IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2008-06-29

mysc272 people and no one can help?00:00
wazdwell, I can't in fact, sorry :( I'm the worst technican in whole maemo community :)00:01
wazdDo you have Diablo or 2008?00:03
mysccan you see if your dmesg has multiple voltage setting lines?00:03
rm_youmysc: mine always has00:04
rm_youmysc: i think they all do... I'm not aware that it matters00:05
rm_youit's just one of those things that it does00:05
myscok, cause i recently dropped it and wanted to know if i screwed up some voltage regulator00:05
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GAN800Jaffa, the cite plugin isn't installed. I filled a bug, but I think it may have been lost in the chatter.00:08
JaffaGAN800: ah, right00:08
GAN800mediawiki appears to be plugin hell. :D00:08
JaffaI've seen lots of software like this: it can do so much, it can't do anything.00:10
* Jaffa votes, ups priority a little00:11
JaffaNah, I'll leave "low"00:12
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myscany hw diagnostic app for os08?00:13
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rm_youmysc: is anything visibly wrong with it?00:15
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rm_youmysc: has it been acting funny?00:16
rm_youmysc: lots of people have dropped them, it doesnt really do much unless you THREW IT at the ground, from like 15+feet00:16
rm_youI wouldn't worry about it unless it started acting funny00:16
myscrm_you thanks for the encouragement, nothing acting funny, no physical damage to exterior, fell about 1.5 meters onto a carpet00:21
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Veggenthere. a 4.1 SDK installed.00:22
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Veggen(had forgotten what trick I used to get it to run under amd64, and since I hadn't actually used it since I installed it on this box in may, I decided to scratch and reinstall rather than upgrade)00:23
rm_youmysc: lol, nothing at all to worry about... the device is solid state :) no moving parts to break00:26
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GeneralAntillesAnybody against deleting this?
lcukas long as you replace it with
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lcukGeneralAntilles, sardine is dead.  marius gave a eulogy in dev ml last week.00:28
GeneralAntillesYeah, I know. ;)00:28
myscheh rm_your, i'm ocd yes i am, yes i am00:28
lcukrm_you, actually, there are moving parts inside this device which can be severly effected by a fall00:29
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lcuktouchscreen has 2 layers with a small gap in the centre, and the 810 keyboard slide unit00:30
GeneralAntillesThose don't qualify as "moving parts"00:30
lcukwell if they get bent they wont move properly00:30
lcukhence "breaking" your machine00:31
GeneralAntillesSure, but they aren't "moving parts". A hard drive is a "moving part". :P00:31
JaffaGeneralAntilles: nuke with extreme prejudice00:31
lcukso long, and thanks for all the fish00:32
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myscGA, so as long as touchscreen works after fall you'd say coast is clear00:33
GeneralAntillesUnless something isn't working. . . .00:33
lcukmysc, reading your scrollback, do you know if the messages occured before the drop?00:34
mysceverything seems to be working except that voltage shit in dmesg, rmyou said this is always there.00:34
mysci don't recall dmesg output before the fall00:34
derfI've dropped my N800 a number of times, on hard surfaces.00:34
derfStill works for me.00:34
lcukn810: OMG I've fallen off a table00:35
lcukn810: Deploying thumb keyboard00:35
lcukn810: Starting Map00:35
lcukn810: This is gonna hurt00:35
lcukn810: ouch!00:35
myscok, i am going to test 3 meters now and no carpet and run dmesg again  (j/k)00:36
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myscis there any ways to change the "radius" that maemo-mapper uses when you dl maps around your gps'd location? it seems to get a few tiles in each direction. i guess i could do area and then i'd need the coords of top-left and bottom-right (any trick on that?)00:37
derfmysc: It pulls the coords from the area you're currently looking at.00:38
myscyes, but it only dl's a certain radius around that location. i want to extend that a bit00:38
derfAnd recent versions do have a slider somewhere that lets you set how many extra maps it gets.00:38
derfmysc: No, I mean the "Area" tab pulls the coords from what you're currently looking at.00:39
myscyeah, but how do i expand that "area"00:39
derfZoom out.00:39
myscthat hasn't worked for me.00:39
myscwill try again.00:39
derfYou still have to tell it to download the zoom levels you actually want.00:40
myscyeah, i'm giving it zoom level 100:40
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JaffaHmm, on the maemo summit agenda: "What Maemo users want" by Reggie and Krisse00:47
GeneralAntillesShould be interesting00:48
GeneralAntillessjgadsby, you seriously want me to use rtcomm's IRC component to test this? :P00:50
GeneralAntillesAnybody using rtcomm and IRC in Diablo?00:50
GeneralAntillesrm_you, ping.00:52
myscderf, was just being dumb about things, it works fine00:54
* mysc does the macarena h0h000:56
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rm_youGeneralAntilles: pong00:58
GeneralAntillesLogin to the wiki and move this to your userspace.
rm_youGeneralAntilles: you can't do it?01:00
GeneralAntillesYou, apparently, don't exist yet.01:01
rm_youdid my account get deleted?01:01
GeneralAntillesJust login and move it.01:02
GeneralAntillesCut'n'paste job.01:02
rm_youi can't log in01:02
GeneralAntillesNot article Rm_you01:02
GeneralAntillesUse the Garage information?01:02
rm_youLogin error:01:02
rm_youThere is no user by the name "rm_you". Check your spelling.01:02
n800mi'd try rm_me01:03
derfn800m: I think someone did.01:03
rm_youand I can't find the registration?01:03
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GeneralAntillesIt uses the garage accounts.01:04
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rm_youi have a garage account, thank you01:04
GeneralAntillesTry rmyou maybe?01:04
GeneralAntillesHrm, bug maybe. . . .01:05
rm_youthe whole maemo system hates me01:05
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, ping.01:05
rm_youfirst it wouldn't let me use my SVN01:05
rm_younow this <_<01:06
practisevoodoohas anyone had any luck coding with PyBluez on the maemo? my progs run fine but it cant actually find any devices01:06
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Toba_is it possible to take an image of the internal flash in my n810?  I know it's easy to flash, but I'd like to be able to undo *exactly* the flash/upgrade process01:11
GrackleThere is probably a way to do that, but it is not possible with the flasher utility. The easiest way to do that sort of thing would be to install to and boot from a system located on MMC, which you periodically back up using dd or somesuch.01:15
GrackleThat is the method that I use.01:16
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sjgadsbyGeneralAntilles: Yep. I found that bug just to force you to use RTCOMM for IRC. *grin*01:19
rm_youX-Fade: ping01:19
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myscis everything flashed from nokia bin put in: /dev/mtdblock0 ?01:21
myscif so, one might consider dd if=/dev/mtdblock0 of=file.bin01:21
GeneralAntillesmtdblock4 is rootfs01:22
myscwere i to do dd if=/dev/mtdblock4 of=backup.bin and diff backup.bin $original_nokia.bin, would i get same file?01:26
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Gracklemysc, hmm, I was wondering if something like that might work. Try it and see..01:27
myscGrackle, yes, i was thinking out loud based on your and Toba's Q01:29
myscbut i don't know how nokia's flasher writes the bin (i.e. to what devices)01:29
GrackleWell you can use -r to write to the rootfs, which GA says is mtdblock4.01:31
GeneralAntillesWell, -r will just flash the rootfs01:31
GeneralAntillesBut doesn't really let you write to it directly, per se.01:31
GrackleAre you just making a semantic argument or are you saying that won't work in this context?01:36
GeneralAntillesSemantic argument01:37
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lbthow does the flasher access the flash area? Is it via a kernel API?01:41
lbtI have a car stereo (empeg) that runs linux. Someone hacked the kernel to provide a /proc/flash which you could copy a file to and that would then be flashed.01:42
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lbtNo need for a seperate flasher tool; just scp (or putty).01:43
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GeneralAntillesWell, you can put info onto the flash just fine with mtdblock tools01:43
GeneralAntillessee fanoush's initfs flasher01:43
lbtOK - just random thoughts really :)01:44
GeneralAntillesThe NOLO is involved with flashing.01:44
GeneralAntillesOver USB01:44
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lbtthanks GeneralAntilles - makes sense - the mtd stuff is similar to what I meant (same goal).01:52
lbtOK - enough for tonight.... g'night all...01:53
lcukgnite lbt01:53
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kkrustywhat does this mean while building in scratchbox? sbox-i686-linux-g++: No such file or directory02:10
kkrustyIm using the VM appliance by the way02:10
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* timelyx sighs02:24
timelyxanother reason i want not to be a redirect:02:24
timelyxthe ability to whitelist or blacklist scripts from it independently of maemo.org02:25
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nikosapihello, is there a way to use a vpn on OS2008?02:28
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nikosapio rly?02:29
nikosapiis it relatively simple?02:30
kkrustyI have an app running in full screen in xephyr/scratchbox. How do I close it?02:34
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timelyxit's a simple google search away ... yes02:36
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timelyxGAN800: i'd have loved to know diablo was coming so i could have written relnotes..02:38
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GeneralAntillesHow're they coming?02:38
GeneralAntillesHey, guenther.02:38
timelyxi'm starving and days behind on scrollback.. i'll worry about them in a few (10?)hrs :)02:38
timelyxi should be ready to ask for help in 12-16hrs :)02:39
guentherheya GeneralAntilles02:39
timelyxJaffa: it's technically possible to rename sbox targets. i doubt there's a ui for it :)02:39
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guentherFixed your typo bug. ;)02:39
GeneralAntillesHehe, thanks!02:40
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gentooeri have the customized high speed kernel installed on an ext2 partition on my internal SD card.. will upgrading to diablo be a problem?02:41
kkrustyor am I expected to kill the process?02:41
guentherGeneralAntilles: Like the changes to bugzilla?02:42
GeneralAntillesYes, it looks really nice.02:43
guentherDid you have a look at planet already? ;)02:43
andre__guenther: thanks, honey! ;-))02:43
* guenther happy :-)02:43
acydlordanyone tried the adobe air for linux alpha yet?02:43
guenthermy pleasure, andre__02:43
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GeneralAntillesNope, didn't see the blog post yet.02:44
* kkrusty thinks that its not a good time to ask for help02:46
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timelyxguenther: what did you do to bugzilla?02:50
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guenthertimelyx: Improvements. :)02:51
timelyxplease clarify02:51
timelyxmost "improvements" i've heard of relating to bugzilla are merely bugs02:51
timelyx(i'm used to custom hacks which were requested by PHBs)02:51
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guentherSome template nicening.02:52
guentherAnd implemented bug 2035. Just as you wanted yourself. ;)02:52
timelyx"Waiting for"02:52
timelyxoh brother02:53
timelyxyou did me no favors02:53
timelyxi'm going to demand that you answer all my bugmail in the future02:53
timelyxi've already gotten bad mail because of your change02:53
timelyxask andre__02:53
guentherCome on, if you're talking to me -- talk to me.02:54
timelyxi'm a few days in scrollback. i've already sent andre cc's on the mail02:54
timelyxi'll forward them to you when i exit scrollback02:54
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timelyxbut the short of it is that @bmo we have a "no obligation" note02:54
timelyxand you seem to have lost that02:55
timelyxso now i have a "customer" saying "shouldn't you be nicer, aren't i paying your salary?"02:55
timelyxi should be nice and delete myself from and i told him as much.02:55
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Robot101this bug must be marked as PRE_SMOKED before you can tag it BONGHITS and accepted by the QA contact into SMOKED before being reassigned to the tester and marked as RELEASED by the first born son of your line manager02:55
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guenthertimelyx: Don't think I get you...02:56
Robot101and you must write Fixed into you changelog, not fixed02:56
Robot101or closes, like everyone else :P02:56
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timelyxguenther: either wait for andre__ to forward the mail, or wait for me to exit scrollback02:56
andre__timelyx, read zour mail, yupp. that's life, you will have to deal with that02:56
timelyxeither way, take my comment as an advance note that you've hurt me02:56
timelyxand i'm quite likely to leave bugzilla02:56
timelyxgan and others can point out that i've left maemo-devel02:57
guentherAre you talking about the group membership?02:57
guentherI did not set that bit.02:57
andre__but in general, people stating "i pay you" are very strange...02:57
guentherbtw, see my last comment02:57
guentherIf you want to participate as a private, not affiliated user, there is *nothing* that holds you back.02:58
guentherSO what is this about?02:58
timelyxGeneralAntilles: the internal bugzilla has a policy of not using FIXED on average02:59
timelyxhence we use things like ALREADYFIXED02:59
andre__well, if you want to be considered "private" we can just remove the group bit02:59
timelyxwhich are really an alias for WORKSFORME, but WORKSFORME is banned (policy)02:59
timelyxlcuk: note that it resembles the debian approach to bugs03:00
timelyxyou take a list of bugs that might or might not be resolved by shipping a "release"03:00
timelyxand you mass change them w/ some random resolution03:00
Robot101and INVALID is equivalent to insulting the reporter's mother, so it needs to be re-opened by the error manager and closed with a different more mutually acceptable resolution03:00
gentooeranyone using the modified initfs with Diablo?03:01
guenthertimelyx: So you want that bit removed for your personal address?03:02
GeneralAntillesLots of people, gentooer.03:02
timelyxguenther: please03:02
Robot101its OK though, the bugzilla hacks still don't match the bug procedure, so you can violate the procedure by just assigning the bugs back to people, and they just disappear off everyone's graphs. its great.03:02
GeneralAntillesfanoush updated the flasher a while ago.03:02
guenthertimelyx: Consider it done03:02
timelyxif i want to comment from a nokia address, i'll do so03:02
guentherHey, *I* did not set that bit.03:02
timelyxhowever the likelihood of me ever wanting to do that is infinitesimally small03:03
guentherAnd if I remember correctly, it might have been you actually. ;-)03:03
gentooerGeneralAntilles, if i'm upgrading to Diablo can I just flash it and the modified initfs will still work?03:03
GeneralAntillesGo grab fanoush's updated flasher and re-run it.03:03
timelyxJaffa: the ctrl-e thing was really annoying (find)03:04
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gentooerbut i boot off my SD card.. won't the Diablo update install everything on the internal flash memory?03:04
GeneralAntillesgentooer, no, you can't flash the rootfs directly to the card.03:05
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gentooerok.. guess i'll have to copy it all over again then03:05
GeneralAntillesFlashing Diablo wont upgrade your SD install.03:05
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GeneralAntillesAssuming I read you correctly, the procedure you want is 1. Flash Diablo, 2. Setup the bootmenu.conf (or use an old one) and flash fanoush's new initfs, 3. Get Diablo set up how you want, 4. Overwrite it over your SD partition, and 5. Boot from your new Diablo SD install.03:06
timelyxGAN800 / rm_you: 3326 was something someone changed03:07
gentooerGeneralAntilles, that sounds about right, thanks for explaining :)03:07
timelyxit bit me as i was trying to add new garage repos03:07
GeneralAntillesThanks for reminding me, gentooer. I need to do that and add my custom boot images again. ;003:08
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lcuk~lart harddrives03:18
* infobot brandishes Excalibur! "With this sword, I vanquish thee, harddrives!" and lops off harddrives's head03:18
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|penguinbait|anyone have  android on 810 working?03:38
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timelyxderf: it's ok, the supreme court declared the gun ban unconstitutional03:47
timelyxso now the guns are legal :)03:47
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derftimelyx: Actually, not quite yet they aren't.03:48
summatusmentislcuk: agreed... just had a second one die03:48
derfThey've got a couple of weeks to figure out how to deal with that.03:48
summatusmentissupreme court just declared that the first amendment right applied to individuals, right?03:48
lcukwell thankfully mine isn't quite dead. it was just resting03:49
summatusmentismine was making cliking noises, and d couldn't be fond to mount03:49
|penguinbait|anyone have  android on 810 working?03:49
summatusmentisthere's a video of it, iirc03:49
lcuksummatusmentis, ive had my first bsod *ever* in windows xp tonight!03:51
summatusmentislcuk: I don't use window :)03:52
summatusmentisbut congratulations, i suppose03:52
lcukwell without your harddrive you dont use anything :P03:52
summatusmentislol, the APple store fixed it03:52
summatusmentisbut my backups are at home, and I'm not :-/03:53
gentooeri just tried reinstalling openssh from the maemo site after upgrading to Diablo and it says "Application package not found"  does that mean it's not compatible with Diablo or is it just broken?03:53
lcuksummatusmentis, ouch, so they just replaced the drive03:54
summatusmentisyeah, it was under warranty03:54
summatusmentisthis is the second HD I've had die within the first year of having this03:54
GeneralAntillesgentooer, it's not in Diable Extras yet.03:54
lcuki suppose its better than a kick in the teeth, but data is more important than physical, at least you have backups03:55
GeneralAntillesDuplicate the maemo Extras repository in application manager and add chinook to the distribution field.03:55
summatusmentislcuk: I do, except I just left for vacation yesterday *rolls eyes*03:55
gentooerok thanks.. still don't really understand how these repos work..03:55
lcukanyway, now its working again, im gonna sleep03:57
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GeneralAntillesgentooer, the .installs on have a blank distribution field (for Extras, anyway), which defaults to whatever the current distribution you're using is (for you, diablo), but the Diablo area of Extras hasn't yet been populated (packages are being run through the autobuilder, should be mostly worked out in a few weeks), so the .install tells Application manager that you want to install the openssh package from Extras,03:59
GeneralAntillesChinook packages are basically 99% compatible with Diablo03:59
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GeneralAntillesso the stop-gap solution until Diablo Extras is populated is to simply add Chinook Extras to your repository list.04:00
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gentooerah wow thanks04:01
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gentooerah that feels better.. can't have a linux install without ssh access :)04:04
timelyxandre__: i'd have put 3330 in Misdirected:Nokia :)04:04
andre__ah, that's good. need to realize that there's something like "misdirected". though it's ugly, here it fits04:05
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GeneralAntillesI was gonna do that when I saw, but couldn't find it. :(04:06
GeneralAntilless/saw/saw it/04:06
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: I was gonna do that when I saw it, but couldn't find it. :(04:06
timelyxGeneralAntilles: you should practice cutting bugzilla url length04:07
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timelyxbasically anything that is x=& can be replaced by &04:10
timelyxand things which rely on pairs for which you've deleted the pair04:14
GeneralAntillesSo, the 4.1 bug list should be something like: ?04:16
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benhah cool, AGPS helper, rocks04:21
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* benh still needs to improve the GUI of bluetooth pan ... 04:22
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benhmartin never commited my updates04:25
benhnor did a release04:25
benhoh well, I'll add some more stuffs and we'll see04:25
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* timelyx reads the troll conversation from n days ago w/ interest04:34
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timelyxgourdin: fwiw, everyone can sound rude. i often sound rude.04:35
timelyxin reading what you read, it sounded pretty bad... but i'm glad to see you've stayed04:36
timelyxand hope that your contributions will grow :)04:36
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* timelyx wonders why crashanddie wrote (i ? i : 0)04:38
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timelyxandre__: fwiw, guenther "fixed" my account, so hopefully that part will go away04:46
guentherI believe he knows that already. ;)04:47
timelyxderf: ah, i haven't read wpost about it yet. i'm in .fi, so i only get an audio headline04:48
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andre__yupp :-)04:49
* timelyx exits scrollback04:49
RaytrayWelcome back to the present.04:49
rm_youtimelyx: ?04:49
rm_youtimelyx> GAN800 / rm_you: 3326 was something someone changed04:49
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andre__isn't 3326 a garage bug then and not a maemo bugzilla issue?04:56
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timelessgah, it's 8 til 5 and they close at 5. but they aren't open04:57
GeneralAntillesandre__, garage is a website component.04:58
timelesshow's that for service04:58
andre__uargh. confusion. okay...04:59
GeneralAntillesthe bug is in Garage itself.04:59
timelessanyway, is there a paln for abandonnigng the garage tracker?04:59
timelessor is it still a proposal?04:59
timelesswhere do i isgn?04:59
GeneralAntillesThe was a planet entry, there's a -developers thread and there's an itT thread.05:00
andre__heh. i sent an email to maemo-devs and a posting on itt, but not that much feedback. so it seems either garage devs don't really care or don't read anything05:00
GeneralAntillesHard to get feedback. . . .05:00
andre__it's up to them, if they are happy with garage, i won't stop them. less work for me05:00
GeneralAntillesMy personal feeling is that garage's tracker sucks, but I have some reservations about merging garage tracking with Bugzilla.05:02
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andre__oh, i'm also not that keen on it because it means more work for us. on the other hand, i can just offer this to the community, because that's who i work for :-)05:04
timelyxthe first thing i did when i got control of the browser garage system was disable all the tracker bits05:05
timelyxGeneralAntilles / andre__: one request: don't mass import bugs across05:05
timelyxespecially for the 770 backport project05:06
GeneralAntillesIs there any statistical information on the garage tracker usage?05:06
andre__eeks, that exists? sure, no way, i don't want entropy05:06
andre__i have enough of entropy already right now ;-)05:07
GeneralAntillesWhat projects use it the most. What kind of volume we're talking about. etc.05:07
* timelyx ponders05:07
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timelyxway too useful to expect ;-)05:07
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GeneralAntillesSo, a few clarifications.05:13
GeneralAntillesHow might it be set up? 3rd Party product with projects as components of that?05:14
timelyxbugzilla supports a thing called classifications05:14
timelyx(requires upgrading to supported version of bugzilla)05:14
timelyxGarage would be a classification05:14
timelyxeach project in garage is given a product in bugzilla w/in the garage classification05:14
timelyxwhere possible components w/in a product should have common names05:15
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timelyxto enable cross queries05:15
GeneralAntillesTo reduce clutter, it should definitely be an opt-in thing for project admins05:16
GeneralAntillesShould there also be some sort of barrier to entry?05:16
GeneralAntillesThere are a lot of very stagnant projects on Garage, and it seems like you wouldn't want them getting in the way.05:16
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timelyxi think you can try to brute force tracker :)05:17
timelyxi've done it before to get svn roots05:17
GeneralAntillesI think the net effect will be a positive one05:20
GeneralAntillesas I can't imagine many people wanting to submit bugs to a garage tracker.05:20
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guentherjust like issue reporting forum thingy05:23
guentherIt's just unusable.05:23
GeneralAntillesI'm just a little worried about possible negative side effects and the specifics of the implementation.05:23
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timelyxi think you might even only migrate 2 projects per week05:24
timelyxthat'd mean it'd take 3-4 years to migrate, but hey :)05:24
timelyx(ok, maybe that's a bit slow, how about 10/week)05:25
GeneralAntillesWell, the question still remains as to how many projects are actually using their trackers.05:25
GeneralAntillesI don't think it's all that many, myself.05:25
* timelyx nods05:25
timelyxi'm still trying to figure out a way to find out if any are05:25
timelyxnote that it's easy for users to use a tracker w/o the project05:25
rm_youi use mine05:25
timelyxsince the project can easily not know the tracker exists05:25
rm_youGeneralAntilles: but i guess i would be up with switching05:25
GeneralAntillesCanola uses theirs05:26
GeneralAntillesMaemo Mapper users theirs05:26
timelyxthis group is theoretically using it as the assignee has reported 3 of the "items"05:26
rm_youthen i could refer to my volume crash bug with its bug number and not confuse people ;P05:26
timelyxrm_you ~wouldn't it be nice~05:26
timelyxhrm, i think i'm no longer a garage admin :(05:27
rm_youdamn bug #259305:27
GeneralAntillesmplayer is sorta using theirs05:27
rm_youtho, it IS global...05:27
timelyxBugzilla Bug 259305:28
timelyxGetting started does not work with Flash disabled05:28
GeneralAntillesPyMaemo seemms to be05:28
rm_youyeah but at least garage is global to garage05:28
GeneralAntillesOMWeather, too.05:28
rm_youtho i guess I would be down with switching to bugzilla05:28
rm_youpeople would have a better idea of where to go to post bugs05:29
guentherFix your code then before the switch. ;)05:29
GeneralAntillesSo #2593 is somewhat meaningful to the total number of bugs in all the Garage trackers?05:29
rm_youGeneralAntilles: yes05:29
timelyxdoesn't exist :)05:29
timelyxso we're talking about a handful05:29
GeneralAntillesWe get so many dupes in the adv-backlight tracker. I yearn for a RESOLVED DUPLICATE. :D05:29
GeneralAntillesHow many bugs are in the Hacker Edition trackers?05:30
rm_youi want a "WONTFIX INTENDED"05:30
guenther"intended" is implied05:31
timelyxGeneralAntilles: probably most of them :)05:31
rm_youwhat is the standard state for "THIS IS NOT A BUG, THIS IS A FEATURE" :P05:31
guentherquote: "or some sort of a feature"...05:31
timelyxthere are < 2700 tracker items05:31
guentherrm_you: RESOLVED INVALID most of the time05:31
timelyxis a great bug05:32
rm_youGeneralAntilles: maybe I should BURY that option05:32
guentherdifferences are subtle sometimes05:32
GeneralAntillestimelyx, is there somewhere I can get a feel for the classification setup in action?05:32
guentherRESOLVED NOTABUG often :)05:32
timelyxGeneralAntilles: :)05:32
timelyxor bugzilla.gnome.org05:32
timelyxpossibly bugzilla.redhat.com05:32
timelyxanyone w/ a maintained bugzilla and a moderately large set of components has to have it05:33
timelyxit's mostly a hack, since it doesn't actually affect bug views, and barely affects searching/reporting05:34
timelyxall it does is limit the number of visible products05:35
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timelyxbah, tracker is amazingly useless05:36
GeneralAntillesWell, it definitely fits in with the branding and trademark direction.05:36
GeneralAntillesI think we can all agree that Garage tracker needs to die.05:37
timelyxeven having used tracker, i still have a hard time recognizing if a bug is open or closed05:37
timelyx <open>05:37
GeneralAntillesIt's horrifying.05:37
GeneralAntillesAs it's stands, garage is mostly a horrifying maze of evil and difficult to understand nooks and crannies.05:38
GeneralAntillesMuscle memory05:39
GeneralAntillesMy spine does what it wants. :D05:39
GeneralAntillesguenther or andre__, one of you want to put up a proposal on the wiki? "Task:Garage bug tracking" or similar.05:41
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andre__sunds good. my plan was to collect feedback and then "streamline" it to a wiki page. however, so far it's easy to collect ;-)05:43
timelyxit's limited to two screens of chatter above this line? :)05:43
acydlordanyone in here who uses a sprint data plan gonna be willing to sign a petition to sprint?05:43
GeneralAntillesWill there be cookies and punch?05:44
timelyxGeneralAntilles: basically the default component should probably be "General"05:44
andre__got to sleep. i can see light out there...05:44
timelyxunless someone has a really good argument for another name05:44
GeneralAntillesLater, andre__.05:44
timelyxandre__: heh05:44
timelyxgood night, sleep tight, don't let the maemo bugs bite05:44
acydlordsadly i cant afford cookies05:44
timelyxmilk then?05:45
guentherandre__: yeah... -(05:45
GeneralAntillesHow about a free hat?05:45
rm_youI think the default component should be "Antilles"05:45
rm_youhow about that? :P05:45
GeneralAntillesSorry, rm_you. :P05:45
rm_youfine, "General" works too05:45
guentherrm_you: you mean default assignee, right? ;)05:45
timelyxi think we could probably skip importing resolved bugs05:45
timelyxunless someone has a reason to import them05:46
timelyxnot sure about the value one way or the other05:46
rm_youtimelyx: you could really just let people import their own bugs <_<05:46
GeneralAntillesLeave it up to the project admins?05:46
GeneralAntillesIf they have a good reason for importing a resolved bug, they can import it?05:46
guenthersure, no duping to the resolved bug05:46
timelyxi think per project admins should get an email05:46
rm_youi mean... i wouldn't want to be FORCED to use a different system05:46
timelyxasking them to opt in or opt out, or opt manual05:46
guentherBut close one as resolved, and dupe the rest.05:46
timelyxyou could choose "I'll migrate to bugzilla, just create the product"05:47
timelyxor "Yes, migrate me"05:47
timelyxor "No, don't migrate me"05:47
timelyxor "I'm too lazy to reply to email, do whatever you feel is best"05:47
guenthertimelyx: That's implied after a timeout with no response. ;)05:47
timelyxguenther: yes05:48
timelyxbut it should be listed as an option in the email05:48
timelyx<if you don't reply by {deadline}, this {action} will happen automatically>05:48
guentherthat sounds better05:48
guentherI was about to tell you to phrase it more strict05:48
guentherand scary05:48
guenthers/this action/ WHATEVER WE FEEL LIKE DOING /05:49
timelyx"We will do something, and you probably won't like it"05:49
guentherprobably including feeding the devs cat05:49
guentherlike that05:50
timelyxi think the bigger question is how to handle components later05:50
timelyxsupposing someone actually wants them05:50
timelyxi'd hope maemo mapper and a couple of the others you've already named would05:50
acydlordugh, i cant download diablo thanks to this damn unstable connection and sprint making the data plan suck05:51
timelyxideally there wouldn't be too many such requests per time period, so it shouldn't hurt the admins05:51
timelyxacydlord: find a shell account05:51
guentheradding components should be harmless05:52
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GeneralAntillesSo, say we decide to move Advanced Backlight tracking over to bugzilla, versioning, etc is done for that component by the project admin(s)?05:52
guentherin GNOME, the devs of a project can do it themself05:53
guentherno such thing in bugs.maemo.org05:53
timelyxguenther: that's the things05:53
timelyxhence the "not quite harmless" bit :)05:53
timelyxi don't remember what current bugzilla says05:53
guentherBut I haven't seen components change heavily ever.05:53
|penguinbait|anyone have  android on 810 working?05:53
timelyxi think a properly configured product can probably be tweaked by its own group05:53
|penguinbait|sorry for repeating, its been a while :)05:54
* timelyx thinks it's an inappropriate question :)05:54
timelyxthis is #maemo, not #nit :)05:54
timelyxbut i'm just one voice :)05:54
GeneralAntillesMeh, Debian-maemo discussion goes on in here.05:54
timelyxthey're either an upstream or a downstream :)05:55
guentherI still guess, new products should be harmless. Don't expect much requests.05:55
GeneralAntilles|penguinbait|, I've never actually seen anybody in here with it.05:55
|penguinbait|I am just looking to see if anyone actually got it working.05:55
|penguinbait|I flash the kernel and can longer boot05:55
timelyxguenther: yeah, that's my view05:55
guentherNo real use for any component other than General, unless there is a substantial amount of bugs anyway.05:55
timelyxi just want you to be aware that by default you get stuck w/ the maintenance05:55
|penguinbait|I was asked to help someone thats all I was trying to  do05:56
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guentheryes, I am aware we're going to shoulder the support load05:56
timelyxfwiw, i'd really recommend changing the email domain space a bit05:56
timelyxusing * for bugs is a really bad idea :)05:56
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guentherWhat do you mean?05:57
timelyxi mean, what if a real person wants one of those valuable email addresses :)05:57
myscare the mojo folks going to make a bootable ubuntu (a-la-john)?05:57
GeneralAntillesmysc, no clue, that'd be a question for the mojo folks. ;)05:58
timelyxinstead of that, i'd have preferred bookmarks@bugs.maemo.org05:58
myscheh, true enough. might be neat to play with...05:58
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timelyxit's a minor detail, i just was responsible for the design05:59
timelyxand wasn't allowed to pick the design here05:59
guentherWell, what human wants an something-bugs address? ;)05:59
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timelyxguenther: i know...05:59
timelyxbut when you start adding lots of other projects, you might end up w/ conflicts05:59
timelyxand it's a lot easier to have no MX on than it is to deal w/ an MX which has real accounts and dozens of fakes05:59
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guentherActually, some internal discussions...06:01
timelyxjust something to fix nowish when you do the migration :)06:01
guentherThe GNOME style is what I want.06:01
timelyxwhich is what?06:01
guentherWhy should the domain part exist at all?06:01
timelyxsorry, i only visit bgo on rare occasions06:01
timelyxoh, i'd prefer %component%@%product%.bugs06:01
guentherIt's an alias to *watch*.06:01
timelyxwhich is what we use @ bmo06:01
guentherIt should not direct to any valid domain with an MX.06:02
timelyxthe nice part about the @ part is it makes for easy user match searching06:02
timelyxyeah, it doesn't @ bmo (bmo is accept when explicitly written as bugs-maemo)06:02
guentherand it doesn't at bgo06:03
timelyxthere was even an explanation for the people who complain which is that "" is not an FQDN unless written ""06:03
timelyxso as far as the bugzilla is concerned, it's relative to some private host :)06:03
guentherChanging this is somewhere on my list...06:03
timelyxok, good :)06:03
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timelyxoh, one warning06:04
timelyxthe clever folks @ ICANN have decided to break DNS06:04
timelyxso someone probably needs to go register bugs.06:04
guentherProblem solved. :)06:05
* GeneralAntilles wants the mediawiki karma plugin already.06:08
myschrmm, google satellite apparently has blocked my ip from dl'ing to much via mapper06:08
myscany suggestion other than changing ip?06:08
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guenthermysc: I found the same 2 days ago...06:11
GeneralAntillesI usually do my downloads for Maemo Mapper in 20-40MB batches.06:11
guentherI still hope they'll unblock me eventually.06:11
timelyxstop acting like a bot :)06:12
timelyxor start leaching someone else's wifi :)06:12
guentherHey, the pre-cache was set to 5 by accident. :)06:12
timelyx(this is *NOT* legal advice...)06:12
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mysci guess i'll have to use someone else's wifi06:14
GeneralAntillesmysc, send Google an angry letter. :P06:14
guenthermysc: dynamic IP with regular ISP?06:14
timelyxGeneralAntilles: for violating their TOS?06:14
GeneralAntillesCycle the cable modem!06:15
GeneralAntillestimelyx, ;)06:15
timelyxgood luck w/ that06:15
myscwell, i'll just cycle my ip but then dl en-force via leeched wifi06:18
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* guenther tips his hat06:21
guenthernight folks06:22
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* timelyx sighs06:22
* timelyx goes to read planet debian06:22
timelyxpeople don't really understand what CSS is or what it can do06:23
Proteousphear the cascading!!06:23
GeneralAntillesAint that the truth.06:23
ProteousLOOK OUT BELOW06:23
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* GeneralAntilles hits Proteous in the head with jacob's ladder.06:24
GeneralAntilless/with/with a/06:24
rm_youjust beware of resonance failures06:25
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gentooeranyone have osso-statusbar-cpu working with Diablo?06:31
GeneralAntillesinz updated it a little while ago06:32
GeneralAntillesdunno if it ever made it to the repo06:32
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GeneralAntillesAnybody able to explain this?
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timelyxack, he cloned it?06:34
timelyxplease dupe it w/ a big lecture06:35
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timelyxand then talk w/ the openismus people about removing cloning support for people w/o editbugs06:35
timelyxcloning should be used rarely if ever06:35
timelyxit's clearly way too accessible06:35
timelyxbtw, if you like (or don't) reading bugs and have followed the planet.debian spam, you might enjoy
GeneralAntillesKill me. <_<06:38
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I'd make it more offensive for the sake of spite.06:39
* timelyx sighs06:43
timelyxrm -rf /Users/debian/06:43
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* rm_you just had iceweasel crash 3 times within 10 minutes on different sites, many of which he frequented before without trouble06:48
timelyxwow, a good article
timelyxrm_you: use firefox3 (official) and load about:crashes06:49
rm_youtimelyx: is that anywhere in any debian repo? or do i just have to go get the deb myself?06:51
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timelyxdon't get a deb06:52
timelyxthe debs don't give you crash reporting06:52
timelyxjust get the firefox tarball from mozilla.org06:52
timelyxextract it to ~/06:52
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rm_youthis is why i just use opera >_>07:04
* rm_you likes opera07:06
* rm_you wants opera back on his n80007:06
WormFoodis there a way to enter chinese, by drawing the characters on the screen? I've seen cell phones that have that ability, and it would be really cool if the n800 can do it as well07:06
GeneralAntillesOpera was the suck.07:06
GeneralAntillesGood riddance to bad rubbish.07:06
rm_youOpera was the awesome. :(07:06
rm_youNo, you!07:06
GeneralAntillesDidn't work anywhere.07:06
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* GeneralAntilles is watching the Blues Brothers again.07:08
rm_youwow, it loaded my iceweasel profile :P07:08
rm_youoriginal, or 2000? :P07:09
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GeneralAntillesOriginal. . . .07:09
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timelyxrm_you: you're welcome to make a contract w/ opera for opera for n80007:12
timelyxi'm sure they'll gladly take your money07:12
timelyxWormFood: afaik diablo ships w/ a chinese ime07:12
timelyxand yes, it's a stroke based onscreen ime07:12
rm_youi'm sure I could hack it in from the 2007 firmware images <_<07:12
timelyxthe feature has actually been available internally since os200507:12
derftimelyx: How about Japanese?07:13
GeneralAntillesrm_you, somebody already has.07:13
timelyxderf: i have no idea what shipped07:13
timelyxbut in theory there's no reason only one should work :)07:13
WormFoodtimelyx, but does it allow you to draw the characters?07:13
timelyxas opposed to what?07:13
timelyxit's stroke based07:13
timelyxyou can't draw pixels07:13
WormFoodI know I could install a pinyin input on the older ones07:13
WormFoodchinese has more different ways to input than any other language07:14
WormFoodthe most common input methods are wubi and pinyin07:14
timelyxafaiu you make a number of strokes and when you're done it figures out which character you wanted based on what you drew07:14
WormFoodI personally use pinyin, but I'm learning wubi to type the characters I don't know how to spell07:14
timelyxand it's a match for approximately what you drew07:14
derfIs this something Makoto Sugano was working on?07:14
WormFoodcool, I'll have to check it out07:14
derfI.e., is it related to maemocjk at all?07:14
timelyxsorry, i'm a browser dev, i've used a number of different methods07:15
timelyxbut i don't memorize their names07:15
timelyxnor do i memorize which ones we worked on internally07:15
timelyxbecause to me they're all just pretty little pictures07:15
timelyxand more chances to try and crash thigns07:15
* timelyx has crashes a number of IMEs :)07:15
timelyxeat that infobot07:16
WormFood中文 is easy to type ;)07:16
GeneralAntillestimelyx, it doesn't do /me's. ;)07:16
rm_youGeneralAntilles: who, and where can I get it :P07:16
WormFoodif the N800/810 wasn't so hard to get into china, I'm sure they would be able to sell them in China07:16
timelyxGeneralAntilles: then it should have fixed the previous line :)07:17
GeneralAntillesI don't think you properly remember just how much Opera sucked, though.07:17
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derfAnyway, the nice thing about NOT providing a CJK-IME was that there was one I could actually build from sources available.07:18
derfWhich meant I could do things like add SKK input to it.07:19
timelyxderf: *shrug* i have the diablo sources on swift, they should be on my tomorrow if i can find a way to do the rsync07:19
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rm_youno deb there :( sad07:22
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rm_youawesome, so i can ssh into my tablet but have no idea where it is07:24
* GeneralAntilles has done that.07:25
GeneralAntillesIt was under my bed.07:25
rm_youi hope i have the volume turned up decently...07:25
* rm_you plays some techno with mplayer07:25
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rm_youfound it :P07:26
rm_youGeneralAntilles: you said you play Wesnoth?07:26
rm_youhow <_<07:27
GeneralAntillesInstall it07:27
rm_youit seems unplayable without a right click07:27
GeneralAntillesMeh, it's a little slow07:27
GeneralAntillesBut it's a strategy game07:27
rm_youand very annoying without a keyboard07:27
derf"A little"07:27
derfIt's painful.07:27
rm_youi have yet to find a way to do the things the tutorial tells me to do07:27
GeneralAntillesDepends on perspective, I guess.07:27
rm_yousince i can't right click07:27
GeneralAntillesTap the menu?07:27
GeneralAntillesI believe it describes the alternative method in the tutorial07:28
rm_youit didn't07:28
rm_youand i couldn't undo because I didnt have my keyboard with me07:28
GeneralAntillesUse the menu07:28
rm_youthough i fixed that by rebinding u to the esc button07:28
rm_youbut how do you right click on a square with the menu?07:28
timelyx^ would anyone risk offering that guy an n810?07:29
timelyxrm_you: i generally send bt objects to my devices when i can't find them :)07:29
myschrmm MM crashed and rebooted my nit07:31
rm_youtimelyx: lol07:32
rm_youfortuntely i know how to change volume on command line :P07:32
myscit is weird that the nit rebooted, aye?07:32
rm_youanyone here know how to use aircrack-ng? :P just installed, want to test it on some of the networks here07:33
GeneralAntillesmysc, I've never seen Maemo Mapper cause a reboot.07:33
derfGeneralAntilles: I have.07:33
GeneralAntillesIt used to crash all the time when I accidently turned off my BT GPS before disconnecting07:33
timelyxrm_you: i don't have commandlines on all of my phones07:33
GeneralAntillesbut no reboots07:33
timelyxso bt objects work nicely07:33
timelyxand my mac can send them07:34
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derfIt used to happen _a lot_ before it switched to the database for maps.07:34
timelyx'course, on average my devices are all muted, but hey, it's worth a try07:34
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derfI mostly blame it on crappy mmc drivers.07:34
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snowmoonI've seen MAemo Mapper cause a reboot on an n810.07:35
* timelyx still remembers a pdf reader causing a 770 to reboot07:35
myschrmmm, it shouldn't cause a reboot though, more like an app crash, but a system crash?07:36
GeneralAntillesPissed off a watchdog07:36
rm_youtimelyx: what phone you have? :P you need to get putty07:36
myscsw_rst thats in the boot reason, doesn't seem like a wd07:38
timelyxrm_you: 9300i, n81 8gb, e61i, and a bunch of older ones07:40
timelyxbut i don't think i can run sshd on them07:40
timelyxi do run putty on the ones i named07:41
timelyxbut it doesn't help when i can't find the phone :)07:41
myscGA, seems like /usr/bin/bme_RX-34 was to blame, any ideas/07:41
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rm_youah you were talking about losing phones :P right. <_<07:41
GeneralAntillesbme is the battery management entity.07:41
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myschrmm, well i have 19 sw_rst's 1 entry in lg_reset and 6 in lg_restart07:43
rm_youaww :(07:46
rm_youno aircrack-ng for me07:46
myscGA i might have discovered a bug, seems like the batt had just finished charging when this happens. so battery full + MM + venus with saturn ascending = reboot07:48
rm_youjust installed wireless-tools on my desktop... ran iwconfig... apparently i have been connected to some guy's network since i turned on my machine07:48
rm_youso like, the last 10 days07:48
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GeneralAntillesA friend of mine once set up his neighbor's linksys router instead of his own.07:49
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timelyxso, anyone here remember getting dialogs from microb asking about insecure form submits?07:49
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timelyxGeneralAntilles: nice07:49
NaviThere have been a lot of stories like that, GeneralAntillesn07:49
NaviHuh, howd that n get in there07:50
NaviI love magic.07:50
rm_youNavi: you typed "GeneralA" and hit tab, while still typing the n07:50
NaviOoh, nice07:51
Navirm_you wins the prize07:51
GeneralAntillesNavi's hand in marriage?07:51
GeneralAntillestimelyx, I don't think I've seen the insecure form bug in Diablo.07:52
NaviIf I were tab completing, Id hit tab at the first n07:52
timelyxwanna try to hit it sooner?07:53
timelyx has the block of bad code07:53
myscwell folks, don't ever reach 100% batt while dl'ing maps of madagascar from google07:53
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timelyx1699     if (!gtk_moz_embed_common_get_pref(G_TYPE_BOOLEAN, "plugins.flashhack", &bfval))07:54
timelyxcontrols the value of 'bfval'07:54
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timelyxtry setting plugins.flashhack to true07:55
timelyxif you restart, bad things should happen :)07:56
* timelyx sighs07:56
timelyxthe entire block of code should really be delated07:57
timelyxit's merely a collection of bugs07:57
timelyxmy quick read of is that if you ever run out of memory w/o crashing and then quit07:58
timelyxyou're fsck for a session07:58
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benhdiablo update killed my wayfinder nav key08:14
* benh emails them08:14
benhit won't accept the key anymore, I probably should have "deactivated" it before the update...08:14
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GeneralAntillesFlash has been bringing my computer to a screeching halt for 30 seconds everytime I hit a page with it. Turned it off and it's like a whole new internet. . . .08:26
qwerty12Flash sucked when I used to use it in Linux. Though using it with the pulseaudio plugin made matters worse :/08:27
timelyxbenh: yeah, you should have, sorry about that :(08:27
benhtimelyx: bah, I suppose/hope wayfinder support will fix that up08:28
benhI don't need the nav. this week-end08:28
timelyxthey should, you're a paying customer08:28
benhso Diablo didn't grow some Bluetooth PAN support nicely integrated in the GUI...08:29
benhlooks like I should really finish adding those GUI bits to the garage projects08:29
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derfGeneralAntilles: I just don't even install Flash these days.08:42
derfMakes the web much nicer.08:42
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benhhrm, why the hell would I have to disable the vdso to use diablo sdk ?08:43
benhsome issue with the emulator ?08:43
smackpotatoi does free 42 work08:46
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lirianybody selling his n800?09:23
GeneralAntillesWhose N800? :P09:24
liriit goes on on $219 but the shipment to europe/me is like $50 sheesh09:25
GeneralAntillesliri, check the itT sales forum.09:25
GeneralAntillesIt's discontinued now, so you may have a little trouble getting it.09:26
liriwhats the address for the forum?09:27
qwerty12I swear down, this is the time I ever compile any form of mozilla/firefox etc again. This shit's meant to be micro and it's taking me years to compile >.<09:28
qwerty12s/time/last time/09:28
infobotqwerty12 meant: I swear down, this is the last time I ever compile any form of mozilla/firefox etc again. This shit's meant to be micro and it's taking me years to compile >.<09:28
benhhrm weirdo, map/wayfinder cannot open the gps anymore09:29
* benh wonders if that's related to the new agps thingy09:29
benhit doesn't give an error, just "no gps connection"09:30
* benh kicks it09:30
benhah, that must have worked :-)09:31
liriI wish I could get to work on the n81009:33
liriit is based on Roadmap09:34
qwerty12If you mean the program, roadmap is available for maemo too.09:34
liriisn't it in beta or something?09:36
qwerty12No idea, garage says beta/production - stable09:37
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myscq12, does it reboot your boxen like mm?  :>09:42
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qwerty12mysc, compiling microb?09:42
myscnope, just having fun watching mm reboot my box09:44
mysccheers all, gotta run.09:44
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, you compile it yet? :P09:44
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Naviqwerty12, pfft09:44
NaviLayout engines are very complex things09:45
Naviyou should have expected it09:45
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Nope. Some find string failed. I'm dpkg-buildpackaging again to see what error and edit the rules file when I see it.09:45
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qwerty12Navi, I expected something that built straight. I've already had to make changes because it wants to patch a file that doesn't exist and 3 patches that don't apply >.<09:46
NaviIt's to be expected09:47
Navithey're in the unstable phase at the moment09:47
Navior so I remember09:47
qwerty12Got any pointers on: "cp: cannot stat `build-tree/obj-edyn-armel-sb-buildmicrob2/dist/bin/Test*Embed': No such file or directory09:48
qwerty12". It sounds like an expression to me so I have no idea why scratchbox is being a knob.09:48
qwerty12Oh wait, I know why.09:49
qwerty12That's one of the patches I removed because it didn't apply and I'm a lazy ass shit to fix it.09:49
qwerty12Re the microb-gtkmozembed problem, I'm just gonna steal the control file from libgtkmozembed. Why? Nokia do like to let us end-users who compile stuff have different names from official. And as Diablo is about SSU, I don't want the apt or osso-software-version stuff messing up.09:55
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qwerty12Done. Dunno if this build will hold though, I need to make some modifications to the debianisation and I'll test it out.10:07
qwerty12Navi, Is microb-xulrunner any useful?10:13
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timelyxqwerty12: i didn't realize i had the crash reporter in my repo, but i'm glad it was helpful10:21
Naviqwerty12, it's as useful as you make it10:21
qwerty12timelyx, Heh, thanks for it.10:22
Navian obscure answer like that only means that I can't think of anything to do with it10:22
qwerty12Navi, Heh, I was gonna say it was a bit cryptic :p. I don't think xulrunner is needed anyway :/10:22
qwerty12(for the tablets)10:22
timelyxyou could use it to host fennec or chatzilla10:23
timelyxor dozens of other apps10:23
* timelyx shrugs10:23
Naviyeah, but I'm not a fan of those xulrunner apps to begin with10:23
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timelyxheck, xulrunner should be able to host normal firefox too :)10:26
qwerty12Don't think I'll be able to share this one. For some reason, microb-gtkmozembed_20080616-17_armel.deb has nothing inside it.10:28
qwerty12Meh, I'll just make a hybrid. Don't think that makes this ready for sharing.10:29
* qwerty12 = most dodgy debian packager ever10:30
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acydlordi wish i had me some stable internets so i could download the sdk10:31
timelyxacydlord: what do you mean by sdk?10:32
timelyxbecause i was able to download what i think is the sdk using apt10:32
timelyxand that's fairly fault tolerant10:32
acydlordby sdk i mean the full maemo mess10:33
acydlordi'm borrowing internet, so its not very stable and the speeds are no good10:33
timelyxif it isn't open, i don't want it :)10:33
acydlordi'm going to find out which neighbor i'm borrowing internet from and buy them a new router10:35
timelyxgood plan10:36
acydlordindeed, i mean i've been stealing their internet for one, and their router sucks10:36
timelyxwould an AOL CD improve performance?10:37
acydlordsadly, it quite possibly could10:37
GeneralAntillesUse it to incapacitate your neighbor and then replace their router?10:38
acydlordi've been downloading the diablo image so i can flash my n810, it's been going on 4 hours now10:38
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GeneralAntillesWe used to play dodge-the-flying-disc-of-doom with AOL CDs.10:38
timelyxit could be worse10:38
timelyxi had a DVD that said it'd take a few days to download10:39
timelyxi gave up on my corporate network and switched to dsl10:39
acydlordi could be useing carrier pidgeon protocol?10:39
acydlordi'm going to call around in a week or so and see if any of the dsl providers will offer me a 12/12 connection10:39
timelyxhey, i think modern pigeons w/ usb sticks have fairly good bandwidth/range for the buck10:39
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timelyxif necessary, you can use an 8gb microSD card10:40
GeneralAntilles12/12 from DSL?10:40
GeneralAntillesI doubt it10:40
acydlordi still need to get an 8gb microsd for my n8a010:40
timelyxbut i'd recommend a 16gb usb stick if supported by your local PigeonProvider10:40
acydlordunless someone gets 16 supported10:40
acydlorddsl /CAN/ do up to 15/1510:41
acydlordsomeone as i am too lazy to attempt to hack the kernel10:41
acydlordand tere is still that whole not being able to download maemo thing10:41
qwerty1216 should already be supported by stock kernel.10:41
timelyxqwerty12: i'm fairly certain nokia only warrantees 810:42
timelyxand since i know even 1g cards that have died10:42
timelyxi'm not quite sure i'd risk a new expensive 16g card ;)10:42
GeneralAntilles16GB works fine.10:42
GeneralAntilles32GB will work fine10:42
timelyxreally? cool10:42
GeneralAntilles8GB was probably just what was available to test with.10:42
qwerty12Will 1TB be supported by the kernel?10:42
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: pong ;)10:43
timelyxhi X-Fade10:43
GeneralAntillesSDHC should be able to do 2048GB just fine10:43
GeneralAntillesBut I'm not sure if anything needs doing software-side.10:43
acydlordwell shart, i'll have to find a 32gb card10:43
pupnik2x micro-sd would be great in the N9x010:43
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, timelyx already played the "make GA remember what he said 3 days ago in scrollback game today". :P10:43
* pupnik crosses fingers10:43
qwerty12Heh, someone will just backport a patch to 2.6.21 and hope Menulaus doesn't burn out with a 1tb card :P10:43
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Well, I see a ping from you about 9 hours ago, so ;)10:44
acydlordbah, my beard just hit he itchy stage again10:45
GeneralAntilleslol acydlord.10:46
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, don't recall, probably wasn't important.10:46
GeneralAntillesI do see rm_you pinging you.10:46
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Great, waste my time ;)10:46
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Yeah, I'm going to pong him tomorrow ;)10:47
* GeneralAntilles pokes X-Fade with a sharpened stick.10:48
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GeneralAntillesAh, I remember now. Can you poke somebody about this?
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JaffaAh, X-Fade - just the man I need.10:56
X-FadeOk, I got to leave now, I guess :)10:57
Jaffa looks very weird.10:58
JaffaI was trying to recreate a problem with the armel build (another issue, I think), so resubmitted it last night; and that's all there is.10:58
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qwerty12Hah, I installed the microb and it starts and then it closes :/10:59
acydlordoops, i forgot to save my settings10:59
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X-FadeJaffa: Yes, that is weird. It looks like the process just stopped.11:05
X-FadeJaffa: I have no idea why.11:05
JaffaCan I resubmit or do you want the current state to investigate (not that's there much in the publically visible bit)11:06
X-FadeJaffa: Hmm no, it is still running ;)11:06
X-FadeJaffa: So, that is definately weird.11:07
JaffaPerhaps the building process needs a CPU time ulimit11:07
X-FadeJaffa: I'll ask Ed to look into this.11:09
X-FadeWe do have multiple builders, so it isn't blocking others.11:09
JaffaAh, cool11:09
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JaffaPresumably, not till tomorrow, tho'?11:10
JaffaI suppose that gives me a chance to investigate the mud bugs in the package11:10
X-FadeJaffa: Well, I've mailed him. Don't know if he will be online today.11:11
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JaffaDoes pycage work for Nokia?11:24
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melmothGood morning.11:24
melmothX-Fade: remember the porblem i had building a package on the diablo autobuilder (armel package had no file, i386 had them all) ?11:25
melmothDo you know if the guy in charge of the auto builder had time to look at it ? (ie should i retry now, or is it not worth it right now)11:25
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Cptnodegardhow the fuck do you add url's to the internet radio? o011:46
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lcukjaffa - dr who !!!11:48
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sp3000timelyx: in case you missed my ping last night12:03
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ccookeDamn. Anyone know how to get gstreamer to stream from an rtsp connection?12:09
ccookeThe media player can do it, the internet radio applet does it... gstreamer, it seems, can't12:09
sp3000or, "how to distinguish you /dev/null pref sink and false constant variables with one character and lose"12:09
* sp3000 runs to $random_family_event12:12
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ccookeHmm. I guess I can use mplayer for it...12:13
ccookebut that's *ugly*12:13
GeneralAntillesStick a prettier frontend on it, then.12:17
ccookeThat would be the plan, yes :-)12:20
ccookeI was just hoping for something a little more integrating than forking and controlling via a pipe :-)12:20
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rm_youccooke: mplayer has a slave mode12:44
ccookeSo it does12:47
ccookenever noticed that before :-)12:47
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qwerty12Can't wait for the browser extras to release this: :)13:26
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macouteJaffa: one of the most important bugs to squeeze imo is that stopping video on client should stop also transcoding on server.13:49
macouteJaffa: i could check the source too for that one, thouh13:49
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webustanyhi there14:02
webustanyhas someone already used LD_PRELOAD on maemo ?14:03
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pupnikyes it works14:16
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Jaffamacoute: it already should do that14:28
Jaffalcuk: I know!14:28
Jaffalcuk: but... but... but... noooooo!14:29
lcukbu hu neee whhhh huuu14:31
GeneralAntillesAh, today's newbie itT PM is already here.14:33
macouteJaffa: version 0.5?14:34
lcukGeneralAntilles, nothing wrong with n00bs - even you were one once14:34
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* GeneralAntilles isn't ready to start in on this yet.
Jaffamacoute: since v0.0000001 - it was one of the original features and key design requirements. If it's not doing it for you, then something's b0rked.14:34
macoutethe url says it all: d25177BAD :)14:35
Jaffalcuk: it's a little rude for a newbie to PM someone asking for help (assuming that's what it is)14:35
JaffaGeneralAntilles: just ignore it14:35
macouteJaffa: do you need to click twice a file to get it running?14:35
lcukyes, especially when they are on a forum which should contain all the answers14:35
Jaffamacoute: in the web UI? no, they're normal links: click once, click "open", watch video14:36
macouteby checking logs ive discovered that first click starts the transcoding process and the other one starts playing on the file14:36
macouteJaffa: to me in the web ui i really need to... :/14:36
GeneralAntillesCopying the URL and pasting it into gmplayer works, too. ;)14:36
* GeneralAntilles really needs to figure out the dbus filehandling.14:36
macoutefor me: click once -> browser seems to be loading forever, click another time -> open -> video loads14:37
JaffaGeneralAntilles: heh14:37
lcukGeneralAntilles, on the pastebin, what happens if i click "report spam" ;)14:37
Jaffamacoute: using what browser and what OS version on the tablet, what Perl/OS version on the server?14:37
GeneralAntillesDon't have a clue, lcuk.14:37
macouteGeneralAntilles: how about the performance of gmplayer compared to original player?14:37
macouteThis is perl, v5.8.8 built for x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi14:37
GeneralAntillesmplayer > Media player14:37
GeneralAntillesIt's significantly better.14:37
macouteJaffa: and diablo builtin player+browser14:38
macouteGeneralAntilles: faster?14:38
GeneralAntillesIt'll play a lot more stuff.14:38
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Jaffamacoute: OK< I'll try and have a play this afternoon since I've got the same version of Perl/arch and tablet OS.14:39
GeneralAntilleslol . . .
macouteJaffa: n810?14:40
Jaffamacoute: yep, but h/w on the tablet side shouldn't really be a factor14:40
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macouteJaffa: yep. it shouldnt :)14:41
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lcukwicked! a "chinook diablo" is a composite rafting paddle14:44
lcuknokia told us they wouldn't send us up the creek without a paddle :D14:46
lcukis there an actual changelog for chinook->diablo (which was what i was hunting for)14:48
JaffaThere're package version comparisons of the SDK packages, but no actual proper changelog14:49
* Jaffa slaps lcuk for asking stoopid questions ;-)14:49
* GeneralAntilles seconds the slap.14:49
* lcuk blocks the slap and retaliates with a dangerous double intercontinental slap14:50
lcukjaffa, where would i find the sdk version log?14:50
Jaffamacoute: one click start just worked for me on stock diablo, clicking "open" when it asked.14:51
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lcukno fret, found it14:52
Jaffamacoute: hmm, but had an issue playing & stopping a BSG episode.14:52
* Jaffa has Sunday lunch to eat, a dishwasher to fix, mud-builder to improve but I'll also try and look at mediaserv with diablo14:53
GeneralAntillesCan I talk anybody into making this not suck yet?
lcukjaffa :) sounds like normal days for me14:54
JaffaOh, and Doctor Who to rewatch ;-)14:54
lcuklast week the washer decided to send a tidal wave across the kitchen14:54
macouteJaffa: oki, thanks14:56
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* aquatix misses canola215:29
GeneralAntillesInstall it?15:29
aquatixdoes the chinook version just work?15:31
GeneralAntillesJust enable Chinook Extras.15:32
GeneralAntillesAs I've said before, Diablo is 99% compatible with Chinook.15:32
aquatixi know15:32
aquatixbut as canola2 has several services, i wanted to play safe15:32
aquatixthanks for hint though :)15:33
macoutehow about canolas upnp-suppoty?15:35
macoutei see it has a plugin for that, but is it usable?15:35
GeneralAntillesIt's fine.15:35
GeneralAntillesWhy wouldn't it be?15:35
macouteGeneralAntilles: upnp is quite a mess15:35
macoutewith what servers are you using it?15:36
GeneralAntillesOf course, but the INdT don't tend to release things unless they work pretty well. ;)15:36
GeneralAntillesEyeConnect, here.15:36
GeneralAntillesBut others use FUPPES and MediaTomb15:36
GeneralAntillesand some Windows stuff that I don't remember.15:36
macouteok, fuppes is ok15:36
macoutedoes it work with video too?15:36
GeneralAntillesOf course15:36
macoutehmm, but iirc fuppes doesnt support transcoding15:37
GeneralAntillesOne of them will even transcode for you.15:37
GeneralAntillesMediaTombo, I guess.15:37
macouteoh it does15:37
macoutefuppes i mean15:37
macouteit was the only free one that does it15:37
macoutefor linux15:38
macoutesome did it only for audio15:38
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Kompo_Anybody else had issues with Diablo + N800 + WPA? After update my N800 refuses to connect, the connectivity icon just flashes for a long time.. Without wpa works fine. (Zyxel 660hw)16:51
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fnordianslipi just installed diablo and cloned to SD, and wifi with WPA seems ok.16:52
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Kompo_fnordianslip: yeah, as I would also expect.. well, had to downgrade back to chinook16:55
fnordianslipKompo_: strange. did you restore settings or manually enter the key?16:56
Kompo_fnordianslip: just a clean flash, no restores. must be something really trivial, maybe I try to reflash at some point16:57
fnordianslipKompo_: I've used both approaches with success, so should be no problems either way.  Good luck ;-)16:58
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wazdhey everybody :)17:42
wazdDoes anybody still facing Diablo crash with OMWeather?)17:45
* terbo tests out canola then updates to diablo ...17:45
RaytrayI have that when I try to go to settings.17:48
AstroKompo_: I'm not even seeing wifi networks with diablo :(17:50
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Kompo_Astro: hehe. Well I'm happy I'm not the only one :) Seems like the over-the-air update feature will be put to work soon17:52
Kompo_only one with wlan problems17:52
wazdRaytray, have you installed latest 0.20.5?17:52
andre___is there a bug filed already?17:52
RaytrayNot sure, let me check.17:52
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RaytrayOh, no I havn't heh.17:54
Kompo_Astro: Hmm. that was a bit illogical -- OTA updates need wlan connectivity :) :) :)17:54
Astroyesterday was one of the rare moments it worked17:54
AstroI updated17:54
Astrosince then no luck17:54
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AstroI don't think I'll ever buy Nokia again17:59
Astrotheir opensource is a bad joke17:59
Kompo_Astro: yeah, well, the earlier version still works and it's better supported currently. maybe first diablo problems will be fixed soon18:00
AstroI'm willing to investigate by myself18:01
Astrothat's why I bought a linux device18:02
lcukastro, which open source tablet are you going for next?18:02
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lcukat least for now im happy to consider the nokia a platform to run OSS apps in and im not so bothered by closed source18:02
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waz1hey lcuk)18:04
lcukhi waz18:04
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waz1ah, what the heck with my nick ><18:05
Jaffawaz1: wazd's still connected18:05
Astrolcuk: openmoko?18:06
forgeI wouldn't say that freerunner is a tablet18:07
lcukastro :) its not quite the same form factor :) but near enough to get you a gold star ;)18:08
lcukyou are right, if you're unhappy with nokia go to them18:08
AstroI'm very unhappy18:08
forgeHow come ?18:08
Astrocoz wifi doesn't work in 9 of 10 cases18:08
lcukin the situations where ive needed it its worked flawlessly18:08
forgeAstro, only on diablo or on every OS ?18:09
lcukbut obviously this is a case of YMHV18:09
Astroforge: the problems started with chinook18:09
Astrobefore it was fine18:09
forgeWhat HW ?18:09
lcukastro, you mean wifi was perfect on same hardware on os2007 and since 2008 has been released its gone downhill?  are you sure this isn't anecdotal since wifi wasn't so abundent and there were less none standards to adhere to?18:10
forgeHmh, well i haven't had any problems ever but i'm not using it that much anymore and i'm using n770 sooo18:10
lcukif infact its a breakage of the software stack perhaps you should see if theres specific bug reports about it and if anyone is pushing them18:11
Astrolcuk: pardon?18:11
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lcukok, you said it worked well before chinook18:11
AstroI opened the bug in february18:11
freelikegnujohnx: does Diablo's cx3110x driver have the wpa_suplicant patch?18:11
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lcukahhh right, whats happened with it, you got a link?18:12
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JaffaGah, can't scp things to now18:15
forgeAstro, i would imagine you have some silly hw failure18:15
forgeAnd it's not the sw's fault18:16
forgeI guess your warranty is over ?18:16
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Astrono, I bought the dev last november18:20
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forgeHmh, well i would try to get it changed then, my friend's n800 has worked pretty much flawlessly without any kind of wifi errors like you described18:23
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forgeAnd the behaviour might implicate that the wifi chip is somehow burnt/flawed or the antenna isn't connected properly or other stuff like that18:23
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forgeWhy it goes worse with Os upgrades i have no idea18:24
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Capn_FishStskeeps/JohnX: You guys here?18:29
Capn_FishStskeeps johnx18:30
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StskeepsCapn_Fish: i am18:40
Capn_FishI was just checking out your Debian wiki page18:40
Capn_FishIt looks nice. You say X still works, even with the latest updates?18:40
Stskeepswell i base it off a quite recent (as in a couple of days ago) sid install and a somewhat modified .deb johnx made18:41
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Stskeepssuch as it providing xserver-xorg instead and it worked fine for me18:41
Capn_FishThat's more recent than what broke my install, so I'll call that yes18:41
Capn_FishThat's more recent than what broke my install, so I'll call that yes18:41
Stskeepsit's quite a barebones system right now though - but X does work18:42
Stskeepshaven't added any Xsession things to the install right now18:42
Capn_FishBarebones is the way to go18:42
Capn_FishDo you need keymaps?18:42
Capn_FishI have some I could get to you18:42
Stskeepswell anything to get it to the level of the beta3 i guess18:42
Capn_FishBoth the "standard" one (Xmodmaps and keymap.maps) and customized ones18:42
Stskeepshaven't really looked at the Xmodmap stuff yet but i guess it's needed for a good user experience :)18:43
Capn_FishI also have an xbindkeysrc file that allows for right clicking18:43
StskeepsCapn_Fish: <- the xserver deb i use in the install18:43
Stskeepsthat sounds nice :)18:43
Capn_FishIs there some place you want me to put/send them?18:44
Capn_FishHeck, I just want a decent OS running on my N810 again!18:45
Stskeepswell the best thing would be constructing it as a package i guess - i haven't looked into how the xmodmap and xbindkeysrc stuff is set up in the beta318:45
Capn_FishI believe xmodmap is installed by default, but you have to install xbindkeys18:45
Stskeepsi think you could possibly upload them in bug tracker at
Stskeepsor feature requests18:46
Capn_FishThe way to go would probably to have packages like xmodmap-config and xbindkeys-config that put the files into /etc, then the user can copy them to ~/18:46
Capn_FishI can do that18:46
Stskeepswell, we plan on having a good installer that's flexible, so18:47
Stskeepsevery package installed is determined by a conf so18:47
Capn_FishIt looks like you've got a good start to that18:47
Capn_FishHave you tried WEP?18:47
Stskeepsi tried WPA-PSK2 and that worked18:47
Stskeepsso i'm going to assume WEP would work18:47
Capn_FishI hope so18:48
Stskeepsno clue though18:48
Capn_FishIt didn't for me on Beta318:48
Capn_Fishbut WPA2 AES did18:48
Capn_FishIt's odd...Maybe doing WEP through wpa_supplicant would be the way to go18:48
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Stskeepswell. the way i dealt with it in my setup is through debian /etc/network/interfaces.. i failed to get any wifi applets to wor18:49
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StskeepsNetworkManager insisted everything was a LEAP network :)18:49
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Capn_FishDo you have an N800 or an N810?18:50
Capn_FishSo keymaps aren't a big deal to you :)18:50
Stskeepswell right clicking is always a good thing18:51
Capn_FishI couldn't get middle clicking working, though18:51
Capn_FishWell, I could, but not at the same time as right18:51
Capn_FishI couldn't find two working key combos + screen tap18:51
Capn_FishOh, well. It's not a huge issue18:52
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Capn_FishWhat files do I need to download initially to install this?18:52
Stskeepsas in X or the debian?18:53
Capn_FishTo install Debian18:53
Stskeepsjust have a working root access on tablet and an internet connection.. maybe subversion to fetch down it18:53
Stskeepsin our final version it would give installer.tar.gz and then fetch dependancies18:54
Capn_Fishk18:54 much I need to do before starting :(18:54
Capn_FishI knew I shouldn't have installed Diablo18:54
Capn_FishSo I just SVN down the stuff, then run the scripts mentioned in the Wiki?18:55
Stskeepsaye. svn checkout svn:// , cd trunk/installer, ./debian-installer /where/your/ext2orext3SD-card-is CC  , where CC is country code of the ftp mirror you want to fetch from18:56
Capn_FishOh, another idea...Maybe the log daemons shouldn't be installed? Since we're running off of flash?18:56
Stskeepsit assumes the target is empty18:56
Capn_FishTHat's fine by me18:56
Stskeepswell, i have them on right now cos experiments went bad at first :)18:56
Capn_FishI assume jffs2 is OK?18:56
Stskeepsso i needed a way to diagnose errors18:56
Capn_FishYa, but for release....18:56
Stskeepsno clue18:56
Capn_Fishfair enough18:56
Stskeepsthink it should be okay18:56
Stskeepsi don't make any assumptions about the fs i think18:57
Capn_FishIt's like ext2 for flash IIRC18:57
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Capn_FishIt is a *NIX fs18:57
Capn_FishJust with wear-leveling/minimizing18:57
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Capn_FishGood for flash memory :)18:57
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Stskeeps./debian-installer gets the dependancies needed to run the installer and then runs the python installer in a screen session18:58
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Capn_Fishsoo I only need to run debian-installer?18:58
Stskeepsyep - assuming you have mounted the target filesystem18:59
Capn_FishMakes things easy!18:59
Stskeepsbeware you're ending with a barebones system with usb net, X started (no wm installed), and wifi if you adjust it in the tablet setup18:59
Capn_FishTHat's fine19:00
Capn_FishEven ideal19:00
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Capn_FishIt took time to remove all of the Xfce stuff :)19:00
Stskeepsoh, and leave it on charger. this stuff takes a long time19:00
Capn_FishDo I need to do the Bootstrapping/tablet support steps myself?19:00
Capn_FishThey're kind of in another section19:00
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Stskeepsnop, that's just describing what is done in installer19:01
Capn_FishAh, gotcha19:01
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sinakhello! How can I edit a picture in N800? I tried to open it with Sketch but it didn't manage to open it19:02
Capn_FishI will have to try this today19:02
Stskeepsand how the OS is started up19:02
Capn_FishYou know, it's nice having the rootfs on SD19:02
freelikegnuStskeeps: I ran debian on my n800 and WPA works well19:02
Stskeepsand if the installer fails prod me - i didn't install a fresh image after adding latest package19:02
Capn_FishMakes it easy to fix things you break19:02
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Stskeepsfreelikegnu: using what network configuration? /etc/network/interfaces?19:03
freelikegnuone thing that keeps me from using debian full time is powermanagement of the wifi19:03
Capn_Fishsinak: have you checked the repos for an image editing app? What filetype is it?19:03
sinakit is jpeg19:03
Stskeepsfreelikegnu: well, if any more details can be figured out about it it's always good19:03
Capn_Fishfreelikegnu: Doing an "iwconfig wlan0 power 1" doesn't work?19:04
Capn_Fishsinak: Well, there's always running GIMP in a Debian chroot :)19:04
freelikegnusts, I put my networks in a /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf and then run wpa_supplicant from /etc/network/interfaces19:04
Stskeepsfreelikegnu: k19:04
Capn_FishBut I'd check to see if there's a Maemo image editing app first19:04
Stskeepsfreelikegnu: same i did, sortof - latest debian has proper wpa_supplicant support for /etc/network/interfaces19:05
sinakok i'll check the repos :-)19:05
Capn_FishBest of luck19:05
freelikegnusomething like "pre-up wpa_supplicant -c /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf -iwlan0 -Dwext"19:05
freelikegnuoh be sure to add -B19:05
freelikegnufor daemon mode19:05
Capn_FishThat's kind of important :)19:05
freelikegnuthen "post-down killall wpa_supplicant"19:06
freelikegnukind of brute force, but hey19:06
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Capn_Fishnah, brute force would be kill -919:06
Capn_FishOf course, that would involve grepping and stuff to get the process ID19:07
Stskeepsor just going into /var/run/wpa_supplicant-wlan0 or something19:07
Capn_FishFair enough19:08
Capn_Fishcatting, then19:08
terboi second that emotion.19:08
Capn_FishHave you figured out how to control the power LEDs and/or keyboard backlight (I assume not on that one)?19:08
StskeepsCapn_Fish: well, i focused mostly on making a proper installer :) hope there'll be more people in on this to make some of the more user oriented things19:09
Capn_FishFair enough.19:09
Stskeepsmy goal was a proper barebones distro that is installed from the tablet instead of having to debootstrap it on desktop19:10
Capn_FishI looked at it, and there's nothing obvious in /proc or /sys19:10
Capn_Fishon Maemo, I mean19:10
Stskeepswith ability to extend and install whatever we want on it ;)19:10
Capn_FishSounds like you did a good job of it, too19:10
Capn_FishIt is much appreciated19:10
freelikegnuI played around with Ubuntus hildon and sugar desktops the other day19:11
freelikegnusugar really does not like being on 800x60019:12
Capn_FishThe new ubuntu-mobile or whatever they're calling it19:12
freelikegnuyeah ubuntu "MID"19:12
freelikegnuMID was neat19:12
Capn_FishDo you know where they stuck the source for that interface?19:12
freelikegnuturned my pc tablet into a giant n80019:12
RST38hheavy and power hungry?19:12
freelikegnuI think is universe?19:13
freelikegnulemme check19:13
Capn_FishIt's in the main feeds?19:13
Capn_Fish*slaps himself in the head*19:13
Capn_FishWhy didn't I think of that?19:13
freelikegnuyeah universe X1119:14
freelikegnulook for hildon-desktop meta package19:14
Capn_FishOr just the source packages :)19:15
Capn_Fishsome of the Zaurus Debian folks are looking to have it on their Zaurii, and I thought I'd try to build it19:15
freelikegnuor $ apt-cache search hildon dev19:15
freelikegnuyou'll prolly need some matchbox deb stuff too, hmm?19:16
Capn_FishI'm going adventuring, then (N810 root access, fanoush's bootloader, and Debian install)19:16
glass_freelikegnu: mid's are neat... but i'd like to see the day they're cheap19:17
Capn_FishWe'll see what it complains about19:17
freelikegnuan alternative hildon for n8xx would be nice :D19:17
Capn_FishCatch you all later19:17
Capn_Fishfreelikegnu: Or just a decent OS (Like Debian)19:17
freelikegnuglass_: n800 is pretty darn cheap19:17
freelikegnucya Capn_Fish19:17
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glass_freelikegnu: yes but it's not near the power of what a mid is supposed to pack19:19
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freelikegnuglass_: how is that?19:20
glass_freelikegnu: intel mids are x86 based, with 2-4 times memory of n800's19:21
JaffaAnd no more than 1/2 the battery life19:21
glass_and triple the price19:21
freelikegnuso today you can have a cheap mid, that is adequate19:22
sinaki want to write a message in a photo. How can i do that? (n800)19:22
glass_freelikegnu: ..point is, n800 is not a MID19:22
glass_as intel puts it19:22
sinaksketch couldn't open my photo19:22
glass_and as intel puts it is how ubuntu puts it19:23
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freelikegnuubuntu is also ported to hw other than x8619:23
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freelikegnuppc, spark, and now mips19:24
freelikegnuand while its great that intel and Canonical are chummy, all the better for everyone else19:26
freelikegnuwhatever puts more gnu in peoples hands is a GoodThing afaic19:27
glass_freelikegnu: yes, but it's aimed at beefier devices19:27
glass_and currently the pricepoint is way too high to put it into hands of people in large scale19:27
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freelikegnuI think thats rather short sighted, seeing as how I could run Ubuntu mid on a $100 pIII tablet19:29
freelikegnuso for me MID is an enabler, today19:30
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Jaffafreelikegnu: what PIII tablet costs $100?19:41
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freelikegnuI bought I couple Itronix touchscreen laptops for my kids for about $150 each19:47
freelikegnucurrently they urn XFCE19:48
freelikegnubut MID looks compelling19:48
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freelikegnusome of these older machines have basic 3d accelleration too19:49
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glass_used price is used..19:52
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wazddarn gprs...20:07
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RST38hAnybody else has 11-18MB browserd running AFTER MicroB has quit?20:14
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zapCan I save somehow the kernel before flashing a new one with 'flasher' ?20:16
zapjust in case my kernel won't boot :)20:16
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Atarii`zap i had the same though20:18
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Atarii`to go back to an original kernel, you can extract one from a fiasco image20:18
Atarii`using the linux flasher program20:18
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Capn_FishStskeeps: Still here?20:21
zapAtarii: cool, that worked20:22
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zapanybody knows which command line has kernel by default?20:24
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RST38hmoo, rm_you20:25
rm_youcluck, RST38h20:26
rm_youI've never been up this early...20:26
rm_youWhat happens? >_>20:26
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lcukoh shit, everyone: rm's here put away the cool stuff20:27
wazdi have 9.30 pm now)20:27
lcukerrr hi rm_you :S :D20:27
RST38hrm_you: nothing happens here20:27
RST38hsame people20:28
RST38hany time zone20:28
Capn_FishStskeeps: I'll take that as a no?20:28
RST38hIf you wish news, I can complain about Diablo icroB20:28
wazdlcuk,  soooo, visual impovement idea for your stars)20:28
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wazdsluggish "connectting..."20:29
StskeepsCapn_Fish: sorry, gf showing me pics of her diving classes20:29
Capn_FishI'm having issues with the install script20:30
Capn_FishIt says "failed to install deps. Please check your apt sources"20:30
wazdso, about stars, maybe you shoud make them black on spawn and then smoothly turn  them to white?)20:30
Capn_FishWhat source do I need to add that has Python, Wget, binutils, and subversion?20:30
StskeepsCapn_Fish: are the ones i have20:31
Stskeepsi'm guessing maemo extras20:32
Capn_FishI have that enabled...20:32
Stskeepsdiablo release though?20:32
Stskeepsi didn't test on diablo, didn't upgrade :P20:32
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StskeepsCapn_Fish: could i get your xmodmap and xbindkeys files you mentioned btw? just put them on or something20:34
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Capn_Fishhang on a tif20:35
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Capn_Fish xbindkeysrc20:36
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Stskeepsta, i'll just put them on wiki in planning stage package20:37
Stskeepsand that is based on n810 keyboard?20:37
Capn_Fish xmodmaps (look carefully)20:37
Capn_FishThey're missing the keys on the top (+/-, power, fullscreen)20:38
Capn_FishI'll get to it eventually20:38
zapAnybody has some good pointers on N810 boot process? I want to understand it in details20:38
Capn_Fish (same as for xmodmaps)20:39
Capn_FishXbindkeys needs 2 files, BTW20:39
Capn_Fishmouse-m and mouse-r20:39
Capn_FishGet them there20:40
pupnik_  Michael Penn - "It's a Long Way Down"20:40
pupnik_so good20:40
StskeepsCapn_Fish: the zdevil click thing?20:42
Capn_FishThere are two binaries in the package20:42
Capn_Fishmouse-m and mouse-r, which generate middle and right mouse clicks20:43
Stskeepssource is your mouseclick.tar.gz?20:43
Capn_FishKind of20:44
Capn_FishIt's likely my source for mouse-r20:44
Capn_FishI can't remmeber if my source is a regular click or not20:44
lcukwazd, i did that originally, but it doesnt look as good as you think it would.20:44
Capn_FishIt should be one variable that needs changing20:44
Stskeepsk - i'll just add sources and needed information to do the trick then20:46
lcukbut that *was* before i had sync lock, let me just try it again20:46
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Capn_Fishfair enough20:46
Capn_FishGot everything else?20:47
Stskeepsthe xmodmaps.. what are the benefits of those? N810 keyboard working or?20:48
Capn_FishTHe kb WORKS without them20:48
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Capn_Fishthe mappings are just off (no tab or /, kind of a pain on Linux)20:48
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Capn_FishNecessary for al FN key combos and some others20:48
Capn_Fishwonderful! :)20:50
RST38hgentlemen, could someboyd tell me what is the analog of bpf device in linux?20:51
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pupnikbtw RST38h did you ever find a high resolution timer on the OMAP2420 ?20:54
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pupniksomething like on the 80x8620:55
RST38hpupnik: I did not try - just using Linux usleep20:55
lcukhow high do you need pupnik?20:55
RST38husleep seems to work though20:55
RST38hIf I understand things correctly, a polite Unix-like OS should automatically make use of hires timer when you do stuff like nanosleep() etc20:56
StskeepsCapn_Fish: do you know if we have XKB support in X?20:57
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Capn_FishNo idea20:59
Stskeeps mentions doing this through Xmodmap (right click), just wondering if it would work21:00
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Capn_FishWell, check for xkb support with21:01
Capn_Fishxdpyinfo|grep XKEYBOARD21:01
sp3000Email Bugs related to the e-mail application.21:01
sp3000Modest Bugs related to Modest e-mail application21:01
sp3000I suppose the former should be tweaked so ...uh, or, something21:01
* sp3000 scratches head21:02
* sp3000 shrugs21:02
inzadd: "old'n'sucky"?21:02
StskeepsCapn_Fish: got any experience making debian packages?21:02
Capn_FishA little21:02
sp3000inz: yeah, but then I started thinking about how that actually adds value21:02
Capn_FishIPKs are the same, and I've made WAY too many of those21:02
Capn_FishDebs are a little more picky, but I'm OK with it21:03
sp3000maybe the Modest component should be merged into Email now that it's out21:03
sp3000in a default sense21:03
Stskeepswell, for the base packages we use a simplistic version, where we just do dpkg-deb --build21:03
Stskeepsas dpkg-buildpackage can't be done on tablet21:03
Stskeeps(in a decent way)21:04
sp3000since at this point using modest and filing bugs on it doesn't require knowing about its magical unicorn package name21:04
Capn_FishWhy can't dpkg-buildpackage be done on the tablet?21:04
* Stskeeps wonders idly if we do dpkg-deb on tablet or on chroot21:05
* sp3000 files a bug, that should poke the right bug people21:05
lcukStskeeps, :) thank you!  i do all my coding on tablet and had gotten to realising i couldnt get dpkg-buildpackage on easily but lack of knowledge left me without a method.21:05
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lcukat least now i know theres a way21:06
kkrustyisnt the Eclipse+ESbox video a bit too grainy?21:06
StskeepsCapn_Fish: well ok, we can prolly do it on the debian chroot, but it's a bit silly pulling in build-essential to a pure debian iamge :)21:06
Stskeepsif we want to compile something21:06
Stskeepsfor now our dpkg-deb method seems to work :P21:07
Stskeepsas we handwrite the control files and such21:07
Capn_FishFair enough21:07
Capn_FishI personally like having build tools on the device, though21:07
StskeepsCapn_Fish: could you look through the wiki page about the stuff we just discussed (xmodmap etc), and see if i did some major errors?21:07
Stskeepslcuk: well it requires hand-making the package but besides that21:08
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lcukStskeeps, you sure?  couldnt i configure and set it up once in vmware (the horror that it is) with full tools, then once all setup use -deb to rebuild the deb as required21:09
Capn_FishLooks fine to me. You may want to say where to put the files and how to activate them :)21:09
sp3000Bug 3344 Submitted - do something about Modest vs Email bugzilla components21:09
Capn_FishOtherwise it's all good21:09
sp3000why don't we have a bugzilla bot, still :)21:09
Stskeepslcuk: well i guess so21:10
* sp3000 doesn't have a 24/7 box to run one21:10
lcukeither way, now i know i can rebuild direct i can carry on coding happily21:10
StskeepsCapn_Fish: i'm thinking to switch instead of doing /home/user/.xsession in rc.local to /etc/X11/Xsession which then pulls in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ files.. where the xmodmap and xbindkeys stuff is activated21:10
StskeepsCapn_Fish: so we don't rely on X user being user21:10
Capn_Fishsounds good to me21:10
lcukthanks for the tip - even though you werent giving out advice :D21:11
Stskeepslcuk: hehe, np21:11
Stskeepslcuk: i found out scary things about debian i really didn't want to know while doing this stuff21:11
lcukyer i tend to agree, forgive my innocence but what is "this stuff" - i just came back from tea and saw your excellent comment21:12
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Capn_FishDebian on the NITs21:12
Stskeepslcuk: we're building a debian installer for the tablets21:12
Stskeepsthat is sane, and not a huge tar.gz21:12
lcuki dont think anyone that puts debian on NIT is sane :P21:13
Stskeepslcuk: hehe. it works pretty well so far21:13
Capn_FishStskeeps: Just to verify I did this right: I do "./debian-installer /media/mmc1 us" if I want to have my system's root to be /media/mmc1, right?21:14
lcukive heard good things about it tbh21:14
StskeepsCapn_Fish: aye, it'll put the debian installation in that directory21:14
Capn_Fishlcuk: You don't think Debian on the NITs is sane?!?!?21:14
Capn_FishI have doubts on you sanity now...21:15
lcukits ok, i have the same doubts21:15
Capn_FishSeriously, though, what's wrong with it? Maemo, to be brutally honost, sucks.21:15
lcukits the linux way to get linux on all devices, even those that already run it ;)21:15
Capn_FishAnd Debian is a great OS21:16
lcuki agree with that, hows the framebuffer on deb side?21:16
macouteCapn_Fish: i though have some concerns about debians performance on tablet21:16
Capn_FishIt works fine21:16
lcukfast or fine?21:16
macouteotherwise id have it already :)21:16
Capn_FishI don't know. I haven't played with it yet21:16
Capn_FishI just know it works21:16
Capn_Fishmacoute: It's got fine performance21:17
Cptnodegardwill future releases of apps be compatible with both chinook and diablo or just diablo?21:17
macouteCapn_Fish: so browser loads as fast as on maemo? (which is not fast enough, though :))21:18
lcukwell (not sure if you know) ive been writing some framebuffer code to try to get nice fast updates out of the nokia.  ive had some pondering about trying to create an x11 driver to talk to the lcd in a faster way.  the only problem is its a YUV mode I am using, so greyscale would end up being a really fast end mode21:18
Capn_FishI'd call it about even, perhaps a little slower. It renders at a good speed, though21:18
lcuk( i cant expect RGB images to be converted on the fly for every instance in every program, so hence thinking grey..)21:18
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Capn_FishThat's more than I know how to do21:19
sinakwhen i'm trying to save an image from sketch, it says Not enough space in target location. I'm sure i have a lot of free space.21:19
Capn_FishHave you checked with "df -h"?21:19
lcuksame here, its one of my less than sane ideas, but its plausable. i know linux can handle being placed on greyscale framebuffers quite easily21:19
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sinakCapn_Fish i have 400mb free space21:22
Capn_Fishhmm...I don't know then21:23
sinakis it possible to be a ram problem?21:23
Capn_FishStskeeps: You know what we really need....A high-end box running Qemu rebuilding all of the Debian packages optimized for the N8x021:23
Capn_Fishsinak: I think not21:23
Capn_FishThat would solve any speed issues!21:24
macouteCapn_Fish: we dont even need a high-end box21:26
macouteas we have a lot of low-end boxes available :)21:26
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sp3000hmm, I wonder if I can cc component pseudo-qa accounts21:27
Capn_Fishmacoute: true21:28
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Capn_FishBut the whole distributed computing thing seems like a pain to set up21:29
* Stskeeps goes wreck havoc on the x server init scripts for kicks.21:30
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* snowmoon looks at condor... 284 unclaimed CPU's21:31
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Capn_FishI'm off for now21:34
Capn_Fishcatch you later21:34
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inzStarted to play with cairo and came up with a "system monitor" (currently random data), anyone interested if I finish it:
RST38hbrontide: Mass-convert movies for N8x0 and put them online!21:36
aquatixis it just me, or isn't there a wireless-tools for chinook/diablo?21:38
Naviwhatcha lookin' for?21:39
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* RST38h imagines Carrion Comfort being made into a movie by a bunch of perverse, sadomasochistic, US-hating French and chuckles in delight21:40
Jaffainz: perty21:41
freelikegnulets hope Audrey doesnt speak much21:41
kuriiri_i just updated to diablo and now wayfinder says network error when trying to update maps21:42
kuriiri_any ideas?21:43
kkrustysomeone needs to make a better video of the ESBox+Eclipse Plugin demonstration.21:43
inzJaffa, I'll take that as a yes (and don't deny, or I'll never finish it)21:43
kuriiri_webbrowsing etc works fine21:43
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kkrustynot that Im needy, Can anyone actually see my messages?21:43
RST38hfreelikegnu: Given the storyline, she will not have a chance21:44
RST38h'cause most characters die really quick there21:44
melmothkkrusty: i do21:44
kkrustymelmoth: thanks.21:45
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melmothX-Fade: you here ?21:50
kkrustycool I just found a high res version of the video. Now I know why I was being ignored :)21:52
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crashanddie_if anyone is following the game, could you keep me posted about the score ?22:03
melmothwhot game ?22:05
melmothautobuiler 1/developper 0 :-)22:05
crashanddie_germany - spain22:05
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* Jaffa 's father-in-law is watching it down stairs22:12
Jaffainz: yeah, I'd have that running. Only needs axes and to be scalable and it'd do for a first release22:13
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zaphehe, 1:022:21
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JamieBennettanyone running a diablo scratchbox install?22:22
JamieBennettAre you using chinook in the sources.lst?22:23
JamieBennettor Diablo?22:23
zapSo far it's a fresh install and everything is by default22:23
zaplet me look at sounrces.lst22:23
* zap booting ubuntu in kvm22:24
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zapdeb diablo/sdk free non-free22:25
zapand so on22:25
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zapalso diablo/tools22:26
JamieBennettah, thanks, can seem to install some of the gtk bits22:26
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JamieBennettimport gtk is not finding a module named gtk :(22:28
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JamieBennettzap Can you 'import gtk' from a python shell and see if it works for you?22:32
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brontideAny gtk experts?  why would a function work normally when invoked via __init__() or from an event dispatch, but fail miserably from idle_add?22:40
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brontideI've tried both gobject.idle_add and gtk.idle_add and they both hang.  I think it's only when a dialog is shown.  dialog.hide doesn't seem to do anything22:41
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acydlordhmm, is $99 a month worth 20mb fiber internets?22:50
zapJamieBennett: import gtk -> no module named gtk22:50
terboacydlord: hmmm.....22:50
Jaffaacydlord: 20MB, or 20Mb?22:51
JamieBennettUmm, me things something isn't quite right with diablo just yet22:51
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brontidezap: Nokia-N810-23-14:/usr/local/bin# dpkg --list | grep python2.5-gtk22:51
brontideii  python2.5-gtk2                                   2.12.1-1osso3                        Python bindings for the GTK+ widget set22:51
acydlordi gotta cal them tomorrow and fing out about caps and up speeds22:51
JaffaAnd, presumably, given it's fiber(sic) you're pretty much guaranteed to actually *get* 20Mbps, unlike DSL.22:52
zapbrontide: that's on diablo SDK?22:52
terbostatic ip/servers? it all depends on your need for speed, man22:52
brontidenot SDK22:52
zapDiablo on N810?22:52
* Jaffa would be tempted. Currently paying around $50p.m. for "up to 24Mbps" ADSL2. But so far away from the exchange I actually get about 3.522:52
zapwell, we're talking about SDK22:52
JamieBennettbrontide: nothing for the dpkg command, not installed22:52
acydlordthey also have a 12Mb fiber package for 46 a month22:52
brontideI'll assume you've tried apt-get'ing it22:53
zapapt-cache search python does'nt reveal anything gtk-related22:53
JamieBennettof course22:53
JamieBennettzap: indeed22:53
brontideIsn't this just like nokia... wait wait wait.. quick it's out now we have to catch up22:53
brontideyou would have though they would have these things rebuilt before the launch22:54
JamieBennettbrontide: yeah and the fact that we as developers are left to twiddle our thumbs until Nokia decide to fix the problem22:54
acydlordthose are all community added btw22:54
zapJamieBennett: I think you can just add chinook repos to your sdk and use pygtk from there22:54
JamieBennettzap: not ideal but its the only way at the moment I think22:55
acydlordyou can22:55
TenkawaAnyone else having problems with omweather crashing in diablo when you try to open settings?22:55
zaphmm, I have read somewhere Diablo added suspend-to-ram functionality22:56
zapbut I don't see anything new in the power menu22:56
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acydlordTenkawa, mine crashed hildon-desk when i tried to access the settings with apt-worker open22:56
acydlordi'm going to try again in a sec after a reboot22:57
Tenkawaacydlord: interesting..22:57
Tenkawazap: that would kinda be cool22:57
zapon all Russian maemo-related site the article about Diablo release mention this22:58
Tenkawayeah I havent seen it either in the menus22:58
acydlordTenkawa, yep, settings crashes my dekstop completely22:58
Tenkawaoh wow its pouring outside22:59
Tenkawaacydlord: yeah same here.. bummer22:59
Tenkawapidgin crashes status bar when I try to un-minimize it too22:59
acydlordi didnt install pidgin this time, just throwing all my accounts in the default messenger23:00
Tenkawamaybe I should try that instead23:00
lbthmm, in a C++ member, I set a private variable, then trigger a signal. In the signal listeners, they access the private variable through an accessor - and it's not updated.... why?23:00
acydlordwhich repo is omweather in again?23:01
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zapsuspend-to-ram was a devel feature :)23:03
Tenkawaaol im is jabber based right?23:03
acydlordnope, oscar23:04
acydlordyou probably need the addons for the rest of the protocols23:04
lcuklbt, something up with your copy constructor for sState?23:04
acydlorddistro = chinook23:04
acydlordcomponents = haze salut idle23:05
zapyou can easily use icq/aol via any jabber->icq gateway23:05
zaplike I do :)23:05
Tenkawaacydlord: thanks23:05
acydlordzap, that makes it messy to track who's online if you have large lists23:06
zapif you have large lists, you have large lists and that doesn't depend on the protocol23:06
acydlordwhenever i tried that with jabber transports it would only show who was online on the jabber account23:07
lbtsState is typedef enum sState_ {A,B,C} sState;23:07
zapacydlord: I don't understand23:07
zapjabber->icq gateway worked always fine for me, you see icq users like regular jabber users, almost no difference23:08
acydlordit showed me status for people using jabber protocol, but for all the others it showed them as always offline23:08
lcuklbt, have you tried doing the debug after you change but before you emit23:08
lbtlcuk: nah, it's something else - state seems to have local scope...23:08
Tenkawaacydlord: know what the package name is?23:08
zapacydlord: I guess you haven't registered with the JIT gateway, you must give it your ICQ UIN/password so that it can log into AOL for you23:09
lcuklbt, its not that local - its certainly declared outside the method you pastebinned23:09
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Tenkawaacydlord: nm.. figured out my prob23:09
lbtprivate class member variable...23:09
Tenkawamy repo entry is broke23:09
lbtsState             state ;23:10
acydlordi have haze, salut, and bonjour support added to the default chat client, so that keeps me pretty much covered23:10
lcukcould any of your callbacks be forcing it back (or inside the emit_change)23:10
Tenkawadamn typo23:10
lbtnope - accessor access only23:10
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lbtI just wondered if *somehow* the class variable wasn't updated until the method exited23:11
lbtwhich sounded *wrong*23:11
lcukso nothing else in your class touches state?23:11
lbtbut I'm pulling hair at the moment - I'm going to have to run gdb soon..!23:11
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lbt(but it screams so I'd see that)23:12
lbtand it puts out '0' always...23:13
lcukadd another log entry above the emit23:13
kkrustydo breakpoints work in ESBox? yes/no23:13
acydlordugh, i need to go take a shower23:13
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eocanhadoes diablo extras upload work the same way than chinook extras upload?23:17
eocanhaI'm trying to upload my package and I'm getting scp errors:23:18
eocanhaUploading to diablo-extras (via scp to garage):23:18
eocanhaPermission denied (publickey,keyboard-interactive).23:18
eocanhalost connection23:18
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Saviqguys what's new in roadmap 1.1.0j-7 today?23:19
lbtlcuk: nah, something else is spooky:
lbtthe output is 2 calls - it's getting set to 0 somehow...23:20
lcukreset more than likely, sounds like your object is being recreated23:23
lcukie calling the method on a new instance each time23:23
lbtThat's what I thought - so the constructor screams on creation so I'd see that23:23
lbthmm, no ddd in the scratchbox23:23
lcukyou sure the constructor you think you are calling is the one its using23:24
lcukie, have you got a no param constructor which is spraypainted and another with optional arguments which is silent23:24
melmotheocanha: no, it doesnt23:24
lbtgood point - will check...23:25
melmotheocanha: you have to use the autobuilder to put them in extras-devel23:25
melmothand then, if they build ok (good luck :-) ) push them to extras23:25
lbtI did have - I wasn't using it ;)23:26
zapAre there any Diablo repositories? Or should I use chinook repos, including extras?23:29
JamieBennettchinook at the moment until its sorted out23:29
zapeven no extras?23:30
Saviquse chinook23:30
JamieBennettzap: as was hinted earlier, Nokia has serious timing issues it seems, getting everything working on release day (or week) was not their priority!23:31
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RST38hHeh, looks like well-intentioned idea of herding everyone through autobuilder messed things up for everybody...23:45
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lbtlcuk - build dependencies on .h file was wrong. I think some class files weren't rebuilt and were accessing bad memory. Of course, now I've hacked it to buggery...23:51
lcukmake clean; make :)23:51
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lbthmm, nope - maybe I spoke too soon...23:52
lcukis the class small and encapulated or does it have a shedload of deps?23:52
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acydlordwell thats the first time x-chat ever completely froze up on me23:53
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lcukif its small enough pastebin it and ill see if i can replicate23:56
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lbtok - just changed from a typedef enum to a simple int and #defines....23:56
* sinak laterz23:57
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