IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-06-03

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texelGAN8001: sounds like a capital idea, actually.00:06
texelThere's far too much data in there that's too old or outdated for the newer hardware / software.00:07
GAN8001Well, you know we're moving to mediawiki, right?00:08
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GAN8001dneary, Navi and others are working on going through all the old pages from the midgard wiki00:08
texelOoh. Thought that had happened already.00:08
GAN8001sorting out the outdated and just plain irrelevant stuff.00:08
GAN8001No, ongoing00:08
* texel nods00:08
GAN8001although they should be getting close.00:08
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texelWell, that'll certainly be a huge improvement.00:09
texelAnd a wiki projects page to prune it occasionally will help as well.00:09
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GAN8001Anyway, my focus would largely be getting a good framework (templates, categories, etc) up for the mediawiki and moving forward with that00:09
GAN8001and less so working on the old stuff00:09
texelI know there's been a few places where I've wondered about cleaning up the wiki, but been unsure if others were already doing such a thing.00:09
GAN8001but we need a good, centralized organization point either way.00:10
* texel nods00:10
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GAN8001Wwe need all the help we can get. I've been holding off a bit until the migration actually takes place, but after that, it's all out and every extra pair of hands helps. ;)00:11
GAN8001Especially since the mediawiki is such a fresh-start.00:11
GAN8001I'd like to see it really take off and not end up wallowing around like we did for two years with midgard.00:11
GAN8001Basically, though, I wouldn't invest any time into midgard at this point.00:13
* texel nods00:13
GAN8001Need a good name . . .00:14
JaffaGAN8001: good idea00:14
GAN8001Wiki Action Group - WAG00:14
GAN8001or Maemo-Wiki Action Group00:14
texelWAG the DOG? =op00:15
texelNo idea what DOG would be. =op00:15
GAN8001Damn Offtopic Garbage00:15
JaffaDigital Originated Graphic. No, different context.00:16
GAN8001Does bugzilla have a userprofile page?00:16
texelWiki Action Group, the Data Organization Group00:16
texelGAN8001: I don't think so.00:17
texeluser accounts are used rather... ...sparingly in bugzilla.00:17
texelMostly to track comments and bugs, but that's about it.00:17
GAN8001I guess I'll just make a search that includes all the bugs I've actioned.00:17
GAN8001By the way, when's the mediawiki gonna get rolled in with the karma system?00:19
JaffaI was wondering that, too.00:21
GAN8001Make your edits as small and numerous as possible to karma whore. ;) :P00:21
GAN8001"another itT redesign (tablet-friendly) is planned. --Reggie" I hope he gets moving on that soon.00:22
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hrw|goneabiword is for chinook somewhere00:24
summatusmentisI don't think anything native yet, unless it happened today00:24
summatusmentisdebian chroot + abiword works well though00:26
pupnikabiword is not a bug plagued disease now?00:26
ds3!@#$@%@#$@#$#@ poorly designed third party chargers :(00:27
GAN8001Abiword is around00:27
GAN8001I don't think there's a binary about, though00:27
GAN8001You can compile from svn, though, hrw|gone.00:27
AStormds3: hmm?00:27
AStormGAN800: there is a binary in beta tests00:27
hrw|goneGAN8001: thx00:27
GAN8001AStorm, CLOSED beta. ;)00:28
GAN8001That's not "about"00:28
AStormGAN8001: semi-closed - you can register easily ;P00:28
AStormds3: all the 3rd party chargers I've seen were too weak for N8x000:28
ds3AStorm: oh I see00:28
summatusmentisGarnet runs on the n810? cool :)00:28
AStormeven the default AC-4e is slightly too weak00:28
texelAStorm: have you tried the cellpod?00:29
ds3I just got back from a trip with a combo 12V/AC charger and it barely charged the N80000:29
AStormN8x0 can grab 800mA itself00:29
texelI use that with my N810 and have had no problems.00:29
AStormtexel: no, what is it?00:29
ds3by barely I mean, I had to shut it down and let it just charge00:29
texelAStorm: it's a multi-port charger.00:29
texelLemme see if I can find the URL.00:29
AStormtexel: but, what it's rated at?00:29
AStormds3: you had a very weak charger00:29
AStormeven the USB one can charge the device if not used really extensively00:30
ds3AStorm: do you know if a 5.5V, 1A source will satisfy the N800?00:30
ds3maybe I ran out of patience00:30
texelAh. Sorry; it's called the chargepod.
AStormds3: definitely... but 5,5V is a bit high00:30
AStormdrop it slightly00:30
GAN8001maemowiki or wikimaemo?00:30
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texelAStorm: not sure, but I'm able to charge my N810 from dead to full in around a few hours.00:30
ds3I was draining power faster then it was charging... all I was doing was listening to MP3's on a train with that charger plugged in00:30
AStormtexel: it's a bit weak, 500mA is like USB00:31
AStormds3: throw that junk away00:31
ds3AStorm: Hmmmm interesting... all the 5.0V sources I have tried resulted in a "Not charging" message... but the 5.5V ones did just fine00:31
texelAh wel.00:31
AStormds3: impossible00:31
AStormprobably bad source00:31
ds3AStorm: well, that charger was compact for traveling00:31
AStormN8x0 are rated at 5V00:31
ds3both the 770 and N800 I have along with the Nokia phones did the same thing00:32
ds3it would see the charger at 5V but then say it is not charging00:32
AStormprobably too low current00:32
texelUses less power than what multiple chargers do, though -- which is a big win for me, actually. Power out here in is painfully expensive on SRP.00:32
AStormand the charger automatic protection circuit fired00:32
ds3I guess I'll run some experiments then00:32
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ds3I don't think it is low current.. that same 5V pack charged the treo just fine00:33
AStormds3: 300mA-400mA will charge the treo I guess00:33
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AStormit will barely keep N8x0 running00:33
AStormI had one such weak charger (heh, my luck with factory plug prompted a few purchases)00:34
AStormtexel: if you can make it use two ports, then you're in a winning situation00:34
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AStormI'll have to build such a charger some day (for USB)00:34
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ds3AStorm: it isn't weak AFAIK... this is a Li battery pack with a internal regulator to feed 5V00:34
AStormds3: what's the output current rating?00:35
AStormLi-Ion can't send too much current00:35
texelAStorm: heh -- I haven't tried it yet, but I'm sure it's possible.00:35
texelTrick is finding an adapter for the micro-USB connector.00:35
* texel still doesn't understand why Nokia used that... =o/00:35
AStormmicroUSB? wtf?00:36
AStormN8x0 aren't charged through USB port00:36
texelAStorm: that's all the N810 has.00:36
AStormat least, not yet - has that changed with the WiMax edition?00:36
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texelAhhh -- I misread.00:36
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texelSorry -- I saw USB and got confused.00:36
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texelNo idea about the WiMax edition. O.o00:37
AStormhopefully Nokia will add USB charging in the next device00:37
texelAs long as it's /not/ micro-USB, I'll be happy. =op00:38
AStormit will be00:38
AStormnew phones have microUSB too, so...00:38
AStormthey will become more common00:38
texelSo then it's not that uncommon.00:38
texelJust uncommon here in the US.00:38
texelAt the moment.00:38
AStormuncommon yet00:38
AStormmost phones have miniUSB still00:38
* texel nods00:38
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AStormfor extra lulz, I'll get some EE guys to build an RF charger for devices like N8x000:40
texelNice. =o)00:40
AStormexcept somewhat dangerous ;P00:40
texelhow so?00:40
AStormand I'm not sure enough power transfer is possible w/o frying everything around (including people)00:40
texelDepends on how you build the charger.00:41
GAN8001I'll move it to a real page as soon as we figure out a name. :P00:41
AStormtexel: indeed, but longer RF are forbidden00:41
AStormand ultrashort have very short range00:41
AStormand low penetration00:41
GAN8001Maybe maemowiki Action Group00:41
texelBut you don't need a very long range.00:42
AStormGAN8001: wikiaddicts ;P00:42
AStormtexel: yeah, some m00:42
* texel raises an eyebrow00:42
GAN8001AStorm, that'd be for wikipedia. :P00:42
texelAre you talking about broadcast power, as per Tesla's original theories?00:42
AStormI'll ask someone more experienced if it's feasible00:42
AStormtexel: maybe, maybe not00:42
AStormthere are other, newer ways of power transfer00:42
AStormalthough I'm not sure if they've been already implemented00:43
texelAStorm: well, there's already a prototype induction power charger that is essentially a mat on a table.00:43
AStorminduction is simple00:43
texelIt's not RF, and not broadcast power, but as long as you have the other half of the coil, you're fine.00:43
AStormI know how induction charging works, thank you... it'd be nice, but not nice enough00:43
texelWell, broadcast power is tricky.00:44
AStormneed RF or other form of short range broadcast for extra cool factor00:44
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texelYou have to be able to broadcast enough to pick up off of the carrier wave...00:44
texel...but not enough to heat up other materials. =op00:44
texelThe original idea was to use a scatter/gather system.00:45
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ds3AStorm: I don't have it handy but it was meant for powering bigger stuff... event has a 7.5V out connector00:45
texelWhich meant /lots/ of antennae over a large area, sampling little bits of the original broadcast.00:45
AStormds3: voltage is one thing, current another00:45
AStormtexel: what about resonant induction charging for longer ranges?00:45
AStormfeasible for how long range?00:46
ds3I know... just saying it has all the signs it is built for a decent output00:46
ds3but based on what you said, I should be able to run an experiment with a 7805 based charger00:46
texelAStorm: feasable, but requires quite a bit more power.00:46
AStormtexel: definitely00:46
AStormnot that whole lot00:46
texelMaybe if you increase the oscillation frequency you might get a bit more range...00:46
texel...but unfortunately it would become line-of-sight.00:46
AStormand radio police at my door? ;P00:47
texelNot for induction, really.00:47
AStormwell, line of sight is good enough00:47
texelTrick there is that the intensity of the current would be variable based upon the distance from the base coils.00:47
texelNo question, it's a /really/ hard problem.00:48
AStormas long as it's not too large, a good power regulator could do00:49
texelThe biggest of the issue is finding the right mix.00:49
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AStormN has a good valve power system fortunately, so temporary current fall means little00:50
* texel nods00:50
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hans-castorpanyone know about parsing xml in python?01:07
texelhans-castorp: you might ask in #python.01:08
hans-castorpa good idea01:08
lcukGAN8001, running all day without wifi and battery has barely moved ;)01:08
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GAN8001lcuk, you should get about 10-14 days at 100% idle Mr. I-can't-be-arsed-to-buy-a-real-router. :P01:15
GAN8001Join the cool club, join MAG!
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lcukwell i was just on the login screen and pondering if i had an account01:17
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GAN8001It just uses the garage accounts.01:18
GAN8001Which makes for ugly names, as they're all lowercase.01:18
lcukmay 14: from garage: Thank you for registering on the garage web site. You have01:18
lcukaccount with username lcuk created for you.01:18
lcuktoday on the wiki: Login error:01:19
lcukThere is no user by the name "lcuk". Check your spelling.01:19
AStormforgot to activate it?01:19
lcukcan i really mistype my nick that badly?01:19
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lcukok, rerererecreated account, i had been forgotten01:23
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GAN8001Poor lcuk. :(01:23
lcukeasily forgotten01:23
AStormtoo short nick to remember01:24
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Navipoor kucl01:25
Saviqhmm anyone using roadmap? I can't get it to show anything :/01:25
ds3you need to have the base map installed in addition to the area maps01:26
Saviqhmm... that might be something I'm missing... where can I find some info?01:26
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ds3donno, it was trial and error mostly01:27
ds3I got far enough to see the maps but couldn't get GPS to work :/01:27
Saviqhow did you install the base map, then?01:27
* lcuk is not lcuky01:27
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Mouseysomebody should port wallpaper-tray to maemo01:29
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GAN8001Mousey, vote
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* Mousey votes01:33
ds3Saviq: another tarball from the same page on sf.net01:33
Saviqwill try that, thanks01:34
ds3where are you getting the maps from?01:34
ds3or are you attempting the OSM stuff?01:35
ds3Oh... hmmm FWIW, I am using the TIGER maps01:35
Saviqyeah I'm in europe...01:35
ds3let me find the page and get you the name of the file to try01:36
SaviqI found it01:36
ds3I think it was usdir.rdm.tar.gz for me01:37
* texel votes01:37
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GAN8001Free for now.01:46
Mouseymmm, beta01:46
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ds3GAN8001: has there been an announcement on it being sold eventually?01:52
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GAN800No, it may remain free forever. I don't know what they're doing with it.01:53
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ds3ah good, thought i missed an announcement01:55
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Mouseyanybody know how to get NavIt or Mapper (not maemo mapper) working on an n810?01:57
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AStormare these available for ARM?01:58
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Mouseyu mean me?01:58
Mouseyyea, they install just fine, they're in existing repos for os200801:58
Mouseybut i can't get either to connect to the internal gps01:58
AStorminternal GPS is a bluetooth one01:59
Mouseyexcept no mac01:59
Mouseyworks with maemo mapper01:59
AStormat least looks like it01:59
Mouseybut the same trick doesn't work on Mapper01:59
AStormyou can try modifying gpsd config01:59
Mousey[which is a fork of maemo mapper]01:59
AStormor passing the path to gpsd socket01:59
GAN800I think that has more to do with Maemo Mapper than the way the GPS is set up, AStorm.01:59
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lcukinternal gps works near liverpool02:01
lcukworked really well actually :D02:02
texellcuk: should work anywhere, really -- that's the point of the GPS. =op02:02
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lcukin germany there were 4 of us with 810s and gps locking was shockingly bad02:03
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lcukin the end we all got a lock, but it must have taken about 20 minutes each minimum02:03
Mouseyok, garnet VM is officially cool02:03
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GAN800lcuk, I'm assuming you saw the agps stuff for Diablo, right?02:10
lcuksaw? you mean at ltag??02:11
GAN800No, itT02:11
lcuknope, ive been busy getting real life back in order after 2 weeks of chaos02:11
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lcukive barely read any net02:12
penguinbareal life is over rated02:12
GAN800Check the Diablo thread, but there's AGPS stuff in Diablo. They're talking sub-30s locks.02:12
AStormI now have a plain presentation waiting to be spruced up02:12
lcuknahhh its not - ive just got back from a comedy night with hattie haybridge and norman lovett :)02:12
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lcukGAN800, :) good - anything will help the frustration we have been feeling02:13
lcukthough tonight for the first time we got lost and were able to use it to get out of a bind02:14
Mouseygan800 so is there some diablo repos i can add and start grabbing that stuff now?!02:14
Mouseyor is it hardware specific to hardware taht isn't out yet or soemting02:15
GAN8001Not sure of the details, but it should get a location either from IP or by you taping your location on a map.02:15
GAN8001Mousey, you need to get the password02:15
GAN8001It's in the apt sources02:15
Mouseydiablo repos are passworded?!02:15
GAN8001It's not out yet, Mousey.02:15
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GAN8001Somebody noticed that the upgrade repo was there (Marius mentioned it worked, and Benson, qwerty12, myself and some others did the upgrade soon after ;)), and upgraded Chinook installs using SSU.02:16
lcukgan, so if we have home location fixed and known to the system if its switched on as we leave or in near area it will stay02:16
GAN8001They stopped the leak by passwording the repo02:17
MouseyA-GPS available on other N-Series phones (e.g. N95 with new firmware update,N78, N82) requires packet data channel, MMS or GPRS. WiFi is not supported. N8x0 it is not a phone, how does it get the A-GPS?02:17
GAN8001But the password is easy to get to.02:17
GAN8001lcuk, it gets the location from whatever IP address you're carrying at the moment you try to connect.02:17
GAN8001From Nokia's server.02:17
lcuk10.0.0.2 ;)02:17
GAN8001eyeroll. . . .02:17
lcukand since its not connected to an ip whilst out driving (when its needed) it wont help much...02:18
Mouseyok, that's funny02:18
GAN8001That's why they have a map you can tap on for when you don't have internet02:18
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lcukbut would it be really difficult to say "here is home, try here first..02:19
GAN8001I'm pretty sure you can get assistance with data from a cellphone, too, but not sure on the details with that.02:19
GAN8001lcuk, that's why you tap the giant map.02:19
lcukor at least just remember the last location, normally you dont drive hundreds of miles every day02:19
t_s_ohmm, gvm is more fun then first expected...02:20
GAN8001Having it try potentially false location would increase the lock time by a lot.02:20
lcukyou mean it has NO idea where it might be at the start and i always have to start from the entire world?02:20
GAN8001Honestly, I don't really know the details very well02:20
GAN8001lcuk, no, I don't have an N81002:20
lcuklol i know, but havign to start from nowhere isnt really assisted, its like playing guess who02:20
GAN8001I haven't installed the software02:20
AStormGAN8001: actually, it'd help02:20
GAN8001I've seen the screenshot, I've seen the descriptions.02:21
AStormif you place an estimated location02:21
AStormand the N had cached ephemeris data02:21
GAN8001AStorm, what I'm saying, is if you tell it to guess you're at home everytime you connect, then that'll increase lock time when you're not at home.02:21
AStormcould try some after fixing02:21
GAN8001As lcuk suggested.02:21
lcukthat fix time does not sound like agps, it sounds more like its just remembering last location02:21
AStormwhat about a click on the map instead?02:21
GAN8001AStorm, the method that you're talking about is EXACTLY what they do. . . .02:22
lcukin germany we all walked to a meal getting a lock, got locks, went inside and turned off.  on the way back it took just as long to get lock02:22
AStormthat's a real improvement02:22
lcukif it simply remembered where we were it wouldv been super quick02:22
GAN8001lcuk, go install Diablo and tell us how it works.02:23
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lcukwhy, im just talking through what a logical program should do02:24
t_s_oi wonder why every contacts app i have bumped into seems hell bent on turning two part names on a single line into last name first name comboes...02:24
lcukbecause thats the most ocmmon breakdown option?02:25
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GAN8001Somebody should tell ludovicus that he's duplicating a ton of work. :\02:26
t_s_ofunny enough lcuk, not in my part of the world...02:27
lcukwell ok then, its not totally true and it doesnt work even here all the time02:27
t_s_onow, if they had given me the option to go first name last name or something, i would be quietly happy. but they seem either locked or worse...02:27
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GAN8001Join up! Join up!
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GAN8001Hrm . . . how should I set up the MAG namespace?03:23
GAN8001MAG:Topic or Maemowiki Action Group/Topic03:24
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AStormrename it MAGE ;)03:27
AStormMaemo Action Group of Experts ;P03:27
GAN800I was thinking mWAG to make things more complicated. :D03:27
AStormMaemowiki Action Group of Editors, if you will03:28
lcukoffer punch and pie03:28
AStormpunch, I suspect the drink03:28
AStormnot the other kind03:29
GAN800Free hat!03:29
lcukmy god im tired03:29
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GAN800Join my cool group then go to bed. :P03:30
lcukThe only problem I think you have is what do you call yourselfs, I suggest the "Committee for the Liberation and Integration of Terrifying Organisms and their Rehabilitation Into Society".03:31
lcukmore commonly known as CLITORIS03:32
lcuk(sorry, been to a red dwarf comedy evening)03:32
AStormthat's the name of the US jail system03:32
AStormit's taken03:32
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* lcuk met holly (and hilly) tonight03:33
n800nhow many people in the group03:36
n800nyou have to have a number after MAG03:36
n800nthe badges will look so much cooler03:36
AStormlike it?03:36
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GAN80011, me, right now, n800n.03:37
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befordwiki maintainers should remove index.php from urls03:40
befordlooks ugly :P03:40
GAN8001Go convince the mediawiki guys.03:42
GAN8001That's an upstream decision.03:43
befordI followed a guide on mediawiki site, or somewhere else, can't remember right now, and got rid of it03:44
SargunI wish the n810 had better GPS reception.03:44
Sarguna more powerful processor (not ARM....)03:45
GAN8001beford, find it and toss it X-Fade's direction, then.03:45
GAN8001x86 would net you about 2 hours of battery life, Sargun.03:45
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GAN8001ARM (or MIPS) is really the only reasonable choice in the mobile space.03:45
GAN8001and Diablo has A-GPS.03:45
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Sargunor less...03:48
GAN8001Clock for clock, ARM is much more efficient at this point.03:48
GAN8001Wait for OMAP303:48
SargunARM has a high cost for context switches03:49
Sargunwhich translates to a terrible time threading03:50
GAN8001Let me know when you find an x86 processor that gives decent battery life at these device sizes. ;)03:52
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Sargunhopefully intel figures out the Atom.03:54
GAN8001They likely will03:55
GAN8001But I doubt they'll ever really catch up with ARM.03:55
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lcukhopefully, nvidia figures out the Tegra03:59
Sargunin terms technologically, or market share?03:59
GAN8001Why Tegra over OMAP?03:59
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lcuknvidia has ARM + geforce and superior battery performance03:59
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GAN8001lcuk, you have any real numbers to back that up? :P04:00
GAN8001That marketing fluff they're dancing around right now?04:00
GAN8001I don't think so.04:00
lcukonly whats released on their site04:00
lcukjust same as atom04:00
Naviin-house numbers are always skewed04:01
lcukprobably, but for the headlines, its damned impressive04:01
Sargunremember Intel made Xscale processors for the longest time.04:01
lcukbasically its full system on chip and very powerful04:02
SargunThose kicked quite a bit of ass.04:02
lcukyer and atom will be good as wel04:02
GAN8001lcuk, exactly the same thing we've got with OMAP.04:02
GAN8001except TI has actually shipped millions of devices.04:02
GAN8001Nvidia has shipped exactly NADA04:02
lcukapart from having a nvidia graphics card04:02
lcuki have no doubts that TI are good, but something makes me want to cheer on nvidia in the same way I cheer for AMD04:03
NaviWhat's that?04:03
GAN8001Yeah, I don't see it. :P04:04
SargunDid Nvidia even ship a graphics card themselves?04:04
GAN8001Still, competition is good04:04
GAN8001No, Sargun.04:04
SargunI thought they were a mostly IP company?04:05
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GAN8001and TI has run pretty much unopposed in the high-end ARM SoC realm.04:05
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n800ntegra will kick ass04:05
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GAN8001n800n, you're basing that on what, exactly?04:07
NaviFanboy hype?04:07
NaviThat's always great.04:07
lcukn800n, it looks that way :)04:07
GAN8001Sounds like it to me.04:07
GAN8001I'll reserve my judgement for once they actually ship a unit.04:07
GAN8001For now, it's just so much hot air.04:07
lcuki like arm, does it matter which brand I buy?   its coke v pepsi again :P04:07
GAN8001lcuk, that's not the point.04:08
lcukyes it is04:08
GAN8001The point is overhyped fanboism based on absolutely nothing so far. ;)04:08
lcukthe big companies look to be coming out with amazing things this year.  im pretty pleased this market is hotting up04:08
SargunAre you European?04:08
SargunThought so.04:09
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lcukx86 is dying, long live 68k ;)04:10
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Sargunlcuk, og, god.04:12
SargunNext you'll tell me that ASM is the next big language.04:12
n800nno offense but nvidia has done some kickass stuff04:12
n800nover a long period of time04:12
GAN8001n800n, in the mobile realm?04:12
n800nin the processor realm04:13
GAN8001No offense, but marketing hype is a bad thing to base your judgement on. ;)04:15
n800nand what's being european have anything to do with anything04:15
lcukGAN, they have been designing/building chipsets and processors for years now - this computer and every one in my house has a nvidia motherboard and nvidia graphics card04:15
n800nheh good strike there04:15
n800nand it wasn't 15 years ago like intel either04:16
n800nthey're still doing it04:16
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GAN8001Whatever, like I said, I'll pass my judgement when they actually have something more than marketing hype and fanboism to show us.04:17
lcukthey do more work for me than the AMD chip, they are multi core, fucking fast and are very well designed, just because they have a big exterior does not mean the tiny core needs to have all that around it04:17
n800nwhatever lcuk you fanboy04:17
n800nyou're fanboy04:17
lcukfacts :P04:17
n800njust say you're a fanboy04:17
n800nit'll make GAN happy04:18
lcuki never thought i was until now :)04:18
lcukits just common sense, they have proven reliability04:18
n800ni see it the same way04:18
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lcukdon't apple macs ship with nvidia graphics now?04:22
n800ngoogle says yes04:23
GAN8001Both at the moment04:23
GAN8001and Intel04:23
GAN8001They alternate back and forth all the time.04:23
GAN8001ATI in the G4 tower04:23
GAN8001Nvidia in G504:23
n800nthey got smart heh04:23
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GAN8001I've always had much better experience with ATI04:24
GAN8001Nvidia cards are pretty shitty overall on Mac.04:24
lcukso, their market has a large portion of the pc market and in the macbooks and lots of other laptops and you say they arent in the mobile market?04:24
GAN8001I wish I had been smart and gotten the X850 over the 6800 Ultra04:24
NaviNvidia cards are SHITTY?04:24
n800ni used to love ATI until i got nvidia04:24
NaviGTFO GAN800104:24
n800nyou guys are so off... i dunno exactly what you're using the cards for...04:24
GAN8001New Mac Pros ship with ATI by default04:25
NaviNvidia is totally the best, period.  There is no such thing as a shitty Nvidia card04:25
n800nbut for media production ati is a nightmare04:25
lcukdo they gan?04:25
NaviATI sucks hands down04:25
GAN8001n800n, Nvidia drivers don't support rotation.04:25
lcukMacBook Pro features the color and clarity of NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT graphics with up to 512MB of GDDR3 memory.04:25
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n800nthere's 3rd party stuff for any card04:25
lcukoh, maybe in linux ;)04:25
n800nfor rotation04:25
GAN8001Mac Pros, not MacBooks. . . .04:26
GAN8001The point being, Apple uses both a lot.04:26
GAN8001The dominance seems to change every generation04:26
GAN8001So trying to use Apple to "prove" your point is a poor decision.04:26
NaviThere's no point that needs proving04:26
n800nati made mistakes with they're media center software, it was just awful for years and years04:26
GAN8001Besides, ATI drivers on OS X are consistently better than Nvidia04:26
NaviATI sucks. There is no way ATI can be better than Nvidia04:27
GAN8001This is from direct, personal experience with both products. ;)04:27
SargunnVidia is better.04:27
lcuk......The standard graphics card — an ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT with 256MB of GDDR3 memory, PCI Express 2.0, and two dual-link DVI ports —......04:27
SargunnVidia > ATI04:27
NaviI don't acknowledge you04:27
lcukFor motion graphics, 3D modeling, rendering, or animation, you’ll need the greater graphics horsepower offered by the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT with 512MB of GDDR3 memory and latest-generation NVIDIA GPU technology.04:27
SargunIntel is somewhere between the two.04:27
Sargunlcuk, or Quadro.04:27
GAN8001OK, whatever04:27
lcukthats apple themselves04:27
GAN8001You guys seem to think I'm arguing that ATI is better than Nvidia04:27
GAN8001Honestly, I could care less which card I get as long as it works.04:28
GAN8001The point I was TRYING to get across is that making judgements based on marketing alone isn't very helpful.04:28
lcuknot at all, we are trying to show you that nvidia are amazing at what they do and im well impressed by what i see with tegra04:28
GAN8001I'm really not interested in arguing this.04:28
NavinVidia sucks04:28
Navifuck nVidia04:28
n800nwho's talking about marketing tho04:28
n800nlike it's experience with the product04:28
GAN8001The Tegra is ALL marketing at the moment.04:28
lcukbut the rest of their product line isnt04:29
NaviThe Tegra sucks04:29
GAN8001More on-topic and less retarded, anybody have good experience with Mediawiki and templates?04:29
NaviThe C3 line of VIA processors are better04:29
n800n<Navi> I don't acknowledge you04:29
n800n<Navi> The Tegra sucks04:29
lcuknavi, more open i will give you that04:29
n800nvia is kinda exciting too04:30
NaviVIA sucks04:30
NaviI was making a suck to suck comparison04:30
NaviGAN8001, no.04:30
lcukbut arent they the only ones who have opened sourced their graphics drivers04:30
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n800ni think via is really exciting for the embedded processor stuff04:31
n800nat least it's been for a couple years04:31
n800nthey're niche-ey tho04:31
n800nlike there are a lot of people int car computers / carputers04:31
n800nvia is big in that part04:32
caesargushow do I compile a custom kernel for my nokia 770?04:36
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summatusmentisI am le tired04:45
Sargunle tired04:48
summatusmentisthat's not what I wanted04:48
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befordGoogle's evil url tracking method04:50
GAN8001summatusmentis, your clipboard slow, too? :P04:50
summatusmentisyeah, for real, geez04:50
summatusmentisGAN8001: no, i right clicked on the link and said "Copy Link Location" from a google search return04:51
summatusmentisand apparently that's what it gives you04:51
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summatusmentisGAN8001: have you tried the garnet VM?04:54
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GAN800Yes, summatusmentis, it works fine, but I have no need for Palm garbage. ;)05:20
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GAN800Dubbed shit.05:26
GAN800wrong channel.05:26
summatusmentisGAN8001: no, I agree... it's just interesting05:28
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GAN800Yeah, pretty cool.05:29
summatusmentisit'll make my uncle(a hardcore palm user) excited :)05:29
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summatusmentisone-upping him is my goal in life :-P05:29
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penguinbaithas anyone noticed any file corruption while downloading files via maemo browser?05:37
briandno... is it subtle?05:38
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summatusmentispenguinbait: only with your files05:40
summatusmentismaemo browser, and firefox on my local machine05:40
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pupnikwhy is 'wednesday' prononounced 'wendsday'?06:22
NaviBecause no one wants to pronounce it wed-nes-day06:22
pupniki do06:23
NaviI really don't06:24
summatusmentisI sometimes do06:24
summatusmentiswhen I'm in a weird mood06:25
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* Surfer55 Visit (upload pic make mag) - (play with webcam online) - (insulter/anon email) - (fun) - (put your face on funny body) - (health) - (Canada eh) - (geeks)06:49
*** Surfer55 changes topic to "-=[ ]=- Make Free/Fun Graphics Online At =)"06:49
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summatusmentisugh... anyone have the previous topic?06:50
*** GAN8001 changes topic to "Development platform for Nokia Internet Tablets | | | | | | Quim Gil's talk at LinuxTag"06:53
summatusmentisGAN8001: thanks06:58
summatusmentisnight lopz06:58
summatusmentis'night all07:03
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SargunHow long until Diabloe?10:04
KotCzarnytill the hell freezes over10:05
johnxSargun, next couple months maybe?10:05
johnxs/next/within the next/10:05
infobotjohnx meant: Sargun, within the next couple months maybe?10:05
KotCzarnyjohnx: it had to be 2008 Q2 ;)10:05
johnxalright, so if it isn't out by june 30th, then it's late :)10:06
Sargunits either that or I buy an external GPS receiver10:07
johnxwhy not try and get yourself setup with the leaked diablo release?10:08
towoMhm, Mass Effect on the N810.10:08
johnxtowo, through vnc? :P10:09
SargunI've learned that's a bad idea10:09
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Sargunespecially as I don't only use my device for fun10:10
SargunI use it for profit.10:10
johnxhow comfortable are you with the linux CLI?10:10
towojohnx: Well, I guess SecuROM would capsize that, shirley.10:11
Sargunjohnx, I'm a Linux sysadmin :-)10:11
Sargunjohnx, Why?10:12
towo… well, you could still be a SuSE clickee. ;)10:12
johnxSargun, just clone copy of chinook to SD, boot from that and update that to diablo10:12
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johnxno more risk of messing up your install on the internal flash and you can see if the AGPS makes enough of a difference10:13
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DekaritaeJust got my first tablet, an N80010:41
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johnxalready updated to the latest OS2008?10:44
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DekaritaeNo, the Application Manager can't refresh the package list10:48
DekaritaeI found a few reasons why this might be, will try them when less tired10:48
johnxNokia doesn't publish updates to the OS through app manager (repositories) yet. If you're still on OS2007, you need to flash to the latest OS2008 release10:49
DekaritaeOh, I have OS2008, but there are OS updates10:50
DekaritaeWith that, it's a dependency issue. Something about python10:51
Jaykiei guess you mean application updates? :)10:53
DekaritaeAlso I can't install from .install files from, it hangs while downloading.10:53
Jaykienot OS itself?10:53
johnxYou'll want to look at the log in app manager to see which repo is failing to update10:54
DekaritaeYes. When less tired10:54
johnxfair enough :)10:54
DekaritaeAlso I forgot the charging cable when I bought the n800 ($150 on CL), so it's currently charging off my earpiece's AC, at like 100 mAh10:55
DekaritaeMy goal for tomorrow is to get Sunrise XP working with FBReader10:57
johnxmight be easier to just use cron+wget10:58
DekaritaeI like Sunrise XP10:58
johnxfbreader copes with html10:58
tank-manwebhttrack is another option10:58
DekaritaeI already use it with Plucker on my Zodiac, I don't want to change my setup too much10:58
DekaritaeThinking to have it output the plucker files to an archive folder and then use SyncBack to copy the files to FBReader's library when it detects a card available10:59
johnxseems reasonable, you could just rsync them to your tablet over wireless periodically too11:00
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DekaritaeNah, I have... issues around that.11:01
DekaritaeMy home network is 802.11n because something near here just clobbers b/g signals11:01
DekaritaeI suppose I could try Bluetooth networking from the tablet11:02
johnxif you do, look up maemo-pan11:02
DekaritaeOr build a faraday cage11:02
DekaritaeIs there an app repository that provides the .deb files for applications?11:04
DekaritaeI can install those11:04
johnxthe .install files contain that info11:04
johnxjust save and open in a text editor11:05
DekaritaeWell, this one isn't obvious11:05
DekaritaeI can't figure out where in the directory structure I'd find the binaries11:06
JaffaMorning, all11:06
johnxDekaritae, yes, then pool/4.0/free11:07
DekaritaeAhh. I was looking at 4.111:07
johnxpool is where .debs live, dist is where indexes live11:07
johnx4.0 is chinook, the current release11:07
johnx4.1 is diablo, the release coming "real soon now" (tm)11:08
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DekaritaeIs that the one with KDE?11:08
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huatsmoring everyone11:09
DekaritaeOk happy now. I think I can fix most of my problems from this11:10
johnxDekaritae, nah, the KDE thing isn't done by Nokia, it's done by a user here named penguinbait11:10
DekaritaeAh, oki.11:10
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Italodancemorning hrw :D11:19
Italodancei want some new cool games for my n800  someone knows?11:20
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DekaritaeItalodance: Install the Garnet VM, and get the PDAMill game packs11:26
DekaritaeAll their Palm games are now freeware11:26
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lardmanmorning all11:38
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JaykieDekaritae: have you tested those games? how are they working with GVM and which resolution game should i choose?11:40
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trickie_lardman: howdy11:44
hrwJaykie: 320x480 ones if possible11:46
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Jaykieok thx...gotta try it later today11:47
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lardmanhey trickie_, hrw11:54
hrwhi lardman11:55
hrwlardman: where you were at Saturday?11:55
gomiam"and... do you have someone who can confirm it?"11:55
lardmanhrw: I was sight seeing11:56
hrwlardman: I have to do it once finally11:56
lardmanhrw: I only planned to come for the one day11:56
hrwit was my 3rd trip to berlin11:56
lardmanhrw: Holly would have killed me if I'd abandoned her for another day :) plus we had to check in at the airport in the afternoon, so was a short and busy day11:56
lardmanSo what happened over the rest of the week?11:58
lardmanwiki sprint?11:59
trickie_nah, that died in the ass11:59
* lardman is checking email backlog - was at a wedding all weekend too11:59
hrwI did not attent wiki sprint - I did not read emails during LT11:59
lardmantrickie_: ah well11:59
lardmanhrw: nor did I11:59
trickie_i got there earlyish on friday morn, but not too many bodies around11:59
trickie_had a chat to dneary about some things11:59
trickie_but not too much work was done11:59
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lardmaninteresting post by Josh Soref on 30/05/08 about the bug jar, asking people to tweak their bug reports12:00
ItalodanceDekaritae tnx but i want 3D games like hexen duke ........12:07
johnxItalodance, all the ones I know about are listed on itt or pupnik.de12:07
lardmanpupnik: have you put your demo up?12:08
lardmanpupnik: whatever you were going to present that is12:09
Italodancejohnx  wow it's real?12:13
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Italodancepupnik hi are u there/?12:15
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lardman~seen pupnik12:18
infobotpupnik is currently on #maemo. Has said a total of 3 messages. Is idling for 5h 55m 6s, last said: 'i do'.12:18
lardman:) interesting last words12:18
trickie_he he12:19
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floriangood morning12:23
lardmanhas anyone done a summary of the LinuxTag talks?12:25
lardmanI was thinking of linking to mine from the wiki page12:25
Italodancewhat's this game ?12:26
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lardman for anyone interested12:29
X-FadeI have some raw voice files of most of the presentations. But it takes a lot of work to get them processed and online.12:30
Aveyay dsp vorbis12:31
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Avegood set of slides12:34
Avedid someone from nokia attend the event and/or comment on the issues?12:35
nomisAve: Quim Gil was there, Dunno about other Nokia "officials".12:36
nomisthere were some other Nokia employees as well.12:36
nomisAve: and commented a lot.12:37
ItalodanceNokia employees are here? who?12:37
Aveon linuxtag 200812:37
Aveperhaps here too?12:37
* nomis would bet and looks at the nick list12:37
AveI tried to install tremor vorbisidec and hell if I saw any cpu usage improvement (didn't)12:38
_berto_I'll probably upload my slides somewhere sooner or later, but there's not much to see in them :)12:38
Avestill eats around 15..20 accoding to top12:38
infoboti guess top is not a benchmark12:39
Aveappears not to be12:39
nomisdang, I have troubles mapping nicks to faces again.12:39
hrwnomis: common problem12:40
hrwnomis: it took me two days to notice that jott is jott12:40
nomisI think that I got lardman, but thats easy since he has the same first name as me.12:41
jeddy3is there any word on bug #1028 (powervr opengl drivers)?12:41
jeddy3from linuxtag or otherwise at all from nokia?12:42
nomisjeddy3: yeah: The drivers do exist, it is a legal problem to release them, Nokia-Employees want them released and there was mentioned a specific date (I forgot) to make a definitive statement.12:42
X-FadeKate commented on that a bit in Quim's talk.12:43
jeddy3nomis, ah nice! as long as there is _something_ :)12:43
X-FadeAnd they have confirmed that the acceleration actually works. As we were guessing about that too.12:43
nomisX-Fade: were you at Linuxtag? If so, is there a photo of you online?  ;)12:43
jeddy3X-Fade, much more at ease with the issue already :)12:44
hrwand they also told that drivers have lot of bugs12:44
X-Fadenomis: I was the 2nd speaker. The one before Quim's talk.12:44
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kulveAve: 12-20% is pretty normal for ogg playback with Tremor. With Vorbis, it's 30% or something, iirc12:45
nomisok, got you  :)12:45
trickie_i think they said a definative statement on powervr before that maemo conference/day in sept...12:46
X-FadeNo pictures, I hope? :)12:46
nomisX-Fade: the power of google:
keesjX-Fade: I did get you on there12:46
X-FadeAh yes, that one ;)12:46
X-FadeMe in front of the Petronas towers..12:47
Avekulve: really? that'd mean that mogg uses tremor as well12:48
kulveAve: afaik, yes it does12:48
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Avekulve: turns out I've used your packages but the "internal player" stopped indexing ogg files, sigh..12:49
Aveon other note, is it possible to use/see vorbis metadata at all?12:49
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Aveyouamp does make use of it but I dont know if it uses the metadata crawler stuff at all12:49
kulveAve: The meta crawler can read some (like 2%) of the meta datas. I don't know why it doesn't read the rest. Nokia doesn't bother to reply to the bugs.12:51
Averelated to utf perhaps? or non-ascii chars12:52
Avea wild guess12:52
kulveI don't think so as it could show e.g. 1 song from the whole album even if they all contains only ascii.12:52
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Italodanceumm is it for Jagged Alliance 2  ?
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X-Faderm_you: poke, poke..13:02
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ItalodanceDekaritae tnx13:02
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Italodancegold can works too?13:06
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kpelhi all13:08
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* lardman reads the backlog13:18
lardmanAve: re Tremor, tremor is better than libvorbis, but then tremor is all that't used so you won't see an improvement13:19
lardmanAve: Bluez, specifically the sbc part had some optimisations which might produce cpu savings13:20
lardmanwas interesting to hear from Kate that the PowerVR drivers are pretty messy; but at least we know there's no hw limitation that stops them from working :)13:21
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mgedminhi, lardman13:23
lardmanhi mgedmin13:23
simboss_guys quick question: I have an n800 with os2008, the external  mmc should be /dev/mmcblk0  and map to /media/mmc2 by default?13:26
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gomiamnope, it maps to mmc113:26
* gomiam checks13:26
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simboss_gomiam: that's what I thought, but it does not look like so, I have done sfdisk -l /dev/mmcblk0 and it is 2gb more or less, moreover mount -a says that /dev/mmcblk0 is mounted on /media/mmc213:28
somanhi,, is Maemo garage is up.. i could and checkout from garage.. it says 403:forbidden13:28
gomiamyeah, mmmcblk0 is mounted on /media/mmc2. But mmcblk0 is the internal slot :-)13:28
simboss_gomiam: I do not remember how big the internal slot is13:29
Avelardman: mh ok, I'd be interested in doing some hacking(on N810) come summer13:29
X-Fadesoman: What are you trying to do?13:29
Avecurrently I'm tied in other er crap13:29
X-Fadesoman: It seems to work for me.13:30
somanim want to check out my project trunk13:30
mgedminsimboss_: both SD slots are full-size on a n80013:30
X-Fadesoman: Ok, let me check..13:30
somanX-Fade: it says "PROPFIND request failed "13:30
X-Fadesoman: Which project?13:30
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somanX-Fade: PROPFIND of '/svn/lahiri': 403 Forbidden (
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lardmanAve: cool,  give me a shout then13:31
X-Fadesoman: I see it too. Just a moment.13:32
Avelardman: will do13:32
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X-Fadesoman: Can you try now?13:34
X-FadeShould be fixed.13:34
somanX-Fade: yeah... got it... thanks.. what was the probelm13:35
minti_X-Fade: yes got it... Thanks13:35
X-Fadesoman: We just updated garage and you must have seen this during the switch.13:35
X-Fademinti_: ?13:36
minti_i was tring same13:36
X-FadeAh ;)13:36
minti_me and soman r woking 2gather13:37
somanX-Fade: Thanks anyway,13:37
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X-FadeNo problem.13:37
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_berto_hi, is the SSL certificate from affected by the debian openssl vulnerability ?13:41
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Mikhowould somebody know what these "Compatibility levels before 4 are deprecated" messages mean in the end of the output after running a make deb command?13:44
simbossguys: is it feasible to use anexternal mmc to extend root partition?13:44
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mgedminMikho: debhelper13:45
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mgedminit checks the compatibility level in debian/compat and changes its behaviour to keep compatibility with old packages13:46
_berto_X-Fade: you there ?13:46
MikhoI see13:46
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Mikhohm, there's no debian/compat file13:46
mgedmincould be that I misremembered13:48
mgedminor maybe the lack of debian/compat implies level 1, which is certainly before level 4 :-)13:49
mgedminI'm not an expert in packaging; debhelper's documentation ought to have these things explained13:49
Mikho'm looking for the documentation atm =)13:50
lardmanmgedmin: another thing to add to the "debian packaging for maemo developers" wiki page? ;)13:50
Mikhoah, found13:50
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mgedmindunno, maybe, in a FAQ section somewhere13:51
mgedminyou don't have to use debhelper in your debian packages; it13:51
mgedminit's just one of the more popular tools13:51
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MikhoIt seems all I need to do is to echo 4 in debian/compat13:52
hrwdoes not debian/compat obsolete?13:54
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Mikhoah, but now I have to conform to the newest compability level13:58
DekaritaeSorry, I have a stupid question.13:59
DekaritaeHow do I eject the card in the external SD slot on the n800?13:59
mgedminopen the cover, wait a bit, then pull out the card13:59
mgedminif you open the cover and get an info popup saying "memory card in use", then DONT'T pull out the card14:00
DekaritaeOk. How do I pull it out?14:00
mgedminIIRC there's no "now safe to remove memory card" popup...14:00
mgedminah, that14:00
mgedmingrow a long fingernail14:00
mgedminthere's no spring :(14:00
DekaritaeCard was a microSD adaptor, lacking the inset edge14:03
DekaritaeNew card is better, yay14:04
DekaritaeNCIX has a sale on14:04
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mgedminmmm, 16 gb14:06
Dekaritaemmm, 32 gb14:07
DekaritaeEr. I bought two.14:07
mgedmindarn, n810 has only a minisd slot14:07
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Dekaritaelcuk: I may move one back into my Zodiac once dmitry releases his Palm SDHC driver14:08
lcukwell before that you could move one into my device :) i pwomise ill return it when you need it ;)14:08
lcuki feel inadequate with my 1gb card14:09
Avedont worry, it's how you use it14:09
DekaritaeYou should. I fould one in my cereal the other day14:09
lcukwell 2.5mb of it has been used for sketches :)  thats quite a healthy amount of home made data14:10
AveI got 4gb minisd for relatively cheap the other day..14:10
Avesdhc even14:10
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lcuki needed an adapter thing, and the 1gb was all i could find, now i have it when i replace ill just get a bigger micro one14:11
nomisyeah, 16 EUR at (german) Amazon. Class 6.14:11
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nomisah, micro sdhc btw. I got some micro->mini adapters on Ebay.14:12
lardmanI bought a micro sdhc 4Gb (Sandisk) and had to buy another micro 1Gb (Kingston) to get a decent micro->mini adaptor14:13
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Avewhats with the micro hoola, why not just get mini directly?14:15
Avemore expensive?14:15
Avehm ok yeah, mini is quire rare14:15
mgedminyou can put micro sds in devices that accept full sds, mini sds and micro sds14:16
aquatixlardman: i bought some micro-mini adapters at dealextreme14:22
aquatixreally cheap14:22
aquatixand work fine with my 8GB microsd14:22
lardmanwe need a list of which adaptors are know to work/or not14:28
mgedminare there any that don't work?14:31
mgedminthe adapters are just plastic things with metal conductors, right?14:31
mgedminhow can they not work?14:31
gomiammgedmin: they might go on strike14:32
hrwAve: and miniSD are harder to get then microSD14:34
shaprIs microSD the 'smaller than fingernail' sized cards?14:35
* shapr checks wikipedia14:35
glassaka transflash as earlier name before becoming sd standard or something like that..14:36
hrwdepends on size of finger14:36
lardmanmgedmin: sandisk ones don't work14:36
lardmanmgedmin: I also questioned why/how some might not work; I've no idea, but might do an autopsy of my non-working sandisk one and see if there's anything else in there14:37
X-Fadelardman: I have a sandisk. Works fine.14:37
lardmanX-Fade: hmm14:37
lardmanX-Fade: I was just going from the comments in the bugtracker14:38
lardmanI can't remember the bug # off the top of my head14:38
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RST38hEuropeans and other potential enemies of the US are to be forced to deposit their personal details on the Department of Homeland Securitys computer system 72 hours before they get anywhere near the place.14:53
shaprAnd US Citizens get thrown out of Europe :-(14:53
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RST38hReally? =)14:53
somanX-Fade: can you help me where can i get wvdial package for maemo...14:54
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JaffaWow, #303 has had an internal alias assigned to it. W00t!14:59
X-FadeHeh, my hotel room for LinuxTag was #303 ;)14:59
RST38hwhat is bug #303?15:00
mgedmin24 hour clock15:00
SargunI need a ntp clock too15:00
mgedminyes pls15:00
mgedminor at least a gps clock15:00
Sargunor the clock should fscking pull from GPS15:00
mgedminif it's 3 pm, and I change the timezone, it means I traveled somewhere else where it is NOT 3 pm right now15:01
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Jaffamgedmin: Gotta love the "UI spec"15:02
RST38hGiven how screwed up GPS is, I would vote for NTP15:02
RST38hBTW, changing GPS approximate location when changing time zone may be a good idea15:03
X-FadeI don't think you need a fix to get GPS time.15:03
RST38hWhy have a separate app when you can tie things to that clock map15:03
mgedminhow about also changing the timezone when you get a GPS fix?15:04
mgedminthe database could be tricky...15:04
Sargunmgedmin, they already have a db...15:05
mgedminoh, do they?15:05
andre___Jaffa: the internal alias for #303 doesn't mean that much. in fact the internal bug is closed15:05
mgedminI don't think it's enough to find the closest city and take that timezone; you could be on the other side of a border15:06
andre___Jaffa, but it seems there's some progress for fremantle to get #303 fixed.15:06
andre___i'm just trying to clean up and add aliases wherever it makes sense to me to easier track things15:07
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Jaffaandre___: ok, thanks for the info. Any chance that kind of stuff could end up in Bugzilla? (Not that I don't appreciate being told it somehow ;-))15:08
JaffaAll part of the "working in the open" idea15:08
andre___Jaffa, it's on my "nags to do" list15:08
somanWhere can i find wvdial for maemo15:08
lardmanmgedmin: hear hear to the changing time zones one :)15:08
Jaffaandre___: cool15:09
andre___Jaffa: well, i of course also want openness whenever possible. if there's nothing secret with a bug it doesn't make sense to me at all to handle it in the internal bugtracker15:09
* mgedmin searches for a bug number15:09
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andre___Jaffa, but this also means that the workflows of some people will have to change, and that will be the interesting and tough task15:09
mgedminwhat, no bug?15:09
lardmanRST38h: lots of location things we could do once we see whether Diablo allows us to talk to the chipset15:09
mgedminnobody reported it?15:09
andre___file me a bug :)15:10
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* mgedmin takes the opportunity to comment that #1139 was fixed by the opera -> microb switch15:12
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mgedminandre___: here you are:
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andre___mgedmin, ah thanks! and feel free to close #1139 as wontfix or something like that :)15:18
mgedminI think I'll let timeless have the pleasure of doing that15:18
andre___haha, or /me, ok :)15:19
RST38hlardman: it will not15:20
RST38hlardman: you don't need to wait for this information15:20
RST38hlardman: what you will see is an approximate user-selected location stored somewhere in the filesystem15:20
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herwooddoes anybody know where can I find osso-log.h -file?15:27
herwoodyeah, I tried, but didn't find the header file15:27
herwoodwhich package is it possibly in?15:28
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mgedminwe need, just like and packages.ubuntu.org15:28
mgedminanyone want to add that to the 100days wiki?15:28
red-zacknoone needs ubuntu.packages15:28
herwoodRST38h: thanks15:28
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RST38hmgedmin: have you tried going to in your browser?15:29
herwoodI suppose that I just can't use google.. :(15:29
mgedminheh, guess :-)15:29
RST38hherwood: try nightly human sacrifice15:29
mgedminit doesn't have a search by filename15:29
mgedminon the front page15:29
RST38hmgedmin: I have already proposed this at the 100Days page and was told by Quim Gil to go do it myself15:30
RST38hmgdemin: Nokia isn't very interested15:30
RST38hmgdemin: Anyway, I have got a UI mockup done and started writing PERL code that fetches package lists from repos15:31
mgedminthe open-source mentality: "send us a patch"15:31
RST38hIf you want to help, let me know15:31
* mgedmin shuffles his feet15:31
RST38hNo, it is not the patch thing, they are just not interested in package aggregators15:31
* lcuk sends mgedmin a H.R.T patch15:31
herwoodthis google's code search is pretty useful15:32
herwoodI haven't heard from it before now..15:32
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lcukif you use normal google to search for code related things (identifiers, apis etc) then code search is normally included in the first page by default15:33
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zappppwhere I should start if I want to write desktop plugins? are there python bindings for this purpose or is C the only way to do these?15:35
lcuki come across it a lot of the time when i am searching - its not all the time and i cant think of a specific to doing it, but it annoys me because it gives .tar.gz file links instead of the single source file15:35
lcukthat gives it..15:36
RST38hzappp: tutorial at maemo.orfg15:37
RST38hbetter not use python for them though =)15:37
lcukoooh and they have fixed the file linkage thing as well15:37
zappppRST38h ok, thanks15:38
somanwhere to get wvstreams library for scratchbox15:38
inzzapppp, there are python bindings, but I would say go for native C plugin anyway15:39
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mgedminandre___: what would you say is the correct product & component for filing a bug about the sqlite3 source package in maemo?15:45
mgedmindevelopment platform/tools?15:45
andre___hmm, i'd think so15:47
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minti_i am installing  libqt4 package  using apt-get install inside scratchbox  it says broken package...16:06
minti_how can install  the same16:06
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GAN800I'm ao tired of applications not doing what I tell them to.17:04
GAN800MicroB shouldn't pull focus from another application two or three times when it's in the background.17:04
GAN800I shouldn't have to press the fullscreen button two or three times to get it to stick.17:05
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GAN800The Application Manu shouldn't become state-retarded when the RSS applet is on.17:06
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infobotGAN800 meant: The Application Menu shouldn't become state-retarded when the RSS applet is on.17:06
hrwthe maemo should not suxx so much etc?17:06
GAN800dneary, how much closer are  we to the wiki move? :p17:08
JaffaGAN800: agreed on all those points.17:08
JaffaJavaScript/refreshing web apps seem the worst for microb stealing focus17:08
* GAN800 should probably file a couple more bugs for MicroB, anyway.17:09
GAN800Applications stealing focus is spmething that pisses me off on most all platforms. If I want an application in front, I'll out it there, thanks. It's just worse with Matchbox17:10
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GAN800#2797 has caused no end of grief. Nice to see there might be some progress at some point.17:14
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GAN800Howdy, johnx17:16
GAN800Still no planet. . . .17:17
johnxp.m.o? it's available from a subdir on m.o17:18
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GAN800That's not my point. :P17:18
johnxkinda figured :P17:19
GAN800lot of people have as their bookmark and assume the whole site is down when that doesn't worl.17:21
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johnxyeah, I should actually just change my bookmark at this point17:21
johnxI've been assuming it will be fixed "any day now" for the last week or so...17:21
GAN800There's a bug, it's being worked on.17:22
GAN800ISP IP stupidity or somesuch.17:22
johnxNokia needs to *shoot* whoever is the ISP for and the firmware host...17:23
dnearyGAN800Let me get my breath back from last week :) We will be switching definitively before the end of the week17:23
dnearyI'm still snowed under with paperwork17:23
GAN800johnx, sipposedly improvements are coming.17:24
* GAN800 shovels recycled newspapers onto dneary.17:24
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GAN800Hrm, 22-8 is out, where's my guinea pig?17:25
johnxsure, I'll give it a shot17:25
hrwdneary, GAN800: what do we do with installation instructions? I wrote ones when new wiki was started and now all I could find was that ugly one from old wiki17:25
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johnxinstallation instructions for what now?17:26
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hrw'how to flash nokia under linux/windows/osx'17:27
hrwthose ones17:27
GAN800hrw, check 'my contributions'. Personally, I'm waiting until after the move to really get to work.17:27
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johnxGAN800, installs, boots17:31
johnxwant me to test something?17:32
GAN800nah, just that. ;)17:32
johnxah, and e-mail works fine17:32
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GAN800johnx, think I can rope you into updating the version number for Modest (22-1) on wikipedia while I'm going down for this thing? :p17:34
ItalodanceGREAT NEW ITALODANCE CDM : DJ_Torny_Feat_Marco-Now_Until_Forever-(ARC_055)-WEB-2008-eMF :D cheers!17:35
johnxGAN800, sure17:35
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pupnikItalodance: pcsx emulator runs but is unplayably slow.  the picture is from 'Baldur's Gate II'17:36
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Italodancehi pupnik  how are ya? :ö17:38
* qwerty12 knew trying to use svn in windows would suck. off to reboot into linux. yes, i'm a troll that comes for one second and goes. and comes back.17:38
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Italodancepupnik 'Baldur's Gate II'is really a good game  any chance for run?17:38
pupnikthe GemRB engine to play Bioware games is not finished.  Leveling-Up is not yet implemented. Channel #gemrb to find out more.17:40
Italodancepupnik btw which version is for Jagged Alliance 2 ?  Gold Edition?17:40
mgedmingood article about one of the ways open source works:
pupnikI am checking Italodance17:42
glasspsx baldurs gate is a hack'em'up action game, no?17:43
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johnxGAN800, someone already beat me to putting the new modest version in it appears. O_o17:43
johnxwell, also it wasn't updated I guess. still 22-117:43
RST38hAll righty, I have made a script that takes a list of repositories and sucks all the package information from them17:44
RST38hAnybody has a machien with MySQL that I could use? =)17:44
Italodancepupnik  tnx pupnik  :D17:44
johnxRST38h, machine with SQL? you've got a tablet, right?17:44
GAN800Ha, or just me making a typo on the lasy version, johnx. :D17:45
johnxGA wins while failing17:45
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GAN800except for the date. :p17:46
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ItalodanceWB qwerty12 ;)17:47
pupnikItalodance: apparently CyberCat on ITT forums is running the 'gold' version.  Also see
qwerty12Italodance, hello :)17:47
Italodancepupnik thank u again  is it full screen and also with DEMOs ?17:47
pupnikyes there is a demo version.  fullscreen works too17:48
GAN800Hehe, itTSS is getting as bad a reception on the 100 Days as anywhere else.17:48
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RST38hjohnx: this is not going to work on a tablet17:50
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GAN800To those of you who didn't see my spam last night:
johnxRST38h, I was just kidding, actually :P17:51
lardmanlcuk: Where's your note taking app, I'm salivating at the thought of playing with it :)17:52
hrwlardman: not only you17:53
GAN800Yeah, lcuk, release early, release often!17:53
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hrwI can package it17:53
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RST38hSo, anybody willing to let me use a MySQL server? =)17:55
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jeroinyes, for 5 EUR a day17:56
RST38hOh well17:56
lardmanRST38h: I just saw your comment about the user defined location, good good17:57
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johnxRST38h, why not talk to gronmayer?17:57
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RST38hlardman: which one?17:57
RST38hjohnx: Well, I do not know Gronmayer personally17:57
RST38hAnd anyway, it only took 30 minutes to throw together a crawler in PERL17:58
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johnxjust saying he might be interested...17:58
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lardmanRST38h: about the AGPS17:58
GAN800RSS feed for recentchanges on maemowiki gives me 'Unable to add feed. Address invalid.'17:59
RST38hlardman: ah, that one...17:59
RST38hjohnx: I am kind of pessimistic on collaboration of this kind17:59
RST38hjohnx: Most people hgave their own agendas so they do not generally give a fuck18:00
hrwRST38h: use sqlite?18:00
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RST38hhrw: I have full blown mysql installed on Komkon, but am kind of afraid to enable it18:00
johnxRST38h, anyways, what does your script do? generate a nice web page with package name and description?18:01
RST38hThe machine serves a lot of people and mysql may make it unsafe and/or harm performance18:01
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RST38hjohnx: Ideally - keeps a list of repos in the database. Scans these repos regularly, downloads package lists and stores them in the database. Gives you a nice tablet-browsable interfaces that let you search download and install any package from any repository18:02
andre____GAN800, file bugs (website component)! ;-)18:02
RST38hjohnx: Kind of like an uber-AppManager (without keeping track of installed packages of course)18:02
johnxdoes it generate a .install file too?18:03
RST38hIt will18:03
GAN800Aw, andre___, but I wanted to poke X-Fade directly. :( :p18:03
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andre____GAN800, that's also a possibility of course :)18:04
andre____i just want things to get handled. don't really care about the path taken to get it fixed actually :-P18:04
GAN800and I also wanted to get a more meaningful error message from a real computer, but will do. ;)18:04
qwerty12Computer says no.18:05
johnxRST38h, I'll think about it. I have a webhost with SQL, but I really don't have much space or bandwidth to play with18:05
Italodancepupnik are you still around?18:07
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mgedminand to think that we had the opportunity to get lcuk drunk, steal his n810, and copy the source code for his magic program...18:15
mgedminand we didn't think of it in time18:15
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hrwRST38h: look at
hrwRST38h: it is php based, can fetch remote repositories and extract data from it18:17
hrwRST38h: source is in OpenEmbedded metadata18:18
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RST38hhrw: yep18:31
RST38hhrw: has anyone tried using it on maemo so far?18:31
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hrwRST38h: no, but amount of changes would not be too big probably18:32
keesjuber app manager that manage pesonal repotyroties for users?18:33
keesjgwt based?18:33
RST38hwhat is gwt?18:33
keesjgoogle widget toolkit18:33
RST38hkeesj <-- obviously using n810 "keyboard"18:33
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dougtdoes anyone know much about the gps on the n810?  is calling  gps_open() enough to get thing started up?  right not  gps_open() against the localhost and default port is returning null.18:34
RST38hno, I am also just using PHP, same as openembedded thing18:34
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lcukto all those folks who want my program, please pay me gazillions of dollar/euro/pounds etc and i will sing the code at the next mic i see ;)18:43
RST38hlcuk: Will you use pulse modulation?18:44
qwerty12nah, the Manchurian accent would put me off18:44
GAN800Bad open source citizen. :p18:44
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RST38hcitizen of WHAT? =)18:44
johnxMaemoland maybe?18:45
GAN800Open source. ;)18:45
lcuknot at all gan, it costs a lot of money to have singing lessons and for all the beer i will need before doing public anything again18:45
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RST38hIs that imaginary country Bruce Perens lives in?18:45
micsing me the code lcuk18:45
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RST38h[and Eric Raymond too]18:46
lardmandneary: was it you or X-Fade who was asking me if I was going to blog about my presentation?18:46
lardmaneither way, I've put some notes up:
* qwerty12 wishes ff 3 did word wrap18:47
lardmanqwerty12: I just noticed that, sorry18:47
qwerty12"There is the obvious problem that someone will remove the legal warning, " - *cough* done *cough*18:48
qwerty12For chinook and diablo versions :p18:48
jerointhis works with navicore btw great if you ever are lost in the woods ;)18:48
lardmanqwerty12: indeed, but it's not the sort of thing to make Nokia happy about it all18:48
qwerty12emjayes has a script that spoofs the mac on each startup of the Map app18:48
jeroinmacchanger yes, but i rather keep my mac address the same18:49
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jeroinlol i remember flexlm on SGI worked similar18:49
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qwerty12lardman, I think it's incredibly stupid. My Pocket PC doesn't do it. Hell, even a Cybiko Extreme I had once didn't do it. I don't mind seeing the warning once but repeatedly just pisses me off.18:50
qwerty12So if Nokia don't like it, not my problem ;)18:50
inzlardman, why does it say "open it up and let us play" about application manager?18:50
qwerty12(I thank Nokia for providing source btw)18:50
lardmanqwerty12: yes, I understand, but I can also see if from Nokia's point of view - it's not our software, if it's rubbish don't blame us, etc.18:50
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lardmaninz: true, we have that now don't we18:51
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inzlardman, for quite a while18:51
johnxan "I understand, now never show me this message again" checkbox would be nice...18:51
jeroinrepetition is good to convince someone about your argument18:52
jeroinrepetition is good to convince someone about your argument18:52
qwerty12or rule of 318:52
qwerty12really, really, really?18:52
hrwbye all18:52
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lardmaninz: I lose track of what's been released and when18:52
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lardmanhrw|gone: c u18:52
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dnearylardman: Me18:53
dnearylardman: Thanks!18:53
jeroinArgumentum ad nauseam... but it works;)18:53
johnxright, which is why the new Windows UAC is such a resounding success with security critics...18:53
jeroinor, some kind of mode where you're on your own (like the pill mode)18:54
jeroinwell, UAC just shifts the blame to the user, as does sudo ;)18:54
jeroinUAC was inspired by sudo i'm pretty sure;)18:54
GAN800Yes, lardman, that was mine. ;)
WorkingOnWiseUAC was inspired by my naggy 10yo niece18:55
qwerty12I'm still not sure what policykit does for me what I couldn't do myself by typing in root password.18:55
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johnxWorkingOnWise, nah, she'd get tired of asking eventually I bet18:55
WorkingOnWiseoh god O wish it were true johnx! The kid makes the energizer bunny look like a dud!18:56
qwerty12GAN800, Will vote. Those images look sexy.18:56
jeroingreat imrpvoement18:56
GAN800qwerty12, there's a thread on the devel list that's rather optimistic to go with that bug.18:57
johnx++ to tree and column18:57
qwerty12GAN800, Thanks, I'll check out the "archives" later :)18:57
lardmanGAN800: ok, changed, thanks18:57
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GAN8001GAN800 == GeneralAntilles.18:58
lardmanand GAN8001 != GAN800 ?18:58
SDuensinGAN8001 == Lucky Newton Owner   :-P18:59
qwerty12I thought you were Gangster Arnold18:59
lardman~lart irc nicks18:59
* infobot gives irc nicks an extra strength ACME sleeping pill, sending irc nicks to sleep for 150 years, and awakening to seven strange dwarfs and a large apple18:59
GAN8001GAN8001 == GeneralAntilles's G4 tower. ;) I've got the clones out in force this week.18:59
GAN8001Would be using my proxy, but Comcast is being retarded.18:59
qwerty12Meh, UK isps are retarded. Most of them throttle my torrents :(. Much faster using my RS premium :/19:00
GAN8001Comcast is the worst for everything.19:00
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johnxthey were actually decent to me a year ago...guess I fled at just the right time19:01
jeroinrent a server, torrent there, download from there, no need for upload;019:01
qwerty12I'm sorry, but something here makes me laugh: ...19:01
GAN8001jeroin, yeah, if you've got the cash to throw around. ;)19:03
qwerty12Which you don't if you use torrents :p19:03
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qwerty12goddam, cegcc = longest svn checkout ever. still counting...19:03
WorkingOnWiseoh oh oh..where can I find jpilot ported to the Nxxx series? I checked the threads on ITT but after 298,098 posts, I think they are all about jpilot on the desktop....19:03
jeroinwell its not my problem anyway but if it were i'd def find a way around it hehe19:05
qwerty12My friend gave me a way, a RS premium... :p19:05
jeroinhere cable competes pretty well with dsl telcos, for the time being that is19:05
dougtlardman: ping?19:08
lardmandougt: pong19:09
dougthey lardman.  been searching maemo irc log.  you were doing some stuff with gps.  got a sec?  or can I send you an email?19:10
lardmandougt: ask away19:10
dougton the n810, i would like to use the gps, but couldn't figure out how to enable the gps programmatically.  I was looking for the mapping application, but it just seams to open /dev/pgps.19:11
dougthow do you setup the internal gps on the n810, is probably the specific q.19:12
lardmanI think it's handled by libgpsmgr19:12
dougtvia dbus?19:12
lardmanI don't know the specifics of what libgpsmgr does after you call it, but it's open source iirc19:13
lardmanI think maemo-mapper uses this technique too, as to use the internal gps you select a BT connection but put no ID (name?) number in19:13
dougtyeah, i am just not sure If your suppose to call it directly or use dbus.19:13
lardmanlink to libgpsmgr19:14
dougtcall gpsmgr_start() or whatever.19:14
dougti will give that a shot.19:14
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lardmantake a look at maemo mapper too, specifically what happens when you use BT but don't put a MAC/ID whatever number in19:15
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lardmanThere was also some gps-logger test code somewhere wasn't there? Anyone have a link to that?19:16
kulveliblocation is the easiest API to use the GPS19:19
kulveassuming one is using glib19:19
mgedminthere are two libs: libgpsmgr and libgpsbt19:20
kulvedougt: hilite ^19:20
mgedminI think one of those wraps the other19:20
kulvemgedmin: liblocation uses them19:20
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dougtkulve: that is great.19:21
dougti am going to give that a try.19:21
kulveI've used it. It's very easy and quite convenient19:21
dougt(and on a side note, does the acquisition time on this device just really suck?)19:21
kulvenot very detailed though but it's enough for most normal applications19:21
kulvedougt: yes19:21
kulvedougt: somebody claimed that the next sw version has AGPS so that might improve the situation a lot19:22
dougtwifi->location would be tons faster.19:22
qwerty111It does have agps19:22
qwerty111I've posted a pic of the app in the diablo therad19:22
kulveqwerty111: yeah, I guess I was referring to you with my "somebody" ;)19:22
lardmanqwerty111: how do you give it a location?19:22
qwerty111lardman, just tap a point on the map19:23
qwerty111I guess to your nearest city19:23
lardmanthe normal map app, or a larger scale one?19:23
* lardman looks for the thread19:23
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dougtkulve: what package is location in?19:24
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kulveyep, that and liblocation019:26
lardmanqwerty111: it would be interesting to see whether the conversation that app has with the (presumably) supl server is more than a send location, receive almanac+ephemeris job19:27
lardmanqwerty111: as I'm not sure how accurate one can be with tapping, and was wondering whether the supl server then uses any fragmentary data the chipset can send it to produce a quicker/more accurate fix19:28
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qwerty111lardman, I know nothing about the specifics :/. I removed it after taking that screenie, I only have N80019:28
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qwerty111Svn sucks.19:28
lardmanqwerty111: ah, not to worry19:28
lardmanI might have to try un upgrade myself then19:29
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jldiazany recommendation for a good calendar for maemo?19:34
* mgedmin wants to know too19:35
johnxI like dates, but it's pretty minimal19:35
mgedminthe development of Dates seems to have stopped19:35
johnxgpe-calendar seems pretty complete and usable19:35
kulvesorry, finnish only:älypuhelimia/113523688237619:35
jldiazin particular, I would like to synchronize with google calendar, and being able to consult my appointments offline19:35
jldiazI tried dates, and liked it too19:36
mgedmindates can do that, I think19:36
jldiazit allows to import ical format19:36
johnxmight want to look at mcalendar then for google calendar sync19:36
mgedminno recurring events, iirc19:36
jldiazbut I would like to automate somewhat the process19:36
jldiazkind of "on wlan up, download my calendars from google and update the local calendar"19:37
qwerty111dbus-scripts lets you run programs on connection19:37
jldiazI don't mind to write myself this synchronization tool, but I would require a calendar app which could be scriptable,19:37
mgedminis /etc/ifup.d/ used on maemo?19:37
mgedminerr, /etc/networking/ifup.d/19:38
jldiazyes, qwerty111, I was thinking of that19:38
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jldiazI write a python script which registers itself for notification on wlan up19:38
qwerty111mgedmin, don't think so. icd2 doesn't use /etc/network/interfaces at least.19:38
jldiazand downloads the calendars from google19:38
jldiazbut I need a local calendar application which I can command from python19:38
jldiazso I can tell it: "take the calendar files at /home/user/blah, and import them"19:39
jldiazfrom a python script19:39
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jldiazmy first tough was to patch dates19:40
jldiazadding this functionality19:40
jldiazhowever, I'm unable to compile dates in the scratchbox19:40
jldiazit requires a "libecal" which i can't found19:40
jldiazso, I'm thinking now in gpe-calendar, but apt-get install gives a huge list of prerequisites, and scared me19:41
jldiazI'm ever considering to use remind, the command-line tool19:41
jldiazis it ported to maemo?19:42
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GAN800On the note of the Application category view, if anybody wants more mockups, those were fun, so I'd be willing to do more (or take requests).19:42
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mgedminsearch on is slooooow :(19:54
lcuksorry for vanishing - work got in the way - lardman, since you told me you were salivating xchat has been bobbing balloons up telling me, so if you salivate any more we will all flood19:56
qwerty111I hated that libnotify stuff in xchat, turned it off >.<19:56
lcuki keep missing hits from pms19:57
lcukthey turned red but nothing would be noticed for hours19:57
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* qwerty111 plans on looking at this for the wired headset :
qwerty111Or this even20:02
summatusmentiswhy do my parents never keep any food in the house? :-/20:03
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qwerty111Because you'll eat it and finish it off and that = another trip to supermarket :P20:04
GAN8001My parents do the same thing. :P20:04
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summatusmentissee, but the point of food is to eat it20:05
summatusmentisand when they don't have any, one can't eat it20:05
GAN8001They don't care20:05
GAN8001They survive on your suffering. :P20:05
summatusmentisthey're my parents! they should care20:05
summatusmentis*sigh* I guess it's miso&tofu ramen for lunch20:05
GAN8001It holds them over just fine until you fold and go to the grocery store.20:05
qwerty111Go down to the local takeaway :p20:05
summatusmentisqwerty111: I live in a town of 60020:06
qwerty111here, I know about at least 15 that are near me20:06
qwerty111summatusmentis, unlucky20:06
summatusmentiswe don't have any of those... there's a pizza place up there, but I don't really have any money, and I've had a lot of pizza20:06
GAN8001Go whore yourself for cash.20:06
summatusmentisever been to rural maine? one, noone has cash, two, noone is attractive20:07
qwerty111GAN8001, Is that what I saw you doing y/day night?20:07
qwerty111Me, i'ma pimp :p20:07
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GAN8001What are you doing in the US, qwerty111? :P20:07
summatusmentisqweyou wish :)20:07
qwerty111GAN8001, Looking out for people like you :p20:07
qwerty111US = no120:07
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qwerty111summatusmentis, I got my girls to prove it :P20:08
GAN8001What the hell am I looking for on the maemowiki?20:08
johnxGAN8001, qwerty111's hoes?20:08
GAN8001No, that's not it.20:08
qwerty111I tried uploading the TONS of pics I have but the server nearly crashed out on me20:09
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GAN8001It saw how ugly they were and died.20:09
GAN8001Ah, right, the broken RSS20:09
qwerty111GAN8001, Dont be a h8er (or a h0e) :p. just because I can get some yeh :p20:10
summatus_n810qwerty111: your mom deosn't count as 'one of yourngirls'20:10
summatus_n810s/yourngirls/your girls/20:10
infobotsummatus_n810 meant: qwerty111: your mom deosn't count as 'one of your girls'20:10
qwerty111summatus_n810, Who said anything bout my mom? Ask your mom about those condoms you found :p20:10
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Navioh snap20:11
summatus_n810who finds condoms? do you root through your moms stuff all the time?20:12
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qwerty111yes in that case ^20:12
Anunakinhey can any ... give me a mac addr.... to download firmware for N800 ?20:13
summatus_n810lol! you're quick20:13
Navisudo find -name "condom"20:13
summatus_n810and not very satisfactory, from what I hear20:13
johnxAnunakin, any particular reason you need the n800 stuff?20:13
AnunakinI just wanna try N800 Emulator on my PC!!!20:14
qwerty111Anunakin, - How are your reading skills?20:14
johnxI would assume the n810 firmware would work, though I could be wrong...20:14
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qwerty111Should do, N810 rootfs is same as N80020:15
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GAN8001andre____, :P20:15
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Anunakina crash...20:16
qwerty111Anunakin, - How are your reading skills?20:16
Anunakinok ...20:16
qwerty111Repeated :p20:16
AnunakinI tried N810 FW... but not works20:16
qwerty111Here's one better20:16
qwerty111Add 2 letters, 1 number and one letter20:17
qwerty111Navi, Ladies first ;)20:17
qwerty111Here's one I just "made": 00194F9EDD2D20:17
MangoFusionqwerty111: only 2gb? bah ;)20:17
johnxright now my n800 mac address is: 00:02:ee:c0:ff:ee20:18
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Anunakinvery hard to read on this img20:18
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summatus_n810ugh!! we don't even have any milk in this house!20:18
lcuksummatus_n810, we have lots, you want me to email some?20:19
qwerty111EWW! MILK :O20:19
summatus_n810would you please? my parents apparently hate me20:19
lcukyou wouldnt be the first20:19
Anunakinthanks all!20:19
qwerty111Aww, summatus_n810's parents hate him20:19
qwerty111Lets all shed a tear20:19
summatus_n810qwerty111: i agree, generally. but we have chocolate milk mix :-)20:20
qwerty111Aww, now I hate you :P20:20
qwerty111Hardly get any chocolate milk :/20:20
lcukjust eat it dry - put it on your tongue and try to work up some spittle to mix it with20:20
lcukits fun when choc dust comes out of your nose when you try not to cough20:20
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summatus_n810lcuk: then it's chocolate spit, not chocolate milk20:20
lcukbut its chocolate20:21
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summatus_n810sort of20:21
lcukok, brown sugar20:21
qwerty111Meh, the only thing I like coming out of my nose is shisha/hooka20:21
trickiebetter than milk :)20:22
summatus_n810I'm generally of the mind that things generally shouldn't come out of the nose20:22
lcuki suppose if you were desperate enough you could try lactating yourself20:22
qwerty111I tried that with the nearest similar thing I had. It was white but it didn't taste like milk...20:23
summatus_n810over the line qwerty11120:23
qwerty111Thanks :)20:24
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lcukyes i know,what dulux emulsion DOES taste bad20:24
AnunakinNice.... downloading... N800 FW20:24
Anunakinnow I need another think...20:25
GAN8001lardman's just in time for the party20:25
summatus_n810qwerty111: I know you're in a different timezone, but how do you spend all day on irc?20:25
qwerty111lcuk, Dunno about taste but this room was repainted recently and the dulux really does stink :/20:25
X-FadeParty? Party? Where?20:25
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johnxX-Fade, not here O_o20:26
qwerty111summatus_n810, I've only been here a few hours :). School's started again :/20:26
summatus_n810IN MY PANTS!!20:26
lcukback in the art -otel after those nokians left ;)20:26
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summatus_n810qwerty111: ah, ok20:26
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qwerty111~lart svn20:27
* infobot blasts svn with a huge firehose then strangles svn with it20:27
* lcuk must find a delicate balance now between software releases and family life20:27
* GAN8001 pokes X-Fade.20:27
GAN8001Fix it fix it fix it:
summatus_n810lcuk: what are you releasing?20:27
* X-Fade hits GA back with a stick.20:27
GAN8001By the way, who cleaned up the mediawiki URLs?20:27
* GAN8001 runs in circles.20:27
NaviA ninja20:27
GAN8001A URL ninja?20:28
X-FadeI asked Ferenc to put a rewrite rule into place..20:28
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X-FadeNow old style and new style urls work at the same time..20:28
lcuksummatus_n810, if i say nothing i will be shot by people here, if i tell you it wont be right because its a WIP at the moment and needs lots of cleanup before i do release it20:28
* qwerty111 gets the glock ready20:28
X-FadeGAN8001: I can't reproduce that bug? Works for me[tm]?20:29
AnunakinI need this file:20:29
Anunakinssh root@nokia-n800-address cat /dev/mtd1ro > config.mtd20:29
qwerty111No one will give that20:29
summatus_n810lcuk: can you give me a general idea?20:29
qwerty111Because it contains MAC address and stuff for that tablet20:30
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lcuksummatus_n810, its a notetaking app which does fullscreen nice quick refreshes and works faster than paper (TM) ;)20:31
eichihow long does it take to make the n800 full?20:31
AnunakinCan I use mine from N810?20:31
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eichiplugged in with energy20:31
qwerty111Anunakin, Yes, you should be able to20:31
Anunakinbecause FW not works20:32
Navilcuk, zomg20:32
lcukive got about 40 notes with things which should work20:32
Navifastar than ppr?20:32
qwerty111faster than light?20:32
lcukand more findable20:32
AnunakinI go try... with FW from N800 and mtd1ro from N81020:32
eichihow long tages it to charge the n800?20:32
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NaviFindable I'll swing with20:32
qwerty111Anunakin, You know it's broken anyway even with N800 mtd1?20:32
NaviMy backpacks full of crap20:33
lcuknavi, with paper notes i lose them, with this i see them forever and kinetic scroll down them20:33
qwerty111Anyway, bye.20:33
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X-FadeGAN8001: Poke, poke..20:33
dougtsigh...  that location api doesn't actually start up the gps.20:33
lcukpoke 16384,25520:33
GAN8001No lie, X-Fade?20:33
GAN8001Weird. . . .20:33
lcuk(makes spectrum 48k do strange stuff)20:33
dougtso, promising! yes, so not there. ;-)20:33
GAN8001eichi, 3 hours to full20:33
GAN800130 minutes to 80%20:33
X-FadeValidator thinks the feed is OK too.20:34
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dougtkulve: have you tried using this location API?20:34
GAN8001Then what the hell is going on here? O_o20:34
lcukodd thing: leaving 810 on "Performance" all day does not apparantly effect battery life..20:34
Anunakinlook here .... the guy put all info about your N800
X-Fadelcuk: If there is no application using the cpu it will sleep anyway.20:35
Navimmm, sleep20:36
* Navi drools20:36
AnunakinThanks guys... I need to go!!!20:36
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lcukX-Fade, the device is simply more snappy on performance, ive found out its deffo wifi thats my killer20:36
X-FadeGAN8001: I won't close your bug as WORKSFORME, but do try to find out what is going on :)20:37
GAN8001Trying on another device now.20:37
lcuki can now take it to work or with me all day and not run down the battery20:37
X-Fadelcuk: Yeah, just listen to a internet radio stream or use vagalume.20:37
lcukyer i know20:37
X-Fadelcuk: Will warm up your device nicely :)20:37
lardmanlcuk: if your tablet sleeps all day (dyntick) then perhaps that why?20:37
lcuki keep device in a wooden crate anyway20:38
lardmandougt: let me see if I can find that demo code20:38
X-FadeBut my N95 gets so hot with VOIP over wifi that after 40 minutes I can't hold it to my ear anymore ;)20:38
lcuki thought the cpu only slept properly in ondemand20:38
dougtlardman: thanks.20:38
lcukif not, why not use performance all the time20:38
lardmantwo different things, cpu speed and dyntick20:38
GAN8001lcuk, we had sleeping fine in OS2007.20:38
lcukX-Fade, :D melting earwax isnt because of device, its the radio waves cooking it20:38
dougtlardman: i am basically trying a bunch of stuff including calling gpsmgr directly which feels wrong.20:39
lardmanif you have some task which needs to wake the processor up, you may as well run at less than full speed and save power?20:39
dougtbut maybe that is the right thing to do?20:39
summatus_n810this ramen is not that good... i may have put too much water in20:39
lcukbut if its asleep why does it matter20:39
lardmandougt: no idea :)20:39
GAN8001Well, X-Fade, I can't add it to Safari, Chinook or Diablo.20:40
lcuksimon, when we went out on thursday it lasted me writing notes all day and then well into the night with numpty and beer in the garten20:40
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GAN8001Apple Discussions claim the Safari issue might be Leopard related, but I can't explain the N800s20:41
GAN8001Will try some other stuff later.20:41
lardmanlcuk: Asleep is fine, but if you are doing something that doesn't need 100% speed (i.e. not watching movies in mplayer) then running the cpu slower at those times will save power20:41
lardmanlcuk: yeah, not a bad inningd20:41
* lardman can't type20:41
lcukits ok, i cant either20:42
dougtlardman: right:
lardmannot enough beer ;)20:42
lardmandougt: sounds about right20:42
lardmandougt: This for the N810 or N800?20:42
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dougtthe n81020:42
dougtit looks like i just uses the gpsbt_start()20:43
dougti was using the gps_start function (figuring it would be the more general thing to use?)20:43
lardmanand don't pass it a BT address20:43
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lcukwhy is ballmer shaking harry potters hand?20:43
lardmandougt: There's still heavy interdependence between the gps and bt libs so I read20:44
lardmandougt: presumably they were written before a built-in GPS was decided upon20:44
summatus_n810the rezl question is why wasn't he before?20:44
dougtyeah, should be fixed up and just make location do the right thing.20:44
summatus_n810meh... ramen sucks20:45
Navilcuk, well, it's not the person as much as how Balmer is staring right at Tux20:45
X-FadeGAN8001: Can it be that the problem is the https?20:46
johnxsummatus_n810, your ramen sucks. ramen in general is awesome20:46
lcukim well aware of that.. ;)20:46
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Naviramen has the same nutritional value as the cardboard boxes I get them in20:46
summatus_n810johnx: meh... it's possible20:46
derfInstant ramen sucks.20:47
johnxsummatus_n810, I'd even allow that all instant ramen sucks.20:47
derfReal ramen is awesome.20:47
NaviReal ramen is okay20:47
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johnxNavi, where did you have it?20:47
johnxand derf, agreed. :D20:47
summatus_n810oh... yeah, i probably had instant ramen. what is real ramen?20:47
johnxscroll down to gallery20:48
Navipork, chives, corn20:48
X-FadeGAN8001: I can't add any feed that has https in it's url?20:48
johnxNavi, O_o20:48
derfYou all need to watch Tampopo.20:48
derfBut make sure you know where a good ramen shop is first, because you will want some afterwards.20:48
summatus_n810wtf? ubuntu doesn't recognize me wireless card?20:48
NaviDo something about it20:49
Naviset it up yourself20:49
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summatus_n810I will, butg I expected it to recognize it20:49
johnxit depends on the card20:49
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infobotsummatus_n810 meant: I will, but I expected it to recognize it20:49
johnxsome cards don't have linux drivers20:49
NaviI don't expect anything to be recognized20:49
Naviworking out of the box is a luxury, not a necessity :P20:49
dougtlardman: using the BT interface seems to work.20:49
lardmandougt: cool20:50
GAN8001X-Fade, could be it.20:50
summatus_n810johnx: I suppose, it's a macbook20:50
GAN8001Dunno how to test, though.20:50
johnxsummatus_n810, should work then20:50
X-FadeGAN8001: Try to add a maemo news feed on https.20:50
lardmanhow much free space do you think one might theoretically need to upgrade to Diablo?20:52
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johnxgood question20:53
johnxsymlink /var/cache/apt/archives somewhere else and you should be fine. someplace with a couple hundred megs20:53
lcuki thought diablo first initial release was a normal flash?20:53
johnxlcuk, it will be.20:53
johnxfor now there is an apt repository that seems to work pretty well as long as you upgrade from a fresh chinook flash20:54
mgedminin r&d mode, I assume?20:55
johnxI've heard that disabling lifeguard reset is important20:55
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mgedminthat's probably what I meant20:56
kulvedougt: yup20:56
GAN8001Sorry, X-Fade, gotta bug out. Will test tonight.20:57
GAN800lardman, at least 80MB20:57
X-FadeGAN8001: Yeah, I'm out too. Let's see if we can find the cause later :)20:58
GAN800maybe more.20:58
lardmanjohnx: what happens if you try to upgrade from a not so clean Chinook?21:01
lardmanGAN800: thanks21:01
johnxlardman, your system may end up in an undefined state :)21:02
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NaviMy install broke when IU tried21:02
johnxuse your imagination :)21:02
lcukbackup first :)21:02
MangoFusionman, just had a complete weirdo IM me21:02
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lardmanyeah, I realised that, I was just wondering what the actual error was21:02
lardmanah well, I can always reflash I guess21:02
johnxno single error per se, but you might run into interesting problems21:03
lardmanah well, I'll give it a go then :)21:04
lcukchinablo :)21:04
lcukarghhhh @ clock skew.   how do i make my 810 get its time from my big pc?21:06
johnxlcuk, ntpdate and an ntp server for your computer21:07
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johnxlardman, the other thing is if you run into a weird problem with some app later on it might make it more difficult to tell whether it's a legit bug that needs to be fixed or an artifact of the way you upgraded21:07
lcukthanks john21:07
johnxrdate might work too21:07
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johnxhaving both sync to the same time server somewhere else might be easier/better though21:08 is my personal choice :)21:08
lcukyer, ill try..21:08
lardmanjohnx: hmm, good point21:09
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MangoFusionanyone here know if there is a build of that Einstein newton emulator for OS2008?21:24
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Italodancehow can i get this theme for my mplayer ?21:24
johnxItalodance, it's a whole frontend called smplayer21:25
MaximanderI'm attempting to setup a dev env on ubuntu/hardy, following instructions on, and sb2 is complaining about my target being invalid.21:25
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Maximanderand sb2-config -l returns nothing.21:26
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Italodancejohnx where is the deb install file?21:26
mgedminMaximander: did you run the target installer?21:27
johnxthere is a link on the page you linked...21:27
mgedminmaemo-rootstrap install all21:27
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Maximander$ maemo-rootstrap list21:28
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mgedminsb2-config -l shows me all targets, plus some nonsense21:29
mgedminlike mistral20_armel.tmp-pkg-db.maemo21:29
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Maximanderthis is a clean install, following the guide and using etch tools rather than --host-tools21:29
Italodancejohnx did u installed it?21:29
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anonhey guys, i would like to ask a question:  if i had a dayjob which was not maemo related but wanted to spend more time developing for it without taking up his nights, where would i look21:31
mgedminthe jobs section on
anoni was under the impression those all needed relocation to finland21:32
Italodancejohnx can it hurts my IT? and mplayer?21:32
johnxItalodance, probably not...but I have no idea21:32
Italodancejohnx smplayer will put on mplayer?21:32
johnxit's an application that launches mplayer21:33
Navismplayer is an mplayer frontend21:33
Navikinda ugly on the tablets though21:33
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anonhmmm Ideally, you are familiar with OpenGL, Open VG or some other accelerated graphics standard and experience in Widget development will also count in your favor.21:34
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Maximanderanyone know how to get scratchbox working?21:36
pupnik_easiest is to use the vmware image21:36
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Maximanderuck, I'm running ubuntu already.21:36
NaviJust follow the guide21:37
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anondoes anyone know of any none nokia teams working on projects for maemo?21:37
johnxanon, commercial projects?21:38
anonwell we have to get our bread from somewhere21:38
johnxmaybe you could ask indt?21:38
qwerty12_N800indt is a nokia thing iirc21:39
MaximanderNavi: I did follow the guide, up through step 5, and it doesn't seem to work21:39
anonqwerty is right, indt is somewhat related to nokia21:40
jeroinubuntu on your nokia?21:41
MaximanderI'm guessing I need to do an sb2-init or somehow add the rootstrap I downloaded to sb2's targets, but I'm not sure how to do that21:41
johnxbut not necessarily locaked in finland21:41
mgedminMaximander: what worked for me was21:41
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anonyes, but finland is just across the water, indt are on the other side of the world21:41
trickieanon: maybe openhand, who do some work for nokia21:41
trickiethey are uk based21:41
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anonhow about closer to home: england21:41
trickieand do other non-maemo embedded work21:41
anonahhh trickie :) excellent21:41
* mgedmin reads .bash_history21:42
trickiethey looking right now21:42
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jeroinwhat kind of hardware will the new NIT have? OMAP3?21:42
summatusmentishrw works for them21:42
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trickiethey are looking right now for people21:42
anongahhh, mental note: dont click links in browser irc ;)21:42
anoni saw thanks21:42
trickiehe he21:42
jeroinopen link in new window;p21:43
lardmanis itt down?21:43
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mgedminMaximander: this worked for me on hardy:
anonwere openhand at linuxtag recently?21:44
trickieanon: i didn't see an offical presense, but maybe, some of their guys were for surer21:46
keesjain't hrw related?21:48
anonhmmm, it would have been nice to meet some of them.  wish i had thought of this sooner21:48
qwerty12_N800lardman, yeh, not loading here21:48
anonkeesj :) interesting21:49
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keesjanon: what?21:50
lardmanqwerty12_N800: np, was just trying to sort out my apt lists, will have to do it after supper though now21:50
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anonthat hrw is involved21:50
keesjI am just guessing here. but He does poky I think21:51
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anonyer i heard when we were there21:52
summatusmentiskeesj: yeah, hrw works for openedhand21:52
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pupnik_our meeting at linuxtag was very motivational21:54
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mgedminoh yes21:55
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* anon agrees21:55
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n800n_is there an app that gets you the power menu without having to press the hw button?21:55
keesjanon: are you the famous Anonymous?21:55
anonim not going to play the guessing game here and now, but would really like to speak to some people about having a dayjob doing what i am very passionate about21:56
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anoni just dont know where to start21:56
pupnikmaybe write a cool app like konttori21:57
summatusmentisanon: a lot of places that are working w/ maemo are likely looking for OSS experience21:57
anonOSS experience is a company policy and if i am paid to release my code then i dont care :)21:58
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summatusmentisoh, fair enough, who do you work for?21:59
summatusmentisif you don't mind my asking21:59
anonmy maemo work is all nighttime coding.  enough people have seen it to know something productive can come out of it though22:00
anoni am not a manager though, i have different priorities at night to what i want to code than what i have in the daytime22:01
summatusmentisright, that makes sense22:02
lcukso things like releases and packages and stuff is low down because i am growing and adding features and using the code myself22:02
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anonhow do you say bollocks nicely?22:04
texelanon: 'crap'? =op22:04
johnxyour hostmask was the same anyways...22:04
n800n_so is there no way to access the power menu say from an icon in the statusbar ?22:05
pixies_setanta: ping...22:05
setantapixies_, pong22:06
summatusmentisbollocks is considered rude?22:07
RST38hanon: you say "testicles"22:08
RST38hanon: as in "Your point of view is akin to moose testicles: as hairy and shapeless."22:09
anonarent testes round?22:10
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anonanyway, thanks guys. bye22:14
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hrwand he just left22:16
{abo}The problem with booting of the removable SD is that it makes every app say "Memory card not present" when you tell them to store something on the removable card.22:16
{abo}I just want everything neatly in /home/user, darn it.22:16
{abo}Maybe if I add a vfat partition on the SD card...22:17
keesjI have a fat as first parition indeed22:17
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hrwre lardman22:17
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lardmanhey hrw22:17
{abo}keesj: It has to be the first?22:18
keesjfirst is a hard term in partition table world. but I guess so the famoush init scripts also work better when you do that :p22:19
Cptnodegard Nokia N800 Canola2 Now Playing:  Brother Firetribe - Lover Tonite22:19
{abo}I'm not actually using famoush's stuff, just using the Nokia tools to set it to boot from mmc22:21
{abo}I guess Nokia's init script will only boot from the first partition.22:22
summatusmentishrw: just out of curiousity, how did you manage to get the ohand job?22:22
summatusmentisall the OE stuff?22:23
hrwsummatusmentis: years of experience in OpenEmbedded22:23
hrwsummatusmentis: I am one of core devs in OE22:23
summatusmentisyeah, ok. Experience == being one of the devs, actually doing stuff, instead of just being a relatively casual user like myself :)22:24
summatusmentishrw: I know22:24
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Maximanderso, maemo-rootstrap install all appears to run sb2-init after each one is installed. it did not run sb2-init when invoked just as maemo-rootstrap install chinook40_armel22:25
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Maximandernot sure why, but it explains why sb2-config was unhappy even though I followed the guide22:26
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Maximanderguess it doesn't hurt to have a bunch of rootstraps I'll never use...22:27
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lardman75.3MB to be exact22:33
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sidneihello there, is there any known issue with the on-screen keyboard sometimes not showing up?22:37
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johnxsidnei, I've run into this sometimes in the browser. Do you mean the smaller stylus keyboard or the fullscreen thumb keyboard?22:38
sidneijohnx: both actually22:38
johnxin the browser or another app?22:38
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sidnei_johnx: any app22:43
sidnei_johnx: as in, it works once and then disappears to never show up again22:44
johnxah, ok, never ran into that22:44
sidnei_johnx: if i restart it comes back but for works for very short22:44
johnxare you using an external keyboard?22:44
summatusmentishrw: that was interesting22:44
sidnei_hrw: very cool, almost beat it :)22:44
sidnei_johnx: yes, i am forced to, unfortunately :(22:45
hrwI did not get in time for mirror one - 2-3 lines of text left22:45
johnxsidnei, I mean, were you using it before you had this problem?22:45
summatusmentishow does it tell you how well you did?22:45
hrwsummatusmentis: no idea - just got link22:45
summatusmentisoh... it told you you were too slow?22:46
sidnei_johnx: as in, i boot up, they on-screen keyb works, so im not using teh external one, then it disappears and im forced to use the external one because the on-screen one never comes back22:47
hrwhave a nice evening guys22:47
johnx'night hrw22:47
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summatusmentis*sigh* I need to do work :-/22:48
johnxsidnei, did you always have this problem? did you install anything right before the problem started? is this an n800 or n810?22:48
johnxn800 I assume...22:48
sidnei_johnx: n81022:49
sidnei_johnx: i might have installed stuff yeah22:50
johnxany app that would mess with the onscreen keyboard or that relies on the hardware keyboard sliding switch?22:50
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sidnei_johnx: could be yeah, i would have no idea actually22:52
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johnxwell did you install an app that is triggered by that switch? ie that runs when you slide the keyboard in22:53
sidnei_i'm mostly sure i didn't. yeah22:54
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johnxfair enough. I have an N800, but maybe someone with an N810 has run into a similar problem22:54
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RST38hHeh, Google has started installing services and background processes to user machines23:03
johnxRST38h, hmm?23:03
RST38hjohnx: well, they did stuff like that as part of Google Desktop for a while now23:04
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RST38hjohnx: But since week or two ago, they also do it inadvertedly when you install Google Earth plugin for example23:04's hard to do a desktop "quick search" type app without background indexing23:04
johnxgoogle earth plugin?23:05
RST38hLooks like you are getting that background process every time you use anything related to Google Gears23:05
johnxah, I see23:05
RST38hSneaky bastards23:05
* RST38h kind of expected this to happen sooner or later though...23:05
||cwgears would require that23:06
johnxRST38h, is this code collecting private info or something?23:07
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RST38hjohnx: no idea. and don't wanna find out23:07
RST38hjust deleted the whole thing a few minutes ago23:07
johnxheh...fair enough23:07
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MangoFusionit's a big googlistic conspiracy23:08
sidnei_this might be a faq, but, anyone knows when diablo is coming out?23:08
infobotFast and efficient NNTP newsfeeder software. URL:, or a better link-time optimizer. More information can be found at
johnxhmm...not what I wanted infobot23:09
johnxsidnei_, theoretically before the end of the month23:09
MangoFusionsergey brin and larry page are going to win the US elections23:09
sidnei_johnx: that would be june right?23:09
summatusmentisthey'd be better than mccain23:09
johnxsidnei_, yes23:10
johnxotherwise it will be late...and as well all know software is never released later than expected :D23:10
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sidnei_know if there are any big changes in browser land or anything? that would be my biggest complaint23:14
johnxno big changes23:15
johnxa couple small fixes having to do with onscreen keyboard stuff23:16
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sidnei_so i just tested now, i booted up, tried the on-screen keyboard on the browser, it opened up23:16
lardmanphew, back to just the one desktop23:16
sidnei_then i opened up the chat application, the big on-screen keyboard doesn't show up23:17
sidnei_enable 'stylus input', the small keyboard shows up23:17
sidnei_and that's it23:17
sidnei_bit on-screen keyboard never comes back23:17
lardmanWhere's qwert gone?23:19
lardmanqwerty even23:19
lardmanhmm, kernel appears to be too big23:20
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summatusmentislardman: I think he said he had school23:23
summatusmentisor something23:23
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lardmansummatusmentis: thanks23:24
summatusmentislardman: sure. It might be that he has to be in bed, for school... he mentioned school starting again, that's about all I know23:25
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gpdSanity check: Could I use my N800, connected via bluetooth to a HSDPA phone, as a 'wireless router' to allow other machines access to my HSDPA connection? ie. can N800 be setup to do Ad Hoc or whatever you call it?23:36
johnxad-hoc yes23:36
johnxap/master mode: no23:36
jeroin_it depends on the phone23:36
gpdhardware or software malfunction ?23:36
johnxyou'll need some modules (possibly a custom kernel) to get iptables/masq-nat support23:37
gpdPhone is Nokia E51 - which also has WiFi onboard23:37
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gpdIn theory the E51 could act as a wireless router all by itself - but that is asking too much of it i suspect23:37
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johnxgpd, I don't know if the lack of ap/master mode support is at a hardware or driver level, but it doesn't really matter23:38
jeroin_the phone can probably do ad-hoc23:38
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jeroin_"Currently Symbian OS used in Nokia phones does not support WLAN infrastructure mode."23:38
johnxthough the phone's wifi won't come into play at all...23:39
glassthere is software23:39
glassfor 3rd ed23:39
glasss60, to act as wlan adhoc(i think adhoc) router..23:39
RST38hHow come my ancient Symbian-based E70 works with an AP in infrastructure mode?23:39
glassit only supported http though23:39
glassmight support more now, havent checked in a while23:40
jeroin_joiku yes23:40
glassyeah that23:40
johnxRST38h, it's in Managed mode23:40
jeroin_the pro/paid version supports more than http23:40
jeroin_well i dont know what kind of BT version is in your phone either.. 2.1?23:40
RST38hjohnx: ?23:41
RST38hit is either infrastructure or adhoc, afaik23:41
johnxRST38h, infrastructure mode is what your AP is in. Managed is what a client of an AP is in23:41
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jeroin_just do this: vpn with https proxy at server, ssl over http all over hsdpa/joiku or hsdpa/bt23:42
johnxthere are 3 modes: master/ap/infrastructure. client/managed and ad-hoc23:42
gpdE51 has Bluetooth 2.0 +EDR according to forum.nokia23:42
RST38hjohnx: oh, you mean Symbian can't act as an AP23:42
RST38hwell, that is fair enough23:42
johnxI'm not even the one that said that :P23:42
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jeroin_gpd: that approx saturates HSDPA23:43
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jeroin_gpd: go try with BT over HSDPA and see how you like it if you don't like it try WiFi + JoikuSpot and if you want more than merely HTTP hack around that or buy the thingy23:45
gpdok -i am confused. My naive idea was to plug N800 into E51 using USB cable (female to female magic) then add some extra magic and presto - wireless lan in the park... clearly these things are never going to be that easy23:46
shaprlesbian cables?23:46
gpdjeroin_: will look at Joiku - thanks23:46
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johnxgpd, can your phone act as a modem like that to a notebook/desktop?23:46
johnxif so, it should be just about that easy23:46
gpdyes - i am on it as that now23:46
gpdusb to phone on XP laptop with 3.5 G connection to O2 in UK23:47
glassshouldn't worry about bt saturation with nits..23:47
johnxgpd, should be doable on a tablet then, as long as your phone doesn't have high usb power requirements23:48
gpdI guess the alternative is to just bring the laptop to the park and use that in master/ap/infrastructure mode to broadcast the wifi lan to others in the area23:48
gpdanyway - all fun and games to bad had at a later date - thanks for the help23:48
johnxit really should be doable...23:48
johnxand especially easy over bt23:49
jeroin_gpd: hmm i don't think the n8x0 can work in ad-hoc either23:49
johnxjeroin_, yes it can...23:49
johnxif it doesn't thats a bug23:49
jeroin_ah ok great23:49
jeroin_so the N8x0 can act as a router?23:50
johnxif you want to do NAT, you need to add a couple kernel mods23:50
infobotjohnx meant: if you want to do NAT, you need to add a couple kernel modules23:50
jeroin_and USB networking works too, but i wonder if his phone would do this w/o ath additional23:51
jeroin_if you need Joiku for WiFi then it might be necc. for USB networking too...23:51
johnxhe's using his phone over usb *right now* :P23:52
jeroin_nice then USB and BT are his options23:53
jeroin_and, Joiku for WiFi23:53
johnxright, or tablet for wifi23:53
jeroin_need to think about other factors like what uses least power, or what is the most flexible23:54
jeroin_i dont know about you but i dont want to have devices wired to each other while sitting in the park they might think i'm pretending to be a terrorist23:54
jeroin_is there a powertop port avail?23:55
johnxright, which is why he asked about bt first23:55
johnxthe kernel is missing some features needed for it23:55
johnxthe "port" should be trivial: just a recompile23:56
jeroin_WiFi has a longer reach, but it also uses far more W23:56
jeroin_ahh i see23:56
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jeroin_bah i hear that more often about recompiles sigh23:57
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* Navi yawns23:59
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