IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2008-05-04

lcukive been having trouble locally finding *any* mini cards00:00
NullM0demwhat are the better 8 gb cards?00:00
GrackleThe micro to mini converter only extends the back end of the card to make it physically longer, actually00:00
lcukthe ones with a high class rating00:00
BlafaselDamn.. Battlestar Galactica is really great.00:00
Gracklewhee Blafasel, yes it is00:00
lcukshhhhhhh Blafasel i havent seen this last extended bit00:00
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Blafasellcuk: Hm? I'm watching the second season right now. Probably nothing new for you ;)00:02
lcukwell thats ok then00:02
BlafaselThe third isn't even available here, yet. I've to admit that I watch the dubbed/localized version so far.00:03
lcukdid you know the cylons are .....00:03
lcuk... robots00:03
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BlafaselMaybe I'll switch to english afterwards.00:03
Blafasellcuk: No shit! ;)00:03
lcukwell they do, but its castrol gtx00:03
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lcukif i tried using sudo when im already logged in as root it gives a strange message00:09
lcuk"root is not in the sudoers file.  This incident will be reported."00:09
lcukwho will it be reported to?00:10
qwerty12_N800linux police00:10
lcukoh crap!00:10
GrackleDeb & Ian are going to come and smack you00:10
qwerty12_N800sentenced to lifetime of windows 95 :p00:10
qwerty12_N800Tux will beat u up 1st00:11
KotCzarnywith a handbook from win 2.x00:11
lcukwin95 aint that bad :) runs efficiently on lots of hardware, has great compatability - i thought it was meant to be a punishment00:11
KotCzarnygreat compatibility?00:11
KotCzarnyusb excluded00:11
lcukyer i can run msdos programs00:11
qwerty12_N800aint bad?00:11
lcukor win 3.1 ones00:11
lcukor win95 ones00:11
derfIt is extremely compatible with itself.00:12
KotCzarnyany good win3.1 or dos programs?00:12
lcukGTA original00:12
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KotCzarnynever heard of00:12
qwerty12_N800gta 1 works  in xp00:12
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Blafasel;) I'm curious about GTA IV00:12
qwerty12_N800I have wild metal country on cd somewhere00:13
lcuknot very well - if i remember rightly, it has to be put in compatability mode for : win 9500:13
lcukhalf life original will run nicely on '9500:13
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qwerty12_N80095 v ME? hmm...00:13
lcukno-one here will convince me that w95 is bad :)00:13
KotCzarnyyeah, it even ran on 8mb machines00:14
lcuk386 required i believe00:14
KotCzarnythat i'm not sure00:14
lcukyou oculdnt do it on 286 because of some hardare memory instruction i think00:15
KotCzarnySystem requirements for installing Windows 95:00:15
KotCzarnyPersonal computer with a 386DX or higher processor (486 recommended)00:15
KotCzarny4 megabytes (MB) of memory (8 MB recommended)00:15
KotCzarnywhooo hoo00:15
qwerty12_N800I don't mind w98 se, I have quite a few mods for  it in cd00:15
jott winxp runs on 8mhz with 20mb ram ;)00:16
KotCzarnymore like 'crawls00:16
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lcukjott i was sure i read something about even less, and it taking something like 18 hours to fully boot00:17
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qwerty12_N800meh, I'd sooner run linux if I had machine like that00:17
lcukit might have been this report here00:18
* lcuk thinks it looks familiar00:18
lcukyou would be best running the OS you got with the machine of that speed00:19
lcuki think it would be just as difficult to get linux running smoothly on something that restricted00:19
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jottlcuk: wrong. linux with full desktop maybe.00:20
qwerty12_N800mplayer with vidix etc is nice, I could live using console.00:20
lcukyer - ive seen console linux distros setup on floppies, but ive not seen full gui in floppy disk sized space (ie amiga workbench beating)00:21
qwerty12_N800looking at amiga gui, i'd prefer console... :p00:22
lcukamiga had both :) i, for one, prefered an interactive gui00:22
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KotCzarnyheh, xp on 8mhz cpu00:26
KotCzarnyThe boottime of this system is extremly long, 30 minutes! After 13 minutes you can see the first icons, but there are 17 minutes more, where you can do nothing, before you can start "working".00:26
qwerty12_N800I get called perv lol00:27
qwerty12_N800 I rate that winhistory page because it has computer porn.00:29
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evaryontare there any applications that would let me write (literally) a bunch of text then let the OCR software parse my handwriting?00:38
BlafaselWorking for an OCR company I somehow still think that this is a baaaad idea ;)00:38
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lcukyou can enable handwriting recognition directly00:38
term-sigyes, Abby ;>00:38
Cptnodegardhandwriting rec is so buggy you might as well try smoke signals00:39
BlafaselAbby? The engine?00:39
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lcukits worth at least TRYING it, some people have already trained their computer handwriting to be recognisable00:40
elbI had decent luck with it00:40
elbit wasn't great, but it was OK00:41
BlafaselHmm.. We sell Abby (among others) and it is _very_ expensive. Is there a way to use it for free/personal?00:41
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evaryontI've gotten the builtin OCR engine to a 75-85% sucess rate00:42
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evaryont'E' is still a problem, for me. F is just fine :)00:43
lcukl and t got mixed up for me with no way to work around it00:43
evaryontheh. l and 1 get mixed up for me. I sometimes don't cross my t fully, so it just becomes a space. Nothing much, just bksp & t, correctly00:44
lcukfor me i basically never cross t's - i go back over the document afterwards filling in - and even when i completely disabled all variations of l and tried to train t it told me it was too similar to l00:45
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lcuki am willing to write my l completely differently to a t..  i do anyway.00:46
evaryontalso, how do I get mmpc installed? It needs libglade2, but I haven't found it anywhere in the repos. I took the red pill already00:46
evaryontno luck yet :/00:46
qwerty12_N800I think it's in extras-devel00:46
lcukglade the gui designer?00:46
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evaryontlcuk: yes00:47
evaryontqwerty12_N800: how do I enable? :)00:48
lcukive seen khertan with glade - he never released it, but made a mistake and posted a screenshot under one of his other projects00:48
lcukif you can't find it anywhere might be an idea to try and see how far he went00:49
qwerty12_N800Go to and do a search with the browser for testing maemo extras and click the install button.00:49
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qwerty12_N800lcuk, He doesn't want the program, just the library from I can tell, personal menu and mmpc use  it :)00:50
AStormI'm now running pure alsa 2/o drawbacks00:50
AStormit's an mplayer bug00:51
AStormmultimediad has no problem w/o esd00:51
AStormeven uses slightly less cpu00:51
AStormbtw, canola now uses mplayer for default ogg playback00:52
qwerty12_N800Check to see if any alsa bugs were fixed in mplayer rc2 (serge's builds use rc1)00:52
AStormi'm fairly sure either aep dsp00:52
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AStormor esd introduce bass change00:52
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AStormit's due to clipping00:54
AStormyep, just got it on clean config00:54
AStormwith a loud piece00:54
AStormif volume (canola or esd) is high, clipping adds bass with these phones00:54
AStormI lose :P00:55
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AStormesd probably makes clipping more likely (as it is crud)00:55
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AStormok, now I need dmix with dsp accel :P00:56
AStormand dsnoop too00:57
evaryont_qwerty12_N800: thanks a lot. Question: Are you really chatting on IRC on your n800? :)00:57
AStormevaryont_: I am on N810 now00:57
AStormok, I need real alsa-utils00:58
AStormfor testing00:58
AStormKotCzarny: care to build alsa-utils for me?00:59
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AStormI still need to check what this "aep" dsp task is01:00
KotCzarnyif it builds without further tweaking01:00
AStormAudio Enhancement Process or wtf?01:00
* shackan votes for wtf01:01
AStormwho has a dsp decompiler?01:01
AStormuhm, disassembler01:01
shackanTI, most probably01:01
AStormNDAized I guess01:01
AStormNokia could answer what the thing is01:02
AStormit's 100% not related to wifi01:02
AStormmaybe camera?01:02
KotCzarnyhow can i get specific version from debian repo?01:04
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jottKotCzarny: apt-get install package=version01:07
KotCzarnywill it work for sources too?01:08
jotti think so.01:08
AStormthe aep is not related to camera01:09
KotCzarnydpkg-gencontrol: error: current build architecture armel does not appear in package's list01:09
jottyou could always do "dget -x http://foo/package.dsc"01:09
KotCzarnyjott: that's a nice hint, thank you :)01:10
KotCzarnyright now i've been downloading all three files by hand01:11
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KotCzarnyastorm: built01:14
KotCzarnyit's in usual dir01:14
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AStormkulve: uhoh01:16
AStormI'm getting massive clipping with libvorbisidec01:17
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AStormon some tracks01:17
AStormmaybe it's replaygain?01:17
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AStormnot on other tracks though01:18
AStormeven as loud or louder01:18
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AStormcan't reproduce anymore01:21
KotCzarnypoor astorm..01:21
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AStormok, now got it on another track01:21
AStormthis might be canola bug01:21
AStormor multimediad01:22
AStormvs vorbis01:23
AStormI'll see if it happens on mp3 too01:23
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evaryont_has anyone had fun with PocketSphinx and configuring it?01:32
AStormhmm, doesn't happen on mp301:33
Fatalhaving problem finding an application I used on a 770, was a paint program on a huge canvas where you zoomed in and out to draw with better details.. don't know how to describe it, was made by some gimp guys if memory serves.01:33
evaryont_Fatal: OS2008's Sketch seems to fit that description01:34
AStormsounds like Sketch01:34
AStormI'd like that resizing canvas in maemoopad01:34
infobotAStorm meant: I'd like that resizing canvas in maemopad01:35
evaryont_lol infobot ^^01:35
AStormya, the uber-note proggie01:35
Fatalyes, found it, horizon <301:35
evaryont_gr, extras-devel doesn't have libglade2 available through Application Manager01:36
AStormmaemopad+ actually01:36
evaryont_AStorm: syncing possible?01:36
AStormnot sure01:36
AStormit stores data in small sqlite dbs01:36
infobotKotCzarny meant: ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo01:37
evaryont_hm. not the best, but I can make that sync with Skittit :)01:37
Cptnodegards/hmm/Cptnodegard meant: Cptnodegard meant: Cptnodegard meant: Cptnodegard meant:01:38
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KotCzarnyfail? :P01:38
infobotwell, epic is an opensource Perl IDE for the Eclipse platform.01:38
AStormunterminated command01:38
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, fail is Sorry, $1, you have failed.01:38
KotCzarnyepic is an ircii clone :P01:38
AStorm~fail infobot01:38
infobotinfobot, you Fail!01:39
Fataldamn, seems horizon hasn't had any development since 770 :/ oh well :D source is still there \o/01:39
AStormsure yeah01:39
evaryont_Cptnodegard: forgot the ending / ;)01:39
Cptnodegardsomeone should make a irc scipt counting the words 770, n800 and n810 and see which one is spoken most01:39
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Cptnodegards/oic/Cptnodegard meant: Cptnodegard meant: Cptnodegard meant: Cptnodegard meant:/01:40
infobotCptnodegard meant: Cptnodegard meant: Cptnodegard meant: Cptnodegard meant: Cptnodegard meant:01:40
evaryont_Cptnodegard: that would be interesting. What channels should I monitor with that script? ;)01:40
AStormI prefer SU-1801:40
* Cptnodegard is happy01:40
Cptnodegardthere are more channels than this? and canola....01:40
* Cptnodegard whois'es people01:40
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evaryont_how do I become root on n800/OS2008?01:42
AStormstupid cpu sched, rarely locks the key that is currently pressed01:42
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AStormknown issue of <2.6.2301:42
evaryont_i wanna apt-get01:45
BabelOevaryont_: sudo gainroot01:45
AStormthat will work in r&d mode01:45
evaryont_BabelO: any pkg needed beforehand?01:45
AStormor after haxx01:45
evaryont_yay, it works01:45
evaryont_BabelO: thanks a lot :)01:45
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evaryont_AStorm: r&d == "red pill mode"?01:46
AStormthe mode enabled with linux flasher util01:46
AStormit's just a bit in some flash01:47
AStormdefault gainroot checks for it01:47
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AStormit also sports a nicer bootup logo :P01:47
AStorm(and optionally serial console)01:47
evaryont_lol. Easy for moderate linux power user to use? Safe? Is it even useful?01:50
benhAStorm: how do you hookup the serial console ?01:50
benhAStorm: have to open the device to get to the header or there's a "trick" >01:51
lcukwhats the simplest way to get a reminder flashing up at me on the 810, is there an "at" type command which i can say "in 15m say 'bath ready'"     or similar?01:51
lcukand i dont mean the built in alarm01:51
lcukits not quick to configure, its not touch friendly01:52
lcukactually it is good enough..01:53
* lcuk blushes and runs away01:53
AStormbenh: the pins are inside the device01:53
AStormlcuk: there's alarmd01:53
AStormand that clock proggy01:53
benhAStorm: ok, thx.. looks like I won't do that for now then01:54
AStormalso, gpe-calendsr has reminders01:54
benhkernel hackers always look for serial ports :-)01:54
AStormbenh: :)01:54
evaryont_AStorm: is the serial cosole accessible without opening the device? :)01:54
AStormevaryont_: yes, by removing the battery01:54
benhAStorm: ah, that changes the picture then01:54
AStormyou'd need to build a connector to the battery and serial port01:55
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benhAStorm: there's an adapter one can order somewhere or it's do-it-yourself ?01:55
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evaryont_AStorm: ah. I was wondering how you'd use both. Need power for the serial, obviously..01:55
benhbah, if I toy with the kernel, I can do so with the power plugged01:55
lcukyou could do it with a cable and have the battery itself keeping it in place01:55
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benhit's the 7 metallic 'dots' under the battery ?01:56
evaryont_how do I get my n800's LAN IP? How do I make sure it's in the same subnet as my desktop computers?01:57
benhan adapter for that without soldering looks like a pain in the neck... get to fit the slot perfectly to reach the contacts in the right spot01:57
AStormbenh: yes01:57
BlafaselAny opinion on that "myhava" advertisement on itt?01:57
benhoh well, we'll see if I ever toy with the kernel01:57
AStormno, an adapter is fairly simple01:57
KotCzarnymaybe some phone adaptor will fit?01:57
benhAStorm: is there a wiki or something ?01:58
KotCzarnyor they have changed the design again?01:58
AStormbenh: dunno01:58
benhI bought this to use it primarily :-) but I might not resist the temptation of hacking it to bits :-)01:58
AStormI'd actually use a tape with dots01:58
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AStormtape that to the board correctly01:58
evaryont_ifconfig nor iwconfig are installed...01:58
benhreally only need 3 wires01:59
AStormand solder the port on another port01:59
AStormevaryont_: they are01:59
AStormgain root01:59
AStormor try /sbin/ifconfig02:00
AStormbenh: 202:00
AStormrx and tx02:00
AStormbut then, hey put a full serial port in, why waste it?02:00
AStormmake a correct "tape" connector02:01
AStorma'la BGA02:01
AStormtape that in and even the battery will fit02:01
benhAStorm: I would take the ground too no ?02:02
AStormwho cares02:02
AStormit's serial :P02:02
benhAStorm: yeah well, it's +/- relative to ... ground :-)02:02
KotCzarnyserial killer02:02
benhAStorm: if it's left floating it won't go far02:02
AStormbenh: actually, 5V02:02
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benhAStorm: it's a TTL serial ?02:03
AStormground is close to 002:03
benhAStorm: I need a max232 ?02:03
AStormit's normal RS23202:03
benhserial is -12/+12 relative to 002:03
AStormlemme check02:03
AStormmight be so02:03
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benhwell, rs232 at least is :-)02:04
AStormI'll check once my shiny new tools arrive02:04
benhthough in practice it looks more like -6/+7 :-)02:04
AStormit's 12V diff02:04
AStorm(at least theoretically)02:04
benhwell, I can tell you for sure about rs232, though it's common for embedded devices not to bother with the voltage conversion02:04
benhand give you TTL (ie. 0...5, or more commonly 0..3)02:04
acydlordugh, i still havent slept02:05
acydlordjust watched 3 movies in a row02:05
AStormacydlord: drink some, you'll fall asleep in no time02:05
acydlordunfortunately i'm out of anything stout enough to put me down02:05
acydlordand im between jobs02:05
benhanyway, I'll start getting the SDK installed, reading on it, and having a look at luserspace :-)02:06
benhI haven't coded anything in userland for ages, might give me a break from kernel02:06
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acydlordi'm hoping that brightkite comes out with a good api02:09
acydlordcause i wanna add it to my location aware crap02:09
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benhhrm... the wlan driver is binary blob ? interesting02:13
benhbtw, while there... any suggestion on a not-too-bad bluetooth kbd that allow reasonable touch-typing ?02:15
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acydlordhas a bit of a learning curve, but it's bomb for one handed typing02:20
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Proteousacydlord you like it?02:28
Proteoustoo bad they are so damn exspensive02:29
acydlordi liked the one i borrowed for awhile02:29
Proteous$150 for a bluetooth one? no thanks02:29
Proteousespecialy something that I might not like02:29
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AStormblah chorded keyboard02:35
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acydlordi want to get a typematrix02:38
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benhnah, something classic & 2 handed for me :-)02:46
benhheh, I have one of those laser projected ones, it's fun 5mn to show off02:47
benhbut not really useable02:47
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evaryont_hm, is openssh on n800/OS2008 a bad choice? I found a bunch of forum posts that I should use bear-something instead of openssh as a ssh server03:15
evaryont_Fatal: lol right, thanks :)03:16
* KotCzarny drops bear on fatal03:16
* Proteous does a barrel roll03:16
Fatalno idea about what'd be the best choice, I'm currently using openssh on my n81003:17
KotCzarnythe only advantage of using dropbear is lower memory footprint03:18
KotCzarnybut it's not that much03:18
evaryont_KotCzarny: eh. OpenSSH on my desktops is really low anyways.03:18
KotCzarny#maemo> but it's not that much03:18
evaryont_Fatal: you don't notice it?03:18
evaryont_KotCzarny: just saw that after I hit enter :)03:18
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* evaryont_ goes ahead and installs OpenSSH, which is awesome^awesome03:20
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evaryont_why is /sbin not added to $PATH as a normal user? >:/03:22
KotCzarnybecause it's not meant for user's use03:22
Fatalit's not for a normal user03:22
evaryont_eh, I'm not a normal person? lol I don't see why utils such as ifconfig would be put there though, they are really useful for debugging03:23
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lcuka normal user doesnt debug things03:23
KotCzarnyto actually do anything you would need root anyway03:23
evaryont_eh, true :/03:23
KotCzarnyand root has /sbin in path03:23
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Fatalthat choice has always baffled me, but /sbin/ifconfig works fine as user :)03:24
evaryont_KotCzarny: yes03:24
KotCzarnydefine 'works'03:24
evaryont_Fatal: same here. ifconfig is useful. Oh well :)03:24
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fysajohnx: you seen ?03:59
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Xamuskwhere can I buy a cheap used n800?04:03
SDuensin$219 new on Tiger Direct.04:04
Xamuskthe same price in amazon04:06
Xamuskbut I wish I could buy it cheaper... my resources are pretty low right now04:06
Xamuskand I also wish to buy a bluetooth gps04:07
Xamuskto use it with04:07
SDuensinI saw a $150 on Craigslist in St. Louis.04:10
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evaryont_what's the name of the app that allows a person to take a snapshot from the n800's camera?04:15
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SDuensinI think it's called "Camera" on mine.04:20
SDuensin(I don't have it handy to look - sorry.)04:21
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dick-richardsonburgers on the grill, got 'em perfect :D04:40
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Xamuskhow much does the battery of the N800 lasts in ON state (to read e-books)?04:48
elba long time04:49
elbwith wifi and bluetooth off, at least 5 hours of reading, in my experience04:50
Xamusklong time can be from 1h to 1 year04:50
elboh, wait, I don't know about the N800 -- my numbers are for the N81004:51
Xamusk5h is bad04:53
Xamuskmaybe I should keep my Palm m10004:53
elbat least 5 hours, is what I said, actually04:53
elbbut a Palm almost certainly lasts longer04:53
Xamusktoo bad04:57
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johnxXamusk, yeah...there's not much that runs on batteries as long as a 68k based Palm05:02
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johnxfysa, saw it a while ago05:02
johnxI'm not entirely sure why they're doing old distros first though O_o05:02
Xamusktoo bad I'm not having a stable connection05:02
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evaryontWhat repo is maemo-games-startup in? I'd like to install indtgames but Application Manager can't find it :/05:28
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Proteousdon't know05:35
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joyiousHi there05:41
joyiousI'm facing a problem using N810's mp3sink and amrsink in my own gstreamer media player05:43
joyiousi'm using playbing for auto plug in, but the playbin can not find the mp3sink and amrsink correctly05:44
ProteousI just have a 77005:44
joyiousi thought it's the same in the dsp related sink ?05:44
johnxevaryont, maemo-games-startup is for OS2007. Are you trying to install an old game?05:48
evaryontjohnx: I guess? indtgames depends on it, and I'd like to install it, or do I have to install each of their games seperately?05:48
johnxhuh...odd. I'm getting the same thing here05:49
johnxsorry, I have no idea O_o05:50
evaryontdoes osso-<whatever> provide maemo-games-startup ?05:50
evaryontI think the pkg name would be osso-games-startup05:50
johnxprobably not as apt-get isn't finding it as a valid dependency to install for me05:51
johnxanyways, I'm off to work05:51
johnxgood luck05:51
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evaryontthanks :/05:54
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rafaelhi guys06:22
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rafaelI need a problem with N80006:23
KotCzarnyneed a problem? then throw it06:23
rafaelHowever, I belive that for yours this problem be very little06:23
KotCzarnyhammer could also work06:24
rafaelsimply, I do not entry as Root on Maemo (N800)06:24
KotCzarnyrafael: install ssh-server and do: ssh root@006:24
rafaelI tried, however, it need root to install :S06:25
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rafaelany idea? any link that you can pass to me?06:27
benhis there any negative side effect of enabling RD mode ?06:27
rafaelyeah, however, I should to be anything with error06:28
rafaelI access "aplicatives manager"->"tools"->"aplicatives catalogue"->"new" on web address I write "matrix" and cancel06:30
rafaeland then, I clicked in "red"06:30
benhheh, there's a DSP in the tablet, I didn't even know :-)06:30
benhit's in the omap or it's separate ?06:31
KotCzarnyrafael: r&d mode is NOT red pill mode06:31
rafael:S not?!06:31
benhKotCzarny: what is red pill mode btw ? I enabled r&d with 0xffff to get root etc... I didn't know there also was a red pill mode :-)06:32
rafaelfor this, I don't have a sucess!06:32
KotCzarnybenh: red pill disables the need for packages to have "user/" in "Section:"06:32
KotCzarnyi never used r&d mode06:33
KotCzarnyfor root i use ssh06:33
rafaeland how I can enable R&D mode?06:33
benhKotCzarny: not sure what "having user/ in Section: means but I suppose it has to do with installing some types of packages..06:34
benhheh, interesting06:34
rafaelany quickly answer? (different of "google")06:34
benhreading the docs... it's funny how they insist that you should be using the gstreamer framework for perfs etc...06:34
benhwhile from some quick tests, mplayer for maemo is significantly better/faster than their codec06:34
KotCzarnybanh: it's a nokia's try to comb the packages in app man06:34
benhKotCzarny: I see06:35
benhKotCzarny: thx06:35
benhhas access to the DSP been reverse engineered ? or it's still nokia-provided use only ?06:36
benh(unless I misread the docs)06:36
rafaelI have developed a ODF reader on tournament of programation, however, those devices was all installed :P06:36
KotCzarnygstreamer or write your own task using it dsp compiler06:36
benhok so we do have a dsp compiler etc.. it's not some kind of uber srkit bit06:38
rafaelthanks for this tips dear friends...06:38
benhI haven't toyed with a DSP for ages, I might have fun with it some day06:39
benhwhat kind of DSP is it ?06:39
KotCzarnygoogle it site i guess06:39
KotCzarnyfor omap206:39
rafaelAnybody is Brazilian in here?06:40
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rafaelthanks very much for tips again06:43
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rafaelYou is BR?06:45
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benhhrm... the install.txt for scratchbox/sdk is a bit weak06:48
benhany tip on how to add a user to scratchbox before installing the sdk ?06:48
KotCzarnyjust follow install.txt06:48
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benhKotCzarny: yeah, forgot to use -u to add a user at install time06:49
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benhI suppose I can just reinstall06:49
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pupnikRethinking IP Completely:07:03
pupnikBy  N. Stephan Kinsella  May 1, 200807:04
benhheh, red pill mode makes app mgr pretty useless07:04
ProteousInternet protocal or intelectual property07:04
benhversion fields becomes 80% of the displayed width leaving barely 8 or 9 chars visible of the package name07:04
benh(in full screen !)07:04
* benh goes command line07:04
KotCzarnyit's not red pill, it's b0rken packages07:04
KotCzarnywith veeeeeeery long version info07:04
KotCzarnylike 2006+something+something_other+some_stuff_+weee_loove_to_talk07:05
benhit's annoying that the columns can't be resized tho07:06
benhheh, everybody can't resist making his own music player I see :-)07:06
flatfaceis there one that does gapless playback yet?07:09
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benhheh, there's no pipe sign on the keyboard ! oops07:13
pupnikProteous: intellectual property07:14
pupnikHe's an IP lawyer07:14
pupnikSome stuff i'd never heard before07:14
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konttoriwere you guys able to get the frisky configured for the application manager? ( fysa, johnx)07:17
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dick-richardsonwhat does phonelink do?07:39
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Italodancedick-richardson   sms and call with ur bluetooth07:47
dick-richardsonItalodance: thank you. :)07:47
dick-richardsonanyone know if you can send and receive sms messages w/o a phone?07:48
Italodancedick-richardson  w/o?07:48
KotCzarnydickr: most companies allow you to use www to do it, but it's limited often07:49
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doc|homedick-richardson: clickatell.com07:49
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dick-richardsonthank you!07:50
doc|homealthough those are wholesalers of sms messages, I'm working on something else for less demanding users07:50
doc|homestill much cheaper than telecomms providers07:50
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adam_Where can I find python-pygtksourceview at08:01
dick-richardsonI'm using curl to send post requests to a do i handle special characters?08:01
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adam_Where can I find python-pygtksourceview at?08:05
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scibotCan anyone recommend a task manager for maemo? It doesn't have to be in the todo list style, I'm more looking for personal recommendations.08:15
scibotEven if it's the text editor. =/08:15
dick-richardsonI use top08:16
scibotWhat's that?08:17
dick-richardsonopen up the command line and type 'top'08:17
dick-richardsonbetter yet, install htop08:17
KotCzarnyi think he needs something else08:17
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GrackleThat's a system taks manager, silly.08:17
GrackleHe means a personal task manager.08:17
dick-richardsonI'm incredibly slow. 2 demerits for me08:18
dick-richardsongpe todo is good08:18
flatfaceall of the gpe programs I've tried to install have placed me in dependency hell. could never get them installed properly :/08:20
dick-richardsonflatface: really? I didn't have that problem. you use the repo recommendation?08:21
dick-richardsonhow do you send function keys at the command line? f1-f1008:21
flatfaceCan't remember, I last tried a few months ago. Let me check my repos08:21
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flatfaceI'll try the one you linked, thanks08:22
dick-richardsonnp. :)08:23
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pupnikawesome, zodttd got his pandora08:25
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lcukmy 810 is dead after 7.5 hours idling12:02
lcuk8 hours unplugged12:02
KotCzarnyyou have probably left something running12:02
qwerty12Probably not, battery life on mine sucks.12:02
lcukit happens every single night12:03
lcukfrom reboot it is dead in that time12:03
KotCzarnywhat applets you have?12:03
KotCzarnystatusbar ?12:03
KotCzarnydesktop apps?12:03
lcukyer - and i noted that refreshes every hour12:03
lcukievery second12:03
lcukis that the price i pay for seeing cpu usage..12:03
KotCzarnyi have cpu usage applet too12:03
KotCzarnyand it idles ~8-10 days12:04
lcukmaybe if it saw that machine was locked it should not check12:04
Cptnodegardme too and i get days12:04
KotCzarnycheck your config12:04
lcuki did leave wifi on, but nothing connected (i closed everything at this end)12:04
KotCzarnyit's definitely something running12:04
qwerty12Which CPU applet? The graph one or the load applet (the screenshot one)12:04
KotCzarnywith wifi i get 1-3 days12:04
lcuki know that, but its been running from day 112:04
Cptnodegardyesterday mine almost depleted in hours, because i left it right in the zone where the wifi signal dropped out. it kept reconnecting and disconnecting all the time12:04
lcukload applet12:04
Cptnodegardload applet ftw12:05
lcukcan i change the usage of the lock slider12:05
KotCzarnythat regexp would fail12:05
lcukso when i lock it it turns off weifi+bluetooth12:05
lcukweifi :) cool, new wireless12:05
KotCzarnyyou can enable wifi idle disabling12:05
qwerty12mce may control that lock slider, not sure, I have N800.12:05
KotCzarnyie. if it's not used for 60min it disconnects from ap12:06
Cptnodegardi leave wifi on all the itme... doesnt drain much IMO (at least considering its online in gtalk, refreshing rss etc)12:06
lcukcos thats how i lock it at night - click app menu, close *ahem* fbreader and then slide the lock12:06
KotCzarnystill, you have something running12:06
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KotCzarnymaybe it's locked on performance cpufreq?12:07
lcuki cant even blame it on performance, im working towards running everything on ondemand12:07
qwerty12I wonder if AStorm got CPU_TIMER stats to work in .25, you could run powertop then.12:07
lcuki lowered default res for this reason12:07
Cptnodegardyou might have something that accesses the memory card a lot... that usesa shitload of power12:07
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lcukmy evil genius overlord program is calculating things?12:08
KotCzarnycould be12:08
KotCzarnyrun top and see12:08
lcukbut that is meant to be inconspicuous - its meant to be low power until it takes over the world12:08
lcuki cant its shut down12:09
KotCzarnyif it drains battery before it reaches it's goal..12:09
qwerty12I still wonder if CPU_TIMERSTATS was fixed in .25, because then powertop could be used. My kernel crashes with it built, hrw's kernel works with it but wifi is disabled.12:10
lcukok, so you guys can hold a wifi connection for days what about if i leave a putty session open and run top at opportune moments12:10
lcukwill me holding a putty session open from this computer drain battery much faster12:10
KotCzarnyas long you don't send/receive any data you can even turn off wifi12:10
KotCzarnyand session will stay12:10
lcuki actually think all this is related to my adhoc wifi12:11
KotCzarnycould be12:11
KotCzarnytry setting wifi idle to 60 min.12:11
lcuki would like to switch to try bt network for a while but its too much faffing nw12:12
lcuki did that, most nights i disable wifi totally12:12
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lcuki can get at top and the stats from my own program can't i12:13
qwerty12Does it defeat the purpose of a "port" when you have to include a killing script with it?12:14
lcukif i write my own little program to sleep for a minute, grab all top stats, sleep again etc12:14
KotCzarnylcuk, i think kernel can gather stats all by itself12:14
lcukbut how does it share them with mere mortals?12:15
KotCzarnyi think it's oprofile in kernel12:15
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lcukthat needs recompile of kernel12:15
KotCzarnyget used to recompiling the kernel12:16
qwerty12It's not hard :)12:16
qwerty12Even I can do it.12:16
lcukonce i start down that road i dont know where it will end12:16
qwerty12You don't have to flash the resulting kernel, you can just boot from it one time.12:16
lcukim hoping to do as much as possible within the bounds other people have12:16
lcukbut thats not testing what i have here is it12:17
lcukmy compilation may have other attributes set or compiler optimisations or even just a different compiler - i dont know the full toolchain to produce an identical (barring oprofile) modification12:18
KotCzarnyif you change gcc version12:18
KotCzarnyit changes kernel 'magic'12:18
KotCzarnyso it knows modules are different12:18
KotCzarnymore or less12:19
lcukso i can go and get the full kernel right now i can produce an identical binary to the kernel on my machine12:19
KotCzarnyand refue to load them12:19
KotCzarnysame goes for compilation flags12:19
KotCzarnyie smp, preempt, i68612:19
lcuki686 is useful on this machine ;)12:20
KotCzarnyit was just an example12:20
lcuki know12:20
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lcukhmmm i have been here before12:23
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lcukyup, ive even got the top log script12:26
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lcukwhile true ; do date >> /media/mmc2/toplog.txt ; top -n1 >> /media/mmc2/toplog.txt ; sleep 5 ; done12:27
KotCzarnymount tmpfs somewhere12:28
KotCzarnyand log to it12:28
KotCzarnythat way you will save battery12:28
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lcukbattery is already dying, not an issue. i only left that log running and building stats for a couple of hours last time, ill leave it going this evening12:30
lcukit didnt really show anything though then either12:31
lcuktop was highest cpu abuser for most of the time12:33
* lcuk maybe i should ignore top in the %12:34
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KotCzarnymaybe you should gather stats in some other way?12:36
lcukwell im open to suggestions which dont involve a new kernel12:37
lcukhence me thinking about a little program myself12:37
KotCzarnywhy are you so afraid of new kernel?12:37
qwerty12You can extract original one from the RX44 bin image when you are done.12:38
qwerty12bollox, I hate it when I close sbox accidently.12:40
KotCzarnyi have a script that start sbox for me12:40
KotCzarnyand closes when i'm done with it12:40
qwerty12I used to have one but it got deleted when I reformatted.12:40
qwerty12I jacked the one from the vmware image.12:40
KotCzarnyjust put all the repeated command into a file12:41
lcukchanging the kernel feels like walking into the garage and hearing "[sucking air through teeth]  hmmmm i cant tell why your engine is knocking, lets build you a new one and replace your existing one to find out whats wrong"12:41
KotCzarnylike cat 0 > vdso; mount; sbox-start; sbox-stop; umount; echo 1 > vdso12:41
qwerty12But you can easily change the kernel back.12:41
qwerty12KotCzarny, nice, thanks12:41
KotCzarnythose weren't actual command, more like hint12:42
qwerty12I just keep vdso disabled permanently via sysctl.12:42
qwerty12Ah, I shall use those hints :)12:42
KotCzarnylcuk: i like rotation12:42
KotCzarnyand if you use default config and build kernel in scratchbox, you should get the exact kernel you have on nokia12:43
qwerty12exactamont (in broken French)12:43
KotCzarnyie. make n800_config; make12:43
qwerty12I use nokia_2420_defconfig12:43
lcukdifferent issue, if you want a high performance engine with turbos12:44
KotCzarnythat was also a hint12:44
qwerty12Mine wasn't ;)12:44
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qwerty12:). lcuk: Think of it like this, using nokia_2420_defconfig would produce an identical kernel to the one you already have. So it would be like the engine being the same but with different engine oil etc (I don't have a car btw)12:45
KotCzarnywell, even oil should be the same12:46
qwerty12hehe true :)12:46
qwerty12A speck of dust then :p12:46
* lcuk prefers to just get a stethascope and listen to the current engine to make a clean diagnosis12:46
KotCzarnyit's more like getting a factory that can build the same model12:46
lcukwith an o12:46
KotCzarnythen having factory you can tweak some params12:47
KotCzarnyand produce a little different model12:47
glasslcuk: if you have blueprints and produce a new engine with relatively little electricity....12:47
KotCzarnywith features added/removed12:47
qwerty12lcuk, you can't brick the N810 with a dodgy kernel.12:47
lcuki dont want a new engine :'( i want to find out whats wrong with my current one12:47
glassyou're more likely to find it out from blueprints?12:48
KotCzarnylcuk, but for that having a factory to build modified ones could help diagnosing the differences12:48
glassrather than taking the compiled engine apart12:48
lcukim not afraid of bricking or breaking or anything, im more concerned that ill put oprofile and the problem will go away and ive wasted a day learning how to do it but the core problem remains in the default kernel12:48
KotCzarnyie. add that, see if it runs better/worse12:48
KotCzarnylcuk: default kernel will change with the next os upgrade12:49
KotCzarnyso what's the point of treating it as absolute?12:49
lcukyes fine, ill upgrade it then12:49
qwerty12Go on! :)12:49
glassof course if your stuff has to run on default kernel12:49
KotCzarnybut to have a better kernel at the next upgrade problems should be diagnosed12:49
lcukbut i wont have had to learn extra stuff12:49
KotCzarnyalso, if a simple change can make it run better12:50
qwerty12(I'm interested to learn how to add oprofile btw, so I'll keep a watch on this chan. Last time I tried, I failed)12:50
KotCzarnypeople would do it and swap the default for the better12:50
lcukglass, of course i want my stuff to run on default kernel - i cant expect people to have to change their just to run my code12:50
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glasslcuk: yeah12:50
KotCzarnypeople will do anything if you can convince them it will be better12:51
lcukso far though you 2 havent convinced me12:51
KotCzarnyrotation/xrandr is a good example12:51
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lcukbut what happens when nokia releases an update?12:52
lcukdo they keep r&r?12:52
KotCzarnywho knows12:52
KotCzarnymy bet they will use current -omap branch of kernel12:53
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KotCzarnycurrent in mainstream, not in nokia.com12:53
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qwerty12nah, they won't - it's unofficial community hack so nokia wouldn't support it. But patch is available so it isn't hard to port and apply yourself.12:53
KotCzarnyand i think that patch is already in -omap12:53
KotCzarnythat's the beauty of openness12:54
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lcukso joe blow with his rotating nokia will lose it when nokia releases diablo, they then have to scrabble around to regain a feature.  its not ideal12:54
KotCzarnylcuk, as a developer you need tools that are not usefull for joe blow12:55
qwerty12You applied a unofficial community hack in the first place, you should be prepared to accept consequences.12:55
KotCzarnybut it doesn't stop you from installing them on your tablet12:55
qwerty12Also, xomap may need updating for diablo.12:55
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lcuk100% agree that i can do whatever i want, but if i expect users to have to do the same it becomes a big problem at upgrade time12:56
KotCzarnythen you just revert to 'original' kernel/libs for testing12:56
lcukbetter to work with whats available12:56
KotCzarnyor ask people to test12:56
KotCzarnyor just keep 2 machines12:56
lcukhence my original question:  how can i log and monitor cpu stats on my device without having to reflash a new kernel12:57
jottlcuk: i really don't get your point. you can even boot a oprofile enabled kernel without flashing it.12:58
KotCzarnylcuk: probably by analyzing files in /proc12:58
jottif you use a oprofile kernel you will use it just for benchmarking/profiling your application/system, when you are done - reboot and get the vanilla nokia kernel back12:59
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jotton the other hand - when you achieve a huge perfomance boost or some really nice improvements on a kernel level, there are alot of people willing to take the consequences13:01
qwerty12lcuk, if you decide to go oprofile,
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qwerty12v.old however.13:01
KotCzarnyi think pupnik had some fun with oprofile13:01
qwerty12he couldn't mount those modules I compiled against stock nokia kernel for him :/13:02
jottoprofile is nice for some quick and dirty profiling.13:02
KotCzarnylcuk: if you are interested in simply generating run stats, you can compile your app with gprofile inrofmation13:03
KotCzarnythat will save the log of used functions with some oeverhead13:04
KotCzarnyand then another tool can generate report from it13:04
KotCzarnyi think it's: -fprofile-generate13:04
KotCzarnyor -pg13:04
lcukim already happy which parts of my program are ok - i just wanna see where my battery is draining to13:05
lcukdid you write a command line battery level viewer?13:05
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KotCzarnybut it's more like raw dc voltage from battery13:05
lcukwhere is it? - ill put it in my little thing13:05
KotCzarnyusual link13:05
lcukthats ok, it will allow me to track13:05
qwerty12KotCzarny, oh yeah, I figured out why my retu values were being returned as fffffff :)13:06
lcukoprofile is above and beyond what i need right now - ill find out in the morning whats happening - ill just run as normal and leave my little script running overnight13:06
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KotCzarnylcuk: /n800/kcbatt/13:06
KotCzarnyqwerty: root needed :)13:07
qwerty12Yep :). I was running it via personal menu with root option ticked but it doesn't run anything after battery-status as root so it was just running && kcbatt rather than && sudo kcbatt :)13:07
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KotCzarnyqwerty: chown root kcbatt; chmod +s kcbatt13:08
KotCzarnyand you can run it as user then :)13:08
qwerty12Ah, thanks :). I was using sudo with ALL = ALL NOPASSWD etc13:08
lcukhmmm kot, something wrong with your dns13:09
KotCzarnywhich one?13:09
lcukusing your normal domain+port gives The server at is taking too long to respond.13:09
KotCzarnyadd port :2328013:09
lcukhmmm indeed, it pings ok13:10
lcukping your domain gives 68.blah, but trying from browser gives a 192.blah error13:10
qwerty12If you don't mind me asking, does the "gather_data" stuff run on computer using logs/dumps from kcbatt running on the N800?13:12
lcukheh - without the trailing slash it gives error13:12
KotCzarnyqwerty: i think only script 0_something runs on device13:12
KotCzarnythe rest is just parsing/plotting13:12
KotCzarnywhich can be done anywhere (assuming you have utils/skills)13:12
qwerty12Ah, thanks. The graph looks cool, I'd be interested in trying it out sometime.13:13
qwerty12Nah, I don't have skills :D13:13
KotCzarnyi went lazy way and wrote dat -> gnuplot conversion in php13:13
* KotCzarny feels a little vbish13:13
KotCzarnybut just a little13:14
lcukif it gets the job done13:14
qwerty12fo sure13:14
KotCzarnyfast enough and easy to modify13:14
lcukincidentally, my bother with parsing strings in c, the top_log viewer thing i hacked up in vb uses this sort of line for parsing13:15
lcukqScan(lin, qt, "stp    ", "[d.nam] [d.mon] [d.num] [d.h]:[d.m]:[d.s] GMT [d.yr] :: [d.title]")13:15
lcukive started to put same thing into c :)13:15
KotCzarnyi think you will see something similiar in .phpsh13:15
lcukyer probably13:15
KotCzarny\d is any digit in regexp13:16
KotCzarny\s is any spacing char13:16
KotCzarny+ is one of more of the char on the left13:17
lcuki looked at regex and its another language entirely - it hurt my head ;)13:17
KotCzarnylcuk: you will love it13:17
lcuki reorganised all the page/stroke/point code last night in prep for proper saving - i no longer allocate a buffer array of points as i am drawing the stroke ive got linked list :)13:18
KotCzarnyi should move myself into the bed13:19
lcukim just worried about fragmentation cos calling malloc on lots of little bits is bad so i thought, but then realised that at some level malloc must be a bit sensible13:19
lcuksudo apt-get install kot_in_bed13:19
lcukor something13:19
KotCzarnythen just call malloc in a loop once13:20
KotCzarnyoff i go13:20
KotCzarnynight ppl13:20
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qwerty12So seeing as it's gonna be quiet, what's happenin my gangstas?13:21
lcukim stripping and rebuilding lots of code13:23
lcukive got the bits for my battery test tonight and can get on with actual work13:23
lcuk:D whats even better is its bank holiday tomorrow13:24
qwerty12Yep :D13:24
qwerty12No school for me tommorow, w00t13:24
lcukand then on tuesday im calling finland and confirming my cc details with travel agent13:24
lcukinfact i could do that tomorrow, chances are they havent got a holiday13:25
qwerty12Nice :). Enjoy yourself :)13:25
lcukin amongst all this planning for linuxtag ive got to stop everything and go on real family holiday13:25
* lcuk is surrounded by suitcases13:26
qwerty12lol, I wish I was. Furthest I've been is in Bolton :(13:26
* qwerty12 is tempted to smack my N800 up if it keeps on saying Usb device not supported.13:27
lcukwell this year is the first time we have managed to get abroad on our own wallet13:27
qwerty12Still, it's a nice thing though :)13:28
* qwerty12 has an odd impulse to compile another kernel13:28
BlafaselHmm.. Linuxtag would be neat.. If I manage to get vacation I'll probably join there as wel13:28
qwerty12So, what is happening in Linuxtag, in a nutshell?13:29
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lcukthere are a number of nokia maemo presentations and talks, and on the wider linux scene similar things from lots of companies13:30
qwerty12Ah nice, thanks for clearing it up for me.13:30
lcuki dont actually know everything thats going on, but im glad i have the chance to go and see everything13:30
lcukits a chance to see the best of breed from the scene13:31
qwerty12If I'm being honest, if I was a couple years older and I knew a LOT, I'd go to see more of Berlin :p13:31
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lcukwell im there for a few days - im sure i wont sit inside the whole time13:31
qwerty12hehe, I'd hope not :p13:32
lcukthough since i will have a tan (having just got back from family holday a few days before) im not sure i will get in the door13:32
lcuk"im sorry son, you are not pale enough to enter this linux convention"13:32
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qwerty12"son, Do You Know Why I'm Stopping You For?"13:35
qwerty12Man, the exam authorities should lower the time for the Citizenship exam :/ :(13:36
lcukin england?13:43
lcukwhere are you from originally then if you are taking?13:44
qwerty12Everyone has to take it in school. I'm originally Pakistani that was born in this country.13:44
lcuki thought if you were born here you were considered english on paperwork13:45
lcuknot that it matters, good luck with passing it - ive heard its quite tough13:46
qwerty12Yeah, it's a school subject. Everyone of any nationality in school has to take it. (It's usually an optional subject but our school forces everyone to take it). Its about things like AIDS, Bullying etc.13:46
qwerty12Thanks :)13:46
* konttori just videod a small presentation of the wiicontrol. Just about to push it to youtube.13:47
lcuklol konttori i laugh everytime i hear about controlling your wii13:47
lcukqwerty12, you live in london now dont you13:48
qwerty12lcuk, yes :)13:48
lcukhow you feel about boris becoming mayor - as an outsider i think he will do ok13:48
qwerty12I'm not sure TBH, I want to see what he does yet. Ken wasn't great either imo, a lot of bus fares increased. But the free travel on buses for under 16's was a nice touch.13:50
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lcuk:D w000t i have finally got my computer all to myself.  cbeebies works on the laptop14:01
keesjkonttori: in combo with maemo I guess?14:02
qwerty12Lol, in this house, we all have our own computers :p14:02
konttoriwiicontrol and maemo. yes14:03
konttoriLatest version with gyro support in here:
konttoriI'll try to make a publish blog today.14:05
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konttoriWiicontrol demo video here:
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jldiazhey, konttori :)14:20
konttoriHi jldiaz!14:20
jldiazI had no time yet to look at your latest .deb14:21
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jldiazbut I'm looking at the video :-)14:21
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lcukkonttori, you have a black fronted 810 :O14:22
konttoriUmm.. nope, it's standard frontend. It's just so bright in the room14:23
* lcuk spray paints his14:23
qwerty12_N800is this a preview of diablo too? :p14:23
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konttoriI do have a wimax *as well*, but that device on the video is my n810. Special version though (8gb internal card)14:24
lcukdev model14:24
Onianokonttori: 8GB internal?!14:24
konttoriNope, it's not dev model. We just received surprise presents from the factory.14:24
lcukyou are going to bring lots of cool things to ltag14:25
konttoriAs you can imagine, Nokia is really good at tailoring products and they just thought they'll make us happy with a surprise. Well, we were!14:25
lcuki bet :)14:26
* lcuk goes to his shed14:26
* qwerty12_N800 packs bags for Helsinki to get a job :p14:26
* konttori published the wiicontrol blog:
konttoriwe are hiring at the moment, so if you are interested in a relocating to helsinki and in working with some seriously cool linux stuff, then you might want to contact the nokia guys at linuxtag.14:33
qwerty12_N800Nice :), I don't have the knowledge  yet and the extra numbers on my age! But I think it would be nice if I could program and I was old enough.14:36
konttoriwell, summer trainee positions *may* also come. Otoh, they may be a bit difficult for non-finnish people.14:39
* konttori goes to have lunch14:40
qwerty12_N800yeah, my aptitude for languages is really bad, i can't speak my mother tongue ;/14:40
jldiazbon apetit!14:40
RST38hkonttori: Are you actually hiring people to do linux development?14:50
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RST38hyea, forgot to switch the register14:57
mbufkonttori, we are hiring; who is we?15:01
qwerty12_N800probably the Linux/internet tablet division15:01
mbufqwerty12_N800, ok15:02
qwerty12_N800I'd like to work in rnd so I could steal the plans for retu (it goes in their phones too) :p15:03
BlafaselHmm.. Employment at Nokia? Thanks, but no thanks. ;) Thinking about the german factory I'd rather choose an employer with better manners.15:03
mbufbut do Nokia take consultants, rather than direct employment15:04
qwerty12_N800I don't think nokia would close down an Helsinki office...15:04
RST38hBlafasel: You can get laid off by ANY employer15:05
RST38hStandard practice. And in the US, you will also get escorted off premises by security guys.15:06
Mikhothere was a cultural aspect as well with the german factory15:06
BlafaselRST38h: But killing a whole factory after reaping a huge amound of subsidy (right word?), directly before you announce huuuge profits is - poor ;)15:06
RST38hBlafasel: Corporation is no human being. Ethical considerations do not apply here.15:07
Mikhowell, they're optimizing winnings. Just like everyone15:07
mbufRST38h, very true; all corporations do that15:07
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BlafaselRST38h: As soon as taxes are used to pay for these things I guess it's getting emotional.15:08
Blafasel"My money payed for X and X sucks/is wrong" is the attitude that usually arises. Not that I'm "OMG! Never buy Nokia devices again" or something, but I _am_ pissed off and still think that it's wrong/sad.15:09
RST38hBlafasel: Your taxes are probably used for a lot of weird stuff, from sex change surgeries to subsidies for Kosovar drug traders15:10
RST38hSo, just write 'em off and think of something positive15:10
BlafaselRST38h: Proves for that? :) In this case I _know_ where it went. You are presenting chances, theories, assumptions or whatever.15:11
Mikhowhere did it go?15:11
BlafaselMikho: Hm?15:11
Mikhosorry, just joined the conversation15:11
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Mikhowhat are the taxes used for at the moment?15:12
BlafaselMikho: Hm? I can name you some big projects nationally, some minor locally - but what are you trying to say/ask?15:13
Mikhoyou said the taxes are used to pay for "these things". What is these things?15:14
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BlafaselMikho: I was talking about the Nokia factory in Germany/Bochum - it received quite a lot of federal and state money15:15
Mikhofrom germany?15:15
RST38hHasn't Nokia agreed to return the money though?15:16
BlafaselStandard stuff for huge plants - they create jobs and get money for that15:16
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BlafaselRST38h: Not that I know of - the last info that I had was that they don't want to pay the stuff back, but that's old news. I hope I didn't miss that?15:17
RST38hlet me look it up15:18
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RST38hNo news of the payback, but at least I have found you someone to blaim :)15:20
infobotRST38h meant: No news of the payback, but at least I have found you someone to blame :)15:21
BlafaselAh.. No, as far as I know they talk about a compromise: Nokia invests money in a foundation for Bochum and the state doesn't sue Nokia for about 60 mil. Euro.15:21
RST38hTHE ROMANIANS, Blafasel! You are losing it to Romanians.15:21
BlafaselSo - better than I thought, yes ;)15:21
BlafaselRST38h: Well - no problem with that. I guess they'll reap some subsidy there as well for creating a new factory.. ;-p15:22
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RST38hBlafasel: Probably not15:22
RST38hLast time I checked, the place was the usual east-european hellhole. No GDP to speak about, poor citizens, low wages.15:23
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RST38h[notice the low wages part :)]15:23
Blafasel(Or maybe the US would be nice - paying in $ instead of Euro :) )15:25
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pupnikthe state shouldn't interfere with the economy15:27
RST38hnot possible nowadays15:28
RST38halthough you can minimize interference15:28
pupnikyes but to minimize, liberalism must be taught in schools etc15:30
pupnikorry for the offtopic15:30
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RST38hPeriodic killing of every third civil servant will be more effective15:32
RST38hAnd yes, by all means, start with Department of Education...15:33
pupnikso why is german govt threatening to sue?15:33
pupnikthey bribed VW a lot for a plant, then vw moved it away too, iirc15:34
pupnikbut there was no breach of contract.  just stupid policy decisions :)15:35
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evaryontWhy would I want to 'tether' my cell phone to my n800? What does it mean when I do tether them together? I can already pair them, is there anything more?15:44
lcuktethering works well with a nokia certified gimp mask15:45
lcuktethering is just the term for using your mobile phone to get internet15:45
qwerty12_N800s/gimp mask/gimp suit15:45
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lcuksudo apt-get install lunch15:47
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evaryontlcuk: thanks a lot. Internet access via phone is useful. :)15:48
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gpdIs it / might it be possible to ever plug a / other 3G broadband USB dongle into an N8x0 to get full on the go internet?16:09
gpdgood answer.16:11
gpdmajor bottle necks? driver + USB host mode + other?16:12
TheNewAndyI'd suspect that driver for the device would be a bottleneck (I think even on x86 linux they are a bit fiddly)16:13
TheNewAndy(though I've never used one)16:13
qwerty12_N800ch model is the modem?16:13
gpdbut a generic USB 3G modem with Linux support might work - then it would be a case of finding a provider that supported the card.16:13
gpdHuawei e220 USB Modem16:14
gpdZTE MF622 USB Modem16:14
gpdboth of those are mentioned on the site16:14
qwerty12_N800i made a qu16:14
qwerty12_N800i made a quick build of umtsmon which supports it16:14
qwerty12_N800i never tested however16:15
qwerty12_N800check the zte thread on itt for some tools i  ported16:15
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lcukwouldnt it be easier if you used a mobile with 3g modem inside and connected via some sort of personal wireless networking interface16:16
lcuki feel blue that i can't remember, its on the tip of my tongue16:16
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gpdlcuk: which phone would you suggest?16:16
gpdi was under the impression that using the phone as a modem was very costly with most providers (in the UK)16:17
lcuki dunno, go into a phone shop and ask - i thought most business phones had impressive data plans and tethering capabilities16:17
gpdThis dongle is much cheaper - hence the interest. but maybe you are right16:18
lcukgetting a dinky PAYG phone with basic funcionality would likely be the rip off16:18
lcukhave you checked to see if other 3 phones work16:18
lcukafter all, the 3 dongle is just a mobile phone without a screen or keypad16:18
gpdno - not done much as yet - cheating by asking in here and hoping kind people would have the answers without too many hours of research16:18
lcuki use my 810 exclusively on wifi - i checked at first if my o2 ice would work with its built in 3g data modem but because its PAYG its all locked down16:19
lcukim sure there is a way i could use it, but tbh i just cant be arsed i didnt get it for roaming16:19
gpdI have O2 Simplicity - but use an ancient phone and not sure whether now is the time to upgrade it. nothing out there is very exciting.16:20
gpdwas away from wifi yesterday and got annoyed - couldn't face the btopenzone charge16:20
lcukwhen you do go looking, take your nokia with you andask them to see it working with your device16:20
gpdlast time i asked vodafone they said it was going to cost a fortune to use the phone to dialup - maybe that was PAYG16:21
lcukno, they wanted you using the dialup internet16:21
lcukthats not what the full 3g is16:21
RST38h$0.20/MB here, no contract required, no tethering charge16:21
gpdRST38h: which provider?16:22
RST38hMTS.RU :)16:22
gpdlcuk: any idea which Nokias are in the running to do this 'full 3G' of which you speak? does it have to be superfancy N95 etc?16:22
lcukwell i have cheapest most bog standard o2 phone, it is fully 3g and technically has all the hardware in it, but the software is locked down16:23
gpdalso: anywhere other than you would buy from - especially unlocked phones16:23
lcuki think if i got the same thing on a contract it would work but as i say i didnt look too far16:23
gpdlcuk: simplicity is very good if you use more than £15 /mo in calls / texts16:24
lcuki prefer to buy from the main dealer - i got my o2 phone from o2, i got my nokia from nokia..16:24
lcuki dont though - its rare i get through more than 1016:24
RST38hactually, $0.1816:25
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gpdany magic search terms I should use to find phones that will give full 3G via N800?16:26
AStormall HSDPA will16:27
AStormas long as they themselves get full 3G16:27
RST38hsearch for "hsdpa"16:27
RST38hPrefer phones that support DUN BT profile, too16:28
gpdgreat - thanks - will leave you all in peace and do my research16:28
AStormpan is fastern and also works16:28
AStormwith an added driver16:28
RST38hyea, but it requires extra software16:28
pH5but PAN with a group of tablets around a single phone is fun :)16:28
RST38hAnybody knows what the "93 tv stations" post on ITT is all about? I tried these streams and non of them appear to work, at least on PC16:30
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AStormthis aep dsp is some sound processor16:32
AStormboosts bass and adds crossover16:32
gpdNokia E51 looks suitable - but still a bit expensive16:39
BlafaselWhat the hell is PAYG?16:40
qwerty12_N800pay  as u go16:40
gpdpay as you go16:40
BlafaselAh.. Tried to read it as a mixup between pay and 3g, which didn't make sense for me.16:41
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BlafaselI have unlimited (well, probably there are hidden limits that they just don't advertise) 3G access on my phone, but the signal sucks most of the time. I really need to switch to vodafone or something soon16:42
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RST38hgpd: E51 case wears out in a matter of weeks16:44
RST38hstarts developing spots for some reason16:45
gpdRST38h: other suggestions?16:45
gpd6121? cheaper... :)16:45
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* RST38h uses E70 which kid of defeats the need for a tablet16:57
jldiazanyone knows how to *permanently* get rid of the toolbar in osso-xterm?16:58
qwerty12_N800Use osso-xterm from svn16:59
qwerty12_N800fiferboy and jott both have builds16:59
jldiazthere are no side effwcts?17:00
RST38hunless you pray to Satan every wednesday, it quits.17:00
qwerty12_N800none at all afaik17:00
jldiazissues with utf8 or whatever? (I'm spanish)17:00
qwerty12_N800You can switch the encoding17:01
jldiazI'll give it a try. I suppose I can return to standard osso-xterm in case of trouble17:01
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jldiazanyway, there is no configuration file for xterm where storing the toolbar preferences?17:02
qwerty12_N800it's in gconf17:03
jldiazah, thx17:04
qwerty12_N800np, /apps/osso/xterm is where mine is17:04
RST38hbtw. how do you return to the standard xterm?17:05
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qwerty12_N800non svn , i.e stock build?17:06
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* konttori published updated version of wiicontrol:
konttoriOnly updated the install postinst script.17:09
RST38hqwerty: yep17:09
konttoriAnd updated the blog to include the link as well:
qwerty12_N800it's not in  a repo so you would rebuild  0.14.mh3 from svn17:10
qwerty12_N800(mine is stock atm)17:10
qwerty12_N800alternatively, I could tar up the files?17:11
RST38hit was an academic question but thanks :)17:11
kulvefeel free to test and report all new issues to me17:17
qwerty12_N800cool :)17:17
kulveI'm not sure if the new LMS ogg package is already there. I suppose it is..17:18
qwerty12_N800Is there any  ogg converters available on the tablet?17:19
kulveactually I didn't find the lightmediascanner0-ogg yet..17:19
kulveqwerty12_N800: converters? like mp3->ogg? Not that I know of..17:19
kulveshouldn't things like that be done on a more powerful computer..17:20
derfThings like _that_ shouldn't be done.17:20
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qwerty12_N800yeah, thanks, i'm gonna try anyway :p17:20
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Veggenkulve: hey, I compiled dcraw for my n810. which means that in a pinch, I could convert Nikon raw pictures (NEF) to jpeg. I actually envision having use for it some day, although not on a grand scale ;)17:21
Veggen(it took 100% of the CPU and all the RAM for around a minute or more, but it did produce a jpeg picture)17:22
qwerty12_N800I think it's already in repo's :/17:23
derfAh hah, found the file:
NullM0demthe n810 is a workhorse :-)17:23
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* lcuk gives NullM0dem's 810 a sugarbube17:27
lcukcube even ffs17:27
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jottspeaking of, i compiled "canon capture" for my n810 which works great - the n8x0 could make a really nice remote for powershot cameras with some extra gui foo17:31
qwerty12_N800w00t, i'm finally getting with the times and getting 8gb sd. I'm gonna set up a proper dev environment (may even tar up parts of my sbox)17:31
RST38hon a tablet? =)17:32
GAN800jott, what's it work with? 400D, perhaps?17:33
qwerty12_N800RST38h, yep,  need some proper arm  emulation17:33
jott(it's an incomplete list - there are probably more models supported)17:34
GAN800Unlikely to be DSLRs unfortunately, though.17:35
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jottGAN800: if you like you can give it a try: needs the camera to be connected in host mode...17:43
jottGAN800: latest gphoto2 seems to support 400D17:48
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NullM0demlcuk: tanks for the cube :)17:53
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NullM0demAnyone play with the dual core low power mini-itx boards?17:54
NullM0demI have this vision of building a low power / portable workstation combining the n810 with a beefy mini-itx board17:55
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pupnikjott: you see the news?  dev packages of pandora now going out...
jottpupnik: yeah sounds really great.17:58
Cptnodegardgpe contacts is being gay17:58
Cptnodegardit doesnt want to import a normal vcard17:59
jottnever thought they could maintain their deadline17:59
Cptnodegardanyone know why?17:59
kuriiribecause it's gay17:59
pupnikwell they are past initial optimistic deadline for the first run - but it's past the 'vaporware' stage17:59
NullM0demwow! the pandora looks awesome18:00
qwerty12Cptnodegard, make the vcard unnormal18:00
qwerty12looks fugly18:00
jottnow we only need to get a device ;)18:00
pupnikyeah it'd be nice to get maemo/mamona on it18:00
Cptnodegardqwerty12: ?18:00
qwerty12I'm pissin around18:00
pupnikbut right now they're not too maemo-friendly18:00
NullM0demid be happy with console and FB18:01
GAN800pupnik, sticking Debian + Hildon/Matchbox on there should be pretty easy.18:01
GAN800Cptnodegard, GPE is changing all of your male contacts to 'more than friends'? :P18:02
pupnikinitial release will be a uni-task program launcher afaik18:02
qwerty12Go on Cptnodegard, the closet door is open :p18:03
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jottpupnik: do you know if there are already "public" opengl es drivers?18:03
GAN800pupnik what's the difference between the dev devices and the shipping ones?18:03
Cptnodegarddoes anyone have a clue why it fails to open a vcard that any other app including the build in contacts can open?=18:04
jott(which is actually the only thing that matters for this device ;-)18:04
GAN800Cptnodegard, check the mailing list.18:04
GAN800(stupid goddamn virtual keyboard) I think it's a UTF-8 parsing issue.18:04
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lcukNullM0dem, "id be happy with console and FB"     for want of a blank canvas :)  i am doing exactly that myself and learning a lot in the process18:05
GAN800(maemo-users list if I recall correctly, thread from about a week ago)18:06
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qwerty12You can already use console in FB on N800. I can't because I don't have a keyboard but I got getty running on vt 1 :)18:06
lcukqwerty12, thats what i mean, i have them and am enjoying playing18:07
* lcuk huggles his nokia some more18:07
qwerty12Nice :). I can't wait to get a usb keyboard and OTG adapter then I'm gonna use FB :)18:08
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pupnikGAN800: dev devices are for developers, assemble-yourself, test and give feedback.  jott: no18:08
qwerty12I have it currently set to show me the syslog at bootup time.18:08
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jottit would be great to see a pandora at linuxtag :)18:09
qwerty12If I come into a windfall, I'm gonna buy a Pandora and use my N800 for what it's marketed for - a internet tablet :)18:10
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Cptnodegardupdated but still fails to import18:11
lcuk_outcyas later18:11
Cptnodegardany other good contact apps?18:11
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qwerty12Hmm, do you think gdebi would work on a N800? i've given up on synaptic.18:18
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GAN800qwerty12, just use apt.18:26
GAN800or learn GTK so you can implement my badass Application manager mockups18:27
qwerty12GAN800, I use dpkg but it would be nice to not have to resort to console. I'm gonna try and compile it and force it use sudo to open a file.18:27
qwerty12This looked very promising:
* GAN800 pimps ->
jldiazhehe... I'm playing marble madness on n810, using the wiimote acelerometers as input18:29
jldiazI hold the wiimote with the n810 on top with both hands18:29
qwerty12marble madness? :)18:29
jldiazand I can control the ball by tilting the tablet18:30
GAN800I had that for Gameboy18:30
GAN800Fun one18:30
qwerty12I had it on my phone :)18:30
jldiazyes, marble madness, version for NES, through fceu18:30
qwerty12Ah :)18:30
jldiazbut can you play simply tiping the phone?18:30
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jldiazI play without pressing any button or key!18:30
qwerty12W910 can, I have W810 where I can't18:30
qwerty12W910 comes with marble madness preinstalled18:31
GAN800Wiimote + tablet is a fairly inspired combination.18:31
qwerty12with the tilt sensor working18:31
jldiazoh, so this is not such a novel idea18:31
jldiazcool anyway :-)18:31
jldiazI'm trying to think a cool application for n810 accelerometers, not game related, but I can't find one...18:32
jldiazn810 -> wiimote18:33
qwerty12mypaint would be sick with a wii controller18:33
lcuk_outyou can make xchat wobble around and have all the IRC comments fall to the ground18:33
jldiazyes, or shake the wiimote for banning a song in Vagalume...18:33
jldiazbut I was talking about useful applications :-)18:34
jldiazsuch as carrying the wiimote in the car, as kind of "black box", recording the accelerations in the vehicle18:34
lcuk_outyou could just do the usual and make light sabre noises - then when you are walking round town you get the effect by swinging your mote around18:34
GAN800Be mildly interesting to use for racing18:34
lcuk_outjldiaz, thats a really really good idea actually18:34
GAN800If, perhaps, not entirely sensitive enough.18:35
lcuk_outcouple it with the gps and track the feel of certain roads18:35
qwerty12Take a look what the N95 community do with accelerometer. Lots of accelerometer programs are written in Python.18:35
lcuk_outdo ya reckon if we shake our 810 hard enough the nokia hidden module will start working18:35
GAN800There's a thread on ITT covering use in racing with GPS, acellerometers and such.18:36
* lcuk_out holds out the barest hint of a chance of an easter egg18:36
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* GAN800 smacks lcuk down.18:36
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konttoripupnik: any progress on the snes emu?18:53
pupnikno sorry18:53
konttoriI just tried the old one from your web page.18:53
qwerty12Does it run any better under OS2008?18:53
pupniknew one loads a rom18:53
konttoriIt's pretty ok for rpg:s, but not fast enough for super mario bros18:53
konttoriIt's now really fun to use with the wiicontrol though.18:53
konttoriso, that's a plus18:53
pupnikvery cool.  you have a post on ITT how to set up wii?18:54
konttoriJust would be great to get a bit more omph to it18:54
pupniknew version will be either fullspeed or frameskip 118:54
konttoriWell, yeah.  ON:
konttorithere's a thread of it on:
konttoriIt does not by defult have config for snes. I'll add that today.18:55
qwerty12Does it work any better that cwiid?18:55
konttoriIt works perfectly imho18:55
konttorino issues whatsoever.18:55
qwerty12Cool, I'll buy a wii controller soon :)18:55
konttoriworks on all sdl games as well18:55
konttoritake a look at the blogpost. there's a video on it18:56
pupnik:) cool nice video18:56
konttorithanks. Had to do something quickly to show how wonderful it is.18:56
qwerty12Probably a lot easier than cwiid too, cwiid needs modules inserting. But thanks to KotCzarny and jott, I use modprobe now.18:56
pupnikkonttori: in the video you say you are working on 'multi-events?'18:58
konttorimouse events18:59
konttoriTo push the acceleration data as relative mouse movement18:59
pupnikahh.  interesting.18:59
konttoriqwerty12: wiicontrol doesn't need anything else, but installing that deb (and python) and running the app18:59
jldiazkonttori, I was playing marble madness on fceu, moving the ball by tilting the tablet18:59
konttorithen it asks you to press 1+2 on controller and that's it18:59
konttorijldiaz: really? Cool!19:00
jldiazthis would make another good demo video :-)19:00
qwerty12konttori, I know :). That's why I think this is better.19:00
konttorijldiaz: I have to try that one as well. Cool!19:00
konttoripupnik: if you have wiimote, I can send you a wiicontrol with snes configuration pre-made19:02
jldiazyou have to hold the wiimote below the tablet, obviusly19:02
pupnikdon't have it.  it would also be fun to allow two player games19:03
konttoripupnik: true19:03
konttoriI've been thinking about that too. would be just great!19:03
jldiaznext step in coolness: recognize "wiimote gestures"19:04
konttorijldiaz: yeah. and the configuration dropdown and user editable controls.19:06
jldiazsuch as "shake vertical" "shake horizontal" "rotate left" "rotate right"19:06
jldiazi was thinking about the config files19:06
jldiazone first trivial step would be storing these config files in python syntax19:07
jldiazthis way a simple import would parse them19:08
jldiazor eval19:08
solmumahahead mount for the tablet would be nice19:08
jldiazso you can show your mindmap? :)19:09
solmumahato have both hands free19:11
konttorijldiaz: I agree that we could put those to the configs in python syntax.19:11
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konttoriA bit of a problem comes on how to handle the rotation: If we want to use it for mouse / analog movement, the config file should support that by having some multiplier to movement.19:12
konttoriSo, let's start the config files with just the button support and then build on top of that maybe the GU': ["a w"],19:13
konttori    'GD': ["a s"],19:13
konttori    'GL': ["a a"],19:13
konttori    'GR': ["a d"]19:13
konttoriFor the current rotation-like keybutton events and some option to make the mouse events out of it.19:13
konttorie.g. quake and doom would appreciate mouse movements19:14
inzItalo, did the device slip out of the pouch and break?19:14
Italodanceinz yes some crashes19:15
Italodanceit is tiny but very important for me19:15
Italodancethe pouch is very shit19:15
Italodanceit is very sharp19:15
Italodancei hate this pouch19:16
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Italodancehi qwerty12 are u there?19:16
Italodanceur Rise of the triad.  is full screen on n800?19:16
qwerty12Yes but it's buggy. I'm working on it atm19:17
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Italodanceis it the screenshot
qwerty12That may be later on in the game, the port isn't finished yet. I got freezing reduced by 70% ; I just cant figure out the 30%19:18
Italodanceoh tnx friend great job19:18
Italodancecan u do for max payne? the source and code is the same...19:19
qwerty12max payne code doesn't exist.19:19
Italodance  ?19:20
Italodanceinclude the demos19:21
qwerty12Tell me where the source is on that page.19:21
solmumahaqwerty12: just do it19:21
Italodanceqwerty12 go to
solmumahai want it too19:22
Italodancei want with the demos / movies :D19:22
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qwerty12come on, I can't get Max Payne source out of my ass now?19:23
Italodanceqwerty12 which codes/files do u want?19:24
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jldiazkonttori, what kind of mouse support are you thinking of? Do you mean enabling IR support?19:57
jldiazor moving the mouse pointer by tilting the wiimote (GU, GD, ... events)19:57
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jldiazusing relative mouse positions19:57
konttoritilting based to produce the relative movement19:58
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konttoriI think that's one good solution.19:58
jldiazI find it a little tricky to control19:58
konttoriYeah, it might not work out at all. I was only thinking about that to the quake like games19:59
jldiazAnother idea: using the accelerometers to compute the inclination angle of the wiimote19:59
jldiazand set the mouse multiplier proportional to this19:59
konttoriyeah. that's one solution19:59
konttoriand what I was actually meaning by the mouse support20:00
jldiazthis way, steeper angles leads to faster mouse movements20:00
konttoriso that it is 'analog',20:00
konttoriotoh: may be that there is no mouse use beyond the fps games20:01
glassfps games span a lot20:04
glassa good analog controller, be it mouse or good stick, always makes more kind of games possible20:04
konttoriNew version with snes key bindings:
qwerty12w00t, thanks20:05
konttoriumm.. well, link there at the bottom of the page20:05
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konttoripupnik: idi you get the drpocketsnes running?20:08
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NullM0demdoes anyone use GemRB? I am wondering how well it works20:11
NullM0demGemRB allows baldurs gate and icewind dale to run on a n81020:12
konttorireally? sounds cool!20:13
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konttoriTry it with wiicontrol!20:13
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gpdjust installed gnumeric on N800/chinook - quite nice - now tempted by Abiword - any word on that - seems to be a little way off due to upstream bugs - is that right?20:15
NullM0demkonttori RPG scrollers on my n810 with Wiicontrol would be sick!20:16
NullM0demgpd: I just installed gnumeric as well, though i dont know much about abiword.  It wouldbe a nice addition to have20:17
solmumahakonttori: tried duke3d with it?20:17
NaviI installed abiword a month or so back20:17
NaviIt didn't recognize different file formats properly20:17
Naviso you could only open abw files20:18
NullM0demi would write in abw then export on a desktop20:18
gpdwhat about another RTF editor? anything come to mind?20:19
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zakmwhat was that quick way to get rid of the metalayer-crawler? on 2007HE ?20:20
gpdzim -  seems dead20:22
lcukNullM0dem, konttori ping pupnik, you are right up his alley20:23
gpd <-- not dead20:23
RST38hgpd: Google Docs20:26
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gpdheh - good point - jest need to get google gears on N800 and for it to work with docs!20:27
konttorisolmumaha: nope20:27
konttoriwhere's that?20:27
RST38hgpd: You can simply use their web site version20:27
konttorizakm: I think you need to rename the binary.20:27
konttoriso that it won't get triggered20:28
gpd[still researching HSDPA phones - mixed messages about Nokia 6120 - any tips on top phones for use with n800 appreciated]20:28
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gpdRST38h: more info on that would be helpful - not heard of it... rock, under, moi?20:29
gpdRST38h: do you mean that you can download and run a version of google docs on your own site? or just use the online version and get over being offline... ever ;)20:30
NullM0demlcuk: up what alley??20:30
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zakmdoes google gears work on 2007HE ?20:35
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gpdDoes anyone here use O2 simplicity and understand their 1 pound per day browsing allowance - how does this work with the 3G over bluetooth to N800 for example?20:39
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RST38hgpd:you can use google docs as google intended it - via their sitre20:50
gpdok RST38h thanks.20:50
gpdLooks like O2 Simplicity 'UK Browsing up to Â1GBP per day' means that you pay only 1 pound and then after that you can browse at will up to their reasonable usage allowance... tasty20:52
evaryont_hm, has anyone been able to tether their n8x0 to a Kajeet phone? :/20:52
RST38h30 pounds/month = $6020:52
gpdRST38h: true - but if i only use it a few days a month then it might be useful / cheap. i am normally near wifi or broadband.20:53
RST38hOf course if their allowance comes down to a few gigabytes a month, then it may be worth it20:53
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RST38hgpd: Do you click on some form to get access or how does buying it for a day work?20:54
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gpdwell - you only pay for the data when you use it- this is a voice / text plan that has this as an option20:55
RST38hso if you used data as much as a few seconds a day, you get chargaed $2?20:55
gpdnormally i pay nothing unless i am above 200 minutes or 200 texts per month - but if i use data then it is 'up to 1 pound' per day - ie once you go above that you get free access for the day  :)20:56
gpdno - you get a prorated charge up to 1 pound at some crazy ratge20:56
RST38hno, this actually sounds reasonable20:56
gpdso all i need now is  a bluetooth phone which i can tether to the n800 and i am away20:56
gpd'tethering' is still a mystery - must do some more research20:57
RST38hactually it is dead simple20:57
RST38has long as you have a Nokia phone, gets a bit more complicated with non-nokias20:57
RST38hit is probably exactly the same with a UIQ-based Sony Ericsson though20:58
gpdok - great - looking at Nokia phones - tempted by N95 - but too poor ;)20:58
RST38hN95 is a brick anyway20:58
term-sigwhat about three mobile broadband?20:58
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gpdterm-sig: that is where i came in ... was contemplating trying to get the 3 USB dongle to attach to the N800 - but sounds complex20:59
gpd <-- for the logs a howto21:00
term-siggpd: are uk from uk?21:00
jaskayeah, need bt pan to work with my htc4350 :)21:00
gpdterm-sig: yes and yes21:00
term-sigups, uk/you..21:01
term-sigand what provider u using for internet on your n8x0 ?21:01
gpdterm-sig: currently I am on O2 simplicity - but have not used it to connect via N800 as yet -21:02
gpdterm-sig:  you?21:02
evaryont_can anyone access the mobile google sites?21:02
gpdok - looks like I need to find the O2 packet data settings for the connecitvity manager...21:03
term-siggpd: i`m looking for something nice, on begin i was thinking about "three" but next i heard that this usb dongle doesnt have sim card..21:04
term-sigand it will be quite hard to connect my n810 to it..21:04
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gpdthree has also got poor signal in some areas21:04
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term-sigwhat about that simplicity? 1 quid for day right? any limits or something like thaht..21:06
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gpd£3 per MB up to a maximum of £1 per day (00:00am to 23:59pm). Once you have reached your maximum daily charge of £1, O2 Web Daily allows you unlimited use of O2 UK‘s Edge/GPRS/ 3G networks (as applicable to your handset), for personal internet use via your mobile phone.21:09
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RST38hgpd: 3 pounds per megabyte?21:09
czrso you're only allowed to transfer 333 KiB, right? ;-)21:09
gpdup to maximum of 1 pound in one day21:09
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gpdno maximum per day specified - but some terms on usage21:10
RST38hstill, that is the highest per-MB rate I have ever heard about21:11
RST38hmaybe if you use satellite phones it comes down to higher amounts, but $6 for 1MB of cellular data?!?21:11
gpdagreed - you would have to use it wisely - ie. lots on a few days a month21:13
term-siggpd: it's looking like u can buy it and next put sim card to u phone..21:15
term-sigand it's only 15 quid for 3gb allowance..21:16
Cptnodegardholy crap thats cheap21:16
RST38h$60 for 3GB is cheap?21:17
kaatisi'm paying 9.80e for 256 kb/s unlimited :)21:18
RST38hwired or wireless?21:18
RST38hActually, 15 quid is $30, right? THAT is cheap.21:19
czryou can get wireless 3g usb dongles here for that price (starting price)21:19
glasswireless i suppose21:19
glassi pay 9.90 for 384kbit/s21:19
czrbut 256 kbps is just painful21:19
glasswell, the corp pays but anyhow21:19
glasscrz: awful perhaps, but always with you..21:19
term-sigit's quite cheap and i dont saw anything better.21:20
* RST38h is still waiting for 3g21:20
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gpdanyone on Vodafone UK PAYG  and know the situation with Data on that?my gf has it and i'd like to test the testhering21:20
czrglass, no I meant that 256 for a 3G is just painful ;-)21:20
czrI'm all for mobility.21:21
glassheh, yeh it's a bit pointless limit point21:21
glasswith a little higher i'd get hsdpa21:21
glassor perhaps i'm getting it now21:22
kaatisRST38h, wireless21:22
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glassthe biggest shit with this connection is just that it's natted21:22
glassof course pings are too high for action games too21:22
gpddon't suppose there is a page somewhere with settings for all providers and how to tether to N8x0? wishful thinking..21:22
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Cptnodegardusb modems work with the ITs?21:23
iomarianyone out there?21:23
czrgpd, that's easy, just find the web page with the "all providers" list first ;-)21:23
gpdczr: thanks ;)21:23
iomarican someone tell me if it's possible to run apache on the n810?21:23
johnxCptnodegard, if it takes less than 100mA and has open source linux drivers, then probably21:23
johnxiomari, yes, but it will take up a good chunk of memory. do you plan to run apache and use the tablet at the same time?21:24
johnxmaybe lighthttpd would work better for you...21:24
NullM0demdoes lighttpd have a port?21:24
gpd <-- this site seems to have lots of data for setting up tethering - will try21:25
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Proteousabout cell phones that is21:26
Proteousalong with teathering info and such21:26
gpd <-- better21:26
Proteouswhatever works21:27
gpdProteous: sorry - i meant better than my previous link - not yours --- looking now21:27
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AStormcould someone build pulseaudio with esound support and vs speex integer lib?21:40
AStorm(for the resampler)21:41
AStormKotCzarny: btw, what have I asked you yesterday to build?,forgot to install21:43
AStormah, alsa-utils21:44
AStormI found out it isn't esd that's making the sound balance adjustments21:47
AStormit's the aep dsp process21:47
AStormseems to do psychoacoustic volume adjustment and some form of crossover21:47
AStormyou can disable it in the dsp config file to save a bit of cpu power and have normal sound21:48
AStormwho will wikiize what I said? :P21:48
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gpdmeh - can't get it to work with Vodafone - thether to N800 :(21:49
AStormcheck if your plan allows tethering21:50
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gpdanywhere you would suggest to check - is 'tether' the technical term for this - would it be on vodafone site?21:52
elbit's probably listed as a 'laptop data' or 'pda data' plan21:53
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AStormit's NOT aep itself, darn21:55
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AStormyes, it's aep... clearly21:57
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zakmdoes 2008HE take more battery life than 2007HE?22:12
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gpdcrap - I can access website from the phone - but cannot go via N800 - all I get is 'subscribe to packet data first' - must not allow tethering on this plan - despite not mentioning anything about it on their terms and conditions. :(22:18
AStormgpd: because they don't, they can do what they want22:20
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AStormso, you got rickrollede22:20
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gpdwell - that plan is my GF's so I need to try out the same on my plan - (02 simplicity) but not an unlocked phone and no bluetooth on my phone ... so  crapper22:22
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pupnikOne man writes Linux drivers for 235 USB webcams  heh22:37
flatfaceI have a couple of cameras that use those drivers. Old news is old, though.22:40
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Navithe inquirer sucks as a news source too :P22:48
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pupnikwb doc|home23:05
doc|homethanks pupnik23:06
pupnikcrap the berlin conference center is huge23:11
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gpdcould someone give me a URL for where youwould buy a phone in the USA - outside of the manufactuer - eg. what is the price of a nokia e51 in america... stupid google wants to give me UK prices :(23:19
gpdok - nvm - has them23:20
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KotCzarnyastorm: cool, what's the location of that dsp config? can it be changed on-the-fly ? (/me thinks about cheap eq)23:21
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AStormcan't be23:23
AStormthe effect is fairly mild tthough23:24
AStormthe crossfeed is most noticeable23:24
KotCzarnyheh.. config in /lib23:25
KotCzarnythose hackers :/23:25
AStormI want a disassembler23:25
RST38hgpd: $250..$40023:25
RST38hgpd: you should be able to change localization in google account settings23:25
KotCzarnyastorm: any links for aep?23:26
AStormhuh? no23:26
AStormit's at the bottom of the config23:26
KotCzarnyhow it is used?23:26
AStormit affects the sound though23:26
KotCzarnyso it's not user controllable?23:26
AStormyes, isn't23:27
AStormapart from disabling23:27
AStormunless you get me a dsp disassembler23:27
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KotCzarnyor porting some soft eq for dsp23:30
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AStormKotCzarny: shouldn't be hard23:34
KotCzarnybecause c compiler for dsp is available23:34
AStormI could port fftw-based eq, but I need a disasm first :P23:34
AStormand paid time :P23:34
KotCzarnyok, i should take $$ for compiling packages from now on :P23:35
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ProteousI'll give you $0.5023:36
konttorijldiaz: let's take a look at also the nunchuc next week.23:37
KotCzarnyper package? ok :)23:37
AStormper hour23:39
AStormof work time23:39
KotCzarnythat's 25$/h23:39
AStormno, I sail 0.5$/h23:40
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NullM0demback in the day spies would hide data on leftover romspace in atari cartirdges :)23:55
NullM0demnothng new23:55
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NullM0demi do often wonder what china puts in consumer grade router hardware23:57
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