IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2008-06-13

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macoutesounds like a fast way to develop :)00:01
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lcukit is actually, it can rebuild and run the one ot two modified files faster than the old way using vmware and copying binary and executing00:01
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lcukwinscp will automatically recopy the file after i save in komodo and the putty terminal is always open :)  i have it cushy00:02
lcukand because i know everything i am doing is direct on the device i know its going to work00:03
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macoutelcuk: want to hear the best way?00:06
lcukgo for it00:06
macoutejust install debian, no need for putty, winscp, emulators... :)00:07
macoutebut actually, your needs kinda scream for linux00:07
macouteif you use putty, winscp and develop for maemo (i bet you do more, but as a second os maybe?)00:07
lcukno they dont, but my processes work equally well whatever OS i am using :) i personally have a stable windows system.  why should i stress and rock the boat by changing?00:08
RST38hthanks mate, that was a really useful suggestion00:08
macoutebecause you need a program that needs a linux-system? :)00:08
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lcuknahhh i have a knack for finding a smooth way to do nice unexpected things00:09
lcukand anyway, eventual goal is to develop fulltime in maemo :)00:09
macoutein my opinion the unexpected things that happen in windows are not very nice usually :)00:10
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KotCzarnyxp is quite stable00:10
macouteyeah it is00:10
KotCzarnyif you don't install everything you can find00:10
summatusmentisoh, speaking of pygtkeditor, Khertan, did you fix the libmxl2juuiiii dependency issue?00:10
lcukwell ive only ever seen my windows install cd once, i dont have trouble with viruses or slow programs or drivers or BSODs or anything00:10
macoutebut i wasnt talkingh about stability but usability in this particular case00:10
glasswindows takes a pro to use though.. to know not to install crap and to know which "internet protection" shit is just shit00:11
KotCzarnythat depends on user habits00:11
lcukinfact, the one time i did see anything like that it was when i installed mysql00:11
* lcuk must be a pro00:11
glasslcuk: i know way too many people working in it that aren't..00:11
* lcuk stands on the street corners twirling his manbag00:11
lcukagreed glass00:11
macoutebut that is true. maintaining a fully functionally linux system is way easier than a fully functional windows system00:12
lcukevening kot :)00:12
KotCzarnyglass: maybe it's because those people don't know much about good habits in computing?00:12
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KotCzarnyhi lcuk00:12
glassmacoute: it's just that in this reality there are windows only tools that some of us need00:12
KotCzarnyyou can use linux00:12
KotCzarnyand still crash it frequently00:12
KotCzarnysee qwerty12 case00:12
glasshehe yeah00:12
macouteglass: i know. but again, in this particular case we were talking about tools that are linux-only :)00:13
macouteglass: and as living i maintain windows system00:13
RST38hyou can run coLinux on Windows btw00:13
lcukmacoute, i use the linux only tools well.  my 810 runs gcc nicely and ive got a usage profile which works and lets me be productive without having to get rid of everything i know00:13
macoutebut if i could choose, i would use open software only00:14
* lcuk loved hacking away at liqbase whilst sat at linuxtag00:14
RST38hGay man training for lay clergy 'bullied by sex obsessed female manager'!00:15
RST38h[and yes, it is obviously from a British newspaper =)]00:15
KotCzarnymacoute: see closed nit drivers?00:15
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KotCzarnyyou can't even charge your nit without those00:16
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summatusmentiswhat? isn't charging hardware?00:16
macouteKotCzarny: _if_ _i_ _could_ _choose_00:16
KotCzarnyit's controlled by software00:16
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Gadgetoid_no abiword 2008? or am i bad at looking00:17
summatusmentisKotCzarny: which software though?00:17
summatusmentisdoes that mean I can't pull the battery, and run from wall powre?00:18
KotCzarnysumma: bme00:18
macouteid say i could charge my nit without closed drivers00:18
KotCzarnysumma, yes, you can00:18
KotCzarnymacoute: or do you?00:18
KotCzarnyso why debian project use apps from maemo os?00:18
RST38hGadget: Still no00:19
macouteKotCzarny: ? it really doesnt00:19
macouteclosed apps?00:19
macouteshow me one closed app from debian project and i'll file a severe bug :)00:19
KotCzarnydebian on maemo00:20
KotCzarnyproject by johnx00:20
RST38h...had their Facebook accounts closed by the on-line community's administrators after they uploaded pictures of themselves cooking and eating a cat.00:21
RST38hKot: Beware!00:21
macouteah, yeah. havent tested it, but i believe that it is controlled by some closed software, but im sure that the battery would load with proper wattage+power without a software at all :)00:22
KotCzarnymacoute: that's not the case00:22
macoutebut yes, you are right that i cant use my NIT without closed software00:22
macouteof course it is00:22
macouteit is a goddamned battery00:22
KotCzarnybut charging circuitry is controlled by software00:23
KotCzarnyie. it's not automatic00:23
macouteyeah, by just plugging some wires it would load, but it would explode as well :)00:23
KotCzarnyso as i said, that's not the case00:24
macoutebut im sure i could easily code a loading app for NIT00:24
KotCzarnyloading app?00:24
macouteto control the loading process00:24
KotCzarnyif you rev-eng proper bits, yes00:24
macouteor how do you say it ;)00:24
macouteyeah, or with the specs00:25
macoutebut thats just theory00:25
macouteas nokia is not so eager to release its specs, i believe :)00:25
RST38hthis is not Nokia specs00:25
macouteisnt it?00:25
RST38hthey are TI specs. Nokia is using a standard cookbook OMAP2 design00:26
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zapAnybody knows how to deal with this in SDK: /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: No such file or directory00:26
KotCzarnyzap: ignore it?00:27
RST38hzap: move to SDK+00:27
zapI cannot, it stops my apt-get ...00:27
macoutebut back to my original point: if i could choose, i would use free software all the time00:27
zapRST38h: what is SDK+?00:27
KotCzarnyprobably scrsatchbox200:27
zapI have read it's incomplete?00:28
macoute_but_ i also admit that it is not possible nowadays, as hardware is mostyl closed and i do need some closed apps too00:28
RST38hWell, it may be incomplete but at least it works00:28
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zapI see they recommend running it on Debian etch00:30
RST38hzap: I am running it on Ubuntu 800:31
RST38hWorks like a charm00:31
zapI had today sex with maemo-sdk on Fedora 900:31
zapit kind of works, but I don't want to start it all over again00:31
lcuk"today sex"  is that getting frisky with your calendar?00:32
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RST38hObviously, choosing Fedora was the first wrong decision you made...00:33
zapoh please, no flame wars00:33
RST38hJust set up Ubuntu, as Nokia recommends, and put SDK+ on it00:33
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lcukdell recommends windows vista... does that mean we should use it?00:34
zapI'm okay with Redhat/Fedora for about 15 years00:34
RST38hNo flame war here, just the notion that Nokia guys apparently use Ubuntu00:34
KotCzarnyslackware ftw!00:34
RST38hlinux fanboys, all of you00:34
* zap wonders how OpenEmbedded guys managed to make their stuff build on any distro without any probs00:34
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lcukSCO Unix FTW!!!!!! *00:34
RST38hzap: by using secret Chinese medicine to fortify their penises before the installation00:35
KotCzarnyIn North America, 90% of adults consume caffeine daily00:35
zapnope, I guess they used their /dev/head00:35
RST38hI am sure you have been offered that medicine but deleted those emails...00:35
lcuk/dev/head is a symlink to lower down isnt it?00:35
RST38hKot: and the number is even higher for oxygen!00:36
KotCzarnywhat about nitrogen?00:36
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zap/dev/head is a block device00:36
KotCzarnyCaffeine is a plant alkaloid, found in many plant species, where it acts as a natural pesticide00:37
KotCzarnyso, pesticides are good for you!00:37
RST38hthe name only implies that they are bad for pests...00:38
lcukmost things are good for you in moderation, but too much of anything can kill you00:38
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KotCzarnyto omuch n8x0 ?00:38
RST38hbtw, unripe tomatoes also conain alkaloids00:38
lcukyer kot, if i dropped 10,000 on your head you wouldnt be happy for long00:38
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||cwtoo much water can kill you00:39
KotCzarnythey wouldn't stack00:39
RST38hlcuk: that's $4,000,00000:39
||cwand dihydrogen monoxide is very lethal00:39
RST38h||cw: And bad for environment too00:39
lcukthe water company round here are sending it down the same pipes. ive written a letter of complaint00:40
||cwonly when it falls from the sky00:40
RST38hAnd its products are highly explosve00:40
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* lcuk is resting his mind tonight00:52
KotCzarnyresting in peace?00:53
lcukno, im trying not to think but its hard work00:54
KotCzarnytake a shower or a walk00:54
lcukbath and movie actually :)00:55
KotCzarnyfine enough :)00:55
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timelyhey, how do i make sure i'm syndicated on planet :)01:17
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* timely wonders how to setup an avatar :)01:27
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timelyso um... how does one setup an avatar?01:30
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CobiWould there be a problem with me typing on the terminal: mv MyDocs /media/mmc2/ ; ln -s /media/mmc2/MyDocs ./MyDocs ?01:33
summatusmentisget rid of the ? and I don't see why it wouldn't work :)01:33
summatusmentisalthough, I'm no expert01:34
KotCzarnycobi: just boot from sd01:34
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timelyCobi: is mmc2 mounted?01:34
CobiThis is an N810 ... when I got it, it had a 256M root partition, and a 2GB partition mounted on /media/mmc2.01:35
summatusmentisbooting from SD is easy, if you care01:35
KotCzarnycobi: sd cards are cheap01:36
KotCzarnyboot from sd01:36
* shapr just got two 16gb sdhc cards.01:36
inztimely, I have an avatar, but no longer have any idea how did I put it there01:36
timelyinz: nice01:36
timelygoogle eventually found it01:37
timelysadly now i have to figure out where an avatar for me would be01:37
CobiWhat is the difference between the partition on / (/dev/mtdblock4) and the partition mounted on /media/mmc2 (the internal memory card, /dev/mmcblk0p1)?01:37
KotCzarnymmcblk is sd card01:37
KotCzarnymtd is internal flash (precious)01:38
timelyyou mean on an n810?01:38
Cobitimely: Yes.01:38
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inztimely, ah logical that you can only set the image via the "select information to publish" -page01:39
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CobiSo, what I am planning on doing will work and isn't stupid?01:40
timelyinz: ain't it?01:40
* timely stabs someone01:40
timelyCobi: no, it's stupid :)01:40
Cobitimely: How so?01:40
timelyuse usb to connect your n810 to a computer01:40
timelysuddenly you're hosed01:40
summatusmentisshapr: those don't come in mirco/minisd at all do they?01:41
timelyCobi: there are two behaviors:01:41
timely1. if no files on mmc2 / mmc1 are open, then plugging in via usb will unmount them and export them over usb01:41
timely2. otherwise, they won't be exported01:42
timelyso either you break the usb feature, or you break the device01:42
timelyneither of which are great ideas :)01:42
timelynow, you might choose never to use usb01:42
timelyor to live w/ 1 or 201:42
timelybut ...01:42
shaprsummatusmentis: Not that I could find.01:44
shaprBut that's okay by me, I can use them in my XO also.01:44
summatusmentisoooh! I want an XO01:44
shaprI have two...01:44
shaprBut I already have a buyer for my other XO.01:45
summatusmentisthey're supposed to be doing another give one get one thing at the end of this summer01:45
shaprYeh, they are.01:45
summatusmentisI'll probably do that, if I can swing it01:46
CobiOk, what about just moving maemo mapper's maps to /media/mmc2 and linking the folder back?01:46
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timelyinz: any idea about dimensions for an avatar?01:49
KotCzarnyif the code is proper it will resize it on the server01:49
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timelyproper code?01:50
KotCzarnyphp etc01:50
timelyi'm not familiar with that concept in this domain01:50
timelyare you sure you're in the right place?  :)01:51
KotCzarnythat's 'if'01:51
KotCzarnybut i believe author wasn't that stupid :)01:51
timelywhen it comes to images and resizing, i think it's safe to assume that the author can't be smart :)01:52
KotCzarnythen just use 1600x1200 one and teach him about his/her mistakes :)01:53
timelyok inz/ KotCzarny: can you recognize the image i used?01:53
timelymaemo profile? :)01:53
KotCzarny:)01:53 timeless01:54
KotCzarnyError 404: Page could not be found.01:55
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timelyyeah yeah :)01:55
KotCzarnyi recognize the image01:56
KotCzarnybut never knew the name of it01:56
timelyoh, nwn is never winter nights. yeah, that's close01:57
timelyi think it's the wrong realm... dl is the right one01:57
KotCzarnyas i said, never knew the name01:58
inztimely, no idea :/01:58
timelythe question is how many people would get the reference01:58
* KotCzarny never read/played dl01:59
inzI find it also very logical that the field descriptors and the data on the profile view page aren't synced anyhow02:01
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inztimely, when looking at your profile, I would guess your username is: "Yes"02:03
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inzAnd your (employee, contractor) -status is "Design, Web"02:03
timelyoh right02:03
inzAnd your ohloh -url is
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KotCzarnywho did that site?02:04
timelyfor me, the Username text overlaps Yes02:04
KotCzarnyfor me too02:04
timelyis there a bug filed?02:05
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inzNo idea02:06
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* timely can't find one02:08
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* timely reopens 220102:10
timelyerr 292902:10
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dick-richardsonandroid has looks functionally it an oss back-end?02:12
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timelyhey, how do i browse karma?02:15
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timelyKotCzarny /inz : odd, i think i remember filing a bug like that02:26
timelybut i can't find it, i'm filing02:26
timelybecause i don't have enough karma :)02:26
inzGrr, firefox asks thrice if I want to save my password when logging into maemo.org02:27
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timelyfirefox 2?02:27
timelydo you have something against fx3rc3?02:28
timelylike osx10.3.9?02:28
inzYeah, gf's machine which I do not plan to mess up02:28
inz(been helping her with her thesis)02:28
inzOn my laptop I happily run fx3 (whatever version that is in hardy)02:29
inzThe new way of asking whether to save the password is really nice02:29
inzNow you don't accidentally save _wrong_ credentials02:29
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timelyi asked the tablet browser to implement that before the feature was proposed for ff02:35
timelysadly... it probably won't make diablo+102:35
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KotCzarnybtw. firefox doesn't compile for maemo as is?02:36
summatusmentiswhy?!? I feel like that'd be incredibly slow02:36
timelyKotCzarny: is that a question?02:36
KotCzarnyi'm not asking how fast it will be but if it compiles02:36
timelyit should...02:37
KotCzarnytimely: yeah, i have never saw any report of (un)successful compilation of firefox02:37
timelythere's no integration, not that it matters much02:37
KotCzarnyfor maemo02:37
timelymostly if you're on an n800 that means no keyboard02:37
KotCzarnynot really02:37
timelyor bt... sure02:37
* KotCzarny nods02:37
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timelyanyway, fennec isn't really different from firefox02:37
summatusmentisversions more recent than 1.0.x would compile, but would segfault on Angstrom, don't know if that has any bearing on judging if it'll work on maemo02:38
timelyfennec is xulrunner hosted, and firefox can be xulrunner hosted02:38
KotCzarnylet's check debian armel repo02:38
summatusmentisfor Zaurii, and other machines, OE stuff02:38
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summatusmentisKotCzarny: one of the people on ITT is using ff3, in a debian chroot, iirc02:39
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timelyis there really enough space for  a chroot?02:39
summatusmentisif you put it on an SD card02:40
KotCzarnysd boot02:40
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timelybtw, the maemo planet feed thumbs/hearts in web2 are really spiffy02:43
timelyinz: just download a nightly equivalent and extract it on the desktop02:44
timelycreate a shortcut that does -P inz -no-remote02:44
timelythat way your stuff doesn't interfere w/ hers02:44
KotCzarnyhow do i disable 'downloads complete' popup in fx3?02:50
KotCzarnyi hate it02:50
KotCzarnyand option for it is missing from prefs02:51
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KotCzarnyi won't answer your non maemo related questions too02:54
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TheFoolSo I enabled usb host mode on my 770 hooked up a usb key according to all those posted directions about power what? how do I actually access the thing?02:56
timelyKotCzarny: what non maemo question? :)02:56
KotCzarnytimely: any :)02:56
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timelyhas anyone made a real web2 planet reader?02:59
timelyi want to quickly browse through and thumbs up/down dozens of items :)02:59
timelyerr, you can heart and thumb down the same article?03:03
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gentooerhow is maemo pronounced? is it ma-Emo or mImo?03:19
NaviI think it was may-moe03:20
KotCzarnyi pronounce it as 'memo'03:20
NaviNot sure03:20
TheFoolok so I mounted my usb drive on my 770 :) What file manager are people using nowadays to replace the default?03:20
TheFoolI need one the actually lets me see the system03:20
NaviI'm not using anything03:20
TheFoolKotCzarny: I might use it...but I wouldn't mind a GUI one03:21
KotCzarnydefine gui03:21
n800mgooeys are good03:21
TheFoolnon terminal one03:21
TheFoolncurses is nice but I was hoping for something I could show to a friend...03:22
KotCzarnythough i don't know if they support 77003:23
TheFoolwait will canola even be able to see my drive?03:23
TheFoolyea canola is fully supported on the 770, actually it works a bit better due to the gpu03:23
NaviCanola isn't a file manager03:23
KotCzarnythat depends on the task03:23
TheFoolno but it lets me browse my media files03:23
TheFooland that is enough for showing off everything else can be done via terminal03:24
KotCzarnyi think there was also some kind of desktop explorer03:24
KotCzarnywas rox ported?03:25
TheFooldidn think so, I saw a partial port ages ago03:26
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GeneralAntilles TheFool, Quim pronounces it "my-mo"03:35
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GeneralAntillesAmericans tend towards "may-mo"03:35
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GeneralAntillesThere's no official recommendation.03:36
NaviYay for an ambiguously pronounced name03:37
AtariiTheFool you there?03:37
GeneralAntilles Interesting03:38
NaviXorg instead of KDrive?03:39
GeneralAntillesAlso interesting
summatusmentisQuim's pronounciation(sp?) is more correct, assuming 'ae' is read as in latin03:41
TheFoolAtarii: Now I am03:42
TheFoolwhats up?03:42
GeneralAntilles lol?03:42
Atariiwhat did you use to connect your usb drive?03:43
Atariialso have you got canola2 to work on the 770?03:43
NaviCanola's supposed to work03:44
TheFoolused a y cable and a powered hub03:47
TheFooland yea works fine as per the instructions on the canola web site03:47
TheFoolit just takes some foolin' with the repos, but they tell you what to do03:47
TheFooljust never upgrade your enlightenment libraries...03:47
Atariii cant get canola to friggin work03:48
Atariieven following those instructions03:48
TheFoolAtarii: what is it doing exactly?03:49
TheFoolmind running it from terminal and reading out the errors?03:49
Atariiit installs03:49
Atariiyea canola -v outputs about the dbus or something03:49
Atariibut ive changed that version03:49
Atariione sec03:49
Atariidammit no battery03:50
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GeneralAntillesThis is just a little confusing:
TheFoolalright well just describe the behavior to me when started normally03:52
GeneralAntillesThis is just a little confusing:
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Atariirite is says,deprecationWarming: The dbus_bindings module is not public API and will go away soon03:53
Atariiother crap03:53
AtariiVAlueError: No plugin found with filter 'SystemProperties'03:54
Atariiany ideas?03:55
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Atariio wait04:00
Atariiwhich OS do you have TheFool?04:00
GeneralAntillesAre they seriously gonna go from maemo -> Maemo?04:01
GeneralAntillesI mean . . . switching after 3 years of telling people the right way to do it. :\04:01
KotCzarnypeople will do what they want04:02
KotCzarnyi'm not capsing for anyone!04:02
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rm_youI thought it *was* "Maemo"04:13
rm_you"maemo" is just people being lazy04:13
GeneralAntillesIt's maemo.04:13
* GeneralAntilles slaps rm_you with another clue.04:14
rm_youthat doesn't make sense... it's a proper noun04:14
rm_youproper nouns are capitalized04:14
GeneralAntillesIt's a trademark04:14
GeneralAntillesTrademarks are capitalized however they want to be.04:14
rm_youan incorrectly capitalized trademark, then04:14
rm_youEnglish -> proper nouns = capitalized04:15
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ds3maybe mr ee cummings might have a comment or two on that04:17
KotCzarnycummings is a funny name04:19
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shaprSo's kipling04:21
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AtariiTheFool you still there?04:31
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Mikhohas anyone tried wesnoth on n810?05:45
NaviGeneralAntilles has05:45
Mikhoand if has, does it lag seriously and reboot the machine every 5 minutes or so?05:46
GAN800Do you have virtual memory on?05:47
GAN800it runs fine here.05:47
Mikhodunno, i think it's pretty vanilla settings05:47
GAN800Make sure your internal partition isn't oversized and turn on vm. It's necessary to play Wesnoth.05:48
MikhoI tried to start the northern rebirth campaign, but was unable to complete the first turn05:48
Mikhook, I'll try05:48
rm_youwhats wesnoth?05:51
GAN800. . .05:52
GAN800Battle for Wesnoth?05:52
* GAN800 slaps rm_you with yet another clue.05:52
rm_youyeah what is it05:52
rm_yousometimes instead of slapping me, you could actually answer the question :P05:53
Mikhowesnoth is a way I can spend 20 minutes x2 every day in train comfortably05:53
GAN800turn based strategy game.05:53
Mikhoit's a fantasy strategy game resembling fantasy general a bit05:53
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Chazanyone here?05:56
Mikho249 nicks it seems05:56
summatusmentisI'm not here05:57
Chazah, hello05:57
Chazare there any other IRC channels about the n800?05:57
ChazI'm not a developer, but this is the only one I could find05:57
summatusmentisI'm not a dev either05:57
KotCzarnyit's a mix05:58
KotCzarnydev and user05:58
ChazI'm just trying to get some help with questions I have. I've been trying to contact thoughtfix for like a week now, but he's NEVER on skype05:58
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MikhoI have got more help from here than googling05:58
KotCzarnytried sending an email?05:58
KotCzarnykids these days05:59
Chazhaha, I have a whole sheet of questions written out05:59
Chazmaybe you guys can help me out?05:59
GAN800I he your personal support line or something? :/05:59
summatusmentispeople actaully use skype?05:59
ChazI use skype05:59
summatusmentishuh... I guess I figure I'm paying for a cellphone, I'll just use that06:00
KotCzarnysumma: what do you use for calling landlines in .eu?06:00
summatusmentisKotCzarny: I don't know anyone in .eu06:00
KotCzarnyi do06:00
Chazok... so first quesetion then...06:00
MikhoGAN800, you're right, the virtual memory wasn't on06:01
Navisummatusmentis, my skype minutes are cheaper than my cell minutes06:01
Naviplus skype-in calls are free06:01
summatusmentisNavi: my parents pay for my cell minutes :)06:01
GAN800Make sure you internal partition isn't oversized, Mikho06:01
summatusmentisskype in-calls make sense I suppose06:01
rm_youGeneralAntilles: wow, don't have SPACE for wesnoth :(06:01
NaviI wish I had grandcentral though06:01
Navithat would be perfect06:02
Chazwhat kind of alternate operating systems can you install. Is it only a few that have been reworked the right way to fit the n800, or could you install a random os to an SD card and boot from it06:02
MikhoGAN800, how do I do that? Why would it be oversized?06:02
KotCzarnyfactory bug06:02
rm_youChaz: there is a debian that is bootable06:02
GAN800It ships oversized from the factory.06:02
KotCzarnyread about it on itt06:03
KotCzarnyor just run partition magic via usb06:03
KotCzarny(backup first)06:03
GAN800internet tablet school has an article on it.06:03
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darkblue_Bhello - new to maemo.. first day actually.. kind of getting the hang of thigns06:03
darkblue_BI was wondering about the image viewer.. how do I invoke that via a cmd line?06:04
darkblue_Brm_you: hi06:04
ChazI heard something about the USB not being compatiible with all devices. id this true? Like if I wanted to plug in a usb keyboard by using an adapter could I do it? and if not normally, then would the debian OS be able to support the drivers06:04
GAN800They compiled it with the whitelist enabled.06:05
GAN800and there are power issues with otg06:05
darkblue_Boh /usr/local/bin/image-viewer I guess06:05
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Chaz@_@ this is confusing. Hey, if anyone is willing, can you talk with me 1 on 1 over AIM/Skype?06:06
darkblue_Bhmm not really.. got the default set of images.. in the hidden images dir06:07
GeneralAntillesChaz, generally speaking, as long as the device isn't an off-brand piece of junk and as long as it doesn't take 100mA it'll work fine.06:09
Chazok, that's good06:11
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pupnik_ron paul speaking right now06:11
GeneralAntillesHey, pupnik_.06:11
summatusmentiswhat's he going on about now?06:11
darkblue_Bhmmm no python06:11
summatusmentisChaz: generally, public discussion is happy :)06:11
Chazfor the n800 to have GPS functionality, do I have to buy nokia's gps kit, or can I use a receiver bought off of amazon?06:12
pupnik_~catch it GeneralAntilles06:12
* infobot lures it GeneralAntilles into the crab motel -- it GeneralAntilles checks in, but won't be checking out...06:12
* Chaz dies06:12
GeneralAntillesChaz, you can use a Bluetooth GPS just fine.06:12
pupnik_i stayed up all night for it06:13
Navipupnik_, :P06:13
summatusmentisoh ffs, he's still campaigning?06:13
NaviI thought he dropped06:13
Chazok, because I could get one from amazon for 40 bucks as compared to 20006:13
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summatusmentisyep, bluetooth is bluetooth is bluetooth, mostly06:14
Chazlol, ok06:14
pupnik_ron is kicking ass and chewing gum06:14
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summatusmentisgood, hopefully he'll pull enough votes from mccain06:14
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pupnik_grab the speech summatusmentis06:14
summatusmentispupnik_: I don't care enough, can't stand him06:15
summatusmentissorry :)06:15
GeneralAntillessummatusmentis, don't get fooled into thinking the Hillary or Obama are any different from McCain. ;)06:15
GeneralAntillessummatusmentis, not a fan of liberty and freedom, then?06:15
summatusmentisnot a fan of people who claim they're for liberty and freedom06:15
ChazI haven't found anything really recent, but is there currently any functioning video recording functionality on the n800 with OS2008?06:15
GeneralAntillessummatusmentis, ah, brainwashed.06:15
summatusmentisand not a fan of the 'everyone for themselves' mentality06:15
* darkblue_B frowns on one-liner politics06:15
GeneralAntillesThat's not the mentality.06:15
Mikhoright, it's oversized06:15
GeneralAntillesYou don't understand the philosophy.06:16
pupnik_no, the point is to allow society to take care of ourselves06:16
pupnik_we help each other06:16
pupnik_government doesn't help06:16
GeneralAntillesIt's "not use the government to steal from peter to pay paul"06:16
darkblue_Bis this the way this channel is?06:16
GeneralAntillesdarkblue_B, this channel is a lot of things.06:16
GeneralAntillesIt's a community.06:16
pupnik_i'm not being shy anymore06:16
GeneralAntillesWe discuss many different topics.06:16
summatusmentissometimes peter should be 'stolen' from, if paul is unable to take care of himself06:16
darkblue_Bthis is a huge topic06:17
Chazhow many of you are on internet tablets?06:17
GeneralAntillesAmoral use of force06:17
GeneralAntillesChaz, most.06:17
GeneralAntillesWait, on right now?06:17
darkblue_Bcan you really do justice to it in a few lines?06:17
Chazhehe, awesome06:17
GeneralAntillesGAN800 is.06:17
pupnik_i use the tablet ALL the TIME06:17
Chazyeah, I mean for this IRC06:17
Navipupnik_, <- So this isn't true?06:17
darkblue_BChaz: I'm not06:17
summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: amoral in what way? really? how is general beneficience amoral?06:17
ChazI haven't baught my tablet yet, but I can't wait O_O06:17
darkblue_BI'm looking for python.. and I'm not a ninja with repositories06:18
pupnik_Navi - watch the speech06:18
summatusmentisChaz: not using a tablet now06:18
GeneralAntillessummatusmentis, so you're going to argue that using force to steal from somebody is a net good?06:18
NaviI don't have the bandwidth to do so :/06:18
pupnik_I think he will go on through the convention06:18
pupnik_i'll report if he quits06:18
summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: taxation is completely different than using force06:18
GeneralAntillesNo it's not.06:18
* darkblue_B *groan*06:18
GeneralAntillesWhat backs up tax collection?06:18
GeneralAntillesMen with guns.06:18
GeneralAntillesWhat happens if you don't pay your taxes?06:18
summatusmentisonly in the most extreme sense06:18
darkblue_BNavi: +106:19
Chazis the n810 really worth $200 extra? I could get GPS (which is my main selling point for it over the n800) for a lot cheaper than that, and I don't care too much for the fixed camera or HW keyboard06:19
Navidarkblue_B, you have to apt-get the python packages06:19
GeneralAntillesChaz, I'd say no.06:19
rm_youChaz: no06:19
pupnik_Chaz, the main selling point is sleekness and keyboard06:19
GeneralAntillesIt really comes down to two things, the keyboard and the screen.06:19
summatusmentisChaz: depends, keyboard is nice to have06:19
rm_youand the SD slots06:19
Navior enable red pill to install from the app manager06:19
darkblue_BNavi: so what are my choices with the defualt repository? how can I tell whch pythons are there?06:19
GeneralAntillesSome people REALLY can't handle not having a hardware keyboard.06:19
ChazI was going to buy a BT keyboard06:19
rm_youand the SD slots06:19
Navidarkblue_B, python's in Extras06:19
rm_youand the SD slots06:19
GeneralAntillesand the N810's screen is transflective, so you can actually read it in sunlight.06:19
* summatusmentis is one of those people that GeneralAntilles is talking about06:19
rm_you*mostly* the SD slots06:20
Chazyeah, the 2 SD card slots has me hooked on the n80006:20
pupnik_i still love my 770 :)06:20
GeneralAntillesThe N800 has a maximum of 64GB of storage versus 18GB on the N810 with the currently available SD cards.06:20
Navipupnik_, is that link live streaming?06:20
summatusmentisthe sd slots are nice, touche06:20
Chazso the 32gb cards run fine on it?06:20
KotCzarnyn810 look more sleek though06:20
NaviChaz, probably06:21
GeneralAntillesChaz, 2048GB cards will run fine.06:21
darkblue_Bhas an 800 with no python yet06:21
Chazwell I wasn't sure about it's capacity for SDHD over plain SD06:21
KotCzarnydarkblue: install canola, it will suck python06:21
Navidarkblue_B, enable the extras repository and install canola from it06:21
darkblue_Benable the extras repository, how?06:22
KotCzarnyhi pupnik btw06:22
Chazoh, another thing06:22
Navigo to the menu Tools->Application Catalog06:22
Chazhas skype been set to work with video chats with PC's yet?06:22
Naviedit maemo Extras and uncheck the Disabled box06:22
Chazthat's one thing that's gonna bug me if not06:22
KotCzarnychaz: no06:22
GeneralAntillesChaz, Linux Skype doesn't have video chat yet. . . .06:22
Chazaww man06:23
GeneralAntillesUse Gizmo06:23
GeneralAntillesSkype sucks anyway.06:23
KotCzarnylinux skype HAS video chat06:23
darkblue_Bok done06:23
Chazwhat if you run remote desktop and open it from your computer?06:23
Chazor would that run a camera on your PC06:23
GeneralAntillesHelloooo slideshow!06:23
darkblue_Bok, you are saying canola, not python06:24
GeneralAntillesdarkblue_B, Application manager only shows packages in User/, Python is not in user. Just install something that depends on it.06:24
GeneralAntillesCanola is a good something.06:24
summatusmentiscanola is a media player, it'll install python06:25
darkblue_Bhmm ok.06:25
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Chazno one answered my earlier question, is it possible to have the n800 record video?06:25
darkblue_Binstalling canola206:25
KotCzarnyrecording yes, using with skype, no06:26
Chazok, so I could video blog?06:26
summatusmentisChaz: if the n800 cam is anything like the n810 cam, it's not worth it06:26
darkblue_BI, for one, was psyched to see flash play out of the box06:26
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Chazwell the camera seemed to look pretty good in all the times I've seen it used in videos06:27
KotCzarnyit's a webcam06:27
KotCzarnyexpect noise06:27
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KotCzarnylots of noise06:27
Chazisn't it like 2mp?06:27
KotCzarny352x288 is quite ok06:28
Chazoh, I must have been thinking of the advantage06:28
KotCzarnybut still noisy06:28
KotCzarnyeven with good lighting conditions it's noisy06:28
Chazcould you connect an external webcam that has better quality?06:28
darkblue_Baha python 2.5.2  thx06:28
KotCzarnyanything lower than sunlight and it's barely recognizable06:28
KotCzarnyi may be exaggerating though :)06:29
summatusmentisonly slightly06:29
ChazI love the style that the pop out camera adds. I just think it's the coolest thing ever06:29
summatusmentisthe noise is really terrible06:29
KotCzarnyi like n810 style06:30
KotCzarnythat way you can use that cam as a light meter06:30
Chazidk, there's just something about the style of the n800 that I love06:30
Chazit's such a cool little device06:30
summatusmentisis the n800 bigger than the n810? a picture I saw a while ago makes is seem larger06:31
GeneralAntillesA little bit.06:31
KotCzarnynot that much06:31
GeneralAntillesLighter, though.06:31
Chazyeah, it's slightly larger06:31
KotCzarnyn810 design makes it LOOK much smaller06:31
summatusmentishow? the keyboard?06:31
Chazn810 is thinner06:31
KotCzarnyrounded corners etc06:31
GeneralAntillesThe N800 is about 20g lighter.06:31
GeneralAntillesLess crap packed in there.06:31
Chazmore space for hardware hacking ;)06:32
KotCzarnyn800 has a fm tuner06:32
summatusmentismeh, n810 is solid feeling :)06:32
KotCzarnyn810 hasn't06:32
GeneralAntillesNo keyboard, no slider parts, no GPS, no transflective.06:32
summatusmentisyeah, that makes sense06:32
Chazwho here's used the vrc thing for remote desktop?06:33
summatusmentisvnc ?06:33
Chazyeah, sorry06:33
summatusmentisnot on the n810, I have used it in the past though06:33
darkblue_Bis canola written in Flash?06:33
KotCzarnyin python06:33
darkblue_Ball python somehow?06:33
Chazdoes it work from wherever you are if you have internet?06:34
NaviPython and EFL06:34
darkblue_Bhow did he specify the slider efffects and all?06:34
KotCzarnychaz: it's just a regular pc06:34
KotCzarnyonly mobile06:34
NaviEnlightenment Foundation Libraries06:34
summatusmentisdarkblue_B: Enlightenment Foundation Libraries06:34
NaviStuff that E17 uses06:34
KotCzarny(and with arm and not pentium)06:34
ChazI mean the remote desktop06:34
darkblue_Bhmmm new to me06:34
NaviOld stuff06:34
summatusmentisjust a set of libraries that make pretty-ness w/out needing hardware acceleration06:35
darkblue_Bah so06:35
ChazI mean does remote desktop/VNC work from wherever you are if you have an internet connection. And does the target computer have to be on?06:35
KotCzarnyyeah, that's a new one06:36
KotCzarnyturn off computer and work on it06:36
NaviChaz, it has to be on06:36
summatusmentistarget computer has to be on, and it needs to have an external ip06:36
KotCzarnymonitor can be turned off though06:36
Chazjust wondering, I'm a total noob at this stuff06:36
darkblue_BI set up VNC to the N800 frst thing today06:36
Chazhow does it work for you?06:37
darkblue_Bit works .. one menu doesnt seem to click06:37
darkblue_Bdont know why06:37
darkblue_Bbut otherwise its the way to go06:37
darkblue_Bi had to find an installer for os200806:37
Chazis it possible to get a BT mouse to work on it? I hear some ppl say no, but I remember reading about a hack to show the pointer06:38
darkblue_Bdont use general Ubuntu stuff  *cough KotCzarny*06:38
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KotCzarnydarkblue: i use slackware06:38
darkblue_Bthx to johnx06:38
Chazso in general, how would you all say that the nokia n770/8x0 has affected/improved your life06:41
GeneralAntillesIn more ways than I can list06:42
Navi770, N8X006:42
GeneralAntillesIt's pretty much changed the way I use the internet06:42
pupnik_WOO WOO WOo!06:42
NaviYes, it's improved my life06:42
Navipupnik_, CHANGE CHANGE CHANGE06:42
* Navi shrugs06:42
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pupnik_yep fredom :(06:43
Chazone thing I can think of at least that I would really enjoy is getting GIMP to run and having a portable graphic arts platform06:43
NaviGIMP requires a lot of resources06:43
KotCzarnybut runs06:43
Chazis the touch screen multi level pressure sensitive?06:43
darkblue_Bportable devices outght to have their own interface06:43
Chazhow sorta?06:44
darkblue_Bit doesnt make sense to jam something that depends on screen real estate06:44
NaviThe pressure sensitivity is really sensitive06:44
darkblue_B.. onto a tiny device06:44
NaviChaz, there's mypaint and mtpaint if you want some drawing06:44
darkblue_Bcanola is pretty neat06:45
Chazyeah, I was going to ask about alternate paint programs06:45
Chazhow are they as far as tools go?06:45
darkblue_BI wrote a paint program .. 20 years ago06:45
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KotCzarnyport it06:45
NaviChaz, mtpaint is faster and more responsive, generally06:45
darkblue_Bhad fun.. paried like a rock star.. didnt sell it.. now I'm broke again06:46
NaviChaz, but mypaint has alpha brushes06:46
ChazI'll try both06:46
Chazand GIMP runs on the debian OS right?06:46
NaviRuns, but not great06:46
ChazI'll try it out at least06:47
Chazsee for mtself06:47
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Chazso with the debian OS, does it display a desktop like a typical OS?06:47
NaviIt's just Debian06:47
summatusmentisChaz: I would recommend a chroot for debian, instead of installing directly06:47
KotCzarnyarmel debian06:48
Chazme  = noob06:48
Chaz(explain please @_@)06:48
KotCzarnydifferent cpu06:48
Chaznot the armel thing, the thing about chroot06:49
Chazthanks =)06:50
Chazrandom thought, but can you get viruses on the n800?06:51
summatusmentisnot likely06:52
KotCzarnyyou can do all stupid things06:52
summatusmentisit's linux based06:52
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darkblue_BI dont know much about t.. but I think they generally woould have to get provs somehow06:52
ChazI would think that the linux sustem would naturally make it really hard to get them06:52
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darkblue_Bso.. if something logs in as user, then yes06:52
darkblue_Bor root say06:52
KotCzarnythere is nothing 'natural'06:52
KotCzarnyif your system is badly configured it doesn't matter what is the maker or type06:53
summatusmentiswell, it won't give you viruses... but there are other security issues06:53
KotCzarnyeverything is hackable06:53
darkblue_Bso the trick is, if code can escalate privs somehow, by executing priv code for example, then they are in06:53
ChazI think I'm going to poke around with OS2008 before trying to boot debian or anything06:53
darkblue_Bbut the short answer is, is very unlikely.. do your updates06:53
KotCzarnyand reflash is ~2-4 minutes06:54
darkblue_Bnothing from the outside can get through on a system with basic security intact.. roughly06:54
Chazwhat exactly is reflashing?06:54
darkblue_Bupdating the OS06:54
KotCzarnythink of it as reinstalling os06:54
darkblue_BI did it today.. my first hour of using thie thing06:54
darkblue_Byes, reinstall06:55
Chazso it's like reinstalling os2008?06:55
darkblue_Bit actually is *replacing the whole os*06:55
darkblue_Band the internal card.. I think06:55
summatusmentisChaz: yes, in some cases, updating06:55
KotCzarnyinternal card is untouched06:55
Chazdoes it erase your programs?06:55
KotCzarnyeverything on internal flash06:56
Chazaww, that sucks06:56
KotCzarnyif you broke something06:56
KotCzarnyto the point you need reflash06:56
Chazidk, it would be a pain to have to reinstall all of your programs06:56
KotCzarnythen it's good06:56
KotCzarnyotherwise you don't need to reflash, right?06:56
KotCzarnythere is a backup function06:56
Chazyou would have to redo all the settings and stuff06:57
summatusmentisif you're updating...06:57
Chazwell you just said it erased them @_@06:57
KotCzarnyand everything will change will maemo 4.106:57
KotCzarny(current is 4.0.1)06:57
Chazso for the total noobiest question of them all, what exactly is maemo?06:57
infobotmaemo is probably a development platform to create applications for Nokia 770 Internet Tablet and other maemo compliant handheld devices in the future.
Chazso it's like a programing language?06:58
KotCzarnythink of it as a libs and apps06:58
KotCzarny(there is more, but we are lying to make it short)06:59
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Chazso to backtrack a little bit, does the n800 have mapping software allready on it that is compatable with gps, but no gps receiver?07:00
KotCzarnyyou can use bt one07:01
*** Chaz is now known as Freekyfrogy07:01
Freekyfrogyyeah, but does the n800 allready have the right sooftware on it07:02
NaviThe mapping software preinstalled needs maps though07:02
KotCzarnyos wise n800 and n810 have the same packages07:02
Navicosts money, I believe07:02
Freekyfrogyeverything costs money07:03
NaviYou can always install roadmap or maemo mapper07:03
KotCzarnyuse maemo-mapper07:03
KotCzarnyit's free07:03
Freekyfrogysupports GPS?07:03
Freekyfrogydoes it have voices or no07:03
KotCzarnyi believe yes07:03
Freekyfrogyoh, awesome07:03
KotCzarnyi may be wrong thoughh07:03
KotCzarnyas i don't have gps07:03
NaviYou need to download the voice files, but you can use it07:04
Freekyfrogyyeah, right now I have about $400 to spend total07:04
KotCzarnyn800 is ~200$07:04
Freekyfrogyfrom best buy it's $30007:04
KotCzarnybt kb 25$, 8gb sd card ~30$, gps 40-100$07:04
Freekyfrogybut I have seen as low as $15007:04
Freekyfrogybt kb is like 50 - 10007:05
Freekyfrogyas far as I've seen07:05
KotCzarnyi got igo ultra slim for 25$07:05
Freekyfrogywhere from?07:05
Freekyfrogythat might be why...07:05
KotCzarnyand my n800 cost 150$07:05
KotCzarnycl too07:05
FreekyfrogyI didn't see any n800s on cl07:06
KotCzarnyi'm a bad consumer :)07:06
Freekyfrogythere were 2 770s though07:06
KotCzarnyjust lurk for it07:06
FreekyfrogyI found some deals on ebay07:06
NaviEh, ebay07:06
KotCzarnycl is better07:06
darkblue_Bwait, you say you can buy a gos for the 800?07:06
KotCzarnyyou actually can test device before you buy07:06
Freekyfrogyyou can?07:06
KotCzarnydarkblue: bluetooth07:06
darkblue_Bah yes.. external07:07
darkblue_BI am fnding the map apps are expecting a gps interface, and I dont see a way to just say "I am here"07:07
KotCzarnyhas the added bonus you can fix gps to the car/bike07:07
Freekyfrogydarkblue: you can get external bt gps receivers for the n80007:07
darkblue_BFreekyfrogy: any gps with bluetooth will do though yes?07:08
Freekyfrogyyeah, I'm going off to college this year (out of state) so the gps functionality should help me out a LOT07:08
darkblue_BI do geo data.. thst why 'm heree07:08
Freekyfrogyyou need a gps receiver, not the full blown gps system07:09
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Freekyfrogygeo data?07:09
Freekyfrogyplease explain07:09
darkblue_Bspatiall enabled data.. stuff with a place07:09
darkblue_Bso.. my name.. my name + a place07:10
darkblue_Bgeo data07:10
darkblue_Bnot GIS.. just geo data07:10
Freekyfrogystill not really making much sense... but ok07:10
darkblue_Bcomputers do a few fundmental things07:11
darkblue_Bright now, its kinda new to put a place tag, or place fields, or place names, with stuff07:11
darkblue_Bbut, its coming like a freight train07:11
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darkblue_BGIS is an old field.. thats different, though related07:12
Freekyfrogyso like, tagging places on gps systems?07:12
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darkblue_Bsure, or tagging it with "Portland"07:12
darkblue_Bthats geo enough for me07:12
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darkblue_Bbut I am a neo geo :-)07:12
Freekyfrogyrandom thought... could you use the gps maps to mark unsecured hotspots?07:13
darkblue_Bthe my frog.. is pretty common07:13
FreekyfrogyI thought you could, just making sure07:14
darkblue_Botherwise known as "sharing" ;-)07:14
Freekyfrogycan you access a "list" of other peoples tagged hotspots? like is there a collective of unsecured hotspot dots accesable through mapping software07:15
Freekyfrogysorry to be asking so many questions to you guys07:16
FreekyfrogyI just have a lot, as I've spent the last week studying and getting answers... and questions07:17
Freekyfrogywhat's the most entertaining or usefull thing you guys have been able to do with your tablets?07:19
KotCzarnyi can login to my laptop and kill offending process07:20
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KotCzarnyalso i can play mahjongg in the toilet07:20
KotCzarnyand carry a bus map with me when i go into the unknown07:21
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FreekyfrogyI think the maps will help me out tremendously07:21
KotCzarnyget a big sd card07:21
KotCzarny8gb minimum07:21
FreekyfrogyI allready have a 2gb, but I was thinking of buying either an 8 or 1607:22
FreekyfrogyI plan on using the device as a portable media player07:22
KotCzarnythat would work too07:22
Freekyfrogyget myself a nice set of bt headphones07:22
Freekyfrogyoh yeah07:22
KotCzarnybt sound is a work in progress i think07:22
Freekyfrogyyou mean for the tablets?07:23
KotCzarnyi have a thoughts that there were problems with it07:23
KotCzarnyi may be wrong too :)07:23
Freekyfrogyoh well, normal headphones are fine too07:23
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FreekyfrogyI think it'd be awesome if you could get a little bt controller that had the main media controlls on it so you wouldn't have to pull out and unlock the n800, you could just push one little button07:24
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KotCzarnyif you can program a little i think it's possible07:25
KotCzarnyor you can try google :)07:25
FreekyfrogyI can't program07:26
FreekyfrogyI would like to learn though, haha07:26
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summatusmentisnow's as good a time as any07:27
summatusmentis'night all07:27
KotCzarnynite nite07:27
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FreekyfrogyKot, do you blog at all with your n800?07:29
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KotCzarnyi don't blog07:29
FreekyfrogyI don't, but I've thought about it07:29
KotCzarnyit has a web browser though07:29
Freekyfrogydo you think nokia could have envisioned just how much these devices have expanded and become more functional?07:30
kulve"Power VR mbx support"07:31
KotCzarnykulve, yeah, i have seen it07:31
GeneralAntilleskulve, the future is brighter, though.07:31
GeneralAntillesMore info coming in the fall, according to Quim.07:32
kulvewell, we'll see it then..07:32
GeneralAntillesLinuxTag rumblings are that they've been looking at it, but the drivers suck.07:33
kulveit shouldn't be expensive then.. They could let the community to decide how much it suck..07:34
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GeneralAntilleskulve, yeah, it'd be nice to just release it with a disclaimer (this really sucks, no really it _REALLY_ sucks, it's totally unsupported, don't blame us).07:34
Freekyfrogywhat's going on?07:35
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Freekyfrogyehh, I think I'm wanting to go to sleep now07:36
kulveFreekyfrogy: open the url I pasted and the read the title and the last comment07:36
Freekyfrogyoh, ok. hold on a second07:37
GeneralAntillesI'm over OMAP2 anyway07:37
GeneralAntillesI'm ready for the future.07:37
kulveFreekyfrogy: s,https,http, so you don't need to log in07:37
kulveGeneralAntilles: omap3 is really nice but omap2 is still enough for many things..07:38
GeneralAntillesNot enough for me.07:38
Freekyfrogyhey man, I'm going to bed.07:38
Freekyfrogythank you all for your help07:38
GeneralAntillesand we wont ever be past the LCD controller issue without new hardware.07:38
kulvethat's true07:38
KotCzarnyopen up specs and let hackers write the drivers07:39
KotCzarnyand squeeze everything it's capable of07:39
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rm_youTI releases a lot of that stuff07:39
GeneralAntillesOMAP3 is faster, cooler and more open.07:39
KotCzarnyotherwise it's just mswindowish07:39
kulveGeneralAntilles: I've played 1280x720 video with omap3, so the bandwidth shouldn't be a problem there07:39
GeneralAntilleskulve, I hate you. :P07:40
rm_yoummm cant wait for OMAP307:40
GeneralAntillesThat's the 3430?07:40
rm_youthe thing i love the n800 for the most is mobile media device07:40
GeneralAntillesYeah, that's tasty.07:40
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GeneralAntillesI like that I can use it more or less like I use my computer.07:41
GeneralAntillesWatch TV or a movie, irc, browse the web07:41
rm_youwith a decent video transfer bus, OMFG07:41
GeneralAntillesJust take whatever you've got and stick it on there.07:41
rm_youi might buy a pandora if it comes out first <_<07:43
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mbufthe invitation to update ssh keys has a timeout?07:49
mbufX-Fade_, need to re-upload my ssh keys07:50
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oilinkiomap2 / omap3 are cpus?07:59
KotCzarnywhole systems08:00
KotCzarnygoogle for: ti omap208:00
febbhas anyone of you got a Nokia 770   -with you- ?08:00
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GeneralAntillesfebb, I do.08:02
GeneralAntillesoilinki, they're SoCs.08:02
oilinkiKotCzarny: has it also put in the box and what is the price?08:02
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GeneralAntillesThat question is nonsensical.08:02
oilinkithanks. let me be very newbie :)08:03
KotCzarnyi think you would have to buy 1000nds08:03
febbGeneralAntilles: Thanks for answering...  would you happen to have the demo video that came with the original N 770 OS, the one about Discovery Channel ?08:03
GeneralAntillesfebb, no.08:03
GeneralAntillesJust download the FIASCO image?08:03
febbGeneral.  :(  oh well..thanks anyway...   any idea on where that'd video could be downloaded / recovered ?08:03
GeneralAntilles[1:03am] <GeneralAntilles> Just download the FIASCO image?08:04
KotCzarnyfebb: flash os2006 etc08:04
KotCzarnyor 200508:04
KotCzarnythen copy somewhere08:04
febbKot yeah... I guess it is within the firmware images...   but, is there a way to "open" up that file and extract the video ?08:05
febbIn linux. by the way. !08:05
KotCzarnythere is08:05
KotCzarnythough you will be loading whole image into mem08:06
febbyeah... sort of like a virtual disk....kind of thing.08:06
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oilinkiomap seems to be 'slightly' overkill for what I'm looking for. do you have recommendation for small device which could run asterisk and and maybe openwrt08:07
KotCzarnylinksys wrt54g08:07
oilinkisimilar to linksys wrt54g :)08:07
GeneralAntillesoilinki, get yourself a low-end VIA board?08:07
KotCzarnyor better wrt54gl08:07
oilinkiwrt54g is slightly ugly :)08:07
KotCzarnyoilinki: look for arm boards08:07
febbany pointers about some docs on how to open/mount firmware images on a linux box ?08:07
oilinkiGeneralAntilles: what is VIA board?08:08
KotCzarnysomeone was mentioning them, forgot the name08:08
KotCzarnydon't get x86.08:08
KotCzarnygo arm.08:08
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rm_youoilinki: take the board from the wrt54g out of the case? :P08:08
NullM0demsoekris is nice, but still alittle pricey08:08
oilinkiyes. arm might be better.08:08
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oilinkirm_you: yeah :)08:09
NullM0demI like the ts-780008:09
KotCzarnywell, that depends how much he can spend08:09
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KotCzarnybut yeah, 7800 is nicer :)08:10
oilinkiI'm thinking of doing an packet for people who live aboard. well. maybe ATA + remote server would be good enought08:10
oilinkivoip solution that is08:10
KotCzarnyoilinki: rm_you's solution is valid too, just get wrt54g board out08:11
oilinkiKotCzarny: put in the white box and liitle apple logo on top of it and sell as iHomeCall :)08:12
KotCzarnycould work08:12
KotCzarnyotoh, you can buy a bunch of 770s08:13
KotCzarnyand make a mesh network :>08:14
NullM0demthouse may mesh in theory08:14
KotCzarnyimage frames from hell?08:14
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KotCzarnyhmm, what olpc has done right is the dpad buttons08:30
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NullM0demdoes it fold into a tablet mode?08:37
KotCzarnykb looks sucky though..08:37
KotCzarnyi know it has to be waterproof..08:38
NullM0demheh, IT MUST!08:38
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NullM0demMy brian would mush using that thing, I need the snap08:38
NullM0demI like the n810 snappy sounds08:39
NullM0dem:) im tempted to use them on my desktop, there must be a way08:40
* Navi dies08:40
KotCzarnyrecord them08:40
NullM0demi used top have a few of the old IBM keyboards08:40
KotCzarnywith track points?08:41
KotCzarnyi'm not interested then08:41
NullM0demjust the metal springs08:41
NullM0demyou could put them in the dishwasher08:41
NullM0demto clean them :)08:41
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KotCzarnyi usually just use vacuum cleaner08:42
NullM0demi could spill coffee and guiness all day on them08:42
KotCzarnyif that's what you do..08:42
NullM0demnot so much anymore..08:43
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DekaritaeI bought a Brando keyboard08:45
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Navismall and cheap08:46
Navinot very touch typey though08:47
KotCzarnylayout is a weird08:47
KotCzarnyand has a windoze key. :/08:47
DekaritaeMy concern is that it has full qwerty and fits in my carryall bag08:47
DekaritaeOh, and a big Enter key08:48
KotCzarnythat's a plus08:48
KotCzarnythough i'm now trained to use single row height enter08:48
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* johnx can't stand double height enter keys cause it messes with the location of \ |08:51
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johnxand also makes me end up with a half width backspace more often than not08:52
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NaviWell, a lot of condensed keyboards have half width backspace08:53
KotCzarnynot thinkpads08:53
KotCzarnyjust drop those windoze keys and you are good08:53
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johnxnot mine :D08:55
johnxwindows keys are great08:55
johnxhow can you be against having an extra modifier that you can do whatever you want with?08:55
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KotCzarnyever seen thinkpad's keyboard?08:56
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KotCzarnydekaritae: wrong channel08:57
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DekaritaeOh, maybe not08:57
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KotCzarnyeven 770 can use sdhc cards08:57
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ds3did the guy finish making the SD adapters for the 770?08:59
johnxit's really sad that this is technically possible but didn't actually come from palm...08:59
ds3thought there was one already09:00
johnxds3, I think I saw a web page where someone was selling them...09:01
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johnxlet me try to find it...09:01
RST38hPalm is long beyond any hope of recovery09:01
ds3seem to recall there is a hack to pull out PRCs from the ROMs of another device09:01
GeneralAntillesThis is just getting weirder
johnxKotCzarny, I'm looking at a picture of a thinkpad keyboard. Why would you not want a windows key? what would fill the empty space, plastic?09:02
KotCzarnyfor example09:02
Navijohnx, seems ridiculous to me09:03
NaviI use my windows key a lot09:03
NaviMakes a great meta key09:03
johnxKotCzarny, if you have trouble missing the space bar...I don't even know what to say09:03
RST38hGeneral: I know what it is about!09:04
johnxNavi, exactly, I have all my window manager shortcuts bound to it...anything "window" related09:04
GeneralAntillesRST38h, good, because I'm just confused.09:04
NaviW-e to fire up dmenu09:04
Navithat's about all I use, actually09:04
RST38hGeneral: Originally, this page has been created to describe the policies guiding the usage of the word "maemo"09:04
NaviW-t for terminal, I guess09:05
RST38hGeneral: It is Nokia's registered brandname, so they are naturally touchy about other people using it09:05
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RST38hGeneral: But why all the other crap has been added there - I have no idea.09:05
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, I was ready to discuss it when peter first posted his stuff, but now I don't know what to think.09:06
RST38hGeneral: I would let it slide: it is not our job or even legal right to define a brand09:07
GeneralAntillesNo, I know.09:07
RST38hBasically, Nokia marketing gyus should do it09:07
GeneralAntillesI'm just wondering what the hell is going on. ;)09:07
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DekaritaeSo what non-Nokia devices have people boot maemo09:08
GeneralAntillesand want to get to the end of it so I know what terms are for what and the correct usage, etc.09:08
KotCzarnyqemu guys09:08
DekaritaeNot emulate09:08
RST38hThe notion that there should be a single name to describe the platform is a correct one though09:09
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GeneralAntillesI guess my only issue is that ITOS and maemo are two distinctly different things.09:09
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RST38hJust define them as a single thing and be done with it =)09:10
GeneralAntillesBut they're NOT a single thing.09:11
RST38hDekaritae: Well, there is a native x86 version of Maemo09:11
KotCzarnyhmm, with 3g iphone at 199$ there should be a bunch of crazed second hand iphones :>09:11
GeneralAntillesNokia is pushing maemo as more of a community-driven open source thing09:11
RST38hYou can define them to mean whatever you want09:11
GeneralAntillesITOS is definitely not that.09:11
RST38hCall ITOS MaemoOS09:11
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RST38hCall tablets MaemoPads09:11
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KotCzarnymaemopads bring an imagery of women safety product09:12
* Navi pokes RST38h09:12
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* RST38h sqeeks09:13
johnxDekaritae, zaurus, and beagleboard09:13
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johnxalso, maemopad is already the name of an application...09:14
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KotCzarnywhich could be resolved09:14
KotCzarnywouldn't author be proud to give away that name to n. ?09:15
johnxhmm...actually, did Nokia write the first version of maemo pad or was it 3rd party?09:15
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qwerty12"Maintainer: Aaa Bbb <>" 0.o09:17
johnxreally? I know that guy!09:17
qwerty12Cool! Can you introduce me?09:17
KotCzarny64 bytes from ( icmp_seq=1 ttl=54 time=451 ms09:18
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* qwerty12 hates connecting to Chinese sites from here >.<09:19
KotCzarnywell, maybe not09:19
KotCzarnyor whatever it's spelled09:19
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aquarius-KotCzarny: the ping time looks like china anyway :)09:20
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aquarius-i had some 100ms from comcast in DC to my server in europe and called thad quite bad... :)09:22
KotCzarnyi never get less than 120ms to .eu09:22
KotCzarnyeven with dsl set to fastpath09:22
RST38hKot: double t09:22
KotCzarnyrst: close enough09:23
RST38hand chinese probably manually inspect packets09:23
aquarius-KotCzarny: well, at least it's usually quite stable (VoIP transatlantic calls saved me lots of money :) )09:24
KotCzarnyaquarius: what do you use to call landline phones in .eu?09:26
aquarius-KotCzarny: I personally use ha-vel ( but they don't seem to have this part of site in english09:28
KotCzarnyare they .cz only (landline wise)09:29
aquarius-KotCzarny: and btw. it's not that simple to say "in the .eu", this is not US...09:29
aquarius-afaik they don't offer services abroad if you mean this09:30
KotCzarnyaquarius, i know, but generally .eu regulates most of the countries in the eu09:30
johnxheh...that's ok, it varies between states in the US to some extent09:30
aquarius-johnx: i think that it varies much more in the EU09:31
KotCzarnydepends on the target ip09:31
johnxaquarius-, that's true, but there are some companies that only provide local numbers in one state09:32
aquarius-johnx: we actually have some companies that provide local numbers only in certain district09:32
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aquarius-but situation in .cz is quite special, we have the most ISPs in the EU (not per capita but total)09:33
johnxaquarius-, do you know the reason for that?09:34
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aquarius-not freedom but incompetence09:35
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KotCzarnycan be interchanged ;)09:35
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aquarius-the formerly state-owned telecom company didn't offer broadband until some three years ago09:35
qwerty12aquarius-, Does that make prices any cheaper (with so much being around)?09:35
aquarius-i mean reasonable broadband for reasonable prices09:35
aquarius-qwerty12: don't know what are the prices in EU09:36
KotCzarnyin .pl too high09:36
aquarius-but you can get 1Mbps for some $2009:36
RST38hkinda limited09:37
qwerty12Hmm, I'm paying ~£15 for 8MB09:37
aquarius-it was actually $10 some time ago but USD went down09:37
aquarius-i remember when one dollar was 45czk back in 1990s09:37 sells 5Mbd unlimited (both ways) for $3009:37
aquarius-it's between 15 and 16 now09:37
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RST38h0.5Mbd for $1309:38
KotCzarnyrst, what medium?09:38
KotCzarnycable/dsl/radio ?09:38
RST38hOld good 100BTX cable09:38
RST38hI am using per-MB plan though, the speeds are higher this way09:39
RST38hComes to about the same amount of money though09:39
aquarius-here we have mostly radios (2.4GHz and 5GHz outdoor) and ADSLs.. some operators provide unbundled ADSL (on lines not owned by o2 - the former state-owned telecom company)09:39
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RST38hFor internal wiring they use fiber. There are still some WiFi links, but it is mostly fiber now09:40
Italodanceguys help me09:40
RST38haquarius: no communal networks in .cz?09:41
Italodancehow can i move map folder for maemo mapper from device m to mmc?09:41
aquarius-RST38h: you mean community networks? well, yes. - probably one of the biggest networks in the area09:41
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Italodancei moved it from device memory to mmc but the app maemo mapper can't find and read it? what can i do?09:42
RST38haquarius: I mean guys who will connect you to internet by ethernet for a small fee?09:43
aquarius-RST38h: is actually more like a community network association09:43
johnxItalodance, in maemo mapper you need to tell it where to find the files09:43
RST38haquarius: they are usually more reliable than DSL09:43
RST38haquarius: oh, then it is not the same09:44
aquarius-RST38h: yes, i worked for one of these but the price of the ethernet connection is actually comparable to DSL09:44
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Italodancejohnx yes but where ?09:45
aquarius-it's a bit faster and also almost symmetrical09:45
Italodancejohnx i couldn't find this option09:45
johnxI don't have maemo mapper open right now09:45
johnxlook in the maps menu09:46
johnxmaybe map repositories or something? manage maps?09:46
johnxjust look around09:46
GeneralAntillesItalodance, maemo mapper has excellent help.09:46
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Italodancejohnx yes on map repositories thank and new map downloads will save on mmc now?09:48
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johnxyou have to change it for all repositories09:48
amengwhere i can find a yuy2 video file?09:49
KotCzarnymencode one?09:49
qwerty12 is down (for me at least anyway) :/09:50
Italodancejohnx yes09:50
amengKotCzarny:Good idea. can you give me the command?09:50
KotCzarnyprobably raw codec and proper colorspace as a subparam09:51
johnxqwerty12, me too09:53
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KotCzarnymencoder input.mpg -ovc raw -oac pcm -vf format=yuy2 -o output.avi09:53
amengKotCzarny: Thanks09:54
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KotCzarnynext time use google09:55
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qwerty12I'd have suggested man mencoder and be done with it.09:55
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KotCzarnygoogle is better09:56
KotCzarnyand faster09:56
KotCzarnymanual is sequential09:56
qwerty12But I can type man faster :P09:56
KotCzarnygoogle is random access09:56
KotCzarnybut you search/read manual slower :P09:57
qwerty12True, google is faster, it's just easier on my side to suggest man mencoder :p09:57
KotCzarnyqwerty12: thx for the tip, next answer for you will be man09:57
johnxjust as fast to get a man page up ... if you have a windows key: win+n for a new terminal, man mencoder09:58
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qwerty12NOOOOO, I need my KotCzarny's answers back! :P09:58
KotCzarnybow to my answers!09:59
qwerty12(Well, not now anyway, I gtg :P)09:59
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GeneralAntilles"Maemo" just looks so wrong. :\10:06
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Khertan_TheRealHi !10:08
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johnxhi Khertan10:08
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johnxGeneralAntilles, the maemo logo doesn't have a capitalized M...10:08
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Khertanmy n810 come back from the nokia repair center but i still have the same problem10:09
GAN800Yeah, I know. Check the Maemo brand wiki page.10:09
Khertaneach time i active swap ... pdflush eat all cpu ... a freeze it ...10:09
Khertanfor me it s an hardware memory problem ... but they said that memory work well10:10
Khertanbut i don't know why it s happen10:10
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Khertansomeone have an idea ?10:10
johnxdoes dmesg say anything interesting?10:10
Khertandmesg is slow on maemo ?10:11
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johnxprobably just screen updates10:12
Khertanor does it is again a freeze due to pdflush ?10:12
timelyGAN800: that page is only going to get more interesting later :)10:12
Khertangui is frozen so i don't think it s a screen update10:13
Khertan(i can't switch application)10:13
johnxok, that sounds bad10:13
johnxI'm guessing they didn't enable swap when they tested it10:13
timelyjohnx / GAN800: can one of you explain the italics in
timelyunder " Mapper for Maemo"10:14
timelyp1, p2, p3  = italics10:14
timelyp4 = plain10:14
timelyp5, p6 = italics10:14
GAN800That was my comment that qgil intesperced his reply into.10:14
timelyor may be p6 is plain10:15
timelyeither way, very very confusing10:15
Khertanjohnx > hum ... it s seems to be the same problem with swap unactivated now ... :(10:15
GeneralAntillesYeah, I agree.10:15
timelybut qgil interspersed twice, w/ different formats, no?10:15
johnxKhertan, maybe reflash, install ssh, login via ssh, turn on swap and run dmesg from ssh before it gets bad10:16
GeneralAntillesI switched to using italicized text for comments not on talk pages10:16
GeneralAntillesThat's just a mess10:16
Khertanjohnx> i ll try that10:16
Khertanonce i ll come back to home10:16
timelyGeneralAntilles: can you guys use | prefixes  instead?10:16
timely| this is me10:16
Khertani don't have a micro usb cable with me10:16
timely| | this is you interspersed10:16
GeneralAntillesOne sec10:16
timely| | -- you10:17
timely| this is still me10:17
timely| -- me10:17
Khertan(this is a stupid idea this micro usb !)10:17
timely| this is you10:17
timely| -- you10:17
KotCzarnytimely, fail?10:17
timelyKhertan: yeah, because everyone likes carrying extra power cables10:17
Khertanit s like the powerbook air ...10:18 still *do* need an extra power cable10:18
GeneralAntillesIt's hard to address a comment point-by-point in mediawiki.10:18
Khertanhave you seen the fake ads where someone add all the necessary cable in the letter ? :)10:18
timelyjohnx: no, i steal someone's laptop10:18
timelyand they need an extra battery :)10:18
johnxhmm, n810 charges over micro usb?10:19
Khertanjohnx > no if u use device that doesn't need to be charged every hours ...10:19
Khertanjohnx > no10:19
timelyGeneralAntilles: can you really not use | | things?10:19
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GeneralAntillesIt shouldn't be on the main page anyway at this point.10:19
timelyok, but...10:20
timelythat still doesn't help readability10:20
timelyis it impossible to get vertical bars ?10:20
timelyor box nesting?10:20
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KotCzarny<p style=..> ?10:21
Khertanin dmesg i see many 'setting voltage 'VMMC' to 3000 mV and 'slide open' ... but nothing interesting10:21
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timelyKotCzarny: this is wiki, i.e., junk. not html + css :)10:21
* timely doesn't like wikis at all :)10:21
GeneralAntillesYou could do css, of course.10:22
GeneralAntillesBut then you have to train everybody to use it when commenting.10:22
timelyno thanks10:22
timelyhtml or css in the hands of people who can barely use wikis = epic fail10:22
timelyinstead of people who can barely use wikis which derives from10:22
GeneralAntillesThat's what templates are for.10:22
timelywikis = fail10:22
Khertanjohnx > could it be my external sd card that make problem ?10:23
johnxKhertan, what does it have on it?10:23
johnxbut swap is on internal10:23
timelyhrm, is Maemo supposed to be initial caps?10:23
GeneralAntillestimely, see that page.10:23
Khertannothing else than my python source code ... but nothing is exec on it ...10:23
timelyMozilla had that property, and i tried to tell that it should too10:23
GeneralAntillesAt this point, I don't have a goddamn clue.10:23
timelybut my memory of the previous statement (not this new revised series)10:24
timelywas that they (for reasons that made no sense to me) insisted on maemo10:24
GeneralAntillesIn the past, maemo was supposed to be lowercase.10:24
johnxKhertan, some questions: do you have / symlinked under /home/user/MyDocs? Does your external card have an ext2/3 fs with  *any* symlinks on it?10:24
GeneralAntillesNow, I dunno.10:24
timelyGAN800: /join GAN80010:25
GeneralAntillesI'm kinda wishing Quim and Peter would've come up with a slightly more fleshed-out plan before dumping this.10:25
Khertanjohnx> no symlink on -R /home/user/*10:26
johnxjust checking10:27
Khertanand the sd card is in FAT10:27
Khertani ll look again ...10:27
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X-Fade_GeneralAntilles: Well, it is a wiki :)10:28
Khertanno i'm sure ... i ve rm all folder ...10:28
KhertanX-Fade_> Hi ...10:28
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade_, it's nice to see things a bit more out in the open I suppose, but still.10:29
X-Fade_Khertan: Hi.10:29
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KhertanX-Fade_ > i ve send a package yesterday made and send with pypackager and i get no return (no mail) ... it s seem's to not appear too on repository extras ... is it normal ?10:30
X-Fade_GeneralAntilles: You wanted to be involved and in the know. Now you are, right?10:30
KhertanX-Fade_ > maybe there are errors ... :)10:30
X-Fade_Khertan: Regular extras upload or autobuilder?10:30
GeneralAntillesX-Fade_, not as far as I'm able to tell. I don't really know what's actually going on. :P10:30
Khertannot really regular ... but regular using pypackager :)10:30
Khertanssh it ...10:30
X-Fade_GeneralAntilles: Ask them? :) Wiki has talk pages, you know ;)10:31
Khertan \note try autobuilder !10:31
Khertanoups ;)10:31
X-Fade_Peter is Quim's manager btw, maybe that helps you understand it a bit more?10:31
GeneralAntillesOh really?10:32
GeneralAntillesIs he new? Kinda showed up out of nowhere.10:32
X-Fade_Khertan: The regular upload to extras has no mail function.10:33
Khertanah so i ve made a mix with a feature of the autobuilder :) sorry :)10:33
X-Fade_GeneralAntilles: I've met him in Helsinki in Februari and in Berlin. So he is around at least since Feb.10:33
Khertanjohnx > i think i ve found something10:33
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Khertanactivating omweather make pdflush eating 100% cpu10:34
Khertanfor 10s10:34
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Khertanand moving the applet made the same thing10:35
Khertanbut i m not the only one to use it10:36
Khertanso it could be not a problem with the applet10:36
johnxKhertan, hang on, I'll see if it has a small effect on my system10:37
mbufX-Fade_, invitation to update ssh keys times out?10:38
johnxKhertan, doesn't seem to cause much CPU usage at all by pdflush10:38
Khertanis their a way to see live writing on disk ?10:39
Khertani think it s just a border effect made by something else10:39
johnxit would be nice to have atop compiled for the tablet10:40
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Khertanjohnx> no other idea ? :)10:44
johnxatop would let you see a lot more about stats10:44
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johnxI'm looking at compiling it, but my scratchbox setup seems to be not working right now :/10:45
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johnxif you can post a dmesg log somewhere that would be great though10:45
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mbufif i package inotify-tools, which repo should i add it to, or how should i make it available?10:47
johnxextras-devel would be nice, and then after it gets some testing, move to extras10:48
mbufjohnx, got an automated e-mail (workflow 0.7), will follow suit10:50
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Khertanjohnx > i ll do it ...10:51
johnxwoo! I think my last debian update got me some of the incompatibility problems ubuntu users are having with scratchbox...10:52
timelywelcome to debian10:54
johnxyeah, I've played this game before :)10:54
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johnxat least in debian it's easy enough to fix things when they break...ubuntu was driving me insane10:55
timelyare you good at it?10:55
timelyi've found the best solution is VMware images made by someone else10:55
johnxbeen playing for 10 years now, in another life I was a sysadmin10:55
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timelyi've mostly punted on debian.. did you read my garden of eden blog entry?10:56
Khertanjohnx > once i be able to do thing between pdflush freeze10:56
johnxtimely, I did. They made a mistake, they owned up and fixed it10:56
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timelyjohnx: yeah, see ... adam eventually owned up10:57
timelybut he was still kicked out of eden10:57
johnxyeah, well, I'm not god10:57
timelyand we will never return (well, i'm not going to worry about the end of days10:57
johnxI read the old testament, but I don't go in for that kind of thing...10:58
timelythat's a problem that is really way too explosive)10:58
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johnxtimely, your choice I guess. They're only human...and I bet that guy doesn't make the same mistake twice11:01
Khertanjohnx> dmesg doesn't display message since the boot11:01
johnxyeah, it's buffer must be too small11:01
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Khertani ll reboot the n810 ... and try again a dmesg11:02
johnxyeah, I don't see where it added swap11:02
johnxthat would be my bet for where something interesting might happen11:03
Khertanswap is desactivated now ... but problem still here11:03
Khertani ll activate it again and reboot again :)11:03
Khertanboot take at least 5min11:04
johnxdid the problem appear before swapon or only after?11:04
Khertani ve always use swapon ...11:04
Khertanso it s appear with swapon :)11:04
Khertanbut now with swap off it s still here11:05
johnxand it stays after you turn off swap11:05
johnxbut before you turned on swap for the first time it was ok?11:05
johnxbut really, 5 minutes is a pretty insane boot time11:05
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Khertanyes it was ok in february 2008 :)11:06
Khertanbut since i ve flash it :)11:06
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Khertanthis time it s come back from the nokia repair center ...11:07
Khertanthey have flashed it ...11:07
Khertanswap was activated ...11:07
Khertanand during 24 hours i ve no problems ...11:07
Khertan(i ven't restore applications, nor parameters)11:07
johnxdid you check that the internal 2GB was partitioned right?11:08
Khertani ve formatted it ... after seeing the problem agani11:08
Khertanformatted from the file manager on nokia11:09
johnxcan you run sfdisk -l as root?11:09
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Khertanwhat you want to know ?11:09
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KhertanWarning partiotion table looks like it was made for C/H/S=*/73/33 (instead of 186576/4/16)11:10
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johnxmake sure that #cyls for /dev/mmcblk0p1 is *not bigger* than the Disk /dev/mmcblk0: n cylinders at the top11:11
Khertanon /dev/mmcblk111:11
johnxerrr...the internal card, so mmcblk011:11
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KotCzarnythe 2gb one11:12
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Khertan-> /dev/mmcblk0 : 61440 cylinders11:14
KotCzarnyand partition on it?11:14
Khertan-> /dev/mmcblk0p1 : 61439 cylinders11:14
KotCzarnylooks ok11:14
johnxok, that's right11:14
johnxgood to rule that out11:14
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Khertanbut there is problem with the other11:17
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KotCzarnyprobably formatted by some dumb device11:18
johnxlike the manufacturer :)11:18
Khertanlike maemo ...11:18
johnxI would try and test as much as possible without that card in the system...but a lot of times partitioning doesn't really matter11:18
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Khertani always format card before using it with my device11:18
KotCzarnypartition could be untouched since factory format11:19
KotCzarnyonly fs recreated11:19
KotCzarnyi'm talking about partition table, not actual filesystem format11:19
Khertanand dmesg :
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KotCzarnywhat's the problem anyway?11:20
Khertanwithout the sdcard pdflush do the same thing11:20
KhertanKotCzarny > pdflush eat all cpu ...11:20
Khertanfreezing totally the device11:20
Khertanand boot take between 5 to 15 min ...11:21
Khertanswap can't be used11:21
KotCzarnytry without sd card?11:21
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Khertansame thing11:21
KotCzarnyreboot first11:21
Khertanjust the internal that i can't remove11:21
Khertanoh no ... 15 min again ? :)11:21
KotCzarnyoh, yes, you can remove it, but that will wipe data on it :)11:22
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Khertani ve format it already11:22
Khertanthere is nothing on it ... only swap when i activate it11:22
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KotCzarnytry: time (dd </dev/zero >/removeme bs=1M count=20 && sync)11:24
KotCzarnyand tell me how long it took11:24
KotCzarny(as root)11:24
KotCzarnyor change /removeme to /home/user/removeme and run as user11:24
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X-Fade_Hey guys, we've talked about a separate diablo extras repository before. But do you think that we should with an empty diablo repo or should we copy everything from chinook and jumpstart it that way?11:25
X-Fade_s/should with/should start with/11:25
infobotX-Fade_ meant: Hey guys, we've talked about a separate diablo extras repository before. But do you think that we should start with an empty diablo repo or should we copy everything from chinook and jumpstart it that way?11:25
hrwX-Fade_: rebuild everything11:26
KotCzarnyx-fade: depends11:26
X-Fade_hrw: Hmm yeah, that is option 3 ;)11:26
KotCzarnyis chinook + packages from diablo stable?11:26
hrwX-Fade_: diablo will have few libs newer so use them11:27
X-Fade_hrw: Yeah, so we should treat it as not being compatible with chinook.11:28
KotCzarnyotoh when other distros release new version, (12.0 -> 12.1) they provide complete tree11:29
X-Fade_KotCzarny: Yeah, but they have sources :)11:29
X-Fade_We only have sources for packages uploaded by developers them selves.11:29
X-Fade_Or if they used the autobuilder11:29
KotCzarnywait, are we talking about user perspective or nokia's one?11:30
X-Fade_bergie: Yesterday morning.11:30
KotCzarnyi thought nokia have sources too11:30
X-Fade_KotCzarny: I'm talking about extras here.11:30
X-Fade_Which is the community repo.11:30
KotCzarnyi though you are talking about diablo :)11:31
X-Fade_KotCzarny: I'm sure Nokia will do their thing in their repos.11:31
X-Fade_KotCzarny: Yeah, but we need a repo too for diablo, you know ;)11:31
KhertanKotCzarny > syntax error :)11:31
KotCzarnyi think it's up to authors to provide updated packages11:31
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KhertanKotCzarny > unexpected ")"11:31
KotCzarnyif they are incompatible with new release11:31
X-Fade_Yeah, I'm leaning towards that too.11:31
KotCzarnymost distros have a symlink for 'current'11:32
X-Fade_But that would mean that on release of diablo, you don't have any extras software. Until the developers upload their new versions.11:32
KotCzarnysimply copying the whole tree won't help too11:33
timelyX-Fade_: can't someone have a device running diablo which tries to install a package from chinook11:33
johnxX-Fade_, so, just adding extras-chinook won't be an option?11:33
KotCzarnyyou don't know if packages from chinook are ok with newer libs11:33
KhertanKotCzarny > 1.76s11:33
timelyand if it works, it says it can go to diablo, and if it fails, it makes a note11:33
timelyand then it reflashes and tries the next package :)11:33
X-Fade_timely: Well, I don't have diablo, so that person wouldn't be me ;)11:34
KotCzarnykhertan: now remove that file and try with /media/mmc2/removeme11:34
timelyX-Fade_: if we can setup autobuilders, we should be able to setup autotesters :)11:34
KhertanKotCzarny > and 6 s on /media/mmc211:34
X-Fade_johnx: That really depends on if it is 100% compatible.11:34
KotCzarnykhertan: and mmc1?11:35
X-Fade_timely: Sure, let's target Fremantle for that :)11:35
X-Fade_timely: You can always join the project if you want :D11:35
timelyno :)11:35
KotCzarnyisn't one of the requirements for authors on extras to provide source too?11:35
timelybe happy i'm adding categories :)11:35
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KotCzarnyso autorebuild should be possible11:36
Khertanand 4s on mmc111:36
KotCzarnykhertan: so it's not a problem with the flash themselves11:36
X-Fade_KotCzarny: That isn't enforced at the moment.11:36
KhertanKotCzarny > so what it could be ...11:36
Khertanpdflush is a sync process ? no ?11:37
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KotCzarnykhertan: think of strange, memory hungry apps you have installed11:37
Khertannothing eat memory ...11:37
KotCzarnythat could run as early as on startup11:37
Khertani don't see what could run on startup11:37
KotCzarnydo you have custom kernel?11:38
KotCzarnyx-fade: i think we need 'maemo-current' symlink11:38
KotCzarnyi mean extras-current11:39
X-Fade_KotCzarny: That doesn't work if we are not compatible between versions.11:39
KotCzarnythat will point to extras-chinook, then extras-diablo11:39
KotCzarnyand each time new extras tree will start empty11:39
KotCzarnythat way users can have one extras repo11:40
KotCzarnyor they can keep their old11:40
KotCzarnyif they choose not to upgrade11:40
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timelysymlinks are evil :)11:40
KotCzarnywisely used, are not11:41
KotCzarnymake extras-bora, extras-chinook, extras-diablo11:41
KotCzarnyand a symlink extras-current pointing to current version11:42
timelyso... is the problem that packages don't have proper max vers or conflitcs?11:43
KotCzarnycould be11:43
KotCzarnythat needs testing11:43
KotCzarnyauthors rarely test on anything else that they have installed11:43
KotCzarnyso another option is to keep it as it is and hope for .deb system to resolve it11:44
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timelyso... what you should do is go the firefox way11:45
timelyand enforce max versions and offer to rebuild max version limits as testing improves11:45
timelytoo bad that probably can't be done w/ .deb :)11:45
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Khertanrm -rf pdflush !!!!!11:48
KotCzarnypdflush is kernel process11:48
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inzRemoving it would disable flash writes11:49
inzWould that be fun?11:49
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KotCzarnykiosk mode tablet11:49
X-Fade_timely: Do you think you are ready for the planet ;)11:49
X-Fade_timely: I'll add you in a few minutes.11:50
timelyX-Fade_: the feed is empty11:52
timelyif you want to read the pending one, add .1 to the url in your local reader11:52
KotCzarnyfeed him?11:52
timelyX-Fade_: anyway, i'm not flipping the switch until both mozilla and maemo pick up my feed11:53
timelyand i have no idea what will happen11:53
X-Fade_timely: I have read some articles last night.11:53
KhertanKotCzarny > maybe i should make my own custom kernel ...11:53
timelyoh right, ok then :)11:53
* timely goes to worry about other things11:53
timelyi might or might not flip the switch today11:53
timelyi'd like to. since today is a friday11:53
* X-Fade_ thinks timely deserves a holiday ;)11:53
KotCzarnykhertan: how about clean reflash and not restoring backup for a test?11:54
Khertanbecause i ve already do it ... without restoring backup11:54
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Khertanand 2 days after ... same problem11:55
Khertanafter a reflash problem disapear for ... 24 to 48 hours ...11:55
Khertanand then come back again ...11:55
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KotCzarnywhat do you do that can affect it?11:55
KotCzarnyall i can think of is some bad block11:55
Khertanthere is not ... (it s what say nokia repair center)11:56
KotCzarnycan be on sd card as well11:56
KotCzarnyor that 2gb flash11:56
KotCzarnyor internal flash11:56
Khertani ve tryed this morning without sd ... but same problem appears11:57
KotCzarnyone thing i can suggest is booting from sd card11:57
Khertani'm not the only one from what i see on google ...11:57
KotCzarnyie. cloning to sd11:57
Khertani think there is something, maybe a app in a repository that create this11:57
KhertanKotCzarny > what the purpose to clone it on sd ?11:58
KotCzarnyi bet on badblock somewhere11:58
Khertanah ...11:58
KotCzarnyso when you boot from sd card11:58
KotCzarnyyou won't be using n810 flash and 2gb flash11:58
KotCzarnyonly that on external sd11:58
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Khertanwhy not ...11:58
Khertani ll try ...11:59
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Khertanthere is no tool to check memory on maemo ?11:59
KotCzarnydon't forget to disable that 2gb flash (i think it's mounted as mmc211:59
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Khertani ll can do this too :)11:59
KotCzarnyyou can try some generic c based tool11:59
KotCzarnyor write one in php12:00
Khertanhum ...12:00
Khertanphp ... lol12:00
KotCzarnymay be slower, but it's a one time venue12:00
Khertanit s more simple to launch C# runtime ... it ll eat up all memory at launch12:00
lcukkhertan dont you dare infect our maemo devices with c# :P12:01
KotCzarnyhi lcuk12:01
Khertanlcuk > no of course not ... it was a joke12:01
lcukmorning :)12:01
* lcuk phew12:01
Khertan <<< vote vote vote please :)12:02
KotCzarnywhy vote if i don't experience this bug12:02
lcukkhertan :) might i thank you personally by the way, without your pygtkeditor i wouldn't have been able to hack and code whilst sat at linuxtag :)12:02
lcukim using it for my c projects, but i still think it feels slow, if you've seen the video of mine you would see how i want to work with text documents12:03
lcukhi kot :)12:03
* lcuk wants the world to edit documents smoothly but for now still prefers highlighting editor over speed12:05
KotCzarnyi don't like highlighting12:05
KotCzarnyi turn it off in mcedit12:06
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inzlcuk, take vim, you get both!12:06
KotCzarny  |> 'david whittaker - golden axe';12:06
lcukanyway, i will call back later i was just grabbing some *cough* vb code from home12:07
Khertanlcuk > i ven't see12:07
Khertanmaybe i should ...12:07
Khertanwhere is it ?12:07
lcukKotCzarny, would you find him link please :)12:08
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lcukback later12:08
KotCzarnywhich one?12:08
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lcukKhertan, this one
lcukthat one kot, anyway going now properly12:14
lcukback at or after lunch or tonight \o12:14
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Khertanit s funny ... is it usefull ?12:20
KotCzarnytext reader, note taker12:20
KotCzarnylooks and feels great12:20
Khertani don't doubt ...12:21
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KotCzarnyquitetly plotting to detronize canola, fbreader, maemopad and mtpaint12:21
Khertani would say is it really usable on the n8x0 touchscren12:21
Khertanbut yes adding this in pygtkeditor would be i think a good thing12:22
KotCzarnyyou mean kinetic scrolling?12:22
Khertanyes ...12:23
timelyX-Fade_: ok... the blog's live :)12:23
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KotCzarnybloggenstein is alive!12:23
X-Fade_timely: I still need to get coffee and then enable your blog :)12:24
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KhertanX-Fade_ > i ve uploaded a package nammed python2.5-gtksourceview in extras yesterday ... can i borring you by asking why it is not in the repository ?12:27
X-Fade_Khertan: ok, but it can take a while.12:31
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X-Fade_Khertan: This package?
X-Fade_Khertan: Seems fine?12:36
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X-Fade_GAN800: ping?12:41
GeneralAntillesX-Fade_, pong.12:43
X-Fade_GeneralAntilles: I think you should chime in too ;)12:43
GeneralAntillesI sent an email to lardman and Jaffa about it about an hour ago.12:44
GeneralAntillesNot sure yet. ;)12:44
X-Fade_Hehe :)12:46
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KhertanX-Fade_ > lol sorry ... i need to change my glasses12:57
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hrw~hail telnet in fanoush's initfs13:02
* infobot bows down to telnet in fanoush's initfs and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"13:02
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hrwany idea why  "dd if=/dev/mtdblock4 of=/mnt/rootfs.jffs2" on n810 i/o errors after 207.5MB? I am doing it from initfs telnet session13:03
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KotCzarnyi had a badblock too13:04
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KotCzarnylet me check at which mb13:04
KotCzarnymaybe some kind of protection?13:04
hrwrather not protection13:04
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hrwbtw - I am feeling strange... "telnet" - it is soo 90s...13:06
ccookehrw: hah. not really13:07
ccookeSure, many dvices support ssh these days, but generally you need to connect to their telnet or seril port to *enable* that...13:07
inzhrw, use netcat, it is much more this millenium13:07
ccookeinz: indeed! And it's even usually 8-bit clean13:08
AStormyou mean more 1970s13:08
AStormpity it's one-way13:08
KotCzarnyit's 2 way13:08
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hrwtar to the rescue13:11
KotCzarny-rw-r--r-- 1 29999 root  70647808 2008-03-11 17:31 m413:12
AStormI'd love new reiser4 for that 2.6.21-nokia13:13
KotCzarnythat's where error occurs on mtdblock4 for me13:13
KotCzarny1 block13:13
AStormKotCzarny: boohoo, your flash broke13:13
hrw-rw-r--r--    1 root     root       323.9M Jun 13 10:13 maemo.tar13:13
KotCzarnyyeah, but hrw has the same error13:13
KotCzarnyonly at diff pos13:13
inzAStorm, because it kills your wife? (bad joke reference to bad joke)13:13
AStorminz: ;)13:14
AStormnah, because it's the only recent compressed fs that works13:14
AStormif you have any other, tell me13:14
inzBut does it do wear levelling?13:14
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AStormMMC does its own wear levelling13:16
AStormjust need an FS that is friendly to it, i.e. disperses data evenly on the device13:16
KotCzarnymix them13:16
KotCzarnyi think some crypto fs does that13:17
AStormnah, n810 is too slow for crypto13:17
AStormand no, no crypto does that, it's inefficient13:17
KotCzarnybut safer13:17
AStormit's said that reiserfs and reiser4 are fast on flash disks13:17
X-Fade_AStorm: Not if we could use the crypto on the omap chip ;)13:17
AStormX-Fade_: definitely13:17
AStormalso, btrfs is fast, but it has no compression13:18
AStormso 2MB/s transfer rate is biting it badly13:18
KotCzarnywell, only writes are slow13:18
AStormreads are too13:19
AStormcheck it yourself13:19
hrwAStorm: after using reiserfs for ~year I prefer ext313:19
KotCzarnyreads are fast13:19
AStormhrw: on MMC?13:19
hrwon HDD13:19
hrwafter using XFS I even more prefer ext3 ;)13:19
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KotCzarnyhrw: what about jfs?13:20
AStormXFS is *slow* for normal usage, yes13:20
AStormjfs is an antique system of antiquity and IRIX13:20
hrwKotCzarny: never tried13:20
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AStormreiser4 would be great, if not for the reiser himself ;P13:21
* timeless doesn't understand why anyone would want anyhing other than zfs13:21
AStormit's missing resizing and has some locking problems13:21
AStormtimeless: zsf *is slow*13:21
AStormcomparable to xfs13:21
AStormand we have LVM anyway13:21
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cityLightshi all13:22
KotCzarnyastorm: how about raid1 on a 16 flash partitions?13:22
cityLightssmall issue here: no space left13:22
timelessx-fade. where's my planet13:22
KotCzarnythat would disperse blocks :)13:22
KotCzarnycitylights: clone to sd13:22
AStormKotCzarny: LVM does that too (but you can use normal dm too)13:22
AStormKotCzarny: I did that on 2 partitions13:22
timelessclassic raid sucks..13:22
X-Fade_timeless: Oops. Sorry.. Will do it now.13:23
AStormtimeless: no, it doesn't13:23
cityLightsthanks: how to find the files that caused it - and remove them?13:23
AStormit works13:23
AStormRaidZ is a ripoff13:23
KotCzarnycitylights: find / -size +10M13:23
timelessand i've mever seen people happy about lvm's13:23
KotCzarnyor something13:23
cityLights/home/user # df -h13:23
AStormtimeless: because they don't talk about it13:23
AStormas it *works* :-)13:23
cityLights/dev/mtdblock4          251.5M    239.7M     11.8M  95% /13:24
AStormwell, RAID Z is technically RAID-5 with variable stripe size13:24
AStormnice mod13:24
cityLightsfind: invalid number '10M'13:24
KotCzarnyman find13:24
AStormsomeone should implement that in dm-raid13:24
KotCzarnyand read what params -size accepts13:24
KotCzarnyotoh, find on tablet may be crippled13:25
timelessno man pages13:25
timelesskinda hard to use man13:25
KotCzarnytimeless: oss utils usually are machine independent13:25
cityLightsI suspect its a /var issue13:25
AStormman pages can be added13:25
KotCzarnyin /usr/local13:26
timelessbecause we ship busybox tools13:26
timelessnot gnu13:26
KotCzarny#maemo> otoh, find on tablet may be crippled13:26
timelesseverything is :)13:26
cityLightsI basiclly can't activate the google jabber accout at the accounts enable13:26
KotCzarnytimeless: question is: WHY13:26
KotCzarnytimeless: it's not embedded, that 100kb woldn't hurt13:27
timelessthe original reasons were space and start speed13:27
KotCzarnyyou ship 10mb vids13:27
KotCzarnybut skimp on 100kb for usabilitiness in bb13:27
timelesswhether they're still valid today....13:27
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lardmanmorning all13:27
GeneralAntillesHi, lardman. :)13:27
timelessremember 770 was a proto13:27
cityLightsKotCzarny: I didnt find any big files13:28
cityLightsI am wrong to assume no space is left?13:28
timelessthere may have been  goals to target more limited devices13:28
KotCzarnytimeless, even on 77013:28
AStormtimeless: not that it starts slower with coreutils13:28
timelessdroppping vids is cheap13:28
lardmanhi GeneralAntilles13:28
AStormthe reason was Nokia dainbramage13:28
lardman not quite the answer or specificity I was hoping for13:28
timelessbut if a script is built requiring a full tool13:28
KotCzarnyyou could simply have splitted ash from busybox13:28
timelessthen you can't replce it if you downtarget13:29
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KotCzarnyi bet that would fix bash problem too13:29
timelessx-fade: anyway, google reader already found my blog13:30
timelesshow's planet13:30
X-Fade_Planet too.13:30
KotCzarnycitylights: clone to sd13:30
X-Fade_timeless: "No items found in feed."13:30
timelessum, uh, try the feed in a browser, it works for me13:31
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cityLights KotCzarny: i JUST want to understand the cause to all this mess13:32
timelessand it works for google reader13:32
cityLightsI used a bad mmc and cpu ran high13:32
cityLightsI assume lots of errors where writen to a log file13:33
KotCzarnythere's no log file i think13:33
cityLightsif I can't fix this - I would rather flash...13:33
AStormok, time to test 2.6.21 with CFS13:33
KotCzarnyunles you have installed syslog package13:33
AStormwho could drop me a 2.6.21 n810 defconfig?13:33
KotCzarnyit's in kernel13:34
cityLightsis 14.7M/var - ok?13:34
cityLightsI ran du -h /var to find 14.7Mb13:34
AStormKotCzarny: no, that defconfig is for n80013:34
X-Fade_timeless: Might have been a timeout. It now has all posts from 05/11/03 until now.13:34
KotCzarnythen 810 uses the same config?13:35
AStormKotCzarny: no, it can't13:35
AStormit doesn't build13:35
timelessi think the datestampsmay be bad, i'll try to fix them monday13:35
KotCzarnyastorm: builds for me13:35
AStormanyway, who cares13:36
AStormI'll try myconfig ;)13:36
cityLightsmy /usr is 189.8M - I am using a N800 - is it too big?13:37
AStormno, it's not13:37
KotCzarnya little13:37
AStormstop asking pointless questions13:37
AStormdepends on what you have got installed13:37
cityLightsAStorm: I think that the problems I see with my pda are caused13:38
AStormKotCzarny: I'll try btrfs again, this time latest git13:38
cityLightsby missing space13:38
AStormcityLights: df will tell you13:38
AStormuse it13:38
cityLightsI get the line /dev/mtdblock4          251.5M    239.9M     11.6M  95% /13:39
cityLightsso - I got space -right?13:39
cityLightsI removed osso-email and couldnt install it13:39
KotCzarnyclone to sd13:39
cityLightsI tried installing modest, but couldnt save the account info13:40
cityLightsKotCzarny: link pls?13:40
AStormcityLights: google.com13:40
KotCzarnydon't have13:40
KotCzarnyi did it manually13:40
AStormor search internet tablet talk forums13:40
cityLightsclone to sd= slow work - right?13:40
AStormit might be faster13:41
KotCzarnyless than 10 minutes when you know what you are doing13:41
AStormbut usually you won't notice13:41
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AStormmeh, with 2.6.21 I can't use ext413:41
KotCzarnyisn't ext4 still experimental?13:41
AStormwell, technically, so is Linux13:42
KotCzarnylinux has more testing :P13:42
AStormdisk format is stable13:42
AStormfsck now works correctly13:42
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KotCzarnytime will tell13:42
AStormit's more stable I think than reiser413:43
AStormKotCzarny: nah, it has already told that ext4 rocks ;P13:43
AStormusing it for some time13:43
KotCzarnyehe :P13:43
KotCzarny2 words: hidden corruption :P13:43
AStormno hidden corruption here, sorry13:43
AStormthere won't be13:44
AStormunless my HD dies13:44
KotCzarnytime will tell13:44
AStormyeah, time can make my HD fail, definitely13:44
AStormI'm using it for half a year, heavily13:44
AStormearlier there have been problems with fsck destroying partitions ;P but now, it's fixed and works13:45
KotCzarnytill the next bugfix13:45
AStormthey've added a feature and not bugfixes13:46
KotCzarnytill the next bugfix13:46
AStormas there are no known bugs (maybe except in that new feature)13:46
AStormthe new feature is online defrag ;P13:46
AStormI suspect online fsck will come next13:46
GeneralAntillesandre___, ping.13:47
cityLightsa reeboot did the trick13:47
cityLightsall is fine now13:47
cityLightswhich is odd in my mind13:47
andre___GeneralAntilles, pong13:48
GeneralAntillesDo we want to model the Bugsquad after MAG?13:49
cityLightsok, now its time to understand if there is any reason NOT to use clone to sd. is it as fast as now?13:49
cityLightsis it safer?13:49
AStormwell, the reason (on n800) was that MMC cards were removable13:49
AStormwhile in n810, cloning to internal MMC should be done by Nokia, by default ;P13:50
cityLightsand that would help me in... what?13:50
andre___GeneralAntilles: who's MAG? :-)13:50
AStormwould give you more space on / partition13:50
cityLightsof, ok13:50
AStormandre___: Maemo Action Group or something13:50
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* andre___ needs to dig deeper into Maemo it seems :)13:51
GeneralAntillesandre___, guess that one hasn't caught on yet. ;)
cityLightsassuming most of my data is saved at /media/mmc2 - I got the space I need - right?13:51
AStormcityLights: for data, yes13:51
AStormfor / filesystem (programs etc.), maybe not13:51
GeneralAntillesTo clarify, do we want it as an organizational rally point for Bugzilla triage, etc effort or do you want it more as a documentation area for bugzilla procedures and practices?13:51
andre___GeneralAntilles, AStorm: I just created 5min ago13:52
AStormah, there's another downgrade13:52
AStormdefault Maemo can't export the flash over net13:52
AStormunlike the internal MMC13:52
andre___GeneralAntilles, I think I want both :)13:52
AStormKotCzarny: don't tell me. I said "default Maemo"13:53
andre___I need to create initial versions for the To do's I've listed and discuss them on the mailing list, and find interested people13:53
AStormit's not automatic13:53
GeneralAntillesandre___, right, good point. I kinda framed it like they were mutually exclusive. ;)13:53
KotCzarnyastorm: nobody runs default meamo13:53
andre___GeneralAntilles, naah, it's always my problem - "I want everything at once" :-P13:53
AStormbut close to default13:53
AStormand sshfs is not automatic13:54
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AStormesp. mounting it from Windoze is not13:54
AStormunlike USB storage through gadgetfs13:54
andre___GeneralAntilles, hope to work out that Bugsquad stuff next week, too much on the list for today and monday :-/ but if you have any ideas/proposals/contributions, please tell :)13:54
AStormKotCzarny: is it possible to make gadgetfs export the flash?13:55
KotCzarnyi don't use usb for nit13:55
AStormbecause you keep it by your machine13:55
AStormwhich is pointless13:55
AStormit's a *remote* command station, dammit13:56
GeneralAntillesandre___, I've got an idea for a basic framework for the Bugsquad front page.13:56
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andre___GeneralAntilles, nice!13:56
GeneralAntillesAlso, does BS: work for the Bugsquad namespace? :D13:56
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X-Fade_GeneralAntilles: Hmmm BS. ;)13:57
AStormBUG: would be better13:57
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andre___GeneralAntilles, BS isn't obvious13:58
KotCzarnybaby sitters?13:58
GeneralAntillesAStorm, good thinking! :D13:58
AStormBugsquad User Group13:58
KotCzarnybug sitters?13:58
GeneralAntillesandre___, I'm really not a fan of the "Bugsquad/<article>" setup.13:58
andre___"recursive acronyms! recursive acronyms!" :-P13:58
GeneralAntillesI much prefer namespaces.13:58
GeneralAntillesand that's what I've been using on MAG13:58
andre___what about "Bugs:"?13:59
GeneralAntillesBUGS: ?13:59
andre___i quickly thought about a better term 20min ago, but wanted to start "somewhere" :)13:59
GeneralAntillesGotta shoehorn it in there to be uniform with the rest of the wiki. :P13:59
andre___GeneralAntilles, sure! please feel encouraged to change it in the wiki :)14:00
GeneralAntillesAlso, article titles should be set up like "Stock answers" not "Stock Answers" or "StockAnswers"14:00
GeneralAntillesandre___, avoiding A. Making stupid one-sided decisions and B. Stepping on toes. :D :P14:01
GeneralAntillesandre___, Look OK?14:02
andre___GeneralAntilles, yupp!14:02
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GeneralAntillesandre___, also, sign with "—~~~~" or "--~~~~"14:03
amengwhy n810 has 3 fb device? (/dev/fb0; /dev/fb1; /dev/fb2)14:03
andre___if that macro would work here, i'd use it... grumble :)14:03
GeneralAntillesWork where, the mediawiki?14:04
GeneralAntillesProbably want to add your name above mine in the members list. "# ~~~~"14:05
andre___will do14:06
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GeneralAntillesLooks good, you'll have to poke guenther about getting in on the wiki. :D14:10
GeneralAntillesand it's "" now. :<14:10
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GeneralAntillesandre___, you can change your signature nickname here:
andre___ah. hehe. yupp, sent him an email already (looks like he's not online right now)14:11
GeneralAntillesSo you don't have to do the [[User:Andre|Andre]] thing.14:11
GeneralAntillesSince the garage stuff appears to be all lowercase.14:11's always good to have people around that have a clue :-)14:13
* GeneralAntilles has done a fair bit of wikipedia editing.14:13
andre___i see... i only correct typos when i read articles :)14:15
timelessandre/x-fade/gan800: i've changed the tm links14:15
timelessbut i used a browser w/o c+p, please verify they're goood14:16
GeneralAntillesSeems fine, timeless.14:18
timelesssadly, you have to check each product14:18
timelessanyway, my battery's dead14:18
GeneralAntillesandre___, you have an easy way to do that? :P I don't fancy picking out a bug from every product to try the link.14:19
X-Fade_GeneralAntilles: Direct in the db?14:20
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GeneralAntillesOh boy14:55
rm_youwhat is it? you mom post on ITT now?14:56
* rm_you prods GeneralAntilles 14:56
* GeneralAntilles sends 240v back up rm_you's prodding rod.14:56
GeneralAntillesIt'll be interesting to see the itT reaction.14:56
rm_youlogo contest :P14:58
rm_youGeneralAntilles: you gonna enter? :P14:58
GeneralAntillesI've got nothing14:58
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crashanddie_hey, I'm having some problems with maemo mapper15:21
rm_youwhat seems to be happening?15:21
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KotCzarnykick it in the balls15:21
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KotCzarnythat should teach it not to cause problems15:21
crashanddie_crashes randomly, I get gdbm fatal: read error15:22
KotCzarnystrace it?15:22
KotCzarnysee what it tries to read?15:22
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crashanddie_kotczarny: strace?15:28
crashanddie_package ?15:28
Khertanis there a strace package that can be use on device ?15:29
rm_youis that error immediately after you run it?15:29
KotCzarnyi just compiled one myself15:29
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rm_youKhertan: yes15:29
KotCzarnyit's not a big util15:29
rm_youlemmie see what package i got it from15:29
KotCzarnyprobably from a strace package :)15:29
rm_youits like15:30
rm_youone of those *util packages15:30
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rm_youpffft ok so maybe it is just strace :P15:31
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* lcuk ponders15:33
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Atarii1337 o clock15:34
GeneralAntillesInteresting, when did the Fremantle and Harmattan TMs get added?15:34
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aquatix14:34:30        Atarii | 1337 o clock15:39
aquatixAtarii: your clock is off ;)15:39
KotCzarny40 already15:40
mbufis there another package that providves linux-libc-dev in maemo?15:43
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hrhrhi. anybody have kismet on OS2008?15:54
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Mikhoah, haven't eaten kismet for a long time...15:57
Atariifinally got canola2 working15:59
Atariithis is sweeeet15:59
aquatixAtarii: looks good eh? :)16:02
Atariisure does16:02
Atariishame ive only got a 77016:02
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mbuflinux-kernel-headers in chinook are 2.6.16.osso11-1, but, the installed kernel is 2.6.21-omap1; is the numbering not related?16:24
KotCzarnyyou are misinformed16:25
KotCzarnykernel is
KotCzarnysame for installed kernel16:26
KotCzarnyare you running chinook?16:26
mbufKotCzarny, OS2008 flashed image on N80016:26
KotCzarny2.6.16 seems very old16:26
KotCzarnywhat revision?16:26
mbufKotCzarny, "uname -a" returns "Linux Nokia-N800-51-3 2.6.21-omap1 #2 Fri Dec 7 11:17:13 EET 2007 armv6l unknown"16:27
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KotCzarnythen you are browsing old sources tree16:28
mbuf/etc/apt/sources.list on device has "deb chinook free non-free extras"16:28
* mbuf goes to check the N81016:28
crashanddie_this is what I get from the strace during the maemo-mapper crash:
lcuknokia internet: serious business ;)16:31
GeneralAntillesAh, Ari.16:31
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mbufin N810, "uname -a" gives "Linux Nokia-N810-50-2 2.6.21-omap1 #2 Fri Dec 7 11:17:13 EET 2007 armv6l unknown"16:32
mbufKotCzarny, and linux-kernel-headers installed is 2.6.16-osso11-116:32
lcukcrashanddie, your widget dimensions are negative, are you sure you are not using complex numbers as a coordinate system or a 4 dimensional display?16:32
trickielcuk: yeah just read that16:33
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mbufwhat should be the /etc/apt/sources.list ?16:33
Atariilol my dads response to me showing him canola2 "It looks like an Apple"16:33
crashanddie_lcuk... I'm just trying to use maemo mapper... I'm just looking at maps here16:34
KotCzarnymbuf: definitely there is a newer one available for chinook16:34
lcuktrickie, sounds very similar to the rumblings i heard at ltag, it shouldnt be a problem for some things (drivers/telecoms software) but for regular joe blow apps it should be open and shared :)16:34
lcukcrashanddie, are you situated inside a blckhole?16:34
mbufKotCzarny, ok16:34
trickiei don't know if some of the quotes were accurate, but i don't need to be 'educated' in proprietary / intellectual property / corporate ways of things16:34
KotCzarnydon't remember tree name though16:35
lcuktrickie, if you dont think you need to be educated, then you havent been educated enough ;)16:35
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lcukcrashed and died again?16:36
crashanddie_I wondered what the small X was in xchat16:36
AStormmy mkfs.jffs2 segfaults when I give it -X lzo16:37
crashanddie_so... never had this problem, anyone ?16:38
X-Fade_Weee another great post from Darius :)16:38
trickielcuk: i actually thought that some of the those quotes came across as condesending... we are not stupid, we know they way things work, doesn't mean we should agree and play along regardless16:38
trickielcuk: but thats my personal opinion i guess16:38
GeneralAntillesAri is an interesting fellow.16:39
GeneralAntilles23-14 is out16:39
lcukno i agree trickie, i think this release and the shitstorm of a backlash from developers may make them see we arent children16:39
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lcukthey already know they cant just take a product and do it all themselves and expect the community to follow (it says as much in the article) but i think we will find the common ground.16:40
* pupnik_ checks his widget dimensions16:41
pupnik_phew, not negative16:41
* lcuk puts pupnik on a lowcarb widget diet16:41
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lcukif i make negative widgets my sketches just invert \o/16:41
trickielcuk: yeah for sure... and i can see their point of view... being a mega corporation competing with other mega corporations they have to do some things by their rules... but as an individual i think their way is wrong (DRM, intellectual property as it stands today)16:42
trickielcuk: i don't need no education :)16:42
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mbufcan anyone post their /etc/apt/sources.list for the N810?16:43
lcukwe don't need no thought control?16:43
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* lcuk is still learning.16:44
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trickielcuk: right on!16:51
trickiembuf: those sources look correct to me16:52
mbuftrickie, ok16:52
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trickiembuf: the line you pasted above i mean16:53
mbuftrickie, but, i don't understand the header and kernel version mis-match; or they have just different release numbers?16:53
AStormok guys16:53
AStormmaybe you'll know16:53
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AStormwhere do I get usr/initramfs_data.o?16:54
mbuftrickie, shows 2.6.1616:54
trickiembuf: yes thats right... the headers are not always in synch with the kernel version16:54
mbuftrickie, thanks16:55
Khertanlcuk > still here ?16:56
AStormok, *where* do I get usr/initramfs_data.o?16:56
AStormit doesn't want to be made ;P16:56
AStormok, could someone make that file available to me? ;P16:57
AStormjust broke my kernel dir then ;P16:57
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Italodanceummm guys my yahoo email can be default on email box?16:59
lcukkhertan, just about17:00
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Khertanhumm ... it s about your video ...17:01
lcuk:) indeed17:01
Khertani don't see very well as ... youtube is youtube17:02
* lcuk :)s about it every day17:02
Khertankinetic scrolling is nice17:02
AStormKotCzarny: do you have usr/initramfs_data.o for me?17:02
Khertanbut i think this is just the surface of the iceberg17:02
AStormsomehow, it's unmakeable17:02
KotCzarnyastorm: mm?17:02
mbufKotCzarny, what needs to be added to /etc/apt/sources.list to get that repo?17:02
bedboiany news about diablo?17:03
Khertanis there some docs/example/explanation/description about this somewhere ?17:03
KotCzarnymbuf: it's the same as chinook one17:03
AStormactually, initramfs_data.S17:03
KotCzarnyjust followed my bookmark17:03
AStormI've erased it by accident17:03
AStormfrom 2.6.21-nokia patched17:03
KotCzarnyastorm: bad bad astorm17:03
mbufKotCzarny, but, i did apt-get update, and it still said that 2.6.16 is the latest one that is installed17:03
AStormKotCzarny: yeah, bad17:04
KotCzarnyremove kernel-headers17:04
AStormand I don't want to untar the whole kernel for it17:04
KotCzarnyget kernel-source17:04
lcukkhertan, ill be back from work at around 6pm, at the moment im in vnc and its jumpy, ill have a proper chat with you then and maybe give you a better example :)17:04
KotCzarnyastorm: let me check my kernel source17:05
Khertanhum ... i ll be in the train at 18:00pm :)17:05
Khertanand haven't still not found how to reinstall rtcomm17:05
KotCzarnyinitramfs_data.S          x   102417:05
KotCzarnythis one?17:05
AStormjust trying out 2.6.21+cfs17:08
KotCzarnythat would be 5EUR17:08
AStormKotCzarny: aaaaah!17:08
AStormno, I don't have any on me17:08
KotCzarnypity, now i have to take your arm17:08
mbufKotCzarny, i don't want the sources, i only want the header files17:08
KotCzarnymbuf: what can i say17:09
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KotCzarnyprobably no one bothered to update the headers package :)17:09
mbufKotCzarny, i understand the sources have the header files17:09
mbufKotCzarny, ok17:09
KotCzarnymaybe sdk tree have newer one17:09
AStormmbuf: make install_headers17:09
mbufAStorm, KotCzarny ok17:10
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AStorm"You have to traverse the filesystem metadata to determine the RAID-Z geometry."17:11
AStormwhat a load17:11
AStormyou can just check block boundaries17:11
lcukKhertan, ill be around from 6-730 tonight then from very late, im off out drinking tonight17:11
trickiembuf: why do you want a new kernel-headers? thats the kernel -> userland interface, really changes17:12
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KotCzarnytrickie, .16 and .21 is quite a jump17:12
mbuftrickie, inotify-tools requires linux-libc6-dev on desktop, for packaging; in Maemo it is linux-kernel-headers package; it is there, just that the version numbering is different :)17:13
AStormtrickie: no, it often changes17:13
AStorme.g. .16 didn't have CLOCK_MONOTONIC17:13
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mbufor i can package linux-kernel-headers with the latest ones, and submit it17:13
KotCzarnyi bet dpkg-buildpackage prepares kernel, modules and headers debs17:14
lcukcyas later folks \o kot, get some sleep or breakfast whichever time it is17:14
trickiefair enough17:15
KotCzarnybreakfast done17:15
KotCzarnysleep, soon17:15
trickieit doesn't change too often though17:15
trickiebut yes 16 -> 21 is a jump17:15
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AStormKotCzarny: what do I need for TWL4030 driver to build?17:38
AStormjust selecting TWL4030_CORE means compile failure17:38
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AStormKotCzarny: alternatively, gimme n800defconfig17:42
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trickieAStorm: what kernel version?17:46
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andre___does MicroB support quirks mode?17:46
AStormahha, need 2430 support for some reason17:46
AStormandre___: sure it does, like gecko17:47
andre___hmm, thanks (just trying to find out the reason for a bug)17:47
trickieAStorm: pfff, sorry, i turned my PC off on my way out this morning... don't have the sources17:47
AStormnow, having both 2420 and 2430 defined, I get *a lot* of foo redefined17:48
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AStormwhich one is N810?17:48
trickiewell the 800 is 242017:49
AStormso n810 is that too17:49
trickiecould be the 243017:49
qwerty12I assume 810 would be 2420 = OMAP242017:49
AStormthen why twl4030 support doesn't build on 2420?17:50
trickieyeah its 242017:51
qwerty12f**k epson with their POS S1D1374517:51
trickieAStorm: twl4030 is for 2430 yeah?17:52
AStormmy mistake then17:52
trickieim not sure...17:53
trickiebut i don't ever remeber seeing that for my n80017:53
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AStormsound/built-in.o: In function `tsc2102_set_samplerate':17:58
AStormlast.c:(.text+0x157fc): undefined reference to `__raw_writew'17:58
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dnearyAnyone know how karma gets calculated?17:58
dnearyI don't "favourite" stuff (is that a verb?)17:58
dnearybut I get a lot of karma for blog, discussion, groups and wikicreates (weird that it's only creates that count)17:59
dnearyOooh - just missed bergie17:59
Khertani don't know how it s calculated18:00
Khertani thought i get too many karma ... :)18:00
Khertan9th ... :)18:01
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AStormok, I screwed up18:06
AStormtouchpad doesn't work18:06
AStormKotCzarny: care to give me that n800defconfig?18:06
AStormit booted, which is good18:07
AStormnow I need to charge the battery and replace kernel modules with newer ones18:07
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Khertani hope we will get the 2430OMAP with a wired video out in the next IT :
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eichii want to have a iphone18:18
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Khertanwhy to be able to buy an application to do copy / paste ?18:20
Atariiwhats the name of the program which eats cpu on 2008? media scanner one18:21
t_s_oheh, im partial to say to hell with copy/paste if it behaves like it does on the os08 these days...18:21
johnxAtarii, metalayer-crawler ?18:21
t_s_owhen i want to mark something, its almost impossible. but half the time i want to just move stuff around, i mark it instead...18:21
qwerty12Talking about copy and paste, how do I stop my computer from copying texts from convos in xchat randomly?18:23
Atariidoesnt xchat have the highlight -> copy method?18:23
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qwerty12It probably does, but how do I turn it off?!? :P. It drives me crazy lol18:24
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AStormcan't use scp or sftp with dropbear18:26
AStormwho made that piece of junk?18:26
qwerty12Out of curiosity, using the initfs ssh?18:27
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AStormqwerty12: yes18:28
AStormok, so how do I copy a few files? (actually, dropbear keys)18:28
johnxwait, doesn't dropbear have scp?18:29
johnxI thought it did...18:29
Khertanqwerty12 > sudo apt-get remove xchat && apt-get update && apt-get install irssi18:29
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qwerty12I'm not so keen on irssi :)18:30
qwerty12johnx, iirc it does, it's a symlink to the dropbear binary18:30
Khertani ll come back to home ...18:30
Khertanbye bye18:30
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qwerty12AStorm, Copying from the device to computer or from computer to device?18:31
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AStormthere's no netcat in initfs :/18:32
qwerty12fanoush gave me this:
qwerty12(It's to send the entire rootfs though, modify the command)18:32
AStormah, the other way ;P18:32
AStormssh from device to my machine18:32
qwerty12Well, if it works...18:33
AStorm-sh: ssh: not found - it doesn't18:33
qwerty12well, apt-get install openssh-client on your computer then :p18:33
qwerty12or whatever package thing you use18:33
AStormit's initfs18:33
qwerty12it runs on the COMPUTER18:33
AStormI want to copy from device to the compute18:33
Atariianyone running 2008HE?18:34
AStormah, that one, yes18:34
qwerty12Well, I ran that on the computer and I got my N800's rootfs in a tar on my computer so I assume it safely works18:34
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AStormok, now I have it18:35
johnxAStorm, so you can access the rootfs? if so, chroot into it and use tools from there18:35
AStormfor some reason, I get a crash when fully booting18:35
AStormmaybe I need fsck.jffs2 ;P18:35
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AStormor maybe... there is another possible reason18:36
qwerty12jffs2 does its own checks on bootup18:36
qwerty12and reboots if the partition is fucked and fixes it18:36
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t_s_obah, i still see modest hanging around in the process list after i have closed it :(18:38
qwerty12I find it does that in diablo with no email accounts configured and without even running it once :P18:39
johnxt_s_o, do you have it set to check for mail?18:39
t_s_ojohnx: nope18:39
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AStormqwerty12: could you drop me n800defconfig?18:44
qwerty12From the normal nokia kernel-source-rx-34-
qwerty12Ok, pastebinning18:45
AStormas I have a late kernel hang18:45
AStormneed to check what causes it18:45
AStormdidn't have it with tsc2301 disabled18:45
t_s_oheh, deleting a mail and closing modest do nothing. i either have to refresh or move to another account for it to understand that yes, i have deleted that mail!18:45
AStorm(but that's a lot of stuff)18:46
AStormqwerty12: I'm waiting... :-)18:47
qwerty12AStorm, kernel-source-rx-34-
qwerty12Heh, firefox 3 crashed. (It keeps crashing for me on uploads, usually I wouldn't mind waiting but crashing when uploading a 32Kb text file essentially makes me want to kick the ff3 developers)18:48
AStormhm, diff fails on the files18:48
AStormfor some reason18:48
AStormgives me full file reference18:48
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qwerty12Have any idea what is crashing? nitro showed wlancond crashing when i made " 2.6.21-omap1-qwerty"18:49
AStormthe trick is that it's not cx3110x crashing18:50
AStormsomething else is18:50
AStormas it worked (albeit w/o touchscreen) with tsc2301 disabled18:50
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qwerty12Curse of Friday 13th?18:52
AStormmaybe ;P18:52
qwerty12heh, just out of question, how come you aren't using nokia_2420_defconfig? Works for me (but then again, I'm just compiling 2.6.21)18:53
AStormok, now I know why the crash is there18:55
AStormit *is* due to cx3110x18:55
AStormactually, made the PREEMPT kernel18:55
AStormwhile cx is built for non-PREEMPT18:55
AStormkernel noticed it too late ;P18:56
qwerty12Ooh, PREEMPT never worked on 2.6.21 either, would make mce shutdown my N80018:56
AStormfunny how it worked w/o TSC230118:58
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AStormat least we now know what fails with PREEMPT18:58
AStormpity I can't use 2.6.26-omap18:58
AStormit'd work great, if not for that Conexant chip18:58
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eichiare there (dis-)advantages using ext2 or vfat on the SD-cards?18:59
AStormvfat is the default18:59
AStormboth hit the first disk block hard18:59
AStormso performance is lowered18:59
AStormother than that, ext2 should be faster than vfat due to it dispersing data over whole device19:00
eichican i use ext2 for intern and extern card? or only extern?19:01
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qwerty12on both if you wish19:02
||cwSD cards already write-level, which disperses data, so performance won't be different for that reason, but ext is more efficient that fat19:02
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AStormwhee, it seems it didn't crash19:05
AStorm||cw: no, it will be19:05
AStormSD is block-levelled19:05
AStormso, if one block is hit hard many times, write is slower19:06
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AStormtouchpad still not responding19:07
AStormmust've forgot a driver19:07
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crashanddiedjeezus, why the hell does maemo mapper randomly crash ?19:09
FreekyfrogyDoes anyone know a retail store that carries the n800/n810 physically in the store?19:09
Freekyfrogybest buy's no help, they only sell it online -_-19:09 to be found in Helsinki, Finland and Tampere, Finland. ;>19:09
AtariiPcworld in the UK19:10
FreekyfrogyI'm in the US19:10
crashanddieFreekyfrogy, "living in the US" isn't a given, they all had valid answers :P19:10
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FreekyfrogyI know19:10
Freekyfrogysorry for not clarifying19:10
eichiare there other "pimp" thinks i can do with my sd card? block size etc?19:10
crashanddiehey, eichi19:11
crashanddieeichi, I saw on google (#maemo logs), that you at one point had a problem with maemo mapper... "gdbm fatal: read error" ?19:11
crashanddieeichi, I have the exact same problem, no clue where to find help19:12
eichiyeah, now i have 2 new high-end sd cards19:12
eichitoday i got them19:12
Atariialthough whilst on the subject, PcWorld describes it as a "Nokia 810 GSM Internet Tablet"19:12
AtariiGSM :S19:12
qwerty12crashanddie, maybe sd cards are corrupt19:12
crashanddieqwerty12, it's the internal memory19:12
eichicrashanddie, ext2 ?19:12
qwerty12crashanddie, N810?19:12
eichitry fsck.ext219:13
crashanddiethe internal memory on the n810 is fat, no ?19:13
eichiand you have to remount the card after every boot19:13
qwerty12crashanddie, Have you ever reformatted it? Nokia made a boo boo at the factory.19:13
crashanddieqwerty12, yeah, I had to, at one point it was read-only19:13
qwerty12Hmm, I'd shove in an external mmc and move the maps and change the location of the map storage in maemo mapper and see if the same message still occurs.19:14
crashanddiedon't have a sd card :(19:14
crashanddiedon't have access to mini/micro ones atm19:14
crashanddienever got around buying one19:14
crashanddiecan I fsck.fat on it while it's mounted ?19:15
qwerty12no but running umount on it is no problem19:15
AStormhmm, and now it crashed19:15
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crashanddieFree cluster summary wrong (157259 vs. really 158475)19:16
AStormoh, and now it didn't19:16
eichii head thousends of errors you can use -y19:16
eichito auto correct19:16
AStormmaybe the device needs a reboot after flashing kernel ;P19:17
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eichicrashanddie, do you have good sdcards or only noname cheap ones?19:17
Freekyfrogyisn't the cheapest you can get a 32gb sd card for is like $200?19:18
crashanddie(crashanddie) don't have a sd card :(19:18
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crashanddieFreekyfrogy, $800 more like it19:18
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FreekyfrogyI've seen online for like 200 or 25019:18
AStormSD != microSD19:18
AStormthere are no 32G microSD yet19:19
crashanddieminisd sucks :(19:19
eichievery time i go to the external sd card with default file browser i get the message "unable to open" but it opens19:19
AStormcrashanddie: minisd is nonexistent19:19
AStormmicrosd sucks, yes19:20
eichii have to sd-cards sanDisk extreme III 4 and 8GB19:20
Freekyfrogydoes microsd go up to 8gb, or only 4?19:20
FreekyfrogyI have a 2gb microsd card19:21
crashanddieFreekyfrogy, 819:21
Freekyfrogyand a 2gb sd card19:21
Freekyfrogyok, thanks19:21
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AStormcx3110x didn't load because of diff version magic19:22
AStormneed to rebuild it ;P19:22
Freekyfrogy32gb sd for 20019:22
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AStormand I fail again, forgot to rebuild btrfs too19:25
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crashanddieFreekyfrogy, 8gb microsd comes around $5019:26
darkblue_Bhello- Day 2 of the N800.. things are going well!19:27
darkblue_BMay I ask about the streaming web cam thing.. where can I find out about how to set that up?19:27
qwerty12search itt for gstmpeg19:27
infobotrumour has it, itt is the forums on ( )19:27
crashanddieFreekyfrogy, though, the 16gb are available too, they come around $10019:28
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johnxdarkblue_B, or motion19:28
crashanddiewhat is is with SD cards and their weird naming convention ?19:28
crashanddieSD, then SDHC, for High Capacity19:28
crashanddiethen, soon, we'll have SDSHC, for Super High Capacity19:29
||cwwhy is that weird19:29
qwerty12x11vnc takes ages to compile :(19:29
crashanddiein 2 years, SDSMGREBHC for Super Mega Really Enormously Big High Capacity19:29
qwerty12Soon, they'll be so small, I can hide them in my "Kulli":p19:30
||cwcrashanddie: I think it'll take more than a couple years to get 2TB sd cards19:30
dnearyBrings me back to the days of my youth19:31
darkblue_Bhmm Google only shows 5 hits for gstmpeg.. some other name?19:31
dneary360k floppies, then 720k HD floppies, and finally 1440k DD floppies19:31
crashanddiebtw, does anyone ever thought about microsd == microfilms in spy movies ?19:31
dnearydarkblue_B: It's a gstreamer plug-in?19:32
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crashanddieLike, one microfilm could hold thousands of billions of bits of data19:32
dnearyIt'll be in gstreamer-plugins-good19:32
AStorm/mnt/devel/cx3110x-module-src-2.0.15/src/sm_drv.c:498: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘skb_reset_mac_header’19:32
AStormam I missing something?19:32
qwerty12my bad, it's gstmpjg:
||cwdneary: 720 was DD, 1.4M was HD19:32
darkblue_Bqwerty12: aha19:33
dneary||cw: I though DD was double density, and HD was high density?19:33
||cwdneary: yes, in this case high is more than double19:33
dnearyFunny that19:33
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qwerty12Funny how abbreviations change over time...19:34
darkblue_Bok! Day 2, Apache19:34
crashanddieqwerty12 & eichi: maemo-mapper still crashes from read error after fsck'ing it... I guess I'll have to find a microsd card and check from there19:34
* darkblue_B dislikes apache actually19:34
||cw"high" for SD is also at least double, so i don't see how it's different19:35
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darkblue_Bhmmm unable to install httpd.. both of the new versions19:40
AStormok, hacked around it ;P19:41
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darkblue_Bunable to *update* httpd... it *is* in installed apps.. ok19:42
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AStormnow I' getting a working whit screen19:48
AStormpower button displays the power menu nicely19:48
AStormhm, not anymore19:49
AStormI suspect my hacked cx3110x is not good enough19:49
qwerty12Sounds like hildon-desktop isn't starting19:50
darkblue_Bhmmm httpd is not happy19:50
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darkblue_Bthe package httpd needs to be reinstalled, but I cant find the package for it19:52
darkblue_Bsomething is screwy19:52
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darkblue_Bapt-get remove cant figure out how to remove the httpd .deb19:55
darkblue_Bis there some way I can help it figure that out?19:55
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darkblue_BI know wherer the .deb file is19:56
Atariiwow this female-female usb adapter is cheap
Atariiis that what i need for a 770 power injector?19:56
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||cwAtarii: you'd have to cut it open, or cut a cable open, to inject the power19:57
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Atariiyea im thinking that with a y-splitter cable19:58
Atariiother end connected to the power19:58
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||cwhm, do you have to cross the data wires, or does host mode do that for you19:59
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qwerty12RST38h, Ever got round to packaging up Slide Rule? :)20:00
Atarii||cw im not sure, need someone who has already done it20:01
Atariithink Freekyfrogy has, but he just left20:02
||cwI've seen some howto's20:02
Atariiyea ive read them, but there are so many different ways20:02
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Atariiim trying to go down the non-solder route as much as possible20:02
||cwgood luck with that20:02
Atariilol thanks20:03
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lardmanThat is quite possibly the longest email reply I've ever had to write20:03
qwerty12lardman, may I offer congratulations for managing?20:04
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lardmanI'm not actually managing any more than anyone else, we just thought we should work out how to work out who should manage20:04
qwerty12Holy crap, I know what you mean by the longest, I just did a quick skim :/20:05
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lardmanwell I thought I should at least try to answer20:06
lardmanignoring people is rude, but I'm not sure I can handle another one of those20:07
inheritedHey, does anybody have Archlinux and Xephyr running?20:07
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darkblue_Bapt-get now stops and complains about a broken httpd .. but cant remove it20:09
darkblue_Bit appears I have a bg problem20:09
darkblue_Bbecause apt-get wont continue20:09
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AStormthe driver is spewing unknown symbols at me20:15
AStormlike, spi_sync20:15
AStormwhich are there and known I think20:16
AStormah right20:17
AStormNokia hacked the kernel some more20:17
AStormthe symbols are GPL20:17
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AStormah no20:17
AStormmy hack vs version magic failed20:18
AStormI'll better just change the version to the original one20:18
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AStormyay, it's alive!20:25
qwerty12Brilliant :)20:25
AStormlooks like debouncing of screen is a bit broken20:26
AStormtoo dependent on scheduler screwups apparently20:26
AStormit's too sensitive now20:26
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summatusmentisI feel like living in the boonies sort of defeats the purpose of an internet tablet, when wifi is hard to come by on a regular basis20:27
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johnxsummatusmentis, hence, wimax20:27
eichi"unable to open" if i go to the mmcs with filrbrowser20:27
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summatusmentisjohnx: that assumes the US market isn't going to screw up wi-max like it has broadband, and put it where there is already infinitely better net connectivity20:28
AStormany drags on the touchscreen don't work20:28
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johnxsummatusmentis, well, it'll be interesting to watch :)20:28
AStormwhy the hell don't these work ;P20:29
summatusmentisI'm hoping it actaully becomes fully rolled out, then I'll be excited20:29
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andre___*sigh*  some people on maemo-developers mailing list don't seem to understand how that internet thingy works. time to watch soccer instead of sending another useless reply mail...20:29
summatusmentiswhat is this internet you speak of?20:30
RST38bisthey do not?20:30
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AStormok, I think the debounce time is too short20:32
AStormand that thing is in Xomap, not the kernel20:32
AStormfunny how with CFS everything is loading and working *much* faster20:33
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AStormthat debounce thing is mad20:34
AStormneed to get at it20:34
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AStormhm, sound doesn't work, maybe I need to do something ;P20:35
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AStormlike, build ALSA into kernel ;P20:35
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summatusmentisAStorm: what're you working on?20:37
lardmanandre___: tell me about it20:37
lardmanandre___: interesting reply he's sent now20:37
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AStormsummatusmentis: 2.6.21+cfs20:38
AStormthe new CPU scheduler20:38
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andre___lardman, interesting - i come to think that he actually believes what he writes. wasn't sure before :)20:38
lcukcool, next week we reply to dev threads as tweets :D i look foreward to it, it will save my fingers20:39
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johnxlcuk, that's a 140 char limit, right?20:41
johnxabout the same as txt messages?20:41
lcukit is the same isnt it - and with the point being you could eventually (/can now) twitter from mobiles20:42
eichisomeone uses ext2 intern and extern without problems?20:42
AStormeichi: it worked here20:42
eichiAStorm, you dont get any unable to open dialoges?20:43
AStormI did, easy to fix20:43
AStormfix mmc-mount script20:43
VeggenHmm. I'm porting over my fixed line numbers to asterisk. Now, I'll have three external numbers on my asterisk. I need to start playing with interesting services ;)20:44
AStormNokia really had to screw that one up20:44
AStorminstead of using fstab as they should be20:44
eichii changed the fstab settings a bit20:44
AStormnah, mmc-mount is the script they use to mount mmcs20:44
AStorm(and so does udev)20:44
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||cwsince the cards are optional, having then fstab doens't make sense20:47
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AStormthen their mmc-mount script needs less vfat and more auto20:48
AStormfor some reason, usb module is referring to aic3320:50
summatusmentisoh ffs, I need an email client that can read my mind, and just attach the files I want to attach20:50
RST38biscf: fstab contains  a lot of optional stuff20:50
lardmanandre___: shame his OT ranting has stopped people from actually replying to the question20:51
summatusmentisI _always_ screw up, and send the original email without attaching what I need ot20:51
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infobotsummatusmentis meant: I _always_ screw up, and send the original email without attaching what I need to20:51
eichiAStorm, is therewhere a tutorial. thread or something? i want to change my mount script20:52
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andre___lardman, right... the classic poisonous people problem :-(20:54
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Atariii think there's an addon for thunderbird which will check if you have typed "I have attatched..." and then tell you if you havnt attached anything20:59
eichiAStorm, can you give me a grep mount /usr/sbin/mount ?20:59
eichiAtarii, yes there is, you can add words you would use, if you do an attachmend21:00
summatusmentisAtarii: really?!?21:00
* summatusmentis checks21:00
AStormeichi: mmc-mount21:00
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RST38bis666 666 666!21:00
eichiAStorm, that is, what i mean :P21:01
AStormwhat for?21:01
AStormit's just a mount line21:01
Freekyfrogyhey guys21:01
lcukheh lardman - darius talking about overlords running the show:  looks like he has run into google groups limits on number of groups he can create.21:01
lcukhe is trying to ink an agreement in person with google :D21:03
Freekyfrogyhey, is there any reason why a usb hard drive would not work with an internet tablet?21:03
lcukwhich tablet and is it powered?21:03
johnxFreekyfrogy, the one I can think of is power requirements21:03
Freekyfrogythe n80021:03
Freekyfrogyyeah, that makes sense21:04
eichithe way the nokia maemo mounts a device, shows me, that there _is_ a way to f**k linux up21:04
Freekyfrogycould you use a solid state drive?21:04
konttori_eichi: what do you mean?21:04
Freekyfrogyor a flash drive even.21:04
lcukUSB OTG supplies at maximum 100ma to devices, as long as the device uses less than this (which a proper otg device should) and you have drivers for it, then there is no reason why you can't run anything from the usb21:04
AStormFreekyfrogy: if you add a powered hub, it should work21:04
johnxHmm...(idle question) Does maemo actually handle drive automounting differently than most current desktop distros21:05
eichikonttori_, linux uses the fstab for mounting options21:05
AStormjohnx: it does21:05
konttori_otg works nicely with powered hub.21:05
AStormit doesn't use pmount, like it should21:05
AStormit uses hand-crafted scripts instead21:05
johnxAStorm, ok, then I'll agree with eichi: It's screwed up.21:05
summatusmentisAtarii: you've just saved my life21:05
RST38bisand what do scripts use?21:06
AStormplain old mount21:06
Freekyfrogyok, so just check to make sure the device runs on less than 100ma21:06
AStormwith -t vfat21:06
AStormand a bunch of options21:06
AStormFreekyfrogy: that's not enough21:06
AStormit has to be on the OTG whitelist to work by default21:06
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* lcuk is on the OTG whitelist21:07
* lcuk goes21:07
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Freekyfrogyis there any way to see what's on the whitelist?21:07
AStormyes, it's in the kernel21:07
AStormand the whitelisting can be disabled21:07
eichiRST38bis, the script do "all the steps" you do if you mount manually21:08
* Freekyfrogy thanks you21:08
eichiRST38bis, but linux has managed this easy, clear and high configurable21:08
eichibut they dont use it21:08
* Freekyfrogy does tha chicken dance21:08
AStormhmm, n800defconfig is fail21:09
RST38biseichi: can't you add the same options to fstab and use mount?21:09
Freekyfrogyoh hey, anyone know thoughtfix's email? I couldn't find it anywhere21:09
AStormRST38bis: well, he wants auto21:09
AStormI'd actually put pmount on the device21:09
eichiAStorm, now the external one works without error21:10
AStormand make udev use it21:10
eichibut where is the internal sd card mounted?21:10
AStormat /media/mmc<something>21:11
RST38bisastorm: if it is possible to create fstab entry then you can always make it auto21:11
AStormRST38bis: trick is it isn't possible21:11
AStormnot w/o major changes at least21:12
eichiAStorm, yes sorry, wrong question ;) where is the internal sd card mount script ;)21:12
RST38bislike wrapping mount into a script?21:12
AStormeichi: it's the same21:12
AStormRST38bis: no, like rewriting mmc-*21:13
RST38bisthat will understand vfat fstab entries?21:13
AStormactually, there are no fstab entries21:13
RST38biswhy do you need to rewrite mmc?21:13
AStormit has the mount command hardcoded21:13
eichihm i got the uable to open message againt21:13
AStormthe scripts are stupid junk21:14
eichibut i can create files etc on it21:14
eichimaybe only the error massage is an error21:14
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AStormok, starting from defconfig made sound work21:26
AStormtime for more haxx21:26
AStormblah, not white screen again...21:26
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AStormok, now I get crashes ;P21:30
AStormlet's see why21:30
konttori_Someone should make this work on the n810:
konttori_Wham and you have nice portable music studio.21:31
AStormhm, defconfig has MUX disabled for some reason21:31
AStormthat can't work ;P21:31
konttori_n810 usb otg might have enough juice to power that kb without powered hub21:32
konttori_at least it has enough juice to run my wireless kb21:32
johnxkonttori_, that would be pretty awesome actually21:32
johnxanyways, quick poll: How dumb of an idea is it to solicit potential FAQ entries for the wiki from ITT users? (I'm thinking of basically asking them to respond to the thread or maybe add to the FAQ page.)21:33
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lardmanlcuk_afk: lol21:37
konttori_johnx: I didn't get that.21:37
konttori_what do you mean?21:37
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RST38bissounds good enough21:38
RST38bisthe only catch is that mostt acctive itt users are all here on this  channel ;)21:38
johnxI'm thinking of making a big post on ITT "What needs to be in the FAQ?" and seeing what people say and trying to clean it up into a real FAQ21:38
konttori_Sure. makes sense to me21:38
johnxRST38bis, I aim to get the new users in on this21:38
johnxas in "What did you not know that was hard to figure out?"21:38
RST38bisjohnx, you may want to take a different approach21:39
johnxI'm open to suggestions21:40
johnxthat's why I asked here :)21:40
lcuk_afkcan i ask: at linuxtag, Kate Alhola was up with us and she is involved in the forum nokia setup - do normal users live there and bypass maemo or is it a deserted wasteland for NITs?21:40
RST38bisinstead of soliciting comments simply go through existing posts and see what popular questions are21:40
johnxRST38bis, yes, instead of having users come to me I could spend days going through forum posts21:40
RST38bisforum nokia is mostly s6021:41
AStormhmm, and now I get no sound, but it started21:41
AStormwtf is happening?21:41
konttori_lcuk_afk: forum nokia is mainly targeted for business developers21:41
RST38bisand mostly commercial devs21:41
konttori_so, the fact that maemo is having a presence there means nokia is looking to get businesses involved in maemo21:41
johnxRST38bis, if Nokia paid me, I'd be happy to, but I'm trying to strike a balance between my sanity and getting a more updated FAQ for new users :)21:41
RST38bisjohnx, not really21:42
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lcuk_afkkonttori_, i dont see anything wrong with that at all - i just have this image of one or two lonely forum posters going "hello, is anybody out there?"21:42
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RST38bisrather than waiting for days for people to come to your thread you can spend an hour looking at recent thread list21:43
konttori_at the nokia forum.. well, nokia forum is also a place to store documentation and sdks for the developers. They also have a paid subscriber section where nokia personnel are paid to find answers for whatever questions you have in mind21:43
RST38bislcuk, that is because there is no business dev for maemo21:43
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konttori_not much yet, that's true21:44
lcuk_afkmuch a shame21:44
konttori_but it's a good time to get into the game21:44
konttori_it's a growing platform21:44
konttori_good time for smaller companies to secure foothold21:44
* lcuk_afk agrees :)21:44
* RST38bis considered charging for vgba byt decided against it21:44
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AstroI just updated to latest OS200821:44
Astrowhere has netcat gone?21:45
AStorminto a separate package21:45
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mgedmintimeless: love the crypto tale!21:45
RST38biskonttori: unless there is large enough user base, there will not be commercial stuff21:45
lcuk_afkit depends upon application and awareness, if a business can find utility in these little devices which suits them then a deployment in the thousands to employees running custom software would be a nice thing21:46
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RST38bislcuk, custom software is different21:46
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lcuk_afkcustom software is just the same as regular software except its only used by a select group of individuals21:47
AStormhmm, w/o MUX sound works21:47
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lcuk_afksure, you could use my bespoke tax calc package if you like, but it will give wrong figures for your company21:47
lcuk_afk(or something...)21:48
AStormbut then, the rest of the system doesn't21:48
AStormsomething is really fishy with this kernel21:48
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lcuk_afkRST38bis, you wrote an emulator - you may not be able to charge because there are lots of other alternative emulators.  would it be such an easy decision if you have written something which didnt exist yet?21:49
lcuk_afk(or was it not an easy decision?21:49
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RST38bislcuk, to have commercial developers develop for nits you need a general app market, custom stuff exists separately21:49
AStormwho has the true defconfig for n810?21:50
AStormthe config of the default kernel21:50
RST38bislcuk, yes it would still be the same21:50
AStormnot one for n800, it's different enough (e.g. touchscreen)21:50
AStormand I don't want to be playing guess on 2^6 options21:50
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johnxhmm...very interesting that there is only an rx34 kernel source package on repository.maemo.org21:51
RST38bislcuk, I have no prroblems chharging for stuff even if there are free alternatives, as i believe my stuff is usually better :)21:51
johnxalso, I thought it was possible to compile a kernel that worked for both21:52
AStormit is21:52
AStormthe trick is I don't have the default config of n810 kernel21:52
* lcuk_afk raises a glass to that sentiment rst :)21:52
AstroAStorm: there's no nc package21:52
AStormAstro: really? I think there is21:52
AStorminstalled it myself21:52
RST38bisbut if there are only a few potential buyers then it is pointless anyway21:52
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lcuk_afkit depends on whether it gives experience or if you have other things to keep you occupied21:53
AstroAStorm: which repository?21:53
Astrooh, ?21:53
lcuk_afkwhat did i do to my nick..?21:54
AStormAstro: extras afaicr21:54
lcuk_afkanyway, i must dash i am already late21:54
RST38bislcuk: one thing that normally suffers when you go from paid to free is support thouggh21:55
AStormis gronmayer still down?21:55
RST38bisI am often forced to put request of free users to the end of todo list21:55
RST38bisrequests from21:56
johnxAStorm, seems up here21:56
RST38bisastorm: try mpa instead21:56
AStormAstro: then use gronmayer21:56
AStormRST38bis: hmmm?21:56
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RST38bisaka Pack Rat21:57
dererkHi guys!21:57
AStormah, no21:57
lcuk_afkthanks for the insight rst :)  i really must be off.  i will no doubt continue this or related at a later date21:57
AStormI don't need it ;P21:57
AStormanyway, I want the config of default n810 kernel21:57
AStormbecause 20 questions is not enough for kernel options ;P21:57
dererkdo you know of any tutorial or doc where to know how to speed a bit/disable some services from a n810 ?21:58
AStormdererk: not much to do21:58
AStormmaybe metalayer-crawler021:58
dererkthat one!21:58
dererkthat is taking me most of the cpu process top21:58
AStormhow to get both sound and system working, hmm?21:58
dererkAStorm, does it have anything to do with usb link?21:58
* lardman is unsure as to whether he should answer emails any more21:59
AStormdererk: no21:59
RST38bismay I remind you that continuous recompilatioon of linux kernel is bad for your social life?;)21:59
AStormonly with scanning media21:59
darkblue_Bok.. if anyone cares.. I unstuck the httpd package21:59
eichidoes the extended memory makes the n800 faster or is it only some kind of swap?21:59
AStormRST38bis: indeed21:59
darkblue_Bit was breaking apt-get!21:59
AstroAStorm: suddenly it's there, thank you!21:59
AStormthat's why I'm doing it only rarely21:59
dererkRST38bis, heh21:59
AStormeichi: it is swap, and it makes it faster ;P21:59
darkblue_Bthe .conf file had the authors home dir in as ServerRoot21:59
johnxdererk, it does scan any cards or usb stick you plug in21:59
johnxeichi, just swap21:59
darkblue_Ball the operations tried to stop httpd first, and got stuck22:00
dererkjohnx, uhm22:00
AStorm~lart Nokia for not giving out n810 defconfig22:00
* infobot duct-tapes Nokia to the floor and drools on him for not giving out n810 defconfig22:00
dererkthen I can't use it to read from it :/22:00
johnxdererk, hmm?22:00
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dererkjohnx, I meant that if I disabled it, I wont be able to read sticjs22:00
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johnxdererk, nope22:00
johnxall it does is *scan* for music22:00
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johnxI mean, plugging in cards/usb sticks will work fine with metalayer-crawler disabled22:01
lardmanAStorm: do they not?22:01
lardmanAStorm: is there a bug filed against that?22:01
AStormyes, they don't22:01
johnx(whoever invented suck a long name for metalayer-crawler needs to be larted...)22:01
AStormI don't think so.22:01
lardmango for it! :)22:02
RST38bisbtw, once the evil media scanner is disabled how does default player find new music?22:02
johnxRST38bis, it doesn't22:02
dererkjohnx, but I wont be able to read FROM them, would I?22:02
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johnxdererk, all it does is make a list of the music/videos on the card and display it in media player22:02
RST38bisjohnx, no manual method?22:02
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johnxRST38bis, maybe file -> open?22:03
AStormunfunny that TSC2005 doesn't build22:03
johnxor open from file manager22:03
AStormyet is required for n81022:03
lardmanRST38bis: you can open a location from the menu22:03
AStormI suspect nokia is cheating somehow22:03
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RST38bisjohnx: more like open from fm...22:03
AStorme.g. hadn't released some needed patches (the kernel source itself is not enough)22:03
RST38bislardman: ah, ok22:03
lardmanWhat's TSC2005?22:03
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AStormlardman: touchscreen chip22:04
AStormof n81022:04
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AStormn800 uses TSC2301 in that role22:04
lardmanand the kernel code won't build?22:04
lardmansumbit a bug please22:04
AStormfunny that sound doesn't work once I disable OMAP_MUX22:04
AStormwhile if I enable that, the device doesn't fully boot (dies at X)22:05
RST38bisRare male sea dragon pregnant (c)cnn22:05
lardmanAStorm: There appear to be problems, please submit a bug listing them and I trust it will be sorted out asap22:05
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johnxAStorm, what does it say as it dies?22:06
dererkjohnx, thanks22:06
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AStormI'd like Nokia to build cx3110x against 2.6.26-rc-omap22:06
lardmanAStorm: yes of course, but no bug and nothing will happen...22:06
AStormjohnx: nothing, white screen22:06
johnxAStorm, goes from printing messages to white screen?!22:06
AStormjohnx: no, it's not printing messages duh22:06
johnxwhy not?22:07
AStormI'll reenable FB and see if it still reaches X in normal setup22:07
AStorm*reenable FB console22:07
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johnxthough also, the x server draws a white screen when first launched of course...heh22:08
johnxmakes it hard to tell22:08
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AStormit doesn't die22:10
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AStormthe power button brings up the power menu sometimes22:11
AStormit hangs after X server is started22:11
PhosphoricXI'm having trouble getting my TreeViewColumn titles to show up, even in sample PyGTK scripts?22:11
PhosphoricXany ideas?22:11
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johnxAStorm, aaah...I see now22:13
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AStormok, w/o mux the eac dsptask doesn't start22:14
AStorm/dev/dsptask/pcm1 doesn't exist22:14
darkblue_Bi think this web cam thing really wants motion installed22:14
AStormor any other22:14
darkblue_BI see there is a motion on sourceforge22:15
dererkjohnx, you don't know by chance an App like gconf but to enable/disable services, do you?22:15
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darkblue_Bbut its there a maemo specific one I shuold use? search garage?22:15
dererkI've just moved/removed symlinks from runlevels and works perfect, but there are some apps I don't use I don't wont to startup automatically22:15
AStormbetter search gronmayer22:15
johnxdererk, there is one for debian, but I don't know about maemo22:15
darkblue_Bapparently yes.. garage22:16
johnxdererk, any front end you find will just be moving symlinks around22:16
* johnx sleeps22:16
dererkjohnx, I supposed so22:16
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dererkI just can't find the right ones, like telepaty22:16
dererk(or whatever it's written)22:16
AStormok, now I started DSP22:17
AStormfor some reason, it didn't start automatically...22:17
qwerty12_N800nokia have a services control panel which  uses update-rc.d22:17
qwerty12_N800night johnx22:17
dererkjohnx, g'night pal22:18
AStormok, w/o MUX dsp just crashes22:19
AStormwonder why defconfig has that off22:19
AStormuhm, I mean w/ MUX22:20
lardmanAStorm: so you have sounds now?22:20
AStormdsp kernel crashed on me22:20
lardmanstory of my life :)22:21
AStormmaybe it's related to DSP Pausing option22:21
AStormit's not there in the defconfig at all for some reason ;P22:21
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AStormI'll add more DSP debug22:22
lardmanhave you compiled the vanilla dsp_kernel?22:22
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Atariianyone know if this would be a suitable cable for 770 power injection?
darkblue_Bwell, the webcam returns the finnish word for webcam !!22:23
darkblue_BI guess thats progress22:23
darkblue_Bno pictures though22:23
qwerty12_N800I think the porter was Finnish :/22:23
AStormlardman: no22:23
AStormI'm using what nokia gave us22:24
lardmanAh, ok22:24
AStormand the damn thing crashes on me22:24
AStormfor no reason at all22:24
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lardmanwhat does it say in dmesg?22:24
AStormjust a new kernel ;P22:24
AStormnow I'll check22:24
lardmanWhat version of dsp_dld are you using?22:25
AStormseems to be up no22:25
AStormlardman: one in 2007.50 or so22:25
lardmanand does your new kernel use dspgateway 3.3.1 as opposed to 3,1?22:25
AStormchinook 4.0.122:25
AStormprobably no22:25
AStormit's 2.6.21 with nokia patchset22:25
lardmandsp_dld is dependent of the version of dspgateway (which is in the kernel mainline now iirc)22:26
lardmanso you're using the same kernel version as the standard machine?22:26
AStormwith CFS patched in22:26
lardmanok, so shouldn't be troubles from incompat code then22:26
lardmanhe says :)22:26
darkblue_Bdoh! the cgi isnt there22:26
AStormlardman: hmmm22:27
lardmanAStorm: have you tried the N800 defconfig?22:27
AStormyes, it can't work22:27
AStormn810 needs RX44 support plus more22:27
AStormTSC2005 for touchscreen among others22:27
AStormand AIC33 for audio to even build22:27
lardmanI thought all the audio stuff was done on the DSP?22:27
AStormas to DSP - I see a lot of MMU stuff going on before it dies22:28
AStormlardman: yes, but I need it for EAC to build for some reason22:28
lardmanyeah probably unmapping the shared regions22:28
AStormotherwise I get unresolved symbols22:28
lardmanso dsp_dld does work then22:28
AStormbut it crashed22:28
AStormall the devices disappeared22:28
lardmancan you see the message just before it crashes and the unmapping & remapping comes out?22:29
lardmanpolling error did you say?22:29
AStormpoll error22:29
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lardmanerror from omapdsp ?22:29
AStormanother thing is even with my build hack, TSC2005 works erratically22:30
lardmanI see that if I crash the dsp kernel, but I can't think why you should get it22:30
AStormas in, no debounce22:30
lardmanAStorm: no idea, sorry22:30
AStormlardman: I don't know either22:30
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lardmanAStorm: do you start the dsp + dsp_dld in the usual way (using the Nokia init.d scripts)?22:31
AStormit did start at the system startup, so yes22:31
AStormbut crashed after using mplayer22:31
AStormthe system startup sound didn't play either22:31
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lardmanoh, so the dsp crashes after using mplayer?22:31
AStormno, on any sound22:31
lardmanyeah, well that's not so unexpected22:32
AStormwth EAC requires AIC33 here?22:32
lardmanyou have gstreamer setup?22:32
AStormwell, the default setup hopefully22:32
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lardmanas in you built an image or you just flashed a new kernel on top of the existing rootfs?22:33
lardmanok fine, rules out lots of stuff then22:33
AStormexisting and *working with original kernel* rootfs22:33
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AStormso the crash is 100% kernel-related22:33
AStormtrick is, I can't see what broke22:34
lardmancool, just trying to work out where you are22:34
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AStormhow do I canonically restart the dsp_dld?22:34
lardmanjust run dsp_dld at the term22:34
lardmanrun "dsp_dld -p" to stop it daemonising22:35
AStormneed to give it a path to config file (/lib/dsp/dsp_dld_avs.conf, right?)22:35
lardmanwell if you symlink /lib/dsp/dsp_dld_avs.conf to dsp_dld.conf you can just run the command alone22:36
lardmanas the latter is the default name; that's what I do anyway to avoid too much typing22:37
AStormno problem with spelling it out22:37
AStormtrick is... it just got poll error22:37
AStormand sent SIGBUS22:37
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lardmanI can't work out what's with the poll errors either22:38
lardmanthe worst thing from my point of view is that if the kernel can't poll a task (different type of polling, the other is ARM->DSP) it causes a bus error in the dsp kernel!22:38
AStormeven changing the volume throws in a poll error22:38
AStormyou say... can't poll a task...22:39
AStormcan this be related to a scheduler change?22:39
AStormor lack of IPC namespaces?22:39
lardmanyeah, the dsp kernel polls each dsp task; the ARM kernel also polls the DSP kernel (my understanding anyway)22:39
lardmanSo this is the same kernel code, just that you lack a defconfig?22:40
AStormI'll try enabling DMA drain to see if that help22:40
AStormlardman: close to same22:40
darkblue_BI dunno.. cgis return no error.. but no image.. enough for now22:40
AStormit's same code with CFS backport thrown in22:40
lardmanAStorm: patches? But not to the ARM kernel DSP stuff?22:41
AStormno, not to the ARM DSP stuff22:41
AStormI've just added DVFS support to have extra debug22:41
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lardmanAStorm: It's probably some defconfig option then, I'd be surprised if it's a lack in the kernel source22:41
AStormtrick is, this defconfig is missing some options22:42
AStormas it stands22:42
AStormtotally missing22:42
lardmanAStorm: Otherwise you'll have to add printks to the ARM DSP stuff - time consuming22:42
lardmanAStorm: stick in a bug, please22:42
AStormabout lack of n810 defconfig?22:42
AStormwhich page?22:43
lardmanperhaps without the s22:43
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inzAStorm, if defconfig was missing applicable options, make would ask questions22:46
AStormand it does22:47
inzAre you still trying to get newer kernel running?22:47
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AStormcurrently, 2.6.21, but +CFS22:49
AStormit is running except sound22:49
AStorm(actually, DSP crashes)22:50
AStormlardman: I'll check if 2.6.21-nokia w/o CFS also shows these DSP crashes22:50
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lardmanAStorm: cool22:50
AStormif it doesn't, I guess the culprit is nokia doing task polling in a wrong way22:50
lardmannot task, dsp polling22:51
lardmanas you will only have made changes to the arm kernel22:51
lardmanbut even then I'd be surprised, as it withstands cpufreq & dyntick22:52
qwerty12_N800My q is that if this is just nokia kernel with Cfs (which i understand to be cryptfs), then why is dsp messing up? (unless this isn't nokia kernel?). Just curious...22:54
AStormlardman: but it may withstand them only due to some heavy hack22:55
AStormwhich may not work under CFS22:55
lardmanAStorm: yep, I'm interested to see what you find22:56
lardmanqwerty12_N800: That is the $64,000 question22:56
AStormhm, DVFS doesn't boot, at all ;P22:57
qwerty12_N800lardman, £120,000 please! :p. Nah, I've added in unionfs etc w/out any problems, just wondering why a simple thing like a fs would mess with dsp22:57
lardmanqwerty12_N800: exchange rate goes the other way thank God (otherwise my trip next month would be very very expensive) ;)22:58
AStormqwerty12_N800: not FS, dummy22:58
AStormCFS is the CPU scheduler22:58
qwerty12_N800oh! I saw cryptfs as first google result :/22:59
lardmanAStorm: ah, I made the same mistake22:59
AStormgoogle Completely Fair Scheduler then22:59
qwerty12_N800lardman, heh22:59
* lardman punishes himself with 10min extra DSP programming22:59
* qwerty12_N800 just shrugs22:59
qwerty12_N800Anyway, hope you sort out the cfs stuff, current one sucks balls.23:00
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AStormit works, almost ;P23:01
AStormexcept that DSP crashes and touchscreen sucks balls ;P23:01
AStormthis ball sucking is possibly due to debounce not working23:01
AStormI see hacks piled on hacks piled on hacks23:02
qwerty12_N800If you ever get round releasing your current work, I wouldn't mind trying it out on n800 ( different touchscreen iirc)23:02
AStormNokia would do us best by switching to 2.6.26-omap once that it out23:02
AStormqwerty12_N800: well, just apply the CFS patch23:02
AStormgoes in almost cleanly23:03
AStormthe minor rejects can be easily fixed by hand23:03
qwerty12_N800Thanks, I'll try tomorrow (hello weekend)23:03
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* qwerty12_N800 has pins and needles in me left arm. I blame my n800.23:05
lardmanJust spotted a schoolboy error in my DSP code23:05
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qwerty12_N800Detention for you lardman23:06
AStormsleep more23:06
AStormdetention, you work your whole weekend on DSP code23:06
lardmanqwerty12_N800: that would be great, a whole hour with nothing to do but read :)23:07
lardmanAStorm: yeah, but problems like these are moreish - I find it hard to go to bed while my brain is buzzing23:07
qwerty12_N800Heh, wish my school detentions were like that :p23:07
lardmanstill early here anyway23:07
lardmanqwerty12_N800: My school prep was like that - I've never read so many books, was great23:07
AStormwell, enabling DMA flush got me a white screen23:08
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AStormI'll try again w/o MUX23:09
lardmanAStorm: have you tried running a kernel built with the n800 defconfig?23:09
AStormyes, it wouldn't boot ;P23:10
AStormneed RX44 support ;P23:10
lardmanAStorm: I seem to remember seeing reference in the initial dmesg of the newer touch screen driver23:10
AStormother than that, touchscreen and keyboard wouldn't work23:10
lardmanoh, well that rules that out then23:10
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AStormI need a phyical reset button23:11
AStormand a USB cable with a toggle ;P23:11
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AStormalso, a power supply with a switch23:12
AStormas to tsc2005 not working correctly - it happens in default maemo too23:14
AStormunless you renice Xomap to 023:14
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AStorm(though is much less pronounced)23:14
AStormI think tsc2005 isn't debounced at all23:14
AStormand they didn't notice it23:15
AStormbecause old scheduler rescheduled it not often enough23:15
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AStormI get multiple "clicks" per one23:16
AStormand dragging doesn't work at all ;P23:16
AStormok, found one minor race condition in irq handler already23:19
AStormfirst sets a flag, then disables irq ;P23:19
AStormstill, it's crazy, what it's doing23:20
lardmanI have the horrible feeling I'll have to do some looking at kernel code, and on the n810 too23:20
AStorm * Timer is called every TSC2005_TS_SCAN_TIME when the pen is down23:20
AStormthey want that to be true, but...23:20
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lardmanbloody thing gets stuck after X transfers, and although the DSP has finished processing and should have returned, and the ARM should be sending, nothing gets though23:20
AStorm        mod_timer(&ts->timer, jiffies +23:21
AStorm                  msecs_to_jiffies(TSC2005_TS_SCAN_TIME));23:21
AStormwhich is horribly *wrong* on recent kernels23:21
dererkAnyone experimented problems using Skype on N810?23:21
AStormdererk: yes, it breaks when CPU is loaded23:21
dererkI get a "error recording"23:21
AStormah, that, no23:21
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AStormdrivers/spi/tsc2005.c:586: error: ‘struct tsc2005_platform_data’ has no member named ‘ts_max_pressure’ heh23:23
AStormthe build error23:23
AStormneed to hack around it better23:23
AStormI'll set it to MAX_12BIT now23:24
AStormsound now... worked?!23:24
AStormyes, definitely23:25
AStormwhat did I change in the kernel config?23:25
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lardmants enables sound :)23:25
AStormno no23:25
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AStormI enabled... UTS Namespaces and IPC Namespaces23:25
AStormI suspect one of these is used.23:26
AStormok, so now fix tsc2005 and we're home23:26
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AStormwait no23:27
AStormI disabled OMAP_MUX23:27
AStormbut it didn't boot w/o that earlier.. now it did?23:27
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AStormok, definitely, OMAP_MUX is broken23:28
AStormwhile my tsc2005 hacks don't help23:29
AStormno, they did help23:29
AStormdragging now works23:30
AStormI win23:30
lardmanprogress then :)23:30
qwerty12_N800AStorm 1 - Nokia 023:30
AStormOk, who wants the .config?23:31
qwerty12_N800me me me23:31
AStormstill, short taps don't work correctly23:31
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AStormit gets multiple ones ;P23:31
AStormbut, dragging works, and that's the most important thing23:31
AStormyou need a slight tweak in the tsc2005, can't provide a diff23:33
lardmanhow do I undo local changes and go back to svn head?23:33
AStormjust remove that part of the if that makes it break23:33
AStormlardman: svn revert?23:34
AStormor just svn co -f?23:34
lardmancool, thanks23:34
AStormyes, svn revert23:34
AStormI shall now check if canola works better23:35
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AStormbites as usual (vs normal mplayer)23:36
AStormor even more23:36
AStormwell, that might be gst output ;P23:37
AStormI'll try esd one23:37
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KotCzarny2.6.26 works?23:39
AStorm2.6.21+cfs does23:39
AStorm2.6.26 won't work with cx3110x23:39
AStormwith +cfs omapfb always fails23:41
summatusmentiswho was it in here a while ago talking about funambol?23:41
AStormor maybe it's just that "no manual update" default23:41
Astroanyone tried 2.6.26-omap without cx3110x?23:41
AStormAstro: I did23:43
AStormit booted to a white screen23:43
lardmanI have nearly no idea what I changed, but it screwed up the encoder, back to svn head thank God23:43
AStormsome guy at linux-omap ML told me I'd have to rebuild Xomap against new headers23:43
AStormbut I doubt it23:43
AStormI suspect it was that OMAP_MUX which kills DSP23:44
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lardmanAStorm: I'll bear it in mind. I should be able to skip my foray into N810 kernel for the time being, but let me know how you get on23:44
AStormqwerty12_N800: note: this .config won't work flawlessly23:44
AStormto make it so, enable "default to manual screen update"23:44
AStormand disable fbcon23:44
AStormotherwise mplayer will have problems (omapfb or not)23:45
lardmanlcuk: ping23:45
KotCzarnyastorm: that can be changed runtime23:45
KotCzarnysee fanoush's util23:46
AStormyes, it works23:46
AStormit is getting changed by Xomap23:46
AStormbut it's still buggy ;P23:46
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AStormI'll test 2.6.26-omap with this config more23:48
AStormIf I get it up to speed, we may try petitioning Nokia for an update of cx3110x23:49
KotCzarnyas for speed try gtk-perf23:49
AStormgot a white screen again...23:49
KotCzarnyor whatever was the util name23:49
KotCzarnyto get numbers23:49
KotCzarnyin fact we should prepare some benchmark suite for nit23:49
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AStormit blocked either due to manual update23:51
AStormor due to "check bootloader initialization"23:51
KotCzarnydamn, it's +30C and i have a runny nose23:52
KotCzarnydon't know23:53
KotCzarnyi hate it though23:53
AStormhm, it booted now, but no start sound for some reason23:53
Atariihot curry?23:53
KotCzarnyand when i try to run nwn under linux it reboots my x session23:53
AStormKotCzarny: check today date ;P23:53
lardman30C, it's only 15C here!23:54
KotCzarnyit was crashing earlier too23:54
qwerty12_N800was gonna say same :p23:54
KotCzarnylardman: lucky!23:54
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KotCzarnyit's 30C in the shade23:54
inzlardman, lucky you, only 6 here23:54
KotCzarnyin full sun i bet it's ~50-6023:54
qwerty12_N800lardman, Thank God for that >.<, dont think I could have done with 3023:55
qwerty12_N800inz, Sunny Finland, eh?23:55
AStormhm, another reboot, now softirqd is acting crasy23:55
AStormwith 99% CPU use23:55
lardmanno way, last week we were near 20C, was great :)23:55
lardmans/20C/30C :D23:56
AStormwe  were  here at 30C too23:56
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KotCzarnyi bet i'm stuck with wine23:56
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inzqwerty, well, it is almost midnight here23:57
AStormhere it's 1h to midnight still23:57
KotCzarny5pm here23:57
qwerty12_N800inz, I'm not so far behind :/23:57
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ds3arrrrrggggg garnet vm is a power drain :(23:58
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AStormok, seems that video works now23:59
inzqwerty, it was about 15 degrees at daytime, until it started to rain23:59
AStormalthough still slow23:59
AStormI'll renice mplayer to hell (should be very powerful with cfs)23:59
ds3left it running, battery was fully charged as of 4 hours ago now the battery icon is red :(23:59
inzqwerty, can you tell when it started to rain:
KotCzarnyds3: what would you expect from emulation?23:59

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