IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2008-06-23

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JaffaGeneralAntilles: do we know how 'peterschneider' is, BTW?00:25
infobotJaffa meant: GeneralAntilles: do we know who 'peterschneider' is, BTW?00:25
GeneralAntillesQuim's manager, evidently.00:25
* Jaffa only saw the name for the first time today.00:25
JaffaAh, I see.00:25
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GeneralAntillesHe may be a bit new00:26
GeneralAntillesI think X-Fade mentioned meeting him early in the year.00:26
JaffaIt's interesting that a more senior Nokia person than Quim is drafting "Welcome to the community" things whilst both Nokia and that community are trying to put more control in the community itself.00:27
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GeneralAntillesIf it's well-written and useful, it's not skin off my back. :D00:28
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infobotGeneralAntilles meant: If it's well-written and useful, it's no skin off my back. :D00:29
timelyJaffa: where is this doc?00:30
JaffaGeneralAntilles: True, but it's harder (both mentally and physically) to totally redefine something from someone senior. It starts reading like a front page of the community website, but who's going to read it, rather than just close their browser? Hence, my question about purpose on the talk page.00:30
infobotJaffa meant: GeneralAntilles: True, but it's harder (both mentally and politically) to totally redefine something from someone senior. It starts reading like a front page of the community website, but who's going to read it, rather than just close their browser? Hence...00:30
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, sign that properly.00:31
GeneralAntillesYou did00:31
JaffaJust have. Forgot I wasn't logged in (one of the reasons I've a distaste for anonymous edits ;-))00:31
GeneralAntillesThere's a mediawiki plugin to log you in when you submit an edit if you aren't already.00:32
timelyGeneralAntilles: zeenix changed groups, he probably can't say much until close to the next release :)00:32
GeneralAntillesOh, he's with Nokia?00:32
* Jaffa hadn't realised that either.00:32
JaffaAll he'd talked about s/w wise that I'd seen was gupnp stuff (which I've no interest in, seemed to be desktop software, but at least /was/ software ;-))00:33
GeneralAntillesWe could really use that "Who's who" map right about now.00:34
JaffaGeneralAntilles: enableble in my account or is it a global thing?00:34
GeneralAntillesIt's a plugin00:34
GeneralAntillesSomebody'd have to install it.00:34
timelyjaffa / GeneralAntilles : #jaffa ?00:34
timelyso not my fault... i gave dneary his head start over a month ago00:35
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timelyGeneralAntilles: in general i think it's safe to assume people talking about helsinki probably are00:42
timelyespecially if they don't make sense and don't sound like finns :)00:42
timelyif they sound like finns, assume they aren't :)00:42
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timelyhey, the logic works...00:43
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DekaritaeIs there a trick to moving the xterm toolbar from the bottom to the right?00:51
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rm_youwow, upgraded bash-completion package in Sid and now it just FAILS00:52
sinakis there an openoffice for N800?00:52
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lardmanssvb: hi00:53
lardmanssvb: Sorry for the late reply, I'll be interested to hear how you get on00:53
acydlordno OOo for maemo yet00:54
lardmanssvb: I timed the data transfer vs processing and it's ~3.4s for transfer vs ~20s for transfer + processing00:54
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ssvblardman: so data transfer takes almost the same time as full processing on ARM?00:55
lardmanyes, perhaps even a bit more00:55
ssvblardman: regarding DMA, I got it working00:55
lardmanah, good to hear00:56
lardmanhave you documented it anywhere?00:56
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ssvblardman: I posted a link to this channel, I'm still experimenting with its performance00:57
lardmanssvb: Am heading for bed now, but will have a look at the channel log tomorrow for your link00:57
ssvblardman: right now I'm verifying if instructions cache is enabled on DSP00:57
lardmanssvb: lower level than I've been looking at; I look forward to seeing what you find00:58
ssvblardman: because I suspect that it might be not enabled00:58
lardmangot to go; will have a chat with you in the week00:58
lardmannight all00:58
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DekaritaeMy N800 is stuck in a reboot loop again01:06
DekaritaeImmediately after installing VIM and EmelFM201:06
GeneralAntillesYou did something wrong, then.01:08
DekaritaeI rebooted so that the change I made to matchbox.defs would take effect01:09
JaffaSo your N800 is stuck is a reboot loop again, immediately after *editing the window manager's configuration files*. Nothing to do with the application's you've installed.01:10
DekaritaeI edited them based on a post on the forums, which led me to assume that other people have tried this and had it succeed01:10
JaffaDekaritae: disable the lifeguard reset using a flasher tool, fix the problem in matchbox.defs and try again.01:10
JaffaDekaritae: pff, 1) never make changes blind, 2) never believe anything you read in a forum ;-)01:11
DekaritaeThis is making me appreciate Palm much more01:11
JaffaWhere you couldn't hack around with the window manager?01:11
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DekaritaeI just changed the DIALOGMODE=static to DIALOGMODE=free01:12
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JaffaAnd how would you do that on Palm? You said you appreciated Palm a lot more after this.01:12
* Jaffa 's experience of Palm OS was so brief and painful, I'm really interested.01:13
DekaritaeIn the sense that if you fuck up and render the device unbootable, you can completely restore from backups01:13
GeneralAntillesYou can do that here, too.01:13
acydlordfunny, you can do that on the tablet too01:13
DekaritaeRather than backed up user files and having the reinstall from packages01:13
GeneralAntillesWoo, tar!01:14
acydlordmy n810 backs up everything to one of my servers twice a day01:14
GeneralAntillesPalm had to do it that way because running out of battery meant you lost everything01:14
GeneralAntillesor going through airport security01:14
DekaritaeWhich I can't do because that thing next door is blotting my wifi01:14
GeneralAntillesUh, change channels?01:14
DekaritaeI've done that before01:14
acydlordor plug in the usb cable like you have to do with a palm device01:15
DekaritaeChannel 11 allows for wi-fi signal _sometimes_01:15
DekaritaeEverything else is blot01:15
acydlordpick up a mimo router01:15
DekaritaeI'm thinking USB ethernet01:15
acydlordor buy some copper mesh and make a faraday cage01:16
kkrustyis there any mplayer frontend with decent support for playlists?01:16
DekaritaeGrr, I cannot download 2008HE from Nokia because it says my WLAN ID is invalid01:17
acydlordjust do what we did to get os2008 earlier01:19
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DekaritaeFook it I will just flash it regular and be done with it01:20
DekaritaeI am taking this as a sign that I should make a real computor if I wish to fook with linux01:21
acydlordif you want to fully use linux, yes01:21
kkrustyacydlord: hmm no playlists for flv files01:22
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kkrustyis there a secret pact to treat that question with silence? :)01:31
summatusmentisis there a vnc viewer for maemo?01:32
summatusmentislol, alright alright01:33
summatusmentisI didn't knwo if there was one in extras or nt01:33
GeneralAntillesNo, somebody needs to push that to Extras.01:33
acydlordkkrusty, i didnt know that was a question, looked like a statement to me :p and to be honest, i've never even bothered to play flv files on my tablet01:34
JaffaWe've not really got a clear policy on whether it's acceptable for a semi-actively maintained application to be pushed to extras by anyone not involved in its development. I suppose dropping the author "mind if I upload it" wouldn't get a "no" response, but then we're in the "what if the person who uploaded it, doesn't ever upload a newer version" situation.01:34
JaffaOh, that gets us back to my ideas on auto-updating extras when the author releases something.01:35
GeneralAntilless/somebody/the guy that put it together/01:35
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: No, the guy that put it together needs to push that to Extras.01:35
JaffaBetter :-)01:35
JaffaAnyway, sleep. I already think I'm going to be dealing with work email and drinking a Red Bull on the train tomorrow morning.01:36
GeneralAntillesWhat I actually meant to say was, "No, somebody needs to get the author to push that to Extras."01:36
kkrustyacydlord: the FE that comes with mplayer seems to be able to play flv files. If canola is just a frontend then I guess its simply an act of allowing flvs through the filter01:36
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summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: that's awesome :) OS X on my n810 :-D01:40
GeneralAntillesSlow though01:40
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GeneralAntilles Where do people come up with this shit?01:40
summatusmentisyes, but it'll be nice if I need to get something from my laptop and I'm not near it01:40
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summatusmentiswhy is that unreasonable?01:42
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GeneralAntillesWell, Fennec is still in "broken as shit" mode01:42
GeneralAntillesand Nokia isn't licensing Opera anymore01:42
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summatusmentisok, so licensing issues might get in the way, but the poster did have an 'both browsers would need to be not in alpha mode' disclaimer01:43
summatusmentisbut I tend to agree that broser choice is good(not that I care, I like microb)01:44
* sinak gn ppl01:44
GeneralAntillesWell, getting Opera for OS2008 costs $$$01:44
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GeneralAntillesSo, the first question to answer is, why the hell would Nokia pay for Opera to be ported and licensed when they're already paying for a perfectly good browser?01:45
GeneralAntillesFennec is still a ways from actually being usable.01:45
GeneralAntillesBesides, at boot up?01:45
GeneralAntillesYou have plenty of browser choice01:45
GeneralAntillesbut it's stupid to present that choice to clueless users at boot up.01:45
GeneralAntillesThey're just going to pick a random choice01:45
GeneralAntillesor maybe the one they recognize01:45
summatusmentiswell, they do a 'what's your cell privder' dialog at first boot, with no exlanation01:47
summatusmentisnot any idfferent really01:47
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GeneralAntillesYes it is01:47
summatusmentisurgh... laggy interwebs01:47
GeneralAntillesthat question has a clear answer.01:47
GeneralAntillesWhat cellphone provider do you use?01:47
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summatusmentissure, but there's no reason given01:47
GeneralAntillesIt's a flawed analogy.01:48
GeneralAntillesand a stupid idea. ;)01:48
summatusmentiswell, flawed analogy, maybe, more config options at first boot, maybe not01:49
lcukbest reason not to: space considerations.  BUT i would also like the choice to be available to user via installation from extras or something01:49
summatusmentiss/maybe not/maybe not a stupid idea/01:49
infobotsummatusmentis meant: well, flawed analogy, maybe, more config options at first boot, maybe not a stupid idea01:49
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summatusmentislcuk: touche01:49
GeneralAntillesWell, Opera's never going to happen unless Nokia pays up01:49
GeneralAntilleswhich they have no reason to do.01:49
GeneralAntillesand Fennec is still a long ways from being usable.01:49
GeneralAntillesSo the point is pretty moot.01:50
summatusmentiswrt browsers, yes01:50
GeneralAntillesWhich is the point we're discussing.01:50
lcukwould a webkit based browser work on here?01:50
GeneralAntilleslcuk, sure, but you'd have to get somebody to actually code it up.01:50
GeneralAntillesYou can already use WebKit + Epiphany01:50
lcukor find one of the cheap and cheerful test versions im sure someone has made throughout the internets01:51
GeneralAntillesThey both just suck right now.01:51
GeneralAntillesSo offering WebKit/Epiphany to new users at bootup would be retarded.01:51
GeneralAntillesThey pick that and their browser works like shit.01:51
lcukno i agree GeneralAntilles 100% with you01:51
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lcukasking the user is pointless01:51
GeneralAntillesThe choice should be: decent-quality browsers are available to be installed from Extras01:52
lcukbut if the user wants something else they could see just how bad they are (and it might be site specific) whether they work for them01:52
GeneralAntillesand the user can pick their preferred browser just like on a desktop machine.01:52
GeneralAntillesNokia needs to revamp the dbus file handing a bit01:52
GeneralAntillesSo you can choose default applications to handle certain types of files01:53
lcukthats simply the default file explorer01:53
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lcuk"simply" is relative of course ;)01:54
DekaritaeSo after restoring from backup. It opens application manager, and installs nothing01:57
DekaritaeHow do I restore apps01:57
GeneralAntillesWhat OS version?01:58
GeneralAntillesIt's somewhere in the menu.01:58
DekaritaeI  see nothing relevant01:59
GeneralAntillesLook harder02:00
GeneralAntillesit's definitely in there.02:00
DekaritaeOn the sidebar I have two Web navigators and no Contacts02:00
GeneralAntillesEr, Application manager menu.02:00
GeneralAntillesYou definitely need to re-enable Extras first.02:00
DekaritaeAh yes02:00
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acydlordwoops, soft reset explorer02:10
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DekaSo what is the method by which to back up everything, including changes to system03:37
DekaAnd the same method by which to restore?03:38
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Toba_restoring is another matter.03:39
Toba_I think.03:39
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summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: how do you untar to the internal flash? just over your current system?04:15
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GeneralAntillesJust boot from something else then mount it and untar over it.04:18
summatusmentisfair enough04:18
GeneralAntillesOr just boot from a card04:18
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lcukwould the device be able to boot over the network? any idea what would be required to allow this04:29
summatusmentishmm... maybe over a usb network...04:30
GeneralAntillesI'm sure you could set something up.04:30
GeneralAntillesBetter to just boot the initfs for these purposes, though.04:31
summatusmentiswill initfs allow access to the wireles card?04:31
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lcukyer, but im thinking something along the lines of insert emergency recovery mem stick04:31
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lcuksomething a normal user could download and prepare quite easily04:32
summatusmentislike a chroot?04:33
lcukwell that would generally need a running system to root into04:34
lcuki suppose its just stick to what works: flash04:34
summatusmentislol, there should be a better option... you know?04:34
lcuklowest common demominator, it should cure all ills without a major incident report04:34
GeneralAntillesFlashing a tablet is a helluva lot faster than reinstalling the OS on my computer.04:35
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summatusmentisyeah, but generally you can repair the OS on your computer04:35
lcukperhaps its just the location here (people coming in with problems) but even regular users have to reflash far too often04:35
lcukand the most offending reason is "keeps restarting"04:36
GeneralAntillesMeh, you can fix your tablet, too.04:36
GeneralAntillesPart of it is the watchdogs are a little TOO vigilant.04:37
lcuknot really, there is essentially no "safe mode" startup04:37
GeneralAntillesYes there is.04:37
GeneralAntillesFlash a real initfs04:37
GeneralAntillesBoom safemode04:37
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lcukcan joe windows user (still 95% of population?) do that with the flasher?04:38
GeneralAntillesMeh, what would they do with a safemode anyway?04:38
lcukbackup their files04:38
GeneralAntillesBoot it up and fix the Matchbox config file they messed up?04:38
lcukit gives a user a chance to not lose everything04:38
lcukthis machine is meant to be a replacement computer: ie one which CREATES data instead of just consuming it.  i know ive got valuable data i would not want to lose stored on here04:39
GeneralAntillesIt's not meant to be anything of the sort. ;)04:40
GeneralAntillesIt's an internet tablet04:40
newmaemouserl  am trying to fix the potential corruption issue on the n810 but can't seem to find the memory card in the file manager.  I'm probably missing something simple, I know.04:40
GeneralAntillesit's meant to browse the web, IM and email04:40
fysaI have officially "switched."04:41
fysaJust bought my first real Mac..  17" MBP04:42
GeneralAntillesfysa, download Quicksilver first:
fysaQuicksilver is pretty cool.  I used it for a couple of months on my "Hackintosh." :P04:43
GeneralAntillesI can't use OS X without Quicksilver.04:44
fysaI think QS would make a nice handheld interface.04:44
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summatusmentis- all the keyboard shortcuts04:46
summatusmentisI've never fully learned QS04:46
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fysaer, with a decent keyboard. ;)04:46
fysaand plug-ins.04:47
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fysai.e, "send .. to .. flickr"04:47
summatusmentisthat's true, I like the iTunes plug in04:47
fysacould be faster than launching apps/waiting for GUI/then typing04:47
GeneralAntillesYou guys should check out Menuet for iTunes control.04:47
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fysatrying Linkinus..  seems nice so far.  can aggregate channels and supports growl.04:49
fysabut $2004:49
GeneralAntillesLinkinus isn't up to snuff yet04:49
GeneralAntillesJust go with Colloquy04:50
fysaI would end up with X-Chat Aqua if this doesn't fly.. :/04:50
summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: what does menuet do that QS iTnues doesn't?04:50
GeneralAntillesMenuet does the growl notifications, and playback control04:50
GeneralAntillesQS does the library searching04:50
summatusmentisQS has a plugin that'll do play back control, and growl notifications(I think)04:51
GeneralAntillesQS didn't work for me for some reason04:51
GeneralAntillesSo I bought Menuet04:51
GeneralAntillesso meh :D04:51
* timelyx shrugs04:56
timelyxi only use ~4 apps on my mac04:56
timelyxi don't need quicksilver04:56
GeneralAntillesYou don't make very good use of your computer. :P04:56
summatusmentisMy mac is my only computer, so I use it all the time04:56
timelyxit runs firefox, camino, snak, safari, and xterm04:57
timelyxis there more to a computer?04:57
timelyxok, that's 5 things04:57
GeneralAntilles3 of them browsers?04:57
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: 3 of them browsers.04:57
timelyxyeah well...04:57
* timelyx goes back to burying articles04:58
GeneralAntillesSpite! Spite! Spite!04:58
* timelyx grumbles04:59
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timelyxif i accidentally click on a heart, it's such a pain to bury04:59
GeneralAntillesSeeing the single hate on the logo contest announcement the other day made me lol.04:59
timelyxcan you find out who did that?04:59
GeneralAntillesIf you check the logs here05:00
timelyxwhich server is it?05:00
* timelyx has an account on maemo-midgard05:01
GeneralAntillesThe "hate" disappeared.05:01
timelyxi get points for thumbing articles, so why shouldn't i? :)05:03
timelyxi see 4/1 for maemo logo05:04
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GeneralAntillesIt's 5/0 here. . . . :\05:05
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timelyxoh darn05:07
timelyxi need to make a new icon05:07
timelyxswift has a logo from the old group05:07
timelyxi'll probably use the Ma emo icon i posted05:07
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GAN800Ugh, I think itT may finally have reached the end of its usefulness.05:50
summatusmentismaybe you should just be more tolerant :)05:51
GAN800It's just be total shit for the past few weeks.05:51
* GAN800 points the wife beater finger at summatusmentis 05:51
acydlordi've noticed it's become a pool of people who dont know how to google lately05:51
GAN800Yeah, it's gotten particularly bad.05:52
acydlordor assinine requests like the one you linked earlier05:52
summatusmentisGAN800: do you use the iphone browser agent?05:54
GAN800I did for a while, but got tired of reduced-functionality browsing.05:54
GAN800I might if it weren't an all-or-nothing proposition.05:55
GAN800I'd like to use iPhone for google search, but not for some other stuff.05:55
acydlordi use the brightkite and weather underground iphone pages05:55
acydlordbut those dont require the browser agent05:56
summatusmentisgmail is sort of hard to use on the normal user-agent, as is facebook05:56
GAN800lol facebook05:56
summatusmentisthat's the only reason I ask. That's probably more due to slow network connection at my house05:57
GAN800That got lame when they let my sister get an account. :P05:57
acydlordlol gmail as well05:57
summatusmentis<3 gmail05:57
GAN800Modest for gmail05:57
acydlordyeah, modest is for mail05:57
acydlordfacebook ruined ut when they released an api05:57
summatusmentisis modest usable? the chinook mail client I tried failed hard at large inboxes05:57
GAN800That's osso-email05:58
acydlordthe only reason i used facebook was because it didnt have all the clutter and seizure inducing features that myspace has05:58
GAN800acydlord, that too.05:58
GAN800and now it does!05:58
acydlordand now i just downright hate the fact of those style of social networking sites05:58
GAN800I just wish I could delete my account.05:58
summatusmentisGAN800: modest doesn't fail w/ large inboxes?05:58
acydlordthey are useless for anything other than friendwhoring05:58
summatusmentisyou can, on facebook05:58
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acydlordmodest loaded my spam box05:59
acydlordwhich was about 600 items05:59
GAN800Depends on how large, but it's a lot better than osso-email05:59
summatusmentisacydlord: I disagree. Useful for people who try to keep in contact w/ people all over the country05:59
GAN800It did fine with my 4000-message gmail account05:59
acydlordi keep contact with people all over the country05:59
acydlordwe kept contact with people all over the country just fine before social networking, back when people had their own web pages06:00
summatusmentisacydlord: ok, well, useful if those people check their facebook more than their email :)06:00
acydlordya know, when the people using the internet actually knew how to use the internet06:00
summatusmentisyeah yeah, kids these days :)06:01
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GAN800Somebody remind me the irc url format, I don't feel like googling. :p06:04
GAN800Right, thanks.06:06
* GAN800 is trying to kick-start the agenda for the next maemo-meeting.06:06
acydlordfun times06:07
GAN800Ugh, cable's out back home again . . . no Adult Swim for me. :(06:09
acydlordmy cables ben out for about a month and a half06:09
GAN800using my N800 like my computer just makes me giddy.06:09
acydlordcable company decided to charge me for a fee that was waived about 7 years ago06:09
GAN800You boycotting the bill? :P06:09
acydlordand now they are charging me $250 a pop for my digital recievers even though my account is still active06:10
GAN800Good gos06:10
acydlordyeah, the charges were waived because they let someone move my phone service i had through them and the person racked up a large long dist bill06:10
GAN800Build yourself a catapult, fill the cable boxes with gas and lob them at their hq. :p06:10
acydlordi should put some thermite in them and wire it to the transformers so when they plug them in they'll melt06:11
GAN800What company?06:11
acydlordcox communications06:13
acydlordand unfortunately they have quite the monopoly on appartment complex networking out here06:14
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acydlordas soon as wimax is out here, if it isnt horribly cripled like sprint's evdo now is i'll probably just use it06:15
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summatusmentissprint's evdo is horribly crippled?06:15
summatusmentisjohnx: hi hi06:15
acydlordthey just slapped us with a 5gb a month cap06:15
acydlordand for people actually using their aircard and DUN plans thats pretty crummy06:16
summatusmentisonly for the aircard and PAM plans, right?06:16
acydlordi think they should have applied it to all the stupid phone as everything but a phone things06:16
* summatusmentis is probably going sprint SERO w/ pdanet06:17
GAN800Woo, johnx.06:17
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johnxhi GAN800 :D06:17
acydlordi havent checked yet to see if it applies to the sero accounts06:17
summatusmentisaccording to forums, it shouldn't apply to power vision06:17
acydlordbut last i heard they were just switching all the sero account to the "unlimited everything" plan06:17
summatusmentiswhere'd you hear that?06:18
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acydlordfrom the girl at the sprint store over here06:18
summatusmentisoh... so I should jump then... "unlimited everything" plan == unlimited minutes?06:19
summatusmentisI should decide either tomorrow or the next day, leaving town06:20
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johnxso, GAN800, did I miss anything important the last couple days?06:26
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* summatusmentis 06:27
acydlordyeah, unlimited minutes and everything included in the power vision plan06:29
summatusmentisacydlord: awesome... that'd be cool06:29
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acydlordi may switch to that since i can get an app for my centro that will use the power vision data for a dun connection06:30
summatusmentisthat's what I think I'm gona do06:30
acydlordso i wouldnt have to worry about the PaM limits06:30
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dmzanyone here use canola2 and know how to create playlists for it?06:30
acydlordaudio or video?06:31
acydlordcause canola just pulls my m3u lists from my music directory06:31
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dmzit does? so basically have a playlist named m3u w/lists of what's in there & it should work?06:34
acydlordyeah, should06:34
dmzand in the file is just one line for fullpath/filename right?06:35
dmzok i'll give it a try06:36
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RST38hWe no longer accept the term thermobaric [for the AGM-114N] as there is no internationally agreed definition, said an MoD spokesman. We call it an enhanced blast weapon.06:58
RST38h(The redefinition has allowed British forces to use the weapons legally)06:58
derfThis is not really the place for politics.06:59
RST38hderf: It's not politics, it's =)06:59
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RST38hGA: When is the next one?07:45
RST38hOh, there is a timeframe vaguely mentioned07:46
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GeneralAntillesWell, we don't have an agenda and we haven't talked to Quim.07:47
GeneralAntillesIt's entirely dependent on getting an agenda together then talking to Quim.07:47
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, if you've got some topic and agenda ideas, please add them. :D07:57
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RST38hGA: I am afraid there isn't much I would like to ask Quim about08:01
RST38hMost of my questions have been answered during the last meeting and in the following discussion / bugzilla comments / etc.08:02
RST38hGA: Btw, the meanwhile guy has got into a comic:
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kylechi everyone... is having any connectivity problems right now?09:26
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GeneralAntillesIt's not really known for its reliability, though.09:27
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kylechmm... it could be something with my cellular provider.  i don't have access to real internet right now09:28
kylecbut i've been having trouble installing anything out of maemo extras09:28
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kyleci'm getting 2-3% packet loss and several second latencies- could that cause problems with application manager you think?09:29
GeneralAntillesSeems like a possibility. ;)09:29
GeneralAntillesExtras is working fine here.09:29
qwerty12Application Manager isn't known for it's reliablity in the first place and adding a dodgy connection to the mix isn't going to help.09:29
GeneralAntillesMeh, this isn't one of its reliability issues.09:30
kylecok, i'm going to see if i can share internet from my laptop to my n810 so i can debug while i'm online here09:32
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AStormok, now, who has built an n810 kernel with working dvfs?09:34
AStormthat, and possibly w/o some devious tsc2005 bug09:34
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Stskeepsanyone has a opinion on google web toolkit-based web applications on the n800 browser (os2008)?09:58
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kylecdoes it not try dhcp when connecting to an ad-hoc network?09:59
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kyleci would set up the connection manually, but i can't become root :)09:59
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kylecah, i just found advanced connection settings10:02
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kylecok, now i'm just curious why this part isn't working... anyone ever gotten an ad-hoc network working?10:15
GeneralAntillesYes, lots of peopel.10:15
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Yes, lots of people.10:15
kyleci set the ip, router and dns manually, it says it's connected to the network i created...10:15
kylecbut afterwards i don't even see the dns settings in /etc/resolv.conf10:16
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GeneralAntillesHey, keesj.10:16
kyleci can't ping the ip from my laptop10:16
kylecand when i tried to use a dhcp server on the laptop, i didn't see any dhcp requests while connecting10:17
kylecargh, iwconfig would help10:17
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kylecoh weird... the ad-hoc network i set on the laptop shows up in the connection list, but as a WEP network??10:25
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kylecalright, none of this makes any sense so i'm going to just blame it on my crap laptop10:28
kylecbe back shortly10:28
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hrwdoes someone with Diablo is able to use OMWeather?10:57
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rm_youjohnx: I misses j00 >_>11:15
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acydlordYay, nokia bought plazes.com11:25
acydlordjust had to pop in here to say that cause it made me happy when i heard.11:25
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timelesswhy did that make you happy?11:36
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kylecfigured out my issue... I didn't realize that application manager stores files to the internal memory card11:40
kylecmy vfat filesystem on there was corrupted11:40
timelessdid application manager's log window tell you that? :)11:40
kylecyeah :)11:40
kyleci even knew about the corruption, which made me feel extra stupid11:41
kylecbut previously it was limited to files in one directory11:41
kyleci just had to reformat using the usb cable11:41
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kyleca tricky one though, cause even flashing the device doesn't fix it11:42
timelesslast i checked file manager was supposed to let you reformat mmcs11:42
timelessat least in diablo11:42
timelesswhat are you running?11:42
kylecchinook i think?  what's diablo?11:43
kylecoh yeah, you can do that from file manager11:43
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kylecoops, my cell phone booted me11:50
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hrwtimeless: is testserver in diablo initfs required to boot?11:53
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hrwok - got answer from other source. it can12:00
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johnxhrw, can be removed?12:00
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hrwjohnx: can12:01
hrw600K freed12:01
ranithi, do we have openGL support for maemo . .. i am using qt4 but cann't find support for openGL i.e libqt4-opengl12:02
johnxranit, nope12:02
hrwranit: only mesa (software)12:02
ranitoh no12:02
johnxyou could compile mesa I guess...but it would be real slo12:02
hrwjohnx: but even with initfs stripped and diablo kernel it does not boot.12:02
johnxhrw, qwerty12 hacked up a diablo initfs to make it boot12:03
hrwwill have to wait for him12:03
johnxIIRC, he didn't see an advantage except being able to use some of the Nokia testing tools12:03
hrwjohnx: with chinook kernel/initfs and diablo rootfs I do not get charging12:04
johnxah, I do12:04
johnxfor charging it doesn't seem to matter what rootfs you use12:04
johnxit stills charges when I use debian as a rootfs...12:05
kylecwondering if there are any docs around on how to go about testing diablo?12:07
johnxkylec, anyone outside Nokia who has "diablo" doesn't have it through official channels12:08
kylecoh, i see12:08
kyleci just saw the "4.1" directory in one of the repos and figured12:09
kyleclooking forward to it!12:09
johnxI think we all are :)12:09
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floriangood morning12:32
johnxmornin' :)12:33
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johnx'night rm_you :D12:42
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lardmanoops, damn copy & paste12:45
johnxwow...that rebel xt sure holds up well at ISO 1600 O_o12:47
ranitgreat lardman, thanx12:48
lardman~lart FF for either not copying, or not pasting12:49
* infobot plops FF into a giant vat of herring for either not copying, or not pasting12:49
lardmanactually that may be a WinXP fault12:49
lardman~lart WinXP for exsiting12:50
* infobot calls WinXP on the phone ... the lights are on but nobody's home for exsiting12:50 I was about to blame interactions between the X11 cut buffer and application clipboard :P12:50
lardmanI was wondering about a bridge camera rather than an SLR, hence the random link inserted :)12:50
lardmanjohnx: I must admit I'm not fond of Gnome's requirement for something to remain highlighted to be able to copy it (e.g. in gedit)12:51
lardmanbut perhaps there's some setting I can change12:51
johnxlardman, use ctrl+c, ctrl+v instead12:52
johnxthat should solve that12:52
lardmanI quite like the highlight copying though! :)12:52
johnxchoose one :P12:52
lardmanI shouldn't really have to though, should I?12:54
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johnxwell, with ctrl+c/v you can un-hilight the text, but the X11 cut buffer is always the same as the hilighted text12:55
lardmanbut the cut buffer is cleared if I unhighlight the text12:55
johnxthat's what I mean12:55
johnxit's *supposed* to do that, AFAIK12:55
johnxno hilighted text = no cut buffer12:56
lardmanI seem to remember it would keep that previously highlighted text until I highlighted something else12:56 you mean something changed?12:56
johnxthat is different then12:56
lardmanor perhaps the problem with gedit is that it doesn't insert at the mouse pointer pos'n but rather at the cursor pos'n (i.e. it inserts over the highlighted text)12:57
lardmanjohnx: I think so, but can't really remember as it just used to work12:57
lardmanbut certainly the not-inserting-at-mouse-pointer-pos'n problem happens in gedit for me12:57
johnxhmm...I really have no idea what's up12:58
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lardmanno worries, I was just getting it off my chest :)13:03
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L0cutusis ok to go to, check all the repository and add all to n800 ?13:16
L0cutusor is the bad way ? ;)13:16
johnxprobably not the best way13:17
johnxbetter to add repositories as you need them13:17
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johnxalso, make sure they're for the right version of your OS13:17
L0cutusyes OS200813:17
johnxyeah, but some of the repos in the OS2008/chinook list are for OS2007/bora13:18
johnxthus, why it's not a good idea to add them13:18
L0cutusha ok13:18
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L0cutusTemp fix for broken Chinook13:24
L0cutusmust be added ?13:24
Stskeeps'lo johnx13:24
johnxdon't add13:24
johnxStskeeps, hi13:24
johnxsorry I've been gone the last couple days O_o13:24
Stskeepsjohnx: hehe, it's fine, been reading for exam and playing with debian :)13:25
johnxgood deal13:25
johnxI've been lying in bed with a fever, then dragging myself to work and dropping right into bed when I got back13:25
johnxbetter now though :)13:25
hrwis there a plan to switch to autoconf 2.60+ for maemo?13:26
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hrwon my n810 with diablo battery applet does not display even - it only react at press - anyone got it?13:41
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macoutehrw: i think its a known bug on n81013:43
macoutemine applet doesnt work either13:43
hrwmacoute: and no charging at all too?13:44
macoutehowever, it gets the battery meter right after reboots13:44
hrwbtw - someone who admin itt is here?13:44
macoutehrw: it does charge, but it seems it doesnt13:44
macouteso the meter doesnt animate while charging13:44
hrwmacoute: here applet render as empty space13:45
macoutehrw: oh? on my side it shows the situation of battery when booted, so if i fully charge and then boot my nit, its going to show fuilly charged until the battery dies13:46
hrwhere all it say (on charger or not) is 'battery low'13:47
hrwwhen I press empty space13:47
hrwwould have to report it a bit later13:47
macoutehrw: is there /proc/acpi/bat0/info or something like it available?13:49
macouteso you could check the state of the battery13:49
johnxmacoute, nope13:49
macoutejohnx: then how to check the battery?13:50
johnxdirectly from the retu adc13:50
hrwmacoute: its not x86 to have acpi13:50
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johnxmacoute, look up kcbatt13:50
lardmanhrw: I had battery issues when I flashed the diablo kernel13:50
lardmanhrw: Are you sure the Chinook kernel has flashed ok?13:50
macoutehrw: yah, but something like it13:51
hrwFlashing kernel... done.13:52
hrwlardman: Linux (none) 2.6.21-omap1 #2 Fri Dec 7 11:17:13 EET 2007 armv6l unknown13:54
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lardmanfair enough13:55
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andre___...the complaint that the kernel is compiled without CONFIG_CRYPTO is obsolete since IT2007, isn't it?14:05
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hrwhm.. another missing library ;(14:29
hrw~curse osso-ic-dev14:30
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, osso-ic-dev !14:30
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lardmanwhat does it do?14:32
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hrwlack source14:33
hrwlibconic require osso-ic-dev but repo lack it..14:33
hrwlast version is from bora14:33
lardmanprobably just an oversight then14:33
hrw~shoot that one who configured sorting on too14:35
* infobot shoots that one who configured sorting on too in the ear with a cork gun!14:35
johnxheh...who doesn't like sort-by-size?14:36
hrwespecially in dir with only dirs?14:36
johnxseriously though, it's going to be fixed...14:36
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hrwjohnx: I know14:37
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Xamuskso, what is used by default nowadays? scratchbox1 or 2?14:38
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hrwOE? Poky?14:38
johnxby default, scratchbox114:38
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johnxbut you're free to choose, of course14:39
XamuskI intend to use esbox plugin for eclipse14:39
* lcuk wonders if the world exploded or was it just freenode servers entering orbit?14:40
XamuskI wish I could just apt-get it14:41
* hrw wants mirrors for
crashanddieXamusk, then why don't you ?14:42
Xamuskcrashanddie, I'm still looking for scratchbox1 repos... ubuntu only has scratchbox214:42
XamuskI guess in some minutes I'll just use scratchbox2 anyway14:43
crashanddieXamusk, or just get an eclipse package, and update from there ?14:43
Xamuskcrashanddie, how? I already do have eclipse installed (I already use pydev), but not esbox14:43
crashanddieXamusk, get the repo where esbox is hosted, add it, and you should be able to install it from there14:44
Xamuskcrashanddie, you mean for eclipse or for apt?14:44
crashanddieXamusk, eclipse14:44
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jjoXamusk: something wrong with the repos?14:48
Xamuskjjo, for apt or eclipse? I'm still installing the eclipse plugin14:49
Xamuskfor esbox14:49
jjooh sorry14:50
* Jaffa thinks is his new favourite14:51
lcukjaffa, simple and effective :) hows your 1st day back going14:52
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X-FadeI really dislike all the ae that are attached. As that is not the url at all :)14:52
lcukx-fade what about the maem oo rg one (the one with glasses) ;)14:54
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Jaffalcuk: quieter than I was expecting, it seems I'm not indispensable :)14:56
AStormJaffa: blah, weak14:56
AStormand needs AA14:57
hrwI have to admit that I did not thought that in 2008 I will have to edit code to make it build with gcc414:58
JaffaAStorm: it's a nice evolution of the moebius strip concept.14:58
AStormJaffa: hehe, as if anyone links maemo with moebius or anything14:58
Xamuskis there any way to make an esbox project that allows me to use both python and C++ debuggers?14:59
Xamuskin the new projects dialog it seems to target python-only and C++-only projects15:00
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JaffaAStorm: indeed, but other than the butterfly none of the others grab me.15:02
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RST38hhrw: What broke it, specifically?15:03
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hrwRST38h: hildon-games-wrapper is non-gcc4 friendly and non-cross-compilable due to hardcoding CC15:15
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Xamuskwhy on hell does maemo need texlive, fontforge, etc?16:04
Xamuskwhen installing etch16:05
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pupnik810well my n810 survived a 3 foot drop onto concrete16:23
pupnik810no dents -- hit the edge with the metal stand16:23
pupnik810kudos nokia16:24
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pupnik810it's a truly sickening sound16:25
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sinakhello. How can I see the root folder of N800, on my pc?16:45
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lardmanafter installing the openssh packages16:46
summatusmentisor sshfs16:47
summatusmentisw/ the same requirement + FUSE on your pc16:47
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sinakok thank u :-)16:50
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pupnik810freenode reliable as ever17:10
pupnik810wheres solmumaha17:10
pupnik810wheres lcuk17:10
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pupnik810nicely dead here17:21
zuhSomeone did killall #maemo?17:22
johnxnetsplits kinda kill the mood17:22
pupnik810hey johnx seen solmumaha, lcuk or kotczarny?17:24
summatusmentisnot my mood17:24
johnxpupnik810, not in the last couple hours17:24
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pupnik810ok ty17:28
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lardmanhe's back17:35
Xamuskit appears esbox doesn't like scratchbox217:35
Xamuskis there any workaround?17:36
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sinakI want to add to mplayer/config this "subcp=ISO-8859-7". Is it correct?17:42
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lardmansinak: Does it work?17:44
sinaki didn't try it :-p17:44
sinakok i'll try it17:44
X-FadeOh no.. He's back!17:45
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sjgadsbyForever isn't as long as it once was, but at least the return is in plain text.17:46
X-FadeYeah, so the bot theory is out of the window ;)17:47
zapanybody got sbox2 running on anything else than debian-like systems?17:47
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lardmanX-Fade: perhaps someone tweaked the bot code?17:53
X-Fadelardman: AI ? :)17:53
lardmanNah, that would surely learn?!17:53
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lardmanIs there an OpenMax mailing list anywhere? All I can see is a "technical" forum, with a few questions and not many answers17:56
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johnxlardman, Is this the "openMAX" that's related to gstreamer?18:00
lardmanjohnx: yep18:01
johnxthere is a gstreamer-openmax list but it looks kinda...empty18:02
trickie|workwow darius is back, and he is either sober... or tried to make a sentence that make sense...18:02
derfI'd try asking in #gstreamer18:02
johnxtrickie|work, he does from time to time, just to keep us off balance18:03
* johnx looks more at the openmax stuff...wonders if the tablet is already using this code or not...18:04
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lardmanderf: ok, thanks18:05
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Robot101johnx: not atm, the tablets use OMAP2-specific libdspgateway stuff18:05
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johnxI just hit where they claim to have an openmax compatible h264 codec...that seems interesting18:06
johnxalso, aac18:06
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lardmanRobot101: I thought the openMAX stuff was above the implementation level, something between it and gstreamer18:07
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JaffaFor frack's sake, Darius is back.18:07
* Jaffa reads scrollback.18:07
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Robot101lardman: right, but it's not being used atm, the dsp*{src,sink} elements use the DSP directly18:08
lardmanJaffa: too much BSG?18:08
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lardmanRobot101: yep18:08
lardmanRobot101: I was looking to see if anyone Nokia related was popping up; I'd like to see seperate sinks and encoders18:08
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lardmanhrw: found the cause of your battery woes yet?18:10
hrwlardman: did not had time for it18:10
johnxI guess I'm confused then...are these openmax optimized libraries something that could just be dropped in or would things need to be rewritten to take advantage of them?18:11
X-Fadelardman: Maybe you can ping Felipe Contreras?18:11
hrwjohnx: some arm cpus have h264 in hardware18:12
lardmanhrw: Some omaps have h264 with hw assist; oh yeah, no IVA driver ;)18:13
johnxhrw, and I'm happy for them. :)18:13
hrwlardman: ST Nomadik cpus also have some audio/video encode/decode in hardware18:14
johnxbut the openmax stuff seems to be just ARM11 assembly18:14
lardmanjohnx: it could equally be hw assist wrapped in the correct api, and likewise DSP stuff in the correct api18:14
keesj+ neon coprocessor apparently18:14
lardmanX-Fade: ah, he works for Nokia18:16
hrwkeesj: neon is not armv7 (cortex cores)?18:16
X-Fadelardman: Yes, and he seems to be releasing some versions. So...18:17
johnxlardman, mainly I'm interested in how much effort it would be to use the optimized openmax stuff here:
johnxon our tablets18:17
lardmanX-Fade: I'll do some looking at what he's doing before bothering him, but thanks for the pointer18:17
X-Fadelardman: At least that is what I see on the gst-openmax list.18:18
keesjalright neon would only be a target for the OpenMAX stuff18:18
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lardman for an overview of GStreamer & OpenMAX18:24
zuhjohnx: note that DL is only providing tools to write codecs, not the codecs themselves... So you'd have to implement an IL component that uses the DL layer to take advantage of it in applications. So it really would be quite a bit of work (which I'd very much want to see someone doing).18:24
johnxzuh, ah, ok. now I get it18:24
zuhOf course if there's a codec that already uses DL, that's another story.18:24
zuhBut for example the bellagio IL components do not AFAIK.18:25
zuh(though I've never looked at them in detail)18:25
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Jaffalbt: harsh msg to maemo-dev, but fair, I think ;-)18:27
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hrwX-Fade: where I can find sources for extras repositiry?18:29
X-Fadehrw: What sources? Source packages?18:30
zuhlardman: Also, there's an #openmax on freenode where sometimes people working on OpenMAX implementations hang out. IIRC I've seen Felipe there too, but the channel is not too populated...18:31
lbtJaffa: and polite ?18:31
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lardmanInteresting, so the real advantage of openMAX over GStreamer is that OpenMAX components can directly connect to one another (e.g. on the DSP) without coming back to the ARM side as might be needed with GStreamer18:31
Jaffalbt: depends - it reads as polite, but I'm not sure it was meant politely ;-)18:32
lcukit was to the point18:32
* lbt looks around innocently...18:32
* lcuk finished his marathon vb run finally, now looks foreward to more vb \'^'/18:33
* lbt notices that lcukmisspelled 'finally releasing some code' as 'more vb'18:34
* lbt goes for coffee and cover18:34
* Jaffa grins18:34
* aquatix grins along18:35
lcukyou dont have to duck :)  just tell me how easy it is to put xvn or whatever is needed on my tablet so i can manage code to garage18:35
* lcuk has never used it18:35
lcuksvn ^18:35
zuhlardman: That and the loss of existing autoplugging ;)18:35
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aquatixi installed svn on my tablet, but checking out a repository gave errors about lock files or something18:35
zuh(when used directly, openmax through gstreamer is another matter of course)18:35
lbthmm, lcuk - I think you may want to look at http://wubi-installer.org18:36
lardmanzuh: I was really wondering why OpenMAX should be used with GStreamer, so yes, better together18:36
lcukwell that scuppers another damn fine idea - i do all dev work on the tablet18:36
johnxlcuk, there's an svn client packaged I believe18:36
lcukjohnx, it should be available in scratchbox shouldnt it? cant i just use that one18:37
lcukie copy to tablet18:37
johnxif it's an armel .dev, sure18:37
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johnxor you mean just copy binaries?18:37
johnxs/dev/deb of course18:38
lcukand nobody cares if my code blows up ?18:38
lcukwhen run on your machines18:38
johnxif it didn't we would feel ripped-off18:38
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johnxlike we didn't get a chance to really beta test18:38
lcuk:D excellent18:38
lbtyeah, we're bored with stable - sardine is dead...18:38
* lcuk wonders how many times he has been this close18:38
johnxlcuk, subversion is in extras :P18:39
lcuklardman, could i perhaps give you the missuses mail address, you could gently nudge her towards nudging me18:39
* lbt knocks lcuk with a feather18:39
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lcukjohnx, is it easy to use, ie once configured i can just essentially "upload"18:40
lcukor whatever it is thats needed18:41
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X-Fadelardman, felipec: You guys should talk to each other ;)18:41
johnxerr...not much experience with svn except for anon, sorry, I couldn't tell you :(18:41
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lardmanX-Fade: yeah, I just saw that felipec was the man in question18:41
* lardman having problems with irc nicks vs real names as ever :)18:42
lcuk:) blind leading the blind,  can i screw up garage by sending wrong commands to it18:42
lbtsvn is pretty simple18:42
felipecuh? what's up?18:42
lardmanfelipec: I was asking about OpenMAX18:42
X-Fadelcuk: Yes you can, but we can always wipe it completely for you ;)18:42
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* lcuk will have to go readup18:43
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lardmanfelipec: specifically about seperating DSP filters/decoders/etc. from sinks18:44
lcuki cant now - at work18:44
felipeclardman: ah, then yes, I'm the guy :)18:44
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lardmanfelipec: So, is that the plan, are you moving to rewriting the DSP tasks as OpenMAX components?18:44
felipeclardman: you mean the current gstreamer-dsp elements?18:44
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lardmanfelipec: No, I presume they will remain as they are, but for the omap35xx for example? ;)18:45
lardmanOr any possible future platform, whatever form it might take18:45
felipeclardman: well, I'm not allowed to talk about Nokia plans, but we are going to use OpenMAX, yes18:46
lardmanwill be good to be able to use other people's DSP work18:46
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lcukfelipec, even though you cannot discuss future plans, when you get near those making the future plans, please tell them to use every bit of silicon on the boards and if they cant release drivers so we can ;)18:47
felipeclardman: indeed, we also would like the dsp stuff more open18:47
lardmanand equally, I hope the one of the components will be a pcm sink, so anything the community might write could use it (rather than having to replace the DSP kernel/reverse engineer the api)18:47
hrwfun.. maemo-mapper --enable-legacy == build for chinook...18:47
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felipeclcuk: we do that :) there's progress, but it's painfully slow18:48
* lcuk does understand18:48
* lardman must chase Quim to ask about why IVA was not used in omap242018:49
lcuki would expect its cos its geared towards the framebuffer and not general memory?18:50
hrwlibgpsbt and libgpsmgr are closed?18:50
lardmanlcuk: No reason why it woudn't work afaict, and anyway, it's I think it's just a processing engine18:51
lcukyer, the api is visible in 2430 driver18:51
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lcuki think18:51
lardmanin the Ti kernel code?18:52
felipecI'm not an expert on that, but I would guess the fact that the dsp bridge is different from ti's bridge means there's porting/reimplementation required, since a lot of codecs needed to be supported that's not an easy task18:52
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lardmanfelipec: don't worry, it wasn't aimed at you :)18:53
lardmanfelipec: and thanks for the news on OpenMAX :)18:53
L0cutussomeone know if initfs_flasher does work with latest n800 firmware ? (RX-34_2008SE_2.2007.51-3_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin)18:53
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felipeclardman: no problem, there's #openmax if you are interested :)18:54
felipecalthough it's very silent lately18:55
lardmanok, I'll join and lurk, quietly :)18:55
lcukimprove the codec and the sound level will improve18:55
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hrw#  include "/usr/include/gpsbt.h"18:55
hrw~shoot maemo-mapper devs twice18:56
* infobot shoots maemo-mapper devs twice in the head with a frozen turkey cannon!18:56
lardmanwhat's up hrw?18:56
lardmanThat header should be available18:56
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pH5good afternoon18:56
* pH5 googles openmax18:56
hrwlardman: during cross-compilation?18:56
Jaffahrw: has the Maemo Mapper code progressed from one single .c file? ;-)18:57
hrwI love amount of gcc3 only code in maemo apps18:57
lardmanhrw: I mean you should be able to download it18:57
hrwJaffa: it does18:57
hrwlardman: the problem is in a path not in include name18:58
hrwJaffa: in ugly way - gcc4 does not like that code18:58
hrw| menu.c:98: error: static declaration of '_menu_view_goto_nextway_item' follows non-static declaration18:58
hrw| data.h:266: error: previous declaration of '_menu_view_goto_nextway_item' was here18:58
hrwI am used to that.. or rather was...18:58
hrw3 years ago18:59
lcukis that just not compiling  -wall or whatever it is18:59
lcukand i mean the devs up until you got it today18:59
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hrwlcuk: gcc3 allow for many things which gcc4.x does not19:01
lcukoooer, compiler gotten more paranoid19:02
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lardmanlcuk_afk: I've just checked again, and no mention of the IVA in the omap2430 kernel source; where did you think you'd seen it?19:11
lardmanhmm, perhaps there are some traces after all19:15
lardman~lart WinXP search tools19:15
* infobot nabs the moon and broadsides WinXP search tools with the sea of tranquility19:15
lardmanhome time19:15
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GeneralAntilles"If the community can get a decent quality filter in extras and produce a bunch19:16
GeneralAntillesof amazing applications as good as or better than the ones proviced by Nokia19:16
GeneralAntillesand commercial partners"19:16
johnxGeneralAntilles, then what happens? we just call it debian?19:16
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lbthmm - how about renaming 'extras' as 'maemo' or something....?19:19
lbtlinks the apps to the new 'community' concept?19:19
johnxif anyone is using the app manager as their primary tool for finding out about new software I'd be surprised19:19
GeneralAntillesjohnx, it's one of my tools. ;)19:19
lbtand instead of adding apps to the shipped N8xx, you provide a community link....19:19
johnxGeneralAntilles, but not your first I'd bet19:20
GeneralAntillesWe're not adding applications to the shipped devices, lbt.19:20
GeneralAntillesjohnx, depends.19:20
lbtbut you may then provide an 'enable maemo' function19:20
johnxI'm actually really happy with and the nice big "click to install" arrows19:20
lbtjust like the 'enable skype'19:21
GeneralAntilleslbt, that would be incredibly confusing.19:21
GeneralAntilles"Maemo" is the OS, basically.19:21
GeneralAntillesSo "enable Maemo" means enabled the OS?19:21
lbtis maemo the OS?19:21
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: So "enable Maemo" means enable the OS?19:21
johnxmaybe "Community" or "Contributed" but "Extras" seems fine really19:21
lbtI thought maemo was the community?19:21
*** mgeee has quit IRC19:22 is the community.19:22
GeneralAntilleslbt, read the branding page. ;)19:22
andre___yeah yeah, lots of things to define :)19:22
lbtOK - I take your point about confusion!!!19:23
GeneralAntillesOK, July 3rd is the outside deadline.19:23
GeneralAntillesWe need to get a topic and agenda together.19:23
lbtthe bug seemed to be that extras isn't enabled19:23
GeneralAntillesYes, that was my main purpose19:23
GeneralAntillesbut there are other ways around the hurdle of Extras being hard to find for new users.19:24
lbtand 'extras' is a weak word - I was suggesting that the device could be 'community enabled' - which may just enable extras and then throw users at your new clarification page :)19:24
GeneralAntillesWell, Ubuntu uses, what, "Universe"?19:25
lbtand, not knowing any better, I suggested maemo - maybe I should have suggested
lbtbut universe is the ubuntu equivalent19:25
johnxmeh...people don't care what the category is called19:26
lbtBut wouldn't it be nice to have an 'enable community' type button/icon? (label tbd)19:26
johnxI strongly believe that their first exposure to 3rd party software will be from or some other site19:27
johnxwhich will enable extras with a yes/no question anyways19:27
johnxand as we all know: users always click yes O_o19:27
lbtSo provide a button to enable extras (for dependencies) and point them at the browser19:27
GeneralAntillesjohnx, how many average users do you think actually make it there?19:27
lbtOK - it was just an idea...19:27
GeneralAntillesI know there's no direct links from the tablet.19:27
* sp3000 tends to dislike using 'community' as a name for a box (or a demarcated domain of another shape)19:28
johnxGeneralAntilles, that's where I would put your effort19:28
lbtsp3000: so I used the brand maemo (without fully grokking it)19:28
johnxgetting a link on tableteer or on something linked from the default homescreen19:28
* sp3000 also agrees with the content first approach that johnx has19:28
lbtjohnx: yes - that's the kind of thing I meant...19:28
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GeneralAntillesMeh, I'd rather do away with the whole "browsing for applications in the web browser"19:29
GeneralAntillesI'd much rather see that done in Application manager.19:29
sp3000rather than the 'hard-to-name blob' first approach :)19:29
lbtGeneralAntilles: too poor a UI...19:29
johnxGeneralAntilles, the app manager would have to come a long way very quickly for that to happen19:29
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johnxplus, a web search is just more likely to get you what you want19:30
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johnxthere's only so much data about apps in their descriptions19:30
lbtGeneralAntilles:  OK - but a nice rich browser window with a 'click to trigger the app mgr' ???19:30
johnxit doesn't matter how good your description is, if *the user* somehow doesn't use a search term in it19:31
lbtI tend to look at the app mgr and then google to find out what it is.19:31
johnxalso, users use the web browser *for everything*19:31
GeneralAntillesAnyway, I'm interested to see what will come with Fremantle.19:31
GeneralAntillesThe words "kinetic scrolling" were tossed around a bit. . . .19:31
lbtyeah - user's don't want aptitude... they want 'one click' to install this screenshot :)19:32
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johnxheh...a button that says "Make my tablet do what that guys tablet is doing!"19:33
lbtdo you have tags in the AppMgr?19:33
GeneralAntillesdebtags? Not yet19:33
GeneralAntillesIt's on the table, though.19:33
lbtwould suite a tablet ui I think...19:33
lbtheirarchy views need real estate.19:34
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Xamuskso, how can one make esbox work with scratchbox2?19:34
lbtjohnx: now, show me a screenshot of a tablet with an clickable imagemap on all the cool widgets...19:35
johnxlbt, that would actually be neat19:35
sp3000I think what I tend to miss most in appmrg is 1) incremental filtering search, 2) quick access to long desc, 3) what's new19:36
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lbtcould do...19:36
sp3000(3) is of course kinda hard19:36
lbtsp3000: yes - and I'd think tags is good for 1)19:37
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lbt3 comes from a dynamic tag based on age19:37
sp3000(2) is somewhat offset by the suckiness of many long descs, but at least it would expose it and motivate improvement19:37
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lbt(2) should have a mandatory garage link...19:37
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sp3000I suppose (3) could be roughly "updated or new <1mo"19:37
sjgadsbyI'd just like well-defined, standardized catagories.19:37
lbtincluding Nokia apps19:38
lbtsjgadsby: categories don't work19:38
sp3000sjgadsby: I tend to reflexively give up on categories as a bigger waste of time than just scanning through all ...19:38
sp3000the latter has a guarantee of completeness19:38
sp3000nobody can screw up "all" :)19:38
lbttags allow multiple category entries19:38
johnxI think tags might be better than categories19:38
lbtsp3000: that's what I always do too - I have to guess how many coffees the developer had had when he categorised it19:39
sjgadsbyEh, the tags in garage are terrible, so tags are no sure solution.19:40
* GeneralAntilles bangs his head on the wall.19:40
lbtand if it was a "when she categorised it" then gawd knows where it would end up... :D19:40
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I like the idea of a QA team that sorts stuff.19:40
GeneralAntillessince developers seem to be unable to figure it out.19:41
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tank-man"I deal with the god damn customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?"19:46
tank-manyour line reminded me of this quote from office space19:46
sinaki'm looking for firefox or opera for n800 but I can't find either of them19:47
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johnxsinak, look for "fennec" and "minefield", too interfaces to ff319:49
johnxalso, the builtin browser in OS2008 is based on ff319:49
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sinakok thank you!19:50
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GeneralAntillesSo, the first Maemo-meeting was really long, anybody else think we should set some sort of reasonable duration for it since they're going to be monthly anyway?19:54
GeneralAntilles1-2 hours19:54
johnxthat sounds fair19:54
johnxI felt sorry for how long Quim got stuck on the spot19:54
johnxplease tell me there will be some better moderation this time...19:55
johnxy'know...any moderation19:55
GeneralAntillesI'd really rather this be something Quim looks forward to rather than dreading. :D19:55
GeneralAntillesFreenode just muxed around with their services19:55
GeneralAntillesSo that may not be as possible as I'm hoping19:55
GeneralAntillesBut, basically, the channel will be moderated19:55
GeneralAntillesThere'll be 3-6 ops (eventually the council members + X-Fade, maybe others)19:56
GeneralAntilles3-strikes you're out19:56
GeneralAntillesEverybody is granted voice by default19:56
GeneralAntillesbut it'll be revoked if you use up your warnings.19:56
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johnxwell, it's worth a shot19:56
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johnxwe can always be more draconian if this doesn't work19:57
GeneralAntillesThe first meeting wasn't really so much an issue of people not following rules and being bad19:57
GeneralAntillesJust there being no clear structure. ;)19:57
GeneralAntillesI think things will go a lot more smoothly if there's structure in place.19:57
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johnxever the optimist19:57
GeneralAntillesAnyway, we need a topic and agenda pronto.19:57
GeneralAntillesEh, like you said, we can always make it stricter the next time around.19:58
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n800mi had no idea about the maemo fennec19:59
* n800m installing19:59
GeneralAntillesIt sucks.19:59
hrwsinak: but remember that os2008 browser is based on firefox 3.0 alpha - before speedups..19:59
n800myeah the version number is
n800mstill cool19:59
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* hrw wants 50KB/s from
sinaki see20:00
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, ping.20:00
* hrw is playing with building maemo software with non-maemo environments20:00
johnxhrw, me too actually20:01
johnxhrw, working on maemo mapper right now?20:01
hrwjohnx: no - I got other application for testing20:04
n800mhm fennec's not usable on n800 ;/20:04
johnxhrw, I'm curious :) which ones?20:04
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hrwjohnx: maemosweeper currently20:05
hrwjohnx: it got built, now playing with hildon-desktop20:05
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johnxI'm trying to dig into tinymail/modest...but it looks a little intimidating O_o20:06
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johnxbut no fun modem noises20:08
* GeneralAntilles files an angry bug.20:08
johnxheh...writing recipes for OE is kind of a pain...but it beats the heck out of writing deb packages O_o20:10
hrwjohnx: pain?20:10
johnxdealing with brain-dead build systems mostly20:10
hrwmost of maemo is "inherit autotools \n\nSRC_URI = 'location'"20:10
hrwjohnx: then it is pain with any system20:11
johnxand less pain than any other system I can think of20:11
hrwgtk_window_set_is_temporary is maemo-only function?20:11
hrwit is20:15
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RST38hAStorm: Cute, how these guys will make public statements but won't standardize on a binary driver interface for Linux20:36
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derfWhy on Earth would they do that?20:37
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RST38hderf: To let manufacturers provide drivers that will work on different Linuxes20:37
RST38hwithout recompilation20:38
hrwRST38h: you can write userspace drivers20:38
AStormRST38h: they make the statement so that there would be no binary drivers20:38
hrwRST38h: and that api was iirc declared as stable20:38
RST38hAStorm: oh, this is highly constructive =) I am sure their valiant statement will scare every manufacturer into providing source code20:38
RST38hhrw: Why don't Nokia et al use it then?20:39
hrwRST38h: because umac was written before they were invented?20:39
hrwRST38h: umac is 2.6.16 if not even older20:39
hrwuserspace drivers are 2.6.20+ iirc20:40
AStormthere's prism5420:40
AStormNokia could hire someone to bring it to Maemo20:40
hrwAStorm: what they would have to invest money if they have working driver?20:40
AStormsomeone did a part of SPI work20:40
RST38hhrw: oh20:40
AStormhrw: s/working/PITA/20:40
AStormand they had to invest money anyway20:41
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hrwAStorm: for their definition it is working20:41
RST38hthey could investe much smaller amount of money and port umac to userland driver api20:41
AStormRST38h: hmm, no20:41
AStormNDA, you see20:41
RST38hand maybe somebody (X-Fade?) should bring it up with Nokia20:41
derfRST38h: It doesn't matter if their statement discourage binary drivers or not.20:41
derfBut they have _just_ _said_ their goal is to not have any.20:41
RST38hAStorm: They can still release it in binary form20:41
derfAnd then going and doing something that would make that easier would be ridiculously stupid.20:41
RST38hAStorm: So NDA is not being touched here20:42
AStormRST38h: it would have to be abstracted much more20:42
AStormto not use any kernel interfaces20:42
RST38hderf: You misunderstand their statement, sorry20:42
AStormRST38h: no, you do20:42
RST38hAStorm: Well, then it is back to Linux developers20:42
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derf"We, the undersigned Linux kernel developers, consider any closed-source Linux kernel module or driver to be harmful and undesirable."20:42
AStormthe statement clearly says they don't want binary drivers20:43
johnxin the case of umac would a userspace driver mean that data is handed back and forth between kernelspace and userspace?20:43
derfWhat part of that says, "Binary drivers are okay."20:43
RST38hAStorm: Who ought to provide a binary driver interface rather than bitch about developers not making drivers available20:43
AStormRST38h: blah20:43
AStormjust make open driver20:43
AStormplus closed firmware20:43
AStormthat is ok20:43
RST38hAStorm: not always possible20:43
AStormassuming firmware isn't tied to version of the driver too much20:43
AStormalmost always possible if worthwhile20:43
RST38hWhat makes you think there is firmware in every device?20:43
AStormesp. possible with Wifi20:43
RST38hWith wifi - maybe20:44
RST38hNot with all the other stuff20:44
AStormwith gfx card?20:44
RST38hgfx card - no20:44
AStorm(see, nVidia)20:44
AStormno, you're wrong20:44
RST38hEven with nVidia - not entirely20:44
AStormthey do almost that20:44
RST38hWith PowerVR - maybe20:44
hrwAStorm: they released 770, n800, n810(wme) with umac and it works (for their definition of work). I hope that if they will make new tablet at all then it will not be another from this family20:44
AStormclose enough to port it20:44
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AStormhrw: omap3?20:44
hrwAStorm: would be nice ;)20:45
GeneralAntillesI don't see it being anything else.20:45
hrwguys: liblocation is open or closed?20:45
jkuhrw, closed20:45
jkueveryhting in location stack is closed (except gpsd)20:46
AStormhrw: you see, closed = PITA :>20:46
hrwso goodbye omweather20:46
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AStormgps could be open + firmware too, if they wanted20:46
RST38hgps is very simple20:46
hrwAStorm: it is userland library20:46
GeneralAntillesAnybody interested in helping with the increasing transparency plan?
RST38hit talks to the mothership via two serial ports20:46
RST38hSo we are not even talking a kernel level driver or even a userland driver20:47
AStormWifi talks to motherchip ;) through SPI20:47
RST38hA simple program that runs as a filter between gps and the system should suffice20:47
AStormthat needs to be ported to prism5420:47
RST38hAStorm: TI lists two ways: serial and SPI20:47
AStormthen add firmware and voila, it runs20:47
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RST38hAStorm: I guess N810 uses SPI for simplicity, but it is still serial in principle20:47
AStormSPI is serial, but a different form of it20:48
AStormnot UART20:48
RST38hI know20:48
RST38hsynchronous serial20:48
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RST38hmost chips will support both nowadays20:48
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GeneralAntillesSure nobody wants to help with ?21:01
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johnxGeneralAntilles, I'll look for a bit21:02
johnxgoing to bed in a couple minutes though21:02
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johnxI'm fed up dealing with autotools anyways O_o21:02
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johnxadded "Libraries" to the list of categories...especially since that's what I care about the most21:06
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qoshey guys. are there some good links how to test the new diablo os?21:09
johnxqos, nope21:10
qostest means that it is not released yet, but you guys are already running it21:10
GeneralAntillesqos, then, nope.21:11
sjgadsbyNuts. libwww-perl on the tablets doesn't include SSL support.21:11
GeneralAntillesWe were asked specifically not to distribute that information.21:11
johnxanyone outside Nokia who has "diablo" doesn't have it through official channels21:11
qosasked by?21:11
timelyThe error was: ³bad server response² (NSURLErrorDomain:-1011)21:13
timelyGeneralAntilles: nice url :(21:13
qosso, who told you? ;)21:13
johnxwe figured it out on our own21:13
GeneralAntillestimely, which url?21:13
johnxqos, there are some clues on, but I won't say anything more than that21:13
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timelysp3000: nokia screwed up all by hiding non user/ things, no? :)21:15
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qosi know about them, for that reason i was a bit staggered to hear nokia asked you not to spread these information. one would imagine that nokia stops those topics too...21:16
timelyGeneralAntilles: 60-90mins tops21:16
johnxqos, stops topics on public forums?21:16
gourdin_what is the best imap client for the n810 ?21:16
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GeneralAntillestimely, for Maemo-meeting?21:17
johnxI like modest but if you want more features look at claws21:17
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johnxGeneralAntilles, the page looks pretty good to me. anything specific you want me to look at?21:17
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GeneralAntillesI need help executing the plan.21:17
GeneralAntillesGetting the templates together and up to speed21:17
GeneralAntillesfiguring out procedure21:17
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GeneralAntillesgetting the package list21:17
GeneralAntillesdetermining source status21:18
qosjohnx, anyhow those forums which are controlled by guys like reggie21:18
Maximandermorning all21:18
GeneralAntillesputting together a couple of example petitions.21:18
Maximanderanyone know about using bluetooth SPP on os2008?21:18
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johnxqos, Reggie did make an appearance and urged people not to spread any more info. Nokia people said the same thing here.21:18
Maximanderbasically, I want a serial device in /dev after I pair a device with spp, but I'm not sure which kernel modules / scripts I need to get that21:19
qosany rumors about the offical release date?21:19
timelyimproving app managar21:20
johnxyou're in luck, I make up a new rumor everyday21:20
timelyqos: it'll be in the channel topic when it's ready21:21
* johnx throws a dart...jan 1 1970 or sometime in 2038...but what's the difference?21:21
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timelyit's not in the hands of nokia engineers21:21
timelyat this point, we don't have a clue in whose hands it really is21:21
timelyso anyone telling you differently is almost certainly smoking something21:21
Maximanderanyone? seems like this should be pretty simple, as most (all?) bluetooth GPS devices use bluetooth serial21:21
timelyasking is just annoying. so don't.21:21
malungohow can I get the imei number using python?21:21
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GeneralAntillestimely, That work better?21:24
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Mouseyi love maemo21:32
* Mousey humps maemo's leg21:32
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johnxwhat brought this on?21:33
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Mouseyjohnx: i just keep using it, and it just keeps making me grin21:33
Mouseygiant security hole it is,21:33
Maximandermeh, where is / how to i get the serial device after pairing a bluetooth serial device?21:33
Mouseyand some programs forget that fingers are the pointing device of choice21:33
Mouseyi'd like to get Bluetooth PAN workin too21:33
Mouseybut hey, my ignorance is not the device's shortcoming21:34
GeneralAntillesOh hell yes:
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johnxwow...I didn't know you could get odometer data out of an ODBII iface O_o21:35
johnxwell...duh...I guess if you can get speed21:35
johnxtoo bad gas will be like $7/gal by the next time I see a car :/21:35
aquatixstill cheap as hell21:36
aquatixcompared to what i pay21:36
johnxI believe it21:36
johnxit's just not cheap compared to what I used to pay21:36
aquatix1.60 euro for a liter21:36
MouseyGeneralAntilles: is that a canola plugin?21:37
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aquatixthat's about $9/gallon21:37
GeneralAntillesMousey, no, it's a separate application.21:37
aquatixGeneralAntilles: neat21:37
johnxI miss the summer of 2001 (WRT to gas prices)21:38
Mouseythat's really hot21:38
aquatixdoes it measure start/stops or something?21:38
aquatixjohnx: ghehe21:38
GeneralAntillesIt's OBDII, and, seemingly, GPS21:38
GeneralAntillesI need to get the ElmScan and the BT adaptor back into the car.21:39
johnxwow...there is tons of crazy stuff you can get out of OBDII21:39
* johnx needs to catch up on these new-fangled automobiles21:39
GAN800Depends on the car a bit21:39
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GAN800You'll get a lot more out of a high-end BMW than you will out of, say, my Camry.21:40
johnxof course, but my baseline reference is an 84 supra I used to have. That was like the first year it had a real digital ECU. Before that the ECU was mostly analog circuitry21:40
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johnxhigh-end 80's electronics are terrifying21:41
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* lcuk_afk is a pirate21:53
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* lcuk searches for eye patches21:55
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lbtI tweaked
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lcuk"Gary liquid has a very nice smooth scrolling gui that I'm interested in."   odes he really22:52
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GeneralAntillesGod, I hate "this is not a bug, as it's consistent with the spec"22:55
GeneralAntillesWell then the spec is broken and needs to be changed!22:56
GeneralAntilless/hate/hate responses like/22:56
lcukwhich spec22:56
GeneralAntillesThey don't show the rotating long-press animation on long-presses.22:57
lcukno need to laugh i was only asking :P22:57
GeneralAntillesWhich goes against the platform.22:57
GeneralAntilles"This is a good idea, but to be consistent with the rest of the application a rotating indictor is not part of the product spec."22:57
lbtHow do I get that animation? I wanted it in my app... (to fit in)22:57
lcukwell you're gonna hate mine - its not even hildonized22:57
GeneralAntilleslcuk, that's fine.22:57
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GeneralAntillesBut their product kinda pretends to be a Hildon application.22:58
lbtmine is :) Even has does dbus messages .... all for a shopping list!22:58
GeneralAntillesI don't have any issues with things that are obviously not Hildon stuff (like Canola) not comply with the platform spec.22:58
lcukyer i dont even offer a "not full screen" option (though its in code and works nicely)22:58
lbtlcuk:  wouldn't know...22:58
GeneralAntillesBut if your application pretends to be Hildon, then it should comply with the platform UI spec.22:58
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lbtso GeneralAntilles, where is the platform spec for long presses and the docs that tell you how to do it in Hildon?23:00
lbtis it gtk_widget_tap_and_hold_menu_position_top23:00
GeneralAntillesCheck the maemo docs23:00
GeneralAntillesI don't know.23:00
* lcuk wishes he had never started to move to database23:00
lbtI've been looking for a couple of days - but since you kind of brought it up...23:00
lbtah well...23:00
lbtlcuk: hash buckets...23:01
lcuklbt, what does your shopping list do then23:01
lcukthats for partying23:01
keesjDatabases are for ladies!23:02
lbtlcuk :
lcukwell i thought that, but now ive got 476 files to read and process23:03
lbtway cool eh?23:03
lcukdunno, you put a colon in front i cant click yet..23:03
lbtVB coder23:03
lbtboring but useful23:04
lcukyour shopping list looks like mine, except yours uses real fonts :P23:04
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lbtand things disappear when you tick them23:04
lbtand when they've all gone, the N800 blue light flashes...23:05
lbtlike I said - I just needed to remember C and now C++ and the zaurus battery is dead so I got to buy an N800 on condition I ported Shopper to it....23:06
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lbtand I'm not allowed to buy steak until it's done...23:06
keesjlcuk: read and think about the current versioned system you just created, all you need is to also store a full set net to your changes file23:06
lbtbloody managers...23:06
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lbtlcuk: what are you using a DB for?23:08
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lcuk(keesj, reading now, looks similar to other things ive thought about/implemented in the past) lbt, you have seen the sketch program - ive got about 500 individual sketches each with their own pages strokes points tags and meta info.  restoriing from file just to view the graffiti wall is getting laborious23:10
lcukand managing tags was painful23:10
lbta thought: in large scale 3d modelling you only read in 'nearby' nodes.23:12
lcuki needed a way to scale up beyond those limitations, but i will also need network connectivity as well23:12
lbtsome RPGs page in scene information from just beyond the player's visibility boundary - you're not a million miles from that pattern23:13
lcukits not *that* bad yet, its just a few seconds loading, but its not as slick as i want it.  i have a target and know (cos ive been testing) that sqlite can give it me23:13
lbtyeah - but23:13
lbtall in memory at once - kinda limiting23:13
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lcukand - records for rpg *still* need to be sorted and selected quickly, i really cant be arsed reinventing the wheel for everything, the db does sorting and grouping better than my file system could23:14
lbthashes are good for that kind of thing23:14
lcukonce i have it i can do all what you say and initialise the records at the right time23:14
lcukwhat builds the hashes...23:14
lbtI did some work on git a while back23:14
lcukand how often do they change (the whole surface is fluid - each sketch can resize and move at will according to the base object model23:15
lbtIs a sketch a self contained unit though?23:15
lcukyes - currently there is a frame class which contains a sketch, its the bare frames which move and adjust and render the contained sketch as required23:16
lbtso define it, create a hash of it's contents, store the hash in a heirarchy, note where the hash is in on the 2d space23:16
lbtgit does that.23:17
lbtyour 2d space map is a list of hashes.23:17
lcukthen the user clicks on a sketch and moves it - new hash required23:17
lbtEvery sketch is unique so has a unique hash23:17
lbtwell, if they *move* it23:17
lcukits not that bad - the ONLY thing im even remotely bothered about was the initial loading time23:17
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lbtthe hash doesn't change23:17
keesjI am so happy I don't do databases any more!23:17
lbtthe 2d space changes23:18
lbtand it gives you an infinite space23:18
lbtand network capabilities23:18
lbtyou can throw a hash to another device23:18
lbtit appears on their tablet23:18
lcukoh - i best tell you - i have all these strokes and sketches now, i will be processing them into island groups and normalizing them to give a set of similar characters23:18
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* lcuk did the brainwork a couple of years ago in vb ;)23:19
lbtI'm actually describing a lot of what git does - the linux kernel version control system?23:19
lcukyer i know what you are on about and i understand23:19
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lbtOK - checking23:19
lbtit's powerful but can be a space hog23:20
lbtyou don't need to keep versions (but you could)23:20
lcuki suppose these sketches would be like that - network awareness has been pondered23:20
lcukit already does23:20
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lbtyep, take a sketch and beam it to another N800...23:20
lcukopening a sketch to edit and saving does not remove the old - i have full history23:20
lbttake 2 sketches and merge them23:20
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lcukdisplay the history23:21
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lbtOK - git has a concept called packing23:21
lcukwell merging i was going to do with frames, just like setting up a form23:21
lcuksketch here, another one there, make that bigger flip that one rotate that one etc23:21
lbtdon't know the object heirarchy...23:21
lbtmerging should join the containers23:22
lcukyou can see it - ive printed it and its on the wall at the side23:22
lbthmm, your camera is off23:22
lbtgive me a moment....23:22
lbtthe thing about a hash system is that it doesn't have the overhead of a DB - and most of the time you don't want a DB23:23
lbtyou just want a DB's blob store23:23
lcukare you registered here in #maemo23:24
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GeneralAntillesYou don't register for a channel. :P23:25
lbthow do you mean?23:25
GeneralAntillesYou register for the network.23:25
lcuklbt, its ok you are i think - or ive turned off anon access23:26
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kkrustyI found a way to  have canola play playlists with flv files23:33
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Mouseyyou officially rock23:33
kkrustyjust rename the flv to mpeg :|23:33
kkrustyI know23:33
Mouseyreally? That's it?23:33
kkrustyits just a frontend23:33
Mouseythat rocks23:33
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kkrustywell I regret it though23:34
kkrustyon the second file it started screaming this insanely high pitch sound23:34
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kkrustyso it doesnt rock23:35
kkrustynow I have to put some new cotton into my ears23:35
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Ping?23:41
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, pong.23:47
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I showed Marius your application manager page and he liked it very much.23:48
GeneralAntillesExcellent! :D23:48
X-FadeHe is willing to work with the community and even give them commit access to the project. (We need to do it in an experimental branch and need to work some more things out)23:49
X-FadeBut let's work that out in the near future.23:50
X-FadeI'll try to get back to you on that later this week.23:51
GeneralAntillesI'm assuming you saw?
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X-FadeYes, and also the other meetings Quim suggested. I will try to put them in the event calendar on too.23:52
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X-FadeWe need to do a practice run of a meeting too. To see how we would do moderation etc.23:53
lbtI'll help :)23:54
GeneralAntillesYeah, the Freenode services just changed fairly significantly, too.23:54
GeneralAntillesand I'm not sure we can do voice-by-default. :\23:54
X-Fadelbt: You can play the guy who gets banned ;)23:54
lbtI can heckle...23:55
lbtask lcuk23:55
X-FadeHehe, well more on that later too.23:55
X-FadeI really need to get some sleep.23:55
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atezunIs it poosible to disable the stylus keyboard in OS2008 or at least set the finger keyboard as default?23:59
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kkrustyyes. Place a fat glass slab on the screen23:59

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