IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2008-06-21

*** lardman|away is now known as lardman00:04
lardmanhey Jaffa, how was France?00:04
Jaffagood; nice and warm and very little rain.00:04
lardmannot fair! ;)00:05
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lcukam i safe to disable the watchdog?00:09
mukshi all; i want a maemo package maintainer to pick up tinyproxy for inclusion in the repo00:09
muksis anyone interested?00:09
lcukwhy not submit it yourself?00:10
lardmanlcuk: for what reason?00:10
lardmanlcuk: normally yes00:10
mukslcuk: because i don't know how, and it'd be easier for someone who does this for other packages to pick it up00:11
muks(and also knows the maemo environment well)00:11
lcukwell im trying to work out where im getting a cpu spike from - every ~2/3 of a second im skipping a frame and my gut is telling me something is waking up and taking memory bandwidth away00:12
lcukbut when i try to kill processes the watchdog kicks in..00:12
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lardmanlcuk: yeah, should be ok to switch it off00:13
lcukive only encountered it once so far... and that was 5 minutes ago00:13
lardmanlcuk: only thing you might find is that the machine part-crashes and you need to reboot (without it doing it for you)00:13
lardmanbut that's only if you abuse it00:13
lcukwatchdog doesnt autoboot when my program goes mental (infiniteloop) so im used to popping the cell00:14
* lardman goes for a glass of wine, optimisation changes to sbc have altered the output :(00:14
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lcuklol i had my funky text back earlier :) i thought i had seen the last of misaligned glyphs00:14
muksif anyone is interested in packaging, please contact us on the mailing list. thank you!00:17
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summatusmentisSprint is saying wi-max will be available in sept.00:35
summatusmentisso presumably n810w will follow00:35
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* sp3000 loves the latest randomly absurd use of the microsoft club on -users00:40
sp3000club as in bat not bar00:41
GeneralAntilles-users is out there lately.00:41
* Jaffa thinks he's been randomly unsubscribed again.00:41
GeneralAntillesMr. Mark Haury can really write 'em.00:41
GeneralAntillesHe spends an awful lot of time responding to that list for somebody unwilling to waste time submitting bug reports. <_<00:42
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lcuk~lart n81000:50
* infobot raises middle finger to n81000:50
GeneralAntilles /kick lcuk00:51
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lcukgrrrr \o.00:52
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* Jaffa quickly looks over the logo suggestions and likes jussi's and attila's moebius & butterfly concepts best01:01
GeneralAntillesdeadknight88 has some good ones, too.01:03
GeneralAntillesThough the capital M has to go.01:03
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JaffaI like the simplicity, but clearly defined concepts of jussi's & attila's, though the artistry of deadknight88's submissions, and the key concept, are quite interesting.01:07
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GeneralAntillesI haven't seen anything that really jumps out at me yet, though.01:08
JaffaAgreed. The butterfly concept is good, and the implementation nice enough, but it didn't quite work at first glance - just looking a bit cartooney. Once I read "butterfly", I said "oh yeah" and liked it more.01:09
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lcukwheres the link?01:13
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lcuklogos - if you have it avail please01:13
lcukthanks :)01:13
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pupnik810hi lcuk around01:15
lcukyer pupnik01:15
lcukhi \o01:15
pupnik810hotel paid?01:16
lcukhmmm not checked account today, but not as of a couple of days ago01:16
pupnik810am broke - no internet01:16
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lcukboo hisss :( has yours been paid01:17
lcukpupnik, you will have to sell yourself, let people in your town hire your n800 or something01:18
pupnik810ok thx01:19
lcukhow are you doing though?01:19
pupnik810just checking01:19
pupnik810i am being kicked out01:19
pupnik810of the pub01:19
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GeneralAntilleslol ouch01:20
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admin_it passes the Hands screen, then you can see the left bar in white 'load', whole screen goes white, then restart. I didn't make any changes to the n770, I restarted cause I could change applets for some bizzare reason02:12
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admin_I don't wanna reflash :/02:13
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admin_sounds like this:
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corevettecan you make calls into the nokia 770 with os2006?02:32
acydlordnot that i am aware of02:33
corevettenot through SIP or anything?02:36
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acydlordi dont remember os2006 having sip03:01
corevettei thought google talk had sip with it03:01
JaffaHmm, should GarethLWalt's #1 logo ( be moved to unacceptable as it's passing-off Palm, Inc's logo (IIRC)03:02
GeneralAntillesAh, THAT'S where I saw that. . . .03:03
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, I'd say yes.03:03
* Jaffa does so.03:03
Jaffa is even more persuasive.03:04
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* Jaffa is pretty much caught up, spammed people to death about the Community Council (although prolly could go in the /topic here, TBH) and therefore beds.03:31
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fuelfiveI'm trying to modprobe mtdram to unpack the root image, and it's giving me Cannot allocate memory errors. I've googled exhaustively without luck - any suggestions04:46
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rm_youGeneralAntilles: hrm05:03
* rm_you is brainstorming for the logo contest05:03
GeneralAntillesMake it not suck05:04
rm_youI *really* want to win this05:04
rm_youmore than I think I've ever wanted to win anything before :P05:04
* rm_you installs Inkscape and thanks the gods he learned how to use it a few months ago05:05
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GeneralAntillesDo you want to win this more than you want to live?05:09
rm_youi really want a n810WIMAX05:12
rm_youand i'm poor05:12
rm_youand i want to go to that conference :P05:12
GeneralAntillesand you're poor?05:12
rm_youyes :P05:13
* GeneralAntilles a note not to vote for rm_you's submission.05:13
rm_youyou don't want me to get a n810? :P05:13
GeneralAntillesNah, I just don't want you getting your crazy on all tho poor schmucks at OSiM. :D05:14
GeneralAntillesSome story behind your logo will probably help05:15
rm_youam I too much of an OSS zealot? :P05:15
GeneralAntilleslook at atila's or jussi's05:15
rm_youhow do i see submissions05:16
rm_youtheres the page05:16
rm_youi really like atila05:17
GeneralAntillesWhile you're in Inkscape, you want to whip up a cool icon for adv-backlight?05:17
rm_you's logo >_>05:17
rm_youlol, no :P05:17
rm_youyou already made a good one05:18
GeneralAntillesDid I?05:18
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rm_youdamn, a lot of these are good05:20
rm_youI dont even have a concept in my HEAD that can compete with these yet05:21
* rm_you keeps brainstorming05:21
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* rm_you is not an artist >_>05:23
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GeneralAntillesMmm . . . milk and cookies.05:38
rm_youwow I suck at this <_<05:53
rm_youI had a thought, but i don't have the artistic skills to pull it off05:53
rm_youi need to go simpler05:53
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GeneralAntillesSimple is good05:56
rm_youjust got an idea05:59
rm_youi might be able to do05:59
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rm_youGeneralAntilles: I'm gonna sketch it up first before I spend like 5 hours vectorizing it06:03
befordheh, working on a logo?06:03
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summatusmentisugh... I should do that...06:08
rm_youit does use the combine ae character, yes?06:10
rm_youor is just a e fine06:10
rm_youæ vs ae06:10
GeneralAntillesjust use ae06:10
summatusmentisI like the combined one, but I'm a latin nerd06:11
GeneralAntillesIt's maemo.org06:11
GeneralAntillesnot mæmo.org06:11
summatusmentisis it even possible to use the single character in a url?06:12
rm_youbut, for the logo...06:13
befordit may be possible to use it in the url06:13
GeneralAntillesDo what I want, though, really.06:13
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infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Do what you want, though, really.06:14
GeneralAntillesMy evil controlling personality slipped through there for a sec. :P06:15
rm_youGeneralAntilles: take a look at this basic idea06:20
rm_youand tell me what you think06:20
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nelsonds3: p;ing07:30
nelsonds3: ping07:30
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ds3nelson: pong07:59
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pomeloanyone tried to run Adobe AIR apps on N800?08:51
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lcukGeneralAntilles, ping10:16
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Khertanlcuk > thx for the mail about my phone on garage :)10:29
Khertanbut i  don t really care, as i can activate filter on my phone :)10:30
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Khertanand as i ve some domain in .fr10:31
lcukor anyone else thats no problem khertan, just some people dont realise quite where their details end up after entering them10:31
lcuk-or anyone else10:31
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Khertanlook at khertan.net10:39
Khertansame thing:)10:39
Khertanso today it s my first day of holiday ...10:39
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mikeyanyone around for a couple of (prob dumb) questions?10:52
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mikeyI am thinking of updating the OS on my n800 to the latests; I have only Apple and Linux boxes and I don't want to lose using Navicore GPS - any info or comment?10:53
mikeyI have downloaded RX-34_2008SE_2.2007.51-3_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin and 770Flasher-2.0.dmg already, btw10:55
mikeyI just wondered if anyone knows that using this updated OS is ok woth the GPS software that came with my n800?10:56
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acydlorddo you have the navicore serial key still?10:58
mikeyalso if anyone had used the 770Flasher reliably with either a Intel macMini or G4 powerBook?10:58
mikeyI have all the serials etc10:58
acydlordif you still have the serial key thats all you need to use navicore on the updated os10:58
mikeyfab; one question settled10:58
acydlordand i dont know about using the 770 flasher on osx, i've only done it on linux and windows10:59
mikeydoing it with the flasher GUI or command line from a terminal on macOSX(10.5.5) - any thoughts?10:59
mikeytyping at the same time :-)10:59
mikeyI have Kubuntu on a backup box11:00
acydlordusing the osx terminal should work the same as in linux i would assume11:00
mikeypretty much the same - although I don't particularly like BSD-based linux11:01
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mikeythanks for your input11:01
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AlgorithmicContrmy n800 plays .mp4 terribly11:06
acydlord.mp4 is for suckers11:06
AlgorithmicContrMay someone help me?11:06
AlgorithmicContracydlord: I know11:06
acydlordwhat media player are you using to play mp4?11:07
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AlgorithmicContracydlord: I'm going to convert it, what are you guidelines?11:09
acydlordi have most of my audio in flac, and my video in divx11:10
acydlordmplayer seems to be able to handle just about anything i've thrown at it so far though11:10
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AlgorithmicContracydlord: I'll use ffmpeg to convert11:18
AlgorithmicContror tablet-encode11:18
acydlordthe nifty little video encoder for maemo works pretty good11:20
acydlordffmpeg would probably give you better quality though11:20
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tank-manwhat was the mp4? audio? video?11:22
tank-manmp4 is the container11:22
acydlordprobably video if using ffmpeg to convert11:23
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mousejust a report back for info for future users: I just used the GUI method on an Intel macMini to update the OS. Required removal of additiional storage card and switching on after running GUI. Hope this helps others11:31
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* Jaffa wishes he still had a Mac just so he could rename and tweak :-/12:04
acydlordi need to reinstall the x toolchain on my mac12:05
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qwerty12Jaffa, ping13:45
Jaffaqwerty12: pong13:48
qwerty12It doesn't matter sorry, I've been working to try and get tablet-encode with the gui working under windows. According to a site, perl doesn't like fork being used.13:50
JaffaI thought that'd been fixed now.13:50
qwerty12It may be an old version of Perl, I'm not sure. I tried the latest ActivePerl but it doesn't have the Gtk-perl and ppd is messed up to hell on that.13:51
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JaffaWould  be cool to get it working. First thing first: a simple Gtk-Perl app which doesn't do anything fancy (possibly just commenting out the fork line of tablet-encode) and take it from there. The fork()'s only necessary for progress updates - it's not integral to the functioning of the GUI.13:54
JaffaMore users => hopefully more patches to get a better GUI for it13:54
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qwerty12Ok, I installed GTK2-Perl into the latest ActivePerl. Gui shows up fine, Open and Save Dialogs are fine (except I have to choose to show "All Files"; not the default "Video Files") but when it comes to encoding, I get panic: restartop which equals the fork stuff. I'll try some modding on that.14:02
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Jaffaqwerty12: cool, thanks. I'll try and get Gtk2-Perl installed on my work laptop, though I tend to use cygwin rather than ActiveState14:11
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qwerty12Jaffa, Great, I don't mind switching to cygwin to use tablet-encode or anything. Thanks for looking into it.14:13
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acydlordhmm, i wonder if maemo ruby is vulnerable to the bugs14:29
acydlordanywho off to bed, 'ta14:31
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lcuk810sHHT HOW DO I UNDO CAPSLOCK ON 810?14:34
Veggenlcuk: another tap at shift?14:36
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AStormlcuk810: I suggest a reboot14:37
AStormseen that once myself too14:38
AStormI suspect a hildon-input-method bug14:38
lcuk810well i seem to have managed it by connecting apple kb, but the capslock light (which i never knew it had) is blinding me its not right at all back in a min14:40
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lcuk810well thats better, how bizarre14:43
lcuk810ive got a database related q, has anyone found any tools to read access databases?14:44
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AStormyou mean, like, sqlitemanager?14:48
AStormuhm, I mean, sqlitebrowser14:48
lcuk810that ca n read (and convert from) MS access ?14:48
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lcuk810infact the conversion would be secondary, its reading from - if i can get at thedata inside i can do the conversion myself as required.  i was thinking programatic interface though14:50
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AStormit's just sqlite14:51
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AStormyou can go at it with Python's support for example14:51
AStormor just libsqlite14:51
lcuk810sqlite cannpt open ms access databases can it?  i thought it handled its own format `(which i am already using)14:52
AStormahh, ms access14:52
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AStormthere are some libs I think14:52
lcuk810ill have a look when i get my big computer back14:52
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* lcuk810 can hear thomas the tank engine movies on youtube atm14:53
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lcuk810iiiiiiiits amazing when a 6 year old is in charge14:54
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pomelosomeone knows how to cook the os2008 rom, so many apps are useless for me or have better successors...14:55
lcuk810just buildl it how you like and take a fullsystem clone14:56
lcuk810read up on the clone to mmc articles14:56
lcuk810added benefit, if it all goes pearshaped and a regular user would have to reflash, you can just boot from original partition and have everything working still14:57
pomelowhere can i find the link to that article14:58
lcuk810iiiiiiii think theres a link for it on google14:58
* lcuk810 has gremlins today14:59
lcuk810gonna make a brew, anyone want one15:02
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lcuk810hahaha jake just sung "no time for losers, cos we are the trafford centres of the world"15:10
crashanddiejust had a nice idea for the NIT15:10
crashanddieI often use my laptop, about as much as my NIT15:10
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crashanddieBut sometimes, I'd love to just be able to send over a link/file/action that displays immediately on the NIT15:10
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rm_youcrashanddie: yeah i know what you mean... i always have to like, SSH in, drop a link in a text file, open it....15:11
crashanddieI think I'll write a daemon on the NIT that will listen for incoming files/links and handle their opening, if possible15:11
crashanddiethen a small client on my laptop, right click, "send to NIT"15:11
rm_youor AIM it to myself15:11
* lcuk810 sends crash random pictures15:11
rm_youcrashanddie: I vote for that :P15:11
crashanddiewould be kinda awesome15:11
kkrustyhow do you get involved in a project for maemo?15:11
rm_youkkrusty: find a project you're interested in15:11
rm_youand ask the people in charge15:11
rm_youor start off by just submitting patches15:12
lcuk810or write something that makes people smile15:12
crashanddiekkrusty, usually works best when you have something to give to the project15:12
lcuk810development work initially should be for your number one customer: do things that interest you15:12
crashanddiekkrusty, say you wrote a feature and would like it to be reviewed/added to the project15:12
rm_youa lot of projects on have trackers that list tasks that need to be done... if you submit patches for them, they might like you :P15:12
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rm_youbut really, you need to get to know the developers here and just offer :P15:12
crashanddierm_you, I had that idea a few nights back15:13
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rm_youcrashanddie: so do it :)15:13
crashanddieHave to finish my contract15:13
crashanddiethen I'll have free time15:13
lcuk810kkrusty, find a problem or limitation that bugs you personally.  do something about it and see where it gets you.  if you dont end up being involved totally, you will have cured your own annoyance15:13
crashanddielcuk810, that's indeed quite healthy15:14
lcuk810well the very first oss project i got involved with was flashblock on firefox - it stopped working when they released a new flash (8 i think) and i diagnosed and found the problem and solution :)15:15
kkrustylcuk810: I take it that you've seen you're share of committment-less volunteers :)15:15
lcuk810no kkrusty, ive only been a volunteer myself and when i put my mind to something i do it :)15:15
kkrustylcuk810: No kidding! I use that after hearing about crap loads of vurnabilities in flashplayer15:15
crashanddiekkrusty, I don't think it has anything to do with lack of commitment15:15
lcuk810but ive found my own scratch and am itching it nicely15:16
crashanddiekkrusty, just as the same as getting helpdesk burnout, you get burnt out quite fast if you're working for something you don't give bollocks about15:16
lcuk810kkrusty, remember though: flashblock DOES NOT remove flash before it runs, it replaces it after its started15:16
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lcuk810it is not a security solution15:16
crashanddiewouldn't a greasemonkey script be able to handle the flash loading ?15:17
kkrustylcuk810: hmm. I didnt know that. Thanks for that info15:17
lcuk810greasemonkey works on the DOM already built and included15:17
crashanddielcuk, yeah, but it happens before the body onload, right ?15:17
crashanddielcuk810, and flash only gets run ()'d once the onload is hit, IIRC ? No ?15:18
lcuk810i believe adblock manages to do it before its included, but that has not been confirmed by myself and i dont trust anything.  if you are worried about security, disable the plugin15:18
JaffaHmm, getting *loads* of spam on the new wiki15:19
lcuk810i used to use proximatron to filter things before inclusion but that died15:19
lcuk810jaffa, i noticed on the community talk page and removed it this morning15:19
lcuk810if you insist on open access would it be feasible to use a turing test?15:20
rm_youJaffa: quick question about tablet-encode...15:20
rm_youJaffa: it seems to be ignoring the bitrate I am setting in the preset...15:21
rm_youI had to go in and hardcode the bitrate I want >_> any idea why it would do that?15:21
rm_youis there a max bitrate?15:21
Jaffalcuk810: I'd be willing to lock out anonymous access, TBH. Anyone editing must have an account.15:21
lcuk810well i was surprised i was allowed again, i think until a different solution was found it might be a good idea15:22
Jaffarm_you: if you're re-encoding a DivX file, it doesn't over-encode: i.e. if the preset's bitrate is higher than the effective bitrate per pixel (plus overhead) of the original video, the preset's bitrate is scaled proportionally.15:23
lcuk810jaffa, have you caught up with dr who yet?15:23
rm_youJaffa: ah that MIGHT be it15:23
Jaffalcuk810: a couple of bad days of weather, a free Internet connection, a relatively cheap wifi connection in the campsite bar and my N810 meant we watched them both - including last week's on Sunday :-)15:23
* Jaffa looking forward to tonights. Muchly.15:23
rm_youoo, has the next ep after the library aired yet?15:24
rm_youah tonight?15:24
Jaffarm_you: yeah, it was a really effective, scary, single one - _Midnight_ - last week.15:24
rm_youI have to wait about three hours after they air to watch them15:24
lcuk810:) jaffa im not allowed to take real computers on holiday15:24
JaffaLibrary was a 2 parter, Midnight was last week and tonight's is looking *veeery* good and looks to be the start of a 3-parter to end the season (like last year)15:25
lcuk810and rm_you you are 1 ep ehind i think, last weeks wasnt the library i dont think15:25
Jaffalcuk810: Mrs Jaffa's N810 entertains Jaffa Jr with Thomas the Tank Engine, Underground Ernie and Tikkabilla episodes15:25
rm_youI know library was a two parter, i just saw the second one15:25
* lcuk810 wants rose to have his babies15:25
rm_yourose kinda annoyed me >_>15:25
crashanddieI just had an idea 'bout the maemo logo and wanted to expose it15:25
lcuk810jaffa my youngest nicks my big pc, its a bit frustrating using internet at the moment15:26
crashanddiebut considering a wasp attacked me while I was typing it, I'm guessing this is a sign that the idea was bad15:26
lcuk810actually, jaffa you've been away, i posted a video of my liqbase thing have you seen it?15:26
* Jaffa 's son has his own, slightly broken old ThinkPad he uses.15:26
rm_youI had an idea for the logo, but it was way too... gradeschool / summercamp15:26
Jaffalcuk810: Yeah, saw your plug for the video: *very* cool stuff15:26
rm_youlcuk810: you should release a new beta :P15:26
Jaffarm_you: can't be any worse than rsperberg's ;-)15:27
rm_youlcuk810: and the source for it! :P15:27
lcuk810and its getting better each day - its totally stable and the amount of data ive produced has forced me to build a database15:27
rm_youJaffa: hand-drawn sketch of what it would kind of look like:
rm_youit is... bad <_<15:28
rm_youi scrapped that idea15:28
rm_youalso, was lost about how to do the a and e :P15:28
rm_youthe idea was to do a construction theme, as maemo is being built by all of us15:29
rm_youbut "construction" looks kind of "gradeschool" >_>15:29
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lcuk810rm_you, if i release the source to the xv library ready for people to build modules with nice fast stuff, what would you use it for: what do you wanna build for your 8x0?15:29
Jaffarm_you: that could look very cool if the elements involved were as well drawn as, say, the OS X icons.15:29
rm_youlcuk810: I want you to release the entire app so I can play with it :P15:30
rm_youJaffa: yeah I was gonna sketch it out and decide if i wanted to spend the time doing it in inkscape15:30
rm_youcause i'm SLOOOOW in inkscape15:30
lcuk810well the book reader isnt a finished app, the sketch is in serious development and im not going to be sidetracked by that part15:30
* Jaffa isn't sure it'd beat the butterfly and moebius concepts in my preference, but it could :-)15:31
rm_youatilla's is ... awesome15:31
rm_youas is the pixel dot / moebius thing15:31
crashanddielcuk810, just watched the video15:31
crashanddielcuk, kinda awesome, I have to admit, really15:31
lcuk810the butterfly says "dp" and i laugh everytime i see it.  i like the one that looks like a sketch stroke ending with the circled M15:31
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rm_youcrashanddie: yeah, but he's just teasing us, he refuses to release anything :P15:31
lcuk810theres a pre beta somewhere15:32
lcuk810playtest :)15:32
rm_youlcuk810: enough about the pre-beta]15:32
crashanddiejust one question15:32
rm_yourelease another build :P15:32
rm_youlike your current one15:32
crashanddielcuk810, where the fuck are you from ?15:32
rm_youlet people play15:32
crashanddie"lynux teeg"15:32
lcuk810crashanddie, why15:32
rm_youlol? i dont think I caught that15:32
crashanddie"these are notes from back at lynux teeg"15:33
crashanddiesounded like a remix between welsh and australian15:33
crashanddieno offense eh lcuk810 :P15:34
lcuk810crashanddie, it was improvised speech i wasnt even gonna release that one - if you noticed i closed the program accidentally in the middle and left it in slow mode whilst drawing and the code reader scrolled way offscreen stuff but just worked through it.   if the camera hadnt ran out of batteries i wouldv retook15:34
lcuk810and known what i was gonna say...15:34
crashanddielcuk810, I don't think it's bad really15:34
crashanddielcuk810, honestly, I'm getting pretty tired of all these reviews that are polished and show everything *but* the lesser parts15:35
lcuk810good.. :P15:35
crashanddieso for once, showing an honest to god "this is how it is, for real" really isn't bothering, always better than getting it and saying "hey but you didn't show that !"15:35
lcuk810crashanddie, after my time at linuxteeeg im not going to worry about showing unpolished things, i cocked up so badly whilst standing in front of people that nothing else matters.  ive had the worst experience ill ever have and everything can be better from thereon15:36
crashanddielcuk810, still, you didn't answer: where are you from ?15:36
crashanddielcuk810, oh well, it can be worse, trust me15:36
lcuk810hang on, lemme get a lock and ill tell you15:37
crashanddielcuk810, wednesday morning: final exam, 1h30 long oral presentation...15:37
rm_youlol we dont need your GPD coords, just country of origin :P15:37
lcuk810crashanddie, i have not been in a room with more than about 10 people professionally in many years, and ive never stood infront of them15:38
crashanddieI was supposed to write an app on the NIT that managed basins or (just fishtanks, really)15:38
rm_yousomeday i want to be presenting at one of those linux conferences >_>15:38
crashanddiefor some fucked up reason, someone replaced the server I wrote with something that sent out XML that didn't validate against my XML schema...15:38
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crashanddieAnd as it happens, there was an exception I didn't catch...15:39
crashanddieSo basically... The only thing my app did was segfault the whole time15:39
aquatixsounds like my stuff15:39
crashanddiew00t, awesome guys ! Thanks for the help !15:39
crashanddiewell, not segfault, rather just uncaught exception...15:40
aquatixrm_you: see you at FOSDEM next year? :)15:40
lcuk810crashanddie, :) ok you are right, i shall hold up every bad experience against yours and know that iiiiiiiits all alright :)15:40
lcuk810lol crashanddie you brought t on yourself with your nickname15:40
Stskeepsthe law of demos: they never work when there's spectators15:40
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lcuk810right, dinner time, back later15:41
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crashanddie"well sir, would you like to try and install the application ? Fine, just go in the application manager, yes that's right, settings, application manager, now go to installable software, my category, double tap it... And you'll it's just going to download it from the repository and install it all by itself"15:42
crashanddie"whatdyamean, it fails ?"15:42
Jaffa will not be changed; be sure to check for double or broken redirects. You are responsible for making sure that links continue to point where they are supposed to go.15:42
JaffaDoh. Jaffa Jr on my lap15:43
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rm_youaquatix: would love to be there :P15:47
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aquatixrm_you: ever been there?16:00
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rm_youaquatix: haven't ever been to Europe :P16:55
rm_youaquatix: I do want to go though, especially Germany16:55
rm_youaquatix: I might have the money by next year16:56
rm_youwe'll see16:56
rm_youI almost dropped everything and went to linuxtag this year >_>16:56
lcukyou shouldv16:56
lcukit was good16:56
rm_youyeah :/16:56
rm_youI was poor tho16:56
lcukand you oculdv hacked my machine and grabbed the binary and source :P16:56
rm_youlcuk: I still can if you give me those GPS coords :P16:57
lcukim in manchester england, where r u16:57
* rm_you is still a student16:57
* lcuk is still learning16:57
rm_youI oscillate between Texas and Washington State16:57
rm_yougot one more year left and then I'm unleashed upon the world :)16:57
lcukahhh yes, ive asked before, i think its the time you are awake that throws me16:58
rm_youyeah lol16:58
rm_youabout to go to sleep16:58
rm_you7am >_>16:58
lcuksunrise always makes me feel woozy16:58
lcuki look around after a long night coding and think "shiiiiit"16:59
rm_youI look outside now and if it is light out I wonder wtf i'm doing awake16:59
rm_youthat includes when i first wake up16:59
rm_youi open my eyes, pull open the blinds, see the sun, and go back to sleep16:59
lcuklol - its more disconcerting though to go sleep in daytime and wake up when its dark16:59
rm_youeh, for a while i woke up at midnight16:59
rm_youTHAT is odd16:59
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lcuktheres no clues about what rough time it is, at least with the sun you know where the shadows fall17:00
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rm_youwaking up when your roommates are going to bed is strange17:00
rm_youit isnt quite as bad if you can at least be awake for a few hours with people <_17:00
lcukyer, but its harder work than just not fighting the system and just sleeping at regular times17:01
lcukit also means you may get a job as well :P17:01
rm_youI need a job...17:01
rm_youbeen living off $3 a day for two weeks17:01
lcukbecome a bounty hunter and track down my code :D17:01
rm_youthats basically a pack of hot dogs and buns, plus average expenses for ketchup <_<17:01
rm_youfor two weeks17:02
lcukcant you just go to the diner and "borrow" sachets of ketchup?17:02
rm_youI *need* a job17:02
rm_youI do that with napkins17:02
lcuklol @ rush in with pants round ankles "need some napkins, k thx bye"17:02
rm_youi finally got a pot a few days ago so I can cook $1 packs of pasta17:02
rm_you$8 for a 12 pack of Mac&Cheese <_<17:03
lcukyou need more than a job, you need a woman17:03
rm_youwomen is why i'm this poor right now17:03
lcukturn off your nokia, choose a path and get yourself in order (and cut your hair as well :P)17:03
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rm_youif women werent in the picture I could at least afford some salad >_>17:04
rm_youanyway, I should go sleep now, gotta release 0.9b soon17:04
rm_you*I* try to keep with the "release early and often" ideal17:04
* rm_you glares17:05
lcukwe should discuss soon about how to do packaging :) you can give me some pointers17:05
lcukgnite anyway17:05
rm_youheh, I suck at debian packaging... I got inz to do it for me :)17:05
lcuki release often as well :)17:05
rm_youwhen was your last release?17:05
lcukabout an hour ago, i think the smells gone from the bathroom now17:05
rm_youlike three months ago? >:/17:05
aquatixgermany is overrated ;)17:05
lcukgermany is impressive17:06
* aquatix lives in the netherlands17:06
rm_youDeutschland ist uber alles? ^_^17:06
lcukrm_you, if i knew what i was releasing i would17:06
* rm_you took like two years of German classes17:07
* aquatix likes Dutch better17:07
aquatixbut i'm slightly biase17:07
rm_youI think if I went to Germany and spoke to people in my horrible German, they'd understand what I'm saying and then politely tell me just to speak english17:07
aquatixbut a lot of germans don't speak english17:08
lcukthen when they heard your english they would just tell you to shutup :P17:08
rm_youI can speak very eloquently when I try :)17:08
aquatixlcuk: *g*17:08
rm_youooo Desperado is on!17:08
lcukgo to bed!17:08
* aquatix thinks he should watch some Lost17:09
rm_youaquatix: you tested 0.9b yet?17:09
lcukyour future self will thank you for not inflicting it on desperado17:09
aquatixrm_you: erm, 0.9b of what?17:09
* aquatix hasn't been following the conversation17:09
rm_youyou use it right?17:09
rm_yousorry, that was out of nowhere :P17:09
rm_youfollowing the conversation wouldnt have helped17:09
* aquatix is thinking what `abl' was standing for again17:10
rm_youor wait, maybe it would have. but whatever.... you use  -17:10
aquatixman, i need some coffee17:10
rm_youadvanced backlight :P17:10
aquatixoh yes!17:10
rm_youI just made that up17:10
aquatixno, don't have the new one yet17:10
rm_you0.9b is in extras-devel17:10
rm_youjust download the deb and try it out17:10
rm_youtell me if it breaks17:10
rm_youif it works decently I'll be moving it to extras by sunday night17:10
* lcuk has practically no space on his nokia17:11
rm_youI was hoping to release by friday, but ... <_<17:11
crashanddielcuk, I have 2megs left :/17:11
rm_youI need to do root on SD17:11
rm_youi am almost entirely out of space as well17:11
rm_youbut i have 20G of SD space17:11
crashanddieI'd like to wait for Diablo though17:11
lcukcrashanddie, pretty much similar, i had to uninstall loads of things just to get gcc and all dev libraries squashed on there :) but it runs better than ever now17:11
lcukgo figure..17:11
crashanddiecuz that would mean no flashing anymore17:12
aquatixadvanced-backlight_0.9b-1_i386.deb ?17:12
crashanddieso, one install, and you're done17:12
aquatixoh duh17:12
crashanddiecuz if I install now17:12
lcukrm, whats the 386 one for?17:12
* aquatix has been downloading too many deb's for his normal machine lately17:12
crashanddieI'll have to redo the whole thing once Diablo is out17:12
rm_youdunno, i dont normally build it17:12
* Jaffa is wondering if the resolution of #184 which has just been applied, to OS2006 is a "FFS" moment.17:12
lcukdoes it dim the LCD monitor?17:12
rm_youits part of the autobuilder process17:12
rm_youlol no idea17:12
rm_youprolly not17:12
lcukjaffa, link or context would help17:13
rm_youthe autobuilder that X-Fade had me use made that17:13
* lcuk is not a mindreader17:13
crashanddie"My balls ain't made of crystal"17:13
lcukdid you create the whole project in debian like format and folders or did you have to rejig everything when you started to do packaging17:13
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Jaffalcuk: - "Sorry, closing bug like wontfix. No enhancement is planned for it2006.17:14
JaffaAh, no, makes sense in light of comment #1217:15
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rm_youlcuk: I really only had like 4 files... one .c and .h, a makefile and a .desktop17:15
rm_youso... i just added the debian/ folder17:15
lcukgood point, mine is a sprawling collection of many classes17:15
rm_youSo, I'm sitting there. And in walks the biggest Mexican I have ever seen. Big as shit. Just walks right in like he owns the place.17:15
rm_youI love the guy that's saying that... In pretty much every film he's in17:16
rm_youSteve Buscemi17:16
aquatixrm_you: ok, installed; is a remove from panel and add again enough for a reload?17:16
rm_youhe was awesome in the sopranos too17:16
aquatixupdating the icon cache takes ages btw17:16
rm_youaquatix: yes17:16
crashanddieoh dear god, thank the heaven and the earth17:16
lcukjaffa, expecting a bugfix like that is like expecting MS to fix bugs ion win3.117:17
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Jaffalcuk: agreed, all I saw was a resolution in my inbox and panicked :)17:17
crashanddieI managed to repair my AC unit :D I finally have fresh air :D17:17
JaffaTime for more BSG now.17:17
lcuk:O bsg i knew i had something i needed to watch (i havent seen any of this series yet)17:17
lcukcrashanddie, if i break my air conditioning unit it gets colder in the house.  damn kids with balls and double glazed windows17:18
aquatix*crash* :)17:18
crashanddieit's like 42 here17:19
aquatixrm_you: i clicked the speaker icon17:19
rm_youit crashes like that17:19
rm_youit's in the buglist17:19
aquatixand it crashed my gui17:19
rm_youjust uncheck -> apply -> check -> apply17:19
aquatixnow my panels are gone17:19
rm_youit'll come back17:19
rm_youthat bug is annoying the crap out of mwe17:19
aquatixerm, applets i mean17:19
rm_youand I can't seem to track it down17:20
rm_youthey will return17:20
lcukhow often does it happen and is it reproducable17:20
rm_youper install17:20
rm_youand it's almost guaranteed17:20
aquatixdoes it have to do with beep on volume change?17:20
rm_youevery time i change out the .so17:20
aquatixas it didn't ;)17:21
rm_youi can trace it back till like... 0.717:21
lcukyou just switch it dont you in a preinst script17:21
rm_youi know it has something to do with the volume CHANGE17:21
rm_youbut i dont know wtf17:21
lcuki seem to recall it leaving a phantom file there right at the start when you gave me a prebeta to try17:21
rm_youi checked, double-checked, triple checked those functions17:21
aquatixseems to work fine for the rest17:21
rm_youlcuk: i mean, ANY time i change out the .so17:21
aquatixexcept that my applets still haven't shown up17:22
rm_youaquatix: yes, even volumje change will work fine now17:22
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lcuksee how other applets install themselves and make sure the older instance is not running17:22
rm_youaquatix: ... if you uncheck advanced, apply, they should come back17:22
rm_youlcuk: yeah i know how to do that, just remove the .desktop and it auto unloads17:22
aquatixoh, they are all unchecked17:22
aquatixweird stuff17:22
rm_youI am planning to do that for official 0.9b17:22
lcukuntick/tick unloads and reloads, until then if you havent told hildon that the applet has been changed it thinks the app is still the old one?17:22
rm_youlcuk: no, i mean..17:22
rm_youok, listen to this scenario17:23
rm_youthis is how i reproduce it:17:23
aquatixthere, all back17:23
lcukrm_you, you need to give it some time to unload though? and different machines will recognise its gone in different times (busy cpu etc)17:23
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rm_youchange a line of code, build the .so, properly unload the applet, copy the new .so over via scp, load the applet, change volume -> crash17:23
rm_youif I copy the over without modifying it, the crash won't happen17:24
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rm_youit will happen even if i reboot inbetween, i believe17:24
rm_youactually, i will check that17:24
rm_youthe crash happens when one of the volume change functions gets called17:24
rm_youi KNOW that17:24
lcukreboot on NIT is misnomer - it never seems to manage to shutdown errant software17:25
rm_youbut i've checked everything in there17:25
lcukhow are you ensuring the .so is unloaded?17:25
rm_youi thought for a while it was gconf stuff that was uninitialized, but i covered that scenario and it didnt help17:25
rm_youlcuk: erm...17:25
rm_youlcuk: well, this happens even on fresh installs17:25
rm_youbut, i have an unload point thing...17:26
lcukno, from outside the app how would a script or something know that it was safe to delete and replace the .so?17:26
rm_youit wouldn't >_>17:26
rm_youthe function that causes the crash:17:27
rm_youstatic void set_volume_gconf(HildonVolumebar *localvbar, gpointer user_data)17:27
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rm_youstatic void mute_volume_gconf(HildonVolumebar *localvbar, gpointer user_data)17:27
rm_youwhat they have in common is they use the gconf object17:27
rm_yougconf_client_set_int(ggclient, ... ... ...)17:27
rm_youwhich I *know* has the capability of crashing the system when used wrong, or when uninitialized17:28
rm_youbut i check for that in set_volume)gconf, and it doesn't help17:28
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lcukhmmm, you declare your variables: GConfClient * ggclient;  without an initializer, however then later you check against NULL.    might be an idea to pre-initialize them: GConfClient * ggclient=NULL;17:29
rm_youdoes it not automatically initialize as NULL?17:30
lcukjust to make sure in your own head that its NULL to begin with17:30
lcukassume NO variable is preinitialized to any value unless explicitely specified by you17:30
lcukthis isnt visual basic17:30
rm_youI don't use VB :P17:31
rm_youI use Java and C++17:31
rm_youand PHP17:31
rm_youall of those auto-null17:31
rm_you*insert hedging word here*17:31
lcukin an event driven system where code can be run before where you think it is run you should do all you can to help :)  i would go at this problem by adding some sort of logging at all function head/foot to indicate the run order :)17:33
lcukif you get other bugs like this and you've initialized everything add the logging and walk the code17:33
lcukint lastvalue=0;   int allow_zero=0; and the rest??? :P17:35
rm_youthose don't cause problems, I believe, tho you have a point >_>17:35
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rm_youshould the struct be NULL?17:36
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lcukpointers should be nulled, i tend to stay away from global static structures where i can help it but force init with struct abc a = {0}; or similar17:37
lcukto force the initial fields used for testing are null17:37
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lcukis there a test script included in the source, if so i can compile and test and compile and test for you if you like17:38
rm_youtest script?17:38
lcukyer something to install it without the .deb17:39
rm_youlike, stage directions type of script?17:39
rm_youI removed that :/17:39
rm_youI could grab it again17:39
lcuklol thats ok, how do you do testing17:39
rm_youI just scp the file into place17:39
lcukwithout removing all the other stuff?17:39
lcukor unitializing it?17:39
rm_youuncheck applet, apply17:40
rm_youscp file into place17:40
rm_yourecheck applet, apply17:40
rm_youchange volume17:40
lcukill take a look in a bit and see if i can configure my env to get it working17:41
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lcuk_afkback later17:41
rm_youwill try this17:41
rm_youwow, i just got a crash on unloading it17:42
rm_youdidnt crash17:43
rm_youmaybe that was it?17:43
rm_youwon't be able to tell for sure without a LOT of testing tho17:44
rm_youthat may be what I get for assuming things get automatically declared as NULL like in Java17:44
rm_youand PHP17:44
rm_youand other semi-intelligent languages >_>17:44
lcuk_afkc expects an intelligent human :)17:45
lcuk_afkupdate your latest and ill see if i can reproduce and cleanse for you17:45
rm_youmaybe it shouldnt O_o17:45
lcuk_afkthen use another language17:45
rm_youk i am committing17:45
rm_youi wanted to17:45
rm_youC is the only thing supported well for statusbar apps17:45
rm_youJava on NIT is not really an option17:45
rm_youpython has like half of the hildon libraries BROKEN17:46
rm_youC++ isn't fully implemented either17:46
rm_youonly C >_<17:46
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* Stskeeps hugs his debian installer17:48
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rm_youdamn, didn't fix it17:51
rm_youstill crashed17:51
rm_youon volume change17:51
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summatusmentishi lopz17:54
summatusmentisand qwerty1217:54
qwerty12hi summatusmentis :)17:54
lopzheya summatusmentis !17:54
* summatusmentis puts on his Wal-Mart greeter's vest17:55
GeneralAntilleslcuk, pong.17:55
rm_youlcuk_afk: well, i will mess with it more tomorrow... currently everything I have is committed. I am wondering if maybe the update_icon there is breaking due to something with my character arrays? I will check17:55
rm_youGeneralAntilles: yo17:55
rm_youGeneralAntilles: working on #259317:55
GeneralAntillesDon't throw those numbers at me like our tracker is bugzilla. :P :D17:56
rm_youheading to sleep... bbl17:56
qwerty12Hmm, anyone know what idev is? (Kernel wise)17:58
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aquatixan apple device17:59
aquatixi kid, i kid ;)17:59
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, ping.18:01
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qwerty12~lart headset for not staying charged18:08
* infobot whips headset with a wet and grimy noodle just because for not staying charged18:08
GeneralAntillesJaffa, ping.18:08
summatusmentisqwerty12: an idev in what context?18:11
qwerty12summatusmentis, I wish I knew :/, I'm looking at the nokia kernel source and I'm looking into retu-headset.c and I see a lot of idev's, I'm just curious18:12
summatusmentisbasing it on my vanilla kernel source, looks like an idev is either a struct input_dev, or a struct input_polled_dev, or a struct inet6_dev18:13
qwerty12Hmm, input_polled_dev or input_dev makes sense, thanks18:14
summatusmentisand it's used in drivers for ati remote's, so I'm assuming it's an input device18:14
qwerty12Yeah, I guess the headset button counts as input. I'm trying to get it to do something useful instead of making the screen light up.18:15
summatusmentiscan you paste one of the lines using an idev?18:15
qwerty12A bit more than a line: :/18:17
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lardmanafternoon all18:22
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lcuk_afkGeneralAntilles, its ok now, just damn spamming on the wiki is bad, i wasnt aware anon edits were allowed - i just culled it from the page where i saw it18:23
GeneralAntillesHi, lardman.18:23
lcuk_afkhi lardman!   just woke up after your boozing session?18:23
GeneralAntilleslcuk_afk, I went ahead and blocked for 24 hours.18:24
GeneralAntillesWe need to discuss the anon edit situation18:24
lardmannot far off, hang-over from hell this morning18:24
lardmanwent out for dinner with some friends, bad to mix wine + beer repeatedly18:24
lcuk_afkummm GeneralAntilles i sense a flaw in your plan18:24
aquatixlardman: sounds fun ;)18:24
lardmanaquatix: I blame it on my not drinking much this week, liver's not used to it any more :)18:25
aquatixheheh, same here18:25
aquatixnot drinking enough18:25
lcuk_afki think a turing test would be good, get people to answer questions only NIT owners would know the answers of18:25
leachim6_can you install the canola2 mediaservers plugin on os2006 ?18:25
aquatixlike `what is advanced backlight and why does it crash on click?'18:25
leachim6_it doesn't seem to be in the canola repo18:25
GeneralAntilleslcuk_afk, lol. I wonder if there's a CAPTCHA plugin we could do that with.18:25
GeneralAntillesI actually REALLY like that idea.18:26
lcuk_afki was just gonna remove the afk, btu im being called away again, back later18:26
lardmanlcuk_afk, GeneralAntilles: I don't know the answer to that, ask something like what's written in the version string in the control panel18:26
lardmanwhat's the problem anyway?18:26
lcuk_afkporn spam18:27
lcuk_afkactually, its worse: BAD porn spam18:27
lardmanemail, or itt?18:27
lardmanah, ok18:27
lcuk_afkmalformed porn spam with dead links into google docs or something18:27
aquatixah, so not even any fun18:28
* lcuk_afk wouldnt have complained if it was relivent, but im not going to invoke rule 34 and 35 on it18:28
leachim6_so how do I get the canola media servers plugin ?18:28
aquatixapt? :)18:28
leachim6_I tried18:29
leachim6_It's not in there18:29
leachim6_I go to the canola site and click install and application manager says "not found?"18:29
* aquatix tries too18:30
lcuk_afkthe install is setup only for latest os i think18:30
GeneralAntillesleachim6_, it's in Extras.18:30
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leachim6_how do I do it18:30
lcuk_afkhes asking for 2006 i think18:30
leachim6_I am18:30
leachim6_I had os2008 on here ... but it was painfully unstable18:30
lardmanmakes me happy :)18:30
GeneralAntillesleachim6_, did you enable swap?18:30
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leachim6_that made it usable18:31
qwerty12Is a bluez/bluetooth thing?18:32
leachim6_who owns ?18:32
aquatixmeh, are the maemo repositories down or something18:33
GeneralAntillesFine here, aquatix.18:33
leachim6_well the ones on are18:34
leachim6_and that has becomeroot18:34
leachim6_so I can't do anything18:34 easyroot18:34
leachim6_thanks18:34 only has stuff for nokia n81018:35
leachim6_I am a 77018:35
lardmanqwerty12: no idea, why do you ask?18:35
aquatixah, they work again indeed18:36
GeneralAntillesleachim6_, easyroot works on everything.18:36
leachim6_I got it18:37
qwerty12lardman, Someone's written code to make a button on the bluetooth headset to make the media player play and pause. I want to try and make it work with the wired headset but I'm not sure if is for wired, bluetooth or both.18:37
leachim6_are there any canola devs in here ?18:37
qwerty12Go to #canola18:37
lardmanqwerty12: I see. Good luck :)18:37
JaffaGeneralAntilles: pong18:37
Jaffalardman: lo18:37
lardmanhi Jaffa18:38
JaffaGeneralAntilles: I guess the IP is cos Apache is proxying to HTTPS and so we don't see the real IP. Effectively, therefore, banning is banning anon edits over HTTP (AFAICT)18:38
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I blocked for 24 hours.18:38
GeneralAntillesYes, that's correct, Jaffa.18:38
GeneralAntillesI also upgraded your user permissions. ;)18:38
GeneralAntillesWe need to discuss the anon edit situation, though.18:39
JaffaTa :)18:39
lcuk_afkhey jaffa, now you finally have more admin rights than the buttyboy18:39
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I like lcuk's NIT questions CAPTCHA.18:39
lardmanbmidgley: ping18:40
JaffaHas mediawiki got a captcha plugin?18:40
JaffaWe need a Talk page on it18:40
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I was looking over them.18:40
GeneralAntillesThere may be a built-in one.18:41
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qwerty12~lart DBUS for being a PITA18:47
* infobot takes out a seltzer bottle and sprays DBUS in the face. You know, one of those old-school seltzer bottles clowns have? Yeah those. Anyway, consider yourself spritzed for being a PITA18:47
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qwerty12Ah, I'm looking at the SessionBus, I've changed it to system and the program isn't conking out on me now :)18:50
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lardmanoops, of the kernel variety18:53
qwerty12I'm still unsure how to use that Nokia tool to read oops/kernel panics from a mtd device :/18:54
lardmaninteresting what Igor said about the IVA and how the MMU can access its peripherals (that was my reading anyway)18:54
lardmanqwerty12: no idea, I just see them whenever a DSP task fails its poll message18:55
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lcuk_afklardman, where did you read the iva/mmu stuff - that kinda fits in with what i read about the other co-processors18:59
lardmanwow, almost 2s of noise now :)18:59
lardmanlcuk_afk: the link I gae above to itt18:59
GeneralAntilleslardman, 6 more months and we'll be able to get a whole 3 minute song? :D :P19:00
lcuk_afkthe one i didnt scrollbackto ;)19:00
lardmanGeneralAntilles: never know ;)19:00
lardmanlcuk_afk: In the ITT thread on what do we want to see in the N90019:00
lardmanlast page19:01
lcuk_afklardman, just saw19:02
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GeneralAntillesWe can ban specific IPs over https19:03
lcuk_afkdon't ban me for testing :'(19:05
lardmanah, I think I see the mistake19:06
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ProteousBAN BAN BAN19:16
ProteousShe turned me into a newt!19:17
Proteous"A newt?"19:17
ProteousWell, I got better19:17
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lardmanhi ssvb19:19
lardman4.5s now :)19:19
lardmanssvb: I've implemented on chip memory only SARAM though and 32bit memcpy, but still too slow19:20
ssvband what was the previous benchmark result?19:21
lardmanabout 1.5s19:21
lardmanso it's better, but still not real time19:21
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gpd anyone got a 'simple' way to export maemo-mapper poi.db waypoints to KML?19:23
gpdI have extracted to CSV but now need to get to KML - possibly via some other format via GPSbabel - but all a bit of a pain19:24
ssvblardman: and how much does it take to process one file without using bluetooth stack? just to estimate how much slower than realtime it is?19:25
lardmanssvb: I'll have a look see19:25
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ssvblardman: there is one more problem: memory shared with DSP is not cached from the ARM side19:26
ssvblardman: so it is much slower to access from ARM core as well19:26
lardmanI'm using a bulk transfer rather than a shared buffer19:26
ssvblardman: do you think it makes a big difference?19:27
lardmanssvb: not really, as I'd need to make a similar number of calls somehow to keep synchronised19:27
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lardmanhmm, curiously when encoding a file at default settings, the sw method takes longer than the DSP method19:29
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lardmanactually the same time -> sw = 1.82+0.17+0.25s DSP = 1.72+0.17+0.35s19:30
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lardmanhmm, but that's my fall back method, and it doesn't play very well actually19:30
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ssvblardman: and how many arm<->dsp communication operations are performed?19:31
lardmanLet me see if I have an old copy of sbcenc from the old Bluez19:31
ssvblardman: this is also a bit slow19:31
lardmanssvb: ~500019:31
ssvblardman: and what is the duration of audio file?19:32
lardmanssvb: no idea, it's not actually in the correct format19:32
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lardmanI can't seem to find any BE 32bit test files19:32 files that is19:33
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ssvblardman: can you decode this file to .wav and try to see the duration of this wav in any audio player?19:34
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lardmanssvb: let me see with one of the longer files19:34
lcuk_afkssvb, quick sidetrack,  the glyph blitter from yesterday.  i improved it further by restoring the 16bit copy if required after the 32bit and before the final 8bit (instead of just jumping from 32 to do upto 3 single bytes).  this gave me another similar boost.   in the things i am blitting this fine tuning gives a boost because most glyphs are small and of odd lengths most of the time anyway (common to only be looping for <16pixe19:36
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lardmanssvb: Right, 29s au file. SW decoder = 3.52+3.39+0.12s, DSP decoder = 19.38+0.24+3.70s19:39
ssvblardman: and how many chunks of data are fed to dsp per second on average?19:40
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ssvblardman: I did some simple 'ping' test, and looks like you can only have ~2500 arm<->dsp communication operations per second on N8x019:44
lardmanssvb: ok, am just recompiling with gprof so I can see how many calls are made19:44
ssvblardman: that's with dsp doing nothing and returning immediately19:44
ssvblardman: feeding dsp with larger buffers can improve performance if that's the case19:45
lardmanssvb: unfortunately I'm stuck with only passing 256 8bit bytes every time19:45
ssvblardman: that's way too low19:45
lardmanunless I want to dig far deeper into the way Bluez handles its data19:46
lardmanyeah I knpw19:46
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ssvblardman: but you can experiment with a standalone sbcenc program19:47
lardmanyes, but that's not very much use for people :)19:47
ssvblardman: first you need to figure out the source of the bottleneck :)19:47
lardmanssvb: Yeah, I know19:48
ssvblardman: in order not waste efforts optimizing parts of code which are not performance critical at the moment19:48
qwerty12Well, I did it, now the headset button actually plays/pauses the song instead of looking pretty and making my backlight come on.19:49
ssvblardman: can you try the opposite test, artificially double the number of arm<->dsp communications?19:49
lardmanssvb: yes, should be possible19:50
lardmanstrange, looks like data were passed only 5021 times19:50
lardmanthat's strangely like the other file19:51
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lardmanah, the other file was using the same data19:51
lardmanright, so 5021 ARM->DSP bulk transfers19:52
lardmanin ~20s it appears19:52
lardmanlooks like I'm passing 256 16bit bytes in fact (which is probably right) the file is 2.5MB in size19:53
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lardmanI looked at timing sbcenc calling the DSP and returning immediately, but as no data was being processed I could not fool sbcenc into stopping19:56
lardmanI need to take another look at that and then time with no data processing occuring (just returning an empty buffer)19:57
lardmananyway, I'd guess that the time is being used up in the processing rather than the transferring19:58
ssvblardman: you can try using erm encoder and dummy dsp calls19:59
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lardmanyes, I suppose the ARM encoder is quite quick19:59
ssvblardman: it's better not to guess, but benchmark, otherwise you can lose a lot of time by making a wrong decision at some moment :)19:59
lardmanssvb: I know :) I was just doing a quick optimisation on the off chance it would work20:00
lardmanssvb: I'll do some tweaking later on and fool the arm-side code into thinking I'm decoding when I'm not20:01
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ssvblardman: anyway I wonder, wouldn't decoding on ARM core using VFP the best choice for sbc?20:02
lardmanssvb: I was hoping to simply reduce the ARM load, not compete with it and write a faster decoder20:03
lardmanssvb: I'm not sure about the relative speeds of vfp vs fixed point encoder speeds20:03
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ssvblardman: VFP should be faster, it has higher peak throughput for multiply-accumulate operations20:04
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ssvblardman: the problem is that VFP also has a lot worse latency, so code needs to be carefully optimized for it20:07
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lardmanssvb: Interesting that tremor is faster than vorbis20:09
ssvblardman: I just need to tune ffvorbis decoder a bit more, to make its advantage over tremor much more visible20:09
lardmanah, ok :)20:09
lardmanssvb: Well that's worth a look20:09
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ssvblardman: it does not prove anything, libvorbis itself is just slow :)20:09
lardmanssvb: I'll test to see what the dsp<->arm comms and copy overhead is and see if the code is the bottleneck20:09
lardmanssvb: yeah, that was what I was going to ask - needs optimisation20:10
ssvblardman: communication and copy overhead is very interesting to know20:10
lardmanssvb: There should also be lots of opportunities for dsp optimisation in the sbc code, which should be interesting20:11
lardmanI'll let you know how I get on20:11
lardmangot to go cook now20:11
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ssvblardman: regarding libvorbis, I guess it was never developed for high performance, it is a reference decoder20:11
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GeneralAntillesHowdy, sjgadsby.20:14
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* GOD27 Visit (upload pic make mag) - (play with webcam online) - (insulter/anon email) - (fun) - (put your face on funny body) - (health)20:20
*** GOD27 changes topic to "-=[ http://WWW.WHAK.COM EDY\\Radio ]=- Make Funny Graphics Online At =)"20:20
GOD27http://www.WHAK.COM EDY radio - (watch theater movies) - (appz) - to (chat anywhere, web IRC client) - (Canada eh) - (geeks)20:20
-GOD27- http://www.SillyWebcam.com20:20
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GeneralAntillesFuckin' eh20:21
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GeneralAntillesAnybody have the old one handy? :\20:21
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RST38xqwerty: who are the motherfuckers of the moment?20:30
qwerty12_N800heh, some spammer setting the topic to porn sites20:30
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RST38xKILL, definitely20:35
GeneralAntillesHe left before he got the k-line. :(20:35
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RST38xtrack him down, destroy, then victoriouslly feast on his corpse!20:39
* RST38x feels vengeful tonight - gprs at the edge of coverage area sucks20:40
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summatusmentisRST38bis: that's rough20:44
summatusmentisI'm probably going to sprint soon, w/ 1x data20:44
RST38biswell, normally it is ok - just don't load images and prefer google mobile flavor20:46
RST38bisbut connection frequently drops when at the edge of the coverage20:46
GAN800Diablo MicroB finally has the ability to turn images off from the menu. Woo20:47
sp3000GeneralAntilles: can you reproduce on diablo?20:47
sp3000or am I just confusing things and mixing up chinook and diablo variants of this sort of issue20:48
GAN800Considering that's it's my bug, sp3000, then yes. ;)20:48
sp3000well, no, but comment 4 specifically20:48
infobotGAN800 meant: Considering that it's my bug, sp3000, then yes. ;)20:49
GAN800Ah, ok, one sec.20:49
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GAN800Diablo xterm fixed most of the virtual input issues I was having in Chinook.20:50
sp3000RST38bis: meh ...invite it back, /then/ kill it20:50
GAN800Yeah, sp3000, that issue was fixed for Diablo. Works fine here.20:50
RST38bisgood idea20:51
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sp3000GAN800: so it was reproducible in chinook?20:51
sp3000comment to that effect?20:51
sp3000thanks :)20:52
GeneralAntillesI think there's a bug for that xterm issue that I resolved, actually.20:52
sp3000at some point there writing the str I got a feeling of deja vu :P20:53
sp3000not quite sure if I wrote it last time and on which bugzilla, though20:53
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GeneralAntillesThis is the one:
sp3000oh, meh "return key"20:57
sp3000oh well, bugzilla noise ftw :D21:00
GeneralAntillesI'm just glad we're still under 10k bugs.21:00
GeneralAntillesI can't imagine working with 500k21:00
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RST38bisga: there is a more serious bug masking this one21:04
RST38bis"can't invoke finger keyboard" on n81021:05
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, the Apache crashes with the wiki make me :(((.21:06
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summatusmentiswhat're people's must have apps? I've read the ITT topic on it21:26
GeneralAntillessummatusmentis, I'm pretty sure I already gave that list to you. :P21:27
RST38bissumma: are you looking for something specific?21:27
DekaritaeSomething called openbox has appears in my application manager. It claims to be a new window manager21:28
GeneralAntillesDekaritae, don't bother with it.21:28
DekaritaeHow so?21:28
GeneralAntillesIf you don't know what it is, you don't need it. ;)21:29
summatusmentisRST38bis: I'm not sure... no, nothing specific, I'm just trying to use my n810 to it's full potential21:29
summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: oh, ok. I'll check my logs then21:29
DekaritaeIs it one of those things that requires chroot to debian?21:29
sp3000sigh, why do people's debian/control descriptions suck too often21:29
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summatusmentiswhat's a mae mouser?21:30
GeneralAntillessp3000, we need a bot that spams maintainers with crappy deb descriptions.21:30
kkrustynew-maemo-user :D but I get your joke21:30
sp3000GeneralAntilles: yeah, a bot made of meat most likely :P21:31
summatusmentislol, oh. that wasn't actually intended as a joke...21:31
newmaemouserheh, hello21:31
summatusmentisI apparently can't read21:31
RST38bisfbreader, vagalume, canola, maemo mapper, numpty physiics,  pidgin, xchat, evince, color  lines21:31
kkrustysummatusmentis: Well no, whitespace characters just became out of fashion21:32
kkrustyno offense newmaemouser21:32
RST38bisnethack, skype, battle gweled, stardict21:32
summatusmentisRST38bis: I've got all of those i might use except vagalume and numpty physics :)21:32
GeneralAntillesNumpty you have to try.21:33
GeneralAntillesTried Quake I/II, too?21:33
RST38bisyou 're all set then21:33
DekaritaeI am still reading books on my Palm with Plucker because FBReader won't show me whether I've read a document or not21:33
newmaemouserNone taken, kkrusty21:33
GeneralAntillesDekaritae, file an enhancement request?21:34
summatusmentiswhat books does FBreader read? where do you get them?21:34
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RST38bisdekaritae: you don't remember what you have read?21:34
newmaemouserwhat is red pill mode - some type of dev mode?21:34
lcuk_afkDekaritae, sure it does, just open the book, if it opens at the end the chances are you have read it ;)21:34
DekaritaeI use Sunrise XP to download a few dozen web sites and feeds for offline reading21:34
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GeneralAntillessummatusmentis, pretty much anything that's not DRM.21:34
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RST38bissumma: it will readd ascii and html21:34
lcukthough some formats are faster than otehrs21:34
Dekaritaelcuk_afk: The files are mostly feed compilations, and FBReader doesn't keep track of which links have been visited21:35
RST38biswon'tt read drmed crap21:35
lcukits not an rss feed reader thats why ;21:35
GeneralAntillesnewmaemouser, if you don't know what it is you don't need it. ;) But, basically, it's an override mode for Application manager that disables some safety checks and opens up a few other options.21:35
DekaritaeIt doesn't need to be it just needs to be able to mark visited links as visited21:35
summatusmentisso... the places to go to get ebooks, outside of gutenburg, won't work with fbreader?21:35
GeneralAntillesBaen and Tor have a bunch of non-drm stuff.21:36
RST38bisdeka: you are trying to use it for unnatural things21:36
lcuksorry, i thought you were talking about a book reader not a webbrowser21:36
summatusmentisalso, fbreader isn't in extras?21:36
RST38bisssumma: lib.ru21:36
DekaritaeI want to use it as an offline website reader because microB does not have decent reading controls21:36
GeneralAntillessummatusmentis, they have their own damn repo for some damn reason. :\21:36
JaffaO.M.G. Next week's Doctor Who.... FFS21:36
RST38bissumma: :]21:37
kkrustyDekaritae: httrack?21:37
DekaritaeHow would that help?21:37
lcukDekaritae, :)i realise you want to do lots of thing and im not tryign to be difficult, but the software doesnt appear to have the full featureset you desire.  however its OSS perhaps you could make it do it21:37
kkrustyI thought you meant that you need some way to get offline copies of websites to read. But I get what you want now... nevermind that21:38
newmaemouserGeneral, I was just trying to install rtcomm so I could get something more intergrated than pidgin, on your suggestion21:38
DekaritaeNo, everything up to the point of having the document in FBReader works perfectly, and it reads the documents perfectly21:38
GeneralAntillesnewmaemouser, add the Collabora repo from gronmayer and install the appropriate Telepathy plugin instead.21:38
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GeneralAntillesLittle more robust for the time being.21:38
DekaritaeJust that I open it up and have no idea if a particular document has been updated or not. Zero indicators21:38
lcukDekaritae, perfect, so extend it a little :)21:38
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lcukive not heard of anyone wanting that feature yet, have you had a look on the site to see if its been requested by others?21:39
* lcuk really should see if he can integrate liqbase rendering into fbreader 21:40
DekaritaeI haven't found a bug tracker for it21:40
lcukheh :D
lcukhmmmmm "I'd be willing to put up a bounty for this feature."21:43
summatusmentissomeone should hildonize oo.o21:45
lcuksmall job, could be done in a could of hours (given enough monkeys)21:45
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summatusmentisdoesn't numpty physics get aggravating?21:51
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kkrustysummatusmentis: I find myself making slopes with a ball rolling for each level21:52
kkrustysummatusmentis: I dont get past the level after the bridge level21:53
summatusmentisbut it just starts falling!!21:53
GeneralAntillesPRess center dpad21:53
kkrustythen you can have objects of different colors fall :D21:53
* kkrusty kids21:54
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newmaemouserChinook is the current version of the OS, correct?  Diablo is not out yet?21:57
inzChinook is the current version of the SDK21:59
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Jaffainz: that's not entirely clear or consistent, though. After all, the repos *for the device* refer to the codename; and correspond to a specific Maemo (SDK) version which is the underpinning of the OS.22:05
JaffaHopefully, the new branding will make it clearer.22:05
GeneralAntillesThe new branding already does.22:06
GeneralAntillesSee the "Maemo 4" entry.22:06
GeneralAntilles"Maemo 4 - A specific Maemo release. Each release gets a codename first, corresponding to the name of a wind (i.e. Chinook). The codename is valid during the development phase, becoming Maemo n when it's launched."22:06
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lcukPlucker Viewer:   whos seen it in action and does it do fullscreen scrolling?22:13
summatusmentisoh.. that makes it easier :D22:13
summatusmentisbye for now22:14
RST38bisppl will still use  codename after the release.22:16
GeneralAntillesI know I will.22:18
JaffaGeneralAntilles: indeed. Chinook refers to Maemo 4 which is a version of Maemo which is an "Open source software platform for mobile devices". "maemo Linux based OS2008" (should really be "maemo Linux-based OS2008" IMHO) for pre-Fremantle refers to an OS release22:19
lcukmrs lcuk is calling me a gimp :)(22:22
GeneralAntillesI still want a straight answer on Maemo/Maemo OS. . . .22:22
lcukgah! sketching with the mouse is so wrong now.22:25
RST38bisimho, this stuff is irrelevant and should be leftto nokia marketing22:25
summatusmentisshe's calling you a gimp?are you injured?22:26
RST38bispowervr and jazelle supportt are relevant22:26
JaffaRST38bis: Except we get newbie users asking if "chinook is the current version of the OS", and inz correcting that chinook refers to an SDK version. Therefore it *isn't* irrelevant.22:26
RST38bisjafffa: have a faq web page specifically for them22:27
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Jaffabut the point is there isn't an answer yet, so determining that answer is the current job22:27
RST38bisand direct them there.22:28
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RST38bisjaffa: it is something nokia decides not community22:28
GeneralAntillesRST38bis, you stick to what you think is important and we'll stick to things we think are important. :P22:30
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RST38bisall i am saying is that branding is completely up to nokia22:31
RST38bisif they decide to mess it up, it will be messed up22:32
GeneralAntillesMostly, but it's certainly not "irrelevant"22:32
newmaemouserI just installed telepathy, but I can't seem to add a new account other than google/jabber/etc. In chat22:32
lardman|afknewmaemouser: you need to install the beta22:33
RST38bisga:  irrelevant for developers, totally relevant for nokia22:33
JaffaRST38bis: but if we can ask questions and probe them, when we get newbies we can point them at those pages.22:33
JaffaRST38bis: not irrelevant for developers who are part of a wider community22:33
JaffaOr, if you prefer, s/developers/anyone/22:34
GeneralAntillesnewmaemouser, you probably need to restart.22:34
GeneralAntilleslardman|afk, he's installing the Collabora plugins.22:35
lardman|afkah ok, sorry for the noise22:35
newmaemouserGeneral - alright.  Just not used to rebooting in linux unless I update the kernel :)22:37
JaffaRST38bis: You're right, of course, that PowerVR (or, rather, accelerated 3D) and Jazelle (or, rather, a performant Java environment) are - ultimately - more important, both to developers and end-users and the community as a whole. *However*, there's nothing that can be done about them at the moment. We've raised our concern about these things to Nokia, and accelerated 3D does appear to be on the way at some point (future devices, probably). Jalimo is startin22:37
JaffaJava so Nokia are taking a backseat, and don't view it as a priority.22:38
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GeneralAntillesnewmaemouser, did you install both the account-plugin-haze and telepathy-haze?22:43
newmaemouserJust telepathy22:44
GeneralAntillesInstall the account-plugin-haze or accounts-telepathy-plugin or whatever it's called.22:44
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newmaemouserThat did it :)22:45
lardman|afkJaffa: There may be something we can do about both - work out how they work... :)22:47
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Jaffalardman: truuuuueeeee, but I'm begining to suspect the N900 with OpenGL ES will be released running fremantle or harmattan before you finish bootstrapping PowerVR from PepperPad or other reverse engineering ;-)22:48
lardmanJaffa: Agreed22:48
lardmanJaffa: But it's never wasted effort22:48
JaffaNo, you seem to be having fun :)22:48
newmaemouser Thanks, General22:48
* Jaffa wishes he had the time, and his skills in the area weren't so rusty to help more directly.22:49
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lardmanJaffa: There are of course issues with Jazelle; it shouldn't be rocket science to reverse engineer it, which makes me wonder if ARM's legal dept are quick to counter such things22:49
* Jaffa is more at home *writing* Java and tweaking existing ARM assembler, than reverse engineering a CPU extension22:49
* lcuk bends your arm22:50
Jaffalardman: the number of ARM device owners where the device a) has Jazelle, b) doesn't use it, c) is open enough to allow you to hack on it without worrying about other things first might be a fairly small pool.22:50
lardmanit appears to be little more than some coprocessor registers that need to be written to22:50
lcukive always thought it was just like switching between thumb and full22:51
lardmanyes, just the method that was problematic22:51
lcuknot at all like the dsp hoops..22:51
lardmanjust different22:52
lcukjaffa, regarding your updated n900 before pvr etc working.  even if that is the case, the n8x0 wont vanish overnight and it would still be good to put a tick in the right place.22:53
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Jaffalcuk: oh, agreed, but lardman's interest may wane when he gets a shiny new toy with its own challenges to overcome22:53
lcuklook at the work still ongoing for 770 and tearfree etc.  it helps those who cannot afford to replace a device on a whim22:53
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lcukas will lots of peoples, but lardmans work (or mine eventually) may be picked up by a young bright thing who wants to get the most out of the platform22:54
lardmanJaffa: yes, I'm sure it will wane somewhat, not sure how much...22:54
lardmanlcuk: indeed22:54
Jaffalcuk: absolutely, so as lardman says: never waster22:55
infobotJaffa meant: lcuk: absolutely, so as lardman says: never wasted22:55
lcukthere was a time when the amiga era ended that i thought i would never again be able to code and hack like i do today on this device22:55
lcukthe skills are wasted on big fast nvidias but the challenges do remain22:55
* lcuk will be dound rendering on touchscreen pocketwatches next22:56
bennyrobohas anyone got celluon bt projection keyboard to work with n800/n810?22:56
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GeneralAntillesProjection keyboard? ew.22:57
lardmanGeneralAntilles: Have to project on a squishy surface to get tactile feedback :) ?22:58
bennyroboa laser projects a keyboard onto desk.22:58
GeneralAntilleslardman, get yourself a Das Keyboard to project onto. :D22:58
lardmanGeneralAntilles: :)22:59
lardmanssvb has gone22:59
* GeneralAntilles plays the blues.23:00
bennyroboi guess that as nobody has sais yes... then thats a resounding - nope23:00
lardmananyway, looks like the data transfer takes ~2.5s alone, so the rest of the ~18s is processing23:00
lardmanbennyrobo: no, sorry23:00
newmaemouserGeneralantilles - I have accounts (exc. IRC) added, but my contacts aren't retrieved from the server.23:00
bennyrobonee probs.  is the right place to ask this sort of question?23:01
GeneralAntillesnewmaemouser, I don't know.23:01
GeneralAntillesSometimes it takes a while for some people, I think.23:01
lardmannewmaemouser: Might be better sent to the ml23:02
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Jaffalardman|afk: "gone" - as in gone gone forever, or just AFK/vacation/BBIAB-type "gone"?!23:03
GeneralAntillesHe's buying an iPhone.23:03
GeneralAntillesand smashing his N810 to bits and putting it on YouTube.23:03
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lcukGeneralAntilles, nahhhh he would never sell out.  his nokia cellphone is perfect,  however he is getting an ipod touch :P23:10
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GeneralAntilles ehehe23:57
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qwerty12_N800hah, KJ got pwned23:59

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