IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2008-06-15

darkblue_Bbut... the flash utility on Ubuntu is saying..Error claiming USB Interface: Operatin not permitted00:00
darkblue_Btried twice .. no luck yet00:00
darkblue_Bah so00:00
darkblue_Bthx so much qwerty12_N80000:00
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darkblue_Bok.. getting further...00:03
darkblue_Bit rebooted but it doesnt look like the new system to me00:03
darkblue_Bnope )S200700:03
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darkblue_Bstarted the flasher.. withthe device plugged in, rebooted w/ home key.. USB mode comes up , the flasher sees it..00:07
darkblue_BFlasher says 100% downloaded.. BUT then00:07
darkblue_BFinishing Flashing.. Sending request 0x52 failed!00:07
darkblue_BUnable to get error strings: Connection Timed out00:07
darkblue_Bgreen line is stopped ... near the beginning00:08
darkblue_BI just tried a second N800.... same result ....00:12
Tobait's not bricked is it?00:12
TobaI've spent a few hours at least installing software and configuring it.. is there a way to update without just flashing over the entire thing?00:13
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darkblue_Bno.. it just boots after the failures... they both do00:14
darkblue_Bmea culpa00:15
lcukdarkblue, if you have windows available, might be an idea to try the windows flasher - it may be a bit friendlier?00:16
darkblue_Bwrong capital Fs and Rs00:16
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darkblue_Bno it appears I got it00:16
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* lcuk hates the command line00:16
darkblue_Byeah.. me too.. I can do it though00:17
* Toba <3 cmd line00:17
Tobait's a pain on the little kb though so I installed openssh00:17
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darkblue_Bhey Q.. I have my unit set up with ssh and vnc00:22
darkblue_Bto save some time now that I have ths next unit flashedm, I was going to do a backup/restore on it00:22
darkblue_Bbut.. my associate is british, so he set his to british english00:23
darkblue_Bmine is US english00:23
darkblue_Bdo you think there would be some thing quirky about using restore is the basic OS setting was diferent like that?00:23
darkblue_BI thnk I'll just try it00:25
darkblue_BI can just flash thte thing again if there are problems00:26
lcukset his to us english, restore settings, change back to british :)00:29
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darkblue_Bok.. did a backup.. now to get the backup onto the other machine00:34
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darkblue_Bany idea how to find the contents of a single internal card in the command line world?00:44
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DekaritaeIt's not /media/mmc2 ?00:46
darkblue_BDekaritae: thats it - thx00:47
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timelyxGeneralAntilles why isn't "MediaWiki naming guidelines" a link?01:08
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summatusmentis <- that sort of remind anyone of anything?01:10
timelyxGeneralAntilles: grrr. someone created tms by name?01:11
timelyxthat's insane01:11
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timelyxGeneralAntilles: and sadly they can't count either.01:13
* timelyx wonders what maemo4.0.1 is01:13
timelyxcould someone ask qwerty12 to load about:crashes in firefox3 ?01:15
summatusmentisjust regular firefox3?01:15
summatusmentislike, on a destkop, vs. tablet?01:16
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summatusmentiswtf... ignore my previous link, I have no idea what that is01:16
summatusmentis <- Does _that_ remind anyone of anything?01:17
timelyxandre___: you're enjoying maemo-developers? :)01:18
dick-richardsonn810 showed up :D01:19
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fuelfiveanyone had luck modifying the root image?01:19
timelyxcould someone tell mgedmin thanks re:crypto tale :)01:20
fuelfiveI'm following, but keep getting IO errors01:20
fuelfivetar: ./sbin/udhcpc: Read error at byte 0, while reading 7168 bytes: Input/output error01:20
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timelyxsomeone tell unixsnob to google wyciwyg (and wysiwyg) [c=cache]01:27
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timelyxsummatusmentis: no idea, there wasn't enough context for me to tell01:31
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timelyxif it was on the tablet then about:crashes should be blank01:31
timelyxhrm, i didn't get much of a karma boost for blogging01:32
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timelyxbut seriously, what is maemo4.0.1? if i were to guess, it'd be diablo01:35
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* timelyx chuckles01:56
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timelyx <- someone should bring Bruce to maemo-developers, he'd change his tune about frustration + /. :)01:56
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* timelyx sighs02:00
timelyxwould someone please explain to me how one *accidentally* selects close all windows?02:01
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sp3000unlock, pocket :)02:02
sp3000though it's still a bit unlikely02:03
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sp3000a more likely scenario would be using the menu to close one window because you're fullscreen and don't have a corner X, then miss in the menu02:04
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sp3000and then ctrl-q is near ctrl-w02:04
timelyxctrl-q should never be bound to anything02:05
timelyxthat's some UE designer's error, for which they should be fired :)02:05
timelyxquit all windows/quit application should really be bound to "use the power button"02:06
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timelyxbut i'm pretty sure the bug report i'm about to read is about the menu item02:07
timelyx(which i'd rather we hadn't implemented at all, but...)02:07
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timelyxdon't suppose you remember where UI Specs are buried in bugs.maemo?02:10
timelyxoh, it's a product02:11
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andre___timelyx, it's a product now02:11
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timelyxi sure didn't remember it being there when i was fixing tm links02:11
andre___yeah. maybe easier to streamline those bugs and avoid devs closing them as wontfix02:11
andre___i created it a week ago02:12
timelyxotoh, i wasn't paying much attn02:12
andre___(got to go, later)02:12
sp3000also, I have witnessed finns dancing some sort of polka in a circle02:12
timelyxi mass changed product milestone links on friday02:12
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timelyxsp3000: were they drunk?02:12
sp3000the trauma will stay with me forever I'm sure02:12
timelyxmore importantly, were you drunk?02:12
* sp3000 was at a friend's wedding02:12
timelyxdid your n8x0 record a video of it?02:13
sp3000you realize these people are insane, and then you realize you're right in the middle02:13
sp3000no, I don't think I got it on gps either :P02:13
sp3000I'm sure there's some documentation somewhere02:13
sp3000maybe, eventually02:14
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timelyxvhs would be better than gps, but :)02:15
timelyxdo i want to watch the ui-specification component?02:15
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timelyxor do i want to get dinner02:15
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timelyx01:27 timelyx someone tell unixsnob to google wyciwyg (and wysiwyg) [c=cache]02:16
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timelyxandre___: wow, you found someone willing to be an assignee for bugs?02:16
timelyx(actually, that will eventually prove to be unwise, but hey, i'll enjoy watching)02:16
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* timelyx sighs02:17
* timelyx needs to disable js based gmail02:17
timelyxit doesn't work here02:17
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timelyxsomeone installed mplayer-plugin on diablo02:22
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GAN800timely, there's an announcement on about 4.0.1. It corresponds to 50-2.02:30
infobotGAN800 meant: timelyx, there's an announcement on about 4.0.1. It corresponds to 50-2.02:30
GAN800I had the same questions about the TMs.02:30
GAN800dneary needs to be poked about linkifying the mediawiki guidelines. I wasn't able to produce them quickly when I looked.02:31
timelyxdon't worry about nicks, i respond to them all02:32
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GAN800timelyx, bug #3248 doesn't seem to happen in fullscreen, only windowed.02:39
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timelyxplease comment02:39
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timelyxis dead ? :)02:55 seems dead too..02:56
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* timelyx tries to figure out why of mice men ended up on planet03:04
* timelyx cries03:05
timelyxoh well "fixed" :)03:06
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* timelyx had done a reedit w/o fixing the timestamp, and the timestamper picked up and froze the reedit date03:07
mikedep3331hey, I saw that canola now has a uPnP plugin03:07
mikedep3331is that the same as the media sharing for the file manager? in OS 2008?03:07
timelyxum, media sharing may or may not also include cifs03:08
mikedep3331I know about SMBFS/CIFS03:08
timelyxnot sure, since i've never seen "media sharing"03:08
timelyxbut otherwise yeah, the file manager is basically upnp+cifs afaik03:08
mikedep3331by media sharing I mean videos/audio03:08
mikedep3331does windows media player do upnp?03:08
timelyxask google? :)03:09
timelyxmy WMPs don't work03:09
shackanmikedep3331: I've desperately tried to03:09
shackanthen I gave up and rebooted03:09
shackan(anyway, is canola able to list more than a hundred songs via upnp? because I could never see my whole song list, no matter what server I tried)03:10
mikedep3331I think it is in beta03:10
shackanI know03:11
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Proteousare dpads really that hard to make not suck?03:48
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KotCzarnylogitech and olpc get it right03:48
Proteousmaybe you can give nokia some tips03:48
Proteousall it would take is a nice dpad and the n810 could have a cool gaming selling point03:50
Proteousthere arfe some severe space limitations they had to work with but still03:52
mikedep3331well, what's an easy and effective way to share out media on a linux (ubuntu 8.04) desktop?03:52
Proteousapt-cache search upnp?03:53
mikedep3331I did that03:53
mikedep3331I am thinking of installing this one program03:53
ProteousI have a upnp server running on my windows server03:54
Proteousworks great for streaming to my 81003:54
ProteousI'm not familiar with any linux apps though03:55
Proteousmythtv and mediatomb ssem to be the most popular linux choices03:57
darkblue_Boh.. I just found geexbox.. command line only03:58
darkblue_BI dont a thing about it.. just saw this go by03:58
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darkblue_BI do have a bunch of mp3. like many03:58
darkblue_Bseems intruiging, if its not to much hassle03:58
timelyxProteous: nintendo got them right in 199804:02
timelyxbut it seems it's hard up north04:02
timelyxerr... Proteous: nintendo got them right in 198804:02
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pekujadon't you mean 1980? (Game & Watch)04:06
pekujawell ok, maybe that wasn't yet "right"04:07
pekujabut wasn't Game Boy 1989?04:07
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darkblue_BI was a network engineer in 1988.. TCP/IP didnt work that well then.. companies had different solutions.. Vines and TokenRing products were big in business04:11
* timelyx liked vines04:12
timelyxor rather my dad did04:12
* timelyx was a bit young then04:12
timelyxtokenring was a different layer though, no?04:12
timelyxor are you describing it as the pair vines over tokenring?04:13
WorkingOnWisedid IBM have some big marketing campaign about tcp back then?04:13
darkblue_Bwell, I worked on Apple products.. so I cant tell you chapter and verse04:13
darkblue_Bthough I looked over the shoulder of the TCP/IP guys04:13
WorkingOnWiseor was it lantastic?04:13
timelyxwe used apple ii products at school :)04:14
timelyxappletalk and friends04:14
darkblue_Bthere was MIDI.. but digital music on that kind of hardware was a long way off04:15
* timelyx misses midi04:15
darkblue_Bthe CD happened, but the net and storage couldnt keep up with it04:15
timelyxit really sucks that it's so hard to find music in midi format04:15
darkblue_B.. on ordinary machines04:15
timelyxand of course iirc the itos audio/media player don't even support it out of the box04:16
timelyxi usually just want the instruments for songs, so i can sing along w/ the sheet music04:16
darkblue_Ball of this apropos to the musings about GameBoys in 1988 or whatever.. certainly nowhere near serving lists of x100 songs, as we are talking aout now!04:16
* timelyx disagrees04:17
* timelyx had >>500 midi files by 199204:17
timelyxand uis to handle it really did exist back then04:18
timelyxthere were also tracker apps (totally different from today's trackers)04:18
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darkblue_Bwhere are they now!04:23
n800mwhat's new and exciting04:24
n800many new debs for ~noobs?04:24
timelyxis that "like noobs" or "not noobs"?04:24
johnxI figured wiggly noobs04:25
timelyxn800m: ~ has other meanings in math/cs04:26
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n800myeah it's the new 'fanboy'04:26
n800mbuzzword warning04:26
n800mlike "wiggly"04:26
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mikedep3331hey, I keep on seeing people saying they are running stuff on diablo04:40
mikedep3331where do I get it?04:40
johnxIt's a somewhat working leaked beta copy04:42
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timelyxmikedep3331: officially no one is supposed to explain how to o it04:43
timelyxbut basically once you have the instructions, you can get weekly updates04:43
johnxnot only that, but you probably don't want it04:43
timelyxyeah well.. that too04:43
mikedep3331too buggy?04:43
timelyxafter all, everyone seems to complain it's buggy :)04:43
johnxa little buggy, but more than that: almost nothing has changed04:43
mikedep3331is the web browser faster?04:44
johnxnot really04:44
timelyxjohnx: *shrug* the only major changes was a daemonized browser and a new mail client04:44
mikedep3331oh well04:44
timelyxmikedep3331: the browser change is mostly that if the engine crashes, your ui survives04:44
timelyxwhich means you might not lose the urls of the pages you're visiting..04:44
mikedep3331so it is basically they just added support for wimax?04:45
johnxand when it's released you will be able to upgrade to new versions of diablo without reflashing04:45
johnxmikedep3331, oh, there are plenty of small bug fixes04:45
n800mis the browser just as big of a memory hog?04:45
summatusmentis7yeah, it's kind of a boring update04:45
timelyxpractically speaking, it's the same engine04:46
summatusmentisthere's a-gps, but outside of that04:46
summatusmentisnot too much to care about04:46
mikedep3331so despite the fact that there are only minor improvements, it is still overall more buggy?04:46
timelyxhopefully the release after diablo will have an engine like ff304:46
* summatusmentis hasn't run into bugs, but he doesn't run it every day04:46
johnxthe only thing that I'm still really having problems with is the browser taking up a lot of memory *sometimes*04:46
johnxbut it's difficult to reproduce04:47
n800mis it better than this one?04:47
timelyxjohnx: out of curiosity, if we gave you debs which were nonstandard, would you install them?04:47
johnxtimelyx, sure04:47
* timelyx ponders04:48
timelyxhow many windows do you keep open?04:48
mikedep3331so is nokia intending to ultimately go with ubuntu?04:48
johnxI used to run 2 or 304:48
* timelyx suspects the only useful thing would be object tracing04:48
mikedep3331or just incorporate improvements from ubuntu back into maemo?04:48
johnxbut not I just use one and still have the same problem04:48
timelyxand do you have 1-2gb of free space on any of your volumes? :)04:48
mikedep3331or is that too much speculation?04:48
johnxtimelyx, I can manage that in the name of debugging04:48
mikedep3331has anyone got mediatomb to work with canola?04:49
johnxmikedep3331, by the time they trimmed down ubuntu enough to fit in 256MB of flash it would resemble maemo more than ubuntu04:49
summatusmentismikedep3331: I don't know that anyone knows... why do you think Nokia would be doing anything w/ ubuntu?04:49
timelyxso, i think the thing i'll need to get you is a debug microb-engine w/ a change to the start script so it logs object allocs04:49
timelyxor perhaps i'll just give you the ability to tweak the start script04:49
johnxmikedep3331, I was using it last night04:49
timelyxsince you're going to need to go through a couple of iterations04:49
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* timelyx ponders04:50
timelyxok, well... something for me to sleep on04:50
mikedep3331summatusmentis: because they are porting ubuntu to the IT04:50
mikedep3331johnx: are you running ubuntu 8.04 or something similar?04:50
johnxmikedep3331, on my desktop?04:50
mikedep3331to run mediatomb04:51
johnxrunning it on debian04:51
mikedep3331well, here's my problem04:51
johnxtimelyx, ok. I'm up for whatever.04:51
mikedep3331wait, let me try something04:52
dick-richardsonit's like I have my right hand back04:53
mikedep3331oh, my firewall is up04:54
timelyxjohnx: k... i can give you some stuff to read in advance04:54
Navistuff to read04:54
johnxtimelyx, sounds fair04:54
timelyxis probably the starting point04:55
timelyxthe web site has reorganized since i learned the tools04:55
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johnxdoesn't look too bad04:56
timelyxyeah i think that's a fairly current overview04:56
timelyxyou'll need to read at least 1 link depth beyond it04:56
johnxawesome :P04:57
timelyxif you have a scratchbox, it's technically possible for you to build the microb-engine part debug yourself04:57
timelyxinstead of waiting for me to find a build for you04:57
johnxI'll see if I can resurrect my scratchbox install after I get back from work today04:57
summatusmentishow does scratchbox work?04:58
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johnxclever tricks and an arm emulator04:58
summatusmentisanything at all like OpenEmbedded? or not?04:58
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johnxthey both cross compile, but the similiarity ends there04:59
summatusmentisso it is a cross compile env04:59
timelyxor not04:59
timelyxit's just a foreign env04:59
timelyxit doesn't have to be cross04:59
summatusmentiscompile w/in the arm emulator?05:00
timelyxyou can use it to deal w/ debian from a red hat box05:00
timelyxor you can use it to compile onto a remote device (sb-rsh ?)05:00
timelyxbut you can't really use it from a 64bit box05:00
timelyx(not w/o massive headaches)05:00
summatusmentisoh, well that's lame :)05:00
timelyxand it doesn't work well (or at all?) from other platforms (osx, solaris, ppc)05:01
* timelyx shrugs05:01
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timelyxit's your typically "i need something for me" tool05:01
timelyxit works w/in very restrictive limits05:01
timelyxand in the end, setting it up isn't worth the price of vmware05:01
timelyxso just get a vmware player and a vmware image :)05:02
summatusmentisI've got vmware fusion, and an ubuntu install05:02
timelyxi think there are at least 2 maemo vmware images05:02
timelyxone from some community group and one from mozilla.org05:02
timelyxif i were johnx, i'd grab the image :)05:03
summatusmentisI could setup maemo on my own if I wanted, without scratchbox? or is scratchbox required?05:03
timelyxyou can build on device05:03
timelyxif you're very very careful05:03
timelyxand somewhat lucky05:04
timelyxi think it's possible for a package to require non busybox versions of tools05:04
timelyxwhich pretty much excludes building directly on device05:04
johnxtimelyx, will look tonight05:04
johnxeating breakfast now05:04
* timelyx is digesting dinner05:04
summatusmentishmm... I'll have to look into it after Summer of Code05:04
* timelyx grumbles05:05
timelyxsomeone made a 10 and buried the vmware image05:05
* timelyx will have to find someone w/ a wiki account to make it point 105:05
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lcukautotools has a massive dependency for debianutils which will pretty much wipe out your device.05:05
lcukbut gcc and make and stuff all work nicely05:05
summatusmentisthat's probably what I did recently05:05
summatusmentiscompletely deleted everything, just by using apt05:06
timelyxprobably if you want to use your device you'll want to install to an mmc05:06
timelyxand boot from it05:06
puttersonis there any way to mount the internal flash of an N810 without booting it into the os?05:06
timelyxputterson: technically yes05:06
puttersoncan it be done without taking it apart?05:06
timelyxprobably depends on your definition of "taking it apart" :)05:07
timelyxif you mean w/o removing the battery cover...05:07
puttersonwithout taking off the battery cover to access any serial ports05:07
puttersonI mean over usb05:07
timelyxyou'd need an os running for that ...05:08
timelyxyou could make a tiny os and stick that in the mmc slot05:08
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timelyxbut it's still an os, and the device is still booted05:08
johnxyou could make a modified initfs that would do it05:08
johnxyou'd still be running the OS of cours05:08
johnxbut not from the rootfs partition05:09
puttersonwell let me tell you the situation and maybe you could guide me to the best solution.05:09
timelyxgood plan :)05:09
puttersonI performed "apt-get upgrade" over ssh and now the device will boot to the point where it plays the little jingle and will cycle after that05:09
puttersonI had alot of 3rd party repositories...05:10
timelyxi think you want to setup an mmc w/ an os and boot from it05:10
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timelyxfrom there w/ effort you can mount the internal jffs partition and fix things05:11
timelyxyou should be able to create the mmc w/o using the device05:11
timelyxand i think the flasher utility should be able to enable mmc booting even from your current stte05:11
puttersonfixing things is out of my ability; backing up things is seeming better for my skill level05:12
timelyxyou might want to customize the mmc image to default to usb-net and an ssh public key for root05:12
timelyxwe made a backup of one of mine05:12
puttersononly because of the troubleshooting05:12
timelyxbut we had extra tools05:12
puttersonthat's fine05:12
timelyxand we never really planned to do much w/ the backup05:12
timelyxmostly trying to poison another device :)05:13
timelyxraw read + raw write = raw clone05:13
timelyx(not really useful to you, since raw isn't useful for much of anything)05:14
puttersonjust when I need my mini to full size sd adapter...05:14
timelyxin theory you can build the jffs2 fs as a module and use it in a normal linux...05:14
timelyxiirc you may be able to but from usb mass storage05:15
timelyxif that's more practical :)05:15
puttersonat this point I need a card reader so I will get back to you when I have one.05:15
* timelyx will be asleep and unhelpful05:16
timelyxbest of luck05:16
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summatusmentisohnoes, I actually posted on itT05:19
summatusmentisit's sucking me05:19
timelyxyour soul has been sucked into a void05:19
summatusmentistimelyx: does Nokia do any internships relating to maemo?05:20
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timelyxnot that i understand them05:25
timelyxtalk to sp3000, he might know more05:25
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summatusmentistimelyx: oh, ok. Just curious05:26
puttersonok, I found a card reader. what now?05:29
summatusmentisspit, turn around three times, put a drop of blood in your spit, and pray to shiva05:30
johnxsummatusmentis, n810, right?05:30
summatusmentisjohnx: yeah05:30
johnxjust making sure it's not an n80005:30
summatusmentiswait... making sure what isn't?05:30
infobotjohnx meant: just making sure it's not an 77005:30
* johnx is still waking up05:31
summatusmentisI think you wanna talk to putterson05:31
puttersonI have the semi-bricked n81005:31
summatusmentislol, I'm just here for annoying attempts at comic relief05:31
johnxsummatusmentis, then you should have played along. :P05:31
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summatusmentishaha, touche05:32
johnxputterson, how big is your mini-sd card?05:32
summatusmentisalthought, that's completely useless to putterson :)05:32
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puttersonalso my n810 is in flash mode right now05:33
puttersonI am on Ubuntu 8.0405:33
puttersonthe card is formatted as fat3205:33
johnxwould you be comfortable backing up from the command line, with rsync?05:34
puttersonnever used rsync before but command line is fine05:34
puttersonI've only read about rsync05:34
johnxit's easy05:34
summatusmentispretty straightforward05:34
johnxjust like cp basically05:34
puttersonoh ok05:34
johnxrsync -av /some/old/folder/ /some/new/folder/05:34
johnxwhen it finishes they'll have the same contents05:35
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johnxunless someone wants provide you with a copy of os2008 to extract onto your sd card, the easiest course of action might be putting debian on the sd card...05:36
puttersonwell can't I download os200805:36
johnxyou could do that too I guess05:37
johnxyou'll need to explode the FIASCO image, then extract the rootfs onto your SD card...somehow05:37
puttersonsounds tricky05:37
Zmikohey guys im trying to decide between a table and a mini notebook/netbook, could you give some advice05:37
puttersonlet's go with debian05:37
summatusmentisshould just be a matter of using dd right?05:37
summatusmentisit'll give you a rootfs.jffs2 image05:38
summatusmentisZmiko: well, what do you eat off of now?05:38
johnxsummatusmentis, no05:38
summatusmentisjohnx: why?05:38
johnxjffs2 only works on the internal nand05:38
summatusmentisoh... you could mount the image, and then rsync it05:39
johnxZmiko, what would the primary use be?05:39
johnxsummatusmentis, that would do it05:39
Zmikosurfing, taking notes at school05:39
puttersonit's up to you johnx05:39
Zmikowatcing streaming video while mobile05:39
johnxputterson, honestly, I think debian might be easiest in this case05:39
johnxZmiko, mini notebook05:39
summatusmentis(says the debian guy)05:40
puttersonjohnx, how will the bootloader know to boot off the sd card?05:40
johnxputterson, we tell it with the flasher05:40
johnxthat's the part I'm not sure about05:40
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* johnx looks05:40
puttersonjohnx, will that wipe stuff out?05:40
johnxputterson, nope05:40
johnxit just sets a flag05:40
puttersonoh ok05:40
johnxanyways, start grabbing a copy of debian from here:
johnxwe'll figure out flasher as it downloads05:41
Zmikothats what i've been leaning towards05:41
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summatusmentisflasher looks like you need --set-root-device05:42
summatusmentisbut I'm not sure how the arg's work05:42
infobotsummatusmentis meant: but I'm not sure how the arg work05:42
summatusmentiss/arg's work/arg works/05:43
infobotsummatusmentis meant: but I'm not sure how the arg works05:43
puttersonwhat's the syntax for text replacement05:44
puttersonis it standardized?05:44
johnxpretty much, it's the same as sed or vi05:44
johnxs/heh/foo bar/05:45
infobotjohnx meant: foo bar05:45
johnxneed that last / :D05:45
summatusmentiswhere is qwerty12? I haven't seen him for days05:46
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summatusmentisoh.. that would explain why I can't ssh into it... Vmware wasn't on05:49
puttersonwhat software should I use to flash my n81005:53
johnxyou won't be flashing it, but you need flasher-3.005:53
johnxfrom here:
johnxputterson, sorry, but I have to go to work now. The flag you want is probably --set-root-device but I have no idea what the right syntax for using it is05:55
johnxI wish you luck05:55
puttersonhave a good day/night05:56
summatusmentisjohnx: I think i can help from here05:59
summatusmentisor, at least get putterson a bootable mini-sd card06:00
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timelyxanyone here familiar w/ midguard ?06:02
timelyxi'm seeing requests against my blog server for /midcom-static/net.nemein.f06:02
summatusmentisputterson: once you get debian downloaded, you're gonna wanna format your sd card to ext2 or ext3, and then untar the debian image onto your sd card06:04
puttersonI can format it but you're going to have to help me with untarring it06:05
summatusmentisok, can do06:05
summatusmentisputterson: you can actually format it while you're dowloading debian06:06
puttersonI am done downloading debian and formatting it06:06
puttersonactually I can't seem to mount it now06:08
summatusmentisyou've already formatted the card?06:08
summatusmentishow're you trying to mount it?06:09
puttersonjust through nautilus06:09
summatusmentisopen up a terminal06:09
summatusmentismount -t ext2 /dev/<whatever it is> /<mountpoint>06:09
puttersonI have sda sdb and sdc06:11
puttersonhow would I go about figuring out which one it is06:11
puttersonnvm figured it out06:12
summatusmentislol, ok06:12
summatusmentisgenerally i just try it till it works06:12
puttersonwell some I already have mouted06:13
puttersonI guess it wouldn't hurt thought right?06:13
summatusmentisright, it'll just tell you it's already mounted06:13
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summatusmentisso you've got it mounted?06:14
summatusmentiscd *whereever it's mounted*06:16
summatusmentisthe image is .tar.bz2 right?06:16
summatusmentissudo tar xvjf /path/to/image.tar.bz206:17
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summatusmentisthat *should* untar it to the current dir06:18
angelhey, is down?06:18
puttersonworks for me06:18
angelm trying to do a update.. it says failed to resolve06:19
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angelhmm.. i am trying to install python06:19
puttersonare you on your tablet right now?06:19
angeltrying to install it on scratchbox06:20
puttersoncan scratchbox use the networking of the host?06:20
summatusmentissounds like your dns is screwy06:20
puttersonI use opendns06:20
puttersonand it worked for me06:20
timelyxby default scratchbox tends to have bad dns06:20
angelhow do we check if scratchbox is using networking?06:21
timelyxcheck /etc/resolv.conf and /etc/nsswitch.conf06:21
timelyxand also similar files in /scratchbox/etc06:21
angelwat is it supposed to say?06:21
summatusmentisputterson: how's that working out?06:23
puttersonsummatusmentis, still extracting06:23
puttersonit's on /usr/...06:24
puttersonso it should be done soon if it goes by alpha06:24
summatusmentisI don't know what order it goes in06:24
puttersonit's done06:25
summatusmentisok, unmount the card06:26
summatusmentissudo umount /whatever/goes/here06:26
puttersonumount uses the mountpoint not the device right?06:27
summatusmentiswell, either way actually06:27
puttersonoh ok06:27
puttersonit's done06:27
summatusmentisput it in the n81006:28
summatusmentisput the n810 in flashing mode06:28
puttersonnice and warm hehe06:28
puttersonit's in flashing mode already06:29
timelyxangel: usually you want it to match your host06:29
summatusmentisoh, ok06:29
summatusmentisthen doÂ:06:29
puttersonwas that supposed to be an A with a caret over it?06:30
summatusmentis/path/to/flasher-3.0 --set-root-device mmc206:30
summatusmentisno, sorry, that's some weird char on my n810 keyboard06:30
puttersonyeah the keyboard is weird on the n81006:31
puttersonfinnish or something06:31
puttersonI forget06:31
summatusmentiswait, add a -R to the end of that flasher command06:31
summatusmentisI *think* mmc2 is the right device, we'll see in a bit06:32
puttersonUnsupported root device. Valid devices are:06:32
putterson  flash06:32
putterson  mmc06:32
putterson  usb06:32
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puttersonmmc I guess06:32
puttersonI wonder how usb works06:32
puttersonso still add the -R?06:32
summatusmentisyeah, that'll reboot the device06:33
puttersonoh ok06:33
puttersonshould it be plugged in and everything06:33
puttersondoes it matter?06:33
puttersoncause it is plugged in right now06:34
summatusmentisumm... I *think* it should be unplugged06:34
puttersonit's booting up06:34
summatusmentisgood  :-)06:35
summatusmentisfrom here I'm not sure what you're trying to do06:35
summatusmentisyou can plug it back in if you want now06:35
puttersonjust back up contacts06:35
puttersonI can find where they are stored06:35
puttersonif you know that would be quicker06:36
puttersonif you know where they are that is06:36
summatusmentisI don't, but someone else might06:36
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summatusmentistried to use my n810 for email, and it got really really angry whenever I tried to load a message06:37
puttersonthis is bad06:38
summatusmentiswhat's bad?06:38
puttersonthe touchscreen axes are switched06:38
summatusmentisah... let me see if I can figure out how to fix that06:39
puttersonI fixed it06:39
puttersonthere is a button on the top bar that does06:40
summatusmentisoh... probably some sort of screen rotation something06:41
puttersonyeah it was06:41
puttersonI somewhat prefer this to maemo06:41
puttersondebian with xfce06:41
summatusmentisthere are a couple of things that aren't up to speed yet06:42
summatusmentispowr management, and headphone stuff according to the wiki06:43
infobotsummatusmentis meant: s/power/power06:43
puttersonthey should check for that in the bot06:43
summatusmentisthey should06:44
summatusmentisI used to run debian in a chroot, so I could get debian apps inside of maemo06:44
summatusmentisit was convenient... I only needed a couple things though06:44
puttersonyou still needed to compile for arm though right?06:45
summatusmentisno, the debian port has a butt-load of repo's, so they've already got stuff compiled for arm06:45
summatusmentisit's literally debian06:46
puttersonoh that must have been good06:46
summatusmentisthat's what you're running now06:47
puttersonis it difficult to compile stuff for maemo?06:47
summatusmentisI'm not sure, never done it06:47
summatusmentiscan't be that hard, but I don't actually know06:47
timelyxit's a lot easier to package stuff that doesn't require building :)06:48
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puttersonhow can I tell if I am root from the console?06:50
summatusmentisthe prompt should have a # if you are06:51
summatusmentisotherwise, iirc it's a $06:51
puttersonI have an @06:51
summatusmentisthen I don't know :)06:51
timelyxtouch /this-should-not-exist06:51
timelyxrm /this-should-not-exist06:51
timelyxif touch works... you're root06:52
timelyx(or your system's so broken, that it doesn't matter)06:52
summatusmentisunless you're in your home dir...06:52
timelyxsummatusmentis: no.06:52
puttersonwell he is trying it in the root directory though06:52
summatusmentisoh /, right :)06:53
* timelyx is relatively careful :)06:53
summatusmentistimelyx: right, i got confused :)06:53
puttersonI can't type /...fn key doesn't work06:53
puttersonI think there is an osk here somewhere06:53
summatusmentisthere should be06:54
summatusmentisthe / just isn't mapped06:54
puttersonneither of those commands returned an error06:54
timelyxmkdir: cannot create directory `/this-file-should-not-exist': Permission denied06:54
summatusmentispresumably that means you're root06:55
mikedep3331in OS2008, file manager crashed while attempting to open a SMB share. Now it can no longer access them at all. Is there a  way to fix this without rebooting (I'm guessing a daemon needs to be restarted)06:58
timelyxthe daemon in question is gnomevfs06:58
timelyxwhich iirc isn't something you can easily whack06:58
mikedep3331ok, thx07:00
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puttersonhey summatusmentis, you know how there are the logical storage areas on the n810: internal, external and application07:06
summatusmentissort of07:07
summatusmentisI think applications get installed on the internal card, but yes07:07
puttersonI can only access internal and external, I can't access the application portion07:07
puttersonwell logical areas07:07
puttersonnot physical07:07
summatusmentisright, that's what I'm saying, i don't know that there's actually a difference07:07
angelhey, the resolve.conf and nsswitch.conf look fine07:08
angeli still dont get the problem07:08
puttersonsummatusmentis, well the directory structure goes straight to the home folder when I access the internal card07:08
summatusmentisyeah, that's only in the maemo file manager07:09
timelyxangel: did you check /scratchbox/etc/{hosts,nsswitch.conf} ?07:09
summatusmentisthe applications still get installed into /stuff/here07:09
angeltimelyx: yup07:09
puttersonso it looks like /media/int-sd/whatever documents and stuff07:09
summatusmentiswait, say that again?07:09
puttersonbut not the rest of the filesystem07:09
puttersonyeah, it's weird07:10
puttersonI can only access what would be on what is called the internal memory in os200807:10
summatusmentisoh... wait, that's right07:10
summatusmentisyou mounted the internal memory card, not the flash07:10
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summatusmentisprobably /dev/mmcblk0 ?07:11
puttersonit didn't automount07:11
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summatusmentiswhich didn't automount?07:11
angeltimelyx: it works fine outside scratchbox.. and the files look fine.. any ideas?07:12
* timelyx shrugs07:12
puttersonthe storage which isn't the external or internal07:12
timelyxget the process id for your shell07:12
puttersonwhere everything installs to07:12
timelyxand do strace -f -p {thatnumber}07:12
timelyxyou'll figure out which file(s) it's reading07:12
timelyxand how to fix it :)07:12
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summatusmentisputterson: the n810 has an internal sd card, which gets called "internal memory" in the file manager07:14
angeltimelyx: let me try that :)07:14
puttersonsummatusmentis, that got mounted07:14
summatusmentisthe OS, and all the applications, get installed into the flash, which is different than the internal sd card07:14
puttersonso there is an internal card and internal flash?07:14
summatusmentisthe flash has 256MB, and the internal card is ~2GB07:14
puttersonoh ok, I thought they were the same just divided07:15
timelyxthey're two unrelated items07:15
timelyxw/ very different perf characteristics among other things07:15
puttersonthe flash is faster right?07:15
puttersonI got denied trying to make /media/flash07:16
puttersonmkdir that is07:16
summatusmentisif you're trying to access flash, you're going to want to mount (iirc) /dev/mtdblock4. Someone correct me if I'm wrong07:16
timelyxputterson: there's probably no /media07:16
timelyxtry mkdir /tmp/flash07:16
timelyxor mkdir /mnt/flash07:16
puttersontimelyx, there is /media07:16
puttersonI'm booted in debian from the flash card07:17
puttersonexternal sd rather07:17
timelyxare you root? :)07:17
summatusmentisputterson: su -07:17
putterson"touch /test" worked07:17
timelyxsorry, hard to keep track of who is who07:18
puttersonwhat is the default password?07:18
summatusmentisfor root, 'rootme'07:18
summatusmentisw/out quotes07:18
timelyxthat's assuming maemo07:18
timelyxif this is debian, um... check the web page :)07:18
summatusmentisnope, according to debian faq07:18
puttersonthere we go07:18
timelyxsummatusmentis: really? wow07:18
puttersonrootme worked07:18
summatusmentistimelyx: I assume whoever puts the image together, sets it to be the same :)07:19
timelyxsummatusmentis: i don't want to go anywhere near itt07:19
summatusmentisit's the wiki for the debian install, chill out :)07:19
timelyxbut i trust you :) [and google agreed]07:20
summatusmentisis it johnx who does debian?07:20
angelhow do we get root access in scracthbox?07:21
puttersonso what is the device for the internal flash?07:21
summatusmentisiirc, mtdblock4, but I'm not sure on that07:22
puttersonI have 5 mtdblock's starting with 007:22
summatusmentisthis is where my n8x0 experience breaks down07:23
summatusmentisup until now, I was able to fake my way through it, knowing linux commands :)07:23
puttersonwell you have been a big help, thanks :)07:24
summatusmentistimelyx: what's the device for internal flash?07:24
angeli cant change the resolve.conf file unless i have root privilidges :|07:25
summatusmentislcuk: what sort of editing does liqbase do?07:25
summatusmentisangel: try su -07:25
dererkhi there07:26
dererkanyone did use N770 hard with lastest 2008HE ?07:26
angelsu, sudo , fakeroot dont give me write permissions07:27
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summatusmentisall of them should07:28
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angelnone of them do, su says command not found, sudo says must be setuid root, fakeroot doesnt give write permissions07:29
summatusmentisor, /bin/su07:30
angelwat abt it?07:30
summatusmentisif it's installed, that's where it'll be07:31
angelm sorry, m really new to this stuff07:31
AStormangel: try root07:31
AStormor gainroot07:31
AStormyou probably won't be in wheel group to use su07:31
angelok doesnt look like it is installed, Astorm: root or gainroot dont work07:31
timelyxiirc it's 4, but i'd rather leave people to google07:32
AStormthen install easyroot or gainroot package07:32
summatusmentisangel's in scratchbox07:32
timelyxit's not something i do myself07:32
timelyxwe have people who are paid to handle such things, i just bring devices and say "it's broken"07:32
timelyxthen i sit and play w/ another device until they look at it :)07:32
angelok do u think i messed up during installation?07:33
timelyxof scratchbox?07:35
timelyxno, i think scratchbox is special07:35
timelyxif you google'd you'd find a large number of people have trouble w/ networking07:36
angelya i know the problem, its just dumb that i dont have root access..07:36
summatusmentistimelyx: yeah well, some of us aren't insiders07:36
timelyxoh wait07:36
timelyxyou don't have su?07:36
timelyxlogin root07:36
timelyxoh err07:36
timelyxfakeroot ...07:36
angelfakeroot works07:36
angelused it before for something07:37
timelyxyou're in scratchbox, no need for real "root"07:37
angelbut it doesnt give me write privilidges for the file07:37
timelyxsummatusmentis: what i did is equivalent of bringing my device to "nokia care"07:37
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timelyxit's not really more local to me than the other two choices07:37
angelya i just need to change the resolve.conf file07:37
summatusmentisputterson: looks like the internal flash is /dev/mtdblock407:37
summatusmentistry that07:37
timelyxthere's a nokia store downtown, about 5mins further away from home than work07:37
timelyxangel: oh, the real file /scartchbox/etc/... you need real root07:38
summatusmentiswell... some of us don't live in civilization :)07:38
timelyxleave scratchbox07:38
timelyxsummatusmentis: fedex/ups :)07:38
timelyxor dhl07:38
timelyxbe happy you don't have to deal w/ poney express07:38
angeland just change the resolve.conf from outside?07:38
summatusmentistimelyx: takes too long :)07:38
timelyxyou mean you don't think ponies can fly?07:39
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puttersonsummatusmentis, someone has the exact same problem as me on itt07:40
summatusmentisputterson: oh really?07:40
angelworks :)07:40
puttersonsummatusmentis, yeah but they fixed it a more difficult way07:40
timelyxit's kinda like ponies...07:40
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angelis there anyone here who works on certificate manager?07:42
timelyx^ close enough i guess...07:42
timelyxangel: i spoke to someone who's going to replace it eventually07:42
timelyxhe expected to do it for soon07:42
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timelyxbut i won't promise it :)07:42
timelyxangel: why?07:43
angeltimelyx: replace it wit wat?07:43
* timelyx shrug07:43
angeltimelyx: i need to work on something which creates certificates, the back end is in C++ and i need to build the front end in python07:43
angeltimelyx: so if something concrete is coming up, looks like a better idea to integrate it in the entire application07:44
timelyxin that case, just build something around pkcs11 modules07:44
angelwats tat?07:44
timelyxa lot of reading07:45
angellooking it up07:45
timelyxgecko will probably use:
timelyxbut this is really very tentative07:46
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timelyxwe only started talking about it on friday :)07:46
timelyxearlier last week i had told someone i knew of no plans for pkcs11 :)07:46
timelyxbut... from a generic perspective07:47
timelyxthe right thing to do is just create .p12 files and let something else deal w/ it07:47
angelhmmm.. okk07:47
timelyxcertman and microb should be able to import that for you today07:47
timelyxbut it kinda depends on what you're really trying to do07:47
angeli was just going to create a simple interface to start off witj07:47
timelyxeither way, pki is relatively well documented07:47
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angelokk will read up abt it, i am still struggling with the sdk.. trying to get everything up and running before i get to the problem07:49
timelyxthe device ships w/ nss07:49
timelyxso if you need a way to generate certs, you could probably use it07:49
angeli am using nokia n810, i reflashed07:50
timelyxalternatively, the device also has openssl07:50
angeli reflashed it with the  new OS07:50
timelyxabout which i know absolutely nothing07:50
angelya i know07:50
angelbut i am doing it based on a paper.. so the back end which actually creates certificates is there.. i dont have to worry abt that07:50
angeljust the interface is wat m bothered abt07:50
angelso if the certificate manager is going to be there i cud try to intergrate it wit tat07:51
timelyxyou don't want to go there :)07:52
angelhehehe looks like it, tats y asked even before reading abt it07:52
timelyxcertificate manager in 2008 and older is just a pain07:52
timelyxand we intend to drop it asap07:52
angel*sigh* ill start from scratch i guess07:52
timelyxbut what's the real goal?07:53
timelyxonce you've generated a certificate, and possibly added it to the user's device07:53
timelyxwhy does the user benefit?07:53
angelto port this application onto something small.. like the phone07:53
angelits for authentication purposes07:53
timelyxbut why generate it on the device07:53
angelon this particular device or in general client side?07:54
timelyxwell... the web browser should be able to generate certificates today if you ask it to07:54
angelwell.. why rely on the web browser07:55
angelon the device ensures more security right?07:55
timelyxand less trust?07:55
angelplus this particular device since it was the smallest one we cud find with a nice display07:56
timelyxsorry, still not sure i understand the model07:56
angellet me see if i can explain it better07:57
timelyxif i wanted an ssl cert for use in some form of id, i'd use that07:57
timelyxi think i can even use it for openid07:57
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angelok wat do these certificates do?07:59
timelyxthey're certs. i can use them to identify myself to web servers07:59
angelwat m trying to do is create a kind of a legal form which u can fill in with details07:59
timelyxor to sign/decrypt mail07:59
angelok apart from identification it is used to know wat u have done07:59
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angelfor example u login in to amazon08:00
angeltat is the first part of authentication08:00
angelthen u buy a book, now to confirm u bought a book and not trusting amazon if they decline the order08:00
angelu generate a certificate and amazon matches it with certain rules08:01
angelso there is less trust and more proof08:01
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angelnot very clear, but even m still figuring it out )08:01
dererkanyone knows which is the approach of using udev?08:01
timelyxangel: that's kinda the point of this08:02
timelyxangel: try setting up an ssl cert w/ startssl08:02
timelyxit's fairly easy + painless08:02
timelyxalthough, i can't remember how well it worked in microb08:02
timelyxi think in the end we had to copy the db file from a normal gecko over because the certman apis were too broken to actually work08:03
angeltimelyx: m doing it for a prof, ill look into startssl.. but there is a certificate description language already there.. i have no idea how all this works yet08:03
angeltimelyx: ill hang out on the irc, so will see how it works and ur help will be nice to have :)08:03
summatusmentis'night all08:03
summatusmentisgood luck putterson08:04
timelyxanyway, if part of the task is making a cert... then yeah08:04
angelwell making the certificate is apparently done.. i need to do the interface08:04
angelport the application onto the tablet08:04
timelyxwell, how is the user going to really use it?08:04
timelyxusually users use certs from their web browser  or mail client08:05
angelwell, there shud be a server support to it too08:05
angelthere is a compiler description language and then there are rules by the server08:05
timelyxand the integration between browser and system is essentially broken08:05
angelwell, i am not really sure how this whole thing will fit in eventually. m still figuring it out08:06
timelyxwell, if you're building your own demo, i'd suggest building firefox3 :)08:06
angeland its good to have questions and comments like these :)08:06
timelyxanyway, at least play w/ startssl a bit08:06
angelyup will do08:06
timelyxthe basic system generates a cert which gets installed into the browser08:06
timelyxwhen you return to startssl, if you want to change your profile08:07
timelyxyou're using that cert08:07
dererktimelyx, did you try the mibrob port of FF3?08:07
timelyxwhich is basically the roud tripping08:07
angeloh ok08:07
timelyxdererk: we've internally moved to a newer pull, yes08:07
angeli am yet to look at the code which generates the certificate08:07
timelyxif you're sniffing our svn, you may have noticed08:07
angelso will look at startssl08:07
dererktimelyx, how fast is it compared with the older microb, in your opinion?08:07
angeli have a loooot of things to do.. just starting :)08:08
timelyxum... "slower"08:08
timelyxand it depends which08:08
timelyxsince the old microb is gtk2 minus cairo08:09
dererkI see08:09
timelyxwhereas the new microb actually has choices08:09
timelyxbut all of them are "slower"08:09
dererkI need the fastest browser I could find right now08:09
timelyxdefine "fastest"08:09
dererktimelyx, ok, I understand08:09
timelyxdo you need rendering speed, or js processing speed, or something else08:09
timelyxif you have needs, you'll probably be best taking your benchmarks and applying them08:10
dererkmy current microb (the one it comes with 2008HE) is _too_ slowly while getting pages and images08:10
timelyxwe're hoping as everyone else is hoping that eventually the platform will get faster08:10
dererkit takes about 4 minutes tu get a page08:10
dererkwith, 4 o 5 pics08:10
dererkit's killing me08:10
timelyxtry tweaking those numbers?08:11
dererka second08:11
timelyx(read about them before you go tweak crazy)08:11
dererkloading browser08:11
dererktimelyx, any documentation recomended about that?08:12
timelyxgoogle? (mozillazine or mdc)08:12
timelyxpersonally, i'd trust and more than mozillazine08:13
timelyxand mozillazine more than *tweak*08:13
timelyxbut i've stayed away from mz for 6-7years08:13
timelyxit's kinda the mozilla equivalent of itt08:13
dererkmax-connections int 2408:14
dererkseems fine, doesn't it?08:14
timelyxit's usually the per server number that's a problem08:15
dererkit says 408:16
timelyxmine is 8 on camino08:16
timelyxare you using a proxy?08:16
dererkthanks for the tip08:16
* dererk googling for tunning08:16
* timelyx fines dererk 1 - n08:17
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angelhey, wen i flashed my device i didnt do the R&D mode, can i still get root access?08:19
angelto install python u need root access on the phone, to get root access u need to do something wen u flash the device08:21
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timelyxangel: you hav a dozen choices08:25
timelyxi personally use capture-root08:25
timelyx(because i wrote it)08:25
angelhehe then ill use that08:27
timelyxyou need to create ~/.ssh/authorized_keys first08:28
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timelyxi usually do (from device):08:28
timelyx1. run xterm08:28
timelyx2. ssh-keygen -t rsa08:28
timelyxcat ~/.ssh/*.pub >> ~/.ssh/authorized_keys08:29
timelyxand then i install the deb08:29
angeloops, battery running out on the device08:29
timelyxthat's not good :)08:29
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angelssh not found :)08:31
timelyxapp manager, install openssh-client ?08:32
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angel doing it08:33
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RST38bishi qwwerty08:45
qwerty12hi RST38h08:46
timelyx01:15 timelyx could someone ask qwerty12 to load about:crashes in firefox3 ?08:48
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qwerty12timelyx, would do but I'm in windows atm08:54
RST38bisyou  have bootedd  windows  on the taabllet?  :)08:56
qwerty12Well, I could do slowly using Dosbox, but I'll say no :p08:56
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KhertanHi !10:31
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Italodancecan u give me ur Google Talk username ?11:16
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ZicDésolé erreur d'amsg multiserveur / Error of /amsg command on multiserver, sorry11:55
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tuukkahhave others noticed modest taking 100% since latest update?12:32
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tuukkah(100% cpu, that is)12:33
sp3000oh, crap, another tuukka12:35
sp3000my poor highlights12:35
* sp3000 updates12:36
tuukkahhow about tuu?kk?a[^h] ?-)12:36
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* timeless sighs13:09
timelesseds svn *sucks*13:09
timelessit's *huge*13:09
* timeless considers trying to blacklist it or something13:09
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timelessandrea: do you have an n810 handy?14:07
Garyis there a "better" irc client than xchat for the n810?  (I also have irssi in terminal, but it's kinda hard to use)14:13
Garysorry for not being able to define "better" <-- thats why I used the ""'s14:14
timelessi use ssh/screen/epic14:14
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tuukkahGary, it would be interesting to think about "better" - maybe xchat can be improved14:49
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blahdeblah-lapHi folks.  I'm wondering if anyone can help me with some repairs on my N800.  It dropped out of my pocket onto concrete last week, and the front cover is coming off.15:09
blahdeblah-lapPicture here:
blahdeblah-lapI'm in Australia, with no in-country support, which means it will be cost-prohibitive to get official repairs.15:10
Aveis there a clip loose somewhere maybe?15:10
Aveno idea how the 800 is constructed15:11
blahdeblah-lapMe neither15:11
AveI'd probably try some CA if all else fails15:11
blahdeblah-lapThe unit works perfectly, except the buttons keep sliding around everywhere and the cover keeps popping out.15:11
Aveor very thin double sided tape15:11
blahdeblah-lapAve: CA?15:11
Avecyanoacrylate glue15:11
Aveplastic clips break easily, even aluminum does15:11
AveI have yet to drop my 810, knock knock15:12
blahdeblah-lapI think the main thing i'm wondering is whether the front panel can just be prised off gently.  If so, i could bend it back into place.15:13
Avemethinks there exists a possibility that you'll break the rest of attaching clips as well :P15:13
Avebut without knowing the construction, who knows15:14
Avecan you obtain explosion pics from somewhere15:14 ? eh15:14
blahdeblah-lapThat's what i figured i could ask here ;-)15:14
Avehm you could try perusing gadgeteer or similar sites15:15
Aveusually they disassemble all new review toys15:15
Avelike you can find zillion instructions for gutting an ipod15:15
sp3000the googley word would be disassembly15:16
blahdeblah-lapLooks like someone else has had a similar experience:
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blahdeblah-lapYeah - just found that15:28
blahdeblah-lapThree small clips at the bottom under the stand, and my front panel is off.15:29
blahdeblah-lapTime to get this sucker straightened again!15:29
blahdeblah-lapThanks for the help folks15:31
Avehappy hacking15:32
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blahdeblah-lapAll fixed!  It's never going to be quite the same, but at least the button pad isn't sliding around everywhere.  :-)15:47
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Khertan__Hi !16:41
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Khertan__someone know how to set up the title of an hildon windows in python16:44
Khertan__when i do it there is still the script name added before16:45
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macoutemy n810 is kinda fucked up now, and i cant access it via ssh16:56
macoutelinux however seems to recognize it with usb cable ok, so is there a way to ssh via usb-cable?16:56
macouteusb recovery or smthng?16:57
Robot101macoute: no but you can reflash it with the cable16:57
macouteyeah, of course16:57
Robot101the only console it has is serial, and you need a special piece of hardware to mount it to do that16:57
macoutei think some of my apps didnt install perfectly and i thought that i could try dpkg --reconfigure first16:57
macoutebut lets reflash :)16:57
Robot101does it not boot at all?16:58
macouteyeah it does16:58
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macoutebut it doesnt load hildon at all16:58
Robot101so can you get the xterm on the screen?16:58
Robot101oh, nasty16:58
macouteyeah, kinda :)16:58
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Robot101if you can get an xterm, you can try ssh root@localhost16:58
macouteit kinda works though, if i pressed shutdown button it gave me the menu (howerver only a part of it showing on a screen) and i could use it there16:59
macoutenow its reflashed again16:59
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Atariicheap T8 screwdrivers suck :(17:18
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johnxpupnik_, any one in particular?17:19
pupnik_nah, just some demos17:20
johnxmmm...speaking of omap3 there's some pics of the naked pandora boards up on their site17:24
RST38hI am sure Karel would make some good use of those pics17:24
t_s_opandora, beagleboard, seems like arm based systems are on a roll these days ;)17:25
johnxLinux on small systems looks better and better :)17:25
* GAN800 still doesn't get the Tegra fetish.17:25
t_s_oand the small systems become more and more powerfull, all thats really needed is to hook up bigger screens :P17:26
johnxor good video goggles...17:27
t_s_oheh, maybe so17:28
johnxhey, it's the future already, right? where are my video goggles?17:28
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t_s_ostill, i dont see many arm based systems with (s)ata controllers...17:28
pupnik_we been waiting wayyy too long for good video goggles17:28
johnxsony showed something that looked promising the other day17:29
johnxa prototype of course...17:29
* johnx was thinking these:
pupnik_good price/performance on the myvu t_s_o17:31
t_s_ono idea pupnik_, its the only ones i can remember the webpage of :P17:31
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t_s_oah yes, here are some i keep misremembering the name of:
t_s_ointeresting thing here is the support for usb power ;)17:33
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pupnik_would be nice if USB could have become a generic charging/power interface17:36
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pupnik_perhaps a high-power line and a low-power line17:36
t_s_olike how firewire have 12V (on a good day)17:37
johnxit would be nice as long as USB ports could pump out a bit more current17:37
pupnik_yeah.. at 5v somethings just need too many mA17:37
johnxlike maybe twice as much?17:37
pupnik_i'd have liked that17:38
pupnik_maybe it's possible for USB 3.0?17:39
johnxtalk to intel17:40
johnxyeah, it would be really nice if it was nice and backwards compatible but hosts and devices could negotiate for higher current17:40
t_s_oheh, iirc apple got intel to design a special usb controll for the air, as it only have one usb port and it didnt deliver enough for their special air superdrive (that name so irks me)17:43
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pupnik_i'm just very tired of all these ac-dc adapters17:52
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darkblue_Bhello- I just ran x11vnc invoked via a shell rather than the GUI button. I get a *lot* of feedback, info, tip, options, etc18:07
darkblue_Bbut, when I connect wththe same client I had been using, it draws the screen, but then bails18:07
darkblue_Bunknown rectangle encoding or someting18:07
darkblue_BI guess that the GUI is starting with some params.. that I am not passsing when starting via CLI18:08
darkblue_BI wonder how I might sleuth that a little more...18:08
darkblue_Bx11vnc -h produces 100s of lines of options18:08
johnxlook in /usr/share/applications/hildon-desktop/ or similar18:08
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johnxand look for its .desktop file18:09
darkblue_Bok, looking18:09
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hrwspeaking about usb...18:10
hrwusb really lack 3.3V support18:10
RST38hhrw, it is 19:1018:10
RST38hyour local time can't be much off18:10
darkblue_Bjohnx: here is what i see.. no hildon-desktop18:10
infobotwell, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant.
johnxdarkblue_B, is there hildon-something?18:10
RST38hand you can make 3.3V out of 5V with a trivial circuit18:11
hrwRST38h: there is always morning somewhere18:11
johnxdarkblue_B, just hildon then18:11
RST38hat least for now...18:11
darkblue_Bjohnx: ok, looking18:11
hrwRST38h: imagine device which has 3.3V everything. now you need to bump 3.3V to 5V for usb and then usb device do 5V->3.3V inside18:11
hrwRST38h: there are lot of them18:12
hrwRST38h: this way you loose power twice18:12
t_s_oheh, $499 ethernet cable. its just so insane its funny :)18:12
RST38hhrw: well, too bad for you =)18:12
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hrwRST38h: nokia tablets are one of such devices18:12
RST38hMaybe you will feel better if I tell you that most current SoCs regenerate their power anyway?18:12
lorelei_t_s_o: I'm wondering how many people will fall for it :)18:12
hrwRST38h: today more and more devices are 1.5-1.8V even18:13
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RST38hThe reason is to have a stable voltage all the way until your battery gives out a ghost18:13
t_s_o <- i dont know, but it seems to be a high end brand...18:13
darkblue_Bjohnx: interesting
RST38hhrw: whatever input voltage is, a standard SoC will usually up-convert it anyway18:14
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darkblue_Bthat hildon dir.. those are the linkes to the apps, roughly18:14
johnxthose are the menu entries18:14
Aveanyone know what the exact OS 2008 version is in the wimax n810?18:14
hrwAve: wimax edition is not in sales yet18:15
RST38hhrw: So it can just as well up-convert it to 5V18:15
Avehrw: orly? I thought its been out since april..18:15
RST38hWhether you want to down-convert it in a USB device is completely up to you, the device designer18:15
johnxAve, the version consists of the year, week and build number, so no one can know (even Nokia) until the absolutely final build18:15
darkblue_Bjohnx: ah ha.. well, still no clue as to why the vnc failure, but this is interesting18:15
hrwRST38h: sure. it can even generate 380V - it is just a matter of how much power you wanna loose18:15
johnxAve, it's announced since april18:15
hrwAve: it is known that such device exists since then.18:16
Aveok thanks, I just misunderstood the blog I'm reading (tabletblog)18:16
RST38hhrw: correct18:16
hrwAve: when os2008 leaked it was known then there will be something after n81018:16
AveWhile standard on the Nokia N810 WiMAX Edition, current owners of Nokia N810 and N800 Internet Tablets with earlier operating systems will be able to upgrade their device to the revised operating system for free during the second quarter of 2008.18:16
RST38hhrw: I guess you are not losing a lot when converting from 3 to 5V, or they would not use this circuitry18:16
Aveor how can you misunderstand "Q2 2008"18:16
hrwAve: n800 was rx34, n810 was rx44 and os2008 filesystem has files for rx48 (which is wimx ver)18:17
johnxIIRC, Q2 isn't over yet18:17
RST38hhrw: It is also possible (have to check) that the real waste rate depends on the current, not on the voltage step18:17
NaviIt isn't18:17
hrwRST38h: they have to if they want to use usb host/device18:17
Aveisnt it18:17
RST38hhrw: No, you are missing my point18:17
RST38hhrw: My point is that they do it even when they don't have a USB host at all18:18
NaviThey can launch Diablo any time this month and still hit their vague launch timespan18:18
hrwRST38h: usb device lines are 5V level18:18
hrwNavi: who told that Diablo is os2008?18:18
darkblue_Byeah, when I start x11vnc on the GUI, it works.. weird18:18
RST38hhrw: but if you have a converter anyway, then you can use it to convert to 5V18:19
hrwNavi: they can release diablo as os2009 or any other name18:19
Navihrw, who told you that someone told me that Diablo is OS2008?18:19
Navihrw, they can release Diablo as OS2100 or any other name18:19
NaviStraw man is straw18:19
RST38hOS2100 sounds like a plan18:19
johnxIt was me! First I told myself that Diablo was OS2008, then I told Navi...18:19
hrw~blame johnx for all evil18:20
* infobot blames LoCusF and perhaps johnx for all evil and all the evil in the world18:20
* johnx bunts18:20
darkblue_Buh.. chill18:20
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GAN800hrw, Diablo is 4.1.18:22
* GAN800 eyerolls.18:22
NaviLike I had said before, straw man is straw.18:24
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johnxah, and everyone wants to know the number of the beast...18:26
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TPCI have a very strange problem with maemo that happens in mulitple unrelated apps18:58
TPCbuttons and text lables doesn't get their correct text18:58
johnxthey get a strange long string instead?18:58
pupnik_did you delete themes?18:58
TPCjohnx, yes18:59
TPCpupnik_, no18:59
johnxsounds like something is wrong with your locale18:59
johnxWhat language are you using?18:59
TPCthats what I thought, I was using swedish19:00
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TPCbut I also tried switchign to English (UK) and its the same problem there19:00
johnxdoes it also happen with built in apps? or only 3rd party?19:00
TPCit happens in the web browser to19:01
pupnik_there's a map between internal names and language-specific labels19:03
pupnik_and somehow that got messed up19:03
TPCI've had it ever since I upgraded to OS2008 months ago19:04
TPChaven't bothered doing anything about it since it doesn't happen in my ebook reader or in xterm, which are the apps I use 99% of the time19:04
TPCbut now I need to use skype to talk to someone in another country, and can't get past the sign up dialog since I don't know what is what19:05
pupnik_if it occurred with the upgrade, i would have to guess that there was a problem in flashing19:05
TPCI've reflashed when the second OS2008 came too19:05
pupnik_did you restore backed-up data after flashing?19:06
pupnik_the images themselves should be clean19:06
pupnik_quite a mystery19:06
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pupnik_any thoughts johnx ?19:07
johnxnah, this is out of my league19:07
johnxreally strange19:07
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johnxif it were me, I'd probably try reflashing one last time then sending it back to Nokia19:08
TPCwell, anyone mind guiding me trought the skype set up dialog, so I can just do the sign up?19:08
Atariican you not sign up on teh computer first19:08
TPCcan't install skype, I run linux with an architecture they don't support19:09
Atariicant you sign up through their webpage?19:09
qwerty12what does "echo $LANG" return?19:09
Anunakinwhat u arch?19:09
TPCqwerty12, sv_SE.UTF-819:10
TPCqwerty12, I changed it in .profile because characters got messed up when I sshd home to use IRC from it otherwise19:10
shaproj, svensk!19:10
TPCI forgot about that19:10
TPCI suppose that could be it19:10
qwerty12Hm, I'd try resetting it back to sv_SE19:10
RST38hall right folks, whoever wants a new version of Speccy for Maemo, get it from
GAN800If it's messed up after a clean flash then it's a hardware problem.19:12
pupnik_awesome RST38h19:12
GAN800Download a new image, flash it and tell us how it goes.19:12
TPCI edited .profile at the same time that I flashed19:12
TPCso it could be that19:13
qwerty12Take out that LANG line from the profile then :/19:13
GAN800Don't do anything after you flash it. Don't restore a backup. Don't screw with the settings.19:13
TPCqwerty12, thats what I'm trying now19:13
TPCyep, that did it19:15
TPCthanks for the help19:15
summatusmentisRST38h: what is Speccy?19:15
pupnik_check the link19:16
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RST38hsumma: follow the link?19:16
pupnik_maybe the first sentence after "what is speccy" should be "Speecy is a Sinclair ZX Spectrum computer emulator."19:17
RST38hpupnik: Ah, last homepage rehash left that statement in the second paragraph...19:18
RST38hok, a moment19:18
RST38hpupnik: done, check19:20
pupnik_i'm trying to not be hyperbolic in my appreciation of your work :)19:22
pupnik_but it is pretty incredible19:23
pupnik_i don't see how one person writes so much stuff19:24
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RST38hone person reuses =)19:29
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shackanRST38h, pupnik_: what do you think about the pandora?19:39
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RST38hshackan: it is a generic OMAP3-based device with some really ugly keyboard attached19:58
RST38hvix85: I am unregistered at freenode. Can't msg you.19:59
RST38hvix85: see though19:59
vix85RST38h: ok thnx. Im reading it.. but should I start learning ASM? I only know C/C++, C#, Java20:00
shackanRST38h: agree, but at least it's more powerful and cheaper than a n810, and it doesn't make EVERYBODY ask whether it's a phone or not20:00
shackansoftware is going to be a problem tough...20:00
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johnxshackan, it will depend on the community20:02
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RST38hvix85: you do not need assembler20:06
RST38hshackan: Pandora does not yet exist20:06
RST38hshackan: What makes you think it is cheaper or more powerful?20:06
johnxRST38h, they've finalized hardware and price20:07
johnxunless they go back on their word20:07
RST38hjohnx: They finalize it when you see it on sale in Micro Warehouse or Circuit City20:07
RST38hUntil that, it's vaporware20:07
shackanwe'll see20:07
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johnxRST38h, then I guess we must prefix all talk about the pandora as follows: "If they release what they said they will, then..."20:08
RST38hAlso, for the sake of your common sense I suggest you treat it as a generic OMAP-based pocketable device with no software base or developer base20:08
RST38hBecause this is what it is at the moment20:09
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RST38hjohnx: Basically, yes. If you feel like talking about Pandora of course.20:09
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konttori_hey, any good ideas on how to make a fast, potentially cached, gtk listview to handle thousands of items and yet be fast?20:10
konttori_Just asking in case anyone has stumbled on the issue20:10
johnxRST38h, when I think about software, I assume I'll have to do my own port of Debian from the ground up...and it still seems like fun :)20:10
RST38hjohnx: There is *some* chance that it will be successful and sell like hotcakes, but given previous history of such devices, this chance is very low20:10
konttori_i tested doing the sorting out of the model, then appending the model to the view, but it still takes seconds when the item count starts to grow over few hundred20:10
RST38hjohnx: Well, I hope they do not release this device solely for people who would like to port Debian to it20:10
johnxRST38h, I'm just saying: I'm not taking anything else for granted20:11
RST38hkonttori: there is no way. it is slow.20:11
RST38hAnd QT is also slow, in case you are having thoughts.20:11
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hrwdoes someone here runs windows xp?20:12
RST38hyes. what?20:13
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hrwRST38h:  I wonder about xp sp3 - install or not?20:13
konttori_RST38h: thanks for the comment. I've been looking for the easygrid now. It seems to offer cached replacement of the listview.20:13
konttori_but I cannot find it anywhere.20:13
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RST38hkonttori: in principle, you would only need a widget that does not process the whole list at once on creation20:15
RST38hDone it twice. Still ticking.20:15
derfThey've been written before.20:15
derfSee, e.g., Banshee.20:15
Italodancewho are asian here?20:15
konttori_RST38h: true: currently the model creation is about as fast as it should be20:16
konttori_the view creation is the thing that has been messed up.20:16
derfModeled after the Swing approach, which is that all you really need is a total number of rows, a uniform height for each row, and something to get the ith row.20:16
konttori_so, in theory, lazy creation of the items *might* do the trick20:16
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Italodancehi pupnik :D20:18
hrwRST38h: ok20:18
konttori_derf: yeah, banshee approach is the one I'm interested in20:19
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derfI mean, this has _long_ been known to be the correct way to do things.20:23
derfI'm actually fairly astounded both GTK+ and Qt got it wrong.20:23
RST38hkonttori: yep20:23
RST38hderf: they never thought of having 1000+ items20:23
derfRST38h: Then they are fools.20:23
konttori_I also cannot understand what they were smoking when they conjured the list views like that20:24
RST38hkonttori: if you feel adventurous, check just WHAT exactly GTK is scanning these items for20:24
johnxItalodance, banshee music player for linux20:24
n800mi have 20k items :/20:24
RST38hkonttori: if they are trying to compute item width, this may be disabled20:24
n800mtakes a couple minutes20:24
konttori_One guy at nokia made own cached listview that supported easily million rows20:24
konttori_he's on vacation though at the moment, so can't copy his progress.20:25
RST38hhehe folks you have never tried showing 20k items in html browser using layers...20:25
derfBrowsers are not for serious applications.20:25
RST38hkottori: I hope we will see it in diablo fm framework ;)20:25
Italodancejohnx hehe tnx20:25
konttori_banshee is supposed to support easily 100 000 songs20:25
derfThere's a reason everyone has "Showing items 1-10 <Prev Next>" navigation.20:26
konttori_RST38h: to see that guys work... Hmm... don't think so. It was an experiement20:26
derfAnd it's not because that's easier for the user.20:26
konttori_derf: sure. I just cannot understand why it's there.20:26
johnxderf, more ad impressions?20:26
konttori_RST38h: would be nice to get fm to really work quickly.20:27
konttori_as a disclaimer, I was project manager for handling fm in diablo. (among other things)20:28
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konttori_but, cannot comment on unreleased product20:28
Khertanfm ?20:29
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KhertanFileMaker ;)20:30
n800mis there a way to have different brightness settings for battery-run and power adaptor?20:30
KotCzarnylcuk hacked it to switch to 'performance' governor when plugged too20:31
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n800mdo you know which repo it's in?20:32
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derfDid anyone ever port it to OS 2008?20:32
derfBecause I sure didn't.20:32
KotCzarnyderf: apparently it works in os200820:32
derfHuh. Crazy.20:32
qwerty12derf, I recompiled for os200820:33
qwerty12works fine20:33
RST38hLet us all crucify konttori =)20:33
derfqwerty12: Awesome.20:33
derfGot a link to an install file?20:33
qwerty12Bye, all20:34
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puttersonwhat do I need to do to get android on my n810, I followed the steps on and it just reboots over and over20:34
RST38hkonttori: Last time I had that thought was when the Microsoft guy talking at our university said he was a project manager for Outlook Express =)20:34
RST38hputterson:You need 1. Ask yourself WHY.20:34
konttori_RST38h: yeah, go ahead: ;)20:35
konttori_I actually liked outlook express at some point20:35
konttori_(well, more than the outlook)20:35
puttersonRST38h, just because I got the oppertunity to do it and I wanted to see what it was like20:35
RST38hif you put it this way...20:35
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puttersonIt wont be permanent20:35
RST38halthough Outlook (Full or Express) is the first thing I delete form a PC when doing security audit20:36
johnxputterson, so after reflashing the kernel it just goes into a reboot loop?20:36
RST38hputterson: Well instructions are very specific20:36
RST38hWhat happens when you follow them?20:36
puttersoneverything flashes and copies over ok it just reboots continually20:37
n800mmissing libdbus-1-2 (>-61)20:37
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ljpputterson: probably need to disable the watchdog20:37
puttersonI don't have a working os2008 install right n ow though20:37
puttersonljp, how would I do that?20:38
ljpputterson: sudo ./flasher --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset20:39
ljpsomething like that20:40
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n800mi got it installed but doesn't seem to work, maybe it something to do with advanced backlight?20:44
n800macmonitor i mean20:44
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KotCzarnyas i said, he hacked it20:45
KotCzarnyprobably adding functionality20:45
fuelfiveI just flashed with the developer rootfs, and wifi does not work20:46
fuelfiveis there something additional I need to do here?20:46
fuelfivelike, even iwlist wlan0 scanning doesn't even do anything20:47
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Khertansomeone have tryed mcalendar here ?20:50
johnxI have, but I'm not sure I understand how to use it correctly...20:52
* RST38h wonders what happens when someone completes the statue20:53
Khertanjonhx > hum ... so gui isn t very good20:53
johnxmaybe I'm just confused. let's say I make a new event for tomorrow: Should it show up on the month view?20:54
johnxor is it only supposed to show up when I look at that day?20:54
johnxwhat *should* show up on the month view?20:54
Khertanit should be visible on  month view20:55
johnxah, ok, I see20:56
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johnxI was being dumb20:56
Khertanon month view all event of the month should be visible20:56
* Navi yawns20:56
johnxKhertan, only upcoming events on month view, right?20:56
johnxnot current or past events?20:56
Khertancurrent or past should be visible too20:57
johnxalso it tends to close on me randomly, pretty often20:57
NaviDoesn't do it for me20:57
johnxKhertan, currently happening events don't appear20:57
NaviI just have problems launching it some times20:57
johnxon month view20:57
RST38hAnybody knows what +49 country code stands for?20:57
RST38hWho would be calling me from Germany on Saturday night?20:58
RST38hOn a MOBILE phone!20:58
Khertanhum i ve maybe made an mistake20:58
RST38hNo way20:58
RST38hKhertan: twice!20:59
herz1does anyone know where on the device I can delete a stored password for my network? (as the password has changed in the mean time)20:59
NaviGerman telemarketers are pure evil20:59
RST38hThe next 3 digits are 69320:59
herz1069 is munich AFAIR20:59
Khertanpast event show in month view on my device20:59
RST38hNavi: The only good thing that happened in US during Bush Jr is the ban on 90% telemarketers20:59
johnxKhertan, but not today's events20:59
johnxand it just closed again, while just sitting there20:59
Navijohnx, are you on the latest version?21:00
herz1RST38h: tried to google the phone number?21:00
RST38hNavi: You can't imagine how happy people were when that happened21:00
johnxNavi, probably not21:00
RST38hherzl: Not yet, I am not THAT invasive =)21:00
NaviRST38h, I was pretty damned happy21:00
NaviRST38h, though, I miss fucking with telemarketers now21:00
Navi"Yes, I might be interested in changing my long distance service, but please hold"21:00
RST38hNavi: It got boring after a while21:00
derfherz1: It's pretty easy to find in gconf-editor.21:00
derfI don't remember the exact path.21:00
* Navi hooks his phone up to his PC and plays some easy listening21:01
derfStored in plain text, too, for added security.21:01
NaviThe longest someone held on was for 25 or so minutes21:01
Khertanstrange i can t reproduce it21:01
RST38hNavi: I did the "what are you wearing" thing twice21:01
johnxKhertan, let me update to the latest version21:01
Navijohnx, what version are you running?21:01
RST38hThen I did the "my dad can't come to the phone right now he is taking a shit big an dbrown one"21:01
Khertanthe last is 0.2.021:02
derfNavi: My roommate had a lot of fun with a Magic 8-Ball.21:02
RST38hThen I did a hi-tech thing recording my cat and playing it to telemarketers at 1/3 the speed21:02
RST38hTHEN it got boring.21:02
NaviI just hooked up my phone to my PC21:02
Khertannavi, i ve thought about a free time view21:03
Naviit takes no effort and I do other things while it plays21:03
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derfHe had to retire it after a telemarketer finally caught on, and then gathered all the other people at the phone bank around to listen to him feed her answers to all her questions from the magic 8-ball.21:03
NaviKhertan, yeah?21:03
Khertanbut i ven't found yet how to do a thing which can be read in a easy way21:03
RST38hGoogle hasn't got a phone book yet?21:03
NaviRST38h, it's too bad21:03
RST38hto look up the 693 city code, you know21:04
Navipeople need to put all of their numbers on a public phonebook21:04
Khertannavi > do u have idea ?21:04
RST38hNavi: noway21:04
Navijust like how people put every event of their lives on Google Calendar for everyone to see21:04
NaviKhertan, I'm guessing the same kind of list view21:04
Khertanwith free time ?21:05
NaviYeah, with free time21:05
Khertanby day ?21:05
RST38hNavi: those are not people, they are idiots21:05
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NaviRST38h, It's almost synonymous21:05
NaviKhertan, yeah, by day21:05
NaviThough, I'd much rather a graphical dealie Pimlico Dates styled :P21:06
Khertanso we need pref to be able to set start and end of working day21:07
RST38hNavi: No, just 90% synonymous21:07
Khertannavi > it s question of preference21:07
NaviI guess. Mobile-style is fine21:07
RST38hNavi: And the idea is to restrict your socializing to the remaining 10%21:08
Khertanon a small device i found view like pimlico date too small21:08
NaviRST38h, Pretty hard21:08
RST38hWell, each of us does his best...21:08
NaviKhertan, really? I thought it worked well.21:08
NaviBetter than the GPE style at least21:08
Khertani ve tryed to use it ... but i ve started mcalendar to replace it :)21:08
johnxit depends on how many things you schedule per day I guess21:08
NaviPalm does it a bit different, but that way works too21:08
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Khertangpe is not so bad on openmoko21:09
Khertanbut not the maemo port21:09
JaffaEv'ning, all21:09
NaviNeither is pimlico's stuff :P21:09
NaviHi Jaffa21:09
Khertanhi jaffa21:09
Khertanpalm is a good way i thought21:10
RST38h69 is Frankfurt21:10
NaviBig-ass area21:10
johnxKhertan, too many values to unpack21:10
RST38hNavi: The highest probability location is the airport though21:11
Khertanarg my 6630 is out of battery21:11
* RST38h tries to figure out who of his friends or relatives would fly through Frankfurt yesterday21:11
NaviRST38h, maybe someone needs you to bail you out :P21:11
Khertanconnection will drop shortly21:11
Navibail 'em out21:11
johnxKhertan, and it didn't pull down my scheduled event for Sunday the 15th21:12
NaviThe 6630s have a weird style21:12
RST38hNavi: Well, I have got no tanks or bombers at the moment21:12
NaviRST38h, Eh21:12
johnxbut it did pull down everything before that21:12
Naviit's not like they have a military to stop you21:12
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RST38hMilitary is so last century...21:13
RST38hThey have got an international police force for Keeping Order!21:13
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Khertanjohnx > can u say me what is date start and end ?21:14
Khertanand your current time21:14
johnxstarts and ends on the 15th,21:14
johnxmy current time is 3:10AM June, 16th21:14
johnxI'm on JST, so that's UTC+921:14
Khertanand starttime ?21:14
johnxstarttime/endtime 2:30PM21:15
johnxah, my bad21:15
johnxstart: 2:30PM21:15
johnxend: 8:30PM21:15
johnxother than that it seems fine21:15
Khertanhum can u set it to 2h3021:16
Khertanand 8h30am21:16
johnxis a new event ok?21:16
Navijohnx, you're up late O_o21:16
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johnxNavi, I work nights :P21:17
NaviOh yeah21:17
Khertani think of a problem with am/pm21:17
johnxNavi, heh...sometimes I feel like it21:17
johnxtoo damn bright today21:17
Khertan? same thing ?21:18
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johnxKhertan, wow...well that's interesting: {'status': 400, 'body': 'Invalid request URL.', reason': 'Bad Request'}21:18
NaviOh yeah21:18
NaviThat's fun21:18
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johnxif there's anything misspelled, that's my fault21:18
johnxand it still didn't sync anything from yesterday21:19
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NaviKhertan, #1 on my list of annoyances is the inability to full screen the app :P21:19
Khertannavi > for me it s a small thing to do21:20
NaviI know it is21:20
Navithat's why it's #121:20
Khertanmy priority is to fix sync problem21:20
Khertanok i do it tommorow21:20
NaviSync conks out randomly21:20
Khertanand i don t know why21:21
Khertani ve no problem21:21
NaviEven though it complains, my calendars still sync21:21
pupnikbtw, is it 00:00-23.59  or 00:01-24:00 ?21:21
Khertanand can t reproduce this 400 error21:21
pupnikstrange the things one forgets21:21
Khertanfirst one pupnik21:21
NaviI've yet to see a clock that does 00:01-24:0021:21
Khertanyes there is ... specially one coming from chinese21:22
derfIn Japan, TV listings are given up through 25 or 26 o'clock.21:22
johnxI see store signs that say open to 25:0021:22
NaviWeird :P21:22
puttersonhow can I kill the ui of os2008 so that android will get the screen?21:22
Khertanit s depends on country i think21:22
johnxputterson, not terribly easily21:22
Khertanfrench clock display 00:0021:23
derfI haven't seen that anywhere outside of East Asia.21:23
NaviI just stole penguinbait's scripts21:23
derfThe _clocks_ are still 00:00-23:59.21:23
puttersonjohnx, when I run android it shows up and dissapears if I click the screen cause maemo gets the focus21:23
puttersonhow would I fix that21:23
Khertanno no clock from chinese display 24:0021:23
johnxputterson, I don't know21:23
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Navistop hildon-desktop21:23
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derfjohnx: Well, learn something every day.21:24
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derfI've still not been to China. Need to find an excuse to get out there.21:24
johnxneither have I :)21:24
johnxI will next spring hopefully21:24
johnxI'd like to see Hong Kong as well21:24
derfYeah, it turns out there's actually quite a lot of China.21:25
puttersonNavi, how do I keep it from restarting21:25
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RST38hderf: Sure about it?21:25
derfRST38h: At least by all reports.21:25
johnxthere's really not that much of Japan. It makes train travel really reasonable though21:25
* RST38h have been to Taiwan but he is not particularly interested in going to the mainland21:26
derfI mean, there's a lot of, say, Russia, too. But I wouldn't want to visit most of it.21:26
RST38hderf: Most of it is forest anyway21:26
RST38hSo even if you visited it, it would all look the same21:26
derfI've flown over the eastern part at night. It was all solid black.21:26
derfLike, anywhere else, there would be lights, even if just of small towns.21:27
RST38hderf: So is the western part21:27
RST38hCities in here are very far in-between21:27
RST38hAnd 70% of population lives in medium-to-large cities21:28
johnxHas anyone else run into a problem applying for a garage page?21:28
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johnxit tells me: "ERROR: Could not create group: ERROR: value too long for type character varying(255)"21:28
johnxwhich is just *terribly* descriptive...21:29
Naviputterson, stop what from restarting?21:29
RST38hjohnx: group description was too long?21:29
KotCzarnyjohnx: prefer 'ERROR: error occured' ?21:29
derfBut yeah, speaking as someone used to flying over the eastern US, the contrast was pretty jarring.21:30
RST38hderf: Yep. Exactly.21:30
johnxRST38h, yeah, tracked down the field that was too long21:30
RST38hderf: Even Central US is pretty much illuminated21:30
johnx"group" was nowhere in the description for it21:30
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derfYeah, basically all the way to the Rockies.21:31
johnxanyways, 'night all21:31
puttersonNavi, hildon-desktop21:31
RST38hAlaska would probably be more similar to .RU at night, but I have never flown over it21:31
wndas if you hadn't seen this before.
Naviputterson, how are you stopping it?21:32
puttersonkillall over ssh21:32
RST38hHehe, I can see BAM! =)21:32
Naviputterson, stop it using the init script instead21:32
derfYou really want to fly north of the arctic circle during the day.21:32
derfThe scenery is _fantastic_.21:32
RST38hderf: Even if you do not fly it is fantastic21:33
derfYes, but then it is also very cold.21:33
RST38hOne of the biggest dangers when driving around Anchorage is too much rubbernecking =)21:33
JaffaGeneralAntilles: ping (added a lot more robustness to the council rules that I've been mulling over)21:33
NaviEven looking at photographs of it is fantastic :P21:33
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Navijohnx, do you get the problem where you make a new calendar entry on google calendar two days from today and keep it an all-day event21:38
Naviand when you sync it, it makes it an entry the day before?21:38
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herz1derf: thanks21:46
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RST38hyahooo, Gnumeric got updated!21:46
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lcukderf, konttori_ - if your data is obtained from a recordset then there is no need to actively double up on your workload and just self-draw the contents of each list item.  you save a whole initialization and just draw what you see.  when sorting just ask the recordset to do it for you :)22:27
lcukin a similar vein if you already have a linked list object model you can do the same.  it should scale up pretty far - its always been better doing this rather than creating a list item for each object in your list22:28
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konttori_lcuk: hi!22:30
lcukhi there :)22:30
konttori_sure, that's the proper way to do it, but it will then drop the framework for the objects that the listview contains. (like dragndrop)22:30
konttori_however, to be honest, it's the right way to do it22:30
derflcuk: The standard Swing approach is to have a template "renderer" widget which gets filled in with the contents of each row and is used to paint it.22:31
konttori_I have now made a poor mans solution that seems to perform OK ish.22:31
lcukcou could still do it but would take a bit more of a sidestep22:31
konttori_I'll settle for that for the day.22:31
derfThe idea that you would _ever_ create a GUI object for every list item is pure insanity.22:31
konttori_derf: I so agree22:31
lcukderf :) sounds pretty reasonable :)  and konttori_ at least for maemo, drag/drop isnt used that much22:32
konttori_sure. it's not.22:32
derfs/at least for maemo//22:32
lcukd&d is a nice feature to have - at least for custom sortable things22:32
derfThough, the file manager is pretty much the most common place dnd _is_ used.22:33
lcukis this to get over your 150album limit?22:33
derfEven if it shouldn't be.22:33
* lcuk has been experimenting with folder trees and self rendering each node - it scales upto the full file system :) (though memory goes wayyy up with each branch open)22:34
RST38hlcuk: fm file dialog appears to eat off 100+MB memory every time it is open22:40
RST38hDoes not actually use all of it, probably just does a memmap22:40
Tahitibob35RST38h, i asked the same question on maemo-dev ML :22:44
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RST38hTahiti: There should be a bug filed about it - check the bug database22:57
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konttori_lcuk: what 150 album limit?23:09
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lcukduring your speech at ltag you said ukmp has a rough limit of about 150 albums - you said for anything more move to itunes23:11
Tobawhy on earth do we have to flash to upgrade?23:11
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Tobaisn't in place upgrading like 20 year old technology?23:12
lcukbecause thats the way it is for now - this will be the last time though, new diablo release has incrimental updates23:12
TobaI just got everything set up!23:12
* Toba >:[23:12
lcukthen dont flash yet? whats new?23:12
lcukor do a backup and restore23:12
Tobawell, gps working for one.23:12
Tobaoh, true.23:12
lcukwhich release has it working?23:13
Tobadiablo, I think.23:13
lcukbut thats not been released yet - and it *may* be able to do the SSU update without even a final flash, though i dont know if thats been decided yet23:13
TobaSSU = ?23:14
lcukfor me, im going to enjoy flashing it and rebuilding everything23:14
Tobahow can I back up my current internal memory?23:14
lcukSeamless Software Update - update without flash23:14
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summatusmentisToba? like... wpi Toba ?23:18
Toba...whoa. hi jts.23:19
summatusmentishow goes it?23:19
Tobamy n810 has the worst gps in the history of mankind23:19
Tobabut other than that okay23:19
summatusmentiswell, yes. diablo will have a-gps23:19
Tobayeah, but it seems to me one of the main selling points should WORK as shipped23:19
Tobainstead of being horridly broken and ship it anyway which seems to be what they did23:20
summatusmentisagreed. technically it works, just badly23:20
Tobahalf an hour to fix is not working23:20
TobaI could find a gas station and ask at that point23:20
Tobait would be quicker23:20
TobaI'm glad they patched it, at least.23:20
TobaI'd try diablo right now if I knew how to do a disk image so I could get it back exactly as is23:21
summatusmentiswell, yeah, the a-gps stuff works well enough23:21
lcukthe gps locking issue is nowhere near as bad on mine now, im wondering if cpu busyness was a problem - ie if the cpu is busy it cant process the initial data?  but anyway it seems more stable nowadays and locks in a reasonable time23:21
Tobait seems this 'backup and restore' feature only takes some of the stuff.23:21
summatusmentisjust tar rootfs23:21
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Tobalcuk: with diablo?23:21
Tobahow'd you fix it then23:21
lcuki dunno, its just started behaving - but then again my battery has as well23:21
summatusmentisToba: or if you're not using the internal sd, image your rootfs to there, boot from the internal sd, and upgrade your flash to diablo23:22
lcukbut as well i run in performance cpu mode so everything is a bit more snappy23:22
TobaI am using it, but none of it matters. just some music.23:22
TobaI can sync that on again any time23:22
summatusmentisif I have a source directory structure, is there a way to copy it all over to my n810, then copy back only the files that have changed afterwards?23:23
Tobahuh? you can't get a consistent image on a running system..23:23
Tobasummatusmentis: rsync, I would think.23:23
Tobaisn't there some 'usb slave mode' for reading data from a desktop?23:23
summatusmentisDoes rsync do 'only changed files'? intriguing23:23
Tobayes, summatusmentis. it does23:23
lcuki would think a sync without an option to do only changed files would be a bit pointless23:24
Tobahow do I properly shut down? I saw it once and it seems to be well hidden23:24
TobaI want a consistent state when I image it23:24
summatusmentishit the power button, and say turn off23:24
summatusmentisor in the terminal, as root, poweroff23:24
lcukthere is no proper way to completely turn off, but there is a shutdown option on a menu by holding down power23:24
lcukok tap power not hold it down23:25
* lcuk only ever uses the slide for locking23:25
summatusmentisyou can hold it, and it'll shutdown23:25
* lcuk wishes lock would lower cpu and disconnect wireless though23:25
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Tobahold it on does what?23:25
TobaI just did that23:26
Tobahm, it appears to be doing slave mode maybe?23:26
lcukit shutsdown, but its not totally shutdown because there is a little program running to manage the charging23:26
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Tobanormal boot here we go23:27
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pupnikhmm skype client seems to not allow receiving/sending chat message or any other activity while a call is active23:37
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Tobaskype won't even install on mine23:45
Tobait complains that it's not made by nokia and is guaranteed to utterly destroy the universe, even though it was on the menu when I got it23:46
TobaI don't get it23:46
Tobawhy would they put it there if it won't install?23:46
Tobapart of why I wanted this was for SkypeOut23:46
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m-voToba, let's debug this a bit.  Sounds like a bug somewhere.  Skype should be installable, of course.23:47
Tobahold on23:48
m-voDo you get an error message or just a warning?23:48
m-vo(I am 'responsible23:49
m-vo... for the Application manager, that's why i am asking.)23:49
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Tobaapps -> communication -> skype23:49
Tobaasks if i want to install23:49
Tobabrings me here, downloads it, then asks if I should install 4.35 mb or something23:50
lcuktoba, most likely reason for failure is the installer expecting to find dependencies which have been listed as available from repos added since you got it23:50
Tobaand when I click ok, I get this23:50
Tobaso how do I fix this?23:50
lcukdisable all additional none standard repoes and i believe it should work23:50
m-voYou can get past this in the red-pill mode, but I23:50
Tobais there some way to do that without actually *removing* them all one by one?23:50
lcukyes, disable23:51
Tobawhere is that?23:51
m-vo(damn return key is too close to ')23:51
Tobaapplication catalog.. .list of repositories..23:51
m-vo... but I'd like to figure out why this happens.23:51
lcukedit each repo in the list and put a tick in "disabled"23:51
Tobaoh god23:51
Tobathis is going to take forever23:51
Tobam-vo: since you're responsible for it, may I suggest being able to select multiple repositories and enable/disable them with a context menu of some sort?23:52
lcuki keep only 3 standard repos available and try not to add new ones23:52
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TobaI assume this is Nokia {catalog,certified,System-update}23:53
m-volcuk is on the right path: you shall not use too many repositories.23:53
Gnutonhi there23:53
m-voToba, could you look into "Tools > Log"?23:54
* m-vo unfortunately doesn't remember how the Chinook AM behaves exactly in this situation...23:54
m-voToba, you know about red-pill mode?23:54
TobaI have heard the phrase23:55
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m-voWhen you activate it, you get the option to continue.23:56
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