IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2008-04-20

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unixSnob	I downloaded the maemo mapper maps manually. I recall some files had to be renamed, but now I can't find the site that had the instructions	00:05
KotCzarny	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB9SRm2c_LA	00:06
KotCzarny	:>	00:06
GeneralAntilles	unixSnob, why manually?	00:08
GeneralAntilles	2.x has them in a database	00:08
GeneralAntilles	So you can't really download maps without using Maemo Mapper.	00:09
KotCzarny	not true	00:09
KotCzarny	there is mapdownloader i think	00:09
KotCzarny	whatever it does	00:10
KotCzarny	:)	00:10
unixSnob	Maemo mapper is fragile.. if a connection goes bad, the whole partial download must start over	00:10
unixSnob	So I found a blog a few days ago pointing out where I could download them from manually.. wget is robust.. handled it well over a poor connection	00:10
unixSnob	but I can't find that blog again	00:10
GeneralAntilles	I say again, it wont work with 2.x	00:11
GeneralAntilles	2.x should continue from wherever it left off, anyway.	00:11
unixSnob	well it starts over for some reason	00:12
unixSnob	anyway, i gotta run.. i'll mess w/ it later	00:12
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KotCzarny	http://it.slashdot.org/it/08/04/19/1149219.shtml	00:18
KotCzarny	hehe	00:18
RST38h	beating on a dead horse.	00:19
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fysa	personal menu is so nice.	00:21
fysa	so is the new adv-backlight.	00:22
KotCzarny	new?	00:22
KotCzarny	what's new?	00:22
fysa	newer	00:22
fysa	with volume control	00:22
KotCzarny	it had it already	00:22
fysa	I was using an old old version ;)	00:22
KotCzarny	:)	00:22
KotCzarny	ok	00:22
RST38h	personal menu would benefit from a shorter opening time	00:23
fysa	takes about 2 seconds here	00:23
KotCzarny	does it?	00:23
KotCzarny	O.o	00:23
KotCzarny	mine opens quite fast	00:24
fysa	maybe a bit less?	00:24
GeneralAntilles	Seriously old version, fysa.	00:24
fysa	GeneralAntilles, haha, yeah, it didn't even have a border around the backlight control ;)	00:24
RST38h	It probably depends on the number of items	00:24
KotCzarny	hmm	00:24
KotCzarny	personal menu speed for me is the same as regular menu and web menu	00:24
KotCzarny	~15 icons in mine	00:24
RST38h	it does take 1-2 seconds for me	00:25
RST38h	but I have 30+ icons	00:25
fysa	regular menu pops up preetty quickly	00:25
fysa	almost instant in comparison	00:25
KotCzarny	icons count can explain	00:25
KotCzarny	:)	00:25
KotCzarny	ok, shopping time, bbl	00:26
fysa	regular menu probably caches everything and personal menu loads icons on demand?	00:26
RST38h	fysa: Regular menu does never allow so many icons	00:26
RST38h	All right, time to hit the bed.	00:27
fysa	yeah, but if you reduce personal menu to the count of the regular menu, it still is much slower. not that I am complaining. :)	00:27
fysa	fewer touches and not having to re-organize after an update is good enough for me	00:27
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fysa	do we have notify-send?	00:32
fysa	I see it in sardine.	00:32
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Tu13es	is there a way to format the n770 removable memory card?	00:42
Tu13es	ah, foun dit	00:42
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leo2007	good evening	01:04
leo2007	where to buy n810wimax?	01:04
Navi	It's not out yet, sorry	01:08
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fysa	have notify-send working. just need to figure out how xchat is using it, and why it's not working.	01:30
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bauglir	maemo	01:32
Navi	omeam	01:32
lcuk	mameo	01:32
bauglir	why	01:32
komputiko	anyone knows how install amarok on kde?	01:32
Navi	Depends on your distro	01:32
bauglir	why	01:32
Navi	Gah, now I'm wishing I had an N810	01:33
bauglir	maemo	01:33
Navi	that keyboard would be useful with dwm :/	01:33
komputiko	on kde n800 version	01:33
Navi	oh	01:33
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Navi	Has someone built it?	01:33
lcuk	komputiko, so you got kde working then	01:33
komputiko	yeah!!	01:34
komputiko	:D	01:34
Navi	That monster wouldn't work too well	01:34
lcuk	cool, was there a howto somewhere that you followed or just hacking about till it worked?	01:34
bauglir	maemo	01:34
komputiko	and what's the best media player then...	01:34
komputiko	i love amarok >_<	01:34
lcuk	bauglir, sorry you are in the wrong channel, you need to enter the #iphone channel and start posting things like that	01:34
bauglir	Am I not in maemo?	01:35
lcuk	no, this is the eee channel	01:35
bauglir	you're wrong	01:35
lcuk	ahhh well, at least you are talking properly now :) enjoy your stay	01:36
MangoFusion	anyone here know how to install kde on my iphone?	01:36
MangoFusion	:P	01:37
lcuk	yes, but it involves a screwdriver	01:37
MangoFusion	well thats my idea down the drain. don't have a screwdriver	01:38
fysa	incase anyone cares: http://tablet.usizo.com/files/notify-send	01:38
bauglir	maemo	01:38
fysa	command-line libnotify tool for generating popup notifications	01:38
fysa	just copy to /usr/bin/ or /usr/local/bin/	01:38
fysa	can be useful in scripts..	01:39
bauglir	mamo	01:39
lcuk	who does it notify though?	01:39
bauglir	maemo	01:39
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fysa	it generates a pop-up message. i.e., "You have new mail."	01:41
lcuk	cool, one of the top right hand side inactive ones? or an actual clickable "ok" message?	01:41
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bauglir	maemo	01:41
fysa	inactive ones -- they will go into the 'queue' of the lower-left application switcher icon	01:41
bauglir	mamo	01:41
bauglir	maemo	01:41
lcuk	bauglir, you spelt it wrong, try again	01:41
fysa	you can specify an icon, timeout and a message	01:42
fysa	and an urgency..	01:42
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lcuk	fysa, thats actually kinda cool :)	01:42
fysa	I'm thinking of using passwordless ssh keys to have my desktop/server send remote notifications to the tablet	01:42
fysa	i.e., "rsync backup complete"	01:42
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lcuk	would you send them to wherever your tablet is?	01:43
lcuk	or just when connected at home	01:43
fysa	this notify-send comes with libnotify, but for some reason it wasn't excluded.	01:43
fysa	I would use dyndns.	01:43
fysa	and a local router mapping to match..	01:43
fysa	well, that won't always work.	01:43
fysa	so maybe just at home.	01:44
lcuk	would it make sense to have a deamon connection from the device to somewhere you control	01:44
bauglir	why	01:44
fysa	maybe you could use ssh to connect to your home server and map a port in reverse, to allow the home server to access it back. ;)	01:44
lcuk	so then the notifications can be obtained whenever they occur	01:44
fysa	incase you come up on WiFi behind someone's NAT ;)	01:45
lcuk	well thats the usual method for connection	01:45
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fysa	anyway, my main need for notify-send was so XChat could generate proper notifications	01:45
fysa	so I can receive xchat messages while the app is minimized	01:46
fysa	haven't quite gotten this to work properly yet though. I think the internal command-line that xchat uses is incompatible with the alpha/beta xchat deb we have now.	01:46
lcuk	cool, just have your client machine post something in the chan then and your xchat will hear it and respond	01:46
fysa	i.e., some path is wrong.	01:46
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lcuk	"fysa: your backup is done"	01:46
fysa	yeah, that could work too actually.	01:46
fysa	but xchat itself spawns notify-send	01:47
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fysa	the newer version may use libnotify directly..	01:47
fysa	there is also a libnotify module for python	01:47
lcuk	excellent	01:47
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lcuk	time for me to head back into vmware. lots to do still.	01:48
GeneralAntilles	zeroconf maybe?	01:50
chrisak-	yay rtcomm irc does work <happiness>	01:50
GeneralAntilles	xchat is better.	01:50
chrisak-	yes, i just saww your post saying so, and do use it :) But I had been bothered by the fact that I didn't realizee how to	01:52
chrisak-	join channel w/ rtcomm till now :)	01:52
fysa	xchat is excellent. xchat+bitlbee. :)	01:52
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chrisak-	antilles, you might know... it rtcomm intended to be official in diablo?	01:59
GeneralAntilles	Presumably	01:59
GeneralAntilles	It's not going anywhere in any case.	02:00
chrisak-	cool, thanks	02:00
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cyberholic	Good evening my friends. Does anyone of you can help me about REST/SOAP ?	02:02
gribouille	when will the next version of the OS be released ?	02:03
cyberholic	January 2013..... not!	02:03
gribouille	what are the languages supported by the maemo SDK ?	02:06
cyberholic	i can not tell you mon ami.	02:06
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GeneralAntilles	gribouille, "Q2 2008"	02:08
cyberholic	General my friend: you are kidding! So quickly?	02:09
gribouille	GeneralAntilles, GeneralAntilles we are in Q2 2008, aren't we ?	02:09
GeneralAntilles	Diablo/maemo 4.1, cyberholic.	02:10
GeneralAntilles	We're more or less overdue compared to previous update cycles.	02:10
GeneralAntilles	Yes, gribouille.	02:10
GeneralAntilles	But just barely.	02:10
cyberholic	So the name will change from chinook to Diablo ?	02:10
gribouille	IMHO, the OS lacks polish and coherence	02:10
GeneralAntilles	They're going back to the OS2006 naming scheme.	02:10
GeneralAntilles	One codename per update.	02:10
gribouille	how many people are working on the OS ?	02:11
GeneralAntilles	gribouille, not all that many.	02:11
GeneralAntilles	The maemo project is very lightly staffed.	02:11
gribouille	GeneralAntilles, do you contribute ?	02:11
cyberholic	Gernall: are there any rumours about an included PIM?	02:11
GeneralAntilles	Only on the community side.	02:11
GeneralAntilles	cyberholic, PIM isn't part of the NIT plan.	02:12
GeneralAntilles	Use GPE or Pimlico	02:12
GeneralAntilles	They both work fine.	02:12
lcuk	or find/create your own and get it working well. YOU could become the head of PIM development for the maemo platform :)	02:13
cyberholic	well, i have beenw orking nearly 3 days to find a way to sync the device contacts with Facebook, yahoo or google and finally i am getting more and more into plaxo.com ..... the only problem: i have never ever worked with REST. Now i get some data on my browser but do not know how to handle it :(	02:13
cyberholic	Oh and: i am planning to realise a PIM for my n800 :)	02:13
lcuk	:) cyber	02:14
lcuk	work on what you believe in and see where it takes you	02:14
gribouille	cyberholic, do you think we need another one PIM ?	02:14
cyberholic	lcuk my friend! Good evening!: have you seen my Mojocafe radio?	02:14
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cyberholic	grib: it is not about "another PIM" - it is about a pim that syncs with open standards so taht you do not need to enter the data on your device.	02:15
lcuk	i havent seen much on the mojo side, ive been working towards rapid fullscreen updating on the 810	02:15
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lcuk	and seeing what little modules i can build :)	02:15
cyberholic	lcuk: i also had so much work that i could not add new mojos for days. Check the radio whenever you want to: http://www.mojocafe.net/radio	02:15
cyberholic	lcuk: and tell me if you want me to add your personal radio station, and at what frequency you want it!	02:15
chrisak-	that radio was cool :)	02:16
lcuk	i dont listen to radio at all on any device, but i am sure others do. does it continue running if you go to other mojos?	02:16
cyberholic	thnx. The next version will have volume buttons. It made me go bezerk getting back from fullscreen to put volume down. Soooo not-userfruendly.	02:16
cyberholic	lcuk: no, it is not a mojo. it is a single page. It looks like a oldschool-radio where you can change frequency. it is definitely NOT userfriendly :)	02:17
lcuk	put it in your mojos and make it non modal so people can enjoy tunes whilst they mojo around	02:18
lcuk	or at least have a popout so they can just switch pages ;)	02:18
cyberholic	lcuk: yeah, good idea! but then i will have to add a "mute" button... wait... you just brought me to a nice idea! I can make an alarm clock that wakes you up with your prefered web-radio!.... let me write this down!	02:18
gribouille	is there a way to stop the blinking red-white icon in the status bar ?	02:19
gribouille	it is extremely irritating	02:19
cyberholic	grib: just get it off the status bar from the applets stuff.	02:19
gribouille	how ?	02:20
cyberholic	my device is not on at the moment. Go to home, applets or at the settings PANELS. sorry for beeing so short but i can not remember by heart at the moment.	02:21
bauglir	why	02:22
cyberholic	ok. i have to go to bed now. See you later my friends.	02:22
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gribouille	ok, I've deleted my account	02:23
bauglir	why	02:23
gribouille	unused	02:23
bauglir	why	02:24
gribouille	for example, something I find quite annoying, is the absence of "recently used applications" entry in the menu	02:25
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bauglir	why	02:26
MangoFusion	all you will ever need to use is the web browser. who needs a silly recently used applications menu	02:27
MangoFusion	what is it, a workstation?	02:27
MangoFusion	;)	02:27
bauglir	why	02:28
bauglir	Poor MangoFusion	02:28
gribouille	MangoFusion, there are a few more apps	02:28
bauglir	poor gribouille	02:28
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bauglir	poor ken	02:28
gribouille	bauglir, very useful contribution	02:29
bauglir	do you admit you're poor?	02:29
MangoFusion	0_0	02:30
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* KotCzarny is poor too		02:31
* fysa is too poor for a slideout keyboard		02:34
fysa	the class divide is ruthless.	02:34
bauglir	poor fysa	02:35
bauglir	why are you so poor, fysa?	02:35
MangoFusion	workers unite, lets overthrow the bourgeoisie!	02:36
KotCzarny	:)	02:36
fysa	<- married	02:36
KotCzarny	just give us toys	02:36
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KotCzarny	preferably free, unlocked and without spyware	02:36
KotCzarny	:)	02:36
fysa	when you're married, no matter how much you make, you're always poor ;)	02:37
KotCzarny	;)	02:37
KotCzarny	yeah, women	02:37
bauglir	There seems to be an alien pubic hair in my Gin.	02:39
KotCzarny	not enough gin then	02:39
gribouille	why is it so hard to move applets on the desktop ?	02:39
bauglir	Never seen it before in my life. Have you?	02:40
* KotCzarny looks		02:40
KotCzarny	nope	02:40
KotCzarny	not mine	02:40
GeneralAntilles	Hard, gribouille?	02:42
GeneralAntilles	Just tap and drag.	02:42
gribouille	I can do it with the finger, but not with the stylus	02:43
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KotCzarny	lol	02:43
KotCzarny	perv	02:43
gribouille	I don't want to tap to strongly on the screen	02:44
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KotCzarny	don't worry, it can bear with strong taps	02:44
lcuk	it can also take a great deal of pressure slowly. my missus was leaning her elbow on the screen and resting hand on chin whilst she idly browser the web. she said the color drained from my face when i saw her	02:46
KotCzarny	;)	02:46
KotCzarny	women	02:46
KotCzarny	but at least you know now	02:46
lcuk	i would rather never know. i think removing the hard cover from the 770 was a bad design choice	02:47
KotCzarny	i agree	02:47
lcuk	i just rest a book over my cradle now when im leaving it for a while	02:48
KotCzarny	my backpack is a harsh environment	02:48
lcuk	tshe lost the pouch i got with my 810	02:48
lcuk	that was kinda ok but i was always nervous about leaving it in my pocket	02:48
KotCzarny	:)	02:48
KotCzarny	i believe you can buy/make a hardcover	02:48
lcuk	the one i had for my loox was hard inside so im just using that	02:49
KotCzarny	metal plate + 2 straps	02:49
lcuk	the loox one is fine, its got a clip and velcro opening etc - its just got the wrong name on the cover	02:49
KotCzarny	:)	02:49
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GeneralAntilles	The hardcover is overrated.	02:51
KotCzarny	better than nothing	02:51
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GeneralAntilles	kickstand > hardcover	02:52
lcuk	i pondered closing my cradle with the other half of the chess board (I had to get a small piece of wood from somewhere..) but then i realised if i slam down a heavy wooden cover and ive left the stylus there i could say bye bye to my tab	02:52
KotCzarny	:>	02:53
lcuk	(also going to be a problem with laptops and pens)	02:53
fysa	oh it works. copy that notify-send to /usr/bin/ and xchat alerts will work.	02:55
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KotCzarny	http://break.com/classic-clips/dont-let-this-girl-punch-you_1.html?ref=track10	02:55
KotCzarny	0wned	02:55
KotCzarny	:>	02:55
KotCzarny	gah. tracker tag	02:56
KotCzarny	http://break.com/classic-clips/dont-let-this-girl-punch-you_1.html	02:56
KotCzarny	better without	02:56
KotCzarny	:)	02:56
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fang64	lol	02:57
fang64	terrible	02:57
fysa	very helpful for IM via xchat	02:57
fysa	or channel highlight	02:58
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fysa	;)	03:05
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KotCzarny	probably funny for some: http://imagechan.net/img/5353/Black%20holes/	03:15
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seebs	This is probably one of those stupid newbie questions, but I can't get alarmd's exec_name to Do What I Want. I also see no logs of errors. I was doing a test command of 'cp /dev/null /tmp/testfile', just to verify that it's working, and it doesn't seem to have any effect.	04:21
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seebs	Hmm. Looks as though there's no word-splitting, so the exec_name has to be the name of a command, no arguments. Is that right?	04:24
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z00dax_n810	hi	04:34
seebs	Hello.	04:37
z00dax_n810	hey seebs	04:38
z00dax_n810	not sure if i am looking at the right place, ut i cant find any info on state of qt4 on maemo	04:39
seebs	Hmm. No clue.	04:39
z00dax_n810	what I really want is a freenx client here, and i am happy to hack qtnx and nxcl into shape	04:39
seebs	I'm trying to learn about the exec_name feature of alarmd, and I'm failing. :)	04:39
seebs	I suppose I can just track down the source.	04:40
KotCzarny	hmm	04:40
KotCzarny	man alarmd ?	04:40
KotCzarny	:)	04:40
z00dax_n810	but first qt4 port is way overboard, given the amount of time I have	04:40
seebs	alarmd's documentation does not answer my question.	04:40
seebs	I pretty much need to read the source. :)	04:41
KotCzarny	ahm	04:41
z00dax_n810	use the source young skywalker	04:41
KotCzarny	how's the alarmd different from atd ?	04:41
KotCzarny	:)	04:41
seebs	Hmm.	04:42
seebs	Well, that's odd. The source is not matching the behavior I think I'm observing.	04:42
lcuk	make sure you have updated your belief sources	04:43
z00dax_n810	seebs, more dope / coffee / beer :)	04:43
KotCzarny	make a script what will do what you want without args ?	04:43
seebs	Yeah, but alarmd is using g_shell_parse_argv. So it SHOULD be splitting.	04:43
KotCzarny	maybe it's splitting but just discarding	04:44
KotCzarny	or expects params in different variable?	04:44
seebs	I don't think so. There's a single field in the object, which is passed to g_shell_parse_argv, so it should get split. And there's just one command line in the C API.	04:44
z00dax_n810	haha garage.m.o ssl cert expired ?	04:44
KotCzarny	005337-White-Obama-Better-than-black-Hillary.jpg	04:45
KotCzarny	lol	04:45
seebs	Well, I guess I must have been doing it wrong, because it's splitting now. Hmm. Maybe no default path?	04:48
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KotCzarny	heh	04:48
KotCzarny	i think at least /bin should be	04:48
KotCzarny	try execing 'set' as the command	04:48
seebs	It's not passing these to a shell, it's execing. If I exec '/tmp/args.sh foo bar', it gets foo and bar as arguments. If I exec '/bin/cp /dev/null /tmp/testfile', nothing happens.	04:50
seebs	Hmm.	04:50
seebs	Oh, duh.	04:51
seebs	cp of a device fails when run by non-root. I am SO stupid.	04:51
KotCzarny	:)	04:51
KotCzarny	also for devices you should use -a or something	04:52
KotCzarny	i think	04:52
seebs	I didn't actually want a cp of the real device, I just wanted an empty file. Heh.	04:52
KotCzarny	you should have used 'touch' then	04:52
KotCzarny	:)	04:52
seebs	Yeah.	04:52
seebs	Cool! I think I have a working shell interface to the alarm API.	04:56
KotCzarny	:)	04:56
KotCzarny	what i like about *nix is flexibility	04:56
KotCzarny	scripting and programming of every kind	04:56
seebs	Yeah.	04:57
seebs	This is SO close to being able to replace my PDA.	04:57
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KotCzarny	:>	04:58
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fysa	anyone here using T-Zones?	05:54
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Navi	Anyone have any idea on how openbox, kde, and xfce4 are started in maemo?	06:34
KotCzarny	maybe the same as on pc?	06:34
Navi	Meh, whatever. I'll just start a new Xomap server	06:40
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Navi	Gah	07:19
Navi	I can stop hildon, but the script for stopping matchbox doesn't work	07:20
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fysa	change runlevel?	07:26
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Navi	ha	07:43
Navi	using matchbox-remote to tell matchbox to exit multiple times in a row made my N800 die	07:44
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* trollasaurus conducts a small memorial service for Navi's N800		07:46
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Navi	ahaha, hax	07:49
Navi	(matchbox-remote -exit) && dwm made it die too :D	07:49
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Navi	I wish penguinbait would be a bit more public with his window manager running knowledge.	07:50
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ac7ss	how dead did it make it?	07:55
Navi	watchdog rebooted it, s'all	07:56
trollasaurus	I was kidding.	07:58
ac7ss	watchdog = program?	08:01
ac7ss	\|\| person	08:01
KotCzarny	dog	08:01
ac7ss	sorry I disconnected. was watchdog = prog \|\| person	08:01
KotCzarny	dog	08:01
trollasaurus	Arf arf arf.	08:02
* KotCzarny throws a bit		08:03
trollasaurus	num nums!	08:03
KotCzarny	good doggie, now watch this place while i go killing sorceress	08:03
trollasaurus	Arf.	08:04
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Navi	http://linux.softpedia.com/progScreenshots/The-Launcher-Screenshot-32488.html <- cool beans	08:13
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Italodance	hello :D	08:15
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Italodance	is there available car game for n800?	08:18
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pupnik_	yes Italodance but not very good	08:43
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pupnik	perhaps 'terrible' is a better word	08:46
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KotCzarny	carmageddon is nice for s60	08:55
KotCzarny	:)	08:55
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leo2007	Navi: It is being sold here: http://www.bestpricedbrands.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=1062	09:48
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Navi	Funny that they claim to have 12 WiMAX tablets in stock	09:54
trollasaurus	Why is that funny ?	09:57
KotCzarny	it was ironic	09:57
KotCzarny	i think	09:57
KotCzarny	or sarcastic	09:58
trollasaurus	I don't get it.	09:59
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lopz	night	10:24
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Dist	Is there a flasher that can flash N810 with intel mac?	10:47
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Tybor	Hi all you maemo hackers...	10:52
Tybor	Just a dumb question... How can I mount the internal mmc with exec flag (automatically) in order to execute the programs that I'm compiling? I'm using the internal (2GB) mmc as "developer space"	10:53
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KotCzarny	heh	10:53
KotCzarny	vfat is a bad fs for that	10:53
KotCzarny	but if you want just do mount -o remount,exec	10:54
KotCzarny	(with proper mount point)	10:54
Tybor	KotCzarny: I know.. I'm tempted to reformat it with ext2 (no gain in using a journalized fs on an mmc)	10:55
KotCzarny	another brainwashed user..	10:55
lcuk	shhh, its a conspiracy between the fs designers and mmc producers ;)	10:56
KotCzarny	you would see the gains after first os reboot :)	10:56
Tybor	KotCzarny: why you say so? I was saying ext2 because I once read that journalized fs are not that good for flash-based memories	10:56
KotCzarny	'once read' ..	10:56
KotCzarny	technology changes	10:57
KotCzarny	what could be true year ago	10:57
lcuk	i once read that using flash memory for anything would have it totally die within about a week	10:57
KotCzarny	can be reversed by new technology	10:57
lcuk	but that was about 10 years ago	10:57
KotCzarny	yeah, read damaging flash memory, those were times..	10:57
Tybor	Understood. You must admit that ext2 is "usually" faster that ext3 and other journalized fs, is it??	10:58
KotCzarny	actually it would be faster because of necessary journal writes	10:58
KotCzarny	and flash usually sucks at multiple writes	10:58
Tybor	I just need to compile somme SmartEiffel applications on an mmc and run them... I just don't care a lot about which fs I shall reformat the mmc :)	10:59
lcuk	tybor, depends on what you use it for - if you are planning on using the internal memory for anything repeated i would advise the best thing to do would be get an external removable mmc plugged in and format that however you want. that way even if it goes titsup its not locked in your device	10:59
KotCzarny	erm. that should be 'actually ext2 would be faster than ext3'	10:59
lcuk	the worst thing you could do is damage your internal mmc :)	11:00
KotCzarny	by which time there will be nokia n999	11:00
KotCzarny	or something	11:00
* Tybor looks for the fattest mmc he could find in italy		11:01
lcuk	and as we see now, people buy n770s	11:01
KotCzarny	tybor: you could be interested in booting off mmc :)	11:01
fang64	well doesn't it get progressively smaller instead of dying completely	11:02
fang64	get*	11:02
KotCzarny	fang64: depends which sector dies	11:02
KotCzarny	:)	11:02
fang64	well flash memory controls I know they can fail completely depending on their design	11:02
KotCzarny	mhm	11:03
fang64	reflashing tsop flash typically only allots for around 1000 writes	11:03
fang64	after that your screwed lol	11:03
Tybor	Btw, is here a way to use only pigdin instead of the nativee maemo IM?	11:03
KotCzarny	tybor: yes, there is a pidgin package	11:04
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fang64	I think some PSP owners have suffered this killing of flash memory from overflashing the firmware lol	11:04
Tybor	KotCzarny: I'm already using it.. I was wondering if I can turn off the native maemo chat	11:05
KotCzarny	hmm	11:05
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KotCzarny	i don't know, i usually use ssh	11:05
KotCzarny	:)	11:05
fang64	ssh then irssi?	11:05
KotCzarny	epic	11:05
fang64	ah that's right	11:05
fang64	your the openwrt guy XD	11:06
KotCzarny	;)	11:06
KotCzarny	'you're'	11:06
KotCzarny	'you are'	11:06
fang64	indeed	11:06
fang64	fail	11:06
fang64	lol	11:06
fang64	<-- tired as hell	11:06
KotCzarny	now repeat that 10 times	11:06
KotCzarny	:)	11:06
KotCzarny	practice makes perfect	11:06
fang64	well I usually don't confuse those, but lack of sleep makes you not think	11:07
KotCzarny	yup	11:07
KotCzarny	it's a brain killer	11:07
fang64	ever heard of afs?	11:08
KotCzarny	yup	11:08
KotCzarny	never used it though	11:08
fang64	ah, I heard someone was porting it to the n800	11:08
fang64	well N8x0	11:08
fang64	it's really a good system setup for sharing files.	11:09
KotCzarny	i prefer http/sshfs :)	11:09
fang64	well in a college setting	11:09
KotCzarny	http :)	11:09
fang64	when you need to mass propagate read only data	11:10
fang64	ranging in the 2 terabyte range	11:10
fang64	for research	11:10
KotCzarny	hehe	11:10
KotCzarny	ok	11:10
KotCzarny	:)	11:10
fang64	I don't think http will do that well	11:10
fang64	send 2tb over http uhhh	11:10
KotCzarny	but then again writing it to hdd could be faster	11:10
fang64	depends on how afs is setup	11:10
fang64	afs uses local replication	11:10
fang64	the nodes cache a huge amount of data	11:11
KotCzarny	p2p could be nice	11:11
fang64	it's sorta like that	11:11
fang64	but not realy	11:11
fang64	raelly*	11:11
KotCzarny	assuming more than one person needs that data	11:11
fang64	really* lol	11:11
fang64	yup	11:11
KotCzarny	go get some sleep	11:11
KotCzarny	:)	11:11
fang64	yah I'm at my limit X.x	11:11
fang64	cya	11:11
KotCzarny	k k:)	11:12
* Tybor switch to the ubuntu clamshell iBook		11:19
Tybor	see you soon	11:19
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Jaffa	Morning, all	11:42
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* lcuk_lap has a working nipple		11:47
lcuk_lap	(and also a working network)	11:48
KotCzarny	don't overwork it	11:48
KotCzarny	;)	11:48
* KotCzarny kills off bahamut		11:48
lcuk_lap	i apparantly cannot do a secure network	11:48
KotCzarny	make a vpn or only allow your machines via ssh	11:49
lcuk_lap	ok everyone in manchester, there is an unsecured 10ma network running, if you are within about 5 foot of my computer you have internet access	11:49
lcuk_lap	its ok, ive dropped power :) no point in shouting	11:49
KotCzarny	ah, yes, lowering txpower works too	11:49
KotCzarny	:>	11:49
lcuk_lap	everything started working once i got the fan running	11:50
KotCzarny	unless someone has super duper sensitive antenna	11:50
lcuk_lap	me thinks it doesnt like overheating itself	11:50
lcuk_lap	i think i would notice if someone is stood outside with a wok	11:50
KotCzarny	who does?	11:50
KotCzarny	:)	11:50
lcuk_lap	this is certainly bigger and heavier than the 810	11:51
lcuk_lap	and i keep wanting to touch the screen	11:51
lcuk_lap	fluffin ubuntu wants to download 300mb of updates	11:52
lcuk_lap	its as bad as windows ;)	11:52
KotCzarny	fun	11:52
KotCzarny	:)	11:52
lcuk_lap	ive got a command line thing which i can get to work directly from a console after i sudo su	11:52
lcuk_lap	but i cannot get it to work directly from a sudo line	11:53
KotCzarny	su - doesn't work?	11:53
lcuk_lap	i think its something to do with where the redirection goes. no, it works if i am in an su console	11:53
lcuk_lap	but i want it scripted and hence need it calling directly within a script	11:54
KotCzarny	:)	11:54
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lcuk_lap	this is the line: echo "force_on:1" >/proc/acpi/toshiba/fan	11:55
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lcuk_lap	if i do: sudo echo "force_on:1" >/proc/acpi/toshiba/fan it doesnt work because the redirect comes from the results of the sudo	11:55
lcuk_lap	instead of the result of the echo	11:55
KotCzarny	you can always make a helper..	11:55
KotCzarny	:)	11:55
lcuk_lap	thats what i thought the script was? is there a way to run the whole echo line including the redirect from the sudo?	11:56
KotCzarny	you can't chmod +s a script	11:57
lcuk_lap	i cant just quote the entire line because i am already using quotes in the command line	11:57
KotCzarny	that you can only do with binaries	11:57
lcuk_lap	no but ubuntu can make it executable	11:57
lcuk_lap	or rather "run this script as a program£"	11:57
KotCzarny	executable != binary	11:57
KotCzarny	you can execute both, but one calls interpreter	11:57
KotCzarny	and interpreter usually drops off chmod +s flag	11:58
Jaffa	lcuk_lap: you can use 'tee' to do the kind of thing you want	11:58
Jaffa	lcuk_lap: echo force_on:1 \| sudo tee /proc/acpi/toshiba/fan	11:59
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lcuk_lap	thx jaffa, but i just did some more checking and this appears to work: sudo su -c 'echo "force_on:1" >/proc/acpi/toshiba/fan'	12:04
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lcuk_lap	i forgot about the 2 types of quotes doh	12:04
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KotCzarny	:)	12:04
* lcuk_lap might actually start to get all this eventually :)		12:05
lcuk_lap	downloads complete :) its installing all its crap now. i might actually swap main machine with laptop to force me to configure it	12:05
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* lcuk_lap wonders if he will be storyboarding apps before the end of the day		12:11
Tybor	oh my! chinook's kernel does not support anything else thatn jffs2, msdos and vfat!	12:12
KotCzarny	tybor, just insmod the proper modules..	12:12
qwerty12	Compile your own ;)	12:12
lcuk_lap	then make all your partitions fat and dont worry ;)	12:12
Italodance	ummm what is this theme? https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/795/docReader-0.1-operationtype.png	12:13
Tybor	KotCzarny: I've been looking for proper modules but it seems they haven't compiled them in	12:13
qwerty12	A theme that doesn't exist for OS2008	12:13
qwerty12	Tybor, ext2 & 3 modules can be found in initfs.	12:14
KotCzarny	tybor, then you were looking in the wrong places..	12:14
lcuk_lap	apple mac on n810!	12:14
KotCzarny	as they are on your device already	12:14
lcuk_lap	BOOM!	12:14
qwerty12	in initfs	12:14
Tybor	mhmm...	12:14
* Tybor rechecks		12:14
KotCzarny	look in /mnt/something	12:14
qwerty12	/mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6something	12:14
Italodance	hi qwerty12 yes that's a nice apple theme	12:15
qwerty12	Hi, Which doesn't exist for Os2008	12:15
qwerty12	http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/modules-2.2007.50-2-custom.tar.gz for more fs modules	12:15
Italodance	:(	12:15
lcuk_lap	ok can i ask a question about file locations. in windows, i have an application path (which can store app global data), an all users path (which can store data for everyone on the machine) and a current user data area. from what i see on linux this is possible but i dont know the locations (sorry for length)	12:17
Jaffa	lcuk_lap: generally, app's global data (but not configuration) is in something like /usr/share/<app_name>	12:17
Jaffa	Current user data area is typically ~/.<app_name>	12:18
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* Jaffa does a bit of bugzilla tidying		12:20
lcuk_lap	thx jaffa, but the missing one is machine wide data. ie suppose i wanted a shared message db so i could leave a message for tracy when she logs in. where would i put it?	12:20
KotCzarny	/var/lib/<app_name>	12:20
KotCzarny	or /var/queue/<app_name> is possible too	12:20
KotCzarny	do ls /var and guess	12:21
KotCzarny	:)	12:21
lcuk_lap	thx kot, the messagedb was only an example but ill take a look	12:21
lcuk_lap	it seems like linux just sprays data around	12:22
* lcuk_lap actually thinks window is a tiny weenie bit more logicial in this dept ;)		12:22
KotCzarny	not true	12:22
KotCzarny	:)	12:22
lcuk_lap	i know lol just like to get heckles up#	12:22
KotCzarny	i hate it when windows apps put data in c:\windows	12:23
KotCzarny	etc	12:23
KotCzarny	;)	12:23
KotCzarny	and pretend that they haven't installed anything	12:23
KotCzarny	no no	12:23
KotCzarny	;)	12:23
lcuk_lap	my windows apps never do :)	12:23
KotCzarny	have you ever installed ie ?	12:23
KotCzarny	;)	12:23
lcuk_lap	thats not mine tho :P and besides ff works better	12:24
KotCzarny	btw. you should know about meaning of /usr, /var etc	12:24
lcuk_lap	usr isnt what i originally thought i know that much	12:24
KotCzarny	usr is mounted after boot	12:24
lcuk_lap	everytime i see it i go "not user"	12:24
KotCzarny	so anything not necessary to boot should go to /usr	12:24
lcuk_lap	meh, install only 60% complete why cant computer be as fast as my network	12:25
KotCzarny	at least you don't have to click 'next'	12:26
KotCzarny	:)	12:26
KotCzarny	lcuk: http://www.comptechdoc.org/os/linux/usersguide/linux_ugfilestruct.html	12:27
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KotCzarny	a little old, but roughly should give you some information	12:28
lcuk_lap	thx kot :) i never managed to find something so concise	12:28
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lcuk_lap	ahhh, so if im reading that right on a full linux system i could find /home/gary and /home/tracy?	12:30
KotCzarny	:)	12:30
KotCzarny	yes	12:30
KotCzarny	and /home/ftp sometimes	12:30
KotCzarny	;)	12:30
lcuk_lap	no thats ok, but when logged in as one of them that is ~	12:31
KotCzarny	yes, it's substituted by shell to the proper dir	12:31
KotCzarny	in binary programs you have to resolve it yourself though	12:31
KotCzarny	(i think there's a function for that)	12:31
lcuk_lap	? so i cannot do fopen("~.liqbase/brain");	12:32
lcuk_lap	or whatever the proper line would be	12:32
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KotCzarny	nope	12:34
KotCzarny	i think you can create a directory with '~' in it	12:34
Jaffa	Indeed	12:35
KotCzarny	because only char that's forbidden is '/' and \n	12:35
Jaffa	lcuk_lap: you can resolve the environment variable 'HOME'	12:35
lcuk_lap	but isnt home the base dir which contains all users? or is %HOME the equivilent of ~	12:36
KotCzarny	$HOME	12:36
KotCzarny	forget '%'s	12:36
KotCzarny	:)	12:36
lcuk_lap	ok you know what i meant though :P	12:36
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KotCzarny	yes	12:36
KotCzarny	but start thinking *nixish	12:36
KotCzarny	:)	12:36
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lcuk_lap	i would have tried it once and then worked out what was wrong	12:37
KotCzarny	k k	12:37
Italodance	external HDD can work with n800 usb yes?	12:37
lcuk_lap	powered i would imagine so	12:37
KotCzarny	do: man getenv	12:37
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KotCzarny	getenv('HOME'); will be the eqiv in c of $HOME	12:38
lcuk_lap	i will once i get this lump off my knee and get comfy. too many wires around (i just lost the mouse somewhere in duvet ;)	12:38
KotCzarny	you can ssh into that machine from tablet	12:39
KotCzarny	;)	12:39
KotCzarny	and read manuals on it	12:39
Italodance	can someone reply me?	12:40
KotCzarny	lcuk replied you	12:41
lcuk_lap	try it italo	12:41
lcuk_lap	i havent tried a drive, but i used my mem stick. as long as the drive is self powered i dont see why it would be any different	12:41
KotCzarny	lcuk: missing ntfs driver ;)	12:41
Italodance	ok lcuk_lap	12:42
lcuk_lap	most drives ive seen are still fat	12:42
KotCzarny	portable drives are usually owned by m$ windows	12:42
KotCzarny	fat on 80gb?	12:42
KotCzarny	not fun	12:42
KotCzarny	;)	12:42
qwerty12	solmumaha, went and added usb ntfs support to N800 via fuse	12:42
qwerty12	works well from what I've read, just plug in the drive	12:43
KotCzarny	qwerty12: i know it's possible, i only point what could be an obstacle	12:43
KotCzarny	:)	12:43
KotCzarny	i use ntfs-3g too	12:43
qwerty12	:), fair enough	12:43
lcuk_lap	right, this has finished updating, maybe now i am on an actual device i can find an ide with sane documentation and file handling	12:43
KotCzarny	heh..	12:43
KotCzarny	you have documentation..	12:43
KotCzarny	use 'man' command	12:43
KotCzarny	and: 'apropos'	12:44
* lcuk_lap tries apt-get install visual-studio-6 and msdn ;)		12:44
KotCzarny	and 'info' (sometimes)	12:44
KotCzarny	that could work with wine i think	12:44
lcuk_lap	yer but not with linux apis	12:44
lcuk_lap	i dont wanna develop windows`apps in linux, but i like the old style ms ide :)	12:45
KotCzarny	:)	12:45
* lcuk_lap spits on .net		12:45
KotCzarny	i think there was a free borland ide studio	12:45
KotCzarny	something named with 'k' at the beginning	12:45
lcuk_lap	kylix	12:45
KotCzarny	yeah	12:45
KotCzarny	that's the name	12:45
lcuk_lap	aint that pascal++	12:46
lcuk_lap	not that thats a problem	12:46
* KotCzarny never used it		12:46
* lcuk_lap didnt either		12:46
KotCzarny	i always use mc for editing	12:46
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lcuk_lap	im seriously pondering just building my own	12:47
KotCzarny	how about emacs?	12:47
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lcuk_lap	which will do all the "man *" and apropos and info stuff in the background and display for me	12:47
KotCzarny	:)	12:47
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KotCzarny	i think it's doable	12:48
qwerty12	before I go and mount initfs, does anyone know the linuxrc commands that show the picture of the 770 when you are in rd mode?	12:48
lcuk_lap	tbh, all the manuals wont help me - i need 2 killer features.	12:48
KotCzarny	name them	12:48
lcuk_lap	"find out what i have to include and link to obtain api function X()"	12:48
KotCzarny	grep	12:49
KotCzarny	:)	12:49
lcuk_lap	"open this sodding header file when i want to see its contents"	12:49
KotCzarny	i use mc for that	12:49
KotCzarny	:)	12:49
lcuk_lap	it annoys me that i want to read more and the editors just wont open for me	12:49
lcuk_lap	hmm must reboot first but apt-get install mc appears to want to work	12:50
KotCzarny	to want to work?	12:50
lcuk_lap	yer but its locked out at the mo	12:51
KotCzarny	mine grammar parser failed	12:51
KotCzarny	:)	12:51
lcuk_lap	i just did a massive system update and its moaning at me to reboot and apt is telling me its locked	12:51
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lcuk_lap	right, ill reboot this and then shove mc on. you have praised it so many times i might as well see what its like	12:53
KotCzarny	:>	12:53
KotCzarny	if you ever used norton commander it should be familiar	12:53
KotCzarny	a little	12:53
lcuk_lap	back later :) thx for help kot and jaffa and others	12:53
lcuk_lap	you said its similar to dopus so i will be at homeish	12:54
qwerty12	mc is great, I'd use it on my n800 if the terminal wasn't so crap.	12:54
* lcuk_lap reboots		12:54
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KotCzarny	qwerty12: just use aterm or something	12:54
KotCzarny	:)	12:54
qwerty12	KotCzarny, I don't have a Bluetooth keyboard and xkbd etc are a bit hard for me to use.	12:55
qwerty12	rxvt compiles cleanly but I found it boring	12:55
KotCzarny	:)	12:55
KotCzarny	still, if you ssh into tablet, mc is a great help	12:56
qwerty12	:), when I get a bluetooth keyboard, I will for sure get round to trying more applications.	12:56
qwerty12	My router is crap :(	12:56
KotCzarny	change it?	12:56
KotCzarny	routers are dirt cheap now	12:57
KotCzarny	5-25$	12:57
KotCzarny	with wifi and switch	12:57
qwerty12	I'm a tramp, I ain't got no money :P. I paid around $210 for the one I got :(	12:57
KotCzarny	huh??	12:57
Tybor	210??? It's way too much!	12:57
qwerty12	I bought it a long time ago but yes, I agree	12:57
KotCzarny	way too much.	12:58
KotCzarny	:)	12:58
qwerty12	Yep, and it's a POS :P :D	12:58
Tybor	BTW, which modules shall I edit to make ext2 module get loaded at boot? The non-esistent in /etc or (if ever editable) the one in /mnt/initfs/etc?	12:58
KotCzarny	i don't mind pos if the price is right	12:58
KotCzarny	:)	12:58
qwerty12	KotCzarny, but this was a expensive POS :P.	12:58
KotCzarny	tybor: maybe add insmod commands to /etc/rc2.d/S99local ?	12:59
qwerty12	Or if you plan on setting up initfs, bootmenu has a module loading feature	12:59
KotCzarny	yup	12:59
Tybor	KotCzarny: oh... that's better indeed	12:59
qwerty12	I currently have mine set to load the framebuffer modules.	12:59
qwerty12	fuxzores, you know the /scratchbox directory? is it owned by the sbox group or your user which you use to log into linux with?	13:01
KotCzarny	probably root	13:02
KotCzarny	:)	13:02
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qwerty12	Ah thanks, I'll take guesses :/	13:02
KotCzarny	adding an sbox user creates proper subdirs	13:03
KotCzarny	for that user	13:03
qwerty12	brb	13:03
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qwerty12	KotCzarny, thanks :). I just needed to set right permissions to /tmp	13:06
qwerty12	"unable to get login information for username "faheem" at /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/lib/dpkg/controllib.pl line 65.	13:15
qwerty12	"	13:15
qwerty12	:(	13:15
qwerty12	I royally fucked up.	13:15
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* Cptnodegard hates the world		13:25
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* qwerty12 hates scratchbox		13:29
KotCzarny	why?	13:29
* MangoFusion hates building cross compilers		13:29
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qwerty12	I've gone and messed it up. I don't want to remove and reinstall as I have a lot of libraries in it etc	13:29
KotCzarny	:>	13:30
KotCzarny	just remove the target/user ?	13:30
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KotCzarny	it will remove that users libs/dirs though	13:30
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MangoFusion	didn't you	13:31
MangoFusion	whats the word	13:31
MangoFusion	begins with b	13:31
qwerty12	KotCzarny, Hmm, probably right but I'm really tired :(	13:31
MangoFusion	;)	13:31
KotCzarny	:)	13:31
KotCzarny	go get some sleep	13:31
muu	re	13:31
qwerty12	It's 11:31 AM here, it's not my habit to sleep during the day :)	13:31
qwerty12	But I go to sleep late at night <.<	13:32
KotCzarny	then name it a 'nap' and go to sleep	13:32
KotCzarny	;)	13:32
qwerty12	Hehe, I really should do but I mentally cannot go to sleep in the day, it takes me a verryyyyyy long time and I wake up feeling very very weird, :)	13:33
KotCzarny	eat something good and sleepiness will come naturally	13:34
KotCzarny	:)	13:34
qwerty12	Hehe, thanks :)	13:34
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qwerty12	Oh yeah, what is an oprofile kernel? (N800 wise)	13:41
KotCzarny	kind of debug enabled kernel	13:41
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qwerty12	Ah thanks, I've heard of it a few times, just didn't know what it was :)	13:42
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Jaffa	Doh. Clicked "publish" on a blog post rather than "save".	14:29
* GeneralAntilles goes to laugh at Jaffa's aborted blog post.		14:30
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* lcuk sells his laptop on ebay		14:35
keesj	did you recieve your eee ?	14:36
lcuk	no :( my missus gave me a speech about wasting money (she used expensive shoes as an example)	14:36
lcuk	and i managed to find a laptop with wifi that i could rebuild with ubuntu	14:36
keesj	:P	14:37
lcuk	but now after a royal battel i have an amazing theme on the laptop called "everything dark" its got black background with black text and amazingly black images	14:37
lcuk	sound works ok though	14:38
pupnik	can i has 60fps vsync?	14:38
* pupnik dcc's lcuk cheezburger		14:38
* pupnik prepares his hila-bots to invade lcuk's hous and steel his codez		14:39
pupnik	http://pupnik.de/hillary_and_hillarie.jpg	14:39
lcuk	lol i just noticed loads of PMs waiting for me	14:39
lcuk	are you trying to buy my code with comical imagary of hillary	14:39
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pupnik	i'm just being useless atm	14:40
lcuk	you're not the only one	14:40
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lcuk	so you ant to attempt to run emulator using the nice quick display code	14:40
lcuk	or you want to continue running it in sdl but ensuring it is flicker free	14:41
pupnik	i don't know how sdl triggers refresh	14:42
pupnik	or how to surpress that	14:42
pupnik	with the small window, i get enough performance i think with sdl blit @ 16bpp	14:42
lcuk	i agree, but whats needed is the removal of tearing	14:42
pupnik	yeah i'm kind of scared/lazy to get into that	14:42
lcuk	ill gladly let you have a look, but im not doing anything special with the refresh, just xv library raises an X event when its finished sending data after I call putimage	14:45
lcuk	does the tearing occur all the time, or does it depend upon the speed of your refreshing	14:45
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lcuk	not refreshing -> frame generating	14:46
Cptnodegard	is there a faster PDF reader for the it? the built in one is SLOW	14:46
pupnik	happens all the time. emulator exceeds 60fps on N810 and 770	14:46
pupnik	according to emulator	14:47
GeneralAntilles	Evince, Cptnodegard.	14:47
lcuk	but do you know how long it takes to actually send a screen?	14:47
pupnik	rather it tries to hit 60fps. if i remove the wait loop it exceeds	14:47
pupnik	nope	14:47
lcuk	infact, hangon, doesnt sdl have double buffering	14:47
lcuk	waitloop?	14:47
pupnik	not on maemo	14:47
pupnik	it computes, waits, draws, computes, waits, draws	14:48
Cptnodegard	GeneralAntilles: does it work well? the internal one maxes the cpu from trying to check bass tables alone -__-	14:48
lcuk	how long are you trying to wait for? just until you hit 60fps, or a specified period	14:48
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GeneralAntilles	It's a lot faster.	14:48
pupnik	until next 1/60th of a second	14:48
lcuk	need timings really to "simlulate" the expected delay required	14:49
pupnik	it has a little timer and wait loop. what is cur time, what is time-to-update, sleep usec	14:49
pupnik	well not loop -	14:49
lcuk	at the start of all this i was looking at sdl, and tbh even though im playing and doing nice stuff with the xv it would be beneficial to the community as a whole to see if sdl can be made to work	14:49
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pupnik	yessir	14:51
lcuk	you moved past your landscape thingy didnt you. from what i saw that didnt exhibit dreadful tearing though (or didnt appear to)	14:51
pupnik	i don't remember	14:52
lcuk	(i moved away from sdl because fullscreen 800*480) wasnt as fast on sdl because of a whole buffered page	14:52
lcuk	but at the lower resolutions i really dont see why it tears	14:52
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lcuk	lemme just fire up the couple of sdl projects ive got and see if i can see problem	14:53
gribouille	hi	14:53
lcuk	unless youve got something simple as a testcase	14:53
pupnik	i can give you the emu source	14:53
pupnik	but that's not so simple	14:54
gribouille	I jave a problem with ossofilemanager : it doesn't show all the files	14:54
lcuk	ok but i might end up not seeing the wood for the trees	14:54
pupnik	yeah	14:54
pupnik	well dude i will try to do work today. sorry to pestery you	14:54
lcuk	tell ya what, hold on that for a minute	14:54
pupnik	bbiam	14:55
lcuk	hey no prob - we both want best quality possible and linuxtag is nearly hear	14:55
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lcuk	im happy to have a look and at least see if anything can be done	14:55
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lcuk	gribouille, whats missing	14:56
gribouille	lcuk, for example, I have downloaded a video, but the video doesn't appear in the file manager	14:57
lcuk	are you looking in the correct location?	14:57
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gribouille	lcuk, I think so	14:58
lcuk	downloading video from where? the internet or over the wifi from your computer	14:58
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gribouille	lcuk, ues	14:58
lcuk	and where are you saving it to	14:58
gribouille	lcuk, yes	14:58
gribouille	the video is in /home/user	14:58
GeneralAntilles	/home/user is one directory above where File manager will display	14:59
GeneralAntilles	Use emelfm or xterm or something	14:59
GeneralAntilles	GMPlayer should see it.	14:59
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lcuk	there ya go, i was just gonna say that ;)	15:00
gribouille	GeneralAntilles, exactly. but why doesnt File manager show everything ?	15:00
GeneralAntilles	Because it's "user friendly"	15:00
lcuk	because file manager is a user application. users dont care about the innards	15:00
gribouille	GeneralAntilles, it is for Mac OS users	15:00
* GeneralAntilles is an OS X user.		15:01
* lcuk is an X os user		15:01
GeneralAntilles	PUN FAIL!	15:01
* lcuk solders wires to the motherboard to type		15:01
* gribouille is an ubuntu user		15:01
Cptnodegard	indeed this is WAY(!!!) faster GeneralAntilles	15:12
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gribouille	in File Manager, how can I associate an app with a file type ?	15:16
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GeneralAntilles	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15194 gribouille	15:18
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Cptnodegard	pfft	15:24
Cptnodegard	is there a good torrent site for magazines?	15:24
GeneralAntilles	Magazines suck.	15:24
Cptnodegard	no	15:25
Cptnodegard	i got nothing else to do	15:25
GeneralAntilles	ebooks!	15:25
Cptnodegard	meh	15:26
Cptnodegard	takes too long	15:26
gribouille	GeneralAntilles, what do I have to put in /usr/share/applications/ ?	15:26
GeneralAntilles	For what?	15:26
GeneralAntilles	mime type handling?	15:26
GeneralAntilles	Dunno, never looked into it.	15:26
gribouille	GeneralAntilles, for flv videos	15:27
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gribouille	can't the video player play mpeg videos ?	15:46
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fysa	anyone here using T-Zones for bluetooth DUN?	15:46
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Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: http://www.maemopeople.org/media/users/jaffa/corporate-open-source-triangle.png is going to be part of my blog post	15:51
Jaffa	Inkscape FTW!	15:51
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	15:51
GeneralAntilles	Put little pictures of Darth Vader on the bottom left.	15:52
Jaffa	heh :)	15:52
Jaffa	I think we can agree we're closer to the bottom left than anywhere else, ATM ;-)	15:53
GeneralAntilles	Sadly. :(	15:53
lcuk	pupnik	15:54
johnx	meh...it could be a lot worse	15:54
Jaffa	True, but for an essay on "maemo.org: what next?" saying "it could be worse" isn't going to push us forwards ;-)	15:55
johnx	oh, I completely agree :)	15:55
pupnik	what what	15:55
lcuk	step into my office ;)	15:56
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, I'm sure you know, but hitting on the reasons openness and more community involvement would benefit Nokia would probably the most effective method to get a response.	15:57
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: indeed	15:57
johnx	yes! so much yes! what he said	15:57
GeneralAntilles	Appeal to their rational self-interest. :D	15:57
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johnx	If we can actually get to the point where getting a hildonized app from Ubuntu Mobile to Maemo it will pretty much cement hildon as the UI of choice for mobile linux	15:59
Jaffa	Companies love their bottom line	15:59
johnx	s/Maemo it/Maemo is really easy it/g	16:00
infobot	johnx meant: If we can actually get to the point where getting a hildonized app from Ubuntu Mobile to Maemo is really easy it will pretty much cement hildon as the UI of choice for mobile linux	16:00
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GeneralAntilles	I wonder if putting it in the form of an open letter would be useful.	16:02
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johnx	Can someone suggest someplace to start to get a list of non-free packages in maemo? Should I just screenscrap the index of the repository or can someone think of a better way? Does apt have a "license" field somewhere?	17:19
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Jaffa	Compare the directory listings for the source repo vs. the binary repo?	17:21
johnx	yeah, that's what I thought	17:22
johnx	I just figured someone might pop in here with a really easy way to do it. :D	17:22
* johnx really wishes apt had a license field :/		17:25
* RST38h conquered gconf		17:25
RST38h	[hasn't been easy - a lot of API is kinda artificial]	17:26
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Jaffa	johnx/GeneralAntilles: comments welcome on http://bleb.org/software/maemo/next-draft.html	17:28
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MangoFusion	it really does surprises me how easily compiling an older version of gcc with a newer version results in insanity	17:33
Jaffa	lcuk too, if you're about.	17:33
RST38h	Jaffa: The "work with Intel/Ubuntu" comment is kind of redundant	17:36
Jaffa	true	17:36
RST38h	As far as I know, they made use of Hildon but ignored the rest	17:36
RST38h	So it is kind of a one-way street right now	17:36
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RST38h	Also, as cute as their Moblin stuff is, it currenty works on exactly ONE UMPC from ONE manufacturer (Samsung) and that device is a full-featured PC. It can run XP	17:37
* Jaffa tacks on the end of that point: "; to ensure that Moblin, UME and maemo don't splinter and that porting applications between them, and innovations made by one company can be reused without being dismissed because of "Not Invented Here" syndrome."		17:37
RST38h	Until Moblin works on low-specced devices like IT, it is irrelevant (and I am sure Intel intends to keep it that way - they are not selling ARM based devices)	17:38
AStorm	:>	17:38
AStorm	Why wouldn't it work there?	17:38
RST38h	Jaffa: Already splintered.	17:38
AStorm	Are apps too heavy?	17:38
RST38h	It is most likely too heavy for ITs	17:38
Jaffa	RST38h: indeed; but they're innovating in the UI space and are developing more in the open.	17:38
GeneralAntilles	I'd expound a bit on the value-added part of openness.	17:38
RST38h	Jaffa: they ain't innovating in UI space	17:38
* Jaffa isn't saying that UME should be used instead of maemo		17:39
Jaffa	RST38h: more so than Nokia	17:39
RST38h	Jaffa: Apple is innovating in the UI space. Microsoft is (see the Table). Moblin is not	17:39
AStorm	Yup, Moblin is very similar to Maemo...	17:39
AStorm	(as far as UI goes)	17:39
RST38h	Jaffa: Nokia actually is (a little bit), just makes sure to call it "Handful's hobby project" ;)	17:40
AStorm	I had a few ideas about nicer UI, but these required a 3D chip.	17:40
* Jaffa was trying to avoid iPhone comparisons as they generate more heat than light; and was trying to stay focused on maemo. Saying "throw out Hildon, copy the iPhone and Canola" is not realistic at this point (or, at least, I'd be very surprised)		17:40
Jaffa	RST38h: INDt are always at pains to point out they ain't Nokia.	17:40
RST38h	BTW, I still do not understand why everybody is so bent against Maemo UI. It's simple and does the job and can be incrementally improved	17:40
AStorm	Canola isn't that good IMO	17:40
RST38h	Jaffa: Yea, yea ;)	17:41
AStorm	too many clicks	17:41
VRe	I can not see, how atom based devices can ever get to the size of n8x0 with the same battery life.	17:41
RST38h	AStorm: well, they are experimenting	17:41
Jaffa	"ever" is a strong word in computing	17:41
AStorm	yup	17:41
AStorm	but the interface feels much too slow	17:41
* RST38h probably has to disclose that he is an Intel employee...		17:41
AStorm	It's well suited for tiny screens though	17:41
* Jaffa doesn't think Canola's innovating either. For maemo software, perhaps; but there's no real difference between Canola, MythTV, Freevo and the iPhone.		17:41
RST38h	(not directly dealing with Atom though)	17:41
AStorm	but not for screen that large Nxxx have	17:42
RST38h	Jaffa: Their input methods are pretty innovative	17:42
RST38h	Jaffa: some presentation stuff as well (like pictures browsing)	17:42
AStorm	what input methods?	17:42
* Jaffa dittos AStorm.		17:42
AStorm	you mean scrolling? baaaah	17:42
RST38h	As a whole, Canola is not a huge innovation, but it is a nice workbench	17:42
VRe	There could be different app-launchers, canola like, the one we have now etc. They could even make a desktop applet which is canola like..	17:42
* RST38h meant scrolling		17:43
RST38h	VRe: Canola is a PMP. Why do you need everything to look like canola?	17:43
Jaffa	VRe: they did. It's in moblin (both Clutter and Flash-based). Their home screen draggable app launcher is a Hildon Desktop plugin	17:43
AStorm	hehehe	17:43
VRe	Jaffa: Ok, so there is selecting then	17:43
RST38h	Use similar presentation and input techniques - yes, definitely. But be Canola?	17:43
AStorm	RST38h: well, scrolling is simple	17:43
Jaffa	RST38h: the scrolling's "just" a copy of the iPhone (and a somewhat ropey implementation at that)	17:43
RST38h	Jaffa: It is not: iPhone has completely different touch screen hw	17:44
RST38h	Can't copy it	17:44
AStorm	it's simple because you just need some threshold of dragging	17:44
RST38h	It is similar but not the same	17:44
AStorm	yup, Nxxx doesn't have multitouch - non-capacitive screen	17:44
VRe	RST38h: Well, not canola, I think its more iphone anyways.. or palm style (without scrolling)	17:44
AStorm	what I'd love in Nxxx is gestures	17:44
Jaffa	RST38h: The implementation might be "innovative" then, being able to do it on a passive touchscreen, but the UI isn't.	17:45
AStorm	there were some apps for Linux, but very undeveloped	17:45
AStorm	with a touchscreen, you could literally draw these	17:45
RST38h	Jaffa: UI is not	17:45
* RST38h wonders how long it will take for some enterprising character to write a Maemo desktop plugin that takes the whole desktop and looks exactly like iPhone...		17:46
VRe	The best would be that all is visible on the screen and there is no need to scroll around, looks cool but takes time	17:46
AStorm	RST38h: that would be copyright infringement	17:46
gribouille	the video player can't play my mpeg videos	17:46
RST38h	actually, leave 50-pixels at the right free for email/time/etc plugins	17:47
AStorm	and multitouch is impossible	17:47
RST38h	AStorm: Not really: Moblin is doing it and they are still aflotat	17:47
AStorm	gribouille: built-in player needs vids to be 800x480 or smaller	17:47
AStorm	mplayer can scale	17:47
AStorm	RST38h: not similar enough :>	17:47
RST38h	AStorm: exactly ;)	17:47
AStorm	gribouille: canola uses mplayer too	17:47
RST38h	That was what I meant ;)	17:47
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, somebody already did	17:47
GeneralAntilles	though it's not a plugin.	17:47
GeneralAntilles	just a Python application	17:47
AStorm	ah right	17:47
gribouille	wgy doesn't the video player use mplayer ?	17:47
RST38h	General: Yes, but that one was impractical ;(	17:47
AStorm	gribouille: because it uses gstreamer	17:48
AStorm	and they haven't written a scale plugin for some reason or another	17:48
Jaffa	There is an app launcher for maemo which copies the iPhone's home screen	17:48
AStorm	mplayer is fairly heavy too, and less integrated than gstreamer system	17:48
gribouille	AStorm, what is the advantage of gstreamer ?	17:49
AStorm	gribouille: http://www.gstreamer.org	17:49
AStorm	:-)	17:49
AStorm	it's nice and pluggable	17:49
AStorm	a comfy programming interface too	17:49
AStorm	and GNOME uses it	17:49
RST38h	Jaffa: URL?	17:50
AStorm	blah, I don't like iPhone UI that much	17:50
* RST38h would prefer /dev/dsp to GStreamer any time		17:50
AStorm	RST38h: lol, w/o picking Hz?	17:50
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RST38h	AStorm: Maemo GStreamer has problems playing samples at anything but 44.1kHz anyway	17:51
AStorm	for /dev/dsp to work fine you need to have some (propietary) comm mechanism	17:51
AStorm	RST38h: that's because of esd	17:51
AStorm	not gstreamer per se	17:51
* RST38h has comm mechanisms implemented eons ago		17:51
AStorm	you could probably switch it to direct ALSA	17:51
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AStorm	RST38h: is OSS mechanism standarised enough?	17:51
RST38h	It's ok - I already integrated gstreamer support	17:51
RST38h	AStorm: More or less	17:51
AStorm	does it provide latency info? :-)	17:51
AStorm	buffer size? channel number?	17:51
gribouille	AStorm, the video player can't play a video like this : VIDEO: MPEG1 320x240 (aspect 1) 25.000 fps 0.0 kbps ( 0.0 kbyte/s)	17:52
RST38h	Not really, but who gives a damn, just saturate the thing with data	17:52
AStorm	0.0 kbps? wtf?	17:52
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lcuk	jaffa im not about proprly yet but i will be later, just send me a reminder to liquid on gmail	17:52
gribouille	I don't know	17:52
RST38h	And you can set buffer size for /dev/dsp, no problem with that	17:52
AStorm	RST38h: well, ALSA got one thing right, and one thing wrong	17:52
gribouille	that's mplayer's output	17:52
AStorm	gribouille: something is wrong with the movie	17:53
AStorm	probably broken header	17:53
gribouille	AStorm, maybe, but mplayer plays it normally	17:53
AStorm	RST38h: right was plugins, wrong was complex API	17:53
gribouille	AStorm, I converted a flash video with ffmpeg	17:53
AStorm	gribouille: hmm, weird, should work	17:53
RST38h	AStorm: That is a common mistake :)	17:53
AStorm	btw, flv can be played by mplayer	17:54
RST38h	Weird how few people understand that you only need 2 API calls for audio	17:54
AStorm	RST38h: well, gstreamer fixed the latter	17:54
AStorm	and it does have 3 calls	17:54
AStorm	to sound :P	17:54
RST38h	WriteAudio() and GetFreeAudio()	17:54
AStorm	RST38h: which Audio? PCM?	17:54
AStorm	:P	17:54
RST38h	Yea, probably Open/Close as well :)	17:54
RST38h	Just about any streaming audio	17:54
AStorm	nah	17:54
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AStorm	that would need filetype detection	17:55
Jaffa	RST38h: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/itablet/	17:55
AStorm	gst sidesteps that by using MIME types all around	17:55
AStorm	and separate detection plugin	17:55
RST38h	AStorm: But I do not play audio files, I play data buffers	17:55
AStorm	RST38h: ah, then, it's simple, init the sink and send away	17:55
AStorm	:-)	17:55
RST38h	Jaffa: Not a plugin. An app. Written in Python. Too bad :(	17:55
AStorm	but the problem is you need decoding anyway	17:55
AStorm	btw, my charger broke, again!	17:56
Jaffa	RST38h: wouldn't be hard to do a Hildon Desktop version now	17:56
RST38h	AStorm: yea, but you can tell the nature of the data when initing	17:56
AStorm	RST38h: and have automatic decoding	17:56
RST38h	Jaffa: I guess so. Still waiting for a hero who makes it ;)	17:56
AStorm	yes, that's what high-level GSt looks like	17:56
RST38h	AStorm: format detection isn't something audio API has to do, IMHO	17:56
AStorm	ok, where do I get a resilient charger for Nxxx?	17:57
AStorm	with a plug that doesn't break after 2 weeks?	17:57
RST38h	Isn't the standard one good enough?	17:57
AStorm	broke!	17:57
AStorm	:P	17:57
AStorm	aluminum plugs = junk	17:57
RST38h	Europlug or US?	17:57
AStorm	no no	17:57
AStorm	the small 5V plug broke	17:57
RST38h	Ah	17:57
RST38h	The flimsy little 5V plug	17:58
AStorm	yup	17:58
AStorm	it'd need iridium or at least steel	17:58
RST38h	Is there a RadioShack around?	17:58
AStorm	to be resilient enough	17:58
AStorm	RST38h: nah, wrong country	17:58
RST38h	Ummm....Maybe make one from a catether needle?	17:59
AStorm	hmmmmmm	17:59
AStorm	that's steel all right	17:59
RST38h	That one won't break	17:59
gribouille	how can I map flv videos to mplayer ?	17:59
AStorm	but solder would	17:59
AStorm	gribouille: as in?	17:59
AStorm	gribouille: I'd use canola anyway :>	17:59
RST38h	Depends on how you solder it	17:59
AStorm	RST38h: in any way, it won't solder well	17:59
gribouille	AStorm, but it doesnt play flash videos	18:00
AStorm	gribouille: wrong! it does	18:00
gribouille	let's try	18:00
AStorm	but be sure to get the recent version, (like beta7 or newer)	18:00
AStorm	it even has a youtube plugin	18:00
qwerty12	it wont index flv files you have already saved.	18:00
RST38h	AStorm: you can make a few notches on it with a file, then wrap the wire around these, and use some evil compound when soldering	18:00
AStorm	RST38h: hmm, yup, increase surface	18:01
gribouille	AStorm, I tried the youtube plugin, but it failed miserably	18:01
AStorm	but it will still break the same	18:01
RST38h	And then, just to be sure, deep the whole thing into "liquid metal" epoxy	18:01
RST38h	Everything will break when pushed hard enough.	18:01
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AStorm	the problem is that in both cases it broke just after the pin	18:02
AStorm	at the point it connects to the rest of the plug	18:02
gribouille	AStorm, canola doesn't show flash videos in my video folder	18:02
AStorm	gribouille: what qwerty12 said	18:02
AStorm	put these into its youtube save folder	18:02
gribouille	AStorm, where is it ?	18:03
qwerty12	Sigh, I have to reinstall scratchbox :(	18:03
AStorm	you can pick that one	18:03
AStorm	in Settings	18:03
AStorm	they'll probably fix the scanner some more in the next version	18:04
qwerty12	its planned.	18:04
AStorm	I hope Vorbis will work	18:04
gribouille	AStorm, is it 'My download folder' ?	18:04
qwerty12	AStorm, There's a deb for vorbis in canola	18:04
AStorm	qwerty12: sorry, can't test that yet	18:05
AStorm	is it that ogg-support, or something more?	18:05
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AStorm	qwerty12: first, I need a non-breaking charger	18:05
gribouille	where does canola put the videos it downloads ?	18:05
qwerty12	AStorm, Ogg-support is needed for codecs but then there is another deb. I'll search it up.	18:05
AStorm	qwerty12: wait with that	18:05
AStorm	I'd have to bookmark it	18:05
qwerty12	Skeen.	18:06
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qwerty12	I got a question, what benefits does an oprofile kernel give?	18:09
AStorm	you can run oprofile with it	18:10
AStorm	and profile the kernel and apps	18:10
qwerty12	Ah nice :), my CPU is always on full usage for some reason and [h]top gives me rubbish results.	18:10
* johnx was distracted for a while, reads through backlog + Jaffa's "What's next"		18:10
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AStorm	btw, is it possible to reassemble keys (I mean physical) on N810?	18:17
AStorm	switch the layout	18:17
qwerty12	brb, got to log out to set up sbox	18:17
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eathprod	Was an intresting post on internettablettalk.com about firewall and security, i didnt understand all what was said, but as i understand it, there is iptables at the bottom of the system, would it be possible for somone to make a script to make it run useful?	18:19
qwerty12	Believe me, meanwhile was chatting out of his ass.	18:19
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GeneralAntilles	Yes, eathprod, it'd be worthwhile to ignore basically everything that meanwhile "contributed" to that thread. ;)	18:20
AStorm	eathprod: well, there is iptables	18:21
Navi	iptables isn't that hard to understand.	18:21
AStorm	you can use it	18:21
AStorm	and maybe firehol or some other frontend could be ported	18:21
Navi	Though, I've always missed ipfw from my BSD days	18:22
gribouille	does anyone know if there is a better shell than ash ?	18:22
AStorm	I'm not sure if an useful modules have been built	18:22
AStorm	gribouille: sure, bash	18:22
johnx	eathprod, what do you want to do with your firewall? try and keep people out? or try and restrict net access from apps running	18:22
AStorm	and the default isn't ash, but msh (from busybox)	18:22
sp3000	the b is for better! :P	18:22
gribouille	AStorm, ut doesn't seem to be a good idea to install it	18:22
GeneralAntilles	nitapps.com, gribouille	18:22
AStorm	yup, that one has bash3	18:23
eathprod	i know it will be "fireproof" but if somthing could make it better it would be wothwhile	18:23
AStorm	you can replace /bin/sh with it w/o harm too	18:23
GeneralAntilles	The default says "ash" over here, AStorm.	18:23
AStorm	:-)	18:23
eathprod	wont be*	18:23
AStorm	GeneralAntilles: possible, but it isn't that ash Debian uses	18:23
AStorm	it still is busybox ash, which sucks :P	18:23
qwerty12	I didn't like bash tbh on my tablet. bash on my computer is great but I found ash to be more suited for the tablet.	18:23
AStorm	in what?	18:24
AStorm	it doesn't have anything	18:24
gribouille	if I want to install bash, apt-get will remove 129 packages !	18:24
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Navi	I find bash sucks either way.	18:24
AStorm	gribouille: no, nitapps.com	18:24
AStorm	not the one in repos	18:24
RST38h	Cooool	18:24
AStorm	that one is for scratchbox or hax0rs ;P	18:24
RST38h	[whispers] tcsh	18:24
AStorm	RST38h: noooooo!	18:24
RST38h	yes.	18:24
johnx	eathprod, basically, by default, ITOS isn't listening on any ports, and only programs that you install have net access. If you do install a malicious program by accident, chances are it will also be smart enough to subvert your firewall...sooo, unless you have a specific use in mind for iptables, I wouldn't worry about it	18:25
qwerty12	tsch any good?	18:25
AStorm	RST38h: no, I want a Python shell.	18:25
AStorm	like ipython, but slightly different	18:25
Navi	qwerty12, it's like csh	18:25
johnx	qwerty12, I prefer the bourne-based shells to the c-based shells	18:25
RST38h	AStorm: Weird. Is it difficult to compile?	18:25
AStorm	RST38h: what? ipython? no	18:25
qwerty12	Ah thanks.	18:26
elb	http://www.faqs.org/faqs/unix-faq/shell/csh-whynot/	18:26
* Navi prefers zsh		18:26
AStorm	it just doesn't run normal commands by default	18:26
RST38h	qwerty: csh/tcsh are standard on BSD systems	18:26
AStorm	RST38h: which is unfortunate and sucky	18:26
Navi	and dash for lower systems	18:26
RST38h	qwerty: so every time I have to deal with bash, it feels wrong	18:26
AStorm	Navi: zsh actually isn't that much better	18:26
RST38h	qwerty: that is the only reason really	18:26
eathprod	johnx, thanks for the answer, i guess basic healty thinking and dowload from trusted sources is good enuf	18:26
Navi	AStorm, than what, bash?	18:26
AStorm	RST38h: because you're wrong, not the shell :P	18:26
AStorm	Navi: why not, but then, bash isn't the best	18:27
AStorm	I'd love fish, but debroken and improved	18:27
qwerty12	I've only ever used bash and ash :/. But surely they are easy to port to the tablet? I'd try but scratchbox is officialy over for me.	18:27
Navi	AStorm, then what were you comparing it to?	18:27
AStorm	and also, POSIX sh is anywhere	18:27
AStorm	Navi: to nothing special	18:27
Navi	:/	18:27
johnx	eathprod, there are a lot of smart people here and on the forums. Chances are anyone writing malicious code will get caught out pretty quick	18:27
AStorm	zsh is better than bash, but only minimally	18:27
Navi	I take zsh's scripting and tab completion over bash any day	18:28
lopz	hi	18:28
AStorm	Navi: well, tab completion is configurable in bash	18:28
Navi	Not just a minor improvement, imo	18:28
AStorm	the defaults are diff	18:28
AStorm	zsh scripting isn't better, just different	18:28
johnx	eathprod, that being said, there are nice tracking programs you can run to easily see what programs are connecting to where: netstat is one of them (try netstat -ltau in the x terminal)	18:28
gribouille	if I install bash3, will it break my yablet ?	18:29
Navi	AStorm, if I prefer it, it's better to me.	18:29
AStorm	gribouille: no	18:29
gribouille	AStorm, can I install it safely ?	18:29
AStorm	Navi: exactly, qualified speech is the win ;)	18:29
AStorm	gribouille: YES.	18:29
eathprod	johnx, i will look into it when i get it conected, thanks	18:29
NOCmadman	is there a way i can tell what is causing my n800 to take so long to poweron ? it hangs at the nokia screen for a very long time. It did not do this before i updated. I am running os2008	18:30
GeneralAntilles	Do you have swap enabled?	18:30
qwerty12	NOCmadman, fanoush written some good stuff about checking.	18:30
NOCmadman	i did but i turned it off when I updated	18:30
GeneralAntilles	Swap + corrupt internal card has been known to cause those symptoms.	18:31
NOCmadman	i am constantly using internal card and swap is turned off so guess im back to square 1	18:32
AStorm	NOCmadman: check partition layout of that card	18:34
AStorm	there's some info on forums	18:34
gribouille	I clicked on the link 'Install catalogue' on http://nitapps.com/, but it didn't work	18:36
johnx	click save page, then open it in file manager	18:36
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johnx	...or "install from file" directly in application manager after saving the page	18:38
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gribouille	I wonder what there is in this catalogue	18:43
johnx	nitapps? just what you see on the front page I think	18:43
johnx	battery status, light meter and temp sensor seem like the coolest ones to me	18:44
gribouille	johnx, but the packages don't appear in the software manager	18:44
johnx	you might have to install them with apt-get	18:44
GeneralAntilles	No	18:45
GeneralAntilles	Did you refresh.	18:45
johnx	or you might not :D	18:45
GeneralAntilles	They're all in User/	18:45
gribouille	it normally does when you install a new catalogue	18:45
qwerty12	I can verify that battery-status is in the application manager catalogue. I use all.	18:46
AStorm	johnx: I'd love real applets for these	18:47
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gribouille	foe example, color-ls appears neither in the available applications list, nor in the installed applications list	18:47
johnx	AStorm, you mean home screen applets?	18:47
AStorm	johnx: yup	18:47
qwerty12	Well of course it isn't going to be in installed application list.	18:47
johnx	that would be kind of neat...	18:47
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qwerty12	But color-ls is in available apps.	18:47
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johnx	I wonder how hard homeip and homecpuspeed are to hack	18:48
AStorm	well, is it just some GTK?	18:48
RST38h	they are all written in python afaik	18:48
qwerty12	Not really, they are just python	18:48
AStorm	PyGTK then?	18:48
AStorm	with a transparent PNG?	18:48
AStorm	like screenlets?	18:48
AStorm	or PyCairo?	18:48
qwerty12	I made a quick crap uptime applet which fails after 1 hour using that code.	18:48
AStorm	qwerty12: lol	18:48
johnx	uptime applet TODO: improve uptime	18:49
RST38h	quickly rename it "the countdown applet"!	18:49
AStorm	:P	18:49
qwerty12	I'd be interested if someone did make a proper uptime applet actually ;p	18:49
AStorm	I suspect you count seconds	18:49
johnx	ok, I'm in a good mood so I'll take a really quick poke at homeip and see if I can make it do my bidding	18:49
AStorm	just display /proc/uptime, d'oh	18:50
qwerty12	that output is weird :p	18:50
qwerty12	"uptime" I like though	18:50
AStorm	qwerty12: no no, it's not weird	18:50
GeneralAntilles	Home applets for what?	18:50
GeneralAntilles	light-meter and internal temperature?	18:50
johnx	yeah, and battery status I guess	18:51
qwerty12	Making one for internal-temperature would be very very easy	18:51
GeneralAntilles	It's already been done	18:51
GeneralAntilles	I recommended that Khertan make them yesterday. :P	18:51
GeneralAntilles	They're there.	18:51
johnx	O_o	18:51
GeneralAntilles	battery-status uses dbus which activates the statusbar applet	18:51
GeneralAntilles	so that wouldn't work very well as a desktop applet.	18:51
gribouille	is bash-completion available ?	18:52
johnx	meh, that's just cosmetic	18:52
GeneralAntilles	It's kind of irritating when a home applet is randomly activating it all the time, though.	18:52
johnx	just cause it gets that background?	18:52
qwerty12	Maybe kcbatt? But I don't get that program, output was -230% at one time.	18:52
AStorm	gribouille: I think yes	18:52
AStorm	it should work well anyway if installed by hand	18:53
gribouille	AStorm, I tried apt-get install bash-completion, but with no result	18:53
AStorm	GeneralAntilles: well, battery state is readable from /sys directly, right?	18:53
AStorm	gribouille: ... no, there's no package	18:53
qwerty12	kcbatt grabs it from dsme/retu	18:53
johnx	AStorm, I'm pretty sure it's not...but I'd like to be wrong	18:54
qwerty12	Battery status?	18:54
gribouille	AStorm, the problem is that the commands available in the tablet OS have fewer options than the same commands in PC distributions	18:54
AStorm	...	18:54
AStorm	gribouille: that's busybox for you	18:54
AStorm	you'd need coreutils	18:55
AStorm	and getting that requires a moderate hack :P	18:55
qwerty12	Hehe, I hate that hack I made	18:55
AStorm	but works here, mostly	18:55
qwerty12	I hate coreutils on tablet too	18:55
AStorm	yup	18:55
AStorm	why do you hate them?	18:55
gribouille	AStorm, what hack ?	18:55
qwerty12	I kept getting segfaults with ls -la, mv etc	18:55
AStorm	Grackle: don't try it	18:55
AStorm	qwerty12: well, that's the price	18:56
AStorm	replace ls and mv with busybox symlinks then	18:56
AStorm	Grackle: sorry	18:56
AStorm	gribouille: don't try it w/o a backup	18:56
qwerty12	AStorm, I did but I didn't want to find any suprises	18:56
gribouille	AStorm, I won't try it at all	18:56
qwerty12	Dont.	18:56
gribouille	If I use an Internet tablet, I don't want to use the command line often	18:57
AStorm	heh	18:57
AStorm	Well, so do I. But...	18:57
gribouille	just when it is absolutely necessary	18:57
AStorm	But I have to, devel and such :P	18:57
qwerty12	I actually prefer the command line	18:57
gribouille	qwerty12, so do I	18:57
AStorm	and I want lighttpd too :>	18:57
qwerty12	Application Manager takes ages for something that takes me a few seconds with dpkg and apt-get	18:58
gribouille	AStorm, do you devel for thr tablet ?	18:58
GeneralAntilles	AStorm, make it so, then. http://zedstar.org/blog/2008/03/02/packaging-lighttpd-for-maemo-the-quick-way/	18:58
AStorm	gribouille: not for IT, no	18:58
qwerty12	Application Manager is really bad, it insists on indexing all the packages upon startup.	18:58
AStorm	GeneralAntilles: first, have to finally build the environment	18:58
AStorm	qwerty12: hehe, for some reason	18:58
AStorm	it should actually only need a cache update	18:58
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qwerty12	Yep :(. Hopefully, it will be fixed in Diablo.	18:59
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AStorm	GeneralAntilles: the problem is lack of time	18:59
qwerty12	AStorm, looking at GeneralAntilles link, http://zedstar.org/chinook/	18:59
AStorm	qwerty12: well, svn version I have also fails :P	18:59
qwerty12	I hate svn versions	18:59
qwerty12	I reverted back to the old one	18:59
gribouille	what is the best application for music/video ?	18:59
AStorm	gribouille: depends, but I'd say canola2	18:59
GeneralAntilles	For music, anyway.	18:59
AStorm	ukmp is fairly good too	18:59
GeneralAntilles	It's got way too much overhead for videa.	18:59
GeneralAntilles	video*	19:00
qwerty12	I made a load of screenies for anyone interested what was changed in the svn I built :p	19:00
AStorm	not that much in fullscreen	19:00
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AStorm	but it unfortunately scales vids	19:00
AStorm	(mplayer doesn't)	19:00
johnx	gribouille, you need to try canola2 anyways so that you at least know what everyone is talking about	19:00
johnx	:)	19:00
AStorm	otoh mplayer needs a config option to disable that sound delay	19:00
gribouille	I ask before spending time learning and configuring canola	19:00
AStorm	because some idiot hardcoded it	19:00
AStorm	280ms sound delay, stupid stupid	19:00
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GeneralAntilles	It's gone, AStorm.	19:01
qwerty12	AStorm, the 26 versions dont have it	19:01
* Navi prefers mpd for music		19:01
gribouille	johnx, I tried it for youtube videos and it failed completly	19:01
GeneralAntilles	Has been for a version or two.	19:01
AStorm	GeneralAntilles: in .26	19:01
AStorm	good	19:01
AStorm	but .26 has broken flv playback, that is, slow	19:01
qwerty12	Even better, use Bundyo's rc2 built. MUCH MUCH BETTER	19:01
qwerty12	flv is fixed in rc2 as well	19:01
Navi	qwerty12, how so?	19:01
AStorm	whee	19:01
GeneralAntilles	Canola's YouTube plugin is hot.	19:01
qwerty12	wmv and flv are much improved in rc2	19:01
gribouille	GeneralAntilles, does it work ?	19:01
johnx	gribouille, well it's only about 30 seconds to point it at some of audio and see if you like it	19:01
Navi	To what degree of much better is the rc2?	19:01
AStorm	qwerty12: tell me a link, later, when I get my power source done :P	19:01
AStorm	(that is, bought)	19:01
qwerty12	Well, for flv, seeking and sound syncing are perfect.	19:02
AStorm	seeking in flv? YEAH!	19:02
qwerty12	Yep, it works properly as well :)	19:02
AStorm	btw, is ukmp good enough?	19:02
Navi	It's always worked for me	19:02
AStorm	or some other nice mplayer frontend?	19:02
GeneralAntilles	It's old	19:02
GeneralAntilles	and unsupported.	19:02
AStorm	boo hoo	19:02
AStorm	we need a good mplayer frontend	19:02
AStorm	hell, I might hack something in Python	19:03
qwerty12	I found the interfact awkward TBH. But like Navi, I just use mpd now.	19:03
qwerty12	With powerlaunch, mpd is brilliant.	19:03
GeneralAntilles	Could be Canola if it weren't so terrible for video playback. :<	19:03
gribouille	johnx, the only thing it displays it "Unable to resilve video url ..."	19:03
AStorm	qwerty12: btw, does r'n'd mode increase power use?	19:03
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Navi	bug konttori about ukmp the next time you see 'em	19:03
AStorm	GeneralAntilles: it isn't in full screen mode, as I said	19:03
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AStorm	but resizes vids	19:03
GeneralAntilles	AStorm, theoretically a little	19:03
AStorm	GeneralAntilles: why?	19:03
GeneralAntilles	In practice, I've never noticed any difference.	19:03
qwerty12	AStorm, no afaic unless you enable serial console.	19:04
AStorm	for me, the only diff is the logo, and maybe power use	19:04
AStorm	qwerty12: mhm	19:04
GeneralAntilles	It's easier to turn on.	19:04
GeneralAntilles	So you could accidentally turn it on while it's off and use more power. ;)	19:04
Navi	<qwerty12> With powerlaunch, mpd is brilliant. <-- Genius	19:04
AStorm	:P	19:04
AStorm	mpd is junk	19:04
AStorm	we need xmms2	19:04
AStorm	:-)	19:04
Navi	YOUR FACE IS JUNK	19:04
qwerty12	Navi, for sure	19:04
qwerty12	Lol	19:05
AStorm	so, who will port xmms2?	19:05
qwerty12	and mmpc makes it even more better, I just have the home button in powerlaunch set to launch mmpc	19:05
AStorm	hehehe	19:05
AStorm	I like the home button as it is	19:05
Navi	xmms2 is missing good clients :/	19:05
johnx	didn't someone compile it already?	19:05
qwerty12	That was xmms 1 afaikl	19:05
AStorm	Navi: nobody makes it hard to write one	19:05
AStorm	johnx: yup, that was xmms1	19:06
AStorm	Navi: it's just that people haven't yet	19:06
johnx	nah, I'm thinking xmms2, gimme a sec to find it	19:06
Navi	AStorm, except the API breakage that used to come in periodic updates in xmms2	19:06
AStorm	Navi: used, but doesn't anymore	19:06
AStorm	the api got stabler	19:06
qwerty12	My scratchbox feels so empty now :(. So many half, unfinished projects I was working on now gone :(	19:09
qwerty12	I wanted to finish off that port of PCMan I had.	19:09
Navi	:P	19:09
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qwerty12	Hehe, here's to a new start :p	19:09
qwerty12	This was the bit where you were meant to cry for me. :p	19:10
Navi	I need to clean out my scratchbox	19:10
GeneralAntilles	Scratchbox	19:11
GeneralAntilles	Sounds like the sound a cat makes in the litterbox. :P	19:11
qwerty12	$CR@TC\|-\|\|30X	19:11
AStorm	it's just a build env	19:11
Navi	Sounds like a brand of mixing tables.	19:11
AStorm	:P	19:11
johnx	I think solmumaha was the one who compiled xmms2	19:11
johnx	solmumaha, you around?	19:12
AStorm	blah anyway	19:12
* GeneralAntilles throws a wikipedia plugin section at qwerty12.		19:12
AStorm	I have no Nxxx available right now	19:12
Navi	There we go: http://www.rodec.be/site/content/mixers_scratchbox.asp	19:12
AStorm	and xmms2 doesn't do video	19:12
AStorm	:\|	19:12
qwerty12	GeneralAntilles, I have no idea what to write :P. I can write what plugins the community have made?	19:12
GeneralAntilles	Start with a list of plugins and what they do.	19:12
AStorm	qwerty12: gimme a home screen plugin for temperature	19:13
GeneralAntilles	Work from there if you get inspired.	19:13
AStorm	light sensor	19:13
qwerty12	GeneralAntilles, Ok, I can do that.	19:13
GeneralAntilles	if not, I can write something up.	19:13
GeneralAntilles	1 or 2 screenshots wouldn't hurt.	19:13
qwerty12	AStorm, it's very easy to modify one of the existing ones.	19:13
GeneralAntilles	Maybe	19:13
AStorm	and possibly battery status, esp. current drain	19:13
AStorm	qwerty12: which ones? linky?	19:13
GeneralAntilles	AStorm, there's already a homescreen applet for temp.	19:13
AStorm	GeneralAntilles: :)	19:14
GeneralAntilles	Khertan made one for the light sensor and one for temp yesterday.	19:14
AStorm	that's why I don't know about it	19:14
AStorm	:P	19:14
GeneralAntilles	I mentioned the fact in scrollback. :P	19:14
AStorm	drop me a link and I'll bookmark it	19:14
GeneralAntilles	It's in extras-devel	19:14
AStorm	ahha	19:14
GeneralAntilles	with the rest of the "Home" stuff.	19:14
AStorm	then hopefully tomorrow I'll test it	19:14
johnx	ah! woo! I didn't catch that part! that's nice...	19:14
AStorm	btw, I'd like a larger clock applet too	19:15
AStorm	maybe, a clock screen saver?	19:15
GeneralAntilles	There's an application	19:15
AStorm	(w/o backlight)	19:15
johnx	mclock I think...	19:15
GeneralAntilles	^	19:15
qwerty12	ooh, homewifilevel and home internal temp looks nice	19:15
johnx	:D we need homefortune!	19:16
GeneralAntilles	Suggest it, johnx.	19:16
GeneralAntilles	I'm sure he'll put it together.	19:16
AStorm	GeneralAntilles: OS2007?	19:16
johnx	actually, I should try and do it myself	19:16
GeneralAntilles	OS2008.	19:16
* johnx needs an excuse to dig into python		19:16
MangoFusion	print "Hello World"	19:16
Navi	secks	19:17
AStorm	mclock needs backlight, duh	19:17
GeneralAntilles	Anything'll need backlight to be able to see it.	19:17
AStorm	nope	19:17
qwerty12	secks with a python?	19:17
AStorm	I want some method to keep LCD on	19:17
AStorm	but backlight = 0	19:17
AStorm	like advanced backlight control does	19:17
GeneralAntilles	Plug it in, turn off the backlight.	19:17
AStorm	it's readable with high contrast and external light :P	19:17
qwerty12	AStorm, tried moredimming options? Set the backlight timeout to low and lcd timeout to 24 hours.	19:18
AStorm	GeneralAntilles: plug it in = no, no	19:18
AStorm	qwerty12: moredimming.... hmmm :-)	19:18
qwerty12	If you have gconf-editor, you can do it yourself :)	19:18
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AStorm	googling returned zilch	19:18
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GeneralAntilles	http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/moredimmingoptions/	19:18
qwerty12	me bad	19:19
qwerty12	http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/moredimmingoptions/	19:19
qwerty12	it's 2 double 0 8 :p	19:19
qwerty12	Although they undeniably link to the same deb >.<	19:19
AStorm	:-)	19:19
AStorm	well	19:19
AStorm	does it make dimming go to 0 light?	19:19
AStorm	ah, I'd need to disable screen shutdown on keyboard lock too	19:20
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gribouille	can someone tell me what color-ls does exactly ?	19:28
AStorm	installs a file that allows coloring of ls output	19:28
AStorm	:>	19:28
AStorm	DIR_COLORS or something	19:29
qwerty12	Exactly what it says on the tin.	19:29
gribouille	the package contains only /bin/ls.color	19:29
johnx	sends you colored screen overlays in the mail...	19:29
qwerty12	it gives me a good time	19:29
GeneralAntilles	I want a company that provides ssh by mail.	19:30
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AStorm	GeneralAntilles: rotfl	19:33
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lcuk	MITM attacks are bad. damn that mailman	19:34
gribouille	how can I add a new mime type ?	19:34
johnx	"package contains one (1) ssh server and one (1) ssh client, do not bend spindle, fold or mutilate."	19:35
lcuk	package actually sends the first IP packet over mail devliery network. GeneralAntilles must Ack by postcard.	19:36
qwerty12	GeneralAntilles, I've made a very ugly plugins section. Could do with a lot of clean up. I was and did add links but wikipedia went into read only mode. Fucking idiots.	19:36
GeneralAntilles	Just send it again	19:36
qwerty12	I would upload a picture but I dont have permissions.	19:36
GeneralAntilles	It only lasts a few seconds.	19:36
GeneralAntilles	You registered?	19:36
qwerty12	Yes but I have to wait 4 days before I am a "confirmed user"	19:37
GeneralAntilles	Ha	19:37
lcuk	with a name like qwerty12 you could be confused for a spambot ;)	19:37
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lcuk	GeneralAntilles got through all the beurocratic bullshit because he is in the military ;)	19:37
qwerty12	When I started using it (few years back) out of randomness, it wasn't common but now there is a virus called qwerty12.exe :(	19:38
qwerty12	:p	19:38
lcuk	:( your work of art is out there :P	19:38
qwerty12	If only I could program... :p	19:38
johnx	yeah, I saw it on this forum I visit, ITT or something... :P	19:38
lcuk	"The worlds first nokia maemo platform virus	19:38
lcuk	would actually be very easy	19:39
AStorm	lcuk: I suggest using RFC1149	19:40
qwerty12	Oh yeah, can anyone confirm if Rapier uses Sword (the Sword project or something like that)?	19:40
AStorm	IPoAC	19:41
AStorm	:-)	19:41
lcuk	:) astorm	19:41
gribouille	does anyone know how many pixels the N800 camera has ?	19:41
qwerty12	Not much.	19:42
AStorm	gribouille: I guess 1,2 mpix	19:42
lcuk	3	19:42
qwerty12	9	19:42
AStorm	ah, that :>	19:42
lcuk	but 6 are snow	19:42
GeneralAntilles	640*480	19:42
AStorm	mhm, 0,8 mpix? junk ;P	19:42
lcuk	its frustrating, i wanna play with the came but i cant be arsed setting up the base snap code	19:42
AStorm	0,3 mpix	19:42
AStorm	even more junk	19:43
AStorm	:P	19:43
lcuk	cam	19:43
AStorm	anyway, it's a webcam, not a camera	19:43
lcuk	yer if i can just call a function to take a picture i would start to use it	19:43
lcuk	just one frame then	19:43
* lcuk is in a pondering mood		19:43
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MangoFusion	virus on the NIT?	19:44
gribouille	is it possible to record videos with the cam ?	19:44
MangoFusion	anyone fancy downloading my port of the gimp?	19:44
Navi	OMGVIRUS	19:44
* MangoFusion looks decidedly evil		19:44
Navi	MangoFusion, does it run like suck?	19:44
GeneralAntilles	It's a virus	19:44
lcuk	RUN FOR THE HILLS!	19:44
GeneralAntilles	It runs great, Navi.	19:44
Navi	Liar	19:44
MangoFusion	nah just installs a bit of spyware, formats your sd cards, and makes large farting noises	19:44
qwerty12	im in	19:45
lcuk	hah - that has to be a sample for the music thing - the harder you hit your NIT the louder it farts	19:45
lcuk	(sorry, am pondering music as well.. but thats for another day)	19:45
gribouille	does video work with wkype ?	19:46
AStorm	the screen can read pressure data?	19:46
gribouille	skype	19:46
AStorm	gribouille: no	19:46
AStorm	because it's skype 1.4	19:46
lcuk	storm, yes	19:46
gribouille	but why ?	19:46
AStorm	coupled with cruddy codec	19:46
AStorm	G.174 or so	19:46
AStorm	lcuk: is there a new beta?	19:46
gribouille	will it work one day ?	19:47
AStorm	gribouille: when skype writes an app	19:47
lcuk	no ill find you the howto	19:47
AStorm	lcuk: gimme	19:47
AStorm	I want one to stop skype disconnecting on any tablet usage :>	19:47
gribouille	AStorm, but normally, video works with skype	19:47
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AStorm	gribouille: but not on IT	19:48
AStorm	...	19:48
AStorm	at least, not with the version I have	19:48
AStorm	Linux Skype 2.x works fine with video and sound	19:48
AStorm	but still uses weird amounts of CPU	19:48
gribouille	what's missing to make it work ?	19:48
AStorm	for what it does, it eats a lot	19:48
johnx	gribouille, for some reason the skype guys haven't bothered to get video working on the n8x0. That's their choice.	19:48
AStorm	gribouille: Skype source code ;P	19:48
AStorm	actually, a rebuild of Skype 2.x for Maemo	19:49
AStorm	but then, 2.x isn't released for Linux yet	19:49
johnx	what's missing: a paid, motivated programmer with access to skype source code	19:49
AStorm	and we'd need them to implement their audio codecs properly	19:49
AStorm	they suck at it	19:49
AStorm	totally unoptimized, choke sometimes on C2D	19:50
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AStorm	in other words: they can't code	19:50
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AStorm	and they can't use usual frameworks too	19:50
lcuk	AStorm, http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_usetouchscreenpressuredata/	19:50
johnx	I think they've gotten complacent...	19:50
AStorm	lcuk: :-)	19:51
Veggen	I prefer standards-based VOIP to proprietary solutions, myself.	19:51
lcuk	its also available i believe from within python, but that might have been lost in the sands of ummm time (about 3 months)	19:51
AStorm	lcuk: do you have a workaround for Hildon to use AccessX?	19:51
AStorm	and switching it on by default in hold mode?	19:51
AStorm	:-)	19:51
lcuk	what is this accessx you speak of? (I hope its not an access database)	19:51
AStorm	it's X extension	19:52
lcuk	for what	19:52
AStorm	available in Xomap too	19:52
AStorm	for keyboard accessibility	19:52
AStorm	sticky keys	19:52
AStorm	etc.	19:52
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lcuk	dunno at all, i havent even seen how the keyboard works or anything	19:52
qwerty12	accessx, have you got a build? sounds useful for a tablet.	19:52
AStorm	qwerty12: it's in Xomap	19:52
* lcuk assumes some magic happens and i get keyboard events		19:52
AStorm	switch it on by adding +accessx option	19:52
lcuk	back later	19:52
qwerty12	Ah, thanks :)	19:53
AStorm	lcuk: actually, it's a real hw keyboard	19:53
AStorm	qwerty12: 5x shift key enables sticky keys	19:53
AStorm	that includes ALL modifiers	19:53
AStorm	and that double key press hold enabler	19:53
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AStorm	like Hildon does	19:54
AStorm	but less sucky, as it's X server feature	19:54
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qwerty12	Ah ok, but I'll have to use XVKBD then as I'm on N800.	19:54
AStorm	well :P	19:54
AStorm	not with a bluetooth keyboard	19:54
AStorm	I want sticky keys enabled by default	19:54
AStorm	just that - it doesn't collide with Hildon at all	19:55
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Veggen	hmm. If I had sticky ctrl, I could give up my left one...	19:55
AStorm	also, I would have to disable toggle sequences too	19:56
AStorm	I don't know why Nokia didn't use that	19:57
AStorm	probably they didn't research enough	19:57
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AStorm	We need to get Nokia to improve that part.	20:03
GeneralAntilles	Ha anybody bothered to file a bug?	20:04
qwerty12	Does anyone have a 3G USB Modem (for "mobile broadband" as is touted in this country): if so, could someone try it with an N8*0: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=172282	20:05
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AStorm	GeneralAntilles: could you file a bug for me? :-)	20:11
GeneralAntilles	No	20:11
GeneralAntilles	I'll confirm it and vote for it, though. :P	20:12
AStorm	hmmhmm	20:12
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AStorm	while they're at it, they could increase autorepeat delay	20:16
GeneralAntilles	Better yet, give us a GUI slider.	20:17
Navi	ew	20:19
johnx	Navi, what? your slider all GUI?	20:19
Navi	My slider is telepathically controlled	20:20
johnx	a little box where you can select the delay in ms would be nice really...	20:20
Navi	delay for what?	20:20
johnx	autorepeat	20:20
Navi	I haven't been reading	20:20
GeneralAntilles	key repeat	20:20
Navi	ah	20:20
* GeneralAntilles pokes Navi with a stick.		20:21
Navi	There's probably a gconf setting for it or something	20:21
AStorm	Navi: nope	20:21
Navi	Aw :(	20:21
AStorm	but there is xset	20:21
Navi	yay \o/	20:21
Navi	we should turn johnx into a slider	20:21
AStorm	He's one already :P	20:22
johnx	woo! if anyone suggests this to Nokia as a wishlist please tell them about xset so they don't manage to create a closed source replacement O_o	20:22
Navi	Heh	20:22
GeneralAntilles	Somebody file some bugs.	20:22
GeneralAntilles	Bitching in #maemo is not an effective way to get Nokia to do things.	20:22
AStorm	yeah, they have something of a NIH attitude	20:22
Navi	Anyways, anyone know how kde is launched on the N800?	20:22
* johnx sets slider mode: snarky \|---+--------\| ornery		20:23
AStorm	Navi: as usual	20:23
Navi	not the click the menu thing specifics, but the technical stop hildon-desktop specifics	20:23
AStorm	it's Debian	20:23
AStorm	Not Maemo at all.	20:23
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Navi	I've never run Debian or it's derivatives for a long span of time	20:24
AStorm	Maemo is Debian-based	20:24
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AStorm	so, you lie	20:24
Navi	not including maemo, fine.	20:24
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johnx	do they just do /etc/init.d/whatever stop ?	20:24
Navi	Anyways, I've looked up what penguinbait did in OS2007	20:24
johnx	does that actually work and not result in reboots?	20:24
Navi	and I can stop hildon-desktop	20:25
Navi	but trying it with matchbox doesn't work	20:25
Navi	it just respawns itself	20:25
Navi	and replacing it right when matchbox is down causes a reboot	20:25
AStorm	Navi: just a simple mod of init script away	20:25
GeneralAntilles	Navi fails hard.	20:25
Navi	GeneralAntilles, agreed	20:25
Navi	AStorm, how do you do it?	20:26
AStorm	and it's /etc/rc.d	20:26
AStorm	Navi: find the initscript and mod the line with dsmetool	20:26
johnx	AStorm, what is /etc/rc.d ?	20:26
AStorm	dsmetool is the autorebooter and restarter watchdog	20:26
AStorm	johnx: rc.d :P	20:26
AStorm	init script dir	20:26
Navi	init scripts are thrown in there	20:26
AStorm	too much BSD lately :P	20:26
johnx	ls: /etc/rc.d: No such file or directory :P	20:27
AStorm	johnx: as I said, too much BSD lately :P	20:27
johnx	aaah	20:27
Navi	there are multiple rc directories	20:27
johnx	Navi, /etc/init.d has the real stuff	20:27
AStorm	yup, rc.0 - rc.6 and rc.S	20:27
johnx	the rcN.d is just symlinks	20:27
AStorm	yup	20:27
AStorm	but important ones	20:27
Navi	Well, the maemo init scripts and crap are in osso-af-init	20:28
AStorm	more or less	20:28
johnx	right, but they're called from scripts in init.d	20:28
AStorm	still, nokia needs a bash on head for dsmetool	20:28
AStorm	stupid software daemon	20:28
johnx	and bme	20:28
AStorm	they should've used Linux kernel watchdogs instead	20:28
johnx	they should have used anything instead of bme	20:28
AStorm	another hit on the head is retu*	20:28
AStorm	I guess it's stupid TI NDA	20:29
Navi	so uh, how exactly do you use dsmetool? :/	20:29
AStorm	Navi: you don't - that's how you prevent matchbox from restarting	20:29
AStorm	or the device from rebooting when X server fails	20:29
johnx	you make sure it doesn't get launched by dsmetool	20:29
AStorm	and other things	20:29
johnx	dsmetool watches things waiting for them to die and then if they do it freaks the hell out and reboots	20:30
AStorm	I find matchbox to be restarting quite often	20:30
Navi	mmk	20:30
johnx	...to use some technical language...	20:30
AStorm	johnx: or restarts the program in question	20:30
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AStorm	that depends on the option	20:30
AStorm	btw, why is that matchbox so crashy?	20:30
johnx	hmm? I've never had matchbox crash on zaurus or nokia...	20:31
AStorm	crashes at least once a day	20:31
AStorm	maybe it's some applet that makes it crash?	20:31
johnx	btw, dsmetool has at least a vaguel useful help text	20:31
AStorm	johnx: :>	20:31
johnx	that was more aimed at Navi	20:31
AStorm	btw, I should be able to design a better environment that that matchbox	20:32
AStorm	*than	20:32
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Navi	So uh, how do I prevent dsmetool from running scratchbox? I'm thoroughly confused.	20:33
AStorm	from what?	20:33
AStorm	you mean, restarting matchbox?	20:33
Navi	Yeah	20:33
AStorm	remove it from the line that starts it	20:33
AStorm	:-)	20:33
johnx	grep matchbox /etc/init.d/* \| grep dsmetool	20:33
AStorm	(its options too)	20:33
Navi	Can't find the init script that starts matchbox	20:33
AStorm	...	20:33
johnx	shotgun approach	20:34
AStorm	Navi: find /etc \| xargs grep -Hn matchbox	20:34
AStorm	if there is xargs on it	20:34
AStorm	I think there is	20:34
Navi	johnx, fail	20:34
johnx	it's /etc/osso-af-init/matchbox.sh	20:35
AStorm	whee	20:35
Navi	there's no references to dsmetool in there	20:35
Navi	except that one comment line	20:35
johnx	what do you think that variable that launches PROG is?	20:35
johnx	~lart Nokia for their non-standard init scripts	20:36
* infobot takes out Nokia with the trash for their non-standard init scripts		20:36
AStorm	btw, where can I grab a table charger for that battery BP-4L?	20:36
johnx	ebay?	20:36
AStorm	the one for N810	20:36
AStorm	johnx: wrong country :/	20:36
johnx	local ebay equivalent?	20:36
AStorm	unavailable :\|	20:36
AStorm	why no one produces that?	20:37
johnx	(you're not missing much...)	20:37
johnx	hold up a Nokia shop?	20:37
AStorm	no such thing there	20:37
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AStorm	I can't find one on the net, except some OEM thingy	20:37
AStorm	that supposedly works	20:37
AStorm	but can't buy it anywhere	20:37
AStorm	btw, is the battery smart? (That is, charge circuitry inside)	20:38
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johnx	That's a question I'd like answered as well	20:39
RST38h	Astorm: it is	20:39
AStorm	if it's stupid, I'd need exact charge specs	20:39
AStorm	if not, I can build a 3,7V charger just fine	20:39
AStorm	or adapt an existing one	20:39
AStorm	(that is, mod the case and pins)	20:40
AStorm	~lart Nokia for using micro-star screws	20:41
* infobot slaps Nokia upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh for using micro-star screws		20:41
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AStorm	100 screwdrivers and I still don't have that one	20:42
trollasaurus	You need a better set.	20:42
AStorm	I do have one	20:43
AStorm	I just don't have a star that small :P	20:43
AStorm	fortunately, can unscrew it with flat one :>	20:44
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RST38h	AStorm: If I understand things correctly, you only need to replace the jack, not the power supply?	20:46
AStorm	more or less	20:47
AStorm	I'd personally use a microjack plug, should fit	20:48
AStorm	but Nokia thought well about those chargers needing a lot of replacement	20:48
AStorm	I wonder why they didn't provide USB charging	20:49
AStorm	that's exactly 0,25 of a chip ;P	20:49
fang64_	Astorm: they have a Usb Adapter for the them lol although a bit annoying	20:49
AStorm	yup	20:50
RST38h	have you seen their USB connector?	20:50
RST38h	Do you really want to break and have to replace THAT?	20:50
AStorm	usb wouldn't break	20:51
AStorm	it's large enough	20:51
GeneralAntilles	I've never managed to break a Nokia barrel charger. <_<	20:51
fang64_	I haven't either, it's the first time I've heard of being a problem	20:52
AStorm	I managed to break the plug. Twice.	20:52
AStorm	Maybe I'm unlucky or handling it too roughly ;P	20:52
GeneralAntilles	Likely	20:52
GeneralAntilles	I haven't exactly handled mine gently, either, though.	20:52
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fang64_	sounds like my luck with cell phones flying onto the highway	20:52
johnx	I feel more comfortable with the bigger zaurus/psp charger, but my n800 charger hasn't broken yet...	20:52
johnx	just the "barrel" part I mean...	20:53
AStorm	does N800 have that flimsy 1mm 5V plug, or the older one?	20:54
AStorm	Now Nokia is required by Chinese to use USB port for charging ;P	20:54
GeneralAntilles	All Internet Tablets have exactly the same plug.	20:54
AStorm	argh	20:55
GeneralAntilles	Anybody know anything about "Imendio"? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo	20:55
AStorm	the problem is that getting these chargers here (Poland) is hard	20:55
GeneralAntilles	See the infobox. :\	20:55
AStorm	GeneralAntilles: these are the guys after that gnome communicator or something	20:56
solmumaha	johnx: yes	20:57
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AStorm	hmm, not much to see inside N810	20:58
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ImMelody	hrm?	20:58
qwerty12_N800	not much there :p	20:58
AStorm	apart from a LOT of free space	20:59
AStorm	gah	20:59
AStorm	they could've easily retained that FM radio	20:59
AStorm	and added zillion other things	20:59
MangoFusion	imendio are the guys who do the gtk port for mac os x	20:59
AStorm	4 cm^2 free	20:59
MangoFusion	amongst other things	20:59
qwerty12_N800	i dont even use fmradio tbh	21:00
ImMelody	me neither..	21:00
ImMelody	Actually.. I've never used it o.O	21:00
MangoFusion	in my n95 i have a radio, gps, and wifi. muhahaha	21:00
ImMelody	hurray for you?	21:01
AStorm	and you use none?	21:01
MangoFusion	not a good idea to turn them all on at the same time though, mind you	21:01
AStorm	gps is the same junk as in N810	21:01
MangoFusion	didn't even realise it had a radio till today	21:01
MangoFusion	;)	21:02
ImMelody	lol	21:02
johnx	AStorm, but hooked up to AGPS service in this case, IIRC	21:02
AStorm	no AGPS here, so...	21:02
AStorm	:P	21:02
AStorm	there's a minor problem... I can't unscrew the two screws holding the keyboard	21:02
AStorm	another diff. screw, even weirder	21:02
ImMelody	hrm.. any clue where the images for the status bar icons are kept?	21:03
AStorm	ah, yes, microstar-b	21:03
RST38h	General: Is it some new way to spam through Wiki?	21:03
GeneralAntilles	I dunno	21:03
qwerty12_N800	ImMelody: /usr/share/icons/hicolor/hildon afair	21:03
GeneralAntilles	^	21:04
ImMelody	thanks	21:04
GeneralAntilles	Just grab the icons directory and all its subdirectories with sftp or something	21:04
GeneralAntilles	makes icon work a bit easier.	21:04
AStorm	blah	21:04
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AStorm	my tiny flat screwdriver can't grab it	21:04
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ImMelody	With the help of those HomeXXX apps, I've finally decided I can go through with my little pet project	21:05
qwerty12_N800	homexxx?	21:06
qwerty12_N800	excuse me	21:06
ImMelody	homeip, homewifi, homenetstats	21:06
GeneralAntilles	Capital X's make that bad. :P	21:06
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qwerty12_N800	lol, what i was thinking ;p	21:06
ImMelody	Sorry.. No desktop porn yet for the n8x0	21:06
ImMelody	Boys ;p	21:07
AStorm	argh!	21:08
AStorm	the keys are mounted on a single piece of plastic	21:08
qwerty12_N800	AStorm: dissappointed? :p	21:08
AStorm	no way to change the layout	21:08
GeneralAntilles	Paint!	21:08
AStorm	won't hold	21:09
ImMelody	HAHA	21:09
GeneralAntilles	Buy better paint!	21:09
elb	AStorm: USB charging is not supplied because USB can provide a maximum of 500mA, and the IT pulls more than that	21:11
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ImMelody	General, do you think doing three sets of icons would be easiest? one blue signifying when bluetooth is connected and one green when it's not, and like white when bluetooth is off totally? (if you remember what I'm up to)	21:13
AStorm	elb: blah blah	21:13
AStorm	there is a charger	21:13
AStorm	and N810 lives on 650 mA	21:13
elb	and 650mA > 500mA ;-)	21:14
GeneralAntilles	ImMelody, there was a significant amount of discussion on the icon coloring and usability for Bluetooth.	21:14
GeneralAntilles	I don't recall what the result of that was right now	21:14
elb	I suspect future generations will charge by USB, as power requirements are brought down	21:14
GeneralAntilles	But I'd say, blue: on and connected, white: on, gray: off	21:14
GeneralAntilles	and a redslash gray icon for offline mode.	21:14
ImMelody	right	21:15
qwerty12_N800	but doesn't the icon disappear when bt is off?	21:15
ImMelody	I couldn't remember the coloring everyone else thought either	21:15
AStorm	ok, power plug is easily replacable	21:15
AStorm	:>	21:15
ImMelody	I'm trying to make a new statusbar icon	21:15
AStorm	uhm, power socket	21:15
GeneralAntilles	With the default applet, qwerty12_N800.	21:15
AStorm	connected by two pins	21:15
AStorm	not pins	21:16
qwerty12_N800	GeneralAntilles: is another being made?	21:16
AStorm	slide-on ports	21:16
AStorm	or what its called	21:16
GeneralAntilles	GeneralAntilles, it's happening right around you. :P	21:16
ImMelody	qwerty, it's something I've been on and off working on for a few months now	21:16
qwerty12_N800	qwerty12_N800: qwerty12_N800 really?	21:16
qwerty12_N800	ImMelody: great :)	21:17
GeneralAntilles	s/GeneralAntilles/qwerty12_N800/	21:17
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: qwerty12_N800, it's happening right around you. :P	21:17
ImMelody	Combining wifi and bluetooth together	21:17
ImMelody	using the colors to signify whether or not the bluetooth is on.. then having a signal strength for the wifi	21:17
AStorm	there is both wifi and bluetooth antenna	21:17
AStorm	but not GPS one	21:17
qwerty12_N800	That does sound good, I went and removed the wifi icon of my statusbar today	21:18
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GeneralAntilles	It's too bad the icons are the easy part.	21:18
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ImMelody	yeah :(	21:18
ImMelody	but hopefully with Khertan's apps, I'll be able to get a little further	21:19
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AStorm	actually, rouing USB to power port would be easy	21:19
AStorm	adding a switch would be hard though	21:20
johnx	yeah, hasn't someone done it before?	21:20
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GeneralAntilles	AStorm, people have done it.	21:20
AStorm	where did they add the switch?	21:20
AStorm	and I'm talking about N810	21:20
johnx	it should be largely similar to the N800, no?	21:21
elb	I'm sure there is a GPS antenna	21:22
elb	but it's probably a patch	21:22
AStorm	nope	21:22
elb	it'll just look like a small square	21:22
elb	it could be on top of the GPS chip itself	21:22
elb	(though that would be a pretty small antenna)	21:22
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AStorm	nope, the gps has an antenna micro whatit' called port	21:24
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AStorm	the one wifi uses	21:24
AStorm	not connected	21:24
elb	yes, but that's probably not the only port	21:24
AStorm	do I smell a mod?	21:24
elb	it wouldn't work at all if it had no antenna whatsoever	21:24
AStorm	no, why?	21:24
elb	reception would simply be too poor	21:25
elb	particularly inside that metal case	21:25
AStorm	it's plastic	21:25
elb	you don't see a ceramic square anywhere inside the case?	21:25
elb	the n810?	21:25
elb	it's at least metallized	21:25
AStorm	yup	21:26
RST38h	Both GPS and WiFi antennas should be in the left upper corner of N810	21:26
RST38h	At least this is what the manual says	21:26
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elb	they might be able to share antennae, even, although that would be kind of surprising to me	21:27
elb	receive-only antennae are not as picky as those which have to transmit	21:27
AStorm	I see the antennas in the top part of the device	21:27
AStorm	the black plastic strip has them	21:27
AStorm	but I think one is wifi	21:27
AStorm	the other BT	21:27
AStorm	and no GPS	21:27
elb	bluetooth probably doesn't have an antenna you can distinguish	21:27
elb	it could be simply a trace on the circuit board	21:28
AStorm	no traces visible	21:28
elb	it doesn't have to be visible	21:28
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AStorm	every chip is nicely insulated, each has a cage	21:28
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elb	RF doesn't care ;-)	21:29
elb	so, the point is, physical reality dictates that there is a GPS antenna somewhere	21:29
elb	whether or not you can locate it	21:29
AStorm	wait	21:30
AStorm	there is a strip of gold or cu	21:30
AStorm	aaaand...	21:31
AStorm	the whole screen has a back from aluminum	21:31
elb	if that strip is zig-zag and occupies 1cmx.5cm or so, it's almost certainly a bluetooth antenna	21:32
AStorm	it's straight	21:32
elb	then I don't know	21:33
AStorm	0,5mm x 2cm	21:33
AStorm	blah	21:33
elb	there's no reason a bluetooth antenna has to be zig-zag, of course	21:33
AStorm	2mm x2cm	21:33
elb	but they typically are, to save space	21:33
AStorm	hehe	21:33
elb	RF gets wonky at those frequencies	21:33
AStorm	that is certainly GPS antenna	21:34
elb	no, the GPS antenna won't be a trace	21:34
AStorm	the BT antenna is close to battery	21:34
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elb	it's probably a patch	21:34
AStorm	it IS a patch	21:34
AStorm	not a trace	21:34
elb	I think you don't know what a patch antenna is ;-)	21:34
elb	it would be square, and have visible cutouts in the traces	21:34
AStorm	it's really tiny	21:34
AStorm	and it doesn't	21:35
AStorm	but it's certainly NOT a BT antenna	21:35
AStorm	bt antenna isin the back, 100% sure	21:35
elb	http://www.alphamicrocomponents.com/components/product~line~48~id~470.asp <-- there's a picture of a GPS antenna next to a micro connector	21:35
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elb	it might not be an antenna at all, of course	21:35
AStorm	it is in the place that affects GPS...	21:36
AStorm	left top corner of the device	21:36
AStorm	a strip of gold	21:36
elb	I can see that logic is futile here	21:36
* elb checks out		21:36
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AStorm	close to left speaker	21:37
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AStorm	or i've got it the wrong way around	21:38
AStorm	there is something close to gps chip... that touches its shielding	21:39
AStorm	might be the antenna too, size iscorrect	21:39
AStorm	just right to the battery port	21:39
RST38h	Can you simply show us the image of the damn thing?	21:39
AStorm	yup, wait	21:39
AStorm	sorry for webcam quality	21:39
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AStorm	have to grab gqcam first...	21:44
AStorm	nah, w3cam is better	21:44
AStorm	ok, bt antenna is by the lock key apparently	21:46
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AStorm	a small chip, 1cmx2mm	21:47
AStorm	x1mm	21:47
AStorm	nah, wrong	21:47
AStorm	just the lock switch :P	21:47
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lcuk	is there nokia porn going on that im missing out on. i wanna see a stripped down 810	21:53
lcuk	elb,astorm wakey wakey.. ^	21:53
AStorm	lcdd: ....	21:54
AStorm	lcuk: :>	21:54
elb	heh I don't have the disassembled unit, AStorm does :-)	21:54
AStorm	in a while	21:54
AStorm	right now, I'm setting up the webcam	21:54
AStorm	vidcat is ok, but doesn't give time for cam to autoadjust the brightness	21:54
lcuk	sod the webcam, wheres the mood lighting and get that nokia a drink. i wanna see it from all angles	21:55
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* qwerty12_N800 is getting excited over this talk of nokia porn		21:55
qwerty12_N800	AStorm: Plan on distributing a dvd? :p	21:56
* johnx is getting skeered. :sleeps instead of waiting around to see where this goes:		21:56
AStorm	qwerty12_N800: lol	21:56
lcuk	well i dont think anyones ever seen beneath its cover before, the most its done is lifted its screen and shown a bit of ankle	21:56
AStorm	hehehe	21:56
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AStorm	if you tell me how to NOT photograph myself while grabbing vid with mplayer, then... maybe a vid	21:57
lcuk	might i ask, why are you invading her privacy?	21:58
AStorm	because of the power socket	21:58
GeneralAntilles	There's are enough dissection pics online.	21:58
AStorm	GeneralAntilles: of N810, or N800? ;P	21:58
lcuk	of the 810?	21:58
ImMelody	Am I the only one that has thought of my nokia as a guy?	21:58
GeneralAntilles	Both	21:58
AStorm	goodie	21:58
AStorm	ImMelody: hehehe	21:58
GeneralAntilles	Heck, the FCC docs have all sorts of pictures of the board.	21:58
elb	probably, because I think of mine as an inanimate object	21:58
AStorm	yup	21:58
AStorm	GeneralAntilles: board, sure	21:58
GeneralAntilles	Haha, elb.	21:58
qwerty12_N800	Well, i consider mine both, as it has a hole and an ejecting camera	21:59
AStorm	do they have pics of the various antennas?	21:59
ImMelody	I think my nokia is very masculine	21:59
AStorm	qwerty12_N800: N810 doesn't have the ejecting camera	21:59
AStorm	:P	21:59
lcuk	you have to stroke the nokia gently. you cannot be rough with it at all	21:59
ImMelody	qwerty12_N800: you realize, guys have a hole too, right? ;)	21:59
lcuk	so what happened to the power port	21:59
AStorm	nothing	22:00
AStorm	I'm mad at the plugs breaking	22:00
qwerty12_N800	ImMelody: Of course, it's how the air gets to my brain!	22:00
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AStorm	and there's enough space for the larger variant	22:00
AStorm	it's easily replacable, the socket	22:00
ImMelody	lol	22:00
lcuk	hmmm upgrades!	22:01
AStorm	:>	22:01
GeneralAntilles	AStorm, Nokia tends to use the same components across their product lines	22:01
GeneralAntilles	it costs less money	22:01
AStorm	yup	22:01
GeneralAntilles	The fat plug has been phased out.	22:01
AStorm	yes	22:01
AStorm	USB plug has been phased in	22:01
AStorm	thus I need an USB charge mod	22:02
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, show me a pic of an 810 before astorm then	22:02
AStorm	lcuk: :>	22:02
elb	AStorm: have you had plugs actaully break?	22:02
elb	or is this theoretical?	22:02
lcuk	ive tried looking in the usual places	22:02
lcuk	who cares, dont try and talk him out of it	22:02
elb	heh	22:02
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lcuk	it should go back together (mostly)	22:03
lcuk	i took apart my toshiba 6100 the other night, before i thought to go online and check i had a bed full of jigsaw pieces. when i went back online i found the guide with 3 sodding pages full of detailed pictures showing the teardown	22:04
lcuk	i wouldnt have started if i had known..	22:04
qwerty12_N800	I broke my Pocket pc opening it. I have to press on the screen for the display with a broken backlight appears.	22:05
KotCzarny	lcuk: you should have simply googled for service manual	22:06
KotCzarny	at least ibm and dell have them	22:06
AStorm	elb: actually	22:06
AStorm	and twice	22:06
AStorm	And N810 is already apart, so...	22:07
AStorm	time for pics	22:07
lcuk	nokia is mia	22:07
* KotCzarny goes into darkness of backlog		22:09
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Cptnodegard	does evince support bought pdf ebooks? i think thweres some drm crap on them	22:15
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GeneralAntilles	No, Cptnodegard.	22:16
Cptnodegard	-____-	22:17
Cptnodegard	gay drm crap :(	22:17
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, don't support it with your money. :P	22:17
Cptnodegard	couldnt find the book in #bookz on udnernet	22:17
* Jaffa publishes his blog post, and thanks y'all for your help with it		22:17
AStorm	ok, pics done	22:18
Cptnodegard	post-nemesis star trek books, apaprently too new to be there	22:18
* Cptnodegard buys a kindle		22:18
GeneralAntilles	Ha	22:18
GeneralAntilles	Star Trek books.	22:18
Cptnodegard	what? -__-	22:19
AStorm	sorry for lack of quality :>	22:19
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AStorm	http://astralstorm.bounceme.net/n810/	22:23
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qwerty12_N800	unable to connect :(, i wanna see my n810 porn :p	22:24
AStorm	ehhh...	22:24
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AStorm	lighttpd failing at me	22:25
AStorm	fcgi, to be exact	22:27
AStorm	now working	22:28
qwerty12_N800	OH YES	22:29
* qwerty12_N800 is DOWNLOADING RIGHT NOW AND GETTING MY CREDIT CARD OUT		22:30
AStorm	:P	22:30
czr	maybe you should order a COBOL programming book while at it :-)	22:30
Cptnodegard	you borked it o.o	22:30
AStorm	no	22:30
AStorm	it's just disassembled	22:30
AStorm	:-)	22:30
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AStorm	reassembling now :P	22:31
KotCzarny	astorm!	22:31
KotCzarny	wait!	22:31
KotCzarny	take photos!	22:31
AStorm	I did	22:31
KotCzarny	there's no 810 pr0n on internet, yet	22:31
KotCzarny	:)	22:31
AStorm	KotCzarny: http://astralstorm.bounceme.net/n810/	22:31
AStorm	sorry for bootleg quality ;P	22:31
KotCzarny	:)	22:31
Cptnodegard	someone should find a chick and take real IT pr0n	22:32
AStorm	:P	22:32
KotCzarny	'if you look long enough you will see tits' ?	22:32
KotCzarny	:)	22:32
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KotCzarny	hmm	22:32
KotCzarny	astorm, why are the pic reversed?	22:33
KotCzarny	O.o	22:33
KotCzarny	*is	22:33
qwerty12_N800	I'd push the n810's buttons any time...	22:33
RST38h	AStorm: that is highly amateurish pr0n	22:33
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KotCzarny	better than nothing	22:34
KotCzarny	:)	22:34
RST38h	But the antennas will probably be under the white layer of plastic	22:35
AStorm	RST38h: nah, that's the keyboard	22:35
AStorm	:-)	22:35
AStorm	the rubber part of the keyboard lies on top of these switches	22:35
KotCzarny	:)	22:35
ImMelody	OMG! I totally forgot to factor in data calls!	22:36
* ImMelody cries		22:36
AStorm	:P	22:36
KotCzarny	data calls?	22:36
KotCzarny	are you on some pay-per-byte plan?	22:37
ImMelody	lol...no	22:37
AStorm	reassembly 50% complete	22:37
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ImMelody	I forgot to factor in data calls when I started making my icons	22:37
fysa	AStorm: which memory chip does it use? accessible?	22:37
practisevoodoo	is there any diff between getting a minisd or a microsd and an adapter?	22:37
KotCzarny	other than size?	22:38
KotCzarny	:)	22:38
AStorm	everything is under the grills it seems	22:38
GeneralAntilles	wifi/adhoc/data/GPRS	22:38
practisevoodoo	yeah	22:38
AStorm	fysa: I won't be taking these off	22:38
AStorm	they're real pain to mount back	22:38
ImMelody	data is only online, connecting or off, right?	22:39
AStorm	reassembly 80% complete	22:39
RST38h	practice: 8GB cards are only available in microsd format	22:39
RST38h	but not minisd	22:39
RST38h	AStorm: severely scary stuff	22:40
KotCzarny	erm	22:40
KotCzarny	full size sd too	22:40
KotCzarny	;)	22:40
* qwerty12_N800 needs to set up localepurge again :(		22:41
RST38h	Well, full size sd won't fit into that hole, so it is out of consideration	22:43
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acydlord	there are microsd to minisd adapters	22:43
ImMelody	Why did they decide to go with miniSD instead of regular SD for 810?	22:44
AStorm	space	22:44
AStorm	there's no way a full sd would fit	22:44
KotCzarny	rst38h: drill it	22:44
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AStorm	they could've used 2x microsd though	22:44
BugBlue	because minisd is cooler	22:44
ImMelody	yeah	22:44
* BugBlue has actually a microsd card in his n810		22:45
* AStorm too		22:45
* BugBlue awaits the first 'dual microsd to minisd' adapter at dealextreme.com (it's chinese crap but hey it works)		22:45
AStorm	reassembly 95% complete	22:45
* KotCzarny has dual full size sd cards in his n800		22:45
KotCzarny	:)	22:45
AStorm	and now I get that "shit I forgot to put those two screws in" feeling	22:46
KotCzarny	;))	22:46
KotCzarny	'hey, i've got spare parts'	22:46
KotCzarny	;)	22:46
KotCzarny	'but i don't see any empty holes'	22:47
AStorm	exactly	22:47
BugBlue	AStorm: that's why I make maps on paper where I get the screws from and work backwards from that map when I put it together again	22:47
AStorm	there are holes	22:47
BugBlue	AStorm: laptops, mobile phones, ...	22:47
AStorm	inside	22:47
AStorm	not much work now though	22:47
KotCzarny	bugblue: ibm thinkpads have (dis)assembly manuals	22:47
BugBlue	take a sheet of paper, draw the device (very simple) and number the screws :P	22:47
BugBlue	KotCzarny: apple's too... and you know what the fun is, most of these manuals miss one or 2 screws	22:48
BugBlue	damn	22:48
BugBlue	my mobile phone is empty	22:48
AStorm	I know which two I forgot ;P	22:48
BugBlue	means: IRC is empty	22:48
KotCzarny	bugblue: that's not the case in thinkpads	22:48
KotCzarny	:)	22:48
BugBlue	lot: most hardware I touch isn't IBM hardware	22:50
BugBlue	kot<tab>: I mean	22:51
KotCzarny	:)	22:51
AStorm	ofc, forgot keyboard screws :P	22:51
AStorm	hmm, no	22:52
AStorm	where do these two come from...	22:52
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KotCzarny	:>	22:52
KotCzarny	maybe from another device?	22:53
AStorm	no, I don't use any microstar screws	22:53
AStorm	ahhhh, my bad	22:54
AStorm	no need to dismantle again	22:54
AStorm	from the stand	22:54
KotCzarny	:)	22:54
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GeneralAntilles	I need to buy something to adjust my kickstand.	22:55
AStorm	there are exactly 6 screws in n810	22:55
GeneralAntilles	It's a little loose after a year of heavy use.	22:55
KotCzarny	superglue works wonders	22:56
KotCzarny	if something is loose	22:56
KotCzarny	;)	22:56
* lcuk never uses his kickstand		22:59
lcuk	unless changing the battery	22:59
* KotCzarny uses it sometimes during skype sessions or vid watching		23:00
GeneralAntilles	It's always open when it's set down on my desk.	23:00
KotCzarny	also it takes less space on desk	23:00
KotCzarny	:)	23:00
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lcuk	i cant use the stylus with it on stand	23:03
KotCzarny	be gentle	23:03
KotCzarny	;)	23:03
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KotCzarny	using finger nails can work too	23:04
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, let ur shoulders lean back :p	23:04
lcuk	i always am but it still falls over	23:04
KotCzarny	not gentle enough :)	23:04
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lcuk	mouse pressure reads "Are you touching me?"	23:04
* lcuk looks at his stumpy chewed fingers		23:05
KotCzarny	u touchin me? huh? u touchin? angry sounds	23:05
lcuk	SEXUAL HARASSMENT, theres some guy touching me and another one stripped me before and took naughty pictures of me	23:06
lcuk	i wonder if the n95 will protect his sister	23:06
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GeneralAntilles	Creepy bastard. . . .	23:07
ImMelody	GeneralAntilles: GPRS and Data calls are either just on or off, right?	23:08
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GeneralAntilles	GPRS, definitely.	23:08
GeneralAntilles	Data, I've never used.	23:08
GeneralAntilles	Grab the icons directory and look at 'em.	23:08
AStorm	blah, broke the kick stand ;P	23:08
AStorm	I mean, the stops	23:08
KotCzarny	lol	23:08
AStorm	let's see ;P	23:08
lcuk	how?	23:08
ImMelody	I have them and it just has two icons.. one for GPRS and one for data call	23:08
ImMelody	I just wanted to make 100% before just making two blue icons XD	23:09
AStorm	lcuk: something didn't click apparently	23:09
AStorm	let's see again	23:09
KotCzarny	that's what you get after getting naughty and stripping underage technology	23:09
AStorm	hahaha	23:10
AStorm	"she said she was 18"	23:10
KotCzarny	..months	23:10
RST38h	AStorm: Have you taken measures btw?	23:10
KotCzarny	;)	23:10
AStorm	RST38h: measures of what?	23:11
AStorm	I took pictures :-)	23:11
RST38h	AStorm: The Measures	23:11
AStorm	ah, these	23:11
AStorm	sure	23:11
RST38h	The Measures to prevent it from giving birth to a a hybrid monster	23:11
KotCzarny	o.o	23:12
RST38h	You know, the listtle OMAP-based AStorm	23:12
KotCzarny	avoid thunderstorms.	23:12
RST38h	s/listtle/little/	23:12
infobot	RST38h meant: You know, the little OMAP-based AStorm	23:12
lcuk	n810-AStorm the black sheep of the NIT family	23:12
KotCzarny	:)	23:12
GeneralAntilles	<_<	23:12
KotCzarny	hmm, wait, is n810 male or female?	23:12
KotCzarny	O.o	23:12
KotCzarny	and more importantly, is astorm male or female?	23:12
KotCzarny	o.O	23:12
AStorm	ahha, attached the stand the wrong way	23:13
lcuk	you don;t stroke a male as gently as you stroke your nokia internet tablet	23:13
AStorm	KotCzarny: I give you two guesses	23:13
KotCzarny	o.o	23:13
lcuk	whenever i try to be gentle stroking my man pussy he bites and claws at my hand	23:13
KotCzarny	character.	23:14
KotCzarny	:)	23:14
KotCzarny	mine is female, and bites and claws too	23:14
lcuk	mine are called george and lennon :D we are gettin a new cat in a few weeks called mcartney	23:14
KotCzarny	where is yoko	23:14
KotCzarny	;)	23:15
fysa	creepy	23:15
qwerty12_N800	N800 cannot determine the signal of a phone so i would assume it is just 2	23:15
qwerty12_N800	Has anyone connected xbox controller? Fanoush's kernel has xpad driver as module.	23:15
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lcuk	the last female cat we had was called elvis, and to say she was the neighbourhood bike was an understatement	23:15
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KotCzarny	neighbourhood bike?	23:15
lcuk	(dont ask why she was called elvis btw..)	23:15
lcuk	yes, all the other cats used to ride her	23:16
AStorm	yay	23:16
AStorm	now the kickstand works better than before ;P	23:16
lcuk	wicked	23:16
KotCzarny	:)	23:16
KotCzarny	it will break faster	23:17
KotCzarny	i mean the clicking parts will get flat	23:17
AStorm	nope	23:17
AStorm	they're made from metal	23:17
KotCzarny	metal can get flat too	23:17
AStorm	sure	23:17
AStorm	but first, the keyboard will fail	23:17
AStorm	or the screen	23:18
KotCzarny	or the user	23:18
KotCzarny	:)	23:18
AStorm	screen works	23:18
* AStorm gains 50% to his Repair skill		23:18
lcuk	so why did you do this again?	23:19
lcuk	<though you have gained much credit for your actions :) )	23:19
AStorm	to see how to replace the damned plug	23:19
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AStorm	uhm, power socket	23:19
lcuk	has it actually broken	23:19
AStorm	no	23:19
lcuk	just planning for the future	23:19
AStorm	what broke is the plug	23:19
AStorm	exactly	23:19
AStorm	conversion to USB power supply	23:20
AStorm	btw, I saw 5 pins in micro-USB	23:20
AStorm	hmm, 5 wires	23:20
AStorm	or what you will	23:20
lcuk	would that work or would it fry anything in the usb if you connect both	23:20
AStorm	which are + and -5V?	23:20
AStorm	well...	23:20
lcuk	dont know specifically for that plug type	23:20
AStorm	I could put two diodes	23:20
KotCzarny	just google it	23:20
AStorm	so no burnup	23:20
KotCzarny	:)	23:20
lcuk	yer kot, it is around	23:21
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lcuk	theres some russian connector site somewhere	23:21
lcuk	infact ive got links somewhere	23:21
lcuk	http://pinouts.ru/Devices/mini-USB_pinout.shtml	23:21
lcuk	confirm everything first	23:21
KotCzarny	hmm	23:22
KotCzarny	pin x is between 3 and 4 ?	23:22
KotCzarny	O.o	23:22
AStorm	that's mini-USB	23:22
AStorm	not micro-USB	23:22
KotCzarny	in n800 it's mini-usb	23:23
AStorm	I only care about +5V and GND	23:23
AStorm	these two are exposed as nice two solder points :> the 5V socket is replacable	23:24
AStorm	how's it called... sliding connection or whatever	23:24
AStorm	really crummy	23:24
AStorm	not connected to the board at all :>	23:25
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AStorm	fortunately, <1 A, so it doesn't spark ;P	23:27
lcuk	*doesnt spark at a range visible to your eye	23:28
AStorm	nah, shouldn't	23:29
KotCzarny	i have always thought it's V that's important for sparks	23:29
KotCzarny	not A	23:29
KotCzarny	;)	23:29
AStorm	both are	23:29
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KotCzarny	not really	23:30
KotCzarny	i think	23:30
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KotCzarny	unless you know something i don't	23:31
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lcuk	high voltage low ampage can produce huge sparks (tesla coil) 10KV 250ma	23:39
KotCzarny	yes	23:40
glass	voltage defines if it will jump, afaik	23:40
KotCzarny	that's what i have said	23:40
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KotCzarny	but if you provide 1000A and 0.0000001V	23:40
KotCzarny	then it won't spark	23:40
lcuk	no, but that shit willkill you	23:40
KotCzarny	assuming material is resistant to sparks below 1V	23:40
KotCzarny	we are talking about sparks	23:40
KotCzarny	not killing with high current	23:40
KotCzarny	:)	23:40
lcuk	i thought astorm had electrified his n810 as an alarm	23:41
lcuk	BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT! Owwww!	23:41
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AStorm	:P	23:41
AStorm	not yet	23:41
AStorm	ok, time to read Micro USB pinout	23:42
KotCzarny	hmm	23:43
KotCzarny	i think electrified n810 would kill itself	23:43
KotCzarny	:)	23:43
KotCzarny	\|> My Head Feels like a Frisbee - Shpongle (Tales of the Inexpressible)	23:43
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cyberholic	gooood evening everyone!	23:44
KotCzarny	i can only think of high current producing sparks as the result of wire meltdown	23:44
KotCzarny	:)	23:44
KotCzarny	wire/insulator meltdown	23:44
cyberholic	hey people, i have just found a SPLENDID way to destroy the screen of my n800!	23:44
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KotCzarny	cyberholic: hammer is the best	23:44
cyberholic	http://www.mojocafe.net/test.html	23:44
AStorm	cyberholic: :>	23:44
cyberholic	sorry. http://www.mojocafe.net/test.swf i meant	23:45
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cyberholic	hammer is the name of a german METAL-ROCK magazine lol	23:45
KotCzarny	i know	23:45
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KotCzarny	but it's metal hammer	23:45
KotCzarny	afair	23:45
AStorm	lol	23:45
KotCzarny	:)	23:45
cyberholic	And rock is wwhat you can do with the test.swf looooool	23:45
KotCzarny	unless they have changed the name	23:45
cyberholic	kot: ya right! .... the flash performance on the n800 is so slow, that i am only able to play "we will rock you" from Queen on the test.swf :)	23:46
KotCzarny	:)	23:46
KotCzarny	cyberholic, optimize, optimize	23:46
lcuk	hey cyberholic you takin ideas again :P that would work better with touchscreen pressure data :P	23:46
KotCzarny	do you really need the drum app rendered with 'high' quality?	23:46
cyberholic	lcuk: looool... touch sensitive you mean? come one! Tell me ONE rock band that is touch sensitive ;)	23:46
lcuk	:D you have a drum on your logo	23:47
lcuk	actually no i meant pressure sensitive, hold your drumsticks and drum soft or drum hard	23:47
cyberholic	Kot: thanks a lot man! i forgot that one again! I will switch that!	23:47
KotCzarny	heh..	23:47
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cyberholic	lcuk: i know! it's ab cow-bell because i am such a pig lol	23:47
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lcuk	i keep saing your efforts would be so much more appreciated if you came to the darkside and started coding natively	23:48
KotCzarny	lcuk, ask him if he owns a nokia tablet first	23:48
KotCzarny	:)	23:48
cyberholic	lcuk :) .... "came to the darkside" equals "get employed by NOKIA" ? pffffff Luke - i am your farther" pfffffffffff	23:49
Tama^2	Hello	23:49
lcuk	wooot, then i must be employed by nokia, kot you as well, pupnik, did you know you were on the payroll, anyone else?	23:49
cyberholic	Hello Tama.... i'm your father Tama! pfffffffff	23:49
Tama^2	now I know why I am so UGLY!	23:50
cyberholic	rofl ... nah ya not! I was just kidding.	23:50
lcuk	ugly? or his father?	23:50
cyberholic	Hey people.... want me to add some basslines to the drum-machine?	23:50
AStorm	I will soon be... why not	23:50
AStorm	:>	23:50
AStorm	cyberholic: first, make the drums louder	23:50
AStorm	they're puny now	23:50
lcuk	turn them upto 11	23:51
KotCzarny	cyberholic: if you want more clicks find a thread on itt that was about drum machine	23:51
cyberholic	AStorm: impossible..... can't you plug your device to your stereo? gg	23:51
KotCzarny	bt ear drum killer	23:51
KotCzarny	;)	23:51
lcuk	do what the kids tv studios do: increase sampling rate. pump up and clip the samples	23:51
cyberholic	Kot: i do not want more clicks - i want from all of you your love 8x	23:51
cyberholic	Kot: but i will mention it on ITT	23:52
AStorm	cyberholic: I prefer my headphones	23:52
KotCzarny	cyberholic: i mean, those will be the people actually interested in this specific app	23:52
lcuk	KotCzarny, cyberholic has an 800 ive seen pictures	23:52
cyberholic	Kot: so you still don`t love me? :[	23:52
KotCzarny	cyberholic: find that thread, don't just start new one :)	23:52
KotCzarny	cyberholic: i'm ambivalent :)	23:52
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cyberholic	Ok, i hvae updated it and set som Credits (now you three will hate me!)... http://www.mojocafe.net/test.swf	23:55
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gribouille	are sd cards hot-swappable ?	23:56
KotCzarny	does lowering the quality helped with speed?	23:56
KotCzarny	grib: yes	23:57
cyberholic	well a bit indeed!	23:57
cyberholic	The sound-response is much quicker!	23:57
KotCzarny	good	23:57
lcuk	hey, i didnt help	23:57
cyberholic	but if you play a lot of the instruments my device starts to hate me!	23:57
* lcuk is a hinderance		23:57
gribouille	KotCzarny, If I put an sd card in my tablet, is it automatically mounted ?	23:58
cyberholic	lcuk: but you take your time and in days like these, time is very valuable!	23:58
KotCzarny	grib: assuming it's vfat	23:58
KotCzarny	and formatted	23:58
gribouille	KotCzarny, and what happens if I remove a card without unmounting the file system ?	23:58
KotCzarny	grib: when you open sd cover it umount automatically	23:59
cyberholic	shall i put a "music-teacher" in the drum machine? it could blink up so that you will learn to play "we will rock you" looool.	23:59
KotCzarny	ie. open latch and see if the card is still mounted	23:59
lcuk	i cant hear the highhat options	23:59
KotCzarny	(but don't eject the card)	23:59
KotCzarny	cyberholic: is there a midi player in flash?	23:59
gribouille	KotCzarny, why not ?	23:59
cyberholic	yep	23:59

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