IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2008-06-30

lbtlcuk: OK - I give up...00:02
lbtwant to have a look?00:03
lcukyer gfi00:03
lbtI'll send you a tar file if you like... easier00:03
lcukwhichever you like00:03
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timelyxsp3000: yeah, i saw your ping00:04
lbthmm - includes .o etc00:04
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timelyxsp3000: there was half a plan to deal w/ it00:08
timelyxi suppose you could just rely on the version field for email clients00:09
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aquatixNavi: sorry, ran out00:13
aquatixi was looking for things like iwlist and iwconfig00:13
Toba_ok I asked this before00:13
Toba_but what is the maximum size mini/micro sdhc card that can be used in an n81000:13
Toba_the manual says 8 but I heard someone say that 16 worked00:14
Toba_I think00:14
aquatixthe largest one available :)00:14
Toba_but that may have been in an n80000:14
aquatixi should work, but you better try00:14
lcuklbt, ive also got a c++ issue, but im not sure how to ask the question.  perhaps im trying to do something wrong but once i get your mail address ill show you what i mean00:16
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aquatixmeh, gotta run00:16
aquatixbye all00:16
lcukcy aquatix00:16
lbtshould have arrived by now (nb change frog to state in the constructor - experiment gone wrong)00:17
lcuksent to .com?00:17
lcukhmmm, still 134 unread00:18
lbtThere is a bug somewhere. repeated consecutive calls to get/set work...00:19
lcukand a hotmail test just came through00:19
lbtif gtkmm carries on running it seems to overwrite00:19
lbtlemme see...00:19
lcukwhen i said "sent to .com" i sent via hotmail and its in already00:19
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lbtno bounces here... <sigh> try again...00:21
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lcukg is normally fastest at getting stuff00:22
lcukbut it has silly rules about contents of zips00:22
lbttrying, cc'ing my gmail acc00:23
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lbtin my gmail...00:24
lcukand mine now00:24
lbtthis is the smaller, clean version00:24
lbtso needs buildtools...00:25
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lbtonly 6 files though!!00:25
kkrustyI really would appreciate if someone told me whether breakpoints/debugging works under ESBox/eclipse00:26
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zapopenssh does not install on diablo00:40
zaphow people lives without it?00:40
zapthe deb files from garage won't install00:40
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zapI guess because of different openssh libs00:41
timelyxwhat's wrong w/ the ones from chinook?00:41
crashanddie_zap, works nice here00:41
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zapah damnit00:41
zapthe web site contains pointers to bora repo00:42
timelyxJaffa / X-Fade: please zap jamie 3291/100:42
crashanddie_just use apt-get ?00:42
lbtis ddd available for scratchbox?00:42
lbtit says Package ddd is not available, but is referred to by another package.00:43
timelyxlbt: why not use gdbserver?00:43
timelyxthen you can use host ddd00:43
zapcrashanddie_: it's not in any of the installed repos00:43
lbtta - will google...00:43
zapand I have a lot of them00:43
timelyx(use gdb6.8 or newer on both sides)00:43
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Jaffatimelyx: does seem like a little bit AOLish to get some karma :)00:43
crashanddie_zap, it's in maemo extras00:44
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timelyxJaffa: karma modifier *= 0;00:44
Jaffatimelyx: commenting != karma++ ?00:44
timelyxpenalty for: driving engineers crazy00:44
timelyxif it is, i will personally rewrite the karma alg :)00:44
zapit's in maemo extras *for* chinook00:45
* Jaffa beds. More auto-builder fun can wait 'til tomorrow.00:45
crashanddie_zap, chinook apps work fine for diablo00:45
lcuklbt, ive just stripped out your state function and its working as expected over here00:45
zapcrashanddie_: except a few of them, and openssh seems one of them00:46
zapcrashanddie_: are you running diablo?00:46
crashanddie_zap, please stop spilling shit, I'm running diablo, and openssh works fine00:46
lbtlcuk: hmm - I'm building in a scratchbox - but this isn't weird stuff00:46
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lcukand i cant see any issues with the code: building it would be a bit diff though without an actual makefile, i cant get autotools on device00:47
lbtI think it's an interaction with something else in gtkmm00:47
lbtI do do some sig_bind stuff00:47
lbtwhich is essentially typecasting function arg lists - which could be icky00:48
lbtrepeated 'clean' calls work just fine...00:48
lbtover in MainWindow.cc00:48
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lbtI call:00:48
lbtand it works as expected00:49
lcukyer i saw, move to a pm though, people wont like flood ;)00:49
crashanddie_lbt, watch out not to flood though00:49
lbtwould i ? :D00:49
zapwith apt-get it pulled openssh-0.9.7 too00:49
lbtI just type fast00:49
crashanddie_zap, does it work?00:49
lbtanyhow, the next call to set_state shows a new value00:50
crashanddie_zap, sweet :)00:50
zapI was clicking on openssh-common deb file from browser00:50
mpetersonI can't seem to find the package that has mkfs.ext2 since I've upgraded to diablo, can anyone help me please?00:50
lbtso I think the mem's being overwritten somewhere...00:50
crashanddie_lbt give me a few minutes, I'll review your code00:51
lbtcrashanddie_: I think it's the whole app that's the problem, not the class (99% sure)00:52
lbtcrashanddie_: but yes please ! :)00:53
crashanddie_ok :) ten minutes sound good?00:53
lbtfine - would you like a tarball? and do you have sbox/autotools?00:54
lcukhmm lbt, i think you are right, the basic functions working (both tested and confirmed)00:54
lcukits when you get into making the callbacks and using mem_fun00:54
lbtwhen I call it from a menu callback - yes00:54
lcuki think anyway00:55
lcukbeing a n00b and all..00:55
lbtdoes that sigc::bind and sigc::mem_fun look right to you?00:55
lcukno, it all looks illogical but thats cos i know nothing about gtk00:55
lbtI only started learning this stuff on friday.... it's nice at first but the stl and some of the gtkmm stuff is a tad hairy...00:56
crashanddie_you using maemomm or gtkmm ?00:56
lcuk:D its fun being on the bleeding edge00:56
lbtI'm compiling in sbox00:57
lbtso I guess maemomm00:57
lcuklbt, crashanddie_ is a ++ old hand00:57
lcukim goin havin a bath00:57
lcukhave fun00:57
lbtthanks for the help00:57
lbtand sanity check :)00:57
crashanddie_lbt, maemomm is in fact gtkmm ported to the maemo platform, so it includes bindings for this platform00:58
lbtyep - maemomm then00:58
lbtit's a full, nice, working maemo app00:58
crashanddie_but they are separate :P00:59
lbtI've done a quick armel build and copied the binary to my tablet and it's good00:59
lbtall the docs are gtkmm00:59
lbtand I got caught by Glib::ustring::compose not being in maemomm00:59
lbtcrashanddie_: would you like a tarball? and do you have sbox/autotools?01:01
crashanddie_but gimme a sec, when you see another crashanddie connect, send me thr link01:02
crashanddie_this is my nit01:02
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lbtlet me know when it gets there...01:10
zapah, so cool, you can upload and boot a kernel onto n810 without flashhing it...01:12
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* Toba_ did not know that01:13
Toba_ < this looks to be the biggest thing you can get for an n810 right now...01:13
Toba_nothing else in minisd/microsd form factor is as big01:13
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Toba_can't find the mini or micro sdhc in anything bigger than an 801:13
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zapthere aren't any01:14
Toba_yeah, I didn't think so01:14
Toba_sandisk is supposedly coming out with them this month, but this month is almost over and I don't see 'em01:15
zapa cool yet unnoticed yet feature of Diablo is that it registers a hostname with DHCP server01:15
Toba_that's pretty cool01:15
zapi had to patch chinook for that01:15
zapand not I don't. Yes thats cool :)01:15
lbtthe gdbserver idea isn't quite working - I can connect - but any attempt to run gives a shared object file problem01:16
lbtgdb in the scratchbox works fine01:16
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lbtI guess it's because my host doesn't have libhildonmm so installed...01:17
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crashanddielbt, commands to execute, I'm not used to automake01:22
lbtdpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -d -b01:23
lbtit's the maemopad example IIRC01:23
crashanddie./configure: line 1259: syntax error near unexpected token `shopper,'01:23
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lbtare you in a scratchbox?01:24
lbtah - have you done apt-get install intltool01:25
lbtit needs a later version than std01:25
lbt(don't ask me why...)01:25
lbtI mainly just followed the tutorial...01:25
crashanddiesame error01:25
crashanddieI get a syntax error in ./configure01:25
GeneralAntillesShitstorm of stupidity  on itT . . . fun01:26
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, mostly why I'm not that active on it01:26
GeneralAntillesI remember when itT was cool and useful. . . .01:26
GeneralAntillesThose days are long gone.01:26
crashanddieI'm having the feeling all online communities have those passes01:26
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crashanddielbt, does your automake work ?01:27
GeneralAntillesI like the guys that ask about the Chinook/Diablo Extras error and the answer is on every page for 10 pages back. . . .01:27
lbtall the way to a shopper file01:27
lbtdoesn't do the .po stuff yet01:27
lbtsent you a new tarball01:28
crashanddielbt, if so, open up the configure file, and check the line 125901:28
crashanddieoh, ok01:28
lbtthe tarball is post-autoconfig but then make clean01:28
lbttarget is x8601:28
crashanddiewhy would you want to work with target x86 ?01:28
lbtit's easy for me - just works :)01:29
crashanddieyeah, sure01:29
lbtbig monitors... very big ;)01:29
crashanddiedidn't get any new tarball01:30
crashanddiebrb, gotta get some nicotine in my lungs (and probably some other shit too)01:31
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crashanddielbt, still no new email01:33
lbtjust resent and cc'ed my gmail account01:34
shackanis there any 'fake gps' system for os2008 which uses wifi location?01:34
lbtI guess it's too big (500k)01:34
crashanddiegmail accepts up to 15M01:34
crashanddiegot it01:34
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lbt(I've not!!)01:35
crashanddieok, this one works01:36
lcuklbt, i got the bigger one after the smaller one01:36
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lbtlcuk: you clean now?01:37
lcukyes thx01:37
lbtthat's what make clean does when you aim it wrong...01:37
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crashanddieoh what the...01:39
crashanddieNo package 'libossoemailinterface' found01:39
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lbtfakeroot apt-get install libhildonmm-dev libhildon-fmmm-dev   ???01:40
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lbtin gdb how do I set a watchpoint on a C++ private variable?01:44
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lbtno ddd so it's a bit of a pain :(01:45
Atariishackan look into triangulation, specifically the skyhook project01:45
Atariiheres a link to get you started
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lbtbut I did a breakpoint just aftet the class is instantiated and then tried to watch the class.var01:45
lbtbut it doesn't break...01:46
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crashanddielbt, I can't build it, no matter if I'm under x86 or armel, still that libossoemailinterface problem01:48
lbthmm - OK, let me look here...01:48
lbtcan you remove that -l from the Makefile?01:49
crashanddiefile:line ?01:51
lbttoplevel Makefile :10001:51
skiburis xfce on the n800 ok?01:52
skiburanybody have that?01:52
lbtstill works without that -lossoemailli......01:52
crashanddieI don't have a file shopper/Makefile01:53
lbtin the ./ directory (below src?)01:53
lbtdid I miss it somehow in the tar?01:54
lbtnope - it's there AFAICS...01:54
lbt-rw-rw-r-- david/greaves 25530 2008-06-29 22:00:04 Makefile01:54
lbtdid I send the wrong tar?01:55
crashanddielbt, ok, give me a path01:55
crashanddiethat's not a path01:55
crashanddie[sbox-DIABLO_X86: ~/sources/shopper] > ls Makefile01:55
crashanddiels: Makefile: No such file or directory01:55
crashanddie~/sources/shopper/src] > ls Makefile01:56
crashanddiels: Makefile: No such file or directory01:56
lbtI beleive ypu :)01:56
lbtdid I send the wrong tar?01:56
crashanddieI dunno01:56
lbtis what I meant to send...01:57
crashanddielooks kinda the same, only I don't have the Makefile01:59
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crashanddieI'm starting to wonder why people insist on using complex building tools during development, when obviously, it causes more issues than anything else02:02
lbtcause sorting the packaging out as you go is easier than dealing with a complex mess at the end?02:02
lbtIt's not helping though02:03
lbtcan you just do g++ `pkg ????`02:03
crashanddiegive me a command line, I'll execute it02:04
lbtok - lemme see02:04
lbti486-linux-gnu-g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I.. -I. -I. -DMAEMO_CHANGES -I/usr/include/hildonmm -I/usr/lib/hildonmm/include -I/usr/include/gtkmm-2.4 -I/usr/lib/gtkmm-2.4/include -I/usr/include/hildon-1 -I/usr/include/glibmm-2.4 -I/usr/lib/glibmm-2.4/include -I/usr/include/gdkmm-2.4 -I/usr/lib/gdkmm-2.4/include -I/usr/include/pangomm-1.4 -I/usr/include/atkmm-1.6 -I/usr/include/gtk-2.0 -I/usr/include/sigc++-2.0 -I/usr/lib/sigc++-2.0/include02:07
lbt-I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/lib/glib-2.0/include -I/usr/lib/gtk-2.0/include -I/usr/include/cairomm-1.0 -I/usr/include/pango-1.0 -I/usr/include/cairo -I/usr/include/freetype2 -I/usr/include/libpng12 -I/usr/include/atk-1.0 -I/usr/include/dbus-1.0 -I/usr/lib/dbus-1.0/include -I/usr/include/hildon-fmmm -I/usr/lib/hildon-fmmm/include -I/usr/include/hildon-fm-2      -g -O2 -MT main.o -MD -MP -MF ".deps/main.Tpo" \02:07
lbt          -c -o main.o `test -f '' || echo './'`;02:07
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crashanddielbt, fatal error: opening dependency file .deps/main.Tpo: No such file or directory02:09
lbthere's a pastebin of my make:
lbtOK - never mind02:09
lbtthe whole idea of following the tutorial was to do it "the right way"02:10
lbtbut clearly that's not happening02:10
jottlbt: if you want ddd, i build packages for chinook some time ago:
lbtI appreciate the effort you've put in though - thanks :)02:10
crashanddiesorry I couldn't be of more help02:11
lbtjott: thanks - that would be good - I'd started to do it through gdb but that hurts!02:11
crashanddiewell, i'll go bughunting again02:11
lbtcrashanddie not at all ...02:11
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GeneralAntillesandre___, duplicate? :D02:28
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GeneralAntillesAnybody know how often the repository updates take place in the background?02:48
GeneralAntilles(in Diablo)02:48
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, should be easy to check with some apt sniffing02:49
crashanddienothing, I'm sure, you can't handle02:49
GeneralAntillesYeah, but it's easier for somebody who already knows to tell me. :P02:49
crashanddiebut I'd guess it's once every 24 hours, at most02:49
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Tenkawawouldnt it just use a timed check only when app manager is run02:50
Tenkawawhy would there necessarily be a cron/at job?02:50
GeneralAntillesUpdate notifications02:50
Tenkawathat would save a lot of unneeded bandwidth02:50
crashanddierepo update is really not a lot of bandwidth02:51
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TenkawaGeneralAntilles: yeah but is maemo designed to tell you on the fly if there are updates?02:51
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GeneralAntillesThere wouldn't be much point in having update notifications if it didn't check automatically.02:51
GeneralAntillesDiablo is02:51
crashanddieTenkawa, that's one of the Diablo features... :/02:51
Tenkawayeah but that could get chatty02:51
Tenkawajust open up the image and see if theres a cron/at job02:52
GeneralAntillesNo cron02:52
Tenkawathat would be the likely mechanism02:52
Tenkawaor possibly system-monitpr02:52
Tenkawaer monitor02:52
GeneralAntillesIt'd be alarmd if anything.02:52
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crashanddieI'm out02:53
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GeneralAntillesHow do you mean "chatty", anyway?02:54
crashanddiegetting eaten by a whole army of mosquitoes out here02:54
GeneralAntillesIt's just downloading a few zipped up text files.02:54
GeneralAntillesMosquitos in France?02:54
crashanddiewhat, you think there's no insects here ?02:54
GeneralAntillesNah, but mosquitos. . . .02:55
GeneralAntillesNevermind. :P02:55
crashanddiea mosquito is a mosquito right ? It's just something that sucks blood out of ya02:55
t_s_ohmm, whats the check interval for updates in diablo?02:57
crashanddieDJEEZUS SCROLL UP02:57
GeneralAntilleslol. . . .02:57
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t_s_oi could have sworn i looked and found nothing, sorry...02:58
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t_s_obah, there are days/weeks/months where i should just have stayed in bed...02:59
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GeneralAntillest_s_o, did you ever file a bug on those right/down-shifted dialogs?03:00
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t_s_oGeneralAntilles: nope, as they seems to have gone away after i had a reboot03:00
GeneralAntillesI saw one once03:00
GeneralAntillesSo I can at least confirm that it happens.03:00
t_s_oand i have no clue what triggered it...03:00
t_s_ohell, im starting to wonder if i should reflash, and this time just forget about restoring from backup...03:01
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t_s_oone thing is sure tho, diablo seems to really have cleaned up the sensor issues on the screen :)03:05
acydlordhildon desktop keeps rebooting on me anytime i try to change any of the widgets though03:06
t_s_ohmm, dont think i have seen that happen03:07
t_s_ounless you happen to use omweather that is...03:07
acydlordyeah, its been doing it since i sinstalled it03:07
acydlordand i havent removed it yet03:07
acydlordand my bluetooth dun doesnt seem to want to work anymore03:07
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t_s_odun works fine here03:08
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t_s_olove that update all button :D03:09
NaviWoo, update all03:10
acydlordyeah, dun isnt working for me03:10
acydlordright as my phone connects the n810 drops te connection and tells me failed03:10
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t_s_ocrap crap crap, i think i just had gpe calendar eat all data in a sync :(03:13
t_s_oand it seems to have been interpreted as a approved change down the sync chain even...03:14
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t_s_oindeed. i figured i could restore the computers calender by resyncing with the one i had on the phone. but what happened was that the phone was emptied out as well :S03:15
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acydlordi just use 30boxes to do all my cal mess03:16
acydlordluckily i dont have to worry about an offline calendar03:17
t_s_onot big of a loss tho, as only one entry was not already expired...03:18
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t_s_oim not surprised that it got deleted the way it was...03:18
acydlordthats good then03:18
t_s_oerr, im just...03:18
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acydlordweird, python didnt show up in apt for me03:46
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Capn_FishStskeeps: Still here?03:47
acydlordugh, bluetooth dun doesnt work worth a crap now03:49
pupnikoh by 5h3 2qy03:49
pupnikrudk 708 qll03:49
pupnikhey acydlord03:50
pupnikever take acid03:50
acydlordnot in a long time03:50
pupnikwell then i want your opinion on something03:50
pupnikI AM ACYDLORD03:51
acydlordif i can get that to load, i'm working with sub dialup speeds at the moment03:51
pupnikyeah well, be less banal with your next nick03:51
pupnikit's a fucking good video03:52
acydlordthats not loading for me at the moment03:55
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acydlordmy neighbors seriously need a better router03:55
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GeneralAntillesChristmas is only  6 months away03:56
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acydlordlooks like i'm gonna have to go back to chinook if i want to be able to use my evdo03:58
GeneralAntillesDUN works fine here03:58
acydlordnot for me for some reason03:58
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acydlordas soon as my phone says its connected the n810 says failed to connect04:01
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pupnikGeneralAntilles: please04:02
pupnikas a favor to me04:02
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GeneralAntillesI did. :P04:02
GeneralAntillesIt's trippy04:02
pupnikthere's things toi thingt abkout04:03
GeneralAntillesTrippy isn't _bad_04:03
pupniki'm done man04:04
pupnikjustg here to keep in touch with you and others04:04
pupniki'm so fucking done04:04
GeneralAntillesWith Nokia? With the tablets?04:05
pupnikno danger of bye bye04:05
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|penguinbait|thats something to think about alright :)04:20
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PhosphoricXI'm trying to use PyBluez to receive on a Bluetooth RFCOMM socket, but it just hangs until I close the connection. Anybody have a similar issue?04:51
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terboone dead n800.07:09
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johnxterbo, what happened to it?07:09
* terbo ?07:09
johnxwhat made it a dead n800?07:09
terboa flashing is whats happening to it .. besides that, nothing out of the ordinary ...07:09
* terbo is puzzled.07:10
GeneralAntillesIs it charged?07:10
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terbowell... i was preparing to flash diablo. cleared a card, was going to partition it in case i had some of the problems described.07:10
johnxah, well you said "one dead n800"...I was just curious07:10
terbofirst, it stopped reaching a full battery. just kept charging. thought ..07:11
terbostill booted. then i removed the swap, had /var/cache/apt linked to the card, removed that directory, still worked fine ..07:11
terbothen just as i go to partition the card, get a few white screens. now its just reboot-looping with no cards in it, cards in it, battery left out for a bit ... all (most) data backed up ..07:12
terbonow when i plug in the a/c instead of going 'charging' (this is the last 2008) it shows the battery icon, then proceeds to boot. loop . .07:13
terbo:D fun.07:13
GeneralAntillesThat's not "dead"07:14
terbodeader than i should have :(07:14
terbosometimes the blue bar goes about 1/5 the way then loops.07:14
terboshrug, im going to flash it anyway ..07:14
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terboGeneralAntilles: do you think there is some way to get it to boot?07:16
johnxwere you booting from SD?07:16
dyrgehas anyone had any luck with an sis usb vga dongle connection?07:19
GeneralAntillesWorks fine here, dyrge.07:19
GeneralAntillesThe software isn't really up to speed yet, though.07:19
dyrgewhat external resolutions does it support?07:20
dyrgei found software not up to speed on more than one occasion07:22
dyrgenot to say i do not enjoy the software that works well on the platform07:23
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johnxyup, that's a side effect of the "release early, release often" mentality07:25
GeneralAntillesdyrge, it's very beta07:25
GeneralAntillesYou have to invoke it from the commandline07:25
GeneralAntillesmost things up to 1280x102407:25
dyrgecool and it requires you to be in host mode i would suspect?07:26
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* johnx makes a mental note to check out xpra (screen for X11) again later:
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dyrgei read a few weeks ago about NOKIA wanting developers to write programs geared more toward enterprise and business07:32
GeneralAntillesIs that like "APPLE" and "MICROSOFT"?07:33
dyrgeyes for the tablet market in general07:33
m_mouserHe's asking about your use of all caps in Nokia, I think.07:35
dyrgesorry bout those07:35
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m_mouserI don't mind.07:36
ProteousL3375P34K 700, N0K14!!!07:36
* GeneralAntilles puts a cap in Proteous's ass.07:37
dyrgei guess it just of interest to me since my employer purchased my N81007:37
m_mouserAh.  I'd really like to see stronger and more full-featured PIM apps.07:39
dyrgeit fills my heart with joy knowing i am using a linux based device to support windows07:40
dyrgepim tools and and open office would be great07:41
dyrgei deal with most of that through remote sessions but would love to have something running native07:43
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m_mouserI think it might choke on full-fledged OOo, but Abiword should be enough in the meantime before a mobile version is developed and ported.07:43
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dyrgeanyone else use a tablet in their workplace?07:44
dyrgewell a .doc viewer would be beautiful at the least07:45
m_mouserI do.07:45
dyrgei support about 500 pc's with mine07:46
dyrgewith help from remote sesions ofcourse07:47
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dyrgebut if you have to support a windows machine VNC will be your best friend07:48
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dyrgeit's pretty slick to show someone an entire windows desktop at 800 x 480 on my 81007:49
m_mouserI'm just beginning to learn VNC & SSH, and have found the wiki tutorials very outdated07:50
dyrgedo you have to work with windows much07:50
GeneralAntillesWhich wiki?07:50
m_mouserGeneral: I'll check.07:51
m_mouserDyrge: Quite a lot, unfortunately.07:52
dyrgemost all i needed to know was on itt and the vnc part is painless07:52
dyrgetell you what i did07:52
dyrgeto keep from messing up my main xp machine I created a Virtual PC with XP and VNC any other programs i need and size the desktop to 800x480 it's a perfect fit when you remote in07:53
dyrgeif you have enough RAM and a spare xp Key to for the host machine07:54
terbodyrge: what of rdesktop?07:55
m_mouserGeneral: The SSH article I found was for the 770.07:55
GeneralAntillesm_mouser, what wiki? ;)07:55
GeneralAntillesThere are 307:55
GeneralAntillesold maemo.org07:55
GeneralAntillesand new maemo.org07:55
GeneralAntillesitT pretty much sucks07:55
GeneralAntillesold is, well, old07:55
GeneralAntillesnew is the future07:55
dyrgenope just ultra VNC with the VNC viewer any VNC server will work07:55
terboI liked rdesktop better, automatic scaling, but without a keyboard (n800) it wasn't as functional as vnc07:56
dyrgerdesktop doesn't work well on my network07:56
terbooh, why not?07:56
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dyrgeno idea i can use windows to remote but on the 810 it dies 90% of the time and if it logs it i do not know where07:57
dyrgeat home on my workgroup rdesktop works everytime07:57
m_mouserGeneral: it was probably from ITT.07:57
dyrgeit maybe something with the domain07:58
dyrgebut probably it's the wireless management device07:59
dyrgewe packet shape and packet filter08:00
dyrgei try to connect on the windows rdesktop port08:01
dyrgeit says "No Way"08:01
terboso you create an 800x400 windows desktop to connect to? how was that again?08:01
dyrgedownload virtual pc 200708:02
dyrgeit's free install xp08:02
dyrgethen VNC server , resize it to 800 x 480 and it fits perfect08:03
terboor use it as an alternate input device. ;)08:03
dyrgeit's nice to use office on the go but the office button in 2007 doesn't work so consider 200308:04
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dyrgei wish i had the talent to port somethings over to OS200808:05
terbolike what?08:07
dyrgesomething that opens .doc would be great08:07
* doc|home likes not being open :(08:07
terboto edit or to view?08:08
* Navi opens doc|home08:08
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* doc|home deads 08:08
dyrgewell you know they all have to use windows so Office goes hand in hand08:09
* terbo has had the problem once, and just converted to html, maybe even pdf08:09
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dyrgethat works but i get lots of attachments in my email08:10
dyrgeguess what file format they use08:10
dyrgenot RTF08:10
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terbohmm... tiff? lol08:10
dyrgedocx most of the time08:11
GAN800google docs works fine08:11
doc|homewait a minute, isn't there an abiword port for maemo?08:12
doc|homethat should open .docs08:12
dyrgei haven't found one08:12
GAN800There is, but it's still in beta.08:12
GAN800You're more than welcome to compile the svn.08:12
dyrgei am a hardware/software support guy i need to be friend a few people who can complie things..:)08:13
dyrgeer compile08:14
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* doc|home hasn't compiled for maemo :/08:14
dyrgei have had classes and such but have found i do not have a knack for code08:15
dyrgei can google it to death though08:15
doc|homehehe, it takes an idea and some time08:15
doc|homemotivation to solve a problem is all you need :)08:16
dyrgei solve things out of necessity mostly and pure luck at times08:16
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* terbo was going to flash diablo .. but got caught up into reading about scratchbox08:16
dyrgeit breaks up into xml at least08:17
dyrgenothing like .doc08:17
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dyrgesupporting windows pay the bills buys mygadgets and feeds my family so i can't complain08:18
dyrgebut i am a true fan of open source at heart08:19
dyrgejust don't tell my boss08:19
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dyrgewell i need to go work awaits me tomorrow nice chatting with you all08:23
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GAN800compiling is not coding. ;)08:24
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terbomake install -> small script. ;008:25
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RST38hboo, all08:26
GAN800boo, you08:27
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RST38hGAN: Did you have browserd hang in memory eating 11-18MB AFTER you quit all MicroB windows?08:35
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GAN800I'm guessing the changelog may reveal more.08:36
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* RST38h has not found anything about this misfeature in the changelog08:43
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GAN800There is no changelog yet.08:44
RST38hBrowserd *is* being described as the resident part of MicroB but it is not clear why it stays in memory when microb is not running08:44
RST38hThere was a comment on what browserd does08:44
GAN800I manages microb windows08:44
infobotGAN800 meant: It manages microb windows08:45
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RST38hGAN: Not exactly. Let us see what dpkg --status says:08:48
RST38hDescription: Network server exposing web engines functionaly using dbus-glib bindings08:48
RST38h This package contains server which allows its clients08:48
RST38h to create, manipulate and access functionality of08:48
RST38h different web engines.08:48
RST38h This enables creation of ultra-light-weight browser UIs08:48
RST38h which act as a mere 'shell' to a heavy-weight browser08:48
RST38h engines and therefore greatly less dependent on them.08:48
RST38h The server uses dbus-glib bindings for connectivity.08:48
RST38hNow I see why it would linger in memory: afaik there is no way to explicitely make dbus service close after use08:49
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corevettei know it's possible for my nokia 770 to control my pc via VNC, but can i do it vice versa? (control my 770 with a VNC?)09:02
terbotry synergy, if its control you want, though if you want to log in, there is an x11vnc server somewhere09:02
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* terbo squiggles09:19
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*** juergbi has joined #maemo09:31 has a bluetooth german layout keyboard for $6.00. Bought one, gonna see if I can hack it into an old NES controller to play emulated games on my n81009:32
* terbo ?09:36
* terbo wonders if 770's have u.fl connectors somewhere ...09:37
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terbogerman keyboard for $6USD? put into a nes controller? hope you document it if its successful ;)09:40
ProteousI'll take pictures09:41
Proteouswell, we will see if it even works09:41
ProteousI don't know how big the board in the keyboard are yet09:41
* terbo goes to hop on geeks09:41
* terbo is lovin the $60 16gb sdhc09:42
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terbowow, thats rad, and the only blue keyboard i see there09:45
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gomiamerm... ¿how can I transfer my old email to modest? I'm googling up and down and I can't find a simple way (and modest doesn't know about importing, it seems=10:02
doc|homegomiam: don't, use claws, modest = ass10:02
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gomiamdoc|home: mmm... yet another mail client?10:03
doc|homegomiam: yep, better than modest though10:03
gomiamdoes claws have a way to store mails on the memory cards?10:03
doc|homegomiam: yep10:03
doc|homeit has imap and pop10:03
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gomiamok, I guess I'll have to take a look at it10:04
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gomiamfortunately, I have no critical mail on modest right now.10:07
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macoutegomiam: you shouldnt, ever :)10:11
macouteyou should be using imap and have your mails backed up by your isp10:11
macouteor whoever provides you the email service10:11
gomiamI have had little problem with the standard Maemo mail client, since I use it mostly por emergency mail reading.10:12
gomiamthat's why I didn't want to bother replacing modest with anything.10:12
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terbogod .... *still* downloading scratchbox10:49
gomiamterbo: don't worry. It will fail at 87%10:50
terbo:) thanks, I was just going to try some make install scripting, anyway10:51
terboerr, cooding10:51
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keesjterbo: install scripting?10:52
* terbo make install joke10:53
terbono just gonna try some custom kernel stuff.10:53
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terbospecifically, I want to put my name in the version string. :D10:58
keesjyou can pay me 5 euro to do that if you want11:00
lbtEXTRAVERSION = .4-david11:00
lbtl33t hack11:01
terboerr, how about you can pay me 10US to not laugh at you? :)11:02
terboor we can just pay each other11:02
keesjthat is ony 6 euro :p11:02
terbodang non exporting economies. :/11:02
terbodang having only one usb port :/11:02
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lbtor $30011:02
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keesjhello hrw11:31
hrwwho use adv-backlight applet?11:34
GeneralAntillesI do.11:34
X-FadeMe too.11:34
GeneralAntillesandre___, poke.11:34
hrwone thing then... do you think that applet 'window' should close when tapped outside of it?11:36
GeneralAntillesOf course.11:37
GeneralAntillesYou want to figure out exactly how Nokia makes their applets work, hrw? ;)11:37
hrwGeneralAntilles: ;)11:39
hrw~curse 1Mbit connections11:40
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, 1Mbit connections !11:40
aquatixhrw: fwiw, i like pop-upped applets closing when tapping outside of it11:40
GeneralAntilleshrw, as it stands, adv-backlight is using something of a hack and the Nokia applets are using something more of a hack.11:41
GeneralAntillesThe result being that the current implementation for adv-backlight kinda sucks and rm_you's been unable to figure out exactly how Nokia goes about making their applets work the way they do.11:41
macoutebtw. does pidgin crash on your diablo quite frequently?11:41
macouteespecially when accepting (or even having pending) buddy requests11:42
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, can you poke somebody about and maybe ? Quim requested it.11:43
macoutehehe, seems like a way to lick new owners ass
hrwGeneralAntilles: whole maemo.... hack on hack on hack11:44
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I will ping Ferenc about it, when he is awake.11:45
aquatixanyone having problems with xmpp/jabber accounts in Collabora?11:45
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RST38htimeless: hey, are you there?12:04
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GeneralAntillesAre the sprint meetings likely to usually be around the end/beginning of the month?12:09
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: See the schedule on the 100days page.12:09
GeneralAntillesAh, right, I see. Thanks.12:10
X-FadeWe plan to make the channel moderated so the 'maemo team' can do their progress reports and after that open it up for questions.12:11
X-FadeI've put the logger in place, so I can publish the irclog later.12:11
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GeneralAntillesWe need to do a dry-run on the Maemo-meeting procedure at some point.12:12
GeneralAntillesI don't think we have enough of an agenda to bother trying do it before GUADEC.12:13
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: yeah, but Sprints and Maemo-meetings will be different.12:13
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X-FadeAlthough we will use the same channel to keep it simple ;)12:14
GeneralAntillesFreenode's services change may make things harder.12:14
GeneralAntillesI don't know if you can do a voice-by-default anymore. :\12:14
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GeneralAntillesSo it may come down to doing it through a bot or just manually.12:15
X-FadeIt seems I can easily voice everybody manually.12:17
andre___GeneralAntilles, pong12:17
GeneralAntillesTwo things, the "Clone This Bug" link should probably be made editbugs-only.12:18
GeneralAntillesand is #3313 really an enhancement? :P12:18
andre___hmm, so you really think that these both are related?12:19
keesjcan we learn the bot about bug numbers?12:19
melmothX-Fade: Do you know if whoever is in charge of the autobuilder was able to have a look at the sword i386 empty package in the repo i mentionned last week ?12:19
melmothX-Fade: or, better, do you know where should i open a formal bugzilla ?12:19
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andre___GeneralAntilles, about "Clone this bug", can you file a bug against Website/Bugzilla? :-D12:20
GeneralAntillesWill do.12:20
X-Fademelmoth: A yes, I wanted to ask you to try to upload the -5 to the chinook autobuilder. So we can see if it is SDK related.12:20
GeneralAntillesandre___, they both seem to stem from issues with saved connections.12:20
melmothok. Will try this out either this afternoon or tomorrow12:20
GeneralAntillesSomebody more familiar with icd should probably confirm that, but that's my suspicion. ;)12:21
X-Fademelmoth: And so we can really rule out packaging issues on your end.12:21
andre___GeneralAntilles, I will forward 3313 once I have an answer to my question other there. Thanks!12:21
GeneralAntilleskeesj, poke TimRiker about it.12:21
melmothfair enough. I'll let you know what happen12:21
X-Fademelmoth: I'll be watching ;)12:21
GeneralAntillesandre___, done.
andre___GeneralAntilles: cool, thanks. having bug reports is an easier way to let karsten do all the work instead of me ;-)))12:26
GeneralAntillesNow THAT sounds like a plan. :D12:27
andre___GeneralAntilles, btw, is bug 3289 a regression or has this always been like that?12:30
andre___(maybe you've made some backups in the past and know, while i didn't do)12:30
GeneralAntillesI poked Texrat about that one, so it went in through some sort of internal channel about a month ago.12:31
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andre___ok, going to forward then12:32
crashanddie_does anyone know where I could get info about libesd?12:32
hrwcrashanddie_: on esound website?12:32
crashanddie_it would seem esd is completely useless these days, no website, no support12:32
hrwI wonder when maemo will switch to pulseaudio12:32
RST38hwhat are the advantages?12:33
hrwRST38h: to say the true I have no idea - just see that other projects are going that way12:34
crashanddie_lighter, better performance, better architecture, apps don't need to implement it, up to date12:34
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RST38hWill it provide /dev/dsp API? Please?12:35
hrwRST38h: you mean 'OSS api'?12:35
RST38hhrw: Well, the generic subset of it, anyway12:35
hrwI am not application developer so did not checked12:36
crashanddie_pulseaudio is already backwards compatible with esd, OSS is yet another plugin12:36
crashanddie_but. yeah, it can12:36
RST38hwell, dev/dsp is actually a device not a library12:37
RST38hso supporting it as "yet another API" is nt trivial12:37
hrwand usually does not support more then one sound at time12:37
hrwbut I do not know when my systems had /dev/dsp last time12:38
RST38hActually, ALSA will support multiple clients12:38
hrwfew years ago when I had es1371 card probably12:38
macoutewhich is the better calendar, gpe-cal or mcalendar?12:38
RST38hDunno, it is still pretty standard. More standard than esound, anyway12:38
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macouteand how about syncing from outlook?12:39
hrwmacoute: why not pimlico dates?12:39
macoutehrw: you have the free to point me to other, more correct directions as well :)12:39
macoutehrw: youd say that is the best one?12:40
hrwmacoute: no, I just added 3rd to the list12:40
* dneary hates time pressure for presentations12:40
florian_good morning12:40
dnearyI have 2 presentations to prepare today... one on accessibility in GNOME, and another on building bridges between projects12:40
dnearyMorning Herr Boor, wie geht's?12:40
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macoutedanke gut, und du?12:41
macouteentschuldigung, und Sie? :)12:41
macoutemein Deutsch ist nicht so gut :)12:41
hrwjak to dobrze gdy wszyscy sie rozumieją ;)12:41
floriandneary: Ganz gut... aber auch keine Langeweile :-)12:42
macoutehrw: so you dont have any suggestions regarding my calendar problem? Do you know about the sync from outlook?12:42
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hrwmacoute: I do not use pim under os200812:42
dnearykeine Langweile?12:42
RST38h't sync to outlook12:42
RST38hMay sync with Google Calendar.12:42
dnearyIch suche im Google Language Tools12:42
macouteRST38h: any of them wont?12:42
RST38hmacoute: yep12:43
floriandneary: boredom iirc12:43
dnearyNo boredom12:44
dnearymacoute: Wir können dudichen.12:45
macoutedneary: dudichen?12:46
dnearyI don't know if you say that in German12:46
dneary"tutoyer" in French12:46
dneary"call each other du instead of Sie"12:46
macoutedneary: ah, sinutella in finnish (sinä == you)12:47
crashanddiedneary, quite hard to express in english12:47
macouteIch suchte Google für dudichen aber könnte nichts finden12:48
crashanddieplease speak english12:48
ccookemacoute: but you *will* find hits for tutoyer12:49
macoutethats fine for me, considering my skills in germany :)12:49
crashanddieok, what are you guys trying to find ?12:50
ccookeand for anyone curious:
macoutecrashanddie: i was actually looking for a calendar application for maemo, which could sync to outlook12:50
crashanddieso where the f did the whole tutoyer stuff come from ?12:51
ccookemacoute: if you find one, let me know!12:51
hrwmacoute: speaking of mcalendar... I never saw it before but now after having a look I would not even try it on my tablet12:51
macouteccooke: it seems that the syncing must be done via 3rd party application12:51
macoutehrw: really?12:52
hrwmacoute: I just refuse to use maemo packages which are created in ugly style12:52
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hrwall those 'chmox +x /usr/bin/mcalendar' in post install scripts...12:54
hrwor using wrapper scripts in /usr/bin/12:55
hrwor renaming files in post install scripts (ukmp)12:56
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hrwhi simon13:02
GeneralAntillesHey, lardman.13:02
lardmanhi Marcin13:02
lardmanAnything exciting happen over the weekend?13:02
GeneralAntillesandre___, something to put on your consideration-list is changing "IT OS" to "Maemo" for the OS field.13:03
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andre___oh yeah. that one confused me too13:05
andre___though we first have to define the maemo scope :-P13:06
GeneralAntillesWell, mostly clear enough for that, anyway, methinks.
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keesjwhy can't I find the changes required to add extras as reposutory in the sdk13:34
keesjI am turing around and following links and wiki pages and in progress pages13:34
keesjfollowing external links13:34
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GeneralAntillesAnybody happen to have a matched set of icons that might work for "proposed", "accepted", "ongoing" and "completed" for a task banner?13:38
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keesjGeneralAntilles: sounds like workflow stuff13:44
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GeneralAntillesIs what I need it for13:46
GeneralAntillesWho turned off svg uploading on the wiki? :\13:46
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keesjand who removed the Help in formatting13:56
RST38hGA: You can pic icons from there, it is open source afaik13:56
GeneralAntillesHrm, I guess it was never enabled, as it's disabled by default in a new mediawiki install.13:56
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ustunozgurWouldn't it be more logical if "New Chat" brought up Online contacts as default rather than All contacts?13:58
RST38hGA: http://www.cuteflow.org14:02
GeneralAntillesRST38h, might use this set:
GeneralAntillesThey're public domain14:02
RST38hthe problem is to find the whole set in the same style though14:03
GeneralAntillesI just need to make the checkmark green.14:03
GeneralAntillesSee the Other versions field.14:03
GeneralAntillesHe's got a bunch of them14:03
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RST38hyea, I see it, but are you sure that the color alone will be enough to denote state?14:03
GeneralAntillesFor Men?14:04
lardmancrashanddie_: congrats14:04
* RST38h is going to dig wikimedia a bit more14:04
GeneralAntillesCompleted (in green):
RST38h"Accepted" probably won't do14:12
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lcukcrashanddie_ nice one!14:13
aquatixcrashanddie_: congrats!14:13
aquatixwhich degree? :)14:13
GeneralAntillesYeah, I agree.14:13
lcukhes just worked out how far from kevin bacon he is14:14
RST38hGA: How about finding icons along these lines:14:14
RST38hProposed: arrow leading into an enclosure (bucket, box, etc)14:15
RST38hOngoing: same enclosure with a rotating (?) gear inside14:15
RST38hAccepted: like proposed but qithout question sign (proposed should have question sign)14:16
RST38hCompleted: arrow leading out of the enclosure14:16
GeneralAntillesBe easier just to make 'em14:17
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andre___hmm... so can garage project maintainers disable the GForge bugtracker for their project? anybody knows whether this is easily possible?14:19
macouteinz: you have had some serious problems with your irssi today?14:19
andre___(i'm wondering about modest)14:19
macouteinz: host keeps changing and you keep on connecting/disconnecting14:19
inzmacoute, according to my status window, that was yesterday14:19
macouteinz: ah, thats true. 23:4914:20
macoutefor the last time14:20
inzmacoute, somewhy failed to resolve last night and I did not reconnect to freenode...14:20
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GeneralAntillesandre___, why the hell are they tracking bugs there? :\14:20
inzmacoute, but indeed seems I dropped out of ircnet some 5-ish times14:22
macouteinz: yeah, i was actually talking about ircnet14:22
macouteyou reconnecting here with another host just remembered me about the situation14:23
inzJaffa, it is already scalable, but there's no real data sources14:23
andre___GeneralAntilles, well. because it wasn't official part of the platform before diablo was released14:24
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GeneralAntillesYes, but there's been a Bugzilla component for forever.14:25
andre___oh, i didn't know that. now that makes it confusing14:27
andre___i thought it was more recently14:27
GeneralAntillesEither way, the garage tracker for it needs to be closed down ASAP and migrated.14:28
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GeneralAntillesEarliest bugzilla bug: Earlist garage tracker bug:
andre___haha, great... entropy...14:32
andre___just preparing an email on that, also about changing the components names in maemo bugzilla, but first got to grab some breakfast :-)14:32
macoutebtw. you do recommend claws over modest, right?14:33
GeneralAntillesDepends on the person.14:33
GeneralAntillesI personally use and very much like Modest.14:33
macouteis there a way to mark messages as read just by selecting it in modest?14:33
macouteGeneralAntilles: is it possible in Modest? Now I need to click it open, so it takes about 2-3 secs per message, just to mark it as read14:34
macoute(i know i can do it from menu as well, but thats about the same time. even a shortcut would be nice)14:34
GeneralAntillesThere's a menu option, I believe14:34
GeneralAntillesDon't recall right now.14:34
GeneralAntillesEr, yeah.14:34
macoutei read my emails in very various ways, so i often have messages unread, though i have read them somewhere else14:35
GeneralAntillesWhy does Illustrator fail on these svgs? <_<14:35
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GeneralAntillesWoo, crashing apache threads.14:45
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lcukmeh!  its dinner time and my 810 is dead.  the last i saw of it was last night it told me "unplug from mains to save power"  i disconnected network and locked it :(15:00
* lcuk goes back to the stoneage. 15:01
lcukanyone got a pencil?15:01
rm_youno <_<15:01
lcukyou got the source code for a pencil?15:01
* rm_you looks around15:01
lcuk:D heh15:01
aquatixapt-get source pencil15:01
rm_youjust have the binarys for a Bic, too bad they're closed source <_<15:02
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lcukbut they are easy to disassemble15:02
* rm_you sleeps15:03
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aquatixrm_you: nn15:03
* lcuk takes notes in blood15:03
lcukgnite rm15:03
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aquatixlcuk: blood and your n8x0 stylus?15:07
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lcukaquatix, i dont think my stylus would break the skin.  and i wouldnt get bloodstains off the metalic bezel on the 810, so it looks like i will be  etching onto a cave wall or something15:15
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lcukthough, its a bit invonvenient to carry around a whole cave system.  i would prefer my 810 battery to just last the distance15:17
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, I cleaned this out a bit (still not great), might be worthwhile to coordinate the Extras stuff from here for now:
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Thanks, I am planning to write more documentation too. I just have to find some time for it ;)15:19
GeneralAntillesDon't kill yourself. :)15:19
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GeneralAntilleslol . . .
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Nah, I'm just busy with ironing out issues in builder/promoter we haven't seen while testing.15:27
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GeneralAntillesIs it me, or has Darius been medicated?15:29
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X-FadeYeah, totally different person.15:30
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, lol . . .15:39
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hrwlovely maemo bugs..15:46
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RST38hhrw: Wonderful15:55
hrwI also like 3315 bug15:55
* RST38h is still unsure which one of Modest and the new MicroB is more broken15:55
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RST38hModest is more obvious of course. But MicroB bug seems to be more fundamental15:56
crashanddie_I didn't have any problems...15:56
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RST38hcrash: look at the process list15:56
johnxmicrob has a couple annoying bugs15:56
hrw~curse lack of wget15:56
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, lack of wget !15:56
RST38hYou will see browserd process taking 15MB of your memory or so15:56
GeneralAntillesI'm not convinced that browserd's memory usage is all that critical.15:56
GeneralAntillesI mean, how much of that will be released easily when needed?15:56
RST38hNotice that it will stay there even after you quit all MicroB windows15:56
wazdlo all)15:57
RST38hGA: None15:57
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johnxhi wazd15:57
RST38hGA: As far as I can tell, Load applet shows actual memory taken by the process15:57
RST38hWon't be released unless you kill the process15:57
crashanddie_Rst38h, isn't that because it keeps a rendered copy of past history in memory?15:57
RST38hcrash: My guess is that it is because browserd is a dbus server and there is really no way to close dbus server once it is not needed15:58
RST38hSo the actual problem is that memory-hungry web browser should NOT be made a resident server15:58
timelessinz: ping15:59
crashanddie_Well I fail to see the disadvantages15:59
crashanddie_the idea is good, it just needs some finetuning15:59
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inztimeless, pong15:59
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johnxI'm with RST38h on this one. There's no reason to have the browser engine running all the time on such a memory limited device16:00
crashanddie_I mean, if you want to be memory efficient, the best thing to do would be to to regroup all recurrent stuff of multiple browsers into one single process16:00
crashanddie_sure, it should be able to free the memory when not needed, but the idea is not fundamentally bad16:01
aquatixit also seems MicroB is a tad slower/less responsive since diablo16:01
aquatixbut that might be subjective16:01
crashanddie_I have quit the oposite feeling16:01
crashanddie_placebo effect for both of us, prolly16:01
aquatixmaybe i should reboot my tablet16:01
aquatixplayed too much with it :)16:02
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johnxat least since flashing diablo I haven't had the browser suck up all my memory...I ran into that a couple times in the "pre-release" diablo16:02
aquatixaccording to load applet's Processes list, hilden-desktop takes 14MB, which sounds like a cause too16:02
aquatixmodest keeps crashing in the background with imap(s) account though :/16:03
johnxbut that should be including all shared libs, all statusbar applets and all desktop applets16:03
admin_hey, is there any way on the n770 to make the kernel not boot in 'quiet' mode, so you can watch something like this during bootup,  ?16:03
aquatixbut i thought i remember it being somewhat less in chinook16:03
aquatixbut my memory might be faulty ;)16:03
timelessRST38h: my understanding is that the browserd gets restarted between "Sessions"16:03
timelessso it doesn't actually retain all the memory you think it does16:04
RST38htimeless: well, it continues to linger after microb quits16:04
timelessyou can't count16:04
RST38htimeless: Actually, there are two copies. One (2MB footprint) is always present16:04
timelesspower your device off16:04
timelessthere should be 1 copy always present16:04
timelessand another copy which gets restarted between sessions16:05
timelesscheck the pid16:05
RST38hThe second one (11-18MB footprint) starts with microb and stays after I quit it16:05
timelessits pid should change between closing of the last window and some time t16:05
aquatixi don't have a browser window open, and have a 11MB browserd process16:05
RST38htimeless: The memory footprint numbers are from the load applet, they are not "potential" memory allocation16:05
timelessrst38h: please use htop in terminal16:05
RST38htimeless: See aquatix's comment16:05
aquatix(according to load applet's Processes list)16:05
timelessanything else is just stupid16:05
* aquatix tries top16:05
RST38htimeless: will do, as soon as I get home tonight16:05
timelessaquatix: yes, that's intentional16:05
timelessbut it's not supposed to remember everything you had from the last session16:06
timelessit's supposed to be a new browser daemon for the next time16:06
RST38hok, so the second browserd lingering is intentional?16:06
timelessso that the browser starts quikcly16:06
aquatixtop says 67364 virtual size16:06
RST38hall right. and the footprint may be reported wrongly?16:06
timelessrst38h: as long as the pid doesn't match the pid you had for your first instance16:06
timelessaquatix: 11mb seems right16:06
timelessvirtual size is garbage16:06
timelessit's all the .so files16:07
RST38htimeless: sure about it?16:07
timelessif you quote vs to me again, i'll never talk to you again16:07
timelessok? :)}16:07
admin_hey, is there any way on the n770 to make the kernel not boot in 'quiet' mode, so you can watch something like this during bootup,  ?16:07
aquatix53% mem top says16:07
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RST38hWhat is vs?16:07
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timelessaquatix: from top, what interests me is the pid16:07
RST38hoh virtual size16:07
timelessas long as it doesn't match the pid from your previous browsing session, it's working as designed16:07
aquatixppid is 132416:08
johnxadmin_, I have no idea about the 770, but there is a way to do it on the n80016:08
timelessstart browser, check pid, quit browser, wait, check pid16:08
timelessppid = parent pid = useless16:08
hrwadmin_: recompile kernel with other CMDLINE16:08
* aquatix tries with new browser window16:08
johnxadmin_, on the n8x0 at least you also need a kernel or module with fbcon support as the default kernel doesn't have it16:08
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aquatixnow 1324 (31.8% mem) and 7378 (74.6% mem); after closing it's 7536 (53% mem), so it opens a new process indeed16:10
aquatixstill, i think it's much memory16:10
admin_ok johnx16:10
aquatixand still not opening really fast16:10
admin_hrw: have you done that before?16:10
* aquatix is getting some coffee16:10
crashanddie_btw, anyone tried to interface with esd in the past ?16:10
johnxaquatix, if that is from top it is a *LIE*16:10
wazdAnyone going to Berlin in september?)16:12
macoutewhats there then?16:13
hrwadmin_: Poky kernels for 770 and n8x0 are not quiet16:13
macouteah ok16:13
hrwwazd: I will probably attend16:14
wazdI'm really thinking of)16:14
timelessaquatix: anyway, if it's opening a new processs, it's working as designed16:14
timelessand the only number that matters is htop's private16:14
timelessi don't care about any other measurement16:14
timelessclear? :)16:15
RST38haquatix: Could you run htop?16:15
admin_hrw: what's a Poky kernel16:15
* RST38h can't get to his tablet to test right now16:15
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johnxadmin_, a kernel from "Poky Linux"16:16
admin_is there something that can be done to /mnt/initfs/linuxrc?16:16
* johnx runs htop16:16
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johnxoh, well that's exciting. modest has stuck open with 93% CPU usage16:17
johnxno wonder my battery power went fast today :|16:17
admin_is anyone using poky kernel?16:17
timelessmight i suggest browser+gmail? :)16:17
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johnxtimeless, the problem is I really *like* modest16:18
timelessindeed, that clearly is a problem :)16:18
johnxwhat column should I look at in htop?16:19
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macoutejohnx: hmm, wonder if i have the same problem :/16:20
macoutetimeless: browser+gmail is kinda slow16:20
johnxpainfully slow16:20
macouteplus it doesnt support offline mails16:20
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macouteso its generally useless, though as a web ui it is brilliant16:20
johnxI guess there is a gmail notifier that I could use, and tell modest to stop checking via imap16:20
RST38hjohnx: I am actually getting 300+% from Modest after a while16:20
macouteso should i move to claws? :P16:21
timelessmacoute: which gmail?16:21
RST38hjohnx: Usually does it after crashing, so you do not really see it. In the morning, I can easily detect it - the tablet is WARM16:21
timelessmacoute: fwiw, there's probably a google gears for maemo somewhere16:21
timelessw/ that, offline mail should work :)16:21
johnx300% CPU time?16:21
RST38hjohnx: yep16:21
timelesswhich do you use?16:22
RST38htimeless: GMail is a definite answer but to me this situation has now taken a political turn, of a kind16:22
timeless(there's also an iphone ui, but i don't know the ui)16:22
timelessrst38h: i'm a browser dev16:22
RST38htimeless: I know, not complaining about you :)16:23
timelessi'm going to advocate for the browser in the presence of inferrior alternatives :)16:23
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johnxtimeless, :P16:23
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RST38htimeless: But it is shame on Nokia for not being able to provide a decent email client16:23
johnxanyways, what column should I look at in htop to get a sense for browserd's real memory usage?16:23
RST38hThey call it an *internet* tablet!16:23
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timelessrst38h: the internet in your hand comes from the web browser :)16:24
RST38htimeless <-- sneaky =)16:24
timelessthat's why i'm working on it :)16:24
johnxRST38h, at least it's open source for once. Maybe I'll try running it in strace16:24
timelessjohnx: strace isn't useful16:24
timelessand doesn't need things to be open source16:24
timelessvalgrind and friends take advantage of open source16:24
johnxthose were two different thoughts16:24
timelessok :).16:25
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timelessanyway, um... dunno, ask sp3000 which column to use :)16:25
johnxif I appear to have made two sentences that make sense's just a coincidence16:25
RST38hjohnx: I dont give a damn whether it is open source or not16:25
timelessi think my device will probably speak russian to me if i asked today16:25
RST38hjohnx: It has to work first. Being open source is optional.16:25
johnxwell if it's open source, theoretically someone can fix it if they care enough.16:26
RST38häÞ, timeless, ÍÀÚÃÞÐÅÊÝÌÍ16:26
timelessrst38h: i didn't say my irc client was utf8 aware16:26
timelessor that i spoke russian (neither of which are true)16:26
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dnearyGeneralAntilles: Hi there16:26
RST38htimeless: No, you just said that your device would speak Russian to you16:26
dnearytimeless: Thanks for your feedback16:26
admin_hey, I just 'installed' poky, but I turn the n770 on, and I just get the NOKIA blue letters on white, it doesn't seem to be going anywhere16:27
timelesscorrect, and it did, for about 2minns16:27
GeneralAntillesHey, dneary.16:27
timelessdneary: when do we see the results? :)16:27
mgedminthat doesn't look like utf-8 russian to me16:27
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dnearyGeneralAntilles: The wiki slowness thing...16:27
GeneralAntilles. . . makes me want to die.16:27
dnearyI think it might in part be because MediaWiki's installed on the same box as Midgard16:27
dnearyThey may be competing for resources16:27
timelessoh, i could look at that!16:27
RST38hIt's probably cp1251, I do not really know as it is the first time I type cyrillics in this terminal16:27
dnearytimeless: Hmmm16:27
* GeneralAntilles gives mediawiki a howitzer.16:27
dnearyTricky issue16:27
X-Fadedneary: I know for sure that that is the reason..16:27
admin_oh yay it booted16:28
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dnearyMaybe never, in the form you saw it16:28
GeneralAntillesWhat's the timeframe on those server upgrades? :(16:28
timelesstop - 16:28:11 up 91 days, 10:47,  2 users,  load average: 0.23, 0.31, 0.3216:28
timelessTasks: 101 total,   1 running, 100 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie16:28
timelessLinux maemo-midgard 2.6.16-xenU20060830 #1 SMP Wed Aug 30 11:35:40 EEST 2006 i686 GNU/Linux16:28
timelesseww, it's a vm?16:28
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: This month, hopefully.16:28
RST38h <--- yesssss, yessss, my preciousss16:28
timelessdoes xen expose information about total cpu usage, or only virtual?16:28
dnearytimeless: Apparently some people were uphappy with having a list published, Quim thinks that encouraging to update their profiles, and having some kind of marker in the karma list if someone is from Nokia is better16:29
X-Fadetimeless: I'm not sure what box you are on, but it is not the correct one ;)16:29
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RST38haquatix: Could you paste the whole htop line for browserd ?16:29
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timelessx-fade: :)16:29
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, so, like, uh today?16:29
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Ehm next month ;)16:29
timelessdneary: having been bitten w/in 1 day of someone marking me as nokia16:29
timelessand having already expressed my reservations to you about my name16:30
timelessi can't say i'm surprised16:30
X-Fadetimeless: The wiki is not running on that one.16:30
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dnearytimeless: So I'll be looking for feedback at the spring meeting this evening on how we should go about this task16:30
timelessx-fade: great16:30
timelesswhat are "lists" :)16:30
admin_johnx , hrw: just installed poky, there's no wifi?16:31
X-Fadetimeless: Mailinglists.16:31
sp3000yeah I noticed someone slipped me a company hat on bugzilla last week16:31
timelessand is midguard still here, if not, should the box get a new name?16:31
sp3000so much for trying to fly under the foot-in-mouth radar! :)16:31
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timelesssp3000: yeah, on saturday16:31
johnxadmin_, I guess not. I don't work with poky16:31
X-Fadetimeless: There is no midgard on that box in use.16:31
timelesssp3000: actually, technically, the hat was probably something i gave you16:31
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timelessbut someone showed our hats to the world (guenther)16:31
timelesssp3000: if you want your hat removed, i can remove it :)16:32
hrwadmin_: no one is allowed to distribute wifi modules16:32
hrwadmin_: no one == non-Nokia16:32
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timelesssp3000: help16:32
timelesshow does one get "private" memory usage from htop?16:32
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timelessheck, where's the fkey on my n810 keyboard? :)16:32
admin_that sucks16:33
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timelessand is there a bug filed that the up/down buttons in the xterm toolbar shortcut dialog don't highlight correctly when tapped? :)16:34
timelesseven the browser does a better job :o16:34
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hrwwazd: how goes omweather 0.21?16:37
* timeless pokes sp300016:37
dnearyThe worst thing is, I feel like I'm missing "important" discussions all the time16:38
X-Fadedneary: Which ones?16:38
dnearyThere's so much information, between ITT, mailing lists, wiki changes (we have >400 wiki edits per day at the moment), garage uploads, ...16:39
timelessdneary: treat itt and mailing lists as spam :)16:39
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johnxand yet sometimes interesting stuff shows up there16:39
* timeless is kinda surprised about the garage bit16:39
johnxreminds me of my old hotmail account16:39
dnearyI try to filliw ITT and wiki updates via a feed reader, but the RSS feed for ITT only includes new threads, not all comments (and still has about 80 new entries per day), and the RecentChanges feed has > 400 posts per day...16:40
RST38hdneary: It may be worth t create a customized Google search for Maemo stuff16:40
dnearyI manage to keep track of Garage16:40
GeneralAntillesRecent changes feed is pretty weak overall.16:40
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dnearyOh - then there's Planet Maemo, maemo news16:40
GeneralAntillesdneary, turn on the js for the RecentChanges page on the wiki and watch that.16:40
timelesshrm, did someone fix planet-maemo?16:40
timelessthe last time i tried, it crashed16:40
GeneralAntillesIt groups stuff together so it's a little easier to get an overview.16:41
RST38htimeless: shows ok now16:41
sp3000timeless: something about browserd?16:41
GeneralAntillesdneary, Recent changes tab -> "Enhanced recent changes (JavaScript).16:41
timelesssp3000: how to get "private bytes"16:41
RST38htimeless: but do notice that pages now take way too much time to load in microb16:41
RST38htimeless: same with, but I am not sure whether it was better on previous microb16:42
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timelessrst38h: try this16:42
timeless1. load
timeless2. click any bug link16:42
timeless3. load
RST38hwait let me copy&paste these instructions so that I can try them tonight16:42
timelessyou don't need a device16:43
timelessany cookie enabled browser will work16:43
timelessstep 2 is probably optional16:43
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RST38htimeless: looks more or less fine, except that left baloon borders do not show up entirely16:44
timelessrst38h: hrm16:44
timelessno fair16:44
RST38hShit wait16:44
RST38hIt opened in the evil IE6 browser16:44
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RST38hOk, it opened just fine in FF3, all borders intact16:45
timeless/proc/`pidof browser`/status is the raw details16:45
timelessrst38h: this is planet?16:45
timelessi'm getting:
RST38hXP machine16:45
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RST38hNot getting any problems. BUT there are two catches: 1) it is XP 2) it is going through a proxy in Santa Clara16:46
timelessi can reproduce this by sending the exact session listed in the bug report16:47
timelessoh wait16:47
timelessare you logged into bugzilla?16:47
X-Fadetimeless: I can't reproduce it either.16:48
RST38hlogging in16:48
timelessbecause i'm getting the same bug w/ a straight telnet connection16:49
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timelesshrm, is my php session id something someone can steal from me?16:50
RST38hLogged into both, went from bugzilla to planet, everything fine except that planet seems to have lost my login16:50
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RST38htrying again16:50
timelesshttps: != http:16:50
X-FadeRST38h: yes, but that is because you use http instead of https.16:50
timelessbut you might check cookies, it's possible you lost your cookie16:50
X-FadeYeah, what he said ;)16:50
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RST38hsays https16:51
RST38hlet me do it once again, cleanly16:51
timelessso um... if it says https and you lost your cookie then someone helpfully ate it16:51
timelesswhich of course is a related bug16:51
timelessanyway, it'd be nice if the bugzilla cookie was *not* sent to *.maemo.org16:51
RST38hEvery time I try to click login, it quietly moves me from http to https16:51
timelessi don't want to have my bugzilla cookies :)16:52
sp3000timeless: I don't see it in the available columns list16:52
RST38hdoes not ask to reenter credentials, just switches from http to https16:52
timelesssp3000: ...16:52
timelesssp3000: so um. which /proc/pid/status field is closest?16:52
GeneralAntilles2 days, is it, now without spam on the wiki? Wonder why they moved on. . . .16:52
RST38hthey will be back as soon as they are done with other wikis16:53
RST38hyou should patiently wait your turn in line16:53
* GeneralAntilles really wants a resolution on the issue one way or the other.16:53
RST38hmake people authenticate themselves and present them with a squiggle16:54
GeneralAntillesfanoush went and threw a wrench into the consensus. :<16:54
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timelessall spammers are busy, please wait, your need for spam will be addressed when the next spammer is available16:54
RST38hGA: Does fanoush want or does not want authentication?16:55
timelessi can't seem to log into mameo.org16:56
infobottimeless meant: i can't seem to log into maemo.org16:56
X-Fadeload average: 12.33, 10.25, 7.8616:56
GeneralAntillesRST38h, he wants to allow anonymous edits.16:56
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timelessok, using https works16:57
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GeneralAntillesWell, a few reasons. The gist of it is that barriers to entry to a wiki have a negative impact.16:58
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GeneralAntillesYou lose the, "I don't have an account, but I see a typo here and I'm going to fix it" drive-by-editors.16:58
GeneralAntillesWhich are fairly significant editors in a wiki ecosystem.16:59
sp3000timeless: like res-shr?16:59
RST38hGA: How about he takes responsibility for moderating anonymouses? =)16:59
timelesssp3000: sounds right16:59
timelessis that what i want?16:59
DarkenCZHi, I just tried to install maemo-sdk with scratchbox and gentoo. When I start, I get this reply: Starting Maemo Launcher: maemo-launcherstart-stop-daemon: Unable to start /usr/bin/maemo-launcher: Exec format error (Exec format error)16:59
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timelessgan: how about  we require everyone to use ff3 and the spellchecker16:59
GeneralAntillesRST38h, that was  my response to the guy who suggested queing up anonymous edits for moderation. :D17:00
timelessoh yeah, that'd work17:00
DarkenCZI guess it's something with that arm vs. i386 stuff :)17:00
GeneralAntillestimeless, or OS X. ;)17:00
hrwDarkenCZ: on x86 or other?17:00
timelessgan: fine w/ me17:00
Capn_Fishjohnx / Stskeeps: You guys here?17:00
DarkenCZhtw: x8617:00
johnxCapn_Fish, afraid so17:00
Capn_Fishfair enough17:00
StskeepsCapn_Fish: i am17:00
Capn_FishNice! Two for one!17:00
johnxCapn_Fish, how's it going?17:01
GeneralAntillesThe problem really is that we simply don't have the bots, or the manpower that wikipedia does.17:01
Capn_FishPretty well17:01
sp3000timeless: maybe17:01
Capn_FishThe Debian install script failed on chrooting, though :(17:01
GeneralAntillesand expecting a half-dozen people to keep up with the spam isn't very realistic.17:01
DarkenCZI used the scripts from maemo.org17:01
StskeepsCapn_Fish: could you pastebin the error?17:01
StskeepsCapn_Fish: i had an odd fail on ext3 myself17:01
RST38hGA: I do not see how you can have anonymouses and no spam at the same time17:01
Capn_FishUmmm.....I'd have to reproduce it17:02
Stskeepswas it post-debootstrap?17:02
RST38hGA: How about asking anonymouses to type contents of a squiggle?17:02
Capn_FishI believe so17:02
GeneralAntillesWell, implementing a CAPTCHA would be a good first step.17:02
GeneralAntillesThe OTHER problem that's specific to use is the fact that all edits over http show up as
Capn_FishStskeeps: The rootfs will start to boot from Fanoush's initfs, at least (no screen refresh, but no fail message)17:03
GeneralAntillesSo you can't actually ban individual spammers.17:03
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keesjif (os == linux) allow17:03
sp3000so what's the current problem? are we getting anon spam? (I suppose we will eventually anyway)17:03
StskeepsCapn_Fish: as in it brings up consolefb?17:03
Capn_FishNo :(17:03
Capn_Fishhang on17:03
GeneralAntillessp3000, quite a bit of it over the last two weeks.17:03
sp3000login or captcha seems like a reasonable iteration17:03
RST38hGA: The thing sounds more like a wiki bug17:04
Capn_FishStskeeps: My SD card has what looks like a fairly complete rootfs on it17:04
GeneralAntillesI've been banning (which as the effect of disallowing anonymous edits over http) for 24-hour periods until we figure out whether we want to allow or disallow anonymous editing.17:04
GeneralAntillesRST38h, it has to do with the http proxy.17:04
GeneralAntillesThey show up fine over https17:04
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StskeepsCapn_Fish: does /etc/init.d/usbnet-emergency-telnetd exist? (just trying to trace where it failed)17:04
RST38hGA: Oh17:04
Capn_Fishhang on17:05
GeneralAntillesThe point that dneary made (which I very much agree with), was that it's preferable to know who's making edits.17:05
Capn_FishStskeeps: Nope.17:05
Capn_FishShall I just run the install again and get the exact error?17:05
RST38hGA: No argument here17:06
GeneralAntillesEven registered users frequently edit anonymous if they forget to login (there's actually a mediawiki plugin to login-on-edit, but I can't seem to find it again).17:06
RST38hGA: Can http->https proxy setup be changed so that ip addresses DO pass through?17:06
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StskeepsCapn_Fish: does /nit-base-packages exist?17:06
Capn_FishShall I just run the install again and get the exact error?17:06
GeneralAntillesI mean, stuff like this ( is quite useful, but there are downsides.17:07
sp3000I guess it's reasonable for mediawiki to expect proxies to lie17:07
StskeepsCapn_Fish: lemme just give you a python script so you dont' have to debootstrap all over again17:07
Capn_FishThat would be nice :)17:07
GeneralAntillesRST38h, I'm sure something could be done about it.17:07
Capn_FishI already did it twice, and got the same error both times17:07
DarkenCZHi, I just tried to install maemo-sdk with scratchbox and gentoo. When I start, I get this reply: Starting Maemo Launcher: maemo-launcherstart-stop-daemon: Unable to start /usr/bin/maemo-launcher: Exec format error (Exec format error). How can I launch arm binary from scratchbox? It's x86 machine17:07
GeneralAntillesBut, personally, I'd rather see that fix-time invested elsewhere until we decide we actually want anonymous edits.17:07
Capn_FishDarkenCZ: QEMU17:08
Capn_FishDarkenCZ: QEMU is fun to emerge on Gentoo, as well, so be prepared17:08
DarkenCZCapn_Fish: So it's harder then emerge qemu? :)17:08
Capn_FishDarkenCZ: You need GCC-3.317:08
Capn_FishSo not much17:09
Capn_FishDarkenCZ: Hang on a sec17:09
* Stskeeps wonders if debian's armel sid is br0k right now17:09
Capn_FishI had an adventure with it without reading that page17:09
Capn_FishStskeeps: That doesn't sound good...17:10
Capn_FishStskeeps: It's running fine on my Zaurus, though17:10
Stskeepsgetting a -lot- of 404 errors on base packages, like, sysklogd, manpages, etc..17:10
Capn_FishWhat mirror are you using?17:10
DarkenCZOk, I am going to compile gcc3.4 and tell you how does it work. Thank you17:11
aquatixanyone knows where i can find iwlist, iwconfig and such for diablo/chinook? [wireless-tools basically]17:11
aquatixi can't seem to find it17:11
GeneralAntillesaquatix, gronmayer?17:11
Capn_FishDarkenCZ: Np. I have gcc 3.3.6 FWIW17:11
Capn_FishOnly for Qemu, of course17:11
aquatixGeneralAntilles: oh, now i find it there17:12
aquatixi guess i was a bit too sleepy last night17:12
GeneralAntillesWe're messing with your head.17:12
aquatix seems to have it17:12
DarkenCZSo, after I install scratchbox, it will work or are there more steps?17:13
Capn_FishStskeeps: It looks like only the "S" packages are missing17:13
Capn_FishDarkenCZ: First know that I have never actually DONE this17:13
Capn_FishYou need to set up QEMU to boot an ARM rootfs and kernel17:13
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Capn_Fishor maybe it just needs libs...17:14
Capn_FishI don't know for sure. There's a wiki page on scratchbox/qemu somewhere17:14
DarkenCZOk, thank you anyway :)17:14
Capn_FishNo problem. I like to be helped myself, so I help others17:15
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StskeepsCapn_Fish: svn up of trunk, cd installer, python postdebootstrap /target17:16
Capn_FishStskeeps: you're right, some packages are missing for armel (but all of the S packages are missing)17:16
Stskeepsdidn't have a chance to test it as my debian debootstrap just blew up :)17:16
Capn_FishMost unfortunate. Have you tried another mirror?17:17
Stskeepstrying now17:17
Capn_FishWhat's the SVN URL?17:17
Stskeepssvn checkout svn://
Capn_FishI just clicked the download link last time :)17:17
Stskeeps(we have a download link?)17:17
Capn_FishIt's convenient17:17
Stskeepsfrom viewvc?17:18
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Capn_FishOh yeah, THAT's where it failed before: making/installing the module package while chrooting17:20
Capn_FishIt's working now17:20
Stskeepshehe, so the blame may lay with me ;)17:21
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Capn_FishIt says mv: cannot rename 'linux-modules-whatever': directory not empty17:21
Capn_Fishand that the postinst script has bad permissions17:22
Capn_Fishof 64417:22
Stskeepscan you show me the screenshot on a pastebin?17:22
Capn_FishMaybe delete everything out of the directory?17:22
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Capn_FishYou mean copy and paste?17:22
Stskeepsyeah :P are you sshing into your tablet or using it directly?17:22
Capn_FishUsing it directly17:23
Capn_FishThis may be fun :)17:23
SDuensinMorning gang.17:23
Stskeepswell should work on a n800 :P so it would be possible to copy-paste from terminal17:23
Stskeeps(or n810)17:23
SDuensinI've been searching ITT and such for info on Einstein on the N800.  Anyone here have any success with it?17:24
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Capn_FishThat's manually typed, so it may be wrong17:25
Capn_FishSDuensin: Sorry, no experience here17:25
Capn_Fishat least none from me17:25
SDuensin:-/  Thanks.17:25
SDuensinI love my MessagePad 2100, but damn, it's big.17:26
Capn_FishSame with my Zaurus17:26
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GeneralAntillesSDuensin, no kidding.17:26
Capn_FishIt's near perfect, but a little chunky17:26
GeneralAntillesSDuensin, that's part of what makes it great, though. . . .17:26
GeneralAntillesBig enough to write on.17:26
Capn_FishStskeeps: Was that the right URL?17:26
SDuensinGeneralAntilles - I agree.  :-)17:27
SDuensinPeople at work keep asking me WTF I'm lugging around and if I got it from Soviet Russia.17:27
StskeepsCapn_Fish: nop17:27
Capn_FishTry that17:28
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GeneralAntillesIt _is_ a little bulky, though. :D17:28
Capn_FishThere we go :)17:28
Capn_FishThat's the right one17:28
Stskeepsmuch better17:28
sp3000SDuensin: if you got it from soviet russia, I think it would be lugging you around17:28
GeneralAntillesThe rubberisation also makes it awesomely impossible to get it in and out of stuff.17:28
StskeepsCapn_Fish: .. okay, that's a weird error17:28
Stskeepshow can a mv fail cos an directory is not empty?17:28
SDuensinIt's lugging my wallet around.  Ever since I became obsessed with Newton OS, eBay has been a very dangerous place.17:29
Capn_FishNo ida17:29
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Capn_FishSDuensin: lol, same here, except with Linux devices17:29
RST38hSee? Windows is good for you17:29
SDuensinCapn_Fish - I had that phase already.  :-D17:29
RST38hNo cravings.17:30
Capn_FishRST38h: True, but where's the fun in not having any toys?17:30
GeneralAntilleslol . . .
StskeepsCapn_Fish: anything odd in dmesg?17:30
StskeepsCapn_Fish: i'm inclined to blame jffs217:31
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Capn_FishI'm using ext217:31
Capn_FishI didn't see a module for jffs217:31
* Stskeeps glares at that error17:31
Capn_FishNothing wierd in dmesg.17:32
Stskeepstry cd installer, sh refresh-base /media/mmc117:32
Stskeepsand try again17:32
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Capn_FishIt seems to be working fine now17:34
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Capn_FishIt claims to be falling back on the 'C' locale though, that's normal?17:34
Capn_FishI need to put telenet in my initfs >:(17:35
johnxthe locale stuff is just a matter of 'dpkg-reconfigure -plow locales'17:35
Capn_Fishhang on. Back to the initfs-flashing :(17:36
StskeepsCapn_Fish: ah - i rely on bootmenu i believe17:36
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Stskeepsor fanoush's.. i'm not sure17:36
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Capn_FishProbably the same. I've never used Telnet before, so I didn't include it in the initfs17:37
Capn_FishBah, now I need to copy it back over...17:37
Stskeepsadding that to todo list.. not relying on utelnetd from initfs :P17:38
Capn_Fishgood plan17:38
Stskeepsyou'll need to refresh-base again before running postdebootstrap most likely17:38
Capn_FishI did that pre-emptively17:38
hrwthe good thing in diablo is that they use only 2.6M of initfs (which is 4M now)17:40
hrwso "mount /mnt/initfs -o remount,rw" and hack17:40
SDuensinI saw the Diablo stuff on Maemo.  Can you give me a single line version of just WTF it is and do I want it?17:40
Capn_FishWait a minute...The kernel has jffs2 built in!17:40
qwerty12It would have to :p17:40
Capn_FishSOrry, that just hit me17:41
hrwSDuensin: Diablo is update to Chinook. and you probably want it.17:41
* SDuensin is always confused. Diablo is a game. Chinook is a helicopter.17:41
RST38hYou are wrong17:42
RST38hDiablo is Satan, red, horned, with a pitchfork17:42
GeneralAntillesSDuensin, they're winds.17:42
GeneralAntillesCodenames like Apple's big cats.17:42
mgedminSDuensin: they're all also names of winds17:43
RST38hGA: Was poor aborted Elephanta also a wind?17:43
hrwFreemantle was chosen because Fart sounds not as good17:43
* johnx waits for Apple to run out of names, thus resorting to "sort of an overweight tabby"17:43
qwerty12If I ever make something, I shall make the codenames after legendary pimps.17:43
* SDuensin uses Stargate names. :-)17:43
hrwI do not use any sensible names17:43
pekujajohnx, I think "Snow Leopard" is pushing it17:44
johnxheh..."Liger" maybe :D17:44
pekujathey still don't have Puma, Lynx or Lion though17:44
RST38hLynx is a registered trademark of Atari17:44
RST38hSame is jaguar17:44
pekujait's not an OS trademark17:44
pekujahmn, I guess Puma and Lion are pretty well known names elsewhere too though17:45
RST38hall the same, if they decide to make a quick judicial buck...17:45
pekujamaybe they're avoiding those17:45
lbthow do I upgrade my sbox from 4.01 to 4.1? apt-get dist-upgrade?17:45
pekujait's not all the same17:45
SDuensinpekuja - "Puma" was used.17:45
pekujaespecially since Lynx died a long time ago17:45
pekujaSDuensin, well obviously17:45
pekujaSDuensin, oh, you mean for an OS?17:45
pekujaok, I didn't know that17:45
pekujawell then obviously they're not afraid of trademarks in other fields17:46
SDuensinCheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, Tiger, Leopard, Snow Leopard (gay)17:46
pupnik < lbt> how do I upgrade my sbox from 4.01 to 4.1? apt-get dist-upgrade?17:46
qwerty12I just took the long route and removed everything :/17:46
pekujabut yeah, it's missing Lynx and Lion17:46
lbtpupnik: Ideally I'd like to keep a chinook target...17:46
GeneralAntillesRST38h, they're all winds.17:46
pekujaor Cougar17:47
Capn_FishStskeeps: OK, I'm running the postdebbootstrap script (again)17:47
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SDuensinThey've trademarked "Lynx" and "Cougar".  :-)17:47
pekujaheh, I guess those are coming then17:47
pekujanow that I think of it, maybe Snow Leopard makes sense since they're not adding features17:47
lcukNokia n930 Cougar edition.  for when you are taking the kids to school17:47
RST38hGA: !17:47
RST38hGregale they have used prematurely17:48
* SDuensin wants them to go back to "1, 2, 3, 4, etc." MUCH easier to keep track of!17:48
GeneralAntillesRST38h, don't try to find logic in their application of these codenames.17:48
GeneralAntillesThere is none.17:48
pekujahah, fun fact: a snow leopard can't roar17:48
RST38hwell, so far it looks to be done in alphabetic order17:48
GeneralAntillesAny logic that they claim to apply is merely a redirection to keep you confused.17:48
GeneralAntillesMistral, Gregale, and Scirocco would seem to say otherwise. ;)17:49
lcukeverything needs a codename, even bare rocks on mars have them17:49
lcukit just helps us relate17:49
aquatixmeh, the wlan0 of my n810 doesn't support scanning, iwlist says :/17:50
johnxvery likely17:50
aquatixthat sucks17:50
johnxNokia's cx3110x is missing a lot of wireless extensions17:50
ShadowJKhm, iwlist scan worked for me17:50
Capn_Fishaquatix: I agree17:50
aquatixShadowJK: odd, here it didn't17:50
* aquatix has v29 from nitapps.com17:51
ShadowJKI'm going to try it again17:51
Capn_FishStskeeps: Debian is using v31, no?17:51
GeneralAntillesYeesh, I didn't even know this existed:
GeneralAntillesAny plans to move stuff like that into mediawiki-proper?17:51
ShadowJKyep, iwlist scan works for me17:52
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aquatixShadowJK: how?17:52
ShadowJKdunno, i just typed "iwlist scan" and it waited awhile then gave me results...17:52
aquatixi have radio on, no network connection17:52
Capn_FishShadowJK: What version of the cx3100x module are you using?17:52
aquatixCapn_Fish: how can i check?17:52
ShadowJKI'm connected to a wlan17:53
Capn_FishI forgot. I saw it somewhere while using Debian17:53
Capn_FishGive me a bit17:53
Capn_FishMaybe it's while insmodding or modprobing it17:53
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crashanddieRyback_, oy !17:57
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crashanddieRyback_, sorry to attack you like this, but just saw you were a e17 dev17:57
crashanddiesay, do you know if there's anything going on with esd these days ?17:57
Capn_FishStskeeps: It failed again17:57
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crashanddieSay, where I could find some up-to-date docs or anything ? (to the API, more exactly)17:58
Capn_FishStskeeps: Apparently dbus and hal had errors while installing17:58
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Capn_Fishaquatix: Yeah, scanning works for me too17:59
Capn_FishI'm using Diablo, are you?17:59
Capn_FishStskeeps: It's complaining about overwriting /var/run "which is also supplied by dhcp3-client"18:01
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crashanddielbt, hmm ?18:01
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lbtmaemo 4.1 Diablo API References18:01
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lbtor is that for esd - sorry :)18:02
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lbtI just happened to be on that page :)18:02
Andy80hi all18:02
qwerty12~lart the boost libraries for being a pos to install and use18:04
* infobot runs at the boost libraries with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut for being a pos to install and use18:04
hrwqwerty12: also POS to build18:07
Capn_FishStskeeps: You still here?18:07
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qwerty12hrw, someone's already built them for maemo, not sure if they work well from what I am seeing here :/18:07
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hrwqwerty12: building boost under scratchbox is weird way of crosscompiling rather18:08
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qwerty12I gave up trying to build boost under sbox, I don't have the time or the skills :/18:09
qwerty12Yep, these don't go well: ERROR: Source object /usr/lib/ has EABI version 5, but target has EABI version 418:10
qwerty12. May as well try again :/18:10
hrwI have to try with poky18:10
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GeneralAntillesOld but fun:
Capn_FishWhy would you want to do that?18:13
Capn_FishI'm spending enought time trying to get RID of hildon!18:13
johnxah yeah, the resolution independent hildon-desktop they were working on18:13
qwerty12I have my reservations with hildon on the tablet, f*** using it on the desktop.18:13
johnxCapn_Fish, some of us *like* hildon18:13
GeneralAntillesCapn_Fish, why would you want to do that?18:13
X-FadeCapn_Fish: I think it is better than everything else for a tablet sized device.18:14
Capn_FishWhy have candy-coated Linux when you can have pure Linux?18:14
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, well, the idea is to illustrate scalability. ;)18:14
Capn_FishEverybody's entitled to their own opinion, I suppose...18:14
GeneralAntillesCapn_Fish, because "pure" Linux sucks ass for finger input. ;)18:14
X-FadeCapn_Fish: I don't want to have full linux distro on my tablet or phone. I want a useable desktop.18:14
johnxCapn_Fish, cause I can *actually* freaking use it without a stylus, without messing up and hitting the wrong thing18:14
johnxCapn_Fish, you do realize my original goal of debian on the n8x0 was to have debian apps running in the hildon desktop, right?18:15
Capn_FishI don't care so much for "finger input," and I have the keyboard on the N810, so "real" Linux is more appealing to me18:15
timelesssp3000: is syncing :)18:15
qwerty12johnx, sounds like the chroot stuff now :/18:15
Capn_FishAnd I can compile and run whatever app I want without modification18:15
timelessthis may take a while :)18:15
johnxqwerty12, I'm a purist. :P18:16
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Is wiki speed better now?18:16
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johnxCapn_Fish, that was the other goal, but that's not a hildon problem, so much as a distribution problem18:16
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hrwCapn_Fish: I want more customisable hildon but still hildon18:17
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Capn_Fishhrw johnx: All I want is Fluxbox/EvilWM :)18:17
qwerty12I want more applets visible in the statusbar, that is my ultimate pisstake with hildon-desktop. I looked at the source but don't understand jack shit of it :/18:17
hrwqwerty12: I want os2007 like menus18:18
Capn_FishAnother reason to love other WMs18:18
qwerty12I did find the file responsible for the statusbar, I made a little change and nothing shows >.<18:18
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, a little, still getting the "lost network connection", though. :(18:18
qwerty12hrw, port some maemo-af-desktop code from bora :/18:18
hrwqwerty12: or rather hack hildon-desktop18:18
qwerty12That shouldn't be too hard, even maybe me could try :/18:19
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I haven't seen that. Can you past the error somewhere?18:19
hrwqwerty12: at least that is open18:19
johnxI'm not really in love with the whole hildon-desktop, but hildonized apps and matchbox wm overall seem reasonable to me18:19
hrwjohnx: I would like to have something usable for that desktop - now I keep it clean18:20
johnxhrw, I actually like matchbox desktop for the most part18:21
hrwjohnx: matchbox-desktop 1.x or 2.x?18:22
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: But that error is not generated by the wiki right? It is just your browser telling you that?18:22
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johnxhrw, whatever was on angstrom 2007.1218:22
hrwjohnx: old 1.x one18:22
hrwjohnx: I do not like it18:22
* johnx googles for the new one18:22
hrwjohnx: 2.x (used in Poky) is better18:22
GeneralAntillesOver http it's an actual server error18:22
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Ok I thought that you were mentioning another problem ;)18:22
StskeepsCapn_Fish: yes, sorry, was making pizza :P18:22
timelessanyway, for people interested in seeing what files will be available (warning, this may kill your browser), you're free to load
Capn_FishPizza's worth it18:22
GeneralAntillessomething along the lines of "lost connection with" or or similar.18:22
Capn_FishStskeeps: Anyway, it failed on installing dbus and hal18:23
johnxhrw, ah, actually I tried poky, but I didn't like the desktop as much. there's no need for icons to be bigger than my thumbs18:23
StskeepsCapn_Fish: hmm. pastebin again?18:23
StskeepsCapn_Fish: this is debian sid though so things may break:)18:23
hrwjohnx: thats the matter of configuring probably18:23
Capn_FishThings work on my Z18:23
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johnxCapn_Fish, did you do the debian install on your Z today?18:24
Capn_FishPoint taken18:25
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johnxI've been following debian sid for a long time. There are many interesting ways for things to break :)18:25
Capn_FishThere always are18:25
StskeepsCapn_Fish: wtf @ that error though18:26
Capn_FishThe overwriting thing?18:27
Stskeeps.. and again, why does dhcp3-client provide var/run? :>18:27
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Capn_FishNo idea18:27
johnxyeah, that doesn't sound right :)18:27
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DarkenCZHi, i installed qemu and I get new error in launching af-sb-init: Starting Maemo Launcher: maemo-launcherFontconfig error: Cannot load default config file18:27
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aquatixCapn_Fish: yeah, diablo18:28
* aquatix was afk18:28
aquatixand again, going home18:28
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Capn_FishWell, it works for me18:29
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qwerty12Arggh, boost wants g++4.0, off I go to get cs2008 toolchain for sb1 >.<18:30
timelesssp3000: that web url is killing my browser18:30
StskeepsCapn_Fish: i'll just see if my debootstrap fails - i guess it's in post bootstrap this messes up+18:30
lcukkeesj, :) thanks for the vmware appliance, ill grab it later and hopefully replace the one ive got here.18:30
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Capn_FishI can wait :)18:31
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* timeless sighs, xref is 650mb of which rsync has sent 150mb. this will take a while :)18:32
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StskeepsCapn_Fish: try apt-get update; and try again?18:32
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Capn_Fishhang om18:33
Stskeeps(maybe apt-get upgrade too if dhcp3-client has a problem)18:34
Capn_Fishwill do18:35
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Capn_FishStskeeps: apt-get upgrade says there are broken deps, do an apt-get -f install, which gives the original error while trying to install gnome-device-manager, hal, and dbus18:38
Stskeepsbrb, dinner18:38
Stskeepsif apt-get install hal gives a problem relating to dhcp3-client it sounds like a debian issue or something :P18:39
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Capn_Fishlooking in the package file list here:
Capn_Fishit says that /var/run is NOT used by dhcp3-client18:43
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johnxhmm, /var/run shouldn't be supplied by any package unless maybe lsb-base or similar18:44
Capn_Fishso we've got at least two packages providing a file that shouldn't be provided by either of them18:45
johnxwell, maybe I'm confused, but I really think /var/run is the kind of thing that should be there even without a dhcp client or hal18:46
Capn_FishAh... /var/run is a symlink to /tmp/.run18:46
Capn_FishI just removed it, we'll see how this ends18:46
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DarkenCZBTW does anybody know howto install gnupg to n810?18:47
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Capn_FishDarkenCZ: Maybe you want to try Debian?18:47
qwerty12DarkenCZ, ?18:47
Capn_Fishonce we figure out how to get the install working, that is?18:47
DarkenCZCapn_Fish: I don't! but I afraid i will have :(((18:47
johnxDarkenCZ, the package gnupg is installed by default, right?18:47
DarkenCZjohnx: I don't think so18:48
qwerty12johnx, that's osso-gnupg iirc and according to that page, it's bascially handicapped18:48
johnxrun apt-cache policy gnupg18:48
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DarkenCZ  Installed: 1.4.6-2maemo118:49
DarkenCZ  Candidate: 1.4.6-2maemo118:49
DarkenCZ  Version table:18:49
DarkenCZ *** 1.4.6-2maemo1 018:49
DarkenCZ        500 ./ Packages18:49
DarkenCZ        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status18:49
DarkenCZNow I am confused :)18:49
GeneralAntillesThe problem with maemo-users is that there aren't enough intelligent people replying to offset the overwhelming stupidity. . . .18:49
johnxGeneralAntilles, hey now...18:49
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DarkenCZshame on me18:50
johnxDarkenCZ, don't worry about it. Why did you think you didn't have it?18:50
Capn_FishWho here wanted Einstein?18:50
qwerty12Are there any recommended options when using diff to make a patch file?18:50
GeneralAntillesjohnx, have you SEEN the threads that go on on -users?! :P18:51
johnxqwerty12, diff -urN maybe?18:51
DarkenCZjohnx: Becouse i was trying to find package in every repository and I found only some old ones for os200718:51
johnxGeneralAntilles, aaaah...I missed the '-'18:51
Capn_FishSDuensin: Still here?18:51
qwerty12johnx, ta18:51
DarkenCZI need to establish mail client with pgp support... and in best case, jabber with pgp support :)18:51
Capn_FishStill looking for einstein?18:51
GeneralAntillesAlso, the wikipedia Hildon article now has less suck:
SDuensinWill that run on an 800?18:52
Capn_FishNo idea if it will work, though18:52
Capn_FishBut you can try :)18:52
SDuensinI will.  :-)18:52
* SDuensin needs to get his 2100 ROM yanked.18:52
Capn_FishEnjoy (hopefully)18:52
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DarkenCZDoes somebody have mail client which support pgp?18:55
Capn_FishMaybe Claws Mail?18:55
DarkenCZThere should exist gnupg plugin for claws mail, but I didn't find it avaiable for maemo18:55
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qwerty12Ok, a little far fetched but instead of doing it by hand, is there a program that can "scan" patch files and remove any lines that conflict with each other/are the same?18:58
DarkenCZMaybe I can install Debian or Ubuntu to virtual computer and try to play with scratchbox there?18:58
GAN800Find yourself a bitch.18:58
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crashanddieGAN800, I'd love to, but you're not coming to MaemoCon, so phat chance of meeting you :P19:00
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qwerty12ooh, bitchslapped19:01
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qwerty12ooh netsplit19:01
crashanddieclarke got bitchslapped, too19:01
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qwerty12Anyone know what happened to skyhusker's svn?19:02
GAN800Is it just me, or did a bunch of packages just get icons in Application manager?19:02
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crashanddienotice how he changes subject :P19:03
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qwerty12Tis the way of the bitch :p19:03
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crashanddiehow to f up a conversation19:05
crashanddieluckily, we didn't have much of one19:05
qwerty12I blame you.19:05
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GeneralAntillesMaemoCon sounds like an anime convention.19:05
crashanddieI will never admit anything19:05
hrwit there libossosettings?19:06
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, I'm thinking it might end up finishing like one19:06
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, thousands of geeks coming together, only 2 getting laid19:06
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Mouseyi'd like to get 14 days on idle.. hell, i'd like to get the battery to survive idling overnight!19:09
mgedminMousey: mine does19:09
* qwerty12 finally believes in british film industry after watching adulthood again19:09
mgedminwhat sort of apps have you got installed?19:09
* Mousey cries19:09
mgedminI'm not pointing any fingers, or anything, but...19:10
mgedminI'd suggest uninstalling it and seeing if the battery life improves or not19:10
GeneralAntillesMousey, something's broken if you don't get at least 2 days idle on wifi.19:10
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GeneralAntillesThere's a couple bugs that cover most of the suspects and there's a thread on -users or -developers19:10
mgedminapps that wake up the CPU several times a second are usually to blame19:11
Mouseywell i'm on diablo now19:11
GeneralAntillesMake sure neither of your cards are corrupted and make sure you don't have anything eating cpu in the background.19:11
lcukmousey : totally with you here, my 810 is dead as a dodo and i think something kept hold last night because normally without wifi i can last19:11
lcukthough my wifi drains it quicker than a thirsty australian in a pub19:11
qwerty12See if modest and browser aren't sucking cpu like a bitch in diablo.19:11
Mouseyyah, if i [remember to] put it in offline it lasts a bit longer19:11
GeneralAntilleslol, lcuk, just get a real router already. <_<19:11
* Mousey doesn't use modest, no client side filters19:11
lcukno GeneralAntilles :) im happy, and now in the last coiuple of months its only been dead twice19:12
lcuk(at least since i got back from linuxtag)19:12
qwerty12Mousey, Doesn't matter. When I was using diablo betas, I had no email account configured whatsoever but modest would like run as daemon still. Turn off updating in it's settings.19:12
* Mousey uninstalls it19:12
lcukmousey, best thing for none wifi batterylife: turn down the screen brightness as far as you are comfortable with19:12
lcukits no use it glowing like the sun when its tucked in its pouch ;019:13
Mouseyi always do that19:13
mgedminlocking the keyboard should prevent it from glowing...19:13
DarkenCZit's ubuntu good distro to play with scratchbox?19:13
lcuki have mine 2 notches from top all the time, and ive customised acmonitor to knock down my cpu to ondemand when i disco0pnnect from power19:13
Mouseyi do that too19:13
lcukmgedmin, it does normally, but locking doesnt always turn the screen off19:14
lcukwatch a movie and try it...19:14
mgedminoh? it usually does for me19:14
DaniloCesarDarkenCZ, Mandriva/Ubuntu/Fedora/Debian are good distros.... Distro doesn't matter.... =)19:14
Mouseywow, why does apt-get remove modest wanna remove half my install?19:14
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qwerty12Maybe because it's part of the os now?19:14
mgedminI usually don't let my pockets watch any movies :)19:14
DarkenCZWell, I have gentoo, but I want something what use apt-get :)19:14
lcukmgedmin, :) i have been able to draw on the screen with liqbase with it locked in the past19:14
lcuklol mgedmin depends what kinds of movies19:14
* Mousey tries apt-get acrobatics to trick it19:15
mgedminMousey: what if you just go to email preferences and disable periodic checking?19:15
Capn_FishDarkenCZ: Networking from a VM can be odd, FWIW19:15
lcukmousey: sudo apt-get acrobatics19:15
qwerty12<qwerty12> Turn off updating in it's settings.19:15
DaniloCesarDarkenCZ, I use debian virtual machine to play with SB...19:15
* mgedmin hands DarkenCZ a Ubuntu CD19:15
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Mouseylibosso-email-interface is the culprit19:15
Mouseyapparently it has a dependency on modest19:16
* lcuk hasnt even setup email on his tablet19:16
Mouseyi haven't either19:16
Capn_FishMe neither19:16
mgedminDarkenCZ: for best results use a 32-bit version of Ubuntu and know to do 'sudo sysctl -w vm.vdso_enabled=0 vm.mmap_min_addr=4096' before you try to log into scratchbox19:16
mgedminotherwise it works fine19:16
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lcukis this a diablo thing then?19:16
qwerty12Good old is fine for me.19:16
* Mousey checks in email prefs for periodic checking19:16
Capn_FishI personally use
Mouseylcuk: nah, i've never really had good battery life19:16
mgedminlcuk: yes, diablo switched to Modest instead of the old crappy email client19:16
Mouseyi personally use mail.ross154.net19:16
Mouseyit's mine, no corporation owns my email19:16
DarkenCZmgedmin: thank you, thats what I want to here :)19:16
lcukmousey, what kind of wifi basestation have you got, cos i use adhoc wifi dongle on desktop pc, GeneralAntilles swears it drains battery and i believe him (for once :P )19:17
lcukand whats the battery life like in offline mode19:17
GAN800AdHoc doesn't support powersaving.19:17
qwerty12shitfuck, I'm now going to have to compare by hand, a 5.1MB patch against a 4.1MB patch. Someone pull the trigger :(19:18
lcukno, cos its trying to be a server all  the time19:18
lcukthats why i use it when im  plugged in19:18
GAN800Mousey, make sure your cards aren't corrupt.19:18
lcukqwerty12, you just lost extra merit marks, "shitfuck" is not correct, you should capitalize and punctuate your swearing "Shit, Fuck!"19:19
qwerty12How about no?19:19
GAN800lcuk, fail19:19
GAN800shitfuck is much more creative.19:19
lcukbut it wont get you any marks in your English exam19:20
mgedminqwerty12: interdiff?19:20
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qwerty12mgedmin, thank you. Looks like this could help :)19:21
GAN800Wow, carrier-specific Maemo releases? O_o
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qwerty12Meh, I've had N800-666-qwerty12 pimp :P19:22
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johnxGAN800, that is really crazy O_o19:24
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johnxI guess it's just some creative repackaging by Singtel's resident Linux guru...probably a custom desktop and home page19:25
qwerty12I know a way to change the version, just need to see if the version returned by mplayer says singtel too :/19:25
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mgedminI wonder what sudo osso-product-info would print on that Singtel image19:26
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lbtAnyone got any idea how to install non-maemo debian/ubuntu packages into a diablo sbox? (specifically ddd)19:37
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qwerty12It's probably just easier to download the source and diif from the same page in the left and compile that.19:38
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qwerty12Failing that, repack the armel deb with dependencies removed and hope for the best.19:38
lbtqwerty12: did that - ddd depends on Motif...19:39
lbtdidn't want to go there..19:39
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lbtI added deb testing main to sources.list but get keyring issues19:40
lbtwas wondering if I could add an ubunut repository19:40
lbtsince I'm running the x86 target (which works fine for me)19:41
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* qwerty12 gets my fedora hat on19:44
qwerty12Will a pimp do?19:44
qwerty12Guess not, playa hater :(19:45
StskeepsCapn_Fish: hald installed for me19:46
aquatixodd, if i connect to a wifi network, iwlist scan works19:47
aquatixbut i want it without connecting :)19:47
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RST38h...whatever Steve Jobs does is right. And so, since the iPhone currently has no keyboard on it, it must logically follow that it is wrong to have a keyboard, and therefore that Steve Jobs will never produce a version that does have a keyboard.19:51
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mgedminum, apple laptops have keyboards!19:52
mgedmintherefore it logically follows that sometimes it is okay to have a keyboard19:53
mgedminaquatix: on my laptop iwlist scan returns results from the last scan (if any), while sudo iwlist scan also tells the wifi driver to perform the scan right now19:53
mgedmin... I think19:53
RST38hmgedmin: in a laptop19:54
GAN800I love how the iPhone's keyboard lags when the device is under load.19:54
RST38hwhich leads us to conclusion that whenever iPhone gets a keyboard, it will be renamed into a laptop19:54
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RST38hGAN: N8x0 is no exception to this19:54
RST38hBT keyboard lag terribly19:54
mgedminwhy aren't macbooks called iLaptop19:54
infobotRST38h meant: BT keyboards lag terribly19:55
GAN800That's consistent.19:55
GAN800Not load-dependent.19:55
RST38hmgedmin: 'cause iBook sounds more important19:55
Avemac portables arent called laptops, because they arent laptops...19:55
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GAN800mgedmin, that went out with PowerPC.19:55
RST38hGAN: I have traced it down to the amount of stuff being redrawn19:55
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Avesomeone in the land of hope and glory burns his nads on a scolding apple and thusly its no more laptop, avoid the lap19:55
Aveits a portable computer dammit19:55
RST38hMay be wrong of course, but it definitely feels like the more GTK widgets you have on the screen the more it lags19:56
RST38h[correction: not the number of widgets drawn but the totan number of widgets, seemingly]19:56
ShadowJKaquatix, maybe if you ifconfig wlan0 up first?19:56
Aveanyone noticed a faster battery drain with diablo than chinook?19:56
qwerty12RST38h, Tried renicing hcid or similar? (I say this, not ever having used a bt keyboard)19:56
RST38hqwerty: I did not19:57
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RST38hqwerty: If you have a recipe of how to do it, shoot =)19:57
GAN800Ave, incidental.19:57
RST38hAve: It is most likely Modest19:57
qwerty12renice -20 `pidof hcid` (as root) ? :/19:58
RST38hAve: It has a habit of hanging up in memory eating 100% CPU19:58
qwerty12-20 is highest priority iirc19:58
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RST38hlet's try...19:58
qwerty12renice 0 `pidof hcid` may be a nicer value to use20:00
Mouseyyikes, renice20:00
AveRST38h: aah the new email client you mean20:03
Aveincidentally I just took the time to configure it and bang there goes my battery, so could be20:04
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RST38hAve: disable automatic email fetch20:05
* Mousey turns off the email update interval20:05
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RST38hqwerty: -20 freezes touch ui20:06
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RST38hqwerty: 0 seems to improve things a bit20:06
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AveRST38h: does that also disable the new mail notifi ations20:06
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qwerty12RST38h, Cool, try going down in -20 and see which value works well20:07
GeneralAntillesAve, take a guess. :P20:07
RST38h-5 feels better20:07
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AveGeneralAntilles: thats the only funxtion I use the intgernal mail client for ...20:09
Atariipenguinb8 u there?20:09
RST38hstill lags20:10
RST38h-10 feels better20:10
melmothIs dputing stuff on chinook-extras-devel currenlty borked ?20:10
RST38hui works20:10
RST38hno it still lags20:11
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RST38hI do not think it has anything to do with bt keyboard.20:11
RST38hLooks like it is related to gtk event loop20:12
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lcukRST38h, how many devices have you got connected to bt?20:17
aquatixShadowJK: yeah, thought about that :)20:17
lcukand what app are you testing it in, because i notice repeaaaaaaaating letters when the cpu is busy20:17
lcukbut actual lag is minimal20:18
RST38hI had to reboot. Modest went nuts again, even although I explicitely disabled mail fetch20:18
* mgedmin also used to see repeaaaaaaaaaaaating letters on BT keyboards20:18
mgedminwhen the CPU was quite idle20:18
RST38hlcuk: xterm and xchat20:18
lcukis it laggy if you reboot and go directly to the notes thingy20:18
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lcukno other apps, complete baseline20:18
mgedminor at least I hadn't noticed CPU busyness20:18
RST38hnotes lags20:19
RST38hno other apps20:19
lcukmgedmin, it appears to be timing related, the cpu might show 0% or not doing anything, but there is a stutter like a heartbeat about 3 times a second20:19
StskeepsCapn_Fish: did you manage to solve it?20:19
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Atariiquick question: when cloning to external card, what is the FAT partition used for?20:19
lcukRST38h, what extra applets have you got installed?20:19
crashanddie20/20 written english exam, 20/20 oral english exam20:19
StskeepsAtarii: to make sure maemo doesn't bitch at unreadable SD20:19
lcukthats good crashanddie, shame it was a french exam20:20
Atariioh ok thanks20:20
RST38hsearch,rss (no scroll),omweather,clock,radio20:20
crashanddieI guess it kinda invalidates the grade20:20
lcuktry turning off and seeing, it might be a specific one20:20
* lcuk has clock as only addin20:20
* lcuk personally thinks the clock refreshes every 1/3 second (otherwise you can get in a situation where it displays wrong)20:21
lcukback after t20:23
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RST38hModest menu no longer shows up20:24
RST38hIt appears and immediately disappears. I guess @%$%^#$ program is pissed at my turning automatic mail fetch off20:25
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Naviyou hurt it's feelings20:26
crashanddieits feelings20:26
RST38hit is now bodily harm turn...20:26
qwerty12POW POW20:26
qwerty12(That song is an LDN classic)20:26
GeneralAntillesKate's blog post broke the front page.20:27
NaviRST38h, new iNES coming out any time soon?20:27
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, women20:27
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qwerty12Can't live w/out them, can't live with them.20:28
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crashanddieqwerty12, we're not living with 'em, she stills fucks up our front page20:28
qwerty12In that case, iit's time for armshouse20:29
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Hm yeah, that is in need of a fix :)20:30
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RST38hNavi: MasterGear first20:31
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RST38hOk, here is a story20:33
Mouseyonce upon a time20:33
RST38hIt looks like connecting bt keyboard breaks modest20:33
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RST38hAfter I connect, then disconnect keyboard, Modest stops showing its menu20:33
qwerty12oh shit, when's da sequal, this book is too shit20:33
qwerty12I'm so used to swearing :(20:34
qwerty12I type the cursed words w/out even realising :/20:34
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qwerty12Hmm, what is scratchbox's arm-eabi-gcc equivalent?20:39
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aquatixqwerty12: what are you reading?20:42
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tlaxwould anybody happen to know what installs /etc/init.d/scratchbox-core.dpkg-new file?20:44
tlaxas in.. where to file bugreports?20:44
tlaxI used the maemo-installers to install20:44
lcukI saw the kid that kate has a picture of at ltag, he was floating around the entire time.  reminded me of the IBM linux adverts20:46
MishaStlax, .dpkg-new files are intermediate files by dpkg during installation :)20:46
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t_s_owell that figures why i was able to blow my whole calendar syncing gpe. gpe had higher priority on "correctness" then my computer :S21:05
Cptnodegardi try again today since i got no reply last night... wil lfuture upgrades of apps and such be diablo only or chinopok too?21:06
GAN800they're compatible.21:07
Cptnodegardthank god21:07
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Cptnodegardmy osso backup doesnt work so i dont want to upgrade21:07
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t_s_ohmm, anyone else having trouble getting passwordless logins working with openssh after diablo?21:09
GAN800Try lussh?21:10
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jsmitht_s_o: No, it's working fine for me21:10
GAN800It's a nice little script to set up keys for you.21:10
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t_s_oGAN800: meh, dont like scripts for this stuff. they usually have some assumptions or other of what state things are in before they start21:11
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t_s_obah, i copy the .pub as tolk but i still get the password prompt when trying to log in...21:16
mgedmint_s_o: where do you copy it?21:16
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mgedmineverything works for me just great21:16
mgedminpasswordless ssh-key logins everywhere21:16
t_s_o.ssh/authorized_keys2 on the tablet21:16
GAN800You set up the key correctly?21:17
mgedminfwiw you can ditch the 2, just .ssh/authorized_keys is fine21:17
mgedminusually the problem is directory permissions21:17
mgedmintry chmod 600 ~/.ssh21:17
mgedminand if that doesn't help, chmod g-w ~21:17
t_s_oare you sure its supposed to be 600?21:19
t_s_oheh, was  the access rights on the .ssh dir indeed. when all but user was stripped of rights, it works :)21:20
t_s_oits allways the smallest things...21:20
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mgedmint_s_o: no, it's 700 actually, sorry21:25
mgedminu=rwx, others = nothing21:25
t_s_othat i discovered ;)21:25
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Capn_FishStskeeps: Back yet?21:27
JamieBennettwhere is python installed installed in scratchbox? I have /usr/bin/python linked to /usr/bin/python2.5 but python reports version 2.3?21:31
Capn_Fishtry "which python"21:32
JamieBennettI knew there was a command for it but the name escaped me, thanks21:32
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JamieBennettFor those that want to know its in /scratchbox/tools/bin/python21:33
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Capn_FishNo problem21:34
crashanddie_say, why doesn't the youtube plugin for canola work... anyone had a similar experience (diablo. just black screen)21:35
mgedminsilly question: any console app that can tell me whether my gps got a fix already?21:36
JaffaEv'ning, all21:37
crashanddie_not that I know of21:37
JamieBennetthey jaffa21:37
GAN800crashanddie, mplayer oddness maybe?21:37
GAN800Hey, Jaffa.21:37
crashanddie_hmm, could be21:38
mgedmintelnet localhost gpsd?21:38
mgedminum where can I get telnet for diablo?21:38
mgedminor netcat?21:38
GAN800gronmayer? . . .21:39
Jaffamgedmin: 'ang on, there's a netcat package in mud21:39
lcukwhat an amazing game :D
Jaffatsk :)21:39
* mgedmin once got his car stuck in mud while following maemo mapper's route directions21:39
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Jaffamgedmin: I would upload it, but is doing that "lost connection" thing again21:42
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JamieBennettWhy is it that when I install python2.5 inside of scratchbox, running 'python' still results in it using the 2.3 version? Does python 2.3 need to be removed?21:43
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Capn_FishYou could just run python2.521:44
JamieBennettbut I want to package an app up21:44
Capn_FishYou could just run python2.521:44
Capn_FishSOrry about that21:45
Capn_FishJust link python2.5 to python21:45
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Capn_FishStskeeps: No?21:45
lmouraJamieBennett, scratchbox uses python for internal commands21:45
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lmourain the device you can use python21:45
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JamieBennettImoura: Ah that makes sence21:46
JamieBennettIs there an easy way to gain root under scratchbox?21:47
mgedminuse fakeroot21:47
mgedminusually it suffices21:47
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sp3000"such as the maemo VMware appliance version 0.7 or newer."21:50
sp3000I only see 0.6 available.21:50
sp3000what's up with that?21:50
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Capn_FishStskeeps: If you get this, X11 gets NO input (touchscreen or kb, running as new user, either startx or xinit), and I'm off.21:54
Capn_FishStskeeps: Oh, and the I gave you is TOTALLY broken. I already updated the Wiki21:55
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mpeterso1Hi, can anyone help me with e2fsprogs installation? I can't seem to find the right repository for it21:59
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DarkenCZHi, I am sorry for annoying you again, but can I ask who is defender and what parents does he like? :) I have this error when start meamo-launcher defender: died my parent is not who he claims to be22:01
DarkenCZmaemo-launcher: error rising the oom shield for pid=15818 status=281622:01
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Mouseyoverall i must admit, i'm pleased with the devil22:05
Mouseyuh, i mean with diablo22:05
JamieBennettI'm not with the diablo SDK :(22:06
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DarkenCZJamieBennett: I can't compare, it's first SDK I am trying to install22:09
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mgedminDarkenCZ: how did you get that error?22:13
DarkenCZI am tried to start maemo-launcher22:13
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mgedminwhatever for?22:13
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ustunozgur_homethere are parent and child processes.22:14
ustunozgur_homemaybe it's related.22:14
mgedminand when parent processes love each other very much, ...22:14
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DarkenCZWell, when I started then I saw that maemo-launcher failed22:15
ustunozgur_homethey use dbus22:15
pupnik  l... m.... f..... a...... o........22:15
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DarkenCZso I tryed to execute /usr/bin/maemo-launcher22:17
DarkenCZand get this error22:17
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mgedminDarkenCZ: did you do that in the x86 or in the armel target22:21
DarkenCZarmel target22:21
mgedminthat won't work22:22
DarkenCZI am sorry, maybe I miss something important with these targets22:22
mgedminqemu is not complete enough to get the gui running22:22
mgedminI believe the maemo tutorial mentions that22:22 is only supposed to work in x86 targets22:22
DarkenCZWhich tutorial do you mean? I saw many various tutorial today :)22:22
mgedminwhich is a bit of a bother22:22
mgedminsince I don't have any ;)22:22
mgedmin4 targets are quite sufficient thank you (mistral bora chinook diablo)22:23
mgedminI don't want 822:23
mgedminthe Maemo Tutorial on maemo.org22:23
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DarkenCZAll I want to do is to establish sdk and be able to compile and make my own packages... I killed whole day trying to set up scratchbox22:24
DarkenCZI used scratchbox and maemo scripts I found on, but I don't have all software which is present on n81022:28
lcukDarkenCZ, there are a couple of prebuilt vmware images floating around at the moment which you could have a look at and see whats different to yours. hell you could just use them and compile happily for a while without all this.  ive just downloaded a 4.1 image uploaded by keesj
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DarkenCZlcuk: Thank you very much, I will try it22:30
wazdIs there any way to enlarge standard hildon tabs in height?)22:31
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Atariipupnik thats awesome22:33
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lcukwazd - isnt the style of the widget specified by the theme?22:33
lcukie sizes22:33
pupnikstill laughing at it Atarii :)22:33
Atariiits loading like a mule here so only about half way through :(22:34
pupniki let it load then copied it out of /tmp to play with mplayer22:35
wazdlcuk, I actually don't know cause I'm not very fammiliar with Maemo UI developing tools :(22:36
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Capn_FishStskeeps: Here now?22:37
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lcukpupnik, :D the web guy is class22:41
pupnik"here's the thing:  this... is a problem.  you can't have people looking at this."22:41
lcukthe companies website was at the top of the penis22:44
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Atariilol at his password "um its just the letter a"22:48
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pupnikDid you take down the website? "No" Nancy says you did. "Oh, um... Yeah"23:04
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pupnikman that brings back memories23:05
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GeneralAntillesAh hooker23:11
GeneralAntillesspammers are back23:11
wazdpupnik, that was really hillarious :)23:15
wazd"i have no arrange by penis option" xD23:15
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lcukthe proper vmware appliance ( has not been updated for diablo yet, is it still ok to use for developing23:53
Atariidoesnt diablo software ~= chinook software?23:54
GeneralAntillesPretty much, but that may be slightly more complicated development-side.23:55
Atariialso question: when creating a swap partition on external card, do i still need to check "enable virtual memory" in control panel?23:55
lcukGeneralAntilles, shouldnt be complicated at all initially should it? its tied to chinook repos23:55
qwerty12_N800Atarii, not as much. look at the list of changes and you will see quite a few version numbers are higher than chinook23:55
Atariioh ok23:56
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lcukwell then, ill ask - is there a full graphical vmware appliance for diablo?23:56
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Atariilcuk was it you that suggested that was ipv6 and hence troubles with my dns23:59
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