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| lopz | re | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
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| Maximander | ok, so I've done everything on the maemo install instructions... now I want to try to build my application. | 00:06 |
| Maximander | where do I start? | 00:06 |
| johnx | you're coding an app from scratch? | 00:07 |
| johnx | if so, the maemo hildon tutorial would be a good place to start | 00:08 |
| Maximander | I have an app, currently running on x86, and I want to cross compile it for my n800 | 00:08 |
| johnx | set target to ARM and compile like the same way as on x86 | 00:09 |
| Maximander | errr, inside sb2? | 00:09 |
| johnx | yes | 00:09 |
| Maximander | so just sb2, ./configure && make ? | 00:09 |
| johnx | sb2 ./configure && sb2 make | 00:10 |
| johnx | should do it | 00:10 |
| johnx | most of my experience is with sb1 | 00:10 |
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| Maximander | huh, that was simple. thanks! | 00:13 |
| johnx | worked nicely? | 00:13 |
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| Maximander | still compiling... | 00:14 |
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| summatusmentis | sb2 is different then OE, right? | 00:18 |
| summatusmentis | it's an emulator for maemo? | 00:19 |
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| onion | sigh, what now.. | 00:20 |
| onion | tablet won't boot | 00:20 |
| onion | taking out the extra flash card made it boot up | 00:23 |
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| * Jaffa yawns. | 00:31 | |
| summatusmentis | does anyone know where I can get libxml2juuiiii ? | 00:31 |
| ||cw | that's a lot of i's | 00:31 |
| summatusmentis | yes, it is, which makes me wonder if that's not actually what it's called | 00:32 |
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| texel | Gah. | 00:32 |
| * texel stabs the modest deb | 00:32 | |
| texel | It shouldn't install the menu item with the caption "E-mail" | 00:33 |
| texel | That's horrible. | 00:33 |
| summatusmentis | is modest the email client built into chinook? | 00:33 |
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| texel | No. | 00:33 |
| summatusmentis | does it work better? | 00:33 |
| Jaffa | summatusmentis: it is the one in diablo, though | 00:33 |
| texel | Chinook uses osso-email | 00:33 |
| texel | Ahh. Well, that explains it, then. | 00:33 |
| texel | Still. You'd think they'd have a different branch for the Diablo version. | 00:34 |
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| summatusmentis | Jaffa: ah, ok | 00:35 |
| summatusmentis | there's no way to change what a package depends on is there? I'm worried there's a typo in the list dependencies, hence throwing a dependency that doesn't exist | 00:35 |
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| Jaffa | texel: out of all the things "I think they'd have", proper branch/merge policies and/or conditional defines aren't top of the list. :( | 00:36 |
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| Jaffa | summatusmentis: sure, it's possible - what's the package? | 00:37 |
| summatusmentis | python-pygtksourceview depends on libmxl2juuiiii, which I can't find anywhere | 00:38 |
| summatusmentis | and pygtkeditor depends on python-pygtksourceview | 00:38 |
| * texel shrugs | 00:39 | |
| texel | On one hand, I can understand the want to write software for fun and happiness, and why they'd not have said things. But on the other, it makes me a little concerned about the future maintenance of the code. | 00:40 |
| * texel shrugs again | 00:40 | |
| summatusmentis | Jaffa: http://www.google.com/search?q=libxml2juuiiii&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a for instance | 00:40 |
| Jaffa | summatusmentis: checked gronmayer? email the author? fixing it yourself would involve extracted the deb, changing debian/control then re-bundling it. | 00:41 |
| summatusmentis | I'm not sure who the author is, I wasn't sure if there was an easier way to do it | 00:42 |
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| Jaffa | Should say the maintainer in the package | 00:44 |
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| lardman | does tcpdump exist/work? | 00:45 |
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| summatusmentis | Jaffa: emailed the maintainer, we'll see what he says | 00:51 |
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| lardman | night chaps | 00:59 |
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| * Jaffa beds after some wiki-tweakery | 01:36 | |
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| GAN8001 | Jaffa, hopeful ping. | 02:27 |
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| dick-richardson | I have no tablet :( | 02:40 |
| dick-richardson | Nokia doesn't have an advanced RMA type set up | 02:41 |
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| GAN8001 | What'd you do to it? | 02:45 |
| GAN8001 | Anybody else having any success with softpoweroff in Diablo? | 02:46 |
| dick-richardson | the touchscreen was going flakey | 02:48 |
| dick-richardson | 1 week or so w/o my only mobile computer | 02:48 |
| GAN8001 | Ouch | 02:51 |
| GAN8001 | Touchscreens are the achilles heel of the N8x0s | 02:51 |
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| dick-richardson | really is...the capacitive touchscreen used on the ipod touch appears more reliable | 02:51 |
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| Dekaritae | Anyone have a SIP account, or Google Talk with a microphone? | 02:53 |
| GAN8001 | Gizmo with rtcomm. | 02:54 |
| GAN8001 | I usually just use the speakerphone, though. | 02:55 |
| GAN8001 | dick-richardson, meh, can't use a stylus | 02:55 |
| Dekaritae | I want to test out the camera, but GTalk doesn't support it | 02:55 |
| GAN8001 | It's not really an issue of the touchscreen technology, but an issue of Nokia not shipping shitty touchscreens. | 02:55 |
| GAN8001 | GTalk supports it fine. | 02:55 |
| GAN8001 | Tablet-to-tablet | 02:55 |
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| GAN8001 | Use Gizmo for Tablet-to-PC | 02:55 |
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| Dekaritae | Ahh | 03:00 |
| Dekaritae | She has an iBook | 03:00 |
| Dekaritae | Adium or something | 03:00 |
| GAN8001 | Yeah, not gonna happen. | 03:00 |
| GAN8001 | Gizmo 4 beta isn't out for OS X yet. | 03:01 |
| Dekaritae | The voice chat works decently, though | 03:01 |
| GAN8001 | Yeah, that's fine | 03:02 |
| GAN8001 | Video is way behind though. | 03:02 |
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| Dekaritae | I need a good case | 03:12 |
| Dekaritae | I have a Brando leather case for my Zodiac. Need something similar for my N800. | 03:12 |
| Dekaritae | http://the-gadgeteer.com/review/brando_workshop_tapwave_zodiac_case_review | 03:13 |
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| GAN8001 | Haha, fantastic: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=187925&postcount=7 | 05:03 |
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| guenther | hmm... | 05:23 |
| guenther | watching the 3d UI interface demo | 05:24 |
| guenther | With a device that size, and the impressive 3D rendering... | 05:24 |
| guenther | Why do graphics cards need a cooler, fan, and extra power? | 05:25 |
| patoh | necause they are powerhungry bastards | 05:27 |
| guenther | right... | 05:27 |
| guenther | I was wondering about the off-topic-ish tegra demos... | 05:28 |
| derf | The latest nVidia boards have as many as 128 processors on them. | 05:28 |
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| guenther | Which obviously is as good as my laptop. | 05:28 |
| guenther | with better graphics... | 05:28 |
| * guenther scrathes his head | 05:28 | |
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| guenther | oh, well, time to call it a night... | 05:46 |
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| summatusmentis | GAN8001: whe you ordered that screen protector, how long did it take to get to your house? | 06:02 |
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| GAN8001 | 4 days? | 06:06 |
| GAN8001 | Don't remember | 06:06 |
| GAN8001 | Been a while | 06:06 |
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| summatusmentis | I ordered over a week ago, was charged, and then haven't heard anything | 06:07 |
| summatusmentis | not even a confirmation email | 06:07 |
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| GAN8001 | Call 'em, email 'em? | 06:20 |
| summatusmentis | I sent then an email earlier this evening | 06:21 |
| summatusmentis | but that's just bad service | 06:21 |
| Navi | wewt | 06:21 |
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| GAN8001 | Abnormal | 06:25 |
| GAN8001 | I've had a few orders with Boxwave and haven't had any toub | 06:25 |
| Navi | Mine came in within a few days | 06:25 |
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| Navi | and I picked the cheapest shipping method | 06:25 |
| summatusmentis | the only thing I can think of is maybe I typed the wrong email address, twice, like a typo, but I doubt it | 06:26 |
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| soman | Hi, where can i get libunwind for maemo platform | 07:02 |
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| lopz | night | 07:43 |
| Italodance | morning | 07:45 |
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| soman | KotCzarny: is there any pppd application for maemo | 07:46 |
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| soman | hey ,, can anyone tell me how to put the N800 into usb host mode | 07:58 |
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| Navi | you can use usbcontrol | 08:00 |
| Navi | soman, it's in the repos | 08:00 |
| soman | Navi: do i need to recompile the kernel | 08:01 |
| Navi | no | 08:01 |
| soman | where can i find that usb control | 08:02 |
| Navi | It's in the repo | 08:02 |
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| soman | ok.. if i install usbcontrol from maemo extras.. can it detect the devices | 08:04 |
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| GAN800 | soman, USB control doesn't detect anything, it just switches host and client mode in software. | 08:10 |
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| soman | pupnik: when i tried to compile wvstreams on scratchbox its giving me error.. how to get over this problem.. i think u had tried wvdial on N800.. | 08:32 |
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| RST38h | yawn | 09:34 |
| johnx | been there, done that | 09:35 |
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| RST38h | johnx | 09:37 |
| johnx | yes | 09:38 |
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| opendeep | anyone know package_dir of setup() in python | 09:41 |
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| Mikho | aargh, wasted several hours trying to write a hildon statusbar plugin by following hello-world-app-0.8 instructions and hello-world-app-0.7 source code | 09:43 |
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| Mikho | it seems a lot of things have changed between 0.7 and 0.8 | 09:43 |
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| RST38h | Mikho: there is a separate tutorial on plugins | 09:53 |
| RST38h | Give me a moment... | 09:53 |
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| RST38h | Mikho: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/writing_hildon_desktop_plug-ins_for_maemo.html | 09:54 |
| RST38h | Enjoy | 09:54 |
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| Mikho | yes, that's exactly the tutorial I was reading | 09:55 |
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| pygi | hey folks | 09:55 |
| pygi | any way to make PAP available on N810? | 09:55 |
| Mikho | and I didn't notice the example program v0.7 is totally different from 0.8 | 09:55 |
| Mikho | it seems apt-get install hello-world-app installs the 0.7 | 09:56 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:48 |
| trickie|work | morning | 10:49 |
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| johnx | now I'm officially going crazy. O_o sapwood works fine on debian armel on a qemu armv5tej and on an n800, but not on a zaurus pxa270 (armv5te) | 10:49 |
| Navi | you are crazy | 10:50 |
| johnx | it's all *exactly* the same binaries and libs | 10:50 |
| Jaffa | GAN8001: belated pong | 10:50 |
| Navi | I think he went bye bye | 10:50 |
| johnx | at this point I can't think of anything different between the machines but cache size and kernel | 10:50 |
| inz | johnx, and the pxa270 has 16bpp dolor depth? | 10:52 |
| johnx | inz, I get the same error if I have it display on the n800's x server or xephyr | 10:52 |
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| * Jaffa had a nice, formal, possibly over-engineered, bureaucratic, power-crazed brainstorm idea last night. | 10:53 | |
| Jaffa | Navi: he's a sleep-deprived lunatic, though - so I might get lucky :-) | 10:53 |
| Navi | speaking of sleep deprivation, I should go to sleep | 10:55 |
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| johnx | if anyone wants to look at the strace output and bang their head against a wall, here it is: http://pastebin.com/m20dbf44e | 11:00 |
| johnx | I will of course provide any other info I can if someone is interested | 11:01 |
| AStorm | johnx: looks like an invalid instruction | 11:05 |
| AStorm | wait | 11:05 |
| AStorm | no, you killed it with ctrl+c? | 11:06 |
| AStorm | it seems to have been waiting on something | 11:06 |
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| Italodance | ummm someone can help me with http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20603 now? | 11:06 |
| Italodance | read my reply | 11:06 |
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| johnx | AStorm, it just sits there displaying a button until killed | 11:09 |
| johnx | it's a demo from the sapwood source tarball | 11:09 |
| AStorm | isn't that correct? | 11:09 |
| AStorm | it can't load the pixmap for some reason | 11:10 |
| johnx | right, that's correct | 11:10 |
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| johnx | what's not working is the display of the pixmap | 11:10 |
| AStorm | I think the file is corrupted | 11:10 |
| johnx | it's the same file on both systems | 11:10 |
| johnx | same binaries/libs/files all the way down in fact | 11:11 |
| johnx | they're both running debian sid/armel | 11:11 |
| johnx | in fact, the copy on the n800 came *from* the zaurus | 11:11 |
| AStorm | hmmhmm | 11:11 |
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| johnx | that "write: bad address" just seems really weird to me... | 11:13 |
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| johnx | it's driving me crazy cause this seems like the last big thing keeping me from getting maemo apps running nicely on a zaurus | 11:16 |
| AStorm | it looks like it's some optimization option | 11:17 |
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| johnx | so you mean, maybe I should try a compile with -O0 ? | 11:28 |
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| hrw | morning | 11:31 |
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| Mikho | would somebody know if there are some instructions on how to launch programs to run in the status bar? | 11:51 |
| AStorm | it's a system tray | 11:52 |
| Mikho | I made a status bar plugin following the plugin tutorial, but | 11:52 |
| cy3o3 | j #asterisk | 11:52 |
| cy3o3 | sup | 11:52 |
| Mikho | it didn't explain how to get the application running if it's not running already | 11:52 |
| AStorm | what? | 11:52 |
| AStorm | just execute it? | 11:53 |
| AStorm | what are you trying to do? | 11:53 |
| Mikho | the application is a .so library | 11:53 |
| AStorm | then it's not an application | 11:54 |
| Mikho | you can't just execute it | 11:54 |
| AStorm | you made a panel plugin, not an application | 11:54 |
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| Mikho | ok, it's a plugin then | 11:54 |
| Mikho | how do I load the plugin run-time? | 11:54 |
| AStorm | then you enable it in control panel/panels | 11:54 |
| AStorm | after putting it in some dir I forgot | 11:54 |
| Mikho | I wouldn't like to involve the control panel | 11:57 |
| Mikho | Id like to allow the user to close the plugin at will, and restart it again from the app manager | 11:58 |
| AStorm | then it's not a plugin | 11:58 |
| AStorm | but an application | 11:58 |
| AStorm | write one, use tray as usual | 11:59 |
| AStorm | or you can make an app call the plugin through e.g. dbus | 11:59 |
| AStorm | and cause it to show icon | 11:59 |
| Mikho | well, I was planning on adding an application which would just restart the plugin | 12:00 |
| Mikho | ok, I'll try to call the plugin through dbus | 12:01 |
| Mikho | has somebody seen instructions for that? | 12:03 |
| AStorm | dunno | 12:03 |
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| florian | good morning | 12:39 |
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| Jaffa | lo florian | 12:51 |
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| mgedmin | interesting | 13:11 |
| lardman | morning | 13:11 |
| hrw | hi mgedmin lardman | 13:12 |
| mgedmin | there's a kernel patch that makes fn work on the apple bluetooth keyboard | 13:12 |
| mgedmin | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/162083 | 13:12 |
| Mikho | could somebody explain what 'argument1', 'argument2' and 'argument3' mean in http://maemo.org/api_refs/4.0/libosso/group__Statusbar.html And what is event_type? | 13:13 |
| Mikho | if I send an event to my applet, how do I catch it? | 13:16 |
| lardman | hi hrw | 13:18 |
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| lardman | I've released some sbc binaries (output is wrong) to encourage people to look at the code, perhaps ;) | 13:23 |
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| X-Fade_ | lardman: So, you hear a nice 'static' hissing sound? :) | 13:24 |
| lardman | X-Fade_: I've not tried listening yet actually, just looking at the hex dump :) | 13:25 |
| kevinverma | anyone knows if there is a published Schedule for next upcoming ITOS ? | 13:25 |
| kevinverma | i think one code named Diablo | 13:25 |
| kulve | lardman: well, the hex dump is better any way as the D/A convertors are not that good ;) | 13:25 |
| X-Fade_ | kevinverma: When it is done. ;) | 13:25 |
| kevinverma | X-Fade_, somewhere I can track the status and maybe get to have a qemu image to test look and feel ? | 13:26 |
| X-Fade_ | kevinverma: No, nothing has been released yet. | 13:26 |
| kulve | kevinverma: this is not an open source project.. | 13:27 |
| kevinverma | I wonder why is making of ITOS so super secrets | 13:27 |
| X-Fade_ | There is a difference between ITOS and maemo, which people don't seem to get. | 13:27 |
| kevinverma | its really not open-source ? | 13:27 |
| kevinverma | or its has too many binary blobs ? | 13:27 |
| kevinverma | or similar | 13:27 |
| X-Fade_ | Maemo is the platform. ITOS is the spin of it done by Nokia + branding + closed parts. | 13:28 |
| kulve | X-Fade_: that's probably because the Maemo is very very tighly coupled with the ITOS | 13:28 |
| kevinverma | ok | 13:28 |
| jeroin | 10 points for X-Fade_ | 13:28 |
| kulve | Maemo is a platform that doesn't work without ITOS | 13:28 |
| kevinverma | so maybe there is a Meamo (non-ITOS) spin of Diablo ? | 13:28 |
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| kulve | kevinverma: nope | 13:29 |
| X-Fade_ | kevinverma: Well, just look at what is in the repository? | 13:29 |
| X-Fade_ | You can compile all parts that are open and even install them in your chinook based image. | 13:29 |
| kevinverma | I thought maybe if I could get something to test check in a sandbox environment | 13:30 |
| kulve | X-Fade_: but does one know which will be in diablo? Which version of a some library, e.g.? | 13:30 |
| kevinverma | btw could Maemo be inspired by Fedora model or say OpenSuse for example ? | 13:31 |
| kevinverma | i.e, develop the free spin first and enterprise it later ?/ | 13:31 |
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| X-Fade_ | All open parts can be found here: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/ | 13:32 |
| kulve | is those past diablo already? | 13:32 |
| kevinverma | for example n770 hacker-edition is a great thing that ITOS I will say, but that is not much without binary-blobs even | 13:33 |
| kulve | s,is,are, | 13:33 |
| X-Fade_ | As for which exact versions. I don't know exactly. You can see commit messages mentioning diablo or fremantle. | 13:33 |
| X-Fade_ | Long before fremantle was even announced ;) | 13:33 |
| kulve | so you don't know which is coming to diablo and you thus cannot compile those versions.. | 13:34 |
| kevinverma | is Nokia helping on free-ing Maemo from binary blobs yet or even ensuring OGG kind of formats are preferred ones (even by Nokia ISV partners for ITOS)? | 13:34 |
| X-Fade_ | kulve: Well, they won't change that much. If you take everything from 3 months ago, you won't be off much? | 13:34 |
| X-Fade_ | Some minor versions perhaps, but everything should be compatible. | 13:34 |
| patoh | should be gtk-2.12 | 13:34 |
| kulve | X-Fade_: guessing is not the way to go, sorry.. | 13:35 |
| patoh | _should_, don't take my word | 13:35 |
| X-Fade_ | kulve: I'm not a developer inside nokia. But there is a lot we can ourselves. | 13:35 |
| X-Fade_ | Being a deer in the headlights looking but doing nothing is not the way forward :) | 13:35 |
| kulve | X-Fade_: there's also a lot that nokia could do, if they were interested helping in these kind of issues. But they clearly are not | 13:36 |
| Jaffa | kevinverma: see | 13:36 |
| X-Fade_ | Well, they are. And this is something you should add to the wiki as plan for the future. | 13:36 |
| Jaffa | s/see/see https://wiki.maemo.org/Increasing_transparency/ | 13:36 |
| * kevinverma opening url | 13:37 | |
| kulve | maemo maintenance branches: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/maemo-branches/ | 13:37 |
| kulve | quite fresh | 13:37 |
| kevinverma | Jaffa, "There is currently no text in this page," | 13:37 |
| X-Fade_ | kulve: File a bug? Write to -developers? | 13:38 |
| hrw | kevinverma: drop last / | 13:38 |
| kevinverma | maybe you wanted to tell me a diff URL , i guess there is one for that topic i noticed soemtime back | 13:38 |
| kevinverma | oh | 13:38 |
| Jaffa | kevinverma: make sure you don't have the trailing slash | 13:39 |
| kevinverma | Jaffa, i could open that url now | 13:40 |
| kevinverma | Jaffa, tell me if Maemo wants to be more of Debian or Ubuntu ? | 13:40 |
| X-Fade_ | kevinverma: Read the wiki page for the 100days plan and the 2010 plan. | 13:41 |
| X-Fade_ | There is a lot of comments there about that. | 13:41 |
| kulve | X-Fade_: those bugs are not reacted on, so I'm pretty sure I've my bugs reported for now.. | 13:41 |
| kulve | I seem to have a bad day today.. Lot's of complaining.. | 13:42 |
| X-Fade_ | kulve: You haven't been around last month, have you? | 13:42 |
| kevinverma | sure, i'll try to got through this, but if Maemo wants to be Ubuntu then, I have lot to doubt if they be of full free standards (in short) | 13:42 |
| kevinverma | s/got/go | 13:42 |
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| X-Fade_ | Also listen to Quims talk at LinuxTag. | 13:43 |
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| X-Fade_ | http://flors.wordpress.com/2008/06/01/maemo-linuxtag-update/ | 13:44 |
| Jaffa | kevinverma: short (contradictory versions): Nokia wants maemo to be what the community makes it; Nokia want maemo to be whatever's best for their short-term bottom line. | 13:44 |
| kevinverma | Jaffa, Is Nokia likely to make Maemo a true upstream of ITOS ? | 13:45 |
| kevinverma | and help Maemo free from binary-blobs for that matter and recognize Free standards as first preference ? | 13:45 |
| X-Fade_ | kevinverma: Nokia's goal isn't to make a completely free distribution. But it also doesn't want to prevent people from making this. | 13:46 |
| kevinverma | help advocate Free Standards as preference with its market partners too ? | 13:46 |
| X-Fade_ | So they are working on getting as much obsticals out of the way. | 13:47 |
| kevinverma | So Nokia's goal is merely to make green notes should there be a "period" in the end to this assumption ? | 13:47 |
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| X-Fade_ | kevinverma: Can you explain that question, I don't get what you are trying to ask. | 13:48 |
| kevinverma | I mean to say Nokia's goal is not to promote FOSS , but only yo earn on it | 13:48 |
| kevinverma | s/yo/to | 13:48 |
| X-Fade_ | No, please see Quim's statements on this in the talk and in the wiki. | 13:49 |
| kevinverma | i better read that first as you all insist | 13:49 |
| Jaffa | Nokia's goal is to release a Linux-based, comparatively open, consumer Internet Tablet, AIUI. But as X-Fade_ says, Quim Gil's clarified a lot of this recently. | 13:49 |
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| lcuk | Free as in playing exploding beer skittles | 13:55 |
| hrw | hi lcuk | 13:55 |
| lcuk | hi folks, im just popping in briefly (was checking mail at home) | 13:56 |
| * RST38h yawns | 13:57 | |
| RST38h | Gentlemen, you are missing the point in a typical western kid of way | 13:57 |
| mgedmin | where can I find diablo's source packages? | 13:57 |
| RST38h | s/kid/kind | 13:57 |
| lcuk | i have a slight problem... i apparantly do not have autotools installed on my device (was sure i did), but when i apt-get i get an error about debianutils being wrong, has anyone managed to get autotools running on their device (debianutils cannot be removed with removing all the osso stuff) | 13:57 |
| mgedmin | not found on repository.maemo.org | 13:57 |
| RST38h | where one side blames the other for "not advancing open source movement" (sic) | 13:58 |
| RST38h | while the other does not understand what this [small] bunch of geeks wants from it | 13:58 |
| lcuk | hrw, clutter looks....interesting... to say the least, why havent we got it on maemo properly ;) | 13:58 |
| RST38h | If both Nokia and you, punks, were Chinese, you would not have this problem at all | 13:59 |
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| RST38h | Both sides would understand that the goal is to make Nokia profit *while* advancing your petty open source movement in the process | 13:59 |
| X-Fade_ | People forget that most opensource development was done by individuals in the past whereas now most projects are mainly run by people employed by companies. | 13:59 |
| hrw | lcuk: clutter require 3d hardware drivers | 13:59 |
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| lcuk | or lower resolution display to allow the software implimentation to do things in time | 14:00 |
| mgedmin | another way of saying that is that OS developmen is and always was done by individuals, but previously they had to use their free time, and now they're getting paid for it ;-) | 14:00 |
| RST38h | Getting paid for something implies a few things, you know | 14:00 |
| RST38h | You have to do what you are paid for and you also have to abide by your legal commitments | 14:01 |
| X-Fade_ | mgedmin: yeah, but then you also don't need to complain that companies are planning the future of a project because of there interests.. | 14:01 |
| mgedmin | yes, the companies found that open source is useful for them | 14:01 |
| X-Fade_ | *their | 14:01 |
| mgedmin | right | 14:01 |
| mgedmin | I'm not complaining | 14:01 |
| RST38h | Hasn't "open source" found that companies are useful for it? =0 | 14:01 |
| mgedmin | I think | 14:01 |
| mgedmin | RST38h: both, probably | 14:02 |
| X-Fade_ | RST38h: Sure. | 14:02 |
| hrw | RST38h: indeed | 14:03 |
| * hrw do not discuss too much about Nokia related things due to work | 14:03 | |
| lcuk | ill b back later on | 14:04 |
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| Veggen | hrw: Still, to be taken as a serious "open source"-player that attracts more people, it's importing to actually *let* people participate, and know what's going on in the project. | 14:05 |
| Veggen | hrw: Imho, it looks like many people (not all) involved in the NITs hasn't understood that, yet. | 14:05 |
| X-Fade_ | Veggen: I don't think we disagree on that ;) | 14:05 |
| Veggen | hrw: ANd part of that is giving the developers freedom to participate. | 14:06 |
| Veggen | and discuss about their work in the open. | 14:06 |
| X-Fade_ | Veggen: This is actually one of the discussions that is going on in the wiki. | 14:06 |
| hrw | Veggen: you do not have to tell it for me - I am one of people waiting for opening maemo components | 14:06 |
| hrw | Veggen: http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/04/10/the-curse-of-maemo-closed-source-components/ | 14:07 |
| X-Fade_ | Veggen: I agree that the roadmap of the maemo plaform should be open. The roadmap of ITOS doesn't matter too much. | 14:07 |
| hrw | Veggen: http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/02/11/messing-with-keyboard-on-maemo-platform/ | 14:07 |
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| hrw | etc.. | 14:07 |
| X-Fade_ | ITOS should just be the 'bling' on top :) | 14:07 |
| hrw | X-Fade_: and it is now | 14:09 |
| hrw | X-Fade_: the problem is that maemo without itos is unusable due to lacking components | 14:09 |
| X-Fade_ | hrw: Well, apart from the hardware stuff, you already can? | 14:10 |
| X-Fade_ | hrw: And I'm sure there will be a solution for the hardware part one day. | 14:10 |
| kulve | no point with platform that cannot be run on any hw | 14:11 |
| hrw | X-Fade_: which hardware part? | 14:11 |
| X-Fade_ | hrw: Drivers etc.. | 14:11 |
| kulve | most of the drivers are open | 14:11 |
| X-Fade_ | kulve: Yeah but one of the problems is that you can't redistribute the blobs etc. | 14:12 |
| kulve | why? | 14:12 |
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| hrw | license | 14:12 |
| X-Fade_ | So doing your own firmware image is not possible atm. | 14:12 |
| X-Fade_ | Well for yourself it is, but redistributing it is not possible. | 14:12 |
| X-Fade_ | Unless you write some extractor script that rips it out of the official image like some linux drivers do. | 14:13 |
| hrw | I hope that nokia will put such blobs in initfs | 14:13 |
| X-Fade_ | hrw: They are looking into relicensing etc too. | 14:13 |
| hrw | X-Fade_: umac.ko will rather stay like it is | 14:14 |
| X-Fade_ | It would be really cool to spin your own firmware. | 14:14 |
| hrw | I hope that if there will be tablet not based on n800 hw then it will contain drivers + firmware blobs | 14:14 |
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| X-Fade_ | in initfs you mean? | 14:15 |
| X-Fade_ | So you can replace your rootfs without problems? | 14:15 |
| hrw | yes | 14:15 |
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| X-Fade_ | I think you really need to request that one. I haven't seen anyone talk about that yet? | 14:16 |
| hrw | X-Fade_: all current tablets use umac.ko which cannot be open so no sense in requesting it | 14:17 |
| lardman | hrw: you're happy keeping initfs? | 14:18 |
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| hrw | lardman: I can boot directly into my rootfs on each tablet. If I can put licensed files on initfs (to not have them in my rootfs) I am happy to keep it | 14:20 |
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| hrw | lardman: so during boot I can mount initfs and take files from it | 14:20 |
| lardman | hrw: fine; but wouldn't an extractor feel nicer? | 14:20 |
| lardman | feel more open, etc. and from my point of view, less messy | 14:20 |
| hrw | which extractor? | 14:21 |
| X-Fade_ | lardman: Binary blobs with good APIs are also an option. | 14:21 |
| lardman | hrw: well yes, that's a stumbling point, but doable | 14:21 |
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| lardman | X-Fade_: that would be good, but there's still the problem of how to distribute them | 14:22 |
| natok | maemo | 14:22 |
| X-Fade_ | lardman: Yeah, you would need to be able to redistribute them. | 14:22 |
| natok | maemo | 14:22 |
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| lcuk | OMG! i dropped my 810 | 14:45 |
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| johnx|zaurus | O_o | 14:45 |
| lcuk | (it survived though..) | 14:45 |
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| johnx|zaurus | well that's good at least | 14:45 |
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| lcuk | yer, i stopped breathing for a time .. | 14:46 |
| johnx|zaurus | handheld tech holds up really well these days | 14:47 |
| lcuk | it had to happen sometime though, the keyboard kinda acted like a shock absorber, it all closed up on impact | 14:47 |
| lcuk | my phones arent usually so lucky, they tend to smash apart into little fragments | 14:48 |
| johnx|zaurus | mine always hold up well...but I ted to have lower end durable phones | 14:49 |
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| lcuk | i must be taller than you ;) | 14:50 |
| johnx|zaurus | I doubt it actually | 14:51 |
| johnx|zaurus | :P | 14:51 |
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| lcuk | fair enough, i know who to ask when the bulbs need changing and i dont wanna get the ladders | 14:52 |
| johnx|zaurus | yeah, just pay my airfare :D | 14:52 |
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| lcuk | heh | 14:52 |
| * lcuk still doesnt know how to get autoconf and rest of autotools on device | 14:53 | |
| lcuk | To continue type in the phrase 'Yes, do as I say". theres no hope of me ever typing that in with the list of things removed. | 14:55 |
| lcuk | (thats to update debianutils needed for autoconf) | 14:56 |
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| johnx|zaurus | if i were you I would either give up or just unpack the debs to /usr/local | 14:57 |
| RST38h | lcuk: screw 'em | 14:57 |
| RST38h | lcuk: You want a makefile that builds stuff without autoconf? | 14:57 |
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| lcuk | yer - if i cant find a solution ill just build the makefile etc in sb later on and copy over to device, its no real hardship, just wondering why i *couldnt* get them installed | 14:59 |
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| johnx|zaurus | they probably have lots of bashisms | 15:01 |
| lcuk | its the version of debianutils thats the hangup, but i cant do anything about that cos it removes basically the whole device | 15:01 |
| johnx|zaurus | :/ | 15:01 |
| johnx|zaurus | I wonder if there's a newer version in diablo... | 15:02 |
| lcuk | there is a serious amount of packages which apt says it will remove, and the warning continue message scared me.. | 15:02 |
| johnx|zaurus | it should | 15:02 |
| johnx|zaurus | apt doesn't make threats lightly | 15:02 |
| lcuk | yer, made me think thrice | 15:02 |
| mgedmin | lcuk: so is the version of debianutils different in SDK and on the device? | 15:03 |
| mgedmin | or what's the problem, exactly? | 15:03 |
| lcuk | im not sure, i never fired up sb last night to check i had other things on mind | 15:03 |
| lcuk | im trying to install autoconf and it has a dep problem with debianutils. i cant update debianutils without serious impact | 15:04 |
| summatusmentis | johnx|zaurus: which Z are you on? C1l? | 15:04 |
| summatusmentis | C1k** | 15:04 |
| johnx|zaurus | yup | 15:05 |
| johnx|zaurus | @work | 15:05 |
| summatusmentis | doesn't the wifi card bother you? | 15:05 |
| johnx|zaurus | i7m just typing on it like a laptop | 15:06 |
| summatusmentis | oh wow... small fingers :-) | 15:06 |
| lcuk | so, you're 7 foot tall with fingers like delicate nano threads :P | 15:06 |
| johnx|zaurus | heh...totally not | 15:07 |
| johnx|zaurus | I'm just dextrous :P | 15:07 |
| johnx|zaurus | itbwould annoy the hell out of me if i had to type anything long, though | 15:08 |
| hrw | akita keyboard is not that bad | 15:09 |
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| hrw | better to type on it then on n810 one | 15:09 |
| eero | how one can send a bluetooth file transfer message from N8x0 to Phone? | 15:09 |
| johnx|zaurus | and a nice layout for games, to | 15:09 |
| hrw | eero: forget it | 15:10 |
| hrw | eero: or use 'obexftp' from command line | 15:10 |
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| X-Fade_ | hrw: Wasn't that integrated in the filemanager already? | 15:10 |
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| X-Fade_ | I send files to my phone all the time. | 15:11 |
| eero | x-fade: from file manager? | 15:11 |
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| hrw | ops - it is there | 15:11 |
| X-Fade_ | eero: Yes. | 15:11 |
| eero | good to know :) | 15:11 |
| * hrw reverts last sentences | 15:11 | |
| eero | too simple solution | 15:11 |
| X-Fade_ | And even to upnp boxes in the network. | 15:11 |
| johnx|zaurus | yeah, it's like cheating | 15:12 |
| summatusmentis | hrw: I'll agree the Cxx00 series keyboards aren't bad, but if you're carrying it around, the wifi card in your palm constantly is annoying | 15:13 |
| eero | Can I do it from shell? | 15:13 |
| summatusmentis | I liked my C3200 keyboard a lot | 15:13 |
| johnx|zaurus | summatusmentis, I've gotten used to it at this point | 15:13 |
| lcuk | back after work :) | 15:14 |
| johnx|zaurus | but, yeah, it would be nice if it wasn't there | 15:14 |
| hrw | summatusmentis: keyboard is great, device size suxx | 15:14 |
| summatusmentis | hrw: yeah, agreed. | 15:14 |
| johnx|zaurus | and CF wireless sucks too much power | 15:14 |
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| summatusmentis | mine would constantly turn on in my pocket, and then die | 15:15 |
| johnx|zaurus | really easy to hit that power button, but I still like the device overall... | 15:16 |
| * mgedmin needs to reboot | 15:16 | |
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| * johnx|zaurus grabs something to eat, loses wifi... | 15:16 | |
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| herzi | do you know this problem: | 15:32 |
| herzi | dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot | 15:32 |
| herzi | <...> | 15:32 |
| herzi | dh_shlibdeps | 15:32 |
| herzi | unable to get login information for username "herzi" at /scratchbox/devkits/maemo3-debian/lib/dpkg/controllib.pl line 58. | 15:32 |
| herzi | dh_shlibdeps: command returned error code 6400 | 15:32 |
| herzi | make: *** [binary-arch] Error 1 | 15:32 |
| jumpula | sb-conf in -e | 15:33 |
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| herzi | jumpula: thanks a lot | 15:37 |
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| jumpula | np :) | 15:37 |
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| Anunakin | yes I has a C3000 and a C3100 .... the keyboard.. is very nice | 16:00 |
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| Anunakin | but the size... is not for a pocket | 16:01 |
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| cunik | hello everyone.. has anyone met "Header missing skipping one byte" mplayer trouble? | 16:02 |
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| hrw | cunik: file is broken | 16:04 |
| cunik | hrw: seem to me like it does for every video file that works fine on computer.. let me double check this.. | 16:09 |
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| hrhr | where I can find chinook sdk image for qemu? | 16:15 |
| hrw | you mean whole system image with scratchbox etc? | 16:17 |
| hrhr | yes | 16:17 |
| hrhr | I've gentoo on my laptop and as I see installing scratchbox in to gento is not trivial | 16:18 |
| hrw | there was one for vmware iirc - check maemo.org or garage | 16:18 |
| hrhr | I've it | 16:18 |
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| hrhr | vmware image have problems with qemu. It have redused kernel | 16:23 |
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| hrhr | without some modules | 16:23 |
| cunik | hrw: so it does... I tried it on video that work fine with mplayer on computer and it does the same error (header missing..) | 16:23 |
| tank-man | isnt it just a script that installs scratchbox? | 16:24 |
| cunik | hrw: I have already tried to remove and install it again (mplayer).. but without any change.. I have also tried to remove all config file.. no way.. | 16:26 |
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| cunik | tank-man: yes, there is script, but I think its just for systems that stands on debian.. | 16:27 |
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| tank-man | i used it on a slackware setup | 16:27 |
| tank-man | no problems | 16:27 |
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| summatusmentis | will scratchbox not run under 64 bit systems? | 16:49 |
| summatusmentis | :-/ | 16:49 |
| lardman | it will if you have 32bit libs too | 16:49 |
| lardman | or at least it used to work for me | 16:49 |
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| lardman | I'm presuming the 32bit libs bit, but it certainly used to run, just the Nokia? installation script wasn't happy to play along | 16:50 |
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| lardman | lcuk: Got to do some VB work now ;) | 16:52 |
| lardman | qwerty12: afternoon | 16:52 |
| qwerty12 | afternoon lardman | 16:52 |
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| lardman | qwerty12: You couldn't get the kernel to fit in the allocated space on an N800, it doesn't fit on an N810 either | 16:52 |
| qwerty12 | It's the initfs that doesn't fit. | 16:53 |
| lardman | oh right | 16:53 |
| lardman | I didn't pay it much attention, was heading for bed | 16:53 |
| qwerty12 | I mount it up on my computer and rip out the testserver and repack the initfs. | 16:53 |
| lardman | ah, ok | 16:53 |
| lardman | is much in the initfs different? | 16:53 |
| qwerty12 | In all honesty, no. Some more modules but it just contains more tools for the wimax stuff :/ | 16:54 |
| lardman | ah ok, no great loss for me then | 16:54 |
| lardman | I saw you post something about not being able to get battery levels without a new kernel? | 16:54 |
| huats | does any of you use sb2 to develop ? i don't know why but I have lots of pbs wih it | 16:54 |
| lardman | huats: Is that the standard one? If so, yes | 16:55 |
| qwerty12 | lardman, jott told me that the new initfs has a newer bme, but the ftd wouldn't work with the chinook bme so I thought that using a diablo initfs with new bme would work. | 16:55 |
| qwerty12 | evidently not :/ | 16:55 |
| summatusmentis | lardman: oh... it might be the installation script? How do I install manually? | 16:55 |
| lardman | summatusmentis: That I can't really remember, what system are you running? | 16:56 |
| lardman | qwerty12: ah, I see | 16:56 |
| huats | lardman: not sure if it is the one | 16:57 |
| huats | ... | 16:57 |
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| qwerty12 | Initfs version 2008-22 came out y/day. I need to update my 2008-21 to it :/ | 16:57 |
| huats | that depends on how you invoke it | 16:57 |
| summatusmentis | lardman: it's 64-bit ubuntu under vmware fusion | 16:57 |
| lardman | huats: I use whatever is standard for Chinook devel | 16:57 |
| huats | lardman: ok | 16:57 |
| * qwerty12 hates sb2 | 16:58 | |
| qwerty12 | sb1 pwns | 16:58 |
| lardman | summatusmentis: I think I simply edited the script to not do the check/whetever was failing | 16:58 |
| qwerty12 | I think a setarch may work too | 16:58 |
| lardman | summatusmentis: Otherwise there's always tarballs which you can extract, or debs to install manually | 16:58 |
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| mgedmin | huats: I use sb2 | 17:01 |
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| summatusmentis | lardman: where do I get the .deb files? | 17:03 |
| fysa | what's the latest all-inclusive super-kernel these days? | 17:04 |
| lardman | summatusmentis: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/maemo_4-0_tutorial.html#settingup | 17:05 |
| lardman | then to http://www.scratchbox.org/download/scratchbox-apophis/ iirc | 17:05 |
| fysa | qwerty12, which kernel are you using these days? same as in the unionfs thread? | 17:07 |
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| summatusmentis | thanks | 17:08 |
| qwerty12 | fysa, atm the diablo kernel. But I have made a newer one in the vlc thread at itt but imho, I wouldn't recommend flashing it. I think it contains too much, haven't tested properly. | 17:08 |
| fysa | not using diablo yet, so I will stick with the unionfs thread kernel for now. thanks. | 17:09 |
| qwerty12 | cool :) | 17:09 |
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| lardman | qwerty12: I'm planning on looking at the data which apgs-ui transfers when I get home | 17:15 |
| lardman | I wonder if that would just work on a Chinook machine... hmm | 17:16 |
| qwerty12 | Nice, I assume your install went well? | 17:16 |
| lardman | yep | 17:16 |
| lardman | had to do some forcing, then ran with two desktops for a while until I did a cold reboot | 17:16 |
| qwerty12 | That 2 desktop things always happens :/ | 17:17 |
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| qwerty12 | I think it starts another hildon-desktop | 17:17 |
| lardman | yeah, at least it leaves the term open somewhere so you can see what's going on :) | 17:17 |
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| lardman | thanks for your help | 17:18 |
| qwerty12 | np, sorry I was unable to come back :/ | 17:18 |
| lardman | np, good for me to use my brain sometimes :) | 17:18 |
| qwerty12 | Heh :) | 17:19 |
| qwerty12 | ~lart cegcc & svn | 17:19 |
| * infobot hurls dozens of incontinent, insomniac, hungry kittens with tiny little razor-sharp claws and a wide variety of contagious intestinal parasites at cegcc & svn | 17:19 | |
| texel | Neh? I take it you're having problems compiling and branching code? =op | 17:20 |
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| qwerty12 | I'm trying to checkout the svn of gecc and this is some BIG BIG mofo and I don't have time finish so I shutdown the computer and it wants me to run svn cleanup. That takes ages and fails and then it won't let me carry on again checking out so I have to delete and start again. This is my 5th time now | 17:21 |
| texel | Mm. | 17:22 |
| texel | So don't lart svn -- lart Berkeley/Sleepycat DB. | 17:22 |
| mgedmin | svn kinda sucks like that, rather more often than I would prefer | 17:22 |
| texel | libdbm is... ...worse than painful. | 17:22 |
| mgedmin | texel: isn't this on the client side? | 17:22 |
| mgedmin | bdb is great for hosing up the svn repo itself, though | 17:22 |
| mgedmin | never ever use it, if you value your sanity or your data | 17:23 |
| * texel thought bdb was used on both sides | 17:23 | |
| texel | Unless, of course, you use a stable version of it. | 17:23 |
| * texel snickers | 17:23 | |
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| texel | In which case, you can kiss your data goodbye. =op | 17:23 |
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| texel | Hm. | 17:24 |
| texel | mgedmin: okay, I sit corrected. | 17:25 |
| texel | ~lart svn | 17:25 |
| * infobot grabs a large, mis-shapened log, with squirrels, and beats svn until only the nuts remain ... which the squirrels run off with | 17:25 | |
| qwerty12 | painful | 17:25 |
| texel | Everybody should use git or hg. =op | 17:25 |
| mgedmin | not bzr? | 17:26 |
| texel | j/k, of course. Right tool for the right job is more of my stand. | 17:26 |
| * mgedmin waits for the flames to rise | 17:26 | |
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| texel | I think too many people are either busy or still asleep. | 17:26 |
| mgedmin | I should be too | 17:27 |
| mgedmin | (busy) | 17:27 |
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| hrw|gone | bye | 17:31 |
| qwerty12 | bye | 17:31 |
| lardman | bye hrw|gone | 17:31 |
| texel | bye | 17:31 |
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| lopz | hi | 18:00 |
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| Italodance | hi how are ya qwerty12 :D | 18:00 |
| qwerty12 | Hi, I'm fine thanks | 18:01 |
| Italodance | friend i need ur help please read http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=188596#post188596 | 18:01 |
| qwerty12 | I dunno, I haven't set up quake 2 | 18:02 |
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| Italodance | ummm i just saw ur reply and thought u did it | 18:02 |
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| Italodance | the demo videos can play now? | 18:02 |
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| * qwerty12 clears my corrupted firefox cache and sighs in relief as the itt home page actually loads with graphics | 18:07 | |
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| GAN800 | X-Fade, http feed works fine in RSS Feed Reader. Did you ever test the https feed on you device? | 18:16 |
| X-Fade_ | GAN800: There the lazy part of me took over ;) | 18:17 |
| GAN800 | Tried with Vienna on the https feed and it worked fine. So it seems to be am ITOS issue and an entirely unrelated Safari issue (doesn't work on any rss). | 18:18 |
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| summatusmentis | Jaffa: it ended up being a typo in the package deps, he's gonna fix it when he get's his machine back | 18:19 |
| X-Fade_ | GAN800: FF3 displays the feed just fine on https. | 18:19 |
| GAN800 | Anyway, resolving the bug, may open a new one for the feed reader. | 18:19 |
| X-Fade_ | Ok. | 18:20 |
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| GAN800 | You'd figure having the same issue on two different platforma would point to the problem being elsewhere. Weird bit of coincidence. | 18:22 |
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| GAN800 | Who called the NITs MIDs on the 100Days page? <_< | 18:23 |
| qwerty12 | Get out the pitchforks! | 18:24 |
| texel | O.o | 18:24 |
| texel | MIDs? | 18:24 |
| texel | Greh. | 18:24 |
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| GAN800 | Why in the world would you say 'Nokia's MID tablet series' instead of 'Nokia's Internet Tablet series'. . . . | 18:26 |
| GAN800 | dneary! | 18:26 |
| GAN800 | oy | 18:26 |
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| summatusmentis | what does MID stand for? I've heard that term before | 18:27 |
| GAN800 | Mobile Internet Device | 18:27 |
| GAN800 | it's an Intel thing | 18:27 |
| GAN800 | It's not non-generic like UMPC | 18:27 |
| GAN800 | erm, it is non-generic. | 18:28 |
| summatusmentis | oh right | 18:28 |
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| dneary | GAN800! | 18:30 |
| texel | KAAAAHHHHHNNN!!! | 18:31 |
| GAN800 | Hehe | 18:31 |
| texel | One is happy to oblige. =o) | 18:32 |
| dneary | Me, I called them MIDs | 18:32 |
| dneary | I copied it from someone else, though | 18:32 |
| dneary | Not my fault | 18:32 |
| GAN800 | :p | 18:32 |
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| summatusmentis | :-/ I'm giving boxwave a few more hours, and then I'm calling their customer service people | 18:37 |
| GAN800 | Just call now. :P | 18:38 |
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| qwerty12 | summatusmentis, If they have a UK division call them and you can have the feeling of calling someone a few hours in the future and without the wait! :p | 18:39 |
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| GAN800 | Woo | 18:40 |
| Stskeeps | summatusmentis: ordering screen protectors? went just fine for me | 18:41 |
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| summatusmentis | GAN800: it's not 10 oclock where they are, I don't think | 18:43 |
| summatusmentis | Stskeeps: yeah, I ordered last week, haven't heard anything | 18:43 |
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| summatusmentis | was charged thursday, but I haven't even gotten a confimation email or something | 18:43 |
| Stskeeps | just send them a mail - they had pretty instant customer service for me :P | 18:43 |
| summatusmentis | I emailed them last night, haven't heard back | 18:44 |
| Stskeeps | odd | 18:44 |
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| summatusmentis | so unless they hate gmail.com | 18:44 |
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| texel | summatusmentis: you might check your spam folder. | 18:45 |
| GAN800 | Nah, they just hate you. :p | 18:45 |
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| summatusmentis | texel: but I emailed them, why would it get pushed to spam? | 18:47 |
| summatusmentis | and there's nothing in spam | 18:47 |
| texel | Mm. Point. =op | 18:47 |
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| Gnuton | Hi | 18:52 |
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| unixSnob | Any europeans around? I'd like to know what the mobile broadband situation is over there.. particularly brussels | 19:14 |
| unixSnob | My current US-based provider says my unlimited mobile broadband plan will become ~$20/min if I take it to belgium | 19:15 |
| * qwerty12 managed to get the cegcc from svn! W00T!!!!!!!!!!!!! | 19:15 | |
| texel | Congrats, qwerty12! | 19:17 |
| zap | cegcc is gcc for wince? | 19:17 |
| texel | Now comes the real test: will it compile? =o) | 19:17 |
| qwerty12 | texel, Thanks, hehe | 19:17 |
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| qwerty12 | zap, a cross compiler | 19:17 |
| zap | do you develop for wince? | 19:17 |
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| qwerty12 | texel, I'll leave it for now, got to dig out the old pocket pc :) | 19:17 |
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| qwerty12 | zap, no :/ | 19:17 |
| zap | why you would need it then :) | 19:17 |
| texel | Hehe | 19:18 |
| qwerty12 | For compiling little bits of code I have stored :) | 19:18 |
| zap | btw msvc/arm is free afaik | 19:18 |
| zap | I used to compile my stuff with it under linux | 19:18 |
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| qwerty12 | Thanks, will check it out | 19:19 |
| MangoFusion | cross compiling with gcc worked rather nicely for me. but then i realized wince development sucks ;) | 19:21 |
| zap | +1 | 19:23 |
| dneary | For those who have,n't noticed, http://wiki.maemo.org is now a Mediawiki, since yesterday. Before then it was a static page, and you had to go to index.php to get the MediaWiki | 19:27 |
| dneary | Many thanks to X-Fade for the rewrite rules :) | 19:27 |
| Navi | Woo | 19:27 |
| qwerty12 | Nice | 19:27 |
| dneary | http://wiki.maemo.org/100Days | 19:27 |
| Navi | \o/ | 19:27 |
| Navi | #maemo dance party time | 19:28 |
| Navi | /o/ | 19:28 |
| Navi | \o\ | 19:28 |
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| texel | Waahaha! Awesome. =o) | 19:38 |
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| caesargus | that's an interesting document dneary | 19:38 |
| dneary | caesargus: The 100Days one? | 19:39 |
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| caesargus | correct | 19:40 |
| dneary | If you haven't heard before: http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/maemo-brainstorm.html | 19:40 |
| caesargus | yeah I haven't heard it before ... | 19:40 |
| dneary | There's also "maemo in 2010" - a mid-term view of what's needed for maemo | 19:40 |
| mgedmin | unixSnob: roaming is expensive... | 19:41 |
| dneary | caesargus: Those 2 pages are entirely community generated (Quim is following them closely & editing them to keep them from getting hairy, and splitting some things into sub-pages) | 19:41 |
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| * qwerty12 congratulates maemo for providing libpcap0.8 but without the -dev. Brilliant job! | 19:42 | |
| GAN800 | Yeah, I'm glad Quim got involved. | 19:43 |
| Navi | zomgness | 19:44 |
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| unixSnob | mgedmin: yeah, it's certainly a show stopper. Roaming in normally free to the consumer here in the USA. Do you know if flat rate unlimited mobile broadband is available in Europe? | 19:45 |
| unixSnob | s/in/is | 19:46 |
| mgedmin | unixSnob: it's not roaming if you stay in a single country! | 19:46 |
| Maximander | heh, no, here it is. | 19:46 |
| mgedmin | at least that's the definition of "roaming" we use over here | 19:46 |
| mgedmin | I suppose when the country is big and no single carrier has coverage everywhere, you get roaming too | 19:46 |
| Maximander | It's roaming here if you leave your network (att, tmobile, etc) | 19:46 |
| * mgedmin rethinks his assumptions | 19:47 | |
| unixSnob | mgedmin: suppose I stay in belgium (couple years), what's a typical price for unlimited g3? | 19:47 |
| mgedmin | no idea, sorry | 19:47 |
| Maximander | it used to be a bigger issue when we had lots of smaller/local carriers and you could actually leave your network. Now we have 3. | 19:47 |
| mgedmin | over here in Lithuania unlimited mobile broadband (at least EDGE/GPRS, not sure about 3G) is about 40 USD/month | 19:48 |
| Maximander | anyway, maemo question: busybox's ping6 appears to have broken multicast support. Does anyone know how to install the real ping6 from iputils? | 19:48 |
| unixSnob | mgedmin: that's very reasonable.. it's $50 USD in the US | 19:48 |
| mgedmin | Maximander: I once ported the real ping to maemo | 19:48 |
| mgedmin | not sure if ping6 was part of that package | 19:48 |
| qwerty12 | Maximander, May be easier to dpkg -x the iputils to a folder and move it manually to /usr/bin | 19:48 |
| Maximander | unixSnob: I get unlimited data over EDGE from Tmo for $35/month | 19:48 |
| unixSnob | Maximander: with legit tethering? | 19:49 |
| qwerty12 | You can edit the status file entry for busybox for a horrible hack. I did it once for coreutils install. | 19:49 |
| glass | finland has unlimited 3g for about 10e/month | 19:49 |
| unixSnob | I've heard unlimited as low as $30, but it involved tethering hacks | 19:50 |
| unixSnob | glass: wow that's very cheap.. never heard of it being that cheap anywhere | 19:50 |
| glass | it's highly country specific | 19:50 |
| glass | unixSnob: it's also really unlimited vs. 5gb/month etc thats sold as unlimited in many countries | 19:50 |
| unixSnob | well it gives me the feeling that it will probably at least be practical in belgium | 19:50 |
| Maximander | unixSnob: blackberry service includes unlimited data for tmo, and usb/bluetooth tethering just requires setting gateway to wap.voicestream.com | 19:51 |
| mgedmin | unlimited 3G is $36/month here, according to my carrier's website | 19:51 |
| mgedmin | hah, "unlimited" | 19:52 |
| mgedmin | if you download more than 3 GB per month, they reserve the right to reduce your download speed | 19:52 |
| mgedmin | there's a "PRO" plan that changes this limit to 10 GB per month, but it costs more | 19:52 |
| unixSnob | I just want to be able to hit the ground running.. get mobile broadband the day I arrive in brussels.. so I don't need to wait for a residence and residential service | 19:53 |
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| unixSnob | Maximander: is that under a 1 yr contract? | 19:53 |
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| unixSnob | The NIT will probably be the key to my survival for the first couple weeks :) | 19:54 |
| * unixSnob forgot how to use phonebooks and paper maps | 19:54 | |
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| jeroin | roaming is when you use various APs | 20:00 |
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| jeroin | you can't do that with WiFi, but you can with WiMAX, HSDPA, and so on | 20:00 |
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| * Maximander hates endianness | 20:01 | |
| Maximander | also, what is with sh's take on history? I guess busybox wasn't really built for multi-terminal use cases | 20:03 |
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| Blafasel | jeroin: I thought WiFi supports roaming? | 20:04 |
| Blafasel | Or at least something similar, grouping APs to do the same | 20:04 |
| Maximander | Wifi supports seemless handoff between AP's using WDS | 20:04 |
| Maximander | but only within one SSID | 20:04 |
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| jeroin | in practice it wont work | 20:07 |
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| jeroin | some networks do use it; you won't notice it then, but the range is too short to make big networks and you can't use roaming from one to another w/o disconnect | 20:09 |
| mgedmin | Maximander: I don't know of any shell that handles history from multiple concurrent sessions nicely | 20:09 |
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| johnx | bash at least handles in-session history ok | 20:10 |
| johnx | ash (I guess?) mixes history as it goes | 20:11 |
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| kulve | I made a patch to bb to have separate history as the mixed on is really annoying | 20:13 |
| kulve | s,on,one, | 20:13 |
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| Maximander | mgedmin: Bash at least keeps it per-session until logout | 20:17 |
| mgedmin | oh? ash has the feature I want? | 20:17 |
| jeroin | right now my project is to use hamachi + IP-over-DNS to create some kind of static IP which isn't 24/7 but nevertheless it can connect, ofcourse with other options like GPRS or even VoIP... the latter can always give a shell with asterisk think of it if your VoIP to VoIP of your VoIP provider is free (often the case) you can do nifty things with this | 20:17 |
| mgedmin | col | 20:17 |
| mgedmin | cool | 20:17 |
| mgedmin | or maybe I don't want it | 20:17 |
| mgedmin | I want other sessions to be inserted in my bash history before the beginning of my current session, I suppose | 20:18 |
| Maximander | when I stop a process (or it segfaults *grumble grumble*) I want to hit up arrow and have it start the same task... not what I was working on in another term | 20:18 |
| mgedmin | right | 20:18 |
| mgedmin | otoh when I open a new gnome-terminal tab, I want to hit up arrow and have it start the same task I had running in my original tab | 20:18 |
| mgedmin | this doesn't happen with bash | 20:18 |
| Maximander | nope | 20:18 |
| mgedmin | maybe there's an option? | 20:18 |
| mgedmin | write out ~/.bash_history after every command | 20:19 |
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| mgedmin | preferably without overwriting other session's history | 20:19 |
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| Maximander | eh, locking problems. Or, if only on new seesion, but then you'd need interprocess communication to tell everyone to flush history on new spawn, but that wouldn't scale well either | 20:19 |
| mgedmin | fun fun fun | 20:20 |
| Maximander | a history daemon would work well | 20:20 |
| mgedmin | maybe keep ~/.bash_history.d/$pid | 20:20 |
| mgedmin | and merge then on startup | 20:21 |
| mgedmin | or, yay, a d-bus history daemon | 20:21 |
| Maximander | heh, or, even SQL while we're at it | 20:21 |
| Jaffa | Hmm, dneary's commented on http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2008/06/04/maemo_org_what_next_part_2 - I'm not sure if he's being facetious. | 20:21 |
| dneary | Jaffa: Not at all | 20:22 |
| dneary | Jaffa: A community council might be useful, but the ideal for me is to have the lines "what is Nokia" and "what is maemo" clearly drawn, so that the community knows where it stands, what's up for grabs, and what's off-topic | 20:22 |
| Maximander | ok, iputils-ping is not ipv6 aware | 20:22 |
| qwerty12 | Maximander, ipv6 version of busybox is available | 20:23 |
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| qwerty12 | for maemo | 20:23 |
| Maximander | yeah, it's broken | 20:23 |
| dneary | Several times in Berlin, Quim kind of surprised me when he said "that's OT formaemo.org" when it wasn't at all clear to me that was the case | 20:23 |
| Maximander | for multicast | 20:23 |
| dneary | Jaffa: Away putting the kids to bed | 20:24 |
| dneary | bbiaw | 20:24 |
| Maximander | qwerty12: its unicast is fine, but its multicast is... well, it thinks its unicast. I've been told I need the iputils version, and that this is a long standing problem with busybox | 20:24 |
| mgedmin | my understanding is that "maemo.org" refers to the infrastructure | 20:24 |
| mgedmin | so: website, archive builders, repositories, bug trackers, garage, forums, mailing lists, documentation | 20:25 |
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| mgedmin | so thinks like "port app X" or "upgrade SDK library Y to version Z" are out of scope | 20:25 |
| mgedmin | * things | 20:25 |
| Italodance | http://www.maemopeople.org/ wow that's a new site :D | 20:25 |
| qwerty12 | Not really | 20:26 |
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| Italodance | X-Fade_ are u still around? | 20:27 |
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| qwerty12 | Maximander, ping6 binary: http://rapidshare.com/files/120077172/ping6.html . Compiled in CHINOOK_ARMEL target from iputils_20071127, | 20:28 |
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| * lcuk cranks the handle on googlemail | 20:31 | |
| Maximander | qwerty12: thanks | 20:33 |
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| lardman | Anyone here running Diablo? | 20:57 |
| lardman | trickie: was it you saying you had some code to "look" at and I offered to do so? | 20:59 |
| * lardman should remember to not drink all evening | 20:59 | |
| lardman | when at LinuxTag that is | 20:59 |
| lcuk | drink all evening, but call their hotel rooms at 6am to ask technical questions ;) | 21:00 |
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| shapr | heh | 21:01 |
| mgedmin | hi, shapr | 21:01 |
| mgedmin | are you coming to europython this year? | 21:01 |
| shapr | Nah, I live in Boston. | 21:01 |
| lcuk | lardman, whats your VB assignment then and should I be afraid for my job :P | 21:02 |
| shapr | That would be too far to travel, I think. | 21:02 |
| trickie | lardman: hi | 21:02 |
| trickie | lardman: don't think so | 21:02 |
| lardman | lcuk: ah no, nothing too exciting (though hard to remember it all now): Just doing a quick app to encase an IR camera interface which is written in VB (rather than doing it in C++) | 21:04 |
| lardman | hard to remember the VB that is | 21:04 |
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| lardman | trickie: ah, no worries. I'm sure I said to someone that I'd take a look at (or at least try to) the asm of some or other program | 21:04 |
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| lardman | pH5: ping | 21:05 |
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| lcuk | that reminds me, i should get camera support working in here | 21:05 |
| lardman | as a note type? | 21:06 |
| lcuk | yer | 21:06 |
| lardman | cool :) | 21:06 |
| lardman | give us code! | 21:06 |
| lcuk | im aiming to get all inputs :) | 21:06 |
| lardman | or at least something to play with :) | 21:06 |
| lcuk | ok | 21:06 |
| lcuk | if what i am doing now works ill make a proper named app without any cruft | 21:07 |
| lardman | cool, stick it in garage and watch the karma accumulate :) | 21:07 |
| lcuk | ill keep my playground for myself for now and draw out | 21:07 |
| lcuk | the bits as they are finished | 21:07 |
| lardman | Right, birthday meal, see you lot later on (probably won't be seeing too straight actually) :D | 21:09 |
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| lcuk | ive had something rolling around in my head though since ltag, and its this XV->omapfbyv12 conversion. its gotta take some time and i cant decide whether to just remove it and write directly to fb or stick with xv and have an app which works on many devices | 21:09 |
| lardman|pub | #ifdef | 21:09 |
| lardman|pub | ask me later or tomorrow though, got to run now | 21:10 |
| jott | hi folks | 21:10 |
| lcuk | its an entire driver/rendering functions | 21:10 |
| lcuk | cya | 21:10 |
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| lcuk | hi jott :) | 21:10 |
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| mgedmin | hm, looks like my hotel overcharged my bank account by 100 EUR | 21:12 |
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| trickie | jott: hi | 21:14 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, are you sure - i had a ~€20 drinks bill, but i got them to seperate that, you didnt trash the room did you :P | 21:15 |
| lcuk | they wanted to put it all together at first | 21:15 |
| mgedmin | I've got a paper bill here for 485 EUR, but 585 EUR are reserved in my bank account | 21:16 |
| lcuk | thats not good then | 21:16 |
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| summatusmentis | "oh... uh... all our paper bills are hand typed, must have been a typo" | 21:17 |
| mgedmin | I let the bank know; we'll see what happens | 21:17 |
| lcuk | yer as long as you have all documentation i doubt it will be a problem getting it rectified | 21:17 |
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| * MangoFusion wonders if he should open up a european bank account | 21:22 | |
| * summatusmentis wonders if he should move to europe | 21:22 | |
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| CptE51 | This | 21:27 |
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| unixSnob | summatusmentis: where would you be moving from? | 21:31 |
| summatusmentis | unixSnob: all purely hypothetical, I live in the US right now | 21:32 |
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| summatusmentis | I'm a college student, so even if it were to happen, it'd be years down the road yet | 21:33 |
| unixSnob | summatusmentis: as a college student, you could do the exchange program.. that would make everything easy | 21:34 |
| Italodance | for opening BIN/CUE i should burn it? | 21:34 |
| Italodance | yes? | 21:34 |
| unixSnob | Italodance: what's the question? | 21:35 |
| Italodance | unixSnob hehe just tell me the answer>? | 21:35 |
| unixSnob | Italodance: there is a way to convert those to ISO if you want to check it out mounted before burning | 21:35 |
| unixSnob | (to make sure it's what you want) | 21:35 |
| Italodance | tnx | 21:36 |
| summatusmentis | unixSnob: yeah, I'm probably gonna study abroad for at least a semester | 21:36 |
| unixSnob | Nero handles bin/cue, as well as toast | 21:36 |
| lcuk | i recall most virtual drives take bin/cue combos | 21:36 |
| lcuk | without burning | 21:36 |
| mgedmin | Italodance: mplayer can play movies directly from .bin/.cue without burning, iirc | 21:36 |
| unixSnob | summatusmentis: study abroad where? | 21:36 |
| Italodance | unixSnob no it's a game | 21:36 |
| Italodance | unixSnob what's this mean? Just extract the archives and burn the .cue file | 21:37 |
| summatusmentis | unixSnob: maybe spain, or japan | 21:37 |
| Italodance | from bin? or burn it? | 21:37 |
| summatusmentis | or germany | 21:37 |
| lcuk | Italodance, speak to the publisher for information on burning image files for your legit gaming software :) | 21:37 |
| unixSnob | summatusmentis: well you might hear that japanese like americans.. it's not really true. Don't let their good hospitality fool you. | 21:38 |
| summatusmentis | does anyone like americans these days? | 21:38 |
| unixSnob | Spanish chicks are quite loving though.. go for spain | 21:38 |
| summatusmentis | I just think that Japan would be a cool place to go | 21:39 |
| lcuk | i saw a great live dvd at ltag apparantly full of games :) http://www.linux-gamers.net/ | 21:39 |
| summatusmentis | I speak the language in Spain too :) and it might get me credit enough for a spanish major | 21:39 |
| unixSnob | summatusmentis: the japanese are the least accepting of other cultures. They'll pretend to like you, and bad mouth you in japanese | 21:39 |
| summatusmentis | welll, if I don't understand them, do I care? | 21:40 |
| Italodance | i got it | 21:41 |
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| unixSnob | summatusmentis: I visited europe after graduating college.. while most of the girls were as prude as americans, the spanish were exceptionally friendly | 21:49 |
| summatusmentis | lol, well, I wouldn't be going for wild-sexcapades, although, depending on my relationship status at the time, I wouldn't be opposed either | 21:50 |
| unixSnob | I recall going to some night clubs in spain and ibiza, and the chicks would dance right up against me.. nice and dirty.. good stuff | 21:50 |
| unixSnob | OTOH, if you want to surround yourself with prudes because you want to avoid relationships, go for britain ;) | 21:51 |
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| I-luv-ITT | is ITT down? | 21:51 |
| summatusmentis | well, I'm in a serious relationship now, and I won't be travelling abroad for a year, so I don't know where I'll be at, at the time :) | 21:51 |
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| summatusmentis | seems to be taking a lot longer than usual penguinbait | 21:52 |
| penguinbait | I was using it and poof | 21:53 |
| summatusmentis | yep, it just times out for me | 21:53 |
| lcuk | so it was you that broke it | 21:53 |
| penguinbait | I broke itt | 21:53 |
| summatusmentis | timed* | 21:53 |
| penguinbait | hehe | 21:53 |
| penguinbait | busted! | 21:53 |
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| * lcuk bangs head against brick wall multiple times and shouts obscenities at windows | 21:58 | |
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| penguinbait | were the windows in the brick wall? | 21:59 |
| lcuk | i would prefer to put the bricks through windows, but i value my monitor | 22:00 |
| penguinbait | <--- used to be a brick layer | 22:00 |
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| lcuk | hmm, come and build a nice wall around this computer please | 22:01 |
| lcuk | remove its oxygen | 22:01 |
| penguinbait | if you knock down the wall with your head, I can build a new one | 22:01 |
| penguinbait | just steal its power | 22:02 |
| lcuk | gulp | 22:05 |
| lcuk | log file for me running program is 3.8mb. i only ran the program for ~10seconds | 22:05 |
| penguinbait | sounds like my firewall | 22:06 |
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| penguinbait | wow itt just half loaded all funky | 22:06 |
| penguinbait | and its back | 22:07 |
| penguinbait | and itt's back | 22:07 |
| lcuk | normally its well behaved but i just left a log entry in there for every point it reads from file. the problem is i am loading every point of every stroke of every page ive used my stylus with in the last 3 weeks.. | 22:07 |
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| penguinbait | help Linus is talking to me, heheh | 22:23 |
| glass | hah | 22:24 |
| summatusmentis | penguinbait: what? really? | 22:24 |
| summatusmentis | or am I wan confused? | 22:24 |
| summatusmentis | way* | 22:24 |
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| MangoFusion | is this the real Linus, or the virtual one? | 22:25 |
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| penguinbait | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20693&goto=newpost | 22:25 |
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| summatusmentis | god! I was wondering why my tablet kept talking to me when I booted it | 22:33 |
| summatusmentis | I forgot that I had install_tools installed | 22:33 |
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| jeroin | and merge then on startup <- which goes first tho | 22:46 |
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| pH5 | lardman: pong | 23:04 |
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| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: ping | 23:19 |
| lcuk | ph5, gone to pub | 23:19 |
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| Jaffa | Mmmm, pub. | 23:20 |
| Jaffa | One beer with dinner wasn't quite enough. May treat myself to another and watch the Father Ted special on More4 | 23:20 |
| lcuk | sounds fecking reasonable | 23:22 |
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| Jaffa | drink! | 23:23 |
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| penguinbait | <---- Bounces quarter into shot glass: Back at ya! | 23:25 |
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| Jaffa | Few favourites on p.m.o on my "Community Council" idea. Any direct comments? Totally out-of-line? Waste of time/effort? Meh? | 23:30 |
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| lcuk | whats pmo though | 23:34 |
| lcuk | ie where can i read | 23:35 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: planet.maemo.org, hang on let me find a direct link... | 23:37 |
| Jaffa | http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2008/06/04/maemo_org_what_next_part_2 | 23:38 |
| zap | Jaffa: you should have used R/G/B for the vertices | 23:39 |
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| Jaffa | zap: a little cliched, and I enjoyed playing with some Inkscape effects | 23:42 |
| zap | :() | 23:42 |
| zap | om,gh | 23:43 |
| zap | m,y keyboaerd is beroken ghm,m,... | 23:43 |
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| lcuk | jaffa :) replied | 23:50 |
| Jaffa | ta :) | 23:51 |
| lcuk | only making use of my membership :P | 23:52 |
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| Jaffa | :p | 23:53 |
| lcuk | now onto serious matters: whats all this about the doctor having a bit with his (onscreen) daughter | 23:54 |
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| zap | ugh | 23:57 |
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| Jaffa | I hope that's referring to "The Doctor's Daughter" from a couple of weeks back; and not a spoiler ;) | 23:58 |
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