IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2008-06-29

mysc	272 people and no one can help?	00:00
wazd	well, I can't in fact, sorry :( I'm the worst technican in whole maemo community :)	00:01
wazd	Do you have Diablo or 2008?	00:03
mysc	can you see if your dmesg has multiple voltage setting lines?	00:03
mysc	os2008	00:03
rm_you	mysc: mine always has	00:04
rm_you	mysc: i think they all do... I'm not aware that it matters	00:05
rm_you	it's just one of those things that it does	00:05
mysc	ok, cause i recently dropped it and wanted to know if i screwed up some voltage regulator	00:05
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GAN800	Jaffa, the cite plugin isn't installed. I filled a bug, but I think it may have been lost in the chatter.	00:08
Jaffa	GAN800: ah, right	00:08
GAN800	mediawiki appears to be plugin hell. :D	00:08
Jaffa	:)	00:09
Jaffa	I've seen lots of software like this: it can do so much, it can't do anything.	00:10
* Jaffa votes, ups priority a little		00:11
Jaffa	Nah, I'll leave "low"	00:12
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mysc	any hw diagnostic app for os08?	00:13
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rm_you	mysc: is anything visibly wrong with it?	00:15
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rm_you	mysc: has it been acting funny?	00:16
rm_you	mysc: lots of people have dropped them, it doesnt really do much unless you THREW IT at the ground, from like 15+feet	00:16
rm_you	I wouldn't worry about it unless it started acting funny	00:16
Jaffa	NAFAIK	00:16
mysc	rm_you thanks for the encouragement, nothing acting funny, no physical damage to exterior, fell about 1.5 meters onto a carpet	00:21
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Veggen	there. a 4.1 SDK installed.	00:22
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Veggen	(had forgotten what trick I used to get it to run under amd64, and since I hadn't actually used it since I installed it on this box in may, I decided to scratch and reinstall rather than upgrade)	00:23
rm_you	mysc: lol, nothing at all to worry about... the device is solid state :) no moving parts to break	00:26
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GeneralAntilles	Anybody against deleting this? https://wiki.maemo.org/Getting_started_with_Sardine	00:27
rm_you	lol	00:27
lcuk	as long as you replace it with https://wiki.maemo.org/Getting_started_with_Haddock	00:27
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lcuk	GeneralAntilles, sardine is dead. marius gave a eulogy in dev ml last week.	00:28
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, I know. ;)	00:28
mysc	heh rm_your, i'm ocd yes i am, yes i am	00:28
mysc	:>	00:29
lcuk	rm_you, actually, there are moving parts inside this device which can be severly effected by a fall	00:29
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lcuk	touchscreen has 2 layers with a small gap in the centre, and the 810 keyboard slide unit	00:30
GeneralAntilles	Those don't qualify as "moving parts"	00:30
lcuk	well if they get bent they wont move properly	00:30
lcuk	hence "breaking" your machine	00:31
GeneralAntilles	Sure, but they aren't "moving parts". A hard drive is a "moving part". :P	00:31
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: nuke with extreme prejudice	00:31
lcuk	so long, and thanks for all the fish	00:32
GeneralAntilles	Done.	00:32
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mysc	GA, so as long as touchscreen works after fall you'd say coast is clear	00:33
GeneralAntilles	Unless something isn't working. . . .	00:33
rm_you	lol\	00:33
lcuk	mysc, reading your scrollback, do you know if the messages occured before the drop?	00:34
mysc	everything seems to be working except that voltage shit in dmesg, rmyou said this is always there.	00:34
mysc	i don't recall dmesg output before the fall	00:34
derf	I've dropped my N800 a number of times, on hard surfaces.	00:34
derf	Still works for me.	00:34
lcuk	n810: OMG I've fallen off a table	00:35
lcuk	n810: Deploying thumb keyboard	00:35
lcuk	n810: Starting Map	00:35
lcuk	n810: This is gonna hurt	00:35
lcuk	n810: ouch!	00:35
mysc	ok, i am going to test 3 meters now and no carpet and run dmesg again (j/k)	00:36
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mysc	is there any ways to change the "radius" that maemo-mapper uses when you dl maps around your gps'd location? it seems to get a few tiles in each direction. i guess i could do area and then i'd need the coords of top-left and bottom-right (any trick on that?)	00:37
derf	mysc: It pulls the coords from the area you're currently looking at.	00:38
mysc	yes, but it only dl's a certain radius around that location. i want to extend that a bit	00:38
derf	And recent versions do have a slider somewhere that lets you set how many extra maps it gets.	00:38
derf	mysc: No, I mean the "Area" tab pulls the coords from what you're currently looking at.	00:39
mysc	yeah, but how do i expand that "area"	00:39
derf	Zoom out.	00:39
mysc	that hasn't worked for me.	00:39
mysc	will try again.	00:39
derf	You still have to tell it to download the zoom levels you actually want.	00:40
mysc	yeah, i'm giving it zoom level 1	00:40
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Jaffa	Hmm, on the maemo summit agenda: "What Maemo users want" by Reggie and Krisse	00:47
GeneralAntilles	Should be interesting	00:48
GeneralAntilles	sjgadsby, you seriously want me to use rtcomm's IRC component to test this? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3334 :P	00:50
GeneralAntilles	Anybody using rtcomm and IRC in Diablo?	00:50
GeneralAntilles	rm_you, ping.	00:52
mysc	derf, was just being dumb about things, it works fine	00:54
derf	Hooray.	00:55
* mysc does the macarena h0h0		00:56
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rm_you	GeneralAntilles: pong	00:58
GeneralAntilles	Login to the wiki and move this to your userspace. https://wiki.maemo.org/User:Generalantilles/rm_you	01:00
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: you can't do it?	01:00
GeneralAntilles	You, apparently, don't exist yet.	01:01
rm_you	...	01:01
rm_you	wtf?	01:01
rm_you	did my account get deleted?	01:01
GeneralAntilles	No	01:02
GeneralAntilles	Just login and move it.	01:02
GeneralAntilles	Cut'n'paste job.	01:02
GeneralAntilles	User:Rm_you	01:02
rm_you	i can't log in	01:02
GeneralAntilles	Not article Rm_you	01:02
GeneralAntilles	Use the Garage information?	01:02
rm_you	Login error:	01:02
rm_you	There is no user by the name "rm_you". Check your spelling.	01:02
n800m	i'd try rm_me	01:03
derf	n800m: I think someone did.	01:03
rm_you	and I can't find the registration?	01:03
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GeneralAntilles	It uses the garage accounts.	01:04
rm_you	...	01:04
rm_you	wtf	01:04
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GeneralAntilles	https://garage.maemo.org/account/register.php	01:04
rm_you	...	01:04
rm_you	i have a garage account, thank you	01:04
GeneralAntilles	Try rmyou maybe?	01:04
rm_you	nope	01:05
GeneralAntilles	Hrm, bug maybe. . . .	01:05
rm_you	the whole maemo system hates me	01:05
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, ping.	01:05
rm_you	first it wouldn't let me use my SVN	01:05
rm_you	now this <_<	01:06
practisevoodoo	has anyone had any luck coding with PyBluez on the maemo? my progs run fine but it cant actually find any devices	01:06
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Toba_	is it possible to take an image of the internal flash in my n810? I know it's easy to flash, but I'd like to be able to undo exactly the flash/upgrade process	01:11
Grackle	There is probably a way to do that, but it is not possible with the flasher utility. The easiest way to do that sort of thing would be to install to and boot from a system located on MMC, which you periodically back up using dd or somesuch.	01:15
Grackle	That is the method that I use.	01:16
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sjgadsby	GeneralAntilles: Yep. I found that bug just to force you to use RTCOMM for IRC. grin	01:19
rm_you	X-Fade: ping	01:19
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mysc	is everything flashed from nokia bin put in: /dev/mtdblock0 ?	01:21
mysc	if so, one might consider dd if=/dev/mtdblock0 of=file.bin	01:21
GeneralAntilles	mtdblock4 is rootfs	01:22
mysc	were i to do dd if=/dev/mtdblock4 of=backup.bin and diff backup.bin $original_nokia.bin, would i get same file?	01:26
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Grackle	mysc, hmm, I was wondering if something like that might work. Try it and see..	01:27
mysc	Grackle, yes, i was thinking out loud based on your and Toba's Q	01:29
mysc	but i don't know how nokia's flasher writes the bin (i.e. to what devices)	01:29
Grackle	Well you can use -r to write to the rootfs, which GA says is mtdblock4.	01:31
GeneralAntilles	Well, -r will just flash the rootfs	01:31
GeneralAntilles	But doesn't really let you write to it directly, per se.	01:31
Grackle	Are you just making a semantic argument or are you saying that won't work in this context?	01:36
GeneralAntilles	Semantic argument	01:37
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Grackle	Okay.	01:38
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lbt	how does the flasher access the flash area? Is it via a kernel API?	01:41
lbt	I have a car stereo (empeg) that runs linux. Someone hacked the kernel to provide a /proc/flash which you could copy a file to and that would then be flashed.	01:42
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lbt	No need for a seperate flasher tool; just scp (or putty).	01:43
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GeneralAntilles	Well, you can put info onto the flash just fine with mtdblock tools	01:43
GeneralAntilles	see fanoush's initfs flasher	01:43
GeneralAntilles	More: http://www.nopcode.org/0xFFFF/	01:44
lbt	OK - just random thoughts really :)	01:44
GeneralAntilles	The NOLO is involved with flashing.	01:44
GeneralAntilles	Over USB	01:44
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lbt	thanks GeneralAntilles - makes sense - the mtd stuff is similar to what I meant (same goal).	01:52
lbt	OK - enough for tonight.... g'night all...	01:53
lcuk	gnite lbt	01:53
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kkrusty	what does this mean while building in scratchbox? sbox-i686-linux-g++: No such file or directory	02:10
kkrusty	Im using the VM appliance by the way	02:10
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* timelyx sighs		02:24
timelyx	another reason i want planet.maemo.org not to be a redirect:	02:24
timelyx	the ability to whitelist or blacklist scripts from it independently of maemo.org	02:25
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nikosapi	hello, is there a way to use a vpn on OS2008?	02:28
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timelyx	yes	02:28
nikosapi	o rly?	02:29
nikosapi	is it relatively simple?	02:30
kkrusty	I have an app running in full screen in xephyr/scratchbox. How do I close it?	02:34
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kkrusty	anyone?	02:36
timelyx	it's a simple google search away ... yes	02:36
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timelyx	GAN800: i'd have loved to know diablo was coming so i could have written relnotes..	02:38
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GeneralAntilles	How're they coming?	02:38
GeneralAntilles	Hey, guenther.	02:38
timelyx	i'm starving and days behind on scrollback.. i'll worry about them in a few (10?)hrs :)	02:38
timelyx	i should be ready to ask for help in 12-16hrs :)	02:39
guenther	heya GeneralAntilles	02:39
timelyx	Jaffa: it's technically possible to rename sbox targets. i doubt there's a ui for it :)	02:39
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guenther	Fixed your typo bug. ;)	02:39
GeneralAntilles	Hehe, thanks!	02:40
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gentooer	i have the customized high speed kernel installed on an ext2 partition on my internal SD card.. will upgrading to diablo be a problem?	02:41
kkrusty	or am I expected to kill the process?	02:41
guenther	GeneralAntilles: Like the changes to bugzilla?	02:42
GeneralAntilles	Yes, it looks really nice.	02:43
guenther	Did you have a look at planet already? ;)	02:43
andre__	guenther: thanks, honey! ;-))	02:43
* guenther happy :-)		02:43
acydlord	anyone tried the adobe air for linux alpha yet?	02:43
guenther	my pleasure, andre__	02:43
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GeneralAntilles	Nope, didn't see the blog post yet.	02:44
* kkrusty thinks that its not a good time to ask for help		02:46
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timelyx	guenther: what did you do to bugzilla?	02:50
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guenther	timelyx: Improvements. :)	02:51
timelyx	please clarify	02:51
timelyx	most "improvements" i've heard of relating to bugzilla are merely bugs	02:51
guenther	https://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/	02:51
timelyx	(i'm used to custom hacks which were requested by PHBs)	02:51
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guenther	Some template nicening.	02:52
guenther	And implemented bug 2035. Just as you wanted yourself. ;)	02:52
timelyx	"Waiting for maemo.org..."	02:52
timelyx	oh brother	02:53
timelyx	you did me no favors	02:53
timelyx	i'm going to demand that you answer all my bugmail in the future	02:53
guenther	huh?	02:53
timelyx	i've already gotten bad mail because of your change	02:53
timelyx	ask andre__	02:53
guenther	Come on, if you're talking to me -- talk to me.	02:54
timelyx	i'm a few days in scrollback. i've already sent andre cc's on the mail	02:54
timelyx	i'll forward them to you when i exit scrollback	02:54
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timelyx	but the short of it is that @bmo we have a "no obligation" note	02:54
timelyx	and you seem to have lost that	02:55
timelyx	so now i have a "customer" saying "shouldn't you be nicer, aren't i paying your salary?"	02:55
timelyx	i should be nice and delete myself from bugs.maemo.org. and i told him as much.	02:55
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Robot101	this bug must be marked as PRE_SMOKED before you can tag it BONGHITS and accepted by the QA contact into SMOKED before being reassigned to the tester and marked as RELEASED by the first born son of your line manager	02:55
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guenther	timelyx: Don't think I get you...	02:56
Robot101	and you must write Fixed into you changelog, not fixed	02:56
Robot101	or closes, like everyone else :P	02:56
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timelyx	guenther: either wait for andre__ to forward the mail, or wait for me to exit scrollback	02:56
andre__	timelyx, read zour mail, yupp. that's life, you will have to deal with that	02:56
timelyx	either way, take my comment as an advance note that you've hurt me	02:56
timelyx	and i'm quite likely to leave bugzilla	02:56
timelyx	gan and others can point out that i've left maemo-devel	02:57
guenther	Are you talking about the group membership?	02:57
guenther	I did not set that bit.	02:57
andre__	but in general, people stating "i pay you" are very strange...	02:57
guenther	btw, see my last comment	02:57
guenther	If you want to participate as a private, not affiliated user, there is nothing that holds you back.	02:58
guenther	SO what is this about?	02:58
timelyx	GeneralAntilles: the internal bugzilla has a policy of not using FIXED on average	02:59
timelyx	hence we use things like ALREADYFIXED	02:59
andre__	well, if you want to be considered "private" we can just remove the group bit	02:59
timelyx	which are really an alias for WORKSFORME, but WORKSFORME is banned (policy)	02:59
timelyx	lcuk: note that it resembles the debian approach to bugs	03:00
timelyx	you take a list of bugs that might or might not be resolved by shipping a "release"	03:00
timelyx	and you mass change them w/ some random resolution	03:00
Robot101	and INVALID is equivalent to insulting the reporter's mother, so it needs to be re-opened by the error manager and closed with a different more mutually acceptable resolution	03:00
timelyx	Robot101++	03:01
gentooer	anyone using the modified initfs with Diablo?	03:01
guenther	timelyx: So you want that bit removed for your personal address?	03:02
GeneralAntilles	Lots of people, gentooer.	03:02
timelyx	guenther: please	03:02
Robot101	its OK though, the bugzilla hacks still don't match the bug procedure, so you can violate the procedure by just assigning the bugs back to people, and they just disappear off everyone's graphs. its great.	03:02
GeneralAntilles	fanoush updated the flasher a while ago.	03:02
guenther	timelyx: Consider it done	03:02
timelyx	if i want to comment from a nokia address, i'll do so	03:02
guenther	Hey, I did not set that bit.	03:02
timelyx	however the likelihood of me ever wanting to do that is infinitesimally small	03:03
guenther	And if I remember correctly, it might have been you actually. ;-)	03:03
gentooer	GeneralAntilles, if i'm upgrading to Diablo can I just flash it and the modified initfs will still work?	03:03
GeneralAntilles	Go grab fanoush's updated flasher and re-run it.	03:03
timelyx	Jaffa: the ctrl-e thing was really annoying (find)	03:04
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gentooer	but i boot off my SD card.. won't the Diablo update install everything on the internal flash memory?	03:04
GeneralAntilles	gentooer, no, you can't flash the rootfs directly to the card.	03:05
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gentooer	ok.. guess i'll have to copy it all over again then	03:05
GeneralAntilles	Flashing Diablo wont upgrade your SD install.	03:05
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GeneralAntilles	Assuming I read you correctly, the procedure you want is 1. Flash Diablo, 2. Setup the bootmenu.conf (or use an old one) and flash fanoush's new initfs, 3. Get Diablo set up how you want, 4. Overwrite it over your SD partition, and 5. Boot from your new Diablo SD install.	03:06
timelyx	GAN800 / rm_you: 3326 was something someone changed	03:07
gentooer	GeneralAntilles, that sounds about right, thanks for explaining :)	03:07
timelyx	it bit me as i was trying to add new garage repos	03:07
GeneralAntilles	Thanks for reminding me, gentooer. I need to do that and add my custom boot images again. ;0	03:08
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lcuk	~lart harddrives	03:18
* infobot brandishes Excalibur! "With this sword, I vanquish thee, harddrives!" and lops off harddrives's head		03:18
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\|penguinbait\|	anyone have android on 810 working?	03:38
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timelyx	derf: it's ok, the supreme court declared the gun ban unconstitutional	03:47
timelyx	so now the guns are legal :)	03:47
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derf	timelyx: Actually, not quite yet they aren't.	03:48
summatusmentis	lcuk: agreed... just had a second one die	03:48
derf	They've got a couple of weeks to figure out how to deal with that.	03:48
summatusmentis	supreme court just declared that the first amendment right applied to individuals, right?	03:48
lcuk	well thankfully mine isn't quite dead. it was just resting	03:49
summatusmentis	mine was making cliking noises, and d couldn't be fond to mount	03:49
\|penguinbait\|	anyone have android on 810 working?	03:49
summatusmentis	there's a video of it, iirc	03:49
lcuk	summatusmentis, ive had my first bsod ever in windows xp tonight!	03:51
summatusmentis	lcuk: I don't use window :)	03:52
summatusmentis	windows*	03:52
summatusmentis	but congratulations, i suppose	03:52
lcuk	well without your harddrive you dont use anything :P	03:52
summatusmentis	lol, the APple store fixed it	03:52
summatusmentis	but my backups are at home, and I'm not :-/	03:53
gentooer	i just tried reinstalling openssh from the maemo site after upgrading to Diablo and it says "Application package not found" does that mean it's not compatible with Diablo or is it just broken?	03:53
lcuk	summatusmentis, ouch, so they just replaced the drive	03:54
summatusmentis	yeah, it was under warranty	03:54
summatusmentis	this is the second HD I've had die within the first year of having this	03:54
GeneralAntilles	gentooer, it's not in Diable Extras yet.	03:54
lcuk	i suppose its better than a kick in the teeth, but data is more important than physical, at least you have backups	03:55
GeneralAntilles	Duplicate the maemo Extras repository in application manager and add chinook to the distribution field.	03:55
summatusmentis	lcuk: I do, except I just left for vacation yesterday rolls eyes	03:55
gentooer	ok thanks.. still don't really understand how these repos work..	03:55
lcuk	facepalm	03:56
lcuk	anyway, now its working again, im gonna sleep	03:57
lcuk	gnite	03:57
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GeneralAntilles	gentooer, the .installs on maemo.org have a blank distribution field (for Extras, anyway), which defaults to whatever the current distribution you're using is (for you, diablo), but the Diablo area of Extras hasn't yet been populated (packages are being run through the autobuilder, should be mostly worked out in a few weeks), so the .install tells Application manager that you want to install the openssh package from Extras,	03:59
GeneralAntilles	Chinook packages are basically 99% compatible with Diablo	03:59
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GeneralAntilles	so the stop-gap solution until Diablo Extras is populated is to simply add Chinook Extras to your repository list.	04:00
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gentooer	ah wow thanks	04:01
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gentooer	ah that feels better.. can't have a linux install without ssh access :)	04:04
timelyx	andre__: i'd have put 3330 in Misdirected:Nokia :)	04:04
andre__	ah, that's good. need to realize that there's something like "misdirected". though it's ugly, here it fits	04:05
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GeneralAntilles	I was gonna do that when I saw, but couldn't find it. :(	04:06
GeneralAntilles	s/saw/saw it/	04:06
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: I was gonna do that when I saw it, but couldn't find it. :(	04:06
timelyx	GeneralAntilles: you should practice cutting bugzilla url length	04:07
GeneralAntilles	tinyurl?	04:08
timeless	https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=VERIFIED&bug_status=CLOSED&field-1-0-0=target_milestone&field-1-1-0=bug_status&field0-0-0=noop&keywords	04:09
timelyx	gah!	04:10
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timelyx	basically anything that is x=& can be replaced by &	04:10
timelyx	and things which rely on pairs for which you've deleted the pair	04:14
GeneralAntilles	So, the 4.1 bug list should be something like: https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&target_milestone=4.1&bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=VERIFIED&bug_status=CLOSED ?	04:16
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benh	ah cool, AGPS helper, rocks	04:21
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* benh still needs to improve the GUI of bluetooth pan ...		04:22
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benh	crao	04:25
benh	martin never commited my updates	04:25
benh	nor did a release	04:25
benh	oh well, I'll add some more stuffs and we'll see	04:25
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* timelyx reads the troll conversation from n days ago w/ interest		04:34
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timelyx	gourdin: fwiw, everyone can sound rude. i often sound rude.	04:35
timelyx	in reading what you read, it sounded pretty bad... but i'm glad to see you've stayed	04:36
timelyx	and hope that your contributions will grow :)	04:36
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* timelyx wonders why crashanddie wrote (i ? i : 0)		04:38
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timelyx	andre__: fwiw, guenther "fixed" my account, so hopefully that part will go away	04:46
guenther	I believe he knows that already. ;)	04:47
timelyx	derf: ah, i haven't read wpost about it yet. i'm in .fi, so i only get an audio headline	04:48
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andre__	yupp :-)	04:49
* timelyx exits scrollback		04:49
Raytray	Welcome back to the present.	04:49
rm_you	timelyx: ?	04:49
rm_you	timelyx> GAN800 / rm_you: 3326 was something someone changed	04:49
GeneralAntilles	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3326	04:50
rm_you	o	04:51
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andre__	isn't 3326 a garage bug then and not a maemo bugzilla issue?	04:56
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timeless	gah, it's 8 til 5 and they close at 5. but they aren't open	04:57
GeneralAntilles	andre__, garage is a website component.	04:58
timeless	how's that for service	04:58
andre__	uargh. confusion. okay...	04:59
GeneralAntilles	the bug is in Garage itself.	04:59
timeless	anyway, is there a paln for abandonnigng the garage tracker?	04:59
timeless	or is it still a proposal?	04:59
GeneralAntilles	Proposal	04:59
timeless	where do i isgn?	04:59
GeneralAntilles	The was a planet entry, there's a -developers thread and there's an itT thread.	05:00
andre__	heh. i sent an email to maemo-devs and a posting on itt, but not that much feedback. so it seems either garage devs don't really care or don't read anything	05:00
GeneralAntilles	Hard to get feedback. . . .	05:00
andre__	it's up to them, if they are happy with garage, i won't stop them. less work for me	05:00
GeneralAntilles	My personal feeling is that garage's tracker sucks, but I have some reservations about merging garage tracking with Bugzilla.	05:02
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andre__	oh, i'm also not that keen on it because it means more work for us. on the other hand, i can just offer this to the community, because that's who i work for :-)	05:04
timelyx	the first thing i did when i got control of the browser garage system was disable all the tracker bits	05:05
timelyx	GeneralAntilles / andre__: one request: don't mass import bugs across	05:05
timelyx	especially for the 770 backport project	05:06
GeneralAntilles	Is there any statistical information on the garage tracker usage?	05:06
andre__	eeks, that exists? sure, no way, i don't want entropy	05:06
andre__	i have enough of entropy already right now ;-)	05:07
GeneralAntilles	What projects use it the most. What kind of volume we're talking about. etc.	05:07
* timelyx ponders		05:07
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timelyx	way too useful to expect ;-)	05:07
andre__	heh	05:08
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GeneralAntilles	So, a few clarifications.	05:13
GeneralAntilles	How might it be set up? 3rd Party product with projects as components of that?	05:14
timelyx	no	05:14
timelyx	bugzilla supports a thing called classifications	05:14
timelyx	(requires upgrading to supported version of bugzilla)	05:14
timelyx	Garage would be a classification	05:14
timelyx	each project in garage is given a product in bugzilla w/in the garage classification	05:14
GeneralAntilles	OK	05:14
timelyx	where possible components w/in a product should have common names	05:15
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timelyx	to enable cross queries	05:15
GeneralAntilles	To reduce clutter, it should definitely be an opt-in thing for project admins	05:16
GeneralAntilles	Should there also be some sort of barrier to entry?	05:16
timelyx	perhaps	05:16
GeneralAntilles	There are a lot of very stagnant projects on Garage, and it seems like you wouldn't want them getting in the way.	05:16
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timelyx	indeed	05:17
timelyx	https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/?func=downloadcsv&group_id=702&atid=2623	05:17
timelyx	i think you can try to brute force tracker :)	05:17
timelyx	i've done it before to get svn roots	05:17
GeneralAntilles	I think the net effect will be a positive one	05:20
GeneralAntilles	as I can't imagine many people wanting to submit bugs to a garage tracker.	05:20
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guenther	yeah...	05:23
guenther	just like sf.net issue reporting forum thingy	05:23
guenther	It's just unusable.	05:23
GeneralAntilles	I'm just a little worried about possible negative side effects and the specifics of the implementation.	05:23
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timelyx	i think you might even only migrate 2 projects per week	05:24
timelyx	that'd mean it'd take 3-4 years to migrate, but hey :)	05:24
timelyx	(ok, maybe that's a bit slow, how about 10/week)	05:25
GeneralAntilles	Well, the question still remains as to how many projects are actually using their trackers.	05:25
GeneralAntilles	I don't think it's all that many, myself.	05:25
* timelyx nods		05:25
timelyx	i'm still trying to figure out a way to find out if any are	05:25
timelyx	note that it's easy for users to use a tracker w/o the project	05:25
rm_you	i use mine	05:25
timelyx	since the project can easily not know the tracker exists	05:25
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: but i guess i would be up with switching	05:25
timelyx	https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/?atid=2623&group_id=702&func=browse	05:26
GeneralAntilles	Canola uses theirs	05:26
GeneralAntilles	Maemo Mapper users theirs	05:26
timelyx	this group is theoretically using it as the assignee has reported 3 of the "items"	05:26
rm_you	then i could refer to my volume crash bug with its bug number and not confuse people ;P	05:26
timelyx	rm_you ~wouldn't it be nice~	05:26
rm_you	lol	05:26
timelyx	hrm, i think i'm no longer a garage admin :(	05:27
rm_you	damn bug #2593	05:27
GeneralAntilles	mplayer is sorta using theirs	05:27
rm_you	tho, it IS global...	05:27
rm_you	https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?aid=2593	05:27
timelyx	Bugzilla Bug 2593	05:28
timelyx	Getting started does not work with Flash disabled	05:28
GeneralAntilles	PyMaemo seemms to be	05:28
rm_you	lol	05:28
rm_you	yeah but at least garage is global to garage	05:28
rm_you	>_>	05:28
GeneralAntilles	OMWeather, too.	05:28
rm_you	tho i guess I would be down with switching to bugzilla	05:28
rm_you	people would have a better idea of where to go to post bugs	05:29
guenther	Fix your code then before the switch. ;)	05:29
rm_you	rofl	05:29
GeneralAntilles	So #2593 is somewhat meaningful to the total number of bugs in all the Garage trackers?	05:29
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: yes	05:29
timelyx	https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?aid=3000	05:29
timelyx	doesn't exist :)	05:29
timelyx	so we're talking about a handful	05:29
GeneralAntilles	We get so many dupes in the adv-backlight tracker. I yearn for a RESOLVED DUPLICATE. :D	05:29
rm_you	lol	05:30
GeneralAntilles	How many bugs are in the Hacker Edition trackers?	05:30
rm_you	i want a "WONTFIX INTENDED"	05:30
guenther	"intended" is implied	05:31
timelyx	GeneralAntilles: probably most of them :)	05:31
rm_you	what is the standard state for "THIS IS NOT A BUG, THIS IS A FEATURE" :P	05:31
guenther	quote: "or some sort of a feature"...	05:31
timelyx	there are < 2700 tracker items	05:31
GeneralAntilles	INVALID	05:31
guenther	rm_you: RESOLVED INVALID most of the time	05:31
timelyx	https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?aid=1	05:32
timelyx	is a great bug	05:32
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: maybe I should BURY that option	05:32
guenther	differences are subtle sometimes	05:32
GeneralAntilles	timelyx, is there somewhere I can get a feel for the classification setup in action?	05:32
guenther	wait...	05:32
guenther	RESOLVED NOTABUG often :)	05:32
timelyx	GeneralAntilles: bugzilla.mozilla.org :)	05:32
timelyx	or bugzilla.gnome.org	05:32
timelyx	possibly bugzilla.redhat.com	05:32
timelyx	anyone w/ a maintained bugzilla and a moderately large set of components has to have it	05:33
GeneralAntilles	Rgr	05:33
timelyx	it's mostly a hack, since it doesn't actually affect bug views, and barely affects searching/reporting	05:34
timelyx	all it does is limit the number of visible products	05:35
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timelyx	bah, tracker is amazingly useless	05:36
GeneralAntilles	Well, it definitely fits in with the branding and trademark direction.	05:36
GeneralAntilles	I think we can all agree that Garage tracker needs to die.	05:37
timelyx	even having used tracker, i still have a hard time recognizing if a bug is open or closed	05:37
timelyx	https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?aid=4 <open>	05:37
GeneralAntilles	It's horrifying.	05:37
GeneralAntilles	As it's stands, garage is mostly a horrifying maze of evil and difficult to understand nooks and crannies.	05:38
timelyx	s/it's/it/	05:39
GeneralAntilles	Muscle memory	05:39
GeneralAntilles	My spine does what it wants. :D	05:39
timelyx	heh	05:39
GeneralAntilles	guenther or andre__, one of you want to put up a proposal on the wiki? "Task:Garage bug tracking" or similar.	05:41
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andre__	sunds good. my plan was to collect feedback and then "streamline" it to a wiki page. however, so far it's easy to collect ;-)	05:43
timelyx	it's limited to two screens of chatter above this line? :)	05:43
acydlord	anyone in here who uses a sprint data plan gonna be willing to sign a petition to sprint?	05:43
GeneralAntilles	Will there be cookies and punch?	05:44
timelyx	GeneralAntilles: basically the default component should probably be "General"	05:44
andre__	got to sleep. i can see light out there...	05:44
timelyx	unless someone has a really good argument for another name	05:44
GeneralAntilles	Later, andre__.	05:44
timelyx	andre__: heh	05:44
timelyx	good night, sleep tight, don't let the maemo bugs bite	05:44
acydlord	sadly i cant afford cookies	05:44
timelyx	milk then?	05:45
guenther	andre__: yeah... -(	05:45
GeneralAntilles	How about a free hat?	05:45
rm_you	I think the default component should be "Antilles"	05:45
rm_you	how about that? :P	05:45
timelyx	veto	05:45
GeneralAntilles	Sorry, rm_you. :P	05:45
rm_you	fine, "General" works too	05:45
guenther	rm_you: you mean default assignee, right? ;)	05:45
timelyx	i think we could probably skip importing resolved bugs	05:45
timelyx	unless someone has a reason to import them	05:46
timelyx	not sure about the value one way or the other	05:46
rm_you	timelyx: you could really just let people import their own bugs <_<	05:46
rm_you	voluntarily	05:46
guenther	don't	05:46
GeneralAntilles	Leave it up to the project admins?	05:46
rm_you	yeah...	05:46
timelyx	nah	05:46
GeneralAntilles	If they have a good reason for importing a resolved bug, they can import it?	05:46
guenther	sure, no duping to the resolved bug	05:46
timelyx	i think per project admins should get an email	05:46
rm_you	i mean... i wouldn't want to be FORCED to use a different system	05:46
timelyx	asking them to opt in or opt out, or opt manual	05:46
guenther	But close one as resolved, and dupe the rest.	05:46
timelyx	you could choose "I'll migrate to bugzilla, just create the product"	05:47
timelyx	or "Yes, migrate me"	05:47
timelyx	or "No, don't migrate me"	05:47
timelyx	or "I'm too lazy to reply to email, do whatever you feel is best"	05:47
guenther	timelyx: That's implied after a timeout with no response. ;)	05:47
timelyx	guenther: yes	05:48
timelyx	but it should be listed as an option in the email	05:48
timelyx	<if you don't reply by {deadline}, this {action} will happen automatically>	05:48
guenther	that sounds better	05:48
guenther	I was about to tell you to phrase it more strict	05:48
guenther	and scary	05:48
guenther	s/this action/ WHATEVER WE FEEL LIKE DOING /	05:49
timelyx	"We will do something, and you probably won't like it"	05:49
guenther	probably including feeding the devs cat	05:49
guenther	like that	05:50
timelyx	anyway	05:50
timelyx	i think the bigger question is how to handle components later	05:50
timelyx	supposing someone actually wants them	05:50
timelyx	i'd hope maemo mapper and a couple of the others you've already named would	05:50
acydlord	ugh, i cant download diablo thanks to this damn unstable connection and sprint making the data plan suck	05:51
timelyx	ideally there wouldn't be too many such requests per time period, so it shouldn't hurt the admins	05:51
timelyx	acydlord: find a shell account	05:51
timelyx	http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=free+shell+accounts&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8	05:52
guenther	adding components should be harmless	05:52
timelyx	ok	05:52
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guenther	hmm	05:52
GeneralAntilles	So, say we decide to move Advanced Backlight tracking over to bugzilla, versioning, etc is done for that component by the project admin(s)?	05:52
guenther	in GNOME, the devs of a project can do it themself	05:53
guenther	no such thing in bugs.maemo.org	05:53
timelyx	guenther: that's the things	05:53
timelyx	hence the "not quite harmless" bit :)	05:53
timelyx	i don't remember what current bugzilla says	05:53
guenther	But I haven't seen components change heavily ever.	05:53
\|penguinbait\|	anyone have android on 810 working?	05:53
timelyx	i think a properly configured product can probably be tweaked by its own group	05:53
\|penguinbait\|	sorry for repeating, its been a while :)	05:54
* timelyx thinks it's an inappropriate question :)		05:54
timelyx	this is #maemo, not #nit :)	05:54
timelyx	but i'm just one voice :)	05:54
GeneralAntilles	Meh, Debian-maemo discussion goes on in here.	05:54
timelyx	they're either an upstream or a downstream :)	05:55
guenther	I still guess, new products should be harmless. Don't expect much requests.	05:55
GeneralAntilles	\|penguinbait\|, I've never actually seen anybody in here with it.	05:55
\|penguinbait\|	I am just looking to see if anyone actually got it working.	05:55
\|penguinbait\|	I flash the kernel and can longer boot	05:55
timelyx	guenther: yeah, that's my view	05:55
guenther	No real use for any component other than General, unless there is a substantial amount of bugs anyway.	05:55
timelyx	i just want you to be aware that by default you get stuck w/ the maintenance	05:55
\|penguinbait\|	I was asked to help someone thats all I was trying to do	05:56
timelyx	yeah	05:56
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guenther	yes, I am aware we're going to shoulder the support load	05:56
timelyx	fwiw, i'd really recommend changing the email domain space a bit	05:56
timelyx	using *@maemo.org for bugs is a really bad idea :)	05:56
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guenther	What do you mean?	05:57
timelyx	i mean, what if a real person wants one of those valuable email addresses :)	05:57
mysc	are the mojo folks going to make a bootable ubuntu (a-la-john)?	05:57
timelyx	https://bugs.maemo.org/describecomponents.cgi?product=Browser	05:57
timelyx	bookmarks-bugs@maemo.org	05:58
GeneralAntilles	mysc, no clue, that'd be a question for the mojo folks. ;)	05:58
timelyx	instead of that, i'd have preferred bookmarks@bugs.maemo.org	05:58
mysc	heh, true enough. might be neat to play with...	05:58
guenther	ah	05:58
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timelyx	it's a minor detail, i just was responsible for the mozilla.org design	05:59
timelyx	and wasn't allowed to pick the design here	05:59
guenther	Well, what human wants an something-bugs address? ;)	05:59
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timelyx	guenther: i know...	05:59
timelyx	but when you start adding lots of other projects, you might end up w/ conflicts	05:59
timelyx	and it's a lot easier to have no MX on bugs.maemo.org than it is to deal w/ an MX which has real accounts and dozens of fakes	05:59
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timelyx	%component%@%product%.bugs.maemo.org (for all the garage imports)	06:00
guenther	right...	06:00
guenther	Actually, some internal discussions...	06:01
timelyx	just something to fix nowish when you do the migration :)	06:01
guenther	The GNOME style is what I want.	06:01
timelyx	which is what?	06:01
guenther	Why should the domain part exist at all?	06:01
timelyx	sorry, i only visit bgo on rare occasions	06:01
guenther	@gnome.bugs	06:01
guenther	@maemo.bugs	06:01
timelyx	oh, i'd prefer %component%@%product%.bugs	06:01
guenther	It's an alias to watch.	06:01
timelyx	which is what we use @ bmo	06:01
guenther	It should not direct to any valid domain with an MX.	06:02
timelyx	the nice part about the @ part is it makes for easy user match searching	06:02
timelyx	yeah, it doesn't @ bmo (bmo is bugzilla.mozilla.org accept when explicitly written as bugs-maemo)	06:02
guenther	and it doesn't at bgo	06:03
timelyx	there was even an explanation for the people who complain which is that "foo.bar" is not an FQDN unless written "foo.bar."	06:03
timelyx	so as far as the bugzilla is concerned, it's relative to some private host :)	06:03
guenther	Changing this is somewhere on my list...	06:03
timelyx	ok, good :)	06:03
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timelyx	oh, one warning	06:04
timelyx	the clever folks @ ICANN have decided to break DNS	06:04
timelyx	so someone probably needs to go register bugs.	06:04
guenther	@maemo.bugs.i-am-an-idiot-if-i-register-this	06:05
guenther	Problem solved. :)	06:05
timelyx	heh	06:05
* GeneralAntilles wants the mediawiki karma plugin already.		06:08
mysc	hrmm, google satellite apparently has blocked my ip from dl'ing to much via mapper	06:08
mysc	any suggestion other than changing ip?	06:08
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guenther	hehe	06:11
guenther	mysc: I found the same 2 days ago...	06:11
GeneralAntilles	I usually do my downloads for Maemo Mapper in 20-40MB batches.	06:11
guenther	I still hope they'll unblock me eventually.	06:11
timelyx	stop acting like a bot :)	06:12
timelyx	or start leaching someone else's wifi :)	06:12
guenther	Hey, the pre-cache was set to 5 by accident. :)	06:12
timelyx	(this is NOT legal advice...)	06:12
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mysc	heh	06:14
mysc	i guess i'll have to use someone else's wifi	06:14
GeneralAntilles	mysc, send Google an angry letter. :P	06:14
guenther	mysc: dynamic IP with regular ISP?	06:14
timelyx	GeneralAntilles: for violating their TOS?	06:14
GeneralAntilles	Cycle the cable modem!	06:15
GeneralAntilles	timelyx, ;)	06:15
timelyx	good luck w/ that	06:15
mysc	well, i'll just cycle my ip but then dl en-force via leeched wifi	06:18
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* guenther tips his hat		06:21
guenther	night folks	06:22
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* timelyx sighs		06:22
* timelyx goes to read planet debian		06:22
timelyx	people don't really understand what CSS is or what it can do	06:23
Proteous	phear the cascading!!	06:23
GeneralAntilles	Aint that the truth.	06:23
Proteous	LOOK OUT BELOW	06:23
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* GeneralAntilles hits Proteous in the head with jacob's ladder.		06:24
GeneralAntilles	s/with/with a/	06:24
rm_you	just beware of resonance failures	06:25
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Proteous	heh	06:27
gentooer	anyone have osso-statusbar-cpu working with Diablo?	06:31
GeneralAntilles	inz updated it a little while ago	06:32
GeneralAntilles	dunno if it ever made it to the repo	06:32
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GeneralAntilles	Anybody able to explain this? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3338	06:34
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timelyx	ack, he cloned it?	06:34
timelyx	gah	06:34
timelyx	please dupe it w/ a big lecture	06:35
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timelyx	and then talk w/ the openismus people about removing cloning support for people w/o editbugs	06:35
timelyx	cloning should be used rarely if ever	06:35
timelyx	it's clearly way too accessible	06:35
timelyx	btw, if you like (or don't) reading bugs and have followed the planet.debian spam, you might enjoy https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=404661#c51	06:36
GeneralAntilles	Kill me. <_<	06:38
GeneralAntilles	Personally, I'd make it more offensive for the sake of spite.	06:39
* timelyx sighs		06:43
timelyx	rm -rf /Users/debian/	06:43
timelyx	http://www.grep.be/blog/en/computer/cluebat/firefox_sucks_really	06:43
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rm_you	lol...	06:47
* rm_you just had iceweasel crash 3 times within 10 minutes on different sites, many of which he frequented before without trouble		06:48
timelyx	wow, a good article http://etbe.coker.com.au/2008/06/27/kernel-security-vs-uptime/	06:49
timelyx	rm_you: use firefox3 (official) and load about:crashes	06:49
rm_you	timelyx: is that anywhere in any debian repo? or do i just have to go get the deb myself?	06:51
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timelyx	don't get a deb	06:52
timelyx	the debs don't give you crash reporting	06:52
timelyx	just get the firefox tarball from mozilla.org	06:52
timelyx	extract it to ~/	06:52
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rm_you	this is why i just use opera >_>	07:04
GeneralAntilles	Ha	07:04
* rm_you likes opera		07:06
* rm_you wants opera back on his n800		07:06
WormFood	is there a way to enter chinese, by drawing the characters on the screen? I've seen cell phones that have that ability, and it would be really cool if the n800 can do it as well	07:06
GeneralAntilles	Bleh	07:06
GeneralAntilles	Opera was the suck.	07:06
GeneralAntilles	Good riddance to bad rubbish.	07:06
rm_you	Opera was the awesome. :(	07:06
GeneralAntilles	Lies.	07:06
rm_you	No, you!	07:06
rm_you	>_<	07:06
GeneralAntilles	Didn't work anywhere.	07:06
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* GeneralAntilles is watching the Blues Brothers again.		07:08
rm_you	wow, it loaded my iceweasel profile :P	07:08
rm_you	original, or 2000? :P	07:09
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GeneralAntilles	Original. . . .	07:09
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timelyx	rm_you: you're welcome to make a contract w/ opera for opera for n800	07:12
timelyx	i'	07:12
timelyx	i'm sure they'll gladly take your money	07:12
rm_you	lol	07:12
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	07:12
timelyx	WormFood: afaik diablo ships w/ a chinese ime	07:12
timelyx	and yes, it's a stroke based onscreen ime	07:12
rm_you	i'm sure I could hack it in from the 2007 firmware images <_<	07:12
timelyx	the feature has actually been available internally since os2005	07:12
derf	timelyx: How about Japanese?	07:13
GeneralAntilles	rm_you, somebody already has.	07:13
timelyx	derf: i have no idea what shipped	07:13
timelyx	but in theory there's no reason only one should work :)	07:13
WormFood	timelyx, but does it allow you to draw the characters?	07:13
timelyx	as opposed to what?	07:13
timelyx	it's stroke based	07:13
timelyx	you can't draw pixels	07:13
WormFood	I know I could install a pinyin input on the older ones	07:13
WormFood	chinese has more different ways to input than any other language	07:14
WormFood	the most common input methods are wubi and pinyin	07:14
timelyx	afaiu you make a number of strokes and when you're done it figures out which character you wanted based on what you drew	07:14
WormFood	I personally use pinyin, but I'm learning wubi to type the characters I don't know how to spell	07:14
timelyx	and it's a match for approximately what you drew	07:14
derf	Is this something Makoto Sugano was working on?	07:14
WormFood	cool, I'll have to check it out	07:14
derf	I.e., is it related to maemocjk at all?	07:14
timelyx	sorry, i'm a browser dev, i've used a number of different methods	07:15
timelyx	but i don't memorize their names	07:15
timelyx	nor do i memorize which ones we worked on internally	07:15
timelyx	because to me they're all just pretty little pictures	07:15
timelyx	and more chances to try and crash thigns	07:15
* timelyx has crashes a number of IMEs :)		07:15
timelyx	s/gns/ngs/;s/hes/hed/	07:15
timelyx	eat that infobot	07:16
WormFood	中文 is easy to type ;)	07:16
timelyx	??	07:16
GeneralAntilles	timelyx, it doesn't do /me's. ;)	07:16
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: who, and where can I get it :P	07:16
WormFood	if the N800/810 wasn't so hard to get into china, I'm sure they would be able to sell them in China	07:16
GeneralAntilles	rm_you, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19872	07:17
timelyx	GeneralAntilles: then it should have fixed the previous line :)	07:17
GeneralAntilles	I don't think you properly remember just how much Opera sucked, though.	07:17
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derf	Anyway, the nice thing about NOT providing a CJK-IME was that there was one I could actually build from sources available.	07:18
derf	Which meant I could do things like add SKK input to it.	07:19
timelyx	derf: shrug i have the diablo sources on swift, they should be on my mxr.maemo.org tomorrow if i can find a way to do the rsync	07:19
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rm_you	no deb there :( sad	07:22
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rm_you	awesome, so i can ssh into my tablet but have no idea where it is	07:24
rm_you	>_<	07:24
* GeneralAntilles has done that.		07:25
GeneralAntilles	It was under my bed.	07:25
rm_you	i hope i have the volume turned up decently...	07:25
* rm_you plays some techno with mplayer		07:25
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GeneralAntilles	Ahaha	07:26
rm_you	found it :P	07:26
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: you said you play Wesnoth?	07:26
GeneralAntilles	Yeah	07:26
rm_you	how <_<	07:27
GeneralAntilles	Install it	07:27
GeneralAntilles	Play	07:27
rm_you	it seems unplayable without a right click	07:27
GeneralAntilles	Meh, it's a little slow	07:27
GeneralAntilles	But it's a strategy game	07:27
rm_you	and very annoying without a keyboard	07:27
rm_you	...	07:27
derf	"A little"	07:27
derf	It's painful.	07:27
rm_you	i have yet to find a way to do the things the tutorial tells me to do	07:27
GeneralAntilles	Depends on perspective, I guess.	07:27
rm_you	since i can't right click	07:27
GeneralAntilles	Tap the menu?	07:27
rm_you	?	07:28
GeneralAntilles	I believe it describes the alternative method in the tutorial	07:28
rm_you	it didn't	07:28
rm_you	and i couldn't undo because I didnt have my keyboard with me	07:28
GeneralAntilles	Use the menu	07:28
rm_you	though i fixed that by rebinding u to the esc button	07:28
rm_you	but how do you right click on a square with the menu?	07:28
timelyx	http://madduck.net/blog/2008.06.28:shortcomings-of-the-nokia-e51/	07:28
timelyx	^ would anyone risk offering that guy an n810?	07:29
timelyx	rm_you: i generally send bt objects to my devices when i can't find them :)	07:29
mysc	hrmm MM crashed and rebooted my nit	07:31
GeneralAntilles	Odd	07:32
rm_you	timelyx: lol	07:32
rm_you	fortuntely i know how to change volume on command line :P	07:32
mysc	it is weird that the nit rebooted, aye?	07:32
rm_you	anyone here know how to use aircrack-ng? :P just installed, want to test it on some of the networks here	07:33
GeneralAntilles	mysc, I've never seen Maemo Mapper cause a reboot.	07:33
derf	GeneralAntilles: I have.	07:33
GeneralAntilles	It used to crash all the time when I accidently turned off my BT GPS before disconnecting	07:33
timelyx	rm_you: i don't have commandlines on all of my phones	07:33
GeneralAntilles	but no reboots	07:33
timelyx	so bt objects work nicely	07:33
timelyx	and my mac can send them	07:34
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derf	It used to happen _a lot_ before it switched to the database for maps.	07:34
timelyx	'course, on average my devices are all muted, but hey, it's worth a try	07:34
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derf	I mostly blame it on crappy mmc drivers.	07:34
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snowmoon	I've seen MAemo Mapper cause a reboot on an n810.	07:35
* timelyx still remembers a pdf reader causing a 770 to reboot		07:35
mysc	hrmmm, it shouldn't cause a reboot though, more like an app crash, but a system crash?	07:36
GeneralAntilles	Pissed off a watchdog	07:36
rm_you	timelyx: what phone you have? :P you need to get putty	07:36
mysc	sw_rst thats in the boot reason, doesn't seem like a wd	07:38
timelyx	http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/san-francisco-to-vote-on-naming-sewer-after-george-bush-855433.html	07:40
timelyx	rm_you: 9300i, n81 8gb, e61i, and a bunch of older ones	07:40
timelyx	but i don't think i can run sshd on them	07:40
timelyx	i do run putty on the ones i named	07:41
timelyx	but it doesn't help when i can't find the phone :)	07:41
mysc	GA, seems like /usr/bin/bme_RX-34 was to blame, any ideas/	07:41
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rm_you	ah you were talking about losing phones :P right. <_<	07:41
GeneralAntilles	bme is the battery management entity.	07:41
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mysc	hrmm, well i have 19 sw_rst's 1 entry in lg_reset and 6 in lg_restart	07:43
rm_you	aww :(	07:46
rm_you	no aircrack-ng for me	07:46
rm_you	WOW	07:47
mysc	GA i might have discovered a bug, seems like the batt had just finished charging when this happens. so battery full + MM + venus with saturn ascending = reboot	07:48
rm_you	just installed wireless-tools on my desktop... ran iwconfig... apparently i have been connected to some guy's network since i turned on my machine	07:48
rm_you	so like, the last 10 days	07:48
GeneralAntilles	Ha	07:48
mysc	heh.	07:49
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GeneralAntilles	A friend of mine once set up his neighbor's linksys router instead of his own.	07:49
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timelyx	so, anyone here remember getting dialogs from microb asking about insecure form submits?	07:49
Navi	lol	07:49
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timelyx	GeneralAntilles: nice	07:49
GeneralAntilles	Yes	07:49
Navi	There have been a lot of stories like that, GeneralAntillesn	07:49
Navi	Huh, howd that n get in there	07:50
GeneralAntilles	Magic!	07:50
Navi	Mmm	07:50
Navi	I love magic.	07:50
rm_you	lol	07:50
rm_you	Navi: you typed "GeneralA" and hit tab, while still typing the n	07:50
rm_you	:P	07:50
Navi	Ooh, nice	07:51
Navi	rm_you wins the prize	07:51
GeneralAntilles	Navi's hand in marriage?	07:51
Navi	Well	07:51
GeneralAntilles	timelyx, I don't think I've seen the insecure form bug in Diablo.	07:52
Navi	If I were tab completing, Id hit tab at the first n	07:52
timelyx	wanna try to hit it sooner?	07:53
timelyx	http://mxr.maemo.org/garage/source/browser/mozilla/trunk/microb-eal/src/gmozillaweb.c#1689 has the block of bad code	07:53
mysc	well folks, don't ever reach 100% batt while dl'ing maps of madagascar from google	07:53
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timelyx	1699 if (!gtk_moz_embed_common_get_pref(G_TYPE_BOOLEAN, "plugins.flashhack", &bfval))	07:54
timelyx	controls the value of 'bfval'	07:54
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timelyx	try setting plugins.flashhack to true	07:55
timelyx	if you restart, bad things should happen :)	07:56
* timelyx sighs		07:56
timelyx	the entire block of code should really be delated	07:57
timelyx	it's merely a collection of bugs	07:57
timelyx	my quick read of http://mxr.maemo.org/garage/search?string=plugins.flashhack is that if you ever run out of memory w/o crashing and then quit	07:58
timelyx	you're fsck for a session	07:58
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benh	crap	08:14
benh	diablo update killed my wayfinder nav key	08:14
* benh emails them		08:14
benh	it won't accept the key anymore, I probably should have "deactivated" it before the update...	08:14
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GeneralAntilles	Flash has been bringing my computer to a screeching halt for 30 seconds everytime I hit a page with it. Turned it off and it's like a whole new internet. . . .	08:26
qwerty12	Flash sucked when I used to use it in Linux. Though using it with the pulseaudio plugin made matters worse :/	08:27
timelyx	benh: yeah, you should have, sorry about that :(	08:27
benh	timelyx: bah, I suppose/hope wayfinder support will fix that up	08:28
benh	I don't need the nav. this week-end	08:28
timelyx	they should, you're a paying customer	08:28
benh	yup	08:28
benh	so Diablo didn't grow some Bluetooth PAN support nicely integrated in the GUI...	08:29
benh	looks like I should really finish adding those GUI bits to the garage projects	08:29
benh	project	08:29
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derf	GeneralAntilles: I just don't even install Flash these days.	08:42
derf	Makes the web much nicer.	08:42
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benh	hrm, why the hell would I have to disable the vdso to use diablo sdk ?	08:43
benh	some issue with the emulator ?	08:43
smackpotato	i does free 42 work	08:46
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liri	anybody selling his n800?	09:23
GeneralAntilles	Whose N800? :P	09:24
liri	heh	09:25
liri	it goes on amazon.com on $219 but the shipment to europe/me is like $50 sheesh	09:25
GeneralAntilles	liri, check the itT sales forum.	09:25
GeneralAntilles	It's discontinued now, so you may have a little trouble getting it.	09:26
liri	whats the address for the forum?	09:27
qwerty12	I swear down, this is the time I ever compile any form of mozilla/firefox etc again. This shit's meant to be micro and it's taking me years to compile >.<	09:28
qwerty12	s/time/last time/	09:28
infobot	qwerty12 meant: I swear down, this is the last time I ever compile any form of mozilla/firefox etc again. This shit's meant to be micro and it's taking me years to compile >.<	09:28
GeneralAntilles	internettablettalk.com	09:28
liri	thanks	09:28
benh	hrm weirdo, map/wayfinder cannot open the gps anymore	09:29
* benh wonders if that's related to the new agps thingy		09:29
benh	it doesn't give an error, just "no gps connection"	09:30
* benh kicks it		09:30
benh	ah, that must have worked :-)	09:31
liri	I wish I could get freemap.co.il to work on the n810	09:33
liri	it is based on Roadmap	09:34
qwerty12	If you mean the program, roadmap is available for maemo too.	09:34
liri	isn't it in beta or something?	09:36
qwerty12	No idea, garage says beta/production - stable	09:37
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mysc	q12, does it reboot your boxen like mm? :>	09:42
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qwerty12	mysc, compiling microb?	09:42
GeneralAntilles	http://groups.google.com/group/fbreader/browse_thread/thread/d62989d01a143d19#	09:43
mysc	nope, just having fun watching mm reboot my box	09:44
mysc	cheers all, gotta run.	09:44
GeneralAntilles	qwerty12, you compile it yet? :P	09:44
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Navi	qwerty12, pfft	09:44
Navi	Layout engines are very complex things	09:45
Navi	you should have expected it	09:45
qwerty12	GeneralAntilles, Nope. Some find string failed. I'm dpkg-buildpackaging again to see what error and edit the rules file when I see it.	09:45
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qwerty12	Navi, I expected something that built straight. I've already had to make changes because it wants to patch a file that doesn't exist and 3 patches that don't apply >.<	09:46
Navi	It's to be expected	09:47
Navi	they're in the unstable phase at the moment	09:47
Navi	or so I remember	09:47
qwerty12	Got any pointers on: "cp: cannot stat `build-tree/obj-edyn-armel-sb-buildmicrob2/dist/bin/Test*Embed': No such file or directory	09:48
qwerty12	". It sounds like an expression to me so I have no idea why scratchbox is being a knob.	09:48
qwerty12	Oh wait, I know why.	09:49
qwerty12	That's one of the patches I removed because it didn't apply and I'm a lazy ass shit to fix it.	09:49
qwerty12	Re the microb-gtkmozembed problem, I'm just gonna steal the control file from libgtkmozembed. Why? Nokia do like to let us end-users who compile stuff have different names from official. And as Diablo is about SSU, I don't want the apt or osso-software-version stuff messing up.	09:55
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qwerty12	Done. Dunno if this build will hold though, I need to make some modifications to the debianisation and I'll test it out.	10:07
qwerty12	Navi, Is microb-xulrunner any useful?	10:13
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timelyx	qwerty12: i didn't realize i had the crash reporter in my repo, but i'm glad it was helpful	10:21
Navi	qwerty12, it's as useful as you make it	10:21
qwerty12	timelyx, Heh, thanks for it.	10:22
Navi	an obscure answer like that only means that I can't think of anything to do with it	10:22
qwerty12	Navi, Heh, I was gonna say it was a bit cryptic :p. I don't think xulrunner is needed anyway :/	10:22
qwerty12	(for the tablets)	10:22
timelyx	you could use it to host fennec or chatzilla	10:23
timelyx	or dozens of other apps	10:23
* timelyx shrugs		10:23
Navi	yeah, but I'm not a fan of those xulrunner apps to begin with	10:23
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timelyx	heck, xulrunner should be able to host normal firefox too :)	10:26
Navi	:P	10:28
qwerty12	Don't think I'll be able to share this one. For some reason, microb-gtkmozembed_20080616-17_armel.deb has nothing inside it.	10:28
qwerty12	Meh, I'll just make a hybrid. Don't think that makes this ready for sharing.	10:29
* qwerty12 = most dodgy debian packager ever		10:30
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acydlord	i wish i had me some stable internets so i could download the sdk	10:31
timelyx	acydlord: what do you mean by sdk?	10:32
timelyx	because i was able to download what i think is the sdk using apt	10:32
timelyx	and that's fairly fault tolerant	10:32
acydlord	by sdk i mean the full maemo mess	10:33
acydlord	i'm borrowing internet, so its not very stable and the speeds are no good	10:33
timelyx	if it isn't open, i don't want it :)	10:33
acydlord	i'm going to find out which neighbor i'm borrowing internet from and buy them a new router	10:35
timelyx	heh	10:36
timelyx	good plan	10:36
acydlord	indeed, i mean i've been stealing their internet for one, and their router sucks	10:36
GeneralAntilles	Ha	10:36
timelyx	would an AOL CD improve performance?	10:37
acydlord	sadly, it quite possibly could	10:37
GeneralAntilles	Use it to incapacitate your neighbor and then replace their router?	10:38
acydlord	i've been downloading the diablo image so i can flash my n810, it's been going on 4 hours now	10:38
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GeneralAntilles	We used to play dodge-the-flying-disc-of-doom with AOL CDs.	10:38
timelyx	it could be worse	10:38
timelyx	i had a DVD that said it'd take a few days to download	10:39
timelyx	i gave up on my corporate network and switched to dsl	10:39
acydlord	i could be useing carrier pidgeon protocol?	10:39
acydlord	i'm going to call around in a week or so and see if any of the dsl providers will offer me a 12/12 connection	10:39
timelyx	hey, i think modern pigeons w/ usb sticks have fairly good bandwidth/range for the buck	10:39
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timelyx	if necessary, you can use an 8gb microSD card	10:40
GeneralAntilles	12/12 from DSL?	10:40
GeneralAntilles	I doubt it	10:40
acydlord	i still need to get an 8gb microsd for my n8a0	10:40
timelyx	but i'd recommend a 16gb usb stick if supported by your local PigeonProvider	10:40
acydlord	unless someone gets 16 supported	10:40
GeneralAntilles	"someone"?	10:41
acydlord	dsl /CAN/ do up to 15/15	10:41
acydlord	someone as i am too lazy to attempt to hack the kernel	10:41
acydlord	and tere is still that whole not being able to download maemo thing	10:41
qwerty12	16 should already be supported by stock kernel.	10:41
timelyx	qwerty12: i'm fairly certain nokia only warrantees 8	10:42
timelyx	and since i know even 1g cards that have died	10:42
timelyx	i'm not quite sure i'd risk a new expensive 16g card ;)	10:42
GeneralAntilles	16GB works fine.	10:42
GeneralAntilles	32GB will work fine	10:42
timelyx	really? cool	10:42
GeneralAntilles	8GB was probably just what was available to test with.	10:42
qwerty12	Will 1TB be supported by the kernel?	10:42
acydlord	lol	10:42
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: pong ;)	10:43
timelyx	hi X-Fade	10:43
GeneralAntilles	SDHC should be able to do 2048GB just fine	10:43
GeneralAntilles	But I'm not sure if anything needs doing software-side.	10:43
acydlord	well shart, i'll have to find a 32gb card	10:43
pupnik	2x micro-sd would be great in the N9x0	10:43
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, timelyx already played the "make GA remember what he said 3 days ago in scrollback game today". :P	10:43
* pupnik crosses fingers		10:43
GeneralAntilles	pupnik++	10:43
qwerty12	Heh, someone will just backport a patch to 2.6.21 and hope Menulaus doesn't burn out with a 1tb card :P	10:43
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Well, I see a ping from you about 9 hours ago, so ;)	10:44
acydlord	bah, my beard just hit he itchy stage again	10:45
GeneralAntilles	lol acydlord.	10:46
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, don't recall, probably wasn't important.	10:46
GeneralAntilles	I do see rm_you pinging you.	10:46
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Great, waste my time ;)	10:46
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Yeah, I'm going to pong him tomorrow ;)	10:47
* GeneralAntilles pokes X-Fade with a sharpened stick.		10:48
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GeneralAntilles	Ah, I remember now. Can you poke somebody about this? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3283	10:49
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Jaffa	Ah, X-Fade - just the man I need.	10:56
X-Fade	Ok, I got to leave now, I guess :)	10:57
Jaffa	https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/vim_7.0/summary.log looks very weird.	10:58
Jaffa	I was trying to recreate a problem with the armel build (another issue, I think), so resubmitted it last night; and that's all there is.	10:58
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qwerty12	Hah, I installed the microb and it starts and then it closes :/	10:59
acydlord	oops, i forgot to save my settings	10:59
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X-Fade	Jaffa: Yes, that is weird. It looks like the process just stopped.	11:05
X-Fade	Jaffa: I have no idea why.	11:05
Jaffa	Hmm.	11:05
Jaffa	Can I resubmit or do you want the current state to investigate (not that's there much in the publically visible bit)	11:06
X-Fade	Jaffa: Hmm no, it is still running ;)	11:06
Jaffa	Errr	11:06
X-Fade	Jaffa: So, that is definately weird.	11:07
Jaffa	Perhaps the building process needs a CPU time ulimit	11:07
X-Fade	Jaffa: I'll ask Ed to look into this.	11:09
X-Fade	We do have multiple builders, so it isn't blocking others.	11:09
Jaffa	Ah, cool	11:09
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Jaffa	Presumably, not till tomorrow, tho'?	11:10
Jaffa	I suppose that gives me a chance to investigate the mud bugs in the package	11:10
X-Fade	Jaffa: Well, I've mailed him. Don't know if he will be online today.	11:11
Jaffa	Ta	11:11
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Jaffa	Does pycage work for Nokia?	11:24
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melmoth	Good morning.	11:24
melmoth	X-Fade: remember the porblem i had building a package on the diablo autobuilder (armel package had no file, i386 had them all) ?	11:25
melmoth	Do you know if the guy in charge of the auto builder had time to look at it ? (ie should i retry now, or is it not worth it right now)	11:25
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Cptnodegard	how the fuck do you add url's to the internet radio? o0	11:46
Cptnodegard	nvm	11:46
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lcuk	jaffa - dr who !!!	11:48
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sp3000	timelyx: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1945#c7 in case you missed my ping last night	12:03
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ccooke	Damn. Anyone know how to get gstreamer to stream from an rtsp connection?	12:09
ccooke	The media player can do it, the internet radio applet does it... gstreamer, it seems, can't	12:09
sp3000	or, "how to distinguish you /dev/null pref sink and false constant variables with one character and lose"	12:09
* sp3000 runs to $random_family_event		12:12
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ccooke	Hmm. I guess I can use mplayer for it...	12:13
ccooke	but that's ugly	12:13
GeneralAntilles	Stick a prettier frontend on it, then.	12:17
ccooke	That would be the plan, yes :-)	12:20
ccooke	I was just hoping for something a little more integrating than forking and controlling via a pipe :-)	12:20
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rm_you	ccooke: mplayer has a slave mode	12:44
ccooke	Hmm	12:47
ccooke	So it does	12:47
ccooke	never noticed that before :-)	12:47
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qwerty12	Can't wait for the browser extras to release this: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/extensions/webaddon-useragentswitcher/?root=browser-extras :)	13:26
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macoute	Jaffa: one of the most important bugs to squeeze imo is that stopping video on client should stop also transcoding on server.	13:49
macoute	Jaffa: i could check the source too for that one, thouh	13:49
macoute	s/thouh/though	13:49
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webustany	hi there	14:02
webustany	has someone already used LD_PRELOAD on maemo ?	14:03
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pupnik	yes it works	14:16
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Jaffa	macoute: it already should do that	14:28
Jaffa	lcuk: I know!	14:28
Jaffa	lcuk: but... but... but... noooooo!	14:29
lcuk	bu hu neee whhhh huuu	14:31
GeneralAntilles	Ah, today's newbie itT PM is already here.	14:33
macoute	Jaffa: version 0.5?	14:34
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, nothing wrong with n00bs - even you were one once	14:34
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* GeneralAntilles isn't ready to start in on this yet. http://pastebin.com/d25177bad		14:34
Jaffa	macoute: since v0.0000001 - it was one of the original features and key design requirements. If it's not doing it for you, then something's b0rked.	14:34
macoute	the url says it all: d25177BAD :)	14:35
Jaffa	lcuk: it's a little rude for a newbie to PM someone asking for help (assuming that's what it is)	14:35
Jaffa	Eugh.	14:35
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: just ignore it	14:35
macoute	Jaffa: do you need to click twice a file to get it running?	14:35
lcuk	yes, especially when they are on a forum which should contain all the answers	14:35
Jaffa	macoute: in the web UI? no, they're normal links: click once, click "open", watch video	14:36
macoute	by checking logs ive discovered that first click starts the transcoding process and the other one starts playing on the file	14:36
macoute	Jaffa: to me in the web ui i really need to... :/	14:36
GeneralAntilles	Copying the URL and pasting it into gmplayer works, too. ;)	14:36
* GeneralAntilles really needs to figure out the dbus filehandling.		14:36
macoute	for me: click once -> browser seems to be loading forever, click another time -> open -> video loads	14:37
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: heh	14:37
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, on the pastebin, what happens if i click "report spam" ;)	14:37
Jaffa	macoute: using what browser and what OS version on the tablet, what Perl/OS version on the server?	14:37
GeneralAntilles	Don't have a clue, lcuk.	14:37
macoute	GeneralAntilles: how about the performance of gmplayer compared to original player?	14:37
macoute	This is perl, v5.8.8 built for x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi	14:37
GeneralAntilles	mplayer > Media player	14:37
GeneralAntilles	It's significantly better.	14:37
macoute	Jaffa: and diablo builtin player+browser	14:38
macoute	GeneralAntilles: faster?	14:38
GeneralAntilles	Yes	14:38
macoute	ok	14:38
GeneralAntilles	It'll play a lot more stuff.	14:38
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Jaffa	macoute: OK< I'll try and have a play this afternoon since I've got the same version of Perl/arch and tablet OS.	14:39
GeneralAntilles	lol . . . https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3340	14:39
macoute	Jaffa: n810?	14:40
Jaffa	macoute: yep, but h/w on the tablet side shouldn't really be a factor	14:40
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macoute	Jaffa: yep. it shouldnt :)	14:41
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lcuk	wicked! a "chinook diablo" is a composite rafting paddle	14:44
lcuk	nokia told us they wouldn't send us up the creek without a paddle :D	14:46
lcuk	is there an actual changelog for chinook->diablo (which was what i was hunting for)	14:48
Jaffa	There're package version comparisons of the SDK packages, but no actual proper changelog	14:49
* Jaffa slaps lcuk for asking stoopid questions ;-)		14:49
GeneralAntilles	Pfft	14:49
GeneralAntilles	Changelog.	14:49
* GeneralAntilles seconds the slap.		14:49
* lcuk blocks the slap and retaliates with a dangerous double intercontinental slap		14:50
lcuk	jaffa, where would i find the sdk version log?	14:50
Jaffa	macoute: one click start just worked for me on stock diablo, clicking "open" when it asked.	14:51
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lcuk	no fret, found it	14:52
Jaffa	macoute: hmm, but had an issue playing & stopping a BSG episode.	14:52
* Jaffa has Sunday lunch to eat, a dishwasher to fix, mud-builder to improve but I'll also try and look at mediaserv with diablo		14:53
GeneralAntilles	Can I talk anybody into making this not suck yet? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo#Maemo_SDK	14:53
lcuk	jaffa :) sounds like normal days for me	14:54
Jaffa	Oh, and Doctor Who to rewatch ;-)	14:54
lcuk	last week the washer decided to send a tidal wave across the kitchen	14:54
lcuk	heh	14:54
macoute	Jaffa: oki, thanks	14:56
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* aquatix misses canola2		15:29
GeneralAntilles	Install it?	15:29
aquatix	does the chinook version just work?	15:31
GeneralAntilles	Just enable Chinook Extras.	15:32
aquatix	kk	15:32
GeneralAntilles	As I've said before, Diablo is 99% compatible with Chinook.	15:32
aquatix	i know	15:32
aquatix	but as canola2 has several services, i wanted to play safe	15:32
aquatix	thanks for hint though :)	15:33
macoute	how about canolas upnp-suppoty?	15:35
macoute	support	15:35
macoute	i see it has a plugin for that, but is it usable?	15:35
GeneralAntilles	It's fine.	15:35
GeneralAntilles	Why wouldn't it be?	15:35
macoute	GeneralAntilles: upnp is quite a mess	15:35
macoute	with what servers are you using it?	15:36
GeneralAntilles	Of course, but the INdT don't tend to release things unless they work pretty well. ;)	15:36
GeneralAntilles	EyeConnect, here.	15:36
GeneralAntilles	But others use FUPPES and MediaTomb	15:36
GeneralAntilles	and some Windows stuff that I don't remember.	15:36
macoute	ok, fuppes is ok	15:36
macoute	does it work with video too?	15:36
GeneralAntilles	Of course	15:36
macoute	hmm, but iirc fuppes doesnt support transcoding	15:37
GeneralAntilles	One of them will even transcode for you.	15:37
GeneralAntilles	MediaTombo, I guess.	15:37
macoute	oh it does	15:37
macoute	fuppes i mean	15:37
GeneralAntilles	-o	15:37
macoute	it was the only free one that does it	15:37
macoute	for linux	15:38
macoute	some did it only for audio	15:38
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Kompo_	Anybody else had issues with Diablo + N800 + WPA? After update my N800 refuses to connect, the connectivity icon just flashes for a long time.. Without wpa works fine. (Zyxel 660hw)	16:51
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fnordianslip	i just installed diablo and cloned to SD, and wifi with WPA seems ok.	16:52
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Kompo_	fnordianslip: yeah, as I would also expect.. well, had to downgrade back to chinook	16:55
fnordianslip	Kompo_: strange. did you restore settings or manually enter the key?	16:56
Kompo_	fnordianslip: just a clean flash, no restores. must be something really trivial, maybe I try to reflash at some point	16:57
fnordianslip	Kompo_: I've used both approaches with success, so should be no problems either way. Good luck ;-)	16:58
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terbo	howdy.	17:41
wazd	hey everybody :)	17:42
wazd	Does anybody still facing Diablo crash with OMWeather?)	17:45
* terbo tests out canola then updates to diablo ...		17:45
Raytray	I have that when I try to go to settings.	17:48
Astro	Kompo_: I'm not even seeing wifi networks with diablo :(	17:50
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Kompo_	Astro: hehe. Well I'm happy I'm not the only one :) Seems like the over-the-air update feature will be put to work soon	17:52
Kompo_	only one with wlan problems	17:52
wazd	Raytray, have you installed latest 0.20.5?	17:52
andre___	is there a bug filed already?	17:52
Raytray	Not sure, let me check.	17:52
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Raytray	Oh, no I havn't heh.	17:54
Kompo_	Astro: Hmm. that was a bit illogical -- OTA updates need wlan connectivity :) :) :)	17:54
Astro	yesterday was one of the rare moments it worked	17:54
Astro	I updated	17:54
Astro	since then no luck	17:54
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Astro	I don't think I'll ever buy Nokia again	17:59
Astro	their opensource is a bad joke	17:59
Kompo_	Astro: yeah, well, the earlier version still works and it's better supported currently. maybe first diablo problems will be fixed soon	18:00
Astro	I'm willing to investigate by myself	18:01
Astro	that's why I bought a linux device	18:02
lcuk	astro, which open source tablet are you going for next?	18:02
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lcuk	at least for now im happy to consider the nokia a platform to run OSS apps in and im not so bothered by closed source	18:02
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waz1	hey lcuk)	18:04
lcuk	hi waz	18:04
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waz1	ah, what the heck with my nick ><	18:05
Jaffa	waz1: wazd's still connected	18:05
Astro	lcuk: openmoko?	18:06
forge	Uuuu	18:06
forge	I wouldn't say that freerunner is a tablet	18:07
lcuk	astro :) its not quite the same form factor :) but near enough to get you a gold star ;)	18:08
lcuk	you are right, if you're unhappy with nokia go to them	18:08
Astro	I'm very unhappy	18:08
forge	How come ?	18:08
Astro	coz wifi doesn't work in 9 of 10 cases	18:08
lcuk	in the situations where ive needed it its worked flawlessly	18:08
forge	Astro, only on diablo or on every OS ?	18:09
lcuk	but obviously this is a case of YMHV	18:09
Astro	forge: the problems started with chinook	18:09
Astro	before it was fine	18:09
forge	What HW ?	18:09
Astro	RX34	18:09
lcuk	astro, you mean wifi was perfect on same hardware on os2007 and since 2008 has been released its gone downhill? are you sure this isn't anecdotal since wifi wasn't so abundent and there were less none standards to adhere to?	18:10
forge	Hmh, well i haven't had any problems ever but i'm not using it that much anymore and i'm using n770 sooo	18:10
lcuk	if infact its a breakage of the software stack perhaps you should see if theres specific bug reports about it and if anyone is pushing them	18:11
Astro	lcuk: pardon?	18:11
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lcuk	ok, you said it worked well before chinook	18:11
Astro	I opened the bug in february	18:11
freelikegnu	johnx: does Diablo's cx3110x driver have the wpa_suplicant patch?	18:11
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lcuk	ahhh right, whats happened with it, you got a link?	18:12
Astro	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2926	18:13
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Jaffa	Gah, can't scp things to garage.maemo.org now	18:15
forge	Astro, i would imagine you have some silly hw failure	18:15
Astro	:(	18:16
forge	And it's not the sw's fault	18:16
forge	I guess your warranty is over ?	18:16
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Astro	no, I bought the dev last november	18:20
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forge	Hmh, well i would try to get it changed then, my friend's n800 has worked pretty much flawlessly without any kind of wifi errors like you described	18:23
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forge	And the behaviour might implicate that the wifi chip is somehow burnt/flawed or the antenna isn't connected properly or other stuff like that	18:23
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forge	Why it goes worse with Os upgrades i have no idea	18:24
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Capn_Fish	Stskeeps/JohnX: You guys here?	18:29
Capn_Fish	Stskeeps johnx	18:30
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Stskeeps	Capn_Fish: i am	18:40
Capn_Fish	Hey	18:40
Capn_Fish	I was just checking out your Debian wiki page	18:40
Capn_Fish	It looks nice. You say X still works, even with the latest updates?	18:40
Stskeeps	well i base it off a quite recent (as in a couple of days ago) sid install and a somewhat modified .deb johnx made	18:41
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Stskeeps	such as it providing xserver-xorg instead and it worked fine for me	18:41
Capn_Fish	That's more recent than what broke my install, so I'll call that yes	18:41
Capn_Fish	That's more recent than what broke my install, so I'll call that yes	18:41
Stskeeps	it's quite a barebones system right now though - but X does work	18:42
Capn_Fish	Cool	18:42
Stskeeps	haven't added any Xsession things to the install right now	18:42
Capn_Fish	Barebones is the way to go	18:42
Capn_Fish	Do you need keymaps?	18:42
Capn_Fish	I have some I could get to you	18:42
Stskeeps	well anything to get it to the level of the beta3 i guess	18:42
Capn_Fish	Both the "standard" one (Xmodmaps and keymap.maps) and customized ones	18:42
Stskeeps	haven't really looked at the Xmodmap stuff yet but i guess it's needed for a good user experience :)	18:43
Capn_Fish	I also have an xbindkeysrc file that allows for right clicking	18:43
Stskeeps	Capn_Fish: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian/xserver-xomap_1.3.99.0~git20070321-0osso2007420-rotate-nitdebian1.deb <- the xserver deb i use in the install	18:43
Stskeeps	that sounds nice :)	18:43
Capn_Fish	cool	18:43
Capn_Fish	Is there some place you want me to put/send them?	18:44
Capn_Fish	Heck, I just want a decent OS running on my N810 again!	18:45
Stskeeps	well the best thing would be constructing it as a package i guess - i haven't looked into how the xmodmap and xbindkeysrc stuff is set up in the beta3	18:45
Capn_Fish	I believe xmodmap is installed by default, but you have to install xbindkeys	18:45
Stskeeps	i think you could possibly upload them in bug tracker at https://garage.maemo.org/projects/nit-debian	18:46
Stskeeps	or feature requests	18:46
Capn_Fish	The way to go would probably to have packages like xmodmap-config and xbindkeys-config that put the files into /etc, then the user can copy them to ~/	18:46
Capn_Fish	I can do that	18:46
Stskeeps	well, we plan on having a good installer that's flexible, so	18:47
Stskeeps	every package installed is determined by a conf so	18:47
Capn_Fish	It looks like you've got a good start to that	18:47
Capn_Fish	Have you tried WEP?	18:47
Stskeeps	i tried WPA-PSK2 and that worked	18:47
Stskeeps	so i'm going to assume WEP would work	18:47
Capn_Fish	I hope so	18:48
Stskeeps	no clue though	18:48
Capn_Fish	It didn't for me on Beta3	18:48
Capn_Fish	but WPA2 AES did	18:48
Capn_Fish	It's odd...Maybe doing WEP through wpa_supplicant would be the way to go	18:48
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Stskeeps	well. the way i dealt with it in my setup is through debian /etc/network/interfaces.. i failed to get any wifi applets to wor	18:49
Stskeeps	k	18:49
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Stskeeps	NetworkManager insisted everything was a LEAP network :)	18:49
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Capn_Fish	lol	18:50
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Capn_Fish	Do you have an N800 or an N810?	18:50
Stskeeps	n800	18:50
Capn_Fish	So keymaps aren't a big deal to you :)	18:50
Stskeeps	well right clicking is always a good thing	18:51
Stskeeps	:P	18:51
Capn_Fish	Ya	18:51
Capn_Fish	I couldn't get middle clicking working, though	18:51
Capn_Fish	Well, I could, but not at the same time as right	18:51
Capn_Fish	I couldn't find two working key combos + screen tap	18:51
Capn_Fish	Oh, well. It's not a huge issue	18:52
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Capn_Fish	What files do I need to download initially to install this?	18:52
Stskeeps	as in X or the debian?	18:53
Capn_Fish	To install Debian	18:53
Stskeeps	just have a working root access on tablet and an internet connection.. maybe subversion to fetch down it	18:53
Stskeeps	in our final version it would give installer.tar.gz and then fetch dependancies	18:54
Capn_Fish	k	18:54
Capn_Fish	Bah....so much I need to do before starting :(	18:54
Capn_Fish	I knew I shouldn't have installed Diablo	18:54
Capn_Fish	So I just SVN down the stuff, then run the scripts mentioned in the Wiki?	18:55
Stskeeps	aye. svn checkout svn://svn.tspre.org/nit-debian/trunk , cd trunk/installer, ./debian-installer /where/your/ext2orext3SD-card-is CC , where CC is country code of the ftp mirror you want to fetch from	18:56
Capn_Fish	Oh, another idea...Maybe the log daemons shouldn't be installed? Since we're running off of flash?	18:56
Stskeeps	it assumes the target is empty	18:56
Capn_Fish	THat's fine by me	18:56
Stskeeps	well, i have them on right now cos experiments went bad at first :)	18:56
Capn_Fish	I assume jffs2 is OK?	18:56
Stskeeps	so i needed a way to diagnose errors	18:56
Capn_Fish	Ya, but for release....	18:56
Stskeeps	no clue	18:56
Capn_Fish	fair enough	18:56
Stskeeps	(jffs2)	18:56
Stskeeps	think it should be okay	18:56
Stskeeps	i don't make any assumptions about the fs i think	18:57
Capn_Fish	It's like ext2 for flash IIRC	18:57
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Capn_Fish	It is a *NIX fs	18:57
Capn_Fish	Just with wear-leveling/minimizing	18:57
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Capn_Fish	Good for flash memory :)	18:57
Stskeeps	nod	18:57
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Stskeeps	./debian-installer gets the dependancies needed to run the installer and then runs the python installer in a screen session	18:58
Capn_Fish	OK	18:58
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Capn_Fish	soo I only need to run debian-installer?	18:58
Stskeeps	yep - assuming you have mounted the target filesystem	18:59
Capn_Fish	Cool	18:59
Capn_Fish	Makes things easy!	18:59
Stskeeps	beware you're ending with a barebones system with usb net, X started (no wm installed), and wifi if you adjust it in the tablet setup	18:59
Capn_Fish	THat's fine	19:00
Capn_Fish	Even ideal	19:00
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Capn_Fish	It took time to remove all of the Xfce stuff :)	19:00
Stskeeps	oh, and leave it on charger. this stuff takes a long time	19:00
Stskeeps	:P	19:00
Capn_Fish	Do I need to do the Bootstrapping/tablet support steps myself?	19:00
Capn_Fish	They're kind of in another section	19:00
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Stskeeps	nop, that's just describing what is done in installer	19:01
Capn_Fish	Ah, gotcha	19:01
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sinak	hello! How can I edit a picture in N800? I tried to open it with Sketch but it didn't manage to open it	19:02
Capn_Fish	I will have to try this today	19:02
Stskeeps	and how the OS is started up	19:02
Capn_Fish	k	19:02
Capn_Fish	You know, it's nice having the rootfs on SD	19:02
freelikegnu	Stskeeps: I ran debian on my n800 and WPA works well	19:02
Stskeeps	and if the installer fails prod me - i didn't install a fresh image after adding latest package	19:02
Capn_Fish	Makes it easy to fix things you break	19:02
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Stskeeps	freelikegnu: using what network configuration? /etc/network/interfaces?	19:03
freelikegnu	one thing that keeps me from using debian full time is powermanagement of the wifi	19:03
Capn_Fish	sinak: have you checked the repos for an image editing app? What filetype is it?	19:03
sinak	it is jpeg	19:03
Stskeeps	freelikegnu: well, if any more details can be figured out about it it's always good	19:03
Capn_Fish	freelikegnu: Doing an "iwconfig wlan0 power 1" doesn't work?	19:04
Capn_Fish	sinak: Well, there's always running GIMP in a Debian chroot :)	19:04
freelikegnu	sts, I put my networks in a /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf and then run wpa_supplicant from /etc/network/interfaces	19:04
Stskeeps	freelikegnu: k	19:04
Capn_Fish	But I'd check to see if there's a Maemo image editing app first	19:04
Stskeeps	freelikegnu: same i did, sortof - latest debian has proper wpa_supplicant support for /etc/network/interfaces	19:05
sinak	ok i'll check the repos :-)	19:05
Capn_Fish	Best of luck	19:05
freelikegnu	something like "pre-up wpa_supplicant -c /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf -iwlan0 -Dwext"	19:05
freelikegnu	oh be sure to add -B	19:05
freelikegnu	for daemon mode	19:05
Stskeeps	nod	19:05
Capn_Fish	That's kind of important :)	19:05
freelikegnu	then "post-down killall wpa_supplicant"	19:06
freelikegnu	kind of brute force, but hey	19:06
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Capn_Fish	nah, brute force would be kill -9	19:06
freelikegnu	hehe	19:06
Capn_Fish	Of course, that would involve grepping and stuff to get the process ID	19:07
Stskeeps	or just going into /var/run/wpa_supplicant-wlan0 or something	19:07
Stskeeps	:P	19:07
Capn_Fish	Fair enough	19:08
Capn_Fish	catting, then	19:08
Capn_Fish	lol	19:08
RST38h	yawn	19:08
terbo	i second that emotion.	19:08
Capn_Fish	Have you figured out how to control the power LEDs and/or keyboard backlight (I assume not on that one)?	19:08
Stskeeps	Capn_Fish: well, i focused mostly on making a proper installer :) hope there'll be more people in on this to make some of the more user oriented things	19:09
Capn_Fish	Fair enough.	19:09
Stskeeps	my goal was a proper barebones distro that is installed from the tablet instead of having to debootstrap it on desktop	19:10
Capn_Fish	I looked at it, and there's nothing obvious in /proc or /sys	19:10
Capn_Fish	on Maemo, I mean	19:10
Stskeeps	with ability to extend and install whatever we want on it ;)	19:10
Capn_Fish	Sounds like you did a good job of it, too	19:10
Capn_Fish	It is much appreciated	19:10
freelikegnu	I played around with Ubuntus hildon and sugar desktops the other day	19:11
Capn_Fish	Oh?	19:11
freelikegnu	sugar really does not like being on 800x600	19:12
Capn_Fish	The new ubuntu-mobile or whatever they're calling it	19:12
Capn_Fish	?	19:12
freelikegnu	yeah ubuntu "MID"	19:12
freelikegnu	MID was neat	19:12
Capn_Fish	Do you know where they stuck the source for that interface?	19:12
freelikegnu	turned my pc tablet into a giant n800	19:12
Capn_Fish	lol	19:12
RST38h	heavy and power hungry?	19:12
freelikegnu	I think is universe?	19:13
freelikegnu	lemme check	19:13
Capn_Fish	It's in the main feeds?	19:13
Capn_Fish	slaps himself in the head	19:13
Capn_Fish	Why didn't I think of that?	19:13
freelikegnu	yeah universe X11	19:14
freelikegnu	look for hildon-desktop meta package	19:14
Capn_Fish	OK	19:14
Capn_Fish	Or just the source packages :)	19:15
Capn_Fish	some of the Zaurus Debian folks are looking to have it on their Zaurii, and I thought I'd try to build it	19:15
freelikegnu	or $ apt-cache search hildon dev	19:15
Capn_Fish	k	19:16
freelikegnu	you'll prolly need some matchbox deb stuff too, hmm?	19:16
Capn_Fish	I'm going adventuring, then (N810 root access, fanoush's bootloader, and Debian install)	19:16
freelikegnu	*dev	19:16
Capn_Fish	probably	19:16
glass_	freelikegnu: mid's are neat... but i'd like to see the day they're cheap	19:17
Capn_Fish	We'll see what it complains about	19:17
freelikegnu	an alternative hildon for n8xx would be nice :D	19:17
Capn_Fish	Catch you all later	19:17
Capn_Fish	freelikegnu: Or just a decent OS (Like Debian)	19:17
freelikegnu	glass_: n800 is pretty darn cheap	19:17
freelikegnu	cya Capn_Fish	19:17
Capn_Fish	Bye	19:17
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glass_	freelikegnu: yes but it's not near the power of what a mid is supposed to pack	19:19
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freelikegnu	glass_: how is that?	19:20
glass_	freelikegnu: intel mids are x86 based, with 2-4 times memory of n800's	19:21
Jaffa	And no more than 1/2 the battery life	19:21
glass_	and triple the price	19:21
freelikegnu	so today you can have a cheap mid, that is adequate	19:22
sinak	i want to write a message in a photo. How can i do that? (n800)	19:22
glass_	freelikegnu: ..point is, n800 is not a MID	19:22
glass_	as intel puts it	19:22
sinak	sketch couldn't open my photo	19:22
glass_	and as intel puts it is how ubuntu puts it	19:23
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freelikegnu	ubuntu is also ported to hw other than x86	19:23
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freelikegnu	ppc, spark, and now mips	19:24
freelikegnu	and while its great that intel and Canonical are chummy, all the better for everyone else	19:26
freelikegnu	whatever puts more gnu in peoples hands is a GoodThing afaic	19:27
glass_	freelikegnu: yes, but it's aimed at beefier devices	19:27
glass_	and currently the pricepoint is way too high to put it into hands of people in large scale	19:27
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freelikegnu	I think thats rather short sighted, seeing as how I could run Ubuntu mid on a $100 pIII tablet	19:29
freelikegnu	so for me MID is an enabler, today	19:30
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Jaffa	freelikegnu: what PIII tablet costs $100?	19:41
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freelikegnu	Fujitsus	19:45
freelikegnu	Hammerheads	19:45
freelikegnu	Itronix	19:47
freelikegnu	I bought I couple Itronix touchscreen laptops for my kids for about $150 each	19:47
Jaffa	Cool	19:48
freelikegnu	currently they urn XFCE	19:48
freelikegnu	*run	19:48
freelikegnu	but MID looks compelling	19:48
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freelikegnu	some of these older machines have basic 3d accelleration too	19:49
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glass_	used price is used..	19:52
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freelikegnu	http://search.ebay.com/tablet-pc-fujitsu-500_Laptops-Notebooks	20:04
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wazd	darn gprs...	20:07
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RST38h	Anybody else has 11-18MB browserd running AFTER MicroB has quit?	20:14
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zap	Can I save somehow the kernel before flashing a new one with 'flasher' ?	20:16
zap	just in case my kernel won't boot :)	20:16
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Atarii`	zap i had the same though	20:18
Atarii`	however	20:18
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Atarii`	to go back to an original kernel, you can extract one from a fiasco image	20:18
Atarii`	using the linux flasher program	20:18
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Capn_Fish	Stskeeps: Still here?	20:21
zap	Atarii: cool, that worked	20:22
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zap	anybody knows which command line has kernel by default?	20:24
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Atarii	?	20:25
RST38h	moo, rm_you	20:25
rm_you	cluck, RST38h	20:26
rm_you	I've never been up this early...	20:26
rm_you	What happens? >_>	20:26
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lcuk	oh shit, everyone: rm's here put away the cool stuff	20:27
wazd	i have 9.30 pm now)	20:27
lcuk	errr hi rm_you :S :D	20:27
RST38h	rm_you: nothing happens here	20:27
RST38h	same people	20:28
RST38h	any time zone	20:28
Capn_Fish	Stskeeps: I'll take that as a no?	20:28
RST38h	If you wish news, I can complain about Diablo icroB	20:28
wazd	lcuk, soooo, visual impovement idea for your stars)	20:28
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wazd	+1	20:28
wazd	sluggish "connectting..."	20:29
Stskeeps	Capn_Fish: sorry, gf showing me pics of her diving classes	20:29
Capn_Fish	np	20:29
Capn_Fish	I'm having issues with the install script	20:30
Capn_Fish	It says "failed to install deps. Please check your apt sources"	20:30
wazd	so, about stars, maybe you shoud make them black on spawn and then smoothly turn them to white?)	20:30
Capn_Fish	What source do I need to add that has Python, Wget, binutils, and subversion?	20:30
Stskeeps	Capn_Fish: http://rafb.net/p/rFvRRf59.html are the ones i have	20:31
Capn_Fish	kk	20:32
Stskeeps	i'm guessing maemo extras	20:32
Capn_Fish	I have that enabled...	20:32
Stskeeps	diablo release though?	20:32
Stskeeps	i didn't test on diablo, didn't upgrade :P	20:32
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Stskeeps	Capn_Fish: could i get your xmodmap and xbindkeys files you mentioned btw? just put them on rafb.net/paste or something	20:34
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Capn_Fish	OK	20:35
Capn_Fish	hang on a tif	20:35
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Capn_Fish	http://rafb.net/p/X0OOF142.html xbindkeysrc	20:36
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Stskeeps	ta, i'll just put them on wiki in planning stage package	20:37
Stskeeps	s	20:37
Capn_Fish	k	20:37
Stskeeps	and that is based on n810 keyboard?	20:37
Capn_Fish	http://rafb.net/p/PvPhhk16.html xmodmaps (look carefully)	20:37
Capn_Fish	Ya	20:37
Capn_Fish	They're missing the keys on the top (+/-, power, fullscreen)	20:38
Capn_Fish	unfortunately	20:38
Capn_Fish	I'll get to it eventually	20:38
zap	Anybody has some good pointers on N810 boot process? I want to understand it in details	20:38
Capn_Fish	http://rafb.net/p/HB5fW086.html keymap.map (same as for xmodmaps)	20:39
Capn_Fish	Xbindkeys needs 2 files, BTW	20:39
Capn_Fish	mouse-m and mouse-r	20:39
Capn_Fish	http://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=25846&st=0&start=0	20:40
Capn_Fish	Get them there	20:40
pupnik_	http://youtube.com/watch?v=4Qlm4v6i80c Michael Penn - "It's a Long Way Down"	20:40
pupnik_	so good	20:40
Stskeeps	Capn_Fish: the zdevil click thing?	20:42
Capn_Fish	ya	20:42
Capn_Fish	There are two binaries in the package	20:42
Capn_Fish	mouse-m and mouse-r, which generate middle and right mouse clicks	20:43
Stskeeps	source is your mouseclick.tar.gz?	20:43
Capn_Fish	Kind of	20:44
Capn_Fish	It's likely my source for mouse-r	20:44
Capn_Fish	I can't remmeber if my source is a regular click or not	20:44
lcuk	wazd, i did that originally, but it doesnt look as good as you think it would.	20:44
Capn_Fish	It should be one variable that needs changing	20:44
Stskeeps	k - i'll just add sources and needed information to do the trick then	20:46
lcuk	but that was before i had sync lock, let me just try it again	20:46
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Capn_Fish	fair enough	20:46
Capn_Fish	Got everything else?	20:47
Stskeeps	the xmodmaps.. what are the benefits of those? N810 keyboard working or?	20:48
Capn_Fish	THe kb WORKS without them	20:48
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Capn_Fish	the mappings are just off (no tab or /, kind of a pain on Linux)	20:48
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Capn_Fish	Necessary for al FN key combos and some others	20:48
Stskeeps	nod	20:49
Capn_Fish	wonderful! :)	20:50
RST38h	gentlemen, could someboyd tell me what is the analog of bpf device in linux?	20:51
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pupnik	btw RST38h did you ever find a high resolution timer on the OMAP2420 ?	20:54
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pupnik	something like on the 80x86	20:55
RST38h	pupnik: I did not try - just using Linux usleep	20:55
lcuk	how high do you need pupnik?	20:55
RST38h	usleep seems to work though	20:55
RST38h	If I understand things correctly, a polite Unix-like OS should automatically make use of hires timer when you do stuff like nanosleep() etc	20:56
Stskeeps	Capn_Fish: do you know if we have XKB support in X?	20:57
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Capn_Fish	No idea	20:59
Stskeeps	http://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=25459&view=findpost&p=175502 mentions doing this through Xmodmap (right click), just wondering if it would work	21:00
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Capn_Fish	Well, check for xkb support with	21:01
Capn_Fish	xdpyinfo\|grep XKEYBOARD	21:01
sp3000	https://bugs.maemo.org/describecomponents.cgi?product=Communication	21:01
sp3000	Email Bugs related to the e-mail application.	21:01
sp3000	Modest Bugs related to Modest e-mail application	21:01
sp3000	I suppose the former should be tweaked so ...uh, or, something	21:01
* sp3000 scratches head		21:02
* sp3000 shrugs		21:02
inz	add: "old'n'sucky"?	21:02
Stskeeps	Capn_Fish: got any experience making debian packages?	21:02
Capn_Fish	A little	21:02
sp3000	inz: yeah, but then I started thinking about how that actually adds value	21:02
Capn_Fish	IPKs are the same, and I've made WAY too many of those	21:02
Capn_Fish	Debs are a little more picky, but I'm OK with it	21:03
sp3000	maybe the Modest component should be merged into Email now that it's out	21:03
sp3000	in a default sense	21:03
Stskeeps	well, for the base packages we use a simplistic version, where we just do dpkg-deb --build	21:03
Stskeeps	as dpkg-buildpackage can't be done on tablet	21:03
Stskeeps	(in a decent way)	21:04
sp3000	since at this point using modest and filing bugs on it doesn't require knowing about its magical unicorn package name	21:04
Capn_Fish	OK...	21:04
Capn_Fish	Why can't dpkg-buildpackage be done on the tablet?	21:04
* Stskeeps wonders idly if we do dpkg-deb on tablet or on chroot		21:05
* sp3000 files a bug, that should poke the right bug people		21:05
lcuk	Stskeeps, :) thank you! i do all my coding on tablet and had gotten to realising i couldnt get dpkg-buildpackage on easily but lack of knowledge left me without a method.	21:05
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lcuk	at least now i know theres a way	21:06
kkrusty	isnt the Eclipse+ESbox video a bit too grainy?	21:06
Stskeeps	Capn_Fish: well ok, we can prolly do it on the debian chroot, but it's a bit silly pulling in build-essential to a pure debian iamge :)	21:06
Stskeeps	if we want to compile something	21:06
Stskeeps	for now our dpkg-deb method seems to work :P	21:07
Stskeeps	as we handwrite the control files and such	21:07
Capn_Fish	Fair enough	21:07
Capn_Fish	I personally like having build tools on the device, though	21:07
Stskeeps	Capn_Fish: could you look through the wiki page about the stuff we just discussed (xmodmap etc), and see if i did some major errors?	21:07
Capn_Fish	OK	21:07
Capn_Fish	brb	21:07
Stskeeps	lcuk: well it requires hand-making the package but besides that	21:08
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lcuk	Stskeeps, you sure? couldnt i configure and set it up once in vmware (the horror that it is) with full tools, then once all setup use -deb to rebuild the deb as required	21:09
Capn_Fish	Looks fine to me. You may want to say where to put the files and how to activate them :)	21:09
sp3000	Bug 3344 Submitted - do something about Modest vs Email bugzilla components	21:09
Capn_Fish	Otherwise it's all good	21:09
sp3000	why don't we have a bugzilla bot, still :)	21:09
sp3000	er	21:09
sp3000	:(	21:09
Stskeeps	lcuk: well i guess so	21:10
* sp3000 doesn't have a 24/7 box to run one		21:10
lcuk	either way, now i know i can rebuild direct i can carry on coding happily	21:10
Stskeeps	Capn_Fish: i'm thinking to switch instead of doing /home/user/.xsession in rc.local to /etc/X11/Xsession which then pulls in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ files.. where the xmodmap and xbindkeys stuff is activated	21:10
Stskeeps	Capn_Fish: so we don't rely on X user being user	21:10
Capn_Fish	sounds good to me	21:10
lcuk	thanks for the tip - even though you werent giving out advice :D	21:11
Stskeeps	lcuk: hehe, np	21:11
Stskeeps	lcuk: i found out scary things about debian i really didn't want to know while doing this stuff	21:11
Stskeeps	:P	21:11
lcuk	yer i tend to agree, forgive my innocence but what is "this stuff" - i just came back from tea and saw your excellent comment	21:12
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Capn_Fish	Debian on the NITs	21:12
Stskeeps	lcuk: we're building a debian installer for the tablets	21:12
Stskeeps	that is sane, and not a huge tar.gz	21:12
lcuk	i dont think anyone that puts debian on NIT is sane :P	21:13
Stskeeps	lcuk: http://wiki.maemo.org/Debian_for_NITs_development	21:13
Stskeeps	lcuk: hehe. it works pretty well so far	21:13
Capn_Fish	Stskeeps: Just to verify I did this right: I do "./debian-installer /media/mmc1 us" if I want to have my system's root to be /media/mmc1, right?	21:14
lcuk	ive heard good things about it tbh	21:14
Stskeeps	Capn_Fish: aye, it'll put the debian installation in that directory	21:14
Capn_Fish	cool	21:14
Capn_Fish	lcuk: You don't think Debian on the NITs is sane?!?!?	21:14
Capn_Fish	I have doubts on you sanity now...	21:15
Capn_Fish	lol	21:15
lcuk	its ok, i have the same doubts	21:15
Capn_Fish	Seriously, though, what's wrong with it? Maemo, to be brutally honost, sucks.	21:15
lcuk	its the linux way to get linux on all devices, even those that already run it ;)	21:15
Capn_Fish	And Debian is a great OS	21:16
lcuk	i agree with that, hows the framebuffer on deb side?	21:16
macoute	Capn_Fish: i though have some concerns about debians performance on tablet	21:16
Capn_Fish	It works fine	21:16
lcuk	fast or fine?	21:16
macoute	otherwise id have it already :)	21:16
Capn_Fish	I don't know. I haven't played with it yet	21:16
Capn_Fish	I just know it works	21:16
Capn_Fish	macoute: It's got fine performance	21:17
Cptnodegard	will future releases of apps be compatible with both chinook and diablo or just diablo?	21:17
macoute	Capn_Fish: so browser loads as fast as on maemo? (which is not fast enough, though :))	21:18
lcuk	well (not sure if you know) ive been writing some framebuffer code to try to get nice fast updates out of the nokia. ive had some pondering about trying to create an x11 driver to talk to the lcd in a faster way. the only problem is its a YUV mode I am using, so greyscale would end up being a really fast end mode	21:18
Capn_Fish	I'd call it about even, perhaps a little slower. It renders at a good speed, though	21:18
lcuk	( i cant expect RGB images to be converted on the fly for every instance in every program, so hence thinking grey..)	21:18
Capn_Fish	gotcha	21:19
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Capn_Fish	That's more than I know how to do	21:19
sinak	when i'm trying to save an image from sketch, it says Not enough space in target location. I'm sure i have a lot of free space.	21:19
Capn_Fish	Have you checked with "df -h"?	21:19
lcuk	same here, its one of my less than sane ideas, but its plausable. i know linux can handle being placed on greyscale framebuffers quite easily	21:19
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sinak	Capn_Fish i have 400mb free space	21:22
Capn_Fish	hmm...I don't know then	21:23
sinak	is it possible to be a ram problem?	21:23
Capn_Fish	Stskeeps: You know what we really need....A high-end box running Qemu rebuilding all of the Debian packages optimized for the N8x0	21:23
Capn_Fish	sinak: I think not	21:23
Capn_Fish	That would solve any speed issues!	21:24
macoute	Capn_Fish: we dont even need a high-end box	21:26
macoute	as we have a lot of low-end boxes available :)	21:26
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sp3000	hmm, I wonder if I can cc component pseudo-qa accounts	21:27
Capn_Fish	macoute: true	21:28
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Capn_Fish	But the whole distributed computing thing seems like a pain to set up	21:29
* Stskeeps goes wreck havoc on the x server init scripts for kicks.		21:30
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* snowmoon looks at condor... 284 unclaimed CPU's		21:31
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Capn_Fish	I'm off for now	21:34
Capn_Fish	catch you later	21:34
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inz	Started to play with cairo and came up with a "system monitor" (currently random data), anyone interested if I finish it: http://inz.fi/graph.png	21:36
RST38h	brontide: Mass-convert movies for N8x0 and put them online!	21:36
Navi	Lol	21:37
aquatix	is it just me, or isn't there a wireless-tools for chinook/diablo?	21:38
Navi	whatcha lookin' for?	21:39
*** summatus\|afk is now known as summatusmentis		21:39
RST38h	http://dansimmons.com/news/news_items.htm#carrion	21:40
* RST38h imagines Carrion Comfort being made into a movie by a bunch of perverse, sadomasochistic, US-hating French and chuckles in delight		21:40
Jaffa	inz: perty	21:41
freelikegnu	lets hope Audrey doesnt speak much	21:41
kuriiri_	i just updated to diablo and now wayfinder says network error when trying to update maps	21:42
kuriiri_	any ideas?	21:43
kkrusty	someone needs to make a better video of the ESBox+Eclipse Plugin demonstration.	21:43
inz	Jaffa, I'll take that as a yes (and don't deny, or I'll never finish it)	21:43
kuriiri_	webbrowsing etc works fine	21:43
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kkrusty	not that Im needy, Can anyone actually see my messages?	21:43
RST38h	freelikegnu: Given the storyline, she will not have a chance	21:44
RST38h	'cause most characters die really quick there	21:44
melmoth	kkrusty: i do	21:44
kkrusty	melmoth: thanks.	21:45
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melmoth	X-Fade: you here ?	21:50
kkrusty	cool I just found a high res version of the video. Now I know why I was being ignored :)	21:52
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crashanddie_	if anyone is following the game, could you keep me posted about the score ?	22:03
melmoth	whot game ?	22:05
melmoth	autobuiler 1/developper 0 :-)	22:05
crashanddie_	germany - spain	22:05
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* Jaffa 's father-in-law is watching it down stairs		22:12
Jaffa	inz: yeah, I'd have that running. Only needs axes and to be scalable and it'd do for a first release	22:13
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zap	hehe, 1:0	22:21
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JamieBennett	anyone running a diablo scratchbox install?	22:22
zap	me	22:22
JamieBennett	Are you using chinook in the sources.lst?	22:23
JamieBennett	or Diablo?	22:23
zap	So far it's a fresh install and everything is by default	22:23
zap	let me look at sounrces.lst	22:23
* zap booting ubuntu in kvm		22:24
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zap	deb http://repository.maemo.org/ diablo/sdk free non-free	22:25
zap	and so on	22:25
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zap	also diablo/tools	22:26
JamieBennett	ah, thanks, can seem to install some of the gtk bits	22:26
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JamieBennett	import gtk is not finding a module named gtk :(	22:28
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JamieBennett	zap Can you 'import gtk' from a python shell and see if it works for you?	22:32
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brontide	Any gtk experts? why would a function work normally when invoked via __init__() or from an event dispatch, but fail miserably from idle_add?	22:40
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brontide	I've tried both gobject.idle_add and gtk.idle_add and they both hang. I think it's only when a dialog is shown. dialog.hide doesn't seem to do anything	22:41
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acydlord	hmm, is $99 a month worth 20mb fiber internets?	22:50
zap	JamieBennett: import gtk -> no module named gtk	22:50
terbo	acydlord: hmmm.....	22:50
Jaffa	acydlord: 20MB, or 20Mb?	22:51
JamieBennett	Umm, me things something isn't quite right with diablo just yet	22:51
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acydlord	20Mb	22:51
Jaffa	Caps?	22:51
brontide	zap: Nokia-N810-23-14:/usr/local/bin# dpkg --list \| grep python2.5-gtk	22:51
brontide	ii python2.5-gtk2 2.12.1-1osso3 Python bindings for the GTK+ widget set	22:51
acydlord	i gotta cal them tomorrow and fing out about caps and up speeds	22:51
Jaffa	And, presumably, given it's fiber(sic) you're pretty much guaranteed to actually get 20Mbps, unlike DSL.	22:52
zap	brontide: that's on diablo SDK?	22:52
terbo	static ip/servers? it all depends on your need for speed, man	22:52
brontide	Diablo	22:52
brontide	not SDK	22:52
zap	Diablo on N810?	22:52
acydlord	yeah	22:52
* Jaffa would be tempted. Currently paying around $50p.m. for "up to 24Mbps" ADSL2. But so far away from the exchange I actually get about 3.5		22:52
zap	well, we're talking about SDK	22:52
JamieBennett	brontide: nothing for the dpkg command, not installed	22:52
acydlord	they also have a 12Mb fiber package for 46 a month	22:52
brontide	I'll assume you've tried apt-get'ing it	22:53
zap	apt-cache search python does'nt reveal anything gtk-related	22:53
JamieBennett	of course	22:53
JamieBennett	zap: indeed	22:53
brontide	Isn't this just like nokia... wait wait wait.. quick it's out now we have to catch up	22:53
brontide	you would have though they would have these things rebuilt before the launch	22:54
JamieBennett	brontide: yeah and the fact that we as developers are left to twiddle our thumbs until Nokia decide to fix the problem	22:54
acydlord	those are all community added btw	22:54
zap	JamieBennett: I think you can just add chinook repos to your sdk and use pygtk from there	22:54
JamieBennett	zap: not ideal but its the only way at the moment I think	22:55
acydlord	you can	22:55
Tenkawa	Anyone else having problems with omweather crashing in diablo when you try to open settings?	22:55
zap	hmm, I have read somewhere Diablo added suspend-to-ram functionality	22:56
zap	but I don't see anything new in the power menu	22:56
Tenkawa	hmm	22:56
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acydlord	Tenkawa, mine crashed hildon-desk when i tried to access the settings with apt-worker open	22:56
acydlord	i'm going to try again in a sec after a reboot	22:57
Tenkawa	acydlord: interesting..	22:57
Tenkawa	zap: that would kinda be cool	22:57
zap	on all Russian maemo-related site the article about Diablo release mention this	22:58
Tenkawa	hmm	22:58
Tenkawa	yeah I havent seen it either in the menus	22:58
acydlord	Tenkawa, yep, settings crashes my dekstop completely	22:58
Tenkawa	oh wow its pouring outside	22:59
Tenkawa	acydlord: yeah same here.. bummer	22:59
Tenkawa	pidgin crashes status bar when I try to un-minimize it too	22:59
acydlord	i didnt install pidgin this time, just throwing all my accounts in the default messenger	23:00
Tenkawa	ahh	23:00
Tenkawa	maybe I should try that instead	23:00
lbt	hmm, in a C++ member, I set a private variable, then trigger a signal. In the signal listeners, they access the private variable through an accessor - and it's not updated.... why?	23:00
lbt	see http://pastebin.com/d745c66e8	23:01
acydlord	which repo is omweather in again?	23:01
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zap	damnit	23:03
zap	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1649&stc=1&d=1210449290	23:03
zap	suspend-to-ram was a devel feature :)	23:03
Tenkawa	bummer	23:03
Tenkawa	aol im is jabber based right?	23:03
acydlord	nope, oscar	23:04
Tenkawa	doh	23:04
acydlord	you probably need the addons for the rest of the protocols	23:04
Tenkawa	looking	23:04
lcuk	lbt, something up with your copy constructor for sState?	23:04
acydlord	packages.collabora.co.uk/maemo	23:04
acydlord	distro = chinook	23:04
acydlord	components = haze salut idle	23:05
zap	you can easily use icq/aol via any jabber->icq gateway	23:05
zap	like I do :)	23:05
Tenkawa	acydlord: thanks	23:05
acydlord	np	23:05
acydlord	zap, that makes it messy to track who's online if you have large lists	23:06
zap	?	23:06
zap	if you have large lists, you have large lists and that doesn't depend on the protocol	23:06
acydlord	whenever i tried that with jabber transports it would only show who was online on the jabber account	23:07
lbt	sState is typedef enum sState_ {A,B,C} sState;	23:07
zap	acydlord: I don't understand	23:07
zap	jabber->icq gateway worked always fine for me, you see icq users like regular jabber users, almost no difference	23:08
acydlord	it showed me status for people using jabber protocol, but for all the others it showed them as always offline	23:08
Tenkawa	hmmm	23:08
lcuk	lbt, have you tried doing the debug after you change but before you emit	23:08
lbt	lcuk: nah, it's something else - state seems to have local scope...	23:08
Tenkawa	acydlord: know what the package name is?	23:08
zap	acydlord: I guess you haven't registered with the JIT gateway, you must give it your ICQ UIN/password so that it can log into AOL for you	23:09
lcuk	lbt, its not that local - its certainly declared outside the method you pastebinned	23:09
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Tenkawa	acydlord: nm.. figured out my prob	23:09
lbt	private class member variable...	23:09
Tenkawa	my repo entry is broke	23:09
acydlord	ahh	23:10
lbt	sState state ;	23:10
acydlord	i have haze, salut, and bonjour support added to the default chat client, so that keeps me pretty much covered	23:10
lcuk	could any of your callbacks be forcing it back (or inside the emit_change)	23:10
Tenkawa	damn typo	23:10
Tenkawa	heeh	23:10
lbt	nope - accessor access only	23:10
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lbt	I just wondered if somehow the class variable wasn't updated until the method exited	23:11
lbt	which sounded wrong	23:11
lcuk	so nothing else in your class touches state?	23:11
lbt	but I'm pulling hair at the moment - I'm going to have to run gdb soon..!	23:11
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lbt	constructor	23:12
lbt	(but it screams so I'd see that)	23:12
lbt	get_state()	23:12
lbt	and it puts out '0' always...	23:13
lcuk	add another log entry above the emit	23:13
lbt	yep...	23:13
kkrusty	do breakpoints work in ESBox? yes/no	23:13
kkrusty	*yes/no/maybe	23:13
acydlord	ugh, i need to go take a shower	23:13
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eocanha	hi	23:17
eocanha	does diablo extras upload work the same way than chinook extras upload?	23:17
eocanha	I'm trying to upload my package and I'm getting scp errors:	23:18
eocanha	Uploading to diablo-extras (via scp to garage):	23:18
eocanha	Permission denied (publickey,keyboard-interactive).	23:18
eocanha	lost connection	23:18
eocanha		23:18
*** oilinki3 is now known as oilinki		23:19
Saviq	guys what's new in roadmap 1.1.0j-7 today?	23:19
lbt	lcuk: nah, something else is spooky: http://pastebin.com/d4dbf0262	23:20
lbt	the output is 2 calls - it's getting set to 0 somehow...	23:20
lcuk	reset more than likely, sounds like your object is being recreated	23:23
lcuk	ie calling the method on a new instance each time	23:23
lbt	That's what I thought - so the constructor screams on creation so I'd see that	23:23
lbt	hmm, no ddd in the scratchbox	23:23
lcuk	you sure the constructor you think you are calling is the one its using	23:24
lcuk	ie, have you got a no param constructor which is spraypainted and another with optional arguments which is silent	23:24
melmoth	eocanha: no, it doesnt	23:24
lbt	good point - will check...	23:25
melmoth	eocanha: you have to use the autobuilder to put them in extras-devel	23:25
melmoth	and then, if they build ok (good luck :-) ) push them to extras	23:25
eocanha	:-/	23:25
lbt	I did have - I wasn't using it ;)	23:26
melmoth	eocanha: http://extras-cauldron.garage.maemo.org/HOWTO.html	23:26
eocanha	thanks	23:26
zap	Are there any Diablo repositories? Or should I use chinook repos, including extras?	23:29
JamieBennett	chinook at the moment until its sorted out	23:29
zap	even no extras?	23:30
Saviq	use chinook	23:30
JamieBennett	zap: as was hinted earlier, Nokia has serious timing issues it seems, getting everything working on release day (or week) was not their priority!	23:31
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RST38h	Heh, looks like well-intentioned idea of herding everyone through autobuilder messed things up for everybody...	23:45
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lbt	lcuk - build dependencies on .h file was wrong. I think some class files weren't rebuilt and were accessing bad memory. Of course, now I've hacked it to buggery...	23:51
lcuk	make clean; make :)	23:51
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lbt	hmm, nope - maybe I spoke too soon...	23:52
lcuk	is the class small and encapulated or does it have a shedload of deps?	23:52
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lbt	small	23:53
acydlord	well thats the first time x-chat ever completely froze up on me	23:53
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lcuk	if its small enough pastebin it and ill see if i can replicate	23:56
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lbt	ok - just changed from a typedef enum to a simple int and #defines....	23:56
* sinak laterz		23:57
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