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| lcuk | damn evil eye goop. | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| lcuk | ~lart fucithalmic | 00:01 |
| * infobot pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps fucithalmic | 00:01 | |
| wazd | So much to think off ) | 00:01 |
| RST38h | A schoolboy aged 12 has been identified as an al-Qaeda inspired extremist after sending beheading videos to his classmates, police have disclosed. | 00:03 |
| RST38h | [what's wrong about sending beheading videos?] | 00:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 00:04 |
| wazd | Am I mistaking or in the 'maemo-wiki" there is no "anti-trolling" defence?) | 00:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Awesome. | 00:04 |
| ds3 | and couldn't he be inspired by the frogs^H^H^H^H^Hfrench? | 00:04 |
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| lcuk | wazd, GeneralAntilles is on guard, i think hes locked down anon editing for a while, please remove anything you do find | 00:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's no captcha at the moment | 00:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | I blocked anonymous edits over http for the time being | 00:05 |
| lcuk | hes not answering now because hes just opening an email from RST38h | 00:05 |
| lcuk | :P | 00:05 |
| lbt | there is - it's called "registering" | 00:05 |
| wazd | luck, well, no now it's all ok, but anybody can delete all of the stuff :) | 00:05 |
| wazd | lcuk, sorry :) | 00:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's easy enough to revert. | 00:05 |
| lcuk | thats what a wiki is for | 00:05 |
| wazd | that's good :) | 00:06 |
| lcuk | hopefully productive users add good content faster than the trolls can fill in crap or wipe stuff | 00:06 |
| lcuk | its your stereotypical good vs evil debate thats raged throughout the galaxy | 00:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | It'll likely end up that anonymous edits aren't allowed | 00:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | and it's damn easy to block trolling accounts. ;) | 00:07 |
| wazd | Trolling means popularity :) | 00:07 |
| RST38h | I hope maemo.org logins work? | 00:07 |
| lcuk | or just quim is drunk at the keyboard again | 00:07 |
| wazd | yep, all clear :) | 00:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | wiki uses Garage accounts | 00:07 |
| wazd | I have suc h a huge material on "how to upgrade developing collaboration process" but it's so huge so it will take tons of time to make it written and drawn :) | 00:09 |
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| wazd | Diablo is really speedy, just like real diablo :) | 00:11 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hmm, real diablo, i wouldn't know... | 00:12 |
| wazd | lambo i mean ;) | 00:12 |
| khertan | real Diablo isn't really fast | 00:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 00:12 |
| lbt | Next release should be called Tuscan | 00:12 |
| khertan | specially when you r waiting to fully the tank | 00:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, I like that idea. :D | 00:13 |
| wazd | Concorde :) | 00:13 |
| lbt | great balls of fire! | 00:13 |
| khertan | ouch download finished | 00:13 |
| khertan | 1 hours | 00:13 |
| khertan | huhu | 00:13 |
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| lcuk | is diablo actually faster? | 00:14 |
| wazd | yep, much | 00:14 |
| lcuk | mmm will have to try | 00:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Probably mostly placebo | 00:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | and/or the clean install effect | 00:15 |
| lcuk | i bet noone knows if i can still install gcc and all dev stuff | 00:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | There have been a lot of improvements | 00:15 |
| wazd | At least media player and MicroB is faster :) | 00:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Especially in Application manager | 00:15 |
| lcuk | well mine already runs superquick anywa (performance mode effects whole system) | 00:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Media player doesn't choke out on UPnP shares now. | 00:15 |
| kkrusty | the theme is nice | 00:15 |
| kkrusty | :) | 00:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's no different from Chinook. | 00:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just different background. | 00:16 |
| kkrusty | in that case. The background is nice | 00:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | For nice backgrounds: http://interfacelift.com/wallpaper/index.php?sort=date&aspect=mobile_devices | 00:16 |
| wazd | I was thinking, maybe if there is "update on the air" now, Nokia can bundle more software in the box?) | 00:16 |
| wazd | Well, it was always there | 00:17 |
| wazd | the background :) | 00:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Personally, I'd rather see Nokia putting their efforts into the platform stuff | 00:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | leave the software to 3rd parties not encumbered by Nokia's retarded UI specs. | 00:18 |
| wazd | I think application manager must be more integrated in the maemo.org download section. With pearls. fresh, popular, ratings and comments | 00:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Big thunderstorm coming . . . let's see if the power manages to stay up for round 2. <_< | 00:18 |
| wazd | maybe I should write this stuff into maemoUI | 00:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, I agree. | 00:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:GeneralAntilles/Improving_the_Application_manager | 00:18 |
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| wazd | Woow! Nice! | 00:19 |
| qwerty12_N800 | I wish nokia would put in a "do not show this message for future installs again" checkbox for the legal message. | 00:20 |
| lcuk | but future installs might not be you | 00:20 |
| kkrusty | canola works with diablo? | 00:20 |
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| GeneralAntilles | kkrusty, Diablo is 99% compatible with Chinook. | 00:20 |
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| Addison | Hey, what's going on fellas? :) | 00:21 |
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| kkrusty | GeneralAntilles: I see... | 00:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, I recall there being an article on the statusbar applets on your UI blog, did you ever see http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/advanced-backlight/ ? | 00:21 |
| wazd | but OMWeather crashes :) | 00:21 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, I still don't see the point of that message anyway, it's just nokia being pussies, I've never had a message like that on any of my mobile devices. | 00:21 |
| wazd | General, yep, it's great, I'm using it all day) | 00:22 |
| Addison | Quick question. Could someone term the "gonf" command so that I can have a 14 font size for TerminusRe33-Bold in Xterm? I'm using the latest Chinook OS. | 00:22 |
| Addison | Thanks. | 00:22 |
| lcuk | qwerty12_N800, have your other mobile devices had unsigned software installs? | 00:22 |
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| ryoohki | i just flashed my n800 to the latest version of os2008 and went to reinstall mplayer but no go - the one click install won't work and neither will anything else i tried | 00:22 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, yes | 00:22 |
| Addison | Heya qwerty! | 00:22 |
| wazd | But it's not my idea, like for examle, Andrew's large statusbar clock :) | 00:22 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Hi Addison :) | 00:22 |
| Addison | What's up big daddy? | 00:22 |
| lcuk | wasd, your blog - care to give me a link? | 00:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | ryoohki, duplicate the maemo Extras entry add "chinook" to the distribution line. | 00:23 |
| wazd | http://tabletui.wordpress.com | 00:23 |
| * lcuk sees the error of his googling ways | 00:23 | |
| wazd | welcome :) | 00:23 |
| lbt | details here ryoohki http://wiki.maemo.org/Installation#Diablo_Extras | 00:23 |
| lcuk | thanks :) | 00:23 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Addison, Nothing much, /me just still tired :/ | 00:23 |
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| GeneralAntilles | wazd, no, it's the result of an idea I had been trying to find somebody to code up since early 2006. ;) | 00:23 |
| Addison | Hey General, could you give me a little help with your TerminusRe33-Bold font? I'd like to have it set at 14 but Xterm only allows for either a 12 or 16 through the menu selection. | 00:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not my field, Addison. ;) | 00:24 |
| wazd | Post your ideas there if you like, and I can make illustrations if you like again :) | 00:24 |
| Addison | Okay General. Thought you of all people wouldn't have know. | 00:24 |
| lcuk | wazd, im not sure if you've seen the stuff ive been writing, but making the most out of the tablet is high on my priorities | 00:24 |
| Addison | known = know. | 00:24 |
| wazd | lcuk, no, can you give me a link?) | 00:25 |
| lcuk | sure | 00:25 |
| qwerty12_N800 | wazd, GeneralAntilles, brilliant mockups | 00:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mock ups are fun | 00:25 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUPp_mE7rwI overview vid, in the description theres a link to downloads and ITT thread | 00:25 |
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| wazd | BTW, one of my UI ideas is already heading the way to the real world :) | 00:26 |
| * lcuk hand codes mockups | 00:26 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | Photoshop is fast enough | 00:26 |
| wazd | lcuk, wooohohohohooooooowo!111 | 00:27 |
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| lcuk | :) sketching is faster | 00:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | For making mock-ups that look like the real thing? I think not. ;) | 00:27 |
| ryoohki | lbt: this page must have changd http://wiki.maemo.org/Installation#Diablo_Extras | 00:27 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, haven't you seen the art posted on the forums ? | 00:27 |
| wazd | No words | 00:28 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, it's quite impressive, actually | 00:28 |
| lcuk | my real life interface is hand drawn :) ive always imagined widgets and ui elements drawn | 00:28 |
| lcuk | wazd, you can download and play yourself | 00:28 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, hey mate :) | 00:28 |
| lcuk | hi crashanddie :) art? forums? | 00:28 |
| lcuk | not sketches yet then? | 00:28 |
| wazd | lcuk, thats hell impressive!11!! | 00:29 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, you insensitive clod, how could you keep me up for so long yesterday | 00:29 |
| lcuk | :) thank you | 00:29 |
| lbt | ryoohki: I guess someone reverted my work - ah well | 00:29 |
| crashanddie | this morning was murder, trying to get up with 2 hours of sleep | 00:29 |
| Addison | So I take it no one here knows how to use the gconf command in Xterm to change the font size? Sorry for the unrelenting, obsessive questioning. :D | 00:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, let me know when you can free-hand something like this. ;) http://tabletui.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/web_12.jpg | 00:29 |
| lcuk | sorry, i wasnt much better, and before work i had to put evil eye drops in | 00:29 |
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| wazd | Dang, how did you get kinetic scrolling so smooth?) | 00:29 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, anytime of the day, given the correct resolution | 00:30 |
| qwerty12_N800 | GeneralAntilles, For me, in the latest diablo image, the repo refresh button is enabled in the main view. | 00:30 |
| ds3 | anyone plant to write a Symbian emulator for Linux once they open it? | 00:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800, did you hack? It's not here. | 00:30 |
| lcuk | wazd :) hand coded every pixel using the only display format available thats almost tear free :) | 00:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, OK, right now. ;) | 00:30 |
| ryoohki | lbt: maybe it's in the history of the page | 00:30 |
| crashanddie | lcuk & GeneralAntilles: and yeah, I misunderstood the point of the discussion, I thought photoshop was cited as tool for making art, against the tablet option, not UI | 00:31 |
| qwerty12_N800 | GeneralAntilles, No hacks, stock diablo application manager. I have red pill on but that's it. | 00:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, :P | 00:31 |
| lbt | nope - but I'm not sure that shows reversions? | 00:31 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, I'm tired, some other day, will ya :P | 00:31 |
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| wazd | lcuk, thats tooo impressive :) | 00:31 |
| crashanddie | brb, forgot the NIT in the car | 00:31 |
| Addison | Hey qwerty, did you get my last two messages? I'm using that java.freenode.net thing again. Not sure if I'm using it correctly. | 00:31 |
| lcuk | wazd, i found out that YUV format (same as movie player) can display things better than SDL etc. however there are no drawing aids for writing to YUV, so i made them, now ive started working towards building the ui i need for other things | 00:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800, it's not here | 00:32 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Addison, No, i didn't get the messages. | 00:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Red Pill doesn't change anything, either. | 00:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hrm, spoke too soon | 00:32 |
| wazd | lcuk, the only thing I can argue with you is book reader :) | 00:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Red Pill does change things after you restart Application manager. | 00:32 |
| lcuk | wazd, touch interface needs a fast refresh. nokia tablets were letting themselves down. i needed speed to do what i want to do | 00:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Still, that's not a solution. ;) | 00:32 |
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| lcuk | wazd, what do you mean | 00:32 |
| qwerty12_N800 | GeneralAntilles, I 'll patch that for blue pill if you want? | 00:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Thanks, but I'm not too worried about it | 00:33 |
| wazd | lcuk, well, natural action when you reading normal book, that you turning the page and send your eyes to the top | 00:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | it's just something that needs to be fixed in the shipping Application manager. | 00:33 |
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| wazd | the simpliest way to emulate this process on PDA is to simply switch page) | 00:34 |
| lcuk | wazd, i dont expect it to be used fully like that all the time, but for the last few years ive used a program called iSolo and it has automatic scrolling. i just replicated it as a test of performance - ie once i knew i could do it i would. i want the kinetic text for document editing not reading | 00:34 |
| wazd | but maybe I missunderstood you and you meant different than continuous scrolling :) | 00:35 |
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| lcuk | on maemo, in fbreader - its anoying as feck to turn pages because its either too sensitive or its not enough and im always frustrated, my page renderer has clean page by page | 00:36 |
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| crashanddie | back | 00:37 |
| wazd | lcuk, are you planning to make some "not-showcase" software based on that "oooh-aaaah"?) | 00:37 |
| kkrusty | lcuk: do you get that presistant scrolling problem? | 00:38 |
| lcuk | yes, but because of limited time (i work as well) i put number one first :) | 00:38 |
| lcuk | kkrusty, which one | 00:38 |
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| Addison | Ah poopers. I posted a rotated keyboard in the Apps forum and not so much as a dim flicker of recognition from anyone. | 00:39 |
| crashanddie | kkrusty, the lag, in the code editor ? | 00:39 |
| Addison | Then depression sets in. :) | 00:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | kkrusty, FBReader has a fix for that in settings. | 00:39 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, fbreader for me has a problem going backwards when i am near the end of a large (4-500pages) book, i dont notice it earlier usually cos i dont normally go back | 00:39 |
| lcuk | it takes 3-4seconds to respond just one page bacwards | 00:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | I practically never go back. | 00:40 |
| kkrusty | Well it happens with generally all viewers that if I'm just a bit too overzealous in scrolling up or down, it tends to presistantly scroll | 00:40 |
| lcuk | with the super "undisablable touch screen to goto next page" setting i always end up needing to go back | 00:41 |
| kkrusty | then I have to scroll in the opposite direction as if trying to catch an escaping monkey | 00:41 |
| lcuk | theres no bezel on the 810 to hold properly | 00:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Er, you can disable that. . . . | 00:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Have been able to for a while now. | 00:41 |
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| kkrusty | GeneralAntilles: I can? | 00:41 |
| lcuk | i tohught it would tell me of updates.. | 00:41 |
| lcuk | hmm | 00:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, lcuk. | 00:42 |
| ryoohki | lbt: can't find the revision - can you help? | 00:42 |
| kkrusty | GeneralAntilles: right | 00:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | But FBReader has a fix for the scrolling issue in its settings, kkrusty. | 00:42 |
| kkrusty | GeneralAntilles: awesome | 00:42 |
| * lcuk does like fbreader | 00:42 | |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, figure out a way to put your text rendering in place of FBReader's | 00:42 |
| lbt | ryoohki: added it now, FWIW :) http://wiki.maemo.org/Upgrading_tablet_OS#Diablo_Extras | 00:43 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | i don't think sdl, xsp go well in hildon interface | 00:43 |
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| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, one step ahead :) | 00:43 |
| wazd | lcuk, it writes me "permission denied" :( | 00:44 |
| wazd | red pill?) | 00:44 |
| lcuk | noooo | 00:44 |
| qwerty12_N800 | wazd, chmod +x | 00:44 |
| lcuk | what gives permission denied | 00:44 |
| wazd | ./liqbase :) | 00:44 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, please use tar.gz instead of zip next time | 00:44 |
| Addison | Okay, well I need to go shop for a birthday present for the wife right now. I'm thinking about getting her a new toilet seat. That's a good gift isn't it? :) | 00:44 |
| Addison | Thanks again Qwerty! See ya guys! | 00:45 |
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| wazd | well, still denied :) | 00:46 |
| qwerty12_N800 | meh, i just did chmod +x ./liqbase and it worked | 00:46 |
| wazd | orly :) | 00:47 |
| wazd | nothing happened :) | 00:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, do you have it on one of the cards? | 00:47 |
| wazd | yep | 00:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's the problem. | 00:47 |
| wazd | aw hell :) | 00:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | FAT doesn't have permission bits. ;) | 00:47 |
| lcuk | wazd, you need to put it onto a location that allows execution | 00:47 |
| lcuk | the mmc doesnt because its fat | 00:48 |
| wazd | fat cow... xD | 00:48 |
| * lcuk is now behind the cruve ;) | 00:48 | |
| lcuk | and getting worse... | 00:48 |
| lcuk | what do people think about the 2000 stars by the way ? | 00:49 |
| lcuk | and the menu system? | 00:49 |
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| kkrusty | 2000 stars? | 00:49 |
| lcuk | yes, the startup screen contains 2000 stars :) i thought more was overkill and on powersave it crawled ;) | 00:50 |
| kkrusty | really? I must see that | 00:51 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUPp_mE7rwI | 00:51 |
| lcuk | and theres a link in there to grab a binary and see for yourself | 00:51 |
| wazd | hell, i'll never learn this f*#&ing console) | 00:51 |
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| lcuk | sorry - packaging isnt a strong point, hell most of linux is still weak to me | 00:51 |
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| * lcuk fails | 00:52 | |
| lcuk | wazd, i bet you aren't root either are you | 00:52 |
| wazd | well, it doesn't write anything to the console but nothingg happens | 00:53 |
| lbt | lcuk: 2000? not 2008 :) | 00:53 |
| lcuk | ok, theres 2008, and i challenge anyone to count them | 00:54 |
| lcuk | wicked http://www.newscientist.com/blog/technology/2008/06/dual-display-e-book-reader-lets-you.html | 00:54 |
| lcuk | ive gotta get another 810 and do that! | 00:55 |
| kkrusty | where do you volunteer for maemo projects? | 00:55 |
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| GeneralAntilles | "projects"? | 00:56 |
| kkrusty | the garage website seems similar to sourceforge | 00:56 |
| wazd | lcuk, help, your demo not starting :) | 00:56 |
| kkrusty | I was thinking that there would've been a "help wanted" page | 00:56 |
| lcuk | kkrusty, didnt we answer this for you the other day: find something that bugs you, see what you can do to help. even if you donjt get fully involved you will have solved your own problem and possibly others | 00:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | kkrusty, I think it depends on the project. | 00:56 |
| wazd | kkrusty, there is such a button in the garrage | 00:57 |
| wazd | "Help needed" :) | 00:57 |
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| Veggen | the cards are mounted with "noexec" option, it has nothing to do with file system permissions, actually. | 00:57 |
| lcuk | ok wazd, copy the whole folder to somewhere executable ( /home/user/MyDocs/liqbase or something) | 00:57 |
| * kkrusty shuts up | 00:57 | |
| wazd | lcuk it's now in MyDocs | 00:57 |
| lcuk | ok, from the shell, cd into that folder | 00:57 |
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| lcuk | and type ./liqbase and tell me what happens | 00:58 |
| |penguinbait| | is ITT dying or is it just me? | 00:58 |
| wazd | but just nothing happends on chmod +x ./liqbase | 00:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | |penguinbait|, the server or the "community"? :P | 00:58 |
| wazd | Aw | 00:58 |
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| wazd | it started without chmod :) | 00:58 |
| wazd | Stupid me :) | 00:59 |
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| |penguinbait| | community is not dying, which may be why its the server | 00:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | itT is pretty pathetic these days. | 00:59 |
| |penguinbait| | el Diablo I assume | 00:59 |
| Veggen | Hmm. Was Chinook ipv6-ready? | 00:59 |
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| lcuk | ok, there are 2 other things that might have gone wrong: (1) as normal user you cannot run it at fullspeed, you need to be root. (2) if you did not create the folder: /home/user/MyDocs/_apg it cannot save any sketches | 01:00 |
| wazd | wow, Stars are really awesome, especially in lower resolutions :) | 01:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Veggen, no. | 01:00 |
| Veggen | well, there's ipv6 support of some sort in Diablo. | 01:00 |
| lcuk | wazd, at fullspeed they are awesomer :) i run at performance 99% of the time now :) | 01:00 |
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| * lcuk was playing with the idea of automatically rooting and running in performance mode.. | 01:01 | |
| lbt | lcuk: well, you could setuid | 01:01 |
| Veggen | but this is probably already known. I'm afraid I haven't followed/read the full "what do we know about Diablo"-thread in iTT :) | 01:02 |
| kkrusty | lcuk: Well for instance I would've wanted to work on gngeo but 1) I cant seem to get the source 2) Im not sure the project is active either. Asking here would've been better if for instance some person actually needs people for his projects (which happens a lot in OSS). But I'll follow your suggestion... | 01:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Diablo added IPv6 | 01:02 |
| lcuk | gngeo as in gaming emulator? | 01:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's been known for a while. | 01:03 |
| kkrusty | lcuk: yes | 01:03 |
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| wazd | lcuk, thats very very impressive. Hope you'll develop anithing out of that showcase :) | 01:03 |
| lcuk | kkrusty, keep your eye out for pupnik, he is gaming god and has lots of emulators on his site ready for 810, also RST38h is developing something i believe | 01:04 |
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| lcuk | pupnik.de i think is his site | 01:04 |
| kkrusty | lcuk: cool! thanks | 01:04 |
| lcuk | yes, start there | 01:04 |
| m-vo | Finale! Ohohoho! | 01:04 |
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| lcuk | pupnik was requesting people to get involved and see whether they can be made better | 01:05 |
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| lcuk | wazd, i use it everyday, it isnt just technology. it holds my dinner orders or things i want to code at night or bug info or documentation | 01:06 |
| lcuk | i have 500sketches already | 01:07 |
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| lcuk | i have always doodled on paper and wrote short bursts of code, and ive always wanted a way to get them in quickly and manage and tag them so i dont have to rewrite the same thing on the next notepad | 01:08 |
| wazd | ah, why am I a simple designer, but not a coder( | 01:08 |
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| lcuk | so when released i should be able to say this sketch is related to x y z (with quick clicks on mini sketches...) and allow my ideas to evolve | 01:08 |
| lcuk | i never delete sketches so i can see the evolution of an idea | 01:09 |
| lcuk | :) nokia device is allowing me to achieve all this | 01:09 |
| * lcuk still thinks powervr 3d drivers would make life better though | 01:10 | |
| lcuk | im gonna go grab some food anyway :) cyas later | 01:10 |
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| wazd | you can write some tutorials on how does this thing works and how to use it in the software for example) | 01:11 |
| wazd | Well, I'm gonna go grab some sleep anyway, cause it's too late in here :) See yas :) | 01:11 |
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| bmidgle1 | can os2008 find a wifi access point that doesn't broadcast the essid? | 01:15 |
| phacka | hello | 01:16 |
| phacka | has anybody had any luck installing mogg on new diablo update ? | 01:17 |
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| ryoohki | what is OS2008HE? | 01:27 |
| Atarii | 2008 OS for the 770 | 01:28 |
| ryoohki | ok | 01:28 |
| ryoohki | Atarii: thanks! | 01:28 |
| Atarii | np | 01:29 |
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| wnd | nice. no more compiling the kernel just to get ipv6. :-) | 01:41 |
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| Veggen | but not all networking tools are ipv6-enabled. | 01:43 |
| Veggen | I was digging around, and couldn't understand why the hell it didn't get an ipv6 adress...module loaded: check. autoconf enabled: check. Autoconf works on other machines on the network: check. | 01:43 |
| _afk | any cheap but decent fullsized pen tablets around? | 01:43 |
| _afk | damn | 01:43 |
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| wnd | Veggen, did you check "ip addr"? | 01:43 |
| lcuk | better | 01:43 |
| Veggen | wnd: nope, only ifconfig :) | 01:44 |
| wnd | looks like busybox ifconfig simply doesn't show ipv6 | 01:44 |
| Veggen | (which didn't show it) | 01:44 |
| Veggen | ah, of course. busybox. | 01:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | bmidgle1, I believe you have to add it manually from the connection manager. | 01:45 |
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| wnd | http://wnd.katei.fi/maemo/misc/loadipv6_0.2_all.deb for those who are interested (thanks GeneralAntilles for reminding) | 01:53 |
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| lcuk | OMG!!!!!! | 02:01 |
| lcuk | i was just playing with liqbase and just doing what i do until i pressed a key and was told to slide [| ] to unlock | 02:01 |
| lcuk | locked isnt really locked, its just not normally watched for - isn't that a bug? | 02:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Huh? | 02:04 |
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| johnx | lcuk, it might depend on how you draw your window | 02:05 |
| johnx | for instance, how high it is set to stack over other windows | 02:05 |
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| lcuk | regardless - the operating system should be prevented from input when locked | 02:05 |
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| lcuk | it blocks keypresses (because it shouts at me | 02:06 |
| lcuk | let me just test something | 02:07 |
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| johnx | lcuk, lock isn't an OS level event | 02:09 |
| johnx | it's an x server level event AFAIK | 02:09 |
| lcuk | but something sits watching the input chain because it does block key events | 02:10 |
| lcuk | ! ahhhhhhh, i am talking via mouse x extension thingy | 02:10 |
| lcuk | lemme just see | 02:10 |
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| lcuk | ok: xv displays through the lock just like it does when you are playing movies, keys are blocked because they are standard. i wonder if any other applications are using the Xsp mouse extension library | 02:12 |
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| lcuk | ahhh well, ill just watch for it when i hildonize | 02:14 |
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| sinak_ | minefield is too heavy for N800 | 02:27 |
| sinak_ | anything lighter? | 02:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Uh . . . MicroB? :\ | 02:27 |
| sinak_ | is microb a browser? | 02:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, the built-in one. . . . | 02:28 |
| sinak_ | i don't like that | 02:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It's the best option | 02:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Everything else sucks right now. | 02:29 |
| sinak_ | i want tabbed browsing | 02:29 |
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| GeneralAntilles | We really don't have the RAM for that. | 02:30 |
| sinak_ | s#@t | 02:31 |
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| lcuk | gen? | 02:33 |
| lcuk | open in new window works, why cant we open in new tab | 02:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcu? | 02:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia UI spec | 02:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | See the bug | 02:34 |
| lcuk | its the interface used for changing thats important | 02:34 |
| lcuk | its horrid swiching by going to the menu | 02:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | But open-in-new window tends to result in running out of RAM rather rapidly after 5 or so windows | 02:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | I agree | 02:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | I want tabbed browsing, too. | 02:34 |
| lcuk | or "something" better than now | 02:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1695 | 02:34 |
| lcuk | i wonder if a mac app switcher would work | 02:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Er, a Dock clone? | 02:35 |
| lcuk | single hardware home keypress shows all apps | 02:35 |
| lcuk | alt tab thingy | 02:35 |
| bmidgle1 | GeneralAntilles fwiw, I can't find a place in connection manager to manually add a wifi ap | 02:35 |
| bmidgle1 | (re non-broadcast ssid) | 02:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Connection manager: Menu -> Tools -> Connectivity settings...: Connections...: New . . . | 02:36 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, that might actually work nicely and probably abate most other problems | 02:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, that's sorta what we have now. | 02:36 |
| lcuk | no, we display a list | 02:36 |
| bmidgle1 | GeneralAntilles ah, thanks | 02:37 |
| lcuk | why cant it pop to previews | 02:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Er, you mean Expose-like, then. | 02:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Until we get OpenGL. . . . | 02:37 |
| lcuk | i dont know what the feature is | 02:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expos%C3%A9_%28Mac_OS_X%29 | 02:37 |
| lcuk | yes | 02:37 |
| lcuk | :) | 02:37 |
| * lcuk has a visual memory | 02:38 | |
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| crashanddie | "The average desk harbors 400 times more bacteria than a toilet seat" | 02:42 |
| crashanddie | Blimey ! | 02:42 |
| johnx | crashanddie, and the locus of that is the keyboard | 02:42 |
| johnx | keyboards are gross O_o | 02:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Toilet seats are actually pretty clean. | 02:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | So it's a pretty meaningless metric. | 02:43 |
| crashanddie | yeah, agreed | 02:43 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Things that hands touch frequently are usually pretty germ-infested. | 02:43 |
| crashanddie | I think the worst part of a house are the doorhandles | 02:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just look at it like a good way to keep your immune system in shape. ;) | 02:43 |
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| GeneralAntilles | You don't use it, you lose it. | 02:43 |
| crashanddie | heh | 02:45 |
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| crashanddie | Richard hammond has a desk that reaches the levels of bacteria of used underwear :D | 02:46 |
| lcuk | if you think your desk is bad, consider how much you hold your nokia | 02:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 02:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | I used to work at a bookstore in a downtown area with lots of transients around. | 02:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | There was this old guy that worked there, had a beard down to the middle of his chest | 02:47 |
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| lcuk | richard stallman? | 02:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | looked a bit like a thin ZZ Top | 02:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | or a thin stallman. :D | 02:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | We called him "the Bum Whisperer" | 02:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | he could kick anybody out of the store and make them think they were leaving voluntarily | 02:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anyway, he would always shake these nasty transient's hands | 02:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | and I asked him how he could stand to do that one time, he said it was "to keep the immune system in shape" | 02:48 |
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| crashanddie | makes sense | 02:49 |
| lcuk | also, when he went to kick others out and held out his stinking festering hand at them they would run a mile voluntarily ;) | 02:49 |
| crashanddie | I'm pretty sure our body would compare pretty poorly to say, the body of a regular joe 200 years ago | 02:50 |
| lcuk | he was loading up his poison arrows on the transients and using it as a weapon | 02:50 |
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| johnx | crashanddie, yeah, except for all those nice immunity shots we get as kids | 02:50 |
| lcuk | maybe, but nowadays i would be more patient | 02:50 |
| sinak_ | when i click on Show Installed application i get "no applications installed" | 02:51 |
| lcuk | chances are they would be gone by early 40s/50s? | 02:51 |
| sinak_ | what had happened? | 02:51 |
| crashanddie | johnx, I'm talking about basic "fierceness" of out body | 02:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | sinak_, try restarting? | 02:51 |
| sinak_ | i did it | 02:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, 200 years ago, yes. | 02:51 |
| sinak_ | didn't help | 02:51 |
| johnx | crashanddie, hmm...maybe? | 02:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hunter gatherer societies were definitely healthier than agrarian ones, though. | 02:51 |
| lcuk | sinak_, in the menu you can refresh the app list | 02:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's not in the menu in Diablo | 02:52 |
| johnx | sinak_, did you actually install anything new? or is this a clean diablo install? | 02:52 |
| lcuk | that should force everything to be rebuilt if its gone corrupt? | 02:52 |
| lcuk | o rly? | 02:52 |
| lcuk | how do you do it | 02:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a button | 02:52 |
| sinak_ | is not clean install | 02:52 |
| lcuk | ahh, not removed, just moved | 02:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Application_manager_summary_mock-up.png | 02:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bottom right in that shot. | 02:53 |
| lcuk | i see | 02:53 |
| sinak_ | i tried refreshing the list from menu and i get: | 02:53 |
| crashanddie | johnx, I mean, overall, we take the car to get a piece of bread, we send an email to the office next door, we are staggered when there isn't a bus and we have to walk through 10 minutes of snow (that hardly touches the ground). Honestly, we're just less prepared. In some way, if we were to fall into a dark age, most of us would have a pretty shitty experience. Because we (our body) wouldn't know what's happening. | 02:53 |
| lcuk | ouroboros | 02:53 |
| crashanddie | [/rant] | 02:53 |
| crashanddie | back to coding | 02:53 |
| sinak_ | "unable to refresh application list. unable to access catalogues. Check network connection." | 02:53 |
| johnx | crashanddie, heh...not much of that applies to people who regularly deal with public transportation | 02:54 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, :) ditto | 02:54 |
| * GeneralAntilles faces-palms at the mouse-pointer in his mock-ups. | 02:54 | |
| sinak_ | what sould i do? | 02:54 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, FAIL! (i've waited a while to say that ;)) | 02:54 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Ehehe | 02:54 |
| sinak_ | the only app i installed lately was, minefield | 02:55 |
| lcuk | sinak_, perhaps you could check your network connection | 02:55 |
| lcuk | sinak_, look at the repository list and untick anything thats not default | 02:55 |
| sinak_ | i'm connected | 02:55 |
| sinak_ | i'll try the repository thing | 02:55 |
| lcuk | leave the normal nokia stuff, it is having trouble accessing a repo | 02:55 |
| lcuk | you have used .install files from websites to install software | 02:56 |
| lcuk | they generally add extra repositories which can sometimes be offline.. but those repositories offer versions of the software your system expects to be standard. (i hope im right here) | 02:57 |
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| sinak_ | the problem was the repositories :-) | 02:58 |
| sinak_ | i had add something that it didn't work | 02:58 |
| lcuk | now, put a comment on the website you got the game from and tell them to use the nokia extras repository | 02:58 |
| lcuk | its possibly a maemo.org one, but this kind of problem may occur for others, if all the software is inside the maemo extras catalog it will be better for all :D | 02:59 |
| sinak_ | it was a repo from minefield | 02:59 |
| sinak_ | *for | 03:00 |
| lcuk | ahhh well, anyway have you got installed apps again | 03:00 |
| sinak_ | yes it works fine now | 03:01 |
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| n800m | can i use diablo with the rotation thingy? | 03:03 |
| n800m | or does it come with it? | 03:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 03:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, it's not bundled. | 03:03 |
| n800m | orly? | 03:05 |
| n800m | everything works so well on my chinook... | 03:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | It should work fine | 03:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | I haven't tested it directly, though. | 03:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Rotation support is a LONG way from being official. | 03:05 |
| johnx | I bet it never goes official actually... | 03:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't know about that. | 03:06 |
| johnx | it would probably be nice if someone re-applied the rotation patches to diablo versions of everything | 03:07 |
| johnx | xomap wasn't updated, was it? | 03:07 |
| lcuk | ill be playing duke nukem forever in 3d on my nokia rotated 90 degrees one day. | 03:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Fremantle is stacking up to be quite a change up. | 03:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | So who knows what'll come from that. | 03:07 |
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| johnx | the 80% solution for rotation (which we already have is pretty simple...but I think the 100% solution would be pretty hard | 03:08 |
| johnx | and Nokia doesn't seem to like shipping things that aren't completely ready | 03:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ehehe | 03:09 |
| n800m | microB - how much faster? | 03:11 |
| n800m | hm i don't think i'll switch just yet | 03:11 |
| johnx | not much different here, if at all. Waiting seems like a valid strategy | 03:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a little faster | 03:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | depends on your use-case, really. | 03:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Personally, I don't see the point in waiting. | 03:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | SSU is here now. ;) | 03:12 |
| n800m | hehe | 03:13 |
| n800m | are there compatibility issues as far as apps? | 03:13 |
| johnx | n800m, not for most apps | 03:13 |
| johnx | it seems desktop applets can present some issues | 03:13 |
| n800m | http://www.pixelgirlpresents.com/desktops.php? | 03:15 |
| n800m | there's a lot of cutesy stuff there but some really nice ones too | 03:15 |
| * johnx raids his n800 wallpaper from flickr | 03:18 | |
| GeneralAntilles | InterfaceLIFT! | 03:22 |
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| johnx | flickr has a better search | 03:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Meh, I'm never looking for anything specific anyway | 03:36 |
| n800m | planning a deb soon lcuk? | 03:39 |
| lcuk | i suppose it may have to happen eventually | 03:41 |
| lcuk | if i can get it installed on peoples computers easier and configured automatically you can get the best experience | 03:41 |
| lcuk | gnite folks \, | 03:43 |
| lcuk | OMG! who shrunk my head | 03:43 |
| lcuk | \o even | 03:43 |
| johnx | 'night | 03:43 |
| johnx | if the source is up somewhere I could make a .deb | 03:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 03:45 |
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| n800m | activate on key release | 03:49 |
| n800m | something like that | 03:49 |
| n800m | the touchscreen is still sensitive tho | 03:49 |
| n800m | i disabled touchscreen scrolling | 03:49 |
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| * sinak_ gn | 03:51 | |
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| henrique | hi, is maemo-mapper intended to be used as a GPS navigator? | 03:57 |
| johnx | it can be, but it needs inet access to do routing | 03:57 |
| henrique | or should I try to find something like gpsdrive instead? | 03:57 |
| johnx | I've also heard about navit and roadmap (sp?) | 03:58 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Maemo Mapper is based on gpsdrive | 03:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | henrique, the best bet is to try it and see if it works for you. | 03:59 |
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| henrique | yes, I would like to help developing missing features that can improve the use of the program as a gps navigator | 03:59 |
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| ds3 | support roadmap!! | 04:00 |
| johnx | henrique, such as offline routing? | 04:00 |
| henrique | but looking at the maemo-mapper website I found that gpsdrive and now I'm not sure if maemo-mapper is the correct project to do this | 04:00 |
| henrique | johnx, yes, something like this | 04:00 |
| johnx | if you can figure out a way to do it, I'm sure gnuite (the maemo-mapper dev) would be interested | 04:01 |
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| henrique | ds3, is there a website? | 04:01 |
| ds3 | yeah, the original non Maemo version has a website | 04:02 |
| ds3 | the IIT threads + garage are the main docs for the Maemo port | 04:02 |
| johnx | from what I understand it would be somewhat difficult as the maps that maemo-mapper uses are just pictures. | 04:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Be nice to integrate good vector support into Maemo Mapper. | 04:02 |
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| henrique | johnx, yes I've requested permission to join the project at the garage, I'll try to compile a list of suggestions until next week | 04:02 |
| ds3 | the 3D views on roadmap is cool but the interface is too hookie | 04:03 |
| johnx | henrique, ah, cool | 04:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | What does Roadmap use, anyway? | 04:03 |
| ds3 | originally TIGER now both TIGER and OSM | 04:03 |
| ds3 | or you mean the UI? :) | 04:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, the source maps. | 04:04 |
| ds3 | TIGER for US and OSM for elsewhere | 04:04 |
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| johnx | sadly, OSM is kinda not helpful here :/ | 04:11 |
| ds3 | TIGER is nice in that I can have the entire US on my internal SD | 04:17 |
| johnx | which would definitely be swell if I was in the US | 04:17 |
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| crashanddie | heh | 04:17 |
| ds3 | :) | 04:17 |
| ds3 | blame it on mr roosevelt ;) | 04:18 |
| johnx | heck, I'd contribute to OSM but I don't have a car here | 04:18 |
| ds3 | he could've made your place part of the US | 04:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 04:18 |
| johnx | heh...I'm sure that would have gone over reeeeal well | 04:19 |
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| Tenkawa | omg diablo is fast | 04:20 |
| johnx | heh...just saw you on #poky :) | 04:20 |
| johnx | trying new OSes today? | 04:20 |
| Tenkawa | on th n800 anyway | 04:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Makes me wonder how broken people's Chinook installs were. | 04:21 |
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| Tenkawa | johnx: yeah I like trying out new stuff | 04:21 |
| penguino | this is for n800? | 04:21 |
| penguino | how do i reset to factory default settings? | 04:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Flash it. . . . | 04:21 |
| Tenkawa | poky was interesting although still quite slow | 04:21 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Or there's a reset option in Control panel, I believe. | 04:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | But that isn't a guarantee. | 04:22 |
| ds3 | a 2 mushroom clouds, I don't think that would have mattered! | 04:22 |
| Tenkawa | but going from nokia's last os2008-2007 release to diablo all I can say is wow | 04:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | ds3, I'd be more worried about the reaction this side of the ocean. | 04:22 |
| Tenkawa | hopefully it might be a little more battery friendly but if not.. oh well | 04:22 |
| Tenkawa | small loss | 04:22 |
| penguino | one site says i have to reflash | 04:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | penguino, just reflash | 04:22 |
| penguino | and im afraid of bricking it, surely there is an easy method | 04:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | it'll take you 10 minutes. | 04:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | You wont brick it | 04:23 |
| penguino | 10 mins, can you provide a url? | 04:23 |
| Tenkawa | you cant really brick it can you? | 04:23 |
| Tenkawa | soon as you rerun flasher and power it on it replaces it anyway | 04:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Theoretically speaking, yes. | 04:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | If NOLO gets trashed | 04:23 |
| |penguinbait| | anythings possible, especially for over achievers | 04:23 |
| Tenkawa | true | 04:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | but NOLO is all of 9KB large | 04:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://wiki.maemo.org/Flashing_tablet_with_new_image | 04:23 |
| ds3 | sure, just as it is rewriting X-Load, hit power | 04:23 |
| Tenkawa | nolo could hose up | 04:23 |
| penguino | a url for instructions por favor | 04:23 |
| penguino | oh | 04:24 |
| Tenkawa | thats true | 04:24 |
| ds3 | or NOLO | 04:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | The flash goes at around 5MB/sec | 04:24 |
| * Tenkawa still likes his n800 even though he also owns an iphone | 04:24 | |
| GeneralAntilles | x-loader is part of NOLO | 04:24 |
| Tenkawa | the 810 did not impress me | 04:24 |
| ds3 | X-Loader resides in a different area then NOLO (the USB, etc parseing part) | 04:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's, what, a 2ms window for NOLO? | 04:25 |
| Tenkawa | is there a hard hack to the eprom/nvram if something went really bad wrong> | 04:25 |
| Tenkawa | er ? | 04:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | So, uh, you can brick your tablet if you do something like pull the USB cable or kill your computer in those 2ms | 04:25 |
| ds3 | it extends the window a bit more because it is 2 seperate things | 04:25 |
| * Tenkawa likes direct chip programming | 04:25 | |
| ds3 | yanking USB is relatiely safe | 04:25 |
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| penguino | wtf hacker edition for the 770 but not the n800? | 04:26 |
| ds3 | not that I'd try it w/o JTAG though ;) | 04:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Er | 04:26 |
| penguino | so i have to get IT OS? | 04:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | The N800 has an official edition. :\ | 04:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Er | 04:26 |
| Tenkawa | ds3: heheheh gotta love JTAG's | 04:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Tenkawa, you could build yourself a JTAG cable. | 04:26 |
| penguino | i want the h@ck3r 3d!t!0n | 04:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | penguino, do you even know what the Hacker Edition is? | 04:26 |
| penguino | not a clue what it is lol | 04:27 |
| Tenkawa | got one hooked up to one of my geode machine's just in case | 04:27 |
| ds3 | FWIW, I work daily with the OMAPs and have yet to screw up X-Loader or NoLo (or equiv) | 04:27 |
| Tenkawa | that puppy is touchy | 04:27 |
| penguino | i just want the shit reflashed , not sure which one to download | 04:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | What OS are you on, penguino? | 04:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Computer OS . . . | 04:27 |
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| penguino | it says on about product: maemo linux os2008 | 04:28 |
| penguino | comp tiny xp | 04:28 |
| penguino | but i could use linux on the other doesnt matter ..quickest | 04:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Read the page I linked you | 04:28 |
| johnx | easiest is definitely the windows update manager if you're on windows already | 04:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://wiki.maemo.org/Upgrading_tablet_OS#Flashing_on_Windows | 04:28 |
| * Tenkawa will let ythe battery charge and fire it up in the morning when he goes to panera | 04:28 | |
| Tenkawa | is there anything I should tweak in the app catalog before I get started | 04:29 |
| penguino | 00194FD59AF6 | 04:29 |
| Tenkawa | I doubt theres much in the diablo repo yet but was curious all the same | 04:29 |
| penguino | RX-34_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin | 04:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Dupe the maemo Extras entry and make the second one for chinook. | 04:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | penguino, look at the link I gave you | 04:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just install the software updater for Windows | 04:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | It does everything for you. | 04:30 |
| Tenkawa | oh ok so the chinook repo will work? ok good | 04:30 |
| penguino | oh...shoot awesome im going down all the other steps like wtf | 04:30 |
| Tenkawa | cool | 04:30 |
| Tenkawa | tomorrow morning should be fun | 04:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Tenkawa, the only major change was libssl | 04:31 |
| ds3 | do all original OS2008 apps work in Diablo? | 04:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | *library change | 04:31 |
| Tenkawa | GeneralAntilles: then wher the hell did this speed come from | 04:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | "orginal"? | 04:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Tenkawa, my guess is that your Chinook install was messed up. | 04:31 |
| Tenkawa | because I know my old image even new wasnt that fast | 04:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | There have been some speed improvements. | 04:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Put nothing incredible. | 04:31 |
| Tenkawa | was there any updates to Opera? | 04:32 |
| ds3 | Opera?! | 04:32 |
| Tenkawa | errm | 04:32 |
| Tenkawa | browser (whatever it is) | 04:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Opera's been dead for a while. :\ | 04:32 |
| Tenkawa | sorry.. had opera on the brain | 04:32 |
| henrique | microb | 04:32 |
| henrique | heh | 04:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroB | 04:32 |
| Tenkawa | from another project I am working on | 04:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Some updates, yes. | 04:32 |
| ds3 | wish they license netfront instead | 04:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | :shudder: | 04:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'll pass, thanks. | 04:32 |
| Tenkawa | nice | 04:33 |
| penguino | windows is fail | 04:33 |
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| ds3 | netfront does a better job of rerender pages for mobile devices | 04:33 |
| penguino | good for gaming though | 04:33 |
| * Tenkawa needs to set up a maemo build environment on his server | 04:33 | |
| ds3 | and netfront is faster | 04:33 |
| Tenkawa | is the diablo sdk out yet? | 04:33 |
| * Tenkawa notes he could just go read maemo.org | 04:33 | |
| Tenkawa | :) | 04:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd rather have a desktop-quality browser. | 04:33 |
| ds3 | GA: I take it you are usually on a fast connection (wifi)? | 04:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or 3g | 04:34 |
| penguino | the n800 is impressive i show it off to everyone | 04:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | You can disable images in MicroB. | 04:34 |
| ds3 | some of us are stuck behind EDGE | 04:34 |
| ds3 | disabling images speed it up but with Netfront, I can have both images and speed | 04:35 |
| penguino | i was going to get the 810 but the price is insanely high | 04:35 |
| ds3 | there are some rare times where I want the full page but most of the time I just want something quick like what I can get on the treo before I turned on DUN ;) | 04:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Meh, use links or something. | 04:36 |
| ds3 | if there was a nice port of w3m for Maemo.... | 04:37 |
| ds3 | w3m gets an incredible amount of use on the desktop | 04:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bitch at qwerty12 | 04:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm sure you can talk him into doing some kind of port. | 04:38 |
| Tenkawa | I got my n800 for $170 when compusa was going out of business because they classified it in the cell phone section | 04:38 |
| johnx | isn't there a nice proxy you can run on your server or desktop to recompress images and stuff like that? | 04:38 |
| Tenkawa | heh | 04:38 |
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| * GeneralAntilles paid $399 | 04:38 | |
| johnx | Tenkawa, I got mine in march '07 for $270 I think | 04:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | January 7th, 2007 woo | 04:39 |
| johnx | ...from a compusa going out of business :D | 04:39 |
| Tenkawa | yea I saw it and said... its mine!!! | 04:39 |
| crashanddie | johnx, ssh tunnel with compression ? | 04:39 |
| Tenkawa | they had it for 40% off | 04:39 |
| ds3 | johnx: they have compusas where you are? | 04:39 |
| johnx | ds3, I was living in the US then | 04:39 |
| johnx | it was right before I moved here | 04:39 |
| johnx | crashanddie, I was thinking of just lossy image compression | 04:40 |
| ds3 | are there any deals at akaibara? | 04:40 |
| johnx | ds3, lots :) | 04:40 |
| Tenkawa | ok.. time for sleep I think.. tomorrow should be fun. | 04:40 |
| johnx | just not on nokia stuff :P | 04:40 |
| Tenkawa | later all | 04:40 |
| johnx | 'night Tenkawa | 04:40 |
| ds3 | oh :( | 04:40 |
| Tenkawa | cheers | 04:40 |
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| johnx | ds3, Nokia's not that big here. Most people buy phones with carrier subsidies | 04:41 |
| johnx | and the N8x0 tablets don't have Japanese input support | 04:42 |
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| ds3 | Maemo on the Z! | 04:43 |
| johnx | ds3, that's the plan :D | 04:43 |
| johnx | just running into some problems :/ | 04:43 |
| ds3 | are you using the binaries? | 04:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Lower resolution screen? :P | 04:44 |
| ds3 | by just a little bit 640x480 vs 800x480 | 04:44 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, build problems in OE, sapwood problems in debian | 04:44 |
| ds3 | OTH, you get a CF slot | 04:45 |
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| johnx | GeneralAntilles, the resolution shouldn't be a big issue. when apps aren't maximized on the n8x0 they only get like 720x440 | 04:46 |
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| ds3 | bigger lost might be having to use a 600MHz OC Xscale instead of a 400MHz OMAP | 04:48 |
| johnx | oc'ing embedded devices skeers me a little | 04:54 |
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| tank-man | cause its in your pocket? | 05:10 |
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| megosdog | Hi all. What are some good video encoding settings for playing video on the N810 to get a good quality picture? I'm considering this: 480x272, 768k bitrate, 25fps, xvid codec and mp3 sound at 128kbps. | 05:13 |
| GAN800 | That works | 05:13 |
| GAN800 | There's a whole article on the issue on the wiki, though. | 05:13 |
| GAN800 | You could probably up the bitrate a bit without issue | 05:14 |
| tank-man | i use 400x240 res | 05:14 |
| GAN800 | and I would definitely keep the framerate to 'source'. | 05:14 |
| johnx | megabyte405, that should work well. the important part is xvid/mp3 | 05:14 |
| GAN800 | Make sure the audio is 44.1 | 05:14 |
| johnx | tank-man, I don't OC mobile stuff anymore because I think OC'ing is what killed off my visor prism | 05:14 |
| GAN800 | mplayer kinda chokes on 48000Hz | 05:15 |
| johnx | megabyte405, sorry, didn't mean to hilight you :/ | 05:15 |
| megabyte405 | np | 05:15 |
| johnx | megosdog, that first one was to you :) | 05:15 |
| megosdog | at 48000? Dude, when I tried mplayer, it choked even on a very low bitrate, smartphone encoded xvid file. | 05:15 |
| megosdog | lol. I kinda figured that. :) | 05:15 |
| tank-man | 400x240 at 2x is the exact size of the n8x0 screen | 05:15 |
| tank-man | thats why i use that size | 05:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | 48000Hz for audio, not video bitrate. | 05:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Generally speaking, I don't bother reencoding most stuff. | 05:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Widescreen stuff into the 600px horizontal range works well enough for me. | 05:18 |
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| johnx | ubuntu threads on itt hurt me >_> | 05:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 05:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Retardation on itT hurts me | 05:26 |
| johnx | but the two ridiculous memes that hurt me the most are: I want openoffice and I want ubuntu | 05:27 |
| megosdog | Hey, silly question. How do I update my N810 with patches and updates? | 05:29 |
| * GeneralAntilles would link the Veruca Salt clip, but YouTube took it down. | 05:29 | |
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| johnx | megosdog, what kind of patch are you trying to apply? | 05:30 |
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| megosdog | Oh, just any updates that might be available. | 05:32 |
| johnx | megosdog, did you already update to diablo? | 05:33 |
| megosdog | Diablo? | 05:33 |
| johnx | the newest OS2008 release | 05:33 |
| megosdog | Nope. Not sure how. What advantages does it have? | 05:33 |
| johnx | better email client, newer library versions, lots of little improvements to software | 05:34 |
| megosdog | Awesome. How do I update to it? | 05:34 |
| johnx | and support for doing post-diablo updates as installable packages | 05:34 |
| johnx | have you ever updated the OS on your tablet before? | 05:35 |
| johnx | also, what OS are you running on your desktop? | 05:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Probably 42-19 | 05:35 |
| megosdog | No, I've never done any updates before, and I'm running XPsp2 | 05:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Er | 05:35 |
| * GeneralAntilles lerns2reed | 05:36 | |
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| johnx | megosdog, great, go here, click "flashing on windows" | 05:36 |
| johnx | http://wiki.maemo.org/Upgrading_tablet_OS | 05:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | That page still needs some love and care. . . . | 05:37 |
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| GeneralAntilles | OK, finally updated the Internet Tablet OS article on wikipedia. . . . | 05:46 |
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| dick-richardson | i'm not finding openssh in maemo extras under diablo | 05:57 |
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| johnx | dick-richardson, go to application manager, modify the repository settings for "maemo Extras" and type chinook diablo in the distribution field | 05:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Better, duplicate the maemo Extras entry | 05:59 |
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| johnx | GeneralAntilles, any particular reason? | 05:59 |
| dick-richardson | perfect, danke\ | 05:59 |
| summatusmentis | that's what I did. When does the diabloe repo get populated? | 06:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Because Diablo Extras is where new stuff will be going moving forward. | 06:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | summatusmentis, it should be partially populated | 06:00 |
| johnx | summatusmentis, when peoples' source packages autobuild or they resubmit them | 06:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^ | 06:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Everything with sources from Chinook Extras is going through the autobuilder | 06:00 |
| megosdog | So after I update, I have to add that package repository too? | 06:00 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Which will then go Diablo Extra-devel when they build successfully. | 06:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | and then the maintainers will have to promote to Diablo Extras. | 06:01 |
| dick-richardson | any real risk running chinook stuff? | 06:01 |
| johnx | not unless you start replacing libraries with lower versions | 06:02 |
| johnx | nothing in extras should be dangerous | 06:02 |
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| dick-richardson | well shit, there goes my night | 06:02 |
| dick-richardson | I really liked the old libs | 06:02 |
| johnx | some stuff seems to want an older libssl which could be problematic | 06:02 |
| dick-richardson | :D | 06:03 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It seemed to pull the old one from Chinook Extras for me. :\ | 06:03 |
| chmac | Anyone know a LC_TIME which will give me 24 hour clock and dd/mm/yyyy date format? | 06:04 |
| chmac | fr_FR gives me the time but the date is dd.mm.yyyy | 06:04 |
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| derf | Sadly, no. | 06:05 |
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| derf | But if you find one, let me know. | 06:05 |
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| dick-richardson | how are you guys gaining root access? | 06:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~easyroot | 06:11 |
| johnx | ~easyroot | 06:11 |
| infobot | easyroot is, like, an easy way to get root access on OS2008 and can be found at http://nitapps.com | 06:11 |
| johnx | heh | 06:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Local win! :P | 06:12 |
| dick-richardson | I'd been using openssh, which works well | 06:12 |
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| johnx | GeneralAntilles, same here :P did infobot message you as well? | 06:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | PM? no | 06:12 |
| penguino | i am stuck on update mode, n800 is on screen with usb connector in right hand corner, windows will not let me update it because in device manager it has a yellow ? with n800(update mode) | 06:13 |
| penguino | i need a driver so i can get past this | 06:13 |
| ds3 | thou shalt not use windows. | 06:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^ | 06:13 |
| penguino | windows is epic fail please help | 06:13 |
| * GeneralAntilles waits for this to update. http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2008-06-26.log.html :D | 06:13 | |
| dick-richardson | especially with 'penguino' as a handle | 06:14 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, I think you won because infobot said "Someone already said that 0 seconds ago" to me | 06:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah | 06:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Woo! :P | 06:14 |
| penguino | you shouldnt be 100% anything | 06:14 |
| penguino | i play games | 06:14 |
| chmac | Anyone using the garnet vm? It's delicious... :) | 06:14 |
| dick-richardson | me too...crossover :D | 06:14 |
| summatusmentis | chmac: I've tried it, don't have much use for palm os | 06:15 |
| summatusmentis | might more once I get my centro, and even then, probably not | 06:15 |
| * GeneralAntilles uses Linux on the tablets and OS X on his computers. | 06:15 | |
| GeneralAntilles | No Windows fail here! | 06:15 |
| timeless | gan? | 06:15 |
| chmac | summatusmentis: I'm coming from a Treo 680, so it's fantatsic | 06:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless? | 06:15 |
| dick-richardson | you drank the kool-aid? :( | 06:15 |
| timeless | do you know the license details for the maemo contest? | 06:15 |
| ds3 | just wish gvm supported serial and VFS | 06:15 |
| timeless | can someone use images in advance, possibly w/ modification? | 06:16 |
| chmac | Primarily, I'm thinking I'll continue to use my Palm OS applications for task management / diary | 06:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't know if they've been hashed out yet. :\ | 06:16 |
| summatusmentis | chmac: fair enough. I prefer Maemo | 06:16 |
| johnx | I'm just happy that quicknote is a decent replacement for the old palm memo | 06:16 |
| chmac | summatusmentis: What do you use as a diary / address book? Does it sync with a syncML server? | 06:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, I don't see anything mentioned on the wiki yet. | 06:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | You might ask here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Maemo.org_logo_contest | 06:17 |
| summatusmentis | chmac: I don't... well, my current razr for addresses(or phone numbers I guess) | 06:18 |
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| chmac | summatusmentis: Yeah, I want to sync between my phone (about to get an E51) and my laptop and my tablet | 06:18 |
| summatusmentis | I want to sync beteween my phone and my laptop, don't care so much about my tablet, you know? | 06:19 |
| chmac | Fair enough. I think the keypad on the E51 is a bit small to use it as my main diary, but we'll see how it goes :) | 06:19 |
| summatusmentis | yeah, I'm hoping the centro thumb board should be ok | 06:20 |
| chmac | summatusmentis: It's like a treo right? The keyboard is pretty darned good for all that stuff. Just the screen's not quite big enough for web / email | 06:21 |
| summatusmentis | yeah, it's like a treo, but smaller | 06:21 |
| summatusmentis | so, as such, the keyboard is tighter | 06:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Lightning hell outside. Woo | 06:25 |
| * megosdog is jealous of your lightning | 06:26 | |
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| chmac | derf: This seems to be an option for 24 hour clock http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowToEditPosixLocaleData/ | 06:41 |
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| chmac | I haven't got the whole thing installed though | 06:41 |
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| chmac | Interesting... I've just changed my LC_TIME to en_AU which gives me 24 hour clock and dd/mm/yyyy date. | 06:52 |
| chmac | However, it's also borked my locale settings, so I'm seeing holding strings like "home_ap_home_view" instead of the home app menu | 06:52 |
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| bmidgle2 | apt-get isn't happy after installing diablo | 06:57 |
| bmidgle2 | apt-get -f install wants to install flash-and-reboot, initfs-flasher, and kernel-diablo-flasher | 06:58 |
| GAN800 | There's a thread that explains it on -developers. | 06:58 |
| GAN800 | Just install them. | 06:58 |
| bmidgle2 | ok | 06:58 |
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| timeless | gan; confused | 07:00 |
| timeless | the license is http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/ | 07:00 |
| timeless | supposing a certain logo wins | 07:01 |
| timeless | does this mean maemo can't make a tshirt with it? | 07:01 |
| timeless | wouldn't that be a derived work? | 07:01 |
| megosdog | Oh! Creative commons! I released a sci-fi novel under creative commons. :) | 07:01 |
| timeless | actually, as is, i can't really do much w/ that thing | 07:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hrm, I wouldn't think so | 07:01 |
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| penguino | ok i'm flashing inside of centos | 07:02 |
| timeless | also, does this mean what it says: | 07:03 |
| timeless | # Submitters wust have a maemo account, and be connected and sign their entries in the wiki. | 07:03 |
| penguino | things seem ok for now | 07:03 |
| penguino | centos or suse? vote | 07:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha, no wonder I couldn't find any mention of "license" <_< | 07:04 |
| timeless | they used the britishism? | 07:04 |
| timeless | gah | 07:04 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I see "Submitters must have a maemo account, and sign their entries in the wiki." | 07:04 |
| timeless | rm -rf /World/languages/en-gb & | 07:04 |
| timeless | http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Maemo.org_logo_contest | 07:04 |
| timeless | says wust here | 07:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah | 07:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's the Talk page | 07:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_logo_contest#Submission_guidelines | 07:05 |
| timeless | am i not allowed to read that page? | 07:05 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Well, the Talk page is just the discussion page | 07:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | and doesn't actually reflect the real guidelines | 07:06 |
| timeless | gah | 07:06 |
| timeless | we need a spellchecker for wikinames | 07:06 |
| timeless | who is GeneralAntillies ? | 07:07 |
| oilinki | Does the rules mean, that the logo should be square | 07:07 |
| oilinki | longest side 500.. but it will be used as 16x16 pixels as well | 07:07 |
| timeless | personally, having spent considerable time w/ ohloh logos | 07:07 |
| timeless | yes logos should be square | 07:07 |
| timeless | if you want to make a banner too, that's fine | 07:07 |
| timeless | and it seems most people are doing that | 07:07 |
| timeless | and yes, i'm looking to replace my branding w/ maemo | 07:08 |
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| timeless | if i want a vector drawing system, what are my chioces/ | 07:09 |
| timeless | gah | 07:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Inkscape? | 07:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Illustrator | 07:10 |
| oilinki | those are for linux? | 07:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Inkscape is | 07:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pixelmator might work, but it needs Leopard. ;) | 07:11 |
| oilinki | ok. thanks | 07:11 |
| oilinki | btw. do you know some easy to use 'autocad' program for linux? | 07:11 |
| oilinki | wife wishes to make house plans :) | 07:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Did Google port SketchUp to Linux? | 07:13 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, no :( | 07:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Too bad | 07:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wine? | 07:13 |
| johnx | it works a little bit with wine | 07:13 |
| * johnx really liked sketchup | 07:13 | |
| oilinki | GeneralAntilles: I tried to install that yesterday, but it did not start up.. and wine is kind of a mystery for me. | 07:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | It fails as a real 3d program, though. | 07:14 |
| oilinki | maybe I should give it a try. | 07:14 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, it's so darn nice for simple stuff though | 07:14 |
| oilinki | again. | 07:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 07:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | I never really put the time into learning it, though. | 07:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | <3 Cinema 4D | 07:15 |
| oilinki | google products are normally great. lot's of work done, so that the apps are easy to use | 07:15 |
| chmac | Anyone know if I can compile on the N810 without having to install a ton of stuff? | 07:16 |
| chmac | Or does anyone know where I could get a posix-locales .deb which has en_GB set to 24 hour time? | 07:17 |
| chmac | http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowToEditPosixLocaleData/ | 07:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=303 | 07:17 |
| * timeless pulls out psp | 07:18 | |
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| dick-richardson | google gears would be perfect for maemo | 07:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody put it together. | 07:19 |
| dick-richardson | know where it is off the top of your head? | 07:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.google.com/search?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&q=google+gears+maemo | 07:19 |
| dick-richardson | yeah, thumbing through that exact search as we speak | 07:20 |
| dick-richardson | nobody has thrown up their .deb? | 07:21 |
| timeless | gan: progress, wow | 07:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Things seem to be looking up. :) | 07:24 |
| dick-richardson | http://gears.googlecode.com/issues/attachment?aid=2526145489773010686&name=maemo-googlegears-webaddon_0.2.9.0-0_armel.deb | 07:25 |
| dick-richardson | ha! | 07:25 |
| chmac | GeneralAntilles: Thanks for that. Do you know what Freemantle is? | 07:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITOS#Fremantle | 07:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://flors.wordpress.com/2008/06/01/maemo-linuxtag-update/ | 07:27 |
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| chmac | GeneralAntilles: I'm surprised nobody on the bug published an updated posix_locales db file | 07:31 |
| chmac | .deb file that is | 07:31 |
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| chmac | Anyone here have a "Fully working scratchbox installation with the correct rootfs." | 07:32 |
| chmac | I'd be super grateful if anyone wants to whip up a .deb for me as per http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowToEditPosixLocaleData/ | 07:32 |
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| timeless | sp3000: et al, swift is now partially rebranded | 07:38 |
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| megosdog | Hey, has anyone heard any word yet on a future replacement for the N810? Just wondering. | 07:39 |
| timeless | you mean like the n810 wimax? | 07:39 |
| timeless | i heard that might ship someday | 07:39 |
| johnx | megosdog, no one's heard anything, but rumors abound :) | 07:39 |
| chmac | timeless: I thought the N810 wimax was out already, but it's an alternate rather than an upgrade isn't it? | 07:40 |
| timeless | it has 1 new module (wimax) | 07:40 |
| timeless | but my point is that no one should be talking about such things | 07:40 |
| timeless | you'll hear about them when they're announced | 07:40 |
| timeless | e.g. diablo's release was in the topic here | 07:40 |
| timeless | and as w/ any predictions people might make, they're almost certainly wrong | 07:41 |
| timeless | i predicted diablo wouldn't ship until the n810 w/ wimax did | 07:41 |
| timeless | and GAN pointed out i was wrong :( | 07:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | megosdog, Nokia doesn't talk about future hardware plans. | 07:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | :P | 07:41 |
| johnx | also, the more precise the rumor, the more you can be sure it's wrong :) | 07:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | megosdog, if you're interested in speculation and wishlists: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11032 | 07:42 |
| * johnx heads for work | 07:42 | |
| GeneralAntilles | It'll probably be OMAP3-based, anyway. | 07:43 |
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| timeless | gan: some of your predictions in realistically are too optimistic | 07:45 |
| timeless | especially the part about working software :) | 07:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | rumor mongering is fun. | 07:47 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I was working under the assumption that the N900 would be step 5 for a while. | 07:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | and a lot of my premise was invalidated when Quim said it wasn't. :\ | 07:49 |
| chmac | GeneralAntilles: Is your clock running 24 hour time? Or was that bug just general knowledge? | 07:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm in the US. ;) | 07:51 |
| chmac | GeneralAntilles: So you're a 12 hour person then? :) | 07:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | #303 is a sort of long running joke. | 07:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes. | 07:52 |
| chmac | lol | 07:52 |
| timeless | heh | 07:52 |
| timeless | gan: is it the longest joke we have? | 07:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Likely | 07:52 |
| chmac | Somebody must have scrathbox installed? I've got 300mb of bandwidth left this month and I'm not keen to blow it all on scratchbox just to recompile one module... | 07:52 |
| chmac | I could wait till July I suppose... :( | 07:52 |
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| timeless | wow | 07:57 |
| timeless | it should be possible for me to add support for a modern linux to my solaris box | 07:57 |
| * timeless really needs to find a way to update this box | 07:58 | |
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| oilinki | chmac: 300mb left? relying purely on 3g-data? | 08:12 |
| RST38h | MOO. | 08:17 |
| * RST38h scrolls back | 08:17 | |
| RST38h | General: Why increasing internal flash storage is not gonna happen? Flash is organized in banks, unused banks are powered down. What battery penalty? | 08:19 |
| RST38h | Ambidextrous button layout is not gonna happen though, and neither will bumping the number of colors. | 08:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol, that was, like, 7 months ago | 08:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't know. | 08:21 |
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| RST38h | Ah... | 08:22 |
| * RST38h did not check the post date, sorry | 08:22 | |
| timeless | how does one upload to the wiki? | 08:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Special:Upload | 08:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's a link in the sidebar | 08:22 |
| timeless | gan: #jaffa? | 08:24 |
| timeless | http://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Maemo-gradient-box.png | 08:24 |
| timeless | eep | 08:25 |
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| chmac | oilinki: Yeah, we've got VirginBroadband, so it's 3g over wifi :) | 08:43 |
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| megosdog | Ok, I've got a weird one. I just updated my system to Diablo, and whenever it boots up, it connects to wireless, and then becomes unresponsive. Any ideas? | 08:46 |
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| megosdog | Ok, well, I'll deal with this in the morning. | 08:51 |
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| qwerty12 | Nice trick Nokia, putting an blank index.html in the diablo system updates directory. But that still doesn't stop me from downloading Packages.gz which has a nice list of the file names inside ;) | 08:55 |
| timeless | eh? | 08:56 |
| timeless | i download the whole repo already :) | 08:56 |
| timeless | and indexed the sources | 08:56 |
| qwerty12 | I'm really upset, I lost my initial archive of the repo, I don't find it worthwhile to download the current repo imho. | 08:56 |
| * timeless nods | 08:56 | |
| timeless | mxr.maemo.org/chinook | 08:57 |
| timeless | it's worth it because i'll have mxr.maemo.org/diablo as soon as i can get an rsync outbound | 08:57 |
| L0cutus | re | 08:57 |
| L0cutus | my microb doesn't work animore | 08:58 |
| timeless | ? | 08:58 |
| qwerty12 | I need the nokia version of kernel-diablo-flasher. There are major differences in the kernel-diablo-flasher and the http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/k/kernel-diablo/ that nokia put out. | 08:58 |
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| L0cutus | it open, but stay with blank page and popup "updating..." | 08:58 |
| L0cutus | but still nothing happens | 08:59 |
| qwerty12 | sudo gainroot; /etc/init.d;tablet-browser-daemon start | 08:59 |
| qwerty12 | */etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon start | 08:59 |
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| zap | is there a kernel building howto for maemo 4.0.1/4.1 ? | 09:00 |
| zap | I don't understand why /usr/src/linux-kernel-diablo.tar.gz is there and why it is needed | 09:00 |
| L0cutus | qwerty12: now it does work | 09:01 |
| L0cutus | but... what's happened ?!? | 09:01 |
| timeless | l0cutus/qwery12: are you guys collecting/sending cores? | 09:01 |
| qwerty12 | timeless, I lost my copy of nitro. I plan on using dpkg-repack some time soon though. | 09:02 |
| timeless | out of curiosity, where did you get your copy of nitro? | 09:02 |
| qwerty12 | Before they passworded the repo, nokia put some of their testing tools in there. That's why I'm pissed off at losing my "initial" archive of the repo. | 09:03 |
| qwerty12 | I still got ftd though :) | 09:03 |
| qwerty12 | I remember seeing sp-panic-logs (something like that, it would read OOPS from a raw mtdblock), ftd & nitro. | 09:04 |
| timeless | yep | 09:04 |
| timeless | the goal is to get those shipped to users eventually | 09:04 |
| qwerty12 | Ooh, brilliant :) | 09:04 |
| timeless | i think we'll probably need to talk to lawyers though | 09:04 |
| timeless | one question is how to make sure people are ok w/ us collecting their data | 09:04 |
| timeless | i think the collection text may actually be mine | 09:05 |
| timeless | but i'm not sure if a lawyer would approve :/ | 09:05 |
| qwerty12 | But the end user has a choice if they wish to send their data though :/ | 09:05 |
| timeless | the other question is can we open source it :) | 09:05 |
| timeless | sure, but there's this thing called informed consent | 09:05 |
| timeless | if you don't understand a contract you make then it isn't really anything | 09:05 |
| qwerty12 | Ah, ok. I hope it gets released because imho, more dumps can help to improve things :) | 09:06 |
| qwerty12 | And it's not like the users can't see what's in the dumps, I just ran lzop on the dumps and saw a nice block of information. | 09:07 |
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| qwerty12 | Any idea why kernel-diablo_2.6.21-200823maemo6_all.deb has the version number of 200823 but there is a zImage-diablo-200824 in there. (I've checked, the real zImage-diablo-200823 was compiled at 11/06/2008 but this 24 that is inside the kernel-diablo_2.6.21-200823maemo6_all.deb was compiled on 19/06/2008. | 09:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Because Nokia loves messing with your head. :P | 09:13 |
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| qwerty12 | It's quite stupid actually :/. The new 24 kernel gets put in /boot and the flash-and-reboot won't see it unless you make a manual symlink. | 09:14 |
| qwerty12 | Ah well, off with Nokia's games, I'm packing a real diablo kernel with rotation in it, using the proper package, not this kernel-diablo crap they put out. | 09:15 |
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| * qwerty12 sighs. What is the point of posting flash games in the Games forum @ Itt :( | 09:16 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | Better question, what's the point of itT?:P | 09:18 |
| qwerty12 | Heh | 09:18 |
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| qwerty12 | I don't understand these people though, they are complaining about missing packages. When I was trying out the betas, it was the first thing I noticed. I just created a duplicate repository listing straight with the word chinook as the distro. I'm suprised that a lot of the people need telling that :/ | 09:21 |
| pupnik | is Quim around? | 09:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | pupnik, no. | 09:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12, I think you're too far distanced from the average user. ;) | 09:22 |
| qwerty12 | I just consider it more of a common sense thing :) | 09:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes, well. . . . | 09:24 |
| pupnik | cheers qwerty12, GeneralAntilles | 09:25 |
| qwerty12 | Hi pupnik | 09:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | You back in business, pupnik? | 09:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hey, dneary. | 09:27 |
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| qwerty12 | Just out of question, isn't the tablet saying "Disconnect charger to save energy" after you take out the charger a bug? In chinook, that message would pop up at random intervals, not as soon as the charger was removed. | 09:38 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It's existence should be a bug. :P | 09:39 |
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| qwerty12 | Heh, true, it was annoying in chinook :P :) | 09:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | I bought three extra chargers and leave them all plugged in all the time just to spite Nokia. | 09:39 |
| rm_you | rofl | 09:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | A bit like: http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sponsor | 09:40 |
| qwerty12 | My biggest biggest annoyance is the lack of a timer for when the tablet is about to die from no battery left. | 09:40 |
| qwerty12 | LOL | 09:40 |
| qwerty12 | I <3 the iPhone page on Maddox's site. That one always has me rofling | 09:41 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Maddox is the best | 09:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=uscc_part1 | 09:44 |
| qwerty12 | Num 4 always gets me. | 09:44 |
| qwerty12 | I still don't get why they are both staring down... | 09:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ehehe | 09:45 |
| qwerty12 | http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=ticket_to_hell | 09:46 |
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| qwerty12 | Ooh, I've just finished the rotation support for diablo | 09:50 |
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| dneary | hi GeneralAntilles | 09:59 |
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| mk8 | Hi to all .... I just update my N810 to Diablo and have a problem with WLan. If I ask to connect with a WiFi network the list is not updated. I need to power down N810 and start again to see the list updated | 10:00 |
| mk8 | Anyone have the same problem? | 10:00 |
| * timeless pokes dneary | 10:00 | |
| timeless | i think you promised a deliverable :) | 10:00 |
| dneary | timeless: Indeed | 10:00 |
| dneary | Been a bit busy since :) | 10:00 |
| macoute_ | mk8: not on my n810 | 10:01 |
| timeless | mk8: that happens when connectivity (icd) dies | 10:01 |
| timeless | it gets disconnected from things and life sucks :) | 10:01 |
| timeless | i haven't hit it recently, but i have hit it :) | 10:01 |
| macoute_ | does just restarting icd help then? | 10:02 |
| timeless | from memory, no :) | 10:02 |
| timeless | because the daemon and the client don't have a channel to share | 10:02 |
| timeless | (client=ui) | 10:03 |
| macoute_ | might have been here already http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS9978560959.html | 10:03 |
| mk8 | timeless: so the problem can be relate with the fact that internet connection was up to an access point wen I move myself to another place, and I not able to see the new WiFi access point list? | 10:03 |
| timeless | if you have the problem i had | 10:04 |
| qwerty12 | Bye. | 10:04 |
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| timeless | then basically the ui loses the connection to the daemon | 10:04 |
| timeless | and it doesn't matter how connected you were | 10:04 |
| timeless | the ui won't be able to understand or usefully change anything | 10:04 |
| Veggen | Hmm. Weird gps-problem yesterday, btw. | 10:06 |
| mk8 | ok timeless, have you a solution? I never see this problem on Chinook | 10:06 |
| Veggen | I was researching if OSMing (which is a project to make open maps, often done by gathering data with GPSes) was more viable with improved GPS-handling on n810.... | 10:07 |
| dneary | timeless: Away | 10:07 |
| dneary | timeless: I mean: bombs away | 10:08 |
| Veggen | And I was thinking: Well, if I use "gpscamera" (a small app that takes photos with webcam and attaches the gps coordinates in EXIF-data) was a good way to document along the way. | 10:08 |
| Veggen | But, when I started gpscamera and it started to use the gps, it interfered with the gps-usage of maemo mapper. Beause maemo mapper reported fewer satelittes seen. | 10:09 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:09 |
| GAN800 | Hey, Jaffa. | 10:11 |
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| RST38h | dneary: where do I file a bug about email fetch program crashing on regular basis? | 10:14 |
| dneary | RST38h: That would be bugs.maemo.org | 10:14 |
| RST38h | Is it "webmail notifier" or "email client"? | 10:14 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: probably email client, - the webmail notifier is a status bar plugin which alerts you when you have new email in your gmail inbox | 10:16 |
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| GAN800 | "Modest", I'd say. ;) | 10:17 |
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| pupnik | fucking flash advertisements heating up my cpu | 10:21 |
| RST38h | Done, added as bug 3311 | 10:24 |
| RST38h | I will try to clarify conditions under which it occurs when I get home today | 10:24 |
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| lite | pupnik, use adblock+ | 10:26 |
| pupnik | oki | 10:27 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: Could you submit your game ports to a repository? =) | 10:29 |
| pupnik | not for a while RST38h | 10:30 |
| RST38h | It is a real chore to find them one-by-one in the itt forums after upgrade | 10:30 |
| pupnik | and i do have a repo | 10:30 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Where? 8) | 10:30 |
| pupnik | just for os2006 :) | 10:30 |
| RST38h | Maybe you can create an os2008 branch in THAT repo? | 10:30 |
| pupnik | no, there might be a couple of games/emus that can be made extras-worthy | 10:31 |
| pupnik | but 90% of them, no | 10:31 |
| RST38h | All of your packages are extras-worthy | 10:31 |
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| hrw | morning | 10:31 |
| Jaffa | pupnik: but the others in extras-devel then | 10:32 |
| pupnik | i may be too hesitant to commit them, yes | 10:32 |
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| RST38h | BUT if you do not feel like committing them to extras, at least commit them to your own repo - it is better than nothing | 10:32 |
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| RST38h | hello, hrw | 10:32 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: hey, if they end up being unworthy in some sense, X-Fade can always delete them for you, so there is nothing to be hesitant about | 10:33 |
| X-Fade | Hi, can you guys tell me which libraries are found to be missing when trying chinook applications on diablo? | 10:38 |
| X-Fade | Does anybody have seen that happen and which ones were missing? | 10:38 |
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| X-Fade | I seem to recall that there was a problem with libglade? | 10:39 |
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| RST38h | there was a problem with libssl for some people | 10:40 |
| RST38h | worked fine for me | 10:40 |
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| X-Fade | RST38h: yeah if they depend on 0.9.7.. | 10:41 |
| X-Fade | strict deps. | 10:41 |
| RST38h | pupnik: can I make one more little request? =) | 10:42 |
| pupnik | of course | 10:42 |
| RST38h | pupnik: http://www.braingames.getput.com/nether/ ! | 10:42 |
| RST38h | pupnik: port? =) | 10:43 |
| pupnik | cool | 10:43 |
| hrw | I got openssl 0.9.7 installed on my n810/diablo have openssh and omweather from chinook/extras | 10:43 |
| pupnik | no time | 10:43 |
| * RST38h will post to itt in case anybody is interested | 10:44 | |
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| GAN800 | Lot of them have strict deps on libssl 0.97 | 10:45 |
| GAN800 | Just pulled it in from Chinook Extras for me. | 10:45 |
| X-Fade | Ok, I'll just request 0.9.7 here: https://wiki.maemo.org/Diablo:_Missing_Packages | 10:45 |
| GAN800 | Wish there had been a little more heads up before launch to get Diablo Extras up to speed. | 10:46 |
| X-Fade | GAN800: I wish that too ;) | 10:47 |
| X-Fade | GAN800: But the problem was also that there was so little feedback from the community. | 10:47 |
| Jaffa | Agreed. Given there was no corresponding h/w launch, would it have really killed Nokia to say: "we're going to launch diablo next Wednesday, here's the SDK" | 10:47 |
| GAN800 | Yeah, I've noticed. :/ | 10:47 |
| macoute_ | someone from nokia is examining my website with his/her tablet :) | 10:47 |
| X-Fade | And then on diablo release we just said, nobody really objected. Let's go for it. Now or never.. | 10:48 |
| GAN800 | Mr. Bartosh seemed particularly bothered by that on the list. | 10:48 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: that's true too, but the point has been made on maemo-... that without a hard deadline, it's easier to procrastinate | 10:48 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Any news on 4.1 bootstrap availability for SB2? | 10:48 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Yeah, that is a problem. I know.. | 10:48 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: But do you know how many people tested our autobuilder from the community? | 10:48 |
| X-Fade | Exactly one.. | 10:48 |
| X-Fade | And that is a bad sign... | 10:49 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: :-/ | 10:49 |
| GAN800 | yeesh, who? | 10:49 |
| X-Fade | Btw Graham Cobb, thanks! | 10:49 |
| Jaffa | gcobb, I guess. | 10:49 |
| Jaffa | ah :) | 10:49 |
| Jaffa | He submitted some MUD patches to help it build more auto-builder compliant packages | 10:49 |
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| * hrw wants mc and vim... | 10:49 | |
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| X-Fade | People like that are really valuable.. | 10:49 |
| X-Fade | Do-ers.. | 10:50 |
| Jaffa | hrw: vim bundle is in MUD, I'll see if it's still buildable or has bit-rotted. | 10:50 |
| hrw | MUD? | 10:50 |
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| * Jaffa wonders if the problems of the last 3 years have meant that the community's lost too many people and something /really/ big is needed to re-invigorate them - or bring new members in | 10:51 | |
| Jaffa | hrw: http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/ | 10:51 |
| GAN800 | Jaffa, I've wondered that too. . . . :/ | 10:51 |
| Jaffa | GAN800: it's not a pleasant thought | 10:52 |
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| * hrw wants a way to sync maemo <> cellphone | 10:55 | |
| hrw | working one | 10:56 |
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| macoute_ | hrw: if you have a shitty phone, phonelink? :) | 10:56 |
| hrw | entering 208 contacts by hand suxx | 10:56 |
| hrw | macoute_: I have sony ericsson - gnokii does not support it | 10:57 |
| macoute_ | hrw: and i was actually thinking about obextools | 10:57 |
| hrw | gammu does but who use it on maemo... | 10:57 |
| macoute_ | gnokii doesnt support almost any reasonable phone | 10:57 |
| Jaffa | Anyone seen any docs on whether upgrading a chinook SDK to diablo is possible? Or is it a "download a mammoth rootstrap" thing again? | 10:57 |
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| hrw | Jaffa: tried to change sources.list to diablo and then 'apt-get update/dist-upgrade'? | 10:58 |
| hrw | hmm.. python-gammu + python-hildon maybe? | 10:59 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: it is | 11:00 |
| Jaffa | hrw: not yet, I've not seen anyone document they'd tried it - or a comment it was supported | 11:00 |
| hrw | I assume that there is a way to get contacts informations from maemo contacts in python - am I right? | 11:00 |
| luogni | Jaffa: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/4.1/INSTALL.txt | 11:02 |
| luogni | Jaffa: 2.3 Upgrading from Chinook to Diablo SDK | 11:03 |
| Jaffa | luogni : ah, ta | 11:03 |
| luogni | np :) | 11:03 |
| Jaffa | Is it possible to rename sb1 targets? | 11:03 |
| cy3o3 | Sup guys | 11:04 |
| cy3o3 | Just flashed to the newest firmware, wewt! | 11:04 |
| cy3o3 | Wondering if there's a way to install Canola2 without network connectivity on the N810 tho. Where I'm at is all wired at the moment :( | 11:04 |
| macoute_ | hrw: so did you try gammu? | 11:07 |
| macoute_ | i could go with it | 11:07 |
| L0cutus | why every reboot the daemon: /etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon doesn't start ? (so microb doesn't' work) | 11:08 |
| macoute_ | cy3o3: you need to get the packages and then copy them somehow to your tablet | 11:08 |
| macoute_ | then you can install it offline | 11:08 |
| macoute_ | but you need the packages from the internet somehow (bluetooth?) | 11:08 |
| kuriiri_ | memorcard | 11:08 |
| hrw | macoute_: I tried gammu many times and it basically works | 11:09 |
| cy3o3 | Well I have a USB cable | 11:09 |
| cy3o3 | Just don't know where to get the packages I guess | 11:09 |
| macoute_ | hrw: you just compiled it or is there a package available? | 11:10 |
| hrw | macoute_: with my se k750i it just works - I am doing backup of phone now | 11:10 |
| hrw | macoute_: I do not know does packages exists for maemo | 11:11 |
| hrw | I am using it on my desktop | 11:11 |
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| macoute_ | hrw: yeah, there are some reports that users have gotten it working with my phone too | 11:11 |
| macoute_ | last phone wasnt supported fully | 11:11 |
| macoute_ | hrw: so you havent test it on maemo yet? | 11:11 |
| macoute_ | i was thinking about that :P | 11:12 |
| macoute_ | its a nice trick to show the phone-taken-pictures from IT :) | 11:12 |
| hrw | macoute_: my home machine is working on building gammu 1.20 for maemo now | 11:12 |
| macoute_ | hrw: oki, could you pass it to me then? | 11:12 |
| macoute_ | i should really install SDK too :/ | 11:12 |
| hrw | macoute_: but package will have no warranty at all and I will not put it in extras as this is not maemo way of building | 11:13 |
| hrw | macoute_: I do not use maemo sdk - never used | 11:13 |
| macoute_ | hrw: yeah, i understand that completely of course. you can just post the package somewhere on the internets | 11:13 |
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| cy3o3 | Looks like Canola 2 has some problems on Diablo anyways, so I guess I'll just wait ;) | 11:17 |
| GAN800 | How so? | 11:18 |
| GAN800 | Works fine here. . . . | 11:18 |
| macoute_ | there is no scratchbox for amd64 at all? | 11:18 |
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| markwaters | any maemo wiki admins in here ? | 11:19 |
| GAN800 | Hrm? | 11:21 |
| macoute_ | anyone here willing to port scratchbox2 to amd64? | 11:22 |
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| * RST38h wonders what makes amd64 so different that it requires a separate sb2 port | 11:26 | |
| solmumaha | macoute_: scratchbox works fine on amd64, you just need to edit the install script a bit and install from .tar.gz packages | 11:28 |
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| macoute_ | RST38h: ask that from adobe ;) | 11:29 |
| RST38h | actually I know why adobe has separate amd binaries | 11:29 |
| Jaffa | macoute_: Scratchbox or sb2? Certainly the sb2 team are providing x86 but not x86_64 packages. (I know, cos I reraised the issue in their tracker earlier this week) | 11:30 |
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| macoute_ | RST38h: it doesnt? | 11:33 |
| macoute_ | RST38h: afaik x86 and x86_64 are basically as far from each other as ppc and x86 | 11:33 |
| macoute_ | Jaffa: sb2 i was looking for | 11:33 |
| macoute_ | Jaffa: but can i use scratchbox then? | 11:33 |
| AStorm | macoute_: no, they're not | 11:34 |
| AStorm | and on most x86_64 systems you can run 32-bit software | 11:34 |
| macoute_ | AStorm: whoo | 11:34 |
| * zap would like to see maemo SDK not tied to a specific linux distribution | 11:34 | |
| AStorm | zap: it isn't? | 11:35 |
| macoute_ | not on my x86_64 system? | 11:35 |
| zap | AStorm: nope | 11:35 |
| zap | it's highly debian-specific | 11:35 |
| AStorm | macoute_: well, you need 32-bit libc and kernel 32-bit compat | 11:35 |
| Jaffa | And most x86_64 system users don't like installing whole other copies of 32-bit distributions in a chroot to do so. Having a version which uses 32-bit libraries is ok | 11:35 |
| Jaffa | Hmm, is https://maemo.org/profile/edit/ working for everyone else? I'm getting a connection denied, which seems somewhat unlikely | 11:35 |
| macoute_ | AStorm: thats practically the same than claiming that linux is windows as i can run windows apps with wine | 11:37 |
| zap | in any case you will need a more or less full copy of the target system, otherwise you can't generate binaries that will work on it | 11:37 |
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| zap | macoute_: x86_64 supports x86 at kernel level | 11:37 |
| AStorm | macoute_: no | 11:38 |
| macoute_ | zap: it does? | 11:38 |
| AStorm | x86_64 supports most of x86 at CPU level too | 11:38 |
| AStorm | :) | 11:38 |
| hrw | macoute_: x86-64 runs x86 software | 11:38 |
| hrw | macoute_: and please do not compare ppc with x86 - it hurts ppc | 11:38 |
| macoute_ | well how come then we dont have adobes flash on x86_64? | 11:38 |
| hrw | macoute_: because adobe programmers are not 64bit safe | 11:39 |
| AStorm | macoute_: because it has to link against 64-bit Firefox | 11:39 |
| Jaffa | macoute_: you can, and you can embed it in Firefox using npwrapper | 11:39 |
| AStorm | if you run 32-bit Firefox, x86 plugin will work | 11:39 |
| AStorm | or use a hack nspluginwrapper | 11:39 |
| macoute_ | but you said that x86-64 runs x86 software | 11:39 |
| macoute_ | and 11:38 < AStorm> x86_64 supports most of x86 at CPU level too | 11:39 |
| AStorm | to maybe make it work with 64-bit Firefox | 11:39 |
| macoute_ | so how come it is still so hard to make flash run? | 11:40 |
| AStorm | macoute_: it's not | 11:40 |
| hrw | macoute_: because adobe programmers are not 64bit safe | 11:40 |
| macoute_ | if you are saying it is practically te same device? | 11:40 |
| AStorm | yeah, their code is a mess | 11:40 |
| AStorm | macoute_: ... WIKIPEDIA, use it | 11:40 |
| macoute_ | AStorm: i know it runs on amd64, i have it | 11:40 |
| hrw | heh... /ignore macoute_ | 11:40 |
| AStorm | macoute_: yes, it is, only there are a few problems with e.g. long being 64-bit on x86-64 | 11:41 |
| AStorm | so certain assumptions just don't work ;P | 11:41 |
| macoute_ | so that makes amd64 so special | 11:42 |
| macoute_ | :) | 11:42 |
| macoute_ | as the discussion started from 11:26 * RST38h wonders what makes amd64 so different that it requires a separate sb2 port | 11:42 |
| AStorm | macoute_: not just that, but this makes code require a tiny bit of porting sometimes | 11:42 |
| AStorm | also, sb is probably using assembly | 11:43 |
| macoute_ | AStorm: from my experience as a user, not a developer, most of the time | 11:43 |
| macoute_ | (require porting i mean) | 11:43 |
| AStorm | making it work faster with x86-64 will require porting it too | 11:43 |
| AStorm | macoute_: no, very little of the time | 11:43 |
| AStorm | mostly in very low-level stuff, like sb does | 11:43 |
| AStorm | e.g. emulators :> | 11:43 |
| AStorm | virtual machines, such stuff | 11:43 |
| AStorm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64 | 11:43 |
| zap | macoute_: x86_64 kernel implements both x86 syscalls and x86_64 syscalls, so for binaries of both arch the kernel is 100% native | 11:44 |
| AStorm | zap: if you enable 32-bit compatibility support, of course | 11:44 |
| AStorm | I don't know why you wouldn't want that, maybe except embedded | 11:45 |
| zap | sure, but you may ommit x86_64 compatibility support as well :) | 11:45 |
| AStorm | sure, just build a x86 kernel | 11:45 |
| * AStorm thinks we need more RISC access in CPUs | 11:51 | |
| AStorm | or maybe VLIW access | 11:51 |
| AStorm | just means to bypass the schedulers, predictors, etc. | 11:52 |
| hrw | I think that we just need fast cpus which do not take so much power | 11:52 |
| AStorm | that too ;P | 11:52 |
| RST38h | macoute: so called i64 will happily run in i32 mode | 11:52 |
| AStorm | Transmeta was on the right track | 11:52 |
| hrw | I have device with TM Crusoe | 11:53 |
| AStorm | but their compat sucked | 11:53 |
| hrw | RST38h: what you mean by 'i64'? | 11:53 |
| AStorm | intel 64 I guess | 11:53 |
| AStorm | it's called x86-64 | 11:53 |
| RST38h | hrw: x86-64 | 11:53 |
| hrw | there are ia64 (itanium) which are not x86 | 11:54 |
| AStorm | yeah, don't add to confusion by using non-standard names | 11:54 |
| RST38h | hrw: sorry, our internal names are a bit different | 11:54 |
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| AStorm | ia64 was good arch, but had quirks | 11:54 |
| hrw | RST38h: please use 'amd64' 'x86-64' 'x64' 'x86_64' if possible | 11:54 |
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| AStorm | could've been done better | 11:54 |
| AStorm | writing good asm for it is deep magic though | 11:55 |
| AStorm | really needs a smart compiler (in head | 11:55 |
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| hrw | asm? | 11:56 |
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| RST38h | hrw: Ithanic is known as ipf internally | 11:56 |
| RST38h | hrw: ia32 with 64bit extensions is ia64 | 11:56 |
| hrw | RST38h: and outside of intel ia64 was itanium | 11:57 |
| RST38h | I know | 11:57 |
| hrw | RST38h: so please keep i64/ia64 for your intel collageus | 11:57 |
| RST38h | But anyway, x86-64 should have no problem running x86 code | 11:57 |
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| hrw | indeed | 11:58 |
| AStorm | intel is relearning their own lesson, lol | 11:58 |
| AStorm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Atom | 11:58 |
| hrw | except that core2 from intel will not run 3dnow instructions | 11:58 |
| RST38h | screw 3dnow | 11:59 |
| AStorm | who needs that when there's SSE2? | 11:59 |
| RST38h | There is SSE4 | 11:59 |
| hrw | and sse4.1 or sse4.2? | 12:00 |
| RST38h | hrw: shshsh | 12:00 |
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| AStorm | ;P | 12:00 |
| RST38h | I will have to stop here. | 12:00 |
| AStorm | SSE4 isn't yet as widely supported | 12:00 |
| AStorm | while all known x86-64 cpus support SSE2 | 12:01 |
| hrw | and tomorrow intel will add SSE5 just to make it non-compatible with older cpus so people will exchange their core2 with new ones. nevermind that nothing will use SSEDN5 instruction | 12:01 |
| hrw | SSE DoNothing5 ;D | 12:02 |
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| RST38h | hrw: All Intel cpus are downward compatible | 12:04 |
| RST38h | Your new SSE5 CPU will happily execute sse2 instructions | 12:04 |
| AStorm | yes, hopefully with good performance | 12:05 |
| RST38h | same or better performance | 12:05 |
| hrw | RST38h: sure, but you know.. marketing | 12:05 |
| RST38h | hrw: Well, they have to sell new stuff somehow | 12:05 |
| RST38h | With people finally getting fed up with Microsoft products, selling them faster CPUs becomes more difficult | 12:06 |
| macoute_ | RST38h: itanium as well? | 12:06 |
| AStorm | RST38h: there are always games... | 12:06 |
| RST38h | Besides, ia32 architecture is pretty much at its limit, it is not becoming significantly faster now | 12:06 |
| AStorm | yup, CISC has problems, running it optimally requires mind reading | 12:07 |
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| RST38h | macoute: Itanium is a niche product, you won't see it on desktop | 12:07 |
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| RST38h | macoute: You *will* see it in huge supercomputers though | 12:07 |
| AStorm | not anymore | 12:07 |
| macoute_ | RST38h: i know, but is it downwards compatible? ;) | 12:08 |
| AStorm | macoute_: no, it's not | 12:08 |
| RST38h | macoute: It is, but slow in ia32 mode | 12:08 |
| AStorm | actually, it's not, it is emulation | 12:08 |
| RST38h | macoute: It makes more sense just to place an extra ia32 core beside it | 12:08 |
| AStorm | not even on the level of microcode | 12:08 |
| RST38h | AStorm: However you call it, Itanic will run ia32 code, just slowly | 12:08 |
| AStorm | yup | 12:09 |
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| AStorm | Crusoe was better in this regard | 12:09 |
| RST38h | It wasn't, really | 12:09 |
| AStorm | it had better emulator ;P | 12:09 |
| RST38h | Transmeta started with ideas of building a universal emulator and ended up designing a buttplug for ia32 socket | 12:09 |
| RST38h | And not a very good one, for that matter | 12:10 |
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| hrw | AStorm: and their emulator eats 16MB of ram | 12:11 |
| AStorm | 32 Mb ;> | 12:11 |
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| AStorm | that is, 4 MB | 12:12 |
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| hrw | AStorm: TM5400 emu takes 16MB | 12:12 |
| AStorm | 16 Mb as in megabit | 12:12 |
| RST38h | that is mostly caches | 12:12 |
| AStorm | yes | 12:12 |
| hrw | AStorm: I have Frontgear Progear webpad with 128MB ram (soldered, not expandable) and 16MB is used for emulation | 12:12 |
| AStorm | anyway, I think Chinese may finally push RISC to people | 12:13 |
| AStorm | obsolete x86 finally | 12:13 |
| RST38h | May I ask why you have bought it in the first place? :) | 12:13 |
| hrw | RST38h: progear? | 12:13 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Not gonna happen any time soon | 12:13 |
| RST38h | hrw: yes | 12:13 |
| hrw | RST38h: I got it for free | 12:13 |
| RST38h | ah | 12:13 |
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| hrw | RST38h: and it was interesting device to play with | 12:13 |
| hrw | RST38h: I plan to unpack it during next half of year and write some linux code for it | 12:14 |
| RST38h | AStorm: In terms of performance ARM chips lag behind top end ia32 | 12:14 |
| AStorm | RST38h: it's not ARM | 12:14 |
| RST38h | AStorm: So they occupy two different niches | 12:14 |
| AStorm | it's MIPS lookalike | 12:14 |
| AStorm | I mean, Loongsun | 12:14 |
| RST38h | Well, if you mean MIPS4300 and its friends, they aren't big players | 12:14 |
| AStorm | no | 12:15 |
| AStorm | still, PS3 ;P | 12:15 |
| hrw | AStorm: ps3 is ppc | 12:15 |
| RST38h | What about PS3? | 12:15 |
| hrw | not mips | 12:15 |
| RST38h | Is PS3 really so cool? | 12:15 |
| AStorm | hrw: hm, my fail | 12:15 |
| AStorm | ;P | 12:15 |
| AStorm | still, its gfx chip was MIPS last I heard | 12:15 |
| AStorm | or was that PS2 | 12:15 |
| AStorm | would have to check | 12:16 |
| AStorm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loongson :> | 12:16 |
| RST38h | I mean, IBM definitely made money by selling Cell to Sony, but it does not look like Cell is good for general purpose work | 12:16 |
| hrw | does "python easy" noted on http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Using_the_Easy_API is available at all? | 12:17 |
| AStorm | it is | 12:17 |
| RST38h | AStorm: the loongson story sounds so suspiciously like Russian Elbrus that I would not worry | 12:17 |
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| AStorm | RST38h: nah, it's actually being sold | 12:17 |
| AStorm | unlike that attempt | 12:18 |
| RST38h | AStorm: So is Elbrus! =) | 12:18 |
| RST38h | All 3000 copies of it | 12:18 |
| AStorm | I mean, it's produced and sold, now ;P | 12:18 |
| RST38h | same with Elbrus | 12:18 |
| AStorm | and people seem to buy these | 12:18 |
| RST38h | Are these people wearing green uniforms with Chinese flags? | 12:19 |
| AStorm | Chinese part is right, the others are not | 12:20 |
| AStorm | :> | 12:20 |
| hrw | ~curse Mario Hozano Lucas de Souza for 'easy' instead of 'python-easy' name | 12:20 |
| infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, Mario Hozano Lucas de Souza for 'easy' instead of 'python-easy' name ! | 12:20 |
| AStorm | infobot++ | 12:20 |
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| hrw | heh.. | 12:27 |
| hrw | maemo and deps in packages... | 12:27 |
| hrw | 'apt-get install easy' works. "from easy import contact" does not | 12:28 |
| hrw | ~curse Mario Hozano Lucas de Souza for 'easy' | 12:28 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, Mario Hozano Lucas de Souza for 'easy' ! | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | http://wiki.maemo.org/Debian_for_NITs_development <- if anyone is interested in how to properly bootstrap a debian distro on tablets | 12:28 |
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| hrw | ARGHHH | 12:30 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, wow! that's great! | 12:30 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: got bored | 12:31 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:31 |
| Stskeeps | and many of the tricks are from the existing body of work in the debian-beta3 stuff | 12:31 |
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| RST38h | All right, and the question of the day isL Can you run Ubuntu Mobile on a NIT? | 12:32 |
| johnx | RST38h, right now? no. | 12:32 |
| RST38h | pity. | 12:32 |
| Stskeeps | the question is really.. 'how difficult is it' :P | 12:32 |
| RST38h | [not that I was going to though] | 12:33 |
| johnx | RST38h, not really a pity I would say | 12:33 |
| johnx | the interface is likely very heavy | 12:33 |
| zedstar | just flashed Diablo.....the default extras repo doesnt seem to load.....i was gonna install openssh....is there a new repo address for extras or gotta fetch deb manually? | 12:33 |
| RST38h | johnx: true...I heard they are using flash | 12:33 |
| RST38h | zadstar: change it from diablo to chinook and it will work | 12:33 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: there's a flash interface too though | 12:34 |
| Jaffa | and/or clutter/opengl and some big apps | 12:34 |
| zedstar | RST38h doh! thanks | 12:34 |
| Stskeeps | (provided we find some braindead way to run flash on a tablet debian :P) | 12:34 |
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| zedstar | another thing...anyone tried the maps license key on diablo....im trying to do a free trial or purchase and is just hanging | 12:34 |
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| * lcuk_work looks round... opengl??? clutter?? they sound exciting ;) | 12:35 | |
| johnx | RST38h, now. there are some apps for ubuntu mobile that might be nice, but those should be easy enough to repackage for debian/armel and not too hard to package for maemo | 12:35 |
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| johnx | RST38h, any app that seems interesting to you? | 12:35 |
| melmoth | anybody involved with diablo-extras-devel builder process here ? | 12:35 |
| RST38h | johnx: wireshark, of course :) | 12:36 |
| johnx | RST38h, let me rephrase that: any apps that aren't available in debian/armel that are available in ubuntu-mobile? :P | 12:36 |
| RST38h | johnx: No idea, as I have never run it | 12:37 |
| Stskeeps | i'm personally curious about UM's interface, but that's it | 12:37 |
| Jaffa | johnx; yeah, all the hioldonised versions of Claws etc. | 12:37 |
| Jaffa | hildonised *and* finger friendly | 12:37 |
| johnx | Jaffa, that would be interesting actually | 12:37 |
| * Jaffa dentists | 12:38 | |
| lcuk_work | jaffa -your mouth is finger friendly? | 12:40 |
| Jaffa | Unless I bite her :) | 12:40 |
| lcuk_work | nokia N810 Jaffa edition, now with extra bite | 12:40 |
| Jaffa | smaller and more juicy, too | 12:40 |
| lcuk_work | your dentisting, repair job or just checkup | 12:41 |
| * lcuk_work works above a dentist | 12:41 | |
| * lcuk_work hears screams occasionally :S | 12:41 | |
| hrw | ;D | 12:42 |
| hrw | lcuk_work: wanna know what bad I found today in maemo world? :D | 12:42 |
| lcuk_work | and they have a cellar. at the very back corner with just a hint of sunlight shining through there is an old style hydrolic dentists chair. its the most spooky place ive ever been in | 12:43 |
| lcuk_work | dunno hrw? | 12:43 |
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| hrw | lcuk_work: usual stuff - totally broken deps | 12:43 |
| lcuk_work | lol and complete lack of any source :S | 12:44 |
| * lcuk_work looks shiftily around | 12:44 | |
| hrw | I wonder why I cannot just 'apt-get something' to run that something | 12:44 |
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| johnx | hrw, because that would be too easy | 12:44 |
| hrw | johnx: no, because this is maemo - world of broken stuff | 12:44 |
| hrw | my n810 works quite nice for voip. but why I have to manually insert ALL numbers from cellphone???? | 12:45 |
| hrw | etc | 12:45 |
| lcuk_work | hrw, my cellphone will connect to my computer with usb and transfer all data to a windows sync program, it should be feasible to do similar using maemo shouldnt it | 12:46 |
| lcuk_work | or simply find a way to sync maemo with outlook ;) | 12:46 |
| lcuk_work | or any pim.. | 12:46 |
| florian | hrw: If I started a sync project at garage - would you join? | 12:46 |
| pekuja | hrw, humm, because that's not what apt-get does. I don't understand, why don't you just 'something' to run that something? | 12:47 |
| hrw | lcuk_work: my phone has option to send whole phonebook via BT. but maemo contacts are unable to import vcards | 12:47 |
| lcuk_work | florian :) a grand idea and one which expands upon your presentation at ltag | 12:47 |
| pekuja | hrw, or do you mean that apt-get would check if you have it installed, and if not, install it first, then run it? | 12:47 |
| lcuk_work | hmmm i thought vcards were available everywhere | 12:47 |
| hrw | pekuja: let me then extend what I said. I wonder why I cannot just 'apt-get something' to get that something installed and ready to run. | 12:48 |
| florian | hrw: use GPE ;) | 12:48 |
| pekuja | hrw, 'apt-get install something' ? | 12:48 |
| florian | scnr | 12:48 |
| hrw | florian: give me gpe contacts with eds backend | 12:48 |
| pekuja | I don't get it, apt-get works fine for me | 12:48 |
| lcuk_work | florian, :D i see what you did there. | 12:48 |
| hrw | pekuja: "apt-get install easy" and then use it in python to get informations from addressbook | 12:48 |
| lcuk_work | actually, florian - have you seen/played with liqbase yet - ive put video and binary up | 12:49 |
| hrw | pekuja: 'easy' package (which should be named 'python-easy') has broken deps. if I install missing packages by hand (with apt-get) then it still does not work due to other problems | 12:49 |
| florian | lcuk_work: I have been thinking about this for quite some time. Still waiting for OpenSync to stabilise... but I have too much of work currently anyway. | 12:49 |
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| hrw | pekuja: and you do not have to tell me how apt/dpkg works - I use debian for more then 8 years | 12:49 |
| pekuja | hrw, well you kept mistyping the command so I thought maybe that's the problem | 12:50 |
| florian | lcuk_work: oh great! no not yet... | 12:50 |
| lcuk_work | hrw, would most of these be solved in v near future by fixing the repos | 12:50 |
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| hrw | lcuk_work: and I will report bugs even | 12:50 |
| pekuja | hrw, and that's not really a general problem, just relevant to that particular package. you made it seem like apt-get doesn't work at all | 12:50 |
| hrw | pekuja: today it is this package. but in past I had others maemo broken stuffs | 12:51 |
| lcuk_work | hrw, you wont like it very much, im being very cathederal about it for now until i sort some stuff out in my head. theres lots of code in there that i dont know what im gonna do with yet and its staying closed until i make a decision | 12:51 |
| lcuk_work | http://liquid.googlepages.com/lcuk | 12:52 |
| lcuk_work | there aren't too many unknown bugs with it - whats there works well from what i can gather | 12:52 |
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| ShadowJK | gnokii might be able to grab the contacts from phone | 12:53 |
| hrw | hmm.. where to report bugs against stuff from extras? | 12:53 |
| hrw | ShadowJK: I do not have nokia phone | 12:53 |
| hrw | ShadowJK: my phone is not supported by gnokii | 12:53 |
| ShadowJK | ah | 12:53 |
| lcuk_work | back later:) | 12:54 |
| ShadowJK | gnokii also talks AT, but if your phone doesn't even have that :/ | 12:54 |
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| ccooke | Is there a website for python-easy? | 12:55 |
| ccooke | some documentation? | 12:55 |
| hrw | ccooke: easy.garage.maemo.org and docs there | 12:55 |
| hrw | ShadowJK: AT interface gives very limited contacts | 12:56 |
| ShadowJK | ya | 12:56 |
| trickie|work | hrw: did you work out what phone you gonna buy next ? (i just read your blog post about it) | 12:57 |
| ccooke | hrw: thanks! (searching for 'easy' and 'python' gets a large number of unhelpful hits :-) | 12:57 |
| hrw | trickie|work: toshiba g900 probably | 12:57 |
| trickie|work | my phone just died... don't know whether to buy a cheapo and hold off for smart phone for a few months | 12:58 |
| hrw | trickie|work: 800x480, wifi, bt, keyboard... nearly like n810 without gps but with windowsmobile | 12:58 |
| hrw | trickie|work: but I also decided that I will wait to August | 12:59 |
| trickie|work | hrw: ok cool, ill have to see if i get a look at one later today | 12:59 |
| trickie|work | hrw: yeah i think im gonna just buy a 30 euro cheapo in the meantime | 12:59 |
| hrw | trickie|work: it costs 900 pln which is less then 300 eur | 12:59 |
| hrw | trickie|work: I have nokia 6230i as backup | 13:00 |
| trickie|work | not a bad price... touchscreen? | 13:00 |
| trickie|work | nah | 13:00 |
| hrw | trickie|work: of course | 13:00 |
| hrw | ok where to report bugs against stuff from extras? | 13:00 |
| hrw | bugs.maemo.org? | 13:00 |
| hrw | trackers on garage? | 13:00 |
| trickie|work | garage for now i think | 13:01 |
| glass_ | g900 less than 300? | 13:01 |
| glass_ | with subsidizisation i assume? | 13:01 |
| hrw | glass_: without | 13:01 |
| trickie|work | they are talking about whether to merge garage trackers into b.m.o | 13:01 |
| glass_ | hrw: unlocked 800x480 wm for under 300? | 13:01 |
| hrw | glass_: yes | 13:01 |
| trickie|work | but for now b.m.o is only nokia supplied components | 13:01 |
| glass_ | hrw: where | 13:01 |
| glass_ | hrw: because that price is cheapo cheap for such a device | 13:01 |
| hrw | glass_: Poland | 13:02 |
| trickie|work | hrw: looks like it is about 400 -475 euro here in .nl | 13:02 |
| trickie|work | unlocked | 13:02 |
| glass_ | 250£ | 13:03 |
| glass_ | pretty cheap | 13:03 |
| glass_ | i wonder if toshiba is dumping them or whats the reason | 13:03 |
| glass_ | or whats their trick to be able to sell so cheap | 13:03 |
| ccooke | Wonder if you can replace the OS ;-) | 13:03 |
| hrw | ccooke: to which? maemo? | 13:04 |
| glass_ | wm's are pretty hackable usually | 13:04 |
| glass_ | bootloader etc wise | 13:04 |
| ccooke | hrw: any linux would do, really | 13:04 |
| hrw | ccooke: why I would have to make usable device unusable? | 13:04 |
| glass_ | the phone side access would probably be a problem | 13:04 |
| ccooke | hrw: Well, that depends what you consider usable. | 13:04 |
| hrw | ccooke: show me really nice PIM for linux which is usable on 800x480 arm... | 13:04 |
| ccooke | for instance, I find windows mobile horrible to use | 13:05 |
| hrw | I do not want much... events with linked contacts, tasks with linked contacts, contacts history (events, tasks, calls) | 13:05 |
| ccooke | hrw: *nod* then you're not in the target market for the nokia tablets, currently | 13:06 |
| ccooke | hrw: but that doesn't make them *unusable* | 13:06 |
| ccooke | I've carried PDAs around with me every day for years, but I've *never* had one as usable as my n810 | 13:06 |
| ccooke | I use it significantly more often than any prior device | 13:07 |
| hrw | ccooke: I agree with both sides. maemo suxx when it comes to pim but n810 is also usable device | 13:07 |
| ccooke | maemo doesn't suck when it comes to PIM. Maemo *doesn't have a PIM*. It's a different thing. | 13:08 |
| hrw | and suxx due to lack of it | 13:08 |
| ccooke | it's like saying "This orange sucks because it doesn't have a radio" | 13:08 |
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| hrw | ccooke: for me nokia tablets are same set of devices as any of my pda devices. | 13:09 |
| johnx | ccooke, right, but it makes the orange suck at being a radio :) | 13:09 |
| johnx | as for me, I do all my "PIM" stuff in quicknote | 13:09 |
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| ccooke | I'm not saying that it wouldn't be a Good Thing if there was a decent PIM for Maemo. But since there isn't one... | 13:10 |
| hrw | ccooke: maemo contain Contacts application which nicely integrate Jabber/SIP/Email.. but totally lack any import capabilities | 13:11 |
| johnx | and is also a somewhat lame contacts app too | 13:12 |
| ccooke | it's not that great, no | 13:12 |
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| johnx | actually, importing things to the tablet is a real weak spot | 13:12 |
| L0cutus | what is the best place to put my ENV vars ? | 13:13 |
| johnx | maybe ~/.profile? | 13:14 |
| L0cutus | i try | 13:16 |
| ccooke | L0cutus: for what purpose? | 13:17 |
| ccooke | do you want them in the shell, or to modify the behaviour of GUI apps? | 13:17 |
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| L0cutus | i must set the VISUAL env var for cron | 13:17 |
| L0cutus | (crontab) | 13:17 |
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| timeless | hello bergie | 13:19 |
| L0cutus | mmm i've found also strange visualization problem ho diablo dialog box "HOME->Select Applets..." | 13:19 |
| L0cutus | on the 2 bottom buttons i haven't OK/CANCEL | 13:20 |
| L0cutus | but 2 string like "homebdselectappletsok" and "homebdselectappletscancel" | 13:20 |
| zs_ | hi is it worth to change 770 to n810? | 13:21 |
| L0cutus | also when starting apps, le popup ("apps xyz starting...") show strange string | 13:21 |
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| johnx | zs_, it depends on what you do with it I guess...but I think the general concensus is "yes" | 13:24 |
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| Jaffa | lcuk_work: check-up | 13:56 |
| Jaffa | All done. All fine. | 13:56 |
| Jaffa | Hmm, upgrading my armel target to diablo causes a "mmap: permission denied" when trying to upgrade base-passwd. x86 upgraded fine. | 14:00 |
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| lcuk_work | jaffa : http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=orange%20smile | 14:03 |
| hrw | Maemo Contacts importer expect VCard 3.0 | 14:03 |
| hrw | but WHY it imports it so BADLY.... | 14:03 |
| hrw | bu | 14:03 |
| Jaffa | lcuk_work: heh | 14:05 |
| hrw | user is supposed to not have any SIP accounts. If he has one or more then importing is broken even with proper vcard | 14:06 |
| inz | Jaffa, echo 4096 > /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr? | 14:06 |
| Jaffa | inz: ta | 14:07 |
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| t_s_o | bah, i have this "now what" feeling again. ok, so i have updated to diablo, i have installed "all" the stuff i had in there before. but now what? | 14:17 |
| X-Fade | t_s_o: Actually use it? :) | 14:18 |
| t_s_o | sure, but to what end? | 14:19 |
| Jaffa | Make the world a happier place? | 14:19 |
| pekuja | use it to feed children in Africa | 14:21 |
| pekuja | I'm sure it's pretty fibrous | 14:21 |
| t_s_o | i would suspect there is a lot of carbon in it... | 14:22 |
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| pekuja | hmm, yeah, probably | 14:28 |
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| trickie|work | precious metals in it would be useful also | 14:30 |
| t_s_o | i dont think there is enough for it to be worth the effort of extracting... | 14:31 |
| trickie|work | maybe if you had nothing, not even food, then you would try | 14:32 |
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| lcuk_work | t_s_o, that "meh, what now" feeling happens with any system. when you got your nokia what did you hope to do with it? | 14:34 |
| t_s_o | to tell the truth, im a gadget geek. so i got it to play around with it :P | 14:34 |
| rm_you | I use mine to control my TV machine :P | 14:35 |
| rm_you | it makes an awesome remote control | 14:35 |
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| rm_you | Atarii: any chance you play DotA? :P | 14:35 |
| lcuk_work | rm_you, :) i hacked a python remote control with mine at first - it replaced the knackered IR remote i used to use | 14:35 |
| rm_you | lcuk_work: lol, i just use VNC on it | 14:36 |
| wazd | I use it to control my nuclear missiles sattelite navigation sistem from the bath :) | 14:36 |
| wazd | system* | 14:36 |
| lcuk_work | wazd :D | 14:36 |
| Atarii | nope rm_you | 14:36 |
| lcuk_work | rm_you, python on the nokia side, visual basic network daemon on the server :) | 14:36 |
| * lcuk_work likes a challenge ;) | 14:37 | |
| wazd | I've started to make some mockups about revamped Application Manager btw :) | 14:37 |
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| crashanddie | had another idea ! | 14:38 |
| crashanddie | Small program, in which you input the what you eat/drink all day long | 14:38 |
| * lcuk_work shakes his fist at crashanddie (and gets out a knife) | 14:38 | |
| lcuk_work | i do that anyway, its called the dinner order | 14:39 |
| lcuk_work | i would forget otherwise | 14:39 |
| lcuk_work | especially if im getting for others in the office | 14:39 |
| crashanddie | then goes to the NHS website, checks what the daily limits are of all the ingredients, and you get a idea of what you've eaten/drunk, and when you're hitting dangerous levels ! (over the daily recommended intake) | 14:39 |
| crashanddie | why the fist and the knife ? | 14:40 |
| lcuk_work | crashanddie, i would want the gps to simply tell me where the nearest macdonalds and hospitals are so i can plan direct route | 14:40 |
| lcuk_work | cos you sidetracked me and i didnt do my time and motion study :) never mind, ill do it tonight | 14:40 |
| crashanddie | like that's my fault ? | 14:41 |
| crashanddie | Sorry for being remotely interesting | 14:41 |
| lcuk_work | yes :P | 14:41 |
| crashanddie | I promise, I'll do something about it | 14:41 |
| lcuk_work | good :P | 14:41 |
| crashanddie | /ignore lcuk*!*@* | 14:41 |
| crashanddie | :D | 14:41 |
| Jaffa | wazd: hopefully taking into account (tigert's?) idea about a tag cloud and making it as nice to use as - say - the iPhone's App Store :-) | 14:41 |
| Jaffa | And, of course, GeneralAntilles' stuff. | 14:41 |
| lcuk_work | adds line to program: if(user==crashanddie) email.subscribe("knitting_for_elders"); | 14:42 |
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| lcuk_work | hey jaffa! they can't have tagclouds, liqbase has them ;) | 14:43 |
| RST38h | lcuk: release! release! release! | 14:43 |
| lcuk_work | you can get a binary :) | 14:43 |
| RST38h | All I need is a binary =) | 14:44 |
| * RST38h isn't fanatic about that open-source thing | 14:44 | |
| * rm_you is | 14:44 | |
| lcuk_work | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21259 :) | 14:44 |
| rm_you | lcuk: source! source! source! | 14:44 |
| lcuk_work | tomato or brown? | 14:45 |
| crashanddie | lcuk.c: In function ‘main’: | 14:45 |
| crashanddie | lcuk.c:12: error: called object ‘email.subscribe’ is not a function | 14:45 |
| crashanddie | :P | 14:45 |
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| lcuk_work | crashanddie, yer it is, its in with all the sql stuff ;) | 14:45 |
| RST38h | rm_you: what are you gonna do with the source though? | 14:45 |
| rm_you | lcuk_work: how does the ebook reader work exactly? | 14:46 |
| crashanddie | rm_you, opens a book, reads it, closes it | 14:46 |
| rm_you | lcuk_work: and would it be possible to make it scroll image files in the same way | 14:46 |
| lcuk_work | RST38h, :) rm_you has a really good idea actually and would like to see if he can get pdf working | 14:46 |
| RST38h | crash: You are forgetting page-turning | 14:46 |
| lcuk_work | rm_you, have you got the binary | 14:46 |
| rm_you | yes | 14:46 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Ah ;) | 14:46 |
| crashanddie | RST38h, that's not necessary, is it ? | 14:46 |
| crashanddie | anyway | 14:46 |
| crashanddie | just got up | 14:47 |
| crashanddie | I need coffee | 14:47 |
| rm_you | is it displaying the text as, well, actual text, or is it rendering it as an image and scrolling that? | 14:47 |
| rm_you | like, how low-level is this thing | 14:47 |
| crashanddie | rm_you, go into options, blit test | 14:47 |
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| rm_you | are you putting stuff straight onto the frame-buffer, or using high level functions to display text? | 14:47 |
| crashanddie | god, my muscles hurt | 14:48 |
| lcuk_work | no, each char in each line represents a glyph which is blitted onto the screen at appropriate location (by calling such esoteric functions as canvas_drawtext(x,y,string) | 14:48 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk_work, damn you, you kept me up way too long, which means I did way more work than I was supposed to :P | 14:48 |
| rm_you | lcuk_work: ok, so it is actually text-ish | 14:48 |
| lcuk_work | yer, ive written routines to load a named ttf font into a custom buffer, and written blit routines to get them from the fontbuffer onto the canvas | 14:49 |
| lcuk_work | rm_you, :) its using the same rendering engine that mplayer and mediaplayer use - XV graphics | 14:50 |
| hrw | https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/?func=browse&group_id=249&atid=993 | 14:50 |
| rm_you | hrm | 14:50 |
| lcuk_work | started with nothing rm, i found a display mode which worked fast enough for my liking and had to build everything around me | 14:51 |
| rm_you | yeah | 14:51 |
| rm_you | just thinking | 14:51 |
| lcuk_work | when you parse a pdf, you obtain a list of fonts and sizes used in the document | 14:52 |
| lcuk_work | you can load up the related glyphs for those fonts (the font class works nicely like that) | 14:52 |
| rm_you | hrm | 14:52 |
| rm_you | wait, how do i do the things liqreader tells me to do on the command line | 14:52 |
| rm_you | i don't have direct access to liqreader? | 14:53 |
| lcuk_work | what, you mean the params it might start to load deep within like fontname and size and stuff? | 14:53 |
| rm_you | yes | 14:53 |
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| lcuk_work | apart from the fact the autoscroll test is enabled all the time with no way todisable (its just a playtest afterall) you can just pass the params to liqbase | 14:55 |
| rm_you | hrm | 14:55 |
| rm_you | path to book included? | 14:55 |
| lcuk_work | try it, though i wrote the reader tab way before all the rest of liqbase, nothing is certain | 14:56 |
| rm_you | lol | 14:57 |
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| lcuk_work | liqreader code itself is very close to being fully replaced, the later code editor (with kinetics) works better and code wise is broken down and more managable | 14:58 |
| rm_you | lcuk_work: yeah, it would also be awesome if you released some of this so I could incorperate just the nice smooth text scrolling stuff in part of another app i kinda wanted to write | 14:58 |
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| rm_you | lcuk_work: lol, nice, just redownloaded and the physics sim works :P it is neat | 15:03 |
| lcuk_work | yer, i removed the restriction on named sketches | 15:03 |
| rm_you | you should rename the zip though if you make a change, so it is obvious :) | 15:03 |
| rm_you | i had to compare sizes | 15:03 |
| lcuk_work | i hate calling it physics, its not - its just lardman called it that and it seems to have stuff | 15:03 |
| lcuk_work | yer, normally i have full yyyymmdd_hhmmss naming on releases but the day is enough for this | 15:04 |
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| rm_you | ack its 5am | 15:06 |
| lcuk_work | rm_you, :) soon i hope. i really like the idea of making a library for this but itsn ot a major priority since i have to break off from what i am doing to sort it for you | 15:06 |
| rm_you | i need to run to the store or i might have to see other people there >_> | 15:06 |
| rm_you | anyone know of a shopping list program? | 15:07 |
| rm_you | there used to be a really good one for the zaurus | 15:07 |
| lcuk_work | yer, ummm doofer bob wrote one | 15:07 |
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| lcuk_work | yer, zaurus shopper - not sure if thats released either | 15:07 |
| lcuk_work | we were talking the other night | 15:07 |
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| lcuk_work | lbt | 15:08 |
| rm_you | yeah | 15:08 |
| rm_you | was just gonna port it really quick (lol) | 15:08 |
| rm_you | so i can go shopping :P | 15:08 |
| lcuk_work | lol | 15:08 |
| rm_you | i dont have a pen | 15:08 |
| rm_you | >_> | 15:08 |
| lcuk_work | extreme coding | 15:09 |
| lcuk_work | use liqbase | 15:09 |
| lcuk_work | thats what i do | 15:09 |
| lcuk_work | make however many pages of sketches and view in graffiti | 15:09 |
| lcuk_work | by the way, hardware zoom in graffiti works as expected | 15:09 |
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| lcuk_work | anyway, back later | 15:10 |
| melmoth | anybody succeeded in upload a full library (binary and header packages) to the extras-devel-cauldron thingy ? | 15:14 |
| lardman | lcuk_work: sorry | 15:14 |
| X-Fade | melmoth: Yes. | 15:14 |
| lardman | lcuk_work: what about jiggling :) | 15:14 |
| X-Fade | melmoth: Did you upload a proper source package? | 15:14 |
| melmoth | X-Fade: did you do something special to haev the -dev push in the extar repo ? | 15:14 |
| melmoth | X-Fade: yep, it compiled fine too | 15:15 |
| melmoth | X-Fade: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/clucene-core_0.9.20-1/ | 15:15 |
| X-Fade | melmoth: Which package, I'll look it up. | 15:15 |
| X-Fade | Ah ;) | 15:15 |
| melmoth | but the devel package are not pushed into the repo , only the binary one | 15:15 |
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| inz | melmoth, clocene-dev is in here: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/diablo/free/c/clucene-core/ | 15:18 |
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| melmoth | Hmm | 15:18 |
| melmoth | so why are some other package telling it s missing ? | 15:18 |
| inz | And also present in the Packages file | 15:18 |
| lcuk_work | lardman|lunch, :) physics has stuck (i said stuff up there) i suppose ill get used to the idea | 15:18 |
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| melmoth | https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/sword_1.5.10-4/armel.root.log.FAILED.txt | 15:19 |
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| X-Fade | melmoth: I just started to process extras. It didn't build the repository yet ;) | 15:19 |
| X-Fade | melmoth: Or at least I did 20 minuts ago. | 15:19 |
| melmoth | X-Fade: oh ok, so it is "normal" that i cannot compile stuff taht need clucene-dev yet ? | 15:20 |
| X-Fade | But the autobuilder builds against SDK and extras-devel. | 15:20 |
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| X-Fade | melmoth: Ah, I think I see the problem. They were processed directly after each other. And it hadn't put the previous package in the repository yet. | 15:22 |
| X-Fade | melmoth: Just submitting sword again should be enough. | 15:23 |
| melmoth | on its way | 15:23 |
| melmoth | i will need sword-dev once it works :-) | 15:24 |
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| robsta | hi | 15:26 |
| robsta | how can i access the files i loaded on my n810 (diablo) via usb? they don't show up in the file manager | 15:27 |
| lcuk_work | usb only shows files on the FAT mmc2 partition | 15:28 |
| lcuk_work | if the files are in /usr/home or whatever it is then they arent visible to windows | 15:28 |
| lcuk_work | (assuming you are using windows, for linux i believe its possible somehow | 15:29 |
| * lcuk_work waves hands around | 15:29 | |
| robsta | lcuk_work: i'm using linux, and loading files onto the n810, but in the device's file manager they don't show up | 15:30 |
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| lcuk_work | are you looking in the correct folder? | 15:30 |
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| robsta | lcuk_work: neither are they discoverable using "find" (in /) | 15:31 |
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| lcuk_work | ok... so where do you think you are copying them to | 15:31 |
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| robsta | lcuk_work: good question, whatever nautilus mounts | 15:32 |
| rm_you | lcuk_work: nm, i am gonna write my own shopping app in python | 15:32 |
| lcuk_work | :D you could use windows to copy the files ;) | 15:32 |
| rm_you | i needed an excuse to practice my python again anyway :P | 15:32 |
| lcuk_work | rm_you, :) good | 15:32 |
| robsta | lcuk_work: usb under windows would hardly mount another dir, would it? | 15:33 |
| lcuk_work | robsta, it mounts /media/mmc2 for me | 15:33 |
| lcuk_work | damn customers, back later | 15:34 |
| robsta | on my dev /media/mmc2 is empty | 15:35 |
| derf | robsta: You have to disconnect it from the computer to use it on the device. | 15:35 |
| derf | Only one of them sees it at a time. | 15:35 |
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| robsta | derf: still nothing after disconnecting | 15:36 |
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| robsta | ooh, here it is, only unmounted previsously | 15:37 |
| robsta | how can i access it now, from canola2? | 15:38 |
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| melmoth | X-Fade: that seems to do the trick, sword builded correctly. | 15:40 |
| melmoth | Is there a delay i have to wait before re scheduling build for stuff depending on sword-dev ? | 15:40 |
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| RST38h | She selected a pic of son David as a five-month-old nipper, lying on his front, but staff insisted his arse be protected by a "strategically-placed star". | 15:41 |
| X-Fade | melmoth: It is best to wait 15 minutes to be sure. I'm still playing with the queue processing interval. | 15:43 |
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| melmoth | Ok. Thanks. | 15:44 |
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| X-Fade | melmoth: And it seems it is still processing sword? | 15:46 |
| X-Fade | melmoth: Do you still need to change your keys? I just saw your mail. (oops) | 15:48 |
| pekuja | bah, my N810 is taking forever to charge fully | 15:48 |
| pupnik | We can't be silent, cause they might be giants. And what are we gonna do unless they are? | 15:49 |
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| melmoth | X-Fade: i would like to change all my keys: i have not been picked as one of the faulty one, but i generated them on ubuntu more than a year ago. | 15:52 |
| melmoth | so chances are they are concerned by the vulnerability | 15:53 |
| X-Fade | melmoth: I will send you an invitation. But beware that your building will not work for some time between key changes. | 15:53 |
| melmoth | Ok. | 15:54 |
| * rm_you whistles in the dark | 15:56 | |
| derf | pupnik: They might be Dr. Spock's back-up band. | 15:56 |
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| crashanddie | robsta, did you find it ? | 16:04 |
| robsta | crashanddie: yes, it shows up after onplugging usb | 16:04 |
| robsta | but tell me this: what is the root of the file chooser? | 16:05 |
| crashanddie | file chooser ? | 16:05 |
| crashanddie | as in when you go into the file manager ? | 16:05 |
| crashanddie | And it shows Movies/Documents/Pictures ? | 16:05 |
| crashanddie | I want pimping visualization graphics when listening to music on the NIT | 16:06 |
| robsta | "File manager", what is it mapped to? | 16:06 |
| crashanddie | robsta, it's in /usr/home/user/MyDocs or something | 16:06 |
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| crashanddie | robsta, though, to be fair, I should probably point out they're hidden files | 16:07 |
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| crashanddie | robsta, so if you want to find 'em, you should ls /home/user/MyDocs/.* | 16:07 |
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| crashanddie | this is on the top of my head though, so there might be a typo in there | 16:08 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: about to upload my first (very noddy, MUD-built) package to the autobuilder | 16:10 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: I'll be watching ;) | 16:11 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Do you think we could use mudbuilder to make packaging easier for developers? | 16:12 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: that's my intention of it now. It's also how gcobb's been using it. | 16:13 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Well, I don't have time for it at the moment. But we might want to turn it into an official maemo.org service. | 16:14 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: I'm going to use it to help build the vala packages from the upstream source, and hopefully also my little vala app. It's already got support for building icons into debian/control automatically 'n' stuff. | 16:14 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: Agreed, might need a bit more usage with the new autobuilder world, which is something it also tried to do. Don't need that now :-) | 16:14 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: Yes, there is some part that isn't needed. But it would be nice to offer a packaging helper.. | 16:16 |
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| rm_you | wow, my python is REALLY rusty | 16:17 |
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| rm_you | i dont remember... much of anything. >_< | 16:17 |
| MangoFusion | print "Hello World" | 16:17 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: agreed 100%. And I need an excuse to avoid my in-laws this weekend :-) | 16:18 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Well, can I encourage you to create a wiki page with a proposal? :) | 16:18 |
| Jaffa | Hmm, interesting. debsign is installed, but no gnupg in the SDK | 16:18 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: will do :) | 16:18 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: And that would be a perfect example for: https://wiki.maemo.org/Diablo:_Missing_Packages | 16:19 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: I tried to put gnupg in extras before, but I ended up in dependency hell. | 16:22 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: it seems odd that we've got debsign but not gnupg. I *think* I remember hearing some rationale back in the Maemo 2 days about why signing debs inside scratchbox was a bad idea, but I can't find it; or reconstruct said argument from base principles ;-) | 16:23 |
| X-Fade | Yeah, but it would be nice to help out khertan with it too ;) | 16:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anybody else slightly baffled by this resolution? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2362 | 16:24 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: very odd! E2L, presumably | 16:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | This, too: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3031 | 16:25 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Isn't FIXED for things that required action after bug report and worksforme if it already worked before bugreport? :) | 16:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes | 16:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, or the bug wasn't reproducible. | 16:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | INVALID might also be the proper resolution | 16:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | But this seems pretty clear that it's a FIXED. | 16:26 |
| X-Fade | Just change it ;) | 16:27 |
| lcuk_work | GeneralAntilles, one person for both, maybe just needs a quick lesson in how to use bugtracker. doesnt seem like a major thing, just a quick mail should rectify it | 16:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe, will do. | 16:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | I just woke up to a phone call from a telemarketer, so I'm not sure I'm seeing things 100% yet. | 16:27 |
| zs_ | i can't do apt-get update on maemo 3.1, i got Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/dists/bora/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz 504 Gateway Time-out [IP: 80.72.40.79 80], what's wrong? | 16:27 |
| lcuk_work | we have users of our system doing stuff like this, and in their minds they think "well thats it, it works for me" and move onto the next thing | 16:28 |
| X-Fade | zs_: Try again in a few minutes perhaps? | 16:28 |
| lcuk_work | (although im talking about curtain packages and assigning job statuses) | 16:28 |
| zs_ | X-Fade, i am trying from yesterday :/ | 16:29 |
| X-Fade | zs_: Ok, that isn't right :) | 16:29 |
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| X-Fade | zs_: I see the same thing, I pinged the admin.. | 16:31 |
| megosdog | Is there a way to do things on the N810 without an internet connection? IE, update the package lists or install apps that only have a .install file with them? I'm in a situation right now where I have no wireless access, but I need to update my tablet. | 16:33 |
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| melmoth | megosdog: i never try it, http://maemo.org/community/wiki/usbnetworking/ | 16:35 |
| X-Fade | zs_: Can you try again? | 16:35 |
| zs_ | X-Fade, now it is working :) | 16:35 |
| X-Fade | zs_: Yeah, it was for me now too. | 16:36 |
| zs_ | thanks no i can do my work :) | 16:36 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: done for cal package | 16:36 |
| zs_ | now* | 16:36 |
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| pekuja | how risky is flashing an N810 without it being fully charged? | 16:41 |
| megosdog | melmoth: Yeah, that was my other thought, but wasn't sure how to do it. Thanks. | 16:41 |
| pekuja | is the problem just mostly that if the battery runs out during the flashing, that'll brick the device? | 16:41 |
| megosdog | Ok, next newbie question. How do you repeat a command in the terminal? | 16:41 |
| pekuja | I mean I've been charging mine for like an hour now and it's still not full | 16:41 |
| pekuja | megosdog, press up | 16:42 |
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| megosdog | pekuja: It takes 2-3 hours to charge the battery properly. | 16:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | pekuja, you can flash with the charger in. | 16:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | You have to power-on with the charger cable instead of the power button, though. | 16:42 |
| pekuja | O__o | 16:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | 30 minutes will get you to around 80% | 16:42 |
| megosdog | pekuja: thanks. | 16:42 |
| pekuja | hm, ok | 16:42 |
| pekuja | GeneralAntilles, I'll try that | 16:43 |
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| megosdog | ok, next question. How do you gain root? I've tried "sudo gainroot" to no avail. It says "Enable RD mode to gain root privaledges" and "su root" says that the user doesn't have su privaledges. | 16:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~easyroot | 16:44 |
| infobot | i heard easyroot is an easy way to get root access on OS2008 and can be found at http://nitapps.com | 16:44 |
| zs_ | megosdog, you can use ssh | 16:45 |
| pekuja | there, it took the whole of two seconds to flash it | 16:45 |
| megosdog | zs_: Not to sound obtuse, but how can you use ssh to gain root? | 16:46 |
| zs_ | ssh localhost -l root | 16:47 |
| melmoth | when you install ssh-server, you have a form asking you to change the root password | 16:47 |
| megosdog | ah, interesting. | 16:47 |
| megosdog | Ah, crap. I've got to install ssh server again. Drat. | 16:49 |
| megosdog | I did the diablo update last night and it blew away all my apps. :( | 16:49 |
| melmoth | i m ont ugrading so soon. | 16:50 |
| megosdog | Well, I think I jumped a bit too soon myself. Ah well. | 16:50 |
| melmoth | not just now that evince was avaialble in chinook :) | 16:50 |
| zap | megosdog: you can download .deb files first and then install them with dpkg -i | 16:50 |
| zap | megosdog: look for the apt-getit script on garage | 16:50 |
| megosdog | Yeah, that's what I'm looking at doing. | 16:50 |
| melmoth | you can also add the chinook repo if i remember correctly | 16:51 |
| zap | it supports both .install files and just package names on command line | 16:51 |
| GAN800 | evince has been available since November. | 16:51 |
| melmoth | should work more or less out of the box | 16:51 |
| melmoth | i did not see evince in extras (not extra-devel) only for a couple of weeks | 16:51 |
| GAN800 | 99% of Chinook stuff works fine in Diablo. | 16:52 |
| zap | so why chinook repos aren't in sources by default :) | 16:52 |
| GAN800 | Evince for OS2008 has been available since last year. | 16:52 |
| GAN800 | zap, do you really not know the answer to a question like that? | 16:53 |
| melmoth | Well, may be, it s just that apt-get did not showed it. | 16:53 |
| melmoth | but i think it as only available in extras-devel, wich would explain why it never appeared on y tablet | 16:53 |
| pekuja | where can I find the original kernel binary for diablo? -__- | 16:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | In the FIASCO image? | 16:54 |
| pekuja | I just flashed a new kernel in without realizing the filesystem driver was compiled as a module | 16:54 |
| L0cutus | someone can/want port fcron to maemo ? ;-) | 16:55 |
| hrw | pekuja: look in /usr/share/osso-images/ | 16:55 |
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| GeneralAntilles | zap, I said 99% compatible, not 100%, and Nokia doesn't even ship Extras ENABLED, why would they ship a completely untested Chinook repository in Diablo? Further, the Extras situation as it stands is temporary, and you don't want clueless users pulling down old stuff in a month when we get back up to speed. :\ | 16:56 |
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| hrw | L0cutus: fcron? you do not have more problems? | 16:56 |
| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: sup | 16:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Howdy | 16:56 |
| hrw | hi pvanhoof | 16:56 |
| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: taking a little break to write a shopping list app in python as a learning exercise :P | 16:57 |
| L0cutus | hrw: which problem ? :) | 16:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 16:57 |
| pekuja | hrw, on the N810? the device isn't booting up | 16:57 |
| rm_you | though i am now too tired to actually go shopping... | 16:57 |
| pvanhoof | hrw, hey | 16:57 |
| hrw | pekuja: "flasher -F fiascoimage -u" then | 16:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | I suppose you can only uselessly pound your head on one problem for so long before having to try something else for a little while? :P | 16:57 |
| * rm_you isn't going shopping till his app is done and he can use it to make a list | 16:57 | |
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| rm_you | yeah | 16:58 |
| rm_you | been chasing the volume crash bug around in circles for three days straight | 16:58 |
| rm_you | i have ZERO new ideas | 16:58 |
| rm_you | it's inexplicable | 16:58 |
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| rm_you | i'm basically stalled on every one of our TODOs | 16:59 |
| pekuja | hrw, ok then :-/ | 17:00 |
| rm_you | *sigh* | 17:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe we can kidnap an engineer when we go trout-walloping. :D | 17:03 |
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| pupnik | !seen alterego | 17:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Since never | 17:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~seen alterego | 17:04 |
| infobot | alterego <n=alterego@cpc3-cmbg11-0-0-cust590.cmbg.cable.ntl.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 119d 21h 46m 44s ago, saying: 'Spakman_ probably best, I've got a heavy rest of the week. So best wait 'til Saturday and I'll get maemo.rubyx.co.uk back up.'. | 17:04 |
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| pupnik | urgh | 17:04 |
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| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: hrm... or maybe multilist (https://garage.maemo.org/projects/multilist/) will work ;P | 17:08 |
| hrw | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3315 | 17:08 |
| hrw | rm_you: what about OH Tasks? | 17:08 |
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| rm_you | hrw: ? | 17:09 |
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| hrw | for shopping list | 17:10 |
| rm_you | ah | 17:11 |
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| rm_you | hrw: don't see that on garage? | 17:12 |
| robsta | any indt folks around? | 17:12 |
| robsta | canola2 installation seems to be broken | 17:12 |
| robsta | "Application package not found" | 17:13 |
| GAN800 | #canola | 17:13 |
| hrw | rm_you: http://maemo.o-hand.com/ for package http://pimlico-project.org/ for screenshot | 17:13 |
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| robsta | oh, thx GAN800 | 17:13 |
| rm_you | ah that could work too probably | 17:13 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: how long after uploading a package to diablo-extras-builder is it reasonable to expect *some* form of output on https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2008q2/thread.html or https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/ ? | 17:13 |
| rm_you | but multilist looks to be very decent especially for shopping lists | 17:13 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: That depends on how many packages there are waiting in the queue. | 17:14 |
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| rm_you | but unfortunately in the process of looking for and then beginning to write my own shopping list software, I forgot what I actually needed to buy >_> | 17:14 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: is there anything which shows the current queue size? | 17:15 |
| hrw | why garage users do not even upload page with screenshots ;( | 17:15 |
| X-Fade | No, but there is only one package left and that is yours. So I guess it will show up shortly.. | 17:16 |
| lardman | hrw: +1, should be more info on the Garage front pages too, what the app is, etc. | 17:16 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: I'm not expecting it to work, TBH - but interested in seeing the output :-) | 17:16 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: You will get a mail with the result.. | 17:16 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: cool | 17:16 |
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| hrw | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3315 - someone got that bug too? | 17:17 |
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| Cptnodegard | does shit that worked with chinook automatically work with diablo or will it be another "apps have to be updated" thing? | 17:22 |
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| Cptnodegard | if email client and update system is the only new shit it seems like a waste of time | 17:23 |
| X-Fade | Cptnodegard: Nobody forces you to update. | 17:24 |
| rm_you | I believe there were a lot of bugfixes across the board | 17:24 |
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| Cptnodegard | so....no real new feature? | 17:24 |
| rm_you | dunno <_< | 17:24 |
| Cptnodegard | that really is the only new things? | 17:24 |
| rm_you | some real release notes would be nice | 17:25 |
| rm_you | well, night | 17:25 |
| * rm_you sleeps | 17:25 | |
| Cptnodegard | lol | 17:25 |
| Cptnodegard | well | 17:25 |
| Cptnodegard | mine ain't broken, so im not going to "fix" it | 17:25 |
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| jott | Cptnodegard: well a main point is, that this is supposed to be the last flash image you really need to flash for the devices.. | 17:26 |
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| jott | (as now a kernel can be flashed via a dpkg postinst ;) | 17:27 |
| Cptnodegard | jott: i get that, but if thats the only new thing i see no reason to update until theres an update that does give something new. pain in the ass to get all apps working again | 17:27 |
| jott | ....sure it's all up to you.. | 17:27 |
| pekuja | I'm trying to upgrade my kernel right now actually | 17:27 |
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| pekuja | the problem is, I can't write to /mnt/initfs, so how do I get my modules on there? | 17:28 |
| hrw | Cptnodegard: the problem is that initfs size got changed and kernel got changed so you cannot use chinook with diablo kernel/initfs | 17:28 |
| pekuja | or do I then need to compile the filesystem module straight into the kernel? | 17:28 |
| trickie|work | pekuja: would be easiest | 17:28 |
| GAN800 | Application manager is much better, browser was updated, Media player, Modest, xterm, virtual input methods are much better. | 17:28 |
| hrw | pekuja: you have 2M for kernel - what for use modules ;D | 17:28 |
| GAN800 | lot of small improvements. | 17:28 |
| pekuja | hrw, yeah. well, that was just how the default config was | 17:29 |
| hrw | lot of bugs still not fixed anyway | 17:29 |
| GAN800 | Well, sure, but that's true with most software. | 17:29 |
| GAN800 | You rarely have 'all bugs are now fixed!' releases. | 17:30 |
| jott | as long as the total number of open bugs decreases its a step in the right direction ;) | 17:30 |
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| pekuja | or am I wrong in thinking that the filesystem on N810 is ext3? | 17:30 |
| pekuja | or ext2 | 17:30 |
| GAN800 | It's jffs2 | 17:30 |
| pekuja | ah | 17:30 |
| pekuja | yeah | 17:30 |
| pekuja | hmm | 17:30 |
| pekuja | then the problem must've been something else | 17:30 |
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| qwerty12 | pekuja, For modules, learn how to modify an initfs jffs2 image, use fanoush's bootmenu and put in the modules in initfs_flasher/initfs/lib/modules/omap-something and flash or just place the modules in /lib/modules/omap-something on the rootfs | 17:32 |
| pekuja | I think I'll just place them on the rootfs | 17:32 |
| trickie|work | most of the time you can just compile them into the kernel | 17:33 |
| trickie|work | i do it for all extra config i need | 17:33 |
| pekuja | hmm | 17:33 |
| mgedmin | waah, someone is DOSing my irclogsearch CGI script | 17:33 |
| pekuja | it still seems like it isn't booting though | 17:33 |
| mgedmin | brute-force grep doesn't scale any more | 17:33 |
| mgedmin | time to optimize | 17:33 |
| Stskeeps | mgedmin: google? | 17:33 |
| X-Fade | mgedmin: Hmm that sucks. | 17:33 |
| pekuja | this is what I'm doing: | 17:34 |
| mgedmin | although seeing loadavg of 100 is kinda fun | 17:34 |
| pekuja | sudo flasher-3.0 -f -k zImage | 17:34 |
| pekuja | it looks like it flashes ok, but then when I boot the device up, it enters an infinite reboot loop | 17:34 |
| pekuja | requiring me to remove the battery | 17:35 |
| pekuja | it gets to the splash screen with the hands | 17:35 |
| qwerty12 | Which kernel are you flashing? | 17:35 |
| pekuja | then back to the big Nokia logo | 17:35 |
| pekuja | linux-omap-2.6 | 17:35 |
| pekuja | latest from git. I guess it could just be broken | 17:35 |
| jott | has actually someone made a toolchain for the initfs? or should the cs uclibc version x.yz work ootb? | 17:36 |
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| megosdog | Oh, great. The openSSH client and server installs on maemo.org are gone. I can't get to the install files. | 17:37 |
| megosdog | Oh, wait. That's interesting. it has been downloading them. lol. NM. | 17:37 |
| pekuja | using n800_defconfig | 17:38 |
| megosdog | Bah, I couldn't get the deb for the OpenSSH client and server installs. Anyone got a direct link? | 17:39 |
| pekuja | on an n810 though, but I understand the n800 config should work fine? | 17:39 |
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| mgedmin | megosdog: use the chinook ones | 17:39 |
| guardian | what is VDSO ? | 17:39 |
| megosdog | Where do I get those at? | 17:39 |
| mgedmin | guardian: virtual dynamic shared object | 17:40 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: When did you set your pgp key? | 17:42 |
| sinak | hello. I 've installed VGBA emulator, but i can't configure A and B buttons | 17:42 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: when I got my original invitation, but a) I had another machine then, and b) I couldn't find the URL to put a newly generated key in. | 17:42 |
| pupnik | sinak for N810? | 17:42 |
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| sinak | N800 | 17:42 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Ok, it didn't get imported yet. Just a sec, I'll help it anong ;) | 17:43 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: where'll it import it *from*? | 17:43 |
| * Jaffa is going to start a wiki page | 17:43 | |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: From one pubring to another ;) | 17:44 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Can you try it again? | 17:44 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: and so where've you got my key from? :-) | 17:45 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Well, the builder didn't have it yet ;) | 17:45 |
| pekuja | does anyone know of any good instructions or anything like that on running linux-omap kernel on N810? | 17:45 |
| megosdog | Hmm, I think I found it. | 17:46 |
| pekuja | I followed the Maemo Kernel Guide instructions, but I'm ending up with an infinitely looping N810 | 17:46 |
| RST38h | sinak: So, which keys do you want to assign A/B buttons to? | 17:46 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: ah, but when I generated it with gpg it uploaded it to the central keyring? | 17:46 |
| pekuja | s/looping/restarting/ | 17:46 |
| infobot | pekuja meant: I followed the Maemo Kernel Guide instructions, but I'm ending up with an infinitely restarting N810 | 17:46 |
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| sinak | RST38h that's a good question.. Let's say the zooms keys | 17:46 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: When you add the key via the garage website, it gets imported into the pubring. | 17:47 |
| RST38h | sinak: Ok. And how are you gonna use zoom keys for fire while using directional pad at the same time? | 17:47 |
| qwerty12 | The zoom keys are cramped anyway. | 17:47 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: that's my point: where on the garage website do I add my *new* key? | 17:47 |
| sinak | so how can you play with this emulators? | 17:47 |
| hrw | ~curse MyDocs/.* | 17:48 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, MyDocs/.* ! | 17:48 |
| RST38h | sinak: form the menu, select "Show Cues" | 17:48 |
| RST38h | s/form/from | 17:48 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: I need to send you an invitation for that. | 17:48 |
| churl | what's the best way to transfer data from the internal sd mem card to the external? | 17:49 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: gah, so there's no way of changing my keys without being re-invited? OK. For the wiki page what's the preferred way of getting invited? | 17:49 |
| churl | Jaffa: I need to send you an invitation for that. | 17:49 |
| churl | <churl> what's the best way to transfer data from the internal sd mem card to the external? | 17:49 |
| churl | <Jaffa> X-Fade: gah, so there's no way of changing my keys without being re-invited? OK. For the wiki page what's the preferred way of getting invited? | 17:49 |
| jott | hrw: i just did a "ln -s ~/MyDocs/.documents ~/Documents" etc | 17:49 |
| RST38h | churl: cp command? =) | 17:49 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Well, we have this page where you can change your ssh key already. And the pgp key is going to be added there. | 17:49 |
| churl | red way of getting invited? | 17:50 |
| churl | <jott> hrw: i just did a "ln -s ~/MyDocs/.documents ~/Documents" etc | 17:50 |
| churl | <RST38h> churl: cp command? =) | 17:50 |
| churl | <X-Fade> Jaffa: Well, we have this page where you can change your ssh key already. And the pgp key is going to be added there. | 17:50 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: indeed, I found that, and expected the PGP key to be there too :) | 17:50 |
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| X-Fade | Me too ;) | 17:50 |
| RST38h | churl: Are you trying to impress us with your mighty cut&paste capabilities? | 17:50 |
| qwerty12 | Lol | 17:51 |
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| churl | ok wasnt sure on how the file system works on here | 17:51 |
| jott | just don't press the scrollwheel while scrolling ;) | 17:51 |
| megosdog | Nope, that wasn't it. Drat. I tried snagging the actual deb file from http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/o/openssh/openssh-common_4.7p1-2.maemo2_armel.deb, but it's not the right one apparently. | 17:51 |
| guardian | mgedmin: thx, just changed my linux box and i'm discovering the scratchbox messages about it :) | 17:52 |
| churl | all the text is coming up blank | 17:52 |
| churl | sorry | 17:52 |
| mgedmin | guardian: you know the fix, right? | 17:52 |
| RST38h | churl: You are in an IRC channel. It is not a file system. CP command won't work here. | 17:52 |
| churl | punishment for booting into windows? | 17:52 |
| mgedmin | guardian: sudo sysctl -w vm.vdso_enabled=0 vm.mmap_min_addr=4096 | 17:52 |
| guardian | mgedmin: the scratchbox install script mentions it | 17:53 |
| guardian | i was just curious about the side effect of the fix on the rest of the system | 17:53 |
| churl | RST38h: haha thanks | 17:53 |
| hrw | jott: and all file requesters and maemo filemanager show Documents twice? | 17:53 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_extras is the start of my page describing the nitty gritty | 17:54 |
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| jott | hrw: no the broken maemo apps just show MyDocs ;p | 17:54 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: I plan to write some more documentation and make a graph, but there are only so many hours in a day :) | 17:54 |
| jott | but i agree with the curse | 17:54 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: indeed :-( | 17:54 |
| churl | there we go! i can see now! | 17:54 |
| qwerty12 | All someone has to do is recompile libhildonfm to show ~ | 17:55 |
| churl | so what's the general feeling on diablo? | 17:55 |
| hrw | qwerty12: I just had to write the same ;) | 17:55 |
| GAN800 | pekuja, | 17:55 |
| GAN800 | pekuja, talk to AStorm, it's really not worth the pain and suffering you're going to have to go through. Just use Nokia's kernel. . . . | 17:56 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: right, now uploaded new public key :-). Can you prod the keyring import, pleasE? | 17:56 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Done. | 17:57 |
| AStorm | yeah, there are enough bugs in that kernel to feed an anteater | 17:57 |
| dragorn | nice, latest firmware fixes usb host mode | 17:57 |
| AStorm | it's amazing that it works as well as it does | 17:57 |
| pekuja | GAN800, I kinda need the new one. :-/ | 17:57 |
| dragorn | or at least, it hasn't fallen over yet for me | 17:57 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: resubmitted. thanks. | 17:58 |
| nelson | Any reason why 2007's Xomap should consume 36MB memory immediately after booting? | 18:01 |
| nelson | I'm guessing that some persistent storage loaded by X has grown after 1.5 years of operation. | 18:02 |
| nelson | but I can't imagine what it would be. X atoms aren't persistent. Any hints? | 18:03 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: woohoo! It built :-) | 18:03 |
| qwerty12 | ~lart Nokia for not versioning their initfs and kernel packages properly | 18:03 |
| * infobot strangles Nokia with a 9-pole serial cable for not versioning their initfs and kernel packages properly | 18:03 | |
| AStorm | qwerty12: btw, could you drop me a newest kernel patch for nokia? | 18:03 |
| qwerty12 | AStorm, If you mean the diablo kernel, I don't think they do patches anymore :/ : http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/k/ | 18:04 |
| AStorm | no problem full tbz is ok too | 18:04 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: is there a delay between the build succeeding and it appearing in extras-devel? | 18:05 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: nm, it's there now | 18:08 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: Seems that it worked in one go ;) | 18:11 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: aye, that is the very simplest package mud can produce though :) | 18:16 |
| zap | Can somebody add a link here: https://maemo.org/community/wiki/usbnetworking/ ? | 18:20 |
| Jaffa | It's a wiki, you can add links yourself :-) | 18:21 |
| zap | I logged in but I don't see where's the edit button :) | 18:21 |
| Jaffa | Oh, hang on - that's the old wiki. | 18:21 |
| zap | oops | 18:21 |
| Jaffa | zap: http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking | 18:22 |
| zap | I just thought it would be nice to add a link to bug #3243 about usb networking not working with OS2008 and windows | 18:22 |
| melmoth | X-Fade: am i suppose to increment the package version each time i re send one ? | 18:22 |
| Jaffa | Good criteria when updating those migrated pages: delete and restructure more than you add ;-) | 18:22 |
| zap | so that people like me don't spend time trying to make it work | 18:22 |
| melmoth | X-Fade: funnyly enough, the sword package i got in the extra repository is empty, the one i build locally got the packages. And on the we page, (https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/python-sword_1.5.10-3/sources/) still has yesterday timestamp | 18:23 |
| melmoth | grumble, that was the wrong url | 18:24 |
| melmoth | https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/sword_1.5.10-4/sources/ | 18:24 |
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| X-Fade | melmoth: I see sword in the promotor just fine? | 18:26 |
| X-Fade | both sword and sword-dev. | 18:26 |
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| Stskeeps | now.. this may be a stupid question.. is 800x600 the ultimate highest the xserver can run on, on the n800? | 18:27 |
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| melmoth | X-Fade: the package are there, but when i apt-get them, they are empty. | 18:28 |
| melmoth | built locally, they are not empty | 18:28 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, No idea, but if you feel like finding out and risking a reflash, edit x-server.defs | 18:28 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: how long do things take to hit the promoter interface (or is it a separate interface for chinook/diablo)? Not that I want to promote ccal, but want to understand the nuances | 18:29 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: mm, might try on my debian install.. less chance of a reflash | 18:29 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: https://garage.maemo.org/promoter/diablo and https://garage.maemo.org/promoter/chinook | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | *starts his debian installer to see if the integration of X now works* | 18:30 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: ah, cool | 18:30 |
| X-Fade | melmoth: I don't see empty packages. They look ok to me. | 18:31 |
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| X-Fade | I've got to go for now. bbl. | 18:32 |
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| lardman | bmidgley: ping | 18:33 |
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| lardman | Anyone happen to have any thoughts on the relative speed differences of fixed point vs Q15 calculation? | 18:36 |
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| wazd | awkay, I'm ready for that epic football batle tonight :) | 18:38 |
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| nelson | Anybody having trouble with X taking up a huge amount of memory on OS2007? | 18:56 |
| zs_ | hacker edition? | 18:57 |
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| nelson | No, production. | 18:58 |
| nelson | and, it's after a reboot, and before I run any programs (other than ssh and/or X term, of course) | 18:59 |
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| GAN800 | Why are you on OS2007? :/ | 19:00 |
| nelson | kbdd doesn't work on 2008. | 19:01 |
| nelson | or, rather, I need a uinput module for 2008. kbdd would work on os2008 with that. | 19:01 |
| qwerty12 | Um, you do know that fanoush has kbdd for os2008 right? | 19:03 |
| zs_ | yeah why are you on os2007? | 19:03 |
| summatusmentis | maybe he just likes os2007 better! ever think of that? huh? huh? | 19:04 |
| qwerty12 | Don't make me stab you! | 19:04 |
| summatusmentis | you're across the big blue lake, let's see you try it! | 19:05 |
| qwerty12 | Fine, I'll go to Lizard's end and use a slingshot! | 19:05 |
| * summatusmentis hides | 19:06 | |
| qwerty12 | (well, I think it's called lizard's end) | 19:06 |
| summatusmentis | I talk big, but that's about it | 19:06 |
| * GAN800 stabs summatusmentis | 19:06 | |
| summatusmentis | what's lizard's end? | 19:06 |
| summatusmentis | GAN800: from 1000 mi away? | 19:06 |
| qwerty12 | Sorry, Land's end. It's the most western point in the UK | 19:07 |
| summatusmentis | oh, that makes more sense | 19:07 |
| churl | so is a lizards lands end his tail or his wang? | 19:08 |
| GAN800 | Is the source of the OS2007 Application Menu open? | 19:08 |
| GAN800 | I have a long knife. | 19:08 |
| qwerty12 | GAN800, It may be, I'll take a look for you. | 19:08 |
| summatusmentis | GAN800: your mom said I had a long knife too... | 19:08 |
| summatusmentis | I'm done now | 19:09 |
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| GAN800 | I'm just wondering if so many people seem to want the finger detection for the menu why they don't just port that. | 19:09 |
| churl | sorry for directing converstaion in that direction | 19:09 |
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| summatusmentis | finger detection for the menu? | 19:09 |
| nelson | qwerty12: he does? I've looked at his page, and it doesn't list os2008: http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/ | 19:10 |
| qwerty12 | "Nokia 770, N800 with IT2006/7/8" | 19:10 |
| qwerty12 | http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/kbdd.tar.gz | 19:10 |
| nelson | zs_: and yes, I prefer os2008. prettier! | 19:11 |
| nelson | qwerty12: yeah, but the uinput driver for it2008 is not present. | 19:11 |
| nelson | (not being completely bereft of sense, I tried it first) | 19:11 |
| qwerty12 | Yes it is. uinput.ko.2.6.21-omap1. | 19:12 |
| qwerty12 | 2.6.21 is the kernel version of chinook | 19:12 |
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| wazd | Why does Crysis is not support Win 3.11 !( | 19:12 |
| wazd | have anybody faced this problem?( | 19:13 |
| qwerty12 | Yes :( | 19:13 |
| qwerty12 | I wanted to play GTA IV in 3.11 and it said my ram was too low :( | 19:13 |
| wazd | I think it said "it's not a coslole, sry pal" xD | 19:14 |
| summatusmentis | I was reading Win 3.1 for dummies, and they said if you have a large picture of a peacock as your wallpaper, you'll get low memory errors | 19:14 |
| summatusmentis | you're better off to tile smaller pictures of peacockes | 19:14 |
| summatusmentis | peacocks* | 19:14 |
| wazd | Hell, I can't do anything but waiting for footbal( | 19:14 |
| qwerty12 | That would work quite well for you summatusmentis, you could tile your tiny "peacock" to make it seem bigger. | 19:14 |
| nelson | qwerty12: DOH! I had copied over an old version. Sorry, my bad. | 19:15 |
| summatusmentis | qwerty12: you're the one with a picture of it as your wallpaper | 19:15 |
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| qwerty12 | summatusmentis, Shit, I've been caught out. | 19:15 |
| qwerty12 | nelson, You've been holding back on os2008 for how long now? :P | 19:16 |
| nelson | pthththththththht! | 19:16 |
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| wazd | Does anybody know how to edit "project homepage" in garage?) I should be admin?) | 19:17 |
| wazd | Aw, I killed them( | 19:18 |
| qwerty12 | GAN800, Re the OS2007 application menu; it's here: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/bora/free/source/maemo-af-desktop_2.9.99.25-1.tar.gz and http://repository.maemo.org/pool/bora/free/source/maemo-af-desktop-config_0.1.11-1.tar.gz but the "archictecture" seems vastly different from the present hildon-desktop for anyone to do a straight port imo. | 19:19 |
| GAN800 | Interesting, thanks. | 19:19 |
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| GAN800 | It'd be a fun way to make Karel STFU if it were an easy port. | 19:20 |
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| qwerty12 | Lol, it's kinda annoying now. I mean, I know the guy hates internet tablets. Great. But a 1000 posts later to the same effect makes me want to say fuck off. | 19:20 |
| wazd | Karel? he's cool) | 19:21 |
| GAN800 | He's a troll. | 19:21 |
| wazd | Don't think that he hates tablets. But he points things that are really bad | 19:22 |
| wazd | what's wrong with that | 19:22 |
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| hrw|gone | bye | 19:22 |
| GAN800 | Mostly he just trolls these days. | 19:22 |
| qwerty12 | ~lart /me for forgetting to backup the mods in my initfs | 19:22 |
| * infobot cuts off /me's head with a halberd that could have been a little bit sharper for forgetting to backup the mods in my initfs | 19:22 | |
| wazd | cya | 19:22 |
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| GAN800 | You, evidently, haven't seen him in action much, wazd. ;) | 19:22 |
| GAN800 | He spends his time trolling about the Pandora now. | 19:23 |
| Jaffa | *cough* vapourware *cough* | 19:23 |
| nelson | does Pandora come in a boxed version? | 19:24 |
| GAN800 | I like reading his 'get the Pandora in April' posts. | 19:24 |
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| Jaffa | nelson: heh. Seriously, does it even come in a *case* yet? ;-) | 19:24 |
| GAN800 | nelson, it doesn't come in anything yet. | 19:24 |
| crashanddie | wth is pandora , | 19:24 |
| GAN800 | It's still non-existent. | 19:25 |
| wazd | wrong) It is) | 19:25 |
| wazd | But devel-only | 19:25 |
| GAN800 | They've shipped 100 dev boards to kernel hacker-types. | 19:25 |
| GAN800 | Way behind schedule | 19:25 |
| sjgadsby | It's always nice to be told again that the non-existant software on the non-existant Pandora is better than Internet Tablet OS. | 19:26 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: an evolution of the GP2X: a hobbyist's ARM board intended to be used in a semi-mythical "ultimate" gaming device. | 19:26 |
| GAN800 | lol | 19:26 |
| crashanddie | oh | 19:26 |
| GAN800 | It wont even really have software | 19:26 |
| crashanddie | yeah, nothing fancy then | 19:26 |
| GAN800 | It's basically just an emu loader. | 19:27 |
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| GAN800 | Probably Debian to come later. | 19:27 |
| wazd | Well, I aggree tat it's wrong to compare Pandora and ITT's ) | 19:27 |
| summatusmentis | Internet Tablet Talks? | 19:27 |
| sjgadsby | Yeah, well Debian's coming on the tablets too. *shruggles* | 19:27 |
| wazd | It's like compare iPhone 6 and n1000 xD | 19:28 |
| nelson | Ubuntu's already there. | 19:28 |
| nelson | anybody know what package hidd is now in? | 19:28 |
| wazd | AWWW, ubuntu MID is SO fricking awful!11 | 19:28 |
| wazd | It looks like OS2005 or 6 | 19:28 |
| nelson | Under OS2007 it was in bluez-utils and it's not there in OS2008. | 19:28 |
| nelson | wazd: OS2004. | 19:29 |
| GAN800 | Ubuntu Mobile still needs some time | 19:29 |
| wazd | I think that there were no 04 :) | 19:29 |
| qwerty12 | nelson, I believe hcid replaced it | 19:29 |
| sjgadsby | Have any apps been shown for Ubuntu Mobile yet, or is it still just always the launcher? | 19:29 |
| wazd | How can such a big company throw to a market such a badly designed thing | 19:30 |
| nelson | qwerty12: tnx. | 19:30 |
| Jaffa | wazd: the moblin team is even smaller than the maemo one, AFAICT | 19:30 |
| wazd | Jaffa, well, and no quallity control from Canonical? | 19:31 |
| Jaffa | wazd: no idea, I was just following the dev list for a few months | 19:31 |
| GAN800 | Hasn't really shipped yet, so. . . . | 19:32 |
| wazd | Jaffa, I think they should find some UI and design masters | 19:32 |
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| wazd | Right now Microsoft origami 2 looks hell much slicker and adorable | 19:33 |
| wazd | Can I say "Microsoft" here?) | 19:34 |
| summatusmentis | /kick wazd | 19:34 |
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| GAN800 | But also bloated as shit | 19:36 |
| wazd | So, once more, should I be Admin to change "progect home page" in the garage?) | 19:36 |
| Jaffa | wazd: certainly a contributor to the project with sufficient rights. "Admin" is certainly good enough :) | 19:37 |
| Jaffa | But I think the admin can define the capabilities of each of the other roles | 19:37 |
| GAN800 | Anyway, there isn't a whole lot of point in lingering over this stuff until it's actually shipped. | 19:37 |
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| wazd | Jaffa, and where should I find appropriate button or FTP settings?) | 19:39 |
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| Jaffa | wazd: On your garage project page, click "Admin", then "Edit public info" and it's the third field | 19:39 |
| GAN800 | www folder in svn, isn't it? | 19:39 |
| Jaffa | GAN800: no, you can point it anywhere you like; doesn't have to be http://<project>.garage.maemo.org/ (which is www in svn, as you say) | 19:40 |
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| GAN800 | Ah, I see. | 19:40 |
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| wazd | the problem is that I'm not an admin but I need to update OMWeather homepage :) | 19:46 |
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| Jaffa | wazd: then you need to be given the "be able to edit public info" privilege, full-blown admin rights, or get the admin to do it | 19:52 |
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| qwerty12 | Here, random package time. cfdisk: http://www.mediafire.com/?992d1yvr4z3 . Now, for those who feel like breaking something: http://www.mediafire.com/?2ssty1y8y35 & http://www.mediafire.com/?h3yewblvvxh . Those last 2 packages will make hildon applications show $HOME as root, not $MYDOCS dir ;) | 20:28 |
| summatusmentis | qwerty12: what is this mediafire site? | 20:30 |
| qwerty12 | Just a random file hoster | 20:30 |
| summatusmentis | oh... this is stuff you built | 20:30 |
| qwerty12 | Yeah | 20:31 |
| lcuk_work | qwerty12, are you in 1337 hacking mood | 20:33 |
| summatusmentis | qwerty12: you should put them in garage or something | 20:34 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk_work, nah, just bored :P :) | 20:34 |
| qwerty12 | summatusmentis, Dunno, the cfdisk is a ripped package for example. busybox whines like a bitch when installing util-linux (the original source of cfdisk) so I just ripped out cfdisk and call it it's own package :) | 20:35 |
| qwerty12 | The other 2, I can't justify an garage project for them :) | 20:35 |
| lcuk_work | aren't there any other file managers around that are workable | 20:36 |
| * lcuk_work would have thought there was | 20:36 | |
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| qwerty12 | emelfm2 | 20:36 |
| summatusmentis | lcuk: kde | 20:36 |
| summatusmentis | oh, file managers, not window managers | 20:36 |
| summatusmentis | >_> | 20:36 |
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| konttori_ | has the kde dolphin been ported for the current kde distribution? | 20:38 |
| konttori_ | that's quite nice FM | 20:38 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Is dolphin in kde 3 as well? | 20:39 |
| lcuk | is kde available on standard maemo ? ;) | 20:39 |
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| lcuk | although 4.1 looks quite nice | 20:40 |
| summatusmentis | qwerty12_N800: I don't think so | 20:40 |
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| lcuk_ | back l8r | 20:41 |
| qwerty12_N800 | In that case I refer konttori to http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13958 with a note saying not to get excited :/ | 20:43 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: Would you be interested in porting Nether Earth to Maemo? | 20:56 |
| RST38h | qwerty: pupnik says he has no time and neither do I =( | 20:56 |
| megosdog | Hey, silly question. Does this usb networking tutorial work for the N810? -> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/usbnetworking/ | 20:57 |
| megosdog | It only shows the 770 and the 800. | 20:57 |
| qwerty12_N800 | RST38h, I could try but I can't assure brilliant results :/ | 20:57 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Do you mean this one: http://www.braingames.getput.com/nether/default.asp ? | 20:59 |
| RST38h | yep | 21:00 |
| RST38h | it is one of the first strategy games and one of the best ones too | 21:00 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Hmm, it says it uses opengl. | 21:02 |
| RST38h | really? the original speccy game definitely DID NOT =) | 21:03 |
| * L0cutus have compiled dcron 3.1 for n800 (not deb, but with an installer) | 21:04 | |
| RST38h | Hehe, DC gun ban overturned by SCOTUS | 21:04 |
| RST38h | let the slaughter begin =) | 21:04 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Yeah, this remake says it's gfx is rendered in opengl. I could still compile but expect slow speeds :/ | 21:04 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: it is probably not worth the effort then =( | 21:05 |
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| crashanddie | I kicked the GMail notifier | 21:09 |
| crashanddie | everytime I had spam, and I thought "oh, sweet, a reply" *clickety click* "fack" | 21:09 |
| summatusmentis | I'm still deciding if I like modest better or no | 21:09 |
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| crashanddie | Modest is awesomely better | 21:10 |
| Jaffa | qwerty12_N800: presumably you did the "show $HOME at root of file managers" by changing MYDOCS line in /etc/osso-af-init/af-defines.sh? | 21:10 |
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| * Jaffa changed his to /media/mmc2/MyDocs using that to stop having to backup anything except settings | 21:10 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | Jaffa, That would be a simpler method :/. I changed it in the libhildonfm libraries. | 21:11 |
| Jaffa | qwerty12_N800: I thought you might've made more work for yourself ;-) | 21:11 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Heh | 21:11 |
| megosdog | Hey, anyone know about that usb networking tutorial? If it's ok to use it on the n810, I'd love to know. I'd also think that an update might be in order for the page too. :) | 21:11 |
| qwerty12_N800 | I'm gonna have to use debian pinning on the xserver-xomap :/ | 21:12 |
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| Jaffa | megosdog: follow it, find out, update wherever appropriate ;-) | 21:13 |
| megosdog | heh. I guess i'm not quite that brave. ;) | 21:14 |
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| wazd | 1 hour remain :) | 21:14 |
| wazd | Anyone here form Spain?) | 21:14 |
| qwerty12_N800 | russia v spain? | 21:14 |
| qwerty12_N800 | itv here are broadcasting it :/ | 21:14 |
| summatusmentis | wazd: sometimes I wish I were from spain | 21:15 |
| wazd | yep) I really don't know who to cheer now) | 21:15 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: FWIW, on PGP key change the builder should now import the key at the same time. | 21:15 |
| qwerty12_N800 | bbc messed up nicely yesterday with their broadcast of turkey v germany :/ | 21:15 |
| wazd | Spain is veeeeeryy nice team, but Russia is Russia :) | 21:15 |
| RST38h | wazd: just moe your car somewhere safe, if you have one | 21:15 |
| megabyte405 | megosdog: there is a maemo development kit thing available on the tablet that adds USB networking control panel support | 21:15 |
| RST38h | s/moe/move/ | 21:15 |
| infobot | RST38h meant: wazd: just move your car somewhere safe, if you have one | 21:15 |
| wazd | Whole Moscow is screaming and horning already) | 21:15 |
| summatusmentis | wazd: oh, a soccer game, I assume? | 21:15 |
| summatusmentis | or football | 21:15 |
| wazd | yep) | 21:15 |
| summatusmentis | or whatever | 21:15 |
| wazd | Well, my car is far from here now) | 21:16 |
| summatusmentis | or if you're from spain futbol :D | 21:16 |
| wazd | Sister took it to the country ) | 21:16 |
| megosdog | megabyte405: Where can I find that? | 21:16 |
| melmoth | X-Fade: you here ? | 21:17 |
| X-Fade | melmoth: sure.. | 21:17 |
| melmoth | i rebuild the sword packages | 21:17 |
| melmoth | same problem. | 21:17 |
| melmoth | the i386 packaeg is empty | 21:17 |
| melmoth | the armel one is ok | 21:17 |
| melmoth | locally, both are ok. | 21:18 |
| X-Fade | melmoth: This one? https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2008q2/000551.html | 21:18 |
| melmoth | yep | 21:18 |
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| X-Fade | They look fine to me? | 21:19 |
| X-Fade | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/s/sword/ | 21:20 |
| melmoth | try apt-get install sword in a i386 target and list its content | 21:20 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: cool. Is the only way of changing key through invite still atm? | 21:20 |
| melmoth | all i have is the /usr/share/doc files | 21:21 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Yes, do you care to test it for me ;) | 21:22 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: sure, I can gen a new key | 21:22 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: I can see that it updates without that. I think ;) | 21:22 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: too late came the cry :) | 21:23 |
| X-Fade | melmoth: I really don't see a problem. | 21:23 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: right, I've got a key ready to paste | 21:23 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: I'll invite you again? | 21:23 |
| melmoth | X-Fade: i an reproduce it at will here with " fakeroot apt-get remove sword;fakeroot apt-get update;fakeroot apt-get install sword" | 21:24 |
| X-Fade | melmoth: I think your apt cache is not ok. | 21:24 |
| melmoth | lets try an apt-get clean again | 21:24 |
| X-Fade | melmoth: And are you sure you use the diablo extras-devel? | 21:24 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: done | 21:25 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Crap :( | 21:25 |
| melmoth | yep | 21:25 |
| melmoth | deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel diablo free non-free | 21:26 |
| melmoth | deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel diablo free non-free | 21:26 |
| melmoth | there is no other sword-1.5.10-5 anywhere else | 21:26 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: bang? | 21:26 |
| * tlax wonders where this has gone: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/how_to_write_new_application_in_maemo_4-0.html | 21:26 | |
| X-Fade | melmoth: But I think your local package cache is not ok. | 21:26 |
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| melmoth | Get:1 http://repository.maemo.org diablo/free sword 1.5.10-5 [16.2kB] | 21:27 |
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| melmoth | i got nothing in /var/cache/apt (excetp some pkgcache.bin srcpkgcache.bin) | 21:28 |
| melmoth | plus the 1.5.10-5 version was only compiled and dput on the repository once | 21:28 |
| X-Fade | melmoth: But that get is just fine, right? | 21:29 |
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| inode0 | does anyone know if the feed reader is broken in diablo (or whether some old configuration I have is mucking it up)? | 21:29 |
| melmoth | no | 21:29 |
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| melmoth | it was ok locally. | 21:30 |
| melmoth | the one i got from the repository is not | 21:30 |
| melmoth | well, the armel one is ok, but not the i386 one | 21:30 |
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| X-Fade | melmoth: What size does it say it should be? | 21:30 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: Can you try it again :) Same key should be ok. | 21:32 |
| Jaffa | inode0: mine didn't work all yesterday, immediately after reflash - no matter how many times I hit refresh. By this morning, it'd updated | 21:32 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: need another invite? | 21:32 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: You already got that ;) | 21:32 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: done | 21:32 |
| melmoth | 1216 sword_1.5.10-4_i386.deb | 21:32 |
| melmoth | -rw-r--r-- 1 user user 1240338 Jun 25 21:29 sword_1.5.10-4_i386.deb | 21:33 |
| inode0 | hrm, ok, I'll put the config back and let it sit for a day, thanks | 21:33 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: What url do you use /my/contrib.php ? | 21:33 |
| melmoth | GRumble, got the same after dpkg -i a package manually downloaded (wget http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/s/sword/sword_1.5.10-5_i386.deb | 21:34 |
| wazd | Well, good luck all, the Game begins :) | 21:34 |
| melmoth | ) | 21:34 |
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| melmoth | hmmm, the local one is the old one.. i compiled the -5 elewhere... | 21:36 |
| Sho_ | Does anyone know if the cifs.ko that used to work with ITOS2008 still works with Diablo? | 21:36 |
| RST38h | wazd: what channel is showing it anyway? | 21:36 |
| melmoth | dont remeber when, i just apt-get source sword from the repo, change the changelog and recompile dit | 21:36 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: yep | 21:36 |
| Sho_ | or maybe an easier question, can anyone run uname -a and tell me the kernel version on Diablo? | 21:37 |
| melmoth | X-Fade: i just rebuild the source one..i m doing a binary one now on i386 | 21:37 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Sho_, still 2.6.21 | 21:38 |
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| Sho_ | qwerty12_N800: thanks | 21:39 |
| Sho_ | module might still work then | 21:39 |
| Sho_ | one thing I really wished for for Diablo was CIFS/SMB support with authentication in the file manager :/ | 21:39 |
| qwerty12_N800 | If programming is your forte, apt-get source libhildonfm and you can implement it yourself :/ | 21:41 |
| Sho_ | qwerty12_N800: Would I also be able to get it upstream, though? | 21:42 |
| melmoth | X-Fade: -rw-r--r-- 1 user user 1240340 Jun 26 20:41 sword_1.5.10-5_i386.deb | 21:42 |
| inode0 | the feed reader seems to think the device is full, sigh | 21:42 |
| X-Fade | melmoth: Yes? | 21:42 |
| X-Fade | melmoth: Is that the right one? | 21:42 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Sho_, I'd guess not ;/ | 21:42 |
| qwerty12_N800 | *:/ | 21:42 |
| melmoth | This one works locally. A,nd it is build with the same source as the one on the xtras-devel repos | 21:43 |
| Sho_ | qwerty12_N800: shame | 21:43 |
| melmoth | X-Fade: look at the size difference betwwen arhc on the repo itself http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/s/sword/ | 21:44 |
| X-Fade | melmoth: Ah, I see your problem. | 21:44 |
| melmoth | why would i386 package be 100 time smaller than an amrel one ? | 21:44 |
| X-Fade | melmoth: You said it was empty. But it is not. It is just very small ;) | 21:44 |
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| melmoth | there are no file in it, except the /usr/share/doc put there by i dont know wich dh_stuff | 21:45 |
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| X-Fade | melmoth: Weird indeed.. | 21:49 |
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| X-Fade | melmoth: Does it do the same on the chinook builder? | 21:50 |
| melmoth | And you know what, i think i had the same problem the other way around ('empty' armel one) when playing with autbuild extras-devel on chinook | 21:50 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Happens to me a lot. I just repack afterwards :/ (of course, I wouldn't recommend that for a package in extras ;)...) | 21:50 |
| RST38h | BTW, in the Maps application, is there a way to avoid those nagging dialogs about buying navigation? | 21:50 |
| melmoth | at the time i though i made a mistake locally and just rebuild a package with a new version, and it worked | 21:50 |
| mgedmin | RST38h: use Maemo Mapper ;-) | 21:50 |
| qwerty12_N800 | RST38h, Buy it? :p | 21:50 |
| X-Fade | melmoth: lol, I see that too. | 21:50 |
| X-Fade | melmoth: Ok, don't spend any more time on it today. I'll ask the autobuilder guru ;) | 21:51 |
| RST38h | qwerty: I do not want navigation. Just want maps + this thing to shut up | 21:51 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Maps has vector maps, they zoom better | 21:51 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Heh, I thought you Russians were brilliant at disassembling? | 21:52 |
| PhosphoricX | I'm setting up communication between a phone and a maemo device, can anyone recommend a protocol for the maemo sending inquiries and the cell phone responding? It seems silly to reinvent this myself. | 21:52 |
| melmoth | Ok, thanks for looking into this ! | 21:52 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: I am too lazy to hack this thing | 21:55 |
| RST38h | qwerty: not worth it, imho | 21:56 |
| X-Fade | melmoth: Hmm chinook version looks ok to me? | 21:56 |
| qwerty12_N800 | RST38h, :) | 21:56 |
| X-Fade | melmoth: Almost same size for i386 and armel. | 21:56 |
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| melmoth | indeed. But in chinook, the problem solved itself on its own after recompiling yet another time | 22:06 |
| melmoth | so i guess, the problematic one would be sword_1.5.10-2_armel.deb wich, strangely enough has nearly the same size too. | 22:07 |
| melmoth | i m puzzled | 22:07 |
| X-Fade | melmoth: I asked Ed and Misha, will get back to you on that. | 22:07 |
| konttori_ | qwerty12_N800: sweeeeet!!! thanks for the link!!! | 22:07 |
| bmidgley | lardman pong | 22:07 |
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| konttori_ | i love that dolphin isn't tying to be too much. it just works | 22:09 |
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| Andy80 | hi all | 22:16 |
| Andy80 | anyone of you noticed longer battery life using diablo? or is it only a my impression? | 22:17 |
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| kkrusty | Andy80: could be so, could also be because of a clean install | 22:19 |
| kkrusty | Andy80: thats in case there actually was a difference, It could also just be in your head | 22:19 |
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| Andy80 | ok | 22:20 |
| lbt | can applications written in gtkmm be uploaded to extras given the new autobuilder? | 22:20 |
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| * lbt wonders. | 22:21 | |
| mgedmin | try? | 22:21 |
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| X-Fade | lbt: Yes, but I don't think the rebuilded packages are uploaded yet. | 22:22 |
| X-Fade | lbt: We hope to do that this night or tomorrow. | 22:22 |
| lbt | Ta - it'll be a while yet - just wondering if the dependency libraries etc are there... | 22:22 |
| Mikho | why does it seem that you have to use older libraries with maemo distributions than necessary? | 22:22 |
| Mikho | for example, libcurl is version 7.15.5 | 22:23 |
| Mikho | it is old | 22:23 |
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| X-Fade | Mikho: Upload a newer version? | 22:23 |
| churl | question: can you store application data on a SD mem card? or does all that have to fit into the devices mem? | 22:23 |
| lbt | Is it reasonable to start trying to use the autobuilder etc with an absolute bare-minimum skeleton? Or should I wait until it's nearer to being done? | 22:24 |
| lbt | (ie "hello world" in gtkmm | 22:24 |
| lbt | ) | 22:24 |
| Mikho | hmm... libcurl is not just a maemo thing | 22:24 |
| X-Fade | lbt: You can always try it out. You will get a log of why it failed. | 22:24 |
| Mikho | I just ran into trouble, believing libcurl would copy the strings passed to it as data | 22:24 |
| lcuk_ | "it built! SHIP IT !!!" | 22:24 |
| lbt | OK - ta. Since real people are looking at it I don't want to waste their time... | 22:25 |
| Mikho | but libcurl does it only from 7.17 | 22:25 |
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| lbt | lcuk_: yep - that's about it!! | 22:25 |
| Mikho | why are maemo libraries so badly outdated? | 22:25 |
| lcuk_ | because you are in the future | 22:25 |
| Mikho | I ran into strange problems with gtk versions too | 22:25 |
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| lbt_ | just to make lcuk_ feel comfortable | 22:26 |
| Mikho | the libraries keep changing interfaces, and that's not a very good thing | 22:26 |
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| Mikho | www.maemo.org also keeps changing page urls | 22:27 |
| churl | question: can you store application data on a SD mem card? or does all that have to fit into the devices mem?:-D | 22:27 |
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| lcuk | :D | 22:27 |
| churl | :-* | 22:27 |
| Mikho | </complaint> | 22:27 |
| kkrusty | churl: use ln? | 22:27 |
| lcuk | Mikho, a new version of the OS has just been released | 22:27 |
| lcuk | give it a few days for things to settle down | 22:27 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: BTW, what'll happen with the auto-builder if you upload, say an ..._i38.changes and corresponding deb? Will it still build the source, or will it break? | 22:28 |
| Mikho | i'm afraid, if I develop software for the newer version, it won't run on vanilla N810:s | 22:28 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: It will leave them in the incoming dir. | 22:28 |
| Mikho | and whatever the reason, that's not desirable | 22:29 |
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| kkrusty | churl: you're question reminds me of dwight | 22:30 |
| churl | kkrusty: um, i flashed, and was reinstalling old apps. the devices mem filled up so it gave me the old. "not enough mem, continue with install?" i want to know if i can install on on of my SD cards | 22:30 |
| churl | good ol' dwight, how is he these days? | 22:30 |
| Mikho | how is maemo 4.1 different from chinook? | 22:30 |
| churl | .1 | 22:30 |
| Jaffa | Mikho: bug fixes, minor updates. End-user OS features Seamless Software Upgrade | 22:31 |
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| kkrusty | churl: you can use ln to make symbolic links for paths in your device mem to that on your SD | 22:31 |
| Mikho | compability? | 22:31 |
| kkrusty | churl: I take it that you havent watched The Office | 22:32 |
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| kkrusty | churl: for instance I made a symbolic link for the path to the dictionary files for stardict. | 22:33 |
| churl | oh i have, but not really, my old gf watched every episode while i sat on the couch | 22:33 |
| Jaffa | Mikho: should be pretty much full binary compatibility | 22:33 |
| churl | ive looked this up, and found nothing, could you point me to a good link where i can read up on how i can do this? | 22:33 |
| Mikho | has anyone backed up on that? | 22:33 |
| churl | kkrusty: a link would rock, and maybe what it's called that im trying to do so i can google it | 22:34 |
| Mikho | What version of N810 is nokia shipping at the moment? | 22:34 |
| kkrusty | churl: google "man ln" | 22:35 |
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| kkrusty | churl: and you'll have to use terminal in Utilities I think | 22:36 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: Oh, whilst you're here. Do you know if the maemo.org accounts store creation date? It's being discussed as part of the voting policy in the elections for the Community Council: http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Task:Community_Council | 22:36 |
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| churl | kkrusty: is this a very common thing that needs to be done? | 22:37 |
| kkrusty | churl: using ln? | 22:37 |
| churl | kkrusty: yeah, linking the devices mem to a SD card | 22:38 |
| kkrusty | churl: Im not sure. but its pretty useful | 22:38 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: It seems gforge doesn't, i have to check for midgard. | 22:38 |
| kkrusty | churl: you're not actually linking device mem to SD card mem. You're just telling your OS that this directory is actually a link to another place | 22:39 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: OK. BTW, my latest package got rejected - I guess my new key hasn't been picked up :-( | 22:39 |
| churl | kkrusty: seems so, i guess ill just read up on and an give it a whurl. i asked cause i havnt found a step by step how to, or the same question posted | 22:39 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: I will do it manually now. | 22:39 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: thanks | 22:40 |
| megabyte405 | megosdog: I just found it in my app manager | 22:40 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Done. | 22:41 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: ta | 22:41 |
| kkrusty | churl: its possible that no one has written one because it isnt something specific to maemo. You can google "ln linking directories" which should give you something fairly generic | 22:41 |
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| churl | kkrusty: cool thanks | 22:42 |
| Mikho | does anybody else think C is a disease that should be removed from the world? | 22:43 |
| lbt | Mikho: well | 22:43 |
| Jaffa | Mikho: for anything but the lowest level code, I can see a very strong argument | 22:43 |
| lbt | C + OO gui toolkits - yes!!! | 22:43 |
| Jaffa | But then I've been spoilt by Java; hence my muchos interest in vala | 22:44 |
| lbt | OTOH - you could go to lkml and see what they say... | 22:44 |
| inode0 | hehe | 22:44 |
| Mikho | I have a strong argument, but I believe the world would be a better place without C, maybe replaced with C++ or something | 22:44 |
| lbt | good luck with that :) | 22:44 |
| Jaffa | Heh, I wonder if there's been a "u suxx0rz shud reright Linix in python. it r0xx!!!11" | 22:44 |
| Jaffa | Mikho: the biggest advantage of C is that it's *not* C++. | 22:45 |
| kkrusty | Jaffa: and that would mean .... | 22:45 |
| lbt | I watched Linus write git in C - there's nothing wrong with it... That was a moving experience... | 22:45 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: I'm going to get some sleep. If you run into problems, just let me know. | 22:46 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: will do, thanks for your help | 22:46 |
| Mikho | I traced for 4-5 hours a problem the compiler could have taken care of | 22:46 |
| Mikho | gtk libraries try to imitate objective behavior with weird typecasts and such | 22:47 |
| Jaffa | Mikho: seriously, look at Vala: http://live.gnome.org/Vala | 22:47 |
| Mikho | hmm.. what is this | 22:48 |
| Jaffa | It's a Java/C#-style language based around the GLib GObject system, with all modern facilities like auto GC etc. but compiles straight down to C | 22:48 |
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| Mikho | sound like worth investigating | 22:48 |
| lbt | Or, if you like pure C++, gtkmm - which is what I'm playing with... | 22:49 |
| * jott wonders if gtk 3 will be written in vala :P | 22:49 | |
| lbt | or, if you like more OO and aren't a C++ purist, Qt is really nice from a design PoV | 22:49 |
| lbt | I will look at Vala RSN though :) | 22:49 |
| Mikho | does gtkmm work well with maemo? | 22:49 |
| derf | Why would _anyone_ like C++? | 22:50 |
| Mikho | I remember trying it in semi-noob stage | 22:50 |
| lbt | There should be a wiki pointing out the various languages/libraries | 22:50 |
| jott | derf: why would anyone like gtk? | 22:50 |
| Mikho | C++ is a huge improvement over C | 22:50 |
| jott | (same stupid question) | 22:50 |
| lbt | C++ is huge over C | 22:50 |
| derf | C++ is a giant step backwards. | 22:50 |
| vegai | C vs C++ yay | 22:51 |
| Mikho | C has it's advantages, mostly being very effective if it runs correctly | 22:51 |
| glass_ | why would anyone like what i don't like | 22:51 |
| lbt | C++ should only be written in emacs | 22:51 |
| Mikho | oh, sorry, didn | 22:51 |
| Jaffa | Because the glass is half-full. | 22:51 |
| Stskeeps | hm, afterstep on tablet isn't half bad. it's very stylus able | 22:51 |
| derf | Mikho: C++ has all the same runtime problems as C, except it's vastly more comlicated, making it much harder for the programmer to get it right. | 22:51 |
| Mikho | 't want to instigate language wars | 22:52 |
| jott | usually a c++ rant ends with someone pointing out bad features noone really uses :p | 22:52 |
| lpotter | lbt: agreed! | 22:52 |
| lbt | Mikho: yeah, right!! | 22:52 |
| lbt | where is emacs for my N800 | 22:52 |
| vegai | if your VM cannot fit in 4KB, the language is worthless | 22:52 |
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| Mikho | sounds like a lot of java lovers here | 22:52 |
| lbt | lpotter: I hope you don't use xemacs? | 22:52 |
| Mikho | me being one | 22:52 |
| glass_ | i like java | 22:52 |
| derf | vegai: Let's all use LISP, then. | 22:52 |
| lpotter | i use several flavors of emacs | 22:52 |
| lpotter | uemacs on devices :) | 22:53 |
| vegai | derf: I was thinking of forth, really, but ... | 22:53 |
| lbt | lpotter: is there an N800 port - I didn't spot it... | 22:53 |
| * lpotter is partial to Qt | 22:53 | |
| lbt | (hanoi) | 22:53 |
| Mikho | derf, I fail to understand how C++ is harder for the programmer to get it right | 22:53 |
| dragorn | C++ has a lot of advantages to it, but C99 brought some of those to C, unfortunately templates are fuuugly. | 22:53 |
| vegai | although I dislike C++ quite a lot, I find Qt a better toolkit than GTK | 22:53 |
| dragorn | (and I write a lot of C++) | 22:54 |
| vegai | because GTK just tries to make C into a C++, and that's a path of failure | 22:54 |
| lpotter | lbt: not sure if I have uemacs for n800 | 22:54 |
| vegai | better to use the real thing, even if it's not the best thing in the world | 22:54 |
| derf | Mikho: C++ does a million more things behind your back than C. | 22:54 |
| Mikho | well, gtk is not the source of my problems, although it has something to do with it | 22:54 |
| lbt | vegai: I think gtkmm and Qt are quite comparable | 22:54 |
| derf | Exceptions are a huge one. | 22:55 |
| dragorn | exceptions aren't behind your back, and you're not required to use them (though if you touch STL you'll get odd failures if you don't.) | 22:55 |
| glass_ | having the option of having them isn't bad | 22:55 |
| derf | dragorn: There's no other way for a constructor to fail. | 22:55 |
| Mikho | derf, I understand your point, but I doubt it's a million things it does | 22:55 |
| lpotter | Qtopia does not use exceptions | 22:56 |
| lpotter | exceptions are for ninnies ;) | 22:56 |
| derf | But C++ preaches RAAI, so you're expected to write constructors that can fail. | 22:56 |
| Mikho | I don't think obfuscating the difference between pointers and objects is the solution | 22:56 |
| Mikho | never liked that in java | 22:57 |
| derf | And destructors... they make exceptions a complete mess. | 22:57 |
| glass_ | Mikho: yeah that can sometimes confuse.. not often though, mostly i like how it's done | 22:57 |
| derf | Now, if people actually wrote code that did no useful work in constructors and destructors, you might be able to get away without exceptions. | 22:58 |
| Mikho | I know now how it's done, but I didn't know at first | 22:58 |
| Mikho | I think it's unnecessarily complicated | 22:58 |
| Mikho | why doesn't the programmer get to choose when to pass a copy and when a pointer? | 22:58 |
| derf | Mikho: The main goal of the "obfuscation" is to make garbage collection work. | 22:58 |
| Mikho | oh, actually he does in java too, but | 22:58 |
| lpotter | derf: Qtopia does not use exceptions at all | 22:59 |
| Mikho | it's unnecessarily implicit | 22:59 |
| Mikho | well, garbage collection is a good thing, worth sacrificing some amateur programmers | 22:59 |
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| derf | Mikho: You can't have arbitrary pointers _and_ garbage collection. | 23:00 |
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| Mikho | I guess so | 23:00 |
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| derf | I mean, you can, but it will be broken. | 23:00 |
| MangoFusion | garbage collection sucks in firefox | 23:00 |
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| MangoFusion | </mini rant> | 23:01 |
| derf | MangoFusion: They'll get there. The engineers are over a decade behind in GC technology, but it shouldn't be too hard to catch up if they find someone who knows what they're doing. | 23:01 |
| Mikho | Garbage collection is perfectly good, unless the code is written perfectly | 23:01 |
| mgedmin | fsyncs suck in firefox | 23:01 |
| MangoFusion | haha | 23:01 |
| Mikho | I guess that isn't so often | 23:01 |
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| Khertan | we can t upload package with dput to diablo ? | 23:02 |
| mgedmin | so, what's up with those annoying DING! noises my Maemo Mapper makes EVERY COUPLE OF SECONDS WITHOUT STOPPING? | 23:02 |
| mgedmin | anyone else get that? | 23:02 |
| Mikho | I wonder if programmmers will get java-like environment to work in mobile gadgets as well? | 23:02 |
| Khertan | java suvk;s | 23:02 |
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| Khertan | sucks | 23:02 |
| derf | Mikho: Memory management errors are both extremely common and hard to debug. | 23:02 |
| Mikho | I know | 23:02 |
| derf | It makes sense for a higher-level language to jump through quite some hoops to eliminate them. | 23:03 |
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| Mikho | I write countless lines of debug output to trace them every day | 23:03 |
| derf | I can't imaigne using a high-level language that _didn't_ have GC. | 23:03 |
| glass_ | Mikho: ..like j2me, or personal profile java? | 23:03 |
| derf | In fact, I'd argue that's a contradiction in terms. | 23:03 |
| glass_ | Mikho: or the vm in googles android.. | 23:03 |
| Mikho | I know there are some solutions, but at the moment my project is in maemo | 23:04 |
| Mikho | and gtk | 23:04 |
| Khertan | noone have tryed to upload to diablo repository with dput ?, | 23:04 |
| melmoth | Khertan: i did | 23:04 |
| melmoth | it s sort of ...funky lately | 23:04 |
| Khertan | does it work ? | 23:05 |
| melmoth | well..It all depend :) | 23:05 |
| Khertan | i get a permission denied | 23:05 |
| mgedmin | Khertan: are youd putting a source or a binary package? | 23:05 |
| Khertan | twice | 23:05 |
| Khertan | but by ssh | 23:05 |
| melmoth | Khertan: i had that twice today | 23:05 |
| Khertan | not by the web interface | 23:05 |
| melmoth | then it came back as usual. | 23:05 |
| melmoth | me too, using dput | 23:05 |
| Khertan | hum ... strange | 23:05 |
| Khertan | this repository is more and more borring me | 23:06 |
| Khertan | i ll make my own and this ll be far simpliest | 23:06 |
| melmoth | on fait pas d omelette sans casser des oeux | 23:06 |
| Khertan | ouais mais ca me saoul | 23:06 |
| melmoth | it m also a bit furtsrated by the complexity and lack of testing of it, but the goal is a good one | 23:07 |
| mgedmin | melmoth: you should read The Jennifer Morgue by Charles Stross | 23:07 |
| Khertan | i pass more time to make package than to dev | 23:07 |
| melmoth | never heard of the guy | 23:07 |
| Khertan | yes the goal will be good .... but isn t now | 23:07 |
| Mikho | I wonder how many people are using gtkmm at the moment? | 23:08 |
| mgedmin | sorry, melmoth, I meant _The Atrocity Archives_ | 23:08 |
| mgedmin | it has a hilarious interlude about a guy making an omelette without breaking the eggshell | 23:08 |
| Khertan | so ... i m tired, i ll going to sleep | 23:08 |
| Khertan | bye | 23:08 |
| mgedmin | Stross is a genius | 23:08 |
| melmoth | Huhu, ok i got it now | 23:08 |
| * mgedmin reboots | 23:09 | |
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| Khertan | bye | 23:09 |
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| * melmoth is currebtly in Riddley Walker | 23:09 | |
| melmoth | it aint eesy tu reed, but it sure is kul | 23:09 |
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| kulve | has somebody already tested if ogg-support works with diablo? | 23:19 |
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| mgedmin | kulve: no, but I can test right now | 23:27 |
| mgedmin | heh, the startup infotip says "Media Player (OGG) - Loading" | 23:27 |
| mgedmin | I never noticed that before | 23:27 |
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| mgedmin | it plays my oggs | 23:28 |
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| mgedmin | that's the chinook version of ogg-support, btw | 23:29 |
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| lbt | melmoth: if you like that you may also like Feersum Edjinn by Iain M Banks <grin> | 23:31 |
| kulve | mgedmin: yeah, I haven't even installed diablo yet | 23:31 |
| kulve | and the (OGG) part in the name is just text in the separate desktop file, nothing special there (except the mime types) | 23:32 |
| kulve | mgedmin: hmm.. how did you start it? | 23:32 |
| mgedmin | from the applications menu | 23:32 |
| kulve | hmm.. is there two version of the media player? The normal and the ogg version? | 23:32 |
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| mgedmin | how would I know? | 23:33 |
| kulve | by opening the menu ;) | 23:33 |
| mgedmin | I mean, the menu only has one | 23:33 |
| kulve | ok | 23:33 |
| kulve | so it should | 23:33 |
| mgedmin | good | 23:33 |
| kulve | but it shouldn't say the "ogg" there as that desktop file shouldn't show up in the menu and thus it should launch the "normal" desktop file which shouldn't say (OGG).. | 23:34 |
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| mgedmin | hmm | 23:34 |
| Tenkawa | greetings all | 23:34 |
| kulve | well, I need to debug it some day | 23:34 |
| mgedmin | the menu item says "Media player", it's just the infotip that adds OGG | 23:34 |
| Tenkawa | this error ring a bell trying to fire up scratchbox? | 23:34 |
| Tenkawa | nconsistency detected by ld.so: rtld.c: 1192: dl_main: Assertion `(void *) ph->p_vaddr == _rtld_local._dl_sysinfo_dso' failed! | 23:34 |
| mgedmin | Tenkawa: yes | 23:35 |
| Tenkawa | its not the vdso thing is it? | 23:35 |
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| mgedmin | sysctl -w vm.mmap_min_addr=4096 | 23:35 |
| mgedmin | and I forgot the vdso one | 23:35 |
| mgedmin | vm.vdso_support=0? | 23:35 |
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| Tenkawa | I thought that couldnt be higher than 4096 | 23:36 |
| Tenkawa | its set to 0 | 23:36 |
| mgedmin | ls /proc/sys/vm/*vdso* should tell you the name | 23:36 |
| Tenkawa | yeah I dont have that in proc at all for vdso | 23:36 |
| Tenkawa | let me try the minaddr one | 23:36 |
| mgedmin | the mmap one causes a different error, iirc | 23:36 |
| mgedmin | (not being able to run arm executables in scratchbox, with permission denied errors) | 23:37 |
| mgedmin | I'm on 64-bit linux here and see no vdso in my /proc/sys | 23:37 |
| mgedmin | I also don't have scratchbox on this machine | 23:37 |
| Tenkawa | mgedmin: HMM.. my kernel :is: 64 bit but my runtime is 32 | 23:38 |
| Tenkawa | let me reboot to my generic 686 32 bit kernel | 23:38 |
| Tenkawa | brb | 23:38 |
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| mgedmin | it's sysctl -w vm.mmap_min_addr=4096 vm.vdso_enabled=0 btw | 23:39 |
| zap | and you can put them in /etc/sysctl.conf | 23:40 |
| mgedmin | unless you have one of those machines that lock up with these settings | 23:40 |
| mgedmin | then it is a very very bad idea to put them in sysctl.conf without testing them first | 23:40 |
| jott | *yuk* diablo still has osso-software-version-#!$& | 23:42 |
| mgedmin | I gathered that's how they plan to implement upgrades | 23:42 |
| mgedmin | release a new osso-software-version-$model | 23:42 |
| mgedmin | pull everything else through dependencies | 23:43 |
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| Tenkawa | ouch.. superblock error made me fsck 300+ gig on reboot | 23:47 |
| Tenkawa | that took a bit | 23:47 |
| Tenkawa | but yeah the kernel was the problem | 23:47 |
| ||cw | ext sucks like that | 23:48 |
| Tenkawa | yep | 23:48 |
| wazd | Well, our teaw showed ordinary game, so I'm very happy for Spanish :) | 23:49 |
| Tenkawa | I'm just glad I hadnt allocated the other 3/4 of a tb I've got on that array yet | 23:49 |
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| t_s_o | hmm, do anyone with a clean diablo install on a n800 see cpu activity after the camera have been extended and reinserted? | 23:52 |
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| Tenkawa | t_s_o: didnt try out the camera yet this morning when I was testing diablo | 23:55 |
| Tenkawa | sorry I cant help | 23:55 |
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| t_s_o | bah, seems it could just as well be totaly unrelated... | 23:56 |
| t_s_o | just hildon-desktop acting up, even in diablo... | 23:56 |
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| Jaffa | Woohoo, libgee now in extras-devel - ported by MUD with just a two-line XML file | 23:58 |
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| Jaffa | https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/*checkout*/trunk/packages/libgee.xml?root=mud-builder&rev=231 | 23:58 |
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| t_s_o | hmm, top shows a whole lot of maemo-launcher with status sw< | 23:59 |
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