IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2008-04-02

celestehand then upload it to flickr00:00
celestehthe internal camera on the n800 is totally crap00:00
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celestehi also want a pony00:02
KotCzarnywhat will you do with it?00:03
celestehthe pony?  um, well, of course, it needs a mapping application and variable speeds.  also, i'd like it to go at least 10 hours between charges00:03
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KotCzarnyare we talking about real pony or some gadget?00:04
wndinflatable, perhaps...00:05
celesteha pony boy . . .00:05
KotCzarnythe goggles! they do nothing!00:05
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KotCzarnycelesteh: i can tell you one thing, interracial stuff is inpractical00:06
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KotCzarnyand clumsy sometimes00:06
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celestehum, i assume this is a matapor i don't know, kotczarny?00:06
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KotCzarnyhow should i interpret 'pony boy' ?00:07
* celesteh does not actually seek a pony boy00:07
celestehheh, well, if you look in google (or have ever been unfortunate enough to work for a search engine) pony boy actualy refers to humans who like to, um, dress up00:08
KotCzarnyyou mean, furries?00:08
celestehno, this seems to be much more specific00:08
GeneralAntillesHowdy, Tama^2.00:10
KotCzarnyfurries dressed like a ponies?00:10
Tama^2Hello GA00:10
skiburany good microproccess that can be coded in C++?00:10
lcuk2omg ponies!!! :D00:11
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lcuk2got a mail today:   From: John   Subject: Remove!!!                  i replied:   Remove!!! what!!! from!!! where???00:12
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KotCzarnyanti-viagra ad?00:12
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lcuk2no, real person one of my addresses is quite basic - and picks up lots of other gmail addies00:13
lcuk2theres loads of  and people copy and paste and forget the first part00:13
lcuk2i have all kinds of nutters mailing it00:15
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KotCzarnyand misspellers?00:15
lcuk2nahhh, thats my other one00:15
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KotCzarnyemo pony00:16
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lcuk2thats been photoshopped. the reflections are all wrong00:16
KotCzarnythere was something in background00:16
KotCzarnyon that pic00:16
lcuk2a KotCzarny in a pony suit?00:16
KotCzarnydon't know00:17
lcuk2i shouldnt laugh at ponies and stuff though.00:17
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lcuk2their relative (donkey) is a bit pissed at us after me and my dad almost ran one over :S00:18
KotCzarnydonkey have a character00:18
lcuk2we had to wipe donkey spit off the windscreen and pay for damage to the car00:18
lcuk2but it was still standing00:18
keesjOn the same site I Web Design!   If you like what you see on these pages let Big Sky Web Design create a cost effective web site for you.00:18
KotCzarnykeesj.. i just used google images00:19
lcuk2small world00:19
KotCzarnyi try to avoid looking at the pages after that ;)00:19
lcuk2at least now we know what was in the background00:20
lcuk2a keesj in a pony suit :P00:20
lcuk2it actually looks quite easy on the eye00:20
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* lcuk2 likes a nice simple logical layout :)00:20
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pupnikdid you ever try building picodrive KotCzarny ?00:22
KotCzarnypupnik: nope00:23
KotCzarnyi'm fighting with mplayer right now00:23
KotCzarnyxv/nokia770 driver stopped working for me00:23
KotCzarnyand i don't know why00:23
KotCzarnytried old .25 and current .2600:24
lcuk2related to rotation?00:24
KotCzarnyi suspect xomap's randr path00:24
KotCzarnyon unrotated screen even00:24
keesjstop stop stop, stop stop stop, I can not handle any more urls for now. this is a serious channel about maemo development not about show me you mule00:24
lcuk2lol keesj00:24
KotCzarnyif the pony has 'maemo' written on it00:25
KotCzarnydoes it count?00:25
lcuk2its not like we are gettin in the way - i know this is serious business00:25
KotCzarnylcuk: btw. you should upgrade to firefox .13, feels more snappy00:26
KotCzarnywhen opening new tabs for example00:27
lcuk2i have done00:27
lcuk2as we spoke last night00:27
lcuk2what online games would be good to play with n8x0?00:27
KotCzarnyprobably flash games00:27
lcuk2what would you like to use your touchscreen to play00:27
KotCzarnybecause we don't have java00:27
lcuk2too slow00:27
oobmultiplayer notepad?00:27
GeneralAntillesWe need a NIT Doom/Quake community.00:27
lcuk2would air hockey be good against a real opponent00:27
KotCzarnywe have irc00:27
KotCzarnygps wars?00:28
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KotCzarnyor gps le mans00:28
lcuk2lol - would take too long to get a fix00:28
KotCzarnyi fix harder!00:28
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lcuk2what a wicked idea00:28
lcuk2decide on a track length and in respective part of town go walk/run/cycle/drive00:29
KotCzarnyhmm, multiplayer tetris00:29
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lcuk2thats the idea kot00:29
KotCzarnythere's xtris already00:29
keesjI wonder if I can attach that to a nokia tablet00:29
KotCzarnyprobably compiling o-o-t-b00:29
lcuk2keesj, would YOU let anyone pee near your nokia?00:30
fysathere's a new tetrinet replacement?00:30
KotCzarnyfysa: in the beginning, there was xtris00:30
fysayes, xtris is old.  didn't realize it was more than 2 players.00:30
KotCzarnyyes, it was00:30
keesjlcuk2: my nokia follows me everywhere.00:30
KotCzarnyup to 8 or 16 players00:30
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lcuk2ok, we have a camera a mic a touch screen and possibly a gps.  whilst we cant to tilt n shake, what can we use it all for00:30
lcuk2lol keesj00:31
KotCzarnywe have played it before exams in uni00:31
lcuk2doom is there isnt it00:31
lcuk2thats not designed for this device00:31
KotCzarnylcuk: camera based blinking game?00:31
celestehoh my god, this is bad news.  if i have doom, i wil never work again00:31
KotCzarnycelesteh: you're doomed00:31
GeneralAntillesI want to play Quake00:31
lcuk2sod that - ut99 for me :)00:32
fysaDiablo. ;)00:32
GeneralAntillesUT99 is a little out of its capabilities. :P00:32
GeneralAntillesBut, yeah, <3 UT9900:32
GeneralAntillesBest mods of any FPS ever.00:32
lcuk2not if we get the ermmm thingymabob working :)00:32
lcuk2we play every dinner00:32
lcuk2to be able to login from the device will be good :)00:33
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lcuk2KotCzarny, im expanding my save abilities.  im gonna udp them to my windows box as i perform actions..00:38
KotCzarnytell me.. what you're really up to?00:38
lcuk2learning :)00:38
KotCzarnyyeah.. sure..00:39
lcuk2putting all the pieces i have had infront of me for about 10 years together :)00:39
lcuk2but never had a device to do it on00:39
pupnikcelesteh, i found the most controllable 3d shooter to be solmumaha's Duke3d port00:40
KotCzarnystart making a lib00:40
lcuk2i told ya, ive been on methadone.00:40
pupnikofftopic: best unedited movie fight scene ever?  (4 minutes)
lcuk2everything i am doing has a small api - i can change the backend without touching the simplish frontend00:41
KotCzarnygood :)00:41
lcuk2flagged pupnik you got an off-youtube link to same thing so it can be viewed without signing in00:41
KotCzarnyTo view this video or group, please verify you are 18 or older by logging in or signing up.00:41
aquatixo/` The internet is for porn! o/`00:42
lcuk2is it better than hercules?00:42
lcuk2astarring arnold strong00:42
aquatix <- really funny00:42
aquatixand no rickroll :)00:42
lcuk2for the best wow soundtrack:
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aquatixlcuk2: hey, isn't that the same?00:44
lcuk2same background i think, diff song tho - this is the original00:45
lcuk2actually no its not00:45
lcuk2they are both diff00:45
KotCzarnynicely done00:46
lcuk2both v old tho00:46
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KotCzarnya riddle: how many patents can be on a plain cartoon box ?01:00
KotCzarnyanswer: i see 9 listed and 'other patents pending'01:00
* aquatix is too tired to understand the joke01:01
KotCzarnydamnit, it's a cartoon box.01:01
KotCzarnyi may be using wrong word01:01
KotCzarny'carton, cardboard box'01:02
aquatixah :)01:02
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aquatix9+more pending on the concept of `cardboard box'?01:02
KotCzarnyi don't know if it's on concept01:02
aquatixi get the point01:03
lcuk2how much multitouch does the iphone have?  is it 2 point only, or full chording?01:03
KotCzarnyus patents: 4932930 5147271 5375715 5381948 5400955 5713469 5988389 6394742 635819101:03
aquatixthere are things like `special way of ripping this part open' and such01:03
aquatixlcuk2: i think 201:04
GeneralAntillesI believe it's only 2 point.01:04
GeneralAntillesNot something I ever bothered to test.01:04
GeneralAntillesand I think it's an intentional software 'limitation'01:04
KotCzarny" Method and machine for forming cases with polygonal section made from a sheet material and cases thus obtained"01:04
lcuk2GeneralAntilles, it could be to do with the method they are using to detect touch01:05
aquatixKotCzarny: and that's why the patent office needs a thorough clean-up...01:05
lcuk2newest technology on touch would put a light sensor in every rgb pixel.  (uses light reflecting back off fingers from lcd backlight to detect touch :) )01:06
lcuk2i doubt they are using that tho01:06
KotCzarnylcuk: that would be expensive?01:06
GeneralAntillesThe newer MacBooks have 3-finger gestures01:06
GeneralAntillesFor forward/back01:06
GeneralAntillesFairly cool.01:06
lcuk2to be honest, it wouldnt be that bad - it can (apparantly) be produced with the same tech monitors are made with01:07
lcuk2its just an extra pixel going in the opposite direction01:07
KotCzarnymuch data01:07
lcuk2yes, but just like a webcam :)01:07
KotCzarnymore like scanner01:07
lcuk2not really, we use webcams to do photo analysis already01:08
GeneralAntillesI want a touchscreen technology that doesn't suck balls.01:08
NaviPerspective Pixel01:08
KotCzarnybut it will detect only close objects01:08
KotCzarnyotherwise it will pickup much noise01:08
KotCzarnylaser operated touchscreen?01:09
lcuk2wiimote does job well enough01:09
KotCzarnywith blue beam for rightclick01:10
lcuk2if you're holding something, might as well make it active as well01:10
KotCzarnyred for moving01:10
KotCzarnyand white for left click01:10
lcuk2just send movement over when it moves and a click signal when you click ;)01:10
KotCzarnyi should eat something01:11
lcuk2a horse or pony?01:11
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GeneralAntillesBe nice to get the Wiimote drivers a little less nasty.01:12
lcuk2it might actually01:12
NaviNothing wrong with the current Wiimote interpreters, libraries, and modules01:13
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GeneralAntillesThey need to be zero-effort.01:13
NaviLibraries like cwiid are up to the developers01:14
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Navithe effort that one needs to make to use a wiimote-based app is determined by the developer side.01:16
Navis/ side//01:17
infobotNavi meant: the effort that one needs to make to use a wiimote-based app is determined by the developer.01:17
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KotCzarnyah. well. i can't find xserver-xomap deb01:23
KotCzarnyi will have to compile it01:23
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johnxits in the repo...01:29
KotCzarnyhow can i get it then?01:29
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KotCzarnybecause i can't find it01:33
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johnxaaah...ok, I guess I repacked it. at least the source parts of the package are here to make rebuilding trivial:
KotCzarnyjohnx: that's what i have written01:36
johnxor use the one on or dpkg-repack the one on your tablet01:36
KotCzarnythat i will have to build one myself01:36
KotCzarnyand yes, i need original unpatched one01:37
KotCzarnybecause i suspects rotation patch brakes xv/nokia770 in mplayer01:37
KotCzarnyand i want to try unpatched first01:37
johnxah, try the newest rotation stuff01:37
johnxthat unbreaks it01:37
KotCzarnyi have tried01:38
KotCzarnythat's why i want to see what exactly brakes mplayer on my IT01:38
vlad_("breaks" :)01:38
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KotCzarnyi have written it correctly at first01:39
KotCzarnythen wrong form stuck in my mind01:39
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KotCzarnymy dictionary says 'brake' is an archaic form of break ;)01:40
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jottKotCzarny: i would just recommend re-installing my kernel and xomap this should be the easiest fix ;)01:42
KotCzarnyjott: hrm01:42
KotCzarnybut i believe mplayer was working01:42
jottthats why you should reinstall :)01:43
vlad_#define PIPESIZE qemu: Unsupported syscall: 33801:44
KotCzarnyi was getting 338 too01:44
vlad_yeah, seems harmless01:45
KotCzarnywith 4.[23]01:45
vlad_it was just funny because that #define was generated by a script01:45
jottwell when rotated only xv makes some trouble but in normal mode there are no problems, be it xv or omapfb output01:45
vlad_which seems to have included stderr output in its .h file01:45
jottmaybe it's your mplayer :p01:45
KotCzarnyjott: but i have mplayer binary that was working earlier01:45
KotCzarnyso it's not that01:45
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jottwell all i can say WORKSFORME bug  closed ;)01:46
KotCzarnyi will know for sure after i reinstall xomap01:46
jottand flash kernel01:47
KotCzarnyi had flashed original kernel01:47
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KotCzarnybtw. i've got mplayer's alsa output working by simply editing /etc/asound.conf01:48
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vlad_KotCzarny: bah, all these binaries run fine on the device, but I keep getting the qemu error (cannot enable executable stack as shared object requires)02:14
vlad_maybe this is too new?02:15
KotCzarnyso.2 ?02:15
vlad_er, .302:15
vlad_mm, there's an execstack tool02:15
vlad_that can flip that big02:15
KotCzarnyi believe whole sys should be rebuilt..02:15
KotCzarnyor maybe try compiling gcc with glibc2.5 ?02:16
KotCzarnynative one02:16
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vlad_KotCzarny: ok, using execstack and clearing the bit (execstack --clear-execstack /lib/*.so.[0-9] /usr/lib/*.so.[0-9]) works02:31
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vlad_sec, i'll copy over execstack somewhere02:32
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vlad_needs libelfg002:33
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pupnikyou making newer gcc work vlad_ ?02:44
KotCzarnypupnik: it works02:45
pupniki really want to get profiled optimization of dosbox02:45
pupnikcause it's so awful right now02:45
pupnikand it segfaults when i try with gcc 3.x02:46
KotCzarnyanyone know if there's updated version of that page?02:46
pupnikwow nice find KotCzarny02:47
KotCzarnybut missing from maemo.org02:47
KotCzarnyso i assume there should be version that made this one obsolete02:48
pupnikmaybe further howto is restricted to internal02:52
pupniki do not see very much that is outdated02:53
pupnikthe core info and methodology remains the same02:53
KotCzarnybut there may be some new tools02:54
KotCzarnyor existing ones enhanced02:54
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KotCzarnyfrom fanoush mail on some list: I tend to avoid IRC because it is big waste of time.02:56
KotCzarnylike all games02:57
pupnikIrc means a pile of friends hanging out in the top-right corner of my screen03:00
KotCzarnyi have a aterm/screen window with 3 subwindows03:00
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KotCzarny"Building packages with new toolchain would probably need to have libstdc++03:05
KotCzarnylinked statically for C++ applications to work on 770/N800, but otherwise03:05
KotCzarnyeverything should be fine."03:05
pupniki tryded it with a LD-preloaded libstdc++ but it only partially worked, i probably needed to supply other things03:06
KotCzarnyhow about rebuilding all software from sscratch?03:07
KotCzarnythere's debian-maemo project03:07
KotCzarnyjohnx, alive?03:08
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KotCzarnyor uclibc based one03:09
GeneralAntillesAll the whiners on engadget who want cellular in the tablets are stupid. <_<03:10
pupniki'd really like to see the maemo-ish stuff we do make it onto other hardware03:11
pupnikis "mamona" the viable route to do this?03:12
* KotCzarny doesn't know what mamona is03:12
KotCzarnyother than biblical name similiarity03:12
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pupnikmamona is the 'completely open maemo-derived sdk' i guess03:14
pupniki'm just asking n00bishly what path could be available03:14
lcuk2depends what you compile for03:15
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KotCzarny"What!?!  People who are porting/re-making m68k games haven't03:17
KotCzarnyheard of alignment issues?  Where the world is going..."03:17
GeneralAntillesUbuntu Mobile will use Hildon.03:17
GeneralAntilless/will use/uses/03:18
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Ubuntu Mobile uses Hildon.03:18
koyotehonestly, the best i ever saw was pdaxrom for the zaurus clamshells03:18
koyotepeople tend to forget that just 14 years ago, you'd commonly run a full unix with x environment on a 68030 and a 640x480 display. with 512mb of disk.03:19
koyoteat something like 40mhz.03:19
koyotewith 32Mb ram.03:20
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GeneralAntillesYour point, koyote? :P03:21
koyotethe pdaxrom was x based, with a basic unixlike heritage of compiling and selcting your windo managers and special interface tools03:23
koyotemost of the time when i comment on such subjects, i'm told the nokia hasn'[t got enough resources.03:23
koyotewhich is EXACTLY the same thing i've been hearing with handhelds running real OSen since 1992 when i got my first03:24
koyotenot firft handhels, but first with a real os.03:24
lcuk2koyote, i treat my nokia like I would treat an amiga.  i respect the actions its taking, but I know damned well its capable of even more ;)03:24
koyotelcuk2: yah03:25
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lcuk2we even have a dedicated chipset with custom processors available03:25
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* lcuk2 remembers the first time he fired up the blitter03:26
koyoteso my points, GeneralAntilles, are essentially that the whole hildon and maemo thing seems, honestly, to be castrating the computer. And that there's plenty of power in the device. And that a real linux with dev environment onboard would make the most sense.03:26
GeneralAntillesMy N800 can do a helluva lot more than my device from 1996. :P03:27
GeneralAntillesSo, your point is that things are able to do as much as their resources allow? <_<03:28
koyotethat they should be permitted to03:28
lcuk2the hildon window manager isn't bollocks - the basic principle of hacing staticly sized windows and constant desktop elements is needed.  x on its own is mainly geared towards the mousing paradigm where you can put windows anywhere03:28
koyotei'm finding the software side of the n series to be a SERIOUS sticking point for usability03:29
lcuk2i agree with you on that point..03:29
koyoteand i'm not saying hildon is bollocks, either. BUt it's a choice i could make.....03:29
lcuk2but managing a windows like environment doesnt suit this device, you would spend longer trying to put a window somewhere - just look at the desktop applets. managing sizing and moving is a nightmare03:29
koyotewere a regular stock bsd or linux fully supported, i coudl use the touchscreen or a bt keyboard and mouse.03:30
lcuk2we need a proper touch interface however and hildon and its software stack are lacking03:30
koyotelcuk2: oddly, i never had that problem on the zaurus with the pdaxrom03:30
IkkakujyuYay Zaurus.03:30
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lcuk2i have vnc installed on here and whenever i login to my desktop, moving and managing the windows feels wrong03:31
KotCzarnythe less clicks the better03:31
koyotei am typing currently on my *big* computer.03:31
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lcuk2and its not wrong because its sluggish - i use vnc and vmware all the time, its just not right trying to scrape windows03:31
KotCzarnyotherwise it starts to get irritating03:32
koyotean asus eee pc with the SAME resolution as the n800. yet i have no problem with a regular x environment03:32
koyoteand i don't seem to have to spend ANY time manually placing windows03:32
lcuk2thats because you are using a mouse03:32
koyoteof course, i am not using twm03:32
lcuk2its not resolution, its touch vs mouse03:32
koyotelcuk2: touchscreen is same same as a mouse in most ways.03:32
KotCzarnynot exactly03:32
koyotelook at the wesnoth port03:32
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lcuk2koyote, i know its not because i use both methods daily03:33
koyoteKotCzarny: most ways. move pointer, select. hold, drage.03:33
KotCzarnyit's hard to differentiate click and point03:33
lcuk2and i curse at the moused windoing03:33
KotCzarnyand no rmb (righyt mouse button)03:33
koyotei use both methods daily, and i've used touch screens in linux on fujitsu laptops, as well03:33
lcuk2i honestly have no problem letting hildon decide that all windows go here and these go there.  it is like the console in my car03:33
lcuk2everything is static and easy to find03:33
koyoteKotCzarny: that's easy. bind the back key to it or something03:33
KotCzarnyyou tap03:34
KotCzarnyyou generate lmb03:34
lcuk2the experience may change with a large format tablet, but on these devices it feels better03:34
koyotewho here actually has used x with a touch screen environment, like on the pdaxrom builds?03:34
KotCzarnynot the right03:34
KotCzarnyyou click 'back button' you wil lgenerate rmb at current mouse pos03:34
koyoteKotCzarny: um. it's really pretty simple. on normal unices03:34
KotCzarnykoyote: xmodmap will work03:35
koyoteyou bind things, keychords, alternative button usage.03:35
KotCzarnyxmodmap will work03:35
KotCzarnyi have an idea how to do it even03:35
KotCzarnyie. 1 button to turn tap-to-point on/off03:36
koyotelcuk2: completely preference. i would prefer an x environment with something like windowmaker, you like hildon.03:36
KotCzarnyand 1 button to assign tap to lmb or rmb03:36
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koyotebut why can i not just install my prefernce via apt and compile my own kernel and such?03:36
koyotethis is where i'm having major issues.03:36
KotCzarnyyou can03:36
GeneralAntillesInstall Debian.03:36
KotCzarnya least the kernel part03:36
KotCzarnythough not the generic i guess (as long you want closed things)03:37
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koyotehere's where i have been not finding the information i want, then.03:39
koyotestandardish debian on the n800?03:41
KotCzarnyjohnx runs maemo-debian03:42
GeneralAntillesARM EABI Debian03:42
KotCzarnyi guess most things would work03:42
KotCzarnyonly parts that are hardware specific could fail03:42
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koyotedefine maemo-debian03:42
KotCzarnyerm, i meant debian on n8x003:43
KotCzarnydon't know why it stuck in my mind that maemo is IT03:43
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GeneralAntillesIt's Debian.03:43
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ZooVisionHi we are looking to hire a programer to write a widget written for the internet tablets03:45
ZooVisioncan anyone help me?03:46 may be your best bet.03:46
ZooVisionOkay I've looked around there but didn't see a good place to post a message03:47
lcuk2try posting on internettabletforum03:47
GeneralAntillesHe did03:47
GeneralAntillesMaybe try the dev mailing list03:47
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GeneralAntillesNot sure, really.03:47
ZooVisionI've posted a message on the tablet forum03:48
lcuk2zoo, does your company not have local developers?03:48
GeneralAntillesThere was another guy looking for a dev a few months ago03:48
GeneralAntillesNot sure if he ever had any success.03:48
KotCzarnygronmayer is down?03:48
ZooVisionwe do but they are tied up right now and plus don't have the needed experience03:49
lcuk2unfortunatly i am just starting myself.  depending upon the definition of the widget you want, if they have any linux development experience at all they should be able to do it fairly quickly03:50
GeneralAntillesDesktop applets are pretty straightforward.03:51
lcuk2and wasnt someone saying the python bindings are getting simpler03:51
KotCzarnyah. only slow03:51
ZooVisionokay I'll look in that direction linux developers03:51
lcuk2get them a device and let them play for a couple of weeks03:52
lcuk2(in their own time)  you will find out who can do it - let them keep device for doing it at home ;)03:52
ZooVisiongood idea03:53
ZooVisionwe ordered a couple of them today03:53
ZooVisionshould be pretty simple overall03:53
KotCzarnysomething lags03:53
ZooVisionread in an xml feed03:53
ZooVisionlink to the media player03:53
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KotCzarnysounds like regexp fun03:54
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ZooVisionalready have the interface ironed out03:54
KotCzarnywhat's the problem then?03:55
KotCzarnyit doesn't look like it has to be very maemo specific03:55
ZooVisionwell the graphics are ironed out03:56
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KotCzarnycanola2 for linux is coming04:33
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KotCzarnyjott: you got linked:
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pupnik_  maemo os2008 xrandr rotate screen vertical display rotated desktop jott Rodrigo fanoush05:09
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pupnik_ linkspam05:15
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pupnikGoogle partners with NSA, CIA on intelligence database05:17
KotCzarnyapril 1st05:17
pupnik? hmm05:17
pupnikPublished: Monday March 31, 200805:17
KotCzarnyand any other references?05:18
pupnikread it or ignore it05:18
KotCzarnyi believe story like this one would be /. to death05:18
pupnikit's not a very sinister story05:19
KotCzarnyall bad things come in small steps05:19
pupnikthe buzzword for this around 2001-2003 was 'knowledge management' for organizations05:20
KotCzarnyi take back whatever i said bad about canola05:22
KotCzarnyit has browser by folder option, whoo05:22
pupnikoh then i might try it also05:22
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KotCzarnyseemless playback would be nice though05:23
KotCzarnyalso some shortcuts like, 'now playing, options, top'05:24
KotCzarnyscratch that05:25
KotCzarnynow playing is in the corner05:25
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KotCzarnyand holding on 'back' takes to the top in 1 sec05:25
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KotCzarnyreally, really nice05:26
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KotCzarnysorting tracks would be nice though05:28
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KotCzarnyok. i'm in the canola fan base now.05:28
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KotCzarnyhigh quality zoom would be nice too05:35
KotCzarny(for books scanned as jpg)05:35
KotCzarnyalso there should be an option to remember/revert zoom/orientation05:36
KotCzarnytranslucent osk on n80005:39
KotCzarnythat's the thing i wanted :)05:39
KotCzarnyobserve: 1/ you can see part of the background05:39
KotCzarny2/ entered text is also shown in top left corner05:39
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WormFooddoes moon lander not work with the n800? I can't figure out any way to control it05:41
KotCzarnywf: no info in the manual/docs/site?05:41
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Tama^2KotCzarny: from the article you linked: "Now, the plan is to have this as optional keyboard. And of course IT WILL NOT HAVE THIS iPhone look!"05:42
Tama^2of course it will not... it will look much worse! by design..05:42
KotCzarnytama: i don't like the look too05:42
Tama^2what is that you do not like?05:43
KotCzarnybut i wanted an osk that wont fsck other windows05:43
KotCzarnydefault osk just makes me angry05:43
Tama^2me too >.<05:43
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tsukasammm bawls05:45
tsukasai love slurping my cold juicy bawls05:45
Tama^2and of course one cannot write a replacement05:45
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Tama^2I do not know if I have a talent for finding things to do that are verboten but it seems all the things I'd like to work on were classified as not open by Nokia05:47
KotCzarnyno workarounds?05:48
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Tama^2input methods have to fit in the IM plugin system which basically exclude osk05:49
KotCzarnyerm, not really05:49
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Tama^2unless you want to implement one for your application only of course05:49
KotCzarnyxserver allows for remote input05:49
KotCzarnyxvkbd, xkbd05:49
KotCzarnyboth uses it05:49
KotCzarnyand it works05:49
Tama^2yes, but if you ask me the ITOS is already very clumsy when it comes to user interaction05:49
Tama^2if I come up with yet another method that is not triggered by finger pressure or the select button05:50
KotCzarnymy idea is: disable builtin osk, assign hardware key to bring ours up05:50
Tama^2it's useless, really05:50
KotCzarnyno, not another method05:50
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KotCzarnyno hildon specific stuff05:50
KotCzarnystandalone app05:50
KotCzarnythat would work on every xserver05:51
KotCzarnyit simply works05:51
pupnik_ xkbd05:51
KotCzarnypupnik: ?05:51
Tama^2yes, pupnik?05:51
pupnik_without an opengl-based windowing system, there is no solution for translucent vkbd05:51
pupnik_it would eat cpu drawing over an animated sdl game05:52
KotCzarnypupnik: i could bear with xshape enabled one too05:52
KotCzarnyit's like 1bit transparency05:52
KotCzarnyquite fast05:52
KotCzarnywhat am i saying05:53
KotCzarnyi could even bear with a window05:53
KotCzarnythat won't cover whole screen05:53
KotCzarnylike xkbd does right now05:53
KotCzarnyi have an idea05:54
* KotCzarny grins05:54
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Tama^2KotCzarny: going back to our conversation: if you assign the HW key to bringing up the custom osk app, it means other applications do not have access to the same key05:57
KotCzarnytama: yes, there's a price05:59
KotCzarnyanother trick woyld be catching clicks in the corner of the screen05:59
KotCzarnyor just making osk persistent but minimizeable06:00
Tama^2or as an high priority icon in the status bar06:00
Tama^2so it does not disappear..06:01
KotCzarnythat wouldn't work for full screen apps06:01
KotCzarnyie. games06:01
KotCzarnyso always on top in the corner06:01
KotCzarnybtw. xvkbd IS stable06:01
KotCzarnyand doesn't have xkbd problems06:01
KotCzarnyi have to recompile it hinted to be a util window06:02
Tama^2yes but they are all hacks...06:02
KotCzarnytama: i can live with hacks06:02
KotCzarnypeople hack windows too06:02
KotCzarnyiphone too06:02
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KotCzarnybut you know what's sad?06:02
KotCzarnyarchos is not hackable06:02
KotCzarnygoogle for: hacking archos 70406:03
pupnik_you know xkbd will minimize to a tiny icon in the corner of the screen, yes?06:03
Tama^2my point was that I wanted to add functionality not to hack in functionality06:03
KotCzarnypupnik: yes, but xkbd is unstable06:03
pupnik_so lets make it stable06:03
pupnik_(reliable, not-broken, whatever)06:04
KotCzarnypupnik: xvkbd is stable06:04
KotCzarnyand it has similiar features06:04
pupnik_i tried it a while back.  do you have a binary?06:04
KotCzarnytama: you name it 'adding' i name it 'hacking'06:04
KotCzarnyresult is the same, missing funtionality is on the device after that06:04
KotCzarnypupnik: should be somewhere on my site06:05
KotCzarnylet me check06:05
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pupnik_i still have sources from 12-2006 in my scratchbox06:05
pupnik_2.7 and 2.806:06
pupnik_trying buildpackage now06:08
KotCzarnybut as i said it needs to be recompiled and rehinted06:08
KotCzarnyit was one of my first compilations in sb06:09
KotCzarnyi think i have compiled it statically agains libxaw3d06:09
pupnik_rehinted meaning fonts not displaying correctly?06:09
KotCzarnyrehinted meaning not taking whole screen06:10
KotCzarnybecause of matchbox policy06:10
KotCzarnyto resize windows06:10
pupnik_you know more about X than me.  this is good06:10
KotCzarnyi only know what i saw in includes/sources06:11
KotCzarnyand from some tests06:11
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pupnik_would it be easier to fix xkbd missing keys or fix xvkbd to display in a small window on-top?06:11
KotCzarnymaking smaller window is a 1-2 liner06:12
KotCzarnyfixing xkbd is bughunting06:12
KotCzarnyand you know what fun is bughunting06:12
pupnik_building xvkbd complains about missing -lXaw3d06:12
KotCzarnyi have provided xaw3d sources too06:13
KotCzarnyi can put the .a file of it too06:13
pupnik_i don't see makefile in sources for xaw3d06:14
KotCzarnyit doesn't exists in sb06:15
KotCzarnybut i ran it outside sb in that dir06:15
KotCzarnyand it was enough06:15
pupnik_somehow i have xmkmf in scratchbox06:15
KotCzarnyxmkmf is a nightmare of the xfree06:16
KotCzarnywas deprecated with modular x.org06:16
KotCzarnyi guess06:16
pupnik_thanks man06:18
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pupnik_Apr  2  2008 xvkbd_2.8-1_armel.deb06:19
KotCzarnybut it still needs fixing06:20
KotCzarnyor it's already packaged by someone?06:20
pupnik_i don't think so06:20
pupnik_just built it06:20
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pupnik_i really like the full keyboard layout06:25
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pupnik_KotCzarny: how about a loadable kernel module that just draws the alphanumeric glyphs on the framebuffer no matter what X is doing? :)06:36
KotCzarnythat's what lcuk is aiming for06:37
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pupnik_hmm i screwed up the background pic07:02
KotCzarnywhat's that?07:02
KotCzarnyi mean the kb07:02
pupnik_i just drew it07:03
KotCzarnymake outlines wider07:03
pupnik_yeah it's just to show the idea07:03
pupnik_but the resolution is exactly 800 wide, so it would be readable i think07:04
KotCzarnymaybe inverted colors too07:05
pupnik_yes either white/black or black white - preferable provide both schemes07:05
KotCzarnymy google skills fail me07:07
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WorkingOnWisecan i just copy the directory with all my man and info pages from my ubuntu laptop to my tablet? man on the n800 is a bit lean...07:38
KotCzarnybut docpurge probably will remove them anyway07:39
KotCzarny;)07:39 do I stop that? I want the man pages, and I have 3GB free still....07:41
WorkingOnWiseso i have plenty of space...07:41
KotCzarnyinstall them somewhere else than /usr/man07:42
KotCzarnyfor example to /media/mmc2/man07:42
Italodanceautoexec.cfg where is this file?07:42
KotCzarnythen read man page how to setup man for a new folder07:42
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KotCzarnyitalodance: it's a linux07:44
KotCzarnyyou should really learn linux basics07:45
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Italodancejust tell me where can i find autoexec.cfg?07:45
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Italodanceit is on internal memory and not for mmc1/207:51
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WorkingOnWiseafaik linux has no autoexec.cfg.... if there is one you should be able to find more that you want to know about it with a google search07:53
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KotCzarnypupnik: i've done it, whoo!07:54
KotCzarnynow.. the hiding part ;)07:55
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pupnik_very nice07:55
KotCzarnyi have put a binary in the usual place07:56
KotCzarnystart with -geometry -1-107:56
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KotCzarnyDownloaded: 939,339,582 bytes in 2747 files07:56
KotCzarnyO.o07:56 mirrored07:56
KotCzarnynow lets have fun with extras ;)07:57
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Lucas_simaosomeone here works with carman :08:00
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ItalodanceWorkingOnWise OK!08:02
KotCzarnyhmm, xvkbd is fun with osso-xterm08:03
KotCzarnysending enter turn builtin osk on/off08:04
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KaaLiis n810 wimax edition still released..   :D08:58
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ralannit's not midnight everywhere yet09:08
KotCzarnyat nokia hq it is!09:08
ralanni'll still not get the wimax09:08
KaaLii live in the same country..09:08
KaaLi9am it is09:09
KaaLialtho i dont need wimax..   about to get new phone and use 3g..09:09
ralanni have evdo and am looking at one of the docking cradles09:10
KaaLi1mbit costs 19,90 euros per month09:10
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KaaLihow's the pricing elsewhere09:13
ralannno wimax here... yet09:13
KaaLii was talkin about about 3g09:13
KaaLin wimax here either09:14
KotCzarnybad karma.09:14
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dieman_< -- really dumb09:46
dieman_forgot about the internal flash drive issue09:46
dieman_backed up to it and reflashed09:47
dieman_and notice, doh, my backup ain't there09:47
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dieman_my tablet was so crufted out10:13
dieman_after 2 months of plugging everything in and out of it10:14
dieman_for software10:14
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wom-dieman_: whats the "internal flash drive" issue?10:17
dieman_some of the n810's shipped had their fat parition set larger than the physical device10:18
dieman_so if you did a bit of writing to it, at some point you'd have a bad filesystem10:18
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wom-oh, well good to know10:24
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wom-i have been trying to find 8GB mmc card that would come with n+1 kinds of adapaters. so that i can plug-it in even to my gramma's cassette player :P10:26
wom-but no luck from local shops10:26
thux_n800is there mbmon or similar to os2008?10:26
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thux_n800any sensors in chips?10:28
doc|homethere's a sensors app too10:28
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doc|homenot sure of the name though, look on garage.maemo.org10:29
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JaffaMorning, all10:49
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KotCzarnypupnik: ping10:57
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floriangood morning11:02
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X-Fade_Jaffa: Thanks for the blog post ;) Now we just need some people to add their PC applications.11:05
X-Fade_KotCzarny: I add a PC category to the downloads section of
KotCzarnydefine 'pc category'11:06
KotCzarnybecause i see m$ windows11:06
X-Fade_KotCzarny: OS 200611:07
X-Fade_OS 200711:07
X-Fade_OS 200811:07
X-Fade_* 2 applications in Multimedia11:07
X-Fade_Add an application to the catalog.11:07
X-Fade_OS & SDK11:07
X-Fade_OS images to reflash your tablet: N810 - N800 - 770.11:07
KotCzarnyi understand now11:07
X-Fade_maemo SDK for developers: Chinook - Bora - Gregale.11:07
X-Fade_Damn.. sorry guys ;)11:07
X-Fade_Copy-paste gone wrong :(11:08
KotCzarnypc like video converter for m$ win?11:08
X-Fade_Yeah, non-tablet software..11:08
KotCzarnybut useful for IT11:08
KotCzarnylike diablo2 (over vnc)11:08
X-Fade_Uhu ;)11:09
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KotCzarnyok, if anyone needs stable osk here's one:
KotCzarnyhas working 'alt' and rest of the keys11:18
KotCzarnydoesn't barf like xkbd11:18
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AD-N770bon dia / good morning11:20
KotCzarnybon bon11:20
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WormFoodhow in the fuck do I get maemo weather to let me add a station? I get nothing for "Country", and it does not send anything over the internet.11:30
KotCzarnystop saying fuck11:30
WormFoodin the past it just took forever for it to give me a country list, now it gives me nothing11:31
X-Fade_Did you guys notice that there will be an Update All button in the new Application Manager? And also updates notification?11:31
WormFoodit would be nice if I had applications that didn't take an act of god to make work properly11:31
WormFoodI had it working before I reinstalled everything, but now I can't get it to do shit11:32
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WormFoodI'm monitoring my network traffic, and it is not sending anything to get a list of countries online11:32
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WormFoodnobody knows how to make this god damn thing work like it is supposed to?11:36
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WormFoodanyone want to buy a N800...less than 3 months old11:40
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KotCzarnywf: how much?11:41
WormFoodI don't know11:42
WormFoodI have a 4 gig card with it too11:42
KotCzarnyi don't need a sd card11:42
WormFoodI'm just sick of this shit!11:42
KotCzarnyyou can reuse it too11:42
WormFoodI have nothing else that uses SD11:42
WormFoodthe ONLY reason I bought this SD was for the N80011:42
WormFoodmy camera uses CF11:42
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WormFoodthe damn thing won't turn on with the old kernels11:43
KotCzarnywhy should you use old kernels11:43
WormFoodI have problems with the wireless....most of the time it will not get an address from the dhcp server11:43
WormFoodI expect it to work when it is brand new11:43
KotCzarnyit works for me11:43
WormFoodI must use the new kernels if I want to turn it on11:43
KotCzarnyand probably for many, many other people11:43
WormFoodwhen I'm on a 15 hour plane trip, and I have to turn it off for take off, and I can't turn it back on, it gets very frustrating11:44
BlafaselWormFood: What are you trying to archive with your rant about a device in the channel that basically contains only owners/supporters? ;)11:44
WormFoodand that was BEFORE the new kernel11:44
WormFoodI'd be happy if someone told me how to make maemo weather give me a list of countries and locations I can choose from11:45
WormFoodbut even basic simple shit does not work11:45
WormFoodI remember last time it seemed to take forever for it to update that list, but now it does not seem to update at all11:45
janiBlafasel: to prove that we are all morons  perhaps11:45
WormFoodfuck you jani, I never said nor suggested that11:46
X-Fade_WormFood: It probably fetches weather from or another source like that. Perhaps the server is slow/down?11:46
WormFoodX-Fade_, I'm monitoring the network traffic11:46
WormFoodit is not slow or down11:46
janiWormFood: mm .. if your wlan is down how can it update the stations ?  or these 2 cases arent happening at the same time ?11:46
WormFoodI enter a usa zip code and it fetches weather just fine11:46
X-Fade_WormFood: Please be a little more polite.11:46
WormFoodjani, I said it won't fetch an ip address from dhcp most of the time11:46
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WormFoodX-Fade_, jani shouldn't put words in my mouth11:47
WormFoodI know there are some smart people here, and you guys have been helpful in the past11:47
X-Fade_WormFood: Count to 10 before reacting ;) Makes life a lot more pleasant for everybody.11:48
WormFoodI'm just not in the mood to fight with this shit when it should be simple and straight forward11:48
WormFoodoh yeah, and when I give it my zip code, it still does not work....real nice!11:49
WormFoodno doubt it wants something other than my zipcode11:49
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BlafaselHuh? You claim confusing things. Most of the time you get no IP address via dhcp. Is this one of these cases? It works with a USA zip? It doesn't with your zip (whereever you are) though?11:53
WormFoodBlafasel, you're not paying attention...I said the network does not work as it should as MOST of time it will not fetch an IP from the DHCP server11:54
WormFoodobviously that is not my problem now11:54
BlafaselYou are currently only ranting about "shit", adding a "fuck" or "damn" randomly. Describe your problem a little less confusing and less emotional and someone might be able to help.11:54
BlafaselWormFood: Obviously nothing is obvious right now.11:54
KotCzarnyeven that obviousliness isn't obvious11:54
Cptn-N800Lol green people11:55
WormFoodI'm not in usa, so as expected, it does not recognize my zip code11:55
KotCzarnycore dump! core dump!11:55
WormFoodI manually add a station and give it a usa zip code, and that works fine11:55
WormFoodit WAS working 1-2 months ago11:55
BlafaselI have to ask the default support question: What did you change?11:56
WormFoodnow I have reinstalled my entire system to update to the newest OS2008, because I was unlucky enough to have one of the shit N800s that won't turn on11:56
Cptn-N800Maybe if you were nicer to it and used less swear words it would turn on11:57
WormFoodmaybe if I grind it under the heel of my boot it will turn on11:57
wom-well, whatever turns it on :)11:58
Cptn-N800Yeah do that... Then youll have no tablet and it could go back to sivilized chat in here11:58
WormFoodthat was the ONLY reason I upgraded it to the newest OS200811:58
KotCzarnywormfood: just sell it and buy iphone11:59
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BlafaselSo - which version of omweather are you talking about anyway?11:59
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WormFoodI really had no desire to update to the newest OS2008 and reinstall everything....the only reason I did that is to fix the problem that was supposed to fix11:59
Blafasel0.19.6 I presume?11:59
KotCzarnyn8x0 is more for people who like to hack it11:59
WormFoodwhatever is the newest that downloads from the installer11:59
WormFoodI love to hack stuff, but I did not buy this to hack11:59
Cptn-N800Or for people who dont go hulk when something doesnt work11:59
WormFoodI bought this for one reason, and one reason make sip phone calls over the internet on it12:00
WormFoodand I'm really pissed about that, because it works beautifully on my home network, but when I'm on the other side of the planet I can't do ANYTHING to get sip working (and yes I forwarded all the proper ports)12:00
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Cptn-N800Go home and call from there then12:01
WormFoodthis is some bullshit! I uninstall omweather, and reinstall it, and it says I need to I reboot, and now all the countries are there12:01
Cptn-N800Does pidgin have ignore user for irc?12:02
WormFoodit never said I need to reboot after I installed omweather the first time12:02
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BlafaselGive me a sec. I'm just installing the (useless?) omweather stuff.12:02
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jaskathat it needs to reboot is slightly wtf in itself12:02
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WormFoodCptn-N800, it is a normal feature of irc, try /ignore12:02
jaskai think freenode might even have serverside ignore12:03
WormFoodyeah, I was thinking the same thing too...why the hell would a weather app need to reboot the this windows?12:03
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WormFoodBlafasel, when it worked it was great, I really liked it a lot and used it all the time (not that I really trust weather reports, but my girl liked it)12:04
Cptn-N800I have the most leet weather system ever12:04
Cptn-N800A window :)12:04
wom-thats pretty high tech :)12:05
KotCzarnyit doesn't support temp. reading12:05
wom-real time updates etc.12:05
WormFoodI remember the weather rock12:05
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WormFoodwhen it is wet, it is raining12:05
Cptn-N800Real time update, better accuracy, amimated preview12:05
WormFoodthrow the weather rock, and it is animated then ;)12:05
KotCzarnyi disagree12:06
WormFoodbut one of the things I like about the weather app (that I don't get with a window), is I plug in my home zip to see the weather there12:07
KotCzarnywormfood, for a start try pinging that site from device12:07
WormFoodI find it interesting that many times my home area has very similar weather to me on the other side of the planet12:07
WormFoodKotCzarny, I know I can hit the site just fine because it updates the weather when I manually give it my home (usa) zip12:08
KotCzarnythen check if they support anything else than usa12:08
WormFoodthis is it lets me select the country, but it won't select the province12:08
WormFoodKotCzarny, I know for a fact it supported my country in the past....I was using it last month12:08
KotCzarnysoftware changes12:09
WormFooddid they change something to cause my problems?12:09
KotCzarnydo they have client for windows/linux too?12:09
WormFoodnot sure, I never use it on my laptop12:10
KotCzarnythen check12:10
KotCzarnyif it works on the laptop you can try finding out if there were any changes lately12:10
KotCzarnyin their software12:10
TobotrasN810 wimax edition. No N800 :(12:11
WormFoodand it won't let me select "中国" as my country ;)12:11
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WormFoodactually it does let me select "中国", but under its western name12:12
WormFooddid I overlook it, or is there no "reboot" option from the GUI? ("init 6" works tho)12:14
Jitentry pushing the power button?12:14
KotCzarnyit's hidden12:14
WormFoodthe power button only lets you turn it off12:15
WormFoodI mean, in addition to other things12:15
WormFoodKotCzarny, are you serious, or just joking?12:15
KotCzarnyyou can enable that option in power menu12:15
KotCzarnyjust google for it12:15
KotCzarnyit's a simple uncomment in one of the config files12:15
KotCzarnyif you're lazy just kill some system process12:16
WormFoodnot very user friendly for the non-geek12:16
KotCzarnynon-geek shouldn't reboot it on a whim12:16
Jitenwould a non-geek be obsessed about finding restart when there is shutdown?12:16
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WormFoodtrue Jiten, the non-geek wouldn't question the lack of a reboot12:18
WormFoodKotCzarny, it isn't a whim, when apps require a reboot12:18
* WormFood sighs12:18
WormFoodthis is linux...why would anything require a reboot other than a hardware or kernel change?12:19
Cptn-N800Just turn it off and on again12:19
KotCzarnyit's maemo12:19
Cptn-N800or do i need to call the it crowd to tell you that? :D12:19
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LynoureWormFood: sometimes mystical memory problems are most efficiently taken care of a reboot, at least.12:19
Jitenit's still possible to make a package with some initialization scripts that only get run on boot but ... that sounds a bit weird.12:20
WormFoodseriously, the only time I reboot linux (on my desktop/server) is for a kernel parameter that can only be changed at boottime, a kernel change, or a hardware change.12:20
WormFoodeven on a server/desktop, when something wants to run a boottime, I just manually run it12:21
Cptn-N800Reboot on maemo fixes shit. Thats life :p12:21
Jitenon desktop I tend to find and run them manually but on n800 it's much easier to just reboot.12:21
WormFoodI can't imagine why omweather would want a reboot (or I can't imagine any legit reason)12:21
WormFoodand it won't let me select a province for my country...I suspect that field is only for canada or something12:22
Cptn-N800Make a bookmark to an online weather site12:22
janiWormFood: btw, when you arent getting that ip from dhcp, is not normal wlan or wimax ?12:23
WormFoodanyways, it is almost 5:30, and I need to do some work before 6pm12:23
KotCzarnyfrom maemo:12:23
KotCzarnyYou can also edit /etc/systemui/systemui.xml and uncomment reboot item so it in not inside <!-- -->.12:23
KotCzarnyAfter one reboot you have 'reboot' item in power key menu. But true that this can't 'reboot your tablet without using the tablet power buttton'.12:23
WormFoodjani, it is a normal wlan12:23
WormFoodthanks KotCzarny, that was the file I was looking for I couldn't find on google12:24
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WormFoodjani, I was here not long ago, and we (me and other guys) were trying to figure out the root of the dhcp problem12:24
WormFoodI think it happens most of the time with weak signal APs, but it was happening to me with a strong signal, but I can't reproduce the problem now12:25
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crashanddieI know this is a long shot, but none of you ever had to work with tcpstream (cc++)13:29
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hullfandanHello all. Could someone recommend a good tutorial for writing makefiles? I am started to get confused with what cflags/libs I need to add to the makefile to me able to import certain libraries.13:35
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Tobotrashullfandan: this is not a "tutorial for writing makefiles", this is "user's guide of certain library".13:52
Tobotrashullfandan: if you're using GNOME infrastructure, correct make options are fetched from pkg-config. If not, deal with each library individually13:53
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hullfandanI am very new to makefiles so I just wanted a general tutorial so I understand the fundamentals13:57
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hullfandanI see what you mean about libraries though. I managed to add sdl calls as my app is hopefully going to be a full screen game13:58
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hullfandanTobotras: Thanks, I will look into pkg-config, I've not used that yet I don't think. I have just been manually adding libs/cflags soo far13:59
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Tobotras pkg-config --libs glib-2.014:00
Tobotrashullfandan: that's your linking flag14:00
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hullfandanoh yeah :)14:01
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hullfandanI then add things like sdl-config14:01
Tobotrasno, you add things line pkg-config sdl :)14:02
hullfandanLIBS = `pkg-config glib-2.0 --libs` `sdl-config --libs` -lSDL14:02
TobotrasIf SDL comes with sdl<something>.pc file14:02
hullfandanseems to work14:02
hullfandanmore through trial and error though probably :D14:02
hullfandanstarting to get confused now i am adding osso and other libs, etc14:03
Tobotrashullfandan: you directly typed "-lSDL", why do you need '*config'? :)14:03
hullfandanpass :)14:04
Tobotrashullfandan: pkg-config --libs libosso14:04
hullfandanso I would add that like this 'pkg-config --libs libosso' after the other libs.14:05
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hullfandanThe reason i asked about tutorial is that I have seen makefiles where they use $(name of library) as a variable14:06
hullfandanI wanted to do soemthing like that to keep things tidier too14:06
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hullfandanTobotras:  So where so I find that libosso is the way to add the osso library? I can;t see it in the doxygene docs for osso so where do I find this information for new libraries?14:10
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msh_anyone know how to "stop matchbox with dsmetool" as referred to at  ??14:29
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zuhmsh_: 'source /etc/osso-af-init/ stop' for example14:34
msh_aah, I was running it as root.14:34
msh_thanks :)14:34
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Jaffa looks quite cool. Anyone played with Mozilla's fennenc build?14:38
janihullfandan: i dont understand your question =)14:42
X-FadeJaffa: I was just installing it to test ;)14:45
X-Fade10.3MB download though..14:45
JaffaOuch. Won't be doing that over 3G14:46
X-FadeI'll let you know how it works/feels.14:46
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X-FadeInstaller is pegged at 100%cpu for 3 minutes already and the progress bar is at 10% :)14:47
JaffaAh, I now have wifi at work :-)14:47
JaffaI'll let you play first ;-)14:47
X-FadeHmm it creates 2 icons. Minefield and Fennec14:49
X-FadeFirst startup is about 30 seconds ;)14:50
JaffaI was intrigued by the comment on the design doc which said double-tap was zoom. Would be cool to see if that's Mobile Safari like14:50
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X-FadeHmm it doesn't scroll visually. It only updates the image when you let go of the screen.14:52
JaffaThat sounds entirely useless :)14:52
X-FadeNah, it is not that bad. It scrolls the amount you have moved your stylus.14:53
X-FadeBut it is not 'live'.14:53
X-FadeAh, it is just that it is eating too much cpu.14:53
X-FadeIt has kinetic scrolling :)14:54
X-FadeWhich is seriously cpu-intensive..14:54
* Jaffa wonders if iPhone-like fudging (render as blocky image and scroll that, then crisp up the display) would be effective14:54
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X-FadeIt doesn't seem to zoom on double-click yet.14:55
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X-FadeIt doesn't seem to do zooming at all yet.14:56
X-FadeOne thing to notice about Fennec is that it doesn't have any scrollbars.14:58
X-FadeAh! It does do zooming, you just need to slow double click.. like 1 sec apart.15:00
X-FadeSweet ;)15:00
X-FadeAnd kinetic scrolling on is doable, on it is just too heavy.15:01
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JaffaThe UI spec claimed they'd appear only during dragging. What that means for positional indicators when you're not dragging, I'm not sure.15:05
JaffaX-Fade: is it an HTML block-element zoom?15:05
X-FadeJaffa: Yeah, I can double click on columns and they zoom to full screen..15:06
X-FadeBut the scrolling doesn't show the translucent scrollbars.15:06
JaffaSo allits "it's so fast, oooh" comments were - to be frank - a pile of crap. Doesn't matter how fast your JS engine is if the UI is as slow as treacle ;-)15:06
X-FadeYeah, it has some nice features. But rendering seems very slow..15:07
X-FadeMicrob is 10 times faster in rendering it seems.15:07
X-FadeWhich is pretty weird.15:07
* Jaffa is installing it now15:11
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JaffaIt's not *that* slow. Kinetic scrolling is nice15:14
X-FadeJaffa: Well, 2fps perhaps?15:17
X-FadeTry or ;)15:17
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JaffaDouble-tap zooming seems a bit unreliable in detecting the taps15:19
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X-FadeYou need to tap in the exact same position on the screen.15:19
X-FadeYou can also drag all images btw ;)15:20
JaffaAlthough it's slower than microb, I feel a lot more comofrtable using it knowing that a drag isn't going to jitter or randomly select text15:20
JaffaViewing p.m.o on microb is an unfun experience trying to drag-scroll15:20
X-FadeYeah on some divs it messes up..15:20
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X-FadeOh it does that too in fennec..15:21
X-FadeTry to scroll when you click inside a bubble..15:22
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JaffaOh yeah, it's just as crap - if not more so.15:25
JaffaI said the bubbles were a bad idea ;-)15:25
X-FadeHmm no, it seems that it is a redraw problem..15:25
X-FadeRedraw costs too much cpu and so it looks messed up. But if you wait 10 secs, it gets better ;)15:25
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JaffaFor a mobile device, p.m.o is a real trial of torture - ironic really15:26
JaffaOh yeah, it's caught up now15:26
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X-FadeJaffa: Don't test it without the cpu applet running ;)15:26
X-FadeSo you can see what the device is doing..15:26
JaffaSSH in and top15:27
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X-FadeJaffa: I think the browser has potential, but I would really like to see what Webkit will do on the device.15:32
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solmumahaX-Fade: tried Midori?15:36
X-Fadesolmumaha: Not yet.15:36
X-FadeJaffa: Minefield that comes with fennec does render faster. So the kinetic scrolling thing is slowing it down.15:37
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X-Fadesolmumaha: Do you know if midori can also run with the webkit that is in extras?15:37
solmumahanope, i tried Bundyos packages15:40
solmumahai guess it doesn't hurt to try15:41
solmumahait worked quite well for such a quick port15:41
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JaffaX-Fade: with Diablo bringing WRT support, we might see a push for S60 compatibility and so a WebKit renderer15:43
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X-FadeJaffa: Well, there seem to be webkit package in extras optimized for the tablet. But why only the libs ;)15:44
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JaffaX-Fade: have you played with the kinetic scrolling in Diablo in libgtkmozembed (and microb)?16:23
X-FadeJaffa: I don't have access to that :(16:24
X-FadeI'm just a community member.16:25
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JaffaX-Fade: shame16:37
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GeneralAntillesBe nice if all the 3rd party browsers didn't totally suck UI-wise.16:49
dark_linkis the n800 unbrickeable?16:52
GeneralAntilles'course not.16:53
GeneralAntillesThat's a statement that you really can't make for any mobile device.16:53
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dark_linkcould I brik my n800 using the flasher? flashing something wrong?16:54
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GeneralAntillesFrom joe-user's perspective, though, (as long as they don't do stupid things) the answer is effectively, yes.16:54
GeneralAntillesWhat flasher are you using?16:54
||cwdark_link: no, you'd have to hose the bootloader to truely brick it16:56
GeneralAntillesWell, assuming you flash with: ./flasher-3.0 -F <FIASCO Image> -f -R16:56
GeneralAntillesand don't pull the cable or knock out the power half-way through, you'll be fine.16:57
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GeneralAntillesThe danger area is only when it's flashing the NOLO bootloader.16:57
GeneralAntillesBut it's very small16:57
GeneralAntillesso the danger window is only a fraction of a second.16:57
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dark_linkso when you update from os2007 to os2008 it flashes a new NOLO bootloader?16:59
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TheFoolanyone try 2008HE for the 770 yet?17:00
GeneralAntillesI like it.17:00
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dark_linkand n800 with a bad bootloader will be unable to flash?17:01
GeneralAntillesJust a bit of an anecdote, I've flasher 4 devices (2 770s, 2 N800s) more than 50 times all together.17:02
GeneralAntillesNever had a single bricking.17:02
GeneralAntilles1 or 2 flashings have failed partway through (while flashing the rootfs, mostly my own fault in both cases), but nothing that a second attempt didn't solve.17:02
GeneralAntillesSo, really, although there's always the possibility of something going wrong, the chance for it is about zero.17:03
dark_linkI can see that flasher has an option to flash NOLO secondary bootloader image, what about the first?17:04
GeneralAntillesNOLO is composed of two parts17:05
GeneralAntillessecondary and 2nd17:05
GeneralAntillesYou just want to flash the whole FIASCO image, though.17:05
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dark_linkI want to tray to flash another kernel, just to try. So if I use only the --kernel option, It could be reflasheable after?17:06
GeneralAntillesYou want to just boot it.17:07
GeneralAntilleshang on one sec17:07
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GeneralAntillesflasher-3.0 -k <zImage> -l -R17:08
GeneralAntillesIs what you want17:08
dark_linkok thanks17:08
dark_linkand I've seen that the n800 omap has some functions like 3D, video rendering, etc. They are not used now, are they?17:09
GeneralAntillesNo drivers.17:10
GeneralAntillesPotentially due to technical issues, definitely due to performance issues.17:10
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dark_linkopengl would be great17:11
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GeneralAntillesbut the LCD controller is limiting.17:12
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GeneralAntillesYou certainly wouldn't be able to run at 800x480 with good performance17:12
GeneralAntilles640x480 is suspect, too.17:12
dark_linkwhy this happens?17:13
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GeneralAntillesWell, the built-in controller (which we're not using) is limited to 640x48017:16
SpakmanI'd like to change the status of my Garage project from Alpha to Beta, but I can't find how to do it! Does anyone know?17:16
GeneralAntillesand the 800x480 3rd party LCD controller isn't a particularly fast one.17:16
dark_linkGeneralAntilles, thanks for sharing all your knowledge17:17
lardmanGeneralAntilles: why not?17:18
lardmanGeneralAntilles: as in why would the powervr not be able to provide reasonable performance at 800x640?17:18
GeneralAntillesBecause it doesn't have enough vram for that?17:18
lardmanMy impression was that we are still just below the lcd controller memory bandwidth17:19
lardmanah, but we don't know how much it has do we?17:19
GeneralAntillesI'm fairly certain the frame on the pvr is limited to 640x48017:19
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lardmanperhaps, I'd be interested to know where the figure came from17:20
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GeneralAntillesWell, partially it's a supposition based on the fact that the built-in controller is limited to 640x480, and partially I remember hearing it from a number of different people.17:21
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lardman says that the one from ARM supports up to QVGA, so I can see your reasoning that the Ti one would support the same as the OMAP on-chip fb17:23
lardmanI was just curious if some extra information had come to light17:23
NaviThat's the MBX17:23
lardmanwe also have the mbx17:24
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lardmanI wonder where a size limitation would be imposed? The powervr mbx is supposed to use internal memory for its processing, then presumably writes to the framebuffer17:25
lardmanI can see that it might be designed for X number of objects with such and such a texture res, etc., but not necessarily an actual output res limit17:25
lardmanor am I going off in the wrong direction here?17:26
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NaviQVGA is only 320x240 anyways :/17:26
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GeneralAntillesThe *VGA designations are irritating.17:28
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pupnik  i'm hoping that we get a windowing system that uses opengl natively, so transparent windows are hardware accelerated17:30
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GeneralAntillesWhat's wrong with the hardware keyboard?17:30
GeneralAntillesOmniWeb is gonna die horribly if they don't fix the focus bug at some point.17:31
pupniki prefer hardware keyboards17:31
pupnikbut people who want an onscreen keyboard don't have great choices for non-hildon apps17:31
GeneralAntillesAssuming no future maemo device lacks a hardware keyboard, why do we need the transparent thumbboard? :P17:31
pupnikyou think this is a safe assumption?  i'd love that17:31
Navi'cuz I don't like sliding out the keyboard all the time17:31
* Jaffa imagines they all will now17:32
JaffaUnless h/w space gets really cramped17:32
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I'd rather not have a slider17:32
* Navi is the minority17:32
GeneralAntillesbut I don't see them taking out the hardware keyboard.17:32
GeneralAntillesI dunno, maybe if they diversify some.17:32
* Jaffa is itching for confirmation closer to the N810 WME release of it being step 4. Then we're probably < 12 months away from step 5 :-)17:32
NaviI don't want another N800 rehash.17:32
GeneralAntillesa 3.5" model would probably have some issues fitting a keyboard.17:33
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, there's no way it's not step 4.17:33
jeddy3what is this about 5 steps? ...of what?17:33
NaviNokia's five step progam to kicking a habit17:33
pupniki was just typing that17:33
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GeneralAntilles5 steps to breaking us of our tablet addiction as they dumb them down more and more for the masses? :P17:34
TPCwhat is step 5 supposed to bring that we don't already have?17:34
GeneralAntillesUh, OMAP3?17:34
JaffaGeneralAntilles: true, it not being step 4 would be a *real* surprise.17:34
JaffaA wondrous new UI which is perfect (allegedly)17:34
pupnikwhat I fear is that the resolution advantage will disappear and maemo will dry up versus the winCE hordes17:34
jeddy3ah, 5 OMAP3-devices, then next generation?17:34
JaffaIt may be being over-hyped a little ;-)17:35
GeneralAntillesAlso, a lot of comments Texrat has made indicates that step 5 is coming sooner than later.17:35
GeneralAntilleslol, jeddy3?17:35
jeddy3GeneralAntilles, yes? :)17:35
Navijeddy3, step five is the most market-usable17:35
pupniki hope that means they get pushed into all the cell-phone stores17:36
jeddy3GeneralAntilles, forgive me for being ignorant17:36
GeneralAntillesStep 1: 770, Step 2: N800, Step 3: N810, Step 4: N810WE, Step 5: Presumably N900 with OMAP317:36
jeddy3Navi, THANKS!17:36
TPCso pretty much just better graphics performance?17:36
NaviThey should go with xscale :D17:36
GeneralAntillesBetter all around performance.17:36
TPCnothing I care about then, I would be happy with a N800 with a cli interface only :P17:36
GeneralAntilles~600MHz versus 400MHz17:36
pupnikI think their plan is not so much hardware stages but product maturity stages17:36
NaviTPC, well, there's also the ability to play H.26417:37
TPCthats nice I suppose17:37
Naviand 720p without scaling down17:37
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GeneralAntillesTPC, why didn't you just buy yourself a used Zaurus, then?17:37
JaffaYes, step 5 is the end-consumer big-marketing-push type device, i.e. what Apple think they have with the iPhone17:37
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pi_ga help17:37
Naviat least, if they use the 344017:37
TPCGeneralAntilles, because I already have a N800, which works fine17:37
pupnikis it conceivable that n900 would have tv-out (analog, hdmi whatever)17:38
GeneralAntillesIt's certainly not out of the question17:38
Navipupnik, the OMAP chips support it17:38
pupniki think the soc supports it17:38
Navinokia just needs to implement it17:38
GeneralAntilles4-wire 3.5mm jack, anyone? :P17:38
TPCI hope they bring back SD cards, I would own a 810 right now (to get the keyboard) if it wasn't for the fact that it doesn't take them17:38
GeneralAntillesTPC, they wont.17:38
jeddy3pupnik, or via their "nobounds?17:38
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TPCI own tons of SD cards already, don't want to spend alot of money bying minisd/microsd17:38
Navijeddy3, no, not nobounds17:39
Navireal t-out17:39
infobotNavi meant: real tv-out17:39
pupnikbeing able to show friends movies/video on a tv or computer monitor would be nice17:39
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I think my poll only managed to confuse things. :P17:39
GeneralAntillesWe shoulda stuck with N810WM. :\17:39
GeneralAntilleserm, N810WE17:40
Navipupnik, especially if it's the OMAP344017:40
Navi720p output :P17:40
GeneralAntillesI don't think it could handle that, Navi.17:40
NaviGeneralAntilles, sure it can!17:40
* Navi believes17:40
GeneralAntillesAt least, looking at the OMAP3430/40 spec sheet, anyway.17:40
pupnikThey have hardware decoders for some hi-res video formats17:41
pupnikthe TI literature advertises 720p decoding17:41
GeneralAntillesDecoding wouldn't be an issue17:41
GeneralAntillesbut getting it to a TV17:41
GeneralAntillesThere's either the s-vide/composite output17:41
GeneralAntillesor using the second 640x480 display for VGA or something.17:41
pupnikthere's no micro standard for hdmi?17:41
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hrwTPC: SD cards are huge17:42
Cptnodegardim in love with my new toy:
GeneralAntillesYou need adv-backlight, Cptnodegard.17:43
Navipupnik, there are mini connectors for the HDMI spec17:43
* GeneralAntilles sighs.17:43
Navi10cm x 2.5cm or so17:44
GeneralAntillesMini my ass!17:44
Navi10mm x 2.5mm17:44
BlafaselCptnodegard: Nice one17:46
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Cptnodegard[16:42] <GeneralAntilles> You need adv-backlight, Cptnodegard. <- why?17:50
GeneralAntillesSave statusbar space.17:50
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Cptnodegardwhere does adv backlight put itself?17:51
Cptnodegardthen whats the point? o017:52
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GeneralAntillesrm_you, did you get Extras access yet?17:53
rm_youGeneralAntilles: not to my knowledge >_>17:53
rm_youno one has emailed me about it17:53
GeneralAntillesBug X-Fade or something. :P17:53
rm_youi wish my n800 worked so i could actually work on that more <_<17:54
Italodanceonly Skype-to-Skype is possible?17:54
rm_youItalodance: you can call landlines / mobile phones via n800 Skype, if you buy minutes17:54
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Italodancerm_you cool! but how many time it needs?17:55
rm_youItalodance: you just pay by the minute, I think... I don't do it myself, as I have a seperate cellphone17:56
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Italodancerm_you hehe yes i have othwer nokia cellphone too,,,,just wanted to try and test it!17:56
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Italodancerm_you so skpe is not free for call to the cellphones????17:58
hrwnever was17:58
Italodanceok! such a bad feel!17:59
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Cptnodegardinstalled, thx GeneralAntilles17:59
rm_youSkype is the same on n800 as it is on PC17:59
GeneralAntillesJust pluggin' the wares.17:59
GeneralAntillesBut, seriously, Extras!18:00
rm_youi know18:00
Italodancerm_you yeah i got it18:00
rm_youyou're a dev on the project technically... You work on it :P18:00
GeneralAntillesTalk to X-Fade18:00
GeneralAntillesHe's the man with the plan these days.18:00
GeneralAntillesI can't package anything over here. :P18:00
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GeneralAntillesUnless you want to buy me a new rig.18:01
GeneralAntillesThen I'd be happy to do it for you.18:01
Italodancerm_you is there any tool that can call to the phones?18:01
Italodanceyes free app18:01
BlafaselDon't use skype. It's not open, it uses tons of bandwith and sucks in general.18:01
rm_youThere was a thing involving Gizmo Project and GrandCentral18:01
rm_youi don't know if it still works18:01
JaffaGeneralAntilles: N810W, N810WE or N810WME are fine with me. Nokia's URLs seem to use N810 WME - which thoughtfix also noticed and is using - so might be the best bet.18:02
rm_youI was using it for a while18:02
GeneralAntillesTexrat is saying that they use N810W internally.18:02
Italodancerm_you tnx so i should install Gizmo!18:02
GeneralAntillesor that "some" have, anyway.18:02
rm_youItalodance: it isn't that simple... there's a post about it somewhere on the forums...18:02
rm_youGeneralAntilles: is that to do with the WIMAX tablet?18:02
rm_youI've been away for a week or two again, I miss all this stuff that happens! :P18:03
GeneralAntillesDiablo gets official, too.18:03
GeneralAntilles"Q2 2008"18:03
GeneralAntillesWhich you should probably interpret as June 30th.18:04
DavieyGeneralAntilles: you expect it to be on time?!18:04
Italodancerm_you !18:05
Italodancebut not easy!18:06
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rm_youyeah, it's kind of annoying to set up and use18:06
rm_youbut it works18:06
ItalodanceCONFUSED :S18:07
GeneralAntillesThen drop $10 for a few hundred Gizmo minutes.18:07
ItalodanceGeneralAntilles LOL18:07
BlafaselWhy "lol"?18:07
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Italodancethat's expensive18:11
GeneralAntillesA lot cheaper than a landline or cellphone.18:11
hrwItalodance: that method works only if you live in US18:11
Italodancehrw oh what a pity!18:12
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hrwItalodance: I am used to that18:15
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hrwmany of 'nice deals' means 'US only'18:16
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Italodancehrw which skype?18:17
Blafasel10$ is expensive?18:18
hrw02 17:11 < Italodance> rm_you
hrwthat trick I mean18:18
BlafaselWhat? That's about 6 Euro..18:18
BlafaselYou get two BigMacs for that.18:18
hrwBlafasel: if not more even18:19
GeneralAntilles3 Euro for a BigMac?18:20
GeneralAntillesThat's nuts!18:20
BlafaselGeneralAntilles: Well, how much in $?18:20
BlafaselThat's nuts, right..18:20
hrwI do not remember when last time I was in McD18:20
GeneralAntillesLike, $1.2918:20
GeneralAntillesFor just the burger18:20
GeneralAntillesMeal is, like, $518:20
BlafaselNice.. You pay 1 Eur for a cheeseburger alone18:21
GeneralAntillesI only ever go to McDonalds for breakfast, though.18:21
||cwbigmac isn't just a cheeseburger though18:21
Blafasel||cw: Oh really? ;)18:22
||cw2 patties, 3 slice bread, lettuce, 2 cheese18:22
GeneralAntillesChick-fil-A is better for lunch.18:22
||cwI'd rather have a jumbo jack though18:22
||cwfor fast food burger that is18:23
GeneralAntillesJack in the Box grosses me out.18:23
GeneralAntillesCheckers is good.18:23
||cwGeneralAntilles: at least their bugers don't sit in a drawer for an hour already cooked18:23
||cwmcd is icky18:24
GeneralAntillesNo kidding? ;P18:24
hrwI will not discuss about quality of mcd food18:24
GeneralAntillesI had In-N-Out Burger when I was out in California.18:24
hrwI avoid it18:24
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GeneralAntillesQuite good.18:25
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rm_yoummm Chik-fil-a18:27
GeneralAntillesNuggets and a lemonade18:28
GeneralAntillesI love their fries.18:28
hrwhmm... when last time I was in fastfood...18:28
hrwburger king in december on Liverpool Station in London18:28
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morbecsomeone knows what is the  password of the default user on the device?18:29
rm_youyay, time to write a paper on "what I consider to be the principal 3 or 4 factors affecting the application of iron technology to ancient greek/roman metallurgy" >_<18:30
rm_youmorbec: i don't think it has a password18:30
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rm_youmorbec: it's like... "locked"18:30
GeneralAntillesuser has no password by default18:30
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rm_youif you want to log in via SSH, you need to log in as root, because "user" doesn't have a password, and i think trying to add one would break things18:31
GeneralAntillesHumanities course? You should address their acceptance of gay men. :P18:31
rm_youAncient Science and Technology <_18:31
rm_youtime to read about 50 pages of *crap* about ancient attempts to make steel18:32
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GeneralAntillesAt least it's only 50.18:32
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||cwrm_you: in OS2006 I know adding a password to user doens't break anything18:37
||cwon a 77018:37
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derfrm_you: You can always just add another user with the same uid as "user", and give them a password.18:46
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Cptnodegardthats genius18:55
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lardmanhmm, long minute18:59
lardmanand my irc client's history is very short18:59
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eleftheriosis this the right place to ask questions about Nokia N810?19:01
BlafaselCptnodegard: Interesting19:01
lardmaneleftherios: yes19:01
Cptnodegardthis thing really pwns... nned to allow for bigger screens though19:01
BlafaselDoes it really work?19:01
Cptnodegardyes it works19:01
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BlafaselCptnodegard: Using a N800 or N810?19:01
Cptnodegardall you need is the hid file sent to your phone (since then it saves it where it belongs automatically)19:02
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eleftheriosIs there a (usb?) GSM module that supports voice so that I could hook it to an N810 and make calls from it too? (Not talking about VoIP). If there is such hardware, I'm sure drivers could be written. Thoughts?19:02
Cptnodegarduse phonlink to pair it with your phone instead19:03
Cptnodegardthen you can text/call with the n810 through your phone19:03
GeneralAntilleseleftherios, what's the point?19:03
GeneralAntillesThat's what phonelink is for.19:03
* GeneralAntilles learns to read19:03
eleftheriosI don't want to have a phone too19:04
GeneralAntillesListen to what Cptnodegard is saying, damnit!19:04
GeneralAntillesa USB GSM modem is gonna be incredibly clunky with the N810.19:04
GeneralAntillesGotta have the stand open19:04
Cptnodegarda good phone is very useful with an IT19:04
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Cptnodegardboth for internet connection, camera, call/sms, and now apparently remote contorlling canola19:04
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Cptnodegard[18:04] <GeneralAntilles> a USB GSM modem is gonna be incredibly clunky with the N810. <- not to mentio you'd eithe rhave to remove the stand or have it open because of th elocation of the usb19:05
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GeneralAntillesLike I said. :D19:06
eleftheriosOk, these thoughts are welcome but the questions remains. One could take a GSM modem that supports voice, write a driver, connect it to a N810 and make calls, right?19:06
* GeneralAntilles invites Cptnodegard into the Lern2Reed club. :P19:06
GeneralAntillesBut I fail to see the point.19:06
rm_youeleftherios: you'd probably need to write the calling program too... :/19:06
Cptnodegardlol just saw it19:06
GeneralAntillesA $50 Bluetooth phone that supports the correct profiles would be much more useful.19:07
eleftheriosrm_you: yes19:07
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: And have it's own battery!19:07
Cptnodegardget a tiny bt phone, put it in a plastic bag and eat it19:07
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GeneralAntillesNow's your chance, rm_you!19:07
GeneralAntillesrofl, Cptnodegard.19:08
eleftheriosGeneralAntilles: sometimes the world is going forward because there are people who see it in a much different way than the rest 99.9999% do19:08
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GeneralAntillesThis is not one of those "sometimes". ;)19:08
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rm_youpfft, that would be a waste of my time... the n800 is *not* a phone, and I may as well just carry a phone as a gsm module the size of a phone that is harder to use19:08
eleftheriosBut please allow me to entairtain the thought :-)19:09
rm_youwhen they actually put a gsm module IN it, then i'll be happy to use it as a phone :P19:09
rm_youeleftherios: we see your point... we just refute it :P19:09
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eleftheriosmy point was whether pairing N810 with an external GSM module that supports voice would work.19:10
eleftheriosIt probably will. Thank you very much. :-)19:10
rm_youit would... and I have one right now... it's called a motorola v360 :P19:10
rm_youit just happens to already be a phone :P19:10
eleftheriosNice, enjoy it.19:10
Cptnodegardnow, next point on the agenda: usb humping dog compatability19:11
rm_youactually, if you really want to do that, it would probably be cheaper and easier just to buy a phone and take the screen/keypad off19:11
rm_youthen you'd have a BT GSM module, essentially19:11
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Cptnodegardseriousely, i want a usb humping dog to hump when i get mail19:13
GeneralAntillesDoes the humping dog run Linux?19:13
eleftheriosrm_you: or something like this
Cptnodegardrun linux or run on linux? it just runs on the power form the usb port i guess, and it was a joke19:14
rm_youeleftherios: yes... but that costs about 5x as much as a cheap BT phone :P19:14
* GeneralAntilles was working on getting Linux on a dead raccoon a few weeks ago.19:14
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Cptnodegardhow about training a squirrel to carry the BT phone for you?19:18
Cptnodegardor buy a e9019:19
GeneralAntillesOr a humping dog.19:19
GeneralAntillesWhat about one of those monkeys that helps quadriplegics? He could hold the phone up to your ear so you don't even need an N810!19:20
Cptnodegardoperate a tiny battery and usb port into the butt of the squirrel, make the on/off button buttcrack-controlled, plug in a usb huping dog, and train the squirrel to carry the phone and squeesh when the phone is ringing19:20
GeneralAntillesBe like Dr. Mephesto and give him 3 asses so you can have 3 lines!19:21
Cptnodegardso he can talk to himself and his wife while his squirrel is being humped to death by plastic minidogs19:22
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GeneralAntillesFor anybody not familiar:
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IkkakujyuDoes it have Linux drivers?19:35
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Cptnodegardwould think it only uses the power19:37
Cptnodegardbut theres a popup on that guys screen19:37
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GeneralAntillesXP is stupid19:38
GeneralAntillesIt's just power.19:38
Cptnodegardmaybe its that ms office paper clip... "excuise me, theres a dog humping youw USB port. do you want to: -join? - kill it? - eat it? - search for solutions on the internet?"19:39
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GeneralAntillesIt's a "New Hardware Added" popup.19:41
sp3000so that's what the cool kids call it these days19:42
BlafaselI'm not sure if this crap is something for the cool kids. Or funny.19:44
GeneralAntillesDon't be a stinker.19:44
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Blafasel*shrug* I hate dogs. I didn't even smirk looking at one single annoying lolcat. Not interesting.19:47
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oilinkiGeneralAntilles: hoho, best part of the youtube video is that the usb-connector is blurred :)19:54
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lcuk2is the actual hardware any different for the wimax support?  what say the chances that original 810 has all thats needed (easter egg)20:02
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GeneralAntilleslcuk2, zero.20:05
GeneralAntillesLess than zero20:05
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GeneralAntillesThis is ridiculous.20:27
GeneralAntillesssh works for about 24 hours20:27
GeneralAntillesstops working20:27
GeneralAntillesworks for 24 hours again20:27
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GeneralAntillesWhen do we get version 4.1 for Bugzilla? :\21:17
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: File a bug against bugzilla. That should reach the right person.21:18
X-FadeOr I will ask the guy tomorrow ;)21:18
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GeneralAntillesField, anyway.21:20
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Got any bug for a non-released firmware version already?21:20
GeneralAntillesI wish.21:21
GeneralAntillesI figure some of the bugs we know have been fixed could at least have their targets set correctly.21:21
GeneralAntillesAny idea what Nokia's policy is regarding pre-release firmwares and bug reporting?21:22
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I only get notice on the day it is released, so I really wouldn't know any schedule.21:23
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X-FadeBut the bugs guys does do some 'fixed in this version' bug hunting.21:24
KotCzarnyhmm, chinook main repos mirror is ~3gb21:24
KotCzarnynot bad21:24
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czrKotCzarny :-)21:36
KotCzarnyhi czr21:40
czrhey kot21:41
KotCzarnyanom, miau miau21:41
czrnom nom nom. i has the devicez.21:41
* czr is battling with sbox. once again.21:41
czrI thought I'd never ever had to use it for anything again.21:42
czrproves just how little I know about anything, argh.21:42
KotCzarnysbox works for me21:42
KotCzarnyquite nice21:43
KotCzarnyit's easy to play with new targets21:43
KotCzarnyand not to b0rk old ones in the process :)21:43
czrsbox for pre-EABI vendor-"supported" arm-board. doesn't relate to maemo in any way.21:43 ?21:43
czrhmm? no. has nothing to do with debian either.21:43
KotCzarnyi mean they have sbox toolchains too21:43
KotCzarnyfor misc archs21:44
czrwell, it's not the arch that is the problem.21:44
KotCzarnyok, i'm shutting up21:44
czrit's a problem in my head. can't really get sbox to play nice with me tonight.21:44
KotCzarnybreakfast anyway :)21:44
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czrheh, k, have fun. nom nom.21:44
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rektidewow holy fuck, the Intel Atom chipset uses PowerVR SGX21:56
rektidethat was _unexpected_21:57
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konttoriis Bundyo ever in here?22:39
konttoriHe is the guy behind midori browser port22:39
konttoriI was testing it out today and I must confess that it's really nice browser.22:40
GeneralAntillesNo, don't believe so22:40
GeneralAntillesunless he's in under another nick.22:40
konttoriWhich might be the case22:40
konttoriAlso this news was interesting:
GeneralAntillesYeah, saw that yesterday.22:41
GeneralAntillesI'm interested in seeing an updated MicroB. :D22:41
konttorihowever, fennec is not terribly fast in my opinion22:41
konttoriupdated MicroB is faster that fennec.22:41
GeneralAntillesSo I'd figure.22:41
KotCzarnyhow faster?22:42
konttoriBoth in rendering the page and in scrolling the page22:42
konttorididn't measure. ... maybe 30% in rendering.22:42
KotCzarnyhow does it realte to fx3 ?22:42
GeneralAntillesI can only imagine MicroB in Diablo will scream.22:42
konttoriscrolling is very smooth on microb22:42
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konttorianyway, fennec might turn out to be really good after they have had a bit of time to work on it.22:43
* lcuk2 perks up22:43
konttorithat blog announcement is from their first iteration, so it'll improve22:43
KotCzarnylcuk: rotated already?22:43
GeneralAntillesWhat's this about libgtkmozembed and kinetic scrolling I hear? ;)22:44
lcuk2i didnt after you collapsed my hopes of a trouble free install22:44
KotCzarnyi encouraged you to test22:44
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KotCzarnyit would help me to determine if it's mine setup or a bug in patches22:44
pupniklurry eyes..22:44
lcuk2i might have some time tonight to advance things, i was a bit lazy tired yesterday22:44
* GeneralAntilles gives lcuk2 an adrenaline shot to the heart.22:44
GeneralAntillesYou email Quim yet, lcuk2? :P22:45
pupnikKotCzarny: first tester likes xkbd.  has problems on my n810 but i don't use vkbd anyway22:45
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KotCzarnyxkbd or xvkbd ?22:45
fysanew microb?22:46
KotCzarnythose microbs! they're everythere!22:46
lcuk2not yet gen, but then again i might not have to - it does seem pace has quickened recently (ie last couple of days) we have had lots of news and stuff22:46
lcuk2and my heart didnt stop - gtk is sluggish :P22:46
lcuk2(but, maybe things have changed here as well)22:47
KotCzarnyi would like fully vfped os22:47
GeneralAntillesGetting MicroB up to speed will do a lot of good for the platform.22:47
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lcuk2i agree, it should be streamlined and slick22:48
lcuk2its an internet device ffs - the internet lets it down22:48
* lcuk2 crosses his fingers22:48
GeneralAntillesI'm very optimistic for Diablo22:48
GeneralAntillesLooking at the huge leaps in performance that have taken place with Gecko since the last time we had a MicroB update and the changelogs on garage.22:49
GeneralAntillesLeaves me feeling a bit giddy.22:49
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fysawhen is diablo supposed to be released?22:55
GeneralAntillesQ2 200822:55
fysaI've heard that the WiMax N810 has in-place upgrading.22:55
GeneralAntillesDiablo feature22:56
fysabut .. not full-on Diablo, it seems.22:56
GeneralAntillesSeamless Software Updates22:56
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fysaevery time I read one of zerojay's posts I want to fucking puke on my own pants.22:59
KotCzarnyso bad or so good?22:59
GeneralAntillesfysa's got a case of the randoms today.23:02
lcuk2"puke on my own pants" actually results in one result and that site was so awful it made me actually puke on my own tshirt23:02
fysaa little bit, GeneralAntilles.23:02
fysajust general annoyance at his attitude in every post I've seen.23:03
GeneralAntillesWhich is that?23:03
lcuk2fysa, you cant just drop new phrases into the lexicolon without telling us what they mean23:03
KotCzarnywhy not?23:03
KotCzarnyit's irc23:03
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GeneralAntilleszerojay's been around for a while, the 'attitude' is a recent development23:04
GeneralAntillesI can hardly blame him, though.23:04
GeneralAntillesHe's Canadian and heavily involved tablet user23:04
GeneralAntilleshe's had pretty much the worst of all Nokia has to offer. :P23:04
fysaI'm just tired of him shitting all over my favorite threads.  Saying this shouldn't be done/can't be done/not worth trying.23:05
* GeneralAntilles can't say that I've noticed.23:06
KotCzarnyi dislike negative attitudes too23:06
GeneralAntillesI'm tired of all the whiners. :P23:06
KotCzarnyif it's broken, fix it, or shut up23:06
* lcuk2 thinks things CAN be done23:06
fysaback to poking around libgtkmozembed23:06
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GeneralAntillesITT has mostly just become a hellhole filled with idiots and Apple fans. <_<23:09
oobgood morning, Nokia nerds23:09
rm_youGeneralAntilles: apple fans? :P23:09
GeneralAntilless/Apple/iPhone and iTouch/23:09
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: ITT has mostly just become a hellhole filled with idiots and iPhone and iTouch fans. <_<23:09
* rm_you looks at GeneralAntilles 23:09
GeneralAntillesI like their OS23:09
* rm_you looks at GeneralAntilles and his Mac23:09
GeneralAntillesI'm increasingly tired of their mobile stuff.23:10
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GeneralAntillesIn particularly, I'm increasingly tired of the neverend comparison threads.23:10
rm_youi don't think things CAN'T be done..23:10
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lcuk2so GeneralAntilles, what phone have you got?23:10
rm_youi just think certain things "shouldnt" be done23:10
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: In particularly, I'm increasingly tired of the neverending comparison threads.23:10
konttorioh man. numty physics is so cool23:10
GeneralAntillesNeeds to give you a chance to setup the level before dropping the ball.23:10
lcuk2hand drawn physics on 810?23:10
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JaffaKotCzarny: long standing users are getting *very* annoyed at the simple things they /can't/ fix cos Nokia's "precious" UI is closed and wrapped up in a spec-led chastity belt.23:12
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lcuk2konttori, link please if its a physics game for 8x0?23:12
* Jaffa 's been playing with "Phun" on his desktop. My 2 year-old loves it :-)23:13
GeneralAntillesWell put, Jaffa.23:13
GeneralAntilleslcuk2, there's a thread on ITT23:13
GeneralAntillesIt's on garage.23:13
KotCzarnyjaffa: how about alternatives?23:13
lcuk2good, ive seen it for a few devices and have played with numerous examples but not with stylus :)23:13
konttoriwhat's phun?23:13
lcuk2ty for link23:13
JaffaKotCzarny: some of the things you end up replacing almost all of Hildon for, just for a small change to one bit23:14
lcuk2ie keyboard tweaks23:14
KotCzarnyjaffa: not a problem with me23:14
Jaffakonttori: Physics games
KotCzarnyas long things work as i want :)23:14
fysaanyone tried building microb from svn lately?23:14
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JaffaKotCzarny: Yes, and if they don't do what you want? What do you do then?23:14
KotCzarnyjaffa: the whole point of openness is that you can fix/replace things23:15
KotCzarnyif you can't then it's not really open23:15
JaffaKotCzarny: Exactly. But random bits of ITOS aren't open.23:15
KotCzarnyi know23:15
KotCzarnythat's why it's so good sdk is free23:15
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JaffaSo "fix them or shut up" aren't the two only options. There's a third option: keep bitching about the closedness until they're opened or someone says "No, we're keeping these closed for reasons X, Y & Z"23:16
KotCzarnybut it's different bitching when not pursuing 1 and 2 first23:16
fysaI squint at my N800 really hard so it knows I mean business, then it opens up and we have a nice talk.23:16
konttorioh man. phun looks like fun!23:16
lcuk2fysa, your 800 cant really open up without a screwdriver23:17
* lcuk2 looks menacingly at his 810 and the keyboard slideeeeeeeeees23:17
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lcukfinally, bt keyboard kicked in23:17
lcukright, phsics fun23:17
lcuk2tap hold23:18
KotCzarnyyou got.. tapped!23:18
lcuk2i hate tap and hold23:18
JaffaIt's so slow when you know what you want23:19
lcuk2in these kind of environments (like browser or xchat) i would want to double tap to open things23:19
lcuk2browser would work because it takes ages to do action of single click23:19
jottthis numpty is a nice find23:21
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lcuk2ive seen many like it and had something similar in mind :) glad someone beat me to it23:22
pupnikphun is like legos for 200823:22
pupnikwish i were 8 yrs old now23:22
jottlcuk2: i also had something similar in mind :)23:23
*** kosola has joined #maemo23:23 is also a great website :)23:23
lcuk2pupnik, no you don't - at your age (unless you're about 9) you will have more money and more expensive toys23:23
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KotCzarnyleggo my eggo23:24
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fysaCrayon Physics 2 (?) or Deluxe?23:24
derfWhen I was 8, I had a lot more time.23:24
derfWhich was worth a lot of money, and certainly more than any expensive toys.23:24
GeneralAntillesThat video is very exciting . . . you solve all the puzzles exactly the same way. <_<23:25
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KotCzarnyderf: you talk about child labour!23:26
lcuk2derf :) ok you're right.  ok - whos gonna build a maemo compatible time machine23:26
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jobui'm trying to run my n800 os2008 off external mmc and cloning the system.  is "tar: cannot create directory './dev': Input/output error" normal?23:31
KotCzarnyare you using vfat?23:32
KotCzarnydmesg shows any errors?23:32
jobuno other errors, going reboot23:32
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jobunot familiar with reading output from dmesg23:33
lcuk2EXCELLENT - numty is a workable fun touch app :)23:33
KotCzarnyanything saying about badblocks23:33
KotCzarnyor read-only filesystem23:33
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czrmount -owo /23:34
dtahtbotczr: Error: ",remount" is not a valid command.23:35
czrsilly little bot23:35
czrdtahtbot, fsck /proc/self23:35
dtahtbotczr: Error: "fsck" is not a valid command.23:35
jobudoh, there are ext2-fs errors read_inode_bitmap23:35
KotCzarnynow you know23:36
KotCzarnyif fixed, remount and continue23:36
czrget your backups out :-)23:36
KotCzarnythat too23:36
jobuwell it was just created23:37
jobuso no data loss XD23:37
jobuis there an easy way to wipe out a partition?23:38
KotCzarnybut explain 'wipe out'23:38
jobuya, like format quick23:39
KotCzarnyalso, you should do mkfs with badblocks checking on23:39
jobuwhat's the flag on that?23:39
KotCzarny-c ?23:39
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czrit will probably take ages23:39
KotCzarnybut it's worth it23:39
czralthough ext takes ages with pretty much anything23:39
KotCzarnyyou don't want to scream later23:40
jobuwould it be faster mke2fs then run fsck?23:40
KotCzarnywhen you get inode badblocks23:40
czrI made the mistake today of trying to do a 3T ext3 on a system which was doing raid5 background rebuild at the same time -> bad mistake.23:40
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Mouseyi made a laughable mistake23:47
* KotCzarny throws a blade23:47
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* GeneralAntilles laughs at Mousey.23:47
* KotCzarny laughs23:47
Mouseyi made /usr/share a link to /media/mmc2/u00/usr/share23:47
Mouseyand now it won't boot =(23:47
Mouseyi just wanted more drive space on /!23:47
* Mousey cries23:47
KotCzarnyusb-rescue mode?23:48
hircusthat does sound quite bad23:48
Mouseyhow do i do that?23:48
Mouseyi can fix it if i could mount it23:48
KotCzarnylook for fanoush initfs23:48
hircusdoesn't the FHS require that you can bring up the OS without using /usr? (though not sure I want to try that on my Linux box)23:48
KotCzarnyhircus: watchdog23:48
KotCzarnyie. os boots, but watchdog kills it23:49
hircusKotCzarny: aha.23:49
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Mouseyi see23:49
pupnikit might be safer to link individual directories under /usr/share Mousey23:49
hircusso .. using the flasher to turn off the watchdog would work23:49
Mouseypupnik: one thing at a time =(23:49
KotCzarnyor just move whole os to mmc23:49
Mouseypupnik: thx tho23:49
Mousey...there's a watchdog huh23:49
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hircusI remembered having the watchdog tripping me up. auto-reboots all the time; I sent the device for repair, they could not fix it, and was on the point of issuing me a replacmeent when I figured it out23:50
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hircusMousey: are you using Canola perchance?23:50
jobuanyone get os2008 n800 booting off mmc?23:50
Mouseyhircus: canola2?23:50
hircusI just symlinked Canola's Youtube directory to ..23:50
hircusyes, Canola223:50
KotCzarnycanola2 is very very nice23:50
KotCzarnybut has some bugs still23:50
Mouseyi'm a debian fan23:51
KotCzarnydoes canola devs come to maemo # ?23:51
Mouseyso i'm constantly loading crap on23:51
hircusI symlink the .canola2/youtube/video (or whatever it's called) dir to my MMC card, otherwise it runs out of space23:51
Mouseyand running out of space23:51
Mouseyhircus: that was happening to me23:51
GeneralAntillesMousey, do you have fanoush's initfs installed?23:51
Mouseyno =(23:51
Mouseyam i gonna have a chicken and egg problem?23:51
GeneralAntillesjobu, way back in November. :P23:51
hircusMousey: so symlink that instead. Youtube videos are huge, moving /usr/share won't buy you much time23:52
KotCzarnymousey: nope23:52
hircusfrom a packager's point of view I must say I prefer RPM still23:52
KotCzarnyfanoush initfs is nice23:52
Mouseypacking deb's is a pain23:52
hircusthough -- there was a Debian package-building tool that can be configured with only one spec file, RPM-style23:52
Mouseybut i prefer it over rpm anyday just for apt and the repo system23:52
Mousey(and don't say yum, cuz yuck)23:53
hircusah. well, I'm happy with the rpm/yum combo. multilib is a timesaver, esp. since the last time I used a .Deb-based system, OpenOffice was a 386-only app23:53
hircusmsi :)23:53
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hircusMousey: point taken. yum was slow until one year ago or so23:53
hircushave you tried the SUSE equivalents, though? yikes23:54
Mouseyit's still garbage. you can't simultaneously install and uninstall packages23:54
Mouseyyou have to have separate commands for each23:54
Mouseyand god help you if your rpm DB gets hoarked23:54
hircusMousey: ah. but that's just an interface problem.23:54
hircusoh yes, the db thing is horrid. what does dpkg use as its backend? curious23:54
Mouseyyou know, i'm not really sure23:54
rm_youdpkg can get *&@#ed too, tho23:54
rm_youit's just harder23:54
Mouseygz'd txt files i think23:54
hircusnot sure what RPM uses right now (I could check when I get to my other machine). have not had a corruption issue for ages23:55
KotCzarnytgz ftw!23:55
Mouseyrpm uses berkleydb23:55
lcuk2what update mechanism is the 8x0 gonna have?  is it still .deb based but with some kind of auto updater?23:55
rm_youand if they get corrupted (most common problem for me was running out of disk space and they get written over by 0)23:55
hircusheh. even Sun is moving to a RPM/DEB-style packaging system :)23:55
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hircusnow that Ian Murdock is there23:55
GeneralAntillesIt's not really an apt change23:55
Mouseypackaging systems ftw!23:55
GeneralAntillesIt's mostly a change in how Nokia deploys its update.23:55
rm_youi do love apt23:56
hircusrm_you: one'd think apt will refuse to start the upgrade process if that will take too much space23:56
lcuk2yer i know, but it has automatic updating for user apps as well23:56
rm_youthough emerge/portage is nice too23:56
GeneralAntillesSo, it'll be more like how you update the 3rd party stuff.23:56
GeneralAntillesThe operating-system meta-package will probably end up in User/23:56
rm_youit may23:56
lcuk2is it just a deamon running to check for updates, but it still uses apt or whatever in the background23:56
rm_youbut other things happen23:56
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GeneralAntillesPresumably, lcuk2.23:56
rm_youmostly this happens to me on embedded systems or things running on USB sticks23:56
lcuk2:) does sound reasonable, you cannot rebuild a packaging system and have it "perfect" in a couple of months ;)23:57
rm_youlike the ubuntu updater?23:57
GeneralAntillesKonttori's interview seems to have the best specifics.23:57
rm_you"Sir, we've solved the automatic updates dilemma." "How?!" "We used cron..."23:57
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lcuk2cron? that unreliable pile of pop - i demand 9 9's reliability - hire an intern to monitor the updates23:58
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oobnice lcuk223:58
lcuk2(and make sure shes cute)23:58
rm_youi would actually care about cute less than i'd want her to know WTF she was doing so she didn't break my system... does that say anything about my priorities? >_>23:59

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