IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2008-05-28

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simbossguys, I am trying to setup my n800 with os2008 for development in python, but I can't install pluthon; I get  this message "application packages missing: mount-full (>=2.12p+maemo2)"00:03
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simbossany ideas?00:03
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RST38hUltimate goth restaurant:
RST38hsimboss: it is missing a package called mount-full00:06
summatusmentisw00t!!! My n810 just came!!!00:06
RST38hYou need to find and install this package00:06
summatusmentisthese stylii seem sort of flimsy00:07
GAN8001summatusmentis, I hardly use mine these days, just stick to the fingers. :P00:08
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qwerty12_N800RST38h, Nah, it's there but it's versioned wrong. I  did long hax to sort it out :/00:08
simbossrst38H: isn't a bit strange that it does not get downloaded by default being a dependency?00:09
summatusmentisGAN8001: yeah... but... the screen is so... pretty!00:09
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GAN8001summatusmentis, I recommend a boxwave anti-glare protector to reduce smudging. ;)00:10
summatusmentisoh? ok, how much do those go for?00:10
GAN8001$12 USD00:10
GAN8001They really improve outdoor usability, too.00:10
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GAN8001summatusmentis, it's worth it.00:11
summatusmentishow do I modify the sources list?00:11
GAN8001They really don't scratch00:12
GAN8001So it's a life-of-the-device protector.00:12
* practisevoodoo applauds summatusmentis00:12
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practisevoodooit took me at least 30 minutes before i was doing that00:12
summatusmentispractisevoodoo: it won't let me install skype00:12
practisevoodooshould allready be on there00:12
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GAN8001No, just the installer.00:13
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GAN8001summatusmentis, enable Extras.00:13
summatusmentisGAN8001: how?00:13
GAN8001Application manager: Menu -> Tools -> Application Catalogs...: maemo Extras -> Edit -> Uncheck Disabled00:13
practisevoodoomenu -> settings -> application manager00:14
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RST38hqwerty: umgh00:20
RST38hanyway. sleep time00:20
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kimrhhanyone tried building an external kernel module for the N810 ?00:20
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qwerty12_N800RST38h, night00:21
qwerty12_N800kimrhh, yes and have done so successfuly (not now though, away from comp)00:22
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elbfor those near a Big Lots, the Big Lots near me has a 4000 mAh "Digital Concepts" portable power lithium ion battery pack for $10.00 with a zillion power adapter tips -- and it will output 5V00:23
elbit doesn't have a Nokia tip, but I'm looking into that :-)00:23
kimrhhqwerty12_N800: great00:24
kimrhhqwerty12_N800: i'm trying to follow the Kbuild documentation, and the how-to on kernel building from maemo.org00:24
qwerty12_N800I would say, don't make a new target00:25
qwerty12_N800use chinook_armel00:25
kimrhhqwerty12_N800: having set up a ARMEL kernel target inside scratchbox, if I issued "make -C /path/to/kernel -M=`pwd` ARCH=arm CROSSCOMPILE=arm-linux-" it still builds a module which is not the right arch according to modinfo00:26
summatusmentisinstalling canola , even though I'm probably not gonna use this for media :)00:26
kimrhhqwerty12_N800: aha00:26
GAN8001summatusmentis, why in the world not?00:27
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summatusmentisGAN8001: I've got an iPod00:28
GAN8001It makes a pretty awesome video machine.00:28
summatusmentisoh, that's fair00:28
qwerty12_N800What I do is that I make a symlink to the kernel source from wherever it's called from indt'sthe make so I all I have to do is run make00:28
GAN8001summatusmentis, http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org00:28
kimrhhqwerty12_N800: you created your own Makefile?00:29
kimrhhqwerty12_N800: oh sorry, didn't see the last msg00:29
qwerty12_N800sorry for being unclear, i'm talking off memory  + i'm tired :)00:30
* Jaffa bingles another GAN8001 plug :-)00:30
kimrhhqwerty12_N800: i'm not exactly following that last one :)00:30
* Jaffa wonders what "interesting" things will be announced from Nokia/maemo at LinuxTag00:30
kimrhhqwerty12_N800: you make a symlink to a Makefile in the kernel dir?00:30
GAN8001Jaffa, my checks still haven't come yet. >:| :P00:31
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GAN8001The NITs will be Nokia's first Windows Mobile devices. :D00:31
JaffaGAN8001: Unfortunately - no spare cash, got a parking ticket today cos I stupidly forgot to display my season ticket at the train station. Very very pissed off.00:31
GAN8001How much?00:32
Jaffa25ukp ($50) if paid within 14 days. I've emailed saying my season ticket fell off my windscreen cos I didn't put it up properly and asked to be let off.00:32
JaffaWe'll see how bureaucratic they are. Probably: lots.00:32
GAN8001Quite a ticket00:33
GAN8001Parking tickets are only about $17 here. . . .00:33
KotCzarnyjaffa, but do they track when it was bought?00:33
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JaffaKotCzarny: I bought my season ticket on 01/04/2008 - runs for 3 months so expires 30/06/200800:34
KotCzarnyit has your name or something?00:34
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JaffaKotCzarny: yeah - they should have records that I've got a season ticket.00:34
JaffaBut the offence is "not clearly displaying a valid ticket"00:34
ReKlipzI just recieved my n810. I'm wondering, out of the box, how do I use the GPS?00:35
KotCzarnyand how much is 'not having valid ticket' ?00:35
GAN8001ReKlipz, open up "Map" or install Maemo Mapper00:35
GAN8001Or you can try the "GPS Location" in Control panel if you just want lat/long.00:36
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ReKlipzi tired the gps location, but it just shows searching all the time00:36
GAN8001First fix is the hardest.00:37
ReKlipzand the "Map" app just sits there at the gps display00:37
GAN8001Make sure you have clear line-of-site to the sky and aren't covering the antenna.00:37
||cwReKlipz: go outside where it can get a clear view of the satellites00:37
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ReKlipz||cw, that will speed it up?00:38
||cwshould, yes00:38
Jaykieyou may never get gps fix inside a building00:38
||cwyeah, walking back inside might lose the fix again00:39
ReKlipzok, well, it is freezing outside, but i stood out there for a bit, earler, and nada00:39
||cw40 seconds isn't uncommon00:39
GAN8001It's an AGPS that currently lacks the "A".00:39
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summatusmentisit's telling me that it's missing libhildonfm2 and libhildonmime000:42
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simbossguys this mount-full missing dependency is killing me00:42
simbossis even blocking me from installing pythond-dev00:42
GAN8001How are you installing, simboss?00:44
GAN8001summatusmentis, what is?00:44
simbossgan8001: I just tried using the application manager00:44
simbossI can seed the python-dev listed00:44
simbossbut it is not installable00:44
simbossdue to tht missing dependency00:44
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simbossas well as many others00:45
simbosswhich are in the same situation00:45
simbosslike maemo-pc-connectivity00:45
GAN8001I've never heard of "mount-full", simboss, and google and gronmayer return nothing.00:46
GAN8001Sounds like something's borked.00:46
simbossexact :-(00:46
GAN8001summatusmentis, try this .install:
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simbossgan8001: any ideas on how to fix hat?00:49
GAN8001Not a clue.00:49
simbossI feared that :-(00:50
simbosswill give it a try though :-(00:50
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ReKlipzwell, i still didnt get anything outside for like 5 minutes, but it's completely overcast. the maps app showed two of the bars with little numbers under them, dont know what that means though...01:02
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GAN8002 sats01:03
GAN800But, seriously, the first fix is the worst.01:03
ReKlipzi'll wait till tomorrow then, it's way too cold to be outside for more than 5 mins in a tshirt. thanks for the infos though01:04
ReKlipzanother question, can I use this as a phone on say, the verizon network?01:04
GAN8001It's not a cellphone01:05
GAN8001You could either use wifi or bluetooth tethering to do VoIP, though.01:05
ReKlipzthat's what i thought01:06
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summatusmentisGAN8001: what do I do w/ the .install?01:14
GAN800Open it in MicroB, it'll asd the repository that contains those dependencies.01:15
infobotGAN800 meant: Open it in MicroB, it'll add the repository that contains those dependencies.01:15
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ReKlipzI'm looking to develop an app that will run on the n810, basically, the app is the only thing that needs to be running, I don't need anything else but the hardware. I was thinking about ditching "maemo" as a whole ( the window manager and all ), and developing my own app that will run on what would be "X". Is this the way to do it, or should I consider keeping maemo and developing just an app for it?01:20
Mouseywhy get rid of the baby with the bathwater?01:22
Mouseyyour app is available to a wider audience and there's less work for you to do to maintain the package[s] if you leave the underlying distro in place.01:23
Mouseyotherwise you're just making work for yourself. i wonder what your concerns about having the distro underneath are01:23
GAN800I don't get all the people dumping everything for one program. Why not expand your userbase by not throwing away maemo? <_<01:24
Mouseythere's nothing wrong with ditching hildon and matchbox and the overlying  Xclients to reap the resources, but yea, it severly limits who'll be able to [or want to] use the app01:25
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summatusmentisGAN8001: I'm getting an "Operation failed"01:28
GAN8001Sometimes happens when you try and do too much stuff at once01:29
GAN8001or do nothing at all01:29
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GAN8001Chinook's application manager is pretty buggy01:29
GAN8001You can usually ignore that banner.01:29
GAN8001(Diablo's is much, much better ;))01:29
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ReKlipzhmm, well.. I guess, the app is kindof one off. It's for a project at our local zoo, who is using it for genetics research in Madagascar. Basically, it will be a device that the users will input data on + GPS, and when it comes in range of the proper wlan, it will automatically backup the "reports", and be ready to go out in the field again.01:41
ReKlipzbasically, there is really no need for the window manager, as there should only ever be one app running at a time.01:41
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summatusmentisGAN8001: the application manager is still telling me I'm missing those two libraries to install skype01:45
fearphageare there definite dates on the n810 wimax?01:46
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zapAnybody knows if N810 supports WPA/PSK with AES encryption? I can connect to my AP only if just TKIP is used01:47
GAN800Did you refresh?01:48
zaprefresh what?01:49
GAN800Not you, zap.01:49
zapah, sorry ;)01:49
GAN800No, fearphage.01:49
GAN800It's largely dependent on Sprint at this point.01:49
summatusmentisGAN8001: yeah, still telling me I'm missing libhildonfm2 and libhildonmime001:50
fearphageGAN800: sprint is the only wimax provider? that is unfortunate. i was planning on dropping sprint in november01:50
ReKlipzso, where do you all suggest I start with development then?01:51
fearphagemaybe i should read more about wimax. in my work and home area, sprint reception is garbage. is wimax based on cell tower reception?01:51
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GAN800No, fearphage.01:57
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GAN800WiMAX is separate.01:57
GAN800summatusmentis, how are you installing (and what) have you tried apt-getting the dependencies.01:58
fearphagethank heavens01:58
GAN800There are other wimax operators, but Sprints the only major one in the US and the one providing Xohm with the N810W.01:59
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summatusmentisGAN800: I'm trying to install skype, via the application manager02:00
ReKlipzwikipedia has a pretty good wimax entry if you're interested, fearphage02:00
summatusmentisalso GAN800, what was the name of the screen protector?02:01
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GAN8001Boxwave anti-glare02:07
GAN8001summatusmentis, install easyroot02:08
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, easyroot is an easy way to get root access on OS2008 and can be found at http://nitapps.com02:08
GAN8001and try apt-getting the dependencies from xterm02:08
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ReKlipzIf I wanted to revert my n810 to the original maemo OS that it came with, how would I do that? Is there a rom available somwhere on that I can flash to do this?02:13
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ReKlipzGAN800 and GAN8001, same person?02:14
GAN8001GAN800's (variously) one of two N800s and two 770, and GAN8001 is the G4 at my parent's house (GeneralAntilles is my primary).02:15
infobotGAN8001 meant: GAN800's (variously) one of two N800s and two 770s, and GAN8001 is the G4 at my parent's house (GeneralAntilles is my primary).02:16
ReKlipzhmm, mmk02:16
ReKlipznow, one more question, how do I actually flash these binaries?02:16
ReKlipznevermind... :(02:18
summatusmentisGAN8001: they're both installed, it looks like it's needing newer versions, are there 'testing' feeds?02:21
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GAN8001summatusmentis, hrm, maybe a Diablo something or other?02:23
GAN8001Which version does it depend on?02:23
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ReKlipzso, let me get this straight. We develop dpkg packages using the scratchbox+sdk environment, and then we install the packages on the actual device using dpkg? is there any way to terminal into the device?02:24
summatusmentisit's looking for 1.9.49 and 1.10.1 respectively02:24
GAN8001ssh, ReKlipz.02:24
GAN8001It's basically Debian.02:24
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GAN8001and they're .debs, not "dpkg packages"02:25
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ReKlipzso then, hildon is a package?02:26
GAN8001Hildon is the GUI/API02:26
ReKlipzand to remove it, i can remove the package02:26
GAN8001Hildon libraries can be packaged, though, yes.02:26
GAN8001summatusmentis, hrm, you haven't flashed your device to the latest firmware yet, have you?02:27
GAN8001Open up Control panel, go to about and tell me the version number.02:27
summatusmentisGAN8001: no, I didn't know I was supposed :)02:27
GAN8001Well, it MAY be up to date02:27
GAN8001Nokia is USUALLY pretty good about that02:28
GAN8001But maybe not02:28
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GAN8001and I'm recalling Skype being stupidly picky about that.02:28
* GAN8001 uses Gizmo.02:28
GAN8001Yeah, that's the problem02:28
ReKlipzwhat's the default root password...02:28
GAN8001Sorry about the wild goose chase. :\02:28
GAN8001rootme, ReKlipz, but root isn't enabled by default02:28
GAN8001You'll need to install easyroot02:28
infoboti guess easyroot is an easy way to get root access on OS2008 and can be found at http://nitapps.com02:28
GAN8001Then just type 'root'02:29
GAN8001summatusmentis, you on Linux?02:29
summatusmentisOS X02:29
GAN8001(Hey, me too! :D) OK, first go here: and download the latest firmware (ends in 51-3).02:30
GAN8001Then go here: and download flasher-2.0 for OS X.02:30
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ReKlipzso, there is no way to become root without easyroot?02:31
GAN8001Well, you could just use ssh02:31
GAN8001ssh root@localhost02:31
ReKlipzis ssh installed by default though?02:32
GAN8001or you can flash the device into R&D mode02:32
GAN8001No, but it's in Extras.02:32
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GAN8001Just enabled Extras and install it.02:32
ReKlipzR&D mode, research and develop?02:32
ReKlipzchance of bricking the thing?02:32
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GAN8001Slim to none02:32
GAN8001You'll want ssh, anyway02:32
ReKlipzwould hope not02:32
GAN8001Unless you've already nuked Matchbox?02:32
ReKlipzdont think so, matchbox?02:33
GAN8001Window manager02:33
GAN8001Just open up Application manager02:33
GAN8001Tap the menu -> Tools -> Application Catalogs...: maemo Extras -> Edit: Uncheck Disabled02:33
GAN8001Let it refresh the repos02:33
GAN8001then install OpenSSH-server02:34
ReKlipzahh, ok02:34
ReKlipzwhat all does r&d mode enable...02:34
GAN8001(I wish Nokia would just ship Extras enabled :\)02:34
GAN8001Well, mostly, it disables the lock on root access and turns off the delay on the power button for starting up02:35
GAN8001Other things, too, but those are the important ones.02:35
GAN8001You don't need it02:35
GAN8001Installing one of the half dozen or so packages to disable the lock in software is less work.02:35
GAN8001Or bypass it (in the case of ssh).02:35
ReKlipzso, r&d mode is a hardware thing then? or purely software?02:35
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summatusmentisGAN8001: those sites are broken02:35
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GAN8001The second one should be anyway02:36
GAN8001The server isn't responding. <_<02:36
GAN8001Stupid Nokia02:36
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befordis there any way to check if the GPS if working, even if I'm not on a country with maps for the map application?02:37
GAN8001Open up Control panel, tap GPS location02:37
GAN8001Or install Maemo Mapper02:38
beford'GPS location details' rigt?02:38
GAN8001Whatever it's called in your localization02:39
GAN8001It has a little satellite image.02:39
befordI cilck on Refresh, an icon appears on the tray, and it stays searching02:39
GAN8001Make sure you're outside02:39
GAN8001summatusmentis, Nokia's servers are weird at the moment. :\02:41
GAN8001Either you can download their updater for Windows if you have access to a Windows machine (plays nicer with their akamai caching network)02:41
GAN8001Or give me about an hour to pull the firmware from my machine at college.02:41
summatusmentisGAN8001: I won't have access to a Windows machine for that long, linux won't work will it?02:42
summatusmentisI've got a VM02:42
GAN8001VM will work02:42
GAN8001Go to Nokia's support site for the N810 and download their update tool.02:42
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GAN8001Linux uses the same system as OS X.02:43
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dick-richardsonI do I stop my n810 from automounting the removable mini sd card on boot?02:49
wolfspiritok this is very nerve racking.. I can't get any roms to work on vgba on my nokia n800 using os2008.. it gets to the first screen but never continues on (example, golden sun shows the nintendo logo but never progresses any further)  any ideas?02:49
GAN8001Keep the card door open, dick-richardson?02:51
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GAN8001summatusmentis, I'm pulling down the firmware right now. If you don't manage it with Windows, I'll have it ready for you in about an hour.03:00
summatusmentisGAN8001: I'm working on summer of code simlutaneously, I'd appreiate just using yours03:02
GAN8001It's an N800 image, so you'll have to do a little tap dancing to get it to flash, but it'll work.03:02
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summatusmentisGAN8001: what sort of tap dancing?03:06
wolfspiritok vgba says it's unable to load the .sta file when loading any of my games.. I don't have an sta file.. that looks like a special format for vgba to load save states03:06
GAN8001The FIASCO image has to be extracted and each part needs to be flashed individually.03:07
summatusmentisheh, ok...03:07
GAN8001Simple to do, but more work than just flasher-2.0 -F <FIASCO image> -f -R ;)03:07
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GAN8001Hrm, what happened to the Misdirected product in Bugzilla?03:12
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* GAN8001 sighs.03:16
GAN8001We need somebody in the Western hemisphere working on this stuff03:16
GAN8001Dem Euros go to bed too early. . . .03:16
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GAN8001Ah, Quim's on it.03:21
GAN8001summatusmentis, 40-ish minutes . . . Comcast is being stupid.03:24
summatusmentisGAN8001: no worries03:25
* GAN8001 is gonna maintain a mirror of this stuff on my non-shitty connection in the future.03:26
GAN8001summatusmentis, I've tried to help at least 3 other people update their new tablets over the past two months . . . tablets-dev has been down or generally unresponsive every time. <_<03:27
summatusmentis:-/ that's annoying03:27
summatusmentisI appreciate it03:27
GAN8001Yessir. :D03:27
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yllushey guys. Anyone running PyPlucker? I wish I could get it working on my 770.03:41
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GAN8001summatusmentis, 5 minutes.04:00
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summatusmentisGAN8001: ok, thanks :)04:00
|penguinbait|whats up with the repos?04:00
|penguinbait|I could care less about the stupid bug04:02
|penguinbait|this crap is getting old04:02
GAN8001|penguinbait|, well, it's where you're going to get status updates. :\04:02
GAN8001So, you want to know what's up, but you don't want the answer?04:02
|penguinbait|I assume the status update will come when I can use it again04:03
GAN8001Then why ask what's up if you know you wont get an answer? :P04:03
|penguinbait|I thought someone might actually know something04:03
GAN8001Yeah, the bug.04:05
GAN8001We know Quim knows about it.04:05
GAN8001That's as much usefulness as I can give you, no need to snap at me. ;)04:06
|penguinbait|Not aware that I did04:06
GAN8001[9:02pm] <|penguinbait|> I could care less about the stupid bug04:07
GAN8001Evidently I misinterpreted your meaning. My apologies.04:07
|penguinbait|Its just a fact04:07
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GAN8001It's Benson!04:07
GAN8001(XChat or irssi?)04:07
|penguinbait|Telling people to file bug requests for a server being down is stupid at best04:08
GAN8001Good choice. ;)04:08
GAN8001|penguinbait|, it'd be nice to have a red phone lying about somewhere.04:08
BensonI'm in trouble...04:08
BensonI was messing with initfs04:08
GAN8001But bugzilla is a fairly effective way to get as many eyes on it as possible as quickly as possible.04:08
BensonOn the day the server happens to go down04:09
|penguinbait|you can just reflash the original initfs Benson04:09
GAN8001Give me a minute or two, Benson.04:09
BensonAnd found out I don't have the original image anywhere04:09
GAN8001I'm mirroring the FIASCO image for summatusmentis.04:09
|penguinbait|you can unback from flash, cant you04:09
GAN8001I'll pull the initfs for you.04:09
GAN8001Just md5ing it to make sure it didn't get screwed up.04:09
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Benson|penguinbait|: You mean retrieve the current flash contents?04:11
GAN8001MD5 looks good . . . Unpacking. . .04:12
GAN8001 for Benson04:13
|penguinbait|I mean you can use the flash tool and unpack the initfs from the flash image04:13
GAN8001 for summatusmentis04:13
|penguinbait|the RX image not flash on the system04:13
GAN8001Benson, MD5 (/Library/WebServer/Documents/initfs.jffs2) = dea5e55cf693f77ee982f3efe946233604:14
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BensonGot it! Thanks.04:16
GAN8001Good timing. ;)04:16
Benson|penguinbait|: Yes, but I don't have the image. I downloaded with a liveCD here on my Windows machine, and I didn't save it to harddrive.04:17
GAN8001By the bye, Benson, Benson is already registered, but it hasn't been used in almost two years.04:21
GAN8001(Assuming it wasn't you) You'll need to talk to a staffer about having it dropped and re-registered.04:22
BensonI couldn't get /msg nickserv <anything> to give any output.04:22
BensonWhich probably means I'm doing something wrong. (And it definitely wasn't me.)04:22
GAN8001It'll show up in another tab04:22
GAN8001Switch tabs with alt-#04:22
WorkingOnWisedoes anyone here use Debian on their N800?04:23
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BensonWorkingOnWise: I do, a little04:23
WorkingOnWiseis there a good on screen keyboard for it? one that pops up as neede like in the default ui?04:24
GAN8001press center-dpad04:24
GAN8001It uses the matchbox keyboard04:24
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WorkingOnWiseI havent actually put it on yet. I ran KDE and have troubles with the on screen keyboard there. It's a bit cumbersom. Was wondering  (hoping) if the debial setup was a little more touchscreen friendly?04:26
BensonOK, so that's alt-#, where # is the tab number, not where # is shift+3...04:27
BensonNow it does something :o04:27
GAN8001Decent introduction, Benson:
GAN8001Also, get it into a screen session ASAP04:30
BensonThat looks like an introduction to... Nokia's server being down?04:31
GAN8001The clipboard is really slow on this machine04:32
GAN8001That's the one.04:32
BensonATM I'm running on a liveCD, for flashing. (Which, BTW, worked beautifully) So it wouldn't be horribly helpful to put it in screen.04:32
BensonI'll do that though, on the tablet and/or cygwin.04:32
GAN8001OK then04:32
BensonNeed it for Mathcad...04:33
GAN8001Best plan is to find yourself a VPS to stick it on.04:33
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BensonWell, my cygwin box is pretty reliable, and always on except when I need to flash (at school).04:35
BensonI think I'll probably leave it on there, and ssh with the tablet.04:35
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GAN8001You may also look into irssi-proxying04:37
GAN8001It'll let you use XChat on the tablet (which is arguably more usable than irssi with the N800).04:37
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summatusmentisis there a way to get rid of this stupid ad widget?04:41
GAN8001Tap the menu while you're on the desktop04:42
befordHome -> Select  Applets04:42
befordDisable Get Started / Tableteer info04:42
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summatusmentisawesome, didn't realize that menu was there04:43
GAN8001summatusmentis, the Getting Started applet and movie can also be uninstalled from Application manager (free up a couple of MB).04:43
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summatusmentisGAN8001: thanks04:44
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befordquick question, how do you delete objects on numtyphysics04:47
GAN8001Press the escape key04:48
Navior you can open the editing panel04:49
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GAN8001Or give Navi vnc access and he'll beat the game for you.04:50
befordnah I can't figure out how to delete 'em04:50
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befordI have the editing panel, (that's the one that appears with the full screen key, right?)04:52
DaniloCesarHey, I can't update N8X0... I'm receiving a "Time-out" message on apt-get update... Are anyone having this pb too, or it' s my connection?04:53
befordrepositories are down04:54
BensonServer's having grief.04:54
GAN8001Add yourself to the CC list if you want to know when things are back to normal.04:54
DaniloCesarThanks guys.....04:54
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DaniloCesarI was thoughing that it was a pb with my internet connection...04:59
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* Cymor is back (gone 22:25:50)05:04
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summatusmentisis anyone else having issues refreshing their package list?05:41
befordyes, the server is down
GAN800Ah,right, forgot to mention that, summatusmentis, repos are down, too. :/05:43
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DaniloCesarCan someone put this information on channel topic?05:57
* Cymor is away: afk05:58
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*** GAN800 changes topic to "development platform for Nokia Internet Tablets | | | | | | Servers are down temporarily"06:00
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summatusmentisGAN8001: that would've been good to know :)06:23
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GAN800Slipped my mind. ;)06:24
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summatusmentisno worries, it just means my n810 is not terribly exciting until they're back up06:28
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scriptexanyone here have a problem installing pluthon on os2008?06:48
scriptexdepends maemo-pc-connectivity (broken packages)06:48
befordif its trying to install a package from the repositories it will probably fail06:53
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nikosapinot sure if I'm asking in the right place, but does anyone know where I can get sshfs for OS 2008?06:54
scriptexbeford: thanks, I'll try to find the deb package06:55
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scriptexanyone know where can I download the deb packages aside from the repository (which is erroring)07:09
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nikosapijohnx: cool, thanks! It works perfectly :)07:44
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befordrepositories seem to be working again07:51
timelythere's an old mirror of things at
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timelywould bind it if you need it for a bit07:55
timelywhen you're done, just uninstall the deb07:55
johnx:D You love those DNS-adjusting .deb's huh?07:55
timelyi can't remember which one i wrote first :)07:56
timelybut code reuse is code reuse07:56
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zetherooI am wondering why my N800 does not see any of the shared content on the network?09:19
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RST38hAaaargh! N810 ate its battery during the night09:54
Proteoushow did it taste?09:54
karbasnot mine09:54
herwoodgood morning09:59
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herwoodI'm trying to hack the osso file manager. Does someone know that what should I do to make it possible to drag files from the file manager to other widget?10:02
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RST38hSpace station's toilet begins to fail, panic sinking in10:11
RST38hherwood: you probably can't10:11
RST38hat least API does not show any evidence of drag&drop support10:11
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herwoodso is the drag&drop implemented only internally in file manager?10:13
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herwoodI'm having these problems because I'm not familiar with drag&drop functionality :P10:14
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RST38hherwood: I do not think it is implemented in hildon fm10:16
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herwoodRST38h: but it is possible to drag for example files to other directories in fm or am I missing something here?10:19
RST38hyea, you can do it internally10:19
RST38hit is just not exposed10:20
RST38hwait, there may be a way to hack it, let me check10:20
herwoodok thanks10:20
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RST38hherwood: I have checked and none of the hildondesktop windows appear to accept drag&drop events10:23
RST38hlooks like it is not supported after all10:23
RST38hthere is some discussion of drag&drop in hildon, but it all appears to be centered around intra-application functionality10:24
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RST38h[it is your sendmail speaking]10:24
RST38hbtw, whoever was complaining about that mysterious "maemo style guide" recently, I have found it10:25
herwoodRST38h: ok thanks10:25
RST38h(slightly outdated)10:26
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* qwerty12 is happy. I figured out using the powers that be CAL how to fix my <unknown> version string in About. I also figured out how to change it to anything I want.10:45
inzGone to the dark side you have.10:48
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qwerty12Hehe, I was getting tired of reflashing to fix it. Plus my nitro stopped working when the CAL was dodgy, I saw it on the framebuffer output.10:49
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qwerty12That bug reporting tool nokia use internally10:50
qwerty12When a program crashes, it actually tells me what process crashed10:50
qwerty12That's it's value to me10:50
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* qwerty12 will always keep a copy of the first leak of the diablo repo. They leaked out some useful stuff which I never saw again on that repo.10:51
qwerty12kimrhh, Are you around? Sorry about yesterday, my internet got cut off. Did you compile that module?10:55
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kimrhhqwerty12: i am :)10:59
kimrhhqwerty12: i was hoping you would return11:00
qwerty12I'm really sorry :/11:00
qwerty12Did you manage to get that module compiled?11:00
kimrhhqwerty12: no no :) no problem11:00
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kimrhhwell, I think I get the module compiled allright, but when I use modinfo on it, it tells me that it's the wrong arch, and when i try to insmod it on the n810 i get "wrong exec. format" or something like that. But I think I have might tried something stupid. Since I didn't see any .ko file in the dir where I make the module, I just tried to use the .o, but that is wrong isn't it? there should be a .ko somewhere11:02
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hrwqwerty12: OS2010 53.7?11:02
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qwerty12kimrhh, .o files aren't modules. Which module are you trying to compile?11:03
qwerty12hrw, if I wanted to ;p11:03
kimrhhi should mention that I use a dir inside the kernel sources, with a modified Makefile from another place in the kernel source11:03
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kimrhhqwerty12: thought so11:03
kimrhh(when I woke up and was more fresh :)11:03
kimrhhqwerty12: it's a module we use for some research, so our own module. It is working on a Gumstix if you know that device? also an Arm CPU11:04
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qwerty12Ah, yes i've heard of gumstix :)11:05
qwerty12brb, 1 second :)11:05
qwerty12Ok, with an external module, when I just run make on an external, I get "make: *** /lib/modules/2.6.24-17-generic/build: No such file or directory.  Stop."11:07
qwerty12So here is what I did11:07
qwerty12Using nautillus as root (outside scratchbox), I went into /scratchbox/users/faheem/targets/CHINOOK_ARMEL/lib/modules11:08
qwerty12I made a folder called 2.6.24-17-generic but this will differ on your system, check your uname11:09
qwerty12Then I made a symlink of my Nokia kernel folder (kernel-source-rx-34- (it resides in /scratchbox/users/$USER/home/$USER/ for me) and called the symlink build11:11
qwerty12I then moved my new build symlink into the /scratchbox/users/$USER/targets/CHINOOK_ARMEL/lib/modules/2.6.24-17-generic folder11:11
qwerty12Then kernel modules compiled just fine with make and a *.ko file would be in my module folder.11:12
qwerty12I must add that I compiled a Nokia Stock/Generic kernel in my kernel-source-rx-34- to make sure11:12
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JaffaMorning, all11:21
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hrwjo Jaffa11:27
hrwwho will be tomorrow on linuxtag?11:28
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kimrhhqwerty12: kool11:33
kimrhhqwerty12: cool even :)11:33
kimrhhqwerty12: and thx11:33
qwerty12hehe :)11:33
kimrhhI'll try that tonight when I get home to my dev machine11:33
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trickiehrw: i will be11:39
trickiehrw: you?11:39
hrwjust printed tickets11:40
hrwI have to think which bag to get11:40
hrwand to take laptop or not. if I will take it then probably would have to show maemo in qemu...11:40
kimrhhqwerty12: what command did you use to make? "make -C build/ -M=`pwd´ ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux-" or just "make" ? because I don't see how you get a Makefile by doing what you told me there :)11:41
trickiehrw: yes please11:41
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trickiehrw: i have been experiementing with mamona in qemu11:41
trickieusing latest poky .bb's11:41
qwerty12kimrhh, the external modules I compiled already had a makefile :)11:41
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hrwcrap - linuxtag eticket is in german only..11:42
hrwtrickie: qemu on 600MHz x86 is not so fun11:43
trickiehrw: ha ha i could imagine, sometimes not too fun a core duo 2.33 either :)11:44
* qwerty12 hasn't tried on a 2.8GHz core duo with 2gb ram :p11:45
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hrwtrickie: on my athlon64 x2 2.2GHz it was ok.11:45
hrwtrickie: it was even more ok on core2quad 2.4GHz11:45
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trickieyeah its definately usable, i just meant compared to a 600MHz x86 i could imagine11:46
hrwbut this laptop is 1.6GHz working on 600MHz... I suspect cpu fan11:46
trickieouch, that must be frustrating11:46
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hrwtime to look at updating qemu again - n810 keyboard is in now11:50
trickiehrw: yeah i was taking a look at that... trying to get a recent omap kernel working on it11:50
trickieits the OH guys/gals adding that support to qemu yeah?11:51
hrwtrickie: Andrew (irc:balrog) works for OH and is our qemu hacker11:52
hrwhe added Sharp Zaurus, Openmoko neo1973 to qemu and few more11:53
trickiehrw: cool! yeah i have been looking at some of his recent qemu patches11:53
trickiehrw: gonna try get a full emulated sdk for mamona (ala poky style) when i get back from berlin11:54
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GatestoneTrying this out, just installed Scratchbox, now installing the MAEMO SDK...I have Ubuntu, but it was not clear to me if the installation would be straightforward and similar on a Red Hat machine? (Like my vmware Centos installation..)12:14
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qwerty12Not really, sbox and deb prefer to use apt/dpkg/deb based distributions. But it can be installed on a non-deb distro too.12:15
qwerty12*sbox and sdk12:15
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kimrhhqwerty12: hehe ok, could you tell me what they are?12:20
kimrhhqwerty12: then I could still ideas from them12:20
qwerty12There was this module: - after making the symlink, this one compiles brilliantly12:20
* qwerty12 waits for my kernel with CONFIG_TIMER_STATS to compile :/12:22
* qwerty12 now goes and installs strace into initfs12:23
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hrwhi florian12:24
flo_laphi all12:25
hrwflo_lap: how goes LT?12:26
flo_laphrw: not too bad - i guess i can post a photo later :)12:27
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hrwflo_lap: how many stands between OE and T2?12:29
flo_laphrw: two demopoints :)12:30
hrwenough ;)12:30
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* qwerty12 is a tosser. I can't believe I ran halt by accident >.<12:31
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* sp3000 dances12:35
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GatestoneSorry, did anyone answer me? My connection droppe...12:55
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trickieGatestone: its still straight forward but doesn't .debs to install it all12:57
trickiedoesn't use .debs12:57
GatestoneOk, but my next question: can I run a command line hello.c in MAEMo12:58
trickieGatestone: yeah, you can compile it in scratchbox for ARM or x86 in scratchbox12:59
GatestoneSo how? Using the same commands as for maemo_hello.c results in the hello.c running in sbox window, not in a terminal on Xephyr?12:59 ./maemo_hello runs it in sbox...?13:00
GatestoneI mean ./command_line_hello13:01
RST38hwhere do you want to run it?13:01
GatestoneIn a Xephyr terminal Window? Or in a real device Terminal Window?13:01
trickieGatestone: in sb, compile it for ARM, copy it to the device, and then in oss-xterm run it13:03
infobottrickie meant: Gatestone: in sb, compile it for ARM, copy it to the device, and then in osso-xterm run it13:04
GatestoneActually I don't have the device here. How do I run it in a Xephyr window?13:04
GatestoneShould I install osso-xterm first to the Xephyr environment? How?13:05
GatestoneSorry but is my first night with this...13:05
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GatestoneMy Application manager seems to do nothing? Shows no available packages?13:06
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GatestoneI am currentlyu compiling for CHINOOK-X8613:09
GatestoneHow do I get osso-xterm running?13:09
qwerty12You don't need it, you use the scratchbox to run commands13:10
GatestoneBut I want to see my command line programs running in the Xephyr Window?13:11
qwerty12hrw, is config partition checksummed?13:11
GatestoneSo pretending it a the real device?13:11
hrwqwerty12: no idea13:11
qwerty12ah, ok thanks.13:12
qwerty12It's meant for real device but I've installed in sbox fine13:12
qwerty12use dpkg13:12
qwerty12and make sure you apt-get the ttf-bitstream-vera too13:12
GatestoneSo in  scratchbox I can use apt-get?13:13
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trickieGatestone: also the SDK stuff is not an emulator, so things maybe behave differently or not at all13:14
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GatestoneOk, just to test I tried to apt-get install osso-clock, but it gives errors about permissions...13:16
Gatestonesudo apt-get... says "sudo must be setuid root"?13:17
GatestoneShould i use sudo with apt-get in Scratchbox or not?13:17
Gatestone"FAKEROOTKEY not defined..." ? I mean I try "fakeroot apt-get..."13:18
Gatestoneok, I got it!13:19
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GatestoneSo I got osso-clock installed wth apt-get. How do I run it in Xephyr Window?13:20
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GatestoneBTW, The Control panel on Xephyr opens an empty Window...13:25
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GatestoneIs it normal that there is no Control Panel ('/usr/share/applications/hildon-control-panel': No such file or directory in Scratchbox and empty Control Panel window in Xephyr)13:30
qwerty12Yes. The SDK is not an emulator. I once had a working control panel and I still don't see why I bothered.13:30
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GatestoneSo, can you test MAEMO apps on the SDK or not? Do you really need the device?13:34
GatestoneAnd moreover: if I just manage to compile things in the Scratchbox, does it mean that basically they should run also on the device?13:35
trickieGatestone: you can test and compile for the target device but is not an emulator13:37
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GatestoneI mean that like the libraries and dependencies can  be tested? So if my programs run in the sbox, they are not using functionality that would not be available on MAEMO devices?13:38
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trickieyes libs and deps etc can be tested, and its where you can do your packaging13:40
trickiei suggest reading through the documents available at maemo.org13:40
trickieexplains alot about ti13:40
GatestoneWell, I read the tutorials but looks like it is not so easy...13:41
GatestoneAt least not to be grasped on one night with no prior experience in cross-compiled environments..13:41
trickieyes you are probably right13:42
trickieits not like developing a pc dekstop app13:42
hrwtrickie: unless you have all libs and wole environment compiled for x86 and run it in xephyr13:43
hrwteuthen you can forget about scratchbox and do development.13:44
hrwbut I do not know does it is possible with maemo13:44
trickieyes true13:44
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RST38hGalestone: Need a shortcut?13:49
RST38hGalestone: 1) Install MaemoSDK+ (based on sb2)  2) Compile stuff as you would on your host system, but add "sb2" in front of gcc and other tools 3) When compiled, copy binary to the tablet using scp and run it using ssh13:50
RST38hAnd, probably, 4)Avoid using autoconf and friends13:51
GatestoneI don't have the device, I was hoping to use CHINOOK-X86 and Xephyr13:52
hrwautotools and friends are good company13:54
hrwif maemo does not handle them properly then maemo is broken13:54
RST38hGatestone: these are braindamaged, unfortunately13:54
RST38hhrw: it handles them properly13:55
RST38hhrw: the main problem is the amount of garbage they create in your project directory13:55
RST38hCFLAGS = `sb2 pkg-config gtk+-2.0 gconf-2.0 libosso hildon-1  hildon-fm-2 --cfl13:56
RST38hags --libs`13:56
RST38hOr something of this kind.13:56
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MangoFusionsometimes i wish the maemo sdk was as good as the iphone sdk ;)13:58
wazdiPhone SDK suxx14:00
wazdit's like you're sitting in the sanbox14:00
wazdwith highvoltage walls14:00
trickieGatestone: an alternative if you just want to start playing with hildon etc is
Veggenwazd: Apple has never been a proponent of open systems and freedom, no.14:01
trickieGatestone: then you can use a dev setup similar to what hrw described above14:01
wazdIt's good nicely designed sandbox14:01
RST38hMango: I.e. you wish it came with a toilet plunger?14:01
wazdwith good sand and pretty forms :)14:01
wazdBut with armed guards by the perrimeter14:01
Veggenwazd: Exactly. That's apple for you. The only reason they're better than MS is that their solutions are technically better, but they14:01
Veggen're not more open.14:02
trickieGatestone: ie. platform compiled for x86 that runs under a xephyr instance14:02
wazdBut iPhone SDK is still better for UI designing :(14:02
trickieGatestone: i think anyway.. as i have not tried it14:02
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fysasee: webkit14:09
fysaimagine Microsoft opening any part of IE.14:09
glassVeggen: apple are the lock-in kings..14:10
fysathey just know when to pick their battles.14:10
glassif steve could choose, all osx soft would be sold on itunes14:11
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MangoFusioni don't really have much of an issue with the sandboxing. it's not as if i'd want to jump out and read a load of files or anything14:11
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RST38hfysa: Microsoft opened part of IE14:16
RST38hMango: Do you have an issue with having to pay $100 to Jobs just to distribute your program?14:17
RST38hMaybe you happen to have an issue with the fact that Apple may refuse distributing your program at any moment, telling you to go fuck yourself?14:18
MangoFusionnot if i am making money out of it ;)14:18
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RST38hLet us say you are making money out of it but then Apple says "go fuck yourself"14:18
RST38hWill this be satisfactory for you?14:18
MangoFusionthat would be quite unfortunate. i'd hope that they were quite lenient as to what they find acceptable to distribute14:19
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RST38hThey will not be14:19
MangoFusionbut hey - there are plenty of other platforms to target14:20
RST38hFor example, Sun can't port its Java to iPhone because Apple SDK licensing terms explicitely prohibit virtual machine development14:20
MangoFusionincluding just the browser14:20
glassRST38h: i don't have an issue with paying to apple or 30% of revenue share going to them, thats not actually too bad distributors share nowadays..14:21
RST38hYea, you can target a different platform. But then, what does Apple SDK have to do with it?14:21
glassRST38h: the issue is as you say is them being the one to choose what you can do or not14:21
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RST38hglass: I pay ~11% to my CC processor14:21
glassRST38h: talking about mobile soft distribution in general14:21
RST38h30% is a lot if all they do is placing your program onto some ftp-like server14:21
glassRST38h: sms etc, or cc where there are multiple hands in between14:22
MangoFusionone can see why that is prohibited as they would be loosing money from licensing as developers could just skip them when distributing14:22
RST38hglass: you don'tneed most of this crap14:22
glassRST38h: handling the sms stuff with the 300+ operators14:22
RST38hWhy do you need sms stuff?14:22
glassRST38h: for mobile convinient payments14:23
RST38hMango: Well, they would be losing money anyway, after all, they COULD WRITE ï¤ALL THES PROGRAMTHEMSELVES! :)14:23
glassRST38h: handango etc take 30% with cc too14:23
RST38hglass: That is why I broke dist deal with Handango14:23
RST38hglass: They don't sell a shit, charge 30%, and behave like if they are some kind of AT&T14:23
MangoFusionin any case, will be interesting to see how the app store pans out14:24
glassRST38h: do they even still have proper sms payments?14:24
RST38hglass: No idea14:24
MangoFusionor even if it will be replicated on other platforms (e.g. maemo)14:24
glassRST38h: anyways, sms, wap etc payments are needed for selling the high volume entertainment shit14:24
glassRST38h: doesn't matter that much for more sophisticated apps14:24
RST38hWAP - no longer being used14:25
RST38hSMS - well, may be14:25
glassRST38h: but most game publishers etc don't see that much of the revenue14:25
RST38hfor ringtones :)14:25
glassRST38h: for registering stuff etc sms is used too14:25
glassand games14:25
RST38hglass: actually, I can run SMS distribution out of my house14:26
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RST38hEven wrote the software for that14:26
glassRST38h: and make the deals with every operator on the planet yourself? true you can cover a lot of them with something like ericcson ipx14:26
glassit's not the soft thats the problem14:26
glassbut the deals..14:26
RST38hIt is kind of pointless though14:26
RST38hglass: I only need a phone to send SMS messages14:26
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glassRST38h: to receive payments with it14:27
RST38hCan't do payments easily14:27
RST38hbut distribution - no problem14:27
glassyes thats not a problem14:27
glass(anyways, i work in a company involved in this)14:27
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mgedmin810anyone at linuxtag?14:33
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* hrw goes tomorrow14:34
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hrwhave to wake ~6 inthe morning14:34
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* qwerty12_N800 is pissed off that messenger service is disappeared in my xp :/14:41
hrwKotCzarny: sure14:42
hrwKotCzarny: people mostly think about such acts as music/video/software piracy14:43
hrwI wonder does people going to US would have to take all NDA papers for NDA files on their laptops to prove that they are worth reading them14:43
KotCzarnyi like 'right to destruct' part14:43
KotCzarnyhrw, it's not us, it's canada+eu+jp14:44
qwerty12_N800eu? shit.14:44
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hrwKotCzarny: first it has to be signed by eu countries14:46
KotCzarnybut i will be14:46
KotCzarnysooner or later14:46
KotCzarnybe it 5 or 25 years14:47
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hrwtime to invest into high bandwidth lines to china or africa14:48
KotCzarnybad idead14:49
KotCzarnychina could kill you for 'piracy'14:49
KotCzarnyand africa.. heh14:49
RST38hhrw: Here is something you have to know14:49
KotCzarnyit's being destroyed14:49
RST38hhrw: Whether EU signs this stuff or not, US court has decided that US customs have a right to seach your whole HD and other storage, same as your physical belongings14:50
RST38hhrw: And they don't care if you carry any industrial secrets, etc.14:50
hrwRST38h: USA is country on a list of countries which I do not plan to visit14:51
hrwfirst place on a list14:51
RST38hIf you have encrypted stuff, they will ask you for a key and have a right to keep your hardware for an undefined period of time14:51
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RST38hWell, just in case you have to go there14:51
hrwRST38h: and if I would have to then I would take my laptop without any harddrive/pendrive etc and will buy harddisk locally + debian install cd14:51
RST38hMake sure you do not carry any sensitive stuff on your HD :)14:51
RST38hhrw: THAT will surely make them think you are planning something! =)14:52
KotCzarnyor have a backup14:52
hrwthe problem is that such hdd would have to stay iin us to not give me any problems on passing border next time14:52
qwerty12_N800hrw, I like that idea :>14:53
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hrwqwerty12_N800: it came to my mind when I first time read about problem14:53
hrwI even have crap enough phone to not have anything illegal to put on it14:54
hrwnokia 6230i or something - never used it for calling14:54
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hrwno storage for files (as no mmc card inside slot)14:55
RST38hyou can juststore stuff online and access it with scp14:55
hrwsshfs does not handle ports other then 22 ;(14:55
RST38hThey still do not have right to force this information out of you while you are inside the country14:55
KotCzarnyhrw no?14:55
KotCzarny-p port14:55
RST38hYou have a right not to incriminate yourself14:55
hrwKotCzarny: hm. last time when I checked I missed it14:55
hrwmy home machine is not on 2214:56
KotCzarnyor -o port=PORT14:56
KotCzarnytry sshfs -h14:56
hrw40 minutes to have a copy of maemo image for qemu..14:56
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hrwand 2h to end qemu compilation ;(14:56
qwerty12_N800what machine? took me 1/2 hour :(14:57
hrwpentium-M 600MHz with 5400rpm disk14:57
KotCzarnyhrw, just bump speed temporarily14:58
patohwouldn't suck much power but :D14:58
teenelI used mplayer -ac mad to play video but there's no sound in my n800, the audio is code by lame. I also tried ffmp3 and dspmp3, no help14:58
hrwKotCzarny: bumping to 1.6GHz switch back to 600 in less then 1s14:59
KotCzarnyhrw, switch to userspace cpufreq?14:59
ssvbteenel: do you have a log from mplayer?15:00
hrwand when I think that 5-6 years ago my desktop was even slower... duron/600 with 128MB ram15:00
KotCzarnyhrw, i remember my thinkpad did something similiar when switching power options in bios15:01
KotCzarnyie. locking cpu to 600-1000 (instead of 600-1600)15:01
hrwKotCzarny: in bios it is set to fastest possible15:01
teenelssvb:it said mad cann't codec the audio format15:01
KotCzarnyand lowering other things too15:01
KotCzarnytry another kernel version?15:01
teenelssvb: but I can use mad to decode the audio format in my PC15:02
hrwKotCzarny: 2.6.24-rc7 2.6.25-rc1 2.6.26-rc4 all have same. it ws working fine before15:02
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KotCzarnytry speedstep-centrino instead of acpi-cpufreq ?15:03
ssvbteenel: run mplayer with -v option and post this log somewhere (probably even to garage mplayer tracker)15:04
hrwspeedstep-centrino fails to load15:04
hrwKotCzarny: it is ICH4 with 855GM. 3.5 years old15:04
KotCzarnyi know15:04
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KotCzarnymine too15:04
KotCzarnywell, 855PM15:05
teenelssvb: thank you15:05
KotCzarnybut ich4 too15:05
KotCzarnyhrw: tried looking for another acpi versions?15:05
hrw855GM+ICH4-M to be exact15:05
hrwKotCzarny: other dsdt you mean?15:06
hrwdid not looked for15:07
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hrwalso have to find a moment to update bios back to last ver15:07
KotCzarnyyou should try looking into it15:08
hrwid=760 is my laptop15:09
hrwwill test15:09
KotCzarnybut cpufreq detects all speeds15:11
hrwsure - just stuck at 600-60015:11
KotCzarnywhat happens on userspace ?15:11
hrwnevermind which governor - 600-600 is stuck15:12
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hrwnext time I will take linux cd to test does laptop export battery/ac/fan/thermal etc before buy15:13
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KotCzarnywell, ibm x3[0-2] doesn't have a problem15:13
KotCzarnywith x31 and x32 you can even undervolt it15:13
KotCzarny(only way to reach 46C == fan off)15:13
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hrwKotCzarny: this laptop at 1.6GHz with heavy load was getting 80°C and over it15:31
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GatestoneHow do I run ARM binaries in scratchbox? I compiled hello_world.c and running it says "SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set"15:36
GatestoneWhat should I set there?15:37
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GatestoneShoudl I use qemu....something to run the ARM binary?15:38
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KotCzarnyhrw: mine did that with 1.8ghz and poor ventilation15:39
johnxit should be set by default if your target is armel15:39
KotCzarnyand without undervolting15:39
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johnxgah...neither of you have it as bad as my poor P4 laptop O_o15:40
KotCzarnypentium-m are nice15:40
johnx95f is not uncommon for me to see15:40
johnxerrr...95c rather :/15:40
KotCzarny95f would be good15:40
johnxyeah really15:40
johnxmy A64 desktop is close to that :D15:41
hrwjohnx: p4 suxx always15:41
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* GAN800 fries eggs on johnx's laptop.15:41
GatestoneIf I look up target info, it sasy CPU transparency "none". So what should I do to get qemu-arm or something in place?15:41
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johnxhrw, no, really? :P15:41
johnxI got that laptop for free because the last guy who had it hated it so much he never used it anymore15:43
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Gatestoneok, I did not do sbox_ctl start as it works15:46
GatestoneI can emulate  ARM15:46
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KotCzarnyheh, freeeestuuuuffff15:49
* KotCzarny got toshiba magnia sg20 for free15:49
KotCzarnyalso because of hateness15:49
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johnxyeah...using my n800 is almost infinitely preferable to using that P4 toshiba15:51
johnxit weighs 9 freakin' pounds!15:51
hrwbut still can be used as file/printer server at home15:51
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johnxhrw, if I could trust it15:52
johnxI wouldn't let any files I care about anywhere near it15:52
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andre___hmm. looks i can attend LinuxTag too. nice.16:52
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* nomis will leave for berlin in about half an hour.17:07
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GAN8001OK, there's my UI spec rant for the day. . . . <_<17:18
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JaffaGAN8001: And a marvellous rant it is. I especially like the mythical rabbit17:24
GAN8001"Don't accept"17:25
GAN8001Who is he kidding? <_<17:25
JaffaIndeed, somewhat scoff worthy.17:25
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johnxI like the idea of sitting in front of my computer "not accepting" your answers17:26
infobotjohnx meant: I like the idea of sitting in front of my computer "not accepting" their answers17:27
GAN8001Getting into a "fix this" "I can't" "fix it anyway" "I can't" with an engineer isn't my idea of productive bug work.17:27
johnx...kind of like giving Nokia the silent treatment :D17:27
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GAN8001Hehe, johnx. <whiney three-year-old>NO! DO IT!</whiney three-year-old>17:27
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johnxNokia, until you fix bug #3161 I won't talk to you. :P17:28
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johnxalso, has anyone else seen high memory usage and eventual system slowdown involving browersd on diablo?17:29
GAN8001Not particularly, but I haven't paid much attention.17:29
||cwsimply "i can't" isn't an acceptable answer... I hope you had a good reason behind it, like "i can't without rewriting 90% of the the backend"17:29
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GAN8001||cw, the "I can't" answer is follow by "because the UI spec says . . ."17:29
qwerty12_N800johnx, me.17:30
||cwrefile the bug as a UI spec problem17:30
qwerty12_N800shit slows down the rest of the n800. browser is a step back from chinook''s.17:30
johnxqwerty12_N800, can you reproduce it consistently?17:30
GAN8001||cw, that wasn't possible until two days ago.17:30
johnxotherwise I'll bash on it tonight and see if I can...17:31
qwerty12_N800just go on a heavy site and open another window :/17:31
johnxah...I can get it with one window and only browser open :/17:31
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fysacheck your about:config settings17:32
qwerty12_N800johnx, same here but it's  consistant like that :/17:32
GAN8001Did we decide that bugzilla was a good place to request sources?17:33
johnxfysa, my only local modifcations are minimum font size bumps17:33
qwerty12_N800no mods here17:33
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fysamaybe the defaults are bad.17:33
qwerty12_N800it's browserd that is bad17:33
fysaare you using debian/xfce daily, johnx?17:34
johnxfysa, nope.17:34
johnxdefinitely not :)17:34
WorkingOnWisegood morning all17:34
johnxI prefer hildon/matchbox . I did the xfce release for people who seemed interested in that sort of thing17:34
WorkingOnWisejohnx:  what stops you from using it daily?17:35
qwerty12_N800anyone know anything else that is useless in initfs? need to  shove a strace binary in there.17:35
johnxeh...usability, polish, available apps, power management,17:35
WorkingOnWisewow....thats a show stopper list ... power management especially17:36
fysahildon/matchbox on debian, or maemo? :)17:36
GAN8001qwerty12_N800, bme, you should delete that. :P17:36
qwerty12_N800Nah! :p17:36
WorkingOnWiseguess I shouldnt waste my time looking there for my maemo alternative huh?17:36
fysastill longing for webkit17:36
GAN8001Somebody needs to put together a non-shit frontend for the one that's in Extras, fysa.17:37
johnxfysa, either17:37
WorkingOnWiseno disresoect to you johnx.. thad didnt come out right at all17:37
johnxWorkingOnWise, it's worth a try, but if you want a ready to go solution it's not ready yet17:37
WorkingOnWisedisrespect either17:37
johnxthat's ok. I didn't perceive it as disrespect17:38
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johnxI'll be the first to admit it's not ready for prime-time yet17:38
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WorkingOnWisejohnx: do you know much about the ubuntu ports?17:38
johnxWorkingOnWise, that it's 99% Debian, except without official support from the package maintainers?17:39
johnx;) or did you mean something else?17:39
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GAN8001OK, I just went for it.17:40
WorkingOnWisei read a blurb saying some conical devs were porting fiesty and gutsy to the N8x0 series.17:40
GAN8001I'd really like to see this get somewhere:
WorkingOnWisecan-whatever its spelled17:40
johnxWorkingOnWise, I heard it was actually INDT guys who started it. but feisty/gutsy are old now. Debian is up-to-date17:41
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johnxI'm waiting for someone to give a good answer why they would choose ubuntu over debian on embedded ARM...17:42
fysathe nvidia ARM releases look promising.17:42
WorkingOnWisethat was kind of my thought. and why port 2 versions? exciting to see another option, but wondering if it is a "because we can" kind of project....17:42
qwerty12_N800 johnx17:42
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johnx qwerty12_N800!17:43
qwerty12_N800because i want to! :p17:43
johnxWorkingOnWise, I get that feeling too. :/17:43
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qwerty12_N800sorry, i pressed tab and then enter by accident :/17:43
WorkingOnWiseit is looking like penguinbaits KDE  is the most reasonable alternative right now.17:43
GAN8001Today should be "Do Whatever I Want To" day17:43
WorkingOnWiseit is GAN8001 isnt it?17:44
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GAN8008Because I want to.17:45
WorkingOnWiseis there a reasonable way to develop for maemo on Windows with Visual Studio?17:45
pupnik810lcuk here?17:45
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NaviWorkingOnWise, :|17:47
WorkingOnWiseI ask because it is what I have, and I just cant cut to Linux till I get a more capable laptop.17:47
||cwWorkingOnWise: and then what tools would you use on linux?17:48
qwerty12_N800er, linux runs better on crap hardware than windows17:48
WorkingOnWisethere ae a few apps I need dailr that only run in windows, so it means running xp or vista virtualixed pretty much all the time17:48
GAN8008Navi and qwerty12_N800 would know better than anybody with their crap hardware. :P17:48
WorkingOnWiseqwerty12_N800: it does, till you run a windows vm and break linux's knees with it :)17:49
qwerty12_N800GAN8008, Says the person with a mac :p17:49
GAN8008Ooooh BUUUUUURN17:49
qwerty12_N800I feel for navi17:49
qwerty12_N800though :p17:49
qwerty12_N800256mb ram...17:49
GAN8008He brought it on himself.17:50
WorkingOnWise||cw: I would imagine eclipse or KDevelop17:50
NaviNo need to feel for me17:50
johnxeh...that's 4 times as much as one of my build boxes...17:50
||cwthere' a win32 version of eclipse isn't there?17:50
||cwand you could always use vmware17:50
NaviI don't use more than 20MB without X17:50
qwerty12_N800it's java17:50
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WorkingOnWise||cw: never bothered to look to be honest. I think the biger thing would be scratchbox wouldnt it?17:51
WorkingOnWisein a Windows enviroment?17:51
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||cwI don't see the scratchbox vmware image using all that much ram17:52
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WorkingOnWiseI'm missing something here I think. ||cw are you saying I could run scratchbox via vmware image on Windows?17:53
WorkingOnWiseor did I totally miss that flight?17:53
||cwyes, there's a premade one17:53 that simplifies things.17:54
||cwI think this is the official page
WorkingOnWiseso barring any lack of competence on my part, I could use VS or Eclipse in Windows to develop for Maemo, using the vmware image to run the build environment. Right?17:56
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johnxyes...or just use eclipse inside the vmware image17:56
||cwthe vmware image include ecplise too17:56
WorkingOnWiseoh...that was slick of whoever did that!17:57's a whole system ready to go17:57
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WorkingOnWiseso I have this shiney new Visual Studio 2008 gifted by Microsoft and still no need for it!17:58
WorkingOnWisedamn Open Source!17:58
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johnxgive it as a christmas present maybe?17:58
qwerty12I have 2003 somewhere gifted by RS...17:58
johnxyour grandpa might like it17:58
WorkingOnWisewent to the launch or Win Serv 2008 2 weeks ago. Git that and Vista Ultimate17:59
qwerty12He could make a reminder program to clean the false teeth...17:59
WorkingOnWiseand a nifty soft side lunch bag17:59
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WorkingOnWisesee, at thos prices, I dont mind crap software so much.18:00
WorkingOnWiseI'm off to play with maemo. Thanks guys18:00
johnxsure, have fun :D18:00
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nomeatahi. i’m trying to use maemo-mapper on os2007 hacker edition (n770) with a bluetooth gps dongle. maemo-mapper runs fine, displays maps and finds the device when I scan for it. But when I try to connect, it tries for a while and then displays an error "GPSD not found". do I need to have GPSD running even for a bluetooth dongle?18:09
nomeatashould maemo-mapper start it by itself, or can I help somehow?18:12
* trickie is off to linuxtag! ciao!18:12
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qwerty12I'm not actually sure how it works on os2007. (Never used it :/). On OS2008, I have GPS control panel.18:12
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nomeatahmm. when I try to start rfcomm and  gpsd manually from the command line, it does not work ("illegal instruction")18:13
hrwnomeata: run prefs in maemo-mapper and add gps as BT device18:14
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nomeatahrw: I tried that, it finds the device, but when I activate it it gives me the GPSD error18:15
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nomeatahrw: if I select bluetooth there, does this mean that maemo-mapper (tries to) set up gpsd itself, or that it talks to the dongle without gpsd?18:17
hrwprobably directly18:19
hrwnever used with bt gps18:19
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hrwI hope that someone at maemo part of LT will have laptop - mine is too slow to show n800 qemu maemo18:37
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qwerty12Who else has a config partition working with it?18:38
qwerty12(OS2008 that is, not poky)18:38
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hrwI will take qemu binaries + maemo image with me18:39
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hrwwill only need machine with working usb port to show it (linux 32bit/x86 capable)18:39
hrwdebian 'sid' or ubuntu 7.10+18:39
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hrwon my laptop boot of it would take >10 minutes18:41
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GAN8001hrw, it'd be really sad if there weren't a single usable laptop around at a conference like LinuxTag. :D18:48
hrwmy d400 is fscking slow now18:49
hrw600MHz suxx18:49
johnxyour n810 is pretty close to that :)18:49
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konttoriGAN8001: If you're at linuxtag, come to nokia booth tomorrow.18:50
konttoriI'm at there all day18:50
johnxso, hrw, what are your thoughts on the "Open Pandora" linux handheld?18:50
GAN8001Nah, I'm remaining in the States18:50
GAN8001Tickets are expensive. :P18:50
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hrwjohnx: first let them release it18:51
johnxfair enough :)18:51
hrwjohnx: then we will talk. now it is prototype maybe18:51
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hrwjohnx: look at beagleboard from TI guys - thats interesting device18:52
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johnxdefinitely, just saw that the other day18:52
hrwand this one exists \18:52
hrwand is fully supported by OpenEmbedded18:52
johnxI don't think it will survive long in my pocket though :/18:53
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GAN8001BeagleBoard looks cool as a home server of some sort, though.18:53
johnxor even a mobile server18:53
johnxor if you feel really geeky, a good start to a wearable computer18:54
GAN8001Certainly be quieter than the 2001 Quicksilver tower I'm using now.18:54
qwerty12Can anyone with a N8*0 with US wifi frequences run cat /dev/mtd1ro | grep wlan-tx-gen plz? Mine is reported as wlan-tx-gen2, I wonder if it is different on another N800.18:54
johnxqwerty12, I see the same thing18:54
qwerty12Ah, thanks18:55
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hrwhave a nice evening and rest of week18:58
hrwsee you on linuxtag guys18:58
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johnxqwerty12, I don't see many interesting strings :/18:59 mtd1ro18:59
qwerty12It's config partition where CAL is stored. After I can get a cold flasher cable, I plan to try and reflash my own :/18:59
johnxGAN800, that is quite interesting once I figured out what was going on O_o19:00
johnxis that the beagleboard?19:00
* GAN8001 wants NOA19:01
unixSnobqwerty12: I see wlan-tx-gen319:02
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qwerty12unixSnob, mind running osso-product-info and saying what WLAN_CHANNEL is? thanks19:03
unixSnobqwerty12: ha.. I was just messing with you.. I saw wlan-tx-gen2 too :)19:03
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qwerty12hehe, I thought you were serious :p19:03
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unixSnobi just wanted to see if you would get excited about seeing another version.. though I have no idea what this string is19:04
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GAN8001Mmm . . . this Beagle is hot.19:10
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GAN8001It's mildly disheartening that all the new OMAP3 devices I've seen have the same amount of NAND/RAM as the N8x0. . . .19:11
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johnxa little, but that seems to be par for the course in embedded ARM land19:12
pupnik810keesj, huhu19:12
johnxat least we're bumped to 128MB now19:12
GAN8001Fortunately it doesn't seem OMAP dependent.19:13
GAN8001"The Beagle uses the OMAP3 version ES2.1. It is in a .4mm pitch POP package. POP (Package on Package) is a technique where the memory, NAND and SDRAM, are mounted on top of the OMAP3. For this reason, when looking at the Beagle, you will not find an actual part labeled OMAP3."19:13
pupnik810ti is showing beagleboard at ltag here19:13
GAN8001"A 4 pin DIN connector is provided to access the S-Video output of the Beagle. This is a separate output from the OMAP processor and can contain different video output data from what is found on the DVI-D output."19:14
GAN8001pupnik810, lotsa pics plz? :D19:14
johnxman, it's almost like this whole linux thing is starting to catch on :D19:15
pupnik810cam is chrgin19:15
pupnik810i hope19:15
GAN8001pupnik810, you there?19:15
pupnik810lots of cute females actually19:15
pupnik810yeah  the bgl is tiiiny19:16
pupnik810i will film the beagle demo 4 u19:18
GAN8001pupnik810, thanks!19:18
johnxyeah, thanks pupnik :D19:19
GAN8001The OMAP3 is rather disturbingly small19:19
GAN8001Page 35 is nicely labelled.19:20
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johnxhmm...that would make a darn nice start to a wearable computer19:22
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johnxsony had some nice glasses to provide a heads-up display too19:26
GAN8001The price is beyond perfect.19:26
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qwerty12Man, qemu does take a crapload of time to compile :/19:37
GAN8001You and your shit hardware. :P19:37
qwerty12And as soon as I said that, it finished 8-)19:37
qwerty12Nah, 2.8GHz 2 core and 2gb ram baby19:37
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qwerty12Although my old computer was too chungg, 700mhz and 128mb ram... ripped it apart and used it to softmod the xbox and binned the old computer...19:38
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* johnx enjoys using his a shell account on his friend's machine for compiling 8)19:39
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qwerty12Aww, johnx's computer is too crap for the job :p19:40
johnxit works fine, but this lets me do 2 compiles at once19:40
johnxor one compile without slowing down my computer :)19:41
johnxanyways, a quad core phenom chews through compile way quicker than your desktop or mine :P19:41
qwerty12of course :p19:41
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johnxheh...except when it hard-locks while compiling glibc and it's a little far away to run over and reboot -_-19:42
pupnik810odd im the only guy at ltag with xchat19:45
qwerty12xchat pwns19:45
pupnik810wheres keesj19:45
GAN800Go and beat the up with the .deb, pupnik. :D19:46
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woojjobis it possible to make php server on n8x019:48
qwerty12Bollox. I *thought* I was compiling qemu with n800 emulation but it seems like the binary isn't there.19:48
johnxwoojjob, I think so19:48
pupnik810well if lcuk or keesj show up here im in room 40219:48
johnxqwerty12, shouldn't it just be part of qemu-system-arm?19:49
woojjobit.s good19:49
qwerty12johnx, Dunno, I'm compiling qemu from cvs with hrw's patch. Just gonna have to look around :/19:49
johnxright, so it should make a binary called qemu-system-arm that can emulate an n800...19:50
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qwerty12That's great: "svn: URL '' doesn't exist". Until:
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Anunakinhi all!19:58
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AnunakinAny here using Debian? on N810?19:59
* qwerty12 uses Debian on N80019:59
johnxAnunakin, yup :)19:59
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johnxsorry, didn't read that completely. I'm using it on an n80020:01
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johnxhave a question?20:03
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AnunakinI talking with qwerty1220:07
* qwerty12 is clueless I have to add20:07
Anunakinabout patch X, to have middle and left mouse clicks20:07
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johnxso you want to rebuild xomap with your middle/right click patch?20:08
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Anunakinbut ... we have Xomap sources?20:09
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AnunakinThe patchs files for X ... we can found on pdaXrom project...20:09
AnunakinThere are more... like a handwriter tool for X20:10
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AnunakinA light plugin to use with kernel 2.6... this uses python ...20:11
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johnxxomap sources are here:
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AnunakinThis plugin controls backlight20:14
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AnunakinWe can patch it for write to /sys/devices/platform/omapfb/panel/backlight_level20:14
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woojjobgood daybreak20:32
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RST38hall right20:36
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* johnx watches python-hildon compile on debian/armel20:44
Navigot hildonness working?20:45
johnxlibhildon is in debian proper20:45
johnxtinymail and modest are being packaged by someone else20:45
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Naviso you have modest running?20:45
johnxso I decided to take a swing at repackaging python-hildon and seeing how many apps will "just work"20:45
johnxnot yet20:46
johnxwaiting on someone else to finish with libtinymail packaing20:46
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johnxactually, it should be pretty easy to do a quick/dirty job...but more work to bring it up to debian standards20:47
summatusmentiswoot! feeds are up!20:47
ultralordHola. En su día recibi el cupon de descuento para comprar el N810. Donde lo puedo solicitar de nuevo? Gracias.20:47
ultralordLo perdi20:48
Navifeeds for what?20:48
summatusmentisNavi: the repos20:48
summatusmentisultralord: hablas ingles? nosotros preferemos hablar en ingles20:48
summatusmentisNavi: for whateve reason, I couldn't download any packages last night20:49
GAN8001Navi, #319120:49
GAN8001Er, #3194, rather20:49
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ultralordHello, a time ago I received a coupon of discount. In order to buy the N810. There am it lost. Where I can ask for it again? Thanks.20:51
GAN8001ultralord, email Nokia support.20:51
GAN8001Expires in June, as far as I know.20:52
GAN8001So act fast.20:52
* gnuSnob wonders what the n810 promo was20:53
GAN8001gnuSnob, it wasn't a "promo", really20:53
GAN8001It's the discount program for developers and community folks.20:53
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ultralordThanks, already I have sent a request to the Support of Nokia. To see if it responds to me.20:58
ultralordLike the code of discount, as it is the price of the N810?20:59
GAN8001ultralord, (assuming I read the question correctly) the N810 should go for about $160 USD with the discount code.21:01
RST38hAnybody knows why a brand new N810 would refuse to power up after flashing it with the latest firmware?21:01
GAN8001Low battery?21:02
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NaviNo battery?21:03
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GAN8001Somebody stole the insides? :P21:03
johnxthat's not an n810, it's actually a dead badger?21:03
GAN8001Put your glasses on, RST38h. :P21:04
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RST38hNo, seems ok otherwise21:13
RST38hTurns on every now and then, seemingly at random21:13
RST38h(but still after pressing the power key of course :))21:14
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kimrhhdoes anyone have a simple Makefile for making a C app to the ARMEL target?21:23
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johnxkimrhh, you want to cross compile? or compile natively on am arm machine?21:24
kimrhhjohnx: cross, it's for the n81021:24
kimrhhand I'm no autotools expert myself :)21:24
johnxso you're not using scratchbox?21:24
kimrhhjohnx: well yes, but reading through the docs I can't find an example Makefile, guess I could grap one from one of the .deb packages21:26
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kimrhhsince this is only 1 .c file21:26
johnxif you're in scratchbox you can just act as if you're compiling natively and it should "just work" (tm)21:26
kimrhhand not something that should be installed on other n810s I actually just the the right gcc command21:26
kimrhhjohnx: aha21:27
kimrhhfancy :)21:27
kimrhhlet me try that21:27
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Navijohnx, illegal use of trademarks21:30
* Navi arrests johnx21:30
johnxto quote slashdot tags goodluckwiththat21:31
Naviobconf takes up a huge amount of ram caching everything :21:31
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johnxthough, to be honest, I assumed that comment in red in my IRC window was going to say "illegal instruction"21:31
johnxI actually had to reread it to figure out what was going on21:32
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GatestoneGreeting from Vancouver, we are trying install Maemo here in the class...21:33
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GAN8001Hi, Vancouver. :P21:37
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ReKlipzA question: I've enabled R&D Mode on my n810. without installing ssh, how can I access the root account, and what is the default password?21:39
Rimdar_KlallPlease help me, I just accidentally revealed my password21:39
Rimdar_Klallhow do I change it!21:39
qwerty12_N800ReKlipz, sudo gainroot21:39
johnxReKlipz, yup, no root password is set by default21:40
qwerty12_N800no default password if you don't have ssh21:40
ReKlipzso, it's just "enter"?21:40
NaviReKlipz, on IRC?21:40
NaviRimdar_Klall, on IRC?21:40
johnxReKlipz, sudo gainroot<enter>21:40
johnxRimdar_Klall, run passwd21:40
Navijohnx, running passwd doesn't help if it's for IRC :P21:41
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johnxNavi, since this is #maemo I figured it was tablet related. :shrugs:21:42
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ReKlipzis there anyway to connect to a network via usb instead of wlan? the wlan doesnt seem to be very good with my n810...21:43
johnxReKlipz, yup. It's called usbnet.21:43
GAN8001ReKlipz, your router may not like the wifi powersaving21:45
GAN8001You could try turning it off.21:45
ReKlipzthe WLAN idle time?21:46
ReKlipzit is set to unlimited21:46
johnxReKlipz, nope, in advanced21:46
ReKlipzadvanced is where?21:47
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ReKlipzah, found it21:47
johnxcontrol panel -> connectivity -> connections -> select your ap -> edit -> next, next, next, advanced21:47
ReKlipzyeah, it's specific to AP21:47
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johnxit's a well kept secret O_o21:48
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ReKlipzi think it's just crappy signal strength, we're in the process of redoing the whole network, wired and all. Is there support for 802.1x authentication (specifically RADIUS)21:49
Navidun steel mah seeckrehts21:49
GAN8001ReKlipz, it pretends it's specific, but it's actually a global setting21:51
GAN8001There's a bug somewhere. . . .21:51
johnxGAN800, it's part of the UI spec :D21:51
Naviyay UI spec21:51
johnxactually joking this time...though I wouldn't be surprised21:52
* GAN8001 blows his top.21:52
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* GAN8001 is waiting for Quim to get out of whatever meeting he's in so I can jump down his throat again. ;)21:52
johnxand dance upon his liver?21:52
GAN8001Actually, johnx, joking you may be, but I believe it actually is a UI spec issue. <_<21:53
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ReKlipzwhat happened to phoenix?21:54
GAN8001It landed. :P21:55
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ReKlipzso, it's not "down"21:55
ReKlipzit's been landed for like 2 days21:55
GAN8001Yes it is.21:55
johnxwell it's not up21:55
ReKlipzthey've gotten pictures back from it...21:55
GAN8001Landing is frequently referred to as being "down". :P21:55
johnxin fact I'm pretty sure it's going to have trouble even making orbit, let alone escape velocity...21:55
GAN8001A pilot might say, "We're down"21:56
ReKlipzyeah, i guess, but it landed over 48 hours ago...21:56
johnxand hasn't floated away yet!21:56
GAN8001Yeah, Navi's just being trollish and I'm just making a joke. :P21:56
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ReKlipzi thought it broked21:56
NaviI'm totally not trolling21:56
GAN8001Don't lie21:56
* Navi lies21:57
NaviI lied about lying21:57
ReKlipzthe statement, "I'm a liar" is true no matter what.21:58
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johnxyay...for random packaging of maemo apps! woo!21:59
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johnxa script called "makedeb" instead of control, rules, changelog22:00
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qwerty12_N800Anyone know where the patch to run the N800's Cpu at 400 when dsp is enabled or running at 133?22:01
* Navi shrugs22:01
GAN8001johnx, you going to join pkg-maemo?22:02
GAN8001They seem a little dead.22:02
GAN8001qwerty12_N800, check fanoush's site?22:02
johnxGAN8001, I poked at them. They're working on tinymail so I decided to give python-hildon a try22:02
qwerty12_N800GAN800, Thanks, checking now22:02
ReKlipzso, if I remove hildon, I will still have the hardware drivers / api, right?22:03
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qwerty12_N800No, can't see the patch there. I think it's included in his kernel, will take a look22:04
johnxReKlipz, yes, but all your GUI programs will be broken22:04
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GAN8001Throw rocks at fanoush until he gives up his secrets, then.22:04
ReKlipzjohnx: but I'll still have the GTK, no?22:04
kimrhhhmm, so where are the folder which the Application Manager can see actually located in the fs hierachy?22:04
ReKlipzI just want to remove the whole "window manager/navigation" piece, and replace it with my own single app.22:05
kimrhhGAN8001: directories then :)22:05
johnxReKlipz, aaah, ok22:05
johnxthe window manager is matchbox22:05
GAN8001The question still isn't entirely meaningful, kimrhh. :P22:05
kimrhhDocuments, Audio Clips, Images etc22:05
johnxand the side panels are "hildon desktop"22:05
johnxhildon is also the name of the GUI lib22:05
GAN8001kimrhh, Application manager?22:05
kimrhhGAN8001: well, they are not in /home/user at least :)22:06
* GAN8001 is confused.22:06
kimrhhGAN8001: yees, you know, the one that comes with the OS2008 :)22:06
GAN8001Documents, Audio Clips, and Images have nothing to do with the Application manager.22:06
GAN8001You mean File manager?22:06
kimrhhGAN8001: it's possible to choose, "install from file"22:06
GAN8001If so, it's /home/user/MyDocs/.documents etc22:06
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johnxkimrhh, the folders app manager installs to? or where it looks for files?22:06
johnxwhere it looks for files: below /home/user/MyDocs22:07
kimrhhjohnx: looks, think the . prefix is the answer :)22:07
johnxand also on sd cards /media/mmc1 /media/mmc222:07
GAN8001Application manager was unrelated. :P22:07
kimrhhi just scp'ed the .deb og bluez-utils over, thought it was easier22:07
GAN8001kimrhh, just dpkg -i it over ssh22:08
johnxkimrhh, just mv it to MyDocs22:08
kimrhhjohnx: it is in MyDocs, that doesn't seem to be a dir visible to app manager22:08
kimrhhGAN8001: ah, much nicer22:08
lopzmm... gobject.GError: no element "multimpartdemux" any ideas ?22:08
johnxkimrhh, it is22:08
kimrhhjohnx: oh it is, just me who fails it :) but a little non-logic that it's called Nokia N810 :)22:09
johnxyeah, it's a little annoying that Nokia couldn't just let us poke around in /home/user but had to move things one level down instead22:10
kimrhhnot sure I get the whole "you cannot sudo" thing22:11
GAN8001It's "user friendly" johnx. :P22:11
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kimrhhbut i guess, switching to R&D mode actually is like saying "ok, I know that I can harm my device now" :)22:11
GAN8001Better off just installing easyroot22:11
johnxor just install easyroot from nitapps.com22:12
GAN8001R&D mode has some other consequences.22:12
* qwerty12_N800 uses tablet in rd mode because i keep forgetting to turn it off :p22:12
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kimrhhGAN8001: i'll remember that, only found the guides about replacing openssh with dropbear, and thought it was just easier to drop into R&D22:14
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GAN8001I'm really digging Benson's backpack server idea.22:16
johnxGAN8001, on ITT?22:17
GAN8001The BeagleBoard thread22:17
GAN8001Dump a beagle in a backpack22:17
johnxyeah...that's what I thought at first too22:17
GAN8001put a stack of batteries in there, GPS, WAP, WWAN, NAS22:17
johnxwith a big 9 cell laptop battery and a cellphone uplink22:17
johnxbluetooth for a2dp too22:18
GAN8001Some good antennas so you get decent range.22:18
qwerty12_N800erm, does a dev_dbg function mean more  dmesg output?22:18
johnxI was actually thinking of a gumstix for that kind of project22:18
GAN8001I doubt if I'd get much use out of something like that as it stands, but still.22:18
johnxbut beagleboard would work too22:18
GAN8001Be a fun project22:18
johnxand a beagleboard does svideo out too :D22:19
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johnxnice to take over to a friend's house and plug into the TV22:19
GAN8001I wonder if they've got the PowerVR or IVA2 working on that thing.22:19
* qwerty12_N800 likes the way maemo is running on the beagleboards :)22:20
johnxactually...if it's pandora compatible it might make a neat linux-based console :D22:20
GAN8001Fun fun fun22:20
GAN8001I like it as a invisible desktop, too.22:21
johnxvesa mount to the back of an LCD?22:21
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GAN8001Something like that22:22
johnxmaybe you could find someplace *inside* the LCD bezel to stick it22:22
johnxor in the base of the stand22:22
GAN8001I wonder if anybody sells a 5-8" LCD I could attach to it easily22:22
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johnxlook for carpc stuff22:22
GAN8001Crappy and lowres22:22
johnxnot necessarily22:23
GAN8001I'm thinking touch, too.22:23
GAN8001Build myself a wooden tablet22:23
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kulveafaik, beagle doesn't have SGX nor IVA in use, at least not yet22:24
GAN8001So I figured22:25
GAN8001The future holds hope, though22:25
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johnxthat's the same omap as the pandora though, right?22:26
GAN8001Think so22:26
GAN8001Effectively the same as the N900 is likely to have, too.22:26
* GAN8001 wonders how easily drivers/libraries can be shared.22:26
johnxand the pandora will *definitely* have a working powervr driver22:27
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summatusmentiswait, n900? I hope that's not coming soon...22:27
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johnxsummatusmentis, it's a rumor only22:28
GAN8001summatusmentis, earliest'll be late Q322:28
GAN8001But, like johnx says, there's absolutely nothing concrete yet22:28
johnxif I had to bet, I'd say Q4 2008 or Q1 200922:28
* GAN8001 really hopes it's this year22:28
GAN80012009 will put them way behind the curve. :\22:29
summatusmentisI just bought a n810! :-/22:29
summatusmentisI hate how fast tech turns over22:29
AnunakinI just bought a N810 too...22:30
GAN8001Get over it.22:30
GAN8001Technology moves22:30
GAN8001It doesn't invalidate the device you have in your hands right now22:30
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GAN8001Me, personally, I've had this tablet since January 2007 . . . I'm ready for an upgrade.22:31
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AnunakinJan 2007... I had a Zaurus SL 310022:32
kkrustyI bought an n800 a few weeks ago :(22:32
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kkrustycost me 149 pounds22:33
johnxthe n8x0 will have a *long* road ahead as a hackable linux handheld22:33
kkrustyis that cheap?22:33
kkrustyI think it is22:33
GAN8001Pounds of what? :P22:33
GAN8001Pig fat?22:33
johnxkkrusty, probably for the UK22:34
kkrustyBritish pounds22:34
johnxI think it was going for <$200 in the US a bit ago22:34
kkrustyhere they have VAT which is supposed to be about 17% of everything22:34
GAN8001Europe is so awesomely socialist22:36
GAN8001I don't know how anybody puts up with it.22:36
johnxGAN8001, actually a little projector with integrated power supply and beagleboard would be pretty awesome in my book :D22:36
johnxGAN8001, health care?22:36
GAN8001Stick it onto a baseball cap.22:36
GAN8001Shitty health care?22:36
GAN8001Yeah, sounds good. ;)22:37
GAN8001So the projector is projecting wherever you look.22:37
johnxblinding everyone you talk to!22:37
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GAN8001Those new micro projectors probably wouldn't cut it22:37
GAN8001You need to get an industrial sized one22:37
GAN8001Work those neck muscles.22:37
GAN8001You'll look like Barry Bonds in no time at all!22:38
johnxI was really enjoying not having inherited my family's hereditary back problems...but I guess it wasn't meant to be22:39
GAN8001I want some retinal projectors.22:39
johnxah, did you see the sony prototype things on gizmodo the other day?22:39
GAN8001Yeah, cool shit isn't it?22:39
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GAN8001Mount a projector in my glasses.22:40
johnxI've been following the whole wearable computer thing for 10+ years now22:40
johnxfinally starting to get close I think :D22:40
ReKlipzjohnx: best way to remove the hildon desktop?22:40
johnxReKlipz, easy: don't.22:40
GAN8001apt-get nuke hildon-desktop22:41
johnxjust don't run it22:41
ReKlipzthat'll work too, :P22:41
ReKlipzhow can i do that?22:41
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johnxfirst, are you booting from SD?22:41
ReKlipzi can be though22:41
AnunakinHey johnx, is any way to close Xomap... and dont crash ?22:41
johnxare you backed up?22:42
ReKlipznothing to back up22:42
ReKlipzso, yes22:42
johnxAnunakin, on debian? just kill it22:42
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johnxor /etc/init.d/x-server stop22:42
johnxand that script will kill it :)22:42
johnxReKlipz, you're very likely to need to reflash soon when you start messing around with boot order stuff22:43
johnxI would do this from SD so you can fall back to booting from flash to fix your mistakes22:43
ReKlipzi've already reflashed once, so no worries22:43
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AnunakinI have 3 partitions on my microSD, one with files(vfat), debian and other with maemo+kde22:44
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ReKlipzthe SD slot, an SDHC slot?22:45
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Anunakinbut... my problem ... now is run gnuplot under maxima22:45
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summatusmentiswait, kde can be installed on top of maemo? I thought it needed to be debian?22:46
ReKlipzkde is a desktop environment22:46
ReKlipzdebian is the linux distro22:46
ReKlipzhildon is a version of gnome22:46
ReKlipzsort of...22:46
GAN8001summatusmentis, look at Penguinbait's deb install22:46
GAN8001Extension, really, ReKlipz.22:47
summatusmentisyeah, but I assumed it needed the debian sub system to run on top of22:47
ReKlipzmaemo is debian...22:47
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summatusmentisGAN8001 I've seen it, I assumed it was for pure debian22:47
johnxmaemo is close enough to debian that penguinbait was able to get KDE working with quite a bit of effort22:47
ReKlipzcan i put straight debian on the n810?22:48
ReKlipzany disadvantages?22:48
johnxpower management doesn't work as well22:48
GAN8001Interface isn't well set up for the device22:48
johnxa little more CLI work to manage wlan22:48
GAN8001Hardware keys, etc.22:48
johnxGAN8001, hardware keys work fine in debian now22:49
GAN8001Not as smoothly as OS2008. :P22:49
johnxReKlipz, also, hildon-desktop is actually a nice system22:49
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GAN8001and text input is a royal pain without an N810.22:49
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ReKlipzjohnx, I don't need the window manager22:50
GAN8001ReKlipz, I really think you're wasting effort trying to dump all the system stuff22:50
GAN8001Just keep it and build your application.22:50
johnxReKlipz, what do you plan to replace it with?22:50
ReKlipzmy own app22:51
johnxjust run your app fullscreen22:51
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GAN8001Saves you the trouble of doing complicated setup with each new unit22:51
ReKlipzi guess so..22:51
GAN8001just leave it as-is and install the application22:51
ReKlipzi could just as easilly flash each one with the new binary though... and that'd be that22:51
johnxmatchbox is pretty lightweight22:52
GAN8001But your wasting time now trying to dump things that really don't need to be dumped.22:52
johnxReKlipz, I would look at how penguinbait handles it with KDE22:52
ReKlipz... ok, you've convinced me22:52
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johnxGAN8001, it will save some memory if his app is big enough to have issues running out of memory22:53
ReKlipzI just don't see the need for running matchbox and the like if it's never gonna be touched22:53
johnxit all comes down to effort/benefit ratio22:54
GAN8001Out of interest, how's the code going to be licensed, ReKlipz?22:54
johnxget your app running first, then see if you need to put in the effort to make matchbox not run22:54
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ReKlipzGAN8001, honestly, not sure22:55
ReKlipzwe've not really thought about it at all...22:55
johnxI've been in a similar situation making thin clients into linux web kiosks22:55
johnxoptimize last: you'll be much happier22:55
ReKlipzsounds like a plan22:55
ReKlipzok, how to get usbnet working...22:55
johnxinsmod g_ether.ko && ifup usb022:56
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ReKlipzoh, and is it just me, or is the usb cable a proprietary connector?22:56
johnxReKlipz, it's not22:56
ReKlipzit looks smaller...22:56
johnxalso, re: usbnet, read here:
GAN8001It's new22:56
LinuxCodeor that22:57
ReKlipzmicrosub, ok22:57
BlafaselIt's just a stupid f...king connector that noone uses.22:57
GAN8001But not proprietary.22:57
ReKlipzits no smaller than mini usb...22:57
GAN8001Blafasel, because it's new. . . .22:57
GAN8001Yes it is22:57
BlafaselSo that you can sell the cable for $$$$ instead of some cents..22:57
GAN8001It's significantly smaller than MiniUSB22:57
BlafaselYeah, but what for?22:57
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LinuxCodehalf the size22:57
BlafaselDon't tell me that they needed the mm on the device ;)22:57
LinuxCodeBlafasel, a standard usb wouldnt fit on a n81022:57
qwerty12_N800Nokia recently put out something in a repo to set usbnet via control panel applet.22:58
GAN8001Blafasel, MUCH smaller, MUCH more durable (significantly more plug/unplug cycles).22:58
ReKlipzit's half as thing, but 10x as brekable22:58
BlafaselMini (or whatever) would have fittet.22:58
GAN8001Several orders of magnitude more durable than Mini, actually, ReKlipz.22:58
ReKlipzthats good then22:58
BlafaselAnd is in use all over the place (cameras, gadgets)22:58
ReKlipzit looks much more brekable22:58
GAN8001Blafasel, there was a time nobody used USB22:59
GAN8001It takes more than 6 months for new standards to get moving in the market place.22:59
ReKlipzand it wasn't that long ago...22:59
GAN8001It's a BIG improvement over MiniUSB22:59
GAN8001Blafasel, cables will get cheaper when economies of scale kick in.23:00
BlafaselGAN8001: Your points are theoretical imo. You cite "smaller" which I'd counter with insignificant for this device and "more durable" which I'd counter with "See these old mini using devices of mine"23:01
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BlafaselWell.. I don't like the decision and just cannot see the point. Even their own mobile brand doesn't use it (Had an E51 lately).23:02
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johnxBlafasel, I think they were trying to save all the room they could, and as for more durable there is a spec somewhere that states the number of plug/un-plug cycles23:02
GAN8001OK, Blafasel, believe whatever you want to believe, I don't need to convince you. Just check your facts before you spew. :)23:02
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GAN8001Get back to me when you design a mobile device.23:03
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BlafaselGAN8001: Renewable energy is the future. We should have a solar-based N810. The price and output will catch on with the requirements. But it's def. "better" ;)23:03
glassminiusb is more common.. thats why i like having them on my devices over microusb23:03
glassfinding a microusb charger is a bitch for example23:04
Blafaseljohnx: Yeah, I don't doubt that the numbers are right.23:04
Blafaselglass: Thanks for jumping in.23:04
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glassthe new nokia smaller charger plug sucks bigtime because it's not durable23:04
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BlafaselThat's another point that I'd agree with. Wonder what the plugin cycles are for that tiny pin.23:05
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ReKlipzso, there is 2GB internal flash, and one miniSDHC slot on the outside of the n810?23:09
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GAN8001Plus the 256MB of NAND the rootfs is on.23:09
puffandstuffI would like to know the average "stratup time" of an application using maemo please23:10
ReKlipzpoop on the NAND flash, go with NOR next time...23:10
ReKlipzi assume 2GB internal is NAND as well?23:10
GAN8001It's a soldered on SD card, more or less.23:11
ReKlipzis that an SD card and is it accessable? (physically?)23:11
ReKlipzhmm, so it's not upgradable23:11
LinuxCodeGAN800, are you certain ?!?!23:11
johnxpuffandstuff, any app in particular?23:11
LinuxCodeI was sure it was NAND23:11
ReKlipzSD is nand...23:12
puffandstuffjohnx, i missexplained the purpose, sorry. I would like to know how much is the startup time from pushing power on until displaying the desktop23:12
GAN800130 seconds23:13
GAN8001But it's an always-on device23:13
LinuxCodeReKlipz, no its not23:13
GAN8001So the idea is to never turn it off.23:13
qwerty12_N800That c23:13
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ReKlipzLinuxCode: how do you figure?23:14
penguinbaitwith expr usually23:14
johnxLinuxCode, might want to correct wikipedia then...23:14
puffandstuffGAN8001, i'm planning to use maemo in automotive23:14
LinuxCodenand has 2000 writes23:14
GAN8001puffandstuff, it'll idle for about 12 days doing nothing.23:14
LinuxCodecant recall..actually I think it was more23:14
GAN8001No need to power cycle it.23:14
johnxLinuxCode, more like 10,000 to 100,000 I believe23:15
johnxthen wear leveling helps that quite a bit23:15
LinuxCodejohnx, yah23:15
GAN8001Though automotive temperatures are hell on batteries.23:15
LinuxCodestandard flash is considerably less23:15
puffandstuffGAN8001, thanks for the information, as i said we aim to port maemo on other cpu targets targeting automotive industry23:15
johnxLinuxCode, what is "standard flash"?23:15
ReKlipznor is faster than nand23:15
ReKlipzand more expensive23:16
GAN8001puffandstuff, then startup time is entirely irrelevant. ;)23:16
LinuxCodeok so "apparently" that samsung has a nand chip23:16
GAN8001As it's entirely dependent on the CPU.23:16
LinuxCodecant be arsed to check the chip specs23:16
GAN8001. . . and flash memory speed.23:16
puffandstuffGAN800, not really23:16
LinuxCodejohnx, I cant recall23:16
LinuxCodeit was 10.000 or so23:16
LinuxCodebefore you get degradation23:16
ReKlipzThe endurance of NAND flash is much greater than that of NOR flash (typically 1,000,000 cycles vs. 100,000 cycles). (wikipedia)23:16
johnxLinuxCode, I think you might be a little confused :)23:16
LinuxCodeits been some time before I saw the test specs23:17
ReKlipzgotta run, back in a few23:17
LinuxCodejohnx, possibly23:17
GAN8001puffandstuff, honestly, you'd be better off looking at Debian with Hildon/Matchbox or Ubuntu Mobile and Embedded23:17
puffandstuffGAN800, all the application that we're using actually boots in about 5-7 seconds23:17
GAN8001"Maemo" doesn't port very well to other hardware at the moment.23:17
puffandstuffGAN8001, thanks23:17
LinuxCodeIve got better things to do than argue on the internet anyway23:18
GAN8001What I'm saying, is the startup time of maemo on a 400MHz ARM will have zero resemblance to the startup time of maemo on a 1.3GHz Atom. ;)23:18
johnxno one's arguing but you LinuxCode :)23:18
penguinbaitdepends it metalayer-crawler is running23:18
puffandstuffGAN8001,  i agree23:18
* LinuxCode goes to do better things23:19
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qwerty12_N800sheet, i just read ke-recv is oss. now come on nokia, we need mce, dsme & bme...23:19
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johnxqwerty12_N800, dsme is pretty thin23:19
johnxthey'll never give you bme though23:19
qwerty12_N800I can dream! :p23:20
GAN8001Yeesh, it's like the hour-of-idiocy in here. <_<23:21
GAN8001mce would be nice.23:21
* qwerty12_N800 takes gold23:21
johnxall I want is little documentation on wifi powersaving through /sys and I'll be happy23:22
GAN8001It's the small wishes that kill you. ;)23:22
johnxI think Nokia might actually be able to do that though23:23
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johnxit's a public interface, and the code that controls it is in cx3110x23:23
GAN8001You'd think Nokia could add a little 12/24 hour switch in the settings, too23:23
* qwerty12_N800 really really wants docs on /dev/mtd1 ;)23:23
GAN8001But you know how it is. :P23:24
summatusmentispenguinbait's KDE isn't in the extra's repo, is it?23:24
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johnxsummatusmentis, nope, it's on
qwerty12_N800I was reading that wiki page on editing the locales, i'm sure it would work but I have no need for 24h.23:25
summatusmentisjohnx: yep, I'm looking at that page23:25
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ReKlipzthe tech specs for the n810 are confusing, is it telling me that i can use a microsd card directly, or that I can, but only with a minisd adapter (if thats the case, then why put it on there?)23:26
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johnxonly with a mini-sd adapter23:27
johnxso that people realize that adapters exist23:27
ReKlipzok, so in reality i need a minisd card23:27
ReKlipzor a micro, but will need an adapter23:27
johnxbut lots of micros come with mini and full adapters23:27
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* qwerty12_N800 just found repo with maemo boost libraries, w00t, time to start running a lot of dpkg's tommorow... 23:30
summatusmentisjohnx: and the deb that he provides to clone it, should close my entire system to SD ?23:31
summatusmentis(before installing kde)23:31
johnxI have no experience with that23:31
penguinbaitwhats up sum?23:31
summatusmentisyour .deb that you provide to clone my rootfs should clone everything to SD23:31
summatusmentisand then I can install KDE on top of that23:32
penguinbaitit will clone running flash to SD23:32
penguinbaityes everything23:32
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summatusmentisam I reading the KDE thread right? will it fail if I've already installed third party stuff?23:32
summatusmentisor anything beyond factory settings23:32
penguinbaitif you have 2GB card, and lots of software installed the KDE installer will fail23:33
summatusmentiswell, not lots, but some23:33
penguinbaitafter clone is complete you need like 1350MB free to install KDE23:33
penguinbaityou could clone it and remove software on the cloned partition if it wont fit, it will still all be available if you bot to flash23:34
summatusmentisoh, ok23:35
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qwerty12_N800Well, remember me asking for dsp  patch? I found it... .I'll add it into my kernel tommorow...23:42
GAN8001qwerty12_N800's frankenkernel23:45
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skiburIs Diablo any good?23:46
qwerty12_N800Browser's worse23:46
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* qwerty12_N800 is seriously tempted to grab Bundyo's opera for os200823:46
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Veggenqwerty: worse than current OS2008 browser?23:47
summatusmentisdoes the map app that comes factory installled store it's map data on the internal sd card?23:47
GAN8001Keep in mind, it's still very beta.23:47
GAN8001The browser isn't done being worked on.23:48
GAN8001Yes, summatusmentis.23:48
qwerty12_N800browserd idea sucks  though. that's still probably gonna be in final23:48
GAN8001skibur, Diablo is a big improvement over Chinook for what it is.23:48
qwerty12_N800Veggen, yes atm23:48
GAN8001qwerty12_N800, do you really think you're qualified to decide that. :P23:48
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Veggenhmm. I'll resist the temptation to do an unofficial upgrade, then.23:49
qwerty12_N800I haven't decided anything, it's what I think.23:49
GAN8001But, more seriously, I haven't actually seen an explanation of the new implementation, so where are you getting your info?23:49
fysahe looked?23:49
fysaI take qwerty12_N800's word.23:50
GAN8001There's nowhere TO look.23:50
GAN8001It's not documented publicly yet.23:50
skibursome dude claims that he/she is runing it23:50
GAN8001Lots of people are running it23:50
GAN8001I'm running it, qwerty12_N800 is running it23:51
GAN8001You gotta figure out the password to the repo yourself.23:51
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skiburDiablo explanation23:51
GAN8001What explanation? How to run it?23:51
skiburwell the improvements and add ons etc..23:52
summatusmentispenguinbait: I'm getting an "Installation file corrupted" for install-tools.deb23:52
qwerty12_N800check the bunch of screenies i made23:52
Blafaselqwerty12_N800: Any link to those pictures?23:52
qwerty12_N800They are in that massive diablo thread somewhere...23:53
GAN8001qwerty12_N800, seriously, where's your browserd implementation documentation?23:53
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skiburSSU <---- Nice!23:54
qwerty12_N800What documentation do I need? i haven't gone into technical stuff to say it sucks. i know it crashes more and uses more memory23:54
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GAN8001That doesn't mean the _idea_ sucks, though. . . .23:55
GAN8001That just means the current implementation is buggy. :\23:55
summatusmentisGAN8001: :-/ I had one of the boxwave screen protectors on my 3200, and I sucked hard at putting it on :)23:56
GAN8001I have a guide for application somewhere on itT, summatusmentis.23:56
* qwerty12_N800 is honoured to have a thread named after me :
GAN8001Extrapolating that the concept of browserd sucks from some memory consumption and crash data on a pre-release product doesn't make a lot of sense. Especially lacking a complete understanding of why it was implemented or what it does. ;)23:59
skibursounds great23:59
skiburneed to find where to start23:59

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