IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2008-05-15

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Navi	can't figure out how to get the modifier key to stick	00:00
johnx	hmm	00:00
Navi	I went through the readme and there wasn't any info	00:01
Navi	I can type in numbers from the numpad, but I have to hit the modifier each time	00:01
lardman	seems to be related to the app	00:02
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lardman	sometimes I can click fn twice and it sticks, other times I can press it then a number, then again sometimes I have to hold it down	00:02
Navi	Are you talking about matchbox-keyboard?	00:03
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johnx	lardman, ah, this is something a little different :)	00:03
zap	Hello! Anybody remembers where I can enable keyboard backlighting? For some reason I can't get backlight on anymore...	00:03
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lardman	johnx: Sorry, my fault for coming in half way through	00:04
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Navi	Lol	00:05
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johnx	ah, no worries lardman :)	00:05
RST38h	FamilyBASIC keyboard does not work.	00:06
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qwerty12_N800	johnx, I untarred debian as root but my mpd doesn't work. It had permission problems so I fixed them but sound playing doesn't work as it is missing a /dev/dsp* file somewhere. Any hints? (btw, i'm in maemo atm)	00:14
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johnx	hmm...when the card is mounted on your computer is it mounted with nodev,nosuid?	00:14
johnx	did tar report any errors?	00:14
qwerty12_N800	johnx, no idea about mount options, just plugged it in. no errors.	00:15
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Grackle	johnx, re: debian, what about base-config.. debootstrap didn't install a base-config.	00:16
gpd	hmm... installed syslog and when the BT GPS is lost I get this message:	00:16
gpd	Nokia-N800-50-2 btcond[1102]: Supervision timeout to 00:0B:0D:85:58:4F. Device out of rage?	00:17
johnx	ah, the other half is that you need to chroot on your tablet itself and do some hacking	00:17
gpd	I am almost out of RAGE!	00:17
Grackle	haha rage	00:17
qwerty12_N800	brb, rebooting	00:17
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johnx	Grackle, I largely followed the "Creating an EABI chroot..." here: http://wiki.debian.org/ArmEabiHowto	00:17
johnx	so basically plug the card into the tablet and : chroot /media/mmc1 /debootstrap/debootstrap --second-stage	00:18
Navi	heh	00:18
Grackle	yeah johnx, I've done that	00:18
Navi	johnx, doneish	00:19
Navi	There are probably symbols and letters that you want on it	00:19
johnx	Grackle, I think I just ran aptitude after that and let it fix whatever it saw fit	00:20
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johnx	Navi, that sounds great! would you send it to me?	00:20
Navi	sec	00:20
Navi	scrot doesn't want to work :/	00:20
Grackle	johnx: the problem right now is that it has not configured apt yet	00:21
johnx	Navi, xwd -root -out file.xwd	00:21
johnx	then convert it on another machine	00:21
Navi	meh	00:21
johnx	Grackle, that's odd	00:21
Grackle	yeah.	00:21
Navi	I got scrot to work :P	00:21
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Navi	http://www.xenf.net/n800stuff/	00:22
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* Grackle heads back downstairs		00:23
johnx	Navi, that is pretty fantastically awesome	00:24
Navi	Lol >_>	00:24
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Navi	as you can see, there is still plenty of space for more symbols	00:24
lardman	woo hoo, I have a blue galaxy displayed	00:24
lardman	should be red, but nearly there	00:25
Navi	it's pretty easy to do it too	00:25
Navi	I made tab double as esc with the mod	00:25
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Navi	don't know if that was good/bad	00:26
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johnx	ahaha...I forgot that I left my hostname set on Debian	00:27
johnx	I just noticed that in your screenshot	00:27
Grackle	haha yeah	00:27
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johnx	also, to any Debian users: set your mac address	00:28
johnx	otherwise it will not be fun when you find another debian/n800 user at the same AP as you :)	00:28
Grackle	>.>	00:28
Grackle	It does not use the device's mac address?	00:28
johnx	nope	00:29
Grackle	it has to be set? weird.	00:29
johnx	wlancond pulls it out of the "hidden" mtd partition and sets it by hand	00:29
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Grackle	"hidden" mtd partition?	00:29
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johnx	yeah...0xffff can read it	00:29
Navi	I don't expect to see any other N800s	00:29
KotCzarny	/dev/mtdblock2 afair	00:30
Grackle	oh hm	00:30
johnx	ah, neat	00:30
KotCzarny	johnx: then use 0xFFFF ?	00:30
KotCzarny	:)	00:30
johnx	right...or just set your own MAC address	00:31
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KotCzarny	like i remember it :)	00:31
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Navi	Or spoof it and pretend to be your next door neighbor's registered mac so you can download from torrents without getting caught	00:31
Navi	by the campus police	00:31
johnx	or leave it and hope that someone reads their logs every once in a while to see the joke :)	00:32
Navi	Lol	00:32
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johnx	00:02:ee:c0:ff:ee	00:32
Saviq	capital first letter, a sign that's someone's writing from his/her internet tablet ;)	00:32
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johnx	Navi, I might pair your keyboard layout down to fewer buttons that have just the letters and basic punctuation	00:33
Navi	hm?	00:34
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Navi	Oh, right	00:34
Navi	make it more like the hildon keyboard?	00:34
johnx	right, so the keys get bigger :)	00:34
Navi	that's fine with me	00:34
Navi	I like it this way	00:35
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johnx	I should also figure out how to fix my screen calibration O_o	00:35
lardman	cool, yv12->rgb565 (Y->blue) is working	00:35
johnx	lardman, cool	00:35
lcuk	the quick?	00:35
Navi	My slender fingers can already thumb this keyboard	00:35
KotCzarny	:)	00:35
lcuk	omg when i wanted to misspell i cock that up	00:35
Navi	lol	00:36
lcuk	lard, this will help xv immensely :)	00:36
Navi	bleh	00:37
Navi	hate it when I run out of ram	00:37
lardman	lcuk: don't get too excited, still need to get yv12->yuv420 working	00:37
johnx	Navi, how much swap?	00:37
Navi	128	00:38
johnx	O_o	00:38
Navi	I used the same swap file I do with maemo out of sheer laziness	00:38
johnx	memory leak in the browser?	00:38
lcuk	technically simpler or a sideways shift? one is bit manipulations the other is bytes	00:38
Navi	Maybe	00:38
Navi	I closed it and I got a lot of ram back	00:38
lardman	lcuk: yuv420 is a packed format, and the endianness is wierd	00:39
lardman	lcuk: so some experimentation	00:40
lcuk	ive seen 420	00:40
* lcuk shudders		00:40
zap	damnit, the "powerlaunch" application disables keyboard backlighting	00:41
lcuk	does it?	00:41
lcuk	:D w00t	00:41
* lardman has a green Jupiter now		00:41
zap	lardman: are you trying to speed up video playing?	00:42
Navi	ouch	00:42
Navi	openbox starts up dog slow	00:43
johnx	try blackbox	00:43
lardman	zap: That is the end goal	00:43
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johnx	the original box :)	00:43
Navi	:P	00:43
Navi	blackbox is old and unmaintained	00:43
zap	cool. Are you going to write DSP decoders for mpeg4/whatever?	00:43
Navi	flux is the new black	00:43
johnx	and fast	00:43
johnx	and small	00:43
johnx	I like window maker anyways	00:43
Navi	oh, it wasn't starting up slow	00:44
zap	lardman: if I'm not wrong, mplayer already uses the hw YUV scaler/converter	00:44
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lardman	zap: probably not; the idea is to write a converter for yv12->yuv420	00:44
johnx	but the amount of "double-click" to launch in wm is unfortunate	00:44
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Navi	I hate openbox, it deceives me with it's blackness	00:44
lardman	zap: the idea was to take that conversion/scaling overhead off of mplayer	00:44
lcuk	scaling?	00:44
Navi	weird	00:44
Navi	I can't see the cursor	00:44
zap	lardman: [omapfb] ARM JIT scaler (quality=2): 704x528 YV12 => 640x480 YUV420	00:44
lcuk	770 only?	00:44
Navi	ZOMG ITS MAEMO AGAIN	00:44
zap	isn't this about what you are doing?	00:44
lardman	lcuk: The original idea was for it to be for the 770	00:45
lardman	zap: yes	00:45
lardman	zap: but this is on the DSP	00:45
lcuk	true, but will have use here as well	00:45
johnx	Navi, eh?	00:45
lcuk	the conversion especially	00:45
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Navi	johnx, I have no idea what happened :P	00:46
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johnx	aaah...I have a thought	00:46
zap	lardman: you're doing it for 770?	00:46
johnx	xomap might set the cursor transparent by default	00:46
pupnik	it would be a huge coup if you could speed up mplayer	00:46
Navi	>_>	00:46
johnx	xfce probably asserted its "cursor theme"	00:46
Navi	eh	00:46
Navi	Oh yeah	00:46
johnx	type xsetroot and see if you get a nice chunky x	00:46
Navi	nah	00:46
Navi	I can't open a term	00:46
johnx	:/	00:46
lardman	zap: atm am testing on n800, but will be for 770 in the end	00:47
Navi	It keeps disappearing	00:47
zap	lardman: sorry if I'm asking too much, but I'm interested in DSP stuff too :)	00:47
lardman	pupnik: it was ssvb's suggestion	00:47
lardman	zap: np, ask away. I'm always happy when people are interested :)	00:47
lcuk	lardman, i see very practical benefits from this code :) you will see my xv rendering next week	00:48
zap	lardman: so you're going to do YV12 -> YUV420 conversion in DSP rather than in videocard? What for?	00:48
lcuk	zap, not video card	00:48
lardman	lcuk: cool	00:48
pupnik	what video card ? ;)	00:48
zap	omap	00:48
zap	the built-in SOC	00:48
lardman	zap: The plan is that mplayer decodes to a shared memory region, then the DSP can handle the scaling and conversion and output	00:48
lcuk	the LCD supports yuv420, but a more common format yv12 is easier to handle (its contigious planes)	00:48
lardman	lcuk: lcd controller memory bandwidth problem...	00:49
lcuk	so a converter will take a job away from the CPU and give back some cycles	00:49
zap	aha	00:49
lardman	lcuk: yes	00:49
lcuk	the conversion is already done within xv	00:49
zap	well even now the xv scaling is awesome (compared to other 400MHz PDAs I have seen)	00:49
lardman	lcuk: are you working on XvMC? That might be interesting to get the DSP involved with	00:49
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lcuk	replace that CPU conversion with lardmans code and bammo :) instant speedup hopefully	00:50
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Navi	johnx, also, I can't find how to set up plaintext for my wifi on teh debz :P	00:50
lcuk	xv does NO scaling	00:50
zap	really?	00:50
Navi	I've been using iwconfig wlan0 essid foo	00:50
KotCzarny	lcuk: if there could be a way to include it in xserver..mmmm	00:50
lardman	lcuk: depends on whether the DSP can handle the framebuffer update fast enough; I'm not sure really, I saw some errors when trying to run fast	00:50
lcuk	the LCD takes a bitmap of arbitary size and scales to arbitary boundary - it is essentially a tv circuit	00:50
johnx	Navi, it shouldn't be hard	00:50
KotCzarny	then it could report format as supported	00:50
Navi	orly	00:50
zap	lcuk: so it does scaling	00:50
lcuk	yes	00:50
zap	via xv?	00:51
lardman	the lcd controller does the scaling though	00:51
Navi	johnx, I couldn't find anything about it. I know how to use wpa-psk with it :P	00:51
Navi	that's all that turned up	00:51
johnx	Navi, /usr/share/doc/wireless-tools/README.Debian	00:51
lcuk	zap, if i ask xv for a 400*240 bitmap, that is sent as original data over the pipe unscaled, but will display at fullscreen	00:51
Navi	I skimmed that	00:51
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zap	lcuk: true, so that's basically an upscale, no matter how it is done	00:52
Navi	johnx, is it startxfce or startxfce4?	00:52
Navi	johnx, or none of the above?	00:52
johnx	xfce4-session I believe	00:52
Navi	bleh	00:52
johnx	cat ~/.xsession	00:52
Navi	nah	00:52
Navi	I modified it	00:52
lcuk	lardman, the scaler just needs to work at == to the CPU for that one job (the conversion) the cpu could then snooze and we wouldnt care	00:52
johnx	startxfce4 tries to start an x server too	00:52
NullM0dem	yeah its confusing	00:52
lcuk	convertor^	00:52
Navi	I'm used to the slack way of doing things	00:52
NullM0dem	xcfce4-session	00:53
NullM0dem	me too	00:53
NullM0dem	xfce4-session	00:53
zap	In fact, I benchmarked mplayer today on a large video (720x576) and it looks like the decoder is the narrow place, not YUV conversion/scaling	00:53
johnx	Navi, well as far as window managers go this is the hacked-up way of doing things	00:53
lardman	unfortunately, although I can output frames at ~1fps, if I change the delay to 10fps, the DSP crashes	00:53
zap	something like 90% for MPEG4 decoder	00:53
Navi	johnx, I know :P	00:53
lcuk	lardman, no not xvmc, just the xv extensions of x, its the same thing mplayer uses	00:53
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lardman	lcuk: ok, I just thought xvmc looked interesting	00:54
Navi	le sigh	00:54
Navi	Have to go through fsck again	00:54
lcuk	i just googled it and it does	00:54
n800n	can i record video with the n800 camera?	00:54
johnx	n800n, yes, look up "videocamera"	00:54
zap	yep, but a few fps	00:54
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n800n	look up on maemo.com? or garage?	00:55
KotCzarny	16fps at 352@288	00:55
lcuk	lardman, glad i made you chuckle last night - it was pretty good timing of me	00:55
zap	try google :)	00:55
n800n	well still something	00:55
n800n	classic UFO video fps	00:55
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NullM0dem	not bad, thats like those old charley chaplin flicks	00:55
n800n	:P	00:55
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lardman	lcuk: I was chuckling at X-Fade_'s comment about not moderating, this time...	00:55
Navi	crraaapppp	00:56
lcuk	damn, cos i almost fell off chair when it started	00:56
johnx	n800n, use google: maemo videocamera	00:56
johnx	Navi, everything crashes in X?	00:56
n800n	got it ty	00:56
Navi	johnx, not sure	00:56
johnx	I had that problem too	00:57
Navi	It's still at the black screen	00:57
GeneralAntilles	No S60 guys next time around. :\	00:57
Navi	there it goes	00:57
johnx	I restarted the x server and all was well	00:57
Navi	GeneralAntilles, lol	00:57
johnx	ah, nm then :)	00:57
Navi	bleh, swapon time	00:57
* lardman wonders what's going on with the DSP endianness		00:57
GeneralAntilles	It's armer	00:58
GeneralAntilles	endian random	00:58
lardman	yeah	00:58
lardman	which was is RGB arranged? Is R at the big or little end?	00:58
GeneralAntilles	or armwtfiflb	00:58
GeneralAntilles	Whatever the Fuck I Feel Like Bitch	00:59
Grackle	The kernel is flashed to the tablet, correct? Kernel can't be stored on a disk?	00:59
lardman	GeneralAntilles: I fear you may be right	00:59
johnx	Grackle, kernel lives in a mtd partition	00:59
Grackle	johnx: Ah. So your debian tarball just uses the installed kernel?	01:00
johnx	yup	01:00
Navi	eeewww	01:00
Grackle	How did you get the console working?	01:00
johnx	Grackle, fanoush provided a program+modules to switch the console framebuffer on	01:00
johnx	look in /etc/init.d/tablet-utils	01:01
Grackle	Oh, I recall you talking about tablet-utils	01:01
Grackle	Is there a web page associated with that?	01:01
johnx	not really	01:01
lcuk	lardman, trial and error, theres only a few combinations :P	01:01
lardman	lcuk: yep, am starting that now :)	01:02
johnx	but there is some documentation under /usr/share/doc/tablet-utils	01:02
Grackle	oh, good	01:02
Grackle	I'll take a look.	01:02
johnx	though the version I "ship" is modified	01:02
johnx	I'm trying to keep most of the tablet-centric hackiness to that script	01:02
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lardman	oo, strange, I've managed to keep the entire desktop scaled after killing my dsp code	01:05
livinroom	YAYYY	01:05
livinroom	i got stable iphone tethering working	01:06
lcuk	sounds familiar, since you are talking directly to the framebuffer, its possible to leave it in wrong state	01:06
livinroom	it required alot of equipment but it's doable	01:06
livinroom	go me	01:06
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livinroom	i'm so awesome	01:06
livinroom	go me	01:06
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n800n	pretty crappy video :/	01:06
lcuk	ive got a small function which leaves the framebuffer in a magnifieresq view	01:06
lcuk	its quite cool	01:06
Blafasel	Uhm. iphone, huh? Naaaah..	01:06
lardman	lcuk: I've reverted to not using any of the scaling functions now	01:07
n800n	can i make the internet video call app not pop up when i open the camera?	01:07
livinroom	yes, go to the settings of the app	01:07
livinroom	it will give you a checkbox on auto-launch	01:07
n800n	ty	01:07
n800n	sweet	01:07
lcuk	lard, its best when you crash your device and hold power but your program continues to write to the screen whilst "charging" is showing ;)	01:08
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KotCzarny	good idea for a virus/scare app	01:09
KotCzarny	:)	01:09
lardman	lcuk: :) that would look very odd	01:09
pupnik	i need 60 fps for my subliminal message programming	01:10
livinroom	roffles	01:10
livinroom	WOOOT wooot wooooooooooooot	01:10
lcuk	pupnik at lower resolutions you can have over 100	01:10
livinroom	i am SO happy right now	01:10
pupnik	nice lcuk. did you figure out how?	01:11
livinroom	i've exceeded design specification limits for happiness.	01:11
pupnik	good job livinroom	01:12
livinroom	i'm Dangerously happy	01:12
lcuk	cos my program shows framecounter in some screens	01:12
lcuk	and at 400*240 it goes at 100fps	01:12
pupnik	and how do you know the lcd controller is refreshing at that rate?	01:12
pupnik	and not discarding updates?	01:12
lcuk	at 800*240 it goes at about 52fps	01:12
lcuk	cos you can see - ill show you	01:13
lcuk	next week	01:13
pupnik	ok awesome - respect	01:13
pupnik	just askin	01:13
* GeneralAntilles rants at lcuk about release early, release often again. :P ;)		01:13
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lcuk	release what though? ive just been learning	01:14
lcuk	there isnt a package here yet	01:14
lcuk	by the way, the default editor on 810, how do i bring it up from console?	01:16
lcuk	ive got files i want to edit which are outside the boundary that file manager can see	01:16
NullM0dem	you mena whats the executable name?	01:17
lcuk	yer	01:17
NullM0dem	it would have to accept filenames as a CLI option as well	01:17
lcuk	well if i knew the name i could test it, any ideas?	01:17
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NullM0dem	its called osso_notes	01:18
NullM0dem	not sure of the pathname	01:18
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KotCzarny	lcuk: ln -s dir you want to /home/user/MyDocs/	01:18
lcuk	whats ln?	01:19
KotCzarny	(sym)link util	01:19
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lcuk	ahhh coool	01:19
NullM0dem	ah that works	01:19
KotCzarny	you will love symlinks	01:19
NullM0dem	theres vim too from terminal	01:19
NullM0dem	or vi rather	01:19
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lcuk	so ln -s /usr/bin/liq/ /hone/user/MyDocs/_liq_bin	01:19
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lcuk	with a m	01:20
KotCzarny	try	01:20
KotCzarny	could work	01:20
KotCzarny	assuming dirs are right	01:20
lcuk	well ive heard bad things about recursive links and cpu consumption	01:20
lardman	hmm, making progress, I have a nearly complete Jupiter (my video) with only a few green blocks around the place	01:20
KotCzarny	as long you don't symlink from _liq_bin you don't have tto worry	01:20
lcuk	cool	01:21
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johnx	lardman, that is really freakin' cool :D	01:21
KotCzarny	lardman: btw. how one accesses your code? via gst or directly?	01:22
lcuk	lard :) i know the feeling, i have evolved this whole text rendering and seen fonts come out of the dark from grey rectangles to random stripes and through to proper glyphs.	01:22
lardman	via a command line binary atm, but something like this could be build into a gst sink	01:22
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lardman	lcuk: just frustrating seeing a nearly complete picture with some random splodges on it! :)	01:23
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lcuk	NullM0dem, osso_notes is right, but doesnt accept params, im trying the symlink thing	01:23
* lcuk is often caught by random off by one bugs		01:23
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lcuk	does _liq_bin have to exist already as a normal folder? or will it appear as one	01:24
KotCzarny	nope	01:25
KotCzarny	it will appear	01:25
KotCzarny	as one	01:25
KotCzarny	think of it as windows shortcuts	01:25
KotCzarny	but better	01:25
lcuk	wickedly brutal, pygtkeditor opens with command line :)	01:25
lcuk	and its highlighting correctly	01:26
johnx	a symlink (symbolic link aka soft link) is what a Windows shortcut would be if they did it right	01:26
KotCzarny	because every app can use symlinks	01:26
johnx	KotCzarny, beat me to it :P	01:26
KotCzarny	johnx: don't worry	01:26
KotCzarny	:)	01:26
lcuk	damn, terminal is single instance on device	01:27
KotCzarny	lcuk: get aterm	01:27
KotCzarny	:)	01:27
NullM0dem	aterm no way	01:28
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KotCzarny	and kciconsbox	01:28
KotCzarny	;)	01:28
johnx	or screen	01:28
Blafasel	johnx: Well, that's an evil comparison. What we're talking about here (linking directories) is possible with NTFS for quite some time	01:28
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Blafasel	symlinks to files though - suck. Big time.	01:29
johnx	on unix you mean?	01:29
Blafasel	(in Windows. As .lnk files)	01:29
KotCzarny	blafasel: ext2 is a lot older	01:29
KotCzarny	and they did it right from the start	01:29
KotCzarny	windowish links are braindamaged	01:29
johnx	KotCzarny, ln -s is older than ext2 I think :)	01:29
KotCzarny	johnx: probably :)	01:30
Blafasel	johnx: Hm? C:\Somedir can link (think symlink) to either <anydevice> or C:\Some\Other\Dir	01:30
KotCzarny	blafasel: ever tried to cd into it?	01:30
KotCzarny	:)	01:30
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Blafasel	KotCzarny: That's irrelevant ;) I just wanted to point out that links between folders are not to be compared with .lnk/shortcuts.	01:31
lcuk	wow :) thx, ive added 2	01:31
johnx	Blafasel, I understand, I was asking what you meant by "symlinks to files suck"	01:31
KotCzarny	no it's not	01:31
KotCzarny	:)	01:31
Blafasel	KotCzarny: Yep, works for me	01:31
KotCzarny	but it's puny	01:31
Blafasel	johnx: On Windows only - since .lnk obviously is no replacement	01:31
lardman	http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/dsp/PICT0050.JPG is what I see	01:31
Blafasel	KotCzarny: Naa.. It's great for me here, linking C:\Programme (german) to C:\Program Files - for all that broken setups	01:31
lcuk	permissions	01:32
johnx	lardman, you see permission denied?	01:32
Blafasel	You don't have permission to access /enpsgp/nokia770/dsp/PICT0050.JPG on this server.	01:32
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lcuk	lol @ nokia porn	01:32
lardman	nah, I can see it, hang on let me do some tweaking	01:32
Saviq	damn booting from the sd card makes accessing it through usb cable impossible :/ or am I missing something?	01:32
lcuk	plugged in both ends?	01:33
livinroom	lol	01:33
Blafasel	;-)	01:33
lardman	try that now	01:33
Saviq	well yes, the devices show up	01:33
Blafasel	lardman: Still	01:33
lardman	hmm, just broken it for me now :)	01:33
KotCzarny	saviq: yup, you can't use the same card in 2 places	01:33
KotCzarny	just use sshfs	01:33
lcuk	mark as identified: you reproduced the bug	01:34
lardman	and now	01:34
lcuk	fixed	01:34
Blafasel	Works	01:34
lardman	cool	01:34
Blafasel	Interesting - both the stuff in general and the artifacts ;)	01:34
KotCzarny	interesting	01:34
KotCzarny	looks like b0rkage in uv plane	01:35
KotCzarny	:>	01:35
lcuk	lardman - did your jpeg/mpeg decode run out of buffer memory?	01:35
lcuk	that looks more like a data clipping problem rather than actual normal rendering issue	01:35
KotCzarny	and at the end of y	01:35
KotCzarny	:)	01:35
lardman	should look like this http://hubblesource.stsci.edu/sources/video/clips/details/images/comet_jupiter_1.mpg	01:35
Saviq	KotCzarny: yeah that's what I'm using atm, but I wanted it to integrate nicely with my music player :/	01:35
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Blafasel	So - who's attending LinuxTag here?	01:35
lardman	lcuk: The decode was fine as I can view the Y plane as RGB565 with no artifacts	01:36
lardman	Blafasel: I am	01:36
Navi	mmm	01:36
lcuk	same here	01:36
Saviq	I wonder if the fat partition is accessible... I could live with keeping my media on the vfat partition	01:36
Navi	johnx, >_>	01:37
Blafasel	I never attended one of the oss conferences, but since it's around the corner and I might meet some new faces.. Still thinking about it.	01:37
Navi	I can only see two items in synaptic :/	01:37
lcuk	those look more like the tiles the codec used to represent a certain color	01:37
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johnx	Navi, hmm	01:37
Navi	won't let me resize it	01:37
Navi	ohwells	01:38
lcuk	if your algo is clipping incorrectly (off by one bit) what is meant to be 0 could be 128	01:38
lardman	lcuk: shouldn't be any clipping, just byte reordering	01:38
Navi	johnx, how do change the key that launches matchbox keyboard	01:38
lardman	lcuk: Though I should check that there are no artifacts in the U and V planes before I go off on a wild goose chase	01:39
johnx	Navi, err...good questions	01:39
Navi	:P	01:39
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Navi	hmm	01:40
KotCzarny	lardman: i think b0rkage starts at the end of Y plane	01:40
Navi	I think I'll turn on the xfce compositor	01:41
lardman	KotCzarny: miscount?	01:41
KotCzarny	hmm	01:41
GeneralAntilles	lol, Navi.	01:41
Navi	and set the transparency to matchbox keyboard to 50 :D	01:41
Navi	GeneralAntilles, I already did it before :P	01:41
lardman	strange that a lot of the image is intact	01:41
KotCzarny	maybe you try putting uv at the end of y	01:41
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KotCzarny	and getting uv misaligned because of that	01:41
Navi	GeneralAntilles, turned on transparencies + shadows	01:41
lardman	KotCzarny: UV are at the end of Y, but still strange that most of the image is intact	01:42
KotCzarny	put a 10px wide line at the beginning of Y to see if you start correctly	01:42
lardman	KotCzarny: I can output the Y plane after converting it to a single RGB colour then using RGB565 and it doesn't move about	01:42
lardman	so I think it's correctly aligned	01:43
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KotCzarny	explain that mangled 2 lines at the bottom of Y then	01:44
KotCzarny	:)	01:44
lardman	yeah	01:44
KotCzarny	another thought	01:45
KotCzarny	y is 2x wide than uv	01:45
lardman	yep?	01:45
lardman	yes	01:45
KotCzarny	ie. should be	01:45
lardman	yes, or rather U and V should be 1/2 as wide and tall as Y	01:46
lardman	not sure about the mangled 2 pixel high line, when output as RGB565 it's all black at the bottom	01:47
KotCzarny	just make an experiment and try to put white pixel at 0x0	01:47
n800n_	don't do it	01:48
n800n_	screen will blow up	01:48
lardman	not sure just how easy that will be to do	01:48
lardman	you mean write the white pixel to the YUV data and see what happens to it?	01:48
lardman	after it's converted	01:48
KotCzarny	lardman: gimp and prepare an jpg	01:49
KotCzarny	:)	01:49
KotCzarny	or modify decoded data	01:49
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Navi	johnx, no transset in the repos :(	01:50
lardman	KotCzarny: not right now, bed time; but what would you expect to see? I'll have a go tomorrow	01:50
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Navi	Oh yeah, you set your repos to the japanese repos by default and I've been too lazy to change them :D	01:50
KotCzarny	lardman, simple pixel is easier to analyze than random image	01:50
KotCzarny	:)	01:50
lardman	KotCzarny: yep; I thought I might generate some YUV data with fixed values for each plane, then send that in and see what I get out	01:51
lardman	I can save a copy of the framebuffer and pass it back to the ARM so I can hexedit it	01:51
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KotCzarny	:)	01:53
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lardman	bed time, will report back progress tomorrow	01:56
lardman	cheers for the help chaps	01:56
KotCzarny	night :)	01:56
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Blafasel	livinroom: http://explosm.net/comics/345/ wins so far ;)	01:57
Blafasel	Thanks again for the suggestion	01:57
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dieman	gar	02:11
dieman	left my n810 case on the bus	02:11
dieman	the cheap slipcase	02:11
dieman	any tips on finding a replacement	02:11
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lcuk	dieman :'( i feel your loss, my missus had hold of my 810 for 1 day and she lost it	02:12
KotCzarny	just make one yourself	02:12
KotCzarny	:)	02:12
Navi	johnx, Terminal > roxterm :P	02:13
dieman	heh	02:14
dieman	lcuk: any luck finding anything good?	02:14
jdiaz	I lost the two stylus in less than one month	02:14
Navi	dieman, HAHAHA YOU'RE FUNNY	02:14
dieman	i think i might just stop by target and hope theres something close to fitting.	02:14
dieman	heh, that bad	02:14
Navi	YOU SAY LUCK AND LCUK IS LUCK MISSPELED	02:15
dieman	wish i could just go to nokia and you know, buy a case	02:15
johnx	Navi, Terminal?	02:15
Navi	OLOLoloLOLoLOolOL	02:15
Navi	johnx, yeah, the terminal that xfce4 comes with	02:15
jdiaz	(what is the plural of stylus?)	02:15
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KotCzarny	styluses	02:15
KotCzarny	or stylee	02:16
KotCzarny	;)	02:16
dieman	anyhow, pfeh	02:16
jdiaz	styli?	02:16
lcuk	lcuk is not misspelt, you just dont know what it is for :)	02:16
dieman	guess i'll just go to the store and find something	02:16
Grackle	styli or styluses	02:16
lcuk	old pda case for now	02:16
Navi	lcuk, :P	02:16
* Grackle would go with styli		02:16
KotCzarny	you say penises, not peni	02:16
KotCzarny	;)	02:16
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* jdiaz remembers his surprise when learned that data was the plural form of datum		02:17
Grackle	Maybe /you/ do, pfft.	02:17
Blafasel	jdiaz: status is the plural of status (well, maybe you'd have written it statuus)	02:18
* Grackle inflicts horribly catchy and annoying music upon #maemo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG_kz6Sp500		02:18
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lcuk	right, i think the time has come to powerdown	02:19
lcuk	i will be back in about a week	02:19
KotCzarny	i think earlier	02:19
KotCzarny	;)	02:19
jdiaz	hibernating?	02:19
lcuk	not at all	02:19
lcuk	i have 0 internet and am glad	02:20
KotCzarny	you will get inetrnet	02:20
lcuk	this is a holiday not just warm irc	02:20
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KotCzarny	:)	02:20
jdiaz	but you'll carry your tablet	02:20
lcuk	of course, nothing better than lying by the pool coding :)	02:20
KotCzarny	:)	02:21
KotCzarny	hah.	02:21
jdiaz	talking about coding in the pool... I bought today one of these flexible keyboards	02:21
lcuk	wicked, ive got an apple bt	02:22
jdiaz	the touch is dreadful, but, hey, my first computer was a 48k spectrum!	02:22
Navi	someone should port stripclub to the NITs	02:22
lcuk	why havent they brought out the lilo keyboard	02:22
MajMin7	hey lcuk	02:23
lcuk	hi maj	02:23
MajMin7	i got it to work	02:23
MajMin7	its total crap though	02:23
lcuk	well now my life is complete	02:23
MajMin7	lol	02:23
lcuk	did you show your students	02:23
MajMin7	no	02:23
lcuk	or wasnt it worth it	02:23
MajMin7	im not done	02:23
MajMin7	i still have to code the project	02:23
MajMin7	i thought you might want to know the story though	02:24
lcuk	it will wait for another week	02:24
MajMin7	there's this application called /usr/lbexec/navicore-gpsd-helper	02:24
Navi	http://sourceforge.net/projects/stripclub/	02:24
lcuk	gnite all	02:24
KotCzarny	nite nite	02:24
lcuk	kot you have 2 mins to grab code	02:24
lcuk	offsite backup :)	02:24
jdiaz	see you	02:24
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jdiaz	btw, is it affected chinook by the debian openssl vulnerability?	02:26
Navi	oh yeah, that's total lol	02:27
johnx	Navi, apt-cache search stripclub	02:27
Navi	Oh, I know it's there	02:27
Navi	I saw it too	02:27
jdiaz	navi, why?	02:27
johnx	ah, you mean hildonize it?	02:27
Navi	I just wanted to see people make dirty jokes before saying that it's just a comic viewer	02:27
Navi	but it didn't work out :P	02:28
jdiaz	no one would comment without first checking the link :-)	02:28
Navi	wonder if qcomicviewer is nice	02:29
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GeneralAntilles	Navi fails at trolling.	02:30
Navi	That wasn't trolling	02:30
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jdiaz	I tried comix	02:30
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GeneralAntilles	Exactly, Navi. :P	02:30
jdiaz	it crashed most of the time	02:30
Navi	comix is fine with some modification	02:30
Navi	really?	02:30
Navi	never crashed for me	02:30
jdiaz	you probably have swapping enabled	02:30
Navi	yeah	02:31
Navi	it ate up ram	02:31
GeneralAntilles	Everybody should have swap on.	02:31
jdiaz	but does not check for null mallocs :-)	02:31
derf	You can't check for null mallocs.	02:31
jdiaz	why not?	02:32
derf	Linux over-commits pages.	02:32
derf	It hands you back a nice valid address that doesn't actually map to anything.	02:32
jdiaz	oh	02:32
derf	And then tries to go map it the first time you use it.	02:32
jdiaz	so, if you run out of ram, you can't detect it?	02:32
derf	You could install a signal handler to catch the segfault.	02:33
derf	But good luck recovering from it.	02:33
johnx	GeneralAntilles, it doesn't always play nice with everyone's card...	02:33
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jdiaz	hmm.. anyway, comix did not segfault. It caused reboot instead	02:33
Navi	lol	02:33
jdiaz	it also happened to evince, trying to read PDF comics	02:33
derf	Hooray watchdog timer.	02:33
GeneralAntilles	People shouldn't buy shitty cards. :P	02:34
johnx	GeneralAntilles, :P	02:34
Navi	johnx, :P	02:34
johnx	GeneralAntilles, I don't think the SD driver on the tablet is still 100% bullet proof yet	02:34
GeneralAntilles	Ehehe, I don't believe so either.	02:35
* GeneralAntilles puts a bullet through johnx's N800.		02:35
GeneralAntilles	Nope, not bullet proof.	02:35
johnx	hi-la-ri-ous	02:35
Grackle	:O	02:35
Navi	awesome	02:35
Navi	qcomicbook rocks	02:35
Navi	it just needs to stop being ugly	02:35
* Navi looks for a good qt theme		02:35
johnx	heh	02:35
Navi	A lot better than that python monster	02:36
Grackle	Ugly? What are you talking about, it's Qt as hell.	02:36
Navi	HAHAHA UR SO FUNNY	02:36
Navi	Damned puns	02:36
johnx	cranky much?	02:37
Navi	Not really	02:37
Navi	I just like acting like that whenever someone uses a pun :D	02:37
johnx	aah	02:37
GeneralAntilles	Navi's so funny. . . .	02:37
Navi	i kno rite?	02:37
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Grackle	wao that killed the chat	03:06
johnx	Yeah, I blame Navi :D	03:07
GeneralAntilles	There's something everybody can get behind!	03:07
Navi	I hate Navi	03:07
Navi	Navi always ruins everything	03:07
GeneralAntilles	Self-hating fairy.	03:07
KotCzarny	chat is a lie	03:10
Grackle	I'm surprised that there's no netbsd port for the n800.	03:11
Navi	:	03:12
Navi	:/	03:12
Navi	N800 ran out of power	03:12
johnx	Navi, O_o	03:12
KotCzarny	grackle: power management is closed source	03:12
KotCzarny	so not much point	03:12
Grackle	Ah, that's a good reason.	03:13
Navi	let's see how long that took	03:13
KotCzarny	also, if you have armel port of netbsd you can try running it	03:13
elb	that would never stop netbsd	03:13
Grackle	I guess the fact that the software it comes with is pretty damn good to begin with also negates the need for a netbsd port.	03:13
johnx	yeah there's a lot of stuff that needs to be rewritten from scratch to make netbsd work	03:13
elb	most of their "supported" platforms just means it can initialize the kernel	03:13
elb	maybe spit a few bytes out tty0 on a serial port	03:13
Grackle	I wouldn	03:13
Grackle	I wouldn't say 'most of'	03:14
elb	yeah, most of	03:14
Navi	johnx, took about 2 hours with wifi on with usage :/	03:14
elb	look at the list some time ;-)	03:14
johnx	hey, that's not too bad	03:14
Grackle	I have,	03:14
elb	it's super annoying to have something you want to put netbsd on, only to find out it doesn't really work there	03:14
elb	:-P	03:14
KotCzarny	who uses netbsd anyway?	03:15
KotCzarny	:)	03:15
elb	I think that is literally their criteria for listing support ... the kernel initializes and some communication can be done with the console	03:15
elb	keep in mind that for embedded systems that's normally "enough"	03:15
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Grackle	I dunno elb, a lot of stuff on there is damn well supported. Handheld devices are sketchier because of weird hardware, but a random selection of ports brings up a lot of supported devices and peripherals.	03:17
elb	well, they also pruned the list for 4.0	03:17
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elb	so maybe it's not as bad as I remember	03:17
elb	(gcc had even dropped support for some of the supported platforms)	03:17
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Grackle	Well anyway, I don't really want netbsd, I just figured I'd look into it.	03:19
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johnx	that's good. It will be enough of a challenge just getting a new linux kernel when we eventually want one	03:20
Grackle	Yes, I've been wondering about that.	03:20
johnx	the important thing will be to poke Nokia to release the binary part of the wireless driver in a way that makes it possible to abstract	03:22
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Grackle	What do we have right now?	03:22
Navi	I'd just like some power management	03:23
johnx	the binary part is a loadable kernel module so it's bound to a specific kernel version	03:23
Navi	right now	03:23
johnx	Navi, we could strace wlancond I guess	03:23
Grackle	Oh, is that how that works. Yuck, heh.	03:23
johnx	but really, given that iwconfig does something it might not be too hard	03:23
Navi	Heh	03:24
Navi	if it did nothing, I wouldn't be able to connect to my router	03:24
johnx	err...that iwconfig power on does something	03:24
Navi	:)	03:24
johnx	:P	03:24
Grackle	https://garage.maemo.org/forum/forum.php?forum_id=1236 What about this, johnx?	03:25
johnx	right	03:25
johnx	there are two parts	03:25
Grackle	Oh, and that's the open part.	03:25
johnx	yes, from what I understand	03:25
johnx	I'm not a kernel hacker	03:26
Grackle	I figured you weren't missing out on something that was right on maemo.org :P	03:26
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johnx	nope, though I wish I was. :/ I took that source and a patch on the mailing list that addes wext18 support to cx3110x and that's why Debian has wpa support through wpa_supplicant	03:27
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Navi	don't we all wish we were?	03:27
Grackle	http://www.omegamoon.com/blog/index.php?entry=entry080512-191044 whee	03:28
johnx	whee!	03:29
johnx	seriously...people have this weird thing for ubuntu	03:29
johnx	I just really don't get it...	03:30
Navi	Ubuntu = god	03:30
Navi	All praise Ubuntu	03:30
Navi	UBUNTU? Did you say Ubuntu?!	03:30
Grackle	I don't think it's weird. It's well maintained and well marketed.	03:30
johnx	the key is the last point	03:30
johnx	but I mean specifically for putting it on ARM devices	03:31
Navi	Doesn't matter how great Ubuntu is	03:31
Navi	People just have a thing for it	03:31
Navi	It doesn't matter how well it actually works	03:31
johnx	exactly...there's been debian running on the Z since approximately forever but as soon as someone spends like months making ubuntu work and gets that working, everyone goes nuts	03:32
Grackle	Well johnx, I say let them do it. There's a lot of interest in it, there's a large community, and there's good marketing. Canonical managed to get ubuntu onto dell machines. Maybe they could make their way into the pda market.	03:32
GeneralAntilles	OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG UBUNTUUBUNTUUBUNTU	03:32
sp3000	mushroom mushroom	03:32
Navi	heh	03:33
johnx	Grackle, they're free to do whatever they want...but it's pretty silly to put that much effort into ubuntu rather than just taking the part of ubuntu they don't like and grafting it onto the already working Debian setup	03:33
johnx	s/don't/do	03:34
Navi	The stuff that's already there is great	03:34
Grackle	It's politics, mostly.	03:34
Navi	we don't need to split up a niche market even more :P	03:34
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johnx	Navi, exactly...that's why for a while I wasn't sure if pushing forward with Debian was the right thing to do	03:35
Navi	Debian on the Zaurus or N800?	03:35
johnx	n800	03:35
Navi	nah, pushing that is a good idea	03:36
KotCzarny	push, baby, push push	03:36
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Navi	weird	03:38
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Navi	I'm trying to send a rar over scp	03:43
johnx	.rar's are weird	03:43
Navi	I can't extract them on the N800	03:44
Navi	I can on my PC	03:44
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KotCzarny	do you have unrar?	03:44
Navi	...	03:44
KotCzarny	;)	03:44
Navi	Anyways, extracting it fails	03:45
johnx	hey...the wireless actually went to sleep after 51 seconds :D	03:45
johnx	wireless power saving works! muahahaha	03:45
Grackle	haha	03:46
Grackle	51 seconds	03:46
Grackle	ncie	03:46
Grackle	nice	03:46
Navi	johnx, cool	03:46
Navi	how'd you do it?	03:46
johnx	iwconfig wlan0 power on	03:46
Navi	:P	03:46
johnx	that's the one setting that works	03:46
Navi	I need to alias ls to ls --color	03:47
johnx	and it gives me in dmesg: "cx3110x: PSM dynamic with 51020 ms CAM timeout."	03:47
KotCzarny	johnx: make it 4s	03:47
johnx	KotCzarny, the whole point is I can't	03:47
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KotCzarny	:)	03:47
johnx	that's the only option: 51.02s or always on	03:47
KotCzarny	oh, well	03:47
johnx	yeah, it should help a bit	03:48
Navi	heh	03:48
Grackle	How are you trying to set the period?	03:48
johnx	iwconfig wlan0 period 1	03:48
johnx	doesn't matter what I give it	03:49
johnx	timeout doesn't work either	03:49
Navi	iwconfig wlan0 power saving <insertnumberhere> doesn't work either :P	03:49
johnx	nope	03:49
johnx	I tried like every option for power that I could find	03:49
Grackle	how about timeout <number>u	03:49
Grackle	oh ok	03:49
Grackle	:/	03:49
johnx	Grackle, I haven't tried u yet	03:49
Grackle	or ms	03:50
Navi	I've tried with power saving	03:50
johnx	tried m for ms	03:50
Grackle	Might work, seeing how it outputs in ms	03:50
johnx	no love	03:50
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Grackle	:/	03:50
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johnx	it might be possible to implement more wext stuff in the open source driver	03:50
Navi	Mmm	03:51
Navi	qcomicbook works nice	03:51
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johnx	uhm...well I did something and now ssh is acthing skitchy	04:00
johnx	poking around in /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap	04:01
KotCzarny	power timeout can affect ssh performance	04:01
johnx	I did echo 1 > psm	04:01
johnx	psm ?= power saving mode	04:01
KotCzarny	dmesg\|tail ?	04:02
johnx	nothing but the usuall VMMC stuff	04:02
KotCzarny	try 1000 ?	04:03
KotCzarny	or better yet, what was the default?	04:03
KotCzarny	before you changed it	04:03
KotCzarny	:)	04:03
johnx	I can't...I tried to echi 2 at it and echo hung	04:04
johnx	it was 2	04:04
Navi	hey, cool	04:04
Navi	the wifi chip area isn't burning hot anymore	04:04
KotCzarny	maybe it's a simple on/off then	04:05
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johnx	I would laugh pretty hard if wlancond is just a running echo n > /sys/foo	04:05
Navi	lol	04:05
johnx	...but I think it might be for a lot of stuff	04:06
johnx	like channels, mac address, txpower	04:06
Navi	eh	04:06
Navi	weird	04:07
Navi	none of my hardware keys are working	04:07
johnx	did you just reboot and they stopped working?	04:07
Navi	yep	04:07
johnx	try killing X and starting it again	04:08
Navi	mmk	04:08
johnx	ok iwconfig wlan0 power off causes psm to be 0, and power on makes it 2	04:08
KotCzarny	try 3 then	04:08
johnx	hang	04:08
KotCzarny	5 6?	04:09
johnx	will have to reboot first I guess	04:09
KotCzarny	or iwconfig down maybe?	04:09
KotCzarny	rmmod ?	04:09
johnx	did that	04:11
johnx	didn't come back up	04:11
johnx	woo	04:12
johnx	and it's back	04:12
Navi	:P	04:14
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johnx	I think 2 is dynamic and 1 is powersave	04:16
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johnx	I should boot back to os2008 and see what it does under that	04:17
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* Grackle installs strace		04:20
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johnx	1 might be the "agressive" powersaving from so2008	04:21
johnx	not sure	04:21
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johnx	ssh certainly feels the same as in os2008	04:21
johnx	get some DPMS love into the X server and maybe call it done :D	04:22
_berto_	dudes, vagalume 0.6 is out -> http://blogs.igalia.com/berto/2008/05/15/vagalume-06-released/	04:22
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johnx	hot sauce	04:23
GeneralAntilles	When's Vagalume gonna spare us the repository stupidity and move to Extras? :\	04:24
_berto_	as soon as they give me the account	04:24
_berto_	:)	04:24
_berto_	I've already requested it	04:24
Navi	:P	04:24
GeneralAntilles	Speed things up, badger X-Fade_. :P	04:24
johnx	I'll get a debian/armel build running :)	04:26
Navi	:D	04:26
johnx	darn...wmaker is pretty useless without right click :(	04:27
Navi	of course, the old build is still there	04:27
johnx	old build?	04:27
Navi	apt-cache search vagalume	04:27
johnx	oh, suppose so	04:28
johnx	I didn't realize it already got into debian	04:28
johnx	that was fast	04:28
_berto_	last version	04:28
_berto_	this one isn't uploaded yet	04:28
_berto_	but it should be tomorrow	04:28
johnx	that's ok...I'm curious about compile time	04:29
_berto_	you mean this? -> http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=agarcia%40igalia.com	04:30
johnx	fair enough, curiosity satisfied	04:32
johnx	saves me installing a build env on my n800 too	04:33
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johnx	so nice to see such a slick little app in this era of "everything + the kitchen sink" media players	04:33
_berto_	well, even if I wanted to do a huge media player (which is not the case) I don't have time for more :D	04:35
johnx	honestly, if vagalume was a huge all-encompassing thing I think it would lose a lot of its charm to me	04:35
johnx	I open it, hit play and music comes out	04:35
_berto_	I don't plan to do that	04:36
johnx	good :)	04:36
Navi	heh	04:36
_berto_	in fact I try to make all the new features optional at compile time, in case anyone wants just the basic player	04:37
Navi	I was just going to use your tarball as my chroot in the maemo sdk	04:37
Navi	and build on there :o	04:37
* johnx needs to do a new sbox install grumble		04:37
Navi	:)	04:37
johnx	right now I build on my zaurus :D	04:38
Navi	lol XD	04:38
Navi	must be hell	04:38
johnx	it's not bad for small stuff	04:38
Navi	I can't wait too long :P	04:38
johnx	and big stuff is unlikely to succeed, so...	04:38
Grackle	Is building on the zaurus any better than building on the n800?	04:38
johnx	oh it's a lot worse	04:38
johnx	half the RAM, slower SD hardware, slower CPU	04:39
Grackle	Why don't you build on the n800 then?	04:39
Navi	:P	04:39
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johnx	I guess I could but I didn't really have a nice debian environment til now	04:39
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Grackle	Use the repos from your scratchbox installation and set up a build environment in ITOS	04:40
johnx	plus I can't boot to USB on the N800 and that represents the biggest flash storage I own right now	04:40
Grackle	That's what I did, it works nicely.	04:40
Grackle	oh	04:40
johnx	It should be possible	04:40
johnx	but if I looked into every interesting side project I'd never have released anything...	04:40
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Grackle	hah, true	04:41
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dick-richardson	got the vpn back :D	04:44
Navi	I thought you could boot USB	04:48
johnx	I should be able to poke at bootmenu.conf and have it just work	04:49
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_berto_	i need to sleep	04:55
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_berto_	bye all	04:55
johnx	'night _berto_	04:55
Navi	bye _berto_	04:56
johnx	thanks for the new vagalume release :)	04:56
_berto_	you're welcome, enjoy :)	04:56
Navi	Woo vagalume \o/	04:56
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Navi	ffs	04:56
Navi	10mb download >_>	04:56
Navi	still haven't switched from the japanese repos	04:57
johnx	slow?	04:57
Navi	nah	04:57
Navi	just takes a while to connect	04:57
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Navi	ugh	05:00
Navi	now I don't have any sound	05:00
johnx	in anything?	05:00
Navi	in anything	05:00
johnx	did you update a lot of alsa stuff?	05:01
Navi	All I did was install vagalume	05:01
johnx	sound still works here in mpd	05:01
johnx	but vagalume doesn't love me	05:01
Navi	channel spam time	05:02
johnx	you might try recopying everything from /mnt/rootfs/usr/lib/alsa-lib	05:02
Navi	May:/home/user# alsamixer	05:02
Navi	dsp_protocol_probe_node(): Could not open pcm device file /dev/dsptask/pcm3	05:02
Navi	dsp_protocol_probe_node(): Could not open pcm device file /dev/dsptask/pcm_rec1	05:02
Navi	dsp_protocol_probe_node(): Could not open pcm device file /dev/dsptask/pcm3	05:02
Navi	dsp_protocol_probe_node(): Could not open pcm device file /dev/dsptask/pcm_rec1	05:02
johnx	O_o	05:02
johnx	what about alsamixer -D master	05:02
dieman	yay	05:03
dieman	found a psp case for my n810	05:03
dieman	neoprene ftw	05:03
Navi	no error	05:03
Navi	oh yeah	05:04
Grackle	A PSP case fits your N810?	05:05
Grackle	How well?	05:05
GeneralAntilles	Considering that the PSP is several orders of magnitude larger than the N810. . .	05:06
Navi	johnx, reminds me	05:06
johnx	mm?	05:06
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Navi	I like your choice of song that you picked to come with debian	05:06
johnx	ahahaha	05:06
Grackle	Yeah.. I wouldn't think it would fit at all, really.	05:06
johnx	I was so freakin' tired when I spun that last tarball	05:07
KotCzarny	abba?	05:07
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johnx	Moxy Fruvous	05:07
johnx	awesome song :D	05:07
Navi	:)	05:07
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KotCzarny	never heard of	05:07
KotCzarny	:)	05:08
johnx	Moxy Fruvous - King of Spain	05:08
KotCzarny	http://www.vr-zone.com/articles/MSI_Wind_PC_Actual_Product_First_Look/5774.html	05:08
Navi	I'm rebooting to see if it helps	05:09
KotCzarny	looks like wii pc	05:09
Grackle	hah, it does	05:09
Grackle	it's cute	05:09
Navi	Oh yeah	05:09
Navi	They're nerfing the Linux one :P	05:09
johnx	yeah	05:09
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Grackle	Lame.	05:09
johnx	512MB of RAM is fine...but the 3 cell battery hurts	05:09
Navi	then they'll probably complain that the Linux PCs aren't getting as many sales	05:10
Grackle	weird song, johnx	05:10
johnx	:D	05:10
Navi	and microshaft will use that to catapult themselves into the ultra low cost market	05:10
johnx	hah	05:10
Grackle	It's not bad, it's just strange	05:10
KotCzarny	with xp home?	05:10
* KotCzarny vomits		05:10
KotCzarny	:)	05:10
Navi	vomit indeed	05:11
Navi	but end users don't know the difference	05:11
KotCzarny	games will play, right	05:11
johnx	MS has taken an utterly inept strategy at dealing with low-end, cheap x86 sub-portables	05:11
KotCzarny	somehow	05:11
Navi	Hey look! We have a few copies of XP Home laying around	05:11
* Navi looks at the several warehouses full of them		05:12
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Navi	We'll give them to you if you follow our guidelines	05:12
johnx	but you can't use them on any machine with more than X MB of RAM or a >1GHz CPU unless we change our minds	05:12
Grackle	Heh, they don't need physical copies.	05:12
KotCzarny	i wonder if cpu upgrade would be allowed	05:12
KotCzarny	:>	05:12
Grackle	Nobody ships install discs anymore.	05:12
Navi	The Isaiah and the Atom don't count in the 1GHz llimit	05:12
KotCzarny	xp detected that your cpu is too fast, bsod	05:13
KotCzarny	:)	05:13
johnx	KotCzarny, CPUs probably aren't socketed in those kind of machines	05:13
Navi	Lol	05:13
KotCzarny	johnx: that would suck when your mobo dies	05:13
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Navi	Pfft	05:13
Navi	cheap pc	05:13
Navi	just buy a new one	05:13
Navi	reboot fixed it	05:14
Navi	I wish the headphone jack worked	05:15
johnx	Navi, it does...	05:15
Navi	Oh	05:15
johnx	just enable it in mixer :P	05:15
johnx	headset amplifier or somesuch	05:15
Navi	gah	05:15
Navi	not having modest installed is really fucking me over	05:15
Navi	I'm several days behind on email	05:15
Navi	d	05:16
johnx	I know...it forces me to stay up to date too	05:16
Navi	Does it?	05:16
johnx	it blinks that damn blue light at me from across the room unless I at least read me mail	05:16
Navi	Heh	05:17
johnx	ah, would you mind pastebining /var/log/messages from when sound wasn't working?	05:17
johnx	kinda interested to see if the dsp task died or something...	05:17
Navi	sure	05:17
Navi	after I get my network up, swap enabled, and power on	05:18
johnx	in that order?	05:18
johnx	I put swap in /etc/fstab	05:18
Navi	You'd think that'd be a weird order	05:18
Navi	Nah, I'm much too lazy to put it in fstab	05:18
johnx	I don't see why	05:18
Navi	I haven't even changed the repo yet	05:19
Navi	network for ssh	05:19
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Navi	swap's in my bash history	05:19
johnx	it's funny that you did the whole keyboard thing then :)	05:19
johnx	I was putting off looking at that	05:19
Navi	heh	05:19
Navi	lucky you	05:20
Navi	I wanted it more than you :P	05:20
Grackle	damn it	05:20
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Grackle	hums 'now I eat humble pie'	05:20
johnx	ahahaha	05:20
Navi	Hehe :D	05:20
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Navi	it's catchy indeed	05:21
Navi	I had it on loop for a while	05:21
johnx	it was the one song I could stand to listen to over and over as I messed with the settings for mpd	05:21
pupnik	http://www.thechurning.com/?p=327 there's a catchy song too	05:23
Navi	the collapsed interface in gmpc is nice	05:25
Navi	not the fully collapsed interface	05:25
Navi	the middle one	05:25
Navi	hmm	05:26
Navi	needs a toggle	05:26
johnx	that looks nice	05:26
Navi	sound that is	05:26
johnx	I think I'll just switch to sonata now though	05:27
Navi	haha	05:27
Navi	playing with the n800 speakers as well makes sound richer	05:28
Navi	even though the n800 speakers suck :/	05:28
johnx	they really don't for something that size though	05:28
Navi	yeh	05:28
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johnx	you have start comparing them to a pretty decent laptop before they lose	05:29
Navi	Oh yeah, the song also fits nicely in the midrange tones	05:29
Navi	which the N800 does nicely	05:29
* Grackle decides to play some music on his n800 now		05:29
johnx	probably wasn't the best to test with	05:29
Navi	probably not	05:30
Grackle	yay soma.fm	05:30
johnx	BTW, if you end up with distortion in mpd tweak the write_size in mpd.conf	05:30
Navi	mmk	05:30
Navi	I'll scp over some full ranged music	05:30
Navi	more complicated too :P	05:31
Grackle	Hmm, the n800 drives my massive headphones nicely.	05:31
Navi	Heh	05:31
Navi	needs an equalizer	05:31
Grackle	yeah	05:31
johnx	heh...my zaurus has settings for bass and treble with various cut-offs	05:31
Navi	GA's going to come in any moment and say equalizers suck :P	05:31
Navi	show-off	05:32
johnx	but I don't know how to set them so that it sounds good O_o	05:32
GeneralAntilles	No, Navi sux.	05:32
Navi	no u	05:32
Navi	johnx, tell me how well sonata performs	05:33
johnx	ok	05:33
Navi	If it sucks, I'll go bitch at stonecrest ^_^	05:33
johnx	thought it was fine on my zaurus	05:33
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johnx	I don't see it being worse	05:33
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EruditeHermit	hey, does anyone know how to set microb to the useragent string of the iphone?	05:36
Navi	about:config	05:36
livinroom	dont you mention the Zaurus here	05:36
Navi	ZAURUS	05:36
Navi	ZAURUS	05:36
livinroom	BURN THE WITCH!	05:36
EruditeHermit	what string in about:config	05:36
Navi	I don't remember, actually	05:37
Grackle	And what do we use to burn witches?	05:37
Navi	sorry	05:37
livinroom	well, fire	05:37
livinroom	fire burns	05:37
Grackle	MORE WITCHES!	05:37
Navi	Grackle, cdrkit	05:37
livinroom	sooo	05:37
Navi	real men use wodim to burn witches	05:37
johnx	why can't we all just get along?!	05:37
livinroom	i just burned a CD on my n800 using an external USB cd burner	05:37
johnx	EruditeHermit, google: microb user agent	05:37
johnx	second result	05:37
livinroom	and i burned, to cd, mp3's stolen from itunes on my iphone over a wireless network! AH-HA!!! AM I NOT THE GREATEST?	05:38
johnx	you rascally pirate you	05:39
Navi	ooh	05:39
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Navi	really bad distortion	05:39
pupnik	the equalizer on xmms is quite useful	05:39
pupnik	hey wb unique311	05:39
pupnik	btw a nice project would be a gstreamer based equalizer, i think	05:40
unique311	whats up	05:40
pupnik	ordered a HD camera just to film the tablet screen..	05:40
pupnik	heh	05:40
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Navi	Woo	05:41
Navi	Good job	05:41
Navi	:)	05:41
GeneralAntilles	I still think the low-light sensitivity is gonna be bad. :P	05:41
Navi	I still think you're bad	05:41
pupnik	i'm happy lcuk will be at linuxtag cause his work will dovetail nicely into the stuff i will present as 'still sucking' about emulators	05:42
pupnik	GeneralAntilles: you're almost certainly right	05:42
pupnik	will crank the brightness and hope for some kind of usable results	05:42
KotCzarny	pupnik: http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/data/doc/gstreamer/head/gst-plugins-good-plugins/html/gst-plugins-good-plugins-plugin-equalizer.html	05:44
KotCzarny	:)	05:44
pupnik	whoah	05:44
KotCzarny	available in: 0.10.8	05:44
KotCzarny	gstreamer project has a lots of stuff	05:44
KotCzarny	see for yourself: http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/documentation/plugins.html	05:44
Navi	Yeah, they do	05:45
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KotCzarny	it could be useful for people bragging about webcam app too	05:47
johnx	Navi, startup is slow as it pulls in all of python	05:50
Navi	Yeah, figured as much	05:51
johnx	but after that it seems ok	05:51
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* Grackle considers taking apart his n770 (which now no longer has a purpose) and hacking it into something, with a USB keyboard and lots of battery and IO		06:07
Grackle	s/now //	06:07
Grackle	I have a pretty nice project box that it could fit in.	06:09
GeneralAntilles	What's an N770?	06:09
johnx	a Nokia770 I assume	06:09
Grackle	sorry nitpicker, a 770	06:09
johnx	Grackle, use it as a remote :)	06:09
GeneralAntilles	:P	06:09
Navi	GeneralAntilles, it's the next generation N series phone	06:09
GeneralAntilles	770 makes an awesome media remote/ebook reader.	06:10
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johnx	Grackle, or put Debian on it :D	06:10
GeneralAntilles	Plug it in next to the couch or bed or something.	06:10
johnx	do you have a 1GB RS-MMC?	06:10
GeneralAntilles	Actually, the 770 is probably the BEST ebook reader.	06:10
Grackle	Only one, and that's in my n800	06:10
Navi	Lies	06:10
Grackle	What? I'd definitely take a kindle over anything else.	06:10
GeneralAntilles	Pfft	06:11
Grackle	That tiny LCD screen is hell on my eyes at night	06:11
GeneralAntilles	Kindle doesn't fit in your pocket.	06:11
Navi	Hehe	06:11
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GeneralAntilles	The NIT screens are great for reading.	06:11
Navi	But it's easier on the eyes :P	06:11
Grackle	What's easier on the eyes?	06:11
GeneralAntilles	Kindle also doesn't have a backlight	06:11
johnx	it	06:11
GeneralAntilles	So you can't read in the dark.	06:11
Grackle	I don't want to read in the dark	06:11
Grackle	staring at brightly lit things in the dark is hell for your eyes	06:12
KotCzarny	usb led light	06:12
GeneralAntilles	That's why you turn down the backlight to minimum.	06:12
Navi	nah	06:12
Navi	johnx, we totally need an lcd system tray applet	06:12
Grackle	Or... I can just have a shelf full of books and a lamp. :P	06:12
* Grackle keeps it simple		06:12
johnx	we should foojack the one for the zaurus	06:12
GeneralAntilles	Books are hard to keep and move	06:13
GeneralAntilles	shelving space isn't free	06:13
Navi	johnx, we should indeed	06:13
Grackle	I'd like to make a portable ham radio setup. That would be fun.	06:13
johnx	it probably just writes values into someplace in /sys	06:13
GeneralAntilles	The shelving space is for my interesting/collectible books.	06:13
johnx	actually...we could foojack all of zaurusd in the interim	06:13
elb	heh denying the benefits of e-ink is pure fanboyism	06:14
Navi	johnx, can we already adjust the lcd brightness?	06:14
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johnx	elb, yeah, I'm a fan of color	06:14
johnx	Navi, echo 10 > /sys/somewhere	06:14
Navi	I'm a fan of backlights	06:14
elb	oh, there are definitely benefits of LCD as well	06:14
GeneralAntilles	Navi, read the wiki page.	06:14
Grackle	color for reading books?	06:15
johnx	it's on the wiki	06:15
Navi	Bleh	06:15
elb	but e-ink really is easier on the eyes	06:15
Navi	I already read the wiki page a few times and forgot everything	06:15
Navi	I'm not going to read it again :P	06:15
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johnx	grep -i brightness wiki-page :P	06:15
GeneralAntilles	RTFM, bitch!	06:15
Grackle	artie effum	06:16
shapr	The lyfe so short, the Craft so long to lerne	06:17
Grackle	Does the bluetooth module do any sort of power saving?	06:17
johnx	I have no clue	06:17
Grackle	My iGo bluetooth keyboard is rather slow, it seems. Or maybe the screen just updates slowly.	06:17
johnx	this is in os2008, right?	06:17
Grackle	Nope, not a screen update problem. Just used screen and ssh to test that.	06:18
Grackle	Yes, OS2008	06:18
johnx	it's slow with a usb keyboard too	06:19
Grackle	Actually, typi.. yeah	06:19
Grackle	I noticed that.	06:19
Grackle	Strange.	06:19
Grackle	How is it when running debian?	06:19
johnx	let me plug my keyboard in...	06:20
Navi	heh	06:20
Navi	ITT forums time	06:20
Navi	Anyone believe the guy who said the N900 coming at the end of Q3?	06:21
GeneralAntilles	+/-3 months	06:21
GeneralAntilles	I very much doubt Nokia has it pinned down that hard.	06:21
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johnx	I'd bet late 2008/early 2009	06:21
johnx	should be just fine for me :)	06:22
johnx	I just hope they keep the keyboard	06:22
pupnik	what's most important for the maemo community to have fixed-up for the N900 launch?	06:22
EruditeHermit	fast browser	06:22
EruditeHermit	which diablo might fix	06:22
EruditeHermit	GPS that locks in <1 min	06:23
johnx	EruditeHermit, that's not really a community thing and no diablo won't fix it	06:23
johnx	neither thing, actually	06:23
Grackle	I'd like serious thought put into usability.	06:23
pupnik	repeat. community.	06:23
Navi	pupnik, video	06:23
Grackle	Software usability, that is.	06:23
pupnik	video what?	06:23
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Navi	the removal of the bus limitation in general	06:23
pupnik	that's nokia hardware issue	06:24
Navi	Yeah :P	06:24
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	06:24
Navi	Oh, maemo	06:24
Navi	Uh	06:24
GeneralAntilles	I don't particularly care about the software.	06:24
pupnik	what community projects are lagging that would help sell the N900?	06:24
johnx	the question was about maemo and the community especially	06:24
GeneralAntilles	Shipping Chinook on OMAP3 is good enough for me.	06:24
Navi	pupnik, you know the answer to that.	06:24
Navi	PIM	06:24
Navi	PIM	06:24
Navi	PIM	06:24
Navi	etc etc	06:24
EruditeHermit	how about specifications for application genres	06:24
Navi	Personally, I don't care	06:24
johnx	syncing I might be able to look at actually...	06:24
Grackle	now we know it 3 times	06:24
EruditeHermit	everyone makes their own category in app manager for their section	06:25
GeneralAntilles	EruditeHermit, they're working on it.	06:25
johnx	Grackle, no lag in Debian. I think it might have to do with word prediction taking up CPU time	06:25
Navi	pimlico needs to be rewritten to catch up with pimlico on openmoko	06:25
GeneralAntilles	Though there was an awful lot of jerky reactionism to the idea on the lists. :\	06:25
shapr	speaking of debian, does anyone know if the random number generator problem in Debian is also in maemo?	06:26
johnx	too many arguments from people without better ideas	06:26
GeneralAntilles	I'm real tired of the lists these days.	06:26
shapr	I know lots of people who'd buy an N800 if it had a decent PIM.	06:26
johnx	shapr, you can run ssh-vulnkey on your keys on your tablet if you want	06:26
Navi	johnx, yeah, there's a lot of tearing in xfce4 :/	06:27
GeneralAntilles	The community needs to pick a PIM suite and get behind it.	06:27
pupnik	agree on the PIM Navi. What's the next most requested thing that fits in with the 'internet tablet' use case?	06:27
johnx	Navi, try running fb_update_mode manual	06:27
Navi	Fine	06:27
mrlanrat	calendar?	06:27
Grackle	johnx: disabled word completion and friends, let's give it a shot..	06:27
Grackle	Nope, still laggy as hell.	06:27
Navi	pupnik, that's hard to say	06:28
johnx	Grackle, I still think it might be a CPU usage thing	06:28
Grackle	Well I won't worry about it too much, I won't be playing in ITOS much. :)	06:28
EruditeHermit	problem with PIM is that they'd have to write desktop software to sync it for Win, Linux and OSX	06:28
GeneralAntilles	Why?	06:28
GeneralAntilles	Just use an open standard	06:28
Navi	Well, you can sync pimlico with evolution crap.	06:28
Grackle	johnx: You don't have bluetooth working in debian yet, do you?	06:28
Navi	you can sync gpe to google calendar and such	06:29
EruditeHermit	GeneralAntilles: Windows doesn't have opensync on it does it?	06:29
johnx	Grackle, it works fine	06:29
GeneralAntilles	They could probably integrate it with their existing sync stuff.	06:29
GeneralAntilles	I don't want a PIM from Nokia, anyway.	06:29
GeneralAntilles	Nokia forces software to be shitty.	06:29
Grackle	johnx: with keyboards? I didn't see it, but I didn't look very hard either.	06:29
johnx	well the bluetooth works	06:29
EruditeHermit	I use GPE and sync with opensync anyway	06:30
johnx	I assume you just set it up the same way you do on any other debian system	06:30
johnx	I don't have a bt keyboard so I can't test	06:30
Grackle	I suppose so. I'll have to look into how that's done.	06:30
pupnik	Yeah PIM and calendar. Maybe we can somehow encourage ppl to get active in that?	06:30
johnx	well, I'm glad I got mirrors this time. O_o 3.37GB of Debian transfered from one of the mirrors	06:31
l7	re	06:31
Navi	johnx, which?	06:31
l7	how does Nokia force software to be shitty?	06:31
pupnik	also i'd love it if ssvb got some sponsorship and dev boards for mplayer on n900	06:31
johnx	debian.i2c4.com	06:31
GeneralAntilles	I'd like to see people get behind Pimlico	06:32
Navi	heh	06:32
l7	i have been wondering why there's no PIM in the n800	06:32
Navi	GeneralAntilles, still needs a rewrite	06:32
Navi	l7, it's not that there isn't a PIM suite on the N800	06:32
johnx	I read that as GeneralAntilles needing a rewrite :P	06:32
Grackle	haha	06:32
GeneralAntilles	Probably.	06:32
l7	Navi: lack of sync maybe?	06:32
Navi	it's just that there isn't a easy-enough-for-lazy-people-to-sync	06:32
GeneralAntilles	l7, stupid UI spec, slow ass release cycles of what amounts to unstable software, stupid UI spec	06:33
Navi	johnx, there's a lot of iceweasel stuff in the repos for there not being an iceweasel build	06:34
Navi	>_>	06:34
pupnik	being compatible with microsoft is kind of a nightmare	06:34
johnx	that's a debian thing	06:34
johnx	it's all built automagically	06:34
Navi	mmk	06:34
dieman	i just use sandy as a pim through twitter	06:35
Navi	I used google's stuff for a while	06:36
EruditeHermit	gronmayer is down	06:36
Navi	then got lazy with pim and wrote it all down in maemopad+	06:36
Navi	:P	06:36
dieman	i really like sandy	06:36
dieman	iwantsandy.com	06:36
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Navi	speakers need to mute when plugging in the headphones	06:37
johnx	that's the kind of stuff that dsme handles if it's hooked up to dbus I guess	06:38
Navi	bleh	06:39
Navi	It feels like my brain is melting when I go through the Ubuntu forums	06:39
anothy_lite	i have scratchbox w/ a rootstrap that can build d run things on maemo. no x11 libs or headers, though. how does one add those?	06:40
Grackle	It's probably in an x11-dev package or somesuch	06:41
Navi	Wow	06:41
Navi	there's a lot of crap in alsa-base	06:41
anothy_lite	but none of the rootstraps i've seen have the pkg stuff.	06:42
Grackle	I don't know much about that. I got fed up with setting up scratchbox and just used the vmware appliance.	06:43
anothy_lite	i suppose u could copy the libs from the device, but that doesn't seem right.	06:43
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anothy_lite	i tried that earlier today, actyally; dowlnloa link's broken.	06:44
EruditeHermit	anothy_lite: if you add maemo repository, it has a lot of the packages	06:44
anothy_lite	download, too.	06:45
l7	GeneralAntilles: well yeah i agree that maemo's UI is sadly kludgey	06:45
l7	why is it so hard to get a decent UI design?	06:45
GeneralAntilles	Because decent UI design is hard.	06:46
GeneralAntilles	and means different things to a lot of different people.	06:46
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l7	do you need someone like steve jobs cracking the whip to make it work?	06:46
l7	that would be rather unfortunate	06:46
Navi	I don't like the UI on any of the apple hardware	06:47
Navi	s/hardware/products/	06:47
infobot	Navi meant: I don't like the UI on any of the apple products	06:47
pupnik	anothy_lite: apt-get whatever you need - the headers are in -dev packages	06:47
Navi	Minus the iPod	06:47
Navi	that patented circle scrolly thing is nice	06:47
l7	i'm not a huge apple fan either, but i think they do manange to do a few things right	06:47
l7	yeah the way the circle thing and the ipod touch's screen require less pressure to work is nice	06:48
Navi	well, the touch screen is because of how it's made. I say it's too sensitive :P	06:48
l7	hmm, personal preference then	06:48
l7	i find the n800 requires a bit too much effort to make it "click"	06:49
Navi	not to me	06:49
johnx	added a todo section to the Debian wiki: http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debian#TODO	06:49
* Navi looks		06:49
johnx	if you have something that needs to be fixed/improved/added, please put it up	06:49
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Navi	I'm a selfish bastard	06:50
Grackle	#TODO.21	06:50
Navi	no way am I putting it up	06:50
Grackle	Is there any way of getting xset to do that?	06:50
Navi	heh, all three are out of my league	06:50
Grackle	actually, I don't think that's necessary	06:50
johnx	Grackle, the xomap server doesn't support DPMS	06:51
johnx	there's a patch but it needs to be compiled	06:51
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Grackle	There's a patch to make it support dpms, or there's a patch to make xset support xomap?	06:51
johnx	patch to make xomap support dpms	06:51
johnx	I should really get unlazy and compile it	06:51
johnx	but not right now	06:51
johnx	need to take a shower and head off to work	06:52
Navi	johnx, aren't you tired?	06:52
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johnx	yeah	06:52
johnx	so it won't be today	06:52
Navi	heh	06:52
Grackle	Head off to work? o.o	06:52
Grackle	Where do you live?	06:52
Navi	damn	06:52
johnx	Japan	06:52
Grackle	oh, ok :P	06:53
johnx	and I work afternoon shift at this job	06:53
ds3	johnx: so you get all the nice new toys?	06:53
johnx	hahaha...all the nice new toys I can't afford	06:53
Navi	:)	06:53
johnx	nah, the N800 was my last real electronics purchase	06:53
johnx	Japan is a freakin' expensive place to live	06:54
ds3	akabara(sp?)	06:54
johnx	akihabara has some neat stuff	06:54
Navi	Wonder how well comix runs	06:54
johnx	but ordering online in the US is usually cheaper	06:54
Navi	haven't bothered to check	06:54
ds3	except for stuff you can't get in the US like the last few Z's	06:54
johnx	true	06:54
johnx	there's a store that had a rack of used Zs	06:55
ds3	SL6000W's?	06:55
johnx	I don't remember	06:55
johnx	http://flickr.com/photos/johnxx/452167911/	06:55
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ds3	all clam shells :(	06:56
ds3	and 5xxx's	06:56
Navi	clam shells are alright IMO	06:56
johnx	they get different stuff in from time to time	06:56
johnx	if I'm up there again I'll look for	06:56
Navi	It's a used rack afterall	06:56
ds3	a SL6000W would be nice... almost like a N800 but with Xscale	06:57
johnx	and without the nice OS2008	06:57
ds3	QT isn't too horrible... I think there are more software for the QT stuff then the N800	06:57
johnx	OS2008 may be weak in areas but it was light years ahead of Sharp's ancient QTopia	06:57
johnx	anyways, off to work now	06:58
johnx	'later all	06:58
Navi	bye	06:58
Grackle	cya	06:58
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mrlanrat	wow, everyone is leaving....	07:15
GeneralAntilles	New to IRC, then?	07:16
mrlanrat	this channel, yes.	07:17
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GeneralAntilles	It's a 200+ person channel, people places to be and lots of timeszones. ;)	07:17
GeneralAntilles	Just wait for the netsplits.	07:17
mrlanrat	yha...	07:18
Grackle	Is this channel really that big?	07:18
* Grackle /names		07:18
Grackle	wow	07:18
GeneralAntilles	Not compared to some channels.	07:18
GeneralAntilles	Like, say, #ubuntu.	07:18
mrlanrat	yha, wow	07:18
mrlanrat	245 ppl	07:18
Grackle	No, but surprisingly large for a rather niche community.	07:18
GeneralAntilles	Eh, ITT has about 30k	07:19
KotCzarny	active nicks is ~20-30	07:19
Grackle	I guess I'm just easily impressed.	07:19
megabyte405	this channel is a lot more sane compared to #ubuntu	07:19
megabyte405	#ubuntu is useless since there is no way to follow a threaed of discussion	07:19
megabyte405	I asked a question, and by the time I remembered to check for an answer my question had already been scrolled _out of my scrollback_ - not just off the screen	07:20
KotCzarny	fun	07:20
KotCzarny	:)	07:20
GeneralAntilles	megabyte405, well, that and other reasons. :P	07:20
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mrlanrat	anybody know when qwerty12 comes online?	07:33
KotCzarny	he lives on gmt+0	07:34
mrlanrat	ok	07:34
GeneralAntilles	Whenever the hell he wants to. :D	07:34
mrlanrat	lol	07:34
KotCzarny	not true	07:34
KotCzarny	school calls	07:35
KotCzarny	hehe	07:35
mrlanrat	lol	07:35
mrlanrat	hey, im on IRC during school sometimes. ;)	07:35
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mrlanrat	N810!	07:35
KotCzarny	bad. you should be learning	07:35
KotCzarny	:)	07:35
mrlanrat	lol	07:36
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mrlanrat	Hey, GeneralAntilles, are you getting my PMs?	07:36
pupnik	is PMS infectious?	07:36
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KotCzarny	pupnik: more like sychronized	07:37
mrlanrat	Personal Messages....	07:37
pupnik	attempt at humor: epic fail	07:37
KotCzarny	moon, pheromones etc	07:37
KotCzarny	lol	07:37
KotCzarny	looks like i read 20 first chars at most	07:37
KotCzarny	:)	07:37
GeneralAntilles	mrlanrat, here or ITT?	07:38
mrlanrat	Here	07:38
GeneralAntilles	No	07:38
GeneralAntilles	You registered?	07:38
mrlanrat	?	07:38
mrlanrat	no	07:38
GeneralAntilles	/msg nickserv register <password>	07:38
mrlanrat	huh?	07:38
GeneralAntilles	Non-registered users can's pm on freenode.	07:38
mrlanrat	o	07:38
GeneralAntilles	/msg nickserv help	07:38
KotCzarny	not true	07:38
mrlanrat	so how do i regester?	07:39
KotCzarny	you can turn off that feature	07:39
mrlanrat	?	07:39
GeneralAntilles	/msg nickserv register <password>	07:39
KotCzarny	'feature'	07:39
GeneralAntilles	Pick your password.	07:39
mrlanrat	k	07:39
summatusmentis	I have a question, less about maemo, and more about the n810 hardware when compared to a Z	07:39
GeneralAntilles	Faster.	07:39
mrlanrat	its 123 so i should do "/msg nickserv register 123"?	07:39
mrlanrat	(im joking)	07:39
GeneralAntilles	Well, no, because everybody would know your password. :P	07:39
* GeneralAntilles is reminded of a bash quote.		07:40
mrlanrat	which one?	07:40
GeneralAntilles	http://www.bash.org/?244321	07:40
mrlanrat	ahh	07:40
mrlanrat	i like that one	07:41
summatusmentis	has anyone used a zaurus 3200? I'm considering purchasing an n810, and selling my 3200	07:41
GeneralAntilles	johnx is really the local Z guy.	07:42
Navi	Yeah	07:42
GeneralAntilles	He just left for work, though.	07:42
summatusmentis	oh, ok	07:42
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GeneralAntilles	summatusmentis, you could PM him on ITT if you don't want to wait around.	07:44
summatusmentis	GeneralAntilles: I don't know what ITT means	07:44
Navi	summatusmentis, internet tablet talk	07:44
Navi	http://www.internettablettalk.com	07:44
summatusmentis	when will he be back? does he IRC from work?	07:45
Navi	no	07:45
summatusmentis	mk, so in like... 8 hours	07:45
GeneralAntilles	Less, probably.	07:46
summatusmentis	but not w/in the next hour and a half :)	07:46
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Grackle	Weh. I can't get utelnetd to woik.	08:28
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zenzen	Hi	08:30
zenzen	i have one question and hope that someone could help me with that	08:30
Grackle	Shoot.	08:31
zenzen	Thanks	08:31
zenzen	I need to mount a local directory from my n800 into a another linux system	08:32
GeneralAntilles	sshfs?	08:32
GeneralAntilles	sftp?	08:32
zenzen	I want to make a directory from my n800 shared (used) by another linux system (Router) which has limited memory resources	08:33
zenzen	What i'm doing: i connect to the router using ssh	08:33
zenzen	while i'm on it, i use "mount.cifs //192.168.1.141/share /mnt/share -o username=root"	08:33
zenzen	but i'm getting error	08:34
Grackle	If I were you, I would ssh forward through the router	08:34
Grackle	rather than actually log into it	08:34
Grackle	see ssh -l	08:35
Grackle	but anyway	08:35
Grackle	What error are you getting?	08:35
zenzen	"mount error 146: connection refused"	08:35
Grackle	sorry, ssh -L	08:35
zenzen	the linux system is on the router	08:35
zenzen	the router has a firmware Legend on it	08:36
Grackle	Well, what is the purpose of this?	08:36
zenzen	Ok	08:36
zenzen	my router has 16MB of memory	08:36
zenzen	firmware takes i think 13MB	08:36
zenzen	so, as soon as i excute a programm, its memory is full	08:36
KotCzarny	buy another router	08:37
KotCzarny	seriously	08:37
KotCzarny	:)	08:37
zenzen	:D	08:37
zenzen	:D	08:37
KotCzarny	i have wrt54g	08:37
KotCzarny	but i have customized my openwrt	08:37
KotCzarny	so i can run some programs	08:37
KotCzarny	:)	08:37
KotCzarny	it has 16mb of mem, and it shows..	08:38
zenzen	I know it can be done but i prefer to know how to do it, even if i've already hacve another router (wrt54GL)	08:38
zenzen	it shows ...?	08:38
KotCzarny	do what?	08:38
KotCzarny	mount remote dir on it?	08:38
zenzen	yes	08:38
KotCzarny	hum	08:38
zenzen	mount a directory from n800 into it	08:38
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zenzen	i can see shared directories on desktop XP	08:39
KotCzarny	is there a sshfs for your firmware?	08:39
zenzen	i don't know	08:39
KotCzarny	hum	08:39
zenzen	i've used mount.cifs and it worked with xp	08:39
KotCzarny	if you want to go samba/cifs way	08:39
zenzen	with n800 nothing	08:39
KotCzarny	then you must have server on n800 running	08:39
KotCzarny	ie. samba	08:40
KotCzarny	that's why you get conn. refused	08:40
zenzen	i'm not sur if i'm doing the right thing in my n800. I don't know how to make a directory shared in my n800 and if //192.168.1.141/share point to /home/user/MyDocs/share	08:40
zenzen	Exaclty	08:40
zenzen	How to enbale Samba	08:40
KotCzarny	zenzen: instal samba on n800	08:40
zenzen	How?	08:40
KotCzarny	find a package	08:40
KotCzarny	:)	08:40
zenzen	Where is it? :d i can't find it	08:40
*** foka_ is now known as foka		08:41
zenzen	They said that samba is included in n800, no?	08:41
KotCzarny	who?	08:41
KotCzarny	not on mine	08:41
KotCzarny	:)	08:41
zenzen	they said Buil-in, no?	08:41
KotCzarny	maybe client side software	08:41
zenzen	perhaps i misunderstood some ITT posts	08:41
KotCzarny	but not server	08:41
zenzen	i really can't find samba server	08:41
zenzen	i checked most repositories but nothing	08:42
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zenzen	i found old posts about os2007 but nothing now	08:42
KotCzarny	heh, gronmayer is b0rken	08:42
KotCzarny	Fatal error: Call to undefined function: curl_init() in /var/www/gronmayer.com/htdocs/it/_init/functions.inc.php on line 227	08:42
KotCzarny	:)	08:42
KotCzarny	sorry, can't help more than than	08:42
pupnik	nfs is builtin now	08:42
zenzen	oh yes :D, but i checked using Google cache :D	08:42
mrlanrat	Its been down all day :(	08:43
pupnik	or wait, is it? i forgot	08:43
n800n	anyone here used statua?	08:43
KotCzarny	pupnik: i think you need nfsd module	08:43
KotCzarny	and few others	08:43
KotCzarny	and rpc.portmap	08:43
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pupnik	i was using it as client, ignore me	08:43
KotCzarny	and nfsd :>	08:43
KotCzarny	ignore you? never!	08:43
KotCzarny	:)	08:43
zenzen	can someone confirm me that there is indeed a samba server package for os2008? Thanks.	08:44
pupnik	zenzen: normally the easiest place to search is gronmayer.com/it	08:44
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zenzen	ok i'll check when it is up, thanks	08:45
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pupnik	http://youtube.com/watch?v=Mpoc1X7FzjI german television report on LinuxTag 2007 showing Nokia N800s used as bluetooth controllers for lego robots @ 3:30	08:55
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n800n	geil	09:01
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GeneralAntilles	Hrw, how's mouse support under Debian?	09:01
GeneralAntilles	Erm, false highlight.	09:02
GeneralAntilles	s/Hr/Ho/	09:02
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Navi	:\|	09:05
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Navi	it's fine	09:05
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GeneralAntilles	No plug'n'play. . . .	09:08
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Grackle	Hooray, debian sid running on my tablet. :)	09:09
Navi	woo	09:09
Grackle	I was having stupid problems because I put utelnetd in the wrong place.	09:09
* Grackle was looking for it in /usr/sbin, but he had put it in /usr/bin		09:09
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* qwerty12 is going through second install of sdk. Stupid gnome-stones messing up deps :/		09:13
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Navi	:P	09:23
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qwerty12	Hater :P	09:27
Stskeeps	Grackle: you did it through debootstrapping manually?	09:34
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RST38h	morning	09:39
qwerty12	morning	09:39
RST38h	All right, try http://fms.komkon.org/iNES/ines_3.6.0-1_armel.deb	09:40
RST38h	check this	09:40
qwerty12	w00t, nice :)	09:40
RST38h	not yet released but will be	09:40
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pupnik	ice job RST38h	09:46
* qwerty12 wants to kill brightspark who thought ff 3.0 in Ubuntu 8.04 was a good idea. I'm seriously tempted to use Opera or ie4linux		09:47
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RST38h	thanks pupnik	09:48
RST38h	qwerty: it is a weird choice but what is specifically wrong with it?	09:49
qwerty12	The random crashes	09:49
GeneralAntilles	qwerty12, it's a good plan, actually.	09:49
RST38h	does not crash for me although I hate the new history button placement	09:49
GeneralAntilles	The idea was to not have to support version 2 for forever. ;)	09:49
qwerty12	GeneralAntilles, maybe but I wish they had.	09:50
GeneralAntilles	Push to 3 now and have a little short-term pain while it's finalized and save a LOT of longterm pain supporting 2 for forever.	09:50
qwerty12	Maybe because I'm using pulseaudio :/	09:50
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qwerty12	GeneralAntilles, when you put it like that, it sounds worthwhile :)	09:50
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GeneralAntilles	Yeah, I thought the same thing. ;)	09:51
RST38h	Choice between pain and suffering? =)	09:52
qwerty12	Dunno, I'm gonna use Opera for the time being.	09:53
qwerty12	Not really a fan of it but at least it's stable for me.	09:53
qwerty12	(I hate that it looks like windows too under linux >.<)	09:53
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GeneralAntilles	Hehe	09:55
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qwerty12	Oh yeah to anyone, does your sound in Debian beta3 work without speaker amplification turned on?	09:57
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qwerty12	It's pretty cool in debian, I can have sound going to the headphones and to the speakers at the same time. Pointless but fun :p	09:58
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Navi	qw:P	09:59
Navi	oh, left	09:59
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mbuf	other than the source maemo-mapper, is there any documentation on how openstreet maps are displayed on the application?	10:14
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zenzen	Hi	10:24
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zenzen	it's me again	10:24
zenzen	i just want to say thanks	10:25
zenzen	Actually, i installed the shfs-utils on my router	10:25
zenzen	and instead of mount.cifs i used "shfsmount" to do it.	10:25
zenzen	Everything worked as expected. Thanks again and have a good night.	10:26
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czr	hmm. with RESOLVED FIXED, should I change the status to 'VERIFIED' when I agree that a bug is fixed?	11:59
czr	can't remember.	11:59
kulve	my guess: you should set it to verified when you can verify the fix on some release	12:02
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_berto_	yes	12:02
proxyvictim	hello cruel world	12:03
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aquatix	cruel world says hello to proxyvictim	12:07
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hrw	RST38h: do you know that firefox allow to customize buttons?	12:12
rm_you	johnx: GeneralAntilles: one of you entertain me somehow :P	12:12
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* GeneralAntilles dances.		12:14
rm_you	lol	12:14
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GeneralAntilles	rm_you, you ever find out how Nokia managed their retarded applets?	12:15
rm_you	timeless sent me some interesting Pseudocode...	12:15
rm_you	but not sure i know enough about GTK to figure it out, since the Hildon API is just BLANK on the page about the thing i need	12:15
GeneralAntilles	Ha	12:16
GeneralAntilles	Random letters and numbers until it works?	12:16
* aquatix hands rm_you an infinite amount of monkeys and laptops		12:17
GeneralAntilles	Nice that you keep those on hand.	12:18
aquatix	yeah, always come in handy	12:18
aquatix	need a big basement though	12:18
aquatix	so i generally just park them on a space station near the center of our Milky Way and teleport things to and fro	12:19
* aquatix cackles madly and continues working		12:19
rm_you	i wish I had infinate laptops :P	12:19
aquatix	ghehe	12:19
aquatix	shall i dcc you some?	12:20
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: i can do GTK if i have guides, or even (most importantly) an API to work from	12:20
rm_you	all i need to do is KNOW THE FUNCTIONS I CAN CALL!!!	12:20
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	12:20
GeneralAntilles	But you don't get to.	12:20
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* rm_you kries		12:20
rm_you	timeless: you thar?	12:20
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GeneralAntilles	Also, a prefs dialog would be useful.	12:24
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kulve	lardman: your questions at the wiki doesn have a question :)	12:34
kulve	lardman: at least 2/3 of them	12:34
kulve	https://maemo.org/community/wiki/questionsfornokia/	12:34
kulve	those questions	12:34
lardman	rm_you: add this to the list of questions	12:34
lardman	kulve:hmm, will have a look	12:34
rm_you	k	12:35
lardman	rm_you: I'm about to edit it though, so hang on a min or two	12:36
trickie_	dneary: cool, my questions were added and i didn't even send them to you	12:36
dneary	No JackCrow?	12:36
trickie_	dneary: nice foraging :)	12:36
dneary	trickie_: I picked up questions off the mailing list thread & the IRC chat	12:37
dneary	Navi: Ping?	12:37
trickie_	yep nice	12:37
dneary	No Morpheuz?	12:37
X-Fade_	dneary: Morpheuz is in Brazil, so probably not awake yet :)	12:37
trickie_	dneary: Morpheuz maybe on #canola	12:37
trickie_	and what X-Fade_ said	12:38
dneary	Will wait	12:38
dneary	Getting organised for the wiki reorg	12:38
dneary	Had a tough time getting a definitive list of all the wiki pages	12:38
lardman	rm_you: all yours	12:38
dneary	Got it now	12:38
dneary	Now I'm looking at the wiki syntax for midgard and mediawiki, see if I can script the migration at all	12:39
dneary	After that, the hard work starts - deleting pages that need to be deleted, or more likely removing them from the pages to migrate	12:39
lardman	Shall we split that page into "status requests" - i.e, drivers, etc. and "why is this software closed questions"?	12:39
dneary	Identify pages that need updating/refreshing, pages that are historical, ...	12:40
X-Fade_	dneary: Midgard uses Markdown.	12:40
dneary	lardman: I'll leave you to be the judge :)	12:40
GAN800	I want that open/closed table.	12:40
dneary	Indeed, they're different types of questions	12:40
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lardman	dneary: depends on what's easiest for the Nokians to parse & reply to	12:40
lardman	I'm tempted by a section for software components, preferably with a reason why we want/need it to be open so Nokia have something to judge it on	12:41
dneary	lardman: Go for it, if you think it's a logical separation	12:42
trickie_	lardman: that sounds useful	12:42
lardman	if someone else wants to do it now go ahead, otherwise I'll do some editing a bit later on	12:43
GAN800	Is there a package dump that might be usable for something like that?	12:43
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lardman	GAN800: well really people should justify why they want something I think; that will go down better with Nokia	12:45
lardman	GAN800: in which case the list is in your head.	12:46
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GeneralAntilles	Well, from a documentation standpoint	12:46
GeneralAntilles	having a list of everything and its open/closed status is useful.	12:46
lardman	there used to be a package list in the sdk dir iirc	12:46
lardman	download dir that is	12:46
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GeneralAntilles	Then work from that to put together a list of the important things that should be opened.	12:47
trickie_	lardman: i will try and qualify my questions tonight	12:48
lardman	trickie_: ok	12:48
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lardman	X-Fade_: ping	13:01
X-Fade_	lardman: pong	13:02
lardman	Can people attach themselves to pages, to be notified that a change has been made?	13:02
X-Fade_	In the wiki, you can..	13:03
lardman	I've just received a bounced message which I was supposed to have sent to zword@dlfp.org, regarding the changes I just made to the wiki page	13:03
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lardman	strange that the maemo site sends an update from my email address?	13:04
X-Fade_	Hmm that should not be.	13:04
trickie_	lardman: i had the same	13:04
lardman	X-Fade_: I can email it to you if you'd like to have a look see	13:04
trickie_	seems that when i create a new wiki page that address was already 'attached'	13:04
X-Fade_	trickie_: You can attach to the index, so every new page is mailed to you..	13:05
lardman	but the notification should still be sent by maemo, not masquerading as me, imo	13:05
X-Fade_	lardman: I'll try check it out.	13:05
trickie_	X-Fade_: ah ok, well that address seems to be bouncing everytime at the moment, for every wiki action	13:06
lardman	X-Fade_: thanks	13:06
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trickie_	no bother to me anyway, as gmail thinks its backscatter spam i think	13:07
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lardman	ok, so regarding the QuestionsForNokia page, how many categories do we want to have?	13:10
RST38h	lardman: One	13:12
RST38h	lardman: Titled "WHY?"	13:13
lardman	:)	13:13
RST38h	Or you may want to have it tiered, 1st tier being "WHY?", 2nd being "WTF?"	13:13
trickie_	1. Currently Closed Components, 2. Future Issues/Components, 3. Nokia <-> Community Contact	13:16
trickie_	?	13:16
trickie_	i dunno, i should be working :) i will be around later if i can help	13:16
pupnik_	community priorities	13:17
pupnik_	the community is always griping 'nokia this' 'nokia that'	13:17
pupnik_	imo fwiw	13:18
lardman	pupnik_: yes, which is why having a decent way of asking questions would be useful for both sides	13:18
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lardman	how do I do tiered lists in the wiki?	13:20
pupnik_	then again i see most productive people are individualist	13:20
pupnik_	doing the things they want because they want to do them	13:20
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GeneralAntilles	Incentive is a little weak for any other sort of work. ;)	13:21
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GeneralAntilles	You're not getting paid and the love and adoration of the community usually doesn't pan out.	13:23
hrw	can someone change a bit styling of headers iin old maemo wiki?	13:23
lardman	anyone, two layers of bullet points in the wiki?	13:24
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GeneralAntilles	I could tell you for mediawiki. :P	13:24
hrw	lardman: try **	13:24
lardman	tried, not quite what I was after though: https://maemo.org/community/wiki/questionsfornokia/	13:25
hrw	lardman: headers should be used for that	13:25
hrw	but current maemo wiki styling is ...	13:26
lardman	but the level 1 and 2 headers look identical	13:26
lardman	ah, yes styling is broken	13:26
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hrw	someone know when mediawiki will be open for editing?	13:26
lardman	if anyone wants to alter the headings, etc. please do so	13:27
lardman	i.e. change the descriptions, add others, etc.	13:27
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hrw	wiki styles block any sensible altering	13:30
hrw	headers are broken, definiton lists too	13:31
lardman	hrw: raise a bug?	13:31
GeneralAntilles	Why bother?	13:32
GeneralAntilles	Be like raising a bug on osso-email at this point. :P	13:32
hrw	lardman: I prefer website guys to finish mediawiki instead	13:32
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hrw	lardman: whole maemo.org site is insane	13:32
hrw	forced size to 776px instead of xx% etc	13:33
lardman	I'm quite sure they would like some input though	13:33
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lardman	In fact there's that midgard mailing list too	13:33
hrw	with few css tweaks page is more readable but it still ugly is	13:34
FreeNom	re	13:34
X-Fade_	hrw: Yeah, the font handling is on my TODO list. We really need to fix that..	13:34
hrw	X-Fade_: also remove 'width:150px' from <dt>	13:34
X-Fade_	Patches are welcome :)	13:35
hrw	X-Fade_: my patch willb e too intrusive	13:35
lardman	but will still show intent	13:35
lardman	I was hoping for lots of replies to my email ;(	13:37
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GAN800	Threats of violence tend tend to work well, lardman. ;)	13:45
lardman	ah well, I'll leave those until later on this arvo	13:46
hrw	X-Fade_: http://pastebin.com/d524005ad	13:46
hrw	X-Fade_: should be readable on 800x480 and also on 1680x1050	13:46
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hrw	not touched h1/h2/h3	13:48
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hrw	font sizes in general are weird on maemo.org	13:49
hrw	<li class="h1"> is sick too	13:50
lardman	heading size could do with tweaking though	13:51
lardman	sizes	13:51
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hrw	lardman: 'toc' frame needs smaller font, numbering etc	13:52
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johnx	hey rm_you	14:37
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lopz	morning	14:41
johnx	mornin'	14:41
lardman	morning	14:41
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lardman	http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9448 I'm not going mad, thank goodness	15:35
aquatix	lardman: hey	15:35
lardman	hi aquatix	15:36
aquatix	does that also have to do with the mouse?	15:36
aquatix	i think i noticed something similar on my laptop	15:36
lardman	It appears to be 2 bugs, both of which I suffer from; the repeat until xserver reset is related to holding a key down and using the mouse at the same time	15:36
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aquatix	yeah, i've encountered something similar	15:39
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lardman	hmm, do I need to enable the "[Download The Nightly SVN Tree Snapshot]" function in a Garage project?	15:50
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lardman	just that although I have files in svn I can't get a snapshot of them for some reason	15:55
X-Fade_	lardman: That seems to be disabled. Or at least I get a 404 ;)	15:57
lardman	ok	15:58
X-Fade_	I'll ask around to get the answer why..	15:58
lardman	thanks	15:58
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Grackle	Stskeeps: I did the --foreign debootstrap on my laptop, then moved the card to my n800, where I did the --second-stage and a bunch of configuration in a chroot. Installed utelnetd using johnx's instructions from the itt wiki, and it works. :)	16:01
RST38h	double loop with strcmp() inside	16:01
* RST38h waits for any present programmers to throw up		16:01
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lardman	~lart crc calculations	16:09
* infobot moos at crc calculations		16:09
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Grackle	Heh RST38h, I kind of ignored that, but that does indeed sound awful.	16:10
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* lardman likes the low complexity of the low complexity sub band encoder		16:13
RST38h	lardman: Out = (In[0]>>6)+((In[1]>>6)<<2)+((In[2]>>6)<<4)+... ?	16:14
lardman	unfortunately not quite that simple :)	16:15
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hrw	RST38h: ((In[0]>>6)<<0) you mean?	16:16
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lardman	nice that there's very little in terms of 8bit chars :)	16:22
lardman	other than the acursed crc calculations ;)	16:22
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lardman	drat, long long is used though	16:23
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gnuton	Hi	16:30
SDuensin	Greetings.	16:30
_berto_	GeneralAntilles: vagalume in maemo-extras at last ;)	16:30
gnuton	which package contains dpkg-preconfigure on 4.1 sdk? Can anyone run a dpkg -S dpkg-preconfigure ? Thanks	16:30
* SDuensin really needs to get his Maemo dev stuff set back up. <sigh>		16:31
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RST38h	hrw: Cut byte to two upper bits	16:34
RST38h	hrw: so that you essentially "compress" 4 bytes into one	16:34
RST38h	[of course, ignoring the minor issue of losing 25% precision]	16:35
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gnuton	Does anyone run 'dpkg -S dpkg-preconfigure' on his sdk environment? i can't install my sdk env without it!	16:35
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Grackle	Haha, fanoush on N800 CPU speed in OS2007: "Yes, it is fixed (or variable if one insists) as in "any out of two possible values - 330 and 0" :-)"	17:00
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dneary	JackCrow: Ping?	17:19
dneary	Navi: Ping?	17:19
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jdiaz	I have to check latest vagalume	17:26
jdiaz	and I suppose I should add d-bus support to wiicontrol	17:26
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_berto_	jdiaz: yes! :)	17:28
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X-Fade_	_berto_: I'll try to find out what went wrong with your autobuild..	17:30
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dneary	X-Fade_: I'm making headway on the migration question	17:31
_berto_	did it break ?	17:32
dneary	Have a manual way to adjust formating, but it doesn't always work properly	17:32
_berto_	probably the lack of build-depends :)	17:32
dneary	Using pandoc and html2wiki	17:32
dneary	But it's slow	17:32
dneary	For one page, you spend 10 or 15 minutes	17:32
dneary	We should try to do a mass dump of wiki pages if possible	17:32
X-Fade_	_berto_: Yeah, I guess so. But i'll find out..	17:33
dneary	And a mass conversion + import	17:33
_berto_	thx	17:33
X-Fade_	dneary: That sounds like a plan? :)	17:33
dneary	In the meantime, I think we'll get started with reviewing the wiki content	17:33
dneary	The mass conversion should be easy once I have a dump	17:33
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dneary	The import, I don't know how that'll work	17:33
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Navi	dneary, pong	17:52
qwerty12	ping	17:53
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cjohnson	I'm trying to make a symlink, so that /home actually points to /extfs/home, I tried "ln -s /extfs/home /home" only for some reason when I go into /home there's another home folder, which is the actual folder	17:53
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dneary	Navi: Hi there	17:53
dneary	I've started working on a plan for migrating the wikis	17:53
derf	cjohnson: That's the way ln works when the target is an existing directory.	17:53
qwerty12	ln -s /extfs/home /	17:53
dneary	Right now it's a mess, with a big manual process for each page	17:54
dneary	We're trying (with Niels) to help automate as much of it as possible	17:54
Navi	mmk	17:54
dneary	But it turns out that changing from markdown to mediawiki syntax isn't as straightforward as I thought it would be	17:54
cjohnson	qwerty12, same result, I end up with home within home	17:54
qwerty12	derf is probably right then	17:55
cjohnson	derf, so how might I link my physical folder "/extfs/home" to a folder "/home" ?	17:55
dneary	So, I've decided that we should review the wiki content first, and make the migration a braindead dump & load, if at all possible	17:55
derf	You need to get the existing directory out of the way, first.	17:55
dneary	Are you still willing to help?	17:55
cjohnson	derf, i did, /home doesn't exist	17:55
cjohnson	derf, I renamed it to home-bak	17:55
qwerty12	I'd just try emelfm2. Works when cmd line tools doesn't.	17:56
derf	Then qwerty12's suggestion should have worked.	17:56
Navi	dneary, sure	17:57
derf	You can also try stick a -T in front of the target, but I can't see why that would matter if it doesn't exist.	17:57
cjohnson	ah, i'm retarded	17:58
dneary	Navi: Rocks!	17:58
cjohnson	i somehow ended up making it /extfs/home/home/user instead of /extfs/home/user	17:58
Navi	dneary, just tell me what you want me to do	17:59
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dneary	First thing we need to do is go through https://maemo.org/community/wiki/wikireorg/ and fill out the various sections	17:59
dneary	(pages to delete, pages that need updating, pages that can be archived as historical data)	17:59
dneary	The (almost) complete list of pages in the wiki is here: https://maemo.org/community/wiki/wikipagelist/	18:00
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Navi	kk	18:01
cjohnson	How can I do a commandline compare folders	18:02
cjohnson	I copied /var to /extfs/var and I want to make sure it's the exact same	18:02
Grackle	Well that was dumb. dragged the wiki toolbar out of his firefox window and now he can't click on it	18:02
trickie_	cjohnson: use rsync	18:02
Grackle	It's out of the rendered area... And fixed there. >.<	18:03
Navi	bleh	18:03
Navi	I don't remember my maemo password	18:03
cjohnson	trickie_, rsync isn't on maemo	18:03
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jdiaz	cjohnson, you can ls > /tmp/list on both directories	18:04
jdiaz	and then diff the lists	18:04
qwerty12	cjohnson, it can be found	18:04
jdiaz	if all you want is to compare filenames, that is	18:04
trickie_	cjohnson: its around somewhere im sure, and it will ensure that all files and dirs and attributes are correctly 'replicated'	18:04
cjohnson	trickie_, found it, apt-get install ftw :D	18:05
trickie_	cool	18:05
cjohnson	trickie_, just to make sure i'm understanding properly	18:05
X-Fade_	Navi: https://garage.maemo.org/account/lostpw.php	18:05
cjohnson	rsync /var /extfs/var	18:05
cjohnson	is that correct to replicate /var to /extfs/var?	18:05
trickie_	cjohnson: id read the man page for rsync	18:05
trickie_	you probably want -a also	18:06
Navi	Thanks X-Fade_	18:06
trickie_	i thinks that the option	18:06
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sp3000	E: Couldn't find package ftw	18:07
sp3000	:(	18:07
jdiaz	also:	18:07
sp3000	if only it were that easy	18:07
Grackle	You probably want to increase verbosity as well, rsync by default is not very verbose.	18:07
trickie_	cjohnson: rsync -av /var /extfs/	18:07
trickie_	but read the man page as trailing slash on the src means somethign diff	18:08
jdiaz	(cd /var; tar cf - )\| (cd /extfs/var; tar xf -)	18:08
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cjohnson	trickie_, thanks :D	18:08
trickie_	np	18:09
\|\|cw	--progress is a handy rsync option	18:09
jdiaz	this also should work: (cd /var; tar cf - *)\| (cd /extfs/var; tar xf -)	18:09
trickie_	jdiaz: you probably also want to use the -p option to preserve all attributes	18:09
trickie_	for a dir like var	18:09
\|\|cw	-a includes -p	18:09
trickie_	but yeah	18:09
jdiaz	oh yes	18:09
trickie_	\|\|cw: well he used neither	18:10
\|\|cw	as well as others, like copy links and device files	18:10
trickie_	yup	18:10
\|\|cw	but oddly, not acl's	18:10
jdiaz	cjohnson, you can also use tar to finnd differences among directories	18:11
cjohnson	jdiaz, I was mostly aiming for replicating a directory	18:12
cjohnson	jdiaz, but how might I use tar to do that?	18:12
cjohnson	jdiaz, for future reference	18:12
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trickie_	jdiaz: rsync -n will be faster i think	18:13
trickie_	which would just show what it would do	18:14
jdiaz	tri, I'm assuming that rsync is not available :-)	18:14
trickie_	:)	18:14
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cjohnson	jdiaz, it is	18:14
cjohnson	apt-get install rsync	18:14
cjohnson	and i'm sure it's available on my ubuntu desktop	18:14
jdiaz	then, better use rsync	18:14
cjohnson	alright then	18:15
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Navi	:/	18:16
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lardman	another auto-start question	18:18
lardman	!	18:18
cjohnson	so here's what I've done, wondering if you guys have any thoughts about it as far as good or bad	18:18
lardman	Probably deserves pride of place, along side how to open a browser at a given site, on the front page of maemo.org in big red letters	18:18
cjohnson	I partitioned my internal memory card as 512MB VFAT, and 1.5GB EXT2	18:18
cjohnson	then I just copied /home and /var to the EXT2 partition	18:19
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Navi	Wow	18:19
Navi	Didn't know the username was case sensitive :/	18:20
cjohnson	and now made a symlink from /extfs/var to /var (after copying /var to /extfs/var	18:20
cjohnson	can you guys think of anything that might cause a problem?	18:20
tank-man	what are you doing? booting from mmc ?	18:20
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fysa	just running var and home from ext2?	18:21
cjohnson	I'm booting normally	18:21
cjohnson	all I've done is move my /var and /home dirs to the ext2 partition and symlink back	18:22
fysa	I'm not positive that maemo respects fstab, so make sure you are mounting these from rc.local or something.	18:22
fysa	oh, I see.	18:22
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cjohnson	I'm just trying to get the majority of the large storage folders off the internal memory	18:22
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cjohnson	I'm thinking /opt and /usr as well, and just leave the rest on disk	18:23
fysa	I would have just mounted the /media/mmc2/home to /home probably. never tried symlinkg home or var.	18:23
cjohnson	I was going to do mounting but my friend said that symlink is a low level, and I may have better results	18:23
cjohnson	and I'm not too knowledgeable about the under the hood of mounting and symlinks and the like	18:24
tank-man	why not have the root filesystem on the mmc?	18:25
tank-man	and boot from it	18:25
lardman	why are you moving it at all? out of space?	18:26
cjohnson	I'm moving for more storage	18:26
cjohnson	I have 2 sd slots and other than OS I don't plan on having much kept	18:26
lardman	but do you not have enough, or just think you need more?	18:26
cjohnson	so I want to use the internal to extend the internal	18:26
cjohnson	I don't have enough	18:27
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lardman	fair enough	18:27
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lardman	is unionfs working yet?	18:27
qwerty12	Nah, cant be arsed to work on it.	18:27
Navi	heh	18:27
lardman	:)	18:27
lardman	would solve these sorts of problems though	18:28
qwerty12	The unionfs module actually works, it's just the mmc-unionfs scripts and startup stuff is odd :)	18:28
ricko73	we'll see how this behaves when in my car, but with the n810 sitting on my desk, facing the window, I have 4 or 5 sat's locked in with the internal gps	18:28
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cjohnson	tank-man, No particular reason not to move the root filesystem, is it much harder than my current setup?	18:28
tank-man	i thikn its much easier	18:28
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ricko73	qwerty12: are you using unionfs or aufs?	18:28
* qwerty12 remembers doing a unionfs on /home/user segfaulted my N800, hehe		18:28
qwerty12	ricko73, none	18:29
cjohnson	tank-man, This is pretty easy to me. rsync the originating folder to the new one, then symlink back	18:29
ricko73	If there is any plan to include or attempt to use one or the other, I would strongly suggest aufs over unionfs	18:29
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tank-man	booting from mmc is about the same steps, clone / to the mmc and then run the initfs_flash program to make it boot from mmc	18:29
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qwerty12	ricko73, hmm. Good point. I didn't know about that when I did a bad port of mmc-unionfs to OS2008 N800 2.6.21 kernel.	18:30
cjohnson	How long can I expect, realistically, the internal flash to last as far as read/writes	18:30
tank-man	probably long enough to not worry about it	18:30
ricko73	as long as log files aren't written to it, you shouldn't have to worry about it	18:31
qwerty12	Aii, gronmayer is down !	18:32
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lardman	cjohnson: at least 100,000 cycles per block	18:33
lardman	probably far more now, as that was the spec for the Zaurus sl5500	18:34
cjohnson	Which would translate to how long, time-wise, roughly?	18:34
lardman	depends on how much free space you have	18:34
cjohnson	before i started moving files to the mmc, about 64 megs	18:34
lardman	as that will concentrate wear on those blocks, unless jffs2 is more intelligent than I give it credit for	18:34
lardman	so assume the wear leveling works perfectly, and you only get one write per block per 64Mb written	18:35
Navi	qwerty12, was down yesterday night too	18:35
Navi	johnx, ping	18:35
lardman	cjohnson: lots of small files will increase the wear rate as the blocks are usually largish	18:35
cjohnson	Would an MMC card last roughly as long? I don't mind moving all the read/writes to the MMC, and just getting a new one when the current one wears out, as long as it's a whole lot shorter life span	18:35
qwerty12	Navi, Hmm, I actually decided to get some sleep y/day :/	18:35
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lardman	cjohnson: your device will be in a museum before you need to worry about it	18:36
Navi	qwerty12, :)	18:36
cjohnson	Awesome :D	18:36
qwerty12	:)	18:36
lardman	cjohnson: just thinnk about it, you could write 64Mb to that space repeatedly 100 times a day for ~3 years	18:37
lardman	or 3 times a day for 100 years, which sounds better :)	18:37
cjohnson	I'm a poor college student, 3 years isn't a long time between upgrades :P	18:38
* qwerty12 is compiling synaptic again. Since I have diablo and newer apt. It should work. But I have a feeling I may have to modify mmap patch for synaptic.		18:38
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lardman	cjohnson: I wouldn't worry; not worth the hassle of moving things piecemeal	18:38
cjohnson	piecemeal? I've never heard the term	18:39
lardman	cjohnson: bit by bit	18:39
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cjohnson	Alright. Thanks for the advice :D	18:39
lardman	cjohnson: run the whole system from an SD card if you must (but it's laggy imo)	18:40
lardman	np	18:40
cjohnson	I'll just stick with internal and expand to SD for the larger folders	18:40
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tank-man	laggy?	18:42
fysa	lardman, SD slower than internal flash?	18:42
fysa	do you have benchmarks of the internal flash?	18:42
lardman	fysa: no, but the system feels slow	18:43
tank-man	benchmarks will wear it out faster ! ;)	18:43
lardman	fysa: just a subjective impression	18:43
fysa	using updated kernel?	18:43
lardman	fysa: no	18:43
tank-man	it feels faster booting from mmc cause filesystem isnt compressed	18:43
fysa	hmm, my pastebin URLs didn't get logged for some reason	18:45
fysa	http://pastebin.com/f699c99	18:46
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fysa	bonnie against N800 with 48MHz MMC patch, Transcend 8GB Class 6 SDHC and 16GB Class 6 SDHC. (the 8 is twice as fast)	18:47
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fysa	that is with vfat only.	18:47
fysa	still need to test with ext2..	18:47
fysa	have not benchmarked internal flash, but believe this 8GB card would be favorable against it.	18:48
fysa	and have not tried without the MMC speed patch.	18:49
qwerty12	If you run linux, you could /boot/ not flash using standard kernel.	18:49
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lardman	fysa: yes, I imagine things are probably significantly better now	18:51
lardman	fysa: as long as the card doesn't go tits up	18:52
lardman	:)	18:52
cjohnson	mmc speed patch?	18:52
fysa	rsyncd is on my list. ;)	18:52
qwerty12	cjohnson, check fanoush's website	18:52
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cjohnson	thanks	18:54
cjohnson	crap	18:56
cjohnson	rsync doesn't copy permissions?	18:57
\|\|cw	cjohnson: -p, or -a	18:57
cjohnson	I did -a	18:57
\|\|cw	fat32?	18:57
cjohnson	ext2	18:57
cjohnson	crap crap crap	18:57
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\|\|cw	it does for me	18:57
\|\|cw	maybe you have a cut down version?	18:58
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cjohnson	I did apt-get install rsync	18:59
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cjohnson	I dunno, here's what happened. I copied /var and /home to my MMC ext2 partition, then renamed the originals and symlinked the MMC one in place of the other	18:59
cjohnson	so	19:00
cjohnson	/var -> /extfs/var	19:00
cjohnson	only I just tried to get on the device and like all the theming and wallpaper are no longer there	19:00
cjohnson	I just chown'ed and chmod'ed my /home dir back to normal, but the skins aren't working properly	19:01
cjohnson	so I'm imagining /var is messed up	19:01
cjohnson	I'm gonna reboot and see if that fixes	19:02
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cjohnson	hm, that did it	19:05
summatusmentis	johnx: are you around?	19:06
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brlancer	I've recorded something in iLBC format on my n770 and need to convert it to soemthing more universal; can anyone recommend a *nix utility to do the conversion?	19:09
Navi	summatusmentis, what do you need?	19:12
qwerty12	johnx wisdom'? :P (joke)	19:12
summatusmentis	Navi: I was told that johnx was the resident Z guy here, and I've got some questions regarding n810 vs. Z	19:12
Navi	Ah, right	19:13
Navi	You missed him a few hours ago	19:13
summatusmentis	I was sleeping a few hours ago :)	19:13
* qwerty12 was in school a few hours ago		19:13
hrw	summatusmentis: what kind of questions?	19:13
summatusmentis	mostly comparisons regarding the n810 vs the 3200	19:14
hrw	ah	19:14
hrw	I only had c3000 for short time	19:14
summatusmentis	you've stopped using Zs altogether, right hrw ?	19:15
qwerty12	N8*0 ftw	19:15
qwerty12	(I'm the resident idiot :P)	19:15
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summatusmentis	lol, ok :)	19:16
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hrw	summatusmentis: yes - I stopped	19:16
hrw	summatusmentis: my c7x0 is in a bad state	19:16
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summatusmentis	hrw: iirc I read your blog post about it	19:17
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summatusmentis	hrw: do you use a nokia tablet the same way you used your Z?	19:22
hrw	hard to tell	19:23
hrw	nokia tablets lack any pim which I would like to use	19:23
Cptnodegard	wtf is a Z?	19:23
GeneralAntilles	Zaurus	19:23
hrw	Cptnodegard: zaurus	19:23
GeneralAntilles	This soft poweroff bug is a little ridiculous.	19:23
GeneralAntilles	Just ship the goddamn fix. :\	19:23
hrw	summatusmentis: pimlico dates 0.4.x is too simple, libjana based Dates is openmoko only.	19:24
qwerty12	GeneralAntilles, Or rather the source :/	19:24
hrw	summatusmentis: gpe pim does not use same contacts base as nokia one	19:24
hrw	and nokia contacts app is more limited then my phone one	19:24
GeneralAntilles	qwerty12, we all know that wont happen in any of our lifetimes. :P	19:24
hrw	summatusmentis: my phone can use 2MPix pictures in contacts - maemo ver does not	19:24
qwerty12	Hehe true, I wonder how Austin made powerlaunch...	19:25
summatusmentis	and it's a different build system than OE, iirc.	19:25
GeneralAntilles	The fix has been made, they're just not shipping it because it's "unsupported"	19:25
qwerty12	Idiots.	19:25
qwerty12	(I mean Nokia :P)	19:25
hrw	summatusmentis: that does not matter.	19:25
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summatusmentis	how extendable is maemo? Can I get a terminal, ssh, web/email(thunderbird, ideally), office programs?	19:25
hrw	summatusmentis: as long as sources are provided OE can build maemo apps	19:26
summatusmentis	hrw: I see	19:26
hrw	summatusmentis: terminal, abiword, gnumeric are present	19:27
hrw	summatusmentis: web browsers better then internal one are also present. no idea about thunderbird	19:27
summatusmentis	do the web browsers work? that is one of my biggest issues on my Z right now	19:28
hrw	summatusmentis: it is internet tablet	19:29
qwerty12	:/	19:29
hrw	summatusmentis: at least nokia provided one (microb) works	19:29
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hrw	summatusmentis: it is not rocket but works	19:29
GeneralAntilles	hrw, there are no browsers better than the built-in one available. :\	19:30
summatusmentis	hrw: that's true. Fair enough	19:30
qwerty12	Fennec - How well does that work?	19:30
qwerty12	GeneralAntilles, LIES. links FTW	19:30
qwerty12	:P	19:30
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GeneralAntilles	Well, OK, if you throw in console stuff.	19:30
qwerty12	Hehe, I'm joking. Links sux :p	19:30
GeneralAntilles	But fennec/minefield is broken as shit, as is WebKit right now.	19:31
GeneralAntilles	Sure, they're going to get better, but right now, they really don't hold a candle to MicroB as far as usability goes.	19:31
lcdd	microb tends to crash on me like netscape back in the day. don't remember it if did that on a clean system	19:31
GeneralAntilles	Hasn't crashed on me in a long while.	19:31
qwerty12	:/	19:32
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lardman	re	19:32
qwerty12	hi	19:32
lardman	hey qwerty12	19:32
qwerty12	It is guaranteed I get at least 1 crash everyday in microb.	19:32
qwerty12	lardman, :)	19:32
GeneralAntilles	Site preferences have a lot to do with it	19:33
ricko73	qwerty12: I got more crashes on the original firmware than the latest	19:33
GeneralAntilles	Also, I suspect your insane plugin count doesn't help, qwerty12.	19:33
qwerty12	GeneralAntilles, all clean now :)	19:33
lardman	I find it too slow to use really	19:33
lardman	shame	19:33
GeneralAntilles	MicroB/	19:33
GeneralAntilles	You're kidding.	19:33
qwerty12	ricko73, Stock chinook is buggy as shit. SVN was great. Diablo isn't great either.	19:33
GeneralAntilles	Diablo isn't finalized.	19:34
lardman	no, just lots of waiting; annoys me	19:34
GeneralAntilles	Meh, it's better than any other web browser I've ever stuck in my pocket.	19:34
qwerty12	GeneralAntilles, true. But a SVN would have been nice.	19:34
GeneralAntilles	You want blazing fast, carry around a Core 2 laptop. :P	19:34
* qwerty12 still <3's NetFront on my PPC.		19:34
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hrw	GeneralAntilles: any firefox 3b5 based sould be faster then microb	19:34
Navi	GeneralAntilles, the best browser I've ever stuck in my pocket up 'till now is the PSP browser :D	19:34
GeneralAntilles	hrw, well duh. :P	19:35
lardman	GeneralAntilles: most of the time I'm within 2 min walk of a Core2 desktop, so perhaps that's why I don't use it much	19:35
qwerty12	Navi, PSP browser sux :P. I hate my PSP for web browsing.	19:35
Navi	It's fun	19:35
Navi	:P	19:35
GeneralAntilles	But the frontends on all the 3b5 stuff are all either crashy as hell or slow as hell.	19:35
qwerty12	Navi, Input is great, I prefer it to my N800 on that score but memory sucks. Should sell it and get a slim and lite. But I need to make pandora battery first :p	19:36
GeneralAntilles	lardman, I browse with mine all the time within spitting distance of my G5 powerhouse. :P	19:36
summatusmentis	I know this is the maemo channel, are there alternate 'roms' for the N8*0 series?	19:36
qwerty12	Poky off the top of my head	19:36
qwerty12	Debian	19:36
Navi	qwerty12, I'm comfortable enough to bust open the batteries and mod them myself.	19:36
lardman	GeneralAntilles: You're more tolerant then; dare I say it, I prefer my gf's iPod touch for web browsing	19:36
hrw	summatusmentis: s/roms/distros and then we can talk	19:37
GeneralAntilles	Ugh	19:37
GeneralAntilles	The iPhone pisses me off when browsing.	19:37
qwerty12	Navi, my electronic skills suckzors.	19:37
GeneralAntilles	It's no faster than MicroB	19:37
Navi	iPhone = crash	19:37
summatusmentis	hrw: ah yes, sorry. are there alternate distros for the N8*0 series?	19:37
GeneralAntilles	and the spacebar is in the wrong place. :\	19:37
Navi	Hey look guys, I can go to GOO... wait, Safari crashed	19:37
qwerty12	Tell me what goes after GOO!	19:37
hrw	summatusmentis: thx to nokia there is no alternative distro for nokia tablets	19:37
lardman	GeneralAntilles: probably not, but the random delays between rendering and accepting input in microb drive me scatty	19:37
GeneralAntilles	The lower resolution is also a huge pain.	19:37
Navi	Okay, I got on Goog... it crashed again.	19:37
qwerty12	MOAR	19:37
qwerty12	I need more letters	19:38
summatusmentis	hrw: hardware lockout?	19:38
Navi	WOO, Google loaded!	19:38
qwerty12	summatusmentis, Closed source components	19:38
lardman	ipod keyboard is very very crap though	19:38
hrw	summatusmentis: the ones that exists lack features (Poky) or use maemo as base (Debian rootfs)	19:38
qwerty12	Navi, thats all it was :( :P	19:38
Navi	>_>	19:38
hrw	summatusmentis: closed battery/wifi support	19:38
summatusmentis	:-/ sadface	19:38
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Navi	Who's using Debian rootfs?	19:38
hrw	Navi: no idea - but there are people which use it	19:39
summatusmentis	what is mamona?	19:39
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GeneralAntilles	Completely open source replacement for maemo.	19:39
Navi	summatusmentis, project that wants to be a fully open	19:39
lardman	OE/Poky based distro, but not sure if it actually runs	19:39
hrw	summatusmentis: mamona is OE based distro for tablets	19:39
summatusmentis	I see, so not usable, if even runnable	19:39
Navi	It runs, I think	19:40
lardman	does it sit ontop of the initfs? If so it should be usable at least	19:40
Navi	There have been videos	19:40
hrw	summatusmentis: same limits apply like in other distros (use maemo or lack features)	19:40
summatusmentis	are there software repos for maemo?	19:40
lardman	hrw: have you seen the posts about the internals of bme?	19:40
Navi	If wifi and power management were open, we'd be set on a lot of things :(	19:40
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summatusmentis	and presumably neither of those will open up anytime soon	19:41
lardman	is wifi still not a binary blob+wrapper?	19:41
hrw	lardman: no time ;(	19:41
qwerty12	Wimax edition won't help (moar security) . Look in diablo initfs (if you can't be arsed to extract, I've got a tarball)	19:42
hrw	lardman: for 2.6.16-2.6.21 we can make umac.ko ->binary blog	19:42
hrw	lardman: for 2.6.25 it does not work anymore	19:42
Navi	ZOMG VIRUZES	19:42
Blastur	hey! i just got my n810.. man its nice! it even managed to pair with my phone and connect to the internet.. i've been trying to do this myself using a PC for a week now, without any success.. the n810 did it automatically ;-)	19:42
qwerty12	Hehe nice :)	19:42
Blastur	i got some questions though.. can i use the mail client for SSL imap4?	19:43
lardman	hrw: looks dangerous the bme stuff	19:43
konttori	Blastur: yeah, nokia knows connectivity	19:43
lardman	hrw: you going to LinuxTag?	19:44
qwerty12	konttori, the irony if they didn't...	19:44
* konttori will be going to linuxtag as well		19:44
konttori	true	19:44
summatusmentis	integrated GPS? I didn't know that	19:44
summatusmentis	does it need a net connection for the GPS to work? presumably not	19:44
trickie	lardman: my thoughts exactly	19:44
cjohnson	Alright guys, small problem now. When I go to the lock screen (by pressing the power button once) it's not themed	19:45
lardman	konttori: helps to go to present hey ;)	19:45
qwerty12	summatusmentis, Nay. Although GPS perf sucks. Planned A-GPS upgrade will need phone afaik.	19:45
hrw	lardman: plan to	19:45
cjohnson	whereas the rest of the OS is themed	19:45
cjohnson	any clue why that may be?	19:45
lardman	trickie: with a few spare devices I might play; but I wouldn't want to write my one and only off	19:45
summatusmentis	hrw: have you used an n810? how's the keyboard in comparison to a 3x00 series?	19:45
lardman	hrw: cool, will have to buy you a beer or two	19:45
summatusmentis	qwerty12: GPS perf?	19:46
trickie	lardman: yes, i am umming and arrring about fiddling	19:46
GeneralAntilles	qwerty12, word is that you'll be able to supply the "A" part by tapping your location on a world map if you have an internet connection.	19:46
qwerty12	summatusmentis, GPS performance.	19:46
qwerty12	GeneralAntilles, Ahh	19:46
trickie	lardman: id really like to get battery charging working for my 2.6.25-omap+mamona system	19:46
GeneralAntilles	Who knows if that'll hit a release, though.	19:46
summatusmentis	qwerty12: like, unusable sucks? or just not wonderful	19:46
konttori	lardman: what will you present there?	19:46
qwerty12	I need to try and file my first bugzilla or vote for the existing one.	19:46
trickie	lardman: ATM i boot staright to mmc, and then chroot to initfs to start bme	19:47
qwerty12	summatusmentis, takes ages to get lock.	19:47
trickie	lardman: but it doesn't charge the battery	19:47
GeneralAntilles	Depends, summatusmentis, lot of people use it just fine, others have issues getting a lock at all.	19:47
lardman	trickie: good luck! :)	19:47
GeneralAntilles	Startup is the real problem, it's OK once it gets locked.	19:47
qwerty12	I'm a pessimist so I presume most people have lock problems.	19:47
summatusmentis	ok, but generally usable	19:47
trickie	lardman: ta, don't think ill get far without more documentation, my electronics knowledge sux	19:47
hrw	summatusmentis: from Zaurus line I prefer c7x0 keyboard due to longer use of it. n810 keyboard differ a lot from zaurus ones. but is usable	19:48
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trickie	lardman: but im working on a replacement for dsme which is slowly starting to look ok	19:48
qwerty12	summatusmentis, Yes, like General says, Lock sucks but brilliant once locked.	19:48
summatusmentis	hmm	19:48
GeneralAntilles	With GPS, YMMV	19:48
GeneralAntilles	The goodnews is that it's largely a software issue.	19:48
GeneralAntilles	and they're working on it.	19:48
lardman	trickie: what does the replacement need to do?	19:48
hrw	summatusmentis: gps suxx in general. it is not usable for car navigation for sure	19:49
lardman	hrw: is it that bad?	19:49
summatusmentis	interesting. Is the wifi 802.11g? what's the range on that?	19:49
GeneralAntilles	hrw, a lot of people seem to use it for car nav just fine.	19:49
GeneralAntilles	wifi range is about the best I've seen in any mobile device.	19:49
summatusmentis	my wifi cf card for my Zaurus has lots of issues with range	19:49
qwerty12	hrw, is your problem maps?	19:49
hrw	lardman: show me finger usable navigation application for maemo. with offline routing and detour planning	19:49
ricko73	the wifi is better than most of the laptops I've used	19:50
lardman	hrw: I'm planning on fiddling with Navit, not much use for you I know	19:50
trickie	lardman: well just set up some power management prefs, kick the watchdog and hopefully either get bme running	19:50
hrw	summatusmentis: wifi is nice and system has it nice integrated	19:50
trickie	lardman: thats my plan ATM	19:50
lardman	trickie: email me off list	19:50
trickie	sure	19:50
cjohnson	How can I reinstall the OS for my n800? It just keeps rebooting	19:50
qwerty12	Reflash it	19:50
hrw	cjohnson: google: maemo flashing	19:50
hrw	GeneralAntilles: many people use nokia 3210 phones too.	19:50
summatusmentis	hrw: that was part of my issue on the Zaurus, wifi seemed to be an afterthought	19:50
qwerty12	I'm intrested to see how diablo fiasco-flasher will work.	19:51
qwerty12	hrw, I found that out too. Started taking the piss out of him.	19:51
hrw	GeneralAntilles: I had occassion to use tomtom navigator software. maemo mapper of navifinder suxx compared to it. no way to enter street name with finger, no usable prediction during entering name, no detour planning	19:52
GeneralAntilles	Yes, dedicated solutions are generally better than non-dedicated. ;)	19:52
Blastur	hmm.. can i make apps install themself on the internal memory card, rather than on the flash?	19:52
GeneralAntilles	My point was more hardware related, anyway.	19:52
Blastur	im running out of memory on the flash ..	19:52
GeneralAntilles	Maemo Mapper suits all of my in-car GPS needs just fine.	19:53
GeneralAntilles	Blastur, first, klil the 40MB of just in MyDocs	19:53
hrw	GeneralAntilles: I will show you my recent track	19:53
GeneralAntilles	Documentation pdfs, movies, music	19:53
hrw	what is crappy in n810 gps is that you have to leave n810 in car for 10 minutes to get fix	19:53
hrw	then you can drive	19:53
GeneralAntilles	That'll hold you over for a while, but booting from SD may be something you want to think about.	19:53
GeneralAntilles	hrw, like I said, lots of people don't have any issues.	19:54
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hrw	I know	19:54
Blastur	GeneralAntilles, still, i'd like to know if its possible :) is it?	19:54
lardman	where is __BYTE_ORDER defined?	19:54
summatusmentis	hrw: how does th n8x00 series compare in size to a 3x00 series Zaurus?	19:54
GeneralAntilles	Sure, but it's stupidly pointless when you can just boot from the SD.	19:54
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hrw	summatusmentis: much smaller	19:55
hrw	summatusmentis: really pocketable	19:55
cjohnson	I can't shut my n800 off	19:55
summatusmentis	in all dimensions? it looks long	19:55
cjohnson	holding power doesn't do anything	19:55
Blastur	GeneralAntilles: what?	19:55
hrw	summatusmentis: I can keep n810 in back pocket. c7x0 does not fit there.	19:55
cjohnson	sorry, holding the power button restarts it	19:55
cjohnson	doesn't shut it off	19:55
hrw	summatusmentis: n810 is ~1cm longer then c7x0	19:55
qwerty12	cjohnson, /etc/init.d/mce stop & /etc/init.d/mce start and see any errors. Run as root.	19:55
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GeneralAntilles	You could symlink /usr/bin to the card, but that just doubles the opportunities for things to break.	19:55
cjohnson	qwerty12, I can't even boot the OS	19:56
cjohnson	qwerty12, that's why I want to flash it	19:56
summatusmentis	hrw: interesting	19:56
GeneralAntilles	Better to just install the OS on an xGB SD partition and boot from that.	19:56
cjohnson	qwerty12, It shows NOKIA and then the blue loading bar, then just reboots	19:56
qwerty12	cjohnson, unplug battery.	19:56
cjohnson	qwerty12, I know I sound retarded, but I can't really figure out how haha	19:56
qwerty12	Hehe, I needed long nails for my first go.	19:57
qwerty12	When it is about to reboot, shove in a usb cable and hold home.	19:57
summatusmentis	I like the slide out keyboard	19:57
GeneralAntilles	Just tap it on your palm.	19:57
GeneralAntilles	Gently	19:57
GeneralAntilles	on the edge	19:57
GeneralAntilles	It'll pop right out.	19:57
GeneralAntilles	Or follow qwerty12's suggestion.	19:57
cjohnson	that' seems to have done it, with the USB and home	19:58
cjohnson	did that shut it off?	19:58
GeneralAntilles	No	19:58
qwerty12	No, it's in flashing mode.	19:58
hrw	summatusmentis: http://blog.haerwu.biz/tmp/DSC00507.JPG	19:58
qwerty12	Which you want anyway.	19:58
GeneralAntilles	You just caught the it soon enough to enter flashing mode.	19:58
summatusmentis	hrw: that's your c7x0?	19:59
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hrw	summatusmentis: http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/01/11/keyboard-in-palmtops/ is also worth reading	19:59
hrw	summatusmentis: yes	19:59
Blastur	by the way, is it OK to use any mini-USB cable to connect to the n810? or is there something special with the one included?	19:59
hrw	Blastur: I use nokia miniusb cable (but from 770) with many devices and vice versa	20:00
GeneralAntilles	N810 is MicroUSB	20:00
hrw	ah right	20:01
GeneralAntilles	The bigger issue would be finding another device that's micro and comes bundled with a cable. ;)	20:01
GeneralAntilles	It's just standard USB, so any standard cable will work.	20:01
summatusmentis	hrw: thanks, that was helpful. I didn't like the collie keyboard	20:01
cjohnson	I can't seem a tutorial for n800 from windows, only the n770 or in linux	20:01
cjohnson	http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HOWTO_FlashLatestNokiaImageWithWindows/	20:01
cjohnson	that's the 770 only	20:02
hrw	cjohnson: procedure is same	20:02
GeneralAntilles	https://www.nokiausa.com/A4686320	20:02
summatusmentis	and the n810 is the only one w/ the external keyboard, right?	20:02
GeneralAntilles	Internal, you mean. :P	20:02
GeneralAntilles	N810 and the N810 WiMAX Edition if we're being accurate.	20:03
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summatusmentis	erm, yes, with a hardware keyboard is what I meant :)	20:03
summatusmentis	ok, but WiMAX is still an N810	20:03
summatusmentis	also, not available yet?	20:03
GeneralAntilles	A black N810 with a tumor, yes.	20:03
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RST38h	"Intel Denies Atomic iPhone Rumor"	20:04
GeneralAntilles	That'd be a stupid move.	20:04
RST38h	yep	20:04
GeneralAntilles	Where do people pull these rumors from?	20:04
RST38h	But a biger pad based on Atom would not be too bad	20:04
qwerty12	RST38h, any inside info? AFAIR, you work for intel :)	20:04
qwerty12	I won't snitch :p	20:05
summatusmentis	hrw: do you have Neo1973?	20:05
hrw	GeneralAntilles: http://blog.haerwu.biz/tmp/screenshot01.png	20:05
hrw	summatusmentis: 2 of them	20:05
RST38h	qwerty; They did not deny it to me personally, if that is what you mean	20:05
GeneralAntilles	iPhone with 30 minute battery life. <_<	20:05
qwerty12	RST38h, :)	20:05
summatusmentis	hrw: what do you think of the N8x0 series compared to that?	20:05
hrw	summatusmentis: neo1973 suxx in general	20:05
RST38h	They will actually be able to pull an hour or two out of it	20:05
RST38h	Not more though	20:05
summatusmentis	hrw: well, yes. I guess what I'm asking is would a FreeRunner(with bad GSM coverage) be more worth it?	20:06
* qwerty12 wants to see appleenvy for OS2008 :(		20:06
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hrw	summatusmentis: I prefer n810 over gta01/gta02	20:06
RST38h	what happened on April 26?	20:06
hrw	summatusmentis: better formfactor	20:06
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summatusmentis	hrw: you tether to your phone?	20:07
GeneralAntilles	tethering is dead easy.	20:08
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summatusmentis	GeneralAntilles: that's what I've heard. I don't have a data plan on my phone right now, but I'm considering options for the future	20:09
hrw	summatusmentis: gta01/02 case is a brick	20:09
hrw	big, thick brick	20:09
summatusmentis	hrw: It doesn't look that much bigger than a... palm centro	20:09
hrw	summatusmentis: my current phone is ~half of gta0[1-2] size	20:09
summatusmentis	maybe a bit longer	20:09
hrw	summatusmentis: I would rather spend cash on htc diamond then openmoko freerunner	20:10
summatusmentis	hrw: but... windows mobile </disgust>	20:10
MangoFusion	n95 for me!	20:10
RST38h	hrw: Be careful what you wish for	20:10
hrw	summatusmentis: so what. it works	20:10
RST38h	diamond runs winmobile	20:10
hrw	summatusmentis: with openmoko you do not know which toolkit they prefer in this week	20:10
summatusmentis	hrw: you seem bitter from your time in the OE world :)	20:11
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hrw	summatusmentis: take gta01 into hand and then rethink	20:11
summatusmentis	hrw: I only know people w/ gta01 on the internet	20:12
qwerty12	gta1 is old. it's all about gta iv now,	20:12
hrw	summatusmentis: time to go to some conference then	20:12
* GeneralAntilles guns down qwerty12.		20:12
* qwerty12 gets rocket launcher and targets GeneralAntilles		20:12
summatusmentis	hrw: well, if there were conferences in the US that weren't in california, I'd consider it :)	20:13
* qwerty12 does evil laugh and gets 3 stars and runs from police		20:13
lopz	re	20:13
summatusmentis	qwerty12: for a minute there, I thought you were talking about GTA04	20:13
* GeneralAntilles respawns and runs qwerty12 down doing 180 in a Ron Fellows "Coquette".		20:13
summatusmentis	the generation of OpenMoko after FreeRunner :)	20:13
GeneralAntilles	That one made me laugh.	20:13
qwerty12	lol	20:14
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Grackle	GTA4 is a lovely game. put a few hours in on his friend's 46" HDTV	20:14
summatusmentis	hrw: so, if I understand correctly, your choice would go c7x0 > C3x00 > N8x0 > htc diamond > freerunner	20:15
* qwerty12 kills hospital ppl for taking my weapon and gets PCJ and does a drive by on GeneralAntilles		20:15
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Grackle	Alas, I am no longer at college. Sadface.	20:15
qwerty12	summatusmentis, I was :)	20:15
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summatusmentis	qwerty12: lol	20:15
GeneralAntilles	I play on a 17" trinitron from 2001.	20:15
GeneralAntilles	Much sharper than any HDTV. :D	20:15
hrw	summatusmentis: no	20:16
hrw	summatusmentis: c7x0 -> n810 for palmtop line. ericsson a2618s -> alcatel 501 -> nokia 6310i -> sonyericsson k750i -> some usable smartphone (so no openmoko)	20:17
hrw	for phone line	20:17
summatusmentis	hrw: I see, so 3x00 doesn't even qualify for you	20:17
molkko	how to troubleshoot: flasher-3.0 says "suitable USB device not found, waiting". n810 connected and I think everything is in order	20:17
hrw	summatusmentis: I had c3000 for few months. too thick	20:18
GeneralAntilles	Did you start the N810 correctly?	20:18
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GeneralAntilles	Turn it off (make sure charger is unplugged)	20:18
GeneralAntilles	start up holding down the Home/Swap key.	20:18
summatusmentis	hrw: that's definitely part of the reason I'm considering switching to a N810	20:18
molkko	GeneralAntilles, oh. sorry. of course. i did not read the instruction completely. case closed	20:19
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* qwerty12 has got pulseaudio half compiled. I'm gonna crap myself trying to install it on my tablet though :/		20:33
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summatusmentis	is there a wiki or something somewhere of stuff that people have done w/ their tablets?	20:39
GeneralAntilles	http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Personal_Accounts	20:40
Grackle	http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/	20:40
Grackle	Oh, specific stuff.	20:41
Grackle	Well, the itt wiki does have a lot of pages on random things that people are working on. http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debian for instance	20:41
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mrlanrat	Is there any way to help OS 2008 get a DHCP IP address?	20:50
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mrlanrat	My N810 latly has had great dificulty getting an IP from my schools DHCP server.	20:52
Grackle	That's strange. Do you have a laptop to test the network with? It may not be your N810's fault.	20:54
Grackle	In fact, I would be kind of surprised if it was.	20:54
mrlanrat	I think it is	20:54
Grackle	Why's that?	20:54
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mrlanrat	sevral freinds with ipod toutches can connect no problem. same with my laptop when iIdo bring it.	20:55
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mrlanrat	this used to only happen every now and then, not it has happend for the last sevral days.	20:55
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mrlanrat	it used to be fixed by rebooting, but not anymore...	20:56
Grackle	Any chance someone might steal your MAC address?	20:56
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cjohnson	Does maemo use like gnome or something?	20:57
mrlanrat	no, i have also tried changing my mac, no luck.	20:57
cjohnson	or is it a custom one	20:57
mrlanrat	@cjohnson custom	20:57
hrw	bye guys	20:57
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cjohnson	thanks	20:57
mrlanrat	its called hildon	20:57
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Grackle	gnome apps can compile and run just fine, and minor tweaks will provide hildon integration	20:59
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mrlanrat	so any ideas on my DHCP problem?	20:59
Grackle	http://umeguide.net/C/ch08s05.html	20:59
Grackle	I'm at a loss, mrlanrat. I don't know what the problem is.	20:59
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mrlanrat	is there a way I can connect to the wifi via xterm so i can see ant error messseges?	21:00
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Grackle	I believe iwconfig works	21:00
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n800n	i believe birds suddenly appear	21:01
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Grackle	hehe	21:01
Grackle	I don't know what dhcp client it uses, you can try dhclient or dhcpcd	21:02
Grackle	You might have to stop wlancond before doing that	21:02
mrlanrat	so how would i use iwconfig to connect to the wifi?	21:02
Grackle	I'm not sure, but I think it may interfer	21:03
GeneralAntilles	cjohnson, it's more or less GNOME	21:03
Grackle	iwconfig wlan0 essid	21:03
Grackle	mrlanrat: Does it use encryption?	21:03
Grackle	http://linux.die.net/man/8/iwconfig	21:03
cjohnson	What do you guys think of those stick-on plastic covers for protecting my screen? Does it interfere with the input too much? Does it leave a residue?	21:03
mrlanrat	yes	21:03
Grackle	What type?	21:04
mrlanrat	wpa -enterprize	21:04
GeneralAntilles	Depends on which one you buy.	21:04
Grackle	Crap. I'm not familiar with using wpa from the command line, sorry.	21:04
GeneralAntilles	Personally, I HIGHLY recommend the Boxwave anti-glare.	21:04
mrlanrat	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19809	21:04
mrlanrat	thats the encription info	21:04
cjohnson	GeneralAntilles, I have these ones I use for my iPod and Camera, they're alright, from walmart	21:04
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Grackle	The one I got for my PSP was very stiff and would probably hinder stylus input. I would avoid getting one like that.	21:05
cjohnson	The ones I have aren't stiff, they're probably as stiff as 2 sheets of paper would be	21:06
cjohnson	They do a good job protecting, I just don't know about stylus input	21:06
Grackle	Mine was like half a credit card	21:06
cjohnson	Meh, it's 10 for $10, so I could just try	21:06
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Grackle	I think you'll be fine	21:07
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cjohnson	cool	21:07
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GeneralAntilles	Seriously though, Boxwave anti-glare is the way to go.	21:07
GeneralAntilles	Great texture, great protection	21:07
GeneralAntilles	anti-glare really improves visibility in a lot of lighting conditions.	21:07
GeneralAntilles	Last forever	21:07
Grackle	GeneralAntilles: I think I'll get one/a pack of those, they sound very nice.	21:07
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GeneralAntilles	I've got an application guide somewhere on ITT	21:08
GeneralAntilles	For after you get one. ;)	21:08
Grackle	Oh, it's an involved procedure?	21:08
GeneralAntilles	Eh	21:08
GeneralAntilles	Not really	21:08
GeneralAntilles	Just dust is hard to keep out.	21:08
GeneralAntilles	So you usually have to apply it more than once.	21:09
Grackle	ah	21:09
GeneralAntilles	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=117031&postcount=18	21:09
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Grackle	Is the boxwave screen protector made for the n800, or does it have to be cut?	21:10
GeneralAntilles	It's made for it	21:10
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Grackle	ah	21:11
GeneralAntilles	Well, assuming you order the N800 version. ;)	21:11
Grackle	haha, right	21:11
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Blastur	hmm	21:12
* Grackle bookmarks for later		21:13
Blastur	do you guys have weird problems with the n810 that its wifi connection stops working after a while?	21:13
mrlanrat	YES!	21:13
mrlanrat	My N810 can rarly get a DHCP IP from my school's wifi	21:14
mrlanrat	but it works fine everywhere else.	21:14
Grackle	Hey man, I have an initfs from 1969. Far out.	21:16
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lardman	Blastur: as in it goes to sleep?	21:18
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Blastur	lardman, well, it says its connected, but i cant browse the net	21:21
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Blastur	sometimes it helps if i disconnect from the wifi and reconnect to it	21:21
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lardman	Blastur: no idea then, sorry	21:25
Blastur	someting is seriously wrong with my wifi.. i get like HUGE latency even when the n810 is next to the AP	21:25
Blastur	i think its something with my router	21:25
beford	hey, what fs would you guys recommend for a /boot partition? (on my desktop heh)	21:26
penguinbait	what type of wifi AP do you have?	21:26
Blastur	its a La Fonera	21:26
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penguinbait	is that a brand?	21:27
Blastur	yeah	21:27
penguinbait	is it 802.11 b or g or n or everything?	21:27
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penguinbait	I had problems with my old linksys, it was only 802.11b, always disconnected	21:28
penguinbait	I have a b/g now and it works perfectly	21:28
jku_	Blastur, there's a bug with Fonera + tablet combination, see maemo bugzilla	21:28
jku_	apparently foneras don't like the aggressive power saving...	21:28
Blastur	https://shop.fon.com/FonShop/shop/SE/ShopController?view=product&product=PRD-001	21:28
Blastur	thats the one i use	21:28
penguinbait	maybe a firmware update?	21:28
unixSnob	Flash is such a failure.. Flash clients one version back can't show current flash content, and new flash players can't handle content from one version back. I can't believe DHTML isn't more popular	21:29
jku_	at least they didn't, could have had firmware upgrades	21:29
penguinbait	on the AP	21:29
Blastur	oh ok. jku_, good to know. I just wanted to rule out the n810.. i think i have an old NetGear AP here somewhere, gonna try that instead	21:29
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Blastur	oh, dang. I was just annoyed that there was no physical button to switch between windows.. now i just noticed the one sitting next to the screen	21:31
Blastur	=)	21:32
Blastur	i was like "what are they thinking? they put a button to maximize/minimize, but not switch windows?!"	21:32
Grackle	:P	21:33
Grackle	I wish the top buttons on the N800 were larger	21:33
penguinbait	I wish I could control it with my mind	21:33
KotCzarny	cut your fingers to fit	21:33
Grackle	or more separated or something	21:33
penguinbait	as long as we are wishing :)	21:33
Grackle	haha KotCzarny	21:33
Grackle	Yes, that would be pretty cool (mind control, not finger whittling)	21:34
Blastur	btw, did you guys try out the SDL Quake thingie? I played for a while, then I realized i had NO way to turn it off ;) Didn't find the "Escape" button, so i had to power it down completely to exit	21:34
Grackle	I played it	21:34
Grackle	I don't plan on playing quake on my IT much, but it was neat to try out	21:34
Blastur	amazing stuff for a small device like this	21:34
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KotCzarny	escape button is the one directly belowe dpad	21:34
Blastur	i tried all buttons :) the one below dpad only switched between different keyconfiguration modes in-game	21:34
penguinbait	I was playing q2 multiplayer with my cordless logitech controller	21:34
Blastur	like ZoomMode, BioMode, whatever	21:34
penguinbait	well sort of cordless	21:35
penguinbait	we need CTF DDAY mods	21:35
Navi	Hi penguinbait	21:35
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Grackle	I might play if I had a proper controller.	21:36
penguinbait	Hi Navi, is that like the little fairy that helps Link?	21:36
Navi	Yes	21:36
penguinbait	nice	21:36
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penguinbait	usb controllers work great	21:37
Navi	My usb controllers are too big to carry around	21:39
Navi	I usually have the wiimote with me though	21:39
n800n	does the quiver dev come here?	21:39
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penguinbait	anyone tried my boot from SD deb yet?	21:41
RST38h	how much is wii controller right now, btw?	21:41
RST38h	I mean, in the States?	21:41
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Navi	US$40	21:41
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penguinbait	best buy is 39.99	21:42
RST38h	aha	21:42
RST38h	looks like a shadier store will sell it for $25	21:42
Navi	Lol	21:42
penguinbait	20$ more for nunchuck	21:42
RST38h	and it is fully functional with N810? =)~	21:43
keesj	anybody with a "lasted" os2008 image running ?	21:43
KotCzarny	lasted?	21:43
Navi	"lasted"?	21:43
penguinbait	lasted?	21:43
n800n	lasted.	21:43
penguinbait	hehe	21:43
RST38h	Oh, fuck the nunchuck - it's not like I am eager to break a window or something	21:43
KotCzarny	rst: then you will :>	21:43
penguinbait	RST38H but the IR is not working, only the buttos and dpad	21:44
KotCzarny	it's always accidental ;)	21:44
keesj	does the language selection work for you http://maemo.mmapps.net/n810_survey/	21:44
Blastur	btw guys.. when you do typing on the n810, it sometimes makes a proposition for a few words.. how can i select one of those, without using the stylus? cant find the key to select em'	21:44
penguinbait	finger	21:44
penguinbait	after you put done the greasy pizza	21:44
Blastur	;)	21:45
penguinbait	down that is	21:45
Blastur	down?	21:45
penguinbait	after you put "down" the greasy pizza	21:45
Blastur	oh, right	21:45
penguinbait	not "done"	21:45
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penguinbait	sorry	21:45
Blastur	it's ok, you're only human	21:45
penguinbait	or am I	21:46
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Blastur	uh oh	21:47
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RST38h	penguin: Oh :( I guess, this one would be a better fit then: http://sewelldirect.com/bluetooth-gamepad-adapter-for-smart-phones-and-pdas.asp?source=froogle&utm_source=Froogle&utm_medium=cse	21:52
RST38h	Or get sixaxis work with n810 ;)	21:54
KotCzarny	sewell looks like lisped sewer	21:56
KotCzarny	:)	21:56
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pyhimys	I misread the 'sewer' for server and started to think about ecommerce site made in lisp	21:57
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RST38h	it is probably just a nameless bunch of chinese	21:58
pyhimys	(Would it be threadsafe etc )	21:58
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KotCzarny	heh	21:58
KotCzarny	:)	21:58
KotCzarny	imagine managing ecommerce in lisp	21:59
pyhimys	My brain hurts	21:59
RST38h	they manage it in java, why not lisp?	21:59
KotCzarny	java is piece of cake	21:59
penguinbait	I already have that BT gamepad	21:59
penguinbait	bg100, it sux	22:00
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penguinbait	you need to hack kbbd to make it work	22:00
penguinbait	I used to use it with my 770 and 800 to play mame	22:00
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Navi	Anyone know what the home key is bound to in Debian?	22:02
KotCzarny	run xev	22:03
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Navi	Too lazy	22:03
* KotCzarny lazy too		22:03
Navi	F5	22:04
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n800n	do you guys know anyone at all who's coding for some kind of sound app for maemo?	22:04
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Navi	Sound app?	22:04
n800n	music software	22:05
Navi	oh	22:05
KotCzarny	canola guys	22:05
KotCzarny	;)	22:05
n800n	there;s the midi thing, but other than that i couldn't find anything at all	22:05
n800n	not just playback, you know what i mean	22:05
KotCzarny	sequencer?	22:05
Grackle	tinytracker and PDa are the only ones I Know of	22:06
n800n	yeah and things like that	22:06
n800n	there's PDa and the midi thingy	22:06
Grackle	er	22:06
Grackle	whatever that sequencer was called	22:06
Grackle	tinytracker seems to be a tracker for aprs :P	22:06
zap	Some say, ITOS 2008 supports SMB shares, is that true?	22:06
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n800n	seems like such a missed opportunity to me (but i'm biased)	22:07
n800n	the one thing i haven't tried is use emulators to host sound apps	22:08
n800n	but it seems iffy	22:08
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KotCzarny	as long it works	22:08
KotCzarny	hehe	22:08
n800n	yeah i should try those out	22:09
Grackle	There has never really been a whole lot of good music software for linux anyway.	22:09
n800n	but i'm sure the screen will be forced into so half ass resolution	22:09
penguinbait	as lo ng as it w ooooor ks	22:09
n800n	some*	22:09
penguinbait	without killing the CPU :)	22:09
KotCzarny	:)	22:09
KotCzarny	n800n: name a good seq for linux?	22:10
KotCzarny	then port (compile) it for n800 (or find someone to do it)	22:10
n800n	"decent" would be enough	22:10
n800n	i noticed in xmmms a ALSA output module	22:11
KotCzarny	alsa is a cheat	22:12
n800n	<KotCzarny> as long it works	22:12
KotCzarny	seq won't work	22:12
KotCzarny	ie. midi	22:12
KotCzarny	you have to install timidity server	22:12
zap	rosegarden for midi sequencer	22:12
zap	and lmms for tracker-style	22:12
zap	but they are very heavy apps	22:13
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zap	hydrogen is a neat drum machine, but it's Qt	22:13
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n800n	there's aldrin	22:14
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n800n	that would be my frist pick probably	22:14
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n800n	http://trac.zeitherrschaft.org/aldrin	22:16
zap	W: GPG error: http://maemo-hackers.org chinook Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 5FD45CD3EA68E29D	22:16
zap	Anybody know how to fix this?	22:16
penguinbait	dont	22:16
zap	?	22:17
zap	http://maemo-hackers.org is a bad repo?	22:17
penguinbait	you dont need to fix it, its works fine	22:17
penguinbait	doesn't it?	22:17
zap	dunno really	22:17
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zap	how to check?	22:17
zap	I'm not common with dpkg yet	22:17
penguinbait	several of mine complain on the command line about GPG, but they work	22:17
zap	ah ok	22:18
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penguinbait	I am not a deb genius either	22:18
RST38h	penguin: So, that weird gamepad acts as a kbd?	22:18
penguinbait	I come from the land of RPM and BFF	22:18
penguinbait	RST yes, and its not great for lots of input	22:19
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qwerty12_N800	Oh yeah, if you have ssh, telnet isn't needed? :)	22:19
zap	I'm a long-time Fedora user as well	22:20
penguinbait	telnet is very usefull even with ssh	22:20
penguinbait	how do you ssh to a mail server at port 25?	22:21
n800n	hm i know the aldrin dev! maybe he'll do it.	22:21
penguinbait	RST http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2666&highlight=bgp100	22:21
zap	The default media player uses gstreamer?	22:21
qwerty12_N800	yes	22:22
penguinbait	not sure if there is even a driver that works anymore?	22:22
zap	how to make it play MPEG4 files?	22:22
zap	I see gstreamer-ffmpeg is installed, but it says unsupported format	22:22
qwerty12_N800	compile newer version of the gst-plugins?	22:22
RST38h	penguin: aha. thanks!	22:23
zap	why I would want a newer version when gstreamer supported MPEG4 even at version 0.8?	22:24
zap	besides, ffmpeg supports MPEG4 from the very beginning, so I would suppose gstreamer-ffmpeg does it too	22:24
qwerty12_N800	It doesn't seem to be working for you now.	22:24
* RST38h whispers "sixaxis! sixaxis!"		22:24
penguinbait	qwerty, did you figure out your mount issue with KDE	22:25
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qwerty12_N800	penguinbait, no. I had to remove for diablo upgrade, I'm gonna reinstall soon :)	22:25
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penguinbait	you should use the new debs	22:26
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penguinbait	boot from SD installer, and KDE boot from SD KDE installer	22:26
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qwerty12_N800	I don't really like booting maemo off mmc (ironic & stupid due to my flashing number...)	22:26
penguinbait	in that setup qwerty, the easiest way is to boot without the card in, that way nothing is using it	22:27
keesj	nobody loves me	22:27
qwerty12_N800	penguinbait, yeah :)	22:28
penguinbait	are you sure	22:28
qwerty12_N800	keesj, eaten worms yet? :p	22:28
keesj	They dind't like me either	22:28
penguinbait	qwerty, I looked in your post, it sounds like you missed the swap file	22:29
KotCzarny	new meaning of 'they like you for your brains' ?	22:29
penguinbait	swapoff /media/mmcX/swap.img	22:29
qwerty12_N800	Don't worry, #maemo likes everyone. Except unless you aare slobby_d...	22:29
qwerty12_N800	penguinbait, thanks! :)	22:29
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karbas	hmm.. does anyone have irssi for os2008.. i don't have scratchbox at the moment but i need irssi:/	22:29
qwerty12_N800	karbas, I have svn build at itt	22:30
karbas	itt?	22:30
qwerty12_N800	and bitchx and weechat...	22:30
penguinbait	internettablettalk	22:30
qwerty12_N800	internettablettalk	22:30
penguinbait	Itt	22:30
karbas	well.. i need irssi	22:30
karbas	qwerty12_N800, url?	22:30
karbas	irssi-text i mean :)	22:30
qwerty12_N800	sorry, I hate searching with virtual kbd	22:30
qwerty12_N800	this uses ncurses	22:31
penguinbait	curses!	22:31
penguinbait	I mean ncurses!	22:31
karbas	yeah	22:31
summatusmentis	so... are there things people don't like about their N8x0 series?	22:33
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qwerty12_N800	I think internettablettalk should be internetcomputertablettalk because then i can say ictt	22:33
qwerty12_N800	w/out getting slapped	22:33
karbas	qwerty12_N800, search at itt didn't help:(	22:34
qwerty12_N800	give me a min.	22:34
penguinbait	ictt, cmon	22:34
cjohnson	Where can I get the gainroot command from again?	22:34
qwerty12_N800	www.nitapps.com	22:35
penguinbait	you can install becomeroot, and then you "sudo gainroot" in xterm	22:35
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karbas	qwerty12_N800, found it.. from the forums	22:35
* qwerty12_N800 prefers easyroot to becomeroot		22:35
qwerty12_N800	ah kl	22:36
cjohnson	what's the difference between easyroot and becomeroot	22:36
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qwerty12_N800	has "root" command which sets proper environment	22:37
KotCzarny	http://www.woostercollective.com/snork.jpg	22:37
KotCzarny	:>	22:37
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KotCzarny	ssh root@0 sets proper env too	22:37
KotCzarny	:)	22:37
penguinbait	dont know, I never used easyroot	22:37
qwerty12_N800	ssh is long for local connection :/	22:37
KotCzarny	is it?	22:38
penguinbait	Boot from SD installer DEB will give you root also	22:38
KotCzarny	:)	22:38
penguinbait	hehe	22:38
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cjohnson	What do you mean by proper environment	22:39
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KotCzarny	home dir, for example	22:39
penguinbait	it gives you root	22:39
qwerty12_N800	whoami actually returns root	22:40
cjohnson	oh I don't want that actually	22:40
KotCzarny	you do.	22:40
cjohnson	I want elevated commands but for things to be done to user, not root	22:40
KotCzarny	otherwise you may end up with files in /home/user owend by root	22:40
KotCzarny	ie. unmodifiable by your regular user	22:40
cjohnson	but if i become root they're somehow created owned by user?	22:40
cjohnson	how does that make sense?	22:40
cjohnson	anyway, I can just SSH as root without even installing that, so there'd be no point in it	22:41
penguinbait	these things are like swiss cheese, does it really matter?	22:41
KotCzarny	if you login as root your home dir becomes /root	22:41
KotCzarny	it matters if you don't want to reflash/debug too often	22:41
KotCzarny	:)	22:41
KotCzarny	because 'something doesn't work anymore'	22:41
KotCzarny	:)	22:41
cjohnson	right, so when I want add in new applications or whatever it may be, then it applies settings to /root and not to /home/user, which would mean that the user that I'd actually be using wouldn't have those files at all	22:42
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KotCzarny	no	22:42
KotCzarny	apt-get doesn't modify your home dir usually	22:42
cjohnson	usually	22:42
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cjohnson	kinda off topic, but is it possible to re-run that beginning configuration thing? I want to know what kinds of configurations it was doing for me, and I accidentally cancelled it	22:43
KotCzarny	ok, if you only want to run apt-* then it doesn't matter what env you have	22:43
penguinbait	I suspect qwerty has seen less tt and more cjohnson	22:43
KotCzarny	cjohnson: you can unpack .deb with: ar x	22:43
penguinbait	sorry, I just coudn't resist :)	22:43
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cjohnson	penguinbait, I didn't get it :S :P	22:44
penguinbait	dpkg -x also unpacks debs	22:44
qwerty12_N800	penguinbait, lol :p	22:44
penguinbait	it was not meant for you cj	22:44
qwerty12_N800	carl johnson is a gangsta	22:44
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lardman	I don't suppose we have any SBC experts about tonight>	22:46
lardman	?	22:46
qwerty12_N800	preinst scripts get saved in /var/lib/dpkg/info	22:46
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cjohnson	I want to install acmonitor, but it requires libdbus-1-2. apt-get install libdbus-1-2 results in Package libdbus-1-2 is not available, but is referred to by another package.	22:56
cjohnson	This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or	22:56
cjohnson	is only available from another source	22:56
cjohnson	any ideas?	22:56
qwerty12_N800	cjohnson, grab my recompile from ictt	22:56
qwerty12_N800	s/ictt/itt	22:56
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cjohnson	where is it?	23:00
qwerty12_N800	can't remember, just search acmonitor or derf	23:00
Navi	qwerty12_N800, mess with debian much?	23:00
cjohnson	is it on the forums?	23:00
qwerty12_N800	Navi, not atm. I need to get a keyboard :/	23:00
qwerty12_N800	cjohnson, yes	23:01
penguinbait	there you go again	23:01
Navi	qwerty12_N800, you don't need a keyboard :P	23:01
qwerty12_N800	Navi, I find it hard to use :/	23:01
* qwerty12_N800 blushes		23:01
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Navi	qwerty12_N800, http://www.xenf.net/n800stuff/matchbox-keyboard1.png	23:03
Navi	\o/	23:03
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Navi	the xml config for it is in the same directory	23:03
Navi	or you could always install synergy or ssh or vnc or rdesktop	23:04
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penguinbait	(.)(.)	23:04
Navi	lolbewbs	23:04
cjohnson	I can never remember the commands, what it is it for gzunzip?	23:04
qwerty12_N800	Navi, will do lol	23:04
Navi	gunzip	23:04
penguinbait	gunzip	23:04
penguinbait	hehe	23:04
cjohnson	ah	23:05
Navi	I remember it 'cuz you want to shoot the zip with a gun	23:05
cjohnson	is that maemo only? or standard?	23:05
KotCzarny	gun-zip ?	23:05
Navi	standard ap	23:05
Navi	app	23:05
penguinbait	gzip -d works also	23:05
cjohnson	oh no not that	23:05
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cjohnson	isn't there a way to extract directly from the tar?	23:05
KotCzarny	tar -xzf	23:06
Navi	tar -xvzf file.tar.gz	23:06
penguinbait	tar zxvf app.tar.gz	23:06
cjohnson	that's it	23:06
cjohnson	zxvf	23:06
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cjohnson	i have a script at home so i don't' have to remember	23:06
cjohnson	gzunzip	23:06
Navi	:P	23:06
cjohnson	and bz2unzip as well	23:06
penguinbait	z zip x xtract v verify f file	23:06
KotCzarny	v is verbose	23:06
penguinbait	z zip x xtract v verbose f file	23:06
KotCzarny	not verify	23:06
KotCzarny	:)	23:06
penguinbait	I got ahead of myself	23:07
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penguinbait	it must have been the (.)(.)	23:07
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penguinbait	they always distract me	23:07
qwerty12_N800	( . )( . )	23:07
cjohnson	ahh	23:08
qwerty12_N800	wayhey	23:08
cjohnson	oh crap	23:08
KotCzarny	qwerty: that's too much	23:08
penguinbait	always one up-ing me	23:08
cjohnson	I'm on windows SSH'ing into the n800	23:08
Navi	lolhugebewbz	23:09
cjohnson	the n800 doesn't have a C compiler	23:09
qwerty12_N800	penguinbait, nothing personal :p	23:09
penguinbait	its all good	23:09
Navi	gah	23:09
qwerty12_N800	KotCzarny, NEVA I WANT MOAR	23:09
Navi	I can't get anything to run in openbox	23:09
chx	hey. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/mysqldatabase/ is this the daemon? not just the client?	23:09
cjohnson	qwerty12_N800, do you have a suggestion for compiling it? or could i possibly beg a favor of you to compile it and send me the deb?	23:10
KotCzarny	chx: os2007 ?	23:10
cjohnson	os2008	23:10
cjohnson	oh haha not me nvm	23:10
qwerty12_N800	cjohnson, acmonitor?	23:10
cjohnson	qwerty12_N800, yeah	23:10
chx	KotCzarny: whatever google finds.	23:11
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chx	KotCzarny: I have trying to convince myself to buy a Maemo device since the 770 but so far could not.	23:11
chx	KotCzarny: then http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/mysqldatabase/ the question is the same.	23:12
penguinbait	I bought 770, 800 and 810	23:12
penguinbait	cmon already	23:12
* KotCzarny has only n800		23:12
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chx	I am not buying anythign that does not have a LAMP stack	23:12
KotCzarny	chx: there is always sqlite	23:12
KotCzarny	:)	23:12
penguinbait	I have 800 and 810 , my 770 went to Nokia repair facility, never to be seen again	23:13
chx	not good for me.	23:13
Knirch	penguinbait: and the wimax model is on order?	23:13
KotCzarny	chx: just get that package and unpack it	23:13
KotCzarny	:)	23:13
chx	I do not have a Maemo device	23:13
KotCzarny	and you will see	23:13
penguinbait	NOPE, I want n900	23:13
KotCzarny	it's a standard .deb	23:13
chx	I am checking whether I want to buy one	23:13
chx	then give me a .deb link	23:13
KotCzarny	doh.	23:13
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chx	repo_deb_3 = deb http://www.web-brewer.co.uk/maemo binary/	23:13
chx	i can't decipher the deb from this.	23:13
qwerty12_N800	cjohnson, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=171640&postcount=3	23:13
chx	you know guys this is somewhat ridiculous	23:14
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chx	http://wiki.opensource.nokia.com/projects/PAMP we have a full AMP stack for phones	23:14
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chx	and then for a Linux device	23:15
chx	we don't?	23:15
KotCzarny	'we' ?	23:15
KotCzarny	:)	23:15
KotCzarny	http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/m/mysql-dfsg/	23:16
chx	mysql 4.0 that's ancient	23:16
chx	the link above at least has 4.1	23:16
KotCzarny	then just compile one yourself	23:16
KotCzarny	or decipher the repo dir	23:16
KotCzarny	:)	23:17
KotCzarny	people run 3.x too	23:17
KotCzarny	heheh	23:17
penguinbait	chx, why are you trying to find software to run on something you dont have?	23:17
chx	penguinbait: it's not hard to cross that chasm	23:17
chx	penguinbait: the only question is, do I want to shell out that much money?	23:17
KotCzarny	how much?	23:17
KotCzarny	150$ ?	23:17
KotCzarny	:)	23:17
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chx	the N810 is not $150 and I need a keyboard.	23:18
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KotCzarny	ah, talking about needs	23:18
KotCzarny	:)	23:18
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chx	yes I came here for help	23:18
chx	and getting smileys and no help	23:18
chx	great.	23:18
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penguinbait	what help do you want	23:18
Navi	chx, that's our friend the smiley spammer	23:18
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chx	is there a functioanl LAMP stack or not :) ?	23:18
cjohnson	just got back, thanks a ton qwerty12_N800	23:19
qwerty12_N800	no problem :)	23:19
chx	seems to me I need to wait for these Atom powered MIDs	23:20
Navi	chx, if you want my answer, it would be I don't know. I do know you could compile it yourself, though.	23:20
KotCzarny	:)	23:21
chx	this is http://www.umpcportal.com/products/product.php?id=170 what the N810 should be.	23:22
penguinbait	I know there was apache, not sure if its still around, but it was very trimmed down	23:22
summatusmentis	I'm worried that the N8x0 tablets don't have the software repos that the Zaurus line do. Is there someplace I can search through software repos?	23:22
Navi	summatusmentis, http://www.gronmayer.com/it/	23:22
Navi	don't know if it's up, though	23:22
Navi	It's been down for the last few days	23:23
penguinbait	was down yesterday	23:23
KotCzarny	no price	23:23
KotCzarny	:)	23:23
summatusmentis	Fatal error: Call to undefined function: curl_init() in /var/www/gronmayer.com/htdocs/it/_init/functions.inc.php on line 227 :)	23:23
chx	http://www.umpcportal.com/2008/05/m528-pricing-drops-into-the-safety-zone-expect-750-in-the-us/	23:23
KotCzarny	420$	23:24
KotCzarny	preorder	23:24
KotCzarny	hehe	23:24
Navi	chx, I don't agree that the Gigabyte MID is what the N810 "should" be, but this is just one man's opinion.	23:24
chx	at least I have no doubt what software is available and what's compilable	23:24
chx	I am running x86 linux longer than i am comfortable to remember :)	23:24
KotCzarny	nice that it has 512mb or mem	23:25
KotCzarny	though	23:25
KotCzarny	:)	23:25
penguinbait	chx, its all available, if you make it available	23:25
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chx	i guess there is a cross compiler environment available?	23:25
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chx	maybe an emulator?	23:25
Navi	chx, yes	23:25
chx	so that i can test?	23:25
KotCzarny	there is native gcc	23:25
KotCzarny	too	23:25
KotCzarny	chx: search for maemo sdk	23:26
penguinbait	If I can get KDE and CUPS working, you should be able to make a LAMP stack	23:26
KotCzarny	there is installation kit and vmware image too	23:26
ReKlipz	Hey everyone, I'm working on a project that will be based on the Nokia n810. I'm currently running Debian Lenny amd64, and am wondering how I can get the maemo 4 sdk up and running.	23:26
chx	i was waiting for long for the freedom slim keyboard to get out from vaporware state. would be nice the N800 and that.	23:26
penguinbait	skip the vmware mess, just my personal opinion	23:26
Navi	chx, http://maemo.org/development/sdks/	23:26
chx	penguinbait: HAHA you compiled KDE on _that_ ?	23:26
Navi	You could always use a cheap USB keyboard.	23:26
penguinbait	I love my 810 keyboard	23:27
Navi	and he compiled _for_ the N8X0	23:27
chx	Navi: show me a N800-sized keyboad.	23:27
ReKlipz	penguinbait: was taht directed towards me?	23:27
penguinbait	original version ran on 770	23:27
cjohnson	qwerty12_N800, What settings does this monitor beside brightness?	23:27
cjohnson	qwerty12_N800, any?	23:27
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Navi	not on it. Would be ages before the N8X0 finishes compiling KDE	23:27
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qwerty12_N800	cjohnson, display and backlight timeouts	23:27
chx	penguinbait: and the running speed...? you click button, make coffee , drink it, come back, system reacts?	23:27
penguinbait	NO, I compiled in scratchbox, not on device	23:27
qwerty12_N800	i need to add lcuk's cpufreq mod into acmonitor soon	23:28
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chx	I ran KDE on my Celeron 400 192M old laptop . Was fun.	23:28
ReKlipz	anyone willing to help me get maemo 4 setup on amd64, or is it even possible?	23:28
chx	running it on Tank is much more fun, though.	23:28
chx	speaking of that	23:29
chx	how ... sturdy is the N8x0 ?	23:29
Navi	I'm running openbox on debian at the moment. Now there's something that's fun.	23:29
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penguinbait	http://penguinbait.com/kdes.png	23:29
Navi	chx, people drop it all the time. It scratches easily but I haven't heard of anyone breaking it	23:29
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penguinbait	I have a n800 with broken stand and back cover latch	23:30
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Navi	penguinbait, ha	23:30
penguinbait	dropped it many times, still works great	23:30
chx	Navi: pretty good. i would not expect to take the beating my laptop can take (why do you think I call it Tank :) it's a panasonic toughbook) but it's good news.	23:30
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Navi	I drop it all the time onto tile flooring from the counter	23:30
KotCzarny	brute	23:30
Navi	I freak out every time I do, but it's fine	23:30
chx	i guess lack of moving parts make it less likely to break it	23:31
chx	what about the screen?	23:31
chx	what protects the screen when you drop it?	23:31
ReKlipz	would anyone mind helping me setup maemo4 sdk?	23:31
Navi	chx, it's beveled inwards a little	23:31
penguinbait	I have a scratch in my 800, I always now use my cover on my 810	23:31
penguinbait	keys in my pocket scratched it	23:31
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Navi	so it won't make direct contact unless the floor is jagged	23:31
chx	ah	23:31
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Navi	a screen protector would be nice, though	23:31
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Grackle	I dropped my N800 once. "Hey Rick, look a-- SHIT!" drops and battery goes flying	23:32
Navi	Heh	23:32
penguinbait	ReKlips, are you using the install scripts?	23:32
ReKlipz	penguinbait: they wont work because IO	23:33
KotCzarny	i think flying battery is a good thing, momentum taken away from device ;)	23:33
ReKlipz	because I'm using amd64	23:33
Grackle	I dropped my laptop in that class too, heh.	23:33
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KotCzarny	reklipz: does vmware work on amd64 ?	23:33
Navi	Oh, weird	23:33
* Grackle dropped an open hp dv500t with 12 cell battery.. it landed face down, hard		23:33
penguinbait	vmware probably best bet	23:33
ReKlipz	KotCzarny: yes it does, and i have it up and running, so a VM eh? no real amd64 support?	23:34
Navi	ReKlipz, nah	23:34
KotCzarny	reklipz: maybe trying building it from scratch..	23:34
Navi	ReKlipz, Nokia didn't think too far ahead with the SDK, it seems	23:34
* RST38h remembers trying to drop an IBM RS6000 and a 70kg monitor it came with		23:34
ReKlipz	KotCzarny: ok, debian has a scratchbox2 package	23:34
Grackle	ReKlipz: Does your processor support virtualization?	23:34
KotCzarny	i think people tried it, don't know about results	23:34
RST38h	Badly needed to get rid of the box	23:34
ReKlipz	Grackle, i believe so	23:34
Navi	RST38h, box?	23:34
Grackle	ReKlipz: I would use the vmware appliance then. It makes life easy.	23:35
KotCzarny	70kg?	23:35
KotCzarny	that's more than me	23:35
KotCzarny	;)	23:35
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RST38h	Navi: it was an ibm-gray colored box the size of two full size pc tower cases	23:35
ReKlipz	KotCzarny: I'll try compiling from source, then, Grackle, if that doesnt work, a VM it is.	23:35
RST38h	Kot: We actually made bets if dropping it from a window will register as a minor earthquake	23:36
KotCzarny	very minor	23:36
KotCzarny	probably undetectable	23:36
KotCzarny	:)	23:36
RST38h	yea, but still	23:36
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RST38h	never got lost. never broke. never fell out of a window.	23:36
Grackle	ReKlipz: Okay. The vm is nice though. With open-vm-tools, you can copy and paste between OSs, drag the mouse in between them, etc. It's very easy to deal with. I have two monitors, and I just run the appliance full screen on one.	23:36
KotCzarny	hard to misplace 70kg monster	23:37
KotCzarny	:)	23:37
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KotCzarny	and won't fit on most desks too	23:37
RST38h	it fit all right	23:37
KotCzarny	exclusively?	23:38
KotCzarny	:)	23:38
Grackle	70kg sounds a bit much	23:38
RST38h	required a kick with a foot every morning (one of hds had trouble starting)	23:38
KotCzarny	keeps user in shape?	23:38
KotCzarny	:)	23:38
RST38h	Grackle: it was a huge cubic-shaped CRT thing	23:38
* KotCzarny had 19" 30kg crt, once		23:39
Grackle	Oh, I see, it was an all in one device?	23:39
chx	heh, at a local dorm they had a fun series of contests every year , and one of the tasks was to simulate a nuclear explosion, so the kids grabbed a bedsheet to cover themselves, grabbed the fireaxe and some old, old tv and booom! others simply dropped the tv from the 12th floor.	23:39
RST38h	larger than normal, pretty much like 1.5 22" SUN CRTs	23:39
RST38h	TV does not blow up well enouh	23:39
Grackle	that's pretty ridiculous	23:40
RST38h	tell them to do it on a Li battery next time	23:40
RST38h	make sure they place it into a pool of water and apply the axe to it	23:40
Grackle	wait till one year when some smartass detonates a small thermonuclear device	23:40
KotCzarny	or building's gas installation	23:41
KotCzarny	;)	23:41
RST38h	that is what I call "mean"	23:41
RST38h	and predictable	23:41
KotCzarny	and stupid	23:41
glass	everything worth enough doing just for the fun of it is stupid	23:41
Grackle	Mmm, yes, fire up an oxy-acetylene torch, extinguish the flame, and fill a trash bag. That'll blow out every window in sight.	23:41
RST38h	but dropping a package of aluminium paint off the 5th floor and lighting it up somewhere around 4th floor should do the job	23:42
KotCzarny	why around 4th, make a fireball	23:42
KotCzarny	;)	23:42
RST38h	won't blow every window in sight, but will leave a lot of people without sight	23:42
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RST38h	Kot: You want stuff to spread in the air, or it won't flash well	23:42
KotCzarny	ahm	23:42
KotCzarny	ok	23:42
RST38h	kinda like those vacuum bombs	23:43
chx	hm, i just was telling a story	23:43
RST38h	chx: see how helpful we all are?	23:43
KotCzarny	how about those paint sprayer addons?	23:43
penguinbait	I have a potatoe cannon	23:43
chx	this channel is logged	23:43
RST38h	not sure if they will work	23:43
chx	so i won't go further into this topic :)	23:44
Grackle	hah	23:44
penguinbait	logged and posted for the whole world to see	23:44
RST38h	depends on what the silvery stuff is (has to be metal) and what the filler is	23:44
Grackle	I never built a potato cannon, but I built a small pneumatic cannon with a 3/4" barrel	23:44
KotCzarny	potato canon can be dangerous	23:44
KotCzarny	:)	23:44
Navi	chx, we know it's logged, but we could care less :D	23:45
Grackle	They're not too bad. It's usually the people that are using them that can be dangerous.	23:45
penguinbait	yes, adding glass or rocks is very bad	23:45
penguinbait	of course a deadly potatoe is no better	23:45
Grackle	:/ PVC doesn't stand up well to stress like that	23:45
KotCzarny	:)	23:45
penguinbait	sure it does :)	23:45
Grackle	It shatters, so putting rocks and glass through it probably isn't a good idea	23:45
Grackle	I think you meant "sure it did"	23:46
KotCzarny	otoh, it is	23:46
penguinbait	depends on whos after you :)	23:46
KotCzarny	;)	23:46
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summatusmentis	so the cross compile env for the N8x0 series is called sandbox?	23:49
summatusmentis	how does it work?	23:49
ReKlipz	Grackle: I'm gonna use virtualbox isntead of vmware	23:49
KotCzarny	sandbox?	23:49
qwerty12_N800	I have a couple of tasers made from disposeable cameras. on same note, my friend got banned from post office...	23:49
qwerty12_N800	scratchbox	23:49
summatusmentis	oh right, scratchbox	23:49
n800n	ooohhh k	23:49
Grackle	ReKlipz: Hm, okay. I don't know how you're going to conver the image to virtualbox, but if you can, more power to you.	23:50
summatusmentis	KotCzarny: sorry, I don't have a N8x0, I'm debating whether or not to sell my Zaurus c3200, and purchase an N810	23:50
ReKlipz	Grackle: what image?	23:50
KotCzarny	why sell, have both	23:50
KotCzarny	:)	23:50
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Grackle	http://www.vmware.com/appliances/directory/702 ReKlipz	23:50
* summatusmentis == college student		23:50
ReKlipz	lol, awesome	23:50
summatusmentis	so, that's why sell :)	23:51
Grackle	Yeah, haha, I realized nobody told you about that	23:51
* Grackle thought you knew		23:51
ReKlipz	Grackle: I was just gonna install debian and then setup the environment with the .sh scripts	23:51
Grackle	This way is easier. Includes docs, too!	23:51
KotCzarny	heh	23:51
Grackle	You'll be up and running in no time.	23:52
KotCzarny	i thought it was self explanatory, when i said vmware image	23:52
KotCzarny	:)	23:52
summatusmentis	KotCzarny: well, being a college studen, and being fed up with Angstrom	23:52
KotCzarny	i should be more specific next time :)	23:52
penguinbait	Not sure if the vmware appliance will work for you? I tried it on a laptop with mobile CPU and it would not work for me?	23:52
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n800n	what's the best way to code for maemo if they don't have a tablet?	23:52
KotCzarny	summatusmentis: :)	23:52
KotCzarny	n800n: maemo sdk	23:52
Grackle	penguinbait: He has an amd64	23:52
penguinbait	with or without it would be scratchbox/sdk	23:52
n800n	is there an emulator?	23:53
KotCzarny	yes	23:53
KotCzarny	included afair	23:53
Grackle	yes, that's part of the scratchbox system	23:53
n800n	cool	23:53
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Grackle	n800n: See the vmware appliance I linked	23:53
Grackle	That is the best way to get started.	23:53
zap	Anybody can explain why gstreamer takes 20% CPU to play an ogg file, and mplayer does the same with just 0.3% ?	23:54
penguinbait	well, I could not use it because my CPU was mobile, he may have the same issue with the AMD?	23:54
Grackle	Install vmware. Boot image. Congratulations, you have a working build environment for the IT.	23:54
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Grackle	penguinbait: His supports virtualization.	23:54
KotCzarny	zap: top is not a benchmark	23:55
KotCzarny	:)	23:55
zap	yep, but that's quite a difference	23:55
zap	100 times to be precise	23:55
KotCzarny	zap: if you want real numbers decode file to /dev/null	23:55
KotCzarny	then compare times	23:55
Grackle	hint: use time	23:56
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zap	if I only would understand something in gstreamer	23:56
zap	I just got able to use playbin...	23:56
KotCzarny	you would have to create pipe with filesink at the end	23:57
KotCzarny	probably	23:57
KotCzarny	google for gstlaunch examples	23:57

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