IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2008-06-20

Maximandershould I just delete all my rootstraps and redownload/install?00:00
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RST38hMaxim: this is what I have been going to suggest00:01
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Maximanderokay, yeah, that worked. *Grumble* now i have to go install all my other packages again00:08
Maximander(I had alot of deps installed inside sb for building things)00:08
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lardmanAtarii: ping00:47
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GeneralAntillesUgh, the wiki's getting more broken. :\00:59
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jmc93739653GeneralAntilles:  Is it just outdated wiki content, or is the wiki getting spammed into oblivion?  (I know they were moving the wiki from Midgard to MediaWiki, but I haven't kept up on any migration specifics aside from the initial mention....)01:18
GeneralAntillesSpammed?01:18
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GeneralAntillesApparently the apache threads are segfaulting for some reason, but I don't think it has anything to do with spam.01:20
jmc93739653(Like junk article commits or fake comments in the Talk entries for the articles.)01:20
GeneralAntillesWhere? https://wiki.maemo.org/Special:Recentchanges01:21
lcukor it could just be an unstable server hosting box.  it could be seriously underpowered and inside a vm on someones n77001:21
jmc93739653Gah, OK, Apache taking a dive isn't something that community initiative could instantly fix.01:21
jmc93739653I thought it was just general wiki degradation .  (Articles getting more and more out-of-sync with current events/realities.)01:22
lcukthe nokia guys might be using it as a quake server during night hours ;)01:22
GeneralAntillesI know I would be.01:23
lcukit works perfectly whilst you're asleep gen :P01:23
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GeneralAntillesPizza Hut got cinnamon on my breadsticks. :<01:23
m-volcuk, we only play Mario Cart.01:25
lcuk:D heh01:25
GeneralAntillesCart? Is that a Nokia fork? :P01:25
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GeneralAntillesm-vo, still in progress, and you've seen some of it, but this might interest you. ;) https://wiki.maemo.org/User:GeneralAntilles/Improving_the_Application_manager01:26
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jmc93739653GeneralAntilles, the Column View looks *good*.01:30
GeneralAntillesThanks!01:31
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jmc93739653Might be easier for new users to grok since it would share many UI/UX concepts with Modest too.  Tree View is tight too, but at first glace I didn't get that there were categories with their specific entrants beneath them.  (That's what I get for looking at the screenshots and _then_ reading....)01:34
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GeneralAntillesjmc93739653, it'd probably be easier to understand when you have something tappable in front of you.01:37
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fugitivohello01:39
m-voGeneralAntilles, nice work!01:39
m-voHaven01:39
fugitivoi'm trying to make a home plugin like the rss reader, I'm stuck in the alpha/cairo stuff, is any source code example in C?01:39
m-vo't seen the page itself yet, but I saw the category mockups.01:40
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m-voThe only category view that has a chance with our UI style direction is the grid view.01:41
m-voPannable with kinetic scrolling, of course.01:41
* lcuk smiles01:41
fugitivoany idea?01:42
lcukfugitivo, i think ive seen something during my wanders, but i really cant remember where01:42
lcuktry googling something like "maemo desktop applet c" ..01:43
fugitivoi found a lot of examples in python, but none in C01:43
lcukm-vo, are you talking current device or pie in the sky future stuff01:44
m-vofuture stuff01:44
GeneralAntillesFremantle is sounding more and more interesting. . . .01:44
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lcukneed horsepower to do that though :) this is proper 3d transitions in qt then i gather01:45
AStormm-vo: no pie menus?01:46
acydlordfremantle makes me think of frenulum for some reason01:46
AStormacydlord: that's just you01:46
acydlordso good news01:46
acydlordthe n810 can apparently take a 7 foot drop onto concrete without so much as a scratch01:46
AStormacydlord: not really, screen is too fragile01:47
AStormif it falls on the back, then yes01:47
fugitivoacydlord: my n810 was scratched by the car holder easily01:47
acydlordit fell on the left side01:47
GeneralAntillesQt, lcuk? :\01:48
AStormfugitivo: it proves you can't use it properly01:49
AStormanyway, I need to know how to build a working kernel with DVFS01:49
lcukm-vo, have you seen the kinetic stuff ive done on current hardware?01:49
fugitivoAStorm: yeah right01:49
fugitivoAStorm: i forgot the tablets are for nerds and not for end users01:49
AStormotherwise, it's no game and n810 is dead after 10h or so01:50
lcukacydlord, was your keyboard out at the time - mine was and it cushioned the fall01:50
AStormfugitivo: not really ;P01:50
m-voi have seen some demos, not sure it was yours.01:50
AStormthey are sturdy01:50
acydlordkeyboard was closed, popped open when it bounced01:50
lcukbook reading and sketching01:50
lcukwith a big graffiti wall :D01:50
AStormacydlord: my n810 has had worse falls w/o damage, so?01:51
lcukhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUPp_mE7rwI01:51
AStormgot my kickstand slightly bent01:51
fugitivoAStorm: using the car holder is too dificult, i can't do it, oh god why i'm so stupid!01:51
AStormfugitivo: that sarcasm is lost on me :)01:51
acydlordi had the car holder on a belt clip for awhile01:51
AStormyou've admitted yourself ;P01:51
acydlordi wish someone made a slim abs belt holster, bastards01:52
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fugitivoacydlord: well01:52
summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: why do you say freemantle is sounding more interesting?01:52
GeneralAntillessummatusmentis, lots of reasons.01:52
GeneralAntillesJust little hints here and there.01:52
lcuki have nominated one pocket to be nokia pocket, NOTHING else goes in it so theres nothing to scratch it01:52
GeneralAntillesStuff about PowerVR from LinuxTag01:53
GeneralAntillesUI stuff from various places (bugzilla, mostly)01:53
acydlordlcuk, that would be my left pocket, or the right cargo on all my rei pants01:53
GeneralAntillesHint about Xorg on bugzilla.01:53
m-voone thing that s seriously wrong with the Application manager, IMO, is that error messages about dependency problems are utterly inscrutable.01:53
summatusmentislcuk: I put my wallet and n810(in a case) in it01:53
GeneralAntillesJust lots of small things.01:53
fugitivoacydlord: what do the girls think about that?01:53
lcukback later01:54
AStormm-vo: not all that bad01:54
AStormbut they could be better01:54
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jmc93739653GeneralAntilles, I've been hoping the PVR rumors are more than just a whisper campaign.01:54
acydlordfugitivo, no idea, my belt already looks like batmans toolbelt with all the gadgets i carry around01:55
AStormacydlord: ;P01:55
AStormthat's why I bought n810 - so that it wouldn't look like that01:55
jmc93739653But Imagination Technologies have talked the Linux talk before, with less than demonstrable results.  So, my optimism is guarded.01:55
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fugitivowell, i can't believe there's no source code example in C for home plugins using alpha transparencies01:56
acydlordi need to go more geek and buy a couple scott-E vests and gadget holsters01:56
GeneralAntillesfugitivo, look at fiferboy's new applet?01:56
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fugitivoGeneralAntilles: err no, could you give me more info please?01:57
fugitivoacydlord: I recommend Urbantool stuff01:58
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2094501:58
AStormfugitivo: it's just an alpha pixmap?01:58
acydlordi'll check that out fugitivo01:58
AStormit works like fake or normal transparency on default desktops01:58
acydlordi still need to get a spare battery cover for my n810 so i can hack it into a wearable01:58
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fugitivoGeneralAntilles: does it work like the Rss plugin? because I saw some python plugins that just redraws the background and it's really ugly and slow01:59
AStormacydlord: hm, might be hard to get01:59
fugitivoAStorm: that's not what i'm looking for01:59
GeneralAntillesI don't think it's Python.02:00
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fugitivoGeneralAntilles: thanks, i'll look at it02:04
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timelessgan: so how's ohloh?02:22
GeneralAntillesMuch better02:22
GeneralAntillesThe MicroB logo is better, too.02:23
timelessyou didn't like mine? :(02:23
GeneralAntillesNah, it's beautiful, you just chose the crappy version. ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Microblogo.png02:23
timelessheh02:23
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AStormbee? why? :p02:24
timelesshow many pages did you do?02:24
timelesshttp://www.ohloh.net/tags/maemo?page=6 seems somewhat unloved02:25
GeneralAntillesThe first 3 or so02:25
timelessfwiw, i've just pulled in all the garage svn's02:25
GeneralAntillesThe rest either really aren't worth my time or don't have logos. :P02:25
timelessthe next time i find a way to use rsync between swift and sanjay, i'll do so02:25
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timelessand then mxr.maemo.org will have more current content :)02:25
timeless(and no disk space)02:25
Kekerothey anyone know how to save an edited document in consoel02:26
timelessgarage svn is 16gb + 5gb just for browser02:26
summatusmentiscrap... I'm looking at these maemo logos... I'm screwed02:26
KekerotI just edited a document but I have no clue how to end the editing and save it02:26
timelesskekerot: vi?02:26
Kekerotit just types that into the document02:26
Kekerotlol02:26
fugitivoKekerot: editing with what?02:26
timelessis that the editor you're using?02:27
Kekerotxterminal02:27
timelessif so, hardware escape02:27
timelessxterminal isn't an editor02:27
fugitivoKekerot: that's not a document editor02:27
timelesshardware escape02:27
timeless:wq02:27
timelessor02:27
Kekerotim trying to install mac changer02:27
timelesshardware escape02:27
timeless:q!02:27
timelessdepending on whether you like your changes, or don't02:27
aquatix[the latter doesn't save your changes]02:27
AStormknowing how to quit vi is the first step towards enlightenment ;)02:28
Kekerotim going to brick my n810 lol02:28
AStormKekerot: why?02:28
* aquatix uses vim and knows how to quit emacs :P02:28
Kekerotbecause i dont know wtf im doing in linux02:28
fugitivoAStorm: using and to KNOW that you're using vi is the first step :)02:28
AStormif you see an editor w/o UI, 75% chance it's vi02:29
AStormor some vi clone02:29
AStorm15% chance it's a variant of ed02:29
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fugitivoit could be vi, joe, emacs, pico02:29
AStormjoe has ui02:29
AStormemacs has ui02:29
aquatixnano!02:29
AStormand pico definitely has ui02:29
AStorm:)02:29
aquatixah02:30
AStormnano has it too02:30
aquatixthat kind of ui02:30
* aquatix mostly ignores that02:30
fugitivowell02:30
AStormvim has exactly one line of ui ;P02:30
fugitivo"UI"02:30
fugitivothen vi also has ui02:30
AStormno02:30
AStormit doesn't print anything by default02:30
AStorm:)02:30
fugitivoyes it does02:30
AStormit may have a status line, like vim02:30
AStormbut it's optional, only in newer versions02:31
fugitivothen it has ui02:31
AStorm:)02:31
aquatixyou can type in it and read back your changes?02:31
aquatixthen it has ui02:31
fugitivoit prints ~ on all non-used lines02:31
AStormfugitivo: depends on the vi variant :)02:31
aquatixand it prints the filename on the last line02:31
AStormsome don't02:31
aquatixand the cursor position02:31
fugitivoline number02:31
AStormaquatix: only new ones02:31
aquatixtrue02:31
fugitivoastorm: what is a new one for you?02:32
AStormif you see one status line, it's definitely vi02:32
AStormfugitivo: like, 15 years old02:32
Kekerotanyone know how to get roadmapper working?02:32
fugitivoAStorm: lol02:32
AStormfugitivo: not lol, there are some Solaris systems around02:33
fugitivoAStorm: i'm an oldschool unix admin, but 15 years old is not new for me02:33
AStormhehe02:33
AStormold BSD vi is also funny, but has that status line02:33
aquatixelvis ftw02:33
aquatix;)02:33
AStormbusybox vi can be configured to not have the status line to save space too02:33
aquatixanybody here programmed on minix?02:34
* aquatix did02:34
aquatixit was... interesting02:34
aquatixkickstarted me into vim though02:34
aquatixwith its elvis vi clone02:34
AStorm;P02:34
Kekerothow do you setup roadmap? it always says no maps are visible within a set of coordinates even though I used the getmaps app to download some02:35
fugitivoanyone tried navit?02:35
* aquatix goes get some sleep02:35
aquatixnn all02:35
Kekerotdoes navit have turn by turn directions?02:35
fugitivoyes02:36
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Kekerotman my n810 is all crazy now im going to have to reformat it02:48
GeneralAntillesThat's what you get for trying to rip off Navicore. ;)02:49
Kekeroti knew it would happen lol02:49
Kekerotyou could just buy a gps for their sub price lol02:50
Kekerotif only roadmap worked02:50
GeneralAntillesMaemo Mapper?02:50
Kekerotno i need a vector based turn by turn one02:51
Kekerotmaemo seems pretty useless imo02:51
Kekerotmaemo mapper i mean02:51
GeneralAntillesErm02:53
GeneralAntillesHow do you figure?02:53
GeneralAntillesWhere else can you get navigation with satellite maps?02:53
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lcuk_satellite is not always so clear when driving02:54
Kekerotit doesnt have rerouting02:54
GeneralAntillesDoes too.02:54
GeneralAntilleslcuk_, then press one button to switch to street.02:55
Kekerotwithout internet connection?02:55
acydlordyou could buy several GPS unites for the price of navicore02:55
timelesshow much is navicore?02:55
GeneralAntillesMeh, I have a cellphone.02:55
fugitivoKekerot: try Navit02:56
fugitivoKekerot: www.tecdencia.net/navit/02:56
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Kekerothow do i get maps for it?02:59
GeneralAntillestimeless, around $130 or so if I'm remembering correctly.03:00
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hotwingz330hi, new here, and just got a 770.  whats the best OS to use?03:01
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GeneralAntillesIt depends03:02
AStormhotwingz330: the one which works for you :)03:04
hotwingz330it has os2006 out of box but the application manager is hanging03:04
fugitivoKekerot: you can use garmin maps or openstreet, read the instructions03:06
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hircushotwingz330: os2006 is officially supported; os2007 lets you run more applications but you're on your own03:21
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fugitivoos2006 is more stable03:24
fugitivoos2007 is a pain in the ass on the 77003:24
GAN800Not really.03:24
fugitivoyes it is03:24
GAN800I found OS2007HE to be quite nice. OS2008HE is even better.03:25
GAN800You HAVE to have swap enabled though.03:25
fugitivoi had03:25
GAN800and upping the swappiness helps a lot too.03:25
fugitivobut too much problems, with os2006 everything was solved03:25
GAN800Subjective.03:26
fugitivonow i have the n810, so no problems at all03:26
GAN800personally, I can't stand OS200603:26
fugitivoi couldn't neither, but i needed stability03:26
fugitivoand os2006 gave me that03:26
Kekerotdo you guys think the next tablet will be smaller or larger than the n810?03:27
GeneralAntillesKekerot, I certainly hope it isn't any smaller.03:28
AStormwhat about the same size?03:28
AStorm:)03:28
AStormsmaller screen = lose03:28
fugitivosmaller, ipod like03:28
AStormno, no, NO!!!03:28
fugitivoipod touch like03:28
GeneralAntillesPersonally, the N810 being smaller than the N800 is a big negative point for me.03:28
lcuk_smaller == mobile phone like. nahhhh03:28
AStormif I wanted an iPod touch, I'd buy it03:28
GeneralAntillesfugitivo is just pulling stuff out of his ass.03:28
Kekerotmaybe its the size of the n810 but with no bevel and a huge screen lol03:28
fugitivo:)03:28
lcuk_THINNER03:28
Kekerotthey should use an oled display03:29
AStormKekerot: now, that would be almost good03:29
AStormthinner would be fine03:29
GeneralAntilleslcuk_, and give up more storage? No thanks.03:29
AStormKekerot: if you build them a 225dpi OLED, then sure03:29
GeneralAntilles^03:29
Kekerothas nokia used oleds before?03:29
AStormGeneralAntilles: there's more than enough space inside03:29
lcuk_why? 2 or 4 micro sds would make me happy03:29
AStormI wonder why they dropped the FM receiver03:29
GeneralAntillesAStorm, get back to me when you design a mobile device. ;)03:29
AStormyup, µSD is nice03:29
AStormGeneralAntilles: there is a lot of space inside, really03:29
AStormputting one or two chips more shouldn't be hard03:30
Kekerotlol03:30
AStormesp. if they change miniSD to microSD03:30
Kekerotfm trasmitter would be good03:30
AStormKekerot: you mean receiver03:30
Kekerotand maybe a decent camera on the front and back03:30
AStormtransmitter is impossible03:30
Kekerotwhy03:30
AStormcamera... can't be too decent, it'd be too large03:30
lcuk_we have radio transmitter already :)03:30
AStormbut slightly better, like 1mpix03:30
lcuk_multiple infact03:30
AStorm1,2mpix class webcam03:31
lcuk_resolution isnt important, get the frikkin quality up03:31
AStormyup03:31
Kekerotand more fps03:31
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AStormKekerot: no, CPU won't manage03:31
AStormunless they put a damn lot of HW accell03:31
Kekerotwont the next cpu be more powerful03:31
AStorm*accel03:31
Kekerotomap303:31
AStormKekerot: dunno yet, OMAP3 is more powerful, but not like twice ;P03:32
jmc93739653OMAP34xx?03:32
GAN800The resolution is fine as-is. What we need is a sensor that can tell white from black and doesn't have a noise floor up to the ceiling.03:32
lcuk_it does, the problem i see is the camera is being translated from YUV to RGB32 and then downgraded when the LCD can handle direct YUV and it can be saved as a movie at that03:32
Kekerotdisable the display driver while recording for higher FPS lol03:32
AStormheh, current one is just reddish and grainy03:32
GAN800Almost certainly the OMAP343003:32
* lcuk_ is frustrated by the camera so far03:32
AStormbut not all that bad03:32
* AStorm is frustrated by lack of software support for it03:32
GAN800OMAP3 can handle 12mp03:32
KekerotI never use the camera on my n81003:32
AStormbtw, need a camera on back, really03:32
jmc93739653GAN800, Sweet.03:32
AStormcan't make pics otherwise03:32
Kekerotthe camera placement on the n810 kinda sucks03:33
jmc93739653A 45nm process OMAP 3430 would be awesome indeed.03:33
AStormmaybe a rotatable one on the left03:33
AStormnot ejected like in n80003:33
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lcuk_hubble space telescope has a resolution of 1024*1024 (if i remember rightly) - its not the resolution that makes great pictures, its the sensor quality03:33
AStormbut a flipflop03:33
AStormmaybe on the right (there's free space ;P )03:33
lcuk_you can have 240mpixel shots but if the sensor is too small you get noise03:33
AStormlcuk_: definitely03:33
Kekerotlol yeah MEGAPIXEL MEGAPIXEL MEGAPIXEL!03:33
jmc93739653I'm still drooling over the Beagle Board (http://beagleboard.org/) as an OMAP3 test-bed.03:34
lcuk_just have 2 - most phones do it nowadays03:34
AStormI'm talking optical resolution03:34
lcuk_low resolution webcam, higher better quality main scene camera03:34
AStormyes, that would be OK too03:34
lcuk_one on both sides, even my £25 crapper of a phone has them03:34
AStormso I could properly target the camera03:34
Kekerothttp://techielobang.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/sony_oled_slim_1-thumb-450x337.jpg03:34
Kekeroti wanna see an oled in a mid03:34
AStormKekerot: then build a cheap one03:34
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AStormwe're all waiting for your plant to open03:35
Kekerotlol ok03:35
jmc93739653With luck the BB will leave the JTAG port in release versions.03:35
AStormKekerot: trick is, resolution isn't as high as needed yet03:35
AStormyou can't get 225dpi with color oleds03:35
AStormjust yet03:35
jmc93739653Kekerot:  OLED would be very, very cool;but OLED's impending World Domination (tm) keeps missing release schedules.03:35
AStormjmc93739653: it will come, but later03:36
jmc93739653I remember reading in The Economist in '99 that OLED would be the New Hotness by 2005, and well, that didn't really happen ;)03:36
leachim6I want to reflash os2006 on my 77003:36
leachim6where can I get the 2006 FIASCO03:36
AStormand we'll get foldable displays, finally :D03:36
Kekerotthey should make oled clothing03:36
AStormjmc93739653: they started to appear at least03:36
jmc93739653I'm totally smitten with Nokia's Morph concept.03:36
Kekerotlike camosuits03:36
AStormKekerot: won't work03:37
AStormany stupid heat sensor will detect you03:37
AStormyou'll glow like a lamp03:37
AStorm:P03:37
leachim6remember reading in Economist in 1960 where they said we would all have hovercars and robots to do everything for us by 200003:37
Kekerotlol but versus poor insurgents its an advantage03:37
AStormleachim6: we're close03:37
jmc93739653I don't see Morph actually being profitable (or even mass producible) by 2010, though.  2015, maybe.03:37
AStormwe have one prototype hovercar03:37
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AStormand some prototype general purpose robots03:37
AStorm;P03:37
Kekerotwell we have hovercars but they are not legal yet03:37
AStormyup03:38
lcuk_my dad flies each weekend03:38
Kekerotthose moller skycars are crazy lol03:38
AStormjmc93739653: unless we get foldable displays and the concept goes obsolete ;P03:38
Kekerotyou can refuel at a gas station03:38
Kekerothttp://gizmodo.com/390919/spreadable-electronics-oleds-and-solar-cells-sprayed-from-a-can03:39
AStormblah blah, blah03:39
AStormtell me when they start mass production03:39
Kekerothow would they control each pixel with something like this03:39
Kekerotlol03:39
AStormKekerot: simple, use indium oxide electrodes03:40
lcuk_with a mask to create the required circuitry03:40
AStormthey're transparent03:40
AStormlcuk_: no03:40
lcuk_and multiple layers, come on03:40
AStormindium oxide... although it is expensive03:40
Kekerotso they spray it on a circuit board?03:41
AStormno, why?03:41
AStormit has its own electrodes03:41
AStormneatly sprayed03:41
lcuk_inkjet :)03:41
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jmc93739653Astorm:  I thought Morph's screen was foldable?03:43
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Kekerotwhat games do you guys play on your tablets?03:44
AStormjmc93739653: not just that03:44
AStormthe whole device03:44
AStormKekerot: who needs games? :P03:44
Kekerotbored travelers03:44
Kekerotwith no movies or music03:44
Kekerotlol03:44
lcuk_keterot im playing a wicked game of c coding.  its very addictive, ive gotta fight the big end of level boss and get tearfree updates ;)03:45
Kekerotive grown tired of crazy parking03:45
Kekerotlol03:45
lcuk_try numptyphysics03:45
Kekerotare there any good rpgs available to us03:45
jmc93739653lcuk_: I love thinking of coding like this.03:45
lcuk_jmc93739653, thinking about it? or doing it?03:46
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leachim6AStorm, yeah ...but they said it would be a mature technology by 200003:47
leachim6someone give me a good artist to plug into last.fm ... I'm bored03:47
jmc93739653lcuk_: either, coding as gaming03:47
AStormleachim6: futurology03:47
AStormthey're always off a generation or so03:47
lcuk_leachim6, you can buy yourself a powered vehicle today which will take you up into the sky right now :)03:48
AStormtime to finally consider colonizing Mars ;P03:48
leachim6the point it .... it's neither practical or ubiquitous03:48
AStormlcuk_: heh, if you can afford it *and* the special licence03:48
leachim6yet03:48
leachim6I say maybe another 20 years03:48
lcuk_you can climb the highest mountain and fly back down, you can get into space in a metal can, you could go to other planets, all our goods are made by robots03:48
leachim6That's true03:49
lcuk_they were right :)03:49
AStormhaha03:49
leachim6just not in the way they though :)03:49
AStormbut we have no domestic robots03:49
jmc93739653lcuk_: most of my programming consists of maintenance or utilitarian scripting.  One of the reasons I bought a Tablet was that it seemed more amenable to 'blue sky' development than server-side web development/integration.03:49
AStorminstead we'll have intelligent homes ;P03:49
leachim6do you ?03:49
leachim6'cause I don't :_)03:49
leachim6unless you count the thermostat on the air conditioner...03:50
AStormhowever, that's been prediced too03:50
AStormleachim6: we *will* have, not have already03:50
AStorm*predicted even03:50
leachim6That is true ... the technology DOES EXIST03:50
leachim6and that's what they predicted03:50
AStormit is in use too, but not widespread enough03:50
AStormtoo expensive still03:50
AStormand not cool enough03:50
lcuk_jmc93739653, :) blue sky is a nice idea - did you work in win or linux before (and obviously still)03:50
leachim6that's the ubiquitous part03:51
leachim6just saying03:51
leachim6linux ftw!03:51
leachim6'cept that bug in PolicyKit in ubuntu hardy ... that sucks03:51
AStormwell, if I had these 10-20k$, I could make my house an intelligent one03:51
AStormbut... what's the point?03:51
AStormfor uber intelligence, I'd need 100k$03:52
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lcuk_just hire a maid03:52
AStormlcuk_: that's the point03:52
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leachim6AStorm, that's not true man03:52
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AStormleachim6: what's not?03:52
leachim6if you have enough tech know-how ... you can hack together some pretty sweet home-automation for about 500 bucks03:53
AStormwhy do you need an intelligent toaster?03:53
leachim6so I can run linux on my toaster!03:53
AStormleachim6: not good enough03:53
lcuk_cos i keep burning the toast!03:53
leachim6or maybe FreeBSD...03:53
AStormI know what I'm saying about03:53
leachim6lcuk_, amen!03:53
AStormjust the cables will grab 500$03:53
leachim6I dunno man03:53
AStormmaybe more03:53
lcuk_wireless is getting big nowadays03:53
leachim6dude03:53
lcuk_one day i think we will have small computers03:53
AStormwireless is more expensive per device03:53
AStorm:)03:53
leachim6where the hell are you buying your cables03:53
lcuk_bluetooth03:54
jmc93739653lcuk_:  Mostly LAMP or Java.  I'd use Linux (Ubuntu or Fedora) on my dev box, and Linux was by far the most prevalent production environ, but most of the work was platform agnostic.  Usually boring "in-house" development to boot.03:54
lcuk_http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons03:54
leachim6do the entire house in cat6 .... you can by a freaking quarter mile of that stuff for like 100 bucks ;)03:54
AStormbluetooth will crowd the microwave band03:54
AStormand die03:54
AStormleachim6: yeah, sure03:54
AStormit goes $1/m03:54
AStormor more03:54
AStormyes, more03:55
AStorm$2/m03:55
AStorm:)03:55
lcuk_$499/m for the gold stuff03:55
AStormlcuk_: where? :P03:55
leachim6http://www.amazon.com/Cables-To-Go-43107-CAT6/dp/B000HDOD8A/ref=pd_bbs_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1213923287&sr=8-503:55
leachim6there's 500 feet for under a hundred bucks03:55
AStorm500'? too little03:55
jmc93739653AStorm: there's a chance that "white-space" services & gear might actually see the light of day in the US. (VHF & UHF TV bands.)03:55
AStormthat would be maybe 1/3 of the cabling03:55
lcuk_http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9967991-1.html03:55
AStormit's just 100m03:56
leachim6100m is less than 500 feet....03:56
AStormso, I know what I'm saying03:56
AStorm:)03:56
AStormleachim6: not much less03:56
AStormexactly 152.4m03:56
AStorm:P03:56
leachim6wow ... that was really pricy03:56
AStormthat's not a whole lot03:57
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681227012703:57
GeneralAntilles$11003:57
AStormand you get to cut it03:57
leachim6http://www.qualitycables.com/QB-CAT6-SOLID-BLUE.html03:57
leachim61000 feet for 12003:57
AStormGeneralAntilles: now, that's talking03:57
AStorm:)03:57
leachim6I might buy this...03:57
AStormok, so, 200$ for cables03:57
lcuk_bluetooth or broadband over electric thingy03:58
AStormlcuk_: it's narrowband03:58
AStormat most 10 Mbit ;)03:58
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AStormbluetooth is slow too :)03:58
AStormand will crowd at the number of devices you need03:58
lcuk_we were talking about home automation, not broadcast quality video streaming03:59
AStormyeah, but bluetooth would still crowd03:59
AStormpower line network is workable though04:00
lcuk_well it does already, iyou probably have quite a cluster of BT around you04:00
AStormno, just a few devices04:00
AStorm:)04:00
AStormit would be nice to have it controlled by BT though04:00
AStormnot without additional security of course04:01
lcuk_walking into a room with 8x0 in hand gives you control of the elements in that room04:01
lcuk_just pair them, you are in your own home04:01
AStormno, just pair and enter strong password04:01
AStorm:P04:01
GeneralAntillesDon't need BT for that.04:01
GeneralAntillesJust connect to the wifi network.04:01
AStormGeneralAntilles: wifi?04:01
AStormmore expensive04:01
AStormbut also possible04:01
lcuk_less resolution - you would still be connected to previous room04:02
GeneralAntillesi.e., wire up all the devices to the network, then have the N8x0 connect to the network with wifi. ;)04:02
AStormlcuk_: sure04:02
lcuk_ie it wouldnt know to show you the controls that are best around you04:02
GeneralAntillesYou could do that with BT proximity.04:02
GeneralAntillesJust stick a beacon in each room.04:02
lcuk_in the lounge i want lights curtains and tv, but there isnt much use for the bog flusher04:02
GeneralAntillesNo need for every freaking device to be BT.04:02
AStormGeneralAntilles: yup, exactly04:03
lcuk_if theres a beacon might as well make it intelligent, its just a few control signals and info updates04:03
AStormlcuk_: "just a few" multiply by some like 20-30 devices04:03
lcuk_right, and how cheap can you get tiny java running bluetooth devices?   think oldish mobiles...04:04
AStormtoo expensive04:04
lcuk_and wifi and computers isnt04:04
AStormand you still need a lot of customization04:04
AStormwifi isn't04:04
AStormyou set up one access point and that's all04:04
AStormconnect it to the power line network04:05
lcuk_eh? the transport layer is irrelivent - the data app still has to be written04:05
AStormyes04:05
AStormbut no need for Java04:05
AStormembedded is cheaper04:05
lcuk_a phone is just a nice low power device which happens to have the technology required - hell you could even use the cameras.  and if hacked properly could make an excellent embedded node :)  pennies per device, choose the right one write software targetting it (doesnt have to be java) and away you go04:08
AStormlcuk_: embed a phone in the toaster04:08
AStormyeah, that should do it, at 100$/unit cost ;P04:08
AStormpennies per device - you must be joking04:09
AStormnote, we're not talking mass production here04:09
AStormstill, I could grab enough µCs for like, 200-300$04:09
lcuk_how many billions of these little microcomputers with lots of technology been made sold given away flushed lost dropped04:09
AStormmany, but not enough04:09
AStormand it's hard to get them in bulk04:09
lcuk_are you fixated on the toaster? im thinking general purpose monitoring nodes - you are right if you want talkie toaster :) easier to embed04:10
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AStormlcuk_: trick is, there are really many devices04:14
AStormstarting from doors04:14
AStormthrough whole kitchen (oven(s), fridge, dishwasher)04:14
AStormetc.04:15
AStormreally a lot04:15
AStormautomatic blinds, lights etc.04:15
AStormanyway, I've to go to sleep :)04:15
lcuk_agreed, gnite04:15
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Churlhi04:43
Churlyay xchat works04:44
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Churltest04:45
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NaviChurl, I can't see what you're typing.04:46
Churlut oh any hints?04:47
GAN800Punch Navi in the mouth.04:48
Churlppunch!!!!!04:48
* Navi rolls on the floor, laughing.04:48
Churlgot you!!04:48
Churli win04:49
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admin_[SB2 maemo mistral20_armel] ronnie@ubuntuBoxx ~ $ af-sb-init.sh start05:58
admin_Note: For remote X connections DISPLAY should contain hostname!05:58
admin_Sample files present.05:59
admin_/etc/osso-af-init/dbus-systembus.sh: line 37: /usr/bin/scratchbox-launcher.sh: No such file or directory05:59
admin_Starting D-BUS session bus daemon05:59
admin_/sbin/start-stop-daemon: stat /usr/bin/dbus-daemon: No such file or directory (No such file or directory)05:59
admin_/etc/osso-af-init/sapwood-server.sh: line 33: /usr/bin/scratchbox-launcher.sh: No such file or directory05:59
admin_/etc/osso-af-init/matchbox.sh: line 65: /usr/bin/scratchbox-launcher.sh: No such file or directory05:59
admin_/etc/osso-af-init/clipboard.sh: line 30: /usr/bin/scratchbox-launcher.sh: No such file or directory05:59
admin_any ideas? (sorry for flooding :D)05:59
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admin_got it06:02
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Proteous...06:12
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leachim6where can I get the os2006 image for the 770 ?06:18
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atul_Does Gecko Engine of Mozilla Firefox is available on maemo platform ? Who is working on XULRunner developement part on maemo ?06:59
acydlordit's the engine of the default browser in os200807:01
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acydlordhttp://browser.garage.maemo.org/07:02
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amengHi, the autoconf version in scratchbox is too low, how can i change a new one?08:10
timelessi think i posted instructions somewhere08:10
timelessbut note that changing a new one won't do what you want08:11
timeless(it doesn't mean much of anything, which is  a good reason for it to not do anything remotely useful..)08:12
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atulGecko SDK How to install ? I extract tarball of same but it not come with make file so how to install it ?08:16
atulfor maemo platform08:16
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timelesswhat was the url for this thing you downloaded?08:19
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atulGecko SDK How to install ? I extract tarball of same but it not come with make file so how to install it ?08:39
* timeless kicks atul08:39
atulI Install XULRunner which says it come up with Gecko SDK but I didn't found Geck SDK in my home/usr/gecko-sdk ?08:39
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timelesswhat was the url for this sdk?08:39
atultimeless who ask you do u own work idiate ?08:39
* atul atul kicks timeless08:40
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timelessplease visit http://irchelp.org08:40
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Sakkath[n800]vids aren't working especially youtube says need flash oor js08:51
Sakkath[n800]can i  reinstall the browers08:52
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timelessno, but you could enable flash08:54
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timelessclick the magnifying glass, select components/plugins and check flash08:55
timelessthis is documented in tabletschool (?)08:55
Sakkath[n800]tyvm sorry for shortcut typing in pda now08:55
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timelesshi dougt09:34
timelesshappy midsummer or something09:34
dougthey timeless; how are things?09:34
timelessi'm compressing my file system09:34
AStormtimeless: how?09:34
AStormtell me, it would improve its speed drastically09:35
timelessastorm: zfs clone magic09:35
AStormblah09:35
AStormI thought, you're doing that on your N8x009:35
timelessthe recommended way for n8x0 is: rsync+flash+rsync09:35
AStormstill, I need a kernel with working DVFS, duh09:35
AStormtimeless: for compression? no09:35
timelesswhich is kinda like what i'm doing here09:35
AStormI meant, runtime compression09:36
timelessrsync+clone+rsync09:36
timelessastorm: jffs2 can fragment to ****09:36
AStormfragmenting isn't a problem with flash09:36
timelessand i've been told the only fix is to reflash09:36
AStormit even improves performance09:36
AStorm:)09:36
AStorm:)09:36
timelessastorm: no, there's a way for it to accumulate some very strange structure which is essentially unsolvable09:36
timelessif you want to watch my n800s boot, i can show you09:37
AStormyes, there is09:37
timelessthey take over a minute sitting at the boot screen09:37
AStormhmmm09:37
AStormintriguing09:37
timelessastorm: i spoke w/ the guys who work on this stuff09:37
AStormsounds like a bug09:37
timelesstheir solution is "die jffs2 die"09:37
AStormI actually need a compressed fs for MMC09:37
timelessntfs :)09:37
AStormso JFFS2 is entirely out of scope09:37
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timelessbut anyway...09:37
AStormyeah right09:37
AStorm*working* FS ;P09:38
AStormand a kernel with DVFS which doesn't crash before booting09:38
AStormw/o DVFS, n810 dies after a day09:38
amengtimeless: Can you give me your link about how to change autoconf of scratchbox? I cannot find it09:38
timelesshttp://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-developers@maemo.org/msg15202.html09:39
amengtimeless: Thx09:39
timelesshrm, yeah you want message 3 in that thread, not 2 :)09:39
timelessameng: please don't take this the wrong way, but how did you search?09:40
AStormhe's wrong about python09:40
AStormthe versions are backwards compatible09:40
AStormunless you don't have packages reinstalled09:40
timelessnot python 3 :)09:40
AStormyes, not python 309:40
timelessnot sure who he is :)09:40
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AStormand that won't be linked /usr/bin/python in any short time, hopefully09:41
timelessameng: because a search http://www.mail-archive.com/search?q=autoconf+maemo-developers&l=maemo-developers%40maemo.org yields the right fix09:41
amengtimeless:ok09:42
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chmacIs there any way to kill the "presence" system tray icon?09:48
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trickiehttp://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/ is also a good interface  for searching maemo-related stuffs09:56
chmactrickie: Cool, thanks, I'll check it out09:58
timelesstrickie: oh, i'm not really advertising the service i picked, it's just the one google gave me when i searched09:58
timelessas far as i'm concerned, if you aren't using google, you're doing everything wrong09:58
trickietimeless: sure, i understand, maybe we should add a link to a mail archive in the subject09:59
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timelessthe topic? last i checked it was *really* long09:59
trickieso then you can just say 'google, or see subject' when someone asks for info in a thread09:59
trickieyeah i know... just trying to find a way to not have to say the same ten times :)09:59
timelessi'd be fine w/ dropping linuxtag and sticking something else in its place10:00
chmacAnyone know what that icon is called, the one that shows my "presence" status?10:00
chmacI dare say it disappears if I delete all my accounts10:01
trickiechmac: yep10:01
trickiethats what i do :)10:01
trickieit annoys me also...10:01
timelessi think it's called presence :)10:01
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KhertanHi !10:04
Khertanis there someone here that have already use efl with python on maemo ?10:04
gomiamtimeless: it seems it should be called "annoying presence", at least for trickie ;-)10:05
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Khertandoes canola source code is closed ?10:07
timelessdoesn't the package tell you that when you install it?10:07
trickiewell you can always file a enhancement request @ bugzilla,  i just don't use IM on my nokia enough to warrant any whinging :)10:07
timelessi just use google web apps instead10:08
timelessanyone know if y! is available for n8x0?10:08
trickieKhertan: the efl libs are open, canola specific code on top of that is closed10:09
trickiesome related apps/daemons are open though10:09
Khertanthx10:10
Khertanin fact i m trying to use efl10:10
Khertanin one of my apps10:11
Khertanbut it seems that i can t dev on device10:11
Khertanas building a .edj file need edje_cc wich need gcc10:12
trickieKhertan: you using the python bindings? should be able to with those10:12
trickieah ok10:12
trickiei see10:12
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Khertanand in the same time i trying to learn a bit more about  efl so i m looking at the most example i can see10:12
X-FadeKhertan: I see the package python-efl-utils_0.1.3-maemo3 ?10:12
X-FadeAnd python-efl-core_0.9.1.042-maemo310:13
trickieKhertan: can always use mamona :)10:13
trickiemamona is heavily based on the efl libs10:13
Khertanx-fade > yes there is python binding10:13
trickieand can get a recent-ish gcc on device10:13
Khertanbut i cant build with this the edj file10:14
X-Fadehmmm ok.10:16
Khertanconnection could drop10:16
Khertansorry10:16
Khertani m in the train10:16
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gomiamKhertan: oh, connected through GPRS?10:17
gomiamhow much does it cost you?10:17
Khertannothing as i use dns tunneling10:18
Khertanand so this isn't count10:18
gomiamoh10:18
Khertan:)10:18
X-FadeLol ;)10:18
Khertanelse it s 1Euros for 1Mo10:18
gomiamnow, I didn't know someone had already ported DNS tunnelling to the N8x0 family :-P10:19
Khertanor 69 euros for illimited data10:19
X-FadeWow, that is expensive.10:19
gomiamKhertan: are you from a Spanish-speaking country, by any chance?10:19
gomiam(just curious)10:19
Khertanno france :)10:19
Khertanprice is shame too10:20
gomiamoh, that was another option (using illimited instead of unlimited pointed to it;-))10:20
Khertanstrange edje_cc claim that it can t found gcc10:20
Khertanbut .edj file is built and work10:21
Khertani ve now a iphone like scrolling widget working10:21
trickieha, well... cool!10:22
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Khertani m looking efl to make a usefull google synced contact application10:23
Khertanand made a better gui for mcalendar10:23
Khertankinetic scrolling this is the name of a such scroll10:24
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trickieKhertan: well for efl related questions #edevelop is good, lots of 'in-the-know' helpful people there10:28
trickieKhertan: or the indt guys also, i guess some lurk here too10:29
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Traveler9amazing .....never knew this channel existed10:29
Traveler9freenode is amazing10:29
Traveler9even though i hate defocus10:29
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Khertani ve also see a blog from a french guy that have made efl example10:33
Khertanand it say in his blog that he ve bought an n80010:33
Khertanmaybe i should ask him if he is interested by the project10:33
Khertandefocus ?10:36
Traveler9just a channel i used to troll but have become ineffective at now10:37
Traveler9i like to sit and contemplate my existence, drink beer, dream about killing my ex, skip my meds, call in sick to work, build stacks of matchsticks and fantasize about jailbait10:38
acydlordi do most of that without needing to be in an irc channel10:39
Traveler9sometimes i count backwards from 6 to 0 repeatedly until i miss a number and than i force myself to do painful torturous things like duct taping my mouth shut and trying to lick my nose10:39
Traveler9this is related to n800, i'm getting to it...10:39
Traveler9lager is noteworthy because of yeast....yes...and yeast infections can be painful, just like erections that last more than 4 hours at a time...10:39
Traveler9actually it isn't necessarily related to n800 other than randomly finding the channel on /list and looking at my nokia to my right and wishing i could reset to factory settings without having to flash it10:41
Khertando you a gui that help to build .edc file like glade for gtk ?10:41
gomiamTraveler9: somehow I think you need to get back to the trolling academy for a refund. They have taught you nothing uselful.10:41
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Traveler9so if you can help me find a cheerleader with knee high white socks, a vagina made out of cotton candy and a smile that can cure bipolar disorder that would be just fine, thanks10:42
acydlordi've had eliza bots that are more effective at trolling10:42
Traveler9my life is so fscked10:43
Traveler9i wake up to kernel panic10:43
gomiamacydlord: I have had 5 year olds that are more effective at trolling XD10:43
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Khertanwhere is the ignore option in maemo xchat ?10:44
Traveler9800/5=16010:44
acydlorddoesnt /ignore work?10:44
Traveler9*9=144010:44
Khertanfound :)10:44
Khertanyes !10:44
Khertanarg this doesn t work !10:45
acydlordlol10:45
Traveler9i hate you all and hope you burn in hell10:45
acydlordignore worked fine for me10:46
acydlordunless he had an anurism10:46
acydlorda horribly misspelled one10:47
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Khertando you a gui that help to build .edc file like glade for gtk ?10:48
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Khertan+a know10:49
acydlordi dont know of any10:50
acydlordi havent played around with edc yet =x10:50
Khertanit seem s to be a great thing to make nice gui10:51
Khertanas u can see i m playing with it since 30min10:52
Khertan:)10:52
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trickieKhertan: i have never used one, but i think there are10:55
Khertanit seems there is a edje_editor10:55
trickieye10:55
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Khertanbut not yet port to maemo :(10:55
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Khertani ve ported glade so why not edje_editor :)10:58
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trickiefor sure :)10:58
trickiewould be handy10:58
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Khertanbye11:03
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Spaceman-N810Anyone familiar with Canola?11:12
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trickieSpaceman-N810: #canola11:13
Spaceman-N810Tried there, its dead11:14
trickieSpaceman-N810: well most of those guys are in brazil11:15
trickieso probably asleep11:15
Spaceman-N810Ah11:15
Spaceman-N810Thanks11:15
trickienp11:15
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Spaceman-N810Ok, im back, i already asked this in pidgin and they sent me back here...  How do i make pidgin emit a sound for received messages all the time, not just when the window is focused?11:25
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DekaUncheck "sounds when conversation has focus"11:28
Spaceman3750But then does that completely disable sounds Deka or enable them outside of window focus?11:31
DekaThe latter, I think11:31
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Spaceman3750thx11:32
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lardmanlcuk_: sound like you were right11:35
lardmanlcuk_: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102811:35
lardmanlcuk_: I know, I should send emails during the day :)11:36
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X-Fadelardman: That is no news from what you were told in Berlin ;)11:39
lardmanX-Fade: I heard it a different way11:39
lardmanX-Fade: wishful thinking on my part I expect11:39
X-Fadelardman: And is this really a x-server bug anyway? :)11:40
lardmanNo, I don't think so, but iirc the x-server needs a patch to work with the powervr...11:40
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X-Fadelardman: And I thought that a definitive answer was going to be given at the summit?11:42
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lardmanX-Fade: That was also my thought; but now I'm not sure if that's to be an answer about future platforms11:43
* lardman is confused11:43
lardmanhappens in the morning ;)11:43
X-Fadelardman: I think that Daniel doesn't know that plan ;)11:44
lardmanX-Fade: ok, that's fine. I was going to reply, but I'll leave it be for the time being (but know that I'm still keen, and no so keen on having to rev eng the thing)11:44
trickieX-Fade: yeah but he would know if they are planning a driver etc for the existing devices, i would guess anyway11:45
lardmantrickie: There is a working driver already11:45
X-Fadetrickie: And do you think we has allowed to tell you about that? :)11:45
X-Fade*he11:45
trickieX-Fade: no, but going out of his way to say there are no plans is not the same as saying there is plans11:46
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trickieif that sentence even makes sense :)11:46
lardmantrickie: I think he may have gone off half cocked11:46
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trickieanyway, im not whinging... just interested to see what happens11:46
lardmanand is now trying to patch the problem11:46
trickie:)11:46
X-Fadelardman: Btw, did you read the post by one indt guy about 3d having the same tearing problems?11:46
lardmanX-Fade: I remember seeing it, yes11:47
lardmanX-Fade: but that's expected I suppose, depending on how much data we're trying to push to the lcd controller11:47
X-FadeI'm still thinking there is also a technical difficuty besides the driver etc.11:47
trickielardman: the driver was the one that kate said she had looked at? but it was messy or something and they didn't have the IP on it or something11:47
trickieor am i mistaken11:48
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lardmanyeah that's the one11:48
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lardmanmessy and crashes iirc11:48
X-Fadelardman: Well, that is obviously not something you want to put on your consumer devices then.11:49
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lardmanX-Fade: Absolutely, and that's why I was talking about developers having access to alpha/beta software... :)11:50
trickieyeah that would be cool, some sort of develop program, where you sign away your right to whinge about broken devices :)11:50
X-Fadelardman: Oh, yeah that would be sweet ;)11:50
trickieid be in11:50
lardman:)11:50
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lardmanI don't suppose anyone knows a web page/site which gives the mathematical derivation going from a simple DCT equation to an integer implementation?11:56
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gomiamlardman, let me check11:57
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X-Fadelardman: What, what, what? :)11:57
lardmangomiam, X-Fade: Am trying to get my head around the SBC implementation, and comparing it to what is says in the spec, so I can write some DSP optimisations11:57
gomiamdo you want it in C or something else?11:57
lardmangomiam: doesn't matter really, C ideally though11:57
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Stskeepsanyone else having problems svn committing to garage projects? i can extract just fine, just not committ11:58
timelesswhat error do you get?11:59
Stskeepsnone, it just stalls on commit11:59
Stskeepsre checked out the project, tried again, same problem11:59
Stskeepshad a PROPFIND 302 Found problem at some point too11:59
gomiamlardman: could http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Programming/Debuggers/Framewave-36409.shtml be a pointer to it?12:00
X-Fadelardman: If I read things like this, I really find out that I'm bad at math ;) http://www.cs.cf.ac.uk/Dave/Multimedia/node231.html12:00
lardmanX-Fade: That describes what a DCT is, thanks, but I'm after what twekery people do to get it running quickly in integer form12:01
Stskeepstimeless: http://rafb.net/p/pBHBV832.html <- from a totally different machine, just checked out project12:02
lardmangomiam: I have a feeling that will be nicely optimised code, but still no idea how it gets to that point12:02
X-Fadelardman: yeah, I know.12:02
lardmanI guess I'll have to sit down with a pencil and see what it's doing12:02
gomiammmm... oh, you want to know how and why they do each optimization12:02
gomiamnow that's a lot of documentation ;-)12:02
lardmangomiam: yeah, are there courses about that stuff?12:04
gomiamno idea, sorry.12:04
lardmanAh, better is to look at the svn history and hope the first commit wasn't made by an optimisation guru; fingers crossed12:04
Stskeepstimeless: and /test2.txt is obviously 40412:04
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lardmanmy mind has gone blank, can anyone remember what the sbc encoder used to be called before it was merged into Bluez-utils?12:06
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lardmanah, libsbc12:07
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lardmanah good, that has worked12:12
lardmanfar less bitshifting trickery in there12:13
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L0c|e51Re12:41
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floriangood morning12:43
Spaceman-N810Morning florian12:44
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L0c|e51Isn't good do an 'apt-get update' followed by an 'apt-get upgrade' ?12:47
L0c|e51I've just done it and my n800 reboot continuosly :-(12:49
gomiamL0c|e51: mmm... you will need to reflash it then12:49
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gomiamyou probably upgraded too many things12:50
gomiamI got burned once like that12:50
gomiamand now I'm paranoid12:50
Khertandoes the housekeeper have shutdown electricity power on repository.maemo.org ?12:50
KhertanHi !12:50
gomiamI check most of the upgrades' sources before installing them.12:50
gomiam(sources: read repositories, via apt-cache policy packagename)12:51
X-FadeKhertan: Works for me?12:51
X-FadeI don't think the server is closed for 'Juhannus' ;)12:52
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L0c|e51Sigh12:56
L0c|e51So i must reflash...12:57
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L0c|e51No way to reset my n800 without pc ?12:58
gomiamL0c|e51: not that I know of.12:59
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L0c|e51I'm on vacation :-(13:00
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timelesshttp://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=A_Floppy_named_lsadkfjalhkjh.txt13:09
timeless^ why modality is useful, sadly people here are only now starting to learn that lesson13:09
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lardmanre13:23
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timelessandre?13:33
andre___yes?13:33
andre___you're really on track with reading mail it seems :)13:33
timelessi'm actually current!13:34
timelessi haven't been current in um...13:34
timelessi can't remember being current13:34
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andre___heh13:34
timelesswhich means i have time to yell and scream at a bunch of api/ui spec authors13:35
timelesspublic and private13:35
timelessso, why did i want to ping you13:35
timelessoh yes, you're bug jar, right?13:35
timelesscould you please create a blog for bug jar13:35
timelessso that those of us who've unsubscribed from maemo-devel can still read your bug jar13:35
andre___haven't sent any public ones yet, still discussing the format and requirements13:36
timeless?13:36
timelessapi/ui spec is unrelated to this13:36
timelessi just want to be able to subscribe to an rss feed for bug jar13:36
timelessjust the same content that you currently send to maemo-devel13:36
andre___again: i haven't send content to maemo-devel :-)13:36
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andre___stephen gadsby sends a weekly bug jar13:36
andre___which is quite cool btw13:37
timelessok, pass the request to him :)13:37
timelesssorry, clearly my memory isn't perfect :)13:37
andre___hehe... give me another two weeks to improve the format and to talk to stephen (i don't want to offend contributors by stealing them work)13:38
* timeless shrugs13:38
timelessthat's two weeks i'm not reading bug jars13:38
X-Fadetimeless: It is posted on itt too ;)13:38
andre___they are on itt too13:38
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andre___yupp :)13:38
timelessgrrr13:38
sp3000heh13:39
timelessandre: x-fade knows how much i hate itt, and is just rubbing it at me13:39
timelessi don't know if you do13:39
timelesswoohoo, garage xref finished (no idea when, i suppose i could read the logs)13:40
X-Fadetimeless: Google -> site:lists.maemo.org bug jar13:40
andre___haha. i try to read it regularly though there's still plenty of chance to improve my behaviour :)13:40
inzam i not the only one disliking itt?13:40
timelessx-fade: yeah yeah13:40
timelessinz: definitely not, but have you unsubscribed from maemo-devel?13:40
* timeless smiles13:40
timelessmy workstation has 51g of free space (and growing)13:40
timelessit was just about out of space a week ago13:40
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aquatixtimeless: you've been pruning your pr0n^H^H^H^Hanime collection?13:41
AStormhis pr0n == anime13:41
aquatixah13:41
aquatixhentai :)13:41
timelessaquatix: no, i have weekly source xrefs13:41
timelesslike mxr.maemo.org/chinook/13:41
timelessbut for the entire product13:41
timelessat this point, they're about 1.2g per week13:42
timelessand i'm not losing data13:42
aquatixah, ouch13:42
timelessi'm just asking my os to cooperate w/ its file system to recognize when data is the same13:42
timelessand only retain one copy of the bits13:42
aquatixcool13:42
aquatixautomatic hardlinking13:42
timelessso 1.2gb becomes a delta of <400m13:42
* aquatix needs to find out how to do that too13:43
timelesssomething like that, yeah13:43
timelesszfs :)13:43
aquatixah!13:43
inztimeless, no, I have not13:43
aquatixmyeah13:43
inztimeless, if I did that, I'd get around 2 hams/week13:43
timeless~timeless/bin/rsync -a --inplace --del -c diablo-38/ nokia-maemo && time zfs snapshot root_pool/home/svn/lxr-root/lxr-data/nokia-maemo@diablo-38 && time zfs rename root_pool/home/svn/lxr-root/lxr-data/diablo-38 root_pool/home/svn/lxr-root/lxr-data/diablo-38-old && time zfs clone root_pool/home/svn/lxr-root/lxr-data/nokia-maemo@diablo-38 root_pool/home/svn/lxr-root/lxr-data/diablo-38 && time zfs destroy root_pool/home/svn/lxr-root/lxr-data/diablo-38-old13:43
timelessis basically what i do13:43
timelessalthough the number 38 is contrived13:43
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* timeless is still archiving chinook13:43
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* timeless should try to fix the paths someday, since that stuff isn't svn managed13:46
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hellwolfI installed canola2 on OS2008, and I can't find any clue of using daap share to listen to the music on my laptop13:54
hellwolfI saw some pictures, they have "shared music" column, which I don't have on my N80013:55
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Khertan_Hi ... again :)13:57
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dennis_mipshello14:02
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Khertan_hi dennis_mips14:04
lardmanssvb: ping14:04
ssvbhi lardman14:04
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lardmandid you see my second email about the patch?14:04
lardmaniirc the kernel on the n8x0 lies about the framebuffer size14:05
dennis_mipsI need some advice: I want to use alsa for a sound application, but none of the examples from http://equalarea.com/paul/alsa-audio.html do wrok. When using default for the device name, I get: device or resource busy and for plughw:0,0 : cannot open audio device plughw:0,0 (No such file or directory)14:05
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Khertan_is there a video capture app to capture screen on nit ?14:05
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ssvblardman: that was just nitpicking :) your patch obviously makes some part of code redundant and this looks a bit suspicious14:06
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lardmanssvb: I'll have another look at the code and see what was happening; I guess I should really fix the code that specifies the framebuffer size so it's correct for that fn14:06
dennis_mipsdoes alsa work with cinook ?14:07
lardmanthe give-away would be if we see that message in dmesg on a standard machine14:07
lardmandennis_mips: yes14:07
lardmandennis_mips: what are you trying to do?14:08
lardmanssvb: Do you have any pointer for how to comvert DCT into optimised code?14:09
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ssvblardman: there is c55x image library, it is in '-l$(CCS_DIR)/ccs221_content/c5500/imglib/55ximagex.lib'14:10
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dennis_mipslardman: I am just trying to capture sound from the mic  and then try to output it on the speakers14:11
lardmanssvb: yeah, this is for audio, I know there is dsplib but I'm trying to work out what the sbc code is doing first14:11
Khertan_bye14:11
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lardmandennis_mips: what about gstreamer?14:12
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dennis_mipsfirst I have written some code myself, but it doesn't work, because snd_pcm_open fails with the above error and then I just used the examples from the alsa tutorials, but I get the same error14:13
lardmanhttps://garage.maemo.org/projects/maemo-recorder/14:13
dennis_mipslardman: to heavy and there is just one element to get to the raw audio data for encryption etc.14:14
lardmanI meant use the code14:15
* timeless grumbles14:15
timelessthis is a really lame readme: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/vmcontents/README?root=maemovmware&view=annotate14:15
dennis_mipslardman : I meant too heavy14:15
aquatixtimeless: :/14:15
dennis_mipsI take a look at it ... thnx14:15
dennis_mipsdoes it work on a n810, because there is just a port for n80014:15
timelessaquatix: i'm doing spot checks of the next mxr.maemo.org/garage push14:16
lardmandennis_mips: Should work fine as it uses gstreamer14:16
aquatixtimeless: i guess you aren't getting happier from it ;)14:16
timelessmxr is functioning properly14:16
timelessit's just garbage in, garbage out14:17
aquatix*g*14:17
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dennis_mipslardman: i need a function in my program which capotures the data from the mic  and then process this adata ... this needs to be done in realtime for a communication  that's why I can't use another progarmm and gstreamer is a bit heavy14:19
dennis_mipsdoess a program exists which is based on alsa so I can take a look at their sourcecode ?14:20
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lardmanI've no idea, there's a plugin for Python, but they all use a DSP task to read the data from the mic afaik, so you'll probably have to hack together an interface to the task if you don't use gstreamer14:20
dennis_mipslardman: what exactly is a dsp taks ?14:21
lardmana task which runs on the DSP14:21
dennis_mipsdo you mean this: http://dspgateway.sourceforge.net/ for example ?14:22
lardmanyes, it uses the dspgateway14:23
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lardmandennis_mips: what do you want to do with your audio data then?14:23
dennis_mipslardman: I need to encrypt it for a secure communication with another maemo device14:24
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dennis_mipsit is for a university project and they told us to use alsa or gstreamer and my group decided to go with alsa and now we're kind in a mess14:26
lardman:)14:26
lardmancan you simply open /dev/dsp?14:26
ssvb_lardman: I double that any clever decoder optimizations can help if slow memory accesses eat all the resources14:27
lardmanssvb_: I think it's the decoder which is slowing things down actually, not the memory accesses14:27
ssvb_lardman: have you tried putting as much of the critical data into internal memory (buffers on stack and allocated with malloc)14:28
lardmanssvb_: no, not yet14:28
ssvb_lardman: why are you getting such idea?14:28
dennis_mipslardman: /dev/dsp doesn't exist on our n810, just /dev/dsptaskX X={0,...,20}14:28
ssvb_lardman: my benchmarks showed that memory performance is really horrible, slowing down code up to 10x factor14:28
lardmanssvb_: I may allocate the coefficient tables there, and I probably need to rewrite the actual working code, which currently seems to use lots of bit shifts, to use intrinsics instead14:28
Khertansomeone have shutdown maemo repository ?14:28
lardmanssvb_: Ok, I'll move the data if possible14:29
ssvb_lardman: so the number crunching part is irrelevant14:29
lardmandennis_mips: ok, so you can't read raw data like that then14:29
lardmanssvb_: performing the copies, but not doing the crunching speeds up the code by ~2x14:29
lardmanssvb_: though I see what you're saying, I'll try moving the working data to internal memory14:30
dennis_mipslardman: what device does gstreame use ?14:30
ssvb_lardman: also memcpy is slow14:30
lardmanssvb_: That was my nect question, is there a point where it's not worth doing the move?14:30
ssvb_lardman: it copies data using 16-bit memory accesses14:30
lardmandennis_mips: You can't access it directly, one of the pcm ones14:30
lardmanssvb_: ah ok, so do a cast pointer copy instead then is faster14:31
ssvb_lardman: copying 32-bit data will improve performance twice, but data needs to be 32-bit aligned14:31
lardmanssvb_: that can be done with a #pragma iirc14:31
Khertanhuhu the macosx ardagent have just been published14:32
Khertanlol14:32
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Khertan1 years later !14:32
ssvb_lardman: memcpy has a generic code which does 16-bit copies and it is perfectly fine for DARAM/SARAM14:32
ssvb_lardman: but it is nonoptimal for external SDRAM memory14:32
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lardmanssvb_: Ok, thanks14:33
dennis_mipsso does a maemo package for gstreamer-plugins-bad exists ?14:33
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lardmandennis_mips: You already have the required plugins on the device, look and see what the maemo-recorder code does14:36
lardmandennis_mips: or did you want to interface with the dsp task directly?14:36
ssvb_lardman: copying with 'void memcpy32(uint32_t *dst, uint32_t *src, int count) { while (--count >= 0) {*dst++ = *src++; } }' is the fastest what I could get14:36
lardmandennis_mips: in which case you will have troubles as there's a missing header14:36
* lcuk_ grumbles and curses about having second hybrid engine in car but not able to use it14:36
* lcuk_ hunts for his screwdriver14:36
lardmanssvb_: looks good, that's what I meant by pointer copying14:37
ssvb_lardman: and it makes sense moving data to internal memory using this memcpy32 function, process it there and write results back to sdram14:37
lcuk_lardman, i did see the clarification, at least we know totally now14:38
lardmanssvb_: I probably need to read in 256 8bit bytes, and write out ~73 8bit bytes14:38
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lcuk_ssvb_, have you looked at optimising to use double precision memory copies or even the SIMD ASM instructions?14:39
ssvb_lardman: yes, I just posted this code to be sure that we understand each other14:39
lcuk_(i considered it for my blit but never got round to it)14:39
lardmanlcuk_: I'm not sure there are SIMD memory copy instructions14:39
ssvb_lcuk_: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/fastmem-arm9/?root=mplayer14:40
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ssvb_lcuk_: that's the best what I could get14:40
ssvb_lcuk_: I don't think that double precision floating point memory copy instructions would change performance much, but I can try it14:41
dennis_mipslardman: I "only" need to find a way to get raw audio data from the microphone and send them to the soundcard for output later on ...14:41
lardmanssvb_: spru376a.pdf ch 3.4.4 Using Long Data Accesses for 16-Bit Data14:43
ssvb_lardman: yes14:43
rm_youI would love if the n800 could record to mp3 :P dunno if that is possible though14:43
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t_s_othe more i play with maemo mapper, the more i find that a quick way to manually download tiles for whatever area is on screen at the moment would be perfect. having to dig into the meny, a sub menu and then a dialog vindow is just silly when all you want to do is hit ok on that dialog window...14:44
lardmandennis_mips: only :D, http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.0/free/g/gst-plugins-dsp0.10/ enjoy14:44
lardmandennis_mips: They will not build as they lack a header; look at how ssvb has managed to get the mp3sink to work with mplayer (see the Garage project) to get an idea of what you might need, perhaps14:46
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hrwmorning14:52
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sp3000indeed it does15:24
X-Fadehttp://tableteer.nokia.com/tableteer/os2008/exp_survey.xhtml15:24
timelessum15:24
timelessthe survey can't even spell 770 correctly15:24
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timelessdid anyone yell at someone about that?15:24
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rm_yousp3000: hrm, this isn't actually the exact thing i was looking for, i remember doing it by hand before... but this looks very interesting and I will probably end up using it :)15:28
corq-FLargh I'm in a white screen boot/reboot  loop on the n810 - ideas or links to fix appreciated15:30
corq-FLI have removed battery etc15:31
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AStormcorq-FL: which version of OS2008?15:33
AStormif it's older than 2007.50, upgrade15:33
ssvblardman: looks it is some special day, got freezes twice on my laptop :(15:34
* timeless ponders15:34
timelesshas anyone here posted the quick start guide?15:34
timelessi want to browse through it :)15:34
corq-FLlatest I believe but I'm trying to see if I can get into re-flash mode now15:34
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AStormyou should be able to15:34
AStormhold the home key while powering the tablet up15:35
corq-FLI see the usb symbol and the boot screen getting no further, I don't have the pc flash software loaded here tho15:35
AStormgood15:35
AStormso you can flash no15:36
AStorm*now15:36
AStormdownload either windows flasher (poor) or linux one15:36
lcuk_ssvb, unaligned access on 810 doesnt seem to hamr it that much, i drop roughly 1/2 frame total if everything starts unaligned15:36
corq-FLok I've done that before I've just never had white screen, thought I'd hosed the thing15:36
lcuk_and the blit routine i have still shows me wanting to fix unaligned http://pastebin.ca/105187715:37
corq-FLI feel better now, I don't mind a flash "cleaning" now and then ;)15:37
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corq-FLAStorm, thx :)15:37
ssvblcuk_: what kind of unaligned access?15:37
lcuk_32bit memory copies on unaligned boundaries15:38
AStormyeah, that case is fast in arm15:38
AStormdue to thumb CPU optimizations15:38
AStormit's quite good at unaligned accesses15:38
lcuk_yer, at first i was worried and wrote my blit exclusively for aligned but during testing realised it wasnt that big a deal (used to 68k which would crawl15:39
ssvbAStorm: how fast is it on 810 in MB/s?15:39
AStormssvb: speed of what?15:39
AStormunaligned accesses? would have to check15:39
ssvbAStorm: speed of memory copy15:39
AStormyou should only lose like, 10-15%15:39
lcuk_AStorm, that ties in with what ive seen15:40
ssvbAStorm: the fastest performance for copying memory that you can get is ~140MB/s15:40
ssvbAStorm: if you are only 10-15% slower than 50MB/s for example, your code is suboptimal :)15:41
lcuk_what if you fillup regs or use  simd?15:41
lcuk_or is that the actual hardware memory controller top speed15:42
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AStormssvb: no, not that low :)15:42
AStormlcuk_: hmm, never tried simd15:43
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lcuk_well it is designed for this :)15:43
AStormssvb: although, I only got like 110 MB/s (rough estimate from number of iterations)15:43
lcuk_i just dont have knowledge yet of  asm15:43
ssvblcuk_: the code fragment you have posted is really horrible from the performance point of view15:44
lcuk_ssvb, xv colorplane copying, its async isnt it - i noticed when i did first test with image blitting.  the greys go over first then the colorplanes.  i really need to see what i can get out of using direct omapfb15:45
lcuk_it got me over 25fps at full resolution so i stopped optimizing :)15:45
ssvblcuk_: yes, xv is async15:45
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lcuk_the 2 areas that could be optimized easily using asm was tricky to get c to cast and increment by the correct amount so i reverted to numeric increments..15:49
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ssvblcuk_: you don't need asm to optimize this code, the first change would be to get rid of switch in the inner loop15:50
dennis_mipsthanks for the help !15:50
lcuk_/ eventually do this with a -- to remove the constants: if(!(dx--)){ ... }15:50
lcuk_i know...15:50
ssvblcuk_: I mean you con optimize it a lot even without asm15:50
lcuk_what i could do in 68k i was having trouble making gcc compile,   i could have done move.l (a0)+,(a1)+ for 32bit,   followed immediately by move.w (a0)+,(a1)+ for 16bit etc but doing postinc on the casted values gave me errors about lvalues15:52
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lcuk_*(unsigned char  *)dstdataptr++ = *(unsigned char  *)srcdataptr  ;       would be filled with fail no matter how i tried to coax it15:53
lcuk_(replace char with the short/int longer variations)15:53
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ssvblcuk_: it is not a big deal, gcc will generate postincrement instructions anyway even for your current code15:54
lcuk_but will it postinc by the original data size (byte) or by the casted size (int) - i think i could only get it incrementing by chars15:55
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ssvblcuk_: it can postincrement by any constant value (well, there is some limit, but it is much higher than any standard data type size)15:56
ssvblcuk_: your problem is a switch in the inner loop and load-use pipeline stalls15:56
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ssvblcuk_: just unrolling the loop in a normal way will solve all the problems15:57
lcuk_-o2 removes most of that15:57
lardmandennis_mips: You got it working then?15:57
lcuk_there is no problem though - it is rapid15:57
lcuk_it would be more rapider i agree but i couldnt solve the postinc thing15:58
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ssvblcuk_: you don't need so solve postinc problem, it does not exist16:00
lcuk_cpy(char *dest,char *src){       *(int *)dest++ = *(int *)src++;     }       incriments src and dest by 1 byte instead of expected 4 bytes (if i remember rightly)16:00
ssvblcuk_: the compiler generates instructions like this 'ldrr3, [r2], #4'/'strr3, [lr], #4'16:01
lcuk_ill double check when i get home but i couldnt force  the 4 bytes (hence the constants in the fragment)16:01
ssvblcuk_: just don't invent funny code and use '*(int *)dest = *(int *)src; dst += 4; src += 4;'16:02
lcuk_thats what i do..16:02
lcuk_but i alweays thought adding constants into the code made for MUCH slower than just using the postinc instructions built into the move opcode16:03
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ssvblcuk_: that's why I tell that postincrement problem does not exist for you16:03
ssvblcuk_: we have optimizing compilers and this optimization is trivial16:03
lcuk_:) ok then, well ill do my todo and remove the already optimized out switch block16:04
ssvblcuk_: on the other hand, the compiler can't get rid of your switch efficiently and performance suffers16:04
timelesssp3000: ay near HEL?16:05
lcuk_thx ssvb, ill see if it makes a diff will post numbers later16:05
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ssvblcuk_: you need to just do something like 'while ((size -= 8) >= 0) { copy 8 bytes }; size += 8; while (size-- > 0) { copy 1 byte }'16:08
sp3000timeless: yeah in hel16:08
sp3000well, espoo16:08
sp3000but, hel in spirit16:08
ssvblcuk_: you can replace 8 with any other constant, benchmarking which one is faster16:09
timelessi'm having lunch across from work :/16:09
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timelessit's going to take an hour to scp a dvd iso from my laptop to swift16:09
timelessit's getting maybe 1.5mbps on a 100mb link16:10
lcuk_ssvb, yer ive unrolled the rectdraw function in a similar manner, thanks.   back later16:10
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sp3000unless you're specifically looking for someone to sneeze on your food, I'll pass :P16:12
sp3000wow, that's ...slow16:13
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* sp3000 beats hardy's 30-metric-aliases.conf into submission and can read the web again without having to first untangle the poor characters from each other16:16
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ssvblardman: btw, have you tries '-vcore=3' optimization option for DSP?16:20
lardmanssvb: I've not seen that one16:20
ssvblardman: damn typos, s/tries/tried16:20
lardmanssvb: where did you find it?16:20
timelessdoes metric aliases break 1k=1024?16:20
lardman:) I know the feeling16:20
sp3000don't think so :)16:21
Khertanraaaaaahhhh someone have problem to connecting repository.maemo.org ?16:21
sp3000but it does map helvetica to something that renders like crap in fx, instead of admitting not having one16:21
Khertani can get thing from my wmware image from any other repository ... but not the *.maemo.org16:21
ssvblardman: spru28116:22
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ssvblardman: that's something like -mcpu/-march from gcc16:22
lardmanyep, found it16:22
lardmando we know which core version we have?16:22
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ssvblardman: do you remember the link to some rev3 c55x discussion I have posted earlier?16:24
sp3000Khertan: no16:24
sp3000at least my browser doesn't16:24
sp3000have trouble talking to rmo16:25
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lardmanssvb: Not off the top of my head, but I can find it, or just compile some code to ask the DSP what rev it is. No problem16:25
Khertanhum ... so it s from my isp16:26
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puslingwhat are the apps I need to prevent to start (and what other modifications do I need) if I don't want any of the maemo user interface on n800 to start ? ;)16:42
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Stskeepspusling: you might be interested in debian for internet tablets16:45
puslingStskeeps: I am in the long run, but right now, I am just using the base system.16:46
Stskeeps*nod*16:46
Stskeepswe're making installer for the tablet atm with the goal to "do it right", so you can install using the tablet only, and get any level of functionality you want16:46
summatusmentisStskeeps: really? cool!16:47
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Stskeepssummatusmentis: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian-installer.JPG16:49
Stskeepsinstead of the huge tar.gz16:49
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Stskeepsgot it at console fb stage atm16:51
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summatusmentisStskeeps: very nice. I don't like huge tarballs, my internet bites16:53
summatusmentisalso, putty? really? Just install linux on your desktop :)16:53
Stskeepssummatusmentis: meh, work related :P16:54
summatusmentislol16:54
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Stskeepsi use nexenta/opensolaris on my server, xp on my desktop(s), linux on my wireless router, freebsd on dorm servers, so i think i'm covered16:55
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summatusmentisdorm servers?16:55
summatusmentislike, servers in your dorm?16:55
Stskeepsyeah, 1000 people dorm and i admin the servers here :P16:56
summatusmentisoh, cool :)16:56
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Stskeepshttp://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian-post-bootstrap.JPG and http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian-alldone.JPG as well16:57
RST38hyawn16:57
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Churlquestion:  how do i enter a WEP hex password on the n800?  can it be done?16:59
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Churland good morning to all16:59
summatusmentiswell... it's morning anyway17:01
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Churltrue that17:01
Churlany idea on the wep hex password issue?17:02
summatusmentisnope, I live in the boonies, we don't encrypt our wireless17:02
Churlhaha lucky for you i guess17:02
summatusmentiswell, I don't know...17:02
Churlim in atlanta17:02
Churleating tofu17:03
Churlnot really17:03
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summatusmentistofu == win17:03
Churlyay!17:05
Churlwell, someone contact me if you can tell me how i can enter a WEP hex password!17:06
timelesschurl: i think the only trick is that you're only supposed to use one of uppercase or lowercase17:06
timelessand i can't remember which :)17:06
summatusmentisit doesn't just work in the gui?17:06
timelessthe system will figure out if it's hex or ascii based on the password length17:06
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Churlcool, ill wack at it again17:09
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Churl*wacking17:10
summatusmentiserm... make sure you clean up afterwards...17:11
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Churli gave up on that years ago, just accept the filth17:12
summatusmentislol17:12
Churlhmm still no luck:  internet connection failed.  unable to retrieve IP address from server. wep key may be incorrect. try again?17:13
Churlthe key works fine on my linux box17:13
Churlc0ffee412317:14
summatusmentiswhere do you live again?17:14
RST38hsumma: Do you really have to ask?17:15
RST38hGeorgia, US17:15
summatusmentisoh hrr17:15
Churlme too!17:16
Churli read that entering a 36 digit hex key from the router can work17:17
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Churlnow to just figure out how to get that......17:18
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Churlatlanta!17:27
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puslingwhat triggers "mount events" during boot ?17:40
puslingor - how do I ensure that my mmc card gets mounted ?17:41
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hrwChurl: you still use wep??17:42
Churlim at a coffee shop, ill leave mine unlocked17:42
RST38hhrw: And we know the key, too!17:42
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hrwRST38h: only ssid is lacking17:43
RST38hI am sure his AP advertises it =)17:44
hrw;D17:45
Churlyay!17:46
sp3000hey, does the partial update stuff (always) demand / force a reboot?17:46
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RST38hsp3000: depends17:47
Churlwant the ssid?17:48
sp3000RST38h: so it either does or doesn't case by case?17:48
puslinganyone with a relative pristine n800 that can do ls /etc/rc2.d/ and pastebin the output ? ;)17:49
RST38hsp3000: yes17:50
hrwsp3000: by case and by crazy ideas of package developers17:50
sp3000k, thanks17:50
Churlstill no luck with wep hex password17:50
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RST38hAs in "face the camera and pinch your left ear thrice"17:50
RST38hChurl: Why aren't you using ASCII password?17:50
Churlim at a coffee shop17:51
Churlif that helps17:51
sp3000and c0ffee is clearly hex17:52
sp3000so the wep key has to be too, for consistency17:52
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Churlc0ffee4123 is the wep key17:53
Churlthe network knows it's looking for a hex key, but maybe the problem is with the router?  i was reading something about me needing to put in a longer hex password, and that's where im lost17:54
sp3000heh17:54
Churllike a 30 digit key17:54
inzMy WEP hex network key works just fine, which is the same length as yours17:55
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Churlyeah, it should, it cant resolve an ip17:58
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Churlpossible a router sensitivity17:58
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ChurlWEIRDNESS!18:01
Churlgoogle is saying others have had this some problem, "my linux box works fine, but my n800 wont work"18:02
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RST38hChurl: this looks like an ascii key18:08
RST38hChurl: N800 *may* treat it as hex when you enter it though18:08
RST38hIn this case, the best way to avoid it will be to modify wifi config directly18:08
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Churlmeaning?18:10
RST38hwell, the coffee... thing can be treated either as an ascii string or a hex string18:11
Churl(thanks :))18:11
RST38hc0ffee4123 is 5 bytes or 40 bits18:12
RST38h*or* it is 10 characters i.e. 80 bits18:12
RST38hNeither is a proper wep key length btw18:13
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Churl(sorry, im talking to an old crazy homeless man, he's very nice and is always here at the coffee shop with his laptop)18:13
RST38hActually, 40 bits is the shortest possible wep key18:13
Churldistractions18:14
RST38hlet us say it is hex and find a way to enter it while avoiding os2008 gui18:14
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Churlis that possible?18:15
RST38hyes18:15
Churlive looked for a way to do that.    command line?18:16
RST38hlooking for it at the moment18:16
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RST38hChurl: there should be wictl or a similar tool18:19
Churl:) is that something id have to download?18:20
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RST38hI am pretty sure there should be a copy installed already18:22
RST38hUnfortunately, I do not have a tablet here. Going home in a moment. If you are still here when I come home, will try to find it.18:22
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Churloh ill be here, thanks very much!18:23
zpolhola18:23
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newmaemouserHello18:32
summatusmentishi18:32
puslingis somewhere documented what hulda, hildon, osso, ... exactly are ?18:35
GeneralAntillesWikipedia, a bit.18:35
GeneralAntilleshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hildon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITOS18:36
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puslingI want to prevent the user interface to launch, but still have the network configuration thingie, the automount tihngie and so on to do their jobs18:36
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newmaemouserThis 810 is pretty cool.  Does anyone have any programs or things to set up that they think are essential?  I just got it yesterday.18:39
Saviqhi all, is there any way to run j2me apps on the n8x0?18:39
Churlpidgin!18:39
GeneralAntillesPidgin is gross.18:39
Churlreally?18:40
Churli love the icon!18:40
SaviqGeneralAntilles: why? 'cause of the logo? ;)18:40
newmaemouserWhat do you prefer, general?18:40
Saviqthe logo is gross, true..18:40
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GeneralAntillesnewmaemouser, mplayer, Canola2, FBReader, lxDoom, Quake, XChat, Modest, ScummVM, Numpty Physics, Maemo Mapper, Vagalume, Garnet VM, x11vnc18:40
GeneralAntillesrtcomm18:40
Churloh god!  had it as my background for a while...18:40
GeneralAntillesThe built-in chat framework.18:40
GeneralAntillesNo need to run an extra program to eat up taskbar space.18:41
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Churlthats cooll18:41
newmaemouserGeneral, does it run everything pidgin does?18:41
GeneralAntillesIt's libpurple.18:42
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GeneralAntillesChinook doesn't include all the plugins18:42
GeneralAntillesbut Collabora has most of them in their repository18:42
qwerty12Hmm, that reminds me, I need to make a new version of x11vnc compiled from the latest version and merges penguinbait's and msaunby's work together.18:42
GeneralAntillesand you can get the rest if you install the rtcomm beta.18:42
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, and push it to the autobuilder? =)18:43
Churlis there a working version of vnc viewer?18:43
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, I shall try sometime to get it in -devel, I don't trust myself enough for extras and having it in extras would be very convienent.18:43
GeneralAntillesIt's on Garag, Churl.18:44
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, the autobuilder should take care of MOST of the QA. ;)18:44
qwerty12Nice18:44
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qwerty12I'm getting a lot better at packaging, the latest pidgin-facebookchat plugin I just put out is a "standard" package.18:45
Khertan:)18:46
Churlgarage?18:47
qwerty12garage is http://garage.maemo.org/ but I think you want http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/ in this case.18:47
newmaemouserOne more thing - before I mess with this too much, is there a way I can backup *everything* in case I hose it?18:47
eocanhaqwerty12: are you the mantainer of x11vnc?18:48
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, no.18:48
puslingif I during boot of my n800 have a init script waiting for the mmc card to get mounted, this loops forever until I plug it out and in again. Then it gets instant mounted. How do I "replay" this event manually ?18:48
GeneralAntillesChurl, https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=119&release_id=121918:48
newmaemouserIs the built-in backup software enough?18:48
Churlsorry, im still unfamilier with all these programs, it's a whole lot of new stuff, all scattered developed, (from what i can tell )18:48
GeneralAntillesnewmaemouser, depends.18:48
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Ah, I thought he wanted the rtcomm18:49
qwerty12eocanha, no but there are already 2 versions of it (and old ones, I plan on putting the improvents of both into one single package)18:49
GeneralAntillesIt backs up settings, emails, stuff in MyDocs, your repository list and a list of applications you have installed18:49
GeneralAntillesbut you'll have to reinstall those applications.18:49
eocanhaok. And I forgot that x11vnc is a vnc server.18:50
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newmaemouserOf course, but is there a chance I could break the OS to the point that I can't restore?18:51
eocanhaThe fact is that the other day I tried to connect to my PC from the N810 with vncviewer and I got duplicated keystrokes. I wondered if that was a spread bug.18:51
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eocanhaAnyway, have a nice weekend18:53
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lardman~lart car insurance companies18:56
* infobot pries car insurance companies's back open with a screwdriver and flashes a new bootldr to car insurance companies18:56
jaskaheh18:57
Stskeepsanyone here who admins garage? especially the svn part of it18:57
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GeneralAntillesTwitter spam on -developers?18:58
lardmanthe buggers have short changed me £30, not sure if it's worth my time to "discuss" it with them really18:58
lardmanGeneralAntilles: yeah, saw that18:58
GeneralAntillesX-Fade and dneary and stalking me on jaiku. O_O18:59
lardman:)18:59
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KhertanHi again !20:10
summatusmentishi Khertan20:10
qwerty12Hello :)20:11
Khertanhum it seems that rtcomm beta is not installable :(20:11
qwerty12Put the tablet into redpill20:11
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GeneralAntillesKhertan, follow the instructions on the website. ;)20:12
lardmanbmidgley: ping20:12
Khertanyes but there is a conflict with some libs20:12
Khertanand i prefer to not break anything20:12
Khertan:)20:12
Khertanis there still anydate for diablo ?20:13
Khertanor prevision ?20:13
GeneralAntillesFew weeks.20:13
GeneralAntillesWhen it's ready.20:13
Khertanwhen it s ready < i hope :)20:14
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summatusmentisa few weeks? really? cool20:19
GeneralAntillesMeh, maybe.20:20
GeneralAntillesWho knows.20:20
summatusmentiswe're gonna have to re-flash the last time, right?20:20
GeneralAntillesThe data of every other Maemo release has always been "when it comes out".20:20
GeneralAntillesYou know it's out when it's out.20:20
GeneralAntillessummatusmentis, yes, it'll be a reflash.20:20
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lardmanAny ideas what this means?: "sbc.c", line 82: warning: illegal combination of const-init variable with non-const-init variable in section SARAM_seq20:36
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Khertanre20:38
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summatusmentis7larwhat's line 82 look like?20:40
summatusmentis...20:40
summatusmentislardman: what's line 82 look like?20:40
Khertansomeone know a tool to capture video on nit ?20:40
Stskeepsset up a gstreamer pipeline?20:41
lcuk_Khertan, with a big net?20:41
Khertanhum ... i don t know very well gstreamer20:41
Khertana big net ?20:42
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lcuk_yes, to capture things20:42
Khertanyes20:42
lcuk_lardman, shame ssvb just went :) ive just unrolled my readable blit per suggestions and improved performance a little20:42
Khertanin fact it s to show to someone a mockup of a kinetik scrolling on maemo20:42
lardman#pragma DATA_SECTION(fast_in, "SARAM_seq")20:43
lardmanlooks like I chose the wrong memory section to place my fast array20:43
lardmansorted it now by choosing another one :)20:43
lcuk_khertan, ahhh actual screen capture, not sure - i use my camera20:43
lcuk_and id like to see your kinetic20:43
lardmanlcuk_: I'm sure he'll be interested to hear tomorrow20:43
lcuk_yer its been on my todo for a while but i moved onto other stuff20:43
lcuk_left the readable version there20:44
Khertani don t have camera than the one on my phone but result look like an apple fake with many blur20:44
Khertan1M pixel :)20:44
lcuk_khertan, are you using the normal display or are you using an overlay of some sort20:44
Khertani m using efl20:45
lcuk_infact, khertan, if there aren't too many dependencies it might be an idea to just give the binary20:45
* lcuk_ should practice what he preaches20:45
Khertan:)20:46
lardmanright, to the pub, then back for sbc testing :), eventually20:46
lcuk_have a good night lardman20:46
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lardman|awaylcuk_: cheers, and have a nice weekend, I see the weather will be sunny up north!20:47
Khertanthere is too many dependancies :)20:47
Khertanstskeeps > u are talking about a gstreamer pipeline do u know how to do ?20:47
StskeepsKhertan: you can prolly integrate some codecs that goes from camera -> file20:48
Khertanhum ...20:49
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Stskeepsit's a bit advanced :P20:50
Stskeepsbut if you're going to make something professional, this would be the trick20:50
lcuk_khertan ive seen a gstreamer video encoder, but its based on input from the camera itself, perhaps you could mung it to grab input from the screen20:50
Khertanyes :) too much too do it  from my nit without gcc :)20:50
lcuk_khertan python gstreamer api :) http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/howto_camera_api_bora.html20:51
lcuk_damn broken link, 2 mins20:51
Khertanhah20:51
Khertanhaha20:51
Khertan4.x is broken too20:54
Khertani ll look in google cache20:54
lcuk_2 mins ill post the .py i got from it and was looking at20:54
lcuk_its not pretty i ripped out all the events cos it wouldnt run with them (im not a python hacker) http://pastebin.ca/105203520:55
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Khertanhttp://umeguide.net/C/mobile-user-apps.html20:56
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Khertanfunny to see that ume seem s to be more and more a maemo port :)20:57
Khertanpfffiou data connection is very slow today20:58
Khertanhum can t get your pastebin20:58
Khertanblank page20:58
lcuk_khertan :D vnc to swf - use vnc server and record the display from your desktop20:59
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Khertaneuh ... this could be a solution when i come back to home21:00
lcuk_probably yer21:00
Khertanpost under anonymous in pastebin ?21:01
Khertancan t found it21:06
Khertanso ... i ll try to find it21:06
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hrwhave a nice weekend21:13
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KhertanTried to capture at 800x480, but device returned size 640x48021:17
Khertan:)21:17
Khertanjust a try with webcam21:18
RST38hthe webcam IS 640x48021:18
Khertanyes i knox21:20
Khertanknow21:20
Khertannow :)21:20
Khertanbut the main purpose is too see if i can capture screen with gstreaqmer21:22
lcuk_khertan, initial suggestion might just work im seeing now, but vnc2swf has a python version now http://www.unixuser.org/~euske/vnc2swf/21:22
Khertanbut it s need a vnc server21:24
lcuk_x11vnc is available21:25
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||cwand works well21:25
||cwcould work better, some things you can't click21:25
lcuk_http://mike.saunby.googlepages.com/x11vncfornokia770221:26
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lcuk_im just seeing if i can get it recording now21:26
Khertanarg Tkinter21:27
Khertanno useable on maemo :)21:27
Khertans/no/not21:27
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lcuk_damn, and they include a nogui option21:28
Khertan:)21:28
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Khertanwhy make a nogui option and reclaim tkinter21:37
Khertanthis is stupid21:37
Khertancan t hack it21:39
Khertanthere is too many ref to tkinter21:39
Khertanthere is no vnc client for os200821:44
Khertan?21:44
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GeneralAntillesKhertan, google. :P21:46
GeneralAntilleshttp://vncviewer.garage.maemo.org/21:46
Khertangoogle -> gronmayer -> none :)21:47
Khertanthx21:47
GeneralAntillesNot in a repo. ;)21:47
Khertani have succesfully capture screen !!!!21:47
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Churldo you have to have the repo to apt-get things?21:50
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GeneralAntillesYes, Churl.21:51
Churlthanks, ive been having trouble with those single click installs.  is there an app i need to handle them?21:52
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GeneralAntillesApplication manager21:53
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lcuk_Khertan, what are you capturing with and are you at home now21:54
Churlhaha yeah doesnt work :(21:54
lcuk_i think ive just managed (somehow) to build the c version of vnc2swf and just did something...21:54
GeneralAntillesChurl, how do you mean?21:55
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Churlwell, i was trying to get vncviewer.  i click on the single click install. it messes up and the browers crashs21:55
GeneralAntillesThe .install is for Bora21:56
GeneralAntillesGrab the .deb at the top here: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=119&release_id=121921:56
Churli see, what's bora21:56
Churlcool thanks again as always21:56
GeneralAntilleshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Codenames21:56
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Churloh yeah, i was looking at that, i think i need a study guide.  it's helping with all these new abbriviations21:57
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lcuk_well vnc2swf will build in scratchbox without a problem, x11vnc is available as a server, but recording movies of the device on the device is slowwwwwwwww21:59
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GeneralAntillesChurl, if you come across more abbreviations that you think should be defined there, then either mention them here or stick 'em on the Codenames discussion page.22:00
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||cwhell, just remote controling the 770 is slow22:00
lcuk_770 maybe, but 8x0 has more grunt22:01
Gnutonhi there22:01
lcuk_viewing and controlling my 810 is normally ok and vnc2swf works much betterl from desktop22:01
lcuk_hi Gnuton22:01
Gnutonhey lcuk_22:02
* lcuk_ nearly used a pair of tweezers as stylus :S22:02
Churlneat, ill have internet at my new home (that im moving into when i leave this coffee shop) in about 10 days (that means in a month around here) and id love to add and define terms that new people would need to know22:02
lcuk_churl, you are staying in the coffee shop for 10days?22:03
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Khertanre22:03
Churlmaybe:( this is my 4th day in a row22:03
lcuk_Khertan, i got vnc2swf compiled for the device, but results are NOT optimal, best off using desktop to do the recording22:03
Khertanlcuk > i ve do it on device with a twikked vnc2swf22:03
lcuk_the .py version?22:03
Khertanyes22:04
lcuk_you are a python god :)22:04
Khertanresult seems good enought22:04
lcuk_are you uploading your example vid then or shall we wait22:04
* lcuk_ wonders why he had poor results22:04
Churlhttps://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=119&release_id=121922:05
Khertani ll try but phone battery is dying22:05
lcuk_you are a star khertan :)i see the nokia has given you escape from a boring train journey22:06
Khertanyes :)22:06
Khertani was doing onboard compile on palm before22:06
lcuk_i drive to work so lose that time, but when im out smoking i have a quick hack at mine and gcc is certainly quick enough to work well - i use gcc on device at night as well now its configured22:07
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ShadowJK.22:18
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Kekerotarg maemo.org is so slow :(22:26
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GeneralAntillesServer upgrades are forthcoming.22:28
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puslinghmm... when not running the hildon-desktop init script, sd cards are not automounted.22:37
puslingwhat are hildon-desktop doing ? ;)22:38
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Khertanre22:48
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Khertanbattery died :)22:48
Kekerotdo you guys encode your movies or just leave them at the usual 700mb22:49
Churlgood question22:51
GeneralAntilles700MB doesn't mean anything.22:53
GeneralAntillesBitrate and resolution.22:53
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Churlwhat's a typical size a person could get a movie to?22:57
GeneralAntillesFor the an N8x0?22:58
Churlyeah22:58
GeneralAntillesSize I wouldn't worry too much about.22:58
KekerotIve only got 6 gigs to work with lol :O22:58
GeneralAntillesFor best performance, something around 400x240 @ 1200Kbps with MPEG4 and MP3 audio (44.1KHz or lower)22:58
KekerotI need to get an 8gb minisd22:58
Churli took out my 2 gig from my camera for my tablet22:59
KekerotI wish they put more internal space in the n81022:59
GeneralAntillesYou can usually get away with a higher resolution if you can handle a little framedrop every now and then.22:59
Churlneat23:00
GeneralAntillesI've had success with widescreen stuff in the 6xx*2xx range23:00
KekerotIs there a conversion utility for videos people use for nits?23:00
GeneralAntilleswith just a hint of framedrop in the high-action scenes.23:00
GeneralAntillesKekerot, what platform.23:00
GeneralAntilles?23:00
Kekerotwindows23:00
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.nokia.com/A468805923:01
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ChurlGA:  what was that IM app that you liked better than pidgin?23:01
Kekerotsweet thanks23:01
GeneralAntillesThe built-in one.23:01
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lcukre23:01
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GeneralAntillesEither set up a transport for your preferred network with Google Talk or download the Collabora Telepathy plugins.23:02
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KekerotGA what os do you use on your desktop/laptop?23:02
Churli didnt think it had a built in one23:02
lcukssvb, i unrolled the loop earlier and obtained a modest performance benefit :) thanks for advice23:03
Churlchat!23:03
GeneralAntillesOS X23:03
GeneralAntillesChurl, see the Accounts under Control panel.23:03
acydlordI've been starting to use the built in client more than pidgin23:03
Churli do now23:04
GeneralAntillesThere's too much work involved with Pidgin.23:04
Kekerotyou have a mac GA?23:04
ssvblcuk: you are welcome :)23:04
acydlordbut it was too messy with transports23:04
GeneralAntillesYes, Kekerot.23:04
Khertanlcuk > i m uploading video23:04
acydlordmy only gripe on the built in client is that it doesnt tab convos23:04
GeneralAntillesacydlord, file an enhancement request?23:05
acydlordi was just about to say thats what i should do lol23:05
Churlit doesnt look like i can use AIM through Chat23:05
lcukKhertan, :) wicked, are you home now23:05
lcukor have you mugged another random person on the train and borrowed their bandwidth23:05
acydlordyou can use aim23:05
Khertanyes23:06
Churlthe wizard doesnt give the option23:06
Khertanmy phone  battery died23:06
GeneralAntillesChurl, either set up a Google Talk transport or add the Collabora repo from gronmayer and install the appropriate Telepathy plugin.23:06
acydlordi installed the chat beta and then the telepathy haze plugs23:06
lcukyou said it might23:06
Churlwow, and pidgin is too much?23:06
GeneralAntillesIt's just one thing to install23:06
GeneralAntillesNot everyday of using the client.23:06
towopidgin doesn't use the throbber. *g*23:06
acydlordthrobber and the led are worth it23:07
Churlnot familiar with throbber23:07
Churlsounds sexy ;)23:07
lcukfamily channel, could you keep your throbbers covered please23:07
towoThe littlel ight blinking when you have messages.23:07
GeneralAntillestowo, depending on the purpose of that comment, either install the pidgin notification plugin or turn off IM notifications in Control panel.23:07
acydlordGeneralAntilles, shoul i file an enhancement request in bugzilla or launchpad?23:07
GeneralAntilleslaunchpad?23:07
acydlordhttps://launchpad.net/maemo23:07
towoGeneralAntilles: I don't think it makes my little light glow when used.23:08
Khertanlcuk > khertan.net23:08
GeneralAntillesWeird, acydlord, never seen that.23:08
GeneralAntillesDefinitely Bugzilla.23:08
Khertandoes it play smoothly ?23:08
acydlordi ran into it a few weeks back lol23:08
Khertanit doesn t on my home computer23:08
GeneralAntillesacydlord, was that officially set up?23:09
acydlordnot quite sure23:09
acydlordit was set up by ubuntu staff it looks like23:10
GeneralAntillesWeird23:10
Khertanlcuk the first try i ve made was far better23:10
lcukyer khertan, performance is dead here, its static, you could try sending and processing on your desktop now you are home - that should free up the 810 to actually render the UI23:11
acydlordit's probably because they are using maemo as the base of ubuntu mobile23:11
lcuki think you're best bet would be a desktop pc webcam or proper cam with movie mode23:12
Khertani ll try later i ll cook23:12
lopzre23:12
lcuki just dont think the little 810 has enough grunt to do everything itself23:12
lcukok Khertan :) enjoy your meal   i just had pizza23:13
GeneralAntillesacydlord, yeah, odd that they would set it up that way.23:13
acydlordindeed23:13
GeneralAntillesJust seems like a good way to confuse people. :\23:13
acydlordi was looking through the threads and it does look to be for ubuntu-mobile23:13
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GeneralAntillesAnyway, yeah, stick it on Bugzilla and I'll vote for it. ;)23:14
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acydlordk, will do23:18
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JaffaEvening, all!23:31
* Jaffa is back, after 14 days, over 1800 miles and over 39 hours of driving.23:32
lcukwb jaffa23:32
lcukdid you have a good trip23:32
JaffaYeah, very good. Slightly tanned, lots of booze in the car ready for consumption over the summer. Very knackered.23:33
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acydlordhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3271 vote away =x23:33
GeneralAntillesWoo, Jaffa!23:33
lcuki hope you made mrs jaffa drive whilst you sat in the back drinking :D23:34
JaffaMrs Jaffa's driving would need it ;-)23:34
JaffaOh, bugger - she's now in the room.23:34
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lcuklol23:36
GAN800Jaffa, you missed a goldmine of crazy from Darius on -developers. fanoush discovered that he has a rather interesting background, too.23:39
JaffaGAN800: Oh, cool - I'll look out for it once I've dealt with label:Webmail23:40
lcuk(GA means: Darius has an interesting background, not that Fanaush has gone senile and forgotten everything hes ever done)23:41
Jaffa:)23:41
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acydlordwow, my google mail accounts have been crap lately23:44
acydlordimap rarely ever logs in properly23:44
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JaffaGAN800: I see one thread he started about the council, that the one you're thinking of?23:51
JaffaGAN800: Oh, and he responded to your mail too.23:52
GeneralAntillesYeah23:52
GeneralAntillesI think it was split at some point, too.23:52
GeneralAntillesNever really got any useful discussion out of that. :D23:52
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