IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2008-06-06

qgilhi there00:00
lardmanhi qgil00:00
qgilcan someone put this URL in the #maemo topic please?00:00
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qgilalso, at least from my point of view has all the pre-agreed tasks in place00:01
qgilplease hurry if you want to propose new tasks for the 100 days00:01
hrwhi qgil00:01
GeneralAntillesHey, qgil.00:02
qgilthere are some proposals still under discussion: help pushing them if you think they are urgent00:02
*** hrw changes topic to "Development platform for Nokia Internet Tablets | | | | | | Quim Gil's talk at LinuxTag |"00:02
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qgilit would be great if someone could do a similar process of creating new pages for the objectives proposed at
qgilalthough the time pressure for the 2010 agenda is not so big00:03
hrwhmm.. OSiM..00:03
qgillardman, can it be that you haven't sent your expenses? please do it  :)00:03
lcukhave you got mine quim?00:04
lardmanqgil: Good point, sorry been busy since I got back to work00:04
qgillcuk: yes, but just saw the email in my mobile - did you send a signed form - scanned or pictured?00:04
qgilhrw: hi, OSIM, yes00:05
AStormhmmm, I'm not sure if it's possible, but a repository with all the Nokia not yet opened stuff would be great00:05
lcuktook a photo of my signed bill and sent it along with the mail, if you require originals at any time i have a duplicate00:05
AStormunless it's already done00:05
qgilAStorm: please check the wiki since something along these lines is already proposed00:05
AStormso that one doesn't have to reflash if he removes a media-player and wants it back for instance00:05
qgillcuk: not only the bill, also the form signed by you00:06
lcukahhhh no, i will do that and send to you00:06
* lcuk goes and prints it00:06
qgilsignatures are important to accountants  :)00:06
beford:/ did not work AStorm00:06
befordshould I try to reflash it?00:06
lcukyes of course00:06
qgilalright, late in Helsinki (but still some daylight, amazing)00:07
AStormbeford: hmm, you fixed the partitioning of internal flash?00:07
qgiltwo things00:07
qgil1. We *really* want to see you there. You won't regret.00:07
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befordAStorm, yea, I just did that. The original problem is that the devices reboots at start up a couple of times, and then starts normaly00:07
RST38hwhat is the mime type for .install files?00:07
qgil2. Any berliner/german around? We are looking for a venue (the best candidate wasn't appropriate after all)00:07
hrwqgil: I like OSiM location. Berlin is quite close for me00:08
AStormbeford: hmm, check if battery is loose - seen that then ;>00:08
qgilwell, OSiM location is a 5 star hotel, which is a bit overdone for a maemo summit00:08
hrwqgil: hotel is other thing ;)00:09
qgilwe have some budget, but we rather spending sponsoring people and food instead of paying for luxury00:09
lardmanOSiM sounds good to me, going to be a busy week that one00:09
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* pupnik reviews 2010 and 100days00:09
AStormhmm, september 19th... sounds nice00:09
lardmanX-Fade: You still here? I've got some "proper" news for you now :)00:09
AStormwell, 100days doesn't have what I was thinking about yet00:10
qgilthe time is good for us, Berlin is well placed in the map and a business-centric conference can't harm maemo contributors nowadays  ;)00:10
AStormhmm, maybe it's on Identifying_transparency00:10
qgilAStorm: because what you ask for is impossible in 100Days, basically  ;)00:10
qgillook the Transparency link and the 2010 agenda00:11
AStormqgil: well, it's simple00:11
* qgil re-reads above00:11
AStormjust make a binary repository with the .debs that are in the standard flash image00:11
pupnikThe journalism experience shows: "In short: It should be friendly, understandable, deliberately incomplete, offer only the very best the community can give at any time." ;)00:11
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AStormsome that are there are nowhere to fetch from00:12
lcukhmmm incomplete00:12
pupnikyes the poitn being to invite ongoing participation00:12
qgilah, I see, this is indeed something that nobody have proposed before in the brainstorm as far as I remember00:13
hrwAStorm: for Nokia image which you flash is one package00:13
qgilpropose, explain the reasons why and I will look at it - need to ask some people00:13
GeneralAntillesIt'll be something of a non-issue with SSU, though, wont it?00:13
AStormhrw: heh, not exactly - it's built from subpackages, as you can see00:13
GeneralAntillesI guess the SSU repo will only contain UPDATED stuff, but eventually that SHOULD be everything.00:13
AStormyes, that would be it00:14
AStormhmm, how to phrase it nicely enough for the wiki :-)00:14
qgilI leave this to you  :)00:14
qgiltime for me to zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz - good night!00:14
GeneralAntilles'night, qgil.00:14
lcukgnite qgil00:15
AStormyes, time for so-called sleep00:15
AStormnight people00:15
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befordnight AStorm00:15
befordI'll try to reflash it00:15
RST38hAll right, I am now suporting .install files. Please test
hrwhmm.. I need to buy bigger stapler00:18
RST38hAll right, I am now supporting .install file generation. Please try
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pupnikxterm: no results :)00:18
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pupnikRST38h: does section and repository need to be selected?00:20
pupnikand why do i keep thinking you're french...00:20
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, what's the difference between the two icons? (intentionally stupid question)00:21
RST38hpupnik: no00:21
RST38hit will be optional when implemented00:21
pupnikwhat is a known working search term?00:21
RST38hGA: First one downloads .deb directly, second one downloads .install file00:21
RST38hpupnik: fmsx will do00:21
RST38hor canola00:21
RST38hor omweather00:21
beford xss ftw00:22
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I think the direct .deb download should be featured much less prominently.00:22
GeneralAntillesAs it's (by a larger margin) the less preferred method.00:22
GeneralAntillesYou don't really want newbies clicking it.00:22
GeneralAntillesIt should only be there for convenience sake for people who know what they're doing it.00:23
pupnikok fmsx without OS, section or repository worked.  Specifiying OS2007 produced 0 hits.00:23
GeneralAntillesRather, I wanted this URL, RST38h:
pupniklogically i suppose00:23
pupniknice resource RST38h00:23
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lardmanlcuk: Did Quim want hard-copies or scans?00:23
RST38hbeford:beford: is it a hack?00:23
GeneralAntillesOr this:
RST38hGA: Will put them in00:24
lcukscan or photo of it printed and signed00:24
RST38hGA: please give me one for download as well00:24
lardmancool, thanks00:24
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GeneralAntillesThat one I haven't got so handy, RST38h.00:24
RST38hGA: Oh you mean the arrow00:24
edistar_hi there, anyone here who has the OS 2007 HE running and ogg support up? I installed the mogg package but it doesn't seem to work00:24
lcuki had signed bill and sent that but didnt sign the expenses form00:24
GeneralAntillesAt least not maemo-themed.00:24
RST38hGA: I would use it but I need 2 icons of the same size and style at the moment00:24
RST38hUnless I have two, can't use it00:25
lardmanlcuk: Cool00:25
GeneralAntillesRST38h, I really would de-emphasize the direct .deb download00:25
GeneralAntillesAs it would both free up a column for a wider description field and alleviate newbie confusion.00:25
RST38hMaybe but for now I need both of them00:25
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GeneralAntillesand sticking with the maemo-icons is a high priority.00:26
befordRST38h, if you have something like a forum, weblog, etc hosted under the same domain, it may allow to some users steal data from other users00:27
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lcukwhat can i crop and edit video with?00:31
lcukive just done a quick few minutes with my program and i wanna cull the cruft00:32
JaffaGeneralAntilles: I've been adding usage information to my templates (see for example) wrapped in <noinclude>...</noinclude>00:32
GAN800Yeah, a documentation template for templates is also on my list.00:33
* hrw -> bed00:33
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RST38hbeford: I will fix it in a moment00:34
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GeneralAntillesI wish there were some sort of basic "wikipedia templates and styles" plugin you could add to a mediawiki install.00:34
* Jaffa wonders if it's bad etiquette to push his own Community Council idea to the pre-agreed bit of 100Days. qgil's semi-agreed (or caved in), and there's been a few voices of support *and* 11 favourites on the blog post. Still, seems a bit... pushy.00:35
JaffaGeneralAntilles: yeah, annoyed I couldn't get a nice styled table in Plan_metadata without doing it all by hand.00:35
GeneralAntillesWe need to push as much of the style stuff to a central style sheet as possible.00:36
JaffaAh, it was done already in Task:Community_Council, ta GeneralAntilles00:36
GeneralAntillesThank qgil00:36
JaffaAh, indeed.00:36
* Jaffa didn't scroll down far enough in the Recent changes.00:37
* Jaffa goes off to holiday happy now. Well, later.00:37
JaffaSpod first. Sleep later.00:37
GeneralAntillesHave fun, Jaffa.00:37
GeneralAntillesCatch yah on the flip side.00:37
JaffaOh tomorrow evening when I'm trying to escape my mother-in-law on the layover ;-)00:37
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* lcuk uses a hand crank on his internet00:47
GeneralAntillesThis make sense to anybody?
lcukyes, the header can then be used in c++00:47
GeneralAntillesWant to put a comment elaborating a bit since the submitter didn't bother?00:48
lcukanother account i dont have?00:50
lcukthis is what i believe he thinks is required:
GeneralAntilleslcuk, think of it as an opportunity. :P00:51
lcukno, ive joined too many places tonight/thisweek, the credit line on my password memory is getting low00:51
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lcuki need to give things time to bed in or i wont remember them00:52
* lcuk still waiting for youtube00:52
lcukits only 59mb00:52
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GeneralAntillesHow can you go to maemo conferences and not have a bugzilla account? . . .00:54
sp3000because the conf registration isn't in bugzilla :P00:55
hans-castorpyeo people00:56
sp3000GeneralAntilles: re 3226, the submitter is in channel00:56
GeneralAntillesdougt, mind elaborating on #3226?00:57
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rm_you_HA back00:57
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GeneralAntillesrm_you, you totally missed X-Fade.00:58
GeneralAntillesBy, like, miles upon miles upon miles.00:58
lcuk~lart the internet00:58
* infobot teaches the internet the basics, including how to RTM00:58
rm_youyeah was gone for like 4 days00:58
GeneralAntillesI can't find the URL for the Extras access request form, now. :P00:59
GeneralAntillesSo total fail. :P01:00
GeneralAntillesAnyway, should be in the vicinity of one of your highlights01:00
rm_youi dont think my logs go back much further than about yesterday01:01
rm_youif that01:01
lcukoh shitbags01:01
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GeneralAntillesrm_you, here it is:
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rm_youI tried to impliment that stuff timeless sent and realized that has nothing to do with my issue, since i'm still almost positive they're somehow getting those GTK slider widgets into a HildonMenu somehow, which is how they get it to look and function that way01:09
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GeneralAntillesWhat's the issue when you try to do the same?01:10
rm_youalso, i figured i should get the custom list icon working, and figured out that it is seemingly impossible to get custom icons to work01:10
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rm_youi even swapped out the image files for every single applet in the list and it didnt change the image01:10
rm_youfor any of them01:10
rm_youit's like they don't even use the images on the filesystem01:11
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lcukis that a cache issue01:11
rm_youi think the statusbar list images are contained in the flash somewhere01:11
rm_youi rebooted like 4 times...01:11
lcukwhich icons do you mean?01:11
lcuklike the power one01:11
rm_youcontrol panel -> panels -> second tab01:11
rm_youthe icons that show up next to their names in the list there01:12
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rm_youthe .desktop files show the image name to be used01:12
rm_youwhich are located in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/26x26/hildon/01:12
rm_youfor example, the bluetooth statusbar supposedly uses "/usr/share/icons/hicolor/26x26/hildon/qgn_list_cp_bluetooth.png" in the list01:13
rm_youbut i can replace that image with any of the other ones or my own, and it never changes01:13
rm_youeven on reboot01:13
rm_youand if i change the image in the .desktop to point to the SAME png file, just renamed, it won't work01:13
rm_youit then just has a blank space and no image01:14
rm_youbut if you change the .desktop file to tell it to use a different statusbar applet's image, it changes immediately to that01:14
rm_youit just has to be one of the stock ones01:15
dougtGeneralAntilles: yeah, sorry.01:15
lcukexpand on your frustration on a post there rm, and then if it all gets resolved it can be clarified for the wiki01:15
GeneralAntillesNo worries, just want to make sure things that can be fixed get fixed and good bug information is the first step on that path. ;)01:15
GeneralAntilleswrong window01:16
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GeneralAntillesNow I've just got to find the tablet I was just sshing into to test out the new CSS. . . . :\01:17
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dougtGeneralAntilles: updated.01:26
GeneralAntillesLooks good, dougt.01:28
dougtyeah, the bug report; not the problem. :-)01:28
dougtnot sure if it is in the right component.01:29
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GeneralAntillesYeah, I'm not sure, either.01:29
GeneralAntillesBut I don't have a better answer. ;)01:29
dougtwhen in doubt, general!01:29
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GeneralAntillesOK, I set the milestone and version. If anybody wants to confirm and it ping me, I'll also confirm it. ;)01:30
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dougtis future a bad thing?01:32
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GeneralAntillesdougt, nah, that should be default.01:34
GeneralAntillesUntil somebody who can actually do something about it fixes it and tells us which version the fix will be in.01:35
dougtGeneralAntilles: i can fix it, i suppose.  I can send a diff of the file correct.01:35
* dougt corrected, even. :-)01:35
GeneralAntillesProviding a patch would be useful.01:35
dougtbut I am not sure where in the world it would be checked into.01:35
dougtbut it is a pretty trivial fix either way.01:36
GeneralAntillesJust add the patch as an attachment to the bug01:36
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rm_youGeneralAntilles: has anyone filed a bug about the icon thing that you're aware of?01:45
rm_youi guess i'm really asking anyone...01:45
GeneralAntillesNo, rm_you.01:45
GeneralAntillesI think there's a cache, though.01:45
GeneralAntillesI remember seeing something on itT01:45
rm_youread my post01:45
dnearyI did a bit of work this evening01:46
rm_youthis is really making me hate working on maemo stuff >_>01:47
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jldiazI've installed screen for maemo. This is a piece of software I find very useful, and I'm glad that it was "maemized"01:48
jldiazhowever, the "official" version has no support for 256 color terminals, which is a pity, because osso-xterm is a 256 color terminal01:48
GeneralAntillesAwesome, dneary.01:48
rm_youyes... <3 screen01:48
dnearyGeneralAntilles: Gives a clear TODO list for the migration, which we were missing.01:49
dnearyWhich was my fault :)01:49
jldiazSo I tried to compile my own screen, from the sources, in scratchbox01:49
jldiazbut was unable to01:49
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jldiazI'm thinking now about contact the person wich created the package screen_4.0.3-0.3osso2_armel.deb01:50
jldiazand asking him to enable the support for 256 colors (it is only a switch in the configure)01:50
GeneralAntillesrm_you, is there nothing on statusbar icons in the official documentation?01:50
jldiazaccording with apt-cache info, the maintainer is maemo integration <>01:51
jldiazis this a real person?01:51
rm_youi've looked and looked and looked01:51
rm_youthey just say "set the desktop file like this"01:51
GeneralAntillesTry the mailing list?01:53
GeneralAntillesProbably net you a better response than itT, anyway.01:53
lcukhow long does youtube processing normally take01:53
jldiazsilly of me01:54
jldiazI was trying to compile the standard screen release01:54
jldiazbut now I issued an "apt-get source screen" in the scratchbox01:55
jldiazand compiled that source code01:55
jldiazthat apparently is patched for osso01:55
jldiazand it compiles now without problem01:55
jldiazso I can fix myself the 256 color issue!01:55
GeneralAntillesrm_you, ?01:56
* lcuk trembles01:57
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MaximanderHow do I install build tools inside maemo dev env? sb2 apt-get install gengetopt doesn't work...01:58
rm_youoh god now all my icons are screwed up >_<01:59
rm_youooo advanced backlight icon :P01:59
* GeneralAntilles pokes rm_you with a stick.02:00
GeneralAntillesFeel better now?02:00
GeneralAntilleslcuk, you're such a hooker02:00
GeneralAntilleswhere's my binaries? :P02:00
lcuktheres an oldish one on my site02:01
GeneralAntillesWhere are my new binaries? :P02:01
GeneralAntillesI've seen the old one.02:01
lcukbut its way out of date atm, i need real time to work on this and other ideas ive got02:01
* lcuk could spend real time actually finalizing features and put energy towards packaging02:02
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lcukas it stands right now, everything is going smoothly enough that 10 years of waiting ideas are starting to come out02:02
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lcuki feel comfortable on this device and with the tools im building around me, and everything i finish leads to the bigger step i see re-opening back up02:04
GeneralAntillesI'd just get a book reader out the door first.02:04
lcukbook reader needs an interface for file selection.  that needs an object model to handle it02:05
lcuksketches are quite good ways to convey quick information so UI elements will be built out of those floating around02:06
rm_youok, one down02:06
lcuklike the menu system, i feel comfortable using it, its quick and simple, but doesnt work for files (I tried)02:06
rm_youok, now to figure out how to do theme iconsets02:08
lcuklaying out of the sketches is almost a file selector, i was testing the scaling and rendering speed and aspect correctness of drawing and rendering at different resolutions02:08
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rm_youanyone have any first thoughts on how I find out which theme is currently active? (in C)02:08
lcukgoto themes02:09
lcukit opens with the current one02:09
lcuk-my help02:09
rm_youcan I actually do it with a Gtk command or will it be hildon specific?02:09
rm_youlcuk: lol?02:09
GeneralAntillesrm_you, didn't we figure that out before?02:09
lcuki missed the (in c) bit, mine was interactive user02:09
rm_youno, because if i can figure THAT out, it's basically done02:09
rm_youyeah, :P02:09
GeneralAntillesrm_you, we had this discussion about LCARS.02:10
GeneralAntillesThere's a Gtk method for it.02:10
rm_youthats what this is for02:10
rm_youright, i don't know what it is :P02:10
rm_youso it IS gtk?02:10
GeneralAntillesSearch the logs, or something. :P02:10
GeneralAntillesI think so.02:10
rm_youhildon doesnt do its themes differently?02:10
rm_youlike, if i say "what theme are we using" via the GTK command, it'll actually tell me "LCARS"?\02:10
GeneralAntillesSomething else uses it.02:11
hans-castorpyeo. does anyone know how to disable matchbox?02:11
hans-castorpso I can boot to the console?02:12
rm_youGeneralAntilles: ah wow, its been a while... just went to add some code for gtk_icon_theme... it's already in there... with a whole "Comin soon!" comment block and a bunch of attempts >_<02:13
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rm_youdamn. i havent worked on this in a LONG time have i02:13
rm_youthat or i have horrible memory... which i THINK is true... i don't really remember02:14
GeneralAntillesIt's been months.02:14
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GeneralAntillesProper theming setup, proper Hildon menu, settings dialog and you're done.02:15
rm_youheh... *proper* theming setup...02:16
* rm_you was tempted to hardcore LCARs02:16
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GAN800Be nice to see some progress on the adv-connectivity applet.02:20
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lcukrm_you, do you listen for dbus events and change backlight and stuff according to it02:20
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rm_youlcuk: at the moment, no02:20
rm_youi should... :/02:21
lcukare you still writing to the /dev/brightness file or whatever it was02:21
lcukwhat method are you using now02:21
rm_youall using DSME for brightness02:21
lcukcan you get at cpu threshhold modes from in there?02:21
rm_youlcuk: don't know02:21
rm_youDSME is kind of an enigma02:21
GAN800Be cool if there were a good way of interfacing with the light sensor, too.02:22
lcukcos i would kinda like to change cpu performance anytime without having to load my program to do it for me02:22
rm_youno, doesnt look like it02:22
GAN800Put together an applet, then, lcuk.02:22
lcukthough it makes no difference, the cpu on performance and no wifi lasts all day02:22
lcukbut thats a whole nother step of training gan,02:23
GeneralAntillesHijacking adv-backlight will be easy.02:23
rm_youlcuk: ^^02:23
lcukfor a very small purpose, meanwhile ive got the functions to change the cpu threshhold, and rm is writing desktop applets, collaboration would be good ;)02:24
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rm_youI could help out with that i suppose02:24
lcukim serious, running this on performance makes entire desktop feel snappier02:24
rm_youyou want one with a CPU slider?02:24
lcukits just basically 3 options02:24
rm_youthat would be handy for me too02:25
rm_youconsidering I need to up the CPU to play music over a2dp02:25
GeneralAntillesWell, hopefully not for long.02:25
lcukpowersave (always slow), ondemand (slowish, meant to speed up as required),  performance (full speed)02:25
rm_youand right now i do it by changing the scaling file02:25
rm_youlcuk: doable... and could have a real menu :P02:25
rm_yousince you don't need crazy widgets02:25
rm_youthat wouldnt take too long if you give me the code for changing the cpu speed02:26
lcukyes, well thats all ive wrapped around, but the functions are clean and know when things need changing :)02:26
rm_youcouldn't you just make them into scripts and add them to osso-statusbar-cpu's menu>02:27
GeneralAntillesor Personal Menu02:27
rm_youso GeneralAntilles: do you think hardcoding the LCARs iconset would be ok?02:28
rm_youor do we want *proper* theming support02:28
GeneralAntillesNo. :P02:28
rm_youi can fo the first one in like... an hour02:28
rm_youthe other one, estimated date TBA :P02:28
johnxhey rm_you02:29
rm_yousup johnx02:29
GeneralAntillesPackage spam for one theme is lame.02:29
rm_youwell, I remain at a loss02:29
GeneralAntillesIs it documented in the gtk docs?02:29
rm_youthis iconset stuff isn't actually what i wanted02:29
rm_youi think the theme is a Hildon thing not a GTK thing02:29
rm_youiconsets would be like... "hicolor"02:29
rm_youbut EVERYTHING is in hicolor02:29
rm_youhildon themes are different02:29
GeneralAntillesHrm, is there any open applet whose icon changes with the theme?02:30
johnxwhy not look at how the LCARS theme .deb actually does this02:31
GeneralAntillesDoes what?02:31
GeneralAntillesInstalls icons? :P02:31
johnxI seem to recall someone saying they just replaced the icons anyways02:31
rm_youjohnx: yes, possible02:31
GeneralAntillesThe system stuff that doesn't change with the theme.02:31
rm_youGeneralAntilles: HA!02:31
GeneralAntillesBut the themable icons are handled by the applets.02:31
rm_youthanks johnx, i have an idea02:31
johnxin which case there isn't really theming support...02:32
GeneralAntillesThe statusbar applets handle the theme change on their own.02:32
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GeneralAntillesBut, for instance, the boot image isn't themable.02:32
rm_youGeneralAntilles: what if: we package iconsets their own debs, right? advanced-backlight-theme-lcars02:32
rm_youjust follow me here02:32
GeneralAntillesI'm following. . . .02:32
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rm_youwe have that installer move the old icons to like... ./old/02:33
rm_youand then just put in the new icons02:33
rm_younew idea02:33
rm_youthere are folders in the icons/adv-backlight/ folder02:33
* GeneralAntilles starts throwing scissors at rm_you to make it interesting.02:33
rm_youand then one for each iconset02:33
rm_youand then a symlink current/02:33
johnxsure...isn't the hard part detecting theme change?02:34
rm_youand then when i add the options pane, it has a dropdown for each folder of icons02:34
rm_youand it just changes the symlink02:34
rm_youno, the user selects it02:34
johnxfair enough02:34
rm_youit *works*02:34
rm_youmost people would accept it probably02:34
rm_youand it actually lets you do other things too02:34
GeneralAntillesThere's a perfectly good interface for doing the properly.02:34
* johnx agrees02:34
GeneralAntillesWe just need to find somebody who has used it.02:35
rm_youjohnx: agrees with me or him?02:35
* johnx agrees with rm_you 02:35
rm_youk, i'm doing it02:35
GeneralAntillesIt's so dirty.02:35
GeneralAntillessymlink is gross, anyway.02:35
rm_youit's so... useful02:35
GeneralAntillesWhy not just do the selection in the code?02:35
johnxGeneralAntilles, WTH do you want to do?02:35
GeneralAntillesInstead of the filesystem. . . .02:35
rm_youand it's decently clean considering the *alternative* i was discussing02:35
johnxGeneralAntilles, point02:36
rm_youpff, i guess i could02:36
johnxlcuk, watched it once. will watch again :)02:36
rm_youbut still, that system works for you, right?02:36
johnxrm_you, why not prefix icons with default_foo.png, lcars_foo.png02:36
GeneralAntillesjohnx, use the proper theme selector so there's no user-interaction involved in picking the correct icon set. ;)02:36
pupniknice vid lcuk02:36
rm_youjohnx: cluttered >_>02:36
GeneralAntillesAs a stop-gap, I guess.02:36
johnxGeneralAntilles, which is fine, unless you *want* a different icon set02:36
rm_youwhich was my point with "and lets you do other stuff too" :P02:37
* rm_you agrees with johnx02:37
lcukheh pupnik, i had to get *something* up :)02:37
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rm_youok... i'm going to... take a shower, and think it over02:37
pupnikyou just added text hilighting?02:37
rm_youwhen i get back i'll start coding02:37
lcuklol, no its been there all along taunting me - i wanna do it, but ive been refactoring something else02:38
GeneralAntillesThe way THAT should be done is that the default setting is to use the current theme's iconset, and that can be overridden in the prefs if the user wants to.02:38
lcukeverytime i scroll past it i think "of yer"02:38
lcukoh yer02:38
GeneralAntillesOK, whatever, implement it, we'll figure out the correct method later. :P02:38
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lcukand the bloody big PUPNIK optimise note keeps getting me02:38
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pupnikno worries mate02:39
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johnxlcuk, that is pretty damn slick :D02:40
rm_youlcuk: does that read text only or can it do pdf? :P02:42
pupniki took a .ps file to a print shop today and they didn't know what postscript was02:42
lcukwell - as you can see i can render arbitary text at any location and scroll around it, is there a nice pdf parser around which would give me a page model?02:42
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lcukholy poo pupnik02:42
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rm_youno idea :/02:43
rm_youack, right, shower02:43
rm_youalso: lcuk: BINARIES02:43
lcuklook hard enough if you are desperate, there is a preprepre release version around somewhere02:43
rm_yougive us your current binary :P meanie02:44
GeneralAntilleslcuk, this isn't the Windows world. :P02:44
GeneralAntillesWe don't handle not being able to get ahold of stuff very well.02:44
GeneralAntillesand nobody cares if things aren't 100% up to speed.02:44
rm_youpass over the binary before I cry about source :P02:44
GeneralAntillesThere's the other benefit02:44
GeneralAntillesWe'll shut up about sources for a while if you give us binaries.02:45
lcukwell you will have to hold on more, i cant have you lot all creating data and stuff and me having to manage it and have legacy before ive even started.  its all being rebuilt02:45
rm_youjust release with "note: this will break on updates"02:45
rm_youseriously... it's us.02:45
rm_youlike we'd care02:45
lcuki cant, i aim to keep everything im writing02:45
* rm_you dies02:45
johnxan irc log is writing!02:45
lcukbut i must be able to categorize it :)02:46
rm_youok... lets just say... you accidentally put a binary on a server somewhere02:46
johnxjust include this log in the .deb as an example text :D02:46
rm_youand you "accidentally" notice us a link to iut02:46
lcuk37mb so far john :) from the day i installed xchat to now02:46
rm_youand we "accidentally" download it and lose the link02:46
johnxlcuk, and the tablet has 128MB, so no problem, right ;)02:46
lcukwell, now you mention it, its writing to internal 2gb02:47
lcukand thats not got too much space available, even less cos of the corruption02:47
lcukso the clock is ticking for me02:47
rm_youso... upload a binary somewhere temporarily and link us to it, before we start spamming you :P02:48
lcukrm_you, just putting a binary somewhere wouldnt help02:48
GeneralAntilleslcuk fails at open source. :P02:48
rm_youfine... i'll work on your "patience" thing...02:48
lcuk:) of course02:48
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rm_youi dunno how well that'll work out tho. i can't promise i won't explode02:48
* rm_you has wanted a decent bookreader for a long time02:48
rm_youlcuk: if you give me the source, i could work on PDF support :P02:48
* rm_you nudges lcuk 02:48
GeneralAntillesI'm worried about bookmarking with that weird scrollyness.02:49
lcuki could port the pdf parser i wrote for vb, but that would just sidetrack me02:49
rm_youlcuk: right. so let me do it02:49
lcukgeniune interest rm?02:49
rm_youI'd work on it, yeah... i really want a decent pdf ebook reader >_<02:50
rm_youit's seriously been annoying me for months02:50
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rm_youand i have a book on my n800 i want to read02:50
lcukits a rather simplistic graphics library, ive not tested images yet, but it can load a range of fonts and draw them02:50
DekaritaeYay, less problems now02:50
rm_youbut i can't cause of lack of decent bookreader for pdf >_<02:50
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lcukas you have seen location and positioning is easy - it might work as a library..02:51
DekaritaeStill can't install apps from, but respositories work02:51
rm_youtar cfv source.tar sourcedirectory/ && cp source.tar /var/www/02:51
lcukrm, where arey ou02:51
lcuklocation, world02:51
rm_youWashington State, US02:51
lcukdamn, why have i always thought you were english02:51
rm_youcause thats when i'm awake?02:52
lcukno not always :) its your mannerisms02:52
rm_youI watch a lot of british TV?02:52
rm_you*a lot*02:52
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rm_youanyways, been putting off taking a shower for a long time now...02:53
rm_youthink about it, i'll bbl02:53
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pupniki wonder if a #maemo-pub channel would be appropriate02:59
lcuki think we skip the #maemo- part and get straight to the pub :)03:01
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DekaritaeWhat options has one for calendars on Maemo?03:03
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DekaritaeOr, directly linking flash applications from the Applications menu?03:04
GeneralAntillesI don't think we're at critical mass yet, pupnik.03:04
lcukif you wedge a hook on the top of you maemo, you are able to install pretty much any calendar you can find in the shops.  it just looks a bit untidy and not hildonized at the moment03:04
pupnikwhat's that newish launcher called that can launch stuff03:04
lcuka rocket?03:04
DekaritaePersonal Menu03:04
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DekaritaeYes, I use it03:04
pupnikcan that launch .swf ?03:05
lcukyer, jott shown me that at linuxtag :)03:05
lcukdunno about .swf03:05
DekaritaeI have tried with the path to the flash file as the parameter for the web browser, and it launched without the flash file03:05
lcukyou can launch a .sh and do whatever from inthere03:05
pupniki think unique311 also made a flash games collection with an index page03:05
lcukdo we have a standalone flash viewer?03:06
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lcukdoes anyone have the skills to take the plugin and host it03:06
pupnikthere's gnash03:09
pupnikme and some friends were doing a flash-like protocol for BBS's back in 198803:10
lcuki hope -fprofile-generate works03:12
pupnikyou may have to turn off your gcc cache lcuk03:12
lcukwhich cache03:12
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lcuki wasnt aware i had built pch03:13
pupnikwell see if you get the .gcno files03:13
pupnikor was it .gcda03:13
lcukyer i got a pair of files03:13
pupnikyou should get one for each .o file afaik03:13
lcukgcda per .c on compile03:13
lcukand gcno for each on running03:14
pupnikgcc -v ?03:14
lcukwhats that kill03:14
pupnikversion of your gcc03:14
pupnikjust curious03:14
pupnikoh one thing i never got to ask about is if/when we might expect a 4.x gcc03:16
pupnikok ty03:16
pupnik3.4.? has some bugs with -fprofile-generate03:16
lcukim direct on the device though, its not that important, its not borked it but it doesnt look much faster - i already personally inlined and optimised a lot of code03:16
lcukive been removing the framecounters all round now as i seem to be getting pretty stable rates :)03:17
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zerosumI just got a n800 what is a good irc channel for support?03:21
GAN800This one.03:21
zerosumis there anyway to ping the device?03:21
zerosumor see what ip address it has?03:21
zerosumits says its connected to my wlan03:21
GAN800Connection manager.03:21
GAN800or any of the typical linux commands.03:22
GAN800or check your router's dhcp03:22
zerosumhow do i get to a termanl03:22
pupnikit should respond to ping, but iirc os2007 doesn't come with ping03:22
GAN800Application menu: Utilities -> Xterm03:23
pupnikzerosum: you have os2007 or os2008?03:23
GAN800Yeah, that's right03:23
GAN800Flash it first.03:23
summatusmentisthe n800 can run os2007?03:23
GAN800They still ship with OS200803:23
GAN800er, 200703:23
zerosumits not new03:24
zerosumgot it from a friend03:24
rm_youbrb, food03:24
summatusmentisGAN800: oh, weird03:24
GAN800it shipped with OS2007 in January 2007 summatusmentis03:24
zerosumthere is no Xterm on my utilites03:24
summatusmentisThe Nokia site doesn't even sell them anymore03:24
GAN800It's more or less discontinued.03:24
rm_youand, brb food03:25
GAN800zerosum, are you running OS2008?03:25
GeneralAntillesThat's step 103:25
zerosumif i could connect to get the install i would have a connection03:25
rm_youdownload the deb and copy it over via USB03:25
rm_youand then install it03:26
rm_youBRB FOOD03:26
johnxzerosum, you can check the version by looking in system -> control panel -> about device03:26
pupnikor look at the theme - here's os2008
zerosum0S 200703:26
GeneralAntillesFlash itt.03:26
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Flash it.03:26
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nikosapiAre there beta releases of microb available? (the one with the much newer version of gecko)03:34
GeneralAntillesnikosapi, it's in svn.03:35
GeneralAntillesThere's a mostly up-to-date build here:
nikosapicool, thanks03:36
zerosumis there a way  to flash it with out a usb?03:37
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johnxI'm afraid not :/03:39
summatusmentiscan we just kill VZW now?03:39
johnxzerosum, not without a bit of creative hacking at any rate...03:39
johnxsummatusmentis, for the alltel deal? or your personal experience with them?03:39
summatusmentisjohnx: a bit of both03:40
summatusmentisThey're the most closed cell company ever, and they're huge03:40
GeneralAntillesapt-get install osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked from Bora? :D03:40
summatusmentisand they're gonna end up being the only cdma provder worth considering, and I need cdma03:40
johnxcdma naturally lends itself to building a closed carrier...03:41
summatusmentiswell, I know, but it's the only thing that works where I need it to!03:41
summatusmentisand the fact that they lock down all of their phones, and won't allow anything but a VZW phone on their network just makes it worse03:42
johnxguess it depends on how much you hate VZW...03:42
summatusmentisI go to school in Morris MN, gsm coverage is mediocre03:42
summatusmentisat best03:42
summatusmentisand this new deal is gonna kill sprint03:43
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johnxisn't vzw gonna do the "open thing" by the end of '08?03:44
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summatusmentisthat's what they claim, but all that means is they get to choose the 'certification processes' and they get to charge you money03:44
johnxso, then you'll be able to use any CDMA phone that has the right frequency support I guess...03:44
pupnikmorris... so few distractions03:45
zerosumanybody know what a question mark on the globe mean?03:45
summatusmentispupnik: you're familiar with it?03:45
pupnikyeah was up there once :)03:45
summatusmentisup? where are you located?03:45
GeneralAntilleszerosum, no IP from dhcp03:45
pupnikdrove up from the TC03:46
summatusmentismost people I talk to have never heard of Morris03:46
GeneralAntilleszerosum, forget about troubleshooting OS2007 and flash it already.03:46
summatusmentisoh, that's not really up03:46
pupnikok s/up/to/03:46
summatusmentiswhy would you go to Morris? There's not much there03:46
pupniki might ask you the same :)03:46
summatusmentisit's cliche, I feel in love w/ the campus03:47
summatusmentisand it's relatively cheap03:47
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pupniki was looking at transferring from the cities - wanted to check it out03:47
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summatusmentisjohnx: and then there's the hatred of large corporations in general03:47
summatusmentispupnik: not for you, presumably? :) so you're at the U of M?03:48
johnxas long as they stay away from GSM carriers I don't care :)03:48
summatusmentisthey're going LTE for 4g03:48
johnxLTE/4G is a mythical creature to me until I can hold a retail 4G handset03:50
summatusmentiswell, sure, but both VZW and ATT are planning on going that way03:50
pupnikno this was like 1989.03:51
summatusmentispupnik: oh, ok03:51
summatusmentisAre you still in the cities?03:51
n800nwhat version of flash is it on the n800?03:52
pupnikno i'm in krautland03:54
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pupniksometimes i think there were more germans in minnesota than here though03:54
summatusmentislol, there are a lot of germans in minnesota, yes03:56
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zerosumi dont know what i did but it works now04:02
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pupnikyou use linux on the pc zerosum ?04:03
hans-castorpwhat is the name of the default window manager in maemo?04:03
hans-castorpis there any way to disable it?04:04
hans-castorpto boot to console?04:04
johnxso no x server either...04:04
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zerosumnot normally04:05
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johnxthere are two things you'd need:04:05
pupnikhow would you input text to it04:05
hans-castorpbluetooth keyboard right?04:05
hans-castorpor usb04:06
johnxbt *might* work without X04:06
johnxusb *will* work without X as long as you echo host > ..../mode sometime during boot04:06
johnxfirst look here to enable console framebuffer:
hans-castorpsweet thanks04:06
johnxthen start digging through initscripts to safely disable the x server04:07
johnxalso, may I suggest that you setup boot from sd so you have a way to troubleshoot this when it fails04:07
hans-castorpyeah I am already04:07
johnxand also, you might be interested in debian for the tablet... ;)04:08
hans-castorprunning that right now too04:08
hans-castorpdebian is sweet.04:09
johnxit would probably be a lot easier to make debian bootable than to figure out how to safely disable the x server in os200804:09
johnxwell, the x server would be easy, but there are probably at least a couple things that depend on it04:10
hans-castorpyeah. right now I just want to boot to the console so that I can start any window manager I want04:10
pupnikif you get it working, post your info somewhere hans-castorp04:10
johnxhans-castorp, a different desktop environment? or just a different window manager?04:11
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hans-castorppupnik i'll try04:12
hans-castorpjohn, whats the difference04:12
pupnikplus, a console-only partition would be so stupid, it'd be cool04:12
pupniker, root fs. whatever04:13
johnxhans-castorp, well a window manager just draws the borders around windows and focuses one04:13
johnxthe desktop environment puts applets on the desktop, and is reponsible for the panels04:13
hans-castorpok i've always called things like gnome, kde, matchbox window managers. I guess that is incorrect04:13
johnxtechnically, metacity is the window manager for gnome04:14
johnxkwin for kde04:14
johnxmatchbox for maemo/hildon-desktop04:14
johnx(sorry, don't mean to be a pedant O_o )04:15
hans-castorpno thanks for the info johnx04:15
GeneralAntillesPedantry is important for clarity is things technical. :P04:15
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Pedantry in important for clarity is things technical. :P04:15
GeneralAntillesYou know what I mean. :P04:16
DekaritaeWikipedia says the N800 has an FM radio tuner04:16
GeneralAntillesIt does.04:16
johnxGeneralAntilles, I hate to be a pedant, but...04:16
DekaritaeHow do I utilise said tuner?04:16
GeneralAntillesInstall fm-tuner04:16
johnxhans-castorp, you might want to look at the way penguinbait launches KDE04:16
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lcukgnite folks04:26
pupnikooo new garnetvm -- i missed that04:28
pupnikyaay for rotated dislpay04:28
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pupnikthe palm folks should be real happy04:29
GAN800Yeah, it's much better04:29
GAN800Though I have 0 to -1 use for a Palm vm.04:29
johnxme neither04:30
johnxbut it's fun04:30
GAN800Palm is mostly just fun to laugh at. ;p04:30
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pupnikwell what about that pda-like stuff04:30
GAN800No, no use.04:31
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pupnikschedule/appointments etc - what do you mean?04:31
* GAN800 should get some corn torillas for nachos tomorrow.04:31
GAN800My PDA tasks are either online or in my head.04:32
pupnikisn't there palm software that syncs with the windoze world for the suits out there?04:32
pupnikoh right04:32
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pupnikbut some people simply have to plan every piece of their day04:33
GAN800Yeah, for them it's probably useful.04:33
GAN800Be nice if Nokia would just drop a mil or two on a dev team to crank out a PDA site to shut the whiners up.04:34
infobotGAN800 meant: Be nice if Nokia would just drop a mil or two on a dev team to crank out a PDA suite to shut the whiners up.04:34
pupnikbe nice if nokia bought me a harem too04:35
GAN800It's mindboggling to me that one button can so arbitrarily pick between two completely different behaviors.04:35
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GAN800pupnik, I could go for that. :P04:36
johnxGAN800, which button? center d-pad?04:37
GAN800It's even more amazing that Nokia has managed to make virtual text entry slightly buggier than it was in OS2005 in OS2008.04:37
GAN800Nah, the return key in the finger keyboard.04:38
GAN800it can't decide if it's a return key or the close-keyboard key in the corner.04:38
GAN800though the text entry nonsense with MicroB in Diablo right now is also rather hilarious.04:39
johnxI wonder if it's just a race condition04:39
GAN800It's like everybody forgot the N800 exists.04:39
johnxfor url entry it should be "send a return, then close the keyboard"04:39
GAN800Could be, it's worse now than when I first installed Diablo.04:40
johnxat least from what I understand some N810 owners still care about the osk04:40
summatusmentiswhy would they?04:40
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GAN800At least it's not 'press finger keyboard return, tap text field to bring up vkb, tap vkb return' like it was 90% of the time in Chinook.04:41
johnxsummatusmentis, quicker than sliding out the keyboard to just enter a one word search term04:41
GAN800summatusmentis, a variety of reasons. I know at least one who uses it about half the time.04:41
acydlordyeah, i sometime still use the vkb04:41
acydlordits easier on the thumbs too04:41
GAN800we're up to at least a 50% success rate with Diablo.04:42
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DekaritaeYay for nomenclature04:44
rm_youhey, Quim added his email as a CC on my bug report for Display opensource :P04:44
Dekaritae"USB female to USB mini-B male"04:44
GAN800He's on half the bugs in the db. :P04:44
rm_youwell, it's promising :P at least he read iut04:45
GeneralAntillesUnfortunately, it's not his decision. :P04:45
rm_youlol true04:45
rm_youyou think he'd approve that?04:45
GeneralAntillesQuim's an open source guy by nature.04:46
rm_youwell, time to start working on the configuration :P04:46
GeneralAntillesDon't forget the "backlight off" switch!04:47
GeneralAntillesInteresting bit:
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johnx|n800yay! my desktop crashes randomly under load :/04:50
johnx|n800desktop linux box04:51
GAN800oh, my hildon-desktop does that. :p04:51
johnx|n800was compiling xserver-xfbdev and it just died :/04:51
johnx|n800i don't think so04:52
acydlordmine has done that a few times under load04:52
GAN800Mine's also been doing that with the AC broken. :p04:52
johnx|n800just updated to a new kernel. will reboot and see if that helps04:55
johnx|n800of course the only way i'll know is by starting a huge compile and waiting for it to die04:56
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johnxnext time I think I'll buy a better mobo :/05:02
rm_youjohnx: what you using now?05:02
rm_youcouldn't possibly be my old one, it's too big...05:02
GeneralAntillesand if it never dies, wont you look like a jerk. :P05:02
johnxthe cheapest via board I could find a year ago for an s93905:03
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johnxGeneralAntilles, this one will get replaced when I have money...before it necessarily dies05:03
johnxeven when it's not crashing it still has issues05:03
rm_youwhere in the hildon API does it go over the stuff in /usr/include/hildon-input-method/ ?05:05
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GeneralAntilles ?05:07
rm_youGeneralAntilles: I think if I write a subclass of GtkMenuItem I can make it behave like I want05:07
rm_youah, not on Maemo's /dev stuff05:07
rm_youOMG this is so much better than the docs on Maemo05:08
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rm_youGeneralAntilles: yeah, i think the answer may be that I have to use GtkMenuShell to write my own implimentation of a GtkMenu that will let me add widgets05:28
rm_youwhich I might be able to do05:29
* rm_you grabs the GTK code (OPEN SOURCE!!! OMFG I SHOULD NOT BE THIS EXCITED ABOUT OSS) and gets to work05:29
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GeneralAntillesIt's kinda sad, isn't it?05:30
rm_youyeah >_>05:30
GeneralAntilles"WTF? It's open?!"05:30
GeneralAntillesShould be: "WTF? It's closed?!"05:30
rm_youwe're using... GTK+ 2.0?05:30
rm_youyes 2.10.1205:31
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Tu13esanyone tried grumby?06:03
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rm_youso if i have this little custom gtkmenu.c06:23
rm_youand i include that directly... will it use that?06:23
rm_youand then will that work on the tablet?06:24
GAN800No, because it's covered in your fail.06:24
rm_youdiving into these huge libraries when you know nothing about how they work is... very hard06:25
GAN800There must be somebody around why knows how to make it work.06:26
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rm_youbeen asking in the GTK channel06:28
rm_youlike 4 days ago i explained what i wanted to do and asked if that was feasible06:28
rm_youand i got flat out "no"06:28
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GAN800well, _somebody_ haas obviously done it. . . .06:32
rm_youNokia >_>06:33
rm_youwe *think*06:33
rm_youthey may have done something ridiculously stupid and entirely different06:33
rm_youi bet they just have more libraries that they didn't document or include the source for06:34
GAN800Could be why they're closed. :P06:34
rm_youtimeless: yo06:34
johnxso what are you onto this time rm_you?06:34
rm_youjohnx: still working on putting my applet in a real GtkMenu06:35
johnxwhich widget are you trying to embed?06:35
rm_youso it will behave properly06:35
johnxthere's a nice slider in for brightness control in gnome06:35
rm_youwhich is essentially a GtkHScale06:36
rm_youcan't get either that or GtkHScale to embed correctly in a menu06:36
johnxfine, let me dig up the source and see if it helps...06:36
rm_youi've been working on that for... ... ... 6 monthds06:36
johnxbut have you actually seen code for how someone else did it?06:37
rm_youso frustrating06:37
rm_youit's all closed source06:37
johnxin maemo yes06:37
rm_yousomeone did it in something besides maemo?06:37
johnxbut have you even looked at a similar gtk thing?06:37
GAN800rm_you, document this issue in the bug.06:37
rm_youi've found posts of people asking about HOW to do this in gtk06:37
rm_youand they all either have no response, or "can't be done"06:38
johnxis this close enough to help:
rm_youthat i can do06:38
rm_youit doesnt involve a menu at all06:38
johnxyou want to mix it in with menu items06:39
GAN800Set it to send a complaint email to Ari everytime somebody opens the applet.  :P06:40
rm_youthat's an awesome idea :P06:40
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johnxjust have it vote for the bug :D06:41
GAN800dbus, baby!06:41
johnxevery download is an implicit vote to have the bug fixed :D06:41
rm_youbut... possibly several hundred emails a day from various n8x0 users :P06:41
GAN800Not spam blockable, either. :P06:42
rm_younow most of the results that come up in my google searches are... myself06:42
GAN800I love that.06:43
rm_youmy irc bitching...06:43
rm_youmy emails to mailing lings...06:43
infobotrm_you meant: my emails to mailing lists...06:43
johnxhmm...could they be using a popup window instead of a menu?06:43
rm_youmy posts on forums06:43
GAN800That's whaat it is now.06:43
rm_youjohnx: thats what i'm using now06:43
rm_youjohnx: it is very different :(06:43
rm_youonly the menu has the behavior their applets exhibits, and the theming06:44
johnxwell yours is...but maybe they just spent the time to tweak it by hand?06:44
rm_youtimeless sent me the code they use to make it look like it looks06:44
rm_youand that's gtk_menu code06:44
GAN800rm_you, just make a list of numbers to choose from. ;P06:44
johnxGAN800, a genetic algorithm?06:44
GAN800probably be easier at this point to make a voice-activated level selector.06:46
GAN800'Computer, set brightness full'06:46
* rm_you starts on that06:46
rm_youis there already voice recognition libraries bundled with either python or something else for the tablet?06:46
NaviI'm sorry Dave, I can't do that.06:47
GAN800Then make Marvin say 'Yes, master'06:47
johnxI think it's important to use flite to issue instructions to voice recognition system06:48
johnxfeedback loop FTW!06:48
GAN800Marvin telling Marvin what to do? I love it!06:48
summatusmentiswell... there goes my plan for cheap data :-/06:49
GAN800Cellular exec, 'Muhahahaha!'06:49
summatusmentisI didn't realize most of sprint's good data coverage was because of alltel06:50
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summatusmentisoh crap... bed06:54
* GeneralAntilles needs to get the templates together for the open/closed stuff on the wiki. . . .07:02
GeneralAntillesrm_you, you're a good candidate for the first petition. :P07:04
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GeneralAntillesAdd your tale of woe to the bug.07:04
johnxbe sure to be properly dramatic07:05
GeneralAntillesNo, don't do that. :P07:05
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GeneralAntillesDon't need to drive Nokia away from the cause.07:06
johnxI was using dramatic in the theatre sense, not the "forum drama" sense07:06
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johnxas in "Woe is me! Surely my GTKmenu doth not requite my love. Aid me in my hour of need Nokia!"07:07
rm_youand lol07:07
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GeneralAntillesWrite an opera07:08
johnxthen withhold the ending 'til they answer one way or the other07:09
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DekaritaeDoes Maemo have drivers for USB->VGA?07:09
johnxincluded? I somewhat doubt it07:09
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GeneralAntillesthe sisusb driver is bundled.07:10
zerosumanyone here write python ?07:10
GeneralAntillesAt least in Diablo.07:10
shaprI've written some Python...07:10
* shapr has flashbacks07:10
zerosumhave you tried in on n800?07:11
DekaritaeWishing to purchase for purposes07:11
zerosumit on*07:11
DekaritaeOh yay07:11
GeneralAntillesThat's v.1 of that adaptor.07:11
GeneralAntillesShould work.07:11
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shaprzerosum: Oh, on maemo? Haven't done that.07:11
n800nwas opera smoother than microB?07:12
johnxfor some sites07:12
johnxit was lots worse for other stuff though07:12
shaprI liked opera for reading html books.07:12
GeneralAntillesn800n, despite whatever a lot of people want you to believe, Opera wasn't particularly fun.07:13
n800ni wish scrolling weren't this choppy07:13
GeneralAntillesIt was lighter, but it hardly worked with anything.07:13
johnxah, scrolling wasn't much different07:13
n800ni'm sure microb is better at most things, but i never had the old os, so i'm just curious07:14
Navioh yeah07:14
johnxunless you mean that weird "stutter"07:14
NaviI need to install that07:14
rm_youi miss opera :/07:14
rm_youi want it back07:14
n800nthat stutter07:15
n800nmakes me feel i'm in windows 9507:15
Navigenerate an opera package off of OS2007 and use it on OS200807:15
GeneralAntillesOpera couldn't even render /.07:15
GeneralAntillesn800n, install the svn07:15
johnxn800n, that seems to be better for me in diablo07:15
GeneralAntillesScrolling is smooth as silk.07:15
NaviSilk is pretty damned smooth07:16
johnxGeneralAntilles, different people visit different sites...07:16
n800nknoing them they prolly did it on purpose, /.07:16
GeneralAntillesand Opera couldn't render most of them, johnx. ;)07:16
Navijohnx, the diablo build isn't as new as the one that GA linked to07:16
Navithe one there is smoother :D07:16
n800nyou guys are from the future for me , with your diablos07:17
johnxNavi, fair enough. just noting.07:17
NaviI'm not running diablo07:17
n800nand superhacks07:17
GeneralAntillesn800n, don't attribute to malice what can be attributed to an old, non-standards compliant proprietary browser engine. ;)07:17
johnxGeneralAntilles, it worked fine for everything I cared about...07:17
rm_youOpera always treated me well07:17
rm_youfirefox is... bleh07:17
n800nyou have to admit general, /. is snobcentral07:17
GeneralAntillesThat doesn't have anything to do with Opera not rendering it correctly.07:18
NaviWell, the mobile opera engine used to be pretty outdated07:18
GeneralAntillesOpera from OS2007 was OLD07:18
rm_youopera is like... the most standards compliant browser i've seen07:18
n800nit's a kind of humor i was going for, guess it didn't work07:19
rm_youas far as i could tell during the last year of heavy web development i did07:19
GeneralAntillesMaybe new Opera, rm_you.07:19
Navirm_you, it wasn't that way in the Opera 7 line, which is where the engine came from07:19
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GeneralAntillesBut not the Opera from 5 years ago we had in OS200707:19
* n800n sorry for the can of worms07:20
Naviit wasn't until 8.5 where presto was nice and standardsy07:20
rm_youthey should make a new build of the micro opera07:20
NaviI think the mobile opera's on 8.5 now07:20
GeneralAntillesThey've got a version 9 of mobile Opera07:20
GeneralAntillesWhich looks pretty nice.07:20
* rm_you wonders what it is built on07:21
rm_youthey usually build with static libs, right? :P07:21
GeneralAntillesI'd like to see somebody put together a non-shitty front-end for the WebKit engine in Extras.07:21
Navithe webkit in Extras is old07:21
johnxmidori continues to improve07:21
GeneralAntillesNot as old as Opera.07:21
rm_yoummmm midori07:22
johnxthat's my pick for lightweight browsing going forward...07:22
* rm_you looks up at his big bottle of midori07:22
GeneralAntillesI want a non-gross feature-complete alternative to Nokia's crappy tablet-browser-ui.07:22
Navimidori only moves at the pace that webkitgtk moves, sadly07:22
NaviStill no file handling, cookies, etc etc07:22
johnxwebkitgtk will start moving quicker with more focus from the gnome devs07:23
NaviIt looks like they tried to attract some attention when they did plugin support07:24
GeneralAntillesI want it all and I want it now. . . .
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Navijohnx, well, the gnome devs started giving it more attention a while ago07:27
johnxyeah, I know :/07:27
johnxbut I can hope07:27
Navialp doesn't idle in here any more07:30
johnxhe's probably not impressed with how quick gtkwebkit is moving either :/07:30
NaviWell, he's totally a dev :P07:31
johnxsome people set a limit on the size of project they're willing to take on (like me :P)07:31
Navicool, new javascript interpreter07:32
johnxafter I get sapwood figured out I might try and get the latest midori compiled against webkit with that new js interpreter07:33
Navion the tablets?07:33
johnxthe hildonization of midori should be pretty straightforward07:34
johnxthere's a patch up on itt07:34
Navithough, the patch didn't use screen space effectively07:34
johnxyou mean, it doesn't push out to all the borders? or something else?07:35
Navisomething else07:35
Naviit had the URL bar and the search bar07:35
Navimaking the url bar tiny07:35
johnxwhat would you do? drop the search bar?07:36
rm_youGeneralAntilles: ok, loading and saving settings works07:36
rm_youtime to make the GUI for it07:36
NaviDrop the search bar as well as a few buttons07:36
Navithin the tab bar07:36
GeneralAntillesMake the hardkeys work right.07:36
Naviclean up the menu07:37
rm_youanyone know what type of Gtk window they use for settings boxes?07:37
rm_youah i can look07:37
rm_youosso-statusbar-cpu has one :P07:37
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DekaritaeSo, is a source known for USB mini B male to mini B male cables?08:11
johnxmaile mini b to male mini b?08:13
DekaritaeI have a USB mini hub with mini B female that I wish to connect to my N80008:13
johnxah, for a phone to n800 connection?08:13
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DekaritaeThe hub is unpowered, but it works fine with at least two USB drives connected08:13
johnxI get a couple answers from google, not sure if you already saw them08:14
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DekaritaeI found many male-to-female08:14
johnxthis is the first result:
DekaritaeLet us see if they ship to Canada08:15
johnxgoogled mini b to mini b08:16
DekaritaeI purchased two "mini B male to A female" adaptors from eBay seller via a friend08:16
GAN800Dekaritae, you could always pick une of joloius's OTG adaptors.08:16
johnxbut you're right, I didn't get many helpful results besides that one08:16
DekaritaeI also purchase 500 mA 2.5" drive enclosure08:17
DekaritaeAh, how picky is OS2008 regarding the keyboards peripheral?08:17
johnxit depends on power draw really08:18
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DekaritaeI like the dimensions of these08:18
johnxsomeone might have posted about that on itt08:19
DekaritaeShall peruse08:19
johnxI think I remember seeing that picture08:19
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DekaritaeI have a semi-chording keyboard that I will try also, Nostromo N5208:19
GAN800That's the best keyboard to get. ;)08:19
DekaritaeIBM metal plate full travel08:20
DekaritaeI hs one :)08:20
DekaritaeA roll-up keyboard may also be an option08:22
DekaritaeTypically consume 250 mA but a kludge with a AA cell and an LM7805 may be an option08:22
rm_youGAN800: ready for a beta?08:31
rm_youi will be done with this UI very soon08:31
GAN800Yeah, sure.08:31
rm_youwell, with the first bit of it08:31
timelyxhello cruel world08:31
* timelyx intends to say goodbye to maemo-developers today08:32
GAN800Hello, timelyx08:32
GAN800The Diablo/Bugzilla thread?08:32
timelyxi've had enough08:32
GAN800I loled08:32
timelyxthe stress just isn't worth it08:32
timelyxit just isn't fun[ny] anymore08:33
GAN800It's a good thing you stay clear of itT. ;)08:33
timelyxno kidding08:33
timelyxi hope you can see why :/08:33
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GAN800Damn G5 should be sleeping. . . .08:34
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rm_youis there mailing list drama?08:34
GAN800Nah, not drama08:34
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GAN800just retardation.08:35
GAN800People don't want bugs fixed in Diablo to be closed yet. :P08:35
GAN800Die G508:35
DekaritaeI get Bluetooth DUN to work with my Treo 65008:35
timelyxmy view is simple: if you're going to be a user, you're expected to use user channels08:35
timelyxincluding following a certain user protocol08:36
timelyxif you claim to be a developer, you're expected to know certain things, allowed to use08:36
timelyxcertain other channels, and obligated to behave in a certain manner08:36
timelyxthe expected to know bit is really of the form "yes, you do have to read some documentation"08:36
johnxheh..."with some power, comes slight responsibility"08:37
timelyxjohnx: hrm, may i steal that?08:37
timelyxi intend to blog about this at some point08:38
rm_youthe problem with maemo / hildon is that a lot of the documentation is either sparse or just MISSING08:38
timelyxrm_you: that's true, but i'm not asking people to read it all08:38
timelyx5 pages should be enough08:38
rm_youheh, yeah08:38
rm_youjust in my case, half the docs I need just don't exist08:38
rm_youor else are outdated08:38
timelyxsure, and you've been a good boy and filed bugs about them, right? :)08:39
johnxtimelyx, sure :D08:39
rm_youheh... heh... ....08:39
* rm_you runs08:39
timelyxs/s$/s off to file .../08:39
timelyxgood boy08:39
rm_youI actually just signed up for a bugzilla account this week....08:39
rm_youso in the future when docs are missing, I will file a bug :P08:39
timelyxbut yeah, before you file your first bug, you should probably read some example bugs08:40
rm_youbefore I just came in here and bitched... which is probably much less effective08:40
timelyxthe other important slogan: read first, ask questions later08:40
GAN800Yeah, to bitch about sources. . . . :P08:40
rm_youand docs :P08:40
rm_youmostly sources >_>08:40
rm_youtimelyx: my first bug: :P08:40
rm_youvote! :P08:40
timelyxrm_you: out of curiosity, how many of those were actually available?08:40
GAN800See #3199, which is a blatant copyright violation of my bug. ;)08:41
mrglinuxsomebody said ... the n810 or like this product didn't distribute in Asian country but some of them made in Korea.. Korea is Europain  ?08:41
rm_youyeah, i totally plagiarized GA :P08:41
rm_youtimelyx: how many of what?08:41
rm_youdocs I was looking for?08:41
rm_youmost of the statusbar apps are closed08:42
* timelyx nods08:42
rm_youand i believe most of the home apps are too08:42
rm_youthat's been my focus, pretty much...08:42
timelyxsomeone was asking about im- stuff08:42
rm_youand it has made my job so much harder08:42
timelyxand it turns out it was open08:42
rm_youyeah i asked about the API for that a minute ago08:42
timelyxi wasted a lot of time making black box apis for something that was open08:42
rm_youwell i was getting my APIs for that stuff from
rm_youturns out i needed to be on live.gnome.org08:43
timelyxyay wikis!08:43
mrglinuxdo you think can i find n810 from china .. my friend now is in china... and i tell him to buy it for me but i am worry about that ?08:43
timelyxmrglinux: um, they aren't sold in asia08:44
rm_youmrglinux: i doubt it? don't know of a native chinese localization08:44
timelyxi had thought that they were all made in finland08:44
GAN800I wonder how much of this doc stuff falls under dneary.08:44
timelyxbut i hadn't really checked08:44
GAN800korean and finland08:44
timelyxtechnically there's an entire development platform team responsible for docs08:44
rm_youmrglinux: pretty much only available in US/canada or the european union08:44
GAN800well, south korea. ;)08:44
GAN800Yeah, but dneary is easy to poke with a stick.08:45
mrglinuxrm_you: timelyx: hasn't made some n810 from Korea but Korea is Asian ... isn't?or is it possible some shop bring it to their shops ?08:45
timelyxkinda odd, we support russian, and Spanish/Portuguese for latin america08:45
timelyxmrglinux: i don't deal in hardware08:45
timelyxso if GAN800 wants to claim that some of it is made there, maybe he's right08:46
rm_youtimelyx: do you work for nokia?08:46
mrglinuxnobody form china here ?08:46
timelyxhowever, none of it is supposed to be sold there08:46
timelyxit's not an official market08:46
timelyxs/it's not/it isn't/08:46
infobottimelyx meant: it isn't an official market08:46
* timelyx sighs08:46
GAN800mine says 'made in korea'08:46
rm_youmrglinux: CAN people in china be here? *glances at China's ridiculous firewall*08:46
timelyxinfobot: good bot, have a shiny bot snack08:46
infobot:), timelyx08:46
* GAN800 shrugs08:46
mrglinuxm_you: thx .. my grammar is not good but improves08:47
rm_youwho in this channel works for nokia?08:48
rm_youI need to compile a list or something so I know when I'm talking to one of them :)08:48
mrglinuxrm_you:  ^08:48
rm_youmrglinux: yeah, np :)08:48
GAN800we all do, and we're spying on you. O_O08:48
* GAN800 runs away from rm_you to observe with binoculars.08:49
* mrglinux cry's for n810 :'(08:50
johnxso I might as well ask: anyone here familiar with the inner-workings of sapwood?08:50
johnx(it is open source of course, but I still can't wrap my head around a problem)08:50
timelyxrm_you: err08:54
timelyxdefine "works for"08:54
timelyxdoes works for, or receives salary from?08:55
timelyxoffhand, and excluding duplicates, and using the latter definition, i only recognize 308:56
* mrglinux praying 08:56
* mrglinux is praying 08:56
rm_youtimelyx: what?!08:57
rm_youok, what do you do for nokia?08:57
* rm_you is confused08:57
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lahiruHi.. is it possible to use N800 's cam from a pc ?08:58
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johnxok, so just to figure this out: timelyx, are you also timeless and timely?08:59
lahiruI tried with motion. but it's really slow :(08:59
timelyxhi :)08:59
rm_youi was wondering that08:59
rm_youi don't think he's timeless?08:59
rm_youor am i wrong08:59
lahirucan't we use the cam via usb08:59
timelyx08:59 Server timelyx is (timeless)08:59
johnxheh...should have checked that I guess08:59
rm_youbut timeless works for nokia verymuchso?08:59
* rm_you is confused again09:00
johnxlahiru, not that I'm aware of09:00
rm_youyou gave me code :P09:00
timelyxi do recognize myself when i look through the list :)09:00
rm_youwhich reminds me, I sent you another email :)09:00
timelyxyeah, i've been fighting paperwork09:00
GAN800A noble fight09:00
timelyxa losing battle09:00
timelyxbut i hope i struck a devastating block against a paper last night09:01
DekaritaeYay, Sunrise XP works perfectly with FBReader09:01
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lahirujohnx: oh :(09:01
timelyxhrm... yes, block instead of blow is an interesting thought-o09:01
lahirujohnx: thanks.09:01
johnxlahiru, there might be a program like motion that works better, but I don't know09:02
GAN800Goes with the losing battle. ;)09:02
johnxDekaritae, good to hear09:02
rm_youlahiru: well... if X forwarding works, you could ssh -X in and use mplayer on the cam :P09:02
GAN800lahiru, it's possible, but most of the methods I've seen are rather convoluted. and by 'possible', I mean like an mjpeg stream.09:02
timelyxso, none of those will ship internationally?09:03
johnxan interesting idea...can device files be acessed through sshfs?09:03
rm_youdunno, but it's just mplayer tv://09:03
KotCzarnyjohnx: no09:03
johnxfair enough :)09:03
rm_youssh -X root@n810 mplayer tv://09:03
KotCzarnyie. you would be accessing local device anyway09:03
timelyxjohnx: sshfs only requires sshd on the device, no?09:03
timelyxor do you mean /dev/X09:03
johnxKotCzarny, aaah...right...I didn't really think that through09:04
KotCzarnyunless scp supports ioctls ;)09:04
johnxsshfs is backed by sftp actually09:05
KotCzarnytimelyx: also sftp servvice enabled09:05
KotCzarnymost default sshd configs do it anyway09:05
johnxtimelyx, yes...just idle speculation on my part09:05
KotCzarnySubsystem       sftp    /usr/libexec/sftp-server09:05
* johnx returns to sifting through sapwood09:05
* timelyx doesn't get it09:06
KotCzarnythink of it as a ftp over ssh09:06
timelyxmost stores i can find, e.g. seem to offer international shipping09:06
timelyxwhy is it so hard for people to use the internet to find a device?09:06
KotCzarnysome countries are banned from getting nice tech09:07
johnxtimelyx, for a second I was having thoughts of remote device level access through ssh, but there are lots of reasons it wouldn't work :/09:07
lahirummm sounds interesting.. :)09:07
KotCzarnyie. north korea09:07
KotCzarnyjohnx: port forwarding09:07
timelyxunless you mean only that country09:08
timelyxwhich is generally not what one means09:08
KotCzarnyie. it should work with tcp/udp09:08
lahiruGAN800: I just need to use it for my Image Processing stuffs.09:08
KotCzarnytimelyx: can be others too, that was only an example09:08
lahiruGAN800: though of transmitting images from N800 to a PC09:08
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KotCzarnytimelyx: and?09:10
KotCzarnythough thanks for clarifying :)09:10
KotCzarnybut i have used it properly09:11
KotCzarnyie. made sense to use it there09:11
KotCzarnyshow me my error then09:11
KotCzarnyi saw it09:12
timelyxif you're saying there's more than one09:12
timelyxthen you want an example, (e.g.)09:12
KotCzarnybut i have said 'port forwarding, that is, tcp/udp'09:13
timelyxoh that case was correct09:13
timelyxyour previous use was wrong09:13
* KotCzarny nods09:13
KotCzarnywith previous i agree09:13
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timelyx#ref_egiecomma is interesting09:14
timelyxi need to keep that in mind when correcting docs09:14
* timelyx should try to figure out how to remove a changeset from a bzr series09:14
rm_youGAN800: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!09:15
rm_youGAN800: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!09:15
rm_you"I have sent you an invitation to extras (which covers extras-devel as09:15
rm_you --BR"09:15
GAN800Upload, gogogo09:15
rm_youneed to generate GPG/SSH keys09:16
rm_youdo they want DSA or RSA?09:16
timelyxsomeone mentioned that dsa is frowned upon09:16
* KotCzarny grins09:16
KotCzarnynsa has them all09:16
timelyxbut make sure you're using 097 and not 09809:16
timelyx098 is too complicated for my tiny little mind :)09:17
n800ni forgot... where are the mimetypes stored?09:17
timelyxn800n: and google didn't tell you?09:17
RST38hGA,Kot: you can now filter by section and repo:
RST38hStill looking for Maemo-styled icons though09:18
n800nsomebody here told me before09:18
GAN800Like I said, downsize the .deb link, drop that column and use the .install arrow. :p09:18
KotCzarnyrst, i have an idea09:18
KotCzarnymake a meta categories09:18
RST38hGiven that I am unwilling to drop the deb thing, where do I get a download icon in the same style? :)09:19
RST38h(I may drop it later but not now)09:19
KotCzarnyie. utilitie that will have few of them misspeled etc09:19
RST38hKot: Aha09:19
timelyxwhat happened to gronmeyer?09:19
RST38htimelyx: nothing, it is still there09:19
RST38hit is not well usable from a tablet though09:19
GAN800The direct .deb download is bad for newbies.09:19
KotCzarnywhat i hated in that repo/pkg mess is that sections are not usable09:19
timelyxRST38h: really?09:20
RST38hGA: Newbies shell use App Manager application09:20
KotCzarnyie. it could be in music, audio, user/sound etc09:20
KotCzarnyand one has to hit 'all' anyway09:20
RST38hKot: this requires some handwork09:20
GAN800So a newbie should never see this site. . . .09:20
KotCzarnybut not that much09:20
RST38hKot: But it can be done once though09:20
KotCzarnyand i don't want cherrypicking debs09:20
KotCzarnyonly sections09:20
RST38hGA: Rather, when he sees this site, he should no longer be a newbie09:20
KotCzarnyie. section aggregator09:21
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RST38hKot: just keep the repo input line empty09:21
RST38hI will do something about section aggregation09:21
GAN800Either way, he shouldn't get to the .deb link by accident. Which he will do if it's exactly the same size as the .install.09:21
RST38hKot: Some people WANT to select by repo09:21
KotCzarnythat's a good idea09:21
KotCzarnymaybe add repo rating/priority too?09:22
RST38hToo complicated09:22
KotCzarnynot really09:22
GAN800Change the .deb link to a text and move it.09:22
RST38hAnd nobody will use rating anyway :(09:22
KotCzarnynokia's repos will have +1009:22
KotCzarnyextras will have +509:22
RST38hKot: it was suggested to add commenting yesterday09:22
RST38hKot: THAT may be of some use09:22
KotCzarnyknown offenders will have -509:22
KotCzarnyand everything else will have 009:22
RST38hGA: Or change icon to a bomb =)09:22
RST38hnah, ratings I will not add, useless stuff +(09:23
RST38hnobody rates and I don't want to rate by myself09:23
KotCzarnynot package ratings09:23
GAN800Why do you need the .deb link to be the same size as .install, anyway?09:23
KotCzarnythink of it as priorities then09:23
RST38hGA: No specific reason, mostly visual neatness09:24
RST38hGA: I thikn I will make it available from folded text only09:24
KotCzarnyno ssh?09:24
GAN800Function over form.09:24
RST38hWell when it was added I was unsure of function :)09:24
GAN800RST38h, good, folded text is where it _should_ be. ;)09:24
RST38hIt shows me ssh09:25
KotCzarnyrst, does it work at all? i get empty results09:25
GAN800Hidden away for people who want it for a specifix reason, not in plain sight for any idiot to click on.09:25
* johnx thinks out loud: it might be nice to have gdebi on the tablet...09:25
KotCzarnyuseless then09:25
RST38hKot: Using this link:
KotCzarnyadd a 'search is a part of the string' checkbox09:26
timelyxRST38h / KotCzarny: what's the difference between section "" and section "" ?09:26
RST38hIt is already there09:26
timelyxsame for repository09:26
RST38hIt DOES search part of the string09:26
RST38htimelyx: first combo box value is always the last you have chosen09:26
KotCzarnyrst, so os doesn't work yet?09:26
RST38hthen you are presented with choices, including the one you have chosen last09:26
RST38hKot: it does not09:26
RST38hKot: may even remove it completely09:27
timelyxRST38h: it'd be better if you didn't repeat things09:27
KotCzarnyrst, don't09:27
timelyxinstead just use <option selected=selected>09:27
KotCzarnysome packages are incompatible09:27
timelyxpeople will figure it out09:27
* GAN800 is with timelyx on that.09:27
RST38htimelyx: this one has to do with html/php coding09:27
RST38hsorry, it is easier to code the way it is09:27
timelyxif php is really that broken, replace it09:27
timelyxalso, please sort 2008 > 2007 > 200609:27
RST38hsorting I will do in a second09:28
timelyxand if "" means "any", replace "" with "any"09:28
KotCzarnypreselecting is trivial09:28
KotCzarnyeven i can code it09:28
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timelyxthe size thing doesn't make sense09:28
KotCzarnyand you should display 'matched the name' > 'matched in the name' > 'matched in description'09:29
timelyxactually, you should color or bold matches09:29
rm_youwtf is a GPG key supposed to look like09:29
rm_younever used GPG :/09:29
timelyxbonus points for using google colors for multi word searches09:30
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KotCzarnycan even be done with js09:30
rm_youGAN800: any idea what GPG keys look like?09:31
rm_youwhat are they expecting09:31
timelyximg tags *must* have an ALT tag09:31
timelyxthat's a requirement. period.09:31
RST38hKot: I will highlight09:31
timelyxlines that contain "." only need to be converted into <p>s09:31
KotCzarnytimelyx: alt="picture.jpg" ?09:31
timelyxalt="Download" alt="Install"09:32
timelyxi'd italicize the maintainer09:32
GAN800rm_you, it looks like a GPG key. :p09:32
timelyxand i'd de-emphasize the version (small?)09:32
RST38hdeemphasizing the verson is wrong09:33
RST38htried that09:33
RST38hit confuses users09:33
timelyxyou might as well make the top size link go to a page that offers to calculate download size for dialup (2g, 2.5g, 3g)09:33
timelyxthat'll help people understand that it's download size09:33
RST38hI will clarify which size is the download one09:34
timelyxthat page is kinda blank09:34
timelyxdid i do something wrong?09:34
KotCzarnywip probably09:34
timelyxnote: i tend to do one drive by review on a site, and may never return :)09:35
timelyxso this is your only chance :)09:35
rm_youah finally got it09:35
timelyx<OPTION VALUE="""libs">""libs09:36
rm_youLOL they tell me this in an email they send AFTER i give them my keys: "Note! Please make sure you use the type 'rsa' when creating the SSH key.09:36
timelyxofffhand, i'm pretty sure that doesn't do what you want09:36
GAN800rm_you, hehe09:36
RST38his there some flag or css style tht I can attach to a paragraph to hide it?09:36
RST38hI mean the <P>/</P> paragraph09:37
rm_youGAN800: gah i have to rebuild all this stuff09:37
GAN800display: none09:37
GAN800rm_you autobuilder?09:37
timelyxRST38h: P { visibility: collapse } ?09:38
KotCzarnyyou can later reenable it with display:block or inline09:38
timelyxdepending on what you want09:38
timelyxvisibility may be more correct09:38
RST38htimelyx: thanks09:38
KotCzarnysetting height too09:38
timelyxnote that you should use an id or class instead of trying to style all p's :)09:39
RST38hKot: collapse should remove it completely right?09:39
RST38htimelyx: I will have to use it on per-p basis from javascript09:39
KotCzarnynever used collapse09:39
KotCzarnyonly for borders09:39
timelyxRST38h: you might want to replace s/^-{5,}$/<hr>/09:40
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timelyxjohnx: the going away blogs will be /139/ and /140/ they're currently placeholders09:43
timelyxRST38h: something's wrong w/ the openssh package09:44
timelyxthe ---'d line is clearly ok09:44
timelyxlink requires <>09:45
* timelyx doesn't like typing
timelyx<TD ALIGN=LEFT VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="100%"><TABLE WIDTH="100%"><TR><TD ALIGN=LEFT><B>openssh</B></TD><TD ALIGN=RIGHT><B>1:4.6p1-5.maemo1</B></TD></TR></TABLE><P ALIGN=CENTER><I>Secure shell client and server</I></P><P ALIGN=LEFT><TT>This is a metapackage depending on both the OpenSSH client and the OpenSSH server, which are now in separate packages. --------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>In some09:46
timelyx countries it may be illegal to use any encryption at all without a special permit. </TT></P>09:46
timelyxoh, and could you please add some newlines to the source code? :)09:46
rm_youhrm, do I have to wait a bit before I can upload packages?09:46
timelyxand you should probably try using .r { text-align: right }09:46
timelyxor something09:47
rm_youeither that or I put in my key wrong, since it is giving me "permission denied"09:47
timelyxrm_you: you have ~/.ssh/id_rsa and ~/.ssh/, right?09:47
timelyxcat ~/.ssh/*.pub >> ~/.ssh/authorized_keys09:48
timelyxssh localhost09:48
timelyxif you can successfully ssh to localhost (sshd is installed, right?)09:48
timelyxthen your key is working :)09:48
rm_youoh yes09:48
rm_youi mean, i already use this key09:48
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rm_youto ssh into this machine09:48
RST38htimelyx: You are talking to a PHP script09:48
RST38hIt doesn't care.09:48
timelyxRST38h: if i'm on dialup, i care09:49
timelyxrepeated ALIGN=CENTERs suck09:49
timelyxclass=c is a lot cheaper09:49
timelyxum... you need to html escape the maintainer09:50
timelyx<P ALIGN=RIGHT><I>Ed Bartosh <></I></P>09:50
KotCzarnynot only that09:50
timelyxotherwise someone's going to inject evil code into your web page09:50
KotCzarnybut anything from alien source09:50
timelyxyeah well... let's start w/ that? :)09:50
KotCzarnyjust make a function :)09:50
timelyxoh, and to be nice to people09:51
RST38htimelyx: Yea, I am still working on fixing that =)09:51
timelyxit's probably not best to expose email addresses directly09:51
timelyxif you can recognize things you think are "names"09:51
RST38hThese addresses are exposed already09:51
timelyxlink to a page w/ the "name"09:51
timelyxyeah yeah09:51
timelyx(in fact, mxr exposes them)09:51
rm_youis there any way to change my RSA key on the garage page?09:51
rm_youi can only imagine i managed to put it in wrong :/09:52
timelyxoh, btw, you should use <th> instead of <td><b>09:52
GAN800Gotta wait for X-Fade to get here in 3 hours to hold your hand. :P09:53
rm_youmaybe it just takes a while...09:53
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GAN800The fox has to run your key bit-by-bit to the repo server.09:54
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herwooddoes anybody know where I could find OBEX error codes?09:57
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RST38hok, fixed email addresses10:01
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RST38hvisibility:collapse does not collapse the paragraph just hides it =910:04
rm_youGAN800: ok well anyway, beta?10:05
GAN800it's too damn hot to sleep.10:05
rm_youremember to disable it before you replace the .so10:06
rm_youor it will crash :P10:06
rm_youalso, first thing you do, move the volume slider10:06
rm_youand tell me if it crashes10:06
rm_youit still does the "crash like once per install on first volume slider movement" thing....10:06
rm_youstill stumped on that, but it seems to happen almost every install, but only ONCE EVER :P10:06
KotCzarnyrst: use display:none then10:07
RST38hheight=0px;overflow=hidden; does it10:08
RST38hlemme check display:none10:08
RST38hdisplay:none works10:09
RST38hAny JS wizard cares to tell me how to quickly toggle it on click?10:09
KotCzarnyi can10:09
RST38hi.e. inside onclick10:09
KotCzarnyjust a moment10:09
KotCzarny<span onclick="document.getElementById('hide_xtrans').innerHTML=''">10:10
KotCzarnyerm, wrong one10:10
RST38hno no10:10
RST38hthis will delete it :)10:10
KotCzarnyok, so i don't have code handy10:12
RST38hok, how do I access current element's css values from js?10:13 ?10:13
KotCzarnybut i bet some of the props are available by
* RST38h stupid10:14
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zumbi_hi - can somebody tell me what xserver is nokia devices running?10:16
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johnxxomap, derived from kdrive, derived from tinyx10:18
johnxsimilar to xfbdev in many ways10:18
RST38hAll righty10:21
RST38hI have done toggling10:21
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GAN800rm_you, yes crash.10:21
zumbi_do you think there is a debian package for those X servers?10:21
zumbi_in debian i just can find xserver-xephyr10:22
KotCzarnybut don't cite me10:22
zumbi_fine, thanks - another question would be about hildon status.. is it working fine on some other resolution screens?10:23
rm_youGAN800: ok well, what do you think? (assuming you actually reloaded it)10:25
GAN800rm_you, change "Allow Zero backlight" to something else and s/Orginal/Default/10:25
KotCzarnyzumbi: define 'working'10:25
rm_you? :/10:25
rm_youto what else10:25
DekaritaeIs underclocking an option to conserve battery, or is this already done?10:26
KotCzarnyalready done10:26
rm_youKotCzarny: well?10:26
KotCzarnyrm: huh?10:26
rm_youDekaritae: lcuk does it in his new app...10:26
GAN800Allow backlight-off or Allow turning off backlight and change the N800 warning.10:26
zumbi_KotCzarny: with 'working' i mean if hildon does fine on other resolution screen, besides N{7,8}xx devices10:27
GAN800or at least lowercase it.10:27
rm_youI was going to have MORE warnings10:27
DekaritaeMy Palm runs at 200Mhz but I use Lightspeed to drop it down to 133 Mhz when playing music or reading books10:27
KotCzarnyzumbi: then answer is: partially10:27
rm_youand a second checkbox "Are you REALLY sure?"10:27
KotCzarnyie. with rotating you can get 480x800 res10:27
KotCzarnyand some windows are simply too wide to use comfortably10:27
zumbi_KotCzarny: ok - i understand it works then, but it may have to be hacked a little10:27
KotCzarnybut overall works10:27
GAN800Dekaritae, cpu speed is adjusted automatically10:27
zumbi_KotCzarny: thanks10:28
KotCzarnyit's just that 800x480 is assumed in many places10:28
johnxzumbi_, hildon the lib works fine, hildon-desktop with panels is a bit resolution dependent10:28
GAN800rm_you, did you see the hardware keys patch on Garage?10:28
KotCzarnyDekaritae: you can hack speeds inside the kernel10:28
GAN800Check Garage. :P10:29
GAN800There's a patch somebody submitted to allow hardware keys to control the applet.10:30
rm_youah nice10:30
GAN800Anyway, I'm sleeping now. Toss me whatever you get going via email.10:31
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rm_youso wait10:31
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rm_youwhats wrong with "Allow Zero Backlight (n800 users beware!)"10:31
GAN800Well, correct the capitalisation at least (zero backlight, N800)10:32
rm_youwhy is it bad like it is?10:32
GAN800I'm just not in love with the phrasing, but it's not super important as I don't have a great alternative.10:32
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GAN800Is it checked by default for N810 users?10:33
rm_youanyone else have any good ideas?10:33
rm_youbetter for a checkbox than "Allow Zero Backlight (n800 users beware!)"10:33
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GAN800Because I imagine more N810 users will want to turn it off than N800 users on.10:34
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gomiamI'm suffering disconnections continuously10:35
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Mikhodoes anybody know how to *unload* a desktop plugin?10:46
keesjyou can disable them with the menu , unloading is a lot harder10:47
MikhoId like to give the user a simple "Quit" button in the plugin10:47
Mikhowhy does it have to be so difficult?10:48
timelyxit's conceptually hard10:48
timelyxthe launcher doesn't really know what hooks you've introduced10:48
timelyxor how well you can clean up10:48
Mikhowell, the launcher doesn't need to know, as it's the plugin thats killing itself10:49
lcukif you can "quit" a plugin, doesnt it just become a normal app you can run10:50
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Mikhonormal app wouldn't run in the statusbar area10:53
MikhoI want it to run in the statusbar area10:53
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timelyxMikho: you know that the user can uncheck your item from the control panel, right?10:57
timelyxand have you looked at pidgin?10:58
johnxcan't the statusbar be a host to normal linux tray applets?10:58
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rm_youMikho: you should have a finalize function... you can just call them manually11:00
rm_you        G_OBJECT_CLASS(g_type_class_peek_parent(G_OBJECT_GET_CLASS(object)))->finalize(object);11:00
rm_you        g_free(statusbar_plugin);11:00
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rm_you        AdvancedBacklightPlugin *statusbar_plugin=ADVANCED_BACKLIGHT_PLUGIN(object);11:01
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Mikhowell, I have a finalize function, but I'm not sure if it's enough if I just call it, as it's supposed to be a callback function11:01
Mikhoand I don't want the user to meddle with control panel in order to just run or quit the plugin. Too many clicks11:02
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Mikhorm_you, are you sure just calling finalize is enough?11:03
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rm_younot sure...11:07
rm_youpossibly not11:07
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MikhoI'm checking hd-plugin-manager.c in hildon-desktop sources to find out how it loads the plugins11:12
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timelyxhave you checked pidgin yet?11:14
timelyx (very old version)11:15
timelyxinfobot mxr-maemo-org dns?11:15
timelyxoh well11:16
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Mikhono, I wasn't sure what you meant by checking pidgin at first11:17
timelyxwell... pidgin is an application, and it probably can appear in the status bar11:18
timelyxit might also be able to disappear from it11:18
timelyxif it can, then since it's open source,  you can find out how by reading the source :)11:18
Mikhooh, I see11:18
timelyxthis is the power of open source ... :)11:18
MikhoDidn't know you had pidgin on N81011:18
MikhoI'm running it on my work pc atm11:18
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timelyxinfobot gronmayer?11:19
infobotwell, gronmayer is an index of maemo/ITOS repositories
timelyxyou probably want to visit that site11:20
timelyxmaybe the other one someone was writing earlier11:20
timelyx... today :)11:20
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Mikhotimelyx, you're right, pidgin runs in the statusbar and it has a quit button11:30
MikhoI'll check the source11:30
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rm_youjohnx: you there?11:36
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johnxfor another 5 min :P11:37
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rm_youso... that guy posting howtos on the a2dp thread11:37
rm_youdidn't he just like...11:37
rm_youmake it work worse than just using a2dp on11:37
rm_youand then switching kagu to mplayer?11:37
johnxbut're right11:38
johnxI forgot it was that easy11:38
rm_youi kinda want to go tell him to shit up11:38
johnxtry and be nice11:38
johnxmaybe he'll actually improve it if encouraged11:38
rm_youhe added like 5 layers of abstraction11:38
rm_youand rewrote the perfectly legible howto you had on page 111:38
johnxand used my crappy script anyways :)11:38
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johnxso ask him how it's better11:39
johnxBTW, tracked my sapwood problem down to either: sapwood_pixmap_get_for_file or pixbuf_proto_request11:41
b0unc3good morning11:41
rm_youwtf is sapwood11:41
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johnxsome weird pixmap loader/cacher for hildon themes11:41
johnxall I care is that it doesn't work right on my zaurus11:42
johnxanyways, out of here11:42
rm_yourunning hildon on ur zaurus? :P11:42
rm_youlol, to work?11:42
johnxrm_you, yup11:42
b0unc3guys, the scratchbox installation put something in /opt ?11:45
kulveno, not by default11:45
kulveby default it goes to /scratchbox11:45
b0unc3uhm... I found a /opt/maemo/... and I don't know what is it...11:47
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andre___hmm, how do i create an account in when i click on "log in / create account" i only get a login option11:53
trickie|workandre___: should be the same as the garage/other maemo login11:57
trickie|worksingle sign on11:57
trickie|worki think11:57
andre___argh, right, we merged that11:58
* andre___ slaps himself11:58
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rm_youX-Fade: you there?12:41
lardmanlcuk: video looks good :)12:42
lardmanlcuk: But where's the bit with physics effects and zooming while you hold - that is also very cool so stick it in! :)12:43
rm_youlardman: so SBC works? :P12:44
* rm_you is excited12:44
lardmanrm_you: effectively sbcenc on BE .au files, yes12:44
rm_you... hrm12:44
lardmanrm_you: That's the test code, so that's what I implemented12:44
rm_youhow will mp3 work?12:45
rm_youdoes it normally decode on the DSP?12:45
rm_youif so, will that have it decoding AND encoding on the DSP?12:45
lardmanyeah, that will be troublesome12:45
lardmanno, you can't obtain the pcm data after decode12:45
rm_youok well12:45
rm_youlibmad is fine12:45
rm_youour processor isn't THAT slow12:45
timelyxrm_you: :)12:45
lardmanbut atm the ARM has to do mp3 decode + sbc encode, so we'll save something12:45
rm_youa lot, hopefully12:46
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rm_youtimelyx: lol, a little late :P12:46
rm_youtimelyx: you at work? :P12:46
lardmanSerge obtained the code for a basic mp3 decoder, so I'll start on that next12:46
rm_youtimelyx: yes, I get it :P12:46
timelyxrm_you: the in my nick 'x' means i'm on my mac (at home)12:46
* timelyx obviously got stuck in scrollback12:47
rm_youyou should SSH into work and tell me if the display applet IS for sure using a HildonMenu12:47
lcuklardman, its no good posting here in daytime i almost always miss things :P   you are right about the scaling and jostling, but i did too many sketches and there are simply too many for the screen at the mo, when i finish the categorisation and evolution code it will be back (along with other stuff)12:47
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rm_youerr, a GtkMenu or any derivative12:47
timelyxno, i should walk to work and get lunch :)12:47
rm_youok... and then that thing I suggested :P12:48
timelyxwe'll see...12:48
rm_youI've been battling with this thing for 6 months! throw me a bone >_>12:48
rm_youif you don't believe me, look at IRC logs for december/january :P12:48
* lcuk throws RM a bone and remembers also starting on a road a few months ago :) 12:48
rm_youlol yeah12:49
timelyxyou haven't given me a reason not to believe you (good thing too)12:49
lardmanlcuk: no worries, I just emailed you to make sure you got it12:49
rm_youwell, back to working on iconset themes12:49
rm_youand then would love to beta 0.9 tonight12:49
rm_youand get it out tomorrow pending no major bugs12:49
rm_youbeen too long since release12:49
lcuklol using vnc is v slow and im  running a scan on this computer so vnc is flashing hypnotically12:50
rm_youI need to find a decent C string library to use12:50
rm_youtired of dealing with char* and strncpy12:50
lcukwhats wrong with the built in funcs rm?12:50
rm_youis there a builtin string lib?12:51
rm_youI wasn't aware of one12:51
lcukyou're already using it :P12:51
rm_youI don't use C much tho >_> I'm a C++ / Java guy12:51
lcukthe cpu12:51
rm_youchar* / sprintf / strncpy is ANNOYING to deal with12:51
rm_youwhen i just want to have a simple string12:51
rm_youespecially variable length12:52
rm_youright now I'm wasting resources making them bigger than they need to be by quite a bit to avoid overflows12:52
lcukstrndup will copy an arbitary length string (free with free)12:53
rm_youI also really need to get this stuff split up into multiple files... this one huge file is becoming very cluttered12:53
lcukor just malloc what you need12:53
rm_youyeah... about that12:53
rm_youwell, i use calloc generally... no real difference, right?12:53
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lcukapart from speed, if you are going to init it yourself whats the point in wasting time running { malloc(); clear() }...12:54
lardman~lart dsp polling12:54
* infobot blasts dsp polling to oblivion with a kamehameha wave12:54
rm_younot gonna...12:55
rm_youlike right now, i need to read all the files in a directory12:55
lcukif you're not gonna init it yourself, why are you allocating?12:55
rm_youand do a bunch of string ops on the filenames12:55
lcuklol heh...12:55
* rm_you just hates C strings12:57
lardmancu chaps later on12:57
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lcukstring parsing and pattern matching can be done numerous ways, if you can get away with a scanf great, if not, a simple regex might work well for you, failing that you could create a mini parser, or even define a complete grammar for them, the point is you can certainly find what you need and not be limited to just whats supplied - theres plenty of things around - general c code libraries do exist and most are platform independent so12:57
lcuk dont just look for maemo libs12:57
rm_youthats why i said i needed to look for a decent string library :P12:58
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rm_you... and we're back around to the beginning of the conversation12:58
lcuki had similar issues, both with filenames and contents12:58
rm_you\so anyway... know any good ones12:58
lcukthat is life12:58
rm_youI could do regexp i suppose...12:59
* rm_you knows regexp! :P12:59
lcuki just split my filenames at  arbitary seperators and make sure each span is in the right format12:59
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trickie|workmgedmin: its a replacement i have when i 'escape :wq' in irc windows13:31
trickie|workmgedmin: meant to make my co-workers laugh13:32
rm_youi hit esc :wq in notepad a lot <_<13:33
rm_youand Word13:33
rm_youand VB613:33
rm_youand real life <_<13:33
X-Faderm_you: Can you try again?13:33
hrwI used gvim with BC++13:33
rm_youX-Fade: tried twice more13:33
X-FadeI don't see any connections from you.13:34
rm_youwant me to put it on loop? :P13:34
X-Faderm_you: Can you try again? ;)13:35
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rm_youthere its on loop13:36
rm_youwhile true; do13:37
X-FadeI see your ip. Ends on 224.13:37
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mgedminrm_you: what are you trying?13:37
rm_youuploading to extras13:37
X-Faderm_you: Do you have pubkey auth enabled?13:37
mgedminif you run ssh, what do you see?13:38
mgedminyou should get a message that this is a restricted account and that you cannot execute anything there13:38
rm_youPermission denied (publickey,keyboard-interactive).13:39
X-Faderm_you: Invalid user aharwell13:39
mgedminusername mismatch!13:39
X-FadeAnd invalid user hrw too ;)13:40
rm_youThis is a restricted account.13:40
X-Fade Accepted publickey for rm_you from 131.13:40
rm_youwhy doesnt dput work13:40
rm_youdput still permission denied13:40
mgedminare you sure that's not the same problem?13:40
mgedminis dput using the right username?13:40
X-FadeDid you specify a username for dput?13:41
rm_youi think its going to the wrong server13:41
rm_youor rather13:41
mgedmintrying to upload to debian instead of maemo? ;-)13:41
hrwX-Fade: just had to check ;d13:41
rm_youthe scp line just has "rm_you@garage:/"13:41
rm_youit does have the full host13:41
infobotrm_you meant: it doesn't have the full host13:41
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X-Faderun it with verbose?13:42
mgedmin.ssh/config allows you to use shortcuts13:42
mgedminlike described in
rm_yougot it13:42
rm_youthe code i copy/pasted into my dput.conf was wrong13:42
rm_youit just had "garage" as the fqdn13:42
hrwtime to run own repo :D13:43
hrwe2fsprogs is n/a for os200813:43
mgedminbut still... permission denied instead of cannot resolve hostname?  weird13:43
X-Faderm_you: If you use the assistant, then you don't have to worry about this complicated ssh thingie ;)13:43
mgedminX-Fade: the assistant is pretty!13:43
* mgedmin wishes he had something ready to upload13:44
rm_youwhich assistant?13:44
rm_youdidn't see anything about that13:44
X-Fademgedmin: Well, that was the last thing I was aiming for ;)13:44
X-FadeBut the assistant uploads to the autobuilder and not directly to the repo.13:44
andre___hmm, so it seems the source code of mnotify is not available? (man, we really need a list of that)13:45
Italodancehi guys13:45
mgedminthat's good, I think13:45
mgedminmakes sure your source package works13:45
X-FadeYeah, and it uploads to extras-devel. So you have to promote your own package to extras atm.13:46
rm_youso, is my package installable via extras now?13:46
rm_youor do i have to wait more13:46
X-Faderm_you: The queuerunner runs a few times an hour. So it takes a little bit of time.13:46
X-Faderm_you: What app did you upload?13:47
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X-Faderm_you: It is already in extras.13:48
rm_youthat was quick13:48
X-FadeBut you have to wait for the caching network to catch up ;)13:49
rm_youhope to debut 0.9 in there tomorrow13:49
X-FadeFilename: pool/chinook/free/a/advanced-backlight/advanced-backlight_0.8-1_armel.deb13:50
hrwguys: if I would prepare debian srcpackage - can someone try to build it?13:50
X-Fadehrw: Just upload them to the autobuilder?13:50
rm_youand if someone can sneak me some info about the nokia display statusbar applet... *hint hint*13:50
hrwX-Fade: I do not have idea will it be proper at all13:50
mgedminrm_you: it has a picture of a sun, but don't tell anyone!13:51
mgedminhrw: sure13:51
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X-Fadehrw: Doesn't matter. It will end up in -devel only if it builds ;)13:51
X-Fadehrw: And extras-devel is for experimental packages, so no problem.13:51
hrwit is part of our LT evil plan13:51
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X-Fadehrw: Use the assistant to request rights and upload the source package. See if that works for you.13:53
rm_youdamn, quim rejected my bug / request for the display applet source :(13:54
rm_youso 6 more months of suffering are in my future13:54
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rm_youuntil fremantle, after which i get to suffer for another inordinate amount of time13:54
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Italodancerm_you did u installed xmms?14:00
rm_youat one point14:00
rm_youhavent since my last flash tho14:01
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hrwsomeone has e2fsprogs for maemo/os2008?14:05
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mrglinuxhasn't made n8XX in Korea too ?14:12
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rm_youwho here uses Advanced Backlight?14:36
luognirm_you, i use it!14:39
hrwsomeone want e2fsprogs?14:39
rm_youluogni: you use n810 or n800?14:39
luognirm_you, N800 os200814:39
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luognihrw, isn't e2fsprogs already in maemo repository ?14:40
rm_youluogni: so, the new backlight applet has the ability to turn the backlight completely off14:41
X-FadeThe SDK repo, but not extras.14:41
hrwluogni: my n810 does not see it14:41
rm_youluogni: which on the n800 makes it impossible to see the screen14:41
rm_youluogni: now, by default it will NOT let n800 users do this14:41
lcuknot impossible to see the screen, it just makes it like pin the tail on the donkey14:41
* unixSnob also uses adv-backlight on an n80014:41
rm_youluogni: but in the settings menu there is a checkbox that will lets you do that14:41
luognihrw, right, it's not in extras, only in SDK14:41
rm_youlcuk: n800 isn't transflective or whatever... >_>14:42
rm_youluogni / unixSnob: so, what would you think the checkbox should say?14:42
lcukand the blindfold i wear when pinning the tail isnt lace or anything...14:42
rm_youright now the text on the checkbox is: "Allow Zero Backlight (n800 users beware!)"14:42
unixSnobI must have a slightly older version.. I don't think I have that option14:43
rm_youGA didn't like that text <_<14:43
rm_youunixSnob: this is the 0.9 beta14:43
rm_youjust about to release it14:43
luognirm_you, why would someone set zero backlight? is it useful?14:43
rm_youon n810 yes14:43
lcukcant you identify machine type and just allow or disallow depending upon model14:43
rm_youon n800 i dunno14:43
rm_youlcuk: yes, that was the old behavior14:43
rm_youby popular vote i am allowing the OPTION14:43
luognirm_you, just disable it on n800 :)14:43
rm_youi did14:43
lcukbut the option itself shouldnt even be visible for 800 owners surely?14:43
rm_youbut people wanted the OPTION available in case14:43
unixSnobwhat is zero backlight?  Is it reduced less than one, or is it off?14:44
rm_youno, n800 users specifically requested the option to let it do that14:44
lcukmind you with 0 level backlight it sorta cures itself :)14:44
hrw~curse nokia guy who 'maintain' busybox14:44
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, nokia guy who 'maintain' busybox !14:44
hrw~curse nokia guy who 'maintain' busybox again until he learn14:44
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, nokia guy who 'maintain' busybox again until he learn !14:44
rm_youright so the default behavior in the past was always: n810: allow backlight off, n800: allowbacklight to go to minimum but not off14:45
rm_youso now there is an option in the new settings menu14:45
rm_youto allow n800 users to let it turn off their backlight14:45
rm_youwhat do you think the checkbox text should be?14:45
lcukbut can me as an 810 owner prevent all off - we arent always in the sun :)14:45
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rm_youlcuk: yes14:46
rm_youn810 users can uncheck it14:46
luognirm_you, oh ok! maybe just add a check like "Allow Zero Backlight" and when you press OK (or check the checkbox) show a msgbox to n800 users "Are you really sure you want to enable it?"14:46
rm_youi thought about that14:46
unixSnobrm_you: I think it's well written as it is, if there really is reason for caution14:46
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unixSnobWhat's the risk to n800 users?14:46
rm_youwill release a beta in a sec and you'll see14:46
rm_youwell, its hard to turn it back on if you cant see the screen to open the menu and poke the slider :P14:47
lcuk"You have disabled the backlight, please press [here] to cancel this operation and restore your backlight" ;)14:47
unixSnobIf there is a separate popup warning, it should also state the risk14:47
rm_youyeah maybe I will do that14:47
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lcukactually, the (yuck) windows display settings have it right "you have changed your settings, click ok to confirm they are good"  with a 10 second countdown which restores things if you dont click14:48
luognilcuk, well it's quite different. i don't want a popup every time i change brightness :)14:49
lcukbut all this is way OTT for a little app ;)  UI designers really are busy people14:49
lcukno you dont luo, but if you mouseup after turning it totally off its a bit different14:49
* unixSnob wonders why n810 users are relieved from the zero backlight problem14:50
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lcukcos the screen has little holes to allow light to filter behind and data is somewhere visible in bright sunlight with the light totally off14:54
lcuki can see a matrix of dots (about every 4-8pixels) when i look closely in sun14:54
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unixSnobah.. so n810 users are a little hindered.. you must have bright light to get to it, it sounds14:55
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unixSnobWell the app could simply bump the value up to 1 if there is any interaction.. that would be the way to fix it14:56
lcukyer, but i suppose its better than not visible at all14:56
unixSnobrm_you: is that complicated to implement?14:57
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* unixSnob suspects it would be easy to act on any action... doesn't the IM apps have the same feature, so an offline user can have their status set to online when they access the device?14:58
rm_youbut then there wouldnt really be a point of turning it off14:58
rm_youbecause people who REALLY want it off, REALLY want it off14:58
unixSnobrm_you: i thought the point in turning it off was to pre-empt the timeout.. for battery savings14:59
rm_youi cant speculate as to why people want what people want14:59
rm_youi just know how frustrated I get when the application thinks it is smarter than me and knows what i want better than i do14:59
rm_youwhich it doesn't.15:00
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rm_youi try to reflect that in my programming15:00
rm_youthe application should not try to outthink the user.15:00
unixSnobrm_you: then the answer would be to change the value from zero to 1 after a specified action that could not happen accidentally.. like pressing up then down, for example15:00
mgedminoh, joy, darius sent another mail to the list15:01
unixSnobOne thing that bothers me about turning the backlight on is that there is no neutral action to get it on15:02
jeshdoes anyone happen to know where g_warnings go on scratchbox? :)15:02
X-Fademgedmin: Yeah, another classic :)15:02
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jeshshoud i set some enviroment variable to see them?15:02
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mgedminlcuk: level 0 backlight on a n800 -- do the usual trick "press the ok button or I'm reverting the option back in 30 seconds... 29 seconds... 28..."15:03
unixSnobEg. I'm on a webpage and screen blackens.  I hit UP, and it moves to another field15:03
RST38h[lcuk too]15:03
mgedminwith a random position for the dialog so the user can't cheat :-)15:03
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mgedminoh, it's already been suggested15:03
* mgedmin reads the backlog15:03
rm_youi don't know if it's immediately obvious what i'm talking about...15:05
mgedminRST38h: why *two* blank choices in the first dropdown?15:05
rm_youbecause that kind of dialog every time the user switches to zero backlight would be annoying15:05
lcukhi mg :)15:05
mgedminevery dropdown, looks like15:05
mgedminxchat is not found in any repo :/15:05
mgedminvim is not found in any repo15:05
rm_youwhat is this?15:05
lcukcos its only a beta isnt it, though lots use it - contact the owner of the site and see if he minds?15:06
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unixSnobrm_you: give the user an option to disable the dialog :)15:06
mgedminokay, is there any package that can be found?15:06
rm_youthis is getting ridiculous15:06
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rm_youits fine like it is15:06
lcukmgedmin, yer theres a deb somewhere15:06
RST38hmgedmin: technical thing15:06
rm_youi was really just asking for suggestions for the text :P15:06
unixSnobrm_you: yes i agree15:06
RST38hmgedmin: they are probably in some repos not included into the list yet15:07
lcukrm_you, could you add an option to allow me to make the option visible to decide if i want to have the option to make all the options go away?15:07
rm_youlcuk: no :P15:07
unixSnobBut a feature to go from 0 to 1 would be useful15:07
lcukrm_you, ok then, ill look at this from the other side: can we overclock the backlight - i wanna go to 11 and get a tan whilst using my 81015:08
unixSnobYou know what bugs me is when I'm typing w/ a USB keyboard, the screen goes dim, and off.. it doesn't know I'm using the damn thing15:09
lcukmgedmin, i finally created a youtube vid of my program by the way,
lcukunixSnob, bug report - there may still be time to get it fixed whilst this push is underway?  or it might have already been noticed and cured15:09
Tu13eshm, anyone here tried grumby?15:09
unixSnobrm_you: Also, give us partial steps.  See if you can modify the display driver to use a floating point number for brightness instead15:10
lcukanyway, afternoon of work awaits, back later15:10
unixSnoblcuk: I'll look into it15:10
rm_youlcuk: give me the source for your app :P15:10
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mgedmin"Maemo is to much about poetry" -- pure gold15:13
hrwdoes someone edited fanoush initfs menu to react on other key then menu? home/back for example15:13
Aveput that in your pipe and smoke it15:13
rm_youpatch applied15:15
hrwRST38h: 1. sort sections 2. give names for repositories 3. remove empty lines from both lists15:15
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hrwRST38h: group packages by name15:16
RST38hhrw: 1. in a moment 2. not possible, names are pretty unreadable in the metadata15:16
RST38hhrw: 3. ? 4. packages already grouped and sorted by name15:17
trickie|workmgedmin: thats def one of his best posts!15:18
hrw5. check does user selected something...15:18
trickie|workmgedmin: pure entertainment15:18
hrw6. remove size:0 installed:0 name:"" packages15:18
mgedminI liked the one-man think-tank best15:18
trickie|workyes that was also awesome15:18
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hrwRST38h: by grouping I mean: "canola2 | description | list of versions with links to install"15:19
RST38h#3 will require some thinking15:19
RST38h#6 is a bug15:19
RST38h#5 - you want to require a query string?15:20
RST38han empty query string means "return all"15:20
hrwRST38h: your machine is ready for pushing me whole database each time when I press 'search'?15:20
mgedminlcuk: sweet movie!15:22
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hrwRST38h: empty lines are<SELECT NAME="Section">15:22
hrw<OPTION VALUE="">15:22
hrw<OPTION VALUE="""devel">""devel15:22
RST38hhrw: right now, yes15:23
hrw3 empty before ""devel (which should be filtered as devel)15:23
RST38hhrw: well, this is what the server returned me15:23
hrwRST38h: never trust data15:23
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RST38hwill probably restrict it to alphanumerics and /15:24
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Schubiduhow far is diablo from been finished ?15:31
Schubiduor does it make sense to install it already ?15:31
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Stskeepsyes, my son?15:42
rm_youI have no idea how to do this...15:42
rm_youhave to use a char**15:42
mgedminhave fun writing c code :-)15:42
Stskeepsit's an array of char pointers, how bad can it be? :P15:42
rm_youi hate C Strings15:42
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mgedminbe happy it's not an array of functions taking an array of char pointers15:42
Stskeepscode in python15:43
KhertanHi !15:43
rm_youtime to figure out how to dynamically make an array of strings15:43
Schubiduperl !!15:43
rm_youC >_>15:43
* rm_you is stuck in C15:43
Khertan !!!15:43
Schubidui just barly remeber my last time i coded in C15:44
Schubidumust be on an sun 2015:44
rm_youi seriously dont even know how to start... i guess i'll find out what the function i'm running returns... it should be an array of char* already i think15:44
summatusmentisrm_you: fwiw, that's pretty standard practice in the kernel >_>15:45
lcukmost functions in c expect you to pass the address of the result buffer as a parameter, its rare for the function to allocate memory itself15:45
rm_youwell i have to create my own since i need to prune the list it gives me15:45
rm_youunless i can just prune the array it gives me... <_<15:46
lcukthis is still file list isnt it15:46
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rm_youneed to get a sorted list of all directories in a directory15:46
lcukcos in my code the dir functions work on a single item, and i just call it multiple times until it says no more files15:47
lcuki build a linked list of the results if they matched what i want15:47
rm_youyou happen to have C code to do that? :P15:47
lcukyes and no...15:47
rm_youand then once i have them i need to pass them to another function that will run through them in a loop15:47
lcukive got the code here with me at work on my 810 (i compile on device) but i havent got any way to get it out until i get home (no wireless/usb/bt/anything)15:48
lcuklemme see if an older version is around15:48
rm_youmeanwhile, i am looking up how to do it15:49
RST38hhrw: Check - bad section names should be gone now15:49
RST38hhrw: and the problem with extra line in combos should be gone as well15:49
rm_youi guess with something like this:
hrwRST38h: why it show 'cpio' when I search for tar?15:52
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rm_youcpio is used to extract rpm files?15:53
rm_yousimilar to tar extracting... tar files? >_>15:54
rm_youdunno <_<15:54
rm_youso, if I have a string...15:55
rm_youhow would i add it to a char**15:55
Stskeepschar *foo[] = { "foo" }; could work i guess15:59
RST38hhrw: means that tar occurs either in the package name or in its description16:00
RST38hGNU cpio is a tool for creating and extracting archives, or copying files from one place to another. It handles a number of cpio formats as well as reading and writing tar files.16:01
RST38hnotice the mention of tar16:01
rm_youI miss Java and Python sooo much >_>16:02
rm_youeven C++16:02
hrwRST38h: but this part is not shown16:02
RST38hhrw: click on the package entry16:03
Schubidubye for now16:03
hrwRST38h: sorry but it is very non-intuitive16:04
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RST38hhrw: Just a short while ago, GAN and a few other people ASKED me to make it foldable16:07
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hrwwith title without any mark of being clickable?16:08
hrwRST38h: did you checked OE feed browser?16:09
RST38hhrw: Well, I can't put a "click me" message on every line16:09
RST38hwill look ugly16:09
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hrwat least change cursor to 'hand' on them16:10
rm_youRST38h: what am i doing wrong... i select os2008 and type in a package name and click search, and it never finds anything16:12
RST38hrm_you: do not select OS2008, leave that field empty for now16:12
RST38hhrw: Do you have code to do that?16:12
rm_youah ok16:12
rm_youah yeah you need like... a little sideways arrow16:13
rm_youto indicate that you can click16:13
rm_youand make the text look like a link sorta... maybe just underlined and blue16:14
RST38hchecking how it can be done...16:14
rm_youor SOMETHING16:14
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rm_youwant the css for it?16:14
RST38hfound it16:14
RST38hwhat is the mouse-over event name in html?16:14
RST38hThere is ONCLICK for clicks, what is the name for mouse-over?16:15
* rm_you was waiting for confirmation16:16
rm_youtho that will not be useful on tablets...16:17
rm_youthey can't mouseover <_<16:17
rm_youso i would try not to use that for anything16:17
rm_youdamn this should be easy i just don't know C at all16:19
rm_youin java this would have been done 4 months ago16:19
pupnikwhat are you doing rm_you ?16:20
rm_youend goal: look in one specific directory, and put the names of every directory inside that one (not recursive, very simple) into an array of char*16:20
rm_youif I use dirent and opendir and readdir16:21
rm_youi can go through the files one at a time16:21
rm_youand i can use the properties to find out if it is a directory or not16:21
rm_youi just don't know how to put the name in a char* and then add that to a char**16:21
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lcukrm, sorry it took too long, boss wanted a discussion,
rm_youthat's what i have... basically the example from some site, in my little function16:23
rm_youlcuk: oo16:23
rm_youlol i pasted 1 after you :P16:23
RST38hrm_dir: resize thing done16:23
rm_youwow, that's WEIRD16:24
rm_youput it back >_<16:24
rm_youjust make the text underline and turn blue like any sane link16:24
lcukand somewhere deep within ive got identification code to tell me if its a folder or not, i personally think its one of the attribs on the dir_entry_p structure, but dont quote me on that16:25
rm_youit is16:25
rm_youi know how to do that16:25
rm_youwow, not quite sure what you're doing there16:27
lcukgood, if you are dead set on building an array of string names, run through the directory list TWICE, or use recursion.  when you have run through it once you will know EXACTLY how many elements you need to allocate for your array :)16:27
rm_youyou've got... pagefiles? and some other stuff16:27
rm_youoh yea16:27
rm_youi could do that :P16:27
rm_youthanks :P16:27
lcukyer, its loading all valid pages (sketches drawn) and putting them into the frameroot grouping (linked tree structure)16:28
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lcukchar *themenames[256];  int used=0;       while ((de = readdir(d)) != NULL)  themenames[used++] = strdup(de->d_name);                     free all names [0..used-1]16:30
RST38hrm_you: look, I am tired of this16:31
rm_youso wait... if i have an uninitialized char* and I want to put a dir->d_name in it...16:31
lcukand also check that used<25616:31
rm_youRST38h: lol16:31
RST38hrm_you: there is absolutely no way to satisfy everybody16:31
rm_youRST38h: just sayin :P16:31
lcukof course there is16:31
RST38hI will highlight the thing, but next time I am asked about changing it - the answer will be "no"16:32
rm_youjust saying, the majority of users of this will be ON tablets... which will be unable to use mouseovers16:32
rm_youand that resize cursor is just awkward :P16:32
rm_younot to mention tablets don't have visible cursors16:32
lcukright, ill hide again now16:33
lcukback later16:34
rm_youlcuk: kk thx16:34
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RST38hhmm...highlight does not work for some reason16:34
RST38hoh well, will just leave it as it is16:34
rm_youyou could give your TD with the package name a class like "packagename" and then add to your css: "td.packagename { text-decoration: underline; color: blue; }"16:37
rm_youthat's it :/16:37
rm_youanyways, i'm back to attempting to make everyone happy with my statusbar applet <_<16:38
Avewhat applet would that be?16:39
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X-FadeMake sure it does exactly the same as the Nokia one and more ofcourse. Then we can ask them to replace the closed one with the open one ;)16:40
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RST38hrm_you: ummm16:40
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RST38hWhich package name?16:41
rm_youX-Fade: If i had the code for the closed one's UI, i could make this SO much better :P16:42
rm_youjust need to know how to put a HildonControlbar into a GtkMenu16:42
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rm_youand have it be functional, like Nokia did in their display and volume applets16:42
Schubiduhi again16:42
rm_youwell, the volume applet did it with a HildonHVolumebar, but the same issue applies, and I'm sure if I saw the code for either I could do the other16:43
rm_youX-Fade: want to find out how they did that and just explain it to me? you don't need to show me the code16:43
X-Faderm_you: Maybe ask about that HildonControlbar on -developers?16:43
rm_youjust tell me if they used some sort of crazy long hack16:43
rm_youX-Fade: I did... no responses16:43
rm_youdidn't want to spam the mailing list tho :/16:43
X-Faderm_you: I'm not working at nokia. So I don't have accesss to the code.16:44
rm_youaww :(16:44
rm_youyou work for maemo?16:44
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X-Faderm_you: Maybe timeless can give you some insight about that function.16:44
rm_youbeen talking with him about it <_<16:44
X-Faderm_you: Yep. maemo webmaster.16:44
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RST38hrm_you: highlight with color done16:47
rm_youhrm, not the text i was thinking of, but that works16:48
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Italodanceguys the deb run file for games can works on IT?16:49
rm_youand again, the onmouseover thing is fancy, but useless on the nokia tablets, which is what 95% of your visitors are going to be using :(16:49
RST38hWhat file?16:50
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RST38hrm_you: then tablet users will just have to live with it!16:50
RST38h(I am changing this thing Nth time, so don't be surprised)16:50
rm_youwho told you to use a mouseover? :P16:51
RST38hI think YOU told me to highlight on mouseover16:51
rm_younot ever16:51
RST38hthen the previous guy :)16:51
rm_youthen the previous guy didn't think about the fact that he CAN'T MOUSE OVER with his tablet! :P rofl16:51
Italodancerm_you the deb run file for games can works on IT?16:52
RST38hwell, he will have to live with it16:52
Italodancerm_you from debain linux16:52
Anunakinman mouser over events... dont mean with touch screen16:52
RST38hBTW, anybody has a Nokia InSTALL icon with transparent bg?16:52
Anunakinyou must use a real mouse16:52
rm_youItalodance: what?16:52
RST38hNow, who was it...I think it was hrw16:53
Anunakinor just remap mouse moves to some keys16:53
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RST38hAnunakin: it was a minor complaint anyway16:53
Italodancerm_you debian .deb files can work on IT?16:53
rm_younot natively, unless you have a debian chroot16:54
rm_youor are running johnx's debian beta boot image16:54
rm_youRST38h: :P16:55
Italodancerm_you how can i convert debian .deb files from linux to maemo? with which tool? how can i make it?16:55
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rm_youItalodance: in most cases you would have to modify the source code heavily and recompile them in scratchbox16:55
rm_youit isn't a small task16:56
rm_youwith a good knowledge of the programming language, it could take weeks to do it right for one package16:56
Italodanceyeah :D16:56
rm_youthere isn't a "tool"16:56
rm_youRST38h: anyway, my point: "The typical form of MMN is represented by menus composed of unrevealing icons that are replaced with explicative text only when the mouse cursor hovers over them."16:57
rm_youit's just a usability issue16:57
rm_youi'm really not trying to give you a headache :P just friendly advice16:58
AnunakinI generate my debs ... with this steps17:00
RST38hrm_you: this does not apply17:00
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RST38hno menus composed of unrevealing icons17:00
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rm_youlinks that don't appear until you mouseover them>17:02
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Anunakin1- ./configure --prefix (OTHER THINKS)17:02
Anunakin2- make17:02
Anunakin3- make DESTDIR=/tmp/DEB17:02
Anunakin4- cd /tmp17:02
Anunakin5- mkdir DEB/DEBIAN17:02
Anunakin6- create a control file with vi DEB/DEBIAN/control17:02
Anunakin7- dpkg-deb -b DEB packname_VERSIONNUMBER_armel.deb17:02
Anunakinopps 3- is ´╗┐make DESTDIR=/tmp/DEB install17:03
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Anunakinrm_you: remove mouser over events17:03
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Anunakinthats icons must have some initial property to hidden... edit it to not hidden17:04
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RST38hAnunakin: What are you talking about?17:07
rm_youAnunakin: yeah... what?17:07
* rm_you is very confused17:07
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AnunakinI dont know too17:21
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lardmanbmidgley: ping17:24
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bmidgleylardman hi17:27
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lardmanbmidgley: sorry to disappoint with the lack of asm ;)17:29
lardmanbmidgley: The "optimising" compiler is supposed to do some of that at least, depending on the code structure17:30
bmidgleylardman: advertise the fact so you can get people interested in helping17:30
bmidgleylardman: some students at the university by indt wanted to work on it17:30
lardmanbmidgley: I've been trying to get people to help for about a year now, but not much response (for Tremor that was)17:31
lardmananyway, I'm glad it works17:31
summatusmentishelp with what?17:31
lardmandsp tremor decoder17:31
lardmanbmidgley: Anyway, can you explain how the current ALSA pathway works?17:32
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lardmanbmidgley: All built into the Bluez lib? Does "sbcenc" get spun off in its own thread?17:32
DekaYay Google Gears17:33
bmidgleythere's an audio service daemon that does early negotiation17:33
DekaYay Offline Gcal17:33
bmidgleythen the alsa plugin gets a file descriptor that writes directly to the set17:33
bmidgleythen it's all running in the same process as the alsa client17:34
bmidgleythe alsa plugin has linked in the sbc codec directly17:35
bmidgleyit's all quite a hack really.17:35
lardmanI'm just wandering how closely linked the sbc.c functions are to the stuff in Bluez, how much I'll have to replace17:35
bmidgleylardman the cleanest thing is to make the gstreamer sbc plugin detect and prefer the dsp over the soft codec17:36
bmidgleyI believe when maemo has real a2dp support, it will be via a gstreamer plugin17:36
lardmanI wasn't so worried about GStreamer17:36
bmidgleylardman I can understand wanting to plug it into the way people use a2dp now17:37
bmidgleyie alsa17:37
lardmanI wasn't meaning I wouldn't do a Gstreamer one, just that it seems cleaner that way so I wasn't so concerned that it would be difficult17:37
lardmanand yes, I do really need to replace what people are using now17:38
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lardmanotherwise who knows how long it will be before it's being used17:38
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bmidgleylardman to answer your original question, the alsa plugin is linked to sbc codec17:39
bmidgleybut only makes a few calls to the library so it shouldn't be hard to isolate17:39
lardmangreat, that's what I was hoping to hear :)17:40
bmidgleyhmm, maybe it also looks into the data structures a bit... watch for that17:40
lardmani presume there is already a GStreamer sbc sink?17:40
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bmidgleyit's been a while since I used the gst plugin, but it was using too much cpu17:41
bmidgleywhen I tried it on a gumstix17:41
bmidgleythat needs to be fixed17:41
lardmanlooking into the structures shouldn't be a major pain, except that the data will probably only be made avaialble when the dsp asks for or gives data17:41
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lardmanWas it the encoder itself that was using the cpu?17:41
johnxbmidgley, hmm...random question: did you ever try hildon on gumstix?17:41
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bmidgleyjohnx no... just got an lcd and using default gpe env17:42
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bmidgleylardman I think it was something done wrong in the gst part that was bleeding cpu17:42
bmidgleyjohnx sadly the lcd is not very high res... sad compared to maemo17:43
hrwbmidgley: that 480x272 one?17:43
johnxwhat res? VGA or less?17:43
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bmidgleyyeah, it's 480x27217:44
johnxyeah, I could see how hildon-desktop / hildonized apps might not work too well on that...17:44
bmidgleyit doesn't look bad, but I've been spoiled17:45
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rm_youjohnx: ah you're back :P17:49
johnx'fraid so17:49
johnxI think I'm getting closer to the problem at least :/17:55
rm_youI think I'm getting closer to my bed.17:55
johnxme too17:55
rm_youYep, I'm very close now.17:55
rm_youOk, there I am, at my bed. night.17:56
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johnx'night rm_you :D17:56
* qwerty12 dies of excitement17:56
qwerty12night :p17:56
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RST38hqwerty: Try the aggregator again17:58
qwerty12will do17:58
* RST38h has been adjusting it17:58
qwerty12It still messes up for me when I choose OS200817:59
RST38hdo not choose platform17:59
RST38hkeep that box empty17:59
qwerty12Will do but it is an annoyance imho.17:59
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RST38hI know - the box is there but it has not been implemented yet18:00
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AStormnow that I can't get wifi up and running with new kernels, I'll try a backport of CFS to 2.6.21 - should be simple18:23
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AStormRST38h: hm?18:24
hrwAStorm: when umac.ko stops working? 2.6.22 or later?18:24
AStormhrw: not sure, it crashes with null deref with 2.6.26-rcx-omap18:24
AStormdoesn't take the whole kernel down though18:24
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AStormI can't test older kernels too much, some just aren't working18:25
AStormI'll check if 2.6.23 runs18:25
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AStormas that's where the wifi got a lot of work18:25
AStormif that works, we're mostly fine18:25
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AStormmight be some kobject work that broke umac.o18:27
AStormactually, Nokia could get us a newer kernel in long-term agenda18:30
AStormor at least umac.ko per kernel release :-)18:30
AStormThat would solve most of the problems18:30
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AStormI suspect umac.ko will only need a recompile18:31
MangoFusion_ko ko!18:32
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* MangoFusion_ promptly remembers what AStorm is really talking about18:33
n800n_are there any new calendars/organizers other than GPE?18:34
* RST38h does not know what AStorm is talking about18:34
AStormRST38h: Nokia has access to the closed driver18:34
RST38hBut it sounds damn complicated!18:34
RST38hYes, the wifi one18:34
AStormso they could just build us a driver for each kernel release18:34
AStormjust a pull of linux-2.6-omap18:34
RST38hbut something is telling me they will not bother18:35
AStormif it builds w/o patches, it would be good enough18:35
AStormnot that it's a lot of bother18:36
RST38hstill, why would they...18:36
AStormthe answer is... why not? It will help the development of the kernel for Maemo18:36
RST38hwell, try running it buy Quim18:36
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infobotRST38h meant: well, try running it by Quim18:38
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AStormwell, KotCzarny, what do you think about the idea?18:38
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n800n_does GPE crash hildon randomly for anyone?18:51
johnxwhat does it crash?18:52
n800n_well my statusbar went back to the default icos18:52
n800n_and the left side bar got blank for a little while then went to default icons again18:53
n800n_rebooting fixed it, just wondering if i should trust the app for reminders and such18:53
johnxI dunno. I let my cellphone do alarms...18:54
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* RST38h does not use schedules or alarms18:55
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n800n_just trying something new18:56
* johnx sometimes doesn't automatically wake up for work :P18:56
tank-mani have a digital watch with a single alarm. K.I.S.S to you :)18:56
johnxI don't trust my alarm clock or my cell phone enough, thus I vote: redundancy18:57
n800n_my gf loves the waves/seagulls sounds, i think it's tone 318:57
johnxahaha...I used that once on vacation18:57
n800n_gets old tho doesn't it18:57
* RST38h uses traffic jam sound for his morning alarm18:57
johnxscared the crap out of gave me a weird dream where I was sleeping on the beach18:57
n800n_i feel like shooting that seagull that comes in about 15 seconds in18:58
RST38hNo need for any extra equipment too18:58
n800n_sleeping on the beach is fun18:58
n800n_as long as you leave your wallet at the hotel18:58
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johnxI guess it depends on the beach :P18:59
tank-mani bet there are a lot of homeless people that would disagree18:59
hrwhave a nice weekend guys18:59
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johnx'later hrw18:59
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n800n_does the background image on the desktop take up more memory if it's a large image? or does it just load once on startup?19:00
tank-mani would think the image would be resized19:01
inzn800n, at least the desktop used to create a scaled version of it when you set the background19:01
n800n_so it resizes it once and that's it19:02
bstockanyone know which flags i should use to replace the kernel image on my 810 without reformating the device?19:04
bstockor should i just reformat it19:04
AStormbstock: in linux flasher:19:04
AStorm--flash-only kernel -k <path-to-kernel-zImage> -f19:04
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bstockwait if i have a .bin file from the website, what kind of image is that19:08
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johnxfiasco image19:09
bstockalright, in that case i prob can't just reflash the kernel19:09
johnxyou can19:09
bstockoh ok19:09
johnxlet me find the arg19:09
amengHi, does n810 lcd controler support YUV?19:10
johnxin that case: flasher --flash-only kernel -F foo.bin19:10
bstockoh ok, makes sense19:10
bstockso which arguments would i use if i wanted to do a full fresh start? -c for 'Cold flash' ?19:12
johnxnope, that's something else19:13
johnxjust do flasher -f -F foo.bin -R19:13
bstockok. so which would i use? i'm saving all this in txt file for later19:13
bstockok cool19:13
johnxthe -R might not be needed19:13
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johnxfor a complete restore, it's the same as upgrading19:13
johnxso it's on the wiki19:14
bstocknow i just gotta find the funky usb cable for the thing. wish they had stuck with the regular mini port19:14
bstockhave like 5 cables with the regular port, always gotta look for the special one when flashing19:15
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bstockand it might be at home :(19:15
johnxwell, that's what happens with miniaturization19:15
bstockthough the 810 isn't that much smaller then 770, but they added features19:16
johnxit's noticeably smaller than the n800 and has a sliding keyboard and gps19:16
johnxthat's kind of impressive19:16
bstocki haven't messed with the 800, went from 770 to 81019:16
johnxzaurus -> n800 here19:17
johnxwaiting for something based on the omap319:17
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bstockyeah every pda i ever had before was all crap, especially when running windows crap, would crash daily19:17
bstockeven with versions of linux for some of them still wasn't that good until 77019:18
johnxI liked my visor prism but it died on me...19:18
bstocknever heard of that one19:18
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johnxa palm os device, circa 2002 or so19:18
glasspalm bought visor no?19:21
johnxvisor did the treo first :)19:21
glassand palm is still stuck on that state19:22's a little sad19:22
glasspalm engineers must live in a cave or something19:22
johnxactually palm and ms are really embarassing themselves in the handheld/phone market19:22
glassfoleo was a joke19:22
johnxfoleo looked interesting, but had the misfortune of being released in 2007, not 200219:23
glassexactly them living in a cave19:23
johnxwould have been a nice challenger for the psion netbook or ibm z50 or somesuch19:23
glassannouncing something like the foleo like that19:23
glassit would've been nice too if it could have hit a price range of 100$ or so19:24
glassbut no way19:24
johnxI wonder what the engineers are *actually doing* there19:24
johnxcause, they're not really making much progress in hardware or software19:25
glassjust waiting for the management to ditch the os they're building, again19:25
johnxand spin it off into a competing company :D19:25
lardmanbmidgley: You still about?19:26
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lardmanbmidgley: Anyway, I've looked at the rest of the Bluez code (that contains "sbc") and it looks like the DSP code should be able to drop in19:29
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johnxlardman, that is great news :D19:29
lardmanbmidgley: I'll need to change the point at which I've encapsulated the code on the DSP, so it just handles sbc_encode() rather than the stuff above that19:30
lardmanjohnx: Yeah, looks promising19:30
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lardmanWhy would one want to parse data, e.g. sbc_parse()?19:32
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napsy_Hello. I have a gtk+ application and I want to know if I have to port this app to maemo in order to use it on nokia?19:39
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johnxyou don't have to "port" it per se, but if you hildonize it, it will look nicer, and fit in better19:40
GeneralAntillesdneary, ping.19:40
dnearyGeneralAntilles: Pong19:41
johnxwow, low latency O_o19:41
napsy_johnx, I just want to run the program, look isn't important19:41
GeneralAntillesdneary, I see there's a bunch of new ex-midgard articles on the wiki.19:41
GeneralAntillesWhat's the plan?19:41
johnxnapsy_, then, all you should need to do is recompile for ARM19:42
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dnearyI don't think there are a bunch of them19:42
napsy_ok tnx19:42
dnearyI just added them all to a category19:42
GeneralAntillesOK, 31. :P19:42
dnearyThey were already there19:42
GeneralAntillesWere they?19:42
GeneralAntillesI guess I missed that19:42
GeneralAntillesAnyway, should I start moving and renaming these things to bring them up to speed?19:43
dnearyThe plan is to indent the pages that are there in Categorization, migrate the others, and start reviewing the content :)19:43
dnearyYes please!19:43
dnearyEither or19:43
dnearyI'll tell you what - I'll leave you to rename & categorise, and I'll migrate19:43
GeneralAntillesWorks for me.19:43
kulvenapsy_: when you want more:
kulvenapsy_: although I'm not sure how good that doc is..19:44
napsy_ok tnx19:44
GeneralAntillesdneary, The "How To <blah>" naming scheme is redundant and ugly. Does, say, "How to Compile the Kernel" to "Compiling the kernel" work for you?19:45
dnearyAbsolutely agree19:46
dnearyAlso cut down most of the page titles19:46
dneary"USB network with windows" should just be "USB networking", and be merged with "USB network for Linux and Mac" if it exists19:47
GeneralAntillesLet's see, I need . . . 3 templates. Ex-midgard, Expansion request and out-of-date.19:48
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dnearyGeneralAntilles: Some of those pages should be deleted19:51
dnearyFor example "How to use a boot menu with the Nokia 770" is outdated19:52
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dnearyAnd it starts: "There's an updated and simplified version of this page at How to Boot the root filesystem from MMC"19:52
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dnearyI don't know if Out of date is really necessary - better to just delete the page20:05
dnearyOr rename it20:05
dnearyand mark it as "Needs review"20:06
GeneralAntillesMaybe, but the template may prove useful in the future.20:06
dneary(or whatever)20:06
GeneralAntillesI need to figure out how to use those tags to generate categories, too.20:06
dnearyExample: might be useful20:06
dnearybut it needs to have "of Nokia 770" removed from the title, and be updated/merged20:06
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lcukdneary, +1 vote to delete20:10
dnearydeletiong the "modify root image" page?20:11
lcukas you said when explaining all this wiki stuff, the original will remain, merge importantant information20:11
lcuksorry, on the previous one..20:11
lardmanAs long as a copy remains, yes delete it as it's no longer even vaguely up to date - that was from the days of a ro root fs20:11
lcukeven everyone btw20:12
GeneralAntillesAnybody remember how to increase the type size for something in mediawiki?20:13
lcukfffffs evening even20:13
lcukmove closer to your screen?20:13
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GeneralAntillesBugzilla was busy again last night . . . I hate sorting through pages of updated bugs.20:15
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lardmanGeneralAntilles: Your campaigning is too successful hey? ;)20:15
GeneralAntillesNah, it's mostly freaking andre___. :P20:16
lcukGeneralAntilles, hire a few interns20:16
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andre___GeneralAntilles, well... we have to start somewhere :-D20:22
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GeneralAntillesrm_you, ping, you awake yet? :P20:34
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I finally was able to get in touch with rm ;)20:47
GeneralAntillesYeah, I saw it in the logs.20:47
GeneralAntillesTook long enough. :D20:47
X-FadeHeh :)20:47
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n800nanyone ever tried Yoper?20:56
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n800nlooking for a very slim linux distro fit for an old laptop20:59
n800ncould debian work?21:02
n800ni think it's like 32 mb ram21:02
n800nlemme see21:02
Ave32 is quite low21:02
lcukwhat are you wanting to do with it21:02
lcukie text based firewall/hacking duties, or full gui21:03
penguinbaitI have redhat running on 133 pentium, with 32mb ram21:03
lcukn800n, what OS is currently on it21:03
Zeibergive it a germanmaemo/nokia tablet - community..?^^21:03
penguinbaitits linux, run any version you want21:03
n800nit hasn't been used in a long time, it had win 98 by the sticker21:07
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n800ni'm getting in the bios now21:07
n800n32 mb, 4Gb21:08
n800ncan't see the cpu in here :/21:08
Aveboot memtest86+ in it21:09
Aveyou'll see the cpu, afaicr21:09
lcukmemtest68k more likely :P ;)21:09
n800n    *  Compaq Presario 1244 Internet PC21:10
n800n    * CPU: AMD K6-2 366Mhz. processor21:10
n800n    * RAM: 96MB PC66 SDRAM21:10
n800n      (32MB native, 64MB added via PC66 SO-DIMM)21:10
n800n    * Video: NeoMagic MagicGraph128XD 2MB graphics chipset21:10
n800n    * Display: 12.1" LCD Display21:10
n800n    * Sound: ES1869 Plug and Play AudioDrive (WDM)21:10
n800n      w/ JBL-Pro stereo speakers21:10
n800n    * Modem: Compaq Presario 56K-DF (LT Winmodem)21:10
n800n    * 4.5GB UDMA hard-disk, 24x CD-ROM, standard 3.5" floppy21:10
n800nnot bad...21:10
Avehmm some early amd cpu's were especially buggy things21:10
Aveesp with linux you got sig11's left and right21:10
Aveyou're safe!21:11
n800nhey thanks21:11
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amen1Dose n810's framebuffer support YUV?21:12
lcukyes natively, but its some odd none contigious planes21:15
Avesurely it couldnt display video without yuv21:16
n800ni don't really know what i could use it for, this laptop :/21:16
Avea car debug terminal?21:17
lcukave, it could, but it would need rgb conversion21:17
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Aveahha, sure, which is slower than hell21:17
lcukn800n, does it still have windows on21:17
Aveand there is no cpu to spare21:17
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lcukamen1, what you need it for21:21
GeneralAntillesAnybody have any use for this?
GeneralAntillesIt's pretty much entirely out of date21:21
GeneralAntillesand grabbing one of the other guides around to replace it seems like a better plan than trying to update that.21:21
lcukas long as the other guides have been verified as working as stable then i agree21:22
penguinbaitit looks great, full of wonderful info, what the problem?21:22
lcukie those who use these things agree on the forum its a clean solution :)21:22
GeneralAntillesIt's old and gross, penguinbait.21:23
GeneralAntillesI'd rather have milhouse's guide up there or something.21:23
lcukpenguinbait, its for the 770 and it itself says its out of date21:23
penguinbaitIts full of good info, I guess I just dont see the reason to delete it21:24
penguinbaitlet it live forever :)21:24
GeneralAntillespenguinbait, do you want to bring it up to date?21:24
GeneralAntillesIt can live forever in the midgard wiki.21:24
penguinbaitI dont use wiki's21:24
GeneralAntillesThe mediawiki isn't for archiving old info.21:24
GeneralAntillesUgh, this stuff is so old and gross.21:25
lcukpenguinbait, the information isnt being deleted, this is removing the cruft for a nice new clean wiki21:26
penguinbaitmaybe we can go around ITT and delete posts that are no longer relavent21:26
GeneralAntillespenguinbait, <_<21:26
lcuksudo apt-get remove GeneralAntilles21:26
penguinbaitif its a new wiki, its not in there anyway?21:26
GeneralAntillespenguinbait, nevermind.21:27
lcuka migration of the old wiki is in progress extracting the good stuff :)21:27
penguinbaitit would be better to me to mark them as deprecated, and keep them21:27
penguinbaitjust my two cents21:27
GeneralAntillesThey're archived in the old wiki.21:27
lcukpenguinbait, ill say again, they are not being deleted, but its not considered important and fresh and clean and new and stuff, it has no place in the hip new club but will remain in mo's tavern21:28
amen1lcuk: for play video21:32
lcukwow - you mean i can play video on my 810?21:32
GeneralAntillesOK, I've moved the useful stuff, the rest of the stuff in H and M should either be deleted, merged or moved.21:33
GeneralAntillesI'll leave those decisions up to somebody else.21:33
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lcuka lot of work has gone into (and is still ongoing) to optimise the video experience on n8x0, i think now the majority of actual rendering issues have been ironed out, but focus needs turning to codecs21:34
amen1lcuk:do you konw how can i use the yuv framebuffer?21:34
lcukfor movies?21:34
lcukok, goto your terminal and type mplayer ;)21:35
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lcukare you wanting to develop your own application to utilise the system or do you just want to watch though21:36
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amen1ok , I want to develop a gstreamer based player on directfb21:37
amen1do you have any ideas?21:40
lcukyou may be easier using mplayer in client/hosted mode but you could start here
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lcukmplayer is in active development and its used as the workhorse in a number of existing media players21:41
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derfI mean, the same thing can be said of gstreamer.21:44
lcukcool, i didnt know21:45
lcukderf, which apps use it?21:46
derfWell, Nokia's media player, for one.21:46
derfI believe Songbird, also.21:47
derfThere's probably more.21:47
lcukahhh i did wonder how the internal worked21:47
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lcukthought it was nokia proprietary system.  mind you never thought to ask..21:47
derfCommercial entities that have to deal with the US patent system tend to like gstreamer because it actually attempts to address the patent issue properly.21:49
derfI.e., you can buy and download properly licensed codecs for the proprietary bits.21:49
derfWhich makes it fairly unique among Linux multimedia frameworks.21:49
lcukta derf :) informative21:50
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Blasturany news on when Diablo will release?21:50
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GeneralAntillesBlastur, when it's ready.21:52
GeneralAntillesThe window for that is sometime between 2 weeks and 2 months from now.21:52
Blasturdo you know if it will include better GPS TTF?21:58
GeneralAntillesYes, there's a-gps stuff in there.21:58
Blasturso this AGPS support, it requires internet connectivity to be efficient?21:59
GeneralAntillesIt's got a map where you can tap your current location if you don't have internet.22:00
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Blasturso give it a little push in the right direction ? :)22:01
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GeneralAntillesHas anybody done any really intense testing of the GPS acquisition time with just the world map assistance?22:10
RST38hHey, GA, check out the package aggregator22:11
penguinbaitis that like akregator?22:12
GeneralAntillesYeah, it's looking better.22:13
GeneralAntillesBut the expanding and collapsing could use some work. ;)22:13
gnuSnobgotta debian question the folks in #debian couldn't answer.. if I run "apt-cache search kernel-source" I only get a list of odd ball packages relating to drivers, not the actual kernel source.  Has the package name changed?22:14
GeneralAntillesRST38h, first step would be to add an arrow to indicate the expanded/collapsed state.22:15
penguinbaitwhat is aggregator, RSS reader?22:15
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GeneralAntillesSecond step is to keep the elements from moving around when you expand and collapse22:15
GeneralAntillesThe .deb link is perfect, though.22:15
penguinbaiti c22:16
RST38hGA: elements will move around anyway22:16
GeneralAntillesThe title and version number shouldn't move.22:16
RST38hAs to the arrow, yea, it should not be a problem22:16
RST38hthey do?22:16
GeneralAntillesBy a couple of px down and to the right over here.22:16
GeneralAntillesProbably from the border.22:17
RST38hOh, this is because of the border22:17
RST38hI thought there was a real problem22:17
lcddgnuSnob: it's 'linux-source' and 'linux-tree' now22:17
GeneralAntillesI'd dump the border and just use the color and arrow to indicate collapse/expanded.22:17
RST38hI like border better22:18
gnuSnobah, thanks lcdd!22:18
RST38hActually, I do not think arrow would be a good idea22:18
RST38hThere may be a LOT of entries shown and with each entry displaying an arrow it will look weird and disorienting22:18
RST38hBorder just indicates attention22:18
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, I'd use the Digg comment system as a general guideline.22:19
RST38hSpeaking of.... GA, do you have a Nokia Install icon with transparent bg?22:19
GeneralAntillesNo, not that I know of, RST38h.22:19
skiburAnybody know how many characters in total including unlockeables they are in Super Smash Brawl?22:19
RST38hLet me know if you find one22:19
GeneralAntillesI could make one if it comes down to it.22:19
GeneralAntillesBut I'll keep my eyes open.22:20
RST38hBecause the one you have given before I can't use - it has opaque background22:20
GeneralAntillesMaybe ping X-Fade about it.22:20
GeneralAntillesAlso, each listing needs to be shorter.22:20
GeneralAntillesThe rows are too high.22:20
RST38hwell, they are defined by the icon and the size cell22:20
GeneralAntillesIt's pushed out by the size cell over here.22:21
GeneralAntillesMaybe do them side-by-side instead of on top of eachother?22:21
* RST38h looked at digg. If GA means the little arrow to the left of comments count, it can't be transplanted into MPA - there are no comments to fold out22:21
RST38hGA: this way you will lose screen width and it is more important than height22:22
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RST38hI would rather lose height22:22
GeneralAntillesPut the little arrow to the left of the package title22:22
GeneralAntillesJust make it bigger.22:22
GeneralAntillesThe arrow usage has nothing to do with comments. ;)22:22
linux8mybabythats what she said22:23
RST38hno, there should be an element to attach it to22:23
RST38hif not comment then somethign else22:23
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GeneralAntillesThink something along these lines:
RST38hcentered - can't attach arrows - won't be neat22:24
GeneralAntillesExcept replace the category with the package.22:24
RST38happ name - yea, maybe22:24
GeneralAntillesYou can change the position of the arrow with relative positioning.22:24
RST38hall right, let me try shrinking those rows22:25
RST38hI think I can do it, a little bit22:25
RST38hGA: Done. I do not think I can go thinner than this without reducing font size22:27
GeneralAntillesYeah, that looks fine.22:29
RST38hprobably need to suck and use app icons22:29
RST38hAny PERL function that will convert from MIME into binary data?22:29
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GeneralAntillesApplication icons would be good.22:30
GeneralAntillesHow big are the ones in the repos?22:30
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RST38happle fanboys are shitting their pants while waiting for the 3g iphone22:38
RST38his there some kind of sabbath coming for them?22:39
lardmanTalking about useful stuff, all of DSP Programming is up to date, just needs more adding to it22:40
lardmanso it can migrate across, etc.22:40
* lardman has just read backlog22:41
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gnuSnobAT&T is about to be dwarfed by vz too... vz buys alltel22:46
lcuki think quite a few companies are wondering whats coming as well22:46
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RST38hlcuk: THE END IS COMING23:00
RST38hAs in "$10 per gallon of gas or gallon of milk"23:00
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NaviMilk-powered cars23:08
RST38hmore like pedal-powered...23:09
NaviCars powered by my own self-esteem23:09
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andre___hmm, i shouldn't read "milk-powdered cars" at first sight (with sugar on top, please)23:19
lcuknavi, milk powered cars wont work here, the missus is already pissed off at me for drinking all the milk23:20
GeneralAntillesHi, Jaffa.23:20
GeneralAntillesMmm . . . milk.23:21
* GeneralAntilles needs more milk.23:21
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lcukshe complained because i drank 4 out of 6 pints23:21
lcukI LEFT HER SOME FFS (shes been on at me all day about this)23:21
Jaffatsk, that still leaes 2 :-)23:21
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JaffaBah, the 'v' key on my father-in-law's laptop is crap.23:22
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lcukgah always annoying23:22
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lcukright, i have a movie to watch and code to write, back later23:24
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