool you define your own absolute value function using a ternary? :P that's sweet12:03
rm_youi'm already learning neat things and i'm only on the defines :P12:03
drakonever the less i need to prepare a prototype for a linux terminal in pdas using xscale processors like those of hp and it would be a killer if its possible to use maemo like system12:03
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atulI got this Error message when try to run Xephyer "/usr/bin/ line 1: export: `92:': not a valid identifier"12:12
atulHow to resolve it ?12:12
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rm_youbbl, gotta reboot into windoze for work :/ ugh.12:24
rm_youaww, my uptime :(12:28
aquatixrm_you: btw, is your awesome_app(tm) already in extras?12:28
rm_youit should be in diablo extras now12:29
rm_youi guess it's technically "advanced-backlight"12:29
aquatixmixing up people12:29
rm_youanyways, bye bye 16 days of uptime (since i installed this OS)12:29
rm_youah yeah12:30
rm_youlcuk's thing?12:30
aquatixi love adv-backlight too though ;)12:30
aquatixyeah :)12:30
rm_youi was just looking at the code for it :P12:30
rm_youit is really neat12:30
* aquatix wants12:30
rm_youglad he decided to release it12:30
rm_youit may be on garage?12:30
rm_youor maybe he was going to do that later12:30
rm_youanyways, gotta reboot12:30
aquatixpft, 16 days...12:30
aquatix11:30:49 mbscholt@luna:~/projects/masterthesis/thesis$ uptime 11:30:50 up 141 days, 18:08,  4 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.0012:30
rm_youlol, i JUST installed debian on this machine 16 days ago :P12:31
aquatixheh, cya12:31
rm_younew OS == give me a break :P12:31
rm_yousad, it didn't even get to a month <_<12:31
rm_youooh, i also have a new kernel <_<12:32
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herwoodis there any dbus-guru here?12:58
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andre___timelyx, pong13:08
robtaylorherwood: hmm, i might count =)13:09
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drakoanyone tried to update to a new kernell version?13:13
GeneralAntillesThat's a question for AStorm13:13
drakoi c13:14
hrwdrako: 2.6.26-rc should works13:14
hrwdrako: of course forget about wifi13:14
drakowhat about 2.6.2413:14
herwoodrobtaylor: I'm trying to create my own dbus service to system dbus. Do I need to do some extra job to get it work?13:15
hrwdrako: forget about wifi on >2.6.21-nokia basically13:16
drakoso to try another kernell can i use the nokia_2420_defconfig to configure the new kernel13:17
drakoso the wifi driver is a nokia hack13:17
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jottdrako: not particular a nokia hack but it is closed source13:18
robtaylorherwood: you need to add a policy in /etc/dbus-1/system.d13:19
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drakosee it13:20
drakoneed the firmware to compile13:20
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herwoodrobtaylor: thanks, does it require anything else?13:20
robtaylorherwood: i have no idea how much you've done already13:21
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herwoodrobtaylor: Currently I can register my service to session dbus. I've used glib-bindings to do that13:22
drakowhat about patching the 2.6.21-nokia?13:22
jottdrako: you can do that...13:23
drakook i'll start testing with that then :)13:23
robtaylorherwood: ok, then yea, all you need it to st up teh allows so your service can expose itself on the system bus13:23
drakothank you jott and hrw13:23
herwoodrobtaylor: yeah, I'll try that. thanks!13:27
robtaylorherwood: np :)13:27
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drakoanother question. the filemanager can access samba shares but not those with user authentication is that some configuration i'm missing or is a lack of functionality13:30
jottdrako: it's a lack of functionality....13:30
drakofrom the filemanager program or the samba support13:31
drakouups wrong window ;)13:32
jottdrako: i bet it's some stuff missing in libhildonfm but thats just a blind guess...13:34
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hrwgnome-vfs integration is simple in maemo13:36
eichiwhat about maemo-mapper for diablo?13:40
GeneralAntillesJust grab it from the Chinook repo13:40
GeneralAntillesgnuite hasn't done anything to get it through autobuilder so far as I can tell.13:41
hrwbuilding of maemo-mapper outside of scratchbox will result in hard breaking13:41
eichihrw, means?13:42
hrweichi: #include "/usr/include/gpsbt.h"13:43
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hrwsome time will pass until it will evolve from 'I just split onebigfile.c into parts'13:43
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eichiand what about pidgin for diablo?13:49
eichithese 2 apps are one of the common used13:49
GeneralAntillesJust pull anything you're missing from Chinook Extras.13:51
drakochinook pidgin is working fine to me13:51
drakoand i have upgraded to diablo already13:52
* aquatix is happy with telepathy13:52
aquatixworks fine for me13:52
aquatixwith those collabora packages for other IM networks13:52
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: If someone would really care about having pidgin working, that can be done pretty easily. ;)13:52
GeneralAntillesWho is the maintainer?13:53
drakoactually i just would like to have the encrypt pidgin plugin13:53
aquatixdrako: otr?13:53
aquatixthat one would be nice indeed13:53
drakoyes i know aquatix13:53
drakootr is already available13:54
aquatixwhich one do you mean then?13:54
* hrw is also happy with telepathy stuff13:54
drakopidgin encrypt13:54
hrwnow I want some good note taking app for diablo13:54
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Maintainer is Gabriel Schulhof or nix.13:54
hrwas when I look into chinook extras I feel nightmares comming13:55
drakoneed to try the openoffice :-D13:55
hrwxournal depends on libgnomecanvas... maemopadplus with hand written deps...13:55
drakoI need a spreadsheet13:55
hrwdrako: gnumeric is in diablo extras13:55
hrwI need *working* PIM - calendar/contacts/tasks13:55
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Hmm he seems to be working for Nokia ;)13:56
drakohaven't used gnumeric for ages13:56
GeneralAntillesHa, so how is he not with the picture? :D13:56
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: So probably gone for the holidays. Finland is closed for summer break ;)13:56
drakohrw you have gpe pim stuff13:56
GeneralAntillesScrewy Europeans.13:56
hrwdrako: please...13:56
hrwdrako: I loaded guadec ical into it and notice that switching views make it stick to agenda view13:57
drakowell until better comes around13:57
hrwdrako: not to mention that I had to hand edit ical to get it imported13:57
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drakowell maybe someone can get sunbird working13:59
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rm_youhrw: tried liqbase for notetaking? :P14:05
* aquatix wants14:05
* aquatix is going to write an irssi script that echo's /me wants every time liqbase is mentioned ;)14:05
aquatixdid lcuk upload it to extras?14:05
rm_youaquatix: then download it? :P14:05
rm_youaquatix: doubt it, but you can just get it from his googlecode site14:06
aquatixbtw, there is a maemo notes app i thought?14:06
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crashanddieWell hello there Maemo !14:08
hellwolfmight be absent14:09
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|tbb|hi all,14:19
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lardmanThoughts on fn call overhead in C14:21
lardmanWhere would one look to get figures/comparisons?14:21
inz*mumble* damn white-on-black websites, they aren't really readable in sunlight14:22
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|tbb|for what is android good for when running on n81014:22
RST38hladman: what exactly do you want to know?14:22
aquatix|tbb|: mostly fun14:23
lardmandneary made me think that perhaps some of the awful sbc performance is down to fn call overhead14:23
aquatixfrom what i've heard, it's not very useful14:23
lardmanawful performance on the dsp that is14:23
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* rm_you is still looking forward to SBC-DSP :P14:23
RST38hlardman: ARMEL abi calls functions as follows:14:23
hrwrm_you: will try it when it will appear in repo14:23
hrwrm_you: or when will have sbox working which rather do not happen soon14:24
|tbb|i thought it could use the opengl power of the n810 chip ;(14:24
rm_youhrw: he released the binaries14:24
RST38hlardman: 1. Return address goes to R14. 2. Stack pointer is in R13. 3. If your function uses any local variables, R12 will point to the call frame with these variables on stack14:24
RST38hlardman: Registers R0..R3 are considered scratch registers and never saved. When you call a function, first 4 arguments are passed via these registers14:25
RST38hlardman: So, when you enter a function, the first thing it will do is save all modified registers starting with R4 on stack using stmdb14:26
RST38hlardman: *If* you are using local vars, R12 will be saved. *If* you are calling other functions, R14 will be saved.14:26
lardmanRST38h: the fn in question has two pointer arguments and two local arrays14:26
RST38hlardman: At exit, it will execute ldmia to restore registers. That is all.14:27
lardmanno other calls from this fn14:27
RST38hlocal arrays? how big?14:27
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RST38hCan I have the function source code to look at?14:27
lardmanint array1[8], array2[5]14:27
lardmanof course, let me find an url for it14:27
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lardmanRST38h: that's the ARM code anyway14:29
lardmanRST38h: here's the number of calls:
lardmanRST38h: the dsp code is some 7x slower than the ARM code; I'm now wondering if that's down to an expensive fn call14:30
lardmanor rather 160672 x2 expensive fn calls14:31
RST38hIs your C code in ARM or DSP?14:31
lardmanmy C code runs on the DSP, I'd like to compare the overhead vs ARM14:32
lardman is the same code as runs on ARM (with 16bit byte changes)14:32
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lardman is code which tries to use DSP intrinisics and dual MACs14:32
lardmanthe fn args are the same, just the internals of the _sbc_analyze_eight() fn14:33
hrwrm_you: installed14:33
RST38hlardman: So you want to know what DSP calling convention is?14:34
lardmanRST38h: I think I've seen that somewhere in the DSP docs, I'll try to dig it out later on14:34
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RST38hIs sbc.c compiled on ARM or on DSP?14:35
jotthm does the dsp c compiler support inline?14:36
lardmannot sure of the syntax though off the top of my head14:36
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herwoodrobtaylor: are you still around?14:37
lardmanI guess inlining both the  sbc_analyze_eight() and _sbc_analyze_eight() fns would rule out the fn calling overhead theory14:37
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robtaylorherwood: yep14:44
lardmanlunchtime, I'll see whether inlining those two makes any difference14:45
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RST38hlardman: Ok. Here is the deal14:46
RST38hlardman: DSP is completely different from ARM. They have different instruction sets, different ABI, different memory access speeds, etc.14:47
RST38hlardman: So comparing calling overhead between these two makes no sense.14:47
herwoodrobtaylor: I got my service to run in the system dbus but I still have a problem14:48
RST38hlardman: BUT! If you show final DSP assembly code, as generated by compiler, there may be a way to optimize it14:48
jottyay! hand-optimizing rules! ;)14:48
herwoodrobtaylor: I have to implement another service's method (from another interface). Do you know that how should I configure the conf-file?14:49
robtaylorherwood: umm, what?!14:49
jottbut thats true, sometimes it's enough to see what the compiler actually generated to rething some code pathes..14:49
herwoodI try to be more specific14:49
crashanddieRST38h, does the dsp have DMA to the RAM ?14:50
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herwoodrobtaylor: I'm trying to implement the handler-interface and register my own handler14:56
jotthm is garage down?14:57
|tbb|is it possible to use the agps feature without open the apgs-ui (gui) tool14:57
herwoodbut it just won't work :P14:57
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jott|tbb|: afaiu the agps-ui thingy just sets some gconf settings14:58
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|tbb|oh good to know, perhaps only the lat lan14:59
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|tbb|i could do this my myself then ;)14:59
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jott|tbb|: gconftool-2 -R /system/osso/supl14:59
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lcuk_mobi wonder how long i manage to stay before customers return15:00
crashanddiewhat is agps all about ?15:00
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jottcrashanddie: assisted gps, getting faster gps fixes by using additional data15:00
lcuk_mobcrashanddie: its a way of pre-initializing the gps based upon knowledge around you now (ie phone networks/wifi stuff/silly 50mile map)15:00
herwoodrobtaylor: I think that all my problems are related to xml-file (I use it to generate glib-bindings) or to the conf-file15:01
crashanddieso basically, I click on the place I'm at, then launch map, and it'll get a fix faster ?15:01
lcuk_mobthats the idea15:01
lcuk_mobas long as you are on earth anyway15:02
lcuk_mobmornin btw15:02
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crashanddiedon't plan on any other planet before the next release15:02
jottcrashanddie: it will send your proposed location to the server15:02
lcuk_mobjott - it uploads your location?15:02
jottand the server will tell you the satellite positions..15:03
jottlcuk_mob: that's how i understand it..15:03
lcuk_mobwhat happens with  no wifi enabled (in the car)15:03
RST38hcrash: I do not know15:03
* lcuk_mob mumbles something about it caching the empharis (sp?) data15:03
jottlcuk_mob: connect with a phone :P15:03
RST38h+ almanac15:04
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lcuk_mobta rst :)15:04
RST38halmanac tells you the satellite status while ephemeris tell you satellite locations15:04
lcuk_mobjott, phone is never tethered15:04
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jottnot sure if the position alone will help with the current agps..15:04
lcuk_mobonce you have the ephemeris  data though i thought that was meant to be valid for months15:05
crashanddieit works15:05
GeneralAntillesIt works offline, too.15:05
RST38hGA: Actually, it does not for me, for some reaosn15:05
andre___oh, classification? cool15:05
crashanddiegot a fix in about 3 minutes in the house :)15:05
lcuk_mobi can occasionally get a rapid fix without even having diablo, but thats so rare15:05
RST38hThere is a simple experiment you can do15:06
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RST38hStart up Maemo mapper and look at satellite status15:06
RST38h(RoadMap has an even nicer utility for that)15:06
GeneralAntillesandre___, timeless was poking at it yesterday.15:06
lardmanhmm, they are already inline15:06
RST38hIf you see satellite numbers at the bottom - it means that you have got a valid almanac15:06
lcuk_moblardman, are you still concerned about timing without having a hiresolution timer?15:06
RST38hIf you see satellite dots on the "sky" - it means you have got valid ephemeris15:07
RST38hlardman: it is not calling overhead15:07
jottlardman: is there an objdump or some other simple disassembler to check what the compiler generated?15:07
RST38hwanna try something?15:07
lardmanlcuk_mob: without any timer at all, yes15:07
andre___GeneralAntilles, yeah, and I had to go and after that my battery went out of power, so i couldn't see the backlog. cool15:07
lardmanRST38h: no15:07
lardmanjott: yes15:07
RST38hdon't wanna try something? ;)15:07
lardmanRST38h: no to whether it was calling overhead15:07
RST38hlardman: ok, next guess then:15:08
RST38hlardman: could you get rid of your two temporary arrays and replace them with a few temp variables?15:08
RST38hlardman: also, make it as few variables as possible, reuse variables if you can15:08
jotti.e. are you sure the functions are really inlined?15:08
lcuk_mobhmmmm, thats not a good thing.  its like chicken and egg.    you said the time() function was returning a strange variable repeated over the lo/hi shorts of a 32bit.  wild guess, its not the address of the timing data is it (and static cos thats where you grab it from after the function updates... ?15:08
lardmanjott: I'll check15:09
lardmanRST38h: to do what?15:09
RST38hlardman: to reduce the number of times it has to go into memory15:09
RST38hmemory accesses can absolutely kill you15:09
lardmanRST38h: if the fns are inlined, then that shouldn't make much difference15:09
lcuk_mobor relatively kill you15:09
RST38hlardman: wrong15:09
lardmanRST38h: oh I see15:09
RST38hlardman: it is NOT call overhead, it is memory access overhead15:10
lardmanRST38h: yes, I see what you mean15:10
RST38hAs long as you use a few vars, compiler will try placing them into registers15:10
RST38hBut arrays will not be registerized in most cases15:10
lardmanRST38h: depends how many registers I have then, I need 16 32bit variables15:10
crashanddiereboot in SSH actually works15:10
lcuk_mobreboot doesnt reboot15:11
RST38hlardman: you may need fewer - check carefully15:11
lcuk_mobits annoyed me from day115:11
RST38hreodrder computations if you have to15:11
crashanddielcuk_mob, well... I do have the feeling it just did15:11
lcuk_mobahhh, you mean using the reboot command from ssh15:11
lcuk_mobi thought your ssh session lasted over a reboot15:11
lardmanRST38h: look at the tail end of _sbc_analyze_eight()15:11
lardmanRST38h: certainly the t[8] variables could be replaced with registers, but then they probably are15:12
robtaylorherwood: just do an allow_sendinterface15:12
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lardmanRST38h: the whole fn is about memory accesses15:12
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jottlardman: do you compile with "-x2  Enable inlining of inline functions" ?15:17
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lardmanjott: -o315:18
lardmanjott: where did you find that flag?15:18
jottin the "c55x dsp programmer's guide"15:19
lardmanjott: which page?15:20
* Jaffa relaxes over an Eat "big bold" soup whilst having a brief breather at a nightmare of a day.15:20
JaffaBTW, anyone trained coLinux or andLinux with Scratchbox?15:20
lardmanjott: is that 2-18?15:20
lcuk_moblardman, read the opening para of this
GeneralAntillesJaffa, qwerty12 is using andLinux, I think.15:21
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jott3-2 here...hmm oh that's not from the page.. maybe it's an older version?!15:21
lardmanOptimizing C55x Assembly Code Using the Pipeline Stall Analyzer Tool15:22
jottlardman: seems to be an older revision :/15:22
lardmanSPRU376A, ch3.2.315:23
JaffaGeneralAntilles; cool, it doesn't look too bloated. VMware's a bit too slow on my work laptop to do bits of Maemo stuff whilst at work15:23
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ShadowJKcould GPS be made faster, theoretically, if one downloade ephemeris from some place that has the ephemeris for all satellites?15:23
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ShadowJKDoes the A-GPS tool in diablo already do this?15:23
JaffaShadowJK: That's exactly what it does.15:24
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ShadowJKI had the N810 in the pocket yesterday when I went shopping, then when I came home I discovered maemo mapper had managed to track some of my movements inside the mall.. I was impressed15:24
ShadowJKnot diablo15:25
crashanddieShadowJK, yeah, it's kinda awesome in that way, I have to admit15:25
lcuk_mobwhen we were walking along at linuxtag i discoverde if you swing your 810 round your head gps thinks you are travelling at 40mph :D15:26
lcuk_mobanyway, must dash15:26
lcuk_mobback later15:26
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lardmanjott: to answer the question about whether it has been inlined, I think so is the answer15:29
jottlardman: hm so other places have to be optimized :(15:29
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lardmansbc_analyze_audio() is the fn which loops and calls those two *eight/four() fn repeatedly15:31
darkblue_bdoes anyone know how to control the MediaPlayer's volume from the shell?15:31
jottmh the "CALL #I$$LMPY" looks suspicious15:31
inzdark, you might be able to do it with dbus-send — you could try to use dbus-monitor to find out the details15:32
darkblue_bdbus-monitor ?15:33
|tbb|have i understand it right, if i open agps-ui it asks where the sattelites are. from my last lat lon information which are stored in gconf15:33
inzdark, dbus-monitor is a tool with which you can monitor dbus-messages flying in the bus15:34
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lardman|tbb|: something like that, but it probably just directly uses the lat long from the map15:35
darkblue_binz: sounds tricky15:35
lardmanjott: yes15:36
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inheritedhey. is there an application or way to play .flv-files on my n810?15:36
lardmanjott: right at the end, it's an undefined external ref15:37
atulHow to uninstall scratchbox ?15:37
jottlardman: do you have access to via your university?15:37
lardmannot sure, am at home atm15:38
lardmanbut will have a look when I head back in15:38
herwoodrobtaylor: yeah, thanks again :)15:38
darkblue_bI see some refs to agps.. I have been interested in something really simple. telling the unit where you are aproximately, without the GPS mechanism15:38
darkblue_bI have an N80015:39
lardmandarkblue_b: yes, we'd like an api to talk to supld15:39
jottlardman: ah you have to do some wild short/long casting15:39
|tbb|so i can store my lat lan position bymyself into gconf, but from what the map application will know where the sattelites are, will they always take the same tour so you know by anytime where the sattelites must stay15:39
ShadowJKAnyone else find the N810 headphone output noisy? :P15:40
lardmanjott: I'm not quite sure where all those casts are coming from15:42
jottlardman: query .. :)15:44
lardmanI$$LMPY is presumably a long multiply, though why it's a fn call I don't know, unless it will be expanded later on15:44
ShadowJKHow does the volume work in N810 anyway, is it just making the DSP or something scale down the samples?15:45
ShadowJKWondering if I'd get less noise if I set volume to max and added an analogue volume control15:45
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ShadowJKoh yeah, that did improve it somewhat15:48
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ShadowJKIf I press stop in media player, the noise goes away too, then the touchscreen sounds also activate the noise, which stays there a second or so after the sound has been played15:49
ShadowJKor rather 3 seconds15:50
ShadowJKI guess the sound hardware is powered down when not in use15:50
eichimy rss feed reader doesnt take new feeds15:52
ShadowJKI've seen other people complain about low volume, but I have to set it to about 10% to not blow out eardrums with headphones15:52
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robtaylorherwood: did thatt work?15:58
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pupnikgenerally you do best playing high volume in software then reducing the volume at the last step in the chain (analog op-amp probably)15:59
lardmanhmm, I've spotted something far more insidious, I've set the code to loop through 5000 times (when processing properly it does 5032 iirc) but not do any calcs15:59
herwoodrobtaylor: there is still something wrong15:59
lardmanand it takes ~18s, vs ~20s with processing15:59
derfpupnik: Unless you start clipping, of course.15:59
lardmandamn, my first testing was wrong, looks like the hold up may well be in the data transfer15:59
herwoodrobtaylor: in the glib-bind file, should there be this: <interface name="">15:59
lardman~lart lardman for not double checking16:00
* infobot lowers lardman's priority for not double checking16:00
herwoodrobtaylor: or should the interface name be my own eg.
jotthaha @infobot ;)16:00
RST38hlardman: have you got disassembly somewhere?16:02
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robtaylorherwood: the former, you're implemebting an interface16:03
robtaylorherwood: sounds like you have a confusion between bus names an interface names16:03
robtaylorherwood: have a slow read of the dbus spec ;)16:03
herwoodrobtaylor: yeah, I've read it a couple of times but there are still stuff that I just don't get.. :P16:06
RST38hCodel ooksok although I do not quite understand how memory locations are defined16:06
robtaylorherwood: heh16:06
robtaylorherwood: think of well known bus names like dns, uniqe bus names (":1.0") like ips16:07
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robtaylorherwood: interfaces are scoping  namespaces16:07
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lardmanRST38h: I think this may be an ARM->DSP->ARM transfer bottleneck16:07
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herwoodrobtaylor: ok, but how can I tell that I'm implementing the -interface?16:08
jottlardman: can you measure arm->dsp and dsp->arm separately?16:09
herwooddamn, my brains are freezed.. :S16:09
lardmanjott: I'll have to write some code and then test from the ARM side with "time"16:09
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lardmanhold fire on that, looking at the asm, the encode fn was still called16:12
lardman~lart having too many windows open16:12
* infobot runs at having too many windows open with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut16:12
herwoodrobtaylor: hmm, I think the xml-file is now working16:12
RST38hlardman: quite possible16:13
RST38hlardman: is there a reasonably reliable version that I can test with BT headphones though?16:13
herwoodrobtaylor: but should the conf-file include this line: <allow send_interface=""/>16:14
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herwoodrobtaylor: or my own interface in the send_interface..?16:15
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lardmanRight, some confirmed figures now; 5022 data passes (512 8bit bytes from ARM->DSP and 76 8bit bytes (iirc) DSP->ARM) with no encoding, takes 9.21+0.94+2.92s16:17
lardmanso about half the time is spend shifting data around (as the with encoding case was ~18s +..+..16:18
robtaylorherwood: both16:18
X-Fadelardman: Doesn't that seem like a really low data rate?16:18
jottlardman: yieks is this supposed to be that slow?16:18
robtaylorherwood: i presume your implement a) a serveice that has an interface and a well known bus name16:18
lardmanYes, very slow16:19
robtaylorherwood: and b) its also implement a handler inetrface so it can be called by the obex stuff16:19
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X-Fadelardman: Can't you pass larger batches of bytes instead of only 512?16:19
RST38hlardman: something is majorly wrong16:19
lardmanX-Fade: That's what the bluez code gives me; I could do, but it would produce latency16:19
herwoodrobtaylor: yeah16:19
robtaylorherwood: also note that those interfaces are probably on different objects16:20
X-Fadelardman: Can't you just double the amount to see if it takes the same time?16:20
lardmanThe DSP encode still takes far too long, the ARM code was closer to 3s for the whole lot16:20
robtaylorherwood: so two seperate lots of introspextion xml16:20
lardmanX-Fade: not with this code, I'm tricking sbcenc into thinking I'm encoding data; I will write a test task to see how long it takes16:21
herwoodrobtaylor: these things are pretty complicated.. :D16:21
lardmanX-Fade: There are other options for passing the data, atm I use bulk transfers, but shared memory may be a better bet16:22
RST38hlardman: if there is a shared memory option, use it by all means16:22
RST38hlardman: 'cause this is what you are supposed to use =)16:22
X-Fadelardman: A 2400 BAUD modem transfers data faster, something must be wrong ;)16:23
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lardmanRST38h: yes, I'll work out how to do the synchronisation with that; I used bulk as it's simple and I thought it was fast enough16:23
herwoodrobtaylor: do you know any good tutorial or document where there things are described?16:23
lardmanX-Fade: you'll probably find that the amount of data is immaterial, there is simply lots of overhead16:23
RST38hlardman: use a memory location at the end of the buffer - set it to 1 on ARM side, then set it to 0 on DSP side when it is done16:24
X-Fadelardman: yeah, that is why you should try to transfer larger blocks or shared mem indeed.16:24
herwoodrobtaylor: I've only found the DBus tutorial, but it doesn't decribe all of these things16:24
lardmanRST38h: and poll on the dsp/arm side while waiting?16:24
lardmanRST38h: or rather a tight loop looking at that location?16:25
RST38hlardman: I would say, while(location) usleep(100000);16:26
RST38h100ms latency - should not be a problem for audio playback16:26
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robtaylorherwood: yeah, its not great. I usually recommend looking at the examples in the source tree, or looking at other users of dbus-glib16:27
lardmanWill need to shift the sbc code out of the task and into a thread to avoid poll errors16:27
lardmanshould be a quick job though16:27
lardman(fingers crossed :)16:27
herwoodrobtaylor: yeah, I'll take a look at it16:28
AStormdrako: well, I'm yet to try to run wifi on something newer16:33
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AStormI can build it for all kernels, but I think there was some kobject change which breaks umac.o nicely16:34
AStormmaking it dereference NULL - a blasphemy ;P16:34
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AStormI suspect it might even work up to and including 2.6.2316:35
AStormofc to build wifi for newer kernel, you have to hack the build system etc.16:35
AStormand strip most symbols from {umac,mtum}.ko, readd them with a hack ;P16:36
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hrw~curse maemopadplus autors16:50
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, maemopadplus autors !16:50
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drakosorry AStorm I was away16:55
hrwwhere I can find libgps{bt,mgr)-dev?16:56
drakoAStorm i'm doing my first kernel compilation for the n810 going to flash it now16:57
wndhrw, I think they're part of maemo sdk, and optionally installed to $HOME/maemo-sdk-nokia-binaries_$VERSION/. apt-repository entry is added to sources.list if you let the installer to do so.16:58
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GeneralAntilleslol, the quote on the bottom of the page here seems to be almost entirely lifted from wikipedia:;jsessionid=GZLX3TP3Z1XI0QSNDLPSKHSCJUNN2JVN?pgno=317:05
wndI think it's rather rule than exception to quote wikipedia without quotes or references to it17:08
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GeneralAntillesDoesn't make it right. ;)17:09
GeneralAntillesI like how he completely misinterpreted the stuff he actually seems to have written himself, though.17:09
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jottGeneralAntilles: "Java and the Nokia N10 Internet Tablet" haha also a nice typo in headline ;)17:10
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sp3000meh, just another off-by-eight-hundred error17:12
RST38hGA: DrDobbs hacks also plagiarize Wiki now?17:12
RST38h[Where is this world going?]17:13
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Hell17:16
GeneralAntillesI blame Nokia.17:16
derfGeneralAntilles: In a Handbasket.17:17
RST38hWhy not Microsoft though?17:17
RST38hOr Google.17:17
GeneralAntillesBecause Microsoft hasn't released any products codenamed "Diablo". :P17:17
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crashanddiehaving fun ?17:20
GeneralAntillesStupid focus bugs are stupid.17:20
crashanddiehence the name17:21
GeneralAntillesThat's the one thing that really pisses me off about modern operating systems.17:22
GeneralAntillesThey like to decide where the focus should be, and it's frequently not actually where I want it to be.17:22
derfIt's not just operating systems.17:23
derfI've yet to see a Mozilla-based browser with a sane focus policy.17:23
GeneralAntillesMicroB's "pay attention to me" bug is fun.17:23
derfIt's almost as if the people developing it don't _have_ keyboards, or don't know how to use them.17:23
GeneralAntilles"Look! I'm doing things!"17:24
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deebushas anyone experienced any problems with modest mail using gmail?17:25
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deebuswnd: is a problem connecting to
deebusno matter what settings I try, it can't connect to send mail17:27
deebuspop works fine, but smtp doesn't connect17:27
wndwell, the last I checked I didn't have any real blocker problems. I just didn't like the way how modest always downloaded all mail headers instead the latest 50 I had configured it to do get.17:28
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deebuswnd: what are your smtp settings?  maybe I have something set up incorrectly17:28
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wndlet me check if I still have the settings in place17:28
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luognideebus: i started having problems with gmail/smtp yesterday!17:28
luognideebus: it seems that sometime mails are sent but modest reports a problem17:29
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deebusI can't even connect to
wndseems that I don't have any email settings defined for modest right now17:29
luognideebus: i had no problem for example 3 or 4 days ago.. always using modest and diablo17:29
luognideebus: on ho i can connect fine17:29
luognideebus: port 465 iirc17:29
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deebusis it set to ssl or tls?17:30
luognilogin authentication17:30
deebusyeah, that's what I have.  seems it can't connect to the box17:31
deebusis there a way to get more detailed information about why it errors out like that?'17:31
deebuslike dumping std. err to std. out, or something like that?17:31
luognideebus: don't kwno.. but tell me if you find something :)17:31
X-Fadedeebus: It works for me.17:31
luogninow it works for me too17:32
luognibut yesterday wasn't working.. maybe a gmail problem17:32
luognii didn't test with another client..17:33
deebusI must have been tired when I set that up last night...17:34 !=
deebusI am an retarded17:34
qwerty12*a retard :P17:35
deebusright.  I was laying it on thick...17:35
qwerty12I'm only joking :)17:35
deebuswell I'm glad we were able to figure out my boner17:36
deebus...I'm in a strange mood this morning17:36
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deebusthanks folks17:41
deebusI'm going to go pull another boner.  my own, of course17:41
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JamieBennettI'm trying to save a file with my app to /usr/share/applications/app_name. In scratchbox thats fine, on the tablet this dir is made root. Any idea's on how to install the app with this directory writeable?18:05
hrwJamieBennett: please learn how unix system works18:06
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hrw|gonesee you on guadec guys18:06
JamieBennettLOL I think I know how it works hrw18:07
JamieBennettI've used it for the last 13 years :)18:07
jotthrw|gone: have fun.18:07
hrw|goneJamieBennett: then why you think that user has write permissions in /usr/ dirs?18:07
hrw|goneuser should not touch outside of $HOME and /tmp/18:08
JamieBennettI'm trying to package an app up that stores a file it has downloaded. I was under the impression that the tablet apps had to store stuff under their app dir under /usr/share, that obviously isn't the case then. $HOME it is then18:08
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lardmanhmm, semaphores don't appear to ever time out on the DSP...18:13
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mrlanrat1Hey, My charger for my N810 just broke, it is covered by the warantee?18:30
GeneralAntillesHow'd it break?18:30
qwerty12mrlanrat1, is it a standard nokia charger?18:31
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nomismrlanrat1: it probably is covered by warranty, but I'd recommend to get a cheap substitute yourself.18:31
nomismrlanrat1: otherwise you'd probably have to send in the whole package including the N810.18:32
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qwerty12Dunno if it is covered by the warranty but it shouldn't be expensive to get a new one. My N800's charger works in N80 and my brothers N73.18:32
mrlanrat1Im not too sure, But this morning when  I unpluged it from charging it had a lot of difficulty coming out, when I got it out the plug is bent.18:32
nomismrlanrat1: uh. Is the pin inside the N810 still in the center of the hole?18:32
mrlanrat1Id need to send my N810 in just to get a new charger???18:33
mrlanrat1no, the plug on the charger18:33
mrlanrat1the pin is fine18:33
nomisah ok.18:33
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nomismrlanrat1: well, chat with your dealer, but I had a similiar problem with my N800 some time ago, the german nokia shop was unwilling.18:34
mrlanrat1I bought mine off the official nokia store18:34
GeneralAntillesAmazon usually stocks the Nokia chargers for about $2.50 a piece18:34
* nomis too18:34
GeneralAntillesshipping is a little heavy, though.18:34
GeneralAntillesGet 3 or 4 of them and spread 'em around the house. ;)18:34
nomisyeah, getting a cheap 3rd party charger is probably way easier than trying to figure out how the warranty is supposed to work.18:35
mrlanrat1yha, but I dont want to buy a new one, I just want to get mine replaced, and it should be free, I dont feel I should need to send my N810 in also.18:35
nomismrlanrat1: well, the only way then is to ask them.18:35
qwerty12That's not a bad price.18:36
* qwerty12 goes
mrlanrat1ok (looks for N810 box for warantee card)18:36
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qwerty12I think infobot charges more :P18:37
GeneralAntillesProbably cost you more to ship the charger back to Nokia.18:37
mrlanrat1they dont give you free shipping?18:38
drakoto flash a new kernel do i need to restart n810 like when i upgraded to diablo?18:38
qwerty12drako, you restart after flashing kernel18:38
qwerty12(depends on which tool you use to flash)18:38
GeneralAntillesThey'll ship it to you for free18:38
GeneralAntillesbut you still have to ship it to them.18:38
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drakono i mean i need to turn it on so that he gets the new kernel?18:38
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drakothe flasher tool18:39
nomisAC4E: 4 EUR at german amazon...  :)18:39
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mrlanrat1Nokia should change that, with most companys (like HP with my laptop) they pay for you to ship it to them and for them to ship it back18:39
jottdrako: yes, you need to reboot and use the flasher tool18:40
GeneralAntilles"most companies"18:40
GeneralAntillesWhere are you getting your statistics?18:40
jottdrako: you can also just boot the kernel without flashing18:40
mrlanrat1sorry, good point...18:40
drakohow can i do that jott ?18:40
jottdrako: flasher --load --boot --kernel kernelImage18:40
mrlanrat1the warantee book does not have any information...18:40
GeneralAntillesCall them18:40
GeneralAntillesThey can tell you.18:40
jottand if all is fine flasher -f -k kernelImage to actually flash18:41
drakothank you :)18:41
mrlanrat1where can I find the number?18:41
GeneralAntillesProbably on their website. . . .18:41
mrlanrat1yha, already looking18:41
drakook i getting a stupid error Sending request 0x01 failed18:42
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mrlanrat1o, great.... They are closed today.. Ill need to wait till monday.18:43
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qwerty12Just a quick q, which is correct? -mcpu=arm1136j-sfp or -mcpu=arm1136j-s ?18:44
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drakocould someone help me with that?18:44
mrlanrat1GeneralAntilles, thanks for the link I will probably end up getting that.18:44
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drakocan't get flasher to work could someone help me?18:53
JaffaGeneralAntilles: I'm pitching a lightning session at the summit of using tablet-encode and its GUI18:53
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GeneralAntillesSounds cool18:54
drakook now how can i check i it started with the new kernel?18:57
qwerty12Try something like uname -a or cat /proc/version18:57
drako:-P me stupid!18:58
eocanhaSomeone could tell me what's different among the autobuilder environment and a normal Diablo scratchbox environment?18:58
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eocanhaThis way of autodetecting if I'm on Maemo doesn't work:18:58
eocanhaif $PKG_CONFIG --exists libosso && readlink /etc|grep -q ^/targets; then MAEMO......18:59
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inzeocanha, why do you need to detect if you're on maemo?19:02
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eocanhabecause my package can build on maemo and also on plain gnome19:02
eocanha(using Hildon libs or not depending on the build  environment)19:02
inzWhy don't you just use what's available?19:02
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eocanhaI need to detect what platform I'm in19:04
* qwerty12 shouldn't have used ke-recv-test y/day >.<19:05
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kulveeocanha: so, you don't want to know for what platform you are building for but you want to know if you are building for hildon or plain gtk?19:16
kulve(hildon does exist on other platforms than Nokia's tablets..)19:16
eocanhayes, I explained myself bad19:16
kulveso, check for hildon. If found, use it19:16
kulvemany libraries or applications use pkgconfig check in configure and makefiles to do that. I'm sure you'll find some good example19:17
Atariiso i want to compile some drivers for my nokia, what do i need to install to do it directly on the device?19:18
kulvetoo much19:18
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drakotime to go home19:19
drakothank you very much guys19:19
drakoenjoy and c u all tomorrow19:19
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sp3000what's an idiomatic way to check if there are any /im/in/ur/path/*.extension files around in shell?20:19
* sp3000 is only coming up with buckets of lame20:20
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lardmanif I do: sbc->output_flag = (short *)(buf+2); will the +2 be bytes or shorts?20:26
* sp3000 writes ls /im/in/ur/path/*.extension >/dev/null 2>&1 and looks a bit sad20:28
lardmansorry sp3000, I don't know20:28
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GeneralAntilleslol, dneary, having fun cleaning up that article all by your lonesome? :P20:43
dnearyDoing it right now :)20:43
dnearyAt least the "putting tablet into USB mode" bit20:43
dnearyBut I don't have all the info20:43
GeneralAntillesI'd help, but I don't use usbnet20:43
lardmanI can help from memory ~5 years ago on the Zaurus :)20:44
GeneralAntillesSeems like a lot of that stuff should really just be dumped20:44
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lardmanI should have some time tomorrow to look at stuff though20:47
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lardmanI will import the dspprogramming page, almost promise :)20:47
* GeneralAntilles shakes his head.20:48
GeneralAntillesitT is so not worth it anymore.20:48
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kulvelardman: won't that +2 be in the units of buf?20:48
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kulvelardman: i.e. the +2 is first, then the cast to short *20:49
dnearyI'm thinking of simply taking out the "configuring your host" sections20:50
dnearyThey definitely need to be shorter20:50
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GeneralAntillesThey're really overwhelming20:50
dnearyIt should be "insert kernel module X, ensure that there's an if script for usb0, plug in the tablet and cross your fingers" or whatever20:50
GeneralAntillesand there's way too much distro-specific nonsense20:50
dnearyI've stripped over half the page already in the first section, and a quick elimination of doubled-up information20:51
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Talus_n810a friend of mine asked me if existed a maemo version to install into ipaq pdas20:53
Talus_n810is there?20:53
kulveTalus_n810: nope (afaik)20:53
Talus_n810that would be awsome20:54
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lardmankulve: I hope so, just checking21:02
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lardmanTalus_n810: There used to be an OpenEmbedded Maemo target, but I think it's not maintained any more21:03
Talus_n810i c lardman21:04
Talus_n810is there documentation for that?21:04
lardmanTalus_n810: certainly not here, perhaps in the openembedded mailing list, but most likely you'd need to talk to koen21:05
Talus_n810i have some rookies here that i could ask to try that21:05
lardmanI think it's well out of date now though21:05
Talus_n810i mean get into it21:05
Talus_n810i'm not expert in embed stuff or OS21:06
lardmantry koen on #Angstrom or #OE and see what he has to say about it21:06
Talus_n810cool  !21:06
lardmanbut make sure you know what you want to ask, he gets impatient :)21:07
Talus_n810ok :)21:07
lardmancome back to me if you don't get any sense and I'll have a chat with him21:07
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* GeneralAntilles paints graffiti on n800n's garage door.21:14
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n800nas soon as i finish this book i'm reading on the n800 i'm gonna switch to diablo21:15
n800ni think21:15
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n800ni f i get the balls.21:15
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ralann|mbpi sqitched a couple days ago21:18
lcukn800n, if you add the right rpoe, you can just do "apt-get install balls"21:18
Talus_n810what book is that?21:18
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n800nbrave new world21:18
ralann|mbpit's actually not a painful upgrade21:18
qwerty12_N800you  won't find that package on lcuk's repo :p21:19
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ralann|mbpthe builtin email program is actually usable21:19
n800ni use webmail21:19
lcukno qwerty12_N800 there isnt enough space to fit them in21:19
n800ni've read 6 books in fbreader so far21:20
n800nif not more21:20
* _matthias_ loves the new integrated mail program21:20
n800ni love having all those books with me21:20
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RST38hOh dear! They have fixed the Modest crash bug!!!21:27
lcukthey didnt fix the firefox 3 crash bug though, mines just vanished21:28
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Addisonqwerty!!!  What's up homie?  :o)21:30
andre___RST38h, well, happens. :-P21:31
GeneralAntilleslol. . . .21:31
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AddisonHey jott, any chance you're conscious right now?  :)21:33
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timelyxandre___: ping timeout :)21:38
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jottAddison: more or less ;)21:39
timelyxX-Fade: i thought i saw nix earlier this week ...21:40
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timelyxsp3000: on windows, iirc where.exe has specific support for searching PATH :)21:42
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RST38handre: Well, if it only were available as an update...21:45
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, svn?21:45
RST38hGA: I am too lazy to compile system packages from SVN21:45
RST38hextras-devel is the most I can make myself use21:45
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GeneralAntillesjohnx compiled it yesterday21:46
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GeneralAntillesI'm sure you can talk him into tossing you a binary21:46
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RST38hGA: =)21:47
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andre___RST38h, i do hope that they are going to ship an Email and Browser update. Too many bugs, IMO21:49
GeneralAntillesToo many indeed. . . .21:49
lcukbut this is the cast iron test of diablo is it not?21:50
jottheh now if this only would not break osso-software-version-* :p21:50
timelyxandre___: thanks for pushing the google presentations thing :)21:51
GeneralAntillesjott, install osso-software-version-rx*4-unlocked21:51
timelyxbtw, definitely use the logger when you run into browser reports :)21:51
jottGeneralAntilles: as enduser?!21:51
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andre___timelyx, we're good citizens, aren't we? ;-)21:51
timelyxandre___: we're going to try to have a number of updates (no guarantees)21:51
andre___yeah, i heard rumours...21:52
timelyxandre___: nice and painless logging eh, ? :)21:52
GeneralAntillesEr, what's your point? If you're installing a compiled Modest svn, then you can probably manage an apt-get install, if it's being pushed via SSU, then osso-software-version gets updated.21:52
* lcuk strokes (still empty atm)21:52
jottGeneralAntilles: yep, only wonder if they really bump the o-s-v for every "minor" package update :)21:52
GeneralAntillesThey'd have to.21:53
timelyxjott: we plan to21:53
* jott does not care about osso-software-version-* at all21:53
keesjlcuk: going open source?21:53
timelyxthat's the package that gets updated21:53
timelyxeverything else is pulled in by dependencies21:53
lcukkeesj :) yes21:53
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* timelyx sighs21:54
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timelyxlcdd: that'll be on w/ the next sync, after i get more quota space :)21:54
timelyxandre___: anyway, did the change bite you badly?21:55
jottlcuk: still hesistating?! :)21:55
timelyx(the sun is setting on this conversation, quite literally)21:55
lcuktimelyx, not yet it wont, ive still got to compile and learn about svn for the tablet21:55
lcuknot at all jott, ive given the source to some folks now21:55
lcukits all tagged up, just making arrangements21:56
andre___timelyx, well, i was surprised. but hey, i won't contradict anybody who minimizes my workload :-P21:56
GeneralAntillestimelyx, I was thinking about throwing the " isn't actually part of Maemo Software"-wrench into the works. :D21:56
qwerty12_N800lcuk, thanks21:56
andre___it's good to see that it's possible. and i like it, it's not that intrusive and probably the best way to keep the house clean21:57
lcukqwerty12_N800, :P you shouldnt have it yet21:57
timelyxlcuk: oh, it'll probably take me a month before that happens21:57
timelyxGeneralAntilles: the website product should move to maemo.org21:57
lcukthats ok, it might take me a month to get svn on my 81021:57
timelyxand Misdirected can move to anywhere21:57
qwerty12_N800lcuk, i'm patiently waiting :) :p21:57
timelyxi just can't do anything like that until andre___ decides it's ok to frighten users21:57
timelyxatm there are a handful of people who can see it21:58
Edgesterhi, I'm getting the kernel error "JFFS2 compression type 0x07 not available." when trying to modify the rootfs image on a ubuntu machine. what should I do to add LZMO compress to jffs2 on my desktop?21:58
andre___timelyx, i assume that guenther and me will discuss a lot of stuff this week when meeting at guadec. after that we can go on21:58
timelyxi think website is the only product that moves to maemo.org21:58
timelyxandre___: ok21:58
andre___would fit better other there, indeed.21:58
timelyxanyway, it's a framework21:58
lcuk:) fair enough qwerty12_N800, its nothing special really but if its able to be used at all to improve the tablet experience for just a few people then im happy21:58
timelyxi left some notes w/ GeneralAntilles21:59
timelyxbasically there needs to be a Nokia for ITVC and a for Websites21:59
lcuk:) ive learnt so much this year and i wouldnt have done it without you lot21:59
timelyxas soon as either thing happens, *everyone* sees that extra screen21:59
jottEdgester: use a newer kernel or apply the appropiate patches to the current one...21:59
timelyxif you think people can deal w/ the extra screen, then good21:59
GeneralAntillesandre___, did I toss the proposal at you yet?
timelyxotherwise you could do a template ala mozilla.org21:59
qwerty12_N800lcuk, i know I won't be able to do anything with it but it seems really interesting to look at :)22:00
Edgesterjott: what kernel version should I use? is there a newer distro that includes this?22:00
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timelyxGeneralAntilles: it's possible to disable the garage tracker22:00
timelyxat least per project22:00
timelyxi disabled it for browser when i became a garage admin :)22:00
lcukqwerty12_N800, i just like having something that moves quick and responds well to my touch and stylus22:00
lcuki am impatient22:00
* andre___ takes a look22:00
timelyxif we migrate slowly, you can disable it project at a time22:01
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Edgesterjott: where is the lzmo patch?22:01
lcukanyway, now ive got all that i can start to build applications using the principles ive found22:01
andre___GeneralAntilles, looks great, thanks!22:01
lcukive already started to migrate to c++ so i can code up the bits which were getting hairy in c22:01
timelyxGeneralAntilles: if you want bits so that you can let other people see the way things are now, andre___ or i can give you browser-extras grant22:01
timelyxthat way others can get a sneak peek and give feedback22:02
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lcukjott, are you comfortable using svn on your desktop?22:02
lcukor anyone22:02
megabyte405lcuk: need svn help?22:02
timelyxbut if you want it from me, i think you have ~10 mins left until sunday :)22:02
jottEdgester: i think this is the place where it occured22:02
timelyx"This task is in the list of proposals, please help planning and getting it ready for a sprint. Add yourself if you are interested."22:03
timelyxadd yourself /where/ ?22:03
lcukmegabyte405, i need svn itself on the tablet, i do all dev work directly on it (gcc etc on device) and files stored on mmc122:03
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GeneralAntillestimelyx, yeah, that was Quim's wording.22:03
lcukso to get a decent workflow im gonna have to get svn running, but i dont know where to start22:03
megabyte405you could try installing from armel debian22:03
jottlcuk: you need an svn package for the device?22:03
GeneralAntillesNeed to figure out a better structure for proposals, probably.22:03
lcukyer jott22:03
GeneralAntillesIt's from the global template, so it's not page-specific22:04
jottit's in chinook extras as "subversion"22:04
lcukive tried searching but google is no help... doh!22:04
timelyxbut it's buggy in the global template22:04
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Edgesterjott: thanks22:04
lcuklol jott :) thanks, ill see if i can get it22:04
timelyxit either means "add yourself to a list in this page" or "add yourself in a list on the talk page"22:05
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timelyxat the very least it's dangerously ambiguous22:05
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timelyx(note that my wording is merely for clarity not for direct inclusion)22:05
jottlcuk: :)22:05
lcukthanks jott, i was looking for svn22:06
GeneralAntillesHow about "Put a note on the talk page if you're interested in picking this up" ?22:06
jottEdgester: might just check and pull the patch there.. or just use the current release version22:06
GeneralAntillesor maybe, "Put a note on the talk page if you're interested in pushing this task."22:06
timelyxs/picking this up/helping work on this/22:06
andre___timelyx, GeneralAntilles: need to pack my suitcase and prepare some other stuff. see you later, i'll read the backlog :-)22:06
timelyxor that22:06
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Addison44Hey, quick question for you guys.  Is there a way to remove the cursor in Xterm so that it doesn't appear?22:07
GeneralAntillesLater, andre___.22:07
* sp3000 slaps supld22:08
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sp3000mind closing the connection some time soon?22:08
* lcuk goes and reads the svn manual and tries to grok it22:08
qwerty12_N800Where's the wet fish!?!22:08
dnearyAnyone have a suggestion for the next WPotD?22:09
Addison44qwerty!  What's up G Money Dog Nuts!?!!!22:09
Addison44Did you get my private message?  For some reason, this server keeps chucking me out.22:09
timelyxGeneralAntilles: load
qwerty12_N800Addison44, no22:09
GeneralAntillesI see the new bit, timelyx.22:10
Addison44Hey qwerty, I asked how my favorite bold and smoldering volcanoe of virile manhood was doing.  :)22:10
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timelyxGeneralAntilles: try turning it on for sp300022:10
timelyxyou can use him for feedback :)22:10
Addison44Hey qwert, any chance you might have an answer for that cursor Xterm thingie question I just posted?22:11
qwerty12_N800nope, sorry22:11
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Addison44Okay.  Didn't think so.  Thanks anyway though.22:12
Addison44Is there a way to get your Putty version to work full screen?22:12
Addison44I can't seem to find an option for that.22:12
GeneralAntillestimelyx, should be done.22:13
GeneralAntillesUpdated the template, too.22:13
qwerty12_N800Addison44, Maybe it has to be done in the code, but i don't have the debianised code anymore :/ (+ I probably wouldn't figure how to either :/)22:14
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sp3000general | suggestions?22:16
sp3000we do have enh22:16
timelyxsp3000: hrm22:16
GeneralAntillesYeah, I meant to ask that one.22:16
sp3000(sure, I kinda see the mapping to bugs | feature requests classes on garage)22:17
sp3000but I dunno if that's good legacy22:17
timelyxnote: i don't know anything about garage22:17
GeneralAntillesI'd say, "no".22:17
timelyxbut for browser-extras, it's likely that a lot of people would say "please port X"22:17
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sp3000yeah, that would have been guess #222:17
timelyxi'd kinda like that to be easily seen as opposed to other thing22:17
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timelyxit should probably be called "Requested Ports/Packages"22:18
timelyxbut that's way too long22:18
* sp3000 clicks and finds out there actually is a #2 on freenode22:18
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sp3000it's rather small though22:18
NailorAnyone familiar with any ssh askpass software for os2008?22:18
timelyxanyway, suggest a better name22:19
timelyxi think GAN can fix it22:19
timelyxyou're right that the name is risky and likely to give the wrong impression22:19
Nailori found one, but it's apparently for 200722:19
timelyxone question is how many components should b-e get initially22:19
timelyxone for each package? one per package class?22:19
timelyxshould everyone default to a component for "web site"?22:20
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timelyxsince everyone w/ garage projects should have a web site22:20
timelyxand most likely it sucks22:20
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timelyxand it probably isn't their primary product22:20
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timelyxperhaps all garage projects should have 2 default components, general, website22:20
GeneralAntillesThat makes sense22:21
lcukqwerty12_N800, you have shown pictures of linux windows running seamlessly within xp22:21
lcukwhats that called?22:21
* sp3000 would go with just General22:21
sp3000but I'm an organizational minimalist :P22:21
lcukthanks GeneralAntilles and qwerty12_N800 :)22:21
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lcukif i cant speed up c++ compilation times i might as well see if theres another way to solve it22:22
JaffaandLinux is very cool. Very impressed with it today22:22
timelyxjaffa: how do you spell wEb-Site?22:22
ShadowJKthe file manager just wiped all the videos on my cellphone via bluetooth D:22:22
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lcukjaffa, is your week from hell over now then or are you in tomorrow?22:23
Jaffatimelyx: I usually use "website" or "web site". I've known style guides which insist "Web" should be capitalised.22:23
qwerty12_N800ShadowJK, Damn, got a lot of porn to get back? :p22:23
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ShadowJKI was going to move one video to N810, but accidentally had entire folder selected in left hand column, so I tapped Stop. Apparently it stopped transfering the files, but continued with the delete part of the move operation...22:23
Jaffalcuk: going down to stay with the in-laws tomorrow for Mrs Jaffa's cousin's baby's birthday.22:23
Jaffalcuk: you decide ;-)22:23
JaffaFood ready. Beer o'clock.22:23
lcuk:D nice22:23
lcukyou need it22:23
lcukjaffa, i ended up deciding on gpl 2 by the way, maximum sharing potential with other projects round here22:24
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lcukill leave artistic for another day22:25
timelyxGeneralAntilles/ sp3000: reload describecomponents22:25
timelyxanyway, my time has expired22:26
GeneralAntillesLooks good22:26
qwerty12_N800btw lcuk, if you need any help with andlinux, let me know22:26
GeneralAntillesThanks, timelyx!22:26
timelyxbtw for the rest of the channel: yes, i know you can't follow that link today. try again next month22:26
timelyx(or ask GeneralAntilles)22:26
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lcukthanks qwerty12_N800, im just reading the site now and getting requirements, it will also simplify matters if i can use a gui for svn and stuff22:27
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qwerty12_N800lcuk, i only ever use svn co, so i don't know about linux guis sorry.22:29
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lcukits not really a gui i need, but im visual so ill just right click on a folder somewhere and push or pull latest22:30
* lcuk hates remembering archaic incantations in the commandline22:31
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GeneralAntillesSuch a Windows user. . . .22:31
lcukvisual developer :) and i dont think im doin so badly so far22:31
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lcuki dont care what os it is, aint mac the same with point n click22:32
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qwerty12_N800you have terminal too in os x22:32
lcuki have one in windows as well: doesnt mean i use it22:33
RST38hMacs only have One Button!22:33
lcuksome have none22:33
*** GeneralAntilles changes topic to " | Diablo Released! | | Maemo Summit: | Create the new logo: | Help fix the Wiki Page of the day for July 4th:"22:33
GeneralAntillesUgh, I don't even want to look at that page.22:33
GeneralAntillesOS X is mostly *nix22:34
lcukcan't we "fix" it by starting again22:34
qwerty12_N800Did the usb networking one get fixed?22:34
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lcuk"to boot from mmc, invite a knowledgable friend round and whilst you make beers they will do it for you"22:34
GeneralAntillesI'm not in love with it, though.22:34
lcuki tried once22:35
lcukmiserable failure22:35
GeneralAntillesSomebody who knows penguinbait's stuff should probably write something up for that.22:35
GeneralAntillesand probably milhouse's script for slightly-more-involved but slightly-less-evil22:35
* qwerty12_N800 has only ever used milhouses script22:36
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GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800, you want to pull his instructions from itT, par them down a touch (Sardine can definitely go), update for Diablo and stick them on the wiki?22:36
GeneralAntillesThe first and most striking issue with the "MMC" booting page is "MMC". <_<22:37
qwerty12_N800I could modify the script and have a go with the wiki but the script isn't exactlyfault tolerant.22:37
GeneralAntillesYeah, that's true.22:38
EdgesterCan I mount the rootfs image on the my n800?22:38
GeneralAntillesI'd do it myself, but I'm not entirely clear on the kernel modules step.22:38
GeneralAntillesI seem to remember insmodding stuff from the initfs, but I don't really recall.22:38
GeneralAntillesEdgester, turn it on?22:38
GeneralAntillesIt definitely doesn't have enough RAM to mount the image itself.22:39
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EdgesterCan I use block2mtd and mount the rootfs image that flasher uses on my n800 without flashing?22:39
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qwerty12_N800GeneralAntilles, the two insmod lines already present on that page for an N800 with os2007 would work with diablo, just replace 2.6.18-omap1 with 2.6.21-omap122:41
jottor with $(uname -r) ;)22:42
qwerty12_N800i was coming onto  that ;)22:42
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GeneralAntillesI'm working over the bootmenu part22:42
jottactually you don't need the bootmenu at all ;)22:42
GeneralAntillesTrue, but it's a recommended step.22:43
GeneralAntillesgetting usbnet ssh recovery is good.22:43
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jottyeah otoh you can just use the flasher again to switch to mtd/flash boot22:43
Edgestereh, maybe I'll just flash to diablo22:43
qwerty12_N800jott, cal-tool/flasher-3.0 is long to use ;)22:43
qwerty12_N800when you could use bootmenu instead :)22:44
GeneralAntillesjott, think of the newbies.22:44
jottactually it's just "flasher --set-root-device mmc" and ready ..22:44
GeneralAntillesand bootmenu is just "pick the one you want from a list"22:44
GeneralAntillesand doesn't require a lot of fiddling in xterm22:45
jottiff you got the bootmenu.conf right...22:45
GeneralAntillesjott, why do you want them to use flasher, anyway. :P22:45
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jotthum? i used the bootmenu with chinook, but now i just use the normal initfs with mmc as root ;)22:46
jotti never booted from flash anyway after mmc was running ;)22:46
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GeneralAntillesMeh, works for you, but, personally, I'd rather have as many people as possible using the bootmenu22:46
GeneralAntillesmakes my troubleshooting work that much easier22:46
jotthm anyhow.. both ways are fine for me.22:47
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GeneralAntillesWhich is good, but giving people unnecessary choices in guides like these generally just results in confusion. :P22:47
jottjust using flasher is imho easier..22:47
jottwell do what ever you think is best for an enduser ;)22:48
GeneralAntillesI am. :P22:48
jottmaybe using rsync -a instead of tar is better..22:49
AStormcp -a22:49
jottas rsync is apt-getable22:49
AStormit wins22:49
jottor cp22:49
jottrsync --progress is just more verbose ;)22:49
GeneralAntillesNot a bad idea, somebody want to improve this script to handle that?
AStormrsync tests the destination dir and removes files too22:50
AStormso it's slower, it has to stat everything :>22:50
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jottbut perception is faster as you got a progress ;)22:51
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AStormtime isn't ;P22:52
RST38hhurrah! Mastergear does x3 magnification in gamegear mode!22:53
qwerty12_N800it's meant for n00bs, think they are going to realise? :p22:53
* RST38h is going to try magnifying vgba x322:54
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RST38hShit, Maemo version of libz is still somewhat broken22:59
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qwerty12_N800compile your own and replace the control with the maemo one. dirty, but ensures things don't fuck up for users :/23:01
* qwerty12_N800 did that with kernel-diablo-flasher to distrobute rotation kernel :/23:01
RST38hIt is not THAT broken though23:01
RST38hJust incompatible with some gz files packed with previous versions23:01
RST38hYeaaah, a few people will be very happy with the new VGBA =)23:03
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RST38hWhat are the dimensions of a standard Maemo window?23:07
RST38h(internal dimensions I mean)23:07
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AtariiRST38h x3 now works in vgba?23:08
JaffaErm, 720x362 or something. There's a clear diagram on one of the "Introduction to Maemo" documents23:08
RST38h720x400 I guess23:09
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lcukRST38h, internal, as in within maemo bits or with extra window framing23:11
RST38hAtarii: yep23:11
Atariimega win23:11
RST38hrectangle inside the frame23:11
RST38hI am keeping the frame, it is tidier this way23:11
Atariidoes it play .gb? or .gba only?23:12
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lcukRST38h, isnt that theme specific?23:12
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lcukok, back later, giving control of pc away23:14
RST38hlcuk: don't think so23:14
RST38hAtarii: it plays gba23:14
RST38hVGB plays .gb and it is also coming23:14
lcukdo you find the games work ok after you cut the sides off them?23:15
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lcuki ask because i wonder how you fit them into the mmc slot23:16
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Atariiho ho ho23:18
Atariiooo that reminds me, i need to trim my 2in1 mmc/micro sd adapter23:18
RST38hlcuk: melt and pour23:18
pupnikthis guy is pretty amazing23:20
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Atariilink looks like gay pr0n :S23:21
pupniklots of crappy scripts on the site but there's a funny interview with him - the guy is hilarious23:21
* Jaffa has a mini rant on ITT about people saying "I won't have anything to contribute"23:23
Jaffa[at the Maemo summit]23:23
RST38hJaffa: Contribute to what?23:24
JaffaRST38h: to the Maemo Summit in September.23:24
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* qwerty12_N800 imagines Karel Jansens at the summit... Or rather not ;)23:25
GeneralAntillesHe had a mild reformation, seemingly.23:25
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RST38hWhat is the problem with having nothing to contribute though?23:26
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RST38hGA: What? Pandora missed another release deadline, so he ran out of breath?23:26
JaffaRST38h: exactly. You can't have everyone attending present something, you need *attendees* as well as presenters.23:26
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, I think this is what threw people: "An only condition for you would be to contribute to the program somehow: present something in a lightning session, facilitate a BoF or a workshop..."23:26
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RST38hJaffa: It is tickets + hotel + time off day job23:27
kuzewHello all, what happend to hidd with Diablo? Doesn't seem to be there.. ):23:27
RST38hJaffa: In other words, no way =(23:27
JaffaRST38h: indeed; although Nokia've got some budget to fund people travelling. Personally, I want hotel better than hostel and can afford the expense (by finding cheap travel and cheap(ish) hotel) to fund it myself; leaving more of the budget available for others.23:28
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RST38hJaffa: I would put more emphasis on making event distributed over internet23:29
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JaffaRST38h: I suspect that will be orders of magnitude less successful.23:29
RST38hSo that people participating remotely get the maximum presence experience23:29
JaffaNot to say it shouldn't be done. It's just time consuming and sub-optimal (IMHO)23:29
RST38hWell, then at least select the location with most users23:30
RST38hOn the other hand, it is probably US and it means that folks from Poland, etc. won't be able to attend =(23:30
Jaffas/most users/most contributors/23:31
JaffaAnyway, they're pinning it on the back of OSiM World (in Berlin); Nokia are from Finland; LinuxTag doesn't seem to suffer from being in Berlin; ...23:31
pupnikberlin is worth visiting23:32
RST38hexpensive though23:32
RST38hwill cost at least $1000, with tickets and all23:33
RST38hIt is easy for Steve Jobs to gather the faithful as they only need to drive a few hours in most cases, but Nokia is different in this sense =(23:34
JaffaRST38h: apply for sponsorship if you're that bothered; otherwise it sounds like you're griping cos it's not near you.23:35
RST38hActually, it is relatively near me :)23:35
JaffaPersonally, I've absolutely *no* idea where most users/contributors are.23:35
JaffaRST38h: ah, ok :)23:35
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JaffaExpensive travel systems near you then?23:35
RST38hJaffa: it would be interesting to find out though =)23:35
RST38hJaffa: prolly e300 for a ticket from Moscow and back + hotel23:35
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RST38hJaffa: not worth the money for me23:36
JaffaThink of what it'd do to your reputation with Nokia though if there's an N900 discount programme ;-)23:36
JamieBennettJaffa: Mmmm23:37
RST38hFor this amount of money I would probably be able to just buy N900 unsubsidized :)23:37
JamieBennettI going for the free t-shirts ;)23:37
JaffaRST38h: hence the sponsorship23:37
JaffaJamieBennett: well, that too - hoping to pack light by getting freebies as spares :)23:38
* RST38h made resizing a little bit TOO intelligent23:38
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RST38hit now resizes to 600x320 when in windowed mode23:39
JamieBennettJaffa: I have one from some work I did before but its bright blue, hoping to bag a less garish one if they are available.23:39
JamieBennettJaffa: Are you attending OSim aswell?23:40
JaffaJamieBennett: hoping to; just need to confirm time off work.23:41
JaffaJamieBennett: For some very odd reasons it looks like travel will be on a 5 hour train from Apeldoorn in .nl to Berlin on the Tuesday/Saturday - but for only 36 eur each way.23:41
JamieBennettI'm the same, hoping to go but I'll find out Monday if I can get the go ahead from work23:41
pupnikRST38h: has a valid issue with spending $1k on a conference.  it's quite a good suggestion to think about at least a webcam stream + chatroom23:42
JamieBennettJaffa: Where are you travelling from?23:42
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JaffaJamieBennett: UK. But Mrs Jaffa & in-laws are going to Arnhem on the Monday and coming back the following Monday. So will tag along with them on the Monday and get the train on Tuesday. Was always planning to go back to them after the summit, but flights from Berlin to Amsterdam/Eindhoven/... are nightmarishly expensive.23:43
jottpupnik: you could also pay 4200 euro for the complete osim event ;)23:44
JamieBennettI'm going from Bristol on the Tuesday. Flights are <£60 return! I was pretty surprised at that.23:45
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lcukjaffa, for linuxtag i flew manchester->amsterdam->berlin     and berlin->paris->manchester i had a great whistlestop airport tour23:56
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