IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-05-06

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evaryont_How do I remove the bottom SD card from my nokia n800? A quick scan of the user guide didn't revail anything. I tried pressing the card in further so maybe a spring would push it out, but that didn't work :/00:51
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nomisevaryont_: there is no clicking mechanism. Just lift it up a bit and pull it out00:57
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cLinno springs00:58
cLinmy card has a little dip so i put my fingernail there and pull it out00:58
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zapHello guys! I got today this wonderful n810 and I like it a lot, but what makes me worry is that I couldn't get a GPS fix for all the day. Is this a known problem, or its just a defective exemplar?01:02
hrwzap: normal01:02
zapis it supposed to 'work' like this?01:02
tank-mantakes like up to 5min to get a signal01:03
term-sigit's depence, my get ready after 5-10 seconds when i`m outside but inside any buildings it takes ages to catch signal..01:03
hrwzap: gps in n810 was made for phones where it can get additional data from gsm network - 'a' in agps01:03
zapso I have to connect it to a phone?01:04
jldiaznonw and hated problem01:04
jldiazbenh/window refresh01:04
benhah yes, I have this problem too01:05
benhpretty annoying01:05
benhonce it's locked, it stays locked fine tho, but it's a pain01:05
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zaphrw: how its supposed to get additional data from GSM then?01:05
pupnikRST38h: i think it still installs to / - not sure01:05
pupnikar x wesnoth*.deb or dpkg --contents we*.deb01:06
pupnikor ar t rather01:06
hrwzap: it is chip for phones rather but got installed in non-phone01:07
hrwzap: you just have to live wit fact that n810 gps is crap01:07
term-sigwhat chip it's n95?01:07
hrwbenh: once it is locked it does not warrant that it will keep it01:07
benhhrw: it tends to from my experience01:08
benhhrw: in fact, I lost it through the sydney M5 tunnel and it picked it back up quickly when out01:08
hrwbenh: last friday I had 250km trip. n810 self-rebooted few times during that. when it got fix it keeped it for some time and then lost for 40-50km to get it back later (if at all)01:09
hrwfor me n810 as gps device is unreliable too much01:10
hrwnot to mention lack of usable navigation software01:10
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jldiazyes, the gps is the most dissapointing feature of the n81001:12
hrwgps, os2008, hw keyboard01:12
hrw3 most dissapointing features of n81001:13
evaryont_where are the folders for Documents, Images, Games, etc?01:13
jldiazI find the keyboard pretty useable01:13
hrwevaryont_: /home/user/.myDocs/ iirc01:14
jldiazI mean, for typing while standing or holding the tablet, wich is its intended use01:14
hrwjldiaz: rshift==lshift01:14
jldiazfor typing on a table, of course, an usb or bluetooth kb is preferred01:15
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zapI too find the keyboard on my old Zaurus SL-C3100 a lot better01:15
jldiazyes, hrw, but this has little impacg01:15
jldiazmore annoying is the lack of a alt key01:15
hrwzap: I prefer c7x0 keyboards over sl-cxx00 one01:15
hrwjldiaz: I use Chr for extra keymapping01:16
evaryont_hm, how do I find the device name? I think it's something along NOKIA-N800-FKJ or whatever01:16
jldiazI'm typing now from the n81001:16
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evaryont_hrw: how is os2008 a bad thing? Better CPU speed is really nice....01:16
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jldiazI know hrw, I hacked a lot the rx-44 file, but I do need chr as the altgr key01:17
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pupnikzap how was keyboard better?01:17
pupnikmore space between keys?01:17
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hrwevaryont: better cpu speed is not related to os200801:18
hrwevaryont: os2008 is closed system.01:18
evaryonthrw: no? I've heard reports that it was...01:18
jldiazbtw, anyone understands the difference btween iso-level3-shift and iso-level5-shift?01:18
evaryonthow is os2008 closed? :(01:18
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hrwevaryont: os2006/2007 had 330MHz limit in kernel. os2008 bumped it to 400MHz01:19
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zappupnik: it was usable, I could type fast without training01:19
evaryontoh. kernel limits, heh01:19
hrwevaryont: how? try to run non-maemo system on tablet01:19
evaryonthrw: why would I?01:19
hrwevaryont: I want to do it01:19
evaryont:/ what's the default root password?01:20
zapwhat means 'has 400MHz limit' in the kernel?01:20
hrwevaryont: read posts as it is 00:20 and I do not want to talk again about why maemo is closed01:20
evaryontheh, fine. thanks01:20
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pupnikit used to be 'rootme' but i forgot if that changed in OS200801:21
pupnikzap given the low-profile (slider) design constraint, they keyboard is about perfect for me.  i just remapped a tab and a |01:22
evaryontpupnik: It's changed :/01:23
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jldiazI put tab at Fn+Backspace, and life is much more easier now at command-line01:23
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pupniktry 12345 or 123456 - sorry i can't remember - google probly knows01:24
evaryontlol I just changed it :P01:25
jldiazIs it possible to get rid of the status/autocompleion bar?01:25
jldiazit is specially unuseful for xter;, and wastes precious vertical space01:26
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evaryonthm, Pictures, Images, Games, Documents, etc aren't in /home/user... :/01:27
elbjldiaz: yeah, you can turn it off in the control panel01:27
jldiazreally?? silly of me!01:28
evaryontah, found it!01:28
elbI turned it off for that very reason01:28
jldiazI was thinking about some obscure config file tinkering...01:28
elbosso-xterm is still a PITA, though, because it won't size to a proper 80x25 in any reasonable fashion :-P01:28
evaryonthrw: fyi Documents, Pictures, etc are in /home/user/MyDocs/.{documents,images,sounds,videos,games}01:29
hrwelb: since when 80x25 is proper? just because vt100/vt420 had it?01:29
hrwelb: 80x24 is more proper iir01:29
jldiazbut I guess that is not possiblr to turn it on/off on a per-application basis01:29
pupniki think it is possible, but i haven't gotten it to work reliably01:30
jldiazok, I found the option. It was a bit obscure imho01:32
pupnikwhat did you find?01:32
elbhrw: depends on whether you use a hardware status line01:32
* pupnik used to have a real vt100 for fun01:33
jldiazbecause what you have to turn off is predictive typing, not "keyboard statusbar" or something alike01:33
elbhrw: the majority of my terminals are 80x24; if I use a hardware status line (e.g., with screen) I use 80x2501:33
hrwelb: I used hp2623a - it had 80x24 with not reusable hardware status line01:33
evaryontwhat are some really good time wasters?01:33
elbhrw: suck01:34
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hrwnow I usually use 120x40 -> 200x60 x-terminals01:34
pupnikpytube or canola for youtube.  games/emulators at
jldiazNow, in order to get rid of xterm toolbar also, I need to think about a good mapping for PgUp and PgDown keys01:34
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jldiazany suggestion?01:35
elbI very seldom resize X terminals width-wise01:35
pupnikmaybe fn+dpad up/down would be mappable?01:35
jldiazis it possible to use for example Fn+Up?01:35
pupnikhavent tried01:35
elbthough sometimes I resize them vertically to 80x50 (which is within pixels of the height of two 80x24 terminals including window decorations on my display)01:35
jldiazI'll try that01:35
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hrwbye all01:36
lcuklots of linux terminal commands dont adapt to width most of the time so theres no point in trying for more01:36
hrwlcuk: examples?01:36
hrwlcuk: really?01:37
elbmost commands do01:37
hrwlcuk: on my system 'make' output is full width01:37
lcukno matter how wide my terminal it gets wrapped around 79ish01:37
lcukother commands are more willing, but make isnt01:38
evaryontpupnik: THANK YOU! THANK YOU! I love programming in Ruby, I was pretty downhearted that there isn't a ruby interpreter for the n800 but you're hosting it! THANK YOU!01:38
hrwlcuk: interesting.. especially due to fact that make does not use any terminal library - it just prints text01:38
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hrwlcuk: 'cat' also wrap on 79?01:38
lcukno, some parts of make do, but whenever i get an error message its formatted to that max01:39
lcukill break it and find an example01:39
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term-sigguys any idea where i can get micro usb -> female cable in uk? adapter will be the best option because i dont like cables..01:40
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lcukyou have a micro->male - easier finding yourself a standard female-female dongle01:41
elbyou probably don't want to put an adapter directly in the port on the device, that's an awful lot of leverage on a port which isn't designed to take force01:41
term-sigok, then female-female dongle, amazon or something else?01:42
lcuki dunno, when i was playing i had a big computer PCI extension with a pair of plugs on.01:43
lcuki just connected them together01:43
benhevaryont: ruby ? yuck01:43
benhhad a look at the interpreter source code the other day, tracking some distro bug, it's a hell hole01:43
benha language designed by somebody who doesn't understand synchronization and locking... I wouldn't touch it with a 10 feet pole01:44
pupnikevaryont: i'm just mirroring some packages.  check out 'dosbox' and 'rubybox' to see a nicely written ruby frontend using the gtk/hildon bindings01:45
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elbbenh: or maybe by someone who understands that concurrency is best avoided ;-)01:45
pupniksolmumaha wrote it.  it can autodownload a bunch of free/shareware games, with config files01:45
benhelb: then he should have completely avoided it in his implementation :-)01:46
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benhiirc, constructs like lock++ won't do good when you use a timer or a signal handler01:46
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benhI don't remember the details of the warts I found in there (in addition to the code being just plain fugly)01:47
elbbenh: the original interpreter did01:47
elbthen support for an in-process interpreter-provided threading model was introduced01:47
benhelb: now as to avoiding concurrency, well, you may be right, and I know tridge will very much agree with you01:47
elbI'm not sure what the current status is01:47
benhelb: but it does somewhat against the HW evolution lately :-)01:47
elbI think most people just avoid ruby threads whenever possible ;-)01:47
elbbenh: all those cores can take advantage of multiple processes, though ;-)01:48
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lcukhmmm, ok the terminal scrollback is fixed size01:48
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benhelb: yes, well, you are totally in sync with tridge here :-)01:48
benhI personally like threads but then, I -do- understand locking & sync :-)01:48
lcukbenh, get into serious dsp code then :)01:49
benh(though I suspect tridge does too .. it's just the average programmer doesn't)01:49
elbthere's definitely a place for threading01:49
elbbut I consider it a last-ditch effort01:49
benhlcuk: did a bit a looooong time ago... nowadays, I do serious kernel code :-)01:49
benhelb: well, the kernel is a good spot for that :-)01:49
pupnikreal programmers should make dosbox sound emulation faster01:49
elbyou should always let the operating system do everything it can for you -- and protecting memory space is something it can do01:49
benhelb: I tend to agree in principle... in practice however, it's expensive in terms of performances01:50
elbyeah, it depends on what you're doing, for sure01:50
pupniksomeday ... lcuk :) someday...01:50
benhelb: a good example is good old mach with non colocated server for those who remember mklinux...01:50
benhelb: the cost of memory protection was huge01:50
benhelb: though it provides a really nice design01:50
elbbut the windows model of "create a thread for everything", for example, I think is too far01:51
elbespecially since a LOT of applications are blocked most of the time, anyway01:51
benhelb: I agree, and the average windows programmer has no idea about locking01:51
elbthat's actually my biggest problem with ubiquitous threading01:52
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benhelb: ported various windows app to other platforms in a former life, it was scary what you would find in there01:52
elbit requires a level of cluefulness that most programmers just don't have01:52
benhvery true01:52
elbso while the original author may even understand what's going on, the probability of the next guy Getting It goes down rapidly01:52
jldiazwhat is the official X11 name of PgUp PgDn?01:52
elbjldiaz: Prior/Next01:52
jldiazelb, thx!01:52
benhhave to run, bbl01:53
elbbenh: I've always considered Ousterhout's little talk on concurrency versus event-driven programming an excellent position01:53
benhelb: I think tridge did a talk on the matter too, I can't find a reference now01:53
benhelb: I tend to prefer event driven for anything GUI01:54
elbwell, event driven maps well to GUI paradigms, as well01:54
elbso you're not really *losing* by going event driven01:54
benhelb: I agree that threads tend to bring a false sense of simplicity... no complicated state machines, linear programming ... and races01:54
elbbasically, when threads are the right solution, they're the right solution and nothing else even comes close01:55
elbthe rest of the time, you'll be happier with fork() or select() or a mixture thereof01:55
jldiazok, it works. You can map Fn+dpad Up/Down to Prior/Next01:55
benhreally have to run now tho :-) bbl01:56
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jldiazthis will simplify the use of BitchX, and get rid of the xterm toolbar forever01:56
elbjldiaz: yeah, that's exactly what I did01:56
jldiazalso useful over vnc01:56
elbthat and Fn+space to tab go a long way toward making things more usable01:57
elbI almost never use Prior/Next on my PC, because C-v M-v are easier01:57
elbbut on the tablet, Fn+arrows become easier01:57
jldiazfor some reason I prefer Fn+Bkspace for Tab01:58
jldiazwhat did you with chr key?01:58
jldiazi mapped it to iso_level5_shift, and then used type="EIGTH_LEVEL" for most of the other keys02:01
jldiazthis gave me access to a lot of latin1 symbols I need02:01
jldiazbut I miss an Alt key for vnc02:01
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jldiazand do not really know the difference between level3 and level5 shift02:03
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jldiazonly noticed that with level3 (the default) some keys were no re-mapeable02:03
elbI left Chr as-is02:04
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jldiazso you dont have Alt either02:04
elbI use Esc02:05
jldiazthat works for emacs, but not for cycling windows over vnc02:06
elbI don't use vnc ;-)02:06
jldiazlucky of you :)02:06
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elbmy window manager uses Super+Tab, anyway02:10
jldiazI'm getting obsessed with having a truly full-screen console02:10
elband I sure don't have a Super key ;-)02:10
jldiazcan I get rid of the scroll bar?02:10
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jldiazthis is the last space consumer02:11
jldiazwich ia not required once I have Prior/Next keys02:11
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elbyou can, in gconftool02:11
elbbut it comes back every time you restart02:12
elbapparently that's fixed in some version of osso-xterm floating around the web02:12
elb(you'll also notice that the toolbar comes back every time you restart)02:12
jldiazI have the latest svn version of osso-xterm02:12
jldiazin this version the toolbar does not come back02:13
elboh, then you can probably get rid of the scrollbar with gconftool and have it say gone02:13
* jldiaz is trying that02:13
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ogi1234hi there02:17
ogi1234i am trying to make a keyboard layout for n81002:18
jldiazgconftool is only an interface to the %gconf files scattered under /var/lib/gconf, right?02:18
jldiazogi1234, we were talking about this very subject02:18
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ogi1234i have problem - is i write key <COMP>{ [ ISO_Level5_Shift,ISO_Level5_Shift,ISO_Level5_Shift,ISO_Level5_Shift] };02:20
ogi1234everything is fine02:20
ogi1234but i have to hold chr key02:20
jldiazso, if I edit /var/lib/gconf/apps/osso/xterm/%gconf.xml I can access to the same options than with gconftool, true?02:22
ogi1234with key <COMP>{[Multi_key,Multi_key,Multi_key,Multi_key]}; i cannot go to level502:22
ogi1234any idea?02:22
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jldiazogi1234, what do you pretend?02:22
jldiazI mean, what do you want to do?02:23
ogi1234I want to make a layout for the hardware keybord - n81002:23
jldiaz"pretend" was not the right word, I guess, it is a "false friend" in spanish02:23
jldiazogi1234 , I mean what is the desired behavior for the chr key02:24
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ogi1234when I hold ctrl and pres chr there is a label "input language switched"02:25
ogi1234but it is only a label02:26
ogi1234in fact nothing hapens02:26
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ogi1234i need to toggle the layout on ctrl+chr02:27
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jldiazit happens if the alphanumeric keys have type "EIGHT_LEVEL"02:28
ogi1234i have put so - but it does not work...02:29
jldiazthen, each key has 8 mappings02:29
jldiazthe first 4 and the last 4 get swapped when you press Ctrl-Chr02:29
ogi1234yes, exactly - my defs seems correct02:30
jldiazbut <COMP> needs to be ISO_LEVEL3_SHIFT02:30
ogi1234i have put 8 mappings02:30
ogi1234what do i have to put for the key <COMP> - why does it have 4 values?02:31
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jldiaz4 values for: chr, shift+chr, Fn+chr, Fn+shift+chr02:53
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ogi1234thanks jldiaz - i am still fighting...02:56
ogi1234I have put keybord layouts from
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ogi1234do you know if there is a difference if i modify /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-44 or /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/ukeyboard files?02:58
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evaryont_where does canola store downloaded youtube vids?03:17
evaryont_oh, nvm. Found it ^^03:17
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zakmcan i get SDHC working on my nokia 770  without soldering?03:31
KotCzarnywith usb reader? :)03:31
zakmi dont know. RS-MMC"s are too expensive for me03:32
zakmim just looking at alternate ways?03:32
KotCzarnybuy n80003:32
zakmi just need a nice $10-20 method03:32
zakmnot a option unforuntary. unless your offering to donate?03:32
zakmi wish i knew before i bought my nokia 770 .. i thought this had a SD slot ;p03:33
KotCzarnyif you don't mind ~20% of screen dead there is one for 120$ on craigslist03:33
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zakmi just bought my nokia 770 for $85 like two weeks ago03:33
zakmToronto craigslist?03:33
KotCzarnynew york03:33
zakmebay is like $75 :(03:34
zakmthats why i wish i knew. but its too late now03:34
Fatalhow much would you pay for a 1GB rs-mmc?03:34
zakmall i got is like $20?03:34
zakmlike literaly in my wallet a $20 bill.03:34
zakmcanadian ...03:34
Fatalhere it's ~$2303:34
zakmim in Toronto, ON03:34
KotCzarny1 U.S. dollar = 1.01099968 Canadian dollars03:35
zakmyeah .. i look at the paper03:35
zakmits insignificant when your dealing with $10-20 ;p03:35
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zakmFatal: why. you know where to get a cheap one?03:35
zakmi was thinking ebay but i dont wanna wait like 2 weeks for it to come03:36
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zakmdo SDHC cards work .. like without touching the actual device hardware?03:36
FatalI just thougt the normal prices for them are insanely cheap, then again, I bought my cards >2 years ago03:36
zakmdont mind software like changing kernels and all .. but i dont wanna physically open up and mess with it03:36
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zakmnear me theres a store they want $60 for 1gb rs-mmc -.-03:37
tchan1Gb rs-mmc card $13.85 from,
zakmuhmm shipping...03:37
zakmto canada? im guessing thats US03:37
Fatalzakm: cripes, cellphone or camera store? those are normally insanely expensive :P03:37
zakmand im only 17.. ill need to ask someone with a creditcard then03:37
Fatalregardless of what the real world charges :)03:37
zakmelectronic store03:38
zakmi want to try 2008HE again but the 64mb that came with it doesnt do much in the way of swap ;p03:38
zakmand i want to store more on it03:38
zakmwish i bought a nokia 800 :(03:38
zakmanyone wanna take my nokia 770 and $50 for your nokia 800?03:39
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zakmanyways. is there a easy method for me to use stuff other than rs-mmc's ?03:39
zakmon my nokia 77003:40
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ogi1234hi, again - i am still digging in keyborad layouts - anybody knows what xkb_symbols stands for? i mean is the letters after that related to anything?03:41
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zakmso a custom kernel is all i need?03:43
zakmthats it ... nothing more?03:43
Fatalno idea, I just thought I'd google for nokia 770 sdhc :) was the second hit03:44
zakmcould you check please. i dont want to buy a sdhc and then turns out not working?03:45
freelikegnukinda sad how 810 is minisd03:45
zakmare sdhc's even the right size?03:45
zakmthey look like seame size of SD?03:46
freelikegnusd/sdhc is different tech in a similar size card as rs-mmc03:46
Fatalzakm: I neither have my 770 around, or a sdhc card, plus it's 2:45am. I bet you could read the discussion just as well as me :)03:46
zakmrs-mmc is super small?03:46
zakmrs-mmc is like minisd size?03:46
zakmFatal: ive read it but nobody really confirms it properly03:46
freelikegnusd readers are generally compatible with rs-mmc, but not the other way around iirc03:46
zakmyeah my sd reader works on it03:47
zakmbut if its a super small slot03:47
zakmhow can you fit a SD?03:47
zakmyet the discussion says its possible?03:47
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freelikegnuread the above article about card compatabilities03:49
zakmthat talks about mmc not rs-mmc03:50
zakmrs = reduduced size03:50
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zakmmaking them smaller than mmc's -.-03:50
freelikegnuif you read the entire page, it is explained03:51
zakmThe interesting factor with RS-MMC is that it's the same width as a regular SD or MMC card, and can thus be read (with an adapter) in any SD or MMC slot. <--- but not vice-versa?03:52
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KotCzarnyzakm: flash the fanoush kernel and take your nokia to the store for some sdhc testing/ :)03:55
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zakmyou want me to flash it and then get them to try it and if it works i buy it?03:56
KotCzarny"And all I need other than a slot rework is a kernel?"03:56
zakmi have to change the slot?03:57
zakmi dont want to solder?03:57
KotCzarny ?03:57
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zakmthats to make a miniSD into a SD?03:58
zakmtheres already one of those in the 770 ?03:58
KotCzarnyi wonder if you could fit sd card into 770's slot03:58
zakm <-- inside the 77003:59
zakma SD card width isnt big enough04:00
zakmto slide in04:00
KotCzarnyi thought rs-mmc has the same width as mmc and same wwidth as sd(hc)04:01
zakmits barely going in04:01
zakmand uhm04:01
zakmsticking out alot04:01
KotCzarnythat's length04:01
evaryontwhat could cause the provided PDF reader to reject a pdf file? I tried loading one but in the file browser it's disabled, not letting me select it for loading. :(04:01
zakmno memory card inserted04:01
KotCzarnyevaryont: is it encrypted? :)04:02
evaryontKotCzarny: no04:02
KotCzarnydoes it work in pc ?04:02
zakmevaryont: does it work on a pc?04:02
evaryontI made it via CUPS's print to pdf04:02
zakmso if i patch with a idfferent kernel .. could normal SDs work?04:02
KotCzarnyzakm: do you have any sd card to test?04:02
evaryontboth in Adobe Acrobat Reader v8 & epdfviewer04:02
zakma 128mb in my hand now04:03
zakmim running linux atm .. on 2007HE04:03
KotCzarnythen flash that hacked kernel and test it?04:03
zakmmissing one tree hill04:04
evaryontAlso, what is the little icon in the upper right corner of Canola? It's 4 boxes with the second one filled in and raised slightly?04:04
zakmgonna try in about a hour :P04:04
zakmthanks :D04:04
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evaryontKotCzarny: any reasons? I wanna start 'printing' articles for offline enjoyment! :/04:05
KotCzarnyevaryont: don't know, maybe look for other pdf readers?04:06
evaryontheh. k04:06
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benhlooking at some of the BT UI elements04:34
benhdamn, talk about abusing dbus !04:34
pupnik_hey brand new shit04:36
pupnik_admiral fallon gave direct orders to not fire on the iranian speedboats in january04:36
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KotCzarnypupnik: didn't he resigned lately?04:37
pupnik_he got axed04:38
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pupnik_just for U KotCzarny
pupnik_a great example of using 3d denoise filter to crunch video from 250 to 90 MB04:39
KotCzarnyis there a transcript?04:39
pupnik_no i was going to write one but hey, 90<MB04:39
fysado we have a VNC client that does scaling?04:39
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pupnik_hey KotCzarny can i show your uae vs standard uae at linuxtag?04:55
KotCzarnyit's not mine..04:55
pupnik_well yeah04:55
pupnik_i mean... would you like me to mention you04:55
KotCzarnyand as i said you can do anything you want because i have no rights on it :)04:55
pupnik_i want to compare the gp2x stuff to standard stuff04:55
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pupnik_uae and nes are the only running things atm04:56
KotCzarnyi have only tweaked ui a little and compiled it04:56
pupnik_i probably won't finish snes04:56
pupnik_yeah but i failed and you did it04:56
pupnik_so do i mention you or not04:56
KotCzarnyno problem04:56
KotCzarnyyou can mention me as kotczarny :)04:57
KotCzarnybtw. when is linuxtag ?04:57
lcukits where we throw around velcro penguins04:58
pupnik_nokia stuf 29 may04:58
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KotCzarny3 weeks from now04:58
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KotCzarnylcuk: velcro penguins stuffed with bricks?05:00
lcuki hope not05:00
lcukive been playing lots this weekend05:01
KotCzarnyelement of surprise05:01
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lcukits on the ftp :)05:01
KotCzarnyi'm close to getting out of the ff loop05:01
KotCzarnycollide ?05:02
lcukif you look at the file select, then do the same after drawing something theres a little surprise05:02
lcuki think in the next couple of days i will have 0 + 90 rotation - the font already works i just have to code up the measurement code05:03
KotCzarnyyou should install xrandr patch05:03
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KotCzarnyand see how the code works with it05:04
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lcuki cannot rely on the user installing such a patch so must operate with the playing field as it stands05:04
KotCzarnywell, treat it as getting 'future proof'05:05
lcukwhen i future proof it, the code i have written now should allow me to use this software on 770, maybe even other devices as well05:05
KotCzarnybtw. mouse info overwrites itself in drawing mode05:06
lcukyer i noticed after i ripped out the underbelly of everything05:06
lcukfont code now ORs with the background, it used to just copy05:06
lcuki havent fixed up all places05:06
KotCzarnyhow do i get out of file selector?05:06
KotCzarny(not to mention it doesn't show any files yet05:07
lcukesc - there is lag, i havent tidied up the loop05:07
lcukhad the same issue with one other screen a couple of days ago so will see whats wrong tomorrow05:08
lcuki am going to be including something in sudoers as part of the installi tried a few alternatives earlier and will decide in a few days which seems to work best05:09
KotCzarnyyou should include aspect variable everywhere05:10
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KotCzarnyin 640x480 mode circles aren't citcles05:10
lcuki was shocked i could include it at all, aspect is a tweak of one pair of variables from where i am now05:10
KotCzarnyotoh it's a nice test of resolutions05:11
KotCzarnyie. how thing would look05:11
lcukahhh circles i thought you meant the brushes05:11
KotCzarnybrushes? where?05:11
lcukgo into the drawing05:11
lcukdraw something on the screen05:11
lcukwrite your name or something05:11
lcukthen go back to the "file areas floating around and bumping into them" area05:12
KotCzarnyah, yes, i saw that05:12
KotCzarnybtw. for random movement you should run sin/cos thingy on position05:12
lcukhow many things are bouncing around for you05:12
lcukahhh mines practically full05:13
KotCzarnyi see some overdrawing in bouncing mode05:13
KotCzarnyie. things overflowing to uv plane05:14
lcukyer line code05:14
* lcuk rolls his own eyes - its predebta :P05:14
lcukim starting to enjoy coding in it05:14
KotCzarnybtw. ebook scroll speed is res dependant05:15
KotCzarnyit shouldn't05:15
lcukthats all being ripped out now i have these pieces in place05:16
KotCzarnyand yes, i still like it05:17
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KotCzarnyi wish there would be a gps in a sd form factor05:19
KotCzarny(non sticking out)05:19
pupnik_hey KotCzarny05:19
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pupnik_see the hiroshima pixs?05:19
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KotCzarnyinteresting for n800 users05:20
KotCzarnymaybe for 770 too05:20
lcukgnite folks05:21
KotCzarnynite nite05:21
lcukand pupnik, yes ive seen a lot of them :(05:21
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pupnik_poor huumans05:23
KotCzarnyand if it wasn't for the winning side it would look like a massacre05:23
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mikedep333hey, can somebody link me to the guide to speeding up OS2008?05:29
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Proteousthere's a guide?05:30
mikedep333on somewhere, yes05:31
mikedep333found it05:31
Proteousdo a google search with "" in there05:32
Proteousthat will search just that site05:32
Proteouswithout the quites05:32
mikedep333I found it05:32
mikedep333that link I posted is it05:33
mikedep333thanks anyway though05:33
Proteoususualy works better then the on site search05:33
ProteousI was just saying for future searching :P05:33
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mikedep333lol, yeah05:33
mikedep333google searches do work better like that05:33
Proteousgivin out the knowledge free of charge05:33
mikedep333I am glad to see some sites migrating over to google searches05:33
Proteoussoon you will be a intenet search master like me05:33
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fysamy 16GB class 6 Transcend is half as fast at reads as my 8GB class 6 Transcend.  that doesn't seem right.05:36
fysanow I have a dilemma over which becomes my boot mmc.05:36
mikedep333how fast?05:36
KotCzarnyfysa: smaller05:36
mikedep333I think my 2 GB SD card is like 15MB/sec read05:36
mikedep333and it doesn't seem as fast as the internal memory05:37
KotCzarnymy kingston sdhc cards are ~4mb/s05:37
fysamy 8GB card is about that fast05:37
fysabut my 16GB card is only 8.5 MB/s05:37
fysamikedep333, are you using the 48mhz mmc patch?05:37
KotCzarnyfysa: do you run a custom kernel or it's on original?05:37
fysathis is reads on my desktop. :)05:38
fysahaven't benchmarked on the device yet05:38
KotCzarnyi don't have a sd reader for my pc05:38
KotCzarnyso i can't test05:38
fysamine came with a nice little keyfob reader05:38
KotCzarnywell, i have, but it's usb1.105:38
KotCzarnyso i don't use it for anything but emergency05:39
KotCzarnybtw. i get ~4mb/s with/without sd speedup patch05:40
fysano difference?05:40
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mikedep333fysa: no05:40
mikedep333more info on it please?05:40
fysaI'm using this kernel:05:41
fysathe 'experimental kernel'05:41
KotCzarnybut you didn't benchmarked it on device, yet05:42
mikedep333bookmarked, I'll look into it soon05:42
fysasearching for "48mhz mmc" will give you all the answers05:42
KotCzarnybtw. i use hdparm for testing05:44
KotCzarnydd doesn't flush cache05:44
KotCzarnyman, how i would like to disable maemo-launcher05:46
fysais there an hdparm deb?05:47
KotCzarnydon't know, maybe on ?05:47
KotCzarnyi have compiled it myself05:47
fysaoh, I have bonnie05:48
KotCzarnybonnie on sd?05:48
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fysatime to pack again.  tired of these trips.  thinking of buying a set of clothes to always leave packed.05:52
fysa(my wife thinks I'm nuts)05:52
Navia set that's never washed too05:53
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fysabonnie is writing intelligently.05:53
fysaI will paste my results here so #maemo.log can store them forever.05:53
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fysastill running..06:03
KotCzarnybtw. if you're at it you should do vfat/ext2/ext3 comparison06:04
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fysacoincidentally, it will happen to work out that way ;)06:04
fysathis is vfat06:04
fysaand I'm planning on making this same card ext306:04
fysaer, ext206:04
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KotCzarnyit would be interesting to have a numbers for all three fs'es06:05
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fysaperhaps I can also try a RAID0/RAID1 setup between mmc1 and mmc206:06
fysaoh, wait we have no md.06:06
KotCzarnyi mean unionfs06:06
fysaI was thinking mirrored..06:06
fysaso internal could be 8GB06:06
KotCzarnyisn't mirrored the same speed as plain?06:07
fysaexternal could be partitioned into an 8GB mirror, and an 8GB vfat06:07
KotCzarnystiped could be faster06:07
fysaread speeds are faster I think06:07
fysathey should be.06:07
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KotCzarnythey will drain more power too06:07
fysawell, think of it this way..06:07
fysabeing a mirror..06:07
fysayou can always disable one for normal operation06:08
fysa"RAID 1 offers excellent read speed and a write-speed that is comparable to that of a single disk."06:08
fysayou could always partition it and do a striped partition for swap06:09
KotCzarnyyeah.. sure06:09
fysaI use RAID1 swap on my home server..06:09
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KotCzarnyisn't ram dirt cheap nowadays?06:10
fysanot in the N80006:10
KotCzarnydo you use n800 as a home server?06:10
fysathe thought has crossed my mind..06:10
fysaN800 + USB eSATA/USB enclosure06:11
fysaI have 8 disks here ready to be tested..06:11
KotCzarnyhmm, 2x 64gb would be enough i think06:11
fysatiny/small/silent media server..06:11
fysa(apart from the drives)06:11
fysaand affordable at $20006:11
fysaI have a giant 15-bay case I need to get rid of.06:12
KotCzarnythere are wifi routers with usb <100$06:12
fysamaybe, if I can find one that will run debian..06:12
fysapython apps on the server06:13
KotCzarnyjust rewrite them in c/shell06:13
fysamuch more RAM in the N800 than any router06:14
KotCzarnyyes, but eaten by hildon and friends06:14
fysadon't need hildon :)06:14
johnxthe NSLU2 and WRT54SL come to mind as possible choices06:14
fysait's a server, remember?06:14
KotCzarnybut need friends06:14
fysaI am using an Asus 500gpe or whatever.. with OpenWRT currently.06:15
* KotCzarny is using wrt54g with openwrt06:15
KotCzarnyin fact i'm ircing from it right now06:15
johnxKotCzarny, eh? just run debian on the tablet and you don't need any big programs sucking RAM06:16
Navi"This APT has Super Cow Powers." <- O_o06:16
KotCzarnyjohnx: no power management kills the idea for me06:16
johnxfor a server?06:16
fysapower management?06:16
fysait's a 400MHz ARM..06:16
KotCzarnyfor using anything other than maemo right now06:16
johnxand yes there is power management, it's just not as optimized06:16
fysareplacing a 100 watt Athlon06:16
KotCzarnyjohnx: do you get ~8-10 days on idle?06:17
KotCzarnyfysa: how about 200mhz mips ?06:17
fysayes, but low RAM06:17
fysaI need apache+mysql06:17
KotCzarnyenough for 2x epic + screen + im + links + some other stuff06:17
fysa128MB is really the low end.06:17
johnxpower saving should get better with the next debian release for n800, since I've found some info on how to do it better :)06:18
KotCzarnyjohnx: how long can it idle ?06:18
fysajohnx, did you see the ubuntu port?06:18
johnxKotCzarny, dunno. You seem to be the best tester in that regard06:19
johnxfysa, confused me more than anything06:19
fysaanyway, trying RAID is worth a shot. ;)06:19
fysabonnie is still running.06:19
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fysamy card is going to explode.06:20
KotCzarnyi think mmc-[u]mount should be modded to obey /etc/fstab06:20
* KotCzarny adds that to the todo list06:20
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fysathere is ARM openwrt06:21
NaviAnyone use the ogg-support package?06:21
NaviI can't remove it06:21
KotCzarnyfysa: there is x86 openwrt :)06:21
fysamy goal this year re: electronics and such is to make everything as small as possible.06:22
fysaand minimal.06:22
fysaso I can live like Robert DeNiro on Heat.06:23
johnxin a trailer by a movie set?06:23
KotCzarnyi'm hoping for portable energy sources06:23
johnxsuch as?06:24
KotCzarnywithout need to recharge for a year or so06:24
KotCzarnynothing in particular06:24
johnxmaybe a nice radio-isotope battery?06:24
Navijohnx, oooh06:24
NaviThat sounds sexy06:24
KotCzarnyjohnx: more probably photosyntesis06:24
NaviI wanna buy one06:24
KotCzarnyor some heat+hydrogen cells06:24
fysamake it powered by the body and nerds will be the most fit of all.06:24
johnxNavi, talk to someone in Russia. Apparently they used them for remote light-houses06:25
fysamaybe you surround the heart cage in a netting to harness it's raw energy.06:25
KotCzarnyor just get the solarcells better06:25
Navijohnx, woo06:25
Naviautocomplete is so useless most of the time.06:26
NaviIt picks the worst words to help06:26
johnxyeah, seriously! Maybe I just don't write the way it wants06:26
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NaviToo bad we don't have the iPhone's awesome horrible typing autocorrection06:27
doc|homewe could if you really wanted to, you just have to code it06:28
NaviYou're funny, but no.06:29
doc|homeyou know what I found out a while back,  a radio doesn't need a power source, just needs a transistor06:29
KotCzarnydoesn't transistor need some power to work?06:30
doc|homeseemingly not06:30
doc|homesomething to do with frequencies or some such06:31
johnxit should pull a little power from the transmission itself? You wouldn't get loud sound of course...06:31
doc|homethat's right06:31
KotCzarnystill it needs some power06:32
KotCzarnybe it from transmission or battery06:32
doc|homeit's induced by the radio transmission06:32
doc|homesure, but that's all at the transmitter, which it would have anyway06:32
doc|homeiirc from my terrible telecomms lecturer, power gives distance06:32
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fysa.. bonnie still running ..06:39
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KotCzarnysay buh-bah to your card?06:39
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Redline`fysa, how fast is the USB port on the N800?06:40
Redline`I wouldn't think the N800 would be well suited to act has a media server.06:41
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KotCzarnyi agree, wifi is ~500kb/s06:42
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Redline`yeah. with that limitation, it would maybe be a moderate-performing torrent server.06:48
Redline`then again, I don't think it would have enough cpu to handle 500k of torrent data.06:49
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* KotCzarny loves dual-head06:51
fysaUSB speed is the bottleneck for sure.06:52
KotCzarnyfridge as a server?06:53
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KotCzarnyi wonder when they will start selling wifi enabled electrical appliances06:55
KotCzarnyfridge + wifi + webcam06:55
KotCzarnynow you can see your food without getting off the couch06:56
KotCzarny(and catch that nightly food thief)06:56
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johnxand see whether the light is on when the door is closed!06:56
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KotCzarnythat would make a nice server07:00
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johnxNavi, if you haven't bought a keyboard yet, check out this thread:
Navishipping is double the cost of the keyboard07:11
Navithat always pisses me off07:11
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KotCzarnybut kb itself is nice07:11
johnxyeah, getting stuff hauled around in the "real world" is expensive, annoying and slow :/07:12
KotCzarnybut has windows key, fffft07:12
johnxwindows keys are great!07:12
KotCzarnycould use a trackpoint07:12
KotCzarnyi miss that on every kb07:12
NaviI use my windows key as a meta07:12
johnxThere's nothing like having an extra modifier key07:12
KotCzarnythere's nothing like typing patterns07:12
johnxon my desktop I use the windows key as the modifier for actions that affect the desktop or all windows07:13
KotCzarnyi love the way ibm thinkpads were without m$ logo07:13
NaviI use it for shortcuts07:13
johnxbut that's massively expensive and not touch typable is it?07:14
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fysayou glue the N800 to the cover07:14
johnxnow that would actually be cool07:14
fysait's a thumb keyboard..07:14
fysameant for HTPC07:14
KotCzarnyit's weiight centre would kill your hands07:14
johnxso use counterweights. problem solved!07:15
KotCzarnyfn+enter acts as a ctrl-alt-del07:15
fysatwo thumb salute ;)07:15
NaviSolution: Glue it to your hands07:15
johnxheh...much fun on the linux cli07:15
fysa$120 or something?07:16
fysamaybe useful on long flights or something ;)07:18
KotCzarnyusb kb would suck your power faster07:18
johnxbut you could power the whole setup with one external battery pack07:18
johnxit's a trade-off either way07:18
KotCzarnyyes, but it's getting big then07:18
KotCzarnyso maybe just get a ultraportable laptop07:18
johnxthat's getting expensive (or it was expensive before the eee)07:19
KotCzarnysecond hand stuff is cheap07:19
KotCzarnyibm x40 is ~400-500$ today07:19
KotCzarnyand has one of the best battery life for laptops07:20
johnxbut if you're buying used the first thing you need is a new battery :P07:20
KotCzarnynot really07:20
KotCzarnythat depends on luck07:20
KotCzarnysometimes it's 30%, sometimes >90%07:20
johnxLi-ion batteries lose lots of charge just sitting on a shelf07:21
KotCzarnyif kept properly it's minimal07:21
NaviYay for battery technology07:21
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* johnx waits for the post apocalyptic future where he's allowed to use radio-isotope batteries07:22
KotCzarnyi prefer hydrogen/solar based ones07:22
* Navi throws uranium rods at johnx07:23
johnxI just like the idea of having a laptop with a sealed case that just sits there unplugged and runs for 20 years07:23
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KotCzarnybut then you would start getting heaps of sh*t07:24
johnxwill need a geiger counter watch to go with it...07:24
KotCzarnynot going to happen07:24
KotCzarnyit could spread panic07:24
johnxgeiger counter watch?07:24
KotCzarnyin some areas07:24
NaviYay for wiicontrol07:24
johnxKotCzarny, :P07:25
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KotCzarnyi have a friend that lives in mountain area07:27
KotCzarnyit has quite high radon pollution07:27
KotCzarnyso high it affects electronics07:27
johnxmaybe your friend should move07:27
KotCzarnyspurious reboots, memory corruption07:27
KotCzarnyhe will07:27
KotCzarnyto iceland07:27
johnxgood plan07:28
KotCzarnybut what about goverment not telling people it's bad to live there?07:28
KotCzarny(in his home city)07:28
doc|homepeople can't check these things for themselves?07:29
doc|homeradon's been a problem at least since I was a kid07:29
johnxwell of course it's bad, but people also need to take matters into their own hands to figure out if they're living somewhere unsafe07:29
KotCzarnyyeah, and what would they do?07:29
johnxuhm, move07:29
KotCzarnymoving is expensive07:29
KotCzarnyin money and emotionally too07:30
doc|homeso, eh, then he's fucked either way :)07:30
johnxyeah, it's called priorities07:30
doc|homethe government not doing checks is moot :)07:30
johnx"Do I value my health more than my home?" if yes, move07:30
KotCzarnyi think nyc area is pretty polluted too07:30
johnxoh for sure07:31
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KotCzarnyas all of the big cities07:31
johnxit all comes down to priorities and your own cost/benefit analysis07:31
johnxanyways, I'm off for now07:31
johnx'later all07:31
KotCzarnywhat's interesting in his story that electronics has higher failure rate there07:31
GrackleRadon is pretty heavy. Ventilate the main rooms and avoid laying down in the basement.. :P07:32
NaviYou should know whether or not you live in a safe environment when you move there in the first place07:32
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KotCzarnygrackle: if the wind is calm radon keeps accumulating, to the 4-5th floor high07:32
fysathe problem is people lived in these places for generations before knowing what radon is.07:32
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doc|homeKotCzarny: then I definitely think it's time to move07:33
GrackleIt's really that bad? Yikes.07:33
KotCzarnyit's a poor area though07:33
GrackleAround here it seeps into basements, but that's about it.07:33
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fysaVersion  1.03       ------Sequential Output------ --Sequential Input- --Random-07:41
fysa                    -Per Chr- --Block-- -Rewrite- -Per Chr- --Block-- --Seeks--07:41
fysaMachine        Size K/sec %CP K/sec %CP K/sec %CP K/sec %CP K/sec %CP  /sec %CP07:41
fysaNokia-N800-50- 300M  2776  96  5304  14  3554  16  3014  98 13488  16 198.7   107:41
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fysasee the pastebin for full.07:41
KotCzarnynow the same for ext3 pls07:41
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fysatesting the 16GB card first, then I will try ext307:42
fysawill let it run while I sleep..  night night07:42
NaviSomething's borked...07:42
rm_youhrm... soo....... so far, my device has been working after reflash07:43
rm_youwhich is weird..... since it was dieing on both the flash OS and when running debian from SD >_>07:43
KotCzarnyrm_you: lucky you :)07:43
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rm_youmaybe debian was trying to load the flash memory part just for fun, and then would die07:43
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KotCzarnyor just temperature finally stabilized broken connection somewhere07:44
rm_youso i guess after finals are over i can start work on Adv-BL again07:46
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Navijohnx, the seller doesn't exist on ebay anymore :(07:54
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benhsomebody knows what's the "user_activated" argument passed to a control panel ?08:52
benhit's not totally clear to me from the doc08:52
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inzHmm, update manager wants to upgrade my scratchbox09:51
KotCzarnygo for it09:51
inzOf course I do09:51
* Cptnodegard hates classfronter09:57
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zapHello everybody again! :) I somehow managed to break my theme such that all selected items and buttons and checkboxes etc are invisible :-( Switching the theme does not help. Any idea how to reset the theme completely?10:04
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Cptnodegardtry searching internettablettalk, i know ive read about that problem there somwhere10:09
InteliWaspis there a problem with viewing a large avi file?10:10
CptnodegardInteliWasp: if the resolution and or bitrate is high you will get a very choppy playback, but the physical size of the file doesnt matter (meaning if its a 1GB file because its a long movie its ok if the bitrate and resolution is supported without problem)10:13
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InteliWaspthe resolution is 640x480, i am not shure what bit rate it is...10:16
Cptnodegardhow long is it?10:17
Cptnodegardand what file size10:17
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Cptnodegardat that resolution i think youll get a very choppy video, especially if its a lot of action/fast moving (because bitrate will spike drastically in those scenes)10:18
kulveit's choppy in all cases with that resolution10:18
zapI found something about Control Panel -> Tools -> Restore Original Settings but I can't find any "Tools" in my Control Panel (OS 2008)10:19
wndzap, check the application menu10:20
InteliWaspcrud... is there anything i can do?10:21
zapah, dumb me10:21
kulveInteliWasp: transcode it to lower resolution10:22
zapbah, asks me the lock code10:22
InteliWaspdo you recomend any linux base transcoders?10:22
zapis there any way to reset it? I've got  anew device and dunno what's it initially10:22
InteliWaspzap, 123410:23
InteliWaspi think...10:23
zapInteliWasp, you can try mencoder and some wrapper thing like this:
zapInteliWasp, 1234 doesnt work :(10:24
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zapah, 12345\10:25
InteliWaspdoh! i forgot the 510:26
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zapsad, Restore Original Settings didn't help.10:29
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zaphmm, "Clear Device" did not removed all packages I have installed10:36
zapand I still have invisible (many) controls10:37
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zapHaha, found the post with the same problem, 0 answers since 12 January :-(((10:55
Stskeepszap: i'd personally just throw the towel in the ring and reflash if it messes up that badly :P11:00
zapyes, I could do that but what if it happens again? I usually tend to know what's going on, and not blindly rely on reflashing...11:01
zaps/to know/to understand11:02
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zapAnybody knows where Maemo holds the theme settings, and the themes themselves?11:21
KotCzarny /usr/share/themes ?11:21
KotCzarnygood night ppl11:22
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KhertanHi !11:49
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X-Fade_Morning Khertan.11:50
KhertanHELP ! HELP ! HELP ! HELP ! :)11:50
X-Fade_Where is the fire?11:50
Cptnodegardroot/fire/ ?11:50
Khertanmaybe some python guru can help me ... on my debian return a date with a timezone (tzname) ... but in maemo ... i get a None object for the timezone ...11:51
Khertana locale setting ? maybe ?11:51
Khertanhi X-Fade_ :)11:51
Khertan(managing timezone in python is a real pain ... mainly with google agenda api ... !)11:51
X-Fade_Working on a agenda desktop plugin? :)11:52
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Khertanworking on a agenda ... with google sync ... and an home desktop plugin ;)11:52
Khertanagenda works ... google sync too ... but with some delta in hours ... due to timezone ...11:53
Khertan(recurring event isn't implemented too)11:53
X-Fade_Nice :)11:54
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Khertangoogle api isn't really a good api ...11:55
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lcukKotCzarny, you still around?12:01
lcukmornin folks \:D12:02
Khertan-- ?12:05
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benhI have a question with the SDK env.12:26
benhI'm trying to fakeroot dpkg -i mypackage.dep in there12:27
benhand it fails bcs it can't find "su"12:27
benh(which is normally provided by busybox)12:27
benhwhat am I missing ?12:27
benhhrm... killall too12:27
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fysaVersion  1.03       ------Sequential Output------ --Sequential Input- --Random-13:33
fysa                    -Per Chr- --Block-- -Rewrite- -Per Chr- --Block-- --Seeks--13:33
fysaMachine        Size K/sec %CP K/sec %CP K/sec %CP K/sec %CP K/sec %CP  /sec %CP13:33
fysaNokia-N800-50- 300M  1120  93  3369  10  2545  15  3012  98 13229  17 175.6   113:33
fysa                    ------Sequential Create------ --------Random Create--------13:33
fysa                    -Create-- --Read--- -Delete-- -Create-- --Read--- -Delete--13:33
fysa              files  /sec %CP  /sec %CP  /sec %CP  /sec %CP  /sec %CP  /sec %CP13:33
fysa                 16     6  79    42  58    44  47    10  76    32  62    20  6313:33
fysa16GB Transcend SDHC13:33
* ccooke notes that 16GB micro SDHC are actually available now...13:40
evaryont_Ok, I can't open this PDF AT ALL....13:40
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iDSum with which app can i see the info from my n800 system?14:11
johnxwhat kind of info?14:12
johnxcommand line or GUI?14:12
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lcukmeh, customers14:35
lcuknoooo, they help pay my wages14:35
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lcukjust lots of eye rolling this morning14:36
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unixSnobhow do I force the keyboard to appear?  I'm selecting a text field on the n800, and it's not appearing15:00
johnxwere you using a bt or usb keyboard before that?15:00
unixSnobI have a usb keyboard that I could go hook up.. but it's not conventient15:01
johnxthe problem tends to appear when you've had a bt or usb keyboard plugged in and then unplug it15:02
unixSnobah, I didn't quite answer you.. no, i wasn't using it.15:02
unixSnobI've typed from the touch screen since the last time i used the usb keyboard15:02
johnxinteresting. the center d-pad button should make the thumbboard appear15:02
johnxdoes that work or does it act like you pressed return?15:03
unixSnobinteresting.. it acted like a return key the first time.. but the second time it gave me a full screen keyboard15:04
unixSnobultimately, it worked.  Thanks!15:05
johnxit seems like the tablets can run into issues switching between usb/bt and onscreen keyboards15:05
johnxI wonder if there's a bug number...15:05
unixSnobBTW, the text field was for a banking website trying to authenticate me.. so a security feature may have been interfering15:06
johnxprobably not15:07
johnxbut the browser seems to have more buggy issues with the onscreen keyboard than any other app15:07
unixSnobsometimes it just takes a second try15:07
unixSnobbut this is the first time I had to do something different15:08
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johnxit really doesn't like the fullscreen thumbboard :/15:08
sp3000unixSnob: perhaps there's a bug on it15:12
unixSnobthat's what I would call it.. it didn't do what it was supposed to15:13
sp3000the submit vs bring up fkb thing15:13
unixSnobah, yeah, that would be another bug15:14
sp3000it might depend on whether you focused the field or whether it was by script, for instance15:14
unixSnobWell, I think there's a 3rd bug in there.. because sometimes the keyboard does appear, but my entry goes to an unfocused field15:14
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unixSnobthat's a rare problem though.. the workaround is just to tap around the screen and refocus the field15:16
sp3000bugs with minimal testcase pages and steps if you can :)15:16
johnxis there an official nokia name for the software fullscreen thumbboard?15:17
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Atariifinally got my iGo keyboard :)15:18
sp3000dunno, thumb finger fkb should be a decent set of search words15:18
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unixSnobthe pdf reader doesn't seem to be integrated w/ the browser too well.  If I choose to view a pdf, i just end up with a blank browser screen15:22
unixSnobI need to choose 'save' and then open the pdf as a separate step, it seems15:22
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sp3000haven't seen that15:26
sp3000has an evince install done something funny?15:26
sp3000not sure if a site could cause that, unless it embeds in some sort  of explicit manner but I don't recall seeing such for pdfs15:27
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sp3000getting a blank browser window in addition to pdf-viewer sounds entirely likely though, if the site assumes your browser embeds a pdf viewer and so the site targets the load in a new window15:28
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sp3000firefox works around that by closing a new tab automatically if the only thing there was a load that went to an external helper, dunno if that is since 2 or 315:30
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hrwsp3000: it can be in 2 and 3 by plugin15:33
KhertanHum ... create an event on google agenda ... localy ... 16h30 to 17h30 ... move it after sync on mCalendar ... to 17h40 to 18h40 ... and you get 21h40 to 22h40 on google agenda ...15:34
sp3000sure, plugin since forever; I meant the workaround, which applies to other types too15:34
Khertanhum ... it seems my localtime/utctime problem isn't really well resolved ...15:34
johnxtell everyone they need to either use UTC or move to Greenwich :)15:36
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Khertanlol ... before say to france to not use this stupid daylight time !15:37
johnx~lart daylight savings time15:37
* infobot whips out a sword and chops daylight savings time in half15:37
Khertanand google to make a real api15:37
johnxin a past life as a sys admin I remember more than one occasion when daylight savings time changes caused problems for "legacy" systems...15:38
Solarionwhat's wrong with dst/15:38
Solarion(at leat from a programming perspective, it's a non-issue)15:38
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johnxit's bearable as long as the gov't doesn't go mucking with it every year15:39
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Solarionheh.  true.15:39
johnxit's fine for you programmers because you just rely on us sys admins to make sure everything is ok on the underlying system :P15:39
Khertanand it s a real pain to manage it in python !15:39
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Khertanjohnx > it s not really fine !15:39
Solarionjohnx: if it's not in seconds since the epoch, it's crap!15:39
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johnxSolarion, agreed!15:40
Khertanso google api sucks :)15:40
johnxKhertan, then lets overthrow the tyranny of our DST enforcing opressors!15:40
Khertando u have a good online calendar alternativ ?15:41
johnxapparently gpe syncs with google calendar, but that's all I know15:41
johnxI don't keep a digital calendar right now15:42
johnxit's a whole bunch of words on a sheet of paper...15:42
Khertanjohnx > gpe doesn't syncs with google calendar ...15:42
Khertanermining do it ...15:42
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johnxcan't you just have gpe-cal subscribe on one side and publish on another?15:43
Khertan2008-05-06T17:11:00.00-02:00 give to google ...15:43
Khertan... ? :)15:44
johnxI really don't know15:44
johnxtheoretically there are people who use this...I just don't know how15:44
Khertani know ... but i don't like gpe15:45
Khertanit s why i'm doing my own calendar ... with integrated google agenda sync15:45
johnxI meant theoretically there are people who use the google calendar api15:45
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Khertanyes ... and erminig author say that is a real pain to use api :)15:46
Khertanyeah ... now it s works ...15:47
Khertanutc time powa :)15:47
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johnxeveryone move to greenwich!15:47
Khertanlol :)15:48
Khertanno of course using local time of the nit15:48
Turrican_someone who know where i can found this theme -> ?15:52
Turrican_(sorry for the lame question :P)15:53
Khertanar !!! again a stupid question .... !!! Burn this user !!!!15:54
johnxno problem, but that's a theme for OS2006 or OS200715:54
johnxTurrican_, which tablet and OS are you using?15:54
Khertanouch it s a theme for OS200615:54
Turrican_johnx: i have a n800/os200815:55
johnxthen you probably won't be able to use that theme15:56
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johnxIt's one of the default themes on OS2006 so you could unpack it from there and use the graphics to make yourself a new theme that looks like it15:56
johnxdepends on how motivated you are I guess :)15:56
sp3000isn't that rather one of the 2007 builtins15:56
johnxis it?15:56
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johnxhmm, maybe so15:57
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Turrican_johnx: I bought it about a week ago, so I'm a bit newbie at the moment :P15:57
Turrican_johnx: anyway tnx for the info15:57
johnxthen you might have to learn to live without the theme for a while :)15:58
Turrican_btw, so avoid stupid question in a develop channel, is there a channel for newbies? =)15:58
johnxnah, this is the general channel.15:58
johnxjust ask here15:58
Turrican_johnx: hehe, I'll try :P15:58
johnxeveryone is pretty friendly :)15:58
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Turrican_wow, an unix-like channel friendly ?15:59
Turrican_nokia do miracles =)15:59
Turrican_i'm also lame with the english :P16:00
johnxthat's fine. So am I and it's my native language :D16:01
Turrican_i should find an italian channel about NITs16:01
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unixSnobcaveat: you might be the only one in it16:02
Turrican_ehehe, a little poor :P16:02
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Turrican_anyway, i think i have to learn the basic information about n800 before asking here another lame question, I fear that sooner or later someone will ban me :P16:04
Turrican_a good question16:04
johnxthe worst we'll do is point you at google or tell you to RTFM :)16:05
Turrican_is there any tool for linux/win to download the entiry reposity of
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Turrican_johnx: yeah, is exactly what i mean :P16:05
johnxyou could use wget on linux or any good downloader on windows16:05
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Turrican_johnx: yep, but downloading by hands required too many time16:06
johnxah yes, so that's why you download recursively :)16:07
johnxsomething like wget -l 5 -r
johnxbut you'll want to limit it to certain paths16:07
johnxman wget and look at --include-directories16:08
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Turrican_wow, I did not know that wget could download recursively16:08
johnxit just walks through a page of html and follows all the links :)16:09
johnxuse --include-directories to tell it where to go16:09
Turrican_the probability of being banned is lifted? =)16:09
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Turrican_uhm, lifted = increased16:10
johnxwe don't ban people unless they're just hear to troll16:10
johnxwe may laugh if you ask a silly question though :D16:10
Turrican_I'm an Amiga/Pegasos user, so trolling here is a litte hard :P16:11
johnxthen you should be fine16:12
Turrican_johnx: tnx so much for the info, i have to go away now16:13
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tfujakhi there, anyone succeeded with firefox Thumb build on maemo?16:48
johnxis that fennec or minefield?16:49
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tfujakno matter, the core is the same, they differ at xul level, don't they?16:50
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johnxI dunno. All I know is there are builds for each on
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tfujakI'll chech that, thanks johnx16:51
tfujakis it http iirc, or sth else?16:52
johnxer, sorry, didn't type it right16:52
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tfujakright, works now :)16:53
mbufGtkCellRenderer cannot be displayed when used with hildon framework? it doesn't show up in the output, only GtkListStore contents are getting displayed16:54
inzmbuf, erm?16:55
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mbufinz, sorry, erm?16:56
inzmbuf, I didn't understand what you were asking16:56
mbufinz, for this example, ; the table headers are not displayed, only the table data are getting displayed16:57
inzmbuf, ahh, the headers aren't the cell renderers16:57
mbufinz, i see; but, running them standalone displays the table column headers16:58
mbufinz, on the desktop gtk16:58
mbufinz, is there any way, i can get those to be displayed?16:59
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SDuensinMorning gang.16:59
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SDuensinCan I connect an N800 to a Windows box and have it appear as a large flash drive?  I want to use mine to move a large file from one PC to another.17:00
glassisn't that default behavior of the usb port still?17:00
mbufSDuensin, yes; it is the default behavior17:00
glassacting as a card reader for the memorycard thats in it17:01
inzmbuf, have you tried calling gtk_tree_view_set_headers_visible(yout_tree_view, TRUE);17:01
SDuensinHmm.  Mine tried to connect as a computer.  Lemme try it again.  :-)17:01
mbufinz, will try now17:01
mbufinz, awesome! thanks17:02
SDuensinAh.  Gotta turn it on and *then* plug it in.  :-)17:02
* mbuf needs to get over the dirty habit of asking on IRC without checking the APIs17:03
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inzmbuf, devhelp is your friend17:05
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mbufinz, i see17:05
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JaffaMorning all from JavaOne17:33
johnxmornin' :)17:33
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johnxthank you RST38h for that bit of randomness O_o17:38
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unixSnobJaffa - you work for Sun?17:38
* unixSnob contratulates jaska for surviving the RiF17:39
JaffaunixSnob: Nope, work for a small software house/consultancy in London. Here entirely for fun, err, I mean work *cough*17:41
* unixSnob wonders whether to dump more money into Sun stock, while it's down17:43
Khertansomeone know a python script that sync a local folder to an ftp directory ?17:43
jottJaffa: remember to bug the arm folks about jazelle ;)17:44
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unixSnobJaffa: So you contribute to the JavaOne project.. or you're using it?17:44
johnxKhertan, ftp is your only access?17:44
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unixSnobKhertan: Write a python script that simply calls wget ;)17:45
Stskeepsor wput17:46
johnxor curl17:46
jottor import ftplib17:47
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Khertanyes of course i can write it ...17:49
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Khertanbut i ask before ... to not recreate the wheel17:49
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lirakis_worki keep trying to install "modest" email client on my N810 but it always fails to install saying there are several applications missing that are required.  libalarm > 0.5.18, libhildonfm >  ....etc.18:01
lirakis_workam i missing a repo or some thing?18:01
sp3000how and on what os rel?18:01
lirakis_worksp3000: os2008 v 1.2007.42-19 (default from out of the box) ... and i just went to the maemo garage page for modest and clicked "install now" on my n81018:03
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sp3000I have os2008 2007.51, 034\!0" 85 4317843" 5\!518:04
sp3000, perhaps it requires that18:04
* sp3000 left fn on :)18:05
lirakis_worklike i said.. this is whatever it came with .. i havent done any system "updates"18:05
lirakis_workis there a way to do an OS update ?18:05
lirakis_workwhen i check for updates .. it just says the map application has an update.. but when i say ok.. it says it will break stuff and it wont update18:06
johnxare you using linux, mac os x or windows on your desktop/laptop?18:06
sp3000"the latest  OS2008" says the page, yeah18:06
lirakis_workjohnx: linux18:06
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johnxhere you are:
sp3000lirakis_work: os update is reflash atm unfortunately18:06
lirakis_worksp3000: hmm that sucks18:06
johnxuse the backup tool first and backup anything you can't live with out by hand18:07
johnxyeah, a separate /home partition would have been nice, but it's never easy to figure out the right split for something like that18:07
lirakis_workjohnx: arlight .. so .. before i go reflashing everything18:08
lirakis_workjohnx: do you think this will solve my "problem"18:08
lirakis_workabout not being able to install modest email18:08
johnxof the right versions not being available? I can check for you18:08
johnxif you open x terminal and type apt-cache policy libalarm and pastebin the results I can compare it to mine and we can see if the upgraded libalarm between your OS release and the latest one18:09
lirakis_workjohnx: .. okay one minute18:10
johnxit'll take me a minute too, Have to boot my N800 up18:10
lirakis_workit says "unable to locate package libalarm"18:11
johnxok, try with libhildonfm18:11
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johnxah, I see. try with libalarm018:13
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johnxlirakis_work, for libalarm0 I see version 0.5.18 installed, and for libhildonfm2 I see 1:1.9.49 installed18:16
johnxyes, I think the versions I have came with the new OS release18:17
lirakis_workjohnx: soo.. what does that mean for me?18:17
lirakis_workoh ok18:17
johnxI think I would remember if I updated core system stuff like that by hand18:17
lirakis_workjohnx: alright.. kinda sux but (shrug) .. i just want to get mail setup to play nice with gmail ... im surprised that gmail imap is so jacked with the default mail client18:18
johnxthe default client is jacked. full stop.18:18
lirakis_workjohnx: so would you reccomend claws or modest?18:18
johnxI like modest18:19
lirakis_workor some thing else18:19
johnxnice big finger friendly labels18:19
lirakis_workcool .. that sounds good to me18:19
johnxif you need the features in claws then go for it, but definitely try modest first18:19
lirakis_workjohnx: i appreciate your help.. i will work towards doing a firmware update18:19
johnxwhen you flash the new OS, don't even give the default email client your account info, otherwise it will lork in the background taking up CPU time18:20
lirakis_workjohnx: ooo18:20
lirakis_workjohnx: good tip18:20
johnxthe next release Nokia does will make modest the builtin email client (and also allow updates without a reflash)18:21
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lirakis_workjohnx: .. now do you know if i can reflash to the latest?18:22
lirakis_workor do i need to do sequential updates?18:22
johnxreflash directly to the latest18:22
lirakis_workok great18:22
johnxeach flash is a complete system18:22
johnxeven replaces parts it doesn't need to :)18:23
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jottotoh one could easily write a script that extracts / dpkg-repacks all packages in an image and put the stuff on a local repository and get "seamless updates" right now ;)18:25
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johnxand maybe it would even work if they actually designed the .deb packages with upgrading in mind :)18:26
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jottheh are there really packages with same version but different content?18:27
johnxI don't mean that. I mean handling configuration changes and such18:27
jottdpkg --purge :p18:28
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lirakis_workdoes anyone know the path to "Documents, Games, Etc..."18:32
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lirakis_workim trying to find it... the dir structure is quite bizzare18:32
Cptnodegardno but im sure its paved with good intentions18:32
Cptnodegard(sorry bad pun)18:32
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johnx"Documents" is /home/user/MyDocs/.documents18:33
johnxGames and Audio are both other hidden directories under MyDocs18:33
lirakis_workjohnx: great thanks18:34
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scibotHi, going to see if I can get google gears working offline.18:44
johnxscibot, Have you seen the stuff on itt about it?18:44
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scibotYep, I think I might know a work around for the browser.18:45
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johnxah, very cool18:45
scibotIt's a hunch at the moment, I just need my n800 to finish some downloads before I start playing with offline mode. =P18:46
scibotI would really like to get Remember the Milk and Google Docs working offline. =)18:51
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scibotOkay testing.19:12
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scibotShit, didn't work. =/19:15
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Navilibfakeroot: connect: Connection timed out <- wtf?19:31
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DaemonikJust got a Nokia N810, seeing I have to use the flasher here. Why can't this thing apt-get dist-upgrade? What is the flasher doing that apt-get dist-upgrade couldn't do?19:34
Fatalupgrade kernel and whatnot19:35
sp3000provide a known state :)19:35
johnxalso, nokia probably hasn't designed .deb packages with upgrading in mind.19:35
johnxthey plan to have apt-get upgrades in the next release19:35
scibotjohnx, Got it working,
Fataljohnx: they do? sweet19:36
johnxah, the ol' dummyiap19:36
scibotI was hoping for a cleaner solution than that, but it's there if people need it. =/19:36
johnxFatal, yeah "Seamless software upgrade" or some such buzzword19:36
Fatalhaha, got to love new buzzwords for old known concepts19:37
NaviWeb 2.0! Ajax!19:37
Fatalyou forgot dhtml19:37
NaviAh, right19:38
johnxdoes anyone use dhtml these days?19:38
NaviThat one died out a while ago19:38
johnxyeah, I saw a neat demo once, but I guess it never developed the momentum that the latest AJAX craze has19:38
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sp3000Fatal: why, what would you call it :)19:40
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johnx"you don't have to $%&$ing reflash your tablet everyime you change something"-upgrades19:41
johnxrolls off the tongue, no?19:41
Fatalsp3000: "Fully automated manual upgrade procedure using apt or whatever or maybe not<tm>"19:42
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sp3000but those are longer19:43
Naviy wun bc build19:43
Navii needs teh browser engine svn19:43
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johnxah, great, you just used the less-than sign quota for the whole month :/19:44
johnxsp3000, it doesn't really need a buzzword is the problem...19:44
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NaviWoo, less than!19:44
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sp3000yeah, we'll have to :!<= until june19:45
* johnx loves aptitude19:45
sp3000:!>= even19:45
* Navi hates APT in general19:47
sp3000johnx: meh, things need names, that one is reasonably concise and descriptive given the context of flashable updates19:47
johnxyeah, it's fine. It's just that it doesn't have a name anywhere else because it's what people expect19:47
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NaviWhy am I getting timeouts with libfakeroot in sb?19:49
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johnxsee if your machine's loopback iface is up?19:51
johnxifconfig lo19:51
NaviIt's up19:52
scibotjohnx, Okay works fine, I use the DummyIAP and and it does its thing, after that I switch into offline mode to minimise battery usage.19:52
scibotDon't need bluetooth running otherwise.19:52
johnxscibot, that's pretty cool19:52
johnxNavi, I don't know, then19:52
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Navihuh, can't even ping myself19:53
scibotjohnx, It's a bit of a pain and I can't wait for them to sort it out properly, but for now that means I can use it anywhere provided I'm ready to spend 10 seconds selecting the DEFAULT connection.19:53
Navireboot it is19:53
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scibotjohnx, Should I add that to the latest google gears thread?19:54
johnxthat would probably be nice19:54
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WorkingOnWisehas here anyone put Ubuntu Hardy on their N8x0?20:01
anidel:) I just put it on my laptop and desktop box.. give me time :p20:02
johnxmaybe that guy who posted the page about it?20:02
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johnxah, hardy. Someone compiled the feisty packages I believe20:02
johnxand debian runs of course20:02
johnxwhat were you looking for in hardy (out of curiosity)?20:02
WorkingOnWisemy bad....I meant gutsy.... hardy is not done yet....20:03
WorkingOnWisei want a good pim, so I want to see how well evolution is on the it20:03
NaviWoo, bc installed20:03
Navijohnx, a lot of people on ITT have this misconception.20:04
Naviit's not nice to laugh :(20:04
johnxI'm thinking evolution will be a little starved for RAM20:04
johnxnah, I'm laughing at how big of an app evolution is for a mail client and the thought of subjecting an innocent n8x0 to it20:04
WorkingOnWisei think your right, but I'd like to see. there has GOT to a reasonable pim for this thing.20:04
johnxWorkingOnWise, sorry to laugh :|20:05
NaviYou're so mean20:05
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NaviThe new pimlico stuff needs to be ported over20:05
Navisomeone do that while I sleep20:05
johnxthere's newer stuff than what we have?20:05
NaviThey split it into backend/frontend20:06
johnxit needs hildonization? or what?20:06
Naviand none of that stuff has been ported ovah20:06
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Navithe stuff that we have now isn't being worked on :/20:06
Navihildonization, I guess20:07
scibotI want to try Google Docs, but I think I might've set it to deny it from using google gears...20:07
scibotAnyone know how to change that?20:07
johnxWorkingOnWise, gene cash's todo and calend seem nice20:08
WorkingOnWisesorry for the lag. getting coffee.20:08
johnxno problem. I understand the need for coffee20:09
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WorkingOnWisein a perfect world, is what I want is a pim that has great contact management and cal functions, that will at least import/export clean standard files soi can manually sync. is what i have seen so far is some nice things that dont integrate well with each other at all....20:10
WorkingOnWisetodo would be great, but that is pretty easy to manage on multiple machines.20:11
johnxintegration looks like the sticking point in all this stuff :/20:11
WorkingOnWisetranslate - Evolution on the IT :D20:11
WorkingOnWiseit really is20:12
johnxyou really like this idea, huh?20:12
WorkingOnWisethe idea of evolution on the IT?20:12
johnxI'll tell you what, while I'm working on debian, I'll install it and take a screenshot, fair enough?20:12
WorkingOnWiseok. then we know howmuch of a dogit really ishuh!20:14
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johnxmainly the problem will be screen real estate and memory usage20:15
johnx(I think)20:15
WorkingOnWiseyeah. i just shrank the evolution window down to 800x480. the interface would need some changes for that small a screen20:17
johnxrun top and tell me about the memory usage...20:17
WorkingOnWise50MB for the 3 components20:19
johnxhey, that's not that bad20:19
johnxI thought it would be far worse20:19
WorkingOnWisei wasexpecting 100+20:19
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johnxyeah, me too20:19
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WorkingOnWiseone more reason tolove evolution20:20
johnxso if you can tolerate it being squished up with tiny fonts, than sure it'll be runnable in debian20:20
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WorkingOnWisei'll tel you what. If I have evolution runable on my 800, I'd learn what I need to tweak the interface so its better on the IT. maybe a mini-forkovevolution.20:21
WorkingOnWisedarn crumbs under my space bar!!!20:22
WorkingOnWiseoh for the want of crumbless bread!20:22
johnxalright, well, I'll do a new Debian release sometime in the next couple weeks and you can have evolution :)20:22
konttoriBTW: The new seamless updates are debian package based updates20:23
Navijohnx is evolving!20:23
* Navi hums the Pokemon evolution song20:23
konttoriAnd it works really well.20:23
WorkingOnWiseyou'd be my HERO johnx!!!!20:23
scibotjohnx, Well at least that sorts out which todo list application I'll be using.20:23
Navikonttori, cool20:23
johnxWorkingOnWise, don't get your hopes up. Debian still has a *long* way to go in usability on the n8x020:23
johnxbut it will give you a good idea of how evolution would perform if you just did a straight compile for os200820:24
WorkingOnWiseshhh....dont dash me so fast man! lemme bask in the false glory!!!!!20:24
konttoriI'm very much hoping you guys will enjoy them. Well, also the update notification, I'm really especially looking forward to see how much that helps the developers lives20:24
NaviYay, that stoopid microb svn is building (finally)20:24
johnxkonttori, that sounds really nice20:24
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konttorijohnx: I would also like to know of the evolution speed.20:30
johnxso would I20:30
konttoriBy the way, the addressbook on maemo is using the same backend for contacts as evolution is (EDS)20:30
johnxI'll try it once this apt-get upgrade finishes and I can make a quick rsync20:30
WorkingOnWisejust sat back down...I wasnt laughing at you konttori a few mins ago there20:30
konttoriWorkingOnWise: good for you!20:30
johnxkonttori, so does that give us the possibility of syncing it without too much pain20:31
Navikonttori, ooh20:31
Navisyncevolution ftw20:31
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konttorijohnx: Well, you should be able to use any eds based upstream syncing suites to do the job20:32
konttoriNavi: indeed20:32
konttoriAnyway, so if you find such things, compile, pack and launch to the people. I'm sure they will be appreciated20:32
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Naviyou can do the same with pimlico, but I'm much too lazy to try it myself20:32
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johnxthat really doesn't sound that hard. I'm surprised no one has done it yet...20:32
konttorior, you can just do the syncing yourself on python using the python abook libraries20:33
Navijohnx, probably isn't20:33
konttorishould not be too hard that way (e.g. google syncing)20:33
NaviI'll give it a go after exam week is over20:33
NaviTwo more exams and this semester is over, woo \o/20:33
johnxfun, fun20:34
RST38hNavi: what school?20:34
NaviUT @ Arlington20:34
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NaviI should hold back on the personal information more.20:35
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nelsonwhy are my gmail IM's coming in on both my desktop and my n810?20:38
nelsonI'm marked as away on my n810.20:39
NaviThat's what it does.20:39
nelsonIs the IM client on the n810 broken?20:39
nelsonOr is it simply buggy?20:39
NaviYou usually stop getting IMs on one when you respond on the other20:39
nelsonI've responded from the desktop.20:39
nelsonand anyway, if I'm 'away', why should I be getting more than one IM notification?20:40
* Navi shrugs20:40
nelsonseems to me like it should ping me once per person if I'm away, and shut up after that.20:40
nelsonanyway, it's being very annoying.20:40
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johnxwhat's the behavior on the desktop version?20:40
NaviProbably not a bug, rather just a problem in implementation.20:40
johnxyou could file an enhancement request20:41
nelsonnevermind, I'll just turn my n810 off.20:41
johnxit won't get fixed unless you tell someone about it...20:41
NaviEnhancement request is the best...20:41
nelsonjohnx: right, because it's not open source.20:42
johnxer, is this rtcomm beta?20:42
johnxor something else?20:42
crashanddieoh, btw, ever had the issue that the n810 just doesn't see a wifi network ?20:42
Robot101nelson: it's controlled by the client on the remote end20:42
crashanddielike, it picks up 5 other networks, but is unable to see the access point 5ft away from ya ?20:43
Robot101the usual behaviour is every resource receives the messages, until one replies, in which case a well-behaved client will reply to just that client20:43
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Navicrashanddie, never20:43
Robot101awayness isn't a factor, unless you separately (by setting a negative priority) indicate you don't want to receive messages20:44
johnxnelson, what does that link have to do with, btw?20:44
nelsonjohnx: just because you build your software with open source bits, if it's proprietary, it'll still suck.20:44
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Robot101the XMPP behaviour of the N810's IM client is entirely determined by an open source component20:45
crashanddiesucky software != proprietary software20:45
johnxnelson, but you just linked to a random article on your own blog complaining about the usability of closed source stuff. Am I missing something?20:45
nelsonRobot101: hmmm..... so it sounds like it's gtalk that's screwing up.20:45
NaviWhere the messages are sent is completely server-side anyways.20:45
Robot101nelson: what client is the one that's messaging you? and do you keep receiving duplicated messages even after you've replied?20:45
johnxand nelson, the part of rtcomm that handles gtalk stuff is probably open source...20:46
nelsonRobot101: gmail and ... yes.20:46
Navijohnx, libpurple is open20:46
Robot101it doesn't use libpurple on the device by default20:46
Robot101telepathy is used, and it's entirely open source20:46
Robot101you can add a telepathy backend which uses libpurple if you wish20:46
Robot101nelson: weird, I'd have expected gmail to get it right20:47
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Robot101nelson: that's an issue on their end though, there's a simple trick which is to direct replies to the last resource you received messages from, which we do.20:47
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NaviIt got it right the last time I tried it20:47
Navi(months ago)20:47
nelsonso it looks like the problem is in gtalk, then.  oh well.  Have to get back to the issue I was being im'ed about, thanks all.20:49
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Navizomg, gp2x has a paint program now.21:35
johnxdo you have a gp2x?21:36
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NaviNot anymore21:36
Naviit's for the F200s anyways21:36
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zapWhat is the "HOME" button on N810?22:14
kulveit's the upper one in the left side (left on the display, not in the keyboard)22:15
zapthe one with a square and a hook22:16
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Cptnodegardn800 supports bt ssp yes?23:40
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