IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-06-24

GeneralAntillesatezun, only if you have an N810.00:00
kkrustyi kid00:00
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atezunah well, thanks though00:01
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atezunin that case anyone know where to email feedback to nokia then?00:02
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GeneralAntillesatezun, bugs.maemo.org00:08
GeneralAntillesbut the issue you're having is mostly solved by Diablo.00:08
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GeneralAntillesIt's too bad you can't ban people from the mailing list for "idiot".00:26
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lbtGeneralAntilles: ??00:28
GeneralAntillesSpeaking generally. :P00:28
GeneralAntillesAlthough Mr. Mark Haury is a front-runner at the moment.00:28
lbtnot Darius?00:29
GAN800He's more craazy than anything, and we can already ban him for html. :D00:29
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lcukermmm GeneralAntilles whats the repo list site from the topic?   (or to teach me to fish, how do i reshow the topic of this chan?)00:53
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GeneralAntillesDepends on your client.00:54
GeneralAntilles /topic will show the topic for some00:54
lcuktis ok :) i didnt drown, thanks it worked00:54
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m-cHas anyone connected the NIT to a linux desktop via Bluetooth for use as a removable media device?01:54
m-c*anyone here01:54
GeneralAntillesWhy not just use wifi?01:56
GeneralAntillesMuch faster.01:56
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m-cWell, I guess I am trying to get around the SSH requirements.01:58
m-cAlso, I like knowing that when the BT is disconnected, the files are inaccessble.01:58
GeneralAntillesWhat ssh requirements?01:58
m-cWith WiFi, the share is "open" so long as the device is connected to the I-net01:58
m-cI assumed you were meaning SFTP when you said wifi01:59
GeneralAntillesThat's one option, yes.01:59
GeneralAntillesBut there are only about a half a million others.01:59
m-cThat do not have an SSH requirement?02:00
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m-cWell, anyway, what were you meaning if not SFTP ?02:01
glass_theres smb port too i think02:01
glass_or nfs i guess02:01
m-cI guess NFS - would fit that specification.  Would nneed to set up an authentication service for it...02:02
m-cAnyway, about that bluetooth file share ... no one has that set up?  Windows or Linux?02:03
glass_if you setup networking through bt(which i think possible) then any protocol would do02:03
m-cI am having trouble setting up a persistent connection - although the NIT sends files to the desktop with no issues.02:03
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m-cI get a "Can't get device information: Success" error when I try to pair it.02:04
m-cThe bluetooth utilities on linux are not anything to write home about, either, I guess, so I figured I would ask in here.  ;)02:05
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ccookeAnyone use twitter on maemo? Any good client?02:07
* sinak gn02:08
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ccookeGeneralAntilles: just been trying it... doesn't seem to update, though02:17
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ccookeAnd I'm now not sure if that's a bug or a connection throttle :-)02:18
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MaximanderAnyone here have any experience with Bluetooth serial? If I understand correctly, I need to use `rfcomm bind` right?02:24
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sjgadsbyUsing RTCOMM for IRC seems to lead to frequent watchdog reboots.02:38
GAN800rtcomm sucks for IRC02:39
GAN800xchat is the way to go02:39
sjgadsbyI know. You've told me, but its so convenient.02:40
GAN800'convenient' :P02:40
sjgadsbyI'll stop being lazy and try xchat.02:40
sjgadsbyReboots are inconvenient, after all.02:41
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andre___file a bug report :)02:43
sjgadsbyI will.02:44
GeneralAntillesIt is the rtcomm beta, right?02:44
rm_youyeah that borked my tablet too02:45
GeneralAntillesI'd definitely recommend the Collabora Telepathy plugins to most people.02:46
* Maximander agrees02:48
andre___the more info is in the bug report, the better :)02:49
Maximanderwhere's the kernel .config on os2008?02:50
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Maximandertrying to figure out what's built in...02:50
GAN800'it's broke. fix it.'02:50
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sjgadsbyandre___: That's why I haven't submitted a bug report on it yet. I get frequent reboots, but I haven't found how to trigger one exactly.02:52
* Maximander wishes that making /proc/config.gz were enabled on ALL binary distributions02:52
andre___sjgadsby, a good way to reproduce is always appreciated, but sometimes it makes sense to file a report and wait for people with "more wisdom" to comment and help how to track down02:53
GeneralAntillesProbably these days more than it did a year ago.02:53
andre___definitely :-)02:53
andre___i currently try to collect knowledge to improve my questions to reporters, but it always takes some time :)02:53
andre___funny because i currently study the same issue for an exam (management of knowledge and its redundancy)02:54
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andre___hmm... - i think in some cultures this does not mean "OK" but something very rude ;-)02:57
GeneralAntillesAha, I hadn't thought of that.02:57
GeneralAntillesI was mostly just creeped out by it.02:57
sjgadsbyNow he likes it.02:57
andre___ah, in brazil according to
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andre___(warning: offending language in that link)02:58
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andre___time to sleep, classes in 7 hours... night03:00
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newmaemouserIs anyone else having problems downloading garnetvm from the website?  I've filled out the form but when I click on the link in the e-mail it just redirects me to the main page.03:28
rm_youyou *really* need to pick a name :P03:29
rm_youI *still* just see "mouser"03:29
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rm_youok, that works :P03:30
mouserThis will do for now :)03:31
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GeneralAntillessjgadsby, have you hit this yet?03:36
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mouserI'm looking for a download link for garnetvm.  I've filled in the form on their site but the I received in the e-mail redirects me to the main page.03:49
ds3use a desktop browser or w3m (text mode)03:53
ds3their system is broq for the N800 browser :/03:53
mouserI did, but had the same thing happen.03:54
ds3*shrug* w3m worked for me03:55
mouserI'll try w3m03:56
mouserWell, i don't have a linux box to try w3m, but I tryed it in lynx and had the same result.04:03
ds3you are allowing cookies right?04:06
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lcukttfn \o04:27
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skiburhey, I'm about to upload a video on youtube.  what is the best format to upload?04:38
skiburWhich is the best compression?04:38
Tobatheora hurhurhur04:39
DekaIt doesn't matter, Youtube will re-encode it to 3gp, mpeg-4 and h.264 formats04:39
GeneralAntillesUpload it as 720p h.26404:40
GeneralAntillesJust to use up their storage. :P04:40
skiburI have it at as mov right now.  its about 17 megs.  youtube say that it will take about 1-5 per meg04:42
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GeneralAntillesDon't bake with your tablet!05:07
* GeneralAntilles got flour all over his N800 while measuring and reading the recipe.05:08
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skibur63 MB compressed to avi turn out to be 22 MB.  Is there a better compression out there?06:11
tank-manuse a lower bitrate06:12
skiburfor the audio06:12
GeneralAntillesFor the video06:14
skiburo ok06:14
skiburusing ffmpeg06:14
skiburI got it06:14
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darkblue_Bsimple mplayer Q: can I adjust a running mplayer volume from ash?07:19
darkblue_B(I am assuming mplayer is the media player, and that ash is the ssh shell)07:20
darkblue_Bhmm no one home07:29
darkblue_Bok, how about install nmap on an N800?07:29
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rm_youdarkblue_B: well08:38
rm_youdarkblue_B: if you ran mplayer from ash, yes, volume is / and *08:38
rm_youattaching to it might not be possible though08:39
rm_youif you didnt run it from the console08:39
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GeneralAntillesrm_you, I never reboot my tablet, so I don't notice stuff like this, but did you see this comment?
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rm_youlol at "Not so good: The option to reduce backlight volume on n800's to zero what seems to be bad. there is only a hint not to do that. better would be a device detection routine in the software"08:50
GeneralAntillesCan't win, can we? :D08:50
rm_youapparently not08:50
rm_youonly a hint!?08:50
* GeneralAntilles slaps Uwe08:50
rm_youdo i need to put flashing lights on it!?08:51
rm_youit even asks for confirmation!08:51
rm_youYES/NO == rofl08:51
GeneralAntillesGood times with confirmation dialogs.08:52
rm_youGeneralAntilles: do gconf settings not persist across reboots? My understanding was that they are supposed to...08:52
rm_youotherwise gconf is stupid08:52
rm_youand pointless08:52
GeneralAntillesThey should08:52
GeneralAntillesIt could be a thousand and one things that get in the way there, though.08:52
GeneralAntillesHeck, maybe the initfs setting the backlight changes things08:53
GeneralAntilleswho knows08:53
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rm_youi have my own custom gconf area08:53
rm_youfor my app08:53
rm_youon load it pulls those settings08:53
GeneralAntillesAh, I see.08:53
rm_youand defaults to 60%-ish brightness if they fail to load08:53
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* GeneralAntilles reboots.08:54
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GeneralAntillesMine went from %25 to %10008:56
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jitu3485Hi, while building xulrunner as per specified in link i am getting this error10:03
jitu3485undefined reference to `hildon_g_scanner_cache_open'10:03
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jitu3485can someone help to resolve this10:03
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hrwgtk_widget_tap_and_hold_setup is another maemo-ism?10:34
inzhrw, at least it is defined inside #ifdef MAEMO_CHANGES10:35
hrwinz: not in hildon-application-manager ;(10:36
AStormin gtk10:40
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hrwAStorm: but apps needs #ifdef MAEMO_CHANGES too10:43
hrwhildon-desktop do that10:43
AStormthey do10:43
AStormas that define is done by pkg-config gtk10:43
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hrwyou mean by 'maemo gtk'10:46
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AStormgtk with maemo options enabled10:46
hrwlibhildon defines MAEMO_CHANGES10:46
hrwnot gtk10:46
AStormso it's in libhildon, that function? I fail at reading ;P10:46
hrwfunction is in gtk - but libhildon pkg-config adds -DMAEMO_CHANGES10:47
hrwI do not use maemo gtk10:47
inzThen you'll need to patch h-a-m10:49
hrwI did10:50
hrwlibhildon can be built against non-maemo gtk but pass -DMAEMO_CHANGES anyway10:50
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macoute_i know i can make new users to my nit, but can i change the default user?11:23
macoute_on irc a (~user@domain.tld) seems a pretty wierd11:23
inzIt's hardcoded in many places11:23
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inzInstall oidentd and make it say something fun ;)11:24
macoute_inz: ok. so i thought. how about ident11:24
macoute_ok :)11:24
inzYou may have to build it too ;)11:24
macoute_inz: that maybe an overkill, but hey, i like them :)11:24
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RST38hNokia just bought Symbian11:32
RST38hThe end of the world is definitely coming to Finland11:32
inzor from?11:32
X-FadeAnd it is going to opensource it:
RST38hGluttony is never good for corporations11:33
inzWell, they didn't buy it yet, they just made an offer.11:33
macoute_they might opensource it partly, i would say :)11:33
RST38hX-Fade: If it is going to "open source" it the same way it has done with Maemo, nothing is gonna change11:33
lbtRST38h: bollocks :)11:34
macoute_well 'nothing' is a pretty hard word11:34
RST38hSony Ericsson executives are probably shitting bricks by now11:34
macoute_but they surely arent going to opensource anything that would reveil their business secters11:34
AStormthe rest will have to go to M$11:34
AStormor write their own OSes11:35
AStormor licence Nokia11:35
AStormI suspect Nokia *will* make the licence so that the others have to pay11:35
lbtor use the free stuff Nokia have to give away11:35
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AStormlbt: no, sorry, the licence will forbid ;P11:35
lbtthen it won't be opensource will it?11:35
AStormI suspect it won't be GPL ;P11:35
AStormit will11:35
AStormjust not GPL11:35
AStormand not BSD11:35
X-FadeOr you could just read that website ;)11:36
lbtI repeat: then it won't be opensource will it?11:36
AStormno, it will11:36
macoute_why gpl'ing it would make it impossible to get a fee from it?11:36
AStormyou'll have the code11:36
lbtEclipse Public License11:36
macoute_iirc mysql is making profit with gpl'd software ;)11:36
AStormyou will be required to post all changes for example11:36
hrw maemo autobuilder == scratchbox?11:37
macoute_there could be some libraries (concerning hardware id suppose) that would be closed and they would require the license11:37
AStorm   The foundation is expected to start operating during the first half of 2009. Membership of the foundation will be open to11:37
AStorm   all organizations, for a low annual membership fee of US $1,500.11:37
AStormlow fee indeed11:37
X-Fadehrw: It uses scratchbox. But the builder itself is sbdmock.11:37
AStormmacoute_: mysql isn't gpl anymore11:38
hrwwhen I look at maemo extras sources I wanna scream11:38
AStormmysql-community is11:38
AStormand it's missing most of the query optimizer11:38
hrw# Autodetect platform11:38
hrwif $PKG_CONFIG --exists libosso && readlink /etc|grep -q ^/targets; then DETECTED_PLATFORM=maemo11:38
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hrwfor example11:38
AddisonGreetings all!11:38
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AddisonHey lard, how are ya?11:39
infobotAddison: eh, ok11:39
hrwhi lardman11:39
X-Fadehrw: That means that the developer needs to be explained how to make a proper package ;)11:39
lardmanhi hrw11:39
AddisonPop quiz.11:39
lardmanhi Addison11:39
AddisonAnyone smart enough to handle a big challenge needs to step up right now.  :)11:40
RST38hAStorm: I am pretty sure they will not "open source" in the normal sense of this word11:40
AStormit will I guess11:40
AStormfor non-profit purposes11:40
RST38hThere is too much know-how in Symbian11:40
AddisonI'm looking for anyone that can answer a post I made.11:40
AddisonI've asked everywhere on this, no one can seem to help me though.11:41
RST38hAddison: The answer is no11:41
AddisonI need someone with a big brain.11:41
RST38hThe answer is independent on the brain size.11:41
AddisonThat's a big fat "no" RST?11:42
lardmanAddison: Press the full screen button11:42
RST38hThat is a flat "no"11:42
AddisonNuts.  And I was in such a good mood.  :)11:42
RST38hBased on the way Hildon apps work.11:42
RST38hYou can probably compile regular xterm though11:42
AddisonCan putty or Qwerty's new Roxbox (sp?) be able to change the environment before using Telnet?11:43
lbtAddison: have you tried things like : COLUMNS=7611:43
AddisonGuys, is this really that big of a request?11:44
lardmanAddison: Stop talking, please11:44
lardmanAddison: People can read, if they don't answer it generally means they don't have an answer11:44
macoute_AStorm: the fee is kinda small if you think of the members (samsung electronics, ericsson etc)11:44
AddisonYes jbt, I've tried COLUMNS, columns, COLS, cols, and maybe a few other tries.  I even tried to export them just before going into Telnet.11:44
macoute_of course for individual developers its kinda huge11:45
lardmanDoes xterm override any env var settings then?11:45
AddisonSorry lard, I thought the reason for the dim flicker of a response was because someone was too ashamed on how ginormous their brain had become.  :)11:46
lbthave you tried #nethack ?11:46
AddisonSorry jbt, what do you mean?  I'm a real retarded gorilla when it comes to knowing linux, maemo, and other junk.11:47
RST38hAddison, you asked a question and got your answer11:47
RST38hHave you got another question? If so, ask.11:47
AddisonOh, do you mean have I stopped by there with my question?  Yeah, I chatted with #Nethack for about two hours today.  Didn't get any real help from them though.11:48
lardmanAddison: I'd tweak the source of xterm to do as you want11:48
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AddisonSorry RST, I'm not trying to stomp around, this is the only thing I'm hoping for today.11:49
AddisonHopefully this isn't creating any type of unnecessary weirdness here.11:49
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lardmanAddison: You might get more suggestions from a post to the mailing list, explain why you're doing this, explain what you've already tried, etc.11:50
lardmanAddison: then people can have a think about it with no time presure11:51
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AddisonWell, what about my wide font idea?  I've already tried it out and it works.  I just need to find that miracle font that is exactly 76x24 in the Xterminal while being in full screen mode.11:51
RST38hAddison <-- is trying to microwave an egg, if you know what I mean11:51
lardmanI don't know, assuming no-one else has answered, they presumably don't know (or are busy), the ml will get you slower but greater exposure11:52
AddisonI've tried to microwave one once.  It blew the fricking door off.  :D11:52
AddisonWhat's an ml, lardman?11:53
RST38hAddison: have you tried doing it again though?11:53
lardmanAddison: mailing list11:53
RST38hJust in case the next time it will not blow the door off11:53
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AddisonYou mean microwaving an egg?  No way, first time was horror enough.  :)11:53
RST38hAddison: Anyway, look at the stty utility11:53
RST38hIt allows you to set rows/columns for a terminal, given that your terminal is large enough to fit 'em11:54
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lbttelnet does the window size negotiation - hack that11:54
AddisonCan you give me a download on that RST?11:54
RST38hAddison: No.11:54
AddisonWell, can Putty do this?  I mean, be able to change the COLUMNS size?11:55
hrwAddison: it can11:55
AddisonSweet!  Thanks hrw!  I'm going to go pick that up right now.11:55
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AddisonI've got it.11:56
wizaanyone knows how is a2dp support w/ sbc coming along?11:56
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AddisonGive me a few minutes to see if it works this way.11:56
X-Fadewiza: Ask lardman ;)11:57
timelessi guess opensymbian is fallout from android11:58
RST38hyes, lardman, how is it coming along? =)11:58
X-Fadetimeless: Preemptive strike perhaps?11:58
RST38htimeless: Funny, just yesterday WSJ had a gloomy article about Android being a clusterfuck11:58
macoute_j webdev11:59
macoute_heh :)11:59
timelessx-fade: not very preemptive...11:59
timelessthere's a 2 year lead before they're open11:59
timelesswhich is iirc about as long as it took sun to open java11:59
X-Fadetimeless: Well glacial preemptive ;)11:59
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RST38hX-Fade: I find it more likely that Nokia felt slowed down by Symbian guys so it decided to just buy the whole thing12:00
macoute_timeless: you knew something about firefox, so ill ask you too. would you know of a service (browser plugin/software/web site) which would check which extensions (java/flash/js/activex/etc) a website needs?12:00
* aquatix welcomes opensymbian12:00
timelessaquatix: new overlords?12:00
AddisonOkay hrw.  Do I choose "PuTTY Terminal Emulator" or "PuTTY SSH Client"?12:00
aquatixnot necessary12:00
aquatixbut it makes me a tad happy12:00
wizaX-Fade: ok :)12:00
timelessmacoute: oddly, no12:00
aquatixmore willing to hack :)12:00
timelessi've been meaning to try to coordinate w/ some group to make a database that lists stuff like that12:01
macoute_timeless: damn. our companys website, made by an ad company doesnt work on all comps and i cant figure out why..12:01
RST38hX-Fade: Given that Symbian is a bunch of ticks fattened on license fees, it is very likely12:01
timelessmacoute: url?12:01
macoute_timeless: (flash is one, thats for sure ;))12:01
Addisonhrw?  Don't leave me hanging!  :)12:02
* timeless sighs and goes to enable plugins12:02
macoute_on some comps it just keeps on loading the website with our logo12:02
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timelessdoes it speak english anywhere?12:02
hrwAddison: ? I always download putty.exe12:03
macoute_timeless: not yet :(12:03
timelessbtw, tell them not to show < > arrows in small views if they aren't clickable12:03
timeless(there's  black box w/ orange text that cycles around, and it ignores clicks on the arrows until you click the black box)12:03
macoute_timeless: ah, thats true12:03
macoute_im not so happy with the new website :S12:04
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aquatixhrw: or putty tray, even nicer12:04
timelessi bet it was made by finns ;-)12:04
hrwaquatix: if I download putty it means that I will use that box for short time and with putty + firefox only12:04
timelessfind your sales team, give them an e61i and an n810 (w/ flash disabled for both) w/ the web site loaded12:04
macoute_timeless: yeah :)12:04
timelesstell them this is how the world sees their site12:04
lardmanwiza et al. re sbc, it runs but too slowly12:05
aquatixhrw: true12:05
* aquatix is forced to use windows at work, so is using firefox and a maximised putty tray12:05
inzmacoute, or find the sales team, a sauna and a 9mm12:05
timelesshrm, not to be sexist, but what's a black guy doing in a finnish video?12:05
lardmanwhen I have a few spare minutes I'll sit down and try re-writing the inner fn to be DSP-optimisable12:05
macoute_inz: that would be the best move12:05
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* timeless thought everyone in finnland was female :)12:05
aquatixtimeless: lol12:06
macoute_timeless: dont know :) maybe some quota-black male? :)12:06
macoute_timeless: hes some kind of a celebrity here (i think)12:06
hrw does not have 'putty tray' or I do not see it12:06
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wizalardman: well I'm currently running a2dp and it eats battery way too fast =)12:06
macoute_hrw: its a third party addon, i believe12:06
macoute_try foofle12:06
timelessmacoute: btw, be sure to silence the audio on your devices12:06
timelessexplain to them that captioning is really appreciated12:07
aquatixhrw: it's a set of patches i think12:07
timelessalthough, i'd prefer something where i could copy the text and paste it into a translator12:07
timelessbecause i still wouldn't have a clue what they're saying :)12:07
macoute_timeless: we are actually getting at least swedish/english subtitles12:07
macoute_and as we are selling mainly b2b, id say a website with sound is a no-no12:08
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lardmanwiza: The current decoder speed is as follows: 29s au file, ARM-only =~3s; DSP-decoding =~20s12:08
timelessmy laptop is muted, so i have on idea what the site is actually doing12:08
macoute_i dont prefer enabling my sounds to everyone in our office when watching :)12:08
timelessthe sad thing is that this site really really doesn't need flash12:09
lardmanwiza: So needs some tweaking; I'm also a bit concerned that the disparity is so large - worried I've mis-timed it or something (bit hard just timing the data transfers without the encoding as the code gets stuck in a loop)12:09
timelessweb1.0 would have worked12:09
macoute_timeless: thats so true12:09
macoute_but hey, isnt flash sexy? :S12:09
* aquatix doesn't even have flash here12:09
* timeless wants to castrate all the finnish "web" designers12:09
macoute_ask some AD and he will praise Flash on his mac os12:09
aquatixrefuses to install in my custom firefox dir12:09
aquatixtimeless: :)12:09
aquatixflash is overrated12:10
wizalardman: ok :) is it supposed to work so that dsp decodes mp3 etc and then arm encodes the data that will be sent to headset?12:10
* timeless turns off plugins12:10
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lardmanwiza: unfortunately not until I (or someone else) writes an mp3 decoder that doens't include a sink12:11
konttoriHello all!12:11
lardmanwiza: atm libmad on ARM needs to be used to do the mp3 decode; with OpenMAX (which is the way Nokia are going, in the future), this shouldn't be a problem12:12
wizalardman: so will dsp be used to encode data to a2dp or how is the path going from mp3 file to headset? :D12:13
lardmanwiza: mp3 file -> libmad (ARM) -> PCM -> sbc encoder (DSP) -> output (ARM)12:14
wizalardman: ok12:15
hrwlardman: I wonder how good would be floating point mpeg audio decoder on armv6-vfp12:15
lardmanhrw: ssvb has been optimising ffmpeg to do vorbis (better than Tremor)12:15
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hrw~curse maemo for keeping binaries in /usr/share/12:15
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, maemo for keeping binaries in /usr/share/ !12:15
AddisonOkay hrw.  I've got Putty installed.  What do I choose for the "adjust window border, Gap between text and window edge"?12:16
hrwlardman: nice12:16
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hrwAddison: last time I used putty few months ago - all my boxes are linux12:16
lardmanhrw: So probably pretty good if the code is optimised for fp, rather than a reference encoder (like libvorbis, which is what we base our opinions of fixed vs fp on)12:16
RST38hlardman: Don't you suspect that 20s DSP decoding time may be result of DSP somehow throttling itself?12:17
aquatixAddison: whuh, you're using putty on your tablet?12:17
RST38hlardman: After all, it probably knows that it has to deliver 29sec of audio12:17
AddisonWell, is the gap in pixels or in character length?  I'm a real dip turd trying to figure this one out.12:17
* aquatix just uses ssh from the maemo terminal12:17
lardmanAddison: it will probably be in characters12:18
lcukAddison, just test it12:18
hrwAddison: I configured putty years ago12:18
lardmanAddison: In the connection dialog go to Window, then set the Columns & Rows?12:19
rm_youlardman: a2dp DSP still not working fast enough?12:20
lardmanRST38h: I was wondering, but when I did a quick test of DSP transfer speed (minus decoding) that took ~3.5s12:20
RST38hlardman: but this does nto indicate it is not throttling12:20
lardmanRST38h: but it's hard to time, as without doing the decoding, the code never finishes, and it just hangs at the end before it's killed12:20
lcuklardman, the dsp speed is coupled with the arm cpufreq isnt it -> if you are running on "ondemand" then is it possible the dsp is clocking back down (like i found with the cpu)12:21
RST38hlardman: the thing is, it does not have to be fast, just has to be fast ENOUGH12:21
lardmanlcuk: I don't think the DSP does variable clock speed, anyone from Nokia know for sure?12:21
lardmanRST38h: yes indeed, it's not atm :)12:21
RST38hlardman: Have you checked the battery life with dsp stuff continuously running? =)12:21
lcuki thought they were all in some sort of little dance together12:21
lcukmight be worth switching between powersave/ondemand/performance to at least see..12:22
RST38hWell, judging from my previous experience with ARM-derived chips, there should be several frequency controls in the OMAP chip12:22
rm_youlardman: I will do lots of testing, is there an easy-ish way to get your stuff installed?12:22
RST38hProbably one to control the master clock and separate controls for the ARM core, DSP, SDRAM bus, flash/io bus, etc12:22
lardmanRST38h: no, I've not checked the battery life12:23
lardmanRST38h: I'd be interested to know though12:23
lardmanrm_you: Let me know what you want to test and I'll give you the code12:23
RST38hI mean, speed is less important than battery life12:23
lardmanRST38h: going back to throttling, not my code is not throttling, it's passing the data through as fast as possible; something else might be (in the DSP kernel), but I can't see why12:24
AddisonSo this is what I'm looking at.  I can't seem to view anything.  How can I confirm this is the setting for the windows option thingie?12:24
rm_youlardman: the code is available on garage, isn't it?12:24
lardmanRST38h: yes and no, for some people, being able to reduce ARM load will be worthwhile too12:24
lardmanrm_you: yes, but not the latest DSP binary12:24
rm_youI just have no idea how to install DSP code, and especially no idea how to get it to interface with any of the bluez stuff12:24
lcuklardman, if you wanna try do variations on echo ondemand >/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor12:24
lardmanrm_you: and in fact I probably need to push my latest changes too12:25
lardmanlcuk: I will do that, atm it's ondemand12:25
lardmanrm_you: I can tell you12:25
lardmanCan we move this to the ml, I've got a meeting to go to now12:25
lcuk:) wondered if you ever did any work :P12:25
lardmanor a seperate channel, so I don't lose the history12:26
lardmanlcuk: :p12:26
lardmanor just remember and I'll chat to you all later on12:26
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rm_you#sbc-enc ?12:26
lcukhes gone, lardman must be typing whilst actually running out of the office12:27
lcukhe actually does a vault over his desk pressing enter as he goes12:27
rm_youwell, I guess I'll go back to battling this stupid bug more12:27
lcukhis door has a microswitch which activates the _afk nick12:27
AddisonOkay.  I'm stuck on this menu.  I can't click on "Open" since it doesn't do anything.  Looking for a suggestion on what to do next.12:28
rm_youwhy are you using putty again? :P12:28
lcukaddison, ive never tried putty in maemo, would it be an idea to get it on your big system and confirm all the values match?12:29
AddisonSorry, it's a long, boring, and winded post of gibberish.  It's hard for me to ask what I'm asking for.  If that makes any sense.  :)12:30
AddisonI need to go for a quick beer run.  Be back in about 5 minutes.12:31
aquatixAddison: why aren't you just using openssh?12:35
aquatixseems a lot easier and more native than putty12:35
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AddisonI don't even know what openssh is?  Is that kind of like Telnet?12:37
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rm_youSecure SHell12:37
macoute_Secure aS Hell ? :)12:38
rm_youyou can just open the X Terminal12:38
AddisonAll I'm looking for is to Telnet and have the screen not place text underneath the Xkbd keyboard that's on the screen.  Hopefully that makes sense to someone here.12:38
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rm_youand type "ssh"12:38
rm_youyeah i saw that... looking.12:38
rm_youtrying to figure out how you can fool SSH into thinking it is a different size12:39
rm_youit is actually a function of the remote shell, probably12:39
AddisonThat's it in a nutshell.12:39
AddisonHow hard can this be?  I feel like a retarded gorilla on this.12:40
Mikhowould somebody know which package contains the ui-window_open.wav file?12:40
Mikhofor some reason that file is present only in my ARMEL target12:41
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* lcuk gives Addison a banana ;)12:41
trickie|workwow, go nokia... an open symbian?12:41
AddisonWhy not another beer lcuk?   I could use one right about now.  :)12:42
AddisonOh, wait.  I do have one.  Be back in about a minute guys.12:42
rm_youMikho: ^^12:42
lcuksounds like a plan for you addison, but a bit early in the day for me12:42
rm_youall we have in the fridge here is piss beer >_<12:43
AddisonIt's 5:42 in the am for me here.  Nothing but to do but to abuse my drinking privileges.  :)12:43
rm_youbunch of miller lite12:43
rm_youand coors >_>12:43
rm_youI want a good pint of Guinness12:43
crashanddieoh djeezus shut up12:44
AddisonBy the way, did I already mention that I'm hazing in and out of consciousness right now?  I really could use a quick answer before I pass out in a tepid pool of my own filth.  :)12:44
rm_youMikho: you get that?12:44
AddisonAnyone got a link for this Openssh thingie?12:45
lcukaddison, your request for a specific font would be difficult, 10pixel wide is 760pixel, 11 is 836 - its not possible to get an exact fit (at least not at fullscreen12:45
rm_youAddison: it's already on the tablet12:45
Mikhohmm, already the newest version12:45
rm_youjust open X Terminal and type "ssh"12:45
AddisonOkay rm.  Doing that right now.  Pretty soon though, I'll be typing with my feet.   Just a heads up.  :)12:46
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aquatixAddison: you're using... telnet?!12:47
aquatixok, just do what rm_you says ;)12:47
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AddisonOkay, I give up.  I typed "ssh" but it didn't do squadoosh.  I just got the next line without a "$" symbol.12:48
rm_youwell, not EXACTLY... unless you just happened to be the fourth IP on the 1.2.3 subnet :P12:48
rm_youbeat me by a few seconds12:48
AddisonI don't have ssh.  Well, at least I don't think so.12:49
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AddisonWho's drinking around here.  Anyone want to play a game to get us both wasted?  :)12:50
lcukaddison,  some sort of shell script or do you need binary?12:51
AddisonHey lcuk, I've basically have a fresh OS 2008 clean flash.  I'm not sure what you're asking.12:52
lcukdrink more, it will become clear12:52
AddisonI am.  It's not working.  :(12:52
lcukanyway, back later wrok calling12:52
AddisonOkay lcuk.  Hope you can earn your money.  :)12:52
kuriiri_drink more, your eyes are moving!12:53
AddisonWhat does it mean when you're hazing in and out of consciousness?  Does that mean I'm not drinking fast enough?12:53
Mikhorm_you, reinstalling osso-sounds-ui did not fix the problem12:53
rm_youMikho: :( well, that's the package it belongs to12:54
Mikhomaybe I'll just copy the file12:54
rm_yougood idea12:54
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rm_youNokia-N800-51-3:~# dpkg -S /usr/share/sounds/ui-window_open.wav12:54
rm_youosso-sounds-ui: /usr/share/sounds/ui-window_open.wav12:54
AddisonHey, can someone give me the link to Openssh?12:55
Mikhooh, it was present only in my *gregale* ARMEL target12:55
RST38hThe UK's streets are today a safer place for kiddies and decorated war veterans after public and police hostility forced a Gloucestershire bus-spotter to give up his lifelong hobby of snapping interesting examples of road-based public transport,12:55
aquatixAddison: you might want to install openssh in the application manager12:55
AddisonOkay aquatix.  Thank you.12:55
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aquatixjust search on ;)12:56
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AddisonOh crap.  There's not a .deb file?12:57
aquatixjust click the darn Install link :P12:58
aquatixthat will install the .deb12:58
lcuki gotta get me one of these:
AddisonI'm on a computer right now.  I need to email myself the link if that makes any sense.12:58
aquatixAddison: that's a possibility12:59
aquatixif you want the .deb, save the file behind that Install lini12:59
aquatixopen it [text file] and look at the url in there12:59
aquatixhm, not the easiest way ;/13:00
aquatix* :/13:00
aquatixjust mail yourself the link and ignore me ;)13:00
AddisonOkay aquatix.  You're officially ignored.  See you in the next life.  :)13:00
aquatixlcuk: that's kinda awesome13:01
aquatixAddison: :P13:01
AddisonOkay.  I just hit the link.  Should I open or save the install thingie?13:02
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AddisonAll right.  I'm looking at "Update application?"  "openssh-client1:$:&p1-12.maemo113:05
AddisonAm I doing good so far?13:05
aquatixi guess you hit the link while browsing with your tablet?13:07
AddisonWell, I've got "openssh-client successfully updated", but guess what?  I give up.  What did that exactly do for me?13:07
rm_youerr i guess thats right13:07
aquatixyeah, you're done now13:07
aquatixjust open a Terminal on your tablet13:07
aquatixand try that `ssh <ip address or hostname>' again13:07
aquatixyou might want to do `ssh youruser@hostname'13:08
aquatixas the default user of the tablet is `user', which it tries to log in with then13:08
* aquatix wonders whether he is still making sense13:08
macoute_the flash on maemo is 9, right?13:08
AddisonAm I typing this? "ssh"13:09
aquatixAddison: where is the ip address of the machine you want to connect to13:09
aquatixit might also be "ssh"13:09
AddisonDamn I'm about dumb.  :(13:09
macoute_and if on linux, you propably want to add user before the address as stated (user@
aquatixyeah, what i said ;)13:10
* aquatix wanders off for some lunch13:10
macoute_yeah, what you said :)13:11
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AddisonOkay, I'm looking at this right now.13:13
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AddisonAll I want is a Terminal with 76x24 character width.  Please someone tell me how easy this should be.  :)13:14
AddisonSorry, I need to pee and throw up right now.  I'll be back in 4 minutes.  :)13:15
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lbtlogin to an xterm, type: stty cols 76; telnet ....13:18
AddisonOkay lbt, I'll try that right now.13:20
robstahow can i make canola2 (or the built in audio player) find the music i load via USB?13:21
timelessso, has anyone noticed anything strange on * or *nokia* w/in the past half hour?13:22
rm_youtimeless: not here <_<13:22
rm_youjust been on wiki and garage13:22
luognitimeless: diablo has been released? :) (downloading it..)13:23
timelessluogni: yeah, so um. where did you find that?!13:23
luognitimeless: maemo ml and itt :)13:23
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rm_youah yeah13:23
rm_youtop article on ITT13:24
X-FadeDiablo was uploaded around 12 Helsinki time ;)13:24
rm_youyeah quim says they're about to announce?13:24
_berto_diablo released ?13:24
*** timeless changes topic to "Diablo Released | | | | | | // | |"13:24
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timelesshrm, that didn't work13:24
*** timeless changes topic to "Diablo Released | | | | | | | |"13:25
rm_youtime to reflash13:25
_berto_where's the download page ?13:25
timelessum, you shouldn't need to13:25
timelessberto: very good question, i can't find it from maemo.org13:25
X-FadeFor N810.13:25
rm_youtimeless: oh?13:25
rm_youyeah i cant find it either :P13:25
timelessx-fade: would someone please fix the web site?13:25
timelessi shouldn't have to read some lame mailing list or forums to get news like this13:25
X-Fadetimeless: The announcement will be posted sone.13:26
timelessthis is not how you do business13:26
X-Fadetimeless: Separate teams ;)13:26
timelessyou're supposed to block until that other team is ready13:26
konttorihey, great. Finally out then, eh? Cool.13:26
timelessthey had a month to get this item ready13:26
timelessanyway, i'm going to lunch, and then i'll go back to the browser release notes13:26
timelesswhich will be a few weeks late13:27
timelessi was expecting diablo wouldn't ship this quarter13:27
X-Fadetimeless: Go tell that to your boss ;)13:27
timelessmy boss?13:27
rm_youlol yeah didnt expect diablo for like... 3+ months13:27
macoute_me neither13:27
X-Fadetimeless: It certainly doesn't help to do that here..13:27
hrwRX-44_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin 129103249 bytes13:27
rm_youah theres the announce on maemo13:28
luogniis there a flasher for linux ppc ?13:28
lbtrm_you: where?13:28
rm_youbleh lots of reinstalling to do13:29
macoute_and where is my usb-cable when i need it? :)13:29
rm_yougonna set up root on SD finally13:29
hrw is populated too13:29
rm_youlbt: top link13:29
lbtah, not on front page yet...13:29
rm_youwow and NOW is all slow13:29
rm_youlbt: was for me13:30
rm_youwell, the link was13:30
rm_you:P under announcements13:30
lbtindeed - the front page has the logo as the top summary link13:30
timelesshrm, i should start indexing i guess13:31
timelessare the sources in the repo?13:31
hrwtimeless: they are13:31
rm_youare the sources for the display applet in the repo? :P13:31
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hrwlibgps* and liblocation still closed13:32
AddisonThat didn't work lbt.  I actually got a 97x29 window.  That's a first time getting a number like that.13:34
* timeless grins13:34
timelessi'm still not done compressing version 4.0, but i have 53gb of free space already13:34
AddisonWell, I think it's about time I rested my gentle head right about now.13:35
AddisonI need some serious explaining to do with my wife tomorrow at the crack of 4 pm on why I slept in so late.13:36
AddisonI'll come back again.  Thanks to everyone on their attempt to help me out.13:36
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RST38hDIABLO IS OUT?!?!?!?13:42
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rm_youyep :P13:42
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rm_youanyone have a link to a decent root-on-sd tutorial?13:42
t_s_olooks like it, just spotted the thread over on itt ;)13:42
* RST38h is seriously considering quitting work for today and catching a car home13:42
rm_youI want to put diablo on my SD13:42
X-FadeRST38h: Sure, for little under 2 hours now.13:43
* RST38h is dripping saliva all over the channel13:43
wizais there any documentation like "what's new"13:43
macoute_im lookin for release notes too13:43
RST38his there a change list?13:43
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wizaand where is it? =)13:44
rm_yourelease notes would be nice13:44
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andre___release? whou.13:45
rm_youGeneralAntilles: where are you>_<13:45
rm_youjohnx: you too13:45
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macoute_someone else was correcting wikipedia at the same time than me :)13:46
t_s_otime to do one last backup then and dust of the flasher bin13:46
RST38hrm_you: he is reflashing! =)13:47
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rm_youso, any good tutorials for Root on SD?13:47
rm_youthere isnt one on the new wiki, and the one on the old wiki is VERY outdated13:48
rm_youand confusing >_>13:48
macoute_internettablettalk contains three tutorials iirc13:48
macoute_none of them are hard13:48
rm_yougoogle brings up nothing useful, for once >_>13:49
macoute_google: simplified howto sd clone maemo13:49
rm_youyeah i found it on itt13:50
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rm_youah so i dont install it to SD13:50
rm_youi need to flash first13:50
rm_youthen I can clone13:50
lcuk what a great article :)13:51
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macoute_damn intel ad there13:52
macoute_"Worried about server downtime?" i pressed "NO" intel ad: "sure about that? - solution new server blaablaa" :)13:53
rm_youlcuk: getting into the Open Source mood? :P13:53
lcukive been trying to for a while  :P13:54
RST38h"existential self-questioning" is a good one13:54
* lcuk knows priorities will change as soon as released13:54
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rm_youlcuk: did you read The Cathedral and the Bazaar yet? :P13:58
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lcukyes rm i did, and im the bishop14:00
lcukincidentally, diablo has been released14:01
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rm_youlcuk: yes :P14:01
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rm_youwe've all been sitting here reflashing :)14:02
lcuk:P good14:03
lcukwill it attempt to reinstall all apps from my list after restoring14:03
* RST38h is not, he is at work running tests =(14:03
lcuk(ive not flashed)14:03
lcuk(ever with actual work stuff on device)14:04
rm_youhrm i guess this means I need to throw the newest advanced-backlight onto extras for diablo14:06
rm_youlcuk: erm... i still dont trust restore14:06
rm_youand no, at most it will restore your catalogs14:06
rm_youi'm writing down all the stuff in my menus and everything i can remember that isnt14:07
X-Faderm_you: lol ;) It worked for me. I just reloaded my apps from the chinook repo btw.14:07
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rm_youheh yeah but14:08
rm_youyeah i guess14:08
rm_you./flasher-3.0 -F RX-34_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin14:10
rm_youis that right?14:10
X-Faderm_you: add -f -R14:10
X-Fadeto actually flash and reboot when done.14:10
rm_youalways used windoze flasher, sadly >_>14:11
rm_youoh, ADD -f -R14:11
rm_younot replace -F with them14:12
X-Fadeno ;)14:12
rm_youwow, is it just me or is the linux flasher way faster? >_>14:13
rm_youwhat is your NIT's name? :P14:14
robstais there any way to access the files loaded onto the n810 via usb?14:14
robstacan't find them in the audio player14:14
RST38hIs change list known?14:14
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macoute_rm_you: its a lot faster14:19
macoute_it actually flashes, i think windows somehow copies it14:19
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rm_youalso, for the record my n800's name is Nezumi ^_^14:20
macoute_it seems that maemo is not high on nokias priorities14:20
macoute_theres nothing on yet14:20
Anunakinany here tried android on n8x0 ?14:20
rm_youthis release was very badly publicized IMO14:21
rm_youAnunakin: wait for johnx to get back14:21
rm_youhe did i think14:21
Anunakinmy N810 name is Nakoruru14:21
Anunakinmy cell is Nariko14:21
RST38hLots of otaku here...14:21
hrwI did not invent names for devices14:22
rm_youDesktop: Yuzuki, Server: Haruka. NIT: Nezumi, Cell Phone: Kotone, TV: Mizuno14:22
t_s_oim boring and just use defaults...14:22
RST38hPhone: comlog. NIT: padlog.14:23
RST38hLaptop: tesseract. And the media server is nameless, as it runs Windows anyway14:23
rm_youoh yeah, Laptop: Takara14:23
macoute_i surely need a naming convention for my devices14:24
hrwdesktop: home, laptop: maluch, tablets, pdas lack names14:24
macoute_i tried nmapping for ssh-servers on my lan as i didnt remember the ip of one of them one day14:24
rm_youI like my naming convention :)14:24
Anunakinrm_you: nice names!14:24
hrwmy other desktop is also 'home'14:24
macoute_i found 12 ssh-servers runnin on my lan :)14:24
RaytrayDesktop: Raytray, tablet: Ray800, phone: RayU47014:24
macoute_(and i have a wii, an xbox and 2 windows-laptops without ssh) :)14:24
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rm_youI have 5 devices on my network with SSH currently >_>14:25
macoute_most of them were some embedded devices though (wlan ap, a router, etc)14:25
rm_youoh, 4... I just reflashed my n800, and ssh is failing to install properly14:25
macoute_on diablo?14:25
crashanddierm_you, heh... I have a server with 4 ssh servers on it :P14:25
rm_youyeah but same problem i had on chinook14:25
rm_youcrashanddie: lol?! :P14:26
macoute_whats the use of four ssh-servers on one server?14:26
X-FadeI have just installed openssh from chinook on diablo, no problem.14:26
crashanddierm_you, virtualization14:26
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macoute_crashanddie: blah, thats 4 servers then and all containing 1 ssh-server :)14:26
rm_youX-Fade: i've never gotten the .install for openssh client and server to work14:26
rm_youit always fails14:27
crashanddiemacoute_, well, one power plug, one server :P14:27
X-FadeI used application manager.14:27
macoute_crashanddie: well, four os's, four servers :P14:27
RST38hX-Fade: usually does not work for ssh14:27
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X-FadeRST38h: Did for me 5 minutes ago :)14:28
macoute_i wrote to nokias head for products and services communications about change log and press release14:28
RST38hmaybe they got it fixed14:28
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X-FadeJust added chinook extras to the repository list.14:28
rm_youX-Fade: ?14:29
AnunakinI just compiled and running ... REminiscence (a Flashback engine for Linux) on my N81014:29
X-Faderm_you: Most applications work on both chinook and diablo.14:30
glass_flashback? the game?14:30
Anunakinremapped some keys.. and this working nice...14:30
Anunakinthe game14:30
rm_youX-Fade: right but how? I never used the application manager. EVER.14:30
X-FadeIf you made a backup it would prompt you for it ;)14:30
rm_youi didnt14:31
AnunakinI working at "Another World" game too... but this need a cracked version of this old game14:31
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wizaumm, which software should I use to flash14:44
wizaI have mac os x on intel...14:44
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johnxwiza, flasher-2.014:45
wizathe PPC version?14:46
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rm_youjohnx: Diablo :P14:47
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johnxrm_you, what?14:47
rm_youX-Fade: enabled a bazillion repos and enabled red-pill, still cant find openssh. will just do it via apt-get14:47
johnxwiza, yes, I think so14:47
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rm_youjohnx: diablo :P14:48
rm_youofficial release was a few hours ago14:48
rm_youjust flashed14:48
rm_youabout to set up root on sd14:48
X-Faderm_you: It is just called openssh, and it is in extras ;)14:48
rm_youX-Fade: have extras, looked, searched, nothing14:49
X-Faderm_you: It really is there.14:50
rm_youyes it is in chinook, just changed it in my sources.list14:50
rm_youapp manager doesnt let me select distro name anywhere :/14:50
X-Faderm_you: Did you fill in chinook in the distribution field?14:50
X-FadeThat is what I did.14:51
rm_youerr i was scanning for a "diablo" to replace14:52
rm_youit was just blank, i guess blank means diablo14:52
jitu3485Hi , I am unable to scp any files on my N810 memory status is at
rm_youwhat is "OS2008 Feature Upgrade" and ... "(Unlocked)14:53
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RST38hMeanwhile: In the wake of today's news of the Symbian Foundation being set up, UI company UIQ have announced plans to layoff of 200 employees14:54
RST38h(out of 375 total)14:54
lcukjitu3485, there is an issue where the 810 2GB internal card is released with incorrect parameters, from the looks of your pastebin you have nearly filled your mmc2,  its possible you could have run into this corruption problem?14:55
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glass_what have they been doing for the past 2 years? (the uiq guys...)14:56
lcukactually forget that i need glasses14:56
* lcuk puts glass_ on14:56
* Jaffa catches up with the "diablo released" thing. Presumably N810W release not synchronized?14:56
lcukjaffa, most reasonable scenario is slower than expected rollout by worldwide isps for wimax?14:57
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jitu3485lcuk, thanks for information14:57
lcukjitu3485, don't thank me, it was wrong14:57
lcukyour mmc2 is practically empty14:58
jitu3485lcuk, ten what may be the problem any idea?14:59
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rm_youThe following packages have unmet dependencies:14:59
rm_you  osso-software-version-rx34: Depends: flash-and-reboot (= 3) but it is not going to be installed14:59
rm_you                              Depends: initfs-flasher (= 0.95.16-200823maemo2) but it is not going to be installed14:59
rm_you                              Depends: kernel-diablo-flasher (= 2.6.21-200823maemo3) but it is not going to be installed14:59
rm_youapt-get -f install just makes them install14:59
Jaffalcuk: agreed, which is why I was hoping for a seperate release. Oh, and the 2Q date has been met too :-)15:00
macoute_rm_you: you flashed, right?15:01
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rm_youwow, this root on SD tutorial is OLD15:04
rm_youit always makes me uneasy following guides that tell me "and now if you want you can upgrade to Sardine" >_<15:04
lcukwhy, it was perfectly valid until it was killed yesterday :P15:05
ranittell me jitu348515:05
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jitu3485ranit, what?15:07
ranitjitu3485: / is full, it shouldn't be like that15:07
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rm_youthe only thing that confuses me is why they ALWAYS have at least two partitions on the SD card, one vfat and one ext215:07
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rm_youthe OS goes on the ext2, wtf do i want a random fat partition for?15:07
rm_youcan't i just have the entire card for the OS?15:07
johnxrm_you, I remember there being some reason...but it didn't seem like a good enough reason to bother15:08
rm_youi'll give it a 1kb partition15:08
rm_youto keep it happy15:08
* johnx will buy some SD cards soon...15:08
rm_youjohnx: I have an extra 4g...15:09
johnxgreat...send it to me :P15:09
johnxtape it to a postcard15:09
rm_youI need to send you that shirt still15:09
rm_youi was just gonna send it and have you be like... "oh!" :P15:09
rm_youbut i dont remember your address15:09
schillingi have some problems adding a start menu item on my n770. i already put the .desktop file into my /usr/share/applications/hildon and i can see it in under "extras" in my start menu, but when i click on it nothing happens15:10
schillingi wrote the file myself15:10
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schillingthe file looks like this:
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JaffaGah! Just realised I haven't got my Nokia's USB cable here today15:12
rm_youbah wtf, can't unmount my mmc to repartition15:12
rm_youJaffa: nooo!!!15:12
rm_youJaffa: just poke someone for a camera cable... it's just usb15:12
rm_youor you have n810? >_>15:12
schillingi am trying to start an application which is trying to connect to a server. the application starts, establishes a connection but fails to open the gui...15:13
crashanddierm_you, you should be able to unmount it no problem15:13
crashanddierm_you, make sure you don't any app using it/console with the pwd on MMC15:13
schillingthere are no problems starting it directly from the command line15:13
schillingvia ssh15:13
crashanddieschilling, do you use ?15:13
Jaffarm_you: N81015:13
* Jaffa can carefully ensure he backs up everything he wants15:14
rm_youJaffa: :(15:14
schillingcrashanddie, i didn't know this. until now i just started it via the command line using a ssh connection15:15
crashanddieschilling, run-standalone is a wrapper script15:15
crashanddieyou might want to use it in order to define correct behavior15:15
schillingi am going to try this one, thanks... bbl15:16
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lbthmm - on linux lsusb says:15:19
lbtBus 001 Device 004: ID 0421:04c3 Nokia Mobile Phones N800 Internet Tablet15:19
lbtbut flasher-3.0 says15:19
lbtSuitable USB device not found, waiting15:19
rm_youlbt: run as root15:19
rm_youyour user probably doesnt have write access to the usb device15:19
* konttori wonders how many people had alseady ssu'd to the 23-1415:19
rm_youthat was my problem15:19
Anunaki1Diablo is out? really?15:20
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rm_youright when I thought I was nearly done making my n800 exactly the way I wanted it :)15:20
andre___hmm. now that diablo ships modest, I wonder what to do with that component called "email" in bugzilla. conflicts, sigh... :-)15:21
X-Fadeandre: pre-diablo email? :)15:21
andre___hehe. maybe, yeah. but we also got a "modest" component already. need to install diablo and take a look myself whether the name "modest" is written somewhere at all. i doubt15:22
RST38hIs modest still breaking backups?15:22
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schillingcrashanddie, same as before... when starting it using: the server is getting an incoming connection, but obviously there is a mistake and the GUI is not starting up.15:24
t_s_oah, there was the reflash done15:24
crashanddieschilling, then you might want to debug in order to find out what's really happening. The wrapper script is *needed*, because that's how it's going to behave once it's launched from the menu15:25
schillingbut when using /root/infogui -ip using the shell it works fine. so i guess there is a problem in my .desktop file :(15:26
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schillinghhmm.. that's bad. i only have the binary file here.15:27
crashanddieschilling, there's your problem15:27
crashanddieschilling, I don't know how arguments are handled15:27
andre___RST38h, if modest does, is there a bug report?15:27
schillingwhen using a desktop file?15:27
LoCusF_damn now I gotta update my sdk as well..15:27
crashanddieschilling, you might want to show the GUI, and add a menu option to connect to the server15:28
schillingbut i think the arguments are handeld right, because the server gets an incoming connection15:28
X-FadeRST38h: I made a backup on chinook and restored in diablo. Modest worked fine?15:28
crashanddiediablo public ?15:29
luognischilling: you don't need to put run-standalone in the desktop file. You should use it from the terminal when you want to test launching your app15:29
rm_you !!! unknown initfs version 2008-24, cannot install bootmenu15:29
schillingi spoke to the person who wrote the tool. another possibility might be that the pictures are missing. they should be in the same folder as the program binary15:29
schillingluogni, both works fine. with our w/o run-standalone15:29
RST38handre: No idea although I know exactly WHY it did15:30
luognischilling: is the program looking for a specific path or it just checks cwd?15:30
luogniluogni: to look for icons, i mean15:30
RST38hX-Fade: did you have modest in Chinook?15:30
X-FadeRST38h: Yep15:30
RST38hX-Fade: then it must have been fixed15:30
hrwETA: 2 minutes15:30
schillingluogni, the program looks for pictures which are then used inside the program15:31
RST38hX-Fade: At some point, Modest saved email addresses in its XML config file with @ signs15:31
luognidiablo extras is empty.. :(15:31
crashanddieanyone have a good tutorial to install diablo on the internal MMC ?15:31
RST38hX-Fade: And Chinook XML parses choked on those15:31
X-Fadeluogni: Just use the chinook one for now.15:31
schillingbut it works fine as long as they are located in the same folder as the binaries15:31
rm_youcrashanddie: thats what i'm looking for15:31
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luogniX-Fade: yeah will do :)15:31
infobotRST38h meant: X-Fade: And Chinook XML parser choked on those15:31
luognischilling: yeah but where is the program looking ?15:31
rm_youcrashanddie: the problem is that i'm not sure we can boot from mmc yet, as fanoush's custom init thing doesnt work at the moment15:31
rm_yousince there is a new initfs <_<15:32
RST38hThe weird part is that other (non-modest) parts of the system were affected by this bug15:32
schillingin the same folder15:32
X-FadeRST38h: Hmm, I don't know. It has been a while since I had to restore a backup ;) Well, until today.15:32
luogniluogni: if you ssh to the device, cd / and then /root/infogui -ip ....  does it work ?15:32
* luogni likes to speak to himself15:32
X-FadeRST38h: Maybe the xml libs were updated.15:32
RST38hX-Fade: If you are not seeing any abnormal behaviour in App Installer, etc. then it must have been fixed15:32
luognischilling: it was for you my last message..15:32
schillingwhat confuses me: the _only thing_ that changes is the way it is started. using the command line works, using the desktop link i created ( is not working15:32
t_s_oah, the joys of recovering the software one ones had installed...15:33
schillingluogni, definately15:33
schillingit works 100%15:33
* crashanddie is going to go with a clean Diablo install, no backup :P15:33
X-FadeRST38h: I made backup today, so I was running latest modest. Maybe that is the difference.15:33
* rm_you agrees15:33
luognischilling: even if you launch it from a different directory ?15:33
johnxschilling, does the same behavior happen with the script as with the .desktop file?15:33
rm_youjohnx: installing Diablo?15:33
johnxif so one of the env variables set is messing you up15:33
johnxrm_you, as we speak :P15:33
johnxrm_you, just finished my rsync backup15:33
rm_youyou do root on SD?15:33
schillingjohnx, luogni: doesn't matter which directory as long as the two pictures and the bnary are in the same one15:33
johnxrm_you, not usually15:33
rm_youoh, tho to boot debian you'll need to deal with the same issue I am ATM15:34
johnxschilling, does it work when run from sorry if you already answered that...15:34
rm_youcan we use one of fanoush's old initfs images?15:34
schillingjohnx, luogni: and it does not matter if i type "./infogui -ip ..." or "/usr/bin/ ./infogui -ip ..."15:34
schillingboth work15:35
schillingthat does not seem to be the matter... it seems to be an issue at how the "desktop" opens the file15:35
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schillingcan anyone confirm that my file is right:
RST38hhrw: does agps work?15:36
luognischilling: well, you're telling that the apps start fine, right? event from the menu i mean.15:36
hrwRST38h: yesterday it was working15:36
luognischilling: yeah it seems correct15:36
luognischilling: remove the run-standalone part15:36
schillingluogni, it starts and the server tells me that there is an incoming connection15:37
hrwand this time I have battery applet visible..15:37
RST38hhrw: yes, but that was before flashing the official release =)15:37
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Anunaki1Can I use diablo with dual boot from ?15:37
schillingbut i can't see the application using "top" in the command line or on my n77015:37
hrwRST38h: just flashed - have to check first15:37
lardmanSo, what have I missed?15:37
X-Fadelardman: Diablo release ;)15:37
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lardmanrm_you: if you would like to do some debugging, it should be much easier now that Diablo is released15:37
crashanddiedownloading flash image :)15:38
rm_youlardman: cool15:38
lardmanX-Fade: yeah, saw that at home & grabbed a copy while the server was still running ;)15:38
crashanddiedone :)15:38
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lbtstill having a problem with flasher-3.0 - any ideas? "Suitable USB device not found, waiting"15:38
X-Fadelardman: Well, it seems to hold up now ;)15:38
schillingi talked again to the programmer. it is very likely that there is a probem with the images15:38
hrwI see first regression since chinook15:38
lbtrunning as root15:38
lardmanrm_you: What sorts of debugging were you thinking of?15:38
rm_youlbt and that is as root?15:38
lardmanX-Fade: Good good15:38
lardmanhrw: what is it?15:38
luognischilling: i think the problem is that the program looks for icons in the current working directory15:39
rm_youlardman: what I normally do... tons of mundane fiddling with settings and states of random things15:39
hrwwifi applet say that I am connected to 'hrw' instead of 'Dom'15:39
luognischilling: so it works if you do "./infobot ...."15:39
schillingwhat i mean: when sarting it via the command line it looks for the pictures in the same directory... when using the desktop file it doesn't seem to fint them15:39
lbtlsusb is: Bus 001 Device 004: ID 0421:04c3 Nokia Mobile Phones N800 Internet Tablet15:39
schillingluogni, yes15:39
hrwnetwork ssid is 'hrw' but connection is named 'Dom'15:39
luognischilling: but it doesn't work if you start from the path15:39
rm_youlardman: which produces useful results a surprisingly high percent of the time15:39
lardmanhrw: I see15:39
crashanddieschilling, couldn't you set the pwd ?15:39
schillingluogni, when i start it using the desktop file15:39
luognischilling: so.. tell your programmer to fix the app :)15:39
schillingluogni, that might be a problem15:39
lardmanrm_you: to do much testing, you'll probably need the DSP cross-toolchain setup15:39
schillinghe is not here15:39
rm_youlardman: i think i did that already15:40
rm_youerr not for diablo :/15:40
luognischilling: you can to a simple shell file, like "#!/bin/sh   cd /root      ./infobot -ip ...."15:40
schillingi don't understand why there should be any difference when starting it from the command line or via the desktop shortcut15:40
luognischilling: and launch the shell file from the desktop15:40
crashanddieschilling, desktop/ are wrapper scripts15:40
lardmanrm_you: ah cool, ok then. Will you be online this evening? I can push my latest changes and give you instructions as to how to setup then15:40
rm_youschilling: erm, I think when you start from the .desktop files via menus, it expects dbus tie-ins15:40
rm_youlardman: by this evening, if you mean "in approximately 20 hours", yes15:41
rm_youmaybe 1815:41
hrwha! initfs space is doubled in diablo15:41
luognischilling: because if you launch a file from the desktop the system doesn't set the current working directory to "/root" so your program can't find images15:41
lardmanrm_you: for me ~5 hours15:41
hrwwas 0x200000 before15:41
schillingluogni, that might be the problem15:41
rm_youlardman: it is 5:41 am here15:41
schillingand how do i place a shell file on th desktop?15:41
lardmanrm_you: ok, so I'll run through it with you at morning coffee time then :)15:41
rm_youlardman: i need to sleep in about 20 minutes, and then i will be driving around and busy until probably 2am+15:41
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lardmanrm_you: if you send me an email, I can give you the instructions, etc. that way if you'd like15:42
rm_youhrw: hrm, i wonder how that affected the fanoush initfs flash15:42
luognischilling: 1) create a shell file that sets cwd and starts your file. 2) put it in /root/launch_infobot 3) change your .desktop file to launch launch_infobot15:42
LoCusF_did I need anything else besides -F and -R for the flasher?15:42
rm_youconsidering i just did it..15:42
rm_youLoCusF_: -f also15:42
LoCusF_rm_you: ok thanks15:43
schillingluogni, ok thank you15:43
hrwrm_you: 2MB larger should not affect15:43
LoCusF_lbt: thanks to you too :)15:43
luognischilling: no problem, tell me if it works or if you need something else :)15:43
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schillingand the .desktop file should look like this:
luognischilling: yes15:45
schillingok thanks15:45
lcuklbt, at work at the moment, but git started to build nicely, only an issue when it got to building perl sections... ill see whats wrong with it later15:45
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luognischilling: and launch_infobot is something like this:
luognischilling: remeber to set it exec (chmod a+x /root/launch_infobot)15:46
Aveanyone done diablo update to n810 yet?15:47
crashanddiejust did15:47
Avethere be any showstoppers?15:47
Aveor wow-worthy upgrades15:47
lardmanIs the bluez-utils version still 3.28osso4?15:48
luognilardman: yes15:49
luognilardman: 3.28-0osso415:49
lardmanluogni: cool, thanks15:50
Aveis there some howto on the daiblo update? and what role does the playback play15:50
X-FadeAve: Just make a backup in chinook. Flash image, automatically restore backup.15:51
crashanddiethis might be the placebo effect, but I do have the feeling the browser is snappier15:51
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AveX-Fade: ok, I'll try ..15:51
Avesuppose I'll take backup to external sd-card and remove the thing during flashing, just in case15:52
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X-FadeAve: No.15:52
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X-FadeAve: Well, backup to the exernal card is ok. But you don't need to remove it.15:53
AveI'm just paranoid15:53
crashanddieI just backed up settings/contacts/bookmarks, nothing else, works fine15:53
X-FadeAve: Well, it doesn't hurt. But doesn't make sense :)15:53
Avebut ah.. what happens to root-fs?15:54
AveI've done changes to rx44 xkb for example, remapping some keys15:54
X-FadeThat gets zapped.15:54
AveI suppose those are gone15:54
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X-FadeYes, you need to backup those manually..15:54
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Aveok that kinda marks how I'll spend this night15:55
X-FadeAve: It should be the last time you need to do that ;)15:55
LoCusF_hmm my software requires 586 MB of memory ...15:55
Aveso they say15:56
X-FadeAve: Well, 'they' haven't said that before.15:56
schillingluogni, it work! :)15:56
schillingnow i have to find a way to add a shortcut to the desktop15:56
schillingusing simple-launcher_0.9.5_armel.deb15:57
luognischilling: cool!15:57
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schillingit works ;)15:58
schillingjust had to reboot the device to get the start menu entry into the options of simple launcher15:58
schillingnow i just have to define an icon inside the .desktop file ;)16:00
lbtlcuk: re git... :)16:00
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LoCusF_crashanddie: no placebo, its faster on mine as well16:02
crashanddieLoCusF_, cool :)16:03
rm_youyay root is /dev/mmcblk0p2 :)16:03
rm_youi can finally install wesnoth! :P16:04
LoCusF_also the icons are smaller16:04
unixSnobWhat's the deal with rtorrent?  Is there a binary version out there?16:05
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LoCusF_all chinook apps do work on diablo, right?16:08
X-FadeLoCusF_: If they don't use strict dependencies, yes.16:10
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X-FadeI haven't found an application that didn't work..16:10
lbthmm release notes for flasher are wrong...16:12
lbtthey say Turn off the Nokia Internet Tablet16:12
lbtshould say Turn off *and unplug the powerfrom * the Nokia Internet Tablet16:12
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lbtthen After this command, turn on the device, and the flashing will start16:12
lbtshould be16:12
rm_youhave to unplug to turn off16:12
lbtor you press power and select "turn off"16:13
lbtsorry for being a user16:13
crashanddieI'm having the feeling the battery is running hotter16:13
lbtbut that's what it says16:13
rm_youno, you're mostly right16:13
lbtshould also say After this command, plug the power into the device, and the flashing will start16:13
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rm_youshould say "Unplug the power from the device and then turn it off"16:13
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rm_youorder is important16:13
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Veggenwoa, Diablo released?16:14
Veggenthink I'm gonna reflash tonight.16:14
johnxlbt, those instructions are on the wiki, aren't they?16:14
VeggenFresh install. My current one is a bit hacked ;)16:14
Anunakincan any talk me howto install diablo without loose my apps?16:14
sp3000rm_you: not really? it'll shut down all the wauy either way16:15
rm_youso, there is a UKMP Dark, is there a UKMP Light?16:15
RST38hUKMP Pink should also be available16:15
RST38hFor completeness16:15
rm_yousp3000: IIRC it does not completely shut down if it is plugged in16:15
VeggenAnunakin: I'm not sure it can be done, completely.16:16
LoCusF_Anunakin: you'll be bound to lose some apps16:16
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VeggenThe die-hard Linux way I'd recommend to save you some trouble to find out what you have lost, is to take a backup of the repositories-file, and a dpkg --get-selections16:17
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X-FadeVeggen: Or just make a backup, flash diablo and it will restore them automatically ;)16:18
Veggenwhich you can probably compare with a dpkg --get-selections after upgrade.16:18
X-FadeVeggen: And otherwise use the 'restore applications' option in the application manager.16:18
eocanhathe problem is that many apps aren't in Diablo yet16:18
VeggenX-Fade: well..not if you've installed manually.16:18
lbtjohnx: no , here:
unixSnoblooks like rtorrent was never ported to the nit.  someone said they were going to port it a year ago.16:19
* unixSnob settles for ctorrent16:19
lbtand the login link at that page is wrong16:19
eocanhaand that apps will be shown grey shaded in the list of apps to restore16:19
X-Fadeeocanha: Just change the distribution line for extras to chinook for now.16:19
eocanhahmmm... nice trick. Thanks16:19
eocanhaand that won't harm the currently installed diablo packages?16:20
johnxlbt, found instructions I've never even seen O_o16:20
rm_youunixSnob: there is a port of Transmission16:20
lbtthere seems to be a lot there16:20
lbtit needs to be immutable wiki though16:20
lbtso comments can be added16:20
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johnxlbt, the instructions I usually point users at are here:
X-Fadelbt: We're working on that.16:21
hrwrtcomm applet is simplified too16:22
hrwin chinook+rtcomm beta it displayed each jabber account as bulb. now it show one bulb nevermind how many jabber accounts I have16:22
unixSnobrm_you, is that what you recommend?16:23
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* aquatix comes back from lunch and Diablo is released16:23
LoCusF_hmm this sucks16:24
LoCusF_now the device froze up16:24
RST38hthat was a long lunch...16:24
lbtX-Fade: nice - ta16:24
jottis there a hacked initfs for diablo yet (to boot from sd)?16:25
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aquatixRST38h: ;)16:26
aquatixRST38h: we had a slow waitress...16:26
aquatixand it was nice on the terrace16:26
aquatixanybody already running diablo final?16:27
rm_youaquatix: yes16:27
aquatixi guess it's good? :)16:27
rm_youjohnx: I symlinked the latest 2007 initfs to the correct name (initfs.2008-24.tgz) and it worked16:27
lbtit's blue16:27
sp3000rm_you: it does once you unplug it16:27
rm_youmaybe not -2416:27
rm_youbut whatever it says16:27
aquatixlbt: the theme changed?16:28
rm_youabove was for you16:28
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sp3000so order doesn't matter, though unplugging first kinda does sound less racey and weird16:28
lbtaquatix: maybe - I may not recall the last default16:30
X-Fadeaquatix: Just a little bit.16:30
aquatixlbt: ah, as you said `it's blue' :)16:30
aquatixX-Fade: ok16:30
* aquatix kinda likes the default os2008 theme16:30
X-Fadeaquatix: You will like this one too then :)16:31
aquatixkk :)16:31
aquatixgood opportunity to clean up my tablet16:31
X-FadeChanges between SDK releases here:
shdi measured n810 context switch speed by writing a program that forks, and the two processes send 1 byte messages to each other a million times. I got 6446 clocks / context switch. On AMD64 2GHz I got 4692 clocks / context switch.16:32
shdI'm positively surprised :)16:32
aquatix6.81MB free16:32
aquatixshd: hm :)16:32
shdbut note, context switch can be slower than this..16:32
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RST38hX-Fade: ! thanks !16:34
crashanddieshd, depends on the number of processes that are running on your desktop though16:34
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shdcrashanddie: there weren't other active applications that would significantly alter results16:35
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RST38hshd: Yes but how frequent are context switches?16:36
lbtnfs has gone?16:36
RST38hshd: And how many other programs have been running in background (even if they are not showing up as applications)16:36
lbtand ssh?16:38
shdRST38h: ~2 million context switches in 34 secs16:38
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RST38hshd: is it n810 or amd?16:38
RST38hand amd?16:39
shdinitial ctx value (from /proc/stat)16:39
shd19482323 -> 2148574516:39
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RST38hwait, isn't 17us a bit short for a context switch?16:39
shdthat is 2003422 ctx switches, so there were not many extra switches..16:40
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shdRST38h: no16:40
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shdlinux in general does context switches in several microseconds, often...16:40
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tlacuachehey, just making sure: RX-34_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin, titled "The latest IT OS 2008 release for Nokia N800", that's the diablo image, right?16:41
tlacuachei mean, the "actual" one16:41
RST38h4.2 means diablo16:41
tlacuachehm... that question didn't seem as stupid in my head... :)16:41
RST38hwait, that is the year! =)16:42
Veggentlacuache: But yeah. Diablo is released.16:42
tlacuacheterrific. thanks.16:42
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X-Fadetlacuache: It is in the filename ;)16:44
tlacuacheyeah, i saw that after i already posted. it's really early, i swear...16:45
aquatixdamn, is it already week 2316:45
X-Fadetlacuache: The coffee excuse always works ;)16:45
tlacuachei was looking at the string of numbers 4.2008.23-14 and somehow my eyes glazed over the "diablo" part16:45
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aquatixtlacuache: that's because of the all-caps ;)16:46
konttoriit's week 26 now.16:46
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konttoriso, even worse than 23. :(16:47
aquatixso, isn't 4.2008.23-14 a tad old then? or is that just me16:47
tlacuacheyeah, that's a good excuse... the all-caps. yeah, that was it...16:47
X-Fadeaquatix: They need to do QA on it too, you know.16:47
aquatixtlacuache: i always read over the obvious texts too; i guess too much internet does that to you16:47
X-FadeIt is not like the say, "Ok it is ready", build it, ship it ;)16:47
aquatixX-Fade: nah... ;)16:47
* aquatix should revisit his development cycle ;)16:48
aquatixX-Fade: but fair enough :)16:48
* aquatix is going to install this evening16:48
Aveis there some application changelog chinook vs diablo?16:48
Aveclosed bugs, something16:48
tlacuacheave: there's this and this
tlacuacheshows package differences, i guess16:49
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VeggenBut well. Let's hope they releases bug-fixes apt-get upgradeable from now on?16:50
X-FadeVeggen: They have been doing that in the 'pre-releases', so I guess so.16:50
Avethanks, I'll head home soon and goof up my n81016:51
* aquatix already made a backup16:51
aquatixrunning mail on imap anyway16:51
aquatixneat, gpg by default16:52
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lbtflashed diablo - went to Downloads on maemo. Clicked on evince. app mgr asked me to enable extras. I did. Got "unable to download evince Application package not found"16:54
rm_youwow, just installed advanced-backlight from chinook extras, i forgot how few options it had >_<16:54
aquatixhm, that instant messaging hack to add protocols [rtcomm?], is it in diablo too?16:54
rm_youi will try to push 0.9b ASAP16:54
aquatixrm_you: :)16:55
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inzlbt, try using chinook extras16:56
* johnx <3 modest16:58
lbtinz: ? how do you mean?16:58
rm_youjohnx: hrmrm, i still use claws-mail16:58
lbtit should '1-click install'16:58
rm_youjohnx: modest continues to entirely fail at loading my mailbox16:58
LoCusF_what the heck was the name of the tunneling app that tunneled all connections via socks proxy?16:58
LoCusF_it wasn't a maemo app though16:58
johnxrm_you, craziness16:58
rm_youlbt: as an early adopter (ie, within the first day) this is the kind of thing you'll need to deal with16:59
inzlbt, I guess the .install file doesn't have a distribution defined for the extras, so it will default to current i.e. diablo16:59
rm_youthe repository for diablo is not filled yet16:59
RST38hrm_you: imap?16:59
inzlbt, if you manually edit the repository list from application manager, you can put chinook in the distribution16:59
rm_youit will clear up in a few days to a week16:59
rm_youRST38h: yes16:59
lbtOK - so long as people are aware...16:59
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RST38hrm_you: use pop317:00
* mgedmin shouts for help17:00
rm_youRST38h: ... no17:00
aquatixRST38h: ew17:00
mgedminwhy won't app manager let me install openssh?17:00
rm_younot even close to an option17:00
RST38hmgedmin: because openssh install is screwed17:00
mgedminI can see it on the web, in
t_s_ointeresting, the microb component manager now have a update checker?17:00
* RST38h hands mgedmin a solution17:01
rm_youmgedmin: extras for diablo is empty still17:01
X-Fademgedmin: Old cache perhaps?17:01
RST38hmgedmin: remove any openssh packages you have installed17:01
RST38hmgedmin: then install from scratch17:01
mgedminRST38h: I have none; I just reflashed to diablo17:01
BlafaselIs diablo a great-should-do-right-away release or a nice-but-wait-until-at-home-again one? ;)17:01
rm_youmgedmin: extras for diablo is empty still17:01
RST38hmgeddmin: then change repo to chinook17:01
mgedminthe diablo extras repo is not empty in my web browser...17:01
mgedminam I hallucinating?17:01
RST38hX-Fade: I have got a question17:01
rm_you<mgedmin> I can see it on the web, in
rm_youlol np17:02
* mgedmin takes a deep breath17:02
X-FadeRST38h: Shoot!17:02
rm_youi just went through this about 5 minutes ago :P17:02
RST38hX-Fade: Let us say I set app installer to chinook repos and install stuff from them17:02
RST38hX-Fade: later, I change it to diablo repos and have to update installed stuff17:02
RST38hX-Fade: Will it require me to reinstall saying that the software has been installed form a different repo and thus incompatible?17:02
rm_youRST38h: no17:03
rm_youRST38h: it will be the same exact version stamp, or updated17:03
X-FadeRST38h: No that is only for system libs..17:03
rm_youso it will update as normal17:03
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lbtyeah but... shouldn't this be coordinated with the release? Or is that "stating the bleedin obvious" ?17:03
rm_youor not, if the package is the same version17:03
Veggenaquatix: Yes, the newer rtcomm is installed in Diablo, that's what I heard at least.17:03
aquatixVeggen: cool17:03
rm_youlbt: it probably could have been done better, yes...17:03
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RST38hX-Fade,rm_you: thanks, good to know17:03
aquatixVeggen: so we get the multiple IM networks by default17:03
* mgedmin misses his load-applet17:03
rm_youlbt: i think part of the problem is that none of the developers were prepared... no one told us diablo was coming soon >_>17:04
X-Fademgedmin: I use the one from chinook.17:04
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johnxlbt, it's difficult for 3rd parties to release binary packages for an OS that doesn't exist or have a released SDK17:04
LoCusF_mgedmin: osso-statusbar-cpu works17:04
lbtrm_you: so maybe a task for the maemo-nokia council17:04
rm_youmgedmin: osso-statusbar-cpu?17:04
rm_youlbt: probably, at least for future releases17:04
* lbt wanders off to find the wiki task list page.17:04
* mgedmin thinks load-applet is prettier17:05
RST38hrm_you: imap protocol itself is so convoluted that it is better to be avoided17:05
RST38h(although I understand that a lot of people are used to it)17:05
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* tlacuache thinks he will probably wait a week or so before reflashing17:06
Veggenrm_you: but hasn't the process of getting the package in extras improved too?17:06
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rm_youVeggen: yes17:06
inzmgedmin, if you think load-applet is prettier, you have bad taste ;)17:06
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rm_youRST38h: can't do without it. it just isnt possible17:06
RST38htoo bad17:06
inzmgedmin, maybe I should create new icon that fits better in the new icon theme17:06
rm_youRST38h: how do you deal with your mail being stuck on one machine?17:07
Veggenrm_you: I think Nokia is learning, at least. It's slow for those that comes from the all-proprietary-part, but they're getting it bit by bit.17:07
mgedmininz: I know; I've been agonizing how ugly load-applet looked on the new all-black OS2008 theme17:07
RST38hrm_you: I keep it on that machine17:07
rm_youI check my email on at least 4 different machines, and use webmail at various other locations17:07
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RST38hrm_you: normally ssh there and read it with pine17:07
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VeggenThey still lack on the openness in the development process.17:07
rm_youRST38h: that's unrealistic for a very large portion of email users (people)17:07
VeggenToo many people does not have the authority to speak freely17:08
VeggenAn open source-friendly company should give their developers freedom to interact with the community.17:08
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rm_youRST38h: I'm not saying POP3 is useless, since it does work for many people... but it does sound to me like you're saying IMAP isn't even worth fixing17:09
Veggen(but I have hope, because I see it's improving bit-by-bit)17:09
mgedminRST38h: have you tried mutt?17:09
RST38hrm_you: basically, yes, I came to that conclusion after trying to use it with a few clients17:09
mgedmindoes pine even support utf-8 these days?17:09
rm_youRST38h: and what alternative would you provide for users that need to keep mail on the server?17:10
RST38hmgedmin: the version I have does not but I think there is a "fixed" version available17:10
t_s_oheh, loved the new way of showing what repos had issues ;)17:10
RST38hrm_you: you can keep it there with pop3, just don't delete it on the server17:10
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aquatixRST38h: i use more than one folder for my mail17:10
aquatiximaps suits me really fine :)17:11
RST38hmgedmin: mutt - tried it but am too used to pine now, too late to switch17:11
rm_youRST38h: and end up with 30 copies of every email in your inbox? >_> that's what happened to me last time i tried that17:11
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* rm_you likes mutt as a side effect of liking vim17:11
RST38hrm_you: no, maemo mail (at least) does not do it17:11
aquatixrm_you: :)17:11
aquatixmodest is quite ok with imap17:11
aquatixclaws-mail rocks17:11
aquatixmodest doesn't always mark emails `read' on the server though, which sucks17:12
VeggenI need a better imap server, that's my only problem ;)17:12
Veggen(not on my n810, though)17:12
aquatixVeggen: install dovecot :)17:12
Veggenaquatix: it maildir-friendly?17:12
VeggenAnd does it scale to 10's of thousands of messages in a folder?17:12
aquatixi use mail files though17:12
aquatixVeggen: not sure, but it's *fast*17:13
aquatixVeggen: i would google it17:13
mgedminmutt doesn't scale to 10s of thousands of messages in a folder, especially in a maildir...17:13
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* mgedmin uses dovecot + offlineimap + mutt + also sometimes random other IMAP clients + sometimes ssh to the mail server + mutt17:13
RST38hmgedmin: neither does pine really17:13
markwatersanyone fancy compiling zfone for diablo ?
Veggenmgedmin: Well. better than a few of the imap servers.17:14
* aquatix uses claws-mail and occassionally... alpine17:14
RST38hmgedmin: Although I tried it with ~5000 text-only messages (aka spam) and it behaved nicely17:14
Veggenmgedmin: I tend to leave the large folders open *all the time*, because it's mainly an initialization issue, and it works once you've opened it.17:14
* RST38h vaguely remembers that mutt keeps each email as a file and represents folders with system directories17:14
mgedminand there's the mutt headers cache thingy that's supposed to speed things up, only I'm too lazy to figure it out17:15
RST38hWhile pine uses files for folders and stics all folder messages into those files17:15
VeggenRST38h: that's a feature of Maildir, not mutt per se.17:15
RST38hSo, a multi-MB message slows pine to a crawl17:15
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aquatixRST38h: yeah, that's maildirs vs mail folders17:15
mgedminmutt supports both maildirs and mailboxes17:15
mgedminin my experiments mailboxes were faster than maildirs, strangely17:15
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RST38hpine may support both as well by now, have not checked17:15
mgedminat least the initial folder opening17:15
aquatixah yeah, s/mail folders/mailboxes17:15
aquatixRST38h: it does, iirc17:15
aquatixalpine works fine with mailboxes with 20k messages17:16
aquatixonly deleting random of those takes time17:16
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rm_youi'm at 3500 in my inbox (i clean out every few months) and claws-mail works nicely17:16
* RST38h suspects that the right way would be to keep attachments as files while keeping message bodies in mailboxes17:16
aquatixrm_you: claws is really fast indeed17:17
darkblue_Bdoes anyone know if you can adjust the volume of the media player (mplayer?) from the shell?17:17
lbtaquatix: mgedmin: are you talking on the N800 or on a desktop?17:17
aquatixlbt: i use claws on both17:18
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aquatix[i have an n810 though ;) ]17:18
lbtI'm using thunderbird on the desktop with cyrus imap on celeron. I have 160209 mails in the lkml folder...17:19
rm_youyeah i use icedove on desktop17:19
lbtrm_you: me too...17:20
aquatixalpine opened a mailbox with 2331 messages in 2 seconds17:20
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* mgedmin updates his reflashing instructions at
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* aquatix rather likes claws-mail, but icedove/thunderbird is nice too indeed17:21
mgedminit's nice how OS updates made a lot of steps no longer needed17:21
mgedmin(e.g. red-pill mode for installing openssh)17:21
johnxI think that was a change in openssh packaging17:21
mgedminlbt: specifically, talking about what?17:21
mgedminmutt's speed opening huge mailboxes, or what mail readers I use?17:22
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mgedmindesktop, and both17:22
lbtmail etc17:22
mgedminon the n810 I usually use ssh + mutt17:22
mgedminsometimes I try to use modest17:22
lbtjust commenting that my icedove/cyrus setup is very nice17:22
VeggenHm. Somewhat nice weather. Gotta go home, flash my n810, and take it out to check the improved GPS handling, today ;)17:22
mgedminrecently I tried to use thunderbird on a laptop17:22
lbtallows me to use webmail away from home17:22
lbtbenefit of imap :)17:23
aquatixindeed :)17:23
mgedminjikes, my fingers are too used to pressing 'j' to go to the next email, and that's "mark as spam" in thunderbird17:23
aquatixah yes, Junk...17:23
aquatixmgedmin: reconfigure that shortcut? ;)17:23
mgedminsylpheed had a mutt keybindings theme, which almost made me fall in love with it17:23
mgedminbut then sylpheed had a few too many buglets17:23
jotthmm the 4.1 scratchbox installer script uses " maemo4-sdk" instead of the more recent "stable" that 4.0.1 uses17:23
aquatixmgedmin: try claws-mail?17:23
mgedminyes, didn't like it17:24
aquatixah, k17:24
* aquatix uses a tango icon theme @ his desktop17:24
aquatixon my tablet i cope17:24
mgedminsylpheed looked like a gnome program; claws used custom controls to make it look more like a win32 program17:24
mgedminthe tree widget still gives me nightmares17:24
mgedminI guess I'm just too used to mutt to switch, although I tried several times...17:25
aquatixwell, just keep using mutt17:25
aquatixwhy change a winning team17:25
* mgedmin glances at his n810 and noticed *another* click-through licence agreement stalling his application restore step :(17:26
rm_youmgedmin: i think i grabbed vim from your repo, right?17:26
aquatixyeah, those suck :/17:26
rm_youyes, that is very annoying17:26
mgedminmy beef with mutt is that when I'm editing a reply I can't read the other emails in the thread without opening another instance17:26
mgedminrm_you: yes17:26
mgedminhence the horrible packaging quality17:26
rm_youmgedmin: you have issues with backspace not working, and arrow keys generating letters instead of moving?17:26
mgedmina version number of "70", ick17:27
mgedminrm_you: only if I invoke 'vi' instead of 'vim'17:27
mgedminor maybe if I lose my ~/.vimrc with helpful options like :set bs=2 " make backspace work17:27
rm_youvim testfile17:27
rm_youif i go into insert mode and type "test" and try to left-arrow to the beginning, it puts D<newline>17:28
aquatixif you type `vi', you open the oldskool vi17:28
t_s_ohmm, where have the keyboard layout files gone?17:28
aquatixor rather, vim in oldschool mode17:28
mgedminrm_you: <esc> :set nocp <enter> and try again17:28
mgedminor create a ~/.vimrc file so that vim always starts up in non-compatible mode17:28
rm_youah nocp17:28
rm_youwhat is nocp17:28
mgedmin:help 'nocp17:28
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qwerty12Hey, does a dpkg-repack binary exist for the tablet?17:29
johnxqwerty12, I'm not aware of one. it depends on a lot of stuff17:29
johnxdo you have a debian/ubuntu desktop handy?17:29
rm_youmgedmin: what does your whole vimrc look like?17:30
qwerty12johnx, Livecd count? :D17:30
rm_youalso, does syntax highlighting not work?17:30
mgedminrm_you: messy and convoluted :-)17:30
mgedminrm_you: :syntax enable17:30
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johnxqwerty12, hmm...installing dpkg-repack pulls in dpkg-dev which pulls in build-essential IIRC17:30
johnxqwerty12, so maybe if you have a lot of RAM :D17:30
rm_youmgedmin: doesnt seem to work? and i thought it was syntax on17:30
mgedminhmm, mmpc is not installable...?17:31
mgedminrm_you: both ought to work (syntax on = syntax enable + reset the color scheme to the default)17:31
jottqwerty12: i once build dpkg-repack it needs some patches.. i wonder if it's still around somewhere17:31
rm_youmgedmin: not working17:31
rm_youit doesnt FAIL explicitly...17:31
rm_youjust doesnt do any highlighting17:31
mgedminwhat sort of syntax did you expect?17:32 files?17:32
qwerty12johnx, Heh, probably counts me out >.<. Ah well, I still have my diablo rootfs with the leaked nokia stuff on my MMC, I can mount that when I next reinstall linux :)17:32
mgedmindid you start with an empty file with no extension?17:32
rm_youtypical vim syntax highlight?17:32
rm_youvim'ed a .sh17:32
mgedmin:syn on ought to Just Work then... let me try17:32
jottqwerty12: you could also nfs mount or chroot into debian etc, and use dpkg-repack --root option17:32
aquatixalias vi='vim'17:33
hrw~blame onne for
* infobot blames tlacuache and perhaps onne for and all the evil in the world17:33
qwerty12jott, Good idea, thanks, I've got debian on the mmc.17:33
ccookeyour vim package may be missing the sytanx definitions17:33
mgedminrm_you: worksforme17:33
mgedminccooke: my (horrible) vim package has them17:33
mgedmindoes :setf sh help?17:34
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ccookemgedmin: good! :-)17:34
rm_youdefinitely not working. anything else that could cause it to fail?17:34
rm_youmgedmin: no17:34
mgedminrm_you: does :ver say "Compiled by Marius Gedminas <>" ?17:34
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jotthrw: arg, still not fixed!?17:34
mgedminjust to see we're testing the same package17:34
killfillRX-34_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin  <--- thats the new firmware?17:34
* jott adds another curse17:34
crashanddieIs using a USB-hub necessary in order to use a usb wifi adapter ?17:35
killfillwhy does it say 4.2008?.. thats april 2008 isnit?... its june now...17:35
mgedminno libglade2-0 in diablo?17:35
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jotthrw: haha did they really decrease it to 128k?17:35
hrwkillfill: they had it working in April and then did QA?17:35
hrwjott: or to 10 contacts... who knows...17:35
killfillheh.. cound be..17:35
mgedminkillfill: IIRC they always just incremented that number17:35
aquatixor maemo 4? :)17:36
rm_youmgedmin: that was it... it works now17:36
mgedminit's the 2008.23 that means "week 23 of the year 2008"17:36
killfilljust wanted to check im not downloading an older version.. :P17:36
rm_youmgedmin: i had daylessday's build... i had been flipping back and forth trying to get either to work with arrows/backspace, and apparently landed on the wrong one17:36
mgedminthe download page has a helpful bold text saying this is the latest one17:36
mgedminrm_you: mhm, do you thing a default /etc/vimrc would be helpful?17:37
rm_youmgedmin: very yes17:37
rm_youwith at least bs=2 and nocp17:37
mgedminor should it stay compatible with vim everywhere, where you get completely stupid ancient compatible behaviour by default?17:37
* mgedmin wishes someone organised a maemo packaging sprint17:37
rm_youi would attend that :P17:37
mgedminI've a bunch of crappy packages in my repo that are good enough for my own use (hence my repo), but aren't good enough for Extras17:38
rm_youanyway... happy! i can now actually use vim on my tablet and not be aggravated :P17:38
* qwerty12 would come with gun and shoot you down and take my time and still win the sprint17:38
X-Fademgedmin: I'm in. Would you like to setup a wiki page for that? I'll help.17:38
mgedminX-Fade: I could organise some office space during a weekend, provided everyone agrees to come to Vilnius for the sprint ;-)17:39
mgedminrm_you: you asked for my .vimrc17:39
X-Fademgedmin: Heh...17:39
* rm_you is very sad he lives in the US, on a regular basis.17:40
timelessandre___: ping17:40
timelessre bugzilla/modest17:40
timelessandre: i'm going into scrollback (been in and out all day)17:40
andre___timeless, pong17:40
andre___nice :)17:40
timelessok, will enter scrollback after this conversation17:40
mgedminrm_you: here it is:
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timelessso, when we (mostly me, i virtually dictated)17:41
timelessrebuilt bugs.maemo, we changed things to use general terms17:41
andre___timeless, and that is a GOOD concept17:41
timelessthe browser product could have been named something else17:41
andre___i read that, yupp17:41
timelessbut it was intentionally not17:41
timelesshaving Email and Modest in the Communication component is a problem17:41
andre___but we already have a "Modest" component, which surprised me17:41
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timelessso two things17:42
timeless1. has a component dedicated to changes to bugzilla17:42
timelessamong other things we use it to enable public tracking of changes17:42
timelessthis means people can easily see "oh, X was created by Y on Z because ..."17:42
timelessthis transparency and public logging is very valuable17:43
rm_youmgedmin: what are: "is" "ruler" "mouse=a"? :P17:43
andre___we also have that in gnome too, yeah17:43
rm_you:help command isn't working :/17:43
timelessanyway, that people in bugs.maemo are randomly creating things17:43
timelessand randomly making changes is problematic17:43
mgedminrm_you: you know about :help, don't you... wait, whaddayamean "isn't working"?17:43
timelessthere was someone who created an internet video call product17:43
timelessthis was bad17:43
qwerty12~lart windows flasher. it turned off my rd-mode :(17:43
* infobot blames windows flasher. it turned off my rd-mode :( for all the evil in the world17:43
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timelessand if i were a despot, i'd have killed that person17:43
RST38hFolks, who can confirm if AGPS is present in the Diablo release and if it works?17:43
timelessit should have been in Multimedia17:44
RST38htimeless: you wouldn't torture?17:44
rm_youmgedmin: wait, sorry, last time i tried was with daylessday's build17:44
summatusmentisit is there, it sort of works17:44
timelessrst38h: no time17:44
X-FadeRST38h: It is not present, you need to download it. But it does work :)17:44
rm_youmgedmin: it does work with yours17:44
summatusmentisRST38h: ^17:44
timelessi'm a busy person17:44
rm_youwow, his build was very broken :P17:44
X-FadeRST38h: It is still a beta version.17:44
summatusmentisoh, X-Fade, right, download it :)17:44
RST38htimeless: that's a lame excuse17:44
timelessbesides, people can be replaced17:44
RST38hX-Fade: Is it officially downloadable though?17:44
summatusmentisRST38h: yeah17:44
timelesswhat i'd suggest is that we take the old email component rename it to something and rename modest to Email17:45
X-FadeRST38h: Yes, will show up in application manager.17:45
timelessbut give me a bit to investigate some details17:45
andre___timeless, that's what i also have in mind17:45
RST38hX-Fade: perfect =)17:45
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timelessandre: i think i'd actually recommend by creating or using a component to log such things17:45
RST38hwhy not delete the old Email component from the bug tracker?17:45
timelessso that we set the precedent for that17:45
timelessrst38h: because it has bugs17:45
timelessComponent:  Email17:45
hrwdoes someone know a method to import vcards into maemo contacts?17:45
andre___RST38h, i wouldn't do that17:46
timelessSorry, there are 65 bugs outstanding for this component. You must reassign those bugs to another component before you can delete this one.17:46
hrwworking method17:46
RST38htimeless: yes but is it still supported?17:46
timelessit doesn't matter17:46
andre___RST38h, you only lose information by deleting things17:46
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timelessit's absolutely illegal to delete bugs17:46
*** Zic[NRV] is now known as Zic17:46
RST38handre: Well, you can put it away rather than kill completely17:46
timelessif i report a bug today, i should be able to come back 10 years later and see what happened to it17:46
andre___RST38h, well - to some other component, yes ;-)17:46
timelessif you delete my bug, you've violated my trust17:46
RST38handre: Rename it to mail2007 or something17:46
andre___that's basically renaming17:46
timelessanyway, that's renaming17:46
RST38hand rename modest to mail17:46
timelessbmo is growing a Graveyard classification and product soon17:46
timelessrst38h: that's what both andre and i are planning17:47
RST38htimeless: or Attic17:47
timelessplease read first17:47
RST38hAttic is a better name, more generally accepted17:47
timelessrst38h: i already won, graveyard :)17:47
RST38htimeless <-- definitely feels like a tyrant tonight =)17:47
rm_youmgedmin: wow, all of those options are awesome17:48
RST38hcan't open it until this IPTU run finishes17:48
timelessrst38h: consider that i usually have spent years developing my views17:48
RST38htimeless: Most tyrants are pretty old guys =)17:48
timelessbut anyway...17:48
timelessin this position here, i'm offering advice17:48
RST38hYou should reconsider torture as a worthy pastime though =)17:48
timelesssince andre's the owner17:48
timelessisn't torture something for the young?17:49
andre___...but you have much more knowledge ;-)17:49
qwerty12timeless, Nah, just get a gun or knife, much more quicker17:49
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RST38htimeless: the reorg proposal looks reasonable17:49
timelessandre: re OMPL yeah, it's a browser bug17:49
mgedminwhat the...?17:49
timelessqwerty12: i donm't like licenses, i don't even have a driver's license :)17:50
andre___hmm, okay - going to retest that later on when i've installed diablo17:50
aquatixlicense to ill17:50
mgedminI clicked on the statusbar extension arrow (or whachamacallit), and now my UI is semi-frozen17:50
timelessandre: there are two different things17:50
timeless1. the browser can gateway to the feed reader17:50
qwerty12timeless, Heh. But I never heard of knife license :P :)17:50
mgedminI can access the popup menus of the two applets on the extender statusbar bar, minimize app windows, but I can't touch regular applets or open the apps menu17:51
mgedminand I can't switch or unminimize apps17:51
timeless2. the browser can render xml of all flavors internally17:51
aquatixqwerty12: a big hammer or axe will do ;)17:51
andre___timeless, comment on the report so not only /me knows better now :)17:51
timelessbut anyway...17:51
rm_youmgedmin: that happens >_>17:52
rm_youmgedmin: it is buggy17:52
qwerty12w00t, thanks nokia for the kernel-source-diablo. Time to put some of my chinook kernel stuff over.17:53
macoute_is it possible to just flash diablos kernel?17:53
macoute_or is there some more magic in flashing?17:53
qwerty12It's in a FIASCO image, your favourite flasher will handle the kernel stuff.17:53
qwerty12While flashing normally.17:54
mgedminI think you also need to flash the initfs, or you may end up with an unbootable tablet?17:54
macoute_qwerty12: but if i dont want to flash, only install the kernel (which is afaik all i need?)17:54
macoute_mgedmin: that too, of course17:54
* timeless ponders17:54
qwerty12macoute_, boot into linux and read up on flasher-3.0 then17:54
X-Fademacoute_: initfs size changed, so you need to change more.17:55
* timeless should have marked that bug as an enhancement17:55
qwerty12mgedmin, I used chinook initfs and diablo kernel for a while. and diablo initfs and chinook kernel.17:55
qwerty12Both booted fine.17:55
qwerty12Of course, the diablo initfs was a concotion of my own though at the time :/17:55
crashanddiehey lcuk, you around ?17:55
timelessmy browser ate my bug comment17:55
macoute_qwerty12: how did you upgraded?17:55
qwerty12macoute_, Reflashed.17:55
macoute_qwerty12: ok.17:56
mgedminhungry browsers are not friendly17:56
jottwell at least we can provide custom user installable kernels as .install files now ;)17:56
macoute_my other option was to flash the inner memory and then copy it over to sd, which contains my fs now too :)17:56
rm_youi'm using official diablo from today, and the old initfs from fanoush17:56
rm_youand it works fine17:56
lcukcrashanddie, no17:56
rm_youmacoute_: i just followed this guide for root on sd, and it worked nicely:
macoute_well i doubt nokia changes anything in the initfs17:57
crashanddielcuk, oh, ok, I'll wait 'till you get here then17:57
qwerty12jott, until nokia releases a new one :/17:57
lcukok ill be back from work after 630ish17:57
crashanddieuk time ?17:57
rm_youmacoute_: just had to rename / symlink the newest fanoush initfs to the correct name for the flasher script17:57
lcuk2 1/2 hours17:57
macoute_rm_you: yeah i know, but i meant that upgrading my now-on-sd root with a reflashed inner memory17:57
lcukfrom now17:57
t_s_ohmm, is it me or have the xkb files gone fully mia?17:57
crashanddielcuk, k :) Cheers17:57
rm_youwell i need to sleep17:57
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rm_younow 8AM here17:57
aquatixrm_you: g'night17:57
aquatixah, g'morning ;)17:58
qwerty12shitfuck, why does the windows flasher insist on removing my rd mode.17:58
* rm_you sleeps17:58
jottqwerty12: depends on the version you give to your package ;)17:58
macoute_windows flasher probably aint even a flasher, so slow it is17:58
macoute_we just talked about it today17:58
macoute_compared to linux-flasher, that is17:58
qwerty12jott, fair enough. I don't think Nokia will beat kernel-diablo-999.9999 :P17:58
mgedmint_s_o: where are you looking for them?17:58
t_s_othat may be it, i dont recall where they should be :P17:59
aquatixqwerty12: aw, no kernel-diablo-666?17:59
t_s_obut i think i have tried just about every X11 related dir i can think of, and nothing...17:59
jottaquatix: that was my first thought too ;)17:59
aquatixmissed opportunity :)17:59
qwerty12aquatix, I may be near enough: :/18:00
timelessandre: so... i guess hold on18:00
mgedmint_s_o: /usr/share/X11/xkb18:00
andre___timeless, ok18:00
t_s_ogah, missed that one. thanks18:00
timelesssee how i handled the A/V players :)18:00
andre___ah, video player18:00
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timelesshi dougt, i need to ping you elsewhere18:00
aquatixwhy does the load applet hide itself when screenshotting?18:01
aquatixit's weird18:01
andre___timeless: it's a pitty you cannot disable entering new bugs for components, just for products18:01
qwerty12aquatix,  Maybe to inform it's actually doing it? :P. You can disable that from the source.18:01
timelessandre: if necessary we can move them to a graveyard18:01
aquatixgood point18:01
timelessi figured it wasn't necessary18:01
timelessbut i could have if it really was18:01
aquatixqwerty12: but it could also pop up a notification after it's done18:01
aquatixnow it's missing from the shot18:01
t_s_ogot to love bluetooth keyboard that rely on software to remap their keyboard layout when its anything but normal, thanks mgedmin18:01
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timelessandre: a warning if you ever do choose to move a component across products18:02
andre___it will happen...18:02
qwerty12aquatix, true. Could be a little something for me to take a quick look into.18:02
timelessyou need to do it as a grid18:02
timelessbasically run this chart:18:02
aquatixqwerty12: consider it a small request :)18:02
aquatixnot that important, mind18:02
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timelessproduct=_product_, component=_component_, x-axis=_version, y-axis=_target-milestone_18:03
timelessproduct=_product_, component=_component_, x-axis=version, y-axis=target-milestone18:03
qwerty12aquatix, will do, after i've finished reinstalling ftd :/18:03
timelessyou need to move things from each square in the matrix individually18:03
timelessotherwise bad things will happen18:04
aquatixqwerty12: no hurry :)18:04
timelessbefore you start moving, make sure that all the necessary versions and target milestones exist in the new product18:04
andre___ah, thanks18:04
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* aquatix wonders whether there are christian maemo users which will refuse upgrading to Diablo18:05
t_s_othere, now i think im back up to speed18:05
bmrhi folks, see this has come up here before but not finding a definitive resolution in the logs18:05
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bmrI'm using scummvm (0.11.1) on the n810/os2008 and not getting music/sound effects18:06
qwerty12<whisper> will a version of ftd that actually has a working battery information section be released </whisper>18:06
bmrif anyone's gotten that to work, I'd be very glad if they'd like to swap notes :-)18:06
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jottqwerty12: did you try to run it with a diablo initfs?18:06
mgedminqwerty12: what was that, I couldn't hear you?18:07
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qwerty12jott, I've been using a diablo initfs for a while (I ripped testserver out of the old ones to let me flash it ) and it still didn't work.18:07
t_s_ohmm, how often does the app manager check for updates? i cant seem to see any setting...18:07
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qwerty12mgedmin, s/<whisper>/<shout> :P18:07
timelessandre: ok, so the only problem we have is that the old mail client didn't have a useful name18:07
crashanddiet_s_o, force it to update18:07
timelesslet's see if we can find one :)18:07
mgedminok, time to panic again18:08
mgedminthe wonderful new modest in diablo doesn't allow me to change my incoming mail settings18:08
mgedminall the fields are disabled and not editable18:08
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t_s_ocrashanddie: sure, but i was thinking about that updates indicator thats supposed to show up in the statusbar when something new have come out. and i guessed it was related to the app manager somehow18:08
mgedminand then it claims the server name or port number is incorrect18:08
timelessandre: the simplest solution i can offer is Email 118:09
timelessi think that'd sort after Email18:09
timelesswhich is what we really need18:09
timelessbut let's see if there was a codename floating around18:09
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andre___"Email (old)" maybe18:10
qwerty12I remember when using *cough* diablo beta *cough*, I remember it being called osso-email-old ;)18:10
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aquatixfossil_email ;)18:10
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crashanddieI want a pimping app on the NIT18:11
aquatixjott: that might confuse people ;)18:11
aquatixcrashanddie: apt-porn?18:11
crashanddiesomething cutting edge, never seen before, only available on the NIT18:11
aquatixoh :)18:11
* aquatix likes canola218:11
qwerty12aquatix, Great, where's the binary? :P18:11
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crashanddieheh... if apt-porn comes out, I'd rather not having "cutting edge", might be painful18:12
qwerty12I'll get out my magic stick and make this pimpin apps.18:12
mgedminokay, my problem magically disappeared18:12
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crashanddieqwerty12, yeah, get to work, lazy potato !18:12
mgedmincrashanddie: NumptyPhysics!18:12
X-Fademgedmin: Maybe it was checking for new mail?18:12
crashanddiemgedmin, finished it18:12
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aquatixhm, there was some apt-porn like program18:13
aquatixmaybe it's called differently18:13
mgedminwell, not precisely "never seen before", but definitely a big hit with everyone18:13
aquatixqwerty12: curl :P18:13
crashanddiexvideos ?18:13
aquatixno, something with apt18:13
qwerty12apt-xxx stream tiny-knob18:14
* qwerty12 apologises in advance18:14
macoute_aquatix: yeah, apt-porn was there18:15
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aquatixmacoute_: ah, i'm not getting senile after all :)18:15
Sho_Could anyone with Diablo give me the browser's user agent string?18:15
macoute_aquatix: or then we are the two old pervs here :P18:15
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mgedminSho_: do you have a webserver that I could visit?18:16
trickie|workcrashanddie: maybe
trickie|workwhen its available18:16
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t_s_omgedmin: i found the same mail account issue here. what i did was dive into gconf to find, under apps/modest/server_accounts, some checkboxes labeled username_succeeded. when i uncheck those i can edit the account settings again...18:17
lbtwhen the NIT asks for a dhcp address, it doesn't seem to provide its hostname so my dynamic dns doesn't get updated...18:17
lbtis this a known issue?18:17
Sho_mgedmin: Sadly I wouldn't have access to the logs atm18:17
X-FadeSho_: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux armv6l; nl-NL; rv:1.9a6pre) Gecko/20080606 Firefox/3.0a1 Tablet browser 0.3.7 RX-34+RX-44+RX-48_DIABLO_4.2008.23-1418:17
mgedminSho_: any website that gives you back your request headers?18:17
macoute_lbt: should it provide its hostname on dhcp? :o18:18
Sho_mgedmin:, but X-Fade was faster :)18:18
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Sho_X-Fade: thanks!18:18 :P18:18
lbtah yes18:18
lbtit should indeed18:18
macoute_lbt: why doesnt the dhcp(/dns) give it its hostname? :)18:18
mgedminlbt: then again the hostname is something like Nokia-N810-23-1418:18
* Sho_ was just curious if they had finally updated the Gecko build to something non-alpha18:18
mgedminwhich doesn't seem to be very helpful18:18
lbtthat bug says it all18:18
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Sho_odd that they have Firefox 3.0a1 in the UAS with a Gecko build from June '0818:19
lbtie when you name your device it should update hostname, bluetooth and dhcp18:19
Sho_somebody not paying attention I guess18:19
mgedminhey, what if I want my hostname (mg-n810) to be different from the bluetooth name (Mg N810)?18:19
macoute_lbt: oh, that is a bug. i understood wrongly18:19
lbtwhere's the source, I'll fix it...18:19
crashanddietrickie|work, nice, but I don't have a car that supports this :P18:20
killfillgreate. got the flash done.. :P18:20
crashanddiemgedmin, change the name in the bluetooth property ?18:21
trickie|workcrashanddie: me either, but it looks cool :)18:21
crashanddietrickie|work, sure does18:21
trickie|workcrashanddie: apparently there is also some sort of emulator thingo18:21
* timeless loves css18:21
trickie|workmaybe be able to pimp some nice efl graphics18:21
LoCusF_damn lost the terminus fonts with diablo upgrade18:22
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mgedmineither the browser panning is much faster, or I'm imagining things because I read in the announcement that it is much faster :-)18:22
LoCusF_anyone got the binary?18:22
LoCusF_or deb?18:23
qwerty12The device name is actually determined from the bluez name, in a roundabout way. I posted up a command to change the device name using dbus-send which sends it all to dbus and my device name changes :/18:23
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mgedminthe app manager improvements are nice (red X signs next to repositories that failed to update)18:23
mgedminthere are weird rendering bugs, but google reader feels faster18:24
oilinkibrowse installable application. in my list there is about 15 items, even if I enabled the maemo extras18:26
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oilinkiis this the way it should be? I wish to install ssh at the start18:26
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oilinki(and  sorry, I assume everyone is talking about diablo :)18:28
lbtoilinki: you need to go into the appsmgr->tools->app catalogue and select extras. Enable it and type "chinook" into the Distribution box. The diablo extras isn't there yet18:28
mgedminoilinki: the extras repository is empty for diablo at the moment18:28
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oilinkilbt: ok thanks. I'll do with that18:28
oilinkimgedmin: thanks for the confirmation as well18:28
mgedminI struggled with that issue an hour ago right here18:29
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glass_Alpakka: /window 19418:29
oilinkiI might be able to help someone with the same issue tomorrow morning :)18:30
macoute_heh, i flashed the wrong version :P18:30
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* andre___ wonders whether to first flash diablo on his n810, or to start setting up his new laptop that arrived today18:31
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macoute_glass_: 194 windows? :)18:32
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glass_macoute_: i never close them18:32
X-Fadeandre___: only takes 20 seconds :)18:32
glass_macoute_: so i know by the number who it is18:32
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macoute_glass_: whoa18:33
macoute_whats on number 231? :P18:33
glass_my sort of ex18:33
andre___X-Fade, i bed my old laptop will crash in exactly these 20secs, hasn't crashed yet today ;-)18:33
lbtFYI: URL for people asking for diablo extras help:
macoute_ok, good number for her :P18:33
macoute_i dont use querys at all mostly18:34
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timelessandre: i think calling it Email 1 is probably the best choice18:35
timelessthe alternatives are probably too confusing18:35
timelesswe could go w/ the way we did for Browser18:35
mgedminlbt: updated to say that the backup tool does back up settings as well18:35
timelessand have Email, Email-modest, Email-old18:35
mgedmins/updated/going to update/18:35
infobotmgedmin meant: lbt: going to update to say that the backup tool does back up settings as well18:35
timelesswhere Email is the ui18:35
timelessbut i don't think anything is gained by doing that18:35
timelessin the browser case, the ui was/is shared18:35
andre___hmm. let me sleep on night on that...18:35
timelesswhereas for modest, they wrote a new (presumably buggy) ui :)18:36
* timeless nods18:36
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mgedminHAHAHAHAHAHAHA sorry can't control myself HAHAHAAHA18:37
mgedmin tells me I'm user
mgedminfirewall misconfiguration? apache rewrite rules?18:38
lbtmgedmin: weird reverse proxy thing they have going on18:38
timelessit's a firewall18:38
timelessthere's a second box that talks to the primary box18:38
timelessor at least iirc there was something like that18:38
macoute_kinda unsecure :S18:39
mgedminI once did that with SMTP18:39
mgedminspammers found it out within hours18:39
macoute_to let the wiki think that everyone is on localhost18:39
timelessandre: hrm, that's odd18:39
* timeless goes to ask some people about another bug18:39
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andre___timeless, hmm?18:40
killfillhm.. how do i enable sshd to enter as root from my notebook?18:41
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macoute_there should be some automatic in backup manager which would recognize nokias own documents and never ask a user to replace them with older ones18:42
sinakhello! Can I connect to internet via usb on N800?18:42
mgedminkillfill: install openssh-server with the app manager18:42
mgedminmacoute_: yes!18:42
mgedminand cached RSS feed icons18:42
macoute_mgedmin: that too18:42
killfillthats it?..18:42
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mgedminkillfill: yes18:42
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killfiller.. how do i "apt-get update"?... looks like the menu is gone18:43
mgedminit updates automatically when you edit the repository list18:44
mgedminI haven't even noticed the menu item disappearin18:44
lbtkillfill: FYI: URL for people asking for diablo extras help:
inzI just dput new osso-statusbar-cpu to maemo-hackers (chinook) repo, should work on diablo just as well18:45
inzIt looks a bit more like the new icon theme, but its kinda ugly18:46
mgedminwait, is the diablo extras just empty, or is it nonfunctional?18:46
mgedmincan people upload packages to it?18:46
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mgedminkillfill: there's a new update button in the toolbar of the app manager18:47
killfillupdateing is so freaking slow..18:47
mgedminthat does apt-get update, afaics18:47
jsmithJust wanted to say thanks for anyone/everyone that helped with the Diablo release... I just loaded it on my n810, and it seems really slick18:47
killfillin the toolbar?18:47
mgedminkillfill: right, main view -> check for updates -> bottommost-right toolbar button18:47
jsmithkillfill: Yes, updating is really slow for me too18:47
mgedminhey, it was fast an hour ago, and now it's stalling18:47
killfillmgedmin: aAAa.. cool.18:48
mgedminslashdot effect?18:48
killfilli would never saw it.. :P18:48
qwerty12dam, = An error occurred while processing your request. Reference #97.171add58.1214322443.59b2c07218:48
sinakCan I connect to internet via usb on N800?18:50
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jsmithNow I'm getting a GPG error when I manually run "apt-get update"18:51
glass_or somesuch with google should get you going18:51
sinakok thank u18:52
mgedminI always see GPG warnings on apt-get update18:53
qwerty12aquatix, I made load-applet not flash when taking screenshots. Now I just got to find a new way to notify the user, it's been taken :P18:55
inzqwerty, use the led!18:55
lbthmm - I have an 8Gb SDHC card that appears not to be recognised anymore.... anyone else?18:55
inzqwerty, I once implemented led flashing to mh-shot-tool, but never released the code18:56
qwerty12inz, I could do, should be a quick dbus-command , hmm...18:56
inzqwerty, and it was gone when my hdd died18:56
inzqwerty, you'll need to whip up a decent led pattern to /etc/mce.ini18:57
inzqwerty, I had it so that it blinked first once a second and then for the last second 5 times or so18:57
qwerty12Heh, I'm more simple. I'll just have it flash twice and let it BE GONE! :P18:58
mgedminqwerty12: pop up a dialog asking for a filename18:58
macoute_i'm even more simple - i turn it always off18:58
mgedminscreenshot00.png quickly gets old18:58
qwerty12mgedmin, If only I could :). I can't program, I've just picked up a few little tricks from messing with a bit of code.18:59
qwerty12The only program I've ever made was in python :/18:59
macoute_i did a nice program which opened up 700 excels and copypasted some information of them all to a text-file18:59
macoute_the guys at work thought my laptop got a virus :)19:00
macoute_well, it was more of a script19:00
qwerty12My favourite was changing a prank program from saying small penis alert in big red letters on the screen to tiny cock alert.19:01
lbtyep, having issues with my mmc card...19:06
lbtit's not being noticed19:06
macoute_lbt: have you tried another card reader?19:06
lbtdmesg sees it19:06
lbtand /proc/partitions sees it19:06
lbtI can manually mount it19:06
lbtdmesg also says: mmci-omap mmci-omap.1: command timeout (CMD8)19:07
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lbtand menelaus 1-0072: Shutting off 'VDCDC3'19:07
lbtall the above if I boot with the card in place19:08
t_s_osmall annoyance with the new app manager, the update button is inactive on the main screen. one have to open one of the sub-areas before one can update :(19:08
macoute_you can mount it but it doesnt "get recocnized?"19:09
t_s_ocorrection, one have to open one of the web catalog areas...19:09
macoute_what then?19:09
lbtnow I remove it from internal19:09
lbtmove to external and it's ok19:09
lbtmove back to internal and not seen19:10
lbt(by gui)19:10
macoute_ah, ok19:10
macoute_does your internal slot recognize other cards?19:11
lbtit always used to be internal19:11
lbtit's a sandisk19:11
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macoute_but does it?19:11
lbtif I insert card internally and boot then it recognises this one19:11
lbtone moment19:11
lbtfound a 4gb sdhc19:13
lbtnot seen19:13
macoute_internal slot is broken then? :)19:14
mgedminouch ouch ouch19:14
macoute_so you should try and exchange that one with german policemen19:14
lbtdon't think so... it worked just fine until I upgraded. I just rebooted with the card in place and it is mountable. (from ssh)19:17
lbtIMHO this looks like a bug...19:17
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* sinak laterz19:19
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qwerty12My tablet feels empty with only the nokia logo showing at bootup. I miss my modded diablo initfs :(19:20
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Stskeepsdoes bootmenu work fine with diablo initfs?19:20
qwerty12aquatix, ping19:22
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lbtDoes anyone else with Diablo have an SDHC card to hand?19:24
qwerty12lbt, I've got an N800 with an 8GB SDHC class 2 inserted in internal.19:25
lbtwas it inserted when you booted?19:25
lbtcan you swap it to external19:25
lbtand then back19:25
lbtso long as it's not root fs :)19:25
qwerty12Nope, booted from mtdblock :)19:25
qwerty12Swapped from internal into external, showed up fine, swapped back into internal, shows fine.19:26
qwerty12(diablo btw :))19:27
lbtmine are class 4 and class 619:27
lbtboth branded19:27
qwerty12This is a Sandisk.19:27
lbtone of mine is too19:28
qwerty12aquatix, If you ever get this message in time, I've removed the blinking icon when taking a screenshot. Instead, the led now blinks ;)19:28
wizaso, how do I flash n810 with intel mac19:28
lbtthanks qwerty1219:28
wizasince flasher-2.0 is for ppc and I get: -bash: ./flasher-2.0.macosx: Bad CPU type in executable19:29
wizawhich is logical of course19:29
qwerty12No problem. I've had problems with my mmc slots before, they've sorted themselves out over reflashes and time :/19:29
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macoute_wiza: how about using the linux-one?19:30
qwerty12wiza, if it's intel, grab a linux live cd19:30
wizahmm, good idea19:30
johnxI was sure people were flashing with intel macs...19:30
wizaor I could just actually hook up monitor to my server and use that...19:30
wizabut it would be easier to just not move myself from couch and use mac19:30
johnxis there a way to make it run the binary with rosetta?19:31
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wizadamn it, before I used to curse when software was only for mac and windows and I couldn't use it on linux :D19:31
qwerty12Hmm, I'm running a program at init time, I'd like for the actual program to be run as "user", not root. I just thought of using "su -c" but is that recommended or is there a better way?19:34
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johnxsomeone on itt said it worked for them...19:34
GeneralAntillesrm_you, hi. :P19:35
macoute_so someone still uses nicks as away-messages19:35
lbtOK. I just rebooted with both cards in.  /proc/partitions shows both partitions. Neither is mounted. I can manually mount both although my /etc/fstab only has mmc1 in it...19:35
macoute_ :)19:35
lbtcould I have an N810 image on my N800?19:35
macoute_lbt: have you altered the partitions on those cards?19:36
johnxlbt, you would know if you did I think19:36
johnxand it probably wouldn't cause this problem19:36
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lbtnot since I upgraded to Diablo19:36
macoute_iirc nit doesnt mount it automatically if the order of the partions is wrong19:36
lbtand I think they are just fat3219:36
lbt99.999% sure19:36
lbtlooking in /proc/partitions shows just 1 partition19:37
lbtand mount shows one is vfat19:37
lbtthe other msdos19:37
lbtshould /etc/fstab have mmc1 and mmc2 entries?19:37
macoute_i think they automatically appear there if nit recognizes them correctly19:37
macoute_the entries, i mean19:38
lbtOK - wasn't sure19:38
johnxwiza, or use the unofficial 0xFFFF flasher19:38
lbtthis: mmci-omap mmci-omap.1: command timeout (CMD8)19:38
qwerty12Hmm, what are the core sound components? The volume on my N800 is really crap compared to my modded W810 :(. I may as well pimp up the volume in source.19:38
lbtis worrying me19:38
lbtand : menelaus 1-0072: Shutting off 'VMEM'19:39
johnxlbt, I'm seeing that first message as well19:39
johnxbut not the second19:39
lbtjohnx: this: mmci-omap mmci-omap.1: command timeout (CMD8) ??19:39
johnxlbt, yup19:40
qwerty12lbt, which kernel are you using?19:40
lbtLinux Nokia-N800-23-14 2.6.21-omap1 #2 Wed Jun 11 15:00:15 EEST 2008 armv6l unknown19:40
lbtaren't I?19:40
qwerty12EEST means a Nokia compiled kernel.19:40
lbtdoes Diablo reflash the kernel?19:40
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lbtI assumed it was a complete factory restore19:41
johnxyes, if you flashed diablo, it flashes everything19:41
johnxonly the lock code (and MAC addresses stay the same)19:42
crashanddielock code ?19:42
crashanddiethere's a lock code ?19:42
lbtjohnx: would it help if I flashed back to 2008 - I think it might...19:43
crashanddiediablo did drain my battery though19:43
johnxwell it would certainly tell you whether this is a software or hardware problem19:43
crashanddie+ i have about 50% cpu usage non stop19:43
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crashanddiehildon-desktop 40% cpu19:44
GeneralAntillesAn applet is eating CPU19:44
crashanddiedo they keep running even if they're not displayed (unchecked in applet manager) ?19:44
qwerty12crashanddie, They can if they are in python >.<19:45
crashanddiecpu speed, disk free size, net stats, wifi signal19:45
crashanddieuninstall ?19:45
qwerty12Nah, just disable and reboot19:45
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mgedminlbt: fwiw I also see mmci-omap command timeouts in dmesg19:47
mgedminalthough both cards are mounted19:48
qwerty12lbt, this is an odd suggestion but what does dbus-monitor --system say when opening the cover etc? (The mmc events are recieved by HAL which is sent to ke-recv which handles mmc mounting etc)19:50
* GeneralAntilles sighs.19:51
lbtsussed it19:51
GeneralAntillesDid any of my browser bugs ship fixed in Diablo? <_<19:51
lbtthe mmc controller is seeing the cards - but it's closing the covers that triggers dbus messages to the ui/os19:52
lbtso if you insert cards and don't close the covers you can see them manually19:52
lbtwhen the cover is closed it must flick a microswitch and then the gui sees them19:52
lbtback to diablo then...19:53
johnxGeneralAntilles, like the one where pressing d-pad center to get the fkb actually submits the form?19:53
qwerty12lbt, there's a magnet which does the switch stuff19:53
GeneralAntillesSays the week is 23-1419:53
johnxGeneralAntilles, guess.19:53
mgedminGeneralAntilles: I'm sure if you were to verify them all and update the results in, andre___ would be very happy19:53
GeneralAntillesWhich is what I have from SSU19:53
GeneralAntillesand those bugs are still there. :\19:53
johnxGeneralAntilles, anyways, it kinda half works here19:53
GeneralAntillesThose really should have been blocker bugs on Diablo shipping. <_<19:54
GeneralAntillesIt basically makes the browser suck for N800 users.19:54
lbtmgedmin: qwerty12, johnx - thanks for the assist :)19:54
* mgedmin is becoming interested in GeneralAntilles's bugs19:54
johnxlbt, done with magnets actually and you're welcome :)19:54
mgedminpersonally I hate how the down-arrow button jumps way up if you're scrolling a large text with no hyperlinks19:54
qwerty12This is why we should break into nokia internal bugtracker muhahaha. I can impersonate nokia employee and make some bugs high priority :P19:54
qwerty12lbt, no probs :)19:54
mgedminI wonder if this one got fixed19:55
johnxGeneralAntilles, you still up for raiding Nokia armed with frozen trouts?19:55
GeneralAntillesHell yes.19:55
johnxstarting to seem like a good idea...19:55
GeneralAntillesI'm too lazy to try and get this tar backup going19:55
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GeneralAntillesand too lazy to reinstall all my ish onto a freshly flashed Diablo19:55
crashanddiewhy raiding nokia with frozen trouts ?19:55
crashanddieI mean19:56
crashanddiethey're finish, surely anything frozen doesn't bother them19:56
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Aveanyone know why I cant set osso_xterm font to "Vera Mono" even tho it is installed19:56
mgedminnope, bug still present19:56
Avefontconfig acting up or something19:56
johnxcrashanddie, ever been slapped in the head with a frozen trout? it doesn't matter what nationality you are, it hurts!19:56
crashanddiejohnx, I beg to differ19:57
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crashanddieit wasn't a large trout19:57
crashanddiebut it was frozen19:57
qwerty12johnx, I know a nationality that would like it :p19:57
mgedminyipee! the ctrl button in the xterm toolbar now acts sanely!19:57
crashanddieand it kinda ricocheted off my cheek19:57
mgedminyay diablo developers!19:57
GeneralAntillesfor can't you get around that by using
andre___GeneralAntilles, wrt browser bugs: i simply expect them now to ship software updates more often19:57
crashanddiecoincidence ? Blizzard is actually teasing people with the launch of Diablo III19:58
GeneralAntillesandre___, we'll see how that works out.19:58
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GeneralAntillesI'm not holding my breath, personally.19:58
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Not really. Stage hosts sources of only things Nokia modify.19:58
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* GeneralAntilles doesn't want to troubleshoot for that bug for another 6 months.19:59
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RST38hUpdating NOW...19:59
Zmikoi finally got my N81019:59
crashanddieZmiko, congrats !20:00
ccookeZmiko: excellent.20:00
ZmikoIts awesome I love it20:01
AveGeneralAntilles: ran, but its still not visible in the fontlist20:01
Zmikoflash doesn't work quite as well as I had hoped, but oh well20:01
crashanddieZmiko, did you upgrade to diablo?20:01
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AveZmiko: if you want flash videos, install mytube and mplayer, smooth playback all around20:01
Avethis was the case in chinook, havent tried diablo flash yet20:02
mgedminAve: oh? I've noticed audio/video desynchronisation with mplayer and was pretty unhappy about that20:03
Zmikoi haven't upgraded yet, I don't have a usb cable20:04
mgedmin(with mplayer playing Flash .flv videos; other files are fine)20:04
Zmikoyoutubes fine in canola, its the twitlive stream thats not good20:04
Avehm, I havent seen too bad cases of that20:04
mgedminthey start okay, but desync after a few minutes20:04
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Aveis canola fixed yet with regards to the crawler fights?20:04
mgedminand IIRC I noticed that specifically with the canola youtube plugin (as well as plain mplayer on my laptop)20:04
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qwerty12mgedmin, Grab the mplayer rc2 version that Bundyo compiled. flv plays back brilliantly in that.20:05
mgedminum, is it in extras?20:06
qwerty12Nope, tar.gz...20:06
mgedminwe need that packaging sprint20:06
mgedminhere's a plan: sponsor travel for all package developers, get them in a room, and then LOCK THE ROOM and don't let anyone out until they upload their packages in extras20:07
mgedmintell them there will be cake20:07
wizaflashing done, is there install file anywhere that I can install all repos20:07
qwerty12wiza, highly UNRECOMMENDED but
mgedminwiza: I'm trying to stick to just extras20:08
mgedminand extras-devel20:08
mgedminwell, and fbreader, because I really need it20:08
ccookeqwerty12: what's unrecommended?20:08
qwerty12Installing all the repos.20:08
mgedmin... and my on repo, because I also need vim20:08
andre___GeneralAntilles, is really ugly, you faced that one too?20:08
GeneralAntillesBack in 5020:08
ccookeis there an understanding of which repos are 'good'?20:08
GeneralAntillesI haven't flashed Diablo yet.20:08
thopiekarwhere can i get Diablo20:09
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Avehmm my diablo+restore went on smooth, all repos were restored20:09
qwerty12I'm kinda pissed off that nokia didn't provide this one by ssu :(20:09
Avebut I wonder if I should remove chinook repos now?20:09
mgedminthopiekar: has links to the OS images20:09
qwerty12Ave, keep chinook extras.20:09
johnxccooke, ones that match your OS version and don't provide conflicting packages or try to upgrade core libs/utils20:09
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Aveqwerty12: ok thanks20:10
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, don't be irrational. :P20:10
ccookeoh, yes - now it's out... what was the username and password for the diablo repo? I never got around to looking :-)20:10
wizaaah, maemo-extras was disabled20:10
mgedminccooke: no password; it's released now20:10
ccooke(and I probably use the tablet too much to risk a beta, anyway)20:10
ccookemgedmin: that's my point. what *was* the password? I'm curious :-)20:10
mgedminwiza: yes, bug
andre___mgedmin, let me get try to get more attention on that issue20:11 is still showing me ugly "click on the somthingunreadable" placeholders instead of most screenshot thumbnails20:11
mgedminshould I blame my ISP or's web server?20:11
andre___mgedmin, do you have an N800 or N810?20:12
qwerty12ccooke, it's all out anyway, so I have no qualms in sharing (and I get rights as I was the first one to find out the password :P) : . (20:12
crashanddiehow would your isp be responsible of a webserver's poor behavior ?20:12
mgedminandre___: N81020:12
mgedmincrashanddie: unreasonably high packet loss20:12
mgedminit happens sometimes20:13
* GeneralAntilles stops reading the Diablo release thread.20:13
* mgedmin followed the ITT link and saw 75 pages of web forumy things20:13
* mgedmin tried reading about four of the pages, then gave up20:13
qwerty12Meh, I never tried attempting anyway. All I needed to do was load up the flasher anyway and flash. What could I learn on itt about that?20:14
ccookeqwerty12: *laugh*20:15
ccookeqwerty12: nice and secure20:15
GeneralAntillesIt wasn't about security20:15
ccookeno, I know20:15
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ccookeit seemed to me that Nokia were being pretty nice about it20:15
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qwerty12what I was more surprised about was that I actually found it in there. I knew apt would be the right place to look, I jsut didn't expect to find it already there in a patch file :P20:16
qwerty12hi lardman20:16
lardmanhey qwerty1220:16
wizaumm, now I can't download mplayer20:16
ccookeqwerty12: it could be said that putting it there is a tacit invitation to people who are going to the effort of finding it...20:16
GeneralAntillesSomebody want to go through these and check them?
wizamaybe I should just clear my repository list and reinstall those20:17
mgedminwiza: note that many of my repositories had an empty "distribution" setting20:17
mgedminwhich used to mean chinook, but now means diablo20:17
mgedminand many repositories do not have a diablo version20:17
ccookeqwerty12: (and their choice not to *change* the password after it was found is a confirmation of that :-)20:17
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wizamgedmin: so it's ok to change that to chinook in maemo-extra etc?20:18
lardmanrm_you: you about?20:18
RST38hrestored from backup.20:18
mgedminwiza: that's what I did, and it worked for me(TM)20:18
RST38hfingers crossed.20:18
qwerty12ccooke, It would be very hard to do that. That would mean shipping a new apt so that SSU would work and I believe apt is GPL so it would be dodgy not to share any changes they made iirc.20:18
ccooke(I suspect things would have been much more heavily locked down if the password was leaked all over the place20:19
X-Fadeqwerty12: That password was public for a very long time before it was used ;)20:19
ccookeqwerty12: not as hard as you'd think. they could have put a much greater lockdown in place if they wanted to20:19
qwerty12X-Fade, I wouldn't know :)20:20
qwerty12ccooke, I guess they could share a new apt internally :/20:20
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ccookeqwerty12: wouldn't even need to do that20:20
X-Fadeqwerty12: I subscribed to -commit and saw it come by a long time ago ;)20:20
* lardman is happy that at least some of his applications reinstalled20:20
X-Fadelardman: Were there any that failed?20:21
Zmikodoes anyone here use twitter, and if so how do you do it on the tablet?20:21
ccookeqwerty12: distribute one that relies on a keyfile, say. Package the keyfile and stick it online with a login per user.20:21
thopiekarwhat's about canola? the developters in #canola said that beta 10 with fm radio will be available at the 21th of june...20:21
qwerty12Zmiko, I packaged twitter. An old version now though.20:21
lardmanX-Fade: Lots which presumably don't have Diablo builds - maemo mapper, mplater, openssh, rtcomm beta20:21
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X-Fadelardman: Yeah, just use the chinook repo. Worked fine for me.20:22
lardmanX-Fade: yeah, on my way to that; thanks :)20:22
ccookeqwerty12: *very* little disruption to the bugtesters, easy to tell who leaked a file if one gets leaked... And about 48 hours of someone's time on Nokia's side to get it set up, most of which is user account creation and testing.20:22
ccookeqwerty12: What twitter app did you package?20:23
qwerty12X-Fade, Do you know when the Diablo SDK will be released? It will be a relief from compiling stuff from stage in CHINOOK_ARMEL :)20:23
qwerty12ccooke, Doh, mitter.20:23
qwerty12(Doh is on my side lol)20:23
X-Fadeqwerty12: It has already been released .. for a few hours..20:23
ccookeah, shame. I found that a bit unusable :-/20:23
X-Fadeqwerty12: Everything you will need it here:
qwerty12X-Fade, Ah, okie, thanks. I'll grab the scripts now. I'm making conky more applet like and building it for diablo will be nice :)20:24
infobotX-Fade meant: qwerty12: Everything you will need is here:
ccookemaybe I should try mitter again on diablo?20:25
lbtX-Fade: wizard-mounter won't install.. and I see here that nfs/portmap doesn't seem to be in Diablo..20:25
qwerty12ccooke, Probably end up with same result. It is an old version, maybe if I have time, I'll package the new one.20:25
X-Fadelbt: Can you please file a bug about things that don't work?20:26
ccooke(three little problems: It never automatically updated, even when it said it was. It would sometimes hang doing an update. And it would Never Die)20:26
* qwerty12 screams as I see that scratchbox will have to be updated too.20:26
X-Fadelbt: Now there are still people working in Finland, they won't be for long ;)20:26
X-Fadelbt: Finland shuts down in July.20:26
lbtbest place? bugzilla? https://bugs.maemo.org20:26
X-Fadelbt: Yes.20:26
mgedminmmpc won't install (no libglade)20:27
Veggenhmmf. where the hell is a link to the flasher? I never find it ;)20:27
GeneralAntillesIs it just me, or do we have two flashing articles on the wiki?20:27
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: MERGE! :)20:27
GeneralAntillesHooker. . . .20:28
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* GeneralAntilles shouldn't have slept in today.20:30
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Lol, you never sleep and today....20:30
* qwerty12 wishes I had20:30
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GeneralAntilles Veggen20:31
Veggenthanks :)20:31
GeneralAntillesUgh, I don't want to have to use sfdisk again. ;_;20:32
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RST38h[carefully] I hope the internal flash formatting bug is gone from Diablo? =)20:32
mgedminwhat bug?20:32
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summatusmentissomeone needs to port cfdisk over20:33
mgedmincfdisk rules20:33
summatusmentisI really don't like sfdisk20:33
Veggento restore the backup or not to restore the backup?20:33
summatusmentiswhy wouldn't you?20:34
RST38hmgedmin: internal flash was formatted for a bigger number of sectors than were physically present20:34
RST38hmgedmin: so, sooner or later it went kaboom20:34
qwerty12mgedmin, Go on, you want to compile cfdisk for your sprint ;P20:34
mgedminRST38h: right; but then flashing the OS doesn't reformat your SD cards20:34
X-FadeRST38h: And you think a firmware update will ever fix that?20:34
Veggengood question. I don't think there's anything of the hacking I've done that's gonna be on the backup, so I guess it'll be just as clean if I restore...20:34
RST38hX-Fade: [scratching head] On the second thought, firmware update should not have anythign to do with that =)20:35
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RST38has it does not reformat internal flash20:35
lcuk2crashanddie,, you wanted me20:35
mgedminnow if you could explain to me why my n810 keeps corrupting my internal flash every few weeks20:35
lcuk2hi folks btw20:35
* RST38h is being stupid, sorry20:35
mgedmineven after I reformatted it to be smaller than the size of the SD card20:35
RST38hlcuk: moo20:35
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qwerty12hi lcuk220:36
RST38hmgedmin: some bad software?20:36
* lcuk2 has lost his big computer to cbeebies20:36
RST38hcustom kernel? drivers?20:36
mgedminstock stuff20:36
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mgedmindd if=/dev/zero of=/media/mmc2/bigfile is guaranteed to cause fs corruption20:36
mgedmineven after I freshly reformat the internal flash with the stock file manager20:36
lcuk2mgedmin, does your NIT die from battery when its on?20:37
Zmikocould someone recommend a good irc client20:38
ccookeirssi :-)20:38
lcuk2isnt all the drive space internally on the 810 from one big flash disk20:38
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qwerty12I'll 3rd x-chat.20:39
lcuk2im using xchat now so ivegotta recommend it20:39
RST38hHow To: Make Windows Vista Boot Faster With Multiple Cores20:39
qwerty12Even on windows, I prefer to use X-Chat instead of that POS mirc :/20:39
mgedminlcuk2: there's the 256 megs of raw MTD and 2 more gigs that are indistinguishable from an SD card, softwarily20:39
RST38hAh, loops Windows users have to jump through...20:39
Zmikothanks, ill look at x-chat20:39
mgedminskyhusker -> maemo extras! now!20:40
mgedminWe Need X-Chat20:40
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Raytrayirssi. :D20:40
lcuk2how long does a beta test run? speaking of which, is win 95 now considered stable?20:40
summatusmentisI'm w/ ccooke20:40
summatusmentisand Raytray20:40
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ccookelcuk2: *dead* is 'stable'...20:41
VeggenRST38h: I have a somewhat naive relationship with Windows. If I'm gonna use Windows, it's *not* gonna be my responsibility to make sure Windows actually works.20:41
qwerty12There are 4 IRC clients for Os2008. Out of them, only one has a gui. X-Chat.20:41
konttori_pidgin has also20:41
konttori_(GUI that is)20:41
* GeneralAntilles flashes.20:41
summatusmentispidgin doesn't count :) >_>20:41
konttori_(and irc support)20:41
GeneralAntillesand rtcomm20:41
qwerty12Ah, yes, pidgin. Also rtcomm20:41
RST38hVeggen: you probably never had a job so far?20:41
lcuk2GeneralAntilles, put it away20:41
ccookeqwerty12: yes, but irssi doesn't *need* a GUI :-)20:41
GeneralAntillesYou know you like it, lcuk2. :P20:41
summatusmentislcuk2: you beat me20:42
RST38hwhy doesn't pidgin count?20:42
summatusmentisbecause it's horrible20:42
GeneralAntillesBecause it sucks ass.20:42
summatusmentisat least as an irc client20:42
konttori_anyway, I agree that irc is best enjoyed on a proper client, not on a chat client (like pidgin or rtcom)20:42
qwerty12It sucks my balls.20:42
ccooke... I really have to write the irssi-maemo stuff I wanted to.20:42
VeggenRST38h: Oh. I've been working with networking, Unix, databases etc. for the last 13 or so years. Longer if you count part-time work while I was studying :)20:42
* X-Fade hands GeneralAntilles a towel. We don't need to see that ;)20:42
RST38hit's ok, better than rtcomm anyway20:42
mgedminfor future reference, the magic one-liner to make scratchbox work on ubuntu hardy is20:42
mgedminsudo sysctl -w vm.vdso_enabled=0 vm.mmap_min_addr=409620:42
RST38hVeggen: Then you should know that sometimes it is not an option20:42
ccookeMaybe next week, when I'm on holiday :-)20:42
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lcuk2has crashanddie actually crashed and died?20:42
VeggenRST38h: actually, so far it *has* been an option.20:43
mgedminwhat's the deb-src line for pristine debian packages?20:43
RST38hX-Fade: I am not sure pidgin anal sex counts as porn20:43
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RST38hVeggen: you are lucky then20:43
* mgedmin finds it20:43
ccookeRST38h: oh, it would. Pigeon anal sex, on the other hand...20:43
* konttori_ just got notification of prism update. Man, I love the update notifications 20:43
VeggenOh, I sometimes have to touch windows. But I'm never gonna take responsibility for Windows working. And if it's too close to the OS, I'll insist on having Windows-people with me to take care of Windows stuff.20:43
ccooke(pedant? where?)20:43
GeneralAntillesUgh, E-Mail and Settings are still linked in Backup/Restore.20:44
lcuk2i suppose i best do some upgrading , how are the servers holding up20:44
RST38hTV is showing shitloads of pirate DVDs20:44
GeneralAntillesFine when I downloaded about 20 minutes ago, lcuk2.20:45
RST38hBeing destroyed on camera. How cute.20:45
X-Fadelcuk2: Quite well actually ;)20:45
RST38hProbably going to use the resulting plastic granules to make new pirate DVDs =)20:45
lcuk2RST38h, i thought they were good movies20:45
lcuk2especially the one with davey jones20:45
GeneralAntillesNOLO updated20:46
RST38hthey are, they are...20:46
mgedmincfdisk is part of util-linux...20:46
lcuk2or was it the dodgy vivid porn version20:46
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* lcuk2 hasnt laughed so much before - yarrrr and avast me hearties never sounded so fun :D20:47
* mgedmin loses interest20:47
mgedminmmm, cookies20:47
ccookeIs this what the x-chat GUI still looks like now? - ?20:47
lcuk2dip them in your tea20:47
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GeneralAntillesPretty much, ccooke.20:48
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wizawell, lots of "chinook" added to extras, devel-extras etc20:48
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ccookeGeneralAntilles: right. Definitely not an improvement on irssi, then :-)20:49
lcuk2ok , if crashanddie returns would some1 tell him ill speak later20:49
GeneralAntillesirssi is a pain on the tablet20:49
ccookeGeneralAntilles: how so?20:49
GeneralAntillesWith a vkb and fkb?20:49
GeneralAntillesvery so20:49
summatusmentisif you're on an n800 I could see that20:50
ccookeGeneralAntilles: ahh. yes, of course.20:50
* lcuk2 back later20:50
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ccookeGeneralAntilles: I have an n810. Using it for note-taking at work has made me actually pretty fast on the keyboard20:50
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GeneralAntillesMan, they sure know how to spam on -users.20:52
Veggenccooke: I had nothing but n810 at home for a while.20:52
VeggenIt also helped ;)20:52
ccookeVeggen: I bet!20:53
summatusmentisI don't see the n810 hkb is that bad20:53
Veggenno, it's pretty usable.20:53
Veggenbut I'm not nearly as fast at it as on a fullsize keyboard :)20:53
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ccookesummatusmentis: if it were any worse, it'd be unusable. As it is... it's the lower limit of good enough, but it *is* good enough20:53
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summatusmentisccooke: see... I don't find it borderline unusable, save for maybe the d-pad placement20:54
summatusmentisI sort of wish the keyboard were centered20:55
RST38homweather crashes window manager in diablo20:55
t_s_ohmm, where do one control the agps settings?20:55
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GeneralAntillesInstall the agps-ui20:55
qwerty12_N800RST38h, yep, same here20:55
t_s_ofigures, i thought it came preinstalled :P20:55
qwerty12_N800aquatix, around?20:55
aquatixqwerty12_N800: yeah20:56
aquatixirssi apparently locked up20:56
mgedminominous weather...20:56
ccookesummatusmentis: I used to use the Zaurus. And before that, Psion 5mx. Now *that* was a good keyboard.20:56
X-FadeOMweather has a bit of a reputation of crashing, I'm affraid.20:56
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* aquatix is charging his n81020:56
summatusmentisccooke: the Cxx00 keyboards are awesome, I agree20:56
mgedminweather applets seem to have this problem20:56
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qwerty12_N800I made a version of load-applet that doesn't flash the icon but instead flashes the hardware led instead ;P20:56
RST38hOk, I am not touching omweather config for now20:56
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aquatixqwerty12_N800: ooh :)20:56
ccookesummatusmentis: they were good, but the Psion 5 series was perfect.20:56
mgedminqwerty12_N800: when will I be able to install it from extras? :-)20:57
aquatixqwerty12_N800: some evil pink colour? ;)20:57
qwerty12_N800mgedmin, It's not my package to upload in all honesty :)20:57
summatusmentisccooke: I'm too young to know what the Psion 5 series is :)20:57
konttori_ccooke: I loved the 5mx as well.20:57
mgedminqwerty12_N800: send a patch upstream then20:57
qwerty12_N800aquatix, the only tablet I have, only does blue ;)20:58
mgedminI remember when we had three or four different versions of load-applet...20:58
mgedminit wasn't fun deciding which one to use20:58
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konttori_ccooke: Would be so great to revive that device with modern hw. It was splendid.20:58
VeggenI think I lost my customized keyboard layout.20:58
qwerty12_N800aquatix, anyway , want the deb?20:58
Veggenoh well. It was the research that was difficult, not actually doing it.20:58
aquatixqwerty12_N800: sure thing!20:58
konttori_s60 pales in comparison to the symbian from the 5mx time20:59
GeneralAntillesNice not having Application manager crash after every 2nd or 3rd application install.20:59
ccookesummatusmentis: basically, though, it had a laptop-style keyboard and stunning design quality.20:59
summatusmentiscould one touch type on that keyboard?20:59
konttori_5mx pen was also truly great20:59
ccookesummatusmentis: oh, certainly20:59
mgedminheh, I noticed that the App Manager became more pleasant to use, but didn't quite notice why :-)21:00
summatusmentisand it was pocketable?21:00
qwerty12_N800aquatix, :)21:00
konttori_summatusmentis: yeah. about as pocketable as n81021:00
konttori_small fingered could touch type on it21:01
ccookesummatusmentis: yep. Clamshell, about half again as thick as the n810 and about an inch longer21:01
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qwerty12_N800RST38h, if you are feeling geeky, you can  configure omweather through gconf-editor21:01
ccookesummatusmentis: heh. From a review: "The Psion 5mx has the nicest keyboard of any device in its class.  I can actually touch-type at 40-50 WPM on it"21:02
konttori_GeneralAntilles: yeah, well, appman received quite a lot QA love to e.g. not to crash in the middle of OS update21:02
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mgedminhm, n810 is about on the outer edges of the definition of "pocketable" in my book21:02
summatusmentismgedmin: you need bigger pockets21:02
GeneralAntilleskonttori_, still not enough, though. :(21:02
summatusmentisI used to carry my C3200 in my pocket... huge21:02
mgedminsummatusmentis: I'd rather have smaller devices :-)21:02
konttori_GeneralAntilles: what issues do you have with it?21:02
ccookesummatusmentis: indeed. But strudier than the n810.21:02
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ccookesummatusmentis: I'd never carry this in my pocket without a strong case.21:03
X-Fadekonttori_: Oops, wrong question ;)21:03
GeneralAntilleskonttori_, since you asked.
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wizaumm, wayfinder shows that my map version is scandinavia ta2006.07...21:03
GeneralAntillesMore specifically, though:
wizathat's kinda old...21:03
summatusmentisccooke: I carry my n810 in my pocket w/ the factory sleeve21:03
konttori_GeneralAntilles: yeah, the UI is not very good in appman.21:04
X-Fadesummatusmentis: I can't be seen in public with the factory sleeve ;)21:04
ccookesummatusmentis: it would get crushed when I travelled on the tube :-)21:04
aquatixqwerty12_N800: got it, thanks21:04
mgedminGeneralAntilles: isn't that a bug in the Restore app?21:04
aquatixi'll first flash diablo :)21:04
mgedminnot the app manager?21:04
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, easy, just keep it in your pocket all the time like a little sub-pocket. :P21:04
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, I don't know.21:04
ccookethe factory sleeve fits entirely into my shirt pocket.21:04
summatusmentisX-Fade: why?21:04
ccookeand I just keep the tablet in there21:05
konttori_we had just about no possibility to do any UI related changes to appman in diablo21:05
konttori_for reasons I cannot say21:05
summatusmentisI keep mine in the factory sleeve in my left pants pocket21:05
summatusmentisit works wonderfully21:05
X-Fadesummatusmentis: As beautiful as the device is, as ugly the sleeve ;)21:05
mgedminGeneralAntilles: nice mockups on your wiki page!21:05
konttori_Yeah, truly nice ones. I agree21:06
summatusmentisX-Fade: noone see the sleeve :-D21:06
mgedminthough I don't like the column-view21:06
mgedminvertical splitters just don't work for me on screens only 800px wide21:06
GeneralAntillesMeh, personally, I'd like to see them all implemented21:06
GeneralAntillesthen the user can pick whichever one works best for them. ;)21:06
konttori_grid view is nice, and to be honest, we should have made some enforcements on the categories as well. (instead of e.g. cli and CLI being separate categories (or existing at all really))21:07
X-FadeWith the gridview you loose context when clicking on a category. I always hate that.21:07
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konttori_but, then again, tree view has similar issues (albeit a bit different)21:08
X-FadeDesigning UIs is hard..21:09
X-FadeWell, designing good UIs..21:09
konttori_colun view is the nicest, but there is not enough space for it really21:09
konttori_the current model is the worst, as everybody will always just choose the all.21:09
Veggennuts. Didn't know I had that many extra programs installed...21:09
konttori_grid might be the easiest improvement to the current one21:10
Veggenit didn't find all requirements either. oh well, hadn't counted on all programs being installed without a problem :)21:10
wizaumm, I'm seeing 3 different os2008 feature upgrades on red pill mode21:10
GeneralAntillesDisable red pill.21:11
GeneralAntillesYou don't need it.21:11
Veggenbut, hmm. I think it should restore my custom application categories as "settings". It didn't do that.21:11
konttori_those come from the repositories, not settings21:12
Veggenoh, I meant in the application menus.21:13
konttori_ah. understood.21:14
konttori_odd that it doesn't21:14
Veggenit didn't.21:14
wizahmm, I have 3 nokia catalogs and 5 maemo ones, anything I should remove?21:15
Veggenok. 70 programs installed as part of the restore-process ;)21:15
wizaextras, catalog, catalog 3rd party, contrib and extras-devel from maemo21:15
X-FadeVeggen: lol, that is a lot :)21:17
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Veggenmind you, most of them I've probably only tried once ;)21:18
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VeggenHmm - the improved gps handling - is it gonna be improved at once, or is there something extra you need to do?21:19
X-FadeVeggen: You will be our Autotester ;) See if they all uninstall nicely too? And report back..21:19
Veggenhmm...what's that "OS2008 Feature upgrade" package that I can installed?21:20
Veggeneh, install.21:20
Veggenrather, that I *can't* install :)21:21
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X-FadeVeggen: That will enable both OpenGL and the acceleration sensor.21:22
Stskeeps.. huh?21:22
jottX-Fade: hehe beware of spreading rumors it will all fall back to you in the end ;)21:23
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X-Fadejott:  ;)21:23
X-FadeI'm sorry, couldn't resist ;)21:23
jotti bet itt has 30 post about it already ,)21:24
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t_s_oquick guess, its our os update package for future updates ;)21:24
X-FadeBetter than 30 posts about the iphone..21:24
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RST38hHow do I use AGPS-beta?21:30
RST38hIt lets me choose a locationbut does nothing21:30
X-FadeRST38h: Just open map and walk outside :)21:30
* GeneralAntilles wonders if he should re-file the bugs he submitted to Texrat in Bugzilla now. . . .21:32
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I think it is a good thing to have all bugs in one place?21:32
RST38hX-Fade: had to place it by the window21:32
RST38h5 minutes, no luck yet21:32
X-FadeAnd hey, it is good for your karma ;)21:33
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GeneralAntillesUgh, I hate having to re-setup the OS.21:40
derfJoin the club.21:41
derfMy N810 is still running the OS it came with.21:41
mgedminI persuaded myself to like the periodic reflashings21:41
mgedmin"spring cleaning"21:41
mgedminotoh with the current backup/restore tools all my clutter instantly reappears in the new os21:42
GeneralAntillesThat should only come once a year. :P21:42
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crashanddiehey guys, I've had a few ideas lately, tell me what you think about it21:50
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crashanddiefirst idea, would be the ability to send a link/document/string of text over to the NIT, and it handles it "correctly". Say, right click on a document and click "send to NIT", and the NIT opens, same thing for a URL in firefox or something. Of course, this should work the other way around, too21:51
crashanddiesecond idea, create a digital lock. I'm talking about a door lock here. Using BT, and something like public/private certs, open a lock based on the current timestamp or something. Ultimately, this would mean I can walk up to a door, and have it unlock on its own, without any physical interaction from my part21:52
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crashanddielast thing, maybe using maemo mapper, use the GPS ability to trace where you're going. Throw in some speed measurements, and maybe even height (inclination), and calculate the calories you've lost21:55
aquatixmeh, now i need my n810's serial number to download the firmware, while it's currently charging, awaiting that flash21:56
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crashanddieaquatix, hang on21:56
RST38hGeneral: OMWeather just got updated21:56
johnxaquatix, arping your-tablet21:56
RST38h(although I guess you know it already)21:56
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aquatixhm, is it its mac address?21:56
crashanddieaquatix, 001D6ED58BD921:56
crashanddiefysa, Cost: Aprox. $100021:57
crashanddiefysa, I'm talking about low budget here21:57
aquatixcrashanddie: that's yours i guess?21:57
fysaof course you are21:57
crashanddieaquatix, yeah21:57
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fysayou may as well get a Mykey.21:59
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fysageneral RFID is much cheaper and more reliable than bluetooth-based solutions.22:01
* aquatix fetches rfid reader/sniffer/spoofer22:01
aquatixfysa: where do you live? :)22:01
fysayou would have to know the frequency/encryption used still.22:02
aquatixthen you hope the encryption uses nonces and such22:02
aquatixotherwise i can just replay22:02
aquatixbut i guess they are that smart :)22:02
aquatixnice device btw22:02
fysafingerprint is probably easier to fool..22:02
fysajust get a gummy bear ;)22:03
johnxno need to fool it either22:03
johnxsnip, snip22:03
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aquatixjohnx: it's more fun to break in without the rightful owner of the fingertip knowing22:03
crashanddieaquatix, I gpg encrypt the current timestamp, and send that through, you have about 20 seconds (to account for clock-drift) to get in unnoticed. At least, that's how I'd do it.22:03
crashanddieon the top of my head, that is, using a BT based solution22:04
aquatixcrashanddie: aight22:04
aquatixsounds quite bulletproof indeed22:04
aquatixbut i can walk behind you22:04
aquatixreally depends on the circumstances i guess22:04
crashanddieaquatix, that doesn't change from usual RFID cards22:04
crashanddieonce the door is locked, any number of persons can enter22:05
fysayou close the door behind you and it locks.22:05
fysanow if I walked by the door on my way to the restroom..22:05
fysait could unlock and sit in an open state, waiting for entry22:05
crashanddiefysa, most systems have a timeout22:06
aquatixmy point was, if i'm behind you, i can sniff your key22:06
aquatixyou enter, close the door22:06
aquatixand i replay22:06
crashanddiefysa, the system I coded about a year ago, had a 5s timeout, if the door didn't open within that period, the door locked again22:06
aquatixif it's your home, that will be an interesting situation, but in a busy office i might be unnoticed22:06
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crashanddiealso, we had a check, if the door stayed open for more than x number of seconds, there was a security alarm22:07
* aquatix wants22:07
aquatixi think my gf is going to hate me22:07
crashanddieaquatix, again, say I encrypt the current timestamp using my private key, the device has my public key, you can't sniff my key/crack it22:07
fysaI developed an RFID system that is running at the SeaTac airport..  if you ever fly in, walk to the valet/hotel shuttle terminals and you will see weatherproof embedded Linux boxes reading RFID from 200 feet :)22:07
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johnxaquatix, but with the new locks, she can hate you from *outside* :D22:07
crashanddieaquatix, we could also think about a feature that if the same timestamp gets sent through twice, security alarm goes off22:08
aquatixjohnx: lol22:08
aquatixcrashanddie: the latter will help22:08
aquatixbut i can just repeat your already encrypted message22:08
aquatixwithin those 20 secs or something22:08
aquatixno need to know your key or crack it22:08
johnxeasy enough to make that system replay resistant though22:08
crashanddiethat's what I said, if said timestamp is sent a second time, you get pwned22:08
johnxdon't except the same time stamp twice :P22:09
aquatixjust add some random nonce22:09
aquatixor that :)22:09
crashanddieNow of course, the greatest issue here is that simply mugging someone would mean you gain access to certain areas, but that is no different that stealing the key card22:10
johnxor their physical keys22:10
aquatixif someone steals my smartcard, they can enter my office22:10
crashanddiestill, a normal luser would probably be more freaked out about the fact someone stole his wallet, that has the key, instead of someone ripping his phone out of his hands22:10
johnxand as always 2 factor is better, 3 factor is great22:10
aquatixstill, there is a guard22:10
crashanddiethey might not "notice" the relation between office security and phone22:10
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crashanddieanyway, it's just an idea, I'm pretty sure I can build something like this for under $100 per door22:11
aquatixcrashanddie: that's where education comes in22:11
crashanddieaquatix, true22:11
aquatixthere's already such a thing for laptops22:11
johnxeducation only goes so far22:11
johnxthreats are good too22:11
crashanddiejohnx, exactly22:11
aquatixif bt device is within reach, unlock22:11
crashanddieaquatix, yeah, that idea might have biased my mind22:12
crashanddiebut to be fair, I just made it up when I walked up to my door, packed with stuff in my hands, and that's when I noticed I had to go back to the car to get my house keys22:12
aquatixnow i'm thinking about doing something similar too22:12
Stskeepsaquatix: changing MAC on a bt device is not very difficult though22:12
aquatixheh, yeah22:12
crashanddiethat's why an identification is *necessary*22:13
aquatixStskeeps: yeah, so you need to do something nifty like exchanging gpg'ed messages22:13
crashanddiethere is one hack for this though !22:13
aquatixi already have my keys in my pocket though22:13
crashanddieOne quite obvious even, even if it might seem complicated22:13
crashanddie(djeezus I'm brainstorming here)22:13
crashanddiesay, target goes out to get coffee at starbucks22:13
crashanddieI wait with my NIT, BT enabled, with a daemon waiting22:14
crashanddieguy comes buy, my NIT picks it up, requests encrypted timestamp22:14
crashanddieNIT records it, sends it over to NIT waiting by the door with attacker at the ready22:14
crashanddiedevices gets fooled, because it gets the correct timestamp22:14 just tunnel it basically?22:15
aquatixhacked over gprs :)22:15
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* lcuk just knocks on the door when he forgets keys22:15
johnxif you're already doing encryption you just need a certificate for your door :D22:15
GeneralAntillesWeird, installing XChat broke the Application Menu. . . .22:15
aquatixlcuk: gf tends to work ;)22:15
lcukhopefully shes not susceptable to replay attacks either22:15
crashanddiejohnx, I love to find flaws in my current design, keeps me going, challenges are what drive me :P22:15
johnxcrashanddie, I know. it's fun, isn't it? :D22:16
aquatixcrashanddie: i think the solution is to have to sign a request for timestamp22:16
crashanddiewell, whatever we're sending over22:16
aquatixthen you can have your buddy act like your target, relay the request to you22:16
aquatixyou relay to target and then your scheme comes in22:16
aquatixmen in the middle22:16
lcukwhy have timestamps, just remember which side of the door you are meant to be on - if you are inside office/house and someone comes to the door locked outside dont let them in22:17
crashanddielcuk, you can't know which side you at22:17
aquatixlcuk: we are both outside22:17
aquatixtarget and me22:17
lcukthen hit the imposter on the head with the handy 8x0 you have in your pocket22:17
||cwsure you can, signal strength will be significantly less outside22:17
crashanddielcuk, even so, say, on a basic principle, that you have to unlock the door too to get in/out22:17
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crashanddie||cw, not necessarily, most badge readers have on instance on the inside AND outside of said door22:18
lcukwhy wouldnt you use a normal door catch?22:18
johnxcrashanddie, if that was the case, OSHA would chew you out for not complying with fire safety code :P22:18
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crashanddiejohnx, doors unlock when there's a fire alarm? :-°22:18
aquatixemulate an alarm, done :)22:18
* crashanddie throws molotov22:19
||cwyeah but those work on a matter of inches or less, bt works on feet22:19
* lcuk brings a burning torch to crashanddie's house to get in22:19
* aquatix brings pitforks22:19
summatusmentiswhat is a pit fork?22:19
johnxcrashanddie, also, if that system say ... catches on fire a lot of people are gonna be unhappy22:19
lcukpitforks? the devils work22:19
Mikhobring out the witch!22:19
aquatixsummatusmentis: something sharp and pointy22:19
summatusmentisa pitch fork, I've heard of22:19
||cwjohnx: well, you tie it to the fire system and unlock it, many systems do this22:19
aquatixpitch fork22:19
summatusmentisah, ok :)22:19
aquatixexcuse my french22:19
aquatixsummatusmentis: it's late ;)22:20
summatusmentisno excuse22:20
lcukracing drivers each dinner with a pit fork22:20
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crashanddie||cw, I don't think it would be quite accurate tbh... Say someone wears a layer of isolating material, that weakens the BT signal, or the guy stands a bit too far, and halts because he's answering a phone call/picks up stuff, you'd get a false positive22:20
lcukthats quite an impressive fork22:20
aquatixsummatusmentis: let's just say englis my fourth language or something ;)22:20
aquatixlcuk: uh-huh22:21
lcukinfact, thats the mother of all forks22:21
aquatixi love his hat22:21
* aquatix should really get one too22:21
aquatixi guess it will suit me hilariously22:22
||cwwell, he halts, there's no problem, and wearing lead infused clothing is questionable in the first place22:22
aquatix||cw: tinfoil22:22
crashanddieok, so that idea was quite controversial, plus, it's more of a cheap gadget than really useful, tbh22:22
crashanddiewhat about first idea?22:22
crashanddie(crashanddie) first idea, would be the ability to send a link/document/string of text over to the NIT, and it handles it "correctly". Say, right click on a document and click "send to NIT", and the NIT opens, same thing for a URL in firefox or something. Of course, this should work the other way around, too22:22
lcukok aquatix the google image search you did, WTF is the next picture about?22:22
aquatixlcuk: omg22:22
lcuki do believe the guy has a traffic cone sticking out of his ass22:23
aquatixyeah, something like that22:23
||cwaquatix: foil doens't have that much of an effect on 2.4Ghz22:23
lcukOMG safesearch, why have you failed me now22:23
aquatixlcuk: lol22:23
aquatixsafesearch is for wussies ;)22:24
aquatixlcuk: or are you at work?22:24
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lcuknot at all, but i was searching for pitchfork, not telescopic fart power22:24
aquatixnothing to do with safesearch22:24
aquatixjust failing algorythms22:24
aquatixepic fail though22:25
crashanddieok, no-one remotely interested in that one22:25
lcukthats not a fail though, quite inventive and i suppose would save the environment in some way22:25
lcukjust dont breath the fumes22:25
aquatixcrashanddie: hm22:25
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aquatixcrashanddie: i think it's very prank-prone :)22:25
lcukcrashanddie, i actually really like that ident22:25
aquatixbut it's quite a good idea indeed22:26
crashanddiethen, there's the last one, that I still need to work on, which would be anti-stealing NIT... Add a small daemon, that checks on regular intervals if NIT has been stolen. If it has, gather GPS data, and send to server.22:26
lcukaquatix, bluetooth pairing/ssl login would prevent pranks22:26
aquatixcrashanddie: enter 4 8 15 16 23 42 every 108 minutes?22:26
aquatixlcuk: true22:26
lcukcrash, just do that anyway, when you slide the keyboard out just take a snapshot and upload to your own private ftp including latest available gps22:27
crashanddieaquatix, hmm ?22:27
aquatixcrashanddie: never watched Lost i guess? ;)22:27
crashanddielcuk, heh, not bad idea, the snapshot feature :P22:27
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aquatixlcuk: geotagged mugshots, nice22:27
crashanddiejust go to the cops with it :P22:28
aquatixcall it geomug22:28
lcukand since its private you get get rid of the ones where you are picking your nose and no1 will know22:28
crashanddiehere you go fellas, all the work is done for you... He's at 34, calamity drive22:28
aquatixto stay in web2.0 terminology ;)22:28
lcukthe only problem with snapshot i think is that the camera is tied to the red led - it glows when its enabled always i believe22:29
crashanddielcuk, mce should be hackable for that, no ?22:29
aquatixthat's hackable i'd say ;)22:29
lcuki suppose you could set an evil red devil theme so they wouldnt suspect22:29
* aquatix is gone for a bit22:29
crashanddieerr, why I added mce in that is a mystery22:29
crashanddieaquatix, cheers22:29
aquatixcrashanddie: cya :)22:29
mgedminwhy does do that stupid redirect instead of providing direct links to upstream blogs in the RSS feed?22:29
aquatixhf guys and galls22:29
mgedminstats collecting?22:30
sp3000ehm, do you get a comma appended to the filename when downloading from ?22:31
crashanddiesp3000, yeah22:31
lcukcrashanddie, what did ou want me for earlier by the way22:31
crashanddielcuk, PM22:31
lcukjust saw - its out of normal line of sight22:32
sp3000crashanddie: browser?22:34
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crashanddiesp3000, wget22:34
crashanddiesp3000, firefox22:34
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sp3000oh, you've fed wget your cookies? you can wget -S then :)22:35
sp3000bug 3290 - comma appended to filenames from tablets-dev22:35
towoWell, it's how you do successful business, eh.22:38
towo"Let's just buy them up, make their product open source, and then use their experience along with other to make a cool OS that we all don't have to pay royalties for. yay!"22:38
summatusmentisSo that puts... Android, OpenMoko, and now Symbian as open source phone OSs... palm is supposed to be coming at some point22:40
summatusmentisthat's awesome22:40
RST38hAre you sure it is how you do successful business?22:40
RST38hPalm is already dead22:40
RST38hAFAIK, OpenMoko is slowly moving in the same direction22:40
GeneralAntillesThank god for Palm going away.22:40
RST38hAndroid and Symbian - will see22:41
* RST38h agrees with General22:41
crashanddieAndroid is too much phone-oriented, they'll suffer the same end as OpenMOKO as far as I can tell22:42
crashanddiemaybe the Google-fanboys will help it stay alive, but it's doomed22:42
crashanddiewe don't need *yet another phone OS*22:42
crashanddiethere's a shitload already22:42
crashanddiewe need a standard platform, that enables portability22:42
glass_android is much hyped by people who think it brings total freedom to their phone..22:42
GeneralAntillesThe "Postal address in Contacts?" thread in -users cracks me up.22:42
summatusmentisRST38h: Palm will is supposed to be releasing a new one at some point22:42
glass_summatusmentis: palm has been supposed to have been doing that for past what.. 6 years?22:43
RST38hsumma: Whatever they are supposed to do, they are a corpse22:43
RST38hHave been dead for a while now, like Amiga of old22:43
glass_summatusmentis: and they've started again couple of times or so22:43
summatusmentisglass_: yeah, fair enough22:43
glass_plus they'd have to have a good device and etc22:43
summatusmentisarguably the centro is decent22:43
glass_centro is 5 years late22:44
RST38hI would suggest waiting with voicing opinion on Android - the thing is not here yet22:44
summatusmentisor they could license their OS22:44
RST38hWho knows what it will be when released and how it will be used22:44
glass_licensing palmos is easy enough22:44
RST38hsumma: Palm has no "OS" to speak of22:44
glass_but it's ooold22:44
glass_ah yeah they sold their os and are licensing it themeselfs..?22:44
RST38hsumma: A bunch of incoherent libraries is not an OS22:44
glass_hah that too22:44
crashanddieRST38h, Google is hoping to catch most of the googleappengine apps on Android, that's obvious22:45
glass_but palms problem is that they never went anywhere after buying handspring22:45
RST38hcrash: There is a joke about this22:45
glass_so palms inside innovation has been a dead duck for past 10 years22:45
RST38hcrash: "Is it right that an elephant consumes 100kg of bananas a day? --- He does, but who is gonna let him?"22:46
mgedmininteresting times22:46
RST38hglass: As in "no filesystem and running <=64kB 68000 apps inside an emulator"22:47
mgedminhey, palmos had a database-based filesystem22:47
mgedminthat's where microsoft is trying (and failing) to get to :-)22:47
RST38hmgedmin: it is not a filesystem22:48
RST38hmgedmin: try programming for it22:48
mgedmindon't ruin my joke!22:48
mgedminat least palmos apps started up instantly22:48
RST38hWell, BeOS had a DB-based file system and it worked22:48
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RST38hmgedmin: with 64kB limit, no wonder...22:48
mgedminand the user interface was pretty convenient22:49
mgedminthe only problem was there were not enough apps :-)22:49
RST38hUI is the only nice thing about Palm22:49
mgedminand the form factor of older, smaller, thinner, lighter palms22:49
RST38hNow, if they took their UI and moved it as a library to Linux or something else, they would be very well off22:49
mgedminnow *that* was pocketable22:49
RST38hUnfortunately, they were THAT stupid to ignore the opportunity22:49
glass_beos was pretty good22:50
glass_but being a pretty good os means nothing if you got no users22:50
mgedminI saw BeOS only once22:51
glass_which palm will have hard time doing whatever the os they start to use22:51
mgedminit crashed immediately after booting22:51
glass_i ran dano(beta of a version that never shipped) for a while22:51
glass_mgedmin: it needed patches for some modern cpu's22:51
glass_theres zeta now22:52
glass_or at least was.. havent checked into it in a while22:52
mgedminI read about the tricks they had to invent to make C++ libraries binary-compatible22:52
mgedmindefining extra unused virtual methods so the vtables wouldn't change sizes etc.22:52
jottthere is also haiku ..22:52
RST38hmgedmin: this is standard22:52
mgedminit was awesome and contributed to the erosion of my then-belief that C++ was the perfect language ever22:53
RST38has Nokia switches to QT you are gonna see a LOT of these tricks ;)22:53
glass_dano got pretty good uptimes though22:53
glass_never crashed on me.. well the audio subsystem crashed but the audio drivers were buggy.. and the subsystem could be restarted with couple of clicks22:53
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jottwell actually Qt uses pimpl all along..22:54
p|new firmware for n80022:54
RST38hwhat is pimpl?22:54
kkrustyi kid22:55
jottprivate implementation22:55
RST38hbut how do they expose apo?22:56
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jottRST38h: there is a short summary22:57
jsmithIs this expected?  W: GPG error: diablo Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG F5925991C8009E74 Nokia repository signing key 1v122:59
kkrustyI heard the browser is better in diablo23:00
jsmithkkrusty: Seems to be MicroB 1.0.1... I don't notice anything different yet23:02
infobotkkrusty meant: I heard the browser is faster in diablo23:02
kkrustyah! right23:02
kkrustyI suppose I should backup23:03
kkrustybefore anything23:03
forgePlacebo efect :)23:03
mgedminjsmith: I always saw those errors23:03
kkrustyIm not feeling good. I was thinking deja vu when you said Placebo...23:03
kkrustyand some time before I almost brushed with shaving cream23:04
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mgedminwheee DATABASES ARE FILES thread on maemo-whatever@23:05
* mgedmin rotfls23:06
JaffaMorning, all23:06
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GeneralAntillesIt is a bit better.23:06
GeneralAntillesIt's just not a newer version of Gecko23:06
Jaffamgedmin: oooh, I look forward to that.23:06
GeneralAntillesHey, Jaffa.23:06
JaffaOf course, on an iSeries: physical files *are* database tables23:07
jsmithGeneralAntilles: Are these GPG invalid signature errors something to worry about?23:08
GeneralAntillesNot in my experience23:08
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RST38bisxchat installed23:09
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Jaffamgedmin: oh, that's good. "Or are you claiming that databases take up zero23:11
Jaffadisk space and are stored in the "aether" somehow?" - our new db access layer at work, is codenamed "Aether" :-)23:12
RST38hShit, somebody needs to upload all these packages (xchat,nethack,etc) to a repository23:12
mgedminI particularly like the strawman invocation23:12
mgedminskyhusker's xchat packages are published without sources23:13
GeneralAntillesRST38h, unfortunately, those someones need to be the maintainers. :\23:13
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mgedminGPL violation alert!23:13
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GeneralAntillesWrite his a letter requesting the sources.23:13
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Write him a letter requesting the sources.23:13
RST38hGA: Well, one can create a rogue repo and put them all there23:14
GeneralAntillesWell, the issue is more of the uploader uploading the package and then forgetting about it23:15
GeneralAntillesso the repo packages and the maintainer's packages get out of sync.23:15
RST38hwell, this is ok, at least the package is there23:15
* mgedmin sends a polite email asking for the sources23:16
GeneralAntillesSomebody should pick XChat up23:16
GeneralAntillessince he seems to have mostly abandoned it.23:16
mgedminI tried once, but doing the port from scratch (= from upstream xchat sources) was too hard23:17
RST38hColor Lines should absolutely be in the repo23:17
mgedminand the bora package had strange ./configure ifdefs specifically for Maemo version 3.023:17
RST38hIt is one of the best suited games for the tablet23:17
mgedminNumptyPhysics too23:18
kkrustythe diablo page doesnt say how to reflash my n800. Can anyone hint me on that?23:18
mgedminkkrusty: yes23:18
Jaffakkrusty: the same way you reflash chinook ;-)23:18
Jaffakkrusty: there's another wiki page, hang on...23:18
kkrustyJaffa: I've forgotten23:18
lbtFYI: URL for people asking for diablo extras help:
lbtthat has the flash stuff23:19
GeneralAntillesSomebody really needs to merge the two flashing pages. <_<23:19
mgedminyay the wiki is DOWN!23:19
lbtI always think of madonna when I  see <_<23:19
mgedmin    * Connection to Failed23:19
GeneralAntillesIt's not down23:19
GeneralAntillesThe Apache threads just crap out every once and a while. :\23:19
mgedminschroedinger's wiki23:20
mgedmin should probably be shut down now that sardine is gone23:20
mgedminGeneralAntilles: what was the other wiki page?23:21
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mgedminah, found it:
kkrustylinux flasher; linux as in the host OS?23:21
kkrustyso its not possible with windows?23:21
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GeneralAntillesThe N810/N800 support page at would've told you how.23:22
mgedminUpgrading_tablet_OS is the saner title, but Installation has more accurate info23:23
* mgedmin is trying to merge the two23:23
kkrustyGeneralAntilles: thanks.23:23
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, they're both accurate23:24
GeneralAntillesInstalling was just updated for Diablo for some reason.23:24
mgedminI meant more detailed23:24
mgedminI guess23:24
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I'd just merge the Flashing Linux instructions from Installation over the Flashing on Linux instructions in Upgrading tablet OS23:25
mgedminwaiting for
mgedminplease be up...23:27
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sidnei_what! diablo released? When!!!!!23:29
GeneralAntillesThis morning. . . .23:30
kkrustyno party?23:30
* sidnei_ calls it a day and goes upgrade to diablo....23:30
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summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: oh really?23:32
GeneralAntillesWhat really?23:32
summatusmentisDiablo released23:32
summatusmentisdefinitely didn't know that23:32
GeneralAntilles /topic23:32
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GeneralAntillessummatusmentis, what, have you not been on the internet all morning?23:32
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aquatixok, this has likely been asked dozens of times already, but does a flash whipe the internal flashram?23:33
aquatixthe internal drive23:33
mgedminaquatix: yes, if you mean the 256 MB "hard disk", and no, if you mean the internal 2GB "flash card"23:34
mgedmina n810 has two, you see23:34
aquatixflash card23:34
summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: not really23:34
aquatixdang, i really should clear my mind in the evening :)23:34
aquatixthe 256MB flash memory will be nuked of course, but i was wondering about the 2GB flash card23:34
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aquatixtoo much flashing :)23:35
GeneralAntillesNo, it doesn't touch the cards.23:35
chur1bad for epileptics23:35
aquatixGeneralAntilles: k, thanks23:35
aquatixjust making sure23:35
mgedminthe 2GB flash card nukes itself automatically, without your express involvement23:35
mgedminat least mine does23:35
mgedmindon't keep valuable data on it23:35
aquatixmgedmin: corruption?23:35
aquatixi've had that too23:35
aquatixnot sure what caused it23:35
chur1can you move valuble data off it onto your removible card?23:36
aquatixmaybe i'll format it with another fs23:36
aquatixchur1: sure23:36
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lbtmgedmin: did you steal my lock?23:37
lbton the wiki?23:37
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chur1aquatix: thanks23:38
aquatixchur1: just copy with the file manager23:38
mgedminlbt: lock?23:38
aquatixor use the terminal23:38
mgedmindidn't take nuthin'23:38
mgedminlbt: I'm trying to merge Installation and Upgrading_tablet_OS pages23:39
lbtI was merging Upgrading_tablet_OS & Installation I guess Mediawiki doesn't lock the pages23:39
mgedminsorry :/23:39
lbtI just blatted your changes :)23:39
lbtI'll reapply them23:39
mgedminthe bit about Diablo Extras doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the page...23:39
mgedminI was stuck trying to decide what to do about it23:39
lbtno - but you'll need it when you upgrade...23:40
mgedminbut now I don't have to, since I can leave the merging to you :-)23:40
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lbtand it's a short term hack...23:40
mgedminmaybe add an "After the upgrade" section?23:40
mgedminalso, mention the maemo extras being disabled bug and the workaround23:40
mgedminit has the link, since I don't remember the bug numbers23:40
aquatixstill too bad to waste an uptime of 34 days to a flash update ;)23:41
lbtyep - seems OK23:42
qwerty12_N800There must be a program to fake uptime :p23:42
aquatixqwerty12_N800: nah, that's no fun23:43
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chibiAcydyeah, how else can there be windows servers with uptimes above 30 days23:43
aquatixqwerty12_N800: hm, i installed that new load applet, but it still acts the same23:44
* Jaffa despairs at the "diablo released" thread on ITT.23:44
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aquatixunloaded and reloaded it23:44
JaffaI think I'm going to offline for the next 12 hours ;-)23:44
qwerty12_N800aquatix, time to lose the uptime ;). give it a reboot.23:44
aquatixqwerty12_N800: myeah, going to flash now anyway23:45
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I couldn't get through it.23:45
summatusmentisso we do have to flash diablo, this last time23:45
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summatusmentisany time afterwards, it'll be fine23:45
mgedminin theory23:46
JaffaTheoretically ;-)23:46
qwerty12_N800thats ze master plan, after world  domination23:46
RST38hAm I the only one who does not like the default theme in Diablo?23:46
GeneralAntillesEven Ubuntu can't manage to get non-"flashing" updates completely right.23:46
GeneralAntillesI love it.23:46
* Jaffa wonders if there's anything FIASCO contained which has ever changed in the existence of Maemo which can't be upgraded in place?23:46
GeneralAntillesCompared to the themes from OS2005,6, and 7 it's absolutely fantastic.23:46
mgedminwhat? is the theme different from chinook?23:46
* Jaffa dittos mgedmin23:47
GeneralAntillesJust the background.23:47
qwerty12_N800RST38h, It's the same as chinook except swapped background.23:47
JaffaOh, so it's still "echo" but with not the blue bubbles?23:47
mgedminthe theme quality has improved very much23:47
GeneralAntillesIt's got blue squiggles now.23:47
RST38hqwerty: And I hate the background =023:47
RST38hSquiggles look like some book from 70s23:48
qwerty12_N800RST38h, The chinook one is still there :)23:48
GeneralAntillesOr pick a nice, new, non-abstract one from
GeneralAntillesWoo, Engadget picked up Diablo23:49
GeneralAntillesThey picked the wrong screenshot, though.23:49
JaffaInteresting. Diablo image is about 20MB smaller than the chinook image23:49
mgedminit's the smallest OS2008 image23:49
RST38hqwerty: I know it is a stupid question but how do I change the background?23:49
aquatixnow let's hope it's 20% [or more] faster :)23:49
mgedminRST: go home, open the menu, and look around23:49
GeneralAntillesRST38h, the menu from the desktop.23:49
aquatixRST38h: just right click the desktop23:50
aquatixduh ;)23:50
* RST38h is going to use the one from Ubuntu, made from elephant's ass23:50
* Jaffa is currently using as his background23:50
mgedmin... sounds like an adventure game23:50
RST38haquatix <-- evil23:50
qwerty12_N800RST38h, on the desktop tap the word home23:50
JaffaOh, btw, does the desktop introduce a "lock applets" mode?23:50
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I recognize that. :P23:50
aquatixRST38h: i know23:50
RST38hI see it!23:50
aquatixRST38h: it's diablo day, duh ;)23:50
RST38hqwerty,mhedmin,GA: thanks!23:50
* aquatix makes some more backups23:50
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: *cough*23:50
NaviZomg, we were all left below!23:51
GeneralAntillesUsing this right now:
lbt & mered23:51
GeneralAntilleslbt, can I delete Installation?23:51
lbtit's a proper redirect23:52
lbtno need23:52
GeneralAntillesAlready dealt with23:52
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lbtold links work23:52
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* aquatix thinks it's cool how his n810 has a /cdrom23:53
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lbtGeneralAntilles: FWIW:
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GeneralAntillesYeah, I see it. ;) Thanks!23:55
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kkrustyI just remembered something after reflashing23:58
kkrustywhat about all those packages?23:58
GeneralAntillesDid you make a backup?23:58
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kkrustyI didnt make one but that was intentional. Im wondering whether those packages will be available to be installed23:59

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