IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2008-06-12

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lcukwell take the backing off the 810 and use the LCD itself with a projector bulb behind ;)00:00
lcukproject it onto the surface of an old crt monitor ;)00:00
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Gadgetoiduse lasers!00:03
lcukwont the sharks complain?00:04
GadgetoidDamn those sharks! we shall steal their lasers and change the world forever00:05
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KotCzarnysharks are people too, you know!00:10
dholbertwhat's the difference between architecture "arm" and architecture "armel"?00:11
dholbertif any?00:11
dholbertI've got a deb for architecture "arm" which won't install on my n810, because the n810 is "armel"00:12
KotCzarnylittle endian00:12
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DekaritaeCanola is supporting avi format, but none of the avi format video show up00:13
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KotCzarnyinstall mplayer00:13
DekaritaeI have it00:14
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DekaritaeIt does not make Canola work00:14
lcukcanola uses mplayer for video (in an embedded mode) try the video in mplayer directly00:15
DekaritaePlays fine00:15
DekaritaeCanola does not display video files in list00:15
lcuki thought it did00:15
DekaritaeDisplays folders which should have video00:16
DekaritaeAll are empty00:16
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DekaritaeIt displays cover arts for one album of 30000:17
DekaritaeAll albums have folder.jpg00:17
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DekaritaeI have the tuning and I have the update cover arts00:20
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lardmanwierd, I get a couple of bars out output, then silence00:34
lardmanbut mplayer hasn't indicated a fault00:34
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lardmananyone happen to know what signal 7 is?00:43
KotCzarny       SIGBUS      10,7,10     Core    Bus error (bad memory access)00:44
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KotCzarny       SIGEMT       7,-,7      Term00:44
KotCzarnyand that's from another table00:44
KotCzarnyman 7 signal00:44
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* lardman can only hear ~1s of audio at a time00:47
lardmanI think the dsp is decoding too slowly and mplayer is then just outputting no sound00:47
KotCzarnyresetting it every 1s isn't a good resolution i guess00:47
lardmanno, I have to pause, wait a few seconds until the pitch of the "white noise" changes, then I can listen to another 1s' worth00:48
lardmannot ideal :)00:48
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lardmanI see this from time to time:00:51
lardmanalsa-play: write error: Broken pipe13.0% 78%00:51
lardmanalsa-play: trying to reset soundcard00:51
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crashanddieIn maemo mapper, can I download map based on a trip ?01:45
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lardmancrashanddie: yes I think so01:52
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lardmanyou should be able to set it to download maps x miles on either side of a route01:52
lardmanin manage maps perhaps?01:53
lardmanI can't remember off the top of my head01:53
crashanddieyeah, I think I found it01:53
crashanddieif you zoom to a given area, you have the option to download that whole area, and with a given resolution01:53
crashanddiemaemo mapper just segfaulted on me :P01:53
lardmanyes, again the zoom settings to download are set in one of those menus01:53
lcukcrashanddie, apt nick :)01:55
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crashanddielcuk, heh01:55
crashanddiemaemo mapper starts up with a helluva lots of errors01:55
crashanddiethen crashes as soon as I try to access VE hybrid maps01:56
lcuklardman :) i can blit arbitary yv12 bitmaps now.  gotta tackle resizing ;)01:56
* crashanddie deletes cache01:56
lcukwriting to internal mmc on 810?01:56
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lardmanlcuk: sounds cool01:58
crashanddieyeah, found my problem01:58
crashanddieforgot to set the VE hybrid db to to internel mem card01:59
crashanddieroot was filled quite fast :P01:59
lcuklardman, in the dsp thing of yours what display mode are you outputting the movie at.  is it yuv420 (the interleaved format)?01:59
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lardmanshould be02:00
lardmanbut best talk to ssvb as he's made more progress on it02:00
crashanddieyou guys having problems syncing audio/video ?02:00
lcukcool stuff :)02:00
lardmanI'm having troubles processing data fast enough02:01
crashanddieone of my projects for this summer, is going to be a small app for maemo02:01
crashanddiethat records sound/video from the n8x002:01
crashanddieand sends it to youtube :-°02:01
crashanddieNow, I'm not a youtubist, to say the least02:01
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NaviHow about just records sound/video and stores it locally >_>02:02
Naviskip the Youtube part02:02
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crashanddieIt's just, the camera I gave to my mom has this feature, and I refuse to believe my NIT is lesser equipped than a stupid $300 camera02:02
timelyxcrashanddie: believe it? :)02:03
NaviI believe it02:03
timelyxthe camera in the n8x0 is something like qvga02:03
NaviThe camera you gave to your mother is a real camera :P02:03
timelyxit's good enough for basic video conferencing on low bandwidth02:03
timelyxbut you wouldn't want to do much else w/ it02:04
* lardman should go to bed02:04
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crashanddietimelyx, yeah I know... That camera actually records in 640x480 or better resolution02:05
crashanddiethink it's higher02:06
crashanddiesomething in the xxx x 700 or something02:06
crashanddieanyway, I know the NIT camera is crap02:06
crashanddieI'm talking about the software here02:06
crashanddiemight just be it yeah02:07
summatusmentisthat's a really obscure resolution02:08
lcukisnt that PAL overscan? size02:09
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crashanddie*sigh* I wish the NIT had better wifi speeds02:10
crashanddiecorrect that02:10
crashanddie*sigh* I wish Wifi was faster02:10
KotCzarnyjust use usb reader02:11
KotCzarnyand write your vids directly02:11
crashanddiemy whole area with all resolutions: 300gig02:12
KotCzarny15mb/s > 0.5mb/s02:12
lcukcrashanddie, did you send your gps tracker around the country?02:13
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KotCzarnyAP - Multiple congressional computers have been hacked by people working from inside China, lawmakers said Wednesday, suggesting the Chinese were seeking lists of dissidents.02:14
summatusmentiswait... US congressional computers?02:15
crashanddiebleh, you americans suck at grammar02:15
summatusmentiswhy would the chinese be seeking lists of dissidents in the uS?02:15
crashanddieit's "our congressional computers?", not "us .."02:15
KotCzarnyi'm just pasting a headline02:15
KotCzarnythose are not mine02:16
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lardmannight chaps02:20
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rmh3093is ther source code for canola2 available... is it even an opensource project?03:17
rmh3093for the first or second question03:18
summatusmentiswho started it?03:19
rmh3093well that is partially discouraging03:19
rmh3093looks like an awesome app for my car pc03:19
KotCzarnyyeah, it's still good app03:19
rmh3093yeah but if the source isnt available then its of no use to me really03:20
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summatusmentiswhat license is it under? where's it from?03:21
KotCzarnyfrom brazil03:21
rmh3093web site says "components" are licensed as gpl03:21
KotCzarnyi guess it's all on their site03:21
summatusmentisrmh3093: check out #canola, they'd know better03:24
summatusmentisit looks like almost everything is open source though03:24
KotCzarnyduring .br bussiness hours though03:24
rmh3093summatusmentis, thanks, but i already saw the part that I care about on their web site.... "Canola is not opensource"03:25
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lcukgnite folks03:54
KotCzarnynite nite03:54
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GeneralAntillesIf anybody failed to notice:
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befordhi, I'm trying to download something with Transmission on maemo, but the torrent keeps pausing for no apparent reason04:07
GeneralAntillesWifi powersave has been known to call issues.04:09
GeneralAntillesHave wifi problems with your router?04:09
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befordit disconnects sometimes but I thought that was because I am a bit far away of the AP04:16
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GeneralAntillesThat could factor in, too.04:17
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befordoh ok, but transmission pauses the torrent and the wifi connection is still on04:18
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pupniktorrents soon illegal04:27
KotCzarnythey should ban internet04:28
KotCzarnythat would be easier04:28
pupnikhack someone elses windows machine04:28
GeneralAntillesThat will be hilarious to enforce.04:28
pupnikget someone else in jail, prefeably a govt employee04:28
pupniklearn to hack windows boxen04:28
KotCzarnybtw. is concept of 'illegal information' existing anywhere else than human minds?04:31
pupnikno of course not04:33
pupnikjust like illegal plants04:33
* GeneralAntilles ships pupnik a pair of illegal pants.04:33
rm_youhow would torrents ever become illegal >_>04:33
* GeneralAntilles calls the Feds on pupnik.04:33
rm_youthat'll never happen04:33
GeneralAntillesrm_you, dunno about never happening04:34
GeneralAntillesit can never be ENFORCED04:34
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GeneralAntillesBut politicians are stupid people.04:34
pupnikyou underestimate the capacity for enforcement GeneralAntilles04:34
KotCzarnystupid is a bad word, corrupted is better04:34
rm_you... Blizzard uses torrents for WoW updates >_>04:35
GeneralAntillesWell, it could be "enforced" like the drug laws are "enforced"04:35
pupnikmuch easier04:35
GeneralAntillesReally, technically, everything on the internet is p2p04:35
KotCzarnyrm_you: then they will start using http or ftp again04:35
rm_youif torrents become illegal, we'll invent "smorrents"04:35
rm_youvery similar, but not quite the same thing04:35
rm_youthen they can go ahead and spend years extending the torrent regulations to smorrents too04:36
pupnikyou can encrypt everything04:36
rm_youthen blorrents04:36
rm_youi mean04:36
pupnikand the state can put a bullet in your head for using encryption04:36
GeneralAntillesWelcome to Iran04:36
* GeneralAntilles is just waiting for the revolution.04:37
KotCzarnythat's unforrtunatelly the possibility04:37
KotCzarnyreal one04:37
pupnikoh what, the smart people starting an uprising?04:37
KotCzarnybut i tell you, they will just give you some chemicals04:37
KotCzarnyno, eliminating threat to the state04:37
pupnikyes, that's fairly easy now, isn't it04:38
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KotCzarnyotoh, why should we complain?04:38
pupnikwe're so far beyond what the nazis could do04:38
pupnikjust commenting on the mechanisms04:39
KotCzarnynazis wanted nwo too fast04:39
pupnikwant a free world for our offspring04:39
KotCzarnydefine free04:39
pupnikyou can do what you want, as long as you don't hurt other people04:39
KotCzarnydefine hurt04:39
GeneralAntillesIt's amazing that human societies descend towards tyranny so easily.04:40
pupnikviolate property or persons04:40
KotCzarnydefine violate04:40
pupniksteal, defraud or damage04:40
KotCzarnyis advertising violating?04:40
pupnikunless you claim something you can't deliver04:41
pupnikthat's fraud04:41
pupniki have time, KotCzarny04:41
KotCzarnyyes, world without lies would be nice04:41
KotCzarnybut it's a part of human nature04:41
KotCzarnyand ability to abstract things04:41
pupnikwe're just clarifying what constitutes crime04:41
KotCzarnyi wonder what would happen if one day, suddenly nobody could tell a lie, only truth04:42
pupnikoh i can lie about you, that's not a crime04:42
pupnikkotczarny likes to eat shoe leather04:42
KotCzarnynever tried, could be true04:43
pupnikif i say that, maybe somebody believes it04:43
pupnikand then that lowers the value of services you can sell04:43
pupnikhowever that isn't actual damages to you04:43
pupnikso i am of the opinion that even lies about a person isn't a crime04:43
pupnikjust lies about a product in a transaction04:43
pupnik"this device will clean your carpet"...04:44
GeneralAntillesi.e. violating a contract04:44
pupnikif i open a grocery store next to another grocery store04:44
pupnikand we think that lowering the value of someone else's services is a crime04:45
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pupnikthen it is a crime for me to open a grocery store next to another grocery store04:45
KotCzarnyfirst you would have to know if it really does that04:45
KotCzarnyhaving 2 groceries can bring more customers to the area04:46
KotCzarnybecause of better choice04:46
pupnikah good point04:46
pupnikso it might not be guaranteed that i lower his prices by competing04:46
pupnikbut *if* it happens04:46
pupnikhave i committed a crime?04:46
KotCzarnyyou want freedom, free market is part of it04:47
pupnikright, so lowering the value of someone else's services is not criminal *per-se*04:47
KotCzarnyas long you don't bully04:47
KotCzarnyand in general if you use only clean competing techniques, you are ok04:47
KotCzarnyyou can compete in clean way, ie. providing better services04:48
KotCzarnythat's not a crime then04:48
pupnikyes, there are then borders.  the interesting edge case is "is lying about someone else's person a crime'04:48
KotCzarnybut if you compete using force or lies04:48
KotCzarnythen it's not ok04:48
KotCzarnylying is bad04:48
pupnikyes lies is the interesting edge case04:48
pupnikforce is clearly wrong04:49
KotCzarnylies is a force by words04:49
pupnikyeah, but have i misrepresented something to a contractual party?04:50
pupnikit is grey for me04:50
KotCzarnywhy did you do it?04:50
GeneralAntillesFreedom of speech is more important than libel issues, in my opinion.04:50
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pupnikmaybe i'm just a jerk who likes to pollute google with "kotczarny eats shoe leather"04:51
KotCzarnythen you are violating my good name04:51
KotCzarnygood name is my property04:51
pupnikah but do you own that?04:51
KotCzarnyyes i do04:51
pupnikgreat - you get to the heart of things04:51
KotCzarnyi'm a part of society04:52
* pupnik high fives KotCzarny for the philosophical competence04:52
KotCzarnywanting it or not04:52
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pupniki would submit that one's reputation is not property04:52
pupnikand that one must distinguish it from real property04:52
KotCzarnyit has a value04:53
KotCzarnythat can be exchanged for your 'real' property04:53
pupnikbut one portion of property that is inherent to its' nature is the natural ability of a person to control it04:53
pupnikbut you can not naturally control your reputation in your community04:54
KotCzarnyyes, i can throw a can of dirt on your grocery store04:54
pupnikthat's a direct property violation - of physical goods04:54
Mikhonever seen #maemo this philosophical...04:54
pupnikbut what if you are a hair stylist04:54
pupnikand someone says "KotCzarny's haircut was horrible"04:55
GeneralAntillesIt happens every once and a while, Mikho. ;)04:55
KotCzarnyyou are trying to go physical/non-physical04:55
KotCzarnyif you were an animal04:55
KotCzarnythen ok, nothing non-physical is real04:55
Mikhotook a while to read all the scrollback04:55
KotCzarnybut you are not only physical04:55
KotCzarnypart of you is non-physical04:55
KotCzarnyand that's why 'good name' is a real property04:55
pupnikyes, but in terms of damages, if you allow reputation to be considered property, than all kinds of legitimate free speech must be constrained04:56
pupniki may no longer say that i don't like the N810 dpad04:56
KotCzarnyonly those 'damaging/violating' ones04:56
pupnikok then maybe you have a distinction that i don't yet see04:56
pupniki guess it is the spreading of falsehoods about something04:57
KotCzarnyphysical goods can have value or not04:57
KotCzarnydepending who you are and what you want04:57
pupnikok, no i think the distinction is devaluation of property by an opinion, or devaluation by a lie04:58
KotCzarnybag of shinies for indians for a gold for westerners04:58
KotCzarnyboth are lies04:58
KotCzarnydepending on their values04:58
pupnikright, so if I say the dpad design is an intentional attempt by nokia to create injury to people, that would be a devaluation crime, because i know it's not true04:59
KotCzarnymy mental stability may be worth more for me than a state of my trousers04:59
pupnikbleh - good discussion04:59
KotCzarnydpad design had it's argumentation in nokia dev labs05:00
pupnikyou have caused me to reconsider my position.  thx05:00
Mikhoyou can cause damage with truth as well05:00
KotCzarnyi just hope it wasn't like 'hey, i like how it looks'05:00
KotCzarnywithout testing for ease of use05:00
KotCzarnymikho: intentionally05:00
KotCzarnybut it's bullying in some way05:01
KotCzarnyusing words as a tool05:01
pupnikit's just a little bit different than me smashing in your window or stealing your computer, imo05:01
KotCzarnybut then, lies are way worse05:01
KotCzarnypupnik: nope05:02
KotCzarnyi value my data more than my hardware05:02
pupnikno it is.  one is a first-order destruction or theft of property05:02
pupnikthe other is only an influence upon people's valuation of your services or property05:02
KotCzarnyif you steal my data, configs, address books05:02
KotCzarnythat would be more damaging for me than hw loss05:02
KotCzarnyfor me, yes05:03
pupniki'm not talking about stealing your data05:03
pupniki'm talking about reducing the value of something you want to sell05:03
pupnikreputation etc05:03
KotCzarnybut i'm giving it as an example of value difference05:03
KotCzarnyhardware without softare is, bleh05:03
KotCzarnywhat would you do with nit without access to sdk?05:03
KotCzarnyyou can't say real/virtual05:04
KotCzarnyeverything is real05:04
KotCzarnyeverything has it's value05:05
KotCzarnyit may be worthless for you05:05
KotCzarnybut may be a treasure for someone else05:05
pupniknah i'm trying to draw a line between real damages to things, and a reduction of people's opinions of the value of something of yours05:05
pupnikand i think the line has some validity05:05
KotCzarnythat's what i want to say05:05
KotCzarnyyou have your values05:05
KotCzarnyand they may differ from other peoples values05:06
KotCzarnyand here we go back to freedom05:07
KotCzarnyand it's value05:07
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KotCzarnyit may be your priority05:07
pupnikyes, my original position was that saying 'kotczarny's apples contain worms' would not be a crime even if it were a lie05:07
pupnikbecause it would not damage your apples per-se05:07
KotCzarnybut for some it's worthless, as long their needs are satisfied05:08
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KotCzarnybut it will be damaging to my good name05:08
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KotCzarnyhow would you resolve it?05:08
GeneralAntillesFreedom of speech is more important.05:08
pupnikyes, but the distinction is that you do not naturally own your good name05:08
pupnikit is something that exists in the community05:08
KotCzarnyi may say that you don't own your body05:09
KotCzarnyimagine breeding factory05:09
KotCzarnythat will stamp you with a contract on your birth05:09
KotCzarnywhat now?05:09
pupnikuh, that's a vilation of rights05:10
KotCzarnyno, why?05:10
KotCzarnythey gave you life05:10
pupnikone naturally owns one's body05:10
KotCzarnyand raised you05:10
KotCzarnythey gave you minerals05:10
KotCzarnyand atoms05:10
KotCzarnyand energy05:10
KotCzarnynot gave, lend.05:10
pupnikyes, but your nature as a conscious being means you determine how you move, type, think, speak etc05:10
KotCzarnynot really05:10
pupnikevery act you do is volition05:10
KotCzarnyit's possible only with some kind of religion05:11
KotCzarnyotherwise it's just random, with some high probability for some actions05:11
pupnikyou're saying that you have a natural right to what others think of you, in the exact same way that you have the right to move your arm or fingers or mouth?05:12
KotCzarnylebens raum05:12
KotCzarnyit extends from my body05:12
KotCzarnymy good name extends into society mind05:12
pupniki still see a distinction there, though i could see how lying about someone might be some kind of violation05:13
KotCzarnyit's a part of me in the reality of society05:13
pupnikyeah, you made your point well05:13
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KotCzarnybut when the resources shrink we all fallback to bestiality05:14
KotCzarnysociety is a luxury05:14
pupnikyou hobbsian05:15
pupniki disagree that the natural state of man is 'war of all against all'05:15
KotCzarnythink of it as a fractal05:15
KotCzarnycrude at far look05:15
KotCzarnybut more and more detailed with enough time/calculations05:15
KotCzarnypupnik: we will see, bad times before our civilization05:15
pupnikbritish vs american spelling05:16
KotCzarnyyeah, british from school, american from internet05:16
KotCzarnywell, i think 'z' when used as a verb05:17
pupnikregardless, this is my favorite offtopic conversation yet in maemo.  thanks05:18
Mikhoso, did you reach a conclusion about the torrents?05:18
KotCzarnyit's a protocal05:19
KotCzarnycompany may be closed05:19
KotCzarnybut protocol will live05:19
KotCzarnymain problem of anti-piracy people is that internet bits are not under full control05:20
shaprI thought it was that they didn't have all our money yet?05:20
shaprIsn't that their problem?05:20
KotCzarnyfrom peer to peer05:20
MikhoI think internet anonymity should be removed05:20
KotCzarnyshapr: what's the use of the money if only one entity have it?05:21
Xxaxxthere is no anonymity :P just cost of your privicy05:21
Mikhoit's a bit impossible, but wouldn't it be nice...05:21
shaprMikho: I'm about to knock on your door.05:21
pupnikif anti-piracy would be enforced, while open source would be freed, that'd give a boost to open-source05:21
GeneralAntillesMikho, no.05:21
shaprMikho: I'm taking the bus from Tornio down to see you.05:21
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* pupnik daydreams about the companies he could report for copyright violations to the SPA05:22
Mikhoshapr, please come05:22
shaprMikho: Ok, not really :-)05:22
shaprI have spent time at Oulu unversity though.05:22
MikhoI'm in Tokyo :)05:22
shaprDo you know Erno Kuusela in Oulu?05:22
shaprMikho: It's okay, I'm in Boston :-P05:23
Mikhono, I don't think we've met05:23
shaprErno is a really cool guy, he's usually e or e` on ircnet.05:23
KotCzarnypupnik: report, then what?05:24
shaprI've forgotten the name of the group at Oulu that broke XDR a few years back...05:24
MikhoI see05:24
MikhoI'll say hello from shapr if he comes across05:24
shaprThat would be cool :-)05:25
shaproh, I nearly got to visit the first IRC server in Oulu, but the professor was out to lunch :-(05:25
shaprHe's using that first IRC server as a flower pot.05:25
Mikhobad luck :/05:25
shaprFinland has come up with lots of great stuff... IRC, Linux, neural networks, ssh...05:25
shaprI'm convinced the krapula was invented in Finland too.05:26
Mikhothat's imported05:26
shaprSalmiakki Koskenkorva is pure Finnish though.05:26
pupnikKotCzarny: no practical point to it - just the idea of promoting open-source by stopping warez05:27
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KotCzarnyopen-music ?05:27
MikhoAh, difficult to get salmiakki from around here05:27
Mikhopeople seem to think it's poison05:27
shaprYeah, I haven't been able to find any in Boston either :-(05:27
shapror a decent sauna for that matter.05:27
KotCzarnywait, we already had it, mod.ules :)05:28
pupnikthere's awesome open music05:28
shaprI had a great sauna in my house in Tornio.05:28
KotCzarnyuade: module 'MOD.the last kuusnepa' (7580 bytes)05:28
shaprcrank it up to 80°, drink beer and then go roll in the snow....05:28
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shaprMikho: On the good side, it's easy to get great Sake there. Not so easy here.05:29
shaprMy kuksa is wearing out, I need a new one :-(05:29
shaprDo you know anyone who sells those online?05:29
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Mikhomaybe I should buy some just because I can..05:29
Mikhonormally I prefer beer05:29
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shaprLapin Kulta? :-)05:30
shaprI lived two blocks from the Lapin Kulta brewery.05:30
Mikhoi think there are lot of companies that sell them online05:30
Mikhodid you get inside?05:30
shaprI don't think so.05:30
shaprOf course, they gave away free beer on the tours, so I probably wouldn't remember if I did get inside.05:30
Mikhobeen there thrice \o/05:30
shaprOoh, lucky you.05:30
shaprDid you hang out at the Umpitunneli in downtown Tornio?05:31
shaprThat was the social center of Tornio when I lived there.05:31
Mikhonope, never spent a night in tornio05:31
shaprThe other (sort of upscale) option was the bar in the hotel.05:32
shaprThat was pretty much all the social life I ever saw in Tornio. I think that might have been all there was.05:32
Mikhomight be05:32
shaprThen I moved to Sweden.05:32
shaprminä en puhu suomea.... men jag talar svenska...05:33
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shaprMikho: Did you go to school in Oulu? Or just grow up there?05:33
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Mikhowell, both05:34
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shaprHow'd you get to Tokyo? Got a job there?05:34
Mikhoresearch collaboration05:35
shaprOh cool05:35
shaprWhat kind of research do you do?05:35
Mikhowriting maemo apps of course :)05:36
shaprhah cool!05:36
Xxaxxin tokyo ? :/05:36
KotCzarnywhy not?05:36
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Xxaxxit is strange for me :)05:36
Mikhowriting maemo apps is great in tokyo05:37
Xxaxxopen source apps ?05:37
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shaprI worked at a Nokia subcontractor in Tornio. That was exciting... All I have left is one screenshot of Nokia 9210 dev -
MikhoIn the end yes05:38
shaprMikho: What have you worked on?05:38
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KotCzarnyepoc.. fun...05:38
shaprYeah, 0ldsk00l pain.05:39
Mikhoah, have to go now :)05:39
* shapr waves05:39
Mikhocu later05:40
KotCzarnyalso winme..05:40
GeneralAntillesSo, uh, who wants to get behind this and get it rolling?
shaprI like a meritocracy, those who write more code gets more say.05:41
KotCzarnydesigners are fun too05:41
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GeneralAntillesHardcore developers usually don't have a lot of time for stuff like this. ;)05:41
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GeneralAntillesand usually don't have a great picture of the community as a whole.05:41
GeneralAntillesBesides, this isn't really about "say"05:41
GeneralAntillesit's about focusing the dialog between the community and Nokia.05:42
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n800mam i community?05:42
shaprAm I community?05:43
GeneralAntillesEverybody who owns a tablet is community.05:43
KotCzarnyeveryone is a community05:43
n800mthen yeah it'd be a nice idea05:43
n800mexcept i disagree with you ppl on everything!05:43
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KotCzarnyno problem05:43
n800mam i still community?05:44
n800mi'm kidding05:44
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n800myeah that's a cool idea05:44
n800myou guys should totally do it05:44
KotCzarnynot me, i'm a hacker05:44
GeneralAntillesYeah, we've gotten that far. ;) Now we need to get down to the nitty-gritty and Jaffa's on vacation. >:|05:45
n800myou should make a voting system05:45
n800mthat only works on tablets05:45
shaprI just want to inject 802.11 frames.05:45
KotCzarnyuse usb adapter?05:45
n800mand then we vote for the community leaders05:45
shaprI also want A2DP support that uses the DSP.05:46
n800mand farm money and all that stuff05:46
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thefool_does canola2 work in 2008HE for the n770?05:46
KotCzarnyshapr, work in progress though :>05:46
KotCzarnyICY Info: StreamTitle='Leinad - Fear of the Exams';05:47
thefool_aw well, I am just gonna reflash with 2007he does anyone know how to enable usb-host mode off hand (not the wiring just what I have to do software side) I used to know, but it has been a while and it seems google has buried that info05:49
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n800mmy biggest wish is musicmaking on maemo05:50
n800mbut there aren't many ppl interested05:50
n800mother than that05:50
thefool_n800m: what would you have it do?05:50
n800mi vote yest for everything05:50
KotCzarnyn800m: use uae and protracker05:50
n800mwell ppl do a lot of dsp on it so it should be capable of more05:51
KotCzarnyn800m: or octamed05:51
n800mi'm not complaining, just stating05:51
n800mi couldn't get uae to run05:51
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KotCzarnyn800m: pupnik.de05:51
n800mi tried that install but didn't work05:52
n800mjust stating a wish kot05:52
n800mnot bitching :)05:52
n800mbut i think the hardware's there for better recording05:52
KotCzarnyotoh i need to fix that mouse absolute positioning working :)05:52
n800mand some synthesis05:52
n800msample playback05:53
KotCzarnyn800m: main problem is closed sound driver i guess..05:53
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n800mthat's why i think this council thing would be good05:53
n800mthey'll listen05:53
KotCzarnyyou can get esd/alsa/oss arch running to some extent05:53
n800myeah i saw alsa in xmms05:53
KotCzarnyusually it's just a matter of grabbing your favourite synth app and compiling it yourself05:54
KotCzarnyor trying to install packages from debian.org05:54
n800mhopefully after qt gets in maemo05:55
n800mmore stuff will work05:55
KotCzarnyi don't use qt05:55
n800myou're not a sound app05:55
n800munfortunately :x05:55
thefool_so is there any plans in the works for something after the n810? I really want something like that with the thumb-board and GPS but I have heard the GPS is lousy and the thumb-boards top row is not really usable05:58
KotCzarnygrow nails05:58
* KotCzarny grins05:58
thefool_to me it is the first gen of the tablet I really want, so I am hoping there is a second gen which irons out the little things and adds some other fluff that I don't care about now that will be all the rave later :)06:00
KotCzarnyyou will have to wait then06:01
thefool_one thing I want is some help on the graphics end, it is just sad that my 770 renders stuff without tearing that the 8x0s cant06:01
KotCzarnyas there is no major changes to the design in the nearest few months06:01
KotCzarnymaybe mythical n900 will suit you06:01
KotCzarnyor just get a bt kb06:02
thefool_I have one for my 770, it is really useful but not what I like06:02
thefool_I got spoiled by by old Zaurus, I used to pace around pounding out code in that things thumb-board06:03
thefool_but it is seriously outdated now...that and I lost it...06:03
Xxaxxstrange why nokia don't use backside of device for keyboard :) good place06:03
Xxaxxfor gaming and blind typing :)06:04
thefool_WOW, forgot how quick these buggers flash06:04
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thefool_It still amazes me how many people are blown away by my is such old tech nowadays but it was just made so...right. It is a shame that more people (non-geeks) don't use these06:06
thefool_so just reflashed my 770 gonna head over to gronmayer and add a crap load of repos, any weird conflicts lately?06:08
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KotCzarnyi think06:10
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n800mi think i just persuaded somebody to get a n800 :D06:13
thefool_what was the argument?06:15
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n800mhe's a web development guy06:18
n800mhe got excoted about the webkit06:18
n800m-o +i06:18
shaprIs that like being excommunicated?06:18
thefool_so what browser do people use now on 2007? is the webkit one up to snuff now?06:19
GeneralAntillesHrm, anybody have any input on picking the council chairman? The current proposal is to have the member with the most votes as chairman, but I think the council should probably pick its own chair (and maybe default to the member with the most votes if a decision cannot be reached?).06:20
n800myeah that's a good idea06:21
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thefool_I totally agree with that, votes from those outside of the council will be based largely on name recognition and not how good of a chairman they would make. The council members can be trusted to pick a good leader.06:22
n800myeah i agree06:22
n800mi think also availability is another big thing that most people might not know about06:23
n800mthe council would06:23
thefool_yea good point06:23
Navin800m, that's some really outdated stuff you linked to06:25
n800myeah i saw the date06:26
NaviThe EAL went proprietary and alp quit working on it06:26
n800mthat sucks06:27
Navialp's still working on tablet optimizations though, if I heard right06:27
fysaeal is painful.06:28
fysawe need less layers, not more. ;/06:28
NaviAnyways, I'm against the whole council thing :P06:30
KotCzarnywhat do you propose instead?06:30
GeneralAntillesNavi, then you don't understand its purpose. ;)06:31
thefool_Navi: Why exactly?06:31
NaviGeneralAntilles, pfft06:31
GeneralAntillesIt doesn't have any decision making power06:31
GeneralAntillesit's just there to provide a focus for community complaints and ideas.06:32
rm_yousomeone tell the council to get the source for some statusbar apps open :P06:32
summatusmentisI don't like my complaints to be focused... I much prefer ranting >_>06:32
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rm_youGeneralAntilles: can't open a web browser AT06:32
GeneralAntillessummatusmentis, so you'd rather nothing be done about complaints?06:32
GeneralAntillesrm_you, what, Opera broken? :P06:33
summatusmentisonly my complaints06:33
rm_youGeneralAntilles: My computer is broken... Opera was actually the last browser to die06:33
summatusmentisbesides, I'm just being a smartass, it's 11:30pm, I'm entitled :)06:33
rm_youFirefox went first, followed by IE, then finally Opera gave up the ghost06:33
KotCzarnyrm_you: want a links2 binary?06:33
GeneralAntillesrm_you, your technology hates you.06:33
rm_youhard drives each have less than 20mb free06:34
thefool_they have that for windows?06:34
KotCzarnylinks2 is ~2-3mb06:34
rm_youand they're like 60% fragmented according to my utilities06:34
NaviCommunity focus can be drawn without this retarded election-council-chairman shtick06:34
NaviIt's overcompication06:34
NaviLike the webkit EAL06:34
rm_youit takes 60+ seconds to open a 500kb picture file06:34
GeneralAntillesNavi, it hasn't so far.06:34
fysai want a hero.06:34
GeneralAntillesMr. I-just-joined-the-community-a-few-months-ago. ;)06:34
KotCzarnyrm_you: ever considered using livecd ?06:35
thefool_Navi: First off it is not that complicated, secondly yea sure community focus can be gained without this...not exactly sure how, but this is a darn good way06:35
fysai am putting the community on notice.06:36
summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: is there an outline of the counil planning, description, etc. ?06:36
KotCzarnyfysa: two weeks notice?06:36
GeneralAntillesI'm working on the real one as week speak.06:36
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infobotGeneralAntilles meant: I'm working on the real one as we speak.06:38
thefool_um did xterm get a name change or something? I can't find it in my application list...06:38
GeneralAntillesIt's included by default in OS200806:38
thefool_doh, I think it was always called that I just forgot06:39
thefool_using 2007he06:39
thefool_wanted canola2 was not sure of support for that on 2008he06:39
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thefool_that and maemo-mapper are pretty much essential for me.06:41
KotCzarnyanother one?06:41
thefool_we need something more responsive...this is just a direct port06:42
KotCzarnyuse links206:42
thefool_but I like my pretty layouts and images06:43
KotCzarnythen get a q1 ultra06:43
* thefool_ googles06:43
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thefool_nice, but frankly the google tablet series has won some customer loyalty from me06:45
NaviGoogle tablet?06:45
thefool_I meant to say nokia...06:45
thefool_my brain is fried...06:45
KotCzarnyturn off wifi06:45
KotCzarnyor move farther away :)06:46
shapror at least turn down the yagi!06:46
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KotCzarnyi wonder how that owb scores against maemo browsers06:48
* summatusmentis wanders off to find food06:48
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thefool_so how do I hit esc for vi?06:53
Xxaxxtype arrow06:54
GeneralAntillesPress the escape key?06:54
Xxaxxyeah, escape key = arrow ;)06:54
thefool_on the 770....06:54
GeneralAntillesThe giant one on the front of the device?06:54
GeneralAntillesXxaxx, arrow = dpad06:54
GeneralAntillesthefool_, the back key? :P06:55
Xxaxxon this button I see arrow :)06:55
Xxaxxhouse, table and arrow :/06:55
GeneralAntillesYes, but when people refer to an "arrow" it generally means a dpad or arrow buttons on a keyboard.06:55
Xxaxxok :)06:55
thefool_was there a real solution in all of that?06:55
GeneralAntillesthefool_, the giant escape button below the dpad. . . .06:56
thefool_ok :)06:56
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thefool_oops wrong window06:58
KotCzarnynow we should beep at you06:58
thefool_what repo is becomeroot in?06:59
GeneralAntillesOK, first draft is up.
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rm_youGeneralAntilles: ah, that why you care about karma?07:05
rm_youGeneralAntilles: you wanna be on the council?07:05
GeneralAntillesNot particularly07:05
GeneralAntillesI already have over 100, anyway.07:06
GeneralAntillesThe karma system just kinda sucks right now07:06
GeneralAntillesand I'd like to see it improved.07:06
chrisak-I thought that I had once read about an id3/tag editor for maemo on ITT... didn't find anything via search.  Does anyone recall such an app?07:08
NaviGeneralAntilles's totally going to be on the council07:08
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Navichrisak-, I think the command line tools are in the repos07:08
summatusmentisKotCzarny: that's the second time :) easyroot is at nitapps.com07:08
summatusmentisnot becomeroot07:08
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chrisak-navi, thanks - I'll look there07:09
summatusmentisNavi: he'd have to run right?07:09
GeneralAntillesI'm thinking people should be nominated.07:10
KotCzarnysumma: bah, i use neither one :) ssh ftw!07:10
GeneralAntillesWe'll have to thresh that out.07:10
summatusmentisKotCzarny: ssh doesn't get you anywhere when you're not sititng at a computer07:12
summatusmentisunless you're ssh'ing to localhost07:12
KotCzarnysumma: you have answered your own argument :)07:12
rm_youI hereby nominate GeneralAntilles for the council07:12
summatusmentisis 'ssh root@localhost' really that much easier than 'root' ?07:13
rm_youGeneralAntilles: be my eyes and ears :P07:13
KotCzarnysumma: ssh root@007:13
KotCzarnyeven easier07:13
summatusmentisstill longer07:13
KotCzarnybah, make an alias07:13
summatusmentisor just install easyroot...07:13
summatusmentiswhatever, end result is the same I suppose07:13
KotCzarnyeasyroot doesn't allow me to login from my laptop07:14
KotCzarnynor to mount nit fs via sshfs07:14
KotCzarnyso it's useless for me07:14
GeneralAntillesWoo, use both!07:14
KotCzarnyand redundant07:14
summatusmentisI do like sshfs, I will agree07:14
KotCzarnyand is not a hack07:14
KotCzarnyi mean ssh is not a hack07:15
summatusmentisI wish there were better gsm coverage around here07:16
summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: where does karma come from?07:18
GeneralAntillesFunny you should ask: ;)07:19
GeneralAntillesGenerally speaking, stuff you do on maemo.org07:19
thefool_I had never thought of using ssh root@0 etc. Just tried and it prompts for a password, doesn't accept blank for some reason and I have never set a root password...07:19
thefool_never knew that one07:20
summatusmentisno karma for downloading? :-P07:20
Navisummatusmentis, drats!07:20
GeneralAntillessummatusmentis, just drop a few comments and ratings on the Downloads stuff.07:21
summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: oh, I care nothing about karma really07:21
summatusmentisdon't wanna be part of the council... I was just curiosu07:21
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thefool_command line install was ipkg install package right? I am getting ipkg does not exist07:22
* thefool_ runs away07:22
summatusmentis1) ipkg is dead, opkg has taken it's place07:22
summatusmentis2) maemo uses apt-get :)07:23
thefool_lol woops07:23
thefool_was thinking OpenZaurus...07:23
summatusmentisno worries apt-get > opkg > ipkg07:23
summatusmentisOpenZaurus? have you been living under a rock? :-P07:23
summatusmentisOpenMoko > Angstrom > OpenZaurus > * > Sharp ROM07:24
* rm_you doesn't miss OpenZaurus07:24
summatusmentiscome on, get w/ the times07:24
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summatusmentisrm_you: I whole-heartedly agree07:24
thefool_my Z had such a nice thumb-board though...07:24
thefool_I could do like 4owpm07:25
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KotCzarnydon's miss Maemo07:25
rm_youyeah I miss my Collie... but not OZ07:25
summatusmentismy Z still has anice thumb board... I sometimes run into things on the nokia thumb board I used to be able to do on my Z07:25
summatusmentisrm_you: I've still got a collie around here somewhere07:25
thefool_yea, that is what I had07:26
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summatusmentisI've got a terrier that I should be selling... I kinda don't want to though07:27
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rm_youI *still* kinda want an akita+07:29
rm_youC-xx00 series07:29
rm_youbut i'm gonna save up for the N90007:29
rm_youi wonder if they'll be doing a dev program07:30
GeneralAntillesI bet you could07:30
rm_youI might actually sign up this time07:30
rm_youand maybe this time around it won't be a nightmare07:30
rm_youi mean... devs should get the device FIRST, not 4 months later07:30
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GeneralAntillesStupid Nokia stores.07:31
GeneralAntillesThat's the problem with giant companies.07:31
summatusmentisHow does nokia decide who gets to be a part of the dev program?07:31
GeneralAntilleskarma factor into it.07:32
GeneralAntillesBlog writers, developers, community contributors07:32
NaviThe cooler you are, the less money you pay07:32
GeneralAntillesA lot of things.07:32
summatusmentisoh... then maybe I rescind my previous statement about not caring about karma :)07:32
NaviI still don't, but you can go ahead and party07:32
GeneralAntillessummatusmentis, it's a good time to get into wiki editing. ;)07:32
GeneralAntillesor bug triaging07:33
Navibug triaging is fun07:33
summatusmentisI've got summer of code I've gotta deal w/ this summer07:33
rm_youGeneralAntilles: teach me how to triage :P07:33
summatusmentismaybe once school starts again07:33
GeneralAntillesrm_you, it's easy.07:33
rm_youGeneralAntilles: then teaching me should be easy :P07:33
GeneralAntillesIt just takes forever to figure out the intricacies of bugzilla07:33
GeneralAntillesparticularly maemo bugzilla before we got guernther and andre___.07:33
thefool_So I need to come up with a really nice professional looking blog by the time they start the next dev program :)07:33
GeneralAntillesrm_you, the first step is either to pick a component or three that you're interested in and think you could help with and watch those07:34
GeneralAntillesOr do what I do and set up a new bugs feed.07:34
GeneralAntillesAs bugs come in, you look at them to make sure they're in the right product and component, for the right version, have the right severity and priority. Then you try and reproduce it.07:35
summatusmentisthefool_: presumably you need to have good blog content by the time they start the next dev program :)07:35
thefool_exactly, back fill it all with smart sounding posts :)07:36
GeneralAntillesIf you can reproduce it as described, you confirm it07:36
thefool_my skills as a programmer are still rather lacking so I think I would do more harm than good trying to fix bugs or something07:37
summatusmentisThere's so much I want to do this summer07:37
summatusmentisand I have absolutely no time07:37
rm_youIf i had a blog, it would be pages and pages of posts about how annoying it is trying to write code for the tablet when working against the company that produces it07:37
GeneralAntillesrm_you, you'll want to create a search like this:
Navisummatusmentis, sad :(07:37
summatusmentisNavi: for real...07:37
GeneralAntillesthefool_, is a good place to contribute.07:37
NaviWhatcha doin' in GSoC?07:37
summatusmentisimplementing OpenAFS pioctl()s into kAFS(the red-hat kernel implementation)07:38
summatusmentisbut I had no experience in kernel code, mediocre experience in C, and had never heard of OpenAFS before I applied07:39
thefool_GeneralAntilles:  Wow...I thought the wiki was fairly fleshed out, I can certainly add a good bit of content to that one. I only have a 770 so it may be a bit platform specific but...07:39
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GeneralAntillesthefool_, the old wiki was just replaced with that mediawiki07:39
thefool_ah, so should I just start by copying content that is still up-to-date?07:40
GeneralAntillesSee for more details07:40
GeneralAntillesthefool_, dneary is handling the move07:40
GeneralAntillesThe old midgard articles are here:
GeneralAntillesThey need to be reviewed and updated to completely comply with mediawiki style and formatting07:41
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GeneralAntillesMost of them are fairly out of date, too.07:41
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thefool_yea, so what should I actually "do"? Is there someone I should talk to about this specifically? This is one of the few things I think I can actually be useful with so...07:42
summatusmentis'night all07:43
GeneralAntillesthefool_, well, step one is to make sure you have a Garage account, log into the wiki with that and add your name to the MAG members list.07:43
GeneralAntilles'night, summatusmentis.07:43
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thefool_night summatusmentis07:44
GeneralAntillesThat's where most of the wiki work will be organized from.07:44
summatusmentisFF3 doesn't like the temp cert, FYI thefool_07:44
GeneralAntillesThe most urgent thing is helping out with the midgard (the old wiki) migration07:44
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thefool_yea, it has complained about my home hotspots one as well, no prob though I can just add an exception right?07:44
GeneralAntillesThe articles on the category page that I linked you all need to be reviewed.07:44
summatusmentisthefool_: yep07:45
thefool_I have a garage account, how do I add myself to the MAG list?07:45
summatusmentisbed for real this time07:45
GeneralAntillesthefool_, hit edit on the Members section, then add a "# ~~~~" to the bottom of the list.07:46
thefool_I can do that, what do I do if I think it is too outdated to be of benefit?07:46
thefool_GeneralAntilles: ok07:46
GeneralAntillesthefool_, well, update what you can.07:46
GeneralAntillesMost of the REALLY outdated stuff has already been deleted07:46
GeneralAntillesSo the stuff that's in there now should mostly be salvageable.07:46
GeneralAntillesIf you're wondering about something, just ask about it in here07:47
GeneralAntillessomebody should chime in07:47
GeneralAntillesor hit myself or dneary up directly.07:47
GeneralAntillesWe also need people to help developing templates07:47
GeneralAntilleswhich is a little more involved but a little less boring that trudging through nasty old midgard articles.07:47
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: which is a little more involved but a little less boring than trudging through nasty old midgard articles.07:47
thefool_well I should be able to help with that a bit as well07:47
GeneralAntillesSee here:
GeneralAntillesHere's our current template list:
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GeneralAntillesI'd like to develop a uniform style for message boxes and such07:48
GeneralAntillesso if you've got some talent for graphic design, that would be very appreciated.07:48
GeneralAntillesThe existing templates all need to be documented, too.07:49
GeneralAntillesand a template for template documentation needs to be made. :D07:49
thefool_well it is nearly one here so I am bookmarking all this stuff, but should be able to actually do some work in the next few days07:49
GeneralAntillesthefool_, sounds awesome.07:49
GeneralAntillesWe need all the help we can get07:49
GeneralAntillesfeel free to ping me with any questions. :)07:50
thefool_will do07:50
thefool_well good night man07:51
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GeneralAntillesHi lardman, dneary.08:27
dnearyI'm not really here - be back later08:27
GeneralAntillesBoth of you:
lardmanI don't feel like I am either, far too early08:28
lardmanhi GeneralAntilles08:28
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RST38hlardman: so, have you found what the problem with short read()s was?08:40
lardmanRST38h: no, no idea08:40
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lardmanRST38h: I moved to Diablo, which uses the same "api" as I was annoyed at wasting time on something trivial08:40
lardmanThe code runs, and I get output :)08:41
lardmanbut only ~1s08:41
lardmanI think it's running too slowly08:41
lardman(this is when playing a file though mplayer and encoding to sbc for output in my headphones)08:42
lardmanNow what I could do with, is some way of creating .au/.snd files (BigEndian data, 32bit). Anyone have any ideas (or even just some random ones on the web)?08:43
KotCzarnymencoder ?08:43
lardmanKotCzarny: probably does, I'll look. I've never wanted to use .au stuff before :)08:44
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KotCzarnyjust a guess though :)08:44
KotCzarnyor use sox08:44
KotCzarnythis one has .au/.snd 100%08:45
KotCzarnyand allows byte endianness funky08:45
lardmanah ok, might be best08:45
lardmanit's stunningly hard to search for .au08:45
lardmanyeah mainly, but even with -australia there's not much of use08:46
KotCzarnymy google fu is stronger than yours!08:47
KotCzarnyfirst hit08:47
lardmanbloody hell, it is too! :S08:49
lardmanstill probably too short for benchmarking though, I'll have a go with sox08:50
lardmanjust looking for something suitably interesting as the input :)08:50
KotCzarnyyou should have said you need them for benchmarking08:50
lardmanh, it was scudding around in my head, probably just didn't make it out :)08:50
KotCzarnythough .au were mostly used as system sounds etc08:51
KotCzarnyso it's unlikely to find anything long08:51
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lardmanyeah, that's the problem I've been having08:53
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lardmandifficult to see if they are the right bitrate/endianness as .au seems to be used as a wrapper for raw data quite often08:54
KotCzarnyuse 'file'08:54
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lardmanfor some reason the bluez devs wrote a test program - sbcenc - which needs bigendian, 32bit .au data as its input08:55
lardmanah good idea08:55
RST38hlardman: !08:56
lardmanthat site are all 8bit mono :(08:56
KotCzarnymplayer mplayer -identify -frames 1 could work too08:56
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RST38hlardman: you want an mp3 or what?08:56 BE 32bit08:57
lardmanmight need 16bit08:57
lardmanhang on, let me fire up my N810 and see what it wants08:57
RST38hoh you are encoding not decoding, sorry08:57
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lardman16bit data08:58
lardmanall too short really08:59
RST38hHeh, they are showing some WWII movie and have just used an IFA as German truck09:00
KotCzarnylardman, then soxify some mp309:00
lardmanyeah, reading the man page and going to do that now09:00
lardmansox soxio: Failed reading `barfight.mp3': unknown file type `auto'09:02
KotCzarnyconvert to wav first09:03
KotCzarnysox doesn't do mp309:03
lardmanoh, it does on the man page09:03
* KotCzarny checks09:03
lardmanMP3 files (with optional external library) - ah, perhaps I lack it09:03
qwerty12recompile time...09:03
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lardmanyeah, looks like my sox is knackered, it won't even recognise a wav09:05
KotCzarnyor the syntax is b0rken09:05
lardmanthese sorts of troubles are annoying09:06
KotCzarnytry simple syntax: sox file.mp3 file.au09:06
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lardmansame error09:07
pekujadoes anyone know how I can get Open Street Map for Maemo Mapper?09:08
lardmanpekuja: change the map source09:08
KotCzarnylardman: mine seems working09:08
KotCzarnywant a binary?09:08
KotCzarnyand for mp3 it uses mad09:09
pekujalardman, but what's the source url?09:11
lardmanpekuja: iirc there's a button in the app which will download all the source urls for you, you then choose from a drop-down list09:12
pekujalardman, yeah, there is, but it didn't get me OSM :-/09:12
lardmanKotCzarny: hang on, I'll see if I can work out what's wrong with mine first09:12
pekujaoh well, I think I found the right url:
lardmanI was missing the fmt libraries09:13
KotCzarnylardman: alternatively, just grab slackware package and unpack it09:13
KotCzarnymine uses libasound09:14
RST38hVodafone Italy has set an out-of-contract price for the iPhone 3G at 499/569 ($773/$881) for the 8GB/16GB models, respectively.09:15
lardmancool, I think I'm sorted, at last. Thanks for the help09:15
KotCzarnyquite a deal09:15
KotCzarnyrst, grab 2!09:15
RST38h8 and 16?09:16
qwerty12£442 for a 16GB thing with no buttons?09:16
Navicorrection: four09:16
qwerty12What, the dpad?09:16
NaviWhat dpad?09:16
RST38hyou pay $100 for each button removed09:16
Navivolume rocker, home button, and probably something else09:17
KotCzarnyand 99$ for a brainwash09:17
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GeneralAntilles4 buttons and a switch09:17
GeneralAntillesvolume, home, lock and mute-switch09:18
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NodeRazorHello, how does one uses patches to patch Hacker OS 2008 on Nokia 770 in Linux ?09:18
NodeRazorI've flashed my Nokia 770 to the newest os 2008. Now I want to use patches > hacker2008-patches.tar.gz09:19
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NodeRazorI asume patches are newer then the image it self, right ?09:20
* KotCzarny doesn't know09:20
qwerty12Where is the location of these patches?09:20
KotCzarnycheck the timestamps09:20
NodeRazoryou will need to use your nokia mac address to login.09:20
qwerty12I only have a N800 one, ah well09:20
* qwerty12 googles09:21
NodeRazorhow does one use the patches any ways?09:21
qwerty12No idea, that's why I'm trying to search it up so I can see09:21
NodeRazoris this what I need ?09:22
NodeRazorlooks like its right =D09:22
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NodeRazorbut how to apply this to nokia 770 no clue lol09:22
saaibcheck the content of the tar.gz file09:23
NodeRazorno readme files nothing...09:23
KotCzarnyor just use fanoush kernel09:23
NodeRazorThis drives me nuts09:23
NodeRazorhow hard is it to include readme files O_o09:23
KotCzarnyunless it's something else09:23
saaibif there are complete files probably you'll just need to untar in /09:23
KotCzarnyit's a hacker edition09:23
KotCzarnyie. not for regular users09:24
KotCzarnyif you are a hacker09:24
KotCzarnyyou will know what to do09:24
NodeRazorthis is plain stupid ;-)09:24
KotCzarnyif not09:24
KotCzarnythat will save them on support calls09:24
NodeRazoreven hackers edition should include readme09:24
NodeRazorunless programmer who created this os, does not know him self LOL09:24
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saaibNodeRazor are there any release notes?09:25
NodeRazoronly INSTALL file, with...09:25
NodeRazorsudo flasher -F SU-18_2008HACKER_4.2007.50-6_PR_F5_MR0_ARM.bin -f09:25
NodeRazorthis it09:25
qwerty12Just open the tar.gz and post the first line of the patch09:25
NodeRazorjust a sec09:26
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lardman~lart Gnome browser for randomly "previewing" .au files if you accidentally place the mouse over them09:26
* infobot cuts off Gnome browser's head with a halberd that could have been a little bit sharper for randomly "previewing" .au files if you accidentally place the mouse over them09:26
NodeRazorhere >
lardmanI've scared my self a few times this morning09:27
NodeRazornote line 1 is pasted manually.09:27
NodeRazorcode starts from line three09:27
NodeRazorit looks like you use > patch alsaconf-os2008-open.patch09:28
NodeRazorbut I am not sure09:28
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NodeRazorAlso, is it possible to brick the Nokia 770 when updating or downgrading the os?09:29
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KotCzarny99.99% safe09:29
qwerty12Sounds like this one is applied to a rootfs from a N800(?) - - maybe this is relevant?09:29
NodeRazorcool, is there some kind of safty switch?09:30
KotCzarnyyes, run and hide09:31
NodeRazorSo basicly, I can flash my nokia 770 to newer or older version of os without worry that it will brick ?09:33
NodeRazor;-) Nice09:33
GeneralAntillesUnless something goes wrong during the NOLO flash09:33
NodeRazorNOLO flash?09:33
GeneralAntillesWhich is a few milliseconds09:33
GeneralAntillesso unless your computer crashes or you yank the cable in that incredibly small target window. . . .09:33
lardmanhmm, my audio file is 28.7s long according to mplayer, my sbctask decodes it in 21.22+0.17+2.06 sec09:33
NodeRazorDoes any one in here uses 2008 Hacker Edition OS ?09:34
GeneralAntillesBoth of mine are09:34
GeneralAntillesJust flash the image and move on.09:34
KotCzarnylardman: is it good or bad?09:34
lardmanKotCzarny: bad, I don't think it decodes it fast enough09:34
NodeRazorGeneralAntilles, did you notice the speed?09:34
NodeRazorGeneralAntilles, is it slower then 2006 edition?09:34
NodeRazoror 200709:34
GeneralAntillesI haven't used 2006 in a very long time09:34
GeneralAntillesIt's different09:34
KotCzarnylardman: any optimization paths available?09:34
GeneralAntillesslower in some ways faster  in others09:35
GeneralAntillesbetter overall09:35
NodeRazorok, I've just re-flashed my nokia.09:35
NodeRazorIs it ok to ./flasher -R after I flash it?09:35
NodeRazoror should I just shutdown09:35
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GeneralAntillesYou should be using 2.009:36
NodeRazorbecause I see the progress bar all the way 100%09:36
GeneralAntillesor better09:36
dieman_yay, got gps packets to my aprs tnc :)09:36
dieman_from the tablet09:36
lardmanKotCzarny: no doubt, it's currently just a straight port09:36
dieman_over bluetooth no les09:36
lardmanKotCzarny: but I thought it would be fast enough even without optimisations09:36
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qwerty12any official nokia guys around?09:36
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NodeRazorwhat should I due? reboot or shutdown after the flash?09:36
GeneralAntillesNodeRazor, the correct command is: ./flasher-2.0 -F <FIASCO image> -f -R09:36
GeneralAntilles-R reboots the tablet09:37
NodeRazorso I can safely use -R now09:37
GeneralAntillesso ./flasher-2.0 -R09:37
NodeRazorok cool09:37
NodeRazorinstead of reboot it shutdown on me09:38
NodeRazoris it ok?09:38
* qwerty12 would be lying if I said that didn't happen to me but that's because I flashed some dodgy rootfs's I cooked up09:38
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NodeRazorone more question, if I hold power button for more then 5sec. will it hard reboot or flash?09:40
saaibI flashed my 770 to 2007HE and noticed that the wifi range is limited now.09:40
saaibBefore I used to surf while on the bed, now I NEED to come to the living room in order to connect to my AP09:40
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GeneralAntillesNodeRazor, it's not a Palm09:41
GeneralAntillesThere's no such thing as a "hard reboot"09:41
GeneralAntillesThink of it like a really small laptop09:41
saaibanything in particular that I need to check? All the references I found in the maemo site is regarding decreasing wait time.09:41
NodeRazoryeah, I know09:41
NodeRazorI was just wondering, because last time I holded more then 5sec. and my wifi stoped working for some reason.09:42
saaibi mean wlan_sleep_time09:43
NodeRazorAlso, I can't seem to get WPA-PSK working on Nokia 77009:43
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amengCan I directly put the yuv data into n810's framebuffer?10:10
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amengyou mean it can display the yuv data correctly?10:11
amengwithout setup the fb device?10:11
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KotCzarnyi'm not an expert though..10:12
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lardmanameng: you tell it the format of the framebuffer when you make the call to update it10:14
opendeepKotCzarny:I installed hello-world.deb package but application Icon is not loaded, It's giving warning:Could not load icon ,icon is not present in them10:15
amenglardman:How to do this?10:15
KotCzarnyopendeep: what can i say, i don't know what to expect from hello-world.deb :)10:15
opendeepKotCzarny:It's a sample package created by fallowing
KotCzarnythen assuming you have followed tutorial step by step, it's ok10:18
lardmanameng: look at this code for example:
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_Zap__does anyone know if the current BlueZ version has the support for extended inquiries?10:20
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lardman_Zap__: what's that?10:24
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_Zap__bluez is bluetooth protocol stack10:26
_Zap__or did you mean what is extended inquiry? :)10:26
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beford is it loading?10:27
GeneralAntillesYes, beford.10:27
lardman_Zap__: the extended inquiry bit :)10:27
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befordhmm for some reason its not working on my end, gonna have to add the ip to hosts file :P10:30
RST38h"For the first time since 2003, Mozilla's FireFox looks like a modern browser, and not a skinnable memory heap testing tool."10:32
KotCzarnyi have installed 3.0rc4 yesterday10:33
KotCzarnyand it looks worse10:33
KotCzarnybut works nice10:33
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lardmanvery slow though, slower even than before10:34
lardmanesp on WinXP10:34
KotCzarnydon't know10:34
KotCzarnyi'm using it under linux10:34
lardmanyeah, seems better under Linux10:34
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RST38hstill using 2.x. still leaks.10:35
RST38hnever ever go to google analytics with it =)10:36
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RST38hI am all for an MSVC plugin that draws a turd on developer's screen every time his program uses a new[] or a malloc()10:37
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RST38hAnd *leaves* turds there if the program does not free memory on exit10:38
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KotCzarnywhat about coprophiliac programmers?10:39
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RST38hThose will program for WindowsMobile10:41
RST38hAnd nobody cares about leaks there - you reboot it more often than it runs out of memory10:42
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KotCzarnyTurd64, now with more bandwidth!10:44
KotCzarnywith dual channel architecture10:45
KotCzarnywith signalling on rise and fall10:45
KotCzarnyand quad core CTU10:45
RST38hthat one is already taken10:46
RST38hAMD Turdeon10:46
KotCzarnywasn't it triple core?10:46
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RST38hyea, it actually caused a comment from Intel10:49
trickie|workhope thats a hiccup10:49
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RST38hThat "Intel would rather make all four cores work"10:49
ljptrickie|work: it is. qtopia phone sources will be back10:50
KotCzarnytrickie: we will see in 3 weeks10:50
KotCzarnyotherwise just hunt for mirrors10:50
KotCzarnyand make a backup10:50
trickie|workyeah i think i got it stashed somewhere10:51
trickie|workljp: yeah should be fine, i have no reason not to believe them10:51
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trickie|workmust be painful for some of the trolltech people... to be 'merged' into the nokia machine10:52
trickie|workwhich is a much bigger machine :)10:52
ljpit is. we shall see how it goes. but also painful for some nokians I presume10:52
KotCzarnyi bet they got what they deserved10:52
lardman~lart crappy Gnome filemanager because every window dies if sftp:// goes down10:53
* infobot puts on some milking gloves. "All right, now, crappy Gnome filemanager because every window dies if sftp:// goes down, this won't hurt a bit...."10:53
trickie|workljp: you work with trolltech?10:54
ljpi used to be the community guy before I became an engineer10:54
trickie|workah ok... cool10:55
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lardmanhi hrw10:56
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lardmanhi trickie|work, X-Fade10:59
trickie|worklardman: yo! hows it going with your dsp hacking?10:59
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trickie|worksorta been watching, haven't had much free time since linuxtag10:59
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lardmantrickie|work: I've got sound coming out, just only ~1s worth - running too slowly10:59
* timelyx frowns11:00
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trickie|worklardman: hmmm well progress is progress i guess11:02
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lardmanyeah, heading the right way11:02
timelyxum, diablo isn't released yet, right?11:03
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zapwhat kernel was OS2008 based on?11:05
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zapdoh, I have meant 2007 :)11:08
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zapI guess this patch will fix RNDIS11:12
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trickie|workzap: that change fixes a bug introduced after 2.6.1811:17
trickie|workaccording to the commit log11:18
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zaptrickie|work: exactly, RNDIS was working in OS2007 and doesn't in OS200811:34
trickie|workzap: ah ok... i thought you were going to try and apply it for 2.6.1811:36
zapfilled a bugreport, just to not lose track of it11:36
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zapWhat a pity, a one-liner patch would solve all those XP/usb networking problems11:37
lardmanzap: are you wanting to use rndis on WinXP?11:38
zapI don't use windows, but a few of my friends do11:38
lardmanzap: you've presumably seen the linux.inf file?11:38
zapI tried hard, believe me :)11:38
lardmanand it still doesn't work even using that?11:38
zapthere are threads on different forums about it11:38
zapfor example:
lardmanfair enough11:39
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trickie|workanyone know if there is any major kernel changes in diablo? version bumps? or just wimax device support?11:41
trickie|workzap: you should get andre___ or someone to hopefully push that patch for diablo11:42
zapyes, having that in diablo is important11:42
trickie|workif its not frozen or whatever... not sure of the status these days11:42
zapin this case a 3rd party deb'ed g_ether.ko will be needed11:43
lardmansee you chaps in a bit11:43
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GAN800trickie|work, should just be IPv6 and WiMAX stuff.11:44
timelyxzap: what's the for this? :)11:44
trickie|workGAN800: ah k11:44
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timelyxkinda late... do you have enough sources to rebuild the kernel to verify that it fixes it?11:53
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zapI posted a bug report, but don't have the sources yet12:00
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zapI'll try it now, but it's the first time in my life to deal with scratchbox12:01
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zapInconsistency detected by rtld.c: 1192: dl_main: Assertion `(void *) ph->p_vaddr == _rtld_local._dl_sysinfo_dso' failed!12:07
zapAnybody knows what's this? (Fedora 9)12:07
beforddisable vdso12:07
trickie|workecho 0 > /proc/sys/vm/vdso_enabled12:08
trickie|workor something like that12:08
zaphmm, no /proc/sys/vm/vdso_enabled here12:09
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kulvezgrep VDSO /proc/config.gz12:09
zapI must enable or disable vdso?12:10
zapwill try vdso=0 on kernel command line12:11
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timelyxzap: thanks12:11
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NodeRazorDoes Nokia 770 support 4gb rs-mmc or mmcmobile cards ?12:14
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NodeRazoror just 2gb....12:14
zapsame thing :(12:14
befordoh, fedora uses selinux right?12:15
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NodeRazorhere what it says in wiki > Option for extended virtual memory (RS-MMC up to 1 GiB (2GiB after flash upgrade))12:15
befordI think you need to disable that too12:15
NodeRazorbeford, yes12:15
NodeRazorbeford, you can disable it12:15
GAN800NodeRazor, do 4GB rs-mmcs even exist? :/12:15
trickie|workzap: im building you a kernel with the patch12:15
NodeRazorsorry for big link12:16
NodeRazorhere >
NodeRazorI am just not sure if it will support it ....12:17
zaptrickie|work: thank you alot12:17
NodeRazorbeford, here is how to disable selinux >
zapbeford: I disabled selinux long ago12:17
zapI have selinux=0 vdso=0 on kernel command line12:19
befordcat /proc/sys/vm/vdso_enabled ?12:20
zapI can just recompile scratchbox, I think12:20
zapthere's no such file12:20
befordoh hmm12:21
trickie|workzap: try
trickie|workjust stock maemo kernel with that one patch12:21
zapthe patch is for g_ether.ko?12:21
zapis it statically linked into the kernel?12:21
trickie|workah pff12:22
trickie|workof course12:22
trickie|workhang on12:22
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zapstrace shows me:12:26
zapopen("/scratchbox/etc/", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)12:26
zapwritev(2, [{"Inconsistency detected by .......12:26
NodeRazoris there a x64 version of 0xFFFF12:26
NodeRazorwith gui12:27
GAN800NodeRazor, MicroSD != rs-mmc12:27
GAN800gui? . . .12:28
trickie|workzap: the patch, and the patch that introduced the bug do not apply cleanly12:28
trickie|workzap: doesn't build straight up12:28
NodeRazorGAN800, WHAT?12:29
trickie|workim at work, so i can play later... but for now  i gotta get back to it12:29
NodeRazorRS-MMC is not MicroSD12:29
zaptrickie|work: sad and strange12:30
mbufxpcom is available for maemo?12:31
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* GAN800 is really confused now.12:32
RST38hrs-mmc uses different voltages12:32
RST38hIf I remember correctly12:32
AStormalthough these are in a range available to MicroSD controller12:33
RST38halthough the interface is the same12:33
AStormprotocol level conversion is very easy12:33
GAN800I'm not sure how somebody comes to the conclusion that rs-mmc is the same thing as MiniSD12:33
RST38hthey look about the same12:35
GAN800Not really.12:35
RST38hso if you are not looking close enough they will be the same to you12:35
AStormthey're different in shape12:35
AStormalso, no one makes miniSD now12:36
GAN800rs-mmc looks like an sd card cut in half.12:36
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trickie|workzap: try
zapoh, surprise! :)12:43
trickie|workdon't tell my boss12:43
trickie|workzap: it probably will not change the situation, but just added some changes from the original patch that broke it and the fix12:43
trickie|worksee if it works12:43
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zap:( same ass13:16
johnxGeneralAntilles, agreed13:16
johnxIt would help answer "Is maemo opensource?" If *I* even was sure what the name maemo included13:16
GAN800'Maemo SW marketing team @ Nokia'13:17
infobotGAN800 meant: weird13:17
RST38hMay I ask a stupid question?13:19
trickie|workzap: no go? must be something in the bigger original patch13:19
johnxRST38h, only if you're sure it's a stupid question :)13:20
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pekujadoes infobot actually do regexes on previous lines?13:20
RST38hWhy would you need to "build a strong Maemo brand" when Maemo is just a code name for Nokia's ITOS?13:20
inzpekuja, it only does string replacement, not real regexes13:20
johnxuhm...cause it's not really13:21
GeneralAntillesmaemo isn't a codename for ITOS13:21
RST38hIn fact, why would you even need to make ITOS a brand when Nokia sells devices rather than OS?13:21
infobotpekuja meant: dues infobot actually do regexes on previous lines?13:21
GeneralAntillesIt's a development platform.13:21
infobotpekuja meant: dues infubut actually du regexes un previuus lines?13:21
RST38hOk, it is a development platform for ITOS13:21
pekuja(sorry. I'll stop playing now)13:21
RST38hIt is the ONLY development platform for ITOS right now, it's not competing with other platforms13:21
GeneralAntillesNah, not quite, it's a development platform that's USED for ITOS13:21
RST38hSo, where does the brand thing play out?13:21
GeneralAntillesI don't know.13:22
GeneralAntillesand, no, nobody else uses it right now.13:22
johnxRST38h, some parts of maemo *can* and *are* used on other platforms13:22
RST38hThen why do you have a wiki page about building it asa brand? :)13:22
GeneralAntillesWell, parts.13:22
RST38hjohnx: yea, I know13:22
GeneralAntillesRST38h, I don't.13:22
RST38hHildon. In Moblin.13:22
RST38hGA: Who came up with the page then?13:22
GeneralAntillesMr. Peter Schneider does13:22
GeneralAntillesSee the signature, RST38h. :)13:22
RST38hAnyone I know? =)13:22
GeneralAntilles"--peterschneider 08:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)"13:23
GeneralAntilles"peterschneider is heading the Maemo SW marketing team @ Nokia"13:23
GeneralAntillesWhatever that is.13:23
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RST38hthis sounds more like a B2B job13:23
zaptrickie|work: what exactly have you patched? As far as I understand, the only thing that should be applied is that one-liner patch13:24
RST38hAs in "Let us talk HTC into using Maemo SW and see them overtake Nokia"13:24
RST38h[or fail miserably]13:24
trickie|workzap: adding that one line breaks compile as the 'n' var is not in the original source13:24
trickie|workso i added the change that introduced the 'n'13:24
trickie|workbut not the rest of the patch, as some hunks failed, and i didn't really have time to look further13:25
timelyxmbuf: err. microb which is part of os2008 is built on gecko which is built on xpcom...13:26
zapokay, thank you. I'll try to make scratchbox work first, and then I'll look at it13:26
trickie|workzap: i think with a little work 0cf4f2de0a0f4100795f38ef894d4910678c74f8 could applied13:26
trickie|workand then the one liner13:26
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trickie|workzap: have fun :)13:26
zaphehe =)))13:26
timelyxGAN800: fwiw, i think the url you pointed to is going to get a lot funnier eventually13:27
zapembedded development always tempted me :)13:27
inzthat introduced the 'n'13:27
inz13:25 < trickie|work> but not the rest of the patch, as some hunks failed, and i didn't really have time to look further13:27
inz13:25 < zap> aha13:27
zapinz: do you experience this problem?13:27
inzzap, no, I just have problems with PuTTY13:28
lardmanIf anyone's bored, take a look at my email to the dev list and see if you can spot a mistake in my logic about ARM->DSP transfer speeds (and ask because I've probably not explained myself enough)13:35
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rm_youlardman: ah, I wish I knew enough to help :(13:38
rm_youhow is it going?13:38
timelyxrm_you: did you say high to gavin? he thought you were a ghost :(13:39
andre___zap: let me see what i can do about 3243 - thanks for the report13:39
lardmanrm_you: sound output, but only a little bit13:39
rm_youtimelyx: lol13:39
rm_youtimelyx: was that on foxymonkies?13:39
rm_youI got a highlight from SOMEONE but it scrolled off before I woke up :(13:40
rm_youlardman: :(13:40
lardmanrm_you: it can be fixed, just need to look at speeding up the code, assuming that's the problem13:40
rm_youjust gave him a shoutout :)13:40
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trickie|workzap: the patch that broke RNDIS is part of a series, i think you may have to apply the whole series13:43
trickie|workzap: or pick out the correct changes from the series13:43
trickie|workzap: i mangled the patch from 0cf4f2de0a0f4100795f38ef894d4910678c74f8 to apply, but it needs changes from the patch series it came in i think13:45
trickie|workzap: i believe13:45
trickie|workill try and apply them and see what happens :)13:46
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pupnikrm_you /lastlog rm_you TO FIND IT13:50
pupniksorry vnc has stuck caps lock13:50
lcuk_zzlardman, is there any chance that you are encoding MUCH more than a frame of data at a time -ie instead of just dealing with (for instance) 1200kb you are  processing 4800kb, or repeating a block or something?13:50
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pupniknice>  i want to go to work at noon13:51
lcuk_worklol ive been here all morning, i just managed to get on now13:51
pupnik:) OK jk13:51
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rm_youpupnik: that didn't do anything? :(13:51
lcuk_workbut its a godo idea13:51
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mbuftimelyx, thanks!13:56
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trickie|workzap: again no guarantees it will not eat your mother14:03
zapI won't tell your boss14:03
trickie|workbut that has more of that patch series applied14:03
GAN800What's this fixation some people have on restricting developer's from developing what they feel like developing. :/14:07
GAN800Largely an itT phenomenon14:08
johnxGAN800, I think it's a confusion about how OSS projects are run14:08
GAN800people complaining that there are too many media players and the developer's shouldn't make them.14:08
johnxI know I had the same confusion 10 years ago or so14:08
GAN800johnx I'm unfamiliar with it.14:09
johnxSomehow it's difficult for people to grasp the idea that no one is "telling them what to do" I think14:09
johnxalso, everyone loves to be armchair managers14:10
GAN800A bit of the 'if these resources weren't going to all these separate projects they would all be going to one perfect project'?14:10
trickie|workzap: hmmm, you may even need to use to load that module... not sure14:10
GAN800AbelMN always cracks me up. He's like a Darius Jr.14:11
trickie|workzap: but you can boot (and not flash) the kernel to test the module using the flasher14:11
johnxGAN800, my second favorite one is "I wish I could help, but I don't know how to program."14:11
zaptrickie: it loads fine with default kernel14:11
johnxGAN800, It's like, "yeah well neither did I...until I sat down and *&$%ing learned"14:11
johnxwhenever someone says that I translate it as "I'd like you to think I care, but I can't be bothered to put time or effort into it."14:13
timelyxjohnx: really?14:13
timelyxwhat's wrong w/ "i wish i can help, i can't program, but i'll offer someone $100 to help do X"14:13
timelyxpeople should be taught that it isn't fair to say "i wish i can help, but i can't"14:13
timelyxif they want to say something, it should be "here's how i can help"14:14
timelyxif that means offering encouragement, that's still something14:14
johnxalso, "I'd like to help with documentation" is a *great*14:14
timelyxjohnx: heh14:14
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johnxIt's only the people who ask for something but aren't willing to put in any effort on their part14:15
GAN800Meh, who cares about asking. What bothers me are the people with overwhelming senses of entitlement who DEMAND.14:16
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wizaGAN800: yeah, as a programmer myself, I usually offer to just pay14:16
timelyxGAN800: i think i've stopped reading maemo-devel because of that14:17
timelyxi need to write my blog post about it14:17
wizaI've been developing for web too long, I suck at other kind of projects :)14:17
wiza-occasional patch and testing14:17
GeneralAntillesitT is like -devel x100014:18
onionwiza: heh, welcome14:19
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onionwiza: you have a tablet now ?14:20
wizaonion: well, they finally added the keyboard and no slide-out qwerty phones with linux out from HTC yet14:20
wizaonion: yep, I've had n810 for couple of weeks now14:20
wizaonion: no need to take laptop with me everytime I leave from home for the weekend, which is like everyother weekend =)14:21
opendeepI am getting fallowing warning when I running sample hello-world application after installing hello-maemo.deb package14:21
opendeephildon-desktop[7385]: GLIB DEBUG default - Could not load icon 'bablu_icon_26                                     ': Icon 'bablu_icon_26                                     ' not present in theme14:21
opendeepAny one help me14:22
onionwiza: happy with it ?14:22
wizaonion: bought 3g phone too, after my employer bought us 384kbps 3g data connections to our phone contracts14:22
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wizaonion: well, I can use email, web(facebook \o/), im and irc, so what's not to like, I also tested wayfinder last weekend on my pori - asikkala - kurikka - pori trip14:23
wizanot so much looking at the screen since I was riding my bike but it kept gps fix even in my jacket pocket14:24
wizawhile going 140 kph :p14:24
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onionwiza: you use it for navigation ?14:25
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wizaonion: yep, it just takes cigaret or two to get the initial fix14:27
wizaonion: I'm thinking about paying for wayfinder, just used up the 7 day trial14:28
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onionwiza: well, it's slow to get a fix.. I still prefer my bt gps14:28
wizaonion: but after it has the fix, it doesn't loose it14:29
onionwiza: true14:29
wizaonion: I had it for over 100kms in my bikejackets inside pocket and it still had the fix14:30
wizaonion: I'm just waiting for proper a2dp support, currently I listen music from my phone while driving14:30
wizaso I mostly use it as a map that knows where I am14:30
onionwiza: mapper or maemo-mapper can do that for free14:31
wizaonion: doesn't that need internet connection for routing?14:31
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wizaI still like to check where I should go14:31
onionwiza: for now, but mapper will get proper offline routing some day14:33
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wizaonion: any work being done on it?14:35
wizaonion: maybe I just gonna buy wayfinder for montly basis14:35
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onionwiza: no, no right now.. I'm rewriting a bunch of stuff into proper widgets and gobjects14:37
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wizaonion: yep, my problem is that I don't always have internet connection, sometimes I'm in places where even gprs doesn't work properly14:43
wizaonion: is there proper maps for finland somewhere, and don't say openstreetmap :D14:44
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timelyxwiza: some finish group made maps available14:46
inzis there any way to use n810 to put stuff to osm?14:46
onionwiza: well, you can always use google maps14:47
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onionwiza: and nokia released some special .fi maps14:47
timelyxlardman, gan800, et al have you seen:
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zaptrickie|work: I have installed a windoz tool that will show flowing USB requests... afer PC sends the first RNDIS request down to the device there's no response...14:48
GAN800timelyx, just got the blanking bug scrolling horizontally there. ;)14:49
* timelyx grumbles14:50
GAN800Anyway, no, I have not seen it. What is it?14:51
* timelyx shrugs14:51
timelyxi didn't write it recently, so i don't remember :)14:51
timelyxhave a look ;-)14:51
trickie|workzap: hmmm ok, well that patche series didn't apply very well to the maemo src, so i just mangled it as best i could... might have missed something... or there are later changes that need to be be brought in also14:51
trickie|workzap: sorry, im out of ideas :)14:52
zapno problems :)14:52
johnxthe info for ctrl is great :D14:53
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GAN800Looks useful, anyway.14:53
johnxctrl - "you aren't using a real keyboard"14:53
wizaonion: you know about any fon/wippies autologin apps?14:53
* GAN800 files it as reference material for the triager's guide.14:53
johnxbut yes, this is good info14:53
johnxit answers my questions about official terminology for the vkb and fkb14:54
pekujawippies annoyed the hell out of me when I was trying to connect to my own network but kept getting connected to my neighbour's wippies ap >__<14:54
onionwiza: sorry, no14:55
wizaonion: damn14:55
onionwiza: I know.. it's a pain to login to spark here14:55
wizaI've actually broadcasting 5 essids in my apartment... :p14:56
trickie|workzap: maybe a trace of usb requests attached to the bug will help14:56
lcuk_workpekuja, :) then you should cancel your ISP subscription and just use your neighbours: Nokia internet tablet:- saving you internet bills since 200514:56
trickie|workzap: using default kernel + module14:56
zapI'll attach a trace14:57
timelyxpersonally i think i like the description for "app" :)14:57
pekujalcuk_work, hehe. well you have to pay for wippies, don't you?14:57
pekujathere's a web based login system14:58
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trickie|worktimelyx: ha, i agree... useful doc15:00
wizascripting the autologin would actually be easy, just little python w/ curl etc... but how to make tablet automatically connect all fon/wippies hotspots15:00
timelyxX-Fade, is there anything from that i should act on?15:06
timelyxtrickie|work: i have a bunch of docs obviously :(15:09
* timelyx also has a bunch of random empty files15:09
lardmanlcuk_work: I think not, I simple encode whatever is passed to the fn15:10
lardmanlcuk_work: which is ~512 8bit bytes in and ~120 out iirc15:10
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timelyxandre___: you'll probably want to read through these urls at some point :)15:12
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herwooddoes anybody know a good tutorial or example for creating destructor for my own widget?15:13
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timelyxNavi: i'm not really sure what the status of regular browser binaries would be15:21
timelyxi know that getting first approval for the beta was a pain15:21
timelyxbut we were able to do a couple of updates w/ less paperwork15:22
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timelyxi think in the end the reason we didn't do weekly stuff was that it required significant manual labor and we didn't really have any capacity to handle any responses15:22
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timelyx(and the person doing that labor was actually the primary engineer, so he shouldn't have been doing it ... otherwise no engineering gets done)15:23
timelyxgiven that diablo ssu is clearly able to ship updates to the browser for "free" (i.e. no effort required of the browser team)15:23
timelyxi think we'd hope that ssu would continue and a more formalized system (i.e. some advertisement and possibly a barrier to entry) could be established15:24
timelyxthe barrier is a personal preference. i don't want the itt demands people bothering us15:24
johnxI think we can all agree on that15:24
* timelyx finds an email w/ no title, no message, and a 2k attachment15:25
johnxalso, that sounds like really positive news15:25
timelyxnote: this isn't news and it certainly isn't a formal position15:25
johnxright, of course15:25
timelyxi do know and believe it's fairly public that ssu is a goal for the future15:26
johnxpositive mumblings then :)15:26
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timelyxafaiu the goal is that the next thing after diablo would be officially available via ssu15:26
timelyxbut that's probably diablo sr15:26
timelyxif chinook is 4.0, and diablo is 4.1, then that'd be 4.1.115:26
timelyxand there's of course no guarantee such a thing will exist15:27
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johnxso like I said then, "positive mumblings" :)15:30
* timelyx nods15:30
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timelyxandre___: could you or someone like you please find or file a bug to match 116315:31
timelyxit's annoying that it hasn't made its way somewhere15:31
mgedminlcuk_work: this may be somewhat interesting for you:
* timelyx kicks a web browser "wake up!"15:32
mgedminpeople made webkit work on opengl, with no requirement of a conventional UI toolkit15:32
timelyxmgedmin: bah, crystalzilla showed that was possible years ago15:33
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* timelyx frowns15:40
timelyx11:38 thp qgil: for closed packages, there should be a defined, documented way of reporting bugs and sending improvements that can be dealt with15:40
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GAN800I love it that HAVA will run fine for 8 hours when I fall asleep with it on, but can't manage 30 minutes when I'm actually watching it.15:40
timelyxdid i miss something? is there some component (ignoring skype/rhaposdy) where we don't have handling?15:41
johnxGAN800, that means the DRM is working :D15:41
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GAN800I didn't get the comments in #630 about that either.15:42
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GAN800The 'getting the developer's involved' bug15:42
timelyxi read that bug <1hr ago15:42
timelyxi can't really remember it15:43
timelyxsad thing is, i've also commented in it15:43
GAN800Quim seems to be going a little more black and white with than what I think most people are after.15:44
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timelyxjohnx/gan800: have you guys started trying to drive fennec ui ? :)15:45
wizahas anyone tried devicescape? it seems to be able to login automatically to fon and wippies15:45
johnxtimelyx, hmm? I installed it a month ago maybe15:46
johnxmidori seems much more promising to me though, IMHO15:46
GAN800Haven't touched it since the original release however long ago it was.15:46
timelyxi'm asking because it's probably a closer fit to our future, so if you got in early (now)15:47
timelyxyou could try to shape how it works before it became popular here :)15:47
* timelyx is done reading maemo-meeting, for possibly not the first time15:48
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GAN800We're getting close to that time for the next one. . . .15:49
johnxso maybe Nokia will actually do an open source browser top-to-bottom this time? or will they bolt a non-free UI onto fennec again?15:49
* GAN800 pokes X-Fade about maemo-meeting.15:51
timelyxjohnx: i wouldn't know15:53
timelyxbut personally, if you make fennec better than microb, i'll use fennec15:53
timelyxmy mac ships w/ safari, but i use camino15:53
timelyxbecause it's better15:53
GAN800Mr. Safari 1.x :P15:54
johnxI will probably poke at getting the hildonizations working on a newer midori release if I have time15:54
* GAN800 slaps rm_you with a clue.15:54
MangoFusioni just use safari. keeping it simple ;)15:54
rm_youGAN800: I have been out of the loop for like 6 months remember? :P15:55
timelyxGAN800: hey, i can't run the latest version of camino either15:55
timelyxfair's fair :)15:55
rm_youi just got back15:55
GAN800Fennec seems to have a very long way to go before it's usable.15:55
johnxand the memory usage seems pretty high15:55
GAN800I'd like to see Nokia get wise about tablet-browser-ui15:56
rm_youwhat repo are fennec and midori in? and what ARE they? :P15:57
rm_yousomeone fill me in15:57
johnxfennec = mobile firefox browser, midori = webkit based browser15:57
johnxsearch itt :P15:57
GAN800rm_you's google is broken.15:57
* rm_you cant run web browsers on my PC15:57
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rm_youand my bluetooth keyboard is out of batteries15:57
johnxrm_you, no web browser on your PC? eh?15:58
rm_youitt on tablet makes me cry15:58
rm_youjohnx: PC is utterly @#*(ed15:58
GAN800You should just give up aleady and go live in the Alaskan wilderness. :P15:58
rm_youi'm running IRC on it, but thats about all i can do15:58
johnxI hear they get wimax up there in Alaska, actually15:58
GAN800rm_you, set the theme to 'classic'15:58
rm_youthe drives are so fragmented that all of my browsers lock up on load15:58
timelyxfwiw, the file i was looking for is
rm_youand it takes about 60+ seconds to load a SMALL picture file15:58
rm_youi'm trying to burn / copy files off my hard drives to free up space and then do some defrag15:59
GAN800Hi, Khertan. :)15:59
johnxrm_you, have 2 cd drives?15:59
rm_youjohnx: no :(16:00
rm_youjohnx: thought of that16:00
johnxsadness :/16:00
rm_youi have dual boot, but the linux side is more @*(&$ed than the windows side16:00
rm_youno X at the moment and takes about 20 minutes to boot cause it hangs on some broken driver for like 19 minutes16:00
rm_youprolly the nvidia driver :/16:00
rm_youbut there doesnt seem to be a working version at all of it, last time i checked16:01
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rm_youhardy + 8800GT != happy, apparently16:01
rm_youfennec repo is offline? >_> according to gronmayer16:02
GAN800Woo, repo hell!16:02
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johnxeh, just multiple points of failure :)16:03
rm_youand midori isn't in any repos? <_<16:04
johnxuhm, it's on itt16:04
johnxI'll take pity and link you to the thread16:04
mbufwhat could i be missing, if i don't have dh_make in CHINOOK_ARMEL, when I have it in CHINOOK_X86?16:04
johnxI don't remember off the top of my head but you can check with dpkg -S dh_make on CHINOOK_X8616:05
KhertanMy N810 Come Back !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YEAH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!16:05
johnxdid it wander off?16:05
GAN800lol . . . <_< How'd that idiot make it there from wikipedia.16:05
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mbufjohnx, "/scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set"16:07
KhertanHi GAN80016:07
Khertanrm_you > Hardy + whatyouwant != happy16:08
* rm_you wants Midori because it shares a name with his favorite liquor :)16:08
johnxGAN800, his tone (and grammar) aren't the best, but I would actually like to know the answer16:08
Khertanapt-get install pycrypto16:09
Khertanoups ww16:09
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GAN800johnx, yeah, that's the entire pupose of the page. ;)16:10
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GAN800He's managed to be redundant and stupid.16:11
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johnxGAN800, ah, I thought he started the page16:14
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johnxI didn't look at anything but the talk page16:16
GAN800He's the guy that recommended merging maemo and Internet Tablet OS right after we split them. <_<16:16
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sp3000rm_you: looks like it's chinook release and not chinook extras, now16:17
sp3000but I fell on a libidl0 dependency16:17
sp3000<rm_you>fennec repo is offline? >_> according to gronmayer16:18
sp3000hmm, "extras-devel"16:18
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sp3000oh, great16:22
sp3000which of course in turn depends on cpp fro yarr (yet another rcking repository)16:23
rm_youi always heard people talking about numpty-physics16:23
rm_youi thought it was a numerical python physics library16:23
rm_youcause i missed the "t" i guess16:23
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rm_youwas never clear on why people thought it was so awesome16:23
timelyxmostly because it's fairly amazing :)16:24
timelyxmanaging random objects it hasn't met before in a reasonable way16:24
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sp3000"Your search - random-object-manager - did not match any documents. "16:25
* sp3000 was expecting api docs to some java class full of evil16:26
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sp3000oh well, I can take comfort in that random-object-factory wins16:27
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rm_youhave to say, fennec loads WAAAAAY slower16:30
rm_youbut looks a lot nicer16:30
rm_youi think midori is faster tho16:30
aquarius-is there some repo with kismet for N810 already?16:31
* sp3000 crashes fennec16:33
Anunakinaquarius-: yes16:34
aquarius-Anunakin: that's great... and which one is it?16:34
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GeneralAntillestimelyx, what do you make of this?
GeneralAntillesGot that trying to submit a post.16:37
* sp3000 crashes fennec some more16:38
sp3000GeneralAntilles: is your / full?16:39
GeneralAntillesI had 70MB+ when I checked a few days ago.16:40
sp3000I like the untranslated ok button string without a button :)16:40
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GeneralAntilles78MB available16:40
GeneralAntillesUnless something's filling it up that the Memory applet isn't counting.16:40
sp3000I'd look at df16:42
sp3000but it's probably not too far off I suppose16:42
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GeneralAntillesSays 82488 available16:42
sp3000oops, I have 10M16:42
GeneralAntillesSo, no, it's not full.16:42
* sp3000 should do something16:42
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timelyxGeneralAntilles, sp3000: ping16:43
timelyxplease read 140 and let me know how it reads16:43
timelyxi need to split it a bit into 139/14016:44
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timelyxyeah, it's a blog entry number16:48
timelyxask sp3000 for a url, but don't share it16:48
timelyxit isn't finished16:48
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GeneralAntillesType on your parenthesis under section 2, heading 3, paragraph 2.16:55
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Typo on your parenthesis under section 2, heading 3, paragraph 2.16:56
GeneralAntilles(how ironic)16:56
GeneralAntillesbar[ier] -> bar[rier]16:58
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GeneralAntillesbugif -> bug if17:02
GeneralAntilles"guided" is a little awkward. Should probably be "the guided submission form" or something similar.17:02
timelyx. .17:03
timelyxbtw, if you think some of this should move to 139, let me know17:03
timelyxin general, i try to have problems in odd articles and solutions in even articles17:03
GeneralAntillesAh, crap, midgard's locked. dneary, how do I get the raw wiki code again? :\17:04
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GeneralAntillestimelyx, I'm gonna move the codenames page over to the mediawiki.17:05
timelyxGeneralAntilles: fine by me, but someone needs to fix bugzilla17:05
timelyxif you have a url you want to use, please let me know before i do stuff17:05
GeneralAntillesI'll poke guenther about it.17:05
timelyxpreferably pick the url early so this and bugzilla will have it right17:05
GeneralAntillesIt'll be there.17:06
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johnxtimelyx, I think 139 and 140 make a good one-two punch :)17:08
timelyxok, 140 points there. can you fix bugzilla when you move it? if not, i can...17:09
timelyxjohnx: ok.17:09
GeneralAntillesI can't, somebody else needs to.17:09
* timelyx goes off to whack a ===17:09
GeneralAntillesI'd prefer 139 to be a little more verbose17:09
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GeneralAntillesbut that's mostly a personal preference.17:09
timelyxerr yeah17:09
timelyxi would prefer more balance too17:09
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timelyxsuggestions for what to move from 140 are greatly appreciated :)17:10
johnxI'd save 140 until someone bitches/questions *after* reading 13917:10
johnx140 *will* cause a flamewar17:10
johnxthere is no doubt in my mind :)17:10
timelyx140 was originally a series of messages actually17:10
timelyxthankfully they moved off the list17:10
timelyxyou'll note that my blog does not offer comments17:11
timelyxif people want to comment, they should get their own blog space :)17:11
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johnxaside: I dearly wish Nokia had setup their own moderated forum for users...17:11
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timelyxforum nokia was supposed to do that17:11
timelyxhowever it's not for users17:11
johnxthat's the key17:11
timelyxi'm not sure it'd help17:11
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timelyxcan you find 10 real "users"?17:12
timelyxthink sodom and g'mora17:12
timelyxif you don't, i'll turn the place to ashes :)17:12
johnxwe have itt, where people complain about nokia stuff and get told "tell Nokia" and we have maemo-dev which is not really meant for users17:12
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timelyxjohnx: take a detour and read 142 :)17:12
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timelyxthat's actually part two in my series17:13
timelyxi can't remember where part 1 is17:13
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timelyx142 isn't finished17:13
timelyx138 should be17:14
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GeneralAntillesI'd quote this: use bugzilla "users"?17:14
* timelyx tries to find that17:14
GeneralAntillesLast heading before People, Roles, and Responsibilities.17:14
GeneralAntillesRight now it sounds like bugzilla-users?17:15
timelyxyeah... fixed17:15
timelyxalthough i might just rewrite it17:15
timelyxWho isn't a user?17:15
timelyxbut that doesn't really work for the paragraph17:15
timelyxperhaps What are the people involved in ...?17:16
GeneralAntilles~lart midgard wiki17:16
* infobot shoots midgard wiki in his sleep17:16
GeneralAntillesHow appropriate17:16
timelyxWell I can tell you they aren't *users*.17:16
johnxtimelyx, you write some very creative stuff O_o17:17
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timelyxthanks :)17:18
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* timelyx wonders if johnx finished 142 or 13817:18
rm_youGeneralAntilles: !!!17:19
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johnxI didn't see where 142 was going until openssl was mentioned17:19
timelyxhave you seen my explanations of crashing as experienced by Wile E Cyote?17:19
rm_youtimelyx, GeneralAntilles:
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rm_youtimelyx: is what he's saying right?17:19
rm_youi thought you said it WAS in a GtkMenu?17:19
timelyxno, i said it was acting like one17:20
johnxI almost hate to say I was right...17:20
rm_youwhat i got out of that conversation was verification that it was in fact in a heavily modified GtkMenu17:21
timelyxno very modified widget that acts like a menu :)17:21
* rm_you goes back to the drawing board17:21
timelyxthe point's still the same.. someone should contribute it so that people don't have to reinvent it17:21
* andre___ takes a look at the two things timelyx poked him about17:22
rm_youif i can get it...17:22
timelyxjohnx: gah, i spotted a typo in 142.417:22
andre___timelyx, what's ? it's empty here17:22
timelyxandre___: hrm17:23
rm_youwait, is it not even a hildon_desktop_popup_window !?17:23
rm_youis it JUST a gtk_window?17:23
timelyxi think it's just a gobject or gtk object17:23
timelyxremember, i'm timelyx17:23
timelyxi can't see any of that :)17:23
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rm_youyeah so the stuff he posted is exactly what I already tried17:24
rm_youand it doesnt affect the look or behavior of the window *at all*17:24
timelyxyeah, um...17:25
timelyxthere are at least 3 more functions17:25
timelyxto handle key stuff17:25
timelyxand other things17:25
rm_youGeneralAntilles: can you do what he said and post a bug requesting an example of how to do the statusbar applet with sliders?17:25
rm_youI need to go to sleep <_<17:25
GeneralAntillesGo, go.17:26
GeneralAntillesI'll see to whatever17:26
rm_youfriend just went to work again, need to be awake when he comes back lol17:26
timelyxandre___: i need to change users17:26
GeneralAntilles I'll make this not suck and be ugly and unreadable in a bit.17:26
rm_youGeneralAntilles: "In this case I guess you should make a bug about having example code for17:26
rm_youcreating a Hildon (statusbar) menu with sliders."17:26
rm_youhe's right tho :/17:26
johnx'night rm_you . Sorry it didn't work out for you :(17:26
rm_youanyway, time to sleep17:26
rm_younight johnx17:26
timelyx(using more than one account is such a terrible idea)17:26
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timelyx(i have calendars with different access by user, mails that aren't properly synced, and docs w/ different access)17:27
timelyxoh great, google docs hung my browser17:29
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GeneralAntillesThe first sentence of "Isn't this like internal company beta testing?" is really messed up.17:31
GeneralAntillesOK, not really messed up, but missing a word or two.17:31
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timelyxthere used to be a code word there17:33
timelyxit got nuked on advice of counsel :)17:33
* timelyx removes the word "which"17:33
timelyxis that sufficient to fix it?17:34
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timelyxandre___: do you have a google (docs) account?17:35
andre___google account: yes. docs? hmm... do i have to enable something?17:36
timelyxwhat's your address17:36
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andre___timelyx: andre.klapper17:36
andre___works now17:37
timelyxwow, that's cool :)17:37
timelyxit's a really old file17:37
* GeneralAntilles loves it when backspace sends back from a text box.17:37
* qwerty12 is used to it on the tablets17:37
andre___timelyx, let me take a look later on :)17:38
andre___thanks in adavnce17:38
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timelyxit's just an old log... i can't remember why it's there17:39
timelyxit might be for me to file bugs against bmo17:39
timelyxor it might be for some other reason17:39
timelyxatm, i'm slightly more interested in finalizing 139/14017:40
* RST38h has just done English part-of-speech recognition17:40
RST38hSurprisingly good results for such a dumb pattern matching piece of code17:40
timelyxrst38h: Buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo17:40
sp3000GeneralAntilles, timelyx: codenames as linked from bugzilla should probably be a table with x.y in a column and the z.yyyy.ww-aa laid out in a visually scannable manner (as annoying as tables generally are)17:41
RST38hWell, fortunately, newspaper hacks do not report on buffalos too much =)17:42
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GeneralAntillessp3000, this close?
* timelyx rotfl17:42
RST38hor I would be in trouble17:42
summatusmentisnolo - NOkia BOotloader am I the only one confused by this?17:42
timelyxor we could link to wikipedia17:42
timelyxsummatusmentis: NOkia bootLOader :))17:43
summatusmentisyour codenames wiki says otherwise :-P17:43
GeneralAntillesrofl, I think I did that, summatusmentis. :D17:43
RST38hNOOOLO - nOkia bOOtlOader!17:43
RST38hOr even OBOOLO17:43
GeneralAntillessummatusmentis, I've got a giant edit pending. :P17:44
timelyxis the way i did it w/o tables because my syntax doesn't support tables :)17:44
andre___timelyx, that link i already know :)17:44
summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: ok, fair enough. I just fixed the bootloader thing, because it was bugging me :)17:45
sp3000GeneralAntilles: yeah, although the notes column pushes it to the "tables suck" territory17:45
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GeneralAntillesDo we want to maintain a separate Codenames_bugzilla for visual cleanliness?17:45
GeneralAntillessp3000, deleting the date column should help.17:46
timelyxthe date column's fairly useful17:46
GeneralAntillesOr not. :D17:46
timelyxalthough if you made the release column have titles that read as dates17:46
timelyxthat'd be fine17:46
* sp3000 thinks the wikipedia custom of linking dates is useless and silly17:47
sp3000(entirely unrelated)17:47
* timelyx agrees17:47
GeneralAntillessp3000, yeah, but it's tradition. ;)17:47
timelyxwhen did they start linking to year-month pairs?17:47
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timelyxi remember them as always linking to them individual17:47
timelyxly - just to annoy me17:47
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GeneralAntillestimelyx, it depends on the editor, I guess.17:47
GeneralAntillesI linked those to pairs.17:48
timelyxpairs is a lot more useful17:48
timelyxi didn't know they existed though17:48
timelyxof course, it's the difference between absolutely useless and almost entirely useless :)17:48
timelyxGeneralAntilles: note that Q2 is a bad link :)17:49
KhertanDo you have hear about the new apple service mobileme ?17:50
GeneralAntillestimelyx, laziness.17:50
GeneralAntillesFeel free to poke at it and make it less sucky. :P17:50
KhertanIt should be a great idea to make something similar for Maemo Tablette17:50
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RST38hKhertan: have you heard of any google services?17:51
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timelyxGeneralAntilles: sorry, anything else for 140?17:52
timelyxor a suggestion about how to rebalance 139/14017:52
sp3000timelyx: there doesn't appear to be a better Q2 than that, oddly enough17:52
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timelyxsp3000: q2 doesn't last very long17:53
timelyxmight as well link to june :)17:53
GeneralAntillesI've got nothing for 139/140, didn't notice any more typos.17:53
timelyxunless nokia calendars are special17:53
timelyxthanks for the read17:54
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KhertanRST38h > yes ... but agenda don't sync task not contact17:55
Khertanand i know it ... as i'm dev mCalendar ... which sync with a google calendar :)17:55
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RST38hSo, what is different with Apple's implementation?17:56
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Khertanapple -> mail/agenda/contact/bookmark/ and some other little things17:57
Khertangoogle -> mail/agenda17:57
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Khertanthe two need tasks :)17:57
Khertanat this time i use google agenda (with mCalendar) and rememberthemilk (with mTasks)17:58
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Khertanbut a unified interface with all this thing could be great17:58
GeneralAntillesOK, slightly less suck.
GeneralAntillesNeed to grab the wikitable class for Common.css. . . .17:59
Khertanmaybe i'm the only one interested by this ...17:59
RST38hKhertan: Google also offers contacts and bookmarks18:00
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KhertanRST38h ?18:01
Khertanhu ?18:01
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Khertanwhere to ?18:01
timelyxGeneralAntilles: got a anchored link for bugzilla?18:01
timelyxalso, there's a minor problem18:02
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timelyxbecause you have no grid18:02
summatusmentisKhertan: you have your n810 back?18:02
GeneralAntillesHowdy, Jaffa.18:02
johnxhaha! got sapwood running on my zaurus finally! on to phase 2!18:02
timelyxi can't tell if "Beta release" is talking about  2.2005.45-1.. 4.2007.26-818:02
Khertansummatusmentis > yes ... since 12h18:02
summatusmentisoh wow, congrats :)18:03
GeneralAntillestimelyx, about to grab the wikitable class from wikipedia.18:03
timelyxhey Jaffa, got time to read 139/ and 140/18:03
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timelyxGeneralAntilles: also, i have no idea what those colors mean :)18:03
* Khertan after some search has just discover that gmail have a contact list ... and so that an mContact application that sync with gmail should be a great idea ...18:03
Jaffatimelyx: probably not, TBH on a very time-limited wifi connection at the campsite's bar18:04
Khertanthx RST38h18:04
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Khertansinon y a rien pour les taches ?18:04
timelyxJaffa: no graphics, i'll take feadback via mailto:timeless@gmail :)18:05
timelyxKhertan: heh, i guess contacts in gmail aren't really that discoverable18:05
timelyxbut they just work..18:05
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* GeneralAntilles is wondering whether he should just rob wikipedia's Common.css outright.18:06
sp3000GeneralAntilles: how about putting OSyyyy into a colspan="5" and killing its column18:06
Khertantimelyx > yes and with a good little maemo app that sync with it ... it could be a great things18:06
timelyxGeneralAntilles: the n800 codename doesn't appear to be in the thing you referenced18:06
sp3000(I guess that has its drawbacks too, but, meh)18:06
n800mwhat's the decision on that council thingy?18:06
n800myes or no?18:07
Khertanah... and a sync with picassa ...18:07
Khertancould be a good idea too18:07
GeneralAntillesn800m, chill, man, it's not an instantaneous thing. ;)18:07
Khertanone question ... do u prefer one and same application for todo/calendar/tasks ... or three independant apps ?18:07
GeneralAntillesThe plan will be worked out over the next 30 days.18:07
n800mi'm chill and curious infact18:07
n800mdrinking a red bull to counter chill18:08
RST38hKhertan: found them?18:08
GeneralAntillesn800m, the brainstorm was basically to set down a plan18:08
sp3000(since it clashes a bit with the column heads)18:08
GeneralAntillesso we're setting down a plan.18:08
KhertanRST38h > yes, thx18:08
Khertanjust need to found how to sync it now :)18:08
Jaffatimelyx: ah. interesting18:09
Khertanhum ... before ... finishing mCalendar :)18:09
JaffaGeneralAntilles: glad to hear things are progressing. Home in 8 days and willing to get stuck in :)18:09
* GeneralAntilles is swamped. :P18:09
n800myou just lost my vote, sir!18:10
GeneralAntillesWho is editing from
Italodanceummm All.The.Boys.Love.Mandy.Lane.Xvid.DVDRip.MFC  is it good?18:11
timelyxGeneralAntilles: so um...18:11
Navitimelyx, Uh... what exactly was my question18:11
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timelyxNavi: i need to figure out context :)18:11
timelyxGeneralAntilles: could you possibly change the q2 to match my suggestion?18:12
timelyxi think it's more likely to be accurate than q218:12
GeneralAntillesSorry, may have missed it.18:12
timelyxno, the one from 140 :)18:12
JaffaGeneralAntilles: plan so far is looking good. I note with interest the election of the chairman. Makes sense as one of the electees may not want it the extra admin it'd entail18:12
timelyxafter the wimax device ships :)18:12
GeneralAntillesOK, added that to the text18:13
NaviI'm just confused. I haven't asked you a question in a while18:13
GeneralAntillesadding it to the table18:13
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timelyxNavi: oh, that was re #maemo-meeting and you weren't asking, you were telling someone something i think18:14
NaviDamn, that was a while ago18:14
NaviOh yeah18:15
timelyxor if there was a question it was something like why haven't there been more public-ish browser releases18:15
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timelyxwell, my mac hasn't rebooted since then :)18:15
NaviI think it was along the lines if browser updates were going to be provided via SSU18:15
timelyxand snak hasn't crashed (unlike safari which crashes daily and camino/firefox which hang occasionally)18:15
Naviand I responded that it was up to the devs and management18:15
GeneralAntillesew snak18:15
timelyxyeah something like that :)18:15
timelyxGeneralAntilles: it works, i paid for it, i like kinch18:16
timelyxactually, dshadow used to be my neighbor, and i'm friends w/ a number of other mac irc client authors...18:16
NaviI still can't imagine playing for a browser18:16
Naviyea :P18:16
timelyxi can't remember if i ever bought icab18:17
timelyxi think  i regretted not buying omniweb18:17
timelyxi'm fairly certain i bought netscape at least once18:17
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timelyxas for opera, how many phones do you have?18:17
NaviI don't use opera on them18:18
timelyxbecause you've almost certainly paid for it :)18:18
Navis60v3 phones18:18
timelyxand if you own a 770 or n800 you've probably paid for it too18:18
NaviDiablo came on it, and it was second hand18:18
GeneralAntillesNot if you've bought it used, though.18:18
* timelyx ponders18:19
GeneralAntillesI think Navi escaped the noose on this one.18:19
timelyxno... i can't remember what it's called, but you paid18:19
GeneralAntillesEven if you have already, we're going to make you pay now!18:19
* GeneralAntilles gets out the board-with-nail.18:19
timelyxbuying used is just paying for opera at a depreciated price18:19
JaffaRight, 30 mins nearly up. Cya no later than 8*24 hours :)18:20
GeneralAntilleslater, Jaffa.18:20
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* qwerty12 wants to try out the OS2007 Opera by on OS2008 (done by Bundyo), I know it's old but I'm having so much probs with browserd, I must18:21
GeneralAntillesAnybody looking to edit the release history table should do so here:
Navitimelyx, well, I bought the N800 used months after OS2008 was released18:22
summatusmentisqwerty12: what problems?18:22
qwerty12the crash rate.18:22
summatusmentisI haven't run into anything18:22
summatusmentis(generally running into things hurts)18:23
qwerty12Load up a heavy site. I'm running nitro btw, I don't know if the standard something crashed dialog says the process name.18:23
Navitimelyx, If you count buying my N800 used as indirectly paying for Opera, than my donations to MozFound are too18:23
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summatusmentiswait, browserd, is that diablo?18:24
timelyxNavi: if you've sent money to MoFo, then yes18:24
qwerty12summatusmentis, It's in diablo yes18:24
Navitimelyx, :P18:24
summatusmentisoh, that's why I haven't run into it18:24
timelyxsp3000: can you find their crashes? :)18:24
GeneralAntillesguenther, ping.18:25
timelyxGeneralAntilles: if i want to link to it, how should i link to it?18:25
timelyxanyway, yes, that fixed my concern18:25
summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: much prettier now :)18:26
sp3000timelyx: bugzilla probably wants
guentherGeneralAntilles: pong18:29
GeneralAntillesIs it possible to get a "bug last updated by" column for bugzilla?18:29
sp3000timelyx: I probably can't find them :)18:29
guentherin the search result list?18:31
GeneralAntillesFor bug lists.18:31
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guenthertalking bout the user who updated it, right?18:32
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GeneralAntillesYeah, it should show the last person to do something to the bug. Change a field, comment, whatever.18:32
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guentherhmm, interesting idea18:32
guentherguess i should think about that18:33
guentherGeneralAntilles: convince me, why do you want it? :)18:33
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timelyxGeneralAntilles: all we have is 'changed'18:34
timelyxwhich tells you when it was changed18:34
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timelyxbut there are lots of classes of change18:34
timelyxwhich do you want:18:34
cyberholicHi everyone!18:34
GeneralAntillesguenther, I want to read bugzilla like a forum. ;)18:34
timelyxGeneralAntilles: bugzilla is available via rss18:34
timelyxyou can subscribe :)18:34
sp3000timelyx: something should probably write a history log or something of submitted things18:34
GeneralAntillesand doesn't want to manage it through Mail.18:35
qwerty12Hello cyberholic, haven't seen you for a long while :)18:35
timelyxGeneralAntilles: gah18:35
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timelyxsp3000: "submitted"?18:35
GeneralAntillesMail sucks a lot less in Leopard.18:35
timelyxmail in 10.3.9 is useless :)18:35
cyberholichi qwerty: yeah, i am developing the website for a poker-project that goes online next week. had a lot to do for that and no time for :(18:35
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qwerty12ah, hope the poker-project goes well :)18:36
cyberholicdoes anyone of you can tell me how video-chat works from n800 to desktop pc? I checked the internet tablet talk site, but i realy do not get it. video-chat does not start :(18:36
GeneralAntillesand as far the type of change, any change at all.18:36
timelyxGeneralAntilles: anyway, figure out which of those things you want and make a concerted argument18:36
cyberholicqwerty: you like poker?18:36
qwerty12cyberholic, not for me :)18:36
timelyxGeneralAntilles: however, i'm pretty sure you'll find that a number of them are useless18:36
GeneralAntillesi.e. the person at the bottom of the activity history list.18:36
timelyxyou don't really want to know when someone votes for a bug18:36
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timelyxand you probably don't care if a person cc's themself to a bug18:37
guentherGeneralAntilles: Ugh -- I so wish you would not have mentioned the F word.18:37
timelyxGeneralAntilles: activity doesn't include commenting :)18:37
cyberholicanyone of you ever used google talk for video chat?18:37
GeneralAntillesDoes it not?18:37
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qwerty12cyberholic, afair, google talk is tablet to tablet18:37
timelyxmakes life so much more interesting, doesn't it? :)18:37
GeneralAntillesOK, whatever. This is more of a can of worms than I was really interested in opening.18:37
qwerty12I think aMSN is tablet to pc18:37
* GeneralAntilles moves on.18:38
timelyxGeneralAntilles: that's the hazard... i've already been through these cans a dozen times :)18:38
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cyberholicqwerty: oh, aMSN ? never heard about that.18:38
timelyxGeneralAntilles: btw, why is the m in orange?18:38
guentherGeneralAntilles: I added it to my list of things to ponder and think about.18:38
GeneralAntillesWhich m?18:38
timelyxin wiki.maemo.org18:38
GeneralAntillesThat's a dneary question.18:39
cyberholicok. linux. the point is that i want to use it from n800 --> win xp18:39
* GeneralAntilles didn't make that image.18:39
guentherJust hold your breath a few more days for some (usability) changes to bugzilla. :)18:39
dnearytimelyx: Which orange?18:39
dnearyThere's no m in orange18:39
NaviWoo, orange18:39
NaviUnless you spell it oramge18:39
timelyxit's above the red wiki :)18:39
Navior orangem18:39
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Navior mandarin orange18:40
cyberholicthe point is that i got gizmo5 on XP but the video will not start :(18:40
timelyxmaybe it's gradiantorange?18:40
sp3000 mean?18:40
timelyxconsistent, isn't it?18:41
timelyxdneary: of course, i'm sure the art all needs a rewrite in july :)18:41
sp3000could just randomize it on load18:41
GeneralAntillessp3000, I like green.18:41
dnearytimelyx: Link?18:41
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dnearyThe m is orange because that's its brand18:42
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timelyxdneary: you should talk to quim18:43
dnearytimelyx: Sorry - can we start from the beginning?18:46
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timelyxnope :)18:52
timelyxthe beginning is that your logo is wrong per GeneralAntilles18:52
timelyxthe end is quim18:52
timelyxoh, the middle is probably the image urls from sp300018:52
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macoutedoes your nano/pico crash to segfault when replacing text?19:12
macoutemine does :)19:12
qwerty12When I tried it, it would segfault doing anything. That's why I removed it and learnt a very tiny bit of vi. And then went and apt-get install leafpad.19:13
macouteoki. so its basically a piece of crap? :)19:14
qwerty12Well, on the tablets it is :/19:14
timelyxthe app itself is ok, the port is apparently undesirable :)19:14
qwerty12(like irssi on the tablets :/)19:14
qwerty12(that can segfault like crazy sometimes too)19:15
macoutethe app itself is the best :)19:15
timelyx<Mossop> "Lead shot is dangerous for ducks, especially if it hits them". And what they suggest is better??19:16
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dnearytimelyx: Indeed - I thought that was the point.19:26
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dnearyI see for the maemo logo now19:27
dnearyIndeed, 'tis weird19:27
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timelyxdneary: but really, you should talk to quim before doing much work on it19:27
dnearytimelyx: Quim who?19:28
dneary(I'm joking! I'm joking!)19:29
timelyxi don't have a sense of humor.19:29
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darkblue_Bhello - I have an N800 out of the box.. and I just downloaded an RX- .bin file onto my Ubuntu box.. the lastest OS I thnik19:39
darkblue_Bbut.. what do I do with the .bin?  thanks19:40
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darkblue_BI tried chmod 755 and to run it from a shell, but that did not work19:40
qwerty12use flasher-3.0 to actually flash it onto a device19:40
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dnearydarkblue_B: Or better,
darkblue_Bthe flasher 3.0 for 64bit AMD Linux came down with a comma at the end of the name19:44
darkblue_BI just chmod 755 on it and it runs as a tool19:44
darkblue_Blooking at the options19:44
johnxdon't worry, the extra comma is free19:44
johnxthe options you need are at both links :)19:44
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timelyxjohnx, GeneralAntilles: i think i'm about done19:50
johnxwith what precisely?19:50
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darkblue_Bjohnx: thx.. that seems to have worked19:53
johnxtimelyx, ah, ok19:54
johnxdarkblue_B, good to hear :)19:54
darkblue_Bits sitting there with a NOKIA screen19:54
darkblue_BI just want the Maemo Mapper app to be installed19:55
darkblue_Bwith a new OS19:55
darkblue_Bsshfs -h looks detailed..19:56
johnxmost of it is unnecessary except in some cases19:56
johnxusually: sshfs user@host:/path/to/files /my/local/mountpoint19:57
darkblue_Bso, given my modest goals, how best to proceed?19:57
darkblue_Bam I a user on the N800?19:57
johnxgo to and click the "install it now" link for maemo mapper19:57
darkblue_Bok, thx.. trying19:57
johnxI assume the new OS installed and booted?19:58
darkblue_Bwell, as I say.. its at the blank NOKIA screen and holding19:58
darkblue_Bimmediately following the flash19:59
johnxbut it seemed to flash everything?19:59
darkblue_Bwhich appears via the terminal, to have succeeed19:59
johnxdid you remember the -R option?19:59
johnxfor "reboot"19:59
ccookedarkblue_B: if it goes on for too long, try taking out the power, then battery. Put it back together, plug in the power and hold down the on button until the Nokia screen comes up.20:00
ccooke(also if it gets into a reboot loop)20:00
darkblue_Bcheck me.. looks like -R to me20:00
johnxtry pulling the usb cable20:01
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darkblue_Bblue line progress20:02
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johnxI didn't want to tell you that earlier in case it hadn't really finished flashing20:02
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darkblue_Bok, clearly booted in the new setup20:04
darkblue_Bback to the USB cable for the mapper I assume20:04
johnxyou have wifi, right?20:04
johnxyou download on the device :)20:04
darkblue_Bgo to the page - of course20:04
johnxit's a real linux machine20:04
darkblue_Bsorry - new20:04
johnxno problem20:04
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darkblue_Byou said I am a user on ths N800?20:06
darkblue_Buser name?20:06
johnxyeah, creativity abounds :)20:06
KotCzarny better than 'guest' i guess20:07
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huats_does anybody uses scratchbox 2 ?20:08
huats_I have little pb with it...20:08
huats_and I would be interested with some advices :)20:08
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darkblue_Bwhen t says I cant install because Appliction packages are missing: rx-34-kernal-modules-extra portmap20:22
darkblue_Bwhat is the general idea here20:22
johnxfor better or worse, there isn't really a central repository20:23
johnxwell there is20:23
johnxbut not everyone uses it20:23
johnxso there's an index: look at
darkblue_BI dont know your package manager, or repostories.. I just klunk around once in a while on Ubuntu.. so I am not that expert at ths20:23
johnxsearch for the package you're missing20:23
darkblue_Boh - ok..20:24
johnxwhich app are you trying to install, by the way?20:24
darkblue_Bit was just the first thing that came up .. just to try it20:24
darkblue_BFileMounter Wizard or something.. listed in Apps20:25
darkblue_BI would like a way to move files back and forth20:25
darkblue_Bso it sounded like something to try20:25
johnxyou use gnome on ubuntu?20:25
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darkblue_Ba Mac mostly20:25
darkblue_Blinux VNC20:25
johnxeither way is good :)20:25
johnxI would install openssh on your tablet and then browse to its IP address on your mac or gnome desktop20:26
darkblue_Bscp or something you mean?20:26
johnxright, exactly20:26
johnxsftp/scp over wireless isn't fast but it's nice and simple20:26
johnxor just plug it in via usb for big file transfers and write directly to the sd cards20:27
darkblue_Bfirst *hour* as a user here.. so dont mind the questions  ;-)20:27
darkblue_Bright.. boot with the home key down to become a USB device?20:27
johnxthat's only for flashing20:27
johnxwhen it's on just plug it in :)20:27
darkblue_Boh - ok20:27
johnxit should just automatically mount in gnome or mac20:28
darkblue_Bpackage manager is apt-get from the terminal?20:29
johnxor there is a graphical app manager20:29
johnxin settings -> application manager20:29
johnxit's just a front end to apt20:30
darkblue_Bthats a good thing20:30
johnxagreed :)20:30
darkblue_Bset new root password?20:32
darkblue_Bfor user?20:32
johnxfor root20:32
darkblue_Bok, root and user20:32
darkblue_BI am settng the root password now20:32
johnxyou can set the user password later if you want20:32
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* timelyx tries to remember how to validate an rss feed20:35
darkblue_Bits XML20:35
darkblue_Bso thats a start20:36
darkblue_Bthere are a few flavors of RSS20:36
darkblue_Bso they are diffferent20:36
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darkblue_Bssh user@
johnxyou didn't set one yet :)20:40
johnxssh root@192... first20:41
johnxlogin, type: passwd user20:41
darkblue_Bgot it.. thx20:42
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darkblue_Bso now I can get ssh attacks anywhere I go :-/20:42
darkblue_Bwell, I have a strong password20:42
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darkblue_BI suppose it wont join wireless networks unless I ask it to20:43
darkblue_Bthis terminal window.. no UP arrow.. darn20:43
darkblue_Bwould save some typing20:43
KotCzarnyuse dpad20:43
KotCzarnyon the top left20:44
darkblue_Bthis is osso_xterm I think20:44
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KotCzarnywell, if you have n810 it's on the bottom left20:44
KotCzarnythen top left20:44
darkblue_Btop left is the earth.. with a list of popular bookmarks20:46
darkblue_BI dont see dpad yet20:46
soysamuraiIs it just me or does the SDK (Chinook) not have apt-build? (Maybe I'm missing something?)20:47
KotCzarnyit's you20:47
soysamuraithat's nice to know :)20:48
KotCzarnysorry, just joking :)20:48
KotCzarnyi have never needed to use apt-build :)20:48
johnxdarkblue_B, the physical direction pad20:48
KotCzarnyfakeroot dpkg-buildpkg is what i always used20:49
soysamuraii thought i looked for buildpkg but maybe i just missed it20:49
KotCzarnymay be dpkg-packagebuild20:49
KotCzarnyor some other variation20:49
johnxdpkg-buildpackage IIRC20:49
KotCzarnyi wasn't sure20:50
johnxin my mind it goes dpkg-bui<tab>20:50
KotCzarnybetter dpkg-[tab]20:50
johnxKotCzarny, dpkg-deb dpkg-source, etc, etc20:50
darkblue_Bis there any possibility of external video on the N800?20:51
johnxactually, 20+ things start with dpkg- on my debian box20:51
johnxdarkblue_B, only over the network, such as with vnc or remote X20:51
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darkblue_Bheading there now20:52
darkblue_Boh wait20:54
darkblue_Bso.. this is its own display device and processor20:55
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darkblue_Bso.. packages really are for this in many cases20:55
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darkblue_Bno sign of vnc in the default list of app in the app mgr20:55
darkblue_Bso.. how do I go about hunting for a vnc?20:55
johnxin general, your first stop should be and your second stop
darkblue_Bthx looking20:56
johnxalso google, "maemo vnc"20:56
johnxmaemo is the name of the development environment20:56
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darkblue_Bneeds hildon-libs0, libdbus20:58 for that kind of thing?20:58
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johnxthat might be a sign that it's for the wrong version of the OS21:00
johnxnow that you've updated you need packages for "OS2008" or "chinook"21:00
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darkblue_Bno vnc found21:04
KotCzarnyuse google?21:05
johnxit looks like there's a package here:
johnxwhen it says "switch your package manager to red pill mode" instead, just use dpkg -i foo.deb from the x terminal21:05
darkblue_Bgoogle for chninook vnc ?21:06
darkblue_Bhavent gotten that far21:06
johnxor os2008 vnc or maemo vnc21:06
johnxyou would have asked in a couple minutes, after you read that page :)21:06
darkblue_Bred pill - weird.. lots of S Asian fonts gere, I note21:06
KotCzarnyfor 'maemo vnc'21:07
KotCzarnymagic word is 'maemo' in google searches21:07
johnxKotCzarny, even I had trouble finding one for OS200821:07
johnxI figured I'd give him a hand21:08
KotCzarnyi didn't21:08
KotCzarnyi believe i found it on maemo.org21:08
darkblue_BKotCzarny: ?21:08
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johnxKotCzarny, *server*21:08
darkblue_Band thats where I was a good 10 mintues ago when I sad it need libs21:09
KotCzarnydidn't read so far in the backlog21:09
darkblue_Bnot for 200821:09
johnxand around we go21:09
darkblue_Bok.. now to that link johnx21:09
KotCzarnythough search for: maemo vnc server21:10
KotCzarnybrought it as a 2nd hit21:10
KotCzarnyso my point is still valid :)21:10
KotCzarnymagic word 'maemo'21:10
darkblue_Bmaemo gives stuff that doesnt work on os200821:11
darkblue_Bso I apprecate pointers, but, there is more to it, too21:11
* darkblue_B just had it happen21:11
KotCzarnythat one would work too21:13
KotCzarnyi guess21:13
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KotCzarny(select armel package)21:13
johnxI would try packages specifically for the tablet *before* resorted to trying random stuff from debian...21:13
KotCzarnybut he asked for any pointers21:14
darkblue_Bjohnx: getting to the red pill part21:14
KotCzarnyand i hardly see anything in vncserver to be maemo specific21:14
KotCzarnymaybe compiling with optimizations, but that's it21:15
johnxKotCzarny, I'm going to file that under "famous last words."21:15
RST38h"A spokesman for China's foreign ministry says that  China being the 'developing nation' that it is  he doubts that his country has the sophistication to hack foreign systems."21:16
RST38h[i.e. he basically confirmed it, in the polite Chinese kinda way]21:16
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KotCzarnyhe should also add that as a developing country they don't even speak foreign languages21:19
* darkblue_B down on China21:21
darkblue_Bjohnx: hey, this is great!21:21
darkblue_Bthanks so much!21:21
darkblue_Bssh and VNC and maemo mapper!21:21
johnxgood to hear21:21
darkblue_Bthx very much.. enough for now21:21
darkblue_Bos2008 ?21:21
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johnx"Internet Tablet Operating System 2008 Edition" or something similar21:22
KotCzarnyalso known as chinook/diablo21:22
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n800mwhat a confusing name.21:37
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macoute"what a confusing name" says "n800" on a maemo channel :)22:29
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macoutediablo-users around?22:31
johnxwhat's the question?22:32
macoutethe question is: are you a diablo-user? :)22:32
macoutei'll msg you?22:32
johnxfair enough22:32
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febb<----- want to be a Diablo user...haven't dloaded it yet.. .....22:37
johnxit's really not worth it22:38
* KotCzarny is happy to snatch ftd though22:38
febb        what are the "supposed" benefits of diablo ?   any major stuff?  (besides bug fixing)....22:38
KotCzarnywimax support22:38
johnxbrowser is worse, virtual keyboard is better, app manager is better22:39
KotCzarnybrowser is worse?22:40
timelyxjohnx: does it crash at specific pages?22:40
johnxthe memory usage just gets out of control22:40
johnxbut I can't reproduce it22:40
febbWimax support....that is only for the N810 Wimax edition...isn't it ? or is it for any/all N810 ?22:40
johnxfebb, just for the n810 wimax edition, correct22:41
febbah!....  I was getting somewhat happy ! ;)22:41
febbI don't have Wimax here anyway....   ......22:41
Atariimos people dont22:41
johnxyeah, you're in good company22:41
* KotCzarny is nyc area22:42
Atariii dont even know if/when its coming to the UK22:42
KotCzarnybut i won't be getting it if it's over 10$/month22:42
RST38hThere are at least 3 WiMax providers here22:42
febbIt will be deployed over here .there are tests already, but it is not realiable or with great coverage....22:42
febbMexico city is "here", btw.22:42
RST38hDunno if they support mobile WiMax though22:42
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johnxyeah, there's already coverage around Seattle from clearwire, but I have no idea what standard they're currently on22:43
AtariiRST38h where's here for you?22:43
KotCzarnymiddle east :>22:44
febbAnybody has been able to use the video conference with gizmo on OS2008 ?22:44
RST38hAtarii: Moscow22:44
febbgizmoproject, that is.22:45
macoutethanks for johnx for help, but my prob doesnt really solved. let me be more spesific, is there anyone who has gotten diablo to work by "guessing" the correct password-username combination?22:45
macouteor let me ask other way: does anyone know what is the user agent of apt-get in n8x0?22:45
KotCzarnysniff it22:45
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RST38hget high by sniffing n8x0 apt-get!22:46
KotCzarnysnuff enuff22:46
macoutei dont have an idea how to sniff the UA of apt-get?22:46
KotCzarnyever used tcpdump ?22:46
timelyxmacoute: just check an http log :)22:46
macoutetimelyx: im just trying it :)22:47
RST38hWhich bring a question whether there is Ethereal/WireShark for N810?22:47
macouteit seemed such an stupid idea at first22:47
timelyx"Debian APT-HTTP/22:47
febbuh!..just remembered: I got to install a VNC server and client on my N810... any recommended package for this? (and what repo?)22:47
timelyxat least that's what my logs say :)22:47
timelyxthe line feed is from my terminal :)22:47
macoutetimelyx: thats true22:48
KotCzarnyi think it says rx34 or something too22:48
macouteno it doesnt22:48 - - [12/Jun/2008:22:48:06 +0300] "GET /dists/foo/bar/binary-amd64/Packages.gz HTTP/1.1" 404 419 "-" "Debian APT-HTTP/1.3"22:48
timelyxmacoute: cheater. you don't have a real service22:48
timelyxip-address-scrubbed - - [12/Jun/2008:12:25:32 -0700] "GET /extras-devel/dists/chinook/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz HTTP/1.1" 304 28322:49
timelyx "-" "Debian APT-HTTP/1.3"22:49
macoutetimelyx: a real deb repo? :)22:49
timelyxyeah :)22:49
* timelyx runs one22:49
macoutei should run one too22:49
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timelyxor rather, ran one and it currently just gives out old info to break people :)22:49
macoutea good repo is an outdated one :)22:49
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macoutea _best_22:49
timelyxa good product is a dead product? :)22:49
macoutethe, to be exact22:49
macouteyeah :)22:50
* timelyx goes back to trying to figure out how to cheat @rss22:50
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macoutedamn, now i must admit that im stuck with my spywork and i do have the wrong pass/user-combination...22:51
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macouteif some1 wants to kick me in the right direction, id be more than happy22:55
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macoutei can be the one asking questions and you dont need to answer nothing but yes/no :)22:55
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PhosphoricXAnyone successfully setup maemo development under windows without an emulator?23:00
RST38hHe is asking to kick him. In the right direction.23:03
RST38hPhosphoric: Not possible, neither of two SDKs comes in Windows version23:03
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||cwPhosphoricX: like under cygwin or something?  it's really not reasonable to do anyway since maemo is made for arm you pretty much need an emulator23:04
macouteyou dont need to have an emulator but a virtual machine :)23:05
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dragornPhosphoricX: You can, in theory, build your own toolchain in cygwin, however you won't be able to leverage scratchbox since it requires all sorts of clever hacks to launch qemu on the right binaries.  There are vmware images, grab one of them and vmware player.23:07
dragorndepending what you're trying to do it's definitely possible to make an intel-hosted arm-targeted toolchain, but matching all the libs will probably make you go crazy.23:08
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lcukPhosphoricX, i develop in windows without an emulator. i write code using komodo edit and compile using gcc directly on my 810 :)  for me it works a treat because i compile small modules, although a full rebuild of my project only takes about 50 seconds23:59
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lcuk(when  im not near a desktop i use pygtkeditor directly on the device and code on the go :) )23:59

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